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Special interview:
George Gomez
Stern’s Executive VP of Game Design
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PINBALL Santiago Ciuffo
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George Gomez posing in between Stern’s AC/DC and Metallica at the UK Pinball Party 2013
Interview with George Gomez Interview: Jonathan Joosten, Copy editor: Paul Rubens
In the fall of 2013 Pinball Magazine sat down with George Gomez, Stern’s Executive Vice President of Game Design. George has been designing all sorts of things since the late ‘70s, including very popular pinball machines such as Monster Bash, Revenge from Mars, Lord of the Rings and more recently Transformers and Avengers. The interview was intended to be published in Pinball Magazine No. 3, but as that Issue is taking longer than anticipated new questions have been submitted to George in order to publish a more up-to-date interview in between Issues. George was kind enough to answer these as well and they have been edited into the original interview. Please note that this interview does not focus on George’s career in pinball design, as we’d prefer to do that as a cover story at some point in the future. Instead the interview focusses on George’s current position at Stern Pinball and new developments in the pinball industry.
PM: George thanks for taking the time to sit down with us. You’re a legendary pinball designer … GG: Legendary, well, I don't know about legendary but yes, I’m a designer. PM:Well you have a couple of very good games on your resume. GG: Yeah, a couple. PM: And you're at Stern and you're shaking things up. GG: Yes, my team and I are working very hard. I was hired in July of 2011, so it's been a couple of years. I’m executive vice president of game design; all of the company's game development efforts are my responsibility. I've had a lot to do in that time. I've also had to help out by designing games. That’s been a bit of a personal challenge because designing games is a fulltime job. PM: So that must have been tough. 3
GG: It has been at times. Along the way the intent has been to take the company's technology into the future, so I've been very focused on a new platform which will evolve all of the aspects of our existing game. I'm also trying to focus a lot on the quality efforts; things like standard mechanisms and the elements related to operating games. As much as I love the enthusiast community, I'm very interested in getting pinball machines back into locations earning money. So there's been an initiative to do that amongst the game design teams. We are trying to make the platform more versatile for traditional pay for play operation, including improved reliability and increased earnings. In general I want pinball machines to be part of the mainstream and that means operations, consumer use and expansions of the hobby such as collecting, modding, tournaments, and destination play. Chemistry Of course I’m also very concerned about putting out the best games that we can put out. In my mind the chemistry of a design team is a key component to generating a great game. The game designer always ends up being the guy that gets the credit for the game; people talk about a George Gomez game, or a Steve Ritchie game, but the reality is that the game is really the product of a multi-talented creative team. Just like a modern day film is the product of all of the people that produced it, not just the director. So I've tried to create some new mashups in the staff, putting different designers with different programmers; trying to get new artists, new sound designers, trying to put different combinations of engineers and designers together. I’m trying to create interesting chemistry. In my experience, games like Monster Bash were definitely a part of that chemistry. It was an inspired team working cohesively on a product and I think that you can't force that, but you can do things to try to get you in a position to succeed. Product quality begins with design. I believe that if we do our jobs correctly on the development side in terms of material specifications, process selection, and appropriate technology and assembly techniques, that many of the quality issues resolve themselves. From studying our manufacturing processes and our games, I feel very strongly that we need to try to solve it on the design end. That’s under the hood kind of work; it's not glamorous and it's not work that people are going to notice until all of a sudden the games have higher perceived value. They come to your house and you unbox it and you go, “Wow! That thing is amazing.” We're not there yet, but we've made some strides and very soon you'll see more new elements of the platform trickling into the product. It’s a complex product; significant change doesn’t happen overnight. PM: You’re saying this is a design element, but isn't it more like a quality control element? GG: No, you can't inspect quality into a product; you have to design it in. 4
