Are you going to stay?
The Days Before The Silent Spring 2020
Lo Lai Lai Natalie
Transcript
Yes, to remain in the sun a little while longer
You and I are more or less the same size
Expanding slowly
Holding each other close
Taking nutrients in
麗：有 日我們問我們的耕種師傅
Lai: One day we asked our farming teacher
他見我們（生活館）十年有什麼評價
How he would evaluate the ten years we had spent in Sangwoodgoon
他最初不知怎說
In the beginning he wasn't sure what to say
覺得十年未算是什麼（成就）
He felt that ten years wasn't much of an accomplishment
十年也沒有什麼好說
There wasn't a whole lot to say about a mere ten years
他在半推半就之下
But since we pressed him to say something about it
說這其實是個 Miracle（奇蹟）
He affirmed that these ten years could be described as being a miracle
究竟這個奇蹟農場是什麼？
And where did the miracle lie, when it came to our farm?
奇蹟在於我們很小規模
The miracle was in the fact that we were operating on a very small scale
生產力不是很大
And that we weren't very productive
竟然十年也不倒閉
That we hadn't packed it all in after ten years
還繼續做
And that we continued to persist
這是其中 點
This was one thing
另 點 這是個「紅火蟻農場」
And for another thing, this farm was infested with fire ants
由第 日至今我們也跟牠們共存
From day one, we have been inhabiting this space alongside them
每 日我們看著牠們的沙丘蟻穴
Every day, we are in the presence of their dunes and nests
會被牠們咬到
We are bitten by them every day
至晚上也擾人清夢
They even disturb our dreams in the evenings
這個跟「水泡」共存的情況
That we have made our peace with the blisters that they inflict
可能也是個奇蹟
This is another miracle of sorts
這其實是堅持 還是固執呢？
Is this persistence, or sheer stubbornness?
Kith：其實做得有機 點就算了
Kith:Actually for us to push things in a slightly more organic direction is enough
開始時在菜園村有二三十人
In the beginning, in ChoiYuenTsuen, there were twenty or thirty people
我有次都這樣形容過
I described it this way once upon a time
其實生活館就像我們那些自來貓
Actually Sangwoodgoon is like a haven for stray cats
喜歡就來 各取所需 就是這樣
When they like, they come, take what they need, it's just like this
有些人覺得很有意義
Some people find it very meaningful
就會逢周末來出 身汗
And they’ll come out and work up a sweat every week
做到 些有意義的事情
To engage in something that has meaning for them
那就行了
And that's sufficient
過 段時間
Over the years
大家的工作忙
Everybody got caught up with work
有自己的家庭等
Or they were starting their own families
接著就不再來
And then they wouldn’t come anymore
也是可以的
That was fine too
麗：深刻的例子是你講各取所需
Lai: What left a deep impression on me was, you spoke of taking what we need
這個字在很多情況來說是貶義
Alot of times this sounds like a form of disparagement
覺得是在拿好處
That is, that people are just freeloading
但我會覺得很準確
But I think it's very apropos
說明了我們這群體為何聚在 起
It captures why it is that we have come together collectively
這種情況
This state of being
Kith：這個不單止是生活館
Kith:This doesn’t apply simply to Sangwoodgoon
在Para/Site的年代
In the days of Para/Site
我已經有這個體會了
I already came to this revelation
般美化的說法是大家志同道合
To put a fancy gloss on the situation, we would say that everybody shared one vision
諸如此類
Or something along those lines
但其實這東西並不存在
But this accord doesn't really exist
真正的志同道合是
Real unanimity would be
大家整個生活就是這件事
Our entire lives revolving around this one thing
個人發展也是這件事
Our personal development revolving around this one thing
個人事業也是這件事
Our careers revolving around this one thing
個人家庭也是這件事
Our families revolving around this one thing
但是這兩次令我體會到
But these last two experiences have made me realize
其實不是這樣
That it's not this way
尤其今次
Especially this time
我們往後就過這種田園式的生活
For us to live this idyll in the future
事實上發覺 當大家 起成長
In actuality, we came to see, as we all grew together
事業有所發展的時候 就會
As careers began to take shape, then…
實際來說就是有價值觀上的分歧
In reality the values we held began to diverge
當其時不太為意有這種分歧
We didn’t realize this at the time
依然總會側重那 面去看
直向好的那面去看
We would look on the bright side
說發展的時候
When we talked about development
但事實就是看不透
But the fact is that things were opaque to us
大家用這個機會
Everybody took hold of this opportunity
用這個項目、這地方、這機遇
This project, this place, this encounter
大家都在找自己的人生路向
Everybody was finding their own way in life
所以就說是各取所需
So to say that we were each taking what we need
意思是正面的
It's not a negative way of speaking at all
因為每個人都很不同
Because each person is different
最終每個人的發展路向當然不同
The path each of us takes to develop is different
他有這發展正正是因為參與了這件事
That they could grow in this way is precisely because they were involved in this
準確的意思是這樣
That's the proper way to grasp the phrase
