Comic Book Creator #30 by TwoMorrows Publishing

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No. 30, Spring 2023

Pity the fool that doesn’t pick up

RetroFan #26! RETROFAN #26

The saga of Saturday morning’s Super Friends, Part One! Plus: A history of MR. T, TV’s AVENGERS (Steed and Mrs. Peel), Daktari’s CHERYL MILLER, Mexican movie monsters, John and Yoko’s nation of Nutopia, ELIZABETH SHEPHERD (the actress who almost played Emma Peel), and more! With ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, MARK VOGER, & MICHAEL EURY. NOW SHIPPING! And in RETROFAN #25, meet Mission: Impossible’s LYNDA DAY GEORGE in an exclusive interview! And celebrate RAMBO’s 50th birthday with his creator, novelist DAVID MORRELL! Plus: TV faves WKRP IN CINCINNATI and SPACE: 1999, Fleisher’s and Filmation’s SUPERMAN CARTOONS, commercial jingles, JERRY LEWIS and BOB HOPE comic books, and more fun, fab features! Featuring columns by ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, and MARK VOGER! Edited by MICHAEL EURY. NOW SHIPPING! (84-page magazines) $10.95 • (Digital Editions) $4.99

RETROFAN #20

RETROFAN #21

RETROFAN #22

RETROFAN #23

RETROFAN #24

MAD’s maddest artist, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, is profiled! Plus: TV’s Route 66 and an interview with star GEORGE MAHARIS, MOE HOWARD’s final years, singer B. J. THOMAS in one of his final interviews, LONE RANGER cartoons, G.I. JOE, and more! Featuring columns by ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, and MARK VOGER! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

Meet JULIE NEWMAR, the purr-fect Surf’s up as SIXTIES BEACH MOVIES make Catwoman! Plus: ASTRO BOY, TARZAN a RetroFan splash! Plus: He-Man and the Saturday morning cartoons, the true Masters of the Universe, ZORRO’s Saturday history of PEBBLES CEREAL, TV’s THE morning cartoon, TV’s THE WILD, WILD UNTOUCHABLES and SEARCH, the WEST, CARtoons and other drag-mags, MONKEEMOBILE, SOVIET EXPO ’77, and VALSPEAK, and more fun, fab features! more fun, fab features! Featuring columns Like, totally! Featuring columns by ANDY by ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, and SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, and MARK MARK VOGER! Edited by MICHAEL EURY. VOGER! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

Meet the stars behind the Black Lagoon: RICOU BROWNING, BEN CHAPMAN, JULIE ADAMS, and LORI NELSON! Plus SHADOW CHASERS, featuring show creator KENNETH JOHNSON. Also: THE BEATLES’ YELLOW SUBMARINE, FLASH GORDON cartoons, TV’s cult classic THE PRISONER and kid’s show ZOOM, COLORFORMS, M&Ms, and more fun, fab features! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

Interviews with Lost in Space’s ANGELA CARTWRIGHT and BILL MUMY, and Land of the Lost’s WESLEY EURE! Revisit Leave It to Beaver with JERRY MATHERS, TONY DOW, and KEN OSMOND! Plus: UNDERDOG, Rankin-Bass’ stop-motion classic THE LITTLE DRUMMER BOY, Christmas gifts you didn’t want, the CABBAGE PATCH KIDS fad, and more! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

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TwoMorrows. The Future of Pop History.

RETROFAN #16

RETROFAN #17

RETROFAN #18

RETROFAN #19

An exclusive interview with Logan’s Run star MICHAEL YORK, plus Logan’s Run novelist WILLIAM F. NOLAN and vehicle customizer DEAN JEFFRIES. Plus: the Marvel Super Heroes cartoons of 1966, H. R. Pufnstuf, Leave It to Beaver’s SUE “Miss Landers” RANDALL, WOLFMAN JACK, drive-in theaters, My Weekly Reader, DAVID MANDEL’s super collection of comic book art, and more!

Dark Shadows’ Angelique, LARA PARKER, Our BARBARA EDEN interview will keep sinks her fangs into an exclusive interview. you forever dreaming of Jeannie! Plus: The Invaders, the BILLIE JEAN KING/BOBBY Plus: Rankin-Bass’ Mad Monster Party, RIGGS tennis battle of the sexes, HANNAAurora Monster model kits, a chat with Aurora painter JAMES BAMA, George of BARBERA’s Saturday morning super-heroes the Jungle, The Haunting, Jawsmania, Drak of the Sixties, THE MONSTER TIMES fanzine, and more fun, fab features! Featuring Pack, TV dads’ jobs, and more fun, fab features! Featuring columns by FARINO, ERNEST FARINO, ANDY MANGELS, WILL MANGELS, MURRAY, SAAVEDRA, SHAW, MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW!, and MICHAEL EURY. and MICHAEL EURY.

Interview with Bond Girl and Hammer Films actress CAROLINE MUNRO! Plus: WACKY PACKAGES, COURAGEOUS CAT AND MINUTE MOUSE, FILMATION’S GHOSTBUSTERS vs. the REAL GHOSTBUSTERS, Bandai’s rare PRO WRESTLER ERASERS, behind the scenes of Sixties movies, WATERGATE at Fifty, Go-Go Dancing, a visit to the Red Skelton Museum, and more fun, fab features!

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Spring 2023 • The Michael Cho Issue • Number 30

T A

MICHAEL CHO Portrait by KEN MEYER, JR.

Ye Ed’s Rant: Who in the hell would care for a Gold Key/Dell/Western history…?!............ 2

About Our Cover

COMICS CHATTER Up Front: The Accidental Publisher. A look at Norman Goldfind, brave publisher of Will Eisner's first graphic novel, A Contract with God, and a whole lot more!.............. 3

Cover art by MICHAEL CHO

Once Upon a Long Ago: Who was Mayo Kaan, the man who wasn't Superman?............ 17 Ten Questions: CBC's own Fred Hembeck gets quizzed by Darrick Patrick!...................... 18 Comics in the Library: P. Craig Russell on his illustrating the classics!........................... 19

The Avengers TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Second City Comics Guy: The final segment of our three-part interview with mighty Mike Gold, chatting about his co-founding First Comics and glorious return to DC...... 20 Cooke's Column: CBC is now a 10-year-old mag… and Comic Book Artist turns 25!...... 33 Incoming: A single missive and then on to the rave Charlton Companion reviews!.......... 34 Hembeck’s Dateline: Atlas, our Good Man Fred goes over(Sea)board!........................... 37 Above: Michael Cho assembles a fantastic cover for us — with his pencils, inks, and colors — starring the classic Avengers line-up circa 1964, all posing in splendid Jack Kirby-eque fashion. Ye Ed and Mike started discussing his being cover-featured in CBC back in the ancient, pre-Covid times of 2019, when we met at my pal Cliff Galbraith's lamented East Coast ComiCon. It took, like, forever for the stars to align and finally schedule this magnificent Cho-tastic ish, and here's hoping you find his feature is as satisfying as your humble editor!

