Comic Book Creator #34 Preview

A TwoMorrows Publication

No. 34, Spring 2024

Cover art by Dan Jurgens and Brett Breeding

Spring 2024 • The Dan Jurgens Issue • Number 34

T A DAN JURGENS Portrait by KEN MEYER, JR. ©2024 Ken Meyer, Jr.

About Our Cover Cover art by DAN JURGENS, Pencils BRETT BREEDING, Inks Cover colors by GLEN WHITMORE

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Ye Ed’s Rant: Talking about a magazine’s philosophy and yammering about other stuff... 2 COMICS CHATTER Welcome to the Glutverse: Roberto Lionel Barreiro talks about the cross-company universe writer Don Glut created populating his comics, books, and films — with an illuminating schematic courtesy of fellow Glutologist Charles Rutledge ....................... 3 An Age of Altergott: Talking with the cartoonist about his graphic novel, Blessed Be..... 12 Once Upon Long Ago: Steve Thompson on his introduction to comics fandom.............. 15 Sunshine’s Superman: Publishing hardback collections of comics back in the ’70s...... 18 The Borth Files: The final part of our profile of the greatest artist you don’t know........... 20

Superman, associated characters TM & © DC Comics.

Incoming: Roy Thomas comments on the Stan Lee at Carnegie Hall article in CBC #31.... 28 Cooke’s Column: Y.E. discovers humorist Sean Kelly comments about Byron Preiss....... 29 Ten Questions: Darrick Patrick basks in the glow of bright and sunny June Brigham...... 30 Son of the Flame: The last portion of Greg Biga’s career-spanning interview with Mike Deodato, Jr., covering the artist’s years of reinvention, struggle, and triumph.... 32 Comics in the Library: Richard Arndt on The Lonely War of Capt. Willy Schultz............... 40 Hembeck’s Dateline: Fred compares the Action Heroes and Watchmen counterparts ... 41 Above: This image was originally intended as a double-page spread featured in Superman #82 [Oct. 1993], but, Dan Jurgens told us, it was rejected by DC editorial as submitted

by Dan, because it forced the reader to turn the book sideways. They later released it as a folded poster to be included in a plastic-bagged book sold at a big box store.

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Dan Jurgens: Love, Death, and Superman Greg Biga questions the artist/writer about his “Smallville”-like Minnesota upbringing, early entry into DC Comics, and his creation of Booster Gold, as well as thoughts on the awesome responsibility of being a caretaker for an American icon, and the group dynamics behind the “Death of Superman,” and his subsequent jumping between the “Big Two,” as Dan became one of mainstream comics most important pros .......... 42 BACK MATTER Creators at the Con: Kendall Whitehouse covers the 2023 Baltimore Comic-Con........... 78 Coming Attractions: Bob Brodsky’s comprehensive look at writer Denny O’Neil............ 79 A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: Tom Z. shows off some of his Big Foot work.... 80 EDITOR’S NOTE: Note that some images in this issue have been enhanced with software.

Right: Slightly altered detail of Booster Gold #18 [May 2009] cover by Dan Jurgens and Norm Rapmund..

Comic Book Artist Vol. 1 & 2 are available as digital downloads from twomorrows.com Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Dr., Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344.

Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. Box 601, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: jonbcooke@aol.com.

Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $53 US, $78 International, $19 Digital.

All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2024 Jon B. Cooke/ TwoMorrows. Comic Book Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. ISSN 2330-2437. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

TM & ©DC Comics.

COMIC BOOK CREATOR is a proud joint production of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows

THE MAIN EVENT

up front

Journey into the Glutverse!

An examination of the most fascinating shared comic book universe you didn’t know about

by ROBERTO BARREIRO

Gold Key TM Gold Key Entertainment, LLC. Dr. Spektor TM & ©Penguin Random House, LLC.

[Editor’s intro: By the early 1970s, the idea of a continuum between comic book titles had been long established since Marvel made it a central element of the charm of its super-hero line in the ’60s, a cool notion of a shared universe with characters interacting within one another’s books. Taking that cue, Charlton had its “Action Heroes”; Tower, its T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents; and The Mighty Crusaders had their realm over at Archie Comics. They weren’t alone. Certainly, ever since Superman initially cavorted with Batman in World’s Finest and the Justice Society first convened their All Star Comics’ meetings back in the ’40s, DC predated all of that ’60s stuff with its characters crossing paths, but rarely was there the conviction and frequency as was happening at the House of Ideas.

But cross-company continuity? This was simply unheard of, at least in any overt fashion until DC’s Man of Steel bumped into Marvel’s amazing Wall-Crawler for their 1976 “Treasury Edition” slugfest, starting an extended period of detente that lasted between the Big Two into the ’90s. Sure, writers like Steve Skeates subversively tied up loose plotlines from his abruptly cancelled Aquaman [1972] in an issue of Sub-Mariner [1974], but any ongoing co-mingling from one publisher to another…? Nobody would dare suggest a shared universe starring characters from separate companies, right?

Enter Donald Frank Glut and his vast and glorious Glutverse!

The following (in somewhat different form) was submitted by Roberto Lionel Barreiro Figueroa, a fellow comics scholar from Chile, who helped tremendously with my Charlton Companion regarding Argentine artists. He suggested I make use of an English translation of a piece he wrote in Spanish on the “Glutverse,” and I was instantly captivated as both a fan of Don’s work and tickled by the very phrase! I’ve shamelessly edited the essay and beg his forgiveness, but here’s hoping Roberto’s exuberance shines through! — Y.E.] The origin of perhaps the best-developed experiment in continuity during the 1970s occurred in the comic books of a publisher that didn’t promote it, with characters far removed from superheroes and, in fact, established almost entirely in secret, developed behind the backs of the editors themselves. This was all due to the work and imagination of a young comics writer who wanted to give a common thread to all his stories about detectives of the supernatural, barbarians among swords and sorcerers, prehistoric warriors who encounter aliens, and horror stories. From that unlikely mix of genres, Donald Glut would generate a group of series within the Gold Key publishing house that functioned as his own created universe. This is the story of his Glutverse, as its become known by the few fans who recognized what he was doing, a saga of this hidden comics realm, its genesis, development, and apparent (but, in reality, not final) end.

A FAN’S SECRET JOKE By 1972, Don Glut already had a certain fame within the (albeit small) fandom of North America, and could boast of a promising professional career as scripter. Born in Texas, in 1944, Glut was just one more “war baby,” who spent his childhood reading pre-Code comics, listening to rock ’n’ roll, watching old black-&-white horror movies on TV, going to cheap SF double and sometimes triple bills at local theaters, and religiously reading Famous Monsters of Filmland magazine (about said movies). Two very specific subjects would attract his attention and become obsessions that remained COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2024 • #34

throughout his career: dinosaurs and the monstrous creation of Dr. Frankenstein. Both manias will result in books (and much more), both fiction and nonfiction.

But what set Glut apart from other war babies and boomers was that, as a teenager, he wanted to do things with his favorite characters. So, while coming of age in Chicago and later moving to California in his college days, young Glut would film his own “fan” efforts. With a 16mm camera, Glut was determined to tell stories about super-heroes, monsters, and movie serial villains.

Between 1953–69, Glut lensed a whopping 41 short films, using characters like Superman, Spider-Man, the Spirit, Frankenstein’s creation, werewolves, dinosaurs, etc. Early on, his production efforts were catching the attention not only of other fans, but also Famous Monsters editor Forrest J Ackerman and his writer, rock singer Ron Haydock, who frequently promoted Glut’s work, giving the young man recognition in fandom of the day. The nascent director would thus get to know others from that world, including a fellow from Missouri named Roy Thomas.

This page: At top is the logo for Gold Key Comics, which was an imprint of Western Publishing, alongside Jesse Santos’s painting for the cover of The Occult Files of Dr. Spektor #19 [Apr. 1976].

Above is an enhanced portrait of the creator of the Glutverse himself, Donald Frank Glut, the remarkable pop culture polymath, who has made significant impacts in comics, B-movies, the study of dinosaurs, novels, and more!

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This spread: Mystery Comics Digest items by writer Don Glut and artist Jesse Santo, who (above) drew a caricature of the collaborators, plus Spektor pin-up and splash page detail from Dagar #1.

All items TM & © Penguin Random House, LLC.

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The Ackerman connection allowed Glut to enter a professional career as a comics writer. Advised by Forry, who also served as his cheerleader, young Glut began selling short-story comic scripts in 1969 to Ackerman’s publisher, Jim Warren, for the Warren horror comic magazines. In Creepy, Eerie, and Vampirella, his scripts started to appear. A few years later, a job for Ackerman led him to the West Coast-based comics editor, Chase Craig, at Western Publishing and, in a few months, that meeting resulted in Glut writing text pages for their Gold Key comics line.

By the time of Glut’s arrival, Gold Key had seen better days.

Their golden age of Russ Manning’s Magnus, Robot Fighter and Carl Barks writing and drawing the Disney ducks had passed, and the titles, mostly comics starring licensed properties, were selling less across the board. Besides the cartoon show comics, they focused on tepid horror stories that were a specialty — Gold Key never bet on super-heroes to any extent — and Glut soon received a call to write scripts for their brand new anthology, Mystery Comics Digest, and, from his very first comics story, “Mask of the Mummy,” the Glutverse started to take shape. And not only was the writer’s new realm being introduced in that debut tale, but it was also exquisitely drawn by his most important Gold Key

collaborator, newly hired Filipino artist Jesse Santos. Though, from time to time, veteran artist Dan Spiegle and others would render Glut scripts, the vast majority were illustrated by Santos.

This would be a universe different from the others. Superheroes will rarely appear, and its central protagonists will come from the genres of heroic fantasy and horror. Glut wisely used forms of construction of the shared reality that Stan Lee had outlined at Marvel to apply it to his different characters, giving them a certain novelty in their respective genres. Now, mind you, Glut was doing the universe-building without attracting editorial attention, respecting the idea that each story needed to stand on its own, without one having to have read the previous issue to understand what happens. Pardon our enthusiasm as we parse this expanding universe in excruciating (but hopefully entertaining) detail!

