Conversation between Wing Po So and Yuanyu Li
蘇詠寶與李沅鈺的對話
14 March 2025, Para Site
2025年3月14日，Para Site
Yuanyu Li (YL): Could you please tell us where the Chinese medicine drawers come from, and how you collected them? What is the story behind them?
李沅鈺：能否說明這些百子櫃的來源和收集過程？背後有什麼故事？
Wing Po So (WPS): These drawers were collected from a now-closed pharmacy in Tsuen Wan. I feel a deep connection to that pharmacy because it was a generational family business, much like my own family’s pharmacy. I understand very well how precious these drawers are they hold the essence of the pharmacy and carry the family history within them. Our family pharmacy also had a similar experience; we closed our business in 2012, but we kept all the drawers in our 400-square-foot apartment, where they took up almost the entire space. We lived surrounded by them for about 3 to 4 months. But my parents couldn’t bear to live without the shop because it is such a big part of their lives. So, we reopened it in Sai Ying Pun. That is also when I started incorporating natural materials into my artistic practice.
蘇詠寶：這些百子櫃來自荃灣 間已結業的藥房。我對那間藥房有深厚情感，因為它和我家族的 藥房 樣是世代相傳的生意。我深知這些櫃子的珍貴 它們承載着藥房精髓與家族歷史。我們 家族的藥房也有類似經歷：2012年結業時，所有百子櫃被保留在我們家400平方呎的單位內，幾 乎佔滿整個空間。我們與它們共同生活了約三至四個月，但父母始終無法割捨藥房，畢竟是他們 生活的重要部分。最終我們在西營盤重開藥房，而我也從那時開始將天然材料融入藝術創作。
The Tsuen Wan pharmacy was introduced to me by a vintage shop owner whose shop is in the same building as my studio. We often collaborate and communicate, and they told me about this pharmacy closing down. They wanted to check it out because, of course, they collect vintage items. But in Hong Kong, nobody really wants to take these drawers, unless they have a large house. I felt an urgency to preserve them, and I have always wanted to repurpose them in my practice. That was two years ago, and the idea has stayed with me. This exhibition gave me the perfect opportunity to include the drawers in my work.
荃灣那間藥房是由 位古董店店主介紹的，他的店舖與我的工作室在同 棟大廈。我們經常合作 交流，他告知我藥房結業的消息。他想去看看，因為畢竟他是收集古董的。考慮到香港甚少人會 保留這些櫃子，除非居所寬敞。當時我迫切希望保存它們，並 直想將它們重新應用於創作。這 個念頭醞釀了兩年，今次展覽正好提供實踐機會。
YL: I still remember when I first visited your studio where the drawers are stacked neatly. And this is the first time you incorporate drawers into your artwork, so what drew you to use them as a material and how did you conceptualise the drawers in your practice?
李：我仍記得首次參觀你工作室時，這些百子櫃被整齊疊放。這次是你首次將它們融入作品，為何 選擇這種材料？如何將其概念化？
WPS: To me, the drawers are not just containers for ingredients and materials; they carry a long history, memories, traces, and even the sounds and the movement. I can imagine so much through these drawers. I wanted to reflect all these elements in my work. This is the first time I have used them in my artwork, and I also used glass containers that I collected from the same pharmacy.
蘇：對我而言，百子櫃不僅是儲存藥材的容器，更承載悠長歷史、記憶、痕跡，甚至聲響與動態。透
過它們能引發豐富想像，而我想在作品中反映這些元素。這是我首次於作品內運用百子櫃，除此 之外，還使用了從同 藥房收集的玻璃瓶。
YL: In many of our conversations, we have discussed a framework for this exhibition. Initially, we viewed the Chinese medicine drawers as containers that hold individual works, creating space for different events to unfold They also bear witness to history through the traces, marks, and textures on them telling the story of Hong Kong’s pharmacies, which are closing down and undergoing shifts in their dynamics. Yet, despite these changes, the knowledge they carry continues to be passed down through generations
李：在我們多次討論過今次展覽的框架。起初，我們將百子櫃視為承載獨立作品的容器，為不同事 件提供發生空間；同時它們亦透過表面痕跡、紋理見證歷史 訴說香港藥房結業潮與行業生態 轉變的故事。然而即便環境變遷，櫃中承載的知識仍持續跨代流傳。
WPS: Yes, they are like machines that generate and transform knowledge, just like the drawers
themselves, which are used in different ways for different medicines and plants. There is a deep personal connection with these drawers for us.
蘇：對，它們猶如生成與轉化知識的機器。就像百子櫃本身因應不同藥材被重新配置使用，我們與 這些櫃子之間亦存在深刻的個人聯繫。
YL: The function of the drawers is clear to most viewers, but they also carry personal knowledge and history that can only be fully understood by a specific group of people.
