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Y'all I'm tired! [laughs] Since December 2019, 17 volumes of Black, Latinx, and Asian queer voices have been published for the world to see. It is an incredible accomplishment. After sitting down with so many different people, I've come away with so much insight into the world of queer people of colour and myself
I'm not sure where to begin to unpack it all but I will at a later date For now, I just want to extend my thanks to everyone who participated in Season 02 and everyone who has read each issue. We've logged over 2000 views from the U.S., Japan, Singapore, China, and the U.K.
This isn't the end by any means Season 03 will be here real soon
Jya, ikimashou ka!
Season 02, the finale. Vol. 17
XZAVIER V. SIMON Editor-In-ChiefLike Ta'Mia, Ricardo, Tierra, and Gaby, I met Brittaney at Georgetown University. Looking at this, it has dawned on me that there were a lot of queer individuals I was around during those days. [laughs] The gag is, there's a few others on my hit list
I met Brittaney at Washington-Reagan airport in June 2017. It was my first time being in D.C., and the second time in my life I'd ever flown on a plane We played phone tag for at least 30 minutes trying to find each other in this big ass airport. We hopped in the Uber, which I had no idea was even a thing back then and headed towards to university.
My initial impressions of her was that she was intense She had a very present energy and aura I knew she didn't take any shit When we made small talk, she came off calm, sincere and a bit goofy. I realized and commented on the fact that it was Pride Month, but the parade in DC had already come and gone.
She looked over at me and said: "what you know about PRIDE?" That was when I knew she was queer. [laughs]
I watched her that summer work with students and assist them in ways that I know impact them to this day. She was dynamic, down-to-earth, and willing to listen and give advice. She was also concerned about buying a house. [laughs]
I think, for me, the moment we became close is when she took me aside and asked if she could speak to me privately. I don't know what I thought she was going to ask, but what she did ask took me by surprise. She asked me to give her spiritual counsel. That was a turning point.
Now my good friend has bought the house she wanted, graduated with a Masters in Education School Counseling, discovered a new side of her sexuality, and adopted her niece and nephew. And I thought my life since 2017 had been a journey.
We started with a Black queer woman, and for the finale of Season 02, we shall end with a Black queer woman. Let me introduce you to my good friend and Vol. 17's feature: Brittaney Norflis.
"I MEAN AS A BLACK QUEER WOMAN, I FEEL I AM ALLOWED TO BE UNAPOLOGETIC ALLY ME."
Whew it’s been quite a while. We haven’t seen each other since our time at Georgetown in 2017. That summer seems like a long time ago. [laughs] What’s been up?
Wow so many things have changed since that time I hardly even know where to begin The short version is I finished grad school! Yay.
The Black excellence stay dripping!
I gained custody of my niece and nephew. Bought the house that we talked about.
Yes, I saw on IG. You were gunning for that house. I knew you would get it.
Ended the relationship, as you predicted. [laughs]
[laughs] As my fave Regina Hall meme says: well hey!
I started and ended another relationship Toxic I know Finally began my journey of discovering me at 33 and single Whew
Got damn! And here I thought I was the only one caught up in a whirlwind. Well thank you for agreeing to do this. For those who are reading, who don’t know you, give us a little explanation of who you are?
Who is Brittaney? Well, I am a woman who is extremely passionate about walking in my purpose and living life intentionally.
She ain’t lying. I’ve witnessed it.
I am a parent by kinship I am an educator and counselor And sometimes I'm a hot mess [laughs]
These photos give a wide variety of looks, styles, and personality. How do you have fun and enjoy life?
I have fun by hanging out with my close circle of friends We do everything from travel together to random meet ups to celebrating holidays together in our PJ’s
I’ve seen the Instagram stories and you sure do be living the life. [laughs]
I love spending time with those who vibrate high and are true lovers of life. I have such an eclectic group of friends. One minute we are taking shots, the next we are in a yoga studio or getting a reading and talking about aligning our chakras.
And now I definitely need to be introduced to those friends!
Another conversation may be about a business venture or our next trip out of the country I truly feel blessed to have such an amazing group of people to keep me grounded
If I understand this correct, when we first met you identified as a lesbian. That’s changed recently due to a relationship with a trans-man. Number one…that’s hot! [laughs] But, before we get into that, when did you understand yourself to be a part of the queer community?
So funny story. I was catfished. [laughs] Before catfish was even a thing that is.
Are you serious? [laughs]
I was about 16 years old and I was friends with this guy. Let's call him G. One day I get a call from someone saying that he is G's cousin We will call him J J was visiting G and just wanted some friends to talk to Ok, no problem
[laughs] Because that’s how it used to work back in the day!