That first Glut/Santos job in Mystery Comics Digest #1 [Mar. 1972] starts almost casually, with mummy Ra-Ka-Tep, formerly an ancient Egyptian sorcerer, who is brought back to life and swaps his body with that of the greedy tomb defiler. The character will be resurrected in an issue of The Occult Files of Doctor Spektor. In #2 [Apr. ’72], werewolf Count Wulfstein appears, who ends up dying when entering a silver mine — only to return five years later in The Twilight Zone! The next issue [May ’72] has two new characters appear: Simbar, a Tarzan wannabe who would repeatedly visit Dr. Spektor, transforms into a lion-man — and who, in this story, gets his lioness-woman, Joan! In the other, prehistoric cave people Tragg and Lorn, cave people who live in prehistory with anachronistic dinosaurs, in this story, face the world’s very first werewolf, the result of an extraterrestrial infection in lake water. Tragg eventually got his own title [nine issues, ’75–77], as would a certain fellow introduced in MCD #5 [July ’72].

#34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

age of altergott

Building a Flowertown World

Rick Altergott on expanding the Doofus universe in his first graphic novel, Blessed Be

by JON B. COOKE

Above: Veteran cartoonist Rick Altergott’s first graphic novel, Blessed Be, is now available from Fantagraphics Books. Inset right: Painted self-portrait of the artist, who got a jump on his career at Cracked magazine, alongside best chum Daniel Clowes, when fellow former art school pal Mort Todd was editor. Rick went on to live in Seattle with wife Ariel Bordeaux, during a time he called, “The closest thing to a gilded age I can imagine, ripe with promise and vitality…” Below: Rick said that the name of fictional Flowertown is a goofy derivative of Flourtown, a suburb of Philadelphia. A map of his graphic novel’s setting is used as endpapers of his new book.

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Last year, on the day before autumn officially began, I went to hang out with Rick Altergott on his porch, something I’ve done on the occasional Friday evening, to talk about comic-book stuff with my buddy, who conveniently lives just up the street from my preferred comic shop, The Time Capsule, in Cranston, Rhode Island.

Since the ’90s, Rick has been a favorite cartoonist upon my first encountering his work in Hate, so when Rick moved to the Ocean State with cartoonist wife Ariel Bordeaux over 15 years ago, I made sure to welcome the couple and I always put in an effort to involve Rick in whatever projects I was working on where his considerable artistic talents could best be put to use — and paid for with real money!

So I’ve been quite aware Rick has been toiling over his first graphic novel for longer than I’ve known him and, while I do plan to feature my career-spanning interview with him in CBC someday soon, I was eager to first talk about that Fantagraphics book, which was published in February (months after this ish is sent to press). Natch, I’m biased then regarding Blessed Be: A Flowertown U.S.A. Adventure. So, I insist: go buy it, enjoy it, and now, direct from his portico, let’s hear about it from the author!

“It’s a long-form story,” Rick said, “featuring my characters that I’ve been working on for so long, Doofus, Henry Hotchkiss, and the regular cast of characters, set in Flowertown, U.S.A., which kind of has become a character of its own, especially in this book. It’s got a similar sort of vibe to Sherwood Anderson’s fiction town of Winesburg, Ohio. I’d always been doing just gag strips with Doofus, a couple pages here and there, and I wanted to do a long-form graphic novel.”

About the story’s genesis, Rick explained, “Whether Ariel and I initiated Raisin Pie or were approached by Fantagraphics to do a series together — split a regular, 32-page comic in half and each of us would fill half the pages, I can’t recall. And I kinda foolishly thought I’d do a serial with a cliffhanger ending in every episode and continue it in the next issue, but the reality was that was well beyond what I was able to do. Plus the issues were not coming out as quickly as they should and, if you say they came out annually, that’s being charitable. I was hoping to finish my ‘Blessed Be’ comic series in six issues. (‘Blessed Be’ wasn’t necessarily what I named it; that was just the default title.) But that just became an impossibility.

“I was going to do the whole sixth issue of Raisin Pie. We completed five issues and the first issue had extra pages, so I got a good chunk of storytelling done. But, as you do a series like that, you realize the audience likes a one-page story here or something else, so I couldn’t just say I’m going to devote everything to this… [but] the reality was that it wasn’t going to be done in that many issues. Then I expanded the story and discarded the idea of a culmination of a story that had to have these cliffhanging chapter endings, which just didn’t work out.

So, when I finally was able to do a longer story, I was able to blow it out into a better story. And that’s what you’ve got now.”

Yes, Rick integrated a number of aspects of his Raisin Pie chapters into Blessed Be, “but it’s not a repeat of the serial itself.”

All told, it was a book 20 years in the making. “I’ve worked on it for so long that I developed stuff and wrote it on the fly and, in that regard, I’m very happy how it turned out. The other way to do it was your publisher says, ‘Here you are, you’ve got this book and need to fill this many pages, you have a script, then you do the breakdowns, then you do the drawing… there’s no room for adding stuff. But this way (which is probably a worse way to do a book) you have the freedom to add stuff and, over time, I added a lot of good stuff. The normal way of doing a comic book is you have to do it in a more regimented way, because you have somebody saying, ‘I have to have the breakdowns by this date.’ Since I just completely fell off any kind of schedule… there were periods of time when I couldn’t work on it… We had a child, we moved about five times, bought two houses, and all that time, this has been in the background of my life and I’ve been working on it.

“But no one has ever said, ‘You’d better get this together!’

Except me! I said, ‘I have to finish this book,’ and I’ve wanted to do it my way, so I was really lucky that Fantagraphics still wanted it. I guess I didn’t have to worry, because they were much more interested than I thought. Eric and Gary have been great.”

Did the end result match his intention? “It’s pretty much what I hoped always it would be, but the timing… the story #34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

adventures in the book trade

Sunshine’s Superman!

Editor/author/humorist Linda Sunshine remembers jump-starting hardbound comics

by JON B. COOKE

Above: Linda Sunshine’s big success was a parody of Jane Fonda’s Workout Book. “That was a real big turning point in my life,” she said.

It made her enough money to buy two co-ops in New York, and sent her on a three-week, 30-city book tour (which led to a thankfully brief career as stand-up comic, “but I was really bad at it!”). “I did some books for Turner Publishing when Jane was married to Ted Turner… and I was introduced to her and, when I told her I was the author of Plain Jane Works Out, she said, ‘Well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery,’ and that’s all she said to me. And that was that!”

Linda Sunshine had a lot of fun. A native of New Jersey and graduate of Ithaca College, she’s written nearly 70 books thus far, many of them funny — a parody of Jane Fonda’s exercise bestseller and other books poking fun at young urban professional (often Jewish) females — Women Who Date Too Much, A Passion for Shoes, How Not to Turn into Your Mother, etc. — and when the “real New-York New Yorker” moved to L.A., Linda scribed a bunch of books on Hollywood movies. Plus, at the very start of her career in publishing, when hardly in her 20s, she was a part of the “trade paperback” revolution that changed the entire book industry during the early 1970s. But why is this woman, who authored dozens of books and edited hundreds more, usually getting interview requests?

“It so funny for me to be remembered for those books,” she said with a laugh. “I must have edited 1,200 books in my life!”

For comic book fans of a certain age, “those books” are massively important ones Linda helmed for Crown Books, the first American hardback comic book collections able to be placed on the shelf alongside Jules Feiffer’s The Great Comic Book Heroes, helping to give the art form a semblance of respectability. And all it took for the 1971 publication of Superman: From the ’30s to the ’70s and Batman: From the ’30s to the ’70s to see the light of day was a simple phone call to Carmine Infantino.

“At the time,” Linda explained, “I was just looking at all the stuff I loved as a kid and think about doing them as books.”

When it came to comics, as a youngster she read mostly girl-oriented titles, especially one owned by Archie Publications. “I wanted to do a book on Katy Keene, because that was one of my favorite comic books. I was way more into romance comics and Katy Keene than I was into super-heroes. But I could never get Katy Keene off the ground. For some reason, I could never get the rights.”

The nascent editor then figured, “It just seemed to me that you couldn’t go wrong with Superman.” So, she got the green light from her boss at Crown to pursue a hardbound collection of Man of Steel stories, though only in black-&white. “I remember being sorry at the time because we couldn’t do it all in color because it was too expensive. I didn’t know if people would have been interested in seeing them in black-&-white because they had always been in color, but that was all we could afford. We didn’t want to do a $50 book at the time. I don’t know if being b-&-w hurt it or helped it.”

Linda summoned the courage and cold-called the publisher of DC Comics. “I had called Carmine about doing this book,” she said, “and he said, ‘Well, take me out to dinner and we’ll talk about it.’ It was crazy. My boss gave me $30 to take him out to dinner. I didn’t have a credit card at the time and we sit down to dinner, and he orders a drink and a steak, and I was thinking, ‘Oh, my God! Now I can’t eat!’ So I didn’t order anything and I said, ‘I’m not really hungry.’ He said, ‘What’s the matter?’ I said, ‘I only have $30,’ and he laughed so hard! He thought that was the funniest thing ever. He said, ‘Order whatever you want!

All characters TM & © DC Comics.

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#34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

the borth files

The Artist’s Autumn Years

The final portion of our three-part look into the fascinating life and great art of Frank Borth

by JON B. COOKE [In our previous segments, we learned of Ohio-born artist Frank Mellors Borth’s entry into comics’ Golden Age at Quality Comics, his WWII experience, and making it through the industry’s dark times by thriving with assignments from the Geo. A. Pflaum publishing outfit of Dayton, Ohio. It was in the pages of Pflaum’s comic book line where Borth [1918–2009] developed into an exceptional cartoonist and stellar storyteller, especially adept at humor-laced adventure tales, often starring kids and animals. At the beginning of the 1960s, married to school teacher wife Bobbie and father of Steven and Kathy, the Montauk, N.Y.-based family man, increasingly dedicated to civic life in his idyllic town, received a request from an old friend, who just so happened to be among comics’ greatest illustrators.— Ye Ed.] Above: Testament to his talent and standing at the George A. Pflaum Company, a collection of Frank Borth’s “Draw-Along” art lessons was published in 1965.

