Reports from committees : eighteen volumes. Sugar and coffee planting. Part.1 (2) by Bibliothèque numérique Manioc / SCD Université Antilles

THIRD

REPORT FROM THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON

SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING; TOGETHER WITH THE

MINUTES AND

EVIDENCE ,

APPENDIX.

Ordered, by The House of Commons, to be Printed, 14

167.

March

1848.

395

[

]

Veneris, 4째 die Februarii, 1848. Ordered, THAT a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the Present Condition and Prospects of the Interests connected with, and dependent on, SUGAR and COFFER PLANTING in Her Majesty's East and West Indian Possessions and the Mauritius, and to consider whether any and what Measures can be adopted by Parliament for their Relief.

Luna,

7째

die Februarii, 1848.

Committee nominated : Lord George Bentinck. Mr. Labouchere. Mr. Goulburn. Mr. Milner Gibson. Mr. Card well. Sir Thomas Birch. Mr. Henry Hope. Mr. Charles Villiers.

Mr. Philip Miles. Mr. James Wilson. Lord George Manners. Mr. Ewart. Sir John Pakington. Mr. James Matheson. Sir Edward Buxton.

Ordered,

THAT

the Committee have power to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Ordered,

THAT

Five be the Quorum of the said Committee.

Martis, 15째 die Februarii, 1848. Ordered, THAT Mr. Ewart be discharged from further attendance on the Committee, and that Mr. Moffatt be added thereto.

Jovis, 24째 die Februarii, 1848. Ordered, THAT the Committee have power to Report the Minutes of Evidence taken before them, from time to time, to The House.

REPORT

iii

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE

APPENDIX

p. 337

[

THIRD

iii

]

397

REPORT.

THE SELECT COMMITTEE appointed to inquire into the present Condition and Prospects of the Interests connected with, and dependent on,

SUGAR

and

COFFEE PLANTING

in Her Majesty's East

and West Indian Possessions and the Mauritius, and to consider whether any and what Measures can be adopted by Parliament for their Relief, and who were empowered to Report the EVIDENCE

MINUTES

taken before them, from time to time, to The House ;

HAVE made a farther Progress in the Inquiry referred to them.

167.

March 1848.

[

]

LIST OF WITNESSES.

Luna:, 28° die Februarii, 1848. Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden W. Dennison, Esq. .

p. -

1 32

Mercurii, 1° die Martii, 1848. W. Dennison, Esq. T.Price, Esq. Lord Viscount Ingestre, M. P.

p. 36 p. 76

Jovis, 2° die Martii, 1848. W. Scott, Esq.p. S. B. Moody, Esq. p.

Sabbati, 4 die Martii, 1848. A. Colvile, Esq. Mr. B. B. Greene

p.111 -

p. 135

Luna:, 6° die Martii, 1848. Mr. F. Morton Mr. T. Dickonp.159 J. A. Hankey, Esq. p.

p. 157 176

Mercurii, 8° die Martii, 1848. Commander H. J. Matson, R.N. p. 193 Mr. H. Dummett H. Crossley, Esq.

p. 211 231

Jovis, 9° die Martii, 1848. J. Tollemache, Esq. M.P. p. 241 F. Shand, Esq. W. Imrie, Esq.

p. 262 p. 279 p. 279

Sabbati, 11° die Martii, 1848. Sir W. Codrington, Bart. Mr. J. Currie p. 293 T. Naghten, Esq. Mr. H. Browning

p 285 p. 328 p. 335

399

[ 1 ] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Luna, 28° die Februarii, 1848. MEMBERS PRESENT.

Lord George Bentinck. Sir Thomas Birch. Sir Edward Buxton. Mr. Milner Gibson.

Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr.

Goulburn. Hope. Matheson. Miles.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK, IN THE CHAIR.

The Right Hon. the Lord Howard de Walden; Examined. 4422. Chairman.] HAVE you large estates in Jamaica?—I have one estate on the north side of the island, and a share in an estate on the south side. 4423. One is a pen estate, and the other a sugar-field estate ?—On the north side the sugar estate has a pen adjoining it, and on the south side also there is a small pen adjoining the sugar estate. 4424. What is the distance between the two estates?—Two good days' journey. 4425. Can you state to the Committee the effect of emancipation on the produce of your estates ?—On the estate on the north side of the island the produce used to average from GOO to 800 hogsheads a year; and since emancipation, I think it has never produced 300 hogsheads. 4420. What was the extent of cane-field you had in cultivation before emancipation, and what has been the quantity since ?—I have had a return made in reference to the cane-field subsequently to emancipation, but I have not been able to make it out for the time previously to emancipation, in consequence of the destruction during the rebellion of all the papers connected with the estate, and also in consequence of the destruction of Paper-buildings here. Therefore there is a sort of chasm in the accounts. I can only state generally, from the chart I have of the cane-field, and what I know personally from parties who had. been employed upon the cane-field before emancipation, that the whole canefield was about 1,100 acres, out of which there were between 600 and 700 acres annually in cultivation with canes. From the map which I have, giving the details of the cane-field in cultivation, it appears that there were 640 acres actually bearing canes for crop ; and since emancipation, with the exception of the years 1836, 1837, and 1838, there have not been 300 acres. 4427. How much was there in those years?—In 1836, 339; in 1837, 382; and in 1838, 382. I have every year, consecutively, from 1836 to 1847 inclusive; and with the exception of 1836, 1837, and 1838, there has been no year since emancipation in which we have been able to keep up the cane-field to 300 acres. 4428. And those three years were the three last years of apprenticeship ?— Yes. 4429. Then in 1839 the quantity under sugar cultivation fell to 212 acres 200 acres in 1840, 171 acres in 1841, and 202 acres in 1842 ?—Yes. 4430. What was the reason that the cultivation fell off so much in those four years, as compared with the three previous years of apprenticeship ?—It arose from the inability to obtain labour at the proper season for putting in the canes, although we have the same number of negroes on the estate; none have left the estate. 4431 • You stated before that your average export of sugar, previous to emancipation, was from 600 to 800 hogsheads ?—Yes. 0.32. B 4432. I see

Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

2 Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

4432. I see by this statement that 303 hogsheads were shipped in the year 1836, and that the produce fell to 171 hogsheads in 1837, and 172 hogsheads in 1838 ; those three last years were years of apprenticeship; how do you account for the falling off in the produce in 1837 and 1838, as compared with 1836?—I presume that must have been from the canes not yielding, owing to the season being unfavourable. 4433. After 1838, which was the expiration of apprenticeship, I observe that a much greater falling off occurred; that the produce fell down in 1839 to 76 hogsheads, and in 1840 to 55 hogsheads ?—That must have been caused by the season, but the number of acres under sugar cultivation is the general criterion of the produce of the estate; the sugar cultivation has not been affected so much by the season as by want of labour. 4434. Does not the crop gathered depend, in some degree, upon the possibility of obtaining a good supply of labour in proper time to gather in the sugar-canes ? —Not materially ; in general the negroes are sufficiently ready to work during the gathering in of the crop, because they obtain very high wages at that time; in fact, they dictate their terms to the proprietors. [His Lordship delivered in the Paper, which is as follows:] MONTPELIER. ESTATE. STATEMENT

of Cane-Field, Estimated Crop, and Sugar received, from 1836 to 1847, inclusive. CANE-FIELD.

YEA It.

Crop

First Second Tall Plant. Spring Plant. Battoons. Battoons.

Acres.

1836 1837 1838 1839 1840 1841 1842 1843 1844 1845 1846 1847

96 92 51 68 32 40 44 35 31 35 38 54

22 59 36 -

40 46 . 29 46 33 42 46

Acres.

91 96 115 100 98 33 81 90 58 74 68 80

Estimated at.

Third Battoons.

Total Acres.

Acres.

125 91 59 7 69 30 31 81 70 58 55 45

26 78 97 -

27 -

339 382 382 212 200 171 202 236 204 201 205 225

Sugar Shipped to England.

Hogsheads.

327 294 248 172 152 ' 226 186 177 165 180 240

Hogsheads.

303 171 172 76 55 149 168 142 175 150 200 275

Mem.—Cane-field, previous to Emancipation, 640 acres.

4435. You have stated to the Committee what the difference in the produce of the cane-field was before and after emancipation; can you state what the difference is in the outgoing of the plantation previous to emancipation and during apprenticeship, and subsequently to apprenticeship?—No; I do not think 1 could give any of those details in a satisfactory manner. The principal item, of course, is the payment of wages. You asked me the cause of the falling-off in the cane-field, and I stated that no negroes had left the estate; I may say, and it is a remarkable circumstance, that the population on the estate has increased ; though at the time of emancipation there were only 800 negroes on the estate, there are now altogether above 1,500 on the estate, and yet, notwithstanding that, it is impossible to command labour enough to put in the extent of canefield that we should desire to have. There is a cane-field of 500 acres of very fine land, lying contiguous to the works, which it would be a great object to establish, but from want of command of labour we have never been able to establish even 300 acres. 4436. If you had a sufficient supply of labour, do you conceive that you could now maintain again the cultivation of 1,100 acres?—Yes, I think so, but not with the present wages ; it would not pay with the present wages. 4437. Your difficulties are want of industry, scarcity of labour, high wages, and great opportunities of combination on the part of the labourers ?—Yes. 4438. What information on those points are you enabled to give to the Committee ?— In the first place, with regard to continuous labour, that is very difficult to be obtained; it is very rare that, except during crop time, a negro will work

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

work above four days a week ; the fifth day he takes for his provision grounds, and the sixth day for marketing, and the marketing is, in fact, a sort of holiday for them. 4439. Have you kept an account of the greatest number of days that any labourer has worked upon your estate ?—Upon the sugar estate the greatest number of days worked upon it by a negro was 184, and on the pen 147, and in both cases they were females ; and this is extraordinary, because while I was on the island the people worked on Fridays and Saturdays, which they had never done before since emancipation, and continuously during the crop time. 4440. How many months were you in the island ?—I was on that estate only two months, but it was during crop time. Before I went to the island, on the pen they have never worked above four days in the week. Since I have left they have relapsed to the system of four days' work. 4441. How do you account for their working so much better during your presence ?—I think it was the result of my threats to them at the time, that unless they did work the estates would be thrown up ; and then there was a very good feeling on the part of the old negroes towards me, as representing the family; they did it as a sort of concession; I was in daily intercourse with them. 4442. Have you any account of the greatest number of days that any man worked upon that estate ?—No. 4443. But it is clear that on the pen estate it was a less number of days than 147, which would not average three days a week?—Yes, it was less than 147, for that is a solitary instance. 4444. Out of how many labourers ?—One hundred and thirty at Shuttlewood; that is the pen estate. 4445. There is one solitary instance out of 130 labourers of a woman being known to work 147 days in a year ?—Yes, but the working people on the estate separated from the tenantry, and people who do not work, are 569 ; those are in the habit of working occasionally, a few days at one time and a few days at another, and they are considered as the working population of the estate. 4446. What wages do you pay those persons ?—The rate of wages varies according to the work performed; I tried to introduce, as far as I could, taskwork wages, and under that system they could obtain easily in six or seven hours 2 s. a day. 4447. Those are what you call half dollar men ?—No ; we have no dollars; men and women earn that sum. 4448. Do the women do nearly as much as the men?—Yes, 2s.; the labour, which they perform in six hours, was what was considered a fair day's labour during slavery ; but having done what was considered a fair day's labour during slavery, they would not work a minute longer, although they worked at task-work. 4449. No matter what wages you offered them?—No matter what wages you offered them. 4450. Did you make any attempt to lower those wages ?—Yes, I did make the attempt to lower the wages, and was partially successful, but it was in crop time, and the system of combination is such that it makes it almost impossible to succeed ; for instance, during crop time they will not all strike work at once. It is necessary, of course, to have different gangs ; one gang to cut the canes, another gang of cart drivers, boys and women to supply the mills with trash; and any one gang striking work, of course, stops the whole business of the day; during crop, when you have 100 people employed, that causes a great loss; all your people who are at work are stopped, but you are obliged to pay them wages for the day's work. 4451. If the cane is not taken immediately to the mill after it is cut it becomes sour, does it not ?—In very fine dry weather it may keep one or two days, but in wet weather it becomes sour immediately ; and that part of the island is very subject to showers during the crop time. 4452. That would spoil the whole batch of cane that had been cut ?—Yes. 4453. Did it happen to you to be stopped work from any strike for wages ?— Yes ; I was stopped work when I attempted to reduce wages. After having explained to the people the grounds upon which it was necessary to make a reduction in the expenses of the estate, they apparently acquiesced, but the next day, after one party was at work, a gang came from one of the villages and objected to accepting lower wages, and they struck for wages. 4454. What was the result ?—The result was that we stopped the mill. We 0.32. were B 2

401 Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

4 Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

were at issue for a couple of days. It was necessary for me to make some small concession to two classes, the most influential classes, but in respect to the others I obtained a reduction of about 20 per cent.; but the most influential people carried their point. 44,55. You were able to reduce the negro wages from 2 s. to something like 19 d. ?—Yes; in some instances the reduction was as much as 25 per cent., from 2s. to 18 d., and in other instances from 18 d. to 15 (2., and from 15 (2. to 1 s. 4456. What description of people get only 1 .v. ?—I received only on Saturday last an account of the different wages which are paid on the estate. 4457. Had the crop commenced when you got that?—Yes, they were at work. For digging cane-holes the rate of wages is 2 s. 4458. Mr. G oulburn ] That is task-work reduced to day labour?—Yes; in six hours they can earn 2 s., and they would not work three hours more to gain 3 s. Ploughing cane-holes, 2s.; this is the payment that has been actually made. 4459. Chairman.] Those men appear to work only three days in a week ?—• Yes, the pen-keepers work every day in the week. 4460. What wages do they get ?—Eight shillings for seven days. It is necessary for them to keep a look out every day. Blacksmiths, 1 s. 3 (2. a day ; cane carriers, 9 s. 9 d. for five days' work. 4461. Mr. Goulhum.] Those figures rather represent the actual earnings than the wages per day ?—Exactly. In the mill a man watching the coppers in five days earned 11 s. 10 J d. 4462. Fie worked rather more than five days ?—Yes. The boys earned 6 d. a day; stokers, working five days, earned 11 s. 4 1/2 d. ; cutting bamboos, which is extremely light work, Is. 3d. and Is. 6d. a day; digging trash, 1 s. 3(2. and 1 s.6d. a day; carrying dry trash, ls. 3(2.; this gives the rate of wages, which they earn easily. Drying trash, 9d., which is merely turning it like hay during the sunny time of the day. Potting the sugar 11 s. 3 d., that is for six days. Stillmen, six days, 7 s. (id. 4463. Chairman.] Will you state to the Committee what the result of the balance-sheet of the Montpelier Estate is ?—This is the balance-sheet for eight years, from 1840 to 1847. [His Lordship delivered in the same, which is as follows;] Montpellier Estate, Pen, and Wharf, and Shuttlewood Pen and Butchery Returns. RECEIPTS

absorbed in the Island; Balances remaining on Total Results, viz.: YEARS

1840.

£. Amount bills drawn from Jamaica English supplies, &c.

Total

Net proceeds produce Loss, 1840

1841.

£.

1842.

£.

1843.

£.

1,050

1,500

2,000

3,824

721

780

848

629

732

669

805

1,632

3,033

3,480

3,498

3,429

1,782

2,169

3,300

5,456

2,791

4,824

4,231

3,999

5,103

4,431

5,600

5,575

1,344

733

570

3,321

2,262

2,301

119

2,091

2,021

1,786

1,826

1,230

241

570

JIhds.

Hhds.

—

1,431

948

1,215

Loss on the sugar estate -

1,567

215

645

Profit on the sugar estate

Hhds. 51

Punch. -

£.

2,800

1,325

Rum

£.

1847.

2,650

242

£.

1840.

2,700

Balances transferred in Jamaica by Mr. Jackson, in favour of the pen, wharf &c.,

Amount of produce -

£.

1845.

2,312

Profit on all the properties

(Sugar -

1844.

Hhds.

1,707

Hhds.

149

168

142

175

150

200

275

Punch.

launch.

Punch.

103

104

4464. Can

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

403

4464. Can you explain how it is that there is in each year a " balance trans- Right Hon. Lord de Walden• ferred by Mr. Jackson in favour of the pen, wharf, &c.," which makes it appear Howard that the two estates produced a loss ?—This return is made out with reference to the proceedings of the two estates; without the pen the sugar estate would 28 February 1848 have returned hardly anything. 4465. Mr. Goulburn Mr. Jackson makes a profit upon the pen, which he transfers to the sugar estate, instead of remitting it to England ?—Exactly. Therefore an estate which has a pen attached to it is in a better position than a sugar estate with no pen attached to it. 4466. Sir E. Buxton.'] In 1841 there was a profit upon the sugar estate as well as upon the pen ?—There was. 4467. Chairman.] Then the result of that table is, that during those eight years there has been a very considerable loss upon the estate ; there is a balance agaist the estate ?—Exactly; there has been a profit lately on the sugar estate in consequence of obtaining gradually more labour and extending the cane-field; the estate has been reviving for the last three years. In 1845, 1846, and 1847 it produced 150,200, and 275 hogsheads. 4468. It seems, according to this statement, that while the estate in the year 1840 produced 55 hogsheads, the loss was 1,567 l., whilst last year when it produced a larger quantity of sugar than in any one of the preceding years, viz. 275 hogsheads, the loss exceeded that of any other year; it was 1,707 l.; therefore, notwithstanding the increased produce, the loss upon the estate in the last year was greater than that of any other year ; that, I presume, arose from the reduced price of sugar ?—Yes. I have an estimate of the loss upon the crop caused by the difference of price ; this refers to the two estates, Montpelier and the Caymanas estate. The sugar of the Caymanas estate is much finer than the other. [His Lordship delivered in the same, which is as follows:] Montpelier Sugar Crop, 1847. M. 275 Hhds. containing 4,111 cwts. sugar, valued in February 1847, At - - - - Average sale was Depreciation

52/ per cwt. is 39/ „

-----

13/

„

Loss

£. s. d. 10,688 12 8,016 9 £. 2,672

Caymanas Sugar Crop, 1847. E.C. 132 1/2 Hhds. containing 1,826 cwts., valued in February 1847, £. s. d. At - - - - 54/ per cwt. 4,930 4 Average sale was 41/,,- 3,743 - -

Depreciation

13/

„

£. 1,187

Loss £. 1,187

Loss on sugar

-•

£. 3,859

4469. That Return refers to two estates; can you give a profit and loss account of the Caymanas estate from the year 1840 to 1847 inclusive?—This is a statement of the Caymanas estate. [His Lordship delivered in the same, which is as follows:] Caymanas Estate and Crawle Pen. Returns. Year.

1840 1841 1842 1843 "1844 1845 1846 1847 0.32.

Sugar.

Rum.

Profit.

Hhds. 64 32 156 94 68 132 64 132

Punchs. 20 15 86 58 40 64 40 75

£ 2,810

Loss. £. —

408 drought.

2,276 1,548 82 1,442

— —

— drought. —

470 drought; great loss of cattle. 500 Estimated loss.

B 3

4470. Sir

6 .Right Hon. I,old Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

4470. Sir T. Birch.] Is there a pen attached to the Caymanas estate ?—Yes. I believe both the Montpelier estate and the Caymanas estate are considered peculiarly well-favoured estates. 4471. Mr. Miles.] Is the land level?—One estate is level, the other is a mountain estate on the north side of the island. 4472. The estate on the south side is better supplied with labour than the other estate ?—It is better supplied with labour than the other, but at high rates of wages. 4473. It has not been so subject to want of labour in particular seasons as the estate on the other side of the island ?—No; the difficulty we have had to contend with on the south side has been the rate of wages; on the other side there was a positive want of labour at any price. You could not obtain labour for the purpose of putting in the cane in the autumn, which is the principal time for labour. 4474. Do you know how far the profit upon the Caymanas estate has been derived from the Crawle pen ?—I cannot ascertain that very clearly, because the accounts of those estates have not been kept separately. 4475. Have you any reason to suppose that a large part of that profit has been derived from the Crawle pen ?—No, it is not a very profitable pen. In Shuttlewood the pen assists the sugar estate considerably. 4476. Sir T. Birch.] How do you account for the great increase of population on the Montpelier estate ?—It is owing to land being let to tenants who have come from the other estates. 4477. What use do those persons make of the land when they get it?—They cultivate a small piece of ground, perhaps an acre, for which they pay rent, and which affords a resource to the estate, because those negroes pay five dollars a year for their house and grounds. 4478. Do they work at all on the estate?—Hardly ever ; it is very difficult to get them to work. 4479. They are satisfied with the cultivation of the plot of ground that they rent?—Yes,in most instances they are; hut they also work upon other estates. 4480. Chairman.] Comparing the two estates, it would seem that the Caymanas estate and the Crawle pen have shown a net profit, in eight years, of 5,7881.; whilst the Montpelier estate, and Shuttlewood pen and wharf, have shown a loss of 2,195 l. in the same period of eight years ; how do you account during the same period ; has the outlay of capital on the Montpelier estate been greater than on the other estate ?—On the Caymanas estate we have had to contend only with high wages; and in keeping up the cultivation of the estate the proportion of loss was only affected by the rate of wages ; whereas on the other estate, that being a larger estate, and much more expensive, the present cane-field not being proportioned to the establishment, of course the expenses were proportionally too great. The establishment was calculated for an estate producing from 400 to 500 hogsheads of sugar; and in order to yield a profit upon such an establishment, you must have an extensive cane-field. The works likewise are all in proportion to that cane-field ; therefore all the contingencies, and expenses, and repairs, are much greater upon that estate than on the Caymanas estate, although for many years the amount of produce upon the two estates has been the same. 4481. How come you to have maintained the Montpelier estate under cultivation, because in ordinary years it appears to have lost 2,195l.?—Nobody likes to throw up an estate as long as he sees a hope of better times and a better crop. 4482. Mr. Goutturn.] Does the estate happen to be part of an estate under a marriage settlement?—Yes, it does. 4483. Therefore there are other incomes dependent upon it besides that which you derive ?—Yes. 4484. Therefore it is a matter of conscience with you to retain the estate in your hands as the incomes of other persons are dependent upon it?—Certainly. 4485. Chairman.] It appears that upon the joint estates the average net income during eight years has been 900 /. a year ; can you state what the income of those estates was in former times, during your father's lifetime?—In former times those estates used to net above 20,0001, a year. 4486. Mr. Goulhurn.] What did they net in the last year before emancipation ? —I cannot tell, because all the papers have been burnt, some during the rebellion in

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

405

in the island, and others accidentally in the attorney's chambers at Paper-buildings here. 4487. Chairman.] Do you know from recollection of what your father said, what the estates netted in 1823?—It was about 20,0001, a year ; and I also know from tradition from my father that his merchant, the late Mr. Deffield, when doing business for him, gave him credit for 20,000 I. a year for those estates. 4488. Then the average income of those estates in your father's lifetime was 20,000/. a year previous to emancipation?—I cannot state that positively ; it is difficult for me, without accounts, to say what the estate did really average, for there were bad seasons, and so on, which would affect the average. 4489. In certain years during the war I believe they netted 40,000 I. ?—I cannot state; but I know that they produced a large amount. When I stated that the cane-field was 1,100 acres, and that the amount actually under cultivation was from 600 to 700 acres, and that now I have not been able, till this year, to establish 300 acres of cane-field, it speaks for itself as to the cause of the falling off of the produce of the estate, because with the same establishment on the estate it produced 600 hogsheads, which would more than treble the present proceeds of the estate. 4490. I believe you have done everything that it is possible to do in the way of machinery for the improvement of the estates ?—Yes ; the estates happen to be peculiarly well favoured, in consequence of having a good water power, therefore the expense of the mill is not so great as it is on many estates. I have had a return from my agent, which he made out under my direction, stating the cost per cwt. of sugar in the years 1846 and 1847 ; he has also sent me a return of 16 estates under his own management, the names of those estates are not given for special reasons; but he has given a calculation of the expense of sugar per cwt., setting against it all the proceeds in the island as well as the value of the rum. Upon the Montpelier estate, in 1846, the expense was 1 I. 0s. 10d. per cwt., and in the last year, with a larger crop, it was only 11 s. 6 3/4 d.; and notwithstanding that the cost of the production of sugar was lis. 6 3/4 d. a cwt. instead of 1 I. 0 s. 10 d. the preceding year, and notwithstanding a greater crop, there is a loss upon the estate in the last year as compared with the former year.

Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

[His Lordship delivered in two Papers, which are as follows:] INLAND ACCOUNT

YEAR.

of Cost of SUGAR per Cwt. on Montpelier Estate.

Total

Wages.

Receipts and Rum.

Crop.

Expenses.

Loss

Bills.

per Cwt.

£.

Hhds.

£.

1840 -

3,394

5,412

200

2,290

1847 -

3,450

5,050

275

3,399

- 11

£. s.

- 10

63/4

Balance remaining for English Produce. Expenses. Net

£.

2,500

5,600

3,166

3,824

5,575

1,751

STATEMENT of the Average Cost of One Cwt. of SUGAR on 10 Estates in the County of Cornwall.

No.

Amount of Wages.

£.

745 827 805 1,208 1,309 1,197 997 1,088 1,151

0.32.

14 3 15 2 8 6 1/2 3 8 12 2 10 1 5 0 17 2 19 11 1/2

Amount of all other Contingencies.

£.

769 9 853 7 770 19 849 1 850 15 837 3 834 5 789 1 739 12

d. 0 1 6 1/2 9 9 7 9 3 1/2

Value of the Rum, and other Receipts in the Island.

CROPS. TOTAL. Year.

£.

1,515 1,081 1,570 2,117 2,100 2,034 1,831 1,877 1,891

Hhds. Trs.

3 9 2 3 8 1 5 5 7 2 14 10 11 4 18 11 12 3

1845 1840 1847 1845 1846 1847 1845 1846 1847

55 78 56 77 77

16 0 8 2 0 63 0 0 94 0 99 0 125

—

Rum.

Cwt.

Puns. Hhds.

1,040 1,326 854 1,252 1,309 882 940 990 1,162

29 33 28 .37 41 35 30 30 23

0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0

£. 515 575 648 804 590 741 510 531 443

8 9 19 0 16 7 7 17 10 10 7 17 1 19 -

Cost of Sugar per Cwt., after deducting the other Receipt.

£.

jr.

- 19 2 - 13 7 1 1 8 1/4 1 - 11 1 3 10 I 9 3A 1 8 1 7 2 1 4 -

(continued)

B 4

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

No.

Amount of all other Contingencies.

Amount of Wages.

CRO PS. TOTAL. Rum.

Year. £. 4

1,192 1,097 1,321 933 955 1,030 898 799 807

1,920 2,179 2,005 2,148 2,615 2,457 1,286 1,458 1,558 1,072 1,208 1,118 779 959 950 2,029 3,394 3,450 1,292 1,391 1,299 1,510 1,505

17 8 10 9 15 2 10 7 — 1 - 6 3 8 2 11 17 9 2 10 13 7 12 9 1/2 17 2 14 3 3 4 1 5 9 10 5 4 13 11 12 9 14 15 10 8 1 8 11J 10 l" 7 10 - 10J - 10 9 2 19 5 17 7 2 1

£. 1,400 1,022 1,025 659 589 655 783 641 739 1,180 1,188 1,015 1,797 1,702 1,781 863 945 905 520 525 562 536 520 490 1 696 2,017 2,179 1,099 857 806 1,490 1,371

14 18 4 12 6 10 9 14 10 14 19 6 19 3 2 6 18 3 19 13 12 14 14 19 8 12 13 4 8 14 1 1

2 2 10 7 4

£.

2,593 2,120 2,347 1,593 1,544 9\ 1,683 - 1,681 6 1,440 7\ 1,547 4~ 3,100 3 3,368 10J 3,020 7 3,946 10 4,317 10 4,238 10 2,149 8 2,404 7 2,463 6 1,593 10 1,734 2 1,681 10 1,316 7 1,480 lj 1,441 1 4,325 6 5,412 6| 5,629 9 2,391 10 2,248 4 2,106 3 3,000 6 2,876

11 8 9 6 11 12 17 8 17 12 19 6 18 6 8 8 8 13 6 6 10 2 8 18 14 5 18 13 18 3

Hhds.Trs.

10 1845 11 1846 1847 2 1845 5 1846 4 1847 8 1845 5 1846 5 1847 2 1845 1846 10. 1847 8 1845 9 1 1846 2 1847 3 1845 1846 6 11 1847 1845 5 1846 7 2 1847 8 1845 1846 8 1 1847 1845 2 4 *1846 5 *1847 1845 7 0 1846 1847 9 10 1845 7 1846

120 77 160 70 50 63 75 37 79 148 178 132 196 224 224 98 127 122 61 83 68 35 53 42 150 200 276 71 80 81 193 113

11 10 10 10 15 20 0 1 0 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Value of the Rum, and other Receipts in the Island.

Cwt. Puns. Hhd.

Cost of Sugar per Cwt., after deducting the other Receipts.

£.

1,910 1,255 2,500 1,150 900 1,064 1,125 565 1,106 2,240 2,690 1,858 2,940 3,740 3,136 1,470 1,915 1,708 925 1,245 952 525 795 588 2,250 3,000 3,864 1,065 1,200 1,215 2,295 1,695

79 49 85 40 26 51 38 26 44 90 77 55 118 141 127 59 73 63 46 55 44 10 16 14 89 118 163 37 40 37 100 47

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 O 0 1 1 0 0 0

1,232 777 1,422 722 478 965 489 400 761 1,608 1,255 1,054 1,527 2,073 2,138 882 1,262 1,201 660 987 888 329 200 253 2,001 2,269 3,399 603 957 580 1,457 716

18 12 14 2 1 18 15 8 7 1 15 1 8 13 16 8

6 9 — 9 2 9 9 4 9 2 -

£. s.

1 4 7 19 19 17 6 13 10 19 6 18 14 10

8 3 6 10 7 6 7 10 8 10 11 3 -

- 14 2 1 1 4 - 8 - 15 1 1 3 8 - 13 5 1 1 2 1 16 9 - 14 2 4 - 13 3 - 15 8 1 1 3 1/4 - 16 7 - 12 - 12 8 1/2 - 17 1 - 11 10 - 14 9 1/4 1 - 2 - 11 11 - 16 7 3/4 1 17 1 12 2 2-4 - 11 10 1-10 - 11 6 3/4 1 13 11 1 1 6 1 8 7 - 13 6 1 5 6

945 023 2,058

35 24 83

1 1 0

820 16 982 15 1,950 4

1 4 -

- 18 8 1 14 1 - 6 6 3/4

Brls 15 10

1,103 5 1,033 14 1,395 13

8 610 1 1,025 1| 1,231

8 10 1,713 14 - 3 2,058 14 - 10J 2,626 14

6 4 -

1846 1846 1847

63 49 41 4 147 0

The foregoing is a Statement of the Average Cost of One Cwt. of Sugar on 16 Estates in the County of Cornwall. Viz.: 15 estates in 1845, average per cwt. 1846, ditto 16 „ ditto 14 „ 1847,

£. s. d. - 19 10 1/4 1 1 10 - 18 9 J

3 General Average

----£.

1-l 3/4

All rums of which account sales have not been received are valued at 15 l. per puncheon. In this calculation no allowance is made for interest on capital or the outlay, which would considerably increase the cost.

4491. Can you speak to the condition of the negroes both before and after emancipation ?—I can say nothing of my own experience as to the state of the negro before emancipation; it is only from hearsay that I can draw a comparison between their state then and their present state, but at the present moment, as far as my observation and my knowledge of the population in other countries go, I'shouid say that I do not know any population in any part of the world that I have visited so much at their ease as the negro population in Jamaica. 4492. What are their tastes ?—They are very fond of dress and amusements of all kinds ; one of their objects in obtaining a day in the week for marketing is that they consider the market-day as a day of pleasure. One of the reasons why we have found it so difficult to obtain continuous labour has been their taking so many holidays; they like holidays to celebrate emancipation, and they take holidays at Christmas and at Easter, and during those times they are going about the country and galloping about the roads on their own horses. 4493. What

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

4493. What proportion of the labourers on your estate keep and ride their own horses?—A considerable number keep horses. I have an account of the proportion on my estate of riding-horses ; upon my Shettlewood estate the number for which they pay rent is 74. 4494. How many families have you upon that estate ?—One hundred and fiftysix houses. 4495. Out of 156 houses, 74 keep their horses?—Yes; but in addition to that, they have their brood mares, and the value of those mares to them is considerable, as I ascertained from the difficulty I had in obtaining mares to breed from. I wanted to breed mules, and whilst I was in the island there were several young fillies, two years old, which I wanted to buy from the negroes, and they asked me from 10 I. to 12 I. apiece. They do not pay any rent for their colts or fillies till they are a year old, so that they often make from 8 I. to 10 I. in the year after paying 1 s. a week from the time the fillies are a year old ; they sell them at two years' old at from 7 l. to 8 I. apiece, and they asked me from 10 l. to 12 l. for the choice ones that I wished to buy. 4496. I observe from the heading of one of your estates that it was a pen and butchery ; in accounting for the loss upon the butchery account, it was stated that there had been a diminution in the sales, from the circumstance that the negroes had taken to killing their own meat?—Yes. 4497. In point of fact, then, they ride their own horses, and they kill their own meat ?—Yes. I can give a return of the population on the Montpelier and Shettlewood estates. I stated that the total was about 1,500; the exact number is 1,493; the working people or able people are 325; the invalids and children, 242; tradesmen, 15. Then there are classed as good workmen, 126; bad and irregular workmen, 86; houses, 156; 95 grounds; 74 horses. [His Lordship delivered in the Paper, "which is as follows :] GENERAL

Population on Montpelier and Shettlewood.

Old and New Montpelier ---Richmond Hill Mafoota and farm -------Shettlewood Coolies Portuguese

550 80 648 130

—

----------

1,408

40 45 85

TOTAL

1,493

Montpelier Estate and Shettlewood Pen. NUMBER

of Working People ; Houses, Grounds, and Horses, for which they pay Rent.

WORKING

PEOPLE.

HOUSES.

GROUNDS.

HORSES.

156

567

Able people Invalids and children

242

567

Tradesmen Good workmen Had and irregular

15 126 -

227

O.32.

Greatest

407 Right Hon. Lord Howard de Waldert. 28 February 1848.

10 Right Hon. Lord Howardde Walden, 28 February 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE Greatest Number of Days' Work by a Negro in 1847 : 184 Montpelier Shettlewood -------. .-147 N. B.—In both cases females.

I think I may safely say with regard to obtaining labour, that I obtained more labour this year than previously, owing to my having taken into my own hands some ground which had been leased in former times to a person who had a jobbing gang; though those people remained upon the estate and paid rent to their former mistress, they did no work upon my estate, and I believe upon no other estate in the neighbourhood; they confined themselves to cultivating their own ground. Being my tenants I said that they must work for me, or I should turn them off the estate, and I received accounts from my agent, in answer to inquiries I made respecting those people, that they all had been down to the estate and worked out the rent that was due from them, but not a day more. 4498. From your experience you come to the conclusion that the greatest mistake possible would be to allow the labourers to purchase freeholds?—Certainly ; I should consider it the most mischievous thing possible for the interests of the negroes as well as of the proprietor, because they are tempted in the first instance to buy the best soil which has never been cultivated before; that soil produces in general a fine crop the first year, a less good crop the second year, and of course it deteriorates gradually ; and when a bad season comes, those people, who have become freeholders, do not like to return to the field to work, and they struggle on against adversity, and they are exposed to disease in consequence of their grounds being generally in the mountain districts, the climate of which is not congenial to the negro ; they have no money to pay a doctor, and a doctor will not visit them gratuitously ; they consequently succumb, and are exposed to privations of all kinds, as well as diseases ; I believe the mortality among the negroes who have bought freeholds has been extremely great. 4499. Then you have come to an opinion quite the converse of that of Lord Grey upon the subject ?—Entirely, with reference to the purchase of freeholds by the negroes. 4500. Can you speak to the moral improvement of the negroes in Jamaica, as regards their education, religion, habits, dress, and marriage?—I believe that they have amazingly improved in every respect since emancipation ; everybody agrees that the change since emancipation has been very remarkable. 4501. What do you say of the local influences of the proprietors, agents, and clergy upon the negroes; have the proprietors much influence over the" negroes? —I do not think that the proprietors have a great deal of influence over the negroes, except in old established properties. I think that a good deal might have been done in former times had we had an efficient clergy established in the island ; it is only of late years that there has been anything like an efficient clergy of the Church of England established. 4502. What influence have the clergy of the Church of England at this time over the negro population of Jamaica?—I think the clergy of the Church of England are acquiring daily more influence over the negroes, and certainly they are co-operating with the proprietors in encouraging industry. I think there are other influences, whether we may call them church or religious, which have had the contrary tendency; I should say especially the Baptists. I think that the influence of the Wesleyans has been good, but that that of the Baptists has been exceedingly mischievous. 4.503. In encouraging insubordination in the island ?—The Baptist ministers in general are paid by the negroes, and it is obviously their interest to keep up the rate of wages, and in proportion to the contributions made by the negro he ranks in the estimation of the sect; they class the negroes, and the classification gives them rank, which has a great charm for them. In the middle of the crop the Baptists will fix a day for visitation, or for a sermon, or for a collection, or something of that kind, and take away all the negroes of the estate at a most important moment; instead of taking a Saturday or taking a Sunday, they will fix upon the most important day of the week, without considering the effect upon the neighbouring estates. I may state the following fact which is reported to me. I was exceediagly anxious to establish a school upon my estate, and I did so at a considerable expense, and immediately I left the estate emissaries were sent to the negro

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

negro village warning all the negroes not to send their children to our school, saying that our object was to make slaves of them again. 4504. What was the effect of that?—The effect was that children who had been sent to my school were taken away and sent back to the Baptist school; at the Baptist school they paid, but at our school they paid nothing; every child who went to our school was a loss to them, and consequently they deterred the children as much as possible from coming to our school. 4505. Are not the payments in the island for the maintenance of the Church very heavy ?—They are very considerable. 4506. What have you to say with respect to the disadvantage of absenteeism and the practicability of residence in the island ?—There is no doubt that the presence of a proprietor on his estate would be more or less beneficial to the estate ; hut in Jamaica and the West Indies generally, you must consider how far it is practicable. In many of the estates it would be perfectly impossible for any proprietor to live with his family; the estates in Jamaica are not like estates in England, where there are good houses upon them, but on estates of only 200 acres, and in an unhealthy situation, no family could reside. For instance, my estate on the south side of the island is so unhealthy, that all the white people living on it are constantly attacked by ague; that is the case with all except those who are accustomed, comparatively speaking, to the island. But there are a great number of proprietors residing in Jamaica whose estates are in much the same condition, I may say, as the estates of most of the absentees. I do not know any instances in which the mere presence of the proprietor has made a difference between the estate bearing a profit or a loss. As far as the effect of example upon the population, and so forth, nobody can doubt that the presence of the proprietor must be beneficial rather than otherwise ; but taking the creditor and debtor side of the account, I am not aware that the actual residence of the proprietor has saved any estate as yet, and there are a great number of residents in Jamaica. 4507. What have you to say to the success of white immigrants into Jamaica, Germans and Portuguese ?—When there was a difficulty in obtaining Africans I thought that it would be very advantageous to us if we encouraged white immigrants to the West Indies, and I thought that there were various situations in the island of Jamaica and the West India islands generally where a white population could do remarkably well ; that is, in the mountains, where provisions grow very abundantly. I thought a white population might be able to supply the markets, and by supplying the markets and living in a climate not genial to the negro, the negro would be driven down to the field, and the white population would monopolize the supply of the markets, and in that way we might obtain probably the same results as if we had a black population imported. I tried myself the importation of whites; I imported some Portuguese, and I have received not only from my own agent, but from others who have observed the working of them, accounts which have been exceedingly favourable, not only in respect of the conduct of the Portuguese, but the effect upon the negro population. I am told that this year, since the Portuguese have been on the estates, there has been more disposition on the part of the negroes to work than ever there was before since emancipation. 4508. The industry of the Portuguese has encouraged the blacks to work ?— Yes; but up to this moment we have had all sorts of obstacles put in the way of our importing a white population; we have had difficulties about contracts; we were not to be allowed to make a contract with the parties till after their arrival in the island, and of course nobody would introduce immigrants if he were not allowed to make contracts with them ; and if, after having incurred all the expense of bringing them to the island, he had no hold whatever over them. 4509. You say that those Portuguese have answered very well with you ?— Yes, hitherto they have. 4510. How have they maintained their health?—Not well; they arrived under peculiar disadvantages. At the time I was in the island I was informed that there was no possibility of obtaining Portuguese, because they were more disposed to go to Trinidad and to other islands where their own countrymen were; I had therefore given up all hope of obtaining any, and when they arrived they were established in buildings near the works instead of being established in houses in the particular situation where I intended them to be located, and where they are now building houses for them ; but the situation in which they were to 0.32. "be c 2

409 Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

be located was a very favourable one: it has been tried by the troops, and has been found to be exceedingly healthy. 4511. You have 45 Portuguese?—Yes. 1848. 4512. Have there been any trials of strength between the Portuguese and negroes in the island at work ?—My Portuguese on a trial have beaten the negroes at work. 4513. Notwithstanding the heat of the weather ?—Yes. 4514. Is that because they are more skilful, or because they can really do a better day's work?—That is difficult to say, but I suppose they have more perseverance and energy. 4515. Mr. Goulburn.] Do they live upon better food than the negroes? — They do. 4516. Chairman.] And yet the negroes live now very well?—I presume the. Portuguese live better, because they live partly upon rations given to them at my expense. 4517. Is it your opinion that if all the restrictions which now exist were taken oft, Europeans would immigrate to the West India islands?—I think it would be extremely advantageous to us if we could import white people from the south of Europe ; Maltese, Genoese, and people from the Canary Islands. 4518. Whenever you have attempted to do anything of the kind, Government has always stepped in and opposed itself to such measures ?—I never attempted it myself, but on former occasions I heard from persons who took measures for the importation of white people, that a great objection was made by the Colonial Office to the introduction of any immigrants whatever, except free Africans. 4519. There is a German establishment, is there not, at Seaford Town, which is a new settlement situate upon part of your estate?—Yes ; there was an arrangement made to introduce white people, and I think there were 500 or 600 people imported with a view to try the experiment. On their arrival nothing was prepared for them ; they were turned out upon this spot; there were no houses, and there was nobody to interpret to them ; and it was intended that this village should heconnected with the police-station ; but a few months after the police-station was abandoned, and all those people were abandoned also ; they had no medical attendant, and they suffered extremely, and yet after struggling on for some time they did remarkably well and made a little money, and some of them went over to America, and when I was upon the island I found about 150 still remaining there doing remarkably well, and extremely happy and cheerful, having overcome all the difficulties that they had to contend with. I believe they were selected from a very low class of the German population, and none of them could speak a word of English. 4520. What have you to say upon the agricultural improvements in Jamaica, those already made and those making; those which are practical and those which are theoretical; what improvements of which the island is susceptible, have there been made in the island generally, or upon your estates?—Generally speaking,, where the plough could be used it has been used, and various kinds of ploughs ; as far as my observation went very great improvements had taken place, and there was every disposition to do everything that was practicable, but it is impossible for a person living in England to say what the course of agriculture should be in Jamaica; for instance, on my estates there are many fields in which the plough could not be used, because the ground is so rocky that when the point of the. plough touches the rock it snaps in an instant. 4521. You have no alternative there but to work with either the spade or the hoe?—No. I myself had the experiment tried of ploughing with less than 12 oxen attached to the plough ; it was very laborious work. I made them take off four oxen to try the plough with eight fine oxen, and I saw them brought to a regular stand-still by the stiffness of the soil. I then had a lighter plough tried. It was a very nice plough that I had myself taken out, and I was determined to see a fair trial of this plough. Directly the oxen were yoked to it, they walked away, and an instant after it flew up in the air, and snapped in two, in consequence of having met with a rock. I mention this as one of the difficulties we have to contend with, which persons are not aware of in this country. 4322. With respect to underdrawing, what is your opinion upon that?—I think it would be perfectly absurd to attempt underdraining in Jamaica; the only way is to have an open drain. I have seen instances in Portugal in which watercourses have been completely choked up in the course of a few months ; the roots. penetrate

Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden. 28 February

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 13

411

penetrate the tile, form a substance like a. fox's tail, and completely choke up Right Hon. Lord the drain; the vegetation is so rapid, that it is perfectly absurd to attempt tile- Howard de Wulden. draining. 28 February 1848. 4523. Then when Lord Grey is of opinion that nothing is required in Jamaica but the outlay of greater capital in the process of tile-draining, the fact is that his Lordship has not taken those practical difficulties into his consideration ?— I judge from my own experience, from what I have seen in Jamaica, and what I have seen in other countries; and as far as my observation goes, I conceive that those nominal resources afford us a very poor prospect indeed. 4524. Is there not another objection to tile-draining in Jamaica, which is this, that the floods come down so heavily, that no tile-draining could carry off the water?—It is quite out of the question. 4525. You require something more like a canal to carry off the flood of ater ? —You require a large open drain. 4526. Do you know the number of inches of water that falls in a month ?—No, I do not. 4527. Is it not something like five or six times the quantity of rain that falls in England in a month ?—It must be a great deal more than that; it comes down in torrents. 4528. And when those, floods come down they would block up a tile-drain ?— They would. 4529. Mr. M. Gibson.'] Who made the proposition first with regard to tiledrainage, Lord Grey or the planters ?—My impression was, that it was held out to us as a resource; but whether by Lord Elgin, or by Lord Grey, or any other parties who were giving us advice, I cannot tell, but I have always understood it was a piece of advice given to us. 4530. Sir E. Buxton.] Is it not the fact that the planters have applied to Government for a loan to drain their land?—Yes, to drain their land; but not to tile-drain it. I should be glad myself of a loan to enable me to drain my estate. It would be most useful if Government would advance a loan for the purpose, hut not for tile-drainage; a good deal might be done by draining, but it depends what kind of drainage it is. 4531. Chairman.] In Jamaica there are a great number of fens, which you call lagoons, which consist of rich alluvial soil, and if loans could be made to a number of planters together, drainages upon a large scale might be effected, by cutting great open drains through those various properties, just as improvements of that kind have been carried out in the fens of this country ?—There is no doubt of it; in illustration, I may state that there is a district between Kingston and Spanish Town where a great deal of the finest land possible could be brought into cultivation, by making a cut from Springheads to the River Cobre, but in order to do that, it would be necessary to have a loan from the Government. There was an estimate made of that work which amounted to about 4,000 l.; it would go through three estates; two of them would not be in a situation to afford security for a loan to any parties except the Government, in consequence of having settlements charged upon them, and so forth. 4532. I apprehend in the present condition of the estates in Jamaica, the fall in the price of produce makes it entirely out of the question raising any money in England upon the security of those estates ?—I believe it would be very difficult indeed. But I should think that the expense of this drain to the estates would be repaid in a year or two. 4533. T hat is if the money could be borrowed?—Exactly. 4534. But there is no possibility of borrowing the money in the English moneymarket?—There would be a practical difficulty in raising a sum of money conjointly from the three estates, because the three estates would be under different titles and different settlements; but if Government would advance the money, they would come in as first creditor, and it would enable the estates to carry out those works which it is impossible for them to do now; the Government advanced money for the restoration of the works of estates after the rebellion, taking the first security from the estates. 4535. Mr. Goulburn.] That would apply to works of irrigation as well as works of drainage?—Certainly, and to tramways. 4536. Chairman.] Have you not some examples that you can quote of great benefits that might be conferred upon large districts of sugar plantations, if money could be advanced to carry out a tramway?—Yes. There was a rough estimate 0.32. c 3 made

made of a tramway of eight miles ; it was considered that it would cost about 15,0001., and 16 sugar estates would be benefited by it, and of course all those estates would be happy to contribute towards making this tramway ; but from 1848. one estate being in Chancery, another in the hands of mortgagees, and another in the hands of merchants, or assigned over, it is very difficult to give security to any person who would be ready to lend the sum of money required. 4537. You would propose that the Government in such a case should lend the money, and should take the first security on the estate?—Yes ; sending a person to the spot to ascertain whether the plan was likely to be beneficial to the estates ; the calculation is easily made. There is so much produce on an average to be conveyed from the estates ; every attorney of an estate knows what the cost of conveyance of produce is at present, and he can compare that with what the cost would be if the tramwav were made, and calculate the balance. 4538. What mechanical improvements do the sugar plantations in Jamaica admit of in the way of water-mills, vacuum-pans, and so on ?—I think that the resources are comparatively small. The idea of central factories has been entertained a great deal, but central factories are not practicable in many parts of Jamaica, or I should say, in general. There are localities where central factories might do well, such as near rivers, but in mountainous districts it would be impossible to have central factories, the distance you would have to carry the cane would be so great that it would more than counterbalance any economy in establishing large central works. 4539. The fact is, is it not, that the canes are so heavy that a planter who had to carry his canes any distance to a mill would be ruined by the cost of carriage? —I think in most instances it would be impracticable in Jamaica to establish central factories. In general the works have been established in the particular positions on the estates most favourable for the conveyance of the produce to the mill, generally at the foot of a hill, in order that they may have as little labour as possible; if you have to throw several estates together, you have not the same advantage of locality. I presume also that, for central factories, it would be contemplated to establish steam power; now, on many estates you have the power of water, and there you are much better off with water than you would be in sending your canes to a distance to a central factory, and you can work your estate more economically with water power than you could at a central factory with steam power at a considerable distance. 4540. We have had it in evidence before that it takes from 10 to 15 tons of sugar-cane to make one ton of sugar ; do you confirm that opinion ?—The quantity of canes it takes to make a ton of sugar is so extremely various that it is very difficult to state what it would be on the average. 4541. Ten tons is the minimum?—I never heard of the weight of canes being taken into calculation; we reckon there by gallons of juice; but to show how difficult it is to draw anything like a correct average of that kind, I may observe that on my estate, on the south side of the island, last year it took 3,000 gallons of juice to make a hogshead of sugar. 4542. Mr. Miles.] In what time was that?—In the months of February and March ; on my estate, on the north side of the island, it took only 1,500 gallons, and yet the sugar made from 3,000 gallons was much superior to that made from the 1,500 gallons. 4543. Chairman.'] The object of my inquiry was to get at the cost of the carriage of the canes ; because if the proportion that the cane bears to the sugar is something like 15 or 20 to 1, it is quite clear that it would add ruinously to the cost of the manufacture of sugar if you had to carry the cane any great distance ?—Certainly, there can be no doubt about that; the carriage of the canes is a very important feature in the expense of an estate ; you require a great number of carts for instance, and six oxen to a cart. 4544. We have all heard a great deal of Mr. Price's improvements; I believe you were a witness to the fact that his steam engine lay for a great number of months somewhere in the neighbourhood of Kingston ?—I certainly heard of Mr. Price; Lord Elgin held him forth as a pattern for Jamaica planters, and on arriving in the island of Jamaica I inquired about Mr. Price, and I heard that his estate had completely failed and that all his schemes had fallen to the ground. 4545. Did you see the machinery that he had employed?—I saw it lying about. 4546. How

Right Hon. Lord

Howard de Walden. 28 February

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

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413

4546. Flow long was the machinery lying there?—Several months. I do not Right Hon. Lord Howard de Walden. know how long it had been there ; he had lost the crop. 4547. Sir E. Buxton.'] Was not that owing to some accidental breakage in the 28 February 1848. machinery, that might have happened to any one ?—I cannot speak to that of my hearsay from persons who saw it, but it was own knowledge; it is only from ascribed to a miscalculation on his part. But when you are told that we have resources, and that you ought to cultivate your estate like Mr. Price's, you naturally inquire what Mr. Price has done, and you are told that he has failed entirely, and that his estate has gone into debt; and you then inquire why that is, and you learn that his machinery has failed. If you employ machinery which is difficult to mend, you risk the ruin of your estate ; if you send out machinery to Jamaica that is difficult to mend, and you have nobody in the island who can mend it, if a screw or a bolt gets wrong, you perhaps lose the whole crop. In illustration, I may mention a fact: I went to an estate in Barbadoes, and saw a vacuum pan which had been put up there ; the gentleman had had the good sense not to destroy any part of his old works; he put the vacuum pan in addition to them, and before the fifth day the engine broke ; he tried to get it mended at the place, but he was obliged to send it to Demerara, and he lost the use of this vacuum pan during the whole time of the crop. In my opinion we have not yet arrived at a state to be able to turn resources like those to account. 4,748. But is not the vacuum pan used in Jamaica, and also the slave colonies of Spain ?—I believe very much so. 4549. So that, on the whole, it is an advantage, though not so great an advantage as is supposed here?—When I went out to Jamaica, I heard a great deal of the vacuum pan; people held out to me the vacuum pan as a great resource for increasing the produce of an estate, and improving the quality of the sugar, and so forth. I consulted many persons, and among others I went to a very great sugar-refiner here. Fie showed me over his establishment, and gave me all the particulars of its working; and I afterwards asked his advice as to putting up a vacuum pan in Jamaica, and he said, " It is a question upon which I can hardly give you advice, because I know nothing of Jamaica; but I will tell you one thing, which is, that in my own establishment I have but one Englishman. I found it necessary to have Germans, in order to ensure sufficient attention being paid to the working of the vacuum pan. You can judge whether you can trust the negroes better than I can Englishmen." That was his opinion of the working of the vacuum pan even in England. 4550. Mr. Goulburn.] Is it in your Lordship's recollection that, in consequence of the difficulty of repairing steam machinery, some of the estates returned again to windmills?-—No, I have never heard of a case of that kind. 4551. Chairman.] Mr. Price's estate entirely stopped work in consequence of the failure of his mill?—Yes ; it was a very fine and large mill; being so large and fine a mill, in all probability there was nobody in the island competent to mend it when it was out of repair. In reference to improvements in the manufacture of sugar, while 1 was in the island there were two persons who thought they had discovered a mode of clarifying the juice, which was to improve the quality of the sugar, as also to increase the quantity, and they were very sanguine as to the result; the juice was apparently clear, but I have since been informed that it has totally failed practically, and that it has not really improved the quality of the sugar. I was also warned by parties, before I went out, not to risk the quantity of sugar I was making under the old method, for the sake of a vacuum pan, they thinking that the public would not take to the vacuum-pan sugar; and I have since been informed that the vacuum-pan sugar has not answered, and that it does not repay the outlay for the pan. 4552. Can you state what are the various expenses of the island, and what expenses might be reduced?—I consider that all our expenses in Jamaica are infinitely too high, and that the expenses of the whole establishment in Jamaica ought to he reduced. 4773. Mr. Goulburn.] Do you mean the establishment of the island, or the establishment on particular estates?—The establishment of the island. 4774. Chairman.] You would begin with the Governor, and go down to the lowest custom-house officer; is that so ?—I think that the salaries of all the officers are infinitely too high. 4755. That is in reference to the reduced circumstances of the island ?—Yes, because they have to he paid for by the planters. 0.32. c 4 4550-

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

4556. Do you know what the island expenses amount to?—No, I have not the amount; all that is contained in the budget of the year. I have not got that 28 February 1848. with me. 4557. Mr. Goulburn.] Do you happen to know the amount of taxes paid upon those estates of yours, both parochial and Government; I have not the figures with me. 4558. Chairman.] But the general expenses of the establishment of the. island amount to about half a million a year, do they not ?—I am not sure what the total amount is. 4559. Is it your opinion that if a recommendation should go out from this country to reduce the annual charge of all official persons 25 or 30 per cent., it would go a long way towards reducing the wages of the way labourers, attornies, overseers, and so forth ?—No doubt it would ; the question of a general reduction has been taken into consideration by the Assembly frequently. When I was in the island there were a great number of judicious reductions proposed, but the Bill was lost, I believe mainly in consequence of its touching the salaries of many influential persons in the island. 4560. Mr. Goulburn.] Has not a great burden been created by the improvements that have been of late years introduced in reference to police regulations, and also in reference to gaols?—The charges are heavy, and many of them quite disproportionate to the resources of the island. I should say that all the machinery which was established during the apprenticeships is superfluous now; for instance, the chairmen of quarter sessions and the stipendiary magistrates. I think that an effective police, and giving the Governor of Jamaica greater power with reference to the appointments, would be a much more advantageous thing for the island than that those appointments should be made from home. I think you have now a class of planters and others from whom you could select proper persons for those offices, and that it would be more suitable and have more effect upon the negro population to see persons of that class appointed to those situations than to have persons sent out from England; the mere fact of stipendiary magistrates being sent out from England produces a bad effect upon the population, and makes them think that it is necessary to have some protection against the proprietors. 4561. Chairman.] How many Coolie superintendents have you in Jamaica ?— I do not know; the whole system of Coolie immigration was very ill managed. 4562. Those Coolie superintendents have very high salaries; but they cannot speak the language of the negroes, and therefore they are of little use ?—They are not of much use. 4563. Are there more Coolies than superintendents?—Certainly; one of the causes of the Coolie immigration not succeeding, I think, was the want of interpreters, and the inability of making known what the people were to do, though we have superintendents of Coolies who are receiving salaries. I wish to confine anything I say to what I know myself; I will illustrate what I have said by what happened to myself. When those Coolies were sent to the island we were tied down by very strict regulations, which we found on experience to work very badly ; we were obliged to give the Coolies rations whether they worked or not, and the consequence was that they were always pretending to be ill, and they were supported just the same as if they were working; at last, in consequence of a representation made to the Government, it was deckled that the Coolies were only to be paid when they did a day's work, and orders were sent to the superintendents of the Coolies to explain this to them. I happened to go down to my works the day the superintendent of Coolies appeared there, to explain to them the new contract, and I saw him pacing backwards and forwards before the overseer's house in great distress, not able to make the people understand the new contract; the consequence of that was that when we tried to carry out the new contract, the Coolies were dissatisfied, and went to seek stipendiary magistrates in different parts of the district, and we lost their services during the time they were dissatisfied. All that was the result of there being nobody to explain to them that this contract was a contract sanctioned by Government, and not forced upon them by the planters. 4564. Those superintendents have 300 I. a year apiece ?—Yes, I believe something of that kind ; but all that appears in the" budget. 4565. Are those expenses provided out of the island resources ?—Yes. 4566. With respect to stipendiary magistrates, do you believe that there is any need of stipendiary magistrates?—No; I conceive, on the contrary, we ought not to Right Hon. Lord

Howardde Walden.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 17

415

to have stipendiary magistrates. The spirit in which they were originally adopted Right Hon. Lord was a mischievous one, as between the planter and the negro, because they were Howard de Walden. appointed as protectors of the negro against the planter during the apprenticeship, which was a modified slavery; but now the negro is perfectly independent, and 28 February 1848. you wish to place him in the position of a tenant or a peasant in this country towards the proprietor ; it is very mischievous, having that kind of magistrate to step in between the peasant and the landlord. 4567. They get 3001, a year, do not they ?—They are well paid ; the chairman of quarter sessions is very highly paid ; I think he has about 1,500 /.; they are very highly paid. 4568. Is that in the gift of the Colonial Office?—I believe they are all. 4569. How many chairmen of quarter sessions are there?—I think there are six chairmen of quarter sessions. I am not aware whether they are paid by Government at home. 4570. Would there be any more difficulty in Jamaica in finding chairmen of quarter sessions who would give their services gratis, than there is in England ? —It is difficult to say who would give their services absolutely gratis. In many instances I should think they would not, but they would give their services at a much lower rate than the chairmen of quarter sessions receive now. 4571. There is no indisposition among the resident gentlemen of Jamaica to give their services as magistrates without payment, is there ?—On the contrary, they are extremely ready to act as magistrates; there is a very numerous class of magistrates in every district; and, as far as my experience goes, highly respectable. 4572. Have you been in Cuba since you left Jamaica ?—I came home by Cuba. 4573. Did you see any of the sugar plantations in Cuba?—Yes ; I saw one of the best sugar estates in the island ; at least it was pointed out to me as one of the best in the island. 4574. What was the condition of the slaves upon that plantation ?—The appearance of the slaves was very different from that of the negro in our colonies; they did not work with any cheerfulness, but then they worked, I believe, 18 or 20 hours a day, whereas ours work about six or seven hours. 4575. What proportion of women did there appear to be on those estates in Cuba?—I believe upon that estate there were no women. 4576. Do you know how many men there were?—I cannot say certainly; there were 300 or 400 I believe upon it, but it is a thing of perfect notoriety that upon a great many estates in Cuba they do not admit a woman; they consider that upon a calculation of economy the best thing is to work out the whole energies of a negro in the cultivation or manufacture of sugar, and not to allow of any distraction of any kind from his work. 4577. Are the overseers obliged to go armed?—Yes, I believe invariably; the " mayoral " (who represents the " overseer " in Jamaica) had his cutlass and his dagger, and he had three bloodhounds at his heels close by him, and I understand that it was the custom throughout the whole island, that no white man belonging to an estate would go anywhere unarmed; they would not go on foot to any distance ; but on horseback they always have their pistols besides. 4578. Are the slaves locked up at night?—I do not know how that is; I should think not; I suppose they have huts to live in. 4579. you hear that suicides were very common among the slaves?—I believe they are very common, but particularly among that class of negroes called emancipados, who are much worse treated than the absolute slave; the emancipados are those slaves who have been captured by our cruisers and liberated by the sentence of the Slave Trade Commission, who ought to have been apprenticed to humane masters during the time necessary to qualify them to become peasants and learn the language of the island. 4580. The governor gets a fee for letting them out, does not he?—Such is the practice. 4581. Did you understand when you were in the island, that the slave trade was still being carried on?—It was denied by some persons ; but on pushing inquiries, a very intelligent merchant made this remark to me, " It is difficult to specify instances in which slaves have been landed in the island; but when you " know that the black population is increasing, and that the number of men to 0.32. D " women

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

" women is more than 100 to one, it is difficult to account for their increase in " any other way than by the importation of fresh slaves." 4582. Was the island of Cuba in a state of great prosperity when you were 1848. there ; were the planters in good spirits?—The planters were in very great spirits ; they were hiring negroes from the coffee estates; there had been a hurricane in the spring, and they were hiring the slaves from the coffee plantations at the rate of 16 dollars a month ; the price that the sugar planter obtains is such as to induce him to pay those high wages for the work of the slaves from the coffee plantations. 4583. Was not Havannah illuminated when the news of the passing of the Bill of 1846 arrived?—I am not aware. 4584. You were not there at the timer—No. 4585. What do you conceive will be the operation upon the island of Jamaica, upon its state of society, its yearly revenue, and its political and military prospects, if this depreciation of the price of their produce should continue ?—Under the present depreciation of produce I think it is perfectly impossible that the cultivation of the sugar estates can go on ; the effect of throwing those sugar estates out of cultivation will be entirely to destroy the commerce of the island; if there is no commerce, and the estates afford no profits, there will be no resources from which to pay any of the establishments of the island. I do not know how any of the establishments can be paid, or how the expenses of the Government can be paid ; the island possessing no article of export bu.t sugar and rum. 4586. What would become of the black population itself?—There being no manufactories in Jamaica, they will not have the means of earning any money with which to buy the necessaries of life ; the consequence is, that their condition must become degraded; they must relapse into the same state that the squatter is in at present. 4587. Do you apprehend any disturbance arising among the negro population? — I think the negro population, if they had no means of earning wages, would, in all probability, become extremely turbulent. 4588. What means are there in the island of quieting the population?—The means now would be very small ; we have a very small body of white troops; there is a black regiment, but the military force in Jamaica is very small now. 4589. What would be the feeling prevailing towards this country?—I think, when I was in Jamaica, they were becoming exceedingly exasperated at the disregard evinced to their general interests ; that is, of course, a very delicate subject to speak on. 4590. Mr. Miles.] With regard to the last year's increase upon your estate, the supplies increased between 600 l. and 700 ; was that in consequence of the number of Coolies you had upon your estate ?—It was partly in consequence of the Coolies, and partly from the expense of the introduction of Portuguese immigrants. 4591. Have you made any calculation as to what price you think you could pay upon your estates for your labour, so as to compete with the slave-grown sugar?—I could not state very precisely what would be the rate; the rate must vary very much ; but my impression when in the island, at the time previous to the great fall in prices, was that, roughly calculating, 1 s. would have afforded a fair profit; upon that occasion 1 s. was considered very good wages for a negro, considering his expenses. 4592. Supposing there is no alteration made in the Bill of 1846, would it be your intention to go on with the cultivation of your estates ; should you plant any more canes?—What I may do is difficult for me to say, because my estate is not entirely under my own control; that is to say, there are persons who have charges upon the estate; hut I will exemplify the situation in which I find myself now by what has occurred to me within the last few days in respect to a moiety of the estate which belongs to my cousin ; lie has given me notice that he does not mean to pay one single sixpence in return for any bill drawn upon him. This morning bills were presented to me to accept on the part of the estate. They were bills for 300 I. which he refused to accept, saying he would rather throw up the estate and let it fetch anything it would, though lie was told that the moiety of the estate thrown into the market would sell for nothing. 4593. Do you suppose that a protection of 10 s. would be sufficient to induce him to go on with the cultivation of that estate?—I think it would be. My own opinion is that 10 s. would save us. I think an important thing is to give us

Right Hon. Lord

Howard, de Walden. 28 February

time

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time to make all those improvements that we have to make, and also to bring Right Hon. Lord about a more industrious feeling on the part of the population. My estate has Howard de Walden. been progressively improving during the last three years, and I have been making 1848 every exertion to extend the cultivation of that estate, and improve the con- 28 February dition of the population. I have established a school on the estate; I have paid a medical man to attend the population on the estate. We have subscribed for a church, and the church is now building. A clergyman has been established there, and everything appeared to promise well when I was in the island; but the result of the fall in prices has been completely to absorb the proceeds of the estate for the last crop. Therefore it is a matter for grave consideration for me whether, in the event of a bad crop next year, I should not throw it up at once. I conceive, that at the present moment, it would be much better worth my while to throw up my estate, and to continue the pen, because that would average 1,200/. or 1,500/. a year, whereas the sugar estate absorbs the produce of the pen; but family considerations make me contribute the proceeds of my pen towards the sugar estate, because there are charges upon the sugar estate distinct from the pen, which would cause great distress to persons who are dependent upon it. 4594. Do you think that your estates are above the average of the Jamaica estates, or may they lie taken as a fair sample?—I am afraid they are very much above the average. 4595. Are they generally considered so in the island?—I believe so; I believe they are peculiarly advantageously situated. 459C. Mr. Gold burn.] Is the best land in Jamaica equal in cultivatable power to the land in Cuba?—The cultivation of land in Jamaica is very various. I had a calculation made as to the expense of cultivating an acre of canes upon the two estates, and I have got the returns here. On the Caymanas estate, cultivating an old-established field, per acre, for planting the cane, is 7/. 9s. 9d.; cultivating a lagoon field, 11 l. 10s.; cultivating for a ratoon, from an old-established field, 1/. 12s.; cultivating for a ratoon, 3/. 16s.; but the produce is very different. The cultivating for a ratoon, in an old-established field, will produce "from three quarters to one hogshead an acre ; the ratoon from one and a half to two hogsheads. At the Montpelier estate it is calculated at 9/. lbs. 3d., and there are the details of the expense. [Thefollowing Statements were delivered in by Ids Lordship:]

CAYMANAS CANE CULTIVATION.

Cultivating Old Established Field, I Acre for a Plant:

£. s.

Cultivating Lagoon Field, I Acre for a Plant:

£. s.

Fallow ploughing an acre .... Cane hole ploughing Gathering tops and cutting Planting Cleaning and supplying, G times Manuring and barking Digging and carting 00 loads manure, 4 J d. - ~ . Booting, cleaning, &c.

- 12 - 8 - - 10 - 8 2 1 1 3 1 8

6 3 -

Billing bushes, rushes, and burning, &c. Carrying off wood or timber Levelling land and digging roots Digging trenches, &c. Cross trenching, &c. • Cleaning, moulding, &c. 8 times Trashing and bedding, 0 times Cutting -------

- 16 - 8 - 8 1 10 - 8 4 3 1 -

11 10

Return per acre, if seasonable, 1 £ hhds. 2 hhds.

Cultivating for a Ratoon : Turning trash and moulding 2 cleanings and booting Return per acre, I to 1 hhd.

0.32.

£.

£. s.

Cultivating for a Ratoon :

- 8 - 14 - 10

Turning trash, moulding, &c. 3 cleanings, at 8 & Trashings and cutting

1 12

D 2

Return per acre, 2 hhds.

Return, per acre, 1 \ to 2 hhds.

£.

£. s. d. 12 4

3 10

1 2

£.

EXPENSES

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

20 Right Hon. Lord

Howard de Walden. EXPENSES

of an Acre of Canes, Montpelier Estate, St. James's.

28 February 1848.

£. Cleaning Land

Penning, and Grass-cutters and Mulemen, per day

4 £

2 14

4 1/2

Lining

Planting

------------

Weeding, three times ---------Trashing, twice

- 13 2

7 1/2

-10 £

Cutting, at 1 d. per chain Carting

s. d.

Digging holes, at 2 s. per 100 --

---------

- 13

9 16

£.

4,597. Is the quality of the land in Jamaica equal to that in Cuba ?—I believe in many parts of Jamaica the land is as good, but I believe that in Cuba they have very great advantage in saving the expense of trashing and weeding; that diminishes the expense of the cultivation of the cane very much indeed, and then I believe in Cuba the estates are generally ratooning estates ; so that when once the plant is established you go on at the rate of 2 I. per acre, instead of, as with us, 7/. or SI. an acre. 4598. Ratooning only lasts a certain number of years in Cuba, does it; they are obliged to replant regularly —At times they last eight or nine years, at least. 4599. How many years do they last in Jamaica?—Six years ; I know that in South America an English gentleman, who was a fellow-passe nger with me, told me he had an estate which had ratooned already 22 years. 4600. Have ever seen a beet-root sugar manufactory on the Continent ?— Never. 4601. You do not know the process by which they extract that large quantity of sugar from the beet-root?—Not from my own knowledge; I believe it is very much like the process from the sugar cane. 4602. Is not it the case that we very imperfectly extract the sugar from the cane in Jamaica by our process?—In certain instances perhaps that is the case, but I think it depends very much upon the season, very much upon the power of your mill, and very much upon the time at which the cane is cut; I believe if you cut the cane at the proper time, the produce will be nearly double to what it would be if it were cut very early or very late; and when you have a very large cane-field which is ripening about the same time, it is impossible to bring it all to the mill in the best possible state. 4603. The deficiency of labour is particularly felt under those circumstances ? —Very much so. The quantity of cattle which would be required to bring it all to the mill at the same time would be enormous, even if the mill were of sufficient power to take it off; then, if you had to take it off altogether, you must have a mill representing a capital of four or five times a greater amount than it would pay for. 4604. Night-work had entirely ceased even some time prev ious to the emancipation, had not it?—Sometimes the negroes will work at night towards the end of the week, to grind the cane already cut, when they are in a good humour, and to boil the sugar juice in the coppers, but otherwise they do not like night-work; but when they do work at night it is always a separate gang. 4605. Would night-work be an improvement?—Very much so. 4606. Sir E. Buxton.] Are your estates situated in a dry part of the island ? —One is in a dry part and one is not; that one in a dry part of the island is on the edge of a lagoon, and there is part of (he cane-field which is not affected by drought, where it would be very desirable to be able to drain by cuts or canals. 4607. You

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4607. You are well situated with respect to shipping, are not your—Ex- Right Hon. Lord tremely well situated; there is a wharf belonging to the estate; the estate is Howard de Waldem. about eight miles from the wharf. 28 February 1848. 4608. Do you pay a different rate of wages in crop time and out of crop time?—-No; the rate of day wages is the same, but a laborious negro can earn a good deal more at the planting season and during crop time than at other times ; for instance, the gang which makes the cane-holes have 2 s. a day, six or seven hours ; the gang which cuts the plant and heavy ratoons will also earn 2 s. a day ; I reduced the rate for light ratoons 25 per cent., but those who cut and plant the canes carried their point of maintaining the same rate of wages. 4609. Do you charge your people any rent?—Yes; that is deducted from their wages. 4610. The general complaint that you have arises from the labour not being continuous ?--Yes ; and not having the command of labour, especially at the planting season. 4611. Can you tell the Committee any methods by which labour may he made more continuous and more plentiful, without introducing slavery, or anything approaching to it, into the colonies?—The introduction of additional hands, also the reduction of duties upon all articles of provisions, such as flour and rice, imported into the island, so as to render the people less dependent upon home-grown provisions. It is only within a few years that they have taken to use flour or rice, and they seem to like it very much. 4612. Would you impose any industrial law that would force labour more?— It would be exceedingly useful to us if such a thing were practicable. 4613. Could you recommend any law or enactment which, without being tyrannical towards the people, would effect the object which you have of making labour more continuous?—I think a direct tax upon the land of the freeholder would conduce to it, because the negro is very unwilling to pay money, and where there is a question of money contribution they will work for the purpose of obtaining the money. Also if you can substitute a taste for imported provisions, for instance, flour and rice, they would he obliged to earn money for the purpose of buying those provisions, and they must then have recourse to labour to obtain the money. Now, upon their provision grounds, if they have a good season, they grow enough to support themselves, and they have even a surplus to carry to market. 4614. You would impose a land-tax, then ?—Yes. 4615. Per acre?—Yes, per acre, according to the rated value, whatever it may be. 4616. You would have the same tax per acre upon all land?—Yes, upon all cultivated land. 4617. As to the importation of labourers, do you think that may be effected to a very great degree ?—I think so, to a very great degree. I think even the importation of white labourers could be effected to a very great extent. 4618. With good effect upon the colony?—With excellent effect upon the colony. I think the introduction of a white population is more important than the introduction of a black population in the existing state of the colony; the existing population are now so superior to any new Africans that can be imported that you might find it rather difficult to induce the existing negroes to work with them. 4619. You are not afraid of a white population suffering from the climate to I should say, taking such a degree as to make it injurious ?—Certainly not. Maltese, Genoese, and Spaniards, in many parts of Jamaica they would do remarkably well. I would not propose that they should work, for instance, by the seaside in Trelawny, nor in the lagoons near Spanish Town, though white people have worked there extremely well; there were a great number of Irish who were imported to work upon the railway between Spanish Town and Kingston, and they supported their work remarkably well; they surprised people very much, and the explanation given was, that they were all members of the temperance society, they drank no spirits; in general it is the drinking of spirits which causes so much disease to the white inhabitants. O

.32.

D 3

4620. Would

22 night Hon. Lord

Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

4620. Would not the effect of a large importation of labourers into the colony, so as to reduce the wages, be to make a great many of the present labourers leave the estates ?—I think not. I think they would become more dependent upon wages, and it would be more necessary for them to work to earn money. I think the whites would contribute to supply the market; and besides that, upon many estates the negroes do not like to leave their grounds; they become very much attached to them.

4621. A great many have left the estates, have not they ?—A great many have done so; I believe, in many instances, partly from being dissatisfied with the overseer, and partly from emulation among them to become freeholders; but upon an estate which is in my hands now, of which I am mortgagee in possession, when I went to visit it, on the north side of the island, in St. George's, many negroes, who had left the estate, came to ask permission to come back to the estate ; they said they regretted having gone into the mountain, and begged leave to return to the estate; they had worked out their grounds, and had had a bad season or two, and they had felt the want of wages. In all probability they had suffered from disease. I should think that was the more probable cause. When they are on the estate there is a man, who is called the black doctor, who is a sort of delegate of the physician of the district, to attend to them at quite a low rate; they set great value upon the advice of a physician, but they are very unwilling to pay for it. 4622. Mr. Goulbum.] On most estates medical aid is afforded by the proprietors, is it not ?—I do not know how that is now; I do not think it is so generally. It was not so on my estate till 1 went out; it used to be so. The negroes paid their black doctor, but I made an arrangement by which a good physician should attend them twice a week ; he was to come to. the overseer's house at particular hours to be consulted by anv of the tenantry upon the estate, and I supplied the medicines. 4623. Are there a great many vagrants in different parts of the island ? — I believe a vast number. 4624. There are settlements of vagrants, are not there, who have got possession of places in remote parts of the island ?—So I have understood; squatters they call them. 4625. Do you know anything of the state of that part of the population ?— I believe it is very wretched indeed. 4626. Sir E. Buxton.] Could anything be done to prevent vagrancy ?—There being a great quantity of uncultivated land, it is very difficult, unless you establish a very stringent law to require them to show their means of subsistence; because if a man does not do a day's work, and sells no provisions, he must steal. 4627. Do you think, with a large importation of labour, you could compete with slave colonies?—I think, with a great increase of the population, and having time to reduce all our expenses, with a reduction of taxation, and a reduction of wages, and of the price of provisions, we might possibly compete with Cuba; but I do not think we could compete with Brazil without protection. I conceive the expenses in Cuba are very much higher than those of Brazil. 4628. One great charge upon the taxation has been the importation of labourers, has not it ?—That has been a considerable item. 4629. Would you recommend that Government should continue that in Jamaica?—Yes, they should, certainly, rather than not have any importation at all; but it is a great burden to us. It becomes very questionable whether it will be possible to pay that charge without a protection to our produce. 4630. As the colonies are at present situated, do you imagine that the import of sugar from Jamaica will very much decrease ?—Very much indeed. 4631. Do you think the price of labour will fall from that circumstance ?— Probably in some degree. No doubt it will be at the expense of the utter ruin of a great portion of the estates. 4632. So that the other estates, which can hold on, will get their labour cheaper ?—To a certain extent. 4633. Mr. Goulbum.] Do you practically know whether, in the event of abandonment of an estate, the negroes go to the other estates, or do they go to a state

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421

state of vagrancy?—Much depends upon the locality, but I should think many Right Hen. Lord Howard de Walden. would go to other estates. 4634. SirE. Buxton.] What is the size of the cane-holes on your estates; there •28 February 1848. is a great difference, is not there, in the size of the cane-holes?—I am not sure what is the size. 4635. How many hours are your people engaged in boiling sugar in crop-time ? —They would work 1 2 or 14 hours in the boiling-house, 4636. And then they get higher pay ?—Yes ; some of them are paid partly by the job, by what they call syphons; the number of syphons which are boiled off"; a syphon would contain 500 gallons, and according to the number of syphons that are boiled off'they receive pay ; and the mill people also receive according to the quantity of juice that is produced. 4637. You have as much task-work as you can? —I have. 4638. Mr. Goutturn.] The great difficulty is to command the attention of the negroes, is not it.?—That is a very great difficulty. 4639. There is some delicacy in boiling and preparing the sugar, and it is very difficult to be sure that the negro will attend to it?—It is extremely difficult ; I tried an experiment as to a particular mode of clarifying the sugar; it was two or three days before I could get it perfectly done, though I was myself upon the spot standing by, and I saw the mixture put into buckets; it was explained at what time it was to be put in, but notwithstanding that, all went wrong. 4640. Mr. M. Gibson.] Are you to be understood that you consider the present price of sugar inadequate to replace the cost of production upon the great majority of estates in Jamaica?—I should say so entirely. 4641. You would recommend that some steps should be taken by the Legislature to raise that price?—Certainly. 4642. To what extent would you recommend that that addition to the price should he made?—One cannot form a calculation merely with reference to one's own individual position; but as far as I can judge, I should say that it would be necessary at least to have a protection of 10 s. upon the present prices. 4643. The object is of course to raise the price ; if the protection should fail in accomplishing that object, of course it would be of no use to you?—Certainly not; but there is another way of doing it: supposing the price to the consumer to remain as it is now, and the duty to be reduced, that would enable us to carry on the cultivation of our estates. 4644. Do you mean the duty on colonial sugar only?—Yes; it would not raise the price to the public, and it does not follow that it would he any great loss to the revenue. 4645. Have you given in what you conceive to be tbe average cost of the production of sugar at the present time?—I gave what was the result of the increased crop, and the reduction of wages, and so on, upon my estate in St. James's, which was that from l. os. to d. per cwt. the expense to the estate was reduced to 11 s.; but that I take as a set-off" against the gross proceeds of the estate. In consequence of the increased produce of the cane-field, the profits bore a greater proportion to the expenses than they had on the preceding year, therefore the cost per cwt. would be so much less, dividing the produce by the expense. 4646. Before there was this abundant crop, what did you consider to be the expense ?—£. 1 per cwt. 4647. Was that the cost in Jamaica?—Yes. 4648. What is the additional cost of bringing the sugar into the British market? —Six shillings or 7s. a cwt. Any merchant would have all the details at his fingers' ends; the freight varies very much; you are charged in some parts of the island 5 s. a cwt., and in other parts 45. 4649. I lave, you had a know ledge of these interests for seme considerable time ? —Yes. 4650. I find tit at it was stated before a Committee of the House of Commons in the year 1830, that at that time there was great distress, and that that distress had been existing for many years, and that unless something was done it would lead to the abandonment of the estates, and perhaps to some danger to public tranquility from the non-employment of the population; that was the case in 0.38. D4 1830,

24 Right Hon. Lord

Howard de Wilden. 28 February 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

1830, at a time when there was a very large protection, and also slave labour ?— That is very true; but at that time there was also an enormous duty, which checked the consumption. 4651. You think the height of the duty at that time checked the consumption ? —Partly ; the expenses of the estate were very great. 4652. It is to be found in a Report of that Committee, deduced from papers laid before it by the public offices, that the cost of bringing a cwt. of sugar to the English market was about 25 s. 6 d.; you state now that it is 27 s.; do you think that the difference in the cost between the present time and the time I have alluded to is sufficient to account for the present posture of affairs in Jamaica? —The cause of the present posture of affairs in Jamaica would be a very long story to enter into. 46;",3. The average price of sugar in bond is stated here at 23s. 8d., and the cost, as calculated by the West Indian planters, is about 24showing a loss to them at that time, and a reason for the great distress. I wish to call your attention to this, that there does not appear to me to be so much difference between the cost of production now and the cost of production then as to account for the very greatly increased complaints that have come from the West Indian colonies; can you throw any light upon that subject ?—No ; I did not know anything about the expenses at that time. I do not understand why those expenses should have been so great. 4654. You have no knowledge what the expenses were in the year 1830?—No; I know that the estates have been progressively going down. 4655. Probably within your recollection there never was a time when there were not some estates gaining money and others losing ?—I take for granted that must be the case; the seasons are so various upon the two sides of the island; on one side of the island they are now complaining of suffering from wet, and on the other there is unparalleled drought. 4656. Was not it always the case within your recollection, that some estates were yielding a profit, and other estates were carried on at a loss ?—I do not think, as far as I can make out, that any estate would have lost last year, if the same prices had been kept up to what we expected. In the month of February or March, when I was in the island, the prices were considered very fair; that was in the spring of last year; therefore it is just to presume that the difference of price has been the cause of all the distress under which we are at present labouring. This year there is that distinction as to the season, certainly; my estate on the north side is doing remarkably well, as far as the crop goes; it has never done better since emancipation, while on the other side the cane has been burnt out of the ground, and there will be a decided loss this year. in that particular case is attributable to the season ?—It will 4657. The los be attributable to the season ; but last year, if I had obtained good prices, instead of incurring a loss, I should have had a balance, which would have gone towards meeting the expense of this year; whereas, having a very fine crop last year, I had no balance to meet the reverse of a bad season this year. 4658. Have you any information that you can give the Committee as to the terms upon which monies are advanced by merchants to planters, to enable them to carry on their cultivation ?—I do not know practically myself; the rate of interest has always been calculated at six per cent. I have been paying six tier cent, upon mortgage. 4659. Do you think any alteration in the system under which advances are now made might lead to improvement in the colonies?—No doubt that would assist us very materially, and it would relieve the estates from heavy charges; if you could raise money at four per cent, or five per cent, it would be a great relief to those estates which are now paying six per cent. I am paying six per cent, for settlements upon the estates, the sum being represented by a mortgage, and the interest being the island rate of interest. If Government would lend us money at four per cent., it would be a very great relief. 4660. Is it within your knowledge that any great portion of the estates in Jamaica are heavily encumbered with mortgages ?—I should think the greater number from mortgages made in prosperous times, calculated according to what was conceived to be the fair return to the estates; settlements for widows and younger children, calculated fairly with reference to what was considered the average

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

423

average return of the estate. In proportion as the returns of the estate have been Right Hon Lord reduced those charges have accumulated ; sometimes they have not been paid off; Howard de Wa I den. then debts have accumulated, and they again bear interest at the rate of six per cent., which, of course, has absorbed the profits of the estate in many cases. 28 February 1848. When there is a fall in prices those heavy payments, being unaltered, must place the owners and parties interested in considerable difficulty ; those charges have been made absolute in general, without bearing reference to the proportion of the produce of the estate ; if they were merely dividends upon the estate it would not be so hard upon the planter. 4661. Has there been a decided want of capital, in your opinion, for some years past for carrying out improvements in cultivation in Jamaica?—I have always understood that there is difficulty in obtaining capital, except on rather high terms; but capital has been laid out in Jamaica with a view to the improvement of estates, certainly; a considerable capital has been laid out on many estates. I do not think that good estates have been in general stinted from the want of the outlay of capital. 4662. With respect to labour, you think the supply of labour at present inadequate ?—Yes. 4663. What sources do you think there are from which an adequate supply of suitable labour could be drawn ?—I have already expressed my opinion with respect to white labour; that is a point to which I attach great importance as to Jamaica. I am only speaking with respect to Jamaica, which is the only island upon which 1 can speak with anything like authority. 4664. The question rather relates to quantity than to quality ; do you think there is any source from which an adequate supply may be derived ?—I think you might obtain labourers from Genoa, from the Sardinian dominions, from Malta, from the Cape de Verde Islands, and from the Canaries, as well as from the coast of Africa, I have heard a great number of persons express a good opinion of the Chinese, but I know nothing about them myself. 4665. With regard to this particular year, in which, from abundance and so forth, the condition of your estate has been prosperous, and there has been a good profit, according to your statement, over the cost of production, did you state that the cost of production this last year was about lis. per cwt. ?—That is the rate which the cultivation of the sugar cost as compared with the general receipts of the estates. 4666. It cost, in fact, 11 s. a cwt. ?—Yes. 4667. The price of sugar in bond, before duty has been paid, has been something like 23 s. or 24 s. ?—Eleven shillings a cwt. was dividing the expenses of the estate against the produce of the estate, taking the whole proceeds of the estate; and in the proceeds of the estate were calculated the rum, the rents, and the profits of the pen, and so forth. 4668. Is not it the case that the present price gives a good profit after replacing that us. the cwt., and paying the expenses of bringing the sugar to England?— It gave a profit of under 150 L on the whole. 4669. But 11 s. a cwt., plus the freight, does not come up to the price at which sugar is selling in the market?—I have given all the details of the expenses of the estate. | The following Statement was delivered in:]

0.32.

AMOUNT

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

26 Right Hon. Lord

Howard de Walden. 28 February 1848.

AMOUNT

of TAXES and

DUTIES

Paid on account Montpelier and Shettlewood Estates, for the Year 1847.

£. s. d.

Montpelier Estate:

£.

- 11 J

9 16 10

Land tax, 2,362 acres, a'Id. Public tax on 20 working mules, a' 3d.

Parish tax on ditto, a' 9 d.

- 15

Parish tax on hereditaments, 1,044 I., a' 1 s. 8 d. Loan tax

Less Discount, 10 per cent.

102

Montpelier Pen : Land tax on 4,759 acres, a' 1 d.

19 16

Parish tax on hereditaments, 1,159 l, a' 1 s. 8 d.

96 11

4 16

Loan tax, aid.

121

£. Less Discount, 10 per cent.

4 10

5 1/2 109

4 J

Shettlewood: Land tax, 1,980 acres, a'1 d.

Public tax, 45 breeding horse kind, a' 6 d. Ditto

4 asses, a' 4 d.

-J

Parish tax on ditto --------

3 10

Parish tax on hereditaments, a' 1 s. 4 d.

£. Less Discount, 10 per cent.

0 6

7 10 10 67 17 269

Duties: Customs duty on 4,111 cwt. Sugar from Montpelier estate, a' 14 s. per cwt.

2,877

8,793

- 10

Excise duty on 15,368 gallons Rum, a' 8s. 7 d. per gallon, proof ------£. 6,595 Add one-third for over-proof

2,198 ■

£.

11,670

11,939

- 10

RECAPITULATION

Taxes (Island) Duties (in England)

-----

Expenses (Supplies, &c.) ----Profit

£.

s. d.

200

- 10

11,070

5,180 10

110

COPY

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 27

425 Right Hon. Lord

Howard de Waldep. 28 February 1848.

COPY of the

MEMORIAL

of the Assembly of Jamaica to The

QUEEN

(put in by

Lord Howard de Walden). (Jamaica, ss.) To

THE QUEEN'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY.

The Humble Memorial of the Assembly of Jamaica. Most Gracious Sovereign, WE, Your Majesty's loyal subjects, the Assembly of Jamaica, beg permission to approach your Majesty, humbly to remonstrate against the many wrongs which we have sustained by Acts of the Imperial Parliament, and earnestly to implore Your Majesty's gracious interposition to avert the ruin which we apprehend from the Sugar Duly Act of the last Session. The history of these our wrongs, originating as they do out ot the former state of slavery, we feel it necessary to detail, and to revert to the changes to which we have been subjected during the great revolution effected by the Imperial, will in our social condition. The establishment of slavery in these colonies was not our act, but that of the parent government, the lands of Jamaica having been patented by your royal ancestors on the special condition that they should be cultivated by slaves for the promotion of the national wealth, and this policy was continued under sanction of British laws, equally sacred as those under which any other class ot Your Majesty's subjects held their property. It is unnecessary for us here to enter into the history of the trade by which those slaves were procured, it is enough to say, that after having been most vigorously and profitably carried on for 150 years by British ships, British merchants, and British capital, it was abolished by Act of Parliament in the year 1807. This was the first check Jamaica.

the hitherto extending cultivation and prosperity of

The advocates for the abolition of the African slave trade, then most solemnly disclaimed all intention of seeking to interfere with the existing state of slavery in the colonies; but scarcely had the one object been accomplished, when agitation commenced with respect to the other. The first overt act of the Parliament effected by this new agitation, was in the year 1815, by the introduction of a Bill into the House of Commons for registering the slaves, professedly to prevent their illegal introduction into the colonies, but covertly to pave the way for subsequent emancipation. The next movement was in the year 1823, when Mr. Canning, then a Minister of the Crown, introduced certain Resolutions into the House of Commons conceding to out-door pressure the interests of the colonists, and the principle of slave emancipation. From this period the anti-slavery agitation became more and inure violent, the slavery of these colonies was falsely denounced as the most extreme and abject that had ever degraded and cursed mankind. To bear this out, inflame the passions, and mislead the judgment of the people, every isolated case of hardship or cruelty (and some will occur in every community) was eagerly seized hold of and exaggerated for the purpose of degrading the character of the colonists in the estimation of the English people. From Session to Session this exciting subject was discussed in Parliament with increased intemperance, and emissaries spread the flame over this island, until the close of the year 1831, when the slaves, taught to believe that Parliament and the people of England had decreed their freedom, but that their masters withheld it, broke out in open rebellion, which was not put down until after many lives had been lost, many horrible atrocities committed, and the western portion of the island laid desolate by fire. Matters could not long remain in this distracted state. In May 1832, a Committee of the House of Commons, appointed to inquire into the condition of colonial slavery, after stating that their investigation embraced the t.vo following propositions, videlicet, "First, that the slaves, if emancipated, would maintain themselves, would be industrious, and disposed to acquire property by labour; " " Secondly, that the dangers of convulsions are greater from freedom withheld, than from freedom granted,"â&#x20AC;&#x201D;reported " that evidence affirmative of these propositions was not exhausted, but that as the Session was drawing to an end, they were compelled to close their labours in an abrupt and unfinished state, and that the important question of what was due to the fair and equitable consideration of the interests of private property, as connected with emancipation, had not been investigated by them." 0.32.

This

28 Right Hon. Lord

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE This left untouched the most important point of the inquiry, that of dealing with property

Howar (I de Walden. of vast magnitude, and in which the just claims of Britishsubjects, not represented in Parlia-

ment, were so deeply involved. Notwithstanding which, and without further inquiry, the 28 February 1848. Emancipation Act was passed the following Session, 1833, declaring the slaves free on the 1st day of August 1834, but subject to an intermediate st ate of six years' apprenticeship, and 20 millions were awarded to their owners as a compensation. This measure, well designated a " frightful experiment" by the Colonial Secretary, Lord Stanley, was brought under the consideration of the Jamaica legislature on the 8th day of October 1833, by Your Majesty's representative, Lord Mulgrave. In his opening speech he said, "the question of the abolition of slavery is one, the constant agitation of which is f requently alleged to have paralyzed many of the resources of this fertile colony. It has long been evident that this state of things could lead but to one termination ; its ultimate settlement was therefore on all accounts desirable. The unavoidable crisis has at last been precipitated by the almost unanimous voice of your fellow-subjects in the mother country. I am far from underrating the difficulties of this momentous, but now inevitable experiment. It is in your power, in a most material degree, to diminish the dangers of the transition, and in the same degree will you justly render the credit of success your own." Perilous indeed to life and property was the state of Jamaica at this awful crisis, when upwards of 300,000 slaves were at once made free; but we entered upon the difficult and momentous undertaking with the most anxious desire to make it successful, and Jamaica was the first of the slave colonies to give effect to the British Act. In closing this eventful session, which cast the future fate of ourselves and our constituents upon a dark and fearful uncertainty, the governor thus addressed us, " In conclusion, I must express my firm belief, that in all your future difficulties your ready recognition of the natural rights of your fellow men will meet its best reward in the revived diffusion of national sympathy, and the cheerfully continued extension of British protection." In giving our sanction to the British Abolition Act, yet strongly feeling its injustice in the inadequate remuneration awarded for the property destroyed, and the ulterior injury which we too clearly forsuw must result from it, we addressed to our Sovereign a remonstrance against it in these words : " By an Act of Parliament for the abolition of slavery, our local institutions have been superseded, the right of property invaded, political immunities disregarded, and consequently all that is dear and sacred to man in his social character placed in imminent danger. We have passed the law pressed upon us, without pledging ourselves for its success, without incurring any of its responsibilities ; and while we, in the face of the nation, enter our solemn protest against the precipitate measure, we claim subseneration should the experiment fail." On the 3d day of June 1834, the island legislature was convened by Lord Sligo, as governor, who, with reference to the change in our social system, pressed the necessity of providing more fully for the administration of justice, for the consolidation of the criminal law, for dividing the island into circuit courts, amending the workhouse laws, improving the state of the gaols for better prison discipline, for establishing weekly courts of petit sessions, providing places of confinement for the prisoners, raising an efficient police, &c. ; in reply to which, the Assembly expressed themselves ready to meet those objects, but " that they were unable to see how the many increased demands upon the colony could be met by its decreased resources, unaided by that assistance from the mother country which they had been led to expect. On the 4th day of August 1835 the Assembly met, and in answer to the governor's speech, expressing very favourable anticipations from the satisfactory working of the new system, replied, " that seeing large portions of our neglected cane fields becoming overrun with weeds, and a still larger extent of our pasture lands returning to a state of nature; seeing, in fact, desolation already overspreading the face of the land, it is impossible for us, without abandoning the evidence of our own senses, to entertain favourable anticipations, or to divest ourselves of the painful conviction, that progressive and rapid deterioration of property will continue to keep pace with the apprenticeship, and that its termination must (unless strong preventive measures be applied), complete the ruin of the colony." This gave offence to the governor, and the House was instantly dissolved. The new Assembly was convened on the 10th November, but little was done to provide for the wants of the country, as the session was abruptly terminated, in consequence of a message from his Excellency the governor, pointing out to the House the course it ought to pursue, with respect to a measure it had then under consideration. This message the House deemed to he a breach of its privileges. I.ord Sligo soon after retired from the government, and was succeeded by Sir Lionel Smith, who on meeting the legislature on the 1st November 1836, said, "The country is represented tome as full of grievances; many, I acknowledge, seem of great difficulty; invite you to examine into their cause and origin dispassionately, that they may be cornbate by joint exertions, and faithfully represented by me to the King's Ministers." The House replied, that they never had, never could have had, any other object in view in their

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

427

their proceedings, than to provide such regulations as in their experience and judgment, Right Hon. Lord appeared to them calculated to maintain order, and promote the general welfare of Howard de Waide n. society." We believe Sir Lionel Smith entered upon the government of Jamaica with the most 28 February 1848. sincere desire to sooth its distraction, and restore peace, by enforcing an impartial administration of the law between the proprietors and the emancipated slaves, and for a time he adhered to that determination ; but in the Colonial-office, anti-slavery influence still ruled paramount, and unfortunately for our interests Sir Lionel Smith soon yielded to it. The danger attending the Slave Emancipation Act arrested for a time the violent agitation by which it had been effected ; but no sooner did that danger seem over than it was again renewed. The work was said to be but half done; the negro was still under restraint, and that restraint was represented as even worse than slavery itself. The impatience of public feeling for the accomplishment of its object, could brook no delay; the outcry for the abolition of the apprenticeship system became almost as vehement as it had ever been for that of slavery ; the walls of Parliament again re-echoed with declamations on the sufferings of the African race, and with calumnies upon the characters of the white inhabitants. Impelled by this new agitation, the House of Commons passed, in March 1838, a Resolution conceding unqualified freedom on the ensuing 1st of August. This flagiant breach of national faith was afterwards resisted by the Ministers of the Crown, but under circumstances which left this colony no alternative but compliance, or the hazard of internal commotion. An Act was therefore passed to terminate the apprenticeship on the 1st of August, and thus the proprietary body were unjustly deprived of two years service of the apprentices, which had been pledged to them by Act of Parliament, as part of their compensation. On the 1st of August 1838, unqualified freedom commenced ; there was no violence, the mass of the labouring population being left in quiet possession of their houses and grounds on the estates of their masters. For successive weeks universal idleness reigned over the whole island; the plantation cattle, deserted by their keepers, ranged at large through the growing crops, and fields of canes, cultivated at great cost, rotted upon the ground from want of hands to cut them. Among the humbler classes of society, respectable families, whose sole dependence had been a few slaves, had to perform for themselves the most menial offices. Still the same baneful influence continued to rule the government. In all cases of diffi rence the stipendiary magistrates supported the emancipated mass against the helpless proprietor, and even took an active part in supporting the demands of "the people for an extravagant rate of wages, alike injurious to both classes. Your Majesty's subjects of Jamaica now hoped, that with the concession of unqualified freedom to the slaves, they would be left to exercise their constitutional rights, in providing such laws as in their experience and judgment would best tend to restore the peace and order of society, and to establish those habits of industry among the people, so essential to their own future happiness. Vain, however, was this hope. Again did Parliament invade our rights, by passing an Act " to regulate Prisons in the West Indies." Such continued oppression could no longer be borne. The representatives of the people came to the determination to enter upon no legislative duties, beyond such as were necessary to preserve faith with the public creditor, until Your gracious Majesty's pleasure should be made known, " whether your subjects of Jamaica (now happily all in a state of freedom) were henceforth to be treated as subjects, with the power of making laws, as heretofore for their own government, or whether they were to be viewed as a conquered colony, governed by Parliamentary legislation, Orders in Council, or, as in the case of the late amended Abolition Act, by investing the governor of the island with the arbitrary power of issuing proclamations, having the force of law, over the lives and properties of the people." The result of this determination was an immediate prorogation of the House, followed by a dissolution. But this appeal to the people only resulted in a stronger manifestation of that sense of injury and wrong which pervaded the colony. The former members were re-elected, and the same course adhered to. It was not without mature consideration that we decided upon the adoption of so extreme a proceeding ; we saw the property of the island all but annihilated, and the fabric of society tottering to its base; we saw our legislative authority so overruled as not only to be useless, but positively injurious, exercised under a domination which sought to cast upon us the responsibility of acts not our own, nor in accordance with our judgment; and we saw that two jarring and conflicting authorities, enacting laws for one community, could but end in anarchy. In this extremity, our last and only hope appeared to be, to force our case to an open and full discussion before Parliament and the nation; whereby truth might be elicited, prejudice dispelled, and our wretched condition made known. We felt that whatever might be the issue, no change could be for the worse, not even if our constitution, so trampled upon, should be altogether abrogated. The result justified our hopes. Sir Charles Metcalfe was appointed governor, under whose wise counsels and impartial administration the elements of discoid speedily subsided, and the peace and order of society were restored. lite destructive result to property, by the changes thus precipitately forced on the colony, wil| behest manifested by a reference to the exports of our three great staples, sugar, rum,

O.32.

E 3

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Right Bon. Lord Howard do Walden. 28 February 1848.

Hhds. Sugar

Phns. Rum

at 20 /.

at 10/.

Lbs. Coffee at 60 s. per 100 lbs.

ÂŁ.

Average of the five years ending 1807, last of the African trade

131,962

50,462

23,625,377

3,852,321

Average of the five years ending 1815, date of Registry Act

118,490

48,726

24,394,790

3,588,903

Average of the five years ending 1823, date of Canning's Resolutions -

110,924

41,046

18,789,909

3,192,637

Average of the five years ending 1833, last five of slavery -

95,353

35,505

17,645,602

2,791,478

Average of the five years ending 1843, first five of freedom -

42,453

14,185

7,412,498

1,213,284

Up to 1807, the exports of Jamaica progressively rose as cultivation was extended. From that date they have been gradually sinking, but we more especially entreat attention to the evidence here adduced of the effect of emancipation, which in 10 years reduced the annual value of the three principal staples from 2,791,478/. to 1,213,284 l., being in the proportion 7 to 16, or equal, at five percent., to an investment of about 32 millions of property annihilated. We believe the history of the world would be in vain searched for any parallel case of oppression perpetrated by a civilized government upon any section of its own subjects. Disproportionate, however, as was the pittance given to the extent of the property wrested from us, happy would it have been for many of the sufferers if Your Majesfy's Government had then announced the policy it is now pursuing, and saved the unavailing exertions made by the proprietors of estates to continue cultivation, instead of luring them, on from year to year by the hope that time, and the aid of Government, would bring improvement. We may safely affirm, that in this unsuccessful struggle an amount of money has been lost far exceeding the compensation. Of the poorer class of estates, many have been entirely abandoned, and others sold to repay the debts which had accrued upon them since emancipation, without giving one shilling to the unfortunate proprietors. Under the fiscal change now contemplated, the purchasers of those estates are likely to become the second victims of imperial misgovernment. While the revenue derived from landed property has been thus reduced, the public burthens have been increased. Our records show that from the passing of the Emancipation Act, Your Majesty's Ministers have never ceased to urge upon the colony, even under threats of Parliamentary compulsion, the necessity of new laws, and of new and expensive establishments to make successful that great change in our social system, in which the whole empire was said to take so deep an interest. Anxious to meet the wishes of Government, and with a view to provide for the public safety, we organized a police at an annual cost of upwards of 40,000/., and at the same time increased the judicial and ecclesiastical institutions to nearly double their former establishments. An equally liberal provision was made for penitentiaries, prisons, and sanatory departments, in the confidence and under the assurance given us, that the parent Government would protect and support us in meeting difficulties which it had forced upon us against our most solemn protestations. For the four years last past, our public and parochial burthens have exceeded an annual average of 400,000 /., nearly equal in amount to one-third the value of the whole exports of the colony. If, from changed views of policy, we are now to be abandoned to more severe trials, these establishments, already too onerous, must be reduced in accordance with the reduced means of the colony. We deeply feel the hardship to be entailed on public functionaries, by curtailing salaries awarded to them by acts of the island, but necessity leaves us no choice. To continue demands on the treasury, which it cannot meet, would hut involve greater evil. Moreover, it is but just that all persons paid by the public should bear an equitable share in the privations to which the other classes of society are subjected. We are told it is only by importing cheap food, and other necessaries, that we shall he able to compete, under free trade, with foreign possessions; but it is manifestly impossible for us to attain that object whilst our establishments are continued on a scale so costly as can only be met by the imposition of high duties. Free trade, previous to emancipation, would have been an unqualified boon to Jamaica. It was then withheld. We were shackled in every possible manner

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manner to serve the interests of the parent state, and the consequence has been that since Right Hon. Lord the year 1807, the neighbouring foreign islands of Cuba and Porto Rico have increased Howard de Walden. their exports, and advanced in prosperity, in the same ratio as Jamaica has declined. 28 February 1848. To avert the destruction with which we are now threatened, and at the same time to secure cheap sugar to the people of England, it is only necessary that the emancipated colonies should have a limited protection for a limited time, and that all restrictions should be withdrawn from the importation of African labourers, who may thus be admitted to share in the blessings of freedom, and the enjoyment of civilized life, now happily existing in your Majesty's colonies. If this course, so much more consonant with justice, sound policy, and national honour, be pursued; if freedom, yet weak and helpless, be nourished into strength, instead of being crushed in its infancy, there can be no doubt of Your Majesty's free possessions being able successfully to compete with slave-cultivated countries, and of ultimately supplanting slavery. Thus treated, the British colonies will soon produce, as they formerly did, more sugar than England can consume, when protection in her markets will cease to operate in their favour, or to be any longer required. Inheriting the industry and enterprize of their country, the inhabitants of this colony can fear no competition under equal circumstances ; but if unsupported, as they have been in the late great change, they are now to be forced into a contest altogether unequal; if the result of the Slave Emancipation Act is to be the almost entire destruction of property, and the impoverishment of all classes of the inhabitants, this great measure, instead of benefiting the cause of humanity, must rivet faster the chains of slavery, and aggravate the sufferings of the African race. Having now laid before Your Majesty a faithful representation of the impoverished condition to which this once valuable colony has been reduced ; of the sufferings and dangers to which experimental legislation has exposed it; and of the ruin which now impends over Your faithful subjects ; we implore Your Majesty, on behalf of our constituents, on behalf of the many families lately in affluence, and now in destitution, and on behalf of the emancipated slaves, to direct Your Ministers to review the Sugar Duty Act with that consideration due to us, and to the national interests involved in it. We most humbly pray that if the duty cannot be altogether taken off British sugar, in accordance with the principles of free trade now acted upon with respect to other articles, it should at any rate be reduced so far as to afford us some moderate and permanent protection, to meet in part the disadvantages under which we labour, as compared with the slave cultivators. That the duty on colonial and British spirits be equalized in the three kingdoms. That sugar and molasses be admitted into the distilleries and breweries. That all restrictions be removed from free African immigration, subjecting it only to such regulations as may be necessary to prevent its being made a cover for carrying the people into slavery. That contracts for labour be extended to three years, under such regulations as shall secure to the immigrants fair remuneration for their labour, and a full participation in the rights of free men. If these our reasonable requests are withheld, if we are to be involved in a ruinous competition with slave-holding countries, if Your Majesty's Government are of opinion that the protection and assistance which alone can avert our ruin are incompatible with the national interest, it will only remain for us, in the face of the nation, and of the world, to demand of Parliament that equitable compensation, to which, as British subjects, we are clearly entitled. Passed the Assembly, this 18th day of December 1846. S. J. Dallas, Speaker.

0.32.

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William Dennison, Esq., called in ; and Examined. W. Dennison, Esq

4670. Mr. Miles.] I years.

BELIEVE

yon have been some years in Java?—Twenty-

five 28 February 1848.

4671. Were you all that time engaged in the cultivation of sugar?—No; I practised between three and four years as a medical man. 4672. But you have been engaged for some years in the cultivation of sugar in Java?—Yes, for about 20 years. 4673. Will you be kind enough to tell the Committee the nature of the labour in that country; is it compulsory or free labour?—The government took upon themselves to plant the sugar-cane, making contracts with the natives, and private individuals cultivate the sugar-cane on their own account, and pay the labourers whom they employ from three to six and ten guilders a month. 4674. Is the labour employed by government forced labour, or are the labourers paid by government?—They are paid by the manufacturers of the sugar. The land in Java, I believe, is considered to belong to government, and a rent is paid upon the same principle as existed under the administration of Sir Stamford Raffles; and I believe the Dutch government carry out, pretty nearly, the measures that were adopted by Mr. John Crawford, and which are explained in the work of his; and also in Sir Stamford Raffles' Work on Java. There is one short chapter, which will give you as much information upon the nature of the cultivation in Java as an hour's conversation, if I may be allowed to read it. He says, " The island of Java is a great agricultural country ; its soil is the grand source of its wealth. In its cultivation the inhabitants exert their chief industry, and upon its produce they rely, not only for their subsistence, but the few articles of foreign luxury or convenience which they purchase. The Javans are a nation of husbandmen, and exhibit that simple structure of society incident to such a stage of its progress. To the crop the mechanic looks immediately for his wages, the soldier for his pay, the magistrate for his salary (or jakat) and the government for its tribute." There are certain arrangements under which they pay for good land: for rice fields, or what they call paddy fields, two-fitths of the produce. I have here the instructions for the management of the private lands, as well as public lands. There has been the greatest care and the greatest precaution taken that the privileges may not be infringed upon by the native population ; and I should say that there are few nations in the world that pay more attention to the comforts and rights of the people than the Dutch do with regard to the Javanese. " The wealth of a province or village is measured by the extent and fertility of its land, its facilities for rice irrigation, and the number of its buffaloes." Previous to the capture of Java by the Dutch, all the rents of the lands were delivered to the government warehouses, but now they are paid in money. "When a chief gives his assistance in the police or the magistracy, he is paid by so much village land, or the rent of so much land realised in produce, and the native has no other means of pensioning or rewarding a useful servant." And I believe those rules exist to the present day. He says, " Be it known to the high officers of my palace, to my bapahs (regent), and to my mantris (petite noblesse)," says a Javan patent of nobility, granted by Sultan Hamangka Biruna, " that I had given this letter to my servant to raise him from the earth, bestowing upon biro for his subsistence lands to the amount of 1,100 chachas, the labour of 1,100 men." In this way they are paid, I believe, to this day. " By the population returns and by the number of leases granted under the late settlement, it appears that sometimes there is not more than a tenth part of the inhabitants employed in any other branch of industry; but of a population of 243,268 in the Priângén regencies;" I suppose the population is now double that; " 209,125 are stated as employed in agriculture; in fact, the entire population of Pruângén is agricultural ; they are far removed from the sea, they have some river communication, but they have very little commerce but that of agriculture." Surabaya is a very large town, the next in size to Batavia; there the greatest part of the natives are mechanics and tradesmen, and manufacturers of such things as cloths and metals. " The soil of Java, though in many parts much neglected, is remarkable

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able for the abundance and variety of its productions ; with very little care or TV. Dennison, Esq. exertion on the part of the cultivator it yields all that the wants of the island demand, and is capable of supplying resources far above anything that the indo- 28 February 1848. lence or ignorance of the people, either oppressed under the despotism of their own sovereigns, or harassed by the rapacity of strangers, have yet permitted them to enjoy." It should be observed that this was written by Sir Stamford Raffles in 1814 or 1815. " Lying under a tropical sun, it produces, as before observed, all the fruits of a tropical climate, while in many districts its mountains and eminences make up for the difference of latitude, and give it, though only a few degrees from the Line, all the advantages of temperate regions. The bambu, the cocoa-nut tree, the sugar-cane, the cotton tree, and the coffee plant here flourish in the greatest luxuriance, and yield products of the best quality. Rice, the great staple of subsistence, covers the slopes of mountains and the low fields, and gives a return of 30, 40, or 50 fold, while maize, or even wheat and rye, and the other plants of Europe, may be cultivated to advantage on high and inland situations. Such is the fertility of the soil, that in some places, after yielding two and sometimes three crops in the year, it is not necessary even to change the culture. Water, which is so much wanted, and which is seldom found in requisite abundance in tropical regions, here flows in the greatest plenty. The cultivator who has prepared his saivah or rice-field within its reach diverts part of it from its channel, spreads it out into numerous canals of irrigation, and thus procures from it, under a scorching sun, the verdure of the rainy season, and, in due time, a plentiful harvest." This goes on a little further; then we have the tenure under which the Javanese hold the land under the English, and it is pretty much the same tenure. " The whole country, as seen from mountains of considerable elevation, appears a rich, diversified, and well-watered garden, animated with villages, interspersed with the most luxuriant fields, and covered with the richest verdure." The plantations are generally by the sides of the hills, so that the plant collects all the washings from the tops of the mountains, which are not covered by trees, but exposed to a burning sun, and the soil therefore never requires any manure. " The poorest soil is that found on the ranges of low hills, termed kendang, extendingalong many districts, and particularly in the southern division of the island, but in no part is it so sterile or ungrateful as not to afford a liberal return for the labour bestowed upon its cultivation, especially if a supply of water can be by any means directed upon it. But when nature does much for a country its inhabitants are sometimes contented to do little, and satisfied with its common gifts, neglect to improve them into the means of dignity or comfort. The peasantry of Java easily procuring the necessaries of life, seldom aim at improvement of their condition. Rice is the principal food of all classes of the people, and the great staple of their agriculture; of this necessary article it is calculated that a labourer can, in ordinary circumstances, earn from four to five katis a day; " that is, he can earn as much as will procure him four or five katis of rice, and that is sufficient for him to live upon for five days, and as long as that lasts him he will not work. " The labour of the women of Java is estimated almost as highly as that of the men, and thus a married couple can maintain eight or ten persons; and as a family seldom exceeds half that number, they have commonly half of their earnings applicable for the purchase of little comforts, for implements of agriculture, for clothing and lodging. The two last articles cannot be expensive in a country where the children generally go naked, and where the simplest structure possible is sufficient to afford the requisite protection against the elements. The price of rice, which thus becomes of importance to the labourer, varies in different parts of the island, according to the fertility of the district where it is produced, its situation with regard to a market, or its distance from one of the numerous provincial capitals." The usual price of rice was about 10 years ago 2 guilders a picul; a picul is 133 1/3 lbs., a guilder is 20 of. "In the native provinces a pikul, weighing 133 J lbs. English, sometimes sells below the fourth part of a Spanish dollar,"â&#x20AC;&#x201D;they had no sale for it then, but since so much rice has been exported to the European market of late years, it has considerably risen in price,-â&#x20AC;&#x201D;" and at other times for more than two Spanish dollars; but in common years, and at an average over the whole island, including the capital, the estimate may be taken at 30 Spanish dollars the koyan of 30 piculs, or 3,000 katis. A kati of rice, according to this estimate, may be sold to the consumer, after allowing a sufficient profit to the retail merchant, for much less than a penny. But though the price of this common article of subistence may be of 0.32. F some,

W. Dennison, Esq. 28 February 1848.

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some consequence to the Javaen labourer, when he wants to make any purchase with his surplus portion, he is rendered independent of the fluctuations of the market for his necessary food by the mode in which he procures it. He is generally the cultivator of the soil, and while he admits that law of custom which assigns to the superior a certain share of the produce, he claims an equal right himself to the remainder, which is generally sufficient to support himself and his family, and he sometimes finds in this law of custom, sanctioned by the interest of both parties, a security in the possession of his lands, and a barrier against the arbitrary exactions of his chief, which could scarcely be expected under the capricious despotism of a Mahometan government. He is protected by the Dutch government, but he could have no protection under the Mahometan government. " In addition to this reserved share he raises on his own account if he is industrious, within what may be termed the cottage farm, all the vegetables, fruit, and poultry requisite for his own consumption ; his wife invariably manufactures the slight articles of clothing which, in such a climate, the common people are in the habit of wearing ; what can be spared of the fruits of their joint industry from the supply of their immediate wants is carried to market and exchanged for a little salt fish, dried meat, or for other trifling comforts, hoarded as a store for the purchase of an ox or a buffalo, or expended in procuring materials for repairing the hut and the buying the implements of husbandry. The farming stock of the cultivator is as limited as his wants are few and his cottage inartificial; it usually consists of a pair of buffaloes or oxen and a few rough implements of husbandry ; there is a small proportion of sheep and goats on the island ; but with the exception of poultry, no kind of live stock is reared exclusively either for the kitchen or the dairy." 4675. You think that the extracts which you have now read represent very faithfully the state of Java at present ? â&#x20AC;&#x201D;I think they do. 4676. If I understand rightly, the labourer is obliged to cultivate a certain quantity of land and to give the government a certain quantity of produce ?â&#x20AC;&#x201D; Previously to 1828 or 1829, when the Commissioner-general Vandibosch came to Java, the government did not interfere with the labourers so long as they paid their rents; contracts were made from year to year, and a certain portion of the produce was to be delivered to government and paid in specie; but when General Vandibosch came to Java in 1828 or 1829, he introduced a system of improvement in agriculture, and he suggested that first of all to the native chiefs, who exercise a sort of regency in their division of the country. The greatest part of the land belongs to the government, with the exception of the native provinces. There were three Sultans of whose authority was done away with by Sir Stamford Raffles; and there were the ancient Sultans and whose authority was also done away, but the of native provinces are still independent, and they occupy a considerable part of the island, although a great part was lost during the war with 4677. What portion of Java, belongs to those native chiefs; two-thirds?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;No; I should think not one-tenth of the island. On the arrival of General Vandibosch, who had been there the year before, he thought it would be for the benefit of the island, and also a means of employment to the vessels of Holland, if he could introduce the cultivation of an article for exportation, because he found that the commercial part of the Dutch navy was entirely gone, and therefore at the suggestion of a trading society the cultivation of sugar was introduced, and the great extension of the cultivation dates from that period. Previous to that, some years before, it had been a considerable article of commerce, but from the low price of sugar and the difficulty of getting labourers it was considerably reduced ; so much so that I do not believe the produce of Java exceeded 1,000 or 1,500 tons per annum. Certainly the cultivation was for the general benefit of the nation in regard to their own consumption, but taking the circumstances into consideration, and the little intercourse that the Europeans had had with the natives during that period, Vandibosch thought it would be for their benefit and for the benefit of the Dutch nation if such a system of cultivation could be taught them, and introduced round about their villages. And he first of all proposed it to what are called the regents, who have the entire control over the native population, under the surveillance of the European administration ; what we should have called in England governors, but they are called the residents, and they have the entire administration of the province. 4678. That

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4678. That is under the authorities of the island?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;Yes; they have been W. Dennison, Esq. made by the Governor in Council regents, and have the entire administration of the province of which they are the residents, or, as we call them, the governors ; 28 February 1848, each resident has an assistant resident, and surveyors, and inspectors, appointed by government; some reside on the spot, and some do not. But this system, that was introduced by the Commissioner-general Vandibosch, was first suggested to the native chiefs; from the native chiefs it was then proposed to the natives themselves, whether they would have any objection upon their waste lands, in such places as were not cultivated, to introduce a new system of culture, and they very wisely said that they had no objection; and that system I shall be able to prove to you has been to their advantage, not only in a moral point of view but in a physical point of view, both as regards their means, their security, and their employment. I will give an instance: I occupied about 1,800 acres of land, and if you have seen celery beds in this country, they are precisely the same in appearance as the sugar grounds when they are finished for the season. 4679. Will you be good enough to state first how the matter was settled with the native population ?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;When this sugar operation was begun, I believe the Governor-general knew very little about it, and the resident of Cherrybun, who was the first to begin it, also knew very little about it; but we collected such information as we could from those who had been engaged in sugar cultivation in the neighbourhood of Batavia, and also from the Chinese who had been cultivators of it, and a calculation was made of what would be an equivalent for the labour that would be expected from the people for the cultivation of the cane, which calculation I must now say from experience could not have been far out of the way, because beyond what the government plant for me, I plant also 500 or 600 acres on my own account. A contract was made with the natives, with their own consent, that a certain quantity of land should be cultivated by them. As I stated before, the native chiefs are first consulted as to what they think about the cultivation, and after they have consulted the chiefs, then the people are called together, and as a matter of course, if the chiefs want them to do a thing, they say, " yes, that is very true," and they fall into it. But at the same time the government took very good care that they were compensated for their work ; and the way that they contracted with the people and with the chiefs was this : an arrangement having been made with us, it was then for us to ascertain what would be an equivalent to them for their labour, and information was obtained from those who had been cultivators previously to that period, for we had sugar cultivation for many years, and it was arranged that they should be paid a certain price. Then after the government had established that, and had agreed with the natives, they wanted people to manufacture the sugar for them ; but there some difficulty occurred, for, notwithstanding the favourable terms, as it was supposed, that were then held out, they could not for a time get any parties to take contracts. Persons thought that the government should allow more for the canes; that it would never pay; and therefore at the beginning there was not one Dutchman who would take a contract with the government, because they said they could not make any money by it; whether it was want of enterprize, or want of spirit, or want of capital, I do not know. The natives knew nothing about the cultivation of the cane, and the natives were very little accustomed to work, and the Europeans had had very little intercourse with them ; but, however, the price was then established; the price was about three guilders, or 5 s. for 133 1/2 lbs. 4680. Was this for the manufacture of sugar ?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;This was paid to the natives for the cultivation of sugar. They had nothing to do with anything but the planting of the canes ; they were paid on the quantity of sugar produced. When the canes come to maturity there is a commission of the manufacturers, the resident, the native chiefs, and the cultivators ; each cultivator has his own superintendent ; he goes with him. The superintendent makes the best bargain lie can, and the manufacturer makes the best bargain he can. The first valuation was that they should be paid according to the quality of the canes; they were to be valued as first, second, and third class. For such canes as were of the first class, the cultivator was entitled to the amount of 20 piculs ; for an acre and five-eighths he would be entitled to 75 guilders. They were paid in money at the rate of 75 guilders for first-class sugars, or per cwt. 0.32 F 2 4681. Was

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W. Dennison, Esq.

4681. Was the bargain struck upon the canes or upon the manufacture sugar ?—Upon the canes. 28 February 1848. 4682. They found an estimate of the quantity of sugar that could be made from the cane ?—Yes, they made an estimate from the appearance of the cane, in the same way as a farmer going to a wheat-field and seeing it growing, could estimate that he would have five quarters or four quarters an acre ; a person watching a sugar crop can tell pretty nearly what a cane-field will yield. 4683. What was the second class?—The second class was 15 piculs for an acre and five-eighths, and the third class 10 piculs, or per cwt. 4684. What quantity of piculs do you think there were in the second and third class ?—The arrangement with the contractor was, that the canes should be classed according to value; it was considered to be the full extent which could be grown in Java at the time; the cultivation was so little known and had been in the hands of the Chinese, who had not paid that attention to the cultivation which is paid to it now; the Chinese used to plant the canes six or seven feet apart, whereas in Java the government now plant the canes only a foot and a half apart.

Mercurii, 1° die Martii, 1848. MEMBERS

Lord George Bentinck. Sir Thomas Bird). Sir Edward Buxton. Mr. Milner Gibson. Mr. Hope.

PRESENT.

Lord John Manners. Mr. Matheson. Mr. Miles. Mr. Moffatt. Mr. Villiers.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK, IN THE CHAIR.

William Dennison, Esq. called in ; and further Examined. W. Dennison, Esq. 1 March 1848.

4685. Mr. Miles.] WHEN you were last examined you stated that the money paid to the natives was at the rate of 75 guilders for 20 piculs of the first class ? —Yes. 4686. Fifteen piculs of the second class, and 10 piculs the third class ?—Yes. 4687. Was this merely for the cultivation of the sugar?—It was merely for the cultivation of the sugar. 4688. What other charges has the manufacturer before he ships his sugar; is it more than the simple manufacture of the sugar ?—Formerly when the contracts were first made the natives used to deliver the canes at the mill, but government found that it was too much for them to do, and they thought they were not sufficiently paid, and to give them a more efficient remuneration they made new eontracts with the natives by extending the supplies of rice or giving them other advantages which were equivalent to an additional payment to the native for cutting and carrying the canes; in the first instance, the natives delivered firewood for the manufacture of the sugar. 4689. What course is pursued now ?—The course pursued now is that the natives have nothing more to do with it except the planting of the sugar. 4690. When the cane is cut has the manufacturer to take it from the field where it is grown, or does the native take it to any particular place ?—Some do and some do not; at my establishment I have a contract with the natives to pay them so much a bush for cutting the canes, and so much a bush for bringing them to the mill. We commenced cutting in the month of May, about the middle of May, and finished about the latter end of September; during that period the natives had no occupation but the cultivation of the canes. We plant almost -every year, which is rather unusual, and perhaps more expensive.

The following Observations have subsequently been received, in farther elucidation of Questions 4685 to 4690.] [When

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[When the present system of cane cultivation was introduced, the canes at W. Dennison, Esq. maturity were taxed upon the field by the contractor and native planters, in 1 March 1848. presence of the resident and native chiefs, whose duty it was to see justice done to the planter. The canes were divided into three classes, first, second, and third, according to the quantity of sugar they were expected to yield ; for example, the first class 20 piculs per bouw, of 500 square roods, or about an acre and 5-8ths. The second 15 piculs, and the third 10 piculs of 133 J lbs., and for each picul was paid three guilders and a half, or about 5.v. 10c/., for which sum the canes were delivered at the mill; but as the government thought that not a remunerating price to the planter, new arrangement were made, granting to the contractor a longer lease, and an extension of cultivation, to enable him to pay the native planter one cent per bundle of 20 canes, for the cutting, &c., and one and a half cent for transporting the canes to the mill; the contractor making advances to the planter to purchase buffaloes, which he uses in the fields, and carts, during crop time, and cultivating his rice fields, when they are no longer required in the sugar gardens. About 16 cents is paid to the native chiefs for their superintendence per picul by the contractor; but in more recent contracts the government only engage to plant the canes, which are sold to the contractor at the above price, say three guilders and 50 cents, and 16 cents to the native chiefs, without any further interference of government, and at the contractor's risk, after it has been taxed, so that at present the native planter commences in the month of May, and has done planting in the latter end of September ; planting his Indian corn, cotton, and other green crops upon his sugar grounds, as they are cut in succession, and comes off in time to prepare the ground for a rice crop.] 4691. V ou do not ratoon the canes ?—We have ratooned some, but very little. 4692. Is that because the yield is not sufficient?—No; we have so much ground, the cane fields are planted one year with canes and the next year with rice, and so in rotation, so as not to interfere with the rice cultivation. 4693. What is the average yield ?—There is a difficulty in telling that. I have some old letters here, which I have my doubts about; however, they were written by a gentleman who had the means of collecting the best information, and therefore I think some credit should be given to the information which he collected. He says, on the. 13th of February 1835 : " You say I am a croaker; but from what I have seen, I like rather to damp the expectation of you fabricants, for generally you are too sanguine; this for your good. I am now of opinion that your system of planting is not profitable if you have the means of shifting your lands ; at Pasarouang they plant at two feet, say one and a half; their canes are small but full of saccharine matter, and from good canes they get 150 to 160 piculs per bouw of 1,225 square roods. At Panaroekan, under Bezoekie, a Chinaman got 1,000 piculs from 15 bouws." I doubt that very much, I never saw such produce. 4694. You imagine that is rather a high average ?—I think so ; however, I must not doubt Mr. Scott's information, because he was inspector of the opium farms, and a man who had the best information. 4695. That you say is a report of 1835 ?—It is. 4696. Is not it possible that the cultivation of Java may have so improved that the return per bouw is much larger than in 1835 ?—No ; under the best circumstances I doubt whether they can increase so much as that. The full average of a bouw (that is, and acre and five-eighths,) I should take to be 35 piculs. I cannot make anything more than 25 piculs to the houw. 4697. You stated that you made an arrangement with the natives for the cultivation of the cane, and a separate arrangement for carrying the cane to the mill; have you any objection to state what price you agreed to pay to the labourers, and what price for carrying the cane to the mill ?—It depends upon circumstances. When I began the cultivation of the sugar-cane, there were only two contracts. The labour then was pretty much the same. I pay my people, during the grinding season, four guilders a month; but at other fabriques in the neighbourhood they pay them five or six guilders a month. 4698. Is that the work about the estates ?—I am speaking of the work in the fabric. 4699. In the manufactory?—Yes. 4700. The question referred to the price you paid the labourer for his cultivation, and the price you paid him for carrying the cane to the mill ?—The 0.32. natives F 3

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natives are paid three guilders and 50 cents for every picul of sugar; that was the case first of all. 4701. That is for the sugar-cane?—Yes. 1 March 1848. 4702. Determined by what ?—By the valuation; by a taxation upon the ground; that was in the commencement. The natives are now paid three guilders and 50 cents. I am not sure, but I think they are paid one cent for a bundle of 20 canes ; then they were paid one cent and a half more for every bundle of canes that they cart to the mills. This is all done by the same villages; each v illage has its own sugar garden, and each labourer has part of the cultivation. Here {producing the same) is a plan of the garden. We ought not to commence before May or June, and we ought to finish before the last of August; but in a garden like this we cannot get sufficient labourers, and we are obliged to leave part of it uncultivated. 4703. Who superintends the cultivation of the sugar-cane in this garden?— My administrator. 4704. And under him the native chief?—No; it is perfectly independent of the government. 4705. You lay this out yourself?—Yes ; this was formerly a forest. 4706. You have said that three guilders and 50 cents is the cost for every picul brought to the mill, with the exception of one cent for every bundle?— That is for the cutting, and one and a half cent for the transport. 4707. What does that make altogether, on an average, for the quantity?—I do not know. 4708. It is a very light addition to every picul, is it not?—I cannot tell. 4709. Would you have any objection to tell the Committee what the cost of the manufacture of the sugar is?—Here is a contract, which was made about eight years ago, just before I left Java; the contracts that are made now are quite different to what they were before. In the contracts latterly made all the sugar is by agreement delivered to government; when I made the contract it was only the value of the canes that was to be delivered to the government, at 10 guilders a picul; I delivered my sugar to the government at to guilders a picul in payment for the canes. 4710. What is the cost per picul of the manufacture of the sugar:—It costs to make it from seven guilders and a half to eight guilders; that includes the canes and the manufacture. He must deliver all his sugar to the government. 4711. That includes everything?—Yes. 4712. He can put it free on board ship at 13s. 4d? ?—He must deliver it to the government stores at that price. that for the best quality of sugar?—That is what it costs him upon 4713. Is the whole. I his party says, Here I get from the government for No. 18, (which is the best quality of sugar, which I suppose would not come in here at the low price duty,) 11 guilders and 50 cents a picul; for No. l6, which is now selling in Batavia at 16 guilders a picul, he gets nine guilders and 50 cents ; for No. 12 he gets eight guilders and a half a picul, and for No. 10, which would be the ordinary brown or muscovado sugar, he gets six guilders ; altogether he got nine guilders and 50 cents for each picul. 4714. Is this guaranteed to him by the government ?—It is. 4715. How many pounds are there in a picul?—One hundred and thirty-three pounds. 4716. Then the manufacturer can deliver to the government the highest quality of sugar, such as would come in under the highest duty here, at the price ot eight guilders, or 13s. 4d.?—No ; 11 1/2 guilders, but that is copper currency, which is sometimes 18 and sometimes 20 per cent, discount. I have here an invoice of 500 tons of sugar shipped to me in 1844, and sold at Rotterdam at a loss of 2,500 l., upon which I made a calculation as to what I thought the sugar could be grown for and imported into England or into Holland : the sugar can be grown at 14 s. a cwt. 4717. What quality of sugar ?—It is taking the average. 4718. What is the average freight ?—From 5 l. to five guineas. 4719. In reality, you can sell the best quality of sugar at about 20 or 20s. 6d. in bond ?—Twenty-two shillings; I have it here. There are the shipping charges. 4720. Is that shipping charges in the island?—Yes; the commission in the island is 2 1/2 per cent.; the freight, 5s.; and the insurance, 11 d. 4721. Is

W. Dennison, Esq.

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W. Dennison, Esq. Is there any other expense?—No. 4722. Then for 22 s. you could afford to sell in bond in this country the 1 March 1848. highest quality of sugar?—That would be prime cost; that is for private cultivation. 4723. That only includes the grower's profit ?—Only the grower's profit. 4724. In what year was that?—That was shipped .on the 10th of April 1844. 4725. Do you know whether any export duty has been put on since?—I believe not. 4726. Could the government send it at a cheaper rate than this?—Yes; because they charge no rent for the land. They afford all the facilities which governments generally have it in their power to afford, and they are by that means enabled to cultivate generally cheaper than a private individual. 4727. Governments have a decided advantage over a private individual?—Of course. 4728. Can you form any estimate of the price at which the government could afford to sell in bond in this country ?—The price of cultivation to government is, to some they pay 12 guilders copper; to some they pay 9 guilders copper, which is, I think, the lowest they pay. That is delivered at the government store, from whence it is sent to the trading society, who ship it and sell it in Holland by public auction. 4729. You stated that the cost to the manufacturer was 14 s. per cwt.; what saving could government effect upon that 14 s. per cwt.?—The private manufacturers and growers of sugar are in the neighbourhood of Batavia, the greatest part of them. They have to send away their own foremen into the hills to look for labourers; they are obliged to pay them so much for each labourer, so that their wages would be considerably dearer than those who are residing in the country, where there is dense population, and where labour is to be had cheap. 4730. Could government sell it at 2 s. per cwt. less than a private grower, do you think ?—I should think they could. 4731. Could they afford to sell at 4 s. less ?—I should not think they could. 4732. At 3 s. less?—I cannot say; I have not given it my attention particularly. 4733. But you think they could decidedly at 2 ?—I think they could; but government have a great many other expenses which individuals have not; after they get it into possession they have a commission to pay to the tradingsociety. I have heard from good authority that they had lost between two and three millions a year by sugar for two or three years. The cultivation of the sugar, in my opinion, in Java is more with a view to give employment to their ships than any profit that the government calculate upon deriving from the cultivation. 4734. Is the cultivation capable of being extended in Java ?—I do not think it will be so to any very great extent. 4735. For what reason ?—They do not wish to make it in any way oppressive to the natives; they are very tenacious of imposing extra labour upon the natives beyond what they can do with ease. 4736. Has any extension of the cultivation of sugar taken place on account of the sugar being admitted to the markets of this country?—I think not; but I believe they intend extending the sugar cultivation, for reasons mentioned in reply to Question 4738. 4737. By government, or private individuals?—By government; but I do not think that has been based upon the reduction of the duties in England. 4738. To what extent are they going to increase the cultivation ?—They have lately done away with the cultivation of indigo, which they have found prejucial to the rice fields, and therefore detrimental to the natives in those indigo countries; they have done away with about two-thirds of the indigo plantations, and replaced them by sugar plantations. Some Europeans made contracts for the cultivation of tobacco, in which government had given them considerable advantages, but they have lost money. To recover that many of them made newcontracts in sugar in the place of tobacco, to reimburse them for the losses they had sustained in the cultivation of tobacco. 4739. In the regulations respecting lands, it is stated that one day in the week 0.32. F 4 is 4721.

40 W. Dennison, Esq. 1 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

is set. apart for the labourers to be entirely at the command of the cultivators of the soil ?—That is the tenure of the whole of the lands ; for how long I do not know. Though a gentleman holds lands of his own, he cannot command the labour of those people except one day in the week, which is the feudal system remaining upon those lands. 4740. But that day is compulsory labour ?—It is labour belonging to the land; but he is not obliged to remain upon the land. 4741. Whatever land he is upon he would equally have to give his labour ?— He has the right of his ground upon which his house is; he has the right of his fruit trees ; the right of his gardens, and he has the right of establishing himself and planting rice fields wherever he pleases; the owner of the land cannot compel him to pay more than is arranged by the tenure of the whole of his lands. 4742. Wherever the labourer goes, the labour for one day is compulsory?— Sir Charles Forbes had a land, I suppose, of 70 miles long, with about 70,000 or 80,000 inhabitants. It is not now the land of Sir Charles Forbes, but it is sold. 4743. Is that all in cultivation ?—No ; rice is grown upon it and coffee. Those lands that are in the neighbourhood of Buitenzorg are held by a tenure to deliver all their coffee at a stipulated price to government, with the exception of this estate. 4744. Flow do you account in this regulation for its being stated that every labourer is to be compelled to work, that the owner has a right to the services of the male inhabitants one day in the week, giving them a reasonable subsistence? —That of course increases the value of the land ; those are people that have come upon the estate by their own free will; they are quite aware that those are the regulations of the estate. You cannot prevent a man coming upon your estate and settling himself there. It is difficult to get a census of one-third of the population; where you calculate you have a population of 80,000, perhaps you have got 150,000. 4745. Sir E. Buxton.] How do you enforce this labour ?—By the regulations of the villages.

4746. What is the punishment if they do not give it?—They are put in the hands of the native chief who has the charge of the village. 4747. Can a man be sent to prison ?—If he will not do it he can leave the estate; he is free to leave it whenever he pleases. 4748. So long as he is on it he must work one day in the week ?—Yes ; if they please to make an arrangement with you to work three days a week, they say, " If I do not do that you can turn me off." 4749. What is the price of wages on the other days of the week ?—Always that which the owner of the estate can make an agreement with them for. 4750. What is the average price ?—It very seldom happens that those people will work. Though you have a population that you say you can command to work, they will not; they have got their rice fields, and that is sufficient for them to live on. 4751. Flow do you get your fields cultivated; do you cultivate your fields only on one day in the week ?—You get labourers wherever you can; you send your people round the country to collect labourers; you send the men up to the hills to look for labourers ; if you can find a respectable native who can collect 25 or 50 men, you pay him so much and you give him so much wages, as head man over them.

4752. What are his wages per day ?—They differ according to the locality; to the eastward of Sarrabaya they are paying eight to twelve guilders in the month. 4753. That is about 5s. a week ?—Yes, from 4 s. to 5s. a week; to people who do the same work I pay from four to six guilders in the month, which is from 2 to 2 s. 6 d. in the week, but you must bear in mind, in addition to that, they are allowed about a pound and a quarter of rice and their salt per day. 4754. Is.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 41

439

4754. Is that usual in all cases, whether the wages are 2 s. 6 d. or 5 s. a week? W. Dennison, Esq. —Precisely the same. 1 March 1848. 4755. Is there much-oppression of the people?—I am not aware of it. 4756. It has been stated in this country that there is something very like slaveryexisting in Java ; is there anything of the kind ?—Not a shadow of it. 4757. It is really free labour?—It is; I will give the Committee an instance of it: I had the first contract of the government, and it was upon the most favourable terms; the residents or Europeans seldom went then once or twice a year, and it had been a nest of plunderers ; when I went to reside there you would hear them beating the gongs to say that the thieves were coming to rob and to burn; you found every place barricaded to keep the people out at night. But I had not been there six months before all this was done away with and the country was perfectly free; you could sleep with your house open. I stayed there seven or eight years, and I could sleep with my doors and windows open ; if I went to Batavia I called for the head of the village and left my plate and my guns and all my property about the house. 4758. How did you effect the change ?—I was living there sometime, and the people became attached to me. It was a custom in that part of the country for these Javanese to sell their rice fields; they are lazy, as all people in tropical climates are, and improvident; and they were in the habit of selling their rice upon the fields to the Chinese two or three times over. When the time came the Chinese used to go into the country and take it where they could get it, and if they could not pay they would charge them the market price, and make a new contract for the following year. The first step I did when I came there was to represent it to the resident, who took measures to prevent it, and protect the natives; I paid them their wages every week, and I fed them well, and I gave them little trifles for themselves and for their children, and I established a good reputation. I can show the Committee three or four letters I have had from those people, which would perhaps amuse them. 4759. You treated the people well; hut is not that rather the exception than the rule?—They cannot he otherwise than well treated; the regulations of the government are such that they cannot be otherwise than well treated. I believe, in fact I am sure, no corporal punishment can be inflicted without being tried in a native court, in presence of the resident or governor of the districts, who presides. 4760. Is it not the case that the sort of obligation they are under to maintain the cultivation of sugar is felt to be a great hardship by the natives ?—I do not think so; some of them may think so, perhaps, hut I do not think they do in general. I have here my last letter from Java, of December last; we have sugar planted by government in my district 714 houws, and we have of ratoons 100 houws, and then at the private estate 160 houws in plant and 90 bouws of ratoon ; we have had planted by the natives, of their own free will, independent of any arrangement with government, at the government prices, upon their own grounds, 75 houws, without any interference on the part of the government; they really take care of it by their own free will at the government prices. 4761. They do not get a higher price for it?—They do not. 4762. Are they obliged to sell to the government all that they make at that price?—The extra part is not delivered to the government; it is an arrangement with me; I buy it from them as it grows upon the field. 4763. That shows that the government price is a remunerative price ?—It would appear so by that. 4764. In no part of Java is there anything like slavery, you say?—No; except, in the houses ; there are slaves still; domestic slaves. 4765. Do you know the number of them ?—No ; but they are very much upon the decrease; slaves are not allowed to be imported into Java, and have not been for many years. 4766. Are those domestic slaves ever used in field labour ?—Never. 4767. They are domestic slaves only ?—Yes; I do not suppose there are 20 slaves that are used to field labour; in fact, I may say that there is not one; gardeners and such people as those about the house are sometimes slaves. 4768. What is the price of a slave there ?—From 200 to 600 guilders ; sometimes 0.32. G

42 (V. Dennison, Esq.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

times 1,000 or 1,500 guilders; coachmen perhaps sell for 1,000 or 1,500 guilders. 1 March 1848. 4769. The slave trade is quite abolished, is it ?—-Yes. 4770. Is there any secret slave trade ?—I think very little; the regulations of government are so severe that there is very little means of smuggling slaves into Java. 4771. The government are honest in opposing it?—I believe so, perfectly. 4772. Mr. Moffatt.] You stated that in the export of a large quantity of sugar which came within your own experience the cost was 22 I. per ton, when it had left the island, paying freight and insurance ?—Yes. 4773. You stated that 14/. was the cost of cultivation, and that there were sundry other charges, making the prime cost upon the invoice 22 /. a ton ?—Yes. 4774. That was in the year 1844?—Yes. 4775. Are you aware subsequently to that period that any cheaper process of cultivation has been adopted?—No; I think sugar musthave been cheaper, because labour was easier to be got in the neighbourhood of Batavia, and it was in the hands of the Chinese, who can manufacture cheaper than Europeans. 4776. Subsequently to that your belief is that sugar could not be produced cheaper ?—No, the fluctuation of labour has been so very little that it could make very little difference in the manufacture of sugar; in my opinion it will be so now, because labour will become scarcer and dearer every day 4777. Therefore the cost of production will be augmented ?—Unquestionably. 4778. That cost of 22 I. a ton is exclusive of any European charges whatever ? —It is. 4778*. You also state that the lowest rate of wages that you pay to your labourers is from four to six guilders a month ?—Yes; I have some in field labour ; I used to pay three guilders a month, but I pay them more now, I believe. 4779. The labour obtained at that low price is up the country ?—Yes. 4780. Near the large towns the cost is from eight to twelve guilders?—Yes. 4781. Were the sugars in Java principally produced near the large towns, or up the country ?—They were almost entirely produced in the neighbourhood of the large towns formerly. In the neighbourhood of Batavia upon private lands, and the greatest part of the sugar was cultivated by the Chinese in those days. 4782. At the present time where is the greatest quantity of sugar grown ?— The greatest quantity of sugar is made now to the eastward of Sourabaya. 4783. What is the average rate of wages in the sugar producing part of the country ?—I think I stated from eight to twelve guilders in the sugar producing districts to the eastward of Sourabaya. 4784. What is the quality of the labour ; are those labourers able-bodied men ? —Tolerably so; they are not a large class of people ; they are rather a diminutive race of people, but strong bodied, well-made men. 4785* Are they industrious?—Generally speaking they are industrious for natives; they would rather sleep than work, I believe, if they were left to themselves. 4786. Sir E. Buxton.'] How many cane holes will they dig in a day ?—We do not make any holes, we plough and put the plants in. 4787. Mr. Moffatt.] They would generally render a fair day's work for a fair day's wage, would they ?—They would, generally speaking. I think they are much improved in that by the introduction of an improved system of agriculture. 4788. They labour for six days in the week, do not they?—For seven days in the week, which being Mahometans is the custom, with the exception of feast days, which are numerous. 4789. Was the tenure to which you have alluded attached to those sugar labourers?—No, those are all free labourers; most of chose people have their villages and their rice fields, therefore they are perfectly independent of that. 4790. How many hours a day do those employed in the cultivation of sugar labour?—I think they work 10 hours; the days are pretty much the same, from six to six, they go at six in the morning and stop at one till two and then go on to six. Not you find any scarcity of labour among the sugar plantations ? 4791. generally speaking, but sometimes we have. My manager writes me just now, that they are well provided with people. 4792. It

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4792. It is your belief that the Dutch government lose materially upon their W. Dennison, Esq. export of sugar from Java ?—I do not think they do now, they did when sugar 1 March 1848. was selling at lower prices. 4793. When was that?—Five or six years ago. 4794. Can you tell what prices they were then selling at?—No, I cannot. 4795. You state that government could produce their sugar 2 l. a ton cheaper than the native planters ?—Cheaper than European planters. 4796. Upon what data do you base that opinion?—I have not been in Java since 1841, and I have had so little time to pay attention to it that I can hardly say ; the principal documents belonging to the works I have lost or mislaid. 4797. Do you know what is the monthly value of the salt and rice which are given to the labourers in addition to their pay ?—No, I do not know how much salt they get; they get as much as they like to eat. The common price of rice when 1 first went to that part of the country was about two guilders for a picul or 133 pounds; it is now 7 and it has been as high as 15. 4798. How much rice is allowed to each man per month ?—About a pound and a quarter per diem. 4799. About one-third of a picul per month ?—Yes. 4800. That adds two guilders a month to the cost?—Yes. 4801. It would not probably be an over-calculation to say that the cost of the salt and of the rice which the labourers have in addition to their pay is equivalent to three guilders per month ?—I should not think so much as that; you must take the. price of the rice at from three to six guilders, say five guilders. I think my people get half a picul per month. They sometimes have rice in proportion to the number of their family. 4802. Two guilders and a half for the rice and half a guilder for the salt would be three guilders a month ?—I should think 2 1/2 guilders upon the whole would cover it. 4803. Your opinion is that the total cost of salt and rice is 2 1/2 guilders per month ?—Yes. 4804. Sir T. Birch.] You said you expected the pay of labourers to rise in Java ; for what reason ?—I think it will rise from the extension of the cultivation and the extension of agriculture in general. The rice fields will considerably extend, and if a man has his rice field at home he will not go anywhere to seek for labour. Before this was introduced the people who lived there had no other resources ; they were often without rice; my cane cultivation was formerly a wilderness, and out of that, instead of being now a wilderness, they have cleared 50,000 or 60,000 acres of rice field, which was formerly a nest of wild pigs and tigers and other wild animals. Therefore the resources of the natives are becoming so much greater, and if they have resources of their own they will not go from home to work ; therefore to induce them to do so you must pay them higher wages. 4805. Are you engaged in trade with Java?—No. 4806. You grow sugar there?—Yes. 4807. At what price would you undertake to deliver sugar in London 12 months hence?—I could not undertake to deliver sugar to any merchant here, because I can get 15 or 20 per cent, more in Java than merchants can give for it here in the city of London. 4808. You would not bring it here to compete with our sugar ?—It can never compete with our sugar while we can get such prices in Java. I saw some gentlemen in London the other day who bought some sugar from me in Java, and they say they will lose 20 per cent, upon it. They did not exactly lose the 20 per cent., for they did not send money to purchase the sugar, but they sent out piece-goods, and iron, and earthenware, and glass, and other exports from England, upon which they had their profits, and the produce of the island that comes into the market for sale is so small that they have not the means of getting returns without paying the highest prices; therefore 1 think that sugar will never be so cheap in Java as to induce people to import it into England, unless under those circumstances. 4809. Docs the price of sugar depend 011 the profit or loss in the adventure of the manufactured goods ?—If a merchant in London sends a consignment to 0.32. Java, G 2

44 W. Dennison, Esq. 1 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Java, and he sends an order for it to be sold in the best market, and if it is sold at a good profit, he can afford to pay more for the sugar that is to come back in return ; but if his orders are such that the agent must sell his consignment, he must invest the money, and ship it whether the article is at a profit or at a loss ; therefore, when there are so many competitors, he is obliged to pay according to instructions from his constituents in Europe. 4810. At what price might sugar imported from Java be brought into our market here ?—That is the price at which I calculate the grower would be able to bring it into this market, 22 s. 4811. Mr. M. Gibson.] That is the price now, is not it?—It is ; at least that was the calculation made in 1844, upon an account sent to me, that as to my own sugar sold at in Rotterdam, upon 500 tons there was a loss of 2,500 I. 4812. Have you any knowledge of the terms upon which sugars are admitted in Holland ; is there any difference made between Brazilian and Javan sugar }— I do not think there is any difference between the slave-grown sugar and the sugar of Java. 4813. They are admitted into free competition?—I think so. 4814. And notwithstanding that the cultivation of sugar in Java keeps increasing ?—It keeps increasing. I think it keeps increasing for this reason : the Dutch government are anxious to produce an article that will not only give employment to the surplus population in Java, but to their own shipping, which are very numerous, and very fine ships they have now. I think it is not from any profit they calculate on themselves from the sugar, but it is to give employment to the surplus population and to the commercial navy. 4815-6. Mr. Hope.'] With respect to the price of rice, which you say has been rising rapidly in Java, do you apprehend that there will be a permanent rise ?— It will depend upon the European market. We have had one or two failures of crops, and corn has been dear; and, consequently, a larger importation of rice has been shipped to Europe than before. The usual price of rice, from Batavia, used to be from 70 to go guilders for 27 piculs, whereas it has been sold at as much as 220. Then you can account for it in another way, that where a Javanese used to consume one or two pounds of rice in his daily food, he consumes now five or six. 4817. Do you think that is likely to raise the price of labour ?—I do not think it has any influence upon the present price of labour, but I think labour will rise according to the means of the labourer of providing for himself without labour. A man, generally speaking, will not work if he can live without it, and if he has his own resources he will not go out of his village to look for work; therefore I think it is more likely that the price will continue higher than it has been by a great deal, and the price of labour will be dearer; the price of rice alone will increase the expenses upon the cultivation of sugar. I find here an account sent to me that my manager has been paying about 1,500 l. for rice. 4818. It is fair then to anticipate some material rise in the cost of producing sugar, if the price of rice should keep up or continue to increase ?—Decidedly ; and there is no question that the consumption of rice increases in proportion, because now, since the improved system of agriculture, there is no doubt in the world that the people are a much healthier and stronger race of people than the people previously, so that the generation that is coming up now, who have been born in industry, and who have been taught to work, will be a much stronger and healthier race than they ever were before, accustomed as they were to cockfighting and to opium smoking. 4819. Your price of 225. per hundredweight is calculated on a low price of rice ?—It is. , 4820. And not upon the price that now rules ?—I should think it was calculated at about 4 guilders. 4821. Chairman.] I understand you to say that the price at which you could import Java sugar for the London market would be 22 s. a cwt.'?—I think so, as near as I can possibly tell. 4822. Does that leave you any profit?—This is a calculation made in 1844, upon an importation of 500 tons, which I sent to the Rotterdam market, upon which there was a loss. I have made a calculation, and I think that was the conclusion I came to. 4823. Nothing

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

443

4823. Nothing would be charged for your own superintendence?—Nothing W. Dennison, Esq. against that. 4824. Or for interest of capital?—I should think interest of capital was 1 March 1848. charged. I could make a calculation, which will come nearer than that, if the Committee wish it at any future time. 4825. The Committee do not understand you, in that calculation, to state any sum for the interest of your capital laid out?—No; I should think the interest of capital was calculated, but not for my own labour. 4826. Was there anything for your own capital?—I think not, except the interest of capital invested in the works. 4827. What capital was there invested in the works?—The capital invested in those works may be judged of from this : one-third of them were sold the other day for 25,000 I. 4828. So that there was 75,000 I. invested ?—Yes. 4829. You cannot tell off-hand whether any interest was allowed for that 75,000 /. ?—I cannot tell. 4830. What might be the average quantity of sugar that has been sent to Europe from those works?—About 1,500 or 1,600 tons. 4831. In what year was it you lost 2,500/. upon 500 tons of sugar?—In 1 844. 4832. Was that sold in the English market ?—It was sold in Rotterdam. 4833. At what price was that sold?—I think at about 29 guilders the 100 kilograms. I lost 5 s. a hundredweight; the loss arose in this way: my agents sold the sugar on my account at the market price in Batavia, when the exchange against remittances was at 20 or 25 per cent. ; they sold it as it came from the manufactory, at the full market price, for which they charged me a commission. They shipped it for me as having bought it in the market for me, and charged me a commission again. So that if they had sold the sugar in Batavia at the full market price of 14 or 15 guilders, an entry would have been made in their books of 14 or 15 guilders, giving a balance of so much in my favour, with only one commission ; whereas, instead of doing that, they sold me the sugar. The consequence was, the difference there was between the entry as carried to my credit in Batavia, and the price it sold for in Rotterdam, was my loss. By the present arrangements of the Government the cultivation of the cane has been very much improved. The Javanese are now entitled to every picul of sugar that is grown from a bouw. Some bouws yield 25 piculs, some 30, and in that proportion ; so that instead of being paid 75 guilders, they may be paid 110.

Thomas Price, Esq., called in ; and Examined. 4834. Chairman.] YOU are a West India Proprietor?—I am. 4835. Joint proprietor and joint trustee of the Worthy Park estate ?—I am joint proprietor. 4836. How long has that estate been in the possession of your family ?—Very nearly 200 years. 4837. You have visited the estate and resided upon it?—I have. 4838. In what year was that?—In 1841. 4839. Were you there the whole of 1841?—I was there a little over four months, during crop time ; it was just at the close of crop time. 4840. It is held to be the second best estate in the island, is not it ?—It has that reputation; I think not altogether in point of produce, but it was calculated as the second best estate in point of net income, by reason of the sugar being so very much better. I think that there are one or two estates in the island which make as much sugar, and only one which may be said always to make more, which is the Golden Grove estate. 4841. What is the situation of the estate ?—It is situated nearly in the centre of the island ; it is in a punchbowl, in point of fact. There appears to have been some volcanic action there originally; it has left a large amount of alluvial deposit where the estate is situated. 4842. Is there a great depth of that alluvial soil?—Wonderfully so. 0.32. G 3 4843. Washed

T. Price, Esq.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

T. Price, Esq.

4843. Washed from the neighbouring hills?—That appears to have been the original formation of it. ] March 1848. 4844. Is it less subject to hurricanes from being in this punchbowl? — I should think so. I am not aware that there was ever such a thing known there as a hurricane. 4845. Are you subject to floods?—Not at all on the cane fields. There are very heavy floods come down through the valley, but they run away through the ordinary watercourse. 4846. Are those watercourses a great advantage in turning the mills ?—The watercourse that has taken away the heavy floods is not used at all for that purpose ; that lies at a much lower level than the water we use for the mill. The water we use for the mill is taken out of a hill about a mile and a half from the works, at a great expense; there is a large stone gutter erected, which cost, I think, about 10,000 I. altogether, some years ago. 4847. Is it an estate that is considered to enjoy good seasons?—I do not think there is an estate in the island that enjoys better seasons than Worthy Park. 4848. It is not liable to excessive droughts or excessive wet ?—Such a thing is almost altogether unknown. I do not think I ever heard of a case of extreme wet or extreme dry weather affecting the crops to an extraordinary degree. We do suffer occasionally, but never to any important extent, so as to affect materially the proceeds of the crop. 4849. Nothing is more common, is it, than for one part of the island to perish from drought, while another part of the island is perishing from excessive rain?— Nothing is more common than that; by the last packet we had a confirmation of that point. 48,50. Flow far is it from that point where you ship your sugar?—About 30 miles, I believe. 4851. Is that what you call Barquadier ?—Yes. 4852. That is the point of embarkation ? —It is; it is now rather further; it used to be about 30 miles, now it is nearer 40, in consequence of the railway being opened from Spanish Town to Kingston ; the wharf where we used to ship our sugar is shut up; the proprietors of the railway have a monopoly of the carriage, and we must send our sugar to Kingston by railway, because the other wharf is shut up. 4853. Is that a loss or a gain to you ?—Practically, in point of money, I think it is a loss ; the rates by the railway were extremely high. I believe they have been reduced lately. 4854. Flow far have you to send the sugar to the railway ?—So far it would be a saving; we save perhaps about 12 or 13 miles of carriage. 4855. Can you state to the Committee the average amount of crops for 30 years prior to your visit ?—The average of the crops from 18to to 1841 inclusive, was 475 hogsheads. 4856. Can you tell the Committee what was the highest crop and what the lowest ?—The highest crop appears to have been in 1812, when it was 705 hogsheads. 4857. What was the lowest ?—The lowest was in 1840, two years after the emancipation, when it was 139 l. 4858. What has been the average since 1841?—The average since 1841 to 1847 inclusive, appears to have been 278 J hogheads. 4859. Can you tell what was the average during the years of apprenticeship ?— I have not got the data by me; the data upon which I found this calculation were taken from the Estate Book when I was in Jamaica. 4860. Do you think you shall be able to find an account of that?—I think it is very likely I may find it. 4861. Will you endeavour to furnish the Committee with an account of the crops in each year?—I will endeavour to do so. [The Witness afterwards added the following Return.]

PRODUCE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 47

445 T. Price, Esq.

PRODUCE made on Worthy Park Estate from 1810 to 1841.

1 .March 1848.

(Extracted in the latter Year from the Plantation Accounts, by T. Price.)

1810 1811 1812 1813 1814 1815 1810 1817 1818 1819 1820 1821 1822 1823 1824 1825

Hhds.

Puns.

557 456 705 560 563 477 529 560 604 497 447 479 533 487 454 I 415

243 J 197 § 309 226 242 208 I 252 247 273 239 1/2 213 204 1/2 250 188 179 1/2 178

1826 1827 1828 1829 1830 1831 1832 1833 1834 1835 1836 1837 1838 1839 1840 1841

... ... ... ... ...

Hhds.

Puns.

583 412 449 458 553 471 589 484 489 £ 426 1/2 407 371 406 342 139 2 263

284 179 I 180 179 237 213 1/2 246 228 184 181 169 149 158 190 51 100

4862. What is your estimate for the current year ?—I have only lately received the estimate of the current year from the late manager of the estate, and he estimates the crop at 468 hogsheads ; but he says if the seasons are tolerably good, and if the machinery which we have erected answers his expectations, we shall probably make ,500 hogsheads; I think, from what experience I have had of the estate, that is an extremely fair estimate ; I should think, however, 500 hogsheads might be fairly calculated on, whatever weather there may be. 4863. Your manufacturing power is as perfect as it can be made, probably ?— It is as perfect as it can be made for this extent of crop, but it is by no means so perfect as it might be if the estate were in fuller cultivation ; it is in full cultivation for the present condition of our labour and so on ; but if we were to raise 700 or 800 tons of sugar, which it is possible we might be able to do if we were better situated as to labour, we should still require a small addition to the works. 4864. Do you ascribe to the absence of labour your inability now to make as much sugar as you used to make in former years?—At present the estimate for the coming year is equal to the average of 30 years. 486,5. This is a great crop, is not it?—It is a great crop, but this crop has been caused by the exertions of my brother, who went out and planted an enormous field of canes ; in a great measure, at least, it is owing to that. In the statement here wc have a great number of acres of land which were planted in 1847, but they appear to have been planted too late, and consequently will not come into operation till 1 848. 4866. So that you have nearly two years' growth?—We have not quite that, but we have a very important portion; there is as much as 28 acres, estimated at 75 hogsheads of plant canes, out of that; and there is a very large piece of land which the attorney tells us was never properly established; he has put it at 25 hogsheads, whereas if it had been planted in proper rotation it should have given 48 hogsheads4867. Sir E. Buxton.'] That is a loss?—That is a clear loss from circumstances we could not control. 4868. It does not increase, but diminish the crop ?—No, that is included in the estimate of 468 hogsheads. 4869. Chairman.] Part of this crop of J 847 ?—The crop of 1 847 appears to have been 266 £ hogsheads; that is, there was that quantity of sugar made, I think, between the months of November 1846 and October 1847. 4870. What might be made in the year 1845-46?—Three hundred and two hogsheads and three-quarters between the same periods. 4871. A hogshead is 16 cwt. ?—About 16 cwt. net. 0.32.

4872. It

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

4872. It was in 1846 your brother expected the produce would be 700 tons? —I think it was in that year, but for both that year and the next the estimate is I March 1848. something very like that, and it is not impossible but that if all our machinery had been in order we might have made as much, but we must have been better supplied with labour than we were, in order to have made that. On the 26th of July 1846 my brother appears to have written, "I can grow and send home 700 hogsheads of sugar, and half that of rum," therefore I take it he was prepared at that moment to do so. 4873. The crop was about over then, was not it?—Yes, he was rather speaking generally; he said I can send home so much sugar for so much money. 4874. Instead of that he sent home only 260 hogsheads?—Yes; the mill and everything else went wrong, and though we might have had a crop of 266 hhds. he could not take off all the rest of his crop ; the consequence was the disarrangement of all our plans. 4875. Two hundred and sixty-six hogsheads would be about 200 tons ?— A little over 200 tons. 4876. There was that difference between 200 tons and 700 tons in the estimate and the realization of it ?—I think on looking back, speaking from recollection, the estimates he made of the sugar he could grow (supposing his machinery to be in perfect order) were founded on good data; I think the estimates were perfectly right from the seasons being exceedingly regular, and generally from the supply of labour having been tolerably regular, though not quite so then ; and we reckon that we can always calculate to a certainty what an acre of land will turn out; I have known it go so close, that on an estimate of 300 hogsheads, 299 hogsheads have been made; in fact there is no estate on the island of Jamaica on which you can calculate with such a degree of certainty what crop you can make, provided you put the plant in properly. 4877. Can you say what was the amount of additional capital that was invested in the Worthy Park estate between 1841 and 1847, which has resulted in an increase of produce up to 500 hogsheads ?—I am not aware that I could give you that exactly; there had been a very large sum of money invested in this estate, but it has been chiefly in improvements and works, not so much in planting. I find on referring to my returns here that the planting expenses have not increased in the same ratio with the additional amount of land brought into cultivation, as the other expenses have, such as works, buildings, railway, house expenses, and a variety of things which I have here. 4878. Can you give the Committee the detail ?—The detail is very long. I should observe that this statement is one which I am not able to vouch for myself, for I have not been able to go through the figures myself; it has been made by an exceedingly careful clerk, and I can perfectly rely upon his correctness. This is an account for five years, ending 31st October 1847. It would be better, perhaps, to leave out the first year, from November 1842 to November 1843, because I cannot follow out the outlay with great accuracy. 4879. Will you give the amount for each year subsequent to that?—The planter's year begins on the 1 st of August, but the accounts of the estate are made up on the 15th of December. It was necessary to include all the bills which were drawn from the island within a month of that period, the packet coming home in about a month, and therefore we have adopted the 31st of October. In the year ending the 31st of October 1844 the wages of labourers appear to be 3,575 A 19 s. 9 J in the following year, 4,013/. 10 s. 6d.; in the next year, 4,982/. 5 s. 3d.; and in the next year, 6,575 /. 18s. 5 d. This includes the cultivation of sugar-canes, manufacturing sugar and rum, foddering cattle-pens, cleaning pastures, trenching, planting corn, wages paid to head people, carpenters, coopers, blacksmiths, and sawyers. 4880. Does that include the overseers ?—No. 4881. Or anybody above the rank of overseers?—No, except those that are called head people. 4882. In short it does not include any white people ?—I think not ; there may be an American mason or an American blacksmith included in that; then there are watchmen, they are included ; storemen, Barquadier waggonage, fences, road allotment, fuel, carriage of timber, carriage of building materials, house expenses, tending stock, cleaning trash-house, making limekilns, burning bricks, people about the mill-dam and gutter, repairing labourers' houses, extra work of buildings T. Price, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

ings (this occurs in two years only), railway, messengers, miscellaneous, and last, catching rats. Those amounts which I have given to the Committee include the whole of the sums put under the several heads. 4883. Do you include all those last expenses under " wages"?—They have been put under the head of wages. 4884. You mentioned a railway?—Yes; the railway which I have mentioned is a tramway laid down for the purpose of carrying the canes to the mill. Then we come to the taxes. 4885. Will you state what the taxes are ?—It appears that the taxes for two years were paid in one, but I cannot tell how to appropriate them to each year; they appear to have been in 1844, 356 l. 17 s. 9d., that is for two years ; the next year the amount was only 31/. 6,9. 6d. 4886. How do you account for that difference?—Some of the taxes are paid under a discount of 10 \ per cent., and sometimes they are carried over to the next year. In 1846 they amounted to 345/. 9s. 4d., and in the year ending 1847 they are only 17/. 8s. Id., but that does not evidently include all the taxes which are due in that year; there is a further amount to come in—supplies and tradesmen; those are supplies from island tradesmen. I have no account of that in 1843. The supplies of tradesmen in 1844 were 692 l.; in 1845, 765/.; in 1846, 1,673/.; and in 1847, 2,904/., in round numbers. 4887. How do you account for that enormous increase of supplies in 1846 and 1847 ?—I account for it by the great amount of machinery that we sent out. Having grown more sugar, we have gone to an enormous expense in new works, and so on, and have been obliged to buy building materials in order to keep up the works. 4888. Sir E. Buxton.] It was rather money vested in improvements than yearly outgoings?—Yes, certainly, it was money invested in improvements. There may be a few things, in the shape of supplies, which were in consequence of our having more people about the place to erect our machinery. We may have been obliged to purchase food for them, and it is possible that that may form a large item in the last year ; but 1 have not got the particulars. In 1847 I have another item, under the head of " Supplies and tradesmen," of 207/. in addition to the 2,904/. I take it that that must have been an omission put in afterwards, but I have no details. The salaries of Europeans appear to have been : in 1844, 751 l. 10 s. 6d. ; in 1845, 781 /. 12s. 4 d. ; in 1846, 1,480/. 4s. Id.; in 1847, 1,236/. 5s. 10d. I account for the increase in the last two years by a new system having been adopted in some respects. The salaries of these employes were raised ; their salaries certainly were very low before, and my brother thought it would be an advisable thing to raise the salaries, and he did raise them in some measure; but I take it that there is also a large amount of this money to be put to the account of people that we have been obliged to engage for the erection of works. Our works have been so very large, that we have been obliged to take on extra hands. 4889. Then that may go to investment too ?—-Yes; part may go to investments ; at the same time the salaries were raised to an unusual extent for the island of Jamaica, but I do not know that it was to an undue extent. The import duties; I have one entry in the year 1847, of 5l. lis. I chink it is very likely that there may be some omission in that. 4890. On what is that?—That must have been upon something quite accidental. The import duties on European supplies are exceedingly light; they are hardly worth taking into the account. The next expense is " Wharfage: " in 1844 it was 63/.; in 1845, 117/.; in 1846,368/. 10s.; and in 1847, 187/. 4891. Mr. Miles.'] Was that a public wharf?—Yes, for imports and exports. You will observe that there is a very large increase. In 1846 there is an amount of 368/.; that is in consequence of our having sent out so large an amount of supplies in the shape of machinery, and so on, and the wharfage, therefore, was so much higher. " The waggonage," that is the waggonage performed on the estate in aid of the railway. Where the railway is not laid down we are obliged to employ waggons ; and this, I have very little doubt, should have been the wainage of light carts. I have not any return for 1844. In 1845 the waggonage appears to be 93 /. 11 s.; in 1846, it was 48/.; and in 1847, it was 429/. I take it that that increase arose from the same cause, the increase in the works, and the enormous amount of lime, sand, and building materials that we had to raise. We make our own bricks, and have to draw them, which is always an exceedingly expensive concern. H

447 T. Price, Esq. 1 March 1848.

50 T. Price, Esq. 1 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

cern. When you once undertake brick and mortar in Jamaica you can never get out of it again, and all the estimates fall short of the actual expense. The Jamaica Railway appears to have received in 1846, 280 l.; and in 1847, 206/. That 280 I. must have been caused also by the carriage of very heavy iron work. 4892. Chairman.] Not by the carriage of sugar; No; I think it is unlikely that they took any great quantity of our sugar. We Continued to send our produce to the old wharf, till it shut up, rather than submit to the exorbitant demands of the railway contractor, though I think it might have paid us better if we had fallen into his views at once, because it so happened that we used to carry our sugar and come back empty, except at certain seasons when the English supplies arrived, which are generally very light. But the improvements in the estate were so extensive that there were constant shipments taking place from this country all the year round, and generally very heavy goods, and the consequence was, that when the waggons went to the wharf they had to come back laden, and they had to return over a hill between 2,000 and 3,000 feet above the level of the sea; it is a more sudden rise going from the estate, but coming back it is also a very great drag. 4893. If the hill is between 2,000 and 3,000 feet above the level of the sea, it is a descent from the estate?—But we have to go into the punch-bowl, in which the estate lies, so that it is a heavy fall on to the estate. 4894. What height is the punch-bowl above the level of the sea?—That is about 2,000 feet, and the mountain over which we go is nearly 3,000 feet. 4895. So that there is 1,000 feet less total rise in taking the road from the estate to Kingston than there is in returning ?—I think about that. 4896. Mr. Miles.} What is the distance from the estate to the railway ?— I think the distance from the estate to the railway is about 15 or 16 miles. 4897. Chairman.} Have you to surmount this same hill ?—Yes. 4898. Sir E. Buxton.} In either case you have the same hill to go over?— Yes; there are two roads into the valley, one follows the course of the mountain stream that I have alluded to, and that is employed by the two other estates in the valley; the other road was made by my grandfather. I think he paid something like 20,000 I. for it; he made it at his own expense, and he got 10,000 /. from the Assembly afterwards; they said it was such a great undertaking and such a beneficial thing for the parish that they voted him 10,000 /. 4899. Chairman.] You spoke of the great labour to your stock ; did you lose a great amount of stock in those years when you were carrying up those heavy weights?—We did ; but I am not satisfied that it is to be attributed only to the weights they had to carry, though I think it is partially to be attributed to that. I believe there is no doubt that it was an extremely dry season ; fodder was very scarce, and in many cases the stock died from actual starvation, but that could not be avoided; the losses on many other estates were infinitely greater than they were 011 ours. In one year we lost something over 100 head of stock. At the same time I ought to observe, that although the stock certainly did suffer from the drought, and might have suffered in some measure from the enormous amount of work that was imposed upon them, they would not have suffered from that amount of work had there been a sufficient quantity of stock to carry out the works we had undertaken ; but we had no capital to enable us to add to the stock, and there was a new system introduced in endeavouring to do with a less amount of stock, which I rather disapproved of, and the consequence was that when we came to carry that out, we found that we had not a proper amount of stock. But then it we had had more stock we should have had less means of feeding them, unless we had imported fodder, as is done in St. Kitt's and other islands. 4900. When you brought up those heavy weights, do you know the number of cattle that were required?—I should think it took certainly not less than 16 in each waggon. 4901. Do you know how many waggons there were?—I have not got the weight of machinery here, but the last machinery that we sent, out could not have been less than between 50 and 60 tons, and over this hill they would not venture to put more than two tons in each waggon. 4902. A large portion of the machinery lay for two months at Kingston ?— There was a certain quantity at Kingston, but the greater portion was taken up almost immediately after it was landed to Spanish Town, which is 12 miles off. There were certain supplies lying at the wharf, but no great quantity; the great bulk

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449

bulk of the supplies were landed as fast as we could land them, not indeed so fast T. Price, Esq. as we could have wished, but fast enough for the works that we had ready. 4903. You were going on with the statement of the expenses of the estate ? — 1 March 1848. The account of stock purchased, after deducting those that were sold, in 1844, was 807 /.; in 1845, 480 I.; in 1846, 158 /. ; and in 1847, 744 /. The last sum in 1847 is larger than the preceding ones except 1844, inasmuch as we lost a great amount of stock in 1846, and had to make it up. Here are some miscellaneous estimates; I do not know of what they are composed ; they are 20 I. in one year, 13 l. in another, 20 /. in another, and 39 I. in another. There is a sum here marked " Charges," I do not know what they are; I think it likely that they are for stamps in the island, or something of that kind, but they amount to 18 l., in 1844; to 8/., in 1845 ; in 1846, to 10s. ad.; and in the next year to 26 l.12s. " Money expended on the road that is the road that I have just mentioned. Although it is very true the House of Assembly paid 10,000 I. for it, in the course of time the estates which formerly sent their produce by that road have sent by another road; therefore, although the parish is bound to maintain it, still the parish authorities, as I experienced when I was in the island, are so slack in their duties, that, in order not to impede the carriage we have to repair the road ourselves ; we have to send a gang of negroes six miles to do the work. In 1846 we spent 167/. on the road, and in the next year 199/. " Rum duties and licence for selling rum," for the four years, 129 /., 49 /., 19 /., and 96/. 4904. How doesit happen that the rum duties fell, since your produce was much greater in the latter years ?—There was very little rum made. I have not, I think, a correct account of the rum, though they have ventured to put down some figures as having been taken from the journal; it may be about the mark, but I think there must be some error. The calculation that we generally make in good seasons is half a puncheon of rum to a hogshead of sugar. " Medical attendance," 6 /. 10 s. 5 d., 3 /., and two guineas; there was a further amount, but it is not specified here. There appears to have been a sum of money invested in 1847 for rails, which we had sent out in previous years, and interest on their cost, and for some house furniture, and for passage-money, and so on. It makes a sum of 1,182/.; that includes a very heavy bill for medical attendance. 4905. Mr. Miles.J Do you know how much of that was for the rails of the tramway ?—I think from 400 /. to 500 /.; I think it was 500 /. inclusive of the interest. Then there is the pen ; we use the pen as a resting-place for the stock, and it is supported out of the estate, therefore it ought to come in as a charge. In 1844 the pen cost 394/., in 1845 it cost 523 /., in 1846 it cost 1,083/., and in 1847, 432 /.; that is, for the stock and salaries, and in fact all expenses of keeping up the pen : we do not breed there, it is merely used as a resting-place ; it is nearly halfway to the railway wharf. 4906. You work one set of waggons up to the pen, change there, and go on ? —We do that when we have a light load, but the general practice is for the pen to send its stock a short way towards the estate, in order to relieve the cattle coming from it. 4907. Chairman.'] Is the pen maintained solely in order to subsist the cattle? —It is for that purpose. 4908. As an adjunct to the sugar estate?—Exactly. 4909. Are these sums of 394/., 523 /., 1,083/., and 432/. severally the net charges to the loss of the pen ?—They arc; we get nothing out of the pen whatever. 4910. This is on the balance ?—This is money paid by the estate for the pen. If we were to go into the account of the pen, the pen would appear to have received a certain portion of those sums of money ; but, on the other hand, there is 544 /. in one year, which has been paid for stock to be put on the pen. The usual practice on the estate was to pay a certain sum to include the whole stock, but for a large portion of the year the stock was drafted to the pen to recruit, and so on. 4911. The pen by itself is a profitable estate?—I am not aware that it is ; I think the expenses nearly balance the receipts; it is a matter that we care so little about that we have never taken the trouble to ascertain whether it is profitable or not; it is a stable, in fact. "The European supplies" amounted in 1843 to 480 /. 10 s., and in 1844 they amounted to 443 /. 10 s. Those two years may be taken as a fair average of what the European supplies ought to amount to under ordinary circumstances, when we have made between 300 and 400 H 2 0.32. hogsheads

52 T. Price, Esq. 1 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

hogsheads of sugar. We now come to the year 1845, when there appear to have been sent supplies amounting to 2,840 /.; in 1846, 1,740 /.; and in 1847, 4,070 l. I account for that increase in this way: in 1845 we shipped a large amount of stores, railway, manure, railway wheels and axles, a sugar mill, a turn-table, and waggon wheels; in fact there was an enormous amount of money spent in those articles, but in things which were intended to be as permanent investments for the improvement of the estate; and the same thing would apply to the other years; a great number of ploughs were sent, and clodcrushers, and, in fact, every description of implements that we fancied would be of use to cane cultivation, has been sent to Worthy Park; I do not think there is any instrument at all worthy of notice that has not been supplied to the estate. The next item is " Insurance upon works," 30 /. a year; then " Sundry charges" appear to have amounted, in 1843, to 219 l.; in 1844, to 192 ; in 1845, to 116 /.; in 1846, to 450/.; and in 1847, to 263/. The total amount of money spent in those particulars only, without including any interest at all, or, in fact, any other charges (which are always to be found in the general accounts of every merchant; principally private matters and things of that kind ; but these embrace the whole of the outlay for estate purposes in one shape and another), were in 1844, 7,481 /.; in 1845, 9,865/.; in 1846, 12,852/.; and in 1847, 18,856/. I have not alluded to any point of management, nor is it my wish to do so ; I am at present giving facts which are so far useful to the Committee, as showing that there has been a certain amount of capital invested on the estate, and then I shall consider how far that has been remunerative. 4012. Sir E. Buxton.] This outlay includes investments?—It does. 4913. If there were a profit attached to the concern, those investments would yield a profit in future years ?—Certainly. 4914. Mr. Villiers.] It is not the annual outlay necessary for the estate?—By no means. 4915. Chairman.] Will you state the value of your sugar?—I can give the net value of the hogshead of sugar from 1841 to 1847 : the account which I am now going to read does not agree with the amount of sugar which appears to have been made on the estate, inasmuch as the previous account which I have read is merely an abstract from the journals of the estate, which show what was made per month. The account that I am going to read is the account of sugars which were sold and brought into account in England, but the totals would amount to about the same; it is possible that there may have been a few hogsheads sold in * the island which would not appear, therefore the total quantity of sugar in seven years will not in all probability agree with the amounts of sugar from the estate, but this will give you an idea of what the sugar fetched in this country, and it embraces large quantities. In 1841 there were 216 hogsheads sold, which netted 5,904 l. 8 s. 2d., and the average price was 275. 6d. per hogshead; in 1842 there were 273 hogsheads sold, which netted 7,309 /. 7 5. 'id., giving an average of 26 /. 155.; in 1843 there were 190 hogsheads sold, which netted 4,830/. 11s. id., giving an average of 25 l 85.; in 1844 there were 321 hogsheads sold, giving 7,940 l. 16 s. 5 d., being an average of 24/. 14 5.; in 1845 there were 214 hogsheads sold, which gave 5,865 /. 10 5. 4 d., being an average of 27 l.8 s.; in 1846 there were 212 hogsheads sold, which produced 5,503 /. 18 s., giving an average of 25 /. 19s., but in December 1846, later in the year, and which did not come into the account of 1846, there were 140 hogsheads sold in addition, and they netted 3,450/. 45. 4d., and the average price of those 140 hogsheads was 24/. 12s.; in 1847, 1 54 hogsheads were sold, which is all that I have an account of; that is quite sufficient to establish the current value, inasmuch as they were sold at about the best prices of the year; they netted 2,565 /. 145. 11 d., giving an average of 16 l. 12s. a hogshead. I have got other sugar here in the account of which I have estimates, but that I cannot give in because the sugar is not sold ; I have 80 hogsheads, and 60 hogsheads here. Now in reviewing the figures which I have given you of the average of the hogshead, the real value of the hogshead over the space of seven years, ending December 1847, that is inclusive of the low prices, was 25/. 4 s,, and the average of six years down to. December 1846, namely, on 1,566 hogsheads, here valued at 40,804/., is 26/. 1 5. per hogshead; of the 154 hogsheads which appear to have been sold in 1847, rather at the commencement of the season than otherwise, the net value is 16 l. 12 5. the hogshead, giving a difference of nine guineas a hogshead. 4916. At

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4916. At the present price what would it be?—The present price, in all proT. Price, Esq. bability, would be a guinea and a half below that, I have not been in the market lately, and therefore I know comparatively little of the present price of 1 March 1848. sugar, but, judging from what I have seen of the current prices, I think I am right in that. I find a memorandum here respecting the value of sugar at present : " The net delivery weight of one hogshead of the L. P. sugar, that is Luidas Plantation sugar, may be fairly stated at 16 1/2 cwt.," though it sometimes exceeds it. I have put it at 40 s. duty paid. A week or two ago we might have got 40 s.; I do not know what we might get now ; it would be certainly a lower price for the sugar, but that would leave a net amount of 19 s. 6d. a hundredweight, because the charges, exclusive of insurances, amount to 20 s. 6 J d.; 16 1/2 cwt. at 19 s. 6d., amounts to 15 /. 13 s. 6 d. I have taken it at 16 /. here in the calculation which I have made, in order to see whether we lost or gained at the existing price of sugar. I have raised the price instead of lowering it; I have brought it up to 16 I. instead of lowering it to 15 /., which I should be entitled to do. If I took the quality into calculation the 16/. would assume that it was a better quality than it has been of late years, and quite equal to its old quality, which was very good. I calculate that the cost of producing a hogshead of sugar and half a puncheon of rum, on this estimate, under favourable circumstances, ought to be 25 /. I am not saying that it is that, or that it has been that, but I am supposing that to be the calculation of what has been done on other estates of the same calibre. If the price of labour be materially reduced, and the newlyerected machinery turn out well, it is possible that the cost may be ultimately reduced as low as 20 I. per hogshead ; and there is this to be observed, that the larger the crop the less is the average cost of production. But in making a calculalion of this kind it is not fair to rely upon the machinery turning out very well, when it frequently turns out very ill; the value therefore of the hogshead I have stated to be 16 /., and the half puncheon of rum, at 14 l. the puncheon, is 7 /., w hich makes a total of 23 /. The cost of production is 25 /. under favourable circumstances, which do not exist at present. I hope those circumstances will exist but with that charge on the 1848 crop, which is estimated at 468 hogsheads, we should lose 936 /l, or 2 I. a hogshead. It would be proper for me to mention, for the sake of the general benefit that a statement of this kind may confer upon other parties, rather than from a desire to intrude private affairs on the Committee, that the family charges which are secured on this property, and a large advance which has been made by merchants for the purpose of improving the property, amount to a sum of money requiring an annual payment of interest from that estate alone of very nearly 3,000 I. a year. 4917. Mr. Villiers.] Those are advances that have been made by the merchant to the proprietor?—Yes. 4918. On mortgage?—No, not on mortgage. 4919. The advance is secured on the produce?—It is secured by the trustees of the estate. 4920. And an annual payment is made ?—An annual payment ought to be made. 4921. Mr. Miles.] The family have charges prior to the charges of the merchant?—Yes, there are family charges which must be met, or ought to be met, and they can only be met from this estate; and the charges are extremely high ; there is a family charge of 30,000 I. on this property. 4922. Chairman.'] That charge of 30,000 /. is over and above the debt that has been incurred by advances?—Yes; that debt was incurred for advances made for the improvement of the property. I have departed from the usual practice for the purpose of showing that under the favourable state of things which existed in 1846, notwithstanding that heavy advance, we should have been in a position to pay the interest on the debt, and have been able to make about 1,000 /. profit; whereas now we shall not be able to pay the interest of the debt, and lose very nearly 1,000 I. a year. The figures that I have given will bear me out in what I have stated. 4923. Are you taking into account the family charges as well as the debt incurred for those improvements?—Yes; I calculate that the interest on the permanent advance (for one may call it a permanent advance when there is no possibility of repaying it), requires a sum of 3,000/. in the shape of interest. 4924. At what rate of interest is that?— £.5 per cent. On the amount of 468 hogsheads we shall lose 936 /. a year, that is assuming the price that we have H 3 now; 0.32

54 T. Price, Esq,

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

now ; but supposing that we get 16 I. for the hogshead of sugar, if we make 500 hogsheads we shall lose 1,000/. or 2 /. the hogshead. 1 March 1848. 4925. Sir E. Buxton.] The more you make the more you lose?—Certainly ; there is a loss of 2 /. upon every hogshead that we raise; if we raised 500 hogsheads instead of 460, we should lose 2 I. per hogshead ; it would cost 25 l. per hogshead, and we should sell that, with its proportionate loss, for 23 /. per hogshead, with its proportion of rum. 4926. Is not the expense of producing 4-70 hogsheads or 500 hogsheads in a great measure the same ! —There is a large staff which is kept up ; and you must keep the same staff up whether you make 400 or 500 hogsheads. 4927. Therefore the loss to the proprietor is less when there are 500 hogsheads than when there are 470 ?—Yes; but hardly to an extent that you can appreciate ; and then I have put the cost of production at 25 I. per hogshead ; but it is frequently more than that; in one year it was 70 I, 4928. That includes what you laid out in machinery?—Yes. That is not to be taken as a fair average; but in putting it at 25 /., I think I have put it at the very lowest figure, and I am borne out in that by a calculation which I made in reference to another important estate in Jamaica. 4929. Mr. Villiers.] Is that your own estate?—Not my own estate; but it is an estate the figures in respect to which have been put into my hands. It is one of the largest estates at the east end of the island. That estate, in four years, down to the 31st of December 1847, spent 28,967/., and shipped 1,339 hogsheads of sugar, and 753 puncheons of rum, which gives a cost of production at 21 /. 15 s. the hogshead ; on 1,100 tons, of about 26 I. 1 s. 3 d. per ton ; the equivalent price of Worthy Park sugar would be about 24 /. per hogshead. But, on the other hand, when I put the cost of production on my estate at 25 /., instead of 22 /., as is stated here, I do it upon this ground, that that estate is within four miles of the Barquadier, the place where they ship the sugar, and my estate is 30 miles distant from the Barquadier; therefore, when I put the cost of production at 25/., I put it at an extremely low figure, and I should not be at all surprised to find that it cost this year nearer 30 /. than 25 /. This estate, which produced sugar at 22 /., is an extremely well-managed estate; it is an estate which enjoys very great advantages; it is a ratooniug estate, it is not a planting estate ; there is no great outlay required for the establishment of plants. There are excellent roads close to the Barquadier, and a good supply of labour, and the estate is under excellent management; and, in short, there is everything to make it one of the best estates in the island ; and I believe it is, in fact, one of the bestmanaged estates in Jamaica, and on that it cost 22 /. But it should be borne in mind that that sugar is worth from 3 /. to 4 /. a hogshead less than the Worthy Park sugar ; therefore, when I take that into account, there will be equally a loss upon every hogshead of sugar that is grown upon that estate. With respect to this estate of mine, if the net prices now equalled the average of the six years ending December 1846, namely, 26 /. 1 s. per hogshead, there would remain after payment of interest at 5 /. per cent. on 30,000 /., for family charges and other advances, a clear annual income of upwards of 850 /. 4930. Chairman.] What do you calculate the amount of the other advances ? —The total amount is about 50,000 /, or 60,000 /., including the 30,000 /. 4931. Can you state what was the net annual income of the estate, exclusive of any family charges, prior to emancipation ?—I think, as far I recollect, the average income of the estate was about 15,000 /. a year; it was one year as high as 30,000 I. 4932. In what year ?—It was in 1817 ; and I remember hearing my father say what the estate yielded, and that it averaged from 15,000 /. to 25,000 /. a year. When I became possessed of this estate in 1841, I took it subject to large family charges, which I felt bound to pay ; and I now find, that if I could get the same price for my sugar which I got for the six years ending December 1846,1 could go on paying the interest upon that, and upon a very heavy advance for permanent improvements on the estate. I could pay my family every shilling due for interest, and I could apply 1,000 /. towards the liquidation of the merchants' debt. But it is a very serious thing when I find that so far from doing that, I lose 2/. upon every hogshead of sugar I raise, and pay no interest at all. 4933. Sir E. Buxton.] If there were no interest to pay, you would make 1,500 l.?—Not only do I not make 1,500 /„ but at present I am losing very nearly 1,000 /. a year; that is exclusive of interest altogether. 4934. Chairman.]