麗：觀察自己怎樣影響
Lai:To observe the influence that you yourself exert
或你身邊的人怎樣變
Or how those around you are changing
才是最要學的東西
This is what it is most important for us to learn
正如你剛剛講家庭那方面
For instance, you just spoke of family
我覺得我們每個人
I think that each of us
這裡有很多個家庭
There are many families here
當 個人投身去這種生活的時候
When somebody casts themselves headfirst into this form of living
其他成員是不是真的可以
Are the other members truly capable
除了在價值觀上的理解
Apart from grasping things on the level of values
這可能已經很好
This could already be a very good thing
即使理解了價值觀
I mean, even if your family could grasp the values behind 在生活上也要配合到
In daily life, you also have to work it out with them
一開始時大家當然很有理想
In the beginning, of course, we had strong ideals
有一團火
We were full of zeal and ardour
什麼都可以答應
We would say yes to anything
但其實就要之後測試自己
But the tests would only come later
是否能夠繼續實行
To see whether we could really carry things through
Jenny：我想我們花了十年在相處
Jenny: I think that we spent ten years with one another
這不是沒有意義的
This was not futile
是的 離合是一定的
Yes, parting is a certainty
你也不能強求
You cannot force the issue
如果生活館和Kids Club是真的命題
If Sangwoodgoon and Kids Club are genuine propositions
我自己相信是真的命題
I believe myself that they are
我們其實每個人都會很主動地
I think that each of us would take the initiative
賦予這件事情該怎麽走下去
To contemplate the question of how we are to continue
你決定你的貢獻應該在哪裡
You make the decision as to where your contribute could lie
你在哪裡發起動議
Where you can take initiative
但如果去到這樣
But I think that if we were to get to this point
我覺得可以死了
I think that we can call it a day
我覺得已經是 個成就
I think it’s already a formidable accomplishment
實在太完滿
It's already complete
麗：應該可以的 在死之前
Lai: I think it should be possible, before the coming of our death
Jenny：不知道 我自己這樣想而已
Jenny: I don't know, this is just what I think
其實你想做什麼
Actually whatever is that you want to do
坦白說 你是應該有譜的
Frankly speaking, you should know the score
你不是傻傻地說我喜歡做Kids Club
You don't simply say, like a fool, I like doing Kids Club
你想達成什麼
What do you want to accomplish
你有 個隱約的想法在這裡
You make a secret agreement with yourself in this way
但好玩的地方是什麼呢
But where does the fun in all this lie?
當你再進入去
When you actually delve into the matter
它的細節裡面有太多東西會告訴你
On the level of details and minutiae, it will tell you
你還可以這樣想 這樣想 這樣想
You can think about it in this way, and this way, and this
事態會根據你每天如何思考這件事
As you meditate upon the matter every day
而有所改變
It changes
我覺得就像你說
I think that it is as you say
那種創造性就在這裡
Creation lies here
我隱約的目標和當初做生活館
The agreement that I made with myself and my participation in Sangwoodgoon in the start
其實沒有區別
Actually they weren't at odds with one another
就是人和人是否可以在 起
That is, can people be with one another
可以改善生活
Changing life
可以有創造力
Sharing in this creative force
生活是可以更好的
Life can be even better
這樣的想象
An imagination such as this
我很受師父（TV）影響的是
The most profound influence that masterTV had on me was
你能不能讓人覺得
Can you transmit to people
他其實有改變的可能
The sense that they can change
你點燃他這個東西
Once you set this process in motion
很多事情就會跟著來
Achain of events will naturally follow from this
我們有多能夠交出 個成績表
Could we produce a report card of sorts
說服別人這種生活方式是可以的
To convince people that living in this manner is possible
是可能的
Yes, it's possible
即使在香港這麼糟糕的地方
Even in a place as screwed-up as Hong Kong
也是可以的
It's still possible
這已經是我隱約的目標
This is the secret agreement that I made with myself
James：我覺得很大程度上
James: I think that for the most part
種植是一種贖罪
Farming is a form of atonement
我現在也不會開口說什麼土地發展
I'll not blabber on about agricultural development now
我很不想以這角色進入耕作
I never wanted to start farming with this sense of guilt
但有時 甚至我現在我生活狀態
But sometimes, even in my life right now
剛剛才去入油
I just filled my car up with petrol
然後就在說有機
And now I'm talking about organic farming
自己又坐飛機去旅行
I also take airplanes to go on holiday
我只是做好了自己腳下的 小塊
I've only cultivated my own little patch under my feet
不要說得太偉大
It's not something heroic
無論外面的世界有多扭曲
However messed-up the world is outside
我很清楚在這塊田上
I'm certain that on this patch of land
我每天要做到什麼
I'm certain about what I need to do every day
然後看著田裡的生態每日地豐盛起來
And then to see the ecosystem on it flourish and grow
這是耕作才會感受得到
This is a feeling that you can only get from farming
我問過很多人 短暫也好
I've asked a lot of people, whether in the short term
長時間也好
Or the long run
你對越後妻有的印象是什麼？
What is your impression of Echigo-Tsumari?