Don’t STEAL our Digital Editions! C’mon citizen, DO THE RIGHT THING! A Mom & Pop publisher like us needs every sale just to survive! DON’T DOWNLOAD OR READ ILLEGAL COPIES ONLINE! Buy affordable, legal downloads only at

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COMIC BOOK CREATOR is a proud joint production of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows

BACK MATTER Creators at the Con: Kendall Whitehouse remembers Asbury Park Comic Con............... 78 Coming Attractions: Artist Graham Nolan will tell us all about the Wages of Bane!....... 79 A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: Tom Ziuko goes deep with Kent Menace........ 80 Right: A detail of Michael Cho's Empyre #6 [Nov. 2020] variant cover staring the Fantastic Four and friends. EDITOR’S NOTE: Because of a typographical format change we were forced to implement, both the 1974 Jack Adler/DC Production piece and the feature on Ron Barrett and his short-lived comics tabloid, The Funny Papers, had to be postponed as we ran out of room! For a version of the latter, visit 13thdimension.com/ alternative-fridays-the-funny-papers-by-jon-b-cooke (and check out my other columns from 2013 there, as well!)

Comic Book Artist Vol. 1 & 2 are available as digital downloads from twomorrows.com Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly (more or less) by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Dr., Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. Box 601, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: jonbcooke@aol.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $53 US, $78 International, $19 Digital. All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2023 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Comic Book Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. ISSN 2330-2437. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

All characters TM & © Marvel Characters. Inc.

& DON’T SHARE THEM WITH FRIENDS OR POST THEM ONLINE. Help us keep producing great publications like this one!

THE MAIN EVENT Michael Cho: The Beauty of the World The wonderful Canadian comic book artist and illustrator shares with Ye Ed about his Korean heritage, robot-lovin' and Star Wars-obsessed youth, angsty teen years, emergence as fine art painter, friendship with Darwyn Cooke, and his juggling a busy career and family as a young father to now devote more energy to storytelling. And, of course, Mike discusses his first graphic novel, the acclaimed Shoplifter, and both his cutting-edge covers and his classic "old school" covers for Marvel and DC, and hints at a comics magnum opus to come!.............................................................. 40

This issue is dedicated to the memories of ALINE KOMINSKY-CRUMB, GEORGE BOOTH, DAN BULANADI, KEVIN O’NEILL, KIM JUNG GI, ™

Re: Gold Key & Me JON B. COOKE

Editor & Designer

JOHN MORROW

Publisher & Consulting Editor

GREG BIGA

Associate Editor

MICHAEL CHO

Cover Artist & Colorist

RICHARD J. ARNDT TOM ZIUKO STEVEN THOMPSON MICHAEL AUSHENKER Contributing Editors

J.D. KING

CBC Cartoonist Emeritus

TOM ZIUKO

CBC Colorist Supreme

RONN SUTTON

CBC Illustrator

KEN MEYER, JR.

CBC Color Portrait Artist

ROB SMENTEK CBC Proofreader

GREG PRESTON

CBC Contributing Photographer

KENDALL WHITEHOUSE RICHARD ARNDT FRED HEMBECK DARRICK PATRICK STEVEN THOMPSON TOM ZIUKO CBC Columnists

To contact CBC, please email jonbcooke@aol.com or snail-mail Comic Book Creator c /o Jon B. Cooke, P.O. Box 601 West Kingston, RI 02892 2

Sometimes this stuff gets ridiculous. I’m talking about the tangents that occur when going in deep while researching a given subject. It’s less a rabbit hole than a huge abyss where one falls to land not at the bottom of a pit but rather onto completely different terrains, each as fascinating and tantalizingly new as the last one. For instance, looking into editor Bill Harris’s brief stay at King Comics while studying the transition of the Hanna Barbera properties over to Charlton Comics for my latest book, led me to ponder his previous tenure at Gold Key Comics. So then I scratch my head and wonder, “Hey, what is the real story behind Dell Comics, Gold Key, and Western Publishing, anyway? And what’s up with Whitman? And why were there east and west coast editorial offices…?” I’m sure one call to Mark Evanier can clear things up in a jiff — and thanks to Mark, by the way, for declaring that my Charlton Companion is “the best book on comic book history I’ve seen in a long time”! — but I’m in the thick of it all and I uncover Golden Legacy, Leonard S. Marcus’s brilliant history of Little Golden Books, which also relates the whole Western Printing and Lithography saga, and then I snag a 1957 volume collecting a year’s worth of their in-house employee newsletter, The Westerner, and a cursory glance through it teaches me that their “Comicarnival” sales program of 1956 sold 100 million Dell Comics and that their new Poughkeepsie (“Pokip” to us in the know!) web press can, in theory, print 198,000 comic book covers in a single hour! I mean, what totally amazing, exciting factoids to learn, right? Then I snap out of it and know better. I mean, really! If I wanted to dive in and write a history of Dell/Western/Gold Key, how many people would actually be compelled to buy it? So I return to my senses and find a more practical abyss to jump into and again immerse myself in Forging Metal, Jean Depelley and my history of Heavy Metal, Métal Hurlant, Epic Illustrated, and all their imitators (forgeries?) from the latter ’70s and early to mid-’80s. And there’s the Warren Publications narrative history I’m ramping up, The Book of Warren, plus I’m very excited about my exhaustively detailed look at the life and achievements of the late, great Byron Preiss, the innovative packager and publisher, coming in CBC #32, and a "Best of" CBA coming to celebrate 25 years of my first mag!

My lead piece in this ish is an off-shoot of the Preiss CBC spotlight coming after the next issue and it’s an example of the organic nature of producing this mag in how one subject leads to another and then another… In the meantime, I’m conducting an immersive and satisfying mail interview with Steve Willis, as much a mini-comics guru as any of his fellow “Evergreen Mafia” members, a choice crowd of alternative comix pioneers that included Lynda Barry, Matt Groening, and Charles Burns. I think, when it comes to comics — to borrow Steve’s phrase — “We’re all in the same ball of wax,” and the cartoonist sensibility that emerged from Washington state’s Evergreen State College and grew to become the hoppin’ Seattle scene of the 1980s–’90s is as crucial to the form’s development as any Marvel Age or DC Universe, if not more so. (I’ll be honest and admit that I wish my immediate follow-up to The Book of Weirdo was a history of the cartoonists and comics of the Pacific Northwest, culminating in the era of grunge. Well, maybe someday.) Michael Cho In the meantime, the lovely Mrs. by Ronn Sutton Cooke has retired from her state job of the last 30 years (during which she subsidized her husband’s comics history obsession year in and year out, bless her heart), and it’s time for me to take up some slack until yours truly can join Medicare, so I’ll again be a Layout Guru for John Morrow and cheerfully taking on other gigs he offers now and then. But I won’t be slacking regarding CBC. I will be honest and confess I kinda thought I’d run out of steam with this magazine by #25, but have been steadily regaining the old pep and contemplating taking on subjects like the old Comic Book Artist mag, though more in the form of narratives — you’ll see an example in our Preiss ish. Before concluding, I should tell you kind folks that The Golden Age, for which we had hoped to workshop the script of my brother and my four-act play, was not awarded the state art grant we applied for, so we’re looking for other methods to get the production on stage. I first conceived of the story a quarter-century ago, so we're patient! Finally, a solemn, sad farewell to Aline Kominsky-Crumb, who very suddenly passed away late last year. “The Bunch” was my favorite Weirdo editor and I’m glad to have celebrated Aline in her presence in 2019. Peace to Robert and Sophie.

cbc contributors

Ben Asen Steve Bissette Alan Brennert Aaron Caplan

Michael Cho Greg Goldstein Jackie Estrada Karl Heitmueller Mark Evanier Alex Jay Norman Goldfind Denis Kitchen

