April Friendly - Vol. 30

WWW.XZAVIERVSIMON.ORG/MODERNQUEER

April Friendly

A QUEER ACTIVIST FARMER

By: Xzavier V Simon

Photography by: April Friendly

There are milestones with the Modern Queer and I dare say that this is one of them Thus far I have interviewed 30 fucking Black, Hispanic & Asian queer people That shit is crazy to me I am extremely grateful yet pumped up for what comes next It's one of my dreams to travel the world in search of queer stories. Which, funny enough, has led me to Vol. 30's guest, April Friendly.

She is a phenomenal woman having traveled the country and to Zimbabwe Our conversation ranges across a variety of topics We talk about growing up, her relationship with her parents, the 90s, farming, and her love life This is truly a moment where everything came off the top of my head. Why? Because, in my opinion, she lives a very quiet life. I could not find anything about her online. Plus, I'd only met her once in person! [laughs]

Funny enough, I feel in a way we ’ ve come full circle April and I talk about her first experiences with Out Magazine and how there was no representation of Black queer women. And yet, decades later, here she is gracing the cover of a Black queer magazine focused on her and her life. A bit ironic isn’t it? For the moment to even be possible...wow, it feels pretty damn good.

Welcome to Vol 30 of the Modern Queer Magazine

Hello!! Thank you for agreeing to do this. I admit I have no idea what this interview will be about. [laughs] But, I'm open Usually, I do some research beforehand, but I couldn't do that with you. [laughs]

[laughs] I’m sorry. I don’t pop up on Google.

You will be after this. [laughs] I want to start by saying that you seem to be a very private person, yet you agreed to do something very public. Why?

I think it's because of where the invitation came from. You are of a trusted and beloved community from Erica to Dr. P. That is number one why I was even open to it in the first place Also, curious as to what the interest would be in my story I would say I am private, but that's not an intentionality of mine I think that's just kind of been how I've moved I haven't found what I feel is the most appropriate and powerful way to use that platform yet If I'm going to be on there, I want to be saying something

I can understand that. One of the things I’ve strived to do with the Modern Queer was to feature queer women of color across the gender and sexual spectrums. This season, it just so happens that out of six members, four fit that description, and the magnitude of experiences that queer Black women have are powerful. So, please walk me through the beginning. [laughs]

[laughs]

What was the moment where you knew in your spirit that something was different?

I do identify as queer, but that's a new thing I've been a lesbian for the majority of my life At the time when I was discovering sexuality, queer was a bad word LGB, even adding the T, was controversial at that time My first pride parade was still a protest There were no corporate commercial sponsors I'm talking about 91, 92 when I was a sophomore in high school in the south suburbs of Chicago. At this point, we were at the middle to the end of the white flight, and the school was still very white very

conservative It was at a time when there were no rainbow groups, no pride groups

No gay-straight alliances.

None of that. For me, discovery was a big part of my journey. I was always a tomboy, and my femininity wasn't the traditional femininity. That included things that I read and took in. While most teenage girls were reading Vogue or People, I had Sassy Magazine reading about alternative [lifestyles] but mostly [about] white girls. In the middle of the magazine, they had these little postcards. In this one, they announced this new culture magazine that's coming out about alternative lifestyles, and to receive the first three copies, fill out this postcard It'll come to your house in a discreet package, and I'm like, what is this? Yes, yes, yes

That sounds exciting.

It was Out Magazine

No way!

Four to six weeks later, it was the magazine but wrapped completely in blue or black paper. The only thing that was cut out was my name and address. I ran to my room, shut the door, and went under the covers to check out this magazine.

That is like the cutest story ever.

At that time, it opened my world to even the language of gay and lesbian. The photography was big in there. It was mostly white guys, but the stories they were telling are what I recall most, how folks who love folks of the same sex are legally discriminated against in their housing and at their job It's just not safe, and there's always policies and literal laws that block people who love same-sex folks from living their lives

Yes, and to this day, we’re still causing hell about our humanity and rights I’m trying to recall when I first heard the word gay. I identified as bisexual in 7th grade when I was 11 years old. So, I must’ve known about it about 9.

At the time when I was discovering sexuality, queer was a bad word. LGB, even adding the T, was controversial at that time.

"My dad hovers over me like, ‘what’s the matter with you? Are you gay or something?’ In that moment, I realized, oh shit, it’s just not safe out there, it’s not going to be safe in here."

Internal justice and safety...