Inset right: At top is a Borth self-portrait included in a profile featured in Isaac Asimov’s Science Fiction Magazine, Vol. 5, #6 [June 1981]; center and bottom are Reed Crandall’s caricatures of himself and best friend Frank from their art school days, respectively, detailed from the wraparound cover of Treasure Chest Vol. 18, #11 [Jan. 31, 1963], featuring the entire TC crew. (Check out CBC #22 [Winter 2020] for a peek at the entire piece.) Below: Courtesy of Roger Hill, whose Reed Crandall: Illustrator of the Comics discusses Frank, a pic of the man fishing from June 1960.

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Treasure Chest of Fun & Fact, for much of its quarter-century existence between 1946–72, was safe harbor for any number of comic book professionals, even while navigating the industry’s most turbulent waters. In all but summer months, its Ohiobased publisher steadily produced that wholesome bi-weekly anthology comics title for Catholic schools during the academic year, financed not by fluctuating newsstand sales but with student subscription payments collected by teachers.

George A. Pflaum, Co., was an outfit priding itself with the quality of its freelance contributors, prominent among them, the superb artist/writer Frank Borth, by 1960, a trusted TC veteran. “Joe Sinnott and other people who had worked previously for comic books migrated to Treasure Chest,” Borth told me during my Summer 2003 visit to his Montauk, N.Y., home.

“Treasure Chest did not pay as much… But I think a lot of the good artists, like Sinnott and so forth, really recognized that this was not just a comic book. They could be illustrators.”

So it’s small wonder then that joining the TC team would be none other than the quintessential comics illustrator, Reed Leonard Crandall. Late of Quality Comics, EC Comics, and soon to add Classics Illustrated to his roster of clients, the artist also happened to be, of course, Frank’s best buddy.

And, as he had in a previous summer or two, divorcee Reed came to spend the season, sleeping on a cot in Frank’s studio, taking evening strolls on the beach alone, and, as the need arose, being of great assist to his host.

“During the visit,” Roger Hill wrote in his biography, Reed Crandall: Illustrator of the Comics [2016, TwoMorrows], “Borth’s wife, Bobbie, came down with a lung illness and wound up in a New York hospital for a few

weeks. Attending to his wife’s needs, Borth got behind on his Treasure Chest work and Reed decided to pitch in and help out. He penciled a four-page story… Borth inked the tale and sent it in…

Around the same period, Borth wrote a letter to the publisher expounding on the talents of Reed Crandall and convinced the publisher to start giving Reed some work.

James Langdon, Treasure Chest editor, was receptive and, while Reed was still in Montauk, he sent the artist both a cover and story assignment to complete on his own.”

Since their time in art school together, Frank Borth was in absolute awe of his best pal. “His whole forte actually was that he had a photographic memory.

He used to drive me nuts in art school. He could draw anything without going and doing the research. Airplanes… war planes, and so forth… he would do these drawings of the Civil War and show them in the uniforms… How did he know? He must have remembered from seeing motion pictures of the thing, y’know?

He was just wonderful. And, as far as drawing horses, he liked drawing horses more than he did people.”

As Bobbie recovered, that Summer of 1960 was a pleasant time for the two old chums, who each had their own space to draw in the studio. “After I got him an assignment from Treasure Chest,” Frank told me, “while he was busy working on it, I had a squirrel monkey at that time, in a six-foot cage… And I used to let him out in the studio. I’ll never forget the day that squirrel monkey got up on the drawing board that Reed was working on and was sitting there watching him and peed on his painting.” Amid our laughter, Frank added, quoting Reed, “‘Hey! Your monkey just pissed on this…!’”

While Frank suspected Reed suffered a drinking problem, evidence of an affliction became apparent only after his friend returned to his native Kansas. “I didn’t find that out #34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Borth art on spread © the estate of Frank Borth. Photo on opposite page courtesy of Roger Hill.

until he went home,” Frank revealed. “I found empties down in the basement hidden at the end of my canoe. He didn’t want to throw them in the rubbish so that I would see them. And it was small bottles; he didn’t drink the quarts, he’d pick up a pint.

He’d say he was going to walk down on a beach… and, while at the beach, he then walked on to the village… Most times, I didn’t know when he came in…”

FLIVVERS IN FLIGHT AND ELEPHANT-RIDING ELLIE As can be expected, Reed Crandall’s abilities deteriorated over time, but despite his condition, the artist could still produce magnificent work through much of the 1960s, most prevalently for the Warren horror magazines.

Treasure Chest remained a steady client until 1967, around the time Al Williamson tempted him to come draw Flash Gordon at King Comics. Frank would remain a faithful friend until Reed passed away, in September 1982.

Frank stayed quite busy with Pflaum through the ’60s, producing 19 multi-chapter serials, amounting to many pages and multiple covers, plus a number of shorter features, as well as writer and artist for a serial in a six-issue 1966 summer edition. Up until mid-decade, Frank Moss, the Montauk charter boat captain and close family friend* he recruited to become one of Treasure Chest’s busiest writers, had written the majority of Frank’s assignments but, in ’65, Moss found himself a new career in midtown Manhattan, where he would offer Borth illustration assignments. The artist told Catholic University researchers, “[It] got to the point where he was starting to write up articles and things for yachting magazines in New York.

He was offered to be the editor of Sport Fishing [magazine]… quite an accomplishment. As a matter of fact, he and his wife left Montauk because he had to go into the office every day. But we kept our friendship and his family had owned an old farm up in [New Hampshire]. Anyhow, he was very helpful.” Moss, who died in 1997, at 82, would author many books on fishing.

One delightful aspect of the Treasure Chest title was that popular serials would often return to in following years, including the Borth roster of multi-chapter sagas starring rotund hero The Champ; skinny redhead Fearless Ferdy; exuberant Ellie and her baby pachyderm, Googie; and a series about a lively, anthropomorphized jalopy predating The Absent-Minded Professor, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, and My Mother the Car! As we pored over his printed TC work, Frank Borth told me, “I consider myself more of an illustrator than a cartoonist, and when I draw things, I like to be very accurate with it. That speedboat is an accurate drawing of a speedboat. And that car…

Originally, Frank Moss wrote that story. He came up with this thing, it was a flying flivver — Henrietta, the Flying Flivver. Well,

actually, there had been a movie made up with a flying flivver.

It had something to do with a rubber… Flubber! He made it so these two kids could run around in it, and the boy was a little older and the girl was always with a lollipop or something like that. But the flivver was like the elephant. You notice the expression on his face? I used the two headlights for eyes… The actual Model T didn’t have a bumper, there was no bumper on it, so by putting that double-bar bumper on it, I could give it expression on the face. And when I wanted to draw when they were trying to start it up, this guy tried to steal it. Since I don’t have any of the original art, I actually re-did one of the drawings and I was going to do a number of them to color by hand. But, unless you know about the Flying Flivver, why, it’s just a very funny drawing of this thing bucking like a horse.”

The “elephant” Frank referred to was the aforementioned Ellie pet, which was the result of a wager with his editor. “I

Above: In the “cubbyhole” studio of Frank Borth, the artist poses for Ye Ed during a July 2003 visit, displaying his framed artwork for a spectacular 1984 “Montauk Blessing of the Fleet” poster, featuring caricatures of notable summer residents of the fishing village. Below: Presumably drawn for Jerry DeFuccio to accompany Frank’s interview in Cartoonist PROfiles #74 [June 1987], the artist sketched out his work space located at his Montauk abode.

Compare it with the photo of the same studio section seen above.

* According to Steven Borth, his parents thought so much of Frank and Millie Moss that they made arrangements for the childless couple to raise the Borth children should something tragic occur to them.

COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2024 • #34

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son of the flame

Deo’s Good Times & Bad

The grand finale of our Mike Deodato, Jr., profile with insight from Alonso, Faust, and Oswalt

by GREG BIGA

This page: Above is the reprint of As Aventuras do Flama, Deodato Borges’ 1963 Brazilian super-hero Deodato, Jr., revived in 2014 for a commemorative issue honoring his father, who passed away in 2014. Below is Mike’s rendition of The Flame and, inset right, the son’s portrait of his dad.

On August 25th, 2014, one of the great lights in Mike Deodato’s life was extinguished. Deodato Borges was more than Mike’s father; he was a best friend and a mentor, as well. He was also a cultural touchstone in the history of Paraiba, Brazil. His voice and his words entertained, informed, and challenged his community for 50 years. His passing was as much a loss for the South American nation as it was for his son. Borges was that rare and special individual who used his public platform to raise up others and urge his audience to pursue greatness in their own lives.

There can never be another Deodato Borges.

“That was tough, man,” Mike shares.

“Because I thought I would handle it very well, because I never lost anyone close to me. And then I found out that my dad died and I didn’t think I’d cry, because I’m a very macho man and stuff like that.

Man, I cried like a baby. It was so, so hard.

Every time that I mention my dad’s passing in an interview or lecture or something, I would cry in front of everybody. It was embarrassing.

But it was very, very tough for me.

“My dad was like one of those guys from Mad Men. My dad was so much like those guys. I could spend so much of my day watching that series. And I had so much pity for my mom for living in that time. Being treated as ‘just’ a woman. But my dad was like that: he didn’t talk about feelings.

And so, because of that, because he didn’t have those [emotional] moments and stuff like that, I thought I could handle it better. But then, no. I only had the chance to say ‘I love you’ on the night before he died. Because that’s when I had the courage to say that I loved him. That’s how it was with our relationship. It was more about heroes and stuff, but not feelings. We didn’t

ALL IN THE FAMILY “I was more attached to my dad, because of comics, you know,” recalls Deo. “My mom, Maria, was like all other moms — very, very caring, very loving. No complaints at all. I would never be a rebel because I have no cause for it. My parents were great. We weren’t rich or anything like that. On the contrary.

But she was always loving and took care of her kids. She was supportive, just like my dad. But, because my dad was a hero and was in comics, too, I always had more to do with him. We had more things to talk about and stuff like that. My mom was my mom. Of course, I love her. She’s special to me, but she was not a comic book fan. She’s 83 and in very good health. She never exercises and she’s a bit weak, but she’s a big hero. She sometimes cheats by eating candies. She’s diabetic, like me, but she’s okay. She’s in very good condition. Her aunt lived to be 107. So maybe she’ll make it there, too. Me, too!”

