SEASON 03 SEASON 03
VOL. XXI
VOL. XXI
JJULY ULY ''20 20
Joshua Parker The imperfect Angel
If there is anybody who, for me, has modeled evolution, then it would be Joshua Parker. Joshua and I have known each other since our days at Beecher High School. That doesn't mean we were as close then as we are now-our friendship has grown I lived in my bubble, and after I graduated, I didn't see Joshua for a while All that changed around 2008, when we somehow, probably through a mutual friend, reconnected and realized we were both Black queer men.
We discovered "the gay life" at almost the same time. Not only that, but our network of friends also consisted of the same people. The truth is that Joshua, Kyle, Keith, and I, for a while, road in the same circles.
During that time, Joshua and I became incredibly close. We walked downtown Flint for hours at night, talking and giving each other counsel I spent the night at his house and became acquainted with his amazing mother At the time, we felt our lives resembled our favorite pop stars, and their respective albums-mines was Britney Spears' Circus, while he picked Mariah Carey's Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel.
But in 2009, I left the scene, determined to make school be the avenue that got me out the ghetto, while he stayed in it. All I heard about my friend were the stories of his drama-filled life and the destruction of his relationships
Our worlds separated, and we lost contact for ten years
In 2018, at the invitation of a friend, I arrived in Dallas, Texas, intending to call it my new home It was there, Joshua, and I reconnected. As Black queer men heading into our thirties, our lives had changed, but the love between us did not.
I spent the three months I stayed in Dallas, getting to know this new version of Joshua. I listened to his stories from back then and the ones at that moment. My friend was married to his husband and chose to live a quiet life. In these moments, what once was, grew to mean so much more.
Well, I've rambled long enough I hope you'll enjoy, in my opinion, one of the best interviews/conversations yet for the Modern Queer Welcome to Season 03 | Vol 21 with Joshua Parker
Xzavier V. Simon
I know you’re nervous, but that makes two of us. [laughs] Over time, I’ve learned there are many unknown variables, and I don't know how anybody will respond. I’m just like the shit looks good to me so, here it is! [laughs]
Oh no, it was an honor I appreciate you asking me I've known you for so many years and we've been really good friends for a long time You know I would not ever in a million years let somebody interview me! [laughs] For you, I knew it was worth the risk
When I think about it, you all have unique lives. Some have stepped on some toes, made people angry, etc. It became evident that the conversation surrounding you all said to me we need to heal. So, I must be doing something right. I'm expecting that when this drop, some people will be like, ‘oh no, not that bitch.’ [laughs]
In my mind, I am beloved the world over. [laughs] But it's definitely a big part of opening myself up. It's something I enjoy. I'm all about us and we and the interpersonal relationships between people and all those things What makes this different is, it's not that one on one when we were in the shack by the sea! [laughs]
[laughs] For those who don’t know, the shack by the sea is in reference to his old apartment in Dallas. I lived there for three months, and after ten years of not seeing each other, Joshua and I reconnected.
That was such an amazing moment between us. Just going out and throwing the football and and all that stuff. I loved those days and I had so much fun.
We did a lot of bonding. He mentioned the football experience. I’ve said this before but having those moments of throwing that football was such a healing moment. It healed a part of my masculinity immensely.
Damn, I feel like such a good friend! [laughs] But it was you and me. What makes this appealing is that it's still you and me, but with a scope. It's going to be out there. I feel like the way that we vibe and our conversation, our entire friendship, has been based on really good communication We literally walked downtown Flint for hours talking and doing fucking nothing [laughs]
That was the beginning of our friendship. [laughs]
The vibe that you and I have, I don't mind the world seeing. I don't mind the world being able to see the way that we communicate and me expressing my story to you.
But this is a continual trust on both sides. You all are entrusting me with your stories, your lives, your experiences. I'm trusting that you are going to give me realness, honesty, and vulnerability, and not be afraid to say real shit when I ask a real question.
