Appendix M Other Correspondence and Public Comment
January 26, 2015
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Press and Community Forum Comments
January 26, 2015
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Press and Community Forum Articles and Comments Jacksonville Business Journal Jacksonville Business Journal online Fernandina Beach News leader MetroJacksonville Articles and Comments Jacksonville Business Journal MetroJacksonville MetroJacksonville
“Investing in Our Region’s Future”
February 22, 2013
“Investing in Our Region’s Future: Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan” “We build this city”
October 4, 2013
“Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments?”
December 6, 2013
“State may give us a regional transportation commission”
September 17, 2014
“Public Meeting on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan “Do you care about the future of transit in Jax”
April 18, 2014 June 2, 2014
February 3, 2013
State may give us a regional transportation commission - Jacksonville Business Journal
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This was printed from Jacksonville Business Journal
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State may give us a regional transportation commission
Carole Hawkins Reporter- Jacksonville Business Journal Email | Google+ The Florida Legislature could in the next few months create a regional transportation commission for Northeast Florida. Legislators filed companion bills in both the state House and Senate to create the new agency following a regional transportation study that gave recommendations. The new commission would address transportation issues — such as long commute times — as a region, instead of as disparate, competing counties. It could also more easily secure competitive state and federal dollars for projects than could counties acting alone. If created, the commission would put the Jacksonville area on par with Tampa, Central Florida/Orlando, South Florida/Miami, and Northwest Florida, which already have regional transportation organizations. “Today, there’s a lot of intra-county travel here,” said Brad Thoburn, vice president of long-range planning, capital programs and system development for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority. “Five out of seven counties we studied are in the top 25 percent statewide for commute time. It’s becoming a crisis.”
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State may give us a regional transportation commission - Jacksonville Business Journal
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Population trends are driving the longer commutes. In the past decade, combined growth in the surrounding counties of St. Johns, Clay and Nassau was nearly double that of Duval. “Connectivity can be important to businesses, so they have access to a large pool of labor,” Thoburn said. The new commission would be filled by four appointees from Duval County and one representative each from Clay, Putnam, Nassau, St. Johns and Baker counties. If it fails to secure support in the form of project funding within five years, the commission would sunset. See the transportation study recommendations online at http://www.northfloridartsc.com. Q&A with Regional Transportation Study Commission Members Robert Rhodes, Attorney and chairman of governance and funding for the Regional Transportation Study Commission. A transportation study back in 1987 recommended the creation of a five-county authority. Why has Northeast Florida taken so long to act? Regionalism is just tough. You have to get local officials to look beyond their horizons. I think for a long time local governments had not figured out how they were going to deal with Jacksonville, and vice versa. We don’t really have a choice — this is how we’re going to compete for funding. Brad Thoburn, Project director of the Regional Transportation Study Commission Wouldn’t the new commission duplicate the work of the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization? The TPO performs a different function. It’s a board that was federally created to set priorities for the use of federal funds. The new commission would plan development in coordination with them, but would also use regional resources to leverage state and federal funds. By the Numbers: Travel time in minutes to work in Northeast Florida: • 31.5 Clay County
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State may give us a regional transportation commission - Jacksonville Business Journal
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• 23.2 Duval County • 23.5 St. Johns County
SOURCE: U.S. Census Bureau Carole covers logistics and transportation, technology and manufacturing Industries: Logistics & Transportation
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2013
Global TRADE & TRANSPORTATION
OCT. 4-10, 2013
SUPPLEMENT TO THE BUSINESS JOURNAL
Symposium
2013
Global TRADE & TRANSPORTATION
Symposium
T
he North Florida TPO is pleased to sponsor the eighth annual Global Trade and Transportation Symposium. We extend our thanks to presenters Doug Davidson, Commercial Banking Market Executive for North & Central Florida, Bank of America; Brian Taylor, JAXPORT CEO and our panelists Daniel Davis, President and CEO, JAX Chamber; Ananth Prasad, Secretary, Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) and Bob Rhodes, Regional Transportation Study Commission moderated by our North Florida TPO Executive Director, Jeff Sheffield.
The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization (TPO) is the independent transportation planning agency for our region. We plan, fund and mobilize resources needed to develop and maintain our transportation system. One of our key roles is setting priorities for transportation investments.
Investing In Our Region’s Future: Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan Hundreds of years ago, North Florida began as a hub for commerce and transportation. In fact, our region includes some of our nation’s first ports, cities and roads. This transportation system shaped our past. Now it is time for us to forge a path to our future. A path that fosters livable, sustainable communities and economic development. A path to mobility, accessibility and safety for all our citizens. A path that will address challenges we face today and meet the needs of generations to come. Every five years, the TPO updates the region’s Long Range Transportation Plan (LRTP) to address road, transit, freight, bike and pedestrian needs over the next 20-25 years. Transportation projects must be included in the LRTP to receive federal funding. The North Florida TPO is developing the Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan through detailed technical analysis and collaboration among governments, transportation agencies, citizens, businesses, special needs stakeholders and other interested parties in Baker, Clay, Duval, Nassau, Putnam and St. Johns counties. The plan will be completed fall 2014. Transportation investments we plan today must reflect changing needs and trends in our communities, country and the world. By the year 2040 we will have nearly two million residents in North Florida. How will the region change and congestion grow? Will people want to live, work and shop
where they do today? To what extent will fuel costs, air quality and reduced funding change the way we travel? Join us as we consider these questions and more. Visit www. pathforward2040.com to sign up for our e-news and meeting announcements, share your needs and priorities by playing the asset allocation game, submit comments and ask questions. Check out our event calendar to learn about upcoming presentations and public workshops. We are also scheduling meetings with business and civic groups so please contact us at info@pathforward2040.com or call (904) 306-7500 to arrange a meeting with your organization. Since the North Florida TPO is planning for a 20-year time horizon, it’s important that future users and investors have the opportunity to provide input in developing the 2040 LRTP. Students from around the region are participating in our Transportation Tomorrow competition - writing essays, creating model cities and simulations, and producing videos representing their future visions for transportation in North Florida. Visit pathforward2040.com for updates on their progress.
17
18
Supplement to the Business Journal
North Florida TPO
OCT. 4-10, 2013
Investing In Our Economy: North Florida Business Alliance for Advancing Transportation As our economy begins to recover, business leaders in our region have expressed concern that regional growth patterns, increasing commute times and lengths, and congestion on major corridors are straining our infrastructure and reducing our ability to compete in the state, national and global marketplace. To address these issues, the North Florida TPO is assisting chambers of commerce in forming the North Florida Business Alliance for Advancing Transportation. Moody Chisholm, CEO of St. Vincent’s Healthcare and Alliance Chair, is leading the charge in bringing our region’s business leaders together to provide a strong and consistent voice in transportation issues.
Why Do We Need a Business Alliance? Chronic funding gaps, aging infrastructure, declining tax revenues and budget shortfalls coupled
with political reluctance to raise taxes has had severe economic impacts locally and across the United States. Competing regions have formed business transportation alliances to focus their efforts and become more competitive in seeking limited funding. We must work together to remain competitive and advance regional transportation initiatives and policy through business leader advocacy.
Alliances Deliver Results In North Carolina, the Regional Transportation Alliance (RTA) serves as the recognized business voice for transportation initiatives and policy across the Research Triangle. They focus on solutions to decrease commuting times, expand mobility options, improve shipping efficiency, and attract and retain top business talent. The RTA’s successes include initiating an interstate widening project that unclogged the region’s top bottleneck and resulted in improved
peak time travel savings of 30 percent. They also coordinated planning and endorsed funding initiatives for transit investments. The Minnesota Transportation Alliance helped pass a state constitutional amendment to dedicate all revenue from the motor vehicle sales tax to highways and transit. Over the past decade, Ports-to-Plains Alliance members raised over $1 billion in federal funding for road improvements in their nine-state Midwestern region. Now is your opportunity to shape policy and direct initiatives by joining the North Florida Business Alliance for Advancing Transportation. Working together, we can keep our economy in motion! Contact: Christopher Quinn Vice President of Public Policy/Business Advocacy Jacksonville Regional Chamber of Commerce 904-366-6668 | info@OurEconomyInMotion.org
NORTH FLORIDA TPO
OCT. 4-10, 2013
SUPPLEMENT TO THE BUSINESS JOURNAL
Investing In Technology: Regional Transportation Management Center Serving as the Intelligent Transportation Systems (ITS) champion for our region, the North Florida TPO dedicated over $9 million to developing the Regional Transportation Management Center (RTMC). Located on the State of Florida’s Jacksonville campus just north of downtown adjacent to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the RTMC building will be approximately 25,000 square feet. Operations center staff from the Florida Highway Patrol, Florida Department of Transportation, Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office, Jacksonville Fire/Rescue and City of Jacksonville Traffic Engineering will be housed there and for the first time be able to coordinate the management of traffic and incidents under one roof. The RTMC is also designed to incorporate space for partnering agencies in Clay, St. Johns and Nassau counties who are expected to provide operations staff during major events and/or evacuations. The benefits of co-locating these agencies include improved communications and coordination, as well as expedited notification and response times in critical situations. The center will feature state-of-theart technology including multiple video walls tracking traffic camera images, traffic flow sensors, news and weather.
The floor will have 32 adjustable operator consoles arranged in groups of four (“quads”). Each station will have multiple monitors displaying pertinent information for that operator’s organization as well as those partnering agencies within the quad. The current RTMC design incorporates the latest energy-saving technologies available. The entire facility is planned to be equipped with LED fixtures and have a goal of saving at least 30 percent a year in electric utility usage. A savings of $50,000 per year is projected with the HVAC system that will incorporate chilled beam cooling to reduce humidity and maintain equipment. The building will also include offices and meeting space for the North Florida TPO staff and Board. One challenge with the TPO’s current location is the lack of space for public attendance at Board and Committee meetings. Public involvement is a key component of the TPO’s activities and the RTMC location will afford
SAVE THE DATE Thursday October 31, 2013 9-11:30 a.m.
University of North Florida | Adam W. Herbert University Center 12000 Alumni Drive | Jacksonville, FL 32224 - 2678 Continental Breakfast will be served There is no fee but registration will be required. Stay tuned for more details. Contact: Wanda Forrest | (904) 306-7514 | wforrest@northfloridatpo.com Attention Fleet Managers and Business Owners! Now’s the time to save on fuel costs by switching to alternative fuels. Check out the latest vehicles and learn how alternative fuels can improve your bottom line. Sponsored by:
Vehicle Exhibit & Panel
more space for that purpose.
The North Florida RTMC project is currently in the design phase and construction is expected to begin in late 2013 or early 2014 and be completed at the end of 2014.
Compressed Natural Gas
Propane
Electricity
Biodiesel
19
20
SUPPLEMENT TO THE BUSINESS JOURNAL
NORTH FLORIDA TPO
OCT. 4-10, 2013
Investing In Alternatives: North Florida Clean Cities
Investing In Mobility: Congestion Management Process
In addition to planning for safety improvements, the North Florida TPO maintains a congestion management plan and process to address recurring congestion within the region. Recurring congestion refers to traffic back-ups that happen routinely, as opposed to a unique event caused by a crash or inclement weather. More than $316 million are lost each year by travelers in our region due to delays and excess fuel consumption. There are multiple options to address congestion and enhance mobility for our region. Each option has tradeoffs regarding benefits, impacts and costs. Goals, objectives, performance measures and benchmarks were developed to guide the solution evaluation process. A key shift in our approach to the congestion management process is an emphasis on enhancing and optimizing mobility for all travelers in lieu of simply reducing automobile congestion. Congested corridors, those experiencing at least one hour of severe congestion per day, were identified in Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns counties. They were then evaluated for potential congestion management strategies including surveillance and incident management systems, access management, congestion pricing, reversible lanes, ramp metering, rideshare programs and transit improvements for bus and rail services to encourage the shift from auto travel to transit. Adding traffic lanes, express lanes, auxiliary lanes, intersection improvements or new roadways are very costly and are to be considered after the other strategies have been evaluated. The potential congestion mitigation projects are awaiting programming as funding becomes available. The success of the Congestion Management Process will be determined by evaluating performance measures that quantify the mobility provided in the region. The TPO will publish an annual mobility report beginning in 2014. To view the complete study and maps, please visit www. northfloridatpo.com.
The North Florida TPO is the host agency for the North Florida Clean Cities Coalition. Formed in 2010, this nonprofit organization provides an educational forum encouraging petroleum reduction for business, government and non-profit agencies in Baker, Clay, Duval, Nassau, Putnam and St. Johns counties. For the past three years, the TPO has provided Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) funds to support the Coalition and pursue initiatives to assist member counties, municipalities and regional partners in fleet conversion to alternative fuels. Currently, the TPO is providing over $700,000 in CMAQ funding for the North Florida TPO Regional Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) Conversion Initiative to support converting and upgrading new municipal fleet vehicles as we pursue partnerships with fuel providers to develop the necessary CNG fueling stations. CNG was selected due to its applicability to the
types of vehicles in municipal fleets. However, the investment will serve as a pilot program to evaluate opportunities for other alternatives including biofuels, propane and electric vehicles as appropriate. Over the next year the TPO will develop a regional master plan to guide strategic deployment of alternative fuel infrastructure throughout the region. In the meantime, you can learn
more about alternative fuels and vehicles at the upcoming expo Thursday, October 31, 2013 from 9 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. at the UNF University Center. The event will include vehicle displays as well as a panel discussion on natural gas, propane, electric and biofuel options. Continental breakfast will be served. There is no cost to attend but you must register in advance at www.northfloridacleancities.com.
Investing In Safety: Regional Strategic Safety Plan The North Florida TPO analyzed historical crash data, identified safety issues and priorities, and developed a Strategic Safety Plan for the North Florida TPO service area encompassing Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns counties. The plan’s goal is to align strategies, objectives and investments to ensure resources are dedicated to reducing fatalities in the North Florida region. A total of 110,497 crashes occurred in our region from 2005-2010. And though that number is quite large, the crash rates, thankfully, are declining from 1.26 per million vehicle miles traveled in 2005 to 1.10 in 2010, which is less than the statewide average of 1.27 for 2010. The total economic cost of 2005-2010 crashes in our region is over $20 billion or $3.33 billion annually in medical costs, lost productivity, travel delays, workplace costs, insurance costs, and legal costs. These losses in lives and economic productivity negatively contribute to the region’s economic competitiveness and quality of life. The crash data was analyzed to identify statistically significant “hot-spot” locations for each type based on crash severity, frequency and economic cost. This information was used to identify the top corridors and intersections to be of the most significant concern for the safety of motorists and vulnerable road users (bicyclists and pedestrians). The most common crash types in our region are lane departures, intersection crashes and careless, distracted and aggressive driving. The highest ranked locations based on the severity of crashes are on the west side of Jacksonville and in Clay County. Construction projects are currently planned on many of the highest ranked priority corridors and intersections supporting the selection of these projects for early funding. Many of these projects include reconstruction, widening, resurfacing, signalization and access management improvements. The Strategic Safety Plan identifies specific strategies for targeted corridors encompassing education, enforcement, engineering and emergency management to accomplish the following goals: • Reduce fatal and injury crashes by five percent by 2020
• Reduce overall crash rate by five percent by 2020 • Advance safety funding for projects on priority corridors and intersections The North Florida TPO and its partner organizations are already implementing strategies and tactics to achieve these goals. Many other safety improvements can be implemented with relatively lower costs and provide high benefit/cost ratios. To learn more about the Regional Strategic Safety Plan and other North Florida TPO Safety initiatives, please visit www.northfloridatpo.com/safety.
To learn more about the TPO, please contact Marci Larson, North Florida TPO Public Affairs Manager, at (904) 306-7513 or mlarson@northfloridatpo.com, or visit www.northfloridatpo.com.
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We built this city . . . 4 days ago | 0
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Heather A. Perry, News-Leader Yulee Middle School sent 22 students to the Future City Competition in Tampa on Jan. 25, the only Nassau County school participating in the competition. Future City is a national, project-based learning experience in which sixth through eighth grade students imagine, design and build cities of the future. YMS science teacher J.T. Medley, Kassidy Cox, Lauren Coursen, David Alexander, Zane McKendree and Terry Shaw, team mentor, with their Future City project model, Y-Town.
“Students work as a team with an educator and engineer mentor to plan cities using SimCity software; research and write solutions to an engineering problem; build tabletop scale models with recycled materials; and present their ideas before judges,” said Joe Medley, YMS science teacher. The program gives students the opportunity to apply math and science to real-world issues; develop writing, public writing, public speaking, problem solving and time management skills; research and propose solutions to engineering challenges; discover different types of engineering and explore career options; learn how their communities work and become better citizens; and develop strong teamwork skills. The 22 YMS students were separated into four teams and spent one hour each school day on the project that is a big part of their grade. Kassidy Cox, 13, said Future City allowed her to be creative and visualize what the future may hold. “The name of our city is Y-Town, short for Yulee, of course! We designed a city that uses solar and wind power. Our future forms of transportation include a Sky-Tram and electric powered self -driving cars.” Seventh grader Jordan Bell says Future City is cool because it has shown him all of the new technology and ways lives may change over the next 50 years and how science applies to the real world. Sabryn Flagler and her team worked on a city named H.A.P.S. (Highly Advanced Power Systems). “We have designed a bridge as a main focus of our model. Our future forms of transportation are air-compressed cars and maglev (magnetic levitation) trains as energy saving alternatives to today’s transportation.” Flagler said participation is a good way for students to express themselves in a positive way and learn to be open to trying new things. All four teams built virtual cities, helping them learn how a city develops and changes over time. “They were able to see how decisions of where roads, schools, hospitals, power plants and industrial areas affect how their city progresses,” said Medley. “They were frustrated early on and even had to start over several times. The students had great ideas, but didn’t quite grasp the overall picture, that a lot of planning has to go into developing a city.”
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Teams are required to write a 500-word city narrative and a 100-word research essay in which they design a way to transport people around their future city. The students took their completed projects to the Northeast Florida competition with hopes of winning a chance to travel to Tampa.
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E-Edition The final margin between the two teams was so close that YMS Principal Jeremy Boatright and Medley recommended that both teams be allowed to compete at the next level and officials agreed.
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The first-place team, Y-Town, included David Alexander, Jordan Bell, Lauren Coursen, Kassidy Cox and Zane McKendree.
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The second-place team, H.A.P.S., was made up of Sabryn Flagler, Heather Higginbotham, Taliyah Lipscomb, Cameron Maughan, Issac Shaw and Averyanna Vinson. The teams didn’t finish in the top five as they had hoped, but Y-Town won an award for Most Holistic City, given to the model that demonstrates high livability aspects in its design including use of open space and accessibility. Students were also judged on how well the team incorporated the full design of city planning, conceptual design, construction, operation and maintenance. “Overall, both groups did a great job. I am very proud of them of how they handled themselves and represented Yulee Middle well at the regional competition,” said Medley. “I am also very thankful to the parents, teachers and administration that supported us through this process.” type@fbnewsleader.com Share This Article |
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Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Chamber leadership stresses the importance of investing in the port to our region’s economy while JTA is developing a blueprint for enhanced transit services. Bicycle and pedestrian advocates continue to ask for enhanced access and safety while private companies, like Uber, seek to fill a niche in our market. With needs so extensive and diverse, how can we plan an integrated transportation network that works for everyone? Published December 6, 2013 in Transportation MetroJacksonville.com
Choose Your Path: What are the Best Transportation Investments? Chamber leadership stresses the importance of investing in the port to our region’s economy while JTA is developing a blueprint for enhanced transit services. Bicycle and pedestrian advocates continue to ask for enhanced access and safety while private companies, like Uber, seek to fill a niche in our market. With needs so extensive and diverse, how can we plan an integrated transportation network that works for everyone? That is the challenge for the North Florida TPO in developing the Path Forward 2040 Long Range. So many needs, so little money in comparison. Five years ago, when the 2035 plan was created, over 170 projects costing nearly $12 billion were identified for the Needs Plan. That number was whittled down to 56 projects costing a little over $5 billion for the final Cost Feasible Plan. Typically, only half of needed projects can be funded unless a new revenue source is identified.
Who sets the priorities and decides what’s in and what’s out? In a large part, you do. There’s an easy way to give input right now by playing Choose Your Path the Asset Allocation Game. Identify your priorities. You can add comments, mark specific locations on a map and add new priorities.
Create a budget. Allocate funding across multiple priorities.
Prioritize alternative solutions. There are different ways to address a need, so how would do it?
After you complete all of the steps, you can see how your input compares with others. If you think that participating in online polls or going to public workshops doesn’t make a difference, consider this based on surveys, web and public meeting input, over $700 million in multimodal projects were included in the final 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan. Being in the Plan doesn’t ensure that a project will be completed; however projects are not eligible for any federal funding if they are not included in their area’s official Long Range Transportation Plan. If you have an opinion, it’s time to share it. Choose YOUR path for the future. Editorial by the North Florida TPO www.northfloridatpo.com This article can be found at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013decchooseyourpath thebesttransportationinvestments
Copyright MetroJacksonville.com
Metro Jacksonville Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on December 05, 2013, 03:00:01 AM
Title: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Metro Jacksonville on December 05, 2013, 03:00:01 AM Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? (http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2944161052_H4R5zhwM.jpg) Chamber leadership stresses the importance of investing in the port to our region’s economy while JTA is developing a blueprint for enhanced transit services. Bicycle and pedestrian advocates continue to ask for enhanced access and safety while private companies, like Uber, seek to fill a niche in our market. With needs so extensive and diverse, how can we plan an integrated transportation network that works for everyone? Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013decchooseyourpaththebest transportationinvestments Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: tufsu1 on December 05, 2013, 08:22:59 AM Why is the budget allocation set with an automatic allocation of $46 to roads and $54 for the other 9 categories? Is there a reason why $100 out of $130 has already been spoken for. Couldn't priorities be changed? Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: cline on December 05, 2013, 08:39:34 AM Yeah that doesn't make sense. Clearly I don't have much say in allocating if the majority of the money is already spoken for and placed in the "Widen Roads" catagory. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 09:27:35 AM One can only assume that the construction of wider roads will remain a higher priority than investment in other forms of mobility throughout most of the region. I say this, because it says "this amount represents planned spending and cannot be moved." While probably true in most of our suburban and rural areas (really most of our region), the automatic allocation will most likely taint the results of identifying true public sentiment. So when I dispersed my budget money, widening roads ended up with the same base number that had been preallocated. In the Alternative solutions section, it provides you with predetermined solutions to prioritize. What if you don't agree with all of the predetermined solutions you're asked to rank by desired priority? For example, in the expand transit section, you're asked to rank your desired priority of the following solutions: Expand bus services (adding new routes) Enhancing bus services using BRT (higher speed buses with fewer stops) Trolley services (smaller buses) Commuter rail (trains operating on railroads) In my opinion, commuter rail (specifically connecting Clay to DT) is the only thing on there with a remote chance at cracking my top 4. Instead of expanding the bus system, I'd rather see the network possibly reduced if it makes higher used corridors more efficient and reliable. Enhancing bus services using BRT (as currently proposed locally) would be closer to the depth of hell than near the bottom of my list. Trolley services (smaller buses) are pretty insignificant to me as well.
