Inside the Office with Roni Ellington

Inside the Office with

Roni Ellington, PhD WWW.CSUITECHICKS.COM

INTERVIEW WITH RONI ELLINGTON, PHD 2

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CONNECT. REFLECT. INSPIRE.

What’s your day job?

I am an associate professor of mathematics education at Morgan State University.

I have a couple of side hustles. So, my primary side hustle that I’m trying to make my full time hustle is working as a managing partner at Evók Life by Design. I’m also the owner of the Transforming Stem Network, which is a STEM education consulting firm where I do presentations and workshops on how to make STEM more inclusive and diverse.

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I share principles and practices on how to support particularly black students in becoming more STEM ready, and being able to persist

that I can remember. (laughing)

Who were your heroes or mentors?

and succeed at all levels of the STEM pipeline.

Through my STEM consulting business, I have

Heroes are a little different, because they’re

a project with PBS Twin Cities where we are

people that I admire. So, one of the people I

developing ways to create equity-focused

admire in my profession is Dr. Gloria Ladson

STEM programing for young learners.

Billings. She’s actually also a Morgan grad and she is well known for her teaching. She’s just an

I also do facials for my girl Constance “Glow”

awesome human being. If I could write as much

Franks who has a skin care company. I’m one

as she does, I would feel like I’m accomplished.

of her consultants. So, I go out and help people

But, she’s been a hero of mine just being a sister

with skin care. I do that, too. That’s something

who has forwarded an understanding of how to

I just enjoy, helping people with keeping their

support black children in being successful.not

skin glowing. She really helped me with my skin

just in math, but in all disciplines. She’s one of

care regimen and her products are the best.

my heroes.

I forgot; I’m also an evaluator. I’m a program

Another of my mentors is my doctor, Dr.

evaluator. Right now, I’m working with the Flint

Sharon Fries-Britt, a professor at University of

Center for Health Equity Solutions (FCHES).

Maryland College Park. She’s been a really great

Dr. Debra Furr Holden is the center director,

mentor. I haven’t even spoken to her in awhile.

and she is doing extraordinary work in Flint

But, she really was instrumental in me getting

to promote health equity. I’m their center’s

through the doctorate program, obviously, as

evaluator. I plan and implement education

my advisor. But, who she is is just a role model

evaluations, intervention evaluation and now

for black women scholars. Like, when I think

I’m doing a large center evaluation. The work

of black woman scholars, I think of Dr. Ladson

I do with FCHES is groundbreaking and I am

Billings and I think of Dr. Fries-Britt. She’s

proud and honored to be working with such a

sophisticated and just awesome. So, actually I

committed group of people

have two real mentors.

And, I have a kid. I tell people, I have an 18 year

My department chair, Dr Glenda Prime, has

old, who is a freshman finance major at Howard

been a good mentor around my academic

University. I simply love my daughter and she is

pursuits. My business partners, Radiah Rhodes

one of the major inspirations for what I do. She’s

and Tawana Bagwhat, are two people I truly

doing great and I’m just so proud to be her mom.

admire and I am so grateful to have them as my

So, those are all these things that I do, the ones

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business partners and my dear friends.

CONNECT. REFLECT. INSPIRE.

Dr. Jacqueline Leonard is one of my academic mentors. She’s an awesome math educator and a full professor. She’s now currently at University of Wyoming. She keeps encouraging me to be a great scholar and apply for full professor. I’m looking at her like whatever. So, I’m like “Whatever, Jacqueline,” but yeah. (laughing) Dr. Deborah Furr Holden is another mentor. She’s awesome. She’s my friend, but she’s a beast in terms of what she’s been able to accomplish and the difference she makes in her personal life and her career. I have quite a few, especially sisters, who I really respect and admire and who have contributed to who I am and what I have accomplished.

What is your best childhood memory?

That’s a hard one. I remember a lot about my childhood. That’s the first issue.

Me and my cousins, Lisa and Camilla, were really high-strung New Edition fans. Much of my childhood, my pre-teens and my teens were around me running behind New Edition. I was and still am a huge Ronnie DeVoe fan. We would travel wherever they were in the eastern region to attend their concerts. It was just me and my cousins and we had a good time. We had a singing group and even won second place in a talent competition.

Every girl who liked New Edition had a group. It was like required. (laughing) We would travel, but my aunts were really instrumental. They would actually take us to all these places. My aunts Viola and Lucy would take us to all these places, wherever there was a New Edition concert. They were the best

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performers I had ever seen. Our aunts would

What traits did I have? I’d say one of the traits

wait online to get us good tickets and it was

was my willingness to do things and explore

crazy but I loved it. We had so much fun. I was

new challenges. In high school, I did a lot. I was

really close to my cousins. That’s one thing, my

on the basketball team, I played tennis, which I

whole New Edition fan days, that continued

sucked at, but I played. I was in the band. I played

until I went into college, by the way.

trombone. I really am the kind of person who

I also remember being around family as a child.