李：對觀眾而言，百子櫃的功能性顯而易見，但它們同時蘊含僅特定群體才能完全理解的個人歷 史與知識。
WPS: Yes, and there is also the mechanical aspect of the drawers, which reflects the daily interactions of the users. For example, how my parents would open and close the drawers, moving up and down, left and right. The drawers were spread out across our store, constantly creating sound and movement. The time and effort spent processing the materials it is all like the internal workings of a machine. I really wanted to recreate that experience.
蘇：正是如此。百子櫃的機械性亦反映使用者的日常互動 例如我父母如何開關櫃子、上下左右 移動取藥。藥房內百子櫃分佈各處，持續產生聲響與動態；處理藥材耗費的時間精力，儼如機器內 部運作。我極力想重現這種體驗。
YL: In this exhibition, we can see the drawers from different angles and in more detail. This also ties into how you are trying to transform a 2D surface into a more dimensional experience. The structure holding the drawers together is also part of this idea This structure seems to reference the concept of Game of Life. Could you explain this concept further? And how does it influence the work you have created for the exhibition?
李：展覽中，觀眾能從多角度細察百子櫃結構。這亦呼應你將二維平面轉化為立體體驗的嘗試，而 固定百子櫃的支架設計似乎參考了「生命遊戲」（Game of Life）概念。能否進 步闡釋此概念如何 影響作品創作？
WPS: I became really fascinated by the Game of Life because I am amazed by the way its simple rules create incredibly complex interactions and levels of learning
蘇：「生命遊戲」最令我着迷之處，在於其簡單規則竟能衍生極複雜的互動與學習層次。
YL: Does anyone know Game of Life? It is a very simple system invented by John Conway, an English mathematician. He created this automated, zero-player game, which means no player is needed to actively play the game. Conway established four basic rules, and the game consists of a grid with different blocks. You can place seeds within this grid, and that is the only action required. After that, you leave the game to evolve on its own. The four rules determine whether the seeds stay alive, duplicate, grow, or die (disappear). This system is a metaphor for different situations in life. The structures in this exhibition are inspired by this concept.
李：「生命遊戲」是英國數學家約翰 康威（John Conway）設計的自動化零玩家遊戲，僅需在網格中 放置「種子」後任其演化。四條基礎規則決定種子存續、繁殖、擴張或消亡（消失），此系統常被喻 為生命情境的隱喻。展覽結構正受此概念啟發。
WPS: It is about this form and how things generate and disappear. I feel it reflects the essence of Chinese medicine and the cycles of nature. I have always been fascinated by writing in an orderly way, as well as the categorisation of different materials. The idea of systems, like the three different components pixels, forms appeals to me That is why I see the various genres as pixels, and I approach them like a game. I try to fit things within these pixels, imagining them as constantly changing and transforming.
蘇：這關乎形態的生滅循環，我認為它呼應中醫藥與自然界的週期性。我一直着迷於有序書寫與 物料分類。系統性概念，如像素、形態等，尤其吸引我。因此我將不同類型視作像素，以遊戲化方 式處理 嘗試將事物嵌入這些「像素」中，想像其不斷變形的過程。
YL: In this exhibition, many of the individual works reflect different aspects of the system, and you can find subtle references to the Game of Life within them The entire installation, including its setup and process, was designed using small sticks and 3D prints to create the structure’s model. We had to make a lot of improvisations as we built the structure to larger sizes. The whole process felt very evolving, almost like growth How do you feel about the process?
李：展覽中多件獨立作品皆反映系統的不同面向，並暗藏「生命遊戲」的隱喻。整個裝置從結構建 模（使用小木棒與3D打印）到放大組裝過程，需不斷即興調整，猶如生物生長般持續演化。你對這 種創作過程有何感受？
WPS: I really enjoyed the building process, especially this zero-to-ten model-making approach. We started by creating the structure, and then I tried to fit the drawers into it according to the design. The whole model was reworked after computation. When I created the 3D architectural drawings, the actual setup required further adjustments. We adapted everything to the actual size of the exhibition space, placing the drawers according to the system of the structure and figuring out how to assemble them. It was a very systematic process.
蘇：我十分享受搭建過程，尤其是這種「從零到十」的模型製作方式。我們先建構基礎框架，再按設 計將櫃子逐 嵌入。整個模型經數碼運算後重新調整，即便已完成3D建築圖紙，實際組裝時仍需 進一步修改。我們配合展場空間的真實尺寸，根據結構系統定位，並反覆測試組裝方式，過程極 具系統性。
YL: I think, based on that, we follow certain rules, but there are also many unexpected factors that arise during the installation process. We have to figure out how to adapt and keep shifting paths along the way
李：我認為，儘管遵循既定規則，佈展過程仍會出現許多變數，迫使我們不斷調整方法以適應實際 情況。
WPS: Yes, and that is the idea behind the work as well.
