EDITOR-IN-CHIEF VOL. XIV
Facebook/Instagram: @xzaviervsimon
Website: www.themodernqueer.com
Instagram: @N.E.I.L.K.
Twitter: @Neil Kagerer
Website:
Biracial experinces are on diaplay.
Here we are at Vol. 14 and in the final stretch of Season 02. Have you all been enjoying the stories thus far? We talked about the dark side of the soul, staying true to self, queer feminine dynamics, speaking truth, and teenage queer identity Even with all of that, I feel like I still haven't covered enough
If the last volume was our introduction into Asian queer identity, then this is our introduction in biracial queer identity. Vol. 14's feature is mixed with European and Mexican genetics It makes for a interesting dynamic in his life
With this conversation, I wanted to touch majorly on his biracial origins and how it mixes with his sexual identity. Needless to say, I got that and a whole lot more.
Please enjoy Vol. 14
XZAVIER V. SIMON Editor-In-ChiefWhen I first saw Neil, because I saw him before I actually met him, I couldn't help but notice this stern look on his face. Of course he's very handsome, but they way he looked gave me the impression that he wasn't about the bullshit, and all about the business. Another thing, he has that je ne sais quoi. I believe you'll recognize it when as your read our conversation and view his photos.
Our conversation is interesting. I joked and nicknamed Neil, "The Face," on the count of his photos portraying his model-like appearance. That is simply the surface. Situated behind his face, and his smile is a 21-year-old is discovering who he is across racial, sexual, political, and spiritual boundaries. In a sort of kinship, when I was 21, can also attest to the push to discover and redefine self.
What I appreciate about this interview is that I know and felt there was more happening than what was said. Neil remained present and did not shy away from answering. Critical themes that are at play: family dynamics, and surprisingly, the nature of his blossoming relationship, which I'm sure is going to make plenty of people green with envy.
In any case, the Modern Queer presents Vol. 14: Neil Kagerer.
We just met for the first time on a whim! Before this all started, I didn't expect y’all to be this young. [laughs] Tell us: who are you? Where did you grow up? How was your childhood?
My name is Neil I'm 21, and I am gay I grew up in the Flint area around [the University of Michigan area] Then I moved to toward the Kearsley School District My biological father and my mother were not together. When I was born I would be back and forth visiting him I have a big family It’s about six in the house
I grew up in a house with 3 brothers. I can only imagine having two more siblings.
I'm the youngest of everybody. I have a twin sister that doesn't look anything like me. [She’s] blonde hair, blue eyes.
Science and DNA is a thing my word.
The nose is kind of what tells it, but that's about it I love nature As a kid, I was always in my backyard doing stuff, playing sports with the neighbor kids. I don't like sports anymore.
Yeah, neither do I. Well, I discovered two years ago that I love throwing a football. But I love watching sports. [laughs]
I do too [laughs] I know what you mean I know exactly what you mean
"Beingincollege,I've beenableto understand mycomplexitiesasa personalittlebitmore. Beingacis-gendered male,IknowIhave privilege."
Off jump I want to get into the topic of your racial ambiguity. Then I wanna move into how that plays into your sexuality and gender.
First off, being in college, I've been able to understand my complexities as a person a little bit more Being a cis-gendered male, I know I have privilege
And for those that don’t know, cis-gender means you identify as and with your assigned gender at birth.
Being biracial, it's like that one drop rule, right? Sometimes I feel like I can go to a space with people of color and feel comfortable I feel like I can go into a space with white people and feel comfortable depending on the conversation Other times it's like, am I good enough? That's a struggle sometimes I don't get all the experience because there are white people that treat me like I'm just white There are people of color that treat me like I'm just white, you know? It's kind of this tug and pull
I can relate from a different standpoint. When I was growing up, I could move as a Black person because of my skin color, but my mannerisms and what not allowed me to
sort of move in white spaces because I was safe. All the while I felt like I didn’t belong in either.
I do find some privilege in being biracial though I feel like I can be in both spaces and provide understanding In the world today, you don't see many white people really understanding and listening to a person of color It might be better to say [I’m] a middleman Like, they think I'm a person of color, but not so much so that like they can understand and listen
As bad as this sounds, it’s like making them comfortable, or as I kind of alluded to, you're nonthreatening.
I'm not here to necessarily make anybody comfortable But I think a point to understanding each other is that being uncomfortable leads you to be comfortable That's why I hold my boyfriend's hand out in public That's why I do certain things cause eventually I'm going to have to be comfortable
So, dealing with you means people are gonna have to get uncomfortable huh?
