INTERVIEW: SIMON GODWIN AND KATHRYN HUNTER rather minor. And his essay was about presenting a view of the play as majestic, monumental, hugely symbolic and grandiose with its arguments. And that’s been very important in feeling access to those beliefs that Timon has. But from a distance, there’s a sort of question mark about reciprocal gestures. Seen, being seen, intimacy. I think the play explores what it is to give and why it is hard to receive. And what it triggers in you, Kathryn, as Timon. The shock you undergo, that provokes you to go to such an extreme place. RICHARD McCOY Timon the character seems
determined to undo reciprocity. And that remark is characteristic of doing that; she wants to just give. I mean, she is an extraordinarily generous person. SIMON GODWIN Actually, I’ve just realized,
I’ve said something untrue. RICHARD McCOY Yes? SIMON GODWIN You’ve just shown me
something. This story is, like you said, full of strange riddles. You think you know it and it just tells you something different. I just spent a lot of time defining reciprocity. One of the strange ironies of the play, though, is that it is Timon that says, I have given them money, they will give me money. So, yes, Timon has an issue emotionally reciprocating. But in terms of receiving a gift, she’s actually very much behind that. When Apemantus says, at the end of the party, don’t give me something, I’m not going to accept (what he describes as) a bribe… actually, Kathryn, you’re very cruel. As we learned, something is riled by that comment. KATHRYN HUNTER Yes. The accusation that I
want to be flattered. And there is some truth to that. On the other hand, we’ve indicated that I totally embrace the other argument. I’m so glad I’m not you, says Timon to Apemantus. And I’m glad I’m not you, he replies, that I wasn’t prodigal. And Timon says well, I am glad I am prodigal. “Oh, thank you so much.” “Thank you.” 18
RICHARD MCCOY
RICHARD McCOY I was struck by the Christ-like
character of Timon. But of course, she’s not a god. KATHRYN HUNTER I think Shakespeare and
Middleton are excitingly plain with this idea. You know, what would Christ do if he were offended? Turn the other cheek. And it’s as if Shakespeare is going, how about if you didn’t turn the other cheek? Just, you know, “whack!” SIMON GODWIN Yeah, that’s right. Christ loses
it, loses his temper. KATHRYN HUNTER Timon [has a reputation]—
oh, it’s that play where, you know, that guy curses us for hours. Do we really want to go and be cursed at? And I think we both feel that somewhere in the cursing, there’s a mission of cleansing. Let’s take stock. This is not good. Finish this version and start another. I’m sure until the end that Timon stays in touch with God. Never loses her connection. RICHARD McCOY That’s really interesting.
Cleansing as in catharsis? KATHRYN HUNTER Yeah. I mean, it’s quite a
dark perspective, like: let’s admit, this is no good. Should we start over? “What wouldst thou do with the world, Apemantus, if it lay in thy power?” “Give it the beasts, to be rid of the men.” SIMON GODWIN I think that betrayal is
another piece. It’s such a strong word, betrayal. If I were to ask you, “Have you ever been betrayed?” it does something in our feelings. I’ve always found it very moving—Christ, his betrayal. As a story, it’s almost the best bit, the most resonant. So, in Timon, this question of betrayal by those that you thought loved you starts to put it into a passion, a suffering. It’s such a kind of edgy, asymmetrical, bawdy, funny, city comedy. And yet at the very end, Timon does come up with a very serious, very beautiful line: “nothing brings me all things.” RICHARD McCOY Speaking of Christ again, I
think of the Corpus Christi College at Oxford, a name which means “body of Christ”; its emblem is a pelican. According to legend, the pelican does
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