I’m reading through the issues, and then the family is going on a road trip from Chicago to Youngstown, Ohio, where I call my hometown. I’m in the car with my family, parents in the front, I’m in the back with my little sister who’s sleeping. You know the most interesting thing to hear about is with the parents are talking about.

Naturally. [laughs]

My parents were both in corporate America, and this is the early nineties. Not a lot of Black folks in corporate America or at least in the fields they were in. My dad was talking about how maybe we should move to Georgia. My parents were going back and forth, and I said, ‘we can’t move to Atlanta because it’s legal to discriminate against gays and lesbians in Georgia ’

And I’m done!

Then I’m like, ‘we can’t go to Cracker Barrel after church cause it’s legal to discriminate against lesbians

They fired this lady, and she was the head chef for years ’

And what happened?

Silence, no response.

Damn.

We arrived at grandma’s house, standing in the kitchen. My dad hovers over me like, ‘what’s the matter with you? Are you gay or something?’ In that moment, I realized, oh shit, it’s just not safe out there, it’s not going to be safe in here.

Yes, you can pick up those cues extremely quick.

Right I don’t say anything else A week or two later, I’m in the mall with my mom going down the escalator, and my mom says in a real soft voice, ‘April, are you gay?’ I didn’t know how to respond Like, is it safe? Am I gonna get beat down on the floor? [laughs] I got Black mama now, and we in the suburbs, but [laughs]

[laughs] Those kinda situations have you thinking this is a setup. Those trick questions that have your brain firing off your fight or flight responses. Did you say anything at all?

I didn’t say anything Once we got onto the floor before we hit the whole mall, she stopped and asked me again, face to face I just said, I don't know, but I know what I feel. I feel the feelings I have for girls are feelings that I don't have for boys. What I learned about makes sense to me and I think I might be.

Wow.

Literally Xzavier that was on the weekend. My mom went to work, came back, and said, ‘I talked to some of my people, April it’s not going to be easy it’s not an easy lifestyle. Are you sure?’ I was like, mom, this is who I am. She said, ‘well, I found a youth group on the north side of the city, and if you want to go, I’ll take you next weekend.’

Wow!

Horizons had a community center for gay and lesbian youth that has now morphed into Center on Halsted It's like the central community center for gay folks now It started off as Horizons where they had Saturday afternoons, Wednesday evenings they had teen youth drop-ins. I met gay and trans kids from around the city.

Whoa! I need to bask in that because there's so much. You were in high school when all of this started. Let's start with that moment of you receiving Out Magazine. Your experiences were in the early 90s, while mines were in the early 00s. For me, it was watching a show on MTV late-night called Undressed. Then seeing small bits and pieces of the queerness on DeGrassi, and VH1 exploring Queer As Folk was huge for me. I think I was a senior in high school when I found The Gay Times. But, you got this magazine, ran upstairs, jumped under the covers, and absorbed that. How did you feel, and how were you processing this new treasure trove of experiences?

It's a good question I'm not even sure how to

answer that I'll say that I shared the magazine with my friend Simone I stepped back, like, ‘are we still, okay?’ She was like, ‘okay, what?’ A lot of the pictures were dudes at the beach or scantily dressed She didn't have any kind of reactions, but I was still very nervous I observed it like, I'm learning some stuff This is still taboo You gotta keep it under wraps until you're around other people who are of this community too. But then where is this community at?

Funny how that taboo mentally existed well in the 00s. But you’re right. You recognize this feeling, but where is the community? [laughs] You don’t know you belong to the community until you realize you’re a part of it. Then you go and try to find it.

And then, as a Black woman, or a black girl at that time, there were no black girls, no black women in this magazine.

Unheard of at the time.

It was cool, but it still wasn't necessarily me I didn't see any representation So it was like, I'm discovering something, and there's a whole other world of folk and ways to be out there, but where's my tribe?

Going into the conversation with your parents, you knew that this was taboo something very deviant, especially when we think about the church yet you summoned the courage to say to your Black parents that we ain't going to Cracker Barrel. Y'all can stop that. [laughs] Black parents will reach back and smack the taste out of your mouth.

Where does that come from? Honestly, I'm not sure how to answer that either. I still didn't fully identify at that time. I was learning this stuff and I just thought that was wrong. It doesn't make no sense.

There was a strong sense of internal justice.

