Outlier Magazine Autumn 2025 by outlier-magazine

OUTLIER

EDITORIAL

PUBLISHER&

EDITOR-IN-CHIEF

SCOTTMACGREGOR

MANAGINGEDITOR

KATHYLOVE

COPYEDITOR

MELISSACOHEN

CONTENT&ARTDIRECTOR

VICTORIAWALLING

PHOTOGRAPHER LISABOUSQUET

CONTRIBUTINGWRITERS

AMANDAMCCREIGHT ANTONIONEVES JAREDARMSTRONG

PETERSCHALLER

AMANDASELLERS

CHRISSCHEMBRA

MANDOLENMULL,PH.D. KOFIDOUHADJI

CREATIVITY IS OFTEN CELEBRATED AS THE SPARK BEHIND INNOVATION, BUT ITS SIGNIFICANCE IN SHAPING OUTLIERS

Those rare individuals who stand apart from the crowd is profound and multifaceted. Outliers, as described by Malcolm Gladwell and others, are individuals who achieve extraordinary success or display remarkable uniqueness in their fields While factors like opportunity, hard work, and timing are important, creativity is the force that allows outliers to break the mold and redefine what is possible

At its core, creativity is the ability to see connections where others see none, to imagine solutions beyond conventional boundaries, and to approach problems from fresh perspectives. Outliers harness this ability, using it to challenge norms and disrupt established patterns. For example, innovators like Steve Jobs or Marie Curie did not simply follow existing paths they envisioned new possibilities and pursued them relentlessly Their creative thinking enabled them to ask questions others hadn’t considered and to experiment with ideas that seemed improbable

Moreover, creativity empowers outliers to adapt and thrive in changing environments In a world that rewards conformity, it takes courage and imagination to stand out Creative individuals are more likely to embrace risk, learn from failure, and persist in the face of skepticism. This resilience, fueled by creative thinking, is essential for anyone striving to achieve something extraordinary.

In conclusion, while many factors contribute to the making of an outlier, creativity is the distinguishing trait that enables individuals to transcend the ordinary. It is the engine of originality, the source of innovation, and the foundation upon which outliers build their remarkable achievements. Without creativity, the world would have far fewer trailblazers and far less progress

Scott MacGregor

PublisherandEditor-in-Chief

Ultimate Connector and Relationship Builder

Founder of The Outlier Project

Publisher & Editor-in-Chief of Outlier Magazine

Founder & CEO of SomethingNew LLC

4x Author of the “Standing O!” Series Record 8x Winner of the American Business Award for Innovation

What do you do for Outlier Magazine and what do you love about it?

I love our ability to celebrate the people I admire the most in life, Outliers. They are the bravest people I know.

What makes you an Outlier?

I’ve been an outlier since birth. A true born contrarian who loves rocking the boat by showing up differently.

FUN FACT:

I hit a grand slam off of Hall of Famer Jeff Bagwell and pitched a no hitter in the same game when I was in 8th grade. I later went to college with Jeff.

NOT SOMEDAY. NOW: THE CALL TO LEAD WITH CURIOSITY

By Jon Mayo

You can win... and still feel lost.

You do not need more software. You do not need another leadership book. You need something far more rare:

Clarity, yes But clarity born of curiosity, the kind that refuses to settle for speed when impact is on the line

Clarity Conviction Wholeness

Because lasting impact is not built through speed It is built through presence. And leadership is not measured by output alone. It is measured by what compounds in your absence.

Outliers are not defined by where they stand apart, but by what they stand for. So let us explore the Outlier way.

Not a hack. Not a playbook. A return.

A return to steward leadership and family with intention.

To cultivating radical curiosity that inspires generations.

This is not just the path to deeper meaning It is also the most resilient and scalable way to increase profitability, because nothing compounds like curiosity-born clarity, ownership, and empowered culture that multiplies

Because when your people are clear, equipped, and trusted, they execute faster, innovate better, and serve with deeper ownership.

Markets will shift. Tools will evolve. But the culture you create will either become your greatest asset, or your undoing.

This is why curiosity is so important, because through the pursuit of beautiful questions we identify what needs to be intentionally addressed This prepares us so that when threats loom, we do not become tense, but ready

Photocredit:JonMayo’sLinkedIn

Ready to grow

Ready to evolve

Ready to transform challenges into opportunities.

This is the leadership I train. This is the legacy I live. And when curiosity strikes, I follow it into conversation with those willing to build what others only admire.

Because what if the highest-performing cultures in the world were not forged by pressure, but by curiosity, the desire to understand before demanding, to lead with more than control, to build not just fast but forever?

For if the obstacle is the way, we must be WayMakers.

Not someday. Now.

Lead accordingly.

“Outliers are not defined by where they stand apart, but by what they stand for.”

-Jon Mayo

Photocredit:jonmayocom

Photocredit:jonmayocom

SYOVATA EDARI with...

Founder of CocoVaa Chocolatier, James Beard Semi-Finalist, and 5x Gold Medalist with 30 Academy of Chocolate Awards

Q:Howhascuriosityplayeda roleinyourbusinessandlife?

Curiosityismyfoundation.I’vealways beendriventoknow notjustinan intellectualsense,butinavisceral, sensoryway That’swhyIstudiedlaw That’swhyIbecameatraveler.That’s whyIbecameamaker.Mycuriosity movesthroughallfivesenses,but tasteiswhereitlandsandtransforms. WhenIbecameachocolatier,Iwasn’t justfollowingapassion.Iwasalso pursuingquestions.Whatdoes saffronfeellikeonthetongue?How doescardamomunlockmemory? Whathappenswhenwestop flatteningflavorintowhat’sfamiliar andinsteadletpeopleexperience somethingtheydidn’texpecttolove?

Q:YouwenttotheUniversity ofWisconsinLawSchooland wereaverysuccessfultrial attorneyfortwodecades. Whatdidyouloveaboutthat jobandwhatturnedyou towardsleavingwhatwasa successfulcareer? WhatIlovedwasadvocating. Gettingintothecourtroomand dismantlingnarrativesthatwere

unjust or dishonest. I loved giving people back their dignity through truth But law is a system rooted in punishment, not healing. I needed to build, not just defend.

Chocolate became a new form of advocacy this time, through the senses. The courtroom demanded logic; chocolate invited emotion. It let me speak to people in a different language, one that goes past argument and lands in the nervous system, in memory, in pleasure. It’s still about justice, but now, it’s justice through joy, flavor, and inclusion

Photocredit:MarraTeniente

Q:Youcreatedanamazing companycalledCocoVaa Chocolatier.Tellusaboutyour dreamsforthatbusiness.

Mydreamistodemocratizeflavor.I wanttobreaktheideathatbeauty, nuance,andculturalrichnessare luxuriesreservedforthefew.

Takesaffron manypeopleintheUS havenevertastedit,yetit’soneof theoldesthealingspicesinthe world.It’sanaturalantidepressant, usedforcenturiestoelevatemood andcalmthespirit.Iuseitboldly,not toimpress,buttoempower.I currentlysourcesaffronfroma partnerfromAfghanistanbasedin Chicago-HeratSpice.Asmuchas possibleItrytoformpersonalbonds withmysupplierssoI’mfully educatedabouttheingredientsI workwithandthepeoplebehind them.

EveryingredientIusetellsastory.I wantpeopletotastesomething beautifulandlearnsomethingvital: aboutthemselves,abouthistory, abouthealingandaboutthepeople aroundtheplanetwhowe’reall interconnectedwith

Thisisn’tjustdessert.It’saccess.It’s education.It’sradicalsensoryequity. It’sallmeanttofreeyourtastebuds whileconnectingyoutotheworld

Q:Yousaychocolateismore thananindulgence.It'sabout storytellingandameansto preservehistory.Tellusmore aboutthat.

Tasteismemory.It’sculturallineage. It’sresistance.Chocolatehasa colonialpast itwasstolen, monetized,industrialized butitalso hasrootsinsacredritualsand indigenousmedicine.Iusechocolate totellstoriesthatindustrialbrands haveerased.

EveryflavorIbuildisintentional WhenIputlemongrassorroseor

ube in a bonbon, I’m trying to restore dignity to ingredients that have been exoticized or ignored in the west. And I’m telling my own story of being the daughter of an African immigrant, of being a single mom in search of economic sovereignty, of standing in courtrooms fighting to uphold the Constitution, of walking through spice markets in Kenya or of tasting my way through every chocolaterie in Paris. This is taste as testimony.

Q:Youbelieveinethical sourcing.Whyisthatso important?Andwhatarethe stepsyoutaketomakesure thatthathappens?

Becausebeautybuiltonexploitation isn’tbeautiful.It’stheft.Ican’ttalk aboutjusticeinonebreathand ignoreinjusticeinthenext.Ethical sourcingisnon-negotiable Iaskhard questionsofmysuppliers Ilookfor certifications,butIalsolookfor values.Ipartnerwithfarmsandcoopsthatunderstandthespiritualand culturalvalueofthecropstheygrow

Takevanilla.It’severywhere ice cream,perfume,bakedgoods but mostpeoplehavenoideathata12year-oldenslavedBlackchildnamed EdmondAlbiusmadeitpossible In 1841,onRéunionIsland,he discoveredhowtohand-pollinatethe vanillaorchid abreakthroughthat

revolutionized the global spice trade Colonizers made fortunes. Edmond died in poverty. His name was almost erased from history.

So when I use vanilla, I speak his name. I honor his brilliance. I reclaim what was commodified and stripped of its humanity. That’s what ethical sourcing looks like It's not just fair trade, it's also truth-telling.

And let’s be honest: in a world driven by corporate greed and supply chains built on hidden suffering, none of us have perfectly clean hands. Even paying taxes funds injustice. Running a business in this world means confronting impossible choices. But that’s not an excuse, it’s a call to consciousness.

We have a moral obligation to see the systems that harm us and each other and to fight like hell against them in every way we can. That

means sourcingwithintention,and educatingourconsumers That'sjust asimportantasethicalsourcing

Q:Youarewildlycreativewith productssuchassaffroninfusedbonbons,blueberry piebonbons,and collaborationswithoneofthe world'smost-awarded liqueurs,Sorel.Wheredoes thatcreativitycomefrom?

Itcomesfromlivingbetween,inside andoutsidemanyworlds I’venever beenfullyinsideanyonebox.SoI drawfromallofit.Thatgivesmea widelensandadeepwell.Imight pullfromchildhoodmemoriesone dayandancientspiceroutesthe next.

Saffronandblueberrypiemayseem worldsapart,butinmykitchenthey coexist,becausethat’swhoweare Thiscountrytalksaboutbeinga meltingpot,butinrealityittriesto homogenizeeverything.Iresistthat, andsoshouldyou.Imagineaworld withnoflavor Spiced,storied,and layered:mybonbonstellthetruth thatAmericanhistoryhasalways beenmorethanonenote.

Q:Yourdedicationtoyour craftseemstoknowno bounds.You'vestudiedinItaly andFrancewiththebestof thebest.Whatwerethose

experienceslike?

Theywerehumblingandlife changing.Itrainedinkitchensbuilt oncenturiesoftradition,where precisionissacredandtechniqueis gospel I’vehadsomeofthebest training.Ilearnedthescience the temperpoints,thecrystalline structure,thealchemyoffatand sugar.ButthemostvaluablethingI broughtbackwasn’ttechnique It wastheconvictiontotrustmyown voice.

Ididn’tgotoFranceorItalyto becomeareplicaofsomeoneelse’s legacy.IwenttostudytherulessoI couldbreakthemwithpurpose.I absorbedeverythingIcould,and thenIcamehomeandbeganto buildsomethingthat’sneverexisted

before.

Thisisnotaboutmimicry, assimilation,orperfection.It’snotto impress,buttoexpress

Q:You'vewonnumerous awards,frombeingaJames Beardsemifinalistto30 AcademyofChocolate awards,includingfivegolds. Howmeaningfularethose accomplishments?

