Diapason - John Eliot Gardiner interview April 2023

JohnEliot Gardiner

Eightdecadesandfivecenturies

FornearlysixtyyearsJohnEliotGardinerhasbeenconductingorchestrasaroundthe worldandachoir,hisMonteverdiChoir,aninstrumentnotatallold–always younger.OnApril20,hisbirthdaywillbeacelebrationofmusic,withoutborders betweenVerdiandMonteverdi,MozartandElgar,BerliozandBach.

BYIVANA.ALEXANDER

Élyséesattheendofthe20thcentury,you mayhavethoughtthatourmaestro's cherishedcomposerwasGustavMahler. SymphonyNo.4onFebruary2,1994withtheHamburgNDR, ofwhichhewasthen"musicaldirector".Nextconcert,April 17,1998:SongoftheEarth(andSinfoniettabyJanacek)with theNationalYouthOrchestra.Andwhatwasthenearby recordstoreselling?LiedereinesfahrendenGesellenwithAnneSofievonOtter. However,atthesametime,dependingonwhetheryou visitedLondon,ViennaorParis,JohnEliotGardiner remainedtheapostleofMonteverdi,themasterofthe Handelianchoir,thechampionofBerliozwhose SymphoniqueFantastiquehebroughtbacktohisnative auditoriumandensuredtherecreationworldofalostmass. OrthebatonofthelightmuseswhichdrewfromtheWiener PhilharmonikeraMerryWidow,anEspañabyChabrier,a Tourbillon-GaloppbyLennerpromisedattheNewYear's Concertthatwearestillwaitingfor.Orthecelebrantofa BachMilleniumintwohundredcantatasinauguratedtheweekofChristmas1999.

If you frequented the Théâtre des Champs

Elusive,inexcusable,themanneverthelesshasastyle.

Tigerinthestudio,catinconcert,theclearandround gesturedetectingthetinycreaturethroughthepolyphony, irresistibleswing.Whichwearegoingtofollowbysaluting hisninehistoricalmuses,beforegoingtomeethim.

MONTEVERDIIt

allbeginsonThursdayMarch5,1964.Amountedstudent fromhisnativeDorsethasputtogetherachoirwithoutamodel.

Adult and mixed choir revealed in the nest of cherubs that made Cambridge famous: King's College Chapel.

Admitted to university to learn history and classical Arabic, the young man did not discover choral art.

Oratorios by Haydn, requiems by Britten, Fauré, Verdi, symphonies by Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, psalms by Victoria, Vivaldi, Lili Boulanger, dances by Rachmaninov, Dvorak, operas by Mozart, Bizet, Stravinsky, songs by Kurt Weill, poems by Elgar… each time at the heart of the matter, spending nights auscultating

Asachild,hesangBritishfolkloreasafamily,Janequin, Palestrina.Attheageofeighteen,hehadtrainedsome fifteencomradesintheMiddleEast,whomheledasif hehadalwaysknowntheartofunitingvoices.But today,thehourisserious.Ontheprogram:Monteverdi's Vespers,aworkheoncediscoveredontheradio,and whichheheardasyoungashewas,sonorous,Latin, dramatic,contrarytolocalcustoms.

This audacious chorus will be called Monteverdi. Monte verdi signs that don't deceive - isn't John Eliot

theautographscoreofPelléasetMélisande,theletters ofBach,theplanoftheVienneseformations,thearchives oftheFrenchRevolution.

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bornin1943,thetercentenaryofhisdeath?

Monteverdioperas(thethreesurvivors,Orfeo,PoppeaandUlisse, inconcertinSalzburgthesamesummerof2017),madrigals, psalms,ballisincewordsdanceaswellastheysay.Butfirst Vespers,thestarthatwillguidethecaravanforhalfacentury.First award-winningalbumin1974:LesVêpres.FilmatSanMarcoin Venicein1989:Vespers.Anniversaryofthechoirin1994:Vespers.

Newfilmforanewanniversaryin2014underthefrescoesofLa FosseinVersailles:Vespers.Spiritualsignature:Vespers.

PURCELL

AfterMonteverdi,thedecisiverecordthatwillmakethechoirmaster amusician,period,isanalbumwithtwocontrastingsides:luminous sideA,anodetoQueenMary'slastbirthday;obscureB-sideatthe Queen'sfuneral.

Hugesuccess,onceagainthankstoStanleyKubrick,whoseA ClockworkOrangehasjustpopularizedthefuneralmarchinan electronicarrangementtowhichthemusicmanpreferstheversion with(modern)brassandtimpanieditedbyThurstonDart,recorded inearly1976byhisdisciple.Butalsothankstothedebutante FelicityLott,toanimpetuousduoofcountertenors,toascintillating choir.

Theorchestraremainsmodern,theagilelittlebrotherofanalready obsoleteEnglishChamber.