The whole being with my family was very important to me as a child. I had a really close family when I was growing up. Most of my social life was built around my family. Another thing I remember was

graduating high school as

valedictorian. I made that decision when I was in middle school that I was going to go to high school and graduate top of my class. What was interesting is, I decided what school to go to. I decided what I was going to do. I decided I was going to be valedictorian. I actually did that. So, the real highlight is that I made that decision. I started to see the power of my words in making things happen.

It’s so funny: my daughter did the exact same thing. She graduated valedictorian of her class, which I find hilarious. She made a decision.

She went to Western High School. She was like, “Mom, I’m going to be valedictorian.” She said this when she went in, in the 9th grade.

She actually was valedictorian. So, that’s just interesting. So, those are kind of the areas where my memorable childhood experiences live.

will try things. I like to put myself in situations where I have to stretch myself. I will jump in and go, “Okay, I’m in, even if I’m not that great at it.” That’s how I feel in business. I didn’t have to go into business. I have a pretty stable job. As a tenured professor, I didn’t really have to jump out there and start a business and do the other things that I do. But, I wanted to expand. So, I enrolled in a business development program and I started to really take myself on as an entrepreneur. So, one of my leadership qualities is my willingness to throw myself in and just move. Like, “Okay, I’m not the best at this but what do I have to lose?”

I started Crossfit the same way. I do Crossfit at WSA Fitness in Baltimore. I suck at it, but I go every day. I may even complain and struggle, but I keep going and I am improving. You know what I’m saying? In my younger years, I used to be a personal trainer. I didn’t know anything about that when I first started. But, my trainer started training me and I said, “Well, I want to be a trainer.” So, I went through those certifications and became a trainer. So, I just look back on all these things that I jumped into, even a PhD

What traits did you possess as a child

program. Had no clue what I was doing, but, a

that resembled traits of a leader? Do you

willingness to say, “Yes.” I joined the band and

have a funny story?

learned how to play trombone without having

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ever even picked up a trombone. What girl do CONNECT. REFLECT. INSPIRE.

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you know in high school who plays trombone?

I got into Morgan (State University), I had

Whatever, I was like, “I play trombone.” It’s just

full scholarship and I was going to major in

that willingness to jump in and go in is one of my

engineering, because I was good in math.

leadership traits.

Actually, in high school, I was the only student

I also have the gift of clarity. One of the congregants at my church said that when I speak, the light turns on. I have a keen ability to make things clear and help people to get rid of their internal fog to move things forward. I think I am very discerning and very clear. So, one of the things I think I bring to my clients, and what I bring to the field of math and science

who took calculus. Somebody actually gave me their time to teach me calculus because I had, in the summer before that, I had taken pre-calculus, so I could qualify to take calculus as one of my goals was to take calculus before I was out of high school. At that time, I was in D.C. Public Schools. They didn’t have Calculus.

I digress...

education is a clarity about what we need to

Then, I went to college and declared a major in

be working on to achieve the diversity and

Engineering. I thought that everybody who’s

inclusion that we strive to accomplish. I think

good in math majored in engineering. I hated it.

we try to do a whole lot of activities without

I didn’t want to be in a lab. I had no idea what

being clear about our intention and who we are

I was going to do. So, I said, “All right, I’ll major

and what we’re standing for. I think I bring that

in math.” Now, I didn’t know what I was doing

to all my meetings, and people really like me for

as a math major either but I stuck with it and

that. Sometimes they hate me, because they’re

enjoyed it for the most part. I didn’t really come

like, “Okay, she is going to make us get clear.” I

to school for a degree; I came to school to learn.

don’t like us doing stuff just to do. Like, what’s

I didn’t come to school for a job. So, I never knew

the purpose? What’s the intent? That’s me, all

what I would be. So, when I was an undergrad

day. That’s what I bring to Evok and our clients.

I majored, actually, in Math and English. So,

I don’t think people should be moving and doing

I have a minor in English. I didn’t finish that

a lot without clarity as to what they are doing,

degree, ‘cause I didn’t do the foreign language

why they are doing it and what is the real end

requirement.

game. I truly believe that without clarity you can be moving and going nowhere.

But, I took all the courses to be an English major, all kinds of stuff. It was a weird thing. People

When did you decide you would be a

were like, “What’s your major? You do math

mathematician and that this work would

and English?” My English classmates are going

be your journey?

to be like, “What?” So, what I learned about me through all of that is I really am a thinker and

For one, I never really decided to be a mathematician.