Oh, and where are the options for streetcar, light rail, skyway expansion, etc.? Some of us actually would like Jax to join the rest of the world in the 21st century. Because of their importance in stimulating TOD and economic development, I'd rank these options higher than all four items we're forced to select from. In the end, I skipped prioritizing projects I don't agree with being listed and spent more time filling out the "other" option. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: cline on December 05, 2013, 09:35:10 AM Quote from: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 09:27:35 AM One can only assume that the construction of wider roads will remain a higher priority than investment in other forms of mobility throughout most of the region. I say this, because it says "this amount represents planned spending and cannot be moved." While probably true in most of our suburban and rural areas (really most of our region), the automatic allocation will most likely taint the results of identifying true public sentiment. So when I dispersed my budget money, widening roads ended up with the same base number that had been preallocated. In the Alternative solutions section, it provides you with predetermined solutions to prioritize. What if you don't agree with all of the predetermined solutions you're asked to rank by desired priority? For example, in the expand transit section, you're asked to rank your desired priority of the following solutions: Expand bus services (adding new routes) Enhancing bus services using BRT (higher speed buses with fewer stops) Trolley services (smaller buses) Commuter rail (trains operating on railroads) In my opinion, commuter rail (specifically connecting Clay to DT) is the only thing on there with a remote chance at cracking my top 4. Instead of expanding the bus system, I'd rather see the network possibly reduced if it makes higher used corridors more efficient and reliable. Enhancing bus services using BRT (as currently proposed locally) would be closer to the depth of hell than near the bottom of my list. Trolley services (smaller buses) are pretty insignificant to me as well. Oh, and where are the options for streetcar, light rail, skyway expansion, etc.? Some of us actually would like Jax to join the rest of the world in the 21st century. Because of their importance in stimulating TOD and economic development, I'd rank these options higher than all four items we're forced to select from. In the end, I skipped prioritizing projects I don't agree with being listed and spent more time filling out the "other" option.
All very true. In my opinion, if you're going to engage the public and ask them to allocate resources based on what they would like to see, then the public should not be limited in its ability to actually allocate resources to transportation improvements they see fit. Otherwise, like you said, it doesn't represent true public sentiment. If you're only going to allow $30 of the $130 to actually be allocated according to what the public would like to see it's almost like "what's the point?" Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: mvp on December 05, 2013, 12:15:04 PM The reason that there are limits on the funding you can allocate is that the funding sources (federal and state) define specific types of projects that the funds can be spent on so the TPO does not have the flexibility to change the state and federals laws. For example, you can't take transit funding from the FTA and use it for highways. Of course you could create a new funding source, like taxes or fees, and dedicate to whatever projects you like. If you have other solutions you would like to be included, you can email them to info@pathforward2040.com. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 12:52:34 PM That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Hopefully, mobility fee revenue can be generated to assist locally. If I read my budget allocation in comparison to other participants right, it appears people do want to see more money dedicated to alternative forms of mobility. Cool game. I'd encourage anyone who hasn't tried, to give it a shot. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments?
Post by: tufsu1 on December 05, 2013, 03:27:35 PM Quote from: mvp on December 05, 2013, 12:15:04 PM The reason that there are limits on the funding you can allocate is that the funding sources (federal and state) define specific types of projects that the funds can be spent on so the TPO does not have the flexibility to change the state and federals laws. For example, you can't take transit funding from the FTA and use it for highways.
Actually that isn't completely true anymore. MPOs have the ability to flex some of the dollars if they choose. Plus, roadway money doesn't have to be spent on widening roads as the allocation implies. It can just as easily be spent on making complete streets. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 04:08:57 PM ^I kind of assumed with a change in policy, all roadway widening projects would be either complete or context sensitive streets based projects. I didn't allocate any cash to truck movement because it seems that the money already dedicated to roads, intersection improvements, etc. would facilitate this. However, I would have loved to see some more diversity with the transit solutions. We all know what JTA wants and has proposed but I'd love to see a survey validate if the community is truly in agreement with those visions or not. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Charles Hunter on December 05, 2013, 08:12:11 PM Lake, may I borrow those rosecolored glasses you are wearing? You are much more optimistic than I about the coming of Context Sensitive / Complete Streets. I have seen no indication from any of the road agencies to move in that direction. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 08:21:31 PM The way I see it, we're talking 2040. Most of the stuff that ends up in the LRTP will still be a decade or two from design, much less construction. IMO, we'll be pulled kicking and screaming to embrace and fund some of these concepts as the rest of the world changes around us and existing shot callers retire and die out. However, the transition could easily be longer than a decade. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: sheclown on December 06, 2013, 08:13:22 AM Joe and I attended the JTA Community Advisory Group Meeting (CAG) last night at the Legends Center (which by the way wow what a cool space who would have known that place was there). From the community comments to the leadership of JTA last night. "ride the bus, ride it every day for a month and this will tell you all you need to know" "nobody wanna take you anywhere for $1.50" "we need a transportation system like Phoenix" "we need to hand out more bus passes to the prisoner reentry program" "bus drivers are rude, but getting better" "transfers are a nightmare" and from a man I had not met before "use places like Metrojacksonville to get the word out" Below are the meeting dates, times and locations if you are interested, show up and give your 2 cents: Tuesday, Dec 10, 67 @ St. Vincents Auditorium C
Wednesday, Dec 11, 56 @ FSCJ downtown, Adv Tech Ctr, Room T140 Thursday, Dec 12, 67 @ FSCJ Kent campus, Room E1112 Tuesday, Dec 17, 67 @ Arlington Sr. Ctr, 1078 Rogero Rd If you cannot attend, you can email comments to Carl Weckenmann, JTA. cweckenmann@jtafla.com Other issues brought up were transfers from one bus to another (often bus drivers don't wait for passengers to unload from one bus before pulling out). The length of travel time. The rude behavior of the bus drivers (although that has improved). The lack of bus passes. Mainly the difficulty in getting from one place to another. JTA admits that there are problems and that it wants input from the community. Since the purpose of the CAG is to give community input about transportation issues, how does this work with the North Florida TPO? How do these groups work together?
Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Charles Hunter on December 06, 2013, 06:01:03 PM The JTA has a seat on the TPO Board, and there are 2 from the JTA staff on the TPO's Technical Committee. As with any federal transportation funds, any federal dollars JTA gets/spends must be approved by the TPO. For big stuff like commuter rail or BRT or streetcar it has to be in the Long Range Plan. Operating items, including bus purchases, have to be in the five year budget (TIP). It looks like the JTA's meetings are about short or mid term service issues, which the TPO would not get involved with. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: sheclown on December 06, 2013, 06:45:38 PM Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 06, 2013, 06:01:03 PM The JTA has a seat on the TPO Board, and there are 2 from the JTA staff on the TPO's Technical Committee. As with any federal transportation funds, any federal dollars JTA gets/spends must be approved by the TPO. For big stuff like commuter rail or BRT or streetcar it has to be in the Long Range Plan. Operating items, including bus purchases, have to be in the five year budget (TIP). It looks like the JTA's meetings are about short or mid term service issues, which the TPO would not get involved with.
I specifically asked that question and was told the CAGs will deal with both the short term and plan for the long term issues. And all issues are very important, IMHO. Thanks for the info Charles, but could I get more? Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: tufsu1 on December 06, 2013, 09:57:18 PM ^ you should call someone at JTA and/or the TPO and ask how they coordinate Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Redbaron616 on December 09, 2013, 12:35:55 PM Investment? Government? The two never mix. Government will spend twice as much to built something as a profitmotivated company could. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: tufsu1 on December 09, 2013, 01:41:33 PM Quote from: Redbaron616 on December 09, 2013, 12:35:55 PM Investment? Government? The two never mix. Government will spend twice as much to built something as a profitmotivated company could.
that isn't necessarily true and you know it...although some of the projects could be funded by private interests. Also, private companies do tend to spend less money when they skirt things like public involvement, environmental impact analyses, etc. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: mvp on December 09, 2013, 02:19:19 PM tufsu1 is right about the flexible funding there is some discretion, thus the $30 in the game. In terms of coordination, JTA plans, builds and operates transit facilities and services in Jacksonvile. The TPO programs projects receiving federal funds in Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns counties. They work together, with public input, to decide which projects will be in the Long Range Transportation Plan. Here's a link to the TPO's Board and Committees: http://http://www.northfloridatpo.com/north_florida_tpo/board_committees/ The 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan includes BRT, Commuter Rail and Streetcars details here: http://www.northfloridatpo.com/images/uploads/general/LRTP_summbrochure.pdf the 2040 Long Range Plan will update this. What should be added to/deleted from this list? In addition to the asset allocation game, there's a survey with more openended questions and choices https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: sheclown on December 09, 2013, 03:01:50 PM That is very helpful. Thanks! Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: stephendare on July 05, 2014, 03:20:01 PM Quote from: Redbaron616 on December 09, 2013, 12:35:55 PM Government will spend twice as much to built something as a profitmotivated company could.
Yes. As a result the Hoover Dam is still around and functioning. And the nations Highways. And most of the Federal buildings that have ever been built. There is a difference between doing something right and doing something in order to cut costs so that you can get a higher return from some sucker with cash red baron.
Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Ocklawaha on July 05, 2014, 05:00:14 PM This is true, you can count on big government projects, but you better watch the fine print lest they plan your life too. In our case, for 30+ years the streetcar has had popular support of the population and complete and total lip service, deception, smoke and mirrors and dog and pony shows from JTA. We were FIRST with an idea, and today we'll be somewhere beyond 70Th. But don't worry, JTA stacked the TPO and suggested we convert the streetcars from the 2030 plan into the Skyway in the 2040 plan. The TPO is perhaps on the fence, but without enormous focus, organization and public outcry, I think I know where this will end up. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/ScreenShot2014 0705at34949PM_zps50336e79.png) (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/ScreenShot2014 0705at34745PM_zpsf0599b86.png) Trust us, it will be 'JUST LIKE RAIL ONLY CHEAPER.'
Metro Jacksonville Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: spuwho on April 16, 2014, 10:59:27 PM
Title: North Florida TPO Meetings Planned Path Forward 2040 Post by: spuwho on April 16, 2014, 10:59:27 PM NF TPO is having meetings to discuss the Path Forward 2040 plan throughout NE Florida. Please go to the TPO Meetings page to get the date and time for your area. http://www.northfloridatpo.com/meetings_agendas_minutes/ (http://www.northfloridatpo.com/meetings_agendas_minutes/) The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization is developing the 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan to meet the needs of our diverse and growing region. Should we have more roads, transit options, bike lanes or sidewalks? How should we invest in technology, safety, our port and alternative fuel infrastructure? Come to the meeting and share your ideas. SMF 2.0 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan The North Florida TPO will host a series of public meetings over the next two weeks to get input on transportation needs for the next 2025 years. Transportation projects must be included in the Long Range Transportation Plan to receive federal funding. Published April 18, 2014 in Transportation MetroJacksonville.com
The meetings will feature maps and lists of potential project needs identified during the last long range plan update, as well as numerous studies that included public input. The potential projects will be displayed at five stations: Bicycle and Pedestrian; Transit; Freight; Road Capacity; Safety and TSM&O (Transportation System Management & Operations). You will have the opportunity to “vote” for how much to invest in these categories by allocating 10 tokens among the stations. The TPO is also seeking comments on specific projects and recommendations for additional projects to consider. Public Meetings All meetings are 5 – 7 p.m. St. Johns County Tuesday April 15
St. Augustine Commission Chambers Alcazar Room, first floor of City Hall 75 King Street, St. Augustine Clay County Thursday April 17 ThrasherHorne Center 283 College Drive, Orange Park Baker County Tuesday April 22 Baker County Commission Chambers 55 North 3rd Street, Macclenny Nassau County Wednesday April 23 Nassau County Commission Chambers 96135 Nassau Place, Yulee Duval County Thursday April 24 FSCJ Deerwood 9911 Old Baymeadows Road, Jacksonville Putnam County Monday April 28 Putnam County Commission Chambers 2509 Crill Avenue, Palatka Maps and lists of potential projects will be posted at http://pathforward2040.com/whatispath forward/resources/ late Tuesday April 15. The TPO is also arranging small group meetings with neighborhood, civic and business organizations. If you would like a study presentation at your meeting, please contact Marci Larson at (904) 306 7513. After this round of meetings, the projects will be evaluated based on Goals, Objectives and Performance Measures that address economic competitiveness; livability; safety; mobility and accessibility; equity in decision making; and system preservation, as well as projected future revenue. Another round of public meetings with the final proposed “Cost Feasible” projects will be held in August/September. For more information visit Path Forward 2040 website.
This article can be found at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014aprpublicmeetingson 2040longrangetransportationplan
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Metro Jacksonville » Community » Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure » Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan
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Author Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
Topic: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan (Read 1070 times) Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « on: April 16, 2014, 11:40:02 PM »
Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan
Posts: 2661
The North Florida TPO will host a series of public meetings over the next two weeks to get input on transportation needs for the next 2025 years. Transportation projects must be included in the Long Range Transportation Plan to receive federal funding. Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014aprpublicmeetingson2040longrangetransportationplan
mvp Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 05:18:19 PM »
Meeting tonight at ThrasherHorne Center in Orange Park. The project list and maps under discussion are at: http://pathforward2040.com/whatispathforward/resources/
spuwho Hero Member
Posts: 2632
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 08:54:33 PM »
At least Ock's Streetcar is still in the transit plan. First time I noticed that they want to run commuter rail all the way into Fernandina. BRT down Beach Boulevard, I am still skeptical on that one.
tufsu1 Hero Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 08:18:04 AM »
^ that was in the early JTA plans....but was later cut back to Yulee for cost reasons. The Needs Plan is kind of like a wish list and goes well beyond what could be afforded by 2040. The cut down to affordability will happen in the summer and fall of this year.
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thelakelander Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
Posts: 23524
cline Hero Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 08:34:18 AM »
Basically. Anyone who has an ideal should submit it to the TPO for consideration. This is a chance to work certain projects into the region's actual transportation plans.
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #5 on: April 18, 2014, 08:56:14 AM »
The transit map is not really a "Needs Plan" map since it shows mostly existing bus routes, facilities etc. The map would be more useful if it only showed proposed needs projects. It is also pretty much impossible to read what is going on DT on that map.
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thelakelander Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
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mvp Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 09:29:56 AM »
Yeah, it is hard to read. I've seen some earlier maps that had some pretty weird streetcar routes and that did not include all of the 2030 Mobility Plan transit, bike and ped projects. It's hard to see if those have been added to this version.
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 11:04:12 AM »
There's an inset below the legend you can zoom in on, but yes still a bit challenging to see. It's easier to look at the project list to see what specifically is included. Here's a summary of the proposed projects from the list:
BRT in addition to current four corridors that are currently in process, service from Regency to the Avenues Mall, Gateway to JIA and the Avenues to S Johns County Government complex. Skyway Extensions from the central station to the stadium, central station to Brooklyn/Forest St., Forest St. to Five Points, Kings Ave. to Atlantic Blvd. in San Marco, and FSJC station to Shands. Streetcar From Five Points to King St. in Riverside to FSCJ Kent Campus, and from Atlantic Blvd. in San Marco to Baptist Hospital/MOSH Commuter Rail From downtown transportation center individual lines each to Yulee, Baldwin, Green Cove Springs, Callahan and St. Augustine. Additional extensions from Green Cove to Palatka, Yulee to Fernandina Beach, and St. Augustine to Palm Coast. Mayport Ferry service and capital improvements St. Johns County is also asking for local bus expansion.
Duval County Public Meeting is Thursday, 4/24, 57 PM at FSCJ Deerwood. In addition to seeking comments and additions to the "Needs Plan" list, the TPO is asking people to weigh in on how investment should be allocated for the region across five categories. Divide 100% among: Bike/Ped Transit Road Capacity Freight Safety/Transportation systems management and operations (technology)
Ocklawaha Phd. Ferroequinology Global Moderator Hero Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 08:32:36 PM »
A disjointed streetcar system is DOA. The system MUST be anchored downtown. Taking BRT all the way to St. Augustine is simply, apocalyptic in view of the adjacent FEC RY and the likelihood of All Aboard Florida. The 'S' line and the F&J below Springfield yard are ignored. Lem Turner BRT should terminate at the Airport via the Free Trade Zone.
No BRT on the Arlington Expressway is missing our easiest chance for a median based, internationally ranked Silver Level system.
Posts: 10574 Monster of Mobility! Ocklawaha is Robert Mann
thelakelander Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
Posts: 23524
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 09:03:01 PM »
^Make a public comment about this, since you won't be able to attend the meetings: Quote Comments & Suggestions Please share your comments and suggestions for the Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan: info@pathforward2040.com or post via Facebook at the bottom of the page 904.306.7500 TDD 904.306.7502 Fax 904.306.7501 North Florida TPO 1022 Prudential Drive Jacksonville, FL 32207
http://pathforward2040.com/getinvolved/
thelakelander Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
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ProjectMaximus Hero Member
Posts: 1846
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 09:10:58 PM »
^^At a minimum, for Duval County, the 2035 LRTP cost feasible transit projects need to be included in the 2040 needs plan. Not really sure where the modifications to the streetcar and BRT lines came from. Nevertheless, both aren't ideal for either mode (BRT or streetcar).
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 11:09:00 PM »
The NFTPO was involved in the electric car rally a few weeks back. We covered the map with dots for desired charging stations. Apparently they do expect to have real funding/partnerships to actually move forward on some, but the total number of stations is laughable.
Know Growth Sr. Member
Posts: 388
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 09:05:39 PM »
"Thrasher" ('Horne,Pittman,King et al ) pretty much defined 'future' events seen here.Join in! You might even glimpse a hint of The Belt Way.
Not that a Beltway,even Belt Way Transport Alternative would eventually become reality. The Process was Most about Clay development dreams,stemmi back to the 60's. The prospect of Clay countians marching in step,five days a week ( Ten total!!!!...done did that,became Avondale ASS!....) in to Duval,and.....yikes!!.....back....... might be a bit,well,antiquated. After all, this was a conversation (long ago JTA et al) Anne Grimes and I had decades ago the ridiculous prospect of commuters grinding up and down Blanding Blvd.Ended up basically End of Subject. Since revised to encompass outlying county empahasis on in county employment centers. Somehow get Reinhold Corp to contribute to this thread or simply consider closing It. If you can somehow get Reinhold to reveal,you might in fact become energized about future prospect beyond what I darkly profile here. Then catch up.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 09:21:51 PM by Know Growth »
tufsu1 Hero Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 10:02:10 PM »
^ English please
Posts: 10810
AuditoreEnterprise Sr. Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 10:11:59 PM »
I really like the idea of the commuter rails going out to Yulee and areas like that. I think if that happens it is going to encourage people in cities where the is not really that much to do to venture downtown and make Jacksonville more connected as a whole. After all most major cities have that type of system in place. Definitely a step in the right direction in my eyes.
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Metro Jacksonville » Community » Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure » Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday
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Author mvp Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Topic: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday (Read 435 times) Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday « on: May 12, 2014, 05:13:17 PM »
The North Florida TPO is holding another public meeting for the Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan: Thursday May 15, 2014 5 7 p.m. Historic Springfield Community Learning Center 1601 N Main St., 2nd Floor Jacksonville, FL 32206 Special Guest: The Honorable Corrine Brown Senior Member of the House Committee on Transportation & Infrastructure
mvp Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Ocklawaha Phd. Ferroequinology Global Moderator Hero Member
Re: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday « Reply #1 on: May 15, 2014, 02:34:46 PM »
Rain's tapering off, so if you're in the neighborhood please stop by and let transportation planners know your thoughts! The project list and maps are at http://pathforward2040.com/whatispathforward/resources/.
Re: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday « Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 02:50:05 PM »
Amazing, 4 of the 5 original Skyway terminals are back on the 'needs list.' As usual though, streetcar, skyway, bus, BRT and commuter rail all side by side along the south side and somewhat on the south west corridors.
Posts: 10574 Monster of Mobility! Ocklawaha is Robert Mann
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Metro Jacksonville » Community » Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure » Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday
Jump to: => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure
Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Due to the lack of public engagement in our community over the last few months, the future of transit investment may be dramatically altered for the worse. Metro Jacksonville has become a popular place for ideas and quality conversation on improving mass transit throughout North Florida. However, we're failing to advance these ideas into reality because of a lack of involvement where it really counts. Tomorrow is the deadline for your comments and suggestions involving the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization's 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan. If you care about what type of transportation investments are destined for your neighborhood's future, this is your opportunity to have your ideas, thoughts, concerns and suggestions included in the planning process. Published June 2, 2014 in Transportation MetroJacksonville.com
Why do we need a Long Range Transportation Plan (LRTP)?
Federal regulations require all metropolitan planning organizations to prepare a Long Range Transportation Plan that addresses multimodal transportation needs over at least a 20year horizon. The plan for Northeast Florida (Baker, Clay, Duval, Nassau, Putnam and St. Johns Counties) must be updated every three to five years. Projects included in the adopted Cost Feasible Plan must have
funding identified. To be considered for the Cost Feasible Plan, a project must first be on the Needs Plan list.
How is it used after it is created?
The Plan is used to decide which transportation projects are advanced and funded. In order to receive federal funds, a project must be in the Long Range Transportation Plan. Projects are selected from the LRTP for the fiveyear Transportation Improvement Program (TIP).
