CONVERSATIONS ABOUT CREATIVITYAND YOUTHWORK
INTRODUCTION
In 2024, Rochdale’s Local Cultural Education Partnership (Create Rochdale) brought together five local youth workers and five local creative practitioners to take part in a year long professional development programme. The intention was to explore how youth workers from Rochdale Youth Services could collaborate with artists for the benefit of young people across the Borough of Rochdale.
The project became known as the ‘Skill Share’ but in reality, the participants shared much more than their skills. The group met once a month, in half day sessions, facilitated by Liz Postlethwaite. Over the course of the year, the programme became peer led and the group began working together outside of the monthly sessions, delivering activities for young people in a range of settings.
At the end of the year, Rochdale filmmaker Andy Hirst recorded the participants talking to each other about their experiences and learning from the programme. This book contains lightly edited excerpts from the transcripts of those conversations.*
We hope that this publication will inspire other creative practitioners and youth workers to collaborate with each other and young people in Rochdale and beyond.
Diane Higgins, Senior Youth Officer, Rochdale Borough Council Helen Thackray, Creative Partnerships Manager, Your Trust
*The transcripts have been lightly edited for ease of reading. Words have been removed to avoid repetition and words have been added to provide context.
LET’S DO IT “ ”
JACKIE& MARTHA
At the start of the programme, Jackie McCulloch had worked for Rochdale Youth Service for nearly six years. Jackie works with cared for young people and young people on the supportive education programme.
Martha Lyons Haywood grew up in Rochdale Borough and is co-founder of gallery FRANK in Littleborough. Martha’s sculptures and installations have been exhibited internationally.
Their conversation starts with Jackie talking about the creative workshop she facilitated on a beach during a summer residential trip. Together they discuss the value of broadening young people’s perceptions of what art is, stepping out of their own comfort zones and building relationships with young people.
PART 1
JACKIE
“I think the idea came about... after I joined in your session at the Skill Share, where we made an exhibition out of things that we'd found and we had to rip out the bits of paper and turn it into an exhibition. I think that idea (when we were going to Anglesey with young people) translated really well into a beach art project. That was the initial idea... and then meeting up with you... you had loads of creative ideas.”
ANDY
“So, what kind of ideas did you both come up with in that session?”
JACKIE
“Well, there were a few obstacles with the beach, wasn't there? Because you're kind of dealing with a location that's not permanent, so we needed to find ideas where you could interact with the environment and stuff like that.”
MARTHA
“You also had a trip to Ebor Studio and saw some cyanotype, and that was an initiative that you took on. I do know a bit about cyanotype but that was kind of your idea. I really liked that you incorporated that with found objects. And then I really liked talking about temporary sculptures as well. I saw some results of the young people doing the temporary ones.”
JACKIE
“Yeah, so this idea of stopping the sea came... Do you remember? We had a conversation about kind of stopping the sea, about creating something that stopped the sea from washing it away. And obviously that was never going to be a possible task, but the young people took on that challenge of, ‘I'm going to make the sea stop coming and knocking my sculpture’. So, they used rocks, or they used the sand, or... I think one of the young people used themselves at one point, so we had to tell them to get up!” [Laughter].
MARTHA
“A performance piece! And this idea of creating something that later on, when they went back to the beach, it had been washed away, which opened up conversations about how they felt about that and what could they have done to stop it next time.”
JACKIE
“The cyanotype was the only thing that they really kind of took - like physically got to take away. Everything else was very much art that was produced there and then.”
JACKIE
“The cyanotype, you're right, was a result of when I came to the Ebor Studios on the CPD day about sculpting... so we had a go at that. And the results didn't always work. I mean, they're still not professionals in cyanotype, because they still couldn't get it to go right. But it was this idea, that [it] was the only thing that the young people could physically take away. We talked a lot about mark making as well, didn't we? So there was a load of rocks on the beach where the young people created words or pictures or used stuff that was on the beach. There was a lot of charcoal that they found, which was really lucky because I didn't plan for that.”
MARTHA
“Yeah. I liked it. And I think you sent me a... did you send me a photo of some Lego that they found and they ended up making sort of an animation or something?”
JACKIE
“Yeah. This was as a result of a young person that didn't really want to join in. So what we did was, they just allowed them to... They were just digging this massive hole and we were like, ‘Right, that's OK, we've talked about how art is many different things! So you can dig a hole and that can be your art.’ And in it, they found a Lego man as they were digging and they were like, ‘All right, I'm going to create like this stage for them’. And then this Lego man just ended up moving about the beach. When we chatted with the young person afterwards [we] said, ‘Look, we know you didn't particularly want to join in with some of the stuff that we were doing. But actually you produced your own art piece’ and they were like, ‘yeah... I can see that now’. And I think we chatted a lot about how when we speak to young people about art, they often think it is drawing. And actually, that's the kind of response I got from some of the young people when I said, ‘Right, we're going to do a beach art session.’ They said, ‘Oh, are we going to be colouring in with felt tips on the beach?’ And I was like, ‘No, wait and see!’. And I think we talked about this idea that art is so many different things. And we did some games and we did that [activity] where they had to use their bodies to make themselves... into different things. So at one point, we had young people creating themselves into a bunk bed or a wave or a shell. And then you could see it on their faces when they understood that that was art. The cyanotype was art. The sculpting was art. The.. using a stone to draw was art. And I think for me, that was like one of the major, most important outcomes... that they saw that art wasn't just sitting down and drawing, but that it could be loads of different things. And if you speak to some of them now and they'll say, ‘oh, yeah, do you remember that? Oh, we did...’ And I'm like, ‘Yes!’”.
MARTHA
“Yeah, it's about exploring and sort of, yeah, expressing yourself in different ways, isn't it? I liked.. because I didn't know... when you put yourself in that position of teaching, that you also don't know what's going to happen. And that's quite scary. And I felt that was quite scary on the day here, even though I was getting to know you guys and it was all really nice. What I really liked about the workshop that I did with you guys, was when you said (when we scrunched up the paper or destroyed the paper) and you said it was non-violent, because there's no judgment there. You've already destroyed the paper, so you can't get it wrong. It's about communication as well. You and the young people came to the resolution that digging a hole can be art because then you found a Lego man and stuff like that. Yeah, I don't know if you feel like it is scary to teach?”
JACKIE
“Oh, completely. And I was well out of my comfort zone. I think I stressed about it for weeks. And then even on the day of it, I was like, I'm still very stressed. And I think you're right because you have to kind of make yourself vulnerable and open to the fact that anything could happen. And then trying to explain that to the young people, that actually it's all right that it looks like that. It's all right that you've done that. It's all right that it maybe doesn't look like you wanted it to look and you're a bit frustrated. But actually, I didn't know what was going to happen either, particularly...with the cyanotype where we did get it wrong a lot during the session. We got it wrong loads. And then one day the wind blew everything off at one point and we were like... brilliant! And I think learning together with the young people through that... that actually we maybe didn't get it quite right. But look, it still produced something that looks quite cool. Or, it is really windy so what are we going to do? Let's figure out a way of weighing things down with rocks... that actually it's all right if things go wrong. It can still produce something. And I think that's one of the biggest things that I learned... that it didn't look like maybe I set out for it to look. But actually the young people produce something and create something and it gave them the opportunity to do that. So because I wasn't like stressing that it looked wrong and I was like, ‘Right, okay, it's fine.’ I think they equally got to do something creative and see that creative isn't like a straight line.”