100% I am still exploring being biracial and exploring my ethnicity You know, my dad's white, and my mom ' s Mexican Just exploring where I'm from and where my families are from and those things For me, I'm connected with family members, but I don't know all of them I know I'm German, Native American and those things, but I'd like to know a little bit more [about my] origins and ancestry
Did you grow up with family members that spoke Spanish as a primary language?
No My mom is biracial as well
That’s mighty interesting.
My grandma is white, and granddad is Mexican, and he left when [my mom] was born My dad, he had three kids My sister and my oldest brother, Nathan, they look white They're very white passing I look a little more tan [laughs]
You do. [laughs] I must talking to another black sheep of the family!
Then my brother Joe, he has a different dad His dad's Mexican so he looks ethnically Mexican It's very interesting I'm around a lot of different family and we don't all look the same
I can see how this can create a very conflicting and maybe even hierarchical dynamic.
My grandma is from the south, and she moved to Michigan My mom would be with her down south and the family was racist.
My mother told me that we were at a family party or something and we kids were touching the cooler You know, kids playing around One of the wives’ husbands was like, ‘get those kids out of that cooler ’ My mom was like okay cause she thought we were just playing around He's like ‘ no they're contaminating the cooler ’
Jeez in the family though?!
She was like, ‘what do you mean?’ And he's like, ‘because they're brown, they're contaminated ’ Damn!
She obviously ripped him a new one but none of the family backed her up right So, she ended up packing up everything It's interesting to talk about race with family too They all have different experiences, right? If you ' re white passing
You tend to lean more towards identifying with white standards and ideals.
And you are whitewashed in a sense, right? If you don't grow up in that culture, like Hispanic culture, which I didn't grow up in I didn't have many family members, cause my mom ' s dad left, then I can't experience that. I'm very whitewashed in a sense.
We all are. We live in America after all. Moving from race and family history to sexual identity, what was and when was the moment you knew?
I don't think there was one specific moment when I knew I think it was this kind of slow realization that I like the same sex, you know? It's never something right in the moment like, oh crap Also, assumptions were made too I think the first time anybody ever asked if I was straight, I didn't even know what they meant I thought they meant like the silhouette of my body! [laughs]
Right! Because how do we even know what these things mean?
I said no, because obviously not, but foreshadowing something, I guess But no, I don't think there was really a specific moment You know, I could say something cliché like walking through the underwear aisle at like Walmart or something [laughs]
And looking at the pictures of the guys junk on the packaging. [laughs]
Yeah [laughs]
That would be extremely cliché but totally believable. I mean back in the day before I knew what sex was, I used to eye hump women in my mom’s catalogues that came in the mail. [laughs]
I mean I hung out with a lot of the neighbor kids too, so I had an interaction with the same sex a lot of the times You know guys play sports together and whatever But no, there was no real specific time
How was the coming out moment for you?
"What do we see as a masculine man? Big, strong, hairy, white, and deep voiced, if they're heterosexual. I mean, even if they're homosexual, it’s still that sort of characteristic, right?"
I did the Coming Out Monologues for the Center for Gender and Sexuality (CGS), and I did short little stories I think it's not just one coming out moment It's significant experiences
Yes. There’s a whole list of moments and each one can look different than the other.
I would say, my first boyfriend ever, I was closeted, but he wasn't He was a little older than me and it didn't work out He ended up telling a couple of people so I decided that I'm just going to tell some people I had a best friend at the time, and everybody wanted us to date each other and wanted me to take her to homecoming. I was like, I don't really want to do that. [laughs]
[laughs] I know exactly what you’re talking about.
My siblings kept on harping me about it Finally, I’m
like, because I'm gay and they cried.
Say what!?
They were like, ‘did we make you gay for making fun of you?’ I was like, that's not really how that works [laughs] It doesn't help any, but that's not how it works
Talk about a scene from a movie.
I told my siblings and then like many millennials do, I came out publicly on Instagram There was a lot of assumptions being made in high school already. I did something cliché like: 'Hey, Hey, Hey, guess what? I'm gay. ' I got a lot of positive feedback which I'm thankful for.
Was it a 'we were all waiting' kind of thing?
It was like people were placing their bets and as soon as I said it they were handing money back and forth. [laughs]
You get those people that would walk up and be like, I knew that already. I'm like, want to cookie? [laughs] I ended up telling the rest of my family on Father's Day.
Any particular reason you chose that day? [laughs]
I wanted to remember it.