PM: Sure, but if it's assembled poorly then someone should notice. GG: Yes, somebody should notice, but a lot of times it's assembled poorly because it was designed without the person assembling it in mind. In other words, if we make it hard for someone to do something, then chances are that it’s not going to come out very well. Doing something in an engineering lab and doing something on an assembly line are two very different things. So the way to achieve higher quality is to design it into the product. It's a tremendous time in our company because we've had growth every year since 2010. It took us awhile to recover from the economic downturn of 2008, but we've been on a growth spurt. It's exciting. Part of my job is to build the product development team and I've been proactively trying to go out and get great talent. Guys that I can trust; guys that I think have the skill set and the appropriate technical background to help us elevate the fun factor and the quality of the product. PM: You mentioned you have been focusing on a new technology platform that will take the company into the future. Is there anything new you reveal about that? When can we expect this new platform to debut? Is the development of this platform related to the rerun of Iron Man and the assembly of Medieval Madness? GG: The platform is not related to Iron Man or MM. What I can tell you about the platform is that it has been on test at numerous locations around the world for some time and that we will release it when we feel that it is ready. PM: I’m very pleased to hear you’re looking to make pinball mainstream again and profitable and reliable for operators. Over the years some operators quit buying new games. How do you plan to get them interested in pinball again? GG: High earning, reliable pinball that delivers great ROI. Sounds easy, doesn’t it? PM: It does, but they will have to consider operating pinball again to start with. Back in the day the pinball flyer, or brochure, was aiming at operators and informed them that the new game would bring in lots of cash and/or customers. We haven’t seen such slogans in a very long time. With the Pro models being intended for operators, should the Pro model brochures not be trying to convince operators these games will make them money? That they have a higher resell value? GG: Today pinball doesn’t earn as much as it should. We are trying to improve it but we aren’t there yet. Soon we may see some of the things that we are working on. The resale value of a pinball is unique in the coin operated business and it is a part of the ROI equation. I think that a flyer should focus on the points of difference in the game. If you look at the flyers from the old days, every manufacturer claimed high earnings; it was part of the hype. I think operators are smarter than being swayed because a flyer says the game earns well.
played. Since it has been some time since such photos showed up, rumor has it that Stern quit testing pinball machines on location. Back in the day these test locations would not only show any flaws in the playfield design, but also how a game is earning. If Stern isn't testing games on location, they also can’t provide operators with earning reports. Are these rumors true? If so, how would operators then know when a game is a good earner? Just go by the internet rumors? GG: Absolutely untrue; every game gets location test and every game has a collection history that is reported internally, at first to the team in order to tune the game and eventually to qualified operators that are customers.
George autographing pinball flyers at UKPP 2013 PM: Slightly related to the previous question: In Hollywood it is pretty common to have introductions like, “From the director of …” or “From the makers of …” Would it not make sense to advertise new games in a similar way? “From the makers of AC/DC, Metallica and Star Trek, Stern Pinball presents a new cash box hit: …” GG: In the old days what you describe was very common but I’m not certain what difference it makes. We do announce our designers but that typically only impacts certain segments of the market. PM: Up to some years ago whenever a game was put out on test, photos would show up on the internet and people would report on how it
PM: When we were talking earlier tonight you mentioned that you had a lot of people offering to design games for you. When it comes to game designers, we still see the classic names from the ‘80s and ‘90s popping up again. Any chance that there will be new designers? Because there will come a moment when there is no Steve Ritchie. GG: Yeah, absolutely. I am developing apprentices now and when they're ready you'll begin to see some of that work.We have to eventually replace ourselves. PM: That’s not what I said. GG: No, but it's true and I think that fresh blood is necessary to the health of our business. At the same time it's not an accident that the success that we've had in the past few years, has come very much at the hands of seasoned veterans. A designer has to understand so many things. It's a very complex task to design a game and it's something that is not so clear from the outside looking in. People see the CAD drawings, the pictures, the sketches, the whitewoods and they think, “This is what it takes to design a game.” But there is so much more to it; because these games are not one offs. They're mass-produced and they have to be compelling fun and they have to fit into the business ecosystem of our company, so they have to
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cost the right amount of money, they have to perform in diverse environments, they have to be serviceable and they have to go down our assembly lines. So the capacity to design a game requires someone with not only the vision about what the game should be, but also someone that can operate inside all of those parameters. Anyone can make a blue-sky one off garage game or 15 of something and certainly anyone can talk a good game. Mass production and marketing of commercial and consumer pinball machines every day is not trivial. We love making pinball machines but we are in business in order to be able to make games and we have to worry about the health of our company.We make great games, but they can't be made without a close understanding of everything else that's involved. The notion of design is very much that. It's not art, its design.We are solving a series of problems and the very first problem that we're solving is: how do we create compelling entertainment? But all of the other requirements defining the problem cannot be ignored; it's the reason that a playfield doesn't use technologies that we can't afford. How could we afford to make it? We would go out of business trying to buy the parts to make it.
