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BRAD SIMPSON + NINA JACOBSON “Conventional wisdom is rarely wise,” contend the powers behind Color Force, whose mutual admiration and complementary skills have created a wildly successful juggernaut.

FEATURES 74 OPEN LINE

85 THE LEGACY OF DEBRA HILL

100 NOW HEAR THIS

Amanda Kay Price and Danielle Blumstein talk one-to-one about the need for open channels between post and line producing.

How the PGA fellowship in her name keeps the spirit of the late producer alive among promising young filmmakers.

Hollywood’s Deaf/Hard of Hearing community speaks out about the imperative of including DHH talent in every phase of production.

December | January 2024

17

34

“MY JOB IS TO BE THERE WHEN HE NEEDS ME.”

—PRODUCER JUDY HOFFLUND ON PRODUCING THE POIROT FILMS WITH KENNETH BRANAGH.

DEPARTMENTS 24 TREASURER’S LETTER

43 NEW MEMBERS

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A look at the PGA’s 2022–23 fiscal year sees the Guild on solid financial footing.

Meet the PGA’s newest members and discover what makes them tick.

The PGA’s platform provides a secure, convenient way to procure awards screeners.

28 TOOL KIT

114 ON THE MARK II

From pen and paper to Meta Quest 3, the tools that help Victoria Bousis create in her VR/VX world.

How Valerie Stadler earned the Producers Mark for Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe.

127 IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF GIANTS

34 ON THE MARK I How Judy Hofflund earned her Producers Mark making A Haunting in Venice.

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Ivor Powell’s AI odyssey, from 2001 to Blade Runner and beyond.

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FROM THE TREASURER

A LOOK AT THE NUMBERS The Guild began the 2022–23 fiscal year in excellent financial condition. Prior to the WGA strike, the Guild successfully met and exceeded every revenue goal we set for the fiscal year. As a result, our June 30, 2023, fiscal year-end financial statements reflect a strong net revenue of $5,366,681.

As you can see in these charts, PGA Awards-related income and membership dues remain the Guild’s largest sources of revenue. Smaller revenue streams, including income from Produced By magazine and sponsorship, remained steady for most of the year.

As a result of the WGA strike, we offered members a dues deferral and adjusted our revenue downward when we prepared the Guild’s 2023–24 budget.

The subsequent SAG strike and duration of both strikes have had a larger impact on the Guild’s revenue than originally budgeted. Fortunately, over the last five years, the Guild has successfully increased operating reserves and is in a good position to weather any financial shock resulting from the strikes.

As a reminder, the Producers Guild of America is a 501(c)(6) nonprofit, and its charitable arm, the Producers Guild Foundation, is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. We have no shareholders and pay no dividends. We pay no taxes on our business-related income. All net revenue is either reserved for a rainy day to help the Guild remain afloat during a downturn, or invested in the organization to improve our member services, increase our impact on the industry, and to safeguard our financial future.

The Guild has returned to in-person as well as hybrid events, allowing members to stay closely engaged with the Guild from wherever they are based. In 2023, PGA members benefited from 290 events: 108 networking events, 55 committee

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meetings, 35 screenings featuring Q&As with producers, 32 webinars/panels/ workshops, 30 straight screenings, and 30 social events, including recent holiday celebrations on both coasts. Members have expressed much enthusiasm over being able to reconnect in person.

PGA members who would like to review a copy of the year-end financials or the budget should reach out to us at members@ producersguild.org. We are grateful for your continued support of the Guild.

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FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION

BEST DOCUMENTARY FEATURE OUTSTANDING PRODUCER OF DOCUMENTARY MOTION PICTURES MATTHEW HEINEMAN | LAUREN DOMINO | JEODAN OKUN “A T I T A N I C A C H I E V E M E N T A B O U T A R T, M U S I C A N D P E R S E V E R A N C E.”

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FR A SIER

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COL IN FR OM ACCOU N TS STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS

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TOOL K I T

AN INNOVATOR’S QUIVER Victoria Bousis calls on analog, digital, and caffeinated tools to create in her VR/VX world.

Written By Celine Yu

I

n the ever-evolving landscape of technology and storytelling, few figures have made as impactful and soulful a debut as Victoria Bousis.

Renowned for her groundbreaking direction of the virtual reality film Stay Alive, My Son, Bousis and producers like her are not only changing the way we consume content, but redefining the essence of storytelling. The MIT graduate’s passion for virtual and extended reality (VR/XR) immersive experiences has earned her a 2023 PGA Innovation Award.

Bousis’ journey into the realm of VR/XR was ignited by a 2015 TED Talk by Chris Milk. The potential of VR as an “empathy machine” resonated with her amid the Syrian refugee crisis. Witnessing a “diminishing sense of empathy, sensitivity and compassion in the world toward the displaced and silenced,” Bousis felt compelled to act. “It was an epiphany for me,” she says.

This awakening fueled Bousis’ exploration of the transformative capacity of experiential filmmaking, which she saw as a way of fostering a more empathetic future using the power of compassion-action virtual reality, or Compaction VR. Today, her content company UME Studios offers creative services in virtual reality, augmented reality, virtual production, brand experiences, Metaverse events and Web3.

For Bousis, a former prosecutor, a call for action is innate, bridging her transition from a career in law to media creation. “While my tenure as a prosecutor was deeply fulfilling, I found that its impact was often confined by geographical and political constraints,” she says. Bousis saw an opportunity to break free from those limitations and amplify the narratives of ordinary yet remarkable individuals through media creation.

To Bousis, law and filmmaking share more similarities than one might guess. “My background honed my abilities as an orator, writer and storyteller,” she says. “It made

28 producersguild.org | PRODUCED BY

me adept at distilling complex information for a diverse array of audiences.” During her law career, an audience may have comprised a judge, a jury, the defense or witnesses.

Now it might include investors, producers, talent, agents, crew and viewers.

The film that earned Bousis and her nine-member team the PGA Innovation Award showcased technological breakthroughs in creating the first-ever high-fidelity, interactive digital humans. To achieve this, the team had to develop a new pipeline while being highly intentional about the textures, polygons and skeletons of characters to maintain a high frame rate in VR. Based on a memoir by Pin Yathay, Stay Alive, My Son ventured into the Cambodian war and genocide while aiming to create a new genre—somewhere between cinema and gaming. In doing so, Bousis invited audiences to step into the shoes of a hero: Yathay, a father forced to abandon his son in the hope of a better life for him while Yathay becomes a refugee seeking help from international communities to unify his family. “Story is the driving force, while game mechanics are secondary,” Bousis says.

To Bousis, gaming is not mere entertainment, but a deliberate intention and catalyst for societal evolution,

TOOL K I T

combining pleasure with purpose and profitability. “This principle of elevated content is universal, applicable to films, series, theater, literature—any medium that we absorb,” she says. For producers venturing into XR experiences and narrative gaming, Bousis emphasizes the importance of aligning the story with the medium, advising that a narrative should only be adapted into an XR experience if immersion and interactivity will enhance it. “Otherwise, it lacks authenticity and effectiveness,” she says.

Once the material is adapted, preproduction and prototyping are crucial. “In the XR realm, the intricate balance of gameplay and narrative must be meticulously calibrated from the early stages of prototyping,” Bousis explains.

“There’s no fallback of ‘fixing it in postproduction’ as there is in film.”

The success of Stay Alive, My Son establishes a blueprint that Bousis intends to replicate to drive a movement at UME Studio. With a strategic focus on adapting franchisable IPs and existing indie film projects, she aims to position the studio as an industry leader.

In the dynamic intersection of technology, narrative art and social impact, Bousis has emerged as a visionary storyteller who bridges the gaps between traditional filmmaking and immersive experiences. In Bousis’ hands, the tools of her trade are not just instruments, but doorways for creativity and human connection. These are some of those tools:

a tangible necessity for me to physically interact with the words and images—to feel their presence and let them consume the space around me, just as they swirl through my thoughts—before they transition into and are committed digitally.”

STYLUS AND IPAD Bousis’ iPad and stylus pen are must-haves for providing quick feedback on 3D assets. “Visual support is often more productive than words.”

PEN AND PAPER Bousis’ haggard Moleskine notebook accompanies her everywhere she goes. At heart, she is a traditional geek who relishes putting pen to paper, jotting down daily tasks and mental meanderings—lists, words, diagrams, pictures, doodles—in her notebook. “There’s a certain ritual for me in putting pen to paper as I sketch out my initial thoughts and visuals.”

MARKERS AND WHITEBOARD “My life would be incomplete without my whiteboard,” Bousis states. Whiteboards are bolted in Bousis’ homes in Los Angeles, in Athens and in her grandparents’ village of Nestani in southern Greece. They act as multiuse mega canvases for everything from UME teamwide communications to some of Bousis’ monthly and yearly goals. “There’s

TRELLO “The project management tool Trello is perfect for managing team tasks during production or while traveling,” Bousis says. Trello provides teams with the tools to brainstorm, plan, execute, and commemorate their collective work in a collaborative, efficient and well-organized manner.

DISCORD The social platform Discord offers customers different modes of communication that are indispensable for Bousis. Through voice or video calls, text messaging, or media/file transfers, “Discord maintains clear, organized communication with the team across various projects, with subject-specific channels for each aspect of a project’s life cycle.”

December | January 2024

29

TOOL K I T

APPLE VISION PRO HEADSET “The prospect of exploring the Apple Pro headset’s capabilities excites me,” Bousis says. “The ability to connect intelligible and personalized content that not only reaches across product lines but also seamlessly connects spatial computing to our physical space blows my mind.”

META QUEST 3 Bousis was inspired by a recent experience with Meta Quest 3, the newest release to the Quest series. “It’s a significant advancement over its predecessor, offering enhanced resolution, augmented processing capabilities and a wider canvas for creative expression,” she says. “The advent of pixel streaming technology promises a severing from the wires, reduces the hardware’s bulk and provides access to high-quality content for a broader audience.”

ICED COFFEE Loads. Of. It. “It’s the essential fuel to endure the endless hours required to create while juggling roles as a director, writer, producer and founder of UME Studios.” ¢

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ON THE M A R K

ON THE MARK Judy Hofflund shares the details of her experiences making A Haunting in Venice , which earned her the Producers Mark certification.

Interview by Lisa Y. Garibay

A Haunting in Venice Judy Hofflund, p.g.a.

T

he film A Haunting in Venice, adapted from the Agatha Christie novel Hallowe’en Party, is a terrifying mystery featuring the return of the celebrated sleuth Hercule Poirot.

It is anything but a triumphant return. Now retired and living in self-imposed exile after World War II, a weary Poirot is cajoled by an old friend to attend a séance at a decaying palazzo—on All Hallows’ Eve, of all days. When one of the guests is murdered, the detective himself is bewitched by the palazzo’s secrets.

The 2023 film reunites the team of filmmakers behind 2017’s Murder on the Orient Express and 2022’s Death on the Nile, including director Kenneth Branagh and producer Judy Hofflund. Branagh reprises his role as Poirot alongside an ensemble that includes Kyle Allen, Camille Cottin, Jamie Dornan, Tina Fey, Jude Hill, Ali Khan, Emma Laird, Kelly Reilly, Riccardo Scamarcio and Michelle Yeoh.

After two turns adapting a Christie novel for the screen, Hofflund talks about the new circumstances that the team had to adapt to, along with tried-and-true methods they relied upon to bring their version of Poirot back to the big screen for a third time.

34 producersguild.org | PRODUCED BY

YOU SPENT 30 YEARS ON THE AGENCY SIDE OF HOLLYWOOD. HOW DID YOU SEGUE INTO PRODUCING? I quit being an agent and manager about 11 years ago. A couple of years later, Kenneth Branagh called me and suggested that I produce movies with him. How could you say no to him? I represented Ken for about 25 years, so we have a long relationship.

DID THAT BACKGROUND EMPOWER YOU WHEN YOU BEGAN PRODUCING, OR DID IT FEEL LIKE STARTING FROM SCRATCH? Both. A lot of producing was second nature to me. I’ve read 10 scripts a week for all the years of my career.

I understand material and developing a script. The casting process is second nature to me, and fun. I love having the whole world of actors to explore, not just my client list. I know all the agents and the managers, and that was very helpful to Ken because I take as much as I can off his plate, especially work that is LA-based. In the preproduction stage he can be focused on sets and helping to get the script right.

The on-set stuff was not (second nature). That was all brand new.

I didn’t really understand what it

ON THE M A R K

COURTESY OF 20TH CENTURY STUDIOS

The all-star cast of A Haunting in Venice includes Kelly Reilly (far left), Tina Fey, Michelle Yeoh and Kenneth Branagh.

Below: Branagh on location with DP Haris Zambarloukos.

meant to be a department head and how many departments there were in making a movie. I just asked everybody tons of questions, including Ken, who was generous with his time. With every movie I’ve done now, I feel like I’ve got it down a little bit. I learn more every moment, but I do get what it means now.

WITH A COUPLE FILMS UNDER YOUR BELT, HOW DOES THE ON-SET COLLABORATION BETWEEN YOU AND KEN WORK? Ken and I work very well together. He’s very efficient with time, and we both have a good shorthand. There’s less for me to do in production because it’s Kenneth Branagh. He’s made a lot of movies, and he knows what he’s doing. My job more than anything is to be there when he needs me, and when things come up that I don’t have to involve him in.

December | January 2024

35

F OR

YO U R

C O N S I DER AT I O N

OUTSTANDING PRODUCER OF EPISODIC TELEVISION (COMEDY)

“FAST-PACED,

SARDONIC AND HIGHLY ENTERTAINING.”

Peacock © Peacock TV LLC. Based on a True Story © Universal Content Productions LLC. All rights reserved.

Armie Hammer and Gal Gadot in Death on the Nile. Below: A still from Murder on the Orient Express.

ON THE M A R K

adaptation. They saw the plan for what this movie was. Michael Green is a brilliant writer, and he was able to deliver a first draft that we cast from—which is no easy feat. Ken and Michael were on the same page in what they wanted to accomplish, and I saw an opportunity to push it to be scarier.

We all wanted it to be, look, and feel different. The idea of a movie that happens mostly over one night during a big storm in Venice in a gorgeous old palazzo—a scary movie that’s going to be released before Halloween—that was the formula. The mood of the book is strong and it’s a strong story, but it was embellished, made more cinematic, and set in Venice. There were big changes, but no one resisted them, which made it all a lot easier.

WHAT WAS DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS POIROT FILM COMPARED TO THE OTHER TWO IN TERMS OF CHALLENGES?

I remember midway through Murder on the Orient Express, Ken said to me, “How would you define your job here, your on-set job?” I said, “Problem solver.” He said, “Exactly.” There’s a little bit of “What do you think of this?” Or, “Will you talk to this department head about this?” Or, “Could you modify your shooting day next week so this actor can get out of work midday?” then talking to the AD about it.

But once we’re shooting and the budget is signed off on and everything is going forward, there isn’t a ton to do in a day for me but to support Ken. Then I get busy again in postproduction

when cuts are being delivered and with publicity and marketing. Our movies are distributed by Disney, so I talk to a lot of departments about things like product placement and merchandising. I try to handle all of that so that Ken is just focused on making the movie.

