Interview to Norman Myall, Luthier

LUTHIER Issue no. 1 2017

LET’S TALK ABOUT CRAFT!

º HOW LONG DOES IT WHAT IS LUTHIERY? P. 3 HANDCRAFTED VS INDUSTRIALLY PRODUCED P. 4

INTERVIEWING

TAKE TO MAKE AN INSTRUMENT? P. 14

º WHAT DO YOU NEED TO KNOW TO BECOME A LUTHIER? P. 10 AND MUCH MORE!

NORMAN MYALL

Interview to norman myall

by Fangni HU

*Note: all throughout the interview, the parts in red are what the interviewer (me) asked or said or some clarifications about them but in the pages in red, the white parts are the key words of the questions to make looking for them easier, as I decided to include the questions the way the luthier got them and sometimes they were quite long.

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NORMAN MYALL

CONTACT DETAILS Email: enquiries@normanmyall.co.uk Phone:+44 (0) 1206 366 154 Address: Roseberry Cottage, 16 Halstead Road, Lexden, Colchester, CO3 9AE, United Kingdom.

Website: http://www.normanmyall.co.uk Instagram: @ncmviols

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Introduction ‘Tell their story, from the makers perspective.

Immerse in their world and shine a light on their practice. This publication should be special, it should pay homage not only to the craft but to the personal stories behind them.’

Norman Myall: A Luthier based in Colchester My career in the lost art of viol making has spanned over forty years. I began with a Quaker schooling, which led me to a Heals of London apprenticeship. This was then followed by an early stringed instruments course at the London College of Furniture which led on to me becoming a senior lecturer for over ten years teaching the techniques of instrument making.

I began by making Lutes, Viols and Early guitars in conjunction with Anthony Rooleys Early Music Centre (Holland Park). This has led me to work on a variety of different styles, from the early Renaissance designs of Giovanni Maria, Gaspar da Salo, Antonio Siciiliano, to the classic designs of English makers John Rose, Henry Jaye and Richard Meares, as well as the final developments of the later French viols (Nicholas Bertrand and Michel Colichon).

Throughout my life I have found the shapes and forms of such beautiful instruments to be inspiring, but primarily I see these instruments as tools for their musicians. I aim to encourage and promote a relationship between myself and the musician in order to create an instrument which suits their individual style.

I have made instruments for many of today’s leading players, as well as for students at The Royal Academy of Music, The Royal Northern School and the Royal College of Music.

I have been privileged to examine many original instruments in museums and private collections.

I have also researched and collected a considerable amount of material to work from.

I make instruments on commission, but will occasionally have some ready for sale. I also

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regularly have other second hand, vintage and rare stringed instruments available. You’re welcome to contact me if you wish to enquire about a specific instrument. Alongside making, I devote some of my time to repairs, adjustments and restorations.

Due to the ornate nature of my instruments they do vary in price; please contact me for any further details. If I have a particular interest in making a certain type of instrument I may be able to make a concession on the price.

My aim is to always provide the highest levels of craftsmanship and attention to detail.

Norman Myall

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INTRODUCTION INTRO: Hello, how are you? As most of the people to whom this publication is aimed at have little to no information about the job of a luthier, I would like to ask some basic questions.

INTRO-Q: To begin with, I have been having a doubt about how lutherie should be spelled, is it luthery, lutherie or luthiery? As I have seen all of the above on the internet but I could not find a definite answer as to which is the correct term, but lutherie seems the most common term.

A: Lutherie is the correct term.

INTRO-Q: It sounds like French A: Yes, actually in music there are many terms that are from different languages.

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OVERVIEW 1-Q: Talking about luthier, what makes it special?

2-Q: Is it difficult to continue with this craft nowadays that industrial production is so common?

3-Q: (These instruments are becoming more appreciated). Actually I studied viola in a music conservatory for 10 years, finished, I think, the medium grade but a lot of my friends continued on to Superior, they kept doing music, and some of them switched to a customised instrument made by a luthier, although it cost a fortune they say it is very worth it.

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2-Q: Is it difficult to continue

with this craft nowadays that industrial production is so common?

1-Q: Talking about luthiery, what makes it special?

[speaking about musical instruments] They are obviously, well, hopefully so beautiful, pretty things, but really, they are tools, just like your recorder is gonna be useful for you and this, for the musician, is really, just the basic when it comes down to it [it’s the tool for them to be able to play music] exactly, that’s quite, I like that, erm, aspect of it, you know, it’s nice making all the fancy designs but it’s also got work, so, [so like the function, I think it is the same in design, when we design something it can be fancy or pretty but if it is not a good design, we cannot use it] if it is just pretty but it doesn’t work well, you can only hang it on the wall [like in the museum] [pause] but yeah, what, I mean it’s hard bringing it into, I mean nowadays so many things, people want brand new things, cheaply, [industrially produced, mass production] so now, I mean, really, a lot of the handmade instruments are really being brought in from the far East, like China.

A: I mean the good side to it, say the Chinese instrument which are coming now for quite a few years, is that, it means that the colleges, the students, can purchase them more cheaply, and get started and then hopefully, if they get proficient and they realise that the instrument doesn’t… they want a better one because they want to get more out of it, then, hopefully, one day they’ll come to me and say ‘I want to get rid of my old cello, this one, pass it on to someone else, you know, and get something nicer.

3-Q: Actually I studied viola in

a music conservatory for 10 years, finished, I think, the medium grade but a lot of my friends continued on to Superior, they kept doing music, and some of them switched to a customised instrument made by a luthier, although it cost a fortune they say it is very worth it.

Well, actually, I made one of these before, it was a few years ago, just looking back, I have all the designs, and I look back and, when was it, it was probably about sort of from 25 years ago, I made it and it was only

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2,000 pounds I charged them, and now, it’s (worth) 8,000 [wow] so, in actual fact, a good instrument is an investment, you know, normally it does not go down. In the Ashmolean museum in Oxford, there is a very precious Stradivarius there, but the Messiah or everybody says it’s the best one, it has been there… [he got interrupted by me], the Hill bought that for 2,000 pounds in something like 18th, 17th Century, but now you know, it’s worth well, you know, millions! So they, I mean, the other thing, that they must, like if they get damaged, [the price lowers] it needs to be in good condition, anyway, It’s nice, things are played and they’ve got signs of wear, but if they are too damaged, then that can affect, if they are repaired nice and properly it is okay.

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“Then, hopefully, one day they’ll come to me and say ‘I want to get rid of my old cello, this one, pass it on to someone else, and get something nicer.”

Norman Myall posing with a viol he made recently.