How do transportation projects get funded?
A funding source must be identified for a project to be in the LRTP Cost Feasible Plan. Projects selected from the LRTP for the TIP have funding programmed for study, design, rightofway, utilities and construction as available. Funding comes primarily from state and federal allocations and grants.
2035 LRTP Cost Feasible Plan Projects
Current transit projects eligible for future federal funding assistance are shown above and described below: Green (Dashed) Commuter rail lines from downtown Jacksonville to Baker (I), Clay (H), Nassau (F) and St. Johns (G) Counties. Orange (Dashed) Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) routes to Arlington (A), Avenues Mall (D), Lem Turner Road Walmart (B) and Orange Park Mall (E). Orange Streetcar system connecting downtown Jacksonville with Springfield (L), Riverside (N) and Everbank Field (K). Blue Existing Skyway system For more information on the 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan
Current 2040 transit projects being considered
With little input from the community, transit projects in the core of the city have been dramatically altered from previous planning efforts. Major changes include:
1. Elimination of the streetcar network included in the 2030 Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP Cost Feasible Plan. 2. Springfield's Main Street streetcar route would be replaced by a Skyway extension that appears to go down Pearl Street to access UF Health Jacksonville. This route would run parallel the proposed North BRT Corridor, which will be two blocks to the west. 3. A Skyway extension to Five Points would possibly run down Riverside Avenue to Post Street, before terminating at Riverside Park. 4. A new Riverside streetcar loop would connect the Five Points Skyway extension to Fairfax and Avondale. 5. Additional Skyway extensions to the Stadium District's parking garages via Duval Street and to San Marco, along Hendricks Avenue are being considered. 6. While not shown in this map, the latest route for the north commuter rail line would utilize existing CSX track north of Gateway Mall, as opposed to the SLine. The positive is such a route could provide direct connectivity between downtown, the Farmers Market and Gateway Mall. It would also be cheaper than rebuilding the SLine Urban Greenway to accommodate rail. The negatives would be that districts ideal for infill and redevelopment, such as Durkeeville, Mrytle Avenue, UF Health Jacksonville, New Springfield and the Springfield Warehouse District would be left out of the mix.
The Basic LRTP Planning Process
A sketch of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority's proposed downtown Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) line.
1. Development of Needs Plan Based on the community's understanding of the demand for future travel, multimodal transportation projects will be identified to meet this demand. At the point the project list is focused on needs and not restrained by cost, however it is known that our needs will exceed the funding available through the year 2040. If your idea is not included in the Needs Plan, it will not be eligible for inclusion into the Cost Feasible Plan or eligible for federal funding between now and 2040.
2. Develop Cost Feasible Plan The Cost Feasible Plan will identify projects from the Needs Plan that are financially feasible, provide the greatest return on investment, and are consistent with the policies, goals and objectives. This plan defines our path forward for investments to 2040. The Cost Feasible Plan is required by federal legislation and will focus on the fourcounty area of Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns. If your idea is not included in the Cost Feasible Plan, it will not be eligible for federal funding between now and 2040.
3. Adopt & Document Final Plan
The final Cost Feasible Plan must be approved by the North Florida TPO Board by December 2014. Reports documenting each step of the planning process will be prepared. If your idea is not included in the Cost Feasible Plan, it will not be eligible for federal funding between now and 2040.
4. What this means for Metro Jacksonville Readers In short, if a transportation idea is not included in the Long Range Transportation Plan, it will most likely will not become reality over the next 20 years because it will not be eligible for federal funding assistance.
5. How to get your idea considered for inclusion to the LRTP? The Comment Period deadline for the Needs Plan is Tuesday, June 3, 2014. Maybe you like the projects in the existing 2035 plan or the alternatives in the 2040 Needs Plan. Perhaps there's another idea you believe is better than what's illustrated in both plans. In any event, make your thoughts known before it's too late. Getting your comments and suggestions considered for inclusion into the LRTP is just as easy as replying online to this article, twitter or average facebook post. Better yet, take a minute and send your thoughts and suggestions today to http://info@pathforward2040.com.
Redevelopment opportunities in under utilized core neighborhoods such as the Springfield Warehouse District would be possibly lost if the 2040 Needs Plan route for commuter rail, replaces the current S Line connection. For more information on the 2040 Needs Plan. Link includes maps of proposed roadway, bike/pedestrian, freight projects. This article can be found at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014jundoyoucareabout thefutureoftransitinjax
Copyright MetroJacksonville.com
Metro Jacksonville Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on June 02, 2014, 03:00:02 AM
Title: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Metro Jacksonville on June 02, 2014, 03:00:02 AM Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? (http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3173864585_nC7QmfDM.jpg) Due to the lack of public engagement in our community over the last few months, the future of transit investment may be dramatically altered for the worse. Metro Jacksonville has become a popular place for ideas and quality conversation on improving mass transit throughout North Florida. However, we're failing to advance these ideas into reality because of a lack of involvement where it really counts. Tomorrow is the deadline for your comments and suggestions involving the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization's 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan. If you care about what type of transportation investments are destined for your neighborhood's future, this is your opportunity to have your ideas, thoughts, concerns and suggestions included in the planning process. Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014jundoyoucareaboutthefuture oftransitinjax Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: fieldafm on June 02, 2014, 09:48:48 AM This is an interesting article. I think I'm more informed than the average Jaxson about transportation in the city, however I feel totally blindsided by some of these decisions. It seems as though some of these projects (that anyone with even a belowaverage understanding of costbenefit analysis could tell are losers) replaced other much more viable projects, intentionally to steer future money away from citybuilding and neighborhood enhancing projects in favor of more roadbuidling on the peripheral edges of the county/region. I'd encourage everyone reading to write in and give their thoughts. My suggestions: Scrap the Five Points Skyway extension (that would fail virtually all viable testing methods, the streetcar utilizing a similar route would not) Bring back the Riverside Streetcar (a project in the Mobility Plan that was reflective of community input) For that matter, bring back the entire streetcar network included in the 2030 Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP Cost Feasible Plan. Bring back the Sline rail line (a project in the Mobility Plan that was reflective of community input, and a project that has proven nationwide to spur major redevelopment opportunities that more than make up for the cost of building the system) Bring back the Springfield streetcar project (a project in the Mobility Plan that was reflective of community input), and scrap the Skyway expansion into Springfield (presumably inserted as the streetcar would pass viability tests, and the Skyway would not… thereby shifting money to more beltway projects) Scrap the San Marco streetcar expansion, in favor of a Skyway expansion (at grade) to the FEC crossing thereby connecting San Marco Square with downtown (and potentially Riverside). Scrap the Fairfax/Avondale streetcar plan (something that neighboring residents would stop at all costs… thereby shifting money to more beltway projects).
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Tacachale on June 02, 2014, 09:49:04 AM Thanks. What is Metro Jacksonville's take on the changes? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 09:56:10 AM We need to get together a plate of suggestions for emails And these have to be in by the end of Tomorrow?
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Bridges on June 02, 2014, 10:19:29 AM I went to the "meeting/presentation" in Springfield two weeks ago. There was absolutely no one from the community there for at least the 30 minutes I was there. Literally it was just me for most of the time (the input meeting had the unfortunate timing as being at the same time as a community meeting on Ability Housing). I don't know much about the projects, but NFTPO had a nice layout and voting system setup. I was absolutely shocked about the lack of pedestrian and bike transportation projects. These were lumped together with some streetcar level plans too. I had to ask for clarification that this was the plan for 2040. It didn't even look like a great ped/bike plan for 2015. It showed absolutely zero thought for a future in that direction. I voted with 7 chips for more ped/bike plans, and the other 3 for mass transit/rail/streetcar. I wish I could contribute more constructive ideas other than just saying "more ped/bike/streetcar projects" Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 11:00:51 AM Quote from: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 09:56:10 AM And these have to be in by the end of Tomorrow?
Yes. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 11:01:11 AM Quote from: Bridges on June 02, 2014, 10:19:29 AM I went to the "meeting/presentation" in Springfield two weeks ago. There was absolutely no one from the community there for at least the 30 minutes I was there. Literally it was just me for most of the time (the input meeting had the unfortunate timing as being at the same time as a community meeting on Ability Housing). I don't know much about the projects, but NFTPO had a nice layout and voting system setup. I was absolutely shocked about the lack of pedestrian and bike transportation projects. These were lumped together with some streetcar level plans too. I had to ask for clarification that this was the plan for 2040. It didn't even look like a great ped/bike plan for 2015. It showed absolutely zero thought for a future in that direction. I voted with 7 chips for more ped/bike plans, and the other 3 for mass transit/rail/streetcar. I wish I could contribute more constructive ideas other than just saying "more ped/bike/streetcar projects"
the neighborhood went to a meeting to stop disabled vets instead of planning their own infrastructure for the next 20 years?
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Tacachale on June 02, 2014, 11:29:22 AM From their website it looks like there are extensive bike/ped projects, but it's hard to tell what they are since the maps are so hard to see. I don't know how they compare to the Mobility Plan. From what I can see and know a little bit about, here are my thoughts: *I'm with Mike (and presumably others) that a 5 Points Skyway stop is unfeasible. Streetcar, please *Especially given that, the Riverside streetcar format should be brought more in line with the Mobility Plan. *I support the Skyway extentions to Atlantic Boulevard and the Stadium District. Forest Street could probably be incorporated to the Streetcar plan. *Similarly, the Springfield Skyway extension would be great, but could probably be just as well as a cheaper streetcar project (which was, of course, in the Mobility Plan). *Are they really saying there will be streetcar in San Marco in addition to the Skyway extension? Why? *I would prefer to see the Sline rail project kept, given that it was created through community input, whereas the justification for the change is unclear. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 11:49:15 AM Justification for change is probably the anticipated cost of rebuilding track in the SLine, which includes going through the middle of JTA's bus operations yard. Instead of using the SLine, you could utilize an existing line that runs north of Gateway Mall to head north. The downfall is that you miss out on the urban core population centers and destinations such as UF Health. One option not shown could be something that Ock has mentioned quite a few times. Perhaps, the SLine should be a part of a LRT line and completely separate from commuter rail? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 11:50:04 AM How would you phrase those options for email or website commentary? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 11:53:30 AM I'd have to look at a specific idea or concept and then email that thought or suggestion. We should probably have Ock share his old ideas or look them up for further detail. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: jaxlore on June 02, 2014, 12:10:46 PM The lack of bicycle infrastructure is ridiculous. how can they talk about bike share on one hand yet we still have the third most dangerous streets in the country for bike and pedestrians? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 12:40:08 PM Where do you believe bike/ped is needed? How do you believe it should be addressed? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: IrvAdams on June 02, 2014, 01:09:29 PM
I read the article and sent a directed reply with my suggestions. I am no professional but, reading this feedback, it looks like I was pretty close. It's so hard to say what will be the best, but I suggested stuff I thought would be effective. Having read these responses, I think I'm going to add some more suggestions. It's one way to feel involved. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 01:39:26 PM Stephen, I don't know how I missed the "presentation" two weeks ago in Springfield. Either I didn't hear about it, or didn't know what it was. Since apparently no one else in Springfield was there either, I have to believe we didn't hear about it. How are these things communicated? Meanwhile, reading the article and preparing input. :) Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 01:40:49 PM Quote from: Tacachale on June 02, 2014, 09:49:04 AM Thanks. What is Metro Jacksonville's take on the changes?
At this point, there is no official Metro Jacksonville take. Nevertheless, I can share my opinion at this point. Personally, I'm highly concerned that several of the "replacement" transit ideas won't pass the technical sniff test and that they end up not making the Cost Feasible Plan. For example, how do you get the Skyway under I95 and to Five Points? If the streetcar already in the COJ Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP's Cost Feasible Plan is at least three times cheaper to implement and integrates into the context much better, why change to something riskier? Especially without public input? Same goes for extending the Skyway to UF Health. Great idea in 1975 when the original Skyway planning process was underway. Since BRT is a go down Jefferson/Broad with a stop at UF Health, extending the Skyway parallel a block or two away doesn't really achieve much. We'd just have too systems that will compete for limited ridership at the cost of millions more to the taxpayer. Such a path would also not deliver the needed economic benefits to Main and 8th Streets....the two Springfield streets where mixeduse infill is most desired and feasible. Nevertheless, I'm fine with what's shown being in the Needs Plan. However, I've requested that the Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP's Cost Feasible Plan transit, bike and ped projects be added to the 2040 Needs Plan as well. This way, they all have the opportunity to be studied in greater detail for inclusion into the official 2040 Cost Feasible Plan. IMO, the worst scenario would be taking out things that made the previous plan (and that the land use component of our comp plan was modified for to allow for TOD along those specific corridors), substituting them with risky expensive alternatives that end up being too unreasonable to make the final plan's list. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 01:43:41 PM Quote from: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 01:39:26 PM Stephen, I don't know how I missed the "presentation" two weeks ago in Springfield. Either I didn't hear about it, or didn't know what it was. Since apparently no one else in Springfield was there either, I have to believe we didn't hear about it. How are these things communicated? Meanwhile, reading the article and preparing input. :)
Well to be honest, I didn't know it was that night either. ;) It seems like there should be a neighborhood organization that paid attention to these things!
Thanks for filling out the responses. Regardless of any other issues or happenings, this is one of those things where people have to pay attention and get involved in the long term planning. Many many years from now, down the road when kids are making decisions where to live or to stay in Jville, and some of us are old enough to worry about how we are going to get from place to place, these decisions will have been made now, while no one is looking at them! Please let everyone you know how important this is to all of our futures.! Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 01:45:04 PM Quote . However, I've requested that the Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP's Cost Feasible Plan transit, bike and ped projects be added to the 2040 Needs Plan as well. This way, they all have the opportunity to be studied in greater detail for inclusion into the official 2040 Cost Feasible Plan.
Would this be one takeaway that everyone could help include in their comments and emails? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 01:47:05 PM Quote from: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 01:39:26 PM Stephen, I don't know how I missed the "presentation" two weeks ago in Springfield. Either I didn't hear about it, or didn't know what it was. Since apparently no one else in Springfield was there either, I have to believe we didn't hear about it. How are these things communicated? Meanwhile, reading the article and preparing input. :)
They've been advertised in various media outlets around town. In fact, we've run some banner ads and articles promoting the meetings and planning process. However, from the response at April's meeting, we may be better off with shock and awe headlines to encourage more participation. (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/assets/thumbs/image.3504.feature.jpg) Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014aprpublicmeetingson2040longrange transportationplan#.U4y3Y_mwJkA http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=21289.0 Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=21520.0 Path Forward 2040: Investing In Our Future http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013octpathforward2040investinginour future#.U4y4DfmwJkA Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013decchooseyourpaththebesttransportation investments#.U4y4PvmwJkA
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 01:51:04 PM Quote from: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 01:45:04 PM Quote . However, I've requested that the Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP's Cost Feasible Plan transit, bike and ped projects be
added to the 2040 Needs Plan as well. This way, they all have the opportunity to be studied in greater detail for inclusion into the official 2040 Cost Feasible Plan. Would this be one takeaway that everyone could help include in their comments and emails?
That would be one takeaway. Yet, I prefer that people don't just take my word for it because I don't have all the answers. If there are ideas for improving transit in Jax out there, suggest them. If you like what you see in the 2035 Cost Feasible Plan or 2040 Needs Plan, tell the TPO so. If you think something worth considering has been left out, please point these things or ideas out because whatever doesn't end up in the Needs Plan by tomorrow will not be considered for inclusion into the official plan. If it's not in that official plan, you can forget about public dollars going to it anytime soon. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 01:56:02 PM We are so lucky to have you Lake. You have insight into these matters that is truly significant. You are the appointee to the Long Range Transportation Planning board after all. There are very few people in the state with your level of familiarity with the issues, and while I am certainly free to make up my own mind, in a pinch I certainly don't mind following your advice in this. :) Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 02, 2014, 01:56:55 PM STREETCAR IS NEEDED, heritage streetcar is cheaper and attracts visitors: FROM LAURA & INDEPENDENCE: To Newnan, to Beaver (run off the east end and through the woods over Hogans Creek) to Randolph, to Duval, to Lee, to Water, return to start. FROM BAY AND LEE, west on Bay to Myrtle (center lane is old streetcar subway) to Forrest, to Riverside, to Post, to Oak, to King, to FSCJ, to Roosevelt, to San Juan to Fairfax. FROM NEWNAN AND BEAVER: north on Newnan to Orange, to Main, to 8th, to Jefferson, north returning to Boulevard north to 'S LINE' FROM BEAVER STREET ALIGNMENT UNDER ARLINGTON EXPRESSWAY AT UNION ST WAREHOUSE, north on former F & J railroad r of w to 21st to Gateway Plaza. RAPID STREETCAR! Skyway to Forrest Skyway to Farmers Market (direct line)* Skyway to FSCJ to Health Dept to VA to UF Health* Skyway on Bay to Randolph Skyway south to Atlantic (west of railroad) in San Marco* *indicates a atgrade endpoint transfer terminal opportunity SKYBRIDGE a elevated pedestrian walk from current second deck of current San Marco station to Baptist and Aetna... 12,000 missed riders! CONDENSE JRTC INTO SINGLE HISTORIC BUILDING sell 8 blocks to TOD Developers. (Flagler? AAF? Etc) BRT (SILVER LEVEL) JRTC downtownArlington ExpresswayRegency (switch to bronze level Regency) hence via Atlantic to Beach. BRT (bronze level) Park St to King, to Post, to Cassat, to Blanding, to OP NORTHWEST BRT AS PLANNED USING PEARL AND REACHING JIA
EXPRESS MOTOR COACHES W/WIFI restrooms etc running Downtown Baymeadows (office parks) Town Center UNF BEACHES in lieu of BRT SOUTHEAST Similar service OP Baymeadows etc Commuter rail on A line to GREEN COVE using re manufactured RDC CARS for economy. Also to St Augustine South Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: jaxlore on June 02, 2014, 03:34:27 PM Lake There needs to be three distinct core bike paths or lanes that connect downtown with San Marco, Riverside and Springfield. I believe in this town these paths\lanes need physical separation to truly be of benefit or people wont use them. Sharrow's wont work. Drivers ignore them. Riverside Ave or really any street the runs the length up until Roosevelt, it could be College and cut through the park and/or through the underpass park. For San Marco San Jose to Hendrix is the easiest and most direct route Springfield not sure as I don't frequent as much but if you give people a safe These could be tied into the Trolly service route planning it could kill two birds maybe? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: tufsu1 on June 02, 2014, 03:51:37 PM ^ The TPO did a regional bicycle master plan update last year. This year, they are expected to start a more indepth look at needs in the urban core and beaches areas. I suspect that connectivity between the neighborhoods mentioned above will be a major focus of that effort. That said, there are plans moving forward for better bicycle connectivity between downtown and San Marco, Riverside, and Springfield. projects such as the reconstruction of Riverplace Blvd. or the idea of a cycle track on Liberty Street do just that. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: simms3 on June 02, 2014, 05:04:00 PM Quote from: jaxlore on June 02, 2014, 12:10:46 PM The lack of bicycle infrastructure is ridiculous. how can they talk about bike share on one hand yet we still have the third most dangerous streets in the country for bike and pedestrians?
Agreed. Also, usually when cities discuss putting in less optimal transit options, it's because the most optimal became infeasible, either financially or politically. Jax hasn't even attempted to put in something optimal, and yet is already "discussing" very lessthanoptimal options for transit. That's a little weird. A skyway to 5 Points? Honestly, what are these people smoking? I don't believe the SLine should be commuter rail. I get it, there are standard gauge tracks available to use via commuter rail trains/frequency, which in a way is what the area possibly can support, however, a curcvy short line through a neighborhood that is urban by relative standards and is adjacent to downtown, with stops every half mile to mile, is not really what commuter rail is. The city should grow some balls and put in LRT from downtown going north and create a master plan for growth/TOD, put together some financial option for developers to be incentivized, and let things run their course. Instead, what happens is a bunch of nontransit people are way overthinking all of these
"master plans", getting them way wrong, and not actually implementing them anyway. The city is not in emergency growth mode, and can actually curb emergency runaway growth by better land use plans in the suburbs (i.e. the Mobility Plan). That would afford them time to devote all resources to getting something practical up and running, and THEN working on master plans for citywide growth/transit once there is some sort of direction and a viable option up and running to paint how implementation might work in Jax and what it would result in. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 06:33:22 PM By the way, this isn't local bullshit, this is the actual federal pot of money and process, which means that it won't get put on the mayor's shelf somewhere. It gets put into the dna of the federal funding. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 08:06:21 PM Feeling redfaced, Lake. I used to be better about checking the "unread" posts, as well as the Springfield forum, but I've been super busy the last couple of months, and haven't kept up on the other MJ topics as much as I had been in the past. I totally missed all of these. MJ needs one of those redfaced embarrassed emoticons. Not that the JTA pays any attention whatsoever to what the public wants, anyway, but at least we can tell them. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Redbaron616 on June 02, 2014, 08:24:11 PM Ah, yes, more government spending please. Let the poor smuck taxpayer take it on the chin. All these wonderful mass transit dreams never, ever pay for themselves so taxpayers just have to keep subsidizing everyone riding it. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a good plan unless you are into the politics of envy, divide and conquer. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Jaxson on June 02, 2014, 08:41:40 PM I sent an email with my concerns and got a prompt response. I was a bit snarky in my email, though, as I have grown tired of our area's lack of vision with regard to transit issues. I was happy to get a quick reply but I am still not holding my breath anytime soon. My fear is that the vast majority of Jacksonville people are content to be doomed to endless traffic problems and no real solutions to our problems... Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 08:43:36 PM Apologize for being so late to the party, but have posted on FB and am attempting to drum up comments before the deadline. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 08:46:19 PM Quote from: Redbaron616 on June 02, 2014, 08:24:11 PM Ah, yes, more government spending please. Let the poor smuck taxpayer take it on the chin. All these wonderful mass transit dreams never, ever pay for themselves so taxpayers just have to keep subsidizing everyone riding it. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a good plan unless you are into the politics of envy, divide and conquer.