MARTHA
“Yeah, that's perfect.”
PART 2
MARTHA
“I've since worked with young people, like a teenager group called Young Lives Matter. And that was quite an interesting experience because they didn't know me in the same way that the youth workers knew me. So that was really scary because ...what I didn't know about teenagers (which I probably should have done from my own personal experiences!) [is that] sometimes when they look bored, they're not bored. I just don't know them yet and stuff like that. So I was (this is a bit gross) but I was really sweating because I was just like, ‘Oh, my gosh, they are so bored’. But actually what I did...was not tell them that they have to concentrate... I just over prepared. I had too much stuff so that if it did look like it was getting into a bit too serious drawing, then I could say, ‘Right now we're going to...now we're going to go into sculpture’. My sort of method of making people feel easy, [was] almost taking them out of their comfort zone and moving them on really fast. So with that youth group, we did do drawing (because that's kind of what they wanted to do) but then at the end of the session I made like these zines, these booklets with them, and that made the drawings more sculptural and then they could tell a story with the drawings they'd done. And it wasn't like the drawing was the finished piece, but it went on and on and on and made something new, like a book. And then it made a sculpture and stuff like that. So I think it's just being over prepared, maybe.”
JACKIE
“And I think at the heart of it, you have to build a relationship and that does take time. And I think you're right about sometimes young people look bored and they're not, they're just... they're out of their comfort zone... young people don't... jump into it with massive enthusiasm [saying] ‘Oh this is really cool!’ They're going, ‘Actually, I'm really nervous and I don't really know what to do’. And that can often come across as them just being quiet or a bit shut down. But in reality, they're probably just processing ‘Right, what am I doing? This isn't what I normally do. Am I allowed to do that?’”
“Yeah, it's that ‘Am I allowed?’”
JACKIE
“Yeah. There's no rule... not no rules, but when you're trying to create something, it's a bit, it is very free, isn't it? And you're allowed to do what you want. And actually for young people, I think that's quite difficult sometimes because they are in a world where they're told what to do a lot. So when they do get in a creative session, it can often look like boredom, but actually it's probably fear or a little bit of nervousness because it’s just brand new.”
MARTHA
MARTHA
“Yeah and sort of accepting that as the teacher, or not teacher, but as the facilitator, that it doesn't matter what your insecurities are, just keeping going and getting them to trust [you]. Yeah, that seems a bit forceful, but kind of getting them to trust you is the most important bit. And I really liked when in one of our sessions...I really liked that Diane said it doesn't matter to the youth service, what we make, it's about the conversation that goes with that. I've taken that on really, especially when working with young people now, hearing what they're saying and listening is way more important than coming up with a final genius art work.”
JACKIE
“I think that's a massive journey to be on because as an artist, it must be like... ‘It's always about this end result.’ Whereas for us, we know we're not going to get... (most of the time) you don't get the end result that you set out to do. But actually you're right, those conversations that you have during it, you find out loads that you can then build on and work with them to find out about their lives. And that's pretty cool. Even if you don't get like a masterpiece at the end of it, but you just get something.”
PART 3
ANDY
“What kind of changes did you see in the young people after the project?”
JACKIE
“So I think with the beach session, it really was seeing young people that expected the art to be one thing... getting involved in another thing. There was four different sessions and four different groups. And you could see that at the beginning, they were all a bit like, ‘Oh, I'm a bit unsure about this.’ but then actually working together and they were producing stuff together. So they were going, ‘Let's go and collect this together. Let's go and collect shells. Let's go and collect this.’ And if anybody wasn't getting involved, they were like, ‘No, come on, let's go and do it. Let's do it!’ And I think that was a massive part of them just working together to create something and just being a bit free. I think they just don't get that [opportunity very often]. And then we've had the event for National Youth Work Week where it was a very creative event. The groups that were on the residential have been part of producing something and have got involved and produced a creative piece [for the event]. And I think without trying some different art stuff, they wouldn't have done that or it might have been hard.”
JACKIE
“My group did the beach art with me and then they produced a video, a creative video with different shots and stuff based on their youth club. But I think because they'd already been involved in some quite creative stuff, it didn't feel so much like a massive kind of, ‘Come on, guys! We're going to do this.’ They were like ‘Yeah, we'll do that.’ and I think that's been really nice, seeing young people... that they've been wanting to do creative stuff. And I think that's because maybe I'm a bit more confident in doing creative stuff with them or they've been involved in more creative stuff because of the Skill Share and because I've enjoyed the creative stuff... it's then fed down, I think, into groups.”
“Yeah, yeah. Because it is about practice, isn't it? And having the confidence to do that.”
JACKIE “Yeah.”
MARTHA
BE A BIT MORE FREE “
TOBI& JASMIN
Alapelode Oluwatobi (Tobi) is a musician, dancer and artist who moved to Rochdale in 2016. He performs under the stage name Micah Stalgic. Tobi had previously facilitated creative writing workshops but had little experience of working with young people, before taking part in the Skills Share programme.
Jasmin has been a youth worker for nearly 15 years and has worked as an area youth worker in many areas in Rochdale. Jasmin is currently a Lead Youth Work Manager at Rochdale Youth Service and manages the Short Breaks youth provision and youth work team in the Rochdale and Pennines townships.
Together they discussed how working with artists can enable young people to express themselves. They also talked about the Skill Share programme providing space and time for professionals to build confidence and overcome their ‘imposter syndrome.’
ANDY
“How did you have to get out of your comfort zone during this programme?”
JASMIN
“You know... nothing goes to plan. So I was a bit nervous [about] doing the [creative] activity [with young people] but it worked for some reason. It wasn't [as] structured [as] what I was imagining in my head - that... it's all going to be regimented. That wasn't there. It was nice and relaxed, at a nice pace for young people. But also for me, art is, it's for expression. It's about having a go. It's about having fun. You know, I learned that, that was nice for me. What about you?”
TOBI
“For me, working as a youth worker or shadowing youth workers, I had to learn so many things. It was an eye opening experience for me. Knowing things about safeguarding, knowing things about putting the young person's best interests at heart, you know, things like that. They're common sense but they're not so common until you learn it. Until you learn it with a youth worker. So it was a very good experience.”
ANDY
“Did you feel like, as an artist, you didn't get to do everything that you wanted to, because young people were here - they were everywhere - a bit?”