There have been some people that haven't been truthful, or truthful in one moment and hide the next. In the aftermath, I’m annoyed, but I realize that if this the story you want to create, then who I am say what your truth is and what isn’t.
I think it's about understanding what you're signing up to do I understand that I might really enjoy some parts of this interview and some parts I might not like [laughs] I might really enjoy the finished product, and then I might be like, ‘why he put that in there!’ That’s okay. That’s what I signed up for. I signed up to be open. I told you, and I'm a man of my word, that you could ask me anything.
You did! [laughs] As long as we've known each other, I don't know how you grew up. We were friends because we went to the same school. You were a class under me, and we were both in the BSIP program. But I don't know anything about how you grew up with your mom, who I’ve met, and is a phenomenal woman.
She wished me luck today too
Did she!?
She said, ‘well, you know, he's always been nice He ain't gone do you wrong You’ll like it ’ [laughs]
[laughs] I love her. Tell her I said thank you. So, I'm assuming you grew up in a single parent household with a mother who was dating, if it looked anything like growing up with my momma. [laughs]
[laughs] That’s partially correct. It's weird looking back because if you asked me off the top of my head, I think I had a very happy normal, well-adjusted childhood. I was raised by my mom and my grandma. We lived in the same apartment complex, so my grandma was a big part of my life. My dad wasn't there a lot He was there sometimes I want to give him some credit But, he has over 20 children
Damn! Papa was a rolling stone for real.
Pretty much My mom and my grandma raised me I remember being in very compromising situations as a child and not being able to process that they were not good. My granny used to deal drugs when I was younger and then became a user. As a kid, you're not thinking, ‘oh my God, we just went to the car lot and bought this truck cash.’
[laughs] What in the fuck!
It's a story [laughs] There was this situation that just went bad [This man] had a knife up to my granny throat I had to be five at this time My grandma got her gun, and I'm turnt up I'm like, ‘yeah shoot him, granny!’ As a thirty-year-old man, I look back like what the fuck? [laughs]
That’s wild!
My mom was the balance. My mom was about education, enjoying life, being positive, a lot of the same qualities that I have today. The overall feeling when I think about growing up is a good one. I feel like I had a pretty happy, blessed life growing up.
Talk to me about your relationship with your mother. And tell me about when you decided you wanted to reveal your sexual identity to her.
That very first night of coming out was terrible I didn't want to come out
I wasn’t trying to. Now, my mom, she is a woman that was born in 1968 and raised in an African American community. Growing up, my momma would say stuff that today would be considered homophobic. She wasn't a gay basher, but she would make insensitive jokes.
MY GRANNY USED TO DEAL DRUGS WHEN I WAS YOUNGER AND THEN BECAME A USER. AS A KID, YOU'RE NOT THINKING, ‘OH MY GOD, WE JUST WENT TO THE CAR LOT AND BOUGHT THIS TRUCK CASH.’
I can see that. The times back then were different for sure.
I was a little nervous about her finding out. We were having a discussion, and I got so mad about whatever she was saying. She was like, ‘why are you this mad? What do you want to tell me?’ I came out, and she had a meltdown. She was just like, ‘I don't know what to do. I don't believe this. Oh my god, my son is gay!’ [laughs]
Wow that's crazy.
That was the first time growing up, at 18, that I left the house at night on bad terms I left home like, ‘I'm leaving, and I don't know when I'm coming back!’ I never left home like that
So, you ran away? [laughs]
I ran away even though I was grown as hell [laughs] I came back the next day and my mom apologized. She told me she loved me. She said that it was uncomfortable for her. It was going to take some time, but she's going to accept me and be there for me. Since then, it's been crazy the stuff that has happened. I've never been to a PRIDE event, but my mom has. She did a complete 180.
Talk about evolution. It reminds me of Kirei’s mom.
I think it was one of those things I don't think she understood. She didn't know a lot of gay people. My mom asked me when I came out, she said, ‘are you going to start wearing dresses now?’ I’m like lady! [laughs]
She believed the stereotypes.