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OVERVIEW 4-Q: I saw on the internet an interview to a luthier that made guitars, I don’t remember which one, that said that one of the things that made Stradivarius so good quality and so sought after is because a lot of people have played them and they increased its value.

5-Q: How would you describe luthiery or your job as a luthier?

Like the whole luthiery, the art of making instruments.

I also have that question (Q would be: I wanted to ask about the beginning, the origins of you as a luthier. How did you start being a luthier and what made you become one? ).

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Norman Myall’s desk in the middle of a project.

4-Q: I saw on the internet an

interview to a luthier that made guitars, I don’t remember which one, that said that one of the things that made Stradivarius so good quality and so sought after is because a lot of people have played them and they increased its value.

A: I think that’s right, they, because most of them, again, always though fine Italian instruments, because they are so highly priced, they have been played a lot over the years, and also when they get restored, they’ve have all been, when I say opened, taken apart, then they’ve always had the best, because they have workmen working for them, the best luthiers, and they will always tweak little bits like ‘oh’, little improvements here and there, and you know, so they’ve been looked after, and the, yeah, but good instruments always improve you know, I mean I am sure your viola after you play, if you keep it in a dark room locked for three months and you get it out it’s like erh [it’ s like when you first play a new instrument, that metallic sound, and then after a few years it] warms up, yeah.

5-Q: How would you describe luthiery or your job as a luthier?

A: How I’d describe, what, the word.

Like the whole luthiery, the art of making instruments.

A: What it means to me, you mean?

I also have that question (Q would be: I wanted to ask about the beginning, the origins of you as a luthier. How did you start being a luthier and what made you become one?)

A: I’m not sure what you’re asking me, but if you mean If it is how I got into it in the first place, then, when I left school I did cabinet, I went to do a cabinet making apprenticeship and with Heals and they sent me to a college one day a week, like a day release

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course, you know, and they had instrument making going on, and so I was drawn into the instrument making, ‘cause all my cousins and my family were musicians, they went to music colleges and I saw how that, got background of playing but I always ended up sort of being, sort of tinkering with them, you know, not playing them with them, you know, just sort of had that fascination in the shapes and the, so when I got on to this, I stopped doing the cabinet making, and then, went to do the instrument making because there was a course in there, I could see they were doing it and yeah, I went around these sort of workshops and first did the guitar making, ‘cause I thought it would be nice to make myself a guitar, and then when I got to the

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early fretted department where they make lutes, viols, and early, early guitars, I was just blown away by all the designs!

And shapes, and sort ‘wow, look at those!’, and I just had of, you know, thought, it was like a challenge, you know, ‘let’s see if I can make this’, recreate these intrincate shapes. I didn’t really go out, to do, I didn’t have a plan ‘I’m gonna go do this, and then I’m gonna make my living by doing it’, but I mean, it’s happened, purely cause after I made, I left the college, with about four other people, and we rented a workshop in London, in Holland Park and I sold the instrument and got another order and oh, another order, oh great, I’ll sell that one, so I, it’s, you know, I feel lucky that I have been in a position where people have kept asking me to make instruments. [and I guess all the passion and the hard work that you put into].

I mean, when it comes to money and being, some people regard successes by having loads of loads of money, and a Rolls Royce and big house and all that, then that’s not where I am, my values didn’t, I knew that I wasn’t gonna go that route, (laughs) because, so I figured where you know, if you can enjoy your life by doing what you do then its half the battle, you know.

[If you are happy with it] Yeah, I mean I’ve got friends, you know, who I’ve grown up with, who worked in city of London, and then started work as an accountant and they couldn’t wait to stop! To get on the go course, but I’m quite happy to keep making instruments, cause it’s very easy for me now, I’ve got a workshop at the end of my garden, travelling time is good, hehehehe (mischievous laugh), no travelling anymore, so you know, [you must feel really proud once you finish a project...and see like wow it’s there from scratch, from this piece of wood it’s become an instrument, you can play it, you can see it] yeah, I mean for me I always be, because I don’t play, I don’t play the viola da gamba, I can put them in tune, you know, but I could never say I could play them, so, until the customer’s got it, and you know, they are happy with it, then I know, fuf (phew) relieved, you know, I know really it’s good , you know, so I need somebody and that’s, you know, it’s crucial for me, to, but also that is probably quite, in a way there’s another side to that, because I don’t play them… seriously, I’ve got no interest in keeping them, and it helps me get rid of them [that is why before you said that you could sell them, but not with the guitars] exactly, you know, and the guitar, I make, I think, ‘oh I try another set of

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strings, oh I do this, I do that’, ‘Oh, it’s improved, you know, and [oh I like the sound], yeah you know, and then it just sort of sits on the wall and people say ‘oh, would you like to sell them’ and I say ‘no, unless you are giving me this more’, and no, so it’s, yeah, that’s all [I see I can actually relate to this, for example I have, if a made a viola, I would want to keep it, but if I made a violin or a cello I would say well] I don’t play that.

Yeah, so I’ve been I’ve done that and moved around a few different sort of workshops, and normally, it’s been when if the rent’s still up or the rent’s got up, I have to move again [especially London] yeah, I worked in Soho, for six years, in two different workshops, and then in St. Paul’s, for a while, first stop and moved to Toutnes, (South Devon) as well, rented workshops there, with so other guys, and then I finally decided I’d like, you know, it has always been my sort of dream to think, god, it’d be nice to have my own house with a workshop, ‘ººvºvcause in London, I mean I live in a flat, and you know, a little workshop, you can never work in your flat, you know, not with this kind of space, so really moving to Colchester about 20, 24 years ago, and I’ve been, it’s really nice to not have to worry that I’m gonna be kicked out from my next workshop. (laughs).

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OVERVIEW 6-Q: Actually I was wondering if there are any local clients or you have more like, from other places?

7-Q: Are the hand-crafted instruments still popular? Like the violin instrument, crafted.

8-Q: I have a friend, kind of like an acquaintance that wants to go into luthiery, she said was going to study that and at the beginning I was really, like surprised, because there was no one I’ve ever met who said that wanted to do, and I was wondering what would she need to do in order to become a luthier?

9-Q: How many years would it take to like, to finish, to be able to learn the skills you need?

Like for someone who’s never touched any craft...