TOBI
“I feel like because the young people...they're so full of energy, it's hard to match their energy. It's hard to be at the same pace with them, you know, they're thinking very quick. But also, it was impressive to see how they think. I did a couple [of] creative writing sessions with them and [they wrote] some amazing pieces, honestly. Really, really talented pieces.”
ANDY
“How do you feel when you facilitate art based sessions?”
JASMIN
“It makes us nervous a bit because we're learning and then we're trying out with young people. Are we doing it right? Are we not doing it right? All the skills that they [the artists] brought, they were nice, you know, there wasn't complicated resources. We didn't have to go out and buy any special equipment but it's working with the young people. Talking about their feelings, emotions but having fun with the material, you know, trying different... chalks, paints, different colours, textures, paper, but giving it to the young people and letting them do the kind of talking and things like this.”
JASMIN
“And then they come up with ideas, come and give that a go. And that's been nice, where it's not just been about the activity and it's full stop, it's about young people and your team coming up with more ideas to try, so getting more inspired to do a bit more.”
TOBI
“Honestly, that's true. And the result is fulfilling as well.”
ANDY
“So how do you think the collaboration between the artists and youth workers has benefited the young people?”
JASMIN
“I think for young people, it's not about the youth worker delivering everything. It's a nice experience to work with artists, so them learning from yourselves, having the confidence to ask you questions or get to know more about the different art, you know, be it drama, be it fine arts. They are getting to know more. Because we like to think that we bring everything to the table, but we don't. There's so many skills and experience out there from other professionals including artists.”
TOBI
“I agree with you. I also feel like this collaboration has helped young people to express themselves a bit more, to be a bit more free, to explore different forms of, you know, self-expression.”
JASMIN
“And I think it's been nice that we've been working on a monthly basis because we're getting to know each other. It's not a new relationship, having someone come in for the first time, delivering and going out. We're learning together. We're talking. We are sharing expertise. If it's not our group, how can you make things different for another group? How can you work with different challenges in different settings?Just because one person is in Rochdale, doesn't mean another group in Rochdale are very similar. They're all very different. So it's kind of sharing that knowledge and giving you the confidence that when you are working with them, what to kind of, not to 100% expect something, but, you know, to kind of give you a bit of a flavour of that group so you can adapt.”
TOBI
“Yeah, I agree. Like, a couple of people could tell that it was a bit out of my comfort zone. However, some of the young people they were really keen to participate in the creative writing. So I just had to feed off their energy and, you know, tell other young people, ‘Your friend's doing it. You can do it as well.’ And give them room where they feel free to express themselves and they feel free not to express themselves. You know what I mean? Like, I made it clear to the room that whatever you write, it's okay to share if you want to share. If you don't want to share, it's fine for you to save it. And I feel that that helped a little bit.”
JASMIN
“Yeah that's great and it's understanding young people [are] all at different levels. So even if someone's reluctant and someone doesn't want to participate, as long as they're talking or just writing something down, and then slowly, as they see everyone else participating around them, they naturally get involved. And that's nice because it's not... there's not an expectation that you have to put something down, pen to paper or something like that. It's, you know, being with the group and getting involved in some of those conversations and just joining in. And they all did, didn't they?”
TOBI
“Yeah, they all did. They all participated. The outcome, like I said, was very fulfilling. I still went home with about 20 A4 papers of creative writing from young people. So it's beautiful to see.”
JASMIN
“That's great.”
TOBI
“I can't remember her name. This poem was so good, it felt like an adult wrote it. It was a very good poem. And she'd shown herself twice, so in two different creative [sessions], the Black History Month one and the one at the library. The poems were impeccable. We read it to the group and everyone was like, ‘Wow, but that came out of you, just here, just now.’ That is impressive. Yeah. Young people are very smart, you know. They inspire me, I'm not going to lie.”
JASMIN
“Yeah, definitely. With my groups, I tried something... we did it on a canvas where it's just, instead of the coloured paper, it's coloured pens and just lines. And this is for a young person with SEN needs (who doesn't normally do artwork).”
JASMIN
“For them to create something and to be satisfied with it...That was amazing because, you know, you do lots of things, but they don't like it, but at that time, I don't know what it was about the session, but she was really happy that she was able to take something away. Normally, she just leaves it , you know, after the session. And she took it away. She took it home.”
TOBI
“That's beautiful.”
PART 2
JASMIN
“Sometimes the reluctance to do it [create activities] and create is, ‘Well, I'm not going to be really good at it, so there's no point doing it.’”
TOBI
“That's a big thing, especially when I had my first session with young people. I don't want to overuse the word ‘imposter syndrome’ again. But it felt like, ‘Hmm, these people are not going to like me. They like cool people. They're not going to like me. My accent's not too British. They're not going to like me.’ You know what I mean? But I get in there anyway and do it anyway. And I feel like it's the same thing with everything in life, like no one's scoring you for how good you're doing it. There's no evil scoreboard. Just do it.”
JASMIN
“Yeah.”
TOBI
“That's what I feel.”
JASMIN
“I felt something similar when we first started. For me, not knowing how to draw. Yeah. That's not 100% true because I got my GCSE. Okay. But that was a long time ago. So me starting again, I was like, ‘I don't know what I'm doing. I've lost those skills. Am I going to be good enough? What’s Martha bringing to the table, what’s Chris bringing to the table? Is it going to meet their expectations?’ So I did it. I put my all into it. But then you swapped the paper around...It became about us. I remember that feeling. And that was really kind of nice.”
TOBI
“Yeah.”
JASMIN
“It was a bit frightening as well because I've just put a lot of effort in. But I'm learning to... It's not about me. It's about the participation. It's about the trying. It's about the collective.”
TOBI
“Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.”
ANDY
“How has this programme changed your approach to your own creativity?”
JASMIN
“Believe it or not, I've just been to Vienna... I went to art galleries and every time, in the galleries, I was like, ‘Oh, that's something that Martha would do. That's something that Chris would do. Oh my God, that... I could do with young people.’ So my perception has changed and I'm like believing that I can bring these forms of art to the table. And it's not about me facilitating the art session. It could be...working with textiles. It could be a print or it could be photography. It's now having those contacts and those links... that we’re able to bring those opportunities. So instead of, ‘Oh... I can't do it.’ It's not about me doing it. I've got you guys.”
TOBI
“That's very cool. The fact that you can travel abroad, experience art and instantly just think of young people. Yeah. Young people can do that. That's very cool. I'd say how this programme has influenced my approach to creativity would be that I have learnt to make my creative practice easy to understand by anyone. My mentor would say, ‘Explain this to me like I was a five-year-old.’ I've learned to be able to make my craft in such a way that I can present it the same way to Year Six people and present it the same way to PhD [students] and everybody would get the same impact from it. That is what I've learned. That is what I'm trying to fit into my art. So that the creative writing session we had this morning would be the exact same thing I'll deliver to Year Sixes and everyone would get the same value from it.”