Yes I remember the written stories and incidents that happened of people losing their homes and or the white lady losing her job

So yesterday and all the nine years before that, it was cool, and you just didn't know it I think that's like a consistent thread throughout my life Maybe it's hinted at me being a community organizer now [laughs]

I must wonder about your parents at that moment, specifically your mom. For your mother to say that and take that extra step to accept you and find an avenue for you to explore speaks volumes about who she was or who she is. You could have been kicked out or disowned. I think about my bestfriend, and I watched POSE recently. In the very first episode, they throw my man outta the house.

Xzavier, my mom, is kind of like my hero. My dad was not so warm and welcoming. He felt like it was a problem, and it was his fault. Like he shouldn't have let me play so many sports and hang out with him so much and be that tomboy. He thought he had messed up. That's how he took it on, and that's how he expressed it He was not very accepting of any of my new friends or any of that We talked about it later in life, and he was like, 'yeah, I was supportive You couldn't have gone had I not given my approval '

That’s quite a difference between parents.

My mom was like my hero. Not only did she say if you want to go, I’ll take you, but that Saturday, I will never forget this. I changed outfits about two or three times. It was about an hour to get up there. We got in the minivan. My mom said, ‘I’m taking you, and I’m going to go in.’ Remember, I’m a teenager, and I’m in my second year of high school by this time. She came in and had already talked to the counselors on the phone ahead of time because she needed to get the setup.

Your mom was on it!

She came with her Stephen King book, and after she was done with the counselors, she stayed right on the little waiting room couch I go outside, I come back in, and a line of kids were telling my mom stories about how they had gotten kicked out They had to lie, say they were at the library, and asking her how to talk to their

parents and get some support

That's deep.

After the session, the kids said we normally go over to the rocks It’s been privatized now The powers that be didn’t want us to have too much That was where the gay folk hung out Literally on the lake, painted with all the little symbols. Kids still wanted to talk to my mom, and she took us to the rocks. While some of us hung out and talked at the rocks, other folks talked to my mom.

Little did your mom even know what she was about to get herself into. Not only was she your mother, but she became everybody's mother. Which in some weird way, isn't that like a testament to Black women?

You know, I heard the arguments. She can't stay here, things like that. And my mom's like, ‘my baby is not going anywhere.’

Were there some growing pains with your mother through all of this and did your father ever shift his opinion?

There were growing pains to go through, but none of them were around my sexuality There was stuff to figure out the period of who’s a friend and who’s a girlfriend. Friends spend the night, and it’s like wait, but who is she? [laughs] And I probably wasn’t the most honest child. [laughs]

We know! [laughs] There’s nothing to explain. We already know.

No mom we just real cool. It’s storming too hard she can't go home tonight. All the way to the city? No, we can't. It's dark outside.

[laughs] I’m dead.

I mean, she used to have straight conversations with me I had a girlfriend who played me, and I'm all distraught 'Girl, get over it, you 17 that ain't forever ' [laughs] My dad, on the other hand, his resistance to accepting that I am still a growing person and I'm also discovering my

The Underground

Then the gay youth scene where we can't go into clubs, the underground, was serious It was the underground underground

sexuality, all those things got conflated.

It sounds like he internalized it.

At first, he was just very rude to everyone That brought a lot of tension and contention to our relationship At that time, we were like we're teenagers, and there's already underground stuff for the gay scene anyway Then the gay youth scene where we can't go into clubs, the underground, was serious It was the underground underground Some of that shit was just cool as heck! [laughs] Taking over bowling alleys after hours and taking up office space on off days.

[laughs] When I was first discovering the scene in Flint, it blew my mind. I had no idea that there was this underbelly of people who were doing all kinda stuff. It expanded when I met my first boyfriend. I drove to Lansing, and we were delinquents at least I felt like one. [laughs] I was drawn to this world, especially after having this clean-cut image for most of my life. What was the scene like for you?

Oh, my goodness [laughs] It was so much fun By this time, I have a partner in crime, my best friend, who was also my last and probably most serious boyfriend He was also very pivotal in helping me to discover myself

[laughs]

It was very interesting after we stopped officially dating. People were like, how are the gay boy and the gay girl together? We were best friends, and we used to just hang out. He was deep in the choir. So, I discovered that scene and hung out with the choir kids and then the theater kids. I remember we used to sit out when they took breaks from rehearsals, and we'd have conversations. I'd be like, 'if I were a boy, I want to kiss her.' And then he was like, 'you don't have to start it with if I was a boy.' [laughs] Wait a minute. Huh?