很多人都說是綠色的稻米田
Alot of people have spoken of the green rice paddy
很少會說是那裡的藝術品
Very few have spoken of the artworks there
那裡的鄉村風土給人很強烈的印象
The bucolic feeling of the place has left a very deep impression upon people
我們去就是在收成著這些美好的關係
When we went there, we went there to harvest these wonderful relationships
所以去到會有婆婆送西瓜給我們
So when we went there, a grandma gave us a gift of watermelons
就是因為村裡有這種信任
In the village you have this sense of trust
這些事會很自然發生
These things happen quite spontaneously
有外人來到
When strangers from afar arrive
她要把村裡最好的東西給你看
She has to show them the very best thing that the village has to offer
有西瓜 有青瓜
Watermelons, there are cucumbers
原來地球還有地方是這樣
It turns out that there are still places in the world that are like this
我們都不是在坪輋等長大
We didn't grow up in villages like Ping Che ourselves
完全沒有這些經歷
We don't have any experience of this
可能某種意義上
Perhaps, on a certain level
我們也在尋找這些東西
We are in pursuit of these very things
Rita：我很記得開初類似啟蒙
Rita: I remember that in the beginning it was a revelation of sorts
當時去台灣的農田
At the time, when I visited the fields inTaiwan
他（場主農夫）跟中學生們解釋說
He (the farmer who owned the farm) explained to a group of secondary students
因為我們的農作物不會自行落葉
Because our produce does not defoliate on its own
所以要幫它們蓋上草
So we have to cover them in grass
他在描述農作物的時候
When he was speaking of his produce
好像在說自己的孩子 樣
It was as though he was speaking of his own children
感覺好像真的在幫助 個生命
As though we were in the practice of cultivating a life
到我真正種田的時候
When I got down to farming seriously myself
反而我是不經常感受到
Strangely I wouldn't often experience this feeling again
我也想重新掌握這種感覺
I want to re-acquaint myself with this feeling, grasp it
但日常的勞動很容易讓我忘記這些
But the daily grind of work makes it so that I often lose sight of it
周：我是個很擅長欺騙自己的人
Chow: I am very good at lying to myself
我可以用各種方法
I can employ various means
維持高度的動力
To maintain a high level of motivation
種植是最能欺騙自己的
Farming is the best way to lie to yourself
因為你可以學習和觀察的東西
Because the things that you can learn and observe
是無窮無盡的
Are unending
通常情況都是種的時間長
It tends to be the case that you spend a lot of time farming
收成的時間短
And a very short period of time harvesting what you have grown
這個是最大的欺騙
This is the greatest trick of all
用最絕對 最低能的尺度去比較
Using the most absolute, most stupid form of metric to make a comparison
我要煩惱賣菜的時間是一個月
I have to worry about selling my produce for a month
但我可以投入在種植的好奇
But the time in which I immerse myself in the wonders of farming
發現和探索裡的時間有兩個月
The period of discovery and exploration is two months
那兩個月我可以完全麻醉自己
In those two months I can completely intoxicate myself
哇 原來是這樣 原來是這樣
Wow, so it's like that… so it's like this...
原來我可以要這樣做 可以這樣做
So I can do things this way, or that way
諸如此類
So on and so forth
周：被人看到絲瓜
Chow: People would see a luffa melon
全都沾上了我滿身的汗
Covered in my sweat
沒有騙人的
That’s not a trick
椰菜遮蓋我的臉
The cauliflower covers my face
不是因為它靠近鏡頭
Not because it’s too close to the camera
而是因為它真的很大
But because it really is quite huge
（麗：要猜猜它有多重？）
(Lai: Should we make a guess as to how heavy it is?)