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

4934. Chairman.] You gave a statement of wages paid ; are those wages plus the wages which are met by the receipts on rum, or are they the entire wages paid on the estate ?—They are the entire wages paid on the estate. 4935. From those wages is to be deducted the receipts for rum sold in the island?—It might be put in that form; but I have taken no account of rum, because the rum account is not quite clear; for instance, in 1841-42, the ruin is put down as 122 puncheons against 299 hogsheads; in 1843 there are only 59 1/2 puncheons against 232 hogsheads; in 1844 there were only 82 puncheons against 261 hogsheads; in 1845 there were 135 puncheons against 309 hogsheads; in 1846 there were 146 puncheons against 303 hogsheads; and in 1847 there were 138 puncheons against 266 hogsheads ; and I have no good reason for saving that those figures are not strictly correct, inasmuch as they have been drawn out by an extremely careful person, and I think he would not have overlooked so important a thing as that; therefore I think it may be taken .is the amount of rum that was made on the estate ; but I have no means of showing what amount that rum did fetch in the island. But my original statement was made without entering into the question of what the rum was worth, or what amount the sugar or rum fetched in this country, and I expressed my opinion generally that it would take 25 I. to raise a hogshead of sugar, and half a puncheon of rum, under good management; but I abstained from referring to what the sugar had actually cost me ; otherwise, if I took for my data what the estate raised last year, I might have given as the cost of raising a hogshead of sugar 70 /. instead of 25 l. 4936. If you can give us the gross revenue of the estate we can deduct it from the expenditure, and we shall then be able to judge what the estate loses, or what it will gain hereafter?—I am not at liberty to give the Committee the particulars of private accounts, but in round figures I can state it. I wish the account was balanced at the end of the year, but it includes interest advanced in some cases which was not met by the estate. 4937. It includes the interest paid on advances made by the merchants ?— Yes ; it appears in the current accounts. 4938. Sir T. Birch.'] And also the mortgages ?—Yes. 4939. Chairman.] When was the interest on the mortgages last paid ?—The interest on the mortgages was paid at Christmas 1846. 4940. Was it paid out of the revenue of.the estate, or out of borrowed money ? —Out of borrowed money ; it was advanced by the merchants. 4941. When was the interest last paid out of the annual revenue of the estate ? —The last year in which it can fairly be said to have been paid out of the estate was 1843. 4942. In 1843 the interest on the family charges was paid out of the net annual income of the estate?—In this manner it was paid out of the income of the estate: In 1842 we paid the interest upon the family charges and paid off 1,000 l. of the principal debt; in 1843 there was a loss on the estate, but if we had not paid 1,000 I. off in the previous year, that 1,000 l. would have enabled us to meet the interest in the year 1843. 4943. In 1842 the estate paid the interest of the family charges, and 1,000 I. beyond?—Yes; and we bought 1,200 acres of land to add to the estate. 4944. That was out of the 1,000 1.?—That was in addition to the 1,000 /. 4945. What was paid for the 1,200 acres?—£. 200. 4946. Then in 1842 the estate paid the interest upon the charges and there was 1,200 /. surplus, and in 1843, if you had paid the charges, there would have been a loss, but by making use of the 1,200 /., the surplus of the year before, the estate would have been able to meet the charges in 1843 ?—Certainly. 4947. In 1842 and 1843 the revenue of the estate balanced the charges?— Yes. 4948. But cleared nothing for the proprietor ?—It is possible that it might have left 200 /. or 300 /. 4949. In 1842 and 1843 was there any new investment of capital on the estate ?—The outlay on the estate commenced in the latter part of 1843, or rather in the commencement of 1844. 4950. What was the extra outlay in 1843 ?—The drafts from the island appear to have been comparatively high in 1843; the drafts in 1842 amounted only to 5,548 l., and the rum at that time was nearly all sold in the island, and so it was in the following year, and in 1843 the drafts of the island were 7,000/. 4951. May I assume that the difference between 7,000 I. in 1843 and 5,518 /. 0.32. H 4 in

453 T. Price, Esq. 1 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

in 1842, was fresh investment for permanent improvement?—I should think it might have been; it arose from the measures adopted by my brother, who went l March 1848. in 1843 ; he began his improvements then. 4952. Then the real fact of the matter is, that if no new investment had been made upon the estate, which increased the charge in 1842 and 1843, there would have been a surplus, of 1,442/.?—Yes, provided there had been no extra outlay. 4953. So that the estate was equal, upon an average of the years 1842 and 1843, to pay the family charges, and clear an income to the proprietor of about 775/. a year?—Precisely ; at the same time I ought to remark that the estate at that period was not one half in cultivation; our works then, though they were not so complete as they have been made since, were capable of making a much larger amount of sugar than we were then growing. 4954. That was from the want of labour?—Yes, there was a great want of labour when I was there in 1841 ; we got labourers four days a week, and they turned out when they liked, and came when they liked. 4955. In the year when you were there, 1841, with the same works, if you had got labour, you could have made twice the quantity of sugar?—Undoubtedly ; that is, assuming that I could have got the labourers to have worked at night, or a portion of the night; the works were,capable of making, with due attention, 25 hogsheads a week, supposing we could have worked a part of the night. 4956. Sir E. Buxton.] You mean that the same negroes who worked in the day should work at night ?—Yes ; we arc hardly ever able to get that done now The great loss is in getting our fires up ; when we have got the fires up, there is great saving of fuel in continuing to work at night. 4957. Chairman.] The number that is necessary to work by night as well as day, is not above six or seven per cent.?—I am not sufficiently acquainted with the details of the management to be able to say, but I should think that it would be necessary for very few to continue working at night. 4958. Were you in Jamaica during crop time?—Yes ; during the latter part of crop time. 4959. Do you know how many labourers you employed in crop time? — I do not remember. I do not think I ever had an account of the number of people that we employed. 4960. Had you 100?—Yes, I should say 200 or 300 ; but latterly we have had as many as 1,400 or 1,500 people residing on the estate, but not a fifth part of them working people. 4961. Sir E. Buxton.] Women and children?—Women and boys were included. I do not think children in arms were included. 4962. Chairman.] Were there as many as 30 labourers employed at night in the manufacture of sugar?—Certainly not; we had no night work at all in my time : they struck work at the usual hour in the afternoon, and we never saw anything of them till the next morning. 4963. How many hours do they work in the field ?—They generally went out at seven o'clock in the morning, and they would work, with an hour's rest, till about 12, as far as I can remember, and they then turned out again at two or three o'clock and worked a couple of hours in the afternoon. 4964. They worked about six hours in the day?—Yes, and every other week they only worked four days; the usual days of work were Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and every other week they worked on Friday; the Saturday they always took for themselves. 4965. What were the wages they received for those six hours' work ? — A man at, that time could earn from 1 s. 6 d. to Is. in the six hours. 4966. That was the average ?—As far as I can recollect, it was about that. 4967. Had they provision grounds besides?—'They had. 4968. Freer—They were free part of the time, or rather they paid rent, part of the time, for it was for a few months only that the system of charging rent was followed. 4969. Is it abandoned at this time?—Yes, they occupy their houses and grounds perfectly free. 4970. Do you know what wages they are receiving now ?—'They are receiving as nearly as possible from 1 s. to 1 s. (i d. a day for ordinary field labour; the headmen of course get more. 4471. Now T. Pike, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 57 4971. Now that the permanent improvements have been made, what would he the annual charge for coloured people to work the estate?—I have no means of saying. 4972. I see that in 1844 you state the wages as 3,576 /., and in 1845, 4,013I. ? —Yes, I am in great hopes that the wages will be in some degree reduced on that particular estate, inasmuch as the two neighbouring estates, though not at present quite thrown out of cultivation, I believe from the death of one proprietor and the distresses of another, will be in all probability thrown up ; therefore we shall get an accession of labourers, because we shall have the whole valley to ourselves. 4973. Then you expect to benefit by the ruin of your neighbours ?—Yes. 4974. You think that whenever the other estates fail, the effect will be that there will be more labourers in the field, and consequently competition will reduce the rate of wages ?—Yes; I hope that will be the case, provided we can keep ourselves afloat under this heavy charge. 4975. I find that the wages averaged 4,000 /. a year for the years 1844,1845 and 1846; but 9 I. a hogshead upon your produce of 500 hogsheads, gives 4,500 I. a year; it would seem, therefore, that so far as the wages are concerned, if you could reduce them to nothing it would not make a difference of 9 I. a hogshead to you ?—I do not think it would at the present prices; if our sugar was raised for us and put on board ship, as far as wages went we should still be where we now are. 4976. Sir E. Buxton.'] You mean that if the wages were nothing it would not pay you?—I should think it would not. I do not speak confidently on that subject, not having gone into it; but in the way the Chairman put it, I think it is clear that that would be the result. I refer to the field wages. 4977. If the labour expended in the field on raising the sugar cost nothing, still it would not be equivalent to 9 /. a hogshead, the reduction of price?—It would not according to my estimate, which is, that we lose nine guineas a hogshead, as compared with the average of six years. 4978. That proves that it is owing to some other circumstance than the high price of labour that there has been a great loss?—If we had carried the estate on prudently through those prices at 26 l. a ton, the estate would have paid; we should have been paying our interest, and perhaps a portion of the principal. 4979. Mr. Miles.] Up to the fall in the price of sugar ?—Yes ; but the prices that we have obtained were good prices; they were not so good as they used to he; but the primary cause of the distress on the estate was raising money upon an estate already indebted; but at the same time we were to a certain extent justified in doing that, inasmuch as we had a large extent of cane land which was never known to fail, and we were told that we were not sufficiently active, and that we had not invested money enough in improvements ; in point of fact, that our system of cultivation was as slovenly as it could be. We were pressed by Her Majesty's Government to improve our works, and, in fact, to become better farmers; and therefore, though the estate was weighed down by debt, it was thought prudent by the managers of it to travel out of the way, and raise money for additional improvements. But we had the prospect of getting a good return for that sugar; and borrowing such a sum as 30,000 /. upon an estate which used in its worst days to give 15,000 I. a year, was really no great piece of imprudence. But now that we have come down to 16 I. a hogshead, all our folly stares us in the face; it shows that we have completely sacrificed the interest of all parties connected with the family, merely because we chose to rely upon the existing prices. If the Government four years ago had told us that sugar would fall to 16 /. a hogshead, we should not have raised one shilling upon it, much less 30,000 /., and we would not have invested one sixpence in improvements. 4980. Chairman.] Can you state what the returns of the estate were in the years 1835, 1836 and 1837, the years of apprenticeship?—I have no means of giving that information. The estate at that time was not in my possession, and 1 have no papers upon the subject. My father was in possession in 1834 and I remember hearing him say, the year before he died, that that year was the'lowest he ever knew, and he looked upon himself as ruined ; he gave up his hounds, and dismissed two of his livery servants. He had 13,000 I. a year but he said he was a ruined man. ' 4981. Did your father die in 1834 -Yes. 0.32. I 4982. What

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58 T. Price, Esq. 1 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

4982. What became of the estate in 1835 ?—It was carried on by the trustees, and my father's executors; and they paid off a considerable amount of money between 1834 and the year it came into my possession in December 1840. 4983. Can you give the Committee any notion of what the sum was that was paid off in the interval ?—As far as I can recollect there was a sum of between 50,000 I. and 60,000 I. paid off; but I may be wrong to the extent of 10,000 I. 4984. Can you state what the present social condition of the labourers in Jamaica is?—I have a letter here from an extremely intelligent gentleman, a friend of mine in Jamaica. I do not know that there is any objection to mention his name, it is Mr. Gilbert Shaw, a well-known attorney in Jamaica, and a man of extremely high character and great ability; he has resided for 25 years in the island, and thoroughly knows it from beginning to end, and he is to be relied upon in the highest degree. The date of the letter is the 30th of December 1847. The letter is written in answer to one that I wrote to him, and in my letter I gave him a lull sketch of the difficulties of the estate, and the prospects that we had before us as to the estate, and I asked his opinion as to how far he thought it was likely the estate would get out of those difficulties at the existing price of sugar. He has not answered that question fully, though he has glanced at it, but knowing my interest in everything connected with Jamaica, he has entered very fully into the subject. 4985. Will you be good enough to read the letter?—"Dear Sir,—When I was last doing myself this pleasure, I had to break off very abruptly in order to try and save the packet, which was, very unexpectedly to me, ordered off some 36 hours sooner than usual, and after all I was too late. Since that time I have been much and anxiously occupied endeavouring to keep things going and the estate from suffering, in consequence of the noting of my bills by the trustees. The terrible scarcity of money, which as it exists to so great an extent in England, you may imagine is not less felt here; the alarm and apprehension at the banks, and in the mercantile, and indeed entire community, at, I may say, the numberless bills which have been protested in like manner, have brought about a crisis which seems to paralyze every one. Money cannot be procured on almost any terms, and property of all kinds is stripped of the uncertain adventitious value it has for a long time held. On all sides, I hear of really good estates being abandoned by the proprietors, and there does not appear any one ready to come forward to carry them on either as lessees or purchasers. In this state of things it would be impossible for me to form even a guess at the probable result. The island is herself utterly destitute of the power to help the inhabitants, or do anything to create confidence in property here, which is in fact the thing that is really wanted. Government do not seem to care much about us, or to know that anything is really wrong, and they apply their measures of relief to us, one would fancy, more in derision of our distress than with any pure intention of benefiting the West Indies. I trouble you with these remarks, because the present state of the country renders all attempts at calculation as to probable consequences entirely valueless. I think as we are just now, no man can give a probable guess as to the position of Worthy Park, or any other estate in Jamaica, six months hence. Our position is entirely unprecedented, and it would be impossible for me, with reference to your favour of the 16th September last, to place before you anything founded on experience, upon which any reliance could be placed. The difficulties to which we are now exposed arise solely from external causes over which we have no control, and in consequence it is possible we may look upon them as insurmountable, while you, who live in the centre from which all these causes proceed, may see some room for hope and better prospects hereafter. It seems to me that little short of a miracle will save this country. There is no doubt that even as things have been, morality, religion, and all that tends to the increase of pure civilization, lias been retrograding in this unfortunate country among the lower classes. The sectarian influence, which was ever in reality a political, and not a religious influence, is lost; their schools are deserted. The emancipated people being uneducated are incapable of appreciating the benefits of education, or of inculcating morality or social virtue; they are satisfied with having achieved their freedom, and care for nothing more. The population are, therefore, really retrograding in civilization, and I cannot see how this is to he prevented. The question of educating the lower classes, and raising them in the scale of social beings, has attracted much attention of late years here, and considerable sums have been annually voted by the Assembly for this purpose, and I doubt not

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING 59 but in time much would have been accomplished ; but I think it is plain a scheme of this kind can never be carried out or sustained, except the island is in a flourishing condition, her agriculture and her commerce in a prosperous state. We have now broadly brought before us the fact that rich proprietors in Jamaica are abandoning really good estates because they do not pay, and poor proprietors are doing so likewise, because their property has no appreciable value in the opinion of any capitalist, and he cannot obtain the means of carrying it on. It is impossible of course to imagine to what extent this is likely to be carried; but I should not be at all surprised to see two-thirds of the property in Jamaica annihilated. Should this take place, or should anything approaching to it happen (and there requires no stronger pressure than that now existing to bring it about), the country will be unable to sustain her institutions even by all the heavy extra taxation to which the surviving property may be subjected. The retrogression of the inhabitants towards barbarism must be fearfully accelerated. Altogether I cannot picture to myself anything more gloomy than the prospects of the better class in this country, who cannot leave it, and who must remain come what will. With such prospects before us, and with so little hope, I repeat, it is impossible to give a well-founded conjecture as to the results to particular estates. As regards Worthy Park, I would take the liberty of advising you to adhere to that which you have expressed in the concluding paragraph of your letter : ' When difficulties occur, divest them of everything but reality.' The difficulties which beset Jamaica directly tend to sap the foundation upon which the superstructure of society is built; whilst this is going on, and no means whatever are taken to arrest its progress, the reality of the jeopardy in which our property, and more than that are placed, must be apparent, I think, to all. I fear I shall tire and annoy you by writing in such a strain as this ; but I doubt, if I was to try again, I would not succeed in showing less anxiety on this subject, which, as it appears to me, is all important just now. The estate is in really good order, as far as the field is concerned, and we will begin the new year at a greatly reduced call for expense. What the general result will be at the end of the crop I cannot foretell, everything will depend upon the price of produce. As you may understand from this letter, I have no faith in our ability to stand up against the slave grower of sugar. He will destroy us, and then obtain a higher price for his produce than ever we did, and when Government wish to assist us we will be past all relief. Among the estates likely to go, I think and may be named ; the former is, in fact, now for sale, and, of course, no one will buy. In happier times it would have been a splendid addition to Worthy Park ; almost all the St. Dorothy estates are gone, I may say. Many in Vere will go, and eight or ten in Clarendon arc decided on, and more will follow. Immigration is worse than useless now. I remain, dear sir, yours, very truly, Gilbert Shaw." 498G. Was Mr. Shaw, at the time lie wrote that letter, in the management of your estate ?—He was. 4987. Your brother had not got out there ?—No; not when Mr. Shaw wrote that letter. 4988. Sir E. Buxton.] The letter ends with saying that" immigration is worse than useless now ;" do you agree with Mr. Shaw in that opinion ?—Most undoubtedly. 4989. You think it is in vain to attempt any further immigration into Jamaica? —I do not think it would be in vain if the Government would give us assistance, in order to enable us to get over our difficulties in the mean time. 4990. Do you think that Government lending money to enable you to import free negroes would be a real assistance to you ? —Unless the Government pay us a remunerating price for the crop that we have on the ground, and assist us somewhat further in the way of immigration, I do not think we can succeed. 4991. You think that no form of free labour can compete with the slave labour of the foreign colonies; or at all events, that our colonies, with free labour, cannot compete with the foreign colonies which have slave labour?—That is my opinion. I am not prepared to say how it might be if we had labourers at 2 d. a day ; but unless we can obtain the advantage of such labour as that, the estates must go into other hands, and all our investments of capital must be thrown away. 4992. Have you any papers to show the number of slaves that were on the estate at the time of emancipation ?—I have not here ; but I think the number was from 500 to 600. 0

31 2

4993. Can

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60 T. Price, Esq. 1 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

4993. Can you state the number that there were on the estate 10 years before that?—No. 4994. Do you know whether the number had increased or diminished?—I have not the information by me to enable me to state. 4995. Can you state the number of labourers now?—The population on the estate is from 1,000 to 1,500. 4996. And the wages are from 1 s. to 1 s. 3 d. a day ?—Yes. Some get as low as 9 d., but those are lads and women. 4997. Do you chiefly use piecework?—Yes; it is chiefly piecework. There is some work that cannot be done by the piece. 4998. You stated, did you not, that the wages were 1 s. or 1 s. 6 d. a day ?— There are some at 1 s., and some at 9 d., and some at 1 s. 6 d., and some ait 2 s., and some even at 3 s. 6 d. It depends upon the nature of the work to be performed. 4999. What are the average wages of the common field labourers ?—The average was 1 s. 6 d. ; what it is now I am not prepared to state. I think Mr. Shaw has attempted a reduction, not in the daily wages, but in getting more work done for the money. ,5000. You have no account of the diminution in the wages?—I have had accounts of that kind ; he has got more canes cut for the same money, but I think there must have been a still further reduction lately ; I am prepared to expect that. 5001. You expect that there will be a considerable reduction of wages, in consequence of the panic that has taken place in Jamaica ?—I think that is to be expected ; that is, supposing those estates are thrown out of cultivation ; and it follows just as night follows day that those estates must be thrown out of cultivation unless persons in this country who have money are ready to carry them on ; there are no persons in Jamaica ready to do it. 5002. How many hours a day do the negroes work ?—I do not think that they work more than six or seven hours a day, except in cases of piecework; there is a very large class of labourers in Jamaica who work in that manner, more for the sake of furnishing themselves with little luxuries, which they purchase in their holidays, than for any other purpose. They have a great many holidays, Sundays, and so on, and if they want to buy a bottle of Champagne they will work for a week or a fortnight, till they have earned a couple of dollars, and then you do not see their faces for two months. 5003. You have found that the difficulty, in regard to labour, is its not bein<r continuous?—Undoubtedly; it is one of the great difficulties that we have to contend with. When I was in the island, in 1841, I had commenced to clean the young plants, and if you do not clean them within a few days after they are on the ground it entails very serious consequences on the crop ; I have seen men at work upon that; they have gone through a quarter of it, and then gone away, and you would not be able to finish the work within another month. ,5004. Can you suggest to the Committee any remedy for that, which would not unfairly infringe upon the freedom of the labourer?—You have asked me a question which it is very difficult to answer; that is a matter which depends entirely upon the wants of the labourer himself. 5005. But maintaining freedom to a fair degree, can you suggest any law which would give you continuous labour?—I cannot indeed, not consistently with freedom, unless you adopt a species of apprenticeship, such as we had after emancipation ; nothing short of that will do it. 5006. Mr. Miles.] A further supply of labour would do it?—A further supply of labour might have the effect of accomplishing it, but the black population that we had imported, and they are the only people that we have had to depend upon, the Coolies, have not answered. On the greater portion of the estates they are able in a few weeks to earn sufficient money to buy an acre of land, and then they become squatters. 5007. Sir E. Buxton.] Have you an account of the number of days that each man has worked upon your estate ?—I cannot give the account in reference to each man ; there are some of our old negroes who are attached to the estate, and who continue to work very steadily. Ours is almost the only estate in the island where they have an old body of negroes; they have a local attachment to the place, and they do not leave us. But there is hardly any man there that works l the year round ; they work upon the average from two to three days a week ;

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 61

459

T. Pi ice, Esq. the men work for a month, and then rest for a month. In fact it is all work at one time, and then all play. 5008. Do you give that as a general description of the island ?—As Far as my 1 March 1848. experience went when I was in the island, in 1841, that was the general rule. I did not go through the whole island, but on all the estates that I visited that was the rule, and from report it appeared to me to be the same in other parts of the island. 5009. Did you find that the labourers who were imported worked better ?—I have heard of some that were imported from the coast of Africa that worked remarkably well, but none except those have done us any good at all. 5010. You stated that your loss was 2 I. per hogshead ?—I expect that it will be 2 I. per hogshead, provided we raise the sugar at 25 I. per hogshead, but I do not pledge myself to our raising it at 25 I.; on the contrary, I think it will be nearer 30 I. than 25 I. 5011. You would lose 2 I. a hogshead here, whether you made 470 hogsheads or 500?—Yes. I do not think the other 30 hogsheads would make a material difference; it would make a difference whether we made 350 or 500 hogsheads. 5012. You do not mean to say that you would rather make 470 than 500 hogsheads ?—No, certainly not. 5013. In fact, the total loss would be less if you made 500 hogsheads than if you made 470 ?—It would be in a slight degree less. 5014. You stated that in 1845 and 1840 your estimate was from GOO to 700 hogsheads ; did your not succeeding in raising that in the last year arise from your machinery not being in order, or from want of labour?—It arose principally from the machinery not being in order; though I think it very doubtful whether we might not have had to raise the wages; but the real cause was that our machinery was not in order ; the estate was well supplied with labour at that time. 5015. Then, in fact, it was a misfortune that might have happened under any system, either of freedom or slavery, of free trade or protection ?—As far as regards the simple fact of the machinery not succeeding, there is no doubt that it would have been the case; hut it we had had slaves there instead of free labourers, we might have had the machinery put up in half the time. 5016. Was not this failure in the machinery owing to some miscalculation in sending it out, and that you had to send to England for some part of the machinery which was deficient ?—No, that is not the fact; there was a misfortune ; the mill did not succeed in the way we expected it would, and a portion of it broke ; hut my own opinion is, that whether the mill broke or did not break, the water power that we have on the estate was not sufficient to drive so large a piece of machinery. It was certainly an accident, and it was a matter to he deeply regretted that we departed from the mill that we had previously, which was an eight-horse mill, and substituted a fifteen-horse mill, but with the same power, which was sufficient only to drive the eight-horse mill. But I am hound to say that when it was ordered, engineers in the island gave us their testimony that the power was sufficient to drive a fifteen-horse mill ; and the machinery was not ordered without taking the opinion of the best engineers in the island ; but the island engineers are not equal to a task of that kind. 5017. It was an error which had nothing to do with the want of labour in the island ?—No, nothing whatever, except that when we had to pull down the old machinery and erect new machinery, if we had had slave labour we should have done it in half the time, in all probability, and have saved half the crop. 5018. At what time was the sugar sold which you sold in 1847 at 16 /. a hogshead ?—The salts were spread over the early part of the year, between January and September. 5019. But there was a great fall in the end of 1847 ; was it before or after that great fall took place ?—I think it would include a portion of that great fall. 5020. What system do you think would enable you to recover your estates?— The only system that 1 could calculate upon with any degree of confidence would be a system of protection ; I am not aware of any other system. 3021. What protection, in your opinion, would be sufficient?—As far as I am concerned personally in this estate, in order to give a moderate return for the capital we have invested in the estate, no larger a return than a landlord in this country would expect from his estate, I think it would be necessary to have a protection of 10 s. a hundred weight. 0.32. I 3 5022. Would

62 T. Price, Esq. 1 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

5022. Would you think it necessary that that protection should be continued for ever, or for a great number of years ?—By no means ; if the protection were accompanied by such measures as would give us a supply of labour in Jamaica at 2 d. or 4 d. a day, we might get out of the difficulty. 5023. How many labourers do you imagine would be necessary for the whole island ?—I am not able to say. .5024. Would you think it necessary to double the present number of labourers ? —I should like to treble them, if we could. 5025. Have you any reason to suppose that it is possible for the Government to get free labour to that amount?—As far as the information goes that I have obtained from reading reports, I think there is a sufficient supply of labour to be had from the coast of Africa. 5026. Free labour?—Yes. 5027. Have you reason to believe that it is free labour?—As far as I am able to judge from reports I have read, I do think that there would be no difficulty in obtaining a large amount of free labour from the coast of Africa. 5028. And you would expect to obtain it at from 2 d. to Ad. a day ?—I cannot say that; I mentioned that as the price at which I have understood labour is to be had in the East Indies; but if we could bring our labour down to 6 d. a day we might manage to get on, and we might trust to be able to cheapen it afterwards, if we had a protection to carry us on for the next few years. We might either have a protection of 10 s. or 12 s. for the next few years, or a smaller protection, to carry us on for a longer period, but I should prefer a larger protection, to extend over four or five years, provided it were accompanied by some measure for a good supply of labour. 5029. Would you recommend that the Government should take the charge of importing those negroes ?—I think the Government should bear the expense of it; I should be very much surprised if Government were to ask us to bear any portion of it; I think they have no right to do so. 5030. The expense of importing that number into Jamaica would be from 400,000 I. to 500,000 l., would it not?—I have not made any calculation of that. 5031. But if the colony goes on, the Government must bear the expense of that?—At first, I think, the Government ought to bear tbe expense of inundating the country with free labour, after what we have suffered at their hands. 5032. But you have not made any calculation of what the expense of that would be ?—No, I have not. 5033. Mr. Miles.\ I understand that you regard this as entirely a question of labour ?— Certainly. 5034. You would not be afraid of not being able to continue the sugar cultivation, provided you could get labour at a cheap rate ?—I do not see what is to hinder our competing with slave labour provided we get labour at the same rate. The amount of capital invested in land I should think is about the same in the two cases. 5035. You have been at great expense in importing machinery, and in using agricultural implements; has that had a considerable effect in reducing the amount of labour employed on the estate ?—I think that is very questionable, but I think it has very much improved our system of cultivation. The land has been greatly improved by the introduction of agricultural implements, and the system of cultivation generally has improved; but it takes a large number of cattle to work the plough or to work the harrow, or anything, in point of fact, of that sort. 5036. Can you state the number that are required ?—The plough has been in operation for 30 years on our estate ; but when I was there in 1841, I found that they usually employed 12 oxen to draw one light plough in the lightest soil, in good free soil. 5037. How many for a harrow ?—Eight. 5038. Has that number been reduced since?—When I was there I saw a man working 12 oxen, in a team, with only a light plough, and I endeavoured to get him to use six oxen instead of 12; and I turned off'six of the cattle, and insisted upon the man working on with the remaining six. I was riding round the estate, and when I returned I found that the man had got his 12 oxen again; and the attorney said to me at the time, " If you try to do this you will fail, they are accustomed to 12 oxen, they like the ceremony of 12 oxen, and 12 oxen they will have;" and I believe they use 12 oxen to this day. 5039. If

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

5039. If you had insisted upon reducing the number of oxen, do you imagine that you would have lost your labourers?—Yes ; they would have thrown down their whips and gone off. If you were to sell yourselves for gold and give it to them, they would not take it; they would have their fling at once. 5040. In your estate has there been any improvement in the machinery for the manufacture of sugar?—No ; the only thing we have done is to make the clarifiers better, and the sugar-pans are better. 5041. Is it the old apparatus that you use ?—Yes. 3042. There is no vacuum pan ?—No. 5043. Have you an engine on the estate?—Yes, we have an engine; it has been tried and been found to be in good working order, but it has not been used yet. 5044. What do you use ?—The estate made this enormous return with one of the old vertical mills. 5045. Was it a cattle-mill ?—A water-mill; there was a cattle-mill used years ago, which has been left standing in case of any accident, but it has been abandoned for many years. 5046. Have you now abandoned the water-mill ?—No, we have kept it as our mainstay, and if we could look forward to better times we should be induced to put up a new mill, a third mill, in the place of the one we have now. 5047. A mill suitable to the power of the water ?—Yes ; I should like to do so if we could afford it. 5048. It was not by your advice that the steam-engine was sent out?—Yes; there was a strong opposition to it on the part of my brother, he differed from me, and very properly; he said that water power was the cheapest power, and that we ought to keep to it, but I saw that the water power was not equal to the machinery. We had gone to an enormous expense in extending the cane field, and unless we had more power all the money would be wasted. My brother wrote one letter disapproving of it, but the next time he wrote he said he had considered the matter, and he consented to the engine being sent. 5049. Have you any means of increasing the water power?—I think it is likely that a skilful engineer might he able to increase the power, but we have nearly sufficient power now to manufacture as much sugar as the estate could grow if we could get the labourers to work at night as well as in the day. 5050. What quantity of sugar might be made per week?—Thirty hogsheads ; we ought to make 30 hogsheads per week. 5051. Have you more than one set of pans?—Yes; we have a double set of taches. 5052. And you have a small tramway?—Yes. 5053. Of what length ?—There has been a mile and a half sent out. 5054. Of railway iron ?—Of rolled iron made for the purpose. 5055. Was it second hand ?—No, it was new ; it was very light, and I am afraid that we took a false step in having it so light; it was only 14 pounds to the yard, and it required an additional number of chairs, so that the bearings, instead of being three feet, were one foot six. 50.56. What was the cost ?—I think that the railway, without including the cost of railway waggons, and so on, could not have been laid down under 1,000/. 5057. Can yon state what the total cost of the mile and a half was -I think it could not have been far short of 1,500/. or 1,600/., and I should not be surprised if it were 2,000/. 5058. Do you think that the plan has answered ?—I think it is very questionable. I think the principle of a tramway in the field is a very good one, and that it was worth trying, but at the time it was sent out I was opposed to it. I stated that it was a new thing, that would upset the old system of employing cattle and pens; and that if you did not succeed you would have got rid of the cattle and pens, and have to lay out money in buying them again, and therefore I was averse to the experiment being made in the then state of the land. From information I have received since, I believe the principle has answered ; but I doubt very much whether it has been done at less cost than the old pens and cattle. There is this to be said, that the fewer cattle you have, the more your estate will deteriorate in value, because you lose the manure, or you do not make so much, and that forms an important item. 5059. What quantity of cattle have you upon the estate ?—About 280. 5060. They average 10 l. a piece ?—We have paid as much as 16/, but I think 12/. .4

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

12 l. might be taken as an average; but the estate ought to have 450 head of stock upon it to make a large crop. 5061. Are you enabled to say that you would extend the quantity of railroad if there were any chance of going on with the cultivation ?—I am not prepared to say that; I should require more information than I at present possess before I gave that opinion. 5062. You would not recommend any person to follow your example in that respect ?—I think there are some situations where it might be done to great advantage. I think it is worth trying; the great difficulty is the expense of carrying the canes from the interior of the cane piece to the point where the tramway is laid down; it is a moveable tramway, and there are small branches; they have to shift the line, and have to carry it on the heads of negroes to the point where the canes are to be loaded, so that there is all the time wasted in going backwards and forwards. 5063. Then in reality you do not think it has tended to save labour ?— I think it is very doubtful ; but I think it is a matter of some importance in good hands ; if we had skilful men there, who understood the working of railways, and who understood the laying it down, and ballasting and keeping the main line in repair, and if we had sufficient traffic upon that line all the year round, to prevent oxidation on the rails, I think it is possible it might answer; but at present, if you leave a piece of iron out there for three or four months without any traffic over it, the oxidation is so great that there is an enormous wear and tear. 5064. Is there a great expense in actually keeping the road itself in order?— There ought to be very trifling expense; it is worked by mules; and if it were properly ballasted in the dead time of year, when the work was slack, by either putting down ballast or digging up the old ballast, or manufacturing it in some way, it might be kept up at a very small cost. The thing to be avoided is having the rails too light; the rails for the permanent line ought to be rather heavy, I should think not less than 20 pounds to 25 pounds to the yard. 5065. Do you find the line washed away ; are the rails much damaged ?—To a considerable extent; that is so because the railway was not properly constructed in the first instance; if the rails had been properly ballasted, and there had been a drain on each side, it would have protected the rails, and the cane pieces also, by giving an outlet to the water. 5066. Have you double rails ?—They are laid upon transverse sleepers of wood. 5067. Have you any objection to state what is the course that it is intended to pursue with respect to this estate?—I have not the slightest conception; everything depends upon what the Government may do. 5068. Suppose they do nothing ?—Then we shall do nothing. Whether we shall go on or not will entirely depend upon our obtaining an assurance from the Government that it will help us. 5069. If you discontinued the cultivation would you take up the canes?—If my own judgment was consulted, I should say leave them where they are; let them rot rather than sell them at the present price. 5070. You consider that you would have to lose if you took the canes off the ground ?—We shall certainly lose. 5071. But the cultivation has proceeded to some extent?—The cultivation of this year is set against the next year. 5072. It would save you money to discontinue at once ?—Yes; we have just established our plant for 1849, therefore it is a favourable moment to stop the cultivation if we were assured that nothing would be done to improve our condition ; we could not stop at a better time. 5073. Have you sent out any orders to stop cultivation?—No; my brother has gone out to work out the crop w ith his new machinery, but then when he went away he hoped to see better days; he hoped to get more than 16/. a hogshead, and he hoped to work at a less expense than 25 l. He has not taken the trouble to enter very minutely into all these calculations, and therefore I do not attach much importance to what he says upon the subject, though his views on the West India management are extremely good. 5074. You do not think he is likely to realize bis expectations?—I have not the smallest doubt that he will not realize them ; this letter of Mr. Shaw will sufficiently prove it. 5075. You do not think that your brother will agree with Mr. Shaw?—I think it

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

it is very likely my brother might differ from him, but in justice to my brother I ought to state that he was not brought up as a planter ; he went out there as an amateur to work out his own estate. His views on West India management are extremely good, but not being a practical man, I think he will not succeed. It is very likely that if, in regard to the suggestions he made, he had a man like Mr. Shaw to carry them out, many of the evils that he has fallen into might have been avoided, and I think, even now, with a man of the experience of Mr. Shaw, he would in all probability do good. I am not in favour of planters going out to Jamaica ; I went out and did very little good, and I came back again. 5076. Mr. Villiers.] How long were you there?—Four months; but I was constantly on the estate night and day. 5077. You give no evidence as to the management?—No. 5078. You have not much confidence in the management of your brother?— I have great confidence in his ideas of West India management, but I have not much confidence in his practice ; because I do not consider that any man brought up as a gentleman in this country, as he has been, can go to Jamaica and learn planting in a fortnight. 5079. Your objection to a gentleman going out is not on the ground that he is a gentleman, but that gentlemen generally know nothing of the management of estates ?—Exactly ; gentlemen living in this country have not been educated in such a manner as to be competent to form an opinion whether the estate is making money or not; they go with English ideas; they never saw a cane before or a negro before, and they had much better leave it to those agents who understand it, and have been connected with it all their lives. I have heard of a good many that have gone out and burnt their fingers. 5080. it would be a good thing for the estates if the proprietors knew more about the management of the estates ?—Most unquestionably. I think it is a good thing for a prudent proprietor, who has been a farmer in this country, to go out and reside on his estate, if for a short time after he gets there he lives at home, and has everything carried out through his overseer. In the first place lie brings his own experience in England to bear upon it, and good results might follow. But what I object to is, raw gentlemen going out there and endeavouring to grow sugar immediately they get there. 5081. Can planters always depend upon the agents they employ there in their cultivation?—I think they can. There was a time when agents were not very much celebrated lor their high character, but at present many attornies in the island are most estimable men, and men entirely to be relied upon. 5082. The proprietors are the persons who generally communicate with the Government with reference to the state of the West India Islands ?—I think that is generally managed by the body of planters, proprietors, and merchants, who form the West India Committee in London ; and in my opinion, you cannot have a more able body than that. 5083. You are fortunate in the agent that you have ?—Certainly. As far as regards Mr. Gilbert Shaw, what he states you may rely upon as gospel. 5084. In that letter which you read, he represents the estate to be in a very disastrous condition ?—On the contrary, he says the estate is really in good order, as far as the field is concerned ; but he says, " What the general result will be at the end of the crop, I cannot foretell; everything will depend upon the prices of produce." 5085. It is of the future prospect that he is speaking ? — Yes ; he refrains from giving an opinion upon the general affairs of the estate, because at that time, he says, that there is a panic in the island, and he cannot venture to form an opinion upon the result. 5086. His complaints do not refer to late years, but rather to what will happen in consequence of the recent change in the law ?—I take that to be his meaning. At the same time, I must remark, that he does make some observations upon the subject of the moral condition of the people. He seems to think, that of late years, in spite of very large sums of money having been voted by the House of Assembly for purposes of education, and so on, the people have been retrograding for some time. 5087. Did you refer to any experience of your own when you gave us an account of the negro population ; for instance, that they work one month and lay idle lor another month ?—Yes; the experience I had when I was in the island. 5088. During the four months you heard of instances of that kind'—Yes ; that 0.32. K was

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

was the case when I was there. I saw a man at work one week, and then I never saw him at work again for a month. I knew all the negroes, and all their names. 5089. Upon inquiring after the negroes, you found that it was their habit to work tor a week, and then disappear for a month ?—Yes; and they go elsewhere. 5090. That is ruinous to the planter?—Yes. 5091. How is it then that the estate has thriven so well ?—It is a splendid property ; it is an estate that you can always calculate upon getting a certain return from: for instance, an acre of land will generally give you three hogsheads of sugar. It is as good an estate as it is possible to conceive; sometimes it has exceeded three hogsheads ; and with very good machinery I believe it is possible to get as much as four hogsheads. 5092. You are referring to the circumstances of the soil ?—Yes. 5093. You are manufacturers as well as growers ?—Yes. 5094. It is in the manufacture of sugar that you suffer from the habit of the labourers not to work continuously, but leaving the estate altogether ?—I do not think we suffer in the manufactory so much from that; but it is the want of continuous labour in the field that we suffer from. 5095. Is not that also felt in the manufactory ?—Not in my experience ; the men who work in the manufactory have not gone away so much in the crop time, but they take their holidays at other times. They get high wages, and in consideration of those high wages they will stick to their work very well, but they will not work at night. 5096. Then you do not suffer from want of continuous labour in the manufactory ?—No; not in the manufactory; but in the field we do. 5097. But the estate has thriven, and been prosperous?—No ; far from it. 5098. As far as I understand you, from the want of continuous labour, it is almost impossible to compete with slave labour?—It is not so much from the want of continuous labour as from the want of continuous labour at proper prices. 5099. It is in consequence of the labour being free, and you not being able to restrain the labourer ?—It is in consequence of our not having sufficient labour to perform the work at a reasonable price. 5100. You stated to the Committee that it was in consequence of labour being free, that you could not compete, in the way you used to do, with countries in which slave labour exists ?—I do not think I stated that; I stated with respect to the machinery we had had to erect, that if we had been able, at that time, to command that labour which we did in old times, we should, probably, have erected that machinery in half the time in which we did erect, it, when we could not depend upon the labour. 5101. Then the Committee would be under a mistake if they apprehended your meaning to be that you could not compete, because your labourers were free, whereas, the produce that comes from other countries is the produce of slave labour ?—It matters very little to the sugar planter, as regards the profit upon his cultivation, whether the labourer is free or whether he is a slave ; the question is, what price you have to pay for labour. 5102. Is it in consequence of that difference in the character of the labour, that the sugar cultivation will not remunerate you, as compared with colonies where the labour is forced ?—Yes. 5103. Is that the disadvantage you have to contend with?—The great disadvantage is, that we have not a sufficient supply of labour; whether that arises from the people being free or not, I have nothing to do with that; but the fact is, that we are not supplied with labour at a remunerative rate, and, therefore, we cannot compete with the slave owner. 5104. If you had more free labour, would you not still be subject to the men working for a week and going away for a month?—No, because the labourers we should import would be bound, under contract, to work ; otherwise, if they work for a short time and get a few dollars in their pocket, they will buy land, and if they do not like to work they will not work ; but if they were bound, under contract, and they broke their contract, we could bring them before the magistrate and punish them. 5105. Would you contemplate superseding the present labour in Jamaica altogether by imported labour?—Where there is a deficiency of labour you might put a'certain arbitrary supply of labour at the disposal of the planter, but by the time the contracts had expired, I think the imported negroes would appreciate the state

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

state of society in Jamaica so much as to prevent their returning-, and instead of going hack to Africa they would stay in Jamaica. 5106. You think they would not do what the emancipated negroes in the island now do, that is, leave work and squat?—No, I think not; not having been slaves before, I think they would be more industrious. 5107. I understood you to say that the schools are deserted, that the people are immoral, and that freedom is not answering in the way it was expected; that people find they can live without working, and therefore they do not work ? —So I am informed upon good authority. 5108. Have you any other knowledge upon that subject but that which you derive from the letter you have read ?—I have seen various accounts in the papers I have read, but nothing that I can depend upon. 5109. Have you seen the reports of some of the governors ; amongst others, Lord Elgin ?—I have read the reports of Lord Elgin. 5110. Do his reports tally with Mr. Shaw's letter?—It has always struck me that the Governor's report of Jamaica, as respects the social and financial condition of the island, and the general commercial prosperity, was at variance with the private information that I had received in letters; the accounts which the governors are in the habit of sending home to the Government here, do not express the same opinions as I have heard expressed by practical men in different parts of the island. 5111. But you have not heard the accuracy of those reports questioned in public ?—I do not think anybody has ever had the courage to question it in public. 5112. Did you ever see Governor Light's report upon the state of the negroes in Guiana?—No, I never did. Lord Elgin, I believe, took a good deal of pains to ascertain the real state of affairs in Jamaica; but when governors go out they are expected to correspond with the Home Government before they have obtained any great experience, and they have to speak upon important matters with which they have not become personally acquainted. They have a staff of officials around them, and they are compelled to trust to their information ; and it is quite clear that they cannot get the information in a fortnight, and they enter upon their duties without that knowledge. I do not mean to say that any incompetency to judge of the state of affairs in Jamaica characterized Lord Elgin or the despatches of any other governors; but in many cases they would be likely, from the officials that they had around them, to imbibe opinions which would be at variance with the opinions of the proprietors as a body. 5113. You believe that there are classes of labourers that might be brought into the island who would be superior to the recently emancipated negroes, and also to those parties who have been brought in hitherto from other countries ?— I do not mean to say that they could bring in a better set of men into Jamaica than a great number of the old labourers, who stick by the estates and do thenduty faithfully; you may place every reliance upon them ; they do not leave you, and they will work steadily as long as you want them; but those are few and far between. 5114. But immigration has not answered hitherto ?—As far as I have been able to ascertain, the immigration, with the exception of that which took place to the east end of the island, has not answered. 5115. That is from the persons who have been introduced having been inefficient?—Yes, from their having introduced a bad class of men. 5116. Is it the case that there are in the island a good many of those who have been imported without employment?—Yes. There is a great number of Coolies, who were starving, or said to be starving, or very sick, in different parts of Jamaica; but they were men that were totally incompetent to perform the work. 5117. Was that the reason they were unemployed ?—I believe it was. I am speaking now from what I have heard. I believe that the Coolies have not succeeded . 5118. Have you heard that many of them were not employed from want of capital to employ them ?—I have not heard of that, but I think it very likely that that was the case. 5119. You have told us that the great want in the island is money? Yes. 5120. Advances are made of money from this country ?—No, not now, because you get, no interest, upon it; if you had a good supply of labour, and a good market for the sugar, I believe that capital would flow again into the island ; but k 2 0.32. then

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then there must be something positive guaranteed, upon the faith of the country, before you can obtain anything of that kind. 5121. If there were labour introduced freely, you have no reason to doubt that capital also would be introduced ?—I think it would by new capitalists. I doubt whether old capitalists would venture to embark their capital in a concern in which they feel, whether rightly or not, that they have not been quite fairly treated. 5122. Does the Committee understand you to say that any other class of merchants would advance money where the old merchants were not willing to advance it, because the securities were not sufficient?—I have every reason to think that you would find speculators and men of capital come forward with capital if there was a good market for the sugar and a good supply of labour. 5123. If there were a good market for the sugar and a good supply of labour, the old merchants would make advances ?—Perhaps so ; nothing but the experience of the past would prevent their doing it. 5124. What would be the consequence of those estates being thrown up ; you said that nearly two-thirds of the proprietors would abandon their estates; would there be new purchasers who would possess themselves of those estates, purchasing them with the incumbrances ?—I should think not, unless some measure passes in order to protect sugar grown in our colonies. 5125. You believe that two-thirds of the island would be abandoned, and no person would appear to occupy it ?—I think the negroes would squat upon it. 5126. Why would not the other third be abandoned also ?—The greater part of the other third, I think would be abandoned ; but I think if Worthy Park were unfettered by other circumstances, we might be able to go on fighting against the slave grower, relying entirely upon the goodness of the soil, for the soil of Worthy Park is superior to anything they have anywhere else. 5127. Would those other circumstances refer to the mortgage and the other charges ?—Yes ; but it is all a question of the cost of labour. I mean to say this, that if with regard to Worthy Park estate, the effect of abandoning the other two estates is to make labour as cheap in that valley as it is in Brazil and Cuba, then we shall go on, but if that is not the result then we shall not go on. 5128. As I understood you, the negroes would prefer squatting upon the estate to working ?—I think, as a general rule, they would ; as a general rule, I think the negro is not satisfied with his condition unless he has a horse, a blue tail-coat, and a certain amount of land; he will do anything in order to obtain these ; those are the things that he must have, and if he can get those by working for a short time, he will then go away and make a holiday. 5129. The negro is very desirous to obtain a horse and land ?—There is no man more anxious for it. 5130. Is that consistent with their returning to savage life?—It is quite consistent ; they like the otium cum dignitate; they occupy their residences, and come down twice a week and work for a couple of days, and then return with a bottle of Bass's ale. 5131. A couple of days will not supply them with a horse and blue tail-coat? —But they raise a large amount of provisions, which they dispose of to great advantage. 5132. Then they work for themselves and for the planter, and they provide the market?—That is done to a considerable extent. 5133. If those estates were to be abandoned, they would occupy the land or some portions of it, and get their living by cultivating it?—I think it is likely that they would; at least the most ambitious or the most industrious of them. 5134. Are there many heavy mortgages upon the estates in Jamaica?—I suppose there is no property that is so highly mortgaged as West India property. 5135. If the estates were abandoned, the persons having a lien upon them would lose their security?—Undoubtedly, unless they had some other security here. 5136. Might not those estates be appropriated by persons who would be free from those incumbrances, and would not that make a great difference ?—Certainly they would get the estates for nothing, and in all probability all those estates, or the greater part, will fall into the hands of others for nothing. 5137. Is it not possible, though I do not mean for a moment to say that it is desirable, that the present proprietors might be ruined, and yet the island be a flourishing colony ?—Not unless you supply it with fresh labour.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 69 5138. If all the mortgages were wiped out they could not produce sugar cheap enough to come into this market ?—If you took an ordinary estate making 200 hogsheads, with complete works, and you gave that as a present, and capital to work it, to any man who was capable and intelligent, and understood the matter, I think he would, in two years, be sick and tired of it, and give it up ; for it is impossible that he could compete at the present prices with slave-grown sugar. 5139. That is in consequence of the low price of sugar?—Yes; that is my opinion; and I think that I am borne out in what I say, inasmuch as I am speaking of an estate making 200 hogsheads. Now my calculation of 25 I. a hogshead, as the cost of raising, was made in reference to an estate producing 600 hogsheads, and therefore the probability is that the cost would be 30 I. per hogshead upon an estate producing only 200 hogsheads; and there would be a loss therefore upon that estate. 5140. Those are the conclusions you have arrived at, being acquainted with all the details of the management of a sugar estate ?—I am acquainted with all the details, from.having been four months in the island, upon a sugar estate, and having been in a merchant's house since that time. 5141. You say that all those estates would be abandoned, and that everything depends upon what the Government intend to do. Will you state what the Government could do, supposing those estates remained mortgaged, that could save them ?—Nothing but a protective duty, till you have brought wages to such a level as to enable us to compete with slave-grown sugar. If the Government intend to save the West India proprietors, which I presume is their intention, for they cannot intend to sacrifice us; if they intend to rescue the present proprietors from ruin, they must, in the first place, supply us with free labour at a proper price; they must give it us at that price that will enable us to compete with slave labour. 5142. How can they supply fresh labour ?—Government should bring more labour from the coast of Africa. 5143. That you consider would reduce the price of labour in Jamaica ?—Yes ; but in the meantime we are losing money, and therefore it is necessary to deal with that; it is necessary that we should have some guarantee that the money we have invested, on the faith of certain results in this country, will meet with a due return. 5144. Then you come to a protective duty ?—Yes; but I do not ask for a duty that is to continue, but merely for a duty for a short time, in order to relieve us during a period of great anxiety. 5143. Have you fixed the amount of that duty?—Only in a general way; I think it should be a protective duty of 10 s. a cwt., as far as I am concerned. 5146. That is, as far as your estate is concerned ?—Yes ; and as far as a good many other estates that I am connected with are concerned. 3147. Yours is an estate in the most favourable circumstances as compared with others; it is one of the best?—Yes. 3148. Ten shillings a cwt. would do for you, together with a free importation of negroes from the coast of Africa?—Yes. 5149. An annual regular importation ?—I think an annual regular importation would be the best; it would perhaps relieve the island in some measure from any risk of starvation, because those men would require a certain amount of provisions, if you were to import labour to a very large amount immediately ; for instance, if you were to send a large number of ships which should all arrive in Jamaica in a fortnight or three weeks, or a month, there would be a difficulty, but the island is capable of taking a great number of labourers, and if notice was given of the intention of the Government to send them, preparations would be made. 5150. Have you any parochial system in Jamaica for the support of the poor? —I think there is something of the kind, but it is only in towns that the poor law is ever brought into practice. 5151 Is there any charge for aged and infirm poor?—I never had to pay any. 5152. It is not a charge that you discover in supporting the estate?—No, never; it is possible that there may be such a charge in towns. K3 0.32. 3133. Will

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5153. Will you state what amount of protective duty would be sufficient for estates less favourably situated than yours?—I think 10s. a cwt. ought to suit other estates too. I have put down 10 s. for ours, because we have certain difficulties to contend with, and till we got out of those difficulties we could not do with less. 5154. Do you mean to say that 10 s. a cwt. would keep all the other estates in cultivation?—As far as I can make a calculation upon the subject it would. 5155. I presume that there is nearly as much difference between your estates and other estates in Jamaica as there is between an estate in Cuba and your estate ?—I can hardly make a comparison of that kind. 5156. There is a great difference in the soil ?—Yes. 5157. And in the circumstances?—Yes; but we have many circumstances which are unfavourable; one is, that the property is at a great distance from the wharf; there is no estate in the island that has to carry so far as Worthy Park has. 5158. Have you any railway communication?—We have 14 miles of railway now, but then the expense is very heavy. 5159. You have one railway in the island ?—There is a railway about 20 miles only. 5160. That was made by black labourers?—In a great measure ; there were a great number of English taken out. 5161. Do I understand you to say that 2d. a day would be about the rate of wages which would enable your estate to be kept in cultivation ?—I did not mean to give that as a positive opinion; I said that if we were able to get our wages down to the East India rate we could compete with slave labour. 5162. Are you aware what the wages in the East Indies are?—I heard once that instead of reckoning by shillings they reckoned by pence, and that is what 1 meant to say; if we could get our labour at 3d. and 4 d. a day, at the present price of sugar we might get on. 5163. You have heard that they get labour in the East Indies as cheap as they get it anywhere ?—I have heard that labour was as cheap in the East Indies as 2 d. a day. 5164. Mr. M. Gibson.] You complain that there is not continuous labour in Jamaica; do the planters afford continuous employment to the labourers?—I think that the negroes having set the example in the matter of not having given continuous labour, it is very possible the planters may not have given them continuous work, but all the estates which are actually at work, I have reason to believe, would give as much continuous employment as they possibly could. 5165. What you want is this, that at any moment when it suits your convenience you may be able to put your hand upon the labourer ?—Undoubtedly ; you could not have better expressed my meaning. 5166. Can you expect to do that, unless you give continuous employment., and at continuous wages ?—Certainly not; there are duties both on the one side and the other. 5167. May not the difficulty of obtaining continuous labour be removed by a different system on the part of the planter, as well as on the part of the labourer? —Certainly not. If you will give us labourers we will take care that the obligations on the part of the planters shall be carried out. 5168. Have the planters afforded continuous employment to those labourers who have presented themselves ?—I am not aware of any instance where the contrary has been the case, except where an estate has been thrown up; and even that has been no loss to the labourers, because there have been many other planters who would only have been too happy to have employed them. 5169. Do you mean to say that the labourers you require at one period of the year, are employed during the rest of the year?—Most unquestionably, on all well-managed estates; and, in fact, on all estates there is a certain amount of labour which ought to be performed all the year round ; but there are periods when you require more labour than at other times. If we have good management it ought not to be the case that the labourers are thrown out of employment. If a planter mixes up a period of cultivation with a period of crop, he commits a serious error ; but if he separates the operations, there is no reason why the original staff should not do for all the various operations, and be in constant employment. 5170. I have

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

5170. I have heard it stated that the wages have not been punctually and regularly paid by the employers of labour; that the wages have fallen into arrear, and that that has driven the labourer, in his own defence, to cultivate provision ground ; have you any information upon that point ?—As far as the negroes upon the estate in which I am concerned go, they have been paid every week. There has been a great outcry made about wages not being regularly paid, but I believe that there has been very little truth in it, except that, at a certain period of pressure, the attornies of Jamaica were not supplied with funds from this country immediately after emancipation ; there may have been a panic there, and consequently the capitalists would not send the money; there was a period of that kind, during which the attornies had to put their hands into their pockets and to furnish money for the proprietors; the attorney, rather than run the risk of losing his salary altogether, by the proprietor abandoning his estate in disgust, put his hands into his pocket, and advanced the money for paying the wages; and I think it extremely likely, that in certain cases, the labourers were not paid their wages punctually, because every cable must come to an end; an attorney cannot go on long paying wages from his own pocket. 5171. You say that there is some outcry about wages not being paid regularly ? —I am not aware of there being now any outcry; the principal outcry was in 1841, when I was in the island. Since 1841 the outcry has diminished. 5173. Where you were there there was an outcry?—Yes. 5173. That may still remain?—There may be individual cases where it does remain. 5174. Can it be expected that the labourers will afford continuous labour if the wages are not paid punctually ?—Undoubtedly it cannot. 5175. Is not that a means by which the planters may improve the character of the labour ?—I think it likely that the system in Jamaica is not as perfect as it might be. 5176. Can anything be more calculated to improve the character of the labour and make it more continuous than paying the labourers punctually ?—I think it is calculated to have the best effects. 5177. When you were in Jamaica there had been a considerable outcry about the wages not being paid regularly?—There was an outcry about it, not a considerable outcry; but in a condition of society such as existed in 1841, if there had been found one proprietor who had not paid his people punctually on Saturday night, I think the whole island would have blazoned it. 5178. Have you ever heard, with reference to the cost of production, that some time ago a prize was offered in Jamaica to persons who should produce sugar, taking all things into consideration, at the least cost ?—I did hear something of that kind. 5179. Have you it now in your power to say at what cost the sugar was produced that gained the prize ?—I have not; I have no information on the subject; I only know the bare fact that some enterprising individuals did offer a prize. 5180. You never heard that the individual who obtained the prize produced his sugar at 9 s. a cwt. ?—No ; and if I had I should not have believed it. 5181. What has been the general estimate of the value of West India property ; for instance, in England we give so many years' purchase as the value of an estate ?—-That was the mode in Jamaica. 5182. How many years' purchase of the net income was it considered a Jamaica estate was worth ?—At one time it was as high as 30 years. 5183. Thirty years'purchase of the net income ?—Yes; within the last four years an estate was sold in Barbadoes at 20 years' purchase; there was a period when our colonial property was worth as much in purchase as the land of the mother country. 5184. As the rule, was it worth as much?—As the rule, undoubtedly not. 5185. But taking the ordinary way in which property has been valued in former times, how many years' purchase of the net income was it considered that West India property was worth?—Since emancipation I have heard West India property, in Jamaica, put at 14 years' purchase; in Barbadoes an estate was sold, within the last four years, at 20 years' purchase. 5186. How many years' purchase would an estate in Jamaica have been worth previous to emancipation ?—I am not aware what was the value then, but 1 should think from live to seven years' purchase under the value of land in this country. 0.32. K 4 51 87. I have

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5187. I have understood that, as a general rule, estates were not considered to be worth more than 10 years' purchase of the net income ?—There may be cases in which that would have been so; there may be some particular circumstances connected with the property; an estate may be composed of soil which would run out, but I am speaking of my own property. I think since emancipation the value of the property, if it was sold, ought to have been 14 years' purchase. 5188. How much of the compensation money did Jamaica receive ?—I do not know. 5189. The West India colonies altogether received 17 millions?—Yes. 5190. That amounts, I think, to something like a yearly charge upon the taxation of this country of 600,000 I. or 700,000 I.; England is paying now for the emancipation of slaves 700,000 I. per annum?—I dare say it may amount to something about that. 5191. How was that money applied in any particular instances within your knowledge?—I have no particular information upon that subject; it happened when I was very young, and I have no information before me to enable me to give an answer; all that I know is, that I have never met with a West India proprietor who was content with the compensation that was given to him. 5192. You state that you consider that the Legislature of this country ought to take steps to increase the price of sugar ?—I do not mean to say that, by any means. My meaning is, not that the Government should increase the price of sugar to the consumer, but that the Government should enable the sugar-grower in our colonies to put more money into his pocket out of it than he does now. I have no objection to the price of sugar remaining precisely the same as it is now. Take 40 s. as the standard. I have no objection to its remaining 40 s.; but what I contend for is a protecting duty for ourselves. 5193. If you take nothing from the consumer, where is this sum to come from that is to be given to the planter ?—The duties you have now admit of an arrangement of that kind being made. 5194. But the money cannot be obtained without the consumer paying for it? —No, I do not mean to say that it can, unless you can do with less revenue. It will be at a sacrifice to the revenue ; but I think it would be prejudicial to the interests of the sugar-growers to have sugar much higher in the retail market than it is at present. I think keeping sugar at 40 s. is the best thing you could possibly have for the sugar-grower; for the consumption of sugar is vastly increased by having sugar cheap ; but I should like to see such a protection upon sugar as would put 10 s. into our pockets. The Government must look to its own revenue; that I have nothing to do with. 5195. But would not you prefer a direct payment in money; would not that be a more direct mode of managing the affair'than doing it in that roundabout manner?—-I have no objection to a direct payment in money whatever. 5196. What is it that you propose ; you say that you do not want sugar t,o be any dearer than it is ?—Put it either way; either give us additional compensation, and plenty of it, or let us have an additional protecting duty ; give it either in the shape of interest or principal. Promise it to us for a limited number of years as interest, or give us the principal which that money ought to represent, and then we will be content. 5197. What do you offer to the British public in exchange for this boon ?—• I do not think I am inclined to offer them anything. My argument is, that the British public has something to pay me. The British public has deprived me of my means of subsistence from West India property, or the British Government did it for them. I deny that there is any debt whatever from the West Indians to the people of this country. On the other hand, I contend that there is a very heavy debt which the people of this country owe to the West Indies. 5198. A considerable payment was made, for which there is now a charge of 700,0001, per annum paid out of the taxation of the country ; but you say you have not the slightest knowledge what became of that money ?—What money has been received for the negroes I suppose has been invested in the production of sugar, because the sugar has fallen to that extent, but we cannot get a remunerating profit for it. 5199. From the returns before the Committee it appears that the estates in Jamaica received 6,149,937 l. Do you know how many estates there arc in Jamaica ?—I do not know, 5200. Do

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 73 5200. Do you know what the net income of the whole of the estates in Jamaica was at the time that that six millions of money was paid ?—I have no notion. 5201. Have you ever heard that the money paid as compensation for the slaves, was equal in amount to ten years' purchase of the net income of the property, at the Jamaica market value of the property ?—Never; I should have been extremely glad to have seen the money represented by four years' purchase of the net income at that time ; but the Committee may rely upon it, that it never was covered by six millions. 5202. Can you give the Committee any idea what is the net income derived from the estates in Jamaica?—For instance as respects Worthy Park ; Worthy Park, at ten years' purchase of the net income at the time of the emancipation ought to have been worth 150,000 I. Now what did we receive for our compensation ? I do not think we received quite 7,000 I. The Committee can have the figures if they think it is worth while to apply for them. 5203. You have said that at the present time there is a panic in Jamaica. Do not you think that panics are generally temporary matters, and are succeeded gradually by a restoration of confidence ?—That has been the case with almost every panic that has taken place in this country, but a panic of this kind in Jamaica I do not think is likely to be checked, unless something takes place on the part of the Government. 5204. Have you never had a panic before in Jamaica?—Never such a panic as this. 5205. But in 1830 it was stated, before a Committee of this House, that at that time there was a failure and abandonment of estates, and that for many years previous to 1830 things had been getting worse and worse, and that unless something was then done there would be total ruin ?—And total ruin has come. 5206. But it has been some time coming, since 1830; but Mr. Shaw is not quite so desponding as you are ?—Mr. Shaw seems to think that I am less desponding than he is. Mr. Shaw's words were, " I think it very likely that you, who live in the great centre from which all these causes proceed, may see some room for hope, but I confess that I see very little." He rather seemed to thinkthat I might be more hopeful here than he was justified in being from the condition of the island. 5207. There has been a panic in this country, and there has been a depreciation in the value of property of various kinds, has there not ?—I am not aware what property you can put into comparison with property in the West Indies, so far as regards landed property, because landed property is the thing with which we are dealing. 5208. We will take railway property ?—I do not think railway property ought to be put into comparison. 5209. J he question is, whether you are justified, upon the panic which now exists, in saying that all these fearful consequences are to follow, or whether you are not rather bound to believe that a panic is a temporary matter, and that confidence will gradually be restored ?—I am undoubtedly bound to believe that under a liberal government, which is willing to help its fallen friends, there is a ray of hope for us; but if they set their feet upon the ground and say, " No, we will not consent to any alteration, and you shall sell your sugar at 16 I. a ton," I own that I see no hope. 5210. You were understood to say that you are satisfied with the present price? —By no means. I am satisfied with the present price to the consumer ; but what I want is a reduction of our duty. I want the standard of sugar to be at 40,s. rather than at 60 s. 5211. Do you mean that the reduction should take place upon foreign sugar as well as upon yours?- Most unquestionably not. I want to leave foreign sugar precisely where it is, and to bring down our sugar, so as to leave a margin. 5212. Would not you always be able to obtain as much as the foreign sugar got, plus its high duty ?—I think we could. 5213. What security do you offer that if the duty on colonial sugar be lowered leaving the duty on foreign sugar as it is, as low a price as is now given for sugar will be maintained?—T lie security is that the price of the great, bulk of foreign sugar would govern our price here. 5214. But if the price of foreign sugar governs the market, will not, the retail price of sugar be the price of the foreign sugar plus the high dutv ? No. 0.32. L 5215. You

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5215. You say that the price of foreign sugar governs the market, and you say that you would leave the high duty on foreign sugar. Then the price of sugar in the market would be the price of the foreign sugar plus the high duty ?—Plus the high duty, plus the differential duty. 5216. Then you would obtain that?—We should obtain that. 5217. You would have bad your duty lowered ?—We should have had our duty lowered, and we should put the other 10 s. into our pockets. 5218. Then how is the consumer to be benefited by this arrangement ?—I am not talking of benefiting the consumer; that is not my object. I contend that the consumer ought to benefit me. We have benefited the consumer already by bringing down sugar from 7 d. a pound to 4 d. a pound, and we ask the Government to make up that sum by the difference in the duty. It is a bonus to the West Indies which we ask. 5219. Can you give the Committee any idea of the amount of the bonus that you ask?—I have put the permanent differential duty for this year at 10s. In saying 10 s., I am dealing most liberally with the question. It costs us 10 s. more per cwt. to raise our sugar than it does slave sugar. 5220. Do you mean that the consumer should pay you 10 s. more than he can buy the sugar for from other countries?—1 do not mean that the consumer should pay it to us, but that the country should give it to us in the duty. 5221. It would be a charge of 10 s. a cwt. upon all the sugar imported into this country?—It would be so practically. 5222. What is the amount of West India sugar; how many tons do you send into this country ?—Jamaica will send about 32,000 tons this year. 5223. Then, as far as Jamaica is concerned, it would be a grant of 300,000 I. a year?—Yes. 5224. Supposing the colonies altogether send 250,000 tons of sugar, it would amount to 2,500,000 l. ?— Just so. 5225. To be added to that, there is the 700,000 I. a year which is being paid in interest upon the money raised for paying the compensation, making a sum total of 3,200,000l. a year ?—Just so; but then you have to take off the difference between the price which the consumer now pays for his sugar and the price he had to pay. You have to take off 3d. a pound; to calculate 3 d. a pound upon every pound of sugar consumed in this country, and then you see what advantage the consumer has got; and if you set that against the amount of money which you have now made, in the balance you will find that the consumer is still a gainer by the change. I mean, that reverting to the old duties, and taking the price at 7 d. a pound, I contend that the country has received a bonus to the extent of 3 d. to 4 d. a pound upon sugar alone. That has had the effect of ruining us, and we ask for that back again, or some of it. We do not ask for it all back again, because that would include the exclusion of foreign sugar, and then the supply of sugar must be regulated by the supply derived from our own colonies, which I do not think is just. I am not opposed to free trade, but I am opposed to free trade carried to the extent of ruining the colonies. 5226. You said that if the present measure is allowed to remain, the end of it will be, that sugar will, first of all be cheap, and that after a little while it will get dear again, and that you will be all ruined; and then the supply of sugar will be in the hands of the foreigner, and he wi 11 raise the price upon us?—That was Mr. Shaw's opinion, not mine. I think it is extremely likely to happen, but 1 do not express that as a confident opinion. Mr. Shaw appears to have watched the course of events very closely, and to be a very calm judging man ; I do not know any man upon whose opinion I should rely more. 5227. Do you think that if you had this protection you should increase the quantity of sugar which you now grow ?—I have very little doubt that we should amazingly. 5228. Do you think you should ever increase it to that point that you would fully supply the wants of the English market?—I believe that if the West Indies were supplied with labour at as cheap a rate as could be procured in slave countries, we could supply this market and a great many other markets too. 5229. If you supplied a great many other markets you would sell it at the price of foreign sugar?—That depends upon circumstances. We might be able to sell it at. the price of foreign sugar. If yon give us labour at as cheap a rate as they get it in slave countries, we can afford to sell our sugar at the same price. 5230. Mr.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

5230. Mr. Moffatt.] Is there any export duty on the produce of Jamaica?— I am not aware that there is any. I do not think there is any. 5231. Have you, as a planter, any ground for complaining of local taxation in the island ?—Yes ; I think the taxes are very high. 5232. But you have not stated that in your evidence, as any great cause of grievance?—No; I have not adduced any particular cause of grievance in that respect. I have been principally occupied in the details of the cultivation. ,5233. You have no great cause of complaint of the interference of the Colonial Office in any way ?—I have paid very little attention to what the ColonialOffice has been doing of late, with the exception that I heard something about the Colonial Office having abandoned the plan for importing Africans into Jamaica, and I am sorry to hear that they have done so. I do complain of this; that when the principle was recognized that free labour ought to be imported into Jamaica, the Government did not put on a sufficient number of vessels to carry it out efficiently. 5234. "What is the character of the contracts with the labourers; are they daily, or weekly, or monthly ?—Either by the piece or by the day; we have no monthly or weekly contracts whatever; sometimes we take a large piece of canes, and contract with a certain number of men to do the work. 5235. Do you generally pay by the day ?—Except when we pay by the piece. 5236. Which is the more general, paying by the piece or by the day ?—Paying by the piece; there are certain descriptions of work for which it docs not answer to pay by the piece, because the work is got over in a slovenly manner, more particularly cleaning the canes; but there are a variety of opinions upon that point, and I am no practical planter. 5237. How many hours do you call a day's labour when you pay a man by the day?—It depends very much upon the caprice and fancy of the negroes ; it is generally about six hours. 5238. A day is simply a day, without reference to the number of hours?—A day is simply a day. At one time if they worked one half hour they got a day's wages. 5239. That is improved ?—Yes. 5240. You have a greater command of labour now than you had ?—We have a greater command of labour than we had. 5241. Do you know anything of coffee planting ?—Nothing at all. 5242. Lord G. Manners.] Are you at all acquainted with the excise regulations of the island ?—Not at all. I know very little of any internal regulations of the island. I was a magistrate in the island when I was there in 1841, but 1 had very little to do. I attended the courts, but I had no cases involving any points of law ; they were merely trespasses, and cases of that kind. 5243. Chairman.] Mr. Milner Gibson asked you about the 6,100,000 /. of compensation to Jamaica; Jamaica received 10 l. odd compensation per head for the slaves, whilst the Government's own valuer, valued the slaves at 49/. ?—As far as I can recollect, that was the case. 5244. The sum total at which the slaves were valued was 15,501,047 /. for Jamaica, but they paid you only 6,100,000/. ?—That, I believe, was about the proportion. 5245. Mr. Milner Gibson seemed to think that the country had been ill used. 'I he country valued the slaves of the colonies at 45,000,000 /., and paid 20,000,000/.; was not that so?—That, I believe, was about the amount. 5246. If a debtor and creditor account was to be raised between the British colonies and this country, you would have a right to claim an additional payment of 25,000,000/. plus the interest upon that 25,000,000/. lor 14 years?— There is no question about it. 5247. And at the colonial interest of six per cent, that would amount to a sum of 21,000,000 l. more?—It would. I am not aware that the money has ever been booked as a debt, but it should have been so. 5248. In equity, the country, upon its own valuation, owes the colonies 46,000,000/.?—About that. 5249. Mr. Milner Gibson desires you to be asked whether, in making up the account, the country has not a right to claim as a set-off' against the 46,000,000/., the difference between the price which they have paid for sugar and the price at which they would have obtained sugar had they been at liberty to purchase their sugar where they pleased ?—By no means. According to my view of equity they are not entitled to any such thing. At the time when they emancipated our slaves 0 32. L 2 they

473 T. Price, Esq. 1 March 1848.

76 T. Price, Esq.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

they said nothing about the admission of foreign sugar to compete with us. I do not consider that they are entitled to take that into the calculation in any shape. 5250. That was understood as part of the bargain?—Most distinctly. There was a clear understanding on the part of this country that they would not admit foreign sugar. 5251. Are you aware whether any of the apprentices purchased their freedom in the interval between the emancipation Act and 1838?—I am not aware of such having been the case. If they did so I should think that their value had already been fixed by the Government. 5252. But if they did purchase their apprenticeship, the Government did not pay for them over again ?—No; I never heard of any such instance.

1 March 1848.

Lord Viscount Ingestre, a Member of The House; Examined. 5253. Chairman.] YOU are a Co-trustee of the Worthy Park estate?— I am. 5254. It has been stated in the House of Commons that the late manager had been recalled, and that the present manager, Mr Price, had been sent back again, as the best manager that could be sent out, in the opinion of the trustees ; is that the true state of the case ?—The reason that Mr. George Price was sent out was rather of a mixed character; he, as the Committee are aware, was sent out originally as a co-proprietor with Mr. Price's brother, who has just been examined. A good deal of expense was incurred, and a very large debt, which 1 will not enter upon here as to what were the causes of it; but the result was a very large debt upon the estate, which created considerable alarm to the trustees. Mr. Price was recalled, chiefly with the view of giving an explanation viva voce of what was going on; and I must say, for one, that I certainly had no wish or intention that Mr. George Price should resume his position in that estate ; but the situation of the estate was such that we were utterly ruined, and I, at this moment, have a claim of something like 30,000 l. against me for that estate, and bills were coming in, drawn upon the trust, which we were utterly unable to meet till we were assisted by Lord Dunsany, who is the father-in-law of Mr. George Price, and who was anxious that he should have the employment that that afforded him, and also thought that he had been misrepresented in this country; and, in short, that he ought to go out again. He offered to make an advance, upon the condition that Mr. George Price should go out. I believe that if it had not been for that condition, Mr. George Price would not have gone out again. His brother protested against his going out. I stated this one night myself, in the House of Commons. I was, unfortunately, not in the House at the moment of the debate, but when this Committee was named, I stated in substance what I have now stated, as the reason why Mr. George Price went out. Besides that, I should say that, having a feeling of relationship, all the trustees being his immediate relatives, we were anxious to give him an opportunity of retrieving the estate; and these combined reasons, more especially the absolute necessity of an immediate advance of money, which we could get only upon that sole condition, were the reasons that Mr. George Price was sent out to resume the control of the estate. I have nothing more to say with respect to that. 5255. It has been stated that Mr. Price was originally recalled by accident; was that the state of the case?—Certainly not. There were great difficulties attending the construction of a mill, for which he had applied to the trustees, and a steam-engine, and great expenses had been incurred ; and he was blaming the parties here who had sent out that mill and that steam-engine, and it was getting into.a very lengthened correspondence, and no satisfactory, result could be come to. I suggested to my co-trustees that Mr. George Price should be recalled, but in the mildest form that we could, which was, suggesting to him that lie should come home on leave of absence, and that the trust would pay his expenses home and back again, if they thought it necessary to send him out; and that he was at liberty to choose the most convenient moment both for himself and lor the estate. Mr. Price declined to act upon that; and we subsequently finding the necessity still very pressing upon us, sent out a power of attorney appointing Mr. Shaw, the late attorney, in his place, telling him that it was merely temporary, but also sending that power to Mr. Price to hand over to Mr. Shaw. Mr. Price still clung to remaining where he was; and upon the plea

Lord Viscount Ingestre,■ M.P.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

475

Lord plea of Mr. Shaw having so many estates to attend to, wished to give the trustees an opportunity of re-considering it, and sent the power of attorney back to the Viscount Ingestre, M.P. trust. I not being used to having one's orders so distinctly rebelled against, immediately sent out a most peremptory order, and sent out the power of attorney I March 1848. direct to Mr. Shaw. That was the history of Mr. Price's coming home. I have stated the history of his going out again. 5256. Lord Dunsany advanced 5,000 /.to meet the merchant's claim ?—It was a matter of arrangement. The great object was, the crop being upon the ground, to furnish means to take off the existing crop. 52,57. The only condition upon which Lord Dunsany would consent to make that advance was, that Mr. George Price should again be sent out ?—That was the sole condition upon which he would advance the money, that Mr. George Price should go out. And having said thus much of the reasons of Mr. Price's recall, I should state that I think he is a sanguine man; he has very good notions of getting a very good crop from the estate, and if he would have a little more ballast I have no doubt would do very well. But he has been a little visionary in his notions, and has got a good crop before he was certain of the means of carrying it off; and the consequence has been, that the crop has in one instance, if not in more, rotted upon the ground, a great proportion of it from want of the means of carrying it oft'.

Jovis, 2* die Martii, 1848.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Lord George Bent.inck, Sir Thomas Birch. Sir Edward Buxton. Mr. Cardwell. Mr. Milner Gibson.

Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr.

Goulburn. Hope. Labouchere. Matheson. Miles.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK, IN THE CHAIR.

William Scott, Esq., called in ; and Examined. 5258. Chairman.] YOU are a Sugar Broker ?—-I am. 5259. Cam you state to the Committee the operation upon the sugar market of William Scott, Esq. the various changes in the laws which have taken place within the last few years?—The first change in the law took place in the spring of 1844. In the 2 March 1848. year 1843 the consumption of sugar had been very good ; so much so that when the Trade and Navigation Statistical Returns came out, it appeared that the consumption of sugar had as nearly as possible tallied with the production. The consumption of the year 1843 had reached nearly 202,000 tons, and the production of sugar in the British West Indies, and the Mauritius, and in British India, only reached 204,000 tons. That, of course attracted attention, that something would be done to increase this importation by means of foreign freelabour sugar. In the spring of 1844 it was proposed by our Government to admit foreign free-labour sugar at a protecting duty of 10 s. per cwt., and the five per cent, that then existed upon the duty made it 10 s. 6 d. per cwt. Foreign freelabour sugar however, which was to be allowed the privilege of home use, was to be accompanied by certificates of origin ; and as none of the foreign sugar that was here could be accompanied by such certificates, a considerable time must elapse before any of it came upon the market. Consuls were established at various places, and a form of certificate was framed and sent out to accompany the cargoes that came home; the consequence was, that not much came in the year 1844, in fact scarcely any. There was a good market in 1845, and verv good prices ruled. 5260. Can you say what the price was?—In 1844 the prices ruled from L3 34 s.ed. 0.32.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

34 s. 6d. per cvvt. till the main consuming part of the year, when they wer 35 s. and 36 s. a March 1848. 5261. That is the short price?—Yes; the Gazette average price. 5262. Can you state what was the price of free foreign sugar, and Havannah sugar in bond, in the same year?—Yellow Havannah sugar of the same quality was about 19s. 6d. a cwt.; or rather I should say the quality of foreign muscovado, which comes nearer the quality of British plantation West India sugar, was from 18s. to 19 s. per cwt. 5263. In point of fact, in 1844 Sir Robert Peel's Bill was practically inoperative ?—Perfectly, because no sugar with the necessary certificates was on the spot to be available. 5264. It first came practically into operation in 1845 ?—It first came into operation in 1845, and as 1845 proceeded the expectation of a considerable supply lowered the price ; it fell from 31 s. to 29 s., and then down to 30s. and 29s.; but in 1845, when the new Bill was completed, the reduction of the duty on British plantation sugar caused a very considerable increase in the consumption, because though the net price remained the same, the price to the consumer by the reduction of the duty was very much lowered. The average of the short price of 1844 had been 34s., to which if we add the duty, which was 24s. and then the five per cent., it made 59 s. 6 d.; but when the reduction of duty in 1845 came into operation the short price was about 31 s., and the reduced duty being only 14s. gave a consumer's price of 45s., being a reduction of 12s. or 13s. per cwt. to the consumer, and only a reduction of about 2s. to the producer. As the year got on the price rose somewhat. 5205. W hat Had the price got to in December 1845 r?—It was as high as 35s. 6d. taking the average of the month. 5266. You had then learned that the hurricane in Cuba had taken place, which reduced the crops of Cuba pretty nearly one half, and ensured a high price on the continent?—Yes; it was the drought, as well as a hurricane, which did the mischief. 5267. The long price in December 1845 was 49s. 6d., you say?—Yes; in 1846 we were still limited to foreign free-labour sugar. 5268. What quantity of free-labour sugar came in 1845 ?—About 8,000 tons. 5269. The consumption went on in 1846?—Yes, the prices were very good. 5270. What were the prices which were very good?—The prices of 1846 till the month of August were from 36 s. to 34 s., being an average of about 35 s., giving along price of 49s.; at many periods of the year they were lower, but that was about the average. 3271. In the month of July you received information that slave grown-sugar was to be admitted?—Yes; the impression was, of course, felt. The present Government had declared the impossibility of drawing the distinction between slave-grown sugar and free-labour sugar; and as the previous Government had been succeeded by the present Government, it was naturally feared, anil created a speculative feeling that the admission of foreign sugar would not be confined to free-labour sugar. 5272. Can you state the prices in June 1846, and in July and August 1846 ? -—In June the prices were 35s. 8d., and in July there was very little difference, 34s. Id. 5273. In August what was the price?—In August the price did not fall much, because, though the Act had passed admitting slave-labour sugar, there was so little of the sugar in the country that could be admitted in conformity with the Navigation Laws ; it had been imported in foreign ships, so that it was not severely felt at all till the course of the year 1847 ; the average price in June was 35s. 8d. for British plantation sugar, in July 34s. id., in August 34 s. 10d. 5274. It father went up?—The Gazette average may vary a little, probably from the quantity of fine sugar sold during the month. From the 18th of August to the end of the month the price was 32s. Id. Directly the sugar was admissible it began to fall. In October the price was 32s. 6d., in November 34s. 3d., in December 32s. Id. 5275. Can you tell the Committee what Havannah sugars were ?—I will take foreign muscovado; I take that because it is a quality of sugar that corresponds more nearly with British plantation West India sugar than any other sugar there is; since the admission of slave-labour sugar into this country we have had Porto Rico sugar, which is pure muscovado sugar though a very fine one, and we have

William Scott, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

477

have had a great quantity of the produce of Cuba manufactured into the musco- William Scott, Esq. vado sugar: the price of foreign muscovado sugar was 20 5. in June, in July 21 5. 6 d.; in August 23s. 6d.; in September 25s.; in October 26s.; in Novem- 1 March 1848. ber 27 s., and in December 27 s. 5276. So that Havannah sugar had gone up 7/. a ton, while British plantation sugar had fallen since June 2/. a ton?—Yes. 5277. Can you give the Committee the average price of this foreign muscovado sugar in bond, for a few years prior to June 1845 or 1846?—The average price of foreign muscavado in bond in the year 1844 was 18s. Id. 5278. What was it in 1843 ?—In 1843 it was 18 s. 11d. 5279. In 1842?—In 1842, 17 s. 8d. 5280. In 1841 ?—20s. 2d. 5281. In 1840 ?—1840 I have not got. 5282. About 18s. 10 d. a cwt. may be taken as the average price of Havannah muscovado till the Bill of 1846 passed?—Yes. 5283. What have been the prices of yellow Havannah sugar from 1841 to 1846 ?—In 1841 the average of the year was 21 s. 7 c?.; in 1842 the average of the year was 18 s. ; in the year 1843 the average was 19 s. 8 d.; in 1844 the average of the year was 19 s. 5 c?.; in 1845, in consequence of the short crop alluded to just now, 23 s. was the average of the year ; it got up at one period as high as 26 s., but the average of the year was 23s. 5284. What has been the average price since?—To August 1846 it was 22 s. 5 c?.; in September the monthly average was 25 s.; in October 25 s.; in November 25 s.; in December 24 s.; in January 25s. 9 c?.; in January 29s. 6 d. There was a great stimulus given to the market of sugar generally by the admission in January of sugar to distilleries ; a speculative demand took place, people thinking a great quantity would be used for that purpose, and the prices became very high in the month of February. In March the price was 29 s. 9 d.; in April 28s. 9 d.; in May 26s.; in June 26s.; in July 24s. 6c?.; in August 24 s.; September 24 s.; October 22 s. 6 d.; November 23s. 6 d.; and December 20 s. 6 d.; making the average for the year about 25 s. We cannot compute the average value of foreign sugar so well as we can that of British plantation sugar ; one is computed from a regular Gazette return made weekly, communicated by the Grocers' Company, according to the returns made by the trade; the other is taken from our own prices current. 5285. What do you make the average fall in British sugar of the same description ?—The extreme fall from May 1846 to May 1847, was 6s. 8c?; in May 1846 the price was 36s. 7d.; in 1847, it was 29s. lie?. In May 1846, the average price of yellow Havannah sugar was 21s.; and in May 1847, though British had fallen nearly 7s., Havannah had advanced 5s., being 26s. Those are the extreme fluctuations; upon the average price of the year they had been less. 5286. Can you inform the Committee what was the average fall of British, and what the average advance of foreign?—The average fall from May 1846 to May 1847, on British plantation sugar, was about 2s. per cwt., and the rise on foreign was on the average about 4s.; the principal fall was in the month of May; in that month alone we fell 4s. 5287. What has been the entire average fall from June 1846 to the present time?—An average fall on British plantation, 6s.; an average advance on foreign of 3 s. 10 c?. 5288. In the course of the year 1845, the Russian government altered its laws as regards crushed lump, which gave some stimulus to the market, did not it ?— T he admission of crushed sugar into Russia took place, by accounts received, in April 1845, owing to the high prices required for sugar in Cuba. The price of foreign crushed sugar previous to that was 31 s. It advanced very rapidly to 35s. in consequence of that admission, and continued to advance till it reached 43s. In consequence of the excess of shipments, it went back again in 1846 to nearly the previous prices. 5289. Did the deliveries throughout the year 1847 increase as the prices declined?—No; I do not think they did; the deliveries of the first six months of 1847 were better than the deliveries of the last six months of 1847. 5290. What were the prices of each month in the first six months, and each month of the last six months; and what were the deliveries?—The prices in January 1847, were 3bs. 6d.; February, 36s. (id.; March, 34s. 5 d.; April, 0.32. L4 33 s. 9 d.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Esq. 33 s. 9 d.; May, 29 5. 11 d.; June, 29 s. 4 d. In the first six months of the year the consumption was larger than it was in the latter six months, though the price a March 1848. was considerably higher. T he position of the country was better in the first six months of the year than it was in the latter six months. 5291. Can you give the Committee any information as respects the classification of sugar, especially in respect of Havannah sugar, paying the same duties, as compared with British plantation sugar?—The classification is regulated by a standard; all that does not reach fully that standard comes in at the duty of brown foreign muscovado sugar, which is now 20s., the nominal protection is consequently 6 s.; but inasmuch as that standard, or rather any description of sugar that just cuts a little below the standard, contains a much greater quantity of saccharine matter for refining purposes than the average of British plantation sugar, the real protection is considerably less. 5292. What do you make out to be the real protection ?—It is computed by the returns upon which the drawback on refining foreign sugar is founded, that the average yield of a cwt. of raw sugar is 72 lbs. of single refined, or a proportionate quantity of double and single together. The other is a mere matter of opinion as far as we can judge ; as far as I can ascertain from the best information, I should say it contained 95 lbs. 5293. Practically the British muscovado sugar contains 72 lbs., and practically the Havannah contains 95 lbs. ?—Not exactly so. I have taken the average of British sugar, whereas I have taken the quality of foreign sugar that would barely escape the standard ; therefore it is beyond the average. 5294. As nearly as you are able, will you give the Committee the average of British and the average of foreign ?—I had better, perhaps, take the best quality of British and the best quality of foreign. The best quality of British plantation sugar that is admissible at 14 5. duty would contain above78 lbs. of refined sugar, while Havannah would contain 95 lbs. 5295. What is the difference in value between these two sugars in bond?— Our own British plantation sugar (of the finest refining quality) would now be about 27 s., whereas the standard sample of foreign sugar is 24 s. ; but the 24 s. has to pay 20 s. duty, whereas ours pays 14 s.; ours, duty paid, is 41 s., whereas theirs is 44 s. duty paid. 5296. Supposing the duty were equal, their sugar would be 3s. 2d. more?— Yes. 5297. Then, in fact, the protection is only 3 s., while it is nominally G s. ?— Arising from that standard. 5298. Sir E. Buxton.'] Does that apply to the average, do you think?—It conies to this, that anything that passes that standard pays virtually a higher duty. 5299. Are there many that are decidedly below ?—I have taken the highest quality of British plantation, and the highest quality of foreign ; short of that standard the difference would be 3 s. It I take the average quality again, that 2 s. to 3 s. perhaps will still last; perhaps it will descend to 2 s. as you get down to the others. 5300. Chairman.] The disadvantage is 3 s. ?—I think it is. 5301. That will be a premium when the duties come to be even, of 3 s. a cwt. ? —Decidedly; and the revenue will lose a great proportion, because refiners will take that quality which gives them the best extract; and if they can pay 14s. upon it, and get an extract from it which is worth 2 s. or 3 s. more, that, as far as the drawback goes, would come out of the pockets of the revenue. 5302. Sir E. Buxton.] Is this the difference invariably ?—No, I think upon the lower classes there is a difference of 2 s., but upon the better qualities there is a difference of 3 s. I should say the average is from 2 s. 6 d. to 3 s. 5303. Chairman.] Which sugars do the refiners practically prefer, the British sugar or the foreign Havannahs ?—At the same price, the foreign Havunnuhs. It becomes a matter of relative price ; but at the same price, the clayed Havannah sugars and the Java sugars. 5304. Ho you know whether similar classifications exist in other countries ?~ They did exist in the United States, but I believe they are lately abandoned ; they charge a duty of 30 per cent, upon the value. I11 the French duties there is a distinction made. The following is an account of the French duties.

William Scott,

[The Witness read the same, as follows :]

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

William Scott, Esq.

French Duties upon Sugar. French Colonial.

Bourbon.

Premier type and qualities inferior Premier to 2d ditto Above 2d ditto -

s. d. 16 8 per cwt. 18 5 „ 20 1

479

French American.

s. d. 19 10 21 7 23 3

Foreign Sugar in French Vessels. India; Brut or raw and other than white, 26s. 5d. per cwt. Elsewhere out of Europe ; ditto ditto, 28 s. 7 d. per cwt. Ports in Europe; ditto ditto, 33s. 'id. per cwt. India; white or clayed, 35 s. 2 d. per cwt. Elsewhere out of Europe; ditto ditto, 37 s. 4 d. per cwt. Ports in Europe; ditto ditto, 41 s. 9d. per cwt.

If imported in foreign vessels the duties are almost prohibitory.

,530.5. Mr. Goulburn.] You have been a long time connected with the sugar business, have you not?—Yes. 5306. And you remember it previous to the emancipation ?—Yes. 5307. At that time was there any considerable export of British sugar to the Continent?—Yes; that export lasted till it pleased the Government to do away with what had become a bounty upon refined sugar; there was an export previously to that of 40,000 to 50,000 tons annually. 5308. About one-third or one-fourth of the produce of the British colonies was at that time exported to the Continent?—Yes. 5309. What were the relative prices of British and foreign sugar in the foreign market at that time ?—There was an average value of British sugar above foreign sugar then, of from 3 s. to 5 s. 5310. That was about the amount of bounty ?—Yes, it came to the level of the foreign market, plus the bounty. The drawback on British plantation sugar was regulated upon the principle that it contains 61 lbs. of refined sugar, 18 lbs. of bastards, and 281bs. of treacle. The improvements in refining of course obtained in course of time a greater extract, and it attracted the attention of Government that there was a bounty gained upon sugar. Experiments were made under Dr. Ure; it was found that there was a bounty, and in the time of Lord Sydenham the bounty was done away. 5311. Even after the bounty was done away with British sugar competed with the sugar on the Continent, upon terms sufficiently good to enable a large export of sugar from this country to go to the Continent, did not it ?—I think we lost our export when we iost our bounty, or a great part of it, certainly. 5312. I am speaking of the period previous to the abolition of slavery?—Yes, I do not think we have exported much since the abolition of the bounty ; up to the doing away of the bounty we exported. 5313. What became of the extra supply of British sugar beyond what was consumed in the home market?—The extra supply since that has not been great, I think. 5314. In the year 1838, 32,260 tons was the amount above the consumption, and which was exported to the Continent. Must not that sugar have come in direct competition' with foreign sugar?—Of course it must on the Continent. 5315. Was not the effect of that, therefore, to keep the price in Great Britain very nearly on a par with the pi ice of foreign sugar on the Continent?—Yes. 5316. The bounty, whatever it might be, being the only difference?—Yes. 5317. Does not that, in your opinion, afford some evidence that where the means of cultivation were the same, where the party had access to the same means of labour, they could compete in a common market with very little protection, if any ?—The sugar was then cultivated by the same means, by slave labour. If you could give to the cultivation of free-labour sugar all the facilities at the same cost as slave-labour sugar now, it might be trie case still. 5318. Does your observation lead you to know whether, since the Emancipation, there has been any deterioration of the quality of British sugar ?—I think there has. 5319. Generally?—Yes. In fact, to compare British sugar with the quality 0.32. of M

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82 William Scott, Esq.

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of Porto Rico sugar, it is considerably deteriorated, each being pure muscovado sugar. a March 1848. 5320. Taking the best quality of sugar coming from the southern side of the Island of Jamaica at that time and at present, is that which comes now inferior to what came formerly ?—Yes. 5321. To what do you attribute the inferiority ?—I attribute it to the want of labour. In many cases the labourers have not worked continuously, and the sugar has been spoiling in the meantime, or greatly deteriorating in quality. 5322. Mr. M. Gibson.'] Is it a complaint that the cost of producing sugar in the West India colonies is greater than it was previously to emancipation?—I believe so; I am not a practical planter, and therefore I am not acquainted with the cost of the production exactly; I am only acquainted with it as it is brought here; but I believe there is no doubt that the cost of the cultivation of sugar is much greater now than it was in the time of slavery. 5323. I find that in a Report of a Committee of the House of Commons in the year 1807, it is stated, "Calculations have been laid before your Committee from the accounts of estates both in Jamaica and the other islands, by which it appears that the British supplies and island expenses amount to 20 s. 10 d. in the former, and to 19s. 6 d. in the latter on the cwt. of sugar, after accounting and giving credit for the amount received for the sale of rum. As these calculations are formed upon an average of years, and upon estates of the ordinary scale, and in no respects unusually circumstanced, it appears to your Committee that these sums per cwt. of sugar may be taken as the average expense of cultivation, independent of interest upon the capital, and your Committee are confirmed in this opinion by finding a similar calculation in the Report made by the Sugar Distillery Committee in the last Parliament." Do you believe, from your knowledge of the West India interest, that now the cost of the cultivation of sugar, exclusive of the interest upon capital, and allowing for the rum, is greater than 20 s. tod. a cwt. ?—I cannot practically answer the question, not being a cultivator of sugar. 5324. You say there is much more saccharine matter in Havannah sugars or in Porto Rico sugars than in West Indian sugars ?—I did not say it was the case with Porto Rico sugar, but I spoke of Havannah sugar. 5325. What is the reason of that?—They are clayed, while ours are pure muscovado sugars. 5326. They have undergone a higher state of manufacture?—Yes. 5327. You have spoken of the sugar imported in France; do you know anything about the beetroot sugar in France ?—I cannot say that I know anything about it. I believe there lias been a great increase of sugar manufactured from the beetroot. 5328. Does the beetroot sugar in France compete with the colonial sugar?— I am not practically acquainted with that. 5329. Do you know anything about the subject ?—Not in reference to beetroot sugar. 5330. You can give the Committee no information as to the importation of colonial sugar into France?—Only as to the rate of duty. 5331. You know nothing as to the comparative position of the beetroot sugar and the colonial sugar in France?—No. 5332. What is the average price at this moment of British West India sugar ?—24 s. 5333. Do you think that that price would have been remunerative if emancipation had not taken place ?—I should think not. 5334. Not even if they had had slaves?—I cannot say, 5335• I find the average price of sugar was stated in the year 1830, which was during the time of slavery in the West Indies, at 24 s. 10 d., and it was complained then that the cost of production and the charges of import and sales, amounted to 24s. 4d.; "thus proving that on the average of estates there was no return for capital invested, and that on many estates a positive loss was incurred so that the present price would not be an adequate one, even supposing no change whatever had taken place in the condition of the labouring population in the West Indies, but every thing had remained as it was before?—The production was a great deal larger at the time alluded to; but I really am unable to speak to any points connected with the cultivation of sugar. 5336. For anything you know, the present price is a remunerating price ?— I do not know personally anything about it. 5337. Do

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5337. Do you mean to say that the whole depreciation in the price of colonial William Scott, Esq. sugar has been caused by the admission of foreign sugar ?—The greater part of a March 1848. it, I think, is. 5338. How much?—I should say 4-5ths of the depreciation. 5339. You think that sugar would not have partaken with other commodities in the depreciation that has taken place in consequence of the monetary crisis, if the Bill of 1846 had not passed?—I think so, for this reason, the great depreciation in the price of sugar took place before the straitness of money became so great. The depreciation in the price of sugar took place between the months of January 1847 and July 1847; whereas the pressure for money did not arise till after that period. I do not think there is any trade in London that is less affected by any crisis of that kind than the sugar trade. It is not a speculative trade. It is a sound healthy trade carried on by men of capital, who are generally very void of speculation. I think as a proof of that, I may mention that during the whole of the year 1847, which we know was a year of extreme pressure, there were only two wholesale houses as sugar dealers that failed. They paid very handsome dividends ; and they failed before the crisis took place, in consequence, as I firmly believe (because I was a creditor of one of the estates), of the fall in the price of sugar that took place between July 1846 and May 1847. Supposing we had not had the great monetary panic between July and December, we might have recovered one or two shillings a cwt. probably; the consumption was checked in the last six months of the year, notwithstanding the cheapness of the price, which in some measure prevented the recovery of 1 s. or 2 s. a cwt. in the price of sugar; but the great decrease took place between January and July, whereas the great pressure did not arise till the autumn. 5340. You are not of opinion that the greatly increased supplies of sugar from our own colonies have had some effect also in the way of the prices ?—Our consumption of 1847 very singularly tallied as nearly as possible with the production of the British colonies in the same year; the production of the British colonies of 1847 was 289,000 tons; the consumption was exactly the same amount, 289,000 tons. We consumed about 50,000 of foreign sugar, thereby leaving an accumulation of stock of British plantation sugar. 5341. There has been a greatly increased supply since that time, has not there; the last importations from the colonies have greatly increased ?—Yes, last year. 5342. Have not those augmented importations had the effect of reducing the price of sugar in this country ?—They have added to the general import, and therefore have had so far a progressive effect. 5343. Has not the general production of sugar throughout the world been large during the past year, and has not that had an effect generally upon the price of sugar throughout the world ?—Yes, I think so. 5344. You say this depreciation of price would not have take place if the law in reference to sugar had remained unchanged in 1846. Under the law as it previously stood, foreign free-labour sugar might have been admitted ?—Yes. 5345. Do you think the importation of foreign free-labour sugar would have had no effect upon the price of our colonial sugar?—I think very little, for this reason, the importation of foreign free-labour sugar has not been large ; the first six months of the year, when the fall took place, the quantity of free-labour sugar that came in was very small. I think as far as we could compute it, it has not been above 12,000 or 15,000 tons. 5346. How much foreign free-labour sugar would there have been available to import into the British market?—The quantity of foreign free-labour sugar is generally estimated at 60,000 tons of Java sugar, about 20,000 tons of sugar of Manilla. As to Siam or China sugar I cannot say. 5347. Would there have been as much of that as is equal to the whole quantity of foreign sugar that has been imported ?—I think, perhaps, nearly about that. The quantity imported is 120,000 tons of sugar, and there is produced about 120,000 tons of free-labour sugar in the world. 5348. Therefore all this supply of foreign sugar might have been obtained out of the free-labour produce, even if slave-labour sugar had continued to be excluded ? —That depends upon the regulations of the countries to whom those colonies belong. If Holland had directed all her Java sugar to this market, it might have been so ; but that is not likely. We know in the beginning of the year, in consequence M 2 0.33. of

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

of the high price of sugar here, two or three cargoes belonging to the Netherlands Trading Company were sold here; they were purchased by our own refiners 2 March 1848. partly; there was a remonstrance made, however, by the refiners of Holland to that company, for not keeping up the supply which they were understood to be bound to do ; the consequence was, that although a certain proportion of the produce of Java that was free came here, no further supply of sugar belonging to the Netherlands Trading Company did come here. 5349. You say it was the law of 1846 that did all the mischief, and yet you say that even if that law had not passed a sufficiency of foreign free-labour sugar might have been found; is there any reason to suppose that that would not have been imported here and replaced on the Continent by slave-labour sugar ?—I think there is every reason ; it has not been so yet; the produce of Java has mainly gone to Holland. 5350. Has there been any difference of price, taking into consideration the quality, in Holland between free-labour and slave-labour sugar; quality for quality, have not they commanded the same price ?—By the price current I have in my hand it would not appear so ; it is the price current of A. Campbell and Com pany, dated the 1st of January 1848, from Rotterdam, in which the prices of Java sugar are proportionately above the prices of Havannah and Brazil sugar. 5351. Perhaps it is difficult in that price current to see what the qualities of the sugar were?—They are distinguished here : grey Java sugar is quoted at the price in British currency of 22 s. 4 d. to 24 s.; yellow Havannah sugar is quoted at 19 s. 6d. to 24 s., therefore showing a difference in favour rather of Java sugar. 5352. Foreign slave-labour sugar and free-labour sugar are admitted, are they not, into Holland on equal terms; there is no difference of duty?—lam not aware of any difference in the duty. 5353. They compete freely in fact in that market?—There is an advantage to Java sugar, inasmuch as coming in Dutch ships it has an advantage of 1 s. or 10 d. a cwt. over sugar brought in foreign ships. 5354. You are concerned in the sale of sugar; has not the diminished price been an advantage to the consumers of sugar and to the retail trader ?—I have no doubt the cheap price of an article is an advantage to a consumer. 5355- You think therefore that the Bill of 1846 has conferred a benefit upon the people of this country?—I have not gone that length. I said the cheap price ; but that cheap price was produced by the reduction of the duty in 1845. 5356. Then it is not the Bill of 1846 that has lowered the price?—It has lowered the net price ; but the first reduction of price to the consumer was effected by the reduction of the duty from 24s. to 14 s. 5357. Do you mean that the consumer does nut get his sugar now cheaper than he did then ?—Certainly he does. 5358. Cheaper than he did since the duty of 14 s. was imposed ?—Certainly he does. the reduction has been produced by the Bill of 1 846, has not that 5359. conferred a benefit upon the consumer ?—If you lower the price of an article the consumer must get a benefit. 5360. Have not the retail dealers in sugar derived benefit ?—There has been more sugar sold, and therefore the dealers have had a larger trade. 5361. If, therefore, you were to raise the price of sugar by any legislative measure, you would inflict injury upon the retail dealer of sugar in this country, and also upon the consumers of sugar, would not you?—It would create higher prices, but I do not think it would be an injury to the dealer. 5362. If increased trade has been a benefit to the retail dealer in sugar, it "would be injurious to diminish the trade by raising the price?—I did not say that it had been beneficial to the retail dealers. 5363. Has not it been beneficial to the grocers ?—They can answer for themselves; as a broker, 1 know that the reduced price has lessened our commissions. A half per cent, upon a cwt. of sugar at 40 s. is much less than a half per cent, upon 60s. 5364. Perhaps that is a benefit to the growers of the sugar, so far ?—The lower the price, the less commission they pay. not you think this reduction of price must have been beneficial to 5365. Do the persons engaged in the sugar trade in this country ?—I think that is a question that only grocers can answer; I question myself whether it has been so; competition has increased to such a degree, and the profit upon sugar is so very small,

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that I should question whether they get any profit by it at all. The fact is, that William Scott, Esq. sugar is made an article of sale as a kind of decoy duck into a grocer's shop, they 3 March 1848. cheapen the sugar in order to sell a pound of tea, or any other commodity, at a higher price. 5366. If they sell more sugar, perhaps the brokers themselves may make up in quantity what they lose in price ?—It may be so. 5367. Upon the whole, you must admit, must not you, that it is beneficial to brokers, to refiners, to grocers, and to consumers in this country, to have a low priced sugar?—That may be very doubtful, because if the low price of sugar tends to put out of cultivation a greater quantity of that sugar, grocers, refiners, and all will participate in the evils of the high price that must ultimately arise. 5368. If the low price lasts?—And if protection lasts, it may be beneficial. 5369. If the supply of sugar to the British market lasts, the broker, the grocer, the refiner, and the consumer must be benefited. Is not that so?—No, not the broker. 5370. If they sell more, they will be benefited ?—They will sell more at a lower price. 5371. But they may make up in quantity?—Then it comes to a level. 5372. And inasmuch as the amount of revenue derived from sugar depends upon the quantity of sugar brought into England, will not the revenue also be benefited ?—Certainly. 5373. Therefore it will benefit the people of this country by lessening other taxation, will not it?—Those are all general principles. 5374. Mr. Goulburn.] Do not you think it would be a still greater benefit to the consumer if the West Indians were compelled to grow sugar, and give the people the sugar in this country ?—Certainly it would be a still greater benefit to the consumer. 5374. And if it paid the same duty the revenue would not suffer ?—No. 5376. You have been asked as to the effect of beetroot sugar on the produce of the West Indies ; you said you knew very little about it?—I am not acquainted with it. 5377. If beetroot sugar has an effect in reducing the value of sugar of the British West Indies, must not it have an equal effect in reducing the value of sugar the produce of foreign countries? — Assuredly. 5378. Consequently it does not affect the comparative value of those two sugars in the market?—No, it goes into the aggregate consumption of Europe. 5379. Mr. Miles.] Do you think that the consumption in this country depends entirely upon the cheapness of price ?—Not entirely. I think it depends upon the state ot employment of the people generally, and their capability to buy sugar. The price of sugar may be low, but the people may be unemployed and unable to buy it. 5380. Have you any data to go by, from past experience, upon that point?—In 1840, when the price of sugar was extremely high, the consumption was lower than it has been in any previous year of late : that was the first year after the total emancipation of the slaves, and there was a very small production indeed from the West Indies. No foreign sugar was then admissible. The price was high, and the consumption was small. 5381. What was the effect last year?—There was an increase of consumption last year. 5382. Of 50,000 tons, was not there?—No, of 28,000 tons. 5383. At what periods did the increase take place?—More than its proper proportion took place in the first six months of the year; more than half the increased consumption took place in the first six months. 5384. Was the price higher or lower in those first six months than in the last? —Higher. 5385. Therefore when the price was lower and the people were out of employment, the consumption fell off considerably ?—-It did. 5386. You have stated, in the early part of your evidence, that there was more muscovado sugar made in Cuba than was usual ?—Than had been previously made. 5387. Do you know what was the cause of that ?—I think it arises from its being a description of sugar more approaching to West India sugar, and consequently better known in the consumption of this country. 5388. Have Jamaica and St. Vincent sugars any preference whatever among 0.32 M 3 refiners

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

refiners over any other qualities of sugar ?—Jamaica sugar is preferred over any other quality of muscovado sugar, but it is not preferred over any clayed sugars. 2 March 1848. The description of sugar that is most preferred in this country, not by refiners, but by the consumers of raw sugars generally, is Porto Rico sugar. It has been this year remarkably fine, and there having been a great scarcity in the market of fine muscovado sugar, it has commanded extreme prices. 5389. And it is more used for private consumption?—The consumption of sugar in this country and the consumption of sugar on the Continent is of a different character. The consumption on the Continent is chiefly lump sugar and molasses; in this country there is a great consumption of muscovado sugar in its muscovado state. 5390. Did you ever turn your attention to the refining of sugar in bond ?— Yes. 5391. It is now done for export, is not it?—Yes. 5392. Do you know whether there is any difficulty attendant upon it?—None whatever. 5393. Are not refineries specially kept for the purpose ?—Entirely. 5394. They are not allowed to refine in bond at one period, and for home consumption at another ?—No, not in the same building. 5395. Do you think any evil would be likely to attend it, if refiners were allowed to refine one month in bond, and the next for home consumption ?—Evil would attach to it so far as this, that while the refiner is refining in bond, he refines entirely under the Custom-house survey; then when the Custom-house survey ceases, of course he would be compelled to clear his refinery of all that had come in duty free; therefore it would be inconvenient so far. 5396. It would be a loss of time?—Yes. In the process of refining there are a great many syrups, and various descriptions of semi-refined sugar that enter into the process of refining, that would be disposed of to a disadvantage. 5397. You think if the West Indian were allowed to refine his sugar in bond, he must be compelled to have it refined in some manufactory especially reserved for the purpose ?—Yes ; the revenue might regulate that in some way, I should think ; at present, all that is refined in bond is refined under the special superintendence of the Custom-house officers. 5398. Do you think it would be a great advantage to the West Indies to have their sugar refined in bond?—It might be an advantage to have the option of it; refining being better understood here than in the West Indies. 5399. You have not turned your attention much to it?—No. 5400. Have you considered the new Bill which allows molasses to be distilled ; the new Distilleries Bill ?—I have not seen the new Bill; I understand that is to be the fact. 5401. Do you know the provisions of it ?—-No. 5402. Or what the effect would be ?—The effect of it is very doubtful, I think, as to any benefit to the West Indian; I should rather say that the effect of its value may be overrated. You may be allowed as the law now stands, to distil from foreign molasses; the consequence is, that you make a great deal of spirit that would compete in the home market with the spirit or ruin brought in from the West Indies. Now that competition would be to the prejudice of the rum, whereas the present rum is protected by protective duties against foreign rum. 5403. Do you think that if sugar were to be allowed in distilleries it would tend to any increase of consumption?—I am strongly of that opinion. 3404. Do you mean in reference to its being used singly, or with corn ? With corn. 5405. Would it be used in the first operation with corn?—I think it might, hut I cannot say practically. The admission of sugar into distilleries was first granted last January twelvemonth. 5406. That was separate?—Yes; upon conversing with one or two distillers who used it, they told me distinctly that there was great inconvenience from being obliged to clear out all the produce that had been made from grain before they were allowed to begin upon sugar, whereas that inconvenience would not have existed had they been allowed to mix them. 5407. You think they would use a large amount if they were permitted to do so ? —It would depend entirely, of course, upon the price of grain. 5408. Alter they hud distilled the first process, they would probably put in a considerable

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a considerable quantity of sugar to work off the lower part ?—I have been William Scott, Esq. informed so. I have been told that after the first process is over they can then use sugar to a very considerable advantage by mixing it in the second process 2 March 1848. with the malt; but of course it would require a practical distiller to speak to that. 5409. You are well acquainted with the classification duties ?—Yes. 5410. Have you heard many complaints with regard to them ?—No, I have not. In the early part of the time, the Act coming into force when the revenue officers were not practically acquainted with it, there was a good deal of complaint; but lately, the thing having gone on, the officers have become acquainted with their duty, and I know of but few complaints. 5411. Do you think the standard is taken at a fair rate?—I think it is taken too high. 5412. The quality of sugar ought to be fixed lower, you think?—I think so. 5413. Can you tell the Committee how much it is too high in point of value ? —I should say it is from 3s. to 45. too high, or about 35. 5414. Can you suggest any mode by which an improvement might be made, either in the wording of the Act or in any other way, so that the Custom-house officers might arrive at a fairer estimate?—No; as the Act stands at present it is white clayed sugar, or sugar rendered equal to white clayed. 5415. Do you think it would be a fair way to take it as the Americans charged their duty, simply as brown and white sugar?—No ; there was a great objection felt by the East Indian importers; a great deal of their sugar does not contain much saccharine matter in it, but it contains a great deal of colour: it was to obviate the difficulty to them that the words "colour," "grain," and " saccharine matter," were introduced into the Act. 5416. You do not think there is any real improvement to be effected in the Act of Parliament as regards those duties ?—Not except by taking a lower standard. 5417. If you did so, would that exclude the sugar of Demerara?—No. 5418. Not the crystallized sugars ?—Some of them pay as it is. 5419. Very few of them pay, do they?—Not many of them. 5420. Would it exclude any of the East Indian sugar?—I think a lower standard might. 5421. Would it exclude any of the Jamaica sugars?—No. 5422. Your opinion is, that the standard should be reduced is. to 3s.?—Yes, is. to 3s. 5423. Sir E. Buxton.] When you spoke of the difference of quality of British colonial sugar and Cuban sugar, for refining, did you mean that as referring to any particular sort ?—The general average. I mentioned that the best sample of Jamaica sugar for refining was sold in the market this week for 41 s., whereas the best foreign sugar that would come under the standard would he worth 44s. 5424. Does not sugar of some of the other islands produce a great deal more of the saccharine quality than that of Jamaica?—No, I think the best Jamaica sugar produces more than any other ; that is the quality of sugar most in estimation by British refiners. 5425. Chairman.'] The Vice-President of the Board of Trade asked you whether the increased delivery of sugar, and the reduction of price, must not have been very advantageous to the grocers and those engaged in the trade : taking a practical review of the year 1847, has not it been one of the most disastrous years to all persons connected with the sugar trade, whether they be sugar planters, sugar brokers, or grocers, that ever occurred during your recollection? — I do not think it has been a very disastrous year to either grocers or refiners ; it has been a very good year to refiners. 5426. That lias been in refining foreign sugar, in some degree?—Yes, the refiner has had that privilege. The only way in which the refiner has been suffering during the last year, and that was in the early part of the year, arose from the progressive fall that took place: for instance, sugar went down, we will say, from 375. to 29s., and that fall was continuous; if he bought sugar at 37s. when the refined sugar was on that day at such a price as would have given him a good result had that price continued, by the time that the sugar was manufactured the raw material had fallen again, perhaps 10 per cent.; therefore his would fall in the same way: he was working upon a falling market, in fact; but since July lie has been working upon a steady market, and has done well. M 4 0.32. 5427. You

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,5427. You were also asked as to the depreciation of sugar, and whether that had not been a consequence of the late prevalent distress; did not the depreciation of sugar, and the ruin of the sugar trade, rather precede the severe monetary crisis than take place as a consequence of it? —I think so. 5428. To a certain extent the money crisis was a consequence of the injury to the sugar trade, possibly?—By the ruin of so many mercantile houses connected with the sugar trade, such as the Mauritius houses, much distrust was created. The monetary crisis was connected, however, with many circumstances besides the sugar trade. 5429. But the state of the sugar trade was one cause ?—Yes. S. B. Moody, Esq., called in; and Examined.

S. B. Moody, Esq.

5430. Chairman.'] ARE you an Engineer?—I am. 5431. You served your apprenticeship as an engineer in Manchester, did you not?—Yes. 5432. You have also learned the trade of sugar refining?—Yes, in London. 5433. Having done this, in 1843 you went out to the West Indies?—I did. 5434. Are you also an associate of the Institute of Civil Engineers?—I am. 5435. Will you inform the Committee what induced you to choose the West Indies as the field of your operations ?—I had been informed that there were great opportunities of improving the state of the West Indies by introducing scientific machinery, and therefore I went out for the purpose of endeavouring to introduce that machinery, with the view of forwarding my own interests, and the interests of the West Indies too. 5436. Did you become acquainted with many sugar-making districts in the West Indies?—A great many in Barbadoes, St. Vincent, St. Kitts, Demerara, Santa Croix, and also partially in Cuba and Louisiana. I did not put up machinery there, but I had to inquire into their expenses and their mode of cultivation ; also with the beetroot sugar of France I became a little acquainted. 5437. What is the result of your observations as to the comparative yield of sugar from a West Indian sugarcane, and from the improved processes of obtaining sugar from the beetroot?—In the beetroot works they practically get about 6 per cent, of the sugar that is in the beet. The beet contains about 10 per cent, and they get rather better than 6 per cent.; that is 66 per cent, of the weight there is of sugar in the beet. In the West Indies the cane contains on an average about 16 or 18 per cent, from the scientific experiments of chemists, and they do not get above 4 to 6 per cent, upon the average. While the manufacturer of the beetroot gets two-thirds of its contents, the sugar- cane planter gets about one-third of the contents of his plant. 5438. There is more saccharine matter then in the cane than in the beetroot? — Considerably; there is nearly double the amount of saccharine matter in the cane to what there is in the beetroot, but the planter gets less. 5439. How do you account for that?—I account for it because they have not got the same processes in the West Indies that they have in the beetroot works; they have not for a great many reasons. In our own colonies till 1844 we were not allov\ed to make a high quality of sugar, and consequently there was no advantage in introducing good machinery. The measure then passed allowed us to make a higher quality of sugar, and therefore gave us an opportunity of introducing machinery to do it. 5440. Was that as a measure of protection to the British refiners that you were prevented?—It was on account of the protection to British refiners previously to 1844. Subsequently to 1844 there was still a degree of protection, but not to the same exteqt. 5441. Is there any reason why the process of extracting the saccharine matter from the sugar-cane should not be made as perfect and as successful as the process of extracting the saccharine matter from the beetroot?—Yes, there are great reasons : if we examine the machinery that is used in the beetroot works, it consists of steam clarifiers and charcoal apparatus for removing the colour from the juice and vacuum machinery; all of which come to a very large expense, and require very great cure and constant attention in their management. In the first place, there is a great deal of difficulty in obtaining credit in the West Indies at present to get the machinery ; the cost is very large. On one estate in Demerara, for making about 500 hogsheads of sugar, it cost 8,000 l. That was the cost

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cost of the machinery and the cost of erecting it. Then when it is up it requires S. 13. Moody, Esq. constant and careful attention, and consumes coal, therefore it requires attentive labour and an increased amount of supplies in the shape of coal; but if you do not 2 March 1848. get attentive labour, the juice, particularly while in the charcoal, sours. In the beet-root works they can command a careful attention, which gives them a sweet syrup through the charcoal. In the West Indies I found that utterly impossible, at least in the British colonies. I tried it, and I found I could not get a negro to pay the attention to it which it required. The result was that it frequently soured, and the sugar that came home sold at a very inferior price; it was very uncertain in quality. Another item is the cost of coal: in the beet-root works they can get people to attend to making the fires under the boiler, and the result is that the fuel is not expensive. Even under our own steam-engines, which have been long in use in the West Indies, we find the consumption of coal is three or four times what it is in England, in proportion to the horse power, and it is increased even above what it was in slave times. Therefore, the great expense of fuel and the difficulty of getting continuous attentive labour has been a great drawback to this machinery as respects the working of it, while the present state of credit of the West Indies has rendered it almost impossible to get it put up ; in fact, I was cautioned by merchants that they would no longer be responsible for the payments for such purposes. 5442. You stated that you had also been in Santa Croix and Louisiana ?— I have inquired into the expense and mode of working in Louisiana; I have not been personally there, but some of my engineers have been employed there as representing me. 5443. Did your representatives inform you that there is less difficulty in obtaining continuous labour, and less consequent waste of fuel, in those islands?—Undoubtedly in Santa Croix ; I put up the machinery myself, and therefore I saw how, with even the mitigated slavery used there, there was a greater degree of continuous attentive labour. I could always get people, and they attended to the work that was given them to do. In Louisiana, in the same way, I had the same command of labour which I had in Santa Croix; and they are not only able to work the sugar more profitably, but both there and in Cuba they are able to get machinery at a less price, because they can work for 24 hours in the day during crop time, but in the British colonies we cannot. 5444. Can you give the Committee any estimate of the advantage which that gives in the cheap production of sugar ?—The advantage of being able to do the same work with half the amount of machinery is very great sometimes'; it would entirely depend upon the amount of the estate. With reference to this estate in Demerara, which required an outlay of 8,000 l., it would have cost only 4,000 I. to have done the same work in Cuba or Louisiana, which is a very material item in the cost of production ; taking the interest 011 the machinery at 10 percent., it is nearly 1 s. per cwt.; 500 hogsheads are about 400 tons, that makes a difference of 1 s. a cwt. Then as to the question of fuel, there is a great saving also. I could not very well go into that, because it depends upon the nature of the juice; some juices will take more fuel to evaporate than others, but it is a very material item in the work of grinding the canes in Demerara. As compared with what it was in the time of slavery in Demerara, I found it was about 1 s. 6 d. per cwt. on the sugar made. 5445. That is merely upon the fuel used in grinding ?—Yes, the difference of fuel in grinding, not in boiling. It helps to increase the amount of supplies as contra-distinguished from wages in the West Indies; the coals, hogsheads, and puncheons on an estate making 650 hogsheads in 1831, in Demerara, cost J ,2051. sterling; of that amount 583 puncheons, at 20 s., would be 583 /.; 650 hogsheads at 16 cwt. of sugar each, 12 s. a hogshead, 3901.; leaving a balance for the coal of about 232 I., in the year 1831, which is about 7 s. per ton. The coal now is generally estimated at one hogshead of coal of about 14 cwt. to grind one hogshead of sugar of about 16 cwt. ; this coal at seven dollars, exclusive of the hogshead, equals about 1 I. 175. 7 d. per ton, as compared with 7 s. in 1831 or 1832, being a difference of about 1 s. 6 d. a cwt. As that is compared with the grinding, it is a much greater extra expense as compared with the boiling; perhaps you have to evaporate 2,400 gallons to about 240 for each ton of sugar, which would be a very large sum ; it would take boilers of from 60 to 70 horse power to do that for three tons of sugar per day. 5446. What do you estimate that at ?—1 have not gone into that; it is easy 0.32. N 10

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

5. B. Moody, Esq. to compare it. 2 March 1848.

Vide Appendix.

That is an extra expense per day of 1 /. 10 s. for working a 10horse power engine ; therefore, for working a 60-horse power engine, it would be six times that, which would be 9 l. extra per day; that is, if you introduce a complete system of working by the beet-root machinery. 5447. You reckon there should be a 60-horse power steam boiler to make about three tons of sugar a day?—Yes; so that there is 9/. extra for three tons of sugar per day. Therefore there is an extra expense in grinding and boiling, of about 4 s. 6 d. per cwt., from not having the fires properly attended to. In Demerara, when we tried the machinery first of all, I have seen the steam get very low. It is a great point in using the improved machinery, to keep the heat at a regular temperature as nearly as possible. After having it very low, we would speak, perhaps, to the fireman about it, and then he would have the safety valve blowing off; and when I have gone out to speak to him about that, I have seen him putting in more fuel, and it is in that way that fuel is wasted; sometimes the steam is too low, and sometimes a great deal too high, (The Witness delivered in a Paper.) 5448. Do not the furnaces go out in consequence of your not being able to get night labour ?—Yes ; and there is the expense of getting heat into your fires next morning. I have not made an estimate of what that would be, because I have not worked it day and night. 5449. Were you able to work day and night there would be a considerable saving, would not there?—Yes; but the beet-root works do not work day and night. The Cuba and Louisiana works do. 5450. The Committee wish to compare the expense of making sugar in the British free colonies with the expense of making it in slave-holding colonies ?— I give a difference of 4 s. 6 d. per cwt., as compared with the amount of fuel used in Demerara during mitigated slavery. Reasonably we may suppose that at least the same difference would occur between the British West Indies as free colonies, and Louisiana and Cuba. They have, besides, the extra advantage of working day and night; but that is a point I have not gone into, therefore I cannot give any detailed information as to the extra advantage which they would derive from that. 5451. This difference of 4 I. 10 s. a ton does not include working day and night?—No ; that 4 l. 10 s. is only working 12 hours in the British West indies now, as compared with working 12 hours in the British West Indies in former times. There is another reduction of 1 s. a cwt., which other people have as an advantage over the British West Indies, in getting machinery at half the cost,; v\ hich makes a total difference of 5 s. 6 d. 5452. So that altogether the difference is 5 s. 6 d. ?—Yes ; supposing you have continuous and attentive labour to make good sugar in your boiling-house ; the slave owners are able to secure that, but we are not. power of continuous labour would be an advantage also in regard 5453. This to the quality of the sugar, would it not ?—Undoubtedly it would. I find that on the estate in Cuba, where this machinery was put up, the power of having continuous labour made an improvement in the quality of the sugar of about two reals per aroba, of about 25 lbs. English ; that is about eight reals or 4 s. per cwt. ,5454. Have you found any unwillingness on the part of the West Indians to introduce mechanical improvements ?—Previously to 1844 there was, because there was a doubt as to what duty their sugar would be admitted at, but after 1844 the demand for machinery continued to increase materially, and very promptly to increase. After 1846, or about the autumn of 1846, it was decidedly checked, both by the planters being unwilling to get it and the merchants being unwilling to pay for it, most of the planters having to go to the absentee merchants for. money to pay for it. 5455. Taking the period between 1844 and 1846, did you receive a great number of orders for machinery ?—Yes; altogether I received orders for about 11,000 l. worth of machinery for Barbadoes, and nearly 14,000/. worth for Demerara. It was chiefly in 1845 and the beginning of 1846 that I received those orders ; but since then a check has been given to all that. 5456. Have you found that the orders for improved machinery have proceeded from residents in the islands, or from absentee planters living in this country ?— Almost entirely from absentees ; those few planters who were resident in the islands had to go to the absentees for their money to do it. result of your experience is, that the planters living in Great Britain 5457. The are

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489 /

are much more prone to improve their estates and improve their processes of making sugar than the residents ?—Undoubtedly; not only that, but they are the people who send out the most guano and the most agricultural implements, and the most improvements of almost every kind. 5458. In those periods, prior to the Act of 1846, did you observe that the residents in England were very active in sending out improved implements?— Yes ; I have mentioned that I received orders for a certain amount of machinery, but a great deal of machinery went from other parties as well as through myself. I should say there was, generally speaking, a great stimulus given to every kind of improvement during that period. 5459. Upon the passing of the Act of 1846 was a great check given to it?— Decidedly ; in fact all the orders stopped towards the end of 1846. Some went forward just immediately after the Bill, but in the beginning of 1847 the orders were countermanded which had been given, and since that time I have not heard of anybody sending out machinery through myself or any other house. 5460. Are there not also other difficulties in working the machinery, from the want of engineers and mechanics, and people to repair the machinery ?—Yes; to the estates to which I sent out the 8,000 I. worth of machinery, there was a sugarboiler sent out at 400 I. a year, and an engineer at 390 l. a year, for those two estates alone. That alone is nearly 800 l., or 2 s. a cwt. on the amount of sugar which was previously made. Their presence improved the quality of the sugar, of course. 5461. To what extent, do you think ?—That is difficult to tell; we only know that they can do without those people in Cuba. 5462. In Cuba, where slavery exists, can they trust to their slaves for the performance of that labour ?—They would have one man, perhaps, at a lower salary ; they would not have had two first-class men ; they would have a man at a salary of 200 I. a year, which would make a difference of 1 s. 6 d. per cwt. 5463. Do you consider that the foreign colonists have any advantages in their manufacture of sugar by the ordinary process over the British colonists ?—Yes, they have a very great advantage. In the first quality of their goods, which come to the grocers, the white-clayed, they have not so great an advantage, because the grocers rather prefer a little moist sugar; at least so I was told by grocers when I was introducing those improvements; but in the other qualities of sugar, which the refiners use, they have a great advantage, because they come home dry; therefore the refiner obtains more saccharine matter. This dryness is obtained not by great skill on their part, but by having a thorough command of unskilled labour. They put their sugar into moulds, which requires no sort of skill, but requires labour, and by means of that labour they are able to make the dry sugars. We have not got the labour to put it in the moulds; we were not allowed to do it until 1844, and now we have not the labour to do it. 5464. You were not allowed to do it on account of the refiners here ?—Yes. 5465. Is that a very laborious process, the putting it into moulds ?—Yes, very laborious. If a person goes into a refinery here, he would see that the bulk of the people are employed about the sugar moulds. 5466. Is it one of the employments in which they generally work stripped ? —Yes, almost entirely ; the Germans do it in our own refineries. 5467. Could not Europeans be employed in those works in the West Indies ? —I am rather afraid of it; I sent out myself about nine engineers in the last three years, and of those some of them served their time at the same place with myself, therefore I know they were respectable men, yet out of those, four died. They were men engaged at good salaries, and they were not engaged in laborious occupations ; therefore I should say, as a general rule, it is almost impossible to work Europeans, except Spaniards and Portuguese ; not British subjects. 5468. Do you think Maltese and Genoese might do?—Yes, nil natives of warm climates. The Portuguese in Demerara do work, and they work in the field; some of the best cane-cutters are Portuguese; when they first land they cut canes by the job, and save a little money, and then they turn hucksters. 5469. Has your attention been drawn to the manner in which the cultivation of sugar in Louisiana lias been increased ?—Yes. I find from returns that in 1844 there were 70 new estates put into sugar in Louisiana ; in several of the lower parts of Louisiana the cotton cultivation has been converted into sugar. The receipts ol the sugar, from the 1st of September 1846 to the 1st of September 0.32. N 2 1847,

S. B. Moody, Esq.

2 Match 1848.

92 S. B. Moody, 2

March

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Esq.I- 1847, were 80,000 tons, though that was a crop which suffered very much that year by an early frost, against 90,000 in 1845-46, which was a good crop, and 1848. against a good crop of 50,000 tons in 1841-42 ; so that it had very nearly doubled between 1841 and 1847. The crop received from the interior, from the 1st of September 1847 up to January 19th, 1848, was 45,679 hogsheads, against 38,961 hogsheads the previous year, being an increase of about 20 per cent. The receipt of cotton from the interior into Louisiana fell off very much. In 1845 and 1846 the receipt of cotton from the interior was altogether 453,000 bales; and in 1846-47, 374,000 bales. A great deal of this short crop was also owing to the uplands of Alabama and Tennessee being put into Indian corn. The receipts have fallen off, from the 1st of September 1847 to January 1848, from 86,000 to 39,000 bales, which was attributable to the change in the cultivation of the upland districts into corn, and in the lower districts the falling off was attributable to the conversion of cotton into sugar. The price of growing the produce in Louisiana is about three dollars, or about 12s. 6d. a cwt. 5470. Do you know how many hogsheads of sugar they reckon to each slave in Louisiana :—About 2,000 lbs. weight of sugar they reckon to an acre in Louisiana, and about 4,000 lbs. to a slave ; that is from planted canes. In the British West Indies v\e got about 4,000 lbs. from an acre, and about 2,500 lbs. from a labourer. 5471. The land in the West Indies produces a great deal more sugar, but the freman produces less ?—Yes. 5472. Do you apprehend that the labour of the slaves is made very severe there ?—In Cuba, during crop time. A Cuba planter with whom I was in treaty in reference to the amount of machinery he would require, told me' they began work between two and three on Sunday afternoon, and they worked till about the same time on Saturday, without stopping the works. They have what are called on board ship " dog watches" during the night; not that the same people work the whole time, but after the mill is put out a certain number of hands go to rest for a couple of hours at a time while the others work, then they go to work and come back again; they have about two hours at a turn each time. Of course that is very severe work. It is by that means they are able to do with about half the amount of machinery which we can do with in the West Indies. 5473. And less than half the amount of fuel, because the fire is never allowed to go out ?—On account of being able to ensure attention to the fires. 5474. Do you know anything of the expense of maintaining slaves in Cuba? — I have the expense of producing sugar from an estate in Porto Rico, which takes 10,000 dollars to produce 534,246 lbs. of sugar. It is at the rate of 8 s. 6d. a cwt. after deducting offal. 5475. That is worked by slaves ?—Yes. 5476. Have you been in Porto Rico ?—I have not been there ; I have been at St. Thomas, and stopped some time with a proprietor in Porto Rico ; in Santa Croix they are very much afraid of Porto Rico, in consequence of its producing sugar at so much cheaper a rate than they do themselves. In 1828 and 1829, the cost of producing sugar in Cuba was l0 s. a cwt., but it is now reduced to 8s. 6c?. 5477. Is that from improved machinery ?—No; that is from getting more out of the labourer; or they may get supplies cheaper ; supplies during the last 20 years have cheapened very much; goods are supplied at a much cheaper rate. 5478. Do you understand that in Cuba they have an ample supply of labour? —Their produce has increased very much, so that I suppose they have. 5479. Do you know whether that proceeds from slaves being imported, or from slaves brought from the coffee estates?—I believe it is partly from both; I have not the returns of the population, which is the only way of showing whether it is by the increase of slaves. A good many have been taken from coffee to sugar cultivation. 5480. Do you think increased skill can possibly enable the British colonies to compete with the planters of foreign countries?—No, I should say decidedly not. In the first place, the skill which is at our disposal is equally at their disposal, and they have the probability of getting a profit from the returns of their skill which we have not ; we have not the same means of applying the skill. A workman out of work is as skilled as when he is in work, but he has not the same means of applying his skill. 5481. You do not consider that any skill applied to the manufacture of beetroot

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root can enable beet-root sugar to compete with slave-grown sugar, and with the •S. B. Moody, Esq. skill put in operation by slaves?—I think not, for this reason; that in the last price current of the 17th of February 1848, in France beet-root sugar was selling 2 March 1848. at 104 francs per hundred kilogrammes, which is about 57 francs a cwt. including the duty ; there is an excise duty on beet-root sugar of 19 francs per cwt.; that leaves a net price of 38 francs, or nearly 31 s. per cwt. 5482. Mr. M. Gibson.] Is the excise duty on beet-root sugar greater than it is upon the French colonial sugar ?—I have not the last law. In 1840, there was a protection of 17 francs as against the colonial sugar. By the last law it has been equalised ; but that measure was attended with a great many restrictions on the labour in French plantations. 5483. What are those restrictions?—I do not know the details of them; I heard that there were a great many restrictions which increased the price. The price of Martinique and Guadaloupe sugar, when beet-root sugar was selling at 57 francs a cwt., was 60 francs a cwt. ; so that Martinique and Guadaloupe sugar was selling at a little higher price. 5484. Mr. Goulburn.] Was the duty then the same?—Yes; that was on the* 17th of February 1848. 5485. So that as regards the French West Indian sugar, there is a preference, exclusive of duty, of 3s. upon beet-root sugar?—Yes; I have the price of 120 francs per 50 kilogrammes for the finest refined beet-root sugar, and taking off the colonial duty of 33. 25 for that proportion, it will leave 87 francs per 50 kilogrammes, or 1 cwt.; that is without any duty at all for the best refined loaf sugar, showing that it costs a great deal more than ours, or than any other known loaf sugar obtained from sugar cane. 5486. Chairman.] But the loaf sugar from the sugar cane in France comes up to the same price in France, does it not ?—I have not got the price of loaf sugar ; but one price would rule the other probably. 5487. Can you state to the Committee what a set of machinery would cost sufficient to make about 800 tons of sugar, in 116 days of 15 hours?—With the complete buildings, and not including tramroad, but the still-house and the beet-root machinery, it costs 15,000 I. or 16,000 I. 5488. From what you know of the present state of credit in the West Indies, would you say that no planter would be able to borrow that money to set up such machinery?—It is much more difficult than it was at the end of 1846, when I was engaged with another party in getting up works. A proposal was made to Government that they should agree to advance half if the planters would advance the other half, taking the sum required to be 16,000 I.; that if the Government would advance 8,000 I. the planters would advance the other 8,000 I.; and it was very difficult even at that time to get persons to take an interest in it; but a person afterwards got a charter under the belief that he could get the whole sum advanced by English capitalists, and I saw him in the beginning of 1847, when he had obtained the charter, and he said that he could not get the money ; and if there was that difficulty at the end of 1846 and the beginning of 1847, the difficulty would be far greater now. 5489. If such works were completed, would it enable the British planter to compete with foreign colonies ?—Decidedly not. Supposing the whole to be completed, and that it worked satisfactorily, we should not be able to compete with the foreign colonies in the cultivation of sugar. I went into the expenses of an estate in Demerara, in which I put up a set of machinery for making 500 hogsheads, for a period of six years, and I found that it cost them 22 s. 6 d. a cwt. on that estate, after deducting the rum and offal, and it extracted about one-half of the juice which they ought to have extracted according to the beetroot system. 5490. With the same machinery ?—With the ordinary process it extracted one-half of the juice which it should do with the beet-root process, comparing the amount in the cane with the amount in the beet; say that it doubled this, and even that it obtained the same rum and offal (which is out of the question, of course, because the rum is made from the waste of the sugar), it would cost 11 s. 3 d. to make it; if it got all its fuel for nothing, and the same amount of rum, the probable cost would be about 16 s. a cwt. with the beet-root machinery, if I got out of the cane the same proportion that the beet-root manufacturers get out of their beets; and that is nearly 8 s. more than the Cuba people obtain their sugar for with none but the ordinary machinery. 0.32. N3 5491. Do

94 S. B. Moody, Esq. 2 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

5941. Do you attribute this cheapness, at which the Cuba people make their sugar, to any superiority in the climate or the soil ?—Not the slightest; we have all degrees of climate in the British West Indies; their climate is no better than ours, and their soil is no better. We have soil in Barbadoes which makes beautiful sugar without any but the ordinary process, and we require much less expensive machinery to make sugar in Barbadoes; but in Demerara there is a difference; we have to drain the soil, which would put us to a large expense, requiring expensive machinery. A gentleman, on whose estate in Demerara I put up 8,000 l. of machinery, had, in the previous year, put up nearly 6,000 I. of machinery to drain the land; it was draining the land by an engine, as they do in Lincolnshire and in Holland. 5492. The soil and climate of Demerara is as fine as the soil and climate of any country in the world ?—The soil and climate of Demerara, as regards the production of sugar, is very favourable; it produces more sugar than almost any other country that I am aware of. 5493. Trinidad is equal to it, is it not?—Yes, I believe it is, but I have not been there. 5494. In Barbadoes the sugar is a very fine quality ?—Yes; there is a little less of it, but it is of very fine quality. 5495. What do you say of Barbadoes as regards labour ; there is an immense population there ; is there the same difficulty in getting labour as in other West India islands ?—No, there is not; because that large population gives a command of labour; the people have less land to cultivate their provisions on, therefore they are obliged to work for wages to purchase those provisions; and though there is an absence of attentive labour in Barbadoes, still labour is much better there than in other colonies. 5496. How near, in that respect, do you think Barbadoes comes to Cuba?— I cannot give the details of any estate, but in reference to several estates that came under my notice when I was there, I took the average expense of producing sugar at 15 s. a cwt.; it is difficult to calculate it in Barbadoes. I have a return of a whole parish, with the names of the estates, and the produce in 1837, 1838, 1839, and 1840 ; and there is a great variety of climate during those respective years; some were very dry. Here are estates that made 170 hogsheads in one year, and which made only 16 in the last year, 1840 ; and in the year when that estate made 170 hogsheads of sugar it of course made it at a reduced price ; but I take the average upon a number of estates for 10 years; and taking the average of years and the average of the estates, it is about 15 s. a cwt. delivered on the beach. From a return I have taken from the first edition of a work on the Sugar Cane, by Mr. Porter, I find that the price in 1822 was only 6 s. a cwt. 5497. Was Mr. Porter resident in Barbadoes?—It was given him by my father, who had been resident there. 5498. Sir E. Buxton.'] Have you got the items ?—I have not the items in each year. The cause of the increased expense Is, that in former years they raised most of the provisions for the negroes on the estates, and they sold the surplus quantity ; now the labourers getting higher wages prefer American supplies, and therefore the planters have not the same demand for provisions raised on the estate, which went to reduce the expenses of the estate. 5499. Was it chiefly yams or casadas that they raised ?—Principally yams; there are few casadas grown in Barbadoes. 5500. Mr. Wilson.] Did that 6 s. include the value of the slave and the depreciation in his value every year ?—The 6 s. was the cost of purchasing supplies and all the expenses of the estate for that year; those were the current expenses for the year, without any charge for depreciation of property or anything else. 5501. Sir E. Buxton.] Or interest upon the value of the estate?—No. 5502. Chairman.] As far as continuous labour goes, would it be practicable in Barbadoes to get continuous labour, and to get labourers to work night and day at the mills?—No, I should imagine not. In the first place, they cannot work very well night and day in Barbadoes, because they depend on windmills; they have no water power, and the expense of putting up steam mills would be a heavy charge upon the estates there unless several estates united. 5503. Would it not be practicable, at no very great expense, to make tanks in Barbadoes ?—No; the expense would be very great of making tanks in Barbadoes for holding a quantity of water. 5504. And ;

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

5504. And salt water could not be used ?—It would injure the boilers very much ; on board ship you work the engines at low pressure, so that the deposit is not great in the steam boiler, and by continuous and attentive labour in blowing off the boiler at the bottom, you prevent any thick deposit accumulating at the bottom ; but if we had not that continuous and attentive labour in the West Indies, we should get a crust at the bottom of the boilers, and burn them out. 5505. Mr. M. Gibson,] But even doing the best you can, salt water is injurious ?—Yes. 550b. Chairman.] Besides that, you could only get salt water close upon the sea side ?—Yes. 5507. And the estates are generally at a distance from the sea ?—Yes, generally they are; and the estates near the sea are not generally the best. There is a great fall of water in the forward rain in Barbadoes, but it. would cost a large amount of money to form tanks. The island of Barbadoes is coral, but there are a good many crevices in the coral, so that the water runs off very rapidly ; if you make a pond or a tank, unless you are very attentive to keep the bottom of that tank not porous, if it begins to leak at all, and is not stopped at once, all the water disappears. You could not retain the water with ordinary tanks; you would be obliged to have closed tanks; it is very difficult to make use of ordinary tanks in Barbadoes on account of the porousness of the soil. 5,508. Are there any other means by which you think the British planter could be enabled to compete with the foreign planter ?—If he were allowed to make contracts with labourers out of the island, and he were allowed to import immigrants under those contracts, he would have a small body of labourers under contract on his own estate, whom he could direct to different parts of the estate on an emergency, and so save perhaps his crop; and the remaining population, if they were governed by the vagrant and trespass laws of England, and various other laws of that kind, would not be able to squat to the same degree as they do ; in fact, you might carry out the system of centralizing the population which is carried out in Australia, by making the price of land high, and by making parties purchase certain quantities of land, and not allowing them to buy small portions of land, or to squat without a licence. 5509. How would you provide against private individuals selling land ?—You might put a licence or a tax on those lands; but by having a small body of permanent labourers on the estate, and by having those laws, you would be able to control the labourers who were not under contract, and they would be more willing and ready to come and work on the estate, when they found that from your having a small body of men under your own control, they could not make their own terms with you ; by means of that and protection, I think credit would be restored, and by means of that credit we should get machinery, and by the use of that machinery we could reduce the cost of making sugar in the various colonies to 15s. and 12 s.; that is still higher than the cost to the Cuba planter; but then his credit is so bad at present that he would not be able to get any machinery. 5510. I thought his credit stood high?—The credit of the Cuba planter is better now than it has been, because his crop is more profitable; you cannot come upon the lands of proprietors in those colonies, and therefore you are dependent upon his crop ; as long as you make his crop valuable, his credit will be maintained; but if his crop is not valuable, his credit will go down, for the person advancing the money has no security upon the land. 5511. Is that by Lord Brougham's Act, or by the laws of the colony?—It is by the laws of the colony ; there are two or three reasons for that. One is, that the Crown is supposed to have the first lien upon the estates ; and another is, that you cannot sell an estate or any security till the full value is borrowed upon it; therefore there are fictitious sales made which defraud the creditor, and money bears an interest of nearly 20 per cent., which would not pay for any advance except under the peculiar stimulus that the trade has had lately. 5512. How many years' protection do you think it would be necessary to have in order to encourage the British planter?—My notion upon the subject is this : We are ordered to work out a principle by the Government of this country ; the principle of economically producing sugar by free labour; we shall have to go to a great many expenses in carrying out that principle. In England we see that improvements in the vacuum pan, improvements in the spinning-jenny, and improvements in the steam engine have been carried out by very heavy expenses; 0.32. N 4 ' those

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those have been under the protection of patents. Watt was induced to go into great expenses in experiments to perfect his machinery, and on being perfected 2 March 1848. he had a protection for 14 years. That was considered to be for the benefit of the country. If we were put on the same footing, we should be willing to go to great expenses in endeavouring to improve our machinery. 5513. You think that a protection for 14 years would be required ?—It would require a protection for four or five years before we know the best plan of doing it. 5514. The protection must last long enough to ensure the party lending the money having his money paid back again, with a reasonable interest ?—It must last till the charge of these experiments is returned, otherwise you are put into a worse position than you were before. With all the expense of new machinery, upon the first crop after the machinery is put up, there is generally a great loss attending it at first; there will be some parts of the machinery omitted ; we see that to be the case in our own factories here ; but those are replaced in a very short time here; but they are not so easily replaced in the West Indies, and therefore the loss on the first crop is considerable. I have had to send out a machine by the West India packet at a very heavy expense. 5515. Mr. M. Gibson.] You began by stating that the quantity of sugar in the cane was about 16 per cent.?—Yes, it is so in some parts. 5516. And you stated that in the manufacturing of the sugar only six per cent, was obtained ?—Yes. 5517. Therefore a very considerable loss takes place in converting the cane into sugar ?—There is a loss. 5518. Do you think that that loss might be avoided if the machinery that is used in the manufacture of beet-root sugar were adopted ?—I think the loss would be certainly reduced, if the machinery used in the manufacture of beetroot sugar could be introduced and worked in the West Indies ; it has been tried to be adopted in several places, but they have not been able to work it. 5519. Supposing the cane juice were allowed to be imported into this country, and you had the advantage of machinery, and the skill and capital here, for converting the cane juice into sugar, would there be so great a loss as there is now ? —That depends upon the increased cost of freight, and also the degree of acidity that may occur on the voyage. I have never seen any mode yet (and I have heard of a good many) which would enable that juice to be transferred from the West Indies to England without its becoming acid. I have known syrup tried from Porto Rico to New York, a much shorter distance, and fail, and therefore I think there is much less chance of its being successful in the case of cane juice brought to this country ; we are not in a position to say that it can be done. 5520. Supposing the difficulty of fermentation on the passage were got over, there would be no greater loss in converting the cane juice into sugar than there is in converting the beet-root into sugar?—Yes, there would, because we lose a great deal in expressing the juice out of the cane, from inattention. It depends upon the degree to which the mill is braced and the rollers are tightened together; and I have seen cases, and in fact I have tried it myself, where there has been great loss, and I have obtained an increased result of 12 per cent. The mill is braced up, and if the person feeding the mill puts in too many canes, that chokes it up; then he is apt to loosen the mill, and there is consequently a loss of the juice out of the cane. 5521. That is from want of attention, which arises from a want of labour in the island ?—From a want of control over the labour. 5522. Not a want of quantity of labour ?—A want of quantity, causing a want of control; therefore it is practically a want of quantity of labour. 5523. .Supposing you did not manufacture this sugar in the West Indies, would not sending the sugar here effect a considerable saving of labour in the colonies, and thereby leave a considerable quantity of labour available for the employers ? —It would" effect a very small saving of labour, because we do not have above five people engaged in the manufacture on the estate; half the people, and generally more, of those engaged on the estate are employed in feeding the mill; the difficulty of obtaining labour for that purpose would not be got over. The people engaged in boiling the sugar are very few in number as compared with the whole number of people on the estate. 5524. I am induced to ask this question with regard to the cane juice being imported into this country, inasmuch as a memorial was presented to the Government

S. B Moody, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

went signed by highly respectable names ; Thomas Daniel & Co., Hibbert & Co., Reid, Irving & Co., J. W. Chapman, Joseph Marryat & Sons, Grant & Kemshead, and others; and in that memorial they say that the admission of the cane juice into this country would confer great advantages, and that it " might enable the West India planter, notwithstanding the recent alterations in the sugar duties, to compete successfully with the foreign sugar growers;" and this is dated the 5th October 1846 ?—That is before the fall in price occurred. 5525. Mr. Wilson.] But it was after the alteration of the duties?—Yes, hut a great many people were mistaken as to the fall that would result from the alteration of the duties ; for instance, Reid, Irving & Co. never expected that the fall occasioned by the alteration in the duty would be lis. or 13s.; they may have considered that that alteration would have enabled them to compete if the price had been up. 5526. Mr. M. Gibson.'] In this memorial they set forth: " 1. A very considerable saving of labour in the colonies would be effected ; 2. The loss that at present takes place by the wastage and drainage of the produce in the colonies, and during its transit home, would be avoided ; 3. An improved description of sugar, as well as an increased quantity (the process of manufacture being perfected in this country), would be imported, and the revenue thereby increased. That the preceding advantages combined might enable the West India planter, notwithstanding the recent alterations in the sugar duties, to compete successfully with the foreign sugar growers;" and the names attached to that memorial are the names of almost all the eminent houses in London. Are you of opinion, that that memorial, signed by such names, is not entitled to considerable weight ? — Undoubtedly it is entitled to considerable weight, and I think that the West Indians ought to be allowed to try that experiment and other experiments, in order to reduce the price of sugar ; it is only a problematical thing after all : so far from its being certain, a gentleman of the name of Dr. Jennings introduced a system for purifying the juice in the West Indies, for the purpose of sending it home free from impurities; a gentleman of considerable eminence, a proprietor in the West Indies, offered to send his own produce, 200 puncheons of juice, and to employ the apparatus, if Dr. Jennings would guarantee that it should not be acid when it arrived in London. From the want of that guarantee, the gentleman said that in the present state of the West Indies he was not in a position to try the experiment; and this experiment being so problematical, I should say time ought to be allowed to the West Indies to try it; but I do not think it would have any favourable result. 5527. You gave us some evidence in respect to beetroot sugar ; is it not the fact that steps have been taken by parties in France interested in colonial sugar to obtain protection against the beetroot sugar, from the apprehension that they feel of the equalization of the duties between French colonial sugar and the beetroot sugar ?—I am not aware of it. I do not see how that could be, because the reduction is in favour of the colonial grower; the protection has been removed from the beetroot sugar, therefore it is an advantage to the West India planter. 5528. Do not the colonial growers view the increased quantity of beetroot sugar with considerable apprehension, and have they not made application for protection for themselves against beetroot sugar?—I am not aware of any case of that sort, of colonial proprietors applying for protection against the beetroot sugar. I understood that they were applying for a protection against beetroot sugar, accompanied with the freedom of their own slaves, but not simply for a protection against beetroot sugar. 5529. Do not the French refiners prefer beetroot sugar to cane sugar?—I should say decidedly not; it is very weak sugar, and sells lower than Martinique or Guadaloupe refining sugar, and therefore I do not think it can be so. 5530. Has it not been very much improved in its quality?—Undoubtedly it has, but the chief improvements in the quality of the beetroot sugar were when the using of grain charcoal was adopted ; but even now they do not obtain above six per cent, out of ten per cent, that there is in the beetroot, so that they have not increased their quantity. 5531. They obtain 6 per cent, out of 10, and we obtain only 6 per cent, out of 16 ?—We and all the foreign colon's obtain about 6 per cent, out of 16. 5532. Is it not the fact that the French government have lately removed all restrictions upon the export of beetroot sugar ?—I am not aware, but I do not 0.32. O think

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think that there would be any advantage if they did, for we see that it costs considerably more than other sugar; it costs 38 francs per cwt., free of duty, therefore nobody would buy it. 5533. How do you arrive at those figures ?—From the Price Current. 5534. What security can you offer that if we were to exclude slave-grown sugar from the British market, this beetroot sugar, which has increased in quantity very considerably, might not come in largely and compete with British sugar? —It has only increased under a system of protection all over the country. 5535. In France the beetroot sugar and the cane sugar have an equal duty ? •—No, not cane sugar from Martinique. 5536. Take colonial sugar and beetroot sugar, were there not in the last year 6,000 tons of beetroot sugar more than France wanted ?—Probably there were, but still the price this year of that sugar is considerably higher than the net price in London of other sugar. 5537. Put if beetroot sugar can compete in France with good cane sugar of Martinique, what is the reason that beetroot sugar would be unable to come here and compete with sugar from our West India colonies?—I am not aware of the fact that it does compete in France with Martinique sugar, for this reason: the price of the beetroot sugar in France is much higher than the price of sugar grown by slaves in Martinique; and consequently there are some other checks which may counterbalance the great reduction in the price of Martinique sugar as compared with beetroot sugar ; and there is a great deal of beetroot sugar that is smuggled which pays no duty at all. 5538. But is it not the case that the production of beetroot sugar is increasing at the present moment, that there is no disposition shown to decrease it, and yet beetroot sugar and cane sugar are upon the same footing in the French market ? —I am not aware that they are on the same footing in the French market. 5539. What difference is there as regards the import duty; they are upon the same footing ?—There is very little beetroot of the lower quality sold ; it is mostly sold in the refined state; and on the other hand you will find a large amount of the French slave sugar sold, a low quality, refining sugar. When I last had communication with Guadaloupe with reference to central works, it was a year or two ago when the planters adopted them, they exported from Guadaloupe and Martinique refining sugar; the duty was to be equalized on the low qualities of sugar, but kept to a certain quality of sugar called bonne quatrième, which is good refiners' sugar. 5540. Can you state anything about, the number of tons of beetroot sugar that have been produced of late years?—Not in the last year ; in 1845 it was about 28,000 tons as compared with 50,000 tons in 1838 ; 'it had fallen off 22,000 tons in about six or seven years. 5541. Do you mean to say that the production of beetroot sugar on the Continent is decreasing?—From 1838 to 1845 it was; what it may have done from 1845 to 1847 I am not aware. In Belgium it doubled between 1843 and 1846 ; but the cause of that was, that in 1843 the refiners received the drawback on putting out of their refineries about 58 lbs. of sugar, whereas in 1846 they had to put out about 70 lbs.; the truth was, that under the law of 1843, in Belgium, the refiners were protected at the expense of beetroot sugar; in 1846 that protection was removed, and then the cultivation of beetroot extended very much. I believe it doubled between 1843 and 1846 in Belgium. I am not aware whether some measure of that kind may not have been passed in France also. 5542. Should you think it at all necessary to have any protecting duty as against the importation of beetroot sugar into this country ?—No protective duty at all, I should say, was necessary. 5543. You do not think the West India colonies have any occasion to fear the rivalry of beetroot sugar?—No, not when they are placed in a position to enable them to use good machinery. 5544. Is not the difficulty you now labour under the want of good machinery ? It is the want of means to work the machinery, for if there were means to work it there would be credit given to us to enable us to get it. 5545. You cannot work the machinery with your present control over labour r - No ; nor with the present amount of labour. 5546. You could not do it unless you had a contract system in force, and also vagrant laws ?—No, unless certain laws were in force to control the population not under contract, and also greater power were given to the proprietors to make contracts

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contracts to ensure continuous labour. I speak of vagrant and trespass laws as laws which might have some effect; but there are other measures that we have in England, which might perhaps be introduced with great benefit into our colonies. 5547. With regard to the cane juice that we alluded to just now: by one operation the cane juice might be converted into raw sugar, or into refined sugar? —Yes; very well into refined sugar. I do not think in the West Indies we should make it of better quality than what is called the crushed lump. 5548. Is there not a great waste in first making the sugar in the West Indies, and then making it refined sugar here ?—Yes. 5549. Would not that be saved if the cane juice were allowed to be imported and refined here ?—That depends upon the practicability of making it stand the voyage in the first place, and upon the extra freight that might be charged upon it. 5550. But would there not be a saving, inasmuch as it would not have gone through an unnecessary process in the West Indies?—It would not have gone through that process in the West Indies ; but if it becomes acid on the voyage home, you lose in one way what you gain in another. 5551. Do you consider that there is no means whatever available to relieve the West India interest, except by raising the price of sugar in this market?—No, I do not say that; but if Government granted us the measures which the West Indians now wish for, and if the Government allowed the West Indies protection for a time, while they were trying those experiments, such as bringing home cane juice, and several other things which now we cannot go to the expense of trying, I think ultimately we, with our good credit, should be able to compete with foreign colonies, with their bad credit. It would be only paying, during the interval, for the advantage of a regular supply of sugar hereafter at a moderate price, which any man of business will do; they will layout money on that which is a losing business, in the first instance, under the impression that it will bring them eventually a remunerative return. It is not making this country pay an extra price for the sugar. 5552. What amount of protection do you think would be adequate for that purpose ?—The average expense of producing sugar in the West Indian colonies ranges from 15 s. to 22s. a cwt.; we may take about 19 s. as the average; the majority are higher than that; it is only Barbadoes that can produce sugar at a lower price, but I should say that the average cost of producing sugar in the British West Indies is about 19s.; but the average cost in the foreign West Indies is about 8 s. the cwt. 5553. You say that the average cost at the present time in the British West Indies is about 19 s.; what is the present average price of West India sugar ?— The present average price of West India sugar, with costs and charges, I believe is 23s.; then you must deduct the costs and charges. 5554. You have 19s. in the West Indies, there is therefore 4s. left, according to your account, to pay costs and charges; what do you reckon the costs and charges from the West Indies here ?—They range from 6 s. to 8 s. at present. 5555. Therefore a rise in the price of sugar of 2 s. or 3 s. a cwt., according to your account, would replace the cost of production and pay all the costs and charges?—That which I have given is simply the cost; we should begetting nothing for interest of capital, and nothing to enable us to put a good year against a bad year. 5556. Do riot you include in the cost of 19 s. per cwt., the interest ?—No, that is the actual cost of producing sugar. 5557. Can you undertake to tell the Committee that, exclusive of interest on your capital, and wear and tear of machinery, the mere outlay of money for wages and salaries and supplies amounts to 19 s. a cwt. ?—I undertake to tell the Committee that in Demerara, after deducting the rum and offal, it costs 22 s. 6d. on a large estate, over a period of six years, exclusive of interest of capital; that was cost of supplies, and wages and salaries. 5558. What addition would you have to make, in order to include the interest of capital ?—For estates that have been valued at 100,000 I., you ought to allow 10 per cent, in that climate; but that is a different thing altogether from the present state of things; you cannot oll what the interest of capital upon an estate is now. 5559. a rise in the market of 2s. or 3s. a cwt. would replace the whole 0-32. 02 of

B.Moody,

Esq.

2 March 1848.

100 S B. Moody, Esq. 2 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

of such cost of production as you have mentioned, and the freight and expense of bringing the sugar here ?—I believe, taking the average of the estates in the British West Indies, 25s, or 2Gs. a cwt. would be equivalent to the cost of production of the sugar, and bringing it here. 5560. You stated that good sugars were produced at 15 s. per cwt.; upon all that class of sugars a rise in the market of 2s. or 3s. a cwt. would replace the cost of production, freight, and charges, and leave a profit ?—It might leave a profit of about 2s. per cwt.; what it will do when the 6s. are off is another question. 5561. Mr. Allies.] What proportion of the whole West Indies is that portion in which those sugars are produced ?—A very small proportion indeed ; it is only in Barbadoes ; in taking the average it ought to be taken higher than that, because the majority of the estates in the British West Indies require 20s. to 22s. 6s. per cwt. to produce the sugar; there are very few estates in Barbadoes that produce it at 15 s. per cwt. 5562. You stated that you were in St. Croix; do you know whether the machinery they have lately introduced there has answered ; I believe they have had steam-chests?—They have had Ronald's steam-chest, and I put up some vacuum machinery there ; I believe that they have both answered. A proprietor of an estate, for whom I put up a vacuum pan, told me that it made an increase of 30 per cent, in the production of his estate. 5563. Was that the case with the steam-chest?—I think not. 5564. What improvement of the quality of the sugar took place?—The quality of the sugar was not very much improved, because Santa Cruz sugar is very good, but it lessened the quantity of their molasses; it told in that way more than in improving the quality of the sugar. 5565. Sir E. Buxton.] When you say the cost of Cuba sugar is 8s. per cwt., do you include the cost of the slaves?—No; I think that that is taken in the same way as we have taken it in reference to the British West Indies ; viz. the actual expense of the estate. 5566. Can you give the items ?—There are staves, what is called lumber, and hoes, and 55 puncheons of corn meal, salt fish, rice, plantains, medicines, clothes for the negroes, carts, repairs, and freight to market; manager, major-domo's salary ; and there is no allowance for waste of capital, or for interest sunk in slaves. 5567. Are you aware what the value of a slave in Cuba is ?—I have been informed that it is about 60/. for full-grown slave. ,5568. Do you know whether the slaves are chiefly bred on the island or imported ?—When I was in St. Thomas's, which is a neighbouring colony to Porto Rico, and the principal trade of which is with Porto Rico, I was informed that they were principally imported into Porto Rico. 5569. Do you know how it is with regard to Cuba?—I cannot say ; there are some slaves which have been imported into Porto Rico from St. Croix. 5570. Have you been on the plantations in Cuba?—No, I have not; the information I have of Cuba is from Cuba planters and engineers of mine, who have been there. 5571. Then, in fact, this rate of 8s. per cwt. entirely excludes the expense of the slaves, risk of loss of life, and interest of capital invested ?—Yes. 5572. And the maintenance of the sick and inefficient ?—It includes the maintenance of the sick and inefficient. 5573- And children?—It includes that; but not interest on what you would call capital. 5574. You spoke of vagrant laws being passed, and you recommended that a tax should be imposed upon all lands ; of course it would be necessary that that tax should be upon the white man's land, as well as upon the black man's land?" —What I should propose would be a tax upon the transfer of land. 5575. Imposed, in fact, for the purpose of preventing the black getting land? —Getting land under certain quantities. 5576. Imposed for that purpose alone?—Imposed for that purpose alone. 5577. It would be one law for the black man, and another law for the white man ?—It would be one law for both, as it is in Australia ; you are not allowed to purchase land except at a certain price, 1l. an acre : the extent varies according to the lots; but it is half an acre in -us, and in the country I believe it ranges from 100 to 600 acres. In George Town, Demerara, there is the remains of an old Dutch law that no man shall sell less than half a lot of land ; the lands were

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were divided into certain portions; in the town no man, whether he is black or S. B Moody, Esq. white, can sell less than half a lot; he cannot break up his land into smaller 2 March 1848. pieces than that. 5578. In those colonies which you have been in are there many negroes who have possessed themselves of land ?—In Demerara very many, and in St. Vincent's very many ; there are not many in Barbadoes. There are two or three estates that were purchased in Demerara for the purpose of cultivation ; but there was a difficulty in working it with so many masters, each man being his own master, and ultimately they divided it into lots of land, and, I believe, with great advantage. In St. Vincent's, after emancipation, a good many negroes went and squatted up among the hills, far from the estates, on lands which had been provision grounds originally ; and the proprietors were induced to sell land in the neighbourhood of their estates, with a view to get the labour now and then of the parties occupying those lands. 5579. So that in these colonies a law of that kind restricting the purchase of land, would not affect large parts of the population ?—No, it would not. 5580. If a tax were imposed upon the smaller lots of land, do not you think that the negroes would unite and purchase a large block of land, and then divide it among them ?—They might do so, and they have done so ; but it makes a great difference whether a large body of people unite and form settlements in the neighbourhood of different estate, or whether they go by twos and threes to a distance from the estates. If they purchase a large block of land, they purchase that block in the neighbourhood of an estate. I would not prevent that, but I would prevent their going to great distances away, far from habitations and far from civilization, and I would induce them to settle near the estates. 5581. Your great object is to make the labourer more dependent upon the planter; if he had a great proportion of this large block of land, he would be quite as independent as he is now ?—He would be, to a certain extent, independent, but he would have to pay more for provisions than if he were at a distance where he could get provisions easily; that would have some effect, but not all the effect I should wish. To make him dependent upon the proprietor entirely, I should not wish to see; I think there ought to be dependence on both sides. 5582. Do not you think that if a large proportion of negroes were to take place, and the price of labour in the colonies fell, the other negroes, or many of them, would leave the plantations altogether, and buy blocks of land and settle upon them?—If the price of labour fell in consequence of the importation of labourers, they would not be able to buy land ; but I think that by that means, and by making the labour attentive and continuous, we could get much more work from the negroes and save expenses in supplies, without reducing their wages; for instance, on an estate on the River Essequibo, which I was on, belonging to a resident proprietor, we went out to see the people perform their tasks (the people on that occasion were planting canes), and on looking at the canes that they had planted we found them very deficiently planted, we could draw them up with our sticks, and the consequence was, we were obliged to have the tasks performed over again. The planter would willingly pay the same amount of wages that he now gives, for doing the work properly, because it would save him supplying of canes at a future period. It is more attentive and continuous labour that we want, rather than a reduction of wages, though we want that also. 5583. Were those negroes?—They were. 5584. What do you mean by continuous labour; you have made use of that term several times?—We will suppose that the canes have been planted; we want continuous labour to keep the weeds down ; if the ground is weeded for a certain time after the planting, and weeded thoroughly, it will not require weeding for some time hereafter, and if all the operations of planting and manufacturing follow one another consecutively and continuously, we can produce ripe cane, and better and cheaper sugar ; that is the sort of continuous labour I want instead of a man coming for one week, and then you cannot calculate whether he will come for the future, or not; and if he does not come the weeds grow up, and there is a loss sustained in weeding three or four times. 5585. Can you suggest any plan by which that continuous labour may be obtained from those negroes who are now in the colony?'—I believe it has been obtained, to a certain degree, in some colonies, by making a law, that if a man O 3 0.32. comes

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comes to work and receives wages for a day, he must continue to work for the rest of the week, and if he does not give labour continuously for a month he is fined for so doing ; but it would be difficult to do it with the labourers in our colonies; the only safe way is to send in other labourers, and eventually the necessity would be met by the present labourers working continuously ; and I think the immigration might be reduced, when they found that the planters could do without them. 5586. During the crop time, the boiling goes on for certain hours in the day in the British colonies?—Yes. 5587. Would it not be possible to have relays of labourers? —I do not think so from what I have seen; it might be done, but I think it would be done with great difficulty and expense. But there is another disadvantage in doing that in our colonies; we have a difficulty in cutting the canes during the day ; when they worked in the manufactory day and night, they got in a large quantity of canes in the day, and working at night would , throw a great deal more work upon us in the day than we could get done. 5588. Are you aware what the amount of wages is?—In British Guiana it was before the present fall, 1 s. 4 d. a day for field labour ; it ranged from that to half a dollar or 2 s. 1 d. for people employed about the buildings. 5589. Do you know what the fall is?—I saw it stated that the fall was 25 per cent. 5590. That is a fall to a shilling a day?—Yes. 5591. Guiana is the highest colony, I believe, as regards wages ?—-Trinidad is the highest. 5592. Do you know what the wages are in any of the other colonies?—In Barbadoes they were about 1 s. a day; in St. Vincent I believed they ranged from 10 d. to 1 s. 5593. What have they fallen to in Barbadoes ?—I am not aware ; in Antigua they were 1 s., they have fallen to 8 d., but only till crop time. 5594. Do you know what the wages are in Jamaica ?—I do not. 5595. For those wages how many hours a day do they work ?—I have seen an African who had been lately imported, an immigrant (and those are generally unskilful people), leave his task at 11 o'clock in the morning, having completed it and earned his day's wages. 5596. Was that the usual ease ?—The usual case is, that they leave their work about the middle of the day. 5597. Mr. Wilson.] At what time do they begin ?—It varies from five to six in the morning. 5598. Sir E. Buxton.'] Do you know to what African nation that man you spoke of belonged ?—No ; he was a young man. 5599. Have you ever heard complaints of the negroes being irregularly paid? —Some years ago they were, I believe, irregularly paid, from the difficulty of getting specie in the colony, and the objection of the Government to give what were called goods in the colon}'; there was a complete change in the system. It was well pointed out in a letter to Lord Glenelg the difficulty that would arise from the absence of specie,and during that time there was a difficult y about wages, but I believe since then, until very lately, wages have been satisfactorily paid. 5600. Do you know what the amount of immigration has been into Demerara since 1842?— I have heard, but I do not know the number of immigrants remaining in Demerara, for people have returned. A great many were brought from the East Indies who returned, and a great many have come up from Barbadoes who have returned, and therefore I do not know the actual increase of population that has taken place from immigration. 5601. Has that,immigration answered?—I believe the restrictions that have been put upon it have made it very expensive, hut that they have found that it has not answered for another reason, that not having contracts with the individuals imported, the planters are indisposed to employ them as labourers when they are first landed on account of their having, as Europeans have, the seasoning sickness; and unless the person employing them at that time has the probability of their continued service for some time after their sickness, he is unwilling to employ them. 5602. Do the people engage for a year ?—I believe they do in some cases; but not regularly, I believe. 5603. The planters can by law contract with the immigrants for a year?—They can

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 103 can by law do so, but it would not pay a planter to maintain a man for the first six months, probably in sickness, if he were merely to have his services for the next six months. 5604. Do you know what the vagrant laws in Demerara are at present ?—I do not know what they are at present; I believe, till very lately, there were no vagrant laws or trespass laws at all; I do not know what alterations have been made lately. 5605. lias there been any immigration into Demerara from other parts besides Africa?—Yes, there has been a great immigration from Barbadoes and from other parts; people have been tempted by the high rate of wages in Demerara. I have met with a great many labourers in Demerara who have come from Barbadoes and other parts; they come to Demerara and work there for some time, and then return. 5606. Do you know whether there is any squatting in British Guiana ?—I believe there is, up the river; but near the estates there cannot be much squatting, for the land requires to be drained, and therefore I believe it would be difficult to squat there. 5607. Is squatting carried on to any extent?—I believe it is not, but I am not aware of the number of squatters ; squatting is, in St. Vincent's, carried to a considerable extent. 5608. Mr. Wilson.] You appear to think that continuous labour is more necessary than a greater quantity of labour ; is that so ?—I think it is the first step ; as an engineer, I certainly think so, for I think it would save us in this point of view; it would enable us to reduce the proportion of wages without reducing the rate of wages. 5609. Have you considered what the effect in the present state of the West Indies would be if you had a large quantity of new immigrants thrown into those colonies ; first, the effect upon the possibility of preserving order in the colonies ; and, secondly, the effect upon the production, provided order could be maintained?—I think it would stimulate production very much, if order could be maintained; but I do not. think it would be the best plan of carrying out immigration, to carry in a large body of immigrants all at once; I think that would be attended with difficulties, as regards a supply of provisions. 5610. You are not friendly to immigration ?—Not to the immigration of a very large number at once; but I do not see how we could make contracts with people for a period of years without immigration ; the people in the colony would not be willing to contract with the proprietors for a series of years. They would say, "We can get as good wages whether we contract or not;" but if you engaged with people before they came to the colony, they would be willing to contract with you for a series of years. 5611. You do not think that immigration would be a desirable thing, unless it were accompanied with contracts for a series of years ?—I do not. 5612. And those contracts you said ought to be for five years?—Yes. 5613. Do you apprehend any difficulty in carrying those contracts into effect, provided the men who made the contracts, when they came to the colony, found themselves not so well off as those who were living in the colony ?—They would be equally well off as regards their comforts and their rate of wages ; they would only be obliged to give their labour to the planter, as they had contracted to do; their means would not be less than the means of those about them. 5614. 'J he benefit you expect would be that the man would not be able to change his master ?—Certainly. 3615. Are you aware that Lord Harris has endeavoured to enforce laws against squatting in the island of Trinidad ?—I am nut aware of it. 5616. Are you aware of any particular impediment which has been offered to the executive government in that island in enforcing order or laws against squatting ?—I think it would be very difficult to enforce laws against squatting, as regards the past; but if laws were made against squatting for the future, it might be checked. 5617. Why do you think that there would be a difficulty in enforcing laws against squatting as regards the past?—Because a man who has been in the habit of squatting, considers that he has a vested right to the land upon which he squats, but the man who has not laid out any labour on the land might look upon it in' a different point of view. 5618. Do you find that a man who squats upon Crown land, looks upon it as o 4 his 0.32.

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his own ?—Decidedly; and that is acknowledged by the laws in some colonies ; if any person purchases land over a squatter's head, I believe it is the case in Port Philip, that there is an allowance made for that. 5619. In the West Indies there are two classes of lands; private lands and Crown lands; with regard to the Crown lands, can you suggest any mode by which squatting or subdivision of land could be prevented ?—Nothing would prevent that. 5620. Not a duty on the transfer of land ?—That is not squatting ; squatting is taking possession of land without any right to it. 5621. Can you suggest any means by which the further subdivision of land into small parcels could be prevented ?—I think if a block of land is divided into small allotments in order to form a village, there is no great harm in it, because it centralizes the population ; but I think a tax on any person selling a small parcel of land by itself would prevent a negro buying it; it would not prevent a body of negroes buying a block of land and dividing it among themselves. 5622. Are you aware that in all the colonies in which the Government have Crown lands, they have strictly prohibited squatting, and have endeavoured to enforce that prohibition as much as they possibly could?—I am aware of that. 5623. In the island of Jamaica the lands have all passed into private hands, and therefore the Government have no control over them ; you have suggested a tax upon the transfer of land ; what is your opinion of a tax upon the value of land ?—We could not make a tax of that kind without having a taxation upon the sugar plantations in the neighbourhood, and the tax upon a sugar plantation, making 100 tons of sugar from 100 acres of land, would be perhaps about 300 I.; but it would be only 3 I. an acre, and on a negro's small allotment of a quarter of an acre it would be only 15 s., and he could earn that in a short time, so that it would have a very trifling effect unless you increased the amount of tax on the small allotments. 5624. Can you state how the revenues of the island are at present raised ?—I believe principally by duties on exports and imports. 5625. Principally on imports?—No; there are taxes on sugar exported. The House of Assembly is composed of merchants and planters ; principally of merchants; therefore they give and take in that way. 5626. There is a duty on the importation of all kinds of food ?—Yes. 5627. Do not you think the duty on the importation of food has a tendency to encourage the growth of provisions by the negroes?—I think not; if there is a high rate of wages the negro prefers the American supplies, but if there is a low rate of wages he would cultivate provisions himself. 5628. The import duty must advance the price of food ?—Yes. 5629. The higher the price of food the greater is the motive he must have to grow his own food ?—Certainly. .5630. The lower you can make the price of food the greater inducement you give him to work for wages in order to purchase that food ?—Yes; but there is a great objection to importing much food from America, because it has to be paid for in cash ; wo are not able to produce our sugar at a price to pay for it, and if, therefore, we were to take measures to increase the importation of food from America it would increase the difficulty of paying in cash. 5631. If you have by an increased importation of food an increased production of sugar, the money you get by means of that increased production must pay for that increased importation ?—At present the greater the production of sugar the greater the amount of loss. 5632. But we want to obtain a larger quantity at the same cost, and thereby to convert a losing trade into a gaining trade ?—I do not see how a larger importation of food, even if it lower the price of that food, will lessen the cost of production. 5633. But will it not tend to make the negroes work more continuously if they can purchase their food cheaper than they can grow it?—I do not see why it should be so; as it is they consume more food that they grow than food that they purchase. 5634. If food were cheaper would they be induced to purchase still more and grow still less ?—I dare say they would. 5635. Do you happen to remember the paper that was addressed to Lord Goderich, when he was in the Colonial-office, by the West India body, recommending a reduction of the duties on imported commodities, for the purpose of encouraging the negroes to purchase them, which would be an inducement to them to give their labour?—No, I have not seen it. 5636. Supposing

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5636. Supposing that all the duties in those colonies were done away with, and the revenues of the island raised by a tax on the occupation of land, and the trade of the island thereby made free, what do you think would be the effect upon the habits of the negro ?—I think the effect would be that the sugar would have to pay the whole of the tax, because it would, in fact, go from the lands on which the sugar is cultivated ; and I think the labourers being able to live upon two days' wages instead of upon three, they would work those two days instead of working the three. 5637. You think that the labourer would not. be induced to work in order to obtain luxuries, and the use of clothing, and various things that would become cheaper, and that his habits would not thereby be improved?—If all things were cheaper, he would get something more with a fewer number of days' wages. 5638. But is there nothing in the habits of the people that would operate ?— It is quite hypothetical to what degree his habits might change ; but if he could get all those luxuries for less money, he would work for a less number of days. 5639. You told us about the restrictions on immigration ; what are the restrictions at present, as far as you know them ?—'The restrictions are as regards the nature of the contracts that you are allowed to make with the immigrants; you are not allowed to make contracts with the immigrants out of the colony, or to import immigrants, unless they are perfectly free, from the coast of Africa. 5840. But you spoke of the reason why particular immigrants had not answered, as having been in consequence of the restrictions in the colony; what are those restrictions ?—The restriction is this, as I mentioned before. If an immigrant arrives in the colony of Demerara, for instance, you are allowed to make a contract with him for a year, that is a restriction which imposes on you the expense of maintaining him during the time of seasoning, without an adequate amount of labour to repay you. Sometimes he is four or five months going through the process of seasoning, and you have to maintain him during that process, and then you have only seven months' labour for him ; that is a restriction. If the planter were put in a position to make a contract for three, four or five years, the expense of maintenance would be very small, extended over that period. 5641. Is it your opinion, that the parties would be willing to make such a contract ?—I doubt whether they would when they arrived in the colony. 5642. Before they arrived in the colony, do you think they would be willing to make such a contract?—I think they would. I have heard it stated that they would. 5643. Do you know the article called concrete sugar?—No, I never saw it. 5644. The objection you stated to the cane juice being brought here, is the liability to acidity. You have not seen the article prepared called concrete sugar? —No, I have not. 5645. It is boiled a little longer, till it becomes solid ; supposing the boiling of the cane juice were continued a little longer, so that when it was poured out it became a solid mass ; if it were sent here in that state, would not that obviate the objection ?—- Decidedly not, because all the mischief is done to the juice ; if you boil it in the open process, so as to make it come into a mass, it becomes muscovado sugar. 5646. This becomes solid cane sugar?—It can only become solid cane sugar by being boiled and potted at a very high temperature. I have seen very solid sugar made in the West Indies, but I have not seen the sugar that you refer to. 5647. You have stated that there was a prohibition in the French West Indies against the exportation of refined sugar?—Yes; I have been told so by the French planters, in making inquiries about the central works which they have in Guadaloupe ; they have informed me that they are not allowed to export sugar above a certain quality. 5648. Are you not aware that there are established in Guadaloupe and Martinique large refineries of sugar, and that the great bulk of the sugar refined there is exported ?—No ; there is a company who have a great many central sets of work in Guadaloupe. I am not aware of any in Martinique, but they do not export any quantity of refined sugar. 5649. You are not aware that a large quantity of sugar in the French colonies is refined, and sent home?—No, I am not. 5650. You stated that in 1845 the production of beet-root sugar in France was 28,000 tons?—Yes, or 28,000,000 kilogrammes. 5651. And that it had fallen from 50,000 tons in 1838 ?—-'Yes. 0.32. P 5652. Do

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5652. Do you suppose that that reduction was in consequence of the deduction of the protective duty ?—Undoubtedly. 5653. You are not aware that since that period a very important improvement has been discovered in refining the beet-root sugar, by which they can produce it so much more economically, that it has already made an increase?—That improvement in making refined sugar at one process from the beet-root, was invented before this great reduction to 28,000,000 kilogrammes. 5654. Was it practised ?—Yes. 5655. Was it practised generally ?—I am not aware that it was, but it had been introduced, and with success. 5656. Are you aware that that practice has now become almost universal, and that to the economy in having one single process from the beet-root to the refined sugar, they attribute the great success that has resulted ?—I am not aware of it; it is very probable that it is so. 5657. You are not aware that the amount of produce has risen up to 52,000 tons ?—I am not aware of it; but their being able to do that, would save great expense. 5658. Are you aware that in Germany the beet-root sugar is being generally used?—I am aware that it is, under a high protection. 5659. In what neighbourhood ?—Throughout Silesia and that district. 5660. Do you know anything of the neighbourhood of Magdeburg?—I saw the prices of some sugars made at Magdeburg from beet-root, and they were upwards of twice the price of the same quality of sugar at Hamburg. 5661. Where was that ?—It was in the Liverpool Times and some other papers, in December of last year, or January of this year. 5662. You are not aware that in Magdeburg the beet-root sugars jare underselling the foreign without any protection whatever?—Certainly not. 5663. The Hamburg sugar was in bond, but the other had paid duty?—Hamburg sugar pays a very small duty, three per cent, ad valorem. 5664. You, in reply to a question of Mr. Gibson, suggested that the French beet-root sugar could not come to this market, because the price is higher in France; are you not aware that on the exportation of refined sugar in France there is a large drawback?—I have taken the net price of the sugar, after deducting the duty. I do not know the amount of drawback ; there may be some arrangement in regard to drawback, by which the refiners of sugar receive more for drawback than they have strictly a right to; but what I deduct is the duty on the sugar. 5665. The drawback is, in fact, larger than the duty ?—Then that amounts to a protection on the sugar. 5666. In Belgium are you aware that the amount of beet-root sugar is rapidly increasing?—I am aware that in 1843 the refiners were allowed an amount of drawback for less than 60 per cent, exported; between 50 and 60; under those circumstances it is increasing. 5667. Are you aware that that law has been altered within the last 18 months? —Yes ; it is the law of 1846 that I speak of. 5668. And they now make a large profit by that?—The refiners have to export 70 per cent, of the sugar to receive the drawback, under the law of 1846, having previously been allowed to receive the drawback on only about 50 per cent., or something of that kind ; and under those circumstances the amount of beetroot sugar certainly has increased in Belgium. 5669. Do you consider that beet-root sugar in Belgium is placed under more favourable circumstances now than foreign sugar ?—I am not aware of all the circumstances; I have hardly attended to that part of the case, therefore I do not know what the duty or the drawback upon foreign colonial sugar is ; but there is, I believe, a good deal of refining in bond in Belgium. 5670. Are you aware that duties are imposed on beet-root sugar in proportion to the quantity produced, that they have a scale of duty which rises in proportion to the quantity produced ?—I am not aware of the fiscal regulations ; as in all excise regulations of that kind, there are a great variety of charges, and some are escaped, and some they have to pay. 5671. You are not aware that in the present year the production of beet-root sugar in Belgium has risen in amount, though it is placed in the same position as foreign sugar in regard to the refining and the drawback allowed ?—I am not aware of that. 5672. Are

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5672. Are you aware that in Holland there are large refineries of sugar?— Yes; the one that failed lately was supported indirectly by the government. 5673. And there are others besides that?—Yes. 5674. Suppose we had protection against foreign sugar, and there was no protection against beet-root sugar grown on the Continent, how would you protect the home market against the refineries on the Continent?—If they receive, as is mentioned, a bounty, I think we ought to be protected against it. 5675. But in Belgium they receive no bounty, and in Holland they receive no bounty ?—I think that the price in Belgium of beet-root sugar is higher than muscovado sugar in England; the price of loaf sugar for consumption rose in Belgium from 100 to 115 francs per 100 kilogrammes in 1845 ; to 140 and 150 in 1847 ; the price has increased nearly 50 per cent, in those two years to the consumer. The price of muscovado beet-root sugar in Belgium is 100 to 110 francs. I have not the amount of duty in Belgium, but I find that it is very nearly the same as the coarse beet-root sugar is in France. 5676. Do you know any reason why sugar should be higher in Antwerp than it is in any other part of Europe ?—No, I do not know the trade of Antwerp. 5677. But do you know any reason why sugar in Antwerp should be dearer than in Amsterdam, or any other part?—I know no reason why sugar imported into Antwerp should be dearer than sugar imported into Amsterdam, but I do not know the duties that are charged. 5678. But irrespective of the duties ?—Irrespective of the duties, I know no reason. 5679. If in Antwerp the refiner of foreign sugar receives a certain allowance when it is re-exported, and the refiner of beet-root sugar receives the same allowance, is it not a sufficient proof that beet-root sugar is produced as cheaply as foreign sugar?—I do not know the details of the arrangements that are made ; I go by the price current. I think there must be some system of protecting the sugar which causes that difference. When I find that the price of beet-root sugar is so much higher than the price of cane sugar, I think there must be some protection given either as a bounty, or in some other way, on beet-root, to make it come out at the same price. 5680. Do you speak of the price current as charged to the Belgian consumer, or the price current having reference to the bonded price in Antwerp?—As charged to the consumer. 5681. Are you not aware that there are a variety of duties in the towns besides that?—Yes ; this is the price current of Antwerp. 5682. But Antwerp has an excise duty, and there is the octroi duty in Antwerp, as well as in other towns ?—There may be. Beet-root sugar may be able to compete with foreign sugar in Belgium ; but it is so rare a case that it does not occur anywhere else that I am aware of. 5683. Are you aware, that under the present law, refined sugar can be imported from other countries into this country, being the growth and produce of the country where it is refined ?—Yes. 5684. Are you not aware that in this year the importers of sugar from Belgium have been importing a considerable quantity of this sugar under those circumstances? —I am not aware of that. 5685. Are you aware that we have certain treaties with Holland which would compel us to admit their refined sugar at the same duties that we charge upon the refined sugars of any other country, whether we were disposed to do it or not?—I am not aware of the treaties with other countries. 5686. You are not aware how far our existing treaties would make a protective duty on sugar coming from our West Indian colonies imperative ?—No, I am not, because I do not know what sugars you would protect against. If you protect against all foreign sugars it would make no difference. 5687. You admit that there ought to be no protection against continental sugars?—I do not say that there ought to be no protection against them ; I say that there is no fear of their coming in at the continental price. 5688. Your answer to a former question was, that you thought there should be no protection against the free-labour sugar of the Continent ?—I think what I said was this ; I was asked whether there was any danger from the competition of that sugar, and I said I thought there was none, 5689. Have you considered what the effect would be in our own colonies within the next few years, provided we had the protective duty that you now 0.32. p 2 suggest?-^-

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suggest ?—I think with a protective duty and such measures as may be found advisable, in a few years we should be able to produce sugar with machinery at a price varying from 125. to 145. and 15s. per cwt. 5690. You think that there would be very soon a very large increase in the production of sugar in our colonies ?—I think the production of sugar would meet the demand of this country. 5691. Are you aware that it nearly meets it already?—I have heard to-day that it exactly meets it, 5692. Do you think that you would be improving the condition of Trinidad, or any other of those large islands, unless they produced considerably more than they produce at present ?—If they produced the same quality at a less cost, or they made sugar of a higher quality, that would benefit the consumer. They can produce sugar now at 205. or 225. 6d. per cwt.; if you put them in a position to produce it at 12 5. or 14 5. by protecting them, they might not produce a larger quantity, but they might produce it at less cost. 5693. How do you think we are to put them in a condition to produce sugar at 12s. or 15 5. a cwt.?—In this way, you may lessen the cost of production by reducing the amount of supplies. 5694. What do the supplies cost?—It varies on various estates; on some estates there is a larger amount of supplies, on another a larger amount of lumber, or their coppers may be burnt out, or they may save in coppers. 5695. Can you provide for that by Act of Parliament ?—Yes ; by Act of Parliament we may secure attentive and continuous labour, and prevent those things being destroyed. 5696. That is by having more labour?—Yes; either by having a great deal more labour, or by having a smaller amount of labour under better control. 5697. The great object you "have in view is to increase the number of labourers, and to decrease the cost by increasing your control over the labour?—Yes; partly by one, and partly by the other; but if you diminish the cost, I presume that the consumption will increase. 5698. You do not want to decrease the price ; the price is too low at present ? —The price is too low with our present cost of sugar ; but if we made a better quality of sugar, and were at less cost in producing it, we could afford to sell that better quality at the same price as we now sell the inferior quality at, which is tantamount to a reduction in the price to the consumer. 5699. But what you want is a higher price here, and a smaller cost in the colonies ?—I do not care for a higher price here, if I get a lower cost of production. 5700. A sufficient lower cost of production to make it pay?—Yes. 5701. But in order to do that you must increase your capital ? —Yes. 5702. If by increasing your capital you increase your quantity of produce, you will have a surplus in this market ?—I consider that we should not have a surplus; but we could afford to sell crushed lump at the price now given us for muscovado sugar, which would be a great reduction in price to all intents and purposes. .5703. Mr. Villiers.] I think the Committee understood you to say that the planters could not make contracts out of the colonies?—I have been informed that that is the case, that is, for periods of three, or four, or five years. 5704. Are you aware that that is confined to Africans and Hindoos ?—I believe it is confined to Africans and Hindoos; but Africans are precisely the people we want. 5705. But if the Government or the planters chose to make contracts with other people, such as Germans, Portuguese, or Irish, they might make contracts with them out of the colony ?—We are allowed to import Africans at any time in the year; but Portuguese and others we are not allowed to import at any but certain periods, and I do not think a large amount of Portuguese, or Germans, or Irish, would live in the country; my experience of my own engineers was that 50 per cent, had died. 5706. Did the Committee understand you to say, that if you made contracts with Africans, Hindoos, or any other class of persons in the colony, they would not be binding upon them ?—No; what I said was, that I did not think Africans or Hindoos in the colony would bind themselves. I think being in the colony, and being able to get a high rate of wages without any contract at all, they would see no necessity for binding themselves in order to get that high rate of wages, 5707. Can

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109

5707. Can you say that contracts have been offered to them under which they were to receive continuous work for a certain time, and that they have refused such contracts ?—From personal experience, not being a planter, I cannot say so; it is only from what I have heard in the colony. 5708. It is for the interest of those people to be assured of receiving wages for a certain time?—They fancy that they are insured that, owing to their small number. 5709. With respect to their numbers, supposing they were willing to work and willing to work continuously, do you suppose that there is actually enough labour in those colonies to produce an amount of sugar which would supply the market ? —It depends entirely upon the nature of the restrictions; were they willing to work at lower wages and for the same time that they worked during the period of slavery, probably we should be able to meet the greater portion of the demand, though we should not be able to meet all, because the reduction of duty in 1844 has very much increased the demand for sugar, and therefore with the present amount of labour, unless they worked harder than they did at the time of slavery, we should not be able to produce the quantity required. 5710. In some of those colonies there is not such a number of labourers to supply the market as you expect at a future period?—I think not. 5711. You are acquainted generally with the West India islands?—I am. 5712. They are all under different circumstances, are they not?—Yes, almost every island is under different circumstances. 5713. What do you apprehend would be the effect upon an island, take Jamaica, if Trinidad were able to obtain all the labour that the planters there would say was sufficient?—If Jamaica stood still, and did not get labour too, it would probably be in difficulties ; but then it would have had the option given to do it, and it would be its own fault. 5714. Supposing Jamaica and Trinidad, and, in fact, all the colonies, were to have as much labour as they think requisite, how could that operate upon the whole, or rather how would it operate upon each island ; would not Trinidad produce such a quantity of sugar as might depress the market of Jamaica?—No, I think those matters are generally supposed to suit themselves to supply and demand, and if they had in Jamaica more labour than was necessary to raise the sugar, and which would raise too much sugar, the supply and demand would stop that. 5715. But I believe the estates in Jamaica are very much mortgaged ?—Almost every estate in the West Indies is in the same position in that respect. 5716. The estates in Trinidad are as much encumbered ?—I believe the incumbrances on West India properties are of a peculiar nature ; they do not result from the expenditure exceeding the income, but verv frequently a person having 2,000 /. or 3,000/. agrees to purchase an estate for 10,000l. or 15,000l., and to make up the balance he encumbers the estate with part of the purchase-money. 5717. He mortgages the estate for the purchase-money?—Yes, expecting to work off the debt by a series of profits. 5718. lie is a man originally of not sufficient capital to purchase the estate?— Yes, or he is without the means of carrying on the establishment, as in erecting and working our manufactories in England. 5719. And he mortgages the estate ?—Yes. 5720. Is that the case generally throughout those islands ?—Yes. 5721. Is there any great difference in the soil of those islands?—Yes, there is. .5722. Are not the estates in Jamaica much more exhausted than the estates in Trinidad and Guiana?—Take Barbadoes and Guiana, which are the two extremes; one exhausted and the other unexhausted, but with very luxuriant vegetation and luxuriant climate ; we have in the one the difficulty of keeping down the weeds in consequence of the vegetation, and that difficulty is pretty nearly as great as the difficulty of manuring. 5723. But. the differences in the soil are sufficiently great to make the advantages of having this importation of labour that you require, very different in the different cases ?—Yes; Barbadoes, from its dense population, would not benefit to the same extent from an importation of labourers as Demerara. I think St. Vincent's would benefit to the same extent, or nearly, as Demerara. 5724. But do you expect, as the result of obtaining sufficient supply of labour, that the quantity of sugar produced would be increased ?—A larger amount, or a better quality of sugar would be produced at the same price as inferior sugar is now produced at. 0.32. p 3 5725. You

507 S. B. Moody, Esq. 2 March 1848.

110 B, B. Moody, Esq. 2 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

5725. You have stated that the supply of sugar would be sufficient to provide for this country, and to admit of some being exported ?—I have not stated that, but I think it is very likely; it would depend upon the degree of consumption here. 5726. That you think would be the result of your having a sufficient supply of labour?—Yes. 5727. You do not attach so much importance to the introduction of machinery as to the introduction of labour ?—I attach more importance to the introduction of labour, and to measures for controlling it, and I ask for a protective duty for a period of years to enable us to try the experiment necessary for reducing our cost of producing the sugar. 5728. Your remedy is a temporary protection, accompanied with a system of importing labour?—Yes, and combined with other measures for regulating that labour. 5729. Are you satisfied, from the experience which you have had, that that labour can be procured ?—I have not been on the coast of Africa, therefore I cannot tell, but I think it depends solely on the removal of restrictions; if they can get labourers to the extent of 200,000 in the slave trade, I think we should be able to get quite as many free labourers for the supply of our own colonies. 5730. Do you think that those Africans would work?—Yes, under contract, I think they would. 5731. You would bring those immigrants from different parts of Europe, or any other part of the world ?—By no means ; those taken from Europe could not, I think, live there. 5732. Have any experiments been made of Portuguese?'—Portuguese have been introduced, and in some cases they died very rapidly when they were in the fields. 5733. Are they unwilling to come?—No; but the bulk of the Portuguese that they have now in Demerara are hucksters; they work in the fields for a short time; they are very good workmen, and very keen for money; and after they have earned sufficient to become hucksters, they leave the work, and become hucksters; but if they were to work for many years in the field, they could not stand it. 5734. Has the importation of Germans answered?—I have heard of Germans being imported; but I should say that the importation of Germans has not answered. 5735. Do I understand you to say that there is an export duty in all these colonies ?—I believe in most of them. .5736. Wherever that is the case it enhances the cost of the sugar that comes to this market ?—The revenue has to be made up in one way or the other, and it depends far more on the cost of production. 5737. Has if been considered whether the duty should not be repealed, considering the low price of sugar ?—The House of Assembly is composed of merchants and planters; the merchants would object to imports being taxed, if the planters' exports were not taxed. 5738. They would expect the import duties to be increased if the export duties were repealed?—Yes. 5739. But that has been taken into consideration ?—I am not justified in saying so. I am not aware. 5740. Chairman.'] You stated, that under the Dutch law no person could purchase a smaller extent of land than half a lot ?—In the town of Demerara that is the case, 5741. What is the extent of a lot under the Dutch law?—That depends upon the position; the quantity in George Town was very small; I had two half lots, and the frontage was 300 feet by 150 feet, or something of that sort. 5742. Then you would propose that that lot should be much enlarged, as you would not allow any person to purchase a smaller extent of land than half a lot ? —I should put a tax on 100 acres, not on such a small quantity ; let them break it up among themselves afterwards if they liked. 5743. What tax do you think would be sufficient?—I do not think the tax required would be very high, because the number of people that would be required to join together in purchasing that quantity would make them backward in purchasing it, and therefore it would keep them more togother. I should say a tax of 3 I. an acre would be sufficient. 5744. For the transfer ?—For the transfer. 5745. Mr.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

111

5745. Mr. Wilson asked you a question about a land tax; do you think if there were a land tax, and the sugar plantations and coffee plantations were exempt, as in Java sugar lands are exempt from the tax, it might have a good effect?—Undoubtedly it might; but then there would be great difficulty in maintaining that law ; it would be a one-sided law; but I would make the transfer tax extend over small lots less than 100 acres; it should be at the rate of 3/. an acre, on 100 acres and under. 5746. You do not mean an annual tax?—No, a transfer tax; the other applied to an annual tax on other lands than sugar and coffee lands.

509 S. B. Moody, Esq. 3 March 1848.

Sabbati, 4° die Martii, 1848. MEMBERS PRESENT.

Lord George Bentinck. Sir Edward Buxton. Mr. Cardwell. Mr. Hope.

Lord John Manners. Mr. Matheson. Mr. Miles. Mr. Wilson.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK, IN THE CHAIR.

Andrew Colvile, Esq., called in ; and Examined. 5747. Chairman.] ARE you connected with the British West Indies ?—I am 5748. Will you state to the Committee what the nature of your connexion with the West Indies is ?—I am a West Indian proprietor. I possess two estates in Jamaica and one in Demerara, and I have been engaged as a merchant connected with the West Indies, chiefly with Jamaica, a great many years. 5749. You are very well acquainted with the condition of Jamaica?—Generally so. 5750. Can you furnish any statement of the imports from the colonies for a series of years back?—I can do so from a Parliamentary paper, to which I have referred. It was printed the 21st of May 1847, which gives the imports for a great many years. 5751. It appears from that return that Jamaica exported 1,400,000 cwt. of sugar in the years 1831 and 1832, and in 1833 and 1834 upwards of 1,200,000 cwt.; which gradually fell off to 1,100,000 in 1835, and to 1,000,000 in 1836, and 900,000 in 1837; then it rose again to 1,000,000 and upwards in 1838, and then in 1839 fell to 765,000, and to 518,000 in 1840, and 528,000 in 1841. Can you explain to the Committee how it was that the export of sugar from Jamaica fell off in those latter years ?—After emancipation, or rather upon the emancipation, the crops appear to have fallen off in some degree during the period of apprenticeship. At the expiration of the apprenticeship, in 1838, the crops fell off very largely indeed, owing to the labourers having put in no plant in the autumn of that year in which apprenticeship expired ; consequently for three years the crops were very defective. 5752. The apprenticeship expired in 1838?—Yes, and in 1839 there remained the canes that had been planted in the two previous years. There were no plant canes cut for the crop of 1839 ; at least a much less quantity was cut than usual. 5753. It appears that in 1839 a great falling off took place. In 1838 there were 1,053,181 cwt., and in 1839 only 565,078 cwt. ?—The apprenticeship expired in August 1838 ; the first consequence of that was, that people refused to plant any more canes. 5754. Should not the greater portion of the canes have been planted in the earlier part of the year?—In autumn 1838 they refused to plant the canes. During the course of taking off the following crop the labour was so defective that great injury was sustained from the want of continuous labour in taking off the crop. 5755. The Committee understand that the diminution in the export of 1839 was more from the crop being left to rot upon the ground from the want of labourers 0.32.P 4

A. Colvile, Esq. 4 March 1848.

112 A. Colvile, Esq. 4 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

labourers to take it off than from a diminution of plant ?—In a great degree from that, though the plant had been gradually diminishing during the period of apprenticeship ; they did not get so much labour from the people during the period of apprenticeship. 5756. In 1840 the crop fell off" still more ; in short, it was not half the crop of 1838, being only 518,000 cwt. This arose from the circumstance, that upon their complete emancipation the negroes ceased to plant canes in the fall of 1838?'— Yes, there having been no plant in 1838, there were no plant canes to be cut for the crop of 1840. 5757. And the same thing occurred in 1841 ?—In 1841 there were no canes to be cut called first ratoons, which would have arisen from the plant which ought to have been put in in 1838. 5758. Then things appear to have begun to mend, and you had a crop of 779,000 cwt. in 1842 ?—Yes. 5759. Did the negroes begin to do a little better then ?—They began to plant canes again in 1839, so that the crop of 1841 was better than that of 1840. The following year they planted canes again, so that the crop mended as we went on. 5760. In 1843 there appear to have been 120,000 cwt. less than in 1842?— That fluctuation arises from the difference of season. 5761. In 1844 there also appears to have been a very short crop, 529,335 cwt.; was that another bad season ?—Those fluctuations arise from the seasons. 5762. There were droughts in Jamaica in the years 1833 and 1834?—In some parts of the island, and there might have been rains in other parts of the island, so that the seasons vary and the crops must fluctuate according to the seasons. 5763. Things appear to have mended again in 1845, when you got to 742,867 cwt. ?—Yes. 5764. Can you explain how it came about that things grew better in 1845 ?— They were become more reconciled to their new position, and the work was going on better upon the whole than it had done previously. 5765. There appears to have been another considerable falling off in 1846 to 572,883 cwt. again ?—That was an unfavourable season generally over the West Indies; the total importation from the West Indies in that year was rather smaller. 5766. Being very little more than one-third of the crop of 1831 ?—No. 5767. Can you state what the crop of 1847 was ?—I can give the total importation from the West Indies in 1847, but I have not got the particular quantities from each colony. The total importation in 1847 was 3,186,293 cwt. I obtained that from a Parliamentary paper, ordered to be printed on the 16th of February. 5768. Have you any calculation, founded upon your recent experience, to show what would be the results of the cultivation if the present prices of sugar and rum should prevail ?—I have them with regard to my own estates, and if the Committee will permit me, I will, as the shortest way, and to save time, read to them a copy of a letter which I wrote to Lord Grey upon the 15th of December last, which goes into that subject. I wrote this letter in consequence of understanding that Lord Grey was attaching great importance to a pamphlet published by Dr. Jelly: "My Lord; I understand with extreme surprise that your Lordship is disposed to give credence to the opinions of Mr. Jelly, of Jamaica, contained in a pamphlet addressed to your Lordship, rather than to the solemn representations of the proprietors and merchants interested in the colonies. Mr. Jelly has referred to the case of one of my estates in illustration of his views, and as I find he is not correct in what he states respecting it, there is reason to infer that he is equally loose and incorrect in many of his other assertions. But at any rate, whatever weight may justly be allowed to his observations, these must be taken with reference to the circumstances at the time and place at which he wrote them, viz., Jamaica, 22d February 1847. In January 1847, sugar of a medium quality sold here at 53 s. per cwt., and fine strong rum at 6 s. 3 d. per gallon ; whereas at present, and for some time past, the prices are and have been 36 s. per cwt. for such sugar, the duty and all expenses being the same at both periods, and 4 s. 2d. per gallon for strong fine rum. Mr. Jelly states that the crop of my estate in 1843 was about 30 hogsheads, whereas it was 99 hogsheads 13 tierces sugar, and 45 puncheons rum in that year. His calculation of crop 1847 is not more correct. The whole crop of 1847 that was shipped has arrived, and has been sold, most of it, early in the season, before prices became so low in consequence of the large importations of slave sugar. Owing to the impossibility of procuring

SELECT COMMITTEE OX SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 113 procuring labourers, the crop could not be finished (or reaped) in due season, and there remain about 14 hogsheads of sugar and 7 puncheons of rum, which may come forward in March next. The following is the account of what has arrived, viz.:— £. 3,462 cwt. of sugar, producing 100 puncheons of rum -------

3,626 1,806

£. 2,550

5,432

There was paid for labour ----Taxes, repairs and all other expenses in Jamaica Stores sent from hence, mostly materials for casks, ------tools, &c. -

1,210

731

4,491 941

The 14 hogsheads sugar and 7 puncheons rum left over in the island, may, at the present prices, produce

277

£.

1,218

I find that on the average of the last four crops, namely, 1844 to 1847, during which period the seasons have been upon the whole favourable, the crop of this estate has been 3,239 cwt. of sugar, and 89 puncheons strong rum, and that the average annual expenditure has been 4,296 /.; there having been no extraordinary outlay for cattle, repairs or new machinery. Taking these quantities at the present prices, the account would stand thus, viz.:— 3,239 cwt. sugar would produce at 36s.

Less duty and charges

£.

21s. 6 d.

14 s. 6 d. per cwt. ------

89 puncheons strong rum

-----

The average annual expenditure

Showing a loss of -

£.

2,348 1,368 3,716 4,296 580

Now this estate is most favourably situated, and makes a good crop for its extent of establishment. It has water power for the cane mill; the land is level and cultivated with the plough ; there is plenty of pasture land in good order, and 349 head of cattle upon it, and it is situated within three or four miles of the shipping place. I have another estate in Jamaica, not on so large a scale, but which has also water power for the mill, and has been equally well managed, and the following is the result of its cultivation for crop 1847 : — 1,820 cwt. of sugar produced 58 puncheons strong rum

£. 1,419 799 415

There was paid for labour Taxes, and all other expenses in Jamaica Stores from hence, materials for casks, tools, &c. Showing a return of -

£. 1,900 1,032

£.

2,932

2,633 299

On the average of the four years, 1845 to 1847, this estate produced 1,563 cwt, of sugar, and 52 puncheons of strong rum, and, taking these at the present prices, the account would stand thus, viz. :— 1,563 cwt. of sugar at -

Less duty and charges 52 puncheons strong rum

14 s. 6 d. per cwt. ------

The average annual expenditure

1,133 799 1,932 2,755

Showing a loss of 0.32.

£.

36 s. 21 s. 6 d.

823

There

511 A. Colvile, Esq. 4 Marrh 1848.

114 A. Colvile, Esq. 4 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

There is no reason to suppose that the low price of sugar is occasioned by the pressure on the money market, or any other temporary cause; on the contrary, there is every reason to believe that the prices would become lower under the existing arrangement of the duty on sugar; and supposing the same supply to be continued from the East Indies, Mauritius and the West Indies, I find that for a series of years, viz. 1841 to 1845, before slave sugar was admitted to consumption here, it was regularly imported and sold here, for export, or to be refined in bond, at prices, in bond, fluctuating from 17 s. to '21 s. the cwt. ; I mean sugar similar in quality to what is now introduced into consumption as muscovado ; and these are about the prices now obtained for such sugar, after deducting the present duty of 20 s. per cwt. This proves that the cultivation of sugar in the slave countries can be maintained at these prices. But it is well known that the supply from the East Indies cannot be obtained at these prices any more than that the cultivation of the Mauritius and the West Indies can be maintained. The prices would then rise to a famine rate, and the supply required to make up the deficiency can only come from the slave countries, where every exertion is being made to extend their production by withdrawing labour from coffee and other cultivation to that of sugar, as well as by increased importation of slaves. If there is not moral courage enough to correct immediately the grievous mistake which was made in the Act of 1846 in respect to the sugar trade, the West India colonies must go out of cultivation, and the proprietors must be entirely ruined. The consequences to the nation in loss of revenue, and high prices of sugar to be sustained for a period of years until an increased slave trade shall replace the quantity of sugar lost, will be well deserved and severe, though this can yield no satisfaction to the victims of this most unparalleled inconsistency and oppression. The responsibility rests entirely upon Her Majesty's Ministers, for the sympathy of all reasonable men is with the colonists." I read that letter, entirely adhering to the opinions that are expressed. To show that the result does not only arise from Jamaica, I would offer to the Committee a calculation of the estate which I have in Demerara, w hich was also made up for three years. The average of the last three crops of this estate, taken from 1844 to 1846, was 207 hogsheads of sugar, delivery weight 3,071 cwt., and 109 puncheons of rum, gauging on delivery 9,919 gallons. The sugar would now sell for 36 s. per cwt., and the rum for 3 s. 2 d. per gallon. Therefore, 3,071 cwt. of sugar, at 36 s., less duty, and charges 19 s. 6 d. (the freight being less from Demerara makes the difference), would yield at 16 s. 6 d. net, 2,418l. ; and 9,919 gallons of rum at 3 s. 2d. less freight and charges yd., would yield, at 2 s. 7 d. net, 1,281 /., making 3,699 l. The average annua! expenditure for the same years was as follows ; for labour, 2,513/.; other colonial expenses, 1,479 /.; stores from this country, 640l.; making 4,632 I.; showing a loss of 933 /. 5768*. Canyon give the Committee the prices of the seven years ?—In the letter which I wrote to Lord Grey, I had reference at the time to the prices of Porto Rico sugar. Upon making a further inquiry, I find that the prices of the ordinary yellow Havannah sugar, which is equivalent to our sugar, have run at these rates :—in 1841, the average price per cwt., in bond, was 20s. 4 d.; in 1842, 17s. 8d.; in 1843, 18 s. 9 d.; in 1844, 18 s. 11d.; in 1845, 22 s. 10 d.; in 1846. 22s. 7 d. 5769. There was a hurricane and a drought in 1845, was not there, which accounted for the price of Havannah sugar going up that year?—There was first a drought, and that was followed by a hurricane, which affected the crops of that year very materially. 5770. In consequence of this fall of price in West India sugar, the West Indies themselves have fallen into such discredit that the resident planters are not able to borrow money to carry 011 their agricultural operations ; is that so ?—The discredit is so great that the greatest difficulty has been found in raising money to pay the wages and carry on the business of the estates. 5771. No merchant, or no money-lender, will lend money now upon the security of a West India estate?—No, that is the case ; and the best proof of the discredit is the proportion of bills which have been dishonoured, or to which the drawees have refused acceptance. 5772. Have you any statement of that kind?—It is consistent with my own knowledge, that, comparing the years 1846 and 1847, the dishonoured bills are in the proportion of two to one in 1847 to what they were in 1846, during the first six

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

115

six months of these years; and taking the latter half of those years, they are as five to one. 5773. That is because there is no confidence in England that the West Indian estates will ever return a net income ?—It is ; it arises from the conviction that at the present prices their cultivation must be carried on at a loss. 5774. Do you presume that if prices continue as they are, all but the best estates must go out of cultivation?—I should think immediately; unless some alteration is made which will satisfy the proprietors of the estates, and persons connected with them, that the cultivation can be carried on at a profit, a great many estates will immediately go out of cultivation ; and, supposing the same rate of prices to continue, the estates will gradually be given up as the canes now upon the ground are taken off'; they will reap what canes may remain, but not replant. 5775. How do you conceive the present amount of taxation in Jamaica is to be raised when so large a proportion of the sugar-cane estates have gone out of cultivation ?—I take it if the sugar cultivation be abandoned, there can be no revenue raised ; and one effect of a very large proportion of the estates being thrown out of cultivation would be, that the remaining estates would not be able to pay taxes sufficient to carry on the police and the expenses of the government. 5776. So that the public credit would fall as low as the private credit is now ? —The public credit at present is very low, so low that no money can be raised upon the security of the colonies. 5777. Government has advertised for loans, has not it, in various of the colonies, and have not been able to get any bids?—The two colonies of Guiana and Trinidad have authorized loans to be made in this country at six per cent. The commissioners for the Trinidad loan advertised, and they did not get a single offer, I understand. 5778. What did Guiana get?—Some time previously to that, before matters had become so bad, they raised a certain sum at five per cent., receiving 90l. to repay 100/.; that was before the extreme discredit which they have now fallen into ; but the commissioners were so satisfied they could not raise the further sum which was wanted, that they have not attempted it. 5779. Do you know what the amount of the loan advertised for in each case was?—The loan for Guiana, 100,000/.; the terms were for bonds of 100,000/., of which they received 90,000/.; that was equivalent to paying seven per cent, for the money. 5780. How much did they get at seven per cent. ?—They got 90,000/. 5781. Trinidad got nothing?—Trinidad did not succeed in getting anything. ,5782. Will the colonies have to fall back upon the mother country to make up this sum ?—Where Government have pledged themselves by chartering ships and other matters relating to emigration, the colonies have failed in providing the money that was expected from them, and consequently the Government of this country will have to provide for such engagements as they have come under. 5783. Do you apprehend, if things remain in their present position, that the present institutions of Jamaica and the other West India Islands, their civil, ecclesiastical and judicial establishments, must either be very much reduced or remain altogether unprovided for?—In the event of the cultivation failing and the impossibility of raising taxes, of course the institutions cannot be provided for at the expense of the colonies; they can only be maintained in that case from the resources of the mother country. 5784. Have you any statement of the annual colonial expenditure of Jamaica which you can communicate to the Committee?—The gross amount of the expenditure for the island of Jamaica appears to be in 1843, 242,509/.; in 1844, 281,432 /.; in 1845, 273,199 /.; and in 1846, 276,787 /. 5785. So that the expenditure appears to be growing?—It appears to be increasing; the paper before me shows, that taking the ecclesiastical expenses, they run 26,000/., 25,000/., and 28,000 /. last year. The civil expenditure has been 74,000/., 87,000/., 85,000/. and 101,000/. The military, 17,000l., 22,000/., 8,900/., and it falls down to 1,577 /. The judicature, 52,000/., 62,000/., 61,000/. and 49,000/. Under the head of government there is 67,000 /., 96,000 /., 94,000/. and 100,000/. Then the expenses of the governor and council under the Act 8 Vict. c. 16, are stated to be 6,000 /. a year for the last two years.—(The Paper was delivered in.) 3786. Is it your opinion that any relief might be afforded by reducing the expenditure very considerably in the island of Jamaica? —I am not so minutely informed * 0.32. Q. 2 upon

513 A. Colvile, Esq. 4 March 1848.

Vide Appendix.

116 A. Colvile, Esq. 4 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

upon that subject as to be able to give an opinion of what reductions could be made consistently with the efficiency of the different departments. 5787. Do you think if an example were to be set to the labourers in Jamaica of a reduction of the wages and the salaries, by beginning with the Governor, and reducing the salaries 25 or 30 per cent., it would have a very beneficial effect in the way of example ?—It might have such an effect, but I do not pretend to judge what effect such a measure might have upon the minds of the labourers in Jamaica, not having been in Jamaica myself. I do not feel competent to judge how far they might be influenced by such a reduction. I should think the labourers there, pretty much like the labourers here, would get as high wages as they could under the circumstances in which they are placed; the demand is for their labour, not a demand on their part for employment. 5788. The question rather went to this: whether, looking to the difficulties which naturally arise in reducing bodily the wages of an entire labouring population, the force of an example beginning with those above them, is not likely very much to facilitate that proceeding?—No doubt it would have that tendency, but to what extent it would produce an effect upon the minds of the labouring people in Jamaica, I cannot pretend to judge accurately. 5789. If I understand the statement you put in of the cost of labour set against the produce, nothing short of a reduction of labour to the extent of 30 if not of 50 per cent, would leave the planters now a balance in their favour from the produce ?—The wages, taking the crop of 1847, were 2,550 /. out of a total expenditure of 4,491 I. 5790. The difference between 2,550/. and 4,491/. does not admit of reduction ?—That arises from taxes, repairs and supplies. 5791. The only sum you can deal with is the 2,550 /. ?—Yes. 5792. The estate has lost this year, how much did you say ?—That estate has not lost during the year, but it would have lost, at the present prices, 580 /. 5793. Twenty percent, would be a reduction of 580/., which would not be sufficient to make a balance ?—I do not think there can be any hope of getting such a reduction of wages as would meet the loss arising from the present low prices. I do not think the cultivation can be carried on, even looking to such a reduction of wages as has been mentioned, at the present prices of sugar. We could not compete with slave sugar, situated as we are, because it is not only that the wages are high nominally in money, but what is called a day's work is only in fact a few hours' work. 5794. At the present prices you must reduce the wages 50 per cent., or one-half, to make the estate pay 775l. ?—Yes. 5795. Does it come within the limit of possibility, not to say of probability, that the wages could be reduced by one-half ?—Not unless the population becomes very much more dense than it is at present. 5796. Do you think the great reduction of 50 per cent, in the wages of Jamaica would not probably produce a servile war ?—I take it they would not fight, but they would not consent to work. 5797. They would not consent to starve, would they ?—I take it they are not reduced to that alternative; there being so much wild land, and it being so easv to squat and take possession, they would not submit to such a reduction ; and while the contest was going on as to wages the cultivation would be utterly destroyed. 5798. What, did you say the estate returned at the prices that were obtained in January?—It. returned 1,218 l. at the prices which were actually obtained : instead of which, if you take the average of the four crops, from 1844 to 1847, at the existing prices, taking the average of the expenses actually paid during those four crops, there would be a loss of 580 /. 5799. Have you assumed a fall of 10/. ?—I have assumed the existing prices. 5800. What is the difference between the existing prices and the prices at the time you mention ?—The price in January was 53 s., and in December it was 36s. for the same kind of sugar. 5801. That is a reduction of 17 l. a ton ?—It is. 5802. To meet such a fall as that you must be able to reduce wages 75 per cent. ? If it were all taken out of the wages, you would require that. 5803. And you cannot get a reduction from any other source than wages ?—The only other remedy is getting a better price; and the remedy, it appears to me, must be in a better price in a great, degree; something no doubt may be got from

the

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 117 the reduction of wages by the introduction of more people, and under arrangements that would induce them to work more steadily than the present population do. 5804. Are you prepared to suggest any remedial measure for the consideration of the Committee?—I have considered the question, and it appears to me that the effectual remedy is to abandon the Act of 1846, and to fall back upon the Act of 1845. 5805. That is the Act admitting free-labour sugar?—Yes, at a distinctive duty of 10s. 5806. Have you any other remedial measure to suggest ?—'There are several other measures that I think would tend to the improvement of the condition of the West Indies; such as directing the whole of the captured Africans to be landed in the West Indies, and to be indented with persons who have made proper arrangements for their accommodation and location, for a term of three or five years, so as to give them some local attachments and industrial habits. 5807. We find that, upon the average, there are scarcely 3,000 negroes captured in the course of a year ; do you think so small a supply as that would have any very great effect upon the West Indian colonies?—It would tend towards that; and I would combine with that an extended immigration of labourers, to be always placed under indentures for a term of years, so as to fix them in their location and give them industrial habits, so that the planter might depend, to a certain extent, upon continuous labour from a greater number of people fixed upon his estate. 5808. Do you think so small an immigration as 3,000 labourers would be felt in the colonies?—There is no reason why it should not be 30,000; the captured negroes must be disposed of some how or other, and if they were disposed of in the West Indies they would be disposed of to their own benefit, and to the benefit of the colonies. 5809. As far as actual numbers go, the captured negroes are not worth consideration for the purposes you suggest, are they ?—That depends upon the number. 5810. The number is less than 3,000?—I have a Parliamentary return showing the number of captured people. Since the year 1833, after the Emancipation Act, the captures have amounted to 62,696 people; and if all those had been placed in the West Indies, they might have made a very considerable addition to the population. 5811. That would not amount to 5,000 a year upon the average?—Since the emancipation, if all those people had been placed upon the islands, if you had added those 62,000 people, under proper industrial arrangements, that would have been a very considerable help to them. 5812. With respect to immigration, what expectation have you of being able to benefit yourselves by that means, or have you any practical information upon the point of immigration, as regards the practicability of obtaining free immigrants, to lay before the Committee ?—My information is only very general upon the subject; but I believe that, with proper arrangements, a large number of people might be obtained from Africa, upon a cost of transport that would ultimately pay the colonies, provided they were introduced under proper arrangements, so as to give them industrial habits. 5813. What are those arrangements?—I would indent them for a period of three or five years to the planters who may have prepared houses and proper accommodation lor their reception, and give them the wages of the country. 5814. Apprenticing them to the planter who imports them?—Yes. 5815. Do you conceive that sufficient guards might be erected against anything approaching to slave dealing and slave trading in the procurement of those labourers ?—I conceive that a proper arrangement certainly might be made to prevent any risk of slave dealing. 5816. By the law as it stands, slave dealing on the part of a British subject would be an act of felony ?—'Yes. 5817. And those Africans, upon their arrival in the West Indies, being as competent witnesses as whites, would be able to convict any planter or any imported of slave dealing or slave trading, if there were anything of the nature either of slave dealing or slave trading in the transaction?—No doubt of it 5818. Do you think that by the laws as they stand there would be a perfect security against anything approaching either to slave dealing or slave trading on 0.32. the Q3

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the part of a British subject?—I conceive that under the present laws, and with reasonable arrangements with regard to the embarkation of the people, any hazard of that kind might be obviated. 5819. There would be no doubt that any British subject who was guilty of slave dealing or slave trading would be liable to conviction for felony?—Yes, and to the penalties imposed by the Act. 5820. Which would be sufficient probably to deter any British subject from venturing upon anything of the kind ?—I should apprehend so. 5821. Are there any other remedial measures which you would propose ?—I would propose that the duties upon colonial rum and home-made spirits should be equalized. At present there is a distinction of 9d. per gallon; that difference is justified upon the plea that a distiller of this country is subject to various inconveniences under the excise laws ; but those inconveniences may, no doubt, be removed, and yet sufficient guards be maintained for the protection of the revenue. That being accomplished, there appears to me no reason why homemade spirits should have a protecting duty against the colonial spirits, which are exposed, from their distance, to the expense of freight, which the home-made spirits are not; and from the circumstance of the manufacture of spirits in the West Indies being in small quantities upon any one estate, the manufactory is conducted at a much higher rate of expense than it would be conducted here. 5822. Are there any excise laws in Jamaica or any other West India colony ?— No. 5823. Is not there an excise duty on rum in Jamaica?—There is a duty upon rum consumed, but no excise upon the manufacture of spirits. 5824. So that there is no interference with the manufacturer of rum in the island?—No. 5825. One of those restrictions which you think might be taken off the distiller of British spirits, I presume, is that the distiller in this country should be permitted to distil in bond, just as you are enabled to import in bond ?—Yes. 5826. And that he should be charged only upon the quantity that was brought to sale, instead of being charged, as at present, upon the quantity that leaves the still?—I mean that the duty may be taken upon the quantity of spirit that comes out of the manufactory, without the manufacturer being controlled and examined as to the different stages of his operation. 5827. You would not deny to the British distiller the right to be compensated for the duty he pays upon malt, part of his grain being subject to a malt duty? — At present the duty of 9d. is imposed, upon the plea of the distiller being controlled, and put to inconvenience and expense in his manufacture by the different checks to which he is subjected during the operation of his manufacture. He would be relieved from that if the duty were levied upon the result of his manufacture, the operation being carried on under a proper watch, the same as refining sugar in bond was done; sugar used to go in under bond to be refined, and the duty was taken upon the result. 5828. The British distiller complains that, under the excise regulations, he is obliged to distil under one set of premises, and to refine under a different set of premises, while the same furnaces and very nearly the same premises would suffice for both if it were not for the excise restrictions, which require this severance of the establishment; would you propose that the distiller should be allowed to be a refiner as well as a distiller?—I cannot pretend to give an opinion upon that subject; the 9ff. difference of duty is not put upon the plea of the distiller being prevented to compound and to refine; the duty is upon the raw spirit, and he claims the difference of Off. upon the ground I have stated. 5829. He claims that difference upon the ground that if his spirits are malt spirits, he pays the malt duty, but if they are not malt spirits, then to supply the place of the malt he must refine; but he is forbidden by the excise laws to refine under the same roof in which he distils, and consequently he is obliged to maintain double the amount of buildings, and to employ double the capital with which he could carry on his works were he permitted to refine and to distil under the same roof?—The view I take of it is, that equitably both spirits should be put upon the same duty. If the distiller in this country is exposed to certain inconveniences and expenses in conducting his trade, so is the distiller in the West Indies, and to a still greater extent. As far as the distiller of this country is concerned, I never would think of objecting to any relief that the security of the revenue would admit of being given to him. 5830. Supposing

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 119 5830. Supposing you were both put upon a virtual equality by the removal of all those restrictions from the home distiller, in what better position would you be as regards the sale of rum ?—I do not in my own mind think that the distiller is really and truly put to the additional expense of the 9 d. ; that is my opinion. 5831. Could you increase your production of rum considerably?—! think not; at present we produce as much rum as we can ; that is, those estates that produce rum; those estates which have not arrangements for distilling, ship their molasses, but I do not think that the 9 d. a gallon would induce any estate to distil sugar into rum at present; at present they make all their molasses into rum, those who have distilleries. 5832. How many gallons of rum do you import?—The quantity imported in 1846, including overproof, was 3,855,464 gallons, and 6,623,944 gallons in 1847; that must include rum from all quarters, the East Indies as well as the West Indies. 5833. That will give you about 260,000/. a year?—That is the quantity imported, but 9d. would only be obtained upon the quantity consumed; the quantity taken out for consumption during 1847 was 3,329,000. 5534. You think probably if you could sell the rum at 9 d. a gallon cheaper, you might bring the whole of your rum into consumption?—If the 9 d. duty were taken off, the whole of that would not go into the seller's pocket; it would be divided between the consumer and the seller. 5835. Is there any other measure that you would suggest?—I would suggest that sugar and molasses should be admitted into distilleries without payment of customs duty, and used either together or separately, with or without grain, as the manufacturer might please. I would also propose that sugar and molasses and syrup should be permitted to be refined in bond for home consumption, and the results charged with the same duties when taken out of bond as the products would if they had been imported from the West Indies. I would likewise propose that loans should be guaranteed to the colonies for the purpose of the drainage or improvement of lands, upon the same principle as was done to the landed interest of this country. 5836. What is the amount of loan you would expect?—That must depend upon the discretion of Government, and upon the arrangements that might be made. If reasonable loans were applied for, I think Government should be authorized to grant them upon certain proper conditions ; the sum might be limited to what might be considered reasonable. ,5837. The loans to the landed interest amounted to about a farthing in 100/. of the value of the estates ; that would not suffice for the West Indies, would it ?— We should not require a large amount of money, but it should be such a sum as would pay the expense of drainage, to be repaid upon a system of annuity, upon the same principle as the loan in this country was arranged. .5838. In this country, where the land is valued at 1,800,000,000 /. the loan was about 2,000,000 /. ; such a proportion as that would not suffice the West Indies ? —No. 5839. To what extent would you require a loan?—I would propose half a million should be granted for the purpose. 5840. Do you think that the advance of a loan of about half a million, divided among all the colonies, would set the colonies upon their legs again?—I do not think that alone would do so, nor do I suppose that every estate would require to be drained ; but, upon the whole, such assistance I think would be a great advantage, as inspiring confidence in the minds of everybody, and being a great assistance to those who took advantage of it, who took the loans subject to an annuity. 5841. Very much the larger portion of the estates in Jamaica do not admit of being improved by drainage, do they?—Many do not require drainage, from the nature of the soil, but a great many estates would be very much improved by drainage. 5842. Do you think there would be one in ten that would be improved by drainage ?—I think there might. 5843. Are there any other works for which you would suggest that this advance of Government money should be made?—No ; it does not occur to me to suggest the application of such a loan to any other purpose than that of drainage. 5844. Not to steam-engines or tramways?—Certainly not to steam-engines; I would not suggest it for steam-engines ; but it might be of importance for tram0. 32. ft 4 ways,

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ways for the conveyance of the canes to the mil], and the produce to the shipping places. 4 March 1848. 584,5. You would propose that Government should make those advances, taking the first security upon the estate ?—Yes ; repayable by way of annuity, at such an annual charge as would redeem it in a period of years. 5846. As was done in the case of the drainage loan in England, 22 1/2 years? —Yes. 5847. You think half a million advanced in that way would be a very great assistance to the colonies ?—No doubt it would ; those suggestions would all aid in the improvement of the condition of the colonies ; but my opinion is decidedly that if the Act of 1S46 is persevered in, we could not go on. The main improvement must be relieving us from the competition with slave sugar, as arranged by the Sugar Act of 1846. 5848. You would propose to prohibit slave sugar?—What I propose is, to fall back upon the Act of 1845, which admitted only free foreign sugar. 5849. You would not be satisfied with a 10 s. protection for seven years to come against slave sugar?—I should be afraid that would not produce the desired effect of effectually maintaining the cultivation of our own sugar colonies. 5850. You do not think the security of a 10 s. duty against slave-grown sugar for seven years would suffice to inspire confidence?—No doubt it would give confidence to this extent., that parties would try to maintain cultivation under such an alteration of the law ; but in my opinion, I do not think it would be found to be effectual, and that at the end of the period they would have to abandon a great deal of the cultivation, if the whole did not break down. 5851. At all events, without some such measure as this, you think the cultivation of the West Indian colonies will be in great part abandoned?—I do. 5852. What do you think will be the effect of the measures proposed by Her Majesty's Government first of all ; the advance to the colonies of Guiana and Trinidad for immigration purposes ?—They of course will not help Jamaica, or any other colonies but those to which they are applied; and in point of fact, I apprehend that that loan is intended to cover the engagement which Government is already under. 5853. In point of fact, it is already forestalled?—Yes; I believe that the Government have already incurred liabilities for charters of ships for immigration purposes, both for Trinidad and for Guiana, and that this loan will, in the first place, be applied to redeem those liabilities. 5854. Which, in consequence of the depreciation of property in those islands, those islands are not able to meet ?—Government no doubt entered into those liabilities upon the expectation that the colonies would have been able to raise money under the Loan Ordinances, which have been agreed upon, but having failed in that, the Government must, of course, make good the engagement they have come under. 5855. Guiana and Trinidad are both Crown colonies, are not they ?—Yes. 5856. Therefore the Crown has become liable under an Ordinance of the Government ?—No, not so ; the Crown sanctioned what were called Loan Ordinances, to enable the local government of the colonies to raise loans in this country, and to pledge the revenues of such colonies for the payment of interest and the redemption of those loans. 5857. The result of that is, that before the Government expenses of Guiana and Trinidad are paid, in good faith, the interest of those loans must be repaid?— No ; I think, if my memory serves me correctly, the condition of the Ordinance is that the Civil List shall be first provided for. 5858. In point of fact, if the colony were not able to pay the interest of the loan, the contractors for the loan in this country would suffer ?—Exactly so. 5859. And there would be an end of it?—If the colony broke down and could produce no revenue, of course the creditors would suffer. 5860. You apprehend that Government would not be bound to make good the deficiency ?—No, under the law Government is not bound. 5861. As regards the extension of time tor the repayment of the hurricane loans, what is that worth?—It is what they are very glad to do just now ; those parties who have raised money under those Hurricane Acts are unable, many of them, to pay ; and the Government, I believe, have been ready to give time, and to compromise the matter upon the best terms they could. 5862. Do

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5862. Do you propose that those liberated Africans, amounting to about 2,800 a year, should be conveyed to the West Indies at the expense of the colony or of 4 March 1848. this country ?—At the expense of the mother country, in my opinion. 5863. The expense of conveying them is about 6/. or 7l. a head, is not it?—I should think from that to 10l. 5864. That would be a relief to the whole of the West Indies to the extent of about 20,000l. a year ?—The benefit I expect will be from the introduction of more people; my object would be to introduce people in every way it could be done. 5865. With respect to the great theoretical improvement of the construction of central factories, as recommended by Lord Grey, what do you think, is to be done in that way?—I do not think it would be found practically to work any good effect. I cannot conceive any arrangement which would enable the canes of a great variety of estates to be all ground at the same mill, at the proper time at which they ought to be done, and the manufacture carried on of perhaps ten or a dozen estates connected with one central manufactory; I do not see how that can be carried on practically and to a good result. 5866. Any more, I presume, than there could be central manufactories in France for the expression of the grape juice?—It applies in the same way to all attempts to manufacture for a great variety of persons and of interests. There is a difficulty in getting your work done at the proper time, and there is the difficulty of separating the results, so that each man may receive that to which he is entitled. 5867. The great practical difficulty I apprehend to be this, that the cane must be ground as soon as it is cut, or it spoils?—Exactly so ; everybody's canes would be tipe about the same time, and ought to be ground and manufactured at the same time. There is another objection, that if the distances are very large, the weight of canes that have to be carried to the mill is a very important consideration. 5868. The weight of the cane required for one ton of sugar varies from 10 to 20 tons?—I believe more than that; I believe as much as 30 or 35 tons of canes. What is your opinion of the relative cost of free and slave labour ?— I have great doubts whether free labour is in any place so cheap as slave labour is; but to judge of this question, we must agree upon the position and condition of the slave and the position and condition of the free man. If slavery is administered so as to procure the greatest possible results from the labour of the people, I conceive slave labour would be cheaper than free labour under any circumstances almost, because even in the densest population you can conceive in tropical climates, a free man never would be under such a pressure of necessity to labour and earn wages as to induce him to take wages so low as the mere cost of the maintenance of the slave, and the replacement by way of annuity of his first cost. 5870. The great difference between slave labour and free labour is just the difference between a steam-engine and a wind-mill. You can rely upon the slave labour working continually and equally; but the free labour is so very capricious that it defeats all the projects and all the speculations of the manufacturer of sugar?—It is difficult to suppose that free labour should be so abundant and so much at the command of the employer in a tropical climate as to make him equally secure of the continuous labour and attention of his people at the manufactory as one can naturally conceive to be the case where the labour is under his actual control as a slave. In the present position of the West India colonies, the population is so far from being in that dense state, that a labourer, in point of fact, conducts himself as he pleases, and the employer has very little, if any, control over him at all, so that if the employer complains of his manufacture being badly done, the answer is, " If you are not satisfied I will go away." 5871. Sir E. Buxton.] Were you examined in 1830 before the Committee upon the West Indies?—Yes. 5872. You had been connected with the West Indies many years before 1830? —I had. 5873. Do you remember what account you gave of the condition of the West Indies then?—No, I do not immediately remember what I stated at that time, 3874. Do you remember generally what was the condition of the West Indies at that timer—The West Indies were in a state of extreme depression about that period in 1830 and 1831. 0.32. R 5875. There

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5875. There was no profit attached to the business at all, was there, in those parts of the West Indies about which you gave evidence?—I cannot answer a 4 March 1848. question so large as that, that there was 110 profit at that time, without reference to the accounts and to the facts. From a reference to the prices which existed in 1830 and 1831, they must have been in a state of very great depression, and many estates yielding no profit. 5876. Do you remember that at that time it was found almost impossible to obtain advances of money from England ?—It must have been under such circumstances. 5877. As it is now?—As it is now ; if the estates are being cultivated without profit, no man would lend money upon them. 5878. At that time the colonies produced more than this country consumed?— Yes. 5879. And the surplus went abroad ?—Yes. 5880. And you found at that time, as now, great difficulty in consequence of having to compete with Cuba?—At that time, if I recollect correctly, there was an alteration made in the drawback upon the export of refined sugar, and the drawback being reduced was a great hindrance to the export of the surplus produce of our colonies which had been carried on previous to that time. 5881. The drawback having acted as a bounty ?—It had acted as a bounty. 5882. Supposing the prices abroad to he equal to our own, there was a clear profit in exporting?—It was understood at the time that the bounty had been regulated upon such a calculation as to yield an advantage to the sugar-baker, upon selling for export and getting the drawback. 5883. You think that neither under a system of freedom nor under a system of slavery our colonies could compete with Cuba?—I do not think they can. 5884. In 1832 you used these words: " Our difficulties arise from having to compete with the sugar growers in Cuba and Brazil; but from the best information which I can obtain, it appears that they can cultivate sugar at much less cost than can now be done in our colonies"?—I have no doubt that that was correct under the circumstances of that time. 5885. What circumstances were there peculiar to that time ?—Whatever the circumstances were. .5886. You did not state any circumstance; you state that your great difficulty was having to compete with Cuba?—While slavery existed in the colonies there were successive periods of great prosperity and great depression, arising from fluctuations in the markets, occasioned, no doubt, by various circumstances, but that at times there were large returns from estates is an unquestionable fact. ,5887. When this country, without a bounty, produced more than we could consume, and we had to send it abroad, we found great difficulty in competing with Cuba? No doubt, when we produced more sugar than we could consume under a high duty, the surplus had to be exported, and that surplus could only obtain the price of the common market of Europe; but the whole of the importation was not strictly and accurately regulated by the price obtained for that surplus, for the prices became very low for a time, till a certain quantity was exported, and then when the market was relieved the price rose again ; that was the course. 5888. Do you remember that, under the system of slavery, the numbers decreased very much, or do you remember that they did decrease at all ?—I remember that taking certain colonies, the numbers did decrease, but that was owing in a great degree to the number being first taken when the population was not in its natural condition. The importations of people at all times had been of adults: and if those are added to the population in considerable numbers, there is not the natural proportion of the different ages, and of course periods will arise when the deaths Will exceed the births. 5889. Did not that decrease continue till the time that slavery was abolished ?—Except, perhaps, in Barbadoes, where there had been no importation of slaves for a great many years, and where the population was in its natural condition. 5890. You have stated that you think there is no fear of the revival of the slave trade, because the slave trade is felony; do you think without the revival of the slave trade we should get a large number of negroes on the coast of Africa ? I do, as far as my information goes, though I was never there ; I believe that a considerable number of people might be got who would voluntarily and

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and freely embark upon an arrangement, to go to the West Indies, meaning, some of them, to return again or remain, as circumstances might induce them. 5891. Do you think that could be obtained without buying them either of one another, or of the chiefs ?—I think so. 5892. From what part of the coast?—Various parts of the coast. There are the Kroomen and the Fishmen ; they are described as people who are in the habit of going from one part of the coast to another. 5893. Could you get a large number of those, do you suppose?—I cannot define any particular number, but I believe a considerable number might be got. 5894. You do not know what number?—No. 5895. Would you think there would be 10,000 or 1,000 in a year?—I should suppose 10,000 might be got. 5896. You do not know at all the number of that nation altogether?—My information is very general upon the subject. I can only convey to the Committee the impression upon my mind, which is that a considerable number of such free people might be obtained. 5897. Would an immigration into the West Indies of merely men, without any women, who would of course therefore go back, be a sort of immigration that would be permanently beneficial ?—While they continue to labour in the West Indies, that labour would be beneficial, and they would mix with the rest of the population, and those who settle would obtain women in the colony. 5898. Do you suppose they would not have an inclination to go back again after their service of three or five years ?—Many of them might. 5899. Has not it been one of the complaints where immigration has been obtained, that it is only a temporary alleviation, and that after two or three or four years the people go back again, and then you have your work to do over again ?—No doubt, if that is the course of events, you would require a continuous importation of people, to obtain the full advantage of it; but my own expectation would be that a considerable number of people would find themselves better off in the West Indies than they are in Africa, and would remain there. 5900. Do you think, under a system of protection, the West Indies can bear the expense of an importation of labour without coming to this country for assistance ; do you think they could pay the expense of the importation of labour if they had protection, without coming to this country for help ?—I think they might if confidence were restored, so as to induce people to carry on the estates, and to produce taxes for that purpose. 5901. Do you know any other parts of the coast of Africa, besides the Kroo coast, from which free labour might be obtained? —I have not that degree of acquaintance with the coast of Africa as to enable me to answer that question satisfactorily. 5902. Do you know what sums the colonies of Jamaica and British Guiana have paid since 1842 lor the importation of labour?—Jamaica can have paid very small sums; I am not prepared to say what Guiana has paid. 5903. It has paid a very large sum, has not it?—I am not prepared to say what it is, but information may be easily obtained. 3904. In order to pay that, have not taxes been imposed upon the importation of food of different sorts ?—The expenses have been paid out of the revenues of the colony. 5905. In order to meet that expense the duties upon imports have been increased, have not they ?—The duties upon imports are one of the items of the revenue. ,5906. Have not those been increased?—Not specifically for this purpose. 5907. They have been increased at the same time, have not they?—I have not in my memory the dates of the alteration of the duties. 5908. You remember that those duties have been increased within the last few years?—The duties have varied from time to time according to the necessity of the colonies; they have arranged their revenues according to the way that appeared to them most beneficial. 5909. Have those duties been increased within the last 10 years?—I am not prepared to say. 5910. You are not aware whether they have or not?—I am not prepared to answer the question distinctly, one way or the other. 5911. I was about to ask you whether the duties which have been placed upon articles ot large consumption in the West Indies have not proved onerous to the 0.32. R 2 labourers ?

