VALERIO: Is that because stereotypes come
artists in Ohio called the May Show. If you won
into play?
a prize, all of a sudden you became someone
BROOKER: Absolutely. Women are understood
as painting in a particular way. African Americans are understood as painting in a particular way. White men are not understood as painting in any particular way. They can paint any damn way that they want! That’s the art world. That’s what you have to fight against all the time.
in the show my second year, I won the first prize in painting. I couldn’t make enough work to sell! People were coming out of the woodwork. GOLD: Were the collectors mostly in Ohio, or national? BROOKER: They were mostly in Ohio. Then a guy
by the name of Ray Frost Fleming who had the
VALERIO: Artists such as Charles Searles or
Robert Kidd Gallery in Birmingham, Michigan, came
Barbara Bullock or Martina Johnson-Allen have
down and saw my work at the museum. He offered
made art that they intend for people to read as
me a show at his gallery, and it completely sold out.
emerging from an African American tradition.
All of a sudden, prices for my work went up.
That’s a very different strategy from what we are discussing. Left: Trilogy; above: Zawditu, both 2014, by Martina JohnsonAllen (Collection of the artist)
whose work people began to notice. After being
Corporations like the Ford Motor Company bought things. Hotels bought things. It was amazing. Kent
BROOKER: “African American” and “African” are
State University was calling me to give talks and
very different. Charles and Barbara and Martina are
lectures. American Greetings called me and wanted
all feeding off an African history that’s part of their
me to show their artists how to do abstraction!
own heritage, but that also remains at a distance.
I was also asked to show at Ruth Siegel Gallery
They are using history as a way to convey images
in New York in 1982, which went very well, so I
came out of the WPA—at all. Those works were in
BROOKER: I think people want to perceive
and issues that they want to talk about. But they’re
continued to show in New York for several years. All
his personal collection and were never shown. Right
immediately that a work is by an African American
not making African works.
of this happened based on that one exposure at the
before he died, he came to one of my shows and
artist. I ask, why? Is it important that it’s a work
told me that he still had a whole collection of work.
of art first, or is it important that it’s an African
GOLD: You taught in Cleveland for ten years,
American work of art first? There seems to be a
but your family was still in Philadelphia and you
I had arrived at a point where I was very happy and
need for identification that then determines what
essentially commuted. That’s a long commute.
satisfied with life. My work just exploded. There
the viewer’s response to the work is going to be. It
What is it about Philadelphia that made you want
were two times in my life when that happened. First,
alters the thought. I think that’s a dilemma that has
to retain the city as your home? Why not just move
when I won the prize in Cleveland, and then again
to be faced.
to Cleveland? Was it the circle of colleagues you’ve
when I came back here to Philadelphia. The day I
been describing?
came back to Philadelphia and met Cheryl, my life
VALERIO: I wish we could see this work. Do you
know Charles Jay, the painter who lives in Morton, Pennsylvania? BROOKER: I think he’s a very fine painter. I’m
touched by some of his work.
MCCAY: I think the same thing occurs when you try
VALERIO: The reason I ask is because, as a
to subsume the work of women artists into a falsely
BROOKER: I had a residence in Cleveland, but my
museum, Woodmere always makes a point of having
established category. People will often say, “Look
family was here. My son was here. Cleveland was
works by African American artists on view. We don’t
at her decorative sense,” as if being decorative is an
important because being there opened doors.
necessarily write on the label that it’s by an African
innate quality that women possess.
But I didn’t expect to be in Cleveland for a long
American artist. Sometimes you can perceive it, and sometimes you can’t, as with Jay’s work.
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WOODMERE ART MUSEUM
time; that’s why I maintained a residence here. The BROOKER: Yes, I think the same can sometimes be
said for the perception of female artists.
Cleveland Museum of Art used to have a show for
Cleveland Museum of Art.
changed. My work changed at that point, too. It became very different and exciting for me, and a lot of it had to do with her. She made a difference. It makes a difference when someone you love believes in what you’re doing. It opens doors to the imagination. I tell her that all the time. She doesn’t quite believe me, but it’s true. Even now, I’ll work
WE SPEAK: Black Artists in Philadelphia, 1920s–1970s
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