蘇：沒錯，這正呼應作品的核心理念。
YL: Let’s talk about the works in the exhibition In your previous work, you often used Chinese medicine materials, and in this exhibition, you incorporate natural organic elements alongside many human-made technological materials. What were your considerations behind this combination?
李：談談展覽中的作品吧。過往你常使用中藥材，這次卻結合天然有機物與人造科技物料，背後的 考量是什麼？
WPS: When I first started using medicinal materials, I was already thinking about movement and kinetics. In this work, I imagine an ongoing process, reflecting the daily interactions with materials that are always in a state of motion. It also connects to the cycle of life, which has its own momentum. I was drawn to technology and wanted to create plastic sheets that would fall off the seats. I enjoy learning new things, and using simple technology allows me to create something that I can manage on my own. It is not about working at a factory level. Instead, I adjust things through my own research, experimenting little by little with different materials and motors. This learning process is something I really enjoy, and it also reflects the experimental elements in my work.
蘇：最初選用藥材時，我已着眼於「動態」概念。這次創作中，我試圖呈現 種持續進行的過程來反 映我們與物料的日常互動 我們始終處於運動狀態，並與生命週期的自有動能連結。我對科技 深感興趣，因此製作會從座椅脫落的膠片。我享受學習新事物，運用簡易科技能讓我獨立完成創 作，無需工廠級生產。透過自主研究逐步調整，實驗不同物料與馬達的搭配 這種學習過程本 身已充滿趣味，亦體現作品的實驗性。
YL: As you mentioned earlier, regarding 3D printing, all the colorful 3D-printed objects in the exhibition were not intentionally created by you, but are actually leftovers from the supporting systems used in factories to print other objects. These objects, carrying a sense of negativity, are repurposed for the exhibition. They resemble fruits and other materials that were left behind, unmarked Using them is an act of preserving the shape of things What are your thoughts on this?
李：如你所述，展覽中所有彩色3D打印物實為工廠打印其他物件時殘留的支撐結構。這些被視為 「廢料」的物件經改造後重獲意義，它們形似未標記的果實與殘留物，使用它們猶如保存事物形 骸。你對此有何看法？
WPS: When you walk into the space, you will notice that many of the drawers have holes in them, which have actually been eaten by worms. This reflects the history and traces of existence, and the concept of non-existence created by existence itself
蘇：當你步入展覽空間，會發現許多抽屜佈滿蟲蛀孔洞。這正反映存在與消逝的歷史痕跡 「存 在」本身創造出「虛無」的概念。
YL: This space once held something, but has been unintentionally preserved—there are many things we can’t see. You also mentioned the process of breaking things down and reassembling them, which you do with various objects. Would you like to talk more about the concept of construction and reconstruction in your practice?
李：此處曾承載某物，卻在無意間被保存；許多事物已不可見。你也提及「分解與重組」的創作手法， 並將其應用於各類物件。能否進一步闡釋你實踐中「建構與再建構」的概念？
WPS: I think part of this comes from my family background, where we are always constructing and deconstructing. It is cyclical. We often keep things like the skin and seeds because they are useful. For example, when we eat bananas, we save the peel, then place it on the fire and the peel turns to charcoal. Another example is pomelo. We save the skin and seeds, then I turn them into a skeleton, which I later reassemble. After some time, I placed the skeleton into a glass jar. So, the jars in this exhibition carry a very personal emotion for me. The drawers and glass jars all have histories; you can trace human marks and interactions. I see these containers as having a human touch, and I imagine the people who used them. I think of seeds, and the afterlife of seeds, as part of that cycle.
蘇：這種創作理念部分源自我的家庭背景 我們總在循環往復地建構與解構。例如吃香蕉時保 留果皮，將其炙烤成炭；又或保存柚子皮與種子，重組為骨架後封存於玻璃樽。展覽中的玻璃器皿 承載着極私密的情感，百子櫃與樽罐皆留有使用痕跡，可追溯人與物互動的歷史。我視這些容器 為生命週期的載體，想像種子在消亡與重生間的流轉。
YL: A very important aspect of this exhibition is movement. There are many hidden movements within the space. For instance, the kinetic works create a continuous flow of motion. We see gestures made by hands in various actions, the way people process Chinese medicine. There is a perpetual movement, and you can also hear the sounds, such as the abalone shells bouncing in the drawers. There are different sounds that you can hear throughout the space, which create a breezy, rhythmic feeling. It is almost as if you are breathing in and out—this too is a form of movement. I think there is another layer of movement that is completed by the audience themselves. When we enter the gallery, we need to move our bodies—looking up, down, left, or right—to see the works. This is similar to what happens in a pharmacy, where the pharmacist
moves in a similar way when bringing you your prescription. What are your thoughts on the contrast between movement and the static nature of the installation in this exhibition?