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labourers ?—I apprehend not. I do not recollect accurately what the duties are ; but my impression is, that the import duties are not of a rate that can operate at 4 March 1848, all in the way of any oppression to the consumer. 5912. Has not the duty that has been placed upon provisions of different sorts induced people to grow provisions themselves instead of labouring for the planters ? — I am not aware of that fact, if it be a fact. 5913. Is not the price of provisions very dear in many of the West India islands?—The price of provisions fluctuates. I am not aware that they are peculiarly dear in the West Indies. 5914. Mr. Was not it ordered by the Home Government that those duties should be applied to the purposes of immigration?—Duties must always receive the sanction of the Crown before they can be imposed. 5915. Was not it specially ordered, to meet the immigration, that duties should be levied in this way ?—The adjustment of the duties, for the purpose of meeting those immigration expenses, was always arranged between the colonial authorities and the Home Government. 5916. You do not know that it was specially ordered by Lord Stanley for this purpose ?—I do not recollect that fact. I know generally, that it was a matter of arrangement between the colonial authorities and the Home Government in what way those expenses were to be met. 5917. You were asked with respect to slavery in our own colonies in 1830 and slavery in Cuba; can you tell the Committee what difference there was in the slavery of our own colonies at that time and Cuba; were not there great restrictions placed upon the slavery of out own colonies?—There had been various laws passed for some years previous to 1832, intended for the protection of the slave and for the mitigation of his condition, and that tended, no doubt, to increase the expense of maintaining them and supporting the population upon the estate. 5918. It was very far from the unlimited power which the masters had over their slaves in Cuba?—It was never, in my recollection, in our colonies, of that unlimited nature which I have understood exists in Cuba. 5919. And exists to this day ?—To this day, as far as my information goes. 5920. You consider this question entirely as a question of labour, do not you ? —No, by no means ; I look at it in this way, that while the expense of cultivation in Cuba and Brazil enables them to sell their sugar so much cheaper than we can in the condition in which our colonies are placed, I see no chance of our being able to meet them. 5921. Not even with increased labour, or with any additional advantages?— Labour must be very much cheaper indeed, and obtained more continuously, so as to be more effectual, and produce a better result. 5922. It is your opinion that if no relief is given beyond what is already given, sugar cultivation in our colonies must cease ?—If the Act of 1846 is maintained, I have no hope of the colonies being able to continue their cultivation. 5923. Have you no idea of continuing the cultivation on your estate?—Certainly not; I will not cultivate if I lose money by it; if the Act of 1846 were continued, I should carry the estates on so far till I could get the advantage of the canes which are already in the ground, but I would plant no more. 5924. Is not it a question for the Government to consider now whether they will have any cultivation or not in the West Indies?—It appears to me to be reduced to that; either that such an alteration of the present law should be made as will maintain the cultivation of the colonies, or that they must be considered as annihilated, as far as sugar cultivation is concerned ; they must make their election either to do one or the other. 5925. If they do not do something you think we shall have to look to foreign countries for our supply of sugar ?—Yes, we shall be reduced to slave countries entirely for our supply ; and if you can suppose the produce of our sugar colonies, that is to say, the West Indies and the Mauritius, to be annihilated, it would bo extinguishing upwards of 200,000 tons of sugar from the market of the world generally; under such circumstances the price would rise enormously, and the inducement to the slave countries to extend their cultivasion and import more slaves would become tenfold what it is now. 5926. It has been stated before this Committee, that if any assistance were given to the "West India colonies at present, in all probability the supply from those colonies would considerably exceed, in a few years, the demand by this country, and thereby occasion as much ruin to the planters as they are now experiencing ?

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 125 experiencing ?—I should not expect that, because if we look to the consumption of this country, by the reduced gross price from the reduction of the duties, it has been so large during last year that the importation from the West Indies and the Mauritius, both of which were large, and the supply from the East Indies, about meet the demand. It appears by a Parliamentary paper that the consumption was 286,000 tons during 1847; the importation from the West Indies about 160,000. the Mauritius 60,000, and from the East Indies 69,000, making 289,000 tons, the one about meeting the other. 5927. Supposing this were to be the case, would not it, at any rate, be the means of keeping up some sugar cultivation in our colonies?—If the prices were here sufficient to give a profit upon the cultivation, the present growth of the colonies would be maintained, or nearly so, fluctuating, of course, according to the seasons; but it appears to me that this country would get an ample supply from the West Indies, the Mauritius, and the East Indies, combined. 5928. Supposing it were to exceed the consumption ?—The prices would fall. 5929. What would be the effect of that?—People would diminish their growth. 5930. Would that not have the effect of sending the bad estates out of cultivation ?—It might have the effect of sending the bad estates out of cultivation. 5931. Whilst the good ones would be retained ?—The good ones would remain; but I apprehend people would grow sugar, as they grow or manufacture anything, in proportion to the demand; it the demand increased the price would rise, and that would induce a larger cultivation and a larger production; if the price fell, everybody would reduce their expenditure and their production till the quantity was reduced, and then prices would mount again. 5932. That would be the means of continuing the sugar cultivation in our colonies?—No doubt. 5933. Whereas now, if nothing be done, sugar cultivation must entirely cease? —It will cease, and when once it ceases it can never be revived. The supply from the East Indies might rise again, from the fact of their system of cultivation, and from their population, but from the West Indies, if the cultivation is once put out I do not think it will revive again. Nobody would restore the buildings, the mills, and boiling-houses, and the means of manufacturing, and the country would become a waste ; it would be reduced into the state which St. Domingo is in. 5934. If plenty of labour were given you, you do not despair, in future years, of being able to cultivate sugar as cheaply as any other free countries ?—Supposing we get a sufficiency of labour. The rate of wages will depend upon the density of the population, and the other regulations would prevent people going off into squatting, find maintaining themselves without labour. 5935. Have you any reason to suppose that there is anything in the West Indies themselves to prevent sugar being manufactured there as cheaply as in other places.''—No, I believe the land would continue to produce as good or better returns; if it were cultivated to a profit they would gradually improve in their mode of cultivation, and the returns probably be better than they have been per acre. 5936. Mr. Wilson.] Do the Committee understand that it is only to slavelabour sugar you have an objection ?—That is my great objection. do not fear competition with free-labour sugar?—I would fear even 5937* competition against free-labour sugar in the present state we are in, because we have not labour at all to any adequate extent. 5938. Did not you say that, under no circumstances, was it possible, in your opinion, that free-labour could compete with slave-labour ?—No, I do not think I said so. 5939. I understood you to say that, under no circumstances, did you believe free labour could compete with slave labour?—I do not think I said so; I adhere to my former answer on that subject. .5940. Are there any countries in the world that grow sugar where the labour exists in the state supposed by you in that answer?—I cannot pretend to say whether in Cuba and Brazil the utmost possible labour is obtained from the slaves, but I believe the slavery that exists in those countries is very hardly administered, and that they do their utmost to get the largest possible return of labour from the people. 5941. This 0.32. R3

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5941. This is a practical question; the Committee want to know whether under any circumstances we can place the labour in the West Indies in such a condition as to compete with the labour existing now in Cuba and Brazil ?—I do not think you can. 5942. You do not think that free labour can be placed in the West Indies, under any circumstances, so as to enable you to compete with slave labour as it exists in Cuba and Brazil ?—I cannot say. I cannot pretend to answer a question relative to the condition of a people that does not exist. We know our situation in the West Indies now, and we have by information a general knowledge of the condition of the people in Cuba and Brazil, and we have likewise that knowledge corroborated by the prices at which they can afford to sell their sugar. What might be the cost of wages and the cost of production in our colonies under some special case of a density of population, and additional labour thrown into them, I cannot pretend to say, unless you state to me the degree of density and the rate of wages. 5943. You have given the Committee a great many suggestions by which, in your opinion, the West Indies would be improved in such a way as to compete with foreign sugar-producing countries; if you do not say that in no state in which free labour can be placed can it compete with slave labour, I want to know what alterations, in your opinion, if there are any, can be made in the West Indies, to enable free labour to do so?—I have given a very clear opinion of the alterations which I conceive would, in all human probability, maintain the cultivation of the West Indies. One of those conditions is a certain protection, a falling back upon the policy of the Act of 1845. 5944. Do you believe that, under any circumstances, the British West Indies can ever cultivate sugar without a protection against the slave colonies?—I think if you assume that slavery is administered and used in Cuba in the hardest way, and in a way to get the most return from it, I should very much doubt whether any position in which you could place the West Indies would enable them to compete with such slave labour. 5945. It would not be a question of a limited number of years, but a question of a permanent protection which you would require?—Combined with the condition of Cuba : they may not be able at all times there to get this utmost quantity of labour from their slaves. 5946. Parliament cannot legislate with reference to any speculation as to the future condition of Cuba; the Committee have had placed before them two classes of opinions: some gentlemen tell them that they only want a protection for a limited time , the Committee, however, understand the effect of your evidence to be, that not a limited, but an unlimited time is required for protection?— To speak practically, I do not see the advantage of limiting the time upon such a question ; any new law relating to the sugar trade that may be passed is not a thing that never can be altered again; it will be altered and dealt with according to the circumstances that may arise. 5947. I am asking you your own opinion of the ability of the West Indies with free labour to compete with slave labour?—It is impossible to give a distinct answer, aye or no, to a question which necessarily implies that there should be half a dozen different conditions and qualifications of the premises in the first place agreed on, before a man can give a decided answer. 5948. Suppose Cuba and Brazil remain in the same condition they are now, is it your opinion that free labour can be placed in any position in our own colonies which would enable that free labour to compete successfully with the slave labour now existing in Cuba?—I am not prepared to say you might not place the free labour in the West Indies in such a position, but they are a long way from that at present. 5949. Do you think that if the suggestions you have made were all carried out they would be sufficient to place the West Indies in that position?—I think they would probably be sufficient to induce people to carry on the cultivation of the West Indies, and that that is the only practical object which can be attained under the present circumstances. 5950. I suppose the cultivation of the West Indies will only be carried on if it is made profitable?—It cannot be continued if it produces a loss. 5951. Then the cultivation of the West Indies depends upon the profitable cultivation of the estates?—No doubt. 5952. And

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 127 5952. And it depends upon the relative cost of cultivating those estates in competition with other estates with which they have to compete ?—Exactly. the Committee understand that you have no objection to compete 5953. with foreign free-labour sugar ?—None, under proper regulations. 5954. What regulations do you refer to ?—In the present state of our colonies I conceive that while the operation of giving us an adequate supply of free labour is being carried into effect, we have a just right to expect a certain protection against even the free-labour sugar of countries that have plenty of people in them. We are not in that position ; and it will take time for certain measures to be carried into effect before the West Indies can be so filled with people as to give us really efficient free labour. 5955. What will be the effect of filling the West Indies with people upon the production of the West Indies ?—It will tend to increase it, no doubt. 5956. One of the great inconveniences you labour under now is not only the scarcity of labour, but a want of control over the labourers ?—Yes. 5957. Therefore what you would anticipate from the introduction of fresh labourers would not only be that you would have the advantage of those new labourers, but that it would make the old labourers more effective ?—I think the old labourers would become more effective; that the employer would not be so entirely dependent upon the caprice and will and pleasure of the labourer as he is at present, and as that dependence is diminished he would have more influence over him, so as to get his work better done. 5958. And therefore his production would he larger?—It would, and to more profit. 5959. His production would be larger at the same cost?—No doubt. 5960. If he produced more sugar by means of the existing labourers in consequence of the competition of the new labourers, he would produce still more by the additional labourers that were imported ?—No doubt. 5961. The whole population would be made more profitable as producers?— No doubt the more labour there is imported the larger will be the result. 5962. Of course the great cause of the depression in the West Indies is the want of a sufficient price here for their sugar?—That is the great cause. 5963. Nothing would accomplish the object sought by the West Indies but the rise of that price, of course, in one way or the other ?—I do not see, in the present situation of the West Indies, that they can go on without better prices. 5964. You have had a long experience in the sugar market here; have you remarked that the consumption of sugar here depends very much upon the price, that it rises and falls with the price?—It must be affected to a certain degree by the price ; but it is affected also by many other circumstances. It is affected by the degree of employment of the people of this country, the wages they are procuring, and the price of food and other things. 5965. Have you observed that the price of sugar has a material influence upon the quantity consumed ?—It has some ; but I do not think it is the ruling cause. 5966. To what do you attribute the large consumption of the last year ?—There was a great reduction of the price for one cause, but people were enabled from their position to consume largely, and they did consume largely. 5967. Do you think that the people of this country were in a good condition during the latter half of the last year ?—I take it that they must have been, otherwise they would not have consumed so much sugar. 5968. Does not (he enormous defalcation in the excise during the latter six months of the last year speak very strongly as to the impoverished condition of the people?—I have not before me the actual deliveries of sugar during every month of last year, but I apprehend, if the people were suffering, you would find that the deliveries of sugar were not so large. 5969. No doubt the condition of the people has one important effect; but if in the present depressed state of the country generally you find a large increased consumption of sugar, you would attribute that to the low price, would not you? —That is one item in the consumption, but not the ruling item. 5970. Supposing the production of India were increased, and the price of sugar were raised to such an amount as would pay the West India producers at present, that would tend to throw the consumption back to what it was two-years ago?— I do not know that it would throw it back to what it was two years ago. The tendency of a rise of price must be to diminish the consumption. 0.32. R 4 5971. The

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5971. The tendency of a rise of price would be to diminish consumption, while you think a rise in price would tend to keep up the present supply, or perhaps to increase it ?—Without a rise in price you will not get your present supply from the West Indies. 5972. It you do get a rise of price sufficient to encourage the West Indies in the way you wish them to be encouraged, an increased quantity must be the consequence ?—I do not think what I have suggested will raise the price or promote the cultivation to such an extent as would induce an increase of cultivation. It might maintain the present cultivation. 5973. Then you could not employ all those new labourers you wish for ?—We should get more labour, and we should cultivate to more profit; but I do not know that the quantity would be very much increased. 5974. If you had a greater number of labourers and cultivated to more profit, that could only be done by a larger extent of cultivation ?—It would tend that way ; but the very thing that regulates our price, regulates the inducement to produce. If the price fell by an over-production, the temptation to produce would become less. 5975. Then production would fall off?—It would be limited by the demand for it at a certain price. 5976. Then you would not have employment for the people whom you had imported?—You are extending the results, I think, faster than would be found to be the case in practice. 5977. Either you must continue to employ those people and increase your cultivation, or if you diminish your cultivation to meet the low price, you must throw them out of employment ?—That would depend upon the number of people that had been imported. 5978. If the number is sufficient to meet your wish for an increase of your cultivation it. must be so?—The only wish I have expressed, is to maintain the present cultivation. 5979. The present estates have been maintained by the present amount of labour. I admit that you say they are not effectively maintained, but the effect of all this additional labour would be to increase your quantity, or it would do nothing ?—No doubt an additional quantity of labour ought to produce an additional result, and thereby the cultivators would be benefited ; but what we do produce now, unless we can secure a better price, cannot be maintained. 5980. Supposing the prices are to be maintained by the proposition which you make, and that you are to have an additional quantity of labour such as you require, will not the increased quantity then produced tend to diminish the price in this country ?—No doubt an increase of the quantity tends to diminish the price. 5981. You say that the importation at present is equal to the consumption?— During last year it was, because it was a very favourable season. The season of 1847 was generally a very favourable season for the production of sugar, and during 1847 the importation met the consumption. 5982. Supposing the production of sugar by a higher price, and an increased quantity of labour were to increase from the whole of our colonies to the extent only of 50,000 tons more, while the consumption was not to increase in consequence of the high price, what must be done with that extra 50,000 tons ?—The price would not increase, the price would fall. 5983. The price would fall in the face of the increased supply, but the price must rise in the first place to induce you to increase your cultivation ; suppose Parliament were to put a protective duty of 10 a. upon sugar, the price would rise ?—Yes. 5984. Then you think the cultivators would immediately have confidence and go on to increase their estates and extend their cultivation ?—It would depend upon the extent of my return whether I should choose to extend my estate or not; I should be very glad to maintain my present state of cultivation, and to maintain an addition of 10 /. or 15/. a ton to the present price. 5985. Are you aware of the quantity of free-labour sugar which at present is introduced into Europe from foreign countries ?—I am not aware of the total importation of free-labour sugar into Europe. 5986. You do not know what the production of Java is?—No, I cannot tell from memory. 5987. You are aware that it has increased very much of late years?—I am not

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 129 not sufficiently acquainted with the progress of cultivation in Java to be able to speak to it. 5988. You do not know whether it has increased or decreased?—I do not know enough to answer any questions upon it. .'',989. You said you would wish to revert back to the Bill of 1845. Under that Bill we admitted free-labour sugar and excluded slave-labour sugar ; have you turned your attention therefore to the quantity of free-labour sugar that would be produced?—I have turned my attention to the quantity that has come here, and it was not to an extent that materially oppressed the market. 5990. Do you think, from your experience of the Bill of 1845, you were entitled to expect that what did come here between the operation of the Bill of 1845 and the introduction of the Bill of 1846 was a fair criterion of what would have come in future, supposing that Bill had remained permanent ?—I do not think anybody would safely come to the conclusion that no more would come hereafter than had come during that time, but the supply that may be expected from freelabour countries depends upon a great many other circumstances ; the supply from Java depends very much upon the arrangements which the Dutch make for the produce of Java coming to Holland ; the whole produce of Java would not come here under any circumstances. 5991. Are not you aware of any circumstances which occurred in 1845 to prevent foreign sugar corning here at all; are not you aware that there was a great failure in the crop of Cuba ?—No doubt the failure of the crop of Cuba affected the price of sugar everywhere. 5992. It caused an alteration of the duties in Russia so as to encourage the exportation from this country even of crushed sugar?—Yes. 5993. Therefore the Bill of 1845 during that year never practically came into operation ?—The full effect of it was not felt. 5994. Are you aware that the Dutch government last year took means to send a large portion of their crop from Java to this country, or at all events that their ships were directed to Cowes for orders, to take advantage of the London market, or to go to Rotterdam, whichever might be best?—That does not come within my knowledge. 5955. Are you not aware that the Dutch have imported three cargoes of sugar into this country this last year, and sold them here ?—I cannot speak to the fact. • 5996. Supposing the price of free-labour sugar were higher in this country than on the Continent of Europe, do you not think it is certain that the Dutch government would prefer this market to Holland?—I cannot judge what would rule the decision of the Dutch government. 5997. What would you do, as a merchant?—As a merchant, one would send one's goods where the best price was to be had. 5998. Are not the Dutch good merchants?—Yes. 5999. If London was a better market than Rotterdam, do not you think they would send their sugar here instead of sending it to Rotterdam ?—Yes. 6000. Do you think you would be better off if you had to contend with a larger quantity of free-labour sugar than this country could consume, than in contending with free and slave-labour sugar together?—Yes; because we should keep the slave sugar out of the market. 6001. What benefit would you expect from that if you had a larger supply of free-labour sugar than would fill up the quantity displaced of slave-labour sugar ? —My experience goes to this, that things do not always turn out exactly as they would appear to promise from theory, and that there are many counteracting causes which induce people to send their produce to one place or to the other. 6002. There are accidental causes, such as the failure of the crop of Cuba; but are you aware of any reason which induces the merchant to send his commodities to any market except that which promises the best price ?—There is the security of his transactions. 6003. That enters into his calculation of the profit ?—It enters into his calculation whether he will send his goods hither or thither. 6004. Do you think there is any merchant in the world that would doubt the security of sending them to England ?—Perhaps not; but, as I said before, there are many circumstances that enter into the direction of produce to a market, which all require minute consideration before you can form a distinct opinion upon them. * S 0.32. 6005. You

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6005. You have no hesitation in telling the Committee that if the price of sugar rises, this country will be supplied abundantly with slave-labour sugar ; you do 4 March 1848. not, of course, take into your account any accident which may arise; but when I ask you about free labour in Java you will not give me a direct answer to that question, but you suggest a great many accidents which may arise to divert it elsewhere ?—I said, in regard to slave-labour countries, that I thought they would, in time, extend their cultivation, upon the supposition that slave labour is the cheapest labour that can be employed, and that they would gradually get possession of the market as soon as they obtained their full supply of slaves. 6006. From what you are told or understand, do you believe that the people of Cuba are increasing their number of slaves ?—I believe they are. 6007. By importation ?—Yes. 6008. Have you any particular means of knowing that ?—No very particular means of information. 6009. The Committee have had information that there has been scarcely any importation of slaves of late?—The slaves of Cuba have been notoriously very much increased, and the extension of their cultivation can only have been accomplished by the introduction of more labourers. 6010. Are you not aware that there has been a great transfer of labourers from the coffee cultivation to the sugar cultivation?—There is little or no doubt of that. 6011. Suppose the quantity of free-labour sugar in the world that came to this market exceeded our demand for foreign sugar, do you think we should pay a higher price for sugar because we excluded slave-labour sugar?—If the slave-labour sugar were added to that excess of quantity it would only aggravate the evil; if you suppose that a great excess of free-labour sugar is brought into this country much beyond the consumption of the country, if you add to that a large quantity of slave-labour sugar, the evil would only be aggravated. 6012. Would not you immediately export to the continent the surplus?—No doubt the surplus would have to be exported. 6013. And would not there be one common price of sugar in Europe?—Less the expense of freight. 6014. Do you think it would be beneficial to the colonies if by any law which we were to pass now we were to give protection, and that protection could not be maintained, that is, that the price could not be maintained, because we should have to export the surplus to the continent; do you think it would be to the profit of the colonies, by any system that would not be permanent, to lead to the cultivation of an additional quantity above what they have already made? I apprehend if something is not done to the colonies they die; they are extinguished. If they are protected, if it is but for five or seven, or 10 years, so that they can carry on their cultivation to some profit, so far they are benefited. My view is, that the policy of the country should be the protection of its own colonies, and its own subjects, rather than to destroy those colonies. 6015. Do you think it would be wise in Parliament to hold out the hope of protection if that protection could not be made operative?—I think it might be made operative; you could protect your own colonies by keeping out all foreign sugar. 6016. Free as well as slave sugar?—Yes. 6017. What would the effect of that be if our colonies grew more than we consumed ?—They would soon cease to grow more; they would grow up to the consumption of this country, or fall back to it. 6018. The additional capital which had been laid out in the meantime, in order to encourage this additional cultivation, would be so far lost?— Yes, if it had been Expended. 6019. You told the Committee, with respect to the loan which is proposed to he made to British Guiana and Trinidad, that, as far as you understand it, Government is only repaying the liability which they have already incurred ?—I said that Government had incurred certain liabilities, and that the loan would be applied to meet those liabilities in the first instance. 6020. You did not refer to liabilities which had been incurred for the importation of labourers in the past?—No, I referred to the liabilities that Government had come under by entering into contracts for the transport of the people. 6021. But for the future transport of the people?—For the future transport of the people. 6022. You

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6022. You believe that Government have already entered into contracts?— A. Colvile, Esq. I believe they have entered into certain contracts, in the expectation that the colonies would have been able to have raised loans under the ordinances they 4 March 1848. sanctioned for Trinidad and Guiana. 6023. Do you suppose that they are ships they have chartered now ?—Yes. 6024. Since that loan was made?—Since those ordinances were made. 6025. How long ago is that; do you mean Lord Stanley's ordinances?—I refer to ordinances since that time. They were ordinances to authorize Trinidad to raise a certain sum for meeting the expenses of immigration, and the order that was passed in Guiana for that purpose. Upon the last one, in Guiana, a certain sum has been raised upon the credit of the colony. 6026. As far as I understand it, Government have no connexion with anything that the local government of Trinidad and Guiana have done heretofore; they have done it entirely upon their own responsibility, and any loan which has been made has been made upon the credit of the revenues of the colonies?—I have already said so. The loan to Guiana was upon the credit of the colonial revenue. 6027. Then for anything that has been done heretofore the Government here cannot be liable ?—The liabilities I referred to were certain contracts for the hire of ships, which had been entered into here, for which the Government is in the first place liable. I only observed that those loans would be applied to relieve those liabilities to the extent to which they may exist. 6028. Are you aware yourself of those contracts being made?—I am aware that some have been made. 6029. With respect to refining in bond you gave some evidence ?—I suggested that that should be permitted. 6030. In what form would it be most economical to bring produce here for the purpose of being refined ; would it be practicable to bring it in a syrup state ? —I believe it would be practicable to bring it in a syrup state, and probably if that were done the fullest advantage would be obtained. My suggestion would go to this, that it should be permissive to refiners here to refine in bond, without paying the duty upon the article as it was imported, but upon the result of the manufacture. I am not at all sure that it would at first, at any rate, be acted on to any great extent; but by giving the permission no harm would be done to anybody, and some advantage may be obtained. 6031. Do you apprehend much danger or loss from its becoming acid on the road?—Not from the syrup. I believe it has been tried to bring syrup to this country, and I believe it has been found to arrive without becoming acid. 6032. Do you know the article called concrete ?—I have heard of it; I have not seen it. The syrup has arrived, I know, and has not been damaged by acidity. 6033. In 1830 you spoke about the bounty which used to be given upon refined sugar exported ; are you aware that from 1820 to 1830 the British colonies produced about 50,000 or 60,000 tons of sugar more than we consumed, and that that quantity went annually to the Continent of Europe, usually in a refined state ? —Almost all the export was in a refined state. 6034. There was a bounty given ?—That is to say, the calculation upon the drawback was practically a bounty. 6035. There was, in fact, more given back than was paid ?—A greater quantity of refined sugar was obtained than the calculation supposed. 6036. Was that advantage obtained by the planters or by the sugar refiners?— In the first instance it was directly obtained by the refiner ; but there is no doubt when the refiner found he obtained a certain advantage, that induced him to give a better price for the raw article. 6037. He would buy his sugar as low as he could get it ?—But still the advantage of the drawback encouraged the exportation of the sugar; it acted as a bounty; there can be no doubt about that. 6038. You tell the Committee that prior to the year 1834, and to the extermination of slavery, there were periods of great fluctuation in sugar ; that sometimes there were years of great prosperity, when the colonies yielded a large sum of money, and others of great depression, when there were great losses? No doubt there were great fluctuations of prosperity and depression. 6039. Did those fluctuations arise from circumstances altogether unconnected with the colonies, such as the state of trade in its various branches, and the com0.32. s 2 mercial

132

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

mercial condition of Europe?—I cannot at this distance of time pretend to give an accurate answer as to the causes.of the state of the sugar trade exactly, but 4 March 1848. there is no doubt that its fluctuations arise from various circumstances. What affected the general trade of the country affected the sugar trade. Political causes, such as Milan Decrees, and other matters, confining the produce of the West Indies to this country, all tended to produce that effect. 6040. What is your opinion as to the effect which the recent panic and crisis has had upon the present depression in the West Indies ?—It is difficult to measure the effect of it, but no doubt it must have had some effect. 6041. Has the failure of the West India Bank not produced a great amount of distress throughout the West Indies ? — It has produced great inconvenience, and will produce great loss to many people in the West Indies. 6042. Do you suppose there are a number of houses who have contracted their credit to the West Indies during the last six months in consequence of the pressure of the money market ? —The houses in London, and this country generally, have limited their credits to the West Indies; but I attribute it mainly to the fact that the price obtained for sugar which comes here is not sufficient to pay for the expenses of the cultivation, therefore they can have little hope that the proprietors of estates will be enabled to repay them. 6043. Have not merchants limited their advances in all lines of business, from the state of the money market rendering it impossible for them safely to have done otherwise ?—No doubt that must have affected the extent of credit which has been given. 6044.. You are of opinion that the failure of the West India Bank and the panic here has materially aggravated the great depression which has recently existed in the sugar market ?—They have had a certain effect, but the main cause of the loss of credit to the West Indies is the conviction that the cultivation under the present circumstances cannot be carried on to a profit. 6045. Are you aware that the state of the sugar market as to the depression of prices in England is no exception to the general state of the sugar market in Europe during the last six months? —I am not aware of that, because we find where foreign sugar comes here a certain quantity of it has been sold in this country ; we bring in the highest possible quality we can get into consumption under the present regulations of duty, and what will not so come in advantageously is exported to the continent, 6046. Are you aware that two of the largest refiners in Holland have failed?—• So I have understood. 6047. And that the largest refiner in the Rhenish Provinces has failed also?— I do not personally know anything about it; I know it by report. 6048. Are you aware that those failures have taken place in consequence of the great reduction in the price of the articles in which they have dealt?—I know nothing of the circumstances. 6049. Can you tell the Committee what fall has taken place in foreign sugar since last June ?—I do not think there has been any very material alteration in the price of foreign sugar; the price here has followed no doubt the price of all sugars to a certain extent; but the price of foreign sugar has been better maintained than the price of ours has been. 6050. Are you aware that there is a great depression in Havannah now, in consequence of the state of the sugar market in Europe?—No, I am not aware of that; their prices are lower than they were last year. 6051. Are not you of opinion that the natural effect, if there were no other causes existing, of a large consumption of foreign sugar in this market, ought to be to raise the price of foreign sugar?—No doubt. 6052. If the price has gone down in the face of a large increased consumption in this country, do you attribute that entirely to the commercial distress ?—Not entirely. I attribute the price in Havannah, for instance, to the expectations the people had as to the quantity of sugar that would be sent to Europe. 6053. The price which people will give in Cuba depends upon what they expect to get in Europe, of course; but you are not aware that the sugar trade in Cuba, in consequence of the state of things in Europe, is now exceedingly depressed r- -No ; I have no connexion with the trade of Cuba ; I am not informed upon the subject. 60,54. Are you of opinion that some portion of the recent depression in the sugar

A. Colvile, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 133 sugar market has been occasioned by the general state of the country?—To a certain extent. 6055. You think if the Sugar Bill of 1846 be persevered in, the effect will be to annihilate the production of sugar in our colonies, and thereby to give an encouragement to the production of sugar in slave-growing countries ?—I do. 6056. And you anticipate that we shall have in consequence of that a very high price ?—If you have a growth of sugar to the extent of 200,000 tons put out of cultivation, the price of sugar must generally rise enormously. 6057. And it is from that rise of price that you anticipate an increased production in the slave countries ?—That will induce the cultivators in the slave countries to extend their cultivation. 6058. Would not that rise of price, which you suggest will increase the slave cultivation, lead again to an extension of free-labour cultivation ?—No ; because if the cultivation of our own colonies is once put out, I apprehend it will never be restored again; if I give up my estate, I will not leave it, with its mill and its boilers and distilleries, ready for any one to walk into it; I would convert into money everything that was convertible ; and I do not think it would be anybody's interest to lay out many thousands of pounds in re-establishing that which I had abandoned. 6059. With the high price of sugar people would increase the cultivation in Cuba; the cultivation could not be increased without a large outlay of capital; they will require to purchase slaves, new machinery and new boilers, and to build new houses, and get new land. Would not the price that induced them to do that lead to an extended cultivation in the colonies ?—My opinion is, upon the general view of the subject, that if we extinguish the cultivation in our colonies it will never be revived ; it does not appear to me that any man would have that confidence in the policy of the legislation of this country as to expend a sufficient quantity of capital in fixed machinery in our colonies again, to revive the cultivation. 6060. Lord G. Manners.] Is it your opinion that if all, or the great part, of the various propositions you made for the amelioration of the colonial interests were conceded, after some lapse of years you would be able to produce sugar at so low a cost as to compete fairly with slave-grown sugar ?—I am not prepared to give a very decided opinion upon that subject; I should fear that our colonies, under any supposition which I can expect to approach the reality, would not be in a condition to compete against slave-labour sugar. 6061. Therefore you think that a protection, to answer the purpose, must be not temporary, but permanent ?—I do not think it should be given with the determination that it shall cease at any particular time. If it is given for a temporary period, it is then open to the Legislature to consider the question again, and their decision will be guided at that period by the whole circumstances of the case. If our colonies were secured, as far as regulations of that kind could secure them in a certain position for a period of years, I think it would so far restore confidence as to maintain the present cultivation of our colonies ; and, practically, perhaps that is as far as it is necessary to go. 6062. One of your propositions was the equalization of the rum duty?—Yes. 6063. You stated that the distiller in the West Indies was, practically, put to equal inconveniences as the distiller here?—I think in many points their situation is more disadvantageous than that of the distiller here. For instance, an estate making perhaps 100 or 150 puncheons of rum is obliged to have a distillery, and all the apparatus for carrying on the manufacture ; that is employed for three or four months, or five months in the year. Here the distiller has large premises, and he carries on his operations to whatever extent he pleases, and for as many months as he pleases. In that way there is a greater cost of fixed plant in proportion to the result in the West Indies than is the case here. The distance and freight, and the expense of casks, which the distiller here is not put to, because he gets back his casks again, are all disadvantages of the distillers in the West Indies. And there are many other things which, I think, fairly put the two distillers in such a position that it would only be reasonable that the duty should be the same upon both. 6064. You are not aware that it has been calculated that the enhanced cost, of production in England by the excise restrictions is greater than the total cos of production in the West Indies?—I have known a great many wild calculations made by distillers; but I think it was admitted by the Chancellor of the Exs 3 chequer, 0.32.

531 A. Colvile, Esq. 4 March 1848.

134 A. Colvile, Esq.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

chequer, when the Is. Gd. duty was reduced to 9d., that 9d. was much more, he thought, than the distillers of this country were entitled to. 4 March 1848. 6065. The principle upon which you claim protection for the West India interests is mainly that they have laid out a very large amount of capital on the faith of the existing laws that regulate the importation of sugar?—My opinion now is, that the West Indies have a just claim for protection, because they have invested their capital in the colonies on the faith of the regulation and laws of the mother country, and under the encouragement of the mother country, and that the mother country has from time to time so varied its policy, and we have been met with one blow after another, till now this appears to me to be the crisis of their fate; and if protection is not afforded to them in some way or other to give them a better price, I think they must break down. 6066. Is that the case upon which you ground your demand ?—That is one of the grounds upon which I put forward our claim. 6067. If it should appear that the British distillers have done the same thing, and have invested a large sum upon their distilleries under the faith of existing duties as they then stood, you would admit they would have an equal claim as you have to protection ?—All that I put forward in reference to this claim about the rum duties is, that, taking a view of the whole subject, there does not appear to me to be any justice in charging a higher duty upon the one spirit than the other. 6068. You have investigated the whole circumstances of the case, and you come to that conclusion ?—Yes, that is the conclusion I come to. 6069. You propose that the excise duty should be assessed upon the quantity of spirits manufactured, by way of removing the restriction ?—That is one of the modes in which the disadvantage the distillers complain of might be removed. 6070. Has not that been a subject of minute inquiry, communications being had between distillers and various governments upon the point, and it having been considered that it was essential that the excise officer should have access to the premises at all times?—That has been the case at different times; but I believe lately the opinion entertained by the Government officers is, that various of the regulations which have been in existence hitherto are not absolutely necessary for the protection of the revenue. 6071. If the officers were left to assess the duty upon the amount distilled, you would not be able to tell what materials were used?—That could be ascertained by learning what materials come into the premises and what go out. 6072. Would that be a sufficient check?—I think so ; in a case, for instance, of refining sugar in bond, the revenue officers made no difficulty in considering the revenue quite protected against any portion of that sugar going out of the warehouses into the refinery without payment of the duty, being all finally exported, and no part of it going into consumption. 6073. This, after all, would be but a very small boon, would not it ?—It would be a boon to that extent. 6074. It must follow upon some greater one to go before it; you would never grow sugar for the purpose of distilling rum ?—Certainly not; it is one of the items, among other things, which would all assist in obtaining the object we have in view. 6075. Mr. nope.] You mentioned that one of your modes of improving the West India colonies will be the introduction of immigrants ?—Yes. 6076. In reference to those immigrants, would your object be to increase the production in the West India colonies, or to cheapen the production ?—The great effect of it would be to cheapen the production in the first instance. I never contemplated importing so large a number of people as greatly to add to the production of the colonies, but the introduction of a certain number, who might be bound for some moderate time to the proprietor, which would give him the command of a certain proportion of labour upon his estate, and in that way he would be less dependent than he is upon the existing free population in the colonies, and he would be able to obtain the occasional assistance of labour upon better terms and to better effect. 6077. Are you to be understood to mean that that competition of labour would have the effect of making the labourers who are actually there more attentive to what they do?—I should expect it would make them more industrious and attentive to their labour. 6078. Do you imagine that from that additional attention you would derive any

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

135

any saving in the process of manufacturing sugar?—I have no doubt the manufacture would be very much better. My observation is, that the quality of the sugar from certain estates is not so good as it used to be, and it appeared to me there was great difficulty in getting it well manufactured. 6079. Do you imagine that any loss upon the manufacture of sugar arises from the want of continuous attention of the existing labourers ?—I believe very considerable loss arises from the want of the command of continuous labour when it is wanted. The canes are frequently not cut at the proper period of their ripeness, and the whole process of manufacture does not go on so rapidly and so well as it ought to do, and consequently the result is inferior quality and less quantity. 6080. Do you imagine that the effect of introducing new labourers would be, that the existing labourers would argue with themselves, that if they did not attend to their work they would lose their work?—Yes, it would stimulate them to more attention and more continuous labour. 6081. In that case your opinion is, that this additional immigration would benefit you in a great degree, by cheapening the cost of what you now produce, rather than by stimulating additional production ?—Exactly so. 6082. You stated that you anticipated a very large diminution of production, unless something was done for the colony ?—I "do. The importation of last year from the West Indies and from the Mauritius amounted to about 200,000 tons; and if things remain as they are, it is quite impossible that that can continue to be produced. 6083. Are you aware where we shall get sugar if our own colonies cease to produce sugar ?—If you suppose that the cultivation of the Mauritius and the West Indies is extinguished, and that you have to look to the additional supply of 200,000 tons of sugar, I do not know where you will get it immediately. I think in the course of time the East Indies would increase their cultivation, and would extend the export of sugar from thence to this country ; but the more immediate increase of supply, I think, would come from slave countries. They have their whole machinery and their whole establishment ready; and with the addition of a certain number of labourers, they would increase their production. 6084. Are you to be understood to say, that for some time we should have to depend upon slave countries for our supply of sugar?—To a great degree. 6085. Do you imagine then that we should give up a squadron on the coast of Africa for the purpose of stopping- our own supplies ?—If cheap sugar is to be the object—if this country were to abandon its own colonies and look to cheapness of sugar, the natural policy would lie to allow the slave trade to go on as fast as it could. 6086. Do not you imagine that we should be in an anomalous position, drawing our supplies from those slave countries, and yet keeping up a squadron to prevent the slave countries from getting slaves, and thereby producing sugar?— It appears to me that the existing policy is the most inconsistent thing that can he imagined. We profess to stop the slave trade, and do all we can to stop it, and yet we give every possible encouragement to those who we know are carrying on the slave trade. 6087. I presume in that case we must either give up using sugar or give up opposing the slave trade ?—That must be the natural policy to follow, certainly.

533 A. Colvile, Esq. 4 March 1848.

Mr. Benjamin Buck Greene, called in; and Examined. 6088. YOU are a merchant and shipowner, and a partner in the firm of H. D. Mr. B. B. Greene. and James Blyth & Greene ?—I am. 6089. Your house is consignee of several estates in the West Indies ?—It is. C090. You have personally managed estates in St. Kitts, I believe ?—I have. 6091. In what year?—From the latter part of 1829 till the spring of 1837. 6092. How many estates had you under your direction ?—At one period from 16 to 18. 6093. Did the production of those estates form one-third of the entire production of the island of St. Kitts?—From one-fourth to one-third. 6094. Since that time have you resided in London ?—I have. 6095. But you have received consignments of the estates which you previously S 4 0.32. managed ?—

136

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Mr. B. B. Greene.

managed ?—From about eight or ten of them, besides others, but from eight or ten of the very estates I superintended the management of. 4 March 1848. 6096. Can you state the cost per hundredweight at which those estates have produced sugar during the last four years, and previously ?—The average of the last tour years upon those 10 estates has been 21 s. 10d. per cwt., placed upon the beach, exclusive upon any interest upon the capital invested. 6097. What proportion of the whole island does the produce of those estates represent ?—From one-fifth to one-seventh. 6098. After adding freight, insurance, and sale charges, what would that amount to?—Twenty-nine shillings and sixpence. I may state that in 1843 and 1844 the freight and sale charges would amount to about 8s. a cwt., but in 1845 and 1846 they would not be more than 7s. 6d., because there has been a reduction of the duty from 25 s. to 14s., and also a great reduction in the price of sugar, which lessened commissions, brokerages and interest upon duty, and so forth, which enter into the charges. 6099. All those charges are a percentage?—Those charges I have mentioned are a percentage. 6100. Will you state what the different percentages are?—Merchant's commission is 21/2 per cent.; brokerage, including del credere, would be one per cent.; then there is'a difference in credit, which we give to the trade, amounting, I should apprehend, to about one-half percent, more, probably, because as we give them 70 days' credit, there will be 70 days' credit upon the diminished duty, which we now pay. 6101. What is that sugar per cwt. in London now ?—It is worth, exclusive of duty, from 25s. to 26s. 6102. Which would show a loss of how much per cwt.?—It would show a loss of from 4s. to 5 s. 6103. Do you know at what price foreign sugar has been sold in London before the Act of 1846 passed, which raised its value in the British market?—Yes ; I find from a Parliamentary return, moved for, I think, by Mr. Hawes, No. 300, that in 1842 the price of Brazil sugar averaged 18s. 3d.; in 1843, 17.s. 2d.; in 1844, 17s.; in 1845, 20s. 5d.; giving an average for the four years of 18 s. 2d. per cwt. 6104. The year 1845 was the year when the hurricane and drought took place in Cuba?—Yes. 6105. Which affected the price of foreign sugar?—Most unquestionably. 6106. In addition to which, 1845 was generally a year of drought throughout the West Indies, was not it?—I think not in the British colonies : it was felt chiefly in Cuba. 6107. Have you any statement of the price of Muscovado sugar in Cuba at this time?—Yes; my house received letters from two correspondents at Havannah by the last packet, dated 27th January 1848, annexing price currents, in which I find that sugar is quoted as selling at the following prices:—• s. d. s. d. Muscovadoes - 11 3 to 13 9 per cwt." Brown and low yellow - 13 7 to 17 2 „ Middling to good yellow - 18 4 to 19 5 „ all free on board. Fine yellow - 20 8 to 21 10 „ White „ -23- to 25 4 6108. Whose circular is that?—L. A. Gogel & Co., of Havannah ; we have similar advices from Messrs. Burnham & Co. 6109. At these prices you would lose between 9 I. and 10 l. per ton ?—Unquestionably. 6110. Not being able to put your sugar upon the beach at less than 21 s. 10d.? ■—-No. 6111. Can you state the cost of producing sugar in St. Kitts during the years of slavery?—I can; on one estate, the one ON which I resided, and personally managed during the last four years of slavery, the sugar cost, after deducting the proceeds of rum and molasses, 4s. 5d. per cwt. placed upon the beach ready for shipment. 6112. What was it during the four years of apprenticeship ?—During the four years of apprenticeship it was (is. 7 d.; during the last four years, ending 1846, it was 21 J. Id. • 6113. Have

535

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 137

6113. Have you included in each case all the charges of management?— Mr. B. B. Greene. Every charge; it does not include, in any case, a charge for interest upon capital invested. 4 March 1848.. 6114. Neither during freedom nor during slavery ?—No. 6115. Will you give the details of that account?—Yes, I have the details here, which I can put in. [The Witness delivered in the same, which are as follow:] ST.

KITTS.—STATEMENT

of the Island Expenses for CULTIVATION and PRODUCTION on Nicola Town Estate showing the Items under the following Heads:

£.

£. 1829 1830 1831 1832 1833 1834 1835 1836 1837 1838 1839 1840 1841 1842 1843 1844 1845 1846

450 1,151 1,510 1,803 2,096 2,306 2,422 2,239 1,697

371 228 257 261 300 342 256 182 214 338 212 225 245 296 411 198 333 195

ST.

£.

114

132 68 35 96 78 75 234 97 89 241 204 309 454 434 206 124

381 333 279 245 148 151 136 101 217 63 88 5 171 180 100 175 212 261

123 128 56 96 58 49 116 82 175 169 132 122 155 98 97 46 64 69

471 540 473 462 469 557 403 476 513 497 512 494 528 524 525 525 514 464

90 175 197 240 236 262 139 165 179 184 118 230 104

KITTS.—COST of Producing

SUGAR

£.

62 140 86 94 153 432 189 58 232 142 117 206 192 354 574 262 313 131

£.

90 94 93 98 98 80 81 86 85 88 70 67 83

1,612 1,463 1,376 1,324 1,261 1,697 1,531 1,257 1,910 2,080 2,633 3,009 3,546 4,036 4,651 4,180 4,127 3,045

400 400 400 400 500 900 1,400 800 800 816 1,626 1,407 887 803 836 891 750 632

2,012 1,863 1,776 1,724 1,761 2,597 2,931 2,057 2,710 2,896 4,259 4,416 4,433 4,839 5,487 5,071 4,877 3,677

_ _ 16 -

on Nicola Town Estate.

YEAR.

1829 1830 1831 1832 1833

1834 1835 1836 1837 1838

1839 1840 1841 1842 1843 1844 1845 J

0.32.

1846

£. 1,612 1,463 1,376 1,324 1,201 1,097

£. 2,012 1,863 1,776 1,724 1,761 2,597

£. 657 78.3 * 680 855 1,1.36 1,230

£. 107 75 50 43 13 21

764 858 730 889 1,149 1,251

£. 1,253 1,005 1,046 826 612 646

Tons.

400 400 400 400 500 900

186 198 145 185 197 210

£. 6 5 7 4 3 3

s. 14 2 8 3 -

4 18

1,400 800 800 816

2,931 2,057 2,710 2,896

1,009 1,008 1,093 912

52 70 158 188

1,061 1,078 1,251 1,100

1,072 979 1,459 1,796

210 210 211 181

5 2 4 13 6 17 9 13

6 11

450

1,5.31 1,257 1,910 1,630

1,151 1,510 1,803 2,096

1,482 1,499 1,743 1,940

1,626 1,407 887 803

4,259 4,416 4,433 4,839

806 1,338 810 925

292 112 50 128

1,098 1,450 860 1,053

3,161 2,966 3,573 3,786

175 177 206 240

18 16 15 17 7 15 15

16 19

2,30(1 2,421 2,239 1,697

2,345 1,759 1,888 1,348

836 891 750 632

5,487 5,071 4,877 3,677

793 574 609 850

178 280 400 330

971 854 1,009 1,180

4,516 4,217 3,868 2,497

199 194 153 155

22 15 21 15 25 7 16 2

21 11

£.

Nil. ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto

£.

£. s. 334 333 331 332 331 331

6116. In

138

Mr. B. B. Greene. 4 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

6116. In one column you have labour, for which there is no charge till the conclusion of the period of apprenticeship; then you have plantation expenses, and other plantation expenses ; what do you mean by plantation expenses ? —The other plantation expenses are shown by the second paper which I have put in; they are divided into lumber; comprising staves, boards, shingles, puncheons, &c. Another column is for wages to white ploughmen, engineers, wheelwrights, &c.; another, working animals ; another for provisions and fodder; another for taxes ; another, salaries ; another, miscellanies, comprising paint, coals, building-lime, contracts for work, &c. Then I have a column for supplies from England, which, since the establishment of steam-engines, includes coals, oats for horses, ironmongery, hoops and other necessary articles. 6117. For the years 1829, 1830, 1831, 1832, 1833, and 1834, the expenses are 2,012/., 1,863/., 1,776/., 1,724l., 1,761l. and 2,597/., and for the four last years those expenses have risen to 5,487/., 5,071l., 4,877l., and 3,677/.; how came those expenses to be so reduced in the year 1846 under 1845?—Partly in consequence of the reduction in the cultivation, and partly from that cultivation being carried on by implemental labour. We have altered the whole system of cultivation in St. Kitts, and a great deal of the work is now performed by implements which used to be done by manual labour, such as holing and weeding.

6118. I observe that the produce, though not equal to what it was during the apprenticeship, has not, upon the whole, very much diminished ?—In 1843 and 1844 we made about the same quantity; but I ought to mention that in 1841 another estate was added to that property. 6119. Which increased the produce?—It should have increased the produce, and in that year it did so ; but the united properties should make 260 tons, to be equal to the years of slavery. 6120. Have you applied machinery and all the other improvements with a view to lessen the cost of production ?—Yes, to a considerable extent. 6121. When did you erect a steam-engine?—In 1834 I imported two steamengines, and between that time and 1837 seven more, which were erected under my own superintendence. 6122. Did you introduce English horses?—I also introduced English horses and English ploughmen. 6123.

How did English ploughmen answer ?—Those ploughmen answered very

well. 6124. In 1833 there was but one steam-engine in the island ?—There was but one steam-engine in the island, now there are 23.

6125. Are horse-hoes much used now ?—Yes; the planters generally have improved the system of cultivation, and are using extensively horse-hoes and other implements, which are either imported or made on the spot. 6126. The island is a very small island, is not it?—A very small island. 6127. Do you know the production of sugar upon it ?—It varies from 3,500 to 6,500 tons.

6128. And to work that there are 23 engines ?—There are other estates besides those 23 that have engines; some estates have watermills, others windmills and cattle-mills. 6129. Do you think that the planters generally have made great efforts to reduce the cost of cultivation ?—I do. 6130. The island engaged a civil engineer at a salary of 500/. a year, did not it?—.Yes, for three years; with the purpose of promoting any improvements in machinery that he might suggest. 6131. To what do you principally attribute the increased cost of production?-— To the want of cheap and continuous labour.

6132. Up to what period were those estates profitable: I have not returns from all the estates; they do not all belong to ourselves; but I can give the returns from five, two of which belong to my father, one to a correspondent, and two

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 139

537

two are hired fay my father and myself. Those five estates produced in 1838, Mr. B. B. Greene, 1839, and 1840, a profit of 31,100l., making an average upon the five of 10,277l. 4 March 1848. per annum. 6133. In 1843 there came the earthquake?—Yes; in that year we had a loss upon the 10 estates of 439/. In 1844 we had the small profit of 201l.; the free-labour system was working exceedingly bad ; we did not at first feel the full effect of the working of the measure, because the estates had been well cultivated during the apprenticeship, and were in a good state at the commencement of freedom, and the crop of 1839 was planted by the apprentices in 1838. In 1840 the lands still were good, and we did not feel the ill effects of the absence of careful cultivation ; for instance, at the time of the abolition of the apprenticeship, the Nicola Town estate was perfectly free from nut grass (a noxious weed, which you cannot eradicate when it once gets into patches upon the estate); it soon, however, began to make its appearance, and the estate is now perfectly covered with it. In 1845 matters generally improved, and the 10 estates together made a profit of 5,185l., in 1846 the profit was 5,714/.; making a balance of 10,661/. in favour of these estates during the four years ending with 1846. 6134. What would be the state of the case last year, 1847 ?—We have not got the account up to 1847 yet; I apprehend there will be a loss from the low price at which we have sold the produce. 6135. It is a larger crop than you expected ?—Yes. 6136. But at the low price you think there will be an absolute loss?—I think there will. 6137. Can you state, if the prices continue as they are now, what will be the prospects of the estate?—It must produce a loss of from 4/. to 5l. a ton; that would be a loss of from 3,000/. to 4,000l. a year upon the 10 estates. 6138. How many tons do you average?—We have averaged about 800 tons for the last four years. 6139. Then a loss of 5l. a ton would be 4,000/.?—Yes. 6140. Which would reduce your profits of the last two years to 1,180/. and 1,704 /. ?—Not only should we lose that profit, but make a loss of 4,000 /. In those years we made a profit; but at these prices not only shall we lose our profit, but will incur a loss of 4,000/. in the year; that is taking the average of the cost of cultivation for the last four years, and the average production. 6141. Have you got there an account of all the estates by name ?—I have. 6142. Which any gentleman of the Committee may see, but you do not wish the names to appear ?—No; I have not the authority of the proprietors to publish their names, with the profits and losses; but I have no objection to give them in to the Committee, that they may see them, but when published, to be designated by numbers 1 to 10.

[ Witness delivered in the same, 'which is as follows:]

0.32.

...

ST. KITTS.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

140

ST. KITTS. STATEMENT showing the

EXPENSES,

under various Heads, incurred upon each of Ten Estates, numbered 1 TO10, or per Cwt. of Sugar, and the Profit

Total Negro Labour.

1843: No. 1 No. 2 No. 3 No. 4 No. 5 No. 6 No. 7 No. 8 No. 9 No. 10 TOTAL - -

Animal Salaries. Lumber.

Fodder.

Taxes.

Stock.

Sundries.

Island Expenses.

Old Cattle, &c., sold in Island.

Net

Supplies

Island

from

Expenses.

England.

£.

46 133 17 99 159 143 107

16 100 7 51 42 14 39 190 73 28

86 97 54 76 62 68 38 17 27 48

226 574 117 96 99 118 39 155 157 125

2,297 4,651 1,338 1,916 1,471 1,146 1,139 2,245 1,440 1,443

178 44 120 212 13 7 50 83 25

2,297 4,473 1,292 1,796 1,259 1,133 1,132 2,195 1,357 1,418

594 836 351 411 168 137 65 197 211 83

1,138

1,273

560

573

1,706

19,086

732

18,354

3,053

364 525 260 266 226 202 200 323 208 202

85 199 62 119 102 81 130 182 39 43

158 434

58 46 55 46 60 52 26 18 10 18

204 262 90 129 250 212 79 322 174 125

2,587 4,180 1,401 2,339 1,542 1,384 1,246 2,950 1,550 1,421

78 280 34 133 168 100

329 168 50

47 175 13 36 10 21 37 279 64 42

88 100

2,508 3,900 1,367 2,207 1,373 1,284 1,246 2,950 1,461 1,320

759 891 351 796 310 233 110 304 293 105

12,256

2,776

1,112

1,373

730

389

1,847

20,600

981

19,616

1,237 2,239 796 1,477 688 731 625 1,398 831 684

355 514 233 297 225 200 197 353 174 204

128 333 32 178 58 53 120 199 41 93

34 206 13 123 15 54 22 401 120 81

34 212 8 43 5 50 85 343 28 29

65 64 11 59 11 61 4 26 17 20

199 213 54 225 92 157 72 216 211 150

2,053 4,127 1,147 2,403 1,094 1,306 1,124 2,936 1,422 1,261

10,706

2,752

1,235

1,069

837

338

1,589

1,201 1,697 759 1,264 646 640 620 1,309 724 629

. 283 464 235 296 212 195 203 324 194 190

62 195 46 264 42 40 62 214 70 36

151 124 98 166

156 177 42

26 261 8 29 9 91 60 406 30 22

27 69 11 45 12 58 40 40 15 24

9,489

2,596

1,031

941

942

341

£.

1,413 2,306 857 1,297 867 712 670 1,179 763 683

364 525 259 279 212 201 200 323 205 202

77 411 44 71 56 16 53 192 72 146

115 454

10,747

2,770

1,671 2,422 921 1,521 876 816 774 1,497 887 871

Total Expenses

£■

2,891 5,309 1,645 2,207

1,4 1,270 1,197 2,303

1,578 1,501 21,417

1844: No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

TOTAL - -

222 12

TOTAL - -

185 70 84

2,053 3,727 1,095 2,195 861 1,228 1,125 2,750 1,351 1,178

685 750 281 659 278 356 129 377 230 127

18,872

1,310

17,563

3,872

151 131 56 122 89 160 74 169 191 73

1,901 3,045 1,213 2,186 1,010 1,211 1,059 2,618 1,401 1,016

83 330 36 43 398 70 42 136

1,818 2,715 1,177 2,142 612 1,141 1,017 2,481 1,401 1,016

547 632 193 533 123 243 156 291 200

1,216

16,660

1,138

15,520

3,018

400 52 208 233 78

1846 : No. 1 No. 2 No. 3 No. 4 No. 5 No. 6 No. 7 No. 8 No. 9 No. 10

1,683

fa, fa

23,768 4,152 "

1845 : No. 1 No. 2 No. 3 No. 4 No. 5 No. 6 No. 7 No. 8 No. 9 No. 10

1,718

100

2,738 2,730

4,477

1,376 2,854 1,139

fa fa,

fa 1,370

2,675

fa fa fa 5

IS, ' TOTAL - -

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

141

539

ST. KITTS. together with the Produce and Net Proceeds thereof, the Cost (after deducting the Proceeds of Rum and Molasses), Loss in each case, for 1843 to 1846. Tons of Sugar,

Cwts.

Puncheons

Proceeds

of Rum and

Molasses.

Rum.

Molasses.

Sugar.

£.

670 1,460 350 670 370 220 250 540 240 450

25 26 5 33 9 9 4 24 9 6

493 792 198 512 241 164 116 418 155 226

2,519 4,491 1,147 1,914 1,013 1,072 990 2,428 1,079 992

3,012 5,283 1,345 2,426 1,272 1,236 1,106 2,846 1,234 1,218

121

5,220

150

3,315

17,663

20,978

640 1,310 290 830 390 230 290 470 290 410

38 28 6 43 13 18 18 31 3 14

491 575 139 592 228 201 211 432 95 216

3,044 4,214 1,005 3,179 1,211 1,676 1,387 2,958 935 1,180

3,535 4,789 1,144 3,771 1,439 1,877 1,598 3,390 1,030 1,396

5,150

212

3,180

20,789

23,969

670 1,010 200 500 430 350 290 400 190 320

37 27 8 44 10 8 19 33 10 16

558 587 136 585 253 193 337 450 171 241

3,420 4,165 1,123 3,008 1,671 1,614 1,534 3,861 1,326 1,387

3,978 4,752 1,259 3,593 1,924 1,807 1,871 4,311 1,497 1,628

4,360

212

3,511

23,109

26,630

5,185

1,010 970 190 990 160 330 420 560 240 280

28 24 19 36 3 11 19 21 24 7

923 845 357 1,016 119 297 421 602 342 225

3,243 4,069 1,170 3,020 434 1,093 1,165 2,637 1,266 1,008

4,166 4,914 1,527 4,036 553 1,390 1,586 3,239 1,608 1,233

1,801 1,567 157 1,361

5,150

192

5,147

19,105

24,252

Total Proceeds.

Profit.

Loss.

—

102 199 47 79 79 43 41 36 97

46 41 731

132 194 44

137 5454

66 127 41 47 900

127 153 44 115 65 59 50 147 41 50

£.

Cost of Sugar, after deducting Rum and Molasses, per Cwt.

_ 26 300

219

—

155 34 81

454

—

344 283

—

439

—

268 2 574

768

—

244 360 242 136

— — .—.

724 29

201

_ _ _ — —

22 10

1,240 275

—

117

739 785 223 617 1,184

—

323

—

— —

—

85l

115 155 44 116 17 42 43 101 50 36 719

182

6 413 467 7 117 5,714

—

•32.

ST. KITTS.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

142

ST. KITTS. STATEMENT showing the

TOTALS

of the Ten Estates for each Item during each Year on the foregoing Return.

1843

£.

10,745

2,770

1,138

1,273

560

573

1,706

19,086

732

18,354

3,053

21,417

1844

12,254

2,776

1,112

1,373

730

389

1,847

20,600

981

19,616

4,152

23,768

1845

10,704

2,752

1,235

1,069

837

338

1,589

18,872

1,310

17,563

3,872

21,435

1846

9,489

2,596

1,031

941

942

341

1,216

16,660

1,138

15,520

3,018

Grand Total

18,538 85,158

Average

£.

731

5,220

150

3,315

17,663

20,978

900

6,150

212

3,180

20,789

23,969

201

851

4,360

212

3,511

23,109

26,620

719

5,150

192

5,147

19,105

3,201

15,153

£.

439

1843.

22 10

30 10

1844.

5,185

1845.

24,252

5,714

95,819

10,661

21 10

2,664

1846.

Grand Total.

—

Average.

N.B.—The increased value of the rum and molasses in 1840 reduced the cost per cwt. of sugar in that year, for it will he observed that though the quantities of these articles were not materially greater, they produced 1,6001, more than in 1845, and which makes a difference of 2s. 5 d. per cwt., as compared with that year; but had the same sum only been derived, the cost would have been 21 s. The explanation is necessary to show that the reduced cost of producing the sugar is not to bo attributed to reduction of expenses, but to the accidental increase in the price of the offal crop. Mr. B. B. Greene. 4 March 1848.

6143. Your house also receives consignments from Jamaica?—It does from four sugar estates. In December 1846, foreseeing as we did the impossibility of estates paying their expenses, we gave up two others ; the proprietors not having any other means to help them, we declined to make any advances for the cultivation of them. Those estates produced about 400 hogsheads a year ; we therefore gave up the consignments of those properties, because we had not sufficient confidence to make the necessary advances for cultivation. 6144. Not after the passing of the Bill of 1846 ?—No. 6145. Are those estates consequently abandoned ?—I believe not yet; we made up our minds before December ; but could not give them up till that time, because the produce was coming. We gave notice of it almost immediately after the passing of the Bill of 1846. 6146. Can you state the cost of producing sugar on those four estates ?—The cost of producing sugar upon those four estates, for four years ending 1846, was 22 s. 9 d. per cwt., put upon the beach ready for shipment, as shown by the statement I hold in my hand. [ The Witness delivered in the same, which is as follows;] JAMAICA.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

143

541 Mr. B. B. Greene.

JAMAICA. 4 March 1848. STATEMENT showing the Expenses of CULTIVATION, &C. on the Total of Four Estates for each of the Years 1843 to 1846; the Produce and Net Proceeds thereof, the Cost per Cwt. of Sugar (after deducting the Proceeds of Rum), and the Profit or Loss,

1843

£.

5,957

7,710

13,667

1,438

15,105

2,213

12,892

1844

0,107

7,819

13,926

1,749

15,675

1,989

13,686

1845

6,317

6,605

12,922

1,644

14,566

1,952

12,614

1846

7,333

4,516

11,849

1,258

13,107

1,553

11,554

Grand Total -

50,746

£.

389

201

1,943

9,480

11,423

521

259

3,623

11,624

15,227

1,541

507

294

3,579

13,407

16,986

4,372

327

159

2,009

7,934

9,943

1,744

11,154

53,579

£.

1,469

1843.

1844. 1845.

1,611 2,833

1846.

Grand Total.

6147. What is the long price of that sugar now in the London market ?—From 39 s. to 40s. 6148. That leaves you about 18s. after the payment of duties, freight and sale charges?—Yes ; that would leave 18s. 6149. Which would leave you a loss of about 4s. 9d. a cwt. ?—Yes. 6150. Had those four estates been profitable up to the year 184G ?—Yes; in 1835 the proprietor got 21,587/.; in 1836, 22,102/.; in 1837, 18,720l.; in 1838, 9,428/.; and in 1839, 9,265/. Those are the amounts actually given to his credit after the payment of everything. 6151. Quite net?—Quite net, paid over to him by my father and myself. In 1840 those estates produced a loss of 12/.; in 1841, a profit of 2,673/.; in 1842 there was a loss of 746/.; in 1843, a loss of 1,157/.; in 1844, a profit of 1,574/.; in 1845, a profit of 5,123/.; and in 184G there was a loss of 1,134/. 6152. Was there any excessive outlay in those latter years ?—I think not; in 1846 they produced but small crops, as did the whole island of Jamaica ; the loss in 1846 was attributable to the small crop ; these estates only made 327 tons, against 507 in the year before. 6153. Do you know of your own knowledge, or from tradition, what upon those estates used to be the average ?—The son of the proprietor told me, a few days ago, that a few years previously to the abolition of slavery he used to receive 30,000l. a year from them, but at one time much more. 6154. At the present prices, what will be the state of the balance-sheet? Taking the average of the production of the estates, and the average expenses of the last four years, they would leave a loss of nearly 2,000/. 6155. I)o you think it possible that the free labour of the British colonies can successfully compete against the slave labour and the slave trading of Cuba and Brazil ?—Decidedly not, without a protection. 0.32 T4 6156. What

144 Mr. B. B. Greene. 4 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

6156. What protection should you think necessary?—I think not less than 10s. a cwt., and other remedial measures to be given to the colonies, such as facilities for procuring labour, and many other little matters, into the detail of which I have not gone, because without protection I feel it utterly useless to consider those details in the least. 6157. Unless a protection equal to 10s. a cwt. is given, what do you think will be the result ?—That a very large proportion of the estates will go out of sugar cultivation. 6158. Do you think as much as half of the estates will ?—It is matter of opinion. In the course of time fully one half, I think, perhaps more, will go out of cultivation. I do not mean to say they will do so in one year ; time will be taken to put them out of cultivation. Cultivation will be maintained on some of the estates, while others will go entirely out. 6159. Have you confidence enough in the present state of things to venture to make any more advances to any of those estates ?—Certainly not, to the extent of a shilling. I am curtailing what business I have as much as possible, and therefore I should certainly not take any new business of the kind. In confirmation of my own opinion, which has been formed ever since this Bill was in agitation, I may state that one of my partners, Mr. James Blyth, being associated with Mr. Thomas Baring and Mr. M'Chlery in the inspectorship of the affairs of Messrs. Reid, Irving & Co., have unanimously come to the conclusion of not advancing any money out of the funds in their hands towards sustaining the cultivation of Messrs. Reid, Irving & Co.'s 23 large estates in the island of Mauritius, producing last year 9,800 tons of sugar. 6160. Do you mean that your partner, with Mr. Thomas Baring and Mr. M'Chlery, as inspectors, will not permit any of the London assets of Messrs. Reid, Irving & Co. to be applied even to taking off the coming crop ?—They have nothing to do with that; that would rather rest with the parties out there, but they will not advance any money to sustain its future cultivation. 6161. The crop which is now upon the ground you think will be taken off?—I think it will. 6162. But that will be the last ?—No doubt there will be a portion of the crop made in a future year; they will allow the canes to grow up. I do not know what arrangements other parties may make, but if parties here will not make any advances to carry on the cultivation, the greater part must consequently go out of cultivation. 6163. Supposing Parliament were to declare that there should be a protection of 10s. for five or seven years to come, do you think that would restore confidence ?—My view is, that there should be a protection of 10s., and that all those remedial measures should immediately be carried into effect in good earnest, and then if we had an actual protection of 10s., without defining the period, I think that confidence, which grows slowly, would be restored, and the cultivation would continue, and probably increase. 6164. By saying "an actual protection of 10s.," you mean to imply that the sugars of Cuba are very superior in quality to the average of the sugar of the British colonies, and that therefore a nominal protection of 10s. would not be a bond fide protection ?—It would not. The strong and higher priced qualities of foreign sugar are the only ones that pay duty ; whereas all British sugars pay the duty, or nearly so, however low the description may be ; and consequently on some qualities, containing a much larger quantity of saccharine matter than ours do, we have no protection at all; on others from 2s. to 3s. or 4s., varying according to the strength and quality of the sugar. 6165. The greater part of the Havannah sugars are clayed, arc not they?— They are. 6166. And that requires a great deal of labour?—Yes; and a great deal of waste is involved in it. 6167. You, being short of labour, cannot afford to clay as well as they can ?— Certainly not. 6168. It is the want of labour that impedes your claying the sugar, and putting your sugars upon an equality with those of Havannah ?—Yes, that is one of the causes. 6169. What is the distinction in value that you would put upon Cuba sugars, as compared with your own muscovadoes ?—The price current which I have here will show the comparative value of those sugars which I have just now quoted : muscovadoes

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 145

543

muscovadoes are 11s. 5d. to 13s. 9d. Those are the sugars that ought to be con- ]Mr. B. B. Greene. sidered equal to the West India sugars. 4. March 1848. 6170. And ought to be charged a differential duty ?—Muscovadoes and fine clayed yellows are two distinct articles : one is the raw article, and the other the manufactured article. The manufactured article contains a much larger quantity of saccharine matter than the raw article does. 6171. Have you the invoice price of those sugars, and can you tell what are the duties at which they come in ?—All those sugars I have quoted except the white, and there is probably some doubt about what they call the fine yellow, would come in at the low duty of 20s. 6172. What is the difference in value in Havannah between that superior quality of sugar that comes in at 20s., and that quality which you say is perfectly equal to West India muscovado?—Eight shillings to 9s. 6173. There is 8s. to 9s. difference in value?—Yes. 6174. So that the manufactured article comes in under the raw article duty? —Decidedly so ; but we have a much lower description of sugar than these muscovadoes, which pays the same amount of duty ; that is a low description of West India sugar, and also a low Madras sugar. 6175. Have you any samples of these sugars?—Yes; that (producing the same) is a sample of khaur sugar, the great mass is of that quality; there is a much lower kind, which I did not bring ; this pays 14s. The sample I hold in my hand (another sample) is a sample of Havannah sugar, which paid the low duty, and was imported by ourselves in a ship called the Scourfield. 6176. What is the long price of those two sugars ?—The khaur was yesterday worth from 28s. 6d., duty included, to 29s.; the Havannah sugar is worth from 42s. to 43s. 6177. So that there is a difference of 13s. 6d. in the intrinsic value of the two articles, which are rated at the same duty ?—I have seen sugars paying 14s. duty sold at 22s. long price; and if the Act of 1846 should continue, in 1851 they will be charged the same rate of duty as the Havannah. 6178. If the Act continues, this Havannah sugar will have a premium of 13s. 6d. ?—Yes; there is the same difference between those two articles that there is between a bale of cotton wool and a bale of cotton goods. 6179. Have you any sample of Madras sugar with you?—Yes; the value of that (producing a sample) yesterday was 30s. a cwt.; this is a sample of the great bulk of Madras sugar that comes in here. There is some a little better, but it forms but a small quantity. 6180. That is 16s. ex the duty?—Yes. 6181. Which, with 10s. charges, makes it necessary that it should be put on board at 4s. ?—Yes. 6182. With respect to West India sugar, will you state the difference ?—Here (producing a sample) is a sample of the average quality of West India sugar ; that was valued yesterday at 40s. per cwt. in the warehouse; it has been as low as 36s. 6d.; here (another sample) is a sample of low quality West India, of which a good deal comes in valued at 37 s. 6183. In point of fact, there is no sugar from the British West Indies that comes in which is at all upon an equality in point of intrinsic value with the sugar that comes in under a 20s. duty from Havannah?—I will not say that; there is some small amount of sugar which comes in equal in quality to that, but the great bulk of the sugar from Havannah is superior. 6184. Is there a great deal better quality than this which comes in under a 14s. duty ?—Yes; there is a better quality than this which comes in at a 14s. duty ; if any came in of that quality it would pass in the same way as foreign sugar does. 6185. It is from the want of sufficient labour in the West Indies that you cannot produce your sugar in the same state of perfection that they do in Cuba ? —It is from the want of sufficient labour and continuous labour. There is a great deal of labour required in producing sugar of extra quality, and it might become a question whether that labour would be well applied. 6186. Do you think if you had more labour you would produce better sugar? -—I think we should make generally a better quality of sugar ; we made a better quality during the years of slavery than we do now. 6187. The West India sugar was of a superior quality during slavery to what it is now, was it?—I think, speaking generally, it was. 0.32. U 6188. Do

146

Mr. B. B. Greene 4 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

6188. Do you know anything of the sugar of Porto Rico?—I can tell the Committee the price at which that sugar is sold on the spot; I have the price current from St. Thomas's, an island in the neighbourhood of Porto Rico, where the principal business of Porto Rico is conducted, dated St. Thomas's, 31st of January 1848, and I find Porto Rico sugar, inferior to middling, was selling at 2 I dollars, making 12s. 5(7. per cwt., free on board; fine to superior at 14s. 8d. per cwt., free on board. 6189. You do not know how low it was before the British market was open to them ?—This is notwithstanding that the British market is open to them. 6190. Do you imagine they are producing and selling at that price at a good profit now ?—I apprehend that they are ; I think if we refer to the great increase which has been annually taking place in the production of Cuba upon those low prices which I have already quoted, we shall find that during those four years the average was only 18s. 2d., but notwithstanding that they have forced their cultivation to the extent they have done; I think the only inference is, that it is paying them well. I will state to the Committee the progressive increase in the exports from Cuba ; my returns only extend to two ports, those of Havannah and Matanzas. In 1831 they exported 80,577 tons; in 1832, 88,337 tons; in 1833, 85,797 tons; in 1834, 91,749 tons; in 1835, 98,312 tons; iu 183G, 100,030 tons ; in 1837, 100,590 tons; in 1838, 122,101 tons; in 1839, 104,760 tons; in 1840, 141,506 tons; in 1841, 139,286 tons; in 1842, 135,246 tons ; in 1843, 143,098 tons; in 1844, 171,400 tons; in 1845, the year of the drought, it fell to 73,122 tons ; in 1846, it rose to 162,000 ; and in 1847, to 203,000 tons. This is from those two ports alone; they expected to export 15,000 tons in addition ; those prices have also stimulated the slave trade to a very considerable degree. I observe in the Morning Herald of this day a statement headed " The Navy," which, with permission, I will read : " We have letters from the coast of Africa, which all speak of the slave trade as increasing in an enormous degree. From Sierra Leone, January 9th, we hear that the Ferret, of six guns, Commander Sprigg, had captured a small vessel with no less than 752 negroes on board ; for humanity's sake the Ferret took 100 on board for conveyance, out of which 20 died on the passage and of the remainder on board the prize above 100 expired before the vessel reached the port of adjudication." From these circumstances I can infer nothing else than that the sugar trade of Cuba and Brazil must be in a very prosperous condition, and that they are making profits at those prices, low as they are. 6191. Do you understand that there is any difficulty on the part of the planters of Cuba and Brazil in borrowing money now?—I do not know anything of the internal affairs of those countries. 6192. Have you any estimate of the produce of Cuba for the coming year ?— My estimate gives an increase of 15,000 tons. 6193. From that place alone?—I may say from the island ; I put the whole exports of 1847 at 265,000 tons; that is from every part of the island. This year they expect it will be 280,000 tons. 6194. Upon your experience, how do you estimate the value of resident and non-resident planters, as far as improvements in the way of enterprise and skill go?—I resided between seven and eight years iu St. Kitts, where there are a few resident proprietors, and my experience would lead me to think that they do not manage their estates so well as the absentees do by their agents. 6195. There is not the same spirit of enterprise?—They have neither the capital nor the energy, I think, of the agents that are sent out by the absentee proprietors. The absentee proprietors send out more articles for improving the estates, I think, than are thought of by resident proprietors. 6.196. In the way perhaps of different implements of agriculture?—Yes, and things of that kind ; here we are on the qui vive, and every improvement that is made we try to adopt and send it out. They have to wait and see what others are doing, and their estates generally do not appear to be managed so well as those that are under the direction of active agents. 6197. Of proprietors residing in England ?—Of proprietors who are absent in England ; in fact, we have a correspondent of our own, who is a native of one of the islands, and I may mention that we have thought it necessary to give information to him as well as to others that we can no longer continue to make advances beyond the value of the sugar which he sends us home, and he says it

will

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

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will stop his cultivation. He is a resident proprietor, and employs an agent I Mr. B. B. Greene. because he thinks that agent will do better for the estate than he can himself. 4 March 1848. 6198. Sir E. Buxton.] You stated that during the time of slavery the cultivation of sugar was much cheaper than it is now?—Yes. 6199. And that greater profits were made in those times ?—Yes ; I can speak with reference to the properties which came under my own immediate observation. I can state also the expenses incurred upon the properties, which are matters of fact. 6200. Was that a fair average of the island of St. Kitts, do you imagine?—I should think it was. No doubt some estates produced sugar at a less, and some at a greater cost. 6201. I ask the question, because I have before me an account given by a Select Committee in 1832, which describes the island of St. Kitts as being in a state of the most severe distress ?—It may have been so as regards price here; the average price of sugar in 1831 was 23s. 8d.; in 1832 it had risen to 27s. 8d., for the whole year. They were of course feeling the influence of 1831, and in 1830 prices were very low. 6202. Do you suppose that in those days our colonists could compete with Cuba?—Yes, I think they could. 6203. Our having so much sugar at home as to be able to export it, was not incompatible with prosperity ?—I think not. 6204. Mr. Colquhoun, the agent for St. Kitts, says, in 1832, " The fall of property is, in many cases, equal to two-thirds of the value of that property 10 years ago; I mean that the property is now worth only one-third of what it was at that period ; from their being undersold (as far as the surplus of sugar beyond the home consumption in this market is concerned) in the foreign market by foreign sugar raised at less cost; I mean the slave-trade sugars; for in spite of the slave abolition treaties, the slave-trade has been carried on, and will be, until the Cuban is undersold in the foreign market by British refined and other sugar, which can only be done by a bounty on the exportation of refined sugar"?—I think slave-trade sugar would be produced cheaper than the slave-grown sugar of the British colonies. We were then acting under a very mild system of slavery ; we had to depend for our supply of labourers upon those whom we reared upon the properties. 6205. Was it the case that you were prosperous under slavery, and could compete with Cuba ?—There would be a difference in their favour, undoubtedly, from their importing slaves, over ourselves, who could not import slaves. 6206. What did you state was the price of raising sugar under slavery ?— Taking the average of the lastfour years of slavery, 4s. 5d. per cwt., after deducting the value of the rum and molasses. 6207. Does that include the expenses of the slave ?—It includes the expense of keeping him, his maintenance, and every expense except interest upon his value. I have not included any interest in any case which I have stated. 6208. It does not include the cost of rearing him, does it ?—Yes, it does. 6209. What do you imagine would be the interest?—Taking the value of compensation, we had 331 slaves, old and young, the compensation amounted to about 5,700 I. I think the Commissioners valued them at nearly double. 6210. What would you calculate the interest and the chance of loss of life?—• Loss of life is included in the rearing ; I have only to add the interest upon the value of the slave. I take that upon the compensation to amount to 2 s. G d. upon a hundred weight. The slaves were valued at 36/. 10s. 101/2d. The planter received 16l. 13 s. 0 1/2d. 6211. Provided you took the compensation value as the true value, you would take it at 2 s. 6 d. ?■—Yes. 6212. If vou took the Commissioners' valuation it would be double that ?— Yes. 6213. Mr. Wilson.] The produce of 1846 on this estate was 155 tons ; do you know what the produce of 1847 has been?—I do not, but it will be more than that. 6214. A great deal more, will not it?—I do not know whether it will on that estate. 6215. You have given, in the expenditure of this estate, the cost of the last year as 16l. 2$.; you make the average cost of a ton the last four years, 21 /. 11 s.; that average cost is made up by a very high cost in 1845, a very high 0.32. U 2 cost

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Mr. B. B. Greene. cost in 1843, and a high cost in 1844, but the cost of 184G is only 16l. 2s.

I observe, in the net expenditure of the estate, that in 1843 the expenditure is 4,516l.; 4 March 1848. in 1844, 4,217/.; in 1845, 3,868 /.; and in 1846, 2,497 I.; can you explain what caused that very great difference on the same estate in those three or four years ? In 1843 there was an earthquake in St. Kitts, which partially destroyed some of the buildings; that increased the expenditure for that year ; but then hurricanes are visitations to which we are liable, and it is only upon an average of years that you can estimate the cost of production. 6216. Is an average of four years sufficient to include the chances of a hurricane or an earthquake ?—For a hurricane four years is not more than sufficient; they rather look for a hurricane once in three years to do more or less damage. We have not had a hurricane during that time, but we have had one earthquake. 6217. In 1844, the expenditure w as 4,217 /. ?—Yes ; it is just possible that a portion of the expenses might fall in that year. The expenses cannot be divided accurately for any particular year, from the way in which the accounts are necessarily kept. They are made up to the 30th of April in each year; and in the article of supplies, if a ship sailed on the 28th of April with supplies for an estate, it would go into that year ; but if it did not sail until the 2d or 3d of May, it would go into the account of the next year. Therefore that year would not show the actual expenses belonging to the crop of that year. 6218. In the item of labour, I find in the years 1843, 1844 and 1845, the amounts are 2,306 l., 2,421 l., and 2,239 /., and then in 1846 the item of labour sinks down to 1,697 l. ?—That is to be accounted for principally by an introduction of implemental labour having taken place in 1845. Though we had been attempting to introduce machinery before, we began to succeed only in the early part of 1846. 6219. You have already derived a great advantage from it?—Yes6220. Then if we take the produce of the estate, there is only two tons difference between 1845 and 1846; in the one year you produce 153 tons, and in the other year 155 tons, but the difference of cost is very great between the average of the two years; the average of one is 25 s. Id. a hundredweight, the average of the other only 16 s. 2 d. ?—That must be the case where the expenses are so much more in one year than the other. 6221. Do you attribute all that saving to the introduction of implemental labour in that year ?—I think in a great measure; the seasons may have helped it a little. In some seasons there is more labour required than in others. 6222. You know no other reason to which you would ascribe the difference ? • —I think that it would be to be attributable to the implements we sent out, which came into fair operation, and also a portion roust be attributed to the favourable seasons, and the increased value of the offal crop. This alone accounts for 2 s. per cwt. 6223. In 1844 the expense of the labour was no less than 2,421/.; in 1845 you seem to have effected a saving of 200 /. and it was reduced to 2,239 /., and then in 1846 you reduced it to 1,697 /.; can you tell us what it will be in 1847? —I cannot; I have not got the accounts for more than one estate out of the ten, at present. 6224. In the other plantation expenses there appears to have been a very rapid reduction; in 1843 they were 2,300/., in 1844, 1,700/., and in 1845, 1,800/., and then in 1846 you fall down to 1,300/. again?—In the years 1843 and 1844 we were repairing buildings ; in the year 1845 it might want other repairs necessary upon the estate, shingling or new roofs, which did not fall in the year 1846. 6225. Are the Committee to understand that you are speaking from a recollection of the fact?—I know that our instructions were that they were to practise the most rigid economy ; that they were not to expend a single shilling which was not absolutely necessary. 6226. When did you send out those orders?—Ever since 1845 and 1846. 6227. You think the effect of the threatened competition has led to economizing the cost of production? —If they had expended nothing in buildings, but allowed them to go on for several years, the expenditure in those years in which they allowed them to stand would remain small, but it will require a very large outlay in future years. 6228. You are afraid they have not kept them up insufficient repair?—I think very likely not. 6229. The

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The crops of 1846 and 1845 are very much lower than any preceding Mr. B. B. Greene. crop of this estate. In 1841 you have 206 tons; in 1842, 240; in 1843, 199; and in 1844, 197 ; so that in those four years, from 1841 to 1844, you appear to 4 March 1848. have had crops rather exceeding the average of 200 tons. In the last two years of this calculation the crops were little more than 150 tons?—Yes ; that is partly owing to reduced cultivation of plant canes with a view to save cost; they have ratooned more than they used to do; when I lived upon the estate I had only about 10 acres of ratoons; now they have from 70 to 90, instead of all plants. They have fewer plants and more ratoons; the ratoons are not so productive as the plants ; they save expense, but the amount yielded is smaller. 6230. Then it would appear that your opinion as to the resident proprietors would not hold good in that case ?—I was not a resident proprietor on any estate in the West Indies. The estate belonged to my father. 6231. In 1834 you produced sugar as low as 3 5. a cwt. from this estate ?— Yes. 6232. Was that a common thing in the West Indies?—I think the estate adjoining to that estate made it at even less, taking certain years, because I think the molasses and the rum paid the total expense on an estate in my neighbourhood. 6233. Are you aware that in 1832 there was a Committee sitting in this country as to the West India distress?—Yes. 6234. Are you aware that there was a paper produced to that Committee which affected to give the average cost of the sugar in the West Indies, and which brought it out at 15 5. 10 d. ?—I have only heard of such a thing, I have not seen the return. 6234*. Have the freight of sugar and the expenses of bringing it home diminished since that period ?—The freight was higher at that period than it is now. 6235. What was the average freight then ?—The freight from St. Kitts was 5 /. a ton ; now it is 4 /. 10 5. 6236. Were there any other expenses that were different; shipping or insurance ? —I do not recollect that there were. C237. From your advices with regard to this property, are you disposed to expect a still more beneficial result from the use of those implements which you have sent out?—No ; I cannot say that I expect much increased advantage; we may get a little, but I think we are deriving nearly all the advantage we can expect. 6238. You said that the value of sugar from this estate at the present moment was 27 s. in bond, without duty ?—No ; I should think the value of the sugar on that estate would be about 25 s. to 26 s. 6239. You made the cost come to 29 5. by adding 7 s. for freight ?—Seven shillings and sixpence I add. 6240. Adding 7 s. 6 d. to the actual cost of the crop of 1846, what, will it make ?—Twenty-three shillings and eight-pence. 6241. You actually had a profit upon the last year's crop, had not you ?— I should have had at these prices; at the price of to-day, not the panic price. 6242. What is the difference between the price of to-day and the panic price ? —Three shillings or 4 s. 6243. Do you mean to tell the Committee that the price of sugar is 3 s. or 4 5. higher that it was four months ago ?—Taking the average price of sugar, I see that on the 9th of November West India sugar was 22 s. 6 d., and it is now 24 s. 4 d., but one description of sugar diminishes or increases in value more than another. There may be a difference of 3 s. 6 d. upon some sugar. 6244. The average price of the whole of last year was much more than the present price which you have quoted ?—The average price of the whole of last year was 28 s. 5 d.; that included the prices in January and February, which ruled from 33 s. to 38 s. 6245. What would the average value of this sugar be according to those prices; about 4s. more, would not it?—Taking it at 25s. 6d., this will be 1 s. above the average; that would make on the 25th of January 39 s. 6246. You said the average price of the whole year was 28 s. 5 d.; this sugar you have produced to-day you say is worth 1 s. more than the present average ; will you add 1 s. to the average of the whole year ?—That would make 29s. 5d. 6247. According to the average price of sugar for the last year you have received 29 s. 5 d., or this sugar has been worth 29 s. 5 d. ?—That will depend u 3 0.32. upon 6229.

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Mr. B. B. Greene. upon whether my crop comes in early or late; if I got my crop in early I should 4 March 1848.

have more than the average ; if I got it in late, I should have less upon the average. Taking it throughout the year, it would come to 29 s. 5 d. 6248. And the cost of it imported into this country has been 23 s. 2d. ?—Yes. 6249. Therefore upon this crop you will have made a profit of upwards of 5 s. a cwt. ?—If I made that crop in 1847 as cheaply as I did in 1846. 6250. You admit that the crop has b,een larger in 1847?—But the expenses may have been larger also. 6251. In the absence of any knowledge, you cannot presume upon that?—No, nor can I go upon that single year 1846 ; one year is not a fair criterion to take. In any calculation you must neither take the highest nor the lowest. Because I produced sugar at 16 s. 2d. in 1846, it does not follow that I shall do it in 1848. 6252. From your extensive experience in the sugar market, how far do you think the very extraordinary crop of last year has influenced the present depression of prices ; there has been a large crop in every sugar-producing country in the last year, has not there ?—Except in Louisiana. 6253. The crop arriving here in 1847 has been larger than any sugar crop for many years before?—Yes. 6254. How far do you think that that excess of quantity has affected the value of sugar as a whole ?—Of course it must be a matter of opinion ; I think that the depreciation in the price, owing to the importation of foreign sugar under the Bill of 1846, would make a difference of perhaps nearly 10 s. a cwt. 6255. Upon what do you base that opinion?—I base that opinion upon the usual effect that is produced upon a large supply, compared with the demand. 6256. Has not the supply been as unusually large from our own colonies as it has of foreign growth ?—Still that supply was not more than sufficient for the demand ; we commenced the year with a low stock and a consequent high price, and with this importation and consumption we should have left off with the same stock with which we began. 6257. What do you think would have been the state of the sugar market provided the Bill of 1846 had not been passed, but we had adhered to the Bill of 1845, under which Bill free-labour sugar only was admitted, and that at a duty of 23s. 4 d. for brown clayed, and 28 s. for white clayed ?—Brown sugar paid a duty of 23 s. 4 d.; upon British sugar it was 14 s.; that was 9 s. 4 d. difference. 6258. Supposing the Bill of 1845 had remained in force till now, and the Bill of 1846 had not been passed, what do you think would have been the effect upon the price of sugar having those large crops?—I think we should have got about the same average as we had done in preceding years; I think those prices would have about ruled ; the average price was then 33 s. for the whole of 1845 ; in 1846 it it was 33 s. 10 d. 6259. Did not the loss of the Cuba crop of 1845 cause a great elevation of the general price of sugar in Europe?—Of foreign sugar, unquestionably. 6260. The loss was altogether unsupplied from this country, was not it?—It could produce very little effect upon the markets of this country, because at that time their sugar was not admissible here. 6261. But foreign free-labour sugar was?—Yes; it would go up and be on a par with British. 6262. Are not you aware that it was higher than British in price ?—It may have been, because the price on the continent was very high, and I think very likely a portion of our sugar went to the continent. 6263. Do you recollect that a large portion went to the continent ?—Yes. 6264. A great quantity of crushed sugar went to Russia ?—Yes, but that was not free-labour sugar. 6265. And a great deal of the Java sugar which came here was re-shipped to Holland ?—I am not aware of that. Our supplies were principally derived from Manilla, for home consumption. I think the free-labour sugar we used amounted to a consumption of 3,800 tons in that year. 6266. You conclude that the Cuba people are making a good profit by their sugar, from the fact of the rapid increase of production ?—Certainly. What other inference can be drawn ? 6267. What do you think of the Mauritius; without any other evidence you conclude that the Cuba people must be making a profit, because they arc rapidly increasing

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increasing their production ; the Mauritius has been making a very rapid increase Mr. B. B. Greene. in its cultivation during the last three or four years; do you think that that is conclusive evidence that they have done well?—Yes. The money has not been 4 March 1848. expended merely to produce the increased quantity of sugar, but includes outlay for permanent improvements and payments of mortgages. A large portion of the expenditure was incurred (but which now turns out to be lost) to increase the permanent productiveness of the estates, and had not the Bill of 1846 been passed, but had protection to the same amount been given as by the Act of 1845, Mauritius perhaps would have gone on increasing, and the planters would now have been reaping the fruits of the large sums they had invested. 6268. That does not show that increased protection is always a sign of profit ? —It goes on for a series of years. If you look back from 1831 you will find that the cultivation of Cuba has increased from 80,000 tons to 200,000 tons. What inference can be drawn but that which I have stated ? 6269. During that period the Mauritius has more than doubled its quantity also?—During a less period than that; it is during a period of three or four years that the Mauritius has doubled its crops, while Cuba has been steadily increasing for the last 17 years. 6270. You gave the Committee the profit and loss upon an estate in Jamaica upon a number of years; in 1845 there appeared to be a considerable profit, while several years before there was a loss; was that from the accidental size of the crop?—I think the crop sufficiently explains it; they made in that year 507 tons, while in 1846 they only made 347. The whole expenses were actually less in 1846 than they were in 1845. 6271. You think, without an actual protection of 10.?., it will not be possible for the West Indies to continue their cultivation ?—I think that is the protection they require to enable them to continue cultivation. 6272. Would you confine that protection to slave sugar, or extend it to all foreign sugar alike ?—That must be left to the decision of Parliament. If you ask my private opinion, I am decidedly in favour of excluding slave-grown produce upon other principles ; but taking a commercial view of it, I should say a protection of 10s. against all; taking into consideration other circumstances, I should exclude the produce of slave countries altogether. I have no objection to go back to the Bill of 1845, allowing 9s. 4d. differential duty between foreign free-labour sugars and our own. 6273. Do you think that it would practically influence your interests if there were a distinction made between slave-grown sugar and foreign free-labour sugar; —I do not think it. would much. 6274. Do you think there is more foreign free-labour sugar grown in the world than we can take in, in addition to our own growth, under any circumstances?—• I think there is a larger quantity of what is termed free-labour grown, but I hardly think the sugar of Java can be classed as free-labour sugar. 6275. Can you give the Committee any good reason for that opinion ?—The only reason I can give is, that I have understood that the labour there is a species of coerced labour. 6276. How far do you understand that it is so?—I must refer you to somebody else who is more acquainted with Java than I am. If you put it that the sugars of Java, Manilla, and other countries of that description, are to be admissible here at a low rate of duty, I do not know that the difference would be very great in the price; there would, in my opinion, be a difference in our favour if slave sugar were prohibited and the others were admitted. 6277. Are you acquainted with the quantity that is grown in those countries? —Yes. 6278. About how much ?—Java grows from 70,000 to 90,000 tons, Manilla 22,000 to 24,000 tons, a portion of which goes to Australia. 6279. Shipped to Europe from those countries, is there upwards 100,000 tons? —I do not know what is shipped to Europe. 6280. What is the largest quantity of foreign sugar which we have ever taken into consumption in this country ?—Forty-eight thousand tons. 6281. If there were therefore a supply of 100,000 tons in order to furnish that consumption of 48,000 tons, there would be a large surplus ?—Yes if it were available, undoubtedly there would. 6282. Would not it be available, provided there was a higher price?—All would not come here. I know what the Honourable Member alludes to. I agree U 4 ' 0.32. with

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Mr. B. B. Greene. with him in a great measure that it would make very little difference, but I do 4

March 1848.

consider that it would make a difference; I do not consider the difference would be very much if free-labour sugar were to be admitted here and slave labour excluded. 6283. Are you aware that this last year the Dutch government ordered 14 or 15 large cargoes from Java to Cowes, to receive orders in the Channel ?—I know they ordered some. 6284. Are you aware that two cargoes came into the London market and were sold ?—Yes, and notwithstanding the high prices here, the others went to Holland. 6285. When the others arrived, you would assume that the Dutch government found there was no advantage to be derived from sending them to London, and therefore they sent them to Rotterdam?—Yes. 62S6. Had their been the advantage of a difference of price it is to be assumed they would have come to London?—Yes ; I believe, however, they prefer having their own sugar direct; and unless they got a decided advantage in this market they would not let them come here. 6287. Have you considered what effect the influence of a protective duty of 10 s. a cwt., with all those additional advantages of an increased supply of labour, better laws, and better economy in the colonies, and so on, would have upon the production of our colonies?—I think the production would continue; I think the cultivation of the properties would continue to go on. 6288. Do you think it would increase?—I think after a time it would; it would take some time, however. You have destroyed confidence so much that it would take some time, but in the course of a few years you might make as much as you have hitherto made in the British colonies, and I think very likely you would increase the production. 6289. The decrease of the production in the meantime would increase the price here ?—Yes. 6290. And that would be your object?—Yes. 6291. What effect would that have upon consumption here?—I think an increase of price naturally has the effect of retarding the consumption. 6292. You have carefully observed the consumption of sugar from year to year for many 3'ears past; have not you noticed the facility there is in the expansion or the contraction of consumption as prices have risen or fallen ?—Where a very large difference of price has occurred, there has been a large increase in the consumption. 6293. You would expect from an increased price a diminished consumption, or, at all events, a stationary consumption?—For a little time I think our consumption would, notwithstanding, go on increasing. 6294. Do you remember when the British colonies produced much more sugar than we consumed here?—Yes. 6295. What was done with the surplus in those times?—It was exported. 6296. Was there a difference of price between the continental markets and the English markets at that time?—The price of foreign sugar was very high then. 6297. Was there any difference in the price?—I do not know; I should think there could not have been much difference in the price upon that which was exported. 6298. Supposing you were to produce a surplus in the British colonics now, which you would be obliged to export to the Continent of Europe, would not it reduce the price of your sugar to the same level as that of foreign sugar?— No. 6299. Why not?—Not necessarily so ; it would go to increase the stocks; it would have the effect of reducing the price of sugar here, but I think not for some little time, to the level of that on the continent; it would eventually, in the course of a series of years, no doubt. 6300. If you send 10,000 tons of sugar from this market to Rotterdam, must not you take the price that rules in Rotterdam?—I am not obliged to sell my sugar; I may keep it in stock, and that will raise the price here, perhaps, beyond what might be obtained for it on the continent. 6301. What would the ultimate effect be it you accumulated a stock ?—The effect would be that you would probably import rather less, and you might ultimately be driven to export it. 6302. If we import less from the colonies when they are producing more, they must find another market?—Yes. 6303. What

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6303. What other market could they find, except going to the common market Mr. B. B. Greene. of the world ?—None other. 4 March 1848. 6304. What advantage would protection be in that case?—We must take a long period ; the effect now supposed would not be produced immediately, and the production would probably keep pace with the cost of it; it would be governde in a great measure by the profits now made and the probable profits to be made in after years. 6305. Would riot the first effect of the increased price consequent upon the 10s. protection be to increase the production ?—Ultimately it would. 6306. .And very soon?—It would have that tendency. 6307. Would not also the increased number of labourers you are desirous of having have a similar tendency to increase production, not only by their own numbers, but also by rendering more effectual the labour you have at present ?— Yes, and would enable us to produce at a lower cost. 6308. Can you show the Committee any way by which this protection could be rendered of any advantage to the colonies as soon as they produced more than this country consumed?-—If protection continued, there would be an advantage to the colonies, though not to the full extent of the protection given; and I am not sure that after a lapse of some years the British colonies may not be in a condition to produce sugar at a very much cheaper rate than they do now. 6309. Do you think they are likely to produce sugar at a cheaper rate by means of being protected ?—Yes. 6310. How do you expect that?—Because they would have an encouragement to go on and employ capital, and other means ; and if the other remedies which are required were given, they would enable them to produce at a lower cost. 6311. You told the Committee that you had been sending out implements to the West Indies, when you began to apprehend the alteration of the sugar duties? ■—I am not aware of having stated that. I had been sending out implements ever since the year 1838. I then thought it desirable to alter the system of cultivation, in order to facilitate the use of implements, but I did not succeed till 1845. 6312. Have you considered what the effect of the present classification duties is ?—I have thought of it. 6313. Have you found any inconvenience arising from the present classification ?—None whatever. 6314. Perhaps you are not in the habit of importing those kinds of sugar which have particularly come under those classes?—Yes, we have been, and we have had two seizures made; one was a bag of Bengal sugar put on board one of the Mauritius ships, at the Mauritius. We entered it as muscovado sugar, but it proved to be a bag of very white sugar; it was detained by the Customs for a higher duty, and, as a matter of course, we paid it. In another instance we imported a cargo of Brazilian sugar in the " Courier I think about seven tons out of a cargo of 260 were detained by the Customs for a higher duty. We found no practical inconvenience from it; we paid the higher duty, as a matter of course. 6315. You have not been sufficiently in the trade to have had a great number of importations of various qualities, and differences of opinion as to whether this duty should be paid or that duty?—I have seen the working of the classification duties in this very instance ; where sugar comes near to the standard, it requires a discrimination on the part of the custom-house officers to say to which class it belongs; but I conceive that that is just as easily done as it is to value sugar, which the brokers are doing every day. 6316. Do you consider that the custom-house officers are competent to make that fine distinction ?—Generally speaking, in the ports of London and Liverpool, I think they are. 6317. You are not aware that a very serious inconvenience has been felt by Kast importers in passing their sugar?—I think the inconvenience has been one of their own creation; some have been endeavouring to get their sugar out at a low duty, which many of them knew ought to pay a higher duty, and if a man attempts to do that, he will find it a very difficult thing to accomplish ; and so he ought. 6318. You think that those people who have been complaining of this difficulty have themselves to blame for it?--1 do not know who those parties are; I think a great many have. X 0.32. 6319. Have

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Mr. B. B. Greene.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

6319. Have you considered whether it would be desirable to have any arrangement for the importation of syrup ?—I think every facility of that kind should be 4 March 1848. given ; permission should be given to those who thought there was any advantage in it to do so. 6320. Can you recommend any particular measure for the adoption of the Government?—I think syrup sugars, or unclayed sugars, should be admissible in that way. 6321. Where does concrete come from ?—Very little comes here; I believe a little comes from St. Vincents, but that has been more as an experiment than as a reality, on account of their being no fixed duty upon it. 6322. You have shown the Committee particular samples of West India sugar, and you have shown them a sample of foreign sugar, which pavs the same duty; does not it seem a great hardship that this inferior sugar should pay the same duty us that which is much superior ?—Decidedly it does. 6323. Can you suggest any practical mode by which those inequalities could be avoided?—I cannot do it; you should approach as nearly as you can to an ad-valorem duty. 6324. Do you think an ad-valorem duty would be practicable?—I think to a certain extent it would; I think you might make some greater distinctions than you now do ; the standard ought to be lowered. 6325. Do you think if we were to have our refineries put in bond, so that the refiners might purchase their raw material out of the dock, and refine their sugar without paying duty beforehand, but paying duty after it was refined, it would remedy a number of those evils ?—It would partially, perhaps; I am not prepared to say to what extent. 6326. Do you see any reason why it should not do it entirely ?—That requires consideration. 6327. There is no doubt but that these two sugars of different qualities, coming from the same distance, pay the same freight?—Certainly. 6328. Therefore it is practically a higher freight upon the one than upon the other?—To the amount of saccharine matter it contains, certainly. 6329. Excepting that difference of freight which the law cannot interfere with, is there any other conceivable reason why, if the two are taken by a refiner in bond, and he pays the intrinsic value in bond, and then pays duty upon the produce of both in a refined state, there should be any inequality in that arrangement ?— I think that would tend partly to remedy the evil; it requires consideration ; I think it would be a decided advantage. 6330. From the intimate knowledge you have both of the production and importation of sugar, can you suggest any reason why there should remain any inequality if we adopted such a system ?—Merely giving an opinion at the moment, I should say that it would very extensively obviate the difficulty. 6331. With your intimate knowledge of the trade, you cannot, at the present moment, see any inequality that would exist ?—I do not wish to commit myself to a decided opinion, not having given the subject much consideration. There are other sugars which do not pass through the refinery. I think, as far as the particular sugars which pass through the refineries go, it would obviate the difference in the duty. The only thing is, that the refiner makes several qualities besides refined ; namely, pieces, bastards and treacle. 6332. You cannot suggest any better mode of accomplishing the object ?—I think if the duty were fairly and proportionably levied when it came out of the refinery, it would meet on that sugar which is refined the objection which is now made to the difference of the duties imposed upon the two classes of sugar referred to. 6333. Would not that proposition of refining in bond also get over the difficulty suggested as to the importation of syrups and concrete?—Yes. 6334. It would get rid of the difficulty of defining what the duty upon them should be?—Yes. 6335. Would not it be advantageous to the sugar trade, as a trade, that refiners should not lay out so much capital in purchasing a duty-paid article ?—Yes, I think it would. 6336. And so be advantageous generally to the sugar interest?—I think so. 6337. Mr. Miles.] What is the price of labour in St. Kitts?—.The price of labour has been, to the end of last year, at the rate of 1 s. a day. 6338. For how long has that been the rate ?—Since between 1839 and 1841 ; between

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between 1839 and 1841 the residents upon the estates received 81/2d. a day, Mr. B. B. Greene. having their houses rent free, but non-residents were paid Is. 0 1/2 d. In 1845 residents and strangers were paid the same rate of wages, because it was found 4 March 1848. that for several previous years a labourer who resided upon one estate went to work upon others, and vice versâ; and in that way they had none but strangers working, and the planters thought it desirable to put an end to the system, and to give all their labourers the same rate of wages. 6339. Do they charge any rents now ?—In St. Kitts rent is charged, but in some cases it amounts to a very small amount; it is more done for the sake of regularity than anything else. Upon our estate we may receive from 15 l. to 20 I. a year. 6340. Has there been any effort made to reduce the price of wages ?—Yes. 6341. Did it prove successful or unsuccessful ?—They made one unsuccessful attempt; I forget in what year it was, but I think it was in 1844. 6342. Do you know what the result of that was ?—The labourers turned in at their former rate of wages. 6343. How long did the planters stand out?—For some weeks, till they began to find their crop was in danger. 6343. And it has continued at the same rate?—Till last November, when another attempt was made to reduce the rate of wages. The consequence of that attempt was serious. The negroes set fire to one of my fathers estates; they made attempts, I think, for eight or ten days; they also shot at the overseer, and nearly killed him; the ball passed through his hat, and set fire to its lining. The planters have partially succeeded in the island ; but in one part of the island, by the last accounts, the men were still standing out for the former rate of wages. 6345. What number of estates are there in the island ?—I think from 80 to 100 ; I cannot say exactly. 6346. Do you know the amount of the population?—About 21,000 altogether. 6347. Blacks ?—The blacks and the whites. The white population would not exceed, I think, from about 1,000 to 1,200; I am only speaking from memory. Then there is a coloured population besides, amounting to much about the same, or rather more than the whites. 6348. Do you know what proportion of the blacks are agricultural labourers ?— I do not. 6349. Have you any idea?—I cannot say. 6350. Do you want any importation of labourers into St. Kitts:—Yes; we should be very glad of it. 6351. Have you any idea of the number that it would be desirable to introduce?—I cannot say. We have made various attempts at immigration; at one time we sent out a large number of white labourers. We have since sent out some labourers from Madeira, who are doing remarkably well. 6352. Have you had any coolies there at all ?—None. 6353. What do you think the effect will be if you have no relief afforded by Parliament?—The effect will be that a very large portion of the West Indies and of the Mauritius must go out of cultivation. 6354. Confining your attention to St. Kitts, what do you think the effect will he ?—St. Kitts is a small island; the effect will be a reduction upon the cultivation ; I have already given instructions to reduce our cultivation. 6355. Are there many waste lands in St. Kitts ?—No, not very many. 6356. Do you know if there has been much squatting there?—No; the labourers have hired land, and have cultivated that land, but not what is called squatting. 6357. There is no squatting upon the waste land without payment?—I think not. 6358. Has there been any want of vagrancy laws or laws to regulate the labour ? —I think they have not very good contract laws, but in St. Kitts there are no vagrants. 6359. It has been simply the refusal of the labourer to accept a lower rate of wages that has prevented him from working?—His necessities do not compel him to work very long, having this land of his own to cultivate; two or three days' work a week are quite sufficient to enable him to obtain all he requires. 6360. Supposing a large number of estates are thrown out of employment of course there will be a great want of employment for a great part of the agricultural population; do you suppose they will consent to live quietly upon their x 2 0.32. lands,

156

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Mr. B. B. Greene. lands, or will they become demoralized ?—I think it would tend to their demo4 March 1848.

ralization ; the estates that did continue in cultivation might be partially benefited by the cessation of the other properties ; but in most cases the abandoned estates would be either let or sold to those negroes, who would thus be occupied upon their own lands, and would not give their labour to the existing estates. 6361. Do you think those planters who remained would be able to effect a reduction in the wages?—They might to a very small extent; they are now making an attempt at a reduction ; I think, however, they will not succeed in going much lower ; I think the labourers are too independent to work at very low wages. 6362. You think nothing but an extensive immigration will have the effect of reducing the wages?—Wages might be partially reduced if half the island were to go out of cultivation ; I think the other estates perhaps would divide, or nearly so, the difference between them; they would then have more continuous labour probably than now exists. 6363. You have already introduced a great quantity of agricultural implements ; do you think that is capable of being extended any further ?—Though the use of them is very general, they might, perhaps, be more extensivelv used than they are ; on some estates they are used almost as much as they can be. 6364. You do not think there is any hope of reduction in the amount of labour ; by a further extension of implements ?—I think to some extent it may be the case if people have courage to go on. 6365. But you do not think anybody will have that courage?—I do not find any one sufficiently sanguine to go on. 6366. You say you have already sent out orders to abandon the cultivation of your estate?—To reduce the cultivation ; I cannot say I have yet ordered the estates in the West Indies to be abandoned, but I have ordered the cultivation to be reduced, and it will be very materially reduced. 6367. In what way will it be reduced ?—Instead of planting 100 acres we shall plant only 70 or 75, as the case may be. 6368. How long does the cane go on ratooning in St. Kitts ?—Not successfully at all, except in very few instances; they should be all plants, but they have been driven to adopt the use of ratoons as a saving of labour ; but their returns are not equal to the expense ; they have been able to plant more since they have had those implements. 6369. Do you suffer in that island from the amount of taxes?—No, not very much ; I think we pay from 3001, to 500 I. a year on those estates. 6370. Have there been any immigrants introduced from any of the other islands ?—No, the immigration has been the other way, from St. Kitts to Trinidad. 6371. The tendency has been to decrease your amount of labour?—Yes. 6372. Lord G. Manners.] You were proceeding just now to institute a comparison between the increased cost of production in Cuba and the Mauritius?— In 1840 the Mauritius exported 34,500 tons; in 1841, 38,500 tons; in 1842, 44,300; in 1843,26,500; in 1844, 34,900; in 1845, 42,097. To 1844 from 1836, the range is about 33,000, except in 1843, which was a very small year; but in 1845 it rose to 42,000 tons, and in 1846 to 62,667 tons. The crop of 1847 we do not know, but we apprehend it will be shorter than the last by 8,000 or 10,000 tons. 6372*. So that it about doubled itself in three years ?—Yes. 6373. What is the case with Cuba ?—Cuba has been more progressive. In 1831 Havannah and Mantanzas exported 80,500 tons ; in 1836 they exported 100,000 tons ; in 1838, 122,000 tons ; in the year 1840, 141,500 tons. Then in 1844 they produced 171,000 tons; in the year 1845 there was a reduction, in consequence of the extreme drought and the hurricane, to 73,000 ; but notwithstanding that they rose the next year to 162,000, and in 1847 to 203,000; so that the production of Cuba has been progressing ever since 1831. The total export of Cuba last year was 265,000 tons. In the coming year they are expecting to have 280,000 tons. 6374. Chairman.J What is the price of sugar at Havre, as compared with London ?—-The last price of French colonial sugar was about 56 francs, or 45 s. per cwt.; that was a week or 10 days ago. 6375. Mr. Miles.] What quality was that?—I do not know exactly the quality. i 6376. You

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6376. You do not know whether it was the highest or the lowest?—It was not Mr. B. B. Greene. the highest; it was the general run of sugar from Martinique, Guadaloupe and Bourbon. I have not heard of any sales of Bourbon sugar at Havre, but 4 March 1848. Martinique and Guadaloupe, which are very similar in quality, have been selling at 56 francs per fifty kilogrammes, duty paid. The result is that the duty being 15s. 5 d., they therefore get 29s. 7d. short price per cwt, 6377. Chairman.] What would be the value of the same description of sugar in the London market?—Mauritius sugar would be worth in the London market 24s. 6378. Therefore the Mauritius sugar would have been sold for 5s. Id. less in the London market than it would have done at Havre on the same day ?—Yes, and that 24s. includes our protection; what is called the 6?.; therefore in 1851 the Mauritius would be placed in a eisadvantage to Bourbon to such an extent, if this protection were a real protection of 6s., as would make a difference of 11s. 7d. 6379. The Mauritius colonists would get 61, a ton more for their sugar?—If this were a protection of 6s., there would be a difference of lis. 7d. per cwt. to Bourbon, which they would receive more for their sugar in 1851 than the Mauritius; if you take it upon the last crop, it makes a difference of 600,000l. upon that small island. 6380. Sir Edward Buxton asked you whether under slavery the British colonies could compete with Cuba ; is not it the fact that they did compete with 50,000 tons of sugar here ?—They did compete at that time ; but I do not think slavery as it existed in the British colonies within three or four years of its termination could compete with the slave-trade production of Cuba; they got their labourers much cheaper than we could rear them. I think the slavery in the Btitish West Indies would make sugar more costly than in Cuba.

Luna;, 6" die Martii, 1848. MEMBERS PRESENT:

Lord George Bentinck. Sir Edward Buxton. Mr. Cardwell. Mr. Milner Gibson. Mr. Goulburn. Mr. Hope.

Mr. Matheson. Mr. Miles. Lord John Manners. Mr. Villiers. Mr. Wilson.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK, IN THE CHAIR.

Mr. Frederick Morton, called in ; and Examined. 6381. Chairman.] WILL you state to the Committee the nature of your connexion with the West Indies ?—I am a West India agent. 6382. You have no property of your own in the West Indies?—No, not more than one estate ; we were obliged to take one estate. 6383. You have been resident in the West Indies, have you not ?—I have been three times in the West Indies, in Jamaica. 6384. At what periods were you in Jamaica? —In 1819, 1827 and 1834. I have not been there since 1834. 6385. Will you state to the Committee what has been the comparative success, in a commercial point of view, of the cultivation of sugar plantations under slavery, under apprenticeship, and latterly under freedom ?—It was generally successful under slavery, and comparatively so under apprenticeship, and latterly, these last tw o years, our hopes have been most materially altered for the worse, and at the present moment we are almost in a ruinous state; I should say generally. 6386. Have you any accounts or proofs to give?—I have not brought any accounts. 6387. How many estates are you agent for ?—I think 34; we had consignments from 34 estates from Jamaica. x3 6388. In 0.32.

Mr, F. Morton. 6 March 1848.

158

Mr. F. Morton. 6 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

6388. In what year ?—Last year. 6389. Can you state generally off-hand what were the proceeds of those 34 estates latterly, in apprenticeship and during slavery ?—I cannot say that; we had not the consignments during slavery of a great many of them. 6390. What have been the proceeds of these 34 estates in the last year? — I think the proceeds received in sugar have been about 4,200 hogsheads, but we have not accounts of the working of the whole ; a great many belong to resident proprietors, of which we have really no accurate accounts. 6391. Mr. Miles.] You merely sell the sugar on consignment?—Exactly. 6392. Chairman.] Then you cannot go into details with regard to free labour or slavery?—No, I think not. 6393. Can you give any particular information to the Committee ?—No, I apprehend not more than you have had from other parties. 6394. Not as regards free immigration ?—I have a strong feeling on those points generally. 6395. But you are not able to go into any detail ?—We really have had no immigration in Jamaica to speak of beyond a few Coolies, and here and there a few Africans. 6396. Mr. Miles."] Can you state what your correspondents have written to you, or what they have asked by way of relief from the English Government?—The chief burden of their request has been immigration and protection to them, as the only hope they have of carrying on the cultivation successfully. 0397. Have you sent out many agricultural implements to the colonies ?— Nothing but ploughs and harrows. 6398. Have you sent out many of those ?—A great many ploughs. 6399. Have you any idea what your correspondents intend to do with their estates ; do they state that they intend to abandon their cultivation, or do they say that they are able successfully to compete with foreign slave labour?—We have now nine estates that are in the course of abandonment, if they cannot be let within a certain time after the present canes are taken off. 6400. Have you any prospect of their being let; when were the orders sent out?—I think the orders were sent out in November last. 6401. Have you had any answer to the advertisement of their being to let?— Yes, one estate is let. 6402. Is there any information about the others?—We have no hope of letting the others; they are taking off the canes. 6403. Can you state what the proceeds of those nine estates were?—About 100 hogsheads from each, or a little more. 6404. 'J here will be left then about 25 estates from which you receive consignments ; do you apprehend that many of those will be continued in cultivation ? — Under the present circumstances I do not apprehend that more than 10 or 12 out of the whole number can be successfully carried on. 6405. What reason have you for imagining that those 10 or 12 can be successfully carried on ?—They are a better class of estates; they have considerable advantages as to soil and water-power, and so on. 6406. When you say successully carried on, do you mean against foreign free labour, or foreign slave labour?—I merely mean that most likely they will pay their expenses against the competition of sugar generally. 6407. Do you think that they will do more than pay their expenses?—I think one or two of them may on the average ; I mean that we shall attempt to carry on those 10 or 12 estates at all events. 6408. But you do not think you will attempt to carry on more than 10 or 12 out of the whole number ?—No. 6409. Have you any other estates in any other island ?—One in St. Kitts. 6410. Do you imagine that will be carried on ?—I can hardly say ; our advice is discouraging. 6411. Have you ever turned your attention to the removal of the restrictions on the West Indies, such as allowing the proprietors to refine in bond, on reducing the duty on rum from 9d., so as to put the planters on an equality with the distillers ?—Certainly. 6412. What is your opinion of refining in bond ?—I cannot see that under the differential duties it can be successfully carried out?—I think the refiners will only embark in business if they can have a choice of all sugars; I doubt whether they will confine themselves to British sugars. 6413. But

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6413. But the refiners who now refine in bond at present use entirely slave sugar or colonial sugar ?—Yes. 6414. You do not think they would attempt each separately for consumption ? —No, I should doubt it. 6415. Do you not think that there is a sufficient variety of sugar of colonial growth to make it worth their while to refine that alone for home consumption ? —-It would depend so much on the value. 6416. Do you think that if the proprietors were to be allowed to refine in bond, they would have to undertake it on their own part ?—I think in a small way refiners might perhaps refine British sugars in bond, and especially syrup, if it were followed to any extent. 6417. But you think practically it would be no great benefit to the West Indies?—I think everything that produces competition in trade in general must be beneficial to the West Indies. 6418. Do you imagine that it is possible to bring cane-juice from the West Indies ?—I do not think the attempts have been very successful as yet; we have tried it, and have failed ; we have found too much acidity. 6419. Have you ever attempted to bring it in a solid state?—No, we have never tried it. 6420. Do you know anybody who has tried it ?—No, I do not think I have seen any from the West Indies. 6421. Can you give any opinion as to the reduction of the duty on rum ?—Of course we are looking for that very anxiously ; we cannot but believe that 9 d. is far more than any protection that the distillers are entitled to; the price of their spirits may now be, I suppose, half-a-crown a gallon, and 9d. strikes us as being very considerably more than they ought to have. Taking it in an extreme point of view, we cannot make out more than 2 d. as far as the malt duty is concerned; we cannot make it even as much as 2d. by any calculation. 6422. Have you got any data on which you form this calculation ?—No, I have not brought any data. 6423. You think if the duty was put at 2d. you would be put on an equality with the distillers in this country ?—If they are to have an allowance for the malt duty that is paid, I fancy that 2d. is the outside allowance that they ought to have. 6424. That would be a fair equivalent?—Yes. 6425. Then you think that the duty on rum might be reduced very safely to 2d. a gallon ?—It may be a question whether the distillers are entitled to any other compensation in respect of the restrictions that are put on the trade by Government; but we do not see that they are. 6426. Then 2d. applies entirely to the malt duty ?—Yes; and more particularly in Scotland. 6427. Have you any suggestion to make with regard to the classification of duties?—No, I have not.

Mr. F. Morton. 6 March 1848.

Mr. Thomas Dickon, called in ; and Examined. 6428. Chairman.] YOU are a Lincolnshire man?—Yes. 6428*. And you were an agriculturist in Lincolnshire before you went out some years ago to the West Indies ?—I was a little more than a year in Jamaica, and I was a farmer in Lincolnshire before I went out. 6429. I believe you went out to teach the people of Jamaica the English mode •of agriculture ?—Not exactly that; at least I did not expect that. I went to take charge of some properties that were at that time expected to be bought. 6430. It was Mr. Smith's property, was it not?—It was the property of a •company. 6431. How many shareholders were there in that company?—I never knew how many there were. 6432. The company was represented by Mr. Smith ?—Yes; he was the only director in Jamaica. 6433. Who were the parties in this country?—There are several in Liverpool. Mr. Joseph Ewart is one of the shareholders, and, I believe, one of the Board ; and Mr. Rathbone ; but I do not know any other names. 6434. Who was responsible to you?—Mr. Smith, as one of the directors; he was residing in Jamaica. 0.32. 6435. But x4

Mr. T. Dickon.

160 Mr. T. Dickon.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

6435. But in this country who was responsible to you; who sent you out?— I was engaged by the Board of Directors of the company. 6 March 1 848. 6436. Where did they sit?—-In Liverpool. 6437. What number of acres had the company ?—They only bought one estate, and they rented another ; and Mr. Smith, when he got out to Jamaica, from some cause or other, I do not know what, would not buy any more land. 6438. What was the extent of that estate ?—The whole extent of acres was about 2,500, but there were not more than 200 to 250 acres in cane cultivation ; that was one estate. 6439. I" what year was it you went out to Jamaica?—I went out in 1845 at first, and I returned and went out again in 1846. 6440. The intention was that you should carry out with you all the agricultural improvements known in England ?—It was our intention to do that when we went out; to cultivate the land, if we thought it was advisable to do so, and to prepare it. 6441. Do you know what the capital of the company was ?—I do not know what the paid-up capital was, but they professed to have 200,000 /. when it was all paid up. 6442. It was not, I presume, all paid up?—I do not know, but I think not. 6443. Do you know how many calls were paid ?—Only one, I think. 6444. What were the calls?—£. 3. 10s. 6445. How many shares were there in the company ?—I do not know ; I suppose about 4,000 shares. I am not exactly acquainted with it. 6446. Do you know what the shares were ; were thev 20 /. shares ?—I think they were. 6447. Do you know how it was that one call only was paid up?—I suppose it was owing to Mr. Smith ; when he got out to Jamaica he would not allow any other properties to be bought. 6448. Was that because it was found to be a losing concern?—I do not know ; I had been in Jamaica only about two months ; Mr. Smith had been there about two weeks. I might have been nine weeks, in October, perhaps, not more. 6449. Did you find unexpected difficulties when you got there ? —No more than I expected before I went; I had been before and seen what the country was. 6450. You are now speaking of your second visit?—Yes; the second time I went I went to take charge of the properties. 6451. Can you state to the Committee what the results of your cultivation of the estates were, as far as the profit and loss goes of the crop ? —So far as we went it was very little. I only reaped one crop ; I had charge of the properties only one year. 6452. How many hogsheads of sugar did you make?—On the two properties we made near 200 hogsheads. 6453. What was the cost of cultivation ?—What we expended would be about 4,000l. altogether. But we cleared a quantity of wood land, which we planted with sugar. 6454. Do the 4,000 l. include all labour and the supplies from England?— No, I am not speaking of the supplies from England. 6455. What did the supplies cost ?— I do not know ; they were sent out. 6456. They were under a separate head ?-—Yes. 6457. Then you do not know what were the salaries of the white people upon the estates besides that 4,000l. ?—Yes, I know what they were. 6458. They were not included in the 4,000/. ? —No ; they would be 1,000/. more. 6459. You cannot give any notion of what the supplies cost?—No, I do not know what the supplies cost. 6460. Do you know what the estate cost ?—It cost 5,050/. I believe. 6461. Mr. Matheson. ] Was that the estate of 2,500 acres that you spoke of? —Yes. 6462. Mr. Cardwell.] Were the other acres capable of being put in sugar cultivation, or were they rough?—It was all rough land, the greater part mountain land, not capable of cultivation ; it was rock land. 6463. So that the price was practically paid for a much smaller number of acres ?—Yes. 6464. Can

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6464. Can you state what number?—Not exactly; but I dare say in pasture and so forth, it would be 600 acres. 6465. Six hundred acres that might have been turned into sugar cultivation? —No, not into sugar cultivation, but into pasture and sugar cultivation. 6466. How much of that would be land that might be used for sugar cultivation ?—Three hundred acres, or perhaps rather more than that. 6467. Chairman.'] Do the Committee understand you to say that there were 600 acres capable of cultivation upon one estate or two estates ?—Upon one estate ; I am speaking of only one estate. 6468. How many acres were there capable of cultivation upon the other estate ? —About the same quantity clear of the woodland. 6469. So that there were 1,200 acres altogether ?—Yes ; one estate was bought, the other was only rented. 6470. What was the rent paid for the estate that was rented?—£.400 per annum, I believe. 6471. Does this expenditure in labour of 4,000 I. cover the expenditure upon both estates ?—Yes. 6472. And the salaries of the white people, which you guess at about 1,000 l., apply to the two estates ?—Yes. 6473. Would this include your own salary?—No, it would not. I refer to the book-keepers and overseers and so forth. 6474.. What was your salary ?—I was to have 1,000 I. a year. When I went out we were to have 20 more estates ; but when Mr. Smith landed, he would not allow any more properties to be bought. 6475. So that, without taking into account the supplies, the expenditure amounted to 6,730 I. a year; do you know what were the proceeds of the 200 hogsheads of sugar?—No, I do not; the sugar was sent to England, and I know nothing further about it. 6476. Your hogsheads contain about 16 cwt. ?—They would be from 17 to 18 cwt.; they were large hogsheads. 6477. That was the cwt. of the island?—I never knew what they weighed here; sometimes they weigh 20 and 2l cwt. on the island; they would average more than 18 there; what they would average here I do not know. 6478. You are not able to form any notion of the cost of the supplies?—No, I am not. 6479. When you got out to Jamaica, did you find that the habitual cultivation of the estates admitted of any very great improvement ?—The land wants preparing and cleaning for a longer time before it is used. I think there might be an improvement there. 6480. For that purpose you want more labour, do you not ?—I should do that by the plough. 6481. Mr. Miles.] Was it good sugar that you made?—Yes. 6482. Did it sell for a high price in this country ?—I dare say it was a fair price, but I never knew what it sold for. 6483. Chairman.] If you got 15/. a hogshead you would be losing upon that expenditure, and with the. interest of money and rent paid, very nearly 15/. a hogshead ?—I do not know what it was sold for, but I think the produce would be somewhat increased this year; of course that was what we entered upon ; it was all ready for cutting when we entered upon it. 6484. When you left, what was the promise of the crop for the ensuing year; how many hogsheads did it appear likely to yield ? —I fancied that we should have from 250 to 300 hogsheads. 6485. Mr. Miles.] On both estates ?—Yes. 6486. Chairman.] But still with such a crop as that it would not have paid its expenses ?—We never did anything by implements scarcely ; all we did, and all we could do, was by manual labour. 6487. Why did you not avail yourselves of the implements you took out with you ?—We never had the means given us. 6488. Was that from want of money ?—I do not know what it was from; we had always money to pay the wages of the people, but we never had the means to use the implements as we ought to have done ; we had not sufficient stock to work the implements with. 6489. You mean cattle?—Yes. 6490. Was the estate very short of cattle?—Yes. 0.32. Y 6491. Mr-

559 Mr. T. Dickon. 6 March 1848.

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6491. Mr. Miles.] Will you state what number of cattle you had on each estate?—Upon one estate we had 120, and upon the other from 70 to perhaps 80 6 March 1848. working cattle. 6492. How many mules had you ?—Eighteen mules upon the two estates ; they were 10 and eight. 6493. Chairman.] To work the estate properly, how many cattle and mules would have been required ?—To have worked it well, twice as many, I should say. 6494. What further outlay of capital would that have required; what do you imagine the price of a working ox would have been ?—From 10l. to 12 l. 6495. That, then, would have required an outlay of from 2,000 /. to 2,400 /. more ?—Yes. 6496. What wages did you pay the people working on the estates ?—From 1 s. to 2 s. a day. 6497. What sort of day's labour was it?—It was not a very good one. 6498. How many hours did they work ?—From six, or a little after, to two, on the average ; not more than that. 6499. Mr. Miles.] Without intermission ?—No, with perhaps an hour's intermission. 6500. Chairman.] Did they come punctually at six o'clock?—Perhaps it would be from six to half-past six ; they were tolerably punctual at that time, and quite as punctual in returning. 6501. Whilst they were at work did they work very hard ?—No, not by any means; we used sometimes to let them the work by the job when we could, but they were not very ready to do it in that way. 6502. Did they object to taskwork ?—Yes, except at a very high price. 6503. By taskwork you mean, that you set them to dig cane-holes, for instance ?—Yes. 6504. How many cane-holes would they dig or hoe in a day?—Perhaps 100, a man would do ; but a good deal depends on the state of the soil at the time. 6505. What had you to pay for those 100 cane-holes ?—From 2 s. to 2 s. 6 d. 6506. As far as continuous work was concerned, did they attend regularly every day in the week, or only three or four days in the week ?—Three or four days in the week ; seldom more than five ; sometimes they would attend five. 6507. And perhaps sometimes less than three?—Yes. 6508. Averaging, perhaps, between three and four days a week ?—Yes, perhaps so. 6509. How were they in crop time ; could you rely upon them to come and gather in the crop ?—No. 6510. Were you subject to any great losses in consequence ?—In the season that I was there I do not think we had much loss from that, but I think they are sometimes subject to very serious losses, because you cannot induce them to come to work for you if it suits them to work on their own grounds. 6511. That is to say, if there is a shower of rain they will stay and work on their own grounds?—Yes. 6512. And that same shower of rain would make it desirable to have them working in the cane-field ?—Yes; when the season suits them, it suits us for planting, and so on. 6513. Therefore the result is, that you lose the labour just when you want it most?—Yes; you cannot depend upon having it when you want it. 6514. Could not you get labourers by paying them higher wages?—No, I do not think you could at that time tempt them with giving them high wages. 6515. It is not very easy to tempt them to work long hours for high wages?—• No, it is not. ,6516. How do you account for that?—They are independent by reason of having their own grounds and provisions to sell at a high price ; they have all the provision market to themselves ; very few planters have provisions to sell; I do not know of one. 6517. Do they make a great profit of their provisions?—Yes, no doubt of it. 6518. Can you suggest any means by which those labourers could be made more industrious, and more disposed to work continuously on the sugar plantations ? Yes; the means that I should suggest would be, the planters growing provisions. 6519. Can you form any judgment of the average annual profit that a labourer makes of his provision-ground?—No, I am not able to answer that question. I think

Mr. T. Did on.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 163 I think the planters ought to use all the means in their power to cheapen the price of the ground provisions in the country. 6520. When you speak of provisions, what do you mean?—Yams, cocoas, and plantains, and all other ground provisions. 6521. Which, in that country, constitute the greengrocery of the provision market?—Yes, similar to potatoes and greens here. 6522. Are they not the general food of the inhabitants of the island?—They are nine-tenths of the food of the working classes, with the exception of a little salt provision, and goats, poultry, and so forth, which they also keep. 6523. Do you imagine that if the planters were to set up rival provisiongrounds they could drive those labourers out of the market, and so force them to apply themselves to the cultivation of the cane-fields?—I think so. I think if the provisions were cheaper in the country, the people would not have that resource to fly to for subsistence which they now have, if the planters could sell the provisions at half the price that they are now selling at, or perhaps less than that. 6524. Flow would the planters get the provision-grounds cultivated?—With the same labour that they have now for the sugar-cane. 6525. But they are short-handed as it is in the cultivation of the sugar-cane? —'I hey had better grow an acre of provisions than an acre of sugar-cane, for they can make more profit by it. 6,526. Do you think they could make more profit by an acre of provisionground than by an acre of sugar-cane?—Yes, according to the present price, much more. 6527. According to the prices which existed when you were in the island ?—• Yes; according to the prices then existing, they might make considerably more of an acre of ground provisions than of an acre of sugar-cane. 6528. Do you think that the labourers would come to cultivate provisions?— 1 do not think they would so readily cultivate them as the sugar-cane. 6529. Would they feel that it was in rivalry with themselves?—Yes. 6530. Then practically, perhaps, there would be great, difficulty in the planters becoming provision growers?—Yes, I dare say they would have some trouble in that w ay; but I think that might be got over. 6531. You said that there were improvements that could be made in cleaning the land previous to putting in the canes ; are there any other improvements that you think could be introduced beyond those which are already adopted in Jamaica ?—There are several things that might be done; but the great thing is to prepare any land that is worn out before it is again planted ; that would be the great means of improving the land. 6532. By cleaning it and manuring it ?—Yes. 6533. Are there facilities for obtaining manure in Jamaica?—The present facilities are as good as any, I should say; that is, manuring the land by penning the cattle, or else keeping the cattle at home, and making manure at home ; but of course that would require much more labour than they have to spare for it. 6534. Comparing 2s. Gd. in Jamaica with 2s. Gd. in Lincolnshire, are 2s. 6d. in Jamaica very much higher than 2 s. G d. in Lincolnshire, as far as the comfort of the labourer is concerned?—The labourer in Jamaica can live better on 2 s. 6d. than the labourer in Lincolnshire, or anywhere else in this country, on 2s. 6d. 6535. Is the labourer in Jamaica twice as well off on 2 s. G d. as the labourer in this country on 2 s. 6d. ?—I think he is; because he has the means, by cultivating his own provision-grounds, of increasing his supplies. 6536. Does his provision-ground very nearly sustain his family ?—I should say so, in the majority of cases. 6537. And perhaps it leaves him some profit beside?—I do not know that; but I should say in the majority of cases it would sustain the family. 6,538. What rent do the labourers generally pay for their provision-grounds?— In some instances I think they pay 20s. an acre; but they buy the land in the first instance for a very low price generally. 6539. Then, generally speaking, they are freeholders, as far as you know? Yes. 6,540. Do you think that it is for the interest of the planters that they should be freeholders, or do you think it would be more for the interest of the planters thatthey should occupy land at a rent?—I think it would be more to the y 2 0.32. interest

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164MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

interest of the planters that they should occupy land at a rent, and also that the planters should become provision growers themselves, in order to reduce the price 6 March 1848. of provisions, so that the labourers should not have the entire market in their hands; it is like the farmers here giving the labourers the potato market, and never trying to compete against them ; that is the opinion I form of it. 6541. You think that it conduces to indolence on the part of the negroes?—• Yes ; they have the means of subsistence on their own plots of ground, and therefore they will not come to me to work for me as a planter unless I will give them short work or high wages to induce them to work, and then they will only work when it suits them, and not when it suits me. 6542. Comparing the labour of the black in Jamaica with the labour of the Lincolnshire labourer, which does the most work?—The Lincolnshire labourer does more than twice as much work for the same money. 6543. At the same time you think that half-a-crown in Jamaica is worth twice as much as half-a-crown in Lincolnshire ?—The labourers have more comforts in Jamaica than the labourers have here. 6544. So that, in point of fact, in proportion to the work done, and the money paid, the black in Jamaica is four times as well off as the labourer of Lincolnshire?—The labourers of Lincolnshire have not ground, and they cannot have the same means of obtaining garden-ground as the labourers in Jamaica have of obtaining provision-grounds in this country; they have high rents to pay, and they cannot make the same of their produce as they can in Jamaica. 6545. And they are obliged to Avork twice as hard to get the same money ?— Yes; agricultural labourers here do twice the work for the same money; and they also give that labour when the master wants it, which is a very great thing. 6546. Do the blacks take for themselves any holidays that they like?—Yes, very frequently. 6547. At what periods of the year?—More particularly at Christmas and August. 6548. August is not a very important period of the year, is it ?—Not quite so much so as Christmas. 6549. At Christmas you are just beginning the new crop?—Yes. 6550. You manufactured the sugar, of course, as well as cultivated the canes ? —Yes. 6551. Does it occur to you that any great improvement might be made in the manufacture of sugar by means of machinery, or by any different arrangement, such as instituting central factories for grinding the canes ?—I am no advocate for central factories , I think they cannot be carried out to advantage, inasmuch as you want such an immense weight of cane for a small quantity of sugar; and to carry it a great distance ; that is to say, if you had three or four estates to one manufactory, it would not answer. 6552. Therefore, in point of fact, the notion of central factories for grinding the sugar-cane, as here you have central flour-mills, is perfectly impracticable?— I fear it is ; that is my opinion. 6553. And there would be great difficulty, as all the canes come ripe at the same time, in getting them all ground at one mill ?—Yes; there is only a certain time to do it in. 6554. As far as drainage goes, did you see that there were any great improvements to be made ?—In some situations, no doubt there are. 6555. But as a general rule, are there great improvements to be made?— Yes; I think -in the majority of cases there are improvements to be made by draining. •6556. And improvements to be made at a cost which would repay itself?—Not with the present labourers; I think that the planters have no business to incur such a risk with the present labourers. 6557. That is at the price of the present labourers?—Yes. 6558. Do you think that anything is to be done by substituting the spade for the plough ?—No, I think nothing can be better than the plough. Where the plough can be used ?—Yes, ploughing and preparing the land some time before the land is wanted ; I think there is nothing better than that. 6560. But on your estates you ought to have laid out 3,000l. or 4,000/. more in cattle:—Yes ; you cannot work the land properly without cattle ; and then it becomes a question which is cheapest, cattle labour or manual labour. Mr. T. Dickon.

6561. Is

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

165

6561. Is cattle labour very decidedly cheaper ?—That depended upon the price you have to pay for cattle in that country ; the price is very high, and it requires a very large number of cattle to work the implements ; but still, I think, it is to be done to advantage. 6562. But you think it is a nice question which is cheapest?—Yes; it is perhaps a nice question which is the cheapest. 6563. You think it is a nice question which is the cheapest, the cultivation of plantations, even at the present high price of uncertain manual labour, or cattle, at the high price which cattle fetch in that country, and the great number of cattle required to draw the ploughs ?—There is a difference on the different estates ; some estates are better adapted for cattle labour, and I think on some it would not be advisable to use cattle ; in fact, they cannot use cattle to plough with. 6564. Are there a good many estates where stones and rocks are interspersed, and where it would be undesirable to use the plough ?—'Yes ; of course you could not use agricultural implements on those stony soils. 6565. As far as the manufacture of sugar is concerned in the way of mills and vacuum pans, and so on, is any very great improvement to be made ?—I am not able to speak as to vacuum pans, and so forth, but I think the plan of having central factories would not be attended with much advantage. 6566.. Is there much to be done in the way of tramroads and railroads ?—I am not an advocate for either the one or the other. 6567. You do not think it would pay ?—No, I do not. 6568. The cost would be greater than it was worth?—Yes ; and you cannot have a tramway without having also labour to carry the produce to the tramway, and then you might as well bring the produce to the mill as to the tramway; that is my idea. 6569. When you have a tramway, there are two cartings to be done instead of one ?—Yes. 6570. You cannot have a tramroad every 500 or 000 yards ?—Of course you cannot have a tramroad convenient to every place in your cane-fields. If you have 200 acres of cane-field, unless it runs in a long strip, you cannot have the tramway convenient for all; and then you have two cartings, and that would be more trouble in some instances than carrying it to the mill at once. 6571. If you have no tramroad, you take the cart up to the cane just as you take it to a haycock or a stoop of corn in this country ?—Yes, just in the same way. 6572. I suppose having a tramway in such a case would be very much like having a tramway in a wood, in order to convey the timber?—Yes, the timber would have to be removed a long distance to it. I think a tramway is not adapted to any estate, unless it is a long strip of land, so that you have it very near to the tramway on both sides. 6573. Did you think that anything was to be done in the way of immigration with Coolies in Jamaica?—I fancy Coolie labourers will not do at all; they are very poor labourers, particularly the Madras people. I think the Africans, from what I have seen of them, would be desirable labourers to have. 6574. Are the Coolies small men?—Yes, very small, diminutive; and they appear to have no desire to learn. The Madras Coolies, I should say, are very much worse than the Calcutta Coolies, from what I have seen of them. 6575. You look upon them as a very inferior people altogether ?—Yes; and they are a class that do not appear to mix at all with the present labourers ; in fact, there are several castes among them, and they will not mix with one another. 6576. And that is found practically inconvenient?—Yes. 6577. You cannot get them to work in the same gang ?—Yes, they will work in the same gang, but when they get home they will not mix together; they stand aloof from each other, even the Calcutta and Madras people ; they will not victual together. 6578. You find the Africans a very different class of people?—Yes, they are stouter and more muscular, and they mix with the present labourers. 6579. Comparing the African with the Madras or Calcutta Cooly, what is the proportion of labour that the two would do ?—The Africans are generally able to do more, and they work more willingly ; the Coolies appear not to have a wish to do much; they are diminutive, many of them; there arc some few amongst them that do pretty well. 0.32.

Y 3

6580. In

563 Mr. T. Dickon.

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

6580. In respect of health, are they as healthy as the others?—From what I saw of them I should say that they were very sickly, and not able to work for some time after they come into the country. 6581. Did you ever see anything of the Portuguese or Madeira people in Jamaica ?—No, I had never anything to do with the Portuguese there. 6582. Or with any Europeans, except as overlookers ?—One or two I had to do with, but none that I can speak to as to their capacities ; but I fancy that they could not work in Jamaica, on account of the heat; they cannot labour as well as Africans can. 6583. Were those Africans that you are now speaking of, Africans that had been lately liberated ?—Yes, they had been brought into the country, but how they came into the country I am not aware; we had several about us that used to come to work. 6584. Could they speak English ?—No; I could not understand them very well myself. 6585. Notwithstanding that, there was no difficulty in getting on with them ? —No. 6586. Who was interpreter between you and them?—A book-keeper that we had ; he could generally make them understand very well; and they mixed with the other negroes. 6587. The old negroes can speak nothing but English, can they ?—I do not know, but I could not understand them; what language they spoke I do not know. 6588. Those newly imported Africans and the old negroes could understand one another ?—They worked together, and understood one another for anything I know. 6589. Were you able to learn from those newly imported Africans whether there would be any difficulty in getting others to come to Jamaica ?—No, I did not ask the question of them. 6590. Is the result of your acquaintance with Jamaica such that you do not think that it holds out any very great prospect, at the present prices, of profitable cultivation ?—No, I do not think it holds out a prospect of much profit at present. 6591. You would not like to go back again on your own account?—No, I should not go back on my own account, though I like Jamaica very well, and I should not have returned home if it had suited my wife's health ; I should have stopped there ; there are estates in Jamaica that will do very well, I think. 6592. Which are they ?—Some of the sugar estates will do very well; but, according to the present prices, the breeding pens are the best estates to cultivate now. 6593. But I presume the breeding pens are profitable now on account of the great demand for cattle ?—Yes ; the present prices of cattle are very high. 6594. But if half the sugar estates in Jamaica went out of cultivation, the cattle would fall in price?—Yes, I expect they would. 6595. Then breeding pens would be less profitable ?—Of course they would. 6596. Do you think that if half the estates in Jamaica go out of cultivation, the other half will be able to get labour at half-price ?—So long as they can obtain the present prices for their provisions, they will never work for less, while they have the means of living without it; but if the price of provisions came very low, they would be obliged to look to something else for subsistence, and they would be willing to work for less. 6597. Do you think that their nature is such that they would ever work very hard for low wages? — I do not think they will ever work very hard for either high or low wages. 6598. They would prefer squatting and living upon their provision-grounds? —'Yes. 6599. There is no possibility in Jamaica of putting an end to squatting, is there? —I suppose not. 6600. There is great facility for purchasing land at a cheap sum ?—Yes. 6601. And if half of the estates in Jamaica were to be thrown out of cultivation, of course the land would be purchased cheaper still ?—Yes, I suppose it would be purchased at very low prices, considerably below what it is now. 6602. At what price would an acre of good provision-ground be purchased ?—• At from 3 l. to 5 I. an acre. 6603. And

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 167 6603. And that acre will support a man and his entire family ?—Yes, after it is once in cultivation. 6604. And with a very few days' labour ?—At the commencement they have a good deal of labour; they have the wood to cut in order to clear the ground and plant, but after it is established it will do for some time with very little labour. 6605. For example, plantains last for a good many years ?—Yes. 6606. And yams ?—Yams require planting frequently, but it is very little labour after the first commencement. 6607. Do they grow many potatoes ?—No, not many potatoes. 6608. What other provisions do they grow besides plantains, and yams, and a few potatoes ?—Cocoa and casadas, and several different sort of greens. 6609. any of those freeholders grow sugar-cane on their own account ?— Yes. 6610. To any extent?—Not to a large extent, but they sell it among themselves ; some of them will have, perhaps, half an acre of sugar-cane, or a small plot of sugar-cane which they make into syrup, and sell. 6611. Where do they get their sugar-canes ground ?—They grind them with a small hand mill. They have small mills all over the country that they can turn by hand ; two or three of them assist each other in grinding the canes, and they sell the syrup. 6612. Do they do a good business in that way ?—I have no doubt that it pays them very well. 6613. Why does it not pay the planter if it pays them ?—The planter is not selling his sugar at 6d. a pound. 6614. How is it that they can sell their sugar at 6d. a pound; are there two prices in Jamaica ?—They very frequently sell their syrup among themselves at 6d. a pound. 6615. The planters would be very glad to get 2d. a pound in the island ?— Yes, very ; but very few planters can sell, or do sell anything in the shape of sugar in the island. 6616. When you left the estate, what was done with it?—The cultivation is still going on, I suppose ; they are taking off the crop now, I expect. 6617. Have you heard what the amount of the crop is ?—No, they have not finished yet; they would not finish till April or May. I have not heard about the estate since I left. 6618. Were the company able to fulfil all their engagements ?—Yes. 6619. Were the shares of the company at a premium?—I have not heard anything of them as respects their being at a premium, or at a discount. 6620. The company are not extending their works?—No, I do not think they are likely to extend their works. 6621. They are not likely to make any more calls ?—I do not think they are. 6622. Do you know whether Mr. Joseph Ewart is a brother of the Member of Parliament?—I do not know indeed. 6623. The first requirements in Jamaica are cheap labour, and plenty of capital to buy cattle?—Yes, to have cheaper labour, and to have it when they require it. 6624. Cheaper and continuous labour ?—Yes. 6625. Do you imagine that it would be very easy in Jamaica to raise capital now ?—Not in Jamaica, I think. 6626. Mr. Miles.] You were engaged in farming in Lincolnshire?—Yes. 6627. What sized farm had you there ?—I had 450 acres. 6628. Was it arable ?—Yes, entirely arable. 6629. When you went out to Jamaica, did you introduce any improvements there?—No; we never got started sufficiently to do anything in the shape of improvements. 6630. Did you attempt it?—No. 6631. Were you allowed to have complete control over the management of the estate ?—No. 6632. Who was placed over you ?—Mr. Smith. 6633. He directed all your operations ?—My orders were to do nothing without his consent. 6634. Did he tell you to go on upon the same system as had been adopted before in the island ?—No. 0.32. v 4 6635. What

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6635. What were his orders?—His orders were, that I was to do everything I could to carry on the cultivation; but I never had the means of doing anything. 6636. By saying you were to do everything you could, do you mean that you were to strike out whatever course you wished, or were you to suggest improvements to him ?—I was to suggest improvements to him. 6637. Did you suggest any improvements to him ?—Yes. 6638. Were they adopted by Mr. Smith ?—No; we could not do anything without having more cattle. 6639. And be refused to put any more cattle on the estate ?—He did not refuse, but we had to get leave from home before we could do it. 664.0. Did you write home for leave ?—I did not write home. 6641. Did Mr. Smith ?—I do not know. 6642. Was permission asked of the authorities at home?—I do not know. 6643. You do not know what took place at all in that respect ?—No. 6644. Did Mr. Smith never give you any answer ?—No. 6645. But letters were actually written home?—I do not know whether he wrote home or not. I had nothing to do with that, and I could not ask the question. 6646. Then, in fact, you made no improvement whatever in this estate ?—No. 6647. The estate was cultivated by you exactly as it had always been before ? —Yes, as nearly as possible. 6648. You say that you had 250 acres in cane cultivation?—Yes, on one estate. 6649. And you produced 100 hogsheads from 250 acres?—One hundred and twenty, I believe. 6650. How much did you produce on the other estate ?—About 80 hogsheads. 6651. Do you know what number of plants you had in for those 120 hogsheads ? — I do not know how many we had in that year; I know how many we put in for the next crop. 6652. How many were there?—About 40 for the next crop, the crop that is now coming on. 6653. What do you expect that crop to be ?—It will be probably from 250 to 300 hogsheads ; at least I think so. 6654. On this one estate how much will it be?—Perhaps 150 hogsheads. 6655. Then will 40 acres of plants produce that; how many acres of ratoons were there?—Perhaps from 120 to 130, many of them very old and worn out 6656. Did you find the plough in use when you arived in Jamaica?—A little. 6657. How many acres were brought under the plough ?—They had been in the habit of using it for the cane rows, but not for the cultivation. They seldom ploughed the land on what we call the close-ploughing system. 6658. How many acres were ploughed altogether before you got there?—I do not know. 6659. Did you never hear?—No. 6660. Could you not judge?-—! could judge of the cane rows that had been ploughed over. 6661. How many acres of cane rows had been ploughed ?—Perhaps 20 acres. 6662. How many acres did you plough ?—We ploughed, perhaps, an extent of 30 out of 40, and the others we had put in by the hand. We merely ploughed the cane rows ; we did not cultivate the land at all. 6663. You did not close-plough, as you do in this country ?—No. 6664. Did it never strike you that it would be an improvement ?—Yes. . 6665. Why then did you not attempt it ?—We had not stock sufficient to do it; we had the crop to get oft', and all the stock were employed to get off'the crop. 6666. Did you not consider that you were sent out to teach the people good cultivation?—No, we went out expecting to have the means of cultivating the land. 6667. Did it never strike you that it would be advantageous to try a small quantity of acres, for instance, with close ploughing?—Yes. 6668. Had you cattle enough for that ?—Yes ; we did a little, but it was but little. 6669. How many acres?—Only a few acres. 6670. Can

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 169

Can you state the number of acres?—It might have been four or five acres; that we did as soon as we got there, and it was a very good crop. 6671. Do you think that the plants were better?—I do not know what the plant was. 6672. Did the canes look better on that part than on the other ?—Yes, 6673. How many oxen do you use in a plough ?—Ten, 6674. Was that the number used before you went there?—Yes, I have no doubt it was. 6675. Did you reduce the number of oxen ?—No. 6676. Do you think ten are too many to plough with ?—At the first ploughing the work is heavy, and ten are not too many then ; after that you might reduce the number. 6677. What plough did you use ?—Wilkie's plough. 6678. A double plough ?—No, Wilkie's single plough; but in ploughing the cane-holes we use the double plough. 6679. After you had ploughed the first time, did you reduce the number of oxen to each plough ?—We never ploughed except an acre or two, and we did not reduce the number of oxen. 6680. Why did you not reduce the number ?—Our oxen were in a low condition; they were not in a condition to be reduced in number. 6681. Did you find any difficulty arising from the labourers, in reducing the number of oxen; did they object ?— No, they were as willing to go with eight oxen as with ten. 6682. Would they have gone w ith four instead of ten ?—Four oxen would not have been sufficient, but I do not believe that the labourers would object. 6683. What other implements had you ? The drag we had. 6684. Was it successful ?—Yes, on some soils. 668,5. Did you find the labourers apt to learn ?—No. 6686. Did you have any difficulty in managing them ?—We had not much difficulty, except that they only came to work when it suited them. 6687. Did you take any horses out to Jamaica ?—Yes. 6688. How many?—We took out 18 ; we had about 14 landed there. 6689. How did they answer when you got them upon the property ?—Not very well. 6690. Was sufficient care taken of them ?—Yes, we took all the care we could of them. 6691. What was the result?—Being heavy horses they could not bear the work in that climate. 6692. You took out heavy horses?—Not a very heavy sort; the Cleveland breed : I do not think they can bear the climate well. 6693. How many did you lose out of them ?—We lost several on the passage. 6694. You took 18; you lost four on the passage; how many of the 14 that you landed on the property were lost?—I think I left six. 6695. Have any died since?—I do not know. 6696. You lost eight while you were there ?—Yes. 6697. Did you try them with agricultural implements?—Some of them were very young horses, two years old ; I do not think that sort of horse is able to work in that climate; I do not think the heavy horses are useful at all there ; in the light work they may do, but mules are better; and with any heavy labour cattle are better. 6698. Where is this property that you have been speaking of situated ?—It is in the parish of Westmoreland. 6699. How far from the barquadier ?—Seven miles. 6700. Did you use your horses for the purpose of taking the produce to the barquadier ?—No, we took it with the cattle. 6701. How many cattle did you have in taking the produce to the barquadier? —We used to take three hogsheads with 10 cattle, and sometimes 12. 6702. Was it a bad road ; was there any hill in the way?—Not much of a hill; sometimes the roads were very had indeed, and sometimes in dry weather they were good. 6703. Did it never strike you that it would be advantageous, in taking the sugar to the barquadier, to use horses ?—Yes. 6704. Did you never try it ?—No; we had not any horses capable of working. Z 0.32. 6705. They 6670.

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6705. They were not old enough?—We had some not old enough, but the others were injured on the passage; we had a very rough passage, and that and the climate affected them a great deal. 6706. You do not think horses can be used in Jamaica ?—I do not think that those sort of horses can be used to advantage as agricultural horses. 6707. Do you think that others can?—I think not; I think the mules and cattle are the things to depend upon. 6708. Did you attend to the manufacture of sugar yourself?—A little ; I was in the manufactory a good deal. 6709. Under whose charge was the sugar cultivation ?—The overseer. 6710. Had he been in the island before ?•—Yes, we had one who had been in the island before. 6711. Who were the principal people who were employed about the work; were they strangers to the island, or were they people who had been in the island before ?—They were people who had been in the island. 6712. I suppose you left the manufacture of sugar entirely to the overseers, who were accustomed to it?—Not entirely; we were looking after it more or less, though of course I did not stop in the place, as they did, to see the whole process. 6713. Did you make any improvement in the manufacture of sugar while you were there?—We did not attempt that; we had it boiled as it had been accustomed to be boiled. 6714. Having lived on this property for some time, do you think there is great capability of improvement in the cultivation of the land?—I think one of the estates is very capable of being improved. 6715. Which estate?—The larger of the two; the one that was bought. I think the land is capable of being improved a good deal by cultivation. 6716. The produce you made off it was something less than a hogshead an acre; do you think it could be made to yield a considerably greater quantity? — On some part we had two hogsheads an acre, and on some less. 6717. If you were five years upon the property, what yield do you think you ought to get from that property?—I think it might be made to average two hogsheads an acre ; it is very good land. 6718. Is that taking into consideration the labour that you have now on that property, or do you mean supposing you had labour such as you have in Lincolnshire?—Supposing I had labour sufficient. 6719. With the labour you had upon the property, what return would you expect upon it?—I do not think they could do much more than they do now, with the labour they have upon the property. 6720. You do not think that they could increase the return ?—I should say it would be desirable not to have so large a field with the present quantity of labour; they had better do 100 acres well than 150 acres badly. 6721. You do not know anything about the cost of production; you have not made any calculation of it ?—No, I have not made any particular calculation of that. 6722. Have you made any calculation of what you could cultivate the estate for?—Yes, I have made my own calculation. 6723. What is your calculation?—If I could have labour such as we have in Lincolnshire, that is to plough, and work, and cultivate the land, as I would wish to have it done before the plant is put in, I have no doubt the produce would be a good deal increased, and it would be produced at a low price ; that is, I should be able to sell it at the present price. 6724. What do you think you could afford to sell the sugar for per cwt. ?— About 12 I. a ton ; I mean that it might be produced for that. 6725. You could sell it on the estate for 12 I. a ton ?—Yes. 6726. Then you would have to add other charges before being brought to this country ?—Yes! 6727. Have you taken into consideration all those charges ?—I do not know what those charges would be, but if I could net 12 l. a ton I should be satisfied on that property. 6728. Does that include the charge of interest on capital expended ?—According to my calculation, it would be done for that, to deliver the produce on board ship. I calculate that according to my own ideas, supposing all to be done that is necessary for cleaning and preparing the land. 6729. That

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6729. That does not include the interest of capital ?—Yes; I have my own ideas about that. 6730. State what your ideas are about that; what do you value the property at ?—I should value it at what it cost. 6731. £.5,000l. ?— Yes. 6732. Would you propose to lay out any increased capital upon the estate, in order to put the estate in good order ?—Nothing further than the cattle that I require to cultivate the land. 6733. In buildings would you require any additional outlay ?—The buildings are very good. 6734. You would want an increased capital of from 2,000/. to 3,000/. for cattle ?—Not on that estate. 6735. You would want 1,500l. You have 120 cattle on that estate and 10 mules; you cannot double that number for less than 1,500/.?—Two hundred cattle would work the estate perhaps. 6736. You have allowed for everything but labour; have you any idea how you could get that?—I do not think I could get it with the present labour of the country. 6737. Could you get it by any other means ?—I do not know ; I fancy Africans imported might be useful. 6738. Have you ever considered what number of Africans would be required ? -No. 6739. Have you ever thought what you could afford to pay the labourer?— If a man would give me his labour five days in the week, I could afford to give him 18 d. a day. 6740. How many hours a day should he work ?—I should be satisfied with 10 good hours. 6741. Have you any idea of the number of labourers you would require on that estate to do the labour necessary to be done ?—I could not exactly say. 6742. How many labourers have you on it at present?—Sometimes 40, sometimes 50 or 60, and 80 perhaps ; and sometimes we have not 10. 6743. Have you any idea what number of days' labour you might have in the year from the labourers ?—Four days in the week. 6744. From 50 labourers ?—In crop time we have 60, or 70, or 80 labourers, and then out of crop time we have not more than 20 or 25. 6745. How many labourers do you think you would require ; would 100 labourers do for you, at 10 hours a day ?—Yes, taking the year round. 6746. And you could afford to pay them 6d. a day ?—Yes, if they would do the work I wished them to do, and give me good labour for 10 hours a day. 6747. You stated that you thought that penning the cattle as they do now is the best way of manuring the ground ?—No, I do not think it is the best way ; but under present circumstances it is the best way to adopt; they have not sufficient labour to carry out any other. 6748. Would you set much value upon penning cattle upon on estate ? —Yes. 6749. Would you ever think of attempting it in. Englnnd?—No; we have better means of manuring our land in England, by sheep and turnips. 6750. Can you give an idea of the comparative value of manure penned in that way, and manure made in the yard; has not the sun very great effect upon manure from cattle penned ?—Yes, it has; but I would prepare the land before I penned the cattle upon it; and after that I would plough it as soon as the cattle had been penned on it. 6751. Did you ever use any artificial manures in Jamaica?—We used a little guano. 6752. Did you find it answer?—The cane appeared to grow very well, but I did not see the result of the crop taken off. 6753. Do you know how it was applied ?—Yes, it was applied by hand. 6754. What quantity to an acre ?—About 4 to 5 cwt. 6755. Was it put round the cane root?—No, we spread it on the rows. 6756. Do you know what the result has been ?—The cane appeared to grow very well, but I did not see the result. 6757. Mr. Gibson.] You stated that the reason why the improvements were not carried out that you would have wished to carry out, was the want of 0.32. z 2 means;

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means ; and that you did not effect many of the improvements that you could have wished to effect, in consequence of your applications to this country not being 6 March 1848. attended to?—I had not the cattle; all the cattle we had were employed in bringing the cane to the mill. 6758. The reason you had not the cattle was, that means were not furnished you to buy the cattle ?—I had not the means of buying them without having positive orders; I was not allowed to do it, and the season was gone before I could have any communication about it. 6759. You have been accustomed to farming in Lincolnshire; how would you be able to carry on farming in Lincolnshire if you had not the means of obtaining a sufficient quantity of cattle for cultivation?—I could not carry it on well; I could not cultivate land at all without cattle to cultivate it with. 6760. In fact, if you were in a similar position in Lincolnshire with regard to means as you were in the West India estate, the result would be the same ?—Of course it would; I could never cultivate land without the means of doing it; you must have cattle to do the labour. 6761. With regard to labour, would it not be a very awkward thing for the population generally of Jamaica, if those negroes were to neglect their provisiongrounds, and give all their services to the planters ; what would be the position of the population there with regard to the supply of provisions ?—I think the planters ought to grow provisions. 6762. But in the present state of affairs, the planters not doing that, what would be the position of Jamaica, if those labourers, as matters now stand, were to neglect their provision-grounds, and give their labour to the planters?—If they gave their labour to the planters, the planters would be producers of provisions. 6763. You think the planters would grow provisions ?—Yes. 6764. Mr. Goulburn.] Was that the former practice?—I believe it was the practice in the time of slavery. 6765. Mr. M. Gibson.] At present, if I understand you rightly, the entire supply, or nearly so, of provisions for the population comes from the labour of those blacks upon their own provision-grounds ?—Yes, I believe so. 6766. Everything else remaining the same ; if they were to neglect their provision-grounds, it would be a very serious evil to the island?—Yes, if thev neglected them, and provisions were not supplied by other people, I think it would be a very serious thing for the country. 6767. You have been asked by the Chairman about the " indolence " of the blacks : does not what you said amount to this; that the labour in growing provisions is a more profitable labour to the black, and therefore he preferred it to the wages that he would receive from the planter?—Yes. 6768. It is not indolence, but it is that the black prefers the most profitable employment that, presents itself to him?—I have no doubt that he can make more from his provision-ground than he can by working upon the estates. 6769. If your Lincolnshire labourer could make more by growing provisions than by working upon your farm, do you think you could get him to work on your farm ? —I think not. 6770. Whose fault is all this; upon whom do you lay the blame; is it from the system of competition that planters are now exposed to the depression that has taken place, or do you believe it is mainly owing to the deficient arrangements as between the planters and those employed in Jamaica?—I do not blame the labourer for growing his own provisions and working for himself, if he can do better than by working for the planter; we ought all to try to do the best we can for ourselves; if a man sees that by working in his provision-ground he can do better than by working for the planter, it is hardly likely he will go to work for the planter. 6771. Can you state, as a matter of fact, that on any particular occasion when you wanted labour during the time you were in Jamaica, you could not get it?— Yes, I can. 6772. Was that want of labour the cause of considerable loss?—We had no very serious loss, because it happened not when we were in crop, but afterwards; we were, I dare say, a week or 10 days without, and we were obliged to give way at last. It. was not a very serious loss ; it was in cleaning the crop. 6773. What was the particular cause of want of labour ?—They wanted a very serious advance in the wages, more than any other planter had been giving. 6774. It Mr. T. Dickon,

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6774. It was not an unwillingness to work, but they wanted more wages for their work ?—Yes, they wanted fewer hours in the da}', and so on. 6775. Did you ever, in any instance, experience a want of labour when it was most valuable to you, during crop time?—Yes, it would have been advantageous to us to have taken the crop off a little more quickly, and if we could have had labour we should have done so. 6776. You were not supplied with the funds to enable you to furnish yourself with the necessary stock for carrying on the cultivation. Were you supplied with funds to pay the wages regularly, without allowing them to fall into arrear?— Yes, we paid the wages every week. 6777. Is it within your knowledge that the habit ordinarily of employers is to pay wages punctually, and not to allow them to fall into arrear ?—I have heard, but of course I know nothing but what I have heard, that there are parties who did not pay quite punctually, but nothing came within my own knowledge so as to enable me to say positively that it was so. 6778. You state that the labourers give their labour when they please, and that they do not give it when the employers want it. Does the master give the employment always when the labourer wants it?—The master is willing to give labour when he has it to do; but when he could do with 50 people he would not employ 100. 6779. not the masters sometimes decline to employ labourers who present themselves to them ?—I dare say they do. 6780. Then if the labourer cannot get something to rely upon, in the way of constant employment, how can it be wondered at that he looks to other means to depend upon, in the shape of provision-grounds, and so forth ? Do not you think that if the master requires that the labourer should be always at his disposal when he wants him, the master should always be prepared to give employment when the labourer asks for it ?—I do not know that the labourer is always at the master's disposal anywhere. 6781. You said that it was very important that the labourer should give his labour when the employer wants it ?—I do not want to bind the labourer down ; but in Jamaica he will leave you at a minute's warning, in order to go and work on his own ground ; if there is a shower of rain, and you want him to plant your land, he will go and plant for himself. 6782. But you think it very desirable that the labourer should give his services in such a way as the master requires ; you think it an evil that you have not a control over the labour of the labourer; that is requisite : how can you expect to have such a control if you do not give the labourer employment when the labourer wants it?—There are times when the planter has not work. 6783. So that, under those circumstances, if you were to import a good many more labourers, there would betimes when they would be without employment ?— Yes, for a short time. 6784. Would it not be better if, by using machinery and cattle, you could have fewer labourers and give them constant employment, rather than have a great many and give them employment at one time, and have them out of employment at another?-—Yes, it would be desirable to have implements and reduce the number of labourers. 6785. Do not you think that if you had those implements, and assistance were given you, you might give a fewer number of labourers constant employment, so that they might not be induced to wander away to other means of subsistence ?— We should be more able certainly to employ them constantly. 6786. Do not you think that a good deal of this difficulty of getting a control over the labourers arises from the planters not being able to give them constant employment ?—I am not able to give an answer to that. 6787. In Lincolnshire, if you did not afford a man something like regular employment, would you not find it difficult to get his services whenever you wanted them ?—Yes, I have no doubt we should ; he would be looking out for something else, no doubt. 6788. When slavery existed in the West Indies, the managers of estates were not under the necessity of considering these things, because they could command by force the services of the labourers, could they not ?—I suppose so but I am not acquainted with it. ' 6789. Do not you think that the habit, in regard to the labourers, formed during the period of slavery, is very likely, to a certain degree, to have influenced 0.32. z 3 the

571 Mr. T. Dickon. 6 March 1848.

174 Nr. T. Dickon.

6 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

the employment now the labourers have become free men, and that it may have prevented the system of freedom working well ?—I do not know that I can speak to that. 6790. Do not the farmers of Lincolnshire make it a point to attach, as it were, by regular employment, their labourers to the estates upon which they work ; do not you manage so to lay out your work as that your men shall not lose any time if you can avoid it ?—Yes ; I usually throughout the year employ a certain number of what I consider my own labourers, and sometimes I have employed them at a sacrifice to myself, rather than part with them. 6791. Do not you consider, that if that system were, to a certain degree, impressed upon the managers of estates and overseers in Jamaica, it might be attended with benefit ?—Perhaps it might. 6792. You mentioned about the manufacture of sugar, that you attended to it to ascertain the extent as well as the cultivation ; is it your opinion that it is a good thing for the same parties to be cultivators as well as manufacturers of sugar ; do you think that both businesses can be carried on well by the same person ?—The manufacture of sugar is not a difficult process. I think they can be carried on together with advantage. 6793. Have you considered at all whether it would be desirable to give up, to some extent, the manufacture of sugar in the West Indies, and to allow it to be sent over to this country in a rough state, either as cane-juice or concrete, or something ot that sort, to go through the higher process of manufacture in this country ?—I am not capable of answering that question ; there is a good deal in that which I am not conversant with ; the cane juice would be acid very soon, and how that would affect it I do not know. 6794. But the labour that you get in the West Indies is not labour well adapted to the manufacture of sugar ; it is not attentive labour, such as is wanted to work the machinery that is sent out; would you not get good machinery better worked in this country, if the cane were converted into sugar here, instead of being converted there?—I do not feel at all capable of giving an opinion upon that subject. 6795• Lord J. Manners.] How did you cultivate the land in Jamaica?—We cultivated it in ten-acre pieces. 6796. How many cattle did you consider it would require to prepare it ? —About two spells ; we call eight a spell, that is, 16 to 20 ; that is, for ploughing. 6797. For manuring?—For manuring you require to pen 2,000 cattle for one night upon an acre; or if you have 100 head of cattle, you require to pen them 20 nights on an acre of land. 6798. Had you the entire superintendence of the labour on these estates ?— Yes. 6799. You were at liberty to send off the labourers, and to employ them?— Yes. 6800. It rested entirely with you ?—Yes. 6801. Did it ever happen to you to have to dismiss labourers, from not having employment to give them ?—We seldom had any to dismiss. 6802. Had you ever to dismiss labourers, from want of employment ?—No, I think we had always employment for as many as came to us. 6803. The year through ?—Yes. 6804. And sometimes you could have employed a good many more ?—Sometimes we could have employed a few more. 6805. When you went out you expected to have the superintendence of a great number of estates?—Yes. 6806. Did you never ask yourself the question why it was that you were limited to two estates ?—Yes. 6807. What do you conceive to be the reason ?—I am hardly at liberty, I think, to disclose that. 6808. Did you imagine the company would cultivate those two estates only? —No; I was led to expect that we should have a considerable number of estates. 6809. You mentioned 32 or 34?—I expected we should have 20 or more, perhaps. 6810. You cannot give the Committee any reason why it was limited to two ? —No, I cannot go into that. 6811. Were the company willing to continue you in your situation, or have you

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 175 you come home on account of your wife's health?—I should have left them if I had stopped in the country. 6812. Owing, probably, to the small amount of employment that they had to give you ?—Of course it was not likely that on those two estates they could pay me any large amount, and I did not feel either that I should like to stop; but that is a private matter, and I would rather not enter into it. 6813. You say that you attach very great importance to having a command of labour at all times?—Yes, it is advisable to have a command of labour. 6814. Do you not think that it is more than advisable, that it is of very great importance indeed ?—It is of very great importance at some seasons of the year that you should have labour when you want it. 6815. Therefore it is difficult to compare the condition of the planters now with what it was under the old state of slavery, when they had absolute control over their labourers '—I know nothing of what they were then. 6816. You know the fact, that they had an absolute command over their labourers ?—They had command over their labourers, and they could have their work done as they wished to have it, and when they wished to have it. 6817. If you attach such great importance to the planters having command over their labour, it must be difficult for you to compare the two positions, of not having that command as at present, and having it as under a system of slavery?— Of course it is. 6818. You think the one was very much more advantageous to the planter than the other?—I am not able to speak to that; I know nothing of the slave labour further than I know they had it when they wanted it; the expense I know nothing of. 6819. The fact of their having the power to command labour at any time must have been a much more advantageous position for the planters to be in than the position he is now in, where his labourers are liable to leave him at any moment? —It is a decided advantage to have labour when you require it. 6820. Mr. Goulburn.] You spoke of the negroes' provision-grounds ; are those provision-grounds part of the estates upon which negroes are resident, or are they independent grounds possessed by themselves?—They are generally independent, I think ; they live on freeholds bought off from individual estates which have been sold in small portions. 6821. They have been sold to the negroes by the owners of the estates that have been abandoned?—Yes. 6822. What did you say was the extent of them, generally speaking; are they pretty equal in amount?—Pretty nearly, I should say, but I am not able to say to what extent, 6823. In what part of the island is the estate under your management situated ? —In the parish of Westmorland. 6824. Had it been the practice there to grow ground provision for the negroes?—I believe in the time of slavery they had grown provisions; to what extent I am not able to say. 6825. You have managed a farm in Lincolnshire, in England, have not you ?— I have. 6826. Is there in England a power of employing the same number of labourers during the whole of the year?—No, of course, except in harvest; we cannot employ the same number that we do in harvest. 6827. Is there any great difference between the number employed in harvest in England, as compared with the number employed at the dead time in England, and the number employed in the West Indies during crop time and during the planting season, as compared with the other part of the year ?—Pretty much the same, I should say. 6828. Is there any difficulty in Lincolnshire in obtaining such employment as is necessary for the work of the farm ?—Generally speaking, I could always have labour; in harvest I have been sometimes rather short of labour. 6829. You have not had the same facility in the management of estates in the West Indies, have you ?—No. 6830. What was the rate of wages at which the persons struck, when you said they absented themselves for a fortnight from your employment ?—At the wages we offered them they might have earned from 1 s. 6d. to 2s. a day. 6831. What was the rate they desired to have ?—It would have been somez4 0.32. thing

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thing like 2s. to 2s. 6d. That was merely in cleaning the canes; but they frequently, I think, strike in some situations. 6 March 1848. 6832. Cleaning the cane is light labour, is not it ?—It is rather light. 6833. It is light in comparison with planting?—Yes, it is light in comparison with digging cane-holes and so on. 6834. Do you think you could carry on a farm productively in Lincolnshire, if you were left 10 days at a time without labour?—No, I do not think I could. 6835. Mr. M. Gibson.] You were entirely without labour during those 10 days, were you?—We had a few labourers. 6836. Mr. Goulburn.] Utterly inadequate to the cultivation?—Yes. 6837. Sir E. Buxton.] Can you suggest any means of procuring continuous labour in the West Indies ?—-Nothing, except the price of the ground provisions were reduced ; I fancy that would be the means of bringing the labourer to work for the planter more. 6838. Would you recommend that the duty on provisions imported should be taken off?—I am not able to give an opinion as to that. 6839. Do you think it very desirable that the price of ground provisions should be reduced ?—Yes. 6840. The price of provisions is very high now, is not it?—Yes. 6841. Which induces labourers to grow provisions of that kind rather than work on the estates?—Yes. 6842. If labourers were to work continuously on your estates, and not to direct their attention to any other kind of labour, have you labour enough?—I think there might be, but it woul drequire that they should work the whole week, and use implements. If they were induced to work with implements in the way the planters would wish, and so on, it would be an improvement. 6843. If you could get continuous labour, would you be satisfied to pay the same price which you do now?—I think they might afford to give a man, for his 10 hours' labour during the day, Is. 6d. 6844. If the labourer would work the whole week, he might have Is. 6d. a day?—I think he might. 6845. Supposing, instead of the labourers growing provisions, the planters were to grow provisions, would not that tend to decrease the quantity of sugar that they grow ?—It might a few acres, but not more than that. I fancy provisions would pay as much per acre as the sugar-cane, even if you were to reduce the price very much from the present rate. 6846. Are a great proportion of the labourers freeholders?—Yes, a great proportion, but I am sure I could not say what proportion. 6847. A large proportion of them have laud of their own?—They have. 6848. If wages were to fall very much, do you imagine they would be inclined to leave off growing sugar altogether, and go on to their own property ?—Yes, so long as the present price of ground provisions remains what it is. 6849. It does not fall within your knowledge to know whether provisions might be imported at a very low rate?—No. 6850. Are there any laws at present with respect to the squatting in the mountains ?—No laws that I am aware of. 6851. They may squat if they like?—They may. 6852. Have you turned your attention to the suggestion of any law by which they may be prevented from squatting?—No, I have never thought of it. 6853. Are there a great many of them who go into the mountains to squat ?— I think the larger proportion do, 6854. You do not know the numbers ?—I have no notion of the number. 6855. When they get up into the mountains, you very seldom see them back .again, do you ?—They do occasionally come down, but seldom.

Mr. T. Dickon.

John Alexander Hankey, Esq., called in; and Examined. J. A. Hankey, Esq.

Chairman.] YOU are an extensive West India merchant, I believe, and you have also estates in Jamaica and in Grenada?—I have been connected wit" many of the islands as a merchant; I have estates in Grenada only. 6857. Have you a statement for some years past of the expenditure, the production and the profit and loss upon those estates in Grenada ?—I have prepared a statement taken from my accounts for a certain number of years, giving 68,56.

the

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177

575

the results of the cultivation of certain estates in which I am a proprietor: they J. A. Hartley, Esq. begin in 1831 ; if I had gone further back than 1831, the profit would have been larger; 1831 was a particularly bad year, but I wished to give an accurate 6 March 1848. and just statement. 6858. Can you state how 1831 came to be a bad year ; was it a bad crop, or was it on account of any disturbances in the island ?—It was a deficient crop as respects my estates, and there was a very low price of sugar in that year. The net proceeds per cwt. in 1831 were 1386s. 6859. In 1831, this statement comprises expenditure for supplies to negroes, and medical attendance, salaries of overseers, and so on ; the general outlay, and the entire outlay, and then the produce in hogsheads of sugar, the net weight of those hogsheads in hundredweights in London, the proceeds of the sugar, the puncheons of rum and molasses, reckoning four puncheons of molasses equal to three puncheons of rum?—Yes; we very seldom have imported molasses; but in one or two instances that has occurred to a small extent; I convert it into its equivalent of rum, to avoid confusion. 6860. Have you also given the estimated quantity in gallons in London — Yes ; a large portion of our rum was sold in the colony. 6861. You have put the whole as received here?—Yes, allowing for the waste, which we know by experience always takes place on the passage. 6862. You have given the proceeds of the rum, and the total proceeds of the produce altogether; the profit each year, and the number of negroes, distinguishing men, women and children ?—I have. 6863. What was the result in 1831 ?—I have put down the expenditure for the supplies to negroes and the medical attendance, which exactly corresponds to the wages we afterwards paid ; it is ail that money which was expended on the negroes in any way ; in fact, our expenditure for labour. In both cases the negroes are allowed their houses and grounds, and as I have no means of estimating that I have omitted it in both cases. In 1831 the expenditure for supplies to the negroes and medical attendance, was 3,463/.; salaries, 3,055l.; other miscellaneous outlay, 3,926l.; the total expenditure being 10,444/. The hogsheads of sugar were 702, being 11,152 cwts. The proceeds were 7,732/. There were 537 6864. Net in London?—Yes. puncheons of rum, producing 48,330 estimated gallons in London; the proceeds of the rum were 3,981 /. The total proceeds, 11,713l, after deducting the expenditure, left a net profit of 1,209l. in the year. There was some unusual expenditure in that year, but it does not very materially affect the average. The total number of negroes on the estate in that year, was 1,044, of which 499 were men, 545 women, and 168 children. 6865. The women exceeded the men by 46 ?—So it appears. The average net price in 1831 was 1386s. 6866. Eighteen hundred and thirty-two was a much better year, was not it ? ■—In 1S32 the expenditure for supplies to negroes, and medical attendance, was 3,580/.; salaries, 2,961/.; miscellaneous outlay, 3,279/.; total expenditure, 9,820/. There were produced 826 hogsheads. 6867. Can you state from recollection what the estate had produced in its palmy days, before this time ?—I cannot state with any accuracy how many hogsheads it produced, but there were considerably more than that. But it used to yield us about 10,000/. a year, and in its best days, I mean about the year 1817, it produced 26,000/. in one year, and 20,000/. in another. 6868. Will you state the gross expenditure, the gross proceeds, and the net income for the subsequent years ? —The gross expenditure in 1832 was 9,820/., which produced 826 hogsheads of sugar and 695 puncheons of rum; the total proceeds of the produce were 17,572/., leaving a profit of 7,752/. 6869. You appear to have increased the number of negroes from 1,044 to 1,055?—Yes; that might have been from births; I do not think we made any purchases at that time. 6870. In 1835 the net profits amounted to 10,063/.?—Yes. In 1836, 11,750/.; in 1837. 11,738l.; and in 1838, the last year of apprenticeship, 5,038/. The next year we had a crop which was planted during apprenticeship. 6871. Eighteen hundred and thirty-nine, in point of fact, must be reckoned as the last year when you had the benefit of apprenticeship, though they were then free labourers. The free labourers were called on to take off the crop only, not to plant it?—They were called on to plant it, but they did not. The A A 0.32. estate

178

minutes of evidence taken before the

estate went on as before, but we could not obtain all the labour that was required; The average of those eight years was 744 hogsheads, 570 puncheons of rum, and a net income of 8,247/. 14s. 3d. The estate produced in 1839, 370 6 March 1848. puncheons of rum, at a profit of 5,745/. ; that was produced at an expense of 12,674/. In 1838, 1839 and 1840, we went to a large expenditure, for the purpose of preparing for emancipation, in putting everything in the best possible order. 6872. In 1840 the cultivation was still feeling the effect of the idleness of the year 1839 ?—There were still some remains of the consequences of the industry of former times. ] 6873. How many years do they ratoon the cane ?—About three years; they would ratoon in some instances more than that. 6874. So that in point of fact the result of the year's planting of 1839 would come into fruit in 1841 and 1842?—In 1840, 1841 and 1842, and even in 1843, some of it. In 1840 the total outlay was 12,946/.; the crop was 394 hogsheads of sugar and 266 puncheons of rum ; the net proceeds were 16,5961., leaving a profit of 3,650/. 6875. What was the short price in the years 1831 and 1840 respectively?— 43.05s. was the net proceeds of the sugar in 1840; 13.86 s. in 1831. 6876. Sir E. Buxton.] The price in 1840 was 43s. free on board, against 13s. in 1831 ?-—'I hose are all prices free on board. The profit in 1840 was 3,650/. In 1841 the total outlay was 12,185/., which produced 387 hogsheads of sugar and 236 puncheons of rum : 10,261 /. was the total proceeds of the produce, leaving a loss of 1,924/. 6877. This was the first year there was an absolute loss ?—Yes. In 1842 we had ceased our temporary outlay, and had got things a little settled. Our outlay was 9,605/., producing 313 hogsheads, and 160 puncheons of rum, yielding the total proceeds of 7,636/., leaving a loss of 1,969/. In 1843 the expenditure was 9,654/., producing 382 hogsheads of sugar, and 229 puncheons of rum ; producing the net total proceeds of 9,265/., leaving a loss of 389/. In 1844 the expenditure was 9,596/., producing 467 hogsheads of sugar and 280 puncheons of rum ; the total proceeds of the produce, 11,333/., yielding a gain of 1,737/. In 1845 the expenses were 8,871/., producing 365 hogsheads, and 192 puncheons of rum, giving the total proceeds 8,932/., leaving a gain of 61 /. In 1846 the expenses were 8,632/., producing 337 hogsheads of sugar and 218 puncheons of rum; the total proceeds were 9,164/., giving a gain of 532/. In 1847 the total expenditure was 9,000/., within a few shillings, producing 481 hogsheads of sugar. 6878. That was the largest crop of sugar since 1839 ?—Yes. There were also 273 puncheons of rum, producing, with the sugar, 9,009/., leaving a profit of 9l. 6879. The smallness of the profit arises entirely from the low price in this year, does it not; if you had maintained your prices, you would have had a very large profit?—We should have had a considerable profit if we had maintained the prices of the spring. 6880. If you had maintained the prices of the spring, what would your profit have been in the year 1847 ?—I cannot make an estimate of that because the price declined very rapidly and continuously, and I do not know from what point to take it. Taking the decline of price to have been 10l. a ton, the profit would have been 3,750/. The average of nine years, which includes, however, one year at least of the effects of apprenticeship, would give a total outlay of 10,351 /., producing 409 hogsheads of sugar and 247 puncheons of rum, with a net profit of 828/. ; if we exclude that one year, so as to take what I conceive to be more nearly the real average, and include only the last eight years, the total outlay would be 10,061 /., producing 392 1/2 hogsheads and 231 § puncheons of rum, and a net profit of 213 /.

J. A. Hankey, Esq.

[The Witness delivered in the Statement, which is as follows;]

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

577 179

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

180 J. A. Hartley,

Esq.

6 March 1848.

6881. You have another statement, have not you, showing, in detail, the expenditure upon these estates, and the cost of raising each hundredweight of sugar in those various periods ?—I have. [The Witness delivered in the same, which is as follows:]

(2.)—ANALYSIS of the

ACCOUNTS

of Six Estates in Grenada, from the Year 1831 to 1847 inclusive.

Apportionment of Outlay for producing each Cwt. of Sugar, with its proportion of Rum.

S. &H.

1831 1832 1833 1834 1835 1836 1837 1838 1839 1840 1841 1842 1843 1844 1845 1846 1847

Gallons.

6.21 5.44 5.17 5.37 5.46 5.76 4.77 6.65 11.04 18.73 16.40 20.64 16.12 12.04 14.54 14.59 10.31

5.48 4'49 4.07 4.61 4.69 4.85 4.90 5.48 7.12 10.17 10.13 10.16 7.78 5.98 7.5 3 7'73 6.13

7.04 4.98 6.40 7'°4 6.87 8.64 7.80 11.18 11.33 12.72 14.71 9.59 8.30 7.27 10.02 '9-54 7.54

18.73 14.91 15.64 17.02 17.02 19.25 17.47 23.31 29.49 42.62 41.24 40.39 3220 25.29 32.09 31.86 23.98

4.33 4.74 4.32 4.93 4.32 3.66 4.03 4.35 3.87 3.94 3.60 3 03 3.44 3.33 3.13 3.60 3.27

1.64 1.39 1.54 1.64 1.61 1.76 2.13 2. l6 2.93 2.94 1.64 1.54 1.45 1.45 2.05 1.74 1.97 2.10

13.86 20.07 21.37 21 . 18 28.44 34.72 28.26 23.07 31.52 43.05 28.82 27.44 25.90 25.90 2302 26.87 26.74 17.12

20.95 26.65 28.02 29.26 35.39 35.39 41.16 36.84 32.46

2.22 11.74 12.38 12.24 18.37 21.91 19.37 9.15 13.35 12.01

42.84

54.63 34.73 32.12 30.90 30.90 29.85 32.31 33.82 23.98

6.51 8.27 1 .30

_ •

4.56 0.22

1.96 -

s. 11.64 8.33 8.99 8.94 11 -07 11.81 8.89 13.92 18.17 31.04 35.33 35.71 27.20 18.46 26-65 24.78 17.12

The above figures are carried out in decimals.

(3.)—RATES

WAGES,

Grenada.

S. & H.

it.

For S. & H.: Wages per diem

Besides fish and medical attendance. -

9 7 1/2 - 6 - 4 1/2

- 10 - 9i - 7 _ 6 1 - 91/2 - 9 1/2 - 7 - 9 1/2 - 6 - 7 - 6

1 - 11 - 8 - 6 1 1 - 9£ - 7 - 9 1/2 - 6 - 7 - 6 1 -

I - 103/4 - 8£ 1 - 103/4 - 10 3/4 - 8 1/2 - 10$ - 6 - 8 - 6 1 -

1 1 1 1

10 8 6 10 8 10 6 8 6 -

1 - 103/4 - 81/2 - 6 1 l -

- 8 1/2 - 10$ - 6 - 8 - 6 1 -

Tradesmen. Able field labourers, 1st class. - - - ditto - 2d class. - - ditto - 3d class. Employed in the works. Carters or boatmen. Mule gang, 1st class. - ditto - 2d class. Cutting grass. Watchmen and jobbers. Stock-keepers. Domestics. - - Foremen and superinten dents.

Note.— Fish and medical attendance were not allowed after 1844.

6882. Will

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6882. Will you state what the cost of producing each hundredweight of sugar J. A. Hartley, Esq. was in each year?—In 1831 the cost of producing each hundredweight of sugar, 6 March 1848. together with its proportion of rum, was 1873 5., which was proportioned in this way : 6 21 5. was for the labour, 5.48 s. for salaries, and 7.04 5. for miscellaneous expenditure. The quantity of rum to each hundredweight of sugar was 4.33 gallons. The net proceeds per cwt. of sugar were 13.86 5.; the net proceeds per gallon of rum 1.64 5., leaving the cost per cwt. of sugar, after deducting the proceeds of the rum, 11.64 5. I should observe that that was a particularly unfavourable year, the most so that I remember during the time of slavery. The next year is more nearly a fair average. Each cwt. of sugar, with its proportion of ram, had expended upon it 14.91 5., which was thus divided : labour, 5.44 5.; salaries, 4.49 5. ; miscellanies, 4.98 5. The quantity of rum made was 474 gallons to each cwt. of sugar. The net proceeds of each gallon of rum was 1.39 s.; the net proceeds of each cwt. of sugar made was 20.07 5. : the cost per cwt., after deducting the proceeds of the rum, was 8.33 5. 6883. Will you now state the cost of producing a cwt. of sugar in each of the following years?—I will state what it cost me to produce the sugar per cwt., after allowing for the proceeds of the rum: in 1831, 11.64s.; in 1832, 8.33; in 1833, 8.99s.; in 1834, 8.94 s.; in 1835, 1175.; in 1836, 11.81 s.; in 1837, 8.89 5.; in 1838, 13.92 s.; in 1839,18.17 s.; in 1840, 31.4 s.; in 1841, 35.33 s.; in 1842, 35.71 5.; in 1843, 27.20 s.; in 1844, 18.46 s.; in 1845, 26.65 s.; in 1846, 24.74 5.; and in 1847, 17 12 s. 6884. How do you account for having got down the cost of production in the latter years ?—The people were working better generally ; there might be some advantage in the seasons, but the disadvantage of the seasons is in a great degree owing to the labourers not giving us their labour at times which are convenient to us; the same weather which suits our cultivation suits theirs, therefore the effects of an unfavourable season are very much increased by the present want of a constant supply of labour. 6885. First of all, it is of vital importance to get the plants in when you may expect showery weather, to make the plants germinate, and then it is of vital importance to have continuous labour to prevent the weeds from overpowering the crop ?—I have never been in the West Indies, therefore I give this statement only from a tolerably intimate knowledge derived from correspondents, but not from personal observation. 6886. That is the case, is not it ?—It is the case undoubtedly. 6887. Therefore, unless you have continuous labour to carry off the crop, the crop spoils ?—T he crop would be in great measure lost without continuous labour. 6888. L ive not your estates had all the advantage which capital, machinery, and improvement could effect?—They have had every advantage that it was in my power to give them; they are particularly well managed; and we have a very excellent set of white overseers on them. We have been in the habit for a great many years of getting most of our white overseers from one particular part of Somersetshire, from an estate of one of my co-proprietors; they have sent each other out in succession, often going out from the same families for many years ; a great many of them have been Somersetshire people. 6889. Have you any reason to think that your experience of the results of freedom upon your estates has been less favourable than upon the estates of other persons?—I should think the result of my estates was on the whole much more favourable than those of most other proprietors in Grenada. They have been very fully supplied with capital, and have been extremely carefully managed ; and they are all, upon the whole, extremely well situated, close to the sea-shore, in all instances. And though there may be some estates with better land, on the whole they are above the average of the estates in Grenada as to quality. 6890. What is your intention as regards the future cultivation of those estates? —I intend to cultivate them, if I can : but it is under the serious consideration of my co-proprietors and myself, whether it may not be necessary to abandon some of them; we have hopes, however, that the number of estates which are being abandoned in our immediate neighbourhood may give us additional labour. A large number are on the point of being abandoned. 6891. Can you give the Committee a rough estimate of the proportion that is ' expected to be abandoned in Grenada ?—I cannot, because the abandonment is taking place at this moment. They are generally taking off the crops, but not preparing for any future crops. Upon some they will perhaps not be able to 0.32. get a A 3

182 J. A. Hankey, Esq. 6 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

get the crops off; upon the greater part they will; but the estates will virtually cease to be in cultivation. 6892. Are there not advances sufficient to take off the crops actually standing on the ground ?—I think some will have considerable difficulty in obtaining the advances necessary. 6893. Has Grenada suffered from the failure of the West India Bank ?—It has, but not very materially ; the difficulty arises from the disinclination of the merchants here to make advances. 6894. Do yon think anything is to be done in the way of immigration for Grenada?—I think that it might be advantageous; but till within the last two or three years there has been a tendency on the part of the people to emigrate to Trinidad, where they obtained higher wages ; and though I think that has ceased, and some of them have returned, still I should think that till recently any immigration would have been for the benefit of Trinidad, and not for the benefit of Grenada. 6895. How do you account for the labourers returning if they get much better wages there ?—They are more comfortable in Grenada ; and though they do not get such good wages, they are extremely well off; they all speak French, and are Roman-catholics; they raise provisions on their lands, some of which I believe is exported to Trinidad. 6896. In Trinidad they are equally Catholics, are not they?—There is a great mixture in Trinidad ; there are many Catholics there, which has probably induced them to go rather from Grenada than some of the neighbouring islands. 6897. Do you think it is possible, if slave-grown sugar continues to be produced at the same price as it has been of late years, to carry on the cultivation of Grenada with free labour ?—If I had this year had the price that has prevailed of late years, I should have made a profit on my estates. 6898. Supposing slave-grown sugar continues to be produced, and to be admitted into these markets at the same price at which it appears to have been grown of late years, should you be able to compete with it?—I do not think we could compete with slave-grown sugar unless we can obtain a reduction in our expenditure, or a large increase of produce, because our produce bears so very small a proportion now to our fixed capital. All our mills and investment of capital on the estates are upon a scale adapted to a much larger production than we are now able to obtain. 6899. That is entirely from the want of labour, is not it?—It is. 6900. The land has capabilities enough?—The land is just as capable as ever, and we get as much sugar from each quantum of labour as we did during slavery ; but we cannot get the quantity of labour. 6901. There is no pretence for saying that the land is exhausted ?—I think none. The quantity of labour which we get from the same number of people is not more than hall what it was ; I do not think we have lost any great number of people on my estates, but wo do not get half the quantity of labour from each individual. 6902. Does your experience lead you to believe that the resident proprietors have been more successful than the absentee proprietors living in England ?— My experience leads me rather to the contrary; at the same time I think that the occasional presence of the proprietor himself is advantageous ; but it requires a great deal of experience, skill and education for the purpose, to manage a West Indian estate; and I think most of the proprietors that have attempted to manage their own estates without being regularly educated for the purpose, have done a great deal of mischief. I think that a resident proprietor who did not interfere in the cultivation might perhaps have some advantages; I am not prepared to say he would. 6903. Generally speaking, as far as enterprise goes, there is more enterprise in an absent proprietor living in England ?—Few persons who possess the capital requisite for managing a West India estate will reside there, and few people who possess that capital will go through the drudgery necessary to qualify themselves to manage the estate. A great difficulty occurs also as to letting estates. I have given my attention a good deal to letting them, with the view of considering whether it might, not be advisable to let my own estates, but I have always been prevented by the difficulty of finding persons who were willing to take them, possessing the requisite skill, with capital sufficient for carrying on the cultivation, and for giving me the requisite security. 6904. As

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

183

581

6904. As a merchant, are you giving your usual advances upon the crops this J. A. Hankey, Esq. year:—I advance nothing that I can possibly avoid this year. I carry on my 6 March 1848. own estates, of course, but I have been obliged to call upon most of the proprietors with whom I am connected, to find means for carrying on their estates, or to give me such security as will ensure that I shall not have to depend upon the estate. 6905. Is the effect of that that the necessary advances for the cultivation of a great many of the estates with which you are connected will cease?—Not of many of the estates with which I am connected, because most of the parties have property in this country; but there are a number of persons in Trinidad to whom we have been in the habit of making advances upon their sugar, which we have now refused to make. They, I apprehend, must be in great difficulty; I do not exactly know what their position is. But I run the risk of losing what they already owe me, rather than advance more to them in order to keep up their estates. 6906. Does your present experience make you acquainted with a great deal of distress among those connected with the West Indies?—With tremendous distress. Several individuals with whom I have been acquainted formerly, and who were extremely well off, are now reduced to the greatest poverty; people who were formerly in society in London, but who have sunk out of it now from sheer poverty. One of the painful parts of a West Indian merchant's business is the necessity for refusing to make advances, where none but West India property now exists, to persons who were formerly well off. 6907. You are the merchant for the Worthy Park estate, are not you ?—lam. 6908. It was alleged that the failure of the improvements contemplated by Mr. Price arose from the machinery not being punctually sent out by the merchants in England; is that the fact?—It is a mistake, certainly. On the Gth of October 1845 we received an order for a steam-engine and mill; on the 14th of October the order was given to Messrs. Boulton & Watt, of Birmingham. In January the boilers and furnace work, to the weight of 10 tons, were shipped. The Committee is aware that it takes a long time to make a steam-engine and mill. In April Lord Ingestre, Mr. Thomas Price and myself inspected it at Soho, and by the end of April, the ship being detained for the purpose, the whole was despatched. The whole had arrived in Jamaica by the end of June. I, of course, had no further personal knowledge of what took place; but I find by letters from Mr. Buckle, the engineer, that at the end of January 28 tons of this machinery was standing at the railroad terminus in Jamaica because it had not yet been sent for. 6909. That being more than six months after its arrival ?—Yes. I do not think Mr. Price could have sent for it sooner, because he had to make preparations for it, the extent of which he had not been at all aware of when he ordered the mill. 6910. It was from a want of a practical knowledge of his business that he did not make the necessary preparations for putting up the mill which you sent out ? •—Yes; he was not aware of the immense difficulties he would have to contend with when he undertook the management of that estate. The estate lies in a valley in the mountains, with a tremendous road across the hills, which makes it extremely difficult to get materials up to the estate. 6911. Can you inform the Committee what the produce of that estate was. In the evidence which appears to have been given on oath before the Assembly of Jamaica, Mr. Price states that the produce was 190 hogsheads in 1843, and 290 hogsheads in 1844; that in the year in which he was speaking (that is in the year 1845), it was 400 tons, and that his estimate for the year 1845 was 700 tons; you, as the merchant, will be able to tell us whether that estimate was realized?—As regards this statement I have preferred taking Mr. Price's accounts to my own, as it may prevent dispute. The amount of the crop credited in the books of the estate, from the 1st of November 1842 to the 31 st of October 1843, was 232 1/2 hogsheads of sugar and 59 1/2 puncheons of rum ; from November 1843 to the 31st of October 1844, 2611/2 hogsheads of sugar, and 82 puncheons of rum; from 1844 to 1845, 309 hogsheads of sugar, and 135 puncheons of rum; from 1845 to 1846, 302 J hogsheads of sugar, and 146 1/2 puncheons of rum; from 1846 to 1847, 266 1/2, hogsheads of sugar, and 128 1/2 puncheons of rum. 0-32. A A4 6912. Mr

184 J. A. Hartley, Esq. C March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

6912. Mr. Price also, in his evidence on oath before the Assembly of Jamaica, states that the prospects of the planters are improving greatly, and the value of property rapidly increasing; that in case of Worthy Park, for which 10,000/., with 26,000l. charges, were paid in 1839, 30,000/. was refused for the moiety of it, unless paid by the 1st of January 1846, with the 26,000/. charges ; can you give any account of the real value of that estate, after the expenditure upon it?— I can give no account of the present value at all. I should be very sorry to take it with its outstanding debt; it is, however, one of the best estates in Jamaica. 6913. It is reckoned the second best estate in Jamaica, is not it?—I cannot say; it is very fertile land ; it has every advantage but that of locality ; it is situated at a great distance from the sea; no doubt, supposing it to be now in perfect order, and that estates were saleable at all, that, as compared with other estates, ought to be very much increased in value ; because Mr. George Price has increased his cultivation very largely; and if he has the means of taking off the crops it ought to be valuable, if any estate in the West Indies is valuable, but I apprehend that no estate in the West Indies is valuable at present. 6914. Are you able to tell the Committee whether the charges, which appear to have been 26,000l. originally, have been paid off, or have they increased upon the estate during the last three or four years?—I think there was a small amount of those charges paid prior to Mr. Price taking charge of it; perhaps 1,000/. or 2,000l.; but since that time the debt upon it has increased very largely. 6915. What was the debt incurred to the merchant of the estate?—The debt is at this moment a little reduced; it was, when this paper was drawn up, which was a few weeks ago, 24,806 I. 0 s. Ad.-, part of that, however, has accrued from the payment of some of the interest upon incumbrances; some part of the loss no doubt is attributable to the misfortunes which have occurred to the machinery first erected. 6916. The estate with the old charges is now charged, as nearly as may be, with 50,000 /. debt ?—I am afraid it is more than that, but I cannot state exactly, as some of the debts are not immediately within my knowledge. 6917. Should you be glad to take the estate, with its charges?—No; I look to the trustees. 6918. Do you think that any solvent person could be found to take the estate and to bear the charges ?—It is a matter of opinion ; I should think not. 6919. If other merchants are of the same opinion with yourself, will not the result be that a great part of the estates in Jamaica, and in the other West India islands, must be thrown out of cultivation?—I think a large portion of the estates in the West Indies must, now be thrown out of cultivation, under any circumstances. 6920. What proportion of those estates, as far as you can form an opinion, should you say would be thrown out of cultivation if the present prices continue ? — I cannot state that; it depends upon a thousand circumstances which no man can calculate. In the first place, whether the price of labour is diminished or not. We do not know what will or what will not occur, but undoubtedly a very large portion of the poorer estates must be thrown out of cultivation, and some of the better ones probably will also. 6921. What amount of protection do you think would suffice to prevent such a result ?—I cannot express an opinion as to the amount of protection which would save the property; it is a question of degree. If we get a good price for the sugar, the larger portion of the estates will remain in cultivation; if we get a bad one, then none will be left but the very best estates. 6922. What should you say to 32 s. or 33 s. a cwt. ? —It would enable the estates with which I am connected generally to remain in cultivation, but we are connected with none but the better class. 6923. You think that with that price, all the estates you are connected with would continue in cultivation?—I think, perhaps, all the estates I am immediately connected with now would remain in cultivation at that price, supposing that the price of labour is not increased, and that we are somewhat assisted as to the quantity of labour. 6924. Do you think anything is to be done in the way of free immigration ?— I hope to obtain benefit by free immigration, but difficulty may occur from the great facility tor obtaining land under the circumstances of most of the colonies. In the colonies with which I am connected there is a great difference as to the facility

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facility the labourers possess of obtaining land, and therefore of their obtaining J. A. Hankey, Esq. subsistence independent of wages. 6925. Do you-think that might be remedied by contracts for five years with C March 1848. the new immigrants?—In the only instance in which I was concerned with immigration we entered into those contracts, and they were broken through entirely. 6926. How were they broken through ?—The people would not keep to their contracts, and the Government did not give us the means of enforcing them. 6927. Was that in Grenada?—Yes. 6928. Is that a Crown colony?—No, it is a legislative colony; but it was under the stipendiary magistrates; the immigrants were Maltese. The whole detail of the undertaking is contained in the evidence given before the last Committee in 1841 or 1842 by Mr. Barkly. 6929. Upon what pretext did the Government refuse?—They did not refuse, but they did not assist. 6930. The stipendiary magistrates interfered, did they, against the planters? —They did not interfere at all. I do not know that they were called on in any definite manner, but it was found we could get no redress ; the people generally found that they could obtain a better living, and one more agreeable to themselves, by wandering over the country, and they did so. 6931. Was there any difficulty in enforcing the contracts if the magistrates had been willing to do so?—I dare say there might have been some difficulties, but it is difficult to estimate what they would have been ; the people were extremely well treated ; we had built very good cottages for them, and we sent out a Maltese surgeon and a priest with them, to watch over their interests. 6932. Did those Maltese do well in the first instance?—I think they did well just at first, but we certainly committed the error of over-indulgence. 6933. As far as climate was concerned, they did not suffer too, did they ?— I do not think they did much ; it was, however, a very unsuccessful experiment, and determined me to have no more to do personally with any system of immigration. 6934. Neither from Europe, nor Africa, nor from the East Indies?—From neither ; we took every pains in our power ; we spared neither money nor pains, and we endeavoured to make the people as comfortable as we possibly could, but we failed. 6935. In what year did you embark in that speculation; was it after the expiration of the apprenticeship ?—It was just about that time. I have brought here an account of the rates of wages in Grenada. I will take the wages of ablebodied labourers of the first class. In 1839 they were 7 1/2d. ; in 1840, 9 1/2d.; in February 1841, 11 d; in January 1842, 10 3/4 d. in October 1844, 10c/.; in December 1845, 10 3/4 d. ; in December 1847, they have been reduced to 8d. ; but whether that will hold or not we do not know; all this is besides house and ground. 6936. Sir E. Buxton.] How many hours do they work for it ?—They work what is called a day's work, which is not half a day's work. 6937. Lord (jr. Manners.'] Are there any rations ?—No, not now; they had fish and medical attendance up to 1844. 6938. Sir E. Buxton.] The digging of how many cane-holes do you consider to be equal to a day's work ?—I am not acquainted" with the details of that. 6939. Where you work by piece-work, is a day's work less than it used to be under slavery in point of amount?—I believe it is considerably less ; at the same time, from the greater economy of labour which is used, I think that for the same number of hours' work we get about the same quantity of sugar from each negro. 6940. Chairman.] Have you any statement to show that ?—I have a statement here of the average expenditure upon negro labour. From 1831 to 1837, it was about 3,209/.; which divided among 1,206 people, gives for each 2l. 13 s. 3d., but of those only 744 were effective labourers; the expenditure must therefore be divided amongst them, which gives 4 l. 6 s. 3d. for the labour of one man per annum ; that answers to the wages which a man earns for his family; the expenditure for each effective labourer was 4l. 6 s. 3d., besides allowing him his house and ground ; that was the actual money expenditure. I think the Committee may take the work during slavery at about five days in the week ; they worked only nine hours a day, and they had holidays allowed them, it makes altogether about 250 days labour for each negro, which pro0.32. B b duced

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duced altogether about a hogshead of sugar, and 70 gallons of rum for each person. The same number of days' work produces now about the same quantity 6 March 1848. of sugar, but only 50 gallons of rum; we have now to pay them for wages 10 l. 8s. Ad. 6941. It is 10/. 85. 4d., instead of 4/. 6s. 3 d.?—Yes. I include no interest on capital in either case. 6942. So that in the former case the original expense of the slave, and the expense of renewing him, is not included ?—The original expense of the slave is not included, but it happened there was no expense of renewing him, because at that time the population was maintaining its numbers. 6943. It was only the capital originally invested, and the interest upon it?—• That is all ; it might have been otherwise in former davs during the slave trade. 6944. Chairman.'] Your slaves were valued at 59/. 6 s., and you accordingly got 26 l. 1 s. 4 3/4 d. ?—That is the fact. 6945. That is a perpetual and an unprofitable charge against your estate ?— It is a loss I have sustained. Out of those 1,206 negroes, 167 were children under six years of age ; they became free in 1834; and 295 were the invalids, pregnant women, and servants. Of course it is very material to us to diminish our cost for labour, but, at the same time, if we got a larger quantity of labour, it would very materially reduce the cost of sugar to us. If, instead of getting an average of 390 hogsheads, we could get back the average we had formerly of 800 hogsheads, we should have to increase the expenditure upon miscellaneous expenses only by a very moderate sum ; the amount of salaries by a very moderate sum ; much less in proportion than the increase in the quantity of labour; it would, therefore, diminish the cost of our sugar very materially. 6946. Sir E. Buxton.] You say the price of labour is falling at present ?—It has fallen; but this last sum I have given of 8d., is in consequence of the panic which has arisen at this moment; and I am told by my letters to-day, that on 15 estates in Grenada they have not yet agreed to that price. 6947. In case other estates were thrown out of cultivation, you imagine they would come down to that price, or even still lower?—I think it probable that the price would be somewhat lowered, and that a portion of those labourers would come to me. 6948. The estates that you have been telling the Committee about are all in Grenada, are not they?—Yes. 6949. Is there much uncultivated land the people can go on ?—There is a great deal of uncultivated land ; connected with each of those estates, we have properties, in the mountains, upon which our people are located. 6950. Do you give them as much land there as they require ?—Yes. 6951. So that there is no difficulty for a man to go down and work on his own plot of ground, if he likes; there is no check put upon his going to do it ?—I do not think there is anything that can be called positive squatting there ; at the same time, they get land very cheap ; and we are so much in need of what little assistance we can get from a man, that we do not turn him off the land if he gives us the smallest quantity of labour. 6952. You are glad to let him have land at a very low price, in order to secure part of his labour ?—We do not charge any rent there. 6953. Mr. Goulburn.] Neither for residence nor land ?—No. I am not aware that any man has been turned off the land, but I do not suppose any man would be allowed to remain who gave no labour. 6954. Can you suggest any means by which labour might be made more continuous ?—I am not aware of any beyond making labour more abundant, so as to make it advantageous to them to work more steadily than they have hitherto done. 69,55. If a large importation came, and the prices of labour fell, would not the present labourers be rather induced to leave their present occupations, and take to growing provisions for themselves?—There certainly might be some reason to fear that if the price of labour was very much lowered, they might prefer raising provisions, and give up working on the estates. I am not prepared, however, to say they would do so. 6956. Is there a large import duty upon provisions in Grenada?—I am not aware of any. 6957. I hen provisions are not very dear there ?—I hey export provisions from Grenada to Trinidad. 6958. Arc

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6958. Are provisions cheap there, then?—They are cheaper than at Trinidad ; J. A. Han key, Esq. I cannot state the price exactly. 6 March 1848. 6959. Can you suggest any alteration of the law that would tend to make the labour more continuous than it is?—I am not prepared to suggest any alteration of the law ; I think it requires a great deal more consideration of the circumstances than I have been able to give. 6960. Do you think, if you had a protection for a time, you could, after a time, compete with Cuba?—I think we could have competed with Cuba under the old system. 6961. Of slavery?—Yes; and I think, in all probability, if I have abundance of labour I may be able to reduce the cost of my production very materially; but I am not able to say what the cost of production in Cuba is. I have a general idea upon the subject, but nothing that I can state with confidence. I think there is great difficulty in ascertaining that point, because people get the cost of the production of very fine and fertile estates, and they assume that that is the general cost throughout the island. I am not without hopes that the cost in Cuba, now that the cultivation has been extended considerably, will turn out to be higher than has been usually stated. 6962. Do you imagine the land in Cuba is on an average decidedly better than the land in Grenada ?—No, I should think not. 6963. Do not they ratoon the cane there a great number of years ?—I do not know how much they ratoon ; that would vary with different localities. In Trinidad they can ratoon to a very great extent, I believe 20 years. The advantage of ratooning is not always so great as appears at first sight ; the plant produces so much more sugar than the ratoon. 6964. You would wish then for a large importation of labour from the coast of Africa, probably?—I think it would give us some chance of continuing our cultivation. 6963. You think with that you could compete with Cuba?—I hope so. I look with great dismay upon the present state of the West Indies. 6966. Do you think that would be the best chance?—I think it is the best chance. There is another source of remedy which will affect me personally, though perhaps it might not be so agreeable to all parties, and that is the ruin of a great number of the estates now in cultivation. 6967. You said that a large number of estates ought to be thrown out of cultivation under any circumstances?—I think they will be under present circumstances. 6968. Do you think if the law of 1846 had not been enacted, they could still have continued in cultivation ?—A large number of them would ; but some would, in any case, have been thrown out of cultivation. 6969. You think, without the law of 1846, your estates could have continued in cultivation ?—My estates would have given me a considerable profit without the law of 1846. 6970. You said you found that in the last year or two the produce was increasing?—Yes, it has been. 6971. You were just bringing the experiment of free labour into full work when the Act ol 1846 was passed?—Yes; the system, such as it is, was working better than it had done. 6972. That was partly, probably, because the labourers were getting more accustomed to free labour, and the masters were becoming more accustomed to employ free labour?—Probably, in some degree. As far as Grenada is concerned, part of the effect was from a diminution in the tendency to emigrate to Trinidad. 6973. Your people were inclined to emigrate to Trinidad?—Many went there, and others threatened it. 6974. Would not there be the fear, if the law of 1846 had not been enacted, that that emigration from Grenada would have continued ?—It had ceased in 1846. 6975. I suppose the price of labour in Trinidad had fallen to nearly the same as the price of labour in Grenada?—No, the price of labour was much higher in Trinidad ; but still the Grenada negroes preferred remaining in Grenada even at that price of labour, in consideration, I suppose, of the advantages they possessed in their own country. 6976. With respect to Worthy Park estate, you were asked some questions; 0.32. BB2 do

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do you think the misfortunes that happened to that estate had anything to do with free labour or slave labour; might not they just as well have occurred 6 March 1848. under any system ?—Not entirely; no doubt Mr. Price's difficulties were very much increased by his not being aware of the difficulties he had to contend with in managing a body of free labourers who were so entirely independent of him. 6977. Was not the great reason why the produce was so much less than he expected, that he had calculated his water-power as much greater than it really was ?—He had made a great error in his calculation of the water-power, and of the speed of his water-wheel, misled, I believe, by the engineer there. 6978. That error of judgment might have taken place under any circumstances? —Yes ; and if he had increased his cultivation on the assumption that he would have that power, no doubt he would so far have suffered equally. 6979. You were asked whether you had made a calculation as to what protective duty you would think sufficient ?—I am quite unable to say that; I do not know what effect protection would have upon us; it varies with every state of the market here. Previous to slavery, the protection which existed by law was no protection in fact, because we exported sugar; since the expiration of slavery we have had considerable protection. 6980. Were you connected with the estates before slavery was abolished ?— Yes, I inherited them. 6981. Do you remember the general condition of the West Indies in 1831 and 1832?—Yes, I believe I do. 6982. Was it prosperous or not prosperous ?—In 1831 there was a very low price indeed, which made it for that year unprosperous. As compared with the present times they were very prosperous. I believe if you were to take an account of the capital which had been invested on each estate, you would find that even then they gave a very inadequate return; it is impossible to ascertain what amount of capital has been invested on West India estates. 6983. Do you think in the long run you could compete with the East Indies and with the Mauritius?—It requires more knowledge of the price at which they can produce sugar than I possess, to express any decided opinion upon that subject; but judging from what I hear as to the Mauritius and the East Indies, I think we could. I do not mean to say that we could have done so since the emancipation, up to the present, but with improved means of cultivation, by more abundant labour in the West Indies, I think we might do so. 6984. Mr. M. Gibson.'] Will you explain how it is you make out that the price of 32 s. is requisite for you, if the cost of cultivation be reduced to 17 s.; the Committee have understood that the freight and charges from the West Indies to England may be covered by something like 5s. or 6s. ?—I stated that I thought the price of 32s. would enable me to continue my cultivation. 6985. The price of 32 s., in fact, would leave you, reckoning the freight and charges at 5s., a profit of 10s. ?—I think the freight and charges must be reckoned at 7 s. at least. 6986. In a report made by the directors of the Colonial Bank to their shareholders, they entered into the detail of this matter; and they said that the freight and charges would be covered, upon the average of years, by 5 s. or 6s.? —I cannot answer for the calculations of other people. The freight cannot be very materially lower in Grenada, because the freight includes the expense of drogherage. 6987. Taking 7 s. as the charges, a price of 32 s. would leave you a profit of 8 s. a cwt. ?—Upon the price of that particular year. 6988. Did not you say you had reduced your cost of cultivation per cwt. of • sugar to something like 17s.?—Because the quantity on which the expense was to be divided was increased. 6989. The price of 32s. would, in fact, leave a profit of 8s., would not it?— It would have done so this year. 6990. The actual price of this year being 24 s. just replaces the cost without producing any loss ?—Yes. 6991. Do not you consider that the price of the present year may be called a panic price, and may be a price depressed very much by the number of forced sales that have taken place in the market ?—The price at one part of the year may not improperly be called a panic price, but the price in the early part of the year was not so. 6992. What

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6992. What was the price in the early part of the year ?—I cannot tell with- J. A. Hankey, Esq. out referring to the averages, but I think it is stated to have been 10 s. above what I have put down, which makes 27 s. net. My sugar was not sold during 6 March 1848. the panic ; I withdrew it during the panic. When others were forced to sell for want of money, I thought it was time for me to hold. 6993• I understand that, on the whole, the year 1847 has been a very much worse year for the West India colonies than the year 1846 ?—I do not know how that is. 6994. You cannot say, with respect to the West Indies generally, whether the year 1847 has made a worse return than the year 184G did ?—I am not sure how that is; the produce of this last year has been much larger than the year before; at the same time the price has been much worse ; but, as the proceeds of this year were looked forward to with hope, during last year we were induced to go on advancing money on trust, looking to this crop for repayment. 6995. In 1846 there were 2,147,363 cwt. of West India sugar imported into the United Kingdom ; the average price that year was 34 s. lid.; you will find that that will give a sum of 3,686,306/.; in the year 1847 there was imported 3,186,390 cwt., the average price of 1847 was 28 s. 5 d. per cwt., that gives 4,527,329 /. as the value of the crop of 1847 ; deducting the former value, we have a difference of 841,023 /., as being the increased value of the crop of 1847 over the crop of 1846; is this increased value of the crop sufficient to have counterbalanced the increased cost of bringing a larger quantity to England, and the increased cost of manufacturing a larger quantity, and to leave a greater profit on the whole to the West Indian interests?—It is very difficult to answer suddenly a question of that nature. In the first place, I think you have to deduct from the one the freight and charges upon the larger quantity; there is a great difference in point of freight; the freight last year was extremely enhanced by the great demand for shipping which took place in consequence of the corn trade here ; a large portion of sugar in Trinidad was absolutely for a time left on the shore and destroyed in consequence of the want of shipping, so much so that though I usually send no ships to Trinidad, yet as I had a large amount of money due to me to be paid in sugar, taking alarm at the state of things, I sent out three ships, with orders that they should give the preference to any sugar which was coming to me, in order to bring it home. 6996. I have reckoned the increase of freight of 3 s. a cwt., and even then it leaves a balance in favour of the value of the crop of 1847 of 363,065 /. ?—That would go a very small way towards answering the expectation formed upon it, and paying the advances made in expectation of that crop ; we had been going on lor some years at a loss, in the hope that each advance made would be repaid by a subsequent crop. At one time we hoped that the crop of this last year would pay oil the balances of several years ; I was at that period a director of the Colonial Hank, and I know that we looked to this crop as the means of diminishing the balances very materially. 6997. There was an increased quantity of rum, was not there ?—On my estates there was a small increase. 6998. Was not there an increased quantity also from the West India colonies generally ?—I presume if there was more sugar there would also be more rum. 6999. Was not the price of rum high for a considerable portion of 1847 ?— I would rather not answer a question which depends upon statistics, which I have not in my head ; my impression is that the price of rum fell considerably last year. 7000. Did not rum sell for a considerable portion of 1847 at an increased price over 1846 ?—I can tell the exact fact as to my own prices ; the proceeds of the sale of 1847 were as good as those of 1846 ; but that was because the larger part of my crop was sold early in the year in the islands. 7001. Was not rum sold during the greater part of 1847 at a higher price than in 1846 ?—I am not aware of the fact. 7002. What was the price of rum in 1846?—The amount I received per gallon was 1.97 s. 7003. What was it in 1847 ?—2.1 s. 7004. That was sold in the West Indies?—I cannot say positively ; I think so. There was a deficiency in shipping, and we generally sell a considerable quantity of our rum in the West Indies. BB 3 0.32. 7005. Was

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7005. Was not a considerable quantity of rum sold here at 3 s. a gallon ?-—I cannot say. 6 March 1848. 7006. Yours sold at a much higher price?—At a somewhat higher price. 7007. You are not prepared to say that on the whole the profit obtained by the West India interest from their total importations in the year 1847, was less than the total profit received for their plantations in the year 1846 ?—I am not prepared to express any opinion upon it. 7008. Mr. Goulburn.] You have very extensive acquaintance with West Indian proprietors, have not you ?—Yes. 7009. With reference to the question which you have been just asked, do you know any proprietor who has made any large profits during 1847 as compared with 1846 ?—No, I know of but one estate upon which they have made any profits at all. 7010. Sir E. Buxton.] Do you think it possible to obtain a large supply of free labourers from the coast of Africa?—I can express no opinion upon the point; my opinions are formed solely upon the evidence I heard at the last African Committee ; I should rather apprehend that there was no expectation of large quantities, but I judge only from the evidence I heard in that Committee. 7011. Mr. Moffatt.] You have no local practical knowledge, have you, in respect of the West Indies ?—I was never in the West Indies. 7012. In the statement which you have laid before the Committee, the total expenditure appears to be considerably less on those six estates on which you have given in the Returns under free labour than in 1831 under slave labour?— Somewhat less; not considerably. 7013. Take the last year of free labour and the first year of slave labour ?—I have stated the items. 7014. The total outlay on the estate is nearly 1,500 l. less under free labour than under slave labour?—The total expenditure in 1831 is exactly 1,444l. more than it was in 1847, but upon a very different quantity of sugar. That is rather material, because in one case in return for my expenditure I received a larger quantity of sugar, whereas in the other I received only a small quantity. 7015. What is the difference of the quantity of sugar ?—The average of the eight years of slavery was 737 3/8 tons ; the average of the last eight years was 392 J. 7016. There was no misfortune attributable to Acts of Parliament in the years 1831, 1832 and 1833 ?—I expressed no opinion as to the cause. 7017. The years 1841, 1842 and 1843 were, as far as your experience goes, more unfavourable to the West Indian planters than 1845, 1846 and 1847 ? In 1842 I lost a considerable sum; in 1845, 1846 and 1847 I gained a small sum. 7018. Consequently, under the system of protection, you lost heavily, while under the system of free competition you have gained slightly. From this statement it appears that in the years 1841, 1842 and 1843, on your estate there was a loss of 3,300 /. At that time there was protection to the West Indian colonies In the years 1845, 1846 and 1847, there has been a partial abolition of that protection, and I find that instead of a loss of 3,300l. on those three years, there is a gain of about 600 I. ?—I do not state that; that is a conclusion drawn by the Honourable Member. We had protection during 1845 and 1846. It was diminished in 1847 ; in that year I made a profit of 9 I. 7019. You made a statement to the Committee, that during the time of slavery and apprenticeship, you valued your effective labour at 4/. per man ?—I stated the exact cost which was paid for the labour, in addition to the house and grounds. 7020. Could you favour the Committee with the estimates upon which that 4/. was arrived at ?—The average expenditure for negro labour, between 1831 and 1837 inclusive, was 3,209 l., which divided among 744 effective labourers leaves 4l. 6s. 3d. per man. 7021. You also stated that there were about 1,300 men, women and children altogether upon the estate ?—One thousand two hundred and six. 7022. Had you to maintain those who were ineffective?—That is included in the cost; dividing it amongst 1,206, it costs only 2 /. 13.v. 3d. per individual. 7023. That cost, I apprehend, is simply the cost of maintaining the slaves ?—It is all that was paid; it includes all expenses of every description which were actually paid, beyond furnishing them with a house and land. 7024. That is, dieting and clothing ?—And medical attendance ; every expenditure of every sort.