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questions that are a bit off of the wall, and you think, ‘you know, good question, why?’ after thinking about that [yeah, I had teachers telling us that ‘I’d have never seen that if not for you, or thanks to the students as they are more people 6-Q: Actually I was wondering so they can give out more ideas, if there are any local clients or you views, so] yeah, so I taught there have more like, from other places? for about, probably nearly twenty years and then of course, but unfortunately up to the last A: Urm, bit of both, bit of both, few years, because of em, we had some people in London around, quite a lot of foreign students, and local people literally around really busy, really really nice Colchester erm and I, yes, instruments go all over the places. department, you know, workshop for violin, whole workshop for guitar making, whole workshop for the early stringed, piano section, 7-Q: Are the hand-crafted for making pianos, and woodwind, instruments still popular? Like the all early woodwind and whole new violin instrument, crafted. big workshops, people making flutes and stuff, and violins of A: Is it still popular? [yes] Yeah, course, and then it got shrunk and although, er em, when I did, when shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, I finished my course, they asked money, you know, courses cost me to do some teaching, and a lot, I mean now, you know, a em, so I taught the evening class student, a good student, only has and then em the place became one computer coming, deliver a University and a course, it was the stuff, you know, back and of developed and I, so, I taught there course for me and for all of the for one day a week, one or two students, they need a work bench, days a week, but that was really tool, so you know, if they’ve got nice sort of balance doing that the course, so, although they are because I was teaching other really successful will always em, people to make and doing you know, get taking more and my own work, and em it’s a more numbers, they’re sort of nice balance being with a group priced, the business, but you know, of people, 8 students following they, it shrunk to nothing, and questions like you say ‘how do I now it’s very very few places make this’, ‘why’d you make that you can go and learn, erm, which for?’ you know, ‘got out of my is a shame, but that’s the nature way’. Sometimes people ask you

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of universities now, all’ve been businesses, really, rather than teaching.

8-Q: I have a friend, kind of like

an acquaintance that wants to go into luthiery, she said was going to study that and at the beginning I was really, like surprised, because there was no one I’ve ever met who said that wanted to do, and I was wondering what would she need to do in order to become a luthier?

A: Erm, if she, if she wanted to do violin making, there are more opportunities for violin making, there is a quite good, well, re-known college in Europe, in Newark in North of England, em, that does violin making, em, er, there’s one in South London, what was it called, South London college for... there they do a variety of different instruments, guitars mainly, but I’m sure they’d probably do a bit of violin making as well, there’re colleges, there is one in Chichester, well, WestDean, that’s smaller, em, I think the course is quite expensive, and you don’t get to keep the instruments you make [oh, really] you make them as a group, or always some, you know, and then they take the instruments and they put the money to subsidize the course, so already you are paying quite a lot to do the course anyway, I mean

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Some of the tools that were on Myall’s desk

you know, thousands, and then they sort of take the instruments and sell them, I mean it’s quite nice to have it, especially with your first instruments, to keep them, because you can see how they developed and you can look back and think ‘I know what I would not do next time’ ‘Or I can see where I can improve’ you know [like, how did I do that? also it would be like a good memory, the first time, it probably would’ve taken a lot longer than after a few years of doing the same kind of instruments. Wouldn’t it be harder, like the first time?].

9-Q: How many years would it

take to like, to finish, to be able to learn the skills you need?

A: Well, the courses, the course that I did was a three-year course, but when I started it was three years, and em, you know, that gave me the basic ground in to how to make a musical instrument, but that was a very practical course, and now, they, because it wasn’t a degree course, I didn’t have to write loads of things and do lots of history, and

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do, you know, a lot of it was all in the workshop, so we were able to make, you know, I think of how many instruments I made in that three years, probably about 3 or 4, something like that, so I had to go, I’ve got, I’ve done a range of different instruments and got some skills, but I had already done woodwork before I went, so, it, I think, I suppose it is different for different people.

Like for someone who’s never touched any craft...

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A drawer full of different tools.

A: I think, really, it’s probably, for anyone trying to start, who think they’d like to get into doing some luthiery, I’d say, the best thing is to get a few hardworking tools, and find out just how to use them, ‘cause that is what you’ll be using all day, chisel and the plane and find out whether that is what you enjoy doing, cause sometimes, you know, it’s annoying, because you’ve got, it takes time to sort of sharpen things really nicely and get your tools working nicely, when the tools are working nicely, then you can, you know, makes life a lot different, that to say, yeah, there’s more books on how to make violins and guitars, lots of books about them, [I think they are the most popular] but when you get these early instruments, not many at all, [every time there are less people...] less people interested, yeah.

‘For anyone trying to start, [...] I’d say, the best thing is to get a few hardworking tools, and find out just how to use them, [...] and find out whether that is what you enjoy doing.’

- Interview to Norman Myall -

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OVERVIEW Q-10: Are there actually any people who play ‘viola da gamba’ nowadays?

Q-11: Do they teach how to play it in music schools or conservatories or do they learn by themselves [self-taught]?

Q-12: I was wondering how long would it take to make an instrument from the beginning?

Q-13: It is actually quite interesting to see how they are different from one instrument to another, for example from the violin and viola, because the instrument is smaller, the bridge is also smaller, and the space in the bridge is smaller too.

Q-14: One question I had before was, I suppose that the viols are just viola da gamba.

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A viol that Myal recently made.

Q-10: Are there actually any

people who play ‘viola da gamba’ nowadays?

A: Viola da gamba nowadays?

Oh yeah, yeah, that’s true, all my customers play the viola da gamba.

Q-11: Do they teach how to

play it in music schools or conservatories or do they learn by themselves [self-taught]?

A: Normally in most music colleges they do baroque, they do modern and baroque, early, and then have tutors come in, like I went into my college, one or two days a week and they’ll give them early, you know, tuition on the early instruments if they’d take that option, I mean I think again, because I know a lot of musicians that play the early music when they can, and obviously then they’ll probably play the modern instruments as well for the money, because, em, it is a smaller world, [and really specific] yeah, and it’s appreciated, but not by a very, they’re normally a smaller audiences, and so, but, yeah.

Q-12: I was wondering how

long would it take to make an instrument from the begining?

A: Me? Probably, I’m not fast, I used to be faster, but now I’m sort of, you know, I said it, I think it is partly because my rent is paid now, you know, I don’t have to think ‘quick, quick, quick, I’ve got to get the bill paid’, obviously I still have to pay the bill, I am, so to get your question, I probably spend, hum, twelve weeks, and then, you know, if they’re really decorated, then longer than maybe, but eight, not eight, ten to twelve weeks, and that is solid time, but what often happens is, I start on something and then something else comes up, ‘could you do this for me? I’ve got a little job’ or because sometimes I do some repairs, as well, like your viola’s bridge and sting (?) and things like that, erm, so, you know, and instrument often gets spread out over the year.

