PHOTOGRAPHER’S GALLERY —INTERVIE WITH BRETT ROGERS 攝影師畫廊
—專訪布雷特·羅傑斯 TEXT BY 撰文 x XXX 空缺
TRANSLATED BY 翻譯 x CHEN TING 陳婷
Art.Zip: Your background is Art History, and then further study photography, is it? Why photography is so special for you?
Brett Rogers: When I began my academic career in Australia in the 1970s, there were no places to study the history or theory of photography – even when I arrived in
Britain to do my MA at the Courtauld Institute of Art in 1980, I still was not able to
focus on photography; it is really only in the last decade that the academic study of
Arario Beijing Memento Mori -Installation View The Photographers’ Gallery at 16- 18 Ramillies Street 2012 © Kate Elliott Courtesy The Photographers’ Gallery
photography as part of art history has become available as an option for students. Photography has been very special to me since my adolescence. As I grew up in
Australia I felt the importance of the medium as a carrier of meaning perhaps more acutely because of the tyranny of distance.
ART.ZIP：你之前讀的是藝術史，然後專攻攝影是嗎？攝影對你來說有什麼特別之處嗎？ BRET T
ROGERS：20世紀70年代的時候我在澳大利亞開展我的學術研究，當時並沒有任何院校
能提 供攝影史或攝影理論這樣的相關學科，即使到了80年代，我在英國考陶德藝術學院讀碩士 的時候也沒有，所以在當時的環境下我還沒有途徑專門研究攝影；直到過去十年，攝影才成為藝 術史的一部分被納入學術課程。從少年時起我就覺得攝影很特別，可能因為我在澳大利亞長大， 那種距離的束縛讓我特別能夠理解攝影作為意義載體的重要性。 ART. ZIP：相機現在變得隨手可得了，每 一 個人都能拍照片，你覺得攝影對大眾文化產生了什麼 樣的影響呢？好的和壞的又各有什麼呢？
BRET T ROGERS：拍照手機的出現讓所有人都認為自己就是攝影師，這樣有積極的一面但也不能
Art.Zip: Camera nowadays is much
more affordable than the past, everyone could take pictures, what would you say
photography’s effect on mass culture? Good ones and bad ones?
Brett Rogers: The evolution of the camera
phone which has led to everyone believing they are a photographer has had positive as well as negative outcomes – clearly
the fact that photography has become
democratized so that nearly everyone has
access to a camera (rather than a small elite who previously could afford the expensive
cameras and cost of printing) is a good thing. It enables people to develop their visual
awareness of the world and experiment in
interesting ways in the production of images. On the other hand, it has also resulted in a tsunami of images which are never going to be stored, saved properly or printed.
Some critics feel that this surfeit of images
neutralizes their visual impact and emotional force and leads to compassion fatigue. There is no doubt that the impact of the network
image and web 2.0 has led to a reassessment
of the way in which personal subjectivity may be changing as a result of participation in the global image economy and what level and
kind of engagement now constitute its value and meaning.
Art.Zip: What would you see the future or
trend of photography? Is it becoming much prosperous or have gone downhill?