Hmmm......wonder who's paying for that new beltway to more urban sprawl? Oh, wait! That serves surburbanites in gasguzzling SUV's who don't want to live in the urban core. So we need that. We just don't need to subsidize or provide bus service, street cars and other mass transit those others in the urban core would ride. :) Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 08:48:36 PM Quote from: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 06:33:22 PM By the way, this isn't local bullshit, this is the actual federal pot of money and process, which means that it won't get put on the mayor's shelf somewhere. It gets put into the dna of the federal funding.
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 08:49:03 PM Quote from: Redbaron616 on June 02, 2014, 08:24:11 PM Ah, yes, more government spending please. Let the poor smuck taxpayer take it on the chin. All these wonderful mass transit dreams never, ever pay for themselves so taxpayers just have to keep subsidizing everyone riding it. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a good plan unless you are into the politics of envy, divide and conquer.
Money earmarked for the 2040 Cost Feasible Plan will be split between a mix of transit, roads, bike, pedestrian, freight, safety, etc. projects. If you don't feel your money should be spent on transit and instead spent on something else, tell the TPO. If you think we should turn a blind eye on our entire infrastructure network and let it fall apart, you can tell them that too. Either way, engage the people who make these decisions instead of complaining about things that you can possibly shape by simply getting involved. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: IrvAdams on June 02, 2014, 09:27:54 PM ^^ +100% Well put, Lake. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: brainstormer on June 02, 2014, 10:13:32 PM I just took their online survey and emailed them my thoughts. It took all of 15 minutes. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 10:57:29 PM Great! I can't find the survey, but I sent an email. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: brainstormer on June 03, 2014, 06:34:05 AM ^ See if this link to the survey will work. https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh (https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh) Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: JeffreyS on June 03, 2014, 08:40:42 AM In 2007 I was optimistic about streetcar, commuter rail and modest skyway expansion. That
has changed I do not believe we will see any of it. The politicians aren't interested and JTA has sold out to the fake BRT nonsense. For what it's worth I think Jax should put all it's transit efforts into streetcar spreading out from the skyway. After a couple of core area lines are built connect them by converting the skyway into a raised streetcar line. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: IrvAdams on June 03, 2014, 08:47:52 AM Quote from: brainstormer on June 03, 2014, 06:34:05 AM ^ See if this link to the survey will work. https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh (https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/? SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh)
Thanks for the link, I missed it also on the feedback website. Great survey, doesn't take long. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 03, 2014, 09:14:35 AM Quote from: JeffreyS on June 03, 2014, 08:40:42 AM In 2007 I was optimistic about streetcar, commuter rail and modest skyway expansion. That has changed I do not believe we will see any of it. The politicians aren't interested and JTA has sold out to the fake BRT nonsense.
BRT never went away. However, we were successful in significantly modifying the crazy original billion dollar plan and getting the commuter rail/streetcar conversation going. To make them a reality, we'll have to continue to drive pressure to politicians to embrace them. If not, expect more roads in fringe areas and the exodus from the core and aging suburbs to continue. Quote For what it's worth I think Jax should put all it's transit efforts into streetcar spreading out from the skyway. After a couple of core area lines are built connect them by converting the skyway into a raised streetcar line.
This is something worth considering, IMO. Would be expensive upfront but makes sense on the surface. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: cline on June 03, 2014, 10:34:40 AM I just checked the TPO website and the agendas for both the TCC and CAC have an item requesting approval of the 2040 Needs Plan "that was presented for review at the May meeting". That's odd considering the comment period ends on the June 3 and the TCC meeting is on June 4. Are they going to incorporate public comments in one day before the Needs Plan is approved by those committees? Seems doubtful. Full TPO Board meeting is on June 12. Also, the Draft Cost Feasible Plan will be presented to the Board August 6th. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 03, 2014, 12:29:58 PM The website said the comment period for the Needs Plan was extended to June 3rd. I guess they wanted to allow the most time for public comment. So....everyone please send your input. Thanks for the survey link. Found it and took it. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax?
Post by: Tacachale on June 03, 2014, 04:21:24 PM I sent my thoughts over. Probably similar to what a lot of people around here would like to see. Hopefully it makes an impact. Title: THE OFFICIAL OCKLAWAHA 2040 TRANSIT PLAN Post by: Ocklawaha on June 03, 2014, 06:59:47 PM THE OFFICIAL OCKLAWAHA 2040 TRANSIT PLAN TPO Steering Committee Member, Robert W. Mann, ideas for 2040 MASS TRANSIT CONCEPT MAP KEY: key: Yellow Streetcar (including GatewayAP Randolph RapidStreetcar) Red BRT (International Basic BRT except SILVER or GOLD as noted by color) Teal Commuter Rail Purple Skyway Green Skywalk (http://www.scribblemaps.com/api/maps/images/450/450/1XJhSBhiyq.png) http://www.scribblemaps.com/maps/view/1XJhSBhiyq/ "TOLD YA I'D DO MORE BRT THEN JTA! hee hee hee! I do believe this map is achievable by 2040, but not with the current crop of driftwood guiding this place. A trend setting mass transit overhaul using two great innovations by two great world powers is sorely needed! Paved Highways = Via Appia = Roman Empire, circa 312 BC, The Appian Way (Latin and Italian: Via Appia) was one of the earliest and strategically most important Roman roads of the ancient republic. It connected Rome to Brindisi, Apulia, in southeast Italy. Railroads = The Diolkos = Greek Empire, 600 BC (Δίολκος, from the Greek διά, dia "across" and ὁλκός, holkos "portage machine") was a paved trackway near Corinth in Ancient Greece which enabled boats to be moved overland across the Isthmus of Corinth. Archaic Greece. Okay, so I'm a full service 'smart ass.' Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 03, 2014, 08:22:22 PM Will you be there tomorrow? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 03, 2014, 11:25:06 PM Somehow fell off the list, but I've got a email in to Ginny, if I get a high green, I'll be there! (FYI before somebody jumps off sides, 'HIGH GREEN' is a railroad term for 'go at track speed.')
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2014, 05:18:34 AM You have a high green. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 04, 2014, 11:18:42 AM I'll come hobbling in tonight! See you there. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: cline on June 17, 2014, 01:11:05 PM FYI...the Adopted Needs Plan has been posted on the TPO's website. There were changes made. The Skyway extension project that was proposed to go to Five Points has been changed to Streetcar (like in the 2035 Plan). It also looks like the proposed skyway project that was from FSCJ to Shands has also been changed to Streetcar. There is also asterisks on all the streetcar projects that state that "Mode to be determined by feasibility study". This is kind of dumb disclaimer since they are listed as "Streetcar" projects. If the mode is unknown why call it out specifically as a streetcar project. There may have been other changes made but I only looked at transit projects within the Downtown Riverside/Avondale area. http://pathforward2040.com/images/uploads/resources/201406 12_Table_Needs_Plan_Projects_.pdf Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 17, 2014, 01:48:48 PM I've been chasing this along for 34 years now, and those ** have come to have a totally different meaning. I now translate this as: ** Some kind of transit improvement, were writing the word 'streetcar' in the blank to call off the dogs, but we happen to know a PCT is just as cute, and OMG, Skyway is how the cow eats the cabbage in Jacksonville. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 17, 2014, 01:50:08 PM That's what JTA wanted because they really want to do Skyway. I haven't had a chance to see the revised maps. Are the transit routes from the 2035 LRTP or the substituted stuff that was initially added in the Needs Plan. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: cline on June 17, 2014, 01:55:35 PM Quote from: thelakelander on June 17, 2014, 01:50:08 PM That's what JTA wanted because they really want to do Skyway. I haven't had a chance to see the revised maps. Are the transit routes from the 2035 LRTP or the substituted stuff that was initially added in the Needs Plan.
It looks like it is the routes from the 2035 Plan but I haven't really taken the time to study it yet. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: cline on June 17, 2014, 02:09:41 PM
If you scroll to the end of this document you can see a project list that appears to show all the changes made to the Draft Need Plan. In the meeting notes there is also discussion about future transit projects. Specifically it says that all the descriptions will include skyway/streetcar for the future expansion of fixed guide way transit in downtown. http://pathforward2040.com/images/uploads/resources/Steering_Committee_Meeting_June_4_ _Agenda_Package_and_Meeting_Notes.pdf Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 17, 2014, 02:26:11 PM Frankly IMO, the revised route along the south and west edge of the Springfield Parks works better as a streetcar route as it could be sodded and landscaped, you don't interfere with the new 'Main Street' upgrade, and you could easily serve Bethel, FSCJ, Health Department, a couple of dense apartment complexes, the new VA clinic and end in the UF center on a loop. Little to no street running involved which takes typical streetcar up to the next levelmore like rapid transit. I also MUCH prefer Water/Independence to Bay Street, less traffic, more pedestrian friendly, close to Riverwalk, Landing, Hyatt, and it avoids duplication of the Skyway should it ever move east of Central Station. I also like it better as it moves the streetcar one block further down from any future crosstown run on Duval. Failure to include direct access to the old F&J rail line behind and running north from Maxwell House to Gateway would be something short of criminal. Skyway wise, seamless connections could be made with streetcar at Bay and Newnan Hogan and First Riverside and Forrest (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20Heritage%20Trolleys/ScreenShot2014 0617at22339PM_zpsf6b2fa16.png) THINK OFF STREET! Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Tacachale on June 17, 2014, 03:39:34 PM Sounds good that they listened on these fronts. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 17, 2014, 04:46:20 PM Yes. After the article went up that was posted here, they received 80 comments (over a day period) before the deadline, resulting in a change to what was originally being considered. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Tacachale on June 17, 2014, 07:46:31 PM That's terrific news, and testament to the power of the forum and the people who make it up. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: tufsu1 on June 17, 2014, 08:47:12 PM ^ agreed...but the sad part is there should have been no need for the outcry....its kind of perplexing that the project team started on a different path.
Metro Jacksonville Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: mvp on May 12, 2014, 05:13:17 PM
Title: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday Post by: mvp on May 12, 2014, 05:13:17 PM The North Florida TPO is holding another public meeting for the Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan: Thursday May 15, 2014 5 7 p.m. Historic Springfield Community Learning Center 1601 N Main St., 2nd Floor Jacksonville, FL 32206 Special Guest: The Honorable Corrine Brown Senior Member of the House Committee on Transportation & Infrastructure Title: Re: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday Post by: mvp on May 15, 2014, 02:34:46 PM Rain's tapering off, so if you're in the neighborhood please stop by and let transportation planners know your thoughts! The project list and maps are at http://pathforward2040.com/whatispathforward/resources/ (http://pathforward2040.com/whatispathforward/resources/). Title: Re: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday Post by: Ocklawaha on May 15, 2014, 02:50:05 PM Amazing, 4 of the 5 original Skyway terminals are back on the 'needs list.' As usual though, streetcar, skyway, bus, BRT and commuter rail all side by side along the south side and somewhat on the south west corridors. SMF 2.0 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
Metro Jacksonville Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on December 05, 2013, 03:00:01 AM
Title: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Metro Jacksonville on December 05, 2013, 03:00:01 AM Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? (http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2944161052_H4R5zhwM.jpg) Chamber leadership stresses the importance of investing in the port to our region’s economy while JTA is developing a blueprint for enhanced transit services. Bicycle and pedestrian advocates continue to ask for enhanced access and safety while private companies, like Uber, seek to fill a niche in our market. With needs so extensive and diverse, how can we plan an integrated transportation network that works for everyone? Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013decchooseyourpaththebest transportationinvestments Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: tufsu1 on December 05, 2013, 08:22:59 AM Why is the budget allocation set with an automatic allocation of $46 to roads and $54 for the other 9 categories? Is there a reason why $100 out of $130 has already been spoken for. Couldn't priorities be changed? Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: cline on December 05, 2013, 08:39:34 AM Yeah that doesn't make sense. Clearly I don't have much say in allocating if the majority of the money is already spoken for and placed in the "Widen Roads" catagory. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 09:27:35 AM One can only assume that the construction of wider roads will remain a higher priority than investment in other forms of mobility throughout most of the region. I say this, because it says "this amount represents planned spending and cannot be moved." While probably true in most of our suburban and rural areas (really most of our region), the automatic allocation will most likely taint the results of identifying true public sentiment. So when I dispersed my budget money, widening roads ended up with the same base number that had been preallocated. In the Alternative solutions section, it provides you with predetermined solutions to prioritize. What if you don't agree with all of the predetermined solutions you're asked to rank by desired priority? For example, in the expand transit section, you're asked to rank your desired priority of the following solutions: Expand bus services (adding new routes) Enhancing bus services using BRT (higher speed buses with fewer stops) Trolley services (smaller buses) Commuter rail (trains operating on railroads) In my opinion, commuter rail (specifically connecting Clay to DT) is the only thing on there with a remote chance at cracking my top 4. Instead of expanding the bus system, I'd rather see the network possibly reduced if it makes higher used corridors more efficient and reliable. Enhancing bus services using BRT (as currently proposed locally) would be closer to the depth of hell than near the bottom of my list. Trolley services (smaller buses) are pretty insignificant to me as well.
Oh, and where are the options for streetcar, light rail, skyway expansion, etc.? Some of us actually would like Jax to join the rest of the world in the 21st century. Because of their importance in stimulating TOD and economic development, I'd rank these options higher than all four items we're forced to select from. In the end, I skipped prioritizing projects I don't agree with being listed and spent more time filling out the "other" option. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: cline on December 05, 2013, 09:35:10 AM Quote from: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 09:27:35 AM One can only assume that the construction of wider roads will remain a higher priority than investment in other forms of mobility throughout most of the region. I say this, because it says "this amount represents planned spending and cannot be moved." While probably true in most of our suburban and rural areas (really most of our region), the automatic allocation will most likely taint the results of identifying true public sentiment. So when I dispersed my budget money, widening roads ended up with the same base number that had been preallocated. In the Alternative solutions section, it provides you with predetermined solutions to prioritize. What if you don't agree with all of the predetermined solutions you're asked to rank by desired priority? For example, in the expand transit section, you're asked to rank your desired priority of the following solutions: Expand bus services (adding new routes) Enhancing bus services using BRT (higher speed buses with fewer stops) Trolley services (smaller buses) Commuter rail (trains operating on railroads) In my opinion, commuter rail (specifically connecting Clay to DT) is the only thing on there with a remote chance at cracking my top 4. Instead of expanding the bus system, I'd rather see the network possibly reduced if it makes higher used corridors more efficient and reliable. Enhancing bus services using BRT (as currently proposed locally) would be closer to the depth of hell than near the bottom of my list. Trolley services (smaller buses) are pretty insignificant to me as well. Oh, and where are the options for streetcar, light rail, skyway expansion, etc.? Some of us actually would like Jax to join the rest of the world in the 21st century. Because of their importance in stimulating TOD and economic development, I'd rank these options higher than all four items we're forced to select from. In the end, I skipped prioritizing projects I don't agree with being listed and spent more time filling out the "other" option.
All very true. In my opinion, if you're going to engage the public and ask them to allocate resources based on what they would like to see, then the public should not be limited in its ability to actually allocate resources to transportation improvements they see fit. Otherwise, like you said, it doesn't represent true public sentiment. If you're only going to allow $30 of the $130 to actually be allocated according to what the public would like to see it's almost like "what's the point?" Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: mvp on December 05, 2013, 12:15:04 PM The reason that there are limits on the funding you can allocate is that the funding sources (federal and state) define specific types of projects that the funds can be spent on so the TPO does not have the flexibility to change the state and federals laws. For example, you can't take transit funding from the FTA and use it for highways. Of course you could create a new funding source, like taxes or fees, and dedicate to whatever projects you like. If you have other solutions you would like to be included, you can email them to info@pathforward2040.com. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 12:52:34 PM That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Hopefully, mobility fee revenue can be generated to assist locally. If I read my budget allocation in comparison to other participants right, it appears people do want to see more money dedicated to alternative forms of mobility. Cool game. I'd encourage anyone who hasn't tried, to give it a shot. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments?
Post by: tufsu1 on December 05, 2013, 03:27:35 PM Quote from: mvp on December 05, 2013, 12:15:04 PM The reason that there are limits on the funding you can allocate is that the funding sources (federal and state) define specific types of projects that the funds can be spent on so the TPO does not have the flexibility to change the state and federals laws. For example, you can't take transit funding from the FTA and use it for highways.
Actually that isn't completely true anymore. MPOs have the ability to flex some of the dollars if they choose. Plus, roadway money doesn't have to be spent on widening roads as the allocation implies. It can just as easily be spent on making complete streets. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 04:08:57 PM ^I kind of assumed with a change in policy, all roadway widening projects would be either complete or context sensitive streets based projects. I didn't allocate any cash to truck movement because it seems that the money already dedicated to roads, intersection improvements, etc. would facilitate this. However, I would have loved to see some more diversity with the transit solutions. We all know what JTA wants and has proposed but I'd love to see a survey validate if the community is truly in agreement with those visions or not. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Charles Hunter on December 05, 2013, 08:12:11 PM Lake, may I borrow those rosecolored glasses you are wearing? You are much more optimistic than I about the coming of Context Sensitive / Complete Streets. I have seen no indication from any of the road agencies to move in that direction. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2013, 08:21:31 PM The way I see it, we're talking 2040. Most of the stuff that ends up in the LRTP will still be a decade or two from design, much less construction. IMO, we'll be pulled kicking and screaming to embrace and fund some of these concepts as the rest of the world changes around us and existing shot callers retire and die out. However, the transition could easily be longer than a decade. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: sheclown on December 06, 2013, 08:13:22 AM Joe and I attended the JTA Community Advisory Group Meeting (CAG) last night at the Legends Center (which by the way wow what a cool space who would have known that place was there). From the community comments to the leadership of JTA last night. "ride the bus, ride it every day for a month and this will tell you all you need to know" "nobody wanna take you anywhere for $1.50" "we need a transportation system like Phoenix" "we need to hand out more bus passes to the prisoner reentry program" "bus drivers are rude, but getting better" "transfers are a nightmare" and from a man I had not met before "use places like Metrojacksonville to get the word out" Below are the meeting dates, times and locations if you are interested, show up and give your 2 cents: Tuesday, Dec 10, 67 @ St. Vincents Auditorium C
Wednesday, Dec 11, 56 @ FSCJ downtown, Adv Tech Ctr, Room T140 Thursday, Dec 12, 67 @ FSCJ Kent campus, Room E1112 Tuesday, Dec 17, 67 @ Arlington Sr. Ctr, 1078 Rogero Rd If you cannot attend, you can email comments to Carl Weckenmann, JTA. cweckenmann@jtafla.com Other issues brought up were transfers from one bus to another (often bus drivers don't wait for passengers to unload from one bus before pulling out). The length of travel time. The rude behavior of the bus drivers (although that has improved). The lack of bus passes. Mainly the difficulty in getting from one place to another. JTA admits that there are problems and that it wants input from the community. Since the purpose of the CAG is to give community input about transportation issues, how does this work with the North Florida TPO? How do these groups work together?
Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Charles Hunter on December 06, 2013, 06:01:03 PM The JTA has a seat on the TPO Board, and there are 2 from the JTA staff on the TPO's Technical Committee. As with any federal transportation funds, any federal dollars JTA gets/spends must be approved by the TPO. For big stuff like commuter rail or BRT or streetcar it has to be in the Long Range Plan. Operating items, including bus purchases, have to be in the five year budget (TIP). It looks like the JTA's meetings are about short or mid term service issues, which the TPO would not get involved with. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: sheclown on December 06, 2013, 06:45:38 PM Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 06, 2013, 06:01:03 PM The JTA has a seat on the TPO Board, and there are 2 from the JTA staff on the TPO's Technical Committee. As with any federal transportation funds, any federal dollars JTA gets/spends must be approved by the TPO. For big stuff like commuter rail or BRT or streetcar it has to be in the Long Range Plan. Operating items, including bus purchases, have to be in the five year budget (TIP). It looks like the JTA's meetings are about short or mid term service issues, which the TPO would not get involved with.
I specifically asked that question and was told the CAGs will deal with both the short term and plan for the long term issues. And all issues are very important, IMHO. Thanks for the info Charles, but could I get more? Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: tufsu1 on December 06, 2013, 09:57:18 PM ^ you should call someone at JTA and/or the TPO and ask how they coordinate Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Redbaron616 on December 09, 2013, 12:35:55 PM Investment? Government? The two never mix. Government will spend twice as much to built something as a profitmotivated company could. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: tufsu1 on December 09, 2013, 01:41:33 PM Quote from: Redbaron616 on December 09, 2013, 12:35:55 PM Investment? Government? The two never mix. Government will spend twice as much to built something as a profitmotivated company could.
that isn't necessarily true and you know it...although some of the projects could be funded by private interests. Also, private companies do tend to spend less money when they skirt things like public involvement, environmental impact analyses, etc. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: mvp on December 09, 2013, 02:19:19 PM tufsu1 is right about the flexible funding there is some discretion, thus the $30 in the game. In terms of coordination, JTA plans, builds and operates transit facilities and services in Jacksonvile. The TPO programs projects receiving federal funds in Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns counties. They work together, with public input, to decide which projects will be in the Long Range Transportation Plan. Here's a link to the TPO's Board and Committees: http://http://www.northfloridatpo.com/north_florida_tpo/board_committees/ The 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan includes BRT, Commuter Rail and Streetcars details here: http://www.northfloridatpo.com/images/uploads/general/LRTP_summbrochure.pdf the 2040 Long Range Plan will update this. What should be added to/deleted from this list? In addition to the asset allocation game, there's a survey with more openended questions and choices https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh. Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: sheclown on December 09, 2013, 03:01:50 PM That is very helpful. Thanks! Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: stephendare on July 05, 2014, 03:20:01 PM Quote from: Redbaron616 on December 09, 2013, 12:35:55 PM Government will spend twice as much to built something as a profitmotivated company could.
Yes. As a result the Hoover Dam is still around and functioning. And the nations Highways. And most of the Federal buildings that have ever been built. There is a difference between doing something right and doing something in order to cut costs so that you can get a higher return from some sucker with cash red baron.