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That’s

interesting.

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When

a learner. I’m not really an “I’m going to do this and I’m going to have this job” kind of person. I CONNECT. REFLECT. INSPIRE.

just never thought that way. So, what I decided to do is, while I was taking these Math and English courses, I though, “Well, let me take some teaching courses. I don’t know what I’m going to do with this.”

So, I took courses to become certified in teaching. When I graduated college, I had 160 credits. That tells you how much coursework I was taking. Now fast forward to when I got out of undergrad. I said, “Well, what am I going to do?” So, I started teaching. That was cool. Then, I started to work on my masters in mathematics.

I just made a decision. Everybody says women don’t do it. I thought, “What is the big deal? I’m doing it.” So, I got my master’s degree in math.

Then, I realized that I really wanted to change the conversation in math education. So, I went and got my PhD in math education.

I don’t think I decided anything. I think I was really in my flow and I was guided to do what I’m doing. I think my God-given talent is to really help children, particularly black children, understand that you don’t have to be special to do math. That is a myth. I did both and I’m not special. I did Math. I did English. I can read, I can count, and it is not that deep. You know what I’m saying? We have created this elitist mentality around math. We have bought into the idea that you have to be special to do mathematics and it’s only for the elite, only the really smart kids can get through mathematics. One of my missions in life is to dispel that myth and to destroy that mindset. I want to create ways to think about math education that help all children be successful, all students, especially C - SUITE CHICKS MAGAZINE - INSIDE THE OFIFCE

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black students.

Doing well in mathematics, any STEM discipline, is a mindset. You don’t have to be gifted.

I’m not special, I just did the work. I think my mission took me on this journey for me to be the transformative agent for STEM, for black students like me. That’s really what I am. That

this whole world of, what does it mean to shift how you show up powerfully aligned with Spirit in any instant? How do you do that continuously?

How do you live the spiritual principles that we’ve seen Jesus and Buddha and all of these great teachers talk about? How do we live like they lived?

is my world. I talk about transforming lives

So, that’s my calling. That’s what I would probably

through pursuing mathematics and STEM

do full time. I might be a monk somewhere in an

fields. But, in my practice, in my work, I’m about

RV, traveling around with very minimal stuff

transforming Math and STEM Education. That’s

doing Evók programs here and there, having

my goal. We need to transform and not change

some clients and really having a very simple life.

it, not tweak it, not add a new strategy, but

I mean, I would write a few books. I might be

really shift the way we see children...the way we

doing pretty much what I’m doing now without

see mathematics...the way we see STEM, so that

teaching all the classes or reading dissertations,

more students can contribute to the discipline.

which is one of the biggest challenges of my job.

That’s my mission. I believe God directed me

I love my job. But, reading dissertations is more

through to really get to this place so I could be

than a notion. I’m actually tired of it. So, I would

that change agent.

literally be somewhere being a spiritual teacher.

I didn’t decide. It wasn’t a decision. It really is a calling.

I would do Evók workshops. I would work with individual clients. I would continue to evolve myself spiritually. I might do a 10-day retreat on

If you weren’t doing this work, what

some random April.

would life look like?

I would just literally be living; I would be like a

Oh, I would definitely be doing more of the Evók

nomad. I really would do that.

work, which I absolutely love, which I think is my calling. I believe my math education job is my mission. But, transforming lives and empowering

If you had it all to do over again, would

people to really shift who they are to get results

you do anything differently?

is actually my calling. I’m a Science of Mind practitioner; I’m very spiritually grounded. I’m

A couple of things. One, I would actually have

not going to get into my spiritual, but I’ve done

started thinking about business a lot earlier

transformational work since I was 20, in my

in my career. I mean, it happened when it

20s, before people knew what transformational

happened, but had I known about being an

work was. I’ve always been drawn and called to

entrepreneur earlier that would have made a

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big difference as to what I am doing and who I am today. I learned later in my career about marketing, branding, and wealth creation. If I had learned this earlier I would easily be a millionaire by now. I could actually be in an RV, chilling somewhere, retired. So, I think I would do that differently. I probably would have stayed in higher education, because I think this has been a journey for me in terms of me understanding what I have to give. But, I would definitely have gotten into business in my 20s, definitely.

Something that’s always stuck with me is that you don’t have to make the mistake to learn from it. What’s the toughest lesson that you’ve learned that you hope another woman can learn from you?

Wow, I have a lot. I have learned to stop punishing myself for what I perceive as “the mistakes I have made”. I think what got me into transformational work is the fact that I was very self-punishing. I’d tell my doctoral students think I’m hard on them and I tell them all the time, no one is as hard on me as I am on me. I felt like, it is important to let go of being harsh with myself, and stop punishing me for mistakes that I feel I’ve made because I realized that everything is in divine order.