周：好 大家猜猜它有多重
Chow:Alright, let’s take a guess
遲些公佈答案
We’ll announce the answer a bit later
周：我回過頭來想
Chow: When I think back
原來大部份他（袁易天）教我們的技術
It turns out that a lot of the techniques he was teaching us
其實在2010年在菜園村時都說過
He had already talked about them in 2010 in ChoiYuenTsuen
不過我們當時沒有 個生產者的思維
But back then we didn’t have the mentality of a producer
去把這些不同的方法整合在 起
We couldn’t synthesize these different methods in our minds
後來他再提醒我們這些所有的東西
Later on he would remind us about all of this
而且他給我們重覆的 無間斷的提醒
And he would keep reminding us repeatedly without cease
TV：這兩條也可留 留
TV:You can keep these two as well
周：留待星期日吧
Chow: Keep them for Sunday, then
周：那些內容其實是這兩年逐 填補
Chow:All of these gaps were filled in one by one over the last two years
種豆是怎樣
How do you grow beans
種瓜是怎樣
How do you grow melons
種根塊是怎樣
How do you grow tubers
種薑是怎樣
How do grow ginger
當然未必全部都做得到
Of course we might not be able to grow all of these
但將觀察和互動放回農務裡的首位
But when you observation and interaction at the head of the list of your farming duties
就能被再次點燃
Then your passion can be endlessly renewed
雖然這些問題會不斷跑上來
Although problems might continue to arise
但它不會癱瘓我
But they won't paralyze me
我們曾經都會煩惱拍檔之間的問題
Although we would worry about problems that surfaced between us in the past
但這些都不會令我煩惱
All of these things don’t bother me
一天八個小時一下子就過去了
Every day these eight hours pass before you know it
周：我們盡量將它紅色的部份
Chow: We should do as best we can to get this red part
盡量藏在泥杯裡
Try to get as much of it into the soil as possible
因為它這些地方全都會生根
Because these areas will all bear roots
我們把這部份越藏得多
The more of this we get into the soil
它能展開的根會越多
The more room the roots have to grow
待會我們把這全裝滿泥
Later we will fill the whole thing with soil
周：有什麼事（翻土機）被卡住
Chow: Why is the tilling machine stuck
或陷在某些地方
Why is it caught in place
阿洋，可否回到最邊緣的那邊？
AhYeung, can you go back to the periphery?
我們在那邊從新開始
We can start from the beginning over there
洋：身體力行那種實踐
Yeung:To practice what one preaches
沒有什麼可以替代
Nothing can take the place of that
它不像你看 些自然文學
It's not like reading some natural literature
你了解 些道理就可以滿足
Or grasping some bit of theory, that doesn't satisfy
或者這樣說
Or maybe we can put it like this
如果挖下去我其實內心追求的是什麼
When we really get down to it, what am I actually after
有兩樣東西
There are two things
二是自己傾向學佛法
The first is farming, the second is I am inclined to study Buddhism
但這都不足以讓我理解
But these alone aren't enough to have me understand
世界到底是 回什麼事
What it means for this world to be
我在種植
I am farming
我依賴著什麼去種植
What do I depend upon to farm
亦依賴這植物生長出來能讓我吃
At the same time I am relying on this plant to grow and feed me
我跟它真的有種連結
I really am connected to it
是 個循環
It's a cycle
也是為什麼那麼重要
And this is what it's so significant
建華：我沒有這些層面
Jaspar: I don't have this dimension
耕田的純粹對我來說
For me, the purity and simplicity of farming
並不是說耕田是我唯 的收入
It's not that farming is my only source of income
純粹應該放在什麽位置呢？
Where does the purity and simplicity lie?
我記得是你寫的 篇文章
I remember it was an essay that you wrote
在許煜的書(《你必須改變你的生活》)裡
InYuk Hui’s book (‘You Must ChangeYour Life’)
你寫到維生 但維生不是指收入
You wrote about sustenance and survival, but survival did not refer to making a living 我覺得它的純粹是能餵飽我的肚子
I think that the simplicity of farming is it can feed me
它直截了當解決了我基本需求的話
If it can address this basic need and solve a problem for me
為什麼我說「的話」
Why do I say ‘if’
為什麼我們竟然並不能這樣
Why is it that we cannot do this after all
我經常都要去買菜
I still have to go buy vegetables all the time
我不知道為什麼
I don't know why this is
所以如果收入能讓我付得起租金
So if my income is enough for me to afford the rent
我常常說交租
I always speak about paying the rent
起碼是我能生存
At least I can survive
就是這樣
食能解決 住能解決的話
That’s all, the problems of eating, solved, the problems of rent, solved
那就都解決了
Then with that out of the way
若要做更多的事 就再去想吧
If I want to do more than that later, I can think about it by then
周：我覺得問題不應該混淆
Chow: I think that the questions shouldn’t be mixed up
他有沒有技術和能力
Whether he has the skills or capacity
以及他能不能依賴耕種為生
And whether he can depend on farming to sustain himself
尤其是 我們的情況
Especially since, with our situation
我們其實是很臃腫
We are actually rather ‘bulky’
我們是四個人 不是 個
We are four people, and not just one
除非我們全部人被困住
Unless all of us were trapped…
麗：一個家庭那樣
Lai: Like a family
Jenny：監獄 農場監獄
Jenny: Prison, farming prison
周：我想說在某程度上
Chow: What I want to say is that on a certain level
其實你要不是快餓死
Actually, unless you were on the edge of starvation
到了這些絕境
It takes a desperate situation
你才會想到辦法
For you to come up with a solution
耕田從來沒有呈現過這些絕境給我們
Farming has never forced us into such a situation
因為我們 直有退路
We’ve always had other avenues, an exit plan
所以這很正常
So this is really quite normal
Jenny：什麼很正常？
Jenny: What is normal?