JASMIN
“Fantastic. That's what I'm learning. Yeah. That's youth work there....It's about how you're doing it and it's making it equal. For us, what we do in youth work, a group in Heywood would be no different to a group in Pennines. You just understand your audience a bit better and you just make it work. So you don't take away from them. You just give them the same opportunities.”
THAT’S WHERE THE FUN IS
GAVIN& UZMA
Gavin Parry is a photographer and professional coach who lives near Rochdale. He has spent many years working in Art School Higher Education.
Uzma has been a youth worker for over twenty years, working for various local authorities and a charity. Uzma has a strong focus on young people’s mental health and wellbeing and has delivered cohesion projects with young people from all backgrounds and cultures.
Together they discussed how to engage boys who initially appear disengaged and developing young people’s confidence and agency through youth led creative projects. During the conversation they developed an idea for a future zine making project.
PART 1
UZMA
“..they just tend to come to have access to the PlayStation and the pool table, and it's really difficult to get them engaged, unless it's something that interests them.”
GAVIN
“But for me, my challenge would be then, if we are going to do something like generate a fanzine about the experience of young people, how to actually get the young men and the boys involved.”
UZMA
“There are a few that would get involved, but I think, it's an open session...so some might dip in and dip out, but I think the attention span for the males is less than the girls. At that age.”
GAVIN
“Yeah, because they'll get bored very easily.”
UZMA
“And we've gone to events where they've said, ‘We're bored now’ and then as soon as they've said it, because the females know that they're going, they're like, ‘Yeah, we want to go too.’ So I think there is some young males that would get involved, but it's just finding them. I think it's just like small steps. And I think the more we do, the more the interest will be there and it'll draw them in.”
GAVIN
“Yeah, I feel that's right. Because I felt I really, I loved the enthusiasm actually, there was a real energy. And it always kind of goes to the edge of chaos.”
UZMA
“Yeah.”
GAVIN
“Just, you know, quiet chaos with a small c, but it's lovely, it's a really good energy that the young people bring.”
UZMA
“I thought it was really lovely. And I'd noticed one of the young males that actually sat there. I didn't think that he would get involved, but it was really beautiful to see that he actually sat there and started doing something.”
GAVIN “Great.”
UZMA
“Because initially he just sat behind the desk, just having a bit of a ramble, really. And just talking about - just things, just the ordinary, that he just took out of thin air... So it was really nice for him to actually manoeuvre himself away from there, to go and sit with your group and start engaging. So I thought that was really positive. So I'm quite observant in that sense. So I'll pick things up. But yeah, that was really positive for me. And I did note it down on the session recording.”
GAVIN “Brilliant.”
UZMA
“Because for me, that was a starting point for him. And we have other young males like that, that come in. We've got one at the moment that's not in school, he's not accessing any education and his self-esteem is quite low. But when he comes in, we kind of give him that bit of empowerment, we kind of recognize him by his name. So I think that's really positive as well. And I think he could be drawn in, depending on what the offer is. So yeah, just to see a few changes there. I mean, they’re small steps for them, but they probably don't see that. But for me, it's quite huge. And I think it's just interesting as well, because in the past, what we've done with art, there's no one kind of leading. Or they wanna do something, so you give them resources, but there's no kind of like starting point and a finishing point. So I think this will be really positive because they can see like the end, they can see how they worked to get from A to Z.”
GAVIN
“And I think that's quite empowering for them because most of the time when we talk about art, they talk about school, it's old school. I can't draw and I can't do this. My teacher said this... So it's quite negative based on feedback from schools and teachers. It's quite heartbreaking to see that. And then when you kind of start exploring art with them and say, ‘Well, actually there's more to art.’ So we've had conversations around music, around poetry, photography... that's all art.”
UZMA
“Yeah, and it's an eye opener.”
GAVIN
“I think for me, they were quite nice easy wins because it's really with... a little bit of fun and a tiny little bit of structure and a little bit of encouragement, people get over that hurdle of ‘I can't draw’ because that always feels, it's almost like a staple, isn't it? It's like, that's it. I've been told or I feel or I sense I can't draw. And as soon as you can, if you get the right fun exercise within 30 seconds they, despite themselves or without their knowledge, it seems they're just in and they're producing really exciting stuff.”
UZMA
‘Yeah, it's true.’
GAVIN
“So I think in relation to providing a lightly held structure with a clear objective like a fanzine at the end, which evolves organically through the sessions... I'm really up for it actually. I'm really excited about it. So tell me what would your objectives be for that fanzine?”
UZMA
“I think it would be like in terms of capturing young people's voices.”
GAVIN
“Voices, yeah.”
UZMA
“For me, I think that's important. And I think setting themselves like small goals as well, like what they would like to achieve. So it's very similar to when we started off bringing a little bit of art into the session, we used Chris's activity, you know, where you cut the shapes and then you pass it along. And then at the end, I asked them, I said ‘What do you think you've achieved?’ And they were a bit taken back, saying ‘We don't know’ and I was like, ‘This is art’. They were like, ‘No’ and I said ‘Yeah’. And I said ‘Look, this is a collaboration as well’. And then I said, ‘Which ones kind of stand out to you and why?’. And I think they kind of really got something out of it that day, and they felt really good that they'd done something that was positive. So I said, you can take it away, you know. And then that was when it was a bit of a challenge because they were like, ‘That looks good, I'm taking that one.’ or ‘That's not that good, I'm not taking that.’ ‘You can have that’. So I think, yeah, it's about capturing that youth voice. It's about capturing their feelings. But it's also about them setting individual goals. Because sometimes when we set goals, they might not be what young people kind of want to achieve. And they might not be, I don't know, easy goals to kind of achieve as well. Sometimes we have high expectations. I would say maybe at the beginning, they just kind of identify what they want to achieve from that. You know, as they go along, it changes.”
GAVIN
“Yeah, I can see.”
UZMA
“So we have that flexibility. I think we need some sort of direction in terms of what we want to achieve. But then obviously make sure we have that flexibility to adapt it based on what young people feel, where it needs to go. It's good to have our own objectives but to start off with a blank canvas and just say, ‘This is where we're going. We're thinking of this. What are your thoughts?’ And then kind of letting young people kind of lead on that. And then if they go off track, bring them back on and say, ‘You know, this is what you've identified as an objective’. I think that's more important because for me, it's about... giving them that platform to kind of say, this is what I want.”
UZMA
“What I find is when they come into a youth provision, they tend to talk about like, you know, rules and regulations. But I think with youth work and, you know, art, it's more about having that flexibility...to kind of like doodle, to write things which may not be acceptable in school, actually kind of explore that further. And I think that's the beauty of what youth work is.”
GAVIN
“But I actually think that's also the beauty of connecting artists with youth workers, because the overlap is really strong. And the skill set that you bring... I found it incredibly valuable.”