So, J and I conversed over the phone and really hit it off Time passes, J goes back home, and we continue talking We develop a really dope friendship and began dating at 16, over the phone [laughs] J sends me money and all kinds of gifts for about a year
What the hell kind of boyfriend was this!? [laughs]
Finally, one day J says, ‘I have something to tell you. My name is really Julia and I'm a girl.’
Come through Jules! [laughs]
My mind was blown. I had a tough decision to make: do I cut this person off that I have known for over a year and that I have developed strong feelings for? Or do I explore and follow my heart? I followed my heart I lied to my parents and told them that Julia was a friend who moved away, and I wanted her to come and visit They believed me and let her come and visit
Mmm, mmm, mmm. We gone need more than just tea for this! [laughs] But real shit I respect that. The first guy I got serious with lived in a totally different city, and I was the only one with a car. I lied to my mom all the time. She thought I was 10 minutes away when I really an hour and some change!
WHEEEWWWW chile!
I’m fucking dead! [laughs] It went down faster than barefoot jack rabbit on a hot greasy griddle in the middle of August!?
It went down do you hear me!! At that moment I developed an emotional and physical attraction to women That relationship lasted another year or so
But it was too difficult to keep lying to my parents without them developing suspicions of why I wanted to keep traveling back and forth to see her
Right. Eventually the jig is up. What happened after that?
I still didn't accept the title of "lesbian." I just knew that I liked connections and I was willing to date people who made me happy.
I like that. You didn’t put a label on it and simply acknowledged the connection between people. That’s dope.
Around 19 I stopped dating men and exclusively began dating women. After a long internal battle, I finally excepted my lesbianism It was a difficult journey as my family is very religious and same sex relationships were extremely frowned upon Hell, it was completely unacceptable in fact
How is the relationship like with your family? It sounds like there were growing pains.
The relationship with my family is...pretty good actually.
"I LOVE SPENDING TIME WITH THOSE WHO VIBRATE HIGH AND ARE TRUE LOVERS OF LIFE."
I have always been really close with my mother and father They both had very adverse and differing reactions to me being with women However, when I began my first relationship, I was 19, in college and in a position to support myself even though I didn’t need to. When it did cause tension with my dad, I moved out. [laughs]
Damn you just threw up the deuces and dipped!? I’m happy you were in a fortunate position to be able to do that. I imagine things that could’ve gone over to well. It’s like a slap in the face without the actual slap. [laughs]
Things were strained for maybe a year or so But, in the words of the late great Kobe, he’s a #girldad [My father] eventually learned that regardless of who I am in a relationship with, my morals and values haven’t changed, and I am still successful
That takes care of dad, but what about mom?
As far as my mom’s side of the family, at the young age of 30 I realized I was the matriarch of my family. I had pushed myself emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and financially to a point where I had almost every capacity to support my immediate family. That, at times, complicated relationships because of my desire and my family’s need for me to be “there ” I had to learn how to set healthy boundaries for my partner and my family
Growing up in Texas what’s the culture like for Black queer people?
It really depends on where in Texas you live. I don’t think people realize how big Texas is. [laughs] You can drive 8 hours and still be in Texas!
That should never be a thing!! [laughs]
But I mean it is still the south and a red state. This is a state where Jim Crow governed the people. Some of those deeply rooted ideologies are still prevalent especially in some of your smaller more rural areas. I recently took a position at smaller school district outside of the suburban area where I live. I pass by several confederate flags and Trump 2020 posters. However, in the city we had an openly gay woman as a mayor followed by a Black man.
Plus, Houston is home of the wellknown progressive political leader Shelia Jackson Lee! I do however feel a sense of freedom here I mean as a Black queer woman I feel I am allowed to be unapologetically me I am celebrated as both and the spaces that I share don’t force me to choose one over the other I exist as a Black queer woman and I fight equally for representation of who I am. Houston welcomes, loves, and celebrates all of me.
Well we gone come back to that last part believe me. [laughs] For now, you’re a teacher and received your Master's in Education School Counseling. What’s been your experiences teaching and being a part of the spectrum? Do you run into any issues?
Being in education, and as involved with my students as I am, I hardly ever revealed that part of my life I was very careful when discussing my relationship with my students or other colleagues I would use very vague phrases such as ‘me and bae’ or ‘they sent me flowers ’ I was more than your average teacher.