周：我們不會逼自己去爆發潛能（爆seed）
Chow: We won’t force ourselves to go to the limit of our ability
那個爆發是源於我們要靠耕種為生
That forcing would originate from us having to depend on farming to survive
麗：是的 純農務生產
Lai:Yes, relying purely on the production of produce
周：所以我說我們很臃腫
Chow:That is why I said that we are rather bulky
我們是四個人
We are four people
還不是 個家庭裡的四個人
And it’s not like we are four members of the same family
而是四個個體
But four individuals
步伐要怎麼齊呢？
How could we walk in rhythm with one another?
大家的步伐怎樣才能齊呢？
How might we keep apace with one another?
Rita：種植到底是我在照顧它
Rita: In the act of cultivation, am I taking care of it
還是它自己在生長
Or is it growing on its own
我發覺我很少覺得是我讓它們長得好
I seldom think that it's my effort which makes them growing well
因為是整塊田很多搭檔一起做
Because in the fields, a lot of things are working together
施不施肥這些事
To use fertilizer or not
不是因為我見到它就決定給它施肥
It is not that I see the plant and decide to fertilize it
所以它需要什麼可能我也不太清楚
So, what it needs, in the end, maybe I don't entirely know
這個觀察的問題是有待改善
On this problem of observation, I still have room for improvement
洋：大家會分享
Yeung: Everybody would share
我覺得那棵植物好像不太行
I think that this plant isn't doing too well
要立刻施肥
We have to fertilize it immediately
這些是同伴與用伴之間
This is something between one companion and another
你是否感覺到與他 樣的東西
Whether you can sense kinship with her
建華：我的確是關心那些東西比較多
Jaspar: It's true that I'm more concerned about those things
麗：哪些東西？
Lai: Which things?
建華：就是外面的事情
Jaspar:Things that are going on outside
麗：是
Lai:Yes
建華： 直都關心的東西
Jaspar:Things that I have always been concerned about
藝術圈 香港藝術圈 世界藝術圈
Art circles, art circles in Hong Kong, the art scene out there internationally
那些事情我已經放下很多了
I am not as concerned about those as I used to be
但還是對一些當代藝術的政治問題
But, in regards to questions about the politics of contemporary art
我會思考 會去看
I continue to think about these things and to read about them
所以對於種植我要學習什麼
So what do I need to learn about farming?
跟我學習其他知識差不多
It's similar to the learning of other knowledge
大概接收到 些東西
When I come across something
重覆地聽不要緊
It doesn’t matter if I have to hear it repeatedly
慢慢地我覺得那種方法
Slowly I think that this repetition
是會讓我吸收
Will have it sink into my head so I can absorb it
而不是在這刻我要學這東西
It's not that if I want to learn this thing right now
我就要死記硬背
I have to force myself to commit it to memory
但在種植裡是很沒效率
But when it comes to farming this way of doing things is really inefficient
不是 個好的隊友
I'm not a good teammate
變成 下田就問有什麼要做
I go to the field and ask others what I'm supposed to do
只想別人指示我做什麼
I only want others to give me orders
這就好像沒什麼長進
It doesn't feel like I've undergone any growth -
Jenny：我們也想和客人緊扣一些
Jenny: We also want more intimate bonds with customers
我們會在這樣的拉扯裡面
We are caught in this back-and-forth
麗：而這些拉扯源於剛剛你說的
Lai:And this back-and-forth originates in what you spoke about
我們太貪心 我們令自己太忙
We are too greedy, we allow ourselves to get too busy
其實只要你 忙
Actually all it takes is for you to be busy
你不會有空隙跟人輕鬆相處
Being busy means you have no time to chill out with other people
Jenny：好像我和他 一忙起來
Jenny: It's like me and him, once we start to get busy
我們也沒有空間輕鬆相處
We also don't have the time to chill out with one another
還怎能跟客戶相處？
How then would we have the time for our customers?
麗：我會覺得是在營役
Lai: I think we are working our tails off
Jenny：是 Jenny:Yes
麗：但其實這是有點本末倒置
Lai: But in a way, it’s kind of like putting the cart before the horse
營役這個詞中間包含了不自主
We have to work our tails off, that implies that we are not free 以前的不自主是我不能自己生產…
My lack of freedom in the past derived from my inability to produce
我們嘗試做 個自主的人
We are trying to become autonomous and live autonomously
但當我們覺得營役
But when we have to work our tails off
是哪些東西跨越了這自主呢？
What are the things that have outweighed our autonomy?