Mike was first married in 1988, which gave him his first daughter, Priscilla Gomez. “She’s a production engineer. She knows how to make money. I’m a big fan of hers. I didn’t have to actually help parent her because she always liked to study and was very organized and everything. I only had to ground her one time, when she was seven, and that was it. And, to compensate for things, my new daughter, Ana Julia, she’s seven years old and she’s a devil. But she’s the most adorable devil there is. She’s completely different and I thought, ‘My God, she’s the devil.’ But, apparently, she has a creative side, so maybe I can bring her [out of] the dark side.” Ana Julia’s mother is Mike’s current wife, Ana Paula.

Based on what Mike has previously shared about his time at the drawing board, there’s no doubt that his own life as a dad was difficult. “In the beginning, I was young, of course.

I didn’t know how to balance things, because I thought, ‘Oh my God, I have to grab it.’ So, I worked too much. I was living #34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Flama, illustrations TM & © Mike Deodato, Jr.

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[Last time, in our second installment of this career-spanning conversation with Mike Deodato, Jr., the artist opened up about his fall from comic book grace and resurrection through his talent with the support of some luminaries who refused to give up on him. Here we walk with Deo through his greatest personal loss, individual successes, and, full circle, triumphant return to his first professional character at DC Comics. — G.B.]

talk about feelings. So, I found out the hard way that I was not made of steel.

“Because of that, I had plans to do a revival of his character, The Flame. But I never had the courage. So, I licensed it to a company, and they are developing the character with another artist. My dad was very important to me and my career.”

In honor of his father, Deo did some drawings of his dad’s iconic alter ego. “I did several images of The Flame. I did one in color with a yellow background. I did that for a reprint we did of the first issue of The Flame. It was exactly the same. It was printed with all the advertisements and everything. So, I did the cover that you can remove and have the book be exactly like it was printed in 1963.”

Cy-Gor TM & © Todd McFarlane Productions, Inc.

on four hours of sleep a day in the ’90s. I didn’t have the time needed to shave or cut my hair. So, I was not very present. After I divorced for the first time, in 1996, I had more time with my daughter than when I was married. Because I only could see her on the weekend, I tried to compensate, having more fun and stuff. And, little by little, I learned how to balance my life.

“I learned, especially after my fall at the end of the ’90s, I realized that I had to rewire my brain and everything in my life.

I had to take more control and to have time for myself and my family, because that also influenced my art. So, doing sports and taking care of myself, it was not a waste of time, I believe.

Now I know they’re all parts of the same equation, in the end.

If I was worried about my art, if I don’t pay attention to these things, I would be a bad artist. So, now I spend time with my family. And that’s one of the reasons I never had a studio out of my home. I would never see my family because I work too much. So, I prefer to work at home. My new office is very integrated with my home life. It has a big TV space for my kid to play with toys. So, I’m used to working with them making noise here. Then I participate in the day-by-day life instead of being in the attic or in another studio outside the home. Comics are my life, but I had to make a way to be with my family, too. So, nowadays, I know better.”

It is that change of attitude which has also shifted Deodato’s perception of how he approached his livelihood.

“For years, I thought I was a workaholic. But then, I took one vacation. It was in 2006. It was my first vacation. A 30-day vacation. After 10 days, I wanted to draw. So, it was not work, because I was not working, but I needed to draw. So, I realized, ‘Okay, it’s not that I’m a workaholic, it’s just I love to draw. I have to draw.’ The moments I’m happy is when I’m drawing, when I’m creating a comic. Not only drawing, even framing a page, or getting reference, or writing something. I have to be doing comics, that’s when I’m happy.”

did exams and everything, and turns out there was only 10% left of my optical nerves. (It doesn’t mean I have only 10% of my vision, but it was a mess.) And then he told me that I had to drive home. And then I spent about 10 minutes trying to get onto the road and couldn’t see the other cars. And then I went anyway, guys beeping at me. I drove to my house crying, so my wife couldn’t see it. And that was the last time I drove. I did two surgeries to hold the progression of the disease. I believe it’s working; it’s not getting worse. But what I lost is lost. And the result is that it became so hard to draw. Now I’m completely adapted. It’s like I have been like this my whole life. But it’s so hard because I see everything in a blur, all the time. If I’m talking to you, I cannot see your face correctly. I see better on iPhones or on computers.

For me to draw on paper, it’s a pain. It’s better on computers THE NECESSARY LEAP TO DIGITAL Even a cursory understanding of Mike’s work is to see a strong because I can blow it up and work panel by panel. For me Frank Frazetta influence. Fritz is obviously in his blood. “The first time I saw a Frazetta drawing, it was in Brazil… There was to watch on a television, I cannot. I watch it on an iPad. an article about Frazetta and the drawing was of the flying Even then, the brightness dinosaurs attacking a guy. It was like. ‘Oh, my God!’ I was so is at the maximum. It’s like impressed. Of course, I became crazy about his drawing style, everything that’s bright is very in pen-&-ink, the paintings, and everything. I was fascinated. bright, and everything that is To this day, every time I try to do a guy in a pile of bodies, I dark is very dark. try to do my best-ever Frazetta composition, and I am never “The worst part is not satisfied…. Someday I will find the perfect composition.” knowing if the surgery is Beyond the skill of Frazetta, it is that legend’s conquering of physical ailments brought upon by illness and strokes which gonna work or if it’s gonna get worse. I’m at the limit. best motivate Deodato. Learning a new way of working, as Frazetta did when he taught himself to draw with his opposite If something gets a little bit worse, then I cannot draw hand later in his life, gave a path for Mike to continue his anymore. And there are career. “I’m kind of in a situation like that. I was diagnosed with glaucoma in 1995.” Reveals Mike. “And I’ve been treating regions in my right eye where I cannot see a thing. And then it as well as I could. But, in 2019, suddenly my vision was not [the left] one compensates. good. Actually, a few years before, I had surgery for a cataract For example, before I could in my right eye. And, after that, my right eye was not good read a book. The whole page, enough. And then I complained to my doctor. He said, ‘Yeah, but the surgery [went] okay.’ And it’s getting worse and worse, I could read very fast, because but I had the other one, so I was not worried. But, the problem I would comprehend the paragraphs as one phrase. is, my doctor, he failed. He didn’t realize it was the glaucoma Now I have to read line by eating at the eye. And then, when it finally hit the other eye, line, because the other line my vision was a mess. disappears. And so, it’s very “And then, I went to another doctor, and the pressure was frustrating. I made plans that, very high. And I remember he said it was glaucoma and we COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2024 • #34

Above: At his studio, Mike poses for the camera in 2011.

Below: As of presstime, this Mike Deodato-drawn cover for Spawn #346 [Oct. 2023] just hit the shops.

This beaut is named Cy-Gor, a (you guessed it!) cybernetic gorilla!

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Above: Unspecified Star Wars Tales page by Mike, shared by the artist. Below: Ye Ed first became acquainted with Mike’s artistry with his awesome run on The Incredible Hulk with brilliant writer Bruce Jones, back in the early 2000s.

AN EVOLUTION OF STYLE As the 2000s progressed, Deodato became more cinematic with his art. The gaudiness of his Image-worshiping work was replaced by chiaroscuro and deliberate pacing on the page.

“I didn’t think about it, but what I see is now I have more control, more understanding of the narrative, of the storytelling. So, I don’t worry about [a weakness in storytelling] anymore. For example, in 2001, I started doing The Hulk. I deliberately didn’t want to do any fancy panels or any fancy layouts.

I wanted to concentrate on the storytelling. First, because I was working with Bruce Jones, a great storyteller. So, you just have to draw it exactly like he described it and it will work. You have a class in storytelling. So, I wanted to make it very boring, if you could call it that, in a classical way, one panel after the other. I even made the space between panels more distant, so you couldn’t confuse one panel with another. I had all this careful care with the storytelling. I finally learned that the story is more important than everything else. Everything I put on a

page has to have a meaning to tell the story better. If I put in a big scene or a crooked panel, it has to [have] meaning, not just because I want to make it look nice. But the effect on the reader has to be that a panel is crooked because they must pay attention to it. If I do something different, it is to grab their attention. I have to have a meaning to everything on the page.

I finally understood that.”

Part of Deo’s continued evolution on the page came from the inspiration he took from the work of Jim Steranko’s version of Outland. “Oh, man! I wanted to do something like that. And I also saw Chris Bachalo doing that, with the lines of the panels crossing each other. So, I mixed those styles, and I created something I think is very original. It’s very neat. And I used this on Original Sin, Berserker Unbound, The Resistance, and Bad Mother. I like that because it keeps the narrative very fluid and, at the same time, it makes it look like a puzzle. And I can cross the lines and divide things, so it can feel like a camera is moving. And, at the same time, it gives movement to the page.

I have been using that a lot. I might get tired someday.”

Deo was just as inventive while working on various Star Wars properties. “Al Williamson’s stuff inspired me to do my Star Wars. I did mine thinking, ‘I’m Al Williamson.’ What would he do here? So, I used a lot of horizontal panels to look like a movie screen. I eliminated the [borders] around the panels to make them more ‘free.’ It’s a very different approach from my other stuff. It’s more cinematic, in terms of visuals. When I cast my characters, people can complain. This time I had to do it so the characters look like the actors. It was great to find reference because they are everywhere. You can find references everywhere for spaceships and stuff.

The only bad part was dealing with the licensing company… they are a pain in the ass. I remember the last time I did something for Star Wars; it was a cover that I did five times. The same cover with changes. The last time I said, ‘Okay, I’m not going to change it anymore. You use it or not.’ So, they asked the colorist to make the changes. But, in the comic, it was easy to make little changes. Like, I wanted to make Darth Vader’s head a little smaller. Because he has that big head that doesn’t fit the character. I wanted him to look stronger, but they didn’t want that. But doing [that in] the interior pages was just fine.”

Obviously, Deodato’s evolution was not influenced by only one purposeful decision. “Yeah, it’s very organic. If I like something, then I may say, ‘I should try this.’”

