Dating Dialogue, Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW

Dating Dialogue

What Would You Do If…

Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters

Dear I am 22 years old, and I don’t date. It’s not that I’ve never tried, or that I’ve never been offered, because luckily I have. But this whole process has made me incredibly cynical, and here’s why.

Navidaters, My friends are all avid daters, as a 22-year-old it seems to be my world. Everyone goes out and comes back to discuss with me how it went. Sometimes it’s great, sometimes disastrous, but all in all, it’s entirely unsatisfying. Dates have taken almost casual interview form, where we ask people rhetorical questions with intended answers in mind. I’ve been on actual job interviews that have felt more fluid and personal. Communication and confrontation, fundamental skills in relationships, take a backburner in the realm of dating. We ask each other out through a third party, and sometimes even dump through one. We are so precious with our dates in person and yet so harsh behind their backs. It seems like we meet people just for the sport of going home to pick apart every aspect of them. Do they go to the right school; are they from the right neighborhood? I wonder if we actually care about the answers, or are just asking on an ego trip.

And not even to mention the fact that romance, spontaneity, and excitement are completely absent from the whole process. Dating has been chocked up to something so transactional, like we are trying to check things off a list and get our mothers to stop nagging us. It feels stiflingly calculated and somehow were expected to create meaningful relationships out of it. Why are we trained to expect magic from a one hour hangout with a complete stranger in a coffee shop? How are we supposed to have relevant conversation with the opposite gender when we stigmatize men and women in non-romantic conversation?

There must be a better way to do this. This system really needs an update, for the people in it and the people watching in fear. How can we make dating meaningful again? How can we make sure it’s the right amount of calculated risk without it being us making up our minds about EVERYTHING before we even get to know a person?

Any suggestions?

Sydney

Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.

The Panel

The Rebbetzin

Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.

Ican see that you are a disgruntled dater. However, you are not just pointing out flaws in “the system.” You are willing to work on changing things. You want opportunities to be more natural with personal connection and romance and less a matter of social constructs.

So go ahead and create singles’ events of your own and/or attend others. Do participate in the growing number of more casual dating opportunities that are facilitated by skilled, experienced shadchanim. General mixers and casual opportunities without facilitation often prove very disappointing and get very tiresome quickly. Careful coaching behind the scenes and more structured groups (Table for Five) are the fruit of many efforts and shared ideas for people to meet. Similarly, the role of shadchanim in Jewish dating sites (Saw You at Sinai, for example) is important and effective to help people get closer to people that they are interested in without major formalities. The careful work done to help people meet naturally does not seem so natural, but it certainly is more comfortable than the current systems.

A lot of work is also being done by teachers and mentors to prepare young people for dating and help young people meet. Their parents also need some education, but that is much harder to change because there is no formal role for parent education in shidduchim.

So, take heart. Examine some of the newer opportunities that exist. If they are outside of your community or social circle, that’s OK. Go ahead and experience them. And if they aren’t working for you, examine why and work on some alternatives with some wise, experienced people.

The Shadchan

Michelle Mond

You might think that as a shadchan I disagree with your sentiments about the shidduch system. It is a common myth that shadchanim are running this broken system. The reality is, shadchanim are public servants working voluntarily in a system that our society has created a dire need for.

I understand your frustration and fully sympathize with you. I will, however, shed light on an issue I have brought up many times in this column: dating will be wrong until it is right. People tend to harp on the awkward dates, stilted conversations, and sob stories of “the ones that got away.” Since they haven’t yet found their bashert yet, it is only healthy to find someone or something to place the blame for the “reason” one is not married. The system is flawed, the shadchanim are gatekeepers, the guys are not normal, the girls are too picky, the guys are too picky, the mothers are too picky, the tablecloths are too plastic-y. These are all very common complaints but I do not think complaints in dating are unique to the shidduch system. Outside the system comes its own set of very valid flaws and plethora of bad dates and horror stories as well.

So what is the answer?

Emunah and bitachon. When you find your bashert, you won’t have to deal with those stilted and awkward conversations. You won’t have to reach out to any more shadchanim. You won’t have to worry about your bashert not giving you a chance or judging you too harshly because you will realize that the decline from the other side was ultimately destined from Hashem saving you from the wrong one.