J. A. Hankey, Esq.

7025. Does

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7025. Does it include the value of the slave ?—No. J. A. Hankey, Esq. 7026. There was no charge for interest for capital embarked in the slaves ?— G March 1848. No. 7027. Nor does that calculation include any cost for the loss of life of the slave ?—The population was maintained ; there was no loss of life to include; there was no diminution. 7028. You stated that there was no practical protection to sugar, because there was no prohibition against the importation of sugar the growth of other countries, during the year 1831 ?—For a time there was no practical protection. 7029. We were, in fact, in that year an exporting country ?—I believe we were. 7030. Are you aware that nearly all that sugar that was exported was exported in a refined state?—I do not know the fact. 7031. You are not aware that it was exported in a refined state, and a considerable bounty paid upon the exportation ?—I am not aware of the fact; it may be so; I neither affirm nor deny it. 7032. You stated, in answer to a question from the Chairman, that there was a large portion of the estates which you thought under any circumstances must be thrown out of cultivation ?—I said that there was a portion of the estates which must be thrown out of cultivation. 7033. For what reason do you think they will be thrown out of cultivation? —The grounds of my opinion are, that I think since slavery there has been a new distribution of labour; that formerly slaves cultivated the ground which belonged to their owner, and that now those who have very fertile estates will attract the labour to them ; the others must go out of cultivation. I think also we shall not be able to get under any circumstances the large quantity of labour required to keep up that extent of cultivation which we had in former days. 7034. Your main reason for the opinion appears to be that the worn-out soils will go out of cultivation ?—I do not think that there are any worn-out soils ; the poorer soils will go out of cultivation. 7035. And the labour will be attracted to the richer soils ?—That is one of the reasons. 7036. I gathered from your evidence that the principal difficulty at the present time, of the West Indies generally, is want of capital?—I think quite otherwise. 7037. What do you believe to be the principal difficulty in the West Indies at the present time?—The deficiency and the high price of labour. 7038. With the low price of the article produced, when it comes to this country r —If you will give me a high enough price here I will not complain. 7039. Mr. Wilson.] Is there much difference in the quality of the land in the West Indies ?—There is a great variety. 7040. You think there would be a number of estates that would go out of cultivation sooner than others?—Certainly. 7041. Do you think that those estates which first went out of cultivation would leave a sufficient quantity of labour for the better estates to be cultivated ? —Not a sufficient quantity, but it would naturally tend to increase the quantity of labour for the better ones. 7042. It would depend upon the quantity of the estates that went out of cultivation ?—When an estate is thrown out of cultivation, though it tends to throw labour into the market, it does not do so to the full extent, because those estates are sold in pieces, and a certain number of the peasantry in the neighbourhood buy them and settle on them. 7043. W hat effect do you think a land tax would have in preventing the small sub-division of land ?—If you could throw the payment of the land tax upon the labourer, it might do so; but it would be very difficult to impose any sufficient tax of that kind with justice. 7044. Suppose the revenues of the island were collected by a land tax, instead of by import duties ?—I doubt whether that would have any material effect • it might tend to improvement. 7045. Supposing the present duties were taken off provisions, it would tend to lower the price of provisions ?—In Grenada they export provisions. 7046. What sort of provisions ?—The negro food. 7047. Flour and Indian meal, and such things?—I cannot state exactly what it is ; but plantains and manioc, and those sorts of things. BB 4 7048. It

192 J. A. Hankey, Esq. 6 March 1848.

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7048. It is the fact that a large part of the revenues of most of the islands is derived from the imports ? —It is so, in some places. 7049. Have you been successful in reducing the cost of sugar materially by the introduction of implements ?—Not so much so as I had anticipated, from the great difficulty of inducing the labourers, who are so independent in their position, to adopt any new mode of culture; and also from the fact that we have already employed ploughs to a great extent on those estates, to the details of which I have confined myself. 7050. You expect that the introduction of those implements will be more effective after they have been longer continued ?—I hope so. 70,51. Do you think you have not yet had sufficient trial of them?—We have had a considerable trial; we have ploughed for 30 years. I cannot say but that other improvements may arise there as well as here ; but it is a very difficult thing to make improvements with a population entirely independent, and who are not compelled to work for you. In the south of England you cannot introduce thrashing machines. 7052. Chairman.] Mr. Milner Gibson asked you how it came that the West Indies had not made a larger return from their larger crop of this year, though at a reduced price. You said about 8 s. a cwt. was the very lowest at which you could put the cost of freight and charges this year?—I can hardly express any opinion as to the amount of freight; it varied extremely ; it varied in every place and at every time; the arrival of one ship sent the price down; at one time you might get 7 s. freight, at another you might not get 4 s. far as the British West Indies are concerned, the very period when 7053. freights were highest was just the period when the British West India sugar was coming home?—It was so. 7054. Therefore this year, to say that the average freight and charges of various descriptions were 8 s., would be putting them very low ?—I should think too low. 7055. More likely 10s. ?—I should rather not express an opinion as to the amount. 7056. Mr. Milner Gibson showed that there were a million more cwts. in 1847 than in 1846 ?—I think Mr. Milner Gibson's figures would give 10s. as the freight and charges ; lie added 3s. to the ordinary charges ; 3s. added to 7s. makes 10 s. 7057. That at once gives half a million sterling as the increased charge for freight, &c. this year ?—It would do so. 7058. Has not the effect of this enormous importation of slave-grown sugar been to supersede the consumption of the West India sugar; and are there not about 39,000 tons of British sugar hanging over upon the market now ?—There is altogether a very large quantity of sugar in this market from different sources, which no doubt causes the present depression of price. As to the degree in which slave labour affects it more than other sugar, it is difficult to say. 7059. Is not it the fact that there have been 289,000 tons of British colonial sugar imported, and that there have been consumed but 250,000 tons, leaving 39,000 tons of British colonial sugar unsold?—I think your Lordship is correct, but I have not the figures before me. 7060. Taking Mr. Milner Gibson's figures, that would give upwards of a million sterling, which the colonists have not yet realized?—Yes. 7001. So that, in effect, when Mr. Milner Gibson took credit for the entire produce of the colonies this year having been sold at 28s. 5 d. a cwt., the fact is, there are remaining 39,000 tons that were not sold at the end of the year? — Yes, there is that sum not realized, and that I conceive to be one reason why the , price is so low. 7062. Mr. Milner Gibson has taken credit for that which is unsold being sold at the average price of last year ?—It will be sold no doubt at the prices, whatever they may be, which obtain in future. 7063. Mr. Wilson.'] Are you aware that there has been a larger quantity of British plantation sugar taken into consumption this last year than in any former year ?—I believe there has.

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591

Mercurii, 8° die Mar til, 1848.

MEMBERS PRESENT. Mr, Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr.

Lord George Bentinck. Sir Edward Buxton. Mr. Cardwell. Mr. Milner Gibson. Mr. Goulburn. Mr. Hope.

Labouchere. Matheson. Moffatt. Miles. Villiers.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK, IN THE CHAIR.

Commander Henry James Matson,

R. N.,

called in; and Examined.

7064. Chairman.'] YOU were employed for a great number of years on the African coast blockade ?—I was for six years. 7065. You can boast, cannot you, that you have captured nearly a tenth part of all the slavers that ever have been taken ?—I have captured a great many. 7066. You have captured 40 slavers, have you not ?—I have. 7067. Cannot you also state, with perfect truth, that there is probably no man in Europe who has seen so much of the west coast of Africa as you have ?— Few, J believe, have seen so much of its shores and rivers. 7068. Can you explain to the Committee in what way the difficulties of putting down the slave trade have increased of late years, and to what extent during the period when you were on the service ; you at one time had succeeded in putting it down ?—To go back to the year 1842, at which time I consider the slave trade to have almost ceased, owing to the measures which had been adopted by the Government, and the success of the cruisers there for two or three years previously. Since then I consider every step taken has been retrograde. The first great step we took was in the year 1839, when the Portuguese Slave Trade Suppression Bill was passed. That was the first great blow to the slave trade. The Government afterwards (1 841-42) issued orders to burn the barracoons, with the consent of the chiefs, if it could be obtained, which at that time was not at all difficult; it was, in fact,, very easy; and failing to obtain their consent in certain cases to do it without. It was, however, never requisite to do it without their consent, which was always obtained for a very trifling subsidy, a small annual subsidy, for five years generally, altogether amounting to a very little. 7069. Can you state of what amount those subsidies were?—From 100 l. a year. I do not think they ever amounted to more than boo/. per annum, for five years. 7070. With how many chiefs was it necessary to enter into those treaties ? —We succeeded, I think, at a rough guess, in somewhere about 10 cases of more or less powerful tribes. 7071. What was the value of the annual subsidies altogether?—I should think 3,000 I. was the outside of the amount; I know the sums were very small. 7072. For a payment of under 3,000/. a year you obtained the consent of the principal chiefs ?—I should say it was under that considerably. They engaged for that to suppress the slave trade, and in every one of those treaties there was a stipulation agreeing, that if they failed to fulfil the treaty, we should Those treaties the slave dealers themselves be allowed to employ force. advised the chiefs to enter into, inasmuch as they gave them notice that they could no longer carry on the slave trade; they entertained no hopes whatever that they should be able to bring any more goods to Africa on account of the measures of the Government and the burning of the barracoons, anil they believed that still more stringent measures would be taken. Two of the principal chiefs or kings of the country are the kings of Congo and Ambriz. 0.32. C c I should

Commander H. J. Matson, R.

8 March 1848.

194 Commander H. J. Matson, R.N. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

I should think those two places exported one-third or one-fourth of the slaves that reached Brazil. 7073. What was the extent of that coast ?—The exporting place at Ambriz is very small, but the roads converge there from an immense extent of country, even from the opposite shore of Mozambique. It is the exporting port of a vast extent of Africa ; at Congo, on the contrary, there is a large extent of coast, perhaps 150 miles, at any point of which you could embark slaves; a great many annually were exported from that place. In the year 1838, I believe there were 10,000 or 12,000 slaves exported from the neighbourhood of Congo alone. It was in the year 1842 that we engaged with those chiefs by a treaty to put down the slave trade, one of the stipulations being that we should employ force failing their fulfilment of the treaty. Before the first annual subsidy arrived, that unfortunate letter of Lord Aberdeen's appeared, and they then refused to received the first subsidy. 7074. Will you state to the Committee the nature of that letter?—It was dated 20 May 1842, addressed to the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty: " My Lords,—I beg to call your Lordships' attention to the subject of the instructions given to Her Majesty's naval officers employed in suppressing slave trade on the coast of Africa, and to the proceedings which have taken place with reference thereto, as detailed in the papers named in the margin of this letter. Her Majesty's Advocate-general, to whom these papers have been submitted, has reported that he cannot take upon himself to advise that all the proceedings described as having taken place at Gallinas, New Cestos, and Sea Bar, are strictly justifiable, or that the instructions to Her Majesty's naval officers, as referred to in these papers, are such as can with perfect legality be carried into execution. The Queen's Advocate is of opinion that the blockading rivers, landing and destroying buildings, and carrying off persons held in slavery in countries with which Great Britain is not at war, cannot be considered as sanctioned by the law of nations, or by the provisions of any existing treaties ; and that however desirable it may be to put an end to the slave trade, a good, however eminent, should not be attained otherwise than by lawful means. Accordingly, and with reference to the proceedings of Captain Nurse at Rio Pongas, on the 28th April 1841, as well as to the letters addressed from this department to the Admiralty on the 6th of April, the 1st and 17th of June, and the 28th of July of last year, I would submit to the consideration of your Lordships that it is desirable that Her Majesty's naval officers employed in suppressing the slave trade should be instructed to abstain from destroying slave factories and carrying off persons held in slavery, unless the power upon whose territory or within whose jurisdiction the factories or the slaves are found should by treaty with Great Britain, or by formal written agreement with British officers, have empowered Her Majesty's naval forces to take these steps for the suppression of the slave trade; and that if, in proceeding to destroy any factory, it should be found to contain merchandize or other property which there may be reason to suppose to belong to foreign traders, care should be taken not to include such property in the destruction of the factory. With respect to the blockading rivers, it appears from the papers referred to that the terms blockade and blockading have been used by British naval officers, when adverting to the laudable practice of stationing cruisers off the slave-trading stations, with a view the better to intercept vessels carrying on slave trade, contrary to treaties between Great Britain and the powers to which such vessels belong; but as the term blockade, properly used, extends to an interdiction of all trade, and indeed all communication with the place blockaded, I beg leave to submit for your Lordships' consideration, •whether it will not be proper to caution Her Majesty's naval officers upon this head, lest by the inadvertent and repeated use of the term blockade, the exercise of the duty confided to British officers in suppressing slave trade might, by any one, be confounded with the very different one of actual blockade." Of course that could not have been meant to be taken in the light in which it was viewed in Africa, because the slave traders exagger ated this letter to an enormous extent; so far from telling, the native chiefs that they would not be any longer enabled to carry on the slave trade, they represented to those chiefs and the natives of Africa that there was a revolution in England for the purpose of carrying on the slave trade. The story they told was this : that the people of England had risen en manse and obliged the

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the Queen to turn out Lord Palmerston, and that there was a revolution at Commander this time going on in England to oblige the Government to carry on the II. J. Malson, R. N. slave trade, as the blacks express themselves, "all the same as they had one 8 March 1848. time before." So confident was this belief, that on one occasion when my took boats a vessel full of slaves, at the time there being a change of Admirals, and consequently a change of flags, and they never having seen a blue flag hoisted before, the first question they asked when the boat boarded her, was whether this flag was the Queen's flag or the Parliamentary flag? The inquiry was made by an old Portuguese, who had been employed for several years on shore purchasing slaves; he, though a white man, believed that this story was true. 7075. Who was supposed to be for the slave trade, the Queen, or the Parliament?—The Parliament flag was the revolutionary flag. Shortly after that arrived the first subsidy of payment to those chiefs according to the treaty. In the meantime however this letter had appeared, and this story had been promulgated over the coast. Several vessels had arrived, for there was a rush made in the Brazils who could first arrive at the market, because the effect of this letter was so important, and it was as much misunderstood in the Brazils as in Africa. The insurance fell, I do not know how many per cent., but it fell a good deal. During the year before no man would embark a penny in the trade; freight and insurance however now fell, capital was forthcoming, and there was never any want of vessels or men so long as people would embark capital. The native chiefs hearing this, and seeing vessels arriving full of goods, which they had not seen for 18 months before, refused to receive the subsidy, and it was sent back to England ; that was a subsidy sent in goods, and not in money. It then became a question with the Government here whether they should enforce this treaty or not. I believe, by the advice of Dr. Lushington and some of the law officers of the Crown, the Government decided that they would not enforce the treaty. From that day we have not succeeded in getting one single treaty with any native chief. If we had succeeded, I have very little doubt, indeed I have none, that the slave trade would have been stopped. If that system could have been persevered in for one or two years, and the whole of the chiefs of Africa could have been induced to enter into treaties with England, containing a stipulation that you might use force failing their good faith, it would have been impossible for the slave trade to be carried on. I do not think a Brazilian or a Spaniard would have trusted goods on shore in Africa if they had thought that the English had a right to land and destroy them ; hut their danger afloat is very trifling. 7076. You think the danger afloat is very trifling?—It is now, because they can afford to lose many more vessels than they could then ; the price of slaves has increased very much, and there is a feeling both in Africa and in Brazil, that we are not determined, as they thought Ave or six years ago we were, to suppress the trade, and the British officer has not the power he formerly had. 7077. Is it your opinion, that under all the circumstances now, the state of things could possibly be restored to what it was in 1842 ?—It might he, of course, by force, but I consider the force required would be almost double what would have been then necessary. 7078. There are now 6,000 men, are there not, employed ?—There are 25 or 26 vessels. 7079. Twenty-six vessels we are obliged to maintain by treaty?—Yes; we never have had more than that. 7080. You think it would be necessary to double that force in order to put down the trade ?—To ensure it; no chief in Africa will relinquish the slave trade so long as he has any hopes of carrying it on ; it is only when he had relinquished all hopes that he would enter into a treaty, and it was that feeling which induced them in 1 841 and 1 842 to enter into those treaties. 7081. To the Brazils they prefer to carry their slaves in vessels of the smallest dimensions, do not they ; have not you captured, among others, a slaver that was no larger than your own launch, loaded with 72 slaves ?—Yes, an open boat, about the size of a frigate's barge. 7082. Are there a great many vessels of that description?—They began with those vessels, because they could elude the cruisers so much better ; they slip out unperceived, and can pull. 0.32. Cc 2 7083. If

196 Commander II. J. Matson, R. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

7083. If it is calm weather, they can use their oars ?—Yes. 7084. In proportion to the smallness of the vessels, so the privations of the slaves would be more severe?—Undoubtedly. 7085. You probably know what the usual amount of water allowed to a slave is?—They will set out on the voyage from Africa with a pint a man a day. 7086. Reckoning how many ; 20 days?—Perhaps 25 or 30 days. 7087. The allowance to a British seaman is a gallon a day?—Yes; his full allowance for all purposes. 7088. There is no doubt, is there, that the consequence of the British blockade and preventive service is very much to increase the privations to which those slaves are put?—Those who are taken across the Atlantic suffer more, no doubt, a great deal. The aggregate amount of misery would, however, be much greater, taking into consideration the great number that would be sent if the trade were open. 7089. It has been stated in evidence, that as far as last \ear goes, there were only about 2,88c slaves taken out of 100,000 that appear to have left the coast of Africa; so that it would appear that the proportion rescued was almost infinitesimally small, while the number of those whose tortures are aggravated was enormously great?—With reference to the last part of the question, I draw very little distinction between those who are captured and those who escape; both have to undergo an amount of misery. I am comparing the numbers that are brought now to the numbers that would go, supposing the trade to be open. All those who are captured, and those who go over, suffer much more privation, perhaps tenfold, than they would if the trade were open, and the vessels were not obliged to take so many. But it the trade were open, the honors of the middle passage would be transferred in an aggravated degree to the mines of Brazil. The life of a negro would then be scarcely worth a year's purchase. It would be economy for the owner of a mine to get the greatest possible amount of work out of a slave in a short time; in fact, to work him to death, then go to the market for another, and so on. 7090. You probably know what was the average number carried over when the slave trade was permitted to the whole world ; was it not about 72,000 a year? — It may have been so; but if the trade were now open, the demand would be much more than it was in those days. I do not speak with much confidence as to the state of the West Indies ; but supposing the trade now to be open, on account of the great market and the larger number of estates, the demand for slaves would be much greater than it was 30 years ago. 7091. You are of opinion, are not you, that the change in the laws of this country, admitting slave-grown sugar, has been one cause of very much stimulating the slave trade?—Very much: I was at Havannah when the news arrived. 7092. What was the feeling of the Havannah ?—A feeling of rejoicing universally ; the price of slaves very much increased, and so did the price of land. I saw both British merchants, slave merchants, and some of my old friends, the slave captains (i. e. British merchants, Spanish slave merchants, slave captains, &c.), :hev all told the same story, and the latter spoke with great glee. 7093. It was a day of jubilee there?—It was. 7094. Did you ever hear to what extent the value of land bad risen, and the value of slaves?—I did hear, but I cannot remember the exact amount. I know he increase of per-centage was something considerable. 7095. Did you go over any sugar plantations in Cuba?—No. 7096. You stated to me that no white man has visited so many creeks and ivers, or been ashore on so many different parts of Africa, as you have been?— I have visited every river, and every creek, from Sierra Leone as far south as the slave trade is carried on. 7097. Of course, having been so successful in the capture of slavers, and seen so much of slave traders and slave dealers, you are able to give some account of he origin of slave de aling; you are of opinion, are not you, that there never was a greater popular delusion than that slaves arc obtained by wars, and what are commonly called slave hunts:—There is seldom anything of the kind takes dace. on have paid great attention to that part of the subject, and you 7098. re able to give to this Committee a tolerably accurate estimate of the proportions,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 197 tions, find the modes in which slaves are obtained ?—I think, out of the number of slaves that are exported from Africa, one half are children who are sold by their parents. I think a quarter are debtors, who sell themselves, or are sold by their creditor; and the other quarter, I consider, are criminals ; a very trifling offence will cause a negro to be sold to the white man. 7099. It is your belief that the number of the slaves that are obtained as prisoners of war is next to nothing?—Yes; the only part of Africa where slave hunts may be said to exist are about the King of Dahomy's dominions, to the north of the Line, but a very small proportion of slaves are exported from that part of the country ; the principal supply of slaves is from the south of the Line, where no such thing as war is heard of; they are particularly averse to shedding blood; war among them is scarcely known, and even in their wars bloodshed is unheard of. 7100. It is needless to say that as half the slaves, in your opinion, are obtained through parents selling their children, there is no very great feeling of parental affection among the Africans?—It is all on the part of the mothers. I have seen, myself, heart-rending scenes of mothers being obliged to part with their children that were sold by their father; he is very doubtful whether it is his child or not: so much is that the case that a son never succeeds his father. For instance, if a King dies, the King of Congo, he is always succeeded by the eldest son of his eldest sister, to ensure the royal blood descending, which they could not do unless it descended through the female line. A man is not sure that any one of the children of his numerous wives is his son. 7101.-So that those men who sell their children, in point of fact are selling the children of a great number of wives?—Yes, selling the children of their wives; that is all they know, and they have no affection whatever. 7102. Can you state at all the average price of slaves?—I have seen them sold as low as a dollar a piece. I took a vessel once where the man assured me that he had bought 90 slaves the day before for too dollars. The number of slaves had increased very much on the coast; and in proportion as they increase on the coast the supply decreases in the Brazils; consequently they are always dearer in the Brazils when they are cheaper in Africa. Slaves being collected on the coast without any means of their being exported causes them to be very cheap indeed. 7103. What is the highest price you ever heard given?—I do not think the price is ever higher than 70 dollars; that is the highest I think I ever heard of a cargo of slaves being purchased at; from 10 to J 5 dollars a piece is a very common price. 7104. J hose are full-grown slaves, of course, who sell themselves for their debts. It depends upon what their debt is, does not it ?—Yes; a black man if he owes a dollar to any person, must sell himself by the laws of the country, to pay it; he generally will prefer selling himself to a white man, under the guarantee that he shall not be exported for a certain time, giving him the chance of paying his debt if he can. Even for a dollar sometimes a negro will come and sell himself to a white man. It is a kind of easy service ; lie remains there until he can pay his dollar, and then he is free. 7105. Do any of the white men take the slaves out of pawn, with a view to recover the money by their earnings, in Africa, or is not it always with the arrière pensée of exporting them ?—Many take them with the hope of increasing their debt, instead of allowing them to pay it off, and then export them. To do this they must take the slave before the king and [trove the fact that he owes them money, and then, by the laws of the country, they may take him away as soon as they please. It is a common custom among slave traders to induce the slave to sell himself, and instead of allowing him to pay off'his debt he increases it by being supplied with goods at the factory, which are always very tempting, and by that means the trader secures his person, and he is exported unless he can find some other person who w ill take him out of pawn, i. e. buy him off, which if the sum amounts to anything considerable he cannot do ; be can do it when the sum is small. 7106. Those are children, are they not, that arc sold by their fathers? Yes. 7107. Up to what age is the father entitled, by the laws of the country, to sell his child?—I do not know. I have seen them sold nearly grown up • I do 0.32. c c 3 * ' not

595 Commander H. J. Mat son, R.N. 8 May 1848.

198 Commander H. J. Matson, R. N, 8 May 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

not know whether there is any limit. I have an idea that they can sell them when they are men; I have seen strapping young men sold, of 15 and 16. 7108. The African is grown up when lie is 15 or 16, is not he ?—Yes ; he is as tall ot growth at 15 as he ever will be. 7109. The criminals of course are all full-grown people?—Yes. A man can always sell his wife. 7110. Is he generally willing to sell his w ife ?—It very often takes place if she offends him ; it is repeatedly done. 7111. A very large proportion of the slaves exported are males, are they not? —I should think about three-fourths ; the demand is so much greater for them; a woman is very much cheaper than a man. 7112. If a man is to be had for a dollar, what is a woman to be had for?— That is an exceptional case. If the price of the man were 15 dollars, the woman would be generally less than 10, I should think; but women are seldom exported unless they have served a considerable apprenticeship as domestic servants in the establishment of the slave factory. Girls and children are exported, but women are seldom exported, unless they be intended for domestic servants ; therefore they generally serve an apprenticeship, because they cannot speak the language. A woman being exported to Cuba or the Brazils is worth very little as a domestic servant, unless she can speak the Spanish or Brazilian language. 7113. You mean unless they have been apprenticed to Europeans ?—Serving the Europeans. 7114. Supposing a West India planter or a British merchant were permitted to go to the coast of Africa, and to obtain free labour upon emancipating the debtors, by entering into any arrangement for giving subsidies to the chiefs, what number of Africans do you think, in the course of a year, might be induced to emigrate as free labourers under contracts to the West Indies ?—I cannot speak very confidently upon that head ; but I should fancy that in the present state of things they would have very little chance. 7115. Coming into competition with the slavers?—Yes. If the slave trade were to cease, the supply would be almost unlimited ; they might get any amount; but I do not think they could compete now with the slave traders ; the chiefs would throw every possible obstacle in their way. 7116. Do not you think those chief's might be induced by sufficient subsidies very much to prefer the emigration of their people as free labourers, to the exportation of slaves?—You could, by a great amount of money, induce them to do so; but in proportion as the slave trade goes on, so will they be disinclined to enter into any arrangement with you whatever. 7117. With the exception of those who are obtained by being taken out of pawn from their debts, do you imagine the payment for all the rest goes to the chiefs ?— They get a great deal; they are despotic; the dues that are paid to them are enormous both by the exporter and the buyer, and it is the interest of the African chief to encourage the slave trade by every means in his power. 7118. Assuming the number of slaves exported to be 100,000 now, at an average of 15 dollars each, the whole payment made to Africa does not exceed 300,000 l. sterling a year?—I should fancy now that since the time I spoke of, within the last three years for instance, the price of a slave has very much increased ; not having been there I cannot speak positively, but I am almost sure the price of a slave must have increased now. 7119. Supposing it to have mounted up to 2,5 dollars, that would give nearly half a million a year as the entire payment for all the slaves exported from Africa? — It would. • 7120. Do you think there would be any objection on the part of the men to go in the ease supposed ?—No, I think not; the difficulty would be to inspire them with confidence ; if you could show to them that it was done by the Government, and they were sure of being able to come back again whenever they chose, they would be w illing to go ; but the difficulty would he to come at them in the face of their own chiefs, who would try to persuade them, and they would scarcely have a will of their own even if they chose to come ; if you could get at them even, and personally talk to them, and explain it to them, it would be very difficult for them to get away, the chiefs have such power. 7121. There would not be much difficulty, you think, in getting permission to export women as tree labourers? —I should say the chiefs would be likely to enter

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enter into that arrangement better than they would as respects the men, because Commander they would say, We will get rid of the men to the slave traders, and we will get rid H. J Matson, R.N. of the women to the English; but it would he a very dangerous experiment, 8 March 1848. I think; the danger would be very great of its merging into a slave trade; it might be done, no doubt, but it would require very great caution. 7122. Do not you think the existing laws of the country, which make slave trading a felony, coupled with the circumstance that the testimony of the Africans would be good evidence against the whites, would practically secure us from anything bordering upon a slave trade?—I have no doubt of it in my own mind, but the difficulty is, to make the Africans believe this ; I think the only difficulty would be, to make the Africans understand that they would be free in the West Indies ; if they could get to the West Indies their condition would be improved immensely. When I say it might merge into the slave trade, I mean it might be abused by those in Africa attempting to gain labourers. 7123. There is not, in your own opinion, any ground of alarm lest the permission of free access to British planters to obtain Africans might create any slave wars, or slave hunts, or any wars for the purpose of making prisoners?—No, it would create neither wars nor slave hunts, but I think abuses might take place; it might happen that a man might he forced against his will to leave Africa. 7124. But those would be exceptions, you think?—Yes. 7125. In what cases do you think those abuses would take place?—From the efforts of an agent on the coast of Africa to get a supplv of labourers, calling in, perhaps, the interference of the chief, and feeing him whose power is almost unlimited. 7126. If the African were dissatisfied with his lot he would very easily be able to prove against the merchant or planter who obtained him a case of slave dealing, would not he ?—No doubt of it; what would inspire confidence more than anything else in Africa, would be, if in a year or two any of those people could return, and could give an account of their situation there, and show that they were able to return when they chose. 7127. You think after that had taken place, the principal obstacles in the way of obtaining a large emigration of Africans would be removed ?—Partly, but an obstacle would still exist on the part of the chief, whose interest it is to stop that supply arid to encourage the slave trade, when he gets so much more by it. It is not, of course, to he expected that an African chief will relinquish the slave trade from any idea of its being morally wrong; you must touch his interest, and nothing else. 7128. Taking the coast of Africa generally, there is no difficulty, is there, except on the Kroo Coast, of getting as many women to emigrate as men?—The Kroo Coast is just the very case where you cannot get women. The women will never leave the country. 7129. From Africa generally, are there greater facilities for obtaining women than obtaining men ? — Certainly, at present. 7130. You said the Government subsidies were to he paid in goods; do not they know the value of gold and silver, or is it that there is so much gold to be had there ?—It is much cheaper for us to stipulate that it shall he done in goods ; in fact it was the order of Government that it should be always in goods; so many coats, so many muskets, and a little of everything ; even if the amount did not amount to 100/. yearly, there might be 20 different articles enumerated. 7131. Can you give the Committee any information upon the mode in which the slaves are usually [lacked in the shivers?—They are packed as closely as salt fish; they are doubled up and stowed as closely as they can in the night when they are obliged to go below. 7132. Are they in irons ?—The men are generally in irons; it depends upon the part of the coast they are taken from. 7133. The north coast is the most difficult, is not it?—Yes; in the Bight of Benin and Gallinas they are the most savage race. I have seen many cargoes from the neighbourhood of Congo go without any irons at all. 7134. The ordinary practice is, is it not, that where a slave trader calculates upon carrying 300 slaves to the other shore lie embarks 500 ? -Yes, that is lor the purpose of putting them to the test; it is impossible for the most c c 4

200 Commander H. J. Mutton, R. N. 8 March 1848.

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most practised eye to tell a healthy from an unhealthy slave, but tile trader reckons that during the first 48 hours those slaves that are unhealthy, and who would not stand the voyage across the Atlantic, will sicken ; and supposing the vessel will take 300 crowded he would put 500 on board, making sure that during the first 48 hours they will be sufficiently weeded to leave a prime cargo. As the slave sickens during the first 48 hours they leave him on deck, and give him nothing to eat, but let him die, and then throw him overboard. 7135. As soon as they begin to sicken they are put on one side?—Yes, weeding them, as it is called ; those who get over the first 48 hours will go across the Atlantic, and perhaps but one ot them dies in a week. 7136. Perhaps they sometimes throw them overboard before they are dead ?— Very probably. 7137. They die so soon because those of weak constitutions cannot bear the heat and crowding?—Yes, they would die if they were to leave them on deck; they would be afraid perhaps some of the crew informing against them if they were to kill them, and they say it is as well to let them die as to throw them overboard ; it is only the difference of a few hours ; they give them no food nor water. 7138. So that, in fact, they are allowed to die ?—Yes. 7139. Can you account for their sickening and dying so very soon ; if an European went on board, however sick he might be, he would not die so soon from going to sea ?—It is the change, and the effect of the crowding; they die principally from dysentery ; they cannot be fed so well, their victuals are not cooked so well, and the weaker their constitution the sooner they sicken; in fact it is the only means that a slave trader has of ensuring the taking a prime Of course the sickly slaves would not die so soon if they had cargo across. nourishment. 7140. What sized vessel would they embark 500 slaves in ; a vessel of how many tons?—I took a vessel with 427 slaves on board of 49 tons. 7141. Would she be an open boat?—A decked schooner; one-third, I suppose, were on deck, and two-thirds below ; the vessel I mentioned as having 72 slaves was 11 tons. 7142. If the trade were thrown completely open do you imagine there would be any such crowding as that ?—It does not stand to reason that there would. 7143. In order to elude the Equipment Articles under our Slave Trade Abo" lition Laws the slavers avoid as much as possible the necessity of having cooking utensils on board, and they are obliged also to keep their slaves so very short of wafer?—Yes; numbers of slavers go across without one-half of what are called necessary articles. The Equipment Articles contain a list of 10 different things, water, provisions, cooking utensils, and those things, which subject the vessel to seizure. On one occasion I took a vessel with nothing but water and dry farina on board ; they had no cooking utensils on hoard, not being able to obtain them on the coast, and they could obtain nothing but this dry farina, and with that they started across the Atlantic. 7144. How many slaves were there on board that slaver?—Three hundred and six, I think. 7145. Do you recollect the size of that vessel?—It was between 60 and 70 tons. I recollect they were not very crowded, comparatively speaking. But that is a solitary instance, and a man would never do it unless be were obliged; the chances were that one-half of those slaves would die. The dry farina would produce dysentery. . 7146. The way they make it wholesome is by boiling ?—By putting scalding water to it. 7147. This essel had no means to boil water at all? — None, but this was the only instance I found of a vessel being so utterly unprepared for a voyage. 7148. Supposing the blockade service on the coast of Africa were done away with, could an effectual blockade be carried on on the coast of Brazil?—No, I think not; the facilities for landing are so many; they have nothing to do hut to run their vessel on shore in the middle of the night, and they could save their slaves. There are a great number of vessels of all nations legal traders there, and it would be very difficult to distinguish between them. In Africa they have many mote difficulties in the way; they have first to approach the coast,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 201

Commander coast, and they then have to embark their slaves, which is always attended with very great difficulty. Then they must wet off with a calm lor three or four days. H. J■ Matson, R.N. At the Brazils there is a sea-breeze always blowing, and they could always run on 8 March 1848. shore, sacrificing their vessel to save their slaves. 7149. So that it would lie hopeless by any blockade of the coast of Brazil to put down the slave trade there ?-—It would require a great many vessels. 7150. Twenty-six vessels of war would not suffice?—I should say the extent of the coast of the Brazils being much smaller than that which we have to guard in Africa, the same number of vessels, or a few less perhaps, might blockade the coast of the Brazils, but even then I doubt the possibility of a strict blockade being maintained ; and it is of no use partially blockading a coast, because so long as a few escape, the only result is, that the price of slaves increases, but the supply is still kept up. The African chiefs drive a very good trade, the market is still supplied, and the only difference is the slave being dearer or cheaper; it is only when the slave trade lias been absolutely stopped for some considerable time that the chief w ill abandon all hopes of its being carried on, and he will then, and not till then, enter into a treaty to stop it; the object of putting a squadron on the coast of Africa, I consider was only the first step to ensure those treaties being entered into. It was not to be supposed that the squadron was to last for ever; if you could absolutely blockade the coast and stop the trade for two years, those men would then enter into treaties with you, which they did between 1840 and 1842, since which time we have not obtained one. 7151. You do not think that anything that can be done now would induce them to enter into those treaties again?—I think not; I have conversed personally with a great many of them, and I do not think they will, with their present prospects. 7152. Were you engaged on the eastern coast of Africa at all?—No; I was there a good many years ago, but I was not commanding a vessel. 7153. I heard from a Brazilian slave dealer that a great number of the slaves now imported to Brazil were taken from the eastern coast of Africa ?—I have heard a report of the same kind, because we have not guarded that recently; our treaty with France said nothing about that. 7154. Then if we were to increase our blockade service, even to the extent of doubling it, perhaps that would not be sufficient to include the eastern coast of Africa?—I think it would. I put down the French squadron now as nothing ; they are absolutely worse than useless ; they are not only useless, hut they do more harm than good. But if we had treaties with the chiefs, the united efforts of England and France would ensure success. 7155. What is your opinion of the African race in Africa; are they indolent, or disposed to be industrious?—They are remarkably well-disposed; the most docile people, but indolent. 7156. Do you make any exception to that as regards the people on the northern parts of the Bight of Benin?—They are more warlike, and more intelligent, and work harder. 7157. What is your opinion of the Kroomen?—I consider that they are the best; they are the most hard-working, the most energetic, and the most thrifty. 7158. And the Fishmeu are something of the same kind?—I consider them, in fact, as the same race. 7159. What number of free labourers, do you think, would be to be obtained from the Kroo and the Fish Coast ?—I think many. I recollect making inquiry there, and their complaint was that they were afraid of their not being able to get back again ; in fact at that time there were Kroomen in Jamaica, and their countrymen could not get them back again ; they had sent some message that Government would not let them go, which prevented any more Kroomen at that time leaving Africa. I do not think, however, that the Kroo country could supply the demand, because it is of very small extent; the actual supply would be small. 7160. What might be its number; Captain Denman thought less than 1,200 a year ?—I do not suppose we could get more than that, it is so small a place. 7161. And they would be men only, and no women?—Men, and no women. I saw a number of Kroomen in Jamaica, the other day, men that I had known 0.32. D D on

202 Commander H. J. Matson, R. N. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

on the coast of Africa, who expressed themselves very much pleased with their position; but they made a complaint of the expense of going back to Africa; that they were then saving money, but when they went back to Africa so much of it would be taken for their passage. No other than a Krooman would ever desire to return to Africa, after having once been employed in the West Indies. 7162. Do you think if those Jamaica Kroomen were sent to other parts of Africa they would be able to enlist a number of Africans to go out as free labourers?—I think so, from their own country. 7163. Though not known individually to the natives of other parts of Africa, if Kroomen were employed to enlist emigrants they would succeed, you think ? —Not in any other part. Kroomen are looked upon as the servants of the English ; and they would be considered as our servants or our agents. But there are many Africans from all parts of Africa now serving in the West Indies. 7164. Liberated Africans?—Yes. 7165. You think if liberated Africans were sent they would succeed in inducing free labourers to go, if the chiefs could be rendered willing?—Yes. Where the chiefs have less power the negroes have always shown more readiness to go to the West Indies. On my being ordered to England I had 10 liberated Africans serving on board my vessel; each of those men had from 20 I. to 70 /. due to him : they preferred going to the West Indies either to going to Sierra Leone or going back to their native country. They said if they went back to their native country all the money they had would be taken by the chiefs, and if they went to Sierra Leone they could not make such good use of it. They went, ultimately, to Demerara. It was only from meeting, in one of the immigration ships, some returned natives, who gave them a very flattering picture of everything they had seen in Demerara and the other islands. 7166. You do not doubt that it would be a great blessing to Africa if the free immigration of Africans to the West Indies could be in any way promoted ?— I have no doubt of it. 7167. The condition of the African would be incalculably improved ?—N° doubt of it, but it does not do to lose sight of the influence that it would have upon the slave trade in Africa. I am supposing that everything was free; that the slave traders were free to make their bargains, and the English to make theirs. 7168. Supposing England were to return to the old policy of excluding slavegrown sugar, would not that be a great check to the trade ?—That would take off one very great impetus to the slave trade. 7169. And then probably the slave trader would hardly be able successfully to compete with a British West Indian, who came to entice away free labourers? —I should fancy that the slave trader would always be able to offer a better price to the chiefs, who are so omnipotent that they would frustrate your efforts even then; but there could be no question if that were done, if our ports were shut to slave-grown sugar, it would render the exertions of the officers on the coast of Africa very much more effectual to suppress the slave trade. The slave traders could not afford to lose so many vessels, and the moral effect of admitting slave-grown sugar is something even in Africa, though it is very much exaggerated by the slave traders. The chiefs are easily made to believe, and I dare say now fancy, that there is some revolution going on here, and that we shall one day carry on the slave trade. 7170. Do not you think it might be possible to enter into a treaty with the chief of Ambriz by giving to him a subsidy, say equal to 20,000 l. a year, that he should forbid slave trading and encourage the British merchants to come and take his people?—It would be very beneficial if you could also get similar treaties with bis neighbours; although that is the principal exporting place it would be of no use having a treaty, or paying considerably for it, unless you could get the chiefs of Congo and those chief's some distance off to join, because they could march them some hundreds of miles. 7171. Ambriz I understand from you to be the principal place of export?— Yes. 7172. Supposing subsidies equal to 50,000 l. a year were divided between the chiefs of Ambriz and Congo, do not you think they might be induced to

enter

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 203 enter into a treaty with the Queen of Great Britain ?—£. 50,000 a year would do a great deal. 7173. Assuming that a subsidy of 50,000/. a year were paid, and distributed between the chiefs of Ambriz and Congo, and they agreed to give lull power to Great Britain to use any means she pleased to put down slave trading, and to make it a casus belli with the chiefs themselves if they permitted the slave trade to go on ; and that at the same time if the British West India planters were permitted free access to their kingdom, for the purpose of enticing away as many emigrants as they could get to go away ; what number of Africans do you think then that British planters and British merchants might succeed in enticing away from those kingdoms as free labourers ?—It is a very difficult question. If you could prevent their being exported as slaves, I suppose you might get 20,000 a year from Congo alone. 7174. And from Ambriz?—There they have to come a great distance. I do not suppose there would be nearly so many, although more slaves would be exported from Ambriz than from Congo, because so many roads converge to the place, and they come from a long way in the interior; in Congo they come from the banks of the river, which is close to the sea. It is more a restrictive policy at Ambriz. It would be much more difficult to get free labourers from Ambriz, because a man must go into the interior; but, I should say, you might get from 10,000 to 12,000 a year. 7175. Another 10,000 a year, you think, might be got from Ambriz ?— I should think so. I speak with less confidence as to Ambriz. 7176. Are you disposed to think that for 50,000 l. a year we might ensure 30,000 emigrants of that sort, bona Jide free labourers ?—Supposing that you could prevent the slave trade. 7177. Supposing that they were to give to you those full powers, which you are inclined to think, for 50,000/. a year, the chiefs might be disposed to give ? —Yes; not only the power to stop their subsidy, but to destroy their barracoons and factories. 7178. Quite a different class of vessels is required to carry on the trade to Cuba, is not there ?—They must be a much finer class of vessels, and not so crowded. A vessel would go to the Brazils with double the number of slaves than she would go with to Cuba. 7179. The length of the voyage is nearly double, is it not?—Yes; and the weather is so much more boisterous; they have to prepare for strong gales of wind in the voyage to Cuba, while to the Brazils they have nothing but to traverse the trade wind, which is always fair. 7180. What do you think would be the most advisable course to pursue with regard to Cuba ?—Two years ago there was no such thing as a slave trade in Cuba; it is only within this last twelvemonth that there has been any slave trade whatever. 7181. It is the alteration of the law that has produced it?—Yes; it is the alteration in the demand for their sugar. That has affected Cuba much more than it did Brazil, because they could not afford to carry on the slave trade; at Brazil they could, because they did it at so much less cost; they gave next to nothing for an old vessel, and very few hands could navigate her; while from Cuba it required a fine vessel, well manned, to take very few slaves. Eighteen months ago, I think for a year before that, there had not been more than one or two solitary instances of slaves being landed in Cuba. 7182. In your opinion, the resurrection of the slave trade in Cuba is to be ascribed entirely to the stimulus given by the alteration in the laws admitting slave-grown sugar ?—In Cuba I think so, entirely. 7183. Do you think it would be possible effectually to blockade the coast of Cuba?—That is utterly impossible. 7184. The most effectual way of putting down the slave trade would be to take possession of Cuba itself?—Yes. 7185. Do you think if you had the fleet that was last year in the Tagus, you could very soon do so ?—Much less than that. 7186. If half the fleet that was last year in the Tagus were put under your command ?—Less than that. In fact, you have nothing to do but to land two black West India regiments in any part of Cuba. 7187. Under the existing treaties with foreign powers, are not vessels fitted out to bring labourers from the Kroo Coast liable to capture?—It would be a 0.32. prima DD2

601 Commander H. J. Matson, R. N . 8 March 1848.

204 Commander H. J. Matson, R. N. ' 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

prima facie reason for capture; but if you could prove that they were intended for legal purposes, they would not be liable to be captured. They would require a certificate from the custom-house, to pass. 7188. I am asking this question by desire of a Member of the Committee; I apprehend that the fact would be this, that no captures can be made except under instructions from the Admiralty ?—A foreign vessel (say a Spanish vessel) could capture an English vessel with all or any of those articles specified in the Equipment Articles on board, or any one of them, provided she were not furnished with the legal document. 7189. What legal document is it necessary she should have to save her from capture?—She must enter into a bond that those articles shall not be used for the purpose of slave-dealing. 7190. A Portuguese or an American would not have had a right to capture the " Growler" ?—No foreign vessel has a right even to look at her, i. e. to go on board her, because she carries the Queen's pennant. Supposing she had been a merchant vessel, if she had not been provided with the legal documents, showing that the owner or the master had entered into security that those articles should not be employed for slave-dealing purposes, she would be liable to capture, and the onus is then thrown on the master to show that those articles are required for legal purposes. 7191. Taking the" Bangalore," or any of those ships which have been chartered for the Kroo Coast, what security do they carry against being captured either by American or Portuguese vessels?—The owner must enter into a bond before they go out, at the custom-house at Liverpool, for instance. 7192. And I suppose they do so?—We very often meet foreign vessels with every article of equipment on board, taking emigrants from America to Liberia, and we are not suffered to touch them. 7193. Or, if they were taking free labourers from the Kroo Coast, you could not touch them ?—Provided they have this necessary document on board, you cannot touch them. 7194. I am also desired to ask you what becomes of the slaves who are refused by the slave traders ?—I have known instances of their being massacred ; I was in the River Nun some years ago when 500 were knocked on the head on the beach. 7195. The emigrant ships always have a licence from the Secretary of State now; that would suffice, would not it; no foreign ship could touch them?— The treaties say the Custom-house; I suppose the Secretary of State's licence would be sufficient. Even supposing a vessel accidentally sailed without this document, and were found with every necessary article of equipment on board, she would be liable to be taken into port by any authorized cruiser belonging to a foreign nation ; then, to save her from being condemned, the captain must prove that all those were required for a legal purpose; the onus to prove it must be thrown on the master; if he could not prove it his vessel would be condemned ; that is, supposing he sailed without these documents. We have captured vessels precisely situated in that way, where they had every article on board necessary for carrying cargoes of slaves, but they have shown to the satisfaction of the Court that they were required for legal purposes, and they have been released. 7196. Mr. M. Gibson.] You say that slaves that are refused by the slave dealers are massacred ?—They are sometimes; I will not say it is the rule; I know instances of their being so. 7197. Would not it be contrary to the existing Acts for the abolition of the slave trade by British subjects to purchase slaves on the coast of Africa, to be transported thence to the West Indies as labourers ? — No doubt it would be felony. 7198. Mr. Hope.] What security have you for the observance of any treaty made by any of those chiefs you have spoken of?—You have no guarantee except withholding the subsidy and enforcing one of the stipulations whereby you are authorized to put the trade down by force, to land in bis territory and destroy the barracoons and the goods contained there. 7199. You cannot place much reliance, can you, upon their good faith ?—You must, act through their interests and their fears alone. 7200. Mr. Villiers ] Did you say it would not require more vessels to blockade the

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 205 the coast of Brazil than the coast of Africa?—I should fancy it would require rather less, being a less extent of coast. 7201. Are the places where they can embark slaves on the African coast very numerous ?—No. 7202. They are very few ?—They are very few ; in some seasons of the year along the beach on the south coast you can embark them from the beach at any time. 7203. What is the difficulty of cruising about those particular places where only slaves can be embarked ?—That is the plan that is pursued, or ought to be pursued, at all events. 7204. The extent of the coast is not so material if there are only certain places to embark slaves from?—The coast is more extensive than the coast of Brazil; I should say the extent of coast where slaves can be embarked is more extensive than the coast of Brazil. 7203. If I understand you, the usual places for embarking slaves from the coast of Africa are very few ?—The extent of the coast where slaves can be embarked, compared to the whole extent of the slave-trading coast of Africa, is very small. 7206. Are there more than six or seven places where they usually embark slaves from ?—There are perhaps from 16 to 20 depots, but then there is a line of coast perhaps of some 50 miles, where slaves can march along the coast and be embarked at any one spot in the 50 miles. 7207. Is not it the system of the squadron there to observe those places particularly ?—Certainly. 7208. Then the squadron is sufficient for that purpose, is not it?—I do not think it is now ; I do not think the squadron was ever sufficient to blockade the whole coast of Africa ; 26 vessels, putting aside the French vessels, w hich are worse than useless. 7209. Do you think 26 vessels could blockade the coast of Brazil ?—I should think it would take 36 vessels to do so. 7210. We no longer blockade that coast, do we ?—The demand for slaves has been so increased lately that it would be difficult to say which coast ought to be blockaded ; I think one coast ought only to be blockaded ; either thoroughly blockade the one or thoroughly blockade the other. It is of no use doing it by halves. 7211. When were our cruisers withdrawn from the coast of Brazil?—Three or four years ago. 7212. Do you know whether it is during the last three years that the slave trade has increased so very much ?—Undoubtedly. 7213. Do you know whether it has increased to such an extent as to lower the value of slaves in the Brazils?—I have understood that at this moment slaves are cheaper on account of the great number they have imported into the Brazils. I do not speak from my own knowledge, not having been there. 7214. While there were cruisers there, it must have increased the difficulty of landing the slaves?—The cruisers on the coast of Brazil, I think, very little indeed increased the difficulty of the slave trader; they had nothing to do but to land, and if they sacrificed their vessels, they were sure of saving their slaves. 7215. Could they land at any part of the coast?—In all the creeks. 7216. Since the vessels have been withdrawn, the slave trade has been going on, in fact, and it has increased very much; is not that the fact?—It has; but I do not think that is consequent on the withdrawal of the cruisers from the coast of Brazil, and putting them on the coast of Africa. I think they have done more good on the coast of Africa than they did on the coast of Brazil. 7217. Do you know anything of the Brazilian coast?—I have been there. 7218. Have you any knowledge of the way in which the slave trade is conducted there ?—I know that from seeing the coast it is not difficult to land any cargo of slaves ; the difficulty is in saving the vessel. 7219. You have been acting upon the African coast?—Yes. 7219*. Mr. Hope.] You cannot run in your vessel after theirs, can you?— No; you can take possession of the vessel, and they care very little for that. They give you the vessel, and they save their slaves. 7220. You cannot afford to sacrifice your vessel to catch theirs ? No nor even

risk

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7221. Mr.

603 Commander II. J. Matson, R. N. 8 March 1848.

206 Commander H. J. Matson, R. N. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

7221. Mr. Villiers.] You have some knowledge of the way in which the slav trade is carried on upon the coast of Africa?—Yes. 7222. Do the slave traders exercise any discretion in the choice of the slaves which are offered to them by the natives ?—They examine them very minutely. 7223. And they select the best ?—Yes, they give the best price for the best slave. 7224. Do you know what becomes of the slaves who are refused by the slave traders ?—I know instances of their being killed; but except when the numbers increase very much they are always of some little value, therefore it is only in very hard times that they are obliged to massacre them. 7225. They are killed on occasions when it does not answer to keep them ? —That is the reason. 7226. Are they used as slaves by the chiefs?—They are used for working; they do a certain amount of work. 7227. Do you know anything of the treatment of those which are not sold to the slave traders; is that a very hard condition ?—They get much less to eat 'from the blacks than they do when they are in the hands of the slave traders; they are fed better by the white men than by the blacks. 7228. There are no slave owners other than those African chiefs, on the African coast, are there ?—There are black merchants, " Gentlemen," as they call themselves. , 7229. Do they ever purchase slaves?—Yes; their wealth often consists in slaves. 7230. Do those African chiefs consider that they have the power of life and death over their slaves?—Yes; they have possession of the power of life and death over every one of their subjects, I think. 7231. When they kill them, do they kill them openly, without fear of punishment ?—Yes; in the river Nun there were 500 knocked on the head on the beach ; that is eight or ten years ago. 7232. If Great Britain allowed its subjects to resort to the coast of Africa to purchase labourers, or to obtain them by subsidizing the chiefs, and Brazil and Spain allows theirs to do the same thing, nominally for the purpose of procuring labourers, but really to enslave them, that would be the same thing ?— I have already stated that great abuses would be likely to take place. 7233. If Great Britain allowed its subjects to purchase labourers ?—They would not be allowed to purchase, I take for granted. 7234. If they were allowed to contract with the chiefs to procure labourers? —That would be a kind of slave trade, I imagine. 7235. Supposing Great Britain allowed its subjects to give subsidies to the chiefs to procure them labourers to go to the West Indies, would not that be pretty much the same thing as Brazil and Spain making their contracts with the chiefs to procure them labourers, intending, when they obtained them, to enslave them ?—There is very little difference, suppose you do it through the African chief. 7236. You do not believe that there is any willingness on the part of those labourers to come for anybody, either for a Spaniard or an Englishman, to work in a foreign country ?—If you can inspire them with confidence many will go very willingly. I quoted an instance just now. When I was ordered* to England I had 10 liberated Africans working on board my vessel, and each of them had from 20 I. to 70 l. due to him for wages; they preferred going to the West Indies in a vessel which was waiting at St. Helena, either to returning to Sierra Leone or to their own country. 7237. Do you know enough of the intelligence or of the opinions of the African population to say whether they have any apprehension of going to a a foreign country from knowing the treatment they are subjected to in slave countries?—They have such apprehensions, certainly; they mistrust the white men. 7238. And they would mistrust any one who wished to contract with them? Yes, unless he could bring good evidence in the shape of some of their own countrymen who already live in the West Indies; that is one means of inspiring them with confidence. 7239. It would not inspire them with confidence if any contract or arrangement was made with the chiefs?--—I think it would be very objectionable to do anything of the kind through the chiefs. 7240. The

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 207 7240. The labourers would not trust a chief who pretended to negotiate with a foreign country to send them out as labourers ?—No, they would rather trust some British official even than a chief; they have that sense of discriminating. 7241. Do those people discriminate in their own minds between countries where there is slave labour and countries where there is free labour?—Yes; they know very well that there is a difference between the English and the Spaniards. 7242. Do you consider that it would be dangerous, as an example to slave trading nations, for Great Britain to derive its labourers from any part of the coast of Africa, except those which were under its own government ?—If you could by any means induce those people to go voluntarily, without entering into any engagement through the chief, I think it would succeed ; that is, that you would obtain a great amount of labourers. 7243. Do you think that British subjects could go any where but to someplace under British Government, and get the confidence of the labourers sufficiently to induce them to come with them to the British colonies?—There are places undoubtedly ; the Kroo country is one, Congo is another. 7244. Those are countries where the numbers are very few, are not they?—In Congo they are very numerous; the country is very thickly populated ; the people are very well disposed, and they know sufficient of Englishmen to tell the difference between Spaniards and Englishmen. 7245. The Kroomen are among the people that are very mistrustful, are not they ?—They do not mistrust you at all. 7246. They would come willingly without the view of returning to their own country, would they ?—No ; you must inspire them with confidence ; the Krooman would be more particular in his stipulation than any other man. 7247. Do you believe their number is unlimited?—The Kroomen are very few; from Congo you might get a good many. 7248. Are they equal to the Kroomen ?—No, I do not think they are equal to them. 7249. Do you think they are sufficient to supply our colonies with labour ? — You might get a great number, perhaps 12,000 from that spot alone; that is supposing the slave trade had ceased; the chiefs would throw every difficulty in your way if they could carry on the slave trade. 7250. I understand you to say that you think we cannot put down the slave trade by our squadron there ?—I do not think that the squadron is sufficient. 7251. If the squadron is withdrawn, you have no doubt that the slave trade will go on more briskly than at present?—No doubt about it; and as the slave trade increases so would your chance of obtaining labour decrease. 7252. Therefore to get this unlimited supply of labour it is necessary to stop the slave trade somehow ?—Yes. 7253. Mr. Miles.] What number of men actually could be obtained from the coast of Africa, do you think ; do you think 30,000 or 40,000 a year might be obtained ?—Supposing the slave trade ceased, I have no doubt you might get many more than is necessary for all the West India islands. 7254. Do you think any could be obtained from the east coast of Africa?— The voyage is the difficulty, I suppose ; they would go without any hopes of going home again. 7255. The slave trade is carried on on the east coast, is not it ?—Yes ; we have had few cruisers there, I believe; more have been sent lately. 7256. Do you know how many there are now ?—Three or four. 7257. A number perfectly useless, probably?—Yes, any number is useless which cannot stop it. It is of no use having a few, because you only increase the price of slaves in the slave market. The point you want to arrive at is, to prevail upon the native chiefs to enter into arrangements with you, and they will never do that so long as they can export slaves. 7258. Are you aware that steps are being taken in Brazil to carry on the slave trade with the east coast now?—For the last three or four years they have had a constant supply from the east coast. 7259. Do you think that the principal number of those slaves are derived from the east or the west coast ?—Chiefly from the west coast, no doubt; Mozambique, and that coast of Africa, could not give the supply. The supply from the south coast of Africa (that is, the coast south of the Line,) is almost unlimited. D D 4 0.32. 7260. Have

605 Commander H. J. Matson, R.N. 8 March 1848.

208

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Commander 7260. Have you ever considered whether it would be possible with the GoH. J. Mat son, R. N. • vernment of Brazil to stop the slave trade ?—I think so ; indeed I have no doubt 8 March 1848.

of it. 7261. Would not that be a very effectual means of stopping it?—No doubt; that is what we have been striving for a long time. Thev are safe now directly they put their foot on shore. If the Brazilian government chose to seize them it might be very easily done. 7262. What effect would it have upon the people engaged in that trade if the slave trade, by all nations, was declared piracy ?—That would be a very effectual means, if all nations could be induced to concur in it. 7263. Do you know anything of the coast of Cuba ?—I have been on the station for two years. 7264. Do you think it is impossible to stop the slave trade by having vessels upon that coast ?—Quite impossible. 7265. What number of vessels do you think would be required ?—Perhaps three or four times the number required for the coast of Africa. 7266. Mr. Labouchere.] What makes that great difference?—The extent of coast is so much greater; the island is about 2,000 miles round, at any part of which you could embark slaves ; but the Governor-general of Cuba can always prevent it if he pleases. 7267. Mr. Miles.] Have you ever considered Captain Denman's plan for stationing vessels within sight of the spot where the depot of the slave-dealer is ?—I never saw the plan, but I think six or eight years ago the number of vessels that was proposed might have prevented it, because then we had treaties with the chiefs. 7268. Do you think the vessels now on the coast of Africa are sufficient in a sailing point of view, or would it require steamers, do you think?—I think a steamer is of more use than a sailing vessel; it will cost more money, but I should fancy if you only looked to the amount of money it is necessary to expend upon that service, you should have as few steamers as possible and increase the number of small sailing vessels. 7269. Do you think it would be most desirable to increase the sailing force or the steam force for the actual suppression of the slave trade ?—I should say increase the sailing force. 7270. Are you prepared to say to what amount?—I recollect giving a plan bv which I thought 33 vessels would actually stop the slave trade on the coast of Africa. 7271. Of what class?—The smaller the vessel the better for economy's sake. The sailing vessels are generally more healthy than steamers ; a portion of steamers are absolutely necessary. I should say, perhaps, that now 4,5 vessels would be necessary absolutely to stop the trade, and it is of no use doing anything unless you stop the trade. 7272. Supposing you had entered into treaties with those chiefs to subsidize them, do you think those chiefs would respect the terms of the treaties?—If you could make it their interest to do so. 7273. Do you think you could do so ?—Yes. Supposing one stipulation of the treaty was that you might use force, you could always enforce it. 7274. Would the power you have upon the spot be sufficient to enforce it ? — Yes ; but that would not be necessary, because no merchant would trust his cargo of goods on shore in Africa, if he thought the English had the power to land and destroy them. 7275. Mr. Labouchere.] Is the Committee to understand that it is your opinion, that with regard both to economy and to efficiency, it would be desirable rather to increase the amount of sailing vessels employed on the coast of Africa, than the amount of steam-vessels ? —I think so. A great mistake, I think, was made a few years ago, by sending out large vessels. I was told it was in consequence of the Foreign-office making a request that no officer under the rank of commander should be employed on the coast of Africa; there had been several mistakes made by lieutenants in command of vessels, and that obliged them to send a much larger class of vessels, which has doubled the expense. The same class of vessels that were formerly employed on the coast of Africa, commanded by a lieutenant, with a crew of 60 men, are now commanded by a commander, with two lieutenants and a crew of 80 men. They

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They are consequently much more expensive; they are not nearly so efficient, Commander and cannot be so healthy as formerly. H. J. Matson, R. N. 7276. Do you mean that if the squadron on the coast of Africa were increased in the manner that you have described, the slave trade would, in your 8 March 1848. opinion, be absolutely and completely put an end to?—I think that would be the best step ; if you could stop the slave trade for two years that would induce those chiefs to enter into a treaty with you in the manner they did six or eight years ago; but they will not enter into such a treaty till you have succeeded for a time in stopping the slave trade. Then, having succeeded, it will not be necessary to keep that large squadron upon the coast; one-quarter of the number will do after you have once succeeded in engaging the chiefs in those treaties. 7277. Is there at present an indisposition on the part of those chiefs to enter into such treaties ?—Ever since Lord Aberdeen's letter there has been. 7278. Are there no instances of such treaties having been made?—Never since that letter appeared. In fact, in the case of the two last treaties that were made, two of the most important chiefs refused, on seeing that letter, to receive their first year's subsidy. It then became a question with the Government whether they should enforce the treaty or not; and it being referred to, I believe, Dr. Lushington, and some of the officers of the Crown, the Government decided that it should not be enforced. 7279. Does the authority of each of those chiefs extend over a considerable extent of country ?—Over a very large extent. Ambriz is a small place, but it is the outlet to a very large portion of Africa; roads converge to it from a great many points, even from the opposite coast of Mozambique. The country is a thickly populated country, and exports a great many slaves. 7280. Is their authority sufficiently great to enable them to enforce any regulation they may desire to see carried into effect ?—Their power is almost unlimited ; but the fear those people would have would be of the English, and not of the chiefs in that respect. In the case of a slave trader, black, or white, his fear would be that the Englishmen would land, and destroy his goods. 7281. Mr. M. Gibson.] Would not the internal slave trade of Africa herself keep alive always a very great amount of slave trade, even if the export were totally stopped?—No; 1 do not think the internal slave trade was known before we went there. Among the whole of the African languages there is no name for slave. 7282. In all parts of Africa at present there are slave markets?—That is to supply slaves. 7283. Those slaves are not only for export, but for internal use, are not they ? —I do not speak of the northern part. 7284. Is there a considerable export of slaves for the use of Turkey ?—I know little of Northern Africa, but I believe there is some slave trading. 7285. For domestic purposes?—Yes. 7286. For the use of the Egyptians ?—Yes. 7287. There would be for ordinary purposes a considerable demand for slaves, even if you were to stop slave trading?—Not considerable; I think that would be very small. 7288. Mr. Laboucherc.] Is the condition of slavery unusual in Africa itself?— I think so; I think slavery was unknown before we went there, because in all the different languages of Africa they have no term for slave.; they make use of the Spanish word " cautivo." 7289. Are you sufficiently acquainted with the internal condition of Africa to be able to say whether it is or is not the case, that slavery, either domestic or praedial, is the common condition of society there ?—It. is now ; I do not think it was. 7290. J am not now speaking of slaves taken for the purpose of exportation, but of persons reduced to slavery for the purpose of being employed within the country itself?—There is a state of slavery, but very trilling. I consider it is in no proportion whatever to the amount of slaves bought for the purpose of exportation. 7291. Do you know whether the cultivation of the soil is conducted to any extent by slaves in Africa itself?—The soil is almost wholly cultivated by women; every man has his dozen wives, who are his slaves. 7292. Mr. M. Gibson.] If you were to suppress the trade on the west, what 0.32. E E would

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would you do with the east coast ?—There is no market for slaves from the east Commander H. J. Matson, R. N. coast unless they come round. 7293. The additional voyage would be in itself a great obstacle?—Yes; there 8 March 1848. is no market for slaves on the east coast. 7294. Mr. Hope.'] Could you give the Committee any idea of the extent of coast a cruizer is expected to guard ?—That depends upon the nature of the coast; on an easy coast for her boats, she can watch a large extent. 7295. Are there particular stations assigned to individual vessels ?—Yes. 7296. You said the trade winds generally blow from Africa to the Brazil <— Yes. 7297. Will not it happen sometimes, that in pursuit of a slaver a sailing vessel will run to leeward ; and if you get to leeward of your station, how do you get back again?—You must keep your station. 7298. Then how can you pursue a slaver ?—I suppose in the case of the coast being blockaded, that you prevent the slaver approaching the coast. 7299. You would not lay your account to catch her as she is leaving the coast? —It would be very wrong if you did, of course; you would put a number of negroes in misery on board the vessel, and you would still run the chance of not catching her at all. 7300. Are the Committee to understand that the object of the blockade is to prevent ships arriving at the coast, or to catch them as they leave?—The better plan is to prevent their arriving. 7301. Sir E. Buxton.] Of course you use the blockade for both purposes ?— Yes, if you do not succeed in stopping a vessel approaching the coast, you must try to take her on leaving. 7302. Mr. Hope.] In that case, would not a steamer be of more use than a sailing vessel ?—In some cases where it is difficult to keep the stations, but there are a great many objections to steamers; the smoke is seen a long way off, and when the slaver sees a steamer he knows it is an enemy ; if he sees a sailing vessel he does not know whether it is a merchant vessel or a man-of-war, therefore steamers should only be employed in those cases where the current runs strong, and the sailing vessel cannot keep her station. 7303. Do you anticipate much mischief from the use of steamers by the Brazilians?—They have succeeded lately, but I should fancy the expense would be too great; I am rather surprised to hear that they have employed steamers ; I think it is only an experiment. 7304. The Committee have been led to suppose that they are going to increase the amount of their steamers?—I believe they have found it answer this last year. 7305. Do you think that sailing vessels will be able to compete with steamers in stopping the slave trade?—Yes, to prevent their approaching the coast; if you could blockade the coast of Africa, you would prevent slaves approaching the coast. 7306. May not they give you the slip ?—I am supposing the squadron to be sufficient to blockade the coast. 7307. How would a sailing vessel stop a steamer ?—She would put herself in the way to prevent her coming on the coast. The more slave traders employ steamers, the more requisite will it be for us to employ them too. 7308. Can a sailing vessel reckon with any degree of certainty upon her power of arresting the progress of a steam vessel ?—No; but a Brazil steamer, or any slave-trading steamer, can only have steam as an auxiliary power, therefore she is very soon crippled. If a sailing vessel succeeds in driving a steamer off to sea for two or three days she must go back to the Brazils again, because she can only carry coals for a very few number of days. If she came equipped as a regular steamer with her full power engines, she could carry no slaves. 7309. She can always reckon upon the trade wind to take her back again? —Yes, if she could only have coals enough to take her two days clear of the coast. 7310. Sir E. Buxton.] Are you at all acquainted with the extent of the slave trade into Egypt and the north-east of Africa?—No. 7311. The slaves are chiefly procured for the purposes of export either one way or the other, are not they ?—On the west coast of Africa, certainly. 7312. I hey are chiefly for export, whether it is to the north or to the south? —Almost entirely for export. 7313. As

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7313. As far as you can see, our slave trade is the great promoter of the Commander internal slavery of Africa, is it not ?—No doubt of it. H.J.Matson, it. N. 7314. Do you know whether there is an export of slaves to the amount of 8 March 1848. 4,000 or 5,000 per annum to the north east of Africa ?—No, I do not know that. 7315. You have never been there ? —Not for many years. I know that many slaves are exported from the east coast of Africa to come round the Cape of Good Hope. Mr. Henry Dummett, called in ; and Examined. 7316. Chairman.] YOU have a property in Babadoes, I believe?—I have. Mr. H. Dummett. 7317. Have you been resident upon your own property?—I am a native of the island, and a proprietor also; I also represent a good deal of the property of the island which is not my own, acting as attorney. 7318. How long is it since you left Barbadoes ?—About two years. 7319. What is the result of your experience of the cultivation of Barbadoes during slavery, during apprenticeship, and since perfect freedom ?—I think it has by no means fallen off, and that the island just now is in a most perfect and high state of cultivation. 7320. Have you any statement of the crops you obtained during slavery and during apprenticeship?—I have no statement, but I am prepared to say that the country never made more during the state of slavery than it did during the apprenticeship. 7321. Was it about the same during slavery and apprenticeship?—Perhaps if anything it was greater during apprenticeship, owing to the extraordinary efforts that were made by the proprietary body to keep up the cultivation, and owing also to the cultivation of provisions having been, in a great measure, relinquished for that of the staple commodity, and very favourable seasons. 7322. Was it on account of the rise in the price of sugar that those great exertions were made upon emancipation ?—I cannot say that it was. 7323. How do you account for those extraordinary exertions ?—The planters felt that unless unusual exertion was had recourse to, and additional improvements introduced, the thing must fall through, and they relinquished the cultivation of provisions in a great measure, that is to say, corn and potatoes, and that which they formerly grew for the purpose of feeding the slaves ; in short, I may say that the provision of the country was superseded by that of America. We quickly discovered that American corn could be brought and sold in the island at less money than we could grow it; that in short it was more to the interest of the planter to address himself solely to the cultivation of sugar than anything else. American corn is brought there in the shape of meal, at once prepared for the use of the labourer, and of course they shrank from all labour which they could at all avoid. The grinding and preparation of the corn was of course attended with more or less trouble. 7324. During apprenticeship did you increase your produce very much ?— I cannot say very much ; it certainly did not fall off. 7325. A much better price was obtained for your produce than you had before ?—There was a period when it commanded a remunerating price. 7326. The price of sugar rose very much after emancipation, did not it; therefore you must have got a better price for the same quantity of produce than you had before?—I attribute it to the quantity of sugar having fallen off in other colonies. I speak especially as regards Barbadoes. 7327. Of course the price which you obtained for your produce in Barbadoes was the same price that the planters of Jamaica obtained ; your price was governed by the price in England ?—Precisely so. 7328. That price being a better price than you had previously to emancipation, of course the profits of the cultivation must have been greater on emancipation than they were before, if you got as good a produce in point of quantity ? —The additional expense of apprenticeship must be borne in mind. 7329. What was the greater expense during apprenticeship ?—There was comparatively limited labour; in a state of slavery the slave laboured for many more hours during the day, and when he was required ; but during apprentice ship there was a law regulating the labour. 7330. You lost one-fourth of his labour?—Yes. 0.32. E E 2 7331. You

212 Mr. H. Dummett. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

7331 - You Hired that one-fourth, did not you ?—When required. 7332. Have you any statement to show the difference of the expense of cultivation during apprenticeship, and during slavery ?—I have no statement, but I am prepared to state what I consider to have been the expense. I am under the impression, that upon a well-regulated estate, in the island of Barbadoes, where the planter has established the crop in the hope of reaping 100 hogsheads, it is not done at a less expense, speaking generally, than from 1,500/. to 1,700/. sterling per annum. 7333. You are speaking now of the present time ?—Yes. 7334. What is the weight of your hogsheads?—When I say 100 hogsheads, I speak in round numbers ; I speak of a ton of sugar to a hogshead. 7335. The hogshead you speak of in Barbadoes is a ton ?—Twenty hundredweight short measure, or about 18 cwt. Of course the expense fluctuates on estates, but I speak as an average. 7336. You can put the sugar on the beach for 17 s. a cwt. upon the average, can you ?—I should say so. 7337. When you state that you can put the sugar upon the beach for 17s. a cwt., is that after deducting the product of the rum ?—I wish to be understood to say, that I consider a ton of sugar from the island of Barbadoes, landed in England, including the rum and molasses, costs 20 s. with the rum and molasses. 7338. You said you put sugar upon the beach for 17 l. a ton ; when you say you put sugar upon the beach for 17 l. a ton, do you credit yourself with the proceeds of the rum ?—No. 7339. Then there is the rum into the bargain ?—The rum and the molasses. 7340. That is equal to one-third more?—Not one-third, I should say. 7341. In point of fact, supposing it were less than one-third; supposing the rum and molasses to give 5 l. out of 17 l., can you, after having taken the proceeds of the rum and the molasses, put the sugar upon the beach for 12 l. ?— I never made a calculation of that kind. I speak as to growing 100 tons of sugar, the expense required to cover it, and everything appertaining and belonging to the sugar; that is to say, the rum and the molasses. 7342. The cost of growing a ton of sugar is 17 l. ?—Yes. 7343. You have not made it clear to the Committee whether you mean to say that the sugar is 17 l., and that there is something more for the rum and the molasses, or whether the cost of the sugar is more than the 17 l. but for the proceeds of the rum and the molasses?—The cost will cover everything. I mean to say that it costs 17 l. for growing a ton of sugar and producing the rum and molasses appertaining thereto. 7344. For 17 l. you can grow a ton of sugar, and how much molasses and rum ?—To every two hogsheads of sugar we calculate upon one puncheon of molasses, or one puncheon of rum, that is, half a puncheon to every hogshead. 734,5. What is the value of a half puncheon of molasses ?—The common value in the island is about 8 dollars, or 1l. 13 s. 7346. What is the value of a Barbadoes dollar ?—Four shillings and twopence sterling. 7347. And you put your sugar upon the beach at a cost of 15 l. 6s. 8 d. the 18 cwt. ?—That is the cost of growing it. 7348. That covers all the expense of cultivation, and the interest upon the capital laid out, does not it?—No interest upon the capital whatever; it covers all the expenses of our cultivation, labour, taxation, every sort of implement, and all the rest of it. 7349. Not the capital laid out in machinery and buildings?—The buildings were established; I look upon that as being quite a different thing, the expense of farming the estates and the buildings; that was the original capital invested. I do not speak of the interest upon that money. 7350. It pays the cost of cultivation and gives no profit ?—It gives no profit whatever. 7351. Does it include the repair of the buildings ?—It does, the current expenses of the year. 7352. No interest for the capital invested in the original block?—Precisely so. 7353. Barbadoes therefore was driving a very good trade from the period of emancipation, to what year as the latest ?—I should say that Barbadoes had been

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been holding its own at all events till within the last two years; the planters Mr. H. Dummett. have been enabled to live, practising a very rigid economy, but nothing more ; 8 March 1848. they were able to exist. 7354. Have they carried out all the improvements of which a sugar estate is capable ?—Every exertion has been made upon that point by the Barbadoes planters; indeed the state of the island stands alone in contrast with the other islands. 7355. Is that because wages are lower than in the other islands?—No; I attribute it to the dense population of the island, and their being greatly in advance of the other colonies in cultivation and science. 7356. There has been no slave trading to Barbadoes for nearly 100 years, has there?—For a very long period ; not since 1795, I believe. 7357. The apprenticeship was cut short, was not it ?—Yes. 7358. In what year did you carry out complete emancipation, the Bill passing in 1833 ?—I am not prepared to answer that; my memory does not serve me at this moment. 7359. Do you know how many years of apprenticeship there were ?—I think it lasted three years and three-quarters. 7360. What was the difference in the cost of production after the apprenticeship was concluded, as compared with the period of apprenticeship?—Very material indeed. 7361. Can you state what it was?—It became a ready-money transaction, which was not known at all in the state of apprenticeship. Most of this money cost of cultivation has existed only since the apprenticeship. The difference would only be that of the taxes of the country on the land. 7362. What was the expense of putting the sugar upon the beach during the apprenticeship?—I should say the taxing and expenses for keeping up buildings, cattle, and all the rest of the necessary materials, would be probably some 400 I. instead of 1,700 l., or perhaps more than that. 7363. Will you try to recal to your recollection exactly what the amount was, and state it?—As nearly as I can tell, 400 I. sterling paid the expenses of the estate, and the balance is the expenses which have grown out of the altered state of things ; that is to say, working now with free labour. 7364. What should you say was the cost of growing sugar during slavery ? —There was the expense of the negro and the supplies; it was comparatively nothing. 7365. There were some expenses of machinery, and so on ?—Yes, 7366. What were your outgoings previous to the years of apprenticeship? — During slavery ; my experience does not go back so far as that. I can speak of the different state of things between that existing during the apprenticeship, and that which now exists in the West Indies. 7367. Mr. Labouchcre.] Were not you at Barbadoes during the period of slavery ?—Only as a young man ; but not as an experienced man. 7368. Chairman.'] You were in Barbadoes, but not engaged in sugar planting? — Precisely so. 7369. You said you were able to give your own expenses during the apprenticeship, and how much later?—Our great difficulty, as regards the falling off in the value of property, has been within the last two years ; previously to that, property in Barbadoes was marketable ; it is now held altogether at a nominal value. 7370. What number of years' purchase did an estate sell for in Barbadoes when you first became personally acquainted with estates in that country ?— We are not in the habit of calculating in that way. I can tell you what we considered an estate which was capable of producing from 100 to 150 hogsheads to he then worth, and what it now is worth ; a property producing from 100 to 150 hogsheads was considered to be worth about 35,000 l. currency, or 23,000 I. sterling. 7371. What is it worth now ? —Just now it is held altogether at a nominal value. It would be difficult to effect a sale ; indeed I question whether it could be done on any terms ; but as lately as two years ago I, myself, sold a property in the island, receiving for it 20,000 l, sterling; that was such an estate as I spoke of, capable of producing 150 hogsheads under favourable circumstances. 7372. When did you sell that property ?—Two years ago. 0.32. E E 3 7373. For

214 Mr H. Dummett. 8 March 1848.

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7373. For a few years antecedent to 1846 what annual income had you derived from that property ?—A very limited one indeed; it much depended upon the price of sugar in this country. 7374. Taking one year with another, what might it be?—I should say not more than 1,000 /. currency, after paying all expenses, that is between 600 /. and 7001, sterling, the seasons having been most unfavourable from 1839 to 1845. 7375. How do you account for your getting 20,000/. for an estate which only paid between 600/. and 700 /. a year?—In the first place, I consider I made a very excellent sale of the property; the planters were merely making a living ; they were barely paying their expenses at that time. 7376. Did you sell that estate to a resident in the island, or to a stranger?— To a stranger for agricultural purposes, but he sold it again immediately; it changed hands two or three times. 7377. How do you account for its selling for so much money, and returning so small a profit?—It was thought capable of great improvement, and the parties were sanguine that they could do much with it with better seasons, the buildings being in first rate order; the negro village too had been lately built, and the whole, including the manager's house, was erected at a cost not less than 8,000/. sterling. 7378. Were they Englishmen who purchased it?—It was an Englishman that purchased it, but he bought it only as a speculation, with the understanding that a native planter was to take it off his hands. 7379. Do you know what profit he made of the estate ?—He made a nominal profit of some 1,500/. 7380. The first year ?—By the sale. 7381. What do you call a nominal profit?—He did not receive his money, and there is a question whether he ever will. 7382. You received your money?—Every shilling. 7383. What profit do you understand that the present possessor of the estate is now making a year by it; he anticipates nothing; in short, I believe he feels himself ruined at this moment. 7384. Do you mean that he gets no profit at all?—He says that the price of sugar in England scarcely pays for the cultivation of it; the present price of sugar does not pay for growing it. 7385. What are your freight and charges to England ?—Four shillings freight. 7386. What are the other charges ?—That is the principal charge; there are brokerage, and rimage, and commissions. 7387. Are those 3 s. more, making 7 s. in the whole ?—I should say somewhere thereabouts. 7388. That would give 24 s. ?—Yes; I believe the average value of Barbadoes sugar of the last crop did not reach 15 /. sterling per 18 cwt. 7389. That is to say, in the island ?—In the British market, after deducting freight, charges, and everything else; it does not pay for the cultivation. 7390. Can you tell the Committee anything with respect to wages ; have you been able to reduce the wages of the labourers this year ?—I have understood that, owing to the late failures and the total absence of specie in the country, the labourers have been induced to labour on, in short, without receiving any money, but with an understanding that it would be at a reduced price. 7391. What were the wages of a labourer in the year 1846 ?—Where the labourers hired cottages generally, with the understanding that they were to work at less money, they received 20 cents per day. 7392. Where there was no cottage?—Twenty-five or 30 cents ; this was for nine hours' work. 7393. They work more hours in Barbadoes than they do in the other colonies ? —Yes, during crop time ; when they laboured beyond that period they received extra pay. 7394. At what rate?—Making it five cents more probably. 7395. For how many hours ?—Two or three, as occasion might require. 7396. Are you able to say to what ebb you have been able to reduce the wages now ?—It is only within the last two or three weeks that I have heard of this ^eduction. 7397. What is the amount of the reduction?—I believe the understanding to

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to be that some 15 cents probably will be paid where they used to receiye 20 Mr. H. Dummett. cents; but it is only partial in the island, and it is not a settled question, for, the 8 March 1848. moment the money returns to the country, I have no doubt they will require the same wages. 7398. Is that in consequence of the breaking of the bank ?—It is in consequence of the absence of all specie, owing to the breaking of the bank and the failure of a large West India house connected with the island, who were almost bankers themselves there; I speak of Barton's house, of Liverpool. 7399. If you should be able to maintain this reduction of wages to 71/2 d., shall you be able then to produce the sugar at such a cost that it would pay at the present price ?—My opinion is, we certainly could not. 7400. If you reduce the rate of wages measured in money from 10 d. to 7 § d., what effect will that have upon the cost of the manufacture of a hogshead of sugar; it would not make a difference of 25 per cent., because the wages only form a proportion of the cost ?—It would be 25 per cent, on 1,200 /. 7401. You reckon that where 1,700 I. is laid out in the cultivation of sugar, 1,200 Z. of it goes to labour ?—Yes. I would not be supposed to be answering accurately as to the expense, but in round numbers I calculate the expense of an estate yielding from 100 to 150 hogsheads to be from 1,500 l. to 1,700 l sterling a year. Since 1846, owing to the fall in the value of sugar at home, things have gone so wrong in the west that property just now is held altogether at a nominal value. An estate which I sold at 20,000 I. two years ago, in the island of Barbadoes, I feel certain, if it were now offered for publie saie, would not bring half the money. 7402. You think it might fetch 10,000l. ?—It would be a mere transfer of property; it would not be a bona fide sale. I do not think there is such a thing as effecting a sale of West India property just now. 7403. How many days a week do the labourers work at Barbadoes?—Five days. 7404. Saturday is given them for their provision-grounds?—Yes. 7405. Do those labourers who have no provision-grounds labour six days a week ?—No, it is not usual near the town, where my estate is situated. Saturday is always regarded as a holiday; they go to market. As regards the cultivation of the island, nothing can be more perfect; in short, in the little island of Barbadoes the cane cultivation is reduced to a garden cultivation: they have gone to great expense in improvements; in short, improvements of every nature have been eagerly sought after. 7406. Is it an island which admits of ploughs being used all over it?—There is not an estate in the country, I should say, which has not its plough; they have a variety of ploughs; the horse-hoe for weeding; advantage, in fact, has been taken of every improvement. 7407. Have they abundance of horses and cattle ?—Yes, mules and horses are generally employed; mules and horses have taken the place of cattle very largely. 7408. Are they bred in the island ? —They are brought from America, the horses, and from the Spanish Main. 7409. There is no further improvement in the cultivation of Barbadoes of which the island is susceptible?—I think not; as respects all improvements in the manufacture of sugar, as I said before, they have been eagerly sought after. We hear with astonishment of our being accused of want of energy in those things. In the House of Commons some allusion was made to the late improvements of a certain Dr. Evans, who has published a book on West India affairs. I myself gave a great deal of time to that patent pan which he so highly speaks of, and I was witness to its performance in London. I was so much pleased at what I saw that I immediately undertook a voyage to the West Indies again, taking with me two of those pans, with the necessary steam-engines. As he showed here, he professes to do with this open pan at a very moderate cost, all that the most approved pan, the vacuum pan, could do, and so, to all appearance, he does in London. I made myself thoroughly acquainted with it here. I put on a working jacket, and went into the manufactory with him ; but on going to the West Indies I found, when we had to employ the raw material, or the cane juice itself, the effect was very different; it produced a most beautiful sugar, but it was of so light a nature that it did not compensate; in short, it did not realize my expectations by any means. 0-32. 'As em

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As regards the conduct of the negroes in Barbadoes in the late distress of the West Indies, I willingly bear testimony to it; they have submitted, I understand, 8 March 1848. with a very good grace to a reduction of wages at present, in the hope of an early improvement; but when we talk of a reduction of wages, we do not consider it at all as a fixed thing. I am not sanguine that we should be able to establish such a reduction. 7410. Do not you suppose, when the labourers see that.it is not possible that the planters can afford to give them more than this reduced price, they will submit ?-~In the cultivation of the sugar-cane we cannot oppose them ; if they hold out against us, so as to neglect the cultivation for a week or a fortnight, it is almost a ruinous thing; we are obliged to do all that is in the power of the planter to keep, them in good humour, and I think they would be very unwilling to sacrifice so much for a permanency. 7411. Have the labourers at Barbadoes any other means of subsistence; could they hold out against the planters if the planters were to say we cannot afford to pay you more than 15 cents a day ?—The climate is such that one day's labour suffices to keep them going for a week if they choose to exist upon it, with the assistance of their provision-grounds. 7412. Do not you apprehend that if living is so cheap in Barbadoes 15 cents a day for wages are such handsome and encouraging wages that the labourers would be glad to accept 15 cents a day rather than be thrown back upon their provision-grounds?—I think it will need time before they can be reconciled to that amount. The planters have heard with great concern of the proposed measures for their benefit; they feel, as regards Barbadoes, that they will do very little to benefit them. 7413. That is to say, no advantage can accrue to Barbadoes from any immigration of labour ? —There possibly might not be to any extent; we do not absolutely require labour ; we have quite labour enough in the country if there were anybody to enter into competition with the labouring population of the country, but just now the planter is in a great measure at the mercy of the peasantry; they make their own terms. The moral effect of immigration elsewhere would no doubt be useful. 7414. Is not the population of Barbadoes the most dense population of any spot of land in the world?—It is; but the non-labouring population is very great indeed ; and as I have said before, one day's work goes a long way to provide for a man's wants for a week. The agricultural population is estimated at 45,000. 7415. If you were to have any immigration of labourers would not they be in the same position as the resident labourers of the island ; would not they be able to employ their own two days' work to grow provisions for themselves ?— Yes, but the planter would have some resource, I look upon it. 7416. Was not there a hurricane or earthquake in Barbadoes some years ago? —There was a hurricane in 1831. 7417. Did not you get some advantage by the postponement of the hurricane loan payment?—It would be a benefit to some, but those parties arc very few, and would form an exception to the rule; to those parties it would be a very great boon. 7418. What is the amount of loan still due to the Government by the island of Barbadoes ?—I am not prepared to say. But little, I apprehend, when compared to other colonies. 7419. Do you apprehend, that if the present price of sugar continues, any great portion of the island of Barbadoes will be thrown out of cultivation ?—I feel perfectly certain of that fact; in short it must go to ruin the whole island ; a few more independent planters, those who would be better off", would be prevented from cultivating their lands in consequence of their neighbours not being able to employ the people. In short they would be glad to let out their lands to the peasantry on the best terms they could. The negro would not labour for me while he could rent land and become a petty farmer himself. 7420. Would not he grow sugar-canes himself?—In a very limited and irregular sort of way. I feel certain a state of barbarism would be again arrived at. 7421. Is not it the fact that at this present time there are a great many of the negro population who cultivate the sugar cane, and who club together in Barbadoes to grind the cane?—The canes are all converted into sugar at, the works

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works belonging to the estate on which they hold lands ; those advantages are Mr. H. Dummett. held out as a sort of encouragement to them. 7422. Is it the fact that there are many little freeholders who club together 8 March 1848. to grind the canes themselves ?—They have no means of grinding; they have no mills. 7423. Have not they small hand-mills ?—Not that I am aware of; not in Barbadoes. 7424. Do you think that with so dense a population a great part of the sugar-cane fields might not be let out for provision grounds ?--They buy provisions, as I have said before, at so very moderate a rate from the United States, that they would not think of growing them. 7425. That only applies, I believe, to dry corn, and not to vegetables of any kind?—It applies to corn, which is the principal thing they live on. 7426. They do not live upon yams, do they?—Yams and potatoes, but in a very moderate quantity. I would speak as to the relative value of property now to what it was in 1846, and I cannot better illustrate that than by telling the Committee that I was myself in treaty, through the commander of the forces, General Middlemore, in the island of Barbadoes, with the authorities at home, for the sale of a mansion. This property was surveyed at the instance of the general, and a statement was sent home; he considered himself, together with the head of the Commissariat department, that as that property was in the market, it should be purchased by Government as a residence for the commander of the forces. The house is, I may say, without exception the finest in the West Indies; it was erected at a cost of 10,000 l. sterling, a great deal of money for that part of the world. I offered it to the Government, with a certain portion of land to it, for say, 10,000 l. ; I should be this day most happy to take 5,000 l. for it. I mention this fact to show how the value of property of all sorts in the island of Barbadoes, the most favourably situated in the West Indies, has fallen. 7427. You never were offered 10,000 l., were you?—No. 7428. What offer did General Middlemore make?—He was not in a position to offer; he recommended to the Government to purchase, and he did not consider the value I set upon the property unreasonable. 7429. To the Government is not it worth now as much as it was before?—It is not to me. 7430. Can you give the Committee any further information with respect to the value of properties consisting of sugar-cane fields ?—I should say they have fallen in a like proportion; the estate which I sold for 20,000/. a few years ago, I am certain would not realize 10,000 /. at this day. 7431. Mr. Labouchere.] You stated that it would now cost between 1,500/. and 1,600/. to place upon the beach of Barbadoes the same quantity of sugar which, during a system of apprenticeship, cost about 400 /. ?—Yes. 7432. That is to say, in your opinion, the cost of producing sugar in Barbadoes has quadrupled since the apprenticeship system was abolished?—Yes ; the planter is out of pocket by that much money now above what he was in the time of slavery. 7433. To what do you attribute this enormous increase in the cost of production ?—The cultivation was carried on by labour belonging to the planter, that is to say, by his apprentices ; now it is done by free labour, for which he has to pay. 7434. Were there no outgoings caused by the system of apprenticeship, in the maintenance of those apprentices, and in other ways ?—During the apprenticeship we fed the people; we grew our own provisions, and fed them altogether ; that has been abandoned. 7435. You have stated that it has been found cheaper to import provisions from America rather than to grow them, in order to feed the labouring population?—Yes; that is the business of the merchant, with which the planter lias nothing to do. It is a money transaction now, whereas during the apprenticeship system the planter grew his own corn and fed his own people, which rendered cash payments for labour unnecessary. 7436. You stated in answer to a question that was put to you, that it has been found to be cheaper to import provisions from America, in order to feed the labouring population, than to grow them in Barbadoes for the same purpose ?—I accounted for that by stating that the negro will not take the trouble 0.32. F F of

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of grinding or preparing his own corn, and it became of very little value when corn already prepared from America was procurable. 8 March 1848. 7437. Do you conceive that the reduction of duties upon articles of import into Barbadoes has had no effect in facilitating production there ?—I am not prepared to speak as to that question. I would merely speak of Barbadoes as to its relative position now and two years ago. 7438. Have you turned your attention to the effect which the remission of duties upon articles of import into the island, especially provisions and lumber, has had upon the power of production of the island ?—No ; I am not prepared to speak upon that subject, 7439. When you talk of those two sums, do you take the mere money payments ?—Money payments. I mean to say that during apprenticeship, the sum of 5001, covered the money expenses of an estate; now it is increased to the amount I have mentioned, and I accounted for that by stating that we fed our own people then, and of course paid no money for labour. 7440. You have stated that there is an abundance of labour in the island of Barbadoes, if the people were willing to work for reasonable wages ?—I am of that opinion. 7441. Do not you conceive, therefore, that upon the long run the planters will find that they will be able to obtain sufficient labour in Barbadoes at a reasonable price ?—Never, to enable us to compete with the sugar produced by slave labour. The cost of cultivation in Porto Rico is so very different from that produced in the British West Indies, that we stand no chance whatever; and I am clearly of opinion, that unless we have a fixed and sufficient differential duty, the island of Barbadoes, the most flourishing island in the West Indies, must go out of cultivation. 7442. Are you of opinion, that supposing you to have access to free labour in abundance at a reasonable cost, it would be still impossible for Barbadoes to compete with the slave-labour producing colonies?—Certainly. I am perfectly satisfied in my own mind, that free labour never can compete- with slavery. 7443. Not under the most favourable circumstances ?—Not under the most favourable ciruumstances. 7444. Are you able to state to the Committee what amount of protection you think would enable you permanently to compete with the slave labour producing colonies ?—As far as my own opinion goes, though it is a mere matter of opinion, I think with a differential duty of less than 11 s., the planter could not hope for any return, in the way of interest, of his property invested there. 7445. Do you think that that amount of protection must be permanent, or would you propose it merely as a temporary measure, in order to enable the colony to recover from the prostration which it is now in?—I think they ought to be protected, in order to restore confidence; anything short of a fixed differential duty for that purpose would not go to relieve us, and I am of opinion that it is the only measure that can save the West Indies just now. 7446. Do not you think there would be some danger if the protective duty were only given you for a certain period, that persons would engage in cultivation, relying upon that duty, and that their calculations would be frustrated when it was subsequently removed ?—I would be understood to speak as regards Barbadoes especially; the cultivation cannot be brought to a higher state of perfection than it is in now. I believe there is not a square acre in the country capable of producing either provisions or canes, which is not just now under the highest state of cultivation. 7447. Do not you believe that any system that produces uncertainty in the minds of the planters of Barbadoes, with regard to the question of protection, would be unfortunate for them ?—I think it would; they cannot be worse off than they are just now, because they are fast dying a sort of natural death; I look upou it that this is the last crop of sugar that can be reaped in the island. 7448. There have been frequent changes in the sugar duties of late years, have not there ?—Yes, there have. 7449. Do you think the frequency of those changes has been prejudicial to the planting interests in the island of Barbadoes ?—The value of property has been gradually lessened; confidence has been shaken, and merchants have been gradually withdrawing their support. 7450. You

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7450. You stated to the Committee, as an example that you were personally Mr. II. Dummett. acquainted with, an estate in Barbadoes that produced about 6001, a year 8 March 1848. having been sold at 20,0001.; do you conceive anybody would have been found to give such a sum as that for an estate producing such an income, unless he had anticipated high prices in the market of England, under a protective system ?—The party who purchased it bought it with a view of greatly improving and increasing his crops, and looked forward, no doubt, to an improvement in the British market, as I explained before. 7451. Do you think anybody would have embarked in a speculation of that kind, which you state has been ruinous to the person who has entered into it, without the expectation of such a high price in the English market as could only be secured by a system of protection ?—I believe the impression was that England would never altogether abandon her colonies, or relinquish them by putting them in competition with slave-grown sugar. 7452. Suppose Parliament now were to enact a protecting duty without being willing, or without being able permanently to maintain it, do not you think it would have the effect of inducing persons to embark in a speculation similar to that which you have described, which might ultimately result in ruin to those who had entered into them?—I think parties would be very cautious just now; I think now it would be impossible to effect a sale in the West Indies at all. 7453. You state that at the present moment the labourers in Barbadoes are working at reduced rates of payment, and also that the payments themselves are postponed for the present?—Yes, in the absence of money consequent upon the failure of the bank there, they have arrived at a state of barter almost, and of bankruptcy. 7454. Does not that circumstance inspire you with the hope that ultimately the labouring population of Barbadoes will be willing to give their labour to the planters at such reasonable rates of payment as will be mutually just to both parties?—The effect will be to throw out of cultivation a great many estates just now under high cultivation; they will be abandoned altogether; the labourers will be unwilling to submit to the very low price of labour that it must come to, and the lands will ultimately be let out to them upon the best terms which the proprietary body can make; in short, I take a very gloomy view of things there, and I apprehend a great deal of mischief. I look upon it that the West Indies generally have been the victims of a series of experiments, and that they have been completely revolutionized, happily, so far, without bloodshed ; but the moment property ceases to be represented and the proprietary body cease to be influential, and the labourers get possession of the land, which it must come to, I shall begin to fear for those who may yet remain in the country. 74,55. lias the labouring population in Barbadoes hitherto been generally well conducted ?—Uncommonly so, in contrast with those of the other islands. 7456. Is vagrancy common in Barbadoes ?—No, I cannot say that it is. They support each other, and there is a very good feeling of that sort existing ; they are very far in advance of the other islands in civilization. 7457. Is there a general good feeling between the planters and the labourers? —Very much so. 7458. Have the labourers shown a taste for something beyond the mere necessaries of life?—That they certainly have, and indeed their general condition has very much improved indeed, and I am sorry to say a great many of them arc losers by the failure of the West India Bank ; they had become depositors ; they are a class of people who have wonderfully improved in their condition, and in behaviour, and everything else. 7459. Mr. Villiers.] Did you say that you thought if the price of sugar were to continue as low as it is at present, the island would return to a state of barbarism ?—I think so; that is to say, I consider that it will tend to throw out the present proprietary body, and that the lands will fall into the hands of the peasantry, the cultivation will become very irregular, and the consequences, as I have just hinted, I think will be fearful for those who are obliged to remain there. 7460. You expect, do not you, that the peasantry would rent the estates of the planter, and that they would not return to savage life, but that they would 0.32. F F 2 cultivate

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Mr. H. Dummett. cultivate them in small portions ? — They will be in possession, but the nature 8 March 1848.

of the negro is such that you could not rely upon him for one moment; and I take it that the result will be, that the estates ultimately will fall out of cultivation, that they will become provision lands, and that the sugar cultivation will be lost. 7461. You observe among those negroes a great taste for the comforts and luxuries of civilized life, do not you ?—They are very much improved, comparatively speaking. 7462. Are all the estates under the same circumstances, that they will at once be likely to pass from the present planters into the hands of the peasantry ?—No. 7463. Some are perhaps more mortgaged than others, and some are not mortgaged at all ?—Unquestionably. 7464. Which must make a considerable difference to those estates which are unincumbered; it cannot be so bad for an estate which is without incumbrance as it is for an estate which is heavily mortgaged ?—Some may linger out a miserable existence a little longer, while others are at once prostrated by the effects. 7463. The cost of cultivating an estate, looking to the profit left to the planter, is different, according to the amount of his outgoings ?—Certainly. 7466. Sugar is produced by some to a much greater advantage than by others ?—It is produced at the same cost. When I gave an instance just now, I regarded that as a sort of average expense. Some estates are cultivated under more favourable circumstances than others; some are more productive than others. 7467. You are acquainted with your own estates; was that instance which you were referring to, when you stated that the difference in the cost of placing sugar on the beach now, and during the time of apprenticeship, was the difference between 400 /. and 1,700 /., your own case ?—Yes, I may say so. When I said 400/., I meant to say from 400/. to 500/. I would not be disposed to speak very critically as to that, hut it was thereabouts. 7468. Are there any incumbrances upon your estates?—None. 7469. Your estate is more favourably circumstanced than most of the others ? —As far as that goes, certainly. 7470. Still it would make the difference between 400 /. and 1,700 /. ?—Yes, taking into consideration everything attendant upon it. Formerly we had to grow our own corn and to feed our own people ; now it is, in fact, a ready-money transaction. 7471. This has been the difference between the apprenticeship system and the free-labour system ?—Yes, or the system of slavery; it was only another name for that. The labour was at our own disposal, though but for a limited number of hours during the day. 7472. Will you give the Committee your estimate of the cost of supporting an apprentice ?—I never made a calculation of that sort. I wish to speak of the general expenses, taking them all together. 7473. You cannot tell the Committee what the cost was of supporting an apprentice ?—I cannot. 7474. How is it that you so exactly estimate the difference, then, between the cost of supporting an apprentice and a free labourer ?—I know what the expense of the estate was which then grew from 100 to 150 hogsheads of sugar, and I know what it is now. 7473. You speak of two different periods; at one time the expense of the estate was 400 /., and at another 1,700 /., and you tell the Committee that the difference consisted in the much less cost of supporting an apprentice than of supporting a free labourer ?—Yes. 7476. What was the expense of supporting an apprentice ?—I never made a calculation. 7477. You know what you pay to the labourers now?—Yes; we sometimes pay labourers one rate of wages, and at other times another; in crop time the labour is more expensive; when I said 25 cents a day for labour, I spoke of the ordinary labourer ; those about the buildings, and others, are somewhat more expensive, especially in crop time, when they are worked over-hours, for which they receive additional pay. 7478. Sometimes you pay more and sometimes less for labour?—Yes. 7479. When

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7479. When was the change made as to the importation of provisions and Mr. H. Dummett. lumber; was it before the abolition of the apprenticeship system ?—I do not 8 March 1848. remember that exactly. 7480. Since when is it you have imported provisions into the island?—For many years. 7481. You get them from America, do not you, now?—Yes. 7482. Do you know whether there was any difference in the price of provisions after you could import them from America freely?—They became comparatively of no value; it was found by the planters that the American provisions were sold at so low a price that they could not cultivate corn at a remunerating price, and they were obliged to abandon it. 7483. The price of provisions fell?—Yes ; but now the country is in a great measure depending upon those provisions. The price fluctuates very considerably ; sometimes the price is high, and sometimes provisions are so abundant as to be of little value. 7484. They are much lower than they used to be ?—Yes. 7485. With respect to lumber, do you get lumber now without paying a duty from America ?—That I cannot say. I should not like to speak to it, because I am not very well informed upon it. I am under the impression that lumber is very much cheaper than it was. 7486. Do you know anything yourself of the management of an estate?—I do. 7487. And as to the expenses and outgoings of an estate?—Yes; and in round numbers I have calculated the expense to be what I have stated. 7488. I believe wood is an important article upon an estate?—it is. 7489. But you do not know the price of it ?—I do not know the present market price. 7490. It was in 1846 that this great decline in the price of sugar took place, was not it ?—In 1846 and 1847. 7491. How long is it that Barbadoes has been in this disastrous state that you have described?—Since 1846 ; since they were placed in competition with the slave-grown sugar. 7492. Do you mean to say that Barbadoes has been in a state of distress since 1846?—Very great distress, in consequence of the merchants having withdrawn their confidence and support from the island. So long as the planters could grow sugar at a price to pay them a freight, so long did they cheerfully advance money, and support them; but now that that is found to be impossible they have withdrawn that accommodation, and the majority of the planters are without resource. 7493. Do you know what the price of sugar in this country was to the end of 1846, and for the first four months of 1847 ?—I can tell what we considered to be the value of a hogshead of sugar; we estimated it to realize somewhere about 25 I. sterling. 7494. The question has reference to your knowledge of the price in the English market; do you consider that the price fell very much in the year 1846 ? —In 1847 the price fell very materially. 7495. Is it since 1847 or since 1846 that Barbadoes has been in this great distress ?—The confidence of the merchants has been so much shaken that we have felt general distress ; with respect to the positive fall in the price of sugar I would mention 1847, but this state of things has been growing upon us, and at last it has come upon us in an overwhelming shape since this measure of 1846. 7496. What crop was it that was sold in 1847 ; was it the crop of 1846 ?— The crop planted in 1846, of course, it was that reached the market in 1847. 7497. You stated that the cultivation has been very much improved of late years?—I consider it perfect; I do not think it is possible to improve the cultivation of Barbadoes. 7498. Has that improvement been effected within the last 10 or 12 years?— Barbadoes has always stood alone as regards cultivation, but certainly I should say it has improved within that period. 7499. Should you say that great exertions have been made lately ? Yes, the planting of the cane has been more general in consequence of provisions being abandoned and the planters addressing themselves almost exclusively to that as the only thing which would pay. 7500. lias machinery been used where it was not used before ?—The plough 0.32.2* f f 3 has

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Mr. H. Dummett. has been very much employed and an improved system of agriculture adopted; 8 March 1848.

they plant much wider, and where they used to plant four plants they have discovered that one is equally good ; in short, every parish in the little island has its agricultural body, who report upon the state of things. 7501. That is a state of things that was not known 20 years ago? — Precisely so. 7502. The planter, you said, felt some time ago that he must make every exertion ?—Yes. 7503. There was a fall in the price after the abolition of slavery, was not there ? —He had no longer the control of the labour, he had therefore to resort to every means in his power to keep up the cultivation of the land. 7504. Was it the fall of price after 1833 that induced the planters to make those great exertions ?—I do not know that it was so much. 7505. That has been done upon the estates which any planter 20 years ago would have thought impossible?—Yes; every improvement has been eagerly sought after by the planters of Barbadoes. In the old mills they have increased their power by giving them an additional roller ; they have a plough, and there is nothing they have not adopted in the island of Barbadoes. 7506. Do you know exactly what has been done in Cuba ?—No ; I can only speak as to Barbadoes. 7507. Why is it that you put a limit to the improvement of the cultivation and the production of sugar ?—It. is a thing that is generally acknowledged, that everything has been done that can be done. 7508. You say that improvement can go no further ?— I think not. 7509. Might not the planters have said the same thing 20 years ago ?—Not with equal reason. When I say that improvement can no further go, we may perhaps improve the quality of the sugar, but the moment we reach a certain point, that moment we are subject to an additional duty. I can mention an instance of that in the case of a particular friend of mine. Mr. Morgan, of St. Vincent, who has lately expended a very considerable sum of money in erecting machinery in the island of St. Vincent, but he has been completely defeated in consequence of arriving at this state of perfection in the manufacture of his sugar, for the moment his sugar reached a certain point, that moment it became subject to an additional tax ; so that the unfortunate planter is accused of want of energy and exertion while his hands are completely tied. 7510. You are not suffering as the other islands are from want of labour, you attach more importance to the price here than to the introduction of fresh labour? —I certainly do. 7511. You have an advantage over the other islands in that respect?—-I think so. 7512. You say you would not be satisfied with anything less than 11 s. differential duty ?—I did not say I would not be satisfied with less ; I say I consider nothing short of that will remunerate the planter in Barbadoes. I think sugar would then command a remunerating price, and the planter would be able to live. 7513. You have spoken with reference to his outgoings before he brings the sugar to market here; is not freight a very considerable item in the cost of bringing sugar to market ?—Certainly. 7514. Have you ever considered whether freights could be reduced?—I have, and freights have been reduced; formerly freights from the island of Barbadoes were 4 s. (id.; they are now 4 s. 7515. Have the Navigation Laws presented any difficulties in your way?— That is a subject I am not prepared to reply to. 7216. Do you know what the operation of the Navigation Laws has been ?— I think I do. 7517. Has it been to raise freights ?—My impression is, that the repeal of the Navigation Laws would tend to reduce freights, but it would raise insurances. 7518. While those laws continue they tend to raise freights ?—They certainly do not tend to diminish freights; freights have been a long time, however, at a fixed rate. 7519. If you could diminish freights it would give an advantage to the planter of Barbadoes, would not it?—A saving of expense of any kind would be a great advantage. 7520. if

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7520. If his expenses were reduced, in point of freights, that might be a reason for reducing the differential duty which you think necessary, probably r —Anything that would tend to diminish the expense of bringing his sugar to market would be an advantage to him. 7521. Barbadoes, you say, has suffered very seriously in several ways just now ?—Yes, 7522. They have had peculiar misfortunes, have not they, to sustain this last year?—Yes. 7523. The failure of the bank, and the failure of the very large house which you mentioned ?—Yes ; but most of all, the fall in the price of sugar, and the withdrawal of mercantile confidence consequent upon the Bill of 1846. 7524. Perhaps you can hardly judge what the state of Barbadoes would have been but for the misfortune of the failure of the bank ?—I know what Barbadoes must become very quickly, if the price of sugar remains what it is now. To continue cultivation is a matter of impossibility ; in short, it may be regarded as a general rule, that the more sugar the more debt. 7525. You were not in the island when the system of slavery existed ?—I was not attending to the subject. 7526. And you have never been in any slave-producing country ?—I have not. 7527. You only speak from hearsay, when you say it is impossible for any free-labour colony to compete with slave produce ?—I speak from the statements I have seen as to the expense of cultivating sugar in slave-growing countries, in contrast with the British West Indies, and from that circumstance I see at once that it is an utter impossibility. 7528. You really do not know what the cost of producing sugar in Brazil or Cuba is ?—I do not. 7529. Mr. Miles.] With regard to freight from Barbadoes, is there any drogherage in Barbadoes ?— Comparatively little. 7530. Have the ships remained there a long while, or do they get their loads very quickly ?—They get their loads quickly. 7531. Can you state the number of days, on the average, that the ships remain in Barbadoes ?—I cannot; but sometimes they are discharged very quickly. I have known a vessel arriving there, taking 400 or 500 hogsheads of sugar, discharge her cargo and be dispatched again in 10 days. 7532. You stated that the classification duties operated very severely against the planters, and you instanced a case in St. Vincent's ; it is your opinion that great injustice is done, is it ?—Yes. 7533. Do you think that sugar which amounts very nearly to the quality of refined sugar, should come in at the same duty nearly as muscovado sugar ?— I do not regard it as approaching to refined sugar. 7534. You know the Government standard, do not you?—Yes. 7535. Is not it a very high standard?—It is a very improved quality of sugar; but I speak of what certainly does not approach refined sugar. 7536. Do not you think it contains a much larger amount of saccharine matter than muscovado sugar ?—On the contrary, they tell me that vacuum-pan sugar does not do so, there is so much water crystallized with it; and I believe it is notorious that a pound of vacuum-pan sugar does not contain the saccharine matter that a pound of sugar manufactured in the ordinary process does. 7537. Do you know the amount of the Vacuum-pan sugar which has come in at a high duty ?—I do not. 7,338. You do not know that it is a very small quantity ?—It must be a very small quantity indeed, as I am informed, for the individual I alluded to has found himself completely defeated by the duty. 7539. Does not he make a much larger quantity of sugar from his molasses and juice by this process?—I am under the impression that he has in a great measure abandoned that manufacture. 7540. Is that in consequence of the duty ?—I Should say it was. 7541. Do you think that a man who has gone to the expense of several thousand pounds in putting up improved machinery would lose the benefit of it, simply for a difference of 2 s. in the duty ?—I can give no other reason. 7542. Has he ever stated to you that that was his reason ?—He has stated that such was the case ; that and some other difficulties which he had encountered in working the machinery. 0.32. F F 4 7543. Was

621 Mr.

H. Dummett.

8 March 1848.

224 Mr. H. Dummett. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

7543. Was not it more likely the other difficulties which he had encountered which led him to give it up '!—On the contrary, he spoke of the differential duty as that which was likely to defeat his purposes. 7544. Do you know anything about the manufacture of sugar in vacuo ?— I know very little. 7545. Do not you know that it is an exceedingly nice process, requiring great care and attention'!—I know sufficient of it to know that; I never have had recourse to that method myself. I have employed the refining-pan, as I said before, of Dr. Evans. I went to a considerable expense, hut it was quite a failure. 7546. Which do you think enters most into the consumption of the negro, articles grown in the island, or which he raises himself, or articles imported from the United States ?—Articles imported from the United States. 7547. To a very considerable extent ?—To a considerable extent; they live in the island of Barbadoes on the corn meal of America. 7548. Do you know if that is the case in the other islands ?—I am not aware. 7549. You have no interest at all in the other islands ?—None. 7550. What is your return per acre in Barbadoes?—We regard two hogsheads of sugar as a fair average return. 7551. For the whole island?—Yes, for plant-canes. 7552. Flow long do your canes go on ratooning there:—We ratoon very little in Barbadoes, we are so subject to drought; we plant every year as a general rule; a few of the more favoured estates in the country ratoon, but at most for two years, but that is in a very limited degree. 7553. You think two hogsheads an acre is the fair average of the island ?— Certainly not more; it is an average which any planter would feel very well satisfied with. 7554. Do you think it would he a fair average for the whole of the West India islands ?—I am not prepared to speak as to that. 7555. Do you know any particular case in which a larger amount has been raised upon a small piece of land ?—Yes ; I myself have produced at least four hogsheads from one acre of land under peculiar circumstances of advantage. 7556. Do you think it is quite impossible to produce a larger quantity on the average than two hogsheads ?—Experience has proved it beyond a doubt; we have had recourse to every description of manure, and, as I before said, there is nothing which has been left unattempted in the little island of Barbadoes. 75,57. Are you put to any inconvenience from the want of continuous labour in Barbadoes?—Sometimes we suffer; the people naturally take advantage of us during crop time, but those are difficulties which the planters find means of getting over. 7558. You have an ample supply of labour, even in crop time, have not you ?—Yes, I may undertake to say that we have, with improved wages, occasionally. 7559. You really do not suffer very much from the want of continuous labour ?—No. 7560. You would not put that forward as one of your grievances ?—No, that is not to any serious extent, though we do feel some inconvenience occasionally. 7561. Do you know what number of people are employed on your estate in the actual cultivation of the cane; what would you consider the fair average number of men per acre ?—I have never considered that. 7562. What number of hogsheads did you make?—From 100 to 150. 7563. What number of labourers had you ?—It varied at particular periods of the year, but on an average from 60 to 70. 7564. That is an average of two hogsheads for each man?—That is a sort of calculation we do make in Barbadoes. 7565. Do you think that may be considered as at all the average of the island ?—I am not prepared to answer the question. In that number of labourers I include second and third class. I do not speak of the effective people in that; they are not so large a number; I should say certainly not more than 40 or 50; and it is to this proportion I refer the average of two hogsheads per head. 7566. You do not think you had more than 70 employed altogether ?—No. 7567. Would

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

225

623

7567. Would you have wished to employ more if you could have done so ?— Mr. H. Dummett At times; all those labourers have their provision lands; we are subject to drought March 1848. in Barbadoes, and it is necessary to take advantage when the rains come in ; and 8 when the labourers are most required they are commonly planting on their own land, and it is at that time that we feel the change of things. 7568. When were you in Barbadoes last ?—A good many years ago. 7569. You cannot speak to the scarcity of provisions which has prevailed there recently?—Only by hearsay; I am informed that it has prevailed to a serious degree in consequence of drought, and that owing to the Americans having found a better market they have ceased to supply us altogether, and the island was reduced to an alarming state. 7570. How do the Americans get paid for their provisions ?—They will accept nothing but specie, and they drain every shilling from the island. 7571. Does the colony suffer great inconvenience from that ?—Hitherto they have not suffered much, as long as the Barbadoes Bank and the Mercantile Bank existed. 7572. But now that they have stopped, do you think it will be a serious inconvenience to the colony ?—Very great; they have been reduced to a state of barter; there is no circulating medium in the country. 7573. There is nothing that the Americans could take back in exchange for their provisions ?—Nothing. 7574. Therefore they are forced to take specie?—They are. 7575. Mr. M. Gibson.] You mentioned that you had had dry seasons lately in Barbadoes ; have they had any effect in producing the present depression ?—No. 7576. Do you mean that the drought has not been injurious ?—The drought has not affected the crop of last year ; the crop is a very good one, and we have a fair prospect for the coming year as regards the quantity. 7577. You are subject to occasional dry seasons in Barbadoes?—Yes, the island is more subject to drought than the neighbouring islands. 7578. Has not that had a tendency to increase the cost of cultivation and to lessen the amount of produce ?—It is not unusual; it is what we have always been accustomed to. 7579. You stated that there had been a great increase in the cost of cultivation ; are you aware of the fact that there was laid before Parliament, in the year 1830-31, a statement, derived from a great number of properties, of the average cost of producing a hundredweight of sugar in the West Indies, Barbadoes being included, and that the value then stated was 15 s. 10 d. a cwt. including the value of the rum, but not including the interest on capital in the land or buildings, or in the negroes; how do you reconcile the statement which you make with that statement; you make the cost of cultivation to be 17 s. now, and they made it in 1830-31 to be 15 s. 10 d. ?—I should wish to be understood as speaking only as regards the period of time within my own knowledge. I speak of Barbadoes during apprenticeship, and I speak of Barbadoes as it is to-day. 7580. Has not the cost of production in Barbadoes always been less than the average cost in the other West India colonies?—I believe it has. 7581. Are you aware of the fact that there was laid before Parliament in 1830-31 a statement as to the average cost of producing a hundredweight of sugar in the whole of the West India colonics ?—I am not aware of it. 7582. You are not aware that it was then stated to be 15 s. 10 d. per cwt. ?— No, I am not. 7583. Do you know Hugh Hindman, esq., of Barbadoes?—The name is familiar to me, but I do not know the gentleman personally. 7584. Before a Committee of the House of Commons he stated that he believed the population of Barbadoes then had extended to such a degree that the difficulty of supporting so large a number deprived the planter of some advantages which he might have possessed before the population was so dense; this was in the year 1832. Do you consider that Barbadoes could part with any of its population in order to fill up deficiencies in other islands ; or do you think that there is no evil in this density which Mr. Hindman mentions?—I should think that Barbadoes could afford to part with no portion of the labouring population, though the island is very densely populated; the agricultural portion of the population is by no means too great for our wants. 0.32. G G 7585. Then

226

7585. Then you do not agree with Mr. Hindman, that there was an evil which Barbadoes laboured under from the amount of its population ?—No, I do not 1848. think so. I consider Barbadoes was very well able to feed its own population ; and I regard Barbadoes, from the high state of cultivation that things are brought to there, as one of the most extraordinary spots in the world. 7586. You mentioned that an estate in Barbadoes had been sold previous to the Bill of 1846, that gave an income of 600 /. a year, for 22,000 /.; are you aware that that is a greater number of years' purchase than the best estates in England would fetch in the market; that it is 32 years' purchase ?—That is not the way we calculate it. 7587. Do not you think that 32 years' purchase of the net income of the property is a good price to give for a good landed estate in this country ?—I should say it was. 7500. Is it not an extraordinary tact that property in Barbadoes should be fetching a greater number of years' purchase upon its net income than property does in this country ?—There was a time, I believe, when no property paid better than property in the West Indies. 7589. Was it ever considered worth as many years' purchase as estates in this country ?—I am not prepared to say that; but property in the West Indies, under favourable circumstances, used to give a very good return. Barbadoes has been subject for a series of years to drought, which does not fall upon the estates generally, but there are certain districts which are more subject to it than others. Although this property was only paying 600 I. a year, there was the land sufficient to realize much more, and that acted upon the price of the property, as I explained before. 7590. What addition do you propose should be made in the present price of sugar?—I do not propose anything; but without a differential duty of 11 s. a cwt., my opinion is that the greater proportion of the estates in Barbadoes will pass out of cultivation. 7591. Do you know Mr. Mayers, the agent for Barbadoes?—I have the pleasure of seeing him here to-day. 7592. Do you recollect any other periods of greater distress in Barbadoes than the present ?—I remember the effects of the hurricane in 1831, and there was at that time a panic in the island, but that would bear no comparison with the present. I remember nothing that would bear the slightest comparison with the present state of things. 7593. In the evidence which was given before a Committee of the House of Commons, in 1832, it was stated by Mr. Mayers, the agent for Barbadoes, that the sugar of Barbadoes did not then net more than 12 l. or 13 l. per hogshead; it nets as much as that now, does it not ?—That is a matter of opinion, but I should say it is thereabouts. I have put it down at 15 l. 7594. Then it nets more now than it did in 1832 ?—It would seem so. 7595. Then the distress is not so great now as it was then ?—I cannot agree with you there, because the price termed "net" does not mean "profit," the 15 I. being the short price, from which is to be deducted the expenses of production. 7596. Why is your condition worse now than it was in 1832, since you net more upon your sugar than you did then?—Because the relative expenses are greater now than they were then. 7597. Was not the 4 1/2 per cent, duty then paid ?—I believe it was. 7598. Has not that been since taken off?—That would bear no comparison with the present expenses. 7599. But is not that a diminution?—Yes, it is. 7600. What addition to the cost of cultivation can you state has happened since that time?—I have already stated what the expense is. 7601. You reckon now all the cost of labour ; you did not in the previous calculation of expense give us the expense of apprentices ; you stated that you did not know the expense of apprentices ?—The expense was the growing of provisions for them, and clothing them, and housing them ; it was comparatively trilling, clothing being the only money expense. 7602. It is the fact that this 41/2 per cent, duty pressed to some extent at that time, and increased the cost of production, and that it has since been removed.'' —Unquestionably that has been a relief to the planters. 7603. But

Mr H. Dummett. 8 March

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 227 7603. But you did not net so much then as you do now ?—I do not remember the state of things then. 7604. But that was a period of distress ?—No doubt it was. 7605. Do not you consider that the charges upon the sale, and the commissions, add considerably to the whole cost, and diminish the amount that you net upon a hundredweight of sugar, to a considerable extent?—The charges are heavy. 7606. What should you say would be the amount of the sale charges, such as you have alluded to, upon a hundredweight of sugar ?—I am not prepared to say. 7607. You are not prepared to say whether any diminution in those items might not give relief, to some extent, to the planters ?—There can be no question that anything that went to reduce their expenses must naturally go to relieve them. 7608. Do you think it possible to reduce those expenses ?—Not largely. 7609. Has there not been a diminution of expense in consequence of lowering the absolute amount of duty, inasmuch as the commission is taken upon the long price ?—A very trifling reduction, when contrasted with the additional expense of cultivating. 7610. You state that you are prepared to ask the Legislature for a protection of lis. a cwt., with the view of encouraging the cultivation of sugar; supposing, in stimulating the cultivation of sugar, the British colonies should produce more than British consumers could take, what would you do with the surplus ?—That is a question that I am not prepared to speak to. 7611. Can you offer any guarantee to the Legislature that the quantity produced shall be within the demand of this country, so that the price that you think necessary shall be secured ?—I cannot. 7612. If a larger quantity of sugar were produced under the stimulus of this protection than English consumers could take off, the surplus would have to be sold in the continental markets?—I presume it would. 7613. And the price of sugar would, after all, come to be the price of slavegrown sugar, inasmuch as it would have to compete with the slave grown sugar sold on the Continent?—That J do not see at all. 7614. Can there be two prices ?—I am not prepared to admit it or deny it; I do not understand it sufficiently to go so far with you. 7615. Can you offer a guarantee?—It is totally out of the question; I am here merely to speak to the present state of the island of Barbadoes, and the depression prevailing in the West Indies. 7616. Why do you think 11 s. protection would get you out of your difficulties ?—Because nothing short of that would, I think, put us on a footing with the sugar grown in the slave colonies, and would enable us to compete with them. 7617. Do you think if nothing be done, if the state of things in Barbadoes be left to operate its own cure, the planters can do nothing for themselves, either in reference to a different system of cultivation, or any reference to lessening the charges upon sales and importations ?—I do not think it is in the planter's power to benefit his position ; nothing short of a general measure of Government, for their protection, can save them from utter ruin. 7618. Do you think that, with regard to the fertility of the soil of Barbadoes, it is as great as the fertility of the soil of Guiana and some other islands ?— I do not; hut I think, from the high state of cultivation, Barbadoes may be regarded as beating all the world, and that there is no part of the world that does as much as Barbadoes. 7619. I find that Mr. Mayers stated that 200 days' labour would be required in Demerara to produce 5,000 pounds weight of sugar, but that in Bax*badoes it would require 400 days' labour to produce the same quantity of sugar ; if that be the case, how do you think that you will be able to compete with Demerara, if Demerara should extend very materially its cultivation, and supply very largely the market with sugar ?—I think Barbadoes will hold its own way in the British colonies, under any circumstances. 7620. Is not that a great disadvantage you are under, that it requires 400 days' labour in Barbadoes to do what can be done in Demerara with 200 days' labour ?—'That I am not prepared to go into ; I know nothing of the cultivation in Demerara. G G 2 0.32. 7621. Do

625 Mr. H. Dummett. 8 March 1848.

228 Mr. H. Dummett. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

7621. Do not you think that if your soil were less fertile, and you had other disadvantages that were peculiar to Barbadoes, you would require a greater amount of protection than other islands, in respect to those disadvantages ?— I do not think we should; the same protection as other islands had would always satisfy Barbadoes. 7622. You think that you would want as much protection as the others, but not more ?—Just so. 7623. Do you know what per-centage on the property of the estates this 4 1/2 per cent, duty was ?—I am not aware. 7624. You do not know to what extent the removal of that duty operated as a relief?—No : it was regarded as a positive relief, and was felt to be such. 7625. Mr. Moffatt.] You stated that you were a planter; for how many years were you actually engaged in the cultivation of sugar ?—Thirteen years. 7626. Have you with you a statement of the accounts of the estate for any one or more years ?—I have not. 7627. Have you got them in this country?—I have not. I was myself an independent planter; I kept no books whatever. 7628. Then the statements of costs which you have given to-day are given from memory ?—No, not altogether; I thought you alluded to the profit on the estate. As regards the expenses of the estate, they were precisely what I have stated. 7629. Which I understand to be, that the sugar cost you, according to your most recent expense, at the rate of 16 l. 7s. a ton in Barbadoes, and the freight and charges were 7 l. a ton, making a total of 23 /. 7 s. a ton ?—No. I consider that the landing of sugar in this country, when it is brought to the British market, stands us in about from 15 l. to 17/. per hogshead of 18 cwt.; but as regards that calculation, I would not be supposed to speak critically ; I speak in round numbers of the expense of production only. We were in the hope of reaping from 100 to 150 hogsheads upon the estate, and I set the expense at 1,700l. per annum, which would be the same whatever crop the estate made. 7630. The Committee are desirous that you should speak from positive facts which come within your own knowledge, and not from information which has been derived from others ?—I speak as a proprietor; that is the expense that I stand charged with in growing that sugar; the smaller calculations I have not gone into. 7631. That would make 17/. a ton?—Yes, I should say so; but then there is something to be taken from that, for rum and molasses. 7632. There is 1l. 13s. to be taken off for that?—That would be the outside. 7633. The freight and charges are 7 l., making 24/. a ton; are you aware whether Barbadoes sugar commands in this market a higher price, by reason of its whiteness and generally superior quality, than other West Indian sugar ?— Yes, I am aware of that. 7634. Will you be good enough to state what you realized upon that sugar when you brought it to this market ?—I am not prepared to speak to that particularly. 7635. You cannot give information of the actual price realized in this market ?—I cannot. 7636. Are you aware that for the year 1847, the Gazette average price of West India sugar was 28 s. 6 d. per cwt. ?—No, I am not. I am afraid there is some mistake in the estimate which you have made; you made the expense more than I intended to show ; 24 l. is more for the cost of producing and landing sugar than I had intended to state. I think the cost of producing the sugar and bringing it here is less than 24 /. 7637. Then the average price of Barbadoes sugar in the year 1847 was 42 s. 6 d. per cwt.; that, less the duty, gives a price to the importer of 28 s. 6 d. per cwt., or 28 /. 7 s. per ton; and supposing the cost of importing to amount to 24 /. a ton ?—That is, I should say, beyond the mark. 7638. We will take it at 23 /. a ton ?—When I spoke of 18 /. to 20/., I consider that Barbadoes sugar may be imported into this country, and brought to this market, with the present reduced rate of wages, at the expense of 18/. to 20 /. sterling, including everything of a local nature; but that which you state is not a fact that I am competent to speak to. 7639. Then the price which the importer obtained on the average of the year

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 229 year 1847 was 28 s. 6 d. per cwt.; with that price do you estimate that the estates in Barbadoes are in the course of being ruined, when they are producing a profit of 10 l. a ton ?—I have not made any calculation of that sort. 7640. But it appears from your evidence that there is a very considerable profit to the importer of Barbadoes sugar at the present time ?—I have shown that there is no profit to the planter; I spoke as regards the planter in the West Indies, that the price of sugar here is not a remunerating one, and does not exceed the cost of growing. 7641. Do you speak from your own experience?—I do. 7642. What price did you obtain for those sugars which did not pay you in 1847?—The prices varied of sugars that came from Barbadoes; I know that some of them brought 20 l., but I have stated that, to the best of my knowledge, the average price was not exceeding 15 l. 7643. That is the price in this market ?—Yes. 7644. To which you must add the duty of 9 /. a ton ?—I speak of the net. proceeds to the planter. 7645. Do not you know the price that your sugar sold at in this market ?— No, I do not. 7646. You have been resident here for a twelvemonth ?—Yes ; but I cannot state what the price was. 7647. Can you give a rough idea ?—I am prepared to state what the sugars averaged; they netted to me 201, sterling a hogshead, from which is to be deducted the cost of production and a few trifling island charges. 7648. What price were they sold at in this market ?—I do not remember. 7649. Can you give the Committee no idea of whether they were sold at 40s. or 50s.?—I suppose nearer 50s. than 40s. 7650. That would be equivalent to 50 l. a ton?—That is duty included, and everything else; after paying all expenses it netted me something like 20 s. per cwt.; that is the net value here, equivalent therefore to 18 l. a hogshead of 18 cwt. 7651. You state that notwithstanding these returns, you are quite satisfied that the planters in Barbadoes can never compete with the slave labour of Porto Rico; can you give any information as to the cost of slave labour in Porto Rico ?—I am not prepared to do that; but I am induced to arrive at that conclusion from the feeling of people who have property in the West Indies, and from having heard it stated on all hands, owing to the difference in the cost of growing sugar in the West India colonies and in the slave colonies. 7652. You know nothing of your own knowledge of the cost of growing sugar in Porto Rico ?—Nothing whatever. 7653. But you favoured the Committee with an opinion that we could not compete with the labour of Porto Rico ?—I gave that as my opinion. 7654. You stated that a great inconvenience was felt in Barbadoes by reason of the scarcity of labour?—No. 7655. Have you no scarcity of labour there ?—At times we feel the effect of the late measures, but we can always command labour. 7656. How many acres do you estimate are under cultivation in Barbadoes ? —I am not prepared to say, but every acre of land in the island that is capable of cultivation is cultivated. I believe the gross sum of acres is stated to be

106,000. 7657. Do you know the number of negroes in Barbadoes ?—No. 7658. Sir E. Buxton.] Do you know how many there were in the time of slavery ?—No, I do not. 7659. Mr. Moffatt.] Are you aware that the population, according to the returns, is equivalent to 246 a square mile ?—I am aware that it is equivalent to 730. 7660. What number of acres of your estate were under cane cultivation?— One hundred and forty acres. 7661. For which you employed 70 labourers?—Yes. I spoke of 70 as not the best class of labourers; there were 40 or 50 effective labourers on the estate. 7662. If there are 730 human beings to every square mile in Barbadoes, and you require for the cultivation of 140 acres 70 efficient labourers, surely there can be no scarcity of labour in Barbadoes ?—I have not stated that there was G G 3 any 0.32.

627 Mr. H. Dummett. 8 March 1848.

230

H. Dummett. any great scarcity of labour. At times the effects of the new system are felt; when labourers are most required they seek their own lands, and it is then we March 1848. are subject to temporary inconvenience. 7663. You stated in answer to a question from Mr. Miles, that your land produced 260 hogsheads per 100 acres?—I gave as an average two hogsheads per acre of plant canes. 7664. And you had 140 acres under sugar cultivation ?—Yes. 7665. What do you state the produce of your estate to be?—Only one-half of the land under sugar cultivation is planted annually ; that would reduce the quantity of land cultivated each year to 60 or 70 acres. 7666. Mr. Miles.'] There are only 70 acres cut every year?—Yes, and those not all first crop canes. 7667. Mr. Moffatt.] You stated that property in the island of Barbadoes had in the last two years been very much injured by drought ?—We are subject to drought. 7668. You attribute the present depression in the value of land in Barbadoes to the visitation of drought?—On the contrary, I said we had made fair average crops, and there were good prospects for the coming year. 7069. In the year 1847 you were subject to drought?—We are more or less subject to drought every year. 7670. Is it the fact, that in the year 1847 you produced a larger quantity of sugar in Barbadoes than in any other year in the previous 20 years ?—No, I think it was in 1846 that the country produced so very large a quantity ; the cultivation has not fallen off in Barbadoes by any means ; the cane cultivation has been increased in consequence of the growing of provisions being abandoned ; that may account for the increase of the quantity of sugar. 7671. You do not explain to the Committee how, with an apparent profit, you arrive at the conclusion that at the gathering in of this crop, the cultivation of sugar in Barbadoes will be abandoned ?—If the price of sugar remains as it is just now in England; it does not in a great many instances come near the cost of growing it. 7672. It exceeds, in a variety of instances, the cost of growing it, as you have given it to the Committee ?—I have alluded to the average in speaking of 15 but some sugar did not sell for more than 11 I. 7673. Has any sugar imported from Barbadoes sold in this market at a less price than 36 I. a ton ?—I spoke as to the sugar per hogshead, and the expense, and the sum that it netted to the planter. 7674. Did you try the sugar under the new process ?—I did. 7675. Did that remunerate you?—By no means; I produced an improved sugar in appearance, but when exhibited for sale here it proved of so light a nature that it realized me nothing more than the other. 7676. In what year was that?—In 1846. 7677. What rate of duty did you pay upon that sugar?—The same duty; it was not so much improved as to be subject to an additional duty. 7678. Is much of the land in Barbadoes mortgaged?—A good deal. 7679. What is the rate of interest on the mortgages there ?—Six per cent. 7680. And the sugars of the mortgaged estates, I suppose, are consigned to houses here ?—Yes. 7681. Chairman.] Mr. Milner Gibson asked you how you accounted for estates in Barbadoes selling for 30 years' purchase previous to 1846; that was before the Whigs came into power ?—It was. 7682. Since the Whigs came into power you do not mean to say that estates in Barbadoes have been sold for 30 years' purchase, or anything of that kind'! —It was two years ago that this estate was sold. 7683. With reference to the cost of production, did the Committee understand you to say that the original gross cost was 1,700 l., which was equal to 17 l. a hogshead of 18 cwt. ?—That I speak of as tin; present expense. 7684. That I understand to be the expense of the year 1847?—Yes, it was. 7685. You told the Committee that the value of the half-puncheon of molasses, to be deducted from that, was 1 l. 13 s. 4 d.; that left a gross sum of 15 l. 6s. 8 d.; but you found in the early part of this year that the wages of labourers had been reduced 25 per cent., which you said might be applied to 1,200 ?. out of the 1,700 l.; that is to say, it would be equivalent to a reduction of

Mr. 8

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

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231

of 300 l., or in other words to 3 s. per cwt., which reduces the price of sugar to 12 l. 6s. Sd. per hogshead, which is equal to 13s. 8 1/4 d. per cwt. I have calculated it, and I find that that is the practical result of the figures you have given us : adding 7 s. as the cost of freight, charges, and commission, it would seem that you can buy sugar now, under the reduced wages of your labourers (supposing them to continue), in the London market at 20s. 81/4 d. per cwt.; is not that the case ?—It would seem so. I have not entered into the calculation, but I go along with you, and it appears to me to be so. 7686. If the Committee understand you, this is the absolute cost, without leaving any profit ?—Yes ; without leaving any interest on the money invested in the property.

629 Mr. H. Dummett. 8 March 1848.

Henry Crosley, Esq., called in; and Examined. 7687. Chairman.] I BELIEVE that you are a Refiner ?—I have been a Refiner, but I am now an Engineer; for the last 18 years I have been acting as an engineer, chiefly of machinery and apparatus for the manufacture of sugar. 7688. You continue, though now an engineer, to perform a variety of experiments upon the refining of sugar ?—Not exactly on the refining; I have devoted my attention for the last 18 years exclusively to the business of improving the qualities of colonial sugar; prior to that, I was engaged both in the manufacture of sugar for my own account in this country, and likewise in France, for I may say 20 years. I was three years in France, and I introduced there some of the improvements in the English system of refining; I am, therefore, practically acquainted with the refining of sugar. 7689. What is the result of your experience and the knowledge that you have acquired upon the subject ?—The products of refined sugar depend greatly upon the quality of the raw material which is used; when I say raw material, I do not mean to apply that merely to raw or muscovado sugar, but there are different sugars, such as the clayed sugar, which is imported for refining in bond, which gives a much larger product than muscovado sugar. I have samples with me, in order to show the variations; if it is thought advisable I will produce them. 7690. Will you be good enough to produce them?—(The Witness produced the same.) That is an average of muscovado British plantation sugar ; this is rather above the average of the Khaur sugar made in the East Indies; both these pay the same duty; that is a sample of sugar imported from the Brazils, on which a duty of 20s. has been paid. In speaking of this being the average of sugar of the British plantations I except Barbadoes, because the sugars of Barbadoes are superior to the others in colour. 7691. What are the respective prices of these, taken at the long price?—At present I have no knowledge whatever of the sugar market; my attention is confined solely to machinery. I do not know either the long or the short prices of sugar. 7692. I thought the object of your evidence was to show that Cuba sugar, admitted at a duty which was supposed to represent an equal quantity of East or West India sugar, was of a very far superior quality to those ?—It is so far superior, that it will require 1 1/2 cwt. of West India muscovado sugar to equal a cwt. of Brazil sugar or Cuba sugar clayed. 7693. How would the comparison be as regards the Khaur? —Of Khaur, of the quality which was imported five or six months ago, it would take 1 $ cwt. to make 1 cwt. like unto clayed. I stated in a letter which I wrote upon this subject to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that I was prepared to prove that such was the case, and I am prepared to do it now; if I have a few days' notice I will put before you sugar of any quality you please, to show that I am perfectly correct in stating that it takes 1 £ cwt. of British plantation sugar to equal a cwt. of Brazil or Cuba sugar clayed, such as the samples produced. 7694. How can you prove that to the Committee ?—An experiment may be made even in this room: you have only to put into an apparatus a given quantity of sugar, and in a short period of time, and without any annoyance, the produce will be before you, and when weighed it will be seen that what I state is the fact, that 1J cwt. of sugar of the British plantations is equal to 1 cwt. of clayed sugar of the Brazils. With respect to the refining of sugar, 1 cwt. of clayed sugar, such as that sample of clayed, would yield 102 lbs. of refined 0. 32.G G 4 "

H. Crosley, Esq.

232 H. Crosley, Esq. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

refined loaves and lumps, and a cwt. of the muscovado British plantation sugar would yield about 80 lbs. of refined loaves and lumps; showing that the clayed sugar is a superior sugar for refining, and it is therefore preferred by the refiners to muscovado sugar. 7695. But that does not come up to the difference between 1 cwt. and 11/2 cwt.?—In refining this sugar, 112 lbs. of clayed would not give 112 lbs. of refined sugar; there would be 102 lbs. of refined sugar; the remainder would be a portion bastard sugar and a portion molasses, because if you were to take the very finest lump sugar and reduce it to a solution, and then refine it, you would have some bastard sugar and treacle; in the process of refining, the action of heat necessarily employed reduces the quantity of refined sugar. 7696. I do not clearly understand how that accords with your statement that 11/2 cwt. of one sugar is only equivalent to 1 cwt. of the other ?—The raw sugar can be divested of the colouring matter that surrounds each crystal; the heart of each crystal is white, consequently by discharging that colouring matter you have a white product, and the sugar in Cuba and in Brazil goes through the process of claying, and it is for that reason it is called clayed sugar, by which claying the inferior part is dissolved and removed that surrounds the fine part, or the heart, and in consequence of that it takes a greater quantity of the raw sugar to produce the same quantity of refined sugar as 1 cwt. of clayed sugar would produce. 7697. According to your doctrine, if it is correct, assuming Cuba and Brazil sugar to come in at an equal duty of 14 s. with British West India muscovado, it would practically come in at a premium of 7 s. ?—Undoubtedly it does; I have no hesitation in saying so, and proof of that may be given without any difficulty and without any annoyance ; it can be proved to you in the course of half an hour that such is the fact. I have worked 10,000 tons for the purpose of ascertaining that; therefore I am not speaking merely from theory, but from extensive practice. 7698. You are prepared before this Committee to prove that on a future day ? —I am; it can be done merely by using a small apparatus; it would be necessary to show the thing in a glass pan; a pound or two pounds weight or half a pound of sugar in its raw state is to be put into that pan, and you will shortly have the product; and that may be weighed after it is dried, and you would find that it would come as nearly as possible to what I state, that is, that 1 1/2 cwt. of raw sugar is equal to 1 cwt. of Brazil or Cuba clayed sugar. 7699. Can you bring that apparatus to this Committee-room ?—Yes; but then I must bring power to work it. It is worked by an air pump and pure water, but that is not the process in use in Brazil. They obtain water from the clay; it is the water that leaves the clay that percolates through the mass of sugar in the moulds ; for in Cuba they work in moulds similar to those used by the sugar refiners. I had to show this process as a substitute for claying, some years ago, to Mr. Gladstone and Mr. Moss, at Liverpool, at the Bank. 7700. Do you mean old Mr. Gladstone, the present Sir John Gladstone ?— Yes. 7701. To what opinion did they come?—Their object was to bring their sugar to this country and here divest it of all colouring matter, with the view of selling it in this country as white crystalline sugar. It was sugar made by a particular process, viz. the vacuum-pan. 7702. Do you know whether they succeeded ?—Mr. Moss did not go into it. He contemplated it for some time, and considering that it would cost a large sum to build a sugar-house and suitable premises, he abandoned it, and did not proceed with it; but he paid the royalty chargeable in Demerara for the use of that process in making sugar, and that process is used to this hour for making the crystalline sugar imported into this country; but the same effect can be produced in this country by claying, or by a mixture of sugar and water, which percolates through the mass, and divests each crystal, whether it is large or small, of every portion of the carbonaceous matter which surrounds each crystal; and the brownest sugar that you can find, sugar even of the lowest quality, may be made white in that way, but still it yields a proportionately smaller quantity. 7703. How is it that while you make this great distinction between the sugars, viz. between 1 1/2 cwt. and 1 cwt., you say that if it undergoes the process of refining, 1 cwt. of superior sugar will make 102 lbs. refined loaves, and the

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 233 the British muscovado will make 80 lbs. of refined loaves?—The reason is this, that in the process of refining, the action of heat is detrimental to the crystallization and quantity of the sugar; by boiling the sugar at a low temperature, by the vacuum pan, or as it can be so boiled in an open pan, there is a difference of 10 per cent, more in the produce of white refined sugar; in this process of discharging the coloured and inferior part from 1 1/2 cwt. muscovado to yield 1 cut. resembling clayed sugar, there is no heat required; it is nothing but pure cold water and the atmospheric air that I used; and that produces sugar such as they produce in Brazil. But in the process of refining, where you have the action of heat, the syrups have to be mixed with other sugars, and so they descend in a regular grade in refining; the first product is very fine loaves, the second inferior loaves, the third lumps, the fourth inferior, and the fifth bastard sugar; that is a species of raw sugar, and the drainage from that is the treacle of commerce. I am intimately acquainted with all the processes, both the old process and the new method of refining. The new method is the best, and more advantageous to the refiner than the old ; scarcely any refiner now employs the old process. The improved process was introduced by the late Hon. Mr. Howard. The same method has been partially employed in the British West Indies, more considerably in Demerara than in any of the other colonies. By concentrating the syrup in a vacuum pan, and by the pneumatic process alluded to, they discharge by this last process (and I was the maturer of it) the colouring matter from the crystals. When the vacuum pan is used the sugar is taken very often out of the pan and it is dropped into a pneumatic pan, and in a very short time, by the use of an air-pump, all the colouring or mucous matter is discharged, by merely using a small quantity of cold water, and you have then the perfectly white crystalline sugar. 7704. Have you anything more to state on that point?—I state, in my letter to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that as 168 lbs. weight, or 1 1/2 cwt., of muscovado is required to produce 112 lbs. clayed, therefore if calculated at 20 s., the present duty, that which should be charged would amount to 1 /. 10 s. To equalize the differential and supposed protective duty on British muscovado, as 112 lbs. or one cwt. of muscovado really represents only 75 lbs. of clayed, the duty on the former ought to be at the rate of 145. per cwt., or 95. 4 J d., thus showing that the grower of British muscovado sugar pays an excess of duty upon each cwt. of 4 s. 7 J d., which makes up the 14 s. per cwt.; consequently the differential and protective duty upon foreign clayed sugar not white, contrasted with that upon British muscovado, to equalize the duties the foreign clayed ought to he charged 16 s. per cwt., which rate of 16 s. per cwt. would justly be the differential and protective duty, in addition to 14 s. per cw t., or total 30 s. per cwt. upon foreign clayed sugar not white, in lien of 6 s. in addition to 14 s., or 20 s. per cwt. now charged upon this description of sugar. Therefore the revenue sustains a loss of 10 s. per cwt. on foreign clayed sugars not white, imported under the Act of Vict. 9 & 10, c. 63, which also operates to the disadvantage of the growers of British muscovado raw sugar, who eventually, if the said Act is not remodeled to give them only a fair protection, must be ruined altogether. (The Witness delivered in the Letters.) 7705. Mr. Wilson.] Is this sample which you have produced Brazil sugar clayed ?—Yes. 7706. They use the claying process in Brazil ?—Yes. I have had to do in former years considerably with Cuba, and I know therefore their mode of working. I have not been there, neither have I been in the West Indies, but my principal knowledge of the manufacture of their sugar has been founded upon the making of raw sugar from beetroot, which being an inferior raw material to that of the cane juice, we have from that data to improve the quality of sugars in the British West India colonies. I have been in most of the large sugar manufactories of beetroot on the Continent. I have watched its progress from the year 1817. 7707. Have you been in France lately?—Not lately; I was once established in the environs of Paris, and I built a large sugar factory there. 7708. Do you know the new process of refining direct from the root ? No. 7709. You are not aware that it is now universally practised in the large factories in France ?—The people that I have had in my employment have toTd 0.32. Hh me

631 H. Crosley, Esq. 8 March 1848.

Vide Appendix.

234 H. Crosley, Esq. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

me that they were making the sugar in some factories direct from the syrup, without making it into raw sugar first. 7710. Are you aware that there is great economy in that?—I think there is; I have seen one of the largest sugar factories in Europe, viz. the factory in the Grand Duchy of Baden. 7711. How long was that ago?—Six or seven years ago; they made about 15, 16, or 17 tons of sugar a day, but that was made into raw sugar, not for the purpose of sale in that state, but for the purpose of refining; they have a refinery attached to their sugar works. 7712. You are speaking of what took place six or seven years ago?—Yes, but there has been no improvement upon the beetroot sugar beyond that; that factory stands pre-eminent; they get a greater weight of raw sugar from a cwt. of beet by that process than they do by the old-fashioned method of rasping. I have myself made beetroot sugar in this country, by special permission of the Lords of the Treasury, and with exemptions from the Excise, with respect to their nicety of examination, merely to ascertain whether raw sugar could be made from beetroot of marketable quality, and I have come to the conclusion that it can be done, and beautiful sugar made from it. I made several tons under that special permission. 7713. Are you aware whether the factory at Baden is now going on?—It is not the factory at Baden that I allude to; I have had no communication of late , whom with the party. I read in the papers lately that the Baron de H I know personally, and who was the founder of that company with Mr. • has stopped ; I was sent for specially by them to survey their works; I cannot exactly tell you the year, but I saw their works at Ettlingen, where the process was carried on with cold water; and I was also at Waghaüsel 12 months after they had got into full work. 7714. Are you not aware that that manufactory has stopped, and that the concern has failed ?—I have heard that it has failed, but I have also heard that it is going on again, and not merely that, hut that they are largely interested in engineering works at Carlsruhe. The Duke was interested in cotton factories as well as other works. 7715. You have shown us a sample of Khaur sugar, the duty upon which is the same as upon the average West India sugar?—Precisely the same. 7716. This sugar would not be brought into this country at the present duty as an article of consumption ?—It is not fit for any domestic use, only for the refiner. I have been making experiments with Khaur to purify it. 7717. Are you aware that the Khaur sugar has been latterly found to be so very inapplicable for home consumption here, either for the refiners or for grocery purposes, that a large portion of what has come here has been reexported to the Continent?—I do not know; I have no dealings in sugar. I can speak to this, that I happen to have five bags of Khaur sugar; it was bought for experiment 14 months ago. The price I gave for it was 38 s., and I wished lately to part with it, and in the market it is not worth half that sum It is unsaleable. 7718. You have described to the Committee the great disadvantage under which low qualities of sugar come into consumption in comparison with high qualities, in consequence of the duty being charged upon the greater quantity of residuum in the low quality sugar ?—Exactly ; we may divide it in this way: 80 lbs. of white refined would be as much as you could possibly get from 1 cwt. of the average quality of British plantation raw, and when the inferior part has been discharged, whether by claying or by any other process, you would get from 1 cwt. 100 lbs. or 102 lbs. of refined loaves and lumps; consequently refiners will always give the preference to those sugars, and those sugars, as per sample, are principally imported for use of the refiners; they are not white enough for the scale. 7719. When a refiner takes sugar into his refinery, is there any distinction made by Government of the quality of the raw sugar that he takes into his refinery as to the produce ?—None ; the refiner pays the duty, and when the duty has been paid upon the raw material, whether it is clayed sugar or muscovado, the Government have nothing further to do with it. He makes the best product lie can from the raw material. 7720. The effect of that is, that it is a higher duty upon the sugars of a lower quality?—Much higher. 7721. Is

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 235 7721. Is there any method you could suggest to the Committee by which that inequality might be done away, without being prejudicial to the revenue, or to the planter?—Formerly the refiners obtained a considerable bounty on making representations to the Government that they obtained only 63 lbs. of refined sugar out of 112 lbs. of raw. I had had some years' practice, and I knew that that was not the truth, and I therefore represented to the Government, in the year 1830, and not only then but subsequently many times, that the revenue had been injured by that means. I represented what the real quantities were, and I suggested the idea of having a Government sugar-house, which they followed, and some modification took place afterwards; but with respect to the exact quantity produced, one refiner will make three or four per cent, more than another, from superior mode of working. The only method I can suggest is that of putting the refiners under the Excise ; let them refine everything under the Excise. 7722. You would refine in bond ?—Yes. 7723. If you were to refine sugar in bond you think the effect would be to take away the great disadvantage arising from the various qualities of sugar which come into the market now, and enable every sugar to be sold in exact relation to its own intrinsic value ?—That is, if the quantity of sugar refined in this country was equal to the consumption, it would increase the refiners' trade; but it is not everybody who likes refined sugar; moist sugar is the article that is used in preference to refined for domestic uses in many instances. If they were to bring all the produce from the West Indies, and refine it here, there would be always a proportion of bastard sugar, but nothing equal to the quantity of raw or muscovado sugar which is used in this country; a larger proportion of the sugar used here is moist sugar. 7724. Have you paid any attention to the question of the desirableness of refining sugar in the colonies ?—I do not consider, in the present state in which they are, that it would be possible for them to do it, because the works suitable for the raw sugar are not, in fact, adapted for the claying or refining processes. 7725. They have neither labour nor capital sufficient for the purpose ?—That is one difficulty ; and the buildings are not suitable. 7726. Are you aware of any better or more economical mode by which sugar can be brought to this country from the colonies for the purpose of refining, if it were only brought for the purpose of refining?—Many years ago it was attempted to bring what: is termed cane-juice, that is, the juice of the cane after it has been clarified and evaporated to a certain consistence or specific gravity, it then becomes syrup, and in that state it may be brought, but as canejuice it would become sour, and it could not be brought. 7727. If what is strictly called cane-juice were brought home it would be liable to become acid ?—The sugar canes that I had brought for experiment, though the ends were pitched, yet the juice was acid. 7728. Juice partly evaporated and partly clarified may be safely brought without being subject to acidity ?—I think it could. 7729. Has it been brought to this country to any extent?—Yes, but not to any considerable extent; it was a new article to the refiners, and they found that it looked very well to the eye. I have seen parcels of it myself; but no one could tell how it would turn out in the refinery, for unless it is properly clarified, and after the clarification properly cleansed, though after it has been clarified the liquor or juice is as clear as sherry wine, when it is subjected to a certain degree of temperature from the action of the heat it becomes rather turbid, and those finer feculencies remaining in the clarified liquor must he separated by boiling and skimmed off; the dishonest planter might boil them up together and send it in that state. 7730. That would arise from a want of ability to judge of its quality ?—It is not possible to judge of it; if it had been a good tiling to bring it in that way, it would have been continued. There were many importations into this country of different descriptions of cane-juice. 7731. There is then more difficulty in judging of the quality of cane-juice than of the quality of muscovado sugar ?—Yes, decidedly. 7732. Have you seen what is called concrete?—I have not seen it, hut I presume it is a semi-crystalline mass ; and just the same observation' would apply to that; the clarification is the first operation, the cleansing is the second, 0.32.

H H 2

and

633 H. Crosley, Esq. 8 March 1848.

236 H. Crosley, Esq. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

and the boiling of the produce to the degree for crystallizing is the third. The making concrete, which is a semi-crystalline mass, could be done with a lower degree of heat; instead of boiling it at 240 degrees it might be boiled at 170 or 180; and then the sugar crystallizes in the pan; it is no uncommon thing to get concrete made in a vacuum pan, at a low temperature. I have myself made concrete at a low temperature in an open pan. 7733- You think that it would be impracticable, both in the case of canejuice and of concrete, for the refiner to ascertain the quality?—Yes; and till he got confidence he would be afraid to take it; but if justice was done to the cleansing of the juice, and after he had confidence, he might prefer it. 7734. Could he ascertain the quality by taking a sample and trying it ?—I do not think that he could ; it must go into the refinery in order to enable the refiner to ascertain the quality upon a business scale of working. 7735. Therefore he would prefer to purchase it in preference to the canejuice ?— Yes. I was once a considerable purchaser of West India molasses; I did it experimentally for seven years; I boiled 700 puncheons, and I sometimes found that West India molasses that had not any sugar deposit in the puncheon yielded me better than that which had a deposit. You never could tell the quality of the sugar to be made by the sample. 7736. Then, as far as your experience goes, the most convenient way for a merchant to dispose of his sugar to a refiner, as far as regards the certainty of its value, would be in its present state as muscovado ; that would be the safest for the buyer, viz. the refiner, and would afford the refiner the best test of the quality ?—No doubt, for this reason: it is not the sugar that is of the best colour that always turns out the best; on the contrary, the refiner generally prefers that which is of a grey hue for refining, and of course the sugar that the grocer would buy for domestic uses would not be the sugar suitable for the refiner, for it does not yield so much to him. 7737. The knowledge of the quality which the refiner has he acquires by habit?—Yes. 7738. l)o you think the same knowledge of the quality of concrete or canejuice might be acquired if he were in the habit of buying concrete or cane-juice -—I do not think it could. 7739- I wish to know whether the difficulty of ascertaining the quality arises from something which is inherent in the article, or does it arise from the refiner being unaccustomed to buy sugar in that form?—Till he had tried the new article of concrete or syrup to a greater extent than it has ever yet been tried in this country, the refiner would be very cautious of purchasing "this new article. 7740. If lie had been in the habit of buying it for five or six years, do you think that that habit would enable him to judge of the quality of concrete or juice in the same way as he can judge of the quality of sugar in the present state ?—Never. 7741. If the Committee understand you rightly, there would be a commercial inconvenience in importing sugar either as concrete, or as juice, or as syrup? —I think it would bear on the West India interest more than it would on the refiners. The refiners, even if they found it advantageous, would not go and tell the brokers that they were going to buy a parcel of it, and that they were very eager to have this in preference to any other description of sugar. 7742. As you think the present mode is the most convenient mode in which sugar can be imported, as fur as regards the buyer and seller, you are of opinion that the difficulty arising from the different qualities would be best got over by refining them in bond and paying the duty afterwards?—Yes, upon all the products except the treacle, which is considered not to pay any duty; that is generally considered to go into consumption without paying any duty, because when the drawback was exactly equal to the amount of duty charged upon the raw material molasses or treacle were excepted; they allowed refiners the drawback upon the exportation of 63 lbs. of white refined, and a certain quantity of bastard sugar, so as to equalize precisely the duty that the raw sugar hud been charged, but the treacle was always free. 7743. Do you think it would be a great advantage to the refiners to refine in bond ?—I do not think they would like to have the Excise at their houses. I have heard them express a feeling of that kind, but for my own part I think that

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 237 that there is no more difficulty about it than with respect to distillers; the exciseman is in the house in that case. 7744. Would it not save them a great outlay of capital ?—Certainly ; instead of paying the duties at once, it would be advantageous in that way, as they now refine in bond for exportation. 7745. Are you aware whether they find any practical inconvenience from the excise laws in protecting the revenue there?—I have not heard any complaint from them, but I do know a case where an attempt was made to import into this country what was called foreign molasses, and upon being sent for by the Custom-house, I explained that it was no other than a solution of good sugar; then they are obliged to export the whole of their products ; but coming in as foreign molasses, they wished to pay duty on it as foreign molasses. When I explained to the officers of customs the difference, I recommended them to restore the so-miscalled molasses only on the condition that it was to be refined under their particular inspection. 7746. If it was refined for exportation, what object could they have in attempting a fraud of that kind ?—The refiner had shipped a parcel of puncheons purporting to be molasses, and they were not molasses; he wished to import them paying the duty as foreign molasses, and then he wished to take them into consumption; that was not molasses, but it was a solution of good sugar. 7747. Do you know anything as to the relative cost of cane sugar and beetroot sugar?—I have gone very deeply into that; when the West Indies were in that dreadful state that one gentleman, Mr. Colville, said he would not give 1,500 l. for the finest estate in Jamaica, I contemplated establishing beetroot sugar works in this country. 7748. In what year was that?—I cannot say; but the establishment of beetroot sugar works in this country began in 1831 or 1832. I went down to a Quaker's farm near Maldon ; I was a stranger, and I introduced myself ; I stopped there a week, and observed the working of it. They bad been for a year or two carrying it on, and they had made beautiful sugar to look at, but it had a strong smell of beetroot, and a very disagreeable taste; it was in all the shops as free-labour sugar, and after having sold a very limited quantity, he put it into my hands to dispose of to the refiners, and I sold the whole parcel eventually to & Co., and on the faith of what I told them, they bought it, and were very well satisfied. 7749. The beetroot sugar lias undergone a great change since then ; can you give any idea of the relative cost of beetroot sugar and cane sugar ?— From what I have heard I consider that beetroot sugar could be made in Great Britain at a less cost than sugar in Jamaica. 7750. Have you any means of knowing what beetroot sugar is really manufactured lor on the Continent?—No; I can only give this statement as to a period of a few years back. 7751. You yourself have not manufactured beetroot sugar by this new process of converting the syrup into refined sugar without going through the process of becoming muscovado sugar?—It is so trifling a variation that it is not important. By the old process it was crystallized, and at the refineries they were doing pretty much what they do now; and in Cuba they would be using clay to get the colouring matter out. In fact, the sugar of Cuba is refined in the same way as they would refine the beetroot sugar in France. 7752. But have you had any experience with regard to the manufacture of beetroot sugar by that process ?—The process is one process in substitution for two processes, which have been employed; instead of making it first into sugar, and then refining it, they make it into refined sugar by one process. 7753. Is not that a saving of labour ?—Certainly. 7754. Have you had any experience of that ?—No; I have not seen any sugar that has been so made. 7755. You cannot then tell the Committee what beetroot sugar can be made for in Europe at the present time ?—I can give an idea from knowing what beetroot would cost in England ; the yieldings of beetroot are very various, from the different descriptions of seed, soil, &c. 7756. Is not it the white beet that is used chiefly ?—There is white and orange. 7757. The red is not used ?—That is not suitable ; and the smaller roots are 0.32. H H 3 preferred

635 H. Crosley, Esq. 8 March 1843.

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preferred to the larger ones; a root ought not to exceed five, or six, or seven pounds. 7758. Mr. Miles.] Is there any mode by which you think the duties can 8 March 1848. be obtained more satisfactorily, according to the wording of the Act?—I think the wording of the Act, where it says "saccharine matter," must have meant to apply to a difference of quality as great as the difference of quality between clayed sugars and other sugars. There is only one way, which I suggested to the Government at the time when thev talked of a differential duty; to take the average. Supposing 50 hogsheads imported, take the average, and submit a pound or a half-pound to the test, and let that govern the whole. 7759. Can you arrive at a true test by the use of the saccharometer?—No, not that which would indicate the quantity of crystallizable matter in the solution of the sugar. I consider that the saccharometer we have now in use is to ascertain the specific gravity. By the saccharometer and Desrone's Tables you arrive at a pretty accurate result. In taking stock of a sugar-house when working we ascertain the specific gravities of the syrups, and then we calculate what proportion of that would be convertible into sugar. 7760. What proportion of crystalline matter is there in good crystallized Demerara sugar made with the vacuum pan ?—That sugar is not so sweet as sugar made in the ordinary way. 7761. Ought it to pay the same duty?—If the differential duties were to take place on foreign sugar, it would be equally just that there should be a differential duty on British plantation sugar. There was a period when white sugar came in at the same duty as the brown sugar, and I represented to the Government the injustice of that. It was after years of representation that Mr. Deacon Hume sent me with a sample from the Colonial-office to ask the chairman of the Sugar-bakers' Committee respecting it. I had three samples to produce to him, and I asked him whether he called that refined sugar or not. He knew that I had a knowledge of the trade as well as himself, and he acknowledged that it was refined sugar. From that and other circumstances, the duty was changed on that white sugar; instead of being permitted to come in at the same duty as raw sugar, they put a prohibitory duty upon it. That description of Demerara sugar has fetched, to my knowledge, the same price as the finest double loaves. It is a beautiful article on the table, but it is not so sweet, and the refiners prefer sugar made in the ordinary way in the West Indies. 7762. Would this improved process enable the planters to meet competition with slave-grown sugar?—I have never been in the colonies; but I should say that it must depend upon the prices here whether the clayed sugars from Brazil could compete with sugars from Demerara. The grocers are exhibiting it in their windows, and people do not discriminate between the brilliant crystalline sugar and that which comes from Cuba; hut with respect to the different qualities of sugar, whoever makes fine sugar in our own colonies by any particular process above the general average of muscovado, ought in justice to pay a higher rate of dutybut it is so deceptive with respect to the qualities, that I can bring sugar from which you can extract dark colouring matter, though nothing of the sort appears to exist, even in bright yellow sugar. 7763. Supposing Brazil and British plantation sugar were admitted on equal terms, what duty do you consider the Brazilian ought to pay with reference to the superior quality of his sugar?—If the calculation is founded upon the real quantity of pure saccharine produced, it would amount to 30 s. per cwt. instead of 20 s., and then it would be equal, excepting however the present supposed protecting duty of 6 s. per cwt. 7764. I lien in reality the Brazil planter competes with the West India on more than an equality, at the present duty ?—Undoubtedly the Brazilian planter is receiving a bounty on every hundredweight, as 112 lbs. of Brazilian clayed sugar represents 1 J cwt. of our own muscovado sugar; and of that I am willing to satisfy every member of this Committee. 7765- Mr. Wilson.] You refer to the best muscovado?—I am taking the average. 7766. You do not speak of Khaur?—No; it would require a greater quantity of Khaur than of muscovado. 7767. Mr. Miles.] To put the West India planter and the foreigner on an equality, there should bo a greater difference of duty ?—Yes. 7768. And

H. Crosley, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 239

637

7768. And that duty would be not a protective duty, but a fair duty with H. Crosley, Esq. reference to the quantity of saccharine matter contained in the sugars?—Yes, it would bring them to an equality ; the refiner will often prefer good clayed 8 March 1848. sugar to lumps, for this reason : the lumps may be white, but they will not yield so advantageously for him as clayed sugar, because they have undergone the action of heat four or five times before becoming lump sugar; whereas the clayed sugar has only undergone one action of heat in the making of it. 7769. Comparing Brazil and Havannah sugar with the average of East India sugar, what proportion should there be between the two to put them on an equality ?—The good sugar made in the East Indies, which is now subjected to the same process as the sugar made in the West Indies, should pay an equal duty. 7770. What difference should there be between the Khaur sugar and the West India sugar?—I have not made the comparison, because until I have ascertained the exact quantity of pure saccharine matter in the former I cannot give the result. 7771. But you think it can be ascertained to a nicety ?—Yes. 7772. Will you state how you would propose to carry it out by Act of Parliament,, so that there should be no difficulty in ascertaining the precise duty at which the sugar should come in ?—It is a very simple operation ; the officers of customs might have an office for the purpose of testing the sugar, and the parcels might be tested during business hours. 7773. How long wonld it take ?—Half an hour for each parcel; if there were an average of 50 hogsheads he would be able within an hour to give the result. There may be two parcels; one may look better to the eye than the other sugar, and the two would have to pay the same duty, if on being tested they were found to contain equal quantities of saccharine matter. 7774. What is the nature of the test?—It is nothing more than passing the atmosphere through the sugar, with the addition of a little pure water; the water precolates through it, and carrying with it the outer part of the crystal, that is, the colouring matter; the extract so obtained is a solution of the inferior part of the sugar, the solid or white part remaining in the pan ; the weight of pure sugar, supposing it were 1 lb. that you took, then the calculation would be, if 1 lb. of muscovado yielded such a weight of pure sugar, what would 112 lbs. yield ? 7775. Would ordinary custom-house officers he able to do that, or would it require scientific persons?—I have worked 10,000 tons by that process, and common excise officers could, under instruction, do it; of course, taking for granted that they have always the sugars distinct, that they do not mix them ; but ordinary workmen might attend to 10 or 20 testings at'the same time. 7776. You do not think it would be expensive for the Government?—No; it is a simple apparatus. I have worked 30 hogsheads in one day by such process. 7777. Would it be sufficient to state in the Act of Parliament that the duty on a hundredweight of saccharine matter shall be so much, leaving it entirely to the customs to carry it out, without regard to the country from which the sugar came ?—That which would remain would be a solution of the coloured matter discharged from the raw sugar. The duty would be charged on the raw sugar; the business would be to ascertain the quality. But with reference to refiners, if it be refined in bond the revenue could never be lessened by drawbacks on exportation. 7778. If they were to refine in bond, unless the duties were all equalized, the refiner must work entirely with foreign sugar or colonial sugar for home consumption ?—Of course it would be requisite to divide it. They do not permit the two refinements to go on now together; they are in separate houses. 7779. Would not that prevent the refiner for home consumption having a choice of sugar ?—There is a sufficient choice now. There may be a smaller quantity from the state the West Indies are in; but formerly there was an excess, and the excess was exported as refined and bastard sugars. Whether they would be led to supply the country entirely now, I cannot say. 7780. Mr. M. Gibson.] The same reason that would render "it necessary to have a differential duty as between foreign sugar and West India sugar, would also render it necessary to have a differential duty as between East and West 0.32. H H 4 India

240 11. Crosley, Esq. 8 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

India sugar, inasmuch as there is a greater quantity of saccharine in West India than in East India sugar; and that is the ground taken why there should be a differential duty in favour of West India sugar as compared with foreign sugar?— I do not consider that that applies now; some 20 years ago it would have applied to the East India sugar; but they have improved : they have gone to great expense in machinery and apparatus for the improvement of the quality of sugar, which they have improved very greatly. I do not think that any difference should take place with reference to the quality of East and West India sugar. I have seen sugars from the East Indies which I could not distinguish from West India sugar. 7781. Do you consider that it would be for the advantage of the agricultural interest if the manufacture of beetroot were allowed here?—It is a question, the answer to which requires a great deal of explanation. I should say the best country belonging to Great Britain for the growth of the beetroot would be Ireland, and perhaps Scotland; in both countries it has been attempted, and also in England ; it depends upon the weight of the beetroot that can be grown upon an acre of land. 7782. Do we grow at present any quantity in Suffolk or Norfolk ?—No. 7783. We grow in parts of England a great deal of mangel wurzel or beetroot?—But there are live or six species of beetroot; mangel wurzel is one, which is used for feeding cattle. 7784. Do we at present grow the sort that is adapted for the manufacture of sugar?—No, we never do; it would not be cultivated except for the manufacture of sugar; 20 to 25 tons an acre of sugar beet is as much as you have to expect, and of mangel wurzel from 40 to 50 tons they will get. 7785. The same quality of land that grows the present mangel wurzel that is in use, would not be good enough to grow this beetroot which is adapted for making sugar?—Quite the reverse; any land which will grow potatoes will grow beetroot suitable for sugar; and it does not impoverish the land in the same way as mangel wurzel does, consequently inferior soil will grow sugar beet; you could not go on with a continuance of crops with mangel wurzel, but you might with sugar beet, and excess of manure will not do for sugar beet. 778b. Then sugar beet would be equally beneficial to the land as common mangel wurzel?—It would be more beneficial; I have been in communication with farmers, and they say that mangel wurzel is a heavy crop, and that for five or six years the land is impoverished ; but with respect to sugar beet, it may be taken in succession every other year with other crops by properly manuring. 7787. How would you protect the growers of sugar in the West Indies in case this beetroot should come in?—There is the same duty charged now on both. 7788. But you say beetroot sugar can be made cheaper than cane sugar?— It costs less to make raw sugar from beetroot in this country than it now costs to make sugar in the West Indies. 7789. If this manufacture were commenced would you keep a higher duty on beetroot sugar than you had upon cane sugar ?—They have always a drawback with respect to distillation ; they are not permitted to distil from their molasses or skimmings as the West Indian is. The beetroot manufacturers can only make it under the particular restrictions of the Excise; they must conform to certain vessels and to certain periods; the West Indian sugar manufacturer has no such restriction, and he can work up all his refuse, but the beetroot manufacturer cannot. 7790. Molasses from beetroot sells for very little?—Very little, of that which is made in the ordinary way; it was difficult to sell the molasses at 6s. or 7s. a cwt., while molasses from the sugar-houses would sell at 23 s. or 245.; the molasses from beetroot is very inferior. 7791. How does the greater cheapness arise when there is such a great loss in the sale of the molasses ?— Molasses does not form any considerable part. I he question is, Who is to establish these beetroot sugar factories; refiners cannot, and farmers cannot; it would be from 10 to 15 years before any considerable quantity was made, therefore now no person would feel ready to go into the trade.

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639

Jovis, 9° die Martii, 1848.

MEBBERS PRESENT.

Lord George Bentinck. Sir Edward Buxton. Mr. Milner Gibson. Mr. Goulburn. Mr. Hope. LORD

GEORGE BENTINCK,

Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr.

Matheson. Miles. Moffatt. Villiers.

THE

CHAIR.

John Toll em ache, Esq. a Member of The House; Examined. 7792. Chairman.] YOU are a considerable proprietor in Antigua ?—Yes, I J. Tullemache, Esq. M. P. have five estates there. 7793. They are very fine estates, are they not?—I believe they are not so 1S48. extensive as Sir William Codrington's ; but with the exception of two or three, 9 March they are as extensive as any in the island. 7794. As far as position and fertility are concerned, they are as well situated and as fertile as almost any?—Two of them are very well situated; the other three, I should say, are not so favourably situated as many others. In point of quality of land, they are as good as other estates in the island. 7795. The sugar produced is of a superior quality?—Yes; I have reason to believe, from the prices which it has realized, that it is equal to any manufactured there. 7796. You have a statement, have you not, of the produce of your estates from the year 1837 down to the present time?—I have; I have taken 10 years, which I thought was a fair way of taking an average. I have requested my merchants to make out a statement, which will show the average of 10 years; from 1837 to 1846 my estates averaged about 520 hogsheads of sugar. 7797. How many cwts. are there to one hogshead?—About 14 cwt.; they produced upon the average about 60s. a cwt., including the duty. 7798. Can you state the amount, of rum?—No, I cannot, give the rum in this statement; I thought'the great object of the Committee was to arrive at the cost of production. The way in which we calculate the cost of production in Antigua is this: we put down all the expenses of the island, and deduct from those expenses what the ruin and molasses sell for; that is the way we arrive at it; therefore in this statement the quantity is not mentioned ; but the sum which it sold for is deducted from the total expenses of the island. 7799. You have credited yourself already with the rum?—Yes. 7800. Will you state what the average net profit of the estates has been ;— Yes ; the average net profit for those 10 years was 3,973 l., and the cost of production, 19 s. 7 d. per cwt. I should inform the Committee that I think this, upon the whole, is a fair average. Some gentlemen consider I have gone hack too far, as those 10 years include years in which sugar sold for a very high price, and therefore lessened very much the cost of production ; but on the other hand, the statement also includes the expenses occasioned by the earthquake; theretore, putting these two things together, I have reason to believe, and it is the opinion of my merchants, who are very experienced men, that this is a fair average to take, 7801. You have no reason to suppose that there will never be another earthquake?—No; but an earthquake of this severe description was,—I believe, unknown in Antigua previously. 7802. Mr. Villiers.) In what year was that?—-In 1843. 7803. Chairman.'] Having told the Committee that the average profit was 3,973? , and that the production was 520 hogsheads in those 10 years, can you 0. 32. I I " tell

242

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

J. Tollemache, Esq. tell them what the production of this year has been, and what the net profit has M. p.

9 March 1848.

been?—I have gone into the matter with my merchants, and I have reason to think that I shall net this year about 1,350 l.; but I must tell the Committee that this has been a large crop; my sugars have been of a very superior description (they have realized upon the average 43 s.) ; and again, on the other hand, the cost of production includes some extraordinary expenses. 7804. Is that to the amount of about 800/.?—Yes; supposing I had not expended that money, I should have realized about 2,000/. under the favourably circumstances I have mentioned, namely, the largeness of the crop, and the high price for which my sugars sold as compared with the prices obtained by others. 7805. This 800/. being expended in permanent improvements, contributed in some degree to the production of the crop of last year, and to the high condition of the sugars, did it not?—I do not think it had anything to do with the superior quality of the sugar, because it was not in the boiling-houses that I made this outlay ; it was in erecting pens, increasing the number of my working cattle, and in purchasing implements. 7806. Your working cattle must have contributed to assist you in getting off your crop quickly, and in carrying it down to the port of export ?—Yes, I think very likely they might have contributed a little to the largeness of the production, but not to improving the quality of the sugars. 7807. They added to the largeness of the production, and to the expedition with which you were able to export it?—Yes. 7808. In consequence of getting it in good time for the market, it seems that you realized upon the average 29 s. a cut., which is 4 s. above the average price: —Yes. I do not know what the average price was last year; the sum I realized was 43 5. I think Sir William Codrington, the proprietor of the adjoining estates, realized but 40 s.; I believe my sugars realizing 43 s. was owing to the managers having manufactured a superior quality of sugar. Sir William Codrington's sugars reached this market as early as mine, if not rather earlier. 7809. Your crop, you said, was considerably larger this year than the average? —Yes, the average is about 520 hogsheads ; this year it is 642 hogsheads. 7810. If you got 4 s. above the average price of the sugar, by getting it in good time to the market, that would represent 1,350 l.?—Yes. 7811. Therefore if the 1,350/., the price of your sugar above the average, were deducted from your profits, your profits would be nil ?—Yes, including the outlay I mentioned, they would have been nothing. I should also state that my estates are favourably circumstanced; for they owe nothing to the merchants, and are free from debt in the island, which of course ought to assist in lessening expenses, and, consequently, the cost of production. 7812. You have been yourself to the island, and I believe have made very considerable reductions in various departments?—I have. I do not wish to trespass upon the time of the Committee, but if the Committee wish to have those details I will give them. I would state that the firm of Messrs. Manning & Anderton have been the merchants of this estate for about 50 years; the present men are most high-minded honourable men, and I am sure they have my interest at heart. Previous to 1846 they were of opinion that my estates were very well and economically conducted. I suppose they judged that that was the case, not only from the statements they received from the island, but also by comparing my accounts with others; in fact, I may say they often congratulated me upon my estates being under such good management. The accounts I received from the island led me to the same conclusion. I constantly urged the attornies (when I saw the direction that free-trade opinions were taking in the country) to economize, and I had letters from them, informing me that they had carried economy to the utmost extent consistently with my interests. In 1846, however, I went out to the West Indies, and I acknowledge, when I arrived there, I came to a very different conclusion. 7813. How much were you enabled to reduce your expenditure?—I may state, that without much difficulty I reduced my expenses 900/. or 1,000/. a year. 7814. You did that without difficulty, you say?—Yes. 7815. In what way did you make those reductions?—Chiefly by doing away with perquisites. I increased the salaries of the really acting men ; I swept away all perquisites, and I also cut down what I viewed to be extravagant charges.

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charges. I have reason to think that, with the exception of one individual gen- J. Tollemache, Esq. M. P. tleman, all were satisfied with what I did ; I had no complaints on leaving the island, nor have I received any since. 9 March 1848. 7816. Are you of opinion that it would be possible to cut down the expenses to any greater extent?—Yes. Since then the price of labour has fallen considerably ; I believe it has fallen nominally to 6 d. a day. 7817. What was the expense of labour in the year 1847 ?—The common field labourers had about 10 d. a day. 7818. Mr. Villiers.] When you were out there?—Yes. With regard to the reduction which has taken place in the price of labour, I should say that I do not consider that it has been accomplished in a satisfactory manner ; I do not think it has taken place naturally. This reduction of wages has been accomplished by a combination of the attornies; a certain number have combined together to give that only which they believed the estates could afford. No doubt it was necessary for them to adopt some mode of cutting down the expenses, but though they were quite right in attempting it, it was not, in my opinion, the most satisfactory manner of accomplishing a reduction, for it is not likely to be lasting. If wages had come down in consequence of the supply of labour being fully equal to the demand, they would have come down naturally; but that I am satisfied is not the case. There is still a great demand for labour, but there is a combination among the planters not to give more than 6 a., and wages have fallen in consequence. The reason I am inclined to believe that it will not be lasting is, that the agreement upon which that combination rests may be very easily evaded. It is very difficult to say what the real price of labour is in Antigua. 7819. Chairman.J When did that reduction take place, and how long has it been in force ?— It has been in force now about a month; it is, I repeat, very difficult to say what the price of labour really is in Antigua. It is the custom there to give the labourers allowances, and though one manager may appear to pay the same wages as another, still he may give more allowances in the way of molasses, &c. 7820. You said you did not think that this arrangement will be lasting?— No, because it can be so easily evaded by granting allowances. 7821. Evaded by the master, not by the labourer. You are not of opinion the labourer will rebel against this reduction, but you think the masters will from want of good faith among one another, and with a view to get more labourers than their neighbours, offer better wages to get more labourers?—The labourers are well aware that there is a great demand for their services ; in crop time there is a sort of scramble for labourers ; so when crop time comes on, and there is a great demand for labour, a great temptation will be held out to the managers to give their men those perquisites in order to induce them to work for them. 7822. Have you intelligence from the island to the first week in February?— Yes. 7823. Do you apprehend that there has been a considerable strike of labourers at those wages ?—I know the labourers have expressed dissatisfaction, and on an estate adjoining mine they refused to cut the canes; but owing to the firmness of the attorney that difficulty has been got over, and they have come to their work. 7824. Reducing the wages from 10 d. to 6 d. a day, reduced the cost of production nearly one-half; but if, on the other hand, the labourers will not work, and the crop is not got at all, the loss may possibly be greater on the one side than the gain on the other?—I do not believe myself that the present reduction can be reckoned on ; that is my firm belief. The cost of production can be very much reduced in Antigua by economizing labour, and I think that is the only effectual way of doing so. 7825. You do not believe that the wages can be permanently beaten down to 6 d. a day?—Not in the way in which it has been done, at least I fear not; I should be very sorry to see them lower than that. 7826. Is not it a very effectual way of getting the wages down if the planters all unite and combine to reduce them ?—We know very well that combinations, except among the London bakers, are very seldom lasting in this country, and I do not imagine they will be in Antigua. 7827. Mr. Villiers.] The masters do not keep faith with each other, you 0.32. I I 2 think?—

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J. Tollemache, Esq. think?—I am not speaking of those gentlemen who have entered into the comM.F.

9 March 1848.

bination ; they are the leading attornies of the island, and I have no doubt they will keep faith; that combination, however, is not joined in by all the attornies, but only by some of the principal ones. I saw the list of the attornies who had entered into this agreement, and in the list several names of gentlemen whom I knew to be attornies in Antigua were omitted. 7828. Chairman.] In this country, generally speaking, the combination is among labourers in the shape of a strike lor wages, and ordinarily the capitalists beat the labourers; will not that be the same case in Antigua; the planters are the capitalists; will not they be able to defeat the labourers if they are true one to another?—I think not; you can stop a cotton factory, but you cannot stop the operations on a sugar estate in crop time; you lose the whole crop if you do. 7829. Practically, then, the case of a West India sugar plantation is precisely the reverse of a factory in this country; there the labourers have all the power instead of the capitalists?—Yes, in crop time. 7830. That is, the labourer can injure the planter much more than the planter can injure the labourer?—In crop time that is the case. 7831. So that so long as the supply of labour remains what it is, tire planters, however true they are to one another, cannot maintain that combination?—I believe that the cost of labour will be reduced in Antigua; but I do not believe that the great reduction they have effected can be reckoned on. The gentlemen who have entered into that combination will be true to each other, but they have the managers to deal with. The really acting man, who pays the labourers, and who in point of fact gives the allowances, is the manager himself. 7832. And not the attorney ?—And not the attorney; and I very much question whether those attornies will be able to make all the managers keep faith; I do not believe they will. I have often spoken on this subject to attornies; and they have pointed out to me the very great difficulty they would have to contend with. 7833. You said that you could economize labour, as distinguished from the wages of labour; will you tell the Committee in what way, and to what extent, you think it would he possible further to economize labour upon your estate?— I think unless a person has some experience in the management and cultivation of land in some of the best cultivated districts in this country, he cannot really see the extent to which labour is wasted in Antigua, or how much saving would be effected by its being economized. 7834. What is the economy you speak of?—When I speak of economizing labour, I do not simply mean to dismiss the hands, but to take care that every man is employed profitably. 7835. How are they unprofitably employed now, and in what way could they, in your opinion, be more profitably employed?—It is from what I saw there I have Firmed my opinion. I dare say many gentlemen who go out to Antigua may differ with me on this point; but at the same time, as I said before, unless they had seen something of the management of land in this country, I do not think they would detect the waste of labour which a person would do who had that experience; for instance, I have seen gangs of labourers loading dung-carts with their hands. 7836. Mr. Miles.] Would they not use forks ?—Forks may have been supplied (I have since supplied my estates with them); it struck me that no attempt whatever was made to teach them to handle torks. 7837. You never heard that there were any forks?—I do not recollect seeing a dung-fork in the island ; I saw many carts loading, and I could not help being struck with the unnecessary number of hands employed. 7838'. Chairman.'] Perhaps half the labour might be saved in that case by the use of a fork?—More work might be done with fewer labourers. 7839. Are there any other points in which you have observed that there is a want of economy in the labour?—Great allowances should be made for the people in the island, owing to the recent transition from slavery to freedom. I frequently observed gangs of labourers using the hoc in fields which might be perfectly well ploughed ; I call that waste of labour. 7840. Is that the case upon your own estate ?—I have seen the same practice upon my own estates as well as on others. 7841. To what extent can labour upon your estate, upon which you have been able to effect already an economy of 900 l., be further economized ?—You will generally

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generally find that the expense of labour is about two-thirds of the sum expended J. Tollemache, Esq. M.P. in the island, and that two-thirds might now be reduced, by economy and redaction in wages, one-third. 7842. What is the gross expenditure upon your estates for the last year ?— 9 March 1848. My cost of production for the last year was about 19 s. per cwt. and gross expenditure, in the island, about 10,000 l. 7843. That is, 19 s. upon a very large crop?—Yes. 7844. The crop was large, on account of the favourable season, in a great measure?—Owing to its being an extraordinarily good season. 7845. If it had been a bad crop the 19.?. would have been a much higher sum?—It would. 7846. To arrive at the further extent to which economy can be carried out upon your estate it is necessary that you should tell the Committee what the gross amount of outlay upon your estate was in 1847, and in what points you cm further reduce it?—My cost of production with this large crop, and under the circumstances I nave mentioned, was last year 19 s. per cwt.; without the extras I have mentioned, it would have been about 17 s. 8 d. per cwt. 7847. The extras were about 800 l.?—Yes. Had the crop of 1847 been an average one of 520 hogsheads, without any extra expenses, and the wages really at 6 d. a day, to which it is said they are now reduced, the cost of production would have been about 15 s. per cwt. and the total expenses 5,500 l. 7848. What were the expenses?—They were last year about 10,000/.; but supposing the crop had been 520 hogsheads, an average crop, they would have been about 9,500/.; deducting from that the sum of 800/. extras, it would leave 8,700/.; the rum and molasses, 1,200/., upon 520 hogsheads, plus the reduction in labour, about 2,000/., would he equal to 3,200/.; take that 3,200/. from 8,700/., it leaves 5,500/. as the total expenses of production, which is at the rate of about 15s. 01/4 d. per hogshead. As I said before, I do not think that the reduction ot wages to 6 d. can be reckoned upon ; but then again, on the other hand, I believe wages will he reduced to a considerable extent, and labour will now be economized on my estates so as to reduce the expenses in that proportion ; that is, to reduce the cost of labour altogether about one-third. 7849. Is not this reduction calculated upon the wages being reduced from 11 (I. to fir/.? — My own impression is, after giving the matter the best consideration in my power, that it will be possible to reduce the cost of labour in Antigua immediately one-third. I do not think (hat the rate of 6 d. can be maintained ; but, on the other hand, I know that labour may be economized, and by economizing labour, and by reducing wages, I do believe that a reduction in the cost of labour to the extent of 2,000/. a year may take place upon my estates, which would bring the cost of production to 15 s. a cwt. 7850. What are your expenses of freight and charges, and so forth, from Antigua to England ?—The freight is 4 s., other charges 3s.; making 7 s. altogether, per cwt. 7851. So that when you have effected, if you should succeed in effecting those reductions, you will be able to lay down sugar at 22s. O 1/4 d. cost in London ?—Yes. 7852. That leaves you no profit?—I am speaking of the simple cost. 7853. No interest lor capital?—No; I am only speaking of what it is now possible to produce sugar at. 7854. Can you say what, 15 years ago, would have been the fee simple value •of that estate ?—I have no idea ; I could state the results for several years past; 1837 was the worst crop almost ever known in Antigua. 7855. Was that during apprenticeship?—We had no apprenticeship in Antigua; we went immediately from slavery to freedom, and I believe it answered uncommonly well. The missionaries had been of very great service to the people there, and they were in a superior state to what they were in the other islands; therefore we ventured on giving them freedom at once, which succeeded. In 1837 there was a loss of 250 l. upon the estate; in 1838, there was a profit of 7,245 l. ; in 1839, of 9,631 l.; in 1840, of 12,843 in 1841, of 3,145 l.; 1842, of 2,038 l.; 1843, of 929 l.; 1844, of 3,757 l.; 1845, of 668 l.; and in 1846, a loss of 269 l. 7856. How came 1841 to be so low a year as respects profit?—It was rather above the average in produce, but the price of sugar was lower than during the two previous years. 0.32. • 113 7857. What

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7857. What was the crop?—555 hogsheads; it must have been owing in a great measure to the fall in the price of sugar, and also the cost of production was greater; the price of labour increased most rapidly from 1837. 9 March 1848. 7858. How do you account for that ?—I believe immediately after the emancipation the sum fixed upon as the price of labour was very much lower than it was afterwards ; and that price was increased by the demand for labour. 7859. Was that by some general agreement with the labourers ?—I suppose it was; contract labour has existed very much in Antigua, though I doubt very much whether it answers. 7860. Do you practise that system?—Yes, all do; contract labourers have house rent-free, they are found medical attendance, and given other advantages, for which, with their wages, they are expected to work on the estates. 7861. Do they work willingly?—No, they do not; and I must say it is in a great measure owing to mismanagement. I am inclined to think that if English labourers were managed in the same way, they would be equally disinclined to work. 7862. How do you think they are mismanaged ?—I wish particularly to state that I think every allowance should be made for gentlemen out there, from inexperience in dealing with free labour. I do not think the people have much inducement to work; their house is free; their doctor's bills are paid ; their pigs I suspect feed a great deal in the cane-fields; indeed I recollect a gentleman in Antigua mentioned to me that it was most amusing, in taking a very early ride in the morning, to see the pigs running out of the cane-fields. The plan adopted there to prevent this is, that if a pig be caught in a cane-field they cut its head oft', but the owner has the carcase, and in point of fact it is the fat pigs that are captured generally, therefore the owner sustains no great loss. They grow yams and vegetables near their houses, and I think it is very possible they may help themselves to yams which are not their own. Several managers told me that they had no doubt that the labourers did take yams. 7963. Have not they provision grounds?—Yes, they have. 7964. Do not they grow their own yams ?—Some of them would do so. I do not mean to say that they all steal yams; I am only endeavouring to account for the people not being inclined to work. Another thing I was struck with was this: in Cheshire the farmers keep a very sharp look out upon the cows when they are in their cowhouses, to prevent their being milked by the labourers. When I was in Antigua I saw large herds of cows merely looked after by the black labourers. I expressed my suspicion that those cows were milked by the labourers, to several gentlemen in Antigua, and they all appeared to agree with me. If the labourers have no house-rent to pay, if they have no doctor to pay, if their pigs are kept for them, if they have cows close at hand, which they milk, and as in that climate they do not require much money to clothe themselves, they are not obliged by their wants to work much for wages, a very small sum will be sufficient for them. There is a great demand for labour. The masters are all endeavouring to get as many labourers as possible, therefore they have not that control over labour which is the case in this country. If a farmer here saw a labourer's pigs running constantly into his corn field, he would dismiss the labourer, therefore the labourer takes care of his pigs, for fear of being dismissed ; but if a man be dismissed in Antigua he will immediately find employment elsewhere. 7865. It would appear, therefore, that the planter is helpless, as he is not in a condition to impose a house rent, to abolish doctors' hills, or to be hard upon the labourers who let their pigs feed in the cane-fields, or even to prevent the labourers milking his cows, because if he interpose in his own defence the labourers will strike work. Do you think it would be practicable for the planter to put an end to all those abuses, or is not he in the same helpless condition as respects those abuses as you have already described the planters to be in as regards the combination to keep down wages?—It, of course, increases their difficulty in keeping down wages; I do not think that that reduction can be reckoned on; the true way, in my opinion, to correct these abuses, and keep down permanently the rate of wages, is to economize labour, so that the supply may fully equal the demand. 7866. Do you think those evils can be corrected ?—I think they may be corrected. The present system of management encourages these abuses. 7867. Do your labourers still live rent-free ?—They do. I commenced my improvements

J. Tollemache, Esq. M. P.

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improvements by altering the system among the superiors; I am now dealing J. Tollemache, Esq. M. p. with the labourers ; of course I could not do all at once. By the reductions which I have effected, I think I shall save about goo I. or 1,000/. a year. 9 March 1848. 7868. To what extent has your success gone with labourers?—I do not think I have tried it sufficiently long to give an opinion. I believe the only way of bringing the labourers under control is to get an additional number of labourers, or to economize labour. I should be sorry to see Africans introduced into Antigua till we know more of them. I believe the people are well-disposed at present, and I think it might injure their social condition to introduce among them people from Africa; I have heard the Madeira men well spoken of. 7869. Would you introduce Hill Coolies into Antigua?—No; I hear we are likely to have an additional number of labourers from Madeira. 7870. Is that the only place from which you would introduce them ?—In Jamaica the evil is so great that you must have labourers from where you can get them ; but in Antigua, even with our present population, we might produce much more than we do at present, and at less cost; consequently no labourers but those known to be well disposed need be admitted. 7871. As far as your own estate is concerned, do you conceive much more is to be done by ploughs and implements than you have already done?—I have sent out all the implements that they can possibly want. 7872. Is there anything that can be done in the way of machinery?—I had intended sending out machinery there, superior stills, &c.; but from what has taken place, I mean from the immense supply likelv to come from Cuba, I have relinquished that intention. 7873. Your estate is, in your opinion, an exception to the general rule; that is to say, it is an estate more favourably situated and of more fertile soil ?—I do not think it is more fertile than other estates in Antigua, but my estates are free from debt. 7874. Your estates are well placed ?—Two of the estates are very well situated, but the other three are not so. 7875. Producing sugar of a higher description than the average ?—This year they have been doing so, certainly. 7876. Yet you have not thought it prudent, with all the reductions and economy you have in view, to send out the machinery and the mills which you otherwise would have done ?—Certainly not. 7877. You have shown to the Committee, that if you were entirely successful in all those reductions you have spoken of, you might bring sugar to this market at a cost of 22s. 0 Id. ?—The cost of production, I think, may be reduced to 15 s.; I do not believe that the managers, let them do their duty as they may, can reduce it lower now than that; and I know they can produce it at much less in Cuba. 7878. Do you think at the present price, which is 25s. a cwt., it would be worth the risk of continuing to spend a capital of nearly 10,000/. a year for the chance of getting hack 3 s. a cwt. upon sugar?—No, I do not. 7879. You would hardly, therefore, at the present prices, think it worth while to continue cultivation ?—If sugar fall, as I think it will, certainly not. 7880. It is now 25 s.?—That would give me 1,500 l. a year, supposing I effected the reduction. I have no doubt many gentlemen in Antigua will differ with me, and think that I cannot make a reduction to the extent which I anticipate, but I am confident about it. 7881. That would leave you no margin for earthquakes, or hurricanes, or droughts?—No; but I should be very sorry to desert the people and to see the estates thrown out of cultivation; therefore, provided sugar keeps at its present price, I feel it my duty to go on cultivating the estates. 7882. More as a matter of duty than as a matter of profit ?—Yes; I do not believe that with moderate protection I shall have more than a small income from the estate, and of course I am liable to disasters from earthquakes and hurricanes. 7883. No person with any charge or debt upon his estate could carry on an Antigua estate, with all the economy and improvements that you suggest, at the present prices, could he ?—It is possible; for if an additional number of labourers were imported, and good management adopted, the cost of production might ultimately be reduced below 15 s. 7884. That is assuming that those labourers arc to be brought at the cost of 0.32. the I I 4

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J. Tollemache, Esq. the Government, not that they are to be brought at the cost, of the planter?— M. P.

g March 1848.

A couple ot thousand labourers introduced into Antigua would be quite sufficient, and if labour were more economized, with that addition the island would produce a great deal more, and the cost of production would be certainly less than 15s.; but at present we have only our own labourers, and of course it takes a certain time to teach people how labour may be economized. I am endeavouring to effect it now upon my estates. 7885. At a reasonable estimate, how many years do you think it would require to teach the planters in general to practise economy to the extent you think would he requisite in order to reduce the cost of raising sugar to 15s. a cwt.?—I expect in this next year to reduce it on my estates to 15 s. a cwt., supposing the crop to he an average one. I am told it will not be an average one, but if it were so, and at the prices which were realized last year, the cost of my production would be about 15 s. 01/4 d. The Committee are aware that the cost of production depends very much upon the price for which the molasses and the rum sell. In a certain number of years, with an additional supply of labourers, the cost of production may lie got down below 15s. ; I am satislied about it; but it cannot be done immediately. 7886. If your crop falls off 100 tons, then even with all this reduction you would not get one ."hilling ?—No ; hut on the other hand, of course if the crop exceeded the average, I should get more than I should gel even if it were only an average crop ; one must he set against the other. 7887. You have not given to the Committee a statement of the cost of labour on your estates in each year?—I stated lot/, and 11 d. as the price of labour; I think that the wages of the common labourers were about 10 c/. a day ; of course other labourers have higher wages. 7888. Will you tell the Committee upon what items you economized that goo/, or 1,000/. of which you spoke?—I did away with the perquisites. 7889. W hat perquisites?—Giving corn and allowances for servants, and various matters of that kind. 7890. What was the amount of t! ose perquisites?—I do not believe that the merchants in this country, intelligent as they are, unless they go out themselves, know much of what is going on in the West Indies. My own merchants told me that they believed my estates were economically conducted. When I went out, however, I found they were not so. The attornies are the head agents of the estate ; the merchants simply see the plantation accounts. In the plantation accounts there is always one very large item, namely, labourers' wages, and I will tell the Committee some of the charges which I found were included in that item. There is an estate groom, for instance ; then there is attorney's cook and attorney's groom, attorney's servant, attorney's washer, attorney's maid, minding attorney's pigs, minding manager's pigs, picking grass for attorney; besides which there are manager's servants and overseer's servants. As far as I and the merchant could see, all those came under the head of labourers' wages. Those charges were in the pay list of the Delapse Estate. I had two attornies; one was over two estates and the other over three. 7891. All those charges you have already put down? — Yes, I have put down those charges, I think it is lair that I should say, that the charges in the pay list on two of the estates under Dr. Daniell, who I am sure is a very worthy and honourable man, were not of so objectionable a character, but still to some of Ins charges I objected. In the plantation accounts, the great item, which in fact constitutes two-thirds of the whole amount, is labourers' wages, and what comes under that item no one knows, unless they themselves go out and inspect the pay lists. 7892. Can you state in money the amount of those charges which you reduced ?—In carrying out my alterations I removed one of my attornies, and I placed one attorney over the whole. The two attornies received together 450/. a year with perquisites. I removed one gentleman, and I appointed Dr. Daniell, and gave him 370/. a year. 7893. And no perquisites ?—And no perquisites at all. 7894. So that you saved your perquisites, and 100/. a year?—Yes. 7895. What should you reckon the perquisites at?—The sum I cut down in the pay-hook was 1,290 l. a year currency, that is about 600 l. a year sterling, without touching any of the labourers' wages. 7896. That, with 100 l. a year, makes 700/. a year?—Yes; I did away with perquisites;

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perquisites; I increased the salaries of the really acting men, namely, the J. Tollemache, Esq. M. P. managers and the overseers, and I reduced the amount paid to the attorneys to the extent I have mentioned. The sum I before paid in salaries was 1,179 l. 9 March 1848. a year sterling, besides perquisites, which perquisites amounted to 600 I. sterling a year. After my reductions my salaries amounted to 1,165 l. a year, without perquisites; and I reduced also the doctors' salaries ; I thought they were paid extravagantly. 7897. What did you reduce the doctors?—I reduced them, I think, upwards of 100 l. currency a year. 7898. How many doctors were there ?—Two. 7899. What had they before?—They had 296 l. currency a year before. Then the managers and overseers had allowances in corn; I believe I cut down in corn allowances to the amount of about 240 l. currency a year, and in the plantation accounts about 154 I. currency a year ; I also did away with job carts. On the whole I cut down upwards of 900 /. sterling a year. That does not include any reduction which might be accomplished by economising labour. 7900. That is the last resource you have in the way of reduction?—Yes; I think the superiors are now sufficiently remunerated for their services, but I should not wish to pay them less than they at present receive. 7901. You are under no apprehension that the present forcible reduction of wages in Antigua will end in the same disastrous results which we have lately heard have taken place in Demerara ?—I think not. 7902. Do you think the population of Antigua more docile and tractable than that of Demerara?—I think the people are very well disposed in Antigua; they are not inclined to work, but for that I think I have given sufficient reasons; I have heard gentlemen say that it is necessary in crop time to go and coax the men out, the very men whom they were supplying with medical attendance and houses. I said that there was a considerable degree of mismanagement upon my estates; I do not say wilful, but the whole system was bad, and needed reformation; the cattle I found kept in open pens in the fields; in hot climates cattle suffer much by being exposed to the variations of weather, particularly to the heavy rains which fall. At the estate called Glanvills, and on two of the other estates, I found the mules half starved, and yet a very considerable sum of money appeared for the purchase of corn in the plantation accounts, but that corn must have gone as allowances to the managers; the managers considered it was one of their perquisites. I do not blame them for taking it, because no doubt they were hired upon the understanding that they should have corn. To give the Committee some idea of the mismanagement of my stock, I may state that, though from the year 1838 to 1845 I expended in the purchase of stock upwards of 5,000/. sterling, and had besides 70 breeding cows, the estates in the latter year were in a worse condition as regards stock than they were in the former. 7903. Are not you generally supplied with stock from Porto Rico and the Spanish Main ?—No ; I have altered my whole system with regard to the management of the stock. I attribute the loss, in a great measure, to their being exposed to the weather, and not properly kept. I believe, if you have a vast quantity of ineffective stock as well as effective stock, in periods of drought, the effective stock suffer for want of the provender consumed by the ineffective. The total number of stock, effective and non-effective, was 449; by getting rid of the non-effective I have reduced that number to 256. 7904. That 800 /. that you spoke of, was laid out, was not it, for the benefit of the stock ?—Yes; it was laid out in the purchase of effective stock and implements. 7905. Do not you think that that sum ought fairly to come into the ordinary charges of the estate?—No. I should also say that I was very much struck, in Antigua, by seeing implements, and expensive implements too, thrown on one side as useless. I am sure it is very important that implements of a very simple kind should be sent out there, and also light implements. As regards the oxen on my estate, instead of being fattened when they arrived at a certain age, and being succeeded by fresh oxen, were worked till they died. 7906. Mr. Goulburn.] Have you a pen attached to your estate?—Yes, I have commenced building pens. 7907. You had not one at those periods which you spoke of? No, I had what they call spell pens ; the Honourable Member is aware that the cattle only work half a day, and are changed at 12 o'clock, when it is customary for the cattle to 0.32. K k assemble

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J. Tollemache, Esq. assemble in a sort of open pen, where they are fed; I saw frequently in Antigua M. P.