So, I think, one thing, particularly for black women, we tend to be real self-critical and self-punishing and not taking care of ourselves.

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I also have learned not to be loyal to a fault. Like

overcome that challenge?

many women, I have stayed places and with people too long. I have sacrificed for others

Okay, so this one is interesting because I was

when no one asked me to sacrifice. I have learned

always a leader. When I was in high school, I told

to I take care of me. I’m on my own agenda. I go,

you, I did a whole lot. I was the president of the

I take care of myself. I cook my food. You know

senior class. I was valedictorian. I was in clubs.

what I’m saying? I’m literally learning to look

I was in the band. I was Miss Everything, right?

out for me. It’s a struggle sometimes, because

Came to college, new environment, I started

it’s easy to forget that if I don’t take care of me, I

the YWCA on campus my freshman year. So, I

won’t be able to pour into anyone else.

jumped into leadership right from the start.

I would love women to understand, you didn’t

Then, my second year, I became a member of

do anything wrong. You did the best you could

Delta Sigma Theta, which was a very profound

with what you knew. Forgive yourself and keep

experience for me. That’s a whole different

it moving. No need to be self-defacing, no need

interview. But, I also became the president of

to regret. All of that is a waste of time. So, take

my chapter, which is one of my most challenging

the learning from me, take the learning from

leadership positions. Before being the chapter

anybody. I’m the queen of it. You hear me? In my

president, I had held

default, I am very self-defacing and punishing

there is nothing like being the president of an

and I would tell them, don’t do that.

undergraduate sorority chapter in the ‘80s.

No matter what you think you’ve done, four babies by five people. Whatever it is you think you did wrong, you did that wrong, let it go. You did the best you could with what you knew at the time. You don’t know where this is leading you, and what gifts you are to everyone else, just by you making those choices. So, you have no room to make yourself wrong because you don’t know the final agenda. You don’t know what all this is for. So, you have no reason to make yourself wrong. Yeah.

Reflect on your first major challenge in the leadership role. What resources did you have, or need and not have to

leadership roles, but

It was rough, to say the least. A lot of things happened through that process that showed me that even if I was right about something, that wasn’t all that’s needed to be a leader.

As a good leader, it does not work to be selfrighteous and arrogant. I could be perceived as self-righteous and arrogant at times. I usually made good decisions that were very thoughtful and very clear, but what I learned as a leader is being right doesn’t give you license to be an asshole.

I was an asshole in certain ways. I can own that.

It was rough on me. When I get confronted, I tend to get real aggressive and short tempered.

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of the chapter, that it wasn’t about me. I had to really learn how to transform my own emotions.

Things still had to be dealt with. I still needed to be called forth as the president of the chapter.

That was tough. I won’t lie. There were a whole bunch of sisters and it was a sorority and there was a whole lot happening.

So, I learned in my leadership role in Delta first, how to really suspend your own selfrighteousness

for

the

movement

of

an

organization. Even when things happen that are completely unfair...not your fault...you didn’t have anything to do with it, you still need to be a leader. That means listening, being able to still move things forward, not getting caught up in your own emotions and your tantrums and all of the things that you can do when things don’t go your way or the right way. I had to learn that early.

Now, did I master it? I’m still working on it. You can ask my business partners if I have gotten any better. But, at least I know that. I know that. Then, leadership throughout my career and being a teacher, by definition you’re leading minds. I’ve been teaching my whole career. So, I’m in charge of not only people’s learning, but I’m a doctoral advisor and students are counting on me to support them in getting their research done. So, there are lots of places where I’ve been a leader for people. I had to really check myself.

I have to say this. I have to attribute this to my girl, Katurah Monroe, who is a Yoruba priestess and one of the most spiritually grounded people I know. She has been instrumental in my 14

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spiritual growth and keeping my ego in check

as a female leader, as a female leader of

and emotions in order, which has served me well

color, as a black female leader in your

in leadership. She’s been my friend almost thirty

industry. What has diversity looked like

years. We say twenty, but I think it’s moving to

in your work?

thirty. She is masterful at is these two things: She says the key to self-actualization is putting your emotions in order and your ego in check.

Katurah has helped me tremendously in being able to put my ego in check and my emotions in order. Because those two things will get you off track on what you’re here for, what you need to do. Now, when I was in Delta, I didn’t have a language for it. That’s what it is, literally always doing that.

So, that’s an interesting question. In a lot of environments, I’m probably one of a few black women, as a math educator, as a mathematician when I was strictly in math, but even when I moved into math education. I’d been one of few.