I was a sponsor to several organizations in which I would stay long hours after work, travel with students, sponsor lock ins, etc My fear was that if parents knew my sexuality, they may not want me working with their child. It would have broken my heart if a parent pulled their kid because of who I loved.
Being an educator too, I totally understand that. It is a tricky thing to navigate because you know how anyone is going to react. I find in my experiences, that the students are more accepting than the parents.
There were moments when I would tell some students If there were a student who was in the LGBT community and needed an ally or someone who could give advice or guidance from experience, then I would disclose But it was very rare that I would
Really!? I seem to run into at least one! [laughs] I must have gaydar with students and vice versa.
I feel that I avoided running into any issues. But I hated having to omit that part of my life.
Definitely understand. Teaching can be very tiring and at time very rewarding. I’m sure a lot of teachers feel the general public and government don’t understand or appreciate the profession. For you, how has teaching made you grow as a person? What lessons have you learned about the art of teaching itself?
Wow again! Where do I even start This profession has taught me so much. I learned empathy, compassion, patience, how to be selfless.
"EVERYTHING THAT I'VE LEARNED ABOUT LIFE ITSELF CAN BE APPLIED IN MY CAREER."
As a woman I became more nurturing and I was very intentional about being a Black female role model to my babies. This profession became a part of my identity. It was more than teaching the curriculum. I was charged with preparing little humans to become lifelong learners who could analyze, think critically, and thrive in a world of capitalism, sexism, racism, and every other ism or barrier that they would face.
Agreed.
As a counselor I am charged with not only guiding them into being college or career readiness, but to be able to thrive in life. I am charged with helping them work through their complicated emotions. My career has been a direct reflection of my life.
How so?
Everything that I've learned about life itself can be applied in my career. Every tool I use in my career can be applied to my life. I don't know many other
professions that are this challenging and rewarding at the same time
Do you believe education, as it’s currently taught, is conducive to Black and other queer students of color?
Prior to working at my last campus, I would say no. Education, especially in Texas, is taught in a way that favors and follows the status quo.
I’d argue that’s the goal of the system itself.
However, at my previous campus the curriculum was one that was inclusive and progressive. It focuses on students knowing their history, their heritage, so that they understand the power they possess and the power that comes along with acquiring knowledge.
Interesting. Even those things come with mandates, so how have you navigated through that?
As educators it is our job to take the curriculum that we are given and teach it in such a way that empowers students to, again, become critical thinkers and to take deep analysis of the information being given My goal in the classroom was to teach my students to have a voice and to always be active and engaged in what is happening in the classroom, in their community, their lives, and to be proactive about creating and cultivating the future that they desired.
Well in addition to being an educator and teaching the youth at school, you also have full custody of your niece and nephew. Can you share a little bit about how that happened?
With my nephew, he originally lived with his mother until he was maybe 9 or 10 He began to spend a lot of time at my mother’s house It was more stable and structured than his mother's house She wasn't a bad mother, she's just more of a friend to her children than a parent. With my niece it was a little different. Her mother was and is an unfit parent. She just kind of dropped her off with my mother when she was about four and we didn't see much of her after that.
Well damn.
My mother and I always kind of discussed that I would take the kids when they became teens. I knew that it would be difficult as she got older to raise teens and I felt I would be better prepared to handle them. So, when my nephew was going into 9th and my niece into 6th, they moved to Houston with me. Boy has this been a journey. Let me just say parenting ain’t for punks! [laughs]
Girl don’t I know it. For a while I was playing “parent” to three teenagers back when I was in college. One stayed with me for a short while and whew shit! [laughs] I think I gained greater appreciation for my mother raising 4 four boys by herself But obviously living with you they must’ve seen and y’all must’ve had conversations regarding your sexuality. How do they feel in regard to that and how important was it for you to have to those conversations?
It's never really something that we had to talk about. Since they were born, I had always dated women. It's all they knew of me, so they never really questioned it.
Okay that makes sense. It was always the norm.
Now, there was a moment when conversations became a little tricky The first girlfriend they remember, mind you I was in that relationship for about 7 years straight, was with a woman who was very masculine presenting. Sometimes my niece would think she was a man.
Oh shit! [laughs]
I would very gently remind her that K was a woman and that clothes and hair don't determine who you are. Then my second long-term relationship was with a woman who was a little more feminine presenting.
I guess you could say she was a "soft stud" if that’s even a thing. Don't get me started on labels. [laughs]
But it seems with your niece and nephew you kinda had to talk about labels and gender identity anyway. [laughs]
I digress. [laughs] With her, my niece would be confused because she wore tight jeans, men’s shoes, had long locs but wore make up [laughs]
I’m dead. [laughs] You can’t clock nobody in these streets anymore. Models of expression have expanded tremendously.