9March

1848.

stock penned in the open field, and also in Barbadoes, when I was there. There is one reason for penning in the open field, viz. that the manure is near at hand for the fields; but I am satisfied that the loss you sustain in the stock amounts to a much greater sum than would be the cost of drawing the manure from fixed pens, where the cattle might be under shelter. 7908. The establishment of those fixed pens would entail some outlay of capital of course?—Yes. you think that at the present moment any proprietor would embark 7909. capital in such a way ?—No. If I had known what is now taking place, I do not think I should have increased the stock, or have built pens. It may be thought by the Committee that I must have known when I erected those pens, &c., of the alteration that took place in the sugar duties in 1846; that was the case, but I had reason to know that the price of labour was rising very much in Cuba; I knew that the slave trade had altogether been put a stop to, as regarded that island. Commander Matson, who was examined yesterday, mentioned one reason for that, but he omitted to name another, which was this : the Creoles in Cuba are the ruling body, and a considerable portion of them possess property in slaves only, therefore it is their interest to keep up the price of them, and they are opposed to the introduction of slaves, and that, together with the unwillingness of the merchants to import slaves at a great cost, and risk, had put a stop altogether to the importation, and therefore I had reason to think that we might even end with being able to compete with Cuba; but I know now that the opening of the English markets has made those who were in favour of introducing slaves exert themselves with such effect that slaves are now imported, and the cost of production there has been reduced to a sum with which it would be impossible even for an island like Antigua to compete. 7910. In Antigua you say the rate of wages was from 6(1. to 10 d. a day?— Yes; they have fallen nominally to 6 d. a day. 7911. And at that rate of wages you have made a profit during the last year? —Not at the 6d.; at the 10 d. 7912. At 10 d. you made a profit?—Yes. 7913. Do you think it would have been possible, if your wages had been from is. 6 d. to 2 s. a day, that you could have made any profit? —No ; I am only speaking of Antigua. I am satisfied Antigua might go on with a much smaller protection than Jamaica or Demerara. 7914. You have not been personally in Jamaica?—No, I have not. 7915. In Antigua you appear to have reduced to a very considerable extent the expense of management of your estate?—I have cut down the expenses to the amount I have stated. 7916. The parties in the island have no direct interest, have they, in the produce of the estate?—No. 7917. Have you ever tried that plan?—No. A friend of mine, Sir William Codrington, has tried it; I believe he found the same sort of charges in his pay list that I discovered in mine, when he went out two years previously. His present attorney is a highly honourable and worthy man. 7918. In the case of his manager, is his income derived from a portion of the net profits of the estate ?—No ; I think he is paid so much a hogshead, that is, the head manager or attorney. 7919. Mr. Villiers.] Have you had any opportunities of knowing what was the way in which other estates were managed in Antigua, besides Sir William Codrington's and yours ?—Not as regards perquisites ; but it struck me that there was generally a want of method and good management in the employment of labour throughout the island. 7920. You have no reason to believe that their estates were better managed than your own?—No ; at the same time I should not like to give an opinion. I did riot see their pay lists. I saw some very heavy crops upon the ground ; it is quite a mistake to suppose that the land in those islands is wearing out; I believe the land will now produce as much as it ever did. 7921. You believe the soil is not at all exhausted?—Not in the least; the crops were as heavy last year as they ever were known. I am satisfied that the land in Antigua is no more exhausted than the land in Suffolk. 7922. You have no reason to believe that this mismanagement upon your estate was of very recent date?—No. Gentlemen there confine their observations simply to their own island ; and when you consider, too, that they had the management

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management of slaves but a few years ago, you must make great allowance for J. Tollemache, Esq., St. P. them. I do not doubt but that they believed they had a perfect right to perquisites, but it is a bad system. 7923. It was no particular abuse, but it was the custom in the management of 9 March 1848. estates in Antigua?—I believe it to be the general custom in Antigua, that managers and overseers should have allowances in servants, &c. 7924. The date of your visit to your estate was in 1846, was it not?—Yes. Till 1846 I had not taken much interest in my West India property; I had reason to believe that it was very well managed, and I also knew that if abuses did exist I could not detect them without going out. 7925. It had been represented to you that your estates were as well managed as they could possibly be, and that there was very little prospect of any profit in future?—Yes; previous to 1846 my merchants were of opinion that my estates were very well and economically managed ; but before I sailed they were kind enough to give me a statement in which was explained the system of cultivation adopted in St. Kitt's, the adjoining island to Antigua, by which they believed there might be a saving in the cost of labour; but until they gave me that statement they certainly had informed me, and I knew they were of opinion, that my estates were quite as economically conducted as others under their charge. 7926. Upon your arrival, and upon your surveying your estate, you found that for many years past you might have saved 900 I. or 1,000/. a year?— Yes. 7927. Mr. Goulburn.] Did that apply to the whole of the estates ?—I do not consider even the estates under Dr. Daniell were conducted exactly as they should have been ; I cut down a great many expenses even on those, but there was much greater room for improvement on the other estates. 7928. Mr. Villiers.] Your statement to the Committee off-hand was, that you saved 900/. or 1.000/. a year by the improvements which you introduced into your property in Antigua?—Yes. 7929. During previous years you had been paying 900 /. or 1,000 /., which vou found upon investigation you were able to save?—Yes. 7930. If you had had a charge to that amount upon your estate, that charge might have been paid off by the system of economy which you introduced on the visit which you paid to it?—It would depend upon the amount, of course. 7931. You mentioned only some of the abuses you Found upon the estates; you did not mention all; you said that the attorneys were in the habit of keeping labourers for different purposes which were useless?—What I say is this: that a great deal of labour was wasted. I believe fewer hands might be employed, and more work done. 7932. I understand you to say that you caused all those servants, grooms, gardeners, and washerwomen that the attorneys were employing to be dismissed ? —Yes, I cut their wages out of my pay list; I said I would allow no more of those charges, and I took the sums allowed to the managers and overseers for servants out of my pay list, giving the managers and overseers an increase of salary. 7933. Is not it the custom in those islands for the attorneys to have housekeepers at the expense of the proprietors?—That I do not know; they have servants. 7934. You have told the Committee that the labourers are rather at variance with the masters, and that there is rather an unwillingness to work ?—I did not say at variance ; there is an unwillingness on their part to work. 7935. Did you hear any complaints that the labourers had against their employers, or against the upper class in Antigua?—No, I went among the labourers myself; I saw a good deal of them; I went into their houses and was willing to hear all that they had to say. The negroes are always ready to make complaints, but I do not think they had any cause for complaint; they were very well off indeed, much better off than the labourers in this country; I am speaking of the period since slavery. I was always under the impression, as was my father before me, that the slaves of the West Indies were better off than the labourers in this country. From what I heard, however, while I was out there, I have come to quite a different opinion : I believe that slavery at no very distant period before the emancipation existed in all its horrors upon the estates, even upon my father's estates. K k: 2 0.32. 7936. It

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7936. It is since the abolition of slavery that you have arrived at the conclusion that the negro is better off than our English labourers?—Yes. 7937. Mr. Goulburn.] You speak in the one case from personal observation, 9 March 1848. and in the other from the report of others?—My informer was Dr. Odlam, who had been the surgeon upon those estates for 30 or 40 years. 7938. Mr. Villiers.] Have you heard any complaint from the labourers of their having been deprived of the franchise, which, as freeholders, they were entitled to in Antigua?—No, I do not state that what I have said about slavery occurred just before the emancipation ; the agitation of the slavery question, I have no doubt, produced good effects in the West Indies for some time previous to emancipation. 7939. You told us that the missionaries had done great service, and prepared the negroes for emancipation ?—I have no doubt they had. 7940. You do not know that the negroes have been deprived of the franchise which gave them the power of sending persons to the vestries ?—No, I believe if they had that power the whole island would be in confusion. 7941. Mr. Goulburn.] Have they that power or not ?—I do not know ; I never heard that they were deprived of any power, and I am sure they would have told me if it had been so. 7942. Mr. Villiers.] You give the Committee a good character of the population ?—I believe if they were well managed there would be nothing to complain of in their conduct. 7943. You mean that the proportion of labour to capital in that island gives a great advantage to the labourers at present?—It does. 7944. In no other respect do you see any bad disposition on the part of the peasantry?—No; I believe the people in this country would not be better disposed were they similarly circumstanced. 7945. What would you state as the result of your observations with respect to the population ; are they as much advanced in civilization and religion as the peasantry in some parts of this country ?—I think they are ; I took out a considerable number of books for them, and I found most of those under a certain age could read. The old people could not read, because they had not been taught, but under a certain age I should say there were few who could not read; and I think one of the best regulated schools I ever saw in my life was in Antigua at St. John's. 7946. Whose school was that ?—It was under the care of Archdeacon Holberton. I was sorry afterwards that I did not visit all the schools. We have no Baptists there ; we have the Moravians and Wesleyans, as well as the Church, and I believe that we are under great obligation to all three. 7947. Do you know that the negroes have established independent hamlets or villages, between 1834 and 1845 ?—Yes. I am offering to let them have land on advantageous terms, for the purpose of establishing such villages near my estates. 7948. What would be,the effect of your plan being carried out, of introducing 2,000 fresh labourers from Madeira; would it occasion discontent?—I do not believe it would. I believe it would be better for the people in Antigua themselves that they should be imported. 7949. I take for granted the first effect would be to lower wages?—I think it would have the effect of lowering the wages, but it would bring the people more under the control of the managers, which I believe would be for their advantage. If the labourers here were not under any control, if they considered they conferred a great favour upon their employers by working for them, it would not be for their advantage. 7950. At present the contract price is about 8d. a day, is not it?—I believe it is reduced to 6 d.; it was 10d. I think. 7951. There is more than one class of labourers, is not there?—Yes. 7952. Three classes, are not there?—Yes, more than three. 7953. What is the lowest rate of wages which any class of labourers receive? —Fourpence; the great majority of labourers there are women. 7954. Do they work in the cane fields ?—Yes ; the greater portion of the work is performed by women. 79,55. As effectually as by men ?—Yes, I believe so ; they are, physically, an extraordinary race. 7956. Are

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7956. Are they preferred to men?—No; the men can get other employment, J, Tollemache, Esq. M.P. and therefore the women are employed ; the great majority of labourers in the fields are women. 9 March 1848. 7957. What do they earn per day ; have you been talking of women or men when you have been speaking of 6 d. a day?—Whether women or men, they receive just the same when they are working in the field. I think 4d. a day is the lowest rate of wages paid ; that is since the reduction which has taken place. 7958. Probably a labourer engaged at 4d. would not do a full day's work ?— I am sure he would not. 7959. When did that reduction take place?—It took place last December. 7960. There has been no resistance on the part of the labourers to receiving those low wages?—Iain told on some estates they have struck for higher wages. 7961. What would be the effect of introducing those labourers from Madeira; would it bring them to their senses, and make them submit to the price that the planters offer now?—It would assist in doing so; I should be very sorry to see the price of labour lower than it is now. 7962. At the same time, if those labourers were introduced it would lower the price of labour ?—It would not lower it below 6 d., but it would enable them to keep the labourers at 6 d. 7963. There is labour enough now, if they would work, is not there?—I believe if there were 2,000 more labourers in Antigua, work would be found for them, provided the estates were able to pay their way. 7964. It would not be. sufficient to introduce labourers, unless the price were maintained here ?—If the estates in the island are thrown out of cultivation, it will be useless introducing a number of labourers. 7965. You said you will not send out more capital unless the price is retained here?—Unless I believe the prices will be remunerating, I shall not send out capital. 7966. You say the price this year is remunerating to you ?—It is. 7967. Have you any doubt that capital will be continued in the island, if the price remains what it is now ?—I believe, if the price of sugar remains what it is now, freedom may and will have a fair trial in Antigua. 7968. If those labourers are brought in, you think they will be employed, and there will be a reduction of wages ?—My belief is, that the planters would be able to keep the wages at what they have arrived at now. 7969. Have any persons followed your example, do you know, in introducing those improvements upon their estates?—Sir William Codrington, two years before, struck out a great many allowances which he objected to in his pay list. 7970. What did I understand you to say was the cost beyond the 15 s. to bring the sugar to the market; did not you say 7 s. ?—Yes. 7971. That includes freight and mercantile charges?—Yes; 15s. is the cost of production, to which must be added 21 s. including the dutv, 7 s. exclusive of the duty. Sugar sold at that price would not be remunerating to me ; I should •lot receive a farthing profit. 7972. You have told the Committee the present price which is remunerating?—Yes; I believe 39s. would be remunerating to me; I should receive a very small income, hut I should get something. 7973. What do you set down as freight out of the 7s. ?—Four shillings. 7974. The freights are high, are not they ?—I believe that is the ordinary freight from Antigua; I am not aware that any person pays any lower freight than that. 7975. Are you aware what freight is paid from any of the slave countries ?— Yes, I believe it is less than that. 7976. Would it be an object to the planter to reduce that item in his general expenditure ?—Of course it would ; it would enable him to compete with Cuba, frith a smaller protection. 7977. Are there any other charges which you think could be reduced • do you believe the mercantile charges are as low as they might be ?—I have not' vet considered that; the charges are 3s., beside freight. 7978. Do you know whether those charges are generally the same?—I believe they are the usual charges now. K K 3 7979. Those 0.32.

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7979. Those improvements that you have made have been commenced since the protection has been lowered, and with the prospect of its being withdrawn altogether ?—Yes ; but I had reason to believe that the price of labour in Cuba was likely to rise, and was rising. I am not at all afraid of beet-root sugar, but I am very much afraid of slave labour. 7980. These improvements which you have made, and this economy which you have iutroduced, became more necessary in consequence of the prospect of protection being withdrawn ?—I believe if protection be totally withdrawn, all those reductions will be perfectly useless. 7981. Those estates prospered, and the planters were well off, while protection continued, though all those abuses existed on the estate?—Yes, those objectionable charges. 7982. It is the withdrawal of the protection which makes the introduction of better machinery and the abolition of those unnecessary charges peculiarly requisite ?—Yes ; I think protection to a certain extent is necessary, but I am also of opinion that it is not desirable to give over-protection. 7983. In consequence of its leading to negligence and abuse?—Yes, overprotection. I am as positive, however, that we cannot do without some protection, and that I shall have (favourably circumstanced as my estates are) to abandon those estates in consequence of my inability to compete with Cuba. For instance, Mr. Moody informed you the other day that the cost of production in Cuba was 8 s. 6d.; my cost of production for several years to come I do not believe can be less than 15 s. 7984. Do you know anything yourself of Cuba ?—My information was from a gentleman residing there, Mr. M'Carthy ; and what he informed me was corroborated by information received from others. 7985. You do not know anything of the policy of the mother country with respect to Cuba ?—No. 7986. You do not know anything of the intentions of the present governor who has gone out to Cuba?—I believe Cuba is almost independent of Spain; I do not believe that Spain would have the power of putting a stop to slavery in Cuba. It is a fact that the late governor was very anxious that the importations should go on; he was interested in the importation of slaves, but owing to the opposition he met with from the Creoles who possessed slaves, the slave trade was put a stop to. 7987. You know that that governor is not there now ?—I do not know it. 7988. Do you know that it depends upon the governor whether the slave trade can be carried on so as to be profitable ?—He cannot oblige the importation of slaves if the Creoles object to it; and if the Creole population are in favour of it, I do not believe the governor of Cuba has the power of preventing their importation. 7989. You know nothing of the circumstances under which the slaves are imported ?— No, I do not. 7990. When you refer to the prospect of the cost of Cuba sugar as compared with that produced in Antigua, it is not from any knowledge of what is likely to occur in Cuba?—I am satisfied that the production of Cuba will be very much increased by what is taking place here, and therefore it will bring down the price of sugar to a sum in this country which will not be remunerating even to those who have property in Antigua. 7391. Your apprehension of Cuba is on account of the slave trade?—I believe, if there were no slaves imported into Cuba, the price of labour would rise in Cuba. 7992. Sir E. Buxton.] Though you have never been in Cuba, you have formed an opinion respecting it from the information of other people?—Yes. 7993. Did you hear from them that the Cuba planters are generally resident? —I think I did hear that. 7994. Being resident continually on the estates, do you think that that would give them an advantage, independently of slavery, over our colonies ?—I do not think it would. If the proprietors in England went out and resided on their estates it would be attended, I think, with great advantage ; but if the Creoles resident in Antigua possessed all the land there, I very much doubt whether they would carry out such reforms as I am now introducing. I was very much struck in the West Indies by the fact of their confining their observations so entirely to the island in which they live. Though St. Kilt's is in sight of Antigua, 7

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Antigua, I believe they know no more of what is going on in St. Kitt's than we do J. Tollemache, Esq. in England. They have had an agricultural association lately formed in M. P. Antigua, and I was applied to to subscribe to it. I said, of course if it was the wish of the Governor I would do so, though I believed the subscription would 9 March 1848. be thrown away if they simply confined their observations to the island itself; and I urged upon them to send out deputations to St. Kitt's and St. Croix, to take advantage of any improvement which might be introduced into those islands. 7995. Do you think such improvements may eventually be made that you may be able to compete with the sugar grown by slave traders?—I do not think it is possible ; my own belief is, that if I were certain of a moderate protection against slavery, I should not hesitate to send out machinery and improved stills forthwith to Antigua, and I have no doubt I should ultimately cut down the expense of production considerably below the 15 s., but not at present. 7996. If a moderate protection were given you, you would be able to cut down the cost of growing free-grown sugar as low as probably under any circumstances it could be cut down ?—Yes, I am quite certain a great deal may be done by economising labour in Antigua. 7997. You think improvements of that kind may still he made?—I am sure they may, but you cannot carry them out immediately; you cannot do so even in this country: what I mean by economising labour is, not to dismiss the labourers, but to take care that every man employed is profitably employed. We know from what has taken place in this country, in Suffolk for instance, they are able to grow wheat at much less cost than they did several years ago, by introducing superior management, though the number of hands employed is considerably increased ; there is a greater number of labourers, but no waste of labour. 7998. You think the produce of the land with the same number of labourers may be rendered much greater in Antigua, by better management ?—Yes ; I am going to cut down the labourers upon my estate; but if the managers were once taught good management, I should wish to see the present number of hands, if not a greater number, employed upon my estate; but I desire to teach them to economise labour, which can only be done by compelling them to employ fewer hands. 7999. You think those improvements will be very much checked unless some protection is given to the West Indies ?—Yes, it will be so as regards my estates. 8000. Have you formed an idea of what amount of protection would be sufficient ?—Fifteen shillings against 8 s. Gd.; I believe that would be sufficient for Antigua. When I say sufficient, the income I should derive would be very small indeed ; hut if you ask me what I should do if you would guarantee me that protection, I tell you I should feel it my duty to go on in the cultivation of my estates. 8001. In many cases the labourers work by task-work, do not they ?—To a certain extent, such as feeding the mills; that is done by task-work. 8002. Do you use the plough a good deal?—I am now using the plough a good deal, and I am introducing great improvements in cultivation, by which weeding machines and scarifiers may be used. 8003. How many cane-holes do the people dig for a day's work?—I cannot say. 8004. Your difficulty with the labourers is to obtain continuous labour, probably?—Yes. 8005. Can you suggest any means by which labour can be made more continuous?—Yes, by economizing labour, thereby making the supply equal to the demand ; at present there is a sort of scramble for labourers. 8006. The effect is the same as is produced anywhere where the demand for labour is greater than the supply ?—Yes. 8007. Have you any poor-laws in Antigua?—No, but we have pensioners; the old negroes who are past work receive pensions. I cannot say whether those parties have a right to them, or whether they are given them. I am inclined to think they have no legal right, but they have been faithful labourers, and therefore they are given those pensions. 8008. The amount of waste land in Antigua is very small, is not it? Yes ; hut there is waste land there. I believe the present population of Antigua, if 0.32. K K 4 ° the

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the labour were not wasted, would make the island produce more than it produces now, at a considerably less cost of production ; but if some of the estates were thrown up I believe we should have squatters in Antigua, and in that case I very much doubt whether the estates which were kept in cultivation would be as well supplied with labour as they are at present. 8009. At present there is but little squatting?—Very little. 8010. And not much vagrancy?—I saw none at all. I believe with 6 d. a day they may live very comfortably ; you see them now dressed in the most absurd way; they have evidently a good deal of money to spend in the way of dress. 8011. Do not you think that the reduction of wages would induce them also to be more continuous in their labour ?—I believe it would ; I believe, as far as the people are concerned, they would be socially quite as well off with Gd. a day as they are at present. You will see them with the most expensive sort of parasols, &c. I saw some labourers come to demand an increase of wages from Sir William Codrington, and one of them had a parasol with fringe round it, and an ivory handle. I mention this to show that it would be no hardship to the blacks if they had a reduction of wages; I believe it would be better for them. 8012. How many days in a week do they work now ?—I believe six days a week. 8013. How many hours a day?—That I cannot say. 8014. Have you made any calculations of the average number of days' work you get out of a man in a year ?—No. I have now endeavoured to bring the expenditure under my own control. I have had the pay-lists drawn out in a particular form, and I have fly-sheets drawn out in the same form ; once a month they send me home the fly-sheet, which is an exact copy of the paylist; therefore I see if there are any improper payments in it. I have reason to believe, from those pay-lists, that in consequence of the wages being reduced, the labourers are more regular in their work. I am satisfied that as far as the labourers are concerned, it is no great hardship to them their wages being reduced to the extent they have been ; but I very much doubt wages standing at that rate, when I consider the way in which it has been accomplished. 8015. How has it been accomplished?—By the attorneys combining together not to give above a certain rate; it has not been done naturally, by the supply being made greater than the demand. 8016. Are you aware whether there is any law regulating and enforcing contracts for labour in Antigua?—Yes, and I wish there was no such thin" as contract labour in Antigua. I am satisfied that if the whole labour market were thrown open, and the men lived upon their wages and paid rents for their houses, it would be much better than the present system. 8017. Mr. Miles.] How long were you on the estate in Antigua ?—A month, as nearly as possible. 8018. Did you go to any of the other islands?—I rode through Burbadoes; I was there only one day. 8019. Did you reside on the estates the whole of that time?—With the exception of a few days that I was in Barbuda. I was residing close to the estates. 8020. Did you make it your business to go round the estates every day ?— Yes ; I was on horseback all day ; I gave my attention up to them. In Antigua not only did I see a great waste of labour, but I was satisfied that the land did not produce what it was capable of. 8021. What is the average produce per acre from your own estates?—My estates average about 50 plants. The cane land is divided into three parts ; onethird would be fallow, one-third ratoons, and one-third would be plants. 8022. What, yield do you obtain ?—I have 500 acres in plants and ratoons, from which ray average crop is 520 hogsheads. 8023. Have 250 acres in ratoons, have not you ?—Yes. 8024. How far do yon think that production might be increased?—I am not a planter; hut from what I have seen, I know that that land might be made to produce a great, deal more. I saw fields full of Devil's Grass ; very often the fallow consists of a crop of that; some estates there are much better cultivated than others. 8025. Have you never charged rent for your houses in Antigua?—No. 8026. Not

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8026. Not at any period since the emancipation ?—It has never been done ; the J. Tollemache, Esq. future depends entirely upon what may be done for us. If there is a chance of M. P. our being able to go on, it I see that we have some moderate protection against slave labour, I take an interest in the estates now, and I shall certainly see if 9 March 1648. I cannot carry out improvements to a much greater extent. 8027. Do you know that that has been the usual practice in Jamaica, and that they have been obliged to give it up lately?—I can quite understand that that is so. 8028. Do you recommend that medical attendance should be done away with altogether ?—Yes. 8029. Do not you think it is the interest of the planter to keep the people in health ?—Yes, certainly. 8030. Do you not think that they would refuse to go to the doctors themselves ?—I do not believe they would; they are very fond of going to a doctor. 8031. Do you ever have fences round your fields in Antigua?—I never saw any there, or in Barbadoes. 8032. It is not very much to be wondered at therefore that the animals should run into the cane-fields?—'No. I think we might make improvements in many respects. 8033. With regard to the dung carts you saw being loaded by hand, have there never been any forks used at Antigua?—There may be some used, but I never saw any. 8034. Do they ever use wheelbarrows there ?—I do not think they do. I have sent out rakes and forks and spades; I give each estate a certain supply. 8035. Have you found any difficulty in making the labourers use them ?—I have not heard that yet. 8036. You do not know that that has been the chief difficulty in other islands ? •—I do not see that there is any reason why they should not learn. 8037. Do you happen to know what the taxes in the island are ; are they heavy ? —They are very high, but they vary very much. 8038. Can you tell the Committee what they are upon any of the estates ?— I think they are 3s. 3d. an acre upon some of the estates ; and that includes all laud, both cane lands and waste lands. 8039. Do you know what the Governor's salary is, and the officials' salaries? —I cannot say. 8040. You do not know whether those salaries would bear reducing?—No; I have not gone so much into the whole question as I should have done, because I feel, if we do not get a moderate protection, we shall have to give up our estates. I have no doubt the local taxation can be very much reduced, and also the cost of production. It can be done, I think, considerably below the 15s., but not immediately. 8041. Do you think it would produce a beneficial result if the reduction were to begin with the Governor's salary, and go down through all the higher classes to the labourers ?—I do not know, because I am not aware what the Governor's salary is. 8042. With regard to pensioners, you do not happen to know whether the estates were bound to keep those pensioners. There was a law passed upon emancipation, by which labourers unable to work at that time were obliged to be maintained at the estate's expense ?—It is possible that those in my pay-lists may be cases of that description ; I am not aware how that is. 8043.. Mr. M. Gibson.] You say that the cost can be reduced considerably below 15 s. a cwt. ultimately ?—I think it can. 8044. It was stated to Parliament in 1832 that the cost of a cwt. of sugar, after deducting rum and molasses, and not allowing the interest upon capital or on the money invested in land and buildings, or on the value of negroes, was 15 s. look a cwt. If that statement were true, and if it were a statement founded upon an average of years, the cost of a cwt. of sugar at this time is not materially different in fact from what it was then, and according to your account it may be less than it is now ?—I do not say it is 15 s. at this time ; I speak of what the cost of cultivation will be upon my estates. 8045. If this statement were true, you are of opinion that the cost of a cwt. of sugar now is not greater than it was then; it may therefore be ultimately much less than it was then ?—Yes. L L 0.32. 8046. Does

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8046. Does your 15 s. include any of those items which are not included in the 15 s. 10 d. that was given as the cost in 1832 ; that 15 s. 10 d. was not inclusive of interest on capital, or the interest of money invested in building, or the 9 March 1848. interest of the value of negroes; does your 15 5. include interest of money invested in land and buildings ?—No, it is exclusive of that. 8047. Therefore the two calculations are made up of the same elements ?— They appear to be. 8048. Do you know the agent of the island of Antigua ?—I have not the pleasure of personally knowing him; Mr. Nugent is the agent, I believe. 8049. Do you know Mr. Anthony Brown, who was the agent ?—No. 8050. With regard to the present state of distress, I wish to call your attention to this statement, with a view of asking you whether the present distress is at all of the same nature as was represented by Mr. Anthony Brown, then agent of Antigua, to be the distress at that time. Mr. Anthony Brown says the distress at that time, namely, in the year 1831, was such as "to threaten one general bankruptcy among the landed interests, the dismemberment of their estates, and the incapacity to provide the common sustenance of the negro population." He says, " I think the distress in those islands to be greater even than that which prevails in the other islands, because, in addition to the circumstances which have led to the general distress, the islands that I speak of are subject exclusively to per cent., those islands being in a most impoverished state." Could a duty of the distress which now exists be fairly, without exaggeration, stated to be of such a nature as Mr. Brown there describes it?—It may; I should think affairs in Jamaica are even worse than they were in those days, though certainly they could not well he worse than the description there given. 8051. This threatened universal bankruptcy, the dismemberment of the estates, arid the incapacity to sustain the negro population, were at the time when slavery existed, when there was full control over labour, and when there was ample protection ; what is your reason, therefore, for supposing that the restoration of that protection would prevent a different state of tilings from occurring to what then occurred ?—I hardly know what occasioned that distress at this moment. I do not believe, myself, that it will be any advantage to the West India islands to give them an unreasonable protection. 8052. It is quite clear that at that time the protection was not operative to prevent the most alarming distress?—I do not know anything of the circumstances of that period. 8053. Mr. Anthony Brown, the agent for Antigua, represented to the British Parliament, in 1831, that at that time the distress was such as "to threaten one general bankruptcy among the landed interests, the dismemberment of their estates, and the incapacity to provide for the common sustenance of the negro population ;" would that be an over-statement of the present state of things in Antigua ?—I should think that at the present time they must be in much the same position that they were in in those days, if that statement was correct. 8054. You think, if this description be correct, they are in the same state now that they were in 1830?—Yes. 8055. Why do you think, inasmuch as protection did not prevent that state of things happening then, that it will prevent it for the future ?—I cannot answer that question till you tell me what occasioned that state of tilings; unless you can tell me what occasioned that distress, I do not see how I am to answer the question. 8056. You say that protection is necessary ?—Yes. 8057. All this happened with protection ?—Yes; but there were other causes that produced it. I must know what those causes were. 8058. Mr. Anthony Brown, who was then agent of Antigua, attributed the distress to certain causes ; those causes were first, reduced prices, induced by redundant supplies to the home market from the British plantations; and increased supplies to the European markets from foreign possessions. Are not you of opinion that those same causes have arisen now ; namely, that there have been increased supplies from the colonies to the mother country, and also increased supplies to the European markets from foreign possessions?—I believe, myself, that if it were not for the great reduction which has taken place in the protecting duty, sugars would have realized higher prices than they have done this year. I believe we are suffering now, in a great measure, from the want of a protection against slave labour. 8059. Mr.

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8059. Mr. Brown attributed your distress to an increased supply of two kinds; J. Tollemache, Esq. namely, an increased supply from foreign possessions, and also an increased M.P. supply from our own colonies; do not you think that the present lowering of the price is attributable to the same causes?—I believe it is in a great measure 9 March 1848. owing to slave labour coming into competition with free labour. 8060. Mr. Brown attributed the distress then to "the great distrust in West Indian security, whereby property has become unsaleable, and altogether unavailable in the way of loans and money arrangements." Do not you think that want of confidence now has produced the same effect ?—I believe that the same want of confidence exists now. 8061. Mr. Brown also said, that there was "a good deal of difficulty to be attributed to the unequal and distinguishing duties between British rum and British spirits made in this country." Do you think there is any injury to the West Indian interests by giving that favour to corn spirits over rum ?—I do not think any great benefit would be derived to the West Indians if that protection were removed ; it would create a greater consumption, but it would stimulate a greater supply from Cuba and Brazil. 8062. Do you view that as a protection to the British agricultural interest ?—I should think it is no great value to them ; but I am not prepared for those questions. 8063. You do not think it is worth keeping by the English agricultural interest ?—That I have not considered sufficiently to answer. 8064. Do you think that the English agricultural interest should be protected, in order to give additional profit to them at the expense of the West India interests ?—I am in favour of a proper amount of protection to all interests. 8065. Are you favourable to maintaining the present differential duties between corn-spirits and rum ?—If the landed interest in this country requires that protection, I am favourable to it. 8066. If you think that the landed interest requires that protection, you are prepared to maintain it?—I certainly am. 8067. Then you are prepared to say that you would protect the English landed interest, if I understand you, even at the expense of the West Indian planter?—I would protect them all; if the protection is withdrawn from them, those who withdraw it should bear the responsibility, not me. 8068. Mr. Matheson.] How much cane land have you upon the estate ?—The total average acreage of the five estates is 1,456 ; of this 797 acres are cane lands, two-thirds of which are under cultivation. 8069. Mr. Moffat.] Have you made any estimate of the value of the buildings upon these estates ?—No. 8070. The land under cultivation yields about 520 hogsheads ?—Upon the average, the two-thirds of cane lands produce 520 hogsheads. 8071. How many men have you employed in the cultivation of this land ?— I am about to make a great alteration in this. I requested my managers to let me know the smallest number of labourers they could possibly do with, both in crop and not in crop. That number they supplied me with, and I have had this statement made out; namely, the number applied for, and the number I intend to allow them. 8072. What was the number applied for, and what number have you allowed ? —Many gentlemen connected with Antigua would think that I am going too far; I am trying, if I can, to force the economizing of labour upon my estate, by only allowing a certain number of hands. 8073. What is the extent of the proposed reduction ?—The number applied for in crop time is .354 ; I have no doubt I shall be able to reduce it to 310. The number applied for, not in crop time, is 253 ; the number I intend to allow them is certainly not more than 190. Notwithstanding this reduced number of hands, I am satisfied that now, with the effective stock and implements lately supplied to my estates, weeding operations can be better carried on, and the land brought to a much higher state of cultivation than before. 8074. What proportion docs the labour bear to the cost of the production of the sugar ?—Two-thirds. 8075. This will make a reduction in the cost of production to the extent of about 16 per cent, altogether?—Yes ; I have calculated that, in the expectation of reducing it to 15 s. 8076. You expressed a very strong opinion of the advantages to be derived by a residence upon the estates in the island?—I believe, if the present pro0.32. L L 2 prietors

260 J. Tollemache, Esq. M. P.

9 March 1848.

minutes of evidence taken before the

prietors were to reside upon their estates, it would be attended with a considerable advantage ; but I also believe, that if the estates were in the hands of those who reside out there now, they would not carry out the same improvements that we should. 8077. From what cause do you think that arises ; from their being oppressed with mortgages ?—That I cannot tell; I should fear a good many were indebted to their merchants. 8078. Are you cognizant of what are the charges on those mortgages ?—No, I am not. 8079. You are scarcely prepared to speak, therefore, to the obstruction they present to the improvement of an estate so mortgaged ?—No. 8080. Upon your estate you say it is the practice to support the aged labourers ?— Upon this pay-list I see the names of some such persons. 8081. Who are past their labour?—I have no doubt they are. 8082. Do you know whether that is the general practice in Antigua ?—I have no doubt it is so. 8083. Then the negroes do not support their own aged poor ?—That I cannot say. 8084. Do you find among emancipated negroes much improvidence or extravagance, or are they of a thrifty character ?—I am told there is hardly any trade answers so well as that of milliner. I believe a vast amount of money is thrown away by them in dress ; the newest fashions are introduced in Antigua. 8085. You also made some allusion to the practice of pilfering and thieving among the negroes?—I know that is the opinion of the managers, but I do not like to make the charge myself. 8086. Nothing of the kind came under your observation?—No; I am disposed myself to look favourably upon their character altogether; if they had the same advantage as white people they would behave as well. 8087. You have stated that you believe that the estates in the West Indies could produce sugar and pay the growers, were it not for the competition with Cuba and Porto Rico?—Yes. 8088. Are you aware at all of the cost of labour in Porto Rico or Cuba?—Mr. Macarty told me, and he is connected with one of the largest estates in Cuba, and his statement was afterwards confirmed by others, that he could deliver sugar at 12 s. at the place of shipment, and receive a fair profit. 8089. You do not know the cost of labour?—No. I informed the Committee before that I knew that in 1 846 the price of labour was rising rapidly in Cuba; but at that time there was no slave trade. 8090. You are not aware, then, the cost of labour at Port Rico is considerably higher than in Antigua?—No. Previous to my leaving Antigua I handed to my attorney the following rules for the future management of my estates, and requested him to supply each of the managers with a copy. [The Witness delivered in the following Paper :] RULES

to be strictly observed in the Management of Mr. Tollemache's Estates, unless express Orders are received from him to the contrary.—4 January 1847.

The managers of Wetherell's Gamble's, and Glanville's to have each an annual salary of I. sterling. The manager of Delap's and Lucas' (both under one manager) to have an annual salary of 105 l. sterling; the overseer of Delap's J5 I. sterling, and the overseer of Lucas' (where no manager resides) 651, sterling. No perquisites of any kind to be allowed to attorney, managers, or overseers. The attorney and managers to be allowed each the use and keep of one horse, but no other horses to be kept on the estates. No manager or overseer to be removed from his situation without Mr. Tollemache being informed of the circumstance, and the cause of his removal. Sugar-canes and Guinea corn only to be cultivated. No Guinea corn to be grown on cane land. If the able-bodied portion of a family quit the estate, the other members must also leave without loss of time. No labourer having given up his residence on the estates, unless his services he required as ranger, ploughman, or stockminder, to be allowed to return. No garden ground to be more than one-eighth of an acre. I he list of articles wanted annually from England for each estate to be made out and signed by the managers, and afterwards submitted to the attorney for his approval, who must forward it direct to Mr. Tollemache, and not to the merchants. The 120 /. sterling, and the overseers of those estates 55

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The stock kept on the estates to be in future as follows, and when once supplied no job J. Tollemache, Esq. carts to be employed :â&#x20AC;&#x201D; M. p. Horses.

Delap's Lucas' Glanville's Wetherell's Gamble's

1 -

1 2

Mules.

Oxen.

TOTAL.

18 18 18 18 18

35 35 28 28 35

54 53 47 48 54

The stock to be well attended to, well fed, and kept in good working condition. The managers authorized to go to the extent of allowing the mules four quarts of Guinea corn or Indian corn, and the oxen three pounds of oil cake a day, together with a liberal supply of cane tops, &c. If during crop, or any other time, the mules or oxen can be more economically fed and kept in good order with less corn or oil cake, the managers to use their own discretion in reducing the quantity. Each estate to have pens and covered sheds, with good feeding troughs for the stock, the ground under the sheds to be 12 or 18 inches higher than that in the open part of the pens. Stockminders carefully selected to have charge of the pens, and to feed, water, and take care of the stock, and also to litter the sheds and keep them clean and dry, by carting the manure as it accumulates into a heap in the centre of the pens. The stock to be accustomed by degrees to being kept in the pens, and (excepting when at work or taken to water) to be ultimately confined in them altogether. The old oxen, instead of being worked till they die, to be fattened in the pens, and sold to the butcher; their places to be supplied by the purchase of fresh cattle of from three to four years of age. Eresh cattle recently purchased from Barbuda to be managed as follows : to couple them to old oxen for a fortnight or so, then to let them be idle for another month, then to work them gently by giving them long spells for several months, and at the end of five or six months to work them regularly with the other cattle. Although on the one hand it is poor economy to understock estates with half-starved cattle, still it is, on the other, the height of folly and extravagance to keep a good supply of well-fed cattle, unless those cattle be fully, regularly, and profitably employed. Let the ploughing and cross-ploughing be done by the oxen ; and the carting, scarifying, harrowing, weeding, and forming the land into ridges for planting, by the mules. The managers must allow nothing to interfere with the regular work of the cattle (particularly the oxen), and keep the ploughs, scarifiers, &c. (weather permitting) constantly going. Two well-fed animals will do as much, and more than as much as three half-starved. Three mules must not be employed in a cart which could be drawn by two. The fewer mules employed in carting, (lie greater number can be spared for scarifying, harrowing, &c. All waste of fodder must be guarded against, and good dry food, consisting of cane-tops, &c., must be carefully collected and stacked near to each pen; dry fodder for mules and oxen to be cut into chaff. Wages to labourers to be paid weekly, and salaries quarterly. The pay-books to be made up monthly, and kept after a printed form that will be supplied to each estate: separate sheets of paper, printed in the same form, will also be supplied for the managers to make an exact copy at the commencement of every month of the entries in the pay-hook of the preceding month ; the copy to be sent to the attorney, and forwarded by him, together with a copy of the plantation accounts for the same month, to Mr. Tollemache. Stockkeepers at Wetherell's Gamble's, and Glanville's to be two men and two boys for each estate; at Lucas', one man and one boy ; and at Delap's one man and three boys for the large mule pen, and one man and one boy for ox pens. Management of the Land, and Planting. The plan Mr. Tollemache intends to have adopted on his estates is to pulverize the soil and clear it of weeds effectually, by ploughing, cross-ploughing, scarifying, harrowing, and raking the weeds into heaps and burning them. When the ratoon crop is taken oft', manure the whole surface, and then plough about half the usual depth the land; After exposing the soil for a few days to the influence of the sun, &c., harrow twice, and rake up the weeds and bum them; afterwards cross plough, and then from time to time, as the weeds show themselve, run the scarifier over the field. If there be Devil's Grass in the ground, the ploughing and cross-ploughing must be repeated during the fallow, with harrowing and burning the weeds. When the time arrives for planting, plough, cross-plough a good depth, and harrow and rake the weeds into heaps arid burn them, spreading the cinders over the soil; then form the land into flat ridges, five feet wide, with good deep furrows; then run the sub-soil plough through the bottom of the furrows, to loosen the earth and make a soft bed for the roots; then put in single plants, three feet and a half from each other, along the furrows, leaving five feet between each row, which will enable the canes and rid ires to have frequent weedings with the weeding-machine, moulding up the earth to the plants as they cun L L 3 0.32.

g March 1848.

262

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

The hand-hoe to be used only for weeding in the furrows between the plants; J. Tollemache, Esq. can bear it. M.P. the plants to be put in with the drill (i. e. the crowbar), and set not upright but slantingways._ On the side of a hill, the furrows and ridges to be run across'and not down the declivity, and if the bill be very steep, cross holes may be made here and there in the fur9 March 1848. rows, to prevent washings. The effect of all this will be to keep the lands clean, and open them to the fertilizing influences of the air, dew, and rain. It will also open a free passage for the roots of the cane to penetrate in all directions, and at the same time circulate the gases of the manures through the pores of the earth; thus mutually facilitating the supply and reception of the nourishment. The thin planting will admit the air and sun to the growing canes, and they will consequently bunch more strongly and grow larger; 3,000 plants per acre only, instead of a much greater number, will be'required, thus lessening the cost of obtaining them, leaving additional food for cattle, and (as a more careful selection of good plants can be made) obviating the inconvenience and expense of renewing the plants which die from not being perfect when put in. The harrows and scarifiers, worked by three or four mules, will tear up the weeds and expose them to the action of the sun, and not only keep the soil free of weeds, but again and again open it to the air and rain. When a manager finds that he cannot, owing to the weather, the foulness of the land, or any other cause, carry out thoroughly Mr. Tollemache's system of cultivation in all the fields intended for plant canes, he must lessen the breadth of planting for that year, by taking a second ratoon off some of the best fields. If the land previous to planting be brought, as it always should be, into a really high state of cultivation (that is, the weeds destroyed, and the soil made rich from manure, and brought to a fine tilth), little weeding will be required with the first ratoon, and a second ratoon may frequently be taken, indeed it may always be taken with advantage, if likely to produce a hogshead and a half per acre; second ratooning, by lessening the breadth of planting, facilitates greatly the getting the land that is to be planted into a highly cultivated condition. The system to be adopted in taking second ratoons to be as follows: As soon as the first ratoon is off the ground, collect as much as possible of the trash to litter the pens with, then burn the rest on the ground, and afterwards plough and harrow the field; if manure can be spared, spread it over the field previous to ploughing and harrowing. Guinea Corn:—Valuable as Guinea corn will be as food for the mules on the estates, it must be considered as secondary in importance to the sugar cane, and therefore the same care and expense should not be bestowed on its growth. Besides the crop of corn, two cuttings from the ratoons should, in favourable seasons, be obtained as fodder for cattle. Previous to sowing or planting Guinea corn plough the whole field, which will perhaps enable the corn to outgrow and overcome the weeds, and save the expense of weeding; if however weeding should be required, it must be done, not with the hand-hoe, but with the plough; consequently the rows of plants must be wide enough asunder to admit of the plough passing between them. The ploughs, scarifiers, and weeding machines, if made proper use of, will do effectually with cattle and comparatively a few people, what will otherwise be insufficiently done by the hand-hoe and a large number of unwilling labourers.

Francis Shand, Esq., called in; and Examined. F. Shand, Esq.

8091. YOU are a West India merchant and a Liverpool shipowner?—I am, and I may add a proprietor in Antigua. 8092. Can you give the Committee any account of the state of matters in Antigua at the present time?—In consequence of the sudden fall of the price of sugar, the whole proceeds of a very large crop have been absorbed in the cost of its production, and of course many bills having been protested and gone back, has thrown them into the greatest possible confusion. I think that that is the cause of the reduction of wages ; it is the difficulty of procuring money which has caused the reduction of wages. I am not of opinion that anything like combination has had that effect so much as the absolute force of circumstances. 8093. Have you any statement of the produce of your estates for some years back in quantity, and the proceeds in money ?—I have not the absolute amount received for the crops, but I have the course of expenditure for four years before emancipation, and for every year since. 8094. Have you the aggregate of the estates?—I have not; and there is considerable difference in the working of the estates. I will mention two or three estates; for instance, Jolly Hill and Golden Grove. I find, taking the average cost of production of sugar on an average of years from 1831 to 1834 inclusive, less molasses and rum, the cost was 7 s. 11 d. per cwt. ; the average of the total expenditure upon those estates was 1,552 l. 5 s. 5 d. for the four years. In the year 1834-35, which was the first year of freedom, the total expenses of those estates were 2,328 l. as. 10 d. I may observe with regard to those estates

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being extremely productive, or at least one of them being so, in provisions, the money payment consequent upon emancipation was considerable. In the year The sugar produced in 1835-36 the expenditure was 2,150l. 10 s. 10 d. 1834-35 was 2,726 cwt., and the cost was 13s. id. In 1836-37, which was the worst year on record, and when it did not rain for nearly nine months, the estates produced 967 cwt. I am not the proprietor of those estates, but I have leased them, and of course shall get rid of them as soon as I can. 8095. How many years have you them under rent for?—Six years, at 700 I. a year. 8096. What did the 967 cw t. cost you ?—At the rate of 40 s. a cwt. 8097. Will you proceed with a statement of the other years?—In 1837-38 the produce was 1,761 cwt., which cost about 19 s. 10 d. I have not got the amount of molasses on the other years till we come down to 1845-46 ; 1845-46 was a very wet year: the estates are badly situated, so as easily to get under water, and the negroes would not work on them. The work was almost in vain ; thev only made 722 cwt., and the cost was enormous, 97 s. I think. 8098. That was a very disastrous year ?—Yes. 8099. What did you lose that year ?—About 3,000 I. by those estates. In the last year, 1846-47, they made 2,532 cwt., at a cost of 28s. 11 d. 8100. What do you reckon your loss this year will be?—£.1,200, or 1,400 /. 8101. With a very large crop ?—On other estates; but these are estates which I must necessarily under the present course of things abandon; it is impossible to go on. They were formerly estates which had very fine gangs of people upon them, a large number of labourers; one of them was verv productive of provisions, and consequently they were supported at a small expense; otherwise they were estates difficult to cultivate. 8102. Have you any better estates?—Yes. I will now go to the one I should have mentioned first, Fitches Creek ; the whole average cost upon that estate, for four years before emancipation, was 1,421 L 18 s. 8 d., and the cost per cwt. was 7 s. 8 d. We went on very well for several years; in 1834-35 the whole production was 2,818 cwt., and the cost was is. id.; in 1835-36 they made 3,608 cwt., and the cost was 7 s. 5 d.; in 1845-46 they made 2,831 cwt., and the cost was 20 s. 2 d. ; in 1846-47 the product was 4,555 cwt., the cost was 15 s. 3d. I would just observe, that the labourers' wages paid last year exceeded the whole cost laid out for the average of the four years preceding emancipation. I have an estate that shows even a better result than that, Cedar Valley estate; I only came into possession of that the year before emancipation ; in that year I made 2,365 cwt. of sugar, at a cost of 3 s. 4 d. per cat. Last, year I made very nearly the same quantity of sugar, 2,318 cwt., and the cost was 145. 7d., the labourers' wages having been 860/. 4s. 6 d. I he total expenses of the cultivation the year preceding emancipation were 1,071 I. 195.; when I say the total expenses of cultivation, I mean the whole expenditure on the property, for managers and overseers, and so on. 8103. What do you estimate the expenses of labour to be as compared with the remaining expenses ?—They appear to he about one-half of the island expenses. 8104. Have you a statement of the different items of expenditure for a series of years, which you can put in?—I have the plantation accounts of another estate for 1833-34, which was the last year of slavery; and from the 1st of August to the 31st of July 1847, which was last year. Upon that estate we went a little beyond the 1st of August, for on the 1st of August we had not finished the crop; we therefore finished the crop, and made the year close with that; but the whole expenditure of that year was 1,227 l currency, and the total expenses of last year on the same estate, it having made last year the largest crop it ever had made, were 3,582 I. 4 s. lid. currency.—(The same were delivered in.) 8105. Chairman.] Can you tell the Committee what the income of those estates, or of any of your estates, was in the few years previous to emancipation, and especially in 1831-32, as compared with what they are now ?—I can only say that in 1845-46, I think, out of the nine estates of which we are the proprietors, there were only one or two estates turned their expenses and left a small sum, a few hundreds; whereas the other estates lost, I think, 4,000 I. or 5,000/. 8106. What did they do in 1846-47 ?—I can scarcely tell; but I fancy that Cedar Valley estate, which I have already mentioned, will about stand square. L L4 Harts 0.32.

661 F. Shand, Esq. 9 March 1848.

Vide Appendix.

264

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Harts and Royals will do something; there may be a few hundred pounds to the credit of that estate; and Fitches Creek will leave something, perhaps 1,200l. or 9 March 1848. 1,400 I. I believe all the other estates to be on the wrong side. 8107. Will the balance of the whole be, that there will be a loss?—A considerable loss. 8108. What information can you give the Committee upon the subject of the reduction in the cost of labour, and the reduction in the cost of cultivation ; do you know that the price of labour is generally reduced to 6 d. ?—It is reduced to 6d. for the performance of a certain task; there is a specified quantity of work which is expected to be done for 6 d. 8109. Was it 10 d. before ?—I think it is difficult to say what it was, the work was performed so irregularly, but I should say 10 d. was the very lowest. 8110. When did this reduction take place ?—Only two packets ago we had the information. 8111. Do you expect that reduction will last?-—It is a very difficult thing to say ; the negro labourers have already acquired a full knowledge of their power, and they are not so eager for labour as to work for less money than they can acquire from us. 8112. Having once succeeded in beating down wages to 6 d. a day, have you any apprehension that you may not be able to continue them at that rate?—It will depend upon the exercise of firmness on the part of individuals unquestionably. There are some who have the charge of the property of absentees, who if they saw their property falling behind their neighbours', would say, probably, " I have not labour enough ; I must have labour." And if the addition of a little more money will procure it, competition will be excited, and by that means they will creep up again. 8113. Nothing of that kind has taken place?—No, they are so prostrated from the results of last year; and the negroes are themselves pressed from the circumstance of the Americans having failed to bring their supplies. They having heard of the distress of the West Indies would not give them any credit, and they have not brought the usual supplies. They were therefore in considerable difficulties, and were willing to work, and do not appear to have resisted the reduction. 8114. Has that absence of supplies and consequent high price of provisions been an advantage to the planters, in forcing the labourers to work at less wages?—I fancy the necessity of getting some money, though it were much less than they wished to obtain, has induced them to accept a lower rate of wages, I look upon it, however, that the moment they acquire a greater degree of independence, so as to set them oft", they will seek higher wages. 8115. Should the planters succeed in keeping down the wages to 6 d., do you imagine that the cultivation of Antigua can be carried on to a profit ?—I think it may maintain itself, except upon some estates such as those I have alluded to, those southern estates which are very difficult to work ; they are heavy estates, the weeds grow very fast, and they require a larger extent of labour. 8116. Is it your opinion that if the prices of imported provisions were to be raised by means of import duties to the negroes, that would oblige them to take less wages?—I look upon it that 6 d. is the very lowest at which you can expect them to work. I do not think you could reduce the wages lower than that. 8117. Cannot they live very comfortably upon 6 d. a day ?—If they have to work to earn 6 d. a day they cannot apply themselves, as they do now, to a desultory sort of occupation ; they cannot go fishing one day and cutting wood another, or acting independently as they do now ; during the period of the first outset of freedom we endeavoured to make the provisions as reasonable to them as we could, and to make the wages sufficient for their maintenance. 8118. If duties were to be levied upon imported provisions, would there not be danger that they would have recourse to their provision grounds as a mode of maintenance more than at present?—I do not think they have ever applied themselves to their provision grounds so systematically as to produce them any certain supply. There are certain periods when the season having been favourable, it gives them an abundant supply, and then things are cheap; but I do not think that they, generally speaking, devote themselves with any regular labour and industry to their own grounds; they put in sweet potatoes and a little corn ; you seldom see anything more than that. 8119. You F. Skind, Esq.

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8119. You have been in Antigua ?—A great many years; I was there the four years preceding emancipation, and the greater part of seven years afterwards. 8120. ou heard Mr. Tollemache's evidence; do you conceive that any such reductions of expense in the management of your estates can be made as those that he referred to ?—I do not think so; I have had my estates under the hands of a gentleman who did not manage them exactly upon those terms. 8121. Have there been any perquisites given upon your estates?—A little corn was given ; a bushel of com, or something of that sort, was the perquisite of the manager in slave times, and to some extent that has been continued; I desired it to be discontinued last year, because I thought it better that the manager should receive his whole payment in salary*. 8122. A bushel of corn a week?—Yes; it was to feed the fowls. 8123. Is that Indian corn ?—Yes, worth about a dollar, or 4 s. or 5 s., but that I do not think is anything very material. 8124. Are there any such perquisites as washerwomen and grooms?—No ; the manager has his groom, but lie is the estate servant to groom the horses of the estate, which is necessary for the performance of his duty upon the estate. 8125. Is he exclusively the groom of the manager's horse, or has he other horses to attend to belonging to the estate?—There are other horses he must turn his attention to. 8126. Do you conceive that those abuses are general?—I think not. I pay my attorney in a different way; I pay him a per centage upon the net proceeds in this country. 8127. I understand you to say, that at the present prices of the country you vould endeavour to get out of your lease as soon as possible?—Certainly; I gave up one estate, the finest estate in that part of the island, in the Southern District; I gave that up last year. It was an exceedingly productive estate while we had the people under our command ; but for a series of years I lost so much money by it, that as soon as the lease was expired I gave it up. 8128. Is the estate abandoned now?—No, it is in the hands of the heirs of Mr. Shaw. I can refer to the operation upon that estate. The average aggregate expenses for four years of slavery were 1,195 l. 9 s. 1 d., making sugar at 4s. 10d. a cwt.; the expenses for the last half year, when the lease expired, were 245.11 d. The whole of this property was regularly ploughed; the hoe was only employed upon it for the purpose of weeding and planting; and we had a large herd of oxen. 8129. Have you adopted, do you think, all the improvements that the cultivation of a sugar estate is capable of?—As far as they have been suggested to us; we have tried many things which have not succeeded, such as implements for taking out the switch grass. The character of the land is not such as that the instruments made in this country for the land of this country will answer; and then when they make them exceedingly strong, they are very apt to be too powerful for the strength of the cattle to draw; but as far as the plough goes, we plough much as they do in this country; and it may give the Committee an idea what the reduction in wages effects if I tell them what a ploughman gets, and what he is expected to do. 8130. Is he a white ploughman?—No, a black ploughman; we had white men, in the first instance, to teach them ; a ploughman on the light part of the island, under the new order, has 10 d. a day, and the driver 8d. On the south side, where the land is much more heavy, it is Is. for a ploughman, and he is expected to close plough half an acre in the day in the heavy land, and twothirds of an acre in the light; banking is for a day's work to be one acre in unploughed land, or one and a quarter acre when ploughed. 8131. What had such a man before the reduction?—I fancy it was Is. 6 d. or 2 s. 8132. If this reduction can be maintained, surely it, will go far to reduce the cost to what it was before ?—It. will reduce the cost considerably. 8133. Have you any apprehension that it will not be maintained?—Having seen that formerly we began well, and that for two years our operations were carried on at- a rate something less than this, and yet that there was a gradual increase of expense, I am fearful as to the result. The negro, as he became more accustomed to his freedom, was less willing to devote himself to work, he hecame less patient of a servile state, and was more desirous of independence, and there was an apparent anxiety on the part of the official authorities to get the negroes from what they said was too much observation and control. In M M 0.32. fact,

663 F. Shand, Esq. 9 March 1848.

266

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

fact, it was said by a governor that we had, that they never would be free till thev were off the estates. 9 March 1848. 8134. What governor was that?—Sir William Colebrooke ; he was of opinion that they would never be free and independent to make bargains as free labourers till they were off the estates. 8135. Did he make a public declaration of that?—He advocated the establishment of those negro villages which have been mentioned. I cannot agree with Mr. Tollemache, that they have been at all productive of benefit to the country. I think that they have removed the people much further from their work; and instead of being under contract, which I think is absolutely necessary, for I think it is absolutely necessary that we should have a contract law, which should be observed; at present they rove about: you have this set of men this week, and another set of men another week; there are what are called " task gangs" going about to see where they can get most money ; they support one another: of course their going would leave an estate in difficulties, and then when they get it into difficulties they make their own price. Our contract law which we first had bound them for a year. The prima facie evidence of a contract was that they received a week's wages, or that they occupied a house for a week ; but now by living in those independent villages, they do not occupy a house upon your estate, and they take care not to work for a week, consequently they only receive a day's pay on contract work which does not extend to a week. 8136. Was your contract only from week to week ?—It was yearly, subject to a month's notice; but to establish that contract, they must receive a week's wages or occupy a house upon the estate. For the four last years of slavery we had laid out considerable sums of money, which added to the costs upon the estate, in order to improve the residences of the negroes, and to make them as comfortable as possible, and that they should find themselves at home when they became free. 8137. Can you suggest any improvement as regards the hiring of labourers? —I think we ought to have a law which would assure us of the work of the labourers; that we should hire labourers for a year; that there should be a hiring time (say, for instance, the 1st of January), and that the mode of hiring them should be simple, not clogged with many conditions, which require us to go before a magistrate and observe a great many formalities. I think the contract law should be simplified as much as possible; that there should be a certain time of the year when they should be hired, and that they should be your labourers for a year. 8138. Have you any complaints to make of the conduct of the stipendiary magistrates?—We had no stipendiary magistracy in the first instance; and though I can say nothing against the gentlemen we have there now, who are natives of the island, there was always, perhaps, a natural leaning on the part of the authorities to the negroes, from an apprehension that they were the parties who were likely to be oppressed. 8139. But, practically, the planter has been oppressed by the negro?—Quite so; he has quite changed places with the negro the last few years. 8140. The negro is the master of the planter?—Quite so. 8141. Have you any idea that by an immigration of labourers you would be benefited ?—I believe the feeling of the negroes was so excited last year, that if there hand not been imported nearly 1,000 people from Madeira, we should not have got the crop off at all. They just came at a time when the gentlemen on the estate said the negroes were jeering them, and looking at the crop and saying, in effect, that the planters could only have it oft' at their (the labourers') own price. I do not think, however, that those people who have been brought in were calculated immediately to reduce the wages, because their own wages are high. You could not get Madeira people to go for less than 1 s. a day. 8142. How did that answer, as the negroes were working at 10 d. a day before ?—They got 1 s. a clay, I should say. 8143. The importation of those 1,000 people from Madeira secured the crop last year?—Yes ; it was, with some exceptions, a very large crop. It was got in in very good time, and it gave us an opportunity of preparing our crop for the succeeding year. There is nothing more requisite than that you should have all your land prepared in time for the succeeding season. 8144. When you say you imported 1,000 labourers, do you mean for your own use?—Yes; but I should observe, the people were in families, men, women, and children, and therefore not all workers. 8145. You F. Shand, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

267

8145. You are only speaking of your own estate?—We took them for our connexions. I am the consignee of 32 other estates in the island. 8146. How many estates are therein the island?—One hundred and fiftythree, I think, but not more than 145 are now in cultivation. 8147. Then you are the consignee of nearly one-third of the island ?—I think I am. At present we have 14 estates under lease to us, or our own property. 8148. You found that the immigration of Madeira people answered perfectly? —Yes. I was in Antigua in 1846 ; I found the people perfectly good tempered ; they used to laugh, and when you said you would not give them the price they named for weeding the canes, they would say, " The weeds grow, Massa," and I was obliged to say to them, " If you put me in such a condition as to oblige me to give such a rate of wages, I shall abandon the cultivation." The effect upon the crop of 1846 was considerable, in consequence of my having had to carry on the cultivation of particular estates to a certain point, and then being obliged to abandon it, because I could not get people to carry it on at anything like a reasonable price. 8149. Do you feel yourselves under any obnoxious restrictions against the immigration of labourers ?—The terms on which you might introduce labourers hitherto, except from Madeira, have been very severe, and very expensive; the distance from which you have to bring them, the state in which you find them, and the short time for which you could retain them, laid us under expenses which I do not think we could bear; at least I do not think the want of labourers in Antigua was sufficiently urgent as to make us go to that great distance for them, and to encounter so large an expense. 8150. You are under no such obligations with respect to the Madeira people? —We contracted with them for two years. 8151. Have they done very well?—Yes; they have been a little impatient once or twice. There was one little difficulty which will always attend the introduction of strangers, the language was not understood, and we were obliged to have interpreters, which added t,o the cost. 8152. The Antigua people speak English?—Yes. 8153. Do the Madeira people speak Portuguese?—Yes, a kind of patois. 8154. The difficulty was soon got over probably ?—I do not hear them complain of it now. 8155. At what expense were you able to import those men?—One of our ships going out called at Madeira, and carried them at a very low price; it did not cost us more than three or four pounds a head all round. 8156. Had you to pay any export duty?—Some two or three dollars a head. We put provisions on board in Liverpool, so that the expense was not great; it did not put the vessels much out of their voyage. 8157. Altogether you imported them at an expense of 3 l. 10s. probably?— About 51, it cost us to land them; we were obliged to have a doctor, and so on. We sent four vessels there before we found them in a humour for going. By the last accounts we had there were several desirous of going without any contract at all. There were parties in Antigua desirous of having some, but who declined them under present circumstances, not wishing to bind themselves by a contract. We had a letter the other day which said, that a ship coming immediately would find a large number of persons willing to go without any contract. 8138. They are satisfied with Is. a day, are they?—They are; but they had rations in addition for the first six months. 8159. What do you imagine are the common wages to be got in Madeira ?— Never more than about sixpence or eightpence. 8160. You do not find that the health of those Madeira people has suffered? —The cause of their emigrating was the starved condition of the population of Madeira. When we took them first they were subject to dysentery; they suffered from it on board ship; but we did not lose a single person upon the passage. 8161. You are not subject to any restrictions, as regards the importation of Madeira people?—No, not at present. 8162. Are you as regards Maltese?—I am not quite sure. I have seen the Maltese in Demerara, but I do not much like them. 8163. Has not the Portuguese government stopped the immigration?— Within the last ten days I had a letter, which stated that there were parties quite ready to go ?—I believe the fact is they will sell anything. 8164. If you were permitted free access to the coast of Africa, do you think 0 32. you M M 2

665 F. Shand, Esq. 2 March 1848.

268

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

F. Shand, Esq.

you could supply yourself with labourers there?—I can only take the information that is given by others ; but I think, if we had them, the difficulties of the 9 March 1848. planter would be very great. If you got a number of Africans whose language you did not understand, whom you must educate, whom you must address through their reason, because you are not to be allowed to coerce them, I think you would find the expense would be very great; especially as the great inducement of the emissaries that have gone to them has been the high rate of wages which they have been getting, which we cannot afford now. I think Lord Grey, in his despatch, mentioned certain men that were carrying home hundreds of pounds which they had realized. That was the most fatal thing possible to us. In fact, the negroes have put all our compensation into their own pockets, or rather have passed it through their pockets to the Americans. I believe the Americans are the depositaries of the whole; they take nothing from us in payment but dollars, consequently they carry away our dollars, and we are in considerable difficulties from the want of currency. I have sent out about 20,00 l. in silver since the commencement of freedom, and the last account I had was that there was the greatest possible difficulty in finding change to pay the people. 8165. There is a considerable drain to the United States, is there?—Yes; they sell their cargoes to us, take our dollars and our silver, and go to Cuba and purchase their sugar there with our money, to take to the United States. 8166. You do not apprehend that Mr. Gladstone's Bill was of that advantage to the British colonists that was expected from the opening of the trade to the United States?—In effect it did not operate in any such way; I think the price of everything has been quite as dear to us since that measure as before. 8167. Can you furnish an account to the Committee of the comparative prices of lumber and supplies before and after the passing of that measure ?—The fact is that parties become so poor from various circumstances that they could not keep stocks; the last account I have was that the price of staves was 50 dollars a thousand. 8168. What did you use to pay to the Canadas for staves ?—I do not think we were very sensible of any advantage from any change of that kind. 8169. Great expectations were formed?—Yes; but never realized. 8170. In 1832, a great stress was laid upon a change in the law of that nature ?—I could not at this moment say what the effect was, without looking more particularly into the transactions. 8171. Will you furnish the Committee with a statement showing what the advantages resulting to you in point of price have been on the one hand, and what the disadvantages, on the other ?—The following statement will show. Prices Paid for

Y E A R S.

taves and

Red Oak Staves.

umber in Antigua, during the last Seventeen Years. Spruce Lumber.

White Pine Lumber.

Pitch Pine.

Cyprus Shinglis.

Cedar Shingles.

p' 1,000 ft. p' 1,000 ft. p' 1,000ft. p' 1,000 ft. p' 1,000ft. p. 1,000ft. $$ $ f $$ $ $ 1830-31 1831-32 1832-33 1833-34 1834-35 1835-36 1836-37 1837-38 1838-39 1839-40 1840-41 1841-42 1842-43 1843-44 1844-45 1845-46 1846-47

33 47 44 88 39 38 30 40 40 35

to 40 to 50 to 50 to 41 1/2 to 44 to 40 to 40 to 50 to 55 to 40 40 40 to 45 38 to 40 40 36 to 40 40 38

25 to 28 30 25 24 to 26 1/2 22 to 25 22 24 22 23 to 24 22 to 28 22 to 28 22 20 to 22 22 22 to 28 27 to 28 24 to 25

33 to 35 35 to 40 25 to 34 28 28 23 30 23 to 28 24 to 26 24 to 30 25 to 30 25 to 33 25 to 28 22 to 30 22 to 27 28 to 30 26 to 30

44 1/2 50 40 to 50 50 30 to 40 30 -

45 40 40 37 28 35 33

to 50 to 50 to 45 to 40 to 35 to 42 to 37 35 to 40 30

10 —

—

12 12

9 to 10 8 5

—

43 to 7 1/2

10 10 to 11

7 1/2 —

0 to 7

—

4 1/2

—

6 5 to 8 G

7 to 10

8172. I suppose, as long as you obtained your supplies from the British Canadas, they took your produce in exchange —Yes ; they took our rum and molasses. 8173. Did

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

269

667

8173. Did they take rum and molasses to the extent of the lumber and pro- F. Shand, Esq. visions which they supplied you with?—More or less; and they would take a bill of exchange, which Americans will not. When I speak of the effect of 9 March 1848. the change of the law, I am only speaking of Antigua, which is not a sufficient field perhaps to exhibit the effect of such changes. 8174. Are you acquainted with the trade of the other islands?—Not sufficiently to speak of them. I have been in Demerara. 8175. Are you of opinion that the abolition of the Navigation Laws would be of any advantage to the island of Antigua?—Not any whatever. The freights are 4 s., but we have so large an interest in the island that it is not our interest to swell our charges in any way; and we take out stores freight free, which is tantamount to a deduction from the freight of 1 s. We say this to parties who are not regular shippers : " We have a return ship ; we will charge you the out freight, and when you ship your produce we will give you credit to the amount of 1 s. a hundredweighttherefore the freight of all the estates with which we are connected is only 3 s. in fact. 8176. In point of fact, it is a freight of 4 s. for the freight both ways ?—Yes : in case of steam-engines, where a large quantity of coals is required, they would have to pay more than the value of the coals in freight; but we do not charge them any freight in such a case. 8177. Supposing the West Indies were to have their will, and to get the Navigation Laws repealed, if it did lower freights at all, would not it lower the freights to their rivals in Cuba and the Brazils just as much as to themselves ? —Unquestionably; any advantage that the British West Indies would derive would be of equal benefit to Cuba, or perhaps something more ; because they would have the same advantage in sending their produce in those foreign vessels at a cheaper rate. 81 78. Why would they derive any more advantage than you would ?—Parties would be oftener disappointed at securing a load at our small islands. Last year, not being able to calculate what the crop would exactly be, I sent out a ship too many ; she did not get a load, and she had to run to New Orleans, where she did not pay her expenses. At the same time when J was charging that 4 l. a ton, I could have got 6 l. elsewhere. 8179. Where could you get 61. ?—At different places, where they were very anxious to ship their produce. 8180. Their sugar?—Yes. 8181. Could you have got 6l. at Cuba, or Porto Rico, last year ?—I could have got considerably more than 4 I. In 1834, so great was our apprehension of the effect of emancipation, that we saw it was necessary to reduce every possible expense; our freight had previously been 5.v., it was reduced then to 45.; and then the charges on produce at home underwent a revision : I heard those charges spoken of as 3s.; I do not think ours much exceeded 2 s. 6 d. 8182. You do not think sugar is to be grown now at so low a rate as 15s. a cwt. in Antigua, with all the improvements which can be made ?—If you can keep down the wages to 6 d. you may also be able to reduce all the other expenses, because every other expense seems to grow out of the increase of wages. The wages of the seamen, or the men who navigate the droghers about the island, were exceedingly extravagant. 8183. Are they blacks?—Yes; we have sent out white men in order to ensure the carriage of sugar, but the cost is very considerable of sending out white seamen, keeping them for a season and bringing them home. 8184. The drogherage is a charge against the ship?—It is. 8185. What does the drogherage amount to ?—To pretty nearly 6 d. a cwt. 8186. There is little or no drogherage in Cuba or Porto Rico, is there ?—I believe not any at all. 8187. Porto Rico has 14 ports ?—J. believe they go from place to place, and take it up themselves. 8188. Therefore that 6d. is to be deducted, in any fair comparison ?—Yes, and there is another thing; we pay a tonnage duty in the British West Indies. I have five estates in Montserrat, to which I have to send down those droghers, and they come up with a small load, for which the ships have to pay a heavy freight; whereas, if 1 could just drop down without paying the tonnage duty, I should prefer doing so. I applied some time ago for that permission, and was refused; they said they could not allow the payment of tonnage duty at Antigua to answer for Montserrat as well. MM 3 8189. 80

270 F. Shand, Esq. 9 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8189. So that having to take in half a cargo at Antigua, and the rest at Montserrat, you pay a double tonnage duty?—Yes. I bring up 100 hogsheads from Montserrat, upon which I have to pay for drogherage and various charges; whereas my ship could take them in in a very short time, if I were permitted to do so. 8190. The tonnage is upon the tonnage of the whole ship?—Yes, Is. (id. a ton upon the whole tonnage of the ship; and the new tonnage has made a considerable addition to that charge. 8191. Is there any tonnage duty in Cuba or Porto Rico?—That I do not know. 8192. In Cuba, being a large island, there would at any rate be only one tonnage duty, instead of two?—Of course. 8193. Supposing the West Indians, who are sanguine that the repeal of the Navigation Laws will reduce the price of freight, were to have those expectations realized?—I do not think that it is fair to say they are sanguine. I think, in their desperation, they have put into their petition everything they could, and that among the rest. In the petition from Antigua they ask for it in a very peculiar way : they say they have always looked upon the Navigation Laws as of the highest importance to themselves and the mother country, but as they have been mistaken in so many things, they fancy they must be so in that. 8194. You have already stated that the repeal of the Navigation Laws, if it did anybody any good, must do the Cubans and the Brazilians as much good as the West Indians. Considering that the freight from the East Indies, and from Java, Manilla, and China, is double the freight from the West Indian islands, if the effect of the repeal of the Navigation Laws were to reduce the price of freight, if it saved 6d. to the West Indians, would not it save Is. to their rivals in the East?—I should consider it would go on pro rata. 8195. Then the West Indians would be cutting their own throats, to use a familiar phrase, if they were to succeed in repealing the Navigation Laws, and to reduce freights generally thereby ?—That is my opinion. 8196. It is not a question of getting their sugar home ad. a cwt. cheaper, but the getting it home cheaper than those who compete with them ?—Of course it is. Unless the repeal of the Navigation Laws would give them an advantage in that respect, they would derive none at all. 8197. It would be of no use to them to get their sugar brought home 6d. a cwt. cheaper, if the Bengal people, the Mauritius people, the Manilla, Java, and China people got theirs brought home 1 . a cwt. cheaper?—Certainly not. 8198. Are there any suggestions which you can make to the Committee of any improvements which you think could be made for the benefit of the West Indies?—I think it is quite reasonable that every facility should be given to the British West Indies; but I think when you introduce labourers, unless you can have them under proper moral discipline, and keep them socially in order, you will do very little good from adding to a roving population. The want of a contract law, and the want of an annual hiring, which would give the people settled habits, is extremely injurious to the island; it induces them to squat; it induces them to set themselves down in parts of the island the most remote from their work ; and being so very large a proportion of the population, it is impossible for you to watch them ; they cut your wood and make charcoal of it; they cut the wood and sell it for ship timber and boat timber. I have a large tract of wood in the neighbourhood of an estate ; 1 could not pretend to say that , I could watch it; if I were to stop a man evidently bringing the product of his labour from that place, and I were obliged to prove it were really mine, I could not do it. If he is not to be made to show that he got it honestly, there can be no checking a case of that kind. I do not charge the negroes of Antigua with particular dishonesty ; they only just pursue the common course of people left to themselves; but I do think if a little stricter and sterner discipline were exercised over them in the house of correction when they are committed there, itwould be very desirable. Young negroes go round and steal one another's fowls, and pick up everything they can appropriate to themselves, and when they arcsent to the house of correction they call it "sitting down" for so long a time. 8199. You would propose that there should be a law of contract?—1 think there ought to be a law enabling parties to enter into annual contracts. 8200. Is there a Legislative Assembly in Antigua ?—Yes. We passed such a law : as long as the parties remained in possession of a house, and, in fact, very few of them moved for a long time, there was no necessity for it. The contract law

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 271 law as it then existed spoke for itself, and effected the object in view. There was also a law which imposed a fine upon any party attempting to entice a labourer away. One great evil we suffered from after that time was the neighbouring island of Trinidad and the colony of Demerara sending people to entice and carry away our people. 8201. Are you interfered with by the Colonial Office and prevented from enacting laws for protecting yourselves?—Various laws which we deemed to be important, as having been applicable to the circumstances which we wished to regulate, having been refused. I suppose they did not think them technical enough. On the other hand, we were getting a large bulky volume of English law, which we did not want, relating to our game and to our fish-ponds, or to our gate-posts, and a great many things which were of no use to us. 8202. When did this take place ?—Some years ago. 8203. Can you recollect in what year it was ?—No. We passed our laws in the first instance, imagining that we were undergoing a great experiment which it required us to watch, and to make laws or regulations for, as changes took place. We passed laws for three years, in order that we might take advantage of our experience to alter them at the end of that period. Not being drawn by lawyers, they were not very well drawn possibly, but they answered our purpose very well. 8204. What laws were they ?—Police Acts and Industrial Laws to prevent trespass; they gave a more summary remedy in case of trespass or petty crimes. 8205. Do you recollect what Governor you had at the time ?—Sir Evan Macgregor. 8206. Taking into consideration the rate of reduction of the price of labour, and assuming that it can be maintained, with what protection do you think the island of Antigua generally will be retained under cultivation ?—I should say that Mr. Tollemache speaks of a much less rate than I should expect would answer; I do not think we could do with less than 10s. Mr. Tollemache was speaking of his own estates, which were above the standard. If you go to estates of inferior quality and take an average, they could not live, when his estates may do very well. Mr. Tollemache's estates make very fine sugar; there are many estates which do not; and there are many estates which are much more difficult to work. 8207. Do you apprehend, if the price continues what it is now, a great portion of the estates will be thrown out of cultivation ?—If they cannot reduce their rates very considerably. 8208. Lower than 6 c?.?—I do not think they can go lower than 6 d.; I do not think it would be reasonable to reduce wages to a less sum than that. 8209. Do you think that, even at 6 d., they could with a 6 s. duty go on?— No; as far as we have an opportunity of judging, I do not know that we can tell what Cuba can do. I have here an advice of the 8th of January, from Cuba. Messrs. Drake write to us: " The production has far exceeded that of any previous year, and the prices obtained by planters have been so highly remunerative that they are able to adopt every means for the extension of their crops." Picard and Albers write to us on the 27th January ; " The exports last year were 1,027,687 boxes, against 826,133, and 373,102, and 847,707, in 1846, 1845, and 1844. The old sugars have all been disposed of at prices below our quotations of the 10th ultimo. They say, " Muscovadoes have been sold at 4 to 4 1/2 rials, — lis. 3 d. to 11 s. 11 d., but strictly, prime are held at 5 to 6 rials, — 3 s. 8 d. to 16 s." 8210. That has been the past year ?—That is the last account; but they add, "Supplies now, however, are coming in freely, and there is every prospect of an early decline." 8211. Have you any estimate of the coming crop ?—They say, "We therefore believe that our crop will not much exceed that of last year," which was 1,027,687 boxes. I look upon it, if Cuba can only make her sugar as cheaply as we made it for the four years preceding emancipation, they can sell lower than they have sold hitherto; but they will not sell any lower than they can help, of course. 8212. The Committee have heard a great deal of the cheapness and the expedition with which Danish ships make their voyages to Santa Cruz. I believe a voyage to Santa Cruz is considerably shorter than the voyage to Antigua Demerara, and Jamaica ?—It may be shorter ; I do not think it is much shorter - Antigua and Santa Cruz are pretty nearly in the same latitude. 8213. Antigua ships do not come round by the Gulf Stream ? —No we do not 0.32. M M 4 enter

669 F. Shand, Esq. 9 March 1848.

272 F. Shand, Esq. 9 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

enter the Gulf Stream coming to Antigua. I do not think there is a great deal of difference; but I am not acquainted with the voyage. 8214. The voyage from Santa Cruz is a much shorter voyage, is not it, than the voyage to Jamaica, or to British Guiana?—It is a shorter voyage than to British Guiana; because British Guiana is so much further to the southward. 8215. Is not it much shorter than to Jamaica?—You pass Santa Cruz in going to Jamaica. 8216. Is not there this difference, that a Santa Cruz ship can come right away home?—Yes, that is tor the return voyage; for the return voyage it is much shorter, and they have not the dangers to encounter that they have in coming from Jamaica. 8217. The Committee have heard that three Danish ships made a voyage out, and remained at Santa Cruz six days, and came back again with a cargo of sugar in 66 days ; and in the case of others, that they had made three vovages in the year; have you any instances of British ships which have made as quick or even quicker vbyages ?—The first case I put my hand on is a ship which went out in 38 days, and came home in 25, having 646 hogsheads of sugar on board. 8218. Do you know how long she was in the island?—She might have remained there some time. I do not think that is a fair contrast. I have frequently sent a ship not merely to bring cargo home, but I had some particular machinery which I wished to send out, or certain supplies; I must send them to a particular time ; having a vested interest in the island, I must attend to all those things. if I were to run ships without any reference to the general interests I have to attend to, the ships would do the voyage in a much shorter period. 8219. The Santa Cruz ships were said to have been detained only six days, therefore it is a question of a voyage out and back ? —You must look to the drogherage in Antigua ; you have to send round the island for your sugar; in calm weather those little vessels will not move, and they will not move in boisterous weather. 8220. And that is all a charge against the ship?—Yes. 8221. What do you reckon that at?—Sixpence a hundredweight. 8222. Have you any papers to deliver in to the Committee showing the periods in which several of your ships have performed the voyage to Antigua and hack ?— [ The Witness delivered in the following Papers.-] Ship Lydia, 425 Tons, from Liverpool to Antigua and back.

Sailed

Arrived

from Liverpool.

at Antigua.

10 7 15 2.3 3 5 11 17 21 22 3 18 13 20 21

Feb. June March June Jan. June Dec. June Oct. Feb. July Dec. June Feb. May

Days on Passage.

Arrived

Left Antigua.

at Liverpool.

Days on Passage.

Cargo of Sugar.

No. of Days on Voyage.

—

Hlids. 1841 1842 1843 1844 1845

1843

15 3 14 31 5 8 26 17 28 29 8 22 25 29 24

Mar. July April July Feb. July Jan. July Nov. Mar. Aug. Jan. July Mar. June

1841 1842

1844 1846 -

33 26 30 38 33 33 46 30 38 35 35 35 42 37 34

8 12 6 19 20 27 16 1 26 9 9 22 11 15 10

May 1841 Aug. May 1842 Aug. April July April Aug. Dec. May Sept. April Nov. April July

2 14 17 27 31 1 5 8 27 8 11 23 21 15 22

June 1841 Sept. 1842 June Sept. May Sept. June Sept. Jan. 1845 June Oct. May Dec. May Aug. -

525 Average of 15 Passages out

Average of 15 I Passages home -

25 33 42 39 41 36 50 38 32 30 32 31 40 30 43

646 665 671 663 688 651 668 669 664 658 515 670 665 678 653

112 99 99 96 148 88 177 73 98 106 100 156 191 84 93

542

9,804

1,720

653

114 d tys 16 hours-

671 SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

273

Ship Phoenix, 365 Tons, Old Measure. Sailed

Arrived

Days

at Antigua.

Passage.

from Liverpool

1842 1 Mar. 1843 Si Jut 30 Nov. 12 April

1844 1845 1846

2 27 10 8 8 27 1 13 12

1842 1843 1844 1845 -

34 37 40 31 35 32 32 31 35

9 Voyages)

307

May Aug. April Aug. Mar. July Jan. May -

Average

22 10 29 3 9 12 7 21 25

Left

Arrived

Antigua.

at Liverpool.

May Sept. May Sept. May Aug. Feb. June July

1842 1843 1844 1845 -

26 28 3 13 16 2 22 27 31

June Oct. July Oct. June Oct. Mar. July Aug.

Days on Passage.

1842

35 48 35 39 37 51 43 36 37

1843 1844 — 1845 -

361

34 1

Cargo

of Sugar.

Hhds. 602 1/2 603 I 601 J 599 620 600 643 620 623 5,512

No. of Days on Voyage.

—

90 104 124 96 135 100 122 106 146 1,023

612 1

113 days 16 hours.

44 34 35 34 37 41 38 36 31 37

573 564 419 580 564 580 577 553 568 560

101 77 99 134 95 82 111 85 93 103

367

5,538

980

36.17

554

34 49 34 46 42 43 30 47 32 47 35 35

566 574 564 566 560 562 570 560 570 560 564 559

134 106 125 112 134 133 119 107 123 123 94 92

474

6,775

1,402

39 1/2

564

117

32 35 36 46 42 44 40

589 598 001 595 613 589 610

102 110 129 116 126 94 196

275

4,195

873

599

Ship Grace, 344 Tons, Old Measure. 16 May 16 Oct

184 2 3

23 March 1844 23 Jan. ch 1846 29 July

1847

6 20 22 3 7 29 18 25 8 6

June June Nov. May Oct. April April Feb. June Sept.

1842 1843 — 1844 1845 1846 1847 — -

40 35 37 34 45 39 38 33 47 39

10 Voyages)

387

Average

23 Juno 8 July 29 Oct. 5 July 20 Oct. 1 June 23 May 13 Mar. 23 June 3 Oct.

1842 1843 1844 1845 1846 1847 -

6 11 2 8 36 12 30 18 24 9

Aug. Aug. Feb. Aug. Nov. July June April July Nov.

1842 1843 1844 1845 1846 1847 -

38 days 17 hours.

Ship Denison, 325 Tons.

24 May 1842 ne 1843

19Ju

15 June 11 Mar. 1843

1313 July Feb 1844 1844 1845 10 May 1, Mar. J 0 Nov. 1846 11 April July 47

23 27 24 18 8 12 25 19 20

July Mar. Aug. Feb. Juno May Dec. May Aug.

1844 1845 1846 1847 _

36 32 33 34 31 42 47 29 48 45 38 32

1 10 8 14 27 11 1 9 24 25 9 15

April July May Aug. May Sept. April July June Jan. June Sept.

1842 1843 — 1844 1845 1846 1847 -

5 May 28 Aug. 11 June 29 Sept. 8 July 24 Oct. 1 May 25 Aug. 26 July 13 Mar. 14 July 20 Oct.

1842 1843 1844 — 1845 1846 1847 -

447 Averageof,12

Voyages - -

Ship Isabel, 352 Ions.

1843 1844 lilt1845

2 3 12 30 23 9 23

May Sept. April Aug. Feb. July May

1843 1844 1845 _ 1846

42 34 29 34 25 28 31

10 14 5 25 23 9 23

Juno Oct. June Sept. Apr. July May

1843 1844 1845 1846

22 18 21 10 4 13 4

223 Average

Voyages

July Nov. July Nov. .June Sept. Nov.

1843 — 1844 1845 1846

124 5/7

0.32. IN N

8223. Sir

274 F. Shand, Esq. 9 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

E. Buxton.] Do you remember what were the provisions of those 8223. laws regulating labour that you mentioned as so very desirable ?—They were not so much regulating labour, because the Contract Act, which is still in existence, but which does not now operate, from the change of circumstances, is that which more particularly regulates labour. 8224. What were those laws which you mentioned?—They were not particularly respecting Trespass and Police Acts, which prevented depredations and inroads upon property. I had rather refer to them than speak of them without doing so. 8225. The laws regulating free labour are in force at present?—They are in existence, but not in force. By the mode of proceeding on the part of the negro labourer, he evades them. 8226. How does he do so?—If he chose to enter into a regular contract with you before a magistrate, a kind of deed of apprenticeship, he might do so, but he avoids what was accepted as evidence; that is to say, the occupation of a house on the estate, or receiving wages for a week; because he does not complete his work, he only works out a portion of it, or he does not occupy your house. 8227. Do not you think that under any circumstances the blacks would refuse to sign contracts to work for a year?—Probably they would refuse the formality of signing contracts ; but I think if you had verbal hirings, as in this country, it would answer. Our Contract Act gave a month's notice, and I think if there were hiring days fixed, such as certain days early in the year, when you could hire your labour, it would be a great advantage. 8228. Would you oblige them to make contracts ?—You cannot make them enter into contracts. 8229. At present the demand for labour is greater than the supply?—It has been greater than the supply, inasmuch as so large a number have become independent by reason of the high wages they have received; they could almost dictate their own terms to the master, and in fact there is nothing left scarcely but their cupidity to work on. 8230. Do you think that any law of this kind would make the supply equal to the demand ?—I do not know that it would make the supply equal to the demand, but it would regulate the matter very much; an estate would not then have to enter upon work which could not be carried out. 8231. What would be the use of a law regulating contracts, unless the people were willing to enter into them?—There would have been less unwillingness if there had not been almost a decided objection expressed by the official authority. I always considered that Sir William Colebrooke's sentiments upon that subject weighed very much with them, and introduced a new order of feeling among the negroes. 8232. The Committee wish to know how they can remedy that now; would you recommend that such laws as those should be established at present?— I think such laws as the legislature of the island feel would be available and desirable should be sanctioned at home. 8233. Do you think that the Colonial Office at home ought to have no judgment in the matter?—I do not mean to say that they ought not to have any judgment in the matter, but I think they ought to consider a little more practically the working of the thing than they have done. 8234. Do not you think it is possible that in some of those colonies the colonial legislature might pass laws that would be beneficial laws to the planter, but very unfair to the labourer?—To err is human; therefore we cannot say that they might not make a mistake. I would not say that everything that passed with the local legislature should be adopted at home; but as the welfare of all classes is involved in the welfare of the island, there should be some attention paid to the terms on which the cultivation can be carried on. 8235. What laws would you enact?—I should endeavour to introduce contract laws. I should vary the terms of the present law, so that a man when he enters upon his labour may understand that he is entering upon the duty for a year; that when he commences to plant my canes, he is to be my servant till those canes are brought to the curing-house. 8236. If the man works for you for a day without any bargain being made at the time, you think he should understand that he must work with you for a year ?—Yes. 8237. Would not that be very disadvantageous to the master often?—There might

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 275

673

might be a month's notice on either side, as there was before; but I do not think F. Shand, Esq. there is any year when you do not require the command of continuous labour on an estate. Where there is that command you can complete your operations, 9 March 1848. and you know what the effect will be; at the present moment we do not know what the effect will be; we may begin work which at a future stage we may be obliged to abandon, or the people may undertake work which they perform so slowly that by the time it is finished you have lost vour opportunity, the season being past. 8238. Would you have it enacted that if there was an arrangement with a labourer, he might work for a less time?—If you have an understanding to that effect, you will be very apt to have no one to work with you except for the shorter time. 8239. Do not you think that it would induce many of those labourers to leave the estate, if they thought that by entering on work for one day they were bound to you for a year ?—I think, even if it were a month, if they understood that they were to continue to work for a month when they entered upon their labour, that would be something ; it would steady and settle their habits. Now, they form themselves into task gangs, going round from place to place, ascertaining where the most wages are to be had. 8240. In fact, they have the command of the labour market at present ?— Very much so, unless you choose to submit to a great sacrifice. 8241. There has been generally a greater demand for labourers than labourers to supply it ?—There has been more demand for labourers than labourers have presented themselves. 8242. Do you think that any law can regulate that?—I think they have got into a roving sort of habit; and by acquiring wages beyond their immediate expenses, they can suspend their labour for a longer period than it is convenient for the estate to do without work. 8243. Would not the effect of having laws of this kind be that many of them would refuse to work altogether ?—I do not think they can do without work altogether, or they would not have accepted this lower rate of wages. 8244. Would you enforce those contracts by any penalties?—Yes, they ought to be enforced by the ordinary penalty of performing their duty or losing their wages. I think that the result of their freedom has been independence, and that they have been too loosely dealt with. 8245. They have behaved as labourers all over the world who had the command of the labour market would have behaved, have not they?—Very much so. 8246. How could that be remedied ?—If they were obliged to work with you for a certain time, having entered upon duty with you, that would be an advantage ; they would thereby acquire certain associations which they now do not. 8247. On many estates they are very settled, are not they ; are not they so on Mr. Tollemache's estate ; they appear there to have worked six days in the week?—Five days in the week was the most they were working when I was last there. 8248. When was that?—In 1846; and we never desired that they should not have half a day to themselves. I should rather think, from the number that I heard mentioned by Mr. Tollemache, thai they do not absolutely live upon bis estate; he may have task gangs that come from a distance to work. 8249. Have you any vagrant laws?—That is a law that they want very much. The people are all vagrants you may say, and wander up and down the country; it is so small a place, that you know everybody and everybody knows you. 8250. Do you imagine, with an importation of labourers, that you could compete with Cuba ?—I should think not. 82,51. Do you think, under any circumstances, that free labour in the West Indies could compete with slave labour supplied by the slave trade ?—With labour supplied by the slave trade, I do not think they can, because you can put slaves upon a minimum allowance, and you cannot do so with free labourers; besides that, a man in Antigua can do no more than a man's work anywhere ; especially if a man is to support, his family, so that his wife and children shall not work ; in Cuba they have neither women or children to take care of. 8252. Mr. Tollemache said that the women worked in Antigua? Yes, they will do as much work as men ; on the Harts and Royals estates the women, in 1835, worked so hard that no stranger could work with them. N N 2 0.32. 8253. MR.

276

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8253. Mr. Mi/es.\ Are you aware that such a custom as Sir Edward Buxton lias been asking you about prevails in St. Vincent's ?—I do not know that it is so ; 9 March 1848. I have always understood that the contract law of St. Vincent's is better than that which vve have in Antigua. 8254. You were asked about tonnage duties; for what reason are they levied? — They are levied to pay the customs, by an Imperial Act. 8255. Specially for customs?—Specially, I think, to support the customs establishment. 8256. Out of the number of estates, which you state as being 50, which you are more or less interested in, if slave produce shall be admitted at the same rate of duty as your own, how many should you think will be continued in cultivation? ■—Those that can live will be maintained ; but I should think one-third of the estates may as well go out of cultivation at once. 8257. Have you already protested bills?—We have protested a great many bills; where they have shown a disposition to bring matters into order by this reduction of expenses, I l ave endeavoured to pay all the bills I can, that I may not add to their difficulties by protests where I can avoid it. 8258. What effect do you think it would have upon the colony when those bills are returned ?—They have known the fate of the bills protested for non-acceptance, and that is the first thing; every week you have to take your money to your estate, and when they could not pass their bills at the hankers they could not get money ; that was the first basis of this operation. My partner said, " If you will come to reason and submit to that reduction of expense which is likely to enable us to live through this, I will endeavour to find you the money, or as much as you require for the payment of your labourers." 8259. Are estates planted for the next year's crop in Antigua?—I believe we have done everything hitherto, except in some few cases; I believe there are some estates abandoned ; but, generally speaking, we have maintained cultivation so far. 8260. Are the taxes heavy in Antigua?—The earthquake put us under very heavy taxes, in order to repair and rebuild the churches ; and the Cathedral of Antigua has cost a very large sum. I understand that the tax on land in the parish of St. John's will be 3 s. an acre this year. 8261. Waste and cultivated ?—Yes, just as it is on record. 8262. Do you think that a reduction may be effected in this particular ?—I think it necessarily must; the building being finished, the money will not again be required. 8263. Do you think it would have any good effect upon the negroes if they found that all the principal people in the island submitted to a reduction in their salaries?—My own attorney wrote to say that he was ready to submit to 25 per cent, being taken off' his commission ; I took off' 20 per cent, last year; my instructions are to make reductions generally. 8264. Do you think it would have any effect if the expenses of the Government were reduced ?—The Governor is paid by this country, and not by the island ; we have had lately some additional charges by the appointment of a chief justice, and the attorney-general gets a salary, and there are two stipendiary magistrates, which I believe makes 4,000 l. or 5,000 l. a year. I think the reduction should go through every department. 8265. You think they could well afford some reduction ?—Of course it is incumbent upon them to submit to a reduction. 8266. Mr. Moffatt.] You stated that in the three years prior to emancipation the production of your sugar on the average cost 7 5. 11 d. per cwt. ?—Upon one of the five estates it cost 7 s. Mil.-, for the four years prior to emancipation the average cost was less than 8 s. per cwt. 8267. You further stated that for the first year of emancipation the average cost for the same properties was 135. 7 d. per cwt.?—That was upon two of those properties. 8268. Did the others vary from that?—Yes, Fitches Creek was only 75. 7 d. the first year, and only 7 s. 5 d. the second year of freedom. I found the estate in a very dilapidated state, but the negroes having been made comfortable upon the estate, settled down, and worked almost as well, or quite as well as previously, for a couple of years. 8269. In the next year the cost of production of sugar rose from an average of about 125. up to 32 s.?—It would depend entirely upon the amount of

F. Shand, Esq.

production,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

277

675 production, and that amount of production did not depend upon the character of the labour of the people so much as on the season. For the year 1835 the labourers' wages on the Fitches Creek estate were 465 I. 12 s. 2d. 8270. Can you tell the rate per man?—The rate was about 5 d. per day. In 1836, the amount spent on wages was 661 I. 13 s. 10 d. 8271. Can you furnish the Committee with a statement showing the average cost of sugar per cwt. produced on the estates under your charge, in the three years prior to emancipation ; the cost of labour on the same estates in each subsequent year, and the cost of production of the sugar per cwt.?—[The Witness delivered in the same, which is as follows:] TOTAL

Cost for Three Years prior to Emancipation. s.

1832 1833 1834

TOTAL

-114 per cwt. 81 „ 52 „

Cost for each subsequent Year.

—

Wages, per Cwt.

...

Total Cost, per Cwt.

£. s. d.

- 3 10 - 5 11 - 10 7 - 4 6 - 4 - 7 3 - 10 1 - 12 5 - 8 11 - 11 1 - 11 5 1-9 - 9 6

- 8 7 - 16 2 19 1 - 7 8 - 7 11 - 15 1 - 12 6 - 15 9 - 15 10 13 1 - 19 7 1 15 6 - 17 11

£. s.

1835 1836 1837 1838 1839 1840 1841 1842 1843 1844 1845 1846 1847

8272. You estimate the cost of production of your sugar to have been largely increased by the alteration from slave to free labour?—Yes ; it has been trebled. 8273. You state that at the present time the cost of the production of sugar in the years 1846-7, upon the average of your estates, was 15 . 6 d. per cwt.?— That is upon one set of estates ; upon one estate it only cost as.: the year before it cost 315. 6d. 8274. Fifteen shillings and sixpence would about represent the average of your estates, would not it?—Perhaps it might of the crop. 8275. You have given in evidence the cost per cwt. of your production?—Yes, on a particular estate. 8276. Do you think 15s. 6d. does represent a fair average?—I should think 18 s. would be more like it. 8277. What have been the prices you have realized upon the crop of 1847?— I sold sugar at from 34s. to 43s. ; 38s. or 39s. was about the price. 8278. That is 25s. in bond?—Yes. 8279. lias die hulk of the crop of 1847 sold for that?—It did not begin to arrive till after April. 8280. It appears from that statement that upon the average a mercantile profit has been realized upon the import of sugar from Antigua ?—I can speak from actual knowledge that there are not above five or six of the estates which are on die right side of the books at this moment. 8281. You gave in details of the estates called Harts and Royals; how many men were employed upon those estates?—I cannot tell. 8282. Do you know what quantity of sugar has been produced ?—They produced last year the largest crop ever made; there were 170 hogsheads of sugar in the curing-house. 8283. What has been the extreme fluctuation in your labour since 1834? It has gone on decreasing till I believe it is about 6 d., and I suppose it has been about 2 s. a day. N N 3 8284. You

F. Shand, Esq. 9 March 1848.

278

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8284. Your firm, you say, imported 1,000 labourers from Madeira?—Yes, nearly 1,000 people in families. 9 March 1848. 8285. To those labourers you were under contract to give 1 s. a clay ?—Yes. 8286. At whose cost were those labourers imported ?—Chiefly at our own cost; those of our connexions who took any of them paid a corresponding portion of the cost. 8287. What was the cost per man?—I think about 51. 8288. Has any contract been made with those labourers to re-convey them to Madeira?—No. " 8289. A contract was entered into with them to employ them at the rate of 1 s. per day ?—Yes, with nine hours' labour. 8290. Do you find their labour efficient?—Yes. 8291. More efficient than that of the aborigines?—More efficient than they were working. 8292. Is there much rum made in Antigua?—Not much. 8293. Is there any grievance as regards the excise laws upon rum ?—I believe not. 8294. Is there any excise duty upon rum ?—There is an island duty. 8295. The tax is not charged upon the still ?—No, it is paid by the seller of the rum. 8296. You stated in answer to a question by the Chairman, that any repeal of the Navigation Laws would be equally beneficial to you and to the producer in Cuba ? —It would be equally beneficial to Cuba as it would be to us. 8297. Are you aware that Cuba has the privilege of sending its sugar to this country under the Spanish flag, as well as under the English flag?—Yes. 8298. You have not an equal advantage in Antigua ?—It would be no advantage to us. 8299. Not if the Spaniard were willing to take sugar cheaper ?—I do not think he could take it cheaper. 8300. Your idea is that the freights are as low as they can be made by cornpetition ?—For me to protect my vested interests and have a supply of vessels at the proper time, and give them their supplies and their stores at the proper time, I do not think it could be done cheaper than I do it myself. 8301. Are you a considerable shipowner?—I have five or six ships. 8302. Do you not think that the Cuban, in being able to bring his sugar under his own flag, or any other, has an advantage?—The last freights from Cuba were 31, or 3/. 5s. That would be no advantage to my connexions in Antigua, inasmuch as I am already doing it at 3 I., because I take out their stores, which is equal to a reduction upon the home freight. I make the two passages, that is, I carry for them both ways, at 4 S. 8303. Assuming that the Cuban has the advantage of the competition for freight between the Spanish flag and the English flag, is not that a benefit to him ?—I do not think it is; I think competition from other causes has been quite as great, but particularly to Antigua, because at Antigua we cannot depend upon chance ships. 8304. Not under the operation of the present laws?—I do not think, whatever the laws might be, it would make any difference to me. 8305. You expressed an opinion that Cuba would sell its sugar cheaper than we could ; have you any practical knowledge of the cost of production in Cuba? —I only assume that they could produce as cheaply by their slaves as we once could by ours, or even more cheaply, because they are not incumbered as we were at the close of slavery by old people, women, and children. 8306. You have no practical knowledge of what the actual cost of production is in Cuba ?—The prices they have obtained, they say, have been highly beneficial to them, and they offer to sell at from 11 A. to 16 s., and the prices were declining. I also believe, when they come to compete, when there is an excess of quantity in the market, that as the cheapest will go into the market at the lowest rate, they will be able to undersell us, because they have greater power of pressure upon their labourers than we have. 8307. Your impression being that slave labour is cheaper than free labour at 6 d. per diem ?—I think so. 8308. Chairman.] With respect to the Cuban carrying trade, the fact is, that practically the carrying trade of Cuba and the carrying trade of Brazil is now a close trade, or nearly so, for British ships; five sixths of the freight of the one country.

F. Shand, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

279

country, and about six-sevenths of the freight of the other, is now carried in British ships, so that virtually the repeal of the Navigation Laws would have the same effect in cheapening freight between Cuba and Great Britain, and Brazil and Great Britain, as it would have in cheapening freights between Antigua or Jamaica and Great Britain ?— Quite so. I think that is the natural consequence. I do not see any other consequence.

677 E. Shand, Esq. 9 March 1848.

William, Imrie, Esq., called in ; and Examined. 8309. Chairman.'] YOU are a very large shipowner, residing at Liverpool?—I am, as well as a shipbroker. 8310. And have very large transactions in freights?—Yes. 8311. The questions that I am about to ask you will relate exclusively to freights, and the bearing that a repeal of the Navigation Laws would have, especially upon British West Indian interests desirous of sending sugar to England ; can you give the Committee any statement of the comparative freights from Cuba and Brazil to England, and from the different British colonies to England ?—I will put it in two ways : first, the rate at which vessels can be talon for a voyage is the more legitimate mode of ascertaining what is the difference. Since 1832, with the exception of last year, the freight of sugar from the Leeward Islands was 3 s. 6 d. per cwt., carrying a cargo out for the planters free of freight. 8312. What do you consider to be the value of that free freight outwards to the planter ?—From at least 6 d. to 9 d. per cwt., according to circumstances. 8313. Practically that is equivalent from 2 s. 9 d. to 3 s. borne ?—Yes. I find that in 1843 the average freight from Demerara for sugar was 2 s. 5 d. per cwt.; for 1844, 2 s. 6d.; for 1845, 2 s. 7 d.; for 1846, 2 s. 5 d.; for 1847, 3 s. 2d. In chartering shifts out and home, 1847, the rate was 1 s. per cwt. more than in previous years, or at the present time ; that I have from various parties. As regards Jamaica I have estimated 6 d. per cwt. in addition to that; that is to say, from 3s. 9 d. to 4 s. out and home. 8314. Is that on account of drogherage ?—No ; the ships being cleared free of drogherage in Jamaica, it is on account of the difference in the length of the voyage. 8315. When the drogherage is charged against the ship, how much more is it?—To the north, where the drogherage is very high, perhaps as much as 9 d. additional, and on the south side it varies; at Kingston there is only lighterage, which the ship pays out of the 3 s. 9 d. The freights to Porto Rico, and Santa Cruz, and Antigua, are the same as to Demerara. I do not think any foreign ship could be got under those rates of freight; but there are so few offer for a West Indian voyage, that I could not speak certainly to the point. 8316. In Danish ships for Santa Cruz, and Spanish for Porto Rico and Cuba, what are the freights ?—I have only known of British vessels being taken up for those voyages. Spanish vessels generally go with an outward cargo; they take large outward freights to Cuba, or to Porto Rico, to the disadvantage of the British shipowner, in consequence of the protecting duties in favour of the Spanish flag, which extends also to Manilla. 8317. Can you give the freights to Manilla ?—Freights home from Manilla are 4 l. 10S. by the last accounts, and I think that is about the rate at which vessels could be chartered home. 8318. Are the freights the same on Spanish and British shins?—They are. 8319. What proportion of the sugar is imported in the Spanish ships, and what in British ships ?—A very small proportion in Spanish ships; they have not much tonnage. They have sufficient to carry a valuable freight from England, but not to carry any large proportion of the produce of Cuba or Manilla. 8320. Is that from being of a different build ?—A number of the ships belonging to Spain are small. 8321. With regard to the capricious freights of this last year, we are told that they have been as high as 61. a ton ?—The freights last year were affected very materially in the month of October by a statement in the " Times" newspaper, that there would be insufficient tonnage to bring the grain that was required for the famine that was staring us in the face ; that induced speculation in the 0.32. N N 4 chartering

W. Imrie, Esq.

280 W. Imrie, Esq. 9 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

chartering of ships to proceed for grain to ail parts of the world, and consequently it withdrew them from the freights they had been accustomed to. 8322. What did the freights rise to in consequence of that?—The freights were exceedingly high in all parts where grain was to be had, from the extreme anxiety to get it to England. I cannot charge my memory exactly with the freights, but I should say from the Black Sea about 25 s. per quarter for wheat; and front American ports, the freights were about 9s. per barrel for flour. 8323. How long did those very high freights endure?—In America they continued for the space of perhaps a couple of months. 8324. That was the full period ?—Front two to three months would be the full period for the excessively high freights, which were acted upon by a speculative demand for the c harter of ships to proceed for grain, looking to the high rates that were current in America ; that produced a re-action in the trade, and flour receded to 1 s. 6d. per barrel in New York; that was about the month of April; vessels that were chartered to proceed there were unable to get cargoes in many instances, and they proceeded to Canadian ports for timber, or any other cargo they could get. 8325. From the West Indies?—No, that is not the voyage they would make; some remain till their lay days expired, afterwards receiving the current rate of the day, w hich for a considerable period did not reach 4 s. per barrel; leaving a loss to the charterers. 8326. The effect of that ignorant cry, that there was not shipping in the whole world to bring home the grain, withdrew the ships from the sugar trade ?— Unquestionably. 8327. And it created an inordinate rise in the cost of freights; in the spring of the year, from Jamaica and Demerara?—Towards the 1st of August it was when the premium advanced; in June, July, and August, freights rose very high while the ships were absent. 8328. What was the highest sugar freight you know anything of during that period?—The highest sugar freight we received was 5 I. per ton from Havannah, 4 I. 10 s. a ton from Jamaica; that was in July. 8329. What from Dernerara?—Dernerara, 50s,; that was early in the year. 8330. In what month ?—The month of February. From Trinidad, loaded in May, it was 80s.; and loading in September, 60 s. a ton. Those were vessels that went seeking the chartered rales that had been previously given. 8331. What were the freights by the chartered ships to Dernerara?—Last year the British merchants chartered out and home 4 I. 7 s. 6d.; that was when vessels were about the very scarcest, chartered in the month of May. That was the highest we chartered at to Dernerara and back; that was carrying a full cargo of goods out free, a heavier cargo than that home. I have here several charterparties from Cuba. From Cuba the freight was 4 l. 2 s. 6 d. per ton, with 5 per cent, primage; that is home only. 8332. That would make 4 l. 6 s. 6 d. ?—Yes ; the " Achiever" wa-, home only, 4l.5s.6d.; the " Columbine," from Porto Rico, was 4 l. 5 s. per ton, home only ; the " Vaiiant," Porto Rico, home only, 4 l. 2 s. 6 d. per ton for sugar. 8333. In what month was that ?—This was still at the same time when vessels were high ; it was on the 20th of May. On the 15th of May, the " Governor," from Tortola to Lancaster, a small vessel, 4 I. 5 s. per ton net of sugar, home only. The " Auckland," from Kingston in Jamaica, home only, 3 I. per ton. 8334. In what month was that?—Upon the 10th of November last. The " Blucher," from Barbadoes to Liverpool, 3 I. 10 s. home only, with an allowance of 5 s. for having proceeded from an outport to the charterer, bringing it down to 3 l. ,5 s. The " Kyunite," from Porto Rico, home only, 3 l. 5 s. per ton. The " Flirt," from Cuba to Liverpool, home only, 3 I. 5 s., and live per cent.; that is in the month of November 1846. That is a list of all the vessels that we chartered ourselves. I have a note from another broker who chartered a number of vessels; which list he has furnished me with, and w hich were on terms very similar. 8335. What brokers are they ?—James Pool & Co., of Liverpool. [The same was delivered in, and is as follows :]

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

THE

Bate

following is a Sketch of Operations made by us in our capacity of Shipowners and Shipbrokers, to and from the West Indies, in 1847.

of Charter.

Name of Vessel.

Tonnage.

Rate

Destination.

Freight. 1847 : 6 January SO February 22 — 29 March 17 April

Ben Nevis Veracity fX John Patchett Mary Hannah -

282 164 262 103

Havannah Antigua Lnguayra Porto Rico

Lady Harvey -

294

Jamaica -

12 May 20 — 25 — 27 — 5 June 15 — 19 — 22 — 8 July

x Ino Mary Jones X Providence - X Lancashire Witch X Mary and Ann X Laurina - Creole - X Flirt Victoria -

233 170 119 195 210 221 154 253 165

Porto Rico Antigua Ditto Porto Rico Ditto Laguayra Jamaica Antigua St. Vincent

21 —

Anna Watson -

285

Cuba

Urania ... Dagger Champion Choice Brazil Packet British King -

204 227 286 309 172 243

Berbice Jamaica Porto Rico Jamaica St. Domingo Cuba

9 13 7 14 14 20

679 281

September November October — — -

75/ 90/70/ 85/ 60/ 80/ 80/ 80/ 80/ 90/ 90/ 60 / 80/ 80/ 90/ 84/ 75/ 80/ 80/ 75/ 60/ 60/ 65/

REMARK S.

Sugar to the United Kingdom. Sugar out and home. Coffee, in bags. Sugar or molasses. Logwood. Sugar. Sugar or molasses. Ditto out and home. Ditto - ditto. Ditto - ditto. Ditto - ditto. Coffee, in bags. Sugar. Ditto or molasses. Ditto - ditto. Sugar. Wood. Sugar or molasses, out and home Ditto - - ditto. Ditto - - ditto. Ditto - - ditto. Ditto or wood. Ditto - ditto.

We did not charter any vessel for sugar from the West Indies from the end of October to the end of the year. Those marked with a cross went out in ballast; those not marked " out and home," had liberty of taking cargo out for vessel's benefit. We give the quotations of those vessels which were chartered for sugar, molasses, and coffee; but we chartered many other vessels from the Gulf of Mexico, Spanish Main, &c. during 1847, the average of which would about correspond with the annexed scale.

WE had the following Vessels delivered here with Cargoes from the West Indies, having taken chance of the current Rates out there. Date of Discharge.

NAME.

1847: 4 February 6 — 23 April 26 — 1 May 10 June 10 August 30 — 4 November

Glanmire Tyrian ... Coila ... Frisk John Farnworth Fanny Boadicea Dagger Fanny

Where from.

St. Domingo Demerara Porto Rico Ditto _ Jamaica Trinidad Jamaica Ditto Trinidad -

Tonnage.

246 226 149 181 231 211 132 227 211

Rate.

60/ 50/ 65/ 55/ 70/ 80/ 100/ 80/ 65/

ARTICLES.

Logwood and mahogany. Sugar and molasses. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Coffee. Sugar. Ditto.

We may add, that by the last packet we had several letters from captains of vessels then in the West Indies, that they could not get homeward freights at any rates whatever; and that within the last ten days we have been obliged to send three vessels in ballast to the West Indies. Liverpool, 8 March 1848. . Jas. Pooh $ Co.

8336. Have you any information respecting the East Indies ?—Last year there were a great many charters, in consequence of the desire to get rice from Calcutta at 6 I. per ton, home only. 8337. Did not they get to be 10 l. at that time?—Those are the chartered rates; the rates in Calcutta had reached 10/. a ton for rice. 8338. And the same for sugar?—Within a trifle for sugar ; 9 l 155. for sugar and saltpetre. 8339. Do you know what they were from the Mauritius ?—The freights this year are high from the Mauritius; they might be quoted from 51, to 5/. 10s. home. O o 0.32. 8340. Manilla ?

282 W. Imrie, Esq. 9 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8340. Manilla?—The last quotation from Manilla was 41. 105. 8341. Do you know what the vessels loaded at?—They loaded as high as 6 l 8342. Was that the highest ?—I think it was. 8343. Freights were not operated upon so far as that ?—In China there was a large quantity of shipping, and not finding tea home they went to Manilla; the freights in Calcutta were the highest from any part of the East. 8344. Is not it a fair conclusion to come to, that even supposing a repeal of the Navigation Laws were to lower freights considerably, which would not appear from your statement, it would lower the freights equally to Cuba and the Brazils, as it would do to Demerara and Jamaica ?—It would operate equally if not more in their favour, particularly in Brazil and in Manilla. An American ship carrying sugar would also carry cotton, if the law were altered ; and in Manilla they would carry hemp along with sugar, which they could do to advantage. Their ships being better adapted for carrying cases or bags of sugar than for hogsheads of sugar, I think they would look more to carrying from those two quarters than from the West India Islands. 8345. Is not one reason why freights are not quite so low from Jamaica and from the British West India islands, as they are from Cuba and Brazil, that boxes and bags pack a great deal better than hogsheads ?—Unquestionably ; for hogsheads of sugar frequently are not more than half full, very often not more than two thirds full, occupying therefore space in the ship without the sugar being properly packed. 834b. You are paid freight upon the weight of the sugar?—Yes. 8347. And the hogshead being a clumsy package, and draining very much, weighs a great deal more in proportion even than boxes, but still more so than bags ?—A vessel will carry more net sugar in boxes, than in hogsheads.

8348. The tare of bags is nothing compared with the tare of hogsheads ?—The tare of bags is trifling compared with the tare upon hogsheads. 8349. Do the Danes send home their sugar in hogsheads or boxes or in hags? —I should say in hogsheads from Santa Cruz. 8350. Therefore they stand upon an equal footing with the West India islands? —Yes, only I think their sugar is drier, and does not drain so much ; they would prefer from Santa Cruz than from Trinidad and Barbadoes. 8351. That is not the fault of the ship or of the Navigation Laws ?—No, it is in the nature of the article, the sugar not being so well prepared. 8352. With regard to the expedition with which different ships perform their voyages, the Committee has been told that three Danes made a vovage out of London to Santa Cruz and ba ck again into London with sugar, in 66 days, being detained only six days at Santa Cruz, and that that is an expedition unprecedented in mercantile history; and also that nine Danes made three voyages in a year, before the month of August; can you give the Committee any statement of what British ships have done ?—The detention of British ships in our colonies is so great that it is impracticable to get loaded in six days. Generally speaking, an English ship has to discharge a cargo outwards, and I presume the Dane was in ballast. I have a passage here of a ship called the " Treasurer," from Malanzas to Greenock in 26 or 27 days, Malanzas being considerably further off than Santa Cruz; that is a passage that scarcely anything can surpass. I have also the particulars of a vessel called the " Higginson," 453 tons measurement, she made six voyages within two years, carrying an enormous cargo both ways, and calling at Madeira to take in wines. 8353. Do you happen to have the freights at which she went?—-Those vessels always load at 4s. home, carrying goods out free. 8354. When a gentleman compares the freight from Jamaica with the freight from Santa Cruz, I believe he compares things that are not at all alike?— A passage from Jamaica is much longer; for a sugar-laden ship will, generally speaking, go round to the south of Cuba, and so come through the Gulf Stream. 8355. Once in the Gulf Stream, they are obliged to run up towards Newfoundland ?—Yes. 8356. From Santa Cruz they come straight away for England ?—Yes. I have another ship, the "Favorite," 277 tons, which did something more extraordinary than any ot the Danes; she made one voyage to Mauritius, and two to Barbadoes, and back to Liverpool, in one year and live days. I believe there are few vessels even of Danish build that will match that. 8357. It

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 283

681

8357. It was alleged that the packing in the Danish ships was better than the W. Imrie, Esq. packing in British ships; do you consider that there is any just ground for any such statement?—I can only state that the underwriters will write regular traders 9 March 1848. to the West Indian islands on lower terms than they will any other class of shipping. I am speaking of the colonies to Europe. 8358. Sugar is freighted from Brazil to Europe, to Trieste, and so on ?— I believe the premiums to be much the same in Austrian ships and British ships. 8359. The Austrians are very fine ships, are they not ?—Yes. 8360. How do the premiums stand between American ships and Austrian ships, between Brazil and Trieste ?—I do not think there are any Americans in the trade to Trieste from Brazil. 8361. Are there from Cuba?—From Cuba to St. Petersburgh, American ships go. 8362. And British too ?—Yes ; the premium on ships that are known I should think wo uld be similar ; but an American ship not known on Lloyd's books would be charged 25 per cent, more premium. If the underwriter did not know her he would not insure her under. 8363. So that it is quite a fallacy to suppose that the West Indians are to gain anything by the repeal of the Navigation Laws ?—I do not believe the West Indian will be in a better position than he has been for the last 15 years, having only English vessels to employ. 8364. Have not you heard that the freights are as low as 1 I. from British Guiana to England with sugar ?—I have not heard that, but I know that last year I suffered myself from having chartered ships to get the high freights that appeared to be going in the West Indies, and I got nothing. I had to leave the island in ballast. I chartered a vessel to go to Trinidad in the month of July, thinking I should get her loaded, but there was not a cask of sugar to be had, and I had to load her on the Spanish Main, making a heavy loss. 8365. What did you bring home ?—Fustic and cotton. 8366. So that Trinidad has no cause to complain?—We sent two vessels last year to Trinidad, and could not load ; we sent two to Jamaica, and could not load ; to Porto Rico we sent one, and could not load. 8367. What is the lowest freight you ever knew from Calcutta home with sugar ? —In 1843 we had a vessel that loaded for London from Calcutta at 35 s. and 40 s. There are great fluctuations in Calcutta, and in all places where there is much business done; wherever the tonnage gets much beyond the demand, the freight goes down very much; ships being so expensive to lay in port, they must take what they can get and move off. The only quarter this last year that the demand did not reach, was the west coast of South America. There the freights remained as low, or rather lower than the average rates upon that coast. 8368. The " Times" newspaper, in the autumn, raised the alarm that there were not ships enough in all the world to bring home 4,000,000 quarters of corn ? —In October 1846, a writer in the "Times," signed Mercator, stated there was not tonnage sufficient to bring home 4,000,000 quarters ; he estimated it at 800,000 tons shipping. I replied to the letter, in the " Shipping Gazette," repelling the idea that was propagated by the "dimes," stating my conviction that there was sufficient, and that he was wrong in his deductions, inasmuch as 600,000 tons of shipping would have brought the quantity that he said would require 800,000 tons; what I stated was bond fide true, for before the month of May ail that had got to sea-board was cleared off, and we imported something like 10,000,000 of quarters ; that shows there was a great deal more tonnage than was reckoned on by the " Times," and absolutely more tonnage than we require for the general purposes of trade; and that causes the laying up of so many ships from time to time; it is no uncommon thing to see a ship now lie in port two or three months idle. Last year, as I stated, they went so quick because there was an inducement for them to do so; they would go in ballast, and would accomplish three voyages instead of two; that was done, and we had an ample supply. I considered that that statement going forth to the world was a statement that ought to be contradicted ; it caused an alarm that there was no necessity for, and it drew from the West Indies ships that were in the habit of going- there; being tempted by the high prices for the grain. 8369. And it unnecessarily doubled the corn freights?—The fear of famine was the means of procuring any rate of freight that might be asked. 0.32. 002 8370. Mr.

284

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8370. Mr. Moffatt.] I understand from your evidence, that when you come in competition with foreigners, you think you can carry as cheaply as foreigners? y March 1848. —They got the same rates of freight that British ships did that went seeking; there was at one time an advantage to British ships coming to this country. 8371. When you speak of ships seeking, they have to enter into free competition with the ships that may be there ?—Yes. 8372. A considerable portion of your shipping is engaged in that trade, is not it ?—Yes; we have ships in all quarters of the world trading, and we generally take our chance. 8373. If you found that the trade to the colonies was a more profitable trade, you would stick to the colonies?—Yes; if the Navigation Laws were altered we should withdraw all our ships from the West Indies, and send them to the East. 8374. Would not that greatly reduce the freights there?—No question of it; but we should fear that competition less than the American tonnage which is carrying supplies to our colonies. 8375. Do you think that those American ships would carry sugar home to this country cheaper than you can?—If they were fit ships for the purpose; but the ships now employed in the lumber trade would not be proper ships to carry sugar. 8376. While the same class of shipping was employed by the Americans would you keep your ships there?—I think the Americans would immediately build new ones fit for the purpose. 8377. When you come into competition with the Americans in neutral markets, you find you obtain loads ?—The Americans are not now much in competition with British ships, except from America. 8378. They enter into competition'with you as between South America and the continent of Europe, do not they ?—There is not much American tonnage, I think, there ; it is more European. 8379. There you enter into competition with the other nations of the world?— We do; in the Brazil trade we have an advantage by the Sugar-duty Bill compelling it to come in British shipping. 8380. That is with reference to sugar brought into this country?—Yes. 8381. You have found that the amount of tonnage of this country has increased in the neutral trade, have not you?—The amount of tonnage did not increase in the Brazil trade ; there has been an increase in the trade to Cuba and to Brazil since the alteration of the law; but previously it was falling off. 8382. Does not the amount of tonnage employed in the neutral trade show a considerable increase within the last three years over the previous three years?— I have not got the returns, but I should not think it had increased from Brazil. 8383. The question refers to the neutral trade from this country generally; there is only the trade of South America, Hayti, and Cuba open to foreign tonnage. I gather from your evidence, that seeing we have come fairly into competition as you have stated with other nations, and looking to the statement you have made, from which it appears that the freights of British vessels to the West Indies are lower than those obtained by other British vessels employed in the trade with Cuba, there is no great cause to fear the effect of the abolition of the Navigation Laws as respects the shipping interests ?—I think it will very much alter the position of the British shipowner by disarranging the trade at first, and it will eventually drive the British shipowner from the carrying trade to a great extent. 8384. To the colonies, do you mean?—Everywhere. I think the business of the shipowner has been so had, except during the last year, that almost any man can do a great deal better than by continuing to be a shipowner. Many are inclined to get rid of their ships altogether. 8385. But the tonnage of the country has increased ?—It has up to this time. That arises from the increased consumption of every article in this country. 8386. Has not that increase of British tonnage been mainly employed in the unprotected trade?—No, the great increase arises entirely from our Navigation Laws. Our trade with China is exclusively in British ships; and they even allow us the coasting trade in China, which we are not allowed anywhere else. 8387. You state that if the exclusive privilege of carrying from the colonies to the mother country were withdrawn from British ships, your belief is that British ships would abandon that trade? — I consider they would ; at present the encouragement W. Imrie, Esq.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 285 encouragement is slight, and it would be more so if any alteration of the kind supposed took place. I consider now that the chartered rate at which you could procure tonnage does not give the shipowner a new shilling for an old one. Many vessels have been kept in the trade; but if it were not for the economy practised by the shipowners, who are very often retired captains, they could not maintain themselves. 8388. With such economy, and a slight remuneration, is there any cause to fear American competition ?—Decidedly. The Americans are building to a great extent: and any great increase there, or any alteration of the existing law, must produce an immediate and most disastrous effect. 8389. Do you think it would enable them to bring sugar home cheaper than you can ?—I do not think it would; but it would disarrange the trade of the country in this way: a British shipowner who, wishing for employment for his vessel, takes an outward freight, trusting that the crop will be of that nature that he will get a return cargo, would not continue to do that if he were open to the competition of the Americans; he would not go unless he were chartered home; and no West Indian could charter ships home cheaper than he can do at the present time. Since 1832 the rates have been very uniform, except last year. 8390. It appears, therefore, as if the arrangement would not be disturbed by an alteration of the Navigation Laws ?—Ships would not go, and the West Indian would be obliged to take just what ships might happen to come in his way. 8391. You think it would throw almost a virtual monopoly of the carrying trade from our colonies to this country into the hands of the Americans ?—If they had ships sufficient, because they have a very large carrying trade with the colonies in provisions.

683 W. Imrie, Esq: 9 March 1848.

Sabbati, 11° die Martii, 1848. MEMBERS PRESENT.

Lord George Bentinck. Sir Edward Buxton. Mr. Card well. Mr. Milner Gibson. Mr. Goulburn.

Mr. Hope. Lord George Manners. Mr. Matheson. Mr. Moffatt. Mr. Wilson.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK,

IN THE

CHAIR.

Sir William Codrington, Bart., called in ; and Examined. 8392. Chairman.'] YOU are a Proprietor in Antigua?—1 am sorry to say Sir W. Codrington, Bart. I am one of those unfortunate individuals. 8393. You came into possession in the year 1843 —Yes. 11 March 1848. 8394. You succeeded your father, did not you ?—Yes. 8395. Do you know what the average income he derived from those estates was?—I cannot positively state the average. Many years he received 30,000l. and 35,000 I. a year, but that was more than an average. 8396. Do you know at all what be received subsequently to emancipation ?— He received good returns, I know but not equal to that. 8397. Do you think so much as 20,000 I. a year ?— Yes ; be has. 8398. Was that during apprenticeship ?—We had no apprenticeship ; we emancipated the people at once. 8399. Your father received as much as 20,0001, a year?—Yes; not as an average. 8400. Can you state what you have received in each year since 1843?— I have here a statement of the average crops of 1844, 1845, and 1846, which was 546 hogsheads of sugar, 42 puncheons of rum, and 346 puncheons of molasses. Reducing the sugar to hundredweights, the rum to gallons, and the molasses to hundredweights, that would give me a net average loss of 2,5691. 73 d. [The Witness delivered in the Statement, which is as follows:] 0.32.

003

ISLAND

286

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Sir W. Codrington, Ban. 11 March 1848.

ISLAND OF ANTIGUA.—BETTY'S HOPE ESTATE. THE average of the crops made on the above property for the three years, viz. 1844, 1845, and 1846, was 546 hhds. of sugar, the landing weight thereof being 7,740 cwts.; 42 puncheons of rum, gauging 3,366 gallons; and 346 puncheons of molasses, the landing weight being 3,435 cwts.

January 1848 ; the Sugar would now sell for „ Rum „ „ Molasse „

39s. 6c?. per cwt. 2 s. 3 c?. per gallon. 18 s. 0 d. per cwt.

£.

7,740 cwts. of sugar, at Less duty and charges -

- 1 19 6 -1-6

Would yield, at-

- 19

3,366 gallons of rum, at Less freight and charges

-23 - - 9

Would yield, at-

-16

3,445 cwts. of molasses, at Less duty and charges -

- 18 -10

Would yield, at-

-7

- £.

Total The Average Expenditure for the above Period was, ------For labour Other local expenses ----Invoices from England

$ -

5,454 4,340 1,626

Showing an Average Loss of -

£.

7,353

- net.

252

- „

1,245

9 „

8,850 12

9 „

d -

- £. j

11,420

- „

2,569

8401. The 2,569/. was the average of the three years?—Yes. 8402. Can you inform the Committee what the loss or the gain was in each year?—The gain in 1844 was about 6,0001. 8403. What was the case in 1845 ?—I lost upwards of 600/. 8404. Was that a year of drought?—It was not a good year. 8405. What was the cause of the failure in 1845 ?—Partly from being a bad crop, and partly from the tremendous expense I was at in repairing the damage done by the earthquake in 1843. So great was my loss by the earthquake, that I was obliged to raise 10,000 l. to repair my w orks. 8406. When you say you lost 600 /., you mean to say that if you had not laid out 10,000 /. of capital in 1845 you would have made 9,400/.?—I am putting this great loss over those three years, and then I have taken the expenses I have been at for the three years, and so arrived at an average. 8407. In the year 1845 you laid out 10,000/. of fresh capital?—I began in 1844; in short, I began at the end of 1843. My works were all demolished; all the boiling-houses and everything were level with the ground. I went out in November 1843, to see the state of affairs, and found it necessary to raise and lay out this large sum, which I did by degrees. 8408. How much did you layout in 1843?—I cannot say exactly; hut we began the repair of the works, which lasted three years, and during the three years we expended 10,000 /. 8409. Taking the average of 3,300/. a year you would in 1845, but for that necessary and casual outlay, have cleared 2,700/.?—I suppose I should. 8410. What did you do in 1846?—I lost still more; I lost then above 2,000 /. 8411. But for that outlay you would have had a profit of 1,300/. that year? —Yes. 8412. In addition to the 10,000/. which you laid out to repair the damages occasioned by the earthquake, had you laid out a great deal of capital 011 permanent improvements ?—Yes. 8413. What

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

287

685

8413. What was the amount of that ?—The capital I sent out was 2,000 I.; I i Sir W. Codrington, Bart. have put it all together in those three years. 8414. Then, in point of fact, there would be to be added nearly 700 I. a year to the profits of those years, had not you laid out any unusual sum of money in 11 March 1848. improvements ?—Yes. 8415. In what way was that laid out?—In machinery, steam mills, and other improvements in the works, and the expenses were increased by the erection of this machinery. 8416. You distinguish between the machinery you purchased in this country and the cost of putting it up ?—The cost of putting it up is added to the expenditure of those three years. 8417. Were those improvements completed in 1846, or did you continue the outlay in 1847 ?—I did not continue the outlay in 1 847. 8418. In the three previous years of which you have been speaking there was an annual average outlay of 4,000 l., and no outlay in 1847 ?—Exactly. 8419. What was your profit in 1847?—I can only give the Committee the probable result, because a great deal of my sugar and molasses is not sold yet; in consequence of the very depressed state of the market I have been keeping them ; I calculate on a profit of about 1,700 /.; we had a very large crop indeed, a great deal more than an average one. 8420. In point of fact, your profit of 1,700 I., had you made the same outlayin 1847 that you did in the three previous years, would have been rendered a loss of 2,300 I. ?—Yes. 8421. You say your crop was a larger crop than any of the preceding crops ? —Yes. 8422. Will you state what was the difference of the crops?—The average of my crops for those three years was 546 hogsheads, and for 1847 the amount was 861 hogsheads. 8423. Had you obtained as good a price for your produce in 1847 as you did in the average of the other three years, what would have been the result?—I should have had a very good income. 8424. How many hundredweights are there in your hogsheads?—They average 14 cwt. 8425. May the Committee assume that your short price of sugar in 1847 was 10 s. a cwt. less than it was in previous years ?—There was a greater difference than that, I should say 1 2 s. 8426. Assuming that 10 s. a cwt. was the fall in the price of your sugar as compared to former years, but for that you would have realized 6,027 l more than you did ?—Certainly. 8427. Which, added to 6,027 l. should have given you an income of 7,727 which was cut down to 1,700 I. by the operation, as you apprehend, of the Act of 1846 ?—Yes. 8428. You heard Mr. Tollemache's evidence respecting the nature of the labour of Antigua?—Yes. 8420. You heard him say that the wages were reduced to 6 d. a day ?—They are at present, but I doubt very much whether it will last; we took the opportunity of a very bad season to reduce them ; we had had a long drought, and there was scarcely any work to be done ; no weeds growing, or anything of that kind, and we took that opportunity of reducing the wages ; and I doubt very much when crop-time arrives whether they will not be raised again. 8430. Can you state to the Committee how it is that the labourers on sugar plantations in the West Indies are, practically, completely the masters of' the planters?—The last time I went out, which was in December 1846, I was anxious to begin the crop, and arranged to begin it the first week in January while I was there; but to my great disappointment we could get no labourers to do anything for several days. Instead of going to work, they came to me in groups and complained that they could not cut the canes at the price we were giving. I told them it would be impossible for me to give more, and if the crop was not taken off' at that price I should let it stay and rot. They laughed at me and said, " Massa, there is fine crop, hut who take him off?" and that sort of language. I said, " I expect very soon some Portuguese who will take it off'." In a short time the Portuguese arrived, but in the meantime after a few days, the negroes went to work; but it was several days before'they would do so. 004 0.32. 8431. Do

288 Sir W. Codrington,

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8431. Do you suppose it was the fear of the Portuguese that induced them? —Yes; I think it had a very good effect. 8432. In point of* fact the immigration of a few labourers had a much greater 11 March 1848. moral effect than could fairly have been expected from the numbers actually arriving?—Yes; I only imported myself 63. 8433. I believe your estate is very favourably situated with respect to labour, from the circumstance that you have the island of Barbuda?—Yes; but that is of very little use to me with respect to labour, because no entreaties of any kind will prevail upon them, to any extent, to go from Barbuda to Antigua. 8434. Have not you succeeded in inducing them to go over?—While I was there I succeeded in getting a few of them over to assist in taking oft' the crop; by giving them something extra, hut they have returned again. 8435. Would not they come over again in crop-time at a future period, do you imagine?—My attorney says he is afraid they will not. 8436. What wages did you give them ?—I gave thern the wages of Antigua, and a dollar a month extra. 8437. What were the wages of Antigua at that timer—The wages were about 1 s. 8438. You heard Mr. Tollemache say, that he had succeeded in reducing his expenditure by cutting down the salaries of the superior people and their perquisites to the extent of from goo/, to 1,000/. a year upon an outlay of 10,000 l. a year; do you conceive it would be possible upon your estate to cut down the salaries ot the people, or their perquisites, in the same proportion?—I cut them down in a great measure in 1843; but I do not consider that I can cut them down any more. 8439. You did that five years ago?—Yes. 8440. Therefore no such further economy can be carried out on your estate?— No, I do not think any more economy can. 8441. You heard Mr. Tollemache say that he thought it would be possible, by economy of labour, to reduce the cost of cultivation to the extent of is. a cwt.; so that, even supposing it were not possible to keep down the wages of labour to 6 s., to which they have been reduced, he might, by an economy of labour, save a sum per annum equal to that reduction of the wages of the individual labourers; in your opinion, is that to be done on your estate?— No; I do not think it is upon his either. 8442. Will you give your reasons to the Committee why you think it is not to be done upon either your estate or his?—I think he will find that he will require more labour than lie has laid down lie will allow his attorney. 8443. He had laid down a fixed rule, that only a certain number of labourers are to be employed upon a certain extent of ground?—Yes. I think that is imprudent, because one week they may require very few; then if there come suddenly a good deal of rain, before the attorney can correspond with Mr. Tollemache lie will want double the number of labourers perhaps. 8444. In the meantime, his crop will be smothered by weeds?—It must be, if he cannot get the labour he requires. 8445. And while he is saving shillings lie will he losing pounds in the value of his crops ?—I am afraid lie may. He may reduce it to a great degree by improvements in agricultural implements; and I am now introducing weeding machines, which we hope will enable us to keep down, in a great measure, some of that labour. 844b. Is your estate adjoining his?—One estate is. I have sent over a great many ploughs, and other agricultural implements, and by that means have reduced labour in a great measure ; and my last accounts tell me that my implements are succeeding very well. But I am sure there are times when I require more labour than I can get; and if we had more labour, of course we should be able to command the market, whereas, as I told the Committee before, I have been obliged to give way to the negroes when they refused to work at my rate of wages. Being without labour for many days, I was obliged to submit to putting off' the cutting of the crop; no work was done for several days. I might a little qualify what, has been said respecting Mr. Tollemache's expenditure, as compared with mine, inasmuch as having been out three years before him, I of course then cut down what I thought necessary ; so that last year, when he went out, lie of course could cut down more than I could; hut I do not think lie can go on cutting down. I think he Iras done as much as Bart.

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as he can, and that the rules he is now laying down will he more than can be Sir W. Codrington, Bart. carried out. 8447. There is not sufficient elasticity in his rales ; he will perhaps have too much labour some years, and a great deal too little in warm rainy seasons and 11 March 1848. seasons of great crop?—Yes. In one of my letters, five or six months ago, I suggested to my attorney to endeavour to prevail upon some of the Barbuda people to go over ; he said there was no inducement to them to go over then, for there was no work to be done in consequence of the length of drought, and there being no weeds growing; on such an occasion as that, Mr. Tollemache would not require so many labourers as he had allowed his attorney to employ. 8448. You showed that you had lost 2,000 I. a year for the three years antecedent to 1847, including the outlay of your capital?—Yes ; I am out of pocket 2,000 l. upon the average, that is, including all my expenditure. 8449. But you were getting high prices?—'Yes. 8450. On an average you produce 546 hogsheads of sugar, which, at 14 cwt. a hogshead, gives 7,632 cwt. If the price had been as low in those three years as it has been in this year it would have created a deficiency in your receipts of 3,816 I. a year, which would then have to be added to the 2,000 I. you were out of pocket?—It would not have arrived at that, because I should have put the estates out of cultivation ; we should all have been ruined entirely before this. It is only the very splendid crop of 1847 which has enabled us to look for anything like a return at those low prices. 8451. Is the general result this, that if prices remain where they are, you must abandon your Antigua estate?—I think so. 8452. At all events, I presume you will not invest any further capital upon it ? —Certainly not. I should have laid out more capital had not I been stopped by the Bill of 1846. Other improvements are necessary. I could improve my estates further, and I have contemplated sending out more machinery of different kinds, but I have stopped it all in consequence of the Bill of 1846, which knocked the prices down 12 s. a cwt. 8453. Do you think that any immigration of labourers will enable you, at those prices, to compete with slave-grown sugar?—No, I do not think anything can enable us to compete with slave-grown sugar, unless we have a differential duty. 8454. You mean that no improvements nor immigration of labour will be sufficient?—No; no immigration of labour can enable us, without protection, to compete; looking to the nature of the negro, you are so dependent upon his whims that you cannot depend upon anything like consecutive labour, and they constantly leave you at the moment you most want them ; I have known them leave the boiling-houses at the time when it was very essential to complete the manufacture of the sugar. 8455. If the sugar is left in the tayches for 24 hours it is spoiled ?—Yes ; we never can depend upon the negroes for labour when we most want it. 8456. Would not a very few imported labourers, who were imported under contracts to work for you, secure you against such casualties as those?—An importation of labourers would secure us, certainly. 8457. If they were under contract to be obliged to work for you ?—Though the labourers now were obliged to work for you, you could not get anything like the work you wanted out of them ; some days they would work five or six hours, and some days more or less, I believe in Cuba they work 18 hours a clay, and every day in the week, in crop time. In Antigua we never get them more than nine hours a day, and we do not get them every day in the week ; they very often take the Saturdays and the Mondays to themselves ; when I was there they used to take the alternate Mondays to themselves, in addition to the Saturdays, so that they worked nine clays a fortnight. 8458. Are you in Antigua oppressed by heavy taxation ?—Yes, I believe so; bat I cannot exactly define the items of the island taxation. 8459. Do you know whether the charges in the island, instead of being reduced in proportion to the profits of the planters, have been infinitely magnified since emancipation ?—I cannot enter into that subject. 8460. You do not know, as respects the magistrates, the clergy, the police, the schools, and so forth, if the charges upon the island have been very much enhanced?—I believe they have. 8461. Could you procure a statement of the charges upon the island ? I have not got such a statement. P P 8462. Mr.

290 Sir W. Codrington, Bait.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8462. Mr. Goulburn.] Did not the charges of management of the estate diminish very considerably upon the passing of the Emancipation Act; the charges and salaries to persons on the estate?—I know nothing about it in the 11 March 1848. time of slavery, therefore I have not made any comparison of that kind. We tried to diminsh labour by job-work, but job-work is very unsatisfactory, because they do the work in so slovenly a manner that it creates constant quarrels between the manager and the negro; and then we are constantly obliged to go before the magistrate, and very often the case is dismissed, so that a day's work is lost entirely, and then we have the work to do over again. I went with my attorney upon one or two occasions to look at work which had been done by job-work. The negro made a complaint that the manager would not pay him for the job-work ; the manager said he would not pay him because he had done the work in so slovenly a manner, and I went to look at the work with my attorney and found it was so, and I obliged them to do the work over again. 8463. Chairman.J Those magistrates are stipendiary magistrates appointed by the Crown ?—Yes, some of them. 8464. Who generally side against the planter, and for the labourer ?—Very often. They very often dismiss cases, so that we get no redress. 8465. Are those stipendiary magistrates paid by this country, or by the island ?—By the island. The governor is paid by this country, but I think the other magistrates are paid by the island. 8466. One of the great grievances which you have to complain of is, that those stipendiary magistrates interfere injuriously between the planters and the labourers, though the labourers were already masters of the planters in point of fact ?—Yes. 8467. Do you think that if the stipendiary magistrates were abolished it would serve two purposes; to enable you to secure the just amount of labour due to you, and save the colony something in taxation?—I do not know what amount could be saved in that way ; there are not many stipendiary magistrates in Antigua. 8468. Are you obliged to go before the stipendiary magistrates, or are there others?—Yes, there are others. 8469. Are they unpaid?—Yes, I think so. 8470. Sir E. Buxton.] Would you recommend that stipendiary magistrates should be done away with ?—Yes. 8471. What magistrates would you put in their place?—Either resident proprietors or attorneys. 8472. Therefore the persons you would put in their place would be persons who were either masters themselves or agents for the masters?—Yes; I do not know any other class. 8473. Was the profit you received in 1847 owing to a very good crop, or increased cultivation ?—Owing mainly to a very good crop. 8474. You say that wages are now fid. a day; is that for field labourers or tradesmen ?—For field labourers. 8475. Which may be taken as the average, probably?—Just at present it may, but that is not in crop time, so that we do not know at all what they will be in crop time. 8476. The wages paid to tradesmen would be somewhat higher, probably ?— Yes, much higher. 8477. What price did you pay the Portuguese you imported per day ?—They were generally paid the highest rate of wages in the island ; that was the agreement with them. 8478. Their wages are practically somewhat higher than that of the negroes in general, are they not?—Yes; they generally are 1 s. a day. There are upwards of 1,000 Portuguese in Antigua now; I set the example by taking over 63, and other people have sent over a good many more since. many of that number of 63 are still working with you ?—'Alto8479. gether there have been 19 deaths, including women and children ; there are several children, all the others are working for me now. 8480. Do they work well ? —Very well. 8481. Better than the negroes?—Yes, certainly. Though we paid them the same rate we got a good deal more work out of them. 8482. You paid them a higher rate, did not you?—Higher than we are paying

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ing now; we were then paying 1 s. to the negroes; job-work was more expensive Sir W. Codrington, Bart. to us. 8483. Was there a large mortality among them when they arrived in the island ? —No, not large. I think the first year, out of my 63, I lost seven or eight. I 11 March 1848. believe they are generally doing well now. 8484. Do you know whether there is a strict contract law in Antigua at present ?—There is a contract law. 8485. Do you know what the provisions of it are ?—I know that the negro is bound to you for a month ; he can leave then at a month's notice; you give him a cottage free, and he is bound to work for you for a month. 8486. Is that law much in operation?—I do not think it is so much as it was. 8487. It is not found to answer?—-No; they found strangers worked better; the people from the other parishes. 8488. Do you employ a larger number of labourers at one time of the year than the other ?—Yes. 8489. It is in crop time, is it not, that you employ the greatest number ?— Yes. 8490. Is there labour in the island for all the negroes at all times of the year?—A great part of the year. We should have labour for a great many more in the agricultural districts. There are times out of crop time when, if there has been a long drought, for example, they would not be employed; but generally speaking we could employ many more than we have. I think the population itself in Antigua is large enough ; but the agricultural population is so very small. 8491. So many of them can get a livelihood in other ways?—Yes, and they prefer being tradesmen of any kind to being agricultural labourers ; and our earthquake did us a great deal of harm in t hat respect, because a great many negroes became tradesmen in consequence; masons and carpenters. 8492. They were necessarily employed at that time in other ways ?—Yes. 8493. Does it often happen that you have given higher wages during crop time than at any other time ?—Yes; it is a different employment. 8494. In fact it is, as is the case in many parts of England, that at one time of the year there is a greater demand for labour ?—Yes. 8495. But would not the effect be bad if the number of labourers in the country was so great as to be fully equal to the demand in that one time of the year: would not there be during the other parts of the year a great number of labourers who would be unable to obtain employment?—Yes, of course; I suppose we might employ double the number in crop time. 849b". You could not employ more at other times of the year?—At reduced wages we should employ more. There is a great deal of work left undone now which we should otherwise do; we should keep our roads in better repair, and the fences. 8497. You say that there some times of the year when some of the labourers are out ot employment?—Occasionally, not generally. 8498. You told us Sir Bethel Codrington received* large sums during the time of slavery; were there some years in which he made losses?—-Occasionally; in a year of hurricane, for instance ; and there was one year of great draught in which he was out of pocket. 8499. You said that during the first years of freedom Sir Bethel Codrington received a large income from his estates?—Yes. 8500. But that after that time they fell off?—Yes. The produce did not fall off; the amount of sugar has rather increased ; hut the price of labour has increased so much. Soon alter the emancipation the price of labour was 6 d., and it rose to 8 d. and 1 s., and I believe 2 s. 8501. Do you imagine that if you could keep the price of labour at the present rate, you could still continue the cultivation profitably on your estate in the island?—I think I might be able to continue it; but as to profit, I think that is doubtful. 8502. You would be disposed to continue it at the present price of sugar, and the present price of labour ?—If we could keep wages at 6 d. I should make the attempt; I do not think that the profit would be worth speaking of. 8503. Your losses in 1844 and 184,5 were very much owing to the earthquake in 1843, were not they?—Yes, they were. 8504. It was necessary, was not it, at that time to replant the fields;—Yes, 0.32. p p 2 and

292

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

and much of the crop rotted on the ground from our not having been able to take it off. that the next year or two after that you suffered from the effect of 8505. 11 March 1848. the earthquake ?—Yes ; I am now suffering from it. 8506. So that the last few years can hardly be taken as an average of what you could do, except under those very adverse circumstances?—No, that makes a great difference. The money I spoke of I obtained from the Government loan, and I am paying five per cent, interest for it. 8507. You cut down the salaries on your estate in 1843; can you tell the Committee the amount per annum to which you cut down the expenses at that time; Mr. Tollemache estimated his reduction at 900 l. or 1,000 l. a year; do you think the reduction you made was as large as that ?—No, not so large as that. 8508. Are your estates as large as his ?—Yes, rather larger. 8509. Still you were not able to make so large a reduction as that ?—Not so large an amount as he did. 8510. Can you tell us the amount to which you reduced your expenditure? —No; my estates were not so extravagantly managed as his were; my father during the last few years paid the attorney six per cent, upon the net income which he received, therefore it was his business to keep down all the expenditure ; that was a very had plan I found, because he let the works and the things go very much out of repair ; for of course, all the repairs that he allowed diminished his income, therefore I was the sufferer hereafter. 8511. Provided it is impossible to obtain a continued protection, would you think it worth while to import labourers?—No. 8512. But if the protection were certain, would you think it worth while to import them at your own expense ?—Not at any great expense. I found those Portuguese have cost me 8 /. 1 s. 6 d each. 8513. You say that at present the labourers have the command of the market ?—Yes. 8514. And I suppose they behave as labourers who have the command of the market behave all over the world ?—I should think so; they stipulate and bargain by the hour. 8515. Do not you think that what you have rather to look to is a reduction in the amount of cultivation ?—No. I could cultivate more than I do now, but my orders are not to cultivate more than I can do well; if I had more labourers I should cultivate more. 8516. Do not you suppose that if the amount of labourers in the island were still larger, the planters would then be induced to attempt to cultivate a larger quantity of sugar, and that the labourers would still have the command of the market as they have now?—Yes, they would, unless we could import large numbers. 8517. In some of the other islands that is much more the case, is not it, than in Antigua?—I believe so. 8518. Probably Jamaica could employ almost any amount of labourers, if there were capital to set them at work ?—From what I hear I believe so, but I do not know anything about Jamaica myself. 8519. Mr. Matheson.] What number of acres do your estates in Antigua contain ?—One thousand four hundred and twenty-four acres. 8520. Were the whole of your buildings destroyed by the earthquake which took place in 1843?—Not the whole. 8521. What proportion?—The main works upon one estate were entirely demolished, so that we could not carry on the manufacture of sugar at all. 8522. Upon other estates what was the case ?—They were all shaken and damaged. 8523. Was one-half of them destroyed ?—More than one-half, I should say, were destroyed and otherwise damaged; everything was shaken; the boilers and the tayches were put out of order. 8524. Can you form any idea of what may have been the original cost of constructing those buildings and machinery upon your estates before the earthquake ?- No. I cannot. 8525. £. 20,000?—A great deal more than that; they are very expensive, and very large buildings. *

Sir IV, Codrington, Bart.

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Mr. John Currie, called in; and Examined. 8526. Chairman.'] YOU are the principal Distiller in England, I believe?— I am. 8527. How many gallons of spirits do you distil annually at your factory ?— About 900,000 gallons. 8528. What is the annual amount of duty you pay to Government?—Above 300,000l 8529. How long have you been conversant with the business of a distiller?— I have been practically conversant with the business about 20 years. 8530. I need not ask you if you are acquainted with its various details ?— Yes, I know the bearing of the laws upon the subject. 8531, Can you tell the Committee how many corn distillers there are in England ?—I think there are nine ; there are six in the neighbourhood of London, and three others, one at Worcester, one at Bristol, and one at Newcastle ; there is a distillery at Liverpool, but it lias not worked for several years. 8532. Can you state the gross amount in gallons of British spirits manufactured in the course of last year at those different distilleries?—I think last year in those distilleries I have mentioned the number of gallons distilled was 5,356,794, and the amount of duty paid upon those spirits was 2,098,077 I. 13 s. 8533 Can you inform the Committee what different processes the raw spirit has to be subjected to before it is fit for the retail spirit dealer ?—When it leaves our distilleries it is transferred to a rectifying distillery; those rectifying distillers are a different class of traders, and by them the spirit is mixed with ingredients and rendered palatable to the taste of the public, and sold by them to public-houses and different places. 8534. Can you tell the Committee what those ingredients are ?—I am not a rectifier, therefore I cannot exactly say. I believe what is called gin is made principally from Juniper berries, and carroway seeds, and other ingredients of that sort, with a mixture of sugar. 8535. Do the excise laws prevent the business of rectifying from being carried on under the same roof with a distillery?—Decidedly; the Act of 6th George 4th, chapter 80, section 35, expressly forbids it. 8536. Was that the first time that distillers and rectifiers were prevented from carrying on the trade in unison ?—I believe it was. 8337. Was it practically carried on in unison prior to that ?—I believe so. 8538. In short, distillers were distillers and rectifiers?—I think so. There were many rectifiers who were not distillers; but 1 believe, though I am not quite certain upon that point, that prior to 1825 there was no law to prevent a distillery being near a rectifying house. 8539. T he differential duty then payable between the English corn spirits and the colonial spirits was is. Gd. ?—It was. I have a speech here of Lord Goderich, in the House of Lords, in which he says; " In the year 1824 the West India interests were represented, and I believe truly, to be labouring under great difficulties; one great cause of which was stated to be the inadequately remunerating market they had for rum; and it was represented that if they could obtain access to England, they might then, with the sale of their rum, make up for the undoubted loss they sustained upon their sugars. The duty on rum was then is. 8d. or 2s. more than the nominal duty on British spirits. In 1824, I had, while a Member of the other House of Parliament, proposed an alteration of the scale of these spirit duties; I proceeded then on the principle that the subjects of his Majesty's colonies were entitled to the same considerate protection as those at home; but it was not till the year 1825 that I was enabled to consolidate the system now sought to be altered ; and I think I proceeded at that time upon fair and equitable principles. Two rates of duty were proposed to my consideration, one of 25. and one of is., which last was by the West India interest, who said it was all they could bear. Under those circumstances, I conceived that in fixing on is. Gd. I had adopted a duty as fair to the countervailing interests as any other proposition I could take." That was the speech of Lord Goderich on the 29th of April 1830. It is clear from this speech of Lord Goderich's, that in 1825 he established a differential duty of is. 6d., because he says so. The preamble of the 65th chapter of the 8 & 9 Victoria distinctly states: " Whereas by the laws now in P P 3 force,

Mr. J. Currie. 11 March 1848.

294 Mr. J. Currie.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

force, goods, the poduce or manufacture of the islands of Guernsey, Jersey, Aldcrney, and Sark, may be imported from the said island respectively into 11 March 1848. the United Kingdom, on payment of such proportion of such duties as fairly countervail any duties of excise payable on the like goods the produce of the part of the United Kingdom into which they are imported: And whereas the duties of excise payable on plain British spirits, the produce of or distilled in England, is 7s. 10d. upon every gallon of such spirits of the strength of hydrometer proof, and 3s. 8d. upon every gallon of the like spirits at the same strength distilled in Scotland, and 2s. 8d. upon the every gallon of like spirits at the same strength distilled in Ireland; but by reason of the duty of excise on malt, being materials from which such spirits are made, and of the duty of excise on licences to distillers and makers of malt and spirits, the duties before-mentioned cannot be taken as fair countervailing duties on the like spirits, the produce or manufacture of the said islands, imported into any of the parts of the United Kingdom aforesaid, and it is necessary therefore to determine the same: And whereas plain British spirits when imported from one of the said parts of the United Kingdom into another, must be removed under the provisions of the laws of excise, and subject, when so removed, to be dealt with in all respects as if the same had been distilled in the country into which the same have been so removed : And whereas spirits denominated British brandy, and British compounds, distilled or made in any part of the United Kingdom, cannot be so removed, and there are no duties of excise payable thereon on which any countervailing duty can be fairly estimated; Be it enacted, by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, That from and after the passing of this Act, the countervailing duties to be charged on all spirits of the nature or quality of plain British spirits, manufactured or distilled in the islands of Guernsey, Jersey, Alderney, or Sark, and imported from any of the said islands into the United Kingdom, shall be as follows (that is to say): for and upon every gallon of such spirits of the strength of hydrometer proof, as ascertained by Sikes' hydrometer, imported into England, the sum of 9s., and so in proportion for any greater degree of strength, or any greater or less quantity: For and upon every gallon of such spirits of the like strength imported into Scotland, the sum of 4s. 1 od., and so in proportion for any greater degree of strength, or any greater or less quantity : For and upon every gallon of such spirits imported into Ireland, the sum of 35. 1 od., and so in proportion for any greater degree of strength, or any greater or less quantity." By the preamble of this Bill it would clearly appear that the reason for imposing a differential duty or an extra duty of is. 2d. upon spirits, the produce of the Channel Islands, was in consequence of the malt duty which we paid from which they were exempt; and also the excise restrictions, and other restrictions imposed upon the distiller of British spirits in the United Kingdom, which were not imposed upon the distiller in the Channel Islands. 8540. 'There were no corn duties to come into question in that calculation ?— No, there were no corn duties whatever payable in the Channel Islands. 8541. One shilling and two-pence in 1845, in the opinion of those who passed that Act of Parliament, was the just difference to compensate the distiller for the abstractions and charges of excise and malt duty?—Yes. 8542. In the year t 826 Lord Goderich assessed the differential duty of 1 s. 6d. as a fair compromise between the two parties ?--Yes. 8543. When the distillers claimed a 2s. differential duty they assessed the obstruction of the Corn Laws at is. a gallon, did not they ?—I believe something was said about the Corn Laws operating to the extent of 1 s. a gallon, but I have not before me any paper to show it; but at all events, whether they did so or not, the distillers supposing the Corn Laws entirely to be done away, are, upon that showing, justified in asking for is. 8544. There would still remain the claim which they made then of is. differential duty in the excise, which has not been touched by any subsequent alteration of the laws? — Undoubtedly. 8545. The duty was reduced from is. 6d. to is. in 1846, and again in 1847 to gd. ? —It was. 834b. W hich you considered to be 3d. a gallon below the fair compensation to which you are entitled lor the restrictions and burdens of the excise? —Undoubtedly

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 295 —Undoubtedly more than 3 d., because we maintain that when the Corn Laws are said to be abolished there will still remain a duty of 1 s. a quarter upon barley. At present the duty is 2 s. 6 d. upon barley, but 2 s. as the minimum duty upon barley will remain so up to the 1st of February 1849; therefore in the statement we sent in last year we claimed a differential duty of 1 d., being 2 s. a quarter upon foreign barley. 8547. That was assuming that the consumer paid all the duly?—Undoubtedly; it was under that impression that we said this ; Government think fit to impose a duty of 2 s. a quarter upon barley, which 2 s. a quarter we maintain to be equal to 1 d. a gallon. Your Lordship does not quite agree with that; you think that that 2 s. a quarter goes into the pockets of the importer. 8548. Will you explain to the Committee what were the principal objects for which the Act of the 6th of Geo. 4 was passed, and which it was understood to effect ?—The object of that Act was to assimilate the process of work between the three kingdoms, and to impose such restrictions upon the manufacture of spirits in England as should enable them to collect the duty fairly ; in order to do that there was a series of checks and counter-checks which prevailed through the Act, which I shall take the liberty of explaining to the Committee presently. 8549. To prevent the possibility of any evasion of duty?—Solely for that purpose. 8550. Not at all for the benefit of the distiller, but for the protection of the Excise?—Yes. The distillers derived no benefit whatever from that Act, but they were put to great expense; I believe upwards of 250,000l. was laid out upon the several distilleries in London, for the sole purpose of adapting their distilleries to the alteration which they were obliged to make under this Act. 8551. And there are only six distilleries ?—Yes; in those distilleries 250,000 l.. was laid out. In my distillery I was obliged to lav out 44,000 I. to adapt the distillery to the Act of 1825, without any benefit whatever from it; it was upwards of 40,000 I. I know ; I think it was 44,000 l. 8552. Will you proceed to state to the Committee the Excise restrictions and impediments to your manufacture which you consider to be imposed upon the distiller?—The Act of the 6 Geo. 4, c. 80, to which I have referred, imposes restrictions and impediments from beginning to end. In the first place it imposes the necessity of erecting premises considerably more than double the size we should require in order to carry on our business. They only allow us to carry on one part of our process at a time, and not to begin the second part till the first part is entirely finished. This obliges us to have premises more than double the requisite capacity. Then there is also a positive prohibition, not only of the choice of the process, but of the choice of material. Even the corn which we are allowed to use we are only allowed to use in a particular manner; we are obliged to make our worts of a particular gravity, and from that gravity we are charged with a certain quantity of spirits, whether we get those spirits or not. 8553. And not only so, but you may not make spirits, unless you give notice that it is your intention to make them?—If we do not make the certain quantity of spirits which the law requires that we shall make from a given quantity of wash of a declared gravity, we are charged with duty for it whether we make it or not. That of itself prevents any attempt at improvement. We cannot attempt any improvement in our work if we are charged with a duty of 7 s. 10 d. a gallon upon every gallon of spirits, whether we produce them or not. We are obliged by this Act to work entirely under the provisions and directions of this Act, and by them solely. I must beg the Committee to allow me to refer to some of those restrictions, because they are very material upon the point. This act begins with imposing a 10 l. a year licence upon all distillers; it proceeds to say that distilleries shall only be erected at certain places which are within a quarter of a mile of a market town of 500 inhabited houses. This enhances the value of the premises, of course, but perhaps that is not very material. Then come the utensils. We are not allowed to keep a still of less than 400 gallons, nor are we allowed to use more than two wash stills or two low wine stills, as they are called, if we have any of less contents than 3,000 gallons; and if we do not adapt our premises to those regulations there is a penalty of 100 l. Then the Act says every person who takes out this licence shall have " one vessel to be called a wash charger, one 0.32. P P 4 • other

693 Mr. J. Currie. 11 March 1848.

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

Mr. J. Currie.

other vessel to be called a low wines receiver, one other vessel to be called a low wines and feints charger, one other vessel to be called a feints receiver, one 11 March 1848. other vessel to be called a spirit receiver, and, except as hereinafter mentioned, one other vessel to be called a spent-lees receiver." Every one of those receivers is put up solely for the purpose of the duty, and for no profit whatever to the distiller; we could do without a great part of them almost entirely. Then the Act goes on to say those utensils shall be made in a certain way. The wash charger is perfectly useless to the distiller, but the Act says, " Every such wash charger shall be a close-covered vessel, and the content thereof shall not be less than that of the largest wash still; and every such wash charger shall be connected with the wash still or stills by one close metal pipe to each such still, having a cock or cocks thereon, one end of which pipe shall be fixed into the bottom of such wash charger, and the other end thereof shall be fixed into each such still, and to such wash charger there shall be one other close metal pipe having a cock thereon, one end of which pipe shall be fixed into the pump or pumps placed in the jack back, if any such vessel shall be used, or otherwise to the pipe or trough communicating with the fermenting wash backs, and the other end of such pipe shall be fixed into such wash charger, and such charger shall not have any communication with any other vessel or utensil whatever; and every such low wines receiver shall be a close-covered vessel, with a pump fixed therein, for the conveyance of low wines from such receiver into the low wines and feints charger or chargers, and there shall be one close metal pipe, externally visible for its whole length, attached to and leading directly from the safe at the end of the worm of the wash still, and fixed into every suck low wines receiver or receivers, so that all low wines running into such pipe from such safe shall immediately be discharged therefrom into such receiver or receivers, which receiver or receivers shall not have any communication with any vessel or utensil whatsoever, except as aforesaid; and every such feints receiver shall be a close-covered vessel, with a pump fixed therein, for the conveyance of feints from such receiver into the low wines and feints charger or chargers, and there shall be one close metal pipe, externally visible for the whole length, attached to and leading directly from the safe at the end of the worm of the low wines still, and fixed into every such feints receiver or receivers, so that all feints running into such pipe from such safe shall immediately be discharged therefrom into such receiver or receivers, which receiver or receivers shall not have any communication with any vessel or utensil whatsoever, except as aforesaid ; and every such low wines and feints charger shall be a close-covered vessel connected with the low wines still or stills by a close metal pipe to each such still, having a cock or cocks,thereon, one end of which pipe shall be fixed into the bottom of such charger, and the other end shall be fixed into each such still; and each such charger shall have communication with the low wines and feints receivers respectively by means of close metal pipes, one end whereof respectively shall be fixed to each such charger, and the other end whereof shall be attached to the pump or pumps to be so fixed as aforesaid in the low wines receiver or receivers, and feints receiver or receivers respectively, and such charger shall not have any communication with any other vessel or utensil whatever, except as aforesaid." Therefore that prescribes not only that we shall have this wash charger, but that we shad have it of a particular size and made in a particular way; that we shall have metal pipes and cocks and everything the Excise shall choose to impose upon us, all at the charge of the trader. T hen it goes on with respect to the low wines receiver and the feints receiver, the feints charger and the spirit receiver; and it says, "Every such spirit receiver shall be a close-covered vessel, and shall not have any communication with any vessel or utensil whatever, except with the safe of the low wines still, by means of one close metal pipe externally visible for its whole , length, attached to and leading directly from such safe at the end of such worm, and fixed into such spirit receiver in such manner as that all spirits running therein from such safe shall run directly and be discharged therefrom into such spirit receiver without resting in the said pipe; and in every such spirit receiver there shall either be a pump placed and fixed for emptying the same, or a proper discharging cock for drawing off the spirits therefrom ; and that each and every such charger and receiver shall be erected and kept in a convenient and public situation in the still-house, or to the approbation of the Commissioners of Excise, and exposed to open view, and easy of access and inspection to the surveying officer on all parts thereof; and each such charger and receiver respectively

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respectively shall have a sufficient cover thereon, with a rectangular dipping hole cut in such cover, not more nor less than an inch square, and in which dipping hole there shall be placed such dipping rod as shall be provided by the proper officer, who shall secure such rod in such manner as to him shall seem expedient to prevent the removal thereof out of any such charger or receiver." I mention this to show that there is not a single utensil put up in our premises which .is not put up according to the directions of the Excise, and for the purposes only of collecting the duty.

Mr. J. Currie.

8554. And you cannot alter any one of them under any circumstances ?â&#x20AC;&#x201D; Under a very heavy penalty ; the Act says, " And if any charger, or receiver, or pipe therefrom, or cock therein shall be made use of in the distillery of any distiller, which shall not be erected, kept, and constructed in manner herein directed, or which shall have any hole therein, except the trap door in the cover thereof, properly secured by the officer for examining or cleansing such receiver respectively, or any communication with any other vessel or utensil whatsoever, other than as by this Act is required, authorized, and allowed, then and in every such case, such distiller shall forfeit the sum of 200 /., and also the sum of 20 I. for every day during which such charger, or receiver, or pipe, or cock shall remain in the distillery of such distiller." That will give the Committee some slight idea of the restrictions to which we are subjected in erecting our distillery. 8555. Practically have there been any improvements carried out in the manufacture since that Act was passed ?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;There has been an apparatus invented for distilling, which the Excise have given us permission to use, under certain restrictions, which are these: that they maintain to themselves the power of stopping the use of the apparatus, or in other words stopping our distillery at any time they may suspect that such utensil has been in any way instrumental to the evasion of the duty. This apparatus is a very clever apparatus indeed ; it is generally used, I believe universally used, in England ; the principal gain is a very great saving of fuel, and also a saving of time. 8556. Did the Excise at once permit the introduction of that improvement upon its being first discovered ?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;Yes, under tin se restrictions ; and the restriction was accompanied by notice that when such apparatus was used the worm end, through which all the spirits passed, should be locked up and secured by the lock of the Excise, which in other cases was not necessary. Then, with respect to the still, the 20th clause enacts " that every distiller shall provide, and fix, to the satisfaction of the supervisor, a proper discharge cock, or plug and plug-hole, in every fermenting wash back, through which cock or plughole the wash in such wash back shall from time to time be conveyed by a main pipe or open trough, into the jack back, if any, or into the wash charger; and such main pipe or trough shall be placed and fixed in such manner that all wash or liquor put therein shall forthwith run and be discharged from thence into such jack back or wash charger, as the case may be, and not elsewhere, except by a sewer cock fixed on such main pipe, and properly secured and fastened; and there shall not be any other pipe or conveyance entering into or passing out of any such wash fermenting back, except the pipe for conveying wort into such fermenting back from the coolers." The 21st clause is, "And be it further enacted, that every cock required by this Act to be kept or used shall be made and constructed in such manner as shall be from time to time prescribed and directed or approved by the Commissioners of Excise; and if any cock required by this Act to he kept or used shall be made, constructed, or used otherwise or differently than as shall at that time be directed, prescribed, or approved by the Commissioners of Excise, the distiller, rectifier, or compounder by whom such cock shall be kept or used shall forfeit the sum of 50 The 22d clause is, " And be it further enacted, that every distiller and rectifier or compounder shall, at his own expense and charge, provide, maintain, and keep the several utensils, cocks, pumps, pipes, and troughs which are required by this Act, and shall also provide, maintain, and keep, at the expense and charge of such distiller, rectifier, or compounder, proper and sufficient fastenings for securing the several cocks and plugs required by this Act to be secured, and for securing the covers of or belonging to the chargers and receivers hereinbefore mentioned respectively ; and also for securing the pumps, vessels, and utensils permitted, allowed, or required for the purposes mentioned in this Act; and it shall and may be lawful for 0.32. Q Q any

11 March 1848.

298

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

any officer of excise surveying the distillery of any distiller, to lock, secure, and fasten the several cocks, plugs, covers, pumps, pipes, vessels, and utensils 11 March 1848. for which fastenings are required to he provided, in such manner as the Commissioners of Excise may direct as aforesaid, and to keep the same, and each and every of them, so locked, secured, and fastened at all times, except when such officer shall be required, under the provisions of this Act, to attend, and shall attend to open and unlock the same." Therefore it is quite impossible for us to have access to our utensils unless before we do so we send up to the excise officer, and give him directions to come and attend. 8557. What notice is it necessary you should give ?—It does not say that we shall give any notice; but the excise officer, in the case of our distillery, lives between a quarter and half a mile off, Therefore, if upon any emergency we want to have access to any of the utensils which are locked up, we are obliged, let the consequences be what they may, to wait till this officer comes down to unlock the utensil. 8558. What is the character of those emergencies which are likely to occur? —If the back were to leak, we must let all the wash run out of that back by such leakage before we could take the plug out in order to convey it into another vessel; and we should be charged with duty upon that wash the same as if we had properly distilled it and made it into spirits. 8559. Though it all ran into the street?—Though it all ran into the street. I remember, at the time the inquiry was going on in Parliament last year, a vat containing a very considerable quantity of spirits, in my distillery, leaked. Luckily the warehouse clerk went in a short time afterwards, and hearing a dripping, found that this vat was leaking; but in the meantime, it had leaked between 300 and 400 gallons, upon all of which I had to pay duty, and I could not appeal against it, because it would be such a precedent for all persons appealing, when fraud might be intended, that, even if I could have appealed I would not have done it; but the Act says I must pay duty upon that the same as if it had gone out into consumption. Then the Act says, that all these utensils should be kept in proper repair and in proper condition, to the satisfaction of the supervisor of excise at the expense of the distiller; that they " shall from time to time be altered and repaired at the expense of. such distiller, rectifier, and compounder, as such officers shall require." Then it requires that the dipping place and vessel shall be in different positions; and if they are altered without the permission of the officers, there is a penalty of 200 I. If the position or size of the vessel is altered, there is another penalty of 400 l. Then it is enacted, "That every distiller, rectifier, or compounder, and dealer in spirits, shall cause to be legibly cut, branded, or painted, on the outside of both of the heads or ends of each rolling or moveable cask used by him or her for keeping or delivering out spirits; and shall at all times keep thereon so cut, branded, or painted, the full and true number of gallons which every such cask shall be capable of containing, together with his or her name or firm of trade, and the name of the place where his or her stock is kept; and every such cask which shall be found containing spirits, without the full and true number of gallons which the same is capable of containing, and the name and place aforesaid being so cut, branded, or painted thereon, together with the spirits contained therein, shall be forfeited, and shall and may be seized by any officer of excise." Therefore, if by any chance any cask, of which we generally send out from 100 to 200 a week, happens to go out without having the name and full contents branded upon it according to this Act, it is liable to be seized and forfeited to the excise. 8560. The whole of the casks ?—I believe the whole of the casks contained in the waggon. Then the Act say : " Be it further enacted, that together with every such account;" that is, the account of the utensils; "there shall be delivered a drawing or drawings, or description or descriptions, distinctly showing the course, direction, construction, and use of all fixed pipes to be used by any distiller, rectifier, or compounder, and of all and every branch and branches thereof, and of all and every cock and cocks therein, together, with every place, vessel, or utensil from, or to, or with which any such pipe shall lead or communicate;. and every pipe to be used by such distiller, rectifier, or compounder, except for the conveyance of water and spent wash only, shall be so fixed and placed as to be capable of being inspected and examined by the officer for and through the whole of its length or course, and shall be painted and kept painted as hereinafter Mr. J. Currie.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 299 after mentioned ; that is to say, every pipe for the conveyance of wort or wash shall be painted of a red colour, every pipe for the conveyance of low wines or feints shall be painted blue, every pipe for the conveyance of spirits shall be painted white, and every pipe for the conveyance of water shall be painted black; and if any pipe shall be used by any distiller, rectifier, or compounder, not set forth as aforesaid, or for any other purpose than shall be set forth as aforesaid, or which, except as aforesaid, shall not be fixed, or placed, or painted and kept painted as herein directed, or which shall be painted otherwise than as herein directed, such distiller, rectifier, or compounder shall forfeit the sum of 50 /." I think this is tying our hands pretty well; that is, as far as utensils go. Then we come to having the distillery and rectifying house separate; " And be it further enacted, that no person or persons whomsoever shall erect, set up, enter, or make use of any house or premises whatsoever, in England, for rectifying or compounding spirits, or for receiving or keeping spirits, by any rectifier or compounder of spirits, or for preparing wort or wash, or for making or distilling spirits, or for receiving or keeping spirits by any distiller or maker of spirits within the distance of one quarter of a mile in a direct line from any other house or premises which shall be entered or used for preparing wort or wash, or for making or distilling spiritsthat is, not only shall the rectifying distillery be a quarter of a mile from the corn distillery, but no corn distillery is to be within a quarter of a mile of another corn distillery. Then it goes on to say, " Nor shall any person or persons whomsoever erect, set up, enter, or make use of any house or premises whatsoever, in England, for preparing wort or wash, or for making or distilling spirits, or for receiving or keeping spirits, by any distiller or maker of spirits within the distance of one quarter of a mile in a direct line from any other house or premises which shall be entered or used for rectifying or compounding spirits, or for receiving or keeping spirits by any rectifier or compounder of spirits, or for preparing wort or wash," and so on, under a penalty of 500/. a week for every week that those premises are used. The clause makes it absolutely necessary that a rectifying house should be a quarter of a mile, in a direct line, separated from a corn distillery. Now we come to a still further restriction in the way of impediments to our manufacture. In the first place the Act begins by saying, " That it shall and may be lawful for any officer or officers of excise, at all times, as well by night as by day, to enter into every house, distillery, still-house, out-house, and place whatsoever, of or belonging to or made use of by any distiller of spirits, and to gauge, measure, and take an account of every still or other vessel, or utensil of any kind, of or belonging to or kept therein by any such distiller ; and to gauge and take an account of the quantity and strength of all spirits, low wines, and feints, which shall be from time to time made or distilled, and of the quantity and gravity of all wort and wash which shall be from time to time made use of in the distillery of such distiller." But the consequence of this is, that the excise officers are obliged, in order to do their duty, consequently to take account of our work as it proceeds. The law obliges them to go into the room where we keep our fermenting backs ; and in order to do that, they are obliged to open the door, for the gas is so powerful that it would choke them ; they are obliged, therefore, to open the door, in order to take an account of the process of fermentation ; consequently, in cold weather, it lets the cold air in, and the fermentation is checked, and great loss is sustained by the trader in consequence of the officer coining into the room, which would otherwise be closed up. 856 J. You cannot open the door to let in any cold air without doing more or less injury ?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;In cold weather we cannot; it depends upon the temperature of the atmosphere to a certain extent; but in cold weather and in different parts of the process it would be greatly to our advantage to keep our fermenting rooms in a particular state of temperature; that we are not enabled to do, because the officer by this Act is obliged to have access to those rooms at all times of the day or night. The officer therefore may do the trader an immense injury. 8562. And he is amenable to no one?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;He is authorized by this Act to do it; it is no stretch of duty at all; he may do it any time without the trader having the smallest ground for complaint. Then the Act says, that " in case any officer of excise, after having demanded admittance into the distillery of any distiller, rectifier or compounder, and having declared his name and business 0.32. Q Q 2

697 Mr. J. Currie. 11 March 1848.

300 Mr. J. Currie. 11 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

ness at, the gate or entrance door, or at any window of such distillery, shall not be immediately and without delay admitted into such distillery, such distiller, rectifier, or compounder shall, for every such offence, forfeit the sum of 200 I"; " and if such officer shall not be immediately and without delay admitted," for every such offence the distiller shall forfeit 200 I.; and it is lawful also for the officer on being refused admittance " to break open by force any of the doors or windows, or break through any of the walls of such distillery, as shall be necessary to enter such distillery." Then in the next clause it is enacted, " that if, on demand of any officer of excise, made in the distillery of any distiller, or in the entered premises of any rectifier or compounder of spirits, strong, safe, and convenient ladders shall not be provided, and Conveniently and firmly placed, and of length sufficient to enable the surveying officer to ascend to and examine, and descend from any vessel or utensil in any such distillery or rectifying or compounding house or premises, or to gauge or ascertain the content or capacity of any vessel or utensil therein ; or if any such ladder shall not be fixed at or in any part of such vessel or utensil where such officer shall require; or if on any visits made by any officer of excise, on demand of any such officer, sufficient lights and sufficient aid or assistance shall not be supplied, there is a penalty of 100 I.; then comes the prohibition of the choice of materials: " Be it further enacted, that it shall not be lawful for any distiller to make or brew at the same time any wort or wash, or to make or distil any spirits from malt, corn, or grain, or any mixture thereof, and from sugar or potatoes, or any mixture thereof respectively, or to make or brew any wort or wash, or distil any spirits from any other materials whatsoever; and if any such distiller shall at the same time make or brew any wort or wash, or shall make or distil any spirits from malt, corn, or grain, or any mixture thereof, and from sugar or potatoes, or any mixture thereof respectively, or shall at any time make or brew any wort or wash, or distil any spirits from any other materials whatsoever, such distiller shall forfeit the sum of 200 I. ; and all such wort, wash, and spirits shall be forfeited, and may be seized by any officer of excise." 8563. Has there not been some relaxation as regards the admission of molasses ?—No; there was a Bill passed last year to permit the use of sugar in distilleries, but we are not allowed to make the best use of that sugar, inasmuch as we are not allowed to mix the sugar with corn, and we are only allowed to use it under certain restrictions, the same sort of restrictions as this Act prescribes. We are not allowed to use molasses at all. 8564. Was that Act of last year practically inoperative as far as sugar was concerned, or did you avail yourselves of it ?—it would depend upon the relative price of sugar and corn. If sugar is very cheap and corn is very dear, it will be to the interest of the distiller to use sugar, but not otherwise. 8565. Can you state practically what quantity of sugar you yourself have used, corn having been very clear and sugar very cheap; what amount of sugar have you been enabled to use during the last year?—We were virtually prohibited from the use of sugar at all, because that Act said that no distiller should be allowed to use sugar as long as be had any corn or meal upon his premises; the consequence was, that we must have taken all the corn and meal away from our premises before we could have used any sugar. Again, we should not have gone back to the corn or meal while we had any sugar upon our premises. Therefore we must have been silent the whole time we were removing our corn or meal, and vice versa, which would have been a matter of very considerable loss; in short, it amounted to a prohibition. 8566. Did you use no sugar?—We made, and I believe two or three English distillers made one or two experimental brewings, by permission of the Excise, in order to ascertain what, the real produce of spirits from sugar was; but it was expressly contrary to that Act, because we had corn upon our premises. The permission only extended to two or three experimental brewings. 8567. What were the results of those experiments ?—The results of the experiments were pretty much the same as the experiments made by the Commissioners of Excise. We extracted from 11 gallons to 11 1/2 gallons of spirits from a cwt. of sugar. There is a paper here which was laid upon the table of 'I he House last, year, which shows the relative price of spirits to the different prices of barley and sugar. When barley is at 38 s sugar must be at less than 22s. in order to make it worth while for the distiller to use it; because when barley

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barley is at 38 s. the cost of a gallon of spirits would be, at 19 gallons to the Mr. J. Currie. cwt., 2s. a gallon ; when sugar is at 22 s., at 11 gallons to the cwt., the price would also be 2s a gallon; therefore sugar at 22s. and barley at 38s. would 11 March 1848, about be on a par. But then there is a loss in making spirits from sugar, inasmuch as the refuse is of very little value. After the saccharine is extracted from the corn the grains sell for a very considerable sum of money; they are used for feeding cattle. Of course there are no grains from sugar, and all we have from sugar is the wash, which we have also from corn spirits ; then, to set against that, there is undoubtedly less cost of labour in making spirits from sugar than there is from corn, because there is no grinding and no occasion to heat water in such quantities to mash the sugar that there is with corn. 8568. Is the spirit as fine, or finer ?—For certain purposes the spirit is as fine. It is quite as pure spirit as from grain ; it is not a spirit the rectifiers like so well, because it is rather different from grain spirits, and they say it is not so well adapted for the purposes of making gin as corn spirit; but I do not attach much importance to that. 8569. If you could mix sugar with corn, do you apprehend you could make a finer spirit ? - Undoubtedly. If we could mix sugar and corn, it would improve the quality of the spirit immensely. 8570. Of both spirits"—That is a matter of opinion; we have never been allowed to try it; I should say it would. 8571. The restrictions of the excise prevent your attempting it ?—Entirely. The next clause in the Act of Parliament is to the same effect: " Be it further enacted, that every distiller who shall, under the regulations of this Act, intend or, desire to distil spirits from worts or wash, brewed and made from sugar or potatoes only, shall, six days before he commence to brew or make any wort or wash, give notice in writing to the proper officer surveying such distillery, in which notice shall be.stated that such distiller intends to use sugar or potatoes only, not being mixed with any other materials whatever." This is the part which presses so much: " And if at any time after such notice shall have been given, any corn, grain, or malt, ground or bruised, or other material for distillation, except sugar or potatoes, according to such notice as aforesaid, shall be found in such distillery, or in any store, mill, or other premises thereto belonging, or if any wort or wash made of any materials, save and except sugar or potatoes only, as the case may be, according to such notice, shall be found in the distillery of such distiller, or in any store belonging to such distillery, then, and in each and every such case, such distiller shall (except in the case hereinafter provided) forfeit the sum of 200 IThat totally prevents the possibility of our using sugar; and that clause is also inserted in the Act of last year. Then, in the next clause the Act says, that if we begin using sugar or potatoes, we must go on using sugar and potatoes for one month ; we are not allowed to go back to corn, but we are obliged for at least one calendar month to go on using them, and we must give six days' notice before we commence with grain. 8572. Therefore if you have not sale sufficient for a month's manufacture of sugar spirits, you cannot manufacture sugar spirits at all?—Exactly so. 8573. What is the practical objection to leaving you free to use sugar concurrently with corn, without any of those restrictions?—The difficulty of ascertaining the produce; you can ascertain the produce of the corn, and you can ascertain the produce of the sugar, but the process is so entirely different, that the Excise think that they would have no means of collecting the duty if they allowed the use of corn and sugar together. I am not alluding to these restrictions as complaining of their being unnecessary. I believe them to be entirely necessary for the collection of the duty. 8,574. You do not think that the duty could be securely collected if they were abolished ?—I do not. J think the laws have been made from time to time according to the necessity which the officers of the excise, who are generally experienced men, have seen in order to protect the duty: all I mean to say is, that if those restrictions do amount to what we say they amount to, we are entitled to compensation to that amount. Then as to distilling in alternate periods, it is said, " And for more effectually securing the duties on spirits granted by this Act, and regulating the process of distillation of such spirits, be it enacted, that in the distillery of every distiller the periods of brewing and distilling I Q 3

302

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

distilling shall always be alternate and distinct periods, one to be called the brewing period and the other the distilling period, and that no wort, wash, low 11 March 1848. wines, or feints shall be distilled in any such distillery, and that no still in any such distillery shall be made use of from the commencement of any such brewing period until twelve hours after the expiration thereof, that is to say, from the commencement of any process of wetting, brewing, or mashing any malt, corn, or grain, or sugar, or potatoes, until twelve hours after every such process shall have ceased, and all the wort or wash in such distillery shall have been collected into the fermenting backs in such distillery; and that no malt, or corn, or grain, or sugar, or potatoes, shall be wetted, brewed or mashed, nor shall any wort or wash be made or produced in any distillery during any distilling process." That is to say, we may not brew and distil at the same time, which obliges us to have premises of more than double the requisite capacity, because we are obliged to keep every distillation separate, which causes a great waste of fuel, and also a great waste of time. 8575. How many hours in the week do you lose by that arrangement ?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;We must complete the brewing process before we begin distilling. The consequence is, that in hot weather, for instance, the acetous fermentation sometimes commences in the backs and the vinous fermentation ceases. If we could distil those backs at that time we should of course do so, but we are obliged to wait until the whole of our backs are brewed, and for twelve hours afterwards, before we can commence distilling. The consequence is, that loss is sustained by our not being able to take the backs to the still at the time they are ready to be distilled. 8576. They become sour?â&#x20AC;&#x201D;Yes, and of course the spirit in the wort becomes less; and so, in cold weather, it is necessary sometimes to keep them longer. They are not ready to go to the still at the time we are obliged to take them, and loss occurs sometimes in consequence of that. Then, as to the gravity or strength of the wort which we use, we are only allowed to use wort of a certain strength, and it is said, " every distiller shall from time to time, at least six hours before he shall mash or brew as aforesaid, deliver to the proper officer of excise a notice in writing, in which shall be set forth the day and hour when such mashing or brewing is to be commenced and made, and shall then, or within six hours after any such brewing shall be finished, deliver as aforesaid the true quantity and weight of the materials intended to be, or which shall have been used or employed, and whether grain, or sugar, or potatoes respectively ; and in case any mashing or brewing of any materials is commenced or made in the distillery of any distiller without such notice having been given as aforesaid, such distiller shall forfeit the sum of 50 l." " And be it further enacted, that every distiller, after having made such entry as is by this Act required, shall, before commencing to brew or make any wort, and in like manner every such distiller who shall at any time have discontinued making or brewing any wort for any longer period than one calendar month shall, before commencing to make or brew any wort, give six days' notice in writing to the supervisor or officer surveying the distillery of such distiller, in which notice shall be set forth the day on which and sorts of materials within which such distiller intends to commence or recommence (as the case may be) making or brewing wort, and specifying the gravity of the wort or wash intended to be made in the distillery of such distiller, and in any such notice such gravity as specified shall not be less than 50 degrees, nor more than 90 degrees." The consequence of that is, that if we find that, in order to get a better produce from our corn, we should brew at 40 degrees of gravity, we are not allowed to do it. We are not allowed to give our notice, except between those degrees of strength, from 40 to 90 degrees of gravity. What is called our annual balance (that is, the charge upon our spirits) is made at one gallon of spirits from five degrees of attenuation between the notice gravity and water, whether we produce that quantity of spirit or not. Therefore, if we choose to brew at less notice than this, we are charged with the spirits upon that notice, whether we make them or not. That is one of the clauses which prevents improvements. Then there is another and very material clause indeed, which is with respect to the yeast. Under the old Act, we used to find considerable benefit from adding yeast at different times to our fermentation. We are not allowed to do that under the present Act. The present Act says, we shall put in the yeast at certain stated periods, and at those Mr J. Currie.

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303

701

those periods only; we shall not put in yeast in such a manner as may be Mr. J. Cur tit. most convenient to us for carrying on our business, but that " no yeast, or barm, or bub, or other matter or thing capable of causing fermentation, shall 11 March 1848. be added to or mixed with the wort, or allowed to be in such fermenting hack, for the space of two hours next after such wort shall have been collected in such fermenting back or backs, and reduced as herein directed, and after such declaration shall have been given thereof as aforesaid, unless the proper officer shall within such two hours have taken an account of the quantity and gravity of such wort." 8577. You lose by being prohibited the use of your own yeast ?—We are not allowed to take from or add anything to our fermenting backs beyond the yeast which is here mentioned. 8578. You are obliged to let your own yeast run to waste ?—Undoubtedly. Our own yeast, after the process of fermentation has subsided, sinks to the bottom of the back, and is perfectly useless. I believe there are parts of the fermentation during which it would assist the fermentation considerably if some portion of that yeast were taken off, and that might be applied to the other backs. It is quite well known that distillers' yeast is much more valuable than brewers' yeast, inasmuch as it is purer, and free from the flavour of hops. A greater proof of that cannot be given, than that the German yeast which is sold in this country to make pastry, and things of that kind, is distillers' yeast, and it is totally free from that hop flavour which the brewers' yeast has. If we were allowed to use our own yeast, we should not only have enough for our own use, but have a considerable sale for this yeast, which we are now deharred from, 8579. You are obliged to let your own yeast run to waste and purchase an inferior yeast at a cost which some of you reckon at a penny, but which you reckon, I think, at three farthings a gallon ?—Yes; that yeast is of no use to fermentation at the time of its formation. 8,580. For every gallon of spirits that is made, a penny or three farthings is wasted ?—It may be stated to be a penny, because a penny a gallon is considered by distillers generally to be the expense of the yeast; then we go on. If by any chance the true gravity of the work should not be declared, there is a penalty of 200 l. Then there is a clause which says that " eight hours before any wash shall be conveyed from any fermenting wash back in the distillery of any distiller, a notice in writing shall be given to the proper officer, by or on behalf of such distiller, in which shall be stated the number of the back in which such wash is contained, and the day and hour when such wash is to be removed, and such officer shall attend at the time specified in such notice, and after he shall have locked the charging cock or cocks of the wash still or stills, he shall remove all such fastenings as prevent the conveyance of such wash from any back, mentioned in such notice, into the wash charger, and thereupon, forthwith and without delay, all the wash which shall be contained in such fermenting wash back, or so much of such wash as such charger shall be capable of containing, shall he conveyed into such charger in manner prescribed in this Act." Therefore, if in eight hours we find our back is ready to be distilled sooner than we had anticipated, we must let it remain till the other backs are distilled, of which we have given notice to t he officers. Then," Be it enacted, that it shall and may be lawful for any such officer as aforesaid, and he is hereby authorized and empowered to take and convey away out of such distillery, from any wash back or charger in the distillery of any distiller, a sample not exceeding the quantity of 20 gallons of the wash contained in any such back or charger, and to cause such sample of wash to be distilled into low wines in any still provided for that purpose by the Commissioners of Excise, and such officer shall gauge or measure the quantity, and ascertain the strength of the low wines produced by the distillation of such wash." That is to say, the officer, supposing he makes a mistake in his calculation, is authorized to take 20 gallons of our wash and re-distil that wash, .and make his charge upon it according to his distillation. 8581. Has that praclically been proved to be any great grievance? —I do not think it has, because the excise officers are very particular in taking the gravity of the wash in the fermenting backs. If the produce of the wash distilled exceeds the proportion of one gallon and a quarter of proof spirits for every five degrees of attenuation, we are subject to a penalty of 200 l.; therefore 0.32. Q Q4

304

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

fore if we get rather better produce than usual, and instead of one gallon of spirits for five degrees of attenuation, we are, from any circumstances, able to 11 March 1848. get over the one gallon and a quarter, we are subject to a penalty of 200 I.; that is a prohibition of itself against all attempts at improvement. There are several other restrictions; for instance, with respect to the waste of time in the distillery, the Act says, "Low wines, spirits, and feints, produced from wash in each back to be kept separate until account thereof," under a penalty of 200I. 'Therefore at the end of every back we are obliged to put out our fires, to work our spirits clean oft' and let them go into the receiver, and an account of them must be taken by the officers before we can commence another back of wash ; the consequence of that is a very great waste of fuel and great waste of time. 8582. What do you reckon the waste of fuel is in the course of a year; how often have you to allow your furnaces to go out?—In the course of five davs we have to allow them to go out more than three and twenty times. I think we have in our distillery about two or three and twenty backs ; at the end of distilling each of those backs we are obliged to let out our fires, and have an account of the contents of each back taken by the officers before we can begin distilling the next back. 8583. What quantity of coal do you use in the course of the year?—The quantity of coal used in the course of a year is much diminished "now by the new process of distillation. It varies in various distilleries ; it must also depend in a great measure upon the sort of coal that is used; economy of fuel is more studied by some distillers than by others. I remember the time when coals used to cost in our distillery very nearly 3d. a gallon, but then coals were much dearer and a larger quantity of them used ; it does not approach to anything like that now. Then there are the modes of charging duty. There are three modes of charging duty ; the first is by the per centage from wash, as to which, as I stated just now, if we do not get one gallon of spirits from five degrees of attenuation we are charged for it; if we get more than one from 5 1/4 degrees we are under a penalty; then if at the end of the year they find that the quantity of spirits between the " notice gravity " and water does not amount to one gallon from five degrees of attenuation, we are also charged with duty. We are also charged with duty if by any accident there is any leakage in our utensils, or if a waggon happens to break down in the streets, and a cask leaks out in the street, we have still the whole duty to pay. 8584. Practically does that often occur?—I gave the Committee an instance just now of its happening in my distillery by the leakage of a vat, to the amount of 300 or 400 gallons of spirits; and the wash backs are constantly leaking; we are constantly losing wash from our fermenting backs. In consequence too of the excise officers having access to all parts of the distillery, if we make any improvement in our mode of working it is known immediately. We have no private benefit from it, because it is known, not to one man, but to the 20 or 30 officers that survey our distillery ; and of course we are prevented getting any individual advantage from any improvement which we may make in our work. Then again with respect to increase and decrease in our stock, the gauge of the spirits is taken in the spirit receiver. From the spirit receiver it is moved into our stock, and if the quantity of spirits found in our stock is not as large as the quantity taken in the receiver, the duty is charged upon the spirits taken in the receiver, and not upon the stock. 8585. The excise officer gauges the spirits in the receiver, does not he ?— Yes. 858b. And if he holds the gauge a little more upright, or a little less upright, he makes the gauge some 20 gallons more or less ?—If he happens to do that, and then comes into our stock and takes the spirit again, and finds those 20 gallons there, we are liable to a penalty of 20 s. a gallon upon the excess. * 8587. Mr. Goutturn.] Did that ever happen to you ?—We take especial care it shall not; because we have our own people to take an account in the spirit receiver with the officers. I think I remember its happening once when we had a slight increase in our stock, but it is not a very usual occurrence; because we, for our own sakes, take care that we shall not be charged for more duty in the receiver than we justly ought to pay. 8588. Chairman.] Mr. J. Currie.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

305

703

8588. Chairman^] The necessity of being on your guard incurs an expense, Mr. J Currie. probably ?—Undoubtedly. We should have no necessity otherwise for keeping the number of clerks and servants that we do, because they are kept quite as 11 March 1848 much to look after the officers of excise, and to see that they do not charge us more than we ought to be charged ; three-fourths of their time, I should say, is taken up in that way. 8589. In guarding yourself against the infringements of the law?—Undoubtedly. "We are obliged to give very high salaries to men who will watch day by day and hour by hour to see that we do not incur the severe penalties this Act subjects us to, and it requires great care and vigilance to prevent those penalties from being incurred. 8590. Does it ever happen to you that the excise officer gauges a larger amount of contents in the receiver than are afterwards proved to be in the stock ?—I stated just now that the gauge in the receiver is always taken by the officers in the presence of one of our own servants. We give notice to the officers when the spirits are ready to be taken ; previous to that we have no access to the receiver at all. The officer then comes and takes the dip of the receiver, and also ascertains the strength of the spirit, in the presence of our clerk; therefore it is not likely, unless the clerk neglects his duty, that we should be liable to an excess. 8591. You have not explained what you estimate the loss to be of putting out your fires ?—One distilling period lasts, in most distilleries, a week ; with us it lasts five days. In those five days we distil 23 backs of wash. 8592. Do you mean to say that in the course of a year you are obliged to extinguish your fires 1,380 times, in obedience to those restrictive laws of the excise ?— I think not so many as that. We can only distil every alternate week; five days a fortnight we are distilling. 8593. Why are you only able to distil five days in a fortnight ?—Because we are not allowed to distil till we have finished our brewing period. 8594. You would distil and brew at the same time but for those restrictions ? —Decidedly. 8595. Instead of distilling five days in 14, you would distil 12 days in 14?— Our distilling was formerly continuous; we distilled Sundays and every day in the week; our still fires would be very seldom extinguished. Supposing we were to use the present apparatus without those restrictions, it is very probable we should never have occasion to put out the fires at all; a continual supply of wash would go through the apparatus, and we should lose no fuel and no time from keeping the distillations separate, which by this Act we are obliged to do. 8396. So that it is about 585 times you are obliged to extinguish your fires, entirely from the restrictions imposed upon you by that Act?—Yes; in five days out of 14 we are obliged to extinguish our fires 23 times. The patent process of distillation is done by steam; the fire is applied to the steam-boiler, the steam passes through the wash, and all the spirituous vapour flies off and is condensed in another part of the apparatus. The fires we extinguish are the fires of the steam-boiler. Then there are the duties paid on deficiencies in the warehouse, and I should add also that this is not the only waste that is incurred by distillation. In order to get all the spirits off from this still, we are obliged to work the still for two hours with water only; we are obliged to mix water with the wash in order to get the spirit entirely out, and to work with that water for two hours in each distillation. 8597. Is that 23 times in a fortnight ?—Yes; we worked a back of wash off in five hours by this apparatus; out of those five hours two hours are thus consumed, which need not be so consumed if we were able to work continuously. 8598. Sir E. Buxton] The wages of your men are going on all that time ? —Undoubtedly. 8599. Chairman.) All that is lost time and lost wages upon your whole establishment ?—Certainly. 8600. Do you work 24 hours round those five days ?—Generally ; if the distillery is at full work we do ; it depends upon the quantity of spirits we require. 8601. Your men are standing looking on during that time?—They are obliged to be kept employed in some way, but they are employed unprofitable to us, wasting our time and our fuel. Then there are the restrictions also with 0.32. R R respect

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

306

Mr. J. Currie. 11 March 1848.

respect to the rectifiers; the restrictions do not end here; the restrictions upon the rectifiers are very onerous and very expensive. With reference to the permits and other things, there are a great many like disadvantages, but I think I have read to the Committee now the principal part of the restriction8 that apply to corn distillation. LIST

PENALTIES

imposed by Act 6 Geo. 4, c. 80.

Section of the Act.

Penalties.

ÂŁ. s. d. 3

Licence duty annually

-------

And stock and utensils forfeited.

If licence not renewed annually

Persons not to be licensed as distillers, unless occupying a house or tenement of the yearly value of 20 l, and shall pay parish rates for the same, (except any distillery established and licensed on the 5th day of April 1825,) Which nor unless situate within or within one quarter of a mile' many thousandstock p forand plant and of a market town, containing at least 500 inhabited feited. houses; and any person using such distillery contrary to the above, will be subject to all the pains and penalties incurred as using an unlicensed distillery -

No person to keep a still of less content than 400 gallons,"! 100 - or to use in any distillery more than two wash stills, and And for every time such still additional two low wine stills ; if he keeps any still of less content 100 l. and still forfeit than 3,000 gallons, penalty -J

Distiller not to brew or make use of a still from eleven! o'clock on Saturday night to one o'clock on the next I ------J Monday morning If above a certain number of utensils erected -

If utensils, pipes, cocks,

Having a hole in a utensil contrary to law If worm end not secured when required by officer If discharge-cock of still not secured, or contrary to law If cock not constructed according to law Proper discharge-cock or plug to each back, or forfeit If cocks and fastenings not made to the officer's approval Metal plate to be kept fixed at dipping-places, or forfeit If plate at dipping places be altered or removed If size or position of vessels be altered Water to be drawn off from worm tubs on demand, or forfeit Marks, numbers, &tc. to be kept on casks, or If stores and utensils not marked according to law If utensils entered lor more than one purpose If utensils or stores not entered If distillery erected within a quarter of a mile of another"! ... -j distillery or rectifying house If distiller make beer, sweets, or vinegar Distiller to affix a board with his name, Sic, over the gate"] of the distillery, or forfeit -J Distiller preventing officer from entering distillery by day or night, or obstructing him, foreits -J If admittance be not given to officer on demand If ladders, lights, and assistance be not given to officer on demand Distiller working from sugar and other materials at the same time, forfeits Distiller using grain after notice to use sugar

If wash spirits or feints be removed contrary to law -

Distiller must brew and distil at alternate periods, or forfeit.

19 21 20

23 24

25 26 28

29 31

33 34 35 36 38 40

41 42

Sic. not fixed according to law

5Â°

200

200 y And for every day are in use, 20 l. 200 200 -

50 50 200 200 200

200 200

Goods

forfeited.

5Â°

200 500

500

200

100

200

200 - gallon every Or 20J. for removed.

500

distil

ler This compels the to have his premises and utensils double the size he would otherwise require them to be

705

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 307

Mr. J. Currie.

Section

of the Act.

Penalties.

200

ÂŁ. 50

Notice to be given of each brewing, or forfeit And produce to be kept separate, or forfeit

Six days' notice to brew or re-commence brewing

Declaration of worts to be given before yeast is put into 200 the back, and wait two hours if the officer does not] This causes a loss equal to about 2 d. per gallon sooner attend - of spirits made. Officer finding an increase of wort or gravity after declara200 - tion, whether caused by accident or otherwise -J

11 March 1848.

200

Officer finding increase of wort in fermentation above five) And double duty. This per cent., or increase of gravity above declaration -] limits the quantity of

The quantity of bub to be used not to exceed five per cent.] on the wash in the backs, nor the gravity in the brewing] J notice

yeast to be used to five per cent.

Declaration to be given that all the worts are in the backs'] at the end of the brewing period, and distiller is not allowed to begin distilling for 12 hours from that time -

200

Eight hours' notice required before removal of wash

200

Low wines receiver to be cleaned out on demand, &c.

200

If produce of low wines exceed 1 1/4 gallon of spirits per centum of wash lor every five degrees of gravity atte--------nuated

Removing wash from the back before the last wash removed ------be all in the stills

-j

Wash to be charged without allowance for waste

Anything mixed with the spirits which might deceive the"! officer in taking the strength

If the produce of spirits shall exceed 1 1/5 gallon per centum of washfor every five degrees attenuated, no credit to be given to distiller for the extra quantity produced, but the duty must be paid lhereon ; and if the spirits produced in the entire year be less than cue gallon per centum of wash for every five degrees of the notice gravity, the duty must be paid on the deficiency -

Duly charged to be paid when ordered by the Excise, or forfeit

73 75

Declaration to be made at the end of period, or forfeit

Correct scales and weights and a gallon measure to be kept

Assistance to be given to the officer when required -

Spirits received in distiller's stock, but not made on his ----premises

Penalty on increase of spirits in stock, or decrease above a certain amount --------

Not to send out less than 80 gallons of spirits in any one cask, nor without a legal permit -

0.32.

R R 2

200 - And 6 d. per gallon on t h wash.

200

If a back of wash should burst, and the wash be lost, or premises' burnt down, the duty must be paid. 200

This in some instances amounts to a very considerable sum.

20 - And double duty. 200

200 - And spirits forfeited.

100 - 50

1 l. per gallon, and increase forfeited. The loss of duty paid on spirits absorbed or evaporated is equal to 2d. per gallon on the whole amount of spirits actually sent out.

200 And goods forfeited.

8602.

The

308 M

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

The duty is paid as it leaves the worm mouth, is it not ?—Yes. Those restrictions operate very prejudicially to the rectifier, and form March 1848. part of the 6 d. a gallon which you complain of ?—They do. 8603. Part of the 6d. is given in consideration of the rectifier's charges?— Yes. In those statements I have confined myself entirely to the restrictions which are laid upon us by the excise laws, from which the colonial distiller i entirely and totally free, as I believe; I have not heard any evidence which make me think that the colonial distiller is under anything like the restrictions we are. We should be extremely happy, I am sure there is not a distiller in England who would not be very happy, that the whole differential duties should be done away with, provided those restrictions were taken off; if we were allowed to make our spirits in any manner we liked, and to use any materials we thought proper in making them, we feel that we should have no claim whatever for any differential duty. 8604. If you were allowed to distil and rectify under the same process?—No. 1 mean that every restriction should be taken off, and that we should be allowed to use any materials we liked ; we should be then very glad to see the duty equalized. 8605. Have you a statement of the superfluous cost which is imposed upon you by the necessity of setting up two establishments, one for rectifying and one for distilling ?—I have a statement which was submitted by the English distillers here against, the passing of the Customs Duties Bill, in which the burden to which the English distiller is subject is taken at 1 s. 4 £ d. In consequence of the reduction of the rectifier's expenses from 6d. to 3d., and another alteration which was made by your Lordship, not allowing the duty on barley, 2 A. a quarter, it reduces the differential duty to 1 A. - £ d. I am quite able to say that those sums, instead of being overstated, are considerably understated. I believe very many of those restrictions of the excise are in this paper very much understated indeed. I should begin with the duty on barley, 2 A. a quarter. I cannot but think that if the Government impose a duty of 2 A. a quarter upon the importation of foreign barley, which 2A. a quarter is equal to more than 1 d. a gallon, we have a perfect right to say that it enhances the expense of our material by 1 d. a gallon. The next item is for inalt used, I 1 1/2 d. a gallon. I have no hesitation in saying that that is considerably understated, because although I do not pretend to say that the malt actually used by distillers amounts to more than 1 £ d. a gallon, I do say that there are restrictions upon the making of that malt which considerably enhance the price of it, which ought therefore to be taken into consideration. Mr. Huskisson, I believe, stated that those restrictions upon the manufacture of malt amounted to 50 per cent. 8606. Sir E. Buxton.'] Do you mean that the tax being 20 A. a quarter, the restriction was equal to 10 A. ?—It was 50 per cent, upon the cost of the manufacture ; what Mr. Huskisson said I think was this, that the restrictions in the manufacture of malt enhanced the cost of the manufacture of that malt, the converting barley into malt, by 50 per cent. 8607. Chairman.] Exclusive of any charge of that kind, you still make out that 1 A. - £ d. are the fair charges to be laid against the various restrictions of the excise ?—Certainly, 1 A. - A d is the very lowest; I think that this is in many instances understated, particularly in one instance with respect to this malt, because we are precluded from using the quantity of malt which we otherwise should use. Malt is used in the distillery in order to make a better fermentation, in order to get a better extract from the other corn ; that is the principal use of malt in the fermentation ; we have often found that when the corn works badly, when it is hard and does not work well, the work is immensely benefited by using a greater proportion of malt, and in that way we obtain a greater produce in proportion than by using a small proportion of malt. We are obliged, however, from the malt duty, to use as small a quantity as we can; if there were no duty on malt, there is no question but that we should use a greater proportion of malt than we do now. Then there are the various restrictions of excise; such as an increased extent of plant owing to the alternation of brewing and distilling, and the erection and maintenance of utensils; we put that at 1 d. I am sure that is as little as it can possibly be put at : as I have said before, when this Act passed I was obliged, in my distillery, to lay out upwards of 40,000 l. solely to comply with this Act, with no profit on earth to J G

urrie.

8602.

8602*.

707

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 309 to myself, nor to enable me to do a single fraction more work. If you charge five per cent, upon that outlay, and five per cent, for wear and tear, that of itself will come to 1 d. a gallon without taking this into consideration, which ought always to be borne in mind, that upon a very large plant there are additional taxes, and rates, and insurance; and all those items are included in this 1 d. 8608. Mr Goulburn.] Do you include taxes and rates in that 1 d. ?—No. I say that the larger the plant, of course the greater the amount of poor's-rates and taxes of all kinds, and the greater the wear and tear is upon it, and the greater the cost of insurance. All those items are included in this 1 d., which I say is considerably understated. We next come to the yeast, which might be obtained from fermentation in the distillery. I have no hesitation in saying that 1 think there are times during fermentation when the yeast caused by it might be taken away from the backs with great advantage; whereas we are obliged to buy it from the brewer, at a cost which is reckoned by most of the trade to be at 1 d. a gallon. We then come to the loss of material at the close of each period, loss of fuel by the interruption of distillation, impediments to successful fermentation, and labour in working the increased plant. It is impossible to say to what extent the impediments to successful fermentation are carried on, because we have no opportunity of trying what improvements we can make; we are totally prohibited from making experiments or improvements of any kind. We have improved to a slight degree in our work, and such slight improvements show us that improvements to a greater extent would take place, provided we were not hampered and cramped as we are by those restrictions. I am sure that, putting those last-mentioned disadvantages at 2 d. a gallon, they are very much underrated indeed. T hen the next thing is the duty on decreases, including occasional overcharges on short produce, which it appears from a Parliamentary paper is saved by the colonist, to the extent of 3 1/2 d. a gallon. I am far from wishing the Committee to understand that the decreases on our trade amount to 3 1/2 d. a gallon ; but what I mean to say is this, that I have here a Parliamentary paper by which it appears that in the year ending the 5th of January 1846, the amount of duty remitted on allowances for deficiencies and leakage on rum in bond amounted to 36,248 I. That, upon the quantity of 2,411,001 gallons, gives more than 3 J d. a gallon. If this number of gallons 8609. And nothing is allowed to you?—No. instead of being rum had been British spirit, we should have had 36,248 I. more duty to pay than the West Indian. 8610. Your spirits would not have wasted to that extent? —I do not know that they might not have wasted to that extent. I do not mean to say our decreases amount to 3 A d. a gallon; but what I mean to say is, that if I can prove by this Parliamentary Return that if the West Indian were placed in the same situation as we are he would have had 36,000 I. more duty to pay, he is in a better condition to compete with us by 3 I d. a gallon than if he had no allowance. 8611. Sir E. Buxton.] He is not in the same position as you are?—He is in a far better position. This is after it is put into bond till it is taken out into consumption. 8612. Both your spirits and the rum equally gain in value by keeping, and in proportion as the rum decreases by evaporation so it improves in quality ? — I do not say that our spirit would improve in proportion to the rum by keeping ; hut I believe it does improve very much. I have no doubt that evidence will be laid before the Committee by Scotch distillers which will prove that the spirit does improve in value very much by keeping, and that the waste by evaporation in keeping so long is also very great. 8613. Chairman.] You sell yours immediately ? —We sell ours immediately to the rectifier. We are prevented working at the time of the year which is most suitable to us, because, having to pay duty the moment the spirit is made, the interest upon the money and the loss by evaporation would be so great, that no price that we could get would remunerate us for keeping stock. 8614. The British distiller has to pay interest not only upon the value of the spirits, but upon the duty also ?—Yes. 8613. The holder of the rum is not subjected to that disadvantage ?—-No; he keeps his rum in bond, and pays the duty when he sells it. The fair thing 0.32. R R 3 would

Mr.