They’remeaningfulbecausethey shatterexpectations.EveryawardI winsays:webelongheretoo.That ourflavors,ourvision,ourstoriesare notonlyvalid they’reexceptional.

Butawardsarenotthegoal.Thegoal iscreatingsomethingsotruthful,so sensory,thatitopenspeople’sminds andshiftstheirpalate.That’swhat keepsmegoing:knowingthatI’m changinghowpeopletastethe worldandmaybeintroducingthem toaworldtheymaynoteverhave otherwiseknown.Thepoweroftaste isundeniable Itcanevenchange yourentireworldview.

Q:Whichismoredifficult, beingatrialattorneyorbeing anentrepreneur?

Entrepreneurship.Withoutquestion. Thelawhadstructure,rules,anda definedarenaandevensomefree

weekends.Businessiswideopen nomap,nosafetynet,no guarantees,norealschedule.ButI alsoknowthis:Iwouldn’tbehalfthe entrepreneurIamtodayifIhadn’t beenatriallawyerfirst.

Litigationsharpenedme.Ittaught mehowtothinkstrategically,speak withprecision,andholdmyground underpressure.Ittaughtmeto preparefortheunexpected:andto movedecisivelywheneverythingis ontheline.Allofthattranslated. Everyskill,everysetback,everywin incourt noneofitwaswasted.Itall builtthefoundationIstandonnow.

Andthatappliesacrosstheboard. Whetheryouwereateacher,a server,anurse,aparent nothing

you’ve done is irrelevant Entrepreneurship pulls from all of it. It’s not about reinvention. It’s about integration.

But what makes entrepreneurship powerful isn’t just the challenge, it’s the freedom we have to choose our

path It’s the ability to own your time your vision, and set your value. It’s about economic sovereignty. It’s about building something on your own terms, without asking for permission. And once you’ve tasted that kind of freedom, there’s no going back.

What are the advantages of being an outlier?

Outliers build what others can’t even imagine. We don’t inherit paths we carve them. We’re not bound by “how it’s always been done,” because we were never invited into those rooms to begin with. That’s not a weakness. That’s freedom

Being an outlier means I get to challenge every narrow idea of what belongs: what belongs on a plate, in a space, in a story. I create without asking permission. And that creation becomes a force: something that opens doors not just for me, but for everyone who’s ever been told they’re too different, too much, too “other”

That’s why it’s so important to resist the urge to belong, especially when “belonging” means shrinking yourself to fit into a dominant narrative that was never built to include you. I’d rather stand outside and be whole than be welcomed in on someone else’s terms.

Being an outlier means I get to tell the truth through my work: through taste, through design, through defiance. I didn’t come here to fit into a system that was never made for me. I came here to build something better.

There’s nothing more cathartic than finding yourself in the presence of others who’ve also chosen to be true to themselves as opposed to assimilating They’ve embraced the very things that once made them feel like outsiders. That’s why I love The Outlier Project. It’s not just community it’s clarity, affirmation, and power.

RYAN CRONIN with...

Contemporary Artist, Public Art Visionary, Founder of CronArtUSA, Inc, with Works

Featured Coast to Coast and in Major Cultural Hubs

Q:Yourworkbalancesbold imagerywithaccessible messaging.Howdoyoudecide whichideasbecomepaintings versusthosethatinspireyour productline?

Ialwaysstartwiththepainting that'swhereeverythingbegins.Every pieceinourproductlinestartsasan originaloilpaintingonboard.Ihave neverstartedapaintingthinking"this wouldmakeakillert-shirtdesign." Thepaintinghastolive mejust wrestlingwithcolor,composition, howtheeyemovesacrossthe surface Thenlater,weworkasateamtopull frommybodyofwork,deciding whichpaintingsorelementsmight translatewellintotheproductline, consideringwhatmediumwe're workingwith.Whetherit'sour productlineorabrandcollaboration, itallstartswiththepainting.That feelsprettyuniquetome theart comesinitially,thenwefigureout howtomakeitworkcommercially.

Whataresomewaysyoukeep yourartconnectedto everydaylifeandcommunity?

I'vealwaysbeeninterestedin reachingnewaudiencesthroughmy work,andinstallingitinpublic spaceshasbeenpartofmyprocess fromearlyon.Onememorythat reallysticksoutisinstallinga32-foot paintingonconstructionscaffolding ontheLowerEastSide WhileIwas puttingitup,anironworkerstopped totalkaboutthepiece.Those experiences whereIcaninterrupt someone'sdailyroutineandget themthinkingaboutsomethingnew that'soneofthereasonsIcreate.

"IFYOU'RENOTCURIOUSABOUTWHAT'S POSSIBLE,YOU'RENOTREALLYGROWING."

-RYANCRONIN

Creating public art campaigns in response to what's happening in our community has really deepened my connection to community and my audience Over the past seven or eight years, I've worked on projects like 'Expect A Bike' a public art and bike safety campaign to encourage dialogue between cyclists and motorists, and 'The Box' a public art and health campaign created in collaboration with a doctor who focuses on early detection of cervical cancer. These campaigns show how art can create a genuine impact beyond just hanging on a wall.

Our brick and mortar space is about that same idea: connecting directly with people. It's in an open-air style market that's inviting to both the locals and tourists. We wanted a forward-facing space where we could connect with people directly

It's been amazing to witness how we've built community over the years, and one of the visual markers is the merch. We get messages all the time people sharing how they went to a party where three different strangers were wearing our t-shirts, or how they spotted someone five rows ahead on a plane wearing one of our hats. I could rattle off stories like this from people all over the world It's about meeting people where they are, whether that's walking down the street, wandering

into our shop, or recognizing each other through the work.

Q:YourmonthattheThread ArtistResidencyinSenegal seemspivotal.Howdidthat cross-culturalexperience influenceyourartisticpractice andworldview?

Itforcedmetoreexaminethe materialsIuse.Ibecameacutely awareofeverydayobjectsand materialsaroundme howtheycan becomeart Itwasalsothefirsttime I'deverbeenawayfrommyfamily thatlong,morethan30days.Having thattimeandspacetocreatefeltlike agift.

I was in creative mode all the time I didn't have to start and stop my process based on what was happening in my world, and that put me in a flow state like I hadn't experienced yet in my career

That residency also planted the seeds for Art4Lax. I shared lacrosse with the kids in the village during my stay, and they were so fired up to learn. Three years later, I returned to run a lacrosse camp, and Art4Lax became a reality. Now we're working with Le Korsa, an NGO, to support the growth of the game from within Senegal it's growing slowly, but it's happening. We are returning to Senegal in November with several members of a professional lacrosse team to run clinics for coaches and kids. We feel pretty fortunate to have such great partnerships here in the States, but also in Senegal

Q:TheCroninGalleryhas becomeastapleinNewPaltz. Whatuniquechallengesand rewardshaveyou encounteredrunningagallery inasmallHudsonValley town?

Wejustcelebratedtenyearsinthe gallerythispastMay.Whilewe'rea commercialgalleryandshop,we've alsouseditasaplatformtobuild community.

Melanie and I both come from parents who were small business owners, so we were raised watching them work but that was pretty much the extent of our business education We're self-taught entrepreneurs building something from scratch without any leg up, so it's been about staying committed and sharing a clear vision on how we want our life to be, how we want to raise our family, and the community we want around us.

Melanie is really the face of the gallery. I pop in and out, and spend my days in my studio. She's a natural connector and community organizer, so between that and having an incredible following who've been our champions every step of this journey, community building has been easy. The challenge has been figuring it out as we go but having that shared vision of what we're building together makes all the difference.

Q:Muchofyourcareerhas involvedtakingrisks.What motivatesyoutokeep pushingboundaries,both creativelyandinbusiness?

Havinganunderstandingthatwe havetoevolve ascreatives,as businesspeople,ashumansreally withtheunderstandingthatwhat worksnowmaynotworkinayearor twoyearsfromnow.Wehaveto alwaysbeflexibleandopento differentapproaches

TherearenoruleswithwhatIdoin theart-makingprocess,andI embracethatfreedomto experiment,tosucceedandfail, understandingthatit'sjustpartof theprocesstomoveforward.That samementalityappliestothe businessside,too.We'reconstantly askingourselveswhat'snext,what canwetrydifferently,andhowcan wegrowwhilestayingtruetowhat we'rebuilding.

Ithinkwhenyouacceptthatfailure isjustinformation,ittakesthefear outoftakingrisks.Everyexperiment teachesyousomething,whetherit worksoutornot.

Q:Collaboration,especially withyourwifeMelanieand withNGOs,isintegraltoyour work.Howhaspartnership shapedyourjourneyasboth

artistandentrepreneur?

I'mafirmbelieverinteam Aside frombeinganartist,I'malsoa lacrossecoach,soIunderstandhow everyonehasaroleandhowthat collectiveeffortcreatessomething biggerthanwhatanyindividualcan achievealone.

Collaborationsforceyououtofyour comfortzone.Theypushyouinto approachesyouprobablywouldn't takeifyouwereworkingbyyourself. Whetherit'sworkingwithNGOson projectsorhavingMelaniehandle thebusinesssidewhileIfocusonthe studiowork,thesepartnershipshave openeddoorsIneverwouldhave foundonmyown.

Youlearntotrustotherpeople's

Q:Yourartconfrontssocial issueswhileinvitingplay.How doyoustrikeabalance betweenprovocationand approachabilityinyour pieces?

Theintentionisn'talwaystoprovoke aspecificidea it'smoreaboutme workingthroughanidea,concept, feeling,orexperiencethat'spersonal tome.I'mnotnecessarily intentionallymakingastatement. I'mjustrespondingtotheworld aroundme,andsometimesthatcan beviewedasprovocative

Ithinktheapproachabilitycomes fromthefactthatI'mbeinghonest aboutmyownexperiencerather thantryingtotellpeoplewhatto think.Whenyou'rebeinghonestin yourresponsetosomething,people canconnectwiththatevenifthey don'tagreewithyourperspective.

Theboldcolorsandcompositional elementsdrawpeopleinfirst,and thentheycanengagewithwhatever deepermeaningmightbethere.But itstartswiththatvisualhook somethingthatmakesyouwantto expertiseandvision,whichactually makesyourownworkstronger. Whenyou'renottryingtodo everythingyourself,youcanfocuson whatyoudobestwhileotherpeople bringtheirstrengthstothetable.

Q:Whatroledoesglobal influence(forexample, projectsinSenegalorshows inMallorca)playinshaping yourNewPaltz-based practice?

Whetherit'sthehandwrittensigns andbrightcolorsIwasdrawntoin Senegal,orseeingmyworkhang alongsideBasquiatandWarholin Mallorca,theseexperiencesfeed backintoeverythingIcreate.The workbecomesricherwhenyou're constantlyexposingyourselftonew visuallanguagesandwaysofseeing.

TravelfundamentallyshapeshowI lookcloser,whetheryouendup agreeingwithitornot.

Q:You'vesaidyourfather encouragedyoutobe anything,fromthegarbage mantothepresident.Whydid youultimatelychoosetobe anartist,andhowdoesthat philosophyguideyourdaily work?

Beinganartistfoundme itwasn't reallyachoiceImade.It'sbeen somethingI'vealwayshadtodo,this instincttocreate.Irememberbeing inmydad'swoodshopasakid, scavengingscrapsandmakingboats andkeychains.Iwastransforming materialsintosomethingelsebefore IevenrealizedIwasmakingart.

Myparentsweremyfirstreal champions.Theyalwaysencouraged me,andthatphilosophymyfather had thatIcouldbeanythingfrom thegarbagemantothepresident gavemetheconfidencetotrustthis approachmakingwork.Overthe nextyear,wehavetripsplanned whereI'llbegoingtodifferent locationstocreate. Eachplaceteachesmesomething differentaboutmaterials,color,and composition.Beinginenvironments whereIhavetorespondtowhat's immediatelyaroundme,likeIdid duringtheThreadresidency,pushes theworkindirectionsIneverwould havediscoveredbystayinginmy studioinNewPaltz.