And again, I would explain to her that clothes don't determine who you are. Now with my last relationship, though he is trans, he is also stealth. None of my family knows and very few friends.
Well I hope this doesn’t get you or him into any hot water.
As far as they know I went from dating women to dating a man. I mean that's what I did.
Yeah essentially you did.
They never really inquired as to why I was dating a man
Not even a question?! [laughs]
They just rolled with it [laughs] My mother and father were like ‘yay she's not dating women anymore.’ Whatevs. [laughs]
Well let's talk about that relationship with that man for a second. [laughs]
My most recent heart break came from dating him. I thought I would spend my life with him.
Lawd!!
So, now my whole world is upside down because I once considered myself to only be with women.
[laughs] That’s how I felt when I dated a woman! Life is crazy ain’t it? You think you like one thing and then boom you like another or fall into something totally new.
Now I think I only want to date trans-men Ugh it’s a mess [laughs]
I ain’t mad at you for that one! Speaking of how have you balanced dating, especially being falling in love with women and now men? What sort of things do you learn about yourself and the many stereotypes that arise?
Well I think dating, no matter who you are dating is...I don’t know actually. [laughs]
Cat got your tongue. [laughs]
I’ve never really dated. I’ve met people I like, gotten to know them and boom we were in a 5-or-8-year relationship. I would also like to clarify something. I wouldn’t say I dated a trans-man. I have been in a relationship with a man of trans experience He was always who he is, but his journey to becoming the man that he is was different from others Some men never become the man that they were called to be, and some do
That is an excellent clarification made and relates to how Xorianna felt about her and her journey.
But I’ve learned a lot about myself. I learned first in foremost that a genuine connection, chemistry, and attraction mean everything to me. I feel that what I have learned about myself when it comes to relationships can’t be associated to the gender of the person.
Again, I love that part of not letting things be defined by the gender of a person. If the connection is real who cares. Did you ever feel a sense of feeling like you were fetishized in a way because of your sexual identity?
Of course! [laughs] Men are always quick to say stupid shit like, ‘she doesn’t know what to do with that,’ ‘you just haven’t had the right man’ or ‘oh you have a girlfriend, me too ’
I’m not even surprised. I was curious because of the fetishization of lesbian women by heterosexual men.
[It’s like] ugh! Nigga get your ignorant no substance having ass out my face [laughs] But men like that have no idea how to treat any woman at all. Bless their little dumb ass hearts.
[laughs] Well, let’s go back to your comments around social justice and advocacy. How do you use your position as a teacher/counselor and community leader to advocate for Black and Black queer people?
I am in a position where I am able to educate others. That primarily happens through dispelling or attempting to dispel so many of the myths surrounding what it is like to be a part of this communityespecially within the Black community I hate to say it but our people will protect the child molester and outcast the gay or lesbian relative
Ain’t that the tea.
I try to have or help not only create a safe space but facilitate healthy conversations where we can be seen and understood as people. Where relationships are seen as more than just a sexual encounter, and one that normalizes our lives because hell we are just normal people loving who we love.
Those conversations around sex and the normalization of queerness are so needed. We spend so much our time trying to gain validation of self and others through sex or fighting trying to be seen. And that’s all of us, not just the queer community.
Sometimes people can't see beyond the "sin" or the sex. I do my best to help people see the relationship as loving and nurturing relationships just like any other relationship Easier said than done
Well trying to shift generations worth of old traditions and beliefs ain’t an easy task. [laughs] Just tryna to heal as an individual from that seems like it’s going to be a lifelong endeavor. As a Black queer woman, what in these identities give you validation and struggle?
Queer is a word that resonates with my spirit more so than my sexuality. Anyone who knows me would use any of the synonyms of the word queer when describing me. I am delightfully strange, unusual yet unique. I mean I'm an Aquarius for goodness sake. Of course, I'm queer! [laughs] But the struggle for me comes in having to fit myself into a box and be limited to any label other than woman and Black
What have you found are the challenges young people face in today’s world?
I think the next generation has some slight advantages as youth growing into adults. In current climates, being gay or lesbian is not as taboo as it once was. I would even go as far as to say, with our youth of today even being trans isn't as hot of a topic as it is with most adults.
"FIRST IN FOREMOST, A GENUINE CONNECTION, CHEMISTRY, AND ATTRACTION MEAN EVERYTHING TO ME."