Title: Re: Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? Post by: Ocklawaha on July 05, 2014, 05:00:14 PM This is true, you can count on big government projects, but you better watch the fine print lest they plan your life too. In our case, for 30+ years the streetcar has had popular support of the population and complete and total lip service, deception, smoke and mirrors and dog and pony shows from JTA. We were FIRST with an idea, and today we'll be somewhere beyond 70Th. But don't worry, JTA stacked the TPO and suggested we convert the streetcars from the 2030 plan into the Skyway in the 2040 plan. The TPO is perhaps on the fence, but without enormous focus, organization and public outcry, I think I know where this will end up. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/ScreenShot2014 0705at34949PM_zps50336e79.png) (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/ScreenShot2014 0705at34745PM_zpsf0599b86.png) Trust us, it will be 'JUST LIKE RAIL ONLY CHEAPER.'
Metro Jacksonville Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: spuwho on April 16, 2014, 10:59:27 PM
Title: North Florida TPO Meetings Planned Path Forward 2040 Post by: spuwho on April 16, 2014, 10:59:27 PM NF TPO is having meetings to discuss the Path Forward 2040 plan throughout NE Florida. Please go to the TPO Meetings page to get the date and time for your area. http://www.northfloridatpo.com/meetings_agendas_minutes/ (http://www.northfloridatpo.com/meetings_agendas_minutes/) The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization is developing the 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan to meet the needs of our diverse and growing region. Should we have more roads, transit options, bike lanes or sidewalks? How should we invest in technology, safety, our port and alternative fuel infrastructure? Come to the meeting and share your ideas. SMF 2.0 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
TPO long-range plans include harbor deepening and First Coast Expressway, will cost ne... Page 1 of 2
From the Jacksonville Business Journal :http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/09/17/tpo-long-range-plans-include-harbordeepening-and.html
TPO long-range plans include harbor deepening and First Coast Expressway, will cost nearly $8 billion Sep 17, 2014, 2:38pm EDT Updated: Sep 17, 2014, 3:36pm EDT
Jensen Werley Reporter- Jacksonville Business Journal Email | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization is adding about 20 new projects to its priority list the next 25 years, the most costly being a $118 million interchange modification to the junction of Interstates 10 295. The priority list consists of projects that will be worked on over the next five years, kicking off the long-range plans for the following two decades. Projects that were not fully funded in the 2035 plan that was adopted in 2009 as well as new ones like the I-10 project make up the list. All of the projects for the next 25 years will cost about $7.8 billion, with funds coming from federal, state and local sources. Much will be funded by the local option gas tax, funds from the Turnpike and grant money, said Denise Bunnewith, project manager for the TPO. The adoption of the long-range plan consists of two phases, she said. The first is to identify all of the area's transportation needs. Then the TPO fine-tunes it, looks at projected revenue and return of investment and prioritizes by regional significance. Now, the TPO is reaching out to the public to get its feedback. It is hosting five public meetings — the next being for Duval County on Sept. 23 — to hear which projects Jacksonville residents are passionate about. The first Duval County meeting was Tuesday, Clay County is Wednesday, followed by Nassau on Thursday and St. Johns County on Monday. "Before it's finalized, we want to get input," Bunnewith said. The public results will be reported at the October meeting, and the plan will be adopted in November.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/09/17/tpo-long-range-plans-include-h... 9/22/2014
TPO long-range plans include harbor deepening and First Coast Expressway, will cost ne... Page 2 of 2
The projects will cost about $7.8 billion. However, at the most recent TPO meeting Sept. 11, Executive Director Jeff Sheffield told the board that if it adopted all 700 projects in the needs plan, it would cost about $27 billion. Many of the last long-range projects were already funded, Bunnewith said. "That's a good thing to happen," she said. The TPO was able to add new projects from its long list of needs to the new plan because of this. The long-range plan is necessary, said Marci Larson, communications director for the TPO, if the area wants to be eligible for state and federal funding. "In Northeast Florida, about $600 million for projects has been distributed recently," she said. "We have to get the project in the right place, so if funding is available, we're ready and can take advantage of it." The plan is broken up into several categories, including special, local projects for each county. On a rotating basis, each county has a year in which it is a priority. This prevents a project in Clay County from being overlooked in favor of a Duval County project. "We can go county by county and say, 'This is your year' with the allocation of funds," she said. "They can select from the needs plan, or, if they've done their own research, can select a different project." A large number of the projects will be covered over time by the gas tax and the extension of it. Bicyclist and pedestrian needs alone will get $30 million — a mere 6 percent of the funds created by the gas tax. The First Coast Expressway, commonly known as the Outer Beltway, will also be funded sustainably: funds generated from the Florida Turnpike will build it. By creating the long-range plan, not only is Northeast Florida ready for funding, it can establish what is important to the area, Bunnewith said. Although funding for the harbor deepening is not readily available, it was included in the long-range plan to show the TPO values the project and wants to see it done. Others, such as projects for the St. Johns River Ferry, were listed in the budget as a necessary step to be eligible for discretionary grants. The long-range plan is also necessary, Bunnewith said, because these particular projects are so expensive and take so much time. A project can appear on two or three of these lists before it gets under way. "We're lucky," she said. "We've seen a lot of projects move forward." Jensen covers logistics, manufacturing and defense
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/09/17/tpo-long-range-plans-include-h... 9/22/2014
TPO long-range plans include harbor deepening and First Coast Expressway, will cost ne... Page 4 of 5
Jensen Werley Reporter- Jacksonville Business Journal Email | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization is adding about 20 new projects to its priority list the next 25 years, the most costly being a $118 million interchange modification to the junction of Interstates 10 295. The priority list consists of projects that will be worked on over the next five years, kicking off the long-range plans for the following two decades. Projects that were not fully funded in the 2035 plan that was adopted in 2009 as well as new ones like the I-10 project make up the list. All of the projects for the next 25 years will cost about $7.8 billion, with funds coming from federal, state and local sources. Much will be funded by the local option gas tax, funds from the Turnpike and grant money, said Denise Bunnewith, project manager for the TPO. The adoption of the long-range plan consists of two phases, she said. The first is to identify all of the area's transportation needs. Then the TPO finetunes it, looks at projected revenue and return of investment and prioritizes by regional significance. Now, the TPO is reaching out to the public to get its feedback. It is hosting five public meetings — the next being for Duval County on Sept. 23 — to hear which projects Jacksonville residents are passionate about. The first Duval County meeting was Tuesday, Clay County is Wednesday, followed by Nassau on Thursday and St. Johns County on Monday. "Before it's finalized, we want to get input," Bunnewith said. The public results will be reported at the October meeting, and the plan will be adopted in November. The projects will cost about $7.8 billion. However, at the most recent TPO meeting Sept. 11, Executive Director Jeff Sheffield told the board that if it adopted all 700 projects in the needs plan, it would cost about $27 billion. • Page 1 • 2 • 3 |View All
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/09/17/tpo-long-range-plans-include-h... 9/18/2014
Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan The North Florida TPO will host a series of public meetings over the next two weeks to get input on transportation needs for the next 2025 years. Transportation projects must be included in the Long Range Transportation Plan to receive federal funding. Published April 18, 2014 in Transportation MetroJacksonville.com
The meetings will feature maps and lists of potential project needs identified during the last long range plan update, as well as numerous studies that included public input. The potential projects will be displayed at five stations: Bicycle and Pedestrian; Transit; Freight; Road Capacity; Safety and TSM&O (Transportation System Management & Operations). You will have the opportunity to “vote” for how much to invest in these categories by allocating 10 tokens among the stations. The TPO is also seeking comments on specific projects and recommendations for additional projects to consider. Public Meetings All meetings are 5 – 7 p.m. St. Johns County Tuesday April 15
St. Augustine Commission Chambers Alcazar Room, first floor of City Hall 75 King Street, St. Augustine Clay County Thursday April 17 ThrasherHorne Center 283 College Drive, Orange Park Baker County Tuesday April 22 Baker County Commission Chambers 55 North 3rd Street, Macclenny Nassau County Wednesday April 23 Nassau County Commission Chambers 96135 Nassau Place, Yulee Duval County Thursday April 24 FSCJ Deerwood 9911 Old Baymeadows Road, Jacksonville Putnam County Monday April 28 Putnam County Commission Chambers 2509 Crill Avenue, Palatka Maps and lists of potential projects will be posted at http://pathforward2040.com/whatispath forward/resources/ late Tuesday April 15. The TPO is also arranging small group meetings with neighborhood, civic and business organizations. If you would like a study presentation at your meeting, please contact Marci Larson at (904) 306 7513. After this round of meetings, the projects will be evaluated based on Goals, Objectives and Performance Measures that address economic competitiveness; livability; safety; mobility and accessibility; equity in decision making; and system preservation, as well as projected future revenue. Another round of public meetings with the final proposed “Cost Feasible” projects will be held in August/September. For more information visit Path Forward 2040 website.
This article can be found at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014aprpublicmeetingson 2040longrangetransportationplan
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Metro Jacksonville » Community » Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure » Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan
Pages: [1]
Author Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
Topic: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan (Read 1070 times) Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « on: April 16, 2014, 11:40:02 PM »
Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan
Posts: 2661
The North Florida TPO will host a series of public meetings over the next two weeks to get input on transportation needs for the next 2025 years. Transportation projects must be included in the Long Range Transportation Plan to receive federal funding. Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014aprpublicmeetingson2040longrangetransportationplan
mvp Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 05:18:19 PM »
Meeting tonight at ThrasherHorne Center in Orange Park. The project list and maps under discussion are at: http://pathforward2040.com/whatispathforward/resources/
spuwho Hero Member
Posts: 2632
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 08:54:33 PM »
At least Ock's Streetcar is still in the transit plan. First time I noticed that they want to run commuter rail all the way into Fernandina. BRT down Beach Boulevard, I am still skeptical on that one.
tufsu1 Hero Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 08:18:04 AM »
^ that was in the early JTA plans....but was later cut back to Yulee for cost reasons. The Needs Plan is kind of like a wish list and goes well beyond what could be afforded by 2040. The cut down to affordability will happen in the summer and fall of this year.
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thelakelander Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
Posts: 23524
cline Hero Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 08:34:18 AM »
Basically. Anyone who has an ideal should submit it to the TPO for consideration. This is a chance to work certain projects into the region's actual transportation plans.
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #5 on: April 18, 2014, 08:56:14 AM »
The transit map is not really a "Needs Plan" map since it shows mostly existing bus routes, facilities etc. The map would be more useful if it only showed proposed needs projects. It is also pretty much impossible to read what is going on DT on that map.
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thelakelander Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
Posts: 23524
mvp Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 09:29:56 AM »
Yeah, it is hard to read. I've seen some earlier maps that had some pretty weird streetcar routes and that did not include all of the 2030 Mobility Plan transit, bike and ped projects. It's hard to see if those have been added to this version.
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 11:04:12 AM »
There's an inset below the legend you can zoom in on, but yes still a bit challenging to see. It's easier to look at the project list to see what specifically is included. Here's a summary of the proposed projects from the list:
BRT in addition to current four corridors that are currently in process, service from Regency to the Avenues Mall, Gateway to JIA and the Avenues to S Johns County Government complex. Skyway Extensions from the central station to the stadium, central station to Brooklyn/Forest St., Forest St. to Five Points, Kings Ave. to Atlantic Blvd. in San Marco, and FSJC station to Shands. Streetcar From Five Points to King St. in Riverside to FSCJ Kent Campus, and from Atlantic Blvd. in San Marco to Baptist Hospital/MOSH Commuter Rail From downtown transportation center individual lines each to Yulee, Baldwin, Green Cove Springs, Callahan and St. Augustine. Additional extensions from Green Cove to Palatka, Yulee to Fernandina Beach, and St. Augustine to Palm Coast. Mayport Ferry service and capital improvements St. Johns County is also asking for local bus expansion.
Duval County Public Meeting is Thursday, 4/24, 57 PM at FSCJ Deerwood. In addition to seeking comments and additions to the "Needs Plan" list, the TPO is asking people to weigh in on how investment should be allocated for the region across five categories. Divide 100% among: Bike/Ped Transit Road Capacity Freight Safety/Transportation systems management and operations (technology)
Ocklawaha Phd. Ferroequinology Global Moderator Hero Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 08:32:36 PM »
A disjointed streetcar system is DOA. The system MUST be anchored downtown. Taking BRT all the way to St. Augustine is simply, apocalyptic in view of the adjacent FEC RY and the likelihood of All Aboard Florida. The 'S' line and the F&J below Springfield yard are ignored. Lem Turner BRT should terminate at the Airport via the Free Trade Zone.
No BRT on the Arlington Expressway is missing our easiest chance for a median based, internationally ranked Silver Level system.
Posts: 10574 Monster of Mobility! Ocklawaha is Robert Mann
thelakelander Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
Posts: 23524
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 09:03:01 PM »
^Make a public comment about this, since you won't be able to attend the meetings: Quote Comments & Suggestions Please share your comments and suggestions for the Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan: info@pathforward2040.com or post via Facebook at the bottom of the page 904.306.7500 TDD 904.306.7502 Fax 904.306.7501 North Florida TPO 1022 Prudential Drive Jacksonville, FL 32207
http://pathforward2040.com/getinvolved/
thelakelander Metro Jacksonville Hero Member
Posts: 23524
ProjectMaximus Hero Member
Posts: 1846
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 09:10:58 PM »
^^At a minimum, for Duval County, the 2035 LRTP cost feasible transit projects need to be included in the 2040 needs plan. Not really sure where the modifications to the streetcar and BRT lines came from. Nevertheless, both aren't ideal for either mode (BRT or streetcar).
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 11:09:00 PM »
The NFTPO was involved in the electric car rally a few weeks back. We covered the map with dots for desired charging stations. Apparently they do expect to have real funding/partnerships to actually move forward on some, but the total number of stations is laughable.
Know Growth Sr. Member
Posts: 388
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 09:05:39 PM »
"Thrasher" ('Horne,Pittman,King et al ) pretty much defined 'future' events seen here.Join in! You might even glimpse a hint of The Belt Way.
Not that a Beltway,even Belt Way Transport Alternative would eventually become reality. The Process was Most about Clay development dreams,stemmi back to the 60's. The prospect of Clay countians marching in step,five days a week ( Ten total!!!!...done did that,became Avondale ASS!....) in to Duval,and.....yikes!!.....back....... might be a bit,well,antiquated. After all, this was a conversation (long ago JTA et al) Anne Grimes and I had decades ago the ridiculous prospect of commuters grinding up and down Blanding Blvd.Ended up basically End of Subject. Since revised to encompass outlying county empahasis on in county employment centers. Somehow get Reinhold Corp to contribute to this thread or simply consider closing It. If you can somehow get Reinhold to reveal,you might in fact become energized about future prospect beyond what I darkly profile here. Then catch up.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 09:21:51 PM by Know Growth »
tufsu1 Hero Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 10:02:10 PM »
^ English please
Posts: 10810
AuditoreEnterprise Sr. Member
Re: Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan « Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 10:11:59 PM »
I really like the idea of the commuter rails going out to Yulee and areas like that. I think if that happens it is going to encourage people in cities where the is not really that much to do to venture downtown and make Jacksonville more connected as a whole. After all most major cities have that type of system in place. Definitely a step in the right direction in my eyes.
Posts: 468 audentes fortuna juvat
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Metro Jacksonville » Community » Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure » Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday
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Author mvp Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Topic: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday (Read 435 times) Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday « on: May 12, 2014, 05:13:17 PM »
The North Florida TPO is holding another public meeting for the Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan: Thursday May 15, 2014 5 7 p.m. Historic Springfield Community Learning Center 1601 N Main St., 2nd Floor Jacksonville, FL 32206 Special Guest: The Honorable Corrine Brown Senior Member of the House Committee on Transportation & Infrastructure
mvp Jr. Member
Posts: 77
Ocklawaha Phd. Ferroequinology Global Moderator Hero Member
Re: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday « Reply #1 on: May 15, 2014, 02:34:46 PM »
Rain's tapering off, so if you're in the neighborhood please stop by and let transportation planners know your thoughts! The project list and maps are at http://pathforward2040.com/whatispathforward/resources/.
Re: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday « Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 02:50:05 PM »
Amazing, 4 of the 5 original Skyway terminals are back on the 'needs list.' As usual though, streetcar, skyway, bus, BRT and commuter rail all side by side along the south side and somewhat on the south west corridors.
Posts: 10574 Monster of Mobility! Ocklawaha is Robert Mann
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Metro Jacksonville » Community » Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure » Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday
Jump to: => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure
Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Due to the lack of public engagement in our community over the last few months, the future of transit investment may be dramatically altered for the worse. Metro Jacksonville has become a popular place for ideas and quality conversation on improving mass transit throughout North Florida. However, we're failing to advance these ideas into reality because of a lack of involvement where it really counts. Tomorrow is the deadline for your comments and suggestions involving the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization's 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan. If you care about what type of transportation investments are destined for your neighborhood's future, this is your opportunity to have your ideas, thoughts, concerns and suggestions included in the planning process. Published June 2, 2014 in Transportation MetroJacksonville.com
Why do we need a Long Range Transportation Plan (LRTP)?
Federal regulations require all metropolitan planning organizations to prepare a Long Range Transportation Plan that addresses multimodal transportation needs over at least a 20year horizon. The plan for Northeast Florida (Baker, Clay, Duval, Nassau, Putnam and St. Johns Counties) must be updated every three to five years. Projects included in the adopted Cost Feasible Plan must have
funding identified. To be considered for the Cost Feasible Plan, a project must first be on the Needs Plan list.
How is it used after it is created?
The Plan is used to decide which transportation projects are advanced and funded. In order to receive federal funds, a project must be in the Long Range Transportation Plan. Projects are selected from the LRTP for the fiveyear Transportation Improvement Program (TIP).
How do transportation projects get funded?
A funding source must be identified for a project to be in the LRTP Cost Feasible Plan. Projects selected from the LRTP for the TIP have funding programmed for study, design, rightofway, utilities and construction as available. Funding comes primarily from state and federal allocations and grants.
2035 LRTP Cost Feasible Plan Projects
Current transit projects eligible for future federal funding assistance are shown above and described below: Green (Dashed) Commuter rail lines from downtown Jacksonville to Baker (I), Clay (H), Nassau (F) and St. Johns (G) Counties. Orange (Dashed) Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) routes to Arlington (A), Avenues Mall (D), Lem Turner Road Walmart (B) and Orange Park Mall (E). Orange Streetcar system connecting downtown Jacksonville with Springfield (L), Riverside (N) and Everbank Field (K). Blue Existing Skyway system For more information on the 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan
Current 2040 transit projects being considered
With little input from the community, transit projects in the core of the city have been dramatically altered from previous planning efforts. Major changes include:
1. Elimination of the streetcar network included in the 2030 Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP Cost Feasible Plan. 2. Springfield's Main Street streetcar route would be replaced by a Skyway extension that appears to go down Pearl Street to access UF Health Jacksonville. This route would run parallel the proposed North BRT Corridor, which will be two blocks to the west. 3. A Skyway extension to Five Points would possibly run down Riverside Avenue to Post Street, before terminating at Riverside Park. 4. A new Riverside streetcar loop would connect the Five Points Skyway extension to Fairfax and Avondale. 5. Additional Skyway extensions to the Stadium District's parking garages via Duval Street and to San Marco, along Hendricks Avenue are being considered. 6. While not shown in this map, the latest route for the north commuter rail line would utilize existing CSX track north of Gateway Mall, as opposed to the SLine. The positive is such a route could provide direct connectivity between downtown, the Farmers Market and Gateway Mall. It would also be cheaper than rebuilding the SLine Urban Greenway to accommodate rail. The negatives would be that districts ideal for infill and redevelopment, such as Durkeeville, Mrytle Avenue, UF Health Jacksonville, New Springfield and the Springfield Warehouse District would be left out of the mix.
The Basic LRTP Planning Process
A sketch of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority's proposed downtown Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) line.
1. Development of Needs Plan Based on the community's understanding of the demand for future travel, multimodal transportation projects will be identified to meet this demand. At the point the project list is focused on needs and not restrained by cost, however it is known that our needs will exceed the funding available through the year 2040. If your idea is not included in the Needs Plan, it will not be eligible for inclusion into the Cost Feasible Plan or eligible for federal funding between now and 2040.
2. Develop Cost Feasible Plan The Cost Feasible Plan will identify projects from the Needs Plan that are financially feasible, provide the greatest return on investment, and are consistent with the policies, goals and objectives. This plan defines our path forward for investments to 2040. The Cost Feasible Plan is required by federal legislation and will focus on the fourcounty area of Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns. If your idea is not included in the Cost Feasible Plan, it will not be eligible for federal funding between now and 2040.
3. Adopt & Document Final Plan
The final Cost Feasible Plan must be approved by the North Florida TPO Board by December 2014. Reports documenting each step of the planning process will be prepared. If your idea is not included in the Cost Feasible Plan, it will not be eligible for federal funding between now and 2040.
4. What this means for Metro Jacksonville Readers In short, if a transportation idea is not included in the Long Range Transportation Plan, it will most likely will not become reality over the next 20 years because it will not be eligible for federal funding assistance.
5. How to get your idea considered for inclusion to the LRTP? The Comment Period deadline for the Needs Plan is Tuesday, June 3, 2014. Maybe you like the projects in the existing 2035 plan or the alternatives in the 2040 Needs Plan. Perhaps there's another idea you believe is better than what's illustrated in both plans. In any event, make your thoughts known before it's too late. Getting your comments and suggestions considered for inclusion into the LRTP is just as easy as replying online to this article, twitter or average facebook post. Better yet, take a minute and send your thoughts and suggestions today to http://info@pathforward2040.com.