Afewmonthslater,theEnglishBaroqueSoloistswerebornandan apocryphalTempest,anIndianQueenburningwithpoetry,anOde toheavenlySaintCeciliaarrivedoneaftertheother.Morethan Monteverdi,Purcellisin1980thebanneroftheyoungesthete,who perseveres.KingArthuralittlelightbutvisitedbythegenius(notso muchCold,morepassacagliaand"blestshepherds"onedge), majesticFairyQueen...

Theseprestigeshaveonlyonetimebutasufficienttimebecause thenewstravelsquickly:FridayJanuary25,1980,wellbeforethe publicationofthedoublealbum,KingArthurresoundsonRadio

France(samesoloists,sameconductor,butchoirandhouse orchestra!);thefollowingDecember1,theOdetoSaintCecilia accompaniesthechef'sentryintotheChâtelet–hisunofficial theaterforaquarterofacentury.

In1977,theyoung conductor joineda new ensembleinthe MonteverdiChoir: theEnglishBaroqueSoloists. Aturningpoint?A metamorphosis.

Highpointin1995duringthetercentenary:thesoundtrackofTony Palmer'sbiopic,England,MyEngland.

HANDELIf

becauseofVespersthechoiriscalledMonteverdi,justicewould haveitcalledHandel.UntilDixitDominus,itwasanalternative bothtoamateurchoirsandtoCambridgechapels.Thenhewas themaster.

OnthatdayinOctober1976,theMonteverdiChoircutintovinylan elan,averb,apaste–countertenorsonthealtolinewhopurified thepolyphonyandliberatedthesopranos.Aunique,definitive style.Handelwillthereforebefirstofallchoral:AftertheDixit,Israel inEgypt,Solomon,Alexander'sFeast,Messiahor,fromJanuary 1980,anodetothelandscapes,clouds,variablemoodsofEngland, L'Allegro,ilPenserosoedilModerato.Nothing,anywhere, approachesthesemineralwatercolorswithhumancurves.

In1977inInnsbrucktheprimitiveversion,withoutchoir,ofAcisand Galateachangedinstruments.TheMonteverdiOrchestra,founded in1968undertheinfluenceofThurstonDartandCharlesMackerras, wasfollowedbytheEnglishBaroqueSoloits.Notaturningpoint: ametamorphosis.TheHandelsafterdonotlookliketheHandels before.Thepitchhasdropped,thepagehascometolife,rhythm andcolorhaveincreased.Semele(inconcertbetterthaninthe studio),WaterMusic,theConcertigrossiarelandmarks.

invinylamomentum,averb,apaste, auniqueanddefinitivestyle.

Missionaccomplished.Therelaychangeshands.

BEGINNINGS1943bornin FontmellMagnainDorset,onApril20th.

1964foundstheMonteverdiChoir…

1968 thentheMonteverdiOrchestraatthesametimeashefinished hisstudieswithNadiaBoulanger.

1969firstopera:TheMagicFluteatENO.1977founds theEnglishBaroqueSoloists.1981runsthe HandelFestivalinGöttingenuntil1990.

themostchoralcantatas,fightinglikehellagainstJoshuaRifkin andthepioneersofthe“chorusofsoloists”.

Curiousforamusiciansensitivetoconditions,instrumentsand originalplaces,whohadjustexchangedhisorchestraforsoloists. Andyetlogical:“Ihaveanorchestra,achoir,scoreswherethey excel.

Mydutyisfortheinterpretationtobeasdeepaspossiblewithall themeansatmydisposal.»

TakeschargeofCBCVancouverfortwoseasonsonly.1982 stagecreationofLesBoréadesbyRameauattheAix-enProvencefestival. retiredin1994.

1983foundedtheOrchesterdel'OpéradeLyon,whichheconducteduntil 1988.1990foundedtheOrchesterRévolutionnaireet Romantique.1991succeedsGünterWandatthedeskoftheNDR(Hamburg),

2005openswithhissecondwife,IsabelladeSabata,theSDGrecord companywhichpublishesalmostallofBach'scantatas,mostofthem recordedduringtheBachMilleniumintheyear2000.

Itisalsothatin1981JohnEliotGardinertakestheleadofthe HandelfestivalinGöttingen,whosepanacheherestores.

Hercules,Saul,Alexander'sFeast,Solomon,Jephtha,Tamer lano–theconductor'srareincursionintooperaseria–…an enchanteddecadeatthefestival.

“BetweenMonteverdiandMozart”,hesays,“noonehasbetter graspedtheextraordinarydiversityofemotions,offeelings”.For lackoftime,meansoropportunity,severalpromisesremainsilent. AfterGöttingentherewastalkofAriodante,ofSamson;atthe beginningofthecenturywespokeofBelshazzar,ofTheodora, withoutfollow-up.Thereremainstheprinvinepsalm.Paying homage,intheSaint-SéverinchurchonNovember21,1979,to NadiaBoulangerwhodiedamonthearlier,itwastheDixit Dominusthattheformerstudenthadchosen.Dixitre-recordedin 1998,filmedinVersaillesin2014,neverputaway,alwaysready toserveintheluggageofthechoir.

