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Jewish Theological Seminary of America ​good morning hi I'm Michael la solanco I'm the interim dean of the Maxwell school Syracuse University and along with will Freeman who's the president of public agenda I thank you for being with us today I'd like to enough knowledge a few special guests who were with us today Louis or Venus Venus is the president of the Ford Foundation Mitch Wallerstein who is the my predecessor gain at the vegetable school is here is now president of baruch college and i'd like to acknowledge the generous support of louise and Bernard pilots unfortunately they could not be with us today but but they have funded this for a policy breakfast for five years now and it's met with some great success I'd also like to thank the ford foundation for providing us with this beautiful home for our breakfast series and the incoming Dean of the Maxwell school Jim Steinberg who is now deputy estepa T Secretary of the US State Department is told me to send his regards to all of you he will be coming in July and starting a job and I'm looking forward to working with him paola me introduce our gifted interviewer Robert Siegel was the senior host of National Public Radio's all things considered Roberts also been with us from the beginning of this policy breakfast series he's an award-winning journalist with a national public radio for over three decades he started his professional radio right here in New York at WR vr radio following graduation from Columbia University and stuyvesant high school Robert has reported from all over the world on every issue you can imagine and no one does it better than he does we're very fortunate to have him as a regular moderator for our series and now let me turn it over to you Robert and you can introduce David Brooks thank thank you my uh hi I guess my mic is on it's rather brother shrill I should explain that before David Brooks became a columnist for The New York Times and before he became mark shields partner on the PBS news hour on fridays he was a regular friday guest on NPR as often is considered and for more years than I can recall I have been sharing in the duties of capping up wrapping up the week in politics with David Brooks and his partner EJ Dionne who've been there forever it's been a great fun for me to look forward to on friday every week it's also been my pleasure to read david's columns in the times before that his articles in the Weekly Standard and in the Atlantic and also his books one of which we'll talk about a bit today the most recent one social animal my other favorite as you just point out the about the bobos the bourgeois Bohemians it's a phrase that hasn't caught on as well as the red state blue state red state paradigm that David wrote about of for the Atlantic but if we were in France with all be talking with a bow bow all the time david david has contributed a term to French public discourse and I actually saw a very funny music video about it the other day David Brooks is a graduate of university of chicago he grew up but he was born in toronto but grew up in part right down here in stuyvesant town where I grew up and then went to high school near Philadelphia where he gained a great deal of material that he cited in many in many books and columns he is one of the most insightful and I think surprising columnist writing today if not the most and too many readers one of the most frustrating because conservative readers can understand why isn't more conservative and the liberal readers cannot understand why he's conservative in the first place perhaps he can shed a little bit of light on this as he is now our guest for this Maxwell breakfast David please join me can I can I describe my french book tour in 30 seconds yes so I get there this was for lado bo and I they asked me to pose naked in a bathtub full of milk for French vote which I said no to and then I my talk show on taffa one of the french big stations and they decided I'm so boring at they one of the rock bands I'm on with during the show gets off gets under the table and starts taking off my shoes and socks while I'm talking and then another I feel a hand reaching up my shirt unbuttoning my buttons one at a time I just keep babbling on but like David Hasselhoff I'm bigger and Frandsen so we said one of the moments that contributed to your your insight in the social animal that perhaps we're not such reasonable rational creature as we think in reps were guided by more emotional and less controlled imposes now that that came I I came to writing about emotion strictly through the studies so I came by my reason led me to emotion and my wife jokes that me writing a book about emotion is like Gandhi writing a book about gluttony it's not my natural thing and I've I told Robert that joke at NPR so I'm very I'm repeating it here it's long enough LOL it's been another long endeth the other apocryphal brain research director if I mentioned this it's in the book which is they took a bunch of middle-aged guys put him in an fMRI machine and had them just have them watch a horror movie and then had them describe their feelings toward their wives and in both cases the brain scans were exactly the same sheer terror so I get that but essentially you know there's just been this revolution and understanding of ourselves and in 1995 according to a friend of mine who's a neuroscientist named Antonio Damasio they had no panels among at the big conventions on emotion and now I'd say about half or two-thirds of the panel or an emotion and that's because
they've understand in large part because of DiMaggio's work the sensuality to emotion that we have this idea that emotions over here and reason is over here and that when one is up the others down and there's operat and actually last week I was at Harvard debating some neuro scientist and a lot of them still have this instinct they knew it rationally that emotion is the foundation for reason but they have trouble putting the two systems together but basically what emotion does is it assigns value to things it tells you what you want when you look at something you you will react with a desire for it or an aversion to it with an admiration for it or contempt to it and if you don't have that emotional repertoire then you can't make rational decisions and one of DiMaggio's patients suffered lesions in the part of the brain that processes emotion and they were not super smart they were incapable of making decisions because they didn't know what they wanted and so the the fundamental factor is that the things deep in our brain which are the emotional parts assigned value to things and what we have to do in life is not only think rationally but before that we have to educate our emotions through poetry music sports and the more you make your emotional responses subtle and wide the repertoire of your emotions the more rational you're going to be not less now I should explain that that you're the current book the social animal the new book in it you you create a fictional couple and their parents and trace them through their lives and and as things happen you cite the neuro scientists and the psychologist and the sociologists and the explaining what's going on and how these people are really acting in ways that are far more far less out of their immediate conscious control than we might think and the point being that describes us when we talked about the book I asked you how this had affected your reporting as you increasingly been moved to write this through seeing the failure of much more rational actor model as if al we and we behave so if we would very carefully read your mind your columns over