Redevelopment opportunities in under utilized core neighborhoods such as the Springfield Warehouse District would be possibly lost if the 2040 Needs Plan route for commuter rail, replaces the current S Line connection. For more information on the 2040 Needs Plan. Link includes maps of proposed roadway, bike/pedestrian, freight projects. This article can be found at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014jundoyoucareabout thefutureoftransitinjax
Copyright MetroJacksonville.com
Metro Jacksonville Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on June 02, 2014, 03:00:02 AM
Title: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Metro Jacksonville on June 02, 2014, 03:00:02 AM Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? (http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3173864585_nC7QmfDM.jpg) Due to the lack of public engagement in our community over the last few months, the future of transit investment may be dramatically altered for the worse. Metro Jacksonville has become a popular place for ideas and quality conversation on improving mass transit throughout North Florida. However, we're failing to advance these ideas into reality because of a lack of involvement where it really counts. Tomorrow is the deadline for your comments and suggestions involving the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization's 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan. If you care about what type of transportation investments are destined for your neighborhood's future, this is your opportunity to have your ideas, thoughts, concerns and suggestions included in the planning process. Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014jundoyoucareaboutthefuture oftransitinjax Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: fieldafm on June 02, 2014, 09:48:48 AM This is an interesting article. I think I'm more informed than the average Jaxson about transportation in the city, however I feel totally blindsided by some of these decisions. It seems as though some of these projects (that anyone with even a belowaverage understanding of costbenefit analysis could tell are losers) replaced other much more viable projects, intentionally to steer future money away from citybuilding and neighborhood enhancing projects in favor of more roadbuidling on the peripheral edges of the county/region. I'd encourage everyone reading to write in and give their thoughts. My suggestions: Scrap the Five Points Skyway extension (that would fail virtually all viable testing methods, the streetcar utilizing a similar route would not) Bring back the Riverside Streetcar (a project in the Mobility Plan that was reflective of community input) For that matter, bring back the entire streetcar network included in the 2030 Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP Cost Feasible Plan. Bring back the Sline rail line (a project in the Mobility Plan that was reflective of community input, and a project that has proven nationwide to spur major redevelopment opportunities that more than make up for the cost of building the system) Bring back the Springfield streetcar project (a project in the Mobility Plan that was reflective of community input), and scrap the Skyway expansion into Springfield (presumably inserted as the streetcar would pass viability tests, and the Skyway would not… thereby shifting money to more beltway projects) Scrap the San Marco streetcar expansion, in favor of a Skyway expansion (at grade) to the FEC crossing thereby connecting San Marco Square with downtown (and potentially Riverside). Scrap the Fairfax/Avondale streetcar plan (something that neighboring residents would stop at all costs… thereby shifting money to more beltway projects).
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Tacachale on June 02, 2014, 09:49:04 AM Thanks. What is Metro Jacksonville's take on the changes? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 09:56:10 AM We need to get together a plate of suggestions for emails And these have to be in by the end of Tomorrow?
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Bridges on June 02, 2014, 10:19:29 AM I went to the "meeting/presentation" in Springfield two weeks ago. There was absolutely no one from the community there for at least the 30 minutes I was there. Literally it was just me for most of the time (the input meeting had the unfortunate timing as being at the same time as a community meeting on Ability Housing). I don't know much about the projects, but NFTPO had a nice layout and voting system setup. I was absolutely shocked about the lack of pedestrian and bike transportation projects. These were lumped together with some streetcar level plans too. I had to ask for clarification that this was the plan for 2040. It didn't even look like a great ped/bike plan for 2015. It showed absolutely zero thought for a future in that direction. I voted with 7 chips for more ped/bike plans, and the other 3 for mass transit/rail/streetcar. I wish I could contribute more constructive ideas other than just saying "more ped/bike/streetcar projects" Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 11:00:51 AM Quote from: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 09:56:10 AM And these have to be in by the end of Tomorrow?
Yes. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 11:01:11 AM Quote from: Bridges on June 02, 2014, 10:19:29 AM I went to the "meeting/presentation" in Springfield two weeks ago. There was absolutely no one from the community there for at least the 30 minutes I was there. Literally it was just me for most of the time (the input meeting had the unfortunate timing as being at the same time as a community meeting on Ability Housing). I don't know much about the projects, but NFTPO had a nice layout and voting system setup. I was absolutely shocked about the lack of pedestrian and bike transportation projects. These were lumped together with some streetcar level plans too. I had to ask for clarification that this was the plan for 2040. It didn't even look like a great ped/bike plan for 2015. It showed absolutely zero thought for a future in that direction. I voted with 7 chips for more ped/bike plans, and the other 3 for mass transit/rail/streetcar. I wish I could contribute more constructive ideas other than just saying "more ped/bike/streetcar projects"
the neighborhood went to a meeting to stop disabled vets instead of planning their own infrastructure for the next 20 years?
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Tacachale on June 02, 2014, 11:29:22 AM From their website it looks like there are extensive bike/ped projects, but it's hard to tell what they are since the maps are so hard to see. I don't know how they compare to the Mobility Plan. From what I can see and know a little bit about, here are my thoughts: *I'm with Mike (and presumably others) that a 5 Points Skyway stop is unfeasible. Streetcar, please *Especially given that, the Riverside streetcar format should be brought more in line with the Mobility Plan. *I support the Skyway extentions to Atlantic Boulevard and the Stadium District. Forest Street could probably be incorporated to the Streetcar plan. *Similarly, the Springfield Skyway extension would be great, but could probably be just as well as a cheaper streetcar project (which was, of course, in the Mobility Plan). *Are they really saying there will be streetcar in San Marco in addition to the Skyway extension? Why? *I would prefer to see the Sline rail project kept, given that it was created through community input, whereas the justification for the change is unclear. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 11:49:15 AM Justification for change is probably the anticipated cost of rebuilding track in the SLine, which includes going through the middle of JTA's bus operations yard. Instead of using the SLine, you could utilize an existing line that runs north of Gateway Mall to head north. The downfall is that you miss out on the urban core population centers and destinations such as UF Health. One option not shown could be something that Ock has mentioned quite a few times. Perhaps, the SLine should be a part of a LRT line and completely separate from commuter rail? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 11:50:04 AM How would you phrase those options for email or website commentary? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 11:53:30 AM I'd have to look at a specific idea or concept and then email that thought or suggestion. We should probably have Ock share his old ideas or look them up for further detail. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: jaxlore on June 02, 2014, 12:10:46 PM The lack of bicycle infrastructure is ridiculous. how can they talk about bike share on one hand yet we still have the third most dangerous streets in the country for bike and pedestrians? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 12:40:08 PM Where do you believe bike/ped is needed? How do you believe it should be addressed? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: IrvAdams on June 02, 2014, 01:09:29 PM
I read the article and sent a directed reply with my suggestions. I am no professional but, reading this feedback, it looks like I was pretty close. It's so hard to say what will be the best, but I suggested stuff I thought would be effective. Having read these responses, I think I'm going to add some more suggestions. It's one way to feel involved. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 01:39:26 PM Stephen, I don't know how I missed the "presentation" two weeks ago in Springfield. Either I didn't hear about it, or didn't know what it was. Since apparently no one else in Springfield was there either, I have to believe we didn't hear about it. How are these things communicated? Meanwhile, reading the article and preparing input. :) Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 01:40:49 PM Quote from: Tacachale on June 02, 2014, 09:49:04 AM Thanks. What is Metro Jacksonville's take on the changes?
At this point, there is no official Metro Jacksonville take. Nevertheless, I can share my opinion at this point. Personally, I'm highly concerned that several of the "replacement" transit ideas won't pass the technical sniff test and that they end up not making the Cost Feasible Plan. For example, how do you get the Skyway under I95 and to Five Points? If the streetcar already in the COJ Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP's Cost Feasible Plan is at least three times cheaper to implement and integrates into the context much better, why change to something riskier? Especially without public input? Same goes for extending the Skyway to UF Health. Great idea in 1975 when the original Skyway planning process was underway. Since BRT is a go down Jefferson/Broad with a stop at UF Health, extending the Skyway parallel a block or two away doesn't really achieve much. We'd just have too systems that will compete for limited ridership at the cost of millions more to the taxpayer. Such a path would also not deliver the needed economic benefits to Main and 8th Streets....the two Springfield streets where mixeduse infill is most desired and feasible. Nevertheless, I'm fine with what's shown being in the Needs Plan. However, I've requested that the Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP's Cost Feasible Plan transit, bike and ped projects be added to the 2040 Needs Plan as well. This way, they all have the opportunity to be studied in greater detail for inclusion into the official 2040 Cost Feasible Plan. IMO, the worst scenario would be taking out things that made the previous plan (and that the land use component of our comp plan was modified for to allow for TOD along those specific corridors), substituting them with risky expensive alternatives that end up being too unreasonable to make the final plan's list. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 01:43:41 PM Quote from: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 01:39:26 PM Stephen, I don't know how I missed the "presentation" two weeks ago in Springfield. Either I didn't hear about it, or didn't know what it was. Since apparently no one else in Springfield was there either, I have to believe we didn't hear about it. How are these things communicated? Meanwhile, reading the article and preparing input. :)
Well to be honest, I didn't know it was that night either. ;) It seems like there should be a neighborhood organization that paid attention to these things!
Thanks for filling out the responses. Regardless of any other issues or happenings, this is one of those things where people have to pay attention and get involved in the long term planning. Many many years from now, down the road when kids are making decisions where to live or to stay in Jville, and some of us are old enough to worry about how we are going to get from place to place, these decisions will have been made now, while no one is looking at them! Please let everyone you know how important this is to all of our futures.! Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 01:45:04 PM Quote . However, I've requested that the Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP's Cost Feasible Plan transit, bike and ped projects be added to the 2040 Needs Plan as well. This way, they all have the opportunity to be studied in greater detail for inclusion into the official 2040 Cost Feasible Plan.
Would this be one takeaway that everyone could help include in their comments and emails? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 01:47:05 PM Quote from: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 01:39:26 PM Stephen, I don't know how I missed the "presentation" two weeks ago in Springfield. Either I didn't hear about it, or didn't know what it was. Since apparently no one else in Springfield was there either, I have to believe we didn't hear about it. How are these things communicated? Meanwhile, reading the article and preparing input. :)
They've been advertised in various media outlets around town. In fact, we've run some banner ads and articles promoting the meetings and planning process. However, from the response at April's meeting, we may be better off with shock and awe headlines to encourage more participation. (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/assets/thumbs/image.3504.feature.jpg) Public Meetings on 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014aprpublicmeetingson2040longrange transportationplan#.U4y3Y_mwJkA http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=21289.0 Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=21520.0 Path Forward 2040: Investing In Our Future http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013octpathforward2040investinginour future#.U4y4DfmwJkA Choose Your Path: The Best Transportation Investments? http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013decchooseyourpaththebesttransportation investments#.U4y4PvmwJkA
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 01:51:04 PM Quote from: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 01:45:04 PM Quote . However, I've requested that the Mobility Plan and 2035 LRTP's Cost Feasible Plan transit, bike and ped projects be
added to the 2040 Needs Plan as well. This way, they all have the opportunity to be studied in greater detail for inclusion into the official 2040 Cost Feasible Plan. Would this be one takeaway that everyone could help include in their comments and emails?
That would be one takeaway. Yet, I prefer that people don't just take my word for it because I don't have all the answers. If there are ideas for improving transit in Jax out there, suggest them. If you like what you see in the 2035 Cost Feasible Plan or 2040 Needs Plan, tell the TPO so. If you think something worth considering has been left out, please point these things or ideas out because whatever doesn't end up in the Needs Plan by tomorrow will not be considered for inclusion into the official plan. If it's not in that official plan, you can forget about public dollars going to it anytime soon. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 01:56:02 PM We are so lucky to have you Lake. You have insight into these matters that is truly significant. You are the appointee to the Long Range Transportation Planning board after all. There are very few people in the state with your level of familiarity with the issues, and while I am certainly free to make up my own mind, in a pinch I certainly don't mind following your advice in this. :) Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 02, 2014, 01:56:55 PM STREETCAR IS NEEDED, heritage streetcar is cheaper and attracts visitors: FROM LAURA & INDEPENDENCE: To Newnan, to Beaver (run off the east end and through the woods over Hogans Creek) to Randolph, to Duval, to Lee, to Water, return to start. FROM BAY AND LEE, west on Bay to Myrtle (center lane is old streetcar subway) to Forrest, to Riverside, to Post, to Oak, to King, to FSCJ, to Roosevelt, to San Juan to Fairfax. FROM NEWNAN AND BEAVER: north on Newnan to Orange, to Main, to 8th, to Jefferson, north returning to Boulevard north to 'S LINE' FROM BEAVER STREET ALIGNMENT UNDER ARLINGTON EXPRESSWAY AT UNION ST WAREHOUSE, north on former F & J railroad r of w to 21st to Gateway Plaza. RAPID STREETCAR! Skyway to Forrest Skyway to Farmers Market (direct line)* Skyway to FSCJ to Health Dept to VA to UF Health* Skyway on Bay to Randolph Skyway south to Atlantic (west of railroad) in San Marco* *indicates a atgrade endpoint transfer terminal opportunity SKYBRIDGE a elevated pedestrian walk from current second deck of current San Marco station to Baptist and Aetna... 12,000 missed riders! CONDENSE JRTC INTO SINGLE HISTORIC BUILDING sell 8 blocks to TOD Developers. (Flagler? AAF? Etc) BRT (SILVER LEVEL) JRTC downtownArlington ExpresswayRegency (switch to bronze level Regency) hence via Atlantic to Beach. BRT (bronze level) Park St to King, to Post, to Cassat, to Blanding, to OP NORTHWEST BRT AS PLANNED USING PEARL AND REACHING JIA
EXPRESS MOTOR COACHES W/WIFI restrooms etc running Downtown Baymeadows (office parks) Town Center UNF BEACHES in lieu of BRT SOUTHEAST Similar service OP Baymeadows etc Commuter rail on A line to GREEN COVE using re manufactured RDC CARS for economy. Also to St Augustine South Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: jaxlore on June 02, 2014, 03:34:27 PM Lake There needs to be three distinct core bike paths or lanes that connect downtown with San Marco, Riverside and Springfield. I believe in this town these paths\lanes need physical separation to truly be of benefit or people wont use them. Sharrow's wont work. Drivers ignore them. Riverside Ave or really any street the runs the length up until Roosevelt, it could be College and cut through the park and/or through the underpass park. For San Marco San Jose to Hendrix is the easiest and most direct route Springfield not sure as I don't frequent as much but if you give people a safe These could be tied into the Trolly service route planning it could kill two birds maybe? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: tufsu1 on June 02, 2014, 03:51:37 PM ^ The TPO did a regional bicycle master plan update last year. This year, they are expected to start a more indepth look at needs in the urban core and beaches areas. I suspect that connectivity between the neighborhoods mentioned above will be a major focus of that effort. That said, there are plans moving forward for better bicycle connectivity between downtown and San Marco, Riverside, and Springfield. projects such as the reconstruction of Riverplace Blvd. or the idea of a cycle track on Liberty Street do just that. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: simms3 on June 02, 2014, 05:04:00 PM Quote from: jaxlore on June 02, 2014, 12:10:46 PM The lack of bicycle infrastructure is ridiculous. how can they talk about bike share on one hand yet we still have the third most dangerous streets in the country for bike and pedestrians?
Agreed. Also, usually when cities discuss putting in less optimal transit options, it's because the most optimal became infeasible, either financially or politically. Jax hasn't even attempted to put in something optimal, and yet is already "discussing" very lessthanoptimal options for transit. That's a little weird. A skyway to 5 Points? Honestly, what are these people smoking? I don't believe the SLine should be commuter rail. I get it, there are standard gauge tracks available to use via commuter rail trains/frequency, which in a way is what the area possibly can support, however, a curcvy short line through a neighborhood that is urban by relative standards and is adjacent to downtown, with stops every half mile to mile, is not really what commuter rail is. The city should grow some balls and put in LRT from downtown going north and create a master plan for growth/TOD, put together some financial option for developers to be incentivized, and let things run their course. Instead, what happens is a bunch of nontransit people are way overthinking all of these
"master plans", getting them way wrong, and not actually implementing them anyway. The city is not in emergency growth mode, and can actually curb emergency runaway growth by better land use plans in the suburbs (i.e. the Mobility Plan). That would afford them time to devote all resources to getting something practical up and running, and THEN working on master plans for citywide growth/transit once there is some sort of direction and a viable option up and running to paint how implementation might work in Jax and what it would result in. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 06:33:22 PM By the way, this isn't local bullshit, this is the actual federal pot of money and process, which means that it won't get put on the mayor's shelf somewhere. It gets put into the dna of the federal funding. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 08:06:21 PM Feeling redfaced, Lake. I used to be better about checking the "unread" posts, as well as the Springfield forum, but I've been super busy the last couple of months, and haven't kept up on the other MJ topics as much as I had been in the past. I totally missed all of these. MJ needs one of those redfaced embarrassed emoticons. Not that the JTA pays any attention whatsoever to what the public wants, anyway, but at least we can tell them. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Redbaron616 on June 02, 2014, 08:24:11 PM Ah, yes, more government spending please. Let the poor smuck taxpayer take it on the chin. All these wonderful mass transit dreams never, ever pay for themselves so taxpayers just have to keep subsidizing everyone riding it. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a good plan unless you are into the politics of envy, divide and conquer. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Jaxson on June 02, 2014, 08:41:40 PM I sent an email with my concerns and got a prompt response. I was a bit snarky in my email, though, as I have grown tired of our area's lack of vision with regard to transit issues. I was happy to get a quick reply but I am still not holding my breath anytime soon. My fear is that the vast majority of Jacksonville people are content to be doomed to endless traffic problems and no real solutions to our problems... Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 08:43:36 PM Apologize for being so late to the party, but have posted on FB and am attempting to drum up comments before the deadline. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 08:46:19 PM Quote from: Redbaron616 on June 02, 2014, 08:24:11 PM Ah, yes, more government spending please. Let the poor smuck taxpayer take it on the chin. All these wonderful mass transit dreams never, ever pay for themselves so taxpayers just have to keep subsidizing everyone riding it. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a good plan unless you are into the politics of envy, divide and conquer.
Hmmm......wonder who's paying for that new beltway to more urban sprawl? Oh, wait! That serves surburbanites in gasguzzling SUV's who don't want to live in the urban core. So we need that. We just don't need to subsidize or provide bus service, street cars and other mass transit those others in the urban core would ride. :) Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 08:48:36 PM Quote from: stephendare on June 02, 2014, 06:33:22 PM By the way, this isn't local bullshit, this is the actual federal pot of money and process, which means that it won't get put on the mayor's shelf somewhere. It gets put into the dna of the federal funding.
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 02, 2014, 08:49:03 PM Quote from: Redbaron616 on June 02, 2014, 08:24:11 PM Ah, yes, more government spending please. Let the poor smuck taxpayer take it on the chin. All these wonderful mass transit dreams never, ever pay for themselves so taxpayers just have to keep subsidizing everyone riding it. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a good plan unless you are into the politics of envy, divide and conquer.
Money earmarked for the 2040 Cost Feasible Plan will be split between a mix of transit, roads, bike, pedestrian, freight, safety, etc. projects. If you don't feel your money should be spent on transit and instead spent on something else, tell the TPO. If you think we should turn a blind eye on our entire infrastructure network and let it fall apart, you can tell them that too. Either way, engage the people who make these decisions instead of complaining about things that you can possibly shape by simply getting involved. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: IrvAdams on June 02, 2014, 09:27:54 PM ^^ +100% Well put, Lake. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: brainstormer on June 02, 2014, 10:13:32 PM I just took their online survey and emailed them my thoughts. It took all of 15 minutes. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 02, 2014, 10:57:29 PM Great! I can't find the survey, but I sent an email. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: brainstormer on June 03, 2014, 06:34:05 AM ^ See if this link to the survey will work. https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh (https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh) Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: JeffreyS on June 03, 2014, 08:40:42 AM In 2007 I was optimistic about streetcar, commuter rail and modest skyway expansion. That
has changed I do not believe we will see any of it. The politicians aren't interested and JTA has sold out to the fake BRT nonsense. For what it's worth I think Jax should put all it's transit efforts into streetcar spreading out from the skyway. After a couple of core area lines are built connect them by converting the skyway into a raised streetcar line. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: IrvAdams on June 03, 2014, 08:47:52 AM Quote from: brainstormer on June 03, 2014, 06:34:05 AM ^ See if this link to the survey will work. https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh (https://survey.co1.qualtrics.com/SE/? SID=SV_cvze9f9LWgdYfkh)
Thanks for the link, I missed it also on the feedback website. Great survey, doesn't take long. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 03, 2014, 09:14:35 AM Quote from: JeffreyS on June 03, 2014, 08:40:42 AM In 2007 I was optimistic about streetcar, commuter rail and modest skyway expansion. That has changed I do not believe we will see any of it. The politicians aren't interested and JTA has sold out to the fake BRT nonsense.
BRT never went away. However, we were successful in significantly modifying the crazy original billion dollar plan and getting the commuter rail/streetcar conversation going. To make them a reality, we'll have to continue to drive pressure to politicians to embrace them. If not, expect more roads in fringe areas and the exodus from the core and aging suburbs to continue. Quote For what it's worth I think Jax should put all it's transit efforts into streetcar spreading out from the skyway. After a couple of core area lines are built connect them by converting the skyway into a raised streetcar line.
This is something worth considering, IMO. Would be expensive upfront but makes sense on the surface. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: cline on June 03, 2014, 10:34:40 AM I just checked the TPO website and the agendas for both the TCC and CAC have an item requesting approval of the 2040 Needs Plan "that was presented for review at the May meeting". That's odd considering the comment period ends on the June 3 and the TCC meeting is on June 4. Are they going to incorporate public comments in one day before the Needs Plan is approved by those committees? Seems doubtful. Full TPO Board meeting is on June 12. Also, the Draft Cost Feasible Plan will be presented to the Board August 6th. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Debbie Thompson on June 03, 2014, 12:29:58 PM The website said the comment period for the Needs Plan was extended to June 3rd. I guess they wanted to allow the most time for public comment. So....everyone please send your input. Thanks for the survey link. Found it and took it. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax?