THE INDEPENDENT SPIRIT That same “I should try this” spirit certainly played a part in the unique path that Deo took to joining the world of creator-owned properties. “It started when I published the Cartoon Art of Mike Deodato. It’s always strange when I say my own name on that book, because I’m, like, talking in third person. Like I became ‘that’ guy. But when I put my name on a book, it’s like I’m promoting my own brand. I could use a more creative name for the book, but putting my name on it is like my Coca-Cola brand, or something like that. It’s a way of marketing myself. I made this book with a lot of cartoons I did for my family to give them as a gift. When I had a fight with my wife, I’d do a little cartoon for her and she would forgive me. I did a lot of greeting cards and stuff. A publisher friend of mine convinced me to publish them.

“In the process of editing it, I felt the joy of editing my own book. I was doing detailed writing, I did the lettering, I did the cover… I did everything and it was so fun. It was like doing fanzines again. So, I got the itch. Sometime later, I was interviewed for a program about comics in the ’90s, and I started to #34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Star Wars TM & © Lucasfilm, Ltd. Incredible Hulk TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Man, that was brutal.”

if it gets worse, I’m gonna draw only the layout and ask somebody to finish it. And then I thought I would also start writing. And that’s one of the reasons I decided to do creator-owned work, because I want to leave something for my family. For me, even though it’s working, it’s not getting worse… but I don’t know. So, I want to leave as much intellectual property of mine to my family. I think it’s gonna work. Sometimes I get frustrated trying but, because of digital, I can blow things up, and sometimes I draw by instinct. I don’t talk much about this because I don’t want people to be ‘Oh, poor guy’. But it’s tough.”

Deo suddenly stops talking about his own issues and switches the conversation back to Frazetta. “So, the guy was a master and he had to work with the left hand.

“Rebirth” era at DC comics, the company

rarest air in the mainstream

crossover volumes in the 1990s between

comics industry. He is a

DC and Marvel Comics, and the “Zero

creator who is both an

Hour” event for DC. And, of course,

exemplary artist and writer.

Jurgens was an integral member of the

That separates him and the

crew behind the “Death of Superman”

likes of Walter Simonson,

and subsequent storylines.

Howard Chaykin, John Byrne,

Forty years into his career and

Jim Starlin, Frank Miller, and a

Dan is still a never-ending fountain of

few others from his generation,

creativity. He is, quite simply, at the

from most everyone else. Dan

top of his game and still one of the

possesses great story sense

most sought-after comic book creators

and has proven to be, since his

working today.

earliest outings, one of the true masters of his craft.

I give a big “thank you” to Dan for talking through his career with me over

Dan has been at the center

a span of three months. This time-frame

of many of the major events in

includes marrying off his son during the

comic book history since the late

COVID-19 era and launching a new

1980s. This includes the recent

Booster Gold/Blue Beetle series. — G.B.

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#34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Superman, associated characters TM & © DC Comics. Photo courtesy of Dan Jurgens.

Dan Jurgens is in the

Booster Gold, Cyborg, Batman TM & © DC Comics.

Comic Book Creator: Who are the people who brought you into this world and what impression did they have on you?

Dan Jurgens: In terms of impression my parents made on me, they owned a hardware store on Main Street of a very small, Midwestern town — Ortonville, Minnesota — and they did what any business owner or farmer had to do in that situation: they worked their butts off. My dad literally went to that store seven days a week (though only for a couple hours on Sunday). The value of hard work was on display all the time. More than that, they really encouraged me to follow my passion for drawing. My dad built me a drawing table when I was in fifth or sixth grade, and I couldn’t begin to guess how many hours I spent at the board honing my skills. I most likely had a Kirby, Buscema, Adams, Cockrum, Starlin, Grell, or Simonson comic open on the board, so I could look at what they were doing and try to apply it to my own work.

Their encouragement was crucial.

So was my dad’s willingness to let me read comics, because my mom was a bit against the idea. They still remembered the bad news reports from the Kefauver Hearing and Seduction of the Innocent days.

CBC: What effect did that have on you growing up? Being in that type of community as opposed to people who grew up in a large city, like a Pittsburgh?

Dan: I do think it is an area where everybody knew everybody. There is, I think, an attitude of friendship.

People are looking out for each other much more so than you do in a place where you’re much more anonymous, of mutual support, and stuff like that.

Also, in a time where there was a lot of pride and worth placed on a sense of industriousness, a work ethic, an ethic for life, things like that. I think that’s all part of the package.

CBC: Are you an only child?

Dan: I have one sister, who is two years younger than me.

CBC: Growing up the way you did, when did art, or at least the creative process, enter your life?

Dan: I think you have to go with earliest memories there. I always liked to draw. I always liked this idea that I could sit down and draw and create something. And I do believe that, as part of that, in growing up in a small town, in a place and a time where I should say that there were only the three TV networks, and finding your own creative outlets, there was a lot to that. It was very important. So, that was an important part of my background.

I remember being in… I think it was second grade… we all had to sit there one day and do self-portraits. It was one of these things where everyone in the classroom gets their drawing done, and they go hang it up on the walls, and mine looked different than everyone else’s. And, part of it was, because it was better. And then, I started to realize that, “Gee, I’m kind of good at this.” And it was something not only was I good at, but I enjoyed it, and I wanted to pursue

COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2024 • #34

it. I would always be the kid who was drawing. Whether it was doodling in a notebook all the time, sitting in my room and drawing all the time, making up my own stories, or whatever. That was always an important part of who I was.

CBC: Every kid draws or paints and it rarely moves forward. Did you think at the time that this would be a life’s pursuit? Or was it something you were going to do just for fun?

Dan: Oh, no. Not at all did I think it was going to be a life’s pursuit, because I didn’t realize anyone did that sort of thing. You know, we’re talking about a time where, let’s say, you’re six, seven, eight years old, I don’t think you’re necessarily aware of the idea that somewhere there are adults who do this and make a socalled “living” at it. That’s just a sort of an alien thought process, I think, to have at that age. I think that it wasn’t until I was probably much more around the time frame of getting into sixth grade (or something like that), where I started to have the appreciation for the idea that somewhere there were adults who apparently worked in a factory creating art. And maybe that’s how it goes. So, at that very young age, I never had that sense.

CBC: What were the things, art related or just in general, that motivated you as a kid? What were the things that tapped on those heartstrings and instilled in you a sense of wonder?

Dan: Part of it is, to go back to that time frame, I did not know comics existed. My first exposure to this idea of comics, super-heroes, that entire art form, was through the old Adam West, live action Batman TV show. I got hooked on it. I was at that prime age, you know — first season — being able to watch it, and just go, “Wow,” like every other kid in the neighborhood.

And, one summer night, I was walking through the neighborhood, and I saw a couple of older kids sitting out on their front stoop and they were looking at these four-color pamphlets. I walked up to see what was going on and that was the first time I saw a comic book.

I distinctly remember, and I was probably around seven years old, these kids were older than me and they had comics that went back a few years, one of them had that classic Batman [#156, June 1963, reprinted in #185, Oct. 1966] cover, “Robin Dies at Dawn.” And I’m just going, “Whoa, Robin’s dead?! How can that be? I just saw him on TV last night?” You know, that kind of thing. And that was my first exposure to the idea that Batman and Robin lived outside the realm of TV, in some different form of media.

I knew of Superman, and so, sitting there and looking at those comics, I was immediately hooked. And my reaction was, when I went home, “Mom, I’ve got to go downtown to the dime store or to the drug store, and buy comics. Because that’s where they said they sell them. And I want a Batman comic.” At that time, Batman was all the craze. And, within a couple of days, I was at the store, they had no Batman comics, so I bought instead Superman #189 [Aug. 1966], and

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when we first met, and have been together ever since.

So her being with me is not that much different than, for example, if she worked in the insurance agency, because she’s a graphic designer now and always had been. So the professions have always been related. Not only that, all our friends were in the creative fields, as well. It wasn’t as unique as it might have seemed.

CBC: That is unique to me because I’m never coming across people in my own social circle who have a similar background. And certainly none who were with me in college.

So, the fact that this is a truism for you is something that I’m

Above: In mid-1981, Dan attended one of Mike Grell’s personal appearances, at a Twin Cities comic book shop, a meeting which resulted in the young man getting the Warlord art assignment, which started his professional career in comics. This is a pic of Dan and Mike posing with broad smiles, at a comic convention in 2022.

Below: Very early Dan Jurgens water-color rendering of Travis Morgan, the Warlord. Heritage attributes the work to having been done in the 1980s, though the artist surmised it may have been done before going professional.

#34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Warlord TM & © DC Comics. Photo courtesy of Dan Jurgens.

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glad actually happens for people.

Dan: Yeah! And it can all work.

CBC: [Laughs] You have two sons, is that correct?

Dan: Correct. Yes. CBC: In my current position, I put in up to 18 hours a day away from home. With the hours that you put in, how are you present?

Dan: You know, that’s a question I ask myself all the time.

And I say that because, if I go back and look at my career, there was a long period of time where I worked crazy hours. There was a time when I was writing and drawing two books a month — I was doing Superman and Justice League. And then, when I wasn’t doing Justice League, I was still doing Superman, and I didn’t then just not do anything else. I always filled that time with other stuff.

I was extremely disciplined. I always have been. I was always very efficient. That was one thing I learned as a student and also professionally before I started doing comics. And I was very committed. I found a way to make it work.

You know, with young kids, I had a studio in the house and

we’d have the playpen in the studio or have a kind of swinging wind-up chair in the studio that would go back and forth and the kids would fall asleep in it. Whatever. We always found a way to make it work. Now, I do look back on it more and just say, “How did I do that?” [Greg chuckles] You know? That kind of thing.

CBC: You made a way. Even if it was not active time, it was still time in presence. Is that a way to phrase it?

Dan: That’s exactly the way to phrase it. We found a way to make it work. As I said, through discipline, through commitment, through that sense of being really efficient with your time — and making time work well — there’s a way to do it. And I think people who have worked with me and known me over the years will say “Yeah, that’s probably Dan and that sounds right.”