way licensed themes were handled in the ‘90s compared to what Stern has been doing there is a difference. It seems like with today’s licensed themes there is less room for creative freedom in the design team. Everything seems to be dictated by the license holder. Is that a problem in designing games? GG: I have a university degree in industrial design; I am a professional designer. I began designing pinball machines in the early ‘90s, but my career started in 1978 at Bally Midway. I've designed a lot of things; coin-op video games, consumer toys, arcade novelty games, pinball machines and even home console video games. I've designed a lot of things with licenses, and I've designed a lot of things without licenses. So I've explored both scenarios. I've even designed things like Monster Bash where you basically have the skeleton of a theme, but there's really a tremendous amount of freedom in what you can do.
PM: Two years ago we met at the EAG show in London and we talked about the possibility of new design talent knocking at your door. Or looking for a manufacturer for the game they have designed. At the time you said you would be interested if they could bring you a flipping whitewood. You mentioned earlier that you’re currently working with game design apprentices. During last year's Pinball Expo several P-Roc based pinball machines were presented. Some based on existing games with new rules, sound and art, like Bride of Pin-Bot and The Matrix, but also several complete new playfield designs. You could see these as flipping whitewoods. Did you have the chance to take a look? Where any of those designs, or the people involved, of interest to you? GG: I look at everything that comes up, whether anyone realizes it or not. I’ve seen a lot of enthusiasm from the community and that is really good to see but you have to remember that I’ve seen and worked with the biggest talent in the last 40 years both back at Bally Midway, in my own time at Williams and now at Stern so unfortunately the bar is pretty high. I know what I need to see in a basic skill set and also what I need to see in raw talent and enthusiasm and so that’s what I look for. Licensing PM: As a designer you designed games in the ‘90s fulltime, and in the ‘00s you were on and off involved in pinball design. You’re now EVP of Game Design at Stern Pinball, which is a company that is known mainly for doing games based on licensed themes. But if you look at the 6
Early backglass sketch for Monster Bash When we did that game, the monsters were not at the height of their popularity and so Universal was just happy that anyone was willing to do anything with them. The notion of us saying: “Hey, we're going to turn these monsters into a rock band, because we're not going to be able to scare anyone with them. Let’s make them fun and let’s marry the personalities of each monster with the role that he plays in the rock band. Let’s collect the monsters and take them on tour!” That's pretty out there in the scope of the fiction of the universal monsters. I think that licenses do a lot of things. Sometimes they create a framework for the design team to work with. If you have a license where component features just fall out of the fiction, whatever that fiction is, whether it's a comic book, or film, or a rock band, then it can be a powerful outline for the design team. It's very easy to work inside of those parameters. Also note that some of the themes that we consider “original” are not exactly without precedent. For example: think of Attack From Mars. There was an entire existing body of work on the fiction of Martians coming to earth
and all of the things that they do, right down to the fact that they are green in color. There were existing films and books and images to support and define the fiction. You can say the same about High Speed or Medieval Madness or White Water or Taxi or any of the themes that we consider “non-licensed”. To our company the value of a license is that we are trying to grow the world market in pinball.We cannot make niche pinball.We have to use themes that appeal to the broadest universal audience; universal in age, universal in demographics, and universal geographically. Sometimes we take chances. We weren't sure how AC/DC was going to be received.We were all fans and we have an affinity for the music, but is mom going to let AC/DC into the house? We didn't know. It turns out that it was a really good bet but there was some risk involved. You look at something like the Avengers and it's a no brainer if you look at the earnings from the film, look at what the movie company spent on it, look at the mythos and history of the characters and you say: “I can probably do something with this.” PM: But with Avengers you couldn’t do something like you did on Monster Bash. Didn't you had to stick to