THIS IS A LOOSER AGATHA CHRISTIE ADAPTATION THAN THE PRIOR TWO FILMS IN THE SERIES. DID THAT OFFER NEW OPPORTUNITIES? We were fortunate to have the Agatha Christie estate sign on early for the

It was made for about two-thirds of the budget. The same kind of schedule, but a very reduced budget. There was definitely pressure and tension in executing Ken’s vision. He is very responsible about budgets. We ended up coming in just a tiny bit lower, which was spectacular. But there was pressure in shooting a lot in fewer days with a big ensemble cast.

There were fewer visual effects than in the other movies, thank God, budget-wise. Ken shoots as naturalistically as possible. He really loves to do that for actors. We didn’t shoot inside the palazzo at all. We used the palazzo only for exteriors. The interior of the palazzo was built on stages at Twickenham. Ken likes four walls and a ceiling so actors walk into a room and feel that they’re in Alicia’s bedroom or on the balcony that she has fallen from or been pushed off.

Most of the department heads that we worked with had worked on the previous

December | January 2024

37

ON THE M A R K

a movie, where you need to ask, “What do I need to look at more deeply?”

For a lot of this, I’m looking over Ken’s shoulder. He’s made a million movies. I watch him in the grading room saying, “No, go back. Let’s make those rooflines a little bit darker.” No detail escapes him.

I don’t know how it works with other directors, but I’ve learned to look at the movie and think, “Oh, yeah, look how great that roofline looks!”

As a producer, it’s enticing to be continuously crossing things off a list. But I’ve trained myself to slow down and think about what we need to improve.

Take the time to get it right. Don’t just think, “OK, now we’re ready—let’s go.”

Judy Hofflund on location during the production of A Haunting in Venice.

movies. We all had to understand that it was a little bit different on this movie because we didn’t have the luxury of more time. It’s such a great group of people— completely committed to what they do.

They’re so good at what they do.

EVEN IF THERE IS LESS TIME AND MONEY, WHAT ARE THINGS THAT YOU WOULD NEVER SKIMP ON? First, getting the script right. We are spoiled by Michael Green. What a great writer he is. He gets every detail right.

Second, getting the casting right. When we were introducing these movies, I said to Ken again and again, “It’s got to be all-star.” In Murder on the Orient Express, anyone could look at that and think, “I love Johnny Depp. I love Michelle Pfeiffer. I love Daisy Ridley.” There was so much to make people want to see the film. Don’t skimp on actors.

Always be thinking, “Who can we get who’s really valuable?”

Also, a poster is key. I was excited to try to make the posters not look like every other movie. Sometimes you see a movie poster and there’s 15 actors with a

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house or a train or a boat in the middle.

A lot of those posters look the same. I like spare. I like something that turns my head and is arresting and maybe doesn’t answer every question. It makes me want to find out more. I encouraged that as much as I could on A Haunting in Venice.

WHAT NEW APPROACHES OR TACTICS CAME OUT OF THIS PRODUCTION THAT YOU KNOW WILL INFORM WHAT COMES NEXT? AND WHAT PRACTICES WERE ALREADY IN PLACE THAT YOU RELIED ON MOST? What I learned most on this movie was attention to detail. I feel like I have the mechanics down so I could pay attention to just how important the details are.

Now, if you get six or eight of those details wrong, what could be a good movie becomes a not-so-good movie.

The smallest little points make a big difference to you relating to a character and rooting for the good guy.

When you’re an agent and a manager, you don’t have the luxury of time to harp on every aspect. You have to just get stuff done. It’s the opposite in producing

WHAT SECRET WEAPON HAVE YOU CARRIED THROUGH EVERY ONE OF YOUR PRODUCTIONS? Every single day when I go to work on these movies, what I have in my mind is, “Only love.” Because I think you can’t lose. If it’s only love to Ken, hopefully I’m making his day a little bit easier. If it’s that department head who’s frantic and saying, “I need more time for this wardrobe,” if I’m coming back with only love, I feel like I’m helping the process.

My longer version of that is, “No ego; only love.” Because if you can check ego at the door, everything’s going to be better. ¢

Certification via the Producers Mark (represented by p.g.a.) indicates that a producer performed a major portion of the producing functions in a decision-making capacity on a specific project. Criteria, its definition, the process for earning the mark and other particulars can be viewed at producersguildawards.com.

A Force

TO BE RECKONED WITH

In 2007, Nina Jacobson took her career in a direction she deemed temporary, launching a company she called Color Force. Then Brad Simpson came on board as Jacobson’s partner, and what was initially just a detour became one of Hollywood’s most fruitful collaborations.

Written by Lisa Y. Garibay | photographed by matthew smith

A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

T

itles like American Crime Story, Crazy Rich Asians, Pose and The Hunger Games reflect a revolution in film and TV and a gutsiness embodied by producers Nina Jacobson and Brad Simpson, who partner together under the Color Force banner.

A tenet central to Color Force is to approach work from the insideout rather than the outside-in. It’s a soulfulness that the two producers bring to everything they touch, from their first collaboration together on 2010’s Diary of a Wimpy Kid up through 2023’s The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes.

Although they do cultivate many original scripts, Jacobson and Simpson are self-described rabid, omnivorous readers. They seek out IP not for the sake of making a buck, but with the goal of nurturing and preserving singular voices. When Jacobson and Simpson look for the common thread woven among their most successful ventures, it’s that “they all felt right,” precedent be damned. Ultimately, it is the uniqueness, uncommon nature, and daring of these projects that sped them to breathtaking heights.

Any semblance of a partnership might have been doomed when the two were first brought together. Simpson was developing a passion project at Dreamworks, where the indie veteran had no prior relationship.

“I knew who Nina was. She struck a huge figure in Hollywood. Everyone knows the stories of the risks she took at the box office, being the first out queer woman running a studio, giving notes to M. Night Shyamalan on Lady in the Water and him taking it away from Disney. So when Dreamworks called and said, ‘We’re going to put Nina Jacobson on your project,’ I went into my bedroom and cried.”

Simpson was certain that the “big

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Hollywood muckety-muck” was going to freeze him out of a project into which he had poured so much love.

“But the opposite happened. She called me and just talked and talked and talked. I feel like we started this conversation about that script that hasn’t ended,” says Simpson.

Jacobson had come up as a “development girl” before working up to the executive suite. “But I had never produced a film from start to finish or been on set from start to finish, ever,”

"it allowed us to get to know each other very well because it’s much easier to get to know who a person really is when things go wrong than when things go right.”

<> she recalls. “I realized pretty quickly that I was going to be learning on my own movie and that I would rather my movie not suffer through my education.” She was excited to benefit from Simpson’s production fluency

and ease on set.

In the end, the project that brought them together was not to be. “It went from a flashing green light to a solid, permanently red light through a series of tragic misadventures,” Jacobson recalls. “But it allowed us to get to know each other very well because it’s much easier to get to know who a person really is when things go wrong than when things go right.”

“That’s when you really see somebody’s mettle,” says Simpson.

“Under pressure in an intense situation, her instinct was honesty and collaboration. That’s what attracted me to her as a person and as a producer.”

Prolific creator and fellow media revolutionary Ryan Murphy has known Jacobson since her Disney days. “My favorite thing about Nina during this period is that she never once bought a pitch from me,” Murphy recalled when he presented Jacobson with the Human Rights Campaign Visibility Award in 2016. “Although at the time I was furious, I’m now relieved because she saved the world from so many shitty, awful romantic comedies.”

Murphy continued: “Now Nina is a powerful producer with her incredibly brilliant producing partner, Brad Simpson. I think what Nina and Brad are doing with story and character at Color Force is as equally powerful and stirring as anything Nina has accomplished.”

After almost a decade, Jacobson and Simpson remain committed to the spirit that has driven them to challenge the status quo, bringing blockbusters and game changers to life in the process.

About the name: When it became clear there was going to be a company and that company needed a name, Jacobson dove into dictionaries and encyclopedias for something that felt right. She stopped when she came to “color force.” It’s a term in quantum

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A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

physics describing the bond between quarks, the fundamental particles that makes all the matter we can see. The greater the pull between quarks, the greater the force that binds them.

“I loved the idea of an invisible force that holds together what wants to fall apart,” Jacobson says. “That felt like a great metaphor for producing.”

Risky Business RISK APPEARS TO BE A PRIMARY TRAIT OF COLOR FORCE. IS IT TOUGHER TO TAKE RISKS NOW?

SIMPSON: Of course it’s tougher to take risks. On the film side, we saw the collapse of the DVD market, and now, post-pandemic, it’s hard to get people to theaters. On the TV side, we see that the streaming economy has not been a great replacement for the previous TV economy. But I also feel it’s a really exciting time. I think that the movies and TV that have been succeeding were counterintuitive bets by the people who made them, whether it’s Oppenheimer or The Bear or a lot of the art house movies that are coming out. People ultimately respond to risky bets.

JACOBSON: It has always been true that there are no sure bets, so you might as well take risks. In this marketplace, there’s really nothing you can do to ensure success other than try to make the best possible show or movie you can make in a way that is exciting to you and would make you perk up and turn on your TV or pack up for the theater.

Conventional wisdom may be conventional, but it is rarely wise.

I think that when the writing is good enough, taking risks to break some of the rules is appealing. An example is Crazy Rich Asians. We loved that book. We didn’t even bother with the conversation about how we were going to get anybody to make a movie with an allAsian cast. We knew it couldn’t be a traditional development deal.

It never occurred to us to talk ourselves out of it when we had both fallen in love with it so much.

SIMPSON: I wish I could say we sat down at some point and came up with a mission statement for the company, but I don’t think that’s how it works. I think you start making stuff based on your tastes and your instincts, and then you figure out what your mission is. With a lot of the stuff we take on, we only realize that it’s counterintuitive when people are like, “You can’t make that. No one’s going to go see a movie with kids killing kids. Nobody’s going to see a movie with an allAsian cast. No one’s going to watch a show that centers trans people.”

Producing is a crazy, insane business that can be very lonely.

When the writer or director or an actor or the studio is mad at you, there’s something about leaving set at night and being able to look at somebody else you trust and ask, “We’re not crazy, are we?” When you meet somebody that you feel you can do that with, you want to keep doing it.

PETER HEDGES

AND ‘THE LITTLE FILMS’ Peter Hedges was rewriting scripts for Jacobson at Disney when she sent Dan in Real Life his way for revision. “She really liked my draft and said that I could cast whoever I wanted,” says Hedges. “I asked, ‘Why would a writer cast a film?’ And she said, “You’re going to direct it.”

Dan in Real Life became Hedges’ second project as a writer-director, cementing an invaluable foundation that grew stronger for Hedges when Jacobson launched Color Force and partnered with Simpson.

When Hedges finished the script for Ben Is Back, a powerful drama centered around a mother’s agonizing struggle to save her son from drug addition, he sent it to Jacobson first. “I said, ‘There’s no vision of you ever wanting to produce this movie; I just want you to know what I’ve been working on and what I’m passionate about.’”

Hedges recalls that Jacobson called him less than two hours later saying, “I have to produce this. I’m giving it to Brad to read, but I’m pretty confident he’s going to feel as I do.”

“It gives me chills telling that story,” Hedges says. “I’ve been doing this for 39 years and that doesn’t happen.”

During the production of Ben Is Back, Hedges felt like he was working with a team rather than two different people—”really smart, good people who believe in you when you don’t even believe in yourself.” He recalls a conversation that the trio had after the release of Ben Is Back, during which they spoke about what they could have done better. “It wasn’t a conversation born out of some crisis, but one you have when you’re talking with people who are really interested in growing and learning,” Hedges says.

“They’re just good people, and we can’t have enough good people in our crazy business.”

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A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

ARE THE STRENGTHS EACH OF YOU CULTIVATED AS A STUDIO EXEC AND AN INDIE FILMMAKER STILL IN PLAY NOW? DO YOU OCCUPY THOSE ROLES TO SOME EXTENT WHEN WORKING ON A PROJECT?

SIMPSON: I think that when Nina started her producing career, she was thinking, “This is what I’ll do for two years before I go back and be a studio executive.”

JACOBSON: Two years tops, worstcase scenario.

SIMPSON: But I’ve watched her fall in love with producing. I’ve never been inside the system, and Nina grew up inside the system. I started in independent film in the ’90s in that crazy moment where you’d walk through the East Village and there was a low-budget movie shooting on every corner.

My assumption from working on indie movies is that something is always going to go wrong, that something is not going to show up, that you’re not going to have enough time, that somebody is going to fail at their job, and that you need to be braced for disaster.

Maybe because Nina came up through the studio system and is also a more optimistic person than I am, she approaches things with the idea that of course they’re going to go right. There’s an order to the world, there’s justice, and people are going to be great at their jobs.

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A HUNGER GAMES TIMELINE THE ODDS SEEM FOREVER IN NINA JACOBSON’S FAVOR. written by Whitney friedlander Jacobson became the woman on fire when Color Force, the company she founded in 2007, purchased the film rights to Suzanne Collins’ The Hunger Games book series in 2009. That series was adapted for the screen by Jacobson and Jon Kilik. The 2023 prequel film was produced by Jacobson, Simpson and Francis Lawrence.

The Hunger Games is a story of defiance—not just for its protagonists, but also for the team that adapted the books for the screen. At the time of the first film in the series (2012), young adult (YA) fiction was seen as a liability in terms of screen adaptation. Pushing forward seemed counterintuitive, especially when the landscape was rife with cautions like “A woman can’t anchor a franchise,” “Boys won’t see girls in this kind of a role,” “Girls will identify with boys, but boys won’t identify with girls in turn,” and “Young adult protagonists don’t work.”

Here’s a short timeline of how Jacobson’s work on Hunger Games helped change the arena of Hollywood.

Former Buena Vista Motion Pictures Group president Nina Jacobson founded Color Force in 2007. Two years later, the company paid $200,000 for the rights to Collins’ planned book trilogy, the first of which had been released and became a hit after authors Stephen King and Stephenie Meyer publicly praised it. Two weeks later, Lionsgate came on to handle worldwide distribution rights.

An allegory on, among other things, fame and exploitation, the Hunger Games story centered on Katniss Everdeen. A

COURTESY OF NINA JACOBS

Joining Forces

THEIR AIM IS TRUE:

Nina Jacobson with cast and crew on the set of Mockingjay – Part 2.

young archer from a poor district in the nuclear state known as Panem, Katniss volunteers to represent her district in an annual battle royale to spare her sister from that fate.

“The suspense of The Hunger Games is heightened by its spirit of moral inquiry, and Suzanne has entrusted Lionsgate and me to bring that moral perspective to the adaptation—a charge we fully intend to honor,” Jacobson said at the time.

The first film, released in 2012, would gross nearly $700 million worldwide.

Also in 2012, film producer and former Appian Way president Simpson joined Color Force as a partner. Simpson had worked with Jacobson on the Diary of a Wimpy Kid franchise that began in 2010.

But he also brought some indie cred, having worked on titles such as Kevin

A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

“I think she (Jacobson) is and has been one of the more vigilant producers that I’ve worked with over the years,” Lawrence tells Produced By. “She’s one of the producers that’s there from the inception and every step of the way of the development process.”

Nina Jacobson on the set of The Hunger Games.

A still from Mockingjay – Part 1.

Connolly’s Gardener of Eden and the flashy crime drama Party Monster.