Well, hey! [laughs]

Remember in Out, there weren’t Black women in it There was no erotica It was more political stuff When I say the underground, there were office spaces where people worked during the day

However, I don’t know who connected it, but this was going to be the hangout in the evening Then we got a guy who was a nurse Now we spending the night and lying [laughs] By the time I was a junior, I had a fake ID We going to the club

Oh, I should've been in Chicago.

[laughs] The house scene and dancing all night long.

Oh, I knew that it had to just be a ball pun intended.

I never got to engage in a whole full-out ballroom scene, but I know I was with ball folk. It was undercover underground, you know. It was as if we were in a secret society.

But in a way, y’all were. Thinking timelines, again, we are still in the early to mid-90s. That era was different. There wasn’t a lot of that going on that could be visibly seen. For me, being born in 1990 and growing up in the 90s, I feel like the country was trying to be a salad or that melting pot—that multiculturalism before we started calling it diversity. Being gay wasn’t mainstream or very present in society. It was a taboo conversation, particularly in the Black community, and much of that is still valid. Queer folk made and still do make familiar bonds with those they meet and encounter. But what you describe sounds fun as hell, though. [laughs]

laughs] Yeah. We protected one another. I think about the first trans folk I met. It was interesting because we didn't use that language so much. It was like the unspoken truth. So yeah, we going to kick it and have fun, and can't nobody come in here. At the time it was most of the trans youth that I met were Latino or Black. Even where we were, it was predominantly white, like the area on the north side now called Boystown. So even protecting our folks from the white gay boys was a real reality You know, it wasn't even safe for us to all come out during the pride parade When I first started going to pride, it still was a protest Now you got the mayor and American airlines and

All these clothing, shoe stores. It has become very consumerism. In a huge way, it’s been coopted.

Definitely co-opted

Because, as inclusive as it is, it is just as much as it's not. The visibility for queer people of color still has a long way to go. There is colorism and racism within the queer community with white-only gay clubs, places, cruises, and neighborhoods.

And even still to a degree to this day. Before COVID started, one of my nurses’ partners was going out a beautiful, successful Black businessman on a Friday night at the club. White dude tryna get to the bathroom, saying he’s taking too long, and accusing him of doing this and that in there. By the time he came out the bathroom, the white man had already said to security, whatever he had said, the police came guns blazing, handcuffed my man, carried him out the club He happened to be with a white girl who started screaming and doing the Becky, and that’s what had them look at the cameras

Wow.

In Boystown They would list these areas as being safe for us, but, no, it was not.

Talking with the women of Season 04, there are many nuances to the experience of being Black, a woman, and queer. I think of Myla and her path of understanding herself and living her truth, Jo and her fight for sexual liberation, and Jada about being a woman rap artist and a mother. For you, what are these layers that you face?

Let me give you context. I came out in the period that I did. Culturally, we were kind of masquerading around in the daytime as straight women There was no safety or the comfort to go out and be butch, a boy, or be a stud publicly So I left Chicago, I go away to school in Pittsburgh, then I lived in Ohio I leave the country, and then I'm in Massachusetts By the time I came back to Chicago, and all the while traveling, I'm still a

WHAT HAPPENED TO JUST BEING A LESBIAN?

lesbian, but I'm not a part of the active community.

I can understand that having left the scene to focus on school, having several out-of-the-loop boyfriends, and traveling myself. That and my hobbies and interest didn’t seem to fit well with other people. You don’t quite feel a part of the culture.

By the time I come back, one of the first events I go to is Pride in the early ’00s I remember going to the beach where the Black folks hung out It was like everybody was kind of paired up You were a stud or a femme Here I am, and I ain’t got no lipstick on, my walk ain’t quite tough enough, so I felt I did not fit in I will never forget this cause it was the whole park Xzavier. It was like, ‘the whole park!?’ Like everybody here is on one side of the other.

That’s gotta be almost like a culture shock.

What happened to just being a lesbian? I’m a woman who likes women. Also, maintaining the ownership of my femininity was real for me all while I was growing up. That was one of the things my mom used to say. ‘Don’t you want to be a little more feminine?’ My first response, which was still like, my last response is, but I am a female, so isn’t everything I do feminine?

