INTERVIEWS
there’s something wrong. People are persuaded that this society is grossly unequal and that the hardships that they experience are not fair. However, sometimes people do genuinely think that [their hardships are] their fault. Well, then you have to start there. You have to persuade people that it’s not their fault. But if they’ve already determined that it’s a social problem, then you have to persuade people that the social problem actually has solutions. Then you have to organize and have solidarity and wage “class struggle,” by building the forces of the working class to engage in struggle against the capitalist class. We’re not starting a class war, we’re fighting back in the class war.
HPR: The media is grappling with questions of truth and bias and “death to bothsidesism.” Jacobin unabashedly takes sides — unlike some news sources, which claim objectivity. What do you think the role and responsibility of the media is in delivering information and truth to people? MD: There needs to be a diverse media ecosystem. We need reporters who deliver facts to us accurately, there’s no question about it. We also need freedom of press, and we need people to be able to create organizations that allow them to communicate their political ideas. That’s a cornerstone of free expression. I do think that in the Trump era, when there’s a lot of conversation about fake news, and there are reputable and disreputable sources, liberals will sometimes lump our magazine into the conversation and say, “This is something we don’t want. It’s extreme. It’s biased.” To me, this is a problem. We need to be able to protect the voices of political minorities in our democracy. As for the mainstream outlets that are often responsible for delivering breaking news to us, they are also responsible for advancing a political perspective, and it just so happens that the majority of the time, their political perspective lines up with the interests of the capitalist class. Sometimes they’ll give accommodations for voices from the left, but for the most part, the perspective that they’re advancing is pretty compatible with the interests of the capitalist class. To me that reads as hypocrisy, the idea that there’s no bias in the mainstream press, but bias exists in a magazine like Jacobin, and the bias in our magazine is bad and must be stamped out in order to protect democracy. This is a bizarre narrative.
HPR: You’ve been pro-Bernie for a long time. Why do we need a Sanders presidency? MD: We need a Sanders presidency to catalyze a movement that’s even bigger than the one that’s going to put him in the White House. The movement that’s organized around Bernie Sanders right now is unlike anything that’s been seen in modern electoral history. This is just a fact. Now, people who don’t want him to win will deny that this is true up and down, but either their heads are in the sand or they just have a vested interest in denying this fact. But they know it full well, that this is completely unusual. We have a mass …. movement to ... elect [Sanders]. … But it’s not big enough ... to actually transform our society, to eliminate gross inequality. It’s not big enough to end poverty, to end war, to end climate change. We need a Sanders presidency for the opportunity to use the levers of power that are available to us to actually build a movement big enough to transform the
world. And eventually to transform our economic system from one that not only permits but actually functions on exploitation, to one that instead functions on a basis of equality, democracy at work, and solidarity. A solidaristic economy … a phase that is less barbaric, frankly. So will it happen? I don’t know. Nobody can say. But this is the nature of class struggles. You see opportunities and you take them, and you fight as hard as you can.
HPR: Do you have any personal concerns about a Sanders presidency? MD: Well, he’s going to face not only the ordinary constraints that all presidents face, he’ll also face extraordinary, unusual pushback, because he’ll be attempting to advance an agenda that dramatically improves the lives of the working class at the expense of the capitalist class. Medicare for All means the elimination of the private insurance industry. Large industries don’t allow themselves to be eliminated; they go out in bloody battle. And of course, they have money, influence, and formal positions of power. They also have — this is the most unfortunate and scary thing, but it’s one of capitalism’s cleverest tricks — they have the ability to have their ball and go home and tank the economy. This is typically how, when things are not going their way, the capitalist class will undermine left-wing administrations or governments. “Capital disinvestment” or “capital flight” are names for this, or a very aggressive and more coordinated version would be the “capital strike.” Workers can go on strike — well, so can the capitalist class. So yeah, something bad could happen if Bernie Sanders was President, there’s no question about it. But also something bad is happening every day when people experience medical debt because they were diagnosed with cancer. Something bad is happening every day when people face eviction because they can’t afford a roof over their head, because housing costs are spiraling upward, but their wages are staying exactly the same. In order to change the system, you have to be provocative.
HPR: What’s the role of students in this next election cycle and in the future of left politics? MD: Historically speaking, students have played an incredibly important role on the left. And they also typically have fewer responsibilities to attend to that would prevent them from being politically engaged. But it’s been a minute since we’ve had a strong, politically active student movement in this country. Bernie Sanders may be changing that. Students prefer Bernie by overwhelming margins. Bernie Sanders has a campaign infrastructure to incorporate every supporter as a very active volunteer, and he has no intention of demobilizing that machine after he’s elected. This is a pipeline for students with strong political feelings to become student activists and eventually become student organizers for the long haul. It does have the potential to catalyze a new left-wing student movement in this country. Students need to decide whether they’re going to take the opportunities that are presented right now. Not opportunities simply to vote and cheerlead, but to become organizers on campuses and in their communities. It’s up to each student to decide what they want to do with their life, and what role they want to play, and whose side they want to be on.
SPRING 2020 HARVARD POLITICAL REVIEW 47