“This really is a seminal moment for us at Color Force,” Jacobson told The Hollywood Reporter. “I want to stay focused on Hunger Games but also taking this opportunity to grow. Brad, who has great relationships with writers and directors and who is very capable on set, makes that possible.”

The second film in the franchise, The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, was released in 2013. It was the first film of the series to be directed by Francis Lawrence, who would go on to direct the final two movie adaptations of the book series as well as the 2023 prequel The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes. It was also the most profitable, with a worldwide box office of $865 million.

The final book in Collins’ trilogy, Mockingjay, was broken into two parts for the screen: one released in 2014 and earning $755 million worldwide; the other in 2015 and earning $661 million worldwide.

Jacobson was frank about the decision to split that book into two films, telling The New York Times in 2014 that “We felt we needed two movies to tell the story. But it would be disingenuous to say that there isn’t a benefit to getting four movies out of a trilogy instead of three.”

She also said in that interview that the most important thing to remember when producing an adaptation of a hot literary property is to “always remember what made you love the book. The movie can’t and doesn’t have to be just like the book, but it should feel like the book—it should make you feel the way the book made you feel.”

The year the last film came out, Jacobson wrote an essay in Variety that implored Hollywood to look for diverse stories.

“If you want the industry to be more diverse, you can’t sit on your laurels,” she wrote. “The people who come to you will likely be people of privilege who know somebody. You want to bring in fresh faces and let the cream rise to the top. The people who make movies should be as diverse as the people who watch them.”

Prequel film The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes was released in November 2023. Opening weekend global box office was $108 million.

In a tribute shared on the film’s official Instagram page, author Collins wrote that “producers Nina Jacobson and Brad Simpson have meticulously overseen every detail from soup to nuts, once again bringing a faithful adaptation of the book into a spectacular version of Panem.”

JACOBSON: I assume people are competent until proven otherwise.

Brad assumes people are incompetent until proven otherwise—and he’s often right. When we’re chasing a piece of material, I love the hunt. I love the heated bidding, the wooing, the wondering who’s going to get it. Brad finds that whole part gives him a stomachache. He can’t stand it. He just wants it to be over.

SIMPSON: Nina was such a trailblazer both as an out queer executive and as a woman in the industry. She was also known for her honesty and her relationship with the filmmakers. That’s a currency I get to ride on. I’ve never had to look at a P&L spreadsheet or walk into a staff meeting to defend how much money I’m spending on something that most people think is insane.

When we’re meeting with the decision-makers, they can’t look at us and say, “You have no idea what I’m going through,” because Nina does, and she can meet them as a peer. That’s been really helpful for us at critical moments.

DO YOU DIVVY UP RESPONSIBILITIES ON YOUR PRODUCTIONS BASED ON YOUR INDIVIDUAL BACKGROUNDS?

JACOBSON: We tag-team a lot. It comes down to who needs to be where when and for how long.

The year we were doing Crazy Rich Asians and The Assassination of Gianni Versace at the same time, I went to Malaysia and Singapore, and Brad was in Miami and LA. Both of us are very involved from the very beginning until the very end. We’ve stayed a boutique on purpose. I don’t think either one of

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A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

us really knows how to not try to make every page, moment and scene better. Ultimately, the only way you can do that is through immersion. I kind of envy the people who figure out how to do it minus the immersion, because they would probably not have to be away so often.

When there’s a competitive situation, people will bring us things because they know that we will actually produce it. We’ve also had a big jump on competitors because we actually read the book that somebody gave you. You would think that everybody who’s trying to compete for the (book’s rights) has read it.

They have not actually read the book!

Whether we have different strengths, so much of it is about being there with your creative partner on set when that person needs support and guidance. You stand in front of them only when things are bad, and behind or beside them the rest of the time.

Choices, Choices, Choices HAS THERE EVER BEEN ANY DISCUSSION BETWEEN YOU ABOUT STICKING TO ONE FORMAT, I.E., FILM OR TV, OR SERIES OR FEATURES?

JACOBSON: As a studio executive, you are either for the most part a television executive or a film executive. It’s rare that you would get to do both on the executive side of things. As a producer, I love having the creative freedom to read something, fall in love with it, and think, “What is the best format for this?” It gives you so many more opportunities to tell a story that you love and to learn a new form of storytelling.

SIMPSON: We were both film people who grew up in the snobby film world. Out of creative jealousy and survival instinct, when we partnered in 2012, we said, “We better get a TV deal. We need to learn how to produce TV.” We met with every place possible and FX offered us the smallest deal. But we said to John Landgraf and his team, “We’re only going to bring you things we believe in, and we want you to teach us TV.” When we moved into TV, we found that a lot of our skills were transferable.

SIMPSON: It was an exhilarating process to do movies and TV. With The People v. O.J. Simpson, it was the first thing we brought to FX, and we had the joy of saying, “We can take this rich tapestry, tell this 10-hour movie, and really stick with these characters.”

It’s been incredible not to be pigeonholed in either one.

SIMPSON: One of the things that has always appealed to me about working with Nina is her first instinct is honesty. Early on in our partnership, we had to cancel a meeting with an actor. Nina called the manager and said, “We just want you to know we’re canceling this meeting because the studio wants us to meet with another other actor instead.” A very powerful studio executive was also calling the actor’s manager at the same time and lied about what was happening. The manager said to that exec, “I know that’s not true. I talked to Nina. I know that you’re meeting with another actor.”

The executive got us both on the phone and said, “What have you done? You’ve humiliated me. I don’t understand! Why did you tell them that we were cancelling this meeting to meet with another actor?”

Nina said, “Because it’s the truth.”

And this executive said to us, “Who the fuck told you to tell the truth?”

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SARAH PAULSON

ON WANTING TO IMPRESS Actor Sarah Paulson came to work with Jacobson and Simpson for the first time on The People v. O.J. Simpson. She was very, very nervous.

“I was terrified of Nina because she is such a formidable presence, but also because she had been one of the few women who had been in such a position of power in our town for so long,” Paulson recalls. “I know that in order to achieve that status in that position, you have to have a particular kind of backbone and skin density and brain.”

When Paulson met Brad for the first time, her nerves doubled. “I was a little frightened of them both, not because they were power-wielding megalomaniacs, but because I had enormous respect for them, their point of view and their taste.”

Paulson came to treasure the dedication Jacobson and Simpson brought to the table, which was far beyond previous experiences with other producers. “I never had to worry about going up to them with a question about the script, the timeline or orienting myself in the story. Either one of them would be able to tell me exactly where I was at any given moment as it pertained to the story,” Paulson recalls.

Paulson describes the partners’ investment as emotional, spiritual and intellectual rather than financial. She recalls how attentive Jacobson and Simpson were to a positive experience for everyone, from the people running craft service to number one on the call sheet.

“It was important to them that they were creating a family-like atmosphere that allowed some of the work I’m the most of proud as an actor,” says Paulson. “It’s a very different set I walk onto when they’re not there. I feel much less seen and protected. Working with them feels like home to me.”

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A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

Creating Change ARE THERE ISSUES WITHIN THE PRODUCTION PIPELINE OR ABOUT THE INDUSTRY OVERALL THAT THAT KEEP YOU UP AT NIGHT THINKING, “I WOULD LIKE TO OPTIMIZE THIS PROCESS. I’D LIKE TO CORRECT THIS DYSFUNCTION. I WISH THAT THIS WAS BETTER AND THAT WE WERE ALL GETTING BEHIND IT”?

SIMPSON: I have two. The first is a lifestyle issue. We’ve been shooting Say Nothing in England, where recently they have moved to much shorter days.

I wish that for the sake of the crew, for the sake of everybody, that the number of hours (for U.S. productions) could be capped. The work-life balance for people on crew is prohibitive to parents who want to be involved with their kids. It’s prohibitive to just having a life. It wouldn’t totally solve them, but it would correct some of the class and racial imbalances across the crews to have that (hourly cap).

The second thing is that I came up in a system where there were tons of pods of pure producers. A lot of my peers got to be employed and have health insurance and learn to produce because Jersey Films or Killer Films or one of these companies had a patron at a studio and they could train these young producers. You could have a regular paycheck, you could learn, and you were given a baby movie to produce.

That pipeline has gone away. It is much tougher to be a young producer now. We’re not training young producers. People are acknowledging we need more women, people of color, or queer people in the system, and there’s not a way to train them in a way that gives them the financial underpinning to exist.

JJACOBSON: I agree. It’s the job collectively of the creative team as well as the studio to make creative or budget choices that are not solved by the exploitation of people’s bodies and time.

The concern and familial protectiveness that we ought to feel toward each other is lacking. There’s a lot of room to do better.

Then there’s the question of apprenticeship and young people being given opportunities to learn a skill, a trade, a craft, and then get a chance to try it, to realize it is or isn’t for them. Now, people stay in their jobs forever. So many of the people who were studio executives when I was a studio executive, which is a long time ago now—I left Disney in 2006 and started producing in 2007—are the same people who were there when I was there. Because there’s more insecurity, people stay in their jobs longer, and because people stay in their jobs longer, there’s less room.

Another issue is the erosion of the producing role—who is the producer on the show. There might be many people with producer in their names and many of them are doing critical roles.

But generally speaking, the producer is usually the only person who is asked to cut their fee.

SIMPSON: When they come to you and ask you to cut your fee, that’s the sign that you’re the lead producer. “You really want to green-light this? Unfortunately, you have to pay a price for that.”

JACOBSON: It’s the devaluing of the producing credit and the role. You would never go back to a writer and say, “You have to give me back some of the money I said I was going to pay you.” But people come to the producer all the time saying, “If you really want to get this made, how about if you cut your fee in half?”

Simpson (right) behind the scenes on Diary of a Wimpy Kid: The Long Haul.

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With the cast of Crazy Rich Asians at the 2018 Color Force Emmy brunch: Henry Golding, Nina Jacobson, Nico Santos, Jimmy O. Yang, Brad Simpson.

HAVING IDENTIFIED THE NEED FOR MENTORSHIP AND CREATING PATHS FOR FORTHCOMING GENERATIONS, WHAT EFFORTS ARE YOU MAKING TO HELP ADDRESS THE ISSUES YOU’VE MENTIONED?

JACOBSON: Well, on Pose, we were adamant that we couldn’t have trans representation only on screen. We need to have trans and queer representation throughout the ranks. It’s being mindful of the fact that it’s not about ticking boxes. I worked on the ReFrame stamp to encourage being mindful about looking around the table and asking, “How are we doing and what are we doing about it?”

SIMPSON: I give credit to Ryan Murphy for really making a sea change in terms of the directing ranks on our TV shows with his HALF Initiative. He came to us and said, “I want to make an initiative where half of the director slots are going to BIPOC

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people,” and we followed along with that.

One of the things I’m really fearful about right now is that the big (diversity) push that began a couple years ago was just cosmetic, and as the reality of financial constraints come in, it’s become less of a priority for financiers.

We’ve been trying to make sure that it’s not less of a priority for us.

The other push for us has been with below-the-line crew. It’s as simple as saying, “Why are we not meeting with people of color for these roles?” and push beyond the initial stack of résumés. It’s been a big focus for us.

On Pose, we wanted Black and Latinx hair and makeup department heads who understand how to do hair and makeup for brown and black skin. You have to search for these artists wherever they’ve been working. You call people of color and ask them for recommendations. You call queer people to ask them to recommend other queer people.

I think the executive ranks is where you see the biggest deficit. You still are

mainly pitching to the same people, people who look like me—balding white men with glasses.

JACOBSON: I also think there’s still an attitude of, “You’re lucky to get your foot in the door.” No, we’re lucky to bring new voices into our field!

And we don’t recruit. Any other competitive business is out there recruiting and making the opportunities. It’s asking a lot of somebody who’s gone through college with student loans to go into a completely uncertain field that has very few proper training opportunities; knowing that if they get work as a PA, four months from now they’re going to be out of work again.

We ought to be recruiting.

A lot of that has to come from people who have the resources to do it. I hope to see the studios, the networks and the streamers going out and recruiting the way any other competitive field does— instead of acting like “You’re so lucky to have this low-paying job.”

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B EST PIC T U R E DAV I D H E YMA N, p.g.a.

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A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

ON MAKING HER TV DEBUT Sarah Burgess’ writing drove Jacobson and Simpson’s American Crime Story serial Impeachment. It was Burgess’ first big TV experience. She was terrified to be on set, but credits Jacobson and Simpson for creating an apprenticeship that helped Burgess make the leap from acclaimed playwright to head writer, showrunner, and executive producer over the course of shooting 10 episodes.

“I saw all the work that goes into their movies and shows, and how much each project meant to them,” Burgess recalls. “As a writer, there’s nothing more important than a producer caring that much and being emotionally invested.

It liberates you to go as far as you need to go.”

Burgess values the distinct qualities that Jacobson and Simpson each brought to their collaboration with her, describing Simpson as zeroing in on intensive details whereas Jacobson lent a big-picture mode of thinking,

particularly when it came to the emotional responses that a script may or may not be bringing to bear—which can be tough input for a writer to receive.

“It was always one of the most effective things about their partnership, the way they give a writer notes,” Burgess says. “I’ve had enough experience to see how valuable and rare that is. I got into that great place where I could push back and have an argument, and then we’d all move on in a healthy, working way.”

Impeachment began filming in October 2020, when the COVID pandemic was in full swing, a tumultuous U.S. presidential election race was coming to a head, and society was in upheaval over racial injustice.

“Brad and Nina’s connection was so valuable when there was such tension in the world. I was so happy to be with people who were there to help get the work done.

After working for three years during a catastrophic global pandemic on a story about a messy national scandal, it says a lot when you can say that you’re happy to hear from those people years later.”

Left to right: Chairman of FX John Landgraf, President of 20th Television Karey Burke, Eric Kovtun, Sarah Paulson, Nina Jacobson, Brad Simpson, Sarah Burgess, Monica Lewinsky, Beanie Feldstein, Alexis Martin Woodall and Michael Uppendahl attend the premiere of FX's Impeachment: American Crime Story in 2021.

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COURTESY OF KEVIN WINTER/GETTY IMAGES

SARAH BURGESS

A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

"I hope we've made some good stuff and that we've given opportunities to people who wouldn't have had the opportunity."

<>

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A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

What It All Boils Down To HOW DO YOU HOPE THAT THE EFFORTS YOU’RE MAKING VIS-À-VIS THE PROJECTS YOU’VE SELECTED HAVE HELPED THE INDUSTRY GROW? IS THERE A PERSONAL MISSION YOU’RE ON THAT’LL LEAD YOU TO BE ABLE TO LOOK BACK AND SAY, “WE’RE SO PROUD THAT WE CHANGED THE INDUSTRY IN THIS WAY”?

THE FX CHIEF AND THE LITTLE DUO THAT COULD `

SIMPSON: You hope that you make an impact. I do believe that TV and movies are big empathy machines, and they do give you the best opportunity to walk in somebody else’s shoes. To know what it’s like to exist and be somebody else and to create empathy for people who are different than you. It also is an opportunity for you to see yourself sometimes.

When I look back, I hope we’ve made some good stuff and that we’ve given opportunities to people who wouldn’t have had the opportunity. We love to feel that throughout the crew. There’s nothing greater than seeing somebody who was your PA and now they’re an AD; or a baby writer becoming a writer you can’t even work with anymore because they’re so expensive. I would love to say that we also made some differences in the structural imbalances and that we’ve made a stab for representation.