Then, there’s this whole idea that my work has been driven by my need to understand what we can do to make mathematics and STEM education more diverse. I have this twofold

Your ego will have you undermine the best things

understanding of diversity. One is, I’ve been

about your life. So, I’m constantly checking my

in environments where it wasn’t diverse and I

ego. I call Katurah when I have an ego meltdown.

was the representative for all the black women,

She’ll say “Here’s where your ego is running

or all the black people. Then, I’ve also been in

amuck. Here’s where your emotions are out of

environments where we’ve been talking about

order. Here’s where your ego was not checked.

diversity and I’ve been with diversity scholars

You let that run the show. Now, this is the result.

and people who want to forward diversity.

Now, all you do is, you humble yourself, you clean it up and you get your ego back in check.”

That has been the best counsel. I mean, I have all kinds of counsel, but that’s my shit, right there.

I don’t know if I’m supposed to curse. But, that is it, the ego tantrums, emotional outbursts, and being crazy when things ain’t going your way.

That undermines us all. You get lost in it. It ain’t fair, it ain’t right. All of that is a tantrum. It ain’t right, but it’s what is. Now, where are you in it?

What’s interesting in both of those roles is, I don’t really believe there’s an authentic commitment to diversity. That’s me being straight up. I think there’s a lot of lip service to diversity and inclusion but very low levels of intention to really do what is required to make it happen. This is why I love my Evók work. I’m going to do a little shameless plug about the Evók work we do. We have this thing called an Intention Scale, which, by itself, I think is the

that

most brilliant thing we’ve come up with in our

demonstrates the value of diversity in

work. We have all kinds of stuff. But, I’m going to

leadership. Tell me about your experience

tell you this Intention Scale is masterful.

There’s

a

lot

of

research

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The reason it’s masterful is because it helps us

We also avoid the realities of systemic racism

understand where we are and it relates to a

and we try to act like it doesn’t exist. We don’t

goal. So, the intention scale is a way for you to

understand the barriers that people face. Yet,

measure your energy as it relates to a goal. I like

we try to measure everybody by the same

to say that when I look at the goal of diversity or

outcome. Then, if we don’t, then it’s assumed

achieving diversity and I look at our community

we’re accommodating the unqualified black

of STEM scholars, we’re at an Intention Level of

folks.

like, we’re avoiding and resigned but acting like we’re not. On our Intention Scale, Resignation is at a negative one, Avoiding is at a negative two, Denying is at a negative three. Our collective intention around achieving diversity and inclusion is somewhere between a negative three and negative one. On second thought, we might actually be resisting diversity, which is at an even lower level.

I’m going to give us some credit that we’re

There’s this whole world that I say, straight up, that there’s no real commitment to achieving true diversity and until there is, we will have the same results we have now. I just believe the whole conversation needs to be unpacked and transformed. That is the real issue. There’s no real commitment. Without a commitment, strategies don’t work. Like, we want a strategy.

Like, if we just got the diversity strategy, that’s going to get more black people here. No, a

denying, avoiding and resigned at best. But, there’s a lot of conversation about it. So, people feel like oh, well, I’m not resigned. I’m not avoiding it. I don’t want to be, no. Oddly, there’s no real commitment. And, committing is at a five. So, we have this whole way to measure your energy. So, in order for us to achieve diversity, we’ve got to, at the minimum, believe it’s possible and get committed to it. I don’t believe we are. Every time I’m in a conversation about diversity, I see just how resistant folks are to making the real shifts necessary to achieve it.

There is this belief that only “special” black people can be in positions of power or can be apart of STEM. However, with whites, it’s a different conversation. You don’t have to be the best of the best and you can still be successful.

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glad you said that. You’re right. We do a lot of lip service, but we really are avoiding or resigned or scared because our privilege is going to be fluctuating if we open the floodgates.” But that’s honest, though. Don’t make the problem that we don’t know how to achieve diversity. That’s crap. We have no commitment to it.

strategy without a commitment is bullshit.

So, unless we’re willing to really unearth our beliefs through some real training around being reflective, about the beliefs that we hold, about who can do STEM and why, we’re just never going to achieve diversity and inclusion in STEM. When we talk about leaders, as a black woman,

Even when the strategies are presented to

sometimes I don’t want to be the leader. I don’t.

us, we don’t implement them. That’s what

You know why? I’m going to be scrutinized in a

we don’t want to talk about. Who are we as

way that I don’t feel I want to add onto my plate.

STEM educators that would have this diversity

I don’t. All my black female friends who are real

conversation going on for fifty years and we’re

leaders out there doing stuff, they’re stressed

barely making a dent in it?

out a lot.