UZMA
“And I think an artist...the creative toolkit that an artist brings... is really strong. I think youth workers and artists are very creative. In their own way. And creativity is a really strong connection between us, which I'd never really thought of. And that was never as clear as it is to me now, you know, at the beginning of this, of this skill share.”
GAVIN
“No, I think personally with the artists, it's that emotional connection because you're kind of thinking about things, then you start kind of exploring yourself and reflecting. Sometimes it's just taking what's inside and putting it on a [piece of] paper or capturing it, you know, in a photograph...and we don't tend to think about it because we're living in a fast environment, a fast paced environment that we don't have time to reflect. But I think when you've got moments like those to capture, yeah, it's amazing what kind of stems from that. You know, one piece of work, like a drawing or I don't know, a dot even, you know.”
UZMA
“No, I do. And I think actually it’s also having the luxury of it not being in a school setting or any kind of formalised educational setting. It gives that space, which I think is really, really powerful and needed. And that's what youth work’s about... that voluntary participation of young people. So it's not forced on young people. They choose to come in. They choose to take part, which I think is really amazing in terms of no one's asking you to come here, you know, from eight thirty in the morning till three o'clock in the afternoon to learn about Maths, English. You come, this is what we've got on offer. It's your choice.”
GAVIN
“Yeah.”
UZMA
“So it's giving that opportunity to young people based on what they want to do.”
GAVIN
“I think in the spirit of that, when we do this session... as we sort of thrash it out...to ensure that is celebrated and that we hold that space so it can be, you know, very self-selecting. There may be one or two people that do it for the six sessions and... some people might just come in for one session or ten minutes for each session. But it doesn't matter because...our job would be to capture all of that and to then shape that into something which is. Which is the voice of the youth.”
UZMA
“Yeah. So, yeah, that's exactly what I was kind of saying in terms of objectives. So...we could set the objectives, but the objectives will change based on who takes part.”
GAVIN
“Yeah.”
UZMA
“You know what their own personal... objectives are. What they want out of it, really. So it's going to be different every week.”
GAVIN
“For me... that captures the sort of exciting spirit of creativity. I mean, there's energy being put in, there's questions and people are curious. People are curious, exploring ideas and always being...always surprising you and surprising themselves.”
UZMA
“Definitely.”
GAVIN
“So that's yeah...that's where the fun is. That's where the fun is. Let's face it.”
PART 2
GAVIN
“I think, rather than actually trying to distract people who are busy playing sport and really enjoying it and pulling them out and getting them a little bit. It's better just to have this sort of self selecting table... which if they're interested, they'll come to it and they select themselves and they'll just get involved like that. And there's no effort. We're not coercing them in any which way. It just feels more natural. It feels more natural, feels more elegant, feels less manipulative. It feels much more in the spirit of of youth work. So we will do that.”
UZMA
“Definitely. Yeah. And you know, as I'm talking... in my head...I've got images... ‘Oh, it could be like this and like this.’ But as those thoughts are coming up, I'm also knowing it probably won't be. And that's all right.”
GAVIN
“Are those those objectives creeping in now?”
UZMA
“Yeah! Yeah. You know, it's kind of it's hardwired, isn't it? Kind of what are we doing? Why are we doing it? Where are we going?”
GAVIN
“And that's OK. But that needs to be really quiet in the background.”
UZMA
“I think when we set them as well, we do kind of put, you know.. incorporate, that these could change based on, you know, young people's participation and feedback and direction.”
GAVIN
“It's almost like the natural disclaimer, isn't it? Yeah. Like everything is up for grabs at all times in all ways.”
UZMA
“This can change.”
GAVIN
“To be honest, I mean, I wouldn't want any other way, actually. I mean, I think I'd get quite bored, quite quickly if I knew exactly what was happening and why we were doing it and where it was going.”
UZMA
“Yeah. Sometimes it's good just to kind of like...I always say it's kind of like pushing them into the unknown and then staying behind, but letting them kind of make their own way.”
GAVIN
“Yeah.”
UZMA
“Yeah. But just being there in the background, making sure that they're OK and then see where they take us.”
GAVIN
“I agree. I think it is a role of quiet facilitation, isn't it?”
UZMA
“Yeah, quite, you know, in the background - there if they need you...and if you're not needed, go with it.”
GAVIN
“Yeah. Off you go.”
PART 3
UZMA
“I mean, I know lots of young people that I've worked with and they've never been good at... well, according to teachers... they were never good at art in school. But now when I see them, I mean, I knew a young female who basically didn't even pass art, even though she picked it, she was really interested. And now she's got her own bakery. So she does cake decorating and intricate details on those cakes... These cartoon ones. And I'm like, ’wow, these are amazing’. But... when I think back and look at how she was in terms of her self-esteem and confidence at that secondary school and now look at this amazing, you know, young female that's kind of evolved and got her own business and, you know, she does some amazing things. It just shows that maybe if she'd had that support, maybe she wouldn’t be, you know, ‘bad at art’, as she was told.”
“But then the youth workers, that's what youth clubs do, you know, that's what you did for her. You supported her in that way.”
UZMA
“So, yeah, we used to allow her to kind of bake, you know, starting from scratch, because that's what she was interested in at the time. But now to see her and how much she's kind of grown. And she always says that basically, she tells her daughter that you can do anything you want to achieve. Don't pay too much attention to what everyone's telling you. Find your own feet. So it's quite empowering that it's kind of like, trickled down to her now, kind of supporting her daughter and encouraging her and motivating her.”
GAVIN
“I mean, in some ways, it's such a simple message, you know, for those that have had the opportunity to have that message of support. But for people that haven't got that in their lives, it's just water in the desert, isn't it? It's just so valuable.”
GAVIN
UZMA
“And it's amazing that you didn't, we didn't see that, but it's like when you throw a pebble into the water and the ripple effect. So you might not see the changes in the young person or that growth. But eventually it'll come through. So yeah, that's so empowering to kind of see and kind of, I don't know, watch young people's journeys, you know, where they've started from and kind of where they've gone.”
GAVIN
“Yeah, that's good. It's powerful.”
UZMA
“And I think that's what this, these sessions are going to be about. It's about capturing that as well, as we go through.”
GAVIN
“Well, I did. I mean, like when I did that session with you last week with the young people...that potential and that energy was really felt in the room, you know. And like I said, I like the chaos, the quietly held chaos was actually really invigorating. I really enjoyed it.”
UZMA
“I think that’s part of youth work.”
GAVIN
“And that's why I also, you know, back to that sort of synergy or... that connection between youth work and creatives. I mean, artists, yeah, I think it can be...I'm excited about the possibilities and the potential that it feels there is.”
UZMA
“Yeah, I think the beauty of it, is that spark between the two and kind of igniting something.”
GAVIN “Yeah”.