BACH

“IwasbornunderthegazeofBach.Alookcapturedin1748by thepainterEliasGottlobHaussmann.Theownerhadentrusted thisportraittohisfriendRolfGardinerintheearly1940s,sothat itwouldremainsafefrombombs.

TodayintheLeipzigHistoricalMuseum,thisintractableeye followedthefirststepsoflittleJohnEliotinthepeacefulhomeof hisparentsRolfandMarabelinFontmellMagna(Dorset).

ThisiswhythefuturemaestroalwaysplacedtheCantorona separatebase.April1980:motets.Thentwocantatas(including hisBWV4compass,fixedneedleintheorderofaperfectworld). ThenthePassions,theOrchestralSuites,

Afewmorecantatas:attheendofthe1980sthetemplerested onsolidcolumns.Butatthisratewewillneverfinishit.Alsoin 1994JohnEliotGardinerannouncesthatthechangeofmillennium willhaveforhimonlyoneobject:thetwohundredcantatas repeated,sung,recordedaroundtheworld.IntheorybyArchiv, historicaldepartmentofDeutscheGrammophonwheretheteam recordedBachsince1985.Only,suchanoperationwouldbind theeditor.Talks,conflict.

Archivresigns,GardinerleavesArchiv.Seekandfindwaysto savetheBachPilgrimage.Holdsitsbet.

FoundshisownrecordcompanycalledSDG–forSoliDeoGloria, toGodalonetheglory,acronymaffixedbytheCantorhimself.

Semele deHandelversion 2019,with LouiseAlder andLucileRichardot.

Themonumentsaysmorethanstubbornness:faithinart,strength ofspirit.ThechefwillthenaddhisbookMusiqueauchâteaudu ciel,thecredoofalifetime.Andotherpilgrimages:ontheway toCompostelain2004,onedaysoon,hehopes,ontheSilkRoad, Venice,Ispahan,Samarkand,Beijing.Butwillalwayscomeback toBach.

Thismonth,aroundhisbirthday–MassinBminorfromHamburg toVersailles.May6forthecoronationofhisfriendCharlesIII. Bach,theBible.

Hisidentitycard.

• John Eliot Gardiner

RAMEAUAfter theconcertofMarch5,1964,theharpsichordistGeorgeMalcolmcongratulates thebeginner:bravoforMonteverdibut“youshouldbeinterestedinRameau”. Notknow.

Goodidea.

AfewtrieswithMalcolmandit'stimeforstudies.

BetweentwolessonswithNadiaBoulanger,thestudentdevours manuscriptsandprintedmatterattheNationalLibrary.For example,thisunpublishedworkheldasanaccessory,LesBoréades.

Whatashock!Hecopies,returnstothecountry,presentsthe workatQueenElizabethHallonApril19,1975,theeveofhis thirty-twoyears.ConcertbroadcastbytheBBCwhoseechowill resonateforalongtime–itisherethatanotheryoungsternamed SimonRattlediscoversRameau…

Notyetthefinancialortechnicalmeanstorecordsuchadifficult score.In1977,welimitedoureffortstoanactattheFêtesd'Hébé withtheMonteverdiOrchestra.

Modernformationreversedafewweekslaterbythe EnglishBaroqueSoloists.Thesound,finallythesound! It'stime.RadioFranceispreparingtoimmortalizeLesBoréades.

However,anastutepublisherobtainedfromtheStaterights comparabletothoseofacreation,Rameaunothavingbeenable tohavehisplayperformedbeforehisdeath.Jealouspublisher, exorbitantrights,LesBoréades,scheduledforJanuary24,1981 avenueMontaigne,mustbereplacedbyLesFêtesd'Hébé. Immediatelyfollowedbyacapitalrecording:allthedancesof DardanuswhichcondemntoobliviontheacademicDardanus givenalmostatthesametimeatthePalaisGarnier.

Toobad,let'spay.Jean-PierreBrossmannandLouisErlolaunch themselves:thenewmastersoftheAixfestivalannounce,from theiropus1,thecreationonstageoftheBoréadesby

Gardinerandhistroops.Newsetback:ArianeMnouchkine renounces.Jean-LouisMartinotyreplacesherandLesBoréades finallytearaparttheProvençalnightonWednesdayJuly21, 1982."Auniqueblendoflove,fantasyandsensuality",thusthe chefhearsRameau,thiseveningandalways.Forthefirsttime, ancientinstrumentsresonateinamajorinstitution.ThisJuly21 opensanunforeseenera,refoundsthefestival,underathunder ofbravoswhichwillredoublethefollowingsummerwhen,forthe centenarytriofthecomposer,JessyeNorman,JoséVanDam, RachelYakar,JohnAler,JenniferSmithandJulesBastinwill singHippolyteandAricie.

Butthisgoldendawnisfollowed…bynight.Aquarterofacentury withoutRameau.AfterAtysin1987,Parisnolongerneeds London;agenerationtakesflight.GardinerchoseCastorand PolluxforhiseducationaltriptoSowetoin1997aswellasforhis “PrivateDomain”SallePleyelin2007,andimmediately rediscoveredthemobileaccents,thecolorfuldance.Without tomorrow.Thebeautyinthewoodshebroughtbacktolifein 1982lefthimforotherpalaces.