She didn't know anything about the gay community All she knew was what she seen on TV, which clearly growing up in the timeframe that she grew up in, and raising a child in the nineties, wasn't right. But my mom is my everything. That’s my ride or die, my best friend. Everybody loves my mom.
I think having that experience with you allowed her to be open, learn, understand, and give advice to those of us who walked through her doors. Having accepted her son, she could accept others.
You know from experience my mom is welcoming to everybody She's going to talk shit and mess with you and all of that [laughs] My mom is just that kind of woman I have so much respect and admiration for her
When did you come to realize the attraction to men?
I wasn't one of those kids that felt different, even though I think I was. I didn't know when I was four or five. Probably sixteen or seventeen when I started feeling like, ‘damn, I don't think I should like him this much.’ [laughs] ‘Like this nigga cool, but this not adding up.’ I remember one day being in the bathroom, looking in the mirror and saying oh my god.
That sounds SUPER dramatic. [laughs]
It was very dramatic, but it was like that I was shocked [laughs]
[laughs] How was the self-acceptance process?
I don't think I accepted myself or started the process until way later Even when I had those feelings, I still had a girlfriend at the time. [laughs] I didn't contemplate accepting it and what it meant for my life until everything happened with me and my mom. When I knew that my mom loved me unconditionally, and at 21, I found out that God loved me unconditionally, I think those were the moments where I said fuck the haters imma do me, bro. [laughs]
That process began in my mid-twenties. I slept with men and was in relationships, but I didn’t sit and process that this was
probably gonna be present for the rest of my life. [laughs] When I turned 28, I settled into the fact. That process began in my mid-twenties. I slept with men and was in relationships, but I didn’t sit and process that this was probably gonna be present for the rest of my life. [laughs] When I turned 28, I settled into the fact.
Even still, identifying as queer, there are internal battles of discrimination racism, and disgust we hold for other queer people. In the beginning, I did not like super feminine guys, not realizing that I held privilege in a lot of ways because you couldn't immediately clock me.
I think that that's an ongoing thing. I think that's just a human thing, especially coming from the world we come from. You have things automatically stacked against you being Black, being in the LGBTQ community. It's so many targets on you.
I think there's a lot of things that we internalize and are not conscious of. The first step for me is always doing that selfcheck Checking myself and checking my inner thoughts What am I saying to myself? When I started to do that, I had to be honest with myself I was a homophobic gay person
And what does that mean for the folks at home? [laughs]
[laughs] It means, I was actively gay, actively living a gay lifestyle, but I did not like gay people. I was completely homophobic. I didn't want to work with gay people. I didn't want to be around other gay people if it wasn't my man. It took me a long time to realize that I was taking it out on people because of certain experiences I had. A gay person walks in the room, and the other gay person, me, is sitting there smiling. [laughs] In my head, I’m saying, ‘ugh this motherfucker. Ole gay ass all up in here.’
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do."
Yup. I had the same thoughts. It made me uncomfortable because I perceived them as comfortable and confident in who they were. It could’ve been true, but for all I know, they could’ve had the same internal self-hate party I was having.
It took me years to realize that to be projecting that deeply on that person, who I don't know, speaks WAY more to my insecurities about what I'm doing, and who I am than it does about him.
And that's the gag right there. [laughs]
That was a hard lesson to learn in life That one wasn’t fun [laughs]
It’s not. [laughs] So, me and you became close after high school and established some sense of identity. We discovered this newfound world that was underneath our eyes. This secret life that happened in the back streets, in people's houses, apartments, at the parks and at the club. [laughs]
I love the verbiage. [laughs] This is awesome. I literally pictured a seedy ass back alley with hookers and shit.
[laughs] I tried, didn’t I? Talk to me about your entrance into that world.
Honestly, it was like being a deer caught in the headlights. [laughs] It’s weird that you asked that because my experiences coming out, meeting other gay Black men, being around them, and parties, it was just that. This is the reason why I live my life solitary now Listen, I went to Beecher High School, okay [laughs] The kids that I graduated with, the bulk of them, I’ve known since pre-K or kindergarten
This is what I mean by I lived in a small community and stepping into the gay life was such a transition. Everything you said about Beecher was exactly my experience.