I feel this is another one of those, ‘fuck it’ moments I keep being told about.
I was like, today's the perfect day I'll do it. I pulled my mom out into the van and I sat there with her. I was like, ‘hey, I got to tell you something. You know, I like boys.’ She was like, ‘oh my gosh I thought you ' re going to tell me you were on drugs.’
[laughs] Gotta love moms.
I was like well no, but I thought it was going to be a completely different reaction than what it was. She was good. My oldest brother, him and I have a joking relationship. It was like 'Nathan, I'm gay. ' He's like, ‘oh I'm gay too, hahaha.’ And I'm like, ' no, I really like guys ' My stepfather, he is a quiet dude When he speaks though, you ' re like okay I'll listen I told him, and he sat there and was like, okay
It seems like it was a smooth couple of moments.
Yeah, that was smooth I think my biological dad, it was a little less smooth just because of the position of him not being to much a part of my life It's like, it doesn't really matter I'm not there with him daily for it to affect me so I don’t let it
I did not tell my father before he passed away. We were both mad at each other, and I believe I was afraid of what his reaction might’ve been.
I’ve forgiven my father because I don't care to carry any hate or anything
He was all up in arms about it because it wasn't anything masculine or whatever. I had to do sports. It was sort of those things. But, I also knew like I had to be myself. I was in a decent situation to feel comfortable at least with some of my family members to do that.
How has your experiences been in the community and across the social media sphere?
I think mine has been relatively positive. Just cause I think I portray some kind of confidence with who I am You do.
I think because of my circumstances, but also because I have accepted my sexuality It's another level and I'm [confident] in myself.
Was it a struggle to come to that moment of acceptance? I know religion, societal stigma, family trauma and things like that play a part in creating narratives.
I don't necessarily think religion came in it for me. My mom was a very young mother and the stigma of her being a young mom in church kind of led her to back away I would say gender norms, being masculine and that stuff that had an effect
What happened there?
At home, like in middle school, I took a sewing class and a yoga thing. I came home and I told my previous stepfather about it
This thing around masculinity. I find gay men are in several paradoxes. The first would be this. Growing up, I saw two archetypes of gay men: white and feminine or white and physically fit. Very binary. I didn’t see a Black gay man until Karamo Brown appeared on the Real World.
I think the white twink is like that in the community. Like that's one of the things that you live up to be or whatnot.
Or the super hunk. [laughs]
It's just like that in the case of masculinity. Like, what do we see as a masculine man? Big, strong, hairy, white, and deep voiced, if they're heterosexual. I mean, even if they're homosexual, it’s still that sort of characteristic, right?
For sure.
Regarding myself, I hated that sort of look I knew that I would never be that But when it comes to like the white twink, I think because I am biracial, I do fit into that kind of category I'm skinny, you know, that sort of thing and people favored me because I have a drop of color That was like the token sort of thing
"
Y O U B E I N G
Y O U R S E L F
P R O M O T E S
C H A N G E , R I G H T ?
L I K E A N Y
E X P E R I E N C E
T H A T Y O U ' R E I N
C H A N G E S I T . "
I can see how that bothered you because of your body language right now! [laughs] People didn’t see you. They saw your color. Damn ain’t that ironic!
[laughs] You know, that was the token for some people But I've done research I’ve done a certificate program here on leadership and toxic masculinity Trying to transform that into something healthier, realizing the issue at its source and trying to resolve it Also, me living it and trying not to do that shows other people, oh, I don't have to be this rigid hegemonic stereotypical masculine person
Now, and I’m being nosy, but I saw this on Instagram so I have to ask. [laughs] Are you in a relationship?
I am It's my first serious relationship
Congratulations.
Thank you We met on Tinder
Say what!?
Yeah, I know He lives in the DetroitAnn Arbor area He's great We met or we swiped [laughs] We've been talking since June and we ' ve been dating since like September He's a little bit older, but I like that cause I think both of us are very mature He's biracial as well
I may have to interview him next. [laughs]
He does a lot He’s a dance instructor in Ann Arbor He also went to the Detroit Institute of Music Education or DIME He’s managed artists that traveled through Europe.
He's knows a lot of the music scene in Detroit
I know you posted a photo, but are y’all out in the open?
Oh yeah I think there's aspects that we both agree on I'm not going to put my whole relationship online
Right cuss we all know where that leads.
Mmm-hmm We share each other on social media, but when we ' re with each other, it's kind of more so [us]
Do y’all hold hands and stuff in public?