Jenny：我覺得以前我們不夠信心
Jenny: I think that before we lacked the confidence
到現在還有 點
And even up until today
Jenny：它是 我看了各種資料
It is, Ive looked at various sources
它是屬於 種自動導航
It's a sort of self-piloting system
它會突然自己跑出來
It suddenly emerges on its own
已經形成了自己的系統
It has already become a system unto itself
可能是毫無理由的
There might be no basis behind it
好像上星期…
Just like last week
自律神經
Autonomic nerve
驚恐症
Panic disorder
那種撐會讓我超負荷
To endure that, it's extremely taxing on me
但因為要撐著
But because you have to withstand it
所以 開始生病
So when I started to get ill
倒下之前
Before I collapsed
我跟阿周說 我覺得自己沒有力
I said toAr Chow, I think I don't have any energy left
我不知道怎麼參與農務
I don't know how I'm going to participate in the farming
因為我經常都很累
Because I feel tired constantly
怎麼辦
How can I
然後就倒下了
And then I collapsed
我很累 很累
I am tired, extremely tired
身體上每天都好像動不了一樣
It feels like I can't move my body every day
覺得自己不行了
I can't manage it anymore
是沒有信心 你可以這樣說
I don't have the belief to do so, you can say that
麗：就像以前的東西都是撐出來
Lai: It's like the stuff that came before, they came out of you having to force the issue
我的意思不是說你沒有實力
I don't mean that you didn't put anything into it
但是有一種逞強
But that there was an element of you overstretching yourself
撐出來的氣勢
Forcing something out of yourself
Jenny：是的 絕對是
Jenny:Yes, that's absolutely right
不可否認
There's no denying it
很有趣 我生病這幾年
It's very interesting, in these last few years as I've been ill
有 些自我(ego) 些驕傲(pride)放下了
It's hard to let go of various bits of my ego and my pride
另一方面有些位置變得謙卑一點時
Whereas in other aspects I've become more humble
會變得更敏感 我想做什麼
I've become more sensitive, more aware about what it is that I want to do
我想做kids club
I want to do kids club
她在這裡有其他小朋友的時候
When it is around and there are other children here
我就可以
Then I can...
對我來說 這是我的創造力
To me this is where my creative energy lies
我現在做不到
I can't do that right now
可能我遲些會做到
But maybe later I can
建華：對我來說的確很多事情要做
Kin Wah:To me, it's true that there are a lot of things that need doing
人不夠 能夠撐住的話你就去做
There aren't enough people, if you can bear it on your own then you can go and do it
撐不住的話也沒有辦法
If you can't manage it, then there's nothing that can be done about that
就是這樣的情況
That's how it is
麗：你最近有沒有懷疑人生？
Lai: Have you had any doubts about life recently?
RITA：嗯 我很懷疑種田的人生啊
RITA:Yes, I have a lot of doubts about life in the fields
建華：但誰會停下來？
Kin Wah: But who would stop doing what they're doing?
這已經是這裡很古怪的 個傳統
This has already become a rather peculiar tradition over here
Jenny：因為我們有一種尷尬和複雜
Because we have a sort of awkward complicatedness about us
我們很想努力地做 個專業的農夫
We want to put everything we have into becoming professional farmers
但其實 與此同時
But actually, at the same time
我剛剛也說我們很貪心
I just said that we are overambitious
我們又在思考 些生產意義的問題
We are also pondering over the significance of producing
那些生產意義可能就是文化的生產
That significance might lie in cultural production
就是電影節
That is, film festivals
到了Kids Club
And when it comes to Kids Club
就是教育
It's education
你對比其他的農場是不會這麼複雜
If you compare us with other farms, they wouldn't be as complicated as this
周：當你要為自己的出品定標準時
Chow: When you want to establish standard for your own work
你還是不是在說三道四
Are you simply making frivolous comments
來掩飾我們其實並沒有很勤奮
To cover up the fact that we didn't work as hard as we could have
或者我們根本做不到
Or maybe we were just never capable of doing it
其實沒有什麼魔法
Actually there isn't any kind of magic to speak of 我們也不用反過來污名化
And we don't have to go to the opposite extreme and disaparage it
那些標準的東西是不是有詐
All those standards and stuff, are they fraudulent in the first place
回想起來 我也完全想不到
When I think back, I can't come up with an answer
為什麼我們做這麼久
Why is it that we were doing this for so long
才能得到(acquire)這樣的想法
Before we managed to acquire this way of thinking
或者這樣的心態
Or this kind of mentality
周：原來那種 因為社會運動也好
Chow: It turns out that kind of 周：原來那種 因為社會運動也好
because whether we are speaking about social movements
或者覺得自己耕田
Or my farming
也要耕得和別人有些不 樣
To feel that my farming has to be somewhat different from that of other people
這種想法是很難擺脫的
This way of thinking is very difficult to do away with
我不知道好不好
I don't know whether it's a good thing or not
但我覺得有意地不想要這種心態
But I think that when you are intent on doing away with this mentality
原來差天共地
Turns out, it makes a world of difference
因為你開始擺脫這種東西
Because once you begin to take your leave of these things
我會開始懂得去欣賞
i begin to understand how to appreciate
去讚賞 或者去學習
To admire, and then to learn
甚至模仿別人那種專業的心態
Even to emulate that sort of professionalism
專業的農夫的心態
The professionalism of a full-time farmer
Jenny：因為我說我很討厭 XXX
Jenny: Because I said that I really hate XXX
我怎樣去解決這件事呢 師父
How do I deal with this, master?