Q:Asyoulookahead,what movementsorissuesinthe artworldareinspiringyou, creativedriveIhad.Theynever questionedwhetherartwasa'real' careerorpushedmetoward somethingmoretraditional.

Thatencouragementguidesmy dailyworkbecauseIapproachthe studiowiththatsameopenness. There'snowrongwaytomake something,nohierarchyofwhat's valuableorimportant.WhetherI'm workingonalargepaintingor figuringouthowtohangapieceon constructionscaffolding,itallcomes fromthatsameplace thisneedto createandthebeliefthatwhatever I'mmakingmatters

andwhatlegacydoyouhope CronArtUSAleaves?

I'minspiredbywhereIaminmy careerasapainterafterdoingitfor 30yearsandbeingcomfortablewith wheremyworkisrightnow,what I'mcreating,andhowI'mcreatingit.

Iwasrecentlycommissionedbythe DepartmentofHealthfora countywideawarenesscampaign. Theywereinspiredbymy'ExpectA Bike'campaignandhowitused widespreadsignagetopromote safety Whatstrikesmemostabout thiscollaborationisthatinaworld wherepublichealthcampaigns typicallycomeoutofmarketing firmsorgovernmentoffices,they chosetoinviteaworkingartistto collaborate.Thatshowstheyvalue

art and understand its unique ability to communicate and connect with people

These kinds of projects excite me when institutions recognize that art can do something that traditional approaches can't It's not just about making something look good; it's about creating genuine connection and engagement.

This has been a journey about being open and following the next moment. CronArtUSA was actually a tag I used back in college I always saw 'it,' whatever that 'it' was, as something international, though I didn't know what that meant at the time. It evolved into the brand behind the merchandise and then into something mission-driven, a

company built to collaborate with changemakers around the world on projects. There's Ryan Cronin, the artist, and CronArtUSA, the brand, and the two grow together to create real impact.

As for legacy, I hope I'm remembered for creating a body of work that's truly unique and my own someone who figured out how to stay true to the work while building something sustainable around it that creates real impact in the world.

What role does curiosity play in your career?

A pretty significant role. I'd say I'm curious in my process and continuing to search for new ways of building off everything I've already created. Curious in my choice of materials too like what I discovered in Senegal, becoming aware of everyday objects around me that could become part of the work

I also think curiosity is important for moving forward. Without being curious, it's hard to evolve. You get stuck doing the same thing over and over. That curiosity keeps me asking questions what if I try this material differently? What happens if I approach this composition from another angle? How does this color work against that one?

It's what drives the travel, the collaborations, even the business decisions. If you're not curious about what's possible, you're not really growing. And after 30 years of making work, that curiosity is what keeps it fresh for me.

MOLLY CARR with...

Violist Juilliard String Quartet, Juilliard Faculty, Founder Project Music Heals Us

Q:Whatrolehascuriosity playedinyourdevelopment fromabeginner,toamusician celebratedas“oneofthemost interestinginterpretersofthe violatoday”(Codalario,Spain) andpraisedforperformances describedas“intoxicating” (TheNewYorkTimes)and “exquisite,heartbreakingly beautiful”(BBC)?

I’dliketosaythatcuriosityplayeda roleinmydevelopmentfromthevery beginning.Buthonestly,Ionlystarted playingmyinstrumentbecausemy mommademe Therewasn'treally muchdeepthought,searching,or curiosityinmyearlystagesasa musicianat6yearsold;therewas more"Ihavetodothisbecausemy teachersaiditshouldbethisway" ThankgoodnessIwasveryluckyto havehadamazingteacherstakeme undertheirwings!Itwasn’tuntilIwas handedaviolaatagetenthatallthe partsofmybrainlituplikefireworks, andIwantedtolearnandexplore everypossibilityofsound

and expression I could dig out of that instrument. At that point, my mom stopped having to tell me to practice. Instead, I would spend hours and hours trying to piece together what sound would come out if I bent my pinky this way. Or what color would come out if I breathed deeply vs. shallowly. Or, or, or! That was my first very joyful deep dive into the magic land of learning and exploring for myself. But beyond that, I would say it wasn’t until I was actually out of school that I started to really look around me and get curious about… everything! I think I’m not unusual in that those who are raised in a highly-competitive “apprenticeship” training path from a young age usually think they made

the choice to follow that path. But in reality, it was made for them. And so, they follow that intensive path for 15+ years until, suddenly, they realize that maybe they are only doing this because they’re good at it, and that all outside sources told them they were good at it. And that felt good for a while. They think they love what they’re doing, but what they really love is the outside feedback… and they realize they never stopped to really think or to choose their path. This was my experience leading up to Juilliard. However, once I graduated from Juilliard and suddenly found myself out “in the wilderness” without a coach or teacher for the first time in my musical life to give me that delicious outside feedback, I found myself in a terrifying and wonderful vacuum. I was suddenly given the gift of time and space to explore being an artist and violist on my own terms It was here that I started to form connections between life experiences, books, movies, friendships, conversations, and so many layers of our confusing world, and how I wanted it to relate to my music-making. Ultimately, this was when I truly decided for myself that being a musician WAS and IS MY choice, and it is what I do love to spend my time doing. And you know what??! THIS is when life started to get really interesting, fun, and fulfilling (and it also happened to be

when suddenly all those big auditions, competitions, and career steps started to materialize… not a surprising coincidence!).

Q:Whatwasthemomentlike whenyouwereaskedtobein thelegendaryJuilliardString Quartet?

ThemomentIreceivedthenews,I rememberIliterallyjumpedupand downlikealittlegirlwavingmyarms andlaughingoutloudwithjoy.Once thislittleepisodehadpassedthough, Irememberfeelinganimmense calminanalignedheartandmind, somehowknowingthatthiswasthe rightnextstepandwhereIwas supposedtobe.EverythingI'dbeen trainingtodosinceIwasalittlegirl hadpreparedmeforthisnext challenge Itwasanincredible

realization that I could DO this! All that was necessary for me to succeed in this position was to just keep doing what I loved to do: a very grounding and freeing realization.

Of course, the weight of an 80-yearold legacy can be crippling if I stop to think too long about it. But the daily challenge of honing expression through sound together with an ensemble of people I respect immensely... This makes the job at once so simple and wonderfully grand, and ever so much bigger than me and my own insecurities.

Truly, being invited to carry on the torch for this ensemble into its next generation is one of the greatest honors one could hope for as a violist!

Q:Whatinspiredyoutofound Project:MusicHealsUs,and whatimpacthasithadon bothparticipantsand musicians?

Wow,that'sabigquestion!How manypagesisthisissue??Imight needabout50forthisonequestion. :D

I'lldomybesttowriteincredibly concisely,butifanyoneislookingfor thefullstoryonthefoundingof Project:MusicHealsUs,feelfreeto visitthe"mystory"pageonmy

website!

I founded Project: Music Heals Us (PMHU) after three pivotal experiences shaped my perspective. First, I began questioning my career path as a violist, feeling that I had lost my way and forgotten ‘the why’ of making music. Then I injured my left hand and suddenly faced the terrifying possibility that I might never be able to play my instrument again. Finally, while serving as a Nursing Aide with the American Red Cross, I found myself in an unexpectedly life-changing moment of care for a late-stage Alzheimer’s patient named Ruth. Through my time caring for Ruth, I discovered what a few simple moments of kindness and quiet, compassionate connection can do for someone suffering in isolation.

PMHUwasfoundedbecauseat Ruth’sbedside,Irediscoveredmy coreWHYforprettymuch everythingIwanttospendmytime doinginlife:creatingandenjoying momentsofhonestandvulnerable humanconnection Witnessing firsthandthemedicaland physiologicalbenefitsofsucha connectioninRuthmademerealize, withlightning-boltclarity,thatI wantedmorethanANYTHINGtouse mymusicaltalentstohelpfacilitate thesemomentsofconnectionfor others andformyself.Ipromised RuththatIwouldrelearnhowtoplay myinstrumentaroundmyinjuryso thatIcouldbringmymusicalfriends fromaroundtheworldtoplayather bedside.SoIwenthome,relearned howtoplay,andfoundedProject: MusicHealsUs

Theimpactofthischoicehasmeant thatPMHUhasbroughtmusicto over30,000Ruthsaroundtheglobe workinginprisons,hospitalICUs, rehabcenters,internationalslums, refugeecamps...isolated communitiesacrossfourcontinents. Inthesimplestdatapoints: shortenedprisonsentences, shortenedhospitalstays, reconnectedfamilies,new possibilitiesforbetterlivesfor studentsinsomeofthemost impoverishedareasonourglobe…

memorablemomentfrom performinginunconventional venues,suchasprisonsor refugeecamps?

I'llsharetwo!

AftertheveryfirstconcertIever playedinprison,anincarcerated audiencememberapproachedme tothankmefortheopportunityof beingabletoclosehiseyesandfeel safeforthefirsttimesincehehad beensenttoprison,whichwasyears ago!

Thismonth,Ihadtheopportunityto traveltoKenyatoworkin-person withstudentsfromtheKorogocho slumwhomPMHUhasbeen teachingoverzoomforthepastfour years.IbroughtateamofJulliardtrainedmusicianswithmetowork intensivelywithourKenyanstudents fortendays,performingforthe Korogochocommunityonthelast day.Withinthisspanoftendaysand thefinalconcerts,thereweremore highly-emotional,memorable momentsthanIcanfitinthisissue!

Q:Canyoushareaparticularly

Butonemomentstoodoutin particular:themomentwegifted threestudentswiththeirveryown instrumentsthelastnightofthevisit Igottowatchasonestudentclung totheneckofoneofourPMHU teachers,sobbingfromgratitude. Anotherstartedjumpingand dancinglikethePiedPiper,shouting inexcitement Andthethirdjust shookhisheadindisbelief, mutteringagainandagain:"Thank youforthisgift.Thankyou.Iwill makeyouproud Ipromise Iwill worklikeyou’veneverseensomeone work.Thankyouforthisgift.Thank you."

Beingabletobethatrightpersonat thatrightplaceatthatrighttimeto witnessthatmoment,tofacilitate cross-continentalfriendshipsandgift instrumentsthathavethepotential tochangelivesinaplaceinthe worldwheremaking39centsaday isa"win"...Thiswasthemost incrediblegift,honor,andprivilege asanartistandhuman.

Q:Doyoupreparedifferently, emotionallyandmentally,for performancesinsettingsas diverseasCarnegieHallanda hospitalICU?

Honestly,Itrytopreparefor CarnegieHallthewayIinstinctively prepareforanICUperformance,and ItrytoprepareforanICU performancethewayIinstinctively

prepareforCarnegieHall!

SteppingintoanICUtoperform,you feelrightawaythateverynoteyou playMUSTcomewithfullmeaning, honesty,andheart somuchsothat inmyearlyhospitalperformances,it wasmaybeabittooeasyto completelyleavebehindanyfocus on"technique"whileIperformed, producingveryheartfeltbutmaybe slightlyless-than-perfect(aka: messy!)performances.

Conversely,preparingtostepontoa stageasreveredasCarnegieHall tendstogetoneintothemindsetof "OMG.Gottaplayperfectly!"-which meansoftenthepreparationgoes intothedeependofmakingsure thatyourtechniqueisbrightand shinyandattheveryhighestlevelit couldpossiblybe.Thiscan,however, oftendraintheheartandjoyright outofthemusicandmakeit technicallyperfect,buttotallystale.

