Doodle Magazine

DESIGN

THE YELLOW ISSUE

MAT T GROENING

&

ANIM ATION

FALL ’17

9.99 USD

CHAR ACTER

STEPHEN HILLENBURG

DOODLE MAGAZINE THE YELLOW ISSUE

HELLO

T

HANK YOU FOR picking up the first issue of Doodle Magazine. Inside you will find Q&A's with two character designers, sketches, and intriguing

discussion on design & animation.

This particular issue is called “The Yellow Issue” because it features the creators of two classic cartoons: “The Simpsons” and “Spongebob Squarepants”. Doodle decided 2

to feature these influential character designers in the first issue to inspire today's designers. Future issues will focus on upcoming character designers and animators, with issues highlighting influencers in between. We hope to bring focus back to animation with Doodle and hope you enjoy reading. Go doodle. — Jonathan Lee Gonzales

FALL ’17

STUFF

04

Q&A ON REACHING 500 EPISODES W/ MATT GROENING ROBERT LLOYD

17

08

THE SIMPSONS WORLD UNIVERSAL STUDIOS UNIVERSAL

12

THE SPONGEBOB INTERVIEW W/ STEPHEN HILLENBURG MICHAEL CAVNA

19

3

NICKTERNSHIP NICK ANIMATION LAURA PALMER

TOON IN NICKELODEON JACK RYAN

COVER MATT GROENING AND HIS “SIMPSONS” LIKENESS PHOTO FOX

DOODLE MAGAZINE THE YELLOW ISSUE

4

Q&A ON REACHING 500 EPISODES

T

HE SIMPSONS AIRED its 500th episode Sunday, in which America's brightest yellow household was cast out of their home town of Springfield, only for

WORDS ROBERT LLOYD PHOTOS FOX

FALL ’17

the rest of Springfield to follow them to their new life off the grid (bringing the grid with them).

The broadcast included a cameo from Wikileaks founder Julian Assange — really, it did — and a “couch gag” (the bit at the end of the credits where the family sits down to watch TV) cut together in rapid-fire form from all preceding couch gags.

A week earlier, I sat down with “Simpsons” creator Matt Groening for an interview that ran in Sunday’s Sunday Calendar. What follows is more of our conversation than that article could hold.

5

On Valentine’s Day you’re getting a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

In my previous life working for the Los Angeles Reader, I used to type up the calendar section, and any time any celebrity would get a star on Hollywood Boulevard I would type up the press release. But as an investigative journalist I would actually drive to the address where the star was going to be, and I would note what store it was in front of and write, say, “Curly Joe DeRita is receiving his star in front of the Pussycat Theater,” or whatever it was — Joe’s Bong Shop.

And I remember getting calls saying, “Please don’t. Please don’t put what stores are at these addresses.” Years later “The Simpsons” got a star on Hollywood Boulevard, and that was a lot of fun, and last year I got a call from someone in Fox Publicity saying they want to give me a star and I said OK, because of the absurdity of it. I’ve been haunted since college by the book “The Image: A Guide to Pseudo-events in America” by Daniel J. Boorstin.” It was written in 1962, and it’s analysis of fake media events, and this I would consider a fake event. But Paul McCartney did it, on Thursday. It’ll be fun.

“ I KNEW THAT I WAS GOING

TO CONTINUE TO CARTOON AND WRITE NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENED, NO MATTER WHAT LOUSY JOB I HAD TO HAVE.”

FALL ’17

It can’t be something you imagined

You can admire the technical bravura,

level of quality of all the animated

when you first came to Hollywood.

but it doesn’t do justice to the books.

shows, so there’s an expectation that

I did not. That’s why I did it. I tell

Well, I have a problem with a lot of

it look better. Also people have bigger

myself to carefully consider things

computer-generated special effects.

TVs, and it’s a different aspect ratio,

that are unique opportunities. One

They can’t be too slow or it looks bad,

and they’re watching in high definition,

of the “Simpsons” writers was giving

so everything’s too fast. Also, for me, as

so you need to have more to look at.

me a little bit of a hard time about it

a viewer, perfection is unengaging. And

because “The Simpsons” already has a

when you see things that are physically

Has that changed the speed of your

star. I said that the star was for “Life in

impossible, there’s so much physically

production?