We changed the whole way we traveled in

You’ve got to be impeccable all the time. Who

six months, max, when it was 9/11. This is the

can be that all the time? You see what I’m

top thing I share in all my talks. After 9/11, we

saying? Because there is a whole belief around

changed. When that happened, we said, “Not on

us that we don’t want to own. As a black woman,

our watch.” In six months, we had to take off our

as a “person of color,” you’ve got very little

shoes, our bra, and we couldn’t drink water. It

room, very little room. One bad pronoun and all

was serious out here, right?

a sudden you don’t have a good education and

For fifty years, we’ve been talking about diversity in STEM, and somehow we can’t figure it out. But, we could figure out how to change a whole airline structure and system in six months. Give me a break. The difference is, we were committed. We were committed that that wouldn’t happen to us again as Americans. We ain’t that way about diversity. We just aren’t.

Top businesses have a board of

you are marginalized and criticized, and that’s a lot of pressure. This is why we are getting sick and we are stroking out. We’re not fulfilled.

We’re stressed, because what it takes to stay in these environments that are not for you, it takes something. People are getting their own businesses. They don’t want to deal with it no more.

I don’t know if this is a comfortable conversation.

I go all across the country and I do talks in front

directors that help them to govern their

of predominantly white audiences, mixed

business successfully, who’s on your

audiences and I have the same discussion.

personal board of directors?

Sometimes, white people will come to me at the end and go, “You know what, Dr. Ellington, I’m

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You know, I need to get one. Wow. I don’t really have a board of directors. In my STEM business, I do a lot of it myself. I don’t even have an assistant. That’s my biggest challenge, creating support around me.

Definitely, Tawana, who keeps me grounded. My girl Radiah, who is my all around champion and business partner. My friend Debra. I guess I do have a board of directors. I just don’t call them that. All of my friends are freaking awesome.

I swear, when I hear black women say, “Oh, I can’t trust black women.” I don’t know. I can’t even relate. I’m like, “Yo, the women I know are impeccable. So, I don’t know what you are talking about.” I think black women rock and are the best thing since pockets, you hear me?

I’m a piece of work. They’ll tell you. I’m a piece of work. So, for them to be great with me, that takes something.

What keeps you up at night?

Nothing for now. I’m doing this Crossfit. I try to get some sleep. I don’t know. What keeps me up at night? Sometimes I get a little worried about the financials, my financial future. I did start a business of late. I just wrote a check to the IRS, so I was up all night for that. It kind of almost wiped out my savings. But, oh, well. So, that leaves me, and my daughter is going to college, to Howard. That keeps me up at night.

She could have gone to Morgan for free, but she did not want to go. That’s respectable, because she grew up here. I’ve been here for 15 years.

She was like, “Mom, Morgan though, really?” So, 18

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that keeps me up at night, being able to support

working out. It was cold. I feel like the winter was

myself and live the life I want. What also keeps

forever. I was hibernating like a bear. I actually

me up at night is my mother died in her early 50s.

gained twenty pounds as a result.

Sometimes as I push 50, there’s a little concern about, “If I am going to die of what she died of, how long do I have?” There’s a little bit of that.

Then, at the end of the day, you have no say over that. All you can do is take care of yourself and do the best you can.

Then, also, being a single woman. Sometimes, I get a little, not lonely, because I wouldn’t call it that. I get lonesome. I think that’s a better word.

I would really love to partner, but I don’t know.

I’m looking at what’s available, and I’m not too impressed all the time. But, you know, I am dating someone that I like.

So, now that I’m back in doing fitness stuff and working out, I feel that’s for me. I feel like the first week or so has been a challenge. I have been aching, but I enjoy that. I feel accomplished that I’m taking care of myself. I don’t know. I think I can do a better job taking care of myself.

My emotions are taken to a counselor. My counselor, Dr. Cook, is awesome. I go to her every week, no fail. I don’t play with that time. People do not get that time. So, I’ve just incorporated going to counseling and having a space where I get to be heard. I get to express. I don’t have to put on fronts. I mean, I curse a lot there. She

I would love to be independently wealthy. Like,

just listens to me and I know she be like: “This

really independently wealthy. Then I could, I

client here!” (laughing) She keeps writing notes.

would be a spiritual guru somewhere. I would

I’m curious to see what those notes are. Like, am

be like on a trek, I would be in India somewhere,

I crazy? You know she will be like, “No, you’re

doing retreats and meditation and yoga and

not.” So, counseling has been a thing that has

walking mountains. I would love to live that

really been helpful for me.

lifestyle. Oh, it’s so me.