I started thinking ‘oh it’s gonna be let in in about three months,

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and somethings has four months’ and you know, I used to make 6 a year, and I probably make only 3-4 a year. [it is still quite interesting to see that from a block of wood] yeah I mean you know, I’ve just been in a conversation with a man now, I mean I do, all buy a tree, and have it cut out how I want it to be cut and because the way how I want the wood to be cut is in wedges, like this, the wedges you know, they normally they don’t cut the tree like that, they just get like slice, slice, slice, slice, slice and when it’s like that there is only a little part that is useful, erm, [so that is to make the most out of the tree] yeah, and the way that the luthier, the instrument makers like to have they, they cut these erm, I was looking through the pile of things, that small, you know your bridges? I was thinking, so this is really fine maple for bridges,

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Image of the wood cut in wedges for the bridges.

An example of two brideges (below and bottom left).

really nice and fine, and that’s how

we cut the tree, well I say we, the tree, and then you gonna tun tun tun tun tun tun and that, most of the wood for instrument making is like that, and from then I’d say this wood, that again is like, from there, and then, that gets taken from there, that’s cut out there.

This flek (grain of the wood) [the texture]. That little flek, you mean, yeah you get that when it is on that surface, [because it is different from the rest of the parts of the instrument] so yeah, those are little, sort for various bridges, you know, [are those decorative? the shape] well, yeah, they’re sort to lighten it up, so that is a strong and a slide, if possible cause that takes all the sound from the strings down into the instrument, so it’s very important that you know, structurally sound, if it breaks, like yours did, or

becomes not useful, on the whole instrument nothing works, so [I just noticed it is not symmetrical, one part (left) with the other (right)] yeah, it’s more, it’s really because you’ve got to be able to bow each string, as you know, bow each string without hitting the other strings and on the base strings, especially on the early ones, they are all thick gapped, so because of the bigger strings, and then this is the tiny string and it means that and this one, the base strings vibrates more, so it means, you know, you have to be on an uneven curve on there, not symmetrical.

Q-13: It is actually quite interesting to see how they are different from one instrument to another, for example from

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the violin and viola, because the instrument is smaller, the bridge is also smaller, and the space in the bridge is smaller too.

A: Yeah yeah, I don’t make, I don’t do a lot of violins, I don’t get involved with violins much.

Q-14: One question I had before was, I suppose that the viols are just viola da gamba.

A: Yeah, it is the short word, it’s just the short version for viola da gamba.

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OVERVIEW Q-15: Is this like the signature of your works?

Q-16: Did you have it [referring to the stamp] made or...?

Q-17: Also, I was wondering, because I think, my bridge had to be well placed and shouldn’t be moved, so what happens if it falls and you try to put it back together?

For me, when it happened, I was really scared of putting everything back together. I was wondering if that keeps in place because of the pressure of the instrument… It doesn’t have any extra glue or...?

Q-18: I was curious about them being glued.

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Q-15: Is this like the signature of your works?

A: Yeah, these are my little…I mean most people have a little, sort of thing, [I think I have something stamped on it, at the back of the bridge] yeah, and that is my stamp. I put it in there. I put it in the candle wax, hot candle, so I get the smoke and then press it down.

Q-16: Did you have it [referring to the stamp] made or?

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q-17: Also, I was wondering,

because I think, my bridge had to be well placed and shouldn’t be moved, so what happens if it falls and you try to put it back together?

A: The bridge? [yes, if it is not placed in the exact place, where it was supposed to be] for all of violins and the cello, they make it relatively easy, because, as you know, because if it is fallen down, you make sure you’ve got the stamp on the front, so it goes that way round, and on the violin, and cello, it always goes in between the notches, on this little notches, but also, the main thing is you’ll see little

dents on the front, where it’s been pushed the varnish in, so that helps. So that is really, if it’s come down, and you think ‘oh, where does it go?’ you know, then, you find the little dents on the valley, the little marks, and then put it there, and then, from side to side, when the strings come down on the finger board, you know that the strings have to, put them in the two outside ones in the notch, and then just move it so that it fits right on the sound board so the strings run down the side of the fingerboard nicely.

For me, when it happened, I was really scared of putting everything back together.

A: I mean, the worst thing or the most difficult, I should say, is if the sound post goes down. The sound post is supposed [it’s the one that is inside?] yeah, the little post that [just below the bridge] yeah inside, [I didn’t know how it was called (in English) so] sound post, you know, so, that goes in with that, little tools like that, so you put the post, on there, so you spin it and spike it so it sits on there, and then, obviously you trim it, and then goes through the hole, and you put it up inside, and then you have a little mirror, you put it into the sound hole, and then, you know, you’ve got to move it around, with that, and that’s difficult.

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I was wondering if that keeps in place because of the pressure of the instrument… It doesn’t have any extra glue or...?

A: No, I mean, normally, the sound post should stay there, it shouldn’t just drop down, I mean, em, but with the humidity, damp or dry weather, the wood does get expanded and contracted, [that is why they say ‘you need to be careful with the way you store instruments] it is quite possible that, if you took all the strings off, and then when ‘tink’ you know, the little soundpost falls down, so I think, when you are changing strings, it’s always to change one string at a time [yeah, when I change strings I always change one string at a time so it stabilises? because at the beginning it keeps moving?] but em, yeah it is annoying when the soundpost comes down but that’s how they go back off again you know.

Q-18: I was curious about them being glued.

A: No, they are not glued, they are taped, so they fit inside the shape of the instrument, and normally, again, if you sort of examine the violin and shine a little torch in there, again you’ll see a little dent on the back, where the sound post has been resting, or sitting, you know, placed, and then,

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Wood stamped with his signature ‘Myall’ that he uses on his bridges.

you know, that gives you an idea of that’s where it is going to go. [I think I really won’t be able to do it].

If you don’t have anything to move it with, you can damage the hole, it is really easy to mark, to damage this (the f), I mean, what sometimes people do, it is, they tie a little bit of thread around the sound post, so that, you know, if it goes down you can pull it up, [but if you accidentally pull that string you may make it fall] yeah, yeah, unfortunately and then you’ve got a string in your violin as well. So what else you’ve got? What other questions have you got?

Clamps used to hold the instrument together while gluing the the instrument together once the top has been taken off, for example.

‘[...] if it is fallen down [the bridge], you make sure you’ve got the stamp on the front, so it goes that way round, and on the violin, and cello, it always goes in between the notches’

- Interview to Norman Myall -

A drawer full of pegs and other pieces that may come in handy someday.

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OVERVIEW Q-19: And are viols really different from the violin, viola, or cello?

Q-20: I was wondering, I have lots of scores I’ve played before, Handel or others, where they say it is viola da gamba, and I was wondering, how do you read the scores, like if it is read in Sol? or Do? Clue? I am not sure how it is called.