the movie? GG: I had to be true to the fiction and the brand; I didn't have to stick to the movie. As you know, I didn't stick to the movie. I only used the visuals from the movie. Realize that I grew up with the fiction from the time I was ten, so I was really familiar with it. I knew all of the characters and the stories. I knew that one of the threads in the storyline of the Avengers is that all of these superheroes also have super egos. And it's always a challenge, in fact it’s part of Avenger's mythos that the Avengers fight amongst themselves and that there is a huge struggle for them to come together into a cohesive team. Part of the mythos is to assemble the Avengers in order to focus the Avengers on a common enemy. If you analyze the game, the majority of the game is not about any of the movie's storyline; it's about assembling the Avengers and focusing them on the enemy. We picked up certain things from the film; the Tesseract seemed like an interesting device so we selected it. I don't want to turn this interview into a conversation about the Avengers, or my game designs. I want to go back to your question about creative freedom within the licenses. Yes, the licenses bring with them some limitations, some more than others. If you look at our licenses relative to the music games, they were pretty easy going. In the case of Metallica we had huge participation from the band and any time that you have a licensor that is committed to helping you make a great product then you stand a much better chance of making a great product. However, the appropriate participation requires mutual respect. We would never tell Metallica how to make great music and they in turn would never tell us how to make great pinball games. So, the licenses bring instant recognition and curb appeal.When somebody approaches the game,
The Avengers Pro playfield, designed by George Gomez that person knows what that game's going to be about. They may not understand the rules, they may not know the nuts and bolts of it, but they have a general idea. When I'm walking up to Iron Man, I kind of know what it’s about. The licenses also bring with them publicity and advertisement that we couldn’t otherwise afford. The product development guys love to do original themes because they bring tremendous creative freedom. The enthusiast market loves them because it’s something new and discovery can be fun. PM: It’s a gamble. GG: It's a much greater gamble. We have to carefully control the moves we make. PM: You mentioned you guys didn’t know how AC/DC would be received. After that you did 7
Metallica of which the LE model sold out in a few hours, which apparently wasn’t anticipated as well. Then with Star Trek the number of LE’s was increased from 500 to 799. However, Star Trek fans are a completely different demographic than fans of Metallica. I can easily see some Metallica fans looking to buy a pinball machine of their favorite band. Star Trek fans buying a pinball machine? That doesn’t seem so likely. Increasing the number of LE’s for Star Trek after being too short on Metallica doesn’t seem very logical to some and got huge heat on the various online forums. Some feel it looks like a corporate answer to just looking at some numbers and not so much at the demographics. “We could have sold more LE’s, so we’re gonna make more LE’s.” Should we be worried? GG: Well every one of the Star Treks was quickly snapped up so it looks like we were pretty much right on with the number. PM: Speaking of online forums, there is one topic that is debated very heavily: the incomplete code of pinball games. Not just by Stern, but since World Poker Tour Stern has build quite a history when it comes to games not being completed softwarewise. Lately we have seen some big software updates. Is this the result of extra programmers being hired? Or are they more been busy with the new platform? What is you view on this? Is it correct that people expect, just like with video games, that the software it runs on is complete? GG: I believe that the software should be complete and we try very hard to make it so. Updates are a part of the world we live in. Everything from your phone to your cable box gets new features, bug fixes and added functionality on a regular basis. Boutique shops PM:While Stern has been recovering since ‘08, we've also seen another movement in the pinball industry and that is more and more boutique shops popping up. Some are focusing on just doing small runs and happy doing that. Others are really trying to become as big as Stern or even bigger. How does that affect your position in Stern and the decisions that you have to face in terms of game designs? Does that mean that you need to do more, or extra? Or is it no concern? GG: I think that the positive part of the boutique efforts is that they are indicative of the interest in pinball and that people want new and different pinball machines. I've told all my guys that we have to keep our eye on the ball, meaning our business. We have to focus on our efforts. What we have in our company is an opportunity to make great games. And not only great games but great games that we want to make. So if somebody else wants to make some other game, that's OK with us. What you've seen in the past two and a half years is the personalities of our 8