CBC: You had mentioned earlier about having not gone to a con except for possibly one before you were a pro. Was that when you met Mike Grell?

Dan: I actually met Mike… so, as a kid, going back to my time as a reader, when I’m, like, 13 or 14 years old, I had written fan letters to two different artists. One was Walter Simonson and the other was Mike Grell. Both were kind enough to answer me. And with Mike… Mike was actually appearing in the Twin Cities, at a comic store, on a personal appearance. It wasn’t a convention, it was a comic store.

I stopped by, after work. It was, like, a Friday [and] he was there for the weekend. On Friday afternoon, I got done [working], say 4:30, I drove over there and stopped by, and I showed him the note he had sent back to me, like, years earlier.

I said, “Thank you for sending that to me.” And then I showed him my work. Mike was also there with his wife, Sharon. Mike really liked what he saw in my portfolio, and he happened to say, “Well, it just so happens that we’re looking at the idea of making a change on Warlord.” He was still writing it. He was no longer drawing the book. And he wanted something different.

A different sort of look on the book, at that time. And he said, “Do a couple of drawings of the Warlord and send them to me.”

And so, at this point, we’re talking autumn, 1981. I did that and I sent a couple of those to the book’s editor, who was Lorie Sutton. And they gave me, like, a five-page test sequence to draw. Which, I think, they also gave to another artist, but I don’t know who it was, but that’s what they always told me. I believe this was in December of 1981. They ended up picking mine and they said, “Well, the book is yours for a couple of issues.”

So, I was off and running.

CBC: So, you have the unique experience of not being the guy who had to send sample after sample to DC and Marvel and getting shot down like [Todd] McFarlane and his box of rejection letters. You never had to go through that humiliating process.

Dan: I did not. I had sent a couple of things in, but at a much younger age. Again, I was out of college, I was working, I was doing something else. I was fielding all sorts of job offers, as a matter of fact, from other places there. As much as comics were still an interest, as much as they were still a passion, I just didn’t think there was that much of a future there, that it was going to work out or anything. But I said, “Okay. I’ll do this.” I did not quit my day job and, for the first three issues, I kept working during the day and, at night, would go home and draw comics. And it wasn’t until they said, “Okay, the book is yours,” that I then quit my day job and started to say, “Maybe this is the answer. This is the future.” Which I was very happy about. Don’t get me wrong.

I’m sort of making it sound like I was super-casual about it. And I wasn’t. Once I started, I wanted to make it work. And I said, “This is what I want to do. At least for a couple of years.”

CBC: And Grell was still writing it for you, is that correct?

Sun Devils, Booster Gold TM & © DC Comics.

ed publisher publishes a variety of materials.

CBC: And it’s around that time that DC specifically started putting the names of the writer, artist, etc., on the front cover.

Which had not been the case for its previous history.

Dan: Oh, yeah. I mean, certainly, if I go back, gosh, I don’t remember what year, but because I would draw the cover, I could sign the cover. But they still didn’t have our names on the cover in set type. So, all of a sudden, to get to the point where they were going to put our names on the cover, and emphasize the creator a little bit, was like, “Oh, wow! Gee! Cool!” Because that had not existed prior to that point.

CBC: Opinion question: was that driven by Jenette or partly because of the theft of Frank Miller from Marvel?

Dan: I don’t know. I heard different stories about that. I remember it being a point of conversation earlier. And I remember other creators saying, “Yeah, we should try and get our names on the covers. It should be more like the book publishing industry.” And that’s the phrase we used a lot in those days, “It should be more like the book publishing industry.” Since I didn’t make that decision, and I wasn’t in the room when the decision was made, I’m not 100% sure of how they got there.

But they certainly did get there.

CBC: Since this is a new frontier, its own thing and a breakaway from the ’70s, with the possibilities of creator-owned and new creations coming about, talk me through how the creation of Booster Gold came about.

Dan: At that point, part of that attitude there, I was going to be winding up my time on Sun Devils. As part of this, I said, “Now that I’m starting to build this thing, where I write and draw, I’m not going to let that go. I’m going to pursue this.”

I always had different ideas of what a potentially different super-hero could be. It could be one that, quite frankly, that had I, at the age of 22, been a super-hero, probably would have pursued. Which is: “I’m gonna make a little money at it. I’m not Bruce freakin’ Wayne. I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth.” And, when we see how the media react to celebrities, super-heroes would be celebrities, so there’d be interest in that.

And then you could endorse products. All that stuff. These are all thoughts that I had. I was just coming off Sun Devils, and doing a convention in Dallas, and I sat down with Dick Giordano one morning for breakfast, and said I had this idea and it’s for this. This character who plays the celebrity angle and he does endorsements and all that.

Dick said, “You mean a hero-for-hire.” And I said, “No. Not a hero-for-hire. It’s someone who does the right thing, but he understands our media and our culture, and uses it to his advantage. But he still does the right thing.” And Dick liked it so much, he essentially bought it on the spot, and we were off and running. And he said, “What’s his name?” And I said, “Booster Gold.” And he said, “What kind of name is that?” I said, “He’s a COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2024 • #34

booster in that he boosts his own profile. Boosting also is something you can use in terms of “I stole something,” and he stole the equipment that got him here. The Gold signifies his interest in using it to prosper. So that’s the name. And it’s different. And it’s meant to be different. And DC wanted different. And the one thing he said was, “Okay we’ll do this. Write something up for me.” Because I didn’t even have it written down at that point.

[Greg laughs] I said, “Here’s what I want to do, Dick.” And so, I put it together, and we were off and running.

CBC: I’m going to segue for just a little off the Booster Gold topic because you mentioned Dick.

There are comments about him being the fatherly figure and definitely not the Harvey Kurtzman kind of controlling editor. More along the lines of the “best pal” kind of guy. What was it like working with Dick?

Dan: It was wonderful. I worked with Dick in a lot of different ways, because he also inked so much work of mine over the years. So we worked together very well. Dick was one of the biggest supporters I had. He liked my stuff.

He liked the way I worked. Obviously, I think tremendously highly of him. I can’t say anything bad about Dick. And it was unique because, earlier I referenced early in my career doing a couple of Batman stories, which I think were Detective Comics #525 [Apr. 1983] and Batman #359 [May ’83]… something like that… and Dick inked those. And then later, on Green Arrow, we worked together, because he inked that. When I did Armageddon 2001, Dick inked that. So there was a point where Dick had inked more of my work than most anyone else had for quite some time.

We worked together in, both the sense of collaborating creatively, as well as, you know, he was the boss. But the nice thing was, because Dick had been an artist and an editor, I mean, he worked in so many different capacities, you could have a conversation with Dick about the realities and problems of working in comics. If that makes sense. That, again, it’s harder to find today. You don’t find many editors, once again I’ll keep beating this drum, who had worked artistically and generated as much as Dick Giordano had.

And so, there was a commonality and a bond between someone who worked on the staff in that capacity and someone who was a freelancer.

CBC: You two were paired with the one of the earliest appearances of Killer Croc. Gerry Conway

Below: From the back cover of Booster Gold: The Big Fall, a hardcover collection of Booster Gold #1–12 [1986–87], these panels, by penciler Dan Jurgens and inker Mike DeCarlo, originally appeared (with slightly different wordage) in the second issue of Booster Gold [Mar. 1986].

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Superman, Lois Lane, Action Comics TM & © DC Comics. Photo courtesy of Dan Jurgens.

CBC: The first comic you ever purchased was a Superman comic. The way the Batman show kind of put the bug in you regarding the character, did you have a similar experience with the TV show for Superman? Or was it something completely different that introduced him to you?

Dan: It really was. If we were to go back in time a little bit, the first comic I ever bought was Superman #189. That was not my first exposure. I knew who Superman was and I can’t even necessarily say what my first exposure was. But I never really had seen the live action Superman TV show, because it wasn’t in my market. I know that, eventually, when the Filmation animated Superman series was on that I was a fan of that and everything.

But I was just more aware of Superman through the different aspects of pop culture that were floating around at that time.

Which is a little more elusive and hard to pin down.

CBC: What were some of the things that you enjoyed about the character as a younger man? Who were the people you enjoyed doing the book when you were a fan?

Dan: A couple of things, dealing with the first part of the question, I think it was the powers. At that time, I was the right age to buy in to the more whimsical aspects of the book and the character. If we go back to it, Superman was somewhat of a sad figure because he was something of a loner, right? I mean, Supergirl was around and we’d see other characters he was associated with. But Clark Kent was still a sort of stumble bum and there was something sad about Superman. I think I responded to that. When I say “sad,” I’m also responding to the sense of nobility that drove him to be isolated, and that being part of what made him sad. In addition to that, it was the cool powers. Here’s a guy who can fly and lift an entire battleship, for example. Here’s someone from another planet and we’re aware of that background. So, I think it was just the attraction to the character, the features of the character, the dual identity stuff… because I always enjoyed the Clark Kent aspects of Superman.

How many times we would see, “Man, if I saw Clark Kent and Superman on the same cover playing that super-hero dual-identity question… ‘How can this possibly be?,’ that they did all the time,” [laughs] and that I would later do myself — you know, I was instantly hooked. So, those are the things I was attracted to.

And, as for the creators, I didn’t know who was doing them at that point, because the credits weren’t in the books. But I certainly thought of Curt Swan as the best of the Superman artists. At that time, Wayne Boring seemed a little clunky to me.

I say that now with shame. [laughs] Because I now appreciate his work in a much different way. And I always thought Al Plastino was great. And that’s a lot of the artists I would have been exposed to at that time.

CBC: Regarding the folks you mentioned, and I’ll ask about Swan because, kind of like Carl Barks as the “good duck artist,” Swan gets brought up by most folks when it comes to doing Superman. What was it about his take that touches a nerve for you?

Dan: I think the nice thing about his work is that he brought such a sense of humanity to Superman. And, when I say that, I’m addressing the entire cast. But, if you go back, he had this subtlety of expression on the part of his characters that was always very, very nice. It was true of Superman. It was true of Lois, and Jimmy, and Perry, and the entire cast. He was just a very good draftsman. I think those are the things I responded to there.