Brett Rogers: If this question concerns trends within the commercial market, then yes
compared to the 1970/80s, photographers who operate within the contemporary art
排除消極的影響。首先很明顯的，攝影變得民主化 了，幾乎所有人都可以擁有一台相機－－而不像以 前那 樣 只有一小部分 的精英才 能 負擔 得起 昂貴的 相機和沖洗照片－－這是好的方面。這有助於人們 發 展 視 覺 上 對 世界 的 認 知，利 用各 種 有趣 的 方 式 來製作圖像。但另一方面，這種海量的圖像沖擊導 致照片沒有被合理地保存，保管或沖洗 。有些評論 家認為這種 過 量的圖片生 產 減 弱了它們應有的視 覺 和 情感 沖 擊，最 終 導 致 人們 視 覺 疲 勞 和 熱 情不 再。不可質疑的是，網絡圖像的影響和WEB 2.0時
market are definitely more prosperous than they have ever
Mark Neville Ben Bursting a Balloon, 2011 150 x 180 cm, c-type print © Mark Neville Courtesy of the artist
been – e.g. Jeff Wall, Andreas Gursky, Cindy Sherman. “Straight’ photographers have also benefitted from the rise in art market interest in the medium – thanks also to the promotional strategies of specialist galleries e.g. Fraenkel, Greenberg,
Hamiltons and the emergence of photofairs such as Paris Photo. For the majority of young and emerging photographers, getting a foothold within the market remains highly competitive and very hard – many struggle to find representation especially in London where there are very few commercial galleries
代讓我們不得不重新評估個人主體性的變化，因為參與全球性圖像經濟 的程度及方式直接影響了主體性的價值與意義。
specializing solely in photography, and find they need to pursue
ART. ZIP：你認為攝 影的未 來方向是什麼呢？現今攝 影算是越 來越繁榮
their work.
BRET T ROGERS： 如果從商業市場前景來說的話，那麼答案是肯定的，
other ends (teaching, editorial work etc) to earn a living from
Art.Zip: You have engaged in photography for a long time, any interesting stories about photography to share? Any views on photography have changed?
Brett Rogers: Photography has changed enormously in the
40 years I have been involved – there is now a fundamental awareness of the importance of photography’s critical role
within the world – I see it almost as ‘wallpaper’ that links nearly
everything of great importance together in our understanding of the world. Photography changes everything.
呢，還是有點走下坡呢？
相比於七、八十年代，攝影師在當代藝術市場上肯定比以前要好很多，譬 如潔夫·沃爾（JEFF WALL） ，安傑斯·古斯奇(ANDREAS GURSKY)，仙蒂· 雪兒曼(CINDY SHERMAN)。 “如實攝影（STRAIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY）” 的 攝 影 師 也 同 樣 因 為 這 種 媒 介在藝 術 市 場 的 興 起 而 受 益 ，還 有多 得 各 種攝影畫廊的宣傳策略吧，像法蘭克爾畫廊（FRAENKEL 豪沃德·格林博格畫廊（HOWARD 畫廊（HAMILTONS
GREENBERG
GALLERY），
GALLERY），漢密頓斯
GALLERY）等，還有就是像巴黎攝影博覽會（PARIS
PHOTO）這類攝影博覽會的出現也促使攝影產業蓬勃發展。 對於大部分年輕和新生代攝影師，在市場上能站一席之地還是非常難的，
Art.Zip: How would you define a good photographic work?
很多人都在爭取找畫廊代理，尤其是在倫敦，很少商業畫廊會
offers repeated viewing, that operates on more than one level, which is
自己，譬如教學、編輯工作等等。
Brett Rogers: That’s nearly impossible to define – but for me it is a work that multilayered and retains a degree of ambiguity.
Art.Zip: The Photographers’ Gallery was founded in 1971, what’s the
intention of the establishment? What are the changes during these 42
years? What is the future direction of the gallery? Could you name some programs?
Brett Rogers: When it was founded in 1971, the main intention was to promote photography as an art form. At that time most people only
understood photography as a mass media tool of communication rather
只做攝影作品代 理，所以攝影師們都需要幹別的工作來養活
ART. ZIP：你已經從事攝影工作這麼多年了，這些年來你對攝
影的看法和與過去有發生什麼大的變化嗎？有什麼有趣的故 事可以分享嗎？ BRET T
ROGERS：在我從事攝影的過去40年裡，攝影確實發
生了天翻地覆的變 化，現在人們終於從根本上意識 到攝影對 世界產生的重要作用，我會把它比作像“壁紙”，它把我們認識 世界的每樣重要事物都連接在一起。攝影改變了一切。
than a vehicle for creative expression. Through our 40 years the Gallery has
ART.ZIP：你如何定義一件好的攝影作品？
expanded field – not just as in its applied or functional form (advertising,
的攝影作品能讓你重複地觀看，並提供多種解讀的可能性，能
endeavored to promote an understanding of photography’s use across an fashion), but its capacity to be operate outside the frame and alongside
other media such as drawing, sculpture, collage and as an integral part of
BRET T ROGERS：這個幾乎無法定義，但是對我來說，一件好 保持一種開放性討論的就是一件好作品。
contemporary art.