Hell” [Groening’s angsty comic strip,

impossible imagery that can be thrown

No, We had this idea that it was

which led via one thing and another to

at you before you stop caring.

going to make things easier, and

“The Simpsons”].

it’s just an exchange of one kind of “The Simpsons” uses some computer

drudgery for another.

What would the characters in your

technology now.

comic strip make of your television

It’s still hand drawn and then it’s

Not that “The Simpsons” isn’t often

success?

digitally inked and painted. And they

ironic or sardonic, but it seems to me

Well, since they’re the same as me,

use computer-y stuff for backgrounds

that some of the animated comedies

surprise. I knew that I was going

and pseudo 3-D effects.

that came in its wake settle for those

to continue to cartoon and write no

attitudes but leave out the soul.

matter what happened, no matter

Well, nihilism in American comedy

what lousy job I had to have. But there

came along way before “The

was no indication that it was going

Simpsons.” There was a fairly nihilistic

to work, that it was going to pay off. I

point of view to “Saturday Night Live,”

gave away “Life in Hell” when it was a

for instance, back in the beginning,

little ‘zine, and sold it at record stores

and a lot of really dark comedy had

for $1, and I knew from the time that I

a really anti-sentimental take on life.

first did it that I would continue to do

“The Simpson’ was a mix from the

it, because it was fun. So now 32 years

very beginning — a bunch of writers

later I’m still drawing it as a weekly

and animators trying to be as funny

comic strip, and it costs me more to

as possible and still tell stories with

produce it than I make on it, it’s in so

heart. As to what other people do,

few papers. It’s a losing proposition.

what I like about what’s going on in animation since “The Simpsons” came

Where is it now?

Is the animation done here now, or

along is that there are a few dozen

Locally? It’s in the Pasadena Weekly.

does it still go overseas?

series out there that look like nothing

I was in the L.A. Reader for seven

Still goes overseas. We were one of

else -- they have their own pacing,

years and then in the L.A. Weekly

the last holdouts for conventional

they have their own point of view,

for 20; then the owners of the L.A.

cel painting, but we had dwindling

they have their own style. Now, there’s

Weekly fired all the cartoonists for all

numbers of animators willing to paint

a certain kind of Dumb Dad with

their papers — and somehow I was

by hand. For a long time we tried to

Family template, but I don’t blame the

not exempt. [Discussion of the comic

duplicate the look of the old way we

animators so much as the executives

character Tintin leads to talk of Steven

did it — we’d dirty up the picture so it

who can’t think of anything else but

Spielberg’s “The Adventures of Tintin”

looked like there was dirt on the frame

trying to copy that template -- which by

and computer-animated effects.]

or shadows. But there’s been a rising

the way isn’t original with our show.

7

DOODLE MAGAZINE THE YELLOW ISSUE

8

What Seth MacFarlane has done with

physically impossible; it’s OK for Homer

his shows is not an imitation of “The

to fall off a cliff and survive, but he’s

Simpsons”; it completely goes its own

got to be pretty banged up. There’s got

direction, and good for him. If it were,

to be blood. I always say that we can

it wouldn’t have lasted.“The Simpsons”

put the Simpsons in whatever situation

from the very beginning was based on

we want as long as they behave the

our memories of brash ‘60s sitcoms —

way somebody in that situation would

you had a main title theme that was

behave. I think I’m the only one who

bombastic and grabbed your attention

really cares about that rule; we violate

-- and when you look at TV shows of

that rule a lot.

the 1970s and ‘80s things got very mild and toned down and ... obsequious.

But you can also have Homer turn into

And I loved the idea of Mayberry —

Glenn Beck [in this season’s “Politically

how in “The Andy Griffith Show” you

Inept, with Homer Simpson”].

got to know Floyd the Barber and

I’ve always called it a rubber band

Goober at the gas station and so on.

reality: The show can expand and

We can do that with Springfield even

contract, Homer can become a right

more so; in animation you create your

wing TV pundit for an episode,

own universe, so we could populate the

and then seem to have forgotten it

show with as many people as wanted.

afterward — but that may be due

I thought it would work, but it worked

to brain damage from working at

better than I thought.

the nuclear power plant. But every so often we have self-conscious

What are the limits of reality within

references too — Homer remembers,

that universe? Is there a point where

“Oh, yeah, wasn’t I an astronaut?”

you say, “We’re over the line”?