I advocate for public displays of affection I mean, I still think it's gross if you ' re making out and having sex with clothing on, but I should be allowed equal rights to do whatever I should be able to hold my boyfriend's hand He's had experiences that are different from mine Sometimes he has to analyze the situation before we can hold hands, like around kids or certain individuals For myself, I'm like, kids are going to need to know They're going to learn, right?
They’re gonna see and learn and do.
I think this is going to help the kid that might be in a situation that I used to be in and be like, it is okay to hold somebody's hand I think I am an agent for change My boyfriend and I, just being open publicly is an agent for change Making people comfortable
remember this cause I said I was going to specifically ask you this because you’re in a relationship.
Was it about catching and pitching? No! [laughs]
That shit is so funny
What the hell? Catching and pitching must be the new top or bottom. [laughs]
Have you ever gotten a DM from somebody and like
The very first question is that or your dick size? OH! Thank you, that was the question! It was about getting to know somebody. The second paradox is: we say we want this beautiful, awesome, epic relationship, but the first thing that we run to is sex. What are your thoughts on that, and how does that play into your relationship?
The paradox on like wanting this big love story and resorting to sex is that, I don't think it's realistic at all There's more to relationship building For a while I'm sure sex and having that instant gratification is probably pretty good
But at the end of the day when this isn't a person I can go to talk to or this isn't somebody that I could see myself getting married to or have kids with, if you choose to do that, it doesn't work out I think media has a lot to play in people's eyes of like, this is what I expect
I was having a conversation with Vol. 03 feature and let me see if I can
Oh, for sure. Media plays a huge role in setting expectations of what’s accepted and what’s not.
That’s not what it is or how it turns out I mean, a lot of times you only get like a heterosexual love story Not saying the ideals are completely different, but the image is different I think it can happen I just think in a different way
You can have this amazing love story, but not based on sex In relating that to my relationship with my boyfriend, I think it's great because we have already come to that conclusion that it's not just sex We don't just have sex We'll have a conversation We'll talk We'll talk about our goals What we want with our lives
Y’all are comfortable with each other and you maintain good communication?
100% It is shocking how pretty good at we are at trying to understand each other and communicating that We even remind each other like we ' re not just here for sex, cause it is kind of fresh
Well we have gay marriage in 2015 and then we have transgender bathroom issues and other gamut of stuff. You say you are a change agent, but do you associate that with activism and social justice?
Yes How I see it, is me being an individual and doing things make it easier for others. Instead of [them] seeing it on the news or researching themselves. It's kind of like a domino effect. That's why I'm involved with the Intercultural Center (ICC)
The Campus Activities Board (CAB) that I'm president of, I make sure that when we are talking, it's very well rounded and everybody's respected and their perspectives are shared We look at even engaging students on campus in a different way I think bigger than just campus though [laughs] It's gonna take more than just myself, but one of my jobs is making people aware
Most definitely.
Cause I think a lot of people, you know, may be aware but they don't necessarily understand or they kind of are ignorant to certain facts
I did notice that you do a lot of activities here on campus. What are you majoring in and what are you hoping to do with your major?
Originally, it was Business Marketing There was a lot of homophobic, racist marketing schemes out there and standards of beauty A lot of people aspire to be a white woman, a white man or something I was interested in the aspect of, are there classes here and is there space in the world where there are advertisements that aren't targeted specifically for that That or making a social change in marketing
Obviously that didn't work out. [laughs]
That kind of fell out of line because some of the classes are boring I think some of the professors probably have great success and do a lot of things, but a lot of them are the same. They're all white, and they all only speak from their experiences. They don't try to incorporate the class
"I ADVOCATE FOR PUBLIC DISPLAYS OF AFFECTION. I SHOULD BE ALLOWED EQUAL RIGHTS TO DO WHATEVER. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO HOLD MY BOYFRIEND'S HAND."
I changed it to Sociology because I do a lot of work for the ICC, and that's one of our views. It's a sociological view on disparities. I turned my minor into entrepreneurial-ism. At this time, I'm kind of…
Floating? [laughs]
I'm kind of free-floating because I know I'm not going to do just one thing in my life
Definitely doesn’t seem like you.
Right? I'm taking some Sociology classes right now If I don't think it would be beneficial to me as a major, I think I might do it as a minor in entrepreneurial-ism and marketing cause I'd like to be my own boss
When I first met you, or rather when I stalked your Instagram [laughs] I definitely got a very business, take no shit kind of attitude. Like you remind me of Jesse from Vol. 05. Just this very straight forward attitude.