Sinceplayinginprisons,ICUs,and spacesverydifferentfromCarnegie Hall,I'vestartedtotrytobringthe typeofheartandhonestyfromthose spacesontothemoretraditional concertstages oftenpickingeven justonepersonintheaudienceto musically"speakto"inthewayI instinctuallydoinanICU Yes, technique butonlyifthere'ssoul! Andviceversa:IfIpreparetoplayin anICUwiththesamecommitment, attentiontodetail,andrespectfor qualitythatIdoforCarnegieHall, thenIfeelworthyofbeinginthat incrediblyvulnerablespacewitha patient.Anythinglessthanthat,and Ifeeloutofplaceanddisrespectful.

Q:Howhasyourexperienceas anintrovertinfluencedyour approachtoteachingatyour prestigiousalmamater, Juilliard,andperformingon someofthebiggestandmost iconicstagesintheworld?

WhenIwasinmyteens,Iusedto prayeachmorningthatImightbe abletofinallygetovermyshyness andbecomeextrovertedandfearless soIcouldmovethroughtheworld withlessinternalconflictandeffort Butatthispoint teachingon facultyatJuilliard,performingmany, manyhigh-pressureperformances peryear,andworkingasanonprofit leadertobuildcommunitiesin isolatedspaces Irealizethatmy

shynesshassortofbecomemy superpower.BecauseIhavehadto figureouthowtoplaythe psychologygame,fightingalife-long internalbattletofindandfortify psychologicalsafespacesformyself inordertobringfullexpressionand vulnerabilityintothespotlightasan introvert,itmeansthatInowhavea prettyextensivebagoftoolsthatI cansharewithotherswhomightbe strugglingwiththesame!

Furthermore,becauseI'mshyIknow whatitfeelsliketobeisolatedandto cravepersonalconnectionwhenI can'tfindawaytoopenuptoothers. Iknowwhatitfeelsliketobe insecureandwishIcouldstepaway fromthecrowdandintomyown privatecornertobreathe(perhaps notsounlikesomeofmystudents whoareafraidtostepoutontoa concertstage) AndIknowwhatit feelsliketobevulnerablewhen everyoneelsearoundmeseems toughasnails(perhapsnotunlike PMHU'sincarceratedstudents...).

Q:Ithinkmostpeoplethink thatworld-classmusicians likeyourselfareextremely brightandtechnically flawless,butsharewithusthe overlookedphysicaldemands ofplayingatthatlevel.

you need full access to your honest emotions and wisdom to navigate and dive deeply into human expression in your art. So yes staying in peak shape is a serious investment of time and effort!

Iactuallyjustcamefromteachinga lessonanhouragoinwhichIwas talkingtomystudentabouthow practicingisliketrainingforthe Olympics.Yourmindistheguide, butthebodymustbetrainedto followwithconsistencyand precision.Inordertodothatatthe highestlevel,yourbody,mind,and spiritallneedtobeinalignmentand goodhealth.Stayinginphysical shapeisanecessitywhenyou’re usingboththebiggestandsmallest musclessofrequentlyaspartofthis training.Eatingwellandstaying hydratedisalsoessentialwhenyour brainisyourmostpowerfultooland imaginativesherpaeachdayinthe practiceroomandonstage And sleepingenoughiscriticalwhen

Q:Wastherea“lightbulb moment”inyourcareerthat changedyourperspectiveor approachtomusicandlife?

Ithinktherehavebeenseveral lightbulbmomentsforme.

Italkedaboutoneofthemabove: Ruth!IalsothinkthefirsttimeI adoptedadogchangedalotforme. Tohavesomethingloveyouso dearlyandunconditionallywhether younailedthatlastauditionoryou madeatotalfoolofyourself this wasahugemomentforme.Giving andreceivingsuchloveandcareto andfromanothercreaturemade thingsgroundedandsimple. Realizingmydogwouldloveme evenmorethanItzhakPerlman

himself (true story) even if I performed horribly somehow suddenly made it OK to play horribly - so it freed me from playing horribly!

Similarly, when I met, fell in love with, and married my husband and most recently, the day I brought my son into the world these events put life, music, and career into perspective and more clearly defined the priorities I want to have while I’m on this earth. Now, anything I do away from my family had better be either a total joy or a total necessity there’s no more room for anything in between!

Q:Whatdoyouenjoydoing outsideofmusictorecharge andstaycurious?

Podcasts!!RightnowI'mtotally addictedtoneurosciencepodcasts. They'refascinatingandIcan'tstop listening!

Q:Yourperformanceshave takenyouallovertheglobe: NorthAmerica,Europe,the MiddleEast,andAsia.What arethemaindifferencesin performingondifferent continents?Doyouhavea favorite?

Ithinkthebiggestdifferenceacross continentsistheenergyofthe audiences.Whenamusician performs,theaudiencebecomesan additionalcolleagueforthatevening. Theenergythatthis"newcolleague" bringstotheperformanceisso clearlyfeltbythoseonstage. Interestingly,Americanaudiences generallybringaveryenthusiastic energyandarequicktooffer standingovations(whichisnice!), butatthesametimetheyclapfora VERYshortamountoftime sometimessoshortthatwecan’t scurryoffthestageintime!Europe alwayshastheMOSTintensely focusedaudiences.Whiletheenergy maybelesskineticthanan Americancrowd,youreallyfeelthem withyouinaverycommittedway. Andit’sanunspokenrulethatthey willalwaysexpectanencore.InAsia, allofmyexperienceshavebeenthat thecrowdseemsveryreserveduntil theapplause atwhichpointthey clapforwhatseemslikehoursand many,manyencoreslater.Sofarin Africa-theaudiencebringsthefeel ofaPARTY!!

As for a favorite location, I think my very favorite audience, hall, AND geographic location all combined so far has been Salzburg, Austria Mozart's hometown!

Q:Ifyoucouldcollaborate withanyartist,livingordead, whowoulditbeandwhy?

IthinkJonBatiste?!Thereissomuch joyinwhathedoes I'mdyingtoget himtocomeplaywithmeinoneof PMHU'sprisonprograms!! big or scary to tackle.

Q:Whyisitimportanttobean outlierandbeunafraidto showupdifferentlyandtake theroadlesstraveled?

Afewyearsago,whenIstarted complainingtoacareercoachabout howworriedandstressedIfeltabout variousnew,big,challenging changesinmylife,hegrinnedand replied,"But,Molly,ifyou're comfortable,areyougrowing?Isn't expandingtheedgeofwhat's possiblewhereyouwanttolive, explore,andlearn?Livingonthe edgeof(orsometimeswellbeyond!) whatyouthinkispossibleistheonly waytoseewhatyou'rereallycapable of.Don'tyouwanttoseewhatyou're capableof?"Thatshutmeup!Ihad tobegrudginglyagreewithhim.To thisday,Itrytorememberthislogic anytimeanewchallengefeelstoo

I think it's important to state, though, that there is pretty much nothing that I do or have ever done in life WITHOUT feeling afraid. As an extreme introvert, even just stepping out the door some days is a lot not to mention stepping onto the concert stage! But as another wise mentor once told me, "Once you find what you love, fear will become an afterthought." She, too, was dead on! Once I discovered what I loved and what fulfills me most, the fear had to take a back seat Don't worry! It is still there (it probably always will be), but it's now been eclipsed by the desire to chase after what I love most.

In answer to this question, I'd also like to say that I really believe each and every person is built to live, love, and be fulfilled in their own unique way. The tool I was gifted with and also drawn to was music

For someone else, it might be cooking! For another person, it might be medicine, or basketball, or acting, or administration, or mathematics, etc. But each of us has one or more gifts or talents built into our system. And when we find it/them, in my experience we KNOW it with full clarity. Our whole system lights up with joy. We each know when we've found what we love, and what we

were built to do. And if a life in pursuit of this means we must take a road that no one else has ever traveled, so be it! That road is where you know you need to be; you suddenly become the right person, in the right place, at the right time, and your courage and determination become more ferocious than your fear.

This isn’t your first time, Molly, being featured in a major publication, but we ’ re confident this will be your favorite! Of all of the incredible press you ’ ve received from the New York Times, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, PBS, CNN, NPR, and BBC World News, to name a few, what was the most memorable “pinch me ” moment?

It was definitely the morning I woke up to a feature in Forbes. As a nerdy classicallytrained violist, the LAST thing I ever thought I would see is my name in such a business-y publication! That felt pretty cool.

“Being an outlier means setting trends, not following the trends, choosing your own adventure and just being you, not following anyone else.”

-Devon Lévesque

We dive deep with Devon Lévesque, a true embodiment of what it means to be an Outlier. From a childhood steeped in self-sufficiency on an Idaho farm to becoming a global adventurer and successful entrepreneur by 33, Devon's journey is a testament to living life on his own terms. His story isn't just about extraordinary feats, but the relentless pursuit of selfdiscovery

What truly sets Devon apart is his insatiable curiosity, a trait he champions as his "superpower." This interview reveals how his willingness to explore, to ask "what if," and to intentionally step outside his comfort zone has shaped not only his incredible accomplishments, like bear-crawling a marathon for mental health awareness or backflipping on Everest, but also his entire philosophy on life, business, and well-being

Prepare to be challenged, inspired, and perhaps even motivated to find your own path. -

Scott MacGregor

You've had a very interesting childhood, growing up in Idaho and New Hampshire, that is kind of taking you full circle. We'll get into that in a bit. But tell us about what stands out from your upbringing on the farm.

Devon: I think what stands out is all of these things that I guess is now, you know, online and kind of public and what people know me for weren't things that I just started doing. They were things I've been doing since I was a kid: milking cows, riding horses. My mom was a horse trainer. My dad was a pro weight lifter. Both my parents were professional arm wrestlers I've been taking fish oil omega3 since I was born My mom was taking it when she was pregnant with me I was taking vitamins that my parents were giving me ever since I was a kid, drinking raw milk, you know, going outside barefoot, working out, doing chin-ups every day, doing lunges. Family cookouts on the regular, eating good steak, just living this very wholesome, you know, I guess, what do they call it now?

Homesteading? You know, living this homestead life since I was a kid in Idaho.

I was in so many predicaments like that, Scott where I cut my feet in the river, or I got kicked by a horse, or, you know, scrapes and cuts rub some dirt on it type mentality, taking vitamins

It was just natural for me And so I think what sticks out is it wasn't something that I just thought of doing I've been living it my whole life and I think now the world is coming back to it, coming back to this homestead idea: I want to grow my own food. I want transparency from

where my meats and veggies are coming from I want community I want to take my shoes off and be barefoot You know, all these barefoot shoe companies are coming out like this. These were things that I was just doing for the last 33 years. It’s really cool to see it kind of starting to come back to life and people are super aware. But I think what sticks out is I've always been doing this and it's not just a trend that I'm on.

It's a part of who you are, clearly. You played football in college, but you realized that an alternative path was more for you. What made you come to that realization?

Devon: I felt that school was controlling my time, and I knew if I didn't control my time, someone else would And that was school at the time And so I think I just realized like day in and day out, that the days are just limited I said to myself, “I can control this I can work for myself I don't know what school's gonna do for me right now sitting in a classroom, short-term, at least ” I don't come from money or anything. I always had to pay my own bills. And you know, I've been on my own since I was 16 years old, since my dad passed. And I was like, if no one else can figure this out for me, then I have to figure it out, and school's not figuring it out for me. I started working in restaurants and nightclubs in New York City, and Hoboken, and all around that area You meet a lot of people and there's a lot of opportunity And if you work hard, stay true to your word, and are hospitable and help people out, I think opportunities just continue to come

I noticed that early, when I was 20. I got hired when I was 20 in the nightclub scene and my whole thing was, “let me make my bosses' jobs easier. Let me make other people's lives easier. Let me always show everyone a good time and over- deliver, and let's just see where it goes.” I think I was taught that at a young age. I did construction growing up I hung drywall And you know, if I wasn't hanging drywall, I was picking up scraps And if I wasn't picking up scraps, I

Your rise from hospitality and personal training in less than a decade has been pretty meteoric. What did those experiences teach you that still impact you?