ART. ZIP：畫 廊在1971年成立，當時創始人 建立畫 廊的初衷
Art.Zip: The Gallery has been through two years redevelopment (2010-
什麼樣的改 變呢？畫廊未 來發展的方向是什麼呢？能推 薦一
2012), apart from more spacious space and well-designed interior to
control the light, will it go to a new direction or any new programmes have been added?
Brett Rogers: We are delighted the Gallery has had a chance to create a
purpose–built new space in which to provide both artists and the public the spaces required to show and appreciate photography in the 21st
century. Our future intentions are to build on the new location and take
photography out into the street by developing a public realm programme in Ramillies Street to attract a new audience off Oxford Street.
是什麼呢？經過42年的發展，現在畫廊的立意與最初有發生 些項目嗎？
BRET T ROGERS：畫廊在1971年成立，當年的主要目的就是促 進攝影作為一種藝 術 形式 來發展。當時 很多人都只把攝影 看 作一種大眾媒介溝通的工具，而不是創意表達的手法。 40年 來畫廊已經通過不懈努力使得攝影的使用在更廣泛的領域得 到認同，不僅僅是其應用或功能形式上，例如廣告攝影、時尚 攝影，而是攝影的應用不再局限於鏡頭內外，並且與其他媒介 相結合，譬如繪畫、雕塑、拼貼，攝影真正成 為當代藝術一 個 不可分割的部分。
Art.Zip: The Gallery’s annual photography prize is in its 17th year, what
ART. ZIP：畫廊 經 歷了兩年的重建（2010 -2012），除了空間
difference from other photography awards? What kind of support will
展新方向呢？增加了什麼新項目嗎？
is your judging standard? Any changes through these years? What is the the winner receive?
Brett Rogers: The Deutsche Börse Prize is now in its 7th year – the previous 10 years were supported by Citibank. There have been 2 changes over the past 17 years – we reduced the number of candidates from 5 to 4 in 2006
and also broadened the prize to include publications as well as exhibitions. The difference from other prizes is that the criteria for the winner (who
擴 展到三層和特殊設 計來控制室內光線以外，畫廊有什麼發 BRET T
ROGERS：我們很高興畫廊有機會建成一個為藝術家
和大眾使 用而特別打造的新空間，給大家展示和欣賞21世紀 的 攝 影 。我 們 未 來 的 規 劃 是 要 在 這個 新 據 點 把 攝 影 帶 到 街 頭，在拉米利斯大街（RAMILLIES
STREET）發展公共項目吸
引牛津街上的新觀眾。
receives £30,000) is the individual who has made the most significant
ART.ZIP：畫廊的年度攝影獎已經進行了17年了，你們的評判
achievement award; nor is it based around any one particular theme.
獎者會受到怎樣的支持和幫助呢？
contribution to photography over the past 12 months – it is not a lifetime
Art.Zip: We notice that you have education programs, what are they?
Brett Rogers: We have a wide range of education programmes designed
to meet the needs of everyone from enthusiasts with little knowledge of the medium to those professionals who are academically or vocationally involved in photography – everything from practical skills development
and workshops (Stumped/The Social), artists panel to Masterclasses and our Key Speakers series. We also have a separate series of educational events
標準有發生什麼變化嗎？和其他攝 影 獎項有什麼不同嗎？獲 BRET T ROGERS：德意志攝影獎（THE DEUTSCHE BÖRSE PR I Z E）已 經 邁 進 第七個 年頭 了，在 此 之前10 年 的 年度 攝 影 獎 是由花旗銀 行（CIT IBANK）所支持。過去17年間我們經 歷 了兩個重要的變化，
我們在2006年把5位候選人名額改為
4位，而加大了獎 勵的力度，包括為得獎者出版圖冊和舉 辦展 覽。這個獎項與別的攝影獎的不同之處就是得獎者的評判標 準：在 過去12個 月內對 攝影作出重 大 貢 獻的個人－－得 獎 者 將會得到30 0 0 0 鎊的獎 勵－－這不是一 個 終生 成 就 獎，也不
John Hinde On the Road to Keem Strand, Achill Island, Ireland © John Hinde Collection / John Hinde Ltd
aimed at young people, families and children.