Jean-Philippe Lafont, JenniferSmith andGilles Cachemaillein thelastactof LesBoréades in1982.A dateinthe historyofRameau, ofinterpretation, ofAix-enProvenceand…ofmusic.

GLUCK

Gluck,discoveredtheyearofhisthirtiethbirthdayatCovent GardenwhereColinDavisgavehimhisdeskonNovember 9,1973–SenaJurinacisIphigenia,RobertMassard, Orestes:noblebaptism.Gluck,approachedonrecordin 1981bytheballetDonJuan.Gluck,firstmaster,three yearslater,ofabrandneworchester.

AfterthetriumphoftheBoréadesinAix,LouisErloandJean PierreBrossmann,whoalsogovernedtheOpéradeLyon, decidedtobreakwiththeOrchesterNational,conductedby

SergeBaudoandfoundaseparateone.Lasthoursof symphonicambitioninFrance.Evenmoredaring:appointa youngconductorfromHandelandRameauwhoonlyhasan institutionalbackgroundforaseasononVancouverradio.

That'swhatthey'relookingfor.Freshair.Inauguraltitlein 1983:IphigénieenTaurideprecisely."Ifwecanplaythis repertoireproperly",maintainstheconductor,"wehaveasolid foundationforapproachingtheromanticrepertoire."

OtherGluckswillfollow–IphigeniainAulide,ThePilgrimsof Mecca,OrpheusBerliozversion.ButalsoCountOry'sRossini, Offenbach'sLesBrigands,Messager'sFortunio,Chabrier's L'Etoile...andaboveallPelléasetMélisandeinitsprimitive, clear,thickform,culminationofashortmandatewhoseheroes weretwopariahs:classicismwhichisnotaninfirmity,French operawhichisnotasecondknife.

Lyonleftwithoutregret,JohnEliotGardinerspentthree seasons(1991-1994)attheheadofaradioorchestrain Hamburg–wherehewassucceededbyHerbertBlomstedt andChristophEschenbach.Beautifulconcerts,terribleclimate. "Iamagainstanyinstitution,"hesaidwhenheleft.Nopost followedindeed,neitherwiththeorchestranorwiththeopera. Liberty,darlingliberty.

Gluck,however,returnedwhenhisloyalsupportJeanPierre BrossmannrantheChâtelet.AlcestewithAnneSofievon Otter,OrphéewithMagdalenaKozena,aneloquentandagile Gluck,relievedofallemphasis.Unleaded.

MOZART

Firstopera,thankstothetrustofCharlesMackerras:an EnglishMagicFluteatSadler'sWellsinLondonin1969–he hadjustfinishedhisapprenticeshipwithNadiaBoulangerand discoveredthecruelworldofoperahouses.

Aworldhevisitedsporadically,withcaution:onlyonetitleat LaScala(KatiaKabanovain2006),oneinVienna(TheMerry Widowin1999),noneattheMet.NoMozartattheSalzburg Festival,whichhenonethelessattendsatregularintervals.

MozartwillratherbeforParis.NotattheNationalOpera whereGardineronlyconductedapassingAgrippina,one eveningandinconcert.ButatChâtelet,hishavenunderthe reignofStéphaneLissner.Firstthe“serious”Idomeneoand Titowithoutashow.Thenaspartofacycle–interrupted afterthesecondepisode.ItisherethatBrynTerfelwas revealed,dazzlingFigaroin1993.Hereespeciallythat,the previousseason,DoctorBaguettebecameMisteronstage. JohnEliotGardinersignshisonlyshow:Cosìfantutte. Devotionandinventioninequalparts,withouttomorrow.The directorwillgonofurther.

Cosìfantutte headedandput

byJohnEliot Gardiner atChâteletin 1992.Devotion andinvention

AmandaRoocroft andRainerTrost duetin onstage inequalparts.

DespitetheChâtelet,despiteaFlûteàOrangefrom1981, FigaroinAixin1985andafeweveningsinEurope,thegreat Mozartprojectwasneverthelessplayedoutfarfromthe theatres.Itwas,between1983and1987,thecomplete recordingofpianoconcertoswithMalcolmBilsononarecent copyofMozart'sinstrumentkeptinSalzburg.Sound,balance, rhythm,cadences:nothingincommon.Thedifferencewiththe moststylishofourModerns?“Tosound'mozartien',the Modernsmustrestrainthemselves,lightenthematerial, whereasonthemorelimitedinstrumentsof1780itisonthe contrarybyopeningthefloodgates,bypushingbackthelimits, thattheinterpreterdiscovershimselfMozartian.»

BEETHOVENNot

thefirst.InGreatBritain,the“historic”orchestrasofRoy Goodman,ChristopherHogwoodandRogerNorringtonhad precededit.Onmoderninstruments,NikolausHarnoncourt hadjustsplitthewalls.