[Treble clef].

Q-21: I actually am not sure whether it is the same [clef] for viola da gamba and the actual viola.

Q-22: I actually studied a bit about that but forgot ehe. I was wondering which do you find easier to make, whether the viols or the guitars or are they similar in complexity?

Q-23: I also wanted to ask if you made all the pieces yourself or did you get some pieces done?

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Q-19: And are viols really different from the violin, viola, or cello?

A: They’re mainly six strings [is it like the guitar?] yeah, and tuning is not the same, but similar to the guitar, and a lower pitch so normally, you tune your modern violin to 440, [442 I think, (actually for baroque music think it would be 440), 40-42, so yeah] and with the early instruments it’s normally 415. [oh wow, really?] yeah, down, so they’re also wom down further.

And that is lower tension, and I think why they became, went out of fashion and superseded, by the violins and the cellos, em was because the viols were made for small environments, small small venues, people staying home, baroque churches, little spaces where the acoustics were very good anyway, to amplify and then, as they wanted more sound and more volume, then the violin, much more powerful sound, and the cello more powerful than the little harpsichords ‘plinky plonky plink’ then the piano took over from that, all of them, the very early woodwind got taken over obviously finally by the brass instruments, clarinets, more powerful, it’s just more increase of volume I guess, and then of course, the all the gap strings, which were normally not very powerful, shrunk. Italian gapped to get more volume the wounding,

they had a wire, you know, then covered with winding like your strings, like your violin, is, it will have that metal.

Q-20: I was wondering, I have

lots of scores I’ve played before, Handel or others, where they say it is viola da gamba, and I was wondering, how do you read the scores, like if it is read in Sol? or Do? Clue? I am not sure how it is called. Treble clef [couldn’t formulate the question properly] A: I think I know what you mean, but I am not sure, when we get onto the actual music, I am not that good, there is another sort of treble music, there is the treble clef, the bass clef…

Q-21: I actually am not sure

whether it is the same [clef] for viola da gamba and the actual viola.

A: Ah no, the viola, you play viola, yeah, it’s nothing like viola da gamba, there is no… they are not connected.

I know on the viols, you’d have the treble, the tenor, the alto in between, a smaller in-between treble and the tenor, and the bass, and then, we’ll have a big one called the violondo, just like double bass.

- Interview to Norman Myall -

Q-22: I actually studied a bit

about that but forgot ehe. I was wondering which do you find easier to make, whether the viols or the guitars or are they similar in complexity?

A: Em, the viols are more complicated than the guitars, the bowed instruments, like the violin, you know, cello as well, as these viols, there is more in there than the guitars, because the guitars, you’ve basically got flat front, flat back, and the headstocks, you know, everything about it is more flat pieces of wood, so it’s quicker and easier. I mean it’s still a challenge to get any instrument sound really really nice, cause you’ve got to have that ability to sort, tweak and play around and thing ‘is it thick enough, you know?’, ‘should I take it a little bit thinner, too thick too thin’, so, yeah, I mean, it’s a, just little bits of wood, em, yeah, it’s er, I would say the viols it’s, the more difficult. The viols, they do have a flat back, having said that, viols do have a flat back, but they’ve got a fold in them, that’s why, and this the front, so, well, actually the fronts are made in a rather unique way perhaps, hum, cause they were half bent and carved as well, so you start off, you know how a barrel, a wooden barrel is made, with staples, you know [in response to my lack of

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response, he continued] you know what I mean? like a bowl, you know a wooden barrel, so the front is made out of strips, so you’ve got strips, I can show you on that one on the side of the house, and then they’re curved afterwards, it’s sort of been a bit of both on them. I’ve got photos in there.

Q-23: I also wanted to ask if

you made all the pieces yourself or did you get some pieces done?

A: Sometimes, sometimes I do get, I’ve got a very quick man who I was at college with, who does my turning, [oh] those nice little things and they’re cool.

An image of a peg that was used on a viol he made 10 years ago that he was repairing.

Q-24: I have a trauma I am

just really scared of those, because once I tried to tune my viola, I broke a string, it just jumped, because the peg was really stiff.

A: I always think it is better to tune it down, cause you go and try to tune and it’s stiff, you think,

‘god, it’s stiff’, and you trying either just go ‘weep’ further, it’s better to go down, because they are metal. (Talking about a drawer with pegs) I keep the ends, just cause it is sometimes useful little things, type of pegs, you know.

Q-25: But if you where like, er,

if you had to make them [talking about pegs], would you be able to make them?

A: Yeah, I’ve got lathe in and I can, I made a few of these, but the guy who makes, he just, that, this is, he does nice turning and you know, he does not only do pegs, but he does a lot of pegs, what I like about him, they’re done by eye, you know, now a lot of things are done on the CNC rotter and you know, everyone’s is perfectly the same, and I don’t like anything that is perfectly the same, [it would lose its uniqueness], exactly and he does his all one by one, and they’re all slightly different, they look the same from here, but they’re all done individually so that is why I kind, it gives it a nice tone.

Q-26: Also I was wondering,

I have always been wondering, don’t know why I didn’t ask my teacher, but, the pegs have different holes…

- Interview to Norman Myall -

A: On the peg, it’s got more than one hole? [yeah] so that’s where somebody’s put the hole originally, and then maybe they got new strings, and if the strings didn’t go in, but I think more than often, the peg has moved in more, then where the hole was, it’s not in the right place anymore, because they are bed in, don’t they? and they get further and further in, and then it gets to the point where the peg won’t go in anymore, it’s got right in, and then you have to push the holes, put a bushing in, fill the hole up and ream another hole, and so I think, the reason why you’ve probably got two holes in there is there because the original hole, one hole, one to start with, then as the time went on, it all moved, peg went in more, and then they needed to make another hole, because otherwise the string would get folded up in the peg box, with the other strings ‘cause you want the strings to go nicely over the nut and then down, and really, a lot of these things, you know, I’ve got six pegs to get in there, by the time you’ve got six pegs in there, you know, that is only a tiny little bit here, so that, you know, when it’s brand new, you know, you sort of think okay, put the hole right in the peg there, and then a year or two’s time it’s moved across, cause you want the peg to be harder, the material, the material, the wood of the peg is

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OVERVIEW Q-24: I have a trauma I am just really scared of those, because once I tried to tune my viola, I broke a string, it just jumped, because the peg was really stiff.

Q-25: But if you where like, er, if you had to make them [talking about pegs], would you be able to make them?

Q-26: Also I was wondering, I have always been wondering, I don’t know why I didn’t ask my teacher, but, the pegs have different holes…

Q-27: You before mentioned about the uniqueness of the pegs, but, what do you think makes your instruments different or unique than the other luthiers?