Devon: That I have control of my life I have control of how I respond I have control of how I spend my time Money doesn't bring freedom I think you can get freedom before money, and it was up to me to be strict with that. I started was going to get lunch for everyone. If I wasn't getting lunch, I was sweeping. And if I wasn't sweeping, I was always providing value, and I just continued to do that. That was kind of my work ethic.

implementing a value driven life, meaning I started to audit everything I was doing in life, and if it didn't hit on family, health, community, freedom of time or giving back, I wouldn't do it. I started to create barriers and strict guidelines around my time. Not necessarily my money, not where I was investing, not any, except for guidelines around my time If it doesn't hit on one of those five things, then it's likely wasting my time and what my goal of happiness will look like If I'm constantly doing those five things every day, then that makes me happy, regardless of the money, regardless of the fame, regardless of celebrities, whatever it is If I can be with family, if I can spend time in community, if I can own my time, if I can give back and I can be healthy, then that makes me happy. And that's where I started just living, and I started to feel free.

I felt free from the rat race of society: “Well, I need this car, and I need to do

this, and I need this title and work, and I need X amount of followers and I need, you know, whatever it is that society says is success ” I just stepped away from that and I decided this is what success means to me, to be able do these five things every day.

And when I started doing those five things, I started to be unique to myself. And when you're unique to yourself, you start to separate from what society's doing. It's such a simple formula, but if you're literally just more yourself, you stick out because society's all doing the same crap every day You know what I mean?

At only thirty-three, your adventures have taken you to continents from Africa to Antarctica, and to the top of the world. How much of your adventurous side is fueled by curiosity?

Devon: I would say 99% of it I am so curious. I've been curious since I was a kid. The world is so big. There's 8 billion people here. Everyone has a different story, and I like to hear those stories. I like to see new places. It sparks, selfishly, ideas in my brain and different ways to live and go about life. It's all curiosity. I would say it's 100% curiosity. I would say that's my superpower I'm a yes guy I have rules in my book of life where if there's an opportunity to go to a beach, or go jump in a cold plunge in Alaska, or I have the opportunity to go somewhere or meet someone when it aligns in my values, I'm saying yes to it Unless I just genuinely don't have time and I can't do it, I'm doing it, you know? And so curiosity is everything.

An open mind. It's not just being curious but not having a strict, closed mind like, “OK, well, I'm gonna try it, but it has to be my way.” It's, “I wanna try it. I wanna see. I just wanna try it. There's no expectation. There's more of an intention of curiosity.”

Not many people can say that out of the estimated 117 billion people who have ever lived, they're the only person to do something. And that's pretty wild. So you're the first person to ever bear crawl a marathon. What made you want to do something so grueling?

Devon: There were intrinsic and extrinsic motivators. I noticed my dad going through some mental health struggles He was such a happy-go-lucky guy And then one year it kind of just switched The last 12 months of his life, I started to see him praying more, being a little bit more stoic, depressed, and he didn't really have an outlet He tried all these different types of therapy and speaking

to different pastors, and different people and trying new stuff, you know, just trying to do the right thing And it's like there was no fix, there was no awareness, there was no hotline, there was no outlet And that led him to taking his life.

And so when I was 16, I told myself, I never want to see anyone like this again, ever. No one should go through something like that. No one should have all these thoughts in their brain, and not have an outlet to at least speak them out So I told myself I wanted to help people wake up happier and healthier My intrinsic motivator for bear crawling was to bring awareness to anyone going through something You know, it's 11:15 on a Wednesday and I've had a morning I've gone through some shit this morning You might have gone through some shit, and it's not perfect. I do believe every single one of the 8 billion people on earth are going through something.

But where's the outlet? Where is someone, not just your partner, that you can talk to? What else can you do? Are you going somewhere? Is there a group of people? Is there a community of people? Let's bring awareness to it Let's not just keep all these thoughts bottled in and be like, “Oh, I'm the only one on earth dealing with some shit ”

I wanted to bring awareness that extrinsically was to help people out That's where being able to tell that story and help others was my extrinsic motivator. I was training for the bear crawl for 12 months, and bear crawling every day from 2:00 AM to 6:00 or 7:00AM, just as much as I could in those

four or five hours. And then I would start my day. I was posting about it, and that's the beauty of social media, you can reach millions and billions of people with a post. I started to see that people were inspired and they're like, “Wow, he's bear crawling for mental health ” Like, “Hey, Dev, I'm actually going through some shit ” Or “Hey, you know, my dad's struggling with this ” or “Hey, my mom's struggling with that ” And I started to hear more and more stories of people struggling over those 12 months

So I just kept bear crawling and bear crawling and bear crawling. And I was like, “This is really cool that extrinsically people are changing from it. I'm saving lives.” I mean the amount of people that would DM me, which is pretty sad, but also pretty great, that they were on the brink of taking their life and they didn't because they saw this And I was like, “Holy shit, I'm literally saving lives from just crawling ” Crawling's hard, but when you have things going on in your head and you're on the brink, that's much harder I just wanted to prove that doing something that seems impossible is possible Kind of like going through suicidal thoughts or going through depression. It seems impossible, but it is possible to come through. A bear crawling marathon seems impossible, but you know, it was possible. And so that's kind of where it all came from.

What a testimony to your dad. And you've helped so many people through that, I think it was almost 21 hours of bear crawling.

Devon: 20 hours, 48 minutes. Yeah, almost 21 hours.

Tell me how much thought went into being the first person to ever summit Everest and do a backflip at the top of the world.

Devon: I have been thinking of climbing Everest, at least attempting it, since I was a kid. I always wanted to. I think it just comes from curiosity, wanting to see what it feels like to stand on top of the world You know, you see videos, you hear stories, but like, how hard is this thing actually? I think, like any endeavor I've done, I’ve got to put my feet out there and I have to physically show up and do it, and then I can give my testimony of what it's really like Everest is super hard. It shouldn't be taken lightly. You're out in the middle of nowhere with no help, no one to really save you. Mother Nature is the one to be respected there, and I just always wanted to see what it was like. I also find calmness in climbing and kind of, you know, not being on your phone, and being away from people and just being somewhere that's so unpredictable

You have to focus on every step You have to focus on what's at hand You have to focus on what you're eating, your health Life becomes a lot simpler when you're out in a tent, and you have a couple meals a day, and you have a couple pairs of clothes and changes of clothes. It becomes really simple. Think about all the hats and all the shoes in your closet right now, right? Or all the coffee mugs in your house. Some people have multiple vehicles. All this stuff starts adding up, and whether humans know it or not, it takes up brain space So when you simplify it, it brings calmness And when I have calmness, I can think I can take that brain space and think about other things, whether it's life, or aspirations, or relationships, or business challenges or business You start to really organize the brain. Or I did at least. I speak about this, but Marcus Aurelius has a great quote. Not that I'm a stoic or anything, but, “The nearer a man comes to a calm mind, the closer he is to real strength.” I really believe that it's not how much weight you can lift, it's not about how much money you have

in the bank It's not these accolades It’s: Can you calm the brain? Can you calm it in tough situations and in good situations? Do you have control of your brain? That's kind of what I'm working on. So I think that was probably the deeper meaning of climbing Everest. I also, you know, I always talked to my dad about Everest. He climbed Mount Rainier. He did some mountaineering. He was an adventurer and it was kind of, I don't know, it was kind of a little climb with him at the end of the day too

Backflip. Spontaneous or…

Devon: Spontaneous Not planned Super spontaneous When I was at 28,000 feet, I think I was like, “OK, I think I have enough energy. I'm gonna try to. I don't know if I'll ever be up here again.” It's actually gained a foot in the last 10 years. Everest is not 29,029 feet anymore, it's 29,030 feet. Once I was up there I had a little energy and I'm like, “This is incredible.” I mean, there's nothing higher in the world. There's no human higher And I'm like, “let me do something I'll never forget, and that no one could ever take away from me No money could ever buy ” And yeah, I kind of just threw it and, I don't know

That had to be the hardest backflip of your life.

Devon: It was. I was definitely gasping for oxygen. I was breathing in oxygen before and then, you know, right after I threw the mask back on. But yeah, it was. It was scary too, because it's not like a perfect level surface You know, luckily I was clipped in Also flipping while you're clipped in with a cable is not

super easy 'cause it could get caught So that was a one and done There was no second backflip It was one backflip I also had the crampons on, I had the boots, I had the suit. You know, there was probably 15-20 lbs of just gear that I'm wearing.

Crazy. Your company, Promix, has been hugely successful. What makes you so passionate about that space?

Devon: Transparency of ingredients and just, you know, people should know where they're getting stuff from, where the stuff they're putting in their bodies is sourced from. The core of it is just putting together clean ingredients, something that I would put in my own body.

It's our engine. It's what's fueling our body. It's what's fueling energy. It's what's fueling sex drive It's what's fueling our blood It's what's fueling our gut It's what's fueling our sight, our

senses What we put in our body is so crucial and so man, if people could just put the right things in their body, they would be less anxious. They would have a little less depression. They would have a little bit more confidence. Your body is super smart. I mean, look at the things I've done where I've put my body through these crazy stressors, whether it's on Everest or bear crawling, or these mountains or, you know, near-death experiences, surgeries our body heals itself And so many of us work against it by putting this shit in it, and then we're like, “Well, I'm not losing the weight,” or “Why is my body so stressed out? Why do I have all this anxiety?” Well, if you start putting the right stuff in, and start focusing on your brain, everything starts to really work together. I think that's where the passion came from. And you know, my partner Albert and I just feel that passion.

We push whole foods first. If you have access to cook a beef liver, cook the beef liver. If you have access to raw baobab or raspberries or blueberries or really good whole foods, take that first. But if you're in a rush like the majority of humans, then here's a supplement that we've sourced that's clean that you can take.

I think that's really where it came from But what I think is also a testament to it all (because you know we sold it to a private equity firm about seven months ago), is the way we grew it I was still able to do all these adventures I wasn't in an office Look, there's days that you grind and you’ve got to get shit done. But overall, adventures came first. Life came first, family came first, community came first. And then, yeah, we're building a business as well, right? And I think that's what I'm most proud of. I didn't waste

the last five years of my life building this thing. I really lived the last five years, probably the most I've ever lived in my life, and still was able to build a nine figure plus business.

Let's talk about Sweet Honey Farm. I think it's one of the coolest, most unique concepts ever. Tell everybody about it.

Devon: Thank you. Sweet Honey Farm is everything that we just spoke about all in one. It is the whole foods. It is hard challenges It is a good community My family's on my payroll there My sister and my mom work there It is a true environment of everything I'm living all in one Some people invest in restaurants as their hospitality, you know, to host people This is kind of my restaurant This is my way of bringing people together in my community and giving people a

“We believe anyone can be ordinary, but we all have the power to choose to be extraordinary.”

- Scott MacGregor

you do it correctly, that's a lot of tomatoes People don't know that

And so it's educating humans on that, or how it all works as one You know, some of the veggies that aren't used go to the chickens The chickens provide eggs, the eggs provide food. Manure from the cows, we take that, take out the acid, you put it in the garden, you move the cows around so it tells the land a little bit. So everything works as one. It's educating humans on that. It's a working farm. We're raising cows, ducks, and chickens. We grow our own veggies, mushrooms, stuff like that, harvest them, eat them So people get to learn, they get to meet people, they get to try new things They get to feel good My goal there is for people to come on the property and leave happier place where they can feel safe and they can heal and they can sauna and they can cold plunge They can feel good and they can drop their anxiety a little bit They can meet new people.