Notthefirst,buttheseninesymphoniesrecordedfrom1991 to1994haveaflavorofrevolution,literally.

“WhatBeethovenhadinhisearwasnotHaydn,itwasthe FrenchRevolution.» Pompompompom/Pompompom pom:destinyknockingatthedoor?“Notatall,”replies Gardiner:“‘Wewillallgo/ironinhand’,sloganshoutedby CherubiniinhisHymnofthePantheon.»

TheapotheosisofthePastoral:borrowingfromHeinrich Knecht'sMusicalPortraitofNature?Instead,listentoJeanXavierLefèvre'sHymntoAgriculture,apatentmodel.

WhydidBeethovencrossouthisdedicationtothe“greatman” whenBonapartecrownedhimselfNapoleon?

Outoffidelitytothedreamof1789.Andwhyimposeon musicianstheinfernalkeysandfingeringsof1800whena modernorchestrathrillsyouwiththe9thwithoutflinching? Because"thisfeelingofalmostanimalstrugglewith

pushingbacktheimitatorsthattheinterpreter discovershimselfMozartian.»

“Onoriginalinstruments,itisin _

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theinstrumentisamarvelousstimulant”.Brotherlystrings andmilitarywinds,allofBeethovenisthere.Notprogram music:messagemusic.Withapoliticalmessage.Revolutionary –that'sthenametheconductorhasjustgiventohisthird orchestra,inFrench.

BERLIOZ

Orratheroneofthenames.Theotheris“romantic”. RevolutionaryandRomanticOrchestra,inauguratedbythe RequiembyBrahmsbutsonamedinhomagetotheSociété desConcertsduConservatoire,“themostbeautifulorchestra inEurope”inthe19thcentury.

AndtoBerlioz,ofcourse.“AgainsttheAmericanizationof orchestras”andinstrumentalcraftsmanship.AgainstWagner, "ormoreexactlytheterrible,profoundanddecadentinfluence ofWagner'smusiconalltheothers".

MonteverdiChoir infusion, Unleashed Revolutionary andRomantic Orchestra, life-size(living) statueof Perseus: BenvenutoCellini, RoyalAlbert Hall,2 September2019.

TheromanticinsurgentneglectedbytheFrench,savedby theEnglish:anurbanlegendwhichgoesbackatleastto ThomasBeechamandwhoseperfectincarnationwasColin Davis,themanthroughwhomtheyoungJohnEliotdiscovered Berlioz.Afewseasonslater,thestudentstudiedinFrance wherehesawthebirth,onNovember14,1967,ofthe OrchesterdeParis.CharlesMunchconductstheFantasticSymphony.

Causeheard:Hectorwillbehishero.InEngland,inGermany, intheUnitedStates,inSwitzerland(BenvenutoCelliniin Zurichforthebicentenaryin2003)andwithusfromtheLyon festivalin1982,evenbeforethefoundingofhisneworchestra attheOpera.DuringtheLyonyears–L’EnfanceduChrist, LesNuitsd’étéattheOpéraComique–FreischützBerlioz versionatRadioFrance–HaroldinItaly–andespeciallyat theChâtelet,underStéphaneLissner(DamnationdeFaust, 1990)orwhentheadministratorJean-PierreBrossmannleft LyonforParis–Nuitsd'été,Troyens(liveonFrance Télévisions),SymphonieFantastique(butnotLéliobecause ofeyedamage,titlecededtohisassistant,acertainFrançois XavierRoth)andMessesolennelle.

–,

JohnEliotGardiner

–, _ _

Solemnmasswithabittertaste.Disappeared,foundby chancein1992,thisyouthfulscorewastobereborninoneof thechurcheswhereBerliozhadheardit,SaintRochand Saint-Eustache.NoParisianauthoritygivestheslightest credittothisresurrection,itwasattheBremenfestivalthat thechefaccomplishedit,onOctober3,1993.

HewanteditatleasttobefilmedinSaint-Roch,likethe SymphonieFantastiquegivenattheendof1991intheformer auditoriumoftheConservatoire.BecauseJohnEliotGardiner firmlybelievesinthisspirit:thespiritoftheplace.Butno.The Masswillbefilmed…atWestminster.NomoreRequiemat theInvalidesin2003:hewillhavetowaituntil2012andthe Saint-Denisbasilica.TheseFrenchpeople,wedefinitely cannotcountonthem.

Fortunately,LaCôteSaint-Andréremains,amorethanfaithful festivalwhereFaust,Lélio,Roméo,Benvenuto,Haroldand friendspass.AndVersailles,acastlesohauntedsinceitonce againbecameapermanentfestival–Cléopâtre,LeCorsaire, laFantastique,BenvenutoCellini.

NextmeetingthissummerontheothersideoftheRhine,in SalzburgandintheBerlinPhilharmonic.Featured:Les Troyens.Inconcert,withoutahorsebutwith“allthenotes,so astogiveaversionthatBerliozhimselfhadneverheard”.Not whatwas.Whathadtobe.