李：「運動」為是次展覽的關鍵之一。空間內隱藏着許多動靜。例如，動態作品創造了連續的運動。
我們看到人們所做的各種手勢，這是人們加工中藥的方式。這裡有永恆的運動，你還可以聽到聲 音，例如鮑魚殼在百子櫃裡彈跳的聲音。整個空間裡你可以聽到不同的聲音，營造出輕鬆、有節 奏的感覺。這幾乎就像你在呼吸一樣 這也是一種運動形式。我認為還有另一層動作是由觀眾
自己完成的。當我們進入展場時，我們需要移動身體 向上、向下、向左或向右 來觀看作 品。這與藥房中發生的情況類似，藥師在給您處方時會採取類似的動作。你如何看待本次展覽中 裝置運動與靜態的對比？
WPS: Yes, there is both visible and invisible movement. The visible movements include handling and sorting different materials. But there are also invisible movements, controlled by unseen forces, like the magnetic forces in space or the internal movement of machines that we can’t see. The sounds help to create an imagined sense of movement, influencing how we interact with the work.
蘇：沒錯，動態分為可見與不可見。可見如藥材分揀的物理動作；不可見如磁力驅動或機械內部運 作，需透過聲音誘發想像。觀眾的身體介入 仰視、俯身 亦延伸了藥房抓藥的空間經驗，形 成多重動態維度。
YL: The movement can also be seen as an ongoing and evolving process, constantly changing over time. Let’s talk about the exhibition title, Take Turns. Could you share the story behind it?
李：展覽題為「迭步」（Take Turns），靈感是否與「生命遊戲」的交互規則相關？
WPS: The title is inspired by the Game of Life, where I wanted to incorporate the element of the game into the concept. The playfulness of the game also relates to my art practice. Additionally, it reflects the collaborative energy present in the exhibition—how materials are passed down through generations, carrying knowledge within the drawers. The idea of interconnection is integral to both the art-making process and the science behind it.
蘇：標題既呼應遊戲中的生滅循環，亦隱喻知識的跨代傳遞 如百子櫃承載的藥學智慧，或團隊 協力的創作過程。這種「輪替」不僅是狀態轉換，更是共生關係的體現。
YL: I think we arrived at the title quite naturally, after considering several other options. Taking turns typically involves more than one party, like you, me, and others as well. It implies shared responsibility—caring for each other, collaborating, and being together. There is always a sense of togetherness when we talk about taking turns. It also speaks to shifting between different states. And, of course, knowledge being passed down from generation to generation.
李：在考慮了其他幾個選擇之後，我們自然就確定了這個標題。「輪替」通常涉及多方，像你、我， 還有其他人。它意味着共同的責任 互相關心、合作和團結。當我們談論輪替時，總會有一種團 結的感覺。它也說明了不同狀態之間的轉變。當然，知識也會代代傳承下去。
WPS: Exactly, it is like the different collaborators in my studio, where we share knowledge and ideas. This is naturally reflected in my artistic progress. I am fortunate to receive positive feedback from my surroundings and culture, which has been a really enriching experience for me in Hong Kong.
蘇：確實，它就像我工作室裡的不同合作者，我們分享知識和想法。這自然也反映在我的藝術進步 上。我很幸運能從周圍的環境和文化中得到正面的回饋，這對我在香港來說是一次非常豐富的經 驗。
YL: We also discussed the idea of knowledge being passed down, which aligns with the synergy in Chinese medicine. As you mentioned earlier, Chinese medicine is based on individual experiences and the accumulation of knowledge passed down through generations and families. In a way, the exhibition mirrors this process, sharing knowledge and encapsulating the concept behind the title.
李：我們也討論了知識傳承的理念，這與中醫的協同作用一致。正如你之前提到，中醫是基於個人 經驗以及世代相傳的知識累積。從某種程度上來說，展覽反映了這個過程，分享知識並概括標題 背後的概念。
WPS: I would like to thank my team as well—Billy and Yuanyu, who have been the perfect collaborators, and also the Para Site team and the interns. This project wouldn't have been possible without these amazing people.
蘇：我要感謝團隊成員 Billy與沅鈺的完美協作，Para Site以及團隊與實習生的支持。此項目凝 聚了眾人智慧，如同百子櫃中的每一味藥材，缺一不可。
YL: It has been such an interesting journey working on this project. There have been so many hybrid conversations, and it is wonderful to see the outcomes of this work today.
李：這次合作猶如 趟充滿雜糅對話的旅程，最終成果令人欣喜。
Transcribed by Jiu Yeuk Tung, Ng Ching Yee, Cheung Choi Hei in April 2025
由趙若彤、吳靜而、張在熙於 2025 年 4 月轉錄