J. Carrie.

11 Mar,h .1848.

310

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

would be to oblige the rum to pay the duty upon being put into bond, in the same way that our duty is paid at the worm's end. 11 March 1848. 8616. Or let you both be charged by the quantity you put in bond, and pay the duty when it is taken out of bond?—Your Lordship will see the great danger of that. If we were obliged to pay the duty only upon the quantity taken out of bond, spirits might be taken out of our warehouse and get into consumption without paying duty at all. Whatever the number of sales may be, it would all get into consumption free of duty. If that allowance were made to us it would be an assistance to us; but the Committee will see the danger of it to the revenue. Then it must be remembered that our spirits when they go out of our warehouse are not, as rum is, in a state fit for consumption , they have to go to the rectifier's; there is the evaporation in the transit from our place to the rectifier's, and upon all their work ; and all these decreases must be allowed for before the spirit is converted into palatable spirit, the same as rum is. 8617. Upon this point you claim 3 £ d. ?—Upon this we claim 3 1/2 d. We say that the colonial distiller has an advantage over us of 3 1/2 d. a gallon. It does not matter a farthing whether our decreases are 3 A d., or what they are. There is an advantage which the colonial distiller has over us of 3 £ d. a gallon ; therefore I say, unless you oblige the colonial distiller to pay duty upon his rum when he puts it into bond, you have a right to consider that 3 1 d. as a duty to which we are subjected, and to which lie is not. 8618. Is it from leakage, or from evaporation, that the rum wastes so much? It is from leakage and evaporation ; it is from being brought over here at a high strength to suit their own convenience. The rum is brought over here at a much higher strength than we keep our spirits at, but that is for their own convenience. 8619. You have a money calculation there, have not you, exhibiting the effect of the present excise regulations?—Yes ; this is a statement which I had put into my hands yesterday. It is not a statement of my own, but it is a statement of one of the London distillers, which I have looked over, and as far as I can judge it is a fair statement, and I think it is a statement which is generally, I may say entirely, correct. I have compared the items of it with the charges in my own distillery, and I have every reason to think and believe that it is a fair and just statement. 8620. Will you give the details of it ?—This is a comparative statement, designed to show the practical effect of the present excise regulations in the grain distilleries of England. In order to do that, you must take a year's work in a distillery under the present system of excise restrictions. Estimating the grain used to be 40,000 quarters, it would produce 80,000 gallons of spirits. The grain that is used would be 32,000 quarters of barley, at 30 s., which would be 48,000/.; 4,000 quarters of malt, at 60 s., 12,000/.; and 4,000 quarters of oats, at 25 s., which would be 5,000/. Therefore, 40,000 quarters of corn, at 32 s. 6 d. a quarter, which is the average, would cost 65,000 /. ; that is, 1 s. 7 1/2 d. a gallon. The charges upon it would be as follows: Salaries and wages, 0,000/. (that I know to be correct, because my own labour alone, without any salaries, comes to more than 5,000 l.); coals, 4,000 /.; rent, and wear and tear, 4,500/.; yeast, 2,000/.; cartage, 1,500 /. 8621. Is that cartage to fetch the yeast ?—No; it is cartage of the spirits from the distillery to the rectifying house, which would be entirely unnecessary if we were allowed to rectify upon our own premises. Rates, taxes, and insurance, 700 /.; incidental charges, 3,800 /.; from which we deduct 4,000 l. for grains and wash, which leaves the charges at 17,500/.; making a total of 82,500 /. 1 hen the cost of the grain per gallon would be 1 s. 7 1/2 d., and the net charges, 5 1/4 d. ; being 2 s. - 3/4 d. a gallon. That is in a distillery under excise restrictions. To work the same distillery for one year, free from excise restrictions, the grain used would be 96,000 quarters, and the produce would be increased by the abolition of the excise restrictions to the amount of 10 per cent. Mr. Haig thinks, that if he were allowed to work at any gravity he liked, and to carry on his process of fermentation as he pleased, and to be without excise restrictions upon the manufacturing process, he would be able to get an increase of 10 per cent, over his present produce. The salaries and wages are put at 6,650/.; coals, 7,000/.; rent, and wear and tear, 4,500/.; yeast is nothing, because we conclude we should use our' own ; the cartage, 3,500 /.; Mr. J. Currie.

PLANTING. SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE

709

311

Mr. ./. Currie. rates, taxes, and 3,500 l.; that is a cartage of more than double the work; insurance and taxes, rent, The 3,800/. insurance, 550 l.; incidental charges, 11 March 1848. are taken at less, because we should not have to insure nor pay rates upon and wash such large premises ; that makes 26,000/. If from that the grains are deducted, and even 10 per cent, more taken off, that makes 8,640 l., for making a grand total of 1/3,360/. From that it appears, that the cost be charges would net the and grain per gallon would be 1 s. 5 73/100 d; would making 17 70/100 d against 2s.- i d. Then from the comparative result, it cost per gallon appear that we come to this conclusion, that with excise, the The increase caused by restricis 2S.-UL-, and, free from excise, Is. 7 3/4 d. tions, therefore, would he, 5 d.; add to this mat duty. 1 1/2 d. ; expense of hen we karate premises for rectification, 3 A.; that would bring it to 9 1/2 d. T equal to waste inbond, on duty from exempt must add the colonial spirits, made out 3 1/2 d., which brings out the countervailing duty to l s. 1 d. This is accounts, in a totally different way from the other method of making out the and it comes to within a small fraction of that amount. delivered in the Statement, which is as follows :] [ Tlx, COMPARATIVE STATEMENT

Excise Regulations in the Grain designed to show the Practical Effect of the present Distilleries of England.

Work the same distillery for one year, free from Excise Take a year's work in a large distillery, under the pre- restrictions. The grain used would be 96,000 quarters, sent system of Excise restrictions; estimate the grain user and the produce would be increased at least 10 per cent., to be 10,000 quarters, and the produce, in spirit, 800,000 which gives 2,112,000 gallons. gallons. £. Barley - 32,000 quarters, at 30 s. 60 s. „ Malt - - 4,000 25 s. Oats - - 4,000 „

40,000 quarters, at 32 s. 6 d. Charges: Salaries and wages, about ... Coals Rent, and wear and tear Yeast Cartage . . Rates and taxes, and insurance Cental charges -

Deduct grains and wash

- £•

05,000

6,000 4,000 4,500 2,000 . ; 500 700 3,800 £•

per gallon

Deduct grains and"! wash, same rate £. 9,600 - J as before 960 Allow 10 per cent, off

21,500 4,000

8,640 17,360

17,500

£. s. - 1 - -

Cost for grain, per gallon Net charges

7J 5 1/4

£.

- 3/4

COMPARATIVE RESULT.

£. s. d. - 2 -J - 1 7 3/4

With excise, cost per gallon Free from excise, cost per gallon, say

- - 5

Increase caused by restrictions Add to this : Malt duty rectification Expense of separate premises for

Colonial , spirits exemptfrom

....

- - 1 1/2 -

9 1/2

in bond, equal to (as per Par-

liamentary Return)

- - 3 1/2 - 1

Countervailing duty ought to be

173,360

£.

82,500

£.

0.32.

6,650 7,000 4,,500 Nil. 3,500 550 3,800 26,000

£.

tCfor so grain,

Charges : - £. Salaries and wages, about Coals Rent, and wear and tear Yeast Cartage ----Rates and taxes, and insurance Incidental charges

156,000

06,000 quarters, at 32s. 6d., as before

48,000 12,000 5,000

8622.

The

£.

s. d.

1 - 1 97/100

7 70/100

312 Mr. J. Carrie.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8622. The effect of all these restrictions is virtually to give to six distillers in England the entire monopoly of the trade ?—That is quite a mistake; so far 11 March 1848. from having a monopoly of the trade, our price of spirits is regulated entirely by the importation of spirits from Scotland and Ireland, in which there are 300 distillers and more. 8623. Is not it in consequence of all those restrictions that there are so few competitors found ?—Unquestionably it is the reason that there are so few distillers in England. I believe not from any want of capital, because there is capital enough for 500 distillers; but the laws under which the distillers in England work are so very severe, the penalties are so very heavy, and the duties are so heavy, and the whole thing is so difficult, that people do not like to embark their capital in it. In Scotland and ireland the case is different: the duty is very low, the risk is not so great, and the spirits go at once into consumption without going to the premises of the rectifier; so that there are a great number of small distilleries there, whereas in England there are very few. 8624. If it were not for those restrictions, there is nothing to prevent there being the same competition in that trade which there is in every other?— There is no reason in the world why there should not be 600 distilleries set up as well as six. 8625. The dread of meddling with those excise restrictions keeps people from it ?—Of course it does. No person would embark in such a way of business, reading this Act through and seeing the very heavy penalties he would be liable to on the slightest deviation from the rules laid down, and it is to that I imagine it is owing that there are so few distilleries in England. But there is another point which I should wish to draw the attention of the Committee to, which is the very great increase in the quantity of rum during the last year. It will he seen from these accounts, relating to trade and navigation, published for the 12 months ending 5th of January 1848, that in 1846 the number of gallons of rum which paid duty in England was 2,619,839 ; in Scotland, 49,264; and in Ireland, 14,598; making a total of 2,683,701 gallons; that was in the year 1846. In the year 1847, when there was a great falling off in the consumption of spirits in England, the number of gallons consumed, duty paid, in England, was 2,770,411 ; in Scotland, 382,888; and in Ireland, 1,766,372. In 1847 the total amount was 3,329,936 gallons, whereas in 1846 it was 2,683,701 gallons. 8626. Sir E. Buxton.'] That was the first year after the duty was reduced ? —Yes. 8627. Mr. Goulburn.] There was an absolutely prohibitory duty, was not there, up to that time in Scotland and Ireland ?—Yes. 8628. Sir E. Buxton.] Is there the same difference in Ireland between rum and home spirits that there is in England?—Yes There is now the same differential duty in the three parts of the kingdom. Formerly the duty on rum was the same in Ireland and Scotland as in England, but it is now only 9d. more than the home duty in each country; that is, there is 9d. difference between the duty of Irish spirits and the duty on rum. In 1846, the spirits made in England were 5,624,868 gallons, whereas in 1847 the amount was 5,356,764 gallons ; therefore there is a falling off of nearly 300,000 gallons in English spirits, whereas there is a considerable increase in rum. There has been a slight increase in brandy in the 12 months ending the 5th of January 1848. Brandy was 1,537,762 gallons, whereas in the previous year it was 1,514,893. The increase between 1846 arid 1847 in brandy was 500.000 gallons. In Scotland, in 1846, the consumption of spirits was 6,975,091 gallons ; in 1847, it was 6,193,249. In Ireland, the consumption of spirits in 1846 was 7,952,070, and in 1847 it was 6,037,383. The total amount of spirits which paid duty for consumption in England in 1847 was 8,409,165 gallons ; in 1843 it was 9,179,530 gallons. 8029. Did not you increase your price of spirits ?—In consequence of the high price of corn we were obliged to raise the price of our spirits. 8630. How much did you raise the price of your spirits?—-They are 10s. now. I think the price was as high as 11.v. 9d. 8631 For how long were they as as high 11 s 9d. ?—During the continuance of the high price of barley. The price of spirits now is very low indeed; barley s at 32s. per quarter, and spirits are only 10a'. 8632. Do

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 313 8632. Do distillers invariably make great incomes by their trades?—Very far from it. I cannot give you a better example of it than this, that the first year after the income tax was put on I was obliged to make a return of my income arising from trade. I was charged higher than I thought I ought to be, and at the end of the year I appealed to the Special Commissioners for a return of my income tax, and I proved entirely to their satisfaction that I did not make a single farthing of profit in the course of that year. 8633. In what year was that?—In 1843 or 1844. 8634. Can you account to the Committee how it was that you made so bad a year?—In consequence of competition. 8635. The competition of Scotland and Ireland?—Yes, and the general competition in the trade. 8636. The fact is, that it is quite a mistake to suppose that distillers in . England have a monopoly of the spirit trade, although there are very few that are engaged in .the English distilling trade, owing to the restrictions?—It is quite ridiculous to suppose that, the English distillers can have a monopoly, when they are liable to competition from 300 or 400 distillers in Scotland and Ireland. The only advantage they gain is a local advantage in not having a freight to pay. If there happens to be a good harvest in Scotland or Ireland, and a bad harvest in England, the price of spirits in England must come down to the price at which the Scotch and Irish distillers can afford to send their spirits here, whether any money is made by it or not. The only monopoly in the English trade is the monopoly caused by the excise restrictions. There is one observation which I should wish to make to the Committee, that in making these remarks I beg to say that I have confined myself strictly to the excise restrictions, and to nothing else. I have entirely lost sight of all the indirect taxation to which we are subjected. The cost of the material from which we make our spirits is very much indeed increased by indirect taxation in this country. There is no reason in the world why, if it were not for the indirect taxation of the country, we should not be able to buy our corn quite as cheap, and in fact a great deal cheaper than the corn which is grown in the United States, or any other part of the world. I believe it is quite well known that in the United States 15 bushels of com only per acre are grown to 26 bushels of corn in this country, and if it were not for the indirect taxation which exists here, there is no reason in the world why we should not be able to grow our corn and buy our corn quite as cheaply as it can be brought to the distillery doors of the maker in the United States, and indeed more so; because if we can grow in England 26 bushels per acre, where they can only grow 15, of course we could buy our 26 bushels at a much less price than the United States farmer can sell his 15 bushels. The indirect taxation applies also to labour and to every part of our process. I am well aware that the West Indians say they have indirect taxation amounting to the excise restrictions which we have, but that has nothing to do with it. If they have indirect taxation so have we, and my observations now only go to those restrictions which are imposed upon us by the excise, from which I believe them to be totally or almost entirely free. 8637. Mr. Goulburn.] You state that there are at present only nine corn distillers in England ?—1 believe there are only nine. 8638. In your own case you said you were not benefited in one year, and did not make a considerable profit; but upon a series of years, I presume the Committee may understand that the corn distillers do make a very fair profit upon the capital which they lay out?—I do not consider that the profit made by corn distillers upon the average of years is at all great compared to the capital which they have embarked in their business, and the very great risk which they run. 8639. The corn distiller is a person who makes a fair income, is not he ?—It depends upon circumstances; for several years the corn distiller was in a state which was very far from producing a profit. 8640. You say that the limited number arises from the excise restrictions?— I believe that to be the case. 8641. The excise restrictions therefore have the effect in England of confining the whole manufacture of spirits to nine persons?—They have. 8042. Do you think if those excise restrictions were removed the trade would remain in the hands of those individuals?—Certainly not. 0.32. S s 8643. Do

711 Mr. J. Currie. 11 March 1848.

314 Mr.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8643. Do not you imagine therefore that as long as a duty is to be levied upon spirits, the corn distillers derive a benefit from those excise restrictions 1848. which prevent competitors with those already in the trade?—I do not think so at all; because although we have no competitors actually residing in and round London, yet we have plenty of competitors residing in Scotland and Ireland, who continually send their spirits over here at such a sum, that if they had any advantages in the way of a good harvest, would oblige us to sell our spirits at a very low price. 8644. You stated that the only advantage you had was that of locality, in being near the market which you supply ?—That is our principal advantage. 8645. You also mentioned the freights that other parties have to pay in bringing their produce to market?—That is a local disadvantage under which they labour. 8646. Would the advantages which you have as against the Scotch spirit, on account of your having the advantage of locality, be less as against spirit in the West Indies than against spirit in Scotland?—Undoubtedly; the spirit made from the West Indies is made from the refuse of the sugar. 8647. You say you have local advantages as respects the freight to which the Scotch distiller is subject; would that charge weigh still heavier against the West Indian?—Yes; but it is a local advantage against which I maintain no account ought to be taken. If you once begin to take into consideration local advantages, and to charge your duty according to the local advantages which a distiller has from the situation of his distillery, you may charge more duty upon the distiller in Norfolk than upon the distiller in London ; because all the barley has to come from Norfolk to London. 8648. You say that you have an advantage over the Scotch distiller in consequence of the freight that distiller has to pay; have not you an advantage over the colonial distiller in consequence of the freight which the colonial distiller has to pay ?—Certainly, but not to the same extent; because the Scotch and Irish distiller pays the lull English duty upon all that he loses in the passage from Scotland to England, whereas the colonial distiller brings his spirit over entirely duty free. 8649. Is there any comparison between the evaporation which takes place in a voyage from Edinburgh to London, and the evaporation in a voyage from Jamaica to London ?—I do not know what the evaporation in either case is. 8650. Does not the heat of the climate through which it passes materially influence the degree of loss ?—Certainly, but that is another local disadvantage. 8651. You stated that you apprehended the reason why other distilleries were not established in England to be the excise restrictions, which operate so injuriously upon all persons engaged in the trade ; are those excise restrictions confined to England only, or do they apply to Scotland also?—They apply to Scotland and Ireland in a great measure; but the duty in England being 7 s. 10 d. a gallon, makes it much more hazardous to carry on the trade when spirits, in certain cases, are liable to be seized with 7 s. 10 d. duty upon them than when they are only bonded with a duty of 3 s. 8 d. 8652. Therefore the risk of forfeiting the difference between 7 s. 10 d. and 3 s. 8 d. is sufficient to preclude in one country the establishment of distilleries which takes place in another?—There is a much greater expense in carrying on a distillery in England than in Scotland or Ireland; there is a much greater waste on deficiencies and on the decrease in stock ; a distiller in Scotland and Ireland only pays upon the waste a duty of 3 s. 8 d. or 2 s. 8 d. a gallon, whereas the distiller in England pays on the waste 7 s. 10 d. 8653. Do those objectionable conditions of the excise which you have mentioned apply equally to the one distillery and to the other?—Not equally; they do in some measure apply. The laws in Scotland and Ireland and in England are not in all respects the same ; the Scotch distiller is allowed in some instances a greater latitude than the English distiller; he may brew at a lower gravity than the English distiller. 8654. You would not make the same allowance per gallon to the Scotch distillers that you propose to give to the English distiller in the account you have submitted to the Committee?-—When the Scotch and the Irish distillers presented their claims to the differential duty last year they were on totally different grounds. There is a Scotch distiller here who will speak for himself

J. Currie.

11 March

upon

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

315

713

Mr. J- Currie. upon that subject; but in Scotland the Committee is aware tbat there is no rectification; the spirits go into immediate consumption; whereas in England they go through the medium of tire rectifier. Then again in Scotland I believe 11 March 1848. considerably more malt is used than in England. 8655. Then as far as regards Scotland, the various restrictions of the excise that you have mentioned as entitling you to 4 d. relaxation of duty would be diminished ?—This statement is a statement submitted by the English distillers. It has nothing on earth to do with the statement of the Scotch or Irish distillers. 8656. It does not matter to what nation the distiller belongs ; if the excise restrictions create a charge to this amount, they will operate equally upon the English and the Scotch distiller. But you tell the Committee that the Scotch distiller does not feel the restrictions which press so heavily upon you ; if that is the case, the 4 d. which you have charged as the price of the restrictions upon you is necessarily less than should be charged by the Scotch distillers ?— I do not say so at all. I say that the spirit consumed in Scotland and in England is of a totally different kind; the English spirit is obliged to be sent to the rectifier; and there are restrictions upon that process of rectification for which the English distiller claims 3 d. a gallon. The Scotch distiller will prove to you what his claims as to duty are. 86,57. You charge for rectification 'id. ?—Yes. 8658. To that, as a Scotch distiller does not send his spirit to the rectifier, of course you do not consider him entitled ?—Certainly not. 8659. Again, you say that the restrictions upon the Scotch distillation do not operate with the same severity as they do upon you in England?—I did not say that; what I say is, that although the distillery law in Scotland is not exactly the same as it is in England, yet there may be, for aught I know, restrictions to which the Scotch distiller is subjected, from which the English distiller is free. I know nothing about the Scotch distillery law ; I only know that in Scotland and Ireland they are allowed to brew at less gravity of wort, and therefore may be enabled to get a better produce from their corn than we do ; but there may be restrictions attending the Distillery Act of Scotland and Ireland which may press more heavily upon them than upon us: for instance, the using a greater quantity of malt. I do not pretend to come to the Committee to state the Scotch case ; I come here merely as an English distiller. 8660. It is the necessity you think yourself under of sending your spirits to the rectifier, that constitutes the difference between you and a distiller in Scotland ?—That constitutes part of the difference, undoubtedly. 8661. Upon what principle do you assume that you have a right to take into your account the charges of sending your spirits to the rectifier ?—Because if I were allowed, at my distillery, to rectify and compound spirits, and to bring my spirits into such a state as to make them palatable to the taste of the country, I should be put to considerably less expense ; a difference which I put at 3 d. a gallon less than I am now put to, when I am obliged to send them to the rectifier, who has different premises, and various expenses, from great part of which he would be exempted if I were enabled to rectify upon my premises. 8662. By combining the two trades, you would have more profit than you derive at present ?—Undoubtedly. 8663. By keeping a retail shop for spirits upon your premises, you would also have an additional advantage to that which you at present possess?—Yes ; 110 doubt of it. 8664. Is not it optional with either the Scotch distiller or the colonial distiller to send his spirit to the rectifier also?—Certainly. 8665. If they send their spirit to the rectifier, in what respect do they differ from the English distiller when he sends his spirit to the rectifier?—Because the spirit of the colonial distiller comes over here as a finished spirit; it is not a spirit which of necessity must undergo rectification. 8666. It has not undergone rectification previous to coming here I—The spirit which we make is a spirit which is not palatable to the taste of the country; rum is. It may be rectified over there or may not, but rum is a spirit which comes over here in a state fit to be consumed by the public ; and if we were allowed to make our spirit into a spirit fit to be consumed by the public, upon our own premises, we should lose our claim to this 3 d. a gallon. 8667. Scotch spirit is not rectified; what imperative necessity is there upon 0.32. s s 2 the

316 Mr. J. Currie. 11 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

the English distiller to send his spirit to the rectifier, which does not apply equally to the Scotch distiller or to the colonial distiller?—Because the Scotch distiller, as I observed just now, makes his spirit from a considerable quantity more malt than the English distiller does. 8668. There two classes of distillers in Scotland, one from malt and the other distilling upon the same principle as English distillers, and neither of them sends his spirit to the rectifier ; why, therefore, are you to take into account the subjecting your spirit to an additional process afterwards, which others do not think necessary?—It would be impossible for our spirit, as we are obliged to make it, to be consumed. 866y. There are grain distillers in Scotland as well as grain distillers in England, are there not?—The grain distillers in Scotland will be able to speak to that better than I can; hut I imagine the grain spirit consumed in Scotland is of a very great age ; I do not imagine it is consumed the moment it comes out of the still; I apprehend it is kept a considerable time in bond, and during that time the waste by evaporation, upon which he loses the duty, is very considerable. 8670. What is the cost of rectifying a gallon of spirits ?—I am not a rectifier; I can only judge from the account given in to us last year. The expenses, exclusive of ingredients, vary from 6d. to 8 d. or loci. a gallon. 8671. Do you know what is the expense of rectifying a gallon of rum ?—I do not.at all; I know nothing about rectification. 8672. If rum were subjected to rectification, in the same way as British spirits, on all that rum you would have no plea for any differential duty whatever :—Rum as coming from the West Indies never could be used by the rectifier. There is a great deal of rum comes from the East Indies, which is occasionally used by the rectifier to make cordials and other tilings, where the ingredients which he puts into those cordials conceal to a great measure the rum flavour; but I do not imagine that the rectifier could use rum to any extent to he made into gin, which is what his principal trade is in. If it were made at all, it would make a very inferior article, and there must be a great difference in the price to enable them to do it. 8673. You have been a long time in the business, have not you ?—I have been a long time in the business. 8674. Do you know why the English distillers for so long resisted the admission of rum to rectification '!—I am not aware of the grounds on which they resisted it, any more than those general grounds of restrictions for which they did not consider that they had a countervailing duty. 8675. Though it was no benefit to themselves, you think that on that ground they did for a considerable time succeed in prohibiting the rectification of colonial spirit?—Colonial spirit never was allowed to he rectified till the Act passed some few years ago which allowed it. 8676. That Act the distillers endeavoured to prevent ?—They considered it an infringement of their profits, and therefore, of course, they were very glad to oppose it in every way they could. 8677. Upon the subject of the duty, do you happen to remember the fact that during the whole year 1825 then; was no difference of duty between rum and British spirits, excepting that which arose from your being charged at seven per cent., over proof, and the others being charged at proof?—I remember something of that kind, hut I have so indistinct a recollection of it that anything I could say upon the subject would not bo worth the Committee receiving. 8678. The difference at that time was 11 d. between colonial spirit and British spirit; do you know whether the near approximation of the duties at that period produced any great decrease in the consumption of British spirits ?—In the year 1825 I was not practically conversant with the trade; I knew very little about it. I have not attended to the trade more than 20 years, and that was before the time that I was connected with it. 8679. The fact is, that for considerably more than a year there was only a differential duty of 11 d. between British and colonial spirits, and during that period, so far from there being a diminution in the consumption of British spirit, there was an increase in the consumption of British spirit; do not you consider that that is some evidence that the British spirit can contend with the colonial spirit at a lower rate of duty than you have subsequently enjoyed ?— I do not think so. It might have been occasioned by particular circumstances; there

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 317 there might have been a very short supply of rum. It takes a considerable time to bring a large stock of rum to this country ; and, as in the case of last year, I have not the slightest doubt but we shall find a much greater increase in rum in the year 1849 than in 1848. 8680. Were you a party to the alteration of duties that took place by Lord Goderich's Act, which came into effect about 1826?—I was not; J 8681. Have you ever seen the calculations upon which that alteration of duties was made?—I have seen many calculations. • 8682. In the year 1830, were you part of a deputation that waited upon me when I proposed a reduction of the duty upon spirits as compared with rum ?— I think I was. 8683. At that period distillers estimated the effect of the then existing corn duty to vary from 9 1/2 d. to Is. a gallon ?—It is very probable they might have done so; but even supposing they did, the claim they made of a differential duty was, according to the speech of Lord Goderich, which I took the liberty of reading to the Committee, a claim of 2s. a gallon. Therefore, supposing the total duty upon corn to be taken off, that would leave 1 s. a gallon as the duty which they now require. 8684. That was the original claim of the distillers, was not it?—I think they claimed 3 s.; but I have no paper here to refer to. 8683. Mr. Atlee at that time was a very respectable distiller, was not he?—I knew Mr. Atlee, certainly. 8686. The following is a passage from a letter written by Mr. Atlee to the •Chancellor of the Exchequer, dated Wandsworth, 8 April 1836: "In 1825, there were several statements made before Mr. Robinson, all tending to show the English distiller sought compensation to the amount of 2s. per gallon. At that time the Chancellor, who was assisted by Mr. Carr, framed their calculations under circumstances and upon assumptions differing from those I made ; yet they arrived at nearly the same conclusion, and the trade thought, as I did, that the merits of the case being very minutely gone into, establishing thereby that a protecting duty of Is. (id. per gallon against rum was to remain permanent. Under this impression, we have announced the alterations, and additions to their establishments"'?—I cannot admit that the trade would be bound by any such letter as that. Mr. Atlee may have taken upon himself to write a private letter to the .Chancellor of the Exchequer, but I have no recollection of any such letter being authorized by the trade. 8687. Are not you aware that the amount which distillers sought to obtain was 2s.; and that upon negotiation with Mr. Robinson it was ultimately agreed that they should receive Is. (id. a gallon, with which the distillers were satisfied?—1 do not believe the distillers were ultimately satisfied with it; it was all that they could get. I do not believe that distillers ever considered 1 s. 6 d. to be a fair protecting or differential duty during the existence of the Corn Laws. 8688. They acquiesced in it?—In the same way that we were obliged to acquiesce in the 9 d., though we complained very bitterly about it. If Parliament chose to say 9 d. was the extent of differential duty we should have, of course we have no alternative but to submit to it; but 1 beg to be understood distinctly, that the English distillers never did profess to be satisfied with a Is. 6 d. duty; they always thought that it was not a sufficient differential duty, between English and colonial spirits. 8689. If it were the case that during a certain period English distillers throve under a differential duty of lid., does not it afford some evidence that a differential duty of Is. 6d. was not an improper differential duty to fix at that time? —I do not think it does ; I think if that differential duty of 11 d. had continued for a course of years, and during that time it was found that no mischief had arisen to the trade of the distiller, and during that time the price of corn was high, it might be some sort of evidence; but I do not take the experience of a few months to be any evidence at all; you cannot tell what the effect of a change in the law may be, in a few months. 8690. From May 1824 to January 1826 rum and English spirits were upon the same footing, but rum was at proof, and the other at seven per cent, over proof ?—I do not think, unless you can prove that during that time the English distillers were in a flourishing state and making fair remunerating profits, that the argument goes for much. aa 3 8691. Can 0.32.

715 Mr. J. Currie, 11 March 1848.

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8691. Can you tell the Committee what was the consumption of British spirits about the year 1825, before this duty was imposed?—I have no paper here from 11 March 1848, which to tell that. 8692. Have you any knowledge of what has been the comparative increase of English spirit, as compared with colonial spirit; can you give it for the year 1821 ?—I cannot go so far back as that. 8693. Will you furnish to the Committee a return of the amount of British spirits and rum brought into consumption in the year 1821, and in the year 1845 ?—I will. [The JWitness subsequently supplied the following Statement:— By the Parliamentary Return for the Session 1847, No. 3, it appears that in 1821 the quantity of English spirits charged with duty for consumption, was 4,125,616 gallons ; rum, 2,166,441 gallons. In 1845, English spirits, 6,076,381 gallons; rum, 2,412,099 gallons.] 8694. If it should appear from the return that rum had increased six per cent, while British spirit had increased 117 per cent,., you would consider that is some evidence that the differential taxation had not been unavailing as far as regarded protection to the English distiller?—I think it might arise from different circumstances; you must not lose sight of this, that although rum did not increase to the same extent that British spirits did, rum had a vent which British spirits had not. The whole of the contracts of the navy were supplied solely by ruin ; the whole of our colonies were supplied by rum ; there was no vent for British spirits whatever except in this country, whereas there might have been a very great extra consumption of rum which does not appear in that account. The colonial distiller might therefore have found a better market for his rum than he could find in the market in England. 8695. Or he might have been expelled from England by the degree of protection given to the British distiller?—That would be quite impossible; the protection given to the British distiller was not greater than it could be shown he was entitled to. 8696. You do not consider that taking two commodities, one of which has a protecting duty over the other, a large increase in the consumption of the one which has a protecting duty, against a very small increase on the other which has not, affords any evidence of the protection being adequate or inadequate ?— It would afford great evidence, provided the same market were open to both. 8697. Is there any difference in the market which is open to both?—Yes; the whole of our colonies and the whole of the navy contracts were open to rum, whereas British spirits were excluded, and the price of British spirits might have been at that time so low that the colonial distiller found a much better market for his rum elsewhere than in England 8698. What prohibited the British distiller from taking part in the foreign market?—The impossibility of exporting compounded spirits. The English distiller has never been allowed to export his spirits in such a state as to be fit for consumption. There are, in fact, great quantities of gin sent now from Holland, which come into our docks in London, and are re-exported to different parts of the world. The British distiller has no opportunity whatever of competing with that, because he is not allowed to export his compounded spirits free of duty; the colonial distiller has that opportunity, he having that market entirely to himself; he is able to get his price for his rum, without finding any competition whatever. 8699. He has not the power of compounding rum?—But rum is drunk and fit for consumption immediately. Rum is drunk in the navy, and in our colonies, in its raw state; British spirits are not, and the law has not allowed British spirits, when put into such a state as to make them fit to be drunk, to be exported. 8700. You conceive that because the British distiller makes what is not so saleable a commodity as the colonial distiller, the colonial distiller should be subjected to certain restrictions, and to a rate of duty from which the British distiller is exempt?—I was only following up the argument, which amounts to this, that because the protecting duty was for a certain time taken off rum, and for a certain number of years rum had increased in a much less proportion than British spirits, therefore on that account it was to be supposed that the protecting duty was too great. I say that never can be borne out for a single moment, because ruin had a market to go to which British spirits had not; and it had the sole control of that market, and was able to maintain a better price

Mr, J. Currie.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 319 in the market than the colonial distiller could get for his rum in this country ; therefore that distiller did not consider it worth his while to send his rum to this country. 8701. You admit that all those markets were equally open for the spirit of each in the original state in which it was manufactured, but your complaint is that you were not allowed to mix your spirit, so as to make another article of it before it was exported ?—We were not allowed to make the best use of our produce and to make it into a palatable spirit, which the colonial distiller is allowed to do, and by means of which he can find a market all over the world. 8702. The colonial distiller is not allowed to mix his spirits any more than you are?—He makes a spirit which is palatable to the taste of people all over the world, and so does the English distiller, but then the English distiller, when that spirit becomes palatable, is not allowed to export it, whereas the colonial distiller is, and he lias the entire monopoly of all the navy contracts and the entire supply of all our colonies, and many other markets in the world from which the English distiller is shut out. 8703. Because by that process he makes a palatable spirit, whereas the English distiller by his process makes an unpalatable spirit?—Because the English distiller is not allowed to export the palatable spirit which he makes, unless upon payment of duty. 8704. He is not allowed to export the mixed spirit, but he is allowed to export his simple spirit the same as the colonial distiller?—What I say is this, that if the colonial distiller is allowed to make such a spirit as he conceives to be palatable to the taste of the public, while the English distiller is not allowed to do that, the colonial distiller is in a better position than the English distiller. 8705. Why may not the English distiller distil any spirit he pleases ?—He may distil it, but he is not allowed to export it; he is not allowed to flavour that compound spirit so as to make it palatable and saleable in any part of the world, consequently large quantities of foreign gin are continually in our docks here, and are exported free of duty to our colonies, because the English distiller is not allowed to export his compounded spirit. 8706. In compounding English spirit the English distiller very often flavours it with rum, does not he ?—Not that I am aware of. 8707. Are not you aware that there is a considerable quantity of British spirit manufactured into British rum by mixture with colonial rum ?—I am not aware that that is exported. 8708. Are you aware of its being made use of for home consumption ?— When the price of rum is so very high as to check the consumption, I have heard that the rectifier docs rectify our spirits, putting some strong-flavoured rum into them, and sell them as British rum, but that cannot be done when the prices of rum and of British spirits are near together. I have heard of British rum being made, and I believe that is the way in which it is made, but I do not think the extent to which it is made is at all considerable. 8709. You have stated very much at length the difficulties under which you consider the English distiller to labour, for which you think he ought to have a protecting duty; have you ever considered the impediments to the trade of the colonial distiller ? — I believe there are not the same excise restrictions attaching to the colonial distiller as to the English distiller. I believe the colonial distiller, with the exception of very trifling restrictions, is enabled to make his spirits in any way he pleases, and as he pleases. 8710. There is a Bill, as you are aware probably, now in Parliament, to allow you to distil from molasses?—I am not aware of any such Bill having passed. 8711. What will prevent you, when that Bill passes, from making the same spirit in England that the colonial manufacturer makes in the colony ?—I am not much acquainted with the process of making rum, but I do not believe that it is made from molasses only ; I believe rum is made from cane juice and all sorts of things besides molasses. I do not believe it to be possible that any spirit could come from molasses at all approaching to rum. I have no means of knowing that, because we are prohibited by these laws from making any large experiment, but I do not imagine it to be possible to make any spirit from molasses approaching the flavour of rum. 8712. Supposing rum to be made from molasses, and supposing you had the power of distilling from molasses, on what grounds would you then claim a differential duty?—On the ground of the excise restrictions; those excise restrictions are totally independent of the use of molasses. Our being allowed to use 0.32. s s 4 molasses

717 Mr. J. Currie. 11 March 1848.

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molasses does not take from us the restriction as to alternate brewing and distilling ; it does not take away from us the obligation of buying yeast from the brewer; it docs not take away the expense and loss of fuel by the interruption of distillation, or the impediments to successful fermentation. 8713. Your distillery goes on by being carried on consecutively for 24 hours, does not it?—It depends upon circumstances; it depends upon the demand we have for our spirit. If the demand is great we make the best use of our time, and make as much spirit as these very vexatious restrictions, not allowing us to continue brewing and distilling at the same time, will enable us to do. If we find we have not a large demand for spirit, we cannot keep spirit on account of •the payment of duty, and therefore we work slowly, the amount of expense upon our plant being as great as if we were making full use of it. 8714. The objection to the excise regulation is, that the men lose a great deal of their time, and that the operations cannot be continuous ?—The men do lose their time to a certain extent, but by the restrictions upon the operation of distilling, and keeping the different distillations separate, the men employ their time in an unprofitable way. Now that would not be necessary if the law did not require the distillations to be kept separate. 8715. Would it be possible to carry on your distillery if the men were to say that they would only work five hours a day, and five days a fortnight?—I should get other men who would work, of course. 8716. Supposing you could not find others that would work except upon those terms, would that be an impediment to your distillery ?—Of course it would ; but I conceive we should not be able to carry on our distillery to the same advantage we do now, if we were to work our distillery in the same way as the colonist works his estate out there; he is dependent upon manual labour during the greater part of his process. We use machinery to a great extent; we have not one-third the quantity of labourers now in our distillery we had formerly. 8717. If, by an alteration in the law of the country, labour has been rendered so uncertain that no man can command it, do not you think that the restriction so imposed by the law is to be considered as much as an excise restriction which is imposed by the law ?—I do not think the two points at all bear upon each other. I think the restrictions imposed by the law upon a distillery relate entirely to the making of spirits. I think that the laws which enable a labourer to work or not, as he likes, cannot be considered as excise restrictions upon making rum. 8718. If an Act were to pass in this country that no man should work more than two hours a day, would not that be a law which affected the value of your spirits?—It would be a local disadvantage under which I should labour, which I could not take account of as an excise restriction. 8719. I ou think that a restriction upon labour is not to be taken into account, but that a restriction upon the mode of manufacture is?—It would be impossible to say that a law could pass which should prevent men from working more than two hours a day. 8720. Supposing the effect of legislation had been greatly to diminish the hours of labour and to impede the employment of labourers, would not you esteem that to be quite as much a subject for fair consideration as the restrictions imposed upon the mode of manufacture ?— I do not think that the Government are at all inclined to allow the manufacturers at Manchester any protecting duty on account of the people only working 10 hours a day instead of 1 2 ; therefore why should the West Indians claim a compensation ? 8721. They are not claiming compensation. It is a question between the cost of two particular manufacturers. You say, because they impose upon you restrictions which are necessary for the revenue, you are entitled to compensation ; you say, because restrictions operate in the West Indies which prevent the labourers working as they do in other countries, they are not entitled to it?—I do not think that any such restrictions exist in the West Indies. I believe it is merely because the labourers feel themselves independent. They feel that they can work or not as they like, and they only work for two or three hours a day. I am not aware of that arising from any legal measures saying that a man shall not work above a certain number of hours a day. If we were to find all the labourers of this country in such a situation it would be so much the worse for us; but I do not see how we could come to Government and claim compensation for that. 8722. The

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

321

8722. The protective duties having been established when it w as notorious that the colonists had an ample power of commanding labour, do not you think you are in a more favourable situation under the existing protecting duty than you would have been if the other system had continued ?—We certainly have an advantage over the colonies in that respect, for we have good workmen and they have bad workmen, and therefore we can do better than they can. 8723. Your protecting duty was given at the time when labour was as perfectly at command in the one country as in the other?—I am not aware that it is not at their command now. If you mean that the protecting duty was given at the time when slavery was in operation, that I am willing to allow; hut 1 do not see why we should have part of that protecting duty taken off because slavery has been abolished, and those workmen have chosen to make themselves independent of their employers. 8724. You do not think that the protecting duty ought to be altered on that account, nor do you think it should be altered on account of one shilling of that protecting duty having been given on account of the existing corn laws ? —The duty of 1 s. 6 d. was forced upon the distillers, and they could get no more, and therefore they were obliged to take it. It is just possible that they may have said that the corn laws operated against them to the extent of 1 s. a gallon, but they claimed 2 s., and if they claimed 2 s., then they have still a claim for 1 s., and that claim they are prepared to support. Then this was reduced last year to 9 d. 8723. Does the English distiller, when he sells his spirit, make a present of his cask to the person who purchases it ?—Certainly not. 8726. Can the colonial distiller avoid being at the expense of the cask in which the commodity is sold ?—I believe the cask that the rum comes in is very valuable. I believe a great price is given for those casks. I believe they are marketable. 8727. They are marketable, but not for the benefit of the producer of the spirit, are they?—I imagine so; they are included in the price. If a rectifier buys a cask of rum, he buys it cask and all; if he buys a cask of spirits, he gives less for it, because he has not the cask. 8728. You complain of the advantage which rum has from being bonded; are not you cognisant of this, that the privilege of bonding has been offered to the British distillers repeatedly, and that they have declined it ?—I know there has been a difference of opinion as to the bonding of British spirits. It is a very hazardous thing indeed for an English distiller to advise the taking off any restrictions; because, although those restrictions press very heavily upon the fair trader, yet the taking them off is attended with a very great danger, and the allowing of the bonding of spirits, I believe, has been objected to for fear of the evasion of the duty. 8729. If you say that because rum is bonded you are entitled to an additional protection, and yet you might have permission to bond your own spirits, if you had not refused it, how do you justify the extent of protection you claim on account of your exclusion from that privilege?—Because it is proved, by Parliamentary returns, that the colonist has had a remission of duty to the extent of 36,0001, or 3 1/2 d. a gallon. 8730. Why did not you have it, except that you would not consent to have your spirits bonded ?—it was never offered to us to that extent. It may have been offered to us as corn-distillers, but the loss upon bonding does not end with the spirit leaving the distillery. If Government were to say, " We will allow your spirits to go to the rectifier duty free, and there they shall be compounded as he likes, and any loss upon them during that process shall be taken into account, and no duty shall be paid, except upon the quantity sent out by the rectifier," there might be something in it; but it. is merely said that we shall be allowed to send out our spirits free of duty from our distillery. I do not consider that at all equivalent to the advantage that the West Indian has. 8731. In the same way you should also send your spirit to the publican free of duty; you claim to have an additional protecting duty imposed upon rum because it does not require to go to the rectifier, and because you make a spirit which does require it?—I claim a compensation of 3 d. a gallon on these grounds, that I am not allowed to make my spirit a palatable spirit.; but in order to its being made so, it is by law obliged to go to a separate establishment, where expenses are incurred which are totally unnecessary, except for the 0 T T

719 Mr. J. Currie.

11 March 1848.

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the protection of the duty; the colonial distiller is totally exempted from those restrictions; and I say that if there is to be any equality at all in the bonding of British spirits and the bonding of rum, that equality will not be attained till the whole of the waste on the spirit is allowed, up to the time it goes out of the stock of the rectifier, in the same way as it goes out of dock here. 8732. Then the first objection comes to this, that as you make an inferior article you are entitled to protection ?—Because the law prevents our making the proper article, therefore I say we are entitled to compensation ; we claim to be put upon the same footing as the colonial distiller is. The law says we shall not compound our spirits, that we shall not make them into the only state in which they can be drunk in this country, but the law says also that we are entitled to compensation against those distillers who are enabled to make palatable spirits. 8733. The law says, that the distiller of rum shall be subject to the same difficulties as you are, and no more, because he cannot rectify his rum without bringing it home to England ?—There is nothing to prevent the distiller of rum from setting up a reetifying-house, and rectifying it in the colony. 8734. You admit that Scotch spirit is drunk without rectification?—Not in England. 8735. What you say in effect is this : I, an English distiller, like to have a double process performed upon my spirit, and because I cannot perform that double process, which is not necessary for the formation of spirits even in England, I am therefore to have compensation?—I say this: My case only applies to the English distiller, as to whom it is absolutely necessary that his spirits should be compounded before they can go into consumption. The Scotch distiller will tell you, and the Irish distiller will tell you, upon what ground he asks for this differential duty. It may be the same as mine, or it may be different. I believe it to be different. I know there is no rectification there, therefore unless he can give you something to set against this expense of rectification, of course he does not stand in as good a position as we do; but I come here merely as an English distiller, and I tell you that you prevent my making a palatable spirit fit to go into consumption, because, for the purpose of securing your duty, it is necessary that it should be made by two distinct and different processes, putting me to the additional expense of id. a gallon. 8736. The law in both cases requires that if you submit it to a second process, you shall do it on particular terms, but it does not require you to submit it to that second process?—Then we should have a still greater claim upon the malt duty. 8737. You are capable in England of making great improvements in your distilleries from time to time, are you not ?—On the contrary, we are prevented from making those improvements which we should do if left" to ourselves. 8738. The Coffey still is a great improvement in the. process of the distillery, is it not?—I cannot take that to be an improvement in the process of the distillery ; it is a clever apparatus invented by Mr. Coffey. The great advantage of it is that it is a great saving of fuel; the advantage was so great that application was made to the Excise to allow it to be used, though it was in direct violation of some part of this law. The Excise thought proper to say, We do not object to your using that still, provided you will submit to the additional restriction of having the end of your worm secured, and also that we shall be at liberty to put an end to the use of this still whenever we find it is hazardous to the revenue. We could make great improvements in our mode of working if it were not for the excise restrictions, and we could use our corn to much greater advantage. 8739. Have you any reason to suppose that the Excise are not willing to give the same facility to general improvements that they have given in the case of Mr. Coffey's still?-- The Chancellor of the Exchequer told me last year that he should be very happy to take off any of the restrictions that would not endanger the revenue. I could not point out one. While there is such a very high duty as 7 s. 10d. a gallon imposed upon British spirits it is necessary to have restrictions which, though they embarrass the traders immensely, I could not recommend any of them to be taken off. 8740. You feel "J s. 10d. to be a very onerous duty upon the spirit that you make?—It is a duty which I am quite certain cannot long be collected. 8741. What do you think of a duty of 9s. 'id. upon the rum?—I hold that spirit

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 323 spirit ought to be taxed to the very utmost that it can be taxed ; and when I say it is an onerous duty, I mean this, that the duty being so very high the trader is obliged to be subjected by law to great restrictions in order to prevent fraud; the duty might be higher were it not for the encouragement of illicit distillation. 8742. Do you admit 1 s. 6d. to have been a sufficient protecting duty?— No. 8743. You do not think that during the 20 years you enjoyed it, it was a sufficient protection to the British distillers ?—I think when the Corn Laws were in existence, 2 s. was the duty which we claimed, and 2 s. was the duty we were entitled to. 8744. The measure of the value of a protecting duty is, whether it has answered the object for which it was imposed; have you found that 1 s. 6 d protecting duty was less than sufficient to give you all the protection which you could possibly have anticipated ?— I do not take the duty to be a protecting duty at all; I take it to be a compensating duty, to put the distillers in England and the distillers in the colonies on the same footing. 8745. Was the effect of that compensating duty to give any advantage to the colonial distiller on his produce, as against the British distiller ?—I believe the quantity of rum consumed has been annually increasing. 874b. You stated that the price of coals was a great ingredient in the expense of a distillery ?—The expense of fuel has been very much diminished by Coffey's apparatus. 8747. The price of coals themselves have very much altered since the year 1825, when this duty was imposed, has it not?—Probably so. I am not aware now what the price of coals was in 1825. 874.8. In that particular the cost of your manufacture has decreased?— Certainly. 8749. Are you aware whether any such decrease has taken place in the cost of the manufacture of the competing spirit in the colonies:—I know nothing about the colonies, therefore I cannot say ; but I think the. laws that have been passed since then have taken off burdens on the colonists to which they were subjected in 1825. 8750. You complain that you waste a considerable quantity of coal, owing to your being obliged to put out the fires?—Owing to keeping each distillation separate there is a considerable waste of fuel, and also of time. 8751. As you do not know anything about colonial distillation, you do not know whether the, fires are put out there as frequently as you have to put them out?—It is the exciseman that occasion it here. 8752. You alluded, in the course of your examination, to the expense which you had been put to by the Act of 1825; you stated that you had been put to the expense of 40,000 I. in order to conform your establishment to that Act. Was not the necessity for that expense urged by the distillers as a ground for a more favourable consideration of the protecting duty ?—I am not aware, that it was. 87.53. You are not aware that the amount of expense they stated that they should be put to was 250,000 I. by the alteration of their distilleries :—I am not aware of that; but I think it would have been a very fair claim. 8754. Supposing that protecting duty has been beyond what was absolutely necessary, looking at the charges to which they were subjected, which is an opinion that may fairly be deduced from the various circumstances, do not you think the enjoyment of that additional protection for 20 years is a full compensation for the expense, of altering their establishments ?—I think this claim for compensation is quite as applicable now as it was in the year 1825 ; for as we laid out a very large sum of money in erecting premises then, which were totally useless to us except to comply with the excise restrictions, so in the same way we are obliged to keep up those premises: the money we. expended on them is from time to time renewed, because those utensils do not last for ever. The same necessity for having those utensils exists now as in 1825. 8755. Having enjoyed the protection in 1825 of 11 d., which was raised in 1824 to I s. 6 d., do not you think that the difference of 7 d. additional duty has in the intervening period more than afforded you compensation for any augmentation of your establishment which you have made?—I do not think so 0.32. T T 2 at

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at all; I think we have a right to take it in this way : supposing a man were now to set up a distillery, he has a fair claim to 1 s. 0 5 d. protecting duty at 1848. the very least; and because we have enjoyed the 1 s. 6 d. for 20 years under severe corn laws, 1 do not think there is any reason why part of that 1 s. should be taken off now. I maintain that the 1 s. 6 d. was not sufficient. 8756. Notwithstanding the 1 s. 6 d. has protected you against any increase in the quantity of rum at all equal to the inerease that has taken place in British spirits ?—I cannot agree to that argument at all; if rum and British spirits had both the same vent, and only the same market to go to, and British spirits had increased immensely, and rum had not increased at all, I should then say there was a great deal in it; but when rum has the monopoly, and the entire monopoly, of a very considerable market, it is extremely probable that the great increase of British spirits, compared with the increase of rum, arises from the colonial distiller finding a better market for his rum than the English market, and on that account sending it elsewhere. 87,57. Supposing in the year 1821 the quantity of rum consumed in England was 2,300,000 gallons, and that in 1845 it was 2,409,000 gallons only; and supposing at the same time that the consumption of British spirits in 1821 was nearly 10,000,000 of gallons, and in 1845, 24,000,000 ; does not that afford you tolerable evidence that the protecting duty was amply sufficient to guard you against colonial rum ?—It would if we had both the same markets to go to; if I had had a better market to go to for my spirit than the English market, I should have sold at that market, and the increase would not have been so great; the small increase on rum, compared with British spirits, is to he attributed to that circumstance of the rum having a more extensive and better market than in England. 8758. May not it be attributed to the rum having a worse market in England than it ought to have?—I do not think so. 8759, You suppose that the rum does not come here, not because the market is worse, but because it has the power of going to other markets?—I do not think the price of British spirit is higher in proportion now than it was in the year ! 825 or 1821. 87bo. Mr. Moffalt.] You state the principal reason why the differential duty should be permanent, arises from the restrictions which are put upon your trade both in manufacturing and in vending spirits ?—Yes. 8761. If those restrictions, therefore, could be largely alleviated, I presume there would not be an objection to the equalization of the duty '?—If the restrictions were taken off, the differential duty ought to be taken off altogether • we have no objection to that whatever. 8762. Those restrictions, as I understand, may be divided into two classes: the one is a restriction upon the process of manufacture; the other a non-permission to bond your spirits, and to be allowed the same remission of duty upon the quantity which does not actually go into consumption, which the colonial distiller enjoys?—Yes. 8763. I may gather from your evidence, may I not, that the distillers of Great Britain would be very glad now to have the privilege to put their spirits into bond ?—I think I stated just now that the mere permission to bond would not put us in the same situation as the colonial distiller. 8704. Unless you had also the privilege of paying the duty only on that quantity of spirit which goes into consumption ?—After it has passed through the hands of the rectifier. 8765. Would not your privilege be equal to that of the colonial manufacturer of spirits, if you were allowed the same permission to bond and to pay duty only on the quantity entered for home consumption prior to its process of manufacture by the rectifier ?—No, certainly not, because there is a considerable waste in the re-manufacture of the spirits, which would not exist if we were allowed to make the spirits in our own premises ; I imasrine if there were nothing in law to prevent it, we could make in one process, or nearly so, a palatable spirit. 8 766. You could make such a spirit, so far as the rectifying process was concerned, without sweetening the spirit ?—I am so little acquainted with the rectifying process that I can hardly give an answer to that; I think sweetening the spirit is done during the process of rectification; I do not think the sweetening takes place alter the spirits are rectified; I believe from what I have heard

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heard that the sugar, or whatever is put in to sweeten the spirit, is put in during the process of rectification, while the spirit is in a state of vapour. 8767. You are not aware that spirit can be sweetened after the process of rectification, which is blending juniper berry with the spirit to produce a certain flavour ?-— It very likely may be so. 8768. If that could be done, would not the difficulty under which the distiller labours at present be greatly obviated ?—If we were allowed to compound our spirits upon our own premises, it would take away a great portion of the necessity for this compensation which we claim from having separate premises. 8769. You are perhaps aware that the only difficulty the Excise find in permitting that is, that they cannot detect the actual strength of the spirit when saccharine is mixed with the spirit?—I believe that to be the reason that they have always given. 8770. If that could be obviated, one great cause of complaint would cease ? —I do not believe it is possible that it could be obviated. I think if it could have been obviated it would have been ere this. 8771. You are not practically much acquainted with rectifying, are you? -No. 8772. Are you aware what is the opinion of the chairman of Excise upon the subject ?—No ; I have never heard the chairman of Excise officially express any opinion upon the matter. 8773. If you succeeded in obtaining the privilege of rectifying upon your own premises, that would obviate the 3 d. per gallon cost which you claim as against the West Indians ?—If the law would allow us to make such a spirit as would immediately go into consumption upon our own premises, and without restriction, undoubtedly we could no longer claim that 3 d. a gallon. 8774. If the law allowed you to put your spirits in bond and pay duty only on the quantity which actually went into consumption, that is, not subjecting you to a charge of duty upon the waste and evaporation, that would take off another 3id. a gallon from your comparison of the differential cost between the British and the West India spirit?—I should think anything of that kind would be extremely hazardous to the revenue. 8775. Assuming it could be done, that is the actual state of the fact, is not it? - It is part of the question you asked me before, whether, if all the restrictions were taken off, we should have any claim to a differential duty; to which I answer that we should not. 8776. If your spirits were put upon precisely the same advantage in respect to bonding that the spirits of the colonial producer are, would not that save you 3 3/4 d. a gallon, which the English distiller at the present time states he is disadvantaged by that prohibition ?—It would not place us on the same footing as the colonial distiller. 8777. Would not that save you S i d. ?—Of course it would. 8778. Is it to be understood that you, speaking as an English distiller, are desirous of having the privilege of bonding your spirits?—There is a great difference of opinion among English distillers as to whether bonding is desirable or not. I, for one, think that bonding would be decidedly advantageous, That opinion, however, is not the universal opinion of the English distillers, but I myself think it would be advantageous; I think the permission to bond, under certain restrictions, which would not be onerous to the trader, would be very advantageous. 8779. You also stated, in reference to exporting British spirits, that a very large trade was missed at the present time by this country; can you state the extent of that trade ?—It is impossible to say ; there is a great deal of spirit, I have understood, goes direct from Holland to the colonies, which never comes here at all. I do not think I have any paper to show the amount of Hutch gin which is exported from the docks here. 8780. Your belief is, that English gin would be as palatable in the colonies Dutch gin ?—I think so. 8781. Mr. Goulbum.] Is the Dutch gin rectified?—I think not; the distillation is carried on on a totally different principle to what it is in England; I believe all the grains, and every part of the corn, go at once into die still. ney have no excise laws, and they are able to flavour or sweeten their spirits without any excise laws whatever. T 'r 3 0.32. 8782. Mr.

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8782. Mr. Moffat.] Do you know the cost per gallon of English gin, compared with a gallon of Dutch gin?—No. 1848. 8783. Are you aware whether in America there is a taste for English gin ?— I am not. 8784. Your impression is that the extension of the export trade might he obtained for British spirits, if you were allowed the privilege of exporting British rectified spirits ?—I have no doubt of it. 8785. At present you are prohibited from doing so ? —We are. 8786. Are you aware, in reference to shrub, whether that is a rectified spirit? —I do not know anything about shrub ; it is a colonial spirit. I think it is a compounded spirit made of rum and orange. That was allowed by a Bill two or three years ago to come into this country at the same duty as rum. It has always appeared to me very absurd that we should not be allowed to export spirit; it is the only article of British manufacture which is not allowed to be exported; it is not as if is between Scotland, Ireland, and England, where the duty in Scotland and Ireland is low, and the duty in England is high, and where the strength may be concealed by sweetening; but here it is manifestly not for the advantage of the exporter to conceal the strength. 8787. Chairman.] With respect to the supply of the spirits for the navy, is there any free competition between the British and the colonial manufacturer? —No, the colonial manufacturer has always had that market entirely to himself. 8788. Are there any provisions in the Act of Parliament by which you could tender for the supply of British spirits in bond ?—I do not believe the Government would accept any such tender. 8789. There are no provisions by which the Government could give you a drawback enabling you to enter into competition with the colonial distiller?— No. 8790. Consequently the colonial distiller has the exclusive supply of that article to the British navy?—Yes. 8791. Can you state to what extent that article is consumed in the British navy?—No; it is to a very considerable extent. 8792. Is it something- like 700,000 or 800,000 gallons?—I should think so. 8793. Something like one-sixth of the entire quantity of spirits produced in this country?-—No, it is one-fifth part of the make of the London distillers, perhaps; but I cannot answer that with any certainty as to quantity. 8794. Mr. Moffatt.] I think I may gather from your statement, that if you got those restrictions obviated with reference to the regulations which oppress your manufacture, you would be able fairly to compete with the colonial producer?— If you take off the restrictions to the amount at which I place them here, our claim for compensation to that amount ceases; but I cannot agree that because you take off two or three of those items, on that account the whole differential duty is to cease. 8795. I have taken off two of the most formidable items, the 3 d. and the 3 3/4 that leaves the duty on malt 1 1/2 d., and the other restrictions Act. or 5 d.; putting those as incidents accruing from the locality in which your manufacture is carried on, are not they a fair equivalent for the incidents accruing from the locality where the colonial spirits are made, and the expenses which the colonial distiller must incur to bring his spirit to the British market?—I think the expenses which the colonial distiller incurs in bringing his spirit to the British market ought not to be taken into account: in the compensating duty I ask for in consequence of those restrictive laws, all local advantages or disadvantages are-entirely out. of the question. Though the colonial distiller has certainly local disadvantages as regards sending his rum to England, we have equally great local disadvantages in regard to sending our spirit, to the West Indies; therefore I put local advantages and disadvantages entirely out of the question, and I confine myself to the excise restrictions. If the Honourable Member means to ask me whether, if he will take off those restrictions to the amount of 3c?. in one ease and 3 1/2 d. in another, I am prepared to reduce my claim of differential duty to that extent, I am quite willing to say yes. 8796. What do you say as to the others?—It depends upon what those expenses arise from. If those expenses arise from direct taxation and excise restrictions, one may he set against the other; but if those expenses merely arise

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arise from the position of the colonial distillers as set against the position of the English distillers, I take it one cannot justly be set off against the other. 8797. The English distillers assume at the present moment that they are entitled to the present protection; if it were understood on the part of the Government that the vexatious restrictions which they allege were to be withdrawn, the British distiller would be perfectly ready to meet the colonial distiller, without any differential duty ?—Certainly. 8798. Lord G. Manners.'] Are you aware that, at the time of the passing of the Act in 1825, it was the general opinion that the provisions of that Act would have the effect of encouraging the establishment of smaller distilleries, and breaking down the monopoly which was then alleged to exist in the spirit trade ?—I believe one of the intentions of the Act was to make the intercourse of spirits more free than it had been before. Before that Act came into operation the English distillers worked under a totally different law from the distillers in Scotland and Ireland; and the spirit distilled in England was of a totally different character. The Scotch and Irish complained that they were not allowed to make their spirit in Scotland and send it over here, and that their laws were entirely different. 'J hey were obliged, if they did so, to enter their houses for the English market, and to work under the English laws ; and it was mainly in consequence of their representations to that effect that the law was altered, and that our law was assimilated to their law. 8799. it the effect of causing smaller distilleries to be established ?—It had not the effect of causing any smaller distilleries to be established in England, certainly ; but it has had the effect of bringing the English distillers into competition with the Scotch and Irish distillers. 8800. I am informed that it had the effect of causing two to be established; one in Spitalfields, and one in Manchester ?—They were very small ones. I believe there was a distillery in Spitalfields, but it existed but for a very short time. 880). You stated that in the year 1847, when the price of barley was very high, you increased the prioe of your spirits from 10 S. to 11 s. 10 d.?—I think the price of spirits, for a short time, was as high as 1 1 s. 9d.; I am not quite sure about it; I think it was 11 s. 9 d.; it is now 10 A. The price of barley then was above 50A. ; it is 32 A. at present. 8802. The total cost on the materials per gallon being 1 s. 4 id., it seems a very large increase to make, that of 1 s. 10 d. per gallon, in consequence of the rise in price of the principal material?—Your Lordship will see that the price of spirits depends principally upon the price of corn. We reckon, as a general rule, 20 gallons of spirit to be the utmost that we can produce from a quarter of corn. If the price of barley, therefore, is 30A., we take it for granted that, exclusive of the malt duty, corn will cost 1 s. 6d. per gallon. As the price of corn rises, so the price of our spirit rises in proportion. 8803. Do you complain of the excise restrictions absolutely, or only when you compare your state with that of the colonial distillers ?—I do not complain of the excise restrictions ; I think they are absolutely necessary for the collection of the high duty of 7 s. 10d. a gallon. I only complain of those restrictions as compared with the colonial distiller, who is entirely free from them. 8804. Have you any estimate of the number of gallons which might he obtained from a quarter of corn if you were entirely free ?—It is impossible to say to what extent improvements might be carried. Mr. Haig, in a paper which he gave me yesterday, and which I have submitted to the Committee, says he has no doubt but that 10 per cent, might be produced beyond what is produced now. I have no means of judging whether such an extra quantity could be produced or not, but I think it is extremely probable that it might be. 8805. Where you now produce 20 gallons, you would produce 22?—To the full as much as that. We are impeded in our operations entirely by this Act, and we have no opportunity of taking advantage of many things that we should otherwise take advantage of, on account of the restrictions which it is necessary to lay on for the protection of the duty. I do not complain of those restrictions in the least, because I believe them to he quite necessary. 8806. If you were free, and produced an additional two gallons of spirit for every quarter of corn, in a large distillery, where there was a consumption of 40,000 quarters annually, you would have an increased production of 80,000 gallons a year ?—Yes. T T 4 0.32. 8807. The

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8807. The value of that 80,000 gallons may be looked upon as a direct sum abstracted from you by the excise estrictions?—Unquestionably. 880,8. You said that you did not in any way complain of the excise restrictions, but you deem them to be absolutely necessary for the protection of the revenue ?—I believe them to be necessary. I do not believe that they can be safely taken off, as long as the duty remains as high as it is now. 8809. Mr. Goulburn.] While you complain of the excise restrictions, do not you derive some advantages from them ?—None that I am aware of. 8810. Does not the inspection of the excise officers guard you against fraud on the part of your own servants very frequently ?—We should take care for our own sakes that our servants did not rob us, in the same way that other traders and manufacturers do. The excise officers so constantly taking our stock, if we found suddenly a great decrease in our stock at any time, we should imagine that our servants had robbed us, and of course take measures to discover it. 8811. Does not the supervision of the excise officers during the processes guard you against the abstraction of spirits ?—I do not think it does. Thomas Naghten,

T. Nlighter, Esq.

Esq., called in; and Examined.

8812. Chairman.] YOU are a Proprietor in Demerara, and a West India Merchant ?—I am. 8813. Have you been in the possession of your estates for 30 years?— 1 and my father. 8814. Can you give to the Committee an account of the profit and loss upon those estates for 30 years back ?—I can. 8815. Will you put in the statement which you have of the returns of those estates previous to emancipation, during apprenticeship, and subsequent to the conclusion of apprenticeship ?—I have an account of an estate of mine, called Golden Fleece. In 1825 it gave me a revenue of 7,408/1. ; in 1820, of 5,443/.; in 1827, of 8,021 I.; in 1828, of 5,750/.; those were four years of slavery. Taking the period of apprenticeship, in 1835 the estate gave me 10.927 l.; in 1830 it gave me 9,138/.; in 1837 it gave me 9,150 l.; and in 1838 it gave me 3,929/. In 1847 1 find that my expenses were 5,800 /. I have not sold all my crop yet, but I have 300 hogsheads of sugar, which, taking it at the present prices, will be about 3,000 /.; and 200 puncheons of rum, 2,000 /., which would give me 5,000 /. I shall have a loss on that estate this year of

200 /.

8816. What sort of crop was it ?—The crop last year was a better crop than it has been for some years past. 8817. It was a fortunate season ?—It was a good season, but the prices are so bad. 8818. The price is low and the wages high ?—'Yes I find another estate of mine, in 1825, gave me a net revenue of 8,000 /.; in 1820, it gave me a net revenue of 6,700 l.; in 1827, a net revenue of 10,745/.; and in 1823, 7,448/. In 1835, it gave me a revenue of 7,530 /.; in 1830, 6,300 l ; in 1837, 7,400/.; and in 1838, 1,555 /. I find that last year my expenses on it were 2,000/., and I made 81 hogsheads of sugar, which at 12 l. would be about 970 /.; and 45 puncheons of rum would be 1,420 /.; I shall consequently lose 500 l upon that estate last year. On plantation Columbia I find, in 1825, I had a revenue of 0,098/.; in 1826, a revenue of 3,500/.; in 1827,7,100 l.; in 1828, a revenue of 5,083 /. In 1835, I had a revenue of 6.173 /. ; in 1830, I had a revenue of 3,17 3/.; in 1837, I had a revenue of 5,210 l.; and in 1838, I made a loss of 130 /. Last ye ar I find my expenses were 4,400 /., and I had 200 hogsheads of sugar, which is 2,400 / ; 100 puncheons of rum, 1,100/.; that is 3,500/. I consequently have a loss of 900 /. at the present prices. 8819. Notwitstanding the crop was far above the average crop?—It was not such a crop as I made in slavery and apprenticeship time, but it is a better crop than I have had for some years past. I find from a statement of my estates, made up since the end of apprenticeship, from 1840 to the end of 1847, which I have here in detail, that with the price of the produce, protected as it has been, the losses of one estate have, been met by a gain on another, and they have left me an average income, during those seven years, of about 190/.; but

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

329

if the produce had been at the present price, I should have made an average loss during those years of about 6,000 l. a year. 8820. Can you state to the Committee what the capital from first to last invested in those different estates has been ?—I have a statement as to one estate, Plantation Cane-fields, my father gave 105,000 l. for it. 8821. Have you still the whole of it in your possession ?—No; our family have one half of it. I had a loss last year of 600/. or 700/. The results of my estates, in rough numbers, are these: during slavery we made an average net income of 20,000/. per annum; during apprenticeship, of 18,000/. per annum; I find that since the period of apprenticeship they have just about met the expenses of cultivation. I have myself been resident in the colony upwards of nine years, looking after the estates. During the time of slavery I was under all the disadvantage of mortgage and merchants' commission, and I had high freights to pay. Since apprenticeship I have been resident there myself; the estates have been free from debt; I have had the command of capital, and I have paid an average rate of freight of about 2 s. 6d. a cwt., and I have had my business done on the most economical scale. For a considerable period I have been partner in a mercantile house, and we have done the business ourselves ; the estate, therefore, has had every advantage. 8822. And it admits of no retrenchment which it is practicable to carry out ?—No retrenchments except the cost of labour. I look into every item as closely as I can. 8823. Has there been an effort lately to reduce the price of labour, and with what success had it been attended ?—By my accounts the people have resisted any reduction of wages; not only peaceably resisted it by not working, but I am sorry to say, as the proclamation from the Governor shows, they have tried to intimidate the proprietors into continuing to give them the same rate of wages, by burning down the buildings ; they tried to burn a correspondent of ours out of a dwelling-house on one estate; on another they have burnt down the overseer's house; another correspondent of ours, Mr. Bishop, of Plantation Zorg, states that his megas logies have been burnt down. The megas is the refuse of the cane after the juice has been extracted from it; it is put up for fuel, and it is a great loss to the estate when that is burnt by incendiaries. 8824. Have you adopted every improvement in the way of machinery that you could ?—I have adopted every improvement which I considered practicable with the present disposition that has been exhibited by the negro; no doubt other improvements could be adopted if the negro were the same tractable person as the English workman is ; but we are obliged to be very simple, and to have nothing which can be damaged by neglect or carelessness; the negro works one day, and does not another; he gives us very far from continuous labour, and we are quite at his mercy I may say. 8825. The position of the slave and his master has been entirely reversed; the labourer is now the master of the planter ?—In a tropical climate like that of British Guiana, he is entirely our master. 8826. We have heard a great deal of the possibility of improvement in the economy of labour in British Guiana by the introduction of drainage, and of ploughs and cattle instead of manual labour; what have you to say upon that subject?—I am one of those parties who do not think that we can introduce the plough to any extent in Demerara; we are obliged to intersect the land with small drains, and the cattle tread them in, and tumble down; unless we had tile drainage we could not use the plough, which I do not think to be practicable at the present moment. 8827. Hoes not the rain fall in enormous quantities in that country at times, sometimes something like six or eight or 10 inches in a month?—It is enormous ; I believe as much as in any part of the world; we are beneath the level of the sea, therefore we have no fall to take off the rain except at half-tide, and if we had under-drainage it would require machinery to take it off. 8828. It would be necessary to have your under-drains almost as large as the sewers in the streets of London, to carry of the floods of water that fall at particular times, would not it ?—That is a practical question that I do not feel myself quite competent to answer ; there is an experiment being tried in Demerara by Dr. Sheare, an agricultural chemist, whom the colony has paid for. 8829. Has he done you any good ?—He is trying it; but the experiment has 0.32. U U

727 T. Naghten, Esq. 11 March 1848.

330 T. Nlighten, Esq. 11 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

not been fully tried yet; but it would require such an immense outlay that it would be perfectly impracticable to carry it to any extent at present, particularly under the present circumstances of the West Indies. 8830. What has been the average rate of wages you have paid in latter years and in previous years since the termination of apprenticeship ?—During apprenticeship we had what was called a 7 1/2 hours' task, but it was what the labourers did in four hours; for that we have given them, varying at different periods, from a guilder to five bits and six bits. A guilder is 34 cents, or in English money, I should say from 1 s. 4d. to 2s. 1 d. we have given them. In cane cutting a man will, if he chooses, make a dollar a day, that is 4s. 2d. 8831. To what extent have wages been reduced now ?—We have only proposed to reduce them; we have not effected it. By the last account 16 sugar estates with which we are connected were at a stand still; on my own estates we had not done any work for six weeks when the last mail left. 8832. Then, in fact, the cultivation is abandoned ?— It is temporarily abandoned. 8833. Will there be no crop next year?—I hope I shall take no crop off unless the negro takes lower wages ; it will be better for me to abandon my estate than to go on paying at the rate I have been paying; in fact I have instructed my attorney to give no more wages at the previous rates. 8834. What reduction have you pressed upon your agent?—A reduction of about 30 per cent. I have the statement of an estate for which I am the merchant: it is one of the finest in British Guiana, and it has comparatively plenty of labour. The estates vary very much in British Guiana. This is an estate situate upon the east coast of Demerara, and is one of the finest estates in British Guiana; it has a good soil, and has always en joyed a plentiful command of capital. The crop last year was 690 hogsheads of sugar and 500 puncheons of rum, which at the present price would he about 14,000/.; the expenses of the past year were 13,330/. This I believe to be as fine an estate as there is in British Guiana. It shows that under present circumstances it just makes its way. 8835. Can that estate continue to be cultivated?—Unless the negro comes down in his demands and takes a lower rate of wages, I suppose it will not. 8836. What ought that estate to have returned at the prices of the last few years. If it had had the prices of last year there would have been a clear revenue of upwards of 14,000 l. But for the Act of 1846, the prices continuing what they were, it would have yielded that. 8837. You ascribe this depreciation, do you, to the inundation of slavegrown sugar ?—I consider that the inundation of slave-grown sugar has been a great means towards it. 8838. What help do you conceive there is for you; do you think an unrestricted immigration of free labourers from the coast of Africa would enable you to carry on your cultivation and compete with slave-grown sugar ?—We never could compete with slave-grown sugar, because there you have the command of the labourer; you can have continuous labour, you can cut your canes when they are ripe, and weed them when they want it; we are always subject to the caprice of a free man. If you give me extensive immigration and protection, and adopt, in short, some measure which will give me a higher price for my produce, then I shall do. 8830. Do you think you could go on at a protection of 10 s. a cwt. ?—I do not feel myself competent to say what sum of money the protection should be; I want some measure which will give me an increased price for my sugar. 8840. At what price of sugar do you think you can go on; the present prices which you have been speaking of are 24 s. a cwt. short price, are not they?—Not quite so much as that; Demerara sugar will not average 36s., including the duty. 8841. Would you go on at an average of 42 s. a cwt. ?— I should go on with my estates if I got 42.v. a cwt., if I could hope for more labour. It would not answer my purpose, however, to go and lay out more capital to carry it on. 8842. Have you any doubt, that if the restrictions were removed, you could succeed in supplying yourself amply with labourers from the coast of Africa ? —I do not feel myself competent to give a decided answer about that. From the accounts I hear, some people are sanguine that we could get great quantities ; I should be inclined to try. 8843. What would you pay per head for Africans, if they were apprenticed to you

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

331

you for five years; would you be glad, if they were apprenticed to you for five years, to be at the expense of 10 I. a. head for men and women ?—I should be very happy to pay the expense of 10 /. a head, if I had the certainty that I could have their continuous labour for five years. 8844. Would you be willing to import as many women as men at the rate of 101, a head ?—Yes; I do not object to women. 8845. The fact is that the women work as well as the men, do not they?— They do sometimes ; they cut canes better ; they cut them closer. 8846. Do you know Messrs. Booker, Brothers, & Co. ?—They are merchants in Demerara. 8847. You have before you a letter addressed by them to Messrs. Moss ?—Yes. 8848. Will you read it?—Gentlemen: As the 'Spencer' starts to-morrow, we enclose a bill lading of your shipment by her ; it would have been much more, but a large mud bank having formed in front of Anna Regina, the boat could only bring up a small load. We have been informed to-day that every labourer on the estate had struck, and left the copper wall full of liquor: this is the case with every estate almost in the country, and a most deplorable one it is." That is just the same character as my letters are by the last mail. 8849. That is tantamount to the ruin of the colony ?—If it continues. 8850. If the liquor is kept in the copper wall 24 hours, or, at all events, for 48 hours, it is spoilt, is not it ?—It would all sour. 8851. And that is one of the powers which the negro labourer has over his master, that he knows perfectly well that the master cannot hold out against him, because if he is making sugar, to leave the liquor 48 hours will ruin the whole crop ?—Yes ; but it is not an every-day circumstance their leaving the liquor on the copper wall; that is an extreme circumstance. I frequently get out a gang to cut canes ; I get the canes to the mill-door, and then I cannot get labourers to grind them, and the canes will rot at the mill-door. Those are the disadvantages under which we work now. We are quite at their mercy. I cannot weed my canes when they should be weeded ; I cannot cut them when they ought to be cut, and I cannot plant when I ought to plant. In most parts of the colony we are obliged to take two or three days to cut the canes, and sometimes it happens, after you have done all that, they will rot at the milldoor. 8852. Do you not think that if you were enabled to import a certain number of Africans, or other immigrants, unrestricted by any interference of the Colonial Office, so that you should be able to bind them down to work for you by contracts for five years, and thus be secured continuous work, the moral effect upon the other negroes would be great by finding that you were no longer at their mercy ?—That would be very advantageous. 8853. Do not you think that the advantage would extend further still than the additional labour which you might get ?—Yes; that would have a very great effect. 8854. But it would be a sine qua non that you should be obliged to bind them to work for you by contracts for a period of years ?—If it would enable me to make my sugar cheaper. That would be a sine qua non, to enable me to bear the expense of bringing them. 8855. Is not the taxation of Demerara very heavy ?—The colonial expenditure has very much increased. 8856. It is 250,000 /., is not it?—I have not got the figures. 8857. Do you recollect what it was in 1825; was it 25,000/.?—From 25,000 /. I think the increase has been about a million of dollars, as far as my recollection goes. 88,58. While the profits of the planter have fallen off about 75 per cent.? — I have fallen off from an income of 20,000 l. a year to nothing. 8859. Do not you think that if all the officers of Government, beginning at the head, were to be reduced at the rate of about 30 per cent, in their salaries, that would have some effect in the way of example upon the labourers, making them more willing to submit to reduction ?--I think it would have a good moral effect. 8860. Besides relieving you from a great burthen of taxation?—Yes, it would have a good moral effect upon the negro; it would convince him that it was not the proprietor that was attempting to coerce him. 8861. Demerara once grew coffee and cotton, did not it ?—Yes. 0.32. U u 2 8862. Are

729 T. Naghten, Esq. 11 March 1848,

332

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

8862. Are both those gone now ?—Cotton has quite gone; the coffee has gone, I believe, with the exception of two or three estates in British Guiana. 1848. 8863. What has ruined the cultivation of coffee and cotton ?—The high price of labour has been one thing, and the low price obtainable for the produce here. 8864. Is it the competition of the United States of America that has destroyed the cultivation of cotton ?—Entirely; the slave labour of America has thrown out the cotton. 8865. When did you give up the cultivation of cotton?—I first went to the colony in 1835, and it was nearly all abandoned then. 8866. Was not it a fine quality of cotton?—I believe so ; it was before my days. 8867. Do you know by tradition whether Guiana supplied Holland with the greater part of her cotton at one time ?—It is very probable, but I do not know it. 8868. When was coffee planting abandoned ?—It has been abandoned gradually since apprenticeship. 8869. Was that partly from the competition of foreign coffee?—Yes; the foreign coffee threw us out, and we could not cultivate it. I had the charge of an estate, which I abandoned in 1842, with the crop on the ground; it would not pay me the expense of picking. 8870. Are there any suggestions as regards the industrial laws or the prevention of squatting, which you can make to the Committee; or does the state of the country, lying below the level of the sea, assist in preventing squatting ? —It is open to the negro to buy land from the government; they can buy lands at a guinea an acre, by purchasing 100 acres. 8871. Are they permitted to do that?—Yes; a good many estates which have been abandoned are now parcelled out, and sold to the negroes. They have now joined together and have bought a good many estates, and they sell them out in lots among each other. 8872. Do you think it would be desirable to put an end to that permission, or would that be impracticable ?—I do not see how it would be practicable; there is so much land belonging to the estates that will be abandoned, that there will be no means of preventing it. 8873. Could anything be done in the way of preventing vagabondage and making idle labourers account for themselves ; or is it the fact that they are so well off that they can all get a living ?—Very little enables them to get a living, and you cannot say to a free man, if he can get all he wants in one day's work, that he must work the other five, if he chooses to lie in the sun. 8874. So that there is nothing to be done for Guiana in that way except the importation of fresh labourers ?—Unless you can advance the people in civilization. 8875. Mr. Moffatt.] You stated that the coffee plantations of Demerara have been discontinued to a great extent?—Yes. 8876. You also stated that the discontinuance of the coffee plantations in Demerara was referable to the low price obtained for the article in this country ? —Yes, and the high wages we had to pay to produce it; in fact it was not remunerative to us. 8877. Are you aware what caused the depreciation of price in this country? —No. 8878. Are you aware that this country, which used mainly to be supplied with coffee from the West Indian colonies, is now supplied almost entirely from the island of Ceylon ?— I know that coffee does come from Ceylon, but what comparative extent it bears to the consumption of this country I am not competent to say; I have nothing to do with coffee, and I know nothing about it.

T. Naghten, Esq. 11 March

[The/allotting is the Statement to which the JVitness referred in the course of his Examination:]

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

STATEMENT

731 333

of the Results of the CULTIVATION of Three Sugar Estates, situated in the Colony of British Guiana, during SLAVERY, APPRENTICESHIP, and FREEDOM (exclusive of Interest and Capital).

SLAVERY. Hhds. of Sugar.

Expenses.

Cwt. qrs. lbs. 1825 1826

Gross Amount Received for Crop.

Total

Net Weight of Sugar.

Proceeds of Sugar.

Other Proceeds including Rum and Molasses.

Cost of Producing Sugar.

Net Revenue.

£.

4,699 4,663 5,111 5,478

15 17 15 17

8 4

12,108 12 10,107 16 13,133 3 11,231 12

6 5 4 1

7,843 19 10 6,536 7 4 9,314 18 9 8,414 11 11

19,954

46,581

32,109 17 10

14,471

14,758 2 7 12,641 5 14,930 11 10 12,637 15 4

11,911 6 5 9,725 6 10 11,615 19 6 9,993 1 10

54,967 14

43,245 14

3,338 12 4,749 5 4,079 4 10 4,408 4 10

9,437 5 8 8,342 3 5 11,228 16 9,551 7 10

7,910 15 6,722 19 9,445 7 7,872 19

5 6 4 4

1,526 10 1,619 3 11 About 1,783 8 8 2 d. per cwt 1,678 8 6

38,559 12 11

6,607 11

10,027 15

21,924

107,307 14

32,800 18

25,215

82,092

26,820 18

20,523

£.

4,264 12 3,571 9 3,818 4 2,817 -

8 1 7 2

About 4 s. J per cwt.

5,482 18

2,846 2,915 3,314 2,644

16 18 12 13

11,722

£.

GOLDEN FLEECE :

1827 1828

PLANTATION 1826 1827 6 1828 *

450 450 520 600

6,091 6,102 7,196 8,126

2,020

27,516

0 20 3 7 0 6 2 25 3

7,408 17 6 5,443 18 9 8,021 8 4 5,752 14 9

26,626 19

2 2 4 6

About 5 s. 11 d. per-; cwt.

8,640 15 6,706 15 10,745 9 7,448 3

8 6 6

9,704 10 11

33,541

CANEFIELDS : * -

570 550 550 532

8,581 8,157 8,270 7,935

1 15 0 4 3 23 0 4

6,117 6 11 5,934 9 6 4,185 2 10 5,189 11 10

2,202

32,944

1 18

435 450 500 447

5,732 5,872 6,772 6,232

3 9 1 14 3 20 1 8

1,832

24,610

1 23

16,635

85,071

2 15

58,016

21,207

3 18

14,504

21,426 11

COLUMBIA;

1828 1828

1827 6 -

TOTAL Result of the source Estates for Form 6,054 feurs (Slavey) AVERAGE Annual Result of the Three 1,514 States

140,108 12

35,027

31.952

8,200

6,303 16 about 6 s. p'cw t.

6,098 13 8 3,592 18 5 7,149 11 2 5,083 3 -

APPRENTICESHIP. Hhds. of Sugar.

Net Weight of Sugar. Cwt. qrs. lbs.

1838

1835 1837

8,519 8,328 8,210 5,075

1 4 2 27 1 3 3 6

5,894 17 8,225 8 6,679 17 7,442 11

7 7 8 8

16,821 19 10 17,364 - 6 15,736 8 10 11,372 - 3

12,086 18 12,203 8 11,004 7,454 19

5 9 2 9

2,246

30,134

0 12

28,142 15

61,294

42,809

5,780 5,186 6,032 3,575

3 27 0 0 2 21 2 1

5,507 15 5,041 5,332 7 6,752 9

5 6 4 5

13,038 11,349 12,755 8,308

3 8 1 2 7 8 4 11

20,675

0 21

22,633 12

45,450 17

30,968

14,482 15

C AN CANEFIELDS: ' 389 " 343 " 403 240

1,381

PLANTATION COLUMBIA : 1836 1837 -

Other Proceeds, including Rum and Molasses.

Proceeds, of Sugar.

610 600 600 430

PLANTATION COLONES FLEUCHE : %

Gross Amount Received for Crop.

Total Expenses.

£.

Cost of Producing. Sugar.

4,735 1 6,100 11 4,672 8 3,917 -

5 9 8 6

6 s. 5 d.

9,667 13

18,485

£.

Net Revenue.

£.

10,927 2 3 9,138 11 11 9,156 11 2 3,929 8 7

About per cwt. 2

33,151 13 11

8,845 19 10 7,811 4 11 9,120 15 8 5,184 2 -

4,192 3 10 About 3,537 16 3 >7 s. 11 d. perl 3,628 12 cwt. 1 J 3,124 2 11 8,150 17

7,530 8 6,308 7,423 1,555 15 22,817

3 8 4 6 9

: • -

420 400 400

5,898 5,770 5,672

0 2 1 20 1 5

5,085 11 7 6,969 3 4 5,354 10 11

11,259 1 10,142 17 10,564 17

6 3

8,518 8,017 7,809

8 5 4

3 6 3

2,740 13 2,125 11 2,755 13

3 6 -

221

3,023

5,992

5,861 16

4,014 12

1,847

Loss -

20,363

23,401

37,828 12

28,359 10

9,469

13,932

5,068

71,073

0 11

74,177 14

144,673 19

102,136 .19

42,430 19

31,740 14

1,267

17,768

1838

1,441

18,544

36,143

25,534

5 11

10,009

4 10

About 13S. 8 d. per. cwt.

7,935

6,173 9 11 3,173 13 8 6,210 6 4 14,557 130

9 11 3 8

14,427

70,396

4 11

17,599

3 10

about 8 s. 9 d. per cwt.

32.

U U 3

{continued)

334

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

335

733

Mr. Henry Browning, called in ; and Examined. 8879. Mr. Moffatt.] YOU are very largely engaged in the spirit trade *— Mr. II. Browning. As a Commission Merchant. . 8880. Your firm is more extensively engaged in that trade than any house 11 March 1848. in London, I believe ?—Yes. . 8881. Are you aware whether any rectified spirits are imported from Holland into this country, and re-exported to our colonies?—Yes. 8882. Is that trade carried on to any considerable extent ?—About 400,000 Salons a year are exported from this country; but we are led to believe that a a vast deal goes from Holland direct to the British colonies. 8883. Your impression is, that a much larger quantity than 400,000 gallons, which we know is sent through this country, goes directly from Holland to the British colonies?-Yes. 8884. Is it your opinion that if British rectified spirits were allowed to be exported in bond to our own colonies, England would have the supply of those spirits to the colonies ?—In a very great degree, of course, it must be so, because they would go in so much cheaper. In all our British possessions the the importation of British gin are from 10 to 50 per cent, less than duties upon they would be upon foreign gin; therefore, though perhaps the prime cost might be a little higher, the duty-paid article would be sold much cheaper. 8885. Is there any English gin sent to America?—No ; it is not allowed by law, except duty-paid; therefore it amounts to a prohibition. 8 886. Is it your impression, if gin were allowed to be exported in bond to Ame rica, any extensive trade would be done ?—I think it would be an extensive trade ultimately. 8887. In Canada is there any taste for English gin?—We have had letters asking us to send it, but we have not been able to do so, except with the duties paid upon it. 8 888. Your impression is, that if English gin were allowed to be sent in bond to the British possessions in North America, and to the United States, a condone ?—Yes; and to the East and West Indies, and to siderable trade would be Australia. In Australia it would go in at 3 s. per gallon less duty than gin. 8 889. Seeing that from Holland they now send to our colonies 400,000 gallons,if English gin were allowed to be imported in the various countries you have uarned, you think 10 times that quantity, perhaps, might be sent ?— not to that extent. In the course of years it might amount to a million gallons; but I do not think more than that. 8890. A question has been raised in reference to the contract for spirits for ; can you give this Committee any information upon that point ?— the navy I think I have tendered British raw spirits twice, as against rum. Rum has sometimes been very high, and it has been suggested to me by the distillers in Ireland and Scotland to tender British spirits, and I have tendered them twice, no effect. They were afraid to introduce it into the navy, for the but with sailors Would not like it in its raw state. 8891. Was there any difficulty as to the question of drawback ?—We could or sent raw spirits duty free from the bonded stores in Ireland or Scotland, or from distillers' stocks in England, have never had permission by law to 8892. How is it with English gin ?—We tender that ; but I think that considerable quantities would be used as ship a drawback, storesifwe had apprehend that any difficulty is likely to 8893. As a practical man, do you arisefromBritish British manufactured spirits being allowed to be placed in bond uponthe same restrictions as colonial spirits ?—I think there would be great way of it. Ddifficulty in the 8894. In Scotland and Ireland they place them in bond now?—Rum is title upon the delivered quantity. There would be great difficulty in putbe ting spirts into bon into hond in England, Scotland, and Ireland, allowing the duty to be charger on the delivered quantity, unless there were public warehouses to whole of the spirits could be sent. whic thewhole 8896.of which is the case in regard to rum ?—Yes. If placed upon the same footing as rum. and sent to places of equal u u 4 security,

336 Mr. II. Browning.

11 March 1848.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE

security, there would be no difficulty?—But that is impossible. In the Highlands of Scotland, and in many parts of Ireland, there are no public warehouses to which the spirits could be sent; and in my opinion it would be unsafe to let them be bonded in a distillery warehouse in any part of the United Kingdom, the duty being charged on the delivered quantity. 8897. Rum is only allowed to be placed in warehouses of special security; do you see any objection to allowing British spirits the same privilege as rum, if placed in warehouses of equal security?—No. 8898. Chairman.'] What is the difficulty of giving a drawback?—The difficulty has always been in ascertaining the strength by the hydrometer. I have been in communication with the chairman of the excise a good deal upon the subject, and I think he seems to see that the drawback may be allowed on compounded spirit, provided it is not sweetened. 8899. Is it the sweetening of the spirit that prevents the action of the hydrometer?—Yes; the sweetening being very dense, supports the bulb of the hydrometer, and therefore you cannot ascertain the strength. 8900. They would give you the drawback upon raw spirits ?—Yes, we could ship them from bond; we are allowed by a Treasury Order to send them into bond. 8901. English spirits ?—Yes, for exportation. 8902. How do you deal with it ?—It pays duty, and then when it is sent into the London Docks the distiller gets back the duty. 8903. There is a drawback upon raw spirit?—Yes, allowed under a Treasury Order, by my special application. 8904. Raw spirits are unsaleable, are not they ?—Yes, for consumption in their raw state. 8905. In all countries ?—In all countries. 8906. Therefore to make them saleable they must be compounded, and who'1 they are compounded the drawback is refused?—Yes. Unless they are made from malt or kept a long time, they are unsaleable in all countries for consumption. 8907. The real fact of the matter is, that long keeping stands in lieu of rectification ?—Exactly, and of making spirit from malt. 8908. And malting also stands in lieu of rectification?—Yes. 8909. When you use malt you do not require to keep spirits long, or to rectify ?—Exactly so.

List

SELECT COMMITTEE ON

SUGAR

AND COFFEE

PLANTING.

337

LIST OF APPENDIX.

No. 1.—Copies of any Despatches that may have been addressed to the Secretary of State for the Colonies by any of the Governors of Her Majesty's Possessions in the West Indies or Mauritius relative to the present State or Prospects of the Cultivation of Sugar or Coffee in those Possessions, or containing Representations of the Distressed State of the Planters; also, Copies of any Despatches relating to the Industrial Laws of the before-. .P. 338 mentioned British Possessions WEST INDIA.—Sugar

Planting

WEST INDIA.—Emigration

No. 2.—Copy of a Petition from London Merchants, referred to at Question

No.

5524; 2

- p.

340

-p.

381

March 1848, p. 466

3.,—A

Return of the Quantity of Sugar Imported by the East India Company in each of the last Ten Years in which the East India Company imported Sugar on its own account; also, an Account of the Cost of these Sugars, in each Year, free on Board, in the Bengal Presidency, distinguishing the Value paid for the Sugars, and the Charges on Transit and Shipment (converted into Sterling at s. per Sicca Rupee, the rate at present made use - p. 467 of in the Company's Accounts)

N°- 4—Paper delivered in by S. B. Moody, Esq., Questions 5443-47 :

March

1848,

and referred to in Answers to

Table to show the Cost of Interest of Capital laid out in Machinery and Fuel, to make 400 Tons of Sugar from the Cane by the Beet-Root Machinery, Grinding included, with the necessary Skilled White Labour, and Unskilled Black and White Labour, in - p. 469 Slave and Free Labour Colonies respectively No. 5—A Return of all Parochial and Public Taxes, Rates, and Dues, laid, received, or to be collected for the current Year 1844, in the Island of Jamaica p. 470 A Return of the Estimated Annual Expenditure of the several Parishes in the Island of - p. 470 Jamaica for the Year 1844 6.—Papers delivered in by H. Crossley, Esq.

March

1848 :

The Qualities of the different Sugars defined, with reference to the Duties to be charged thereon; with Letter to the Right Hon. Lord G. Bentinck and the Right Hon. Sir C. Wood, Bart., Chancellor of the Exchequer - p. 478

No No.

7 — Papers delivered in by Mr. Shand,

March

1848,

and referred to in Answer to Question

8104:

Abstract of Expenses of Harts and Royals Estate, from 1847 Harts and Royals Plantation Account, from 5 August last Year of Slavery.) N°. 8.-

1833

August

1846

July

P. 483

to -

August -

1834.

-p.

(The 486

An Account showing the Quantities of Sugar, the Produce of British Possessions, Imported - p. 487 into the United Kingdom in the Years 1845, 1846, and 1847 An Account showing the Quantities and the different Countries from which Foreign Sugar has been imported into Great Britain, in the Years 1845, 1846, and 1847; also, a similar • - p. 488 Account of Foreign Sugar entered for Home Consumption

0.32.•

X x

APPENDIX.

735

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

338

APPENDIX.

Appendix, No. 1. COPIES of any

DESPATCHES that may have been addressed to the Secretary of State for the Colonies by any of the Governors of Her Majesty's Possessions in the West Indies or Mauritius* relative to the present State or Prospects of the CULTIVATION of SUGAR or COFFEE in those Possessions, or containing Representations of the Distressed State of the Planters; Also, COPIES of any DESPATCHES relating

to the

INDUSTRIAL LAWS

of the beforementioned British Possessions.

* (For Correspondence of Mauritius and Trinidad, vide Papers Nos. 61 and 62 of the present Session.)

Colonial Office, Downing-street, 8 March 1848.

HERMAN MERIVALE.

WEST INDIA.-SUGAR PLANTING. SCHEDULE. BRITISH No.

GUIANA.

DATE.

SUBJECT.

Governor Light to Earl Grey

Earl Grey to Governor Light

14 April 1847 (No. 150.)

Governor Light to Earl Grey

Earl Grey to Governor Light

Governor Light to Earl Grey

Earl Grey to Governor Light

Governor Light to Earl Grey

Earl Grey to Governor Light

Mar. 1847 (No. 46.)

June 1847 (No. 114.)

July 1847 (No. 200.) 21 Dec. 1847 (No. 224.)

Feb. 1848 (No. 293.) 1 Jan. 1848 (.No. 1.)

Feb. 1848 (No. 296.)

PAGE.

The advantages derivable from improved Drainage of Lands. Encloses Resolutions of the Court of Policv, the object of which is to obtain aid similar to that granted to the Agricultural Interests of the Mother Country - 340 In reply, cannot undertake to recommend Parliament to furnish the required Capital; if assistance is to be afforded it must be by the Local Legislature; but thinks such improvements should be left to individual The same subject. Transmits a Petition to the House of Commons from a Combined Court, consisting of Members of the Court of Policy and Financial Representatives Reply, that Government cannot entertain the proposition, for reasons stated in Despatch of 14 April Proceedings with a view to induce consent 011 the part of Labourers to a reduction of Wages. Encloses a Circular of the Colonial Secretary, addressed to the Stipendiary Magistrates, with this object In reply, approves the Circular, and requests to be informed of the results to which it may lead Transmitting a series of Resolutions of the Court of Policy in reference to the distressed state of the Colony; and praying a reduction of 25 per cent, upon Salaries fixed by the Civil List, and on all others amounting to 700 dollars and upwards ------In reply, cannot concur in the proposed reduction. The object of the Civil List was to place important Services beyond the reach of varying circumstances ; and the present state and prospects of the Colony are not such as to justify any interference of the Crown in the way suggested

344

344 346

346

348

ANTIGUA. 1 Governor Higginson to Earl Grey. 2. Earl Grey to Governor Higginson. 3. Governor Higginson to Earl Grey.

Fob. 1847 (No. 16.) 29 Mar. 1847 (No. 40.) 26 Dec. 1847 (No. 85.) 17

Transmits copy of Speech on proroguing the Legislature Acknowledging the preceding Despatch

330

Review of the causes and circumstances of the distress at present prevailing in the West India Islands. Encloses a Petition of the Council and House of Assembly to - 350 Parliament, on the same subject

ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

SELECT COMMITTER

No.

4. Earl Grey to Governor Higginson.

DATE. 16 Feb. 1848 (No. 106.)

737 339

SUBJECT.

Reply, that the Government are deeply sensible of the distressing circumstances of the present crisis, and earnestly desire to give every aid in their power to restore prosperity .......

PAGE.

353

JAMAICA. 1. Governor the Right lion. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

25 Mar. 1847 (No. 24.)

2. Earl Grey to Governor the Right lion. Sir C. E. Grey. 3. Governor the Right lion. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey,

24 April 1847 (No. 47.) 21 Sept. 1847 (No. 92.)

Earl Grey to Governor the Right lion. Sir C. E. Grey.

30 Oct. 1847 (No. 98.)

5. Earl Grey to Governor the Right lion. Sir C. E. Grey.

30 Oct. 1847

6. Earl Grey to Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey. 7. Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

16 Nov. 1847 (No. 105.) 6 Nov. 1847 (No. 106.)

8. Earl Grey to Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey.

22 Dec. 1847 (No. 122.)

9. Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

20 Nov. 1 847 (No. 112.)

10. Earl Grey to Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey. 11. Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey. 12, Earl Grey to Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey.

10 Jan. 1848 (No. 126.) 22 Dec. 1847 (No. 125.) 12 Feb. 1848 (No. 140.)

13. Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

7 Feb. 1848 (No. 17.)

1. Governor Reid to Earl Grey -

16 Dec. 1847 (No. 53.)

2. Earl Grey to Governor Reid -

16 Feb. 1848 (No. 48.)

J. Governor Reid to Earl Grey -

31 Jan. 1848

(No.

99.)

Transmits a Memorial to the Queen, praying a reduction of the Duties on Sugar, Coffee, and other articles the produce of Jamaica; the adoption of an extensive system of African Immigration ; and Loans for Drainage and Improvement of Land 354 Ac knowledges the preceding Despatch ; The Queen has been pleased graciously to receive the Memorial - 355 That the low price of Sugar in the London Market threatens many of the Planters with ruin ; and that there are indications of a movement in favour of a return to ..... 355 the principle of Protection In reply, laments the difficulties of the Planters; but states the impossibility of a return to their former protection. The Duty paid in this country is not a burthen upon the Colonists -------- 356 Transmitting Memorial from Proprietors and others connected with Jamaica, representing the increasing difficulties under which the cultivation of Estates is maintained for want of an adequate supply of Labour.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; Measures projected by Her Majesty's Government with a view to relieve this want, and to promote free emi... 356 gration from Africa to the West Indies Further details of the Measures for promoting the Immigration of African Labourers into Jamaica 359 Transmits copies of Speech on opening the Session, with Addresses and Replies thereto.â&#x20AC;&#x201D;Extract from " Morning Journal " on the disallowance of the Act to transfer certain Parochial Charges to the General Revenue - 360 Acknowledges the preceding Despatch; in reference to the Speech of the Governor, regrets that certain portions of it are calculated to foster false views of the causes of distress, and ill-founded hopes of relief. Reasons for the disallowance of the Act for transfer of certain Paro... 368 chial Charges to the General Revenue Transmits Memorial from Planters, &c. to The Queen in Council, praying relief under the present depressed state ----- 370 of the West India Interests Acknowledging the preceding Despatch; that Her Majesty has been pleased graciously to receive the Memorial - 371 Further Memorial from Proprietors and Lessees of Sugar - 372 Estates, on subject of the prevailing Distress In reply, regrets the existence of the Distress described by Memorialists, but believes them mistaken in the causes to which they attribute it, and thinks they take too gloomy a view of their future prospects 373 Transmits Memorial from House of Assembly to The Queen on the distressed state of the Planting Interests, and suggesting Measures of Relief ... -374

GRENADA. Forwards Petition of Inhabitants to the House of Lords, praying the admission of their Produce into the Home Market on the same terms as the products of the Mother Country 377 Acknowledges the preceding Despatch ; cannot recommend to Parliament, a compliance with the prayer of Petitioners. Beet-root Sugar of this Country is subject to the same Duty as Colonial Sugar 377

ST. LUCIA. (No. 1 (i.)

Enclosing Letter from Mr. M. G. Todd, a Planter of St. Lucia, showing that Sugar Cultivation is now carried on at a very considerable loss 378

X X 2

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

340

WEST INDIA—SUGAR PLANTING.

BRITISH GUIANA. Appendix, No. 1. Sugar Planting. BRITISH GUIANA.

— No. 1. (No. 46.) COPY

No. 1. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey. Government House, Demerara, 3 March 1847.

My Lord,

(Received 8 April 1847.)

I HAVE the honour to transmit to your Lordship an extract minute of the Court of Policy of the 1st instant, containing a series of resolutions, proposed by Mr. Rose and seconded by Mr. Croal, the object of which is to obtain for this colony the same support from the British Government which has been granted to the agricultural interests of the mother country. The advantage of an improved system of drainage is now thoroughly acknowledged here. The plot of ground, "five acres," drained under the superintendence of Dr. Shier, agricultural chemist, has shown the feasibility of improvement; a cold, clayey, impenetrable soil has been rendered dry, light, and pulverized, under long and heavy rains, while the neighbouring fields remained saturated with water or overflowed. For want of proper ploughs the drained field has been shovel-ploughed; the easy labour was felt; the field has been planted. It is useless to anticipate results; but longings now have sprung up in the agriculturists to drain their lands. The means are wanting; they feel convinced of the necessity of altering a system of agriculture which from want of hands had rather deteriorated than improved within the last 100 years, and are humbled when they think that by skill, so long unthought of, the land so scantily yielding now might be made to send forth threefold to the owner*. Long before the subject was mooted here, I have often endeavoured to persuade planters to limited but perfect drainage, in order to test the effects on a small scale. They preferred extended cultivation and old habits; they are changed, but as I have said, the means are wanting. I most earnestly recommend the subject to your Lordship's favourable consideration. I know the capabilities of this colony, from east to west, from north to south; it will be a Peru to the mother country at no distant period, if helped in the way proposed. It is now dependent on manual labour, not largely supplied, to prevent lands from being thrown out of cultivation, with scanty crops. Thousands of acres are now lying waste, which a new system would render fertile, and the demand for large importations of emigrants would then almost cease. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Light.

Enclosure in No. 1. Encl. in No. 1.

EXTRACT from the MINUTES of the PROCEEDINGS of the Honourable the Court of Policy of the Colony of British Guiana, at its Adjourned Assembly, held at the Guiana Public Buildings, Georgetown, Demerara. Monday, 1 March 1847. [After Prayers.] THE Honourable Mr. Rose, in pursuance of notice, then moved the following resolutions, which, having been seconded by the Honourable Mr. Croal, were severally read and unanimously adopted by the Court; his honour the Chief Justice alone being absent:—

Resolved— 1st. That British Guiana still continues to suffer great agricultural and commercial distress, brought about chiefly by the circumstance, that the colony has had, within the short period of the last eight years, to pass through the two most important eras in its history, namely, the crisis of emancipation, and that of the removal of protection. 2d. That

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

341

739

2d. That ever since the period of emancipation the colonists have had, and even still Appendix, No, J. have, to contend with a higher rate of wages paid for manual labour than is known in any other part of Her Majesty's dominions, and that this labour is moreover neither effective Sugar Planting. nor continuous. 3d. That in some degree to obviate these difficulties, the colony has expended large BRITISH GUIANA. sums of money in encouraging immigration, whereby the number of labourers has been End. in No. 1. considerably increased, although in some cases at a price which renders British Guiana unable to compete with sugar produced by slave labour; for it can be shown that the price to the colony of bringing a coolie from the East Indies and carrying him back again after the expiry of his term of five years amounts to the average price of an African or negro slave. 4th. That from the extent of uncultivated land, its fertility, and the great physical resources of the colony, there is a constant tendency to squatting, and to the purchase of small holdings, whereby much labour is abstracted from the regular plantations ; and which causes will, probably for generations, tend to enhance the price of manual labour in the colony. 5th. That one of the greatest difficulties with which the planters have to contend is, that the system of drainage, in universal use in the colony, is only adapted to a state of society such as existed prior to the emancipation, when manual labour for every field operation was abundant, effective, and cheap. 6th. That this system of drainage, known as the open-drain and round-bed system, is altogether incompatible with the employment of cattle labour, the use of the most approved implements, and with the introduction of the numerous improved methods of agriculture so well known elsewhere, and which, but for this obstruction, would be at once gladly adopted. 7th. That the present system of drainage is, on a large majority of estates in the colony, incompatible with the production of sugar of average quality and colour, and entails an amount of loss by drainage on ship-board, which greatly reduces the profits and renders the acknowledged fertility of the soil and fecundity of the climate to a great extent unavailing. 8th. That it can be shown that were the planters enabled to adopt a more perfect system of drainage, admitting of the "thorough-drainage," and laying fiat of the surface of the cane fields, many of the difficulties under which they at present labour would be obviated. 9th. That it is the opinion of this court that the following, among other advantages, would accrue :— First. The general use of cattle labour and implements, whereby the present difficulties in respect of high-priced, ineffective, and incontinuous labour would be greatly reduced. Second. That the introduction of all the well-known improvements in agriculture applicable to the colony, as appears both from a consideration of principles and from the experience of other colonies, would be rendered in this colony practicable and easy.

Third. That the quantity of the produce would be increased and its quality improved, and Fourth. That cane cultivation would be less liable to the effects of protracted wet and drought, which at present occasionally interfere with the large returns which might otherwise with considerable confidence be relied on. 10th. That the inhabitants of British Guiana having been placed, by circumstances over which they possessed no control, in a situation of greater depression and hardship than that in which British agriculturists are placed, and that since the rich and low-lying soils of the colony will derive greater benefits than British soils from an improved system of drainage, this Court ventures to hope that Her Majesty's Government will be pleased to extend to British Guiana that most necessary and judicious measure, the Act 9 & 10 Vict. c. 101, under such appointment and regulations for securing the fair and equitable administration of the same as may seem meet. 11th. That His Excellency the Governor be most respectfully solicited to transmit the foregoing resolutions to the Right Honourable Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies. (A true extract.) (signed)

IF. B. Wolselcy, Acting Secretary.

— No. 2. — (No. 150.) COPY

of a

DESPATCH

from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

No. 2. Downing-street, 14 April 1847. Earl Grey to I HAVE received your despatch of the 3d March, No. 46, accompanied by a series of Governor Light. resolutions which had been adopted by the Court of Policy of British Guiana, wherein the wish is expressed, that, following the precedent established by the Act 9 & 10 Vict. c. 101, Her Majesty's Government would be pleased to recommend to Parliament to grant a loan of money to be expended in draining the lands of the colony. 0.32. x x 3 I have Sir,

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT

342

FROM

THE

I have also received your despatch of the 4th March, No. 48, transmitting the copy of a petition to the House of Commons, which is in progress of signature in the colony, on the same subject. Sugar Planting. I am fully sensible of the great importance of adopting the measures for the improvement BRITISH GUIANA. of estates in British Guiana, which are adverted to in these resolutions and the petition, but it will be impossible for me to undertake, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, to No. 2. recommend to Parliament to furnish capital for the purpose. Earl Grey to If any such assistance is to be afforded to individual landowners, it must be by the local Governor Light. Legislature; but my own opinion is, that it will be advisable to leave such improvements to be gradually effected by individual exertion. I have, &c. (signed) Grey. Appendix, No. 1.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 3. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 3. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

(No. 114.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey.

Government House, Demerara, 3 June 1847. (Received 8 July 1847.) My Lord, HAVE the honour to transmit to your Lordship copies of the petition of the members of the Court of Policy and Financial Representatives in Combined Court assembled, to be presented to the House of Commons by Mr. . I have had the honour to express my sentiments on thorough drainage in this country, and I would gladly see the introduction of the improved mode of agriculture which would be the result of the drainage sought. Without help from some quarter or other, these improvements cannot be made, which, as I have often said, would convert this into one of the greatest sugar-producing colonies in the world. I have, (See. (signed) Henry Light. I

Blank in original.

Enclosure in No. 3.

Encl. in

No. 3.

EXTRACT from the MINUTES of the PROCEEDINGS of the Honourable the Court of Policy of the Colony of British Guiana, combined with the Financial Representatives of the Inhabitants of the said Colony, at its Annual Assembly, held at the Guiana Public Buildings, Georgetown, Demerara. Wednesday, 2 June 1847. THE Honourable Mr. Rose then brought up, in pursuance of the notice which he had given on the 28th ultimo, an address to the Honourable the House of Commons which was read by the secretary, and on the motion of the Honourable Mr. Rose, seconded by Mr. Porter, the address was unanimously adopted by the Court. His Excellency the Governor being respectfully requested to forward a copy of the same to the Right honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies.

(True extract.) (signed)

W. B. Wolseley, Acting Secretary.

To the Honourable the Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, in Parliament assembled ; The

of the Undersigned, Members of the Court of Policy, and of the Financial Representatives of British Guiana, in Combined Court assembled.

PETITION

Respectfully sheweth, British Guiana still continues to suffer great agricultural and commercial distress, brought about chiefly by the circumstance, that the colony has had, within the short period of the last eight years, to pass through two the most important crises in its history, namely, the crisis of emancipation, and that of the removal of protection. That ever since the period of emancipation, proprietors of estates in the colony have had, and even still have, to contend with a higher rate of wages paid for manual labour than is known in any other part of Her Majesty's dominions; and that this labour is moreover neither effective nor continuous, although it is by it alone that their present cultivation is maintained That in some degree to obviate these difficulties, proprietors of estates have expended large sums of money in encouraging immigration, whereby the number of labourers has been THAT

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

343

been considerably increased, although at a price which renders your petitioners unable to compete with sugar produced by slave labour; for it can be shown that the price to the colony of bringing a coolie from the East Indies and carrying him back again after the expiry of his term of five years, amounts to the average price of an African or negro slave. That your petitioners are able to show, that since the period of the abolition of slavery, the proprietors of estates, with the view of saving their properties from ruin, have expended a sum of money equal to, and in many cases greater than, the whole amount of the compensation which they derived from the Emancipation Act. That this sum has been expended partly on improved machinery used in the manufacture of sugar, such as steam-engines and mills of superior construction, on appliances for diminishing the amount of manual labour, such as cane carriers, megass elevators, railways, and the like. It has also been partly expended in providing cottages and grounds for the accommodation of labourers, a large influx of whom they had every reason to expect; but your petitioners' hopes having, in this latter respect been disappointed, it is now necessary for them to have recourse to a system in which they shall not be so much dependent on manual labour as they have formerly been. That from the extent of uncultivated land, its fertility, and the great physical resources of the colony, there is a constant tendency to squatting, and to the purchase of small holdings, whereby much labour is abstracted from the regular plantations ; and these causes will, probably for generations, continue to enhance the price of manual labour in the colony. That your petitioners beg most earnestly to call the attention of your Honourable House to the fact, that the system of drainage in universal use in the colony, is only adapted to a state of society such as existed prior to emancipation, when manual labour for every field operation was abundant, effective, and cheap. That this system of draining, known as the open-drain and round-bed system, compels the sugar growers of the colony to continue a method of cultivating their fields by manual labour, which is the dearest, and which moreover is inefficient as compared with methods employed by other colonies. That this system is altogether incompatible with the employment of cattle-labour, the use of the most approved agricultural implements, and with the introduction of the numerous improved methods of agriculture so well known elsewhere, and which, but for this obstruction, the proprietors of estates in the colony would at once gladly adopt. That the present system of drainage is, on a large majority of estates in the colony, incompatible with the production of sugar of average quality and colour, by reason chiefly of the large quantity of saline matter which exists in the soils, and from which they cannot be freed by the ordinary method of draining. That the presence of this saline matter, moreover, entails on proprietors of estates an amount of loss by drainage of sugar and molasses on ship-board during the homeward voyage of their produce, which greatly reduces their profits, and renders the acknowledged fertility of the soil and fecundity of the climate to a great extent unavailing. That your petitioners can show that were the sugar growers of this colony enabled to adopt a more perfect system of drainage, admitting of the "thorough drainage" of the land by close or covered drains, and laying flat the surface of the cane-fields, most of the difficulties under which they at present labour would be obviated. Your petitioners are of opinion that the following, among other advantages, would accrue from the introduction of such thorough drainage :â&#x20AC;&#x201D; 1st. The general use of cattle-labour and implements, w hereby the present difficulties in respect of high-priced, ineffective, and incontinuous manual labour, would be greatly reduced. To illustrate this point more fully, your petitioners may state, that in the best farmed districts of Scotland, on a liberal computation, which embraces both green-crop weeding and harvest work, six adults, with four good Clydesdale horses, two ploughs, and the other implements corresponding to the two ploughs, are known to labour 100 acres on the four-course rotation. In this colony, to cultivate 100 acres and manufacture the produce, SO negroes, working well and continuously, are required. But as the Scotch labourers only partially manufacture the produce, and our labourers both cultivate the sugar-cane and manufacture the sugar, it is but fair to double the number of Scotch labourers per 100 acres, to secure a fair comparison. Hence it follows, that the four horses, two ploughs, and corresponding implements, effect a saving of 38 labourers per 100 acres of cane cultivation and manufacture, a saving which it is obvious that no measure of immigration can possibly supply to the colony at the same cheap rate, even if it were otherwise equally valuable. 2d. That the introducticn of all the well-known improvements in agriculture, applicable to the colony, as appears both from a consideration of principles, and from the experience of other colonics, would be rendered to colonial landowners practicable and easy. 3d That the quantity of the produce would be increased and its quality improved. 4th. That cane cultivation would be less liable to the effects of protracted wet and drought, which at present occasionally interfere with the large returns which planters might otherwise with considerable confidence rely on. 5th. That the eflect on the labouring classes themselves of substituting improved implements for the present very imperfect methods, would be highly beneficial, anil would tend to improve and elevate the condition of such especially as already possess small lots of land, 0.32. x x 4 the

741 Appendix, No. 1. Sugar Planting. BRITISH GUIANA.

Encl. in No. 3.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

344

Appendix, No. 1. the want of efficient drainage being a main cause of the very limited and imperfect cultivaSugar Planting. BRITISH GUIANA.

Encl. in No. 3.

tion of almost all such lots. 6th. That improved drainage and cultivation of the soil would be found to prevent disease, to moderate the virulence of epidemics, and to improve the general health of the community. That since the landowners of this colony have been placed, by circumstances over which they possessed no control, in a position of greater depression and hardship than that in which British agriculturists are placed, since it can be satisfactorily shown that the rich and low-lying soils of this colony will derive greater benefit than British soils from an improved system of drainage, and that the great want of the colony, a want not felt by the British agriculturist, namely, the want of labour, is thereby nrost likely to be permanently supplied, your petitioners venture to hope that your Honourable House will regard colonial landowners as entitled to the same consideration as British landowners, and that you will be pleased to extend to this colony, under such appointments and regulations for securing the fair and equitable administration of the same as may be considered necessary, similar advantages to those conferred by that most necessary and judicious measure," the Act 9 & 10 Vict. c. 101. May it therefore please your Honourable House to take the foregoing statements into consideration, and to pass for the colony of British Guiana an Act of similar import and tendency to the Drainage Act above referred to. And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. British Guiana, 3 June 1847. (signed) Willium Airindell, and 12 others.

•— No. 4. — (No. 200.)

Earl Grey to Governor Light.

of a

from Earl Grey to Governor Light. Downing-street, 14 July 1847. I HAVE received your despatch, dated 3 June (No. 114), accompanied by the copy of a petition which is about to be presented to the House of Commons from the members of the Court of Policy and Financial Representatives of Britisii Guiana, in combined court assembled, praying that the same facilities may be extended by the Home Government to the agriculturists of that colony in the draining of their lands, as have been granted to the British agriculturists under the Act 9 & 10 Vict. c. 101. I refer you to my despatch of the 14th April last (No. 150), for the reasons why Her Majesty's Government will not be able to entertain this proposition. I have, &c. (signed) Grey. COPY

NO. 4.

DESPATCH

Sir,

— No. 5. — (No. 224.) of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey. Government House, Demerara, 31 December 1847. (Received 3 February 1848.) My Lord, Governor Light to Earl Grey. MY knowledge of the very critical position of the planter interest of the colony made me readily adopt the suggestions of the unofficial members of the Court of Policy, "to instruct the stipendiary magistrates by private communication to exert themselves amongst the labourers of their respective districts, in order to induce a consent to a reduction of wages, or at all events to lower their pretensions to heavy payment for the ordinary labour of the estates. In August and September 1838, when I visited the different districts of the province, I endeavoured to impress on the minds of the labourers, in opposition to their ideas of emancipation, that their sole property consisted in the industry of their hands; if they asked too much for their hands, which they were very much inclined to do, the planters would close their sugar works and abandon their cultivation. As affairs now stand, one-half the sugar estates will be unable to carry on the cultivation, unless the price of labour is reduced, and the labourers will learn the truth of my doctrine. I allowed and approved of Mr. Walker's letter to the magistrates, and respectfully submit it for your Lordship's approbation. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Light. COPY

No. 5.

Enclosure in No. 5. (Private.) Encl. in No. J.

Government Secretary's Office, Demerara, Sir, 24 December 1847. the very critical state of the most important interests of this colony, consequent on the great and unusual depreciation of the value of its staple productions in the markets of the mother country, and the disastrous state of commercial affairs generally throughout the empire, the Governor is induced, at the suggestion and in compliance with the wish of the IN

Court

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345

749

Court of Policy, to direct me to address you, with the object of engaging your assistance in Appendix, No. 1. an endeavour to act upon the intelligence, no less than the good feeling of the agricultural Sugar Halting. labourers of all classes throughout this extensive province. You will readily understand that what is looked for at your hands, is to put yourself BRITISH GUIANA without delay in personal communication with the labourers of your district, addressing yourself chiefly, in the firs tinstance, to the native or Creole labourers, whose example, it may Encl. in No. 5. be reasonably inferred, will be to a certain extent influential over those of foreign origin, and to bring before them, in plain and intelligible language, the exact position of the capitalists whose means are invested in the cultivation of the soil and manufacture of the produce of the West India colonies at large. It should be pointed out to them, that whereas in a state of slavery they had no power to modify or to aid in remedying adverse circumstances, if such had then existed, they are now in a situation to evince at once their knowledge and appreciation of their more elevated social condition, by acting as those who are not merely free agents, but members of a community so constituted that no one class can seriously suffer in its interests without every other, even to the most humble, sharing in a greater or lesser proportion the disadvantages of such depression, whether temporary or permanent. They may be made to understand, that while the capital of the landed proprietor is in the shape of money invested in the soil of the estate, in the buildings which are needful for the manufacture of its produce, in the machinery and stock necessary to bring that produce to a state fit for manufacture and for sale; their capital in the shape of labour, on the other hand, is not less clearly and absolutely connected with the same tangible representatives of its value, and that the profits eventually derived from the result of these combined investments should be proportionately shared between the several classes who contribute them. If, therefore, it can now be demonstrated that the proprietor of the soil, who could not long since realize $ 80 for every hogshead of his sugar sent to market, of which he paid to the labourers who aided in its production their share of the profits, can now only obtain $40, or, at the utmost, $45, for precisely the same quantity of precisely the same article, they will not be slow to understand that he can no longer continue, out of the diminished price, to pay them the same proportion of profit as before. Illustrations of a familiar and appropriate character will readily suggest themselves to you; and it would be as impracticable as it will doubtless be unnecessary for me to supply detailed comments on a state of affairs with respect to which an exposition of the simple facts will probably furnish the most eloquent as well as the most effective arguments. But it may be strongly impressed upon the labourers, that if, owing to the cost of production continuing so high as to render it no longer an object to the proprietor of the soil to continue its cultivation, estates should be generally given up, there is no other resource to which the labourers can apply themselves with the view of obviating the distress to which they will be exposed ; nor any employment accessible to them in any neighbouring country calculated to supply the place of that to which they have been so long habituated, and which, if once failing generally, there is but little room to hope would ever regain its once flourishingcondition. It is true that the lands of this colony are almost boundless in their extent, and that their fertility is perhaps unsurpassed, but these advantages will afford no adequate substitute for the cessation of regular cultivation; even if they furnished the labouring classes with the means of subsistence, there would be no prospect of any onward progress in the scale of social life; the physical comforts, the facilities of instruction to themselves and children, and all the range of more elevated hopes and views, now freely opened to them, must be exchanged for the mere vegetative existence of uncivilized men, from which they may all be said, by the favour of Providence, to have been rescued. There is one other point to which, before I conclude, I am also to draw your attention, for although of comparatively minor importance, it is by no means lightly to be regarded. I allude to the groundless alarm which is understood to prevail to a great extent amongst the agricultural population relative to the value of the notes issued by the local banks. It is necessary to explain to them that these institutions are accustomed to have in circulation a larger amount in notes than they have specie in their coffers, and consequently, that if within any short space of time the whole of their notes should be suddenly returned to them, with a demand that they should be exchanged for specie, it would be literally impossible lor these institutions to meet such a contingency. They may also be assured that they who endeavour to awaken their fears in regard to these notes have some selfish object in view, arid are disposed to create mischief for the sake of deriving some possible gain to themselves at the expense of the less subtle and more timid members of the labouring classes. The Governor is quite aware that the result of the interposition which you are thus officially instructed to exercise must materially depend upon the tact, ability, and discretion with which a task so delicate and peculiar in its character is performed. He relies, however, with unreserved confidence on your zealous disposition to co-operate in an undertaking on which perhaps more may really depend than might at first sight be supposed ; and he cordially hopes that the success which may crown your endeavours will reflect no less credit on the intelligence and good feeling of the peasantry, than afford conclusive evidence that the influence of your highly responsible position in regard to them is not limited to the mere effect of the exercise of official authority. You will be pleased to regard this communication as confidential. 0.32.

I have, &c. Y Y

346

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Appendix, No. 1. bugar Planting. BRITISH GUIANA.

No. 6.

Ear! Grey to Governor Light.

— No. 6. — (No. 293.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

Sir, Downing-street, 12 February 1848. I HAVE to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch of the 31st December, No. 224, transmitting a copy of a letter, which, with your sanction, Mr. Walker, the Colonial Secretary, had addressed to the stipendiary magistrates, directing them to exert themselves in order to induce the labourers to consent to a reduction of their wages. I have to express my approval of this circular. The subject to which it relates is one of the deepest importance to the landed proprietors of the colony, and you will not fail to keep me fully informed of the results to which it may lead. I have, &c. (signed) Grey.

— No. 7. — No. 7. Governor Light to Earl rey.

137,060 dollars; the amount this probably exceed what I have put down in round numbers For 1846; there will he an increase this year.

From the Civil List.

(No. 1.) EXTRACT

of a

DESPATCH

from Governor Light to Earl Grey.

Government House, Demerara, 1 January 1840. My Lord, (Received 3 February 1848.) AT a meeting of the Court of Policy of the 30th December last, at which your Lordship will find there were only three unofficial members and three officials, including myself, present, a series of resolutions was introduced by Mr. White, and seconded by Mr. Stuart, which, being read in Court, I was requested to transmit to your Lordship. These resolutions set forth that the colony is now in such a distressed state, and its prospects so unfavourable, that it will be unable to bear the expense of the present civil list, and therefore your Lordship is prayed to allow of a reduction of 25 per cent, on the salaries therein fixed ; and that all salaries of $ 700 and upwards, shall receive the same ratio of reduction. These resolutions assume that the policy of Her Majesty's Government is the cause of the difficulties of the agricultural interest of the province, and therefore the civil list granted in 1844, in faith of other measures, should be reduced. It is very true that the estimate for 1847 amounted to $ 1,083,981, but of this, except in conjunction with the mass, the planters only paid $33,005, or one per cent.; while the interest of the first realization under the Loan Ordinance amounts to $50,000, and will annually increase. The money raised for emigration purposes on the estimate was $ 100,000 over and above the loan. The hospitals (colonial and seamen's), required $45,819; the patients in the former chiefly emigrants. Police establishments, $ 128,812. 25 cents. No doubt these and other items have swelled the amount of estimate far beyond what it was previous to emancipation ; but resources have presented themselves to the ways and means never contemplated in slavery nor apprenticeship ; the distribution of rum was a constant drain on the planters ; that has ceased, and the rum duty realizes $ 130,000, while the sale of rum and spirits regulated by law produces annually $ 72,953. 35 cents, and licences are greedily sought after by all classes of the community. While emancipation has increased the estimate, yet the result has been new institutions, and new modes for providing their progress and support; the agricultural interest is greatly depressed, but the mass is rich, and the proofs of this are constantly given. Flour, bread stuffs, wines, and foreign spirits were formerly luxuries, consumed by the upper classes alone; they are taxed, and produce a large income; they are, however, unnecessary to the labouring classes, as plantains are the staple food, wines are holiday drinks, and spirits not the produce of the estates, though drank by the more wealthy of the blacks, may be still considered an unnecessary luxury. These taxes produce $ 200,565. 05 cents ; huxtering, formerly confined to few persons, and in the neighbourhood of the capitals, now, being universal, produced $8,170 last year; while shop licences, confined formerly to the capitals, are required for every hundred yards throughout the colony, and produce $ 11,452. 84 cents. Keeping these things in view, we must hesitate before we declare the colony incapable of bearing the expenses of its public establishments and therefore requiring a reduction of 25 per cent, on the civil list and on all salaries of $700 and upwards. The civil list was loaded at the instance of Mr. Rose, in 1840, with the payments of the clergy; at that date the civil list was proposed for 20 years, or for the life of the sovereign. I was adverse to Mr. Rose's proposal, as I considered that hereafter it would be proper, and probably be found expedient, to make the parishes tax themselves for the payment of the clergy. Mr. Rose's proposal was adhered to by Sir Henry Macleod, and subsequently in 1844, by me ; the clergy received $ 45,263. 84 cents. It would be unjust to reduce the salaries of the clergy ; they suffer inconveniences and privations in the rural districts; if thev do their duty, they are not over paid.

This

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This colony, to all whose tastes are beyond salt fish and meats, and plantains, is an expensive, wasteful residence; there is not a salary here that gives proportional comforts or enjoyment to what one-half or two-thirds would give in England. If efficiency is to be preserved in the various departments of the colonial administration, such a sweeping reduction should not be permitted till much more marked proofs be given of the total inability of the colony to afford the payment of 39,0721. 17 s.

751 Appendix, No, 1. Sugar Planting. BRITISH GUIANA.

No. 7. Governor Light to It is urged that the planters cannot justly reduce the wages of the labourers without Earl Grey. **********

reducing the salaries of officials. The labourer of ordinary work in the field completes his task in four or five hours, hitherto paid at the rate of four, five, or six bitts per day : supposing each ratio to be reduced a bitt, the labourer, by adding another hour to his work, can still earn as much as before. Can the paid servant of the public do so ? It may be that more chances of prosperity will be presented before the meeting of the Combined Court, which I most earnestly pray may be the case; but as they at present stand, I fear there will be difficulty in settling the financial session amicably.

s. 4 d., 1 s. 8 d., 2 s. 1 d.

I have, &c. (signed)

Henry Light.

Encl. in No. 7.

Enclosure in No. 7. EXTRACT from the MINUTES of the PROCEEDINGS of the Honourable the Court of Policy of the Colony of British Guiana, at an extraordinary Assembly held at the Guiana Public Buildings, Georgetown, Demerara. Thursday, 30 December 1347. Absent:

Present: His Excellency Henry Light, Esq., Governor, &c. The Honourable R. R, Curry, Acting Attorney-general. The Honourable W. Walker, Government Secretary. The Honourable J. T. White. The Honourable James Stuart. The Honourable Petre Rose.

The Honourable Wm. Arrindell, Acting Chief J ustice. The Honourable Charles Robinson, Collector Customs. The Honourable John Jones.

[After Prayers.] THE Honourable Mr. White moved, seconded by the Honourable Mr. Stuart, the following resolutions. Agreed to. The official members declining to express any opinion, ordered, That the Governor be respectfully requested to transmit a copy of those Resolutions to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, for the consideration of Her Majesty's Government.

(True extract.) (signed)

William Walker, Secretary.

RESOLUTIONS. THAT this colony, being essentially agricultural, and possessing neither manufactures nor commerce, is dependent for its prosperity or decay upon the extent of its exports, and the value which they may realize in the markets of Europe. That in consequence of the recent measures of the Imperial Government, by which sugar the produce of slave labour has been admitted to competition with sugar the produce of free labour, the value of our colonial exports has diminished to an alarming extent, and cannot now be estimated at more than $ 3,500,000, or about 700,000/. sterling. That the estimate of expenditure passed for the current year amounts to $1,083,981, or very nearly one-third in value of the total amount of our exports during the same period. That under these circumstances of distress and exhausted resources, it has become matter of imperative necessity that an extensive reduction should be carried out in every branch of the annual expenditure. The colony is no longer able to continue the liberal outlay which has been hitherto extended with no niggard hand in support of the civil Y v 2 0.32. government.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

348

government, anil of our various public institutions, civil, ecclesiastical, educational, and eleemosynary. Many of these institutions were established after the era of freedom in Sugar Planting. 1838, and have since been maintained, and have been enlarged to the utmost limits of our resources, in order to promote the civilization and social progress of the emancipated BRITISH GUIANA. classes. That the civil list of 1841, amounting to the large su n of 39,072 l. 17s. 4d., was founded Encl. in No. 7. on the presumption, that, whatever other changes the Imperial Government might deem it necessary to introduce into the commercial relations of the mother country, sugar the produce of slave labour would, under every contingency, continue to be excluded from admission into the home markets upon equal terms with sugar the produce of free labour. That the civil list of 1841 terminating on 31 December 1847, was renewed in 1844 for a period of seven years, the colonial legislature being impressed with the conviction that the exclusion of slave labour sugar from the home markets was a fundamental principle of the policy of the mother country, to which the faith of the nation had been irrevocably pledged. That the civil list of 1841 would not have been renewed in its integrity, if the coloniallegislature could have foreseen that the ancient landmarks of the Imperial commercial policy were so soon to be swept away, and that distress and decay, as a result of those changes, would so soon threaten to overwhelm the most important interests and most valuable institutions of this once prosperous colony. This court therefore, actuated by the firm conviction that the colony is no longer able to bear the burden of the annual expenditure hitherto incurred, considers,â&#x20AC;&#x201D; I . That the present civil list ought to be reduced at least 25 per cent., and that Her Majesty's Government be therefore solicited to authorize his Excellency the Governor to sanction such reduction on every item of the civil list. 2. That a searching and rigid economy is imperatively necessary in every department of the public expenditure, so as to adapt the various institutions to the altered circumstances and reduced means of the colony, and that all salaries exceeding $ 700 per annum should be reduced in a corresponding ratio with the reductions in the civil list. Appendix, No. 1.

(True copy.) (signed)

William Walker, Secretary.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 8. No. 8. Earl Grey to Governor Light.

(No. 296.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

Sir, Downing-street, 15 February 1848. I HAVE to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch of the 1st ult., No. 1, transmitting a copy of certain resolutions passed by the Court of Policy on the 30th December last, praying, in consequence of the distressed state, and the unfavourable prospects of the colony, that Her Majesty's Government will sanction a reduction of 25 per cent, upon the salaries fixed by the civil list, and on all salaries of 700 dollars and upwards. I request that you will inform the Court of Policy that I am unable to concur with them in the proposed reduction of salaries on the civil list. The object of the civil list passed in 1841, and extended in 1844, was to place those few but most important services for which it provides beyond the reach of varying circumstances; and the stability of these services being secured for the specified term, Her Majesty's Government left the remainder, being the bulk, or about six-sevenths of the revenue, to be dealt with by the Combined Court, at their discretion, and I am not aware of any circumstances in the present state of the colony which would justify the Crown in interfering with those salaries for which the parties receiving them have the security and pledge of the civil list. On referring to the returns which accompanied your Report on the Blue Book for 1846, I find that the revenue of the colony since the passing of the civil list has been as follows: 1842 1843 1844 1845 1840

$ 838,970 829,808 832,479 825,198 900,849

And although, of course, I am not in possession of any return for the past year, the Revenue, in the estimate of ways and means transmitted in your despatch of the 30th June last, is calculated at $ 1,135,507, leaving a surplus of $ 52,526 over the estimated expenditure. In communicating on this subject with the Court of Policy, you will assure that body that I deeply lament the distressed state of the colony to which they call my attention in their resolutions, although I cannot agree with them as to the causes to which they attribute their distresses, and as there is no colony in which greater or more enlightened endeavours have been made for the improvement of agriculture and manufacture than in British Guiana, I trust that when the present crisis is past, they will not fail to reap the fruits of the energy and

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SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

349

753

and perseverance with which they have met, and will, I hope, continue to meet, all difficul- Appendix. No. 1. ties to which they have been exposed. Sugar Planting. And with regard to defalcations of revenue, as the main part of the revenue is raised by duties on the importation of articles consumed, not by the planters alone, but by the labouring population also, I do not anticipate that the loss of revenue will be commensurate BRITISH GUIANA. with the distress of the planting interest; and so far as loss may be occasioned by a fall of No. 8. wages, and a consequent decrease in the consumption of imports by the labourers, the same Earl Grey to cause will bring relief to the planters. Governor Light. I have, &c. (signed) Grey.

ANTIGUA.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 1.

ANTIGUA.

(No. 16.) COPY

of a

DESPATCH

from Governor Higginson to Earl Grey.

Government House, Antigua, 17 February 1847. (Received 22 March 1847.) My Lord, I H AvE the honour to transmit herewith a copy of a speech which I this day delivered on proroguing the Legislature of this island. I have, &c. (signed) Jas. M. Higginson.

No. 1. Governor Higginson to Earl Grey.

Enclosure in No. 1. EXTRACT.

Bill passed by the local Legislature to encourage the importation of manual labourers has not yet, as you are aware, received the confirmation of the Crown; but I indulge the hope that the explanations which have been furnished to Her Majesty's Secretary of State will tend to remove the objections that have been taken to some of its provisions. I do not apprehend any injury to the interests of the native labourer from the operation of the proposed law; while it may fairly be assumed that the introduction of foreign aid, to such an extent as will meet the admitted deficiency of regular and continuous labour, so essential to the profitable cultivation of estates, would add materially to the wealth and prosperity of the general community. At the same time, I am bound to state that, however immigration may be by some regarded as the panacea for the difficulties against which the British West India sugargrowers are now called on to struggle, there are other measures that appear to me to hold out reasonable expectations of more certain and more permanent relief. The formation of an independent native peasantry, embued with a direct and personal interest in the soil, would, I conceive, create a more real and abiding source of future prosperity; and Antigua enjoys the proud satisfaction of having early planted the germs of such a class by that distinguished Act of her Legislature which, in 1834, with righteous liberality, effaced from her statute book every relic of slavery, and at once conferred upon the negro population the rights and privileges of free men. Hence have sprung up the numerous smiling villages that surround us, and in which at some future day may be found the industry and spirit of the British yeoman. The intelligent proprietary of this colony are fully sensible of the vast importance of substituting, to the utmost practicable extent, implemental for manual, brute for human labour; and of introducing such other improved processes of agriculture and of manufacture as may be found applicable to our necessities. The value of such auxiliaries as these is now universally admitted, and many persons here have, in a greater or less degree, invoked their aid. I trust that this manifestly wise course may soon be followed by all, for I know none other to which we can look with the same degree of confidence. Agricultural societies have been formed, but they languish for want of encouragement and support. As they have in other countries essentially contributed to keep alive a spirit of enterprise and improvement, let us cherish them in this, and endeavour to extend their more active operation ; for here, as elsewhere, such institutions are unquestionably calculated to promote the attainment of the great end in view, namely, larger returns without a proportionate advance of costs; and these our fertile soil abundantly promises to the application of increased skill. The education of the children of the labouring classes lias been pressed upon your consideration, in order that assistance from public funds may be granted towards, that momentous object; and I confidently hope that at our next meeting a question, in which the best interests and future welfare of Antigua are so deeply involved, will be dealt with in that spirit of enlightened liberality for which her Legislature has long been conspicuous. It Y Y 3 0.3. THE

End. in No. 1.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

350

It cannot be doubted that the advancement and improvement of the emancipated population will exercise a great and beneficial influence over the future destinies of these colonies, Sugar Planting. and that religious and industrial instruction is indispensable to the formation of such a class of intelligent and trustworthy labourers, as will enable those interested in the soil to reap in BRITISH GUIANA. full the advantages offered, by the adoption of more skilful and economical methods of husbandry and manufacture. End. in No. 1. But above all, that manly spirit and cool determination which the impending danger has called forth, and which has won for you the high approbation and cordial sympathy of the Imperial Government, will, under the Divine blessing, carry this fair island triumphant through all difficulties; and if steadily and vigorously persevered in, must eventually restore and maintain her prosperity. Appendix, No. 1.

Mr. Speaker, and Gentlemen of the Legislative Assembly, I thank you for the supplies which have been provided, and which it will be my duty to take care are economically and effectively applied to the purposes for which they have been granted. Although extraordinary charges upon the revenue, consequent on the destruction of public property by the calamitous visitation of 1843, have exhausted the surplus appearing at the credit of the island on closing the accounts for 1845, our financial prospects seem in no respect discouraging. We are not in debt, and as the only sound system of finance is to keep expenditure within the amount of income, we must be prepared, if from any cause our means should fall short of our unavoidable expenses, to raise the revenue by resorting to additional taxation. I am satisfied that you entertain too just a sense of what is due to public credit, and to the maintenance of a proper provision for carrying on the public service, to hesitate in adopting the course which I venture to indicate if the exigency of the case should demand it. Mr. President, and Honourable Gentlemen of the Legislative Council, Mr. Speaker, and Gentlemen of the Legislative Assembly, You will readily unite with me in humble gratitude to our all-wise Creator for the favourable season which His bounty hath vouchsafed to us, and for the cheering prospect of an abundant harvest which we are permitted to enjoy. It is unnecessary for me to remind you that your obligations to the country do not cease with the suspension of your legislative functions, and that upon every station in life the interests of the public have a legitimate demand, which it is the duty of all to discharge to the utmost of their ability. The moral influence which it is in your power to exert over the well-being of the lower orders, whether as magistrates, landlords, or employers, is very great; and I sincerely believe that whilst a well-conducted and orderly peasantry, such as this island is blessed with, continue to look to you for protection and encouragement they will not be disappointed. I fear that I have detained you too long, but I was unwilling to lose this opportunity of making known the conclusions to which 1 have been led in regard to some measures bearing so directly on the welfare of a community whom it is my ardent desire to see prosperous, contented, and happy. I do now in Her Majesty's name prorogue this General Assembly to the 29th day of March next, and it is hereby prorogued accordingly.

No. 2. Earl Grey to Governor Higginson.

— No. 2. — (No. 40.) of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Higginson. Downing-street, 29 March 1847. I HAVE the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch of the 17th February, No. 16, transmitting a copy of the speech addressed by you to the Legislative Council and House of Assembly of Antigua upon the occasion of their late prorogation. Yours, &c. (signed) Grey. COPY

Sir,

— No. 3. — No. 3. Governor Higginson to Earl Grey.

(No. 85.) EXTRACT

of a

DESPATCH

from Governor Higginson to Earl Grey.

Government House, St. John's, 26 December 1847. My Lord, (Received 31 January 1848.) THE majority of estates are heavily encumbered, and very few of the proprietors have capital at command, and the ruinous rate at which they are compelled to borrow greatly augments the cost of production. I do not believe that at the present prices half the gross proceeds

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351 /

proceeds of sales are netted by the sugar grower, the larger portion being swallowed up by Appendix, No. J. the duty and the merchant's charges for freight, commission, discounts, &c. The state of the market must regulate the profits and losses of the producer, and if that were to continue Sugar Hauling. as at present, the culture of the cane must necessarily be abandoned, because, as I have ANTIGUA. before observed, existing prices do not remunerate him for his outlay ; but it seems open to question, whether the recent reduction of prices be attributable so much to the admission of No. 3. foreign slave labour produce as to the general stagnation in the trade, produced by the unfortunate monetary pressure, which has for a time retarded every branch of industry and Governor HigginEarl Grey. to paralysed the commercial enterprize of the nation. I incline to the opinion that as trade and son commerce resume their wonted activity, the value of sugar will no longer remain so depreciated ; and that although the measures adopted to cheapen to consumers this commodity which has become almost a necessary of life, will prevent prices rising so high as when the supply was limited and unequal to the demand, remunerative profits, and less precarious than heretofore, may still be realized, provided that proprietors settle on their estates, or take care that in their absence they are faithfully and efficiently administered ; and that economy be rigidly adhered to in every branch of expenditure, from the opening of the ground for the reception of the plant to the closing of the sale of the manufactured staple. At the same time it must be conceded, that for obvious reasons free-grown sugar can never yield so lucrative a return as that produced by the labour of foreign slaves. It cannot, I conceive, be said that the resources of local or native labour have yet been fully developed, and therefore I entertain hopes that the present unprecedented pressure may in this respect be attended with beneficial effects. The wages of field work have within the last month fallen from 10 d. and la. to ad. and 8 d. sterling per day, and the price of task or job work has been proportionably diminished ; in some cases the latter has been entirely discontinued, which seems injudicious, as tending to check instead of to foster habits of industry, and to hinder those who are willing to devote the whole of their time to working on estates making the most of their labour, I do not hear of similar reductions yet being made in the amount of commission paid to attorneys, or in the salaries of town agents, managers, overseers, &c.; but I conclude that retrenchment under these heads is also in contemplation. The labourers generally appear to comprehend that the reduction of wages is forced upon their employers, and to acquiesce in it, under the expectation held out to them that as times mend wages will again be raised. Nor is it apprehended that by this unavoidable measure the working classes will be subjected to any serious deprivations, for as there is reason to suppose that at the higher rates, by working three days in the week, they were enabled to support themselves and families in ease and comfort, it is anticipated that at the lower rates, by giving their labour more freely and continuously, they may accomplish the same object. A remission of duties on the imported articles of food on which the lower orders chiefly subsist is also under the deliberation of the Legislature, and which it is expected will afford them considerable relief. The suddenness of this extensive reduction of wages is to be regretted, but I am led to think that the urgency of the case admitted of no delay, and that even at the diminished cost of labour, unless the price of sugar soon rises, the less lucrative estates will be thrown out of cultivation. Notwithstanding the present disastrous condition of these islands, it is satisfactory to believe that the social and moral improvement of the emancipated race is gradually progressing; but it must be remembered that in these essentially agricultural countries, their interests, as those of all other classes, are dependent, directly or indirectly, on the successful cultivation of the soil, and are identified with those of its proprietors.

Enclosure in No. 3. To the Honourable the Commons Housse of Parliament. The humble Petition of the Board of Council and House of Assembly of the Island of Antigua, Showeth, That the operation of the Act of the Imperial Parliament, the 9th 8c 10th Victoria, c. 63, involving a competition with slave-grown sugar, has been most disastrous to this island, parar lysing the energies of the planter, and reducing him to hopeless despondency. That the cultivation of Antigua has been maintained by liberal wages for limited labour, and its production has been therefore comparatively costly, while the cultivation ofthe slaveowner is maintained by unlimited compulsory labour, and his production, therefore, including the cost of the wear and tear of bis unhappy African victim, is correspondingly cheap. That the estimated cost of sugar production in this island is from 18 s. to 20 s. per cwt., while that of slave sugar is, at most, from 8 s. to 10 s. per cwt.: that no reduction of wages, nor other plantation economy, can enable the colony to sustain such a contest: that it is idle to advert to improved methods of cultivation, to agricultural and manufacturing science, for these advantages are alike accessible to the slave-owner, who, rejoicing in British patronage, and Hushed with his first year's victory, is preparing, with new capital and redoubled energy, to follow up his success, until our British colonial sugar shall be absolutely driven from the home market, and the British colonist be consigned to irretrievable bankruptcy and. ruin. 0.32. Y Y 4 That

End. in No. 3.

352 Appendix, No. 1

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

That your petititioners cannot, contemplate the possibility of a consummation so calamitous to the colonies without making an earnest appeal to the justice and consideration of Sugar Planting. Parliament, and without recording their humble protest against the measures by which their destruction will have been achieved. ANTIGUA. Your petitioners avow the abstract righteousness of the Act of Emancipation; they rejoice in the great and glorious measure as an imperishable record of national reparation in Encl. No. 3. to the slave ; they participate in the triumph, as they shared in the sacrifice by which it was effected. Twenty millions sterling were awarded by Parliament as compensation to the colonists, while property, held by a title solemnly recognised by Great Britain, was surrendered for less than one-third of its estimated value. Your petitioners would respectfully draw attention to the fact that Antigua, cordially adopting the spirit of emancipation, did not avail herself of tire forced labour provided in the shape of apprenticeship, but boldly perilled her best interests by conferring upon her people absolute and immediate freedom, and thereby won for herself distinguished commendation from Her Majesty's Government. That your petitioners regarded the hostility of the mother country to the slave trade as pledged by the Abolition Act of 1807, and religiously believed that such hostility was specially ratified and confirmed in the face of the world by the Act of 1834 giving freedom to 800,000 British slaves. That with this conviction Antigua addressed herself to the difficulties of her new position with diligence and earnestness; her legislation had regard to the altered social condition and the moral improvement of her emancipated population; agriculture was more carefully studied, and, for economising labour, implemental husbandry was more generally adopted. The colony had thus attained very considerable advancement when its energy and resources were subjected to the severest trial by the awful earthquake of 1843, which levelled its buildings with the dust, and left an abundant harvest on the ground, without works or appliances to realize it. Prostrate and stunned for a time by this overwhelming visitation of Almighty Providence, Antigua was not depressed to despair, but, bearing herself with becoming fortitude, promptly set to work to rebuild or repair her fallen and dilapidated buildings, with a view to securing the perishing crop ; capital was anew invested, and though struggling with a weight of unprecedented difficulty, aggravated by a competition for labour, perhaps inevitable where action was the salvation of property, the colony displayed an energetic elasticity, and, aided by a loan from Her Majesty's Government, was in course of restoration to her former agricultural and commercial position, while her people, enjoying the benefit of just and equal laws, and the inestimable blessing of ample opportunities for religious and general education, lived contentedly and happily, rejoicing in their ameliorated condition, and confident in their anticipations for the future, when the passing of the Sugar Duties Bill of August 1846 spread consternation and dismay among all ranks of the community. Gloomy forebodings of the unequal struggle with slave sugar thus forced upon the colonies were engendered, while the revulsion of principle manifested by the Imperial Legislature, in the change from hostility to slavery to encouragement of slavery, struck the public mind with astonishment and alarm. A measure combining, as your petitioners respectfully submit, the perpetuation of slavery and the atrocities of the slave trade, with the abandonment of 800,000 freemen, for whose emancipation twenty millions had been so recently paid, and involving, in fact, the destruction of the colonies as British exporting countries and marts for British manufactures, could not fail to create the direst apprehension. That every foreboding entertained by your petitioners of the hopelessness of the contest between free and slave sugar, and of encouragement to the slave trade, has been realized within the brief period of 12 months, the quantity of slave sugar poured into the British market having reduced the price of last year 12 s. per cwt.; thus not only sweeping away all return to the British grower, but involving him in loss or debt, or prohibiting the future cultivation of his property; while proofs are abundantly afforded by the reports from the African blockading squadron of the vast impetus given to the accursed slave trade by the increased value of the human victims destined to be sacrificed in the forced and stimulated production of Cuba and Brazil. That your petitioners respectfully submit that Antigua has been in no way instrumental to this consummation of evil and ruin; that although an integral portion of the empire, and controlled by its legislation, the colony is not represented in your Honourable House; they therefore earnestly appeal to the justice and the right feeling of Parliament for an indulgent and favourable consideration of their case. That it becomes not your petitioners to venture aught of comment upon the great question of free trade; but the colonies have been among its first victims, and crushed by its operations, they are driven as a last alternative for existence to seek that advantage and support which they are taught to expect from its principles, if carried out in all their integrity. First, then, your petitioners claim for the colony, as an integral portion of the empire, the undeniable right of sending its produce to market as freely as the same right is enjoyed by the British farmer, unincumbered by any duty whatever. They hold that they are indisputably entitled to the removal of every restriction upon the consumption of their produce. That the question of revenue, although conceded to be most important to any government, and constituting no ordinary difficulty, is matter to be dealt with by the united wisdom of Her Majesty's Cabinet, but cannot, with consistency, stand in the way of a great principle. The British farmer is untaxed; the West Indian farmer is a British subject, and should, in common justice, be untaxed also. When wheat and barley are exempt from duty, there can be no assignable reason why sugar, which is daily becoming more and more a necessary of life, should not be also exempt from duty. When the timber and

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757 and corn of Canada, and the wool of Australia, are admitted free of duty, why should not Appendix, No. 1. the sugar of Antigua be also admitted free of duty. That sugar, molasses, and syrup may, in great measure, be regarded as raw materials, Sugar Planting. and on that ground should, in conformity with recognised principle, be admitted free of ANTIGUA. duty. That the manufacturer of the raw material of the West Indian producer is surely entitled Encl. in No. 3. to the same immunity as the manufacturer of cotton and other raw materials. 2dly. Your petitioners claim as an unquestionable right that sugar and molasses be freely admitted to use in breweries and distilleries, and that colonial spirits be admitted to a full and free competition with British spirits; free trade abhorring protection. 3dly. Your petitioners submit that the carriage of the staples of the colony to market constitutes an important item in the cost of their production ; that the carriage is restricted to British shipping by the navigation laws, thereby depriving the colonist of the advantage of a cheaper foreign carriage. That your petitioners ever entertained a reverential regard for those laws, as the basis of the national glory and prosperity; but public opinion having uprooted convictions equally strong upon questions of equal gravity and importance, your petitioners are admonished of the possibility of their error in regard to the navigation laws, and struggling for existence against beggary and ruin, are constrained, however reluctantly, to enter their protest against this restriction and protection in favour of British shipping, as entirely indefensible upon the all-powerful principles of free trade. 4thly. Your petitioners submit that the withdrawal from the cultivation of the soil of great numbers of the old peasantry for other more acceptable or profitable avocations, and more particularly of the great majority of the rising generation, has occasioned a deficiency in the labour-market, which may, with advantage to all classes, be supplied by immigration. That all restrictions, therefore, which now fetter immigration, whether from the coast of Africa or elsewhere, should be abolished, and more especially with reference to terms of contract; it being essential that the British colonist should possess equal facilities with foreign growers in regard to the importation of free labourers. 5thly. Your petitioners earnestly implore that existing treaties for the suppression of the slave trade be most rigidly enforced, and that new measures be devised for the same object, if haply aught of human wisdom or ingenuity can be brought to counteract or control the stimulus given to the obnoxious trade by the free admission to the British market of sugar stained with the crimes of rapine and bloodshed. That your petitioners, acquainted with the prostrate condition of this colony, and foreseeing its extinction for all profitable purposes, either as an exporting or importing possession of the Crown, unless relief be speedily afforded, would have felt themselves in duty bound to lay their case before your Honourable House, but by the unanimous voice of the colony, expressed in petitions to the Legislature from the various parishes of the island, your petitioners are imperatively enjoined to make an earnest and animated appeal to Parliament. Your petitioners therefore humbly but fervently implore immediate reprieve and ultimate relief from the bankruptcy and ruin which threaten this ever loyal, and once comparatively happy and prosperous colony. May it therefore please your Honourable House to take into consideration the foregoing statements, and to grant to your petitioners all, or such of the before-mentioned remedial measures as your Honourable House may see fit, And your petitioners,'as in duty bound, will ever pray.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 4.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 106.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Higginson.

Sir, Downing-street, 16 February 1848. I HAVE received your despatch, Antigua, No. 85, of the 20 December, enclosing a copy of a petition which bad been addressed to the House of Commons by the Council and Assemby of Antigua. The Council and Assembly will, no doubt, feel every assurance that the House of Commons, as well as Her Majesty's Government, are deeply sensible of the distressing circumstances of the present crisis of West India affairs, and earnestly desirous to give every aid in their power towards the restoration of prosperity. It has been exceedingly satisfactory to myself, and to Her Majesty's Government, to receive at so opportune a moment such a judicious and comprehensive survey of the causes and circumstances of West Indian distress as that which your despatch presented. I have, &c. (signed) Grey.

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â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 1. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 24.) COPY

No. 1. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

King's House, 25 March 1847. (Received 21 April 1847.) My Lord, I HAVE the honour to lay before your Lordship a memorial addressed to Her Majesty The Queen, by the inhabitants of the parish of St. Andrew, in this island. It is, rather out of date, inasmuch us some of the measures which it prays for have been adopted; and your Lordship's recent answers to the petition of the Assembly and to the memorials of some other parishes are applicable also to this one. The language of it, however, is respectful, and the objects and purport of it not unreasonable, and the deputation by whom it was put into my hands consisted of some highly respectable gentlemen. I am happy to be able to state that your Lordship's despatch in answer to the petition of the Assembly produced a general and most favourable impression, and I have heard it said by more than one of the persons who took a principal part in framing that petition, that no communication from the Home Government had ever before been received of a tenor so gratifying and conciliatory. The Assembly is expected to finish the business which is before it on this day week, and there is a general wish that the Members should not be obliged to attend again after Easter. The ordinary revenue bills, I believe, will be passed : and the only important measures of which I am aware are likely to be the abolition, from the 1st of August next, of the differential duties levied under the Colonial Customs' or British Possessions' Act of the Imperial Parliament, and some modifications of the import duties connected with thai measure. I have, &c. (signed) Charles Edward Grey.

Enclosure in No. 1. COPY

End. in No. 1.

of MEMORIAL from the Inhabitants of St. Andrew. TO The

QUEEN'S

most Excellent

MAJESTY.

Your Majesty's dutiful and loyal Subjects, the Inhabitants of the Parish of St. Andrew, in the Island of Jamaica, "beg leave to approach Your Majesty with this our Memorial, and to supplicate Your Majesty's gracious interference in our behalf, in respect of the circumstances herein set forth. Your Memorialists humbly submit:

WE,

THAT it would be for the benefit of Your Majesty's subjects engaged in the growth and manufacture of sugar and coffee in this island, and also of Your Majesty's subjects in the United Kingdom, that the price of sugar should be reduced, and that article placed within the reach of large numbers who do not now consume it, and its consumption increased among those to whom it is at present a luxury and not a necessary of life, by a considerable reduction of the existing duty upon it. That the duty on coffee is oppressively high, and it is levied indiscriminately, thus subjecting the middling and inferior qualities to the payment of the same tax as the best. By a reduction of the duty, and the substitution of the ad valorem for the present mode, the abandonment of the plantations producing the middling and inferior qualities may be prevented, and the consumption of the article, and also of sugar increased, to say nothing of the advantages, in a moral point of view, to result from a more general and extended use of these articles by the poorer classes of the British community. That called upon as the sugar growers are to compete with those of foreign countries in the British markets, they feel that they require, and are entitled to claim at the hands of Your Majesty's Ministers, the admission upon the most favourable terms, of their produce into the breweries and distilleries of the mother country. That the imposition of a higher rate of duty on colonial than on British spirits is unjust, inasmuch as the cost of transport to, and the charges payable in Great Britain on the former are of themselves a protection, by no means insignificant or trifling to the British distiller, with whom your memorialists claim to be placed upon a perfect footing of equality. That it would be of advantage to your memorialists and the British public, if cassavameal or cakes, arrow-root, ginger, pimento, and fruit preserved with sugar, were permitted to be imported into the mother country free of duty. That as all past experience proves that a reduction in the duties on the staples of this island, sufficient to affect the price to the consumer, has had the effect of increasing the consumption and also the revenue derivable therefrom, your memorialists hope no difficulties will stand in the way of an immediate reduction of the duties now sought. That

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That the continuance of the African slave trade by the Spaniards and Brazilians, contrary Appendix, No. 1 to the treaties entered into for its suppression, call for the intervention of Your Majesty's Government, and would seem to demand that more effectual and stringent measures should Sugar Planting. be resorted to than have been hitherto for that purpose. JAMAICA. That whilst the British farmer will continue to enjoy protection after the expiry of the existing Corn Law, to the extent of the freight, insurance, and dock dues, paid by his foreign rival, the British colonial farmer will be left, at the expiry of the Sugar Duty Bill, without End. in No. 1. any such means of successful competition with even slave-holding countries ; your memorialists therefore submit, that in strict justice, they are entitled to claim the imposition and the continuance, as against all foreigners, of a distinctive duty, equal to the cost of transporting their produce from the colony to the mother country. That your memorialists, although called upon before they have recovered from the effects of the transition from slavery to freedom, to enter into competition with parties owning labourers whom they can coerce to exertion at all times, and whose services are at command whenever, and at the periods when most required, are willing patiently to submit to the decision of Parliament, and zealously to exert themselves in order to ensure success in the coming struggle; they feel, however, that they require over and above the reduction and abandonment of duties already alluded to, and the other matters prayed for, all the assistance to be derived from free trade with the world; an extensive system of African immigration and pecuniary assistance, in the shape of loans, for the drainage and improvement of their lands; and they pray that Your Majesty will be pleased to approve of those measures having these objects in view, which Ministers may deem it necessary to recommend for the approval and sanction of Parliament. On behalf of the Meeting, (signed) Joseph Gordon, Chairman.

— No. 2.— (No. 47.) No. 2. COPY of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Honourable Earl Grey to Sir C. E. Grey. Sir C. E. Grey, Sir, Downing-street, 24 April 1847. I HAVE had the honour to receive your despatch of the 25th March, No. 24, transmitting for presentation to Her Majesty a petition from the inhabitants of the parish of St. Andrew, in Jamaica, praying, among other measures, for a reduction of the duties imposed upon the introduction into this country of sugar, coffee, and certain other articles, the produce of that island. I have to instruct you to acquaint the memorialists that I have laid their petition before The Queen, by whom it has been received very graciously. I have already availed myself of more than one opportunity of conveying to the inhabitants of Jamaica the expression of the interest taken by Her Majesty in their welfare, and on these occasions I have explained, as fully as was in my power, the nature of the measures by which Her Majesty's Government are endeavouring to promote it. I have, &c. (signed) Grey. — No. 3. —

(No. 92.) EXTRACT

of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey. King's House, Jamaica, 21 September 1847. (Received 22 October 1847.)

I THINK it my duty to mention that the low price to which sugar has recently fallen in the London market without any corresponding reduction of duty, really threatens with ruin many of the planters who have latterly been struggling hard to keep their heads above water; and that I perceive indications of a movement within the island to support, in the next Session of the Imperial Parliament, the party which asserts the principle of protection. It is not unlikely that, with this object in view, there may be an effort of the planters' party in the House of Assembly here to delay the annual revenue bills, and the principal business of the Session of the Island Legislature until after Christmas. My utmost efforts and most studious endeavours will be employed to persuade them to the most temperate and salutary course of action, but I cannot deny that, whilst corn and cotton are imported into the United Kingdom duty free, the duty of 14s. on the hundred weight of muscovado sugar, which amounts to 86 per cent, on the Kingston price, and which, having been about 42 per cent, on the London price when the reduction of duty took place in March 1845, is now about 58 per cent, upon the latest London price, as given in the Gazette, is a very heavy toll to be paid by British consumers for admission into the home market; nor that there is a sincere apprehension amongst the persons most thoroughly acquainted with the subject, that with the present London prices of West India sugar and the present rate of duties, it will be impossible to carry on here, without loss and ruin, the cultivation of sugar for exportation. I have, &c. (signed) Charles Edward Grey. 0.32. z z 2

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356 Appendix, No. 1. Sugar Planting.

— No. 4. — (No. 98.) COPY

JAMAICA.

NO. 4.

Earl Grey to Sir C. E. Grey.

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Honourable Sir Ci E. Grey.

Sir, Downing-street, 30 October 1847. I HAVE received your despatch of the 21st September, No. 92, and with reference to your observations upon the low price to which sugar has fallen in the London market, however deeply I may lament the difficulties with which the planters have to struggle, I must express, speaking in their own interest, my hope that they will not indulge in the visionary expectation that their former protection can possibly be re-established. Such an expectation could only lead to disappointment, and the effect in the meantime would be to abate those efforts which afford the only real prospect of conducting the cultivation of sugar with success. I cannot concur in the statement that the duty paid in this country upon sugar is a burthen upon the colonists. It is a tax on the consumer, and on the consumer only; and it is important that this truth, which has long been recognized by practical as well as scientific men in this country, should be perceived in Jamaica. I have, &c. (signed)

Grey.

— No. 5.No. 5. Earl Grey to Sir C. E. Grey.

(No. 99.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey.

Sir, Downing-street, 30 October 1847. I TRANSMIT to you herewith a copy of a memorial from proprietors, merchants, and others, connected with the Island of Jamaica, in which they represent the difficulties under which they labour, and apply for assistance to be enabled to surmount them. The topics brought before Her Majesty's Government in this memorial are, as you will perceive, the same which have been for some time past under their constant consideration. Rut the progress of events gives them every day an increasing interest and importance. Long before the enactment of the Act for the ultimate repeal of' the discriminating duties on foreign sugar, it had become manifest, that in the existing state of opinion in this country, founded as it was in reason and on facts, if the cultivation of sugar by free labour could not be sustained on principles of free trade, it could not be sustained at all. So long as these principles were not brought into operation, it was obvious that the basis on which this commerce and cultivation rested was hollow and unsound; and that all calculations connected with it must proceed upon very doubtful and precarious data. It was essential, therefore, to the welfare of all parties to commence, without delay, the experiment of bring* ing the principles of free trade, by progressive steps, into full activity, and maintaining the cultivation of sugar with a reduction and early extinction of the discriminating duties. This experiment, being indispensably necessary, was to be undertaken in a spirit of hope and confidence; and in that spirit I trust it will still be carried on. But at the same time there is no application of the principles of free trade which was entitled to more anxious attention on the part of Her Majesty's Government, with a view to promote its success, because of all merely commercial measures, it is that which involves the most momentous consequences, moral and political, as well as commercial. With the maintenance of the colonial agriculture and exports is bound up the moral and industrial well-being, the education, enlightenment, and good government of the negro race in the British Colonies; and along with that, the abatement and ultimate extermination of the slave trade and of slavery throughout the world. It was with a full sense of the importance of the interests depending, and of the critical nature of the experiment, that I applied myself to the subject when I assumed the seals of this office; and then, as now, the want of an adequate supply of labour was the difficulty most dwelt upon by the planters and merchants, and ibis was the evil which it was obviously most essential to obviate. For the early, though not certainly the immediate mitigation of this evil, I looked to the education and industrial training of the negroes; and I have pressed this subject repeatedly and most anxiously on the attention of the Assemblies. For a more direct alleviation, I placed great reliance upon the introduction of improved methods and implements of agriculture, and processes of manufacture ; and I have rejoiced to receive, from time to time, reports of improvements of this nature being in successful progress. But the supply of labour by immigration was the resource from which it was conceived that the assistance of Her Majesty's Government might be chiefly made available, and I lost no time in considering by what means this assistance might best be given. The expense of the transport of Coolies from British India was such as to excite doubts on the part of the Jamaica Assembly

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Assembly as to the expediency of carrying that immigration forward, and I saw much Appendix, No- ' reason to apprehend that these doubts were well founded, and that this immigration could not be conducted on any terms which would render it adequately remunerative. It Sugar Plantingremained to establish, if possible, an extended emigration from the parts of Africa where JAMAICAslavery does not prevail, and whence an intelligent and serviceable class of emigrants might be procured. After every practicable inquiry had been made in this country"as to No. 5. the prospect of succeeding in such an attempt, Her Majesty's steam ship " Growler" fair was despatched to the Kroo Coast for emigrants; and although she has been for the Earl Grey to Grey. moment diverted from the prosecution of that particular service, by the occurrence of C. E. an opportunity of conveying a large number of liberated Africans to the West Indies, the intelligence which has been received by no means abates the hopes which have been entertained, and she has gone back to Africa with the additional advantage of conveying thither, as delegates from British Guiana and Trinidad, between 100 and 200 Kroornen and other Africans. These persons have been exceedingly prosperous in British Guiana, and they return to their country, according to a despatch from Governor Light, of No. 174; 30 Auwhich a copy is annexed, with large sums of money, the earnings of their labour in gust. the West Indies, 29 of them having deposited in the hands of the captain of the " Growler" no less a sum than 571 L 15 s. 10 d. lam not, therefore, without hope that the succeeding operations of the " Growler," may realize the prospects of emigrants being obtained from the Kroo Coast in large numbers, and Her Majesty's Government are prepared to take prompt measures for conveying them to the West Indies, with the least outlay which may be found to be compatible with the proper conduct of the service. It is indispensable that that outlay should be defrayed by the colonies to which the emigrants are taken, nor is it possible for me, especially in the present state of the resources of this country, and having regard also to the extraordinary demands made upon them from the various exigencies ot the time, to hold out any expectation that Her Majesty's Government can recommend to Parliament, that either a grant of money or a loan should be made by this country to the West India colonies for the advancement of these objects; but any number of merchant vessels will be employed which it is found possible to employ with advantage, and the expenses of which the colonies may be prepared to provide for. I trust, that in order to reduce the cost of this immigration, arrangements may be devised by which the ordinary class of merchant vessels may be employed in conducting it under regulations which shall fulfil the essential condition of affording an absolute and indisputable security against any immigrants being taken without their free consent, obtained by fair and well-founded statements. Her Majesty's Government cannot for a moment admit the validity of the arguments in favour of Africans being rescued from slavery by purchase, in order that they may be removed to a state of freedom. Such a proceeding would be sure to make more slaves than it redeemed, and to make them in the worst way, by furnishing, like the slave trade itself, a provocative to the system of barbarous outrage and warfare by which that traffic is fed. It is indispensable, in order to guard against abuses of this nature, that the service should be conducted under the regulations of the Government, and on those parts only of the African coast where slavery and the slave trade are found not to prevail. At present, however, there is nothing to show that the employment of ships of war will be necessary, or that any cost of superintendence need be incurred beyond that of a Government agency on board the vessel and on the coast. Such a superintendence is in fact as necessary to the success of the undertaking as it is essential to the character of this country, for any occurrence of abuses would inevitably put an end to the operations. With regard to the means by which the colonies might be enabled to meet the cost,â&#x20AC;&#x201D; when I first came to the consideration of this subject, the wisdom of the Assembly of Jamaica had already furnished in the clause of their Immigration Act imposing stamp duties on engagements for immigrant labour, an example of legislation which I did not fail to adopt and recommend- to other colonies. I added, as you are aware, and I still recommend to the attention of the Legislature of Jamaica, a suggestion for the imposition of a monthly tax on immigrants introduced at the public expense, and not under a stamped engagement to labour. This may not be required in the case of the Coolie immigrants, whose habits and comparative isolation in the community throw them upon engagements with the planters as a necessary resource ; but I should fear that without it the African immigrants introduced at the expense of the colony in order that they may hire themselves to work, will not always be found to fulfil that expectation and repay the cost of their passage. Such are the measures which I have hitherto adopted and recommended to meet the deficiency in the supply of labour; and the steps which were necessary to give effect to these measures, so far as they depended upon Her Majesty's Government, have been taken, I trust, with the least possible delay, and with all the care requisite to give them a fair prospect of success. And there is no other proper and practicable measure calculated to advance the objects in which we should not most gladly co-operate with the Legislature of Jamaica to the utmost extent of the means at our disposal. If the measures now in contemplation, or any others which may be devised for the introduction of immigrants, should have an extensive success, and if neither that success nor the anticipation of it bo allowed to interfere with the diligent pursuit of every possible improvement in agricultural and manufacturing processes, and still less with the education and industrial training of the negroes, I trust there is good reason to hope, not only that the present difficulties of the West Indian interest may prove to be temporary, but that when ' 0.32. z z3 they

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they shall have passed away, any measure of prosperity which may be attained will be steady and assured in its progress, and not subject to that constant recurrence of revulsions and vicissitudes which was the characteristic of West Indian agriculture and commerce in former times. The statements made to me by the gentlemen who waited upon me with the present memorial were strongly corroborative of this hope. They assured me that they had no reason to complain of want of industry on the part of the labouring population. The evil was not that they were wanting in industry, but that they were too few in numbers for the many employments of industry to which a state of freedom had given birth, independently of those in which the fixed capital of the sugar planter is invested, and that such is the real state of the case is shown by the large increase of imports which has accompanied the decline of exports since the period of emancipation. Nor did these gentlemen complain of the rate of wages as exorbitant. On the contrary, they stated that they would be content to pay the present wages, if a sufficiency of labourers at those wages could be obtained with certainty and regularity. Under these circumstances, it is evident that no injury can arise to the native labourers of Jamaica by the introduction of foreign labourers; on the contrary, it is most important to the natives that this foreign aid should be given, deeply interested as they are in the general prosperity of the island and the support of the educated classes and those of European extraction, on whom, for a long time to come, the civil institutions and the administration of the laws must mainly rest. And it is worthy of remark, that in some colonies at least the negroes themselves have evinced no repugnance whatever to the introduction of immigrant labourers, such as might, be expected in countries where there is a competition for employment; but that in many places the strangers have been very hospitably received by the negroes, and treated with a marked cordiality. If this reception and the advantages they meet with shall induce the immigrants to settle finally in the West Indies, there can be no doubt that their gain will be great in doing so, But if they shall prefer to return to Africa with the property they may have accumulated, there will be a fairer prospect than lias even yet been opened, of at length introducing into that country the arts and habits of civilized life; whilst the success of free labour in the West Indies will co-operate with these civilizing influences in extinguishing the slave trade, and it will no longer be the interest of nations claiming to be civilized,to promote the worst barbarities of those on whom the advantages of Christianity have not yet been conferred. I stated to the deputation which waited upon me, some of the views which I have here developed, and at their instance I have thus communicated them to you; and as it appeared to them that some advantage might be derived from making them known to the Assembly of Jamaica, I have to request that you will submit to that body a copy of this despatch. I have, &c. (signed)

Grey.

Enclosure in No. 5. Encl. in No. 5.

To the Right Honourable Earl Grey, Secretary of State for the Colonies. The humble Memorial of the Proprietors, Merchants and Others connected with the Island of Jamaica, Showeth, your memorialists have been cultivating their estates since the termination of the apprenticeship system at a great annual loss, under the full conviction that no alteration would be made in the duties for admitting slave-grown sugar, until, by the introduction of an abundant supply of free labour, as well from Africa as from other parts of the world, they would be enabled to compete on more equal terms with foreign slave colonies. That the alteration ot duties effected last year, and the admission of slave-grown sugar into the British market, have had the effect of lowering the price of British plantation sugar at least 30 per cent., and that unless immediate and effectual assistance is afforded, it will be impossible for your memorialists to continue the cultivation of their estates, without sustaining a loss that must entail certain ruin upon all parties concerned. That, anxious to comply with the wishes of Her Majesty's Governmentâ&#x20AC;&#x201D;constantly urged upon the attention of the Legislature of Jamaicaâ&#x20AC;&#x201D;to make successful that great change in the social system in which the whole empire was said to take so deep an interest, new laws were enacted and expensive institutions established ; an effective police was organized ; the judicial, ecclesiastical, and educational establishments were modified and enlarged ; liberal provision was made for prisons, penitentiaries and sanatory departments, making the public and parochial burthens to exceed an annual average of 400,000 /., nearly equal in amount to the value of one-third of the whole exports of the colony. T hat the export of sugar from Jamaica in the year ... 122,000 hogsheads. 1820 was ..... 1844 only 34,440 ,, 1845 increased to 47,920 â&#x20AC;&#x17E; THAT

That

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That with a plentiful supply of African labour combined with the free use of agricultural Appendix, No. 1. implements, and the improved modes of cultivation now adopted, together with the introduction of modern machinery, your memorialists feel confident that the annual returns may Sugar Planting. be made to equal if not to exceed the exports of former years, and they urgently call your JAMAICA. Lordship's attention to the fact, that the consumption of all kinds of manufactured goods by a free population, exceeds in a fourfold degree the consumption of a sla.ve population, as a reference to the returns of imports into the West India colonies before and since the End. in No. 5. abolition of slavery will abundantly prove; they contend, therefore, that it is no less the interest than the duty of the mother country to foster and encourage those colonies, so dependent upon her for almost every article of manufacture. Your memorialists deem it unnecessary to adduce any arguments to show the necessity that exists for immigration on an extensive scale, as they presume your Lordship is satisfied, from the concurrent testimony of all parties, that such is the fact. They will merely instance the small island of Barbados (not equal in size to some of the parishes of Jamaica), with a population of 133,000 people, exporting 30,000 hogsheads of sugar, whereas Jamaica, which contains an area of 2,110,000 acres, fully equal in fertility to Barbados, with a population of 400,000 people, produces under 50,000 hogsheads of sugar. Your memorialists, therefore, most earnestly call upon Her Majesty's Government to remove all restrictions now existing in reference to emigration from the coast of Africa, and to afford every facility for the importation of an abundant supply of labourers into Jamaica, under such regulations as will ensure to the immigrants fair remuneration for their labour, and a lull participation in the rights of free men. That in consequence of the heavy losses sustained by the proprietary body of Jamaica, your memorialists respectfully solicit Her Majesty's Government to afford them pecuniary aid to carry out an adequate system of immigration, by means of a loan to be secured on the revenue of the island, which they feel confident will be guaranteed by the Legislature, whenever an intimation is given that the Government is favourably disposed towards this application. Your memorialists feel it unnecessary to urge upon your Lordship's attention the grievances which they in common with the other West India colonies labour under, as a statement will be brought under review of Her Majesty's Government by the committee of the general body of West India merchants and planters, and they trust that another session will not be allowed to pass without relief being afforded by an alteration and revision of the fiscal regulations affecting sugar and rum. In conclusion, your memorialists are reluctantly compelled to state, that in the event of effectual and immediate assistance not being granted to them, they shall have no alternative but to abandon the cultivation of their estates, and, with this abandonment, the means of raising taxes to uphold those institutions which the altered state of society in Jamaica has rendered necessary must also cease, and thus involve the destruction of those hopes entertained of the progressive improvement of the lately enfranchised slave, now happily admitted to share in the blessings of freedom, and the enjoyment of civilized life. (43 Signatures.)

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 6. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 105.) COPY

Sir,

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey. Downing-street, 16 November 1847.

SINCE I addressed to you my despatch, No. 99, of 30th ultimo, referring to the want of labourers to carry on the cultivation of sugar in Jamaica, the further inquiries which I have made have satisfied me that it is in the power of Her Majesty's Government at once to adopt, upon a limited scale, measures for the introduction of labourers from the coast of Africa, into Jamaica. I have ascertained that the amount of bounty provided by the law now in force would be considered by shipowners in this country to afford a sufficient remuneration to them for the conveyance of labourers from Africa to the West Indies, and that the only difficulty in the way of entering into contracts for this purpose, arises from the doubt which exists, whether, on arriving on the coast of Africa, any emigrants could be obtained. It appears, however, that even this difficulty might he surmounted, by guaranteeing to the owners of ships proceeding to Africa in search of emigrants, that in the event of their being unsuccessful, some moderate payment should he made for the expense incurred in fitting out ships for this service, and for proceeding by this indirect course to the West Indies. Under these circumstances, therefore, in order to obviate all delay that can be avoided, Her Majesty's Government are prepared to endeavour at once to take up two or three ships to proceed to Africa for emigrants to be conveyed to Jamaica; giving to the owners the necessary assurance that they shall receive such a moderate payment as may be agreed upon in the event of no emigrants being found. z z 4 0.32. I am

No. 6. Earl Grey to Sir C. E. Grey.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

360

Appendix, No. 1 Sugar Planting JAMAICA.

No. 6. Ear! Grey to Sir C. E. Grey.

I am induced by the reports received of the experiment made by Her Majesty's ship " Growler," as well as by the results of the visit made to the Kroo Coast by the " Prince Regent," to entertain the expectation that either at Sierra Leone or on the Kroo Coast, emigrants may be procured ; but if not, it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government, instead of applying to the Assembly of Jamaica to make good the expense which will be thus incurred, to recommend to Parliament to provide the means of doing so; and to make provision also for the cost of sending a naval officer on board each of the ships so engaged, in order to superintend the performance of the service, and to guard against the possibility of abuse. I trust that the Legislature of Jamaica will see in these measures a proof of the sincere desire of Her Majesty's Government to afford the utmost relief in their power to the cultivation of sugar in the British colonies. Although the number of vessels to be engaged will be very small in the first instance, nevertheless, if success should attend this experiment, there will be as many engaged hereafter as it may appear likely that the number of emigrants to be procured will suffice to fill, and the operation of the measure will be extended to all those colonies which may provide funds sufficient for the payment of the bounties required to remunerate the shipowners for the conveyance of emigrants from Africa. I

have, &c.

(signed)

Grey.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 7. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 106.) No. 7.

Sir C E. Grey to Earl Grey.

COPY

of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

King's House, Jamaica, 6 November 11147. (Received 8 December 1847.) My Lord, I HAVE now the honour to lay before your Lordship a printed copy of the votes of tire House, of Assembly of this island, from the 19th of October to the 3d of November, both days included. In these papers there will be found the Governor's speech at the opening of the Session, under the date of the 19th October, and the address of the House, and my reply, under the date of the 22d October. Copies also are enclosed of the address of the Legislative Council, and of my reply. It will perhaps be thought that I said more than was necessary on this occasion; that I have admitted too broadly, and to an inconvenient extent, the claims of the planters to relief; and that I have inculcated measures of policy, and especially of finance, which I am not entitled to suppose Her Majesty's Government would recommend. But the state of public feeling, and the clamour that was rising from all parts of the West Indies, made me think it desirable that by an early call of the House I should prevail on the Members of the Legislature to engage themselves in the business of the Session before they should become pledged by resolutions at parochial meetings to courses incompatible with the discharge of their legislative functions. A merely formal address, consisting only of empty civilities or common-place recommendations, would have been received with disgust and impatience, and would have been a vacuum into which all the better feeling of the moment would have outpoured itself in reply. Deeming it right therefore to speak to the purpose, the only safe course was to speak plainly, and with the most perfect truth and entire sincerity, for the accomplishment of which I require to be allowed a certain degree of fulness and perhaps prolixity. There is not a word of what I said which was not meant to express my real sentiment, and I endeavoured to impress upon those to whom I spoke that it was my own, so as to preclude all notion of Her Majesty's Government being in any way committed. I trust at the same time that I made no recommendation nor admission which Her Majesty's Government, though they may not wholly agree with me, will have any reason to condemn, nor from which your Lordship can experience any inconvenience. The progress of the Session has hitherto been much more favourable than had been anticipated ; the tone of the discussions has for the most part been temperate, and more than the ordinary proportion of business has been done. The Import Duties' Bill has passed both the Assembly and Council, with few and not very important alterations. The Rum Duty Bill is in committee, and probably will be passed in the ensuing week. The third of the resolutions, which will be found under the date of the 20th October, purports to restrain the House in this Session from the consideration of any new measure involving the expenditure of public money. I do not clearly understand, nor do I think that it is generally agreed in the House, where the line is to be drawn, so as to distinguish what is meant by a new measure; but I am told that it will not preclude an augmentation of the police force, nor fresh grants for purposes identical or closely similar to those for which grants have been made before, such as education, the penitentiary, a Board of works, &c. At this moment some dissatisfaction approaching to irritation has supervened, in consequence of the intention of Her Majesty's Government to disallow the Act of last Session providing for the transfer of certain parochial charges to the general revenue. Your Lordship's despatch to that effect was communicated to the House by message three or four days ago, and it was referred to a select committee, whose report, I understand, is likely to be couched in strong terms. Some difficulties, which it is alleged must arise out of the disallowance,

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disallowance, are stated in the Kingston newspaper of this morning, which is called the Morning Journal, and edited by Messrs. Jordon and Osborn, two of the Members. I shall deal with these as I best can, and according to the course that may be taken by the House, not assenting to the establishment of the measure of which your Lordship has disapproved, but yielding any point of mere temporary accommodation. I have, &c. (signed) Charles Edward Grey.

Enclosure 1, in No. 7. EXTRACT from the VOTE of the

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

of Jamaica,

October

1847.

Gentlemen of the Council, Mr. Speaker, and Gentlemen of the Assembly, You have been assembled as early as an observance of usage and attention to your own convenience would permit, chiefly because it seemed to be desirable that the public feeling, winch has naturally resulted from fresh disappointments as to the stale of the sugar market after so many years of difficulty, should take their expression from the temperate discussions of the colonial Legislature, seeing that this is at once the proper organ for providing whatever relief may be drawn from the internal resources of the island, and for making such representations as may be calculated to obtain any remedies, which can be supplied only by the power and the will of the Imperial Parliament. I have wished also for the opportunity, which a Governor has usually taken on the opening of the first Session after his assumption of office, to mark the broad outline of policy which he believes will be beneficial to the colony. May I add, without, offence, that your last Session was in some degree a hurried and disturbed one, and that it left some matters unprovided for and others less carefully adjusted than, I am sanguine in my hope, that you will leave them, after approaching them, as you do now, with greater leisure. In proportion to the weight of circumstances which you feel to be pressing on you, your deliberations ought to be grave; your resolutions such as will bear the criterion of public opinion in other places than Jamaica; and such as you may be sure will obtain for you, everywhere, the support of the wise and good. Above all, it is to be desired that your aims should be attainable,â&#x20AC;&#x201D;something which you can seriously expect to realize; and that no part of your time and efforts should be wasted in vain references to what is past and gone beyond recall; nor in the equally vain endeavour to change the general settled policy of the empire. Preludes, which indicate unreasonable purposes, raise obstructions in the path of those who indulge in them; and no one is blamed for closing a conference with him, who asks only what it is plainly impossible to grant. But I have seen nothing which makes me fear the existence of a disposition, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, to turn a deaf ear to any who address them in the language of reason, or to fix themselves beforehand in a rigid posture of denial against temperate claims. An attempt to re-establish the principle of protection, or to renew generally the practice of making the prices of commodities artificially high to the British people, by the exclusion of foreign produce from their markets, I most sincerely believe would be an utterly hopeless effort; and several legislative measures have now passed into laws, all founded on the opposite principle, which are so connected with each other, that it seems to be an equally vain expectation that any one of them could be repealed without repealing the others. Prohibitory duties could not be re-imposed upon foreign sugars without imposing them also on foreign com. The buttle of the corn laws must be fought over again in the United Kingdom, and gained by the party who lost it, before you could succeed in having your sugar protected by a prohibition of foreign sugar. But if I have rightly comprehended the policy on which the system of free trade is founded, and which has led to the open abandonment of protective systems, the planters of Jamaica have no reason to fear that they are permanently condemned to remain exactly in the same commercial relations in which they now stand to the mother country. The great and fundamental changes of commercial policy, which have recently taken place, seem to involve minor changes, and to make it impossible that some further revisions of the import duties of the United Kingdom should not be permitted, for the purpose of making adjustment that will give fair play to all parties. Without such examination, duties might, in some instances, remain so high as to be destructive, not only of the interests of planters, but equally so of the trade and revenue of the United Kingdom ; and no effort, as it seems to me, can be more legitimate than that Jamaica should use its best endeavours to have justice done to itself, in the progress of the inquiries that are sure to be made; nor do I hesitate to declare, that to the extent I am about to explain, you have, in my opinion, a strong and sound case to bring forward. On the 20th of August 1844 the declared average price of West India muscovado sugar, exclusive of the import duty, was 1 l. 12s. 4 1/2 d., and in March 1845, when the first distinct measures for the introduction of foreign sugar were carried by the minister of that day, the duty on colonial muscovado was reduced from 11. 4s. to I t's, the cwt., and sugar from foreign 0.32. 3 A

Encl.

in No.

362

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT PROM THE

foreign countries, in which slavery did not exist, was admitted at a duty of 1 I. 3 s. 4 d., instead of the former prohibitory duty. In August 1846, the distinction between foreign sugar, the produce of slave labour, and foreign sugar, the produce of free labour, was done Sugar Planting. away with, and all foreign sugar was admitted at a duty, for the ensuing 10 months, of JAMAICA. 11. 1 s., which, moreover, is gradually to decrease, until in 1851 foreign sugar and colonial sugar are to be admitted at the same rate of duty; but when this further encouragement Encl. 1, in No. 7. was given to the importation of foreign sugar, permission was given for the use of sugar in the British distilleries, which had previously been excluded from them, and changes were made in the duties on rum, in favour of the colonial distiller, and for the purpose of putting him on an equal footing of advantage with the British distiller. Nothing can be more certain than that these reductions of duty on colonial sugar in 1845, and on colonial rum in 1846, were intended to operate in the way of compensation for the fall in the price of sugar, expected to be produced by the competition of foreigners, and that the permission for the use of sugar in the distilleries was meant, in some degree, to moderate that fall. I can scarcely imagine indeed that it entered into the plans of the Government at either epoch to leave the situation of the British sugar planter permanently worse than it had already become, and for that reason I incline strongly to the supposition that it was hoped these compensations would be complete equivalents. But what has been the result? The average price of August 1844, exclusive of duty, namely, 1 /. 12 s. d., with the addition of 1 /. 4 s. duty, constituted a London market-price of 2 I. 16 s. 4 1/2 d.; but the average price of similar sugar, exclusive of duty, on the 24th of last August, was only 1 /. 5s. 5| d., which, with the reduced duty of 14 s., gives a London market-price of only 1 I. 19 s. 5 1/2 d., so that whilst there has been a reduction of 10 s. duty on West Indian muscovado sugar, it has sustained a fall of price in the English market of 16 s. 11 d. the cwt., or, setting aside the duty, of more than 6 /. sterling per ton. Against the apparent and grievous loss, however, which would be consequent upon such and so sudden a fall, the Jamaica proprietor and planter ought to set off the advantage lie derives from the reduction in the duties of rum; and a part of the apparent fall in price ought, no doubt, to be rather called a rise in the exchangeable value of cash, and to be attributed to the extraordinary pressure for money in London, which, it may be hoped, will not be of permanent duration. But to whatever extent the real fall of price has exceeded the aggregate value of the reduction of duties on sugar and rum, I freely declare my opinion that you have a strong claim to relief by a further reduction of duty, if the finances of England can sustain it. As far as I am capable of forming a judgment, such relief would indirectly be advantageous even to the English revenue, derivable from the import of sugar, and, on the other hand, would be effectual for the purpose of at least neutralizing the effects of competition, and of placing the sugar planter here in as good a position as that in which he stood three years ago. I wish, with all my heart, you could be placed in a much better one, but we must look to what is practicable ; and, after a careful and painstaking examination of the circumstances in which you stand, and taking these in connexion with the considerations of awful importance which are implicated with the finances of the United Kingdom, on which it is not too much to say that the peace and salvation of the world depends, I cannot at present extend my hopes for your obtaining direct relief from the Imperial Parliament beyond the limit I have pointed out. I have indeed no instructions or authority from Her Majesty's Government on which I am entitled to hold out an expectation even of that relief, nor can I pretend to be so well acquainted with the finances of the United Kingdom as to be capable of forming a confident judgment whether any further reduction of duties on sugar may be conceded, but some indications of large and unexpected increases in the British revenue encourage a not unreasonable hope that such may possibly be the case; and I am, at all events, convinced that here is the strong point of your case, and that if you are to be relieved at all, it is in this way, and on the grounds which I have stated, that there is the greatest likelihood of its being done. Of obtaining any early and effectual supply of additional labour, by means of immigration, and to such an extent as to work any general improvement in the state of the island, I cannot honestly say that I entertain much expectation. All persons here, I believe, are convinced that the importation of Coolies from the East Indies is too costly, and that the numbers of these people, whom you could afford to bring from the other side of the globe, must be too few to be efficient instruments in elevating Jamaica to a new prosperity. From Africa I trust that you may receive some supply, even before the end of this year; but I know that, at present, it can only be to a very limited extent, though I hope the numbers may gradually increase ; and my confidence of obtaining in the end some greater and more effectual assistance from that quarter, is strong and undiminished. I feel sure that the slave trade cannot last; condemned and prohibited by the treaties of all the most powerful states in the world, it is incredible that they should much longer abstain from combining sincerely in methods calculated to put an end to so great a reproach, scandal, and crime. It is shameful that, after such treaties, it should have continued so long; but it would be more shameful for foreign states either to acknowledge that they do not wish their treaties to take effect, or to pretend that it is beyond the power of the whole civilized world to give them effect. The introduction and establishment, by united Christendom, of peace, order, law, a just and free commerce, and a pure religion, on the coast of Africa, would abate this enormous atrocity, and would gradually bring that teeming population into a condition to estimate the advantages within their reach ; and it would then rest only with the planters of each colony respectively, on this side of the Atlantic, by improving the condition of the labouring class, and by making it a thoroughly happy one, to attract in swarms to their shores Appendix, No. 1.

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shores a people of labourers who have always been regarded as the most effective, and best adapted for the agriculture of the Antilles. When I plainly avow to you that the two modes of relief which I have indicated, and perhaps some relaxation of the N avigation Laws, are the only ones in which I can at present perceive any reasonable hope of your having the assistance of the Imperial Parliament, it nevertheless seems to me that you not only ought not to despair, but that you have the strongest incentives to apply your own legislative powers to the people, the soil, the products, the agriculture, the manufactures, and the trade and commerce of the island. Mr. Speaker, and Gentlemen of the Assembly, The most obviously important of the subjects which annually demand the consideration of the Legislature, namely, the revenue, is one which more peculiarly belongs to you; and upon this occasion I believe that a considerable falling off in the product of the import duties, below the amount of the preceding year, though not, perhaps, below the estimate for the present year, calls for an early and careful examination, as a means of obtaining accurate and valuable details illustrative of the working of the present tariff, and which may be available in the formation of an improved one. It will not escape your observation that the assent of the Crown to the repeal of the differential duties, which were collected under an Act of the Imperial Parliament, has surrendered into your hands a permanent annual revenue of more than 25,000 /., and merged it in the import duties imposed by the island Legislature, which have hitherto been voted only from year to year. I make no secret of my having called the attention of Her Majesty's Government to this circumstance ; but the present Ministers of the Crown, conscious of having no self-interested objects connected with this matter, and feeling that it concerns them in no other respect than as the welfare of Jamaica is connected with it, in which they feel the deepest interest, deem you to be constitutionally the immediate guardians of that welfare, as far as it depends upon supplies of money ; and they will not believe it to be morally possible that you should wilfully make shipwreck of the charge entrusted to your care. Whether, following the example of the mother country, as to the Consolidated Fund, and Civil List, you may deem it expedient to give the quality of permanency to any portion of the revenue which is now dependent on annual votes, it is not for me to pronounce, nor, perhaps, even in the form of advice, to obtrude upon you any very positive opinion. But the times are marked by progress, and are full of change and uncertainty; those who carry every thing before them one day may be the weaker party on the next ; and all I wish to say is, that if I was so fortunate as to have what is called a stake in Jamaica, I would employ, from a regard to my own interest and to that of my family, every legitimate effort to have so much of the revenue made permanent as should be sufficient to place the establishments necessary for the preservation of peace, order, and religion, and for the security of propertv, beyond the reach of the unforeseen mutations to which public affairs have been liable m all times, and are peculiarly so in these. If upon the subject of revenue I venture to make some further suggestions, I do so from a feeling of reliance that you are satisfied they will be offered by me in no spirit of dictation, nor with any presumptuous confidence in my judgment, but as the soundest conclusions at which I have been able to arrive, after an anxious consideration of the subject, into which a sense of the duty attached to my station has urged me to enter, and which has been guided by no other influence than an honest desire to promote the welfare of Jamaica. I am under an impression that, of your existing sources of revenue, the tax which is the heaviest, the most onerous, on account of its necessarily loose valuations, the most costly in its collection, and the most liable to imputations of unfairness, is the parochial tax on hereditaments. I believe it to be also wrong in principle ; because, as it is founded on recurring valuations, it is in reality a tax upon the employment and the fixing of capital; whereas, although I am of opinion that all permanent charges for local government ought to be paid by the landholders of districts, I believe it will be found that the true principle is to limit the assessments as nearly as possible to what may be called the original and intrinsic value of the land, so as not to discourage the investment of capital in the way of improvement; and that the plain and simple course to be pursued, with that object in view, is to make the assessment a uniform rale upon every acre of land in which an estate is claimed, without reference to its value, or to that of the improvements or buildings which have been made on it. For your parochial tax on hereditaments, therefore, my recommendation would be, that you should gradually substitute a system of augmented quit-rents. At and are paid present the quit-rents of 1 d. an acre produce a public revenue of nearly 9,000 consequently on fully 2,000,000 of acres. If it were to be provided, then, that annually, and pari passu, the maximum rate of poundage to which the parochial assessment of hereditaments is limited should decrease, whilst the rate of quit-rents should, in equal progression be increased, so that by the time the tax on hereditaments should be wholly extinguished and abolished, the quit-rents should be raised to 2s. an acre, you might have an annual revenue from the land now paying quit-rent of more than 200,000 which, including the saving that would arise from the absence of valuations, and the easy and far its exceed in inexpensive mode of collection, would net amount the net aggregate of the present quit-rents and the parochial taxes, both on hereditaments and on cattle and stock. The direct and most immediate advantage, I believe, would be, that every holder of an estate in land, with the exception only of those who are bent on holding land for 0.32.

A 2

unprofitable

767 Appendix, No. 1. Sugar Planting. JAMAICA. Encl. 1, in No. 7.

364

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Appendix, No. 1. unprofitable and useless or visionary purposes, would pay much less than he pays now. But the indirect and less obvious advantages which would arise from the encouragement Sugar Planting. that would be given to the permanent investment of capital in land from the prevention of squatting, and trom the turn which would be given to the whole mass of the peasantry, JAMAICA. by inclining them rather to share in the benefit of an increased outlay of capital, by accepting wages instead of clinging to small holdings of land without capital, or anything to Encl. 1, in No. 7. bestow on them, but their mere unaided labour. These indirect advantages, I say, would be of still greater moment; and above all, it is not to be calculated to what extent the resources of the island might be amplified by the acquisition of so plain and sound a basis of finance, on which public institutions might rest, that would give a command of credit and of money for the sustentation, on comparatively easy terms, of those systems of tropical agriculture and manufacture, which cannot exist without the continuous or repeated aid of capital; but when so aided have been, and still may be, the copious sources of immeasurable wealth. Next in importance to the taxes which fall on land are the duties on the import of articles of commerce; and having already proposed for your scrutiny the existing tariff, and assuming it to be an axiom now universally admitted that It is desirable to have the necessary amount of revenue raised rather from low duties on a large importation of cheap articles, than from high duties on a smaller importation of dearer ones, there are only two other remarks which I would take the liberty of making to gentlemen who are for the most part so much more intimately acquainted with the subject than myself. The first is, that import duties have a primary and almost irresistible tendency to fall on the rent of the land on which the commodity is first raised ; the simple reason of which is, that of all the parties'whose profits go to constitute the cost of the imported article, the landlord of the land on which it is raised, if circumstances are left to their natural course, is necessarily the least able to avoid the burthen of the new duty. Stock, skill, labour, the capital expended in earning freight or commission, and all other elements of cost, and consequently of price, find their level; and if pressed by a tax in one direction, they glide off in another. In plainer language, the capital and labour go where each will find its best reward ; the land is a fixture, and cannot escape. Nor is this any misfortune or injustice where the duties are of reasonable amount; for it is quite equitable and fair that he whose rent is increased by the admission of his produce to any market provided for him by others should pay for that advantage a moderate loll. These considerations have always made me regard low, steady import duties, on foreign commodities, as at once the fairest and most advantageous sources of revenue to which a nation can have recourse, next to the moderate, equable, arid uniform assessment of the land of the nation itself. The second remark which 1 wish to offer is, that when the necessities of a state oblige it to go beyond that low amount of import duty which, without struggle or injustice, will be drawn from the land in which the commodity is grown, the sole and simple consideration which ought to be kept in view, in fixing a higher rate of duty, is the procuring of that revenue for which the necessity exists. I mean, that all such indirect and far-sought objects as the discouraging one employment or encouraging another, or bestowing favours on particular parties by the regulation or adjustment of a tariff, should be discarded ; and the sole question ought to be, what is the rate on the particular article which is selected for a high duty that will produce the greatest amount of revenue. If these few and plain principles were to be kept in view, I am inclined to believe that no state free from debt would, with good economical arrangements, require any other sources of revenue. But there is a third and untried source which I have often marvelled should remain untried, and which I believe, in the present era of the world, and in the existing circumstances of this island, might be of great benefit to Jamaica, not only as a source of revenue, but in other ways, though it would require the greatest vigilance on the part of the public, and the greatest, honesty of purpose in public men, to keep it clear of abuse. The wealthiest, the most powerful, and the proudest governments in the world, have not been ashamed to borrow. Is there any reason why they should be ashamed to lend ? And to lend for the In well-regulated governments the State can obtain money at purpose of revenue ? a lower rate of interest than any private individual or association, because the security for repayment is better; it can also afford to lend at what, to any other, would be greater risks, because it has greater power, and more effectual means for assuring itself of payment. On the foundation of these two facts, it seems to me that a strong and wise government, whether paramount or subordinate, might not only administer invaluable assistance to its I have no own people, but might derive the most legitimate augmentations of its revenue scheme of my own prepared for such a purpose; and for the present, at least, I wish to present the subject to you only in its outline and most elementary conditions, and I will now go no further in my illustration of it than to request you to remember, what indeed is not likely to be absent from your minds, how much the difficulties of the planter depend upon the high rate of interest, and the many other hard and ruinous conditions on which he obtains money, and that your judgments should then determine whether it would be impracticable to form any safe plan under which the island treasury, to a limited extent, should raise money at five per cent., and advance it, upon the security of land, for the assistance of agriculture, and of the manufacture of the staple products, at seven per cent.; and whether, ii this be safely practicable, it would not at once bo a source of revenue, and might not go fur towards the salvation of the planting interest. I will not occupy more of your time with these general, and, in some degree, abstract disquisitions; and to some particular and definite subjects which must come under your consideration,

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consideration, I will at present barely make a reference, inasmuch as, if necessary, I shall Appendix, No. 1. have the opportunity of communicating with you in greater detail, by message to the Sugar Planting. Honourable House. The cathedral church of Spanish Town for many months has been closed as unfit and JAMAICA. unsafe for the celebration of Divine service, which has been performed in a building in the immediate neighbourhood, not very well suited to the purpose. Why no repairs have been begun I am not informed ; but the reason in all probability is, that such sums as have Encl. 1, in No. 7. been granted by the Legislature, together with those obtained from other sources, have been ascertained to be inadequate to the completion of what is known to be required, and that it has been deemed better not to begin until it is seen also that there are the means of finishing. If the insufficiency of those funds should be shown to your satisfaction, I cannot doubt that you will grant whatever may be found upon inquiry to be enough, with proper care and economy, to remove from the island the reproach of leaving the principal church of the diocese in abandonment and ruin. By some forgetfulness or casual omission, for which perhaps I myself am in some degree to blame, the last Session of the Legislature came to a close without any grant having been made for carrying on the building of the general penitentiary ; and to avoid the necessity of stopping the works, the Board of Commissioners of the penitentiary, of whom I am one, has been obliged to have recourse to the expedient of charging the ommissioners of the lunatic asylum for work and materials afforded by the prisoners of the penitentiary, and to take advances of money from the last-mentioned commissioners on that account. I feel assured that it cannot be your intention that the building of the penitentiary should be brought to a stand, after so much progress has been made in it with your approbation, and that you will give your attention to the subject as early as you conveniently can. I am afraid I must not suppose it to have been owing merely to any similar omission, that between the Council and Assembly, the Board of Works and the office of island engineer and surveyor of public works were left in abeyance. But whatever you may be pleased to do as to the engineer, I trust you will see the necessity of constituting some Board for the purpose of keeping public buildings in repair, and will supply it with adequate means, Much immediate inconvenience and ultimate loss to the colony must otherwise ensue. The state of the county and district prisons throughout the island requires examination. The county prisons of Middlesex and Cornwall, and the district prisons of Portland, of Buff Bay, and of Aunotto Bay, have all, since you last met, been the subject of representations to the Government, and I may mention that a notice on the part of the Commissioners of Public Accounts, setting a limit to the number of turnkeys to be employed in each prison, which was published in the Gazette, has caused considerable embarrassment to the provostmarshal-general, and, with a less discreet officer, might have given rise to inconvenient differences of opinion amongst grand juries, and the judicial bench, and the executive branch of the Government, and the Commissioners themselves, as to the extent of the legitimate authority of the latter body in such a case. I am confident that you and the Commissioners will, at all events, think, upon consideration, that if the establishment of officers allowed in the prisons is to be more definitely fixed, it had better be done, upon inquiry, in the form of a colonial enactment, than by a summary order in the Gazette, on the part of the Commissioners. In one or two instances, distressing applications have been made to me for the removal front a prison of persons who at the time of commitment have been infected with loathsome and contagious disease, and I have been unable to comply with these requests, because there is no receptacle in which I have any authority to place them. These, and previous circumstances, have induced the Board of Health and some of the principal medical men of the island to. express their wishes that the Legislature should be invited to establish one or more lazarettos; and I scarcely need say that the recommendation has my entire concurrence. Before the end of the year I trust that the Board of Education will be enabled to make a satisfactory report to you of the expenditure or appropriation of the grant of the last Session. At present, I will only say, that after giving due consideration and regard to the priority and superiority of claim, which the Board feels that the Established Chureh of England possesses over any other single church or sect, we leave endeavoured to distribute the grant of the Legislature fairly and impartially, with a view only to the usefulness of the several institutions which have been allowed to partake of it, and without an intentional exclusion of any religious persuasion whatever, the adherents of which, by the laws of the colony, are admitted to partake of legislative rights and functions; and we have succeeded in forming, on a small scale, a normal school for the training and educating of schoolmasters, from which we have endeavoured that no pupils, either by positive regulation, or by the necessity of submission to religious instruction, should be excluded, or deterred, or held back in any degree. This school is easy of access, and open to the inspection of members of the Legislature.; and I trust that with their advice and further assistance, it may be made the germ of a general and comprehensive system. Gentlemen of the Council, Mr. Speaker, and Gentlemen of the Assembly, is unnecessary that I should urge you to bestow a careful attention upon the colonial Acts which are about to expire, and I will merely mention that amongst these are 0.32. 3 A 3 the * IT

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the very important Acts for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors, and the Riot Act; closely connected with which is the Police Act. With reference to the last of these, I ought to Sugar Planting. inform you that from several parts of the island I have received representations of the inadequacy of the present numbers of the police force. JAMAICA. I should feel, however, that I was almost insulting gentlemen of your station and capacity, and of your experience in public affairs, if, either on this head or any other, I Encl. 1, in No. 7. were to enter into exhortations that you will make due provision for the peace of the island, and for the security of the persons and the property of the inhabitants. You do not require to be told by me that there are scarcely any circumstances in which it would not be a false economy to break up or neglect the supports of social order; and that until a community is prepared to abandon all hope, it ought to be its first care to preserve, in their full integrity, all those essential parts of the constitution on which peace, and law, and the general sense and assurance of security depend, and by which religion is upheld and maintained. These are the vitals of society. In these, when its forces may be low, and life may appear to be almost extinct, life still remains, if they themselves still remain, and a favourable change of ever-changing circumstances is alone wanting to enable them to throw out new manifestations of activity, vigour, and luxuriant growth. I am aware that I am considered to be two sanguine in my expectations of returning prosperity, but I do feel a confidence that free trade, and the rapidly progressive civilization of the world, are bringing to England new resources, which will enable the most powerful empire that ever existed, to prevent its colonies from being permanently injured by what is beneficial to itself. Of all the tropical territories of that empire, there is none which has a nearer or more easy communication with the mother country, and with the rest of Europe, and with North America, than Jamaica. In its soil, its rivers, and its harbours, it is eminently favoured. By its geographical position, it is a centre of numerous states of the new world, and fitted more than any other spot to become their emporium. By reason of its mountains, which are higher than those of all the other West Indian islands, it excels them in that variety of climate which so admirably adapts it to be the dwelling of various races, deriving their origin and physical habitudes from the most different parts of the globe. I see all these races living in harmony, and a state of mutual deference and consideration for each other's interests and feelings; the principles of the best social constitution under which men ever lived are established and developed, and the powers of legislation are in the hands of an upper class of society, whom my experience unto this moment leads me to regard as worthy of holding that power, and capable of employing it so as to promote the true interests of the island. I will not believe that all these advantages will be thrown away, or can possibly be unfruitful of that prosperity which it is my most earnest desire that I may in some degree be instrumental in establishing amongst you. Appendix,

No.

(ADDRESS.)

Jamaica, ss. To his Excellency the Right Honourable Sir Charles Edward Grey, Knight, one of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Hanovarian Guelphic Order, Captain-general and Governor-in-chief of this Her Majesty's Island of Jamaica, and other the Territories thereon depending in America, Chancellor, and Vice-admiral of the same, The Humble Address of the Assembly. May it please your Excellency, WE, Her Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, the Assembly of Jamaica, thank your Excellency for your speech at the opening of the present Session, and for your consideration in convening us at as early a period as your Excellency conceived suitable to our convenience. We fully appreciate the trouble which your Excellency has taken, in placing before us the broad line of policy which your Excellency deems will be beneficial to the colony. It will be our duty to give our most serious attention to the suggestions thus offered to us, we feel assured, with an anxious desire to promote the best interests of Jamaica. In seeking that relief which can alone avert the destruction of this colony, we must leave it to Her Majesty's Government to decide as to the means to be adopted, and our confidence in having this relief afforded to us is strengthened by your Excellency's assurance, that you have seen nothing which makes you fear the existence of a disposition, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, to turn a deaf ear to those who address them in the language of reason; as also by your declaration that, in your opinion, we have a strong claim to relief by a further reduction of duty. In our struggle to continue cultivation since the period of emancipation we have anxiously sought assistance, by immigration, from various quarters, and especially from Africa; but the time has now passed when immigration can much avail. Unless attended with other and instant remedial measures, the cultivation of our staples must be abandoned, and the great body of the emancipated people must, themselves, cease to find employment. We are anxious now, as we have ever been, to provide a revenue to support the institutions of the colony, and to maintain the peace and order of society. Acting in this spirit, we shall continue the revenue laws to the end of the ensuing year, in the hope that ere the termination of that period adequate relief will be afforded by the parent Government. We regret, however, to feel ourselves, compelled to state to your Excellency that the raising of such

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such revenue must bear oppressively on a suffering people. The amount will certainly fall short of that of former years, and cannot possibly be sustained beyond the period stated. So far as our declining resources will permit, we beg to assure your Excellency of our readiness to attend to the several objects to which you have specifically alluded, and also to such messages as your Excellency may be pleased to submit to our consideration. (GOVERNOR'S REPLY.)

771 Appendix, No. 1. Sugar PlantingJAMAICA.

End. l, in No. 7.

Mr. Speaker, and Gentlemen of the Assembly, I hope you will rest assured that every word of mine has been addressed to you in perfect sincerity, and that I am prepared to adhere, in my official communications with Her Majesty's Government, to what I have said openly to yourselves. There is no disposition on my part to blame the apprehensions you express in this seasou of difficulty, but I trust that we have witnessed the extreme point of depression, and that the enjoyment is in store for us of fairer and more brilliant days.

Enclosure 2, in No. 7. COPY

ADDRESS from the Honourable the Council of Jamaica to the Governor, in reply to his Excellency's Speech on opening the Session.

End. a, in No. 7.

Jamaica, ss. To his Excellency the Right Honourable Sir Charles Edward Grey, Knight, one of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Hanoverian Guelphic Order, Captain-general and Governor-in-chief of this Her Majesty's Island of Jamaica, and other the Territories thereon depending in America, Chancellor, and Vice-admiral of the same, The Humble Address of the Council. May it please your Excellency, WE, Her Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, the Council of Jamaica, thank your Excellency for the speech with which you have been pleased to open the present Session, and in which we see convincing evidence of the deep anxiety of your Excellency for the wellbeing of this important colony, whose government you have been called on to administer in no ordinary times. We confidently hope that the difficulties in which this, and all the other West India colonies have been thrown in consequence of the recent adjustment of the sugar duties, will engage the serious and earnest attention of Her Majesty's Government; and we cannot doubt that a calm and impartial consideration of those difficulties will induce them to propose to Parliament such alterations as will, at least, procure for us relief to the extent your Excellency has been pleased so emphatically to declare we are entitled. We fully appreciate the importance of the various subjects on which your Excellency has addressed the Legislature; and we can, with sincerity, assure you that all matters which may be brought before us shall receive our anxious consideration. Passed the Council this 20th day of October 1847. W. G. Stewart, (signed) Clerk to the Council. Enclosure 3, in No. 7. COPY

of his Excellency Sir Charles Edward Grey's Reply to the Address of the Honourable Encl. 3, in No. 7. the Council, in answer to his Excellency's Speech on opening the Session.

Gentlemen of the Council, IT is very gratifying to me, and I am confident it is most fortunate for the island, that the Legislative Council and the Executive Branch of the Government take views so nearly similar of the circumstances in which we stand, and of the means by which it would seem that we might be most easily relieved. I am persuaded also that Her Majesty's Ministers will give a willing and patient attention to all claims for that relief which shall be preferred, with feelings of due consideration for the general interests of the empire and for the innumerable and arduous difficulties with which the administrators of that empire have to contend.

Enclosure 4, in No. 7. EXTRACT from the " Morning Journal," Jamaica. Kingston, Jamaica, Saturday, 6 Nov. 1847. THE " Act to transfer certain parochial expenditure to the public of this island, and to relieve parochial taxation," having been disallowed by Her Majesty's Government, a grave and important question arises, how are the parties whose salaries were payable under it to be remunerated up to the 30th June next? The vestries of the several parishes have already made up their expenditure and ways mid means to that period, and levied the taxes necessary to meet the former. They can impose 0.32. 3 A 4

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368 Appendix, No. 1.

impose no further or additional taxes for the purpose of paying the officers whose salaries were made payable under the disallowed Act out of the public treasury. How then Sugar Planting. are these parties to be provided tor? A quarter's salary will become due at the end of the next month, for which no provision has been made, and there will be half a year's JAMAICA. salary to June 1848 in addition before any taxes can be imposed for the payment thereof. If the matter is left to the parishes, these officers must, under the most favourable cirEncl. 4, in No. 7. cumstances, remain unpaid until September next year, when there will be one year's salary due to them. The hardship of their case is manifest, and must challenge the instant attention of the Legislature. The taxpayers will also find their rates for 1848 considerably increased. The vestries will have to raise seven quarters' salaries lor the parties in question, instead of being, as they expected they would be, relieved from raising any money at alt on their account. This will be a heavy blow to those bodies, and to the inhabitants generally, who have been congratulating themselves upon the diminished taxation, whilst the officers will be placed in a most unenviable position. The only mode of escape is by passing an Act to authorize the receiver-general to pay the salaries up to the 30th of June next. The difficulty in the way of this procedure is, will the Governor, after the disallowance of the Act, feel himself at libertv to consent to such continued payment, or to a reversion of the determination come to by the Government? It seems very evident that more is meant by the despatch from Earl Grey than meets the eye. What says his Lordship?â&#x20AC;&#x201D; " In taking these Acts into consideration, Her Majesty's Government have not had regard merely to the presentment and petition against them, and the low rate of salaries assigned by them, but also to the strong objections which exist to throwing upon the general revenue of the island charges which are now provided for by local rates. The motives which, under any circumstances, would dissuade from transference of charge, derive great additional force from the representations made by the Assembly at the commencement of the Session, of an expected falling off in the general revenue, and from the measures which they contemplated then, and have since to some extent given effect, tor reducing the expenditure. It appears to Her Majesty's Government that those measures are to be detended, if at all, upon an anticipation of deficiency, which would be conclusive against the assumption of new changes." What is the plain English of this? Why, that we ourselves stated at the commencement of the last Session that the general revenue was likely to fall off, or be reduced, and that, in consequence of such anticipated reduction, certain measures of retrenchment were necessary. We then proceeded to give proof of our sincerity by introducing a Bill, which was lost in the Council, and reducing subsequently the emoluments of the coroners, collecting constables, clerks of the peace, &c., &c., and wound up by transferring a large amount of expenditure from the parishes to the public, thereby increasing the demands upon the public revenue. The Government have not said that they suspect some desire to exhaust that revenue by the additional impost, or to render it inadequate to the previously existing demand upon it, but they say, if the reductions in question are to be defended at all, it must be upon the ground of the anticipated deficiency, and this latter is conclusive against the transfer of parochial expenses; in other words, that they will take good care, if there be any such latent intention, to defeat it by disallowing the Act. The fact is, that although a reduction was anticipated, and lias taken place in the general revenue, the latter has been found sufficient to bear the previous charges upon it, as well as the amount transferred from the parishes. There was no denying,"however, that the transfers alluded to were made with a view, and for the purpose, of decreasing the parochial expenditure and taxation. It came out in the discussions, and, indeed, could not be disguised, that the object of the reductions which were sought to be made by the bill alluded to, was to reduce the existing claims upon the general revenue, in order, thereby, to be enabled to transfer as large an amount of the parochial expenses as could be to the public. The Government, it seems, are determined, that this shall not be done, or that the transfer shall not be made until it is shown that the general revenue can bear it, without risk or detriment to pre-existing claims. The situation of The House is a delicate one. That it will have to retrace its steps seems very probable. The more pressing and urgent features of the case, however, is, how are the officers, for the payment of whose salaries there is now no provision, to manage? The House is bound to see that they suffer no loss or inconvenience.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 8. -

(No. J22.)