JACOBSON: I hope that because of our work, more people will see an ad or drive by a sign and say, “I see myself in that person.” That spark of recognition of seeing someone like you on screen in an aspirational way. The longer I do it, the more profound the power of it appears to me, of what it means to people—that moment of recognition.

I always think about the little girl who’s driving to school with her mom and sees a Katniss Everdeen or a Lucy Gray Baird, or what it’s like to see this incredibly glamorous, beautiful cast of Pose, or Crazy Rich Asians.

John Chu told me there had not been a Hollywood romantic on-screen kiss between an Asian man and an Asian woman that anybody could think of.

So if more people feel seen or inspired to think, “If that story works, maybe my story would work,” and if more people feel seen, I feel like that would be a good accomplishment.

A 2012 first-look deal with FX brought about Jacobson and Simpson’s first TV project, The People v. O.J. Simpson— the first installment of the American Crime Story anthology. The limited series garnered 22 Emmy nominations, winning nine.

“It was clear to me that from the very beginning that it was going to be a really fruitful partnership,” says FX Chairman John Landgraf. “And it has been. I don’t think we’ve ever had a fallow period in our relationship.”

Following that triumph, Color Force inked an overall TV production deal with FX Productions in 2016, leading to two more critically acclaimed, multiple-award-winning series for the anthology, The Assassination of Gianni Versace and Impeachment.

At the heart of these triumphs is what Landgraf describes as a beautiful partnership between Jacobson, Simpson, and fellow series producers Ryan Murphy and Brad Falchuk. “Their alchemy and the way they construct these stories is done with such care, such clarity and such dimensionality.”

Color Force has more projects in the FX hopper, including a limited series based on the Patrick Radden Keefe book Say Nothing chronicling the vicious history of the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

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A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

a project is facing.

“I’ve never had a conversation with Brad and Nina about anything where they didn’t challenge my own perceptions and expectations or bring a question that was really, really useful to refining what we were trying to work on.”

When Color Force brought The People v. O.J. Simpson to FX, many were wary how the project could move beyond character tropes and well-worn cliches about a moment in history that had already oversaturated the media landscape. Landgraf was impressed by how Jacobson and Simpson challenged those perceptions via the research and questions they presented to him and his FX team.

“I was seeing these characters in a different way than I ever had,” he says.

For all the glory that Color Force has helped bring to FX, Landgraf has also found value in projects that did

not attain the same heights. “With Y: The Last Man, though I’m very proud of the show that resulted, it wasn’t successful,” he says. “Part of being a good producer is aiming really high, being willing to take risks, not playing it safe. Nina and Brad are challenging in what they bring and what they love.”

With the sharp increase in the volume of TV content, Landgraf has observed that many programs have been brought to the screen before they were ready—when getting it made trumped making it well.

“One of the things I admire about Nina and Brad is they work really, really hard on the material. It’s very rare for a great television show to be made that doesn’t start with a great script,” Landgraf says. “We could use more producers who are rigorous and ambitious about working on and getting the scripts right in the way Brad and Nina are.”

Brad Simpson, Ryan Murphy, John Travolta, Cuba Gooding Jr., Nina Jacobson and Sterling K. Brown at Vanity Fair and FX's 2016 Primetime Emmy nominations party.

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PHOTO BY MICHAEL KOVAC/GETTY IMAGES FOR VANITY FAIR

What makes Landgraf most proud about the partnership between Color Force and FX? It’s simple: well-made storytelling. But that simplicity belies the laborious process behind wellmade stories in television or film.

“It starts with ideas and themes and research, then good, solid dramaturgy and good editorial skills, working with writers and developing written material. The meticulous process of casting, and building a production all the way through to postproduction,” Landgraf says. “Nina and Brad are perfectionists. They’re very good at it and they’re wonderful to work with, because they’re so ambitious, self-critical, curious, modest and all the things you’d want in a partner.”

Landgraf also sees in them an underrated quality among collaborators: asking hard questions that cut to the core of challenges that

PHOTO BY ROY ROCHLIN/GETTY IMAGES

A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

At the season 2 premiere of Pose in 2019: Jason A. Rodriguez, Indya Moore, Eric Schrier, Janet Mock, Brad Simpson, Dyllón Burnside, Alexis Martin Woodall, Steven Canals, Dominique Jackson, Michaela Jaé Rodriguez, Ryan Jamaal Swain, Angelica Ross, Our Lady J, Sherry Marsh and Billy Porter.

Front: Hailie Sahar, Angel Bismark Curiel and guest.

MICHAELA JAÉ RODRIGUEZ ON LEADING THE WAY

During the first days of filming Pose in 2017, Michaela Jaé Rodriguez was riding in an elevator with Brad Simpson and Nina Jacobson, whom she had just met.

Pose was the first series to star five transgender women of color, including Rodriguez in her first lead role. Simpson asked her, “Are you ready for this?”

“I said, ‘I think so,’” Rodriguez recalls. Simpson replied, “Well, here we go. Your life is about to begin.”

In 2021, Rodriguez became the first transgender performer to receive an Emmy nomination in a major acting category. And in 2022, she became the first transgender actor to win a Golden Globe. Rodriguez credits Jacobson and Simpson with helping her dig deep to embody the character of Blanca Evangelista, an adoptive mother caring for young LGBTQ+ people who have been rejected by their families and communities and left to subsist on the streets. Pose was a beacon of hope then and now, its success fueled by heartfelt dedication.

Rodriguez was unfamiliar with the weighty responsibility of carrying a show. “Brad and Nina

were very hands-on with teaching me and giving me pointers, always instilling words of confidence and encouragement,” Rodriguez says. “I’ve developed a great relationship with the producers on the show that I’m on now. It all stems from Brad and Nina instilling in me the information that they did.”

The show was a learning curve for every community involved, whether trans, queer, people of color, cisgender or heterosexual. It entailed learning a new style of communication that respected the breadth of backgrounds and identities, especially that of trans people.

“It was a learning process for all of us,” Rodriguez says. “Trans women and queer people are not exempt from fault or mistakes. I think they (Jacobson and Simpson) helped hold space for that.”

By lobbying for trans women to be seen in roles that had never been accessible to them, the legacy laid down by the creators of Pose continues today.

Rodriguez is currently costarring alongside Maya Rudolph in the Apple TV+ comedy Loot. “I don’t play a trans woman. I am just a woman. You can make the assumption that I’m trans or not. That alone shows progress,” she says.

“Brad and Nina set it up for us to move forward. Now we can have full, fleshed-out conversations instead of being pigeonholed or caricatured.” ¢

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MEMBER SPOTLIGHT

NEW MEMBERS Produced By trains the spotlight on some of the Guild’s newest members, and offers a glimpse at what makes them tick.

Garrett Beltis After serving as the coproducer for sports recap show This Week in WWE (2018), Garrett Beltis shifted to working with animation and is currently a senior producer at Nickelodeon Digital Studios.

Producer credits include Pineapple Playhouse (2020) and SpongeBob As Told By (2020).

What’s on your producing bucket list?

Kati Fernandez

Someday I’d like to produce my own original series that features irreverent humor, unusually captivating puppetry and proud LGBTQ+ themes. Jim Henson wanted to end every episode of The Muppet Show with an explosion! That’s the kind of energy I aspire to channel as a creative producer at Nickelodeon Digital Studios.

What is the biggest misconception people have about the producer’s role?

In XR development, that it’s like being a daring explorer in a wild, digital frontier, where every step is fraught with uncertainty and the compass only points to “innovate!”

While there’s definitely room for adventure and risk-taking magic, the reality is more like being a savvy guide in a techno-jungle. The type of guide who has a compass, established tools, platforms and best practices in hand.

Dana Ware Currently the chief creative officer at ARound AR, Dana Ware is a project manager working in virtual reality and augmented reality. Her projects include Dave & Buster’s Transformers: Decepticon Invasion with Dark Slope (2022), The VOID’s Jumanji: Reverse the Curse with Sony Pictures (2019), and Perspectives VR, sponsored by Google and SkyWest, at The Leonardo in Salt Lake City, Utah (2018).

Kati Fernandez is the senior director of development at ESPN, working on original content across numerous channels. Associate producer credits include Black History Always: A Love Letter to Black Women (2021), I Run With Maud (2021) and Rhoden’s Road Trip (2021).

At what point in your life did you discover what a producer brings to the table?

I had a realization about the invaluable role of a producer while observing my mentor, Brian Lockhart, when he was leading a storytelling unit. Seeing the producer’s ability to shape powerful storytelling and offer unique perspectives that could enlighten and engage audiences was a transformative moment for me. It underscored the profound impact and power they had in bringing a story to life and connecting with viewers on a deeper level.

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MEMBER SPOTLIGHT

Who or what inspired you to go into producing?

Being a background actor on different sets while in college studying psychology made me realize I definitely wanted to work in the entertainment industry. It wasn’t until I started to PA on unscripted shows that I realized I wanted to be a producer for unscripted TV. The fast-paced shooting, thinking on your feet and problem-solving were what hooked me. I wanted to be the creator of a great show no matter the obstacles.

Michael Indjeian

Brian Gonzalez Brian Gonzalez works in unscripted television and focuses on field and story producing.

Credits include supervising producer on HGTV’s Lil Jon Wants to Do What? (2023), producer on Discovery+’s Saving The Manor (2022) and associate producer on HGTV’s Ty Breaker (2020).

At what point in your life did you discover what a producer brings to the table?

I discovered early on in my producing career that the producer is the heart of any project. We are the first to get involved and the ones who spot a project’s creative opportunity and commercial viability.

We must also wear many hats, from concept development to wrangling cats to seeking distribution channels. Also, there is no safety net for a producer, especially during those sink-or-swim moments. If a challenge presents itself, a production cannot go sideways because of an unexpected occurrence. The producer must always bring a sense of calmness and have an immediate solution.

Sometimes it takes learning the hard way to understand what a producer brings to the table, especially when it’s you in the hot seat.

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Michael Indjeian is an Emmy-winning producer of nonfiction series and indie features. Recent credits include travel show Samantha Brown’s Places to Love (2018–23), thriller Follow Her (2022), and, as line producer, dramedy The Good Half (2023).

Jonathan Halperyn After years of working for studios, Jonathan Halperyn discovered a calling for producing and founded Hero Squared Productions, a company focused on feature, television, and commercial production and content development in Hungary and the CEE region.

Recent credits include Infinity Pool (2023) as producer, and Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris (2022), Knights of the Zodiac (2023) and The Pigeon Tunnel (2023) as coproducer.

Who or what inspired you to go into producing?

My mother took me to movies constantly in my childhood. Going to the movie theater was like going to church for me (and it still is). It was my safe space when nowhere else was. I was transported far, far away from any of my troubles, and there in the dark I felt free to feel and experience and learn and adventure.

Thanks, Mom!

Who or what inspired you to go into producing?

As a young cinephile, I found myself captivated by the magic of cinema and the power of storytelling. But it was not until I stumbled upon the careers of two remarkable producers, Debra Martin Chase and Kathleen Kennedy, that my passion for filmmaking truly ignited. Debra Martin Chase, with her diverse portfolio of films that championed strong female leads and underrepresented voices, inspired me with her commitment to creating impactful narratives that resonated with audiences from all walks of life. Equally fascinating was Kathleen Kennedy’s illustrious career, spanning decades of producing some of the most iconic films in cinematic history. As I continued to delve into their journeys, I realized that being a producer was not just about overseeing the financial aspects of a film, but a multifaceted role that required creativity, business acumen, and a deep understanding of the art of storytelling. Witnessing Debra’s and Kathleen’s dedication to championing diverse stories and pushing the boundaries of the film industry, I knew that I wanted to follow in their footsteps.

MEMBER SPOTLIGHT

Wendy Eley Jackson After a start at Sony Pictures Television, Wendy Eley Jackson produced numerous scripted and unscripted film and television projects. Currently, Wendy is CEO for Auburn Avenue Films based in Atlanta, Georgia. Recent credits include documentaries Maynard (2017), Welcome to Pine Lake (2020), and Carterland (2021).

What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received about producing?

Mark Duplass’s SXSW keynote speech: “The cavalry isn’t coming; you are the cavalry!” This was in reference to saying that no one is going to just hand you the keys to make a film; you need to make it happen. That advice motivated me to give producing my first feature a shot immediately after graduating from the American Film Institute, and I have never looked back.

Leal Naim Leal Naim’s passion for film grew out of discovering a parent’s vast VHS and DVD library as a teenager. Producer credits include Hulu’s Clock (2023), Shudder’s Blood Relatives (2022) and The Endless (2018).

What’s on your producing bucket list?

At the top of my list is producing a richly nuanced, epic drama TV series that portrays the authentic and raw stories of immigrants from the Middle East. I believe that these voices need to be heard, and their narratives have a lot of untapped potential that can deeply resonate with audiences.

The impact and storytelling prowess of shows like Breaking Bad and The Sopranos have had a profound influence on me. It’s my ambition to create content that falls within a similar realm—content that engages, intrigues and moves audiences in the way those iconic series have. While my bucket list might be ambitious, it’s one that keeps me driven and inspired every day.

Atkin Korkis Atkin Korkis is a line producer and production manager working in features across genres. Recent line producer credits include Lifetime’s Deadly Misconduct (2021), the romance Something’s Brewing (2023) and Christmas horror-thriller A Creature Was Stirring (2023).

December | January 2024

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“IT’S MORE THAN A GREAT ANIMATED FILM. IT’S A BEST PICTURE CONTENDER.”

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ONE ON ONE

Open Line A close working relationship between post and line producers benefits the quality of the product—and its bottom line.

So say AMANDA KAY PRICE AND DANIELLE BLUMSTEIN—two producers who have proven the value of open communication during every phase of production.

With contributions by Whitney Friedlander

T

here’s a paradox about working in a medium rooted in communication. When someone is busy multitasking and thinking two steps ahead, they can become very bad at communicating. And a disconnect between production and postproduction can cost a film or TV series time, money, or worse, a missed air date.

Acknowledging this, Produced By sat down with postproduction producer Amanda Kay Price (Prime Video’s Daisy Jones and the Six; Hulu’s Little Fires Everywhere) and unit production manager and line producer Danielle Blumstein (Prime Video’s Harlem; Netflix’s Vampires vs. the Bronx). The two developed a symbiotic relationship while working on the Netflix horror series Archive 81, creator Rebecca Sonnenshine’s adaptation of the supernatural podcast of the same name about an archivist tasked with reassembling “found footage” of a grad student’s documentary project about an apartment building that burned down.

Blumstein and Price’s kinship is especially interesting because the series was filmed during the COVID lockdown—they never met in person during the production. So that production, naturally, came with some life curveballs. But according to Price, it also taught them “how good it can be” to have the departments in sync.

“I always say that the first three people hired on a show as soon as scripts have been completed should be the showrunner or head writer, the line producer and the post producer,” Price says. “Because the line producer’s job is to get the show started and filmed and the post producer’s job is to get it to air. Without discussion together, we don’t accomplish either of those things.”

In their conversation, which has been edited and condensed for clarity, Price and Blumstein talk about what makes a successful collaboration between the two worlds and whether, or how, industry-wide concerns like block shooting, budgets and AI affect their jobs.