DefinitionofRomantic.Whatmustbe.Definitionof Revolutionary.ÿ

TheRiteofanOptimist

Noquestionofretirementforthedashingoctogenarian!

Nortogiveintothepessimismlenttotheelders,evenifhelooksat theworldwithasharpanduncompromisinglook.

BYVINCENTAGRECH

purely gratuitous and speculative of his last years.

When he is not working the land of his

AnativeofDorset,SirJohnEliotrunsthe podiums,attheheadoftheensembleshe hasfoundedorthegreatsymphonicformations

who invite him. Two weeks after his birthday, he will contribute to the coronation ceremonies of King Charles III, his long-standing support. But will first blow out his candles in the middle of a tour of Bach's Mass in B, the key score of his almost sixty years at the pulpit.

An unavoidable choice, or a combination of circumstances?

Beethoven's Ninth,in2020 atthePalaude laMusicain Barcelona, withthe Revolutionary andRomantic Orchestraand theMonteverdiChoir.

Itisunlikelythatheheardmanyofthenumbersthat makeuptheMassduringhislifetime,butcertainthat theirstructuringembodiesanidealofhisimagination.

Les Troyens will take over this summer, in concert and not staged – a choice again?

JEG:No,simplequestionofmoney.Berlioz'simagination issorichthatitsufficestoconveytheemotionsofthe theatertothepublic,especiallyinCarthage.ButIhad loveddirectingtheworkonstageattheChâtelettwenty yearsago,andifthepost-Covidperiodhadnotbeensuch adifficultperiodforopera,Iwouldhavegladlyreturnedtothestage.

John Eliot Gardiner: An absolutely essential choice ! The Mass in Si is the masterpiece of masterpieces, nothing is more exalting for the soul, and I do not miss any opportunity to deepen it. Because it drinks from the immense corpus of cantatas, in the entirety of which we immersed ourselves exclusively almost a quarter of a century ago . Because remains, as so often with Bach, the mystery of the alliance between the constant cir of certain parts, probably written to help his son Wilhelm Friedemann obtain the post of organist in Dresden, and those which represent a

Mountains are made to be re-climbed again and again.

Wouldyouhavestagedthemyourself?

The format certainly has nothing to do with it, but nobody really understood that you didn't pursue this path after the very successful Così at Châtelet in the early 1990s...

JEG: But I continued! In a different form it is true, because the classic configuration with the orchestra in the pit did not fascinate me that much. Include musicians

inadramaturgy,rethinkingtheirplayingspace,Ihave muchmorepleasuredoingit.IntheoperasofMonteverdi, forexample,butalsoforHaroldinItalywhere,inRome, AntoineTamestitlenthimselftothegameofatraveling soloistwithinthedesks.

DoesthisbringyouclosertoyourcolleagueSimon Rattle?

JEG:Nodoubt,evenifIcouldn'thavegoneasfarashe didwithPeterSellarsinBach'sPassions.

Atmost,likewhenwegaveSaintJohn'sDayinOxford withoutanaudienceduringtheCovid,daringtodoa certainspatialization,withtheEvangelistinaraisedpulpit andJesusprisonerintheother–itwasawinkeye,while circumstancesimposeddistanceonus.

ButMarie-Madeleineinorgasmicecstasyinfrontofthe cross,Ifindithardtoadhere,becausetheeyeisalways strongerthantheearanddivertsitfromtheincarnationofmusic.

It'spurelypersonalthough,andIhavehugerespectfor Simon'schoices.Longlivedifference!

BetweentheMassinBandLesTroyensisa musicallylighterbutparticularlysolemnevent: yourparticipation,attheheadofyourensembles, inthecoronationofKingCharlesIII.Isitanhonoras aBrit?Ordoyoutakeanamusedlookat theseofficialcommitments?

JEG:IamextremelyproudthattheKingpersonallyasked ustobegintheceremonywithtwentyminutesofBach.He wasalreadyoneofourpatronsasPrinceofWales;he confirmsthisfavorassovereign,andIwillgladlymakethe manyroundtripsthattheeventimplies,rightinthemiddle ofaserieswiththeConcertgebouwofAmsterdam.This achievementseemsveryimportanttome,becausewe knowhispositionsonenvironmentalissuesandthoseof sustainableagriculture.Hewillnolongerbeableto expresstheminthesamewayonthethrone,butIam convincedthathewillbeabletobringpoliticalleaders aroundtheworldtoneutralgroundwherehisindirect influencewillbeveryreal.

its news

oneofthepioneersoforganicfarming,occupies abigplaceinyourlife.Doyourefuseartistic commitmentsforthat?

Inadditiontohisecologicalcommitment,wealsotalk abouthispassionforthearts,whichwould contrastwiththeindifferenceofhislatemother... Haveyouhadtheopportunitytodiscussthesethemeswithhim?

JEG:Ofcourse,manytimes!Wearefriends.Afewweeks ago,heinvitedustodinneraloneinWindsorwithmy partner,theharpistGwynethWentick.Wetalked,ofcourse, aboutthecoronationprogramme,butalsoaboutmusic education,thegeopoliticalsituation…Hecametomy farminDorset.Hisschedulewillleavehimwithevenless leisurethaninthepast,buteachencounterisagreatjoy.