This is kind of my second home. It's a place of collaboration, of curiosity. You know, saunas, cold plunges, pickleball, basketball, gin, coffee shop, co-working space. An amazing community of people, a lot of founders, entrepreneurs. Weekly events: horse riding, goat yoga, baby cows being born all the time It's just a family environment, it's a day club We don't have this crazy nightlife scene, you know, of drinking and drugs and all that shit that you would normally find at some of these membership spots The drug is the cold plunge The drug is the sauna The drug is the community The drug is the dopamine rush you get after a hard workout, or the ongoing education that we have, and charitable events that we have with local community schools and teaching them about regeneration farming. The amount of people who don't know that a tomato plant yields about 100 tomatoes a year here, right? If

You have a massive wait list, so obviously it's been incredibly successful. Are there plans to take it outside of the current location?

Devon: There are There are definitely plans But like anything, things take time and I want to focus on the community at this location first, and then we'll expand I'll definitely be expanding it

Your relationship with Jesse Itzler developed pretty quickly. Now you’re business partners in All Day Running Co., and you’re adventure buddies riding your bikes across the US, doing a whirlwind Finland sauna tour. What do you think makes your friendship with Jesse so strong?

Devon: I think it's values driven I think we find the same things funny and so we laugh a lot. We have a similar type of humor. We put adventure, our family, and community first; business second. We respect each other's boundaries. Boundaries are big for business partners. A lot of business partners don't work out because they cross the boundaries quite a bit. And most of all, I think we're just having fun, man We're doing something we like It works for our schedules, it

works for our lifestyles, and we respect each other. We respect each other's thoughts, words, time. We never waste each other's time I don't know if we've done anything, to be honest, where we've wasted each other's time, which I think is a big no in business You know, there's a lot of calls to have a call to have a call, right? We don't have that When we have a call, we get the shit done We have another call, get the shit done It's actionable steps versus a call to have a call to have a call.

You've done an incredible job of setting boundaries personally and professionally. What would your suggestion be for people to set their own boundaries and priorities?

Devon: I think it's understanding what

values you live by and starting to audit your time Quick, you know, green highlighter and red highlighter Highlight all the red that don't hit on your values. Highlight the green that do. Slowly take the red out and do the same thing with the people around you that you're seeing on a weekly, daily, monthly basis, yearly basis. Audit those people. Now the time and the people in your life hit your values. And now that's the energy you're putting out in the world, which will essentially be the opportunities and things that come back into your world I've helped thousands of people do that It's worked It's a good little formula that doesn't cost anything really at all You know, it's just you It's a simple audit and a true conversation with yourself, and then you kind of go from there There's always gonna be slips through the cracks, but overall it's a good audit. Audit your time, audit the people you're around, and then stay true to your word. Do what you say you're gonna do. I think that's the biggest part. If you stay true to your word year over year over decade, you gain respect and people trust you, which then leads to opportunities or adventures or just positive things in life So that would probably be my advice off the top of my head

What makes you happy, and what scares you?

Devon: What makes me happy is when I control my time, and when the people around me are happy That makes me really happy when people are just they're not necessarily ecstatic I don't need people ecstatic, just content and OK, you know, waking up and saying, “OK, I'm good. I'm not dying. I'm good.

I'm healthy ” That's what makes me happy, when people around me are happy

What scares me is not maximizing my time and being 70, 80, 90, 100 years old… looking back and saying, “Man, what if I did that? What if I tried that? I wish I would have done that.” You know, if I'm older and I didn't maximize the time that I'm here. That scares me.

What's next for you, personally and professionally?

Devon: Personally, I believe we're swimming and paddle boarding across Lake Tahoe later this year, Jesse and I, and so that'll be cool. That's 22 miles. And then I'm climbing Denali next summer

And then professionally, I just launched an at home blood test, the easiest blood test in the world to help give people a baseline and understand where they're at It's a monthly blood test that's so easy You don't need a nurse There's no needles, no finger prick. It goes in your arm for 3 minutes and you get your results in 48 hours. It's called Rhythm Health. I'm really excited about it because people ask, “How do I get healthier?” Well, you know, it starts with what's going on inside you. And so this is a great way on a monthly basis to kind of see where you're at Testosterone, estrogen, cholesterol, vitamin B12, iron, D3, all these different vitamins that most humans are deficient in or levels that they're deficient in It's monthly, not annually I'm excited about that

I'm excited about Sweet Honey Farm and focusing on the community now, and expanding that out. And then

SEEK: HOW CURIOSITY CAN TRANSFORM YOUR LIFE AND CHANGE THE WORLD SCOTT SHIGEOKA

“A must-read for every Outlier at heart, it shows how curiosity isn't just a personality trait ; it's a radical force for personal transformation, connection, and worldchanging impact.

OM Staff pick-Scott

HOW TO EXPAND THE HORIZONS OF YOUR CURIOSITY

“This powerful talk from Simon Sinek isn’t just inspiring It’ s a clear call for outliers and curious minds to break free from judgment and open up to new perspectives ”

INTELLECTUAL CURIOSITY IS KEY TO UNLOCKING A RICHER, FULLER

LIFE

ABBY ELLIN

This explores how asking deep “why” questions, like true outliers, fuels creativity, growth, and unexpected breakthroughs.

OM Staff Pick - Melissa

idote to ome is a ting out

d letting e to the urface.”

Philadelphia where I was o become a Associate. Late in my dorm, I read r’s book Living AL, and one line me cold: “You don’t experience to get ou just need nthusiasm, and to oot in the door out the rest stop thinking e’d lived such a adventurous and e by creating his r path. Could I do

Instead of sticking strictly to chemistry classes, I spent my free time building a travel app, binging Jesse’s interviews, and joining his online course. I even introduced myself in his Facebook group as “the girl who can edit anyone’s business videos for free,” hoping to gain experience

When it came time to accept my grad school seat, I couldn’t ignore what my gut was telling me I took a leave of absence with no plan, no guarantees, just a feeling that my curiosity was pulling me toward

something bigger They told me they would hold my spot for one year while I gave my entrepreneurial self a shot. I figured if it didn’t work out, I could always go back. But deep down, I already knew I wouldn’t.

That leap led me to a Jesse Itzler book signing, where he spotted me in line and said, “Hey, Amanda! I recognize you from my course, you’re the youngest one! I told my wife about you.” His wife, of course, was Sara Blakely. (inside I was

fangirling, she’s one of my biggest inspirations).

Then Jesse said something that changed everything: “Maybe you want an internship or something? DM me, let’s see what we can make work.”

Living With Outliers

Within three months, I packed my life into 3 suitcases and moved to Atlanta to live with Jesse and Sara as their “Positive Vibes Intern.” My exact job description was: “We don’t know what you’re good at

yet, but we love your enthusiasm So let’s figure it out”

At 20 years old, I was rocketshipped from a roomful of college students straight to the dining table of Jesse and Sara. They treated me as a peer, inviting me into their daily routines and fastpaced lifestyle

But being surrounded by performers and entrepreneurs 20 or 30 years my senior came with its own challenge My familiar friend imposter syndrome would creep in like an unwanted acquaintance.

I had two choices. Option one: let those inner doubts consume me and stay a quiet fly on the wall. Option two: choose curiosity. I didn’t have to have all the answers or act like the smartest person in the room I just had to be curious

That became my secret weapon The antidote to imposter syndrome is a deep breath, getting out of your head, and letting your curiosity rise to the surface. Everyone loves an enthusiastic listener. Curiosity turns you from trying to be “the most interesting person in the

room” into becoming “the most interested person in the room”

It was that mindset that continued to open doors for me. I looked for ways to add value beyond what was expected, listening for problems no one else noticed. One day Jesse casually said, “None of our ads feel like me” That night, I stayed up late creating one that showed his personality, not just the product It went on to become the highestperforming ad we had ever run up to that point

That became my approach to everything: listening, creating, and solving before anyone asked me to. If Jesse mentioned something in passing, I treated it like a

challenge I learned his voice, his energy, and what mattered most to him Over time, those little wins added up to trust, which is how I went from Positive Vibes Intern to become his Creative Director within 18 months.

So when it came to starting his own running brand, I excitedly championed Jesse’s prompts and took the lead on bringing his vision to life I’d sit on his office floor late into the night, cutting and pasting concepts for All Day Running Co. and asking myself, “What would make people feel like they’re part of a team?”

That’s how All Day Running

Co was born Jesse invited me to co-found it with him, and since the conception of the brand in 2021, the team has built a community where thousands of people of all athletic levels have crossed finish lines and celebrated big moments in our signature colorful gear. To this day, I feel such pride to see my handwriting printed across the clothing and at events like Hell on the Hill and Runningman Festival

The Hardest Decision

But curiosity has not just

fueled my wins It has also carried me through doubt Stepping away from the incredible opportunities I had built with Jesse and Sara to follow my own path was one of the hardest decisions I have ever made.

The week of my final All Day Running Co. presentation with the team, I learned in passing that my parents were separating. In a single moment, everything I thought was steady felt like it collapsed For the first time, my natural enthusiasm disappeared, and I felt like the ground

had shifted under me. My curiosity, the thing that had always driven me, went quiet.

The Rebuild

So I turned inward, letting curiosity guide me back Away from social media Away from trying to perform for anyone else

Through intense colorful art, mixing vintage magazines, paint, and self-portrait photography, I re-found myself piece by piece. To me, collage art is a metaphor for seeing the beauty of life - ripping up old pages and recreating them into new visions

Trusting the process reminded me that staying curious, especially in dark moments, is what makes transformation possible

Last spring, I showed three of my pieces at Greenpoint Gallery in Brooklyn. It felt like the biggest release. I continued creating. Among my favorite works is a piece I donated to a Manhattan based charity event in January My work titled, “The Good Makes Good,” went on to become the highest bid art piece, with all the proceeds going to support those affected by the LA fires

All this time I had been confused about what felt like a wrench that was thrown into my plans. But really, by following my curiosity of expressing myself through art, it opened up a whole additional arm to my career and personal expression I now show my art publicly and do 1:1 commissions for clients

Full-Color Alchemy

Every leap, every late night solving problems no one else noticed, every setback, and every piece of art brought me here, to creating something extraordinary on my own I launched Aytuhzee, my creative agency, to help brands and individuals express themselves boldly and live in full color, from A to Z

Because that is what being an Outlier is all about. It is choosing to look at life differently, asking what if, and turning the ordinary into something extraordinary.

Curiosity is where it starts

Alchemy is what it becomes I am all in

Billie Jean King

Melody Ehsani

Alli Webb

Corey Pane

“Curiosity is one of the greatest secrets of happiness.”

BRYANT H. MCGILL

ALBERT EINSTEIN

“Replace fear of the unknown with curiosity.”

BILLY COX

We keep moving forward, opening up new doors and doing new things, because we're curious... and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.

WALT DISNEY

“Develop an interest in life as you see it; the people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.”

HENRY MILLER

SAHIL BLOOM

NYT Bestselling Author, The Curiosity Chronicle Creator and Writer, Investor, Speaker, and Entrepreneur

Iloveyourbackstory, especiallyyourparents' stories.Yougrewupina mixedculturewithdifferent religiousbeliefs,yourmom beingfromIndia,yourdad fromtheBronx.Tellusalittle bitabouthowthatshapedyou fromanearlyage,because theirstoryisapretty remarkableone. Yeah,myparents'storyisanunlikely collisionoftwoworlds Bothofthem,I wouldsay,verymuchhadtheirlives mappedoutforthembytheir parents.Mymomwastheyoungest

ofthreegirlsbornandraisedin Bangalore,India.Herlifewasmost likelygoingtobesomethingofan arrangedmarriageandyouknow, livingherlifeasawifeinIndia She appliedinsecrettocometocollege intheUnitedStatesandgota scholarshiptoMountHolyoke.She cametotheUSsortofspurningher parentswishes Theywereultimately supportiveofit,butitwasdefinitelya rebelliousaction.Andthenmydad hadaratherdomineeringfather figure.Mydadwassortofthegolden childandhadthissafepathmapped outforhim:gointoacademiaand justkindofbethegoodson,marrya Jewishgirl,etcetera.Andhe spurnedthosewishesbymeeting andfallinginlovewithmymom, whowasbornandraisedinIndia His father,unfortunately,wasnot supportiveofthisbuddingcourtship andbasicallytoldmydadthathe hadtochoosebetweenmymom andhisfamily Andmydadmade thegutwrenchingdecisiontowalk outandchoosemymom.Hechose loveandneversawhisfamilyagain. Andsotothisday,Ihavenevermet mydad'sparents Hehasthree siblingsIhavenevermet.Ihavefirst cousinsoutthere,Ibelieve,thatI've

“CURIOSITY FOR THE SAKE OF CURIOSITY ENDS UP LEADING TO THE GREATEST THINGS IN LIFE.”