designers represented in the products. No one stood over my shoulder and told me to make Avengers something other than what I wanted.What that means is that I had a tremendous amount of freedom in making Avengers, and John Borg had a tremendous amount of freedom in making Metallica, and Steve Ritchie had a tremendous amount of freedom in making AC/DC and Star Trek. So I try to provide an environment where these guys can be who they are, and they can make what they make. We try hard to deliver on our promises, sometimes it takes us longer than we’d like and we’re far from perfect but we are conscious and aware of our shortcomings and we are constantly trying to improve. PM: OK, but if the competition starts using new technologies, does that mean that you have to look into these sooner than you may have planned? GG: At this point in time I haven't seen much in terms of new technology.We saw video displays in backboxes a long time ago; look up Baby Pac-man and Granny and the Gators from Bally. The fact that in that particular moment in time they were CRTs and today they're LCDs, that's not exactly a new break thru in pinball technology; it just happens to be the video display choice of our era. The integration of a new content interactive medium with the game of pinball has yet to surpass my own effort at Williams with Pinball 2000 back in 1999. Pinball 2000 had the only truly game integrated, ball interactive video display in the history of the game. You hit a virtual Martian standing on the surface of the playfield with a real pinball and there was instant cause and effect; that’s feedback and everything else is once removed. PM: Gary Stern, the president of Stern Pinball, has been in the industry forever. You've been brought in and Executive Vice President of Game Design is your current position. Gary's 69. There are rumors that once Gary steps aside, you'll be President, is that correct? GG: Gary's got a lot of energy. Even if Gary talks about stepping down, the reality is that I have a hard time envisioning Gary ever completely being out of the company. He may become chairman emeritus or something and someone else will run the day to day operations of the company but I think that we have a long way to go before Gary decides to step away. The executive team makes decisions about what the company does and how the company runs. I enjoy participating in those decisions. That team of guys sets the direction and strategy for the company. I'll tell you that I love my job. It’s exciting and I am in the eye of the storm. I don't sit much at my desk. The problems I face on a day to day basis are so diverse, so different. Sometimes I'm down in the dirt with the dev teams working on something and sometimes I'm dealing with some vendor issue, or a manufacturing problem, or a supply problem, or a material problem, or a testing issue. So it's really kind of whirlwind days. Sometimes they bring a lot of stress,
but I think someday I'm going to look back on this time and I’m going to go, “Wow, that was an exciting time, all that stuff that was going on at that place, and all of the things that we were doing.” PM: After the economic downfall of ’08 Stern teamed up with an investment company. Is it easy to work with them? GG:When the business got in trouble due to the crash of 2008, Gary took on some partners. They're real business guys and they have brought professional business management and perspective to the company. Gary has a legendary history in pinball manufacturing and he has a comprehensive understanding of the traditional aspects of the business. These guys brought a new perspective on how to run the day-to-day operations of the company and the vision of a long term performance strategy. Initially they were not pinball guys; however they've been quickly becoming pinball guys. They listen very carefully and they try to understand the things that they don't understand and they defer to us in terms of the pinball decisions. They've been instrumental in mapping the strategy for the company over the course of the next ten years. We don’t operate in chaos. We drive to a plan and we've been hitting our plan over the course of the last few years. It is the ability to drive to the plan and execute that has made us profitable and successful and that's what they've brought to it. PM: So the company became healthier financially so to speak? GG: Absolutely. PM: Stern’s company policy for years has been that you don't talk about what's coming up next. 50 years of Mustang was announced unexpectedly in the beginning of December and the game premiered in January 2014. Is this a sign of changes in the way you will be marketing your product? Can you say something about the