We debate it all the time. My attitude is that things can be improbable but not

FALL ’17

When you’ve gone 23 years without

to keep up with the audience’s memory

usually don’t. One time I did, at a lookout

your characters aging you can’t worry

of their favorite experience, because

in Hawaii overlooking Waimea Canyon,

about continuity too much.

you can never have that first time, first

these kids were talking about “The

We had a dilemma at the very

impression again. They got out the

Simpsons” and how much they loved it.

beginning of the show, because the

knives after I said that. And I really

And I said to them, “You know, I created

way I had originally written it was that

think that there is something about our

that show” and they got a look of terror

it was timeless. And then in order to

culture, and maybe all cultures, where

and ran to their parents and pointed out

tell a story we anchored the Simpsons

you want to be behind the new thing,

the creep who had just talked to them.

in time and had Marge and Homer

the thing that’s struggling, the thing

So I don’t do that anymore.

graduate from high school in 1974; if

that’s on its way up. There’s nothing

that were true, they’re pretty old now.

more fun than watching a comedian

Bart has remembered a lot of things

come out of nowhere and capture the

since 1989, and yet he’s 10.

nation’s attention. And then a couple of years later when they’re onstage in a

Can you remember what the 100th

leather tuxedo, you go, “Eh.”

episode felt like?

Sure. But I don’t even remember

So has “The Simpsons” put on the

which one it was. Now I feel like

leather tuxedo?

every new episode crowds out my

It’s just a matter of the perception.

memory of some previous episode

Success is not charming, and the show

somewhere in the middle of the run.

is successful. But within the show the

I can now watch reruns of shows

Simpsons themselves are still struggling.

9

that I spent months with and I don’t remember how they come out. It’s

It’s become an amusement park ride

fun to be able to reevaluate a joke not

now [at the Universal Studios theme

remembering the punchline.

parks].

I love the ride. To me the ride is like its

Are there things you want to make sure

Because of the Internet, there is

own episode you have to be there to

to do before the series is over?

constant, criticism and analysis and

experience. I told my kids, who are very

Yeah, there’s a few things we haven’t

reckoning of the show; every single

critical of everything I do, I said, “The

gotten to yet. But mostly it’s revealing

episode, someone is writing--

Simpsons Ride will blow your mind

back stories of some of the characters

How horrible it is, yes.

within the first three seconds. And they

that we’ve never dealt with. A couple

said, sneering, “Knock off the hype.”

of times I’ve pitched spinoffs of the

And they had to admit I was right.

show; I wanted to do a live-action

What’s it like to be under that microscope?

Krusty the Clown show with Dan

I love it, people feeling that they can

I remember the first time I saw a kids’

Castellaneta as Krusty -- that went

participate in something, I think

drawing of Bart -- it was in a classroom

nowhere. Then I had an idea for a show

that’s great. The ones who are the

at Sequoia National Park, as I recall —

called “Springfield Stories,” which

most passionate are generally the

and thinking, “Wow, this has caught on.”

would just be all the other characters.

most critical. I attempted once to

Here’s my experience of that kind of

have a conversation with them via an

thing. I’ve gone all over the place, and

Like “Winesburg, Ohio.”

interview with the Onion, I think, in

I sometimes overhear people talking

But you keep “The Simpsons” alive. In

which I talked about how in any long-

about the show and I think should I say

fact, Homer’s sort of like Superman;

running pop culture enterprise it’s hard

something, it would blow their minds. I

you could do Little Homer, the

DOODLE MAGAZINE THE YELLOW ISSUE

adventures of Homer as a boy, and teen Homer. I’d tune into that. Though the idea of thinking, “OK, what extra work can we do?” doesn’t seem that appealing. We did “The Simpsons

10

Movie,” which took almost four years;

the new kid in town and haven’t been

grown up watching the show, and one

it was the same people that do the TV

for a couple of decades now, so we

of their values, beyond being funny, is

show, and it just killed us. So that’s

have to we try to not fall back on catch

they have a real good memory of things

why there hasn’t been a second movie.

phrases and things we done before

we’ve done before. Although no one

But I imagine if the show ever does go

which I think die-hard fans miss and at

can beat Al Jean, the show runner,

off the air, they’ll start doing movies.

the same time keep the characters real

who seems to have every fact about

emotionally, and even that we toy with

the Simpsons in his head and can recite

because we can’t resist a good joke.

production script numbers at parties.