Q-28: Does the varnish kind of preserve the wood?

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a harder wood than this, so it beds in nicely, but on the other hand, it does, slowly over time, work its way through the peg box so then that hole becomes in the wrong place.

Q-27: You before mentioned

about the uniqueness of the pegs, but, what do you think makes your instruments different or unique than the other luthiers?

A: Well, you know, I guess it’s like anything, you know, you develop your own style, I mean, you know, you get dressed, and you think, oh I like blue, green or something, you know, it suits me, I’m happy, I feel good in them, and I think it’s just natural that everyone will, I mean when you go to a college and you learn how to do something with a group of people and you’re all being taught by one person, you end up being a little mould, all’ve got the same, you say, this is how you do this scroll, this is, you must do it in this way you become a little school of that person, you know, the school of Stradivarius, they’re all Stradivarius like, that’s why it stopped me, I wasn’t really interested in violins, because they’re so, everything is meticulous, you know, people don’t like it deterring from that Stradivarius pattern or the multi-pattern they’re all so religiously, perfectly

exact, you know, so there is no much room for your individual freedom, but when these early instruments, there are so many styles, and they were all so different, that is what I kind of like, I like that being, creating things that are different, and I’m, yeah, I just feel it’s, you know, quite of sort of embrace that sort of thing, where it’s, as you grow, you, the more things you make, you can think, you know, ‘I’ll do it a bit differently next time’, ‘I like, I’ve just seen something in there’, and I’ve realised that the instruments, the older instruments, they are so much more over the place really, you know, they’re all a little bit, they’re done all so free hand and now, er, approached a modern, every day approach, everything is absolutely perfect, shiny em, all made with the CNC rotter, and I can’t, when I see the, tool marks, when I sort of see the old ones, I see you can see all the tool marks, you know, you see where you’ve put each chisel in, and a light back, whereas, when I first started, ‘oh no, it’s got to be polished, it’s got to be smooth’, you know, it has to be absolutely perfect, craftsman but now, now I quite like to see, a bit of, you know [a bit of the imperfections of what you can achieve with the, mastered] yeah, I like to see the chisel marks but there is a limit, you know, you can’t hum, restore it mustn’t look too rough,

- Interview to Norman Myall -

but on the other hand, and then of course I noticed that all the older instruments tend not to be covered in varnish, whereas the kind of modern things, that are kind of, everything is got a thick layer of shellac or plastic over it, all very shiny and you can’t really feel the wood, whereas when you look at my viol there, which I’ll just show you in a minute, em, it haven’t got a lot of varnish on it, but just a thin layer, it sort of trying to get the colour on it, cause it’s all, the wood it’s white to start with, and so it’s just trying to get the colour on and protect it, and then, not cover it with a big thick layer of glossy varnish.

Q-28: Does the varnish kind of preserve the wood?

A: Yeah, It does preserve the wood and it stops it from taking the moisture, and sort of protects it in that way, stops it, shuts down, sort of moving with, but, after that, it sort of making it nicer, otherwise it is just rather blank white wood, and also varnish, it’s a, you know you can’t see the figures that much, but when you get varnish on it, you can see, you know, you see the figure and flame on that, it sort of brings it out, so it sort of brings out the natural sort of beauty of the wood.

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OVERVIEW Q-29: Also I’ve seen this picture on the internet and it says this is the inside of the violin, and I was wondering if you could actually take pictures of a violin without like changing it, like would that actually be possible?

Q-30: Would that (see pic) affect the sound of the whole instrument?

Q-31: I was also wondering like, if you scratch an instrument, what would it like, would it really affect the sound?

But if you make a hole it would?

Q-32: I was wondering like, the reason of this shape or the f shape, like, is there any reason why they are?

Q-33: I also realised they have like different shapes, they wouldn’t really affect [the sound]?

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An image found on the internet that showed the inside of a violin.

Q-29: Also I’ve seen this

picture on the internet and it says this is the inside of the violin, and I was wondering if you could like actually take pictures of a violin without like changing it, like would that actually be possible?

A: To take the pictures inside?

Well yeah, that is taken through the endpins, cause on the violin [oh the...] yeah, the endpins of the bottom, if you take that out, then you can, you know, you can get close, and if you’ve got a good camera you can go and take a picture right inside, I mean, other than that, you can take a picture through the sound hole, but I mean, obviously that is just gonna go er, em small. What was, why were you thinking of that? To get a picture?

I was just really curious when I saw that, I was like ‘how did they do that’ and like, did they take all, like the strings and everthing, and the bridge would be off.

A: Yeah, they have the strings off, everything off and then it’s the endpin at the end, that one.

So, for example, if someone who was making the instrument could take a picture before assembling everything together /yeah, yeah yeah/ for example you could do that...

- Interview to Norman Myall -

A:Yeah, I mean, sometimes take pictures of instruments with the tops off, I wonder where I’ve got them in here, there are all finished ones, em.

Q-30: Would that (see image

on page 6) affect the sound of the whole instrument?

A: It does, it affects the sound but not, I think mainly, well, two thirds for decoration and then sort of one third, I mean, this is obviously for decoration and it is obviously going to affect the sound as well, because this is another sound hole, you know.

Q-31: I was also wondering

like, if you scratch an instrument, what would it like, would it really affect the sound?

A: No, it won’t affect the sound, not if you scratch it.

But if you make a hole it would?

A: If you make a hole it would, yeah, or really, what tends to happen is that we call them seams, where the glue joins on, you can, especially if things get damp or old, or you know, the glue gets hard and can crack, and then you kind of get, hum you know, you can’t really notice it, then you sort of think that there

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A viol that Myall made that has a flame hole.

is a little buzz going on on here and then you when you go and check the seams, these glue joints you realise, ‘oh, that was what it is’ and it’s just the glue’s gone ‘bap bap bap’ this tiny rattle [like when between two windows (glasses) on a windy day it’s like] exactly, you’ve got all that sound inside the thing and then it starts to get on those, on that joints, yeah.

Q-32: I was wondering like,

the reason of this shape or the f shape, like, is there any reason why they are?

A: It’s just style really, it’s just style. I’ve got you know, all my sort of friends and colleagues were always doing this kind of research, you know, about all different details of all these old instruments and seen, where, how the earlier fingerboards where and there’s lots of differences, you know, when you’re just trying to look and say, you know, the sound holes, you know, they’re quite often different.

Q-33: I also realised they have

like different shapes, they wouldn’t really affect? [wouldn’t them really affect the sound was what I was trying to say].