CBC: When it comes to looking at the character where you are now, are there other creators in your mind, not necessarily people you worked with, but people you had the chance to enjoy, who really “had” the character?

COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2024 • #34

Dan: Going back to that time one of the things I responded to very well was picking up a World’s Finest comic, I don’t remember the issue number [#176, June 1968], and it was the story drawn by Neal Adams. It had Batgirl and Supergirl in it, as well. So, it was Superman, Batman, Batgirl, and Supergirl, which is a great combination to start with. At that time, I certainly responded to it as a different depiction and approach to Superman.

There was a dynamism there that could not be denied and I really liked it. Again, I don’t think there would have been credits in the books even then.

But that would have just been within the next two years. I just saw it as being different, but there was something about this that was just so cool. And then, obviously, years later, when Neal did the Superman and Muhammad Ali book, that’s just an astounding achievement. I mean, it is just a work of complete brilliance. So, I’d go with that.

If we’re going to go deeper into the years at the same time, José Luis Garcia-Lopéz started to appear in the books. He did a just stunning Superman. I liked Rich Buckler’s Superman. And, of course, when John Byrne came and kind of gave it the big face-lift, he was brilliant. I think Byrne’s stuff on Superman was absolutely brilliant.

CBC: And you’re giving me a segue here. When it came to the folks who were doing it not too long prior to Byrne and his relaunch, you had Curt Swan who had been doing the Superman books and you had Marv Wolfman and Gil Kane doing Action

This page: At top is Dan at WonderCon 2019, plus his variant cover for Action Comics #1000 [June 2018], inked by Kevin Nowlan.

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Above: That’s Dan Jurgens in the way-back, with outstretched arm, among the “Superman team,” which included a beaming Jenette Kahn, and Paul Levitz standing behind seated Jerry Siegel, esteemed co-creator of the character! Readers are challenged to tell us just who are the attendees of this 1993 dinner function.

Below and next page: Penciler Dan Jurgens and inker Kevin Nowlan’s Dynamic Forces edition of the Action Comics #1000 [June 2018] variant cover in various stages.

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Action Comics, Superman TM & © DC Comics. Photo courtesy of Dan Jurgens.

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Comics. What were your thoughts about going from what had been the “norm” of Superman to the relaunch, as a reader and someone who was in the field when the change was made?

Dan: It was a tremendous breath of fresh air that [Byrne] brought to Superman. I don’t know that he necessarily had to go as far as he did, in terms of getting rid of Superboy and the Legion, which caused a problem. But the flipside is, we got back a Superman being the last son of Krypton. Which, I think, is tremendously important to the character. To me, there should be one Superman. Just one Superman. And he should be the last son of Krypton with minimal contact with any other Kryptonians.

At that time, it seemed that they’d gotten to the point where there were Kryptonians everywhere. He cut back on that.

And he also brought Ma and Pa Kent back into the books as this human touch-point for an adult Superman, that I think was a tremendous idea. I mean, that was just a great contribution to the series. Again, something that we would use once we were doing the book, because it was something that helped define Superman so well. It helped define his humanity. And you

could see, where did his character come from? It came from these two really earnest people. So I always thought that was great.

CBC: After John had done his main run, you start getting your decades-long association with the character as a penciler on Adventures of Superman. Who was writing that for you at the time?

Dan: The first thing I did was Adventures of Superman Annual #1 that Jim Starlin wrote. I had done a couple of things with Superman earlier. It’s weird. I had done a Justice League story for Julie Schwartz that, to this day, has never been printed.

It was a flashback story that was written by Elliott Maggin, I believe, and kind of was an untold story of the Justice League back in their earliest days, when they were still in the cave, not the satellite, and things like that. It never got printed, which is too bad. I think that might have been my first crack with Superman, aside from using him in Booster Gold. But then, when I moved into the Superman editorial office, in a more official sense, was when Mike Carlin called me up one day, and he had seen the pencils to an issue of Booster Gold — it might have been #17 or something like that — he said, “You should draw a Superman. We want to try you out if you’re game for it.” And that was always funny to me because, a couple years earlier, when Karen Berger was, at that time, editorial coordinator at DC, Karen asked, “Can you draw Superman?” And I said (this is pre-Byrne), “No. I’m not Curt Swan and only Curt Swan can draw Superman.”

But [Carlin] had this script by Jim Starlin that was really nice, and I had just enough time to fit it in, so I took it on. From there, we were off and running. And then, when I went on to Adventures of Superman proper, the idea was that George Pérez was going to write it and I was going to draw it. And, at the same time, George was drawing Action Comics and it was written by Roger Stern. I think George was having a hard time keeping up with everything and I think he had to duck out after just three issues. Mike asked, at that point, “Do you want to take over writing it as well?” And I said, “Oh, my God.” [laughter] “Okay.” I had full confidence that I could draw Superman and make it look good. I didn’t have the same level of confidence that I could write Superman and make it read well. [laughs] That’s kind of how it all came together.

CBC: You already mentioned Carlin, so I’ll just segue there: what were some of the contributions, and the leadership aspects that he had, and the talent collection that he brought, to the Superman series of titles?

Dan: It’s interesting. Mike was absolutely sort of like the perfect editor for Superman. In addition to having been a Superman fan himself, he had this very concrete view of who Superman and Clark Kent were as characters. As well for everyone else in the books. What he understood was how to hire talent that shared that vision.

Whether it was Jerry Ordway, whether it was Roger Stern, Louise Simonson, Jon Bogdanove… I mean, you can just go down the list. The people he hired in that moment had, I think, this shared view of who Superman was. And that was going to become absolutely critical later in the way we would work with this sense of connected storytelling. When you have an editor who is editing one character’s family of books, that’s sort of something you really have to have. And Mike absolutely had that. On top of that, he had a sense of compassion about Superman, and what the books could achieve, that helped inspire the creators who were working for him. So he was absolutely fantastic and the perfect person to be editing Superman. Especially at that time.

Above: Dan Jurgen’s version of Webhead, the Sensational Spider-Man, in a 1995 poster he penciled (at right) and was finished

by Klaus Janson, inker (above).

Opposite page: At top, to the writer/artist’s delight, his Superman/Fantastic Four [May 1999], was published in treasury-size format, at 10" x 13.5" Over Dan’s pencils, Alex Ross finished the cover and Art Thibert finished the interior art. Partnered with an enthusiastic John Romita, Jr., as penciler and Klaus Janson, inker, writer Jurgens produced a wild run of Thor during the Heroes Reborn reboot of 1998.Below: The Ben Reilly version of the character was established by writer/artist Jurgens in his Sensational Spider-Man run.

Cover detail from SSM #0 [Jan. 1996].

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Sensational Spider-Man TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Alien or a non-powered Superman. One of the two. We went with the non-powered Superman. It was a lot of fun to do. I had been working with Brett Breeding mostly on the regular books, but we brought in Kevin Nowlan to ink it. So, it had this sort of different, spooky, ethereal, kind of Gothic feel to it. Which was very effective. It was great fun.

CBC: What are some other things with Superman that you’ve had your hands on that are just as defining of the character in your run on “Death of Superman” and subsequent storylines?

Was there anything that was just important to you afterwards?

Dan: Afterwards, yes. Even stories we did at that time, there were some stories that I thought were very important to the character. I did a couple of stories called, “Metropolis Mail Bag,” where we established that, every Christmas, people would write to Superman, in the same way they’d write to Santa Claus. And this mail would just end up in a main Metropolis post office.

Letters asking Superman for help. And every Christmas, Superman would go read these bags, and bags, and bags of mail, then, on a couple of occasions, go help the people he could help. And I thought, “I’m still attracted to those. I could do one of those every year and not be repetitive.” Because that expands the concept of stories and it addresses the character of who Superman is so very, very well. So, that would be one.

I know I did, when I was still on Adventures of Superman, this is when I was inked by Norm Rapmund, before Brett and I worked together, a teen drunk driving story that went back to Clark’s high school days, that I still think is something that said quite a lot about the character. Years later, I did Superman: Day of Doom, which was a four-issue series that Bill Sienkiewicz inked, that I thought added something to the overall concept of the “Death of Superman.” And then I started writing Action Comics again… yeah, 2016, as part of the DC Rebirth effort. And, before that, the Lois and Clark mini-series, in which we said we’re going to give Lois and Clark a son. And that was part

of bringing Superman, as DC had done in New 52, as part of bringing Superman back into the DC Universe, I think, more of who he should be.

And doing some of that. And I did the mini-series [Lois and Clark] with Lee Weeks that started to address that.

And, as I said, I wrote Action Comics, which took all this a little bit further, where Jonathan Kent was a little older and, again, it helped humanize Clark, and along with Lois, in such a way that it made Superman more relevant.

CBC: How was that working with Lee? Dan: Oh, that was fabulous. We had done an issue of Thor together sometime earlier, and I’d always been a fan of his work. Lee is just one of these guys who is an artist’s artist. He is so passionate about his work and what he brings to it. He thinks out the story he’s telling so well that you almost hate to put word balloons down on the panels at times. He drew a very, very human Superman and a very human Jon and Lois. And that’s where you find the emotion in it. And it’s the emotion that bonds them. So he was perfect for that project.

CBC: There’s varying opinions on Superman and on his place in the world, in general. One of the artists I had talked to not long ago, who had been an artist on Batman, Graham Nolan, shared that it’s a lot easier to be a really good Batman artist, because of what you can hide, but it’s not as easy to be a Superman artist because everything is out there. What was the challenge, from the ’90s to now, for you with the character? How has his relevance and importance changed for you since then?

Dan: First of all, I think Graham is right. The cool thing about Batman, he can also appear in so many more forms. I mean, you could just let the ears on the cowl and the cape take over the form, right? And do it as this massive black silhouette and you can’t make a mistake. With Batman, it’s almost impossible to make a mistake. Part of that is because, even if you do it as that shape, if not 100%, it can still be 95% filled with ink, and this tremendous black form can take over the panel or the page and you’ll never be wrong. With Superman being more of a creature of light, that’s a little different. People might disagree with that. There’s plenty, too. But I agree with him on that one.