UZMA
“And then you kind of see where it takes you... So I think that's what I'm excited about. And it's really good because we did the mural previously and young people are like, ‘Oh, we did that. We did that.’ And even though it was just like their ideas and someone's created that, it was just the fact that they've had some input in it. It's really powerful kind of seeing young people feel proud and feel really confident that their kind of voice has been taken on board. And there's something there that kind of signifies their involvement and participation.”
GAVIN
“No, I can see that.”
“BOUNCING OFF EACH OTHER”
CHRIS& DIANE
Chris Rainham has been a practicing artist for 30 years exhibiting and selling paintings internationally. He lived in Rochdale for over 20 years and has worked as an artist facilitator in schools across Rochdale, Lancashire and beyond.
Diane Higgins has worked at Rochdale Youth Service since 2008 and is now Senior Youth Officer at Rochdale Borough Council. Diane was first introduced to the value of embedding arts and culture in youth work, whilst studying Youth Work at University.
Diane and Chris discussed what it’s like to work in a youth setting compared to formal education settings and they reflected on the value of professionals being willing to collaborate with each other and with young people.
ANDY
“So how did you feel coming into the Skill Share, about doing face-to-face engagement with young people? Was there any worries there?”
CHRIS
“No, not really, because I've been in education, delivered stuff right across the educational environment for quite a long time. So that wasn't a worry, wasn't something I was frightened of doing. I feel quite comfortable doing that. Yeah. I think for me it was because it wasn't in formal education, that was the difference. But I think that's a really positive thing, particularly when you're doing creative activities.”
DIANE
“Did you think it'd be different? Obviously, you'd come from working in a school environment.”
CHRIS
“Yeah, I didn't realise how different it would be. It's the fact that you use these things for conversation, so the art itself isn't the means to an end, it's a means to something else, which I think does change the atmosphere. Yeah. The hardest thing, I think, delivering creative stuff to people... is whether they want to do it or not. And so the big advantage in the youth work is that most of the people there do want to do it. They're not forced to do it, so they do it by choice.”
DIANE
“I think it's interesting that you said there was that idea that we use art for conversation, because that's quite perceptive that you've picked up on that.”
CHRIS
“That's been the most interesting thing for me in the whole programme... and the fact that so often those conversations can't be had. Like we've talked about them being part of a sport activity or any sort of activity, but that's a vehicle then to talk to people rather than... in school you'll have the target to hit, you'll have, ‘The kids have got to achieve something in the work they're doing.’ Whereas when we're making things or doing some sort of creative activity in the youth work, it's about something else.”
DIANE
“Yeah and that's really good, because I think that was one of the reasons of wanting to have the Skill Share. So people...creative practitioners seeing that end result, it's not as important.”
CHRIS “No.”
DIANE
“It's nice to have something, and young people need to have an end point, but it really is just about what you can get young people doing while they're being creative.”
“Yeah, I think when people are making things, they always want something to take away, don't they? But I worked with Creative Partnerships for a while, and their ethos in schools was, it's process, not product, but it was really hard to get the schools on board on that. So I think the fact that, that could sort of be built into the things that creatives do in the Skill Share, in the youth work, is really good. And I think it's difficult, isn't it, because I never want to teach Grandma to suck eggs, because you do lots of creative stuff anyway. And I think that was probably something in the programme that I had concerns about, were my skills worthy of sort of sharing?”
DIANE
“Yeah, and it is interesting, because I think my experience sometimes of working with artists has always been, that you can learn, you know, that you get tips. So when I first started youth work, it was like working with artists, was like, ‘Oh, I could do that.’ And that's not kind of taking away from what the artists are doing, just that if you develop that confidence, you can. And that's the point of the sharing of the skills, isn’t it?”
“It was, yeah. I think that worked really well. And particularly the fact that all the creatives were from different sort of specialisms, different disciplines. So, you know, there was as many things that I learnt from them as I could share. I always think, especially with painting and drawing [classes], people think, you know, ‘Well, what am I paying to learn?’ sort of thing. But there are all sorts of stuff. There's all sorts of approaches you can learn.’
CHRIS
CHRIS
DIANE
“Yeah. How did you find collaborating with the youth workers and kind of trying to...you know, give the best to the young people?”
CHRIS
“I thought they went really naturally, didn't they? I don't know whether that was the group. That was interesting, sort of talking about having another cohort and working with other people. I thought the [artists and youth workers] really, really came together. I don't know whether it seemed to happen very naturally.... I think there was like a real willingness for people to want to learn. Everybody was like sponges, if you like. Yeah. And really kind of wanted to take them opportunities.”
DIANE
“And I think getting... you kind of involved in different youth groups, there was a lot more conversation than would have happened previously.”
CHRIS
“Yeah. Nobody was sort of reticent about joining in [with] whatever we've done in any of the sessions. And it's just a win-win every time.”
PART 2
DIANE
“Yeah. Did you, as an artist, did you have to make any adjustments? Because I know you've worked with the education groups... but, you know, were there any specific adjustments that you had to make during the sessions?”
CHRIS
“Yeah. I think what was really good, is that I was just invited to go along without the idea that I would be delivering anything. Because there was quite a small group of kids that were trying to transition from primary school to senior school and had problems with that, wasn't it? So it was quite a nice little group and initially I went without the idea that I would deliver something. I think the thing for me that was really good, was that it wasn't like you talk about chalk and talk when teaching. None of that was there. We were all sat down. It was very conversational. It was very relaxed and they were keen to do something. So I suppose it was less formal, [that was the thing] that I had to think about.”
DIANE
“Yeah. And you seemed to adjust to that quite well, I think, didn't you?”
CHRIS
“Yeah. It was really good. I really enjoyed it. I'd like to do it again.”
DIANE
“Did you have any issues, working in the youth centres where there can be lots going on at once?”
CHRIS
“Yeah, we did. I mean, there's always other stuff going on, isn't there? And I think luckily for me, when I was working in primary schools, it was very similar. You turn up and there'll be all sorts of other stuff going on. So if there's sort of sporting activities going on, it might take time for people to come in. But what I've done, and then when I've done drop ins like that, you just get set up, you start doing, and people are drawn to it, aren't they? And if they want, I never want to force anybody to do anything anyway. So it was good that people just came, as and when they wanted to do anything. And then you haven't got that, ‘Oh, you've got to do this, you've got to complete that’. And that's easy to do, isn't it?’”
DIANE
“Yeah. Well, it's not!” [LAUGHTER]
CHRIS “No!”
DIANE
“And I think that, is part of wanting to have this collaboration. Because I think sometimes some creative practitioners, particularly that have worked in formal settings, really struggle with that. You know, that you can get young people that will come for a couple of minutes and then they might go, or you know, and they're kind of up and down and there's lots of distractions.”
CHRIS
“Yeah, they are quite like that.”
DIANE
“...having creative practitioners come in with a really open mind has been, I think, I think it really encouraged young people to get involved. I mean, we've not done loads of creative writing before. So, you know, having, ...one of the practitioners come and just kind of do that and young people really take to it. But I think that's been more about just that kind of approach. Another example was... so the work that you did... the Manga....it's quite specific, you know, young people had wanted to do Manga art so they all came and really engaged in it. They’ve created their own characters...in a...relatively short space of time as well.”