There are also my conversations with my

What do you do for you that brings you

friends who really call me out to be better, and

absolute joy or peace?

my relationships, my female relationships. I would love to have my male relationships mirror

When I meditate or when I am in a regular meditation practice, that’s it for me. I wake up in the morning and I’m very quiet and still for a

my female relationships, to be honest. I haven’t had as much luck with men as I do with female friendships. They’ve been very supportive.

while. Even when I’m in my car, it’s very rare that

My sister, who I love. I have one baby sister who

I have music or anything in my car. I spent a lot of

I adore, who just loves me and I just love her. I

quiet time when I’m not interacting with people.

will give her my kidney, because she joked to

I’ve actually started my workout program again,

me that if she needed a kidney, I had to keep my

because over the last six months, I really wasn’t

kidneys straight. So, I don’t drink. I don’t smoke.

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I’m ready if I need to give her a kidney. So those

for me, but the work itself is really phenomenal.

are the things that I think give me joy. Also, my

It’s all about the intention scale. I recommend

daughter who I absolutely adore. I think she’s a

people to get it.

wonderful person. I don’t just say that because she’s my child. I think she’s a wonderful person in general.

So, those are just the ones I can think about right now. There are many on my shelf. One of them, for my fitness journey, has been Body for

What’s your favorite book of any genre?

Life by Bill Phillips. It’s the first book I read that

What are you reading right now?

really helped me understand nutrition and how to think about working out and training. So, I’d

Ooh, girl. Wow, so one book that made the

read Body for Life. Different things depending

biggest difference with me is Maryanne

on which area I’m in, in my academic work. I can

Williamson’s Return to Love, and A Course in

go on and on and on. But, these are the ones that

Miracles. It was a course; I’m still an A Course in

are just coming to me as I think on it and reflect.

Miracles student. I’m not as active as I was before,

I’m not reading anything right now, to be honest.

but A Course in Miracles was transformative to

I’ve been working on several projects. I’ve been

me. I’ve completed the course several times. I

reading a whole lot to get this book chapter.

think it’s a phenomenal book. It’s about spiritual

I’m writing a book. So, I’ve been reading a lot of

psychotherapy and helping you shift your

things around that. So I’m not reading anything

perspective from fear to love.

leisurely right now. All of it is kind of academic

The Untethered Soul is one of my other favorite

reading, right now.

books by… his last name is Singer. I can read it over and over and over again, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. I love it. These are just my favorite books. I can read them over and over again. Another is You Can Heal Your Life, by Louise Hay.

What’s a skill you want to learn and why?

I don’t know if this is a skill. But, you know how Michelle Obama is? Michelle Obama to me is the representation of smart, authentic and classy, and she’s real. There’s a certain polish to

Now Being is the New Doing, by my partner

her. So, one of the things I was telling my friend

Radiah Rhodes, which I think is phenomenal.

Radiah is that I Iove my authenticity but I would

Just a plug, it’s a very good book. She just put

like to be more sophisticated and polished in my

it out. That book has really made a difference.

presentation. There is definitely some room for

It really embodies our work, which we spent

me to be more polished. I’m pretty raw. I’m like

four years developing. So, that work really is

a raw diamond.

a testament to the work we’ve done. Not only Radiah’s life and who she is and who she’s been 20

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So, I really would love skill on how to speak in ways that are powerful, but not necessarily offCONNECT. REFLECT. INSPIRE.

putting, because I can be off-putting sometimes.

Not because I mean to be, but because my disposition and the way I speak may shock people. Now, when I’m doing talks in front of 500 people and then that’s my job, it can make a difference. When I’m on one-on-one, I can be a little off-putting. I own that. I’m very real, I’m very straight. I have very little room for the bullshit. But, I know there’s a way I can be that way and still honor people and be patient and kind. So, I would love that skill. Michelle has it.

Who else has it? Oprah has it. See, I’m like Iyanla Vanzant who doesn’t have it. That’s why I love her. She’s very much like me.

I look at “Fix Your Life” and I’m just enthralled.

It is kind of my personality. People have told me that. The way she is, I can relate to Iyanla. There’s some room for a polish to it. I would love to have it, I would love to be that way. I don’t know what that is, but Michelle Obama embodies it. She’s very real. She’s not phony. I don’t want to be phony. I don’t do that. But, there’s a gift of being relatable, an authenticity, a classiness that I would love to develop.