I'm used to these same people. This is what I’ve been around. This is where I've been. Now, I'm coming out, and there's all these guys, and we have these things in common. We Black. We gay. I entered it in that way, and a lot of drama came my way. At the time, I blamed it on the gay community. Now, that wasn't a gay issue. That wasn't a Black issue.
That was growing pains and life. I had to learn that the real world isn't like that. Everybody's not going to like you Some people are gonna love you Don't tell everybody your business That was the time frame for me to learn all the lessons That would've happened with me just leaving home
It was like you were having a Britney Spears, Kevin Federline, Chaotic, UPN TV show. [laughs]
[laughs] You will not speak that into my life!
For real! [laughs] When I think about your life, I think in terms of a music artist. You were a hot topic here in the community. People hated you, were gunning to break up your relationships, the rumors and stuff. How was it being in those situations and experiencing all of that?
Stressful. [laughs] That's me looking at it now. At the time, I was just living my life. When I
look back on it, going through it, maybe I thought it was normal or maybe I normalized it. It was guy after guy after guy. I wasn't working. I wasn't doing anything with my life.
So, you're having experiences with men. You understand that you can fall in love and be with a man. Then at some point, you cohabitate with a man! How did you come to terms with all of that?
I had a lot of help I had an accepting, loving parent I had friends that I’d known, and people that I went to school with to make that adjustment easier. I didn't feel living my life as a gay man was a difficult step. I didn't lose anthing. I didn't lose any friends. My family loved me. That's why now every day I wake up, I know to be grateful for those things. When I did have those moments, I had several people I could reach out to that understood what I was going through and how I felt. You were one of them. Y'all did a good job. I'm a reflection of you! [laughs]
And likewise! [laughs] Did you ever feel like your life was out of control?
Oh, of course In 2013, I was living in Dallas I was dating this guy for like a year and a half, and I met this other guy at work
[laughs] Nooooooo!
He was super flirtatious, very straightforward, and you know what I like. [laughs]
I ended up cheating on my boyfriend, who I lived with, with the dude from the job. Then I married the dude from the job. [laughs] We were married for three months. I'll just say this...it didn't work out. [laughs]
[laughs] What in the hell man!
Looking back on it, I know exactly why it didn't work out. It was built on some bullshit. I ain't have no business doing that scandalous ass shit in the first place. I got
"Listen, I went to Beecher High School, okay. [laughs] The kids that I graduated with, the bulk of them, I’ve known since pre-K or kindergarten."
what I deserved But luckily me and that ex are good friends now But that was when I was like, ‘damn, I'm out of control ’ [laughs] We flew out to L A and got married It was nice [laughs] And, I still had a boyfriend
This is why I say what I say about you and your life being legendary.
No, it’s like a bad episode of COPs [laughs] But thank you I do appreciate your positive optimism
Let me put this in context so I can make it even grander than what it already is.
Oh my god! [laughs]
You, at that time, identified as a Black gay man, went and married another Black gay man in an era when gay marriage was unconstitutional in a whole other state. [laughs] I-fucking-conic.
That shit really hit when someone read it back to you. [laughs]
I gotta put it in a context for the people. What you did can be looked at as extraordinarily iconic and forward moving or extremely messy. [laughs]
It was, and I was out of control Wrong, wrong
But still! So many Black queer people have wanted to get married and have that experience. One of my favorite movies is
Noah’s Arc: Jumping the Broom. For you to have that moment, regardless of the circumstances that led to it, holds value.
But that's the thing When it's done in the way that I did it, it no longer holds the value I wasn’t really in love with that man It wasn't what I was supposed to be doing. I didn't feel right about it. I knew what I was doing something shady as fuck. It didn't feel the way I guess people imagine it feeling when you get married to somebody. It didn't have that same value there. That feeling that you're talking about, all that was not present. It wasn't someone I love, and I'm prepared to do this with this person and understand what marriage is about. It wasn't none of that. It was me being young and dumb. There it is ladies and gentlemen.