Post by: Tacachale on June 03, 2014, 04:21:24 PM I sent my thoughts over. Probably similar to what a lot of people around here would like to see. Hopefully it makes an impact. Title: THE OFFICIAL OCKLAWAHA 2040 TRANSIT PLAN Post by: Ocklawaha on June 03, 2014, 06:59:47 PM THE OFFICIAL OCKLAWAHA 2040 TRANSIT PLAN TPO Steering Committee Member, Robert W. Mann, ideas for 2040 MASS TRANSIT CONCEPT MAP KEY: key: Yellow Streetcar (including GatewayAP Randolph RapidStreetcar) Red BRT (International Basic BRT except SILVER or GOLD as noted by color) Teal Commuter Rail Purple Skyway Green Skywalk (http://www.scribblemaps.com/api/maps/images/450/450/1XJhSBhiyq.png) http://www.scribblemaps.com/maps/view/1XJhSBhiyq/ "TOLD YA I'D DO MORE BRT THEN JTA! hee hee hee! I do believe this map is achievable by 2040, but not with the current crop of driftwood guiding this place. A trend setting mass transit overhaul using two great innovations by two great world powers is sorely needed! Paved Highways = Via Appia = Roman Empire, circa 312 BC, The Appian Way (Latin and Italian: Via Appia) was one of the earliest and strategically most important Roman roads of the ancient republic. It connected Rome to Brindisi, Apulia, in southeast Italy. Railroads = The Diolkos = Greek Empire, 600 BC (Δίολκος, from the Greek διά, dia "across" and ὁλκός, holkos "portage machine") was a paved trackway near Corinth in Ancient Greece which enabled boats to be moved overland across the Isthmus of Corinth. Archaic Greece. Okay, so I'm a full service 'smart ass.' Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 03, 2014, 08:22:22 PM Will you be there tomorrow? Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 03, 2014, 11:25:06 PM Somehow fell off the list, but I've got a email in to Ginny, if I get a high green, I'll be there! (FYI before somebody jumps off sides, 'HIGH GREEN' is a railroad term for 'go at track speed.')
Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2014, 05:18:34 AM You have a high green. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 04, 2014, 11:18:42 AM I'll come hobbling in tonight! See you there. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: cline on June 17, 2014, 01:11:05 PM FYI...the Adopted Needs Plan has been posted on the TPO's website. There were changes made. The Skyway extension project that was proposed to go to Five Points has been changed to Streetcar (like in the 2035 Plan). It also looks like the proposed skyway project that was from FSCJ to Shands has also been changed to Streetcar. There is also asterisks on all the streetcar projects that state that "Mode to be determined by feasibility study". This is kind of dumb disclaimer since they are listed as "Streetcar" projects. If the mode is unknown why call it out specifically as a streetcar project. There may have been other changes made but I only looked at transit projects within the Downtown Riverside/Avondale area. http://pathforward2040.com/images/uploads/resources/201406 12_Table_Needs_Plan_Projects_.pdf Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 17, 2014, 01:48:48 PM I've been chasing this along for 34 years now, and those ** have come to have a totally different meaning. I now translate this as: ** Some kind of transit improvement, were writing the word 'streetcar' in the blank to call off the dogs, but we happen to know a PCT is just as cute, and OMG, Skyway is how the cow eats the cabbage in Jacksonville. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 17, 2014, 01:50:08 PM That's what JTA wanted because they really want to do Skyway. I haven't had a chance to see the revised maps. Are the transit routes from the 2035 LRTP or the substituted stuff that was initially added in the Needs Plan. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: cline on June 17, 2014, 01:55:35 PM Quote from: thelakelander on June 17, 2014, 01:50:08 PM That's what JTA wanted because they really want to do Skyway. I haven't had a chance to see the revised maps. Are the transit routes from the 2035 LRTP or the substituted stuff that was initially added in the Needs Plan.
It looks like it is the routes from the 2035 Plan but I haven't really taken the time to study it yet. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: cline on June 17, 2014, 02:09:41 PM
If you scroll to the end of this document you can see a project list that appears to show all the changes made to the Draft Need Plan. In the meeting notes there is also discussion about future transit projects. Specifically it says that all the descriptions will include skyway/streetcar for the future expansion of fixed guide way transit in downtown. http://pathforward2040.com/images/uploads/resources/Steering_Committee_Meeting_June_4_ _Agenda_Package_and_Meeting_Notes.pdf Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Ocklawaha on June 17, 2014, 02:26:11 PM Frankly IMO, the revised route along the south and west edge of the Springfield Parks works better as a streetcar route as it could be sodded and landscaped, you don't interfere with the new 'Main Street' upgrade, and you could easily serve Bethel, FSCJ, Health Department, a couple of dense apartment complexes, the new VA clinic and end in the UF center on a loop. Little to no street running involved which takes typical streetcar up to the next levelmore like rapid transit. I also MUCH prefer Water/Independence to Bay Street, less traffic, more pedestrian friendly, close to Riverwalk, Landing, Hyatt, and it avoids duplication of the Skyway should it ever move east of Central Station. I also like it better as it moves the streetcar one block further down from any future crosstown run on Duval. Failure to include direct access to the old F&J rail line behind and running north from Maxwell House to Gateway would be something short of criminal. Skyway wise, seamless connections could be made with streetcar at Bay and Newnan Hogan and First Riverside and Forrest (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20Heritage%20Trolleys/ScreenShot2014 0617at22339PM_zpsf6b2fa16.png) THINK OFF STREET! Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Tacachale on June 17, 2014, 03:39:34 PM Sounds good that they listened on these fronts. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: thelakelander on June 17, 2014, 04:46:20 PM Yes. After the article went up that was posted here, they received 80 comments (over a day period) before the deadline, resulting in a change to what was originally being considered. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: Tacachale on June 17, 2014, 07:46:31 PM That's terrific news, and testament to the power of the forum and the people who make it up. Title: Re: Do You Care About The Future Of Transit In Jax? Post by: tufsu1 on June 17, 2014, 08:47:12 PM ^ agreed...but the sad part is there should have been no need for the outcry....its kind of perplexing that the project team started on a different path.
Metro Jacksonville Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: mvp on May 12, 2014, 05:13:17 PM
Title: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday Post by: mvp on May 12, 2014, 05:13:17 PM The North Florida TPO is holding another public meeting for the Path Forward 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan: Thursday May 15, 2014 5 7 p.m. Historic Springfield Community Learning Center 1601 N Main St., 2nd Floor Jacksonville, FL 32206 Special Guest: The Honorable Corrine Brown Senior Member of the House Committee on Transportation & Infrastructure Title: Re: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday Post by: mvp on May 15, 2014, 02:34:46 PM Rain's tapering off, so if you're in the neighborhood please stop by and let transportation planners know your thoughts! The project list and maps are at http://pathforward2040.com/whatispathforward/resources/ (http://pathforward2040.com/whatispathforward/resources/). Title: Re: Long Range Transportation Plan Meeting in Springfield this Thursday Post by: Ocklawaha on May 15, 2014, 02:50:05 PM Amazing, 4 of the 5 original Skyway terminals are back on the 'needs list.' As usual though, streetcar, skyway, bus, BRT and commuter rail all side by side along the south side and somewhat on the south west corridors. SMF 2.0 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
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Key Correspondence
January 26, 2015
Email Correspondence From Jeanette Berk Robert Mann Robert Mann River Region Meeting Jeanette Berk Doris Davis Charles Meyers Judith and Hunt Grinn Ken Rowles Eric Ziecheck Maureen Welch Sarah Owen Gledhill Neil Armingeon Penny McCormick
To Mr. Pwell Enis Davis Alvin Brown, Mayor Mr. Pwell Denise Bunnewith Jim Green Denise Bunnewith Denise Bunnewith Denise Bunnewith Denise Bunnewith Denise Bunnewith Denise Bunnewith Denise Bunnewith
Date May 16, 2014 June 4, 2014 October 12, 2014 June 19, 2014 May 16, 2014 June 4, 2014 July 6, 2014 June 4, 2014 June 4, 2014 June 4, 2014 June 4, 2014 May 23, 2014 May 23, 2014 May 22, 2014
Subject Bicycle and Pedestrians Transit Transit Community Meeting Bicycle and Pedestrians SR 313 12‐mile swamp SR 313 12‐mile swamp SR 313 12‐mile swamp SR 313 12‐mile swamp SR 313 12‐mile swamp SR 313 12‐mile swamp SR 313 12‐mile swamp SR 313 12‐mile swamp SR 313 12‐mile swamp
From: To: Cc: Subject: Date: Attachments:
Jeanette Berk mvpennington@comcast.net Irene Soria; Terrel Shaw; Denise Bunnewith; Marcie Henderson Public Meeting in St. Augustine and in Jacksonville (River Region) Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:52:48 AM IMG_3697.JPG IMG_3699.JPG IMG_3700.JPG image001.png Public Workshop-Jacksonville_River_Region_06_18_2014.pdf Public Workshop-St. Augustine_06_12_2014.pdf
Dear Victoria, We had 18 people participate in St. Augustine on June 12, 2014 and 22 people participate in Jacksonville at the River Region meeting on June 18, 2014. Attached please find the sign in sheet, summary report and comment sheets for both meetings. The attached pictures are from the River Region meeting. We told the participants that they will be added to your and/or the north Florida TPO’s email list so that they will be informed of future meetings. Please let me know if you have any questions or need additional information. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Jeanette Jeanette F. Hoekstra-Berk Chief Transportation Planner jberk@hntb.com Tel (904) 596-7981 Cell (904) 755-1858 HNTB CORPORATION 7077 Bonneval Road St 600, Jacksonville, Florida 32216 | www.hntb.com
100 YEARS OF INFRASTRUCTURE SOLUTIONS
From: To: Cc:
Subject: Date: Attachments:
Robert W. Mann Ennis Davis Terrel Shaw; To: dale.allen@jaxsheriff.org; Jeffrey.beck@claycountygov.com; ball@coj.net; dbuckman@nassau.k12.fl.us; calvinb@coj.net; rcarper@coab.us; vincent.clark@dep.state.fl.us; bgthoburn@jtafla.com; jfleet@greencovesprings.com; barbara_goodman@nps.gov; james.green@dot.state.fl.us; Kimberly.hair@flyjacksonville.com; kch@sgj-airport.com; sherring@nassaucountyfl.com; don.jacobovitz@putnam-fl.com; doreen.joynerhoward@dot.state.fl.us; david.kaufman@jaxport.com; pking@nassaucountyfl.com; lisaking@langtonconsulting.com; mknight@citystaug.com; starling.kramer@claycountygov.com; glarson@cityofsab.org; WGLee@jtafla.com; elehman@nefrc.org; todd.lindner@flyjacksonville.com; slindorff@jaxbchfl.net; dlocklear@co.st-john.fl.us; Carolyn.morgan@claycountygov.com; napoli@coj.net; pnguyen@sjcfl.us; mnull@greencovesprings.com; lparlapiano@worksourcefl.com; ed.preston@bakercountyfl.org; aray@townop.com; jrobinson@coj.net; ameera.sayeed@dot.state.fl.us; tohclerk@windstream.net; matthew.schellhorn@navy.mil; Soliman@coj.net; citymanager@keystoneheights.us; karen.taulbee@dot.state.fl.us; talbpa@jea.com; steeple@jtafla.com; stevetock@clearwire.net; baldwinmayor@comcast.net; Denise Bunnewith (dbunnewith@northfloridatpo.com); mlarson@northfloridatpo.com; Victoria Pennington ("mvpennington@comcast.net"); Jeff Sheffield (jsheffield@northfloridatpo.com); Jeanette Berk; Irene Soria; Milton Locklear (mlocklear@northfloridatpo.com); Ginny Montgomery (gkmontgomery@northfloridatpo.com); bccd5@sjcfl.us; wbishop@coj.net; mayorbrown@coj.net; rbrown@coj.net; doylec@coj.net; doug.conkey@co.clay.fl.us; james.croft@bakercountyfl.org; tdavlantes@gmail.com; Greg.Evans@dot.state.fl.us; donnaharper@bellsouth.net; diane.hutchings@co.clay.fl.us; chip.laibl@putnam-fl.com; clatham@jaxbchfl.net; dleeper@nassaucountyfl.com; brianareaves@gmail.com; nancysikeskline@aol.com; rspohrer@sdlitigation.com; cyouman@staugustineairport.com; david.bauerlein@jacksonville.com; james.bennett@dot.state.fl.us; shundreka.givan@dot.gov; adele_griffin@rubio.senate.gov; chawkins@bizjournals.com; dlocklear@co.stjohns.fl.us; boconnor@prosserhallock.com; nmatthew.schellhorn@navy.mil; nshinkre@sjcfl.us; erw@sgjairport.com; patmikeborno@att.net; dawn_emerick@hpcnef.org; cweckenmann@jtafla.com; Leak.michelle@mayo.edu; john.wilkinson@fr-aleman.com; Joe.stephenson.jps@gmail.com; Edavis@metrojacksonville.com; Mosley, Alan (Alan.Mosley@myjaxchamber.com); gsample@sjrwmd.com; Cc: Victoria Pennington; Spell, Bryan C., Manager Joint Agency Projects; Doug Conkey; Bernie OConnor; Warren, Suzanne Re: North Florida TPO Wednesday, June 04, 2014 4:40:03 PM Free buses vs. expensive rail.docx BRT_Standard_2014.pdf Screen Shot 2014-06-04 at 4.31.02 PM.png Screen Shot 2014-06-04 at 4.31.21 PM.png Screen Shot 2014-03-20 at 1.33.40 PM.png PastedGraphic-1.tiff
TPO COMMITTEE, My two cents worth, please go to the link for a map of my own 'vision' for MASS TRANSIT in 2040. I like the Skyway expansion, but deleting the streetcar links north, using Bay Street (note the line north to Gateway and the possible easy access to the same) for streetcars or placing a streetcar on the Southbank are all non-starters from a old railroad planner point of view. Two streetcar systems as well as at-grade crossings simply will not work. Streetcar crossing the FEC or CSX at grade article: http://tbo.com/news/business/streetcar-board-looks-to-state-to-pay-insurance20140120/ Also note that the Skyway can come down to street level at the terminal points in San Marco or the Stadium area. This is easily done and I have photos of such installations in the Far-East. The benefit being 'across-the-platform' transfers without the use of stairs etc. Imagine a Commuter train pulls in from St. Augustine at the Atlantic Avenue Skyway station. On each side of a single monorail beam or Skyway car is a 20 foot platform, exit on one side, walk 20 feet and board a bus at curbside, go 20 feet to the other side and board the train. Skyway Concepts Article: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-oct-re-evaluating-the-skyway#.U4Aql6y8dI Also the Skyway opens an opportunity to recycle the old Fire Station 5 by simply
moving it across the street and turning it around. This could be a historic TOD project per my article: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jul-skyway-brooklyn-fire-station-5urban-dynamo#.U4-ALl6y8dI The exclusion of the 'S' line from Jacksonville Union Terminal to Gateway is a bad idea. Currently the Florida East Coast no longer has direct access to our port terminals. Cars can take 2 days to cross Jacksonville from one railroad to the other, which hurts out port. Rebuild the 'S' and use it for 'rapid streetcar' (a sort of economy light-rail) by day, and in the wee hours of the morning, the FEC RY can pull freight to and from the Springfield interchange with the Talleyrand Terminal Railroad. The income from this freight use can be applied to help support the streetcar by day. Finally the so-called JRTC is an absolute albatross as designed and completely dysfunctional. See this article on a much more economical solution to the longstalled project: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-may-rethinking-the-jacksonvilletransportation-center/page/1#.U4-Ca16y8dI BRT can be Silver or Gold Level per the international score sheet for BRT by using JTB, and the Arlington Expressway. What JTA currently is calling BRT does not even merit a 'BASIC BRT' score on the accepted standard without a bit of fudging. Reports prove that BRT is not the dynamic TOD builder that we are being told it is, fact is the highly successful 'Orange Line' in LA, is where BRT was picked over rail because the local community did not want a development engine. Thank you.
Cut and past to your browser: http://www.scribblemaps.com/create/#id=JACKSONVILLE&lat=30.324833920696943 &lng=-81.6623430835723&z=14&t=hybrid
Robert W. Mann
Terrel Shaw From: Sent: To: Cc:
Subject: Attachments:
Robert W. Mann <bob@metrojacksonville.com> Sunday, October 12, 2014 4:13 PM mayorbrown@coj.net RLumb@coj.net; GAnderson@coj.net; Joost@coj.net; JRC@coj.net; KimDaniels@coj.net; JimLove@coj.net; Gulliford@coj.net; doylec@coj.net; Holt@coj.net; RBrown@coj.net; WAJones@coj.net; EDLee@coj.net; Gaffney@coj.net; MattS@coj.net; Boyer, Lori; Redman@coj.net; RClark@coj.net; WBishop@coj.net; Clay@coj.net; Terrel Shaw; ball@coj.net; calvinb@coj.net; rcarper@coab.us; pgovreau@visitjacksonville.com; kmitura@visitjacksonville.com; sgibson@visitjacksonville.com; lkopstad@visitjacksonville.com; ntorres@visitjacksonville.com; visitorinfo@visitjacksonville.com; pjimenez@visitjacksonville.com; cmauney@visitjacksonville.com; bmeyer@visitjacksonville.com; amichaels@visitjacksonville.com; amcauliffe@visitjacksonville.com; ncrawford@visitjacksonville.com; mnoon@visitjacksonville.com; jhoce@visitjacksonville.com; ktownsend@visitjacksonville.com; nchapman@visitjacksonville.com; tterry@visitjacksonville.com; kmorgan@visitjacksonville.com; KEVANS@VISITJACKSONVILLE.COM; pclark@visitjacksonville.com; pastleford@visitjacksonville.com; vincent.clark@dep.state.fl.us; barbara_goodman@nps.gov; james.green@dot.state.fl.us; Kimberly.hair@flyjacksonville.com; doreen.joynerhoward@dot.state.fl.us; david.kaufman@jaxport.com Streetcar Comparable Cost Study + Free Offer PastedGraphic-1.tiff
Dear Mayor Brown; We now have the opportunity to move forward for a heritage streetcar (modern cars could operate over the same line at some future date) in Jacksonville. The cost is minimal and the resulting economic development ROI if it follows national trends would be from 4 to 1 to as high as 14 to 1. Such a line from 5-Points to Water Street to the stadium could even be in reach of a private/public partnership. I wanted to share the following two developments which could greatly enhance the possibility of making this happen. You may recall in our previous correspondence how a 1980 study by a local marketing firm estimated as many as 500,000 visitors to such a hybrid transit/living museum operation. We need endorsements from various agencies and corporations to push this forward in addition to our support from the Jacksonville Jaguars. COMPARABLE: I just located an excellent comparable which breaks down the cost to the penny of a much grander plan then what I have in mind. Basically, our building would be much smaller and less ambitious, but could still be nice, attractive and have a museum/gift shop element. It could even be a part of The Landing or Shipyards proposals. Also, the track work in this project is far more ambitious then a Jacksonville project, railroad yards for 70 cars are astronomically more expensive then the simple arrangement we would required. I estimate it would take few track switches and a largely straight and simple line. Anyway I invite you to give this a look over and write or call me. 1
I'd also like to meet with any of you and show you the amazing fund raiser that we could place in a conspicuous spot with a strongbox where people could literally drop in their donation. We should have no problem raising money this way for a grants match. The display is a substantial piece of an open type 1901 streetcar, and we can have it FREE to display for a year or two, even shipped free. All we need to do is provide a small roofed enclosure or indoor location for it and put it on the cities insurance during its stay. There are some real, vintage 1920 cars for sale at this moment for less then the cost of a new city bus. COMPARABLE: http://www.ct-trolley.org/documents/Presentation-SB-230-CTM.pdf Please give this some consideration as I think it not only shows this is doable, it's far less money then I believe anyone thought it would be. Sincerely Robert,
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From: To: Cc: Subject: Date: Attachments:
Jeanette Berk "fmpowell3@aol.com" Denise Bunnewith; Terrel Shaw Vulnerable Crashes and Safety Projects Friday, May 16, 2014 7:37:41 AM 03_21_2014_Duval_Cnty_Landscape_Bike_Ped.jpg 2_04.23.14_Duval_Landscape_TSMO_Projects.pdf
Dear Mr. Powell, As a follow up on our conversation last night at the public meeting, attached please find two maps. The bicycle and pedestrian map shows the accidents that have occurred involving bicyclist and pedestrians. Lem Turner Road shows accidents all along the corridor starting at Dunn Ave and ending at I-95. The vulnerable accidents rate on a corridor will be used in the prioritization process of the different bicyclist and pedestrian projects. Also attached is a map showing where roadway safety projects are currently planned. There are none currently planned at the interchange of I-95 and Golfair Blvd. As requested by you last night, we will add the need for safety improvements at this interchange and as we enter the next phase of the Long Range Transportation Study, we will gather the accident data involving cars on all corridors and look at all the crash data and other performance measures to prioritize the projects that have been identified in the Needs Plan. Based on this prioritization process, input from the public and the elected officials, projects can move into the Cost Feasible phase. Should you have any questions or need additional information, please do not hesitate to contact us. Thank you very much for your input. Sincerely, Jeanette F. Berk Chief Transportation Planner HNTB Corporation 7077 Bonneval Road, Suite 600 Jacksonville, FL 32216 Tel (904) 596-7981 Cell (904) 755 1858 www.hntb.com
From: To: Subject: Date:
Denise Bunnewith Terrel Shaw; Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) FW: new raod proposed through the 12 mile swamp conservation area. Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:58:18 PM
From: Denise Bunnewith Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 8:37 AM To: 'davis2505@bellsouth.net' Subject: RE: new raod proposed through the 12 mile swamp conservation area.
Dear Ms. Davis, Thank you for sharing your concerns. I just want to let you know that this project will not be in the recommended Needs Plan presented to the TPO Board for approval at the June 12 meeting. Denise Bunnewith From: davis2505@bellsouth.net [mailto:davis2505@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:00 AM To: Denise Bunnewith Subject: new raod proposed through the 12 mile swamp conservation area.