Definitely when I’m leading a workshop, when I’m working with someone around our Intention Scale and helping them to really see what’s in the way or the barrier to why they don’t have what they want, I’m very confident that I can see it and catch it. Oh, I see people’s limitations

I would also like to write more. I’m a decent

in the first five minutes of their conversation. I

writer but I really want to become an even better

can hear. If you say, “I want something,” and you

writer, so I can get these projects out. Writing

don’t have it and you talk to me for five minutes,

is still a struggle for me. Academic writing is a

you’ll get clear about why you don’t have it. I’m

struggle. It’s all a struggle. Just writing, period,

masterful at clarity. Oh, like one plus one equals

gives me a headache. So, I really want to get

to two. I’m a Mathematician. You’re showing up

some peace with my writing so I can actually

this way, doing this stuff, and that equals this.

publish more scholarly articles and research. I would like to write a book as well..

When do you feel the most confident?

It’s not a mystery. You will never hear me say that I am confused. I say a lot of things, but I don’t know why, you will never hear me say that.

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“The reason you’re twenty pounds overweight is because you spent the winter doing A, B, C, D, E, F, G. That equals twenty pounds.” I may not

Okay. Tell me what you meant when you

like it, but I am not confused. People are really

said straight.

confused about results they have. I’m like, it’s so obvious to me why you got what you got. It comes off jerky, because I’m like, “Are you really are confused? Are you serious?” They really are confused and I’m like, “Oh, no you are not.” (laughing)

Straight talk, like I don’t have a whole bunch of fluff. That’s probably why I’m not as sophisticated as Michelle Obama. My students say when you come to me and you ask me a question, you get this straight answer. I don’t have a lot of pretense.

I’m very confident when I’m going through

I don’t even know what that is. Like, people say

that process, helping people to identify their

I’m inappropriate a lot of times. It’s not that I’m

default and how their default has created the

trying to be inappropriate. I’m just telling the

life that they are living. I’m very confident when

truth as I see it. It’s like straight, no chaser. I don’t

I speak. I’m very straight up. I’m a very good

have a whole bunch of chaser.

public speaker. I’m extremely good. I’m a STEM speaker, so when people hire me to come out

I can take it straight too. I actually like people like

or just ask me to come speak, they’re floored at

that. That’s why I love Vanzant. She’s speaking

how good I am, because in STEM, we don’t have

straight. She says what she sees. You don’t have

a lot of good ones. People who do math don’t

to like it. Maybe she could say it better, whatever.

speak well and are boring. (laughing)

But, she’s not wrong. That’s the thing. I ask

If you had to describe yourself in five words, what would they be?

people, “Where is the lie in what I say?” You may not have liked what I said, or even how I said it, but was it wrong? Most of the time, 95 percent of the time, they’re like, “Nope. You could have just

Real. I’m pretty much what you see is what you

said it better.” Or, “I don’t like the way you said it.”

get. Good, bad, ugly and indifferent. I would

Or, “Why did you have to say it?” All of that, that’s

say real, heartfelt, straight. I care about people.

what straight talk people get.

I care. My care is not your soft care, but I care enough to tell you the truth and be truthful.

What would you like your epitaph to be?

There are things that I’m not as truthful about, because they are things I’m still working through, but those are things that I know. That’s the goal, to always be more authentic, more real, more true to myself, more expressed.

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She made a difference. Her life made a difference. I don’t know if this would be it, but “She gave the world a new perspective.” I really love the idea of transformation. That’s why I love CONNECT. REFLECT. INSPIRE.

Whether that’s working with clients at Evók, or transforming STEM, or even as a teacher, I want to make a difference. I want people to say: She changed the game in STEM education. She changed the game in self-development. She was a part of that movement that we see things differently and they made a difference.

If your life were a movie, what would be your theme song?

“I’m Every Woman.” I just love Chaka Khan. “It’s all in me. I can read your thoughts right now, every one from A to Z,” because I can. It’s like that, that I’m every woman. I am every woman.

I’m not special. I’m not less than. I’m every woman, and every woman is me. So that would be my theme song.

Is there anything else you wish I had asked you?

No. I appreciate what you did ask me. It got me thinking about myself in a whole new way. So, I transformation. In my world, transformation is a shift in perception. So when you can shift how you see things, your whole world shows up differently. What I would like to be, you know, my legacy, if you will, is this whole idea that she gave it straight, and she saw it differently.

guess this was for you, but it was for me. It got me present in myself and what matters to me. I can’t think of anything. You went into my business. (laughing) So no, actually, no. I appreciate the opportunity to answer the questions.

How can readers connect with you?

It made a difference. Yeah, it was straight. No chaser, it made a difference, and she saw things

I’m at evoklife.com, tranSTEM.net or Roni.

differently. Like there’s something about how

Ellington@Morgan.Edu.

she showed up and how she was the one that literally opened my eyes to something that made a difference in the world.

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CONNECT. REFLECT. INSPIRE.

Images by C-Suite Pics® Interview by Lydia Kearney Carlis, PhD Graphic design by Daniella Marooney

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