That I will agree on. It’s not really the children, or the students in the case, who are going to bat for this as hard as the adults are. Not to say that there aren’t those who are, because there are, but it is more socially acceptable to be queer in young social circles.
My niece and nephew watch shows such as I am Jazz, or famous YouTubers like Sydney Starr or Dawn Marie and always use the correct pronouns. So, on one hand there's a more freedom and acceptance. I think the challenges are that while there's a lot of progress and acceptance, it's not reflective of our entire society
Talk to me about what you see between the Black community vs the Black queer community?
The biggest difference in the Black community and the Black queer community is hoteps and the fragile black male ego.
The hoteppery strikes again! [laughs]
It goes back to what I mentioned earlier about being able to exist wholeheartedly as who I am. The Black community can at times force you to choose between your Blackness and your queerness.
Yeah. In the beginning of my journey to reconcile my Blackness with my queerness, there was this sense of division. I could not for the longest find common ground between the two. I had many conversations with friends who are for Black liberation and even then, I felt like I had to choose.
Which is crazy. Some people feel there’s some type of “gay agenda” and that being gay is diminishing the stability of the Black household. In my Angela Rye voice, ‘boy bye!’ [laughs] If the oppressed would stop trying to become the oppressors then maybe we could get further along in pushing the Black Agenda.
Now that’s a conversation Black people don’t wanna have!
But because there’s so many divides that have infiltrated the plan it’s almost impossible at this point to cultivate an all-inclusive space in “our” community
I journal, I meditate, I drink a lot of wine, and take very long hot showers. [laughs] I recently added becoming a solo traveler to my list. I think about the things that make me happy and I do more of that. I pay attention to the things that upset me, make me feel stressed, or that just changes the energy and I do less of that.
That’s beautiful. I’m happy you’ve made such a radical transformation.
This is all still brand new, so I am a work in progress But I am getting better and better each day
What advice or mentorship do you give your students and perhaps your niece and nephew that you would’ve have liked to receive yourself at their ages?
I think sometimes I overload them with advice and words of wisdom. [laughs] I think a running mantra in my home and with my students is “the decisions we make today determine the man or woman that you become tomorrow.”
"I BELIEVE THAT EVERYTHING IN MY CAREER AND IN LIFE HAS PREPARED ME TO WALK IN MY DESTINY."
Oooooo I like that.
I try to encourage them to think about the bigger picture. Think about how each day, each action, each decision is getting closer or further away from the person you see yourself as or see yourself becoming. For the last maybe 5 years I’ve done vision boards with my students and with my kids. I make it a point to have S.M.A.R.T. goals with a plan on how to achieve them More so, I try to encourage them to be critical thinkers and self-sufficient I feel like if I can be a living demonstration of a person who plans, analyzes, and moves forward with intentionality then they will follow, and I have done a great job
You definitely sound like a parent. [laughs] Who and or what inspires you to get up and continue the amazing work you’re doing?
Every Black woman who has and desires to walk in her truth inspires me. Every Black man who fights and who needs to be fought for inspires me. As long as there’s progress that needs to be made, I will keep using the platform that I have been given to cultivate a space for us.
With your various intersections how do you see the world?
I see the world as map of possibilities. It is a place where we can come and be and do, almost, whatever we please. While there are challenges in the world, I think the greatest think that any individual can do is make an impact I mean if you’re not here to leave your footprint in the sand, then what are you here for?
Do you believe you’ve found your calling with being a teacher and an advocate?
I believe that I served my purpose as a classroom teacher I believe that everything in my career and in life has prepared me to walk in my destiny As a new counselor I am learning a new part of me I am in a new season of my life and I truly believe that it is indeed all a part of the ultimate purpose and plan for my life I know that I am called to do what I am doing and that this is only the beginning
"I journal, I meditate, I drink a lot of wine, and take very long hot showers."
What is it you’d say to people who are reading this interview?
Live your life with purpose Be intentional with all that you do We are all given the opportunity to make an impact the question is how you will do it My lessons come from the experiences that I shared. Here are a few:
Before you look for love in someone else, be love and fully understand how to love yourself. The way you treat yourself is the way you will treat others. Never be afraid to fall in love. Fear and love cannot exist in the same space. Neither can fear and success.
Pay attention to what makes your heart smile and what makes your spirit uneasy.
Know who you are and what you need. If you can’t fully articulate those things in love and kindness, then you aren’t ready for a healthy partnership.
Uncover Unveil Cultivate And grow If it doesn’t work, don’t be afraid to let go, heal, and start over
Well my friend, thank you very for agreeing to this do. And to everyone for joining us all in Season 02 of the Modern Queer.