74 producersguild.org | PRODUCED BY

A still from Archive 81, the Netflix series on which Price (post producer) and Blumstein (UPM) collaborated.

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ONE ON ONE: OPEN LINE

CLARIFYING ROLES

BLUMSTEIN: The line producer and

the UPM are not just two sides of the same coin, but also the right hand and the left hand. They don’t work without each other. They’re so closely intertwined. The line producer is concerned with the broad scope of the project, and fulfilling the creative requests of the creator, showrunner, writer, and director, within the financial needs of the studio. The production manager works in tandem with the line producer. “Here’s the budget.

Go and talk to costumes, talk to the prop department, figure out what the technical department heads need.” A lot of the day-to-day, on-the-ground issues.

Those two perspectives need each other. Your production manager needs to know what’s happening: big picture, budget, what’s coming down in the next episode and the next schedule— conversations that they might not be involved in. And the line producer needs the production manager to know how it’s going on set and how the departments are running with their budgets.

PRICE: As a post producer, I’ll tell you

what I don’t get seen as. I don’t get seen as a department head, even though that’s exactly what I am. I’m the circus wrangler. My job is the one role, besides the showrunner, that is involved with every single department. There’s not a department that I don’t talk to at any given moment on any given thing.

WHEN POST COMES IN

PRICE: It used to be when the director

says cut, then it becomes a post thing.

That is not how it is any longer. It hurts post and hurts the show when post is brought on too late. By that I mean traditionally the post producer would start two weeks before principal photography. The post producer needs to start as soon as the line producer starts, or a couple weeks after—so like six, eight, 10 weeks in—because these

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“I’M THE CIRCUS WRANGLER. MY JOB IS THE ONE ROLE, BESIDES THE SHOWRUNNER, THAT IS INVOLVED WITH EVERY SINGLE DEPARTMENT.” —AMANDA KAY PRICE shows are so massive now. If I don’t know where the bodies are buried, I can’t do my job and the show will suffer.

No one thinks about post until it’s too late. The way to combat that is to bring the post producer on earlier. Two weeks before production, before we start rolling

cameras, is when the production meeting happens. At the production meeting, things have already been decided.

The production meeting is not the first time we’ve all gotten together; it’s the last time we get together before cameras roll. To bring on the post producer that late is not helpful to the prep process.

On Archive 81, I was brought on 10 weeks before filming. I was part of the process of looking at directors and looking at directors of photography. This is as it should be.

This is all a creative decision, and we should work together as a team.

Archive 81 was a scary show on Netflix. It was a very post-heavy show, and not just in terms of VFX. What was so great about Danielle and what worked so well were conversations like, “Mandi, we have 12 song versions to choose from,” or “We have this video playback.” I was very much involved in this process from the beginning. As soon as they were finding out information, I was finding out information. We had an open channel communication from day one.

The ideal scenario for the production pipeline is that we start at the same time so that we’re getting the information at the same time.

BLUMSTEIN: Involving Mandi in the

prep process was incredibly helpful— including her in what meetings are happening, what scouts are happening, and what read-throughs are happening— so she can decide when and where it is important for her to be involved.

PRICE: I don’t like meetings. But I find

it incredibly beneficial that I’m sitting in them because I know what happens when I’m not there. When I’m not there, things tend to be very expensive. All of our jobs are as problem solvers, but when it comes to me too late, there’s no one else to solve the problem, because production has wrapped. Things just get put on my plate.

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ONE ON ONE: OPEN LINE Behind the scenes on Archive 81.

I keep seeing over and over again on various shows: “If I had just been there, this million-dollar problem would have been solved in a second.” I cannot express to you how much money is saved simply by me sitting in video village, because I’m looking at something completely different than what everyone else sitting at video village is looking for.

Hello Sunshine, which produced Daisy Jones and Little Fires Everywhere, has truly embraced this mentality. The post producer understands the continuity.

My role understands where this piece of the puzzle fits into the puzzle we have.

Especially nowadays—everyone’s block shooting, and block shooting only helps production. It is detrimental to post.

Say you do a two-episode block and shoot two episodes at one time. You automatically have to add 15 days to the post schedule because post is not getting the final scenes of the episode until the last day of the block. Whereas when we get the whole episode in seven days,

now we’re not getting it till day 13 or 14.

So now we’ve got two episodes at any given time that are not fully done. But we have to keep the editing team on the whole time, and they also can’t be doing a different episode. So that means we have to hire a third person to come in and do the next block.

BLUMSTEIN: Other than the time

that’s added on to your team because you don’t have a complete episode, are there any issues and challenges to block shooting, internally in the episodes, that you find come up on the post side?

PRICE: Continuity. I’m not an actor. But I can’t imagine being in four different time periods. That’s hard for the actor, and that comes across on screen. It comes across in their performance. It’s truly the excellent ones where it really is seamless.

There are also a lot more production fixes than there ever have been

because everyone’s in a rush and you only have a certain amount of time for costume changes.

BLUMSTEIN: Sometimes, just by

virtue of the location or the actor’s availability, you do the best you can to make your components work as successfully as possible.

PRICE: That’s the perfect example of

why post producer and line producer need to be in communication. Some of those things the post department can help out with. Like, “Don’t worry about snow. I can VFX some snow.” That’s a day saved just in snow continuity.

To this point: Oftentimes, the art director or the production designer and post work closely together. It’s the same tandem that it is with the line producer.

There are things, especially with technology these days, that I have access to—whether it’s in the color bay or whether it’s VFX—that are just cheaper.

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ONE ON ONE: OPEN LINE

It saves production so much time if post just handles it.

The show I’m on now is a period piece that takes place in the 1800s. Our actor has pierced ears, and at that time African American slaves did not have their ears pierced. So the solution was to add ear makeup prosthetics. That requires more time in hair and makeup for this actor. Plus, because weather and the elements affected the prosthetic, the post budget has to accumulate funds that were not planned for because the prosthetics were not consistent. A problem that was the size of an ear piercing is now hundreds of thousands of dollars more because now there are continuity issues.

BLUMSTEIN: In our business, there’s

a lot of learning by experience and by doing and seeing what works.

ADDRESSING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE

PRICE: When we think of AI, we

think of who it is going to replace. I don’t think AI could ever replace a post producer because there’s such a human element to the job. Things change in an instant due to creative decisions. I

would love AI to take over my budget, but there’s too much problem-solving that I have to do on a daily basis for AI to take over.

But I anticipate that AI is probably going to take over elements of my job.

One of them is part of the prep. When I read a script, I’m doing something very different than what Danielle is doing when she’s reading a script.

I’m thinking, “Where are the musical elements? Where are the VFX scenes?”

I can see how a computer could easily do a lot of that job.

BLUMSTEIN: I’m waiting for the AI

program that can help break down a script into schedules and characters.

I’m obviously not looking forward to AI taking over any positions.

Film and television is such a wonderful collaborative effort.

It’s the spark of creativity that happens in those moments when you have people come together.

BLUMSTEIN: Do you think

there’s a situation where technology either advances so quickly or what you’re able to do changes so quickly that production teams don’t know what you’re able to do?

A MORE INCLUSIVE INDUSTRY

PRICE: Sometimes people think

that everything in post is expensive.

They’re not wrong; there’s always a money cost to it. But something like that is so minuscule that it took more time and energy to do it on the production end than if someone had just asked the question, “Mandi, do you think post can take care of this?”

PRICE: There are about 10 Black post producers in all of Hollywood. I know that, because during the pandemic, we all met. Of those 10, six are women.

We actually outnumber the male post producers. I’m 35, have been doing this job for seven years, and have only worked with older white men. Danielle was the first female UPM I’ve ever had in any of my shows as a post producer.

Little Fires Everywhere’s Merri Howard was the first female line producer I’d ever worked with.

“IN OUR BUSINESS, THERE’S BLUMSTEIN: I remember on Archive 81 going through the stages with that A LOT OF great VFX team we had and figuring out how we shoot something that’s going to be manipulated. That teamwork helped LEARNING BY solve whatever challenge was coming or that we needed to work through.

BLUMSTEIN: For a long time, it was EXPERIENCE not as diverse an industry. From my PRICE: I learned more about what a experience, I feel like it has made a lot AND BY DOING UPM and line producer does and how of strides. I think it continues to try we can be connected from Danielle. and make more progress in terms of AND SEEING So now that’s what I look for in every being inclusive and having diversity show. And when I don’t have that, I get and mentorship programs.

WHAT WORKS.” initiatives frustrated, because I know what it’s like I’ve seen a lot of really positive changes to have it.

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—DANIELLE BLUMSTEIN

that I hope will continue. ¢

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WHAT A

Legacy LOOKS LIKE The PGA fellowship that honors the late producer Debra Hill inspires recipients to fashion careers in her spirit of giving back, of nurturing young talent, and her relentless commitment to diversity, sustainability and creativity.

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WHAT A LEGACY LOOKS LIKE

Follow the path laid down

by Debra Hill and this is whom you’ll find along the way: Powerhouses who smashed box office records.

Trailblazers who toppled stereotypes. Mentors who extended a hand to new generations of filmmakers, just the way they received help at their start.

It’s a legacy that stretches from scrappy indies to massive tentpoles, from fearless studio heads to film school grads just about to hit their professional stride, and from a passion for making the best possible films to a determination to treat everyone involved in the best way possible. It’s the legacy of Debra Hill.

“Debra paved the way for people like me to see that there was a place for me in the industry as a producer,” says Pamela Abdy. “She was my mentor’s mentor, so I feel that I got the benefit of learning about script and story from her.”

Now cochair and CEO of Warner Bros. Motion Picture Group, Abdy began her career as an intern at Jersey Films under Stacey Sher. “She taught me about the nuts and bolts of producing, which I know was passed down,” Abdy says.

When Sher began working with Hill in 1985, it was a trial run as director of development. “Debra taught me the philosophy of ‘no is not an option,’” says Sher, who went on to produce critical and box office successes for the likes of Quen-

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tin Tarantino and Steven Soderbergh.

The company that gave Sher her trial run was Hill/Obst, a partnership formed by Hill and Lynda Obst at Paramount. Obst had developed Flashdance, Clue and Contact for Peter Guber and was mentored by David Geffen while working on Risky Business and After Hours.

The film that had put Hill on the map was the first feature she produced: 1978’s Halloween, which she also cowrote. It also marked the first feature film role for Oscar-winning actor Jamie Lee Curtis. During production, the two women became what Curtis describes as “absolute ride-or-die best friends.”

Curtis was 19. Hill was 30. Despite the age gap, Curtis says, “We were just incredibly close.”

Curtis describes Hill/Obst as a powerhouse. “They really were the first in a world of men who just didn’t want ’em around. These two women said, ‘Yeah, well, pfft, watch this,’ and they did it. It’s just a beautiful legacy.”

Stephanie Austin had been producing long-form television when Hill asked

her to come on board as a supervising producer on Heartbreak Hotel in 1988. “That experience gave me the confidence a couple years later so that when Jim Cameron called, I could say yes to taking a big step into producing Terminator 2: Judgment Day and True Lies,” Austin says.

Recently, Curtis helped usher into the fold Zofia Sablinska, another producer whose career has been boosted by Hill.

Sablinska joins a group of more than a dozen others who never met Hill yet who have benefited enormously from her legacy of generosity, courage, integrity and creativity.

Curtis and Obst were among those who came together in October to honor Sablinska as the 14th recipient of the PGA’s Debra Hill Fellowship. Established in 2005 after Hill’s death, the grant provides a financial boost to filmmakers who have recently completed an accredited graduate degree in producing, helping them achieve their career goals while channeling their passion for film and TV into addressing important issues.

“Debra was passionate about everything she did,” Jamie Lee Curtis recalled during the reception. At the top of Hill’s list was advocating for producers’ creative rights, female representation in entertainment, protecting the environment and promoting sustainability, and, Curtis added, “a commitment to teaching and mentoring generations of producers like our young Zofia.”

Investing in the Future “There are many opportunities for writers and directors to be mentored and less so for up-and-coming producers,” says Abdy. “The PGA fellowship is an incredible opportunity for young producers to break into the business, have their ideas heard and be mentored by other working producers.”

The 2023 selection committee included longtime chair Austin, Abdy, Obst and Sher, along with Barry Bernardi, Candace Block, Candace

WHAT A LEGACY LOOKS LIKE

COURTESY OF ALAMY/EMBASSY - BMG

“THEY REALLY WERE THE FIRST IN A WORLD OF MEN WHO JUST DIDN’T WANT ’EM AROUND. THESE TWO WOMEN SAID, ‘YEAH, WELL, PFFT, WATCH THIS,’ AND THEY DID IT.”

Debra Hill and Jamie Lee Curtis on the set of The Fog (1980).

Bowen, Jeffrey Chernov, Bruce Cohen, Hollace Davids, Shelly Hochron, Marion Rosenberg, Cathleen Summers and Scott Thaler. Prior fellowship recipients Deniese Davis, Monique Keller and Lucienne Papon also served on the committee.

Before his death last September, Paul Reubens was instrumental in his involvement with the Debra Hill Fellowship as an active and committed leader and member of the selection committee. He was also involved in the fundraising needed to continue the fellowship.

Inspired Careers “Zofia is a remarkable young filmmaker, and the material she chose to produce shows a surprising maturity,” says Austin. Sablinska submitted films exploring conflicts between the values of a recently immigrated father and son, an experimental film about the

nature of the modern workplace with no dialogue, and a black-and-white progressive adaptation of work by Truman Capote.

“We do personal interviews at the end of the judging process, and that was the deciding factor in Zofia’s case,” adds Austin.

“She has the personality, drive, ambition and communication skills to carry on the Debra Hill producing tradition.”

Sablinska received her MFA in producing from the American Film Institute (AFI) in August 2023. She bolstered her experience under Ewa Puszczynska, producer of the Oscar-winning film Ida, and Sean Bobbitt (The Peasant), along with internships at Match Factory Productions, FirstGen Content, HanWay Films and Paper Plane Productions.

But years before a self-described “crazy journey” took her from her home in Poland to the heart of Hollywood, Sablinska began her career in film with a needle and thread.

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WHAT A LEGACY LOOKS LIKE

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Cristiano says.

He adds, “It really hit me how much she meant to the filmmaking and especially the producing community when I sat down for my fellowship interview with two of her dear colleagues.”

Fellowship applicants are asked to describe how Debra Hill and her legacy

COURTESY OF LYNDA OBST

of great storytelling and the confidence with which she stood behind her teams and projects.

“I would like to think that one of the reasons why I was selected for the fellowship when I was finishing grad school was that I was already beginning to follow those same principles,”

Above: Debra Hill and Lynda Obst.

Right: Jamie Lee Curtis and 2023 Debra Hill Fellowship recipient Zofia Sablinska.

PHOTO BY GRANT TERZAKIS

“I started when I was 16, sewing in buttons as a costume assistant for free,” recalls Sablinska. “I really connected so much with Debra because she did the same thing. She knew the set inside and out. It took me a few summers, each one on set, to figure out what I wanted to do, and when I landed on producing, something opened up.”

2007 fellow Eleonore Dailly felt a similar kinship when she researched Hill’s trajectory.

“Like her, I had a passion for cinema from a very young age and started producing and directing documentaries before moving to feature films and television,” says Dailly. “When I later worked with Jamie Lee Curtis, we spoke of Debra Hill’s fierceness and how she embodied the joy of willing a project into existence and building a community in the process.”