DIANE
“Yeah.”
CHRIS
“Yeah, it was over two sessions, wasn't it?”
CHRIS
“Yeah, no, it was really good. And I think the importance of that, the reason it worked is that, that was what they wanted to do. I mean, it's not my specialism, but it's something that I do and it's something I did before.”
DIANE
“That's interesting as well, because a lot of times you will have, [you] will kind of do art, you know, use art as a method for talking about a particular issue. We always wanted it to be that young people have asked for it. And that was really nice that young people had been quite specific about what they wanted and then to just kind of link up with you to, I suppose, to deliver that.”
CHRIS
“Yeah and then we went on from that, didn't we? Because I'd sort of built a scheme where I'd do an eight week session with kids over an hour or so. And there's lots of sort of formal drawing skills in it. And we did a landscape thing, didn't we? Same group. And that was really good. They really went along with that. And I thought at the time, ‘oh, this might be too prescriptive’ and because it's sort of like following me designing a landscape, but then they can populate it with all the other things that they want to put in it. And they really went with that.”
DIANE
“Yeah. I think another good example has been that I think we've talked about the collaboration between artists and youth workers, but between the artists as well. Yeah. You know, when we did an event in November, there was two of the artists that planned very separate workshops, but then linked them.”
CHRIS
“Yeah.”
DIANE
“So one artist was doing a visual drawing piece and one artist was doing creative writing. But what had been planned in the visual [workshop] had a direct link [to the writing]. So they were running between each other, saying, ‘right, this is what this group have come up with’. So then when they went into the room, it was just kind of linking different things. Bouncing off each other. But people could also feel that it was linked.”
CHRIS
“So do you think...that influenced people? Whether or not they would engage with it because they'd enjoyed... the writing. So ‘That's really good but I can do the visual art connected too.’ Maybe?”
DIANE
“Yeah, I don't think it was even that kind of thought through. I think it was just really nice to have different workshops and [explore] how can we link them? You know, because creative writing can be linked to visual art. Yeah. It just worked really well.”
IT’S THEIR SPACE
MARTINA& PAULA
Martina Coggins is Director of Rochdale-based Tracing Steps Theatre and Dance Company. She has years of experience faciliating workshops for a wide range of people in a variety of settings.
Paula is an Epilepsy Youth Worker, working for the NHS in Oldham and Rochdale Children’s Community Nursing team.
Martina and Paula talked about creating spaces where young people can develop confidence to participate and using movement to overcome language barriers. They also discussed the new ideas and connections they’ve gained from the programme.
PAULA
“I think doing this Skill Share session gave me more confidence to plan art sessions. I was always quite creative. I think as a youth worker, you need to be creative, not just in an art way, but in how to engage young people and how to kind of approach different things. Because again, young people might want to try art, somebody else might not be interested, somebody else might want to dance or write a poem. But yeah, you've got to be creative I think to engage a group of young people in the first place. As I said, I did have some creativity, but it gave me the confidence, I think to do more kind of tasks or more kind of activities that we could use with young people, like some of the dance games that we used.”
MARTINA
“Yeah, like the icebreakers. I think that's why I go in with a lot of drama games as well, just to kind of break the ice with them. Introduce them to me, that it's nonthreatening. Because I think they think, ‘Oh, there's a dancer coming in, what are they going to do and what are they going to make me do?’”
PAULA
“That's the thing, isn't it? I think icebreakers, at first some young people are like, ‘Oh God, we're not doing that, are we?’ And I think it does put them off... and scare them bit, a little bit, like I think dance would, for some young people. But I think then they watch and they see that other people are doing it. And then it becomes easier for them, I think. But initially, I think it's hard for everybody because it's the unknown, isn't it? Once you've watched it and you see what's going on, then you feel more confident, confident to join in, I suppose.”
MARTINA
“Yeah, but I think what was good, was when I did the event at Riverside and all the youth workers were really on it and involved them. Because they were, willing to put themselves out there and be a bit silly, everyone else was like, actually, it's not that bad then.”
PAULA
“Yeah, I think that's the difference between a youth worker and something that you would do in a school. I've worked in schools and I think you see the teachers at the back watching and observing people, whereas youth workers are up for leading it or doing it, or at least putting yourself out there in the similar way. You shouldn’t expect a young person to do something you wouldn’t do yourself.”
MARTINA
“You've got to be able to do it yourself, exactly, yeah.”
PAULA
“I think you always see somebody hanging around the back of things like that. And I think sometimes just going over and standing next to them and giving them a few words of encouragement, or just making it a lower level. If you don't want to do that, why don't you try this? So if others are dancing, you might say, well, why don't you clap?’ And then you'll find they do that and they feel comfortable. It's like smaller steps sometimes.”
MARTINA
“Yeah, there was one of the games that we did at that project, because they were coming in on a rotation, you could see some of them thinking, ‘Oh, what are they doing over there?’ And the unknown of what they’re gonna be made to do. Because there was little areas that they could sit, there was a few that straight away just went and took themselves off...so I was just like, ‘It’s ok if you want to do that, but could you do this?’ And then because I've involved them in a way, but that's non-threatening, they felt it was okay. I think sometimes it's knowing what you're gonna be expected to do. Because sometimes you start thinking, I might sit there and the next minute I'm gonna have to be doing this, but you say, ‘We're gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, but if you're not comfortable with that, then you stay.’ That kind of thing. I think that definitely helps.”
PART 2
MARTINA
“[There was] the young lad that wasn't really joining in anything, and then he did start joining in at the end. When we had to repeat it and repeat it and repeat it, and then he joined in. Yeah, he wanted to do something else, and he wanted to play games. And there was a language barrier as well, wasn't there?”
PAULA
“Yeah, he struggled communicating with us so I think, like I say, we just continued showing him. We kept demonstrating it.”
MARTINA
“Yeah, and making it easy and just doing it again at his level and then I think eventually he did smile and he did enjoy it, and he was really good. At first we had to do it for him and suggest things, and he repeated that, but by the end, he was doing his own words, wasn't he?”
MARTINA
“He was thinking of his own creative things. So yeah, I think it's just feeling comfortable, isn't it? And providing a safe space, nobody laughing, nobody kind of making people feel awkward about it, and if everybody's doing it, it makes it easier, doesn't it?”
PAULA
“That's that thing, isn't it? Of meeting them at their level. So we had to bring it down to where he was able to communicate and join in.”
PART 3
ANDY
“What do you feel you've gotten from this programme?”
MARTINA
“For me, definitely new connections, because since COVID, everything, all the people that we knew, and loads of people left during COVID, so for me, it's been great to meet new artists, as well as faces in the youth service, because I was mainly [in] Manchester... so it's nice to have some local ones.”