Paul Levitz Susan Liberator Manny Maris Justin Marriott

— Y e Crusading Editor jonbcooke@aol.com

Will Murray Bill Pearson Richard Pini Bud Plant

Jenny Robb Joe Staton William Stout Roy Thomas

#30 • Spring 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

CBC Convention Photographer

The plunge into other worlds for this comics history researcher

up front

CARLOS PACHECO, and LOU MOUGIN

The Accidental Publisher Bookman Norman Goldfind on the glorious and all-too brief life of his Baronet Books ground-breaker, A Contract with God and Other Tenement Stories [1978], indisputably the book first to popularize [In researching a future issue devoted to late comics visionary the term and launch a literary trend in comics and book publishing that continues to this day. and entrepreneur Byron Preiss, I went in search of Baronet And while it’s been established that the late bookBooks founder Norman Goldfind, who published a number of seller/publisher/historian, Richard Kyle, was first to Preiss productions with his small but feisty imprint, including coin the phrase “graphic novel” in a 1964 CAPA-althe graphic novel precursors, The Illustrated Harlan Ellison and the Alfred Bester’s The Stars My Destination adaptation, pha mailing, Will Eisner [1917–2005] would share an anecdote about his spontaneous linking the among others. And, lo, I discovered the maverick publisher living in California, now 86 and retired, and, after two interview two words on the fly around 1977 or ’78. The man who had been crowned “The Father of the Graphic sessions intended to augment the Preiss ish, I found Norman’s achievements — particularly as Baronet publisher and his stint at Novel” told my brother and me about his search for Pyramid Books — so fascinating that I decided to give the native a publisher to get his A Contract with God into print: “I said [to a prospective publisher], ‘Look, I’ve got New Yorker his own feature here! — Ye Ed.] something very interesting for you.’ Well, he’s a very busy guy and very quick, he said, ‘Alright, tell me quickly. “WHAT WAS THE FIRST GRAPHIC NOVEL?” What is it?’ Well, I looked down at it and, in a small voice The debate over the answer to that question, which first [Will said to himself]… ‘Stupid, don’t tell him it’s a comic. emerged in the early 1980s (or thereabouts), will likely rage Think of something else quick.’ So I said, ‘It’s a graphic novel.’ on so long as people have passionate opinions on the subject. ‘Oh,’ he says, ‘That’s very interesting. I never heard of that Some point to Arnold Drake and Matt Baker’s It Rhymes with before. Bring it up here.’ I brought it up there, he looked at it, Lust, from 1950, while others look ahead a quarter-century to looked at me, and says, ‘You know, this is still a comic. We suggest George Metzger’s Beyond Time and Again [1976]. Or you could jump forward a decade, to 1986, when Jack Katz fin- don’t publish this kind of stuff. Go find a smaller publisher.’ ished the last chapter of his epic, First Kingdom. But while some And I did.”* The major publisher who told Eisner to look elsewhere will argue Harvey Kurtzman’s Jungle Book [1959] or Blackmark was Oscar Dystel of Bantam Books, who had already tried and [1971] by Gil Kane should be in the running, almost everyone failed with the format, with the aforementioned Blackmark by agrees on the seismic impact made by William Erwin Eisner’s Gil Kane. And the outfit Eisner next approached was Baronet Books, which might have been small, but it was one fortuitously run by a brave publisher, one willing to give this new form of comics a chance. “I was lucky enough to have been in the room when Will delivered A Contract with God to Norman Goldfind,” legendary book packager Byron Preiss shared at Eisner’s memorial service in 2005. “Norman was a publisher of great courage at a time when comics were not present in the bookstore. He was willing to let the medium, particularly through Will, have a shot at coming into the book world. And, of course, Contract went on to be a great international success. That made Will feel that the medium had a great reach. And, of course, he continued on that vision for the rest of his life.” Yet, even as the adventurous, risk-taking publisher of a book widely considered first of its kind, Norman Goldfind is hardly a recognized name in comics history. And, truth be told, while he had virtually zero presence in the mainstream comics scene, in the perhaps more nebulous realm of 1970s’ comic book hybrids and proto-graphic novels, he made some formidable contributions, achievements well worth studying in detail. (And, as we’ll discover looking into his fascinating life’s work, the gent also helped create one of the greatest, most profitable success stories in ’70s book publishing, to boot!)

Photo courtesy of Norman Goldfind. A Contract with God and Other Tenement Stories TM & © Will Eisner Studios, Inc.

by JON B. COOKE

This page: Brooklyn-born Norman Goldfind, who ascended from an entry level position tabulating book orders for the sales manager to eventually become publisher and executive vice president of Pyramid Books, later founded Baronet, the imprint that published the first American graphic novel of consequence, Will Eisner’s A Contract with God and Other Tenement Stories, in 1978. Above is the maverick publisher in 1982 and inset left is the graphic novel’s cover. Below is Baronet Publishing's logo.

* As documented by Andrew J. Kunka, in his article, “A Contract with God, The First Kingdom, and the ‘Graphic Novel’: The Will Eisner/Jack Katz Letters” [Inks: The Journal of the Comics Studies Society V. 1 #1, Spr. 2017], Eisner had been repeatedly exposed to cartoonist Katz’s use of “graphic novel” in correspondence from as far back as the summer of 1974. COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2023 • #30

This page: Top is a 1957 ad showcasing Pyramid Books, which had a bestseller in their edition of Death Be Not Proud. Above is Pyramid co-founder Matt Huttner in 1962. Inset right is Pyramid’s successful detective novel series, Honey West. Below, Norman Goldfind in 1968.

freelance writer dedicated to Jewish causes, Huttner frequently scribed magazine features for Esquire, Coronet, Pageant, and American Mercury (where he had his own “Police Gazette” column) before teaming with former New York Times advertising manager Plaine. Huttner was also longtime treasurer of the Overseas Press Club and, later, the Edward R. Murrow Foundation treasurer. Huttner would prove to become an important guiding influence on Goldfind’s career, which advanced incrementally, after the young man entered the field tallying book orders under a sales manager’s direction. “One thing that I did very well,” Goldfind explained, “was to listen and, slowly, through these conversations, I began to learn more and more about the publishing business, mainly in the sales side of it.” Soon he advanced to administrative assistant and kept a sustained focus on the retail aspect of the book trade. “After a couple of years, as the company grew, they decided to expand the sales department,” he said, “and I was made a regional sales manager for the Midwest, all the way down to Texas.” The year was 1964. Soon enough, he added, “They expanded my territory, which now included the West Coast and I made a lot of contacts, and though I never considered myself a salesperson — it never occurred to me it would be what I wound up doing — because I was kind of shy and oftentimes a little stage-frightened, but I worked my way through it and became fairly good in what I was doing and very successful.” By 1966, Goldfind ascended the corporate ladder to become national sales director and, importantly, was invited to attend the weekly Pyramid editorial meetings alongside Huttner. “And I had a chance to sit in and begin to learn something about the editorial process — how they acquired books, what they were looking for, comments they made, good or bad,” he said. “So it was part of the job I really enjoyed. I began more and more to develop some confidence in my judgment about various books, so I participated in the conversation and offered my suggestions. One of the reasons they had me there was because I was the sales director and they wanted to know what books were doing well, where were they selling, and stuff like that.” THE APPEAL OF PYRAMID For pulp, thriller, and science fiction fans, Pyramid was a dynamic imprint with an enticing selection of titles, including respective anthologies edited by Donald R. Bensen and L. Sprague de Camp, reprints of Sax Rohmer’s Fu Manchu novels,

HUTTNER AT THE HELM Goldfind had been hired by Plaine, elder of the partnership. “But Huttner was really the backbone of the publishing side of the business,” Goldfind said, and, upon examination, Huttner [b. 1915] certainly seems the more interesting of the two. Before the war, Huttner was a onetime steel mill employee who later took up radio and public relations work, and he entered the U.S. Army Air Force as a private and, after serving as legendary General Jimmy Doolittle’s assistant director of intelligence for the duration, he departed military life as captain. A prolific 4

#30 • Spring 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

All books TM & © their respective copyright owners. Honey West TM & © Lynda Y. de la Vina.