When I heard about you through Erica, even when I finally met you before y'all left, it wasn't something you necessarily led with. You were just you. You were open, inviting, and full of love. [laughs] It was a very natural thing. I feel the conversations center around whether we need to lead with our queerness or anything at all. But even just having this conversation, I feel like we've known each other for a long time, and I appreciate that openness. And yet, you move into community organizing, activism, gardening, and farming. [laughs] What spurred you into activism and organizing, and then how did you get into farming?

Community Supported Agriculture

"I went to Zimbabwe to the rural areas, and I worked with farmers to see how agriculture was a part of life. But let me tell you this, Xzavier, nobody was starving. Wasn't nobody hungry because everybody knew how to grow their own food. And in the rural areas, nobody was out without a house cause also there's land, and you can build something."

It was a process as I m trying to get back to the farm right now I discovered farming and gardening first We’ll go back So now, end of the nineties, I've tried college, and it's like, this is not for me Then I signed up to participate in an alternative to the Peace Corps program We lived on a commune in Berkshire Mountains, Massachusetts, with a whole bunch of white folks

[laughs] Very hippy

In the mountains, there are a lot of farmers and a farm nearby. So, I started hanging out with those folks. Also, I'm in this commune, and I'm going to do this alternative Peace Corps program where I'm going to go to Zimbabwe and talk to the people about better farming practices. It took a little while in my training to be like, 'man, how am I gonna teach people who agriculture is their whole life? How I'm going to teach them some better farming practices, and I'm training over here in the States.' That don't make no sense.

It does not.

I d never been on a farm, and I m going to be working with farmers So, I went to go hang out on farms, but it was an apprenticeship They were teaching young farmers my age, and I’m like, okay, this is all right They’re like, you can come to visit anytime I came back tomorrow, and this is a farm that also had a CSA Community Supported Agriculture

And the definition is as such: Community Supported Agriculture consists of a community of individuals who pledge support to a farm operation so that the farmland becomes, either legally or spiritually, the community's farm, with the growers and consumers providing mutual support and sharing the risks and benefits of food production.

I went to Zimbabwe to the rural areas, and I worked with farmers to see how agriculture was a part of life So, I'm in the rural areas where we would say these folk are cash poor. But let me tell you this, Xzavier, nobody was starving. Wasn't nobody hungry because everybody knew how to grow their own food. And in the rural areas, nobody was out without a house cause also there's land, and you can build something.

Community Organizer

"I will say that community organizing and community activism, the way that I have learned it, this methodology was designed by a white man, Saul Alinsky. This methodology is a function of the system as it exists. I can read through the lines a bit more and decipher, oh, that's not on the mandated funder list. Like they didn't approve that. So, we can't even though that's something that would directly impact the community. Oh, so it's not actually about the community."

Talk about wealth and access.

It was a whole new lifestyle that my world was opened to It was kinda, I guess, simple, but very natural and connected to the Earth Imagine how your energy is flowing, how your mind is flowing, how you create and feel free in a different space My tutor was a 10-yearold boy who did not own one book but could speak and write in 10 languages and had penmanship almost better than mine We studied over a lantern in his grandma’s room with dirt floors. This little boy was brilliant, and he wasn’t an exception.

Something about that feels very grounding.

It was just like a whole nother way to be, and everything was so connected to the Earth. Hanging out and playing in mango trees. [laughs] And also eating fresh…yo! Oh, you want some chicken tonight. Okay. Let’s go down to the farm, which one you want? Boom, it’s on your plate for the night. It was harder for me to adjust coming back to the States than going away.

I think anyone would when they’ve had a moment to let go, be free, and connect.

I got into the natural organic retail work in a small coop and working at Whole Foods I believed the hype that they cared about the communities and the environment And then I started working my way up, got into middle management, and I'm on track to get my own store But, I kept getting passed over I was very disgruntled, very frustrated, and didn't know how to handle it. And then I was introduced to somebody who was community organizing.

And we’ve come full circle.

Yes, and I'm like, what is that? They invited me to an event. Sign me up. Check, check, check. I go to this intensive organizer week training out in the woods. I came out the next week, and I went back to work, cursed my boss out, his boss out. My only thing is I was a little naive. They fired me about two weeks later. [laughs] And two weeks after that, I started organizing. [laughs]

ALONG THE FARMLAND

[laughs] Black people funny as hell. We get to a certain point where we learn some new shit and apply it immediately. [laughs] Explain what you love about community organizing and what it is that you specifically do within this arena.