I see it as having gone through

How has the turnover in writers

It was Al Jean who said “This means

basically three periods. One was

affected the show over the years?

war!” when Simpsons dolls were

the funky first season which all the

Actually, very few leave — I don’t

recently banned in Iran. What are your

Simpsonmania of the summer of 1990

know whatever happened to Brad

thoughts?

was based on, when it seemed like

Bird or Conan O’Brien. I think the

It’s easy to poke fun at the trivial

every street corner in New York City

writers enjoy the creative freedom

nature of it, but I’m very troubled

had a bootleg Simpsons T-shirt for sale.

they get working on a show where

by the anti-art stance of the Iranian

And then the next two or three or four

anything you can think of can be

government. Right now the director of

seasons we felt like we figured out

visualized, and the fact that the

one of my all-time movies, “The White

what we were doing and we made it

show operates completely without

Balloon,” a guy named Jafar Panahi,

faster. And then the last long period,

network interference. We hear

has been sentenced to six years in

from Season 6 or 7 until now, is very,

nightmare stories of the nonsensical

prison, is forbidden to make films for

very confident: all-stars doing their

or contradictory notes that other TV

20 years, along with his collaborator,

best, actors knowing the characters,

shows get. It’s hard enough just doing

Mohammad Rasoulof; they’re under

writers trying to not repeat what the

the work; but when you feel like you’re

house arrest, as far as last I read. It

writers before them had done, and the

one step forward, two steps back,

looks like they’re going to go to prison

animators getting better and better at

I can’t imagine. We do have a few

for six years each. For me the Iranian

their craft. With a note that we’re not

younger writers who have basically

cinema is among the best in the world.

Looking back, do you see the series as being divided into distinct eras?

DOODLE MAGAZINE THE YELLOW ISSUE

THE SPONGEBOB INTERVIEW 12

WORDS MICHAEL CAVNA

T

PHOTOS NICKELODEON

OM KENNY, WHO voices the character of “SpongeBob SquarePants,” says the show’s creator, Steve Hillenburg, is a prime lesson in the

importance of following your passions. Hillenburg was working as a marine biologist, but he returned to school to study experimental animation after he realized he didn’t want to leave art behind.

Now, Hillenburg, is surely the most famous marine cartoonist on land or sea. As his smash Nickelodeon show celebrates its 10th anniversary, Comic Riffs caught up with Hillenburg to discuss innocence (SpongeBob), avarice (Mr. Krabs) and the glories of making a cartoon that’s part Laurel and Hardy, part Jacques Cousteau.

FALL ’17

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DOODLE MAGAZINE THE YELLOW ISSUE

14

When did you become convinced that the show

construction. By the third season, everyone had

was beyond short-term cult status?

new kinds of tricks -- three-quarter-views of the

By the third season, it felt like [we had] a solid

characters, and nuances in cross-pollination

fan base, and the show was kind of clicking on

between different storyboards. Everybody

all levels.

influenced each other as the show evolved and became more complicated and nuanced.

With an underwater sponge for a star, perhaps no show is more acutely aware of — creatively — not

You studied marine biology before going to

wanting to “jump the shark.” It that something

CalArts for animation, of course. Had you always

you’ve been conscious of?

been interested in animation, though?