PAULA
“Yeah, I think for me, it's about just refreshing your ideas of how to approach and how to be creative and how to kind of, to get that informal education across to young people in a way that is still fun, is still engaging, it's not just sitting around with a flip chart and a pen and paper, or it's not kind of going through a training program or just talking. It's a way that, you know, a different approach, I suppose, for different young people, whether it might be dance, whether it be writing, creating a poem, and again, I think it just gives you that confidence, because you've worked with artists to have those skills that actually, you are doing the right thing, or it just gives you that confidence or just the new ideas, I suppose.”
MARTINA
‘Yeah, I've even just looked at the other artists, how they'd expand their activity. Sometimes you think, like the little piece that Martha did, would be like a 5, 10 minute [activity] with most children, they could be like, ‘Oh, I've done it’. Whereas the ways she expanded it and made it into a longer project, I found that really interesting as well.”
ANDY
“So Martina, in your creative practice, has it given you any new perspectives?”
MARTINA
“I think it's remembering that when I'm coming in, it's their space, it's not my space. So it's, you know, like I went into that one in Milnrow, and they were like, well, flying around, and it's like, okay, well, I'll join in that for a little bit, and then when you're not scared of me, then we'll move on. And yeah, it's remembering it's their space, and it's what they want to do, not me coming in and teaching them a session.”
PAULA
“Yeah, the youth service is obviously voluntary, and you don't turn up for a specific thing. It could be that you've turned up just because you want to see your mate or because it's a warm space. Or, it's a safe space. Yeah, not because you want to do an art project or a dance project, or not because necessarily you even want to talk to the youth worker. And I think that comes with time, and it's their time and their agenda, really. And it's letting them take those steps. You can coach it along the way a bit, but by just being warm, being friendly, being, leaving them to kind of come to you... because the same approach doesn’t work for everybody, does it?”
MARTINA
“Yeah, because they said, ‘Oh, we're not doing dance’. I was like, ‘All right, then, okay’. So I sat down, I started talking to a few, and they were on the phones listening to music, and then we started doing some games, and I was like, ‘What kind of thing would you like to do?’ Because it was summer, they just wanted to mess about, and then we did some relays and different things, and then I started doing some creative activities, and I was like...‘You're dancing!?’ And then I was like, ‘Got ya!’. So yeah, it's just... working at their pace.”
LIZ
Liz Postlethwaite is a participatory artist and facilitator based in Greater Manchester. Liz is also Director of Small Things Creative Projects, a fellow of the Winston Churchill Memorial Trust and the RSA, and a Certified Permaculture Educator.
‘I am interested in the way that art and creative process can create new ways of doing things, and help us envisage alternative futures.’
Liz was the facilitator on the Skills Share programme in Rochdale, 2024.
‘‘I think it was quite interesting even before we got the group together…. there was an underlying aspiration of wanting to do something but maybe we weren't quite sure how it would be... or what structure the sessions might take or even how the course of the year might look and feel.
We really thought it was important that the group should lead their own learning and make the decisions about how the year became, or how we learned together over that period of time. So at the beginning we did have a provisional plan, and interestingly some of it's happened and some of it hasn't happened and that’s actually fine!
I suppose there's always that kind of trepidation as well when a group of people come together - what will the energy be and what will the dynamic of those people be as well?
I think between the youth workers and the artists, they were almost a mirror image of what each other was trepidatious about. I think the artists were nervous about a lack of experience or understanding about youth work and how to work with young people, and I think the youth workers were almost the same but in the other direction - so they had this confidence of work with young people (and they were already working around art and creativity) but there was a lack of the in-depth knowledge that an artist would have about arts practice and how you might use kind of arts and creativity in different settings.
I think a big part of the success of this project has been the generosity that all the different participants have brought with them. I think we've been really lucky in that respect. Everybody has come to the sessions open-minded but also openhearted as well. This created a space where we could learn from each other and share our own expertise in a way that we felt confident or generous enough to have difficult conversations sometimes. Or to not feel awkward to ask questions or to show when we're vulnerable or when we don't understand things.
I think we've been lucky in that respect. I don't think that's something that you can predict. The success here has been largely to do with the personalities of folk who've happened to be here, and their generosity and curiosity.
I think there's something very liberating and nice about being human together and about learning together and about learning in community. I think there's something very specific about this invitation and this possibility to learn over a prolonged period of time. A year together gives the opportunity for a specific kind of growth.”
“Also putting ourselves into this position to learn together, and not be totally sure of the direction of travel…I think being in that position where we feel uncertain gives us better understanding of how young people feel when they're having similar experiences and trying new things.
What's been fantastic and exciting about the project is people developing confidence or fluency in new areas of practice. That's really come across in conversations when people talk about the experiences that they've had between sessions. Some good examples of that… artists talking about when they've come into youth centres as part of the project and how it might have been different to how they imagined it would be. How they've had to pivot whilst they've been there when previously they might have been more rigid or might have been more structured. Through the course of the project they've got a better understanding of the reality of working in an informal environment with young people.
And then in terms of the youth workers, some of the youth workers saying: ‘Oh I see myself as an artist now’ Or ‘I see myself as more of a creative person’. Of course they were creative before because they were working with young people and you've got to be creative to work with young people. You've got to be creative to do any work authentically in a community. But now they have more confidence about how they might use art or any creative practice in situ with young people and also about what the value of that might be, and a confidence to articulate that to other people as well.
We know that creativity is really powerful for young people as participants, as people, but it's really powerful for us as adults when we're facilitating things too. There’s something really powerful about learning together as well. Within this programme we've all learned together. I've learned as a facilitator – of course you're being brought in to facilitate things but often you take as much away yourself.
Here I have really valued the time and space to think about practice. This idea of enabling structures, which are like scaffolding that can be taken away when the thing becomes secure and strong. For me a lot of this project has been about creating physical structures but also psychological and emotional structures that allow that kind creative experiences and learning to be possible in lots of different ways. Finally the most powerful thing for me about the project is the way it clearly demonstrates a civic commitment to the belief that this kind of work matters. Access to creative opportunities for young people have become narrower and narrower and narrower, so the fact that Rochdale has a youth service is really an amazing thing, but the fact that it's a youth service that values creativity at the heart of what it does…That as a model of civic engagement, as a civic commitment... I think is really really exciting!”
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
Programme Participants
Martha Haywood
Angela Foster
Paula Kevlin
Chris Rainham
Alapelode Oluwatobi (Aka Micah Stalgic)
Gavin Parry
Martina Coggins
Jasmin Akhtar
Uzma Firdos
Jackie McCulloch
Programme Facilitator
Liz Postlethwaite
Programme Producers
Diane Higgins, Rochdale Borough Council
Helen Thackray, Your Trust
Programme Contributors
Touchstones Rochdale
42nd Street
M6 Theatre Company
Tipp
Filmmaker/Interviewer
Andy Hirst
Published 2025