I'm not sure how to answer that. Part of me does feel like I'm doing some good. We're almost going on ten years now. I will say that community organizing and community activism, the way that I have learned it, this methodology was designed by a white man, Saul Alinsky. This methodology is a function of the system as it exists. I can read through the lines a bit more and decipher, oh, that's not on the mandated funder list. Like they didn't approve that. So, we can't even though that's something that would directly impact the community. Oh, so it's not actually about the community.

Performative activism.

That again is like motivation to get to my damn farm. [laughs] What I will say, though, I could not have explained how this whole nonprofit industrial complex works had I not been immersed in it. Given my role now, I have the title of Senior Organizer. I lead some coalition work, work on the county level, and campaigns on the statewide and national levels This job has afforded me a deeper understanding of the larger systems this larger system of hegemony There's no one reform, no nothing, that's gonna fix it All of these things that don't work in our favor are part of this huge web They're all interconnected

It’s funny because that’s what I mean in the aspect of me getting into me trouble here in the city. A friend of mine said good intentions don’t always mean good results, and I find that true. Like the lawmakers, I don’t want to be in business and be in cahoots with the same people who I know are bulldozing the north end of Flint and complicit in the status quo.

You’re in a position where you can do that. I sometimes understand when people are in positions where they feel like they can’t. I understand but fundamentally, as grandma says, ‘you lay down with dogs, you bound to get some fleas.’

[laughs] What grandmas be saying is real when you put them in a particular context.

There are even some words that were just downplayed. Now I understand the importance of growing your own food In the projects, my grandma had a little garden in the front growing tomatoes, beans and peppers

ALONG THE GARDEN

Sounds like my grandma. [laughs]

As she got older and I took her grocery shopping and stuff, she loved tomatoes, and we would be on the search. 'These tomatoes don't taste like nothing.' Now I understand how the grocery industry works. And oh, my goodness, tomatoes are supposed to be full of flavor. The family was poor, but we always had watermelon, and how we shared resources. It was almost like we created this whole thing where we looked down upon ways to be self-sufficient because it wasn’t advertised on the TV or something like that. But, no, that’s not how the Cosby’s did it. Now this doctor, this lawyer, this cop, these are the models?

The process of getting away from oneself is real, and it can come subversively. You think you doing something, but when you look up, you like, oh shit. [laughs]

[laughs]

But, I want to end with this because I think it's so beautiful. You did kidnap one of my good friends after all. You stole her. [laughs]

[laughs]

We had plans to blow up the university! [laughs] But I want to end with talking about this incredible relationship that you are in. I want to highlight it not only in the light of needing more representation of Black love, even though we do, especially Black queer love, which we do.

True

I want to focus on how y'all elevate each other. You're together, but you're still your separate individuals that have conjoined to co-create an experience or experiences. And I think that's something that we say we want, but we don't necessarily understand what that entails or what that looks like, especially with both of you deciding together to be farmers and live off the land. What are you learning about yourself?

One of the big things that I'm learning about myself is the importance of communication. I know I've heard that before, but I feel like I'm discovering it newly. Not only the importance of communication but also how I communicate. I'm learning how also about how I've been resistant to learn about myself.

I think a lot of us can relate to that. [laughs]

" I C O U L D N ’ T H A V E M E T

E R I C A . W E W O U L D N O T

H A V E T H E S A M E

R E L A T I O N S H I P H A D W E

M E T T E N Y E A R S A G O . S O ,

I ’ M I N A P L A C E W H E R E I ’ M

R E A D Y T O B E I N A T R U E

P A R T N E R S H I P . "

PARTNE RSHIP

The ability and willingness to let go of ego. It’s taken me years to get to the point where I can be open to that. I’m here now. I couldn’t have met Erica. We would not have the same relationship had we met ten years ago. So, I’m in a place where I’m ready to be in a true partnership.

That shit sounds good to say.

My whole life is not centered around that either. There were relationships where it was like, I got to do whatever you do We got to be around each other 24/7 And then I forget who I am or what I’m doing, or even what my agenda was I matured to where I can recognize it now or if it’s called out like, oh, okay Or even when I am an ass, I hear it newly now So yeah, that communication and all the different degrees of communication are huge in our relationship That’s my favorite part and, at times, the most challenging

That's dope that you're able to see and recognize those things.

We met online and when you started this with I have almost a non-existent online life So, imagine the profile that I put up, Xzavier! I didn't use any name, and you hardly see my face It was crazy

You was real incognegro.