the past decade would we see you actually writing about politics and and conservatism differently say ten years ago then now as you as you become more immersed in yeah I think so I mean it grew out of policy failures I you know I covered the Soviet Union which was probably the best story I recovered and we sent teams of economists into Russia and they weak arm them with private zation plans and hard currency plans assuming their fundamental problems were all economic but the fundamental problem there was a lack of social trust which meant they stole everything and so we were oblivious to that so covering that I said you know we're missing the core problem been in Iraq which was a big trauma for a lot of us you know we sent the military and were oblivious to the psychological effects of living and the cultural realities of Iraq and I once asked a senior member of the Bush administration I can't tell you who she was but it was and I said didn't you guys kind of get the culture of a rock wrong and this person said well I don't really believe in this mushy thing called culture I think of you changed institutions you change the culture and that is actually the right political science answer but it happens not to be the right one and then so i would say in the last couple months or years the financial crisis if you if you're immersed in this work it does not surprise you that bankers are not prudent rational creatures that will always ask act intelligently because you see how emotional contagions can sweep through a profession and cause people to miss price risk at the same time and then if you cover this stuff you'll see how much how an emotional contagion can sweep through the Middle East and cause them to change perceptions but then fundamentally the thing that has really affected well there are two areas that affected my column the most one is different thinking about density I wrote a book about the suburbs celebrating the fast-growing suburbs now I appreciate the importance of density face-to-face communication I said in the book a University of Michigan study they took one group of people gave him ten minutes to solve a math problem and said you can do a trace to face they gave other groups 30 minutes to solve the problem they said you have to communicate by email so group a with the face to face easily solve the plant problems Group B by email could not solve them because so much of our communication is face to face by intonation of voice and things like that and if you look at patent results when people submit a patent application they submit all the other patents that contributed to their innovation and an astounding number of these were invented by in who lived within 25 miles of the original person we live from we learn from the people we are right around so importance of density and then the final thing which is most important to me is human capital formation and that we tend to emphasize when we're raising our kids are thinking about you in capital we think about years in school grades s80 scores professional skills but the things that really matter are your ability to establish a connection with a teacher your ability to control your impulses your ability to establish social relationships with peers to feel emotionally connected to an institution all those things are trained unconsciously but you're using culture here interchangeably with the phenomena that you're that you're describing we don't examine culture by using MRIs or by HEPA maybe but maybe we will someday or you know by taking a survey is that the same thing that you're talking about are you talking with something more more hardwired into us and two are so right now no well I don't think there's a distinction we have one of the big findings the researchers how much of our processing goes on unconsciously and so the human mind can take in about 12 million pieces of information a minute of which it can be consciously aware of 40 and so how do we process all that stuff unconsciously
some of it some of the information that helps us come process it is come through genetics and that's information that comes to us from thousands of years ago but I don't think that's fundamentally different than the information that came to us from hundreds of years ago or thousands of years ago which we call culture and so we're not aware of the many ways culture shapes our perceptions a couple quick experiments somebody had the bright idea of looking at people having coffee in different cultures around the world and looking how often the people having coffee reached across the table and touched each other affectionately while they were talking and in Rio I think there were 180 touches an hour and in Paris I did go to 120 touches an hour and in London there were zero touches a nap and so we don't think about that but there's and then the other another quick experiment they took a look pic look at people from around the world looking at the Mona Lisa and they measured their I saccades the little eye movements we use to scan and people from China their eyes were going all up and down the picture and people from the US our eyes were looking at the eyes and the mouth of the Mona Lisa and nothing else and so we scan the world differently based on culture but it's all unconscious so there are a lot of different flows into the unconscious but you know the the the implicit menace in more sophisticated we get in terms of social science and and studies about what determines how will behave is it's a threat to the liberal instinct that we are all perfectible and that we are all equally capable of achieving great things if indeed if we attribute so much to our culture to our you write a code about parenting how we've related to our parents and our our first few months the impulse to to track to profile to young people into a future becomes that much greater and supported by science respond yeah well the science puts bounds on free will there's limits to it but it doesn't go away in part because as I mentioned we have the power to educate our emotions we have a power to to decide what context we're going to live in we can join the Marines or go to college and we won't be aware of how those institutions shape us but they will shape us we choose our environment and then most importantly the brain is incredibly plastic all through life and so one of the things that dwell on in the book is scientist the University of Minnesota did this fantastic longitudinal study and found they could take kids at 18 months see how they were looking how they related to mom and they could predict was seventy-seven percent accuracy who's going to graduate from high school because if it 18 months you've established a two-way relationship with mom you not only have that relationship you have a model in your head for how to establish relationship so when you go to school you'll know how to establish relationship with teacher and you just have a huge advantage but nonetheless but nothing that happens at 18 months or 20 years or 40 years or 60 years locks you in we if you they have a mentor at age 10 that can make up for early deficiencies and so all through life even up to age 70 the brain is creating new neurons and experience is having an effect so it limits free will but it certainly doesn't you know did I say something I don't know when neurons did it it's up to 90 but 1990s the new 70 I in tears there say there's a prust when he was dying got up from his death better actually did couldn't get up but he dictated a new death scene in one of his books because he said ah this is how it is and he wanted to read Sotheby's Institute of Art.
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