他就問我
He then asked me
你為什麼覺得她有問題
Why do you feel as though she is problematic
你覺得她有問題的時候
When you take her as being problematic
你自己有沒有覺得自己有什麼問題？
Do you find that you yourself are problematic in some way?
還有你在想什麼？
And what are you thinking about?
會不會是你自己的問題？
Could it be that the problem lies in you?
有些什麼問題？
What sorts of problems?
會不會是我的傳達不夠好？
Could it be that I'm not communicating myself properly?
麗：可能你過得好 很正常
Lai: Maybe you are living well, it's normal
覺得可以不用理會
You feel that you don't need to pay it any mind
但好像有些因果
But it feels like there are various reasons behind it
有些東西是之後要承受
Various things that you would have to bear afterwards
RITA：我記得我有次很大聲與他說話
RITA: I remember that I once spoke very loudly towards him
建華：可能有的人是很沮喪的
Kin Wah: Maybe some people are feeling very frustrated
麗麗：我也知道有人很沮喪
Lai: I know some people are frustrated
建華：但…
Kin Wah: But
曾：我可以跟別人說我在做 種示範
Chan: I could tell other people that I am doing a sort of demonstration
我就是這樣去做創作
This is the way that I create
我就是這樣去生活
This is the way that i live
我就是這樣去做人
This is how I dwell as a human being
那種堅穩是來自自己做得到
And that kind of steadfastness
才可令人信服 是這樣的關係
Comes from the belief that I can... only convince others if I can do it myself, that's how it is
麗：你會不會覺得這種狀況
Lai: Do you feel that this sort of state
很容易會定了 個很高的目標？
Could very easily lead you to set a very lofty target for yourself?
你有這個目標
If you hold this kind of objective
但我坦白說 你這樣擺出來
But if I can put this frankly, if you lay it on the table in this way
你自己未必做得到
You might not be able to accomplish it yourself
那個矛盾點就是
The contradiction is
你好像成為了 個你不想做的人
You seem to have become somebody that you don't want to be
你定 個好像很宏大
You have established a objective that seems vast
很意義重大的（目標）
And profoundly meaningful
但其實
But in actuality
曾：所以當我投入去發掘 樣東西時
Chan: So when I throw myself headfirst into exploring something
就會忽略了我的夥伴 (partners)
I tend to neglect my partners
令他（她）們不是很理解
And then in the process they don't really understand
我在這個過程中在想什麼
What it is that I'm thinking through it all
所以就 定出現你剛剛提到的感受
So invariably the sentiments that you mentioned will surface
這我完全明白也接受到
I completely understand and accept these
像之前提到
It's like we mentioned before
他們覺得要幫我做善後工作
They feel as though they want to help me with the aftermath of it all
我第 次不是太理解
The first time around I didn't fully understand
他們為什麼會覺得這樣
Why they would think this way
譬如說
Such as...
Matthew：好有趣 因為你說合作
Matthew: It's very interesting, because you were speaking about cooperation
大自然界講求合作的例子其實不多
There aren't a whole lot of examples of cooperation in nature
大自然本身是由競爭去衍生出來
Nature emerges out of competition
有的就進化了
And then there is evolution
例如說飛蛾和蝙蝠
Such as moths and bats
牠們不停的演化
They continue to evolve
蝙蝠演化了聲納出來
Bats have developed bio sonar capacities
飛蛾需要避開牠們的時候
If moths are to evade them
就再演化出 些避開牠們的方式
They have to evolve a means of doing so
有些飛蛾慢慢演化到可以聽到聲音
Some moths have developed a sense of hearing
Matthew：一想會合作的昆蟲
Matthew: Once we come to the subject of cooperating insects
就會想到螞蟻同蜜蜂
We tend to think of ants and bees
牠們是沒自我的
They have no sense of self
我們叫牠們做 個超個體生物 (super organism)
We refer to them collectively as a sort of super organism
想像那隻蟻不是 隻隻蟻
Imagine that ants are not to be taken individually
牠們其實是 整個個體
They are actually one organism
那隻蟻不會去想自己的安全
That ant will not think of its own welfare
我是為了這個社群去生存
Rather the ant exists for the colony
有什麼事我都會誓死保護
If anything arises, the ant will sacrifice itself to protect it
牠們完全是為了延續
Everything they do is in order to endure collectively
這 個群落而生存
They exist for the sake of the colony
不是為了我自己而生存
Rather than for themselves individually
麗：是因為社會環境
Lai: Is it because of the social climate right now
現在不適合做街頭的事？
Now that doing stuff on the street is not feasible?
因為我們有時候都會在選擇
Because sometimes we have to make a choice
我們要出去還是留在田裡
Whether to go out or to stay in the fields
RITA：嗯 在街頭上我純粹是湊人數
RITA:Yes, on the street I am simply here to be among the crowd
在這場運動裡自己還能做什麼
In this struggle, what can I contribute myself
其實我並不太清楚
Actually, I'm not entirely sure
如果我不出去 其實我會做什麼
If I weren't to go out, what would I do
那如果我什麼都不做的話也
And if I weren't to do anything at all, then
麗：但你是否仍然未必會覺得
Lai: But would you not feel, in the end
耕田這種間接的抗爭已經能做到？
That farming, this form of indirect struggle, manages to accomplish that on its own?