Please remove the new road proposed through the 12 Mile Swamp Conservation Area(12MSCA). Thank you for taking care of our natural environment. Doris Davis 31 Orange Avenue St Augustine, F; 32080
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Denise Bunnewith Terrel Shaw; Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) FW: FW: Questions about SR 313 Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:58:04 PM
From: Charles S. Meyers [mailto:charlessmeyers@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 9:31 PM To: Green, James Cc: Bennett, Leigh; Taulbee, Karen; Denise Bunnewith; Phong Nguyen Subject: Re: FW: Questions about SR 313
Mr. Green, et. al; I want to thank you for taking the time to do this research to answer my questions and clarify the information. As you are aware there are people who support SR313 and those that oppose it. On an emotional level, I oppose it myself, but on an intellectual level I am mature enough to recognize that my opposition may be biased since I live in an affected community. Therefore, I am trying to educate myself on the project as a whole, absent all of the rhetoric for and against this project, so that I can make a fact based informed decision to either join the active opposition - or to accept its necessity for the good of the overall community beyond my neighborhood. To that end, I am appreciative of the information you have provided. Chuck Meyers Sincerely, Sheriff (ret) Charles S. Meyers, MPA, CPM, CJM 904-201-3031
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Green, James <James.Green@dot.state.fl.us> wrote: Mr. Myers Ms. Bennett discussed your inquiry with me, and asked me to respond to your questions about projects related to SR 313 in St. Johns County. The project numbers – 837, 838, and 840 – refer to project identification numbers from the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization’s (North Florida TPO) development of their 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan (2040 LRTP). Specifically, they identified three projects in the May 7 version of the Draft Needs Plan, one of the several steps leading to adoption of the 2040 LRTP. The North Florida TPO has a website that explains the LRTP process in much greater detail than I will cover here: http://pathforward2040.com/ Briefly, the Needs Plan includes a very long list of projects that could potentially be included in the 2040 LRTP. Since, by federal regulation, the 2040 LRTP can only include those projects that are “cost affordable,” that is, match revenues projected through 2040, the “Needs” list includes many
more projects than will be in the Adopted 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan. During evaluation of the Draft Needs Plan, several projects were removed, and some were added, as a result of the North Florida TPO’s public involvement process. The projects removed from the Draft Needs Plan will not be considered further during development of the 2040 LRTP. Now, to the specifics of the projects in your inquiry: 838 SR 313 Extension FROM [proposed] SR 313 between SR 16 and US 1 TO International Golf Parkway New 4 Lane Road 837 SR 313 Extension FROM International Golf Parkway TO I-95 @ First Coast Expressway interchange These two projects were deleted from the Draft Needs Plan, prior to consideration by the North Florida TPO Board, at their June meeting. 840 First Coast Expressway @ I-95 New Interchange This project is part of the Florida Department of Transportation’s long-standing project to construct the First Coast Expressway (previously known at the First Coast Outer Beltway), from I-10 in western Duval County, through Clay County, crossing the St. Johns River near Green Cove Springs, and ending at I-95 between International Golf Parkway and SR 210. This project remains in the Needs Plan, and will be considered for the final 2040 LRTP. If you have any questions about the development of the SR 313 Extension projects, I suggest talking with the St. Johns County staff, as they may have more insight as to their inception. James Green Gainesville MTPO / Alachua County Liaison Florida Department of Transportation - District 2 Planning, Jacksonville Urban Office - MS 2806 2198 Edison Avenue Jacksonville, FL 32204-2730 904-360-5684 E-mail: james.green@dot.state.fl.us PLEASE NOTE: Florida has very broad public records laws. Most written communications to or from state officials regarding state business are public records available to the public and media upon request. Your e-mail communications may therefore be subject to disclosure.
From: Bennett, Leigh Sent: Thursday, 03 July, 2014 1:11 PM To: Green, James Subject: FW: Questions about SR 313 Jim, See emails below for inquiry pertaining to St. Johns County’s SR 313 project that was discussed at the Commission Meeting on May 20, 2014. Please respond to Mr. Meyers request for information.
I greatly appreciate it. Thanks & Have a Great 4th of July weekend! Leigh Ann Bennett Project Manager, Consultant Project Management 386-961-7451
From: Bennett, Leigh Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 5:47 PM To: 'Charles S. Meyers' Subject: RE: Questions about SR 313 Mr. Meyers, I am currently looking into your inquiry about the SR 313 route that was discussed at the St. Johns County Commission Meeting on May 20, 2014. The numbers you mentioned in your email below do not pertain to the FDOT SR 313 project 210230-2. I will get back with you later this week with some information. If you have any questions please call or email me. Thanks, Leigh Ann Bennett Project Manager FDOT D-2 Consultant Project Management, MS 2002 1109 South Marion Ave. Lake City, FLÂ 32025 (386) 961-7451Â Fax # (386) 758-3706 leigh.bennett@dot.state.fl.us
From: Charles S. Meyers [mailto:charlessmeyers@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 7:49 PM To: Bennett, Leigh Subject: Questions about SR 313
Ms. Bennett, At a May 20, 2014, St John's County Commission meeting there was a lengthy discussion involving the proposed route of SR313 north of RT16. Specifically mentioned were segments 837, 838, and 840. Can you provide me with information, maps, documents, or anything else that would allow me to get an idea of what they were talking about? Thank you, Sheriff (ret) Charles S. Meyers, MPA,CPM,CJM 904-201-3031
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Denise Bunnewith Terrel Shaw; Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) FW: 12MSCA Road Through 12 Mile Swamp Conservation area Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:57:36 PM
From: Denise Bunnewith Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 8:32 AM To: 'Judith Ginn' Cc: Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) Subject: RE: 12MSCA Road Through 12 Mile Swamp Conservation area
Dear Judith and Hunt, Thank you for sharing your concern. I just wanted to let you know that this project will not be in the recommended Needs Plan presented to the TPO Board for approval at the June 12 TPO meeting. Denise Bunnewith From: Judith Ginn [mailto:ginnsinn@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:03 AM To: Denise Bunnewith Subject: 12MSCA Road Through 12 Mile Swamp Conservation area
We are opposed to the new road proposed through 12 Mile Swamp Conservation Area (12MSCA). Judith Ginn & Hunt Bowman
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Denise Bunnewith Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net); Terrel Shaw FW: Don"t cut through the swamp Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:57:20 PM
-----Original Message----From: Denise Bunnewith Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 8:35 AM To: 'Ken Rowles' Subject: RE: Don't cut through the swamp Dear Mr. Rowles, Thank you for sharing your concerns. I just want to let you know that this project will not be in the recommended Needs Plan presented to the TPO Board for approval at the June 12 Meeting. Denise Bunnewith -----Original Message----From: Ken Rowles [mailto:kenrowles@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 9:17 AM To: Denise Bunnewith Subject: Don't cut through the swamp How would you like it if someone cut a highway through your yard. Animals and plants live there. There are enough roads. GN Rowles
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Denise Bunnewith Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net); Terrel Shaw FW: 12 mile Swamp road opposed Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:56:47 PM
From: Denise Bunnewith Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 8:28 AM To: 'emzrip' Subject: RE: 12 mile Swamp road opposed
Thanks you for taking the time to comment on the project. I just wanted to let you know that this project will not be in the recommend Needs Plan presented to the TPO Board for approval at the June 12 Meeting. Denise Bunnewith From: emzrip [mailto:emzrip@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 4:54 PM To: Denise Bunnewith Subject: 12 mile Swamp road opposed
I appreciate your service and understand the challenges of future planning. Please take careful look at 12 mile swamp and the watershed. Does a road benefit eveyone including the wildlife and habitats?
We know infrastructure is important and St.Johns County has natural resources that are extremely important.
A 4 lane road will have an impact, can it be minimized?
If the road is not a good plan in the vote of commissioners, then we need to support their leadership.
Regardless a road through and fragile ecosystems is not an idea that I support.
Thank you for your time and have nice weekend,
Eric Ziecheck 747 Needle Grass Dr. St. Augustine, Fl. 32086
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone.
From: To: Subject: Date:
Denise Bunnewith Terrel Shaw; Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) FW: 12 mile swamp Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:56:29 PM
From: Denise Bunnewith Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 8:30 AM To: 'SACA message' Cc: Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) Subject: RE: 12 mile swamp
Dear Maureen, Thank you for taking the time to share your concern. I just wanted to let you know that the projects through 12 Mile Swamp will not be in the recommended Needs Plan presented to the TPO Board for approval at the June 12 Board Meeting. Denise Bunnewith From: SACA message [mailto:sacamessage@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:35 AM To: Denise Bunnewith Subject: 12 mile swamp
Dear Ms. Bunnewith: I am opposed to any four-lane, or other, road to cut through the conservation land of 12 Mile Swamp. Maureen Welch 107 A Rio del Mar St. Augustine, FL 32080 904.471.0753
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Denise Bunnewith Terrel Shaw; Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) FW: Florida Wildlife Federation Comments on TPO 2040 Draft Needs Map Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:55:23 PM TPO Comment Letter Re 12 Mile Swamp.docx
From: Sarah Owen Gledhill [mailto:northeastfwf@fwfonline.org] Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 8:09 AM To: Denise Bunnewith Cc: Manley Fuller; RChristianson@sjrwmd.com; Marianne.Gengenbach@dep.state.fl.us Subject: Florida Wildlife Federation Comments on TPO 2040 Draft Needs Map
Ms. Bunnewith, Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us to explain the process of the 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan. We still have concerns over the proposed alignment through 12 Mile Swamp Conservation Area. Please find our comments attached to be entered into the record. We respectfully ask the North Florida TPO to remove the new alignments from the map prior to adoption at the June board meeting. Sincerely, Sarah Owen Gledhill, AICP Planning Advocate Florida Wildlife Federation Northeast Office 201 Owens Ave St Augustine Florida 32080 (904)461-1160
Keeping the Wild in Florida since 1936
From: To: Subject: Date: Attachments:
Denise Bunnewith Terrel Shaw; Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) FW: Comments on the 12 Mile Swamp Proposal Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:21:37 PM 12mileTPOltr.docx
From: Matanzas Riverkeeper [mailto:Neil@MatanzasRiverkeeper.org] Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:09 PM To: Denise Bunnewith Cc: mjgberg@gmail.com; 'Sarah Owen Gledhill'; 'Linda Bremer' Subject: Comments on the 12 Mile Swamp Proposal
Dear Denise, Please add these comments to the administrative record of the 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan’s Draft Needs Plan. We trust the TPO will honor St. Johns County’s wishes and remove this project from the draft needs plan. I ask to be kept abreast of the status of this proposal. For the Matanzas, Neil A. Armingeon Matanzas Riverkeeper
North Florida TPO Denise Bunnewith, Planning Director 1022 Prudential Drive Jacksonville, FL 32207 We look forward to working with the TPO and appreciate the opportunity to comment on the 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. For the River! Lisa Rinaman St. Johns Riverkeeper 904-509-3260 lisa@stjohnsriverkeeper.org
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Denise Bunnewith Terrel Shaw; Victoria Pennington (mvpennington@comcast.net) FW: 12MSCA Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:21:09 PM
  From: Penelope McCormick [mailto:mccormick.penny@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:05 PM To: Denise Bunnewith Subject: 12MSCA
To Denise Bunnewith:
This message concerns a proposed road through the 12 Mile Swamp Conservation Area. It is my understanding that this land is owned by St Johns River Management District and a trust fund for the state of Florida. This area is the headwater for 6 creeks and is crucial for maintaining the water quality and quantity of these creeks. It benefits the groundwater and water supply for this area. Thank you for your attention. Penny McCormick Secretary for South Anastacia Communities Association Penelope McCormick 9224 July Lane St. Augustine, Florida 32080 904 461-0261
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Letters
January 26, 2015
Letters From Jeff Sheffield
To Captain Tom Allen
Date September 3, 2013
Jeff Sheffield
Major General Titshaw
September 3, 2013
Jeff Sheffield
U.S. Marine Corps
September 3, 2013
Jeff Sheffield
Brigadier General Richard Gallum
August 14, 2014
Jeff Sheffield
Commander Lodann Allen
August 14, 2014
John Morris Jeff Sheffield Neil Armingeon (anonymous)
Jeff Sheffield John Morris Denise Bunnewith Denise Bunnewith
May 21, 2014 May 27, 2014 May 23, 2014
Subject U.S. Coast Guard Participation Adjutant General, U.S. Army Participation U.S. Marine Corps Participation National Guard Participation U.S. Coast Guard Participation SR 313 Extension SR 313 Extension SR 313 Extension transit
August 14, 2014 Brigadier General Richard Gallum St. Francis Barracks 82 Marine Street St. Augustine, Florida 32084 Dear Brigadier General Richard Gallum: The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization, the metropolitan planning organization for our region, is updating the long transportation plan to 2040 establishing priorities to program federal highway and transit funds for the next 20 years. The Federal rules which govern the planning process require us to engage agencies involved in protecting the safety and security of our region. The Florida National Guard plays a vital role in protecting the people of Northeast Florida, helping to ensure that people and goods can move across our state during times of crisis. I would like to invite you or your designee to attend the August 27 meeting of the Long Range Transportation Plan Steering Committee. The meeting will be held in our offices at 1022 Prudential Drive at 9 AM. The meeting should last no more than two hours. We will review the recommended Cost Feasible Plan that will be presented to the public in public workshops in September in Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns Counties. The adopted plan is referred to as the Cost Feasible Plan because it is fiscally constrained. It includes projects using local state and federal dollars. In developing this plan we identified $27 billion (present day dollars) in needed road, transit, freight, operational, bicycle and pedestrian improvements. We estimate that approximately $8.8 billion in revenue (in present day dollars) will be available over the life of the plan to fund the highest priority projects. I hope you will make time in your busy schedule to review and provide comments on this plan. The plan will be presented in November to the TPO Board for approval. Sincerely,
Jeff Sheffield Executive Director
August 14, 2014 Commander Ladonn Allen U.S. Coast Guard Station Mayport 4200 Ocean Street Atlantic Beach, Florida 32232 Dear Commander Allen: The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization, the metropolitan planning organization for our region, is updating the long range transportation plan to 2040 establishing priorities to program federal highway and transit funds for the next 20 years. The Federal rules which govern the planning process require us to engage agencies involved in protecting the safety and security of our region. The U. S. Coast Guard plays a vital role in protecting the waterways of Northeast Florida. I would like to invite you to attend the August 27 meeting of the Long Range Transportation Plan Steering Committee. The meeting will be held in our offices at 1022 Prudential Drive at 9 AM. The meeting should last no more than two hours. We will review the recommended Cost Feasible Plan that will be presented to the public in public workshops in September in Clay, Duval, Nassau and St. Johns Counties. The adopted plan is referred to as the Cost Feasible Plan because it is fiscally constrained. It includes projects using local state and federal dollars. In developing this plan we identified $27 billion (present day dollars) in needed road, transit, freight, operational, bicycle and pedestrian improvements. We estimate that approximately $8.8 billion in revenue (in present day dollars) will be available over the life of the plan to fund the highest priority projects. I hope you will make time in your busy schedule to review and provide comments on this plan. The plan will be presented in November to the TPO Board for approval. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to call me at 904-306-7512. Sincerely,
Jeff Sheffield Executive Director
May 27, 2014
The Honorable John H. Morris, Chair St. Johns County Commission 500 San Sebastian View St. Augustine, Florida 32084 Dear Chairman Morris: Thank you for your letter of May 21, 2014 and to the St. Johns County Board of County Commissioners for their review of the North Florida TPOâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s 2040 Draft Needs Plan (Plan). Per your request to remove the proposed road segments (Map ID #837 and #838) associated with the SR 313 Extension and to extend the public comment period beyond the May 23, 2014 deadline, I offer the following confirmations. First, all references to project #837â&#x201D;&#x20AC;SR 313 Extension from International Golf Parkway to First Coast Expressway/I-95 (new 4-lane road) and project #838-SR 313 Extension from SR 13 (portion connecting SR 16 with US 1) to International Golf Parkway have been deleted from the Plan that will go to the TPO Board for approval at their June 12 meeting. Second, the public comment period has been extended an additional 11 days to June 3, 2014 and is reflected on the project website at www.pathforward2040.com. This extension can be accommodated without jeopardizing our federally mandated schedule for completion of the 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan (LRTP). In addition to your letter, we have received numerous comments from the public expressing similar concerns related to the impact of the proposed project on the 12 Mile Swamp Conservation Area. All comments received by the June 3rd deadline will be included in the public involvement documentation for the Long Range Transportation Plan. Thank you again for your letter and we look forward to your continued participation in the Long Range Transportation Plan Process as we work toward a November, 2014 adoption. Sincerely,
Jeff Sheffield Executive Director
May 23, 2014 ELECTRONICALLY DELIVERED North Florida TPO Denise Bunnewith, Planning Director 1022 Prudential Drive Jacksonville, FL 32207 dbunnewith@northfloridatpo.com Re: Road Proposed through 12 Mile Swamp Conservation Area Ms Bunnewith, On behalf of the members of the St. Johns Riverkeeper, we submit our opposition to the proposed road corridor (segments 838, 837 and 840) that threatens valuable public land in the 12 Mile Swamp Conservation Area (12MSCA). 12MSCA is an integral tract of publicly owned lands to the Northeast Florida region. It is the headwaters to four creeks that drain into the St Johns River and two creeks that drain into the Matanzas River helping us prevent further water quality degradation. 12MSCA also provides valuable flood protection for those living in the area and downstream. Unfortunately, the St. Johns and her tributaries are plagued with pollution and ongoing outbreaks of toxic green slime. Northeast Florida must focus more on water quality protection, not less. â&#x20AC;&#x153;Preservation of this site (12MSCA) serves to protect the water quality and quantity of these creek systems and benefits the groundwater and water supply for this area of St. Johns County.â&#x20AC;? St. Johns River Water Management District Website, www.floridaswater.com The proposed devastation to 12MSCA will undermine water quality and water quantity protections that are one of the stated public goals of the 12 MSCA. St. Johns Riverkeeper respectfully requests the North Florida TPO remove the proposed new road alignments (segments 838, 837 and 840) cutting through the 12 Mile Swamp Conservation Area from the 2040 Long Range Transportation Plan Draft Needs Plan.
31 May 2007: "Free" buses vs. "expensive" rail? Myth: There seems to be a widely held notion among the public – including many politicians, journalists, etc. – that rail transit systems, such as light rail transit (LRT), are weighted down with substantial heavy capital expense, while buses are more or less "free". Rail transit critics exploit this misconception by emphasizing the relatively high installation costs of new rail systems ("BILLION$$$ for rail") vs. the relatively lower costs of simply operating buses on city streets and freeways. "Why build expensive rail? Buses can do the same thing cheaper" is a familiar refrain in local debates over proposed new rail transit starts. Reality: Bus systems incur sizable capital expenses, too, as well as rail, with typically much higher operating and maintenance (O&M) costs; often, when you add up all these costs and account for the relative life of all the infrastructure and rolling stock, plus the work performed (measured in passenger-mileage or passenger-km), you may find that rail actually gives amazing "bang for the buck". To demonstrate this, the Light Rail Now Project team carried out an analysis of transit performance data from St. Louis Metro, comparing the total operating and maintenance (O&M) plus capital costs of both Metro's bus transit and MetroLink light rail transit (LRT) systems for the period 1996-2005, using National Transit Database Agency Profile data gathered by the Federal Transit Administration. The table below presents total costs (capital fixed facilities and rolling stock, and O&M) for each mode over the ten-year period (millions of US dollars), and the total passenger-mileage (millions) carried by each mode over that period: St. Louis Metro – Total Costs & Passenger Mileage, 1996-2005
Capital Capital O&M Cost Total Cost PassengerCosts: Costs: Mileage Fixed Rolling Stock Facilities $64.0 $131.3 $1,045.5 $1,240.8 1,389.5 Bus $844.4 $124.2 $262.2 $1,231.2 1,047.7 LRT [Source: Federal Transit Administration, National Transit Database, 1996-2005] It is particularly interesting to note that, even with its heavy capital costs, when operational costs are considered, St. Louis Metro's LRT in this period exhibits total costs slightly less than the agency's bus operations. However, higher total passenger-mileage was carried on the bus system, so a more complete analysis would require taking into consideration the differing lifecycle costs for each mode (e.g., railcars last considerably longer than motor buses) by annualizing capital costs. To obtain a total annualized cost figure for each mode, capital costs were annualized using common economic analysis (see discussion below). Annual operating costs were averaged for the 10-year period, as was annual passenger-mileage for each mode – reflecting the advantages
of the longer lives of both LRT infrastructure and rolling stock. For bus, average annual O&M costs were $104.6 million, and average passenger-mileage was 139.0 million. For LRT, average annual O&M costs were $26.2 million, and average passengermileage was 104.8 million. Via this "averaging" method, with annualized capita costs, the total cost per passenger-mile for each mode was calculated as follows: · Bus – $0.88
·$0.74 – LR T
This suggests that, with total capital and operational costs considered, St. Louis's "capitalintensive" LRT ends up costing approximately 16% less per passenger mile than the agency's supposedly "cheap" bus system. This analysis was corroborated by a slightly different methodology – calculating the cost per passenger-mile for the final year, 2005, only. In this case, the annualized capital costs for each mode were added to the O&M cost for 2005, and then divided by the passenger-mileage for each mode in 2005 to obtain a total cost per passenger-mile figure for that year: · Bus – $0.97
·$0.82 – LR T
Through this method (which adjusts somewhat for more recent inflationary increases), LRT still comes out about 15% less than bus service In terms of work performed (i.e., passenger-miles carried). The assumptions used for annualizing capital costs depart significantly from those required by FTA (after all, this is a form of benefit-cost analysis, not an exercise in meeting FTA's New Start project qualification benchmarks). Thus, an annualization (discount) factor of 5% was used, rather than the 7% mandated by FTA – given today's interest and inflation rates, it is difficult to justify anything above about 5% for a public works investment. In this assessment, a 50-year life is assumed to be reasonable for LRT infrastructure because this includes right-of-way (ROW), to which even FTA assigns a 100-year life. FTA's mandatory life expectancy for railcars is 25 years, which seems unreasonably low compared with industry experience. Various sources report a 30 to 35-year economic life for rail rolling stock; this analysis has used 30 years. The FTA's average life for a bus of 12 years, on the other hand, does seem reasonable in light of widespread industry experience, and this is corroborated by reliable documentary evidence. For the economic life of bus fixed facilities, 45 years has been used for several reasons: (1) Buses run mainly on public streets, so there's very little need for ROW acquisition and cost. (2) Many bus facilities, such as sidewalk signage, benches, etc., are much less durable than comparable items on rail stop or station platforms. (3) Bus pavement has a shorter life than rail track infrastructure, and their salvage value is basically nil. Bottom Line of this analysis: At least in the case of St. Louis Metro's bus and rail operations, examination of actual total capital and O&M costs over a ten-year period suggest that investment in LRT has lowered the total unit cost of providing public transport mobility. And this simply accounts for direct agency costs, without consideration of the array of significant additional benefits of rail service for passengers and the community.