是關於任何主題的獎項。
Art.Zip: How would you say the Gallery’s
ART. ZIP：我留意到你們會有一 些關於攝 影的教育項
Brett Rogers: The Gallery is the only publicly funded
BRET T ROGERS：我們設立了有各種類型的教育項目
significance and distinctiveness?
specialist gallery for photography in London so
provides those interested in learning more about
the medium to see, explore and enjoy photography through a varied range of exhibitions, events
and workshops. Our reputation for high quality,
innovation, access and showing the best-known
newcomers in the world of photography are cited
目，都有哪些呢？
來 滿 足 大 家 的 需 求 ，從 只 對 攝 影 有一 點了解 的 攝 影 愛 好 者，到 從 事 學 術 研 究 或 從 事 攝 影工作 的 專 業 人 員，所有從 實際操作 技巧、工作坊（S T UMPED／ T HE SOCIAL項目），藝術家小組，大師講座，到我們的主講 師系列（KEY SPEAKERS）。我們也有單獨的系列教育 活動來針對年輕人、家庭和兒童這些群體。
by our audience as the reasons they visit.
AR T. ZIP：對 於 推 動 攝 影 的發展，你 們 是 如 何定位自
Art.Zip: What kind of projects or programmes that
BRET T ROGERS：畫廊是倫敦唯一一家由公共資金支
show your support to emerging photographers?
Could you tell us about the FreshFace+WildEyed programme and Folio Forum? Or any others you would recommend?
Brett Rogers: Supporting emerging artists is a
critical part of both our education and exhibition
己在攝影界的重要性和獨特性？
持、只專注 於攝 影 的畫 廊，我們為那些有興 趣 學習更 多關於攝影這種媒介的人提 供各式各樣的展覽、活動 和工作 坊，讓 他 們 發 掘 、探 索 和享受 攝 影。來 訪 畫 廊 的觀眾表示，畫廊以高質、創新、及大膽展示新生代攝 影師作品而使他們慕名前來。
programme – FFWE is designed to offer support to
A R T. Z I P：對 於 支 持 新 生代 攝 影 師 你 們 有什 麼 具 體
year and are beginning to identify the lack of critical
FOLIO FORUM嗎？
graduates who have been out of college for one
engagement as a barrier to the further development of their practice. In addition to offering an exhibition to 22-25 artists at the gallery each summer, 6 artists are then offered an opportunity to participate in a one year intense mentoring programme.
Folio Forum (recently retitled STUMPED) and The Social which focuses on a vocational issue (using social media/writing funding application) also
provides practical advice in an informal context (free of charge) to artists 4-5 times per year.
的項目呢？能 說 說 FR E SH FACE+W ILD E Y E D 項目和 BRET T
ROGERS：支持新生代藝術家是我們教
育 和 展 覽 項 目 裡 非 常 重 要 的 一 環 ，F F W E － － FRESHFACE+WIDEEYED是為畢業一年的學生提供支 持的項目，因為畢業以後 他們很可能錯過一些重要的 專業參與，而這些缺失為他們進一步發展造成了嚴重 的障礙。因此，除了每年夏天給22-25歲的藝術家在畫 廊進行展覽的機會以外，其中被挑選的六位藝術家還 有機會參與為期一年的有針對性的指導項目。 FOLIO
FORUM（最近被改名為STUMPED）和THE
SOCIAL項目著重於職業發展問題（譬如如何利用社交 媒體，如何申請基金援助等），每年進行4 -5次 免費給 藝術家提供實際操作建議的活動。