Top: Radio host, journalist, activist, oral historian Studs Terkel in his “lived-in” office, circa 1970s. Above: The “other” Mike Gold — and fellow radical! — Jewish American, communist writer, and literary critic born Itzok Isaac Granich [1894–1967], who Terkel met back in the day.

HIS “ACCIDENTAL” CAREER Born in Brooklyn, New York, on Sept. 18, 1936, to parents Joseph and Ida Goldfind, Norman was their second son — brother Martin was four years older — and, as a boy, Goldfind wasn’t attracted to comic books. “They weren’t something I was tremendously interested in,” he said. And, in fact, for someone who subsequently made a sizable and note-worthy impact in the realm of the printed word, he freely admitted he wasn’t much of a reader. “I was one of the most unlikely people to have gotten into the publishing business (which was an accident, so to speak), and to become publisher of several companies,” he confessed. Goldfind’s “accidental break” came in 1958, after leaving college, where he had majored in economics, when he was facing job prospects that were, in his words, “Very, very slight.” With a chuckle, he then added, “As a matter of fact, I was engaged at the time, and I hadn’t completed college and I had no experience, but I needed to get a job, because the wedding date was set.” Frustrated with the lack of response after he answered some want ads, a friend suggested Goldfind place a “situation wanted” classified in the Sunday New York Times. He rejected the initial job proposal he received because it offered a salary of $70 a week. “I said, ‘I’m sorry, I can’t live on that; I need at least $75.’ But they refused to give me the extra five. So I left there and then I got a response from a company called Pyramid Books.” And yet, even though the paperback book publisher offered him the exact same weekly pay as the first respondent, “This time I was determined to get a job, because I was getting desperate, and I accepted. I was hired as an order processing clerk, and that’s how my career in publishing began.” Founded in 1949, Pyramid was a subsidiary of Almat Publishing Corporation, a moniker derived from the given names of owners Alfred R. Plaine [1897–1981] and Matthew Huttner, and it mainly produced paperback books — at first, mostly of the risqué, if not outright sleazy, variety — and a handful of magazines. Goldfind explained, “Pyramid published in any number of categories, everything from mystery and romance, science fiction, fantasy. They did some non-fiction books — some health books…” Another category was inspirational books.

The Zap Gun TM & © the estate of Philip K. Dick. The Second Lensmen TM & © the estate of E.E. Smith. Fu Manchu TM & © Authors League of America.

the Lensman series by E.E. “Doc” Smith, novelizations of Irwin Allen SF-themed TV shows (Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Time Tunnel, etc.), the private eye Honey West series, and innumerable books by Theodore Sturgeon, Robert Heinlein, Harry Harrison, Shirley Jackson, and many others. Masterful anthologist Bensen was, in fact, Pyramid’s highly-respected speculative fiction editor from 1957–67, and he proved a vital component to the imprint’s success. In his book, The Great American Paperback [2000], Richard Lupoff described the reason behind the company’s prosperity: “Pyramid succeeded and grew into a significant paperback house, seldom challenging the ‘majors’ for high-priced books by top authors, but developing a strong, versatile line of titles under a series of talented editors, most notably the dedicated, creative journeyman, Donald R. Bensen.” (In 1959, Pyramid had a market share of 2.1%.) “After a number of years,” Goldfind said, “Bensen left the company, so they hired a new editorial director and Matt Huttner eventually decided that he was not happy with the gentleman… and he called me into his office, looks at me, and says, ‘Norman, I want you to be editor-in-chief of the company.’” In short order, under the publisher’s guidance, Goldfind stepped up in 1972 to become Pyramid associate publisher and he later expressed gratitude regarding his employer’s unwavering support: “I started to work more and more with Matt Huttner,” he said, “and, more and more, he became my mentor and he had something about him… you use the word, ‘charismatic’… he was a big guy, must have been about six-two or six-three, broad shoulders, walked into a room and took up all the oxygen, and he was the one I wanted to be like, and he was my role model, and he became more and more confident in my ability to do the job and to make editorial decisions without having to run it by him for every book.” In retrospect, Goldfind surmised, “I think the reason my first boss, Matthew Huttner, appointed me to be editor-in-chief is because I had been a salesman, sales manager, and vice-president of sales and marketing… as a matter of fact, I can honestly tell you I wasn’t even a big reader… but I think he had a sense that I was a common reader and had a sense of what the general market would respond to. I mean, that’s my theory.” (Another interesting creative mind in the mix during the mid-’70s was Welsh-born Mark Howell [1945–2021], whose short-lived tenure as Pyramid senior editor was but a brief stop in a captivating career, a time when, he told Paperback Fanatic, Howell COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2023 • #30

was involved in “original paperbacks such as I Was a House Dick (about a hotel detective) plus seminal books on the ’60s counter-culture.”) Behind the scenes at Pyramid, the resilient company — by the early ’70s rechristened Pyramid Communications — could not escape the conglomeration frenzy of that era, as Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, a leading textbook publisher on the prowl to build its own media empire, covetously eyed the paperback house’s $9 million in annual sales and, in 1974, HBJ absorbed Plaine and Huttner’s company in yet another corporate merger of that decade. (Pyramid was so thoroughly devoured that, by 1977, the new owners dropped the brand completely and renamed the imprint Jove Books after HBJ partner William Jovanovich.) BIRTH OF THE BASTARD Importantly though, after the HBJ merger, Matt Huttner was kept on as Pyramid head and he was there long enough to witness his protégé become catalyst for the line’s greatest success in its almost quarter-century of paperback book publishing. Goldfind described a pivotal meeting in late 1973: “Remember 1976? It was the 200th anniversary — the bicentennial — of the country…? Well, every publisher and other companies of different kinds were looking to take advantage of the bicentennial celebration. So, one day, I had a meeting with a gentleman who was a book packager [Lyle Engel] — not an agent, but a book packager — and I had with me my senior editor, Ann Kearns, to have lunch with him and discuss what we might do to take advantage of the bicentennial. We talked for awhile about things that didn’t seem to be really big things — a bicentennial cook book or something like that — and then something hit me.” What struck the associate publisher would ultimately result in a true publishing phenomenon that generated unexpected treasure. Referring to a British sensation recently imported to U.S. public television, Goldfind explained, “I don’t know if you remember a TV series that came over from England called Upstairs Downstairs…? Well, I loved that show and it occurred to me, and I said, ‘You know, I can use that show as a platform…’ And what came to mind was why not create a series of books of a fictional family and, through the eyes of this family, picture the entire 200 years of American history, told through this family’s growth and experience? And Lyle very much liked the idea and he said that one of the authors he works for would be a perfect fit because he had not only written science fiction books (which had nothing to do with this project), but he also wrote historical novels, and his name was John Jakes.”