If it ain't real, do not get married just because you want to get married. Wait till you get blessed with somebody that is meant for you.
Spoken by somebody who's who went and done it.
Twice!? When was the second time?!
I'm not perfect, but we learn from our mistakes [laughs] When I married the second time, I married for love
Was this the guy you were with when I came to stay in Dallas?
Yeah. Wow. I didn't know you got married twice.
Some people do, but a lot of people don't. Not something that I'm proud of.
I was shocked when I heard you got married. You moved to Dallas and disappeared from social media. You're
saying that the second marriage was in line with what we consider to be the things that go along with getting married to somebody?
I felt confident about it I felt good about it because I was married to somebody that I was crazy in love with Dangerously in love with!
Okay Beyoncé. But you were! There were photos of y'all. You lived together. There was this whole life y’all created.
We were really a power couple. I look back at the stuff that we accomplished together.
What did y'all accomplish together?
I don't want to sound materialistic. I’ll say we were a good team.
In layman's terms, they knew how to come together to build an empire. They did the damn thing, and he trying to be nonchalant and humble about it. They did big, amazing shit, and he don't want to brag about it. [laughs]
Oh my god! [laughs] Those are his words! But yeah, we had a good time We were married for five years.
Something that stuck out to me when I was in Dallas was when you were struggling with your sexuality. You were in relation or was talking to a woman and started to develop feelings for her.
I struggled terribly! [laughs] Up until that time, I was 27 or 28 when it happened, I lived my life as a gay man. I had been married fucking twice. I was pretty firm on where I was on the spectrum. [laughs]
You knew you was firmly gay!
That's what I believed That's what I was living I ended up getting close to one of my neighbors and the situation turned romantic
IF IT AIN'T REAL, DO NOT GET MARRIED JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GET MARRIED. WAIT TILL YOU GET BLESSED WITH SOMEBODY THAT IS MEANT FOR YOU.
I didn't think that it would because again, here's the dirt, I was still married at the time. [laughs]
This is a trend with you. [laughs]
My husband was in federal prison, okay! [laughs] I felt like well I'm not going to sleep with another man But it wasn't intended for her either She had a girlfriend, and they had this crazy-ass relationship We clicked, we connected, and Hennessy always makes it a crazy night [laughs]
Despite all my craziness, I really do believe in the sanctity of the sexual union. I believe in the sanctity of soul ties and things like that. I think you need to be very careful who you sleep with because you’re swapping more than just fluids.
Thank god people are realizing this.
There are all types of energy. There's a spiritual exchange. I am, unfortunately, one of those people that don't like a lot of random encounters. I do get attached via sexual intimacy and that's what happened there
I share the same trait. It’s one of two reasons, the other being the exchange of energies, that I don’t partake in random hookups either. But it seems to me you are in a better mental and emotional headspace about it. How do you identify now?
For the past maybe three or four years as a bisexual man. It wasn't something that I expected. I had my letter of the alphabet, and that was cool. But because I've lived such an open life and tried to do things genuinely and sincerely, if somebody touches me in that way, I'm open.
When you told me about that situation, I was like, ‘I love this man more than I already do.’ [laughs] My moment with a woman was when I was 25.
Like you, I was minding my own damn business, shucking and jiving with this big ass letter G on my chest like Superman. Then, almost a decade and a half later, it all came into question. I felt like I was in a second coming out phase.
I was just about to say that It’s a nightmare! It was like the cycle was completed because it was like being 18 again
It was! I had to wrap my head around this new version of me that exposed itself.