Dailly was working in the story department at Amblin when her boss asked her to analyze the Halloween franchise as a model for developing sequels.

“Some of the themes in those films felt incredibly relevant to me even decades after they were made,” says Dailly.

2022 fellow Maggie Bailey grew up watching The Fog with her dad and felt familiar with Hill’s early work, but it was at film school that Bailey learned more about Hill’s career—and most importantly, her advocacy.

Bailey, who works predominantly within the Austin, Texas, independent film community, acknowledges that it was difficult to find mentorship within that small space. Hill’s commitment to nurturing emerging producers deeply resonated with Bailey.

“I aim to seek out opportunities to mentor and uplift young producers,” Bailey says. “I aspire to not only create compelling films but also to invest in the rich narratives and unique perspectives of my peers in Texas.”

When 2013 recipient Rob Cristiano learned more about Hill while applying for the fellowship, he was moved by Hill’s seriousness about the importance

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WHAT A LEGACY LOOKS LIKE

impacted them and their career. “It was important that the applicants really thought about it and gave legitimate answers because it’s so easy in this business to be forgotten,” Hurd says.

“We felt it was important to continue her legacy with the next generations and to make sure that she continued to be remembered and celebrated.”

Adds Dailly: “Producing requires a relentless drive, commitment to an original idea, the ability to translate that unique vision to wildly different collaborators, and to continue to champion it, sometimes for years, from the initial lightbulb moment all the way to the first screening when you get to that finish line. Debra Hill made those qualities look effortless.”

When Deniese Davis was selected as the 2012 fellowship recipient, she described herself as “a very young aspiring producer from Las Vegas, Nevada, graduating at the age of 24 with very big dreams to tell stories that could change the world.”

“The fact that I was singled

out for this award gave me the utmost confidence in my skills because the largest producing organization in the world—successful, well-accomplished producers who I greatly admired— deemed me worthy of my ambitions,” Davis says. Bailey shares the sentiment, adding, “This kind of recognition holds immeasurable value for me as an emerging producer, affirming the support and validation of my work by a respected industry community.”

Fruits of the Fellowship One member of the selection committee offered to mentor Davis. Another gave her the opportunity to produce a proof-of-concept short film with their company. Three years after being awarded the fellowship, Davis produced her first television pilot for HBO. During the decade that followed her fellowship award, Davis founded Reform Media Group and has produced two documentary films plus three series for HBO: the Emmy-nominated Insecure

and A Black Lady Sketch Show, and the newer music comedy Rap Sh!t.

Bailey is currently producing two documentaries, one with the support of Latino Public Broadcasting and the MacArthur Foundation, and the feature documentary Our Body Electric about women in bodybuilding. “It has been in production for over a year now, and, except for a few day players, we have exclusively worked with an all-female team,” says Bailey.

“My connection to the PGA has given me a wealth of knowledge and allowed me to ask many producers I respect for their advice when I’ve needed guidance— even when the advice is just a confirmation that, yes, fundraising is hard.”

Since 2007, Dailly has started two production companies and produced features and series across the globe, broadening her experience across genres, formats, continents and languages.

“The award gave me the confidence to dive into independent producing and start pursuing my own projects while continuing to learn about filmmaking at

Maggie Bailey on the set of The Lone Rider, a student film at the University of Texas at Austin directed by Tiger Hill in 2019.

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WHAT A LEGACY LOOKS LIKE

Sony and Disney,” she says.

“Following in the footsteps of a filmmaker like Debra has given me the confidence to champion these many projects in spite of the many systemic challenges.”

The first feature Cristiano produced after receiving the fellowship was Bob and The Trees, which premiered at the 2015 Sundance Film Festival and won the top prize at the Karlovy Vary International Film Festival the same year. His other producing credits include Stay Awake, which received a special mention as part of the 2022 Berlinale Generation 14plus program; Cannes Film Festival selection Down with the King; Sundance Grand Jury Prize winner The Miseducation of Cameron Post; and 2017’s Keep the Change, winner of Best U.S. Narrative Film at the Tribeca Film Festival and the Critics’ Award at Karlovy Vary.

Each of these fellows is working to continue Hill’s legacy in their own way, intensely focused on their unique projects while standing for something greater—sustainability, diversity, set safety, unfettered creativity, and, of course, the importance of giving back.

“Producing is often the role that is the most influential but the most overlooked,” Davis says. “I hope that I can continue Debra’s legacy as an innovator within the film and television industry as a storyteller who champions the underrepresented while being a guide to those who aspire to do this work.”

Defining the Job When thinking about Hill, Halloween is the title that most likely comes to mind, but she had many noteworthy titles to her credit. She produced The Fog, Escape from New York, The Dead Zone, and two Halloween sequels. Before the two went off on their own, Hill/Obst produced the Oscar-nominated The Fisher King. Films like Clueless, Adventures in Babysitting, and Big Top Pee-wee reflected Hill’s zaniness and humor, traits that friends and colleagues remember fondly.

Hill’s command on the set was cultivated over a dozen-plus years in roles including production assistant, director, and second-unit director. She filled in wherever and however she could, no matter the task.

Austin’s career trajectory has mirrored Hill’s. “Having those experiences makes for an assured, decisive producer, and Debra was definitely that—a real straight shooter with a broad skill set,” Austin says.

“Debra always stood on the set with her legs straddled, her hands on her hips, ready for anything. I think of her all the time in that pose because she was both so comfortable on set and so ready to go, whatever the issue was,” says Obst. “Her posture represented that ability to jump into action or stay out of the action, whichever was best required for the moment.”

Oscar-winning producer Bruce Cohen describes Hill as “the ultimate producer, performing the job with excellence and innovation across every aspect of the filmmaking process from development through production to distribution.” A huge fan of Hill’s work, Cohen was thrilled to come to know and love her personally while producing the Producers Guild of America Awards for several years.

Many of those whom Hill worked with emphasize again and again that

Issa Rae and Deniese Davis on set.

DENIESE DAVIS

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“I HOPE THAT I CAN CONTINUE DEBRA’S LEGACY AS AN INNOVATOR WITHIN THE FILM AND TELEVISION INDUSTRY AS A STORYTELLER WHO CHAMPIONS THE UNDERREPRESENTED WHILE BEING A GUIDE TO THOSE WHO ASPIRE TO DO THIS WORK.”

WHAT A LEGACY LOOKS LIKE

the people behind a film were of utmost importance to her, whether crew, cast or characters. Hill was happiest being on a team of equals, serving in partnership with writers, directors and departments alike. “She was a whiz in production,” says Lauren Shuler Donner, who was at Paramount with Hill in 1985 when they were producing Pretty in Pink and Clue, respectively. “She had a great work ethic and loved her crews. I know that everybody loved working with her.”

At a time when the industry is driven by technological advancement more than ever, Hill’s friends know that she would have remained a steadfast humanist.

“The story and the characters always came first, and it was always about achieving whatever was in a scene in the best and safest possible way,” says Hurd.

Todd Black admired Hill’s nononsense approach. “If it was X budget, she would figure out how to get it there,” he says. “She was a big problemsolver. She was the kind of person who made you feel everything was taken care of.”

“Her whole thing was dealing with people directly and problem-solving with the person versus closed doors or emails,” Black adds. “She would make them feel a part of the solution versus sending out emails or texts. “It’s that personal touch. I hope that whoever gets these fellowships can follow suit.”

Hill’s generosity was matched by a fierce determination. “Debra and I both fought the studios for what our movies needed,” recalls Shuler Donner. “In both our cases we wanted to use a different film lab, but then Paramount had to deal with it. Dawn Steel was head of Paramount at the time and her head of postproduction would complain to her about ‘those girls!’”

It was Steel who suggested that Hill and Lynda Obst team up to combine their unique strengths in production and development. Obst recalls that while the idea was for one to teach the other, the experience revealed that each had great instincts that they were not

aware of until they began trading skills.

“Debra could put any prep together in the world in a minute under budget.

But when I came to town on Adventures in Babysitting, she had to learn that you don’t always hire the cheapest hair and makeup people and wardrobe people, certainly when you’re on a studio film.

She taught me logic and how to do a scary set piece,” Obst says.

“She was really great at talking to directors and about the tone and scale of a set piece. And that’s in the script, not just in production alone. Debra taught me that in development, so that I could better prepare my scripts for those kinds of moments that she was an expert in.”

Stacey Sher lives by two “Debraisms.” Number one: no job is too big or too small for the producer. Number two: There is no above and below the line. “We’re all just one crew moving forward, trying to make our day and make a great film. Those are the things

that have guided and continue to guide my career today,” says Sher. She and Hill were working together to produce World Trade Center when Hill passed away in 2005.

Obst treasures specific landmarks in her partnership with Hill, especially when times are tough. In difficult moments on set or trying to push the proverbial boulder up the hill during development, Obst’s thoughts turn to lunch.

“When Paramount put our first movie Adventures in Babysitting into turnaround, we were so confident of setting it up elsewhere that we sent it to every studio. Then we went to the big lunch place that everybody went to at that time called Le Dome.

“And with everybody wondering if we were going to be OK, we both ordered steak tartare. We said, ‘Bring it on!’ Now, whenever I have a really hard moment during the struggle of getting a movie made, I go out for a steak tartare.”

Rob Cristiano with director Diego Ongaro at the premiere of their 2021 film Down with the King.

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WHAT A LEGACY LOOKS LIKE

Eleonore Dailly on the set of Netflix’s Dangerous Liaisons.

Gale Anne Hurd, who was among the group that established the Debra Hill Fellowship, was assistant to prolific producer Roger Corman when she met Hill. “There was no way that I could in any way advance her career, but Debra was there for every woman.”

Women Supporting Women Hurd and Hill’s relationship grew while the two served on the board of Women in Film (WIF). Hurd recalls that when WIF was founded in 1973, there were very few women in leadership roles in Hollywood.

Since the roles open to them were so scarce, it was a matter of survival for a woman in power to withhold support for other female colleagues who might threaten their job security.

“Women in Film was founded essentially to provide networking and to show women that supporting other women was the right thing to do,” Hurd

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DEBRA-ISMS 1: NO JOB IS TOO BIG OR TOO SMALL FOR THE PRODUCER. 2: THERE IS NO ABOVE AND BELOW THE LINE. says. “Debra exemplified all of that.”

Hurd credits Hill for helping define what was possible in science fiction, fantasy and horror film. “I don’t believe I would have the career that I have had she not blazed that trail first,” says

Hurd, whose film credits include The Terminator, Aliens, and The Abyss, as well as The Walking Dead for television.

“It was difficult at the time because the horror genre was not considered women’s films. It was thought that we should stick to women talking in a room about men. Debra defied that first and better than anybody.”

Hill gave of her time in many ways.

She served on the Producers Guild board, and for several years she joined Lauren Shuler Donner in teaching a course at UCLA about the producer’s role in filmmaking.

Notably, Hill championed the cause of environmental sustainability long before addressing the climate crisis became a corporate imperative. Alongside other leaders in film, television, music, radio, and advertising, Hill was a founding board member of the nonprofit Earth Communications Office (ECO). The group was created in 1989 to harness

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WHAT A LEGACY LOOKS LIKE

The Debra Hill Fellows the capacity of the entertainment industry to increase environmental protection awareness and action.

“She was the most positive, supportive, optimistic person I have ever known in this industry,” Hurd says. “Her indomitable spirit to this day is unmatched by anyone else within or outside the industry.”

Maggie M. Bailey

The Future Looks Bright

Development Executive for Narrative Feature and Episodic Entertainment at Rodger Dodger Studios

Hill’s legacy will continue to enrich the industry far into the future.

Future recipients, identified as trailblazers in Hill’s mold, will no doubt evolve film, TV, and new media, continually optimizing how productions are run and the quality of stories being told. A feature documentary, Hollywood Trailblazer: The Debra Hill Story, is in the works, codirected by Jim McMorrow and Margaret McGoldrick. Jamie Lee Curtis has signed on as an executive producer.

During the event celebrating the 2023 fellow, PGA Executive Director Susan Sprung said, “What started as a collaboration with people who knew and loved Debra has blossomed into a diverse and dynamic community of the next generation of producers and production executives at a time when being a professional, creative person has never been harder in this industry.”

Says Shuler Donner: “I hope that these filmmakers carry on Debra’s commitment to her crews, her ethics, and her uncanny wisdom about production.” Todd Black adds, “If these young producers could find half the drive and commitment and problem-solving capabilities that Debra had, it would be fantastic. I think the fellowship is helping us do that.”

It’s safe to say that every fellow is nothing if not committed.

“Following in the footsteps of a filmmaker like Debra has given me the confidence to champion these many projects in spite of the many systemic challenges,” says Dailly.

“I think often producers feel the need to succeed before they are able to support others who aspire to do the same work as them, but Debra continued to lift as she climbed,” says Davis. “Her legacy was to support both ambitious projects and women, no matter the odds, and I only hope to do the very same.”

Rob Cristiano dedicates himself to being an open, trustworthy, and positive collaborator to keep Debra’s spirit alive. “It’s about asking ourselves what we as the filmmaking community can do better, how we can be better to each other, how we can lift each other up, and to pursue those things even when it’s hard or the path isn’t clear,” he says.

Sablinska, who will use her fellowship funds to develop a project in Poland, has thought a lot about the mission of the fellowship and the hopes invested in it—namely, that recipients might use the momentum to create work that might change the industry for the better in the many ways Hill did. “Those are huge shoes to fill,” Sablinska says. “No one can change the world alone. We are able to change it together.”

She adds, “I promise that when the time comes for me to give back, I will strive to give the same support and love that I was given.” ¢

Director and Producer, Moving Together (2023 Dance on Camera Festival at Lincoln Center)

Asia Coleman

Rob Cristiano Founder of Inside Voices, The Miseducation of Cameron Post (Coproducer), Bob and the Trees (Producer)

Eleonore Dailly Owner, Autopilot Entertainment, Codirector and Producer of Sundance Film Festival official selection Dirt! The Movie (narrated by Jamie Lee Curtis)

Jessica Daniels Jessica Daniels Casting and former Vice President of Casting at Walt Disney Television

Deniese Davis Founder/CEO of Reform Media Group, Producer, Insecure, A Black Lady Sketch Show, Rap Sh!t

Ashleigh Foster Writer/Producer/Head of Development at Honora Productions

Montserrat Gomez Vice President of Drama Development at NBCUniversal

Jacob Jaffke Pearl (Producer, p.g.a.), X (Producer, p.g.a.), Bodies Bodies Bodies (Executive Producer)

Monique Keller Head of Development at Dreamchaser

Diego Najera Director of Narrative Films at Participant

Lucienne Papon Executive Vice President of Creative Affairs at ITV Studios America

Zofia Sablinska 2023 graduate, American Film Institute

Rachel Vine Film/TV/Fiction Writer

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It’s time to give deaf and hardof-hearing creatives complete access to Hollywood.

The Deaf community has much to say about how that can happen.

Written by Katie Grant

“If Children of a Lesser God (1986) broke open the barriers to Deaf representation, CODA (2021) was the tidal wave that followed,” says Academy Award-winning actor and Deaf advocate Marlee Matlin. “We may not have achieved parity, but I see much more advancement now on behalf of the Deaf community in Hollywood than what happened after Children of a Lesser God.” This advancement is most obvious in front of the camera. But what about behind the scenes? Are deaf creatives really included in the whole process of making film and TV from start to finish?