This page: Above is a very young Donald R. Bensen, who would become a renowned editor of Pyramid’s science fiction line. Inset left is Philip K. Dick’s comedic SF novel, which includes a mad comic book artist character. Below is Edward Elmer Smith — E.E. “Doc” Smith at Solacon, 1958, and his Second Stage Lensmen paperback, pub’ed by Pyramid. Bottom are 12 of Sax Rohmer’s Fu Manchu novels, a series published by Pyramid from 1961–76.

second city comics guy

Mike Gold Is On First

Multifaceted Mike shares about starting First Comics, returning to DC, and other stuff Interview conducted by JON B. COOKE

Above: Back in CBC #10 [Fall 2015], Ye Ed wrote as definitive a history ever written on Stuart Gordon and Lenny Kleinfeld's three-part play, Warp. Below: What started First Comics was Mike Gold's dry run producing the Organic Theater one-shot,Weird Organic Tales, art by Joe Staton and Bruce Patterson, and words by Paul Kupperberg and Gold. Inset right: Panel from same.

Martha Thomases. Mark Hempel did one of our early covers. So that was a fun experience. The publisher… I don’t know why I love cockroach capitalists publishers so much. They eventually run out of money. But publishing is a stupid business anyway — always has been — and the only person making money at it was Bennett Cerf. But Video Action was great fun. It was like a two-year stretch for me as editor. Rick Oliver was my assistant editor. We had a good time. But, in the midst of all that, in 1980, I got involved with my friend, Stuart Gordon, who at the time was a theater director who went on to make great horror movies. He was the guy who co-wrote and directed Warp, as well as many other plays. And Stuart asked me to put together a comic book [Weird Organic Tales] for him as a fundraiser for his theatre group, and I did that. I got Joe Staton, Bruce Patterson, and Paul Kupperberg to be a part of that — they wrote and drew the thing — and we printed something in the neighborhood of 300,000 copies. It was an insert in The Chicago Reader, a very high circulation cultural weekly… boy, this is dusting off memories!… We had a great time but, for me, the idea was this was going to be a dry run for doing our own publishing. And that’s exactly what happened and that really was the birth of First Comics, in 1980. Stuart had just started up a revival of Warp, and very few people had seen the second episode of the play outside of Chicago. (At that time, only Washington had performed all three episodes.) The first episode had played on Broadway and it bombed, because they just weren’t ready for a three-part science fiction play. So nobody in the New York community saw the second or third parts, and the second was by far the best of the episodes… I mean, it was really enjoyable and the most

#30 • Spring 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

[Welp, the third time is the charm! Chicago boy Mike Gold is the first CBC interviewee to have a three-parter, but its not to indulge the gent; it’s just that he has so many different facets to his career! In part one, we discussed Mike’s boyhood growing up in the Windy City, working as press agent for the Chicago Seven defendants (for whom he helped produce Conspiracy Capers, an underground comic book), and his organizing and heading the National Runaway Switchboard. Our second segment looked at his first stint at DC Comics which culminated in the notorious “DC Implosion” of 1978 and, last we left him, Mike had returned to his beloved city. — Ye Ed.] Comic Book Creator: Mike, is this longest interview you’ve ever given? Mike Gold: I remember, like 1,000 years ago, I did an interview with Peter Sanderson and that seemed to last for days. CBC: Okay, Peter wins. I think we’re up to 1980. [chuckles] Mike: Forty-three years ago. CBC: So we’re at 1980, after the “DC Implosion.” So, where did you go? Mike: Home. I went back to Chicago. I was planning on leaving DC in August 1978, anyway. I took the job for two years. People back in Chicago were on my case to come back and the Implosion made it a lot easier. But, even if the Implosion hadn’t happened, I probably would have gotten back anyway, almost definitely. So, almost two years to the day, I went back to Chicago and was involved in several different projects and I was doing a lot of writing. I was asked to set up a home video magazine called Video Action, which was pretty cool at the time, because I was able to hire, as freelancers, a lot of my comics friends, and give them a chance to do a lot of writing about something that wasn’t directly comics-related. For instance, Steve Mitchell did a lot of writing for me and that’s where I met

co-writer of Warp [under the pen-name Bury St. Edmund]. So Rick went to New York and, after he talked with Paul at DC, he called me and said it went exactly as I had said it would go. I knew what would happen partially because I had worked there, I knew all the players, and I knew how they would respond, and it’s also because I had a lot of friends of DC — I had worked there for a few years — and they pretty much told me what was happening. So Rick was impressed that I knew all that and he was astonished that I’d hit nine out of ten points on my list. He just couldn’t believe it. I said, “When do you meet with Jim?” He said, “In a couple of hours, but all Jim said at Comic-Con was that he would beat DC’s offer. But DC didn’t offer much of a deal to beat.” So I said, “Go and listen to Jim, because you have a fiduciary responsibility. And, when you come back, we’ll sit down, talk, and we’ll make some decisions.” Rick flies back after these meetings and he was very frustrated. But not because they were bad deals, but because exciting. So we did a special performance of the second part for they just weren’t professional. They didn’t respect the property. the guests at Chicago Comic-Con. Now, the purpose behind that was, essentially was to get DC and Marvel interested in picking It was your typical comic book deal for 1980, which was: “Here’s a small check, we own everything.” And that’s not what up the rights to do the comic-book version. anybody was really interested in over on the Warp side of the I was working not with Stuart so much on that, although deal. So Rick comes back, he meets me at Video Action and clearly he was part of it, but with Rick Obadiah, who was the we commandeer an office, producer… you can see this is all coming together now… And and I spend the next two or I told Rick, “This is what’s going to happen: Paul Levitz [of DC Comics] is going to say, ‘We should talk after the play,’ and then three hours explaining exactly [Marvel’s] Jim Shooter is going to come up to you and say, ‘We how you set up a comic book publishing company, how the should talk.’ But Jim will suggest that you go and talk to Paul, direct market works, and how and then come back to him and Marvel would just offer more to put together a budget. And than whatever DC was offering.” you can’t really just produce Rick was vaguely impressed by my prediction. And we had one comic book. You need to maybe 50 or 60 writers and artists at the Chicago Comic-Con develop an engine to produce that year who showed up to see the play. And what happened with Paul and with Jim went exactly as I predicted. And, as Rick a comic book, and you can use that same engine for the same was preparing to go out to New York to talk with both publishmoney to produce several. And ers, I had given him a ten-point list of things to watch out for we pretty much decided to go when negotiating. Rick looks at this list and says, “These are ridiculous. These are professional people in professional organi- that route. That was the birth zation.” And I said, “Yes, but the comic book industry itself is not of First Comics right there. Rick continued talking what you think of as fiducially professional.” He says, “No, this can’t be. These people have been in business for decades. They with Jim and Paul because he had a responsibility to can’t operate like that.” And I said, “Well, okay. Have fun.” do so, but it really didn’t go Then I told Rick right before he left, “We can do this anywhere in areas that made ourselves.” He said, “No, we should leave it to the pros.” I said sense on the business level. okay but explained to him how we can we could set up our Particularly when it came to own publishing operation. And he was interested but, you know, that really wasn’t what he was in it for. He had a fiduciary ownership and control of the property, which was a preexistresponsibility to Stuart and to Lenny Kleinfeld, who was the COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2023 • #30

Above: Mike Gold shed his counter-culture look in the go-go ’80s, as seen in this pic from Fandom's Forum #8 [Sept. 1982]. Inset left: In the late ’70s, Neal Adams returned to draw items for a Warp revival, including this program cover. Below: In the early ’80s, Gold gathered some comics compatriots to produce Video Action magazine, a short-lived but still highly-regarded effort.

incoming

Joe Frank Speaks Frankly

The postal service happened to bring us a letter on The Charlton Companion, so here it is! [I’ve decided I’m simply not going to bitch and moan about not receiving letters of comment anymore — it gets tedious — and will use space to just yak about what yours truly has been up to in the comics sphere as of late and — for your edification as much as to keep me reminded — of upcoming projects that should find their way into these pages. Or not. Of course, any LOCs receive will be considered for print, even if it’s about one of my books (I’m looking at you, Joe Frank!), so if the spirit moves you, fire away! — Ye Ed.]