When you shift your perspective to the realization that G-d is at the wheel, your whole outlook will change. Those rejections will hurt less because you will realize that they were truly wrong for you, and when it is right, it will work out.

Regarding your feelings of discomfort surrounding the system, I challenge you to take Gandhi’s sage advice to “be the change you wish to see in the world.”

Richard Buckminster Fuller is more than just a strange name. Born in the late 1890s, this man became a world famous author, inventor, architect, and theorist over the course of his life. He challenged himself, after undergoing many harsh life challenges. Life did not treat him kindly at first. Being a man with no particular wealth or high rankings, according to the laws of nature he did not stand a chance. But with a swift change in perspective about life, he decided to get up from the darkest place in his life and emerge to change the world in his own way. It is he who said, “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”

Take all of your ideas and put them into action to revamp the system in a way that might serve you and your social group better.

Why are we trained to expect magic from a one hour hangout with a complete stranger in a coffee shop?

I wish you much clarity. May you find your other half speedily and easily.

The Zaidy

Dr. Jeffrey Galler

Ifeel your pain.

Know that you are not alone in wondering how our community has allowed such an archaic, artificial, and stressful dating system to have become the norm.

At this point, here are your options:

You can postpone dating until the shidduch system magically morphs into what you find more acceptable. But you might need to wait a very, very long time, and it’s no fun to date when you’re 90 years old.

You can try to work within the existing system but make it clear to anyone who wishes to “set you up,” that you will only date someone who shares your views and are not interested in superficial pre-dating questionnaires or dates that seem like job interviews. You can entirely by-pass the “datesomeone-you’re-set-up-with” system, and meet young men on your own. For you, meeting in college, at work, in shul, or at dating events (like those sponsored by YUConnects), can be an ideal way of connecting with someone who shares your romantic ideals.

Good luck!

The Single

Rena Friedman

Sydney, I can feel your frustration at the experiences you’ve had or seen in shidduchim and even more so your desire to do something about it. This is definitely one of the hardest stages in a person’s life.

The purpose of dating within the confines of shidduchim is to get married to the right person. Our marriage-minded approach leads us to place certain boundaries to ensure that we are constantly on the right path and only developing real, purposeful relationships. Depending on the stage, we strategically allow or hold back certain privileges.

Communication and confrontation are fundamental skills that are especially vital in shidduchim. We generally strive to have healthy confrontation and build strong communication skills. For a couple to progress their relationship, in the appropriate context, romance, spontaneity, and excitement are important. It is unfair to compare an interaction with a colleague to a date because the nature and purpose of each encounter is different and requires a different set of sensitivities and boundaries.

I agree with you that it is unrealistic to expect magic from a onehour coffee date and that rhetorical questions are pointless. I also agree that we need to speak nicely about each other and go on dates with the positive intentions to see if the person is shayach for who they are and not the schools they went to. Lastly, I agree with you that we lose sight of what is important and that we are all live human beings with feelings and reputations.

The beauty of how shidduchim works is that you have the power to decide what your attitude and perspective is going to be. It’s tough, it’s rough, it’s extremely hard. There are times when it’s all just too much and I get in my car and scream to Hashem. But all in all, we try our hardest to approach dating with a positive attitude because we cannot change the cards you are dealt, just how we play the hand. Shidduchim is one giant endurance race of emunah and attitude.

It’s hard to change the world, but you can start with yourself. You can be the person who has fun and spontaneous dates that are not interviews. You can be the person who finds the good in each person you go out with and use it something very thing entirely unnatural and not organic and, dare

You can make dating meaningful again.

as an opportunity to learn something or build someone else up. No one is stopping you from doing that. A time and place for this exists within the confines of shidduchim.

You are actively choosing to view shidduchim through an incredibly cynical lens. You can make dating meaningful again, but you have to want it. I challenge you to dig deep down and really understand what the root of these incredibly cynical feelings are. Sit, think, and ask yourself:

What is causing me to feel this way? Is it my own insecurities or things I need to work on? What is the root cause of this cynicism deep within me?

Discovering this will give you room to work on yourself and perhaps approach dating in a healthier way.