It was amazing that we found each other. I’m scrolling on a lesbian app, and you know, swipe to the left, swipe to the left. It was just swipe, swipe, swipe. It’s also interesting like I’m going to judge whether or not I want to have a conversation with you based on how you look, but that’s what we are working with. I wasn’t taking it too seriously. You got super dressed up, jazzy girls. Girls doing the stuff with the emojis, butterflies flying around the head, like what the hell is that I’m grown woman.

Stop!! [laughs]

[laughs] The girls were having the titties out and all of that Like, no Then I flip, and then there's this lady in there and a full-body beekeeping suit

Oh my god. [laughs]

I was like, she a beekeeper! Oh my God, that is so cool That is so dope! Wait, she is living outside of Detroit. A beekeeper from the Detroit area, yo, who is that? I got to have a conversation at least. She doing something. This is somebody who's thinking on a level that is immediately interesting to me.

The rest is history? [laughs]

[laughs] Even starting the dialogue long distance, it began with conversation and conversation. Then it was like, I want to talk to you every day, and I want to share, and you're listening. You remember the things I talked about yesterday and the day before it.

That’s so cute.

That was cool, and there was no drama and not from the scene Being able to date someone who also hasn’t gone around all the circles was nice

No, it’s nice. It’s nice. [laughs]

From personal experience, it is nice. [laughs] In my case, it’s the opposite as it’s me who hasn’t gone around all the circles. [laughs]

I've been talking to people, you say something and then next thing you know, somebody else and somebody else, and then you're getting a phone call. But COVID happened, and it was like, yeah, you think we can do this together? And she didn't kick me out. I came from Chicago to Flint for a whole year and some months, in her house that she had established. She made space for me, and that space fit, and she didn't kick me out. [laughs]

laughs] That's when you know it's real.

Imagine now we're in quarantine, and I'm in a city that is new to me That was an intense year To be able to be comfortable like that was a beautiful thing I felt safe, and I pray, and hope Erica feels safe with me There's just like all this room to continue to grow together, share, and experience Because you know that safety thing, that's a big deal

Shit don’t I know it. [laughs] I feel safe with very few people in my life.

Whether it's physical or is it okay for me to leave your phone unlocked. Or leave your checkbook out.

Leave a sock on the floor. [laughs]

To the emotional safe. You're not trying to cut me up or cut me down every chance feeling safe. Safety is huge.

It's critical. It's crucial.

We plan on continuing to do big and great things

Listen, cause Xandr and I, we coming to get the scope when y'all get to North Carolina. We coming to get the farmer life scoop. We will be

there. It's going down like, ‘yo, I know some Black women farmers. Look at this black excellence.’

That’s what’s up And the exploration too The real intention of North Carolina The farm space and the space to create Like what are other models of community safety that don't include guns a blazing or profiteering and exploitation. How do we expand the world of mutual aid?

Normalizing this sort of train of thought. Getting back to the roots of where we come from and who we are as a nation of people.

Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. So going back to grandma one more time as we close this out. [laughs] We in the projects and so we're poor, but as a kid, I didn't know what that meant. There was someplace safe. It felt really good to know that I can go down to the neighbor's house if grandma had to go somewhere, cause they got a grandma who's at home all the time too

The association of grandmas.

They are necessary You know, we ran out of toilet paper, so you go get a roll or a cup of sugar literally

That's my grandma with the peach cobbler.

There was a sense of community. First of all, you had to know who those people were, and I will tell you what: I do not feel uncomfortable walking across the street or next door. I would not do that today. I don't have that sense that we're in this together. There's not a collective community feeling or collective.

Well, we go back to that safety that you were talking about. There's not that sense of safety, that internal safety. In one sense, it could be there. You could feel safe and that could manifest itself, but the doubt, uncertainty, and fear prevent that.

Yeah, you're right Maybe I can go next door and they be like, okay, but I don't know

You can’t take that chance. [laughs]

[laughs] That safety again I feel comfortable taking chances with Erica That space has been created, established, and we continue to work on that I’m excited and really love her

Yeah. This turned out better than I thought. Yeah, I’m fulfilled.

[laughs]

Thank you so much, again. I laughed so hard and learned so much. We really do all share a collective experience in so many ways. You got a good ass funny story. Thank you.

Awesome. Well, thank you. I'm honored to be here and blessed to have been invited.

"I feel comfortable taking chances with Erica. That space has been created, established, and we continue to work on that. I’m excited and really love her."