Joe Frank Now I understand why The Charlton Companion took so long! It was meticulous even by your standards. Really enjoyed it as it

not only reinforced what little I knew but, also, added tangents and much new information to the mix. It also clarified some aspects for me. Foremost, they wanted comic books on the press. They weren’t willing to pay much, but the trade-off there was they weren’t looking to micromanage. So, for those motivated to do a good job, there was little to no interference. It may’ve been more lack of time editorially than a policy of creative freedom, but it worked out the same. Sounds like for some, such as Steve Ditko, it was an operating policy that had its perks. He could tell stories his way. The downside, especially in later years, is the comics line was frequently cut back, temporarily suspended, or cancelled. Hard to attract and retain talent under those conditions. Likewise, it’s difficult to tempt readers with the material if they have a feeling the line isn’t long for the world. That, combined with dubious distribution, made it challenging to follow any given title. It also reinforces that it’s the talent producing the books that’s important, not who publishes them. Ditko at Marvel, DC, or Charlton is still Ditko. While I wasn’t a fan of Captain Atom, because of outside inking, I loved his Blue Beetle and The Question. I’d likely have followed them had I seen them on the racks. But the fact is, I didn’t. Yet, years later, I loved them as back issues. In fact, BB #5 and Mysterious Suspense #1 are two of my favorites. So much content for twelve cents! If the distribution wasn’t all it could be — dysfunctional or compromised — it made it impossible for the books to gain an audience, sell, and succeed. A shame when something of quality and interest was being offered, however briefly. You also focused on Charlton using something other than money to attract interest: seeking fan submissions as far as writing (mid-’60s) and, later, artwork (early ’80s). It was a way to get material published and a foot in the door of the comics industry. Making a name at Charlton, establishing a reputation, made it easier to eventually get work elsewhere. If they didn’t offer high page rates, they did offer assignments and a chance to improve one’s abilities. No one was forced to work there, so those who did, accepted the terms as they were. One thing I really enjoyed was you reminding us of all the greats who were involved with the company

[Thanks, Joe! As always, much appreciate your thoughtful and welcome missives (even when I admit they are actually delivered by email and not from my P.O. Box courtesy of the U.S. Postal Service, despite my awfully untrue subhead above!). Anyhoo, I mostly agree with your assessment and thanks for being understanding about my having to focus on other projects while still doing CBC. This is actually my tenth year doing the magazine and, by my calculation, 30 issues in ten years does not a quarterly make, so I’m grateful for readers' understanding that I do make an effort to make this a quality magazine, which can take more time than planned. Thanks to all for being loyal. Now, onto some email and reviews I’ve received for The Charlton Companion! I am never — ever! — too shy to boast! — Y.E.] #30 • Spring 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

The Charlton Companion TM & © Jon B. Cooke and TwoMorrows. Aline Kominsky-Crumb portrait, Maverix and Lunatix: Icons of Underground Comix © Drew Friedman. Used with permission.

Above: Shameless Ye Ed is devoting the entire "Incoming" letters col to the response to his latest opus, The Charlton Companion (seen here). Below: The great Aline Kominsky-Crumb, immortalized here by Drew Friedman in his latest book, Maverix and Lunatix: Icons of Underground Comix, published by Fantagraphics.

at one point or another: Siegel and Shuster (separately); Harvey Kurtzman and the Humbug crew; Simon and Kirby, Neal Adams and Continuity, etc. Not long stays but of mutual consent and advantage, for a brief period. I also enjoyed the description of the plant and the details of the storm, flood, and evacuation. I’d hate, of necessity, to leave a building by helicopter. The importing and employment of workers from Italy for low wage positions, represented as charitable, may’ve been unintentionally so. That is, once immigrants learned the language and marketable skills, they, too, could leave and make their fortunes elsewhere. It sounds like there was a superficial effort to provide extras — recreational facilities and whatnot — but a better wage would have been preferable. Sadly, as the years went by and business declined, those who were counting on a pension were out of luck. If offered in good faith, reality made it a broken promise. You reminded me that Charlton was also a magazine publisher. They still had the presses running even if it wasn’t necessarily comic books. So, unrelated magazines could help the bottom line during slow to disappointing comics sales. I also enjoyed all the memories and photos of Dick Giordano. He strove to be creative in the ’60s, both at Charlton and DC. He was, but given little support. In fact, at DC, for any good ideas and innovative titles, sounds like he had much contention — enough to leave — with Carmine Infantino. The saddest part, for me, was at the end of the comics run, in the mid-’80s. Steve Ditko returned and was working on new stories and promotion — a considered rebuilding effort. Yet, before he could be given a fair chance to turn things around, the plug was pulled — for the final time — on the comics line. So, potential but no publishing commitment. If much of Charlton’s output wasn’t wonderful, that could apply to any publisher. Better to simply focus on the gems or early opportunities to learn one’s craft. Anyway, a wonderful tour of the company and the people behind it, Jon. Granted, you were more curious about the music magazines than I was, but I’m sure it was in the interests of more complete coverage. Now, with the book filed on my shelf, hope you can get back to CBC and, once again. get some momentum going there. Missed seeing it while you were preoccupied in Derby.

From Paul Levitz: “What a lovely job on the Charlton book… so much deep digging!” From Mark Evanier: “You did an amazing job, Jon. I would not have believed it was possible to dig up this much information on that company.” Mark also shared a smashing review on his News from ME blog site, excerpted here: “The story of the company itself is fascinating and historian Jon B. Cooke has recently given us an exhaustive and amazing book that recounts that history. To put it simply: I am stunned by how much he was able to uncover, especially this long after Charlton is out of business and most of the folks involved in it have passed. I would not have thought it was humanly possible to amass as much information as he gives in The Charlton Companion… He covers how the company was founded behind bars in a jail cell… all its business dealings of questionable legality… how it grew out of the sheet music business… how it survived a major flood… how it made Larry Flynt rich and powerful… how it managed to do comics cheaper than just about anyone… If you have the slightest interest in the subject matter, you need a copy of this one… the best book on comic book history I’ve seen in a long time.” From Bud Plant, who gave the book the coveted “Our Highest Recommendation” in his catalog (thanks, Bud!): “Fans of comics history; of the often-strange Charlton; of Steve Ditko; and the 1960s and 1970s comics explosion of creativity — this is your book. I’ve rarely read a better history! From the beginning (publisher Santangelo’s illegal song lyrics and jail sentence and meeting his future partners behind bars!), this offers every minute detail of the company, the artists, the writers, the characters of this independent and feisty company who many of us remember very fondly — I do… Jon gives each project 110% and then some. I can’t recommend this book and his other projects enough, they are many of my favorite books about comics and comics creators.” From Karl Heitmueller: “I’m just finishing The Charlton Companion and am… astounded. What an amazing piece of work. This could well be the most comprehensive and engaging bit of comic book history I’ve ever read. Thank you so much for such an amazing book.”