Youractivityasagentlemanfarmer,partofafamily traditionsinceyourfatherwas

•

ONSTAGE

Bach: MassinBminor.

ONDISCS“The Complete Recordings onErato”. 64CD, Diapasond'or (seereviewp.xx). Versailles,Royal Chapel,April8. Luxembourg, Philharmonie,17.

JEG:Absolutely.Thesethreeweekswere,forexample, blockedinmydiaryforthebirthofcalvesandlambs.This balancemaybedifficulttofind,butitisnecessaryforme, andundoubtedlyfirstofallformyhealth,inviewofthe itinerantandstressfullifeofthemusician,betweenairport, concerthallandhotel.Ifindtheretheessenceofthecycle oflife,playingthereascoreasfundamentalasonthe podium.Thatofbeingrootedintheearth,ofgrassland,of reforestationthoughtofasakeytothebalanceofthe biotope,ofanimalfoodinscribedinthesustainabilityof resources.

YourFrancophiliabeingmoreoverasobviousoncattle asonmusicalquestions,ifmyinformationis correct...

JEG:It'strue.IlovetheFrenchterroirasawhole,butI haveaparticularpassionforAubraccows.Iveryoften invitemybreederfriendsfromAveyron,LozèreandCantal tocomeandinspectourlivestock;theseareprivileged momentsforme.

JEG:Lifeismadeupofdeparturesandreturns.Fortwenty yearsIwasaregularguestattheLSO,leavingthe Philharmonia,whichIconductedalotinthelastcentury.

Wemeetagaintoday,andtheirrefinement,theircommitment andtheirflexibilityenchantme.Iamalsoreconnectingwith theRadioFrancePhilharmonic,whichIhaddirectedinthe 1980sandwhichwasthen…notexactlythesameasitis today.ItisperhapsformethemostremarkableFrench formationforitsversatility,andIamimpatienttoplaythe Fantastiquewiththem,whichtheyknowbyheart,butwhere IhopetobringthemclosertothecolorsimaginedbyBerlioz towhichtheywouldn'thavethought.Aspartoftheintensive workcarriedouttogetherinrecentseasons,myclosenessis particularlystrongwiththeConcertgebouwforourBrahms cycle,theCzechPhilHarmonyforourDvorak,Sukand Martinu,andtheBavarianRadioforourSchuberts.Their abilitytointegratethecontributionofperiodinstrumentsina waythatisbothverypracticalandprofound,goingsofaras tomounttherealvoiceingutinordertoobtainalighter sound,withoutdenyingtheirmusicalnaturebutseekinga livingsynthesis,fillsmewithadmiration.

Thatyouhaveneverconductedaproductionatthe headoftheOrchesterdel'OpéradeParis representsanincomprehensiblemystery.Therewas neveraninvitation,yourefusedthem,orprojects failed?

JEG:Therehavebeenafewprojects,thelastofwhich,four yearsago,wasabouttobecompleted,Poulenc'sDialogues desCarmélites.ThentheCovidpassedby,andI

Ihaven'theardofitanymore.Letitbeknown,Iremainopen!

Iadorethisorchestra,thistheatre,whichIfrequentedso muchwhenIwasstudyingwithNadiaBoulanger–I'mtalking aboutGarnierforitsacousticsanditssetting;Iconfessless affinitywithBastille.

ThefinancialsituationoftheParisOperadoes notnecessarilyfavortheheaviesttitles...

Howareyourensemblesresistingthisgeneralcrisis, whichisparticularlyacuteintheUnitedKingdom?

JEG:Thedemandisthere,that'sthemainthing!ButBrexit hashurtusdeeply,economically,andbymakinglogistics muchmoredifficult.Averyactivecanvassingofpatronage allowsustofinancethedeficitbetweenthecostofproductions andthefeesthattheorganizersmanagetopaytoday,butit isadailystruggle.Ipaytributetoourwonderfulswimmer, RosaSalinas,whodeploysenergyandinventivenessatall times.Forexample,sheimaginedthatwewouldstartin Rome,infrontofCaravaggioattheVillaBorghese,atourof madrigalswhichwillthusparticularlyattractattention–the approachseemssoself-evidentthatwewonderwhywe didn'thaveit.notdonesooner!Andthankstoher,wewill returntotheUnitedStateswiththisworkthatIadorebuthad neglectedfortoolong,L'Allegro,ilPenserosoedilModerato byHandel.

Thecurrentcrisisisnotthefirstthattheworldof cultureisgoingthrough,butareyouafraidthatits magnitudewillbefataltocertainpartsofBritish artisticlife?ordoyouremainconfidentinthe reboundabilitiesofyourcompatriots?