-SAHILBLOOM

never met. All on their decisions to reject the default paths that were handed to them, and to kind of carve their own into the earth in both cases. And I would just say that in terms of how that shaped me, it was a few ways.

I mean, first off, this decision to choose love above all else, to reject these default paths that were created for you and to choose to live by your own design... I think to some extent that unwillingness to accept these defaults blindly was kind of hardwired into my DNA.

I will say that it took 30 years for that hardwiring to actually manifest in my actions in the world. But I think it was somewhere in there. That is a difficult thing to act upon when you're young. When I was a kid, and when everyone is a kid, I think our mental model for the world is to figure out how to fit in.

The idea of being an outlier when you're a kid is terrifying Your entire desire is to find a way to fit in. Look at the map of your school, or whatever your community is, and figure out: Where do I fit so that I can just feel comfortable, so that I can just know where I fit into this world.

beinganNCAAD1pitcherfor Stanford.Whatlessonsdid youlearnfromcompetingat suchahighlevel?

Iwouldsaytherewerereallytwo thingsthatIwouldprimarilypointto. Numberone:competingatthathigh ofalevelinasportlikebaseball, especiallyasapitcher,buildsinyoua resilienceandgritthatisveryhardto findelsewhere.Themainreasonfor thatisbecauseyouaregoingtofail onthemostpublic,embarrassing, spotlightedstage.Theabilitytohave thatfailure,experiencethat,feelthat viscerally,andstillcomebackthe

You are a very good athlete, good student, but probably great athlete. You wound up

next day and believe in yourself and have the confidence to show back up and continue to think that you are excellent that is an unbelievable skill for life. Because in many ways, that is what life is all about. It's not about never getting knocked down. It's about rising every time you fall Baseball teaches you that. And I was not particularly talented, so during my college years, I really had to learn that I learned from the early going in my college years that if I was going to succeed, it was going to be because I was relentless, just because I just kept showing up. I had this sensation from the early days there that if I was going to win, it was going to be because it was very hard to bet against someone who just kept coming at you You know, you might beat me here and there, you might hit a home run, you might hit something, but it's very hard to just over and over and over again keep that person down And so that was number one.

Number two: a locker room and a team of 35 guys has a very similar tenor to what a country looks like, in the sense that you have people from all different backgrounds, experience sets, family situations, races, religions all of those things are represented in a locker room of 35. And you have to figure out a way to get along with, and work alongside, a bunch of different types

of people who are wired very differently than you and get along and come together around a shared mission to win It doesn't matter whether you don't like every single person on the team. You're not going to like every single person on the team But you learn to respect everyone, and respect that everyone comes from different perspectives and backgrounds. And that, as a skill for living a highly empathetic and successful life, in business, and just as a human being and community member, is really hard to overstate the value of. I see so many problems now when I look around me, like people experiencing levels of discontent with their daily life and anger towards others, that I look at it and I just say, I always, for whatever reason, find myself trying to understand why someone else feels the way that they feel. I default to empathy because of the experience of having worked with and having been around so many different types of people.

Yourcareercuriosityhas carriedyoutosome interestingpivots.Tellus aboutthatcareerevolution.

Ispentthefirstsevenyearsofmy careerataninvestmentfundinthe worldofprivateequity.Itookthat jobstraightoutofschool,partially becauseIthoughtitsoundedthe mostimpressive.Gojoinaplace that'sgoingtogiveyouthegood LinkedInpost,tosomeextent.Go takethehighprestige,highstatus role,alsobecauseitwasagreat groupofpeoplethatwerevery collegial,veryteamoriented.Andto measacuriousindividualwho wantedtolearnalot,itwasavery intellectuallychallenging, stimulatingenvironment.Forthe firstfourorfiveyearsoftheseven,it verymuchfulfilledthatpromise.I waslearningaton,drinkingfroma firehose Itwasanextraordinarily challenging,fastpacedenvironment thatIreallythrivedin,partially becauseofmyathleticbackground.I thinkIjustgravitatetowardsthat.I wouldsaythatafteraboutfiveyears intheworldoffinance,mostofthe thingsyou'redoingbecome somewhatcommonplace.Youhave sortofexperiencedthegeneralarcof thingsthatcanhappen,andthen you'rebasicallygoingtofindwaysto kindofiterateonthatoverthenext 35years,orhoweverlongitmightbe, andyou'regoingtoamassawhole

bunchofmoneyalongtheway.

Inolongerfeltthesamesortof naturalpulltowardstheworkthatI feltlikeIhadexperiencedoverthose earlyfourorfiveyears.Thatwasjust me.Iknowtherearepeople,andI havefriendsandcolleaguesfrom thoseyearswhoIlove,whocontinue tofeelthatpullandthatenergy towardsit,butInolongerdid.And myfundamentalbeliefisthatyour energyreallydeterminesyour destinyinlife.Thethingsyouchoose togiveyourenergytowillbe amplified.Andsoifyouarenot feelinganenergyorpulltowards something,itisveryhardtothengo doitatanexceptionallevelforthe restofyourlife AndIkindofknew that.AndsowhenCovidhit,that endedupbeingasortofpivotpoint forme.Ihadmoretimetoexplore otherthingsinmylifethatmight createenergy Writingwasthething that

reallystartedtograbme.Iwasstuck athome Iwasn'tcommuting,we weren'ttravelingthreeorfourdaysa week.AndsoIspentthatextratime writing.IwasoriginallyonTwitter. EventuallyIstartedanewsletterand Iwasseeingthatpeoplewerereally connectingwiththeideasIwas sharing,thewaythatIwas storytelling.Istartedtojustfeelthis pull,thatsamepullthatI'dfeltfrom myearlycareeryears AndIwas seeingtheimpactitwascreatingon people.Icouldsitatmydeskand writesomething,hitsend,andcreate apositiveimpactinsomeone'slife thatI'dnevermet,never experienced,neverspenttimewith allaroundtheworld.Istartedto havethisfeelingof,like,thisisthe mostamazingtimetobealiveever.

Imeancenturiesago,ifawriterwas goingtosharetheirwork,they weren'tgoingtobecomewellknown forituntilaftertheyweredead becauseittooksolongforthework tobeprinted,spread,getaround,get shared,etc.Itcouldtake100yearsfor ittoreachamillionpeople.

NowIcansitatmydeskandshare something,andhaveitreacha millionpeopleinstantlywiththe touchofabutton.Andsoyouget intothisideameritocracywhereI wassittingaroundsaying,“Thisis incrediblethatIcouldbeonthe forefrontofthisanddothis.”Andit's

somethingthatIsoenjoy.SoIreally startedfeelingapulltowardsit,andI endedupleavingmyfulltimejobto pursuethisinafullcapacityinMay of2021.IntheensuingfouryearsI've builtaplatformnowthatreaches severalmillionpeopleacrossallthe differentsocialplatforms.Istarteda newsletter,releasedabookthathas reachedalotofpeople,whichis reallyincredible.Ihavebuiltaseries ofbusinessesadjacenttothese differentideasthatareimpacting people,andinvestedinabunchof companiesthataredoingthesame.

Let's talk about that book, because it's not just any old book. You literally hit a grand slam in your first at bat. The Five Types of Wealth has been

arunaway,instantNewYork Timesbestseller.What inspiredyoutowritethat bookinparticular?AndIthink youworkedonitforabout threeyearsorso?

YeahinMayof2021,thepivotpoint thatImentionedofdecidingtoleave myjobwasreallysparkedbythisone conversationwithanoldfriend.They pointedoutthatifIcontinuedliving thewaythatIwas,3,000milesaway frommyfamily,frommyparents, whoare,youknow,reallymybest friendsintheworld,notseeingthem veryoftenatall…ifIcontinuedliving thatway,Iwasgoingtoseemy parents15timesbeforetheydied Andthatmomentwasthesparkthat

changedeverything.Becauseinthat momentIrealizedthatmyentire definitionofsuccess,ofwhatit meanttobuildawealthylife,had beenincomplete.Iwasfocusingon onethingattheexpenseof everythingelse Andthatsparked action.MywifeandImadethe decisiontomove.Ileftmyjob.We moved3,000milesacrossthe countrytoliveclosertobothofour setsofparents Andinthatone decision,therewasaveryimportant realization,whichisthatyouarein muchmorecontrolofthesethings thanyouthink.Wehadtakenaction andcreatedtime Thatnumber15, it'snowinthehundreds.Iseemy parentsmultipletimesamonth. They'reahugepartofmyson,their grandson's,life.Wetookactionand createdtime

Andthatsetmeonthisjourneyto justthinkaboutwhyIhadfallen victimtothistrap,likethisreally devious,subtletrapofchasingthis onethingthatweprize:making moneyattheexpenseofallthese otherthingsinmylife.I'dstartedto seemyrelationships,myhealth,allof theseotherareasdeteriorating And whatIcametorealizewasthatitall comesdowntomeasurement.What youmeasureinlifereallymatters becausethethingsthatyou measureendupbeingthethings thatyouhoneinon,optimize around.

Soifwe'remeasuringforjusttheone battleofmakingmoney,youmay winthatbattle,butlosethemuch bigger-picturewar.Andsothatwas thesparkthatbasicallyledmetotry tofigureoutifthecurrent scoreboardofmoneyiskindof incomplete.Whatisamore comprehensivewaythatwecan thinkaboutandmeasureourlives? Becausewhenyoumeasurethe rightthings,youcantaketheright actions,andthenyoucreatethe rightoutcomes.

Ithasobviouslyresonated withatonofpeople.And obviously,peopleover-index onthefinancialpiece.Explain brieflythefivedifferenttypes ofwealth.

thespecificnuanceofreallytryingto understandandarticulateyour definitionof“enough”,whatitmeans tohaveenoughfinancially.

Soyouhavetimewealthfirst,which isallaboutfreedomtochoosehow youspendyourtime:whoyouspend itwith,whereyouspendit,whenyou tradeitforotherthings.Social wealthisaboutrelationships.Mental wealthisaboutpurposeandgrowth, butalsoaboutcreatingthespace necessarytosortofwrestlewith someofthesebiggerpicture questionsinyourlife,whether throughspirituality,solitude, meditation,whathaveyou.Thenyou have physicalwealth,whichisabout yourhealthandvitality.Andthen finallyyouhavefinancialwealth, whichistheoneweknow Butwith

What'sthebiggest misconceptionpeoplehave aboutwealth?

Ithinkthebiggestmisconceptionis asimpleone,whichisthatmoneyis theendall,beallofwhatitmeansto liveawealthylife,andthatmoney equalstheseotherthings.There's thiscommonmisconceptionthat moneyisfreedom.Peoplethink, “Okay,well,moneyequalsfreedom” That'snotreallyright.Moneydoesn't equalfreedom.