A: well, it would, it, to a certain extent, if there’s no sound hole there at all, the sound it would

be, you know, you wouldn’t get any sound, out of it, it would be like a plank of wood, but then then you know, the more open the sound is, you’re getting more and more and more sound, so there’s a you know, more volume I mean, so then, em, there’s a sort of, that’s the reason for the sound hole to kind of let the volume and I suppose the difference styles, but, it’s like the trademark each maker has their own little style, you know, some will be more curly at the top, some will be more curly at the bottom, but for the viols, that is generally the em, that is, we call it the C hole. Sound holes at a C? and the C shape, whereas the violin em violin and cello primarily, we call it an f hole, cause it’s more, looks more like an f, [it’s just like the f of ‘forte’, ‘fortissimo’, dynamics] yeah, yeah, but all the viols, not all of them, I mean that funny one there. One, they call it the flame hole, [oh, it looks like a flame] yeah, it looks like Tadpole or something, you know, yeah, little flame hole, so there were different styles.

I actually find that shape really interesting.

A: This one? This one was one that I made for this instrument, the original of the instrument is in the Oxford museum, in the Ashmolean Museum and it was made for the duke Belford and he was so, obviously so rich he count,

- Interview to Norman Myall -

in 1600, this was in Crest, so when the maker had done it, John Rose was the maker, and obviously, he made it for loads and loads of money, that’s why he sort of said, I want it carved, I want it carved, throw a whole load at it, you know, then he has his crest, for, on the front, you know, all painted nicely, and a, so yeah, it’s, they would have, instruments like that, would not have been for the work of the working musicians, these ones were made for the lords, the ladies, the ones that are very very (rich), and they’d sit on their wall, and the musician would come and would play his instrument, you know, the rich man’s instrument, then he would put it back on the wall again. [To show off].

Of course, to show how rich he was, you know, you’ve got, when I mean they would have a chest of these, they would have a lot of them, you know, so they’d 1600.

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A postcard of the viol that Myall made based on the actual one that is in the Ashmolean Museum.

- Interview to Norman Myall -

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OVERVIEW Q-34: I was also wondering if you also made bows?

Q-35: I was also wondering, I don’t know if it is related, but how often should we like, change the strings… of the instrument?

Q-36: Er, well, I would like to, also for my viola like, when you play a lot you use resin for the bow, so it ends up, like the bow with resin all over the instrument, for me was, it was years ago I didn’t really, I wasn’t really careful about that, I didn’t clear it, like thoroughly and last year I was told to bring it to a luthier so that he would clean it, I didn’t have the chance so I didn’t, so I hope that next time I’ll be able to. What would he use to clean? Like a special product?

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An image of some viol bows hanging on Myall’s studio

strings… of the instrument?

Q-34: I was also wondering if you also made bows?

A: No, I don’t make those, no, I, these are the bows here, the viols bows, and there, they are particular, they are different from your violin bow, in as much as they, this is different, they have a different tip, and they’re played in a different way, I believe you sort of play it in a fashion like that, and these ones, there, you play it like this, so you’re actually pushing the hair on to the, they’re still tightened but that’s how they, these are held like this. [it reminds me of the bass, the double bass’s bows] yeah they do, the double bass tend to be that way er, well no, some people, depends, some people have a great big type bow, I don’t make them I just em, quite often the bow maker makes bows and I don’t get involved in that, [I think it would be like a different] different skills, yeah, different I mean I could, it’s a, I often think it’s quite a nice thing to do, but, it is very fine and fiddley, even more fiddley than this, and everything is split and they don’t make a noise when you finish them (laughs) So, but (pause).

Q-35: I was also wondering, I

don’t know if it is related, but how often should we like, change the

- Interview to Norman Myall -

A: What was that? Changing the strings of the instrument? oh, how often?

It, with the gap strings quite often the people’s different em sort of oiliness of their hands and some people’s, I mean I suppose it is their sweat, really, some people’s rub go through strings much quicker than others, and I mean, you know, you are a player, if you were playing all of the time, like a professional musician, you know they, what not, they practice, practice, practice… so it really varies, some people, we know, manage to say ‘oh I haven’t changed the strings since I bought it!’, and other people would go through top strings, left, right and center, I mean, the what, sometimes, as you use em, they varnish strings, the gap strings, and that does protect them and stops them em, eh stops them, breaking them bit, bit more, can make some a tad stronger, it stops from absorbing moisture. Em, so, en, some are varnished, some are not, em.

I also think like they kind of lose sound (over the years).

A: Yeah, I mean, especially when they start to get woolly, when they start to break up, once, I think they call them, they get a bit hairy you know, little bits

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come off and then you try to clip them off but you know, it’s starts bru blubrublu when it starts to vibrate all unevenly, you know, that’s when it’s time to say, A picture where Myall is showing the strings of a viol he was repairing at the moment.

it is for top strings, that, you know, tend to go a lot more, but basically, on the heavier bass strings, they do go on for a lot longer, but if the top strings, if you play the top strings much more, than the bass ones so, and also, it is the thinnest strings and bits, yeah, the top string is for one, which is em yeah, going, well not going, all the time, but, much more often.

Q-36: Er, well, I would like to,

also for my viola like, when you play a lot you use resin for the bow, so it ends up, like the bow with resin all over the instrument, for me was, it was years ago I didn’t really, I wasn’t really careful about that, I didn’t clear it, like thoroughly and last year I was told to bring it to a luthier so that he would clean it, I didn’t have the chance so I didn’t, so I hope that next time I’ll be able to. What would he use to clean? Like a special product? okay, I’ve got to go and get new ones here.

Eh yeah, and for example for a violin, I think it is easier to know when you need to change because it is easier for them to tear apart, I think, well, I suppose, for a double bass or a cello, like, they wouldn’t break that easily.

A: No they don’t, quite, I mean,

A: Er, it, the rosin, very sticky, it is, em, you have got to use sort of solvents on it, and you’ve got to be a bit careful because if you’re not careful, you can not only take the rosin off, you take the varnish off at the same time, so you do have to go a little bit easy with it, hum, I would, you know, you can use em, erm, methylene spirit alcohol, but you have to be careful, and

- Interview to Norman Myall -

that would em, yeah, I mean it sometimes depends as well where how caked up it is.

Erm, in my case I was, it have been a lot of years so they just told me to bring it to the luthier, I think, next year I’ll go to Madrid, and find a luthier because if I had it like here, I would, could have brought it but I have it in Spain.

A: No, that’s, it’s when people say that, you ‘how can I clean the violin’ I say, er you can use this but you need to be careful.

I’ve been told to use special products but you shouldn’t use them really often.