This page: In an error as cringe-worthy as calling Len Wein’s Swamp Thing the “nadir” of his career (yikes!), I made a boneheaded mistake in The Charlton Companion. On page 76 (detail above), I labeled the “before” and “after” images as occurring in a single day. My excitement in realizing that the white box-like thing in the pics was the drive-in movie screen got the better of me and I neglected to pull out the original Xerox of the Newsdealer page from Oct. 1955 (below) that Bob Beerbohm had sent back in 2000, where the caption clearly states the “after” shot was taken four days later. My apologies. The realization that I should’ve checked came after the book was printed. Mea culpa, Charlton Companion readers. Now I can get a good night’s sleep!

Above: As mentioned in Ye Ed’s reply to buddy Michael H. Price’s kind missive herein, it’s MHP and Dave Ferman’s enormously fun Lone Star Larceny trade paperback, over 300 pages of comics devoted to Texas criminals of the last three-and-a-half centuries! Below: Ye Ed and Mrs. Ye Ed were delighted to be invited to pal Denis Kitchen’s birthday soireé this summer! Not only did Y.E. get quality time with one of his favorite cartoonists, Peter Poplaski, and chat with old chum (and equally admired artist) Rick Veitch, but brother Andy and I hand-delivered our Will Eisner documentary DVD to attendee Neil Gaiman (who appears in the furshlugginer movie!), plus all of us got this limited-edition Pete Pop button!

From Richard Pini: “Just got my copy of The Charlton Companion and what a monumental job of research! (Not to mention an incredible treasure trove of information, and trivia, and so much more, about a company that was only slightly on my radar when I was a much younger fanboy.) “This tome is becoming special to me for other reasons as well. One, I grew up in Orange, Connecticut, the town next door to Derby, and many were the times I’d ride my bike from home to or through Derby — never knowing what was happening almost in my own backyard (with regard to comics). But I still feel a kind of affection for the fact that Charlton was ‘right there.’ (As opposed to Marvel or DC, which existed ‘far, far away’ as far as I was concerned.) COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2023 • #30

An Interview with Comic Book Artist/Illustrator Michael Cho Assume nothing. If I’ve learned anything from the following two-session conversation — conducted via Skype in Sept. 2022 — with Toronto-based comic book artist Michael Cho, it is to leave my preconceptions at the door before pontificating to the man about what I presumed were his artistic influences. As you’ll see, I quickly learned better and, in the process, discovered the diverse, widespread, and eclectic forces that helped to shape Cho’s artistic sensibilities. Relatively new to comics — the Korean-born artist had a few things published by Marvel and DC during the ’00s and early ’10s, but it was his eight-pager kicking off a new Batman Black and White run in 2014, that garnered attention. “Don’t Know Where, Don’t Know When,” was written by author and book designer supreme Chip Kidd, who kindly shared with this magazine appreciation for his collaborator: “Michael Cho and his work embody the ideal 40

of the best of comics artists: strength, joy, power, vulnerability, courage, heart. He accomplishes all of this with a remarkable economy of means and a splendid sense of design. I am never less than thrilled to see what he does.” Since that break-out effort, Cho has been tapped by DC and Marvel to produce a vast number of beautifully designed, retro-centric covers, plus he wrote and drew the remarkably sensitive and evocative Shoplifter, a short graphic novel Publishers Weekly called, “A funny and touching portrait of urban angst.” All told, however, Cho has created but a handful of mainstream comic book stories though he is poised to launch into superstar status once a dream project — which might or might not involve characters and concepts created by certain comics royalty with the initials “J.K.” — is realized and I'll be the very first in line when any Cho tribute to the King makes its debut. — Jon B. Cooke #30 • Spring 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

the beauty of the world

The X-Men TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Batman, Robin TM & © DC Comics. Shoplifter, background illustration © Michael Cho.

Conducted by Jon B. Cooke • Transcribed by Tom Pairan Comic Book Creator: Did you have creative people in your family, Mike? Michael Cho: No, I did not. I was born in South Korea. My dad was a hardcore businessman — an entrepreneur — who had been in the army, which I think was the formative experience in his life. My mom was a former schoolteacher, and neither of them did anything creative, but that’s partially due to economic circumstances. They were kids during the Korean War. So, there was no opportunity to be a pianist or artist or something like that. But my mom does have an appreciation for the arts and, having thought it over through the years — trying to figure out where my creativity came from — I think it comes from that side, because she appreciated literature and fine art. Her favorite painter is Cezanne, for example. So I know she had an inclination toward creativity; she just never had the economic means to pursue that or even thought of that as a viable career. CBC: What year were you born? Michael: 1971. CBC: So you came over when you were six, so that was 1977 or ’78? Michael: I think it was January of 1977 when I came over. And we came to the Maritimes, which is like New England in the U.S., but it’s Canada’s Atlantic section, the east coast. And it was a complete culture shock. [laughs] CBC: Do you have much memory of South Korea? Michael: Oh, yeah. I remember lots about South Korea, but I didn’t go to school there, because I left when I was six. So, therefore, I never attended a day of school in South Korea, except for an art class my mom signed me up for. I remember we had a house, for example, and we were considered rich because we had a telephone — even though we were not rich, by any means… we had an outhouse! This is like pre-modern South Korea, which is now a high-tech paradise. But, back then, in the ’70s, it was still being reconstructed after the Korean War, so we had a little concrete house in Seoul… with an outhouse. We COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2023 • #30

had a well and we used to pump water. We had coal stove that heated one little section of the floor. I remember we were considered well off because we had a telephone and we had a black-&-white TV, and nobody else in the neighborhood we knew of had those luxuries. And the wild thing about TV back then — and I remember this vividly — is it only started programming at 6 o’clock, around dinner time, and it would only go on until 11. And the first thing they would air at six were cartoons. So my mom had a hell of a time trying to pull me away from the TV to get me to eat dinner because they would play Mazinger Z or they would play Astro Boy, and all I wanted to do was watch those shows. CBC: So they were the Japanese cartoons? Michael: Yeah, so I was watching giant robot cartoons when I was like four or five, and that left a huge impression on me, because I decided that’s all I wanted to do. I wanted to actually build a giant robot and take over the world. I think that was my first career goal. [laughs]. And I wasn’t the only one… I remember going to see the first animated feature film that they made in Korea called Robot Taekwon V, which is their knock-off of Mazinger Z, the first giant robot cartoon, and it was like Star Wars over here, like there were riots — CBC: “Riots,” really? Michael: Oh, yeah! It was the biggest thing. Basically, Korea today is an animation powerhouse, right? And that movie started it. Because, what happened was, it was such a big hit that, even in Seoul, there were riots because kids would come to the film and the movie would be two hours late because the other theater decided to squeeze in one more screening before they gave up the reel to the next theatre, you know? And so we’d be sitting there while kids are screaming and throwing popcorn or whatever, and I remember that movie vividly. Years later, when I was in art college, I was talking with a friend I’d met and 41

Above: Posters of the first and second installments of the wildly successful South Korean animated film franchise, Robot Taekwon V. The initial release made an impact on young Michael Cho and was dubbed and renamed Voltar the Invincible when it hit screens in the United States. Below: Michael Cho and his older sister as babies, photographed with their mother in pix taken before the family’s move from their native South Korea to Canada.