long-termvision for the company? GG: The clearest way to define the long-term vision of the company is that we're a pinball company. That shouldn't be a big surprise to you. So we're going into new markets, developing new product strategies, new business initiatives, and new partnerships. PM: Can you define these new markets? GG:Well, it’s very simple, you saw us experiment with retail with The Pin. You'll see more efforts in similar areas and you may see other initiatives to grow the hobby market. PM:With all the limited editions coming out during the last few years the hobbyists, who are actively represented online, may have gotten the idea that Stern is more and more about the home user. While the coin-op or distributor market is still important, it may seem that home users are currently the core market. GG: They're a part of the market and they are close to us because some of us are just like them in that we love pinball, we collect it, some of our dev guys are ranked tournament players, we mod our games and we relate to many of the elements of the hobby. You must also realize that a very large part of our business, especially in foreign markets, is commercial operation. As I mentioned early on in this interview, we are very, very interested in commercial pinball in addition to the hobbyist. I mean the guy walking into a location, finding a pinball machine and playing it at that location. We are very involved with the barcades back home; it’s a trend that's sweeping the country. We have strong relationships with the locations in Chicago. We love those situations because it’s a new vision on a commercial pay for play environment and that’s where we all came from. On the enthusiast side the Limited Editions took on a life of their own and we have a much better understanding of how to market them and how to structure that business as a product line than we did three years ago. We will continue to evolve both
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George playing The Transformers Pin at CES 2013. In the mean time the backbox has been redesigned. elements of our business along with developing many new ones because it is vital to our continued growth and success. The Pin PM: The Pin is Stern’s attempt to attract more home users to gain interest in pinball. I’ve spoken with several retailers of regular Stern games and they don’t understand why The Pin ended up looking like it does. According to them the cabinet of such game should be the same as the professional models. If you want to lower costs, that should be done on the playfield. They feel there is a whole group of people that would just be happy with a few bumpers, slingshots, targets, a ramp and some flippers at the bottom, but still have the appearance of a real pinball machine – not a toy. Is that something for you to consider? It seems highly unlikely the majority of the costs of The Pin are determined by the cabinet. Is The Pin still a current product? GG: The design decisions for the cabinet were based on the ability to ship the game in a retail scenario, such as via UPS. In a consumer environment you need to eliminate 10
the obstacles of weight and scale in order to increase the number of potential homes that will accept it. In terms of the appearance; none of the consumer products that you interact with day to day look like the products from the 1930’s and neither should a pinball machine. The last time I looked, pinball was a big toy, so telling me it looks like a toy doesn’t exactly disappoint me. The game also pioneered numerous technologies that allowed us to explore new materials, electronics, finishes and production techniques in a volume situation. In terms of the cost of the product, it’s naïve to think that strictly removing playfield components would allow you to make a commercial game at the cost of goods of The Pin. Every component in the system had to be analyzed and designed to meet the performance targets. And those targets were incredibly demanding; play performance, cost, weight, consumer safety, emissions compliance, retailer requirements, etc. Most importantly we had to preserve the feel of a Stern Pinball; things like flipper response times, our commercial durability specs, a full LED system, a true multi-ball, and a variety of traditional pinball features like targets, ramps and pop bumpers. Yes, The Pin is still in the product line and the line is growing. <<<
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