Well, there was concern when we did the movie

Hugely. I definitely was interested and became

[in 2004] that the show had peaked. There was

real interested [when I started going] to animation

concerns among executives at Nickelodeon.

festivals. I went to the Tournee festival and the Spike & Mike festival in the ‘80s right before. I

Rewatching the pilot, “Help Wanted,” so much of

was working at Ocean Institute -- I was a marine

the style and polish are already in place. But do

biologist, but I was trying to figure out [how to

you see flaws and rough edges when you watch

get to] art school. It was at those festivals ... that I

it now?

thought: This is what I want to do. When I was at

The first season, it definitely looks a little loose

one of those shows, I saw several films ... made at

and the characters are drawn without the same

Cal Arts ... and thought: That’s where I should go.

FALL ’17

In the ‘70s, as a kid, someone took me

So you become a marine biologist.

perfect. I didn’t look at the career aspect

to a Tournee of Animation festival at

How do you move into studying

— it was what I was interested in doing.

the L.A. County Museum of Art. There,

experimental animation at CalArts and

I was planning on being a starving

the foreign films -- I was knocked out

considering it as a career?

artist. ... [I spent] several thousand

by that, especially [Dutch animator]

Honestly, I hadn’t looked into the

dollars to make a film and [realized]

Paul Driessen. His [“The Killing of

logistics and income. I just knew

I may not make it back — I had loans

An Egg”]. ... That was the film that I

that’s what I wanted to do. I thought,

out. Fortunately, Joe Murray [creator of

thought was uniquely strange and that

at least, I could get a job cleaning up

Nickelodeon’s “Rocko’s Modern Life”]

lodged itself in my head early on. I was

somebody’s drawings. ... Then, there

saw my film at Ottawa and a couple of

interested in drawing my whole life.

was “The Simpsons” and “Ren &

my shorts and he took a huge chance. I

I dunno — it didn’t help me till later,

Stimpy” — everyone was excited about

didn’t know how to storyboard -- I still

when I rediscovered Driessen.

the rebirth of the form. My timing was

don’t. It was like perfect timing.

"I JUST KNEW THAT’S WHAT I WANTED TO DO. I THOUGHT, AT LEAST, I COULD GET A JOB CLEANING UP SOMEBODY’S DRAWINGS"

15

DOODLE MAGAZINE THE YELLOW ISSUE

16

So during “Rocko’s,” you meet

That said, how did you approach doing

[“SpongeBob” voice] Tom Kenny. Did

the [2004] feature-length film?

you already know how you wanted

We had the idea of SpongeBob going

your “SpongeBob” voices to sound?

to the surface and entering our world

When I went in to cast the show, I got

— that would be the hook. We thought

all these horrible impersonators of

it would be challenging. It was pretty

what I wanted. I knew I wanted Tom

brutal — writing and producing that.

from the beginning, from working with

In hindsight, it was a bloodbath. I

him. [Beyond him] I had in mind kind of

feel good we did a decent job and got

crude imitations of what I wanted.

good reaction. I still honestly believe the best shows are the simplest short

And how you did decide on the lengths

shows, for what SpongeBob is. He’s

of your episodes -- two episodes per

kind of a different animal. We keep it

half-hour?

simple and keep it about the characters

I always pushed back on doing long-

— it helps for production. We don’t have

form. I imagined SpongeBob as being

a million backgrounds and a million

simple and I wanted to concentrate

incidental characters. We concentrate

on character humor. I never really

on what works well for television [so]

wanted to deliberately try to write

the episode’s funny.

a half-hour show. I wrote the shows to where they felt right. I planned

Were any particular influences at work

to have Patchy the Host stuff fill up

when developing this comic approach?

the extra time. The show wasn’t

I think “SpongeBob” is born out of

compromised by length— I don’t think

my love of Laurel and Hardy shorts.

SpongeBob works in long-form.

You’ve got that kind of idiot-buddy situation — that was a huge influence.

SpongeBob was inspired by that kind

FALL ’17

of character: the Innocent — a la Stan

And what it’s like in the writing room

jogs things and ... helps get you off the

Laurel. In deliberately trying to do

— can you speak to how the ideas arise

same brain-track.

a buddy show, there had been “Ren

and get hashed out?

and Stimpy,” which was so amazing.

Well, one thing: We mine possible

As for “SpongeBob’s” animation, it —

So I thought: “Where do we go after

storylines from individual writers’

like so many shows — is done overseas,

that?” It goes back to that kind of

childhoods. A good example: In “Sailor

I understand?