“Hollywood is not ready for deaf people,” says Toj Mora. The deaf film/TV editor, producer, and post producer—whose credits include Deaf U and Beyond Inclusion—expressed this dismay matter-of-factly through his American Sign Language (ASL) interpreter.

But when you consider that CODA won Best Picture at the 2022 Academy Awards and Sound of Metal was nominated for six Oscars in 2021 (winning two), why isn’t it?

“One of my favorite producers, Jessica Rhoades, once said to me, ‘This system is made by and for hearing people, and then they expect deaf people to function in it the same way hearing people do.’ That hit me hard,” says Shoshannah Stern, the first-ever deaf showrunner and co-creator of the series This Close.

“Rather than rely simply on a deaf consultant, why not try to engage them and include them in the development, writing, directing and producing of the project?” asks Matlin, who was part of the cast of This Close. Matlin is confident that there are plenty of deaf writers, producers, directors and actors, but adds, “We should be laying the groundwork for many of those individuals who may not be in any of the unions or guilds to find the proper and

accessible entryway.”

“We’re not quite there 100% of having a deaf crew at the Hollywood level,” says Mora, “because at the top level, the decision-makers are still very resistant and scared to take that risk. But they are the ones who are taking the risk by not hiring deaf people. They’re putting authenticity at stake because of that.”

ADD AN ‘A’ TO DEI Marginalized. Otherized. Stereotyped. Excluded.

Categories deaf people are lumped into all too often.

But rarely are deaf people considered when it comes to addressing diversity in a production.

Actor, producer and writer Natasha Ofili cofounded 1IN4, a coalition named for the statistic that 1 in 4 adults in the U.S. have some type of disability.

“Our mission at 1IN4 is to have Hollywood add ‘A’ to DEI,” says Ofili. “It’s access that’s missing from diversity, equity and inclusion. How can we be inclusive, equitable and diverse without access?”

Producers have the power to create accessibility and boost inclusivity for deaf performers, crew, and other creatives in their productions. But doing so raises concerns. To start, can you afford a substantial line item for ASL interpreters at the top of your budget?

Alek Lev, a producer known for What? and California Connect: Communicate Your Way, puts it this way: “Let’s make it simple. It’s your legal responsibility to provide access. Don’t make anyone fight for it. Everyone, from the people who are gluten-free, to the people who are wheelchair users, everyone has something they want and need.

“Every film is a small business, literally and spiritually.

So you have the rights and responsibilities of a smallbusiness owner. The way the ADA was originally constructed, if you have more than 15 people on the payroll, the ADA applies to you.”

What if Hollywood stopped putting people with

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Writer-director-producer Alek Lev (above right) and deaf actor-writer-director-producer John Maucere (right) are among the industry’s strongest advocates for inclusivity of deaf crew and talent—and authenticity of deaf stories.

disabilities in a different category and just viewed needs as needs? Lev adds, “I think the concept is that everyone has needs on a set and to look at them all, for lack of a better word, neutrally.”

Lev believes that communication and accessibility don’t need to be seen as problems to be solved but considerations to be addressed equally on par with other production needs.

BREAKING DOWN STEREOTYPES A shift in perception about deaf people starts with breaking down stereotypes and opening to facts. DJ Kurs, artistic director of Deaf West Theatre in Los Angeles, says, “Honoring Deaf culture

requires thorough research and an appreciation for intersectionality. Each person has a unique background and experience both within and outside their deafness.”

“There’s so many different ways to be deaf,” Mora says. “If you’re able to interact, meet and make friends with deaf people,

it would really change your worldview.”

Ofili was one of the first Black deaf actors animated on a TV show (Undone) and the actor behind the first ever Black deaf character in a video game, Hailey Cooper in Spider-Man: Miles Morales, proving that deaf actors can not only speak, but speak well enough to be

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voice talent—a reality that many hearing people may not appreciate.

Seeing deaf people as the individuals they are naturally lends itself to creating authentic stories. John Maucere, deaf actor, writer, and producer of What?, emphasizes that a working script is just the start. “You often have a hearing writer writing a deaf character. We need to make sure that it is authentic.

That’s part of what an ASL consultant can do for your screenwriter and your producers,” says Maucere. “Make sure you have your ASL consultant from the very beginning. Once you have that, it’s going to lead to everything else.”

But, Stern notes, “While there’s been a boom incorporating deaf characters in stories, the expectation is for them to behave in a way that hearing people presume they will. The worst, and unfortunately most constant thing I’ve heard in developing stories is, ‘Well, we can make it authentic, or we can make it good,’ as if there’s no way we could possibly have both. These things can and should always coexist.”

One way to achieve that is to always hire deaf actors to play deaf characters.

When Patrick Wachsberger set out to adapt the French film La Famille Bélier into CODA, there was no question about hiring deaf actors. He and the film’s director, Sian Heder, insisted on casting deaf actors in the deaf roles for the most authentic production they could create–something that the initial investors were not behind.

Producer Sacha Ben Harroche certainly intended to make an authentic story with Sound of Metal. But when it came to accommodating the needs of deaf and hard-of-hearing (DHH) people, Ben Harroche admits the team made plenty of mistakes as they were blazing the most recent trail for Deaf stories in Hollywood. “(Director) Darius Marder spent two years in the Deaf community,” recalls Ben Harroche, “so he knew a lot. He knew sign language, but he didn’t know how to really structure the shoot for deaf actors and for the deaf crew.

“We hired ASL interpreters who we

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started out calling ‘translators.’ That was the first big mistake of semantics.

People educated us with a lot of affection and empathy for our ignorance and guided us into the right vocabulary and the right way of talking about the needs of the Deaf community. And the fact that, you know, deafness for them is not a handicap. Truly.”

“One thing I always tell writers,” adds Shoshanna Stern, “is keep the Deaf experience open and tailor it to the actor you hire. Not all deaf people use hearing aids, and not all of them sign.”

When Toj Mora became part of the experience, it was on the reality show Deaf U. He did the first pass for accuracy of the sign language and what he calls “ASL continuity.” Then it went to the hearing editor. “I explained that sign language is very different from what you’re accustomed to,” Mora recalls. “It’s a visual language. It changes everything about how you edit. Deaf editors really

need to be brought in at the same time as the hearing editors.”

Basic creative solutions include asking deaf actors if they need a second take. “If a line was dropped in English, they would do it again,” says Maucere.

“If it’s dropped in ASL, you need to speak up for yourself and say, ‘I didn’t do that line correctly. We need to do it again.’ The question is what do you care more about? The story and the quality of work or simply the budget?”

WE ALL NEED TO LEARN Deaf people need access to communication tools to do their best work on a set. Unfortunately, those tools—such as ASL interpreters, captions and transcriptions in the writers room, and designing the environment to meet the needs of anyone regardless of disability—are often an afterthought or seen as a cost-prohibitive hurdle. “Is it ideal to have an interpreter sitting right

Producer Sacha Ben Harroche on the set of Sound of Metal.

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next to the script supervisor if they don’t sign? What would be ideal is a deaf script supervisor,” says Mora.

When asked if there should be a required course for producers in DEI that includes how to make a set accessible for deaf and hard-of-hearing cast and crew, Ben Harroche is emphatic: “One hundred percent. There are programs to learn how to make a budget. There are programs to learn how to properly behave on set. This should also be a part of the training producers receive.”

That class, ideally taught by a deaf person, would include a simple checklist: When speaking with a deaf person using an interpreter, look at the deaf person, not the interpreter.

Make sure you are making eye contact and speaking loudly and clearly enough for the interpreter to hear and understand you. Also understand that the interpreter is there for the hearing people to be able to communicate, not only the deaf person.

This information needs to be taught in film schools. Maucere’s daughter, who is hard of hearing, is studying TV and film at the University of Arizona. “She’s a senior now and there was not one mention about accommodations in four years. We need a course about all kinds of accommodations for folks with all sorts of needs and all sorts of disabilities.”

The syllabus for this proposed course would also include having your script translated into ASL before you shoot, and using fewer close-ups—that is, keep the actors’ hands in the frame and show the signing. “Shoot open gate, no matter what resolution you want to use in frame,” Mora contends. “Then you can always pan it up or down. Shoot wide.”

“Explain to everyone on the crew, all the cast, everyone in the production, how to work with the deaf talent and the interpreters,” Maucere recommends.

“This happened to me on the set of Diggstown. I was the only deaf person there out of a huge production, but I

never felt alone.”

The interpreters should also be there from the very start in meetings, the writers room, auditions, location scouts, table reads, ADR sessions and sound mixes. Consider them part of the writing team and always have at least two interpreters so they can give each other breaks.

It’s also necessary to ask actors about their interpreter. “Sometimes the interpreters are not a good fit for the assignment, whether for personality reasons or skills or whatever,” says Mora. “The deaf person should feel safe enough to say, ‘Hey, I would like to switch out this interpreter.”

“My number one piece of advice: You must budget the sign language interpreters first,” says Alek Lev. “They are the most expensive thing per minute on set, but it’s the cost of doing business and it will pay back in the artistry.”

During shooting, Stern suggests keeping the room as open as possible

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Left: A still from the Academy Award-winning film CODA. Right: Producer Patrick Wachsberger on the set of CODA.

so that the actor has the sight lines they need. “Never have a character’s back be turned or have them read lips in the dark,” she says. Flashing lights can be used for visual cues and safety.

Remember, deaf people cannot hear the standard knock on their trailer door.

When productions are creatively solving problems and access is successfully provided for deaf actors, it ensures high quality for performances and the project overall. When Stern was on Grey’s Anatomy, showrunner Krista Vernoff brought her into the writers room to help with developing the character. Vernoff had writers send drafts to Stern for notes, had line producers reach out to ask what Stern needed on set as far as accessibility, and had editors send cuts to her.

“I got to have conversations with them about when they should be focusing on the character’s signing without depending on the voiceover of the interpreters,” says Stern. “It really starts at the top. Krista let everyone

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know they needed to listen to me—and they did.”

Another crucial person to listen to is the ASL interpreter. Eva Tingley is an ASL interpreter, actor, producer, writer, and a CODA—child of deaf adults.

“What a lot of people don’t understand is that the interpreter job is exhausting because our brains are working on both sides simultaneously,” Tingley says. “So you get tired really, really fast.”

REQUIRING INCLUSION As of 2024, the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences will have inclusion requirements to meet if a film is to be nominated for a Best Picture Academy Award. Those who have been largely marginalized hope this will help put the entire scope of human experience on the screen and provide for their needs behind the scenes.

Deaf filmmaker Jade Bryan shares her support for this idea. “When I shadowed director Jonathan Demme on the set of Beloved, there was no

computer, there was no access, no way to communicate or share ideas,” Bryan says. “I was crying, because I was watching everybody talking and I felt left out. Everybody was laughing and connecting. It was beautiful, but I wasn’t part of the experience.”

Furthermore, being a great filmmaker is a possibility that doesn’t only apply to hearing artists. “It’s all about the eye, right?” Maucere points out. “It’s what a deaf artist sees. It’s different. Deaf and hearing eyes are different. That’s the gift from God: that it’s how we see and what we see.”

Ofili used that gift to make a film in 2020. “When I produced my short film, The Multi, we filmed it during the pandemic and we had Zoom interpreters,” she recalls. “We had large television screens, tablets and smaller screens in other rooms. It was accessible for everyone, both deaf and hearing crew members. It was new, utilizing technology in that way, but it was obvious that it could be done.”

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Deaf filmmaker Jade Bryan (right) with DP Aitor Mendilibar on the set of The Two Essences, Bryan’s story about a bicultural, hearing/deaf family.

Stern says, “I’ve heard from so many people that they’ve watched This Close for inspiration or education when making shows with deaf characters.

That both touches and frustrates me, because most of these shows don’t have deaf people in creative or producing positions.”

When asked if he had been worried about how CODA would be received in America, Wachsberger says, “I didn’t go into that much thinking then. I was like, ‘Oh my God, there’s a great story there.’”

Ultimately, great stories are how we change our worldview. And accommodating DHH cast and crew can help create more truly powerful stories‚ whether or not they are Deaf stories. So, Hollywood: Are you listening? ¢

“WE’RE NOT QUITE THERE 100% OF HAVING A DEAF CREW AT THE HOLLYWOOD LEVEL, BECAUSE THE DECISION-MAKERS ARE STILL RESISTANT AND SCARED TO TAKE THAT RISK. BUT THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE TAKING THE RISK

BY NOT HIRING DEAF PEOPLE.” —TOJ MORA

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ON THE MARK VALERIE STADLER shares THE experience OF making HER LATEST FILM, which earned her the Producers Mark certification.

Interview by Lisa Y. Garibay

Aristotle and Dante Discover The Secrets of the Universe Valerie Stadler, p.g.a.

T

he feature Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe marked producer Valerie Stadler’s first book-to-screen adaptation. Set in the border city of El Paso, Texas, the story centers on the tumultuous yet tender experiences of two teens facing truths about family, cultural norms and their own sexual identities.

Turning Benjamin Alire Sáenz’s much-loved and lauded 2012 young adult novel took more than seven years of determination and innovation on the part of Stadler and writer-director Aitch Alberto, who in 2022 became the first trans director to make Variety’s 10 Directors to Watch list. Along the way, the duo picked up support from such collaborators as Eugenio Derbez, Eva Longoria and Lin-Manuel Miranda.

Stadler was motivated by the opportunity to give a voice to those who often don’t have one in film and TV, and to create a space in which more people could watch themselves reflected by the cast and their performances.

“Everyone understands intuitively how important it is to be seen and how important it is to have representation,” says Stadler, who cofounded Big Swing Productions with Meredith Bagby and Kyra Sedgwick. Prior to Big Swing, Stadler was head of production and development for Fluency, a multiplatform studio under NBC Universal.

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As a member of the Outfest board of directors who identifies as queer, Stadler felt immense fulfilment bringing Aristotle and Dante to the screen—a singular opportunity for both personal and professional expansion.

WHAT DREW YOU TO THE PROJECT? I was working at NBC Universal at the time, and I was looking for YA books that lived a bit outside of the typical story we’re used to hearing. My assistant brought it to me and I read it in a day. I just fell in love. The irony is that when I met with Aitch to talk about a different project, I asked her if she had anything that she was working on.

She brought the first draft of the script out from under her chair, and I had the book sitting on my desk. It was fated that it came together the way it did.

HAD AITCH ALREADY SPOKEN TO SÁENZ ABOUT ADAPTING HIS NOVEL, OR DID YOU APPROACH HIM TOGETHER? Aitch had drafted a script without ever talking to Ben. Then she reached out to him. She went all the way to El Paso and read the script to Ben, and they had this beautiful moment where he said, “The boys used to be mine, but now I’m giving them to you.” Soon after that trip, Aitch and I came together on it.

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Reese Gonzales and Max Pelayo star in the coming-of-age story of two Texas teens facing truths about family, culture and their sexual identities.

This is where a producer comes in. Aitch and Ben had spoken, but she didn’t have the rights, there was nothing in place, she hadn’t spoken to the agent. From a practical business standpoint, I was able to come in and help. There are two sides to the job of producing. One is a creative partnering where you’re helping to usher the project and make it work. Then there’s making sure from a business point of view that all those things are in place.