I thought I had this figured out. Now I’m confused. I wasn’t confused two years ago, what the fuck. [laughs]
Yes! Not only that, but I’m more confused than I was the first time! [laughs]
Yes! [laughs] The time frame of me living in Vegas was such a blast. There, the women were a lot more open. I got to explore that side of my sexuality. For me, it was eye opening. I got to date women, go out with them, kick it, drink, and smash. I got to experience them in a way that I hadn't since I was of 17 That's what made me decide, you know what, I think I want to move from the G to the B
I’m not sure if I’ve gotten to that point where I’m 100% comfortable with dating a woman again. I know it’s going to happen, and when it does, I’m going to call you! [laughs] But, what I did learn was that I shouldn't have been so stuck in one label anyway.It limited me from experiencing all that life could possibly bring me. Do you feel similarly?
I feel like a lot of these conversations I chose to put in one box or the other because maybe that just helped me out on my path. Now I look at them as what they are, and they're just humanities issues. I think that every person on the planet, depending on the circumstances, on the events that happened in your life, on nature versus nurture, are forever changing.
Ibelieveinthe sanctityofsoulties andthingslike that.youneedto beverycareful whoyousleep.
Our sexuality is no different. We're forever changing and that's okay. That's a good thing. I feel like it's been growth for me, and it's been positive.
Likewise, for me. I learned so much about myself from being in that relationship with that woman. Wow.
You’ll learn a lot from a woman real quick
Let me tell you something about that right there. [laughs]
Women got the juice! That’s who got it. [laughs] We just trying to keep up with them. That's what it is.
Amen. Well, the theme of this season is focused on evolution. Spirit told me to choose you because you fit the bill of evolution. You embody it. In June 2020, who are you today?
I'm the guy I wanted to be for many, many years. It's so crazy because I'm pretty much almost there and I didn't even realize it. The man that you see today is full of light, love, radiance, understanding I want to make you feel good, tell you how great you are, how amazing of a person you are I have my days though [laughs]
What do you want to leave people with about yourself, your life, and your experiences?
The best words of wisdom from my thirty years on this planet would be: don't allow outside influences to dictate the language you have within yourself. Work on you. If you are coming out of a bad relationship, a bad friendship, maybe you and your mom don't have the best relationship, whatever your situation is, always find something good. Find a reason to smile every day. Even if you don't believe it, look in the mirror and tell yourself you love you.
Like just do it. Even if you’re like, ‘I hate myself,’ get your ass in that mirror and say you love you motherfucker. [laughs] It'll settle in. You might have to do it for five, six years, but you hated yourself for twelve.
Okay. That's a process. It’s gone take awhile.
It’s gonna take a while but do the work You know me, I always preach about self work I could point the finger at this person, but it will be way more productive for me if I look inward and figure out what I need to do differently, and what I need to do to be the best incarnation of myself.
Well I'm done with you and with this interview. Thank you. I learned a lot. [laughs]
Well, I just sat here on the phone for an hour and 25 minutes, getting drunk, and spilling my tea, so it was good for me! [laughs]
I’m glad it was as good for you as it was me. [laughs]
I feel confident about it. I do feel that little sensitivity. Like I’m exposed. [laughs] I do feel a little bit of that. Overall, I feel great. I feel like it was very genuine and real I think you handled it well I was never uncomfortable or anything like that, which is kind of what I was more so afraid of But you pretty much went down the timeline You did your homework
I have my ways. [laughs]
For me, a lot of the time, I forgot I was being fucking recorded. That was iconic. That was the most iconic thing I did in 10 years.
Aye!!!
You gave me the real deal Barbara Walters! [laughs]
Not a 2020 interview! [laughs]
Nigga. I feel like I'm really on some shit. I had to make sure wasn’t no cameras in the house. [laughs]
[laughs] It’s because I found out that this is what I really love to do.
You’re really good at it. I had a blast. I've never been interviewed. I feel like a real rich bitch. I was so dead at the fucking Britney comment [laughs] I'm like this bitch! But when I told the story, I was like oh, okay, I see where he drew that conclusion
It wasn’t no shade. [laughs]
That’s what I mean You politely gut punched me and was absolutely correct [laughs]
But you know, this is like the Mariah Carey Emancipation of Mimi comeback. [laughs]
[laughs] Bitch I wish it was. I wish it was!
"It will be way more productive for me if I look inward and figure out what I need to do."