它對於外面的世界好像很不直接
It seems to be disconnected from the outside world
但其實
But actually...
RITA：我會覺得這 種背後的支撐 (back up)
RITA: I think that this form of backup behind the scenes
在心靈上或者食物上的支持
This form of support on a spiritual level, or on the level of food and sustenance
是這 種間接的支持
It's a form of indirect support
我也很相信這是重要的
I too believe that it is important
所以有人說想來散散心
So when people say that they would like to come here to unburden themselves and find relief
我也覺得很開心
I too feel very glad to hear it
自己都會有些階段
I too have gone through various stages
猶豫到底出去 還是留在這裡？
Where I have struggled with whether to stay or to go out there
麗：其實不如 心 意
Lai Lai: But actually, wouldn't it be better to devote myself entirely
相信耕田是直接 而不是借口
In the belief that farming is directly
相信耕田是直接 而不是借口 participating in the struggle, and that it is not an escape
RITA：我想知道為什麼你覺得是直接？
RITA: I would like to know why you think it is direct?
麗：其實那種直接就是食物的基本
Lai:Actually the kind of directness I mean has to do with the basic fact of food
食物就是真正能進入一個人
Food truly and materially enters into a person
是維持生命所必需的東西
It is necessary to sustain life
它會影響你的心智和情志
It affects your state of mind and your emotions
然後再怎麼去面對 個世界
And from that point you figure out how to confront the world
它好像相對很退後 (lay back)
Food seems as though it's just in the background, on the margins
但其實它是最基本
But when it comes down to it it's the most fundamental thing
最直接去影響到一個人的東西
It directly affects each and every person
當然你去到運動層面的話
Of course when we situate ourselves on the level of movements
它就好像割裂
Food seems to be entirely divorced from it
不介意是否垃圾（食物）
You don't care whether the food you ingest is trash
總之隨便吃點充饑就可以
You just have to fill your stomach
就可以繼續奮鬥
And then you can keep on fighting
好像物理上說得通
This seems to make sense materially
但我會覺得這不是
But I don't think it does
我所崇尚的
What I aspire towards
種能夠滋養自己的生活
Alife that can nourish and fulfil me
我覺得我寧願做提供食物的那個
I think that I would rather play the role of supplying food
提供好的食物
Supplying good food
或是做真正和這個土地有關的東西
Or doing something that is genuinely related to the earth
可能對很多人來說都會覺得不直接
Maybe for a lot of people they can't see how it's all related
但反過來想
But when I think about it
我怎能夠令自己相信這種才是直接
How can I convince myself that this is a direct form of struggle
這才會推動我去做這件事
Only this will motivate me to do these things
麗：你覺得這些東西都是較軟弱無力？
Lai:You think that these things are weak and ineffectual?
建華：我真是不細緻(subtle)也不抒情的人
Kin Wah: I’m really not a subtle person, I don’t wax lyrical about things
藝術
Art
麗：但很多人說藝術
Lai: But a lot of people say that art
都傾向是宣之於口
It tends to say what it means to say in the open
當然他宣之於口不會改變什麼
Of course simply declaring something doesn’t change anything
你覺得是不是呢？
Do you feel this way?
建華：在錯的場合宣之於口
Kin Wah:To speak one’s mind in the wrong occasion
在藝術裡宣之於口
To bring something out in the open in art
所以當你還以為你在做藝術
When you think that you are doing art
但又將政治的東西宣之於口
But you state something about politics in the open
那就很無聊
Then that is rather pointless
要撼動藝術圈的政治
To shake up the politics of the art world
並不是在話題(topic)上撼動它
And not simply on the level of the topics that it speaks about 當然今時今日
Of course in this day and age
話題上能不能讓你談論
Whether you are allowed to broach certain subjects of conversation
也可以是 回事
That is another matter entirely
那正正是你如何把它放出來
So how do you bring them out
讓你可以觸及它們
So that they became accessible and tangible
會變得越來越重要
This will become more and more important in the future
麗：你當這不是在藝術空間做的東西
Lai:Then you shouldn’t treat this as something that is done in the artistic sphere
這部片不是在藝術空間裡
This film isn’t situated in an artistic space
建華：這部片當初是說生活館十年嘛
Kin Wah: Initially this film was supposed...
... to be about the first ten years of Sangwoodgoon, no?
麗：都相關的
Lai: It’s related to that
建華：可以的
Kin Wah:Alright
生活館都和我有關
Sangwoodgoon has something to do with me
沒有我好像不是太好
It wouldn’t be good if I were absent
好像變得很礙眼
It would be a glaring absence
少了 個人
To be short of one person