GIVEN THAT IT WAS YOUR FIRST ATTEMPT AT DOING SO, WHAT DID YOU DISCOVER ABOUT ADAPTING A LITERARY WORK FOR THE SCREEN? It was really gratifying to understand what you need to keep and what you lose. It’s a conversation we had all the time. We wanted to treat the audience with the intelligence and the dignity that folks deserve. I think it was a very elevated swing at a YA adaptation.

DID YOU FACE ANY OBSTACLES WITH FINANCING, GIVEN THE BOOK’S CONTENT AND WHAT IS OFTEN CONSIDERED MARKETABLE? I mean, who in Hollywood doesn’t want to finance a story about two queer brown boys falling in love? Not everybody’s ready to throw money at that.

It’s really hard to get independent films made. Then you throw a first-time director into the mix. It was challenging to put the money together, and it took a long time. When we’re putting together a movie, I’m doing two things: telling a story and managing fears. What is the way to get people to feel less afraid of taking a risk on the film?

Getting other people to take a risk on it.

There’s a funny thing about making movies in general: You have to have an abnormal amount of hope, belief, and optimism to think you can push something through.

There are so many ways films can fall apart. But Aitch and I had this almost pathological belief that we would be

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a universal story for those who resonates to it. We focused on making the film the best version of Ari and Dante’s story from Aitch’s specific point of view, then allowed the intelligence of the audience to find themselves reflected in it.

WHAT DID YOU DO DAY-TODAY TO HELP AITCH, THE ACTORS AND THE ENTIRE BODY OF CREATIVES FEEL SECURE DURING THE SHOOT?

Director Aitch Alberto with Gonzales and Pelayo.

able to get the film made.

Part of that was our belief that Lin-Manuel Miranda was going to be a part of the movie (as a producer). He had read the audio book, and we never even entertained the idea that he would say no, which is hilarious. We tried all the normal routes to get to him. At one point, Aitch just tweeted at Lin and Lin responded. A week or two later, we were all sitting together.

When Lin comes, he’s like, “Hey, it’s not so scary, come over here. It’s fun over here.” Then Eva (Longoria) came in, and it becomes, “Both Lin and Eva think it’s fun over here. You should come over here.” Eugenio came in through Ben O’Dell. This notable and talented group of Latinx folks all rallied behind the project and very much behind Aitch. She is the force around this film. To produce a great movie, you need a powerful writer, director and creative vision for the film. She never wavered in her belief that this was her story to tell. Because of that, it became a little easier to bring these folks in.

Also, it doesn’t hurt to have a book that’s sold a million copies. At the time we were making the film, the book’s sequel was coming out, which pushed the original book onto the bestseller list for the first time. So we started with a beloved piece of IP, but it was also a bit of a secret. But you can’t underestimate the fans of this book.

AT UNIVERSAL, YOU RAN A STUDIO CREATING CONTENT AIMED AT THE HISPANIC AUDIENCE. DOES ARISTOTLE AND DANTE DISRUPT THE NOTION THAT THERE IS A UNIFORM HISPANIC, LATINX OR SPANISH-SPEAKING AUDIENCE? I think it’s such an unfair burden to place on a story, this idea that it can be everything to everyone. That’s a surefire way to make something that will appeal to nobody. It’s a ridiculous notion that Aristotle and Dante will speak to all Latinx folks, or even to all Mexican folks.

Aitch and I talked about how this is

Aitch and I developed a specific routine that we did every day without fail. At the beginning of the day we would spend a moment where we would all focus as a company. It was beautiful, it was intentional, and we would get through the day.

Every night, we would go to the same restaurant and order the same food. It was one less thing to decide.

We’d have a conversation: “How did this day go? Was there anything that we could learn from?” Then move on to, “What does tomorrow look like? What are you afraid of? What am I afraid of?

Do we have everything we need?”

As a result of that, we were really locked and loaded with one another.

We were being as thoughtful as we could about making sure that something wasn’t going to sneak up on us.

Of course, things sneak up on you all the time. But we were trying to avoid the obvious stuff so we could deal with the unexpected.

So we were able to make choices when the unexpected came up. We shot one scene as a single shot and we both looked at each other and said, “We’re never going to cut away from this. Let’s move on.” It’s scary to say, “We’re not going to get more coverage on this thing.” But we felt like we could make that decision with our DP Akis Konstantakopoulos, who was phenomenal.

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ON THE M A R K

Veronica Falcón, Max Pelayo, and Eugenio Derbez in Aristotle and Dante.

impacts my life in a very particular way. And there was the responsibility of championing a director like Aitch and giving her this first opportunity to direct. She has a voice, and she deserves for it to be amplified.

I don’t take any of those things for granted. I remind myself, “This is a marathon, not a sprint. Keep your feet moving. Be a good collaborator. Get through the painful stuff and celebrate the wins.” I’m a real proponent of celebrating the wins. If they’re small, I don’t care. Celebrate them. ¢

WAS THERE ANY TIME DURING POST WHEN YOU THREW UP YOUR HANDS IN RESIGNATION? No. I am not a throw-up-my-handsin-resignation person. I know when I start a movie that there’s going to be pleasure and there’s going to be pain. I care less about the specifics of the pain

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and more about the way I can navigate through them. Can I navigate through them with grace, with kindness, with integrity? If I can, then I know I can navigate the ship through those waters.

It was an awesome responsibility to be part of telling the story of Aristotle and Dante. It’s such an important story to tell. I am a queer person; this story

Certification via the Producers Mark (represented by p.g.a.) indicates that a producer performed a major portion of the producing functions in a decisionmaking capacity on a specific project. Criteria, its definition, the process for earning the mark and other particulars can be viewed at producersguildawards.com.

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hroughout awards season, PGA members have access to Producers Guild Screeners, the dedicated screener platform hosted by Indee. This platform provides a secure and quality viewing experience for members on native apps across all major platforms, including AppleTV, iOS, Roku and Amazon Fire.

During the 2022–23 awards season, the Indee platform hosted screeners in all long-form motion picture categories. For 2023–24, we expanded to include television series submissions as well.

Members will already have received our emails with instructions about how to download the platform’s app and get started. Be on the lookout for additional emails announcing each title as it becomes available on the platform.

A primary reason the PGA selected Indee to host its screening platform is the company’s responsive customer service. If you experience any issues with the platform, please reach out to support@indee.tv.

A live chat function on the platform itself provides additional support.

This digital-only effort aligns with the PGA’s industry call to action to transition to clean energy and the commitment to sustainability that the Guild began enacting in 2008. Over the years, we have consistently been asked, “How do I recycle my screeners?” With Indee, this is no longer a concern.

To ensure that members have access to as many titles as possible, we also permit studios to send members their own access codes for studio-hosted FYC sites.

To keep abreast of the latest news about screeners, visit and bookmark producersguild.org/screeners.

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IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF GIANTS

AN AI ODYSSEY Ivor Powell has been a pioneer in both depicting AI and utilizing it judiciously to create screen magic.

Written By Lisa Y. Garibay

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he questions driving artificial intelligence (AI) contributed to the longest strikes in Hollywood history. Depictions of AI in film and TV have ranged from docile domestics to cold, disembodied killers. Some of the most seminal portrayals that have resonated throughout decades appeared in 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968), Alien (1979) and Blade Runner (1982).

Ivor Powell worked in various production roles on all three films, helping to bring to life (so to speak) the disembodied, calculating computer HAL 9000 in 2001; Alien’s duplicitous android Ash; and Blade Runner’s genetically engineered replicants.

The producer’s fascination with AI began in childhood when his mother took him to see The Day the Earth Stood Still in 1951. “I just thought it was real,” recalls Powell.

“I found the Gort character—the artificial intelligence, so to speak— quite terrifying.” A few years later, the more benevolent character of Robby the Robot in Forbidden Planet opened Powell up to a completely different side of AI. It was Powell’s aunt, noted film critic Dilys Powell, who gave her nephew a way into the film business by connecting him to Roger Caras and Victor Lyndon, both of whom worked with Stanley Kubrick. In 1965, Powell—who up to then had been working with West End Theatre and the BBC—was offered a spot on the crew of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

“Kubrick was my hero from Spartacus,” says Powell. “The fact that he was doing a sci-fi movie was

Ivor Powell with Caleb Landry-Jones on location for Finch (2021).

Below: Powell with Finch robot characters Jeff and Dewey.

a double whammy for me. I would have done anything on it.” Powell’s duties on set spanned working for the publicity team to standing in as a first AD to appearing in the film as one of the hibernating astronauts on board the Discovery One spacecraft. While working with the art department, Powell was mentored by the film’s VFX supervisor, Douglas Trumbull. (Years later, the two would again work together on Blade Runner.)

While HAL 9000 possessed a soothing voice, was capable of twoway communication, and even sang and read lips, the computer wasn’t anthropomorphic. “It was simply a machine that had basically been programmed to do its job,” says Powell.

The danger of this form of AI is not its defiance, but its compliance.

“It was a very brave, novel way of using AI, and I think it endures today because it is a cold example of AI in its remorseless superiority,” he adds. “If it’s been given a directive, that’s what it will do, no matter what gets in its way, including us.”

A decade later, Powell was associate producer on Alien, helping to bring new AI characters to the screen under the direction of Ridley Scott. The two had previously worked on Scott’s The Duellists, a period film set worlds away from the groundbreaking, extraterrestrial thriller. The futuristic look and feel of Alien were rooted in classic filmmaking techniques—matte paintings, scaled models and effects done in camera. The type of helpful AI that could have generated flashi-

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IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF GIANTS

er effects was still out of reach.

“We were on the cusp of a new age, but it hadn’t quite happened yet,” Powell recalls, adding that Scott desperately feared his antagonist in Alien might come across as nothing more than a man in a rubber suit. But due to technological and financial limitations, Powell says, “Unfortunately, our man in a rubber suit was a man in a rubber suit, hanging on wires and rigs.”

Star Wars had recently stormed the cinemas, generating pressure to capitalize on the likes of C-3PO and R2D2. But no friendly robots were aboard the spaceship Nostromo. Instead, actor Ian Holm portrayed something that appeared human but was actually the synthetic protector of an underhanded mission. The film’s team used a combination of plastic tubing, wires, milk and pasta for Ash’s robotic innards after it has been destroyed for attempting to murder his crewmates.

Alien’s other AI character is Mother, the ship’s mainframe. Its complexity is portrayed by walls of blinking lights, a whoosh mimicking human respiration, and jargon on a monochrome screen. Mother is even more primitive than HAL 9000, but like HAL, Mother is programmed to execute at the expense of the human crew.

By the time Blade Runner rolled around a few years later, CGI had made massive strides, but Scott and the design team relied most on practical effects to create a dystopia in which humans are caught in a moral mess of their own making. This type of AI is not predicated upon literal computing or mechanics. It is biologically engineered for a specific task and programmed with an expiration date to prevent it from developing full consciousness.

“But sci-fi can be so cold without the empathy that you get from real, developed human characters,” says Powell. The makers of Blade Runner committed to a human story; replicants bleed and suffer and die. “And as each Nexus model became more sophisticated, they became more human than human, with artificial memories to complete the picture.”

In addition to a heated debate between Scott, star Harrison Ford, and the screenwriters about whether the film’s protag-

Top: Ivor Powell on location in White Sands National Park for Finch.

Above: Dilys Powell, Ivor Powell, Heather Sears and Aldo Ray on the set of The Siege of Pinchgut (1959). Below: Ivor Powell, director Ridley Scott and producer David Giler on the set of Alien (1979).

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IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF GIANTS

onist himself was a replicant—or whether that even mattered— Ivor the filming of Blade Powell Runner was beset by (right) production problems. on the set of Powell was hired as Blade an associate producer, Runner. segued to overseeing second unit shooting, helped producer Michael Deeley in the scramble for new financing when the original backers pulled out, and acted as a sort of gatekeeper for Scott so the director could focus his energy behind the camera.

Despite the aesthetic feats that helped make Blade Runner a revered classic, Powell only recently came to appreciate it. “I’d had enough time to be detached from it and forget about all the anguish of making it—because it was difficult,” he says.

“But it’s clicked. I really do feel the emotion and think, ‘My god.’ And it doesn’t age.”

A taste of this is depicted in The Dreamer (2001), a futuristic drama Powell cowrote and produced with director Miguel Sapochnik. It was influenced by the 1961 short film An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, which depicts the visions flashing through the mind of a prisoner being hanged for treason during America’s Civil War. “It’s always in the back of one’s mind. The fragments of one’s life that make up who we are,” says Powell.

In Powell and Sapochnik’s adaptation, clones have been created to, again, do man’s dirty work. Genetic engineering has scrubbed these beings of human emotion, and they are terminated when their purpose has been served. But when facing death, they may be more human than we think. The film is sparing in its use of effects, and the machinery depicted on screen does not look different from what we use today.

In 2021, Powell and Sapochnik again explored the fuzzy line between humanity and artificial intelligence. Despite its postapocalyptic setting, Finch (directed by Sapochnik and cowritten

by Powell and Craig Luck) uses AI to preserve one of the strongest bonds between sentient life-forms: a man and his dog.

A massive solar flare has obliterated parts of Earth’s ozone layer, rendering areas of the planet uninhabitable for most life-forms. Human engineer Finch Weinberg (played

by Tom Hanks) survived the initial cataclysm, but knows his health is failing. During the short time he has left, Finch works to build Jeff—a throwback to clunky, metal robots of yore—and program him to do what it takes to care for

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Goodyear, the canine companion who has given Finch a reason to live. How human does Jeff need to be to carry out this mission?

The story addresses a question Powell has been kicking around for much of his career.

“When AI reaches a certain point of consciousness, how is that consciousness going to feel? Is it going to want companionship? Is it going to be able to survive without that?”

Practical effects in the form of a complex robot were brought to life by the performance of actor Caleb Landry Jones. The heartbeat of Finch is a genuine connection between characters, human or otherwise. VFX supervisor Scott Stokdyk describes the process of creating Jeff as “an evolution of artificial intelligence,” somewhere between traditional puppeteering and CGI animation.

As Powell develops more projects exploring AI, he is determined to keep the process as human as possible.

“I would hate to have to rely on AI putting the words together for me to write a script, certainly at this current moment in time. There’s nothing like a human mind, with all its frailties. And I emphasize the frailties, making mistakes as you’re working on a script. I think the fact that we’re flawed is one of the key ingredients. If you suddenly have perfection, perfection can be boring.”

But Powell, like many others, worries about how AI will affect livelihoods. How many of the human artists behind film, TV, and new media will be out of a job? There’s no question that AI benefits the creation of film and TV. CGI can bring worlds to life. ChatGPT can aggregate research to inform a pitch. Image generators can create affordable concept art to help carry a film from fundraising through production.

It’s people, more than processes, whom Powell thinks back to when he assesses what made 2001, Alien and Blade Runner resonate so powerfully. “Without them, we’d be absolutely nowhere.” He waxes about the brilliant concept designers and storyboard artists, including the legendary Syd Mead, and crews on every set on both sides of the Atlantic who were “bloody amazing.”

“The drama is much stronger if you see AI as a dark force, the antagonist,” Powell continues. “But I like to see the good side of it, including its contribution to filmmaking.” ¢

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