Moneyasatoolcanhelpyoubuilda freelife,butmoneyinandofitself

canactuallymakeyouaslave. I mean,ifyoumake$10millionayear, butyou'relivinga$10millionayear lifestyle,youaregoingtobeaslave tothat$10millionayearjob You don'thavefreedombecauseifyou decidetoquit,younolongercanlive yourlife,andyou'regoingtobe afraidofthat,soyou'regoingtostay inthejobthatmaybeyouhate I thinkthatisacommon misconception,thatmoneyisthe goal.Inreality,moneyisatoolto buildtheseothertypesofwealthin theearlydaysofyourlife Moneyis thegoalbecausemoneybuys happinessinthoseearlystages.It reducesstressandburdens,itallows youtoaffordbasicthings,basic pleasures Abovethatlevel,money hastobecomeatooltobuildthese othertypesofwealthratherthanthe goalinandofitself.

You have a wildly popular newsletter and a podcast called The Curiosity Chronicle, where you really encourage

yourreadersandlistenersto thinkdifferently,challenge assumptions,andadoptnew perspectives.Whyisthatso important?

Ireallythinkthatthegreatest rewardsinlifecomefromhavingthe couragetoaskhardquestions.It's veryeasytojustkindofwalkblindly throughlifeandjustacceptallthe thingsyou'vebeentold.Never questionthesepathsthatyou'retold youshouldwanttowalk.Andso muchgoodcomesfromjusttakinga coupleofsecondstoaskthe questionofwhetheryouactually wantthesethings.Becausethetruth isthatyouarealwaysatthewheelin yourownlife,andyouarecapableof takingactiontodetermineyour outcomesandtochangeyour outcomesifyoudon'tlikewhere you'recurrentlyheaded.Butyoucan onlydothatifyouaskthequestion, andifyouassesswhereyou're headed,whatthevisionis,andwhat you'retryingtobuildtowards.

WATCH THIS NEXT PART!

I think you said this, I think you said that curiosity is the fountain of youth. If you didn't, I'm giving you credit for it. Why do you think childhood curiosity fades as we become adults? And how do you continuously spark curiosity?

Tune in to Scott and Sahil’s conversation about this question here:

I was listening to Rich Roll's podcast with you, and he called you an outlier on his podcast. Why do you think it's important to be an outlier and take the path less traveled?

Attheendoftheday,Ithinkweare allmadeinadifferentmold,and we'remadetoliveourownlives,and tobedifferentandtochooseour ownpath AndwhatIchoosemay notbewhatyouchoose,orwhatyou wanttochoose.Everysingleperson hasadifferentsetofconsiderations, perspectives,experiencesthat governhowtheythinkaboutthe world.Iwillneverjudgeanother personforhowtheywanttopursue theirdefinitionofsuccessandof wealth.NorwouldIexpectthemto judgemine Theimportantpointis thatweallgettochoose.Yougetto chooseyourownconsiderations.You gettobeyourownoutlier,yourown oneofone.Itisperfectlyreasonable andokaytolivealifethatlooks confusingtoothers.Gotosleepearly, Wakeupsuperearly,readbooks,do crazyadventures,don'tgooutand watchNetflixallthetime.Justlivea lifethatlooksweirdtothenormal person.Ithinkthatthatisthemost beautifulthingintheworld,because youarechoosingyourownpath.You areleaningintoyourpattern interrupts,thethingsthatmakeyou uniqueanddifferent.Andwhenyou getcomfortablewiththat,theworld startstoshineinanentirelynewway.

It's hard to believe you're only 34 years old. What do you think the future looks like for you, personally and professionally?

I have absolutely no idea, and I love it that way. I know what will be my center, my wife and my son and my family. But beyond that, I would love to have the opportunity to continue to share and hopefully positively impact people. But to predict the future, what I always say is, “Five years ago, if you had asked me to write down 100 scenarios for where I would be in five years, I would have written down 100 scenarios, and not

a single one of them would have been even remotely correct because I hadn't started writing yet” I didn't even know I was interested in this thing that is now such a big part of my life, and how I identify as a person and the value that I put out into the world So for me to sit here and say that I can predict five years from now, it seems like a fool's errand, and I'd rather not try.

I love the fact that I think what you're saying is you're very comfortable living into the answers and not knowing what that's going to look like.

My favorite quote of all time is the ancient poet Rumi, who said, “As you start to walk on the way, the way appears.” And I very much try to live by that.

REBECCASTYN

The Outlier Project Guest - June 10, 2025

Founder & CEO of the award-winning Blind Tiger Spirit-Free Cocktails, PhD in “leadership,” One of just 50 entrepreneurs selected nationwide for the Tory Burch Foundation’s coveted Fellowship

“NEVERQUIT.NEVERGIVE UP.KEEPGOINGFORWARD ANDWORKHARDER.”

“HAVEGRITANDTHE ABILITYTOBEOKWITH FAILURE.“

DWIGHTEVANS

The Outlier Project Guest - June 24, 2025

20-year MLB veteran, 3-time AllStar, 8-time Gold Glove winner, One of the most respected players in Red Sox history

MARCTYLER NOBLEMAN

The Outlier Project Guest - July 8, 2025

Author behind “Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-Creator of Batman,” the book that reshaped comic book history, sparked a TED Talk, and inspired the Hulu documentary Batman & Bill

-PALAKPATEL

“NOTHINGCOMES WITHOUTACOST.”

DR.HOBYWEDLER

The Outlier Project Guest - July 22, 2025

Entrepreneur, Chemist, Sensory Expert, and Educator

KERENELDAD

The Outlier Project Guest - August 5, 2025

Executive Coach, Speaker, Author of GILDED, Creator of With Enthusiasm Coaching

-PALAKPATEL

“THEDOORSTHATYOU WANTWON'TOPENUNTIL YOUBECOMETHEVERSION OFYOURSELFWHO'S READYTOWALKTHROUGH THOSEDOORS.”

The Prince and the Power:

Ozzy & Sharon's Outlier Empire

By Jess Vigorito

If Elvis was the King of Rock and Roll, Ozzy Osbourne was the king, prince, and godfather of heavy metal. Ozzy wasn’t destined for stardom. He was born in 1948, poor and dyslexic, before a time when it was widely recognized and so, he was painfully undereducated. “Everyone, including my family, just thought I was slow,” he said. He left school at 16 and worked factory jobs before turning to theft, which quickly landed him in jail

A middle child of six, Ozzy grew up in Birmingham, England, in a home with no indoor toilet and no soap. He later reflected, “I was petrified most of the time because I was a very nervous guy. Fear of impending doom ruled my life… After six weeks in prison, I knew I didn’t wanna go back. The only thing I had a passion for was music ”

That passion became a way out. His father believed in him, even though Ozzy had such a troubled life. Heavily influenced by the Beatles, Ozzy convinced his father to buy him a mic and a PA For a working-class kid in Birmingham with no real resources, having his own gear made him way more appealing. It meant he could show up ready to rehearse or perform So when he put up that legendary handwritten ad in the local

music shop:

"Ozzy Zig Needs Gig – has own PA" … a local band forming in his neighborhood, soon to be Black Sabbath, was sold They needed the PA system. As a bonus, they were impressed with Ozzy’s voice and his knowledge of the Blues. They practiced almost daily near a cinema, where Tony Iommi (one of the band members) reflected, “Isn't it interesting that people pay money to see horror films?” They then decided to channel that idea into music. That scarier, darker, more macabre sound would become the foundation of heavy metal Fifty-seven years later, everything metal can be traced back to Black Sabbath and Ozzy Osbourne.

In his early 20s, Ozzy married and had two children, but fame, loss, and addiction spiraled into darkness “My wife wanted a divorce, my father died, and my band kicked me out.

That was one of the lowest points of my life ” But it was also the moment everything began to change Sharon, daughter of his then-manager, told him, “If you clean yourself up, I’ll manage you.” Ozzy was astounded, “I thought my career was in the shit pan,” he said

Her vision and fierce faith helped Ozzy defy every odd stacked against him, and in doing so, gave the world something far greater than music He gave us proof that greatness can come from anywhere, but also that it is rarely ever achieved alone. Because behind Ozzy’s rise, through every high and every hellish low, stood Sharon

After he was fired from Black Sabbath for his excessive use of drugs, she believed in him when no one else did (including Ozzy himself) She helped rebuild his career as a solo artist, managed him fiercely, and eventually co-created Ozzfest, giving tens of thousands of fans and emerging bands a space to belong

Through decades of chaos, addiction, fame, and reinvention, Sharon was always there. Not just managing the brand, but holding the man. For all Ozzy gave the world, a major part of it was because she gave him the foundation to rise

With the partnership and friendship of guitarist Randy Rhoads and the release of Blizzard of Ozz, Ozzy’s solo career exploded His energy came roaring back Eventually, he and Sharon married. Ozzy called her his soulmate: “I owe my life to Sharon.” Through relapses and tragedies, including a violent episode where he nearly killed her during a bender, Sharon stood by him “Mama, I’m Coming Home,” the ballad he wrote upon returning from court-ordered rehab, became a love letter to her and part of his redemption

In his darkest moments, Sharon never let Ozzy stay down. She helped him evolve. He tried again. And as he grew older, he gave more. He gave back to the genre he helped create After being rejected by Lollapalooza for being “not cool enough,” Sharon

Photocredit:DaveHogan

and Ozzy launched Ozzfest, a touring metal festival.

Ozzfest was more than a concert. It was a sanctuary for the weird kids, the misfits, the ones who didn’t fit in anywhere else There, they belonged, and they were seen. “For Ozzy, Ozzfest was a turning point,” Sharon said. “He wasn’t just a legend anymore. He was shaping the future of metal ” Ozzy was inspiring and handing the torch to the next generation. He didn’t just make room; he cleared the path for the future of metal. Slipknot, Disturbed, System of a Down, Pantera, and dozens more now-legendary bands got their first real exposure at Ozzfest For over 20 years, he owned the main stage, but the second stage? That was his gift to the future.

Then came The Osbournes The wildeyed metal god with a bat-biting reputation became the lovable, bewildered dad on reality TV. Suddenly, Ozzy was no longer just the guy on your teenager’s bedroom poster He was in your living room, mumbling, cursing, and loving his family fiercely. We all loved watching them together because they were wildly relatable. Authentic. Real. Genuine. Ozzy became iconic all over again, but this time to an entirely new audience And soon after, the boy from Birmingham who once played on bombsites as a child and was forced to wear a dunce cap in school, was invited to the White House

Yet, even as his public life soared, personal battles raged on When Sharon was diagnosed with colon cancer, Ozzy unraveled. “I selfmedicated more than ever,” he said. His daughter Kelly reflected, “You could see how much he loved her even though he made the whole process so much harder.” Sharon beat cancer, but not long after, Ozzy was diagnosed with Parkinson’s. “Is it terminal?” he asked the staff. In true Ozzy fashion, the reply came back, “No, but life is ”

Despite it all, Ozzy never gave up. He kept performing. He kept giving. He kept showing up. His final concert,

just two weeks before his death, raised over $190 million (so far) for Parkinson’s research and children’s hospitals. Even when he could barely walk, he stood tall for his fans. “Apart from my immediate family,” he said, “it’s the best love affair of my life my audience ”

Ozzy Osbourne was many things: loud, wild, messy, magical, honest, and flawed. “He constantly works at being better,” Sharon said “A better father, a better grandfather, a better man.” His life is a reminder that outliers often grow into greatness not in isolation, but in connection. We all need to be seen and have someone believe in us Ozzy didn’t just create metal, but embodied its soul Perfectly imperfect. Fiercely human. Undeniably legendary.

That’s what makes Ozzy an outlier.

Not the eyeliner Not the antics Not the bat

But the way he got up. Again and again. The way he gave. Again and again. The way he turned pain into power, and brokenness into something that sings across generations.

He showed us that your past doesn’t define you. Your choices do.

His son Jack put it simply: “He’s been fucked at times, but his contributions have been far greater than any of his faults. That’s how he should be remembered.” Ozzy leaves the stage as a legend, and as a man who kept choosing love, redemption, and generosity until his final encore.

Outlier Magazine Autumn 2025

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