#30 • Spring 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

he had recently arrived from Korea, and we were talking about Robot Taekwon V. I mentioned that I saw that in Korea and he said, “Which one?” And I was like, “What do you mean, ‘which one’?” He said, “They made four of them.” I was stunned. I did not know there were more sequels. It’s like finding out there are four extra Star Wars films that you’d never seen! CBC: So, when you came to Canada you came through the Maritimes. Did you go straight to Toronto? Michael: No. I came from Seoul, which is a super-bustling, gigantic city even then, where there’s millions of people. And then I came to the Maritimes, which is like as rural as you get in Canada. So that’s where we landed, in Newfoundland, which is the island at the furthest, eastern-most edge. When you see photos of Newfoundland, it looks like Scotland in the 1920s. My mom had taken a few English courses so she could

navigate Canada because we were going to emigrate. My dad had been over here for a while, setting up some form of an existence for us. We were told that Canada’s a very cold country, so we all got in our winter coats, and then got on this plane, and our first stopover was Hawaii, where it was super-hot, and we’re in these winter coats. And my mom’s trying to figure out where the connecting flight is and I’m tugging on my mom’s sleeve, going, “I don’t understand. I thought you took English… I thought you spoke English!” And then I fell asleep on the plane and, the next thing I know, when I woke up, I was basically in a log cabin in Newfoundland. I awoke and looked up and saw these wood beams, and I was like, “What is this?” My big memory from Newfoundland, at that time, was there were some local people trying to help us, and one of them offered to take me to a baseball game. I thought it was a baseball game, meaning at a stadium, because that’s what I was used to in Seoul, and we went and it was just a game in the middle of the field, just two teams playing, with the grass up to my neck! And I’d never seen grass that tall, because I was a city kid. So, it was a complete culture shock. And we spent a good six months sort of moving all around the Maritimes, as my dad and mom considered settling there, and then we moved to Hamilton, Ontario, which is just an hour outside Toronto. And that’s where I spent most of my childhood. CBC: What was your father’s trade? What was his vocation? Michael: My father had a really weird life in that regard, because he was kind of a maverick. He was in the Vietnam War as an army officer, because it was financially viable. In Korea, at that time, there was no money, with very few job prospects. From an early age, after his oldest brother was killed accidentally during the Korean war (he was a teen and was playing at his friend’s house when they dropped a bomb on it by mistake) my dad became the breadwinner for six brothers and sisters, because he was now the oldest son. So he decided to enlist in the army and became an officer because he was very smart. He became a captain and then went to Vietnam as an army officer working with the U.N. and U.S. forces. And there he started an import/export business — shipping TVs and things like that back to Korea — and then, after he got out, he became the manager of an all-girl band that toured U.S. Army bases. And so, he came to the United States and toured Army bases with this all-girl band, and then eventually managed them as they made their way through Canada, with him trying to make enough money so he could bring my mom, my sister, and me over. So that was my dad’s initial job and then, when we settled in Hamilton, he did what most Koreans did in that era, which was open a variety store. He basically came here with nothing and got a little bank loan and put down a down payment to purchase a variety store in Hamilton, Ontario, in the worst part of town. Well, it was the

toughest part of town. And that’s how we got our start in Canada. CBC: So your sister, is she older or younger? Michael: She’s one year older. CBC: Oh, so you were both pretty small when you came to Canada. Okay, your father started the convenience store. Is there a network of Korean expatriates who could help him out with setting one up? Michael: Yeah. The nice thing about Koreans is they always have this sort-of network that helps each other out, like most immigrant communities. With Koreans, the way it works generally is, whatever large metropolitan city they end up in, they usually have to find a church or something they can belong to, right? And the various members of the church pool some money together as a loan to give to the new family, to help them get a start. And that helps out with things and they join a community, so they’re not quite so homesick. But, back in the ‘70s, when we came over, there was no Korean popular culture in North America. Nowadays, Korean culture dominates everything, right? You’ve got movies that are Oscar winners; you’ve got music that has conquered the world; everybody has a Samsung phone… but, back then, whenever I’d say I’m Korean, they would go, “What’s that? Are you Chinese?” It was a lot different back then. CBC: What was your first taste of American pop culture? Michael: When we were in Newfoundland… Keep in mind it took a year or two years to learn the language, right? When we first landed in the Maritimes, my dad took us to some movies, because he was a huge movie buff. And I would constantly fall asleep in these things because I didn’t know the language. I remember seeing A Star Is Born, with Barbra Streisand, and we watched Rocky (and I did a little better with that because, while I fell asleep for most of it, when it came time for the final fight, I woke up). Then he took me and my mom to this theatre where there was a double-bill and my mom said, “Look, there’s a line up around the block!” And she was going to go see the horror film, maybe it was The Omen, or something like that. She was like, “They must all be here for this horror film. It must be good!” And then my dad took us to see this other film that was playing that happened to be Star Wars. And the line was obviously for that. When Star Wars started, I did not fall asleep. I don’t think I knew any English at the time, but I remember it so vividly and I understood the story and, when the film was over, I met up with my mom and she said, “There was no one to see that ghost story film at all.” [laughs] CBC: So when did you first pick up a pencil and start drawing? Michael: I was drawing since I was, like, three. That was a core part of my identity, for as long as I can remember. Back then, in the ‘70s, in Korea, you would go to the local corner store, and they would sell you ten sheets of paper for a penny. And I’d buy that and would just draw on both sides — giant robots, whatever — things I could think of and that’s how I amused myself. And I remember the big thing that happened: they used to have little stationery stores and they would sell all sorts of paper stuff to kids, like coloring books. But there was one set of books where they were like these little paperback things. They had a picture at the top that was a still from cartoon and then a space at the bottom for you to your copy of that. And one time I bought one and it had a contest: “Send in your best version of a drawing from this book and we’ll pick some winners.” And so I did my very best copy of a giant robot animated still. Then I sent it away and I waited, and this huge paper package arrived, a manila envelope stuffed to the gills, and it COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2023 • #30

said I had won third place! This was my prize and it was a pack of loose paper games that this company had put out… origami things to fold, a car that you could fold out of paper. There was a paper soccer game where you cut out the ball and there were these rules to play soccer. And that’s when I knew I had made it as an artist! [laughter] CBC: Holy smokes, that must have been quite the thrill! Michael: It was just a manila envelope, full of 30 or 40 little things like that, right, but when I was five — CBC: It’s treasure! Michael: Yeah, totally! And it convinced me that, you know, I have a future in art. [laughs] CBC: Were you born, were you given the name Michael? Michael: No. When we came here, we had to use Western names so we could assimilate better, and I think my dad picked it, but he could never spell “Michael” properly! So he’d sometimes, on my government documents, write “Mike.” I’m officially called “Mike Cho,” which is hilarious. [laughs] CBC: So, what was your first exposure to comics? Michael: Iron Man #145… [looks it up online] “Raider’s Rampage,” and it was drawn by John Romita, Jr., and Bob Layton… That was the first comic book I saw it at my parents’ variety store, because, back in the ’70s, they stocked comic books, along with MAD magazine, and a million other publications. They had a little comic rack and they would get comics every month. I saw this Iron Man thing on the stands and it reminded me of giant robots. Because it had a guy in an iron suit and I could relate to that. I remember reading this thing and learning enough English to read it, and that left such a huge impression

Above: Cho vividly recalled the first time he watched Star Wars in a movie theater. Despite not knowing English at the time, when the motion picture started, Cho said, “I did not fall asleep.” Incidentally, this famous poster by the Hildebrandt brothers was produced in a mere 36 hours!

Below: Michael and his grandmother and his father.