No. 8. Earl Grey to Sir C. E. Grey.

COPY

of a

DESPATCH

from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey.

Sir,

Downing-strect, 22 December 1847. had the honour to receive your despatch, No. 106, of 6th November, enclosing copies of the speech made by you to the Legislature of Jamaica on opening the Session, and of the addresses of the Council and Assembly in reply. I am duly sensible of the ability, and the anxious cure with which you have applied yourself to the consideration of the state of affairs in the West Indies at this critical period, and I am assured by the documents before me, that you had spared no pains to arrive at just conclusions as to the course which should I

HAVE

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773

be taken by Her Majesty's Government; but you must allow me at the same time to express Appendix, No. t. some regret at the language which you have held in parts of your speed). I cannot be surprised that, as Governor of Jamaica and the immediate witness of the disSugar Planting. tress prevailing in the colony, you should have been in some degree thrown off your guard JAMAICA. by feelings with which every person who is responsible for measures affecting the welfare of the colonists must be deeply impressed. But it is unfortunate that you were led to No. 8. indulge and express in a manner thus public and formal, expectations of a species of Earl Grey to Sir relief being afforded which it will not be possible to grant. Her Majesty's Government entertain a strong conviction that the adoption of the mea- C. E. Grey. sures which I understand you to recommend, by destroying all confidence in the permanence of the recent arrangement respecting the sugar duties levied in this country, would tend rather to injure than to benefit the colonies, while at the same time such a course would be inconsistent with those views as to the commercial policy best calculated to promote the more general interests of the empire at large which they have deliberately adopted, and which Parliament has no less deliberately sanctioned. Whilst, therefore, I share with you, to its fullest extent, the anxiety which you feel that relief should be afforded, I cannot but regret that anything should be said which may lead the colonists to look for it where it is not to be found. I have already in my despatch of the 10th ultimo, No. 105, indicated the sources from which, in the opinion of Her Majesty's Government, real relief may he derived, and I trust that in no long time those sources will be made available. And if in the meantime the pressure is seriously felt, it should be remembered that the difficulties of the period are not confined to the West India trade, nor solely attributable to measures or circumstances peculiar to that trade. No small portion of them are common to the trade of the whole British empire, and arise out of causes over which neither Her Majesty's Government nor Parliament have any control. Whilst our manufacturing and commercial interests at large are suffering so severely, it is impossible that the demand for immediate consumption for sugar, as well as other articles, should not he affected, while at the same time the ordinary speculative purchases by which the market might otherwise be relieved, must be greatly discouraged. This state of affairs has occasioned heavy losses to the producers and importers of numberless commodities, including some to which the recent changes in our commercial policy have no application, and if sugar has suffered a considerable depression, which is not unnaturally, though I believe incorrectly attributed to the recent alteration of the duties, various other articles, indigo for example, on which no such measures have been taken, are likewise now selling at a lower rate than at any former period, and at a price which is stated to be far below the cost of production. Taking due account of these causes of distress, arising out of general but temporary pressure, I venture to hope, that as this country emerges from its present difficulties (which I see no reason to doubt that by the blessing of Providence it speedily may), the colonies also will partake in the improvement of our prospects. In the meantime, all that can be done is, to endeavour, by such well-considered measures as it is in the power of Parliament or the colonial Legislatures to adopt, to mitigate that distress which it is impossible entirely to remove. With this view, Parliament has already relieved the trade of the West Indian colonies from nearly all the restrictions which were estimated in a paper officially communicated to the Board of Trade in the year 1830, by the committee of West India planters and merchants, as equivalent to a charge of more than 5s. per cwt. on the production of sugar, and Her Majesty's Government have recommended to the consideration of Parliament the question of altering the Navigation Laws, the only remaining restrictive laws by which the colonists appear to be exposed to any serious disadvantage. Whilst these efforts have been made to give facilities to trade, the supply of labour has occupied the attention of Her Majesty's Government; two ships are now on their way to Africa for emigrants to Jamaica, and the necessary agency has been brought into operation for expediting the emigration of any number of emigrants who may be found willing to proceed to the West Indies from the free districts on the African coast. The efforts of Parliament and of Her Majesty's Government will be seconded, I doubt not, by the strenuous exertions of individual proprietors, without which no public measures can be of much avail, and by the best endeavours of the colonial authorities to do what depends upon them. I am happy to observe that the Legislature of Jamaica has evinced, under such trying circumstances, a wise spirit of moderation, not adopting those rash measures of refusing to continue the taxes, and to vote supplies required for the public service, which some persons were found to recommend, but judiciously availing itself of the power accorded by Parliament to abolish the differential duties on imports into the island, and in the present Session pursuing a like beneficial policy by reducing the rates of duty on imports. These wise measures will, I am confident, tend materially to promote the trade of the colony; and this policy might, I am persuaded, be carried yet further with the happiest effects, provided the deficiency occasioned in the revenue by a further reduction of the duties upon imports were to be judiciously supplied, and I entirely agree in the opinion expressed by you in your speech that the best source of this supply would be in an increase of the quit rents now charged upon land. The increase to 2 s. per acre, which you have suggested, would not be sensibly felt as a burthen by the occupiers of such land as is profitably employed, whilst it would be anything but a disadvantage to the colony that those who hold land, which they do not turn to account, should be subjected to it, inasmuch as it would then become the interest of such proprietors either to cultivate the land or to part with it. Above 0.32. 3 B

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Above all, the obvious tendency of sush a change in the mode of levying the public revenue would be to correct what appears to me a very serious evil in the existing system of taxSugar Planting. ation, which by raising the price of imported provisions, while it does not enhance the cost of land cultivated in provisions, tends artificially to encourage the negroes to labour on their JAMAICA. provision grounds rather than for wages on the plantations, thus aggravating the principal difficulty with which the planter has to contend. No. 8. I will not quit this subject without adverting to a further improvement in taxation on the Earl Grey to Sir same principle, which is more immediately suggested by the observations in your despatch, C. E. Grey. No. 106, on the disallowance of the Act of last Session, providing for the transfer of certain parochial charges to the general revenue. I am greatly concerned to- find that the disallowance of this Act is likely to occasion dissatisfaction; but I am convinced that the Act could not have been allowed to continue in operation without doing great injury both in itself and in its establishment of a policy which general experience, and especially that of our own colonies and of the United States, has, I think, clearly demonstrated to be erroneous. The political and moral advantages of providing for local objects by local charges, and the disadvantages of throwing them upon the general revenue, have been so often pointed out by the highest authorities, by reference to such striking examples of the effects of both systems, that I cannot too strongly deprecate, in Jamaica, the policy of converting local into general charges. And whilst I shall willingly accede to any temporary measure for meeting the immediate inconvenience expected to result from the disallowance of the Act referred to, I would strongly recommend to the consideration of the Assembly the question whether, as a permanent measure, the inconvenience complained of in the modes hitherto in use of raising money for local objects might not be obviated by giving to the parochial authorities power to increase for these objects the amount of the quit rents which has been suggested as a source of general revenue, the vestries might be enabled to vote such an addition to the general imposts as local purposes might require, the produce of the tax, which should be" levied altogether for the sake of cheapness of collection, being divided between the general and parochial treasuries in the proper proportion. It is thus that in France provision is made for departmental expenditure, by the levy of " centimes additionels," along with the "Impot foncier" required for the state. I have offered these suggestions, perhaps, with imperfect information as to details, certainly with no disposition to oppose my views to those of the Assembly on matters on which it is their right and duty to judge for themselves, but at the same time, with a strong impression that if, as I have your authority to assume, the principles of taxation to which I have adverted can be practically carried into effect, they will be most advantageous to the colony in their operation, and that they are therefore worthy the attention and consideration of the Legislature, and I rejoice to perceive from the spirit in which the Legislature had applied itself to the business of the Session, that any propositions which have the public welfare in view are likely to be willingly received, and carefully considered. I have, &c. (signed) Grey. Appendix, No 1.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D;No. No, g. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

9.â&#x20AC;&#x201D;

(No. 112.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

King's House, Jamaica, 20 November 1847. My Lord, (Received 28 December 1847.) IN compliance with the request of Mr. Whitelock, the custos of the parish of Hanover, I have the honour to lay before your Lordship the enclosed memorial of the inhabitants of that parish, addressed to Her most Gracious Majesty The Queen in Council. I have, &c. (signed) Charles Edward Grey.

Enclosure in No. 9. Encl. in No. g.

To Her most Gracious Majesty The QUEEN, in Council. The humble MEMORIAL of the Planters, Merchants, Labourers, and other Inhabitants of Hanover, in Jamaica. May it please Your Majesty, memorialists are reduced to the greatest distress, and pray your Majesty's interference in their behalf, to prevent the utter annihilation of their property, and their being driven forth from the colony they inhabit, pennyless, and without a home. Your memorialists have laboured under great disadvantages since the abolition of slavery, in consequence of a large portion of their former labourers having at the period of their freedom betaken themselves to other than agricultural employments, thus circumscribing the labour market, and rendering labour dear and uncertain. In this once flourishing district, there were 71 sugar estates, besides numerous grazing farms and ginger plantations. Of these, since freedom, no fewer than 14 sugar estates, and the whole of the ginger plantations, have been abandoned for want of labour to cultivate them; while the remaining 57 sugar estates are not raising more than one-fourth the YOUR

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371

quantity of produce they did previous to the abolition of slavery; and, with four exceptions, the whole of them will this year bring their proprietors in debt. Your memorialists most respectfully submit, that, should this ruinous state of affairs continue a few months longer, the whole of these properties (once giving a large income) must be thrown up, and your memorialists reduced to beggary and ruin. Your memorialists humbly trust that your Majesty will adopt some measures to avert so dreadful a calamity; they submit that this one year of active competition with the foreign slave-grower of sugar has proven the utter impossibility of their continuing such a contest, and unless they are immediately relieved, this fine island must inevitably become an incumbrance to your Majesty, instead of contributing (as heretofore) so largely to the revenue. Your memorialists with all deference submit, that a reduction of duty on British colonial sugar, so as to afford them a protection against the slave-grower, would neither tend to limit the consumption or diminish the revenue, while it would prevent the abandonment of the British sugar colonies. They respectfully point out for your Majesty's consideration, that while they have been by the late free-trade measures brought into competition with the foreign slave-grower, their fellow-subjects in Great Britain are still protected, to your memorialists' great loss. The British distiller, in addition to the advantage he enjoys over your memorialists, by their distance from the market, entailing on them an expense of Is. 4d. per gallon, viz. (freight per gallon. 6 d.; insurance and mercantile charges, 5 Id.; loss by leakage and evaporation on the passage, six per cent, on a puncheon at the place of shipment here; 96 gallons, 2 1/4., loss of puncheon, 20s., is per gallon 2 1/4d., in all, Is. 4d. per gallon), enjoys a protection against their rum of 9d. per gallon. The British shipowner is protected by the Navigation Laws, and compels your memorialists to pay a freight nearly double the amount they would pay if they were permitted to ship on other vessels. A large amount of American shipping leaves the island in ballast, which might, but for the protection afforded the British shipowners, carry away your memorialists' produce; your memorialists would thus obtain their staves, provisions, and other American commodities at a cheaper freight, as well as transmit their sugar and rum. By a late A.ct of Parliament your memorialists' sugar has been admitted into use in the breweries and distilleries, but they beg to point out that many excise regulations act injuriously against its free use, while the excessive duty of 14s. per hundredweight, or 75 per cent, on its value, must, should the grain harvest prove as abundant as your memorialists have reason to expect, prevent its being used at all, as foreign corn will entirely supersede it. Your memorialists humbly point out to your Majesty's notice, that while foreign corn is admitted into Great Britain at a nominal rate of duty, sugar grown by your subjects in Jamaica and the other colonies is charged 75 per cent, on its net value, it being not only an article of British growth but one of the greatest necessaries of life. Your memorialists feel acutely this marked distinction made in favour of foreigners to the detriment of your Majesty's own subjects, who have ever been foremost when difficulties and dangers have at various times threatened the empire, to contribute both in purse and person to its defence. Many of your memorialists left their native country at an early age, and have been years toiling under a tropical sun, to amass property now rendered valueless ; and should they be compelled to desert their plantations, have no means of obtaining a livelihood for themselves and families but by emigrating to the foreign slave-sugar countries, there to pursue the only avocation they have been accustomed to, and endeavour as they best can, with their ruined fortunes and impaired constitutions, to obtain that support their own countrymen have denied them. Your memorialists implore your Majesty to take their grievances into consideration, and graciously to interpose between them and ruin; and your memorialists, as in duty bound, will ever pray. On behalf of the meeting, H. A. Whit clock, Chairman. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 10.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 120.) COPY of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey. Sir,

Downing-street, 10 January 1848. received your despatch, dated 20 November last, No. 112, accompanied by an address to the Queen in Council, on behalf of the planters, merchants, and other inhabitants of the parish of Kingston, Jamaica, praying for relief under the present depressed state of the West India interests. This petition has been laid before Her Majesty in Council, by whom it was very graciously received. You have recently been put so fully in possession of the views of Her Majesty's Government on the subject of this petition, that you will be enabled to communicate those sentiments to the petitioners, together with the assurance of the deep interest which Her Majesty takes in their welfare. I have, &c. Grey. (signed) 0.32. 3 B 2 I HAVE

775 Appendix, No. 1. Sugar Planting. JAMAICA.

End. in No. 9.

No. to. Earl Grey to Sir. C. E, Grey.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

372

Appendix, No 1. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 11.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; Sugar Planting. JAMAICA. No. 11 Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

(No. 125.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir to Earl Grey.

E. Grey

King's House, Jamaica, 22 December 1847. My Lord, (Received 31 January 1848.) I HAVE the honour to lay before your Lordship a copy of a letter from Mr. Whitelock, the custos of the parish of Hanover, together with a memorial, addressed to your Lordship by several proprietors and lessees of sugar estates on the western part of the island of Jamaica. I have, &c. Charles Edward Grey. (signed)

Enclosure in No. 11. Encl. in No. 11.

COPY

of a LETTER from Mr. H. A. Whitelock to 7. F. Pi/grim, Esq.

Westmoreland, Grange Hill Post-Office, 20 December 1847. Sir, AT the request of the individuals subscribing to it, I have the honour to enclose a letter to the Earl Grey, Secretary to the Colonies, which it is our earnest hope may be forwarded by the present packet, by his Excellency the Governor. We believe it to be the etiquette thus to transmit any document intended for the Colonial Office, and we feel assured his Excellency will excuse the trouble we are giving him. I am, &c. (signed) H. A. Whitelock.

MEMORIAL to the Right Honourable the Earl Grey, Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies, 8tc. &c. &c. My Lord, W E pray your earnest attention to the following facts. We, the undersigned, are the owners of 19, and the lessees of 13 sugar estates in the west end of the island of Jamaica, on which properties we employ daily an average of 2,898 labourers, who represent families numbering 14,490 people, lately redeemed from slavery. Our sugar estates, 32 in number, are expected to make this year 2,796 hogsheads of sugar and 1,354 puncheons of rum, which will cost us, by accurate computation, (50,315 l. 13 s. 5d. We have no hope of realizing more than 15/. per hogshead and 14/. per puncheon (the maximum of the market at present), at which rate our produce will bring (50,896 l., leaving a balance over our expenditure of 580 /. (5s. Id. to go against six per cent., the common rate of interest which money bears in the colony, and which on 60,315 l. 13s. 5d. would be 3,618/. 18s. 9d. Our capital invested on these 32 sugar estates in live stock and implements of husbandry, amounts in livestock to 32,094/.; in implements, to 14,630/. upon which wear-and-tear capital we receive no interest whatever. The 19 sugar estates that we own cost us 95,784/., and we pay a rental for the 13 other estates of 3,110/. per annum, which sunk capital is likewise wholly profitless. We are not so absurd as to expect that the British nation should abandon the principles of free trade, now upheld by the majority of the people, in order to afford us protection, but we submit it cannot be consonant with the spirit of free trade to give to the slave colonies a monopoly of the sugar market by allowing them to cultivate sugar with means (slaves) denied to us; and we submit they must have that monopoly if the British West Indies cease to supply the market with sugar, as your Lordship must have ascertained that a supply from the Fast Indies cannot be obtained at the rates of slave-grown produce. Now we are resident proprietors, and all of us, with one exception, have purchased and leased our properties since the Emancipation Act. It will be evident, from the facts stated that we cannot cultivate for another year; indeed, we have not the means, unaided, of taking off the present crop, and the British West India merchants are now unable to assist us, and of course disinclined, where there is no hope of profit or even of recovering their advances. If we, being proprietors and lessees, living on and managing our own properties, brought up to tropical agriculture, and availing ourselves of every practical improvement, have only such a result to exhibit as is set forth in the statement of these facts, the inference is conclusive that the position ol the absentee proprietor or mortgagee, represented by paid agencies, is still more deplorable. It is evident

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

373

that unless some mode of suppressing slavery and the slave trade more effectual than that hitherto pursued be adopted, and without immediate aid, in the shape of money loans, sugar cultivation, upon which 300,000 of the emancipated negroes are wholly dependent, must cease in Jamaica. But our object in submitting these facts to your Lordship is to enable you to draw your own inferences, and suggest your own remedies, and we beg you will consider our desperate position as an excuse for troubling you with the statement. We have, &c. H. A. Whitelock. (signed) (and 15 others.)

NUMBER and

Number Number ofEstates of Estates

owned by rented by Sub-

Sub-

criber.

scriber.

Two One -

Two

Cattle.

Mules.

Total Amount of Expenditure Implements in 1847 for the Estates Wages, Taxes, upon for which each Salaries, Ditto. Lumber, &c. is interested.

Stock upon all

One One Two One

Two Two

One One One Two

s. d.

Value of

£•

s. d.

£■

s. d. 7 6 - -

660 100

138

5,340 1,000

2,000 500

8,734 2,500

51 340 180 170 610 566 160 280 185 80 250 230 47 160

48 10

7 37 40 38 76 23 35 47 18 56

888 2,090 1,260 1,020 3,765 3.766 1,360 2,800 1,335 790 2,060 2,080 516 2,024

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

500 800 500 450 900 3,000 500 530 1,200 500 1,500 900 200 650

2,200 2,700 1,920 1,450 6,250 8 9,149 14 2,226 12 4,323 4,850 1,500 3,600 3,930 900 4,081 10

4,078

573

32,094

- 14,630

- 60,315 13

Two

of Estates, Livestock,

Value of Live Number of Live Stock.

£.

One Two One One Two Three One -

VALUE

4 7 6 6

777 Appendix,

Sugar Planting. JAMAICA.

End, in No. 11.

&C.

Average

Annual

Purchase

Estimated Daily Crop Number for this Year. of La-

Amount of

Money

Rental Paid

Freeholds.

Hds.

each Lessee.

£.

s. d.

8,000 5,000

7,000 6,600 4,734 3,050 13,000 1,750 1,650

6,000 9,000 10,000 10,000

5 95,784

£. 550

s. d. - -

Puns.

Sugar. Rum.

430 120

215 60

500123

110 140 100 50 300 408 101 200 218 100 160 170 35 154

55 80 50 22 150 152 50 110 109 50 75 85 14 77

100 140 100 60 250 410 100 200 240 70 225 190 30 160

1,354

2,898

500

660 450

200 200 150 400

3,110

- 2,796

Signature

bourers Em- of Proprietor and ployed on all Lessee. Subscribers' Estates.

H. A. Whitelock. T. Tate. (65 Coolies also employed daily.) E. H. Clarke. W. Walcott. C. A. Abbott. P. Easson. B. Kitters. T. M'Niel. R. Dewar. D. Sinclair. G. B. Vidal. S. Holt. S. S. Hugh. W. R. Cooke. W. Wbitmore. W. Hutton.

Grange Hill Post-office, Westmoreland, Jamaica, 16 December 1817.

— No. 12.— (No. 110.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey.

Sir,

Downing-street, 12 February 1848. I HAVE to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch of the 20th December last, No, 125, transmitting a letter addressed to me by several proprietors and lessees of sugar estates in the west end of J amaica. You will express to the gentlemen who have signed this letter the regret with which I have read the statements contained in it; but you will at the same time observe to them, that while I am well aware of the severity of their present distress, I believe that they are mistaken in the causes to which they attribute it, and that they take too gloomy a view of their future prospects. You will further observe to them, that their statement of loss is founded upon the prices of a season of almost unparalleled difficulty, and that there is no branch of industry in this country, whether agricultural or manufacturing, which has not experienced similar periods of adversily, in winch losses have been sustained not less serious than those now complained of; yet such times of difficulty have been followed by better days, as I trust will be the case with Jamaica. I have, &c. (signed)

0.32.

3 B 3

Grey.

No.

Earl Grey to Sir C. E. Grey.

APPENDIX TO

374

THIRD REPORT

FROM THE

Appendix No. 1. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 13.â&#x20AC;&#x201D;

Sugar Plaining. JAMAICA.

(No. 17.) of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey-, dated King's House, Jamaica, 7 February 1848. (Received 6 March 1848.)

EXTRACT

No. 13. Governor Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

Address. Memorial to The Queen, 24 Dec. 1847.

ALTHOUGH it has been already seen by your Lordship in the printed Votes, I think it right to transmit, in a separate despatch, the memorial addressed by the House of Assembly to Her Majesty, of which, and of the address of the House to myself, requesting that the memorial should be transmitted, I have the honour to lay copies before your Lordship.

The report of the committee on the distressed state of the planting interest, which is embodied in the memorial, was in all likelihood prepared by Mr. Barclay, the chairman, who presided personally in all its proceedings. The evidence has not been printed, but it was collected from all quarters of the island; and, I understand, exhibited a very remarkable variety in the condition, means, and prospects of different properties. That the majority of estates labour under ruinous distress, whilst the prices of sugar remain at their present rate, is, I fear, undeniable ; but some proprietors and managers retain their hopes, and in some instances I am told the evidence, especially from the western end of the island, was unexpected by the committee, and proved that in some instances, and under certain circumstances, sugar cultivation is still far from being in a desperate condition, or, at present, absolutely unprofitable. All statements of the cost of production must be received with caution. The fact is, that even the real and unavoidable cost varies widely on different estates, and in different parts of the island, and that in the estimates given by different witnesses it is impossible to guess, without strict cross-examination, what expenses are improperly included. One gentleman acknowledged to me that he had given his estimate upon an average of the whole expenses of his estate for five years, as compared with the product of sugar, and that he included what he had laid out during that period in many costly improvements, which were only preparatory to an increased cultivation of sugar, which did not fall within the period. At Golden Grove, and Stanton, in St. Thomas-in-the-East, the cost of production is said not to exceed, at the most, 14s., and on some estates in St. George, I know it has been carefully estimated at 16s.; but in all cases these estimates are independent of what are called "charges," amounting to about 8s., for mercantile commission, agency, and freight, &c., which are incurred in the transit of the sugar into the London market.

Enclosure in No. 13. Encl. in No. 13.

May it please your Excellency, WE are ordered by the House to wait on your Excellency, and to request that you will be pleased to forward to the Secretary of State for the Colonies the accompanying Memorial to The Queen, with a request that he will present the same, in the most acceptable manner, to Her Majesty.

Jamaica, ss. To The

QUEEN'S

most Excellent Majesty.

The humble MEMORIAL of Your Majesty's loyal and dutiful Subjects the Assembly of Jamaica. Most gracious Sovereign, YOUR memorialists have implored Your Majesty, on repeated occasions, in the most pressing terms, to direct your Ministers that they should look to the condition of your subjects in this colony, and grant them relief; but their supplications have ever been in vain. The ruin which we last year anticipated is now fast overtaking us, and the sugar duty Acts of Parliament will soon complete the destruction of our property, unless efficient and immediate relief be afforded us, and the sugar and coffee cultivation of the west, which formerly contributed immensely to the national wealth, will cease to exist for any beneficial purpose to the empire.

Our alarming condition will be best understood by our placing before Your Majesty facts proved in solemn form, before a committee of the Assembly, whose report was recommended by the House to be embodied in this memorial to Your Majesty, which is as follows: " That they have taken the evidence of persons interested, as proprietors and managers of property, from nearly every parish in the island, from which evidence, and from the parochial and island records, the following results are established, as will more fully appear bv reference to the examinations hereunto annexed. " l. That

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

375

" 1. That since the passing of the British Slave Emancipation Act, of the 653 sugar estates then in cultivation in this island, 140 have been abandoned, and the works broken up, containing 168,032 acres of land, and having then employed in their cultivation 22,553 labourers. " 2. That those properties, now extinct, produced in the year 1832, 14,178 hogsheads of sugar, and 5,903 puncheons of rum. " 3. That during the same period 465 coffee plantations have been abandoned, and their works broken up, containing 188,400 acres of land, and having employed in their cultivation, in the year 1832, 26,830 labourers. " 4. That of 138 sugar estates, given in evidence, the crops made in 1832 were 25,928 hogsheads of sugar, and 10,008 puncheons of rum ; in 1847, 17,359 hogsheads of sugar, and 8,331 puncheons of rum; showing a decrease of 8,569 hogsheads of sugar, and 1,677 puncheons of rum. " a. That upon certain estates shown to have had attached to them, and engaged in their cultivation, in the year 1832, 41,820 labourers, there now remain resident on those properties only 13,973, the others, amounting to 27,847, having generally become independent settlers. " 6. That the sum of 1,405,8871. 14 s. 11 d. was expended in the cultivation and manufacture of 57,006 hogsheads of sugar, and 26,711 puncheons of rum, giving this result, that, after deducting proceeds of the rum, averaged at 14/. per puncheon, the actual cost of sugar averaged it. 2 s. 7 1/2 d. per cwt.; consequently that as its value is now, by slave competition, reduced in the British market to about 15 s., exclusive of charges, it is self-evident sugar cultivation cannot be continued; that there is an actual loss on every cwt. of 7 s. 7 J d., without taking into account interest on capital and money expended, equal, at the least, to 4 s. 6 d. more per cwt.; while, as regards coffee, the evidence is conclusive that it is, if possible, even in a worse condition. " 7. That it is shown by the evidence that up to the present year funds have been regularly at command to pay for labour. " 8. That the plough and other implements of husbandry have been used in all cases where practicable. " 9. That, except it might be about the factories, machinery cannot be made more available as a substitute for labour. " 10. That, in respect to immigration, the Asiatic labourers have not been found to answer the purposes of the country; while, on the other hand, the Africans have proved eminently useful, as is shown especially in St. Thomas-in-the-East, where, from their numbers, the estates on which they are located have been able to keep their factories at work during Saturdays, and to have their general labour better performed. " 11. That, from the now independent condition of the mass of the people, the command of labour has become exceedingly precarious, often not to be had at all when most wanted; that hardly in any case will the people work on estates for more than five days in the week; that in several districts they refuse to work more than four days in the week ; that the average time of field-labour is from five to six hours a day; that the labour given for the wages is not only inadequate in quantity, but generally ill performed; that oh the anniversary of freedom, and at Christmas, the entire agricultural population spend from one to two weeks in idleness; that in some districts this is also the case at Easter; that at all these periods, even if the canes are rotting on the ground, and the coffee falling from the trees, no rate of wages will induce the people to work; and that labour continues to become more scarce every year by the people withdrawing from the plantations. " Your committee submit, that the question now left for the British Government to decide is whether, putting the ruin of the colonists altogether out of view, the national interests will be promoted by annihilating sugar and coffee cultivation in its own colonies; the inevitable consequence of which must be, and that speedily, to transfer to foreigners a high-priced monopoly of these articles in the British markets. " Assuming that such cannot be the wish of the Government or people of England, it is a matter of deep interest how the impending calamity is to be avoided. " It has been shown that, even with protection, many of the properties have been ruined by the emancipation measure, and that all have been most seriously injured; that sugar cannot be produced in Jamaica under 27 s. per cwt., to give common interest on capital; while in Cuba, your committee are well informed that 12 s. per cwt. is a remunerative price. " In this state of things it is self-evident that, whatever palliatives may be applied, nothing but protection in the home market can avert the immediate abandonment of sugar and coffee cultivation in the British colonies. In a ratio as the means of labour are provided, the amount of protection may be safely withdrawn; until, at no distant period, these valuable possessions shall again contribute, as they formerly did, to the national wealth and prosperity. In the meantime the only alternatives are, protection or destruction." 0.32. 3 B 4

779

Appendix, No. 1. Sugar Planting. JAMAICA. Encl, in No. 13.

376 Appendix, No. 1.

Sugar Planting. JAMAICA.

End. in No. 13.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

We therefore most humbly and most earnestly pray Your Majesty, 1st. That the duties levied on the produce and industry of Your Majesty's West India" subjects may be altogether abolished, or so reduced as to place us on at least equal term with the slave-holding foreigner. 2dly. That 110 higher amount of duty be levied on colonial spirits thnn on spirits distilled in the United Kingdom. 3dly. That every encouragement be given to the use of sugar and molasses in brewers and distilleries. 4thly. That extensive immigration into this colony, from Africa, be immediately undertaken and conducted at the national expense, our own resources being now nearly exhausted. f o 5thly. That the national treaties with Spain, Portugal, and Brazil, for the suppression the slave trade, be rigidly enforced. We also pray Your Majesty that this island be relieved from the balance of the loan received under "the Act passed in the second and third years of the reign of his late MostGracious Majesty King William IV. c. 125, which, in the declining state of our fortunes, we are now unable to liquidate. We regret the necessity which compels us to make these requests, but we Majesty that our condition is deplorable.

assure

Your

be Finally, We entreat Your Majesty graciously to listen to these our complaints, to be assured of their truth, and to take immediate measures for causing them to be redressed. If those measures now in progress for supplying us with an accession of African laboures had been earlier undertaken, they would have been truly beneficial; but they have be delayed until despair has paralyzed the exertions of Your colonial subjects, and although these measures are now welcome, they will fall short of conferring the advantage. Which would have resulted from them if earlier applied, and will be of little avail, unless accompanied by other relief, for which we now pray. And Your memorialists, as in duty bound, will ever pray, &c. Passed the Assembly, this 24th day of December 1047. (signed)

S. J. Dallas, Speak1'*

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

377

GRENADA.

781 Appendix,

No.

Sugar Planting.

— No. 1.— (No. 53.)

GRENADA.

from Governor Reidto Earl Grey. No. 1. 16 December 1847. Governor Reid to My Lord, (Received 31 January 1848.) Grey. Earl I HAVE the honour to forward to your Lordship a petition to the House of Lords, transmitted to me by the Lieutenant-governor of Grenada, from the inhabitants of the Island of Letter and Petition 29 October 1847 Carriacou, and which they respectfully request your Lordship to present. The petitioners pray that every facility may be afforded for the admission of their produce into the home markets on the same terms as the products of the mother country, and should the revenue suffer in consequence, that it be made up by taxing slave-grown sugar. Lieut.-Governor to Governor-in-Chlef. No. 115. 6 Dec. 1847. I have, &c. (signed) Wm. Reid, Governor. COPY

of a

DESPATCH

Enclosure in No. 1. (No. 115.) Sir, Government House, Grenada, 6 December 1847. I HAVE the honour to transmit to your Excellency a letter from Mr. Mitchell, of Carriacou, to Earl Grey, with a petition to the House of Lords, stated to have been agreed to at a public meeting of the inhabitants of that island, and numerously signed. The petition, which is respectfully worded, having been forwarded to me with a request that it may be transmitted to the Secretary of State, I enclose the same to your Excellency, to be so forwarded, if you think proper. I have, &c. His Excellency Colonel Reid, c.n. (signed) Ker B. Hamilton, Governor-General, Barbados. Lieutenant Governor, (True copy, &c.) E. Hore, Private Secretary.

Encl. in No. 1.

Carriacou. 29 October 1847 Petition.

To the Right Honourable Earl Grey, Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies, &c. &c. &c. My Lord, Carriacou, 29 October 1847. . As chairman of a numerous and respectable public meeting of the inhabitants of this island, which took place at the Court House, in the town of Hillsborough, on the 9th instant, I have the honour of transmitting to your Lordship the petition unanimously agreed to at that meeting, with an earnest request that your Lordship would be pleased to present the same to the Right honourable the Members of the House of Lords, as soon after we next meeting of Parliament as may be convenient, and that your Lordship may be pleased favourably to view and support the prayer thereof. This, my Lord, is no class petition, emanating from any particular party, or got up for party purposes, but expresses the honest convictions of every person of whatsoever condition in the island. The petitioners earnestly pray for relief, and will thankfully receive it in any shape which their Lordships in their wisdom may see fit to grant it. I have, &c. (signed) George Mitchell, Chairman, — No. 2.— (No. 48.) COPY

of a

DESPATCH

from Earl Grey to Governor Lieutenant-colonel Reid.

Sir,

Downing-street, 16 February 1848. No. 2. to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch, No. 53, of the 16th December, Earl Grey to accompanied by a petition to the House of Lords from the inhabitants of Carriacou. Governor Reid. , You will be pleased to instruct the Lieutenant-governor of Grenada to inform the petitioners that I will not fail to present their petition to the House of Lords ; but that I regret 'hat I cannot, on behalf of Her Majesty's Government, recommend to Parliament a compliance with the wishes expressed in it. The Lieutenant-governor will observe to the petitioners, that " the admission of their produce into the home markets on the same terms as the produce of the mother country," which is the object of their petition, is already provided for by the existing law, as it imposes the same duty on the beet-root sugar of this country with that which is levied on colonial sugar. I have, &c. Grey. (signed) I HAVE

0.32.

3 C

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

378 Appendix, No. 1. Sugar Planting.

ST. LUCIA.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 1.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 1. Governor Reid to Earl Grey.

28 January 1848. No. 9, with 3 Enclosures,

(No. 16.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Governor Reid to Earl Grey.

Barbadoes, 31 January 1848. My Lord, (Received 6 March 1848.) I HAVE the honour to forward to your Lordship a copy of a despatch from the Lieutenant-governor of St. Lucia, transmitting a letter from Mr. Melcher G. Todd, a planter and member of council of that island, representing that he is proprietor of one of the largest estates in St. Lucia, and lessee of two others; that he shipped 412 casks of sugar last year, weighing 5,768 cwts., for which 4,0371. 12s. sterling would be received for duties in England; that the average price of the sugar in question at the home market was 36 s., and that the cost of it to him was 38 s. 6d. Mr. Todd's statement is a painful one to read. I have written little or nothing on the state of sugar cultivation during the year I have been here. This has been owing to the great difficulty of procuring data from which accurate results may be deduced, and being unwilling to give mere verbal statements which might mislead your Lordship. I am now endeavouring to arrive at the average cost of making a cwt. of sugar, and I am not without hope of obtaining it voluntarily from estate books, and properly verified. I very much fear, however, that, with the exception of Barbadoes, there will be found many other instances like Mr. Todd's, where the planter is cultivating his estate at a loss, and cannot do otherwise. I have, &c. (signed) Wm. Reid, Governor.

Enclosures in No. 1. Encls. in No. 1.

(No. 9.) St. Lucia, Government House, 28 January 1848. I HAVE the honour to transmit herewith the copy of a letter from the Honourable M. G. Todd, a member of the Legislative Council, enclosing a letter addressed to your Excellency, which Mr. Todd is desirous should be forwarded by the earliest opportunity. Sir,

27 January 1848.

18 January 1848.

As the subject matter of Mr. Todd's communication is of an imperial rather than a colonial character, I deem it unnecessary to accompany his communication by any observations of my own; but I beg to transmit the copy of a letter which I have thought it right should be addressed to Mr. Todd, pointing out the rules which ought, I conceive to be adhered to with respect to representations for the consideration of Her Majesty's Government, and which I trust your Excellency may consider correct, and in accordance with the principles of the printed " Colonial Regulations," on the subject of correspondence generally. I have, &c. (signed) C. H. Darling, Lieutenant-governor. His Excellency Colonel Reid, R.E., C.B. & Governor-in-Chief, &c. &c. &c.

F.R.S.,

Sir, St. Lucia, Castries, 27 January 1848. I BEG to forward you enclosed a letter which I have addressed to his Excellency Governor Reid, with request that you will submit the same to his Excellency Governor Darling, and to beg the favour of it being transmitted to Barbadoes by the earliest opportunity. To the Honourable William Hanley, Colonial Secretary, &c. &c.

I have, &c. Melcher G. Todd. (signed)

Sir,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

379

783

Appendix, No. 1. Saint Lucia Union, 27 January 1848. Sir, As guardian of the general welfare of the inhabitants of these colonies, your Excellency Sugar Planting. will not, I respectfully presume, consider me intrusive, but kindly and indulgently he pleased to give a hearing to the most humble of Her Majesty's subjects, and suffer me to lay before ST. LUCIA. your Excellency a statement of my grievances; and if my unhappy lot is shared by thousands of individuals in your Government, that fact only adds force to the reasons for . Ends, in No. 1. bringing them directly under your notice.

Not to be tedious to your Excellency, I will only premise that the statement I am about to make is no speculative case, but a bona fide narrative of facts, which can be sustained by vouchers. The Union estate, of which I am the proprietor, is one of the largest and best plantations in this island. I am besides the lessee of two others, viz. Richefond and Lacaille, and am also agent for several other proprietors. But it is only with regard to the three first, in which I am more directly interested, that I purpose to trouble your Excellency. From these three estates I shipped, in 1847, a crop of 412 casks of sugar, which, on an average of 14 cwts., amounts to 5,768 cwts. Upon this quantity of sugar the Government received, at 14 s. per cwt., the sum of 4,037 I. 12 s. sterling as duties. Your Excellency will probably imagine, that if the Government received duties upon this quantity of sugar, to the amount of 4,037 I. 12 s. sterling, I, as the producer, must have received at least a proportionate sum to defray the expense of production, and compensate my labour and outlay of money. Unfortunately, however, this has not been the case. The average price of the sugar in question at the home market was 36 s. per cwt., against which, if you add s. d. Freight To cover charges and insurance

Customs duty

- 14

Cost of production

- 16

Colonial duty

--6 38

6 per cent.

causing a loss of 2s. 6 d. per cwt.; so that, without considering incidental expenses, such as for repairs of works, purchase of cattle, &c., my loss upon the said quantity of sugar has been 7211, sterling; and thus, whilst the Government has received 4,037 I. 12 s. sterling, not one farthing reverts to me for the maintenance of my family, nor even to pay expenses incurred in the producing of that sugar, but I am now brought into debt for the advances, and obliged to mortgage my property, which, from other resources, I heretofore kept liquid. Now, everything is swallowed up, and I am entirely at the mercy of creditors, without the prospect of being able to pay, without the means of carrying on the cultivation of the estates, nay, without the means of subsistence for myself and family. Yes, your Excellency, on the 22d instant, I was compelled to grant a mortgage for 1,250/. sterling to the manager of the Colonial Bank, being advances made me on promissory notes, to cultivate my estates, of which sum 200 I. were for colonial taxes. The Tax Ordinance for 1847 obliged the colonial treasurer to take notes for certain duties, and a note of 200 I. for such duties is included now in the mortgage taken against me. Thus I have laboured simply to pay customs' duties into the treasury of the mother country, and am compelled to mortgage all I possessed because I cannot pay the cost of production. With what force do the lines of the great Latin poet, commencing " Sic vos non vobis," See. apply here; indeed, the simile of bees and sheep even fails to represent the extent of our grievances. Far be it from me to pretend to such a knowledge of political economy as to call in question the policy of Her Majesty's Ministers on the subject; but I would simply submit to your Excellency that, leaving them to choose a more equitable mode of taxing the produce of the West India planters, it is grevious beyond expression to contemplate that any fixed rate of duties should be determined upon without regard to the profits of the producer. Any other arrangement, save a duty in proportion to the profit of the producer cannot be equitable ; whilst such an arrangement would identify the Government with the prosperity of the colonies, confidence would be restored, and, in proportion to the prosperity of the colonies, so would the revenue increase. If it is argued that such an arrangement is difficult, yet ought the difficulty to be considered, when equity requires an abandonment of the present principle? Are British statesmen now to be told how such trifling difficulties are to be met and overcome? Your Excellency is aware of the outcry raised in England against the Income Tax. Yet can there be any comparison made between us, when everything is taken from us, 3 c 2 0.32. and

380 Appendix, No. 1. Sugar Planting. ST. LUCIA. Ends, in No. 1.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

and we are left to starve ? What would the London merchant or mechanic say, if the whole amount of his sales were claimed by the tax-gatherer before he paid his expenses of production ? With all due respect, let me ask your Excellency, is not this precisely our case ? We would esteem ourselves happy if one-half of what we earned was taken from us; but to take all, and leave us in debt for the cost, and to perish, never was contemplated. Government will, shall, I say must, make alterations to relieve the West India planter in future; but will this relief extend to me and others who have already suffered, or only benefit those who may purchase our now insolvent estates ? Our case is, indeed, one of harrowing distress. Sir Walter Scott pathetically says, " Hard toil can roughen form and face, And want can quench the eye's bright grace ; Nor does old age a wrinkle trace More deeply than despair." I must candidly confess to your Excellency that despondency has quite taken possession of all my energy. I know that if I complained of injury done me by any private party (the injury was not intended, I allow), I should meet with sympathy, probably redress; but to complain of the operation of a Government measure is not the same. Such is the experience of parties on this subject, that in many it will provoke a smile, that I should have even thought of obtaining relief. However, is my case less affecting ? Courage had, indeed, now failed me to make any stir in the matter, did I not know the magnanimity of your Excellency's character, and that your only object is the good of the people committed to your care. I have, therefore, no other resource than that of appealing to your Excellency as the party charged by Ministers to work out their policy; and with every excuse for the trouble I have given, I have, &c. His Excellency Colonel Reid, Governor-in-Chief, &c. &c. See.

(signed)

Melcher G. Todd.

Sir, Government Office, 28 January 1848. I AM directed by his Excellency the Lieutenant-governor to inform you that he will, in accordance with your wish, forward your letter addressed to the Governor-in-chief by the next mail, although his Excellency is of opinion that any communication of a public character, not addressed to the Secretary of State himself, but the subject-matter of which is intended to be brought before Her Majesty's Ministers, should be addressed to the Lieutenant-governor in the first instance, and not to the Governor-in-Chief, as the arrangement by which the Lieutenant-governor acts in subordination to the Governor-in-Chief does not alter the position of the former as the head of the local executive, when the Governor-int Chief is not in the island. If your representation were an appeal against proceeding or decision of his Excellency, the case would be different, and your communication would properly be addressed to the Governor-in-Chief, though forwarded through him. His Excellency would be obliged by your furnishing, for the purpose of record, a duplicate copy of your letter, which his Excellency desires me to assure you that he has not perused without sincere sympathy for the case of personal misfortune which it describes. I have, &c. Wm. Hanley, (signed) Colonial Secretary and Treasurer.

The Honourable M. G. Todd, &c. &c. &c. (True copy.)

(signed) Wm. Hanley, Colonial Secretary and Treasurer.

(True copies.) (signed)

E. Hore, Private Secretary.

785 SELECT

COMMITTEE

SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

381

WEST INDIA—EMIGRATION. SCHEDULE.

JAMAICA. PAGE

Return of the Immigration into Jamaica from the 1st August 1834 to the 31st December 1847, as far as known

- 383

BRITISH GUIANA. Return of the Immigration into British Guiana from the 1st August 1834 to the 31st December 1847, as far as known 383 TRINIDAD. Return of the Immigration into Trinidad from the 1st August 1834 to the 30th June 1847, as far as known

- 384

JAMAICA. No. 1. Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey. Earl Grey to Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey. 3. Governor the Right hon. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

Sir C.

4. Earl Grey to Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey. 5. Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey. 6. Herman Merivale, Esq., to the Land and Emigration Commissioners. 7. Governor the Right hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

DATE.

SUBJECT.

PAGE

7 June 1847 (No. 59.)

Transmits a Memorial from the Chamber of Commerce, Kingston, urging further Measures for promoting Emigration from the Coast of Africa to Jamaica - 384 20 July 1847 Acknowledges the above; with regard to the suggestion (No. 73.) as to procuring Emigrants by redemption of Captives or otherwise, the Government can by no means adopt the views of Memorialists 386 23 Oct 1847 States the probability of the Island Legislature making no (No. 105.) further Grant for the importation of Coolie Labourers, and recommends the suspension of African Immigration for the present.—Report of Agent-general for Immigration, with Appendices (A.) to (0.) 387 14 Jan. 1848 Acknowledges the above. Immigration will be suspended. (No. 129.) Remarks in reference to the Report of the Immigration Agent 408 22 Nov. 1847 Disposal of the Balances of Funds in hands of the (No. 115.) Commissioners of Land and Emigration, remitted for Immigration purposes 409 7 Jan. 1848 The same subject. No further liabilities to be incurred on account of Emigration to Jamaica ... -409

7 Jan. 1848 (No. 6.)

Forwards Report from the Acting Agent-general for Immigration, containing an analysis of communications relative to the conduct and condition of Coolie Immigrants 409

BRITISH GUIANA. '• Governor Light to Earl Grey

2 June 1847

Transmits Correspondence and Documents relative to the arrival of the Barque " Prince Regent " from the Kroo Coast, with 108 Immigrants 412 22 July 1847 Reasons for refusing sanction to any arrangement for the (No. 206.) conveyance of African Emigrants in private ships not under charge of some person specially appointed by - 415 Government 3 July 1847 Proceedings taken inconsequence of a communication from (No. 136.) Land and Emigration Commissioners restricting the Emigration from Madeira, on account of the great mortality among the Emigrants. Causes to which the mortality is attributable - 416 14 July 1847 Forwards Acting Immigration Agent-general's and Health Officer's Reports of the arrival of the " Senhora da (No. 145.) Conceiçao " and the " Loyal" with Emigrants from Madeira.—Remarks on the working of the Passengers ----- 416 Act 16 July 1847 Immigration from Madeira; Reasons against checking it; (No. 150.) Improved circumstances of the Immigrants.—Encloses Report from a Committee of the Court of Policy on Letter of Land and Emigration Commissioners, recommending a restriction of Emigration from Madeira.— Ordinance to provide Medical Attendance and Medicines for Immigrant Labourers 420 7 Oct. 1847 Encloses two Reports from Land and Emigration Com(No. 232.) missioners on subject of preceding Despatch. Assents to continued Emigration from Madeira for the present 427 (continued) 3 C 3 (No. 112.)

2. Earl Grey to Governor Light

3. Governor Light to Earl Grey

4. Governor Light to Earl Grey

5. Governor Light to Earl Grey

Earl Grey to Governor Light 32.

382

APPENDIX TO THIRD

No.

DATE.

SUBJECT.

Earl Grey to Governor Light

Governor Light to Earl Grey

13 Aug. 1847 (No. 158.)

10.

Earl Grey to Governor Light

16 Oct. 1847 (No. 238.)

11. Governor Light to Earl Grey

16 Aug. 1847. (No. 1C4.)

Earl Grey to Governor Light

14 Dec. 1847 (No. 263.)

12.

July 1847 (No. 194.)

July 1847 (No. 195.)

13. Governor Light to Earl Grey

14.

Governor Light to Earl Grey

15.

Earl Grey to Governor Light

Jan. 1848. (No. 281.)

16.

Earl Grey to Governor Light

Feb. 1848 (No. 283.)

17.

Governor Light to Earl Grey

Aug. 1847 (No. 174.)

Sept. 1847 (No. 177.)

Jan. (No.

1848 7.)

ST.

1. Earl Grey to Governor Reid

REPORT FROM THE

Earl Grey to Governor Reid

Governor Reid to Earl Grey

Earl Grey to Governor Reid

Governor Reid to Earl Grey

Mar. (No.

12.)

May (No.

17.)

May (No.

22.)

VINCENT.

1847

May 1847 (No. 25.) Aug.

1847

July 1847 (No. 31.)

Sept. 1847 (No. 36.)

Disease and mortality among Immigrants from Madeira; directs inquiry into the causes, and whether any preventive regulations can be devised .443 Accounts having reached the Colonial Office of a like mortality among Madeira Immigrants in British Guiana and Trinidad, directs such measures to be taken as the law will allow for stopping the Bounty on importation of Immigrants from Madeira during the unhealthy months 443 Transmits copy of a Letter he had addressed to the Lieutenant-governor of St. Vincent's, directing inquiries to be made on the subject of disease and mortality said to have occurred among Immigrants - 443 In reference to precedingDespatch,forwards Reports made by Commissioners appointed by the Lieutenant-governor to inquire into the salubrity of Estates in St. Vincent's, and the mortality among the Madeira Emigrants - 444 Acknowledging the preceding Despatch, approves proceedings of the Lieutenant-governor. Upon the whole the accounts are satisfactory ----- 457 Encloses a Letter from the Lieutenant-governor, stating his intention of bringing under notice of the Colonial Legislature the propriety of restricting the importation of Emigrants to certain months in the year considered ----- 458 most favourable to health Reports the contented and healthy condition of Portuguese immigrants in St. Vincent's; their numbers are about 2,000 45"

GRENADA. 1. Governor Reid to Ear! Grey

Aug. 1847 (No. 2C,)

PAGE

Measures adopted for promoting Coolie Emigration to British Guiana and Trinidad Report by Land and Emigration Commissioners on same subject - 429 Transmits further Report of Land and Emigration Commissioners on arrangements made for conveyance of Coolie Emigrants to the West Indies - 43° Arrival of the " Growler'' with Emigrants from Sierra Leone; their condition ; great mortality during voyage. Steps taken to facilitate the return home of Africans who may desire to leave the Colony - 431 Forwards Report of Land and Emigration Commissioners in reference to the mortality on board the " Growler" described in preceding Despatch - 432 Transmits Resolutions passed by the Court of Policy for empowering Loan Commissioners to raise Funds necessary for Immigration purposes - 432 In reply, encloses copy of a Letter from Immigration Commissioners, stating terms on which they have raised a Loan of 90,000 l.; and copy of a Letter directing them to raise a further sum of 90,000 L. - 433 Emigration from the Coast of Africa. Measures for facilitating the return home of African Emigrants; difficulties in the way. Desire of heads of Tribes in the Kroo country to traffic in the profits of Emigrants. Letter from Governor of Sierra Leone, and other Documents, in relation to this subject - 435 Transmits Return for half-year ending 30 June, showing Centesimal Proportion of Deaths amongst the Troops and Emigrants in British Guiana .439 In reference to Despatch of 14 December last, encloses Letter from Loan Commissioners stating their inability, under present circumstances,to raise the moneyfor Guiana 44° Transmits copy of a Despatch to the Governor of Jamaica, and of a Letter from the Colonial Office to the Treasury, respecting the encouragement of Emigration from the Coast of Africa to the West Indies. Vessels chartered 441 for the purpose Encloses Custom house Return of Produce shipped from British Guiana in 1847, with comparative Return for 1846.—Effect of the large introduction of Immigrants.— Desirableness of an improved system of Drainage - 441

Transmits Despatch from the Lieutenant-governor and Memorial from the House of Assembly of Grenada, praying to be permitted to share in the advantages of 459 African Immigration

787 SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. No.

DATE.

Earl Grey to Governor Reid-

3. Governor Reid to Earl Grey -

Nov. 1847 (No. 37.)

12 Oct. 1847 (No. 40.)

383

SUBJECT.

PAGE.

Reply, that it is not intended to place Grenada on a less favourable footing than other West India Colonies; but that the experiment will be tried at first as to one or two Colonies only 460 Encloses Despatch from Lieutenant-governor, stating his intention of proposing to the Colonial Legislature to withhold the Bounty on Immigrants from Madeira in vessels clearing from that port from April to September inclusive—Correspondence and Documents in relation to the mortality which has prevailed among the Portu.... 460 guese emigrating from Madeira

WEST INDIA.—EMIGRATION. JAMAICA. RETURN of the

1834.

"hence Emigrating.

IMMIGRATION

18S5.

1836.

in Jamaica, from the 1st August 1834 to the 31st December 1847, as far as known.

1837.

1838.

1839.

Canada UnitedIndies States West Sierra Leone St Helena Mudera. &c. East Indies Great Britain Germany TOTAL

1840.

1841.

1842.

1843.

1844.

25 223 3 110 71 161 91 315

1845.

35 255

1846.*

1847 to 30 Sept.

127

TOTAL.

170 258 841

* No complete return.

BRITISH GUIANA. RETURN of the

Whence Emigrating.

IMMIGRATION

1834.

1835.

into British Guiana from the 1st August 1834 to 31st December 1837, as far as known.

1836.

1837.

1838.

1839.

1840.

1841.

1842.

837

2,199

41 176 25

4 10

91 127 3 14

1843.

1844.

1845.

1846.

1847.

GRAND TOTAL.

British, West India and Bahama Islands:

St. Vincent Lucia St. ..... Dominica

Antigua

183 88 48 65 356 21

Tobago

157

St. Kitts Anguilla

1 293 52 62 43

2 88 219 1 2 40 46

148 99

47 259

555

357

167

41 4,173 113 607 379 157 227 294 470 480 641

2 122 32 21 52 37

255

British Possessions in India or elsewhere: 583 233

406

415

1,112 148

4,312 678

348 563

86 239

378

1,425

1,513 1,780 2,506 1,779 819 10 278 457 Kroo Coast, 108

4,282 4,518 2,027 3,448

foreign Possessions: St.

Thomas. . . . St. Bartholomew's St. Eustatius -

4 707 2

143

252 132

91 58 388

156

4 I

Stated

0.32.

1,124

1,795

1,910

192

876

16 298

429

Surinam

TOTAL

19 18

143 31

586

3 C 4

8,096

2,655

140 145

31 112

255

650

918

668

5,975

3,755

105 1,166 33 15,672 1,377 345 1,186

3,631

11,519

7,719

41,741

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

384

TRINIDAD. RETURN of the

IMMIGRATION

into Trinidad, from the 1st August 1834 to 30th June 1847, as far as known.

1834 Whence Emigrating.

1847 1839.

1840.

1841.

1842.

1843.

1844.

1845.

1846*.

1838.

United States -

West Indies

314

909

692

1,106

1,719

1,956

2,075

1,708

170

514

476

246

402

289

2,872

2,843

2,530

Rio de Janeiro Sierra Leone

990

504 *

East Indies TOTALS

TOTAL

1,006

2,015

1,952

No return

1,301

No return

10,246

No return

556

420

Madeira St. Helena

to 30 June.

1,826 379

467

100

231

1,082

225

2,456

1,750

4,431

1,635

2,935

2,121

19,909

* No complete return received.

Appendix, No. 1.

JAMAICA.

JAMAICA. No. 1. Right Hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

Memorial, 5 June 1847.

COPY

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 1.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 59.) of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

King's House, Jamaica, 7 June 1847, My Lord, (Received 9 July 1847.) I HAVE the honour to lay before your Lordship a memorial addressed to your Lordship by the Chamber of Commerce of Kingston in this island. It seems to be the principal object of the memorialists to impress strongly upon your Lordship's mind the expediency of promoting immigration from the coast of Africa, and to urge the adoption of some novel measures for obtaining more copious supplies of labourers from that quarter. In aid of their representations, I observe that the memorialists have adduced some expressions of mine, which I believe are correctly given, and which were employed by me upon a public occasion during a visit which I lately made to the parish of St. Thomas-in-the-East but which lasted only four days. I had previously sufficient proof that nothing but supplies of African labourers will in any degree content the planters of Jamaica, and I thought it a favourable opportunity for associating and connecting in the minds of those whom I had to address the prospect of accomplishing their object with the conditions on which I should think their success desirable; and undoubtedly if the African immigrant should usually find himself placed here in circumstances equally happy with those of the immigrant labourers of the Golden Grove Estate, to which my remarks were known to have reference, I should regard it as a blessing on the negro race that the means of exchanging the oppressions and barbarities of their own country for the lot of a free labourer in a British colony should be afforded them to the utmost extent which might be consistent with the security of their freedom. For that purpose I should be glad, if it were to be compatible with the convenience and the views of Her Majesty's Government, to establish places of refuge and safety on the African coast to which the negroes of the interior might easily resort, but I must express my entire dissent from the suggestions of the memorialists, that prisoners of war should be procured as immigrants by payment of ransom for them to their captors. 'I he greatest difficulty which I foresee, and which, in some degree, I experience in my attempts to put the immigration system on a sound footing, and into a wholesome state, is the impression which some planters have got, that the outlay of public money in effecting immigration gives either to the planter or to the Government a sort of property in the labourer, which might justify such coercive exaction of labour in repayment of this purchase-money as it would be difficult in any way to reconcile with substantial, or even nominal freedom. The statement of the memorialists, that 345,0001, have been voted in Jamaica for purposes of immigration since 1839, might, without explanation, give rise to some misapprehension. There may have been in that period successive votes for sums which, added together, would nearly come to that amount, but before these grants have been expended or appropriated, they have in so many instances been superseded and stopped by the succeeding new grant, that the sums actually expended on immigration between the 1st of January 1840

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

385

1840 and the 1st of May 1847, are stated by the agent-general for immigration to have been in the whole only 152,538 l., the number of immigrants from all parts of the world having been 9,273. Having observed in the additional correspondence on African immigration which your Lordship forwarded to me in the despatch, Jamaica (No. 34), 16 March 1847, that the Commissioners of Land and Emigration recommended that a deposit of 2,000/. each should be required from Guiana and Trinidad to cover the expenses of agency on the coast of Africa, and other necessary incidental charges, I have requested the receiver-general to arrange his remittances so as to provide a surplus to that amount beyond what is required for Coolie immigration; and I reckon that there will still be available before the next meeting of the Assembly, for the payment of 10/. for each individual African immigrant, a sum of about 8,000/. As an earnest of the desire of the Home Government to meet the wishes of the colony, I think it very desirable that we should have a supply of African labourers to nearly that extent, and within the next three months, if possible.

789 Appendix, No. 1. JAMAICA. No. 1. Right Hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

Sec Parl. Paper, No. 325, of 1847, page 26.

I have, &c. (signed) Charles Edward Grey.

Enclosure in No. 1. End. in No. 1. Right Honourable Earl Grey, Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the To the Colonies. The Humble MEMORIAL of the Chamber of Commerce of Kingston, Jamaica, Showeth, THAT whilst your memorialists observe with satisfaction the enlarged views which Her Majesty's Government has taken on the subject of emigration from the coast of Africa to the British West India colonies, your memorialists see with regret that Jamaica is destined to be amongst the last of the colonies to profit by the means which Her Majesty's Government has thought fit to adopt for the purpose of carrying out those views. That there is no colony which has exhibited more readiness to promote the introduction of that free labour, so absolutely necessary to its agricultural prosperity, than the island of Jamaica, whilst there is none that has profited so little from the large sums of money voted by the legislature for immigration purposes, amounting in the aggregate, since the year 1839, to the sum of 345,000 l. That whilst Demerara and Trinidad have received large accessions to their labouring population, to the extent in the former settlement of nearly doubling that population, Jamaica has, from deficient agencies, or from other causes over which we have no control, been tardily and scantily supplied with immigrants, and those principally of a character unsuited to her wants. That every consideration, rational as well as moral and humane, points to Africa as the source from which the deficiency of labour so destructively experienced in these colonies should be supplied, and that without regard to the bounds or limits within which the means of procuring immigrants are now prescribed. That the present effect of the measures adopted by Great Britain for the suppression of the slave trade, has been found to be increased suffering to the unhappy victim when embarked on board the slave ship, or death and mutilation in the event of a too successful vigilance on the part of Her Majesty's cruisers; an event which has received an awful illustration in the reported cold-blooded murder of 2,000 unhappy beings at Palma, near the River Lagos, as the consequence of a capture by Her Majesty's vessels of the slavers which were destined for their export. That were steps taken by Her Majesty's Government, not merely to sweep away as at present the piratical vessels employed in the slave trade, but to provide means of transport for the thousands of slaves brought down by native princes for sale and shipment to the foreign trader, the cause of humanity and religion would be eminently served, whilst the slave trade would speedily perish for want of supply. That however objectionable it might appear, on a superficial consideration, to lend anything like encouragement to the system of slavery which at present exists in Africa, yet that experience and reason show that so long as the demand for slaves shall exist in foreign countries, so long will Africa afford the supply; and that whilst external vigilance on the part of Great Britain may diminish to a considerable extent the number of human beings actually and eventually committed to slavery in Cuba and Brazil, still a large number must and do escape that vigilance ; the sufferings of these latter being aggravated both on the coast and on board the slaver. That your memorialists verily believe, that the most if not the only effectual method of abolishing not merely the slave trade, but slavery itself, would, in connexion with the present active measures, adopted by the Government through its naval force, be to negotiate with the native princes of Africa to allow and promote the emigration of their subjects, also to ransom their prisoners of war, and in lieu of the noxious and gorged slave ship, to afford the victim of savage cupidity the accommodation of a ventilated and comfortable British emigrant ship, thereby providing for his manumission, and changing his lot from one of perpetual slavery to the happy condition of a free Christian denizen of a British colony. That your memorialists point with satisfaction to the condition of Africans now resident as labourers in this island, who have been rescued from slavery by Her Majesty's ships and 0.32. those 3D

386

APPENDIX TO THIRD

REPORT FROM THE

those imported, and who now present the grateful picture of happy and contented free British subjects, alive to the obligations of Christianity, intent in devotion, availing themEmigration. selves of local and charitable schools for the instruction of their children in temporal and spiritual knowledge; and your memorialists pray Her Majesty's Government to contrast this JAMAICA. picture with that which presents itself on the coast of Africa, and to weigh the eternal blessings which such a change of condition must of necessity produce, with the temporary Encl. in No. 1. evils which indeed must under any circumstances exist, so long as the foreign demand for slaves shall continue, which may be supposed to follow from direct negotiations with the slave dealers of the coast, for the purchase of their human merchandize. I bat your memorialists, in order to show that their representation of the emancipated Africans in this colony is not overcharged, beg leave to call your Lordship's attention to the following observations made by his Excellency Sir Charles Edward Grey, immediately after he had been afforded an opportunity of personally witnessing the condition of this portion of our labouring population. " It may," observed his Excellency, " be perhaps of more importance that this visit has removed from my mind all doubt as to its being my duty to recommend to Her Majesty's Government at home, that by all the means at their command, they should promote the free immigration of labourers from the coast of Africa. " fhe efficiency, Mr. Custos, of the African labourers employed by your honour, their unmistakeable air of contentment and cheerfulness, their orderly demeanor and intelligence, their willing observance of religious rites and attendance at church worship, and the quickness with which their children attain the rudiments of education in the school provided for them, have fully satisfied me, not only that by the influx of immigrants from Africa all that is wanted here in the way of labour may be supplied, but that it may be supplied without the slightest disturbance of social relations or order; and with so vast an improvement, physical, moral, intellectual and religious, of the condition of the immigrants themselves, that it may be regarded almost as a transition to another life and another world. Of these facts I am confident nothing can be required but personal examination and inspection, to convince the most decided and most ardent adversary of slavery. " It is the opportunity I have myself had of observing these facts; it is my knowledge of its being the desire and intention of Her Majesty's Ministers to do everything for the benefit of these colonies which is consistent with the general welfare of the empire; it is, above all, my perception and conviction of the resident proprietors and planters having acquired a full sense of their obligations and duties towards the people, and of their having come to the conclusion that strict justice is due to the labourer as well as to the employer, and that their interests are mutual and dependent on each other, that make me confident of the rapid growth of your prosperity." That your memorialists feel they need add nothing to evidence so complete in support of the moral as well as the practical results of African immigration to Jamaica, and they would therefore direct the attention of Government to the fact that the Legislature of this colony has appropriated a sum of money to the immediate purpose of enabling this colony to benefit to that extent in the advantages which may result from the experimental mission of Her Majesty's steamer " Growler" to the coast of Africa, humbly praying Her Majesty's Government that Jamaica, not the least important of Her Majesty's colonies in these seas, may not be the last considered in a measure of such vital importance to her best interests'; and your memorialists sincerely trust that the experiments to be made by that vessel may be speedily followed up by an extensive scheme of African immigration under the auspices of Her Majesty's Government. That as an illustration of the value of the immigration of emancipados to Jamaica, your memorialists would instance one example among many, in the fact that an estate within a few miles of the populous city of Kingston has been entirely dependent on these immigrants for the continuous labour necessary to secure its crop. That your memorialists need hardly impress on Her Majesty's Government the capability of the island of Jamaica to increase her present productions threefold, were the supply of labour adequate to such an increase ; but that so long as the labour market shall continue destitute of supply, so long will it be impracticable for the colonist to attempt to extend his cultivation from the impossibility of securing a larger crop. That your memorialists respectfully urge on the consideration of your Lordship, that there is no colony in the British West Indies of greater importance to the British Crown, whether as regards the commerce or the policy of the nation, whilst there is none more capable of making a grateful return to the parent Government for any aid it may afford to her in her efforts to restore her former prosperity, and which your memorialists submit can most successfully be obtained by extensive African immigration. And your memorialists, as in duty bound, will ever pray, See. See. Appendix, No. 1. -

Kingston, 5 June 1847.

No. 2. Earl Grey to the Right Hon. Sir C. E. Grey.

Hector Mitchel, President.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 2. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 73.) EXTRACT of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey, dated 20 July 1847. " I HAVE received your despatch, No. 59, of the 7th June, enclosing a memorial which bad been addressed to me by the Chamber of Commerce of Kingston, urging the adoption of further measures to promote emigration from the coast of Africa to Jamaica, and also the

early

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387

early extension to Jamaica of the benefits to be derived from the measures already taken to Appendix, No. 1. promote emigration from the Kroo coast. Emigration. " With regard to the latter object, you are aware that the measures taken are purely experimental, and it was for the advantage of all the colonies that the experiment should be JAMAICA. made in the manner most likely to secure success, which was by confining the first operations to the nearest colonies. No. 2. " With regard to the suggestion that Her Majesty's Government should permit an Earl Grey to the unrestricted resort to any part of the African coast to procure emigrants by the redemption Right Hon. of captives or otherwise, I have to state, that with every disposition to encourage free immi- Sir C. E. Grey. gration from Africa, and with a full sense of the benefits to be conferred by it, both on the colonies and on the immigrants, and still more, perhaps, on the latter than the former, Her Majesty's Government can by no means adopt the views taken by the memorialists. On the contrary, they are persuaded that the memorialists would, themselves, have renounced those views, had they inquired into the history of the slave trade sufficiently to be aware of the consequences which might be expected to follow. The existence of interested motives for producing Africans on the coast has always been a provocation to war and outrage in the interior, and no benefits to be conferred upon the persons released could justify a manner of proceeding tending to bring others into captivity, and to do so through those barbarous courses by which such purposes are effected in Africa.'

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 3.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 105.) COPY of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

Right Sir

No. 3. Hon.

C. E.-Grey Grey.

Earl

King's House, Jamaica, 23 October 1847. My Lord, (Received 20 November 1847.) I HAVE the honour to lay before your Lordship a Report and Appendix, addressed to me by Charles Henry Darling, Esq., the agent-general for immigration. These documents Raport. 21 Oct. 1847. comprise all the detailed information which the agent-general has thought would be useful or interesting to Her Majesty's Government, respecting the immigrant labourers who have Appendix with Returns marked alphabeticaly from (A.) to (O.) arrived in Jamaica during the twelve months ending on the 30th September last; and they are so full, and I have so much confidence in the accuracy of the agent-general, that although the report was only received yesterday, I am unwilling to detain it for the purpose of adding any remarks of my own. I wish, however, to say, that I am strongly impressed with a conviction of the island being unable to afford to bring Coolies from the East Indies in such numbers as to give a general supply of labour throughout the island, and that this has now become so apparent, that I do not believe the Legislature will ever make another grant for the purpose. From some expressions, indeed, in the address of the Assembly, in reply to the Governor's speech at the opening of the present session, which has just been received, I am led to infer that there is no decided wish at present even for African immigrants, and I would consequently recommend that no new orders or directions by Her Majesty's Government, or by the Commissioners of Colonial Land and Immigration, for furnishing a supply of African labour to Jamaica, be given after the receipt of this despatch, unless some fresh application or request should be made by the Assembly. If any African immigrants should arrive here inconsequence of directions given before the receipt of this despatch, I shall have no difficulty in paying the cost, provided it be before the end of the current year. With respect to the cases mentioned in the report, in which Coolies have suffered destitution and disease without sufficient relief, and in two or three instances are supposed even to have died in consequence, the result of several inquiries has tended to show that the suffering parties have not been free from blame, and that their forlorn condition has been owing to their refusals to renew their contracts and to their vagrant habits; but there certainly appears to have been an impression in the island, that the parishes were not bound to support them like other poor, and that they were under the care of the agent-general. Upon this point, I obtained the opinion of the acting attorney-general, to the effect that no distinction can be made as to their title to relief, and that of any other labourers, and having given publicity to the opinion, I have not since received any fresh intimation of Coolies being left in a deserted condition. I have, &c. (signed) Charles Edward Grey.

Enclosure in No. 3. End. in No.

REPORT from the Agent-General for Immigration. Sir,

Immigration Office, 21 October 1847.

I Beg leave to present to your Excellency a report of the proceedings connected with the

Emigration service of this colony, for the year which terminated on the 30th ultimo. 0.32. 3 D 2

The

388 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. JAMAICA.

Encl. in No. 3.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

The total number of immigrants landed in the colony at the public expense, during that period, is 2,855; of these, ----From Cuba ----From St. Helena From India --------TOTAL

79 337

2,439 2,855

The details of sex, age, &c., are stated in a return which I have appended to this report, marked (A). s.

44,771 10

£.

The total amount drawn from the public treasury during the year, as will be seen by the statement (Appendix B.), is The amount of tax received from the first employers of African immigrants from St. Helena, ex the " Indus," (see Statement C.), is The balance in my hands on the 30th September 1846, was And the balance in the Colonial Bank in London, at the same date, . was Making a Sum Total of -

- £,

544 - 229 19 6 3/4 963

Amounting in all to

----- £.

46,508 12

52 18

8 1/2

876 12

9 1/2

£.

After deducting from which—Balance in my hands on the 30th Sep----tember 1847 Balance in Colonial Bank in London on 27th June last, as per last account received ---------In the Bank of England, being the difference between the sum of 36,300 l., the amount remitted to meet the demand for Coolie passage money, and 33,016Z. 3s. 6d., the amount for which certificates have -----been granted by the Agent-general

3,283 16

4,213

There remains the sum of forty-two thousand two hundred and ninety-five pounds four shillings and three farthings (42,295 Z. 4 s. 03/4 d.), being the amount actually expended the service of immigration during the year. Of the total amount drawn from the public treasury (forty-four thousand seven hundred and seventy-one pounds ten shillings and four-pence (44,771 Z. 10 s. 4 d.) as stated above), forty thousand one hundred and ninety-nine pounds nine shillings and four-pence (40,199 l. 9 s. 4 d.) was the balance of the sum of seventy thousand pounds (70,000 l) appropriated to immigration purposes by the Act 9 Vict. c. 15, and remaining in the treasury on the 30th September 1846; and four thousand five hundred and seventy-two pounds one shilling and a halfpenny (4,572 l. 1 s. 0 1/2 d.) has been supplied from the fund of thirty thousand pounds (30,0001.) placed at your Excellency's disposal for immigration purposes, by the Act 10 Vict. c. 35; thus leaving of this latter fund the sum of twentyfive thousand four hundred and twenty-seven pounds eighteen shillings and eleven-pence halfpenny (25,427 Z. 18s. 11 § d.) untouched on the 30th September l ast. The amount of taxes payable by the employers of Coolies, and for which accounts have been issued for the three quarters terminating on the 28th June last, is four thousand, and fourteen pounds (4,014 l.) Not having yet received the returns from the several estates for the quarter ending 28th September last, I am unable to include the amount for that quarter in this statement. In my last report I stated that the receiver-general had not at that time apprised me of any cases in which the parties charged were in default of payment; but I now regret to report, that in the early part of the present year that officer found it necessary to forward to me a list of defaulters, to whom I immediately made personal and private application to settle their accounts. This course was, except in three instances, successful, and the greater portion of the outstanding amount was paid into the public treasury. In the month of July last, however, the receiver-general forwarded to me a further list of parties who were then in default of their tax accounts up to the 28th March last, and I lost no time in making both private and official application to the parties concerned, intimating my intention of proceeding against them as required by law, in the event of their persisting in nonpayment. In a few instances my appeal again proved successful; but I have been finally obliged to instruct the Crown solicitor to proceed for the recovery of six hundred and eighteen pounds ten shillings (618 l. 10 s.) Coolie tax unpaid up to the 28th March last. I have not yet been informed by the receiver-general of the amount which may remain unpaid for the quarter terminated on the 28th June last. I have also to report that I have been compelled, in a few instances, to direct proceedings to be taken against employers of Coolies who have failed to send in the quarterly return required

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

389

required by law, and who have persisted in not furnishing it, notwithstanding my repeated request to them to remedy their omission. The quarters from which immigrants have been introduced into the island at the public expense, during the past year, are Cuba, St. Helena, and the East Indies. Cuba.

St. Helena. In my last report I mentioned the arrival of the " Indus," on the 17th November 1846, with 347 African immigrants from St. Helena; but as the details of that report only extended to the 30th September of that year, I confined myself to a simple notice of the fact of their arrival. In fulfilment of an arrangement made under the authority of your Excellency's predecessor, the Earl of Elgin, these people were landed at Morant Bay, for distribution in certain districts of the parish of St. Thomas in the East, and the return (Appendix E.) shows the names of the parties to whom their services were assigned. The total amount of the passage-money paid to the owners of the " Indus" was one thousand eight hundred and twenty-eight pounds eighteen shillings and sixpence (1,8281. 18 s. 6 d.), and an account has since been rendered and paid, amounting to four hundred and fifty-one pounds sixteen shillings and sixpence (451 l. 16s. 6 d.) for clothing and bedding supplied at St. Helena, which with one hundred and thirty-eight pounds two shillings and eight-pence one farthing (138 l. 2 s. 8 1/4 d.) expenses in this Island, makes the total cost of their introduction two thousand four hundred and eighteen pounds seventeen shillings and eight pence one farthing (2,4181. 17 s. 8 1/4 d.) If from this be deducted the sum of five hundred and forty-four pounds (5441.), amount of tax paid by their first employers, it will be found that the average per capital cost of these immigrants to the public is only five pounds eleven shillings and three pence one farthing (5 l. lis. 3 1/4.). By a clause in the existing Immigration Law, 10 Vict. c. 35, it is provided that African children under 10 years of age, who either maybe or have been recently introduced into the island, and have no known parents therein, may be indented for five years, under the provisions of a certain Act of the island, intituled, " An Act to regulate the Apprenticeship of Minors." A large proportion of the immigrants by the " Indus" being of this description, and their employers having requested that the provision of the law may be brought into operation with respect to them, a form of indenture has been approved of by you Excellency, a copy of which is annexed (Appendix F.); and Mr. Ewart, the sub-agent and stipendiary magistrate of the district, has been directed to see that all the children by the " Indus," within the terms of the law, are indented to their respective employers. Knowing that these juvenile immigrants are justly esteemed more valuable than any other description of labourer whom we have hitherto succeeded in obtaining, as well from tile facility with which they are trained to the various descriptions of estates' labour, and the attachment which they readily conceive for their first employers when treated with kindness and consideration, as from the certainty that they will become a portion of the permanent population of the colony, I did not tail, in addressing the Colonial Secretary and emigration agent at St. Helena, to assure them that this colony is prepared to receive any number of immigrants of this class whom it might be in their power to forward from time to time, as captured slave vessels (the only source of supply) might be brought into that island. I cannot conclude this section of my report without stating, that, having visited in the course of the year most of the estates upon which the Africans by the " Indus" are settled, I was much pleased with their appearance, especially that of the young children, indicating as it did, what I have every reason to believe is the case, that great attention is paid to them hy their employers; and that from the latter I received but one unvarying statement as to the docility, usefulness, and good conduct of the children themselves. India. The number of immigrants received from India during the year, as already stated, is two thousand four hundred and thirty-three (2,433.) 3D3

Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. JAMAICA. Encl. in No. 3.

The number introduced from Cuba, as will be seen by the Return (A.), is 79, being 84 less than in the preceding year. The intercourse with the Havanna was for some time interrupted in consequence of the loss of the steamer " Tweed." Upon its re-establishment the transmission of the emancipados was resumed, but in smaller bodies even than last year. The Return (D.), appended to this report, will show your Excellency how these people have been disposed of. I have frequently received from the employers of immigrants of this description, who have been settled some time in the island, assurances that they maintain that character for efficiency and steadiness as labourers of which their good conduct in the earlier period of their residence gave a promise, which has thus been amply fulfilled.

0.32.

390 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. JAMAICA.

Encl. in No. 3.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Of these, 739 are from Calcutta, and 1,694 from Madras. 232 were landed 85 „ 751 ,, 510 „ 335 „ 520 „

---------------------

at at at at at at

Port Morant. Kingston. Old Harbour. Savannah la Mar. Falmouth. Lucea.

And the Return (G.) in the Appendix will show the names of the employers to whose service they were assigned, and of the estates on which they were located. In my last year's report, I adverted to the communication which had been forwarded by his Excellency Major-general Berkeley to the Secretary of State, with a view to preventing the despatch from India of a larger number of Coolies than would supply about 1,200 effective labourers; the total number for which I had, up to the 22d October 1846, received applications. The reply of the Secretary of State, which was communicated by your Excellency to the legislature in its last session, intimated that it would be scarcely possible, or at any rate inexpedient on the score of expense, to stop the arrangements then in progress with respect to the vessels taken up in London by the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners; but that the agents in India would be instructed not to dispatch any other vessels with Coolies for Jamaica. In the meantime, induced, I apprehend, by indications of more seasonable weather, and by the temporary high price of produce, particularly of rum, at the commencement of this year, many parties engaged in the conduct of estates came forward to secure the services of Coolie labourers ; and before the 1st of April last, I had applications for many more than there was reason to expect. Several parties, in the parishes of Clarendon Vere and St. James, have, however, been disappointed in their hope of obtaining labourers of this class, in consequence of the ships " Parland" and "Java," estimated to convey about six hundred and fifty (650) people, not having arrived. With respect to the former vessel, I have certain information, although not from an official source, that the master incurred his forfeiture, and proceeded to England with freight. As regards the "Java," I have no intelligence whatever; but I cannot suppose that, at this advanced period of the year, there is any probability of her arrival. I stated also in my last year's report, that it was then in contemplation of the local government to revert to the system of remunerating the Coolies by an entire money payment (the employer engaging to keep a supply of rice and ghee, or cocoa-nut oil, for sale, at a rate which should merely cover cost and charges), instead of continuing the practice, which had been experimentally adopted, of paying for their labour partly by money wages and partly by a ration of provisions. This mode was moreover objected to by Mr. Secretary Gladstone, upon the grounds stated in his despatch, No. 27, of the 30th April 1846, which has been laid before Parliament; " Part 2, Immigration of Labourers into the West Indies and Mauritius; ordered to be printed, 20 August 1846." And an extract of which I therefore annex.—Appendix (H.) The proposed change having in its general principle met with your Excellency's approbation, and being modified in some particulars by your Excellency's directions, was promulgated in a government notice, dated the 4th February last; of which, and of the form of contract adopted to embody the provisions of the amended regulations, I annex copies, Appendix (I.) and (K.), which render it unnecessary that I should here enter into any more minute detail. The sub-agents were enjoined to endeavour to influence the Coolies to enter into contracts upon the terms laid down; and although in some instances difficulties were experienced in consequence of the Coolies having, as they alleged, been informed by the agents in India that they were to receive food, lodging, and at least five rupees or 10 s. a month wages, they were at last persuaded to agree to the terms proposed, upon its being explained to them that they were calculated to be an equivalent to the allowances they appeared to expect. In the cases, however, of Coolies who had been already upwards of a year in the island, and whose first contracts had expired, the sub-agents failed in many instances in inducing them to accept these terms, or indeed to enter into contracts at all. Where any other terms were mutually agreed upon, the contracts to that effect have been witnessed and executed as usual by the sub-agent; but in cases where they have refused to enter into contracts at all, they have been left to pursue their own inclination. The total number, however, not under contract at present, does not exceed 230; and by far the greater portion of these are in the parish of Westmoreland. I cannot but apprehend, from the tenor of the remarks addressed to me by some of the present employers, that at the expiration of the subsisting contracts, many of these gentlemen will decline to renew them; and as it is very difficult to obtain employers, especially under the present system of taxation, for Coolies who, having been already in service, have been discarded as unprofitable servants (however readily they may be taken from the ship), the evil appears to be one which is likely to increase, and to bring with it very serious consequences, both of a social and financial nature. More than one instance, indeed, has occurred during the past year, to evince the necessity either of some special power being placed in the hands of the immigration authorities to provide for sick and destitute Coolies not under contract, or of some declaratory enactment

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ment by which the parochial authorities may be made fully aware that East Indian immi- Appendix, No. 1. grants, when sick and destitute, are entitled to the same care and relief as natives of the island, or as immigrants from other quarters of the world. Emigration. Your Excellency is aware that I am not presuming to put forward this view of the rights JAMAICA. of the Coolies upon my own authority, but that it is in accordance with the opinion of Mr. Attorney-general Edwards, upon a case laid before him by your Excellency's desire. The cases to which I more particularly allude are those of two Coolies, who died * Encl. in No. 3. ****** in both of which the coroner's jury returned verdicts to the effect that the deceased had died from want of the common necessaries of life and medical aid; adding, in the case of the Coolie named Basha, a severe, but I submit unmerited censure, upon Mr. Walsh, the sub-agent, who, they observe, had sufficient information of Basha's state to have provided for him. In the cases of both these Coolies, the contracts had expired. In the first, the deceased, Chittomaun, left the estate upon which he had been originally employed, and refusing the intervention of the sub-agent, went to Green Castle to seek employment for himself. He was there attacked by dysentery, and died in the Coolie village without having received any medical aid. In the second case, that of Basha, the Coolie had been employed on Green Castle estate, and although his contract had expired, had never absolutely quitted, but had frequently absented himself for a time. The gentleman in charge of the property had not renewed his contract, which expired on the 1st May, because the Coolie (I quote from the coroner's inquest), " had been for some time previous in a very emaciated state (an ulcerated leg), and was one of six which the " Whichso ;" so in sub-agent had appointed to the hospital at Port Maria; on the removal of the other original. Madras Coolies he was left behind, and has been wandering about the property ever since." A subsequent representation was made to Mr. Walsh, that Basha had not been sent to Port Maria; and a delay of some days appears to have occurred before a message was received by the book-keeper at Green Castle from Mr. Walsh, requesting that Basha might " be sent to the asylum or hospital at Anotto Bay; and in case of their refusing him, he would speak to the old woman at Port Maria to take him in." This message, it appears, was received by the book-keeper on the 31st May. Basha was not removed to Anotto Bay. On the 2d June he was reported to the book-keeper as " lying dead at the cooper's shop-door." The book-keeper "went down immediately, and saw him still breathing, but in the most miserable plight, covered with filth and flies." His state was communicated to the gentleman in charge of Green Castle, who, it appears by the inquest, did not direct that medical aid should immediately be sent for, but merely desired that the advice of Mr. Bond, a magistrate, and, I believe, clerk of the vestry of the parish of Metcalfe, should be taken, and a letter obtained from him authorizing the admission of the Coolie into the asylum or hospital. Mr. Bond appears to have stated, that it "would not do" to send the Coolie to the asylum if it was thought he would die upon the road, and advised that nourishment should be given to him, and every attention paid to him. It is stated that this advice was followed; but nourishment and attention at such an advanced stage of the disease were of little avail, and the Coolie died that night. In so far as Mr. Walsh's conduct is impugned by the verdict of the coroner's jury, I take leave to state the following facts, which will sufficiently speak for themselves. Mr. Walsh, who is the sub-agent for immigrants landed at Port Maria (where the Coolies in Metcalfe were all disembarked), resides at a distance of 30 miles from Green Castle estate; he is aware (having been on more than one occasion informed by me) that the immigration fund is not, as the law at present stands, applicable to the relief medical care, or removal from place to place of sick or destitute Coolies ; and he has no other fund whatever or resources at his disposal, as sub-agent of immigration. He had, indeed, some time previous to this event, submitted to me a proposal that he should be allowed to hire a depot for Coolies whose contracts had expired, and to maintain them until they were re-employed; but, for the reason already stated, without adverting to other objections, this suggestion could not, of course, be acted on. He had paid more than one visit to Green Castle, to endeavour to renew the contracts of the Coolies, and in the case of Basha he appears to have given specific directions that he should be removed to the hospital at Port Maria, together with five other Coolies from Green Castle estate. It was not till 13 days after Basha's contract had expired that Mr. Walsh was informed that he had not been so removed, and was still on Green Castle estate. It seems that no communication was recieved from Mr. Walsh at Green Castle, in consequence of this intimation, until the 31st of May, a period of 18 days after the message had been sent to him; but I must here remark, that it was not in Mr. Walsh's power to make any other or better arrangement than he had already made, viz. that the Coolie should be sent to Port Maria Hospital, with his fellow countrymen who were similarly situated with himself; and if the parties in charge of the estate were not sufficiently actuated by those motives which might be supposed to have their influence in the case of a sick and destitute foreign labourer who had been employed under contract to the estate for a year, no reiteration of Mr. Walsh's wishes was likely to induce them to remove the Coolie to the hospital. The five Coolies were removed at Mr. Walsh's own expense ; and in directin g their admission to the Port Maria Hospital, he must have acted as a magistrate, and not as a sub-agent of immigration, in which latter capacity he had no power or authority to give such directions. Having already stated to your Excellency the unfortunate circumstances of the wreck 0.32. of 3 D 4

392 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. JAMAICA. Encl. in No. 3.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

of the " Barossa," Coolie ship, when entering the harbour of Port Morant; it is perhaps unnecessary that I should do more than attach hereto a copy of my report to your Excellency on the occasion, which I have accordingly done ; Appendix (L.) . , Of the general efficiency and steadiness of the Coolies, as labourers, I regret to be oblige to make a less favourable report than on former occasions. There can be no doubt that vagrancy and consequent temporary destitution have increased. These evils have prevailed more conspicuously in the parishes of Westmoreland and St . Thomas-in-the-East, and I attribute their existence principally to the fact, that in the former parish about 200 Coolies have refused to be re-employed under contract, on the expiration of their first engagements, and that the Coolies landed in both parishes from the " Barossa and " Macedon" (Madras vessels) are an inferior and badly selected people, as compared with the other bodies of immigrants received from the same presidency. , With respect, however, to Coolies under contract, I must express my opinion, that t he the which employers generally have not availed themselves of that control over the Coolies, contract confers in cases where, being in health, he absents himself on working days fro111 his employer's service. A reference to the Return (M.) will show the total number of cases for breach of contract brought before the magistrates, and also presents a view of the state of crime amongst the Coolies, which I think your Excellency will consider highly favourable to them as a body. An opinion having been expressed by some of their employers, that the Coolies by the " Barossa" and " Macedon" had for the most part been unaccustomed to agricultural pursuits in India, I directed the sub-agents in whose districts they are located to ascertain personally from each Coolie the truth of this allegation. " From Mr. Sub-agent Cocking in Westmoreland, where the people by the " Macedon are settled, I have as yet been unable to obtain any report; but with respect to those by "Barossa," it appears that out of 324 Coolies, there are about 18 only who had not bee employed either in the cultivation of rice, or in some other branch of agriculture. These exceptions consisted principally of servants, comprising also four weavers, One barber, one shopkeeper, and a man who represents himself as having been employed m police. . As this is the last report which I shall have the honour of presenting to this Government, and as Coolie emigration has both commenced and terminated during my tenure of the office of agent-general, I have thought it desirable to place on record a general statement of the conexpenditure incurred in this branch of the service, and of such other statistical details nected with it as the records of my office afford.

I have accordingly prepared and attached to this report the statement marked (N.)>which is made up to as late a date, under its different heads, as the returns and other documents in my hands will admit of. . g While, however, this document shows the actual state of Coolie immigration, as affecting has been planter far the ascertaining how the public, it affords but imperfect means of benefited by the introduction of these people, as, out of the number of Coolies returned not alive on the 28th June last, I fear it is unquestionable that a considerable portion are giving effective aid to plantation labour, while some are in a state of utter idleness and sloth. The opinions upon this point of those who have employed Coolies, are so various, and even conflicting, that I find it impossible to come to any conclusion which I could satisfactorily offer as the result of my own inquiries; while, on the one hand, I have met with employers who express their intention not to renew contracts with the Coolies now in then service, or to be hampered with their presence on their estates, I could, on the other, enumerate many instances, in which, although admitting them to be an expensive class of ta labourers, gentlemen in charge of properties have declared that they could not have off their crops this year without the aid derived from Coolie labour. Perhaps the most satisfactory statement I have yet seen is contained in a letter Mr. Henry Brockett, who is himself the employer of about 188 Coolies, on estates in parish of Hanover, and I have accordingly annexed a copy of Mr. Brockett's letter, Appendix (O.) for your Excellency's information. If to ascertain the real value of Coolie labour be now deemed an object of importance, I respectfully submit to your Excellency my opinion, that, considering the many facts investigation, which must affect the question, and which can only be ascertained by close Govern no sound conclusion can be arrived at but through the inquiries either of a commission, or a committee of either branch of the Legislature. To His Excellency the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey, G. c. H., Governor, &c. See. Sec.

I have, &c. (signed) C. H. Darling, A. G.I

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

393

797 Appendix, No 1. Emigration. JAMAICA. End, in No. 3.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

394 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration.

Appendix (B.)

JAMAICA. STATEMENT of the Amount drawn from the Public Treasury for purposes of End. in No. 3.

IMMIGRATION,

from 1st October 1846 to the 30th September 1847.

DATE.

1846: 1 October 3 December

Darling, Agentgeneral. William Cox, Master of the barque " Indus." C.

—

Deputy Commissarygeneral.

—

Deputy Commissarygeneral.

1847: 5 January

Deputy Commissarygeneral.

—

19 February

9 March

H. Darling, Agentgeneral. John Edwards, Receiver-general. C.

W. A. agent.

Bell,

Sub-

—

Deputy Commissarygeneral.

—

John Edwards, Receiver-general.

9 April 20 May -

FOR WHAT SERVICE.

TO WHOM PAID.

C. H. Darling,

Agentgeneral. John Edwards, Receiver-general.

—

John Edwards, Receiver-general.

—

Deputy Commissarygeneral.

—

Ewart, Sub-agent

- - Salary for quarter ending 30th September 1846. - - As passage-money for the conveyance of 338 African immigrants from St. Helena, at 7/. per adult. - - In repayment of an advance made by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury on account of emigration from the East Indies. - - In repayment of certain advances made by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury on account of emigration from the East Indies. - - In repayment of certain advances made by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury on account of emigration from the East Indies. - - Salary for the quarter ending 31st December 1846. - - Being the amount required to cover the cost of bills of exchange remitted to the Bank of England, to meet in London tho drafts of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners 011 account of East Indian immigration. - - As allowance on 630 Indian immigrants, ex "Barossa" and "Anne Armstrong," at Old Harbour, and contingent expenses. - - In repayment of certain advances made by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury on account of emigration from the East Indies. - - Being the amount required to cover tho cost of a bill of exchango for 2,500/. remitted to the Bank of England, to meet in London the drafts of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners on account of East Indian immigration. - - Salary for the quarter ending 31st March 1847. - - Being the amount required to cover tho cost of bills of oxchange for 4,500 /. remitted to the Bank of England, to meet in London tho drafts of tho Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners on account of East Indian immigration. - - Being the amount required to cover tho cost of bills of exchango for 1,500/. remitted to tho Bank of England, to meet in London tho drafts of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners on account of East Indian immigration. - - In repayment of certain advances made by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury on account of emigration from tho East Indies. - - As allowance on 231 Indian immigrants landed ex " Barossa" at Port Morant, and contingent expenses.

amount. £.

125

1,828 18

907

1,876 19

125

14,171 10

124 19

366 12 11

2,531 55

125

4,494 I-8

1,498

451 16

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. BATE.

1847: 28 May -

TO WHOM PAID.

John Edwards, Receiver-general.

11 June -

John Edwards, Receiver-general.

W. A. Bell, Sub-agent

—

12 -

R. Emery, Sub-agent

10 July -

15 24

—

C. H. Darling, Agent general. Deputy Commissarygeneral.

C. H. Darling, Agentgeneral. John Edwards, Receiver-general.

John Edwards, Receiver-general.

Deputy Commissarygeneral.

6 6 AUGUST

—

R. S. Lambert, Subagent.

Jordon & Osborne

September -

C. H. Darling, Agentgeneral. R. Emery, Sub-agent

R. Cocking, Sub-agent

FOR WHAT SERVICE.

- - Being the amount required to cover the cost of a bill of exchange for 3,5001, remitted to the Bank of England, to meet in London the drafts of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners on account of East Indian immigration. - - Being the amount required to cover the cost of a bill of exchange for 3,800 I. remitted to the Bank of England, to meet in London the drafts of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners on account of East Indian immigration. - - As allowance on 225 Indian immigrants landed ex " Morley" at Old Harbour, and contingent expenses. - - As allowance on 584 Indian immigrants landed ex " Athenian" and " Winifred" at Falmouth and Lucea, and contingent expenses. - - Salary for the quarter ending 30th June 1847. - - In repayment of an advance made by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury, on account of emigration from the East Indies. - - As an advance on account of contingencies. - - Being the amount required to cover the cost of a bill of exchange for 2,5001, remitted to the Bank of England, to meet in London the drafts of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners on account of East Indian immigration. - Out of 9 Vict. c. 15, and 10 Vict, c. 35; being the amount required to cover the cost of a bill of exchange for 4,0001, remitted to the Bank of England, to meet in London the drafts of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners on account of East Indian immigration. - - Out of 10 Vict. c. 35 ; in repayment of an advance made by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury on account of emigration from the East Indies. - - As allowance on the distribution of and passage-money of 20 emancipadoes landed ex Royal Mail Company's steamer " Thames." - - Being the amount of their account for sundry printing work performed. - - As an advance on account of contingencies. - - As allowance on 271 Indian immigrants landed ex " David Clarke" at Lucea, and contingent expenses. - - As allowance on 510 Indian immigrants landed ex " Success" and "Macedon" at Savannah la Mar, and contingent expenses.

£. 3,484

s. -

Emigration.

d. -

3,784

59 19

200

125

116 15

100

2,501 10

4,013

1,308

53 12

100

66 14

110

44,771 10

N.B — details of the above expenditure are shown in the Quarterly Statements submitted by "general to the Commissioners of Accounts. * Immigration Office, Spanish Town, 21 October 1847.

(signed) 3 E2

JAMAICA.

Encl. in No. 3.

Forty-four thousand Seven hundred and Soventy-one Pounds, Ten shillings, and

0.32.

799 Appendix, No. 1.

AMOUNT.

£.

Amounting to

395

C. H. Darling. A. G. I.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

396

Appendix, No. 1. Emigration.

Appendix (C.) JAMAICA. Encl. in No. 3.

STATEMENT of the Amount of TAX received from the First Employers of African Immigrants from St. Helena, ex " Indus," arrived on the 23d November 1846.

Dec.

1846 -

Immigrants above Eight Years of Age, at £. 2.

Immigrants under Eight Years of Age, at £. 1.

£.

s. d.

- -

176

Geo. J. MacQueen -

Robert Gow -

Charles S. Barclay -

100

Matt. Thomson

Charles Cardell

S.H.Cooke -

R. G. Marshall Charles Nockells

James M'Ken

544

Edw. B. Thomas

—

lmniigration-office,Spanish Town, C.H. Darling, A.G.I.

Appendix (D.) A RETURN of the First Employers of EMANCIPADO IMMIGRANTS who have arrived during the Year ending 30th September 1847, and of the Numbers assigned to each. Number Assigned.

Name of Employer.

Estate-

Parish.

Clifton Mount.

R. C. Carr

St. Andrew's

R. C. Carr

Ditto -

Rev. C. Fyfe -

Ditto -

James Derbyshire -

St. Catherine

Win. Williamson

St. George's

Mount Halstein.

Port Royal

Chester Vale.

Trelawney

Hyde Hall.

6 20 7

Spalding

Henry Shirley

Barbican.

Silver Hill. Cumberland Pen.

Immigration-office, Spanish Town,' 21 October 1847.

C. II. Darling,

A-

G.I.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

397

801 Appendix, No. 1

Appendix (E.) Emit: ration. A

RETURN of the Employers of AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS from St. Helena, who arrived during the Year ending 30 September 1847.

JAMAlCA End. in No. 3.

No. of Immigrants.

Name of Employer.

Parish.

Estate.

St. Thomas-in-the-East

Charles Nockells

J. Kenedy

ditto

W. G. Warren

ditto

Blue Mountain.

Danvers

ditto

Serge Island.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D;

Walton -

ditto

East Prospect.

A. Barclay

ditto

Pera.

D. Ewart

ditto

Friendship Pen.

G. Macqueen -

ditto

Potosi.

R. Gow -

ditto

Sunning Hill.

C. Cardell

ditto

Montpelier.

A. Gray

ditto

Oxford.

Mount Pleasant. Hall Head.

J. G. Carran -

ditto

Lyssons.

J. Blount

ditto

Wheelerfield.

J. M'Ken

ditto

Stanton.

Rev. S.

ditto

Rectory.

Cooke

336

Immigration-office, Spanish Town, 21 October 1847.

(signed)

H. C. Darling, A. G. I.

Appendix (F.) , ss.â&#x20AC;&#x201D;This Indenture, made the between day of of the parish of esquire, sub-agent of emigration, acting under the authority of an Act of the Governor, Council, and Assembly of this island, passed in the tenth year of the reign of Her Majesty Queen Victoria, intituled, "An Act for the Encouragement of Immigration," of the one part, and of a householder of this parish, of the other part, witnesseth, that the said in pursuance and exercise of the authority in him vested by the above-mentioned Act, hath an African child, under the age of ten years put, placed and bound or thereabouts), brought to this island on the (to wit, of the age of day of in the ship with to the said him as an apprentice, to dwell and serve from the day of the date hereof, for and during, and unto the full end and term of five years from thence next ensuing, and fully to be completed and ended, during all which time this apprentice his said master will and shall faithfully serve, his lawful commands every where gladly do, from the setvice of his said master he shall not at any time depart or absent himself without his said master's leave, but shall and will demean himself and behave faithfully towards his said master and all those acting under his lawful authority during the said term. And the said master, for the consideration aforesaid, this apprentice shall and will teach and instruct, or cause to be taught and instructed, in works of husbandry and field or plantation labour (as the case may be) for and during the aforesaid term, and shall and will, during all the time aforesaid, find, provide and allow unto this apprentice sufficient meat, drink, apparel, lodging, washing, due and proper attendance by a qualified medical practitioner, together with such medicines, subsistence, and medical comforts as the medical attendant may direct; and also shall and will, during all the aforesaid term, well and truly conform to the provisions of a certain other Act of this island, passed in the fourth year of the reign of Her said Majesty, intituled, " An Act to regulate the Apprenticeship of Minors." In witness whereof, &c. (True copy of the form.) JAMAICA

(signed)

0.32.

3E3 3

C. H. Darling, A. G. I.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

398 Appendix, No. 1.

Appendix (G.)

Emigration. JAMAICA.

the Year of ESTATES upon which the COOLIES, who have arrived during' and t ending 30th September 1847, have been located, with the Names of their Employers,

ALPHABETICAL LIST

Encl. in No. 3.

Number assigned to each.

PARIS II.

NAME OF ESTATE.

Adelphi .... Albion Argyle Alexandria Albany Amity Blue Mountain Bushy Park Bra' Penn Barbican Belvidere ... Clifton Hill Colbecks ... Caledonia ... Caswell Hill Copse Content Culloden Penn ... ... Denbeigh ... Dry River Eardley ... Friendship Good Hope Garredu Grange .... Great Valley Golden Grove Georgia .... Green Castle ... Hall Head Harmony Hall Industry Island Kupuis King's Penn Lodge Longville Lima ... Montpelier Meykrsfield Mount Pleasant .... Morant Masters Mears' Mountain River Mount Edgecombe Penn .... Oxford Old Plantation Pennants Plantain Garden River Pera Parnassus Pindar's River Potosi Phoenix . . Petersfield Papine Paradise Pell River Rockspring Raymonds Retreat -

... ... r .

... Retirement Retrieve Robin's River Pen ... Shrewsbury .... Buttons Serge Island

St. James's St. David's St. James's Hanover Westmoreland Westmoreland St. Thomas-in-the-East St. Dorothy ... Hanover ... Hanover Hanover St. Thomas-in-the East St. Dorothy Westmoreland Vere Hanover Hanover • Westmoreland Clarendon Vere Hanover St. James Trelawney St. James Hanover ... Hanover Hanover Hanover St. Thomas-in-the-East St. Thomas-in-the-East Vere Hanover St. Elizabeth Clarendon Westmoreland St. Dorothy Clarendon • » St. James ... St. Thomas-in-the-East Westmoreland St. Thomas-in-the-East St. Thomas-in-the-East St. Dorothy Clarendon St. John's Westmoreland St. Thomas-in-the-East Clarendon Clarendon Thomas-in-the-East St. St. Thomas-in-the-East Clarendon Clarendon Trelawney Trelawney Westmoreland St. Andrew's Hanover Hanover Hanover Vere St. John's ... Hanover Westmoreland - ditto ... - ditto Clarendon St. Thomas-in-the-East

NAME OF EMPLOYER.

William Henry Knott, esq. Messrs Porteous, Carson & Co. G. R. Ruthven, esq. - Same J. G. Campbell, esq., at orney Thomas Tate, esq. C. Nock ells, esq. S. Hannaford, esq. H. E. Walcott, esq. Henry Brockett, esq. H. Groves, esq. F. H. James, esq. S. Hannaford, esq., A., The Hon. T. M'Neil Hon. G. Shaw Isaac Jackson, esq., A. Henry Brockett, esq., A.Thomas Tate, esq. William Rose, esq. L. M'Kinnon, esq. Henry Brockett, esq. Stuart Edwards, esq., L. T. Morrish and S. Edwards, esqrs. W. H. Cook, esq., attorney W. Whitmore, esq. Henry Brockett, esq. Isaac Jackson, esq. Henry Brockett, esq. S. Noyes, esq. C. Nockells, A.Hon. G. Shaw H. E. Clarke, esq. Salmon Hon. J. The William Rose, esq., A. Thomas Tate, esq. William Rose, esq,, A. - Same Geo. Holbrook, esq., A. C. Cardell, esq. W. H. Cooke, esq. C. Nockells, esq., A. E. B. Thomas, esq. S. Hannaford, esq., A. William Jannan, esq., A. S. Hannaford, esq. Thomas Tate, esq., A. C. Cardell, A. William Rose esq., A. William Rose, J. B. Grace, esq. A. Barclay, esq. William Rose, esq. ditto , Edwads Thomas Morrish and S. Jno. W. Pierce, esq., A. John Rankine, esq. f L. M'Kinnon, esq., A. G. R. Ruthven, esq. - Same G. B. Vidal, esq. John W. Ward, esq. Hon. E. Thompson G. R. Ruthven, esq. " John G. Campbell, A, Thomas.Fate, esq., A. M'Neil Thomas Hon. William Rose, esq., A. C. Nockells, esq., A. -

22 63 22 26 17

84 11 33 10 35 32 35 34 11 30 50 31 20 40 20 26 25 53 45 20 54 40 21 45 25 38 20 46 40 37 40 40 35 11 51 29 10 20 40 30 30 10 20 20 28 20 40 41 54 26 26 24 20 20 38 30 22 11 17 20 27 20 1

SELECT

COMMITTEE

SUGAR

AND

COFFEE

PLANTING.

399

803 Appendix, No. 1.

NAME OF ESTATE.

NAME 01' EMPLOYER.

PARISH.

Emigration. Swansea Salt Spring Springfield

...

Stretton Hall . Saxham Sodhall .... -... Spring SAVOY

Shaftston Penn Trout Hall

Three Mile River

W him York

....

... -

St. John Hanover Westmoreland

Vere Hanover Hanover Trelawney Clarendon Westmoreland Clarendon Westmoreland St. Dorothy St. James -

S. Hannaford, esq., A. 40 M. F. Lemarney ... 30 F. R. Hylton and W. H. Cooke, esqrs., A. 42 William Tarrant, esq. 10 Henry Brockett, esq. 21 William Henry Knott, esq. 20 John W. Pierce, esq., A. 32 William Rose, esq. 23 Thomas Tate, esq., A. 20 F. Jarman, esq., A. 40 Peter Easson, esq. 20 S. Hannaford, esq. 32 Charles W. Masters, L. 40

immigration-office, Spanish Town, 21 October 1847.

C. H. Darling,

A. G.

JAMAICA. Encl. in No. 3.

Appendix (H.)

EXTRACT

of a DESPATCH from Mr. Secretary Gladstone to the Earl of Elgin.

Downing-street, 30 April 1846. the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your Lordship's despatch of the 4th See Parliamentary I HAVE February, No. 27, enclosing some enlarged and altered regulations respecting the distribu- Paper, No. 691, tion and care of Coolie and African labourers, Part 2, of 1846, These regulations appear to be judicious, and well adapted for the welfare of the immi- p. 24. and, subject to the following remarks, they meet with my approval. grants, 1st. With respect to the substitution of rations for a portion of the money wages to the Coolie labourers who may arrive. I am aware that, to some extent, such a course has Gained, not only in Jamaica, but in other colonies, and that it was adopted in the Trinidad Stanley's regulations, a copy of which was transmitted to you for your information, in Lord Stanley's despatch of the 21st April 1845 ; but as it is a practice which has been invariably Condemned in this country, and one which I cannot but think has a constant tendency to abuse, I feel assured that I need only draw your attention to it to ensure its being narrowly watched, and, if advisable, to such measures being adopted as may lead to its gradual circumscription, concurrently with the social progress of the colony, and probably to its ultimate abolition. (True Extract) C. H. Darling, A. G. I. (signed)

Appendix (I.) GOVERNMENT NOTICE.

Immigration Office, 9 February 1847. rules and regulations have been approved and sanctioned by his ExcelTHEfollowing lency the Governor, and are required to be observed by the employers of East Indian inimigrants who may in future be allotted to estates on their first arrival in the colony, or who may enter into fresh engagements with East Indian immigrants at the expiration of existing (NO.

.1.)

Coolies employed on any one property at The rule fixed the maximum number of the minimum at 20, is cancelled.

and

REGULATIONS

to be observed by the Employers of East Indian Immigrants.

Immigration Office, 4 February 1847. following and Regulations, which have been approved and sanctioned by his THE Excellency the Governor, are required to be observed by the employers of East Indian immigrants, under the powers and provisions of the Act 9 Vict. c. 17: 1. The dwellings provided for the immigrants must be maintained in proper order; and to each immigrant above the age of 12 years must be allotted at least a quarter of an acre of land, suitable for a garden, if desired by the immigrant. and medical comforts, must be provided gratis for the 2. Medical attendance, medicines, immigrant and every member of his family. 3. Wages 3 E 4

400

APPENDIX TO

THIRD

REPORT

FROM

THE

3. Wages must be paid to the immigrants at the rate stipulated in their respective contracts, at least once in every 14 days; and the allowance of rations being no longer required, it will be the duty of the agent-general and sub-agents of immigration to see that the general rate of Is. 3d. per day for each sirdar or headman; Is. for each able-bodied Coolie male labourer above 12 years of age; and 10d. for each able-bodied female labourer above 12 years of age; and 6 d. for each labourer under 12 years of age, is secured by every contract, except where special reasons exist for deviating from the rule; which reasons must, in such cases, be stated in the contract; and the sub-agent must certify that they have been explained to the party agreeing to accept any lower rate, and that he or she has fully understood the same, and freely consented to accept the lower rate of wages. 4. Kice, not being African rice, and cocoa-nut oil, both of the best quality, and perfectly sound, sweet, and wholesome, must be kept on hand in sufficient quantity to supply the immigrants for one calendar month at the least; and must be sold and supplied to the immigrants, as they may require the same, at the prime cost of the said articles when brought upon the estate, without any gain or profit from the sale of the same. 5. The number of working days under each contract must not be more than 12 in each fortnight, nor fewer than 10 ; and the stipulated daily wages must be paid by the employer for every working day on which the immigrant is willing to work. 6. When absenting themselves from work, either from sickness or from their own free will, the immigrants will not be entitled to wages; but when sickness is the cause of their absence, sufficient and wholesome food must be included amongst the medical comforts provided by the employer. 7. A register must be kept, according to the Form A., hereunto annexed, of the names, registered number, sex, age, and other particulars of the Indian labourers in his employment, and their families, and of the dates of all deaths and births which may occur among them. 8. A medical register, or " case book," must also be kept upon each property where Indian immigrants are employed, in which the medical attendant should record the name of the patient, nature, treatment, and result of every case ; together with such remarks as may tend to show the suitableness, or otherwise, of the Indian labourer to the climate of the country, and the diseases to which his constitution may appear more peculiarly liable. 9. All persons, who may, from time to time, be duly authorized by his Excellency the Governor to inquire into the state and condition of the Indian labourers, shall have free access to such labourers, and to the registers required to be kept by these regulations.

Appendix, No. 1 Emigration. JAMAICA. Encl. in No. 3.

(True Copy.) C. H. Darling, Agent-general of Immigration.

FORM A.

of EAST INDIAN IMMIGRANTS in the Employment of (Sugar Estate, Coffee Plantation, or Pen, as the case may be), in the Parish of

Age Registered

Name of

Number

Ship in which

the

Immigrant.

Dale

Name

of Ship's

Arrival.

Immigrant,

Immigran t at Date of entering into

Immigrant

M. F,

arrived.

SexX.

Employer's Service.

Date of Immigrant's entering into Employer's Service.

Date of Immigrant's Removal from Employer's Service, and into whose Service entered, if known.

DEATH.

Date of

Date of.

Cause of.

REMARKS.

Birth.

* These particulars can all be ascertaiued from the certificate with which each Immigrant will be furnished before leaving the Immigration Dep么t.

Appendix (K.) ss. it remembered, that of and the several Indian immigrants, whose names and signatures are subscribed to these presents, executed in three parts, have respectively agreed to and executed the following contract of hiring or employment and service, which it is hereby expressly declared shall be bold, deemed and construed us a several contract between the said and each of them, the said subscribing Indian immigrants, The JAMAICA,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

401

805

The said agrees to hire or employ the services of each of them the said Appendix, No. 1. subscribing Indian immigrants, and each of them the said subscribing Indian immigrants agrees to render to the said Emigration. his services in the capacity and in manner hereinafter mentioned, for calendar months, commencing and to be computed from JAMAICA. the day of the date of tbe execution of these presents by the said Indian immigrant, and fully to be completed and ended. And it is further agreed between the said parties, the said Encl. in No. 3. and each of them the said subscribing Indian immigrants, that the said Indian immigrant may or shall be employed, and he will regularly, punctually and faithfully labour, and render his services to or for the said during his contract, in works of husbandry and field or plantation labour, and in all respects or particulars incidental thereto, at and under the orders or directions of the said or his agent, on or at and for such days and times as next mentioned. That the days of labour, or working days of the said Indian immigrant, shall not be more, and shall not be fewer. (1) If the immigrant agrees to work on every than (1) alternate days of or in Saturday, as mentioned in the last note, this blank must during this contract, excepted always every Sunday, be filled in as follows ; viz. " 11 days of, or in every period and excepted also (2) That the hours of, 14 consecutive days." If he do not so agree, this blank of labour of the said Indian immigrant, under this con- must then be filled in with the number of working days tract, shall not be more, and shall not be fewer, than agreed on, and as follows; viz. " days of, or in every nine hours of every such day of labour, or working day, week." as hereinbefore mentioned, and shall be or extend over (2) If the immigrant agrees that Saturday shall be inthe following hours of the clock daily; that is to say, eluded in the days of labour, it will be proper that every from six o'clock to and until nine o'clock in the morn- alternate Saturday should be excluded, and this blank ing, and from ten o'clock in the morning until four space will be filled in thus: "every second or alternate o'clock in the afternoon of every such day of labour, or Saturday, to be computed from the date of this contract." working day as aforesaid. That the said Indian immi- If he do not so agree, the words " and excepted also," imgrant will not absent himself from the service of the mediately following the word " Sunday," must bestruck out. said without his leave, and will faithfully serve and obev the said and his or his agent s lawful commands, orders and directions, willingly do and perform, observe, and fulfil to the best of his abilities and power during this contract. And it is further agreed by and between the said parties, that, in consideration of the faithful service so to be performed by tbe said Indian immigrant, lie the said will provide and allow unto tbe said Indian immigrant, and maintain for him, during this contract, a suitable dwelling, to be approved by such person as may be appointed by bis Excellency the Governor, or tbe person executing the functions of Governor for the time being, to inspect tbe same from time to time; and will also provide and allow one quarter of an acre of land for the use of him the said Indian immigrant as a garden ; and also will, at his own expense, and without charge against the said Indian immigrant, or deduction from his wages, or allowances, provide and supply gratuitously unto the said Indian immigrant, and every member of his family, whenever occasion may require, during this contract, due and proper attendance by a duly qualified medical practitioner, and such medicines, subsistence or aliment, and medical comforts as tbe medical attendant may direct. And also will and shall, during the continuance of this contract, always have oil hand a sufficient quantity of rice, not being African rice, and ghee (or cocoa-nut oil in lieu or substitution of ghee), of the best quality, and perfectly sound, sweet and wholesome, to supply each of them the said Indian immigrants, parties hereto, with food and sustenance for the space of one calendar month at the least, and will and shall sell and supply the said articles, and every of them, to the said Indian immigrant, as he shall require the same, at the prime cost of the said articles when brought on the estate, without making any gain or profit from the same. And also will pay unto the said Indian immigrant the sum or sums of money or wages, at and after the rate mentioned and set down against or opposite the name of the said Indian immigrant in the Schedule hereunto annexed, for every such day of labour or working day as the said Indian immigrant shall be actually employed and labour under this contract, except as after mentioned. And also will pay the lastly mentioned sum or sums of money or wages, at least once in every period of fourteen consecutive days during this contract, except as after mentioned. And also will find employment for the said Indian immigrant, or will pay him wages or money at the daily rate hereinbefore stipulated for or in respect of every such day as, under tbe agreement hereinbefore in that respect contained, shall fall under the denomination of a day of labour, or working day, under this contract as aforesaid, except as after mentioned. And it is further agreed, that such sum or sums of money, or wages, or any portion thereof whatsoever, shall not be paid or payable to the said Indian immigrant, for or in respect of every or any such day of labour, or working day as aforesaid, or for or during any such longer period or periods of time as the said Indian immigrant shall be absent from his daily labour, or from bis employment or service under this contract, by reason of sickness o r without the leave of the said Provided always, and it is mutually agreed between the said parties to these presents, that nothing herein contained shall prevent, or be construed to prevent, the said and each of them, the said subscribing Indian immigrants, from substituting job or task labour in lieu of the labour agreed to be given and accepted under this contract whilst and so long as such job or task labour shall afford to the said Indian immigrant a daily remuneration equal to tbe amount of wages provided and agreed to be paid and received under this contract. 0.32. 3 F In

402 Appendix,

No.

Emigration. JAMAICA.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

In witness whereof the said hath subscribed his name at the foot of these presents, and the said other parties have hereto respectively subscribed their names on the days against their respective signatures mentioned, voluntarily, and in the presence ot the sub-agent of immigration attesting the execution hereof, the same having been first read and explained to them respectively.

Encl. in No. 3. NAME OF INDIAN IMMIGRANT.

SIGNATURE OF IMMIGRANT.

DATE OF

PAY PER DIEM.

EXECUTION BY IMMIGRANT.

Signed by the above-named

SIGNATURE OF SUB-AGENT ATTESTING TO BE PUT AGAINST EACH SIGNATURE.

(the names of the several Indian immigrants

in number, and the amount of pay for each being first inserted in the above Schedule), in the presence of (True Copy of the Form.)

(signed)

C. H. Darling. A. G. I.

Appendix (L). (No. 140.)

Immigration Office, Spanish Town, March 1847. xii I HAVE the honour to enclose herewith the documents stated in the margin, connected with the East Indian immigrant ship " Barossa;" which vessel, as your Excellency is aware? unfortunately struck upon a reef on the 9th January last, when entering Port Morant, where the master had been directed, according to the uniform practice since the commencement of East India immigration, to call for orders as to his ultimate destination in this island. While I am happy to state that no lives were lost as the immediate consequence of this calamity, I regret to report that the vessel became a total wreck in two or three days afterwards; and that one Coolie, who was in a state of extreme debility, died in the boat while being conveyed to the shore, the surgeon reporting in his journal that she had become much alarmed at the heavy striking of the vessel on the reef. The requisite orders directing the masters to proceed to Old Harbour, were in the ha/ids of Messrs. A. Barclay & Co., at Port Morant, and were delivered to the master upon his communicating with the shore; I could not, therefore, of course, consider the owners of entitled to the stipulated passage money until the Coolies were delivered a* tOld he "Barossa" Harbour. to be As however, a certain number of Coolies were, in the course of the present year, settled in the neighbourhood of Port Morant, it appeared practicable, by a slight alteration in the arrangement previously made, in some degree to relieve the owners from the addito tional loss to which they would be subject by having to remove the whole of the Coolies Old llarbour. I accordingly addressed to the sub-agent of the district instructions of which I have the honour to enclose a copy for your Excellency's information, and the master of the " Barossa having agreed to the terms therein proposed, 227 Coolies were accordingly settled upon estates in the parish of St. Thomas in the East; and the remainder, 109 in number, forwarded with as little delay as possible to Old Harbour, and distributed to estates in the parishes of St. Dorothy and Clarendon. The details of sex, age, increase and decrease upon the voyage, will be found in the subagent s disembarkation return, Enclosure No. 1. Until the distribution of such of the Coolies as have been settled in St. Thomas in the they East, and the subsequent embarkation of those who were forwarded to Old Harbour, were comfortably and healthily lodged at Fairfield House, in the neighbourhood of Port Morant; and the whole expense of their maintenance there, and passage to Old Harbour, ' if has been incurred by the Master of the " Barossa." I have the honour to report further to your Excellency, that having received from the sobagent at Port Morant the certificate required by the 18th clause of the charter-party of the "Barossa, declaring the owners entitled to the sum of 4,803 l. 15s., being the passage money of 315/. statute adults landed alive, at 15/. 5 s. each,â&#x20AC;&#x201D;I have countersigned same, as also required by the clause referred to. I have &c. (signed) C. II. Darling, A. G. I. (True Copy.) C. II. Darling, A. G. I. (signed) Sir

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

807 403

404

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

809 405

406

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Appendix

(N.)

Number Embarked. Name of

Port of

Date of

Port

Date

Coolie Ship.

Departure.

of Arrival.

Blundell

Calcutta

1845: 29 January -

1845 : 9 May

971 271 234

312

342 276

248

... Lucea Savanna la Mar ... Lucea

105 103 120

170 251 174

29 31 46

35 42

25 14

Savanna la Mar Port Maria Port Maria Old Harbour -

10 27 7 15

91 98 119 114

242 147 217 181

37 27 35 51

11 16 25 37

3 13 24 18

1847: 10 January -

105

239

10 February

102

282

Madras Madras Calcutta Calcutta

20 17 8 4

Madras Madras

27 September - - Port Morant and Old Harbour. 31 October Old Harbour -

Anne Armstrong

... Morley Tropic ... Scotia Warren Hastings -

...

206

10 November 22 November 2 December

Barossa

101

Calcutta Calcutta Calcutta

April April June June

293 203

259

401 423 229

Calcutta Madras

18 November 16 December

Savanna la Mar Falmouth ...

27 February 4 April

101 109

201 195

24 79

3 43

5 233 36 353

Winifred Macedon

... ...

Calcutta Madras

1847: 3 January16 January-

... Lucea Savanna la Mar

13 April 22 April

102 94

216 190

24 52

12 21

8 30

Morley

....

Madras

4 February

15 May

101

189

Calcutta

2 March -

- - Kingston and Old Harbour. Lucea

286, 188 276

320 1/2

... ...

11 July

253

287

Success Athenian

David Clarke

Total

1846: 22 February 5 March 3 April

Old Harbour

Mandarin ... Hyderabad ... ... Thetis

1846: January JanuaryFebruary February

Non-Adults Total.

Adults.

131

241

3,441

729

351

313

250 260 267 Hi b 285

4,822

Sum Paid

Expenses Expenses

Parish or Parishes in which Incurred in

Total Expense.

Incurred in India. Passage Money.

located. Jamaica.

s. -

d. -

134

3,067 10 4,245 3,560 -

106 118 87

4 6 7 10 5 6

4.556 2,890 3,793 3,590

9 6 6 3

100 3 60 16 88 12 98 17

£. 3.555

£.

s. d.

£. s. d.

Number of Deaths within the first Six Months of Residence.

Above 8.

Under 8.

Total.

flat* per Cent. of

such petti1"

£. s. d.

Clarendon and Vcre Hanover and St. James Westmoreland Hanover and St. James

1 2 -

• 1

•if i

-2

4 1 —

1 3

2 2

114

1 -

7 8 2 2 1

Westmoreland St. Mary, St. Ann, and Metcalfe Metcalfe and St. Mary Clarendon and Vere

17 11 4 3

between Number of Deaths the less date of arrival and of period a being June, than 6 months. 4,803 15

122 13

5,756 10

—

140

'3,249 11 4,400 4

6 -

109 11 115 4

8 2

5 9

143 10 10 93 16 4

3,792 18

65 14

3,626 10

3,540 3,846

62,273

11,416 12 111/2

Immigration-Office, 21 October J 847. J

1,672 11 11

St. Thomas-in-the-East and St. Dorothy. St. Dorothy, St. John, and Clarendon. Westmoreland Trelawney and St. James Hanover Hanover, Westmoreland and St. Elizabeth. St. David, St. Andrew, St. Dorothy, Vcre and St. John's. Hanover 76,362

13 10$

3 1

See

Remark (C.)

3 1

7 8 1

3 3---9 7 111

•a 2 nearly

W fo

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

811

Appendix (N.)

Deaths on the Voyage.

407

Rates per

Total Number Landed.

Births

Statute Adult on the Voyage.

of Passage

Total.

•

1 3

£20

10 8 4

5 14

1 1

:1-4 •

8 8

1 1

261

244 J

31 37

19 11

234 317 255

213 292 231

15 15 16

37 26 32 47

4 11 16 25 34

2 13 24 12

292 200 288 265

285 \ 185 J 263 \ 242

15 19 15 15 14 17 15 7

9 6 6

341

319

15 15

200

165 237 168

28 30 39

242 145 207 172

239

, *

280

421

398

191 189

22 73

2 40

4 33

219 335

216 298

14 19 14 19

6 4

208 188

24 51

11 26

6 31

249 291

240 225

14 17 14 14

6 9

187

312

286

13 19

223 3a

Money.

4 I 19

Total Statute Adults.

14 10

1 3

1 1

Total.

Non-Adults.

Adults.

Non-Adults. M.Total.

271

262

243

4,566

4,303

185

695

3,241

336

| 41

Total Number of Coolies alive in the Island on 28th June 1847.

Rate

1847_

per Cent.

Total.

8 u 3

, J 8

of such Deaths.

F. *

3) 15 13

1 a 3

1 -

9 21

45 19 16 7

Under 8.

in respect of Total,

Coolies.

£.

205

251

684

168 242 180

28 30 36

13 9 25

19 10 15

230 291 256

581 10 746 10 536 10

11 8 9 J' 2 I

199 125 205 183

33 24 34 45

10 13 13 13

2 9 22 12

242 171 274 253

623 452 10 653 10 569 10

9 18 3

REMARKS.

for Tax Above 8. M.

„ a 1

charged up to 28th June

— per Annum

"Oder 8. F.

Total Amount

6 233 'it"* 1

283

62 94

12 19

324

294 10

412

384 10

193 139

17 1

169 199

39 81

3 28

211 337

3 18

209 188

24 59

7 17

247 281

116 10 124 -

195

- 13

305

123 10

2,983

692

207

205

~190

6,222 4,087 Sec Remai k (D.)

(A.) I can only state the total amount incurred, the accounts as rendered not showing the specific amount in respect of each vessel. (B.) This is an estimated sum, calculated upon the expenditure incurred in respect of the Coolies conveyed by the first nine vessels. The demand has not yet been made by the Lords of the Treasury, and the expenses in India on account of these seven vessels still remain to be defrayed. (C.) The " David Clarke" having arrived since the 28th June, the date to which the numbers alive are computed, the details under the columns of decrease cannot of course be given with respect to that vessel. (D.) The total number of deaths deducted from the total number landed, excluding the " David Clarke," which arrived on the 11th July, gives 4,095 remaining alive, while the office registershows only 4,087; the difference of 8 may be accounted for by the fact, that infants are included in the disembarkation returns, while their deaths are not always noticed in the estates returns. The number 4,087 includes, however, all births which have been noticed in the estates returns.

C. H. Darling, A. G. I.

3 F4

408

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE Appendix (O.)

Appendix, No. 1.

C. H. Darling, Esq., Agent-general of Immigration, Sec.

Emigration. JAMAICA.

Encl. in No. 3.

No, 4. Eurl Grey to the Right Hon. Sir C. E. Grey.

Sir,

Content, Flint River, 18 October 1847. I REGRET much that absence from home, and other causes, have prevented me from earlier replying to your letter of the 22d September, requesting certain information respecting the Coolies located on some of the estates under my charge. I have also to express my regret at not being able to give you such full information as I should desire to do, in consequence of the wages and the cost of the allowances and maintenance given to the sick in both lots of Coolies on the estates in question having been kept together, and it being now impossible to make out any separate account of the cost of the labour of each with any degree of certainty. Besides which, most of my old Coolies are working task-work, and, in consequence, earning more than 1 s. per day; indeed at Content, several of my first lot earn with the greatest regularity 9 s. per week, that is six days at 1 s. 6 d., for which they perform a task equal in amount and superior in quality to that of the native labourer. I beg also to state that the Coolies who have now been 18 months in the country are as healthy as the natives, and seem quite inured to the climate, but that the new lot are sickly, principally from diarrhoea, low fever, and sores ; and that it appears that the Coolies require to be 12 months in the country before they become perfectly inured to the climate and its diseases, but that after that period they become as hardy and as capable of enduring fatigue as the natives. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Brochett. (True Copy.) (signed) C. H. Darling, A. G. I. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 4.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 129.) COPY of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor the Right Hon. Sir C. E. Grey. Sir, Downing-street, 14 January 1848. I HAVE the honour to acknowledge your despatch, No. 105, of the 23d of October 1847, accompanied by the last annual report of the Agent-general for Emigration. This document appears to have been drawn up with the same care and accuracy by which they have on previous occasions been distinguished, and comprises much interesting information on the immigration during the time to which it relates, and on the present state of the people who have arrived within that period. In conformity with your recommendation, founded upon your opinion of the views which will probably be entertained on the subject by the Assembly, no further steps will be taken for sending to Jamaica any emigrants at the expense of the colony, whether from Africa or elsewhere, unless they be applied for by the Legislature. For any Africans who may be introduced by the two small vessels which were chartered before the receipt of your despatch, I trust that your existing resources will enable you to provide payment; but even were it otherwise, I am quite confident that the Assembly at Jamaica, with its usual attention to any claim upon the good faith of the island, will enable you to meet those demands. The account which Captain Darling gives of the care taken of the juvenile Africans brought from St. Helena by the " Indus," is very creditable to their employers, and throws a favourable light upon the effect on Africans of their introduction into Jamaica. With respect to the non-arrival of the " Parland " and " Java," to which I see an allusion in Captain Darling's report, I am informed by the Commissioners of Emigration that these ships were prevented from reaching Calcutta at their appointed time, but that the circumstances are not such as to render it probable that payment for forfeit can be demanded consistently with the spirit of the agreement between the owners and the Government. The fact is, I believe, that the agents would have been unable to fill these ships had they arrived in time for the purpose. There seems little probability at the present moment that Cooly emigration will be renewed to any part of the West Indies. The inquiry, however, to which Captain Darling alludes at the end of his report, both as to the utility of this class of labourers and also as to their present condition in the island, and their enjoyment of the rights to which they are by law entitled, is one which appears deserving of attention, and of which the results could hardly fail to be useful when any future questions of a general nature on the supply of labour are considered. But I must leave it to you to judge how far there may be the means of carrying out such an investigation satisfactorily, and also of providing for the expense. I have only further to observe, that I entertain no doubt that if additional legislation should prove to be necessary, for the purpose of securing due relief being afforded to sick and destitute Coolies, an object of such extreme importance will not be lost sight of by yourself or by the Assembly. I would suggest that if such legislation should be required, it should at the same time be considered whether the existing law is sufficient to restrain the disposition to vagrancy which must be expected to exist amongst some at least of the emigrants. I have, &c. (signed) Grey.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

409

— No. 5. — (No. 115.) Copy of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey. King's House, Jamaica, 22 November 1847. (Received 28 December 1847.) I COMMUNICATED to Mr. Edwards, the Receiver-general of the island, your Lordship's despatch, Jamaica, No. 89, October 12, relating to the balance of the funds remitted for immigration purposes, which is now in the hands of the Commissioners of Land and Emigration, and the letter, of which a copy is laid before your Lordship, has been this day received from M r. Edwards. Mr. Edwards' proposal that all the balances of immigration funds should be paid into the hands of Messrs. Hankey, to the credit of the island account, must of course be understood as subject to the condition of the balances being liable to any legitimate and previously constituted claims. But the inclination of the House of Assembly in the present session appears to be adverse to the incurring of any fresh expense on account of immigration, and unless upon the express application of the Legislature, I would advise that no further steps should be taken by the Commissioners for supplying immigrants to Jamaica. I have, &c. (signed) Charles Edward Grey. My Lord,

Enclosure 1, in No. 5.

813 Appendix No- 1. JAMAICANo.5.. Right Hon. Sir. C. E. Grey to Earl Grey-

Mr. Edwards to Mr. Pilgrim, 20 November 1847.

End. I, in No. 5

Sir,

Public Treasury, 20 November 1847. I HAVE the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your communication of 17th instant, No. 893, enclosing copy of a despatch received from the Secretary of State for the Colonies, and copy of a report made to his Lordship by the Land and Emigration Commissioners, as to expenses on account of immigration from the East Indies to Jamaica. I would respectfully suggest that the Exchequer bills in which the sum of 3,0001. appears to have been invested should be delivered to the cashier of the Bank of England, to be sold, and the proceeds paid to Messrs. Thomas Hankey & Co., of Mincing-lane, to the credit of the public of Jamaica, and the remaining sum of 270 I. 12 s. 11 d. transferred to the same account. I am advised by the Agent-general of Immigration that there is a balance standing at the credit of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners in the colonial bank; and as that sum is unproductive, whilst Messrs. Thomas Hankey & Co. charge interest on their advances for the colony, I would beg to suggest a similar course, namely, to transfer the sum to the credit of the island with those gentlemen. I have, &c. T. F. Pilgrim, Secretary, &c. John Edwards (signed) Spanish Town. Receiver-general.

— No. 6. To the Land and Emigration Commissioners. Downing-street, 7 January 1848. Gentlemen, I AM directed by Earl Grey to transmit to you a copy of a despatch from the Governor of Jamaica, with reference to the transfer to Messrs. Hankey of certain funds which have been transmitted to this country for immigration services. Should there be no liabilities likely to accrue in this country on account of immigration to Jamaica, I am to convey to you Lord Grey's authority for transferring the monies in question to Messrs. Hankey, as requested by Sir Charles Grey. I am also to desire you, in conformity with Sir Charles Grey's recommendation, not to incur any further liabilities for emigration to Jamaica. (signed) Herman Merivale.

— No. 7. — (No. 6.) EXTRACT of a DESPATCH from Governor the Right Honourable Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey. King's House, Jamaica, 7 January 1848. (Received 3 February 1848.) " AT page 384 of the Votes of the Assembly, 21 December, there is a report from the Acting Agent-general for Immigration on the condition of the Coolie immigrants. The letters on which this report is founded are also to be printed; and, I believe, will present very full and interesting details."

0.32.

3 G

No. 6. H. Merivale, Esq. to the Land and Emigration Commissioners.

No. 115, 22 Nov.

No. 7. Right Hon. Sir C. E. Grey to Earl Grey.

410

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. JAMAICA.

Encl. in No. 7.

Enclosure in No. 7. EXTRACT

from Votes of the House of Assembly.

Sir, Immigration Office, 15 December 1847. I HAVE the honour, in obedience to the order conveyed to me, by your despatch of the 4t.h instant, enclosing a message from the honourable the House of Assembly, to lay before his Excellency the Governor a report upon the several communications received, in reply to a circular from this office, on the causes of desertion and vagrancy among the Coolies imported into the colony, and settled under contract as agricultural labourers. The equal amount of evidence, good and bad, respecting the condition of the Coolies, which accompanies this report, will afford his Excellency testimony, as decided of the orderly conduct, usefulness, and steady industry of these Indian labourers, as of their misery, idleness, and vagrant habits. If Indian immigration has been unsatisfactory in a number (it may be said in far too great a number) of instances, it has been reported with contentment and approval by so many correspondents, and with such unequivocal proofs of the good experienced, being the result of a pains-taking superintendence and management, that we may fairly presume that much of the evil complained of has been the consequence of a want of vigorous control. In analysing the several communications which report unfavourably the results of Coolie immigration, it will be found that the unfavourable facts distribute themselves under the following heads: Fact, No. 1.—That many of the immigrants who come under this inquiry, relative to desertion and vagrancy, are either not agricultural labourers at all, or are not capable, under any circumstances, of any useful application to agricultural purposes; or, that having been vitiated in habits, by being of castes privileged and tolerated as vagrants and mendicants, they are not to be influenced by the usual motives to industry, regularity, and bodily comfort. Fact, No. 2.—That they become abject and irremediably helpless, in consequence of their religious prejudices precluding them from the ordinary appliances of help and relief, through the instrumentality of means to which they are averse. These prejudices not alone have reference to food, but to the assistance of persons in the offices or cleanliness, and in the administration of aid in sickness and infirmity Fact, No. 3.—That delusive accounts being given, by discontented Coolies, as to allowances and wages upon other plantations, the more orderly labourers are persuaded to quit their locations to seek better employment, and becoming unsettled, subject themselves to the charge of vagrancy without being influenced by actually vagrant habits. Fact, No. 4.—That the difficulty attendant on the administration of justice through the petty sessions of the peace, operates completely as a deficient coercion of the law, the want of prompt legal restraint on the misconduct of the Coolies, who have contracted to serve, creating among them a belief that their amenability to justice has in it neither certainty nor decisiveness. Fact, No. 5.—That when contracts of service have been dissolved by magistrates, it has been found impossible, in most cases, to get the released Coolies to enter into fresh engagements to serve; that these have betaken themselves to casual work among small settlers, preferring to labour where they think proper, on the same terms as the Creoles, and that much wandering about necessarily has occurred among the Coolie labourers so circumstanced. I would not venture to say, in flic face of such objects of emaciation and disease as we see infesting the streets of the towns, that most of the wandering Coolies have found that the profession of a beggar is more easy than the occupation of an industrious labourer; or, that brought into communication with a sufficient number of persons with whom commiseration ends in acts of charity, the result has been the discovery, that by dint of importunity, and by persevering mendicity, begging is a profitable trade; yet, the letters submitted to his Excellency w ith this report, sufficiently demonstrate the fact that a great number of the recently imported Madras Coolies are inveterately idle, and that they have recourse to vagrancy and mendicity, as a mode of life not only congenial, but as one to which habit and privilege had reconciled them long before their importation into the colony. The migration of the Hindoo from the east to the west, produces no change in his habits and sentiments. He still inflexibly adheres to his peculiar prejudices. The obligation entered into to return him to his country, after a certain duration of service, the association while here with his fellow-countrymen, similarly circumstanced with himself, conspire to maintain in constant exercise the peculiarities of thought and action that form his character. The papers have recently made mention of religious processions, which the Coolies have been restrained from exhibiting in the towns, by the active vigilance of the magistracy and police. On the plantations, indulgence in their festive ceremonies has met with no such obstruction, and those which the rules of religion require they should perform morning and evening, and at stated periods, are left freely to control them in their daily pursuits and hourly offices. When so many circumstances concur to maintain unimpaired the habits and customs of this race, we can hardly doubt that many of those acts wnich look like unsettled and discontented movements, are influenced by what are to them proper and legitimate motives, howsoever

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

411

howsoever they may produce inconvenience and disquietude on the plantation. Their departure together, several at a time, to loiter away uselessly, as it seemed, some two or three days or a week in the towns, where they become objects of attention to the police, has, in very many instances, proceeded less from any disposition for idle wandering than for a gratification of prejudice. While so many things received by them suffer pollution from the hand of the stranger, the Hindoo holds, that articles purchased from shops are always pure. Those which they acquire by the distribution made under their contracts of service, religiously considered, come to them impure. The excellent work of Mr. Colebrooke, on the agriculture and commerce of Bengal, illustrates this influence by the known Hindoo maxim, that all things are received without defilement from the shop ; or, as it is otherwise expressed in the words of Menu, their lawgiver, " the hand of an artist, employed in his art, is always pure, so is any vendible commodity when exposed for sale." This is a practical maxim, and one which impels them with frequent and irresistible desire to visit the towns, that they may purchase things which they can use without scruple, by whomsoever they may have been manufactured, or by whomsoever they may have been handled. It will be observed, in the several letters which I have classed together as No. 1, that the conduct of the Coolies on the estates, from which those communications are written, is unexceptionably good. The causes of that mixed character of good and evil, which they exhibit here, prevails equally with Coolie emigrants imported into other colonies of the West Indies. The following extract, from the Trinidad Standard, gives a picture of the experience of Indian immigration in that island, in all respects the same as our own : " We would observe with regard to the Coolies, for whose introduction the colony has to pay a most costly price, that while many of them continue to afford their employers satisfaction, and are steadily working on the estates, very many of them are, on the contrary, most unsatisfactory ; having given themselves up to their former habits of indolence and mendicity, which their necessities as well as their natural dispositions seemed to have created and fostered in their native countries. The streets of our towns and the public roads throughout the island present objects of squalidness and misery, we would not say pitiable to behold, but repulsive and disgusting in the extreme, when it is known that the condition of these miserable beings is not owing to any local circumstances of an unavoidable nature, but to their own inveterate indolence and apathy, there being, so far as we are informed, employment sufficient for all requiring employment." In applying a remedy, or rather means to restrain this evil, I would venture to suggest, that a similar arrangement of the authority, both to afford protection to the Coolie and to compel him to the steady performance of his duty, be resorted to in this colony, as that which takes effect in the Crown colonies of Guiana and Trinidad. The questions which relate to the relative interests of master and employer, under the immigration acts, are not committed to the general magistracy, but to magistrates specially commissioned. If the existing sub-agents were created district agents, and were in number not less than one in each parish, by appointing them exclusively from among the magistracy, and assigning to one magistrate holding the office of district agent all the authority, in cases under the immigration act, which is assigned to two justices of the peace generally, in petty sessions, much of the inconvenience now complained of, relative to the difficulty and delay attendant on the administration of summary justice, would be got rid of; and all complaints would be entirely removed, if the preliminary formalities of the law, with respect to offences, were dispensed with, and an entry in a complaint book, like that which the law legalizes with respect to police complaints, under the 24th section of the police law, was adopted. There is no necessity to attach the same importance in principle to forms of practice in the administration of justice with these immigrants as with the native inhabitants. They come hither with no pre-conceived notions of constitutional liberty, which, violated in the form, may be said to be violated in the spirit of justice. The consequences of political prejudice do not attend innovations or departures from general rules in the case of these strangers. Without abridging in any degree their right to the same general principles of liberty and law, it may be recommended that the initial proceedings with them be different from those which the law prescribes in ordinary cases of summary justice. To speak more distinctly as to the mode of procedure which might be adopted in their case, the formality of the preliminary deposition on oath, and the summons now issued by the magistrate in statutary complaints, might be dispensed with, and an entry in a complaint book, duly kept on the plantation for the registry of all complaints, substituted in the lieu of both. On a notice of this complaint being given in writing to the immigrant, and a time for the hearing of the specified charge stated in that notice, the production of the complaint book and the notice served might be deemed sufficient for the purpose of bringing the case to a hearing before the district agent and justice of the peace, with no other attendant expense than a small fee to the magistrate's clerk, for entering the adjudication on the charge thus heard and determined. The authority thus given to the appointed magistrate might be limited to all complaints, under the several Acts of the legislature, having reference to the subsisting relations of master and servant; to trespasses and assaults under the Acts 36th, 40th and 41st of the 7th of William the 4th ; to offences against good order and peace in towns and communities â&#x20AC;˘ and to vagrancy and petty thefts. As the existing remuneration for services performed by sub-agents is only casual, or only available when immigrants, whether from Africa or India, or emancipados, and captured slaves, are distributed and located for the first time in the colony, a process of remuneration 0 32.

3 G 2

for

815 Appendix, No. 1 Emigration. JAMAICA. End. in No. 7.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

412

Appendix, No. l. for the services to be performed in the manner above detailed, might be resorted to under some such return as the following, to the agent-general, and for a warrant of pay under the Emigration. hand of the executive. A payment by the poll or by the enumeration of registered immigrants in a district, might be adopted under the following heads: JAMAICA.

District St. James's, for instance— Encl. in No. 7. By the . By Convicted By the Parts of Ticket of Total. Year. Vagrants. Hire. a Year. Immigrants under contract Casually employed under tickets of hire Convicted vagrants, being persons not included! in the other enumerated heads -J

206

108 43 24 -

TOTAL

381

The payment might be made quarterly, on returns duly certified. It seems to me that this arrangement would be found effective, both to regulate industry, to afford prompt j ustice to complainant and defendant, and to repress vagrancy. I have, &c. (signed) Richard Hill, Acting Agent-general of Immigration.

BRITISH GUIANA.

— No. 1.— (No. 112.)

No. 1. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

EXTRACT

of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey. Government House, Demerara, 2 June 1847. (Received 8 July 1847.)

annexed correspondence and documents relate to the arrival of the barque " Prince Regent" from the Kroo coast, with 108 emigrants. " The ' Prince Regent' was chartered, I understand, by parties in England to proceed to St. Helena, or wherever there was a prospect of obtaining emigrants ; it has made a losing voyage, though it has established a fact, that the Kroomen are very anxious to carry their industry where they will be well paid." " THE

Enclosure in No. 1. Encl. in No. l.

Sir,

Berbice, 15 May 1847. I HAVE the honour to report, for the information of his Excellency the Governor, the arrival of the barque "Prince Regent" from the Kroo coast of Africa on the 13th May, with 108 immigrants, equal to 106 statute adults. This vessel was chartered by five parties in England owning estates in this county, and the people have been located on their respective properties; viz. Plantation Bath, west coast, M'Calmont & Co. Plantation Fowlis, west coast, A. Denoon & Co. Plantation Skeldon Korentyne, A. Denoon & Co. Plantation Reliance, Henry Barclay. Plantation Highbury, Henry Barclay. Plantation Rose Hall, Davidsons & Co. Plantation Friends, Laing Brothers & Co. I shall feel obliged by your informing me whether I am to grant a certificate for bounty on these people, as I see no provision for immigration from the Kroo coast in the ordinance. I have, &c. (signed) John Van Rossum, Immigration Agent, County of Berbice. William Humphrys, Esq. Immigration Agent-general, Demerara. (True copy.) A. F. Baird, Acting Assist. Gov. Secretary.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

413

New Amsterdam, Berbice, 14 May 1847. of Visit of Inspection on Board the Barque " Prince Regent," 287 Tons, 33 Days from Coast of Africa.

HEALTH OFFICER'S REGISTER

817 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

IMMIGRANTS.

Date of Arrival at

Surgeon.

Master.

New Amsterdam.

Men.

13 May 1847

Wm. Lister -

Per Centage of Deaths.

Date of Embarkation.

10 April

1847

S. B. Prynne

FOR HOSPITAL,

Girls.

Men. Women. Boys.

Encl. in No. 1.

Crew. Women

104

Boys.

Girls.

Total.

108

FOR DISTRIBUTION.

Total.

Men. Women. Boys. Girls.

104

Total.

Quarantine recommended.

108

Abstract of Medical Officer's Journal. Since Sick.

Taken on Board Sick.

Men

...

Women

...

Hoys

Girls

...

TOTAL

Total Sick.

| Cured.

Dead.

Remaining.

Chief Diseases.

...

No disease.

General Remarks. 108 Kroomen have come by this vessel; they are all perfectly healthy, not a case of sickness Wing occurred on the passage. The accommodation for them is ample, and of first-rate order. (signed) John B. Beresford, To the Hon. W. B. Wolseley, Acting Government Secretary, &c. &c. &c. British Guiana.

M.D.,

Health Officer.

Her Majesty's sloop " Favourite," Cape Palmas, 4 April 1847. THIS is to certify, that I have been on board the ship " Prince Regent," of London, find and that has master, he shipped William Lister, from the coast in the neighbourhood of Grand Listers 94 male Africans to be conveyed to Berbice, British Guiana, as labourers. inspected said the 94 Africans, and find that all have come on That 1 have mustered and board to be conveyed to Berbice by their own free will. (signed) Alex. Murray, Commander. I certify the above to be a true copy, the original of which is deposited in this office. (signed) R. B. Ritchie, Acting Collector. Custom-House, Berbice, 19 May 1847. (True copy.) (signed) A. F. Baird, Acting Assistant Government Secretary.

The Colony of British Guiana, County of Berbice. To Laing Brothers & Co., Agents for the Charterers of the Barque " Prince Regent." May 1847.â&#x20AC;&#x201D;To passage money from the coast of Africa of equal to 106 statute adult immigrants (as per list herewith), to which immigration agent for this county has attached certificate, at 35 dollars each - $.3,710 Berbice, 19 May 1847. E. D. JE. (signed) (True copy.) (signed) A. F. Baird, Acting Assistant Government Secretary.

0.32.

3 G 3

414

-Appendix, No. 1.

APPENDIX TO THIRD

LIST

EMIGRANTS

Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

No.

REPORT

FROM

THE

on Board the Barque " Prince Regent," IF. Lister, Commander, on leaving the Kroo Coast, 10 April 1847.

NAME.

Where taken ge. Board.

No.

N A M E.

Where taken on Board.

Age.

Encl. in No. i. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

16 17 18 19 20 21 22

23 24 2.5 26 27 28 29 30 3i 32 33 34 35 36

37 38

39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54

Jimbo Tappy Boy Tappy Jim Tappy Tom Freeman Flying Jib Jim Doe John Toby John Fishman Tom Toby Black Will Frying Pan Tom Lee Jack Williams l om Coffee Boy Jumbo Grando Bottle of Beer Jack Freeman New William Ben Coffee Jack Crowbar New Tom Nimble New Toby Black Toby Charley Toby Joe Roberts New Half Dollar Cut Money Little Jumbo Jim Crow Yellow Will Tom Smith Tom Grando Tom Toby Dick Warman Jack Coffee Pea Soup Walker Half Dollar Short Pipe Ben Cqffee Boy Coffee Boy Will Jack Frying Pan Jack Never Fear Small Lock Grando Jack Ropeyarn Jack Davis Foretop Gallant) -/ Sail John Bull Peter Hurricane Boy Davis Jack Will

35 14 20 30 3° 26 20

Great Niffon. „ „ „ „ ,» „ „

" >" „ „

„

26 18

„ „

„

H 20 J8 10 22 20

„ „ „ ,, „ ,,

,, „ „ ,, „ „

19 18

„ „

„

„ „

„

16' *5 l5

„

18 2J 11

„ ?> „

5) „

27 12 40 35 20 18 22 J4 25 14 15

77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88

>, » ,, „ Little Niffon. 91 ,1 „ „ „

„

89 90

9' 92 93 94 95 96 97

„

„ » „

„

*9 20

>» „

,» „

2°

„

99 100 101 102 103 104 105 10G 107 108

„

18 lG 24 »9 2°

George Wilson 23 Jim Charley ]9 Centipede 24 Black Jack 21 Snowball 23 Tar Bucket 18 Tom Jones 25 John Davis 22 Black Will 21 Jack Will 21 Ben Johnson 23 Smallbones lG Peter Simple 16 Midshipman Easy 16 Bottle of Beer - 20 George 22 Rob Roy 19 - 18 Friday Monday 22 Jacob Faithful - 21 Jumbo 20 Grando 19 Jim Wilson 22 Red Royer 14 Blackbird 11 Mesty 17 King's Own 19 Seymour 16 Queen's Own 15 Short Rib lG Albert 14 Innocence 21 Jim Davis J9 Jack Ropeyarn - 17 Jack Freeman 17 Jack Liverpool *9 Jim Man 19 Peter Johnson • 17 Jack William - 20 Tom Coffee 20 Davis 18 Bottle of Gin - 20 Cape Palmas 21 Jack Robson 16 Chew of Tobacco 17 Jack Carally 18 George Canning 20 Jim Wilson '9 Tom Jones 21 Sam Weller iG Tom Davis 16 Boy Crooked 15 Jack Joe 17 Tom Toby 20

55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 G4 65 6(i G7 C8 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76

„ „ Grand Lister. „ „ „ „

104 Adults, equal to 4 Children, equal to

104 Statute Adults, 2 ditto.

108 Emigrants equal to

•

106 Statute Adults.

Grand Lister. 99 99

" 99

Poor River.

» "

99 99 99 » "

99 99 99

99 »

99, 99

Off Garraway.

OffCape Palmas, 99

Cape Palmas.

>9 99

99 99

" '

•

Off Garraway. »

The above list of Emigrants is correct. (signed)

Wm. Lister,

Commander.

Berbice, 17 May 1847. I certify that the above-named emigrants were landed in good health and condition. (signed) Berbice, 18 May 1847.

John Van Rossum, Immigration Agent-

(True copy.) A. F. Baird, (signed) Acting Assistant Government Secretary.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

415

Sir, Berbice, 19 May 1847. WE enclose an account against the colony for passage from the coast of Africa, of 108 Kroomen, per barque " Prince Regent." You will find attached to this account a list of the immigrants, signed by Captain Lister, and certified by the immigration agent at this port. We also forward copy of a letter granted to Captain Lister by Commander Murray, of Her Majesty's sloop " Favorite," dated Cape Palmas, 4th April 1847. The number on board the " Prince Regent" at the time this letter was obtained, was 94; the additional number was taken on board between the 4th and 10th April, after the " Favorite" and " Prince Regent" parted company. The charterers trust that his Excellency the Governor, taking the circumstances of the country into consideration, as well as the excellent description of people thus introduced, the very superior accommodations afforded them, and their having arrived without a single case of sickness on board, will have no hesitation in giving his warrant for the payment, out of the funds set apart for immigration purposes, and at his Excellency's disposal, of the amount of the enclosed account, $ 3,710. The charterers beg to state, for the information of his Excellency the Governor, and which they beg you to communicate, that the loss they will have to bear, supposing the amount of the bounty to be paid, will still be considerable. I have, &c. G. G. Lowenfield, Esq., (signed) Laing, Brothers & Co., Demerara. For selves and others, Charterers of the Financial Accountant, Barque " Prince Regent." (True copy.) (signed) A. F. Baird, Acting Assistant Government Secretary.

819 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

Encl. in No. l.

Immigration Agent-general's Office, British Guiana, Sir, Georgetown, 21 May 1847. THE payment of bounty on Kroomen from the Kroo coast is not specified in the proclamation of his Excellency the Governor. I feel, therefore, that I have no authority to certify the accompanying account which has been referred to me, particularly as there were restrictions laid on vessels going to the Kroo coast for emigrants, with the removal of which 1 have not yet been acquainted. I have, &c. (signed) William Humplirys, The Honourable W. B, Wolseley, Government Secretary. Immigration Agent-general, (True copy.) (signed) A. F. Baird, Acting Assistant Government Secretary. — No. 2.— (No. 206.) of a

from Earl Grey to Governor Light. Downing-street, 22 July 1847. " [ CANNOT sanction any arrangements which contemplate the conveyance of Africans in private ships not under the charge of some person specially employed by Her Majesty's Government, from the coast of Africa to the West Indies. For, setting aside the risk, amounting almost to a certainty, that however strict might be the regulations laid down, and however vigilant the owner of such vessels, abuses would nevertheless creep in. It must be remembered that any such privilege allowed by Great Britain to her own subjects could not be refused to the subjects of other states, and that in this manner the slave trade might, in a short time, be virtually re-established. But even if this extreme result should hot be brought about, the misconstruction and misrepresentation to which the British Government would be exposed at the hands of those whose interest it is to depreciate and deny its good faith in its efforts to suppress the slave trade, would be evils of no small magnitude. I have accordingly to desire that if any application should hereafter be made to you by private parties for permission to proceed to the coast of Africa to obtain emigrants, you will acquaint the applicants that you have received positive instructions to withhold your sanction from any such proceeding. You will further acquaint them, that bounties will not be payable on account of such emigrants, and that the payment of the treble duties chargeable under the Ordinance of 1843 will be strictly enforced. "You will likewise point out to parties proposing to engage in such an undertaking, that under the treaties for the suppression of the slave trade, their vessels will be liable to be detained by Her Majesty's cruizers, as might have been the case with the Prince Regent, and to be seized and proceeded against before the Mixed Commission Court by the cruizers of foreign powers, and that against these risks Her Majesty's Government can give them no protection. " I trust that such warnings will have the effect of deterring any of Her Majesty's subjects from engaging in an enterprise which Her Majesty's Government cannot but discountenance. In the meantime Her Majesty's Government will make every exertion in their power to supply the demand for labour in British Guiana by less objectionable means. Should the experiment now in progress with Her Majesty's ship ' Growler' prove successful, I will endeavour to make such an arrangement for carrying on the emigration from the Kroo coast, under the direct superintendence of the Government, as will, I trust, meet the lair demands of the colonists for an increased supply of labour." 0.32. 3 g4 —No. 3.— EXTRACT

DESPATCH

No. 2. Earl Grey to Governor Light.

APPENDIX

416

THIRD

REPORT

FROM

THE

Appendix, No. 1. BRITISH GUIANA.

(No. 136.) COPY

No. 3. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

See Parl. Papers, N°. 325 of 1847, p. 82.

No. 4. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

—No. 3.— of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey. Government House, Demerara, 3 July 1847.

(Received 5 August 1847.) My Lord, I HAVE the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your Lordship's despatch, No. 162, May, date 1st with communication from the Land and Emigration Commissioners relative to the mortality of emigrants from Madeira. I laid this despatch before the Court of Policy. The prospect of the stoppage of such a source of supply of labour as that now existing at Madeira, has caused much disappointment, but I have not yet obtained any report on the subject. As I calculated that a direct communication would give notice to the inhabitants equally early with a circuitous one by the mail, I have waited till now, when a vessel is about to sail for Madeira, to notify the stoppage of bounty from Madeira. T lie poverty of the inhabitants of Madeira, and the famine from which they suffer, render them eager to quit their own shores for ours. It is certain mortality has been large amongst the new comers, but your Lordship would be surprised to see the result of a few months' enjoyment of the fruits of their industry in British Guiana. The numerous healthy progeny springing up does not seem to be affected by the climate, and it is not at all improbable but that births do not fall far short of deaths. Previous debility and emaciation, which has been the case latterly with most of the arrivals from Madeira, render the ordinary ague fever, called the " colony fever," fatal, which, on temperaments better composed, is subdued by a few doses of quinine. Yellow Fever is an epidemic here of rare occurrence; it is not from this bugbear of the West Indies that great mortality prevails, except at particular seasons; drink, dirt,late hours, and parsimony in regard to food, which, in the eagerness for money, is the characteristic of the Madeira emigrant, render the lower orders of Europeans prone to disease, and that, according to the previous temperament, is either dangerous or trifling; with the Portuguese it has been very fatal. Though the colonial members of the Court of Policy have asserted to me, that, except in epidemical visitations of yellow fever, there is no season more unhealthy than another, yet I am bound to take the opinion of Dr. Blair, the surgeon-general, that the most healthy season here is from September to the end of March. I shall therefore, until I receive further instructions, limit the payment of bounty to those periods which unfortunately, however, or the wants of the colony, are the seasons of brisk employment, in ordinary times, to the aborn ing population of Madeira, and the desire to emigrate is thence diminished. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Light,

— No. 4. — (No. 145.) of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey. Government House, Demerara, 14 July 1847. My Lord, (Received 20 August 1847.) I HAVE the honour to forward the acting immigration agent-general's and health officer's reports of the arrival of the felucca "Senhora da Conceiqao" and schooner " Loyal " from Madeira; both these vessels have brought more than double the number under the Passengers' Act. But your Lordship will read in copy of a letter from the master of the " Loyal," under what circumstances his vessel was filled ; the latter vessel lost three men, one boy, and an infant from dysentery, the result of previous starvation. With respect to the payment of the bounty on the whole number, I must respectfully draw your Lordship's attention to the Act of Parliament, which seems to relate only to the shipment of passengers from English ports, not contemplating the possibility of an emigration taking place from a foreign possession such as Madeira to the West ladies, where the passage is secure in a very short period of time, under the influence of the trade-winds, and in a climate where the greatest number of passengers never go below deck, and, therefore, however roomy or capacious between decks, that space is rarely occupied. Taking the average passage of the whole of the vessels from Madeira from 1 January, the passage is 22 days ; and during the various passages made by vessels from Madeira, with or without bounty, crowded or not crowded, sickness and mortality have been the exceptions of the numbers embarked. Vessels not bringing cargo, and confined by the Passengers'Act to bounty, would not and do not pay, and the advantage to this colony by the introduction of such useful bodies of labourers would cease, if the Passengers' Act were adhered to. Ships touching at Madeira from England, with outward cargo, limit themselves to the numbers embarked according to Act of Parliament. The " Loyal," though an English vessel, was chartered by some enterprising Portuguese, cither here or at Madeira, to transport their starving countrymen to this colony. Nothing daunted by the reported mortality of a large number of them on their first arrival, ,the prospect of a stoppage of the bounty has filled the Portuguese as well as the colonists with dismay. Having taken into consideration that the heightens of the " Loyal" are Portuguese, that she brought no cargo, that the people arrived in good health, and that they received every attention on the voyage, I have treated her as a foreign vessel. I have, &c. Henry Light. (signed) COPY

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

417

Enclosure in No. 4.

821 Appendix, No. 1.

Sir,

Georgetown, 5 July 1847. I HAVE the honour to enclose two reports on the immigrants that arrived on the 3d and 4th instant. The number on board greatly exceeds the number of statute adults admissible, and I have to request you will obtain for me the directions of his Excellency the Governor, whether I am to certify for payment on the full number on board. I beg to remark, however, that the immigrants on board each vessel appeared in good health, and are decidedly a better set of people than those of the preceding two or three arrivals. They state that they are perfectly satisfied with the comfort afforded them, and the general treatment exhibited towards them on their voyage. I have, &c. The Honourable W. B. Wolseley, (signed) Arthur W. Horsford, Government Secretary. Acting Immigration Agent-general. P. S.—I beg also to enclose the Health Officer's Reports, just received.

Georgetown, Demerara, 5 July 1847. of IMMIGRANTS arrived on the 3d day of July 1847, by the Felucca " Senhora da Conceigao," 39 tons, 27 days from Madeira. REPORT

HEALTH OFFICER'S

Master's Name—Manuel Bernardo Bogiganga. Surgeon's Name—None. Quarantine—N one recommended.

Number of Crew—Seven.

Numeral List. Men.

EMIGRANTS.

Embarked, 6 June Died on the voyage Born on the voyage Arrived in port -----For hospital ..... For distribution

Infants. Women.

Boys.

Girls.

TOTAL.

—

26 —

SUMMARY.

Gross number of emigrants embarked .go ..... — Total number sick, as per General Abstract deaths number of Total o ..... Per-centage of deaths to number embarked 0.00 Ditto - - ditto - - to cases of sickness - — Daily average of people sick, Per-centage thereof - — - — Highest number sick in any one day -----........ — Lowest number - ditto

General Remarks on Surgeon's Diary and Journal, Provisions, Water, Vessel, &c. &c. No disease during the voyage, beyond a few cases of sca-sickness. The immigrants a fine healthy looking lot of people. Vessel tolerably clean, but very much overcrowded, and low between decks. Provisions and water good. (signed) John M. Johnstone, Health Officer.

HEALTH

Georgetown, Demerara, 5 July 1847. of IMMIGRANTS arrived on the 3d day of July 1847, by the Schooner " Loyal," 90 tons, 19 days from Madeira.

OFFICER'S

REPORT

Master's Name—David Audain. Number of Crew—Nine. Surgeon's Name—None. Quarantine—None recommended. Numeral List. EMIGRANTS.

Men.

Embarked, 14 June Died on the voyage Born on the voyage ----..... Arrived in port For hospital -----For distribution -

0.32.

Women.

Infants. Boys.

Girls.

TOT A L.

M. 55

48 1

28 -

9 1

8 _

218 5

—

28 1

3 H

213 2 211

Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

Encl. in No. 4.

418

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Appendix, No. 1.

General Abstract of Surgeon's Journal. Emigration.

End. in No. 4.

Since Sick.

Taken on Board Sick.

BRITISH GUIANA.

Men

Total Sick.

Cured.

Women

Remaining.

Dead.

—

Chief Diseases.

Boys

....

Girls

Dysentery.

—

Infants TOTAL

Death List. Age. Date of Admission.

Name.

Maria de Jesus

Francisco Figaro -

An infant

George Jose Gomez de Silva

Goza Gontada

Dysentery

No. of Days Sick.

Disease.

Debility

Dysentery

Ditto -

Date of Death.

19 June 1847

»>

1 July

„

Hospital List. Age. Name.

No. of Days Sick.

Disease. F.

Quitaria Joaquina -

Dysentery

Maria da Silva J (deaf and dumb) J

Ditto -

8 -

General Treatment.

Castor oil and rhubarb. Ditto

ditto.

SUMMARY.

Gross number of emigrants embarked ----- 218 Total number sick, as per General Abstract — Total number of deaths --------5 Per-centage of deaths to number embarked 2.29 Ditto - ditto - to cases of sickness — Daily average of people sick Per-centage — ----— Highest number sick in any one day Lowest number — ditto -----General Remarks on Surgeon's Diary and Journal, Provisions, Water, Vessel, See. Sec. No surgeon on board. Deaths taken from the log-book. People arrive in better order than what have lately been coming, but the vessel very much overcrowded. Provisions and water of first-rate quality. John M. Johnstone, Health Officer. (signed)

REPORT

on the

Port of Demerara, 5 July 1847. by the Ship " Senhora da Conceiqao," which arrived at Demerara from Madeira on the 3d July 1847.

IMMIGRANTS

Name of the master -----Name of the surgeon ----------Date of departure Number of days on the voyage Registered tonnage Superficies of passengers' deck Number of statute adults admissible Number of such adults actually on board -----Number of crew Port at which vessel touched -----Date of touching Days there If placed in quarantine, state the cause -

Manoel Bernardo Biginando. None. 6th June. 27 39 — 24 90 7 None. — — —

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. Emigrants Embarked.

Births on the Voyage.

419

823 Appendix, No. 1.

Deaths on the Voyage.

Emigrants Landed. Emigration.

Adults.

Children under 14.

Total.

Adults.

Children.

Children under 14.

Adults.

F. F.

Infants

BRITISH GUIANA.

Total. Encl. in No. 4.

90 Infants

Here subjoin any remarks that may be proper respecting the general state of health on board, or other circumstances of importance. (signed) Arthur W. Horsford, Acting Government Immigration Agent.

REPORT

on the

Port of Demerara, 5 July 1847. by the Ship " Loyal," which arrived at Demerara from Madeira, on the 4 July 1847.

IMMIGRANTS

Name of the master David Audain. Name of the surgeon None. Date of Departure - 15 June. Number of days on the voyage - 19 Registered tonnage - 90 Superficies of passengers'deck - 40 x 20, also master's cabin 12 x 15. Number of statute adults admissible - 54 Number of such adults actually on board 159| Number of crew ----9 Port at which vessel touched - None. - — Date of touching Days there - — If placed in quarantine, state the cause - —

Emigrants Embarked.

Adults.

Births on the Voyage.

Children under 14.

Adults. Total.

28 17

Emigrants Landed.

Children.

Children under 14.

Adults.

F. M.

218 Infa its

Deaths on the Voyage.

Inf ants

Total.

213 Inf ints -

Here subjoin any remarks that may be proper respecting the general state of health on board, or other circumstances of importance. (signed) Arthur W. Horsford, Acting Government Immigration Agent.

DISTRIBUTION

arrived in the " Loyal," from Madeira, on the 4th July 1847. ------ 45 Plantation Houston - 59 „ Met en Meerzorg„ Enterprize ------ 20 - 49 „ La Resouvenire Hamburgh - 19 „ ----13 GeorgetownHospital of

PORTUGUESE IMMIGRANTS

213 (signed) . Arthur W. Horsford, Acting Immigration Agent-general.

O.32.

3 H a

APPENDIX TO THIRD

420

Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

End. in No. 4.

DISTRIBUTION

REPORT

FROM THE

IMMIGRANTS arrived in the " Senhora da Conceigao," from Madeira, on the 3d July 1847.

PORTUGUESE

------ 40 Plantation Success - 40 „ Vreed en Hoop -10 Georgetown 90 (signed) Arthur W. Horsford, Acting Immigration Agent-general.

Demerara River, Schooner " Loyal," Sunday Morning. Gentlemen, I HAVE just arrived from Madeira, and will come ashore after the emigration agent and doctor have come on board. We had a pleasant run of 19 days. I left the island in a sad state, the people dying every where in large numbers from starvation. I have been obliged to bring a larger number of passengers than at first intended, in consequence of my finding it impossible to keep them out of the vessel, and they were in so sad a state that it was positive charity to allow them to come, and I found no inconvenience during the voyage from taking an extra number; the schooner, although of small tonnage, from the shallow build, has a very large superficial space, and is well adapted for carrying passengers. The voyage was very pleasant, and we had abundance of first quality provisions and water, and the people are now in a far superior condition than when I took them on board. I am, &c. Messrs. Allen, Brothers, & Co., D. Audain. (signed) Georgetown. (A true Copy), W. B. Wolseley, (signed) Acting Government Secretary.

No. 5. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

— No. 5. — (No. 150.) Copy of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey.

Government House, Demerara, 10 July 1847. (Received 20 August 1847.) My Lord, I HAD the honour of acknowledging your Lordship's despatch No. 102, dated l May, by my despatch, No. 136, dated 8 July, relative to the steps I had taken on the subject of emigration from Madeira. See Parl. Paper, No. 325 of 1847, I have now the honour to forward the report of a committee of the Court of Policy, adopted by the court, on the contents of the first-mentioned despatch, particularly on the letter of the Land and Emigration Commissioners touching the mortality amongst the emigrants from P. 82. Madeira. The objections taken to the centesimal proportion of deaths amongst the Portuguese in the rural district, based on the reports of the stipendiary magistrates, may be fairly admitted. The stipendiary magistrate finds from the manager of an estate that he had so many Portuguese on his estates' books, and that of these a certain number have died in each month; but, as is remarked in the report, the magistrate does not take into consideration that although forty or fifty only may be in the daily working list, yet that number may be culled out of double who are or have been located on an estate; supposing this to be the case, the per-centage of deaths is entitled to a proportionate diminution. Though a very large portion of the emigrants from Madeira have turned to the huckstering and shop existence, yet I cannot believe the agricultural portion to be so small as that given by the stipendiary magistrate's returns, in which, in spite of every watchfulness, there must creep errors, either from the change by deaths, absences on leave, or some other contingency, by which returns are inaccurate or not obtained. Though the stoppage of bounty will be a heavy blow to the planter^, yet I do not think it will prevent an influx from Madeira; upwards of 4,000 out of 11,917 came here in a comparatively very short time without bounty. The constant intercourse with Madeira from this province has made its climate, its risks and advantages, familiar to the population of Madeira ; it is their land of promise in times of need. The emigrants come here in all the hideousness of filth of body, dress and mind. I can well remember their first appearance here ; not any change is shown in the successive arrivals—some of the men are well-looking, most of them able-bodied, but both men and women, according to persons familiar with the worst parts of Ireland, might be taken for Irish. What has been the result ? Many of them keep horses, gigs, chaises, dress well, and in contrast with their former appearance are clean as the Creoles; they have spread their enterprise from one end of the province to the other, trade to every door; a traveller might have starved had he no acquaintance on his road; he now may get refreshment at every hundred yards either by land or water to the utmost verge of habitation; if sickness or great mortality should be allowed to check the enterprise of man, the Anglo-Saxon race would not

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

421

825

not have stood so high in the annals of the world. I most respectfully submit that with the Appendix, No. 1. success which is held out to the industrious, in reward for their risks, it would be inexpedient Emigration. to interfere, merely because some deaths have taken place, perhaps anticipating the ordinary and short career of the human race by a few years or weeks, or even days, if reports be true BRITISH GUIANA. of the distress at M adeira. The general bearing of the report is to maintain that the mortality is not greater than might No. 5. he expected; that much of it arises from the filthy habits and penuriousness of the emito grants, and that a stoppage to the source for supplying the withdrawal of the Creoles from Governor Light Earl Grey. field labour will be ruinous, not only to the agricultural interest, but to all parties. Reference is made in the report to a former resolution of Court of Policy on a despatch of Lord Stanley relative to emigration from Madeira, and to this is annexed a copy of the Ordinance No. 4, anno 1847, '' To provide medical attendance and medicines for immigrant labourers," with a list of vessels from Madeira with emigrants from the beginning of this year, where the average passage is 22 days, which might equally be applied to all arrivals from Madeira. On the conclusion of the day's sitting, the court by a resolution prayed me, as by extract minute annexed, to pay the bounty on all emigrants from Madeira, provided they had been properly treated and in good health. As regards foreign vessels I have not hesitated payment on those terms ; for British vessels such payments have not been called for, as the Passengers' Act has already been adhered to. The prospects of the planter have been so benefited by the influx of labourers from Madeiraâ&#x20AC;&#x201D;the crops are so likely to be large from their continued labour afforded to the estatesâ&#x20AC;&#x201D;the merchants have had such good customers from the shopkeepers and hucksters imported, that a prohibition of emigration from Madeira would be now much more severely felt than perhaps from any other quarter whence it is derived. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Light. Enclosure in No. 5. EXTRACT from the MINUTES of the PROCEEDINGS of the Honourable the Court of Policy of the Colony of British Guiana, at its Adjourned Assembly, held at the Guiana Public Buildings, Georgetown, Demerara. Monday, 12 July 1847. [After Prayers.] THE Committee appointed on the 9th instant to report upon "A Letter addressed to James Stephen, Esq., dated Colonial Land and Emigration Office, 23 April 1847, from T. Frederick Elliot and Frederic Rogers, forwarded by the Right honourable Earl Grey, Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State, to his Excellency Governor Light, in Despatch, No. 162, dated Colonial Office, 1 May 1847," brought up their Report, which having been read, it was moved by the Honourable Mr. Jones, seconded by the acting Government Secretary, that the Report be adopted, and that his Excellency the Governor be requested to transmit a copy of the same to the Right honourable the Secretary of State, which was carried nemine contradicente, viz.:â&#x20AC;&#x201D; 1st. Centesimal Returns. I lie Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners state, that the half-yearly centesimal proportion of deaths up to 31 December 1846, shows an alarming amount of mortality among the immigrants from Madeira. Your Committee respectfully report that the returns of the centesimal proportion of deaths, as appears on the Stipendiary#' monthly returns, is manifestly incorrect; the return gives 444 deaths out of 3,588 Portuguese. It appears from the Report of the Immigration Agent-general, that up to the end of last year, 11,917 Portuguese immigrants had arrived in this colony from Madeira, of whom he had direct cognizance, and yet it would appear from the return of the stipendiary magistrates, that very little more than one-fourth of those are located on estates; now it is well known that the greater number of the Portuguese in this country are resident on estates : it is by no means implied that the stipendiary magistrates have made wilfully incorrect returns; but they bave no means of obtaining correct reports, as even the managers of estates from whom they derive information, are not aware ot the exact number they have resident on the estates. The cottages on estates in British Guiana are large and commodious ; the appearance of an estate is like a large village ; the occupier of a cottage very often accommodates a number of his fellow-labourers, who may not even be working on the same estate with himself; the managers judge principally from the number on the pay list. In the event, however, of any death occurring amongst any of the number, the manager is at once applied to, to defray the necessary funeral expenses; and as an entry of this is necessarily made, the stipendiary magistrate is immediately informed thereof; thus any death that occurs appears in his report, whilst his return of those resident on the estates scarcely embraces one-third. Supposing that the returns were correct, which they are not, as will be shown hereafter, they cannot be received as correct data of the mortality, for they only profess to embrace those resident on estates; and it is well known when the immigrants first arrive they are immediately located on the estates and all the deaths are recorded during the time they are acclimatizing. It frequently occurs that during one year an estate may have received 150 immigrants on it, yet at no one period would the returns show more than 50 resident on it; up to December 1846 there was no law in force in British Guiana to compel the residence of immigrants on estates. It therefore generally happened, that after they had recovered from the first sickness they removed from the 0.32. 3 H 3 estate

Encl. in No. 5.

See Parl. Paper, No. 325 of 1847, p. 83.

422 Appendix, No. 1.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

estate where they were first placed, and went to their friends on other plantations, and performed task-work; thus the deaths which took place in seasoning 150 immigrants would, by the magistrate's returns, represent the deaths out of 50, when in reality it should represent the deaths out of the greater number. It has been already stated that the deaths in the cenBRITISH GUIANA. tesimal returns represent 444 deaths to 3,588 Portuguese, whilst the number of Portuguese imported amounted to 11,917. Again, the number of Coolies, shown by the returns, is only End. in No. 5. 3,767, whilst up to the 31st March 1847 the total number imported was 6,861, thus showing 3,094 unaccounted for, when it is notorious that ths of the Coolies are resident on estates. The return now quoted shows a still more remarkable-instance of the inaccuracy of the return from judicial district H,; not a single Portuguese appears to be located in that district; yet it is notorious that many hundreds reside on the estates in that district. Your reporters under all these circumstances consider it unfair to draw inferences respecting the mortality of the Portuguese founded on such inaccurate data. 2d. Lord Stanley's Despatch. Your Committee would beg to refer to a resolution of your Honourable Court, dated 12 December 1845 ; they will merely remark, that by the Immigration Agent-general's returns of the number of Portuguese immigrants introduced into the colony up to September 1846, there were 4,110 on which no bounty was paid, that number having been introduced at the expense of individuals, whilst there were only 1,865 on whom bounty was paid during that year, and those were imported after the month of September. 3d. Causes of Mortality in 1842, and general Health of Portuguese. The principal causes of the great mortality amongst the natives of Madeira in 1842 were, First. During that year yellow fever of a virulent description prevailed in the colony, and was fatal to the white inhabitants, and the seamen on the river. Second. The mortality was no doubt greater than it would otherwise have been amongst the natives of Madeira, from their ignorance of the English language, and from the want of proper interpreters; at that time they could not be made to understand how necessary it was for them to take proper care of themselves ; they absolutely refused to take medicine when sick, and lived almost entirely on unripe fruit and meat in an unwholesome state. The mortality amongst them last year arose in a great measure from the want of proper hospital regulations ; they were allowed immediately on their arrival in the colony, to locate themselves where they pleased, and being over anxious to obtain money, they generally overworked themselves, earning as much as a dollar and a half a day. They were in very few instances indentured to the estates, and being fond of roving about, seldom remained in any one location for a length of time. The proprietors of estates not knowing how long they were likely to retain their services, were naturally averse to fitting up expensive hospitals, and providing with wine, quinine, &c., people who might probably leave them immediately after their health was restored. In the month of December last, an ordinance was passed, in which it was stipulated that " in the absence of any express agreement to the contrary, the hiring of all labourers introduced into this colony at the public expense shall be deemed for a period of six months;" and it is believed, if this period was extended to twelve months, it would be much more conducive to the welfare of the immigrants; the employer of every immigrant labourer has now therefore security that he will obtain the services of the labourer for the above period, and consequently has a direct personal interest in keeping him in good health ; moreover in - the month of March of this present year, another ordinance was passed, by which it was made absolutely imperative on the employer of immigrants to engage, at his own expense, a duly licensed medical practitioner, whose appointment must lie notified to the government secretary, and who is bound to visit them once every 48 hours, and oftener if required; the employer is further bound to provide at his own expense suitable hospital accommodation, and all such medicine and articles of diet and nourishment as may be deemed necessary by the medical practitioner,â&#x20AC;&#x201D;and the stipendiary justice of the district is empowered to enter into any such hospital, at any time he may think fit, to see that the proper regulations are duly enforced. The cases of sickness which are now in the colonial hospital ought not to to be attributed to the climate; on the contrary, they have mainly arisen from the parties having embarked at Madeira in a state of great debility, caused by want of food, almost amounting to starvation ; parties in this weakly and debilitated condition, on embarking on board of vessels where they received abundance of generous food, did not restrict themselves to a diet suited to their state of health, and hence induced the diseases under which they are now suffering. 4th. No bounty should be paid on immigrants from Madeira, except by vessels which sail in some one of the months of October, November, December, or January. Your Committee are of opinion, that the restrictions presented by the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners are unnecessary and uncalled for; they will prove detrimental to the native of Madeira, and inflict a serious injury on the colonists of British Guiana, by depriving them of a useful class of labourers. It has not been shown that the period of the year from January to October in British Guiana is more fatal to the constitution of the natives of Madeira, than the four months to which importation is restricted. It is notorious to every person who has resided in British Guiana for a length of years, that sickness is not peculiar to particular months; on the contrary, several years may pass over without sickness prevailing much, or the existence of any fatal disease, when at times, from the visitation of an epidemic, such as the yellow fever, influenza, dysentery, or measles, these do appear in each month of the year and commit great ravages; fortunately, however, these diseases seldom make their appearance in the colony ; the months prescribed for immigration Emigration.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

423

827

tion under bounty as respects Madeira are peculiarly inappropriate ; it is the season of the Appendix, No. 1. year when employment is most abundant in that island, and there is the least inducement for the natives to leave their homes; at this time there are thousands desirous of coming Emigration. hither, the difficulty is to prevent them from crowding in too great numbers on board the vessels. It should be borne in mind, that the immigration of Portuguese into this colony BRITISH GUIANA. from Madeira is now of a different character to what it was formerly, and widely different from the immigration which takes place from Great Britain and Ireland, for Madeira people End. in No. 5. have now learned to consider this colony as their future home; they have in fact expatriated themselves from their native country, and the whole members of a family come hither, the healthy and the sickly, the young and the old; the mortality amongst these people is therefore not to be reckoned by the common standard; nor should the salubrity of the climate of the colony be questioned under such circumstances; on the contrary, there is abundant proof that the climate of British Guiana is peculiarly well adapted and congenial to the health of the natives of Madeira. In addition to their own experience, your Committee have made diligent inquiry on this subject, and the statements they have made are corroborated by those who have had the best opportunities of forming a correct opinion, namely, the proprietors, medical practitioners, attorneys, and managers resident in the rural districts. Your Committee would, however, in reference to the general salubrity of the climate and its suitableness to the natives of Madeira, except the upper districts of the livers, which have been found extremely prejudicial to their health on their first arrival in the colony; it is therefore recommended, that in future none should, on their first arrival, be located in the upper districts of the rivers. With every deference and respect for the opinions of the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners, as expressed in their letter of 23 April 1847, your Committee must dissent from those they have enunciated in the recommendations they have made to the Right honourable Earl Grey, but are willing to believe they were influenced by the purest motives. Your Committee under existing circumstances fearlessly maintain, that sound policy and humanity alike point to the encouraging the natives of Madeira to come hither, and to give every means by the payment of bounty to enable them to deport themselves from destitution and starvation, to a land where soon any of their countrymen by a few years' industry have accumulated considerable property. It must be remembered that the passage from Madeira is short, the average not exceeding 22 days, at all seasons of the year; the trade wind is in favour of the vessels coming to the West Indies; it is a most agreeable voyage, and almost a certain one, consequent on the trade winds being always favourable, very unlike a voyage from Great Britain to North America. From the shortness of the passage and the mildness of the climate, your Committee are of opinion that vessels from Madeira should not come under the Passenger Act; that it would prove a sufficient protection to the passengers being properly treated, if the vessel was deprived of the bounty on passengers, when any well-founded complaint of ill usage to the passengers, or any privations from the want of wholesome food or water was established. It has been shown in the case of the brig " Rienza," from Madeira, and of the brig " Rufus," from Sierra Leone, that the local authorities watch narrowly the state of vessels bringing passengers hither; therefore the payment of bounty to vessels bringing passengers from Madeira might safely be left to the discretion of his Excellency the Governor. In conclusion, your Committee respectfully submit that the interference of the British Government with the importation of labourers from a foreign country, where destitution and starvation prevail, into this colony, where they are certain of bettering their situation, is alike contrary to sound policy and the dictates of humanity; the colonists look up to the Right honourable Earl Grey for support in every legitimate effort to procure labourers, and enable them to meet the coming crisis of the unrestricted importation into Great Britain of sugar produced in foreign countries where slavery exists, and feel confident, on a reconsideration of the subject, his Lordship will withdraw the restrictions recommended by the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners, and until his Lordship's pleasure shall be ascertained, respectfully request his Excellency the Governor to withdraw or cancel the Government Notice of 5th July. All of which your Committee respectfully report. Peter Hose. Jno. throat. (signed) James Stuart. Jas. T. White. Demerara, 12 July 1847. (True Copy.) W. B. Wolseley, Acting Secretary.

APPENDIX.

(A.) EXTRACT from the MINUTES of the PROCEEDINGS of the Honourable the Court of Policy of the Colony of British Guiana, at its Adjourned Assembly, held at the Guiana Public Buildings, Georgetown, Demerara. Friday, 12 December 1845. [After Prayers.] THE Honourable Mr. Rose, in reference to the Secretary of State's despatch on the introduction of one thousand emigrants from Madeira, at certain months of the year, to be named by the Surgeon-general of the colony, moved the following resolution, which was seconded by the Honourable Mr. Croal; viz. 0.32. 3 H 4 " The

Appendix

(A.)

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

424 Appendix No. 1. BRITISH GUIANA

Encl. in No. 5.

See Parl. Paper, No. 691, Part 2, of 1846, p. 56.

" The Court having duly considered the despatch of the Right honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, dated 31 October 1845, on the subject of Immigration from Madeira, cannot admit the propriety of the restrictions put upon immigration from Madeira by his Lordship; the introduction of 1,000, which his Lordship is pleased to permit, as an experiment, appears to this Court to be neither more nor less than a restriction solely to impede immigration. The natives of Madeira were introduced into this colony by private enterprise, under contract, so far back as 183(5; it was only when the British Government prevented private enterprise, by prohibiting contracts being entered into for more than one year, and that, within the colony, this source of the supply of labour was stopped; subsequently to the passing of the Order in Council containing these restrictions, immigrants were introduced into the colony at the public expense; the immigrants thus introduced have been of the greatest benefit to the colony; for some years several estates have been kept in cultivation by their labour. It has been found, by the medical statistics ofthe colony, that they are healthy, and that the climate is congenial to their constitutions; by their industry and frugality they have amassed large sums, have purchased vessels, which they have employed in bringing their countrymen into the colony; in fact, within the last five months they have introduced 553 immigrants, thus showing that the inhabitants of Madeira are most anxious to come hither with a view of benefiting their condition. In the face of all these facts, Her Majesty's Government call this an experiment, and limit the number of immigrants to be introduced under bounty to 1,000. " The Court most respectfully submit, that the restrictions imposed on the introduction of labourers, by Her Majesty's Government, have marred every scheme which the colonists have attempted to carry into effect for their introduction ; individuals have been brought to the brink of ruin for the want of labourers to cultivate their estates, and the prosperity of the colony jeopardised. " The Court have willingly acceded to the views of Her Majesty's Government, in the regulations for the introduction of immigrants from India and Africa, but cannot comprehend on what principle individuals are prevented from introducing labourers from the Cape de Verds, the Canaries, Madeira, and the Azores. The natives of these islands are intelligent, and understand the nature of the agreements they enter into ; and it has been abundantly proved that the natives of Madeira are industrious labourers, that they have alike bettered their own condition and added to the resources of the colony. " Under these circumstances the Court have come most reluctantly to the conclusion, that it is not advisable to accept the offer of the Right honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, under the restrictions contained in his Lordship's despatch, considering that it would be more conducive to the interest of the colony to allow immigration from Madeira to depend entirely on individual enterprise, encouraged by permission for the immigrants to enter into indentures for a period of three years; the wants of the colony are pressing and urgent, and it has already been found that the people of Madeira are most anxious to emigrate to this colony ; the Court can see no just reason why restrictions on the labour market from the places indicated should be any longer continued. " The Court do therefore most respectfully and most earnestly request his Excellency the Governor to press on the immediate attention of Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies, the necessity of allowing individuals to bring labourers from the Cape de Verds, the Canaries, Madeira, and the Azores, and such other countries, the inhabitants of which are sufficiently intelligent to understand the nature of an agreement, under indentures, for a period of three years; by which means the Immigration Fund would be reserved for the introduction of immigrants from India and Africa, and a large supply of useful labourers would be introduced into the colony. Court of Policy, 12 December 1845. Ordered, I hat the said Resolution be declared to be adopted ; the Government Secretary, the Collector of the Customs, the Attorney-general, and the Chief Justice declining to vote. (True Extract.) W. 11. Wolseley, Acting Secretary.

(B.)

BRITISH GUIANA. Appendix (B.)

(No. 4.)

[Court of Policy.]

An ORDINANCE to provide Medical Attendance and Medicines for Immigrant Labourers. by his Excellency Henry Light, Esq., Governor and Commanderin-Chief in and over the Colony of British Guiana, Vice-Admiral and Ordinary of the same, &c. &c. See., by and with the Advice and Consent of the Honourable the Court of Policy of said Colony.

ORDINANCE ENACTED

Preamble,

To all whom these presents do, may, or shall come, greeting ! be it known : Whereas it is expedient to define, by Ordinance, the obligations vvhich attach to employers of immigrant labourers, and of immigrant labourers towards their employers, in respect of medicines and medical attendance; and for the proper regulation of hospitals in the rural districts of the colony : 1. Be

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

425

829 Appendix, No. 1.

1. Be it enacted by his Excellency the Governor of British Guiana, with the advice and consent of the Court of Policy thereof, that upon and after the publication of this Ordinance BRITISH GUIANA. every person employing on any plantation, or otherwise, immigrant labourers under contract for six or twelve months, as the case may be, shall engage, at his own expense, a duly Medical practitioners to be emlicensed medical practitioner to visit such immigrant labourers once in every forty-eight ployed. hours, and oftener, if required. 2. Every such employer shall notify to the Government secretary, for the time being, Name of medical the name of every medical practitioner, within ten days after the appointment of such medical practitioner to be notified. practitioner. 3. Every such employer shall, at his own expense, provide on such plantation, or other Hospital, &c. to be place where such immigrants shall be employed, a suitable hospital, with all such nurses, provided. attendants, furniture and utensils as shall be deemed necessary by the medical practitioner. 4. Every medical practitioner shall keep a register in each hospital, in the form annexed, Register to be kept and shall enter in such register the name of each immigrant labourer suffering from sick- in hospital. ness or disease, and shall prescribe in such register such medicines and articles of diet and nourishment as may, in his j udgment, be necessary for restoration to health of the patient. 5. That an abstract, in the form annexed, of every such register, signed by the employer Abstract of register and the medical practitioner, shall be prepared and transmitted by the employer quarterly to be transmitted to the Governor, the first of such quarters to commence on the 1st day of April next after to Governor. the publication of this Ordinance, and all such abstract registers shall be laid by the Governor before the Court of Policy. 6. Every employer shall provide and supply, at his own expense, all such medicines and Medicine to be proarticles of diet and nourishment as shall be prescribed or deemed necessary by the medical vided. practitioner. 7. Every employer of immigrant labourers shall be bound and he is hereby authorized Emigrant comto compel every immigrant in his employ to enter the hospital as soon as it shall come to pelled to enter hoshis knowledge that such immigrant is attacked with any illness, or is suffering from any pital. sore, wound, malady or complaint, there to await the inspection of the medical practitioner on his next visit. 8. Every immigrant labourer whom, on account of illness, sores, or any other disease or Immigrant may be complaint, the medical practitioner shall deem it necessary to restrict to the hospital or any compelled to reapartment thereof, for the purpose of cure, shall be bound, and if necessary, may be com - main in hospital. pelled, to submit to such restriction, and shall be subject to all such regulations as shall be established by the medical practitioner of such hospital for the discipline and order thereof. 9. That there shall be a board of visitors for the superintendence of all hospitals in each Board of visitors. district, and that such board of visitors shall consist of the stipendiary justice of such district, and any two justices of the peace residing therein. 10. That any one or more of the members of such board may enter any hospital within Member of board his district, at any time during the day, to inspect such hospital, its register, and accom- may enter hospital modations, and to hear and receive any complaint that may be made by the medical prac- at any time. titioner, or by any nurse, attendant or patient. 11. That a majority of such board of visitors, on evidence adduced to their satisfaction that any employer has not provided and supplied for any hospital all such nurses, attendants, furniture and utensils, and for the patients all such medicines and articles of diet and nourishment as have been deemed necessary or ordered by the medical practitioner, shall forthwith provide and supply all such required nurses, attendants, furniture, utensils, medicines, articles of diet and nourishment; and for the costs and charges thereof, if not paid on demand, shall issue their warrant and levy upon and sell any chattels of or belonging to any such plantation, or any such employer.

Board of visitors may provide nurses, &c. at expense of employer.

12. That in all cases where any immigrant shall be bound to work for his employer for Charge for medical the period of six or twelve months or upwards, no charge shall be brought by or allowed to attendance when any employer for the medical and other attendance during his sickness or confinement to not allowed. the hospital, or for any medicines or nourishment provided and supplied to any such immigrant during his sickness or confinement to the hospital. 13. That in every case in which an immigrant labourer, not bound to work for his em- Charge for medical ployer for six or twelve months or upwards, shall have been in the hospital of his employer, attendance when and shall have been there taken care of in sickness, or whilst suffering from any sores, allowed. wound or complaint, such immigrant labourer shall, upon his restoration to health be bound to work for such employer until he shall have repaid to him all costs, charges and expenses of such sickness, medicines and nourishment, or shall reimburse all such costs charges and expenses; and the amount of all such costs, charges and expenses, in the event of dispute, shall be settled and determined by a majority of the board of visitors hereinbefore mentioned. 14. Where two or more plantations or places are so situated in the same district that one One hospital may hospital may be conveniently established for the accommodation of the immigrant be established for 0.32. labourers 3 I

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

426

labourers on each of said plantations or places, the proprietors of each of said plantations or places may establish one hospital, at their joint expense, for the accommodation of the two or more plan- sick immigrant labourers of each of said plantations or places; and every such hospital tations. shall be established under contract by the proprietors of such plantations or places, and shall be subject to such rules and regulations as shall from time to time be approved ot by, and passed by resolution of, the Governor and Court of Policy ; and all such rules and regulations, so approved of and passed, shall be as binding upon all parties whom they shall concern as if embodied in this Ordinance. 15. If any employer or immigrant labourer aforesaid shall refuse, neglect or omit to Penalty for neglect of Ordinance. do or perform any matter or thing which such employer or immigrant labourer is, by this Ordinance, required to do or perform, the employer or immigrant labourer so offending, for and in respect of every such offence, shall incur and become liable to a fine of not less than One dollar, nor more than Forty-eight dollars; and every such fine shall be recoverable, on conviction, in the same manner as all other fines of similar amounts are recoverable in this colony; and from every conviction for a sum not exceeding Ten dollars, an appeal may be made in the manner and form prescribed by Ordinance No. 28, of the year 1846. Appendix, No. 1.

16. Within the meaning and for the purposes of this Ordinance, all masters, mistresses, foremen, attorneys, agents, managers, overseers, clerks, and other persons, engaged in the hiring or superintending the labour or services "of any immigrant labourer, shall be and be deemed employers; that the words "hospital furniture" shall include all beds, blankets, sheets, and other things necessary for the comfort of a sick person ; that the word " nourishment" shall mean and include wine, and every species and kind of nutriment ordered by the medical practitioner; that any term importing the singular number shall include tn plural, and any term importing the plural number shall include the singular; and where any term shall be used importing the male gender, the female gender shall be taken to be included, except it be otherwise specially provided, or there be something in the contex repugnant to such construction. take 17. And be it further enacted, that this Ordinance shall come into operation and Ordinance when to effect fourteen days from and after the day of the publication thereof. take effect. be 18. And that no ignorance may be pretended of this Ordinance, these presents shall printed and published in the customary manner.

Interpretations in Ordinance.

Thus done and enacted at our Adjourned Assembly, held at the Guiana Public Buildings, Georgetown, Demerara, this Sixteenth day of March One thousan eight hundred and Forty-seven, and published on the same day. (signed)

Henri/ Light

By Command of the Court, W. B. Wolseley, Acting Secretary-

Name. *

* + ++ ยง and

Native Country.f

Si) Sex. <1

Time in Colony,

Number of Times in Hospital during Quarter.

HOSPITAL.

Date of Admission.

Disease on Admission.

Date of Discharge.

Result $

If a Coolie, father's name should also be given, as in the passports, If a Coolie, state whether Madras or Calcutta. If African, his nation, Memorandum. The two last columns to be made up on day of discharge. . e Whether death, cure, or invaliding. If death, whether primary or secondary disease, ' what.

DIET SCALE OF PLANTATION

HOSPITAL.

Spoon diet as in Colonial Hospital. Fish diet ditto ditto. Coolie diet ditto ditto. Extras to be specially prescribed by medical attendant.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON

SUGAR AND

COFFEE PLANTING.

427

QUARTERLY ABSTRACT OF REGISTER OF PLANTATION HOSPITAL.

831 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration.

Number Admitted.

Number Discharged.

Deaths. BRITISH GUIANA.

End. in No. 5.

(C.)

A Appendix (C.)

Vessels from Madeira, and their passages:— 1847. Days. ----Jan. 28. Brig Lancaster - 22 March 18. Brig Peru ----25 „ 22. Schooner Rio Douro ------ 24 April 9. Brig Duas Annas -------30 „ 25. Barque John Willis ------ 16 May 14. Brig Amelia ------- 21 „ 18. Ship Eleanor -17 „ — Schooner Eugenia - 16 June 30. Ship Tartar --------24 24. Brigantine

„

--------19

-19 4. Schooner Loyal — Felucca Da Conçeiçao ------ 27

July „

260

For 12 vessels give an average of 22 days. (signed) 12 July 1847.

W. E. Pain, Sec. Com. of Pilotage.

from the MINUTES of the PROCEEDINGS of the Honourable the Court of Policy of the Colony of British Guiana, at its adjourned Assembly, held at the Guiana Public Buildings, Georgetown, Demerara.

EXTRACT

THE

Monday, 12 July 1847. [After Prayers.] Honourable Mr. Rose, in pursuance of notice, then moved the following resolution,

This Court recommend his Excellency the Governor to authorize the payment of the Pas sage-money on passengers brought into this colony from the Island of Madeira, in good halth, on the immigration agent-general's certificate to that effect, without reference to the numbers of passengers; the average passage of all the vessels which have arrived from there this year being only 22 days. The Honourable Mr. Jones having seconded the same, the sense of the Court was tab en, declared to be carried; the Chief Justice and Attorney-General declining to the resolution (A true Extract.) W. B. Wolseley, Acting Secretary.

— No. 6.— (No. 232.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

Sir, Downing-street, 7 October 1847. * Nos. 136, 3 July ; HAVE received your despatches noted in the margin,* accompanied by a report of a 145, 14 July; 160, Committee of the Court of Policy adopted by the Court, on the subject of my despatch of 16 July.

1st May last, No. 162, which enclosed the copy of a report from the Land and Emigrant Commissioners, relating to the mortality amongst the emigrants from Madeira, I have referred these despatches to the Land and Emigration Commissioners, and I transmit to you, for your information and guidance, the copies of two reports which they have made upon them. Under all the circumstances of the case, I concur with yourself and the Court of Policy tanking that this emigration should continue for the present; but I do not feel so certain 0.32. 3 12 as

the

No. 6. Earl Grey to Governor Light.

See Pari. Paper, No,

325 of 1847, p. 82.

3 Sept. 20 Sept.

428 Appendix, No. 1.

Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

No. 6. Earl Grey to Governor Light. Encl. 1, in No. 6.

No.

136, 3

July

1847.

End. a, in No. 6.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

as to the propriety of departing from the rule which restricts it to the months of the year which have been considered the most healthy, viz., from September to March. Before that time shall have expired, however, you will have had sufficient experience from this year's emigration to form a more accurate opinion upon this point, and I shall await the receipt of your report upon it before I come to any decision. I have, &c. (signed) Grey.

Enclosure 1, in No. 6. Colonial Land and Emigration Office, Sir, 3 September 1847. WE have the honour to acknowledge your letter of the 24th ult., enclosing a despatch from the Governor of British Guiana, in which he states that he has taken measures for discontinuing the payment of bounty upon emigrants from Madeira, except during what is said by the Surgeon-general, Dr. Blair, to be the healthy period for immigration, i. e. from September to March, inclusive. This temporary cessation of bounty immigration appears to have caused disappointment to the planters, but no statements are at present adduced to disprove its necessity, which, on the contrary, appears to be further shown by the fact, that the disease, called the " Colony Fever" had been peculiarly fatal to immigrants from Madeira, in the emaciated state in which they at present arrive. With regard to the resumption of emigration from the beginning of this month, which is involved in the Governor's proceedings, we have the honour to report that the improved accounts which have been recently received from St. Vincent and Trinidad, together with the very favourable account given by Governor Light of the thriving state of the Portuguese emigrants who become acclimatized in British Guiana, dispose us to hope that the emigration may be renewed with advantage at the proper time. With a view also of preventing, as far as practicable, the mortality which the Governor admits to have taken place, it may be advisable to draw his attention to the necessity of exercising increased care, as is done in the Island of St. Vincent, that the newly arrived immigrants may be located on none but healthy estates. We have, &c. James Stephen, Esq. (signed) T. F. Elliot. &c. &c. &c. Frederic Rogers.

Enclosure 2, in No. 6.

Colonial Land and Emigration Office, Sir, 20 September 1847. WE have the honour to acknowledge your letters of the 7th and 8th instant, enclosing No. 145, 14 July. copies of despatches from the Governor of British Guiana, one of which reports the arrival No. 150, lb JulY of two emigrant ships from Madeira, and the other transmits a report of the Court of Policy, 1847. with reference to the proposed stoppage of bounty on labourers corning from that island. It will be remembered that owing to the mortality which was officially reported to have taken place among these persons in Trinidad and British Guiana, and the unsatisfactory accounts of their health at St. Vincent, Lord Grey directed the governors of those islands to stop the payment of bounty during certain months supposed to be unsuited for emigration, reserving for future consideration the question whether that bounty should be at all resumed. The amount of the alleged mortality which led to this conclusion will be found stated in our report of 23d April last. It appears by later despatches that no serious mortality has taken place at St. Vincent's, and that the mortality at Trinidad has not continued to the same extent. But it has not been thought proper to decide finally on the question of resuming this emigration until a report had also arrived from British Guiana, to which the largest amount of emigration from Madeira has taken place. This report is now received, and raises three questions, viz.: first, whether the bounty emigration should be resumed at all; secondly, whether, if so, the provisions of the Passengers' Act should be enforced on vessels employed in it; and thirdly, whether the emigration, if resumed, should be confined to what are supposed to be the healthy months. With regard to the first of these questions the Court of Policy argue that the returns of the centesimal proportion of deaths made by the stipendiary magistrate arc incorrect, the number of deaths being fully recorded, while the number of emigrants among whom those deaths take place is most imperfectly so; they ascribe the mortality which has occurred to the want of cleanliness and medical care among the emigrants, to obviate which a stringent hospital Ordinance has recently been passed; and they anticipate a suggestion which we had the honour to make in a recent report that greater precautions should be taken to locate the emigrants on their first arrival in healthy situations. Finally, both the Court of Policy and the Governor represent in the strongest terms the benefits which these immigrants confer on the colony, and their own prosperous and improving condition, contrasting the latter with the miserable state in which they exist in their own country, and still arrive in British Guiana. We

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We have but, little means of judging of the accuracy of the stipendiary magistrate's Appendix, No. 1. reports. The Governor appears to consider that they may be inaccurate, but not to the extent Emigration. supposed ; and it is clear that a very considerable mortality has taken place. But considering the precautions which have been and are to be taken to secure the health of the immigrants, and the important advantages which their arrival secures on themselves and the colony, we BRITISH GUIANA. have no hesitation in recommending that the emigration (which must have been already Encl. 2, in No. 6. re-opened by the Governor) should be allowed to proceed. With regard to the second point, the Guiana Emigration Ordinance requires that no bounty should be paid except when the provisions of the Passengers Act have been observed. But the Governor, acting on an address of the Court of Policy, has decided not to enforce this exception in the case of foreign vessels, though he would have considered himself bound to do so with regard to British ships. We think this construction of the Ordinance mistaken. But we are not inclined to dwell on this point, because we think, with the Court of Policy, that the restriction might safely be removed. The passage is one of 22 days only, before a constant trade-wind, and in a climate in which the passengers can, and do, spend the night and day upon the deck. And the experience of the last year has amply shown that numbers far exceeding those allowed by the English Act can be carried from Madeira to the West Indies without any danger to their health. While the law exists it should be observed ; but we do not see any objection to a repeal of so much of the Immigration Ordinance as requires emigrant vessels from Madeira to conform to the British Passengers Act as a condition of receiving bounty; if, as proposed by the Court of Policy, the Governor is authorized to refuse bounty on proof that the passengers have been inadequately fed, or improperly treated during the voyage. Lastly, with regard to the proposed restriction of emigration to what are alleged to be the healthy months, from September to March inclusive. The Court of Policy having endeavoured to show that the actual mortality has been exaggerated, and is not of sufficient importance to outbalance the advantages of the emigration, proceed to state that they have made inquiries in every quarter, and cannot ascertain that any months are peculiarly unfavourable to the arrival of immigrants, and they observe that the proposed restriction would operate very unfavourably on the emigration, as the prohibited months are precisely those in which want of employment renders the people of Madeira most anxious to leave their country. We cannot persuade ourselves that these statements of the Court of Policy, which do not allege any particulars or cite any authority, and on which the Governor expresses no opinion, are of sufficient weight to justify the Secretary of State in rejecting the opinion of the Surgeon-general respecting the unhealthiness of certain months, which derive additional weight from the recommendations which it has been found necessary to make from Trinidad. But we are quite sensible of the inconvenience of checking an emigration which we concur with the Court of Policy in believing to be so highly beneficial to all parties; and we should be exceedingly unwilling to recommend a course which would have that effect, without the fullest consideration. As therefore the question at issue will not practically arise until next April, which is the first of the prohibited months, we would beg to recommend that no definitive decision should be taken on this point until the Secretary of State shall be more accurately informed of the extent of mortality arising out of this year's immigration, and of the effect of the sanitary precautions which have been or are to be enforced by the authorities; and that in the meantime, the Governor be requested to obtain in the colony such information as shall best enable the Secretary of State to decide between these conflicting statements. We have only to add, that the conclusions at which we have arrived, with respect to British Guiana, appear to us also applicable on analogous grounds to St. Vincent and Trinidad, excepting that in those islands we do not understand that any doubt has arisen on the necessity of confining the emigration to a healthy season. We have, &c. (signed) T. F. Elliot. Frederic Rogers.

James Stephen, Esq. &c. &c. &c.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 7.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 194.) COPY

No. 7. Earl Grey to Lord Harris.

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

My Lord, Downing-street, 5 July 1847. See Pari. Papers, W ITH reference to my despatch of the 16th ultimo, I have now to acquaint you that, for No. 325, of 1847, the reasons stated in the enclosed copy of a report from the Colonial Land and Emigration P- 97Commissioners, 1 have approved of their providing tonnage for two-thirds only of the coolie emigrants, to be sent to the West Indies during this season, leaving the emigration agents 21 June 1847. at Calcutta and Madras to provide for the remaining third. I have, &c. Grey. (signed) 0.32.

3 * 3

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

430 Appendix, No. 1.

Enclosure in No. 7.

Emigration.

Sir, Colonial Land and Emigration Office, 21 June 1847. WITH reference to your letter of the 15th instant, acquainting us that Earl Grey had sanctioned an emigration of 5,000 coolies to British Guiana, and 1,000 to Trinidad, and that the tonnage for the whole might be taken up in this country, we beg leave to apply for leave Encl. in No. 7. to deviate to a certain extent from the latter part of this decision. We feel doubts, as Lord Grey is aware, whether the Indian agents could succeed in obtaining the whole of the tonnage for the emigration ; and it has since appeared that the committee of West India merchants entertain a decided opinion to the same effect. But since the question was under consideration in reference to Mr. Caird's letter, we may observe, first, that Captain Wilson has expressed his belief, that at Madras also he could obtain shipping; and secondly, that the lapse of time has rendered it very unlikely that we could secure vessels in England for the earlier dates in India, except at a great disadvantage. We would propose, therefore, so far to modify the scheme previously contemplated, that the Indian agents should be instructed to hire vessels to the extent of one-third of the whole proposed emigration to the West Indies. Should this course be adopted, we would suggest that communications ought to go to Mr. Caird and Captain Wilson by the mail of the 24th instant, informing them that it is intended to despatch 3,000 coolies from Calcutta, and 3,000 from Madras, of whom about 500 will in each case proceed to Trinidad, and the rest to British Guiana, and instructing them to commence without delay their arrangements for collecting the requisite number of emigrants. It also appears advisable to apprize them, that they will be required to take up about one-third of the shipping necessary for this emigration; but in order to afford them a guide to the proper prices, that they are not actually to engage any vessels until they learn by the next mail the result of the contracts, which will be made by this Board in London. The enclosed advertisement, of which we would suggest that a copy be sent to the agents, will show them the periods for which shipping will be engaged here. We have, &c. James Stephen, Esq. T. Fred. Elliot. (signed) &c. &c. &c. Frederic Rogers.

BRITISH GUIANA.

COOLY EMIGRANT SHIPS WANTED.—Her Majesty's Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners hereby give notice, that on Tuesday next, the 29th instant, they will be ready to treat, for shipping for the conveyance of Indian emigrants from Calcutta and Madras to British Guiana and Trinidad; the shipowner to be guaranteed a full complement of passengers, not exceeding, however, 350 adults in any ship. Parties must tender each ship to be ready for the reception of passengers on some one of the undermentioned days. There will be no objection to receive tenders of ships which have already sailed for India. Calcutta. Madras. 1 December 1847. 20 December 1847. 20 December 1847. 1 January 1848. 1 January 1848. 20 January 1848. 20 January 1848. 1 February 1848.

The tenders will be opened at this office on Tuesday, the 29th June, at 12 o'clock, and parties tendering must attend personally, or by agents authorized to act on their behalf. The Commissioners do not pledge themselves to accept the lowest or any tender. Forms of tender and all other particulars may be obtained on application personally, or by letter, at the office of the Commissioners, or else at the offices of the following Government emigration agents: Lieutenant Lean, R.N., 70, Lower Thames-street, London; Lieutenant Hodder, R.N., Liverpool; Lieutenant Forrest, R.N., Glasgow. By order of the Board, Colonial Land and Emigration Office, S. Walcot, Secretary. 9, Park-street, Westminster, 19 June 1847.

— No. 8.— (No. 195.) COPY

No. 8. Farl Grey to Governor Light.

3 July.

of a

DESPATCH

from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

Downing-street, 6 July 1847. I ENCLOSE herewith, for your information, a copy of a report from the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners, showing the arrangements they have made for providing tonnage for the conveyance of the coolie emigrants to the West Indies. I have, &c. (signed) Grey. Sir,

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835 Appendix, No. 1.

Enclosure in No. 8. Colonial Land and Emigration Office, Sir, 3 July 1847. WITH reference to your letter of the 15th ultimo, authorizing us to engage shipping for the conveyance of coolies to Demerara and Trinidad, we have the honour to state that we understand that Lord Grey assented to the suggestion contained in our letter of the 21st ultimo, that under the peculiar circumstances of the year, only two-thirds of the whole quantity of shipping required should be taken in England, and the remainder in India. We issued our advertisements accordingly. Prices, as Lord Grey is aware, are very high this year, and we heard it intimated that we might expect to find it necessary to pay even 20 /. a head. We have the satisfaction, however, of reporting that we have succeeded in engaging 14 ships at an average price of 15 I. 9 s. 8 d. a head. The highest price for any one ship is not even quite equal to the highest price last year, but from the smaller total number of vessels, and the greater proportion of those which are at comparatively high rates, the average price is about 16 s. a head more than in 1846. Eight of the vessels have made voyages with coolies before, which we think an advantage, because it secures experience in the commander, and most probably in some of the other officers. The highest prices, as usual, were required for those ships which were wanted at comparatively short notice. Considering the moderate rate of freight in all the other cases, we should trust that the Indian agents, if not disappointed in their hope of commanding an abundant supply of shipping, will be able to obtain very reasonable terms. One of the ships in our contract is engaged at the extremely low rate of 12 I. 19 s. a head; and although this must be viewed as a special case, one-half are taken under 15 I. a head. The numbers for which it was necessary that we should provide were 2,000 from each presidency. Proceeding on the average number which vessels carried last year, we estimate that the ships we have engaged from Madras will carry 2,007 adults. This closes our contract for that place, and it will be for Captain Wilson to find conveyance for 1,000 more. For Calcutta, we estimate that the ships already engaged will convey about 1,578 adults; and we intend to engage two more vessels for that port, in order to complete the requisite number. It will then be for Mr. Caird to find ships for about 1,000 more. We would suggest, that Mr. Caird and Captain Wilson be instructed, that as only twothirds of the emigration are provided for in the vessels which we send out, it will be for them to engage the rest, in the manner and at the time which may best suit their stations ; and therefore, that it will be the more incumbent on them to avoid all risks of forfeiture or of demurrage. They should further be instructed to send from each port one ship to Trinidad, besides those which we have engaged, and to send all the rest to British Guiana. A few of the latter must be engaged to proceed to Berbice, but until the next mail, we cannot say how many, as it will depend on our next contract. As crop-time is confined to the beginning of the year in Trinidad, but lasts all the year in Guiana, we would request that each of the agents be instructed to name one of the first vessels they hire for Trinidad. We presume that the remark we have made on the moderate prices of the vessels which had sufficiently long notice will be communicated to the agents for their information, and to assist them in making contracts, although we think it should be explained to them, that the Secretary of State does not undertake positively to fix any definite limit of price, but wishes them to adopt the best course which circumstances will admit. Their attention should be drawn to the circumstance, that by the second clause of the charter-party, they are not bound to place more than 350 adults on board any one vessel, whatever may be her size. It would be desirable to draw the attention of the governors to the circumstance, that in making contracts this year, we have reverted to the mode of payment agreed for in 1846, and have stipulated that the passage-money shall be paid in the colonies themselves, either in cash, or by bills upon England, as the governors may prefer. We have, &c. (signed) T. Fred. Elliot. Frederic Rogers.

Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

Encl. in No. 8.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 9.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 158.) COPY

of a

DESPATCH

from Governor Light to Earl Grey.

Government House, Demerara, 13 August 1847. No. 9. My Lord, (Received 2 September 1847.) 1 HAVE the honour to inform your Lordship, that Her Majesty's steamer " Growler" Governor Light to Earl Grey. arrived here from the coast of Africa on the loth instant. The "Growler" received on board at Sierra Leone 476 souls, liberated Africans, lately captured, and by these has been enabled to bring a supply of hands, as her visit to Cape Palmas would have been without result. The emaciated state of the negroes has, I am sorry to say, produced great mortality during the voyage, and many sick have been sent to the colonial hospital. O.32. 3 I 4 The

432 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration.

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The reports of the acting agent-general and health officer are annexed. Some remarks by the health officer may be worthy of attention. I have the honour to annex copy of a memorandum by Commander Potbury, showing the route and periods of arrival and departure between Plymouth and Demerara. This may be useful for better calculation of the number of voyages likely to be made by the " Growler " during the year. The "Growler" will be delayed some days here, to enable me to collect Kroomen and others entitled to back passage, for which immediate steps were taken by advertisement and notice to the sitting magistrates. I received from Governor Macdonald a letter, dated Sierra Leone, 21 July, of which, presuming it will be sent in copy by him to your Lordship, I do not send copy. The chief matter of this letter is the necessity for giving every facility of return to Africans from Sierra Leone and the Kroo coast, who may desire to leave this colony by the " Growler." For this I had given orders previous to the perusal of Governor Macdonald's letter, both as of good faith and good policy in the interests of emigration to this colony. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Light.

— No. 10.— (No. 238.) COPY

No. 10. Earl Grey to Governor Light.

8 October

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

Sir,

Downing-street, 16 October 1847. reference to your despatch, dated 13th August last (No. 158), I transmit to you for your information an extract from the report made to me by the Land and Emigration Commissioners, upon your announcement of the state in which the negroes arrived at British Guiana by Her Majesty's sloop " Growler " from Sierra Leone. I have, See. (signed) Grey. WITH

Enclosure in No. 10. Encl. in No. 10.

Sir, Colonial Land and Emigration Office, 8 October 1847. WE regret to see the mortality on board the " Growler," but there seems no reason to doubt that it was owing to the emaciated state in which recently-liberated Africans are unavoidably liable to be found. We do not see that it could have been avoided. With regard to the remarks of the health officer, we have to submit the following observations: In addition to that which he mentions, we shall send out a supply of fresh lymph for vaccination, to meet the " Growler" by the next West India mail. The emigration agent at Sierra Leone has been desired to do his best on all occasions to furnish interpreters; but of course this must very frequently be impracticable. The " Growler" is a man-of-war, and it would not be consistent with the footing on which she is employed to attempt to give the surgeon an authority independent of the commander. Distinct reports, however, on all points affecting the people's health are to be received from the surgeon, through the commander, at the end of every voyage. We have, &c. (signed) T. Fred. Elliot. C. Alexander Wood.

James Stephen, Esq. See. Sec. Sec.

— No. 11.— (No. 164.) COPY

No. 11. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey.

Government House, Demerara, 16 August 1847. My Lord, (Received 22 September 1847.) I HAVE the honour to transmit to your Lordship an extract minute of the 9th instant, of the Court of Policy. It contains three resolutions, the first that the Loan Commissioners should be instructed to raise from time to time such sums of money as may be necessary to meet the drafts of the receiver-general for immigration purposes, in such manner as may be deemed best for the interests of the colony. The

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The second, that application should be made to your Lordship to authorize the Loan Appendix, No* ' Commissioners under the Loan Ordinance to raise the sum of 250,0001, sterling, including Emigration* what may have already been raised on account of the colony. The third, that a copy of the foregoing resolutions should be sent to your Lordship, and BRITISH GUIANA* to the Commissioners for the British Guiana Loan. It may be proper to observe, that the Loan Commissioners have been doubtful of their No. 11. powers to raise money except in terms of the Ordinance No. 2, 1845. Governor high' to The Ordinance No. 9, 1847, removes these doubts; but the market appeared so un- Earl Grey. favourable, that, from what I learn, there has been no money raised on loan, and the See Parl. Paper, colonial drafts have been honoured by the Loan Commissioners and their friends. The No. 322, of 1846, colony will pay high, but it must be raised, whatever the market price maybe. The present difficulty of the Commissioners would certainly have been avoided had the page 147. Loan Ordinance been carried into effect as soon as it was confirmed. The Colonial treasury is entirely exhausted of funds for immigration purposes. All the money required by your Lordship's instructions to be paid into the commissariat chest has been drawn here out of the colonial treasury. I respectfully submit that the request in the second resolution should be favourably considered; the drains by African and probably Madeira emigration must be provided out of the money raised by the loan ; and therefore I do not consider 250,000 I. beyond what may be necessary to pay off advances by the Loan Commissioners, in 1847, and the possible wants of 1848 particularly as the state of the money market augurs that the Commissioners will have to issue their bonds at a considerable discount. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Light.

Enclosure in No. 11. EXTRACT from the MINUTES of the Proceedings of the Honourable the Court of Policy Encl.in No. 11. of the Colony of British Guiana, at its adjourned Assembly, held at the Guiana Public Buildings, Georgetown, Demerara. Monday, 9 August 1847. [After Prayers.] The Honourable Mr. Rose, in pursuance of notice, moved the following resolutions, which, being seconded by the Honourable Mr. White, were unanimously agreed to; viz. Resolved—1st. That his Excellency the Governor be requested to authorize the Commissioners for the " British Guiana Loan," to raise from time to time, on account of the colony, such sums of money as may be necessary to meet the drafts of the Receiver-general for immigration purposes, in such manner as they may deem best for the interest of the colony. 2d. That his Excellency the Governor be requested to apply to the Right Honourable Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies to authorize the Commissioners for the " British Guiana Loan," to raise under the Loan Ordinance the sum of 250,000 I. sterling, including what may have already been raised on account of the colony. 3d. That his Excellency be requested to transmit a copy of the foregoing resolutions to the Right Honourable Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies, and to the Commissioners for the " British Guiana Loan." (True extract.) (signed)

W. B. Wolseley, Acting Secretary.

— No. 12. — (No. 263.) COPY of a

DESPATCH

from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

No. 12. Earl Grey to

Governor Light* Downing-street, 14 December 1847. to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch of the 16th August last, No. 164, enclosing three resolutions of the Court of Policy relative to the immigration loan. I now enclose, for your own information and for that of the Court of Policy, a copy of a letter which I have received from the Immigration Loan Commissioners, informing me of the terms upon which they have been enabled to raise a sum of 90,000 and I also enclose 12 Octobre 1847 a copy of a letter which I addressed to those gentlemen, directing them to raise a further 14 December1847 sum of 90,000 I. before the 1st July next. I have, &c. Grey. (signed)

Sir,

I HAVE

0.32.

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434

Enclosure 1, in No. 12.

Appendix, No. 1.

My Lord, 29, Finsbury Circus, 30 October 1847. learning from Mr. Under Secretary Hawes' letter of the 24th July, that your Lordship proposed to submit the amended Ordinances therein referred to for Her Majesty's confirmation, we at once took the necessary steps, in our capacity of Commissioners of Encl. l, in No. 12. the British Guiana Loan, for raising the first portion of the amount thereby authorized to be borrowed. We have now the honour to report, that, in conformity with tenders sent in and accepted, the sum of 90,000 l. was duly lodged at our bankers, in exchange for bonds securing 100,000 /. to the holders at the expiration of five years, and bearing in the meantime interest at the rate of five per cent, per annum, payable half-yearly. However melancholy a proof of colonial discredit these terms exhibited at the time, we think your Lordship will perceive abundant reason for congratulation, for, in consequence of the further lamentable depreciation of West India securities, it would now have been utterly impracticable to raise any part of the amount. From the funds thus realized, we have been enabled to liquidate the drafts passed on us from the colony for the hire of coolie transports last season, and any balance which may remain after discharging the expenses in India, will be held applicable to the immigration of the ensuing year. Annexed are particulars of the bonds issued, which, together with a copy of the form of bond employed, we forwarded to the loan committee in Demerara, in a despatch dated the 31st August last. Emigration.

BRITISH GUIANA.

75 bonds of date 21 August 1847: No. 1 to 25, for 1,000 I. each. No. 26 to 75, for 500 I. each. 10 bonds of date 23 August 1847 : No. 76 to 85, for 5,0001, each. We have, &c. (signed) James Cavan, and three Others. The Right Honourable the Earl Grey, Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies.

Enclosure 2, in No. 12. To the British Guiana Immigration Loan Commissioners. Encl. 2, in No. 12

Gentlemen, Downing-street, 14 December 1847. I HAVE to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 30th October last, informing me of the terms upon which you had been enabled to raise the sum of 90,0001, for immigration purposes. As it appears from accounts which have been received from the Governor of British Guiana that further amounts will be required for this service before the 21st August next, Her Majesty has commanded me to authorize you to raise such further sums before the 21st August next, as shall not in the whole exceed, inclusive of the amount already raised, the sum of 260,000 I. ; and it will be my duty to convey to you from time to time such directions as may be necessary for your guidance as to the particular periods at which specific portions of the amount may be required. I am, &c. Grey. (signed)

Enclosure 3, in No. 12. To the British Guiana Loan Commissioners. Encl. 3, in No. 12.

Gentlemen, Downing-street, 14 December 1847. pursuance of the authority conveyed to you in my letter of this day's date, I have now to direct you to take immediate steps for procuring a sum of 20,000 I., as empowered by the provisions of the British Guiana Ordinances, No. 2, of 1845, and No. 8, of 1847. Further sums amounting to 70,000 l. will be required before the 1st July next, which you will be at liberty to raise, either at the same time as the above-mentioned 20,000 l., or at such subsequent opportunities as may appear to you most suitable for the purpose. IN

I am, &c. Grey. (signed)

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839 Appendix, No. 1.

— No. 13.— (No.

Emigration.

174.) COPY

of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey.

BRITISH GUIANA.

Government House, Demerara, 30 August 1847. No. 13. My Lord, (Received 8 October 1847 ) Governor Light to HAVING a few observations to make on the subject of emigration to this colony from the Grey. Earl coast of Africa, I have considered it expedient to trouble your Lordship with a copy of Governor Macdonald's letter to me, brought by the " Growler," as stated in my despatch, (A.) •No. 158, date 13th instant, with a copy also of my reply to him. Governor Macdonald's letter lays great stress on the success of emigration from Sierra (B.) Leone and the Kroo coast, from a liberal permission of return being conceded to the natives of Africa who have come to this country. This was so perfectly my view of the subject, that had there not been a right fixed by the Secretary of State of free passage, and confirmed by ordinance, I should in every way have encouraged the return of as many Africans as could be induced to leave this colony, to prove to their countrymen the advantages it offers for industry. Governor Macdonald alludes to certain Africans who were brought here by the " Margaret," to whom Mr. Bagot, when agent for the charterers, gave a promise of return. The list was sent me, and a letter, from some of the relatives, addressed to the governor, (A.) praying that the persons named in the list might be allowed to return. Every proper measure was adopted for this purpose; some two or three were willing to return, others (2.) declined, and some were not to be found, as per letter No. 3. The " Growler " was here from the 10th to the 21st instant. The letter of the acting agent-general states, that 121 persons embarked, of whom a nominal list is given. Of the (c.) men embarked, 33 were Kroomen, 29 of whom deposited in the hands of the commander of the " Growler " 571 l. 15 s. 10 d.; the particulars respecting the remainder are flattering; and if appearances influence, the improved condition of the return passengers will, I have no doubt, help the cause of emigration from Africa. A question now presents itself to me. The heads of tribes in the Kroo country traffic on the profits of the " boys," as they are called, who navigate ships, as they are desirous of doing with the profits of those who emigrate. Their chiefs require their return, to obtain a per centage of the gains. Now, though a good number of Kroomen did return by the " Growler," yet they were in small proportion to the number wbo have come to the colony. Several to whom I offered passage personally declined; they had not made money enough. The secret of this, as I understand, is, that, they are supposed to have made money, and on the same supposition, they would have to give more of their earnings than they liked: they have found the blessings of independence here, and will be unwilling to exchange them for the dependence on a Kroo chief. Yet if the emigrants from Africa decline leaving this country, it may be ascribed to the preventive measures of the local government. Mr. Hook, the agent of Sierra Leone, came here in the " Growler." Some difficulties seem to have arisen in regard to his remaining on the Kroo coast, his first destination. I have every reason to be satisfied with his views and zeal in forwarding the scheme of emigration from Africa; he is modest in his remarks, and reasonable in his hopes. It is clear from what I could learn from him, that the inhabitants of Sierra Leone are inimical to emigration to the West Indies; he gave me instances of the dislike already shown by the navy to the service on which the " Growler " is employed, and predicted that it would be a failure, and particularly if the back passage to Africa'from the West Indies is to be made without steam, the " Growler " being peculiarly ill adapted for sailing. Though I have mentioned two months in my letter to Governor Macdonald as a long passage, yet better judges than myself have predicted three months as the time to be passed in sailing back. It will be difficult to bring 1,800 emigrants from Africa in the time calculated by printed docucuments, " Emigration from Africa." Mr. Hook considers that the whole of the Kroo coast, an extent of 150 miles, should be included in the scheme of emigration ; it appears that Governor Macdonald is disposed to limit it to a distance of 25 miles; but on this I do not presume to give an opinion I understand from Commander Potbury, that his next destination is Trinidad, but that he will call here for return passengers; the uncertainty of the time of his arrival here, ranging between four or five months hence, will probably prevent my giving timely notice for their collection. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Light.

Enclosures in No. 13.

Ends, in No. 13.

(A.) Sir, Government House, Sierra Leone, 21 July 1847. I AVAIL myself of the departure of Her Majesty's ship "Growler" to-morrow, for the colony under your Excellency's government, to submit for your consideration certain points, the observance of which appears to me to be indispensable for securing a supply of emigrants, either from this colony or from the Kroo coast to the West Indies. 0.32.

3 K 2

THE

436 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

Ends, in No. 13. Males Females

252 224

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

The " Growler," perfect in her arrangements, and replete with everything which can conduce to the comfort and accommodation of the emigrants, was fortunate enough to find, on her arrival here, a great number of captured Africans in the liberated African department, from amongst whom she has succeeded in obtaining a full complement of emigrants, as noted in the margin hereof; and I do not think I have ever seen, on the whole, a finer or more promising set of people; and as they are mostly young, and have not mixed with the resident population of this colony, they will the more readily be trained to the description of labour which they may be required to perform at Demerara. In consequence of the " Growler " filling up here, this (her first) trip in the emigration

Total - 476* service, she will not be enabled to take any emigrants from the Kroo coast; she, howEqual to - 314 ever, calls off there, on her way over, to show herself to the Kroomen, to intimate the Statute adults. probable date of her return, and to afford an opportunity to the West India emigration * Of the foregoing, 91 have been vaccinated.

agent to make arrangements for securing a supply of Kroo emigrants on her next visit to that coast, as unless she should be again so fortunate as to find a further supply of new people in the liberated African department, on her return to this colony she will have to depend solely on the Kroo coast for her future supply of emigrants, the resident native population of the colony having, with but solitary exceptions, strenuously set their faces against emigration. But whether she takes emigrants from here or from the Kroo country, or from both places, it is absolutely necessary, in order to ensure fresh emigrants returning with her to the West Indies, that she should bring back from thence to this colony, and to the Kroo coast, such of the emigrants belonging to either place as delegates, whose period of service has expired; for unless this plan is adopted and faithfully carried out, few indeed will be induced to emigrate to the West Indies. One of the causes, if not the principal one, of the failure of the measure of emigration from this colony, was the very partial return of delegates, and the difficulty experienced by many of the emigrants (who, disappointed on their arrival in the West Indies, were anxious to return to Sierra Leone), in obtaining a passage back to the colony. I, of course, do not advocate the principle, that these people may demand a passage back to Sierra Leone, as a matter of right, whenever they may think proper to do so. But it may be a question deserving of deep consideration, whether it is not wiser to place the means of returning to the Kroo coast and Sierra Leone at the disposal of those who are disappointed, rather than, by keeping them in the West Indies, render them disaffected and inimical to the measure of emigration ; and this point is entitled to the serious attention of those interested in the scheme of emigration, when they are informed that, on the report of delegates, on the mere word or whisper of their own country people, and not on the advice or opinion of Europeans, are Africans induced to emigrate or not. In proof of the very great weight attached by the natives of this part to the return of their country people from the West Indies, I beg to enclose for your information copies, first, of an agreement given by Mr. Bagot for the return of certain Kroomen therein named, who accompanied him in the " Margaret" to Berbice, dated 14th January 1846, and, secondly, an application to me by the friends and relatives of those Kroomen, to obtain their return from Berbice; and I shall feel greatly obliged to your Excellency if you could secure the return of these people in the " Growler." Nothing will sooner tend to destroy irredeemably emigration from this colony and the Kroo coast than even an apparent breach of faith with the emigrants; and as they are by nature a most suspicious race of people, if once the slightest distrust is engendered in their minds, whether well or ill founded, they never forget it, and are not easily, if ever, induced to place confidence again in the same source. Your excellency will therefore perceive how essentially necessary it is for the existence of emigration, that good faith in every point should be kept with these people, that they should be treated with liberality by their employers (it will be found wise economy in the long run to do so), their entire confidence gained, and the means of their return to the colony freely secured to them. When they perceive that there is a desire to meet their wishes in this respect, depend upon it they will become far more reconciled than they are or ever have been to the measure of emigration. You will, I hope, pardon the length to which I have intruded myself on your attention; but, being most anxious that the existing drawbacks to the success of emigration should be known amongst those most interested in that measure, I have deemed it my duty to bring under your Excellency's special notice the most serious one, in the full confidence that you will adopt every means in your power for its removal. I have, &c. His Excellency Governor Light, (signed) Jno. Macdonald, Governor. Demerara. (True copy.) (signed)

A. F. Baird, Acting Assist. Gov. Sec.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

437

(1.) consequence of several of the inhabitants (Kroomen) of Setra Kroo having come on board of this ship to emigrate to Berbice, in the colony of British Guiana, in the West Indies, I give this memorandum of the fact, with the names of these emigrants, to Jack Purser, head-man of this town. Jack Purser has also entrusted me with his young son, Jack Purser, thus evincing his desire for his countrymen to emigrate to that part of the West Indies, and in every way that he could; and while giving this strong proof of his confidence, expressing a desire that his son should return or be sent back to give him and his countrymen information of that country, as a means of establishing a belief of what is told them, and as an encouragement for a more extensive emigration there. Jack Purser is the finest man of his nation I have met with, of superior intelligence and sense, and of great integrity and honesty, and this every one who dealt with him will find. Ship, " Margaret," Setra Kroo, this 14th of January 1846. Thomas Bagot, (L. s.) (signed) Agent of the Charterers of" Margaret." 1. Peter John, King John's son. 7. Peter Harrison. 2. John Purser. 8. William Walker. 3. Yellow Will, King's brother. 9. Jonup Jack Purser, Jack's son. 4. Centipede. 10. Tom Freeman. 5. Tom Swagger. 11. Governor Tom. 6. Peter Jumbo. 12. Johnny Guy, from Cape Palmas. (True copy.) A. F. Baird, (signed) Ag. Assist. Gov. Sec. IN

(2.)

To His Excellency Governor Macdonald. Sir, beg you, if you can do anything, for to bring back our children that was taken to Berbice, in the West Indies, by the ship " Margaret," about 14 months ago. They faithfully agreed they should bring back our children to us last rainy season, and we are afraid they have done bad. We have no one to look to but your Excellency ; and if you can do us the favour, we will ever pray for you. I have enclosed the agent's letter, and sent it to Sierra Leone by the barque " Venus," Captain Murray. We have, &c, (signed) Jack Purser, Krooman. Setra Kroo, 12 March 1847. (True copy.) (signed) A. F. Baird, Ag. Assist. Gov. Sec. WE

(B.) BRITISH GUIANA.

Sir, Government House, Demerara, 17 August 1847. I HAD the honour of receiving your Excellency's letter of the 21st July, by Her Majesty's steamer " Growler," on the 10th instant. The " Growler," not having been expected so soon, no steps had been taken for the return passage of such natives of Africa as were entitled to demand it, or who wished to return without having a claim to back passage ; which in good faith and policy was most expedient to grant; and is, I am happy to acknowledge, so ably advocated by your Excellency. Before I received your despatch, I had already given orders, on the " Growler's " arrival, for notice to be issued by advertisement, and to the stipendiary magistrates, of the "Growler's" arrival, and of its being permitted to take back to Sierra Leone Africans desirous of embarking in the " Growler." I suspect a very small number will be found availing themselves of the opportunity. It has been fortunate for the colony that the slave-yard at Sierra Leone was full; for till more Kroomen have returned from this, the hesitation in that part of Africa will be adverse to immigration. Those with whom I have conversed do not. much like going to Kroo country, with a certainty of having to share their earnings with their chiefs. I understand the " Growler" does not " steam" to Sierra Leone. I trust this will be altered; for with her build and tackle it will be a two months' voyage. I have, &c. His Excellency the Governor (signed) Henry Light, of Sierra Leone. Governor B. Guiana. (True copy.) (signed) A. F. Baird, Ag. Assist. Gov. Sec. 0.32.

3 K 3

841 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

Encls. in No. 13.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

438 Appendix, No. x.

(3.)

Emigration.

Sir,

BRITISH GUIANA.

Ends, in No. 13.

Georgetown, 19 August 1847. regard to the people named in his Excellency Governor Macdonald's despatch, I have the honour to report that I have made every inquiry for them, and the following is the result thereof: Tom Freeman has appeared, and goes by the "Growler:" John Purser, Peter John, Yellow Will and Tom Swagger, are working on estates in Berbice, and decline leaving this country until the next trip. This I have learnt from their head-man Jumbo Tappy, who left Sierra Leone with them, and is now about to return in the " Growler; " the others I cannot find, but shall continue to make inquiry for them so as to offer them a return passage on the next occasion. WITH

I have, See. (signed) Arthur W. Horsford, Ag. Imm. Agt. Gen.

The Honourable W. B. Wolseley, Government Secretary, &c. &c. Sec. (True copy.)

(signed)

A. F. Band, Ag. Assist. Gov. Sec.

(C.)

Sir,

Georgetown, 24 August 1847. I HAVE the honour to report, for the information of his Excellency the Governor, the departure of Her Majesty's Ship " Growler," from this port on the 21 st instant, with 121 return passengers to Sierra Leone, and the coast. They consist of 75 men, 33 of whom are Kroomen, 25 women and 22 children. I enclose a nominal list of them, signed by Commander Potbury and myself. The only persons amongst them who were not originally immigrants were Robert Acquedon, and his wife Katherine, a discharged serjeant of the 3d West India Regiment, and Kameah Leigh, a Creole of this country, married to William Leigh. By far the great majority of these people arrived by the "Superior" in May 1841, September 1841, and September 1842. Some few who came since as delegates, and who have behaved themselves well, as also some of those sent from Berbice, are the only exceptions. The whole of these people expressed themselves well pleased with this country, and acknowledged that comfort and good wages are easily obtained here by those who chose to be industrious and well conducted. The object which they profess to have in returning to Sierra Leone is to see their friends, and to advise as many as possible to accompany them back to British Guiana, and I am inclined to think them honest and sincere in their professions; for the advantages derivable from their immigration to this country are apparent in themselves. They came totally ignorant and helpless; they return improved in their condition in every respect, their ideas enlarged, more civilized in their habits and customs, their miserable personal appearance exchanged for that of able-bodied and useful people; their dress in most cases superior to that of the English peasantry ; and I may venture to say that all carry with them some substantial portion of the fruits of their labour. To support the latter assertion, it is only necessary that I should state that Commander Potbury, wishing to prevent anything approaching to gambling, or any temptation to robbery, offered to take care of any money they may have until the expiration of the voyage. Twenty-nine of them deposited with him, in various sums, dollars to the amount of 571 l. 15 s. 4 d., others on board preferred keeping their own money, and very many of them have taken articles of merchandize with them, viz. hats, cotton prints, trowserings, Sec., to some considerable extent. The smallest sum deposited with Commander Potbury by either of them is 1 l. 9 s. 2 d., the highest 58l. 6 s. 8 d. I have, &c. (signed) The Honourable W. B. Wolseley, Government Secretary.

Arthur W. Horsford, Acting Immigration Agent-general.

(True copy.) A. F. Baird, (signed) Acting Assistant Government Secretary.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

439

843 Appendix, No. 1.

LIST of EMIGRANTS returned to Sierra Leone by Her Majesty's Ship " Growler," 20 August 1847. Emigration. Jack Labey. Joseph Williams. Sammy M'Auley. BRITISH GUIANA. John M'Auley. Sam Lewis. James Davis. Willm. King. Ben Cuffy. Sam Lucis. Ends, in No. 13. Joseph May. Jack Baba. Jim Manney. Thomas George. John Barber. Tom Walker. Thomas Raffle. Black Will. John Williams. Sam Thomas. Yellow Will. Yellow Will. Katherine Acquedon. John Thomas. Jack Savey. Jesse Coker. Jumbo Zappy. Sam Coker. Hannah Mitchker. Tom Grando. Jack Baba. Lucy Peter and l child. John Lewis. Peter Warman. Mary Williams. John Robert. Black Will. Fanny Taylor. Prince William. Robert Acquedon. Sarah M'Auley and 1 child. John Davis. Salt Water. Betsey Davis and 2 children. Tom Freeman. Isaac Richards. Will Leigh and child. Nancy Carew and 4 children. Scipio Morris. Mary Thomas. Jack Deuce. William Bliger. Jenny Williams and 2 chilJack Leophold. John Petel. Thomas William. dren. John Fishman. Ben Coffin. Tom Williams. Elizabeth Grant and 1 child. Benny Robert. Eliza M'Auley, and 1 child. Willm. Robert. Tom Freeman. Lucy Harding. Jim Harding. Black Will. John Thomas. Betsey M'Auley. Jim George. Willm. Stobo. Harriet Stobo and 1 child. Ben Cuffy. Henry Cuming. Nancy Johnston and 1 child. James Coker. George M'Auley. Rebecca Johnston and 2 chilThomas Coker. Joseph Johnstone. dren. John Thomas. Joseph Grant. Betsey Williams. Jim Hook. Kameah Leigh and 1 child. James Taylor. Charles Day. John Williams. Eliza Williams and 2 children. Tom Toby. Joseph Johnstone. Abdallah. Fanny Chambers. Thomas Raffle. Jack Purser. Hannah Cuming. James Wilson. Mary Jarrett and 2 children. Tom Peter. William Dove. Men Kroomen Women Children

42 -

--33

--24

TOTAL

Number of passengers

- 121

-121

(signed)

J. M. Potbury, Commander, Her Majesty's Ship " Growler."

(signed)

Arthur W. Horsford, Acting Immigration Agent-general.

20 August.

(True copy.) (signed)

A. F. Baird, Ag. Assist. Gov. Sec.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 14.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 177.) Copy of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey. No. 14.

Government House, Demerara, 3 September 1847. Governor Light to My Lord, (Received 8 October 1847.) Earl Grey. I HAVE the honour to transmit to your Lordship the return for the half-year ending 30th June last, showing the centesimal proportion of deaths amongst the troops and emigrants in British Guiana. As this return refers only to labourers on estates, the amount of deaths of emigrants inhabiting the two capitals, the villages and hamlets, which in regard to Portuguese is in much larger proportion than those residing on estates, must be obtained from the hospital statistics of Georgetown and New Amsterdam, which have not yet been sent in. I have, &c. (signed) Henry Light. O.32.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

440

Appendix, No. 1.

Enclosure in No. 14.

Emigration.

RETURN showing the Centesimal Proportion of Deaths to the Strength of the Troops in British Guiana, as also the Centesimal Proportion of Deaths amongst the Portuuese, African and Coolie Immigrants in British Guiana, appearing on the Stipendiary Magistrates' Monthly Reports, exclusive of those residing in Towns and Villages, and not permanently located on Plantations, from 1 January to 30 June 1847.

BRITISH GUIANA.

Encl. in No. 14.

Average Number.

—

Number of Deaths.

Centesimal Proportion.

REMARKS.

White troops

227

2.20 f

Black troops

224

1.34 |

Portuguese

4,278

170

3.97

Africans

4,149

0.67

Coolies

4,765

122

2.56

The officers of all corps are included in the number of white troops.

(signed) A. F. Baird, Acting Assistant Government Secretary.

August 1847.

— No. 15.— No. 15. Earl Grey to Governor Light.

24 Dec.

(No. 281.) COPY

of a

DESPATCH

from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

Sir, Downing-street, 31 January 1848. BY my despatch No. 263, of the 14th December last, you will have learned that, in conformity with the opinion expressed by yourself and the Court of Policy, I authorized the Loan Commissioners to raise such further sums before the 21st August next, as should not exceed, inclusive of the amount already raised, the sum of 250,000l., and also that I called upon them to raise 20,000 /. forthwith, and 70,000 I. more by the 1st July next. I now enclose a copy of their reply, dated the 24th ultimo, reporting that an advertisement for a loan having been issued in behalf of Trinidad, not a single tender had been received in answer, and that the Loan Commissioners felt it useless and inexpedient to make any attempt to raise money for Guiana under existing circumstances. I fear that the correctness of this opinion cannot be questioned. The present result will, I am aware, threaten your administration wich considerable financial difficulty, and you may rely upon it that the subject will receive the serious consideration of the Government. I have, See. (signed) Grey.

Enclosure in No. 15. The British Guiana Immigration Loan Commissioners to Earl Grey.

Encl. in No. 15.

My Lord, 29, Finsbury Circus, 24 December 1847. have the honour to acknowedge the receipt of your Lordship's two letters of the 14th instant, authorizing us to raise such further sums before the 21st August next as shall not in the whole exceed, inclusive of the amount already raised, the sum of 250,000 l. and directing us to take immediate steps for procuring a sum of 20,000 l., and to raise at the same time or at such time, as we might consider expedient, the further sum of 70,000 l., which will be required before the 1st July next. We have now the honour to inform your Lordship that we postponed taking any steps for raising these sums until the result of an advertisement for a loan at six per cent, interest which had been issued by the Loan Commissioners for Trinidad should be ascertained, and as not a single tender has been made upon that advertisement, we consider it useless and inexpedient to make any attempt to rasie money at present under the provisions of the British Guiana Loan Ordinance. WE

We have, &c. A. Colvile. (signed) James Cavan. Charles Cave.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

845

441

— No. 18.—

Appendix, No. 1.

(No. 283.) COPY

of a

DESPATCH

Emigration.

from Earl Grey to Governor Light.

BRITISH GUIANA-

Sir,

Downing-street., 1 February 1848. I TRANSMIT to you for your information the enclosed copies of a despatch to the No. 15. Governor of Jamaica, and of a letter from this department to the Treasury, respecting the Earl Grey to encouragement of emigration from the coast of Africa to the West Indies. The former will Governor Lightshow you the general intentions which Her Majesty's Government formed on this subject, Despatch to and the latter will explain the details by which it was proposed that they should be carried Jamaica, No. 99, into effect. You will perceive that we resolved that this country should bear the risk of 30 Oct. 1847. any loss which might be incurred in trying the experiment, supposing no emigrants to be Colonial office to procurable for the emigrant vessels ; provided, on the other hand, that the colonies should Treasury, pay for the passage of such emigrants as might, in fact, be obtained and landed on their 11 Dec. 1847. shores. But the difficulties which have since prevented the raising of a loan may require See Parl. Paper, some modification in this last particular. Whilst these measures were resolved upon, with the view of promoting emigration from Africa in sailing ships, the difficulties which have been experienced in the " Growler," and the ascertained unsuitableness of a man-of-war for such duties, have led Her Majesty's Government to determine on discontinuing the employment of that steamer for the present purpose. You will distinctly understand, however, that this is from no indifference to the object in view, but, on the contrary, that, more success is expected from sending a constant succession of sailing ships to the coast, whilst the fair wind from thence to the West Indies causes the passage to be almost as short as in a steamer.

No 62, of 1848, pp. 89 & 98.

In pursuance of the foregoing arrangements, two vessels were chartered by the Emigration Commissioners, to proceed to the coast of Africa for the island of Jamaica, and subsequently two others have been engaged to go there for the colony under your government, subject to the terms which you will find explained in the enclosed Report from the Commissioners of Emigration. Besides these two vessels, viz., " The Arabian " and " Una," the Commissioners have likewise consented that the " Helena" may proceed to the coast for a like purpose, at her owner's risk in case she should get no passengers, but with a claim to payment of the regular rate of passage-money, viz., 35 dollars per adult, in respect of all emigrants whom she may land in the colony. I had previously given my license to the "Superior" to proceed to the coast upon similar terms; and she, like the " Helena," is restricted from going to the Kroo Coast, as the owner preferred confining himself to Sierra Leone, in order to avoid the necessity of carrying the naval officer, whose presence would be requisite if the vessel were intended to proceed to parts of Africa beyond the limits of British jurisdiction. Two ships are now about to proceed to Trinidad, and two will follow to Jamaica; but next will come again the turn of Guiana; and whilst the necessity will not be overlooked of furnishing you with some distinct instructions on the mode of payment, I can with confidence assure you that it is very unlikely that so desirable a kind of emigration will be stopped. I have, &c. Grey. (signed)

— No. 17.— (NO. 7.) Copy of a DESPATCH from Governor Light to Earl Grey. My Lord,

Government-house, Demerara, 10 January 1848. (Received 25 February 1848.)

I HAVE the honour of transmitting the Custom-house return of produce shipped from British Guiana, in the year 1847, with comparative return with 1846; the former shows a large increase, which but for the low prices at which produce has been sold for the greater part of the last year, would have been a remunerating crop to a large proportion of the proprietors. The introduction of so many emigrants has materially tended to the increase; that increase will probably be much larger in the current year, if the difficulties in the money market cease, and planters are enabled to pay their labourers, which at present few of them have the means of doing, even at reduced wages, which the emigrants seem more willing to receive than the Creoles; some of these see the necessity of the reduction knowing that 0.32. 3 L they

No. 17. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

442 Appendix, No. I. Emigration. BRITISH GUIANA.

No. 17. Governor Light to Earl Grey.

they may obtain the old rate of wages by performing a larger tariff of labour than they have hitherto yielded to. The advantages of thorough drainage seem to be generally acknowledged, and were funds to be obtained, it would generally be established. The agricultural chemist, Dr. Schier, has produced better sugar from six months' canes cut on the experimental drainage field, than any made from canes of lull growth in the colony. The experimental field has laboured under some disadvantages of bad and weak plants, yet it is expected to produce between two and three hogsheads an acre, while the average throughout the colony does not exceed one or one and a quarter hogshead. In March next, its value will be known, as its crop will be cut and manufactured in that month. I have, Sic. (signed) Henry Light.

Enclosure in No. 17.

Encl. in No. 17.

Port of George Town, Demerara. Exported from this Colony in the Year ended the 5th January 1848.

AMOUNT of the Quantity of

PRODUCE

Sugar.

Rum.

Hogsheads. Puncheons. Exported from Demerara in the Year 1847 Exported 1847

from

Berbice

the

Decrease -

Custom House, Demerara, 7 January 1848.

Coffee-

Casks.

Lbs.

36,676

15,763

9,669

130,800

10,532

2,720

3,947

58,590

47,208

18,483

13,616

189,390

21,286

7,303

12,056

59,175

Year

Exported from Demerara in the Year 1846 Exported from Berbice in the Year 1846

Increase

Molasses.

4,97 5

1,081

2,549

43,275

26,201

8,384

14,605

102,450

21,087

10,099

(signed)

86,940

989

Chas. Robinson, Collector.

(True copy.) William Walker, Government Secretary-

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

ST.

847

443

VINCENT.

— No. 1.— Appendix, No. 1. (No. 12.) Emigration. EXTRACT of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Reid, dated Downing-street, 23 March 1847. ST. VINCENT. I NOTICE with regret that much disease and mortality is stated in the report of Mr. Struth to have occurred among the immigrants who have arrived in this island from Madeira. No. 1. I have to instruct you to direct the Lieutenant-governor to inquire into the cause of this Earl Grey to mortality, and to state whether any regulations can be devised to guard against it. If, as it Governor Reid. has been alleged, this mortality arises, in a great degree, from these emigrants denying themselves the food and clothing necessary for health, to lay by a fund out of their wages, with a view to their return to their native country, perhaps it may be in your power to suggest a plan, (which, however will require much careful consideration), by which their wages may be paid, partly in money and partly in food and clothing. Upon this I desire to express no decided opinion, but rather to call your serious attention to the subject, in order to guard against similar calamities in future. — No. 2. — (No. 17.) of

from Earl Grey to Governor Reid. Sir, Downing-street, 1 May 1847. WITH reference to my despatch of the 23d ultimo, St. Vincent, No. 12, remarking on the mortality which occurred amongst the immigrants who had arrived in that island from Madeira, I have now to acquaint you that accounts have lately reached me from the governors of British Guiana* and Trinidad + of the great mortality amongst the Madeira immigrants in those colonies also. I have considered it necessary that every precaution should he taken to guard against its recurrence. I have, therefore, to desire you to instruct the Lieutenant-governor of St. Vincent at once to take such measures as the law will authorise for stopping the bounty on the importation of immigrants from Madeira during the unhealthy months, as pointed out by the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners in their report, of which I herewith enclose a copy. A notification to this effect should, probably, be made in the island of Madeira, for the information of merchants and commanders of vessels, and you will instruct the Lieutenantgovernor to pay the bounties on immigrants who may have left Madeira before the notice could take effect. I have also to request that you will take an early opportunity of furnishing me with such a report as will enable me to determine further whether the payment of bounties on immigrants from Madeira can be allowed to continue at all. I have, &c. (signed) Grey. COPY

DESPATCH

No. 2. Earl Grey to Governor Reid.

* No. 31, 16 Feb. 1847, in Pail Papers, 325, 1847, p. 82. + No. 122, 29 Dec. 1846, in Pari. Papers, 325, 1847, p. 108.

23 April. See Parl Papers, No.

325 of 1847,

p. 83.

— No. 3.— No. 3. (No. 22.) Governor Reid to COPY of a DESPATCH from Governor Lieutenant-Colonel Reid to Earl Grey. Earl Grey. Government House, Barbadoes, My Lord, 24 May 1847. HAVING to-day received an answer from the Lieutenant-governor of St. Vincent relative to the immigrants from Madeira, with reference to your Lordship's despatch, No. 12, dated Barbadoes, No. 54. 23d March, I transmit without delay a copy of what I wrote to Sir John Campbell, and his 27 April 1847. answer, but I retain the documents accompanying this answer that I may examine them. I received your Lordship's despatch, No. 17, dated 1st May, on the same subject yesterSt. Vincent, No. 61. day, and a copy of it will be forwarded to-day for the guidance of the Lieutenant-governor. 26 Mai 1847. I have, &c. (signed) Wm. Reid, Governor. Enclosure 1, in No. 3. (No. 54.)

Government House, Barbadoes, Sir, 27 April 1847. IN compliance with the accompanying copy of a despatch which I have received from Earl Grey, I request your Excellency to supply me with the information called for therein, on the subject of the disease and mortality stated to have occurred among the immigrants in St. Vincent. The impression left on my mind after my late visit to St. Vincent was, that the Portuguese immigrants were, upon the whole, both healthy and doing well. You will no doubt feel sensible thai this subject will require from you a careful report. I have, &c. His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor (signed ) Win. Reid Governor, of St. Vincent. ' ' 0.32.

3 L 2

Encl. 1. in No. 3,

St. Vincent. No. 12, 13 March 1847.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

444 Appendix, No. 1.

Enclosure 2, in No. 3. (No.

GL.)

St. Vincent, Government House, _ 26 May 1847. I HAVE judged that the most satisfactory reply to your Excellency's despatch, No. 54, ST. VINCENT. Encl. 2, in No. 3. Barbadoes, 27th April 1847, inclosing one from the Right Honourable the Secretary of State, regarding the supposed extensive sickness and mortality among the Madeirese will be found in the inclosed documents. They consist of the reports of commissioners whom I appointed to investigate the salubrity of all the estates in the island, with a view to ascer3. taining those which it will not be proper to permit the location of immigrants during their Windward Report. first contract, on or at least to preclude the proprietors of such estates from the reception of Leeward Report. bounty, which, under existing circumstances, may be looked upon as a prohibition. A reference to these reports will, I think, substantiate the fact, that on the whole the immigrants Kingstown District have enjoyed better health than could at first have been anticipated, and that in this respect the experiment of their introduction has been attended with marked success. When it is Report. considered that many of the people who come here were old and infirm on their arrival, and also when the large proportion of children is taken into account, the mortality will appear by no means excessive, but the reverse. It will also be observed, that by much the greater number of deaths took place soon after the landing of the sufferers; this was to be expected from the great and sudden change in all circumstances, of climate, diet and labour, and this fact is calculated to hold out encouraging hopes for the future as regards those now in the island. Additional information on this subject will be found in the tabular returns of the stipendiary magistrates, which in all essential points, agree thoroughly with the reports of the commissioners, and bear me out in my remarks. I have, &c. (signed) John Campbell, Lieutenant-Governor. His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief, Barbadoes. (True Copies.) (signed) llobert Kay, Private Secretary. Emigration.

No. 4,

Governor Reid to Earl Grey. Windward Report leeway AReport Kingstown District Report. Letter from Hon. J. Legall M. C. St Vincent, 29 Nay 1847. Encl. 1, in No. 4

Sir.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 4.â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 25.) COPY of a DESPA TCH from Governor Lieutenant-Colonel Reid to Earl Grey. Government House, Barbadoes, 29 May 1847. My Lord, (Received 8 July 1847.) I NOW transmit the documents which accompanied Sir John Campbell's answer to my inquiries on the subject of the health of the emigrants from Madeira, who have been brought to St. Vincent, which documents I stated in my despatch, No. 22, May 24th, I had retained, for examination. It will be seen that at Cane Grove estate in the Buccament Valley, some time ago, there were a great many deaths. But no more Portuguese are to be allowed to be sent"to that estate on their arriving, and the term for which the first comers engaged has expired. With respect to the other parts of St. Vincent's, there does not appear at present to be cause for supposing that these immigrants from Madeira may not do well by attending to the precautions which your Lordship enjoins and the law requires. I have, &c (signed) Wm. Reid, Governor. Enclosure 1, in No. 4. .Sir, Windward District, St. Vincent, 22 March 1847. WE had the honour to receive your Excellency's communication of the 18th February, appointing us Commissioners for the Windward District, to report upon such localities therein as from unhealthiness or other causes may be ineligible for the settlement of immigrants during the period of their first or original contract. We beg to state that we have endeavoured by personal observation, by consulting the medical attendants, and by all other means in our power, to make ourselves acquainted with the sanitary condition of the estates and localities in this district. I here has not been any mortality, or only to a trifling extent, among the Portuguese immigrants on any estate or place, with the exception of the following, viz.: Spring, Mount Greenan, Bellevue, Colonarie Vale, and Mount William. On the Spring and Peruvian Vale estate a fever of a low form prevailed soon after the arrival of the Portuguese, which proved fatal to many, not only of them, but also of the negroes; but its origin could not be traced to any peculiarity in the natural condition or relations of the estates, the residents on which in general enjoy as good health as their neighbours. On the other estates above mentioned one great cause of the mortality was dysentery, a malady very apt to follow a sudden change of diet and manner of living. Many of the immigrants were labouring under this disease on their arrival. On Mount Greenan four died of it out of the same batch soon after coming on to the estates, though others who had been located on the same estate for some time previous, had enjoyed the best health since their arrival. One of the immigrants on her way to Mount William died on the road, and her two young children soon after, apparently for want of a mother's care and attention. The amount of the mortality was much augmented by the backwardness of the immigrants to

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to make known their complaints until a late period, and their great unwillingness for the most part to use the proper remedies. Many of the children arrived in a weak and sickly condition. The want of cleanliness in their persons and habitations renders them liable to sores arid various diseases. We have much pleasure in reporting to your Excellency that to the best of our belief there is no epidemic or infectious disorder at present prevalent, nor is there any estate or land in this district which we consider ineligible for the location of Portuguese immigrants. I have, &c. (signed) Alex. M'Leod. To his Excellency Sir John Campbell, Bart., Robert Sutherland, Sp. J. Lieut.-Governor, See. &c. &c. William Gumming.

849 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. ST. VINCENT. Encl. 1, in No. 4.

Enclosure 2, in No. 4. St. Vincent, Leeward District, Encl. 2, in No. 4. Sir, 5 April 1847. WE, the Commissioners for this district, appointed by your Excellency pursuant to the provisions of an Act, entitled, "An Act for promoting and encouraging the Immigration of Labourers into the colony of Saint Vincent, and for regulating contracts to be entered into with them," to report "of any estate or lands in this district, which, owing to local causes or influence, or the frequent prevalence of fever or other disease, complaint or sickness, it may not be deemed prudent to select as locations for immigrants during the period of their first or original contract of service," do report to your Excellency : That immediately on receipt of such commission we forthwith caused advertisements to be inserted in all the newspapers published in the island, stating that we should attend at certain places at fixed days and hours to receive such evidence as might be tendered to enable us to make such report, or in case of no evidence being produced, that we should make a report to the best of our belief. That your Excellency will perceive this was all we could do ; the Act containing no power to compel the attendance of witnesses, to administer oaths, and that the affirmation being to prove an estate unhealthy, it was not likely any disinterested parties would attend. We had to depend in a great measure on our local knowledge. That in the schedule annexed is set forth such evidence as we have received. That we conceive an estate ought not to be considered ineligible merely because the labourers on an estate were located in situations we should deem imprudent for immigrants on their first arrival, provided due means had been taken before, or as soon after the arrival of the immigrants as possible, to locate them on places on the same estate which we consider perfectly healthy. That we think it most advisable therefore to divide the estates into three classes. In the first class are those we consider it might not be deemed prudent to select as locations for immigrants during the period of their first or original contract of service. In the second, those we are unwilling to include in the foregoing class, for the reasons we shall state in adverting to each estate, though we consider that circumstances may arrive which might make it imperative on the commissioners to make a further report regarding these estates about the month of September next, being the middle of the rainy season. In the third class, the remaining estates of which we entertain no doubt as to their eligibility as localities. Before alluding to the different estates, we would observe that the five first-mentioned estates are situated in the Buccament Valley, in which more rain falls than in any other part of the island, and a portion of which valley adjoining the sea is nearly a dead level, say for nearly half-a-mile from high-water mark. We now proceed to report on the different estates— In the first Class: Cane Grove Estate.—This estate is situated in Buccament Valley, bordering ON the sea, and is in a damp situation. It appears that out of 58 Madeira immigrants who arrived here in January 1846, 26 are dead. On referring to the evidence it will appear that it was only from one of the immigrants we were enabled to arrive at the number of deaths. This immigrant had with two others a few days previously applied to (he special justice, one of the commissioners, to be removed from the estate on the plea of their continued bad health, and by his desire he attended before the commissioners at the sitting; there were also present several of the Madeira immigrants from this estate, who appeared in a w retched state of health. In the Second Class : Pembroke Estate.—Is situated in Buccament Valley, bordering on the sea. From the evidence given by the medical attendant, and from our local knowledge of the situation on which the immigrants are located, and from their good state of health for the very short time they have been in the island, we consider this an estate ON which immigrants may at present be safely located ON their first arrival, subject to our general observations with regard to this class. Hope Estate.—This estate is also situate in Buccament Valley, but higher up, and consequently more healthy. From the evidence it will appear that no person immediately interested in the estate appeared before the commissioners, but evidence of the medical attendant was so far satisfactory, that, coupled with our local knowledge, guides us in including it in this class. We have since received a letter from the manager, which is inserted in the Appendix. 0.32. Queensbury 3 L3

446

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Queensbury Estate.—This estate also is in Buccament Valley. From the evidence given by the manager, and from our knowledge of the locality on which the immigrants are living, we think we may safely put this in the second class. Emigration. Penniston's Estate.—The old manager-house and negro houses on this estate have always ST. VINCENT. been considered unhealthy. But the proprietor last year built a new manager's house and several new houses for immigrants, on a rising ground, at least half a mile to the windward Encl. 2, in No. 4. of the swamp which was the supposed cause of the previous epidemic. The good effect the change of situation appears to have had on the Barbadian immigrants, and the good health the Madeira immigrants appear to have enjoyed for the short time since their arrival, induce us to include this estate in the second class. Rutland Vale Estate.—This estate is in a valley to the northward of the Buccament Valley ; and nothing can more plainly show the difference there may be in localities on the same estate than the great improvement in the health of the immigrants since their change of abode on this estate. This appears from the evidence adduced, and from the knowledge the commissioners have of the locality of the " Mountain House," and of the works at Griffongs referred to, and which they consider most healthy situations. The commissioners were much struck with the healthy appearance of the immigrants on this estate. Mount Wynne Estate.—This estate is included in this class in consequence of the paucity of evidence given, and no information having been received with respect to a strong impression on the minds of the commissioners of a great mortality having taken place there some years ago amongst some British immigrants, though they believed it was caused by the exhalation arising from the exposure to the sun of some undistributed noxious imported manures. Since this was written we have received a letter from Dr. Orr, which is inserted in the Appendix. Cumberland Estate.—Many of the grounds which made us include Rutland Vale in this, actuate us with regard to this estate. The improving locality 011 which they have now placed their immigrants lead us to expect that others may be safely located there on their first arrival. Richmond. Vale Estate.—This estate has had no immigrants located on it. We are of opinion that there are various sites on the estate on which healthy localities might be made for immigrants, but not in the present negro houses, or in or near the manager's late house alluded to in the evidence. With regard to all the other estates in the district, we consider them quite eligible for the location of immigrants on their first arrival in the colony, and place them, consequently, in the third class. In the evidence it is invariably noted the estates the commissioner, Dr. Fahy, visits as medical attendant, and with regard to which the other commissioners had the advantage of his information. We have, See. (signed) E. Poison, S. J. Dr. Fahy. A. Robertson, Proprietor, Appendix, No. 1.

APPENDIX.

Appendix.

Pembroke Estate.—Henry Adams, manager of Pembroke Estate, in the leeward district, says Pembroke Estate is situated in the Buccament Valley. I lived on the estate six years ago as overseer; I am now managing it. I have known it during that time; there are no swamps. I consider the estate healthy; there are no cases of fever, except sometimes; during the last 12 months only one death, a negro, he died from consumption. There were no Portuguese on the estate till the arrival of the Eliza, about a month ago; there were then 22 adults and children; there has been no sickness amongst them at"'all; the negro population is about 80, or more. There have been at times cases of fever on the estate, but the mortality has not been greater than other estates ; the accounts of deaths have not been very strictly kept since the abrogation of the apprenticeship. I will forward the commissioners as correct a statement of deaths for the last six years as I can. The greater number of the Portuguese are living in houses built for them on any elevated situation, being the rising ground in the middle of the valley; I intend to put the others in the same situation. Dr. Kennedy is the medical man on the estate; he has attended for the last four years Dr. Kennedy says,—I have attended the estate for the last two years, during which time I have met with very few cases of fever or any other disease. The generality of diseases peculiar to the estate are those of intermittent fever, and occasionally a few cases of bowel complaints, and generally assuming a mild type. I consider Pembroke Estate healthy; since the arrival of the Portuguese they have been healthy ; I think their present location a good situation. The manager subsequently informed the commissioners that the number of deaths for the last six years were nine ; three died between 80 and 90 years of age, two from leprosy, and four from natural causes; the population is about 80; there are now living on the estate six persons of upwards of 80. The Hope Estate.—No person attended from the estate; but Dr. Kennedy, who was present, said he had attended it six or eight months, and lie considers it healthy; there are 11 Portuguese on it. There have been no deaths ; one is labouring under intermitting fever, the others are healthy. I do not think there is any swamp. Dr. Fahy attended the immigrants when first arrived. The

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The manager, Mr. Black, subsequently informed the commissioners by letter that he had Appendix, No. x. been manager 12 months; there had been a few cases of slight fever amongst the natives, Emigration. but no deaths. That 11 Madeira immigrants were located on the estate on the 18th January 1846; a few suffered from fever in June last, all recovered, and have continued in good VINCENT. ST. health since they were then attended by Dr. Fahy, but latterly by Dr. Kennedy. Queensbury Estate.—Thomas Slater says, he is manager, has lived on it 35 years; there are a few swamps on the bottom land, but not near where the people are living. I have not 'Encl. 1, in No. 4. had a fever case for six months; there are very few cases of fever, not sufficient to call for a medical man. In October last I hired eight Portuguese labourers, one of them, a boy, got fever soon after his arrival, and I called in Dr. Fahy; he is quite well now, and a woman is now ill, and Dr. Fahy attends her; they are located in a different situation from the negroes, they are higher up behind the dwelling house. There are about 100 negroes on the estate, including children. There have been four deaths during the last 12 months; they did not die of fever, they were of intemperate habits. I will forward the commissioners a list of the deaths for the last six years, and as correct a statement as I can of the population. From a subsequent communication there appeared to have been 11 deaths in the last six years. Dr. Fahy attends this estate. Population is 114. Pennistons Estates.—John Cobham, manager of the estate about 11 months. The negro labourers, from the present locality of their houses, are subject to intermittent fever. There have been no deaths from fever during that time, only from old age. I got 11 Portuguese (on the arrival of the Eliza, about a month ago), counting children, and there has been one birth since. They have kept their health whilst they have been there. When I went on the estate I brought about 20 Barbadian labourers from windward with me; they had been in the island about a year previously. At first I was obliged to put them with the other negroes for about three months, during which time they suffered much from intermittent fever; I then changed their place of residence, built houses upon a rising ground, from the swamp, near a house which I had built for myself; the Barbadians have been quite well since. On the arrival of the Portuguese, I put them in houses already built, in the same place. I have kept my own health. I have no idea what the mortality was before I went on the estate. Dr. Stacpool has attended the estates two months.—It appears to me the situation in which the Portuguese and Barbadians are located is very healthy; during the time I have attended the estate there has been no sickness amongst the Portuguese or Barbadians. Cane Grove Estate.—John M'Fee, Esq., manager and attorney, has lived on the estate 30 years. The labourers on the estate are occasionally subject to intermittent fevers during the prevalence of southerly winds, and generally accompanied with ague; it lasts during the time wind continues in that quarter, and then disappears. There are few or no cases of death arising from that cause: there is a swamp at the bay, that is a mile and a quarter from the negro houses; there is no other low land in which water lodges nearer than that. I do not think those who are newly located on the estate are more subject to the fever than those who are longer on it. Some Barbadians who have been with me two years are not more sickly than the others. I cannot say exactly what the number of deaths have been of late years, but we have been extremely healthy. The deaths for the last five years have not averaged more than three, I should say. There are a number of old people on the estate. About 14 months ago I hired 56 Portuguese labourers, old and young; for the first six months, from January to July, they were very healthy; after that period they became very sickly, and there were several deaths, I do not exactly know how many, but a great many. I do not attribute deaths to the intermittent fever, but principally from their own filthiness, by keeping their homes in a shocking state, making a temple of ease of it, and all round about it, so much so, I was obliged to direct the negroes on the estate to have it cleared away. I also had to direct the interpreter to go and dig holes in the ground to cover the filth, to turn them out of the houses for the purpose of doing it; the stench arising from it in the heat of the day was insufferable, and quite sufficient to make anybody sick. Dr. Kennedy, the medical man who attended the estate, frequently declared, if they were allowed to go on in that way it would cause a plague. They were constantly in the habit of stripping themselves naked at night; though warned repeatedly of the danger, and that it would prove fatal if they continued to do so, they continued in the habit; they indulged in their filthy habits of stripping themselves naked both before and during their sickness; whilst taking calomel they would leave their homes, go out on the wet ground, and lie there for hours together, though warned of the consequences by myself, the sick-nurse and the interpreter. I think it was in the month of September I took over about 14, at different times, to the Isle a Quatre; some who had intermittent fevers; one or two died there, the others recovered, but those with ulcers did not recover, because they would not allow the attendant properlv to clean them. Those who returned got the intermittent fever again, but very slightly, and very few of them ; perhaps there might have been one or two who died after cVming back. I did not bring Dr. Kennedy to give his evidence, because I did not think it necessary, but I will do so if the commissioners wish it. The Portuguese were comfortably located in floored and shingled houses, in a comfortable situation; I mean the chambers only were floored. The first six months they were with me I fed them, not paying them—not paying them money; about a month after that I fed them partially, and then discontinued altogether feeding them, except those were sick. I think the way they prepared their cakes made from wheat-flour, being not sufficiently baked, caused indigestion, and brought on sickness ; I understand that was the case in Demerara; they will not assist one another when they 0.32. 3L4 are

448 Appendix, No. 1.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

are sick, nor will they help to bury the dead. Dr. Kennedy is not the medical attendant at present upon the estate; Dr. Fahy has been since the 1st of March, and has frequently seen Emigration. them before; they make vegetable soup over night, and take it the next morning in a state of fermentation. ST. VINCENT. Antonia da Silva, Portuguese interpreter, residing on Cane Grove.—I have resided there since my arrival, which will be a year the 17th of this month; I found about 50 young and End. 2, in No. 4. old there; some of them have enjoyed their health, some not; they have been subject to fever, ague and bowel complaint; there have been many deaths, I cannot say exactly, about 20. They do not prepare their food in a proper manner, and I do it for them—I mean when they were sick. The food is not what they were accustomed to in Madeira; in Madeira they lived upon a vegetable diet; on their arrival here they have flour, pork, salt fish and rice. I had fever about two months after my arrival; it was not strong, but allowed me to walk about. I went with them to the Isle a Quatre; I took 14 with me, and eight arrived afterwards; I think six died there. I cannot say if it is a healthy situation in which they lived. Those who returned from Isle a Quatre did not have fever again, though they have complained of great weakness; I think only one died of those that returned from the Isle. There are now about seven or ten at work. Dr. Kennedy.—I have attended this estate off and on since 1835, during which time fever did not prevail to any extent amongst the labourers. Mr. M'Fee and family suffered more from the disease. On the arrival of the Portuguese they were located in houses, half between the works and Mr. M'Fee's dwelling, which had been put in repair, and the chambers floored. When they were taken with fever, about six months after their arrival, I attended and prescribed for them, and recommended having them removed, which was done; they were removed first to the bay, when some got better, and the others were removed to the Isle a Quatre; during their sickness Mr. M'Fee was particularly attentive to them in seeing the nourishment given. The cause of the fever is partly owing to the predisposition of the estate to southerly winds, and to the sun causing large volumes of malaria, which is carried to the negro houses at certain periods. The fever is also owing to the way in which the Portuguese cook their victuals, and to the different kinds of vegetables boiled together and left in the pot till fermentation takes place, alter which they eat them in that state. Ulcers have also been very frequent, which I ascribe entirely to their habit of body, the filthy way in which they live. I. know a great many died, but cannot say the number; eating flour not properly dressed may produce the above diseases. I decline giving an opinion regarding the locality of Cane Grove estate, as a proper situation for immigrants newly arrived from Madeira. Joseph Mattoss, Portuguese interpreter, said he would interpret faithfully what Joao Saldanha said : Joao Saldanha says he is a Portuguese immigrant, living on Cane Grove; he bad been here a year on the 7th of January last; including himself, there are six in family : there were seven, but one died about Christmas, his youngest child. For the first six months after hi3 arrival he worked and was in good health, never missed but one day; he was only fed for the six months, less a fortnight; he got sick on the 3d July, and part of the family ; since that time they have been always sick, lie took his wife and eldest daughter to the Isle a Quatre; there were some more Portuguese went with him; about seventeen, lie got worse there; he was worse when he came back, and the same with his family; during some days he was at the Isle a Quatre they bad nothing to eat but corn meal in grain. Six of the Portuguese who went over to the Isle died there. There were about 57 Portuguese went on the estate at first, when he went; about 26 deaths have taken place. He is not sure how many of those who returned from the Isle a Quatre died. Rutland Vale Estate.—Alexander Chalmers, manager of the estate upwards of six years, says, the health of the black population has been generally good; at some seasons they have fever and ague; generally August and September. I have never known any of them die from this cause; I do not think there have been more than five deaths from disease whilst I have been on the estate. In 1843 there were about 120 residents on the estate; there are not more now than 40 ; there is not a drop of stagnant water on the estate. I had out two Scotch ploughmen in 1840, who kept their health ; one went home in health after three years' and a half service ; the other is there now. In November 1845 I hired 33 Portuguese labourers on their arrival in the colony, and since then I have hired 49, making in all 72 adults and children. At first they were located on the lower part of the estate in the negro houses, They remained there about 10 months. For the first few months they were pretty healthy; after that some got fever and ague. Four or five adults died; two children were born there, who also died ; and two children, one two, and the other three years, also died. Dr. Kennedy said it was worms that killed the children; of the five who died, one, a boy, died of fever, and one from constipation. Dr. Fahy saw the latter one first before she died, and her husband told Mr. Mattoss, the interpreter, she was subject to it in Madeira. The husband, knowing the wife was subject to the complaint and likely to die, brought out a young girl to marry, which he did on his wile's death. The three other adults died of bowel complaints. Between the months of September and December last, I removed the Portuguese up to the higher part of the estate; I fitted up the " Mountain House," which was the residence of the proprietor formerly, for them, and also the works "Greffongs." Immediately after their removal fever and ague left every one of them, they have not been troubled with it since; there have been no cases since their removal. One old man, who did not work from his arrival, had a sore on his leg, which dried up, and Dr. Kennedy said if it did so it would cause his death ; his wife, an old woman, died immediately after. In all, 12 died, including young

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young and old. There are four now have sore feet; they are getting better, and able to Appendix, No. 1. walk. I attribute the bowel complaint to their eating unripe fruits of all descriptions. Dr. Kennedy.—I have attended the estate, as medical adviser, for the last four years, Emigration. during which time I have had very few cases amongst the black labouring population! Since the arrival of the Portuguese, when they were located at the negro houses, inter- ST. VINCENT. mittent fever, and a few cases of bowel complaints with ulcers, seemed to be most predominant diseases. I thought it proper to recommend the propriety of having them removed to Encl. 2, in No. 4. the " Mountain House," a distance of more than a mile from their then location* since their removal, from the change of situation, fever has not prevailed. There have been 12 deaths amongst them previous to their removal, which I ascribe to a change of diet, and eating unripe fruits, and the way they cook their victuals ; a few of the 12 were children, who died from worms ; one, an old man, died from general debility and old age. In my opinion, the estate is healthy. Mount Wynne Estate.—John Wiseman : I have been manager of the estate for seven months ; with regard to the healthiness of the estate, I can only speak with regard to the time I have been there. I should think there are a hundred souls on the estate. There have been only a few cases of fever since I have been on the estate. There was only one case of stubborn intermittent fever. There were other slight ones. There have been four deaths; two were old people between 70 and 80, a diseased child and another child. A blacksmith died of dropsy; this man was sent, from his own desire, from the hospital in town to die on the estate. I do not think there is any stagnant water ; very little ; there are two streams, one on each side of the estate. Dr. Fahy attends the estate. There are no Portuguese on the estate. The following is an extract from a letter from Dr. Orr, the former medical attendant, to the manager, and by him forwarded to the Commissioners. " The fever which prevailed at Mount Wynne in 183!) was general throughout the islands, owing to a quantity of whale blubber introduced as manure. The manure was used at Mount Wynne, in the southern valley, and was not sufficiently covered when put into the ground. The fever at Mount Wynne was very severe and general, but never attacked those who were living in the new houses about the works. Before this time the estate was very healthy indeed. I should consider it one of the most healthy places in the island. Peter's Hope Estate.—William Leslie, manager of the estate, has been so nearly three years. There are about 70 or 80 black labourers, adults and children, residents on the estate ; there has been no fever amongst them whilst I have been there. They have not been subject to fevers. There are no swamps. I do not think more than three people died since I have been on the estate; two were old people, and one child. I have no Portuguese resident there, or any other immigrants. Dr. Fahy attends the estate. Wallilabou Estate.—Malcolm M'Intyre says he has been manager nearly six years. There are upwards of 100 negroes, adults and children, living on the estate; since I have been there they have not been subject to fever, and no other diseases. There have not been more than seven or eight deaths during the six years ; they were all old people and young children, the former between 70 and 80 years of age. There have been no immigrants of any sort. There are no swamps. Dr. Fahy attends the estate. Belle Isle Estate.—Malcolm M'Intyre, manager of the estate nearly two years, and has known it well for the last six years. There have been about 40 black population living there. J hey have been very healthy; subject to no fevers. There are no swamps. There are 3!) Portuguese immigrants; 38 were located there on their first arrival, about eight months ago. There was one case of fever about five months after their arrival, and one or two trifling cases; there have been no deaths; there is a house erected to give them change of air if required. Dr. Fahy attends the estate. Spring and Grove Estates.—John Hill is proprietor of the estate; has lived there lately, four years and a half; there is a resident black population of about 100, including children. There have been no cases of intermittent fevers, or any epidemic ; there have been only four deaths, old people and children, two of them of scrofula. There are no swamps on the estate. There are no immigrants of any kind. Dr. Fahy is called in when a medical attendant is required. Mount Hope and L'auce Mahaut Estates.—Thomas C. Mills, lessee of these estates. I have been three years at L'auce Mahaut, and one year and a half at Mount Hope. There were about 20 persons living at L'auce Mahaut when I first went there, and about 15 on the other estate ; on both estates they have been quite healthy. There are no swamps on either estates. Three or four old people died at L'auce Mahaut; during that time they did not die of fever, and none on the Hope. I engaged 22 Portuguese immigrants in March 1846. I have had 12 since (in October last year); this includes adults and children ; one of the first, a man, died from fever; one also died at Mount Hope, having requested to go there; there was no sickness otherwise amongst them ; they are all well now. Dr. Fahy is the medical attendant. Cumberland. Estate.—Henry Hunt has been manager of the estate three years. There are about 65 people of all ages resident on the estate, except immigrants. They are generally healthy, but are subject to bilious lever; there have been four deaths annually; not more. They were most of them old persons. It was old age was the cause of their death ; one child died. There are no swamps or stagnant water; the river runs direct down; the house near the works is unhealthy for Europeans; the negroes reside much higher up, and 0.32. 3 M °

450 Appendix, No. 1.

Emigration. ST. VINCENT.

Encl. 2, in No. 4.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

to windward. In July last I engaged 17 Portuguese immigrants, adults and children; they were pretty well for about two months, when two young people and an old man were taken ill. The medical attendant, Dr. Fahy, told me the children died of consumption, the old man of fever; their country people were very neglectful of them. After their iilness I removed the others from the negro houses, where they were first located, to some houses at Coram's, at the top of a hill, near my own residence, and I built premises for them where they now reside; they have been since free from fevers, though subject to sores. I attribute the sores to change of food in the first place, and their dirty habits and inattention to them afterwards. If I had any more immigrants, I should immediately place them at Coram's. Dr. Fahy is the medical attendant. Troumaca Estate.—The following communication was received from the manager of the estate. Daniel S. Paynter manages Troumaca, and has done so for two years. During that time there has been a few cases of fever of a mild character, and children ill generally from worms. The deaths are four children, and one female, a cripple. The native population amount to 38, big and little, on the 22d of May 184G. There were 18 Portuguese immigrants located on this estate on the 1st of January 1847 ; there were 12 additional Portuguese arrived on the estate, making together in number 30. In September 1846, a sickly child died, and in October a child was born. With the exception of one laid up from sore foot, they enjoy good health; there is a house on the hill for their use when change of air is recommended. Dr. Fahy attends the estate. Belmont Estate.—The following written communication was received from the manager. " Number of deaths amongst the labourers on this estate during the three years last past, to date : an old woman about 90 years of age died; a young child, about 12 months, died apparently from the effects of worms; a woman drowned in the cistern: total deaths, four. This estate's labourers are not subject to fevers at any period of the year. Number of Portuguese located on the estate about 30, from Madeira. Two young children of the immigrants died from the effects of worms ; two men were drowned off Mount Wynne Point. Two children born since their arrival here. They are all in good health, and the adults all at work, with the exception of two men at present laid up with sore feet. The average number of people on this estate I believe to be 50. Dr. Fahy attends the estate.—Alexander Robertson, Junior." Rosebank Estate.—William Parsons has been manager of the estate two years; there were about 60 adults and children living on the estate; they have enjoyed very good health; never saw any of them have fever; two children have died ; four old people ; they all died of diseases totally unconnected with fever; one in childbirth, one old age, and two from leprosy. There are no swamps or stagnant water ; there is a running stream. I engaged 16 Portuguese, adults and children, on the 13th June last; only one, a girl, had fever and ague; she has quite recovered; no deaths. Dr. Fahy is the medical attendant. Petit Bordell and Shape Estates.—Charles Stephens says, I have been manager of these estates three years; there are about 100 labourers and children living on them; they are not subject to fever, ague or epidemic diseases, or at all. There have been about eight deaths in that time, nearly all old people. One was drowned, and one found dead on the Souffrière. There were no deaths from fever. There are no swamps or stagnant water. I have no immigrants. Dr. Fahy is the medical adviser. . Golden Grove Estate.—Mr. William Fraser has lived on the Golden Grove Estate as manager for seven years. Average population about 70 labourers and children. Very little sickness; no fever. Three old people and four young children have died on the estate during my management. No swamps or stagnant water on the estate. There are no immigrants. Dr. Fahy has been occasionally called as medical attendant. Richmond Vale Estate.—Thomas Parker; I have been manager seven years. There are about 182 adults and children, residents on the estate ; they have been remarkably healthy. About 18 months ago there were several people laid up with fever, but not serious; it lasted about two months. I attribute it to a quantity of bush about the negro houses, which, when I removed it, the fever ceased. There was nothing of the kind before or since. Since the epidemic there have been six or seven deaths; these were chiefly old people and young children ; I think there were four or five deaths annually. They have been generally from decay, and young children. Dr. Fahy was the medical attendant before the epidemic. I do not consider there is any swamp on the estate. There is no stagnant water; there is a dead level to windward, which was formerly a swamp, but is now filled up, but yet is not fit for cultivation. There is a house situated near the level in which Mr. Hunt, the overseer, now resides. I formerly lived there, but did not enjoy good health, but he does. The negro houses do not lie in the current of air from the swamp; the negro houses are situated on the rise of a hill, with plenty of fresh and salt water. I have no immigrants, but if I had I would locate them on the same spot, but higher up. Richmond Estate.—William M'Kenzie manager of the estate for seven years. There were about 300 adults and children resident on the estate. There has been no epidemic or intermittent fever; at present they appear suffering from a cold, which I attribute to the present state of the weather. The average annual mortality is about four or five. Only two middle-aged people have died, one from dropsy, and one from consumption; two children

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855

dren from falls, and the others, some from old age, and some from leprosy, and two drowned. Appendix, No. 1. There is not anything like a swamp and stagnant water; it is too dry and sandy. Dr. Gumming was the medical man attendant till lately ; now Dr. Fahy. The former often for six Emigration. months would not have a patient. Dr. Fahy attends this estate at present. Wallilabon Estate.—Joseph Strafford has lived on the estate for seven years as manager ST. VINCENT. there. There were about 80 adults and children of the native population resident. They always enjoyed good health ; no epidemic fevers or ague. There have been about two deaths Encl. 2, in No. 4. annually, certainly not more; they were all old people and children, except one woman in childbirth. There are no swamps or stagnant water; it is nearly all a sandy soil from the Souffrière. On the 4th of December last, I hired 24 Portuguese immigrants, including the families. They enjoy good health up to the present time, with the exception of three, two of whom died, one, an infant, from an ulcerated sore throat, and the other, an adult, from dropsy brought on from cold by over-exertion; the other, who recovered, had sore throat and cold. Dr. Arnot is called when any one is ill.

Enclosure 3, in No. 4. Commissioners appointed by his Excellency the Lieutenant-governor, under the 20th Encl. 3, in No. 4. clause of the Immigration Act, to report upon such localities in the district of Kingstown as, from unhealthiness or other causes, may be considered ineligible for the settlement of immigrants during the period of their first or original contract, beg leave to lay before his Excellency this their report. And first, the commissioners would express their regret that the difficulty they have experienced in obtaining satisfactory evidence has delayed their report, and perhaps rendered it less useful than contemplated by the Immigration Act. In the Kingstown district there are 37 sugar estates, and also six settlements or plantations of arrow-root; of the sugar estates, 29, as comprised in the schedule annexed, marked (A.), the commissioners are enabled to report favourably of their location, as settlements for immigrants upon their first or original contract; but with respect to those marked in schedules (B.) and (C.), being eight in number, they deem it their duty to report less favourably of as healthy localities for immigrants. The commissioners regret that the testimony respecting these estates is not as full as they could wish, and therefore, in addition to the notes of evidence taken by them, they submit their own opinions, derived from many years' observation, and partly from information from others. Amos Vale Estate.—This estate suffers from southerly winds, which prevail usually from the month of August to November, and the position of the labourers' houses then becomes unhealthy, and it does not appear prudent to place immigrants upon this property. The broad range of low swampy lands, but yet very partially drained, may be referred to, and will afford a ready explanation of the cause of this unhealthiness; and it is feared that perfect drainage," the work of several years," judging from the means at present employed, will alone remedy the evil. Should immigrants, however, be located upon this property, their dwellings should either be to windward of the swamp, or removed far up the valley, when perhaps they might enjoy health. Villa Estate.— This estate also suffers from low swampy lands, which, unless effectually drained, will always render the people resident liable to levers, There are lands, however, upon the estate, to which the houses of the labourers might be removed, affording greater protection from the influence of the low lands, the extent or surface of which is not so great as at Arnos Vale estate, and admitting, therefore, of being more easily and more speedily drained. Brighton Estate is fully admitted to have proved an unhealthy location ; the low lands upon this property being the cause of sickness. Upper Diamond Estate is also unhealthy; the low lands upon this estate and the former generate miasma, which extends to Lower Diamond estate, and sometimes to Belvidere, and is the cause of fever upon both these properties. The commissioners have deemed it prudent to call attention to the above five properties, in order that, if necessary, further evidence may be obtained; they would have relied much upon a statement of the average of mortality upon each estate, compared with its number of residents, but records of this kind have not been usually kept. The position of the labourers' houses upon Coubamarou estate, and the Rivulet estate, is stated in the evidence to be on low lands, and therefore ineligible as locations for Portuguese immigrants; there is little doubt that similar causes operate in other cases, but it has not been the province of the commissioners to inspect the dwellings upon the several estates in the district. It is gratifying to the commissioners to be enabled to state, that at the present time the Kingstown district, including the estates named in schedules (B.) and (C.), are remarkably healthy, and, as far as they have obtained information, the Portuguese immigrants are also in full enjoyment of health. (signed) Daniel Huqqins, W. G. Alois, St. Vincent, April 1847. John Reily, Provisionally appointed Stipendiary Magistrates. THE

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452 Appendix, No, 1. Emigration. ST. VINCENT.

End. 3,in No 4.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE SCHEDULE (A.) Argyle Estate Bellair Estate Cane Flail Estate Carrapan Estate Calder Estate Calder Ridge Estate Coubmoru Estate Clare Valley Estate Camden Park Estate Cane Garden Estate Cane Wood Estate Carruth Estate (arrow-root) Dauphnie Estate Escape Estate Eversham Vale Estate Fountain Estate Fair Flail Estate Golden Vale Estate Harmony Hall Estate Kingstown Park Estate Lance Joyeaux Estate Liberty Lodge Estate Marriaqua, or Aker's Hill Estate Mount Pleasant Estate Montrose Estate Prospect Estate Redemption Estate Richmond Hill Estate Sion Hill Estate Ratho Mill Estate

SCHEDULE (B.) Brighton Estate Amos Vale Estate Upper Diamond Estate Lower Diamond Estate Villa Estate.

SCHEDULE

(C.)

Belvidere Estate Coubmarou Estate Rivulet Estate

Arrow-root Plantations, or other Settlements: Whim Joseph's Land Kilburnie Lodge Pilgrim Mount Agoutie George Findlay.

Arnos Vale Estate. The evidence of W. G. M. G. Grant, Esq.—Arnos Vale has been under my superintendence for about 10 years past. Its locality is healthy, but from the want of drainage in the low lands it suffers occasionally from fevers. Drainage has however been carried to some extent during the past 12 months, and is yet being perfected, and when completer, salubrious will no doubt so improve the estate in respect to health as to render it equally as any in the island similarly situated. No fever has presented itself during the last 12 months of any consequence, although the seasons have been rainy. Thirty odd Madeira labourers have been located on it since January, and have enjoyed tolerable health during the period, and work cheerfully and are satisfied. The evidence of Dr. Kennedy.—I have attended Arnos Vale for the last six years, and with the exception of one year, when the fever prevailed in the town of Kingstown. I treated at Arnos Vale about 70 cases of fever; no deaths occurred; this was in the year 1841. Since that period fever has not prevailed on this estate, and I am of opinion it is a fit and proper locality for immigrants having recently arrived from Madeira or elsewhere. The mortality on Arnos Vale is not greater than on other estates. There are certain low lands upon this property, which if not properly drained, especially during the prevalence of southerly winds, might engender fevers. During my attendance, there has not been any fever, mortality among the white persons resident upon the estate. An overseer died from severe but he was brought up for change of air from Mount Wynne estate, where he had a fever. A member of Mr. Grant's family died last year from fever. There are about 30 Portuguese labourers on the estate; since their arrival (about three months) two slight case of fever have occurred, but otherwise these persons are healthy. Cane Hall Estate. Francis Esq.—I am proprietor of Cane Hall, and it has always of Winn, The evidence been considered a very healthy situation. I have about 20 of the Portuguese labourers ; out dysenof that number I lost two, but I do not attribute this to the situation; one a case of tery, the other an old man. on The evidence of Dr. Kennedy.—I attend the above estate, and have done so off and since 1830, and have always found it to be a very healthy estate ; about 20 Portuguese labourers are located upon the estate. There have been two deaths from dysentery ; one died at the colonial hospital, the other an old man, who came to the estate diseased an never performed any hard labour. Fountain Estate. estate The evidence of Dr. Haillie.—I have been the medical attendant of the Fountain for about three years past; I have always found it a very healthy estate ; not subject to any endemic.

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Bellair Estate. The evidence of W. G. M. G. Grant, Esq.—This estate is under my superintendence, and may justly be considered one of the most healthy situations in the island. The evidence of Dr. Kennedy.— I attend the above estate, and have done so for a number of years. I have always found it healthy and not subject to fever or other disease. There are at present no Portuguese located here, but the situation is particularly favourable. Dauphnie. The evidence of Dr. Huygins.—No Portuguese have been located here, but I consider the situation very eligible. Villa Estate. The evidence of Johnson Camplin, Esq.—I am the manager of the Villa, and have enjoyed very much better health since I removed from Pembroke estate (to leeward). I consider it a healthy situation, particularly so, as I am draining the swampy land. The evidence of Henry Adams, Esq.—I was the manager of the Villa about six years, and during that period I enjoyed good health. My family were with me for about 18 months, and generally enjoyed pretty good health. Mrs. Adams died there, but I cannot attribute her death to fever alone. With respect to the health of the estate generally, and especially of the negroes, I would say, I have known fever prevail during the time of the year when southerly and westerly winds prevail; at the same time, though the negroes were laid up with fever, I do not remember much mortality ; that is, to greater extent than on other estates. The evidence of Dr. Baillie.—I have attended the Villa estate for two years previous to February last. I cannot say the estate is a healthy locality, from the circumstance of the negro houses being built upon too low a part of the estate. The negroes do not enjoy good health from this cause ; some of the lands being swampy. As a locality for Portuguese, I cannot recommend it, unless indeed they be provided with houses on higher ground. I allude to the residences only as being unhealthy ; the houses should be removed. There were three Portuguese on the property when I had the medical charge; these people were all sick, and I understand two of them have since died. Dr. Stackpole is now the medical attendant. Revolution Hall Estate. John Drape, Esq.—I am proprietor of this estate, and deem the situation healthy. The negro houses are not so favourably situated as I could wish. I have no Madeira people located. The evidence of Dr. Kennedy.— I attend Revolution Hall, and have done so for some time past, and my opinion is that this estate is healthy, and a favourable location for Portuguese or other immigrants. Fairhall Estate, Honourable James Porter.—I am the attorney of this property; a considerable number (I believe .TO) of Portuguese labourers have been located upon this estate for the past 12 months; they have been generally healthy, and I consider this estate well adapted for these people. The evidence of Dr. Baillie.—I attend as medical practitioner on the above estate, and have done so for the past 18 months. This is a most healthy estate both for native and Portuguese labourers, and it gives me pleasure to bear testimony to the very kind treatment which the latter receive on this property. My orders for nourishment, &c. of every description are strictly attended to, and from this attention on the part of Mr. Dodds, the manager, I attribute the success of my treatment. If similar attention, and proper nourishment (which is especially required by the Portuguese) was given elsewhere, I am of opinion the mortality would not be so great. Golden Vale. Ratho Mill Estate. The evidence of Dr. Baillie.—I attended Ratho Mill for about 18 months. The situation of the estate is healthy; the labouring population enjoy excellent health. When I attended, no Portuguese (with the exception, however, of two domestic servants, who were healthy) were located upon this property, but I consider the situation very favourable for them. Prospect Estate. The evidence of John Wyllie, Esq.—I am manager of the Prospect estate, and have been so for the past two years; during that period no sickness bevond the ordinary sickness lias occurred to any of the people on the estate. I have 30 Portuguese labourers on the estate, 20 of which number were placed on t he property in March 1846, and 19 subsequently. We have not lost one, but have one birth. Dr. Hvggins.—I concur in what Mr. Wyllie has stated. I consider this a healthy location for the Portuguese immigrants,

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857 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. ST. VINCENT.

Encl. 3, in No. 4.

454 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration.

ST. VINCENT. End. 3, in No. 4.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE Belvidere Estate.

Honourable James Porter.—I am the attorney of this property, and know the estate perfectly well. I consider this a healthy location for Portuguese; there has been but little sickness on the property. I do not consider the negro houses under the influence of the low lands of the Upper Diamond estate, being to windward of it. William Sinclair.—I am the manager of Belvidere, and a good deal of fever prevails among the negro houses—I think the effect of the swamp on Lower Diamond. Dr. Sprott.—There are no Portuguese located upon this property, but I consider it healthy. Harmony Hall Estate (not in cultivation). 4 Honourable James Porter.—I have known this property for a great many years. perfectly healthy. Brighton Estate.

It is

Hon. James Porter.—I refer to Dr. Sprott for testimony regarding the property. Dr. Sprott.—Portuguese labourers were located upon Brighton estate on the early introduction of these immigrants, but owing to the sickness which prevailed among them after a short residence there, and the obstinacy of their diseases, principally intermitted fever, which were only partially amenable to medical treatment, the proprietor, the lion. H. M. Grant, after consulting Dr. Dakins and myself on the subject, came to the resolution of removing them entirely to other estates, a measure which was productive of benefit, for although a few died after the change was made from the maladies contracted at Brighton, the majority are at present, so far as I know, useful and able-bodied labourers. Lower Diamond Estate. C. A. Cuvillie, Esq.—I am the manager of this estate; have lived upon it for about eleven months, but upon the next estate, the Rivulet, for many years. The Lower Diamond is a healthy estate; myself and family have enjoyed health, one child excepted. At the present time the labourers are enjoying excellent health, but at the fall of the year fevers prevail, which may arise from the swamp upon the lands of the Upper Diamond estate adjoining. Last year we had about 25 or 30 Portuguese located upon Lower Diamond estate; they enjoyed good health, but I parted with them because we could not get a full day's work from them ; there was no mortality among them. We have, during the past five weeks, received nineteen other Portuguese, and some little time before that six Portuguese were removed to this estate from the Escape, both properties belonging to same proprietor; all these people enjoy good health. Dr. Sprott.— I was the medical attendant of Lower Diamond, as also Escape estate, for a few months only, after Portuguese immigrants were located there. Fever began to make its appearance among them, but for further information regarding the adaptation of these two properties as initiable localities for Portuguese immigrants, I would refer to my successor in the medical charge, Dr. Baillie. I would only state my opinion, that as Lower Diamond is situated directly to leeward of the swamp on the Upper Diamond, and is known to be sickly at particular seasons, especially when the drainage of the said swamp is not sufficiently attended to, I much fear that immigrants from Madeira will not continue healthy in this situation, at least until they have become acclimated. At the same time I must state that during the two years I attended these two properties (Escape and Lower Diamond;, the sickness and mortality among the negro population was by no means great. Dr. Baillie.—I consider Lower Diamond estate very healthy for Portuguese immigrants. I attended this estate lately for about six or eight months, and I do not consider the health of the estate suffers from the swamp at the Upper Diamond; at least I have no knowledge of that, having had but one or two cases of fever during my attendance. Rivulet Estate. C. A. Cuvillie, Esq.—I lived upon this estate a great many years as manager, and myself and family enjoyed good health, and I believe the estate to be perfectly healthy. Dr. Sprott attended the estate formerly. Dr. Sprott.—I attended this estate formerly, and I would not advise Portuguese immigrants to be located upon this property, though generally healthy, unless the dwellings for the labourers be removed to a different spot. Dr. Baillie.—I am of same opinion ; but otherwise the estate is very healthy. Carrapan Estate. Wm. G.Alves, Esq.—This property has always been considered healthy, and suited to the European constitution. I have no Portuguese located here. Dr. Sprott is the medical attendant of this estate. Dr. Sprott.—I attend Carrapan estate ; there are no Portuguese immigrants upon it; but from the general healthiness of the situation, I consider it well adapted for them. Marriaqua Estate. Hon. James Porter.—Portuguese immigrants have been located upon this property during the last eighteen months; there has been no particular sickness amongst them during that period, and no deaths have occurred amongst those first located. Several Portuguese were removed to this estate from Brighton estate in consequence of their suffering from fever; two deaths occurred after they were removed, from the effects of previous sickness, but the others recovered, and have remained quite healthy. Dr.

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Dr. Sprott.—Aker's Hill, or Marriaqua estate, should rank in the highest class as regards the healthiness of the Portuguese immigrants. The returns will show that several deaths have occurred here, and considering the small number of immigrants, would lead to the conclusion, to one not acquainted with the origin of the mortality, that the estate is an unhealthy one, whereas the fact is, almost all the deaths occurred consisted of persons removed from Brighton estate in consequence of protracted sickness.

859 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. ST. VINCENT.

Encl. 3, in No. 4. Calder Estate. John Parsons, Esq.—I am the manager of this estate, and have been so for nearly two years, and have lived in the locality for the past twelve years; during all this time I have enjoyed very good health, and my family likewise. The labourers are all very healthy, and the Portuguese labourers especially so. Of the total number of Portuguese on the estate, twenty-five have been located since November 1845; these have enjoyed excellent health; no deaths. The remaining twenty-two Portuguese were placed upon the estate in the latter part of last year, and these also have enjoyed good health; no deaths. The estate is attended by Dr. Sprott. Dr. Sprott.—At Calder and Calder Ridge estates there has not been a single death among the Portuguese, though they have resided upon these properties upwards of twelve months, a fact which, of itself, is sufficient to prove that these two properties are admirably adapted for this class of labourers, many of whom have been sick, hut in most cases only from slight ailments which yielded readily to medical treatment.

Calder Ridge. Honourable James Porter.—A considerable number of Portuguese immigrants were placed upon this estate about 18 months ago ; there has been little or no sickness among them, and no deaths have occurred. There are now upwards of 40 Portuguese on this property, and all well. Argyle Estate. Honourable James Porter.—A considerable number of Portuguese immigrants were placed upon this estate about 18 months ago ; they have continued healthy ; one death occurred during the first twelve months. Several others have been placed upon the property since, among whom one death has occurred from disease, under which the party was labouring when she arrived—dysentery. The number on the estate at present is about 55. The native population are generally healthy. The houses for the Portuguese are in a different location from the negroes, and preferably situated for immigrants, as fever sometimes makes its appearance. Dr. Sprott.—On Argyle estate there have been many cases of fever, fortunately not of a destructive character. I consider this estate well adapted for Portuguese immigrants, especially when they are a little more acclimated. Alexander Ligertwood.—I am the manager of the above estate, and have been so since April 1846. During the rainy seasons the Portuguese have been subject to fever. The swamp which formerly existed upon the low lands near the sea has been drained, and is always kept clean. I have always enjoyed good health, and also the native labourers and overseers. There has been but one death since I went to the estate, an old woman, a Portuguese, sick when she came to the estate. Coubamarou Estate. Honourable James Porter.—The present situation of the negro houses at this estate are not favourably situated, but almost any other location on the property will be perfectly healthy. The present negro houses are situated too low, and the negroes are, in consequence, occasionally subject to fever. Dr. Sprott.—There are no Portuguese located, but I consider this a healthy location for them, provided the houses are placed in a different situation from the present negro villages. Upper Diamond Estate. Thomas Ponsonby.—I am the field superintendent of this estate, and have been so for about three years. Since I have lived here I have been in pretty good health, except the first year, when I was very ill with fever ; I was attacked about October, and a great many of the labourers were also sick—nearly the whole of them. The last two years the fever has not been so much, but the people have been sickly sometimes ; I think the sickness is occasioned by the swamp when the wind shifts to the southward ; at the time when the southerly winds blow, the negro houses are under the influence of the swamp. We have no Portuguese on the estate at present. The estate is quite healthy. Dr. Stackpole attends the estate. Mount Pleasant Estate. Honourable James Porter.—Upwards of 40 Portuguese immigrants have been located upon this estate for the last 12 months; they have enjoyed good health; two deaths have occurred, one a sickly child, not expected to live upon its arrival, the other from an accident in consequence of a piece of wood running into his foot, and the boy died from lock-jaw. Dr. Sprott.—Mount Pleasant has been very healthy, I should say as much so as any estate that I attend. The returns will show that two deaths have occurred on this property, consisting of a young infant, and a boy who died from traumatic tetanus. The immigrants upon this estate have, on the whole, enjoyed excellent health. 0.32. 3 M 4

456 Appendix, No. 1. Emigration. ST. VINCENT. End. 3, in No. 4.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE Escape Estate.

William Bowchett, Esq.—I am the manager of this estate, and have been so for 11 months; I consider the estate generally healthy. The black people on the estate enjoy good health, also the immigrants from Madeira, of which latter we have now located about (JO ; we have lost but two of them since they were first put upon the property, one a very old man, the other a young man who died very suddenly. We have no fever now, and only the ordinary fever of the country at any time. Dr. Stackpole has recently attended the estate, but Dr. Sprott, also Dr. Baillie, were formerly attending this property. Dr. Baillie.—\ attended Escape estate, and I consider this a good location for Portuguese labourers. When I attended this property, there were many cases of ulcers among the people, which, from inattention to the sores in the beginning, and not reporting in time, so as to have proper treatment, became obstinate cases. I ceased to attend the estate in February last. Evesham Vale Estate. G. J. Evelyn, Esq.— I am the manager of this estate, and have been so for the past two years. We have not any Portuguese immigrants. During the time I have lived upon this estate, myself and family have enjoyed excellent health. The ordinary sickness, such as rheumatism, sometimes occurs to the labourers, but generally they are very healthy, and no cases of fever have occurred. I consider the Marriaqua Valley, in which this estate is situate, especially adapted for the location of immigrants, whether Portuguese or European, as the climate is more temperate than upon the coast. Dr. Huggins.—I concur in the opinion and remarks of Mr. Evelyn. Cane Garden Estate. Poison M'Kenzie, Esq.—I am the manager of Cane Garden, and have been so for seven years past. I consider it a very healthy situation. I have eight Portuguese labourers ; they have been upon the estate since July last, and have always been very healthy. Dr. Kennedy.—I attend the above estate, and have for some years past, and my opinion is, the estate is healthy, and a favourable situation for Portuguese or other immigrant labourers. There are at present a few of the former (I think so) on the property; they have enjoyed excellent health.

Camden Park Estate. John Whittal, Esq.—I am the attorney and manager of this estate, and have lived upon it for the past 10 years. Myself and family enjoy good health. The labouring population have also generally been healthy; but during the latter part of last year there was greater mortality among the Creoles than for the whole period of the past seven years. I can only attribute this to a remarkably wet season. The estate for the past three months has resumed its accustomed healthiness. So healthy has this estate always been considered, that during sickness from severe fevers among the troops stationed at Fort Charlotte, the troops have been removed under canvas, and located upon this property, from which measure they speedily have become healthy. I have Madeira labourers located upon the estate ; they have been placed on the Blanks in original. estate at four different periods; of the whole number I have lost , and of this number I attribute deaths to old age, persons unable to work , and deaths to fever, and children to improved treatment on the part of the mothers in several instances. I hose now on the estate are healthy, and working well, with two exceptions, one afflicted with disease of the heart, and one with an ulcerated leg. This last case was six months in the colonial hospital. Dr. Kennedy is the medical attendant. Dr. Kennedy.—I have attended Camden Park for a number of years, and am of opinion the locality of the estate is healthy ; two or three deaths have occurred since the arrival of the Portuguese, of whom there are upwards of 100 located ; the deaths have been very few, and these were cases of disease and debility when they arrived. Lance Joyeux Estate. James Craigen.—I am the manager of said estate, and have been so for the past two years and nine months ; during that period the estate has always been very healthy ; we have had but few cases of fever, and no mortality therefrom. Fourteen Madeira immigrants were sent to the estate in July last; they have all been healthy with the exception of one,a little boy of about eight years, who died from the improper manner in which his parents prepared his food. The father of this child was in the same state of health, and after the death of the boy I gave him under charge of the sick nurse, whom I desired to see the food properly prepared, and by restriction of diet in the course of a month he recovered, and has since been perfectly well. I consider the imperfect manner in which these people prepare their food a principal cause of illness amongst them ; they are, however, acquiring a better mode of preparing their food. Dr. Baillie.—I consider there can be no doubt but that Camden Park is a most healthy estate. Clare Valley Estate, Dr. Kennedy.—During the period which I have attended Clare Valley estate, which is some years, I have always deemed it healthy. There arc no Portuguese on tins estate.

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861

Cane Wood Estate.

Appendix, No. 1.

Thomas Cameron.—I am the manager of this estate, and have been so for nearly four years. The labourers on this estate are very healthy; we have seldom occasion for the doctor. There are no Portuguese located; I think these people would enjoy good health on this property. Dr. Kennedy.—I have attended above estate for some years; there are no Portuguese at present on the estate; I consider it a healthy situation for Portuguese immigrants.

Emigration. ST. VINCENT. Encl. 3, in No. 4.

Montrose Estate. Dr. Baillie.—I have attended Montrose estate for the past two years. The estate is perfectly healthy, and I consider it a most favourable locality for Portuguese. Richmond Hill Estate. Niven M'Kenzie, Esq.—I am receiver for this property (under the Court of Chancery). There are no Portuguese upon the estate. Dr. Kennedy.—I attend above estate, and consider it a desirable locality for immigrants ; none at present are on this property. Kingstown Park Estate. Niven M'Kenzie, Esq.—We have no Portuguese; but this is a healthy estate. Dr. Kennedy.—I am at present the medical attendant of Kingstown Park, and find it healthy, and deem it a desirable locality for immigrants. Dr. Baillie.—I confirm the above. Redemption Estate. Niven M'Kenzie, Esq.—This estate is perfectly healthy; there are not any Portuguese immigrants. Dr. Kennedy.—I have attended Redemption estate for a number of years, and consider the locality highly favourable for immigrants; none at present on this property. Liberty Lodge. Niven M'Kenzie, Esq.—This estate is perfectly healthy. No Portuguese upon it. Dr. Kennedy.—I have attended the above estate for some years, and I consider the situation healthy for immigrants. Carruth, in Marriaqua Valley (an Arrow-root Plantation). Honourable James Porter.—There have been five Portuguese immigrants upon this property for the last 12 months. No particular sickness and no deaths have occurred. I consider the situation particularly healthy, and extremely well adapted for the Portuguese immigrants.

Enclosure 4, in No. 4. Sir,

Enmore, Barbados, 29 May 1847. I HAVE to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of yesterday's date, forwarding me, at the request of his Excellency the Governor, a despatch from Sir John Campbell, with the reports of the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the salubrity of the places in the island of St. Vincent on which the Portuguese immigrants have been located, and requesting at the same time to know if any steps had been taken for the removal of those who were settled on Cane Grove Estate, where many of them have died from its unhealthful situation. I have perused these documents attentively, and indeed had previously heard them read at a meeting of the Privy Council in St. Vincent. The term of agreement (12 months) of those located on Cane Grove having expired, there are now but few remaining on that property, and these, from having become climatised, are enjoying good health ; the necessary steps will however be taken to prevent any others, on their arrival in the island, being sent there, in accordance with one of the clauses in our Immigration Act. I return the documents, and have the honour to remain, Yours, &c. (signed) John Le Gall. Robert Kay, Esq. (True Copy.) Robert Kay, Private Secretary.

Encl. 4, in No. 4.

— No. 5. — COPY

Sib

of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Lieutenant-Colonel Reid. No. 5.

Downing-street, 19 August 1847. Earl Grey to GoI HAVE to acknowledge the receipt of your despatches of the 24th and 29th of May, vernor Lieut.-Col. Nos. 22 and 25, transmitting the reports of Commissioners appointed to inquire into the Reid. salubrity of all the estates in St. Vincent, with a view of ascertaining those on which it would be proper to permit the location of immigrants from Madeira during their contract. 0.32. 3 N I am

458

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Appendix, No. 1.

I am happy to find from these documents, that a large majority of the estates are regarded as salubrious, and that there is only one on which any considerable mortality has occurred; I also observe, that on several of those designated of a more doubtful character, places ot the labourers have been removed to more elevated spots, a precaution ST. VINCENT. the dwelling which has been attended with the best results. Upon the whole the accounts are satisfactory, and I have to request that you will convey No. 5. to Sir John Campbell my approval of his proceedings in this matter, and especially of the Earl Grey to Go- precaution of not allowing any of the immigrants, for whom bounty is paid, to engage themvernor Lieut.-Col. selves during their first contracts on estates decidedly unhealthy. Reid. I have, &c. (signed) Grey. Emigration.

I No. 6. Governor Lieut.Col. Reid to Earl Grey.

— No. 6. — (No. 31.) COPY of a DESPATCH from Governor Lieutenant-Colonel Reid to Earl Grey.

Government House, Barbados, 10 July 1847. My Lord, (Received 20 August 1847.) WITH reference to your Lordship's despatches, Nos. 12 and 17, dated 23 April and 1 May, remarking on the mortality amongst the immigrants from Madeira, I have the st.Vincent, No. 76. honour to enclose copy of a despatch from Sir John Campbell, in which he states that he will bring under the notice of the Legislature of St. Vincent your Lordship's wish that Por5 July 1847. tuguese immigrants should only be brought into that island during certain months in the year. I have, Sec. (signed) William Reid, Governor.

Enclosure in No. 6. (No. Encl. in No. 6.

76.)

Sir, Government House, St. Vincent, 5 July 1847. I HAVE the honour to acknowledge your Excellency's despatch, No. 65, 23 May 1847, enclosing a despatch from the Secretary of State, No. 17, 1 May 1847, and also a copy of a letter addressed to James Stephen, Esq., from the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners, of date 23 April 1847, all on the subject of mortality among the immigrants. In my despatch, No. 61, 20 May 1847, to which I refer in reply, I enclosed reports on the health of the people upon every estate in this island, and stated that the mortality among the Portuguese was upon the whole less than might have been expected. There has as yet been no cause to alter my opinion so expressed. At the same time, it is most desirable to reduce the sickness and mortality to the lowest possible limit, and with that view, the instruction that immigrants be received only during certain months of the year, I shall bring under the notice of the Legislature at their first meeting. This is the only course which I am authorized by law to take, but have little doubt that such a limitation will be adopted. The season during which I would propose that immigration should cease, is from June to October inclusive. I have, See. (signed) John Campbell, Lieutenant-Governor. His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief, Barbadoes. (True Copy.) Robert Kay, Private Secretary.

— No. (No. COPY

7. —

36.)

of a DESPATCH from Governor Lieutenant-Colonel Reid to Earl Grey.

Barbadoes, 8 September 1847. (Received 8 October 1847.) I RETURNED yesterday from St. Vincent, having passed a week there, and I am happy to Earl Grey to Governor Lieut.-Col. be able to state that I received very favourable reports relative to the Portuguese immigrants. Reid. From what I heard, I am led to believe that they are contented and in a healthy condition. Their numbers in St. Vincent are now about 2,000, and I lose no time in making this short report, from the conviction I feel that the supply of labourers is proving a great benefit to that island. I have, See. William Reid, Governor. (signed) No. 7.

My Lord,

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459

Appendix, No. 1.

GRENADA.

Emigration.

GRENADA.

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; No. 1. â&#x20AC;&#x201D; (No. 26.) COPY of a DESPATCH from Governor Lieutenant-Colonel Reid to Earl Grey. Barbadoes, 23 August 1847. My Lord, (Received 22 September 1847.) I HAVE the honour herewith to transmit to your Lordship a copy of a despatch from Mr. Hamilton, transmitting a joint memorial from the Council and Assembly of Grenada, asking to be allowed to share in the advantages of obtaining African immigrants. I have no hesitation in recommending this application to be granted. I have, &c. (signed) Wm. Reid, Governor.

No. 1. Governor Lieut.Col. Reid to Earl Grey.

Grenada, 74. 19 August 1847. Memorial. 15 15 July 1847.

Enclosure 1, in No. 1. (No. 74.)

Government House, Grenada, Encl. 19 August 1847. I HAVE the honour to forward to your Excellency, for transmission to the Secretary of State, a joint memorial of the Council and Assembly of Grenada, praying that this colony may be allowed to participate in the distribution of captured Africans, or such labourers as may be sent to the West Indies from Africa, under the sanction of Her Majesty's Government. The memorial states the readiness of the colonial government to bear a fair proportion of any reasonable and necessary expenses attending this measure, and sets forth the grounds on which such immigration is desired. In my Report, accompanying the Blue Book for the year 1846, I stated my opinion, that this island would be benefited by an increase of population, and invited the attention of Government to the expenditure authorized by the local authorities for the removal and location of a portion of the captured Africans, the sum of 5,0001, having been authorized to be expended in payment of the expenses which may be incurred in conveying them to Grenada, and for their support and maintenance there until they can be properly located to the satisfaction of the Government. The only emigrants who have been introduced into Grenada since the abolition of slavery were some Maltese, who were brought here in 1839, and who entirely failed to answer the expectations of the agriculturists, and recently, about 500 people from Madeira, whose arrival and condition have been reported to your Excellency. The sum of 3,968 l. is now applicable for immigration purposes, with an accruing revenue, which may be expected to yield 600 I. per quarter. The general agriculture is suffering from the deficiency of labour, and numerous inconveniences, arising from unsteady habits produced by that cause, and which no legislation can now reach, would be removed or be alleviated by an increase of population. The labouring population of this colony seem to enjoy a large share of temporal prosperity. The supply of provisions is abundant, with great facility of increase ; and I imagine no other place could be selected for emigrants, offering greater rewards for industrious employment, attended with present sufficiency. Considering, therefore, on these grounds, that the introduction of African labourers into Grenada would be beneficial to themselves and conducive to the general welfare of the colony, I beg leave to recommend the accompanying memorial to the favourable consideration of the Secretary of State. I have, &c. Ker B. Hamilton, (signed) Lieut.-Governor. His Excellency Colonel Reid, C.B. Governor-General, Barbadoes. (True Copy.) Robt. Kay, Private Secretary. Sir,

in No. 1.

Enclosure 2, in No. 1. To the Right Honourable the Earl Grey, Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies, &c. &c. &c. The humble and joint Memorial of the Board of Council and House of Assembly of the Island of Grenada and its Dependencies, Showeth, your memorialists have recently received a letter from Joseph Marryat, esquire, the agent for this colony, enclosing a communication from Mr. Hawes, addressed to him by your Lordship's directions, dated the 10th of May last, in reply to an application addressed to your Lordship, dated the 14th of the preceding month of April, containing a request that THAT

0.32.

3 N 2

this

Encl, 2, in No. 1.

460

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Appendix, No. v. this colony might be allowed to participate in the captured Africans, or such labourers as

might be sent to this country from the Kroo coast of Africa, by the steamer intended to be employed by Government in this service, wherein he alleges the impracticability of extending the advantages of that measure to Grenada. GRENADA. Your memorialists beg leave humbly to submit to your Lordship's notice and consideraEncl. 2, in No. 1. tion, that Grenada being the chief depot at which the Royal Mail Steam Packet Company's steamers coal, an equal, if not greater facility for the reception of a portion of such Africans can be afforded as at any of the ports of British Guiana or Trinidad. That Grenada, from its contiguity to Trinidad, and from the bounties formerly held out by that colony to all emigrants, and other causes has lost a large portion of its labourers by emigration to that island ; and your memorialists consider these circumstances as an additional reason for placing this island upon an equal footing with Trinidad in the boon which they now solicit. That since the Port of Saint George became the depot of the Royal Mail Steam Packet Company's steamers, this colony has lost many of its agricultural labourers, by being employed in the work of coaling, and considerable numbers of them have been and still are also employed on the extensive Crown works now in progress at the garrison; such labourers being withdrawn from the cultivation of the land, by the inducement of a much higher rate of wages than the proprietors of plantations can afford to bear, though this colony pays its labourers on a considerably higher rate of wages than the neighbouring islands of Tobago and St. Vincent; all which circumstances have caused the recent abandonment of cultivation by the proprietors of no less than 11 out of 23 sugar estates in the parish of St. George, the parish in which the capital town is situated. That your memorialists by no means complain of our labourers leaving the estates on which they were formerly located and provided for, as they readily admit their right (and but a natural consequence) to carry their labour to the best market; your memorialists submit these facts merely to show under what peculiar disadvantages this island in particular has been and is suffering. That the Legislature of Grenada having provided funds for immigration purposes, this colony is in a condition to bear its fair proportion of any reasonable and necessary expenses attending so desirable an object. Your memorialists, therefore, confidently rely on the zeal and interest manifested by your Lordship at all times to promote the general welfare of the West Indian colonies; and they trust that your Lordship will be pleased to reconsider the subject of their application, and to grant to this colony the important aid which has been and is now earnestly solicited, or such other assistance in the premises as in your Lordship's wisdom and justice you may deem meet. And your memorialists, as in duty bound, will ever pray. (signed) Win. Darnell Davis, St. George's, Grenada, ' President of the Council. 15 July 1847. Roll. Stronach, Speaker of the House of Assembly. Emigration.

No. 2. Earl Grey to Governor Lieut.-Col Reid.

No. 3. Governor Lieut. Col. Reid to Earl Grey.

No. 88, 4 Oct. 1847.

— No. 2. — (No. 37.) COPY of a DESPATCH from Earl Grey to Governor Lieutenant-Colonel Reid. Sib Downing-street, 6 November 1847. I HAVE received your despatches, Grenada, Nos. 25 and 26 of the 23d August, the former accompanied by a despatch from the Lieutenant-governor of Grenada, enclosing an abstract from the reports of the stipendiary magistrates on the present state of the Madeira emigrants, and the latter transmitting a memorial received through Lieutenant-governor Hamilton from the Council and Assembly of Grenada, praying to be allowed to share in the advantages granted to British Guiana and Trinidad, of obtaining African immigrants. With reference to the first despatch, as some of the sickness under which many of the emigrants from Madeira appear to have been suffering is attributed to their having arrived at the most sickly season of the year, I request that you will report to me what months constitute the season most unfavourable to health in Grenada. In reply to the memorial from the Council and Assembly of Grenada, you will desire the Lieutenant-governor to inform them, that there is no intention of placing that island on a less favourable footing than the other West Indian colonies in respect to African immigration. But the use of a Government steamer, to ascertain if emigrants could be procured from the Kroo coast, is a measure which could obviously be tried for only one or two colonies at a time. And on the other hand, those colonies in which it is not tried will equally participate in the result of the experiment, if it succeed, without having shared the previous expense. I have, &c. Grey. (signed) — No. 3.— (No. 40.) COPY of a DESPATCH from Governor Lieutenant-Colonel Reid to Earl Grey. Barbadoes, 12 October 1847. My Lord, (Received 20 November 1847.) I HAVE the honour to transmit to your Lordship a despatch from the Lieutenant-governor of Grenada, by which it will be seen that he intends to propose to the Legislature, that power

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461

power shall be given to withhold the bounty on immigrants from Madeira, in vessels clearing from that port from April to September inclusive. Appended to Mr. Hamilton's despatch will be found reports from magistrates and medical practitioners in the island. These reports having been submitted by the Lieutenant-governor to three military medical officers, their opinion will be found at the end, and it is a document deserving of attention. I have reason to think, from what I heard at St. Vincent as well as Grenada, that the opinion of the military medical officers is correct, viz. that the number of deaths soon after the arrival of the Portuguese from Madeira is, in some degree, owing to their state of starvation and disease on embarking. I have, &c. Wm. Reid, Governor. (signed)

865

Appendix, No. 1. GRENADA. No. 3. Governor Lieut.Col. Reid to Earl Grey.

8 Enclosures.

Enclosure 1, in No. 3. (No. 88.) Government House, Grenada, 4 October 1847. I HAVE the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your Excellency's despatch, No. 90, of Encl. 1, in No. 3. the 17th August 1847, recommending steps to be taken to prevent bounty being paid on immigration from Madeira during the unhealthy season. Having in my despatch to your Excellency, No. 73, of 17th August, transmitted informa- Lieut.-Governor tion respecting the condition of the Portuguese immigrants, I have now the honour to state, Hamilton to Mr. that with a view to perfecting that information, ana carrying out the investigation entered Romney, 1 Sept. upon by the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners, I addressed the medical gentle- 1847. men in charge of the Portuguese immigrants in this island, by means of a letter to Mr. Special Justice Romney, which was circulated between the stipendiary magistrates of the With reports of districts in which such immigrants are located, and I enclose duplicate reports of those Messrs. Romney, medical gentlemen, with the observations thereon of the army medical officers in the colony, Richard, Aquart, and Mr. Stephenson, another surgeon and old inhabitant. and Reitb, Encl. With reference to the further information now transmitted, it would seem desirable to No. 1. withhold the bounty on emigrants from Madeira in vessels clearing from that port from April to September inclusive, and I shall bring the subject under the consideration of the Assembly Lieut.-Governor in order that measures may be adopted to prevent the payment of bounty on Portuguese Hamilton to Staffemigrants arriving in the unhealthy season. surgeon Connell, I have, &c. &c. 24 Sept., and reply 29 Sept. 1847, (signed) Ker B. Hamilton, Lieut.-Governor. Encl. No. 2. His Excellency Colonel Reid, c.n. Governor-General, Barbadoes. (True copy.) Robert Kay, Private Secretary. Sir,

Enclosure 2, in No. 3. Sir,

Government House, Grenada, 1 September 1847. I HAVE to request your attention more particularly to the subject of the mortality which Encl. 2, in No. 3. has occurred among the Portuguese immigrants. Accounts have been transmitted to the Secretary of State, showing a great mortality among the same description of immigrants in British Guiana, Trinidad and St. Vincent; the proportion of deaths in the first-mentioned colony having been at the rate of 12 1/2 per cent, per annum. Emigration from Madeira to those colonies has been, therefore, or will be restricted to certain months; and as regards Trinidad it is reported that the months during which arrivals can be safely permitted are from November to March inclusive. I request you will make as lull and complete a report as you can respecting the causes and rate of mortality among the emigrants from Madeira since the first importation of those people, and state what are the most favourable months for their arrival in this colony, and whether it would be advisable, on principles of humanity, to restrict their immigration to such months; and during what months such immigration should, on those grounds, be prohibited. You will also convey to me your opinion whether these people are likely to thrive and become advantageously settled in this colony. I have, &c. J. F. Romney, Esq., S. J. P. (signed) Ker B. Hamilton, Lieut.-Governor.

Enclosure 3, in No. 3. Sir,

St. Patrick's, 7 September 1847. the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your Excellency's communication of the Encl. 3, in No. 3. 1st September on the subject of'the mortality which has occurred among the Portuguese immigrants since their first importation. I have been unavoidably late in furnishing your Excellency with that full and perfect account which it is my duty as well as anxious desire to give you. The accompanying letter from Dr. Richard, received last night, affords valuable information. His opinions coincide with those of the other medical gentlemen who have had the 0.32. 3 N 3 charge I HAVE

462 Appendix, No. 1.

Emigration. GRENADA. Encl. 3, in No. 3.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

charge of the Portuguese. My own observations, in addition, I should hope will satisfactorily answer all questions respecting those people. Should my report not be in such form as your Excellency would desire, and there be time to make the alteration, I shall take pleasure in meeting your Excellency's wishes and obeying your commands. I have, &c. His Excellency Ker B. Hamilton, (signed) James F. Romney, Surgeon. Lieut.-Governor. REPORT

respecting the Causes and Rate of Mortality among the Emigrants from Madeira.

On or about the 1st June 1846 the Ship St. Vincent, of the Port of Glasgow, landed in this island a certain number of Portuguese emigrants, of which 79 were located on estates in the parish of St. Patrick, viz.:— On Mount Rose - 30 Of these died 8 „ Plaisance - 15 „ 1 „ Mount Rodney 5 „ 1 60

„

Per the ship Leguan, from the same, in April 1847, The number on Plaisance -15,. Observatory -14 -

10 Total.

Died—none. „ „

29 50 79 Emigrants, and 10 deaths; giving a per centage of nearly 12 3/4 per annum. Of this total number, six were landed diseased : four to Mount Rose, one to Plaisance, and one to Mount Rodney. These died very shortly afterwards. On Mount Rose four others died within six months after their arrival, from the change of climate, or possibly from their own imprudence. The year 1846 is said to have been rather productive of fever and dysentery, and not less among the Portuguese than the native and African labourers, eight of whom are said to have died in that year on Mount Rose. The very young, and such as were well advanced in years, were the subjects for disease. It is proper to state that the Portuguese were driven by famine and its consequences from their native country to another, perhaps, not less congenial to them, and abounding in the necessaries of life. They may, if industrious and frugal, become independent in course of time, as the native labourers are. They make a valuable addition to the peasantry, and from every appearance are happy and contented, not regretting their removal; and it would be both wise and humane to give them every encouragement and afford them every care and attention. The most eligible period of the year for their introduction into the island would be from the middle of November to that of May, and not in any other month. They would thus have a proper seasoning before the heavy rains and sultry weather commenced. The months usually considered most unhealthy are July, August, September and October; but November, December, and January are now and then productive of fevers and some other disorders. I would likewise recommend a choice of locality, for some estates are very healthy, whilst others are sure to occasion fever. (signed) James F. Romney, Surgeon, Stipendiary Magistrate, Parish of St. Patrick, Grenada.

Enclosure Encl. 4, in No. 3.

4, in

No.

Sir,

St. Patrick's, 7 September J 847. I HAVE considered, as well as the shortness of the notice permitted, the queries in the letter of His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor, regarding the immigrants into this colony from Madeira, and am of opinion that many of the deaths arose from disease brought along with them, and that after the first year, when their seasoning may be supposed over, the survivors will enjoy as good health as previously to their emigration, and will become advantageously settled in the colony. But I would recommend that any future arrivals be prohibited during the months of July, August, September and October. The habits of these people, and their peculiarities of constitution being now better known, their seasoning will in future be less dangerous. I am, &c. J. F. Romney, Esq., S.J. P. (signed) Alexander Richard, Surgeon. P. S.—I may add, that latterly they have been fleeing from famine and concomitant disease.

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Enclosure 5, in No. 3.

867

Appendix, No. 1.

Mon Plaisir Estate, Parish of St. John, Grenada, Emigration. Sir, 5 September 1847. I HAVE the honour to state, for the information of his Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor, GRENADA. in pursuance of a letter I received from Stipendiary Justice Hutcheson, of the 4th instant, that the Portuguese that have come under my Charge, as a medical practitioner in the parish of St. John, are those located on Palmiste estate. Twenty-five of them were indented in the Encl. 5, in No. 3. beginning of July last, and 17 others, of a new importation, in the beginning of August. In the first set several were landed sickly, particularly two infants, one "Francesca," had an extensive scald on the head, which was then a large unhealthy ulcer, extending nearly from ear to ear, and presenting the denuded scull in many places ; the other "Amelia," was a very reduced and weak infant, born at the seventh month of pregnancy. Particular care was taken of both cases, but they ultimately diedâ&#x20AC;&#x201D;" Francesca "from constitutional irritation, pain and debility ; " Amelia " by diarrhoea. Several of the grown persons have had slight attacks of dysentery, but it was neither so general or severe on them as I had expected it would have been at this particular season of the year; a few cases of lumbago and pain in the shoulders should hardly be noticed, occasioned by handling the hoe, and cured by a day's rest. The 17 others, of a subsequent importation, were far from looking so well as the first ones; many of them had marks of impaired health ; among them, a boy had dysentery and incipient dropsy; though a very capricious appetite, he has had several relapses. They have been more subject to bowel complaints than the first ones, though not more severe in the attacks. The general appearance of all is much improved since their residence here, even in this short time; and it is more striking in regard to the children, and I think they will still improve. As for the time of the year the most favourable for their introduction into this island, I would certainly say it was from the beginning of December to the end of March ; the ground provisions at that time of the year are of a better quality; there is not that great abundance of fruit, upon which they indulge immoderately, and the weather is dryer, cooler and more settled, and I am of opinion that their general health would be better if they arrived during those months. I am, &c. John G. Garraway, Esq. (signed) Modest Aquart, M. D. Private Secretary. Enclosure 6, in No. 3. Sir, Grenada, 17 September 1847. IN reply to his Excellency's communication relative to the Portuguese immigrants located Encl. 6, in No. 3. in St Andrew's parish, I subjoin the following remarks:â&#x20AC;&#x201D; Istly. As regards those first imported in the ship St. Vincent, 165, in June 1846, many of the deaths arose from disease under which they laboured on their arrival. An epidemic bilious fever likewise prevailed at that time among the resident Europeans, who suffered much therefrom, and which carried off many of the immigrants. 2dly. Several were located on unhealthy situations; viz. the Conferences and Tivoli estates. I am nappy to add, that the houses on these estates have been changed, much to the benefit of their health, and that no death has occurred amongst them this year. 3dly. Those imported per Leguan, 42, in April 1847, were distributed as follows 15 on Plaisance Estate, parish of St. Patrick. 14 on Observatory ditto, ditto. 13 on Bellevue ditto, parish of St. David. No deaths has yet occurred amongst these, 4thly. By the Hallyards, in July this year, 205 arrived ; of these are located on Carrie re estate 24â&#x20AC;&#x201D;no casualties as yet, and in good health now; nine on Tivoli estate still remain healthy; nine on Conferences, one woman died of venereal disease, and one man of dropsy and dysentery, under which he laboured on his arrival. These are all located in St. Andrew's parish. 5thly. The months of July, August, September and October are more sultry and rainy than the others, and may forbid the propriety of locating them on unhealthy situations in those months. But to assure the health, comfort and usefulness of the Portuguese immigrants, none of them should be located but where the Lieutenant-governor is assured of the salubrity of the situation. 6thly. As my practice extends to all the Portuguese in St. Patrick's parish likewise, and leads me to be acquainted with their habits as well as those on my own estate of Plaisance, I may safely affirm that they will thrive and become advantageously settled in the colony. 7thly. Of the last arrival by the Reo d'Ouro, 70 of whom were settled in St, Patrick's parish, viz,: Mount William, Snell Hall, and Montreuil estates, all healthy situations, I regret to state that from the diseased state in which they were landed, and from frequent opportunities of observing their habits, in addition being all nearly of detached individuals, I do not think they are so likely to become settled in the colony and prove beneficial. I have, &c. (signed) Robert Rath.

0.32.

3N4

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

464 Appendix, No. 1.

Enclosure 7, in No. 3.

Emigration. GRENADA. Encl. 7, in No. 3.

Government House, Grenada, 24 September 1847.

Gentlemen,

THE subject of emigration from Madeira having necessarily engaged the attention of Government, and the statistics furnished by different colonies, showing a rate of mortality which necessitates the adoption of rules for regulating this emigration, I am desirous of ascertaining the opinion of the medical officers in this colony respecting the months during which such emigration should be permitted. I submit, for your consideration, a despatch from Earl Grey to Governor Reid, dated 1st May last, with a report from the Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners to Mr. Secretary Stephen, dated 23 April: also abstract of information respecting Portuguese immigrants introduced into this colony from Madeira, from June 1846 to June 1847, and copy of a letter to Mr. Special Justice Romney, dated 1st September, with information thereon furnished by the medical gentlemen attending the Portuguese in this colony. It occurs to me, that no bounty should be allowed in respect of emigrants leaving Madeira between April and September inclusively; but I should wish to receive your opinion in respect of the months during which it is desirable that such emigration should be discouraged. I also request your attention to the facts and statements contained in the documents herewith submitted for your consideration, and invite such observations as your experience may suggest on this subject.

(signed)

Ker B. Hamilton, Lieutenant-Governor.

James Connell, Esq., P. M. O. The Hon, W, Stephenson. John Browne, Esq. H. S. Sanders, Esq., Assist. Surg. 3d W. I. Regt.

Enclosure 8, in No. 3. Sir, Medical Office, Grenada, 29 September 1847. W E. have the honour to acknowledge your letter of 24th instant, requesting our opinions Encl. 8, in No. 3. as to what months emigration from Madeira to this island should be permitted ; and calling our attention to the documents therewith transmitted for consideration, with a view to our furnishing such observations as our experience in the matter might suggest. Having carefully considered the subject, and also the statements contained in the documents alluded to, it appears to us, that according to the best official authority extantâ&#x20AC;&#x201D; " Satistical Report, &c. for the West Indies, prepared from the records of the Army Medical Department, and War-office Returns, 1838," as regards Grenada, the influence of the seasons in producing sickness and mortality is by no means very strikingly marked, either in the admissions (into hospitals), or deaths, except in the month of September; that" sickness has principally prevailed from April to September, and the greatest mortality from August to November." This is the record of British troops taken as an average of 20 years, and seems to us to be the only authentic source from which to draw inferences in this matter, because the immigrants from Madeira have been of too short standing in the island, and too few in number to enable us to draw any useful conclusions, grounded upon statistics connected with them in Grenada. As it is not clear to us there are any records to show that one part of the year is essentially more unhealthy than another (for malignant endemics have raged here as well in those months which are generally termed healthy, as in the others), we concur in the view taken by Mr. Aquart in his report of the 5th instant to your Excellency, viz., that " from the beginning of December to the end of March the ground-provisions are of better quality; there is not that great abundance of fruit upon which the Portuguese indulge immoderately, and the weather is dryer, cooler and more settled and these considerations we believe of importance in the selection of the months most proper for immigration. We also concur in the report of Dr. Reith to your Excellency, dated 17th instant, where it is .stated that " July, August, September and October are more sultry and rainv than the other mouths," and these months should not therefore be selected for arrivals from Madeira. These being facts ascertained, carry, in our opinion, more weight towards throwing light as respects the best months for immigration into Grenada, than the supposed influence of particular months on sickness and mortality ; and we would therefore submit, that all things considered, from the middle of November to the middle of March would be preferable, on experiments, for the arrival of the Madeira emigrants at this island. From actual experience, as connected with the individuals under consideration, we can offer no observations; but we submit the following for your Excellency's consideration, drawn from the facts and statements contained in the documents accompanying your Excellency's letter to us on the subject.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

465

It does not clearly appear whether the whole of the arrivals in Grenada from June 1846 to June 1847, is contained in the Table compiled by Mr. Romney; but in the absence of such information, and taking that Table as a guide so far as it goes, the following seem the main points deducible therefrom. That in certain parishes therein named, the arrivals between the 1st June 1846, and the ----- 195 31st May 1847, were Of these died ----------40 Remaining on 31st May

155

This would give a mortality, supposing the entire number to have been one year in the island, of nearly 20 per cent, per annum; but, as they were not all for a year in Grenada, the calculation of mortality would exceed 20. But either would be a very incorrect calculation, where the question is not how many immigrants died in the year in Grenada, but how many died in consequence of immigration into Grenada? For, looking into the several Reports furnished by the medical gentlemen to your Excellency, it is evident a great proportion of those deaths occurred in consequence of disease brought from Madeira. The Report of Mr. Romney from St Patrick's, shows that of 10 who died there, six landed diseased, and the fact that these six died " very shortly " after they arrived, tends, in our opinion, to exonerate the climate of Grenada from the onus of deaths in these particular cases; and in fact the 10 deaths enumerated should, as regards the real question, be called four. In the Report of Mr. Richard from St. Patrick's it is stated that " many of the deaths arose from disease brought along with them." Whether Mr. Richard' alludes to the foregoing 10 deaths, or to others, there is nothing in his report to show ; but it is nevertheless clear, that to whatever deaths he alludes, they cannot be attributed to the climate of Grenada. In Mr. Aquart's Report from St. John's, it appears that in 42 arrivals, the first set of 25 came in July; and he says, "Several landed sickly, particularly two infants," which two infants died; and these deaths cannot be laid to the account of Grenada, nor does there appear anything in Mr. Aquart's Report to show that amongst the 42 any further deaths took place. Mr. Reith from St. Andrew's informs us that " many deaths arose from disease under which they laboured on arrival," and that " some were located in unhealthy situations." These people landed in June 1846, 165 in number; and there was a death from dropsy, which disease the individual laboured under on arrival; there were two deaths from parturition, and these three cannot be considered as caused by the climate. Of the total deaths, 19 occurred in children, " most of them diseased on arrival; six of them from hooping-cough, which they brought to Grenada with them, and which is a disease little seen in Grenada; the majority, if not the whole of those 19 deaths, should be thrown out of the calculation of mortality caused by immigration into Grenada. If data existed to show with accuracy what deaths occurred from disease brought into this island, and from accidents after arrival, on the one hand, and what took place from disease originating in healthy subjects after they landed, on the other, we are of opinion the mortality amongst the Portuguese immigrants from Madeira, in consequence of removal to Grenada, would assume a materially diminished aspect, to what it does, counting the mortality as a whole ; and, without the distinction, which alone can give the deaths, bond fide caused by immigration either to Grenada or any other colony. It occurs to us to add, that the immigrants in question landed for the most part at the commencement of what is considered the sickly season ; and that they came in a particularly unhealthy year; the latter adding not a little to the disadvantage of the last year's arrivals. And finally, we beg to state, that taking a review of all things connected with this subject, it is our conviction if those people were brought into this island in good health, and then well lodged, moderately and regularly fed, had a sufficient change,of clothing to meet the exigencies of wet weather, with prompt, and efficient medical attendance when sick, they would thrive fully as well in the island of Grenada as in that of Madeira; and we would submit to your Excellency's consideration, whether it would not be productive of much good in many ways, were the bounty in future paid for such immigrants only as passed a careful health-inspection on landing in this island. We have, &c. (signed) James Council, Staff Surgeon, (Second Class) P. M.O. (signed)

William Stephenson, Surgeon. Henry Shearly Sanders, Assistant Surgeon, 3d W. I. Regiment.

His Excellency Lieut.-Governor Hamilton, Grenada.

0.32.

3 O

Appendix,

869 Appendix, No.

Emigration. GRENADA.

Encl. 8, in No. 3.

466

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

Appendix, No. 2.

COPY OF A PETITION FROM LONDON MERCHANTS.

Appendix, No. 2.

(Referred to at Q. 5524; 2 March 1648.)

following is a Copy of a PETITION which has been addressed to Her Majesty's Government by some of the most eminent houses in London, praying that Cane Juice may be admitted at a fixed duty.

THE

To the Right Honourable the Earl of Clarendon, &c., &c., &c., President of the Board of Trade.

Petition of West India Merchants, &c

THE MEMORIAL of the undersigned West India proprietors, merchants, and importers, respectfully showeth,â&#x20AC;&#x201D;

That your memorialists consider it highly important, that every possible impediment and restriction affecting the importation of concentrated cane juice front our colonial possessions, should forthwith be removed. That were sufficient encouragement afforded, the raw, or unmanufactured article referred to, might be imported largely into this country, and the following results undoubtedly obtained:â&#x20AC;&#x201D; 1. A very considerable saving of labour in the colonies would be effected. 2. The loss that, at present, takes place by the wastage and drainage of the produce in the colonies, and during its transit home, would be avoided. 3. An improved description of sugar, as well as an increased quantity, (the process of manufacture being perfected in this country), would be imported, and the revenue thereby increased. That the preceding advantages combined, might enable the West India planter, notwithstanding the recent alterations in the sugar duties, to compete successfully with the foreign sugar growers. That the difficulties, uncertainties, and delays, which have hitherto attended the importation of concentrated cane juice, up to the present time, have been most injurious to every interest concerned; there being no fixed duty on the article, each shipment has been subjected to analysis, and occasionally referred to one, two, or more chemists or refiners, before a duty can be fixed. That, in support of this statement, your memorialists would respectfully refer to an importation of five puncheons of concentrated cane juice per " Lucy," from Antigua; warehoused by Messrs. T. Daniel & Co., as far back as the 10th of July 1846, and upon which, up to the present time, the duty has not been fixed, consequently, delivery cannot be obtained, to the great inconvenience and detriment of the importers, as well as actual loss to the revenue. That, in order to obviate the delay, loss, and inconvenience, that will otherwise attend the future importations of concentrated cane juice, as well as to afford planters the required encouragement for successfully meeting the competition they have been compelled to encounter, your memorialists respectfully urge, that Her Majesty's Government will cause steps to be taken to fix a permanent duty upon the article of concentrated cane juice, and, with a view that this application may be the more readily granted, your memorialists would even suggest, rather than suffer from a continuance of the present unsatisfactory arrangements, that Her Majesty's Government should fix a maximum rate of duty, say the highest rate that the article can equitably bear, supposing that the concentrated cane juice be boiled to the striking point, consequently containing, with the exception of a small proportion of unevaporated water, nothing but sugar and molasses, which, in Demerara, is estimated at about half of each, and that upon payment of such fixed duty, all shipments may, at once, be cleared upon importation. I hat., in order to terminate, if possible, the many vexatious difficulties that have hitherto attended the non-adjustment of this protracted question, your memorialists would further venture to state, that the revenue cannot fail to be increased, either by the adoption of the suggestions herein respectfully offered for the consideration of Her Majesty's Government, or by charging the sugar duty on one-half, and the molasses duty on the other moiety of all

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

467

871

all future importations of concentrated cane juice; an arrangement that your memorialists Appendix, No. 2. consider strictly equitable, and in accordance with the results arrived at by the Demerara planters, whicn your memorialists have already alluded to. Petition of West India Merchants, May it, therefore, please your Lordship to take this very important subject into your & c. Lordship's immediate consideration, and to give such directions thereon as to your Lordship may seem most advisable. London,

October

1846.

(Signed) Thos. Daniel Sf Co. Hibbert & Co. Cavan, Brothers & Co. Davidsons Sf Co. Alex, and Geo. Milne & Co. Cottam, Morton Sf Co. J. Liggins Sf Co. John Kingston Sf Co. John Constable. Boddington & Co. Baillie, Kerr & Co. Jonathan Hopkinson. Bosanquet & Naghten. W. A. Parker & Co. Rainey, Bruce Sf Co. Timperon Sf Dobinson.

J. W. Chapman. Reid, Irving Sf Co. Josh. Marry at Sf Sons. Grant & Kemshead. Anderson & Smith. Allien,, Kinnear Sf Co. A. Denoon & Co. Block Sf Grey. Cornfoot & Elmslie. Thos. and Wm. King. Langford Lovell Hodge. John H. Noding. Hawthorn & Shedden. Arc/id. Paull & Co. Chas. Richardson. Cruikshank, Melville Si Co.

Appendix, No. 3. Appendix, No. 3. A RETURN of the Quantity of SUGAR Imported by the East India Company in each of the last Sugar imported by Ten Years in which the East India Company imported Sugar on its own Account; also, an the East India Account of the COST of these SUGARS, in each Year, free on Board, in the Bengal Presidency, Company. distinguishing the Value paid for the Sugars, and the Charges on Transit and Shipment (converted into Sterling at 2s. per Sicca Rupee, the rate at present made use of in the Company's Accounts).

Cost of the Sugar at the Factory (Benares). Quantity Imported.

Value Paid for the Sugars.

Cwts.

£.

Packing Charges and Charge of Transportation to the Presidency.

£.'

Commission and Charge of Factory Establishment.

£.

1824-26

39,123

34,135

3,543

2,560

1825-26

47,367

45,063

3,859

3,140

1826-27

61,910

57,877

5,762

3,536

1827-28

109,858

101,544

8,717

6,656

1828-29

118,283

123,986

6,448

8,341

1829-30

109,941

119,831

6,262

7,797

1830-31

108,935

110,598

7,031

7,758

1831-32

77,797

70,120

5,159

5,975

1832-33

67,720

52,797

7,024

3,224

1833-34

71,196

53,147

4,435

3,056

Average per Annum

81,213

76,910

5,824

5,204

1 s. 5 2/10 d. d.

Is. 3 4/10 d.d.

Average per Cwt. -

0.32.

18s. 11 -fad.

3 0 2

(continued)

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

468

Total Cost of the Sugars at the Presidency of Bengal, including Charges of Establishment.

Charges at the Presidency.

Appendix, No. 3. Sugar imported by the East India Company.

Custom Duty.

Re-packing and Shipping Charges.

Per-centages put upon the Sugars to cover Charges of Establishment.

Average per Cwt.

£.

1824-25

1,067

503

1,452

43,260

2 1 3/10

1825-26

1,292

776

1,804

55,934

71,017

2 11A

£.

£. s.

7 4/10

1826-27

1,688

1,025

1,129

1827-28

2,996

1,691

1,972

123,576

1828-29

3,226

1,513

2,371

145,885

1829-30

2,999

1,409

3,182

141,480

8 9/10

1830-31

2,971

1,406

4,364

134,128

7 5/10

1831-32

2,122

1,011

2,793

87,180

4 9/10

1832-33

1,847

921

1,480

67,293

- 19 10 5/10

1833-34

1,942

920

1,477

64,977

- 18

Average per Annum

2,215

1,118

2,202

93,473

AN ACCOUNT

of the

3 3/10 d. d.

6 5/10 d.

Average per Cwt. -

AVERAGE PRICE

6 5/10

—

-2/10

realized by the East India Company in the respective Years.

£. s. d. 6 lift per cwt

1824-25

1825-26

1 12

Oft

1826-27

1 12

7 5/10

1827-28

1 15

9 9/10

1828-29

1 12

- 9/10

1829-30

7 6/10

1830-31

9 8/10

1831-32

4 8/10

1832-33

2 9/10

1833-34

-A

Average of Ten Years -

East India House, 28 February 1848.

- £.

" "

James C. Mclvill, Secretary.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

469 873

Appendix, No. 4. PAPER delivered in by S. B. Moody, Esq., 2 March 1848, and referred to in Answers to Questions 5443-47.

Appendix, No. 4.

Cost of Interest op Capital laid out in TABLE to show the Cost of Interest of Capital laid out in Machinery and Fuel, to make Machinery, &c. 400 Tons of SUGAR from the Cane by the Beet-Root Machinery, Grinding included, with the necessary Skilled White Labour, and Unskilled Black and White Labour, in Slave and Free Labour Colonies respectively.

Supposing both estates to use coal as fuel, in order to save the crushed cane as manure: the saving of fuel, if crushed canes were used as fuel, would be nearly the same, but could not be as accurately distinguished, as the balance of fuel saved by Slave Labour would tell in the crop as manure.

Interest at 10 per cent, per annum on 4,000 I. worth of machinery erected, and calculated to grind and boil 400 tons of sugar in 100 days of 24 hours each

SLAVE-LABOUR

FREE-LABOUR

COLONY.

£.

400

Interest at 10 per cent, per annum on 8,000l. worth of machinery erected, and calculated to grind and boil 400 tons of sugar in 100 days of 12 hours each Amount of coal necessary to grind and boil 400 tons of sugar in 100 days of 24 hours each, requiring 45-horse power steam-boilers, working 24 hours per day, and consuming about 12 lbs. of coals per horse-power per hour, which is at the rate of 7 s. per ton of sugar, ground as in 1832 ; 585 tons at 30 s.

870

200

800

2,700

660

3 00-

Black and coloured labour: about 20 people, four extra hands being required to work by spell at the steamboilers in the colony of Demerara, at 2 s. 1 d. per task of 8 hours, or about 3 s. per task of 12 hours, or 15 /. each negro per 100 days -

Expenses per Cwt. of Sugar made

Skilled labour to attend to the machinery: one engineer engaged for the year at 300 l. per annum; and one sugar-boiler engaged for the year at 360 l. per annum Black and coloured labour: about 16 people, at the rate of the annual expenses of a negro, from the returns of an estate, without interest of any description, at 8 I. 6 s. 8 d. per negro per annum, or 2 l. 15 s. each per ---100 days

Amount of coal necessary to grind and boil 400 tons of sugar in 100 days of 12 hours each, requiring 90-horse power steam-boilers, working 12 hours per day, and consuming 37 lbs. per horse-power per hour, or 18 tons per day of 12 hours for 90-horse power, which is at the rate of 3 hogsheads of coal 14 cwt. for a 10-horse power steam-engine, grinding 3 hogsheads of sugar of 16 cwt. of sugar each, or I hogshead of coal to I hogshead of sugar, which is the average colonial rate ; 1,800 tons at 30 s. Skilled labour to attend to the machinery: one engineer during crop time, 100 l. ; and one superior overseer for the boiling house at 100 l. per annum -

£.

1,514

4,460

- 11

Being a balance in favour of slave labour about 7 s. 3d. as long as the West Indian planter has the slight degree of control over his labourer which he now has, and which is quite unable to enable him to ensure steady attention to his machinery, economical consumption of his supplies, and the continuous labour necessary for day and night work. Appendix, 0.32. 303

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

470

Appendix, No. 5. A

of all

RETURN

PAROCHIAL

and

TAXES.

PAROCHIAL

Rate per Cent.

St. John St, Dorothy St. Thomas in the Vale Clarendon ... Vere Manchester St. Mary St. Ann ... SURREY: Kingston -

£.

2 1 2 2 2 2 2 1

2 6 6

1,751 - 6 613 10 -J 2,084 5 11 2,981 16 3 1/2 2,4.30 8 2 4,412 19 10 4,461 6 2 3/4 5,084 7 3

682 626 946 1,316 891 929 1,653 2,403

7 1 12 6 12 2 11 2 4 1/2 - 13 10 10 -

371

8 7 7 7 7 7 9 7

6 6 6 6 6 6

272 16 235 5 " 354 15 493 10 : 334 2 6 348 7 6 743 7 901 2 6

2 2 2 1 2 2

6 -

1,266 3 9 3,293 - 4,615 7 1,128 15 1,212 12 4 3/4 1,687 6 11

438 1,166 1,266 438 194 618

33,799 10

3,379 19

1,331

689,808 4 851,961 644,032 10 1,098,333 6 1,196,600 -

8 -

41,388 10 51,117 13 38,641 19 65,900 71,796 -

1 -

1 2 2 2 1 10

1,321 1,847 2,625 2,550 2,347

7 7 7 7 5

6 6 6 6 -

2,069 8 6 5,111 14 4 1/2 3,864 3 10" 5,590 - 6,581 6 -

including mules, 37 at 27 s. 6 d. 4 7 6 7 6 7 6 7 6 7 6

280

s. d.

£.

10,003

Amount of Taxes.

12,661 12 8 32,930 - 46,153 10 15,050 8 12,126 3 11 16,873 9 2

s. d.

57,161

563,325

990

£.

...

3 1/4

£.

5 4 5 3/4 1

211,027 548,833 769,225 250,840 202,203 281,224

by last Return, £.

2,619 15

16,163 12,270 20,841 29,818 24,304 44,130 35,690 67,791

Port-Royal St. Andrew St. Thomas in the East St. David Portland ... St. George

TOTAL

6 4 3 6 -

TOTAL

269,389 6 204,510 8 347,360 496,969 405,081 735,500 594,844 10 1,129,850 -

CORNWALL: St. Elizabeth Westmoreland Hanover ... St. James ... Trelawny -

s. d.

6 13 3 6

Metcalfe

Rate per Head.

Number.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate per Pound.

26,197 13

£.

969,350

Assessed Annual Value.

436,628

MIDDLESEX: St. Catherine

Laid;

DUES,

Riding Horses. (Agricultural exempted.)

Hereditaments.

Annual Value.

and

PUBLIC TAXES, RATES,

385 87 437 474 164 72 231

765

495 7 692 12 984 7 956 5 586 15

6 6 6

12,896,795 16 10 3/4

772,807

9 1/2

77,242

9 1/2

26,857

10,389

13,051,849 12

783,111 11

9 1/2

67,670

28,102

10,536 12

2£

12 5 15 5 15 ' 15 -

1 6

RETURN of the Estimated

ANNUAL EXPENDITURE OF

CHURCH PURPOSES.

£.

s. d.

MIDDLESEX; St. Catherine St. John St. Dorothy St. Thomas in the Vale Clarendon Vere Manchester St. Mary St. Ann -

3 2 3 3 3 2 5 4 6

126 18 60 228 210 162 78 40 10 30 -

SURREY: Kingston Port-Royal St. Andrew St. Thomas in the East St. David Portland St. George Metcalfe -

3 2 5 6 2 4 3 I

166 78 130 153 138 84 180 118

CORNWALL ; St. Elizabeth Westmoreland Hanover St. James Trelawny -

4 6 3 3 5

20 126 90 30 198

£. s. d. 60

70 350

300 30

150

Sextons, Beadles, and Assistant Beadles.

Organist

Contingent

and Organ Expenses.

Regulator.

Building, Repairs, Purchases, and Grants.

Total Amount

s. d.

£.

s. d.

£.

s. d.

£. s.

115 60 94 60 130 44 69 130 115

4 -

156 10 10 28 30 53 4 24 15 59 33 -

120

151 397 14 94

5 1

3 6

826 14 11 30 - -

50 100

120 57 19 57 15

446 190 308 798

186 75 110 145 30 54 39 20

151 62 75 74 20 56 27 10

226 36 60 40

213 80

200 60

110 23 8 110 35 13 10 8

6 -

138 140 42 100 250

30 102 42 12 60 160 -

£.

26 40 6

- - 8-

64 215

80 205

30 170

150 300

230

£>

2,473 10

1,020

2,146

1,268

1,302

1,734 10

3,639 14 11

by last Return, £.

2,461

750

2,227

1,258 10

1,284

1,336 13

6,291

TOTAL

Parish Clerks and Chapel Clerks.

Curates.

Rectors.

7 11

733 19 485 1,108 1 482 459 12 , 676 472

111

715 9 1,483 15

942 531 435 822 271

' , , - 8 -

304 13 -6 287 158 8

412 - 1,093 208 4 530 973 13,584 J

15,608 14 11

875

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

471

Appendix, No. 5. Received, or to be Collected, for the Current Year 1844, in the Island of Jamaica.

PAROCHIAL TAXES.

Breeding Mares and Followers. .Number.

Horned Stock and Mules.

Rate per Head.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate perHead.

Number.

Asses. Rate per Head.

Number.

Dogs. Amount of Taxes.

Number.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate per Head.

s. d.

£. s.

s. d.

£. s.

542

40 13

3,810

142 17

270

13 10

665

199 10

403 252 523 1,022 591 2,213 854 3,489

2 1 1 1 1 1 2 1

6 6 6 6 6 6

6 6 6 6

1,504 3,071 3,087 6,619 4,495 9,400 5,653 20,226

1 1 -

6 6 9 9 9 9 9

112 76 139 248 168 352 282 758

16 15 15 4 11 10 13 9

6 3 3 6

134 56 561 233 64 38 124 452

2 1 1 1 1 2 1

9 -

13 8 2 16 28 1 11 13 3 41 8 6 12 8 22 12 -

155 266 284 281 125 331 559 898

4 3 6 6 6 2 3 2

_ -

111

67 193 236 519 129 335

1 1 1 1 1 1

6 6 6 6 6

5-6 14 9 6 17 14 25 19 9 13 6 25 2 6

483 2,557 7,533 2,221 1,962 1,756

962

5,528 2,531 764 420 549

1 1 1 1 1

6 6 6 6 6

40 18 39 76 44 165 85 261

6 18 4 13 6 19 8 13

22,l22 22,827

- 9 - 9 - 9 - 6 - 9 - 9 3,544, at 9d. 2,397, at 2s. 9 d.

- 11

371

3 9 9 6 9 -

515 1,177 844 1,092 136 204

2 1 1 1 1

8 -

51 10 58 17 42 4 36 8 6 16 10 4

203 548 413 190 194 296

2 4 6 4 2 1

20 6 109 12 123 18 38 19 8 14 16

462

474

94 16

459

68 17

551 613 488 393 517

17 11 11 17 9

6 3 3

436 216 85 166 415

1 1 1 -

9 3

21 16 10 16 3 3 9 8 65 3 9

761 442 532 540 620

1 3 4 6 4

5,941

414 12 189 16 57 6 31 10 41 3

6 6

14,716 16,362 13,018 10,503 13,799

1,677 10

148,747

5,903

7,703

459 12

9,133

1,610

156,888

5,494

8,229

381 17

11,621

2 17 9 10 11 17

9 9 9 9 9

18 4 6 10 2 17 16

18 95 282 55 73 65

31 39 85 84 37 33 83 89

38 66 106 162 124

1 6 8 -

1,649 19

2,257

several Parishes in the Island of Jamaica, for the Year 1844. PAROCHIAL OFFICERS.

SCHOOLS.

Schoolmasters and Catechists.

£. s. d. 60

116 9

130 303 60 30

_ _

60 - _

1,694

135

50 350 400

" " 3

1,783 0.32.

Clerks of Vestry and Common Council.

£.

Clerks of Peace and Common Pleas.

Collecting Constables, and Deputies.

£.

210 150 120 211 — 220 120 200 323 10 300 -

300 112 72

500 180 250 300 120 160 250 250

150 300 360 150 140 200 350

150 200 180 220 265

200 276 300 300

4,879 10

4,749

5,063

5,282

Criers of

Town Clerks and Recorder.

the Courts.

£.

Clerks and Keepers of Markets.

£.

s. d.

£.

s. d.

£.

240 120 100 100 50 100

100

100 100 100 100 120

7 1/2 2,652

328 10

- 137

313

3,421

307

- 222

345

200 - 42 - 506 12 6 550 17 1 1/2 240 - -

100

Magistrates.

Town Clock.

6 10 20 - 15

Clerks

£. 100 300 100 100 100 100 120 132 170

s. d.

Keepers

s. d. - -

£.

100

10 10 15 -

170

6 18

50 15 13

304

s. d. -

100 120 150

245 11 240 -

6 -

300

Captains of Fire Engines.

£. s. d. 36

_ -

4 16 84 42 -

145 16

1,375 11

143 16

1,090

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

472

RETURN

of all Parochial and Public Taxes, Rates and Dues,

PAROCHIAL TAXES—continued.

Wheels.

Number.

Tavern Licenses.

Rum Licenses.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate per Pair.

£.

St. Catherine

366

329

St. John St. Dorothy St. Thomas in the Vale Clarendon Vere Manchester St. Mary St. Ann -

28 106 100 104 94 70 22 242

40 24 36 24 36 12 24 24

440

Port-Royal St. Andrew St. Thomas in the East St. David Portland St. George

8 518 168 42 24 12

Number.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate each.

Amount of Taxes.

£.

330

_ -

28 63 12 90 62 8 84 12 21 13 4 145 4

10 12 35 30 20 50 30 63

10 10 12 9 12 6 10 6 10

100 120 420 270 240 300 300 425

6 6 3 4 3 1

880

2,352

12 24 24 24 20 2

2 8310 16 100 16 25 4 12 - - 12 -

9 40 50 9 11 15

78 480 600 54 198 120

255

160 210 120 190 332

24 32 12 36 20

96 168 36 171 166

405

30 41 35

150 492 420

MIDDLESEX:

f 2 at 100 s. 3 at 60 s.

»•

40 s. 40 s. 60s. 40 s. 40 s. 60 s.

12 12 9 8 6

- - - - - -

24 l.

3 - -

SURREY: Kingston

Metcalfe

5 at 10 l., 4 at 7 l. 12 - 12 - 6 - 18 - 8 - 15

3 l.

2 1

3 l. 3 l.

3 - -

5 I.

5 - '

2 l.

40 s.

CORNWALL: St. Elizabeth Westmoreland Hanover St. James Trelawny -

5 12 12

£.

3,374

2,815

681

8,109

146

by last Return, £.

3,760

2,831 16

675

7,742

147 1°

TOTAL TOTAL

7 10

A RETURN

of the Estimated Annual

PAROCHIAL OFFICER S—continued. Keepers of Fire-Engines nnd Pumps.

—

Police-Officer and Town Warden.

£. a. d.

MIDDLESEX: St. Catherine

St. John St. Dorothy St. Thomas in Charenton the Vale Vere Manchester St. Mary St. Ann -

SURREY: Kingston Port-Royal

159

s. -

£. 84

150

d. -

St. Andrew St. Thomas in the East St. David Portland -

St. George Metadfe

CORNWALL: St. Elizabeth

Westmoreland Hannover St. James Trelawny

60 15 26 50 50 20 40 80 100

95 30 60 80 25 3 25 50

60 30

120

d. -

Poor-House.

£.

s. d.

200

50 36

60 63

360 40 60 95 20 30

60 60 168 90

£. a. d. 70 40 30 36 60 18 45 150 25

24 50 54 40 30 40 40

60 90 60 30

£.

243

234

934

126

992

1,436

by last Return, £■

243

'938

146

1,257

1,306

to Poor and Keepers.

£. a. 6 -

Matron

Surgeon

PoundTything Men.

£. a. d.

•

15 30

TOTAL

Inspectors of Weights and Measures.

Expenditure

Poor-House.

£. £. s. d.

60 - -

70 11 30 -

- -

34 8 ' 18 - -

320 383

19 6

877 SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

Laid, Received, or to be Collected, for the Current Year

473

1844—continued.

PAROCHIAL TAXES —continued.

Licenses.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate each.

Dray and Cart Licenses.

s. d.

£.

Rate each.

Amount of Taxes.

£.

s. d.

66 12

9 12

Gunpowder Licenses.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate each.

Hawkers Licenses.

£.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate each.

60 s.

3 18

20 s. 4 I.

3 72

6 10 2

41. 31. 20 s.

24 30

20 s.

20 s. 60 s. 40 s. 20 s. 40 s.

80s.

60 s.

20 s. 20 s. 30 s.

20 8

Billiard Licenses.

£.

s. d.

118

126 10 of the

177

363

193

580

280

15 *

2 2 6

273 15

453 19

162

312

235 12

463

739

£.

15 - -

s. d.

- _

several Parishes, for the Year 1844—continued.

Deputy

Treasurer's

Parish

Harbour

Clerk.

Printer.

Master.

Marshal.

OFFICER S—continued.

Keeper of Court-House.

£.

...

. 12

20 8 10

PAROCHIAL

£. s.

6 30

£.

1 10 1

Amount of Taxes.

Rate each.

26 60 60 -

60 -

40 24- 48 24' 16 24 " 24-

s. d.

24 12 60 30

42 16 93 1

£.

s. d.

10 20 10

6 15 18

s. d.

24 6 18

- 24 " - -

Keeper

Fire Arms.

£.

Solicitor.

£.

s. d.

31 10 11 60

Surveyors of

Parish

5 -

8- -

10 18

30 12 60 100 115

6 18 15 36 30

18 36

827

300

294

- -

831

348

305

and Streets.

Transient Tax.

£.

100

£■

s. d.

100

165

150 20

Collectors

Road9

36 40 100 54

491— 481 12

£.

. 25

0.32.

£.

Registrar of Births and Deaths.

30 40

3 P

117 10

386

256

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

474

RETURN

of all Parochial and Public Taxes,

Contingencies of the Census.

Amount of

Taxes.

£.

MIDDLESEX: St. Catherine

St. Ann. SURREY: Kingston Port-Royal

Amount of Taxes.

£.

£. s.

606 12

100

684 10 313 16

1 9

90 61 11 320 15

2 -

£.

Trades, Business, or Professions.

Rate

Value.

Per Cent.

£.

Amount of Taxes.

£. s.

38,340

800 7,575 3,745 16,050 6,500 9,840 10,420 31,800

204,460

1 per cent. -

2,044 12

3,100 1,303 11,500

J per cent. -

15 10 6 6 57 10

80 39

5 -

a. d.

150

Assessed

191 14 -

J per cent. -

4 37 18 80 32 49 52 159

I? 14 5 I" 4 2 -

6 6 ' -

30 200

50 32 33

16,050 7,800

100

22,750

113 15

18,035 37,060 37,862 10 98,560 58,350 -

185 7 11III 1/4 189 492 16 " 291 15 -

1,283 12

268

641,900 10

1,091

235

435,976

St. Andrew St. Thomas in the East St. David ... Portland St. George Metcalfe

Amount of Taxes.

4 1/4

Vere

Markets.

St. John St. Dorothy St. Thomas in the Vale Clarendon -

Manchester St. Mary -

Pounds.

662 16

and Dues,

TAXE S—continued. •

PAROCHIAL Contingencies of Town Police.

Rates

...

CORNWALL: St. Elizabeth Westmoreland Hanover St. James Trelawny -

21 120 662 16

4 1/4

by last Return, £.

635 17

6 3/4

-i

- £.

TOTAL

318 11

1,923 10

4 1/2

RETURN

4,231M3_3,

Clerk to Fire Wardens.

Purveyor to Hospital.

Messenger,

£. a. d.

£.

MIDDLESEX:

&c. &c.

St. Catherine St. John St. Dorothy St. Thomas in the Vale Clarendon Vere Manchester St. Mary St. Ann

4,517

2 2

of the Estimated Annual Expenditure

PAROCHIAL OFFICER S—continued. Surveyor of Fire Wardens.'

Collectors of Petty Debts.

Surgeon of Lock-up.

Keeper of the Lock-up.

Coroner-

Almoner.

£. a. d.

£. s. *

SURREY: Kingston ...

Port-Royal St. Andrew St. St. Thomas David in the East Portland St. George Metcalfe

100

160

CORNWALL:

300 - -

St. Elizabeth Westmoreland Hanover St. James Trelawny TOTAL

TOTAL

350

' -

200

£.

by last Return, £.

100

175

201 -

52 -

850 -

799

' I

879

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. Laid, Received, or to

Collected, for the Current Year

1844—continued.

PAROCHIAL TAXES—continued. Parish surcharges.

Parish Land.

Marine Hospital.

Church and Poor.

Amount of Taxes.

Rent.

Amount of Taxes.

s. d. 3 7

£.

s. d.

4 16

£.

20,658 19

800 4 16

800

Amount of Taxes.

Rate per Head.

£.

£. s.

123 15

13 11

85 5 78 5 115 15 164 10 111 7 116 2 206 12 300 7

6 6 6 6

6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6

10 1 6 6 612 18 6 25 11 14 15 6 55 6 6 21 7 87 4 6

1,626 7 11 3/4 5,021 3 7 6,344 13 9 1,586 1 6 1,722 1 75 2,236 12 1 3/4

54 15 145 158 5 54 15 24 5 77 5

6 6 6 6 6 6

1 4 5 12 3 8

5,338

166

24 - 6

165 2 230 17 326 5 318 15 293 10

6 6 -

6 6 6 6 6

4,215 7,356 6,114 9,355 10,119

4,938 18

123,887

3,352

5,665 14

118,607

2 3/4

3,512 15

- -

1,004 15

Amount of Taxes.

215

141 2 1 1/2

6 -J 1 3 1/2 5 6 4 3/4 9

8 3/4

26 6

2,434 6 1,230 4 4,044 14 4,708 8 3,473 4 5,776 2 6,613 5 7,932 8

15 5 3/4

2 16

per Head.

2 1/2

4,723 18 1

Rate

Taxes.

£.

Breeding Mares and followers.

Riding Horses.

Of Parochial

5,979 17

204 15

PUBLIC TAXES.

Total Amount.

475

5 6 5 11 8 - 7 7 6

1/4

13 16 18 19 4 7

6 6 6 6 6

138 4 63 5 18 15 10 10 13 15

6 6 -

552 16

570 13

several Parishes, for the Year 1844—continued. OFFICIERS—continued. Hector of Public Building.

£.>•

MISCELLANEOUS

Total Parochial Salaries.

£.

8. d.

1,410 641 559 646 820 576 1,336 19 1,862 6 1,476 8

2 7 1/2 -

2,506 632 1,064 1,107 459 530 690 958

8 -

1,307 913 8 1,388 16 1,035 1,302 -

Law Business.

£.

s. d.

173 97 200 13 20 30 20 -

6 13

9 4

7 -

1,100 50

150

97 14 23 19

3 8 1/2

Coroners'

Out-door

Inquests.

Paupers.

£.

s. d.

200 80 60 120 90 70 122 17 150 -

300 99 250 60

Road and Hospitals.

Street Repairs.

£.

9 6 -

390

1,080

140 100 53 19 14 106 -

£.

600 40 46 17 127 8 72 100 120 225 314 3

40 - 80 - 37 13 10 1/2 78 19 100 - 118 - 150 - 133 16 146 8 -

EXPENDITURE.

1,530 122

202 12 483 2

5 1/2 9

70I

£.

900 - 860 - 16 - 1,399 10 2,680 - 500 - 2,100 - 1,805 19 10 2,480 - -

650 60 600 1,575 100 400 400 1,950

- - - - - _ - 1 8 - -

Ordinaries and Extraordinaries.

£.

138 70 99 310 410 350 750 209 420

19 18 15 18 9

5 6 6 9 6

1,763 145 200 345 130 150 208 430

- - _ - _ - - - 1 10 - -

160 . 60

220 60

23,220

24,636 18

0.32.

9 1/2 6

1 -

2,012

6 1/2

2,486 14 10 1/2

2,293

628 18

450 1,080

42 450 800

7,181 11

3,525

8 1/2

7,492

2,991

935 1,000

3 p 2

, -

1,200 3,000 100 16 2,300 3,400 28,477 23,513

7 8

_ -

400 429

750 9

7,719

9 1/2

11,915

9 7 1/2

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

476

of all Parochial and Public Taxes, Rates and Dues,

RETURN

PUBLIC Horned Stock and Mules. Rate per Head.

Amount of Taxes.

....

TAXE S—continued.

Asses.

Dogs.

Rate per Head.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate per Head.

Wheels.

Amount of Taxes.

Rate per Pair.

£. s.

£. 8.

£.

St. Catherine

47 12

4 10

66 10

109 16 -

St. John St. Dorothy St. Thomas in the Vale Clarendon Vere Manchester St. Mary St. Ann ...

3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3

18 38 47 82 56 117 70 262

16 7 11 14 3 10 13 16

9 9 9 3 6

4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

2 9 3 1 2 7

4 18 14 17 1 12 1 10

8 8 8 8 4 8 4 8

2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2

15 26 28 28 12 33 55 89

10 12 10 2 10 2 18 16

12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12

_ -

8 831 16 30 - 31 4 28 4 21 - 6 12 72 12 -

132

8 13 19 12 4 14 1 4 18 - 2 6 4 3 8-

2 2 2 2 2 2

19 18 54 16 41 6 19 19 8 29 12

12 12 12 12 12 12

2 8155 8 50 8 12 12 7 4 3 12 -

MIDDLESEX:

£. s.

SURREY: Kingston ...

Port-Royal St. Andrew St. Thomas in the East St. David ... Portland St. George

3 3 3 3 3 3

6-9 31 19 3 94 3 3 27 15 3 24 10 21 19 -

4 4 4 4 4 4

...

3 3 3 3 3

Metcalfe

7 18

45 18

183 19 204 10 163 18 131 5 172 9

6 3 9 6

4 4 4 4 4

7 3 12 1 8 2 15 6 18

_ 4 4 8

2 2 2 2 2

76 44 53 54 62

12 12 12 12 12

CORNWALL: St. Elizabeth Westmoreland Hanover St. James Trelawny -

- £.

1,869

127 17

913

by last Return, £.

1,961

137

1,162

TOTAL

2 4 4 6

A MISCELLANEOUS

Contingencies of Census Act, and Registry of Births and Deaths Act.

Printers' Accounts.

Parish.

£.

s. d.

£.

St. Catherine St. John -

100

215 134

2,273

St. Thomas in the Vale Clarendon -

196 230

St. Mary St. Ann -

343 300

4 -

580 141 12 280 200 100 -

108 158

St. Elizabeth Westmoreland

280

St. James Trelawny -

352 282

3,899 16

St. Dorothy

£.

1,339 17 11 3/4

Vere Manchester

1,013

1,005

of the Estimated Annual Expenditure

EXPENDITUR E—continued.

Refreshments at Elections of Members of Assembly.

Debts Due by the

MIDDLESEX:

RETURN

48 - 63 - 36 12 57 - 100 4 -

•

Public Buildings, Pounds.

In-door Paupers.

Bridges, &c.

£.

8. d.

£.

6 — 72 14 62 4

— -

50 5 74 26

6 2

7 6

626

108

44 100

258

28 19 500 -

£.

205

2 1/4

200

- -

SURREY: Kingston Port-Royal St. Andrew St. Thomas in the East

St. David

Portland St. George Metcalfe -

6,500 76 16 3,000 836 -

3,000

1,182

500

3,750

22,458

CORNWALL:

Hanover TOTAL

TOTAL

£.

by last Return, £.

178

43,135 14

6 3/4 6

120 60

200

410 100

280 315 700

- - - -

540

2,336 19

1,725

657

3,101 11

1,000

- -

881 477

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. Laid, Received, or to be Collected, for the Current Year 1844—continued. PUBLIC

Trades. Rate per Cent.

Land Tax.

Amount of Taxes.

Quit Rent.

Amount.

TAXE S—continued. Public Surcharges.

Capitation Tax.

Amount.

TOTAL.

GRAND TOTAL.

Amount of

Amount.

Public Taxes.

£. s.

£.

£. s.

95 17

408

-J

233

25 12

13 12 2 5 12 1 10

9 3 6 -

402 257 457 1,035 371 1,090 427 1,507

15 7 12 -J 10 1 1/2 9 10" 10 8 1/4 19 6 12 4 1/2 19 10 1/2

80 56 93 207 74 218 91 338

4 10

8 1/4

2 18 9 40 16 24 26 79

511

7 15 3 5 28 15

2 -

40 19

2 5

6 -

191 483 748 317 323 406

456

45 1 92 13 128 10 246 8 110 12

9 6

11 1 13 5f 10 -1/4 2 6 14 3 10" 16 10 14 -

£.

25 16

625 545 805 1,618 686 1,677 908 2,736

£■

1,128 16

7,108 10

4 1/4

3,059 1,776 4,849 6,327 4,159 7,453 7,521 10,668

11 10 16 4 3/4 2 3 3/4 13 9 3 10 3/4 9 14 3 1/2 11 -1/2

18 16 2 8 11 19 19

MIDDLESEX:

St. Catherine.

4 5 3/4 4 1/2 -I 3 6 8 1/4 9|

St. John. St. Dorothy. St. Thos. in the Vale. Clarendon. Vere. Manchester. St. Mary. St. Ann.

Kingston.

SURREY;

i 4

19 17

3 19

14 1 1/2 7 7 17 6 19 11 7 6 11 1 1/2 8

58 13 24 98 8 6 1/4 177 17 6 64 3 5 1/2 105 3 8-f 110 2 3

107 15

739 13 - 18

-1/4

21,398 12

1,978 6,017 7,664 2,113 2,271 2,928

352 8 7 1/4 996 13 4 1/4 1,319 11 7 527 5 1 1/2 549 10 6 3/4 692 5 1

2 1/2

945

16 7 16 11 1/4 5 4 6 7 1/2 12 2} 17 2 3/4

6,283 14

Port-Royal. St. Andrew. St. Thos. in the East. St. David. Portland. St. George. Metcalfe.

CORNWALL ;

1/4

1,427 4 10} 1,195 4 9 638 3 If 817 19 4 1/2 919 1 4"

1,603 16 11

13,905 10

2,350 11 1 1/2

14,890 18 10 1/4

4 3/4

285 8 11 239 - 11 1/4 129 5 9 1/2 163 11 104 183 14 4" 3,121 12 3,733

8 1/2

3 1/2

2,376 3 2,136 8 1,496 2 1,810 6 1,862 11 25 16 13,211

2 1 if

- 1/2 2 1/4 7 4

26,537

41,921 17 11 1/2

9 1/4

6,591 1 6 1/2 9,492 14 l| 7,610 10 -3/4 11,165 7 2 11,981 18 10 150,424 1 0

4 1/4

160,529

2 1/2

St. Elizabeth. Westmoreland. Hanover. St. James. Trelawny.

of the several Parishes, for the Year 1844—continued. '

•

Surveyors'

MISCELLANEOUS Indemnity for

Night Watch

Total

Total Expenditure

Houses

and

Miscellaneous

pulled down.

Fire Company.

Expenditure.

the Parishes.

Account.

189 10

EXPENDITURE—continued.

£.

<7.

£.

4,859 1 9 5 1,287 - 1,813 15 1 1/4 2,202 5 6 3,522 - 1,138 18 6 3,195 - 3,425 3 3 3/4 4,809 9 9

£. 7,003 2,413 3,541 3,330 4,801 2,390 5,003 6,119 7,769

18 8 - 10 -J 7 12 18 6 19 2 7 11 1/4 13 3

Total Revenue

£.

5,979 17 2,434 6 1,230 4 4,044 14 4,708 8 3,473 4 5,776 2 6,613 5 7,932 8

MIDDLESEX:

2 1/2 6 -J 1 3 1/2 5 6 4 3/4 9

St. Catherine* St. John. St. Dorothy. St. Thomas in the Vale. Clarendon. Vere. Manchester. St. Mary. St. Ann. SURREY:

4,000

17,403 754 4,548 3,366 778 3,850 942 4,554

16 14 11 15

3 2 1/2 7

20,851 2,047 1 6 6,350 5,355 1,538 8 4,685 2 1,980 4 5,806 3

3 8 1/2 7"

20,658 19 6 1,626 7 11 3/4 5,021 3 7 6,344 13 9 1,586 1 6 1,722 1 7 3/4 2,236 12 if 5,338 4 9

Kingston. Port-Royal. St. Andrew. St. Thomas in the East. St. David. Portland. St. George. Metcalfe.

4,269 7,295 8 2,168 17 11,707 9,146 -

4,215 7,356 6,114 9,355 10,119

St. Elizabeth. Westmoreland. Hanover. St. James. Trelawny.

CORNWALL:

22410 -

4,000

0.32.

- 1

• 250

250

3,456

2,550 5,289 521 17 9,792 6,471 87,075

103,030 19

3 p 3

5 6 5 11 8 -1/4 - 7 7 6

7 1/2

125,574

123,887

145,059 13

118,607

2 3/4

Appendix,

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

478

Appendix, No. 6. Appendix, No. 6.

Qualities of Sugars defined for Duty.

PAPERS delivered in by H. Crossley, Esq., 11 March 1848.

THE QUALITIES

THE

of the different

defined, with reference to the Duties to be charged thereon.

SUGARS

subject as to differential duties appears to rest upon the following points:—

1st. What is muscovado sugar, and wherein consists the difference of quality? 2d. What is clayed sugar? 3d. What are the variations in the qualities of clayed sugar, and wherein consists the difference between white clayed sugar, or sugar equal thereto, although not clayed ?

First, then, muscovado or raw, generally known to consumers as moist sugar, is the primary production from the juice of the cane, or any other vegetable substance containing saccharine, convertible into real, and not fictitious sugar; the former obtained from the cane and beet-root, the latter from the potato, sago, &c. To convert the juice of the cane into sugar, it undergoes several operations—not general* but variable ; as some, who make fine qualities, filter and decolour the syrup ; while others who have not the means of doing so, make inferior. Eut in either instance, from the semicrystallized mass, a drainage naturally ensues, which liquid matter (the lees of crystallization), is the molasses imported from the colonies, or from which rum is distilled. The crystal, or grain of raw sugar (muscovado)—indeed, of every description of sugar, even refined—when first formed, is coated more or less, according as the quality is superior or inferior, with a coloured substance, varying from pale yellow to the darkest brown; which substance is partially created by heat, necessarily employed in evaporating the syrup, which, when concentrated to the consistence for crystallizing, is then poured into a mould or vessel. And to improve the quality of raw sugar after its primary formation, various means are employed in the sugar-producing countries; such as an admixture of clay and water put upon the surface of the raw or muscovado sugar, in the mould or vessel, by which means this coloured and inferior substance is separated, or the like effect is produced by pure water combined with atmospheric pressure, or by a magma of sugar, or with thick syrup ; each method operating to dissolve the coloured matter surrounding the white or purer part of the crystal or grain of sugar, which, accordingly as it is more or less acted upon by repetition of the means used, is white, partially so, or of a yellow tinge ; and the two lastly-described qualities, not in reality muscovado in its natural state, are, nevertheless, erroneously supposed to be only equal thereto, and therefore are classed and charged with the same duty as that on muscovado or raw sugar. Secondly. Clayed sugar, such as is made in Cuba, Brazil, &c. (and scarcely any other sort than clayed is made in those countries; whilst in the British West India colonies raw sugar only is made), is produced by the admixture of water with clay to a consistence suitable for pouring upon the muscovado; viz., the semi-crystallized mass is put into large receivers in Brazil, and in Cuba into moulds, similar to those in which lump sugar is made. By this operation the sugar is not wholly rendered white. The upper part is so; the under part partially so; the middle less ; and the bottom, or head, as it is termed, is brown; but each of these qualities, to a certain extent, has had the benefit of this process of claying; and the last-mentioned quality (brown), although it may be, and is, considered and classed in those countries as muscovado, and not superior in colour to that of the British West Indies, nevertheless it is partially clayed sugar. Thirdly. White sugar, not clayed, but equal thereto; such as is made in the East Indies, and particularly in Manilla, Java, &c. The difference consists merely by using substances holding water or moisture in their natural state; such as grass, leaves, &c., or any other •substance moistened, from which the water or moisture is absorbed by the softer and inferior part, or coloured matter, that envelopes each crystal or grain of the raw or muscovado sugar; and the same or a better effect is produced than that by claying as before described. Again, in Demerara, the pneumatic process is employed (pure water and atmospheric pressure) upon muscovado sugar of large crystals, denominated crystalline sugar, which is consumed in this country ; and, if white, it is equal, if not superior, to refined sugar. Consequently, in these respects, sugar operated upon by either of the modes lastly described, although not clayed, is, in reality,'equal thereto, and in some cases superior. In the debate in the House of Commons on the 28th Feb. 1845, an hon. Member stated, according to the report of a leading journal, " that, although sugars made in the East Indies were not clayed, they were of a peculiar 'manufacture, being filtered through wet grass, by Which the colour was greatly improved, and the sugar rendered very white ; but that process diminished

SELECT COMMITTEE

SUGAR

AND

COFFEE

PLANTING.

479

883

diminished the strength of the sugar, and rendered it intrinsically of less value." And, fur- Appendix, No. 6.; ther, that " the rich muscovado sugar of the West Indies was principally used by the rich; while the East India sugar, from its being free from impurity, and of a' better colour, was Qualities of Sugars defined for Duty. principally used by the middling and lower classes." The foregoing remarks, illustrative of the causes that produce sugars of different qualities, would not, without further elucidation, meet the arguments of the hon. Member alluded to, and rebut their fallacy as to the superior saccharine quality of British plantation muscovado sugar. The honourable Member stated, that filtering the sugar through wet grass rendered the sugars of the East Indies very white. It is not by filtering the sugar through wet grass, but by putting wet grass upon it, or any other moist substance, such as clay and water, magma of sugar, sponge, damped woollen or linen, See., from which the water or humid matter mixed, or in union therewith, is absorbed by the sugar; and percolating through the mass, separates the outward inferior part of each crystal or grain, and thereby renders the sugar more or less white, according to the quality of the muscovado, which also varies in colour and strength proportionately as the cane is at maturity or not, the soil in which it has been cultivated, seasons, and the modes of manufacturing the juice. It is true that the sugar of British India is generally inferior in sweetness to that of the West Indies, and so is beet-root raw sugar; therefore, in this respect, the quality of East India is not quite equal to some sorts of West India sugar; but it must be observed, that both East India sugars and also beet in a raw state (muscovado) can be made, as they have been, by a simple elementary process, as sweet as West India muscovado; and this I positively assert, and can prove incontestibly. Therefore, under all the circumstances of the case, as to the propriety and equity of charging the present and supposed protecting and differential duty of 6s. per cwt. ON foreign sugar, " Brown sugar, being muscovado, or clayed, or any other sugar not being equal in quality to white clayed sugar," as classed by the Act of 9 & 10 Vict. c. 63 ; and as such clayed sugar, admitted as muscovado, is intrinsically of very superior saccharine quality to raw or muscovado, like that solely imported from the British West Indies, and also partially from the British East Indian possessions, upon which description of clayed sugars the duty is charged at a supposed protecting rate ; it follows, therefore, that the revenue sustains a considerable loss, and that the present duty on foreign sugar also operates to ruin the manufacturers of East and West India sugars, who most certainly must cease to cultivate the sugar cane unless they are protected by duties on foreign sugar equivalent to the real quality thereof. Emerson-street, Southwark, London, Henry Crosley. 31 January 1848. Emerson-street, Southwark, London, My Lord, 9 February 1848. HAVING had the honour, about 12 months ago, of personally conferring with your Lordship as to the production of sugar, I am emboldened to take the liberty of addressing you at this momentous period, on the important question you have raised for the consideration of the Legislature, respecting the protection of the proprietors of sugar estates in the West India colonies and in other British possessions. On the 31st ult. I addressed a letter to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the subject in question, accompanied with a definition of the different qualities of sugar imported, which has especial reference to the said letter; the copies of these documents I beg leave to transmit herewith, although, possibly, they are already in your Lordship's possession; and as your Lordship has obtained the appointment of a Committee of Inquiry, notwithstanding the tone of the Chancellor's communications to The House, I presume that, in furtherance of the laudable object your Lordship has in view, any additional information will be acceptable; I therefore most respectfully beg leave to state, according to my humble opinion,â&#x20AC;&#x201D; 1st. That the question of protecting the British growers of sugar rests upon the pivot of differential duties now charged, and intended to be charged, on the importation of sugars of foreign production, whether by slaves or free labourers, and most especially upon a particular species of clayed sugar generally imported from Cuba and Brazil. 2dly. That the principle of charging duties according to the quality of the sugar imported from the British West India colonies was recognised by former Legislatures, and acted upon until 1829, up to which period clayed sugar, if there produced, was chargeable with 6 s. per cwt. more duty than upon (raw) muscovado; but, from causes hereinafter named, it was then (about 1829) deemed expedient to permit the importation of either of these sorts of sugar, clayed or muscovado, at the same rate of duty, although it was then well known that clayed sugar was not a product of the British West India colonies, which made, as they now do, muscovado raw sugar only. This injudicious equalization of duties arose from the desire to favour certain individuals interested in British West India sugar estates, who held an exclusive patent right in the West Indies for a scientific process; by which, and, as a substitute for claying raw or muscovado sugar, could, immediately after its formation, and almost instantaneously, be divested of the inferior part; thus rendering the beautiful product crystalline white sugar, the intrinsic saccharine quality of which is equal to that of refined loaves and lumps; yet, notwithstanding this, superior crystalline white sugar, and also that somewhat inferior in colour, by a shade, were permitted to importation at the same rate of duty charged upon the brownest and lowest quality of muscovado. As 0.32. 3 p 4

480

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

As the drawbacks in 1830 allowed upon the exportation of refined sugar were calculated to be equal only to the duty upon raw or muscovado, which does not possess the same quantity of pure saccharine matter as clayed or crystalline sugar; as a much greater weight Qualities of Sugars of refined loaf and lump and bastard sugar was obtained from the cleansed or crystalline, defined for Duty. not white; as the revenue thereby sustained a great and incalculable loss by the disproportionate rate of drawbacks allowed upon the exportation of refined sugar made from both muscovado and the purified sugar, which drawback* were fixed upon the representation of the committee of sugar refiners, according to their incorrect statement of products obtained from 1 cwt. of raw or muscovado sugar, which statement was adopted by the Government as the basis upon which the drawbacks upon the exportation of refined sugar were allowed ; as the refiner's trade, although benefited in this instance, was injured in another, inasmuch as the crystalline white sugar imported from Demerara was consumed and preferred to loaf and lump sugar, the retail price of the former being equal to that of the latter; and, moreover, as few of the West India proprietors could even then afford to expend 3,000 l. to 4,000 l. for machinery, apparatus, &c., to manufacture the superior crystalline sugar, white, or a shade in colour less so,—all these united reasons induced me, in 1830, to represent to Government the results of the injudicious scale of duties and drawbacks as previously stated ; and it was only after years of exertion, by memorials to, and conferences with, certain members of the Administration, that I succeeded in convincing them of the impropriety of permitting crystalline white sugar to be imported, to prevent the injury sustained in one way by the refiners of sugar, and also by almost the. whole of the West India body ; accordingly, such crystalline white sugar was thenceforth rated as foreign refined sugar, then subject to the prohibitive duty of 8 l. 8 s. per cwt., and by subsequent acts and regulations of the sugar trade the revenue was eventually protected by adopting my suggestions (as contained in my pamphlet of July 1830,) and requiring that foreign and optionally British plantation sugars should be refined under bond, (and without payment of import duty), to export the whole of the products obtained by refining. 3dly. That when the Act of the 9th & 10th Vict, was passed, the principle of charging differential duties, according to the quality of sugar, was again recognised, as priorly to 1829, at which period clayed sugar was charged 6 s. per cwt. more than upon muscovado. By the said Act, " White clayed sugar or sugar rendered by any process equal in quality to white clayed, not being refined, for every cwt. 16 s. 4 d. Brown sugar, being muscovado, or clayed, or any other sugar, not being equal in quality to white, per cwt. 14 s." But it is most important to remark, that the said Act especially, and with reference to determining the qualities of clayed sugar imported, directs that the same are to be determined by standard samples, and with reference to colour, grain, and saccharine matter ; which latter property is the essential quality of sugar of all descriptions. Under this false classification of " brown sugar, being muscovado," unjustly rated at the same duty as " clayed not being equal in quality to white clayed," although the processes have been particularized by which clayed can be and is made; but as many persons not conversant with the art of refining sugar believe that the foreign clayed sugar not white, now charged with 20 s. per cwt. duty, is upon a par with muscovado, as the duty is the same, it is necessary to state — Ithly, That the mode prescribed by the said Act to determine the quality of white clayed " not being refined," is an erroneous distinction, because, by a proper clarification of the juice of the sugar cane, and by subsequently filtering the syrup through decolorant or other substances well known and in general use, the syrup, so divested of any remaining impurities in the clarified cane juice, can be, as it is (even without employing decolorant substances), converted direct into refined sugar, without making a solution of the raw or muscovado sugar, which otherwise would be the first product of the cane juice: this fact, that refined sugar is thus made direct from the raw material or juice, has long since been established and demonstrated in the beet-root sugar factories in France and elsewhere. The Cuban and Brizilian clayed sugar so made direct from the raw material or juice, is virtually refined sugar, and it is in colour or whiteness equal to that denominated and known in the trade as single refined ordinary lump sugar, which is inferior in saccharine quality to clayed; yet,, under the Act in force, such Cuban and Brazilian clayed sugars are permitted for consumption into Great Britain at the trifling and disproportionate and supposed protecting duty of 6s. per cwt., comprised in the duty of 2Qs. per cwt. ! ! In Cuba the process scarcely differs from that in making European single refined sugar. The boiled and semi crystallised mass is poured into moulds like those used in our refineries,—clay mixed with water, and formerly used by refiners, is employed in Cuba to purge the inferior or brown part from the superior or white,—-stoves, or the high temperature of the climate of Cuba, dry the sugar in the moulds; and, as the sugar when turned out'of the mould is a lump, from which (as with a lump of single refined sugar made in England) the inferior part at the apex of the cone is separated, and the superior part (which is as hard as British single refined sugar) is broken, pounded, or crushed by a mill such as is used in England for the like purpose, Therefore, the processes are alike, or scarcely variable, but the saccharine quality of the falsely denominated clayed sugar is superior to that of British single refined lump sugar, because the latter is generally made from the exuded syrup from other lump or loaf sugar, whilst clayed sugar is the virgin and primary product of the cane, not deteriorated, as is the case with the exuded syrup of which single refined sugar is made, by the repeated boilings and action of heat, necessary to concentrate the syrup to the degree for crystallization. 5thly. That tire last-mentioned definition of the quality or qualities of clayed sugar, and the mode of manufacture, is an irrefragable proof that the existing scale which governs the importation Appendix, No. 6.

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481

885

importation of various descriptions of sugar, both foreign and of British colonial production, Appendix, No. 6. is founded upon an unjust and disproportionate basis, highly detrimental to a variety of British interests, and operative, so far as foreign sugars are concerned, as a bounty for Qualities of Sugars defined for Duty. increasing the slave trade. I could adduce other, and more minute, and equally cogent reasons in support of the arguments and statements I have advanced, to explain the cause and effect of the ruinous position of the British West India colonies, which our Eastern possessions partake of in a great measure ; and, with great deference to your Lordship's superior judgment, I venture to suggest most respectfully, and in conclusion, that by a differential and real (and not as now a supposed) protective duty on foreign sugars according to their intrinsic quality, founded on the only just criterion, viz. the saccharine properties of sugars imported, that such accordance by the Legislature, even though not accompanied, as justice demands it should be, with aid from Government, by introducing free African labourers into the British West India colonies, together with other minor ameliorations as regards the exportation from the colonies of their products, such measures would enable the proprietors of sugar estates to stem the present crisis. Finally, I respectfully solicit your Lordship to permit me verbally to point out more minutely than I have done, by this letter and by the accompanying documents, the true bearings and ramifications of the case; as, upon a just determination by the Legislature depend the renewed prosperity of our once esteemed and valued West Indian colonies, or their annihilation as an appendage to the British Empire. With the utmost respect, &c. To the Right hon. Lord G. Bentinck, M. P. Henry Crosley. (signed) &c. &c. &c.

To the Right honourable Sir C. Wood, Bart., Chancellor of the Exchequer, &c. Sir, I RESPECTFULLY take the liberty of representing to you that upon various occasions during the last 18 years I have memorialized the Right honourable the Lords of the Treasury, and also certain members of the Administration, upon matters connected with the protection of the revenue, with reference especially to duties on sugar imported, and refined sugar exported for drawback and bounty; and also upon other matters appertaining to regulations of the sugar trade; which representations have chiefly, but with modifications, been adopted by Government; and for such services, verbally acknowledged by gentlemen in office, I have received their thanks. As it is presumed that Government purpose to remodel the scale of duties upon sugar imported, I again take the liberty of submitting to your consideration various statements to prove that, by the present rates of duty charged upon a particular description of foreign clayed sugar, on which 20 s. per cwt. is paid, that such rate, which it was supposed gave a protecting duty of 6s. per cwt. in favour of sugars of British growth charged at 14s. per cwt., is not in reality so, but on the contrary ; and that from this cause must principally be attributed the wide-spreading ruin of the growers of sugar in the British West India colonies and in British India; who, as they cannot manufacture the particular description of foreign clayed sugar alluded to, as their factories and means are not available for such purpose, they cannot for this reason, and also on account of the disproportionate duty thereon, compete with the manufacturers of such sugar in Brazil, Cuba, &c., who make it almost exclusively, whilst in the British West India colonies and possessions in the East Indies, muscovado, or raw sugar, not clayed, is nearly the only production; therefore, unless the Legislature protect these British interests, by charging an equitable duty proportionate to the real, and not, as at present, the supposed quality of such foreign clayed Sugar, the British manufacturers of raw or muscovado must of necessity cease to cultivate the sugar cane, To elucidate the position advanced, I beg leave most respectfully to crave your attention to the definition of the different qualities of sugar transmitted herewith; and in order that you may appreciate as to the faith to be placed in this and other statements of mine, I beg eave to mention that, from early life, and for upwards of 30 years, I have been extensively and practically occupied and interested in the refining and manufacture of sugar; and although not so now, as a refiner of sugar, yet for the last 18 years I have been established as an engineer and maker of improved machinery and apparatus for manufacturing colonial sugar; the orders for which have, however, ceased to be given in consequence of the discouraging aspect in the British sugar colonies and possessions in the East. By the Act 9 & 10 Vict. c. 63, folio 695, the duty on foreign "brown sugar, being muscovado, or clayed, or any other sugar, not being equal in quality to white clayed, fop every cwt, 20 s." The 7th head provides that the duties upon such sugars shall be with reference to " samples of white clayed sugar, and of sugar rendered by any process equal in quality to white clayed sugar;" but " with reference to colour, grain and saccharine matter." Therefore it is evident that the intention and true meaning of the said Act was not to confine the fixing of the quality of the sugar to colour and grain only, but to that quality which constitutes the intrinsic value of all descriptions of sugar, viz. the saccharine matter; and this property or quality is the main object sought by the refiners and by domestic consumers of sugar,â&#x20AC;&#x201D;grain and colour being but secondary considerations, as exemplified and acknowledged with reference to the defective saccharine quality of East India muscovado sugar, and that produced from beet-root; which, although possessing colour 0.32. 3 Q

482

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

colour and grain equal to West India, and especially beet sugar, from the superior mode in which it is manufactured; nevertheless, both sorts are greatly inferior to West India raw or Qualities of Sugars muscovado. Yet, under the said Act, and contrary to its true intent (as is supposed), the raw defined for Duty. sugar of the British West India colonies, which is the only sort of sugar there made, whilst in Brazil and Cuba the chief and almost only sort is clayed sugar, which is divested of the brown and inferior part combined with raw sugar; which sugar of British growth, and of inferior saccharine quality, is charged at the same duty as the superior quality of clayed, excepting the supposed differential and protecting duty of 6 s. per cwt.; and in proof that foreign clayed sugar, not white, such as is charged at 20 s. per cwt. duty, is of a superior saccharine quality, I beg leave to state, that, 1 cwt. of such clayed sugar when refined yields about 102 lbs. refined loaves and lumps, whilst 1 cwt. muscovado yields about - 80 lbs. „ „ „ Again, and in furtherance of the statements advanced, I have, by actual workings under my inspection, operated (but not by claying) upon at least 10,000 tons of muscovado or raw sugar, of almost all growths, to divest it of the inferior part, and to render the cleansed sugar like unto the foreign clayed sugar, on which the duty of 20s. per cwt. is charged; and the results were, that upon an average, about 168 lbs. of muscovado was required to produce 112 lbs. of the cleansed sugar; and, in order to protect the revenue from loss sustained by allowing, as in 1830, disproportionate drawbacks upon the exportation of refined and bastard sugar, under the Act of 9 Geo. 4. c. 93, which drawbacks were calculated to equalize exactly the duty of 27 shillings then charged upon muscovado or raw sugar; at that period I memorialized the Right hon. the Lords of the Treasury upon that and other subjects connected with the regulations of the sugar trade, and particularly pointed out the results stated as to 168 lbs. of raw sugar being equivalent to 112 lbs. of cleansed sugar; and I have had the satisfaction, not only in this instance, but subsequently in others, to see that the Ministers of the Crown have acted upon my suggestions. In 1830 I published a pamphlet, which had especial reference to the operations last-named, and also to the manufacture and refining of sugar, drawbacks, &c.; and such pamphlet, which was presented to the Right hon. the Lords of the Treasury, is, I believe, a recorded document in their offices. With respect to the foregoing statements as to the quantities and qualities of foreign clayed and British muscovado sugars, and the duties respectively charged thereon under the Act now in force, and the effects operating thereby to the injury of the revenue, and destructively to the growers of sugar in the British West India colonies, and in the possessions within the limits of the East India Company's Charter, into which the importation of foreign sugar is prohibited ; it appears equitable that— As 168 lbs. or 1 1/2 cwt. of muscovado or raw is required for the production of 112 lbs. or 1 cwt. of sugar resembling such foreign clayed sugar, although by the process of claying in Cuba and Brazil, a greater quantity of muscovado is required to produce 112 lbs. clayed;—that the duty ought to be charged on its representative, or at least upon £. s. d. - 1 10 — 168 lbs. or 1 1/2 cwt. at 20 s., amounting to Appendix, No. 6.

To equalize the differential and supposed protective duty on British muscovado; and as 112 lbs. or 1 cwt. of muscovado really represents only 75 lbs. of clayed, the duty on the former ought to be at the rate of 14 s. per cwt., or Thus showing that the grower of British muscovado sugar pays an excess of duty upon each cwt. of The Duty charged

4 1/2

7 1/2

- per cwt.

Consequently, the differential and protective duty upon foreign clayed sugar, not white, contrasted with that upon British muscovado, to equalize the duties, the foreign clayed ought to be charged 16s. per cwt.; which rate of 16s. per cwt. would justly be the differential and protecting duty, in addition to 14s. per cwt., or total 30 s. per cwt. upon foreign clayed sugar, not white, in lieu of 6s., in addition to 14s. or 20 s. per cwt. now charged upon this description of sugar. Therefore the revenue sustains a loss of 10 s. per cwt. on foreign clayed sugars, not white, imported under the Act of 9 & 10 Vict. c. 63, which also operates to the disadvantage of the growers of British muscovado raw sugar, who, eventually, if the said Act is not remodelled to give them only a fair protection, must be ruined altogether. Finally, and in order to corroborate and prove to your entire satisfaction, that 112 lbs. British muscovado sugar is only equal to 75 lbs. or thereabouts, of foreign clayed sugar, not white, I will, with your permission, operate in your presence, or in the presence of any person or persons you may be pleased to appoint, and wherever you may think proper in London, upon a given quantity of raw or muscovado sugar. I beg to apologise for intruding upon your invaluable time this verbose detail; yet hoping that the importance and magnitude of the subject under review will be accepted as an excuse for the liberty I have taken in addressing you, I have, &c. Emerson-street, Southwark, and Grove, Camberwell, Henry Crosley. 31 January 1848.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

483

Appendix, No. 7.

Expenses of Harts and Royals Estate, 1 Aug'. 1846 to 31 July 1847.

PAPERS delivered in by Mr. Shandy 9 March 1848, and referred to in Answer to Question 8104.

ABSTRACT

EXPENSES

HARTS AND ROYALS ESTATE,

from

August

£. Wages

Lumber -

1846

s. d.

2,081 9 4 1/2 Labourers -31 63 Tradesmen -----183 17 Manager ------106-11 Overseer 40 - Town Agent 6,167 feet pitch pine lumber 9,000 feet white pine lumber 11,240 feet spruce lumber 4,000 red oak staves 57,005 shingles 10 bundles wood hoops 2 empty hogsheads

... ... -

July

£.

Stock

1 horse 1 bull

Food

Various provisions, &c. (use of emigrants) 206 bushels corn 2 hogsheads oats 4 bushels salt -

s. d.

2,442 13

Taxes

Parochial Public

Small Stores -

56,000 nails 1,200 bricks 15 hoes 2 hogsheads coals ---Salaratus 011 Tallow --Pitch and Tar 14 hs. rope ... 2 iron pots 2 kegs white lead Stationery

23 12 9 463 376 169 10 19 9 82 466113 - 346 19 - -

Miscellaneous -

Doctor Farrier Black and Copper-smith Porterage

45 - 27 - 59 13 10 - 15 -

63 22 10

- 10

7 10 1/2

68 17 -

132 TOTAL

Expense

33 96 22 18 4 1/2 56

-J

83 9 10 103 15 17-1 16 206

6 1/2

85 10

1847.

101 1 3 124 - 128 17 4 68 8 156 17 1 8 9 6 2 12 10 1/2 590

£.

8 10

3,582

7£

CREDITS.

By sale of sundr ies in the island

------

£. s. d. 104 3 1 36

By sale of rum i n the island

0.32.

140

At 220 p' ct. ex.

- £.

3,442

Equal to Sterling

- £.

1,564 1 1

3 R

887

6 1/2 7

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT PROM THE

484

Appendix, No. 7.

, from 5th August 1833 to 20th August 1834, (The last Year of Slavery.)

HARTS AND ROYALS PLANTATION ACCOUNT

Harts and Royals Plantation Account, 5 Aug. 1833 to 20 Aug. 1834.

SUGAR ACCOUNT.

Date.

DISPOSAL.

Pounds Gross.

Pounds Nett.

19,825 30,925 31,375 38,350 40,250 101,315

18,239 28,451 28,865 35,282 42,550 93,210

1834: 15 April

Shipped per Shipped per Shipped per Shipped per Shipped per Shipped per

6 May 28 — 19 June 25 July

August

Phoenix Planter Denison Grace Phoenix Denison

10 10 10 20 23 51

Total shipped Paid the Customs

130 6

268,040 *11,845

246,597 *10,900

Total crop of 1834

142

279,885

257,497

* Four and a half per cent. Tax.

MOLASSES ACCOUNT.

DISPOSAL.

Date.

Amount.

Gallons.

Price.

at 2/ X 30

1833 : 5 August

William M'Farlane -

364

Francis Shand Sold per cash account Ditto - ditto Darrell & Co. Daniel B. Garling Shipped per Planter Shipped per Grace Shipped per Corsair -

8 2 2 1 2 14 4 16

967 241 238 120 226 1,778 402 1,894

6,230

£. s.

41 10

1834: 12 March

31 — 11 13 11 0 19 5

June —

July May June July

1/9 1/6 1/6 1/9

99-3 21 13 0 21 9 12 6 19 2 9

X „ X „

1/4 1/4 X „

£.

215

Molasses yet to be shipped by the " Two Sisters."

BILLS OF EXCHANGE

Sterling Sum.

In whoso Favour.

Date.

DRAWN.

4 November

Daniel B. Garling

Samuel Nelson & Co.

200 p.

127

210 p.

202 10

188 10

£.

- 6 3/4 -

389 10 6 3/4

RUM ACCOUNT.

1834: 0 September.

125

£.

63 10

£.

1833: 20 August -

Amount.

Exchange.

Shipped per "Denison," 4 puncheons: 440 gallons.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING.

485

883 Appendix, No, 7.

Harts and Royals Estate,

Harts and Royals Plantation Account, 5 Aug. 1833 to 20 Aug. 1834.

To sundry Persons. Dr. 1833:

£.

6 August 5 — 5 — 13

—

To Hornell and Coletart, for 6 dry good puncheons, at 30 s. each To James Armour & Co., for 1 ditto - ditto To Will. M'Farlane, for 4 barrels of herrings, at 64 s. To cash account, paid the 4 1/2 per cent, duty on 6 puncheons rum, shipped per " Denison" To Francis Shand, for 2 puncheons corn meal, at 21 dollars per

4 September To cash account, paid the 2 1/2 per cent, import tax on herrings received per " Phoenix" 6 — - To cash account, paid L. L. Hodge, for a cattle mill 19 — - To Francis Shand, for 2 puncheons corn meal, at 21 dollars per 26 — - To cash account, paid Andrew Pirie for a dry good puncheon

s. d.

9 1 7 12 16

1 18 18 18

- 12 0 54 - 18 18 1 10 -

3 October 3 — 3 — 15 — 29 — -

To Francis Shand, for 2 puncheons corn meal, at 21 dollars per .... To Peter P. Walter, for a half crown beam To Thomas M'Coard, for 20 1/2 lbs. bar iron, at 6 d. per lb. To John Jones & Co., for 2 puncheons corn meal, at 21 dollars per To - ditto - ditto - for 2 puncheons corn meal, at 21 dollars per

18 9 18 18

1 November

To D. B. Garling, for 3 months' salary as bookkeeper, 40 I. per ----annum To James Boyle, for 3 months'wages as blacksmith -

10 - 11 10 -

—

_ —

16 26

— —

—

3 December 3 _ 13 _ — 13 13

To Thomas F. Baily, for 3 months' salary as overseer, at 100 l. ----per annum To Francis Shand, for 4,000 red oak staves, at 41 1/2 dollars per To James P. Darrell, for 2 puncheons corn meal, at 21 dollars per

1834: 15 January 23 _ 1 February 1 _ .

To - ditto - for 2 American horses To cash account, paid John IT. Moore, for bleeding and curing a grey horse of lameness -------To cash account, paid Nathaniel Humphrys for 2 puncheons corn meal -

... To James P. Darrell for 2 puncheons corn meal To cash account, paid Mary Marchant, for 2 oxen - To R. B. Eldridge, for 2 puncheons corn meal for 53 feet pitch-pine lumber, at 18 I. per To - ditto -

19 16 36 - 19 16 - 19 1

To Matthew George, for a pair of cart-wheels £. 12 12 ditto - for a pair of cart pipe bones 1 16 To -

- -

3 12

19 10

11 20 20 28

_ — _ —

. .

To C. and W. Shand, S. S., for 44 3/4 lbs. beef, supplied for the manager's and overseer's Christmas present -

7 1 1/2

To cash account, paid the negroes for extra work done on the estate To cash account, paid apprehending "Jack," a runaway

2 -

29 -

- -

To D. B. Garling, for 3 months' wages, at 40 l. per annum To A. Geddes, for 3 months' wages, as manager, at 140 l. per annum £.35 - — Paid a nurse, 18.1.; sickhouse expenses, 75 s. 6 d.; pitch, 6 s.; and for 2 funerals, 36 s. - 6 15 6

41 15

1 — 1 —

25 — — 74 14 18 18 -

14 20

3 -

To A. Geddes, for 3 months'wages as manager, at 1401. per annum £.35-Paid for 14 fowls, 28s.; 5 lbs. mutton, 10 s.; arrow-root, 5 s.; wine, 6 s.; gin, 4 s. 6 d.; candles, 2 s. 3d.-, and paid towards the burial of - 5 9 9 2 negroes, 54 s. 40

1 8

18 10 18 18

To Thomas F. Baily, for 3 months' wages, at 100 I. per annum To James Boyle, for 3 months'wages as blacksmith To Wood & Bennett, for 28 1/2 bushels oats, at 6 s. 9 d. per bushel To John Jones & Co., for 28 lbs. rod iron, at 6d. per To Francis Shand, for 6,000 red oak staves, at 411/2 dollars per To William Fairclough, for freight,between 1st March last and date of 3 hogsheads sugar and 15 puncheons molasses, at 6 s. -

0.32.-3

R 2

25 - 11 10 9 12 4 1/2 - 14 112 1 5

(continued)

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

486 Appendix, No. 7.

£.

1834 :

Harts and Royals 28 February Plantation Account, 5 Aug. 1833 to 20 Aug. 1834.

28 28

—

15 March 29 — — 31

—

1 April 19 — 21 — 1 May

To John Furlonge, for 12 months' medical care of and attendance - £.32 8 on 108 slaves, at 6 s. each per annum £.10 per 100 slaves, allowed in the lieu of charges for surgical operations, midwifery, 10 16 &c. 5 - A year's care of one overseer To John Furlonge, for 2 empty oat hogsheads To Parish St. John, for tax on 107 slaves, at 6 s. 6 d. £.34 15 each per annum - 12 17 And on 206 acres of land, at 1 s. 3 d. per acre

3 12

47 13

6 6

To cash account, paid the negroes for extra work done To William Fairclough, for 109 feet hardwood, at 9 d. per foot To cash account, paid W. & F. Harvie, for a double-reined bridle, ... &c. To Langford L. Hodge, for 2 hhds. building lime, at 45 s. per hhd. To To To To To

s. d.

Francis Shand, for 4,700 feet deals, at 11 l. 8 s. per 1,000 ... cash account, paid the negroes for extra work John Jones & Co., for 50 lbs. tallow at 1 s. 9 d. per lb. Daniel B. Garling, for 3 months' salary, at 40 I. per annum £. 35 - Archibald Geddes, for 3 months' wages Paid for 4 fowls, 8 s.; 1 lb. mutton, 2 s.; 1 bottle gin, 4 s. 6 d.; cotton wick, 4 s.; paid towards - 1 16 6 the burial of an old negro, 18 s. -

4 4

2 54 10 53 11 7 1 16 4 7 6 10 - -

36 16 1

—

1 1

— —

—

15 24 24 27

— — — —

9 June 11 —

— — —

2 July 11 —

26 30

—

31 31 31 31

— — — —

4 August 6 — 15 — -

To Thomas F. Baily, for 3 months' wages, as overseer, at 100 l. per annum ----------To James Boyle, for 3 months' wages, as blacksmith To Treasury, for record tax on 117,208 lbs. net of sugar, at 1 d. £.4178 per cwt. - - 1 8 686 gallons of rum, at 3 d. per 100 gallons 6,733 gallons of molasses, at 3 d. per 100 gallons - 16 10 - - 4 3 200 acres of land, at 1/4 d. per acre To Thomas F. Baily, for his salary as overseer, from 1st instant to date, 14 days, at 1001, per annum -----To Elias A. Brown, for 9 molasses casks, at 4 dollars per To William Wardle, for a sugar shovel To John Jones & Co., for I hank mill lacing .... To Daniel B. Garling, for 4 pieces cinnamon To cash account, paid for 18 molasses puncheons, at 36 s. each To James Armstrong, for 20,000 eightpenny and tenpenny nails, ... at 7 s. per thousand To cash account, paid the 2 1/2 per cent, import tax on invoice per ... " Perseverance, " Montrose," and " Phoenix" To cash account, paid for 2 molasses puncheons, at 36 s. each ..... To cash account, paid for vitriolic acid To cash account, paid for 4 molasses puncheons, at 4 dollars per To cash account, paid the 2 1/2 per cent, import tax on goods received per " Phoenix" -------To cash account, paid Owen Pell for 4,131 lbs. yams, at 7 s. per -----cwt. To Andrew Gardner, for one year's salary, due to him for super..... intending the windmill for the crop To Daniel B. Garling, for 3 months' salary as book-keeper To James Boyle, for 3 months' salary as blacksmith ... To John Dickson, for 2 months' salary as overseer, at 90 /. per aim. £. 85 - To Archibald Geddes, for 3 months' wages Paid 54 negroes for extra work, 108 s.; basil skins, 6 s. 9 d.; apprehending Cuffy, 9 s.; cotton wick, 4 s.; castor oil, 9 s.; candles, 2 s. 3 d.; arrow root, 1 s.; and paid towards burying a child, 9 s. -7 9To cash account, paid free labourers -----To Francis Shand, for 200 rivets, at 2 s. 8 d. per 100 To Samuel Nelson & Co., for 3 barrels of pork, at 12 £.21 16 dollars per For 3 barrels of flour, at 8 dollars per - 10 16 -

25 - 11 10 -

6-5 3 16 8 16 4 - 13 6 - 12 2 532 7

- -

8 17 11 3 12 - 4 7

- 12 14

25 10 11 10 15 -

9 10 - 4

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING. 1834: 15 August 20 —

£.

—

To cash account, paid free labourers -----To cash account, paid proportion of the expenses of the smith's shop at Nibbs's, at which place Royals blacksmith work is done, say from 1st May 1831 to 1st August 1833 To John Jones & Co, for 4 puncheons corn meal, at 18 § dollars

—

To Francis Shand, for 21 rum-puncheons, at 40 s. each

£.

885

487 s. d.

16 14

11 10

33 12 42 -

1,404

Appendix, No. 7.

9 Harts and Royals Plantation Account, 5 Aug 1833 to •20 Aug. 1834.

5 10*

* Currency, at 220 per cent exchange, equal to 638 l. 6 s. 3 d. sterling.

Cr. 1833 : 22 October -

S. 6 10

£.

By John Furlonge, for 1 hogshead of oats -

d. 6

1834 : 20 August 20 — 20 —

By amount of molasses disposed of ----By amount of bills drawn By C. & W. Shand, for balance transferred to close

215 7 389 10 792 17

£.

1,404

6 1/2 3 1/4

5 10

Appendix, No. 8. AN ACCOUNT showing the Quantities of

the Produce of British Possessions, Imported into the United Kingdom in the Years 1845, 1846 and 1847.

SUGAR,

Quantities of Sugar, the Produce of British Possessions, Imported into the United Kingdom. 1 8 4 5.

British West Indies and British Guiana; viz. Antigua Barbadoes Dominica Grenada Jamaica Montserrat Nevis St. Christopher Lucia St. St. Vincent Tobago Tortola Trinidad Demcrara Berbice -

1 8 4 6.

1 8 4 7.

U nrefined.

Refined and Candy.

TOTAL.

Unrefined.

Refined and Candy.

TOTAL.

Unrefined.

Refined and Candy.

TOTAL.

Cwts.

102,644 302,496 52,700 76,931 572,875 5,316 26,665 90,075 63,562 129,870 38,822 6,342 353,293 252,449 73,307

240,201 469,021 65,451 104,952 751,416 7,657 41,833 149,096 88,370 175,615 69,240 8,285 393,537 522,392 112,777

209,971 351,484 57,883 71,249 742,855 10,286 30,858 122,773 71,251 132,673 62,709 6,175 364,151 499,102 120,575

209,971 351,486 57,883 71,249 742,855 10,286 30,858 122,773 71,251 132,673 62,709 6,175 364,151 499,102 120,575

102,644 302,496 52,700 76,931 572,875 5,316 26,665 90,075 63,562 129,870 38,822 6,342 353,293 252,449 73,307

2,853,995

2,853,997

2,147,347

2 -

151 2

3,199,843

154

3,199,697

845,197

1,193,572

277

1,193,849

5,750

1,438,024

1,407,171

11,511

1,418,682

. Mauritius British Possessions in the East Indies Other Parts -

716,173

845,197

1,338,440

1,338,459

1,432,274

361

- . -

4,908,969

4,908,990

4,424,835

5,751

4,430,586

5,800,595

TOTAL

Office of the Inspector-General of Imports and Exports, Custom-House, London, 7 March 1848. 0.32.

240,201 469,022 65,451 104,952 751,416 7,657 41,833 149,096 88,370 175,615 69,240 8,285 393,537 522,543 112,779

_ -

11,942

(signed)

5,812,537

W. Irving.

APPENDIX TO THIRD REPORT FROM THE

488.

AN ACCOUNT showing the Quantities and the different Countries from which FOREIGN Account of FOREIGN

SUGAR SUGAR

Quantities of Foreign Sugar Imported 1 8 4 5.

Imported from Countries the Produce of which during the operation of the Act 7 & 8 Vict. c. 28 (now repealed) was admitted, by Orders in Council, to entry for Home Consumption, at the distinctive Rates of Duty then applicable to Sugar not the Produce of Slave Labour:

1 8 4 6.

Unrefined.

Refined and Candy.

TOTAL.

Unrefined.

Refined and Candy.

TOTAL.

Cwts.

Java ---------

46,854

Philippine Islands ........ China

118,581 5,744

Siam

163

British Possessions in the East Indies -

United States of America New Granada

80,911 73,120

5,758

58,222

22,232 6,890

73,120 3

58,225

38,389

2,220

38,388

22,232

199

203

1,956

1,961

6,890

Venezuela --

. 202,683

80,911

163

2,210

46,874 118,581

11,593

11,593 13

264,402

300,509

1,558

302,067

499,907

13,292

513,199

202,718

264,389

325,359 197,476

151,053

96,471

168

Imported from other Countries and Colonies : Brazil

325,359

Cuba

107,460

.......

Porto Rico

151,053

St. Croix ------.. St. John St. Eustatius

.......

Dutch Guiana

Belgium

3,308

641

British Possessions in America Prussia Hanseatic Towns Holland -

3,308

24,972

2,323 139

139

7,558

70,509

78,067

10,978

5,279

16,257

933,283

90,784

1,024,067

1,128,054 J 1,197,672

90,797

1,288,409

3,012

198,345

202,829

14,421

290

1,961

1,967

709,238

216,098

911,921

216,133

4,484

Tuscany

Office of the Inspector-General of Imports and Exports, Custom House, London, 7 March 1848.

1,493 13,863

3,012

France

Aggregate of the Quantities of Foreign Sugar] Imported, and of the Quantities entered fori ÂŁ. ... .J Home Consumption

1,493 13,861 2,323

Other Parts

641 24,980

925,336 |

887

SELECT COMMITTEE ON SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTING,

489

has been Imported into Great Britain, in the Years 1845, 1846 and 1847 ; also a similar entered for Home Consumption.

Quantities of Foreign Sugar entered for Home Consumption in the United Kingdom.

into the United Kingdom.

1 8 45.

1847.

Unrefined.

Crvts.

Refined and Candy.

TOTAL.

Unrefined.

Cwts.

1 8 46.

Refined [TOTAL. and Candy.

Cwts.

Unrefined.

Cwts.

1 847.

Refined and Candy. TOTAL. . i

Cwts.

Unrefined.

Refined and Candy.

TOTAL.

Cwts.

193,699

513

194,212

15,333

73,956

114,029

114,032

173,838

173,839

59,016

76,305

63,187

63,188

89,011

89,013

2,158

2,160

37,515

37,518

41,836

41,838

17,948

8,724

17,948

13,713

13,717

312

51,483

307

130

437

1,044

1,069

453

4,853

494,413

675

495,088

699,219

2,474

701,693

881,083

27,632

908,715 248,484

248,484 147

453

6,819

168

f 1,316

1,316

765

765 1,935

724

2,270

4,733

3,830

1,935 237,463

109,403

109,405

202,287

199

202,486

154,817

13,585

168,402

350,143

16,074

366,217

81,220

120,235

185

58,808

21 10

1 16

172

244,429

244,425

72,440

724

6,823

77,289

77,287

8,724

51,484

I 3,830

4,853

72,293

8,018

237,477

120,235 147

58,955

1,010

4,080

1 1

8,019

38 1

717

718

37,216

4,106

4,144

3,884

8,028

566

1,718

4,003

4,113 566

336 13

796

808

337

118

1,805

118

4,003

1,580

1,584

102

105

504

509

1,920,252

72,161

1,992,413

358,430

13,608

372,038

738,070

16,786

754,856

2,414,665

72,836

2,487,501

77,344

77,372

602,855

13,612

616,467

975,533

16,800

992,333

MVS**. W. Irving.

0.32.

3 R 4

BIBLIOTHEQUE SCHOELCHER 80179168