That is so funny. I've gotten that since day one. I was at orientation and my orientation leader said, ‘I just see you as a CEO or head of some business or doing something.’ I like that. I'm trying to kind of tap into a more humanitarian sort of thing. I think you can blend business and being a humanitarian pretty well. That's what I want to do. But also, I don't want just one stream of income. There's a lot of signs that are pointing me toward doing multiple things at this moment in time.
This next question refers to a text message conversation we had. You mentioned you were looking for something greater; something more to this human experience. I assume waking up, going to school, going to work, having a drink, going out to eat, etc is becoming a bit monotonous? Have you had any luck in kind of figuring it out a little bit more?
I have. It's so interesting. My boyfriend that fell into my life and everything, he mentioned to me he believes
"I always tell everybody: whatever you are, be a good one."
that we are this land of abundance Like anything that I call for I get
We stan a conscious boyfriend. [laughs]
Yeah, he's a very spiritual person I think I'm unlocking that I think a lot of people are scared to really test spirituality I do think I have a bigger purpose I do think that I'm going to do big things outside of myself I'm starting to call out for things and wake up in the morning and appreciate things I really think it helps There's a space and a place for it, but I'm just starting on the tip of the iceberg with that.
It's a reason you and I have met for this. Consider this a steppingstone of manifesting greatness into your life.
My boyfriend mentioned to me, 'I manifested you into my life.' That's what he said.
Lawd help us today! I would’ve had to ugly cry. I wish a man would! [laughs]
And for me, I was like oop! [laughs]
Tell his ass he better watch his words. Trying have you fall in love out here and shit. [laughs]
Mmm-hmm. It's just very…it's searching or finding out deeper. Even with Dr. P. when I met her, it was just on a whim, right? Like, I don't know if she told you.
She mentioned that she met this amazing human being per usual. [laughs]
She was at one of the events. She's like, ‘ you just seem like the guy to know.’ I was like, okay thank you so much. I went to the ICC and she walked by and she said, ‘I just got to stop and say hello. You just got this big energy about you. ’ And my friend Emmanuel sat next to me and she's like, ‘he's the shit, so you must be the shit if you ' re hanging out with him ’
I’m dying. Yeah, sounds just like her. [laughs]
She was basically telling me I know more than what I let on and I'm here to disrupt [laughs] Go on.
I believe her It was cool, and at that
time I needed that That's what I really needed, cause it was a little foggy
I say that still holds true. I know who I am, and I’m interviewing you for this. You gotta be somebody worth knowing. Somebody with a grandiose purpose than just what you're doing right now. 100%.
If yo man says he manifested you in his life, that's big shit. That means you got a lot of spiritual stuff going on. I can't wait to see what your journey will look like.
I’m pretty excited. I have been trying to like meditate. Just finding time to do that because I'm a creature of habit. Now I'm trying to incorporate it a little bit more into my life. I'm starting to do more stuff that I want to do instead of what somebody else wants me to do it.
That's what I like about having these conversation. Y’all are searching for freedom and wanting to be comfortable in yourself. Wanting to be like, okay, I'm this in this moment, but then I’m this in the next moment. I'm a completely, totally different person and that is going to frustrate and upset a lot of you. That's the beauty Dr. P as well finds in people like yourself.
I'm really trying to align myself in every situation and that's intentionally who I am and what I want I talk about that all the time, being intentional and trying to be concurrent with stuff
That's a very spiritual practice, right? Essentially you are aligning your chakras, your energy centers to allow blessings, manifestations and
your purpose to flow abundantly and naturally. Looking at your life, what advice, wisdom, courage, would you give to people?
A couple things I always tell everybody: whatever you are, be a good one. I know it's pretty general, but like, whatever you ' re going to be like, be the best. You being yourself promotes change, right? Like any experience that you ' re in changes it. Don't be a hypocrite.
Like actions speak louder than words. Like, look baby, I know you ' re talking, but you need to put it to action cause at this point it's just air.
The shade of it all! [laughs] Any last little words?
I think the university and Flint in general have a lot to offer. There's a lot of innovation and whatnot after the Flint Water Crisis and just what Flint's been through. I think it's resilient. In a lot of things are coming back, and I'd love to be a part of it in any way that I can. That's one of my goals is to try to give back and just leave a mark here.
This will be one of those things that will leave a mark. Imma make you look good. [laughs]
Thank you. I’m excited. [laughs]
Thank you very much for this. I really appreciate it. Now we’re part of each other’s lives. We are no longer strangers. Check in on me and I'll do the same.