JEG:Despitethescandalousindifferenceofourgovernment, andthelittlehopethatIhaveintheabilityofthenextto achievepositivechanges,Iremainveryoptimisticaboutthe qualityofEnglishartists,alldisciplinescombined,andtheir abilitytorenewthemselves.Thekeyistheyouth,enthusiasm andcreativityofyoungmusicians,includingthosestillin conservatories.ThisvitalityisseenlessinLondonthanin thecitiesofnorthernEngland-Manchester,Newcastle, Liverpool,York,whosemunicipalitieshaveoftenbetter understoodtheimportanceofculture.Willtheybeableto stepoverthegovernment'snegligence,andmakeupforthe disasterofBrexitalittlebyrestoringtheintellectual,artistic, economicandagriculturallinkwiththecontinent?The situationofcountrieslikeFranceandItalyshouldalsoterrify me,especiallyatatimewhenEuropeansolidarityintheface ofthewarledbyVladimirPutinisessential.

However,IseetheItalianssurvivingwholeyearsofacentral powervacuumthroughimprobablecoalitions,andItell myselfthatpeopledefinitelyhaveunsuspectedresources…

Butdothesepeoplestillneedthemusicweplay,old, classic,

contemporary?Youngartists,asdynamic astheyare,don'ttheycomeupagainst rejection,resultingfromsocialchangesinthe faceofdisciplinesbasedonsurpassingoneself, excellence?

JEG:Thisisafundamentalquestion.Foryearsnow, culturalinstitutions,likeindividualartists,havebeen deployingcolossaleffortsthroughouttheworldtorenew thepublicinitsagepyramidandsocialcomposition.The resultsseemedencouragingtous.Butnowthepandemic isemptyingthehalls,notalltheolderspectatorsare comingback,andthenweseethatallofthiswasnot enough.

Idon'twanttogeneralizeinanyway;thethirstfor rediscoveringliveperformanceaftermonthsofstreaming isrealforaudiencesofallgenerations,amongwhom youngpeopleareperhapsevenmorenumerousthana fewyearsago.Butthereturnoftheboomerangagainst artstodaystigmatizedfortheirsupposedelitism,even thoughwehaveprovenbyexamplethattheyconstitute thegoodofall,isoneofmymostseriousconcerns.,socalled“classical”musicbeingparticularlytargeted.The phenomenonreachesridiculousproportionsintheAngloSaxonworld,butEurope

follows,withalittledelay.Itisasifallthestudieshad becomeinaudible,establishingforyears,alloverthe world,thatamusicaleducationbasedondemandsisthe besttoolforintellectualdevelopment,andthereforefor socialemancipation.

Besides,dobaroquepeopleremainthebest advocatesofamusicthatrejectselitist caricaturewithoutrenouncingitsartisticambition?

InyourbookMusicintheCastleofHeaven, youwerealreadyseverewithregardtotheproponents ofaneworthodoxy...

JEG:Atermthatcanbeputintheplural,becausethere arebothorthodoxiesofmonotonythatescapequestioning, andofexaggerationsupposedtowakethepublicfrom theirsleep–somerecentMozartsinSalzburgtestifyto this.Symphonyorchestrasimpressmemuchmore todaybytheirstylisticopenness,theirgreatcleanseof theBéarnaisesauceconstitutedbygeneralizedlegato andvibrato,infavorofareflectiononbowingtechnique, therhetoricoftheornamentandportamento.Ialsohave acrazyadmirationforthesesoloistsofallgenerations whostartedfrommoderninstrumentstoconfronttheold ones,startingwithAndrasSchiff,certainlymyyoungest butclosetomygenerationofpterodactyls,andthe youngest,IsabelleFaust,AlinaIbragimova,Kristian Bezuidenhout,Jean-GuihenQueyras,AntoineTamestit… ButinnocasewouldIwanttoleadpeopletobelievethat allensemblesonperiodinstrumentstodayaresticking totheirlaurels;manyonthecontraryareresearching, innovating,particularlyinFrance,whereRaphaëlPichon andPygmalionimpressmealot.

Heirs,orabreakup?

JEG:Idon'tknowthemwellenough,havingonlyseen filmedconcertsandmetRaphaëlfourorfivetimes,butit seemstomethattheyhavethehonestytoassumethe heritageofpreviousgenerationsinordertotransformit –asWhenIwasyoung,IfedonBerliozbyColinDavis orMonteverdi,RameauandCharpentierbyNadia Boulanger.Iperceiveinthemboththeseriousnessof thepreparatoryworkandthecollegialityofthemusical gesture.TheresultistheseremarkableBachsandRameaus.

Let'sendwithaveryshort,butverydifficult question:whatachievementsareyoumostproud ofduringyourcareer?

JEG:DoyouknowtheEnglishexpression“Bringcoalto Newcastle”?Deliveringcoaltoaminingtown–inmy case,theirmusictocountriesthatweretheremayhave becomeindifferent.PlayMonteverdi'sVespersatSaintMarcinVenice,premiereLesBoréadesinAix-enProvence,conductLesTroyensinParisorBach's cantatasinsmallGermanchurches,soonrecord Janacek'sLittleVixeninPrague.Thisiswhathas alwaysexcitedmeandmademethemostproud!ÿ