[innocent] character. ... The rule, I

Mouth,” SpongeBob learns a curse

We work with a studio — Rough

guess you could say: To keep the show

word — that’s a classic thing all kids

Draft. It’s a husband-and-wife team in

about SpongeBob in the first four

go through. We talk a lot about our

Korea. They produce “The Simpsons,”

seasons; it had to involve SpongeBob

experiences from childhood. Some

“Dexter’s” host of shows, Mike Judge.

and the theme of the show about his

of them end up in the story. Another

They have a good crew there that

innocence. Even when he learns his

example: “Patrick’s Secret Box” —

knows how to draw stretch animation.

first curse word [in “Sailor Mouth”],

SpongeBob wants to know what’s up

Basically, we storyboard everything

Krabs takes advantage of him and

with the box. With that one, [staffer]

for the show ... it becomes a miniature

Squidward is trying to make him look

Derek Drymon had a secret box [as a

layout ... and the Korean crew will use

bad. It always went back to that....

kid] and started telling us about it. We

that. The rule is: Follow the board! ...

SpongeBob is a complete innocent —

wanted to make fun of him AND use

Without having to know the English

not an idiot. SpongeBob never fully

it. Another thing: In writing meeting,

language, you can follow these sheets

realizes how stupid Patrick is. They’re

we use random word associations —

and produce the animation.

whipping themselves up into situations

we pass ‘em out and have to make

— that’s always where the humor

a story out of it. It might be all crap

comes from. The rule is: Follow the

except we might have 10 things that

innocence and avoid topical [humor].

are kind of interesting. That kind of

17

DOODLE MAGAZINE THE YELLOW ISSUE

Speaking of overseas, have you

Who have been some of the best guest

traveled much to foreign countries

voices?

where “SpongeBob” is especially

From the very beginning, the first real

popular?

guest stars were [Ernest] Borgnine

That’s a great perk. I’ve gone to

and [Tim] Conway. Those guys were so

Japan and Germany and it’s a great

fantastic. When you have a guest artist,

opportunity. People are excited to have

you don’t know how it’s going to turn

you. Next year, maybe Brazil.

out. But Borgnine is the most animated guy on the planet. Those two are still

So many American comedies don’t

doing Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy.

travel well overseas. What is it about “SpongeBob’s” humor that is so

So President Obama has offered that

universal?

he’s the show’s First Fan. How did you

I think it’s because of its simplicity.

react to that bit of news?

Everybody recognizes the childlike

Yeah, “SpongeBob SquarePants” is his

character.... It’s universally

favorite TV cartoon. That leaves me

understood — it’s physical comedy

kind of speechless. There have been

and you can understand.

some administrations I wouldn’t have been happy to hear that from.

So in recent years, you stopping 18

running the day-to-day and became

So would you consider Obama for a

exec-producer. Since this was your

guest-voice gig if his people called?

baby, your brainchild, what was that

I can say, President Obama’s call

transition like?

certainly would get through. But we

It reached a point where I felt I’d

only would cast someone if they came

contributed a lot and said what I

right out of the story. But I think he’s

wanted to say. At that point. the

got on a lot on his plate right now for

show needed new blood and so I

a voice career.

selected Paul [Tibbitt] to produce. I totally trusted him. I always enjoyed

So, speaking as a marine biologist: Can

the way he captured the SpongeBob

SpongeBob save our oceans?

character’s sense of humor. And as

People have to get together and

a writer, you have to move on — I’m

[realize] how important our oceans are.

developing new projects.

One thing I’m hoping [will] come out of the documentary is the realization

You’ve had an A-list of guest voices. Do

that the show came from something

you approach them -- they you? How

that’s precious and that we need to

has that worked?

appreciate it. It takes care of us. ...

In the beginning, it was hard to get

Hopefully, if you watch “SpongeBob,”

people. Most of the people that allow

you see plankton and crabs and

themselves to be on have kids who like

starfish — and you’ll [want to] take care

the show. Often, they’re kids are fans.

of our oceans.

They’re doing it because they want to please the family.

DOODLEMAGAZINE.COM