As always, all feedback, thoughts, and ideas are welcome:

Pulling It All Together kind of freeing! There is The Navidaters flawed within the Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists dating system. There is somerenafriedman2@gmail.com.

DI say, stiff and borear Sydney, ing about it. While I share your sentiments about the ple worthy of great dates some go unphased and dating system. Many, many hours of and getting married. They don’t feel this way (kudos to you!), my week are spent listening to horror have nothing internal to work many, if not most, do! And yet, it stories; hearing the despair and the on but need support and a little is the existing system. Emails like hopelessness... I can’t go on another chizuk to get through this. yours being printed in a paper like bad date, Jen... I just can’t do it. I’m If you’ve been my client, you this one help bring attention to the giving up. have heard me say that chemistry issue at hand. So, thank you, Sydney! And as I’ve said ad nauseum in is real. You can’t force feelings that Might I offer you the following this column before, it is worth say- aren’t there, and don’t listen to the suggestions to help navigate dating. ing again: the vast majority of dat- well-meaning people in your life Before you get set up, have a hearters who come through my door are pushing you toward someone who you to-heart with your shadchan. Be very perfectly wonderful, interesting peo- know in your gut is not for you. It’s clear about what you are looking for and the kind of natural relationship you are looking to develop. Believe it or not, there are so many people who want the same thing. Most people are upset with the system. And most people are scared to make changes. Most people are going through the shidduch system, so rest assured you can meet someone fantastic who shares your outlook through this process. Seems to me you’re looking for a down-to-earth, approachable, communicative, natural guy. And they are out there. Please believe me! Your job on your dates is to just be yourself. Be natural. If a guy can’t do that with you, he may not be for you. G-d willing, there will come that one special person who you click with. Whether the click happens on the first date or the third, you will have that chemistry. You will want to share of yourself, and he will want to

share of himself. You will shmooze. You will laugh. You will…gasp...flirt with each other. He will make you smile, and you will put a pep in his step. You will share more and more. You will develop a connection. It will turn into a relationship. You will, as they say, “drop shadchan,” and fly on your own...as a real couple. Use every opportunity to connect by digging deeper. Be real. Be yourself. Whoever can’t handle it, simply isn’t for you Sydney.

While the system absolutely needs an update in my humble opinion, you can be Sydney in this outdated system. You can make dating meaningful again. Every time I have worked with someone shidduch dating, I encourage people to be themselves and trust themselves and not follow these rules. Just trust yourself, your instinct. I cannot tell you how many people I have worked with who began to break away from some of the “rules,” and started to trust themselves, and who went on to meet “the one.”

Use the system to meet people. Once you are on the date, be yourself.

I want you to imagine being yourself on a date. Imagine it feeling natural. What are you talking about? How are you feeling on this natural date? Imagine all of it. Script if you will. You are going to use the system and then be yourself. Do it your way.

Just a word of hope to all the readers: I worked with an amazing young woman many moons ago. She wanted a “normal guy.” A guy who would know how to “talk.” A guy who could cut up with her and just have fun and not take dating so seriously. She wanted it to feel organic. And she swore up and down there was no one out there like this. To me, knowing a touch about human beings, this makes no sense. It just can’t be. And so I felt fairly comfortable setting her straight. My feeling is that most people want to be their human selves. People are dying to be real. Dying to be real! We are taught in this community to keep secrets and not air our dirty laundry...for future shidduchim! Oy, oy, oy! A prison! So many of us suffer in silence because we don’t want anything to affect our children’s shidduchim. It makes me so sad. This woman had to use the system because it is how people meet. Men and women in more orthodox circles simply do not have the opportunity to meet each other naturally (a topic for another column, I guess). I pleaded with her to keep using the system because likeminded people also have to use the system. And lo and behold, she met someone amazing who she laughs with and who feels like her “person.” And the best part is that it all felt so natural and organic.

I wish I had a magical answer here, but I don’t. You’ve got to be in it to win it...with a new attitude. And I fully believe when it’s the right time, he will come along. And maybe I have that belief because I’ve seen it happen so many times at this point (thank G-d!).

Dating is hard work. It can feel downright depressing sometimes. Stay strong and hopeful. And if you’re ready, start dating...your way!

Sincerely, Jennifer

Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 516-224-7779, ext. 2. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email thenavidaters@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.

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