A: Yeah, and also, some of those, em, things that break down, the rosin, not very nice during times.

[Yes, the smell was terrible the times my teacher used to clean it for me year].

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OVERVIEW Q-37: To finish, do you have any funny stories or anecdotes you would like to share, related to when you started luthiery and now?

(Q-37) Q-38: Do you get the wood from a supplier?

(Q-37 ) Q-39: Did you share the tools?

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Some wood that Myall has piled up in a corner of his studio.

Q-37: To finish, do you have

any funny stories or anecdotes you would like to share, related to when you started luthiery and now?

A: Hum, funny stories, [or something interesting] em, [I was also wondering, are your clients young or are their age?]

My parents? [no, the clients] well, yeah they’re very, they do vary in age the clients, but some that I’ve got to know years ago, are still coming back to me and then we got older together, there’s still, you know, there is still em, so, yeah, I suppose so now, tends to be more of a slightly older client base, because you kind of carried on with those, and the younger ones are coming so,

I see some of those, but some of those are playing the slightly cheaper instruments so they don’t come, what I mean, what I do find really with the cheaper instruments, when I see them trying make them sound better, people say ‘I’ve got this Chinese one, though, I wonder if you can make it sound better, change the bridge, change the sound post, get the pegs working better you know, all things, you know, though, yeah.

I mean I am trying to find funny stories really, em,

Q-38: Do you get the wood from a supplier?

A: I normally, there are a few places you can buy, from the supplier, but em, like I said to

- Interview to Norman Myall -

you, all trying to organise some wood to buy a tree coming up now, em, what I, what is nice, you can get wood from a whole, you know, one whole tree, it’s all similar, and you know, how to get to know how it works, how strong it is and where its faults are and em.

When we over here in 1987, which is a long time ago, the big gale, everyone talks about it, ‘oh do you know remember the gale of 1987 and a lot of trees got blown down, so some of the wood that I’ve got up there it was all from that gale, cause, unlike em because I can deal with bits of wood only this long, obviously a lot of it gets choked up, choked up, but I can still use some of the wood from there, so some people, you know, who

36

knew what, did set on got some of this, got some of that so we, yeah, got wood from that time and then if I get wet wood now, it’ll have to sit around for a few years before I can use it, yeah. [is it because of the humidity?].

It has to dry. All of the sap has to come out and it’s best if it is left in the open air. Well open air but covered from the rain but you kind of get the air through it. Em, er, what a, if it comes up…

But other than that, em, there are places in the, for the fronts, for the wood for the front, the pine, that is normally Swiss pine I buy from that and I manage to buy quite a lot from one go, at one time, and the, but you, there’re firms in Germany that do cut wood for instrument makers so, if you want, you can, you know, ring up, and say, I want a piece for a cello from, can you send it dadada, I want this quality and you know, and I want to pay this much money, okay then they get the tree packs [wouldn’t that be more expensive?]. A lot more expensive on that to do it, and quite often if you say ‘I want three’ you get one that is a nice one, one that is a bit, two that are a bit, or one that you’d rather not have, cause you know, except all everyone’s got, everyone wants the nicest stuff [and you can’t give the best ones to one person and the other ones to the others…] so, it’s nice to know what you’ve got so yeah…

Yeah, I used to share a workshop with two other guys, I was at college with them, so, we had a nice workshop down in Devon on the river Dart down the Totnes, and we had to suffer from everything in there, I used to spend all my time in there (laughing).

A: Well, it’s [I also think it is a lot of practice] yeah, I mean, it is just, you know, I do spend longer than I, well, I suppose when I was, certain time when I was eager to make make make, get an extension about them bumf gomk bumf get another one done, obviously, to kind of cause you really feel, when you’re a bit younger you’ve got something Q-39: Did you share the tools? to prove, you really want to, you know, get a name, you know, but now I sort of feel, A: Oh, the tools? Eh yeah, we all I’m just happy to make a nice had our sort of tools, but to start instrument, and em, when I off we would share: one person buys a bandsaw. We all use it, you am really happy with it, there’s nothing worse in finishing an know, and then somebody else’s assignment you think, you got this, we all use that, and em, we, yeah, but, as you keep get on, could’ve done better, really, so, em, I feel, well, now I don’t do you want to either get married or any exhibitions, or my work is go and live with somebody, sort of go back to the workshop. Yeah. only through word of mouth, so, you know, I rely on happy [have your own independence I customers, to show it to the think]. people. [I think that is actually really important] Yeah, I mean, it I am actually very amazed by the is a small world, you know, they wood craft because I had this all know each other, musicians. small project during high school, And so, if, I mean, probably where I had to cut wood, and, what is most and tedious for the wood blocks and I was always musicians is, ‘oh, he said he was terrible at getting it right, always cut it too short or it wasn’t just the gonna be ready in January and now is March, and he still hasn’t right size I think, like, I was told, finished it’, you know, so they even with paper that I should, have to be patient, you know, like, improve my craft skills, so, to but most of them are, you know, see someone to be able to make trying over I try and overestimate something so precise and in real when it’s gonna be so I also, you life really amazes me. know, ‘you’re not gonna get it for a year’, hopefully they’ll get it in the year, but you know, it’s a, that’s

- Interview to Norman Myall -

37

Norman Myall working on the restoration of a viol he made ten years ago.

the way life is, you know. [Yeah, It’s better not to have the hopes up and then get depressed later on]. But from the business sense, it’s you, you know, it’s terrible, I am not very good at say, I’m gonna have that scrolled down, you know, by the end of tomorrow and you know, that means that will cost this much and, sell it for this much [actually it is quite difficult to calculate now]. Yeah, I mean, when I am doing these things, I normally think of sort of ‘oh, that looks quite good, oh right I’ll sit now’ and then come back the next day and I’ll pick it up and I think

‘Oh no, I need a bit more of here’ you know, ‘I need a bit more of here’ so, .

Actually I think can relate with design and how like, when trying to get something done and you think that time and you can’t get it done in that time, or, I think a lot of different jobs that are kind of similar, even if they are really different /yeah/ the, during the getting something done.

A: Yeah, I just noticed that, that instrument, em, on, what I am trying to do on my website, I

- Interview to Norman Myall -

haven’t got that yet, is to put a list of all the CDs and the music where my instruments are on it, and that was all, and that was one of those instruments again, and that was my instrument, fret work.

They’re viol, and they’ve recorded a lot of my instruments. […] It’s nice when they actually use, then you ‘eh, that’s my viol on there!’ Quite a lot of them they’ve put, ‘oh, instrument base viol by Normal Myall’ and that’s quite nice.