As for Superman now… the question I have always gotten, and, every time I do a newspaper interview, God, I swear I would get this… They would always ask, “Is Superman so much of a Boy Scout that he no longer has any relevance in today’s world? Isn’t he sort of old fashioned and outdated and outmoded because of that?” And my answer to that is, and always will be, “If that’s true, it says a lot more about us than it does Superman. And what it says about us is highly negative. Not at all good.” And I don’t necessarily agree with that. Superman has always been a heroic figure who has been there to kind of show us the best attributes of who we are and can be. I think that

All characters TM & © DC Comics.

Ditko Spider-Man story. When I started reading the book, John Romita, Sr., was drawing it. I had never seen a Ditko story until I saw some of the reprints. That was like, “Oh, this is kind of interesting.” But, for me, the guy who really pulled me in was Gil Kane. Gil did this, from an anatomical standpoint, different sort of Spider-Man who looked like there was no pose he could not get into. Later, I think McFarlane and Erik Larsen would evoke that spirit of how he appeared.

But, for me, I can’t remember the issue number [#92, Jan. 1971], but it had Spider-Man fighting the Iceman who was sliding all over the city on his ice shield, and everything. It’s like, “Oh my God, this is beautiful.”

The Spider-Man artist who hooked me, and it’s more the era I was introduced to him and got into him, was Gil Kane. And then later, it was Ross Andru. Ross did this very unique Spider-Man. He didn’t have the anatomical wonkiness that, say, Gil Kane’s did, but New York city felt so real. Years later, when I was working for Ross, because he was an early editor of mine at DC, he would talk how he photographed everything. He said, “I would just walk around New York and take pictures. I would just go up on buildings and see if I could get on the roof and take pictures so I’d get the down shots,” and things like that. Ah-ha! I can see that now. No wonder! Certainly, his stuff was terrific, as well.

CBC: The Marvel time you had put your hands on some serious iconic characters. You worked on Thor and Captain America. When it comes to those characters — Captain America first — what drove that character for you? That character has had its peaks and a lot more valleys in its history.

Dan: Cap was a case where Bobbie Chase was editing the book, at the time.

She called me up and said, “Have you ever thought about writing Captain America? Because we would like you to do that if you’re interested.” Well, well!

Cap was, for me, a very difficult character to write. And I say that because, to me, Captain America, among all the characters that we have in comics, seems to reflect the times he is being published in, more so than any other character. And that’s because he was created to be exactly that in the 1940s. I think that, years later, we’re in the midst of Watergate, Steve Englehart is writing him and gives him this very particular reflection of where we were as a country at that point.

The problem is, if you get pulled into that too deeply, you end up writing a Captain America who gives a speech every three pages. It’s always where, is this the line I want to walk? What do I want to deal with here? How do I make that work? For me, that’s what made Cap a tough book to write, was always finding that sense of balance. I think Jack Kirby had done a story once in Jimmy there are a few moments where I did and Olsen, where Superman finds this place called where I didn’t. It makes him this very unique Supertown, which is filled with people with character that way. I enjoyed that. super-powers and god-like powers, which, in a I really enjoyed doing it. At first, I had Andy way, is Asgard. Take Superman and put him in Kubert drawing it. We had worked together on Asgard and how does he relate to everybody?

Thor, as well. It was great stuff. Andy would just Quite interesting of Thor is, being a god among bring this magic to whatever it is he does. It’s men, how he relates to everybody. When I first also part of what makes Cap tough. I wonder started writing Thor, I very consciously, right about that now because, as one of the characin the very first issue, had Thor walking down ters we used right away was the Hate Monger, the street and people saying, “Are you really who I think now would even have more relea god? You say you are a god. Are you really a vance to where we’re at today, in a polarized god?” What does that mean? Can you imagine, country like this. It was a lot to tackle. If I were right now, someone walking down Broadway ever going to do Captain America again, I’d who just stops and starts saying, “I am a god!”? want to take three years off just thinking about And they’re speaking expressively in this it to and then start. flowery, Shakespearean sort of dialect! That is, CBC: You went from the “Man Out of Time,” to me, where you’d have a lot of fun putting who exposes what the times look like (I think is Superman and Thor together, because, while a way to describe Cap) to working with Kubert their power levels might be the same, they are and Lee Weeks on Thor. You mentioned about very different characters. I would love to do that putting Thor together with Superman. What discussion between the two of them, where would be so wonderful about putting those two they talk about that. “You lived in this place characters together? called Smallville. Why would you do that?!” “You lived in a place called Asgard Dan: To me, Superman is someone with the powers of a god who chooses to with other gods. Why would you want to do that?” They’re very different. be — and is — incredibly human. Thor is someone who has the powers of a god CBC: I’ve asked similar questions already, but when it comes to Thor you have who, to me, embraces that. I think that makes for a very different background.

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Top: Street view of 1304 Glenwood Road, in the Flatbush neighborhood of Brooklyn, where Byron Cary Preiss grew up and the mailing address he used for his early fan efforts.

Inset right: Byron’s senior portrait taken for the 1969 Midwood High School Yearbook.

Below: Byron is highlighted in this group portrait of the Midwood High School “commissioners,” presumably a student leadership group at the public institution.

Above: Spectacular Zero Hour: Crisis in Time piece by Dan and Jerry rendered for the cover of the July, 1994, edition of the Advance Comics distribution catalog.

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All characters TM & © DC Comics.

Previous page: Inset center is penciler Dan Jurgens and inker Jerry Ordway cover for the Zero Hour: Crisis in Time Collection [1994].

The same art team produced the cover, prominently featuring Hal Jordan as Parallax, for a 2018 reprinting of the mini-series.

several different versions that led up to yours. What were some that you were impressed by or that influenced you?

Dan: The first version I was ever subjected to was John Buscema’s Thor, written by Len Wein. I had read Thor earlier when he was in The Avengers. And then, again, when Marvel would come out, I have a couple of these still, with the giants that they would do that reprinted the old Kirby stuff. It was like, “Holy sh*t! This is spectacular!” Then I would later seek those out a bit and try to find those stories, and say, “This is where it came from.” This is the evolution that we went through for him as a character. So later you have the Buscema stuff, which was so powerful, and then you eventually transitioned into Walter Simonson’s stuff, which was evocative of the Kirby stuff. The thing that’s interesting to me is Thor had always had this sense of consistency, it seemed, where the people who worked on Thor seemed to embrace the world of Thor and emphasize that.

Now, writers very often take over a book and they say, “Oh, the four years of stuff you read before that… forget that! Bull-

sh*t! I’m throwing it out the window! I’m starting all over again because I know better.” And that’s a very common sentiment now, which I think, rips off the readers. Back then, if you look at how books progressed, it was very often creative teams that found what was magic and what really worked in the iterations before them, trying to capitalize on that, while also bringing something fresh to it.

CBC: Going back to that ’90s era at DC: you moved forward with Zero Hour with you and Jerry Ordway. What was the germination point of that for you? Why was that the next thing on your docket after Superman?

Dan: There were a couple of things. One of which was because we were seeing DC’s classic heroes age throughout the books. Hal Jordan was getting gray hair. He was getting gray at the temples, sort of like Reed Richards. In Green Arrow, Oliver Queen was basically celebrating a birthday every year. We saw him turn 44, then we saw him turn 45, and maybe 46. All of a sudden they were getting demonstrably older. The Justice Society characters were getting to the point where they would have all been 75, 80 years old. Not just in their 50s or even 40s, like they would have been, presumably, when we first met them in the ’60s, as the Earth-One, Earth-Two thing became a reality. So they were aging. There was kind of this sense around DC that we were painting ourselves into a corner. I know that I was probably big on that. I kept saying that, if we keep going down this road, it’s a trap. At the same time, there was an editor on staff by the name of K.C. Carlson who was also sort of saying some of the same things, although we had never really discussed it. I had turned something in, in terms of a quick pitch on a “maybe here’s what we should do” kind of thing. And then Mike Carlin put K.C. and I together, and we started to come up with what became Zero Hour as a way of dealing with some of those problems.

CBC: What was that like as a writer taking that on? That’s kind of become your wheelhouse to reset that type of thing.

Dan: I think anybody would say, any writer, writing any kind of company-wide crossover, is a special punishment all its own potentially. [laughs] Which it is. Back then, it was a lotPREVIEW, harder IF YOU ENJOYED THIS because we weren’t sending images theTO internet.

I wasTHIS CLICK THE over LINK ORDER ISSUE OR DIGITAL FORMAT! getting some stuff via email,IN butPRINT a very small portion. What I ended up having to do was clear out an entire wall for space in my studio, where I had stacks of paper on the floor, for each book, in order of its release.

Say week one was Batman, World’s Finest, and Action Comics, I’d have those in alphabetical order on my “Week One” column, and stuff like that. Ultimately, the amount of paperwork I had sitting in my office was just enough to cave in a house.

I’m surprised it didn’t just collapse on itself. It’s tracking all the characters. It’s working with all the editors. It’s working with all the other creators, as well to work it through and make sure they got what they needed for their characters in their story.

And, at the same time, what also made it hard, because no one had ever done this before, I was drawing it. And it was five COMIC BOOK CREATOR #34 issues that came out DAN in five weeks’ written and drawn by JURGENS talkstime, about Superman, Sun Devils, creating Booster Gold, developing the “Doomsday scenario” with the one guy. I haven’t seen anything done like that since. I dare say, demise of the Man of Steel, and more! Traverse DON GLUT’s “Glutverse” Gold Key,come Marvel,out andin DC! now — today — if you’re going continuity to have across five issues Plus RICK ALTERGOTT, we conclude our profiles of MIKE five weeks, not only would it not be written and drawn by the DEODATO, JR. and FRANK BORTH, LINDA SUNSHINE (editor of DC/Marvel super-hero collections), more! same person, it would probablyhardcover be written by one person& and (84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 drawn by five different people. The sheer amount of work that it (Digital Edition) $4.99 https://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=98_132&products_id=1792 turned into was… it was something else!

CBC: And you partnered with Jerry on the art as your inker.

That’s putting together two high-quality guys who can write and draw. How was that process?

Dan: That was great. Jerry and I are friends, and we were #34 • Spring 2024 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR