




We talk to Rebecca Ferguson (p 12) about setting heroics aside in “Silo.” Carrie Preston (p 16) is thrilled to reprise her fanfavorite “The Good Wife” character. Director Ron Howard (p 18) shares the central question behind his documentary “Jim Henson Idea Man.’
Take a closer look at Donald Glover’s highly decorated career in Who’s Counting (p 47). Has the appeal of shows about misbehaving wealthy people tapered off? (p 52) Revisit that time Emmy winner Allison Janney (p 56) invited her fellow nominees onstage. Cover photograph by Christina House
The Envelope logo and section headers by Dazzle Studio For The Times COVER STORY
For The Envelope Roundtable, stars from TV’s top dramas get serious about their earliest roles, bad scene partners and what they learned from last year’s dual writers’ and actors’ strikes. p 24
The Wide Shot (p 60) breaks down how Hollywood’s slow recovery is putting the squeeze on belowtheline workers. Team Downey’s Amanda Burrell (p 62) explains what type of projects excite her the most. Jessica Hobbs (p 64) details making of an explosive “Crown” finale.
Drama, Documentary June 11, 2024
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STEPHEN BATTAGLIO
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SAMANTHA MASUNAGA
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You can find all our picks at latimes.com/ buzzmeter
Our panel of Emmy experts share their picks
THE GREAT “SHŌGUN” SWITCHEROO TO DRAMA ROCKED A LOT OF RELATED categories butthere’s plenty for our panelists to choose from in the limited series race. With just five nomination slots available, they included 14 titles in their Round 1 picks, with most of the weighted votes going to “True Detective: Night Country.” Glenn Whipp calls “Ripley” “gorgeous to behold and a marvel in its plotting,” while Matt Roush says “Fellow Travelers,” from Thomas Mallon’s 2007 novel about two men who meet in the McCarthy era, “deserves to break through for its fascinating window into America’s troubled and closeted past.”
GLENN WHIPP
Los Angeles Times
‘RIPLEY’ ‘EXPATS’ ‘BABY REINDEER’ ‘MASTERS OF THE AIR’ ‘LESSONS IN CHEMISTRY’
“Ripley” is riveting in delivering slowburn suspense, following its title sociopath on a quest to extend his European vacation and live a life of luxury. Gorgeous to behold, a marvel in its plotting, I can only hope it makes good on its openended promise to return.
MATT
ROUSH
TV Guide
‘FELLOW TRAVELERS’ ‘FARGO’ ‘TRUE DETECTIVE: NIGHT COUNTRY’ ‘THE SYMPATHIZER’ ‘LESSONS IN CHEMISTRY’
Of all categories to limit to five picks, this is the worst. It’s where much of TV’s best work is being produced, and in a crowded field, Showtime’s “Fellow Travelers” deserves to break through for its fascinating window into America’s troubled and closeted past.
LORRAINE ALI Los Angeles Times
‘TRUE DETECTIVE: NIGHT COUNTRY’ (TIE) ‘FELLOW TRAVELERS’ (TIE) ‘RIPLEY’ ‘FARGO’
‘FEUD: CAPOTE VS. THE SWANS’ It’s another strong year here. Netflix’s “Ripley” is certain to be nominated. “True Detective: Night Country” is also a likely contender, and not just because it’s my favorite installation of the creepy HBO series. Less likely but worth a nod is Showtime’s “Fellow Travelers,” which follows a clandestine gay romance from the McCarthy era to the 1980s AIDs crisis.
KRISTEN BALDWIN Entertainment Weekly
‘TRUE DETECTIVE: NIGHT COUNTRY’ ‘FARGO’ ‘RIPLEY’ ‘BABY REINDEER’ ‘FEUD: CAPOTE VS. THE SWANS’ With “Shōgun” graduating to drama, Netflix’s wordofmouth hit “Baby Reindeer” is now the frontrunner. FX’s starstudded “Feud” could still squeak in here, but it probably will have to settle for nominations in the acting categories instead.
TREY MANGUM Shadow and Act
‘FELLOW TRAVELERS’ ‘GENIUS: MLK/X’ ‘LESSONS IN CHEMISTRY’ ‘TRUE DETECTIVE: NIGHT COUNTRY’ ‘MARY & GEORGE’
“Baby Reindeer” has been racking up the attention for some time now, but we aren’t really sure if it’ll translate into awards love just yet. Will it? Just maybe. Until then, it’s “Fellow Travelers” for me, especially with “Shōgun” now in the drama series category.
TRACY BROWN Los Angeles Times
‘ECHO’ ‘TRUE DETECTIVE: NIGHT COUNTRY’ ‘A MURDER AT THE END OF THE WORLD’ ‘FARGO’ ‘THE SYMPATHIZER’ I like my fictional murdermysteries a bit lighter, but “A Murder at the End of the World” pulled me in. “Fellow Travelers” is on the prestige end of queer storytelling that draws on LGBTQ+ people’s devastating reality in the U.S.
Billy Crudup p 10
Rebecca Ferguson p 12
Carrie Preston p 16
Ron Howard p 18
‘Fallout’ p 20
COVER STORY: Drama Roundtable p 24
Alex Gibney p 38
‘3 Body Problem’ p 40
Story by
Emily Zemler London
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Photograph by Oliver Mayhall For The Times
Billy Crudup has found his character, Cory Ellison, fascinating since he first met him on the page, when Jennifer Aniston suggested he audition for the series. ‘Yeah, I like that weirdo.’
THE THIRD SEASON OF “THE Morning Show” was undeniably ambitious in its storytelling and stakes, putting fictional network UBA’s future in jeopardy while drawing back the curtain on favorite characters. For Billy Crudup, it was a difficult journey to navigate as viewers learned more about Cory Ellison, the charmingly flawed chief executive of UBA. After playing Cory for several years, Crudup’s instinct was not to delve as deep into the character’s psychology as the writers wanted.
“They kept putting the screws to Cory and trying to illuminate some of his previous life and his previous relationships and his thinking outside of the office, which at first I felt very protective about,” Crudup says, speaking in April in London, where he was performing in the oneman West End show “Harry Clarke.” “I was like, ‘No, don’t show any of that s—.’ His whole game is that people don’t know what he’s thinking. The unpredictability of his mental gymnastics, his own certain way of managing social and corporate situations is the special sauce for him, and it’s what makes chaos so useful for him, because he’s very, very good at processing information on the fly. It’s uninteresting to me to know how that is made.”
↓ Billy Crudup and Greta Lee work on “The Morning Show,” from Apple TV+.
Crudup has established Cory as one of the show’s most compelling figures. He’s a complex enigma who is perpetually thrilled by challenges and uncertain situa
tions. But in Season 3, Cory faltered, perhaps for the first time in his life, and was left jobless by the end of the finale. Crudup has found Cory fascinating since he first met him on the page when Jennifer Aniston suggested he audition for the series after seeing him in an earlier production of “Harry Clarke.”
“His mind is exceptionally capable of holding several complicated ideas at once and finding corresponding narratives between them, and I was fascinated by that way of thinking,” Crudup recalls. “I have a friend who has a similar capacity. We went to college together. He finds the delight in it, and I think that’s where I got some of Cory’s delight in it. Like, ‘Oh, my brain just thought of this.’
”
Crudup was never interested in playing Cory as a typical media executive who strives for power or success. That didn’t seem like the right foil against Aniston’s Alex Levy and Reese Witherspoon’s Bradley Jackson. He wanted to create someone against whom the protagonists could fight sincerely, ensuring the story could “meet all of its potential.”
“If he’s a buffoon or if he’s just in service of his own ego or manipulating them, it’s not terribly interesting to me,” Crudup says. “[But] he fits all of the archetypes for someone in that position of power. They let him into the club because he looks like them. He’s successful, he’s straight, he can speak that locker room talk. He uses that as a way of getting in to destabilize it.”
Still, Crudup wasn’t sure about Episode 7, “Strict Scrutiny,” in which Cory tricks Bradley into coming with him to see his mother, Martha (Lindsay Duncan), to convince her to help push through UBA’s intended merger at the Department of Justice. He performs an impromptu rendition of “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough” but ultimately finds himself shamed by his mother, leaving him questioning if he’s a bad person. It required Crudup, who did actually sing in the scene, to rework what he’d imagined about Cory’s bond with Martha.
“It didn’t exactly meet my idea of who she was or what their relationship was,
what kind of caretaker he was,” Crudup says. “You have to go back retroactively and weave that in. It’s a very strange experience. It’s complicated. And especially for someone like Cory, who is already complicated and who is opaque in some ways and doesn’t share a lot of themselves.”
Cory and Harry Clarke are the two fictional people Crudup has spent the longest with in his career. He’s grateful that time has been spent with someone as intriguing as Cory, especially as an actor who describes himself as “someone who’s interested in characters.”
When Aniston first approached him about “The Morning Show,” the offer was openended. He could have played anyone. But Crudup only wanted Cory, recalling that he said, “Yeah, I like that weirdo.”
It was an uphill battle to be cast, despite Aniston advocating for him, but Crudup proved his instincts right when he won the supporting actor in a drama Emmy for the show’s first season.
“I have two brothers, so I am prone to competitive gloating, but what I actually felt was incredibly grateful,” he remembers. “I think my manager and my agent
were like, ‘See, he said he could do it and he did.’
“But you never know how a show is going to turn out. I’ve worked on so many things that I thought were absolutely extraordinary and nobody gave a rat’s ass. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a movie that’s made money. ‘Almost Famous’ lost money. But I have been pleasantly shocked and amused by the success and the staying power of ‘The Morning Show.’ ”
Crudup is currently shooting a role alongside George Clooney in Noah Baumbach’s next film before heading
back to “The Morning Show” set this summer. And like the rest of us, he has no idea what the future holds for Cory. But even that is interesting.
“I think his failure will be processed in the same way he processes learning something new, with delight,” Crudup says. “He does it in the last episode with Bradley when he goes, ‘Well, I’m still the architect of the biggest failed deal of the 21st century.’ And he thinks that’s pretty cool. That energy will carry him forward and give him an opportunity to rise again.”
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Photograph by Shayan AsgharniaFor The Times
Rather, what attracted Rebecca Ferguson to her character on the Apple TV+ series was her fear and vulnerability in the face of danger.
→ Rebecca Ferguson stars as Juliette in the dystopian drama “Silo.”
REBECCA FERGUSON SITS ACROSS FROM ME BEFOREHER photo shoot with The Envelope. Her sandy blond hair is loosely tied back and she’s wearing an oversize comfy flannel shirt with dark trousers. Between us, two laptops — a virtual setting — but the accomplished actor makes it feel as though you are in the room with her. The same can be said for Juliette Nichols, the emotionally conflicted character she portrays in the gripping Apple TV+ dystopian drama “Silo,” where civilization has migrated to a massive underground bunker.
“Her vulnerability was the most important moments for me because the strengths of the character are uninteresting — they are already shaped,” she says. “What I found interesting is why she is uncomfortable with people, why is she scared when people are too close.”
Ferguson, who also serves as an executive producer of “Silo,” found her answer in Juliette’s heartbreaking childhood. At 13, she loses her mother and younger brother before running away from her father (Iain Glen) to the down deep of the bunker to apprentice in the mechanical department. “I studied a lot of grief and trauma because she loses her mom at an early age. When we understand this character, she is very lonely,” says the Swedish native. “Her trauma, it’s nearly claustrophobic and weighs you down, which I tried to embody in her when people get too close. It’s like this injection of fear.”
Juliette’s discomfort around others is put in the spotlight when she’s plucked by the powers that be to fill the role of sheriff following the death of the former top officer (David Oyelowo). She accepts, on the condition that she can fix the failing generator down below before something catastrophic occurs. The sequence that unfolds in the third episode, directed by Morten Tyldum, is a master class in edgeofyourseat drama that culminates in a characterdefining moment — one that sees Juliette standing alone in thought after the successful repair. “There is so much layered in that moment. All these juxtapositions of ‘I need to fix this, but if I fix this, it means I will also have to leave my people, and if I hadn’t fixed it everyone could have died.’ And all the trauma she’s gone through, it’s all compartmentalized into a moment of now what?”
Sheriff Juliette steps in wanting to find the truth behind the death of her boyfriend, George Wilkins, an unsanctioned anthropologist of ancient artifacts — such as a Pez dispenser. “The contrast was so important to find,” Ferguson says of the series showing them in happy times in flashbacks. “For me, it was important to find the quirks and the fear. She is worried about him going on his extravagant journeys because she’s afraid to lose him. There’s this child in her, a vulnerability; her hair is different, her clothes are different, there’s a softness. The dynamics are so
real — we practiced them a lot. Those scenes are the moments that defibrillate another feeling where you can slow your heart rate and you can fall in love with two people.”
As Juliette investigates George’s death, labeled a suicide though she suspects otherwise, she begins to uncover bigger mysteries within the silo and its leadership. “What I love about this show is that the audience is figuring it out with the character,” Ferguson says. “There are secrets and astronomical complexities in this world, but you’re getting to unravel them oneonone with a character who is trying to solve one murder that leads into bigger questions and bigger lies. That’s what’s so exciting.”
When the pressure of the new uniform begins to mount, Juliette contemplates returning home to the depths of mechanical. But longtime friend Walker (Harriet Walter) persuades her otherwise, saying, “Love had you doing the right thing and now anger is making you give up.” Ferguson remembers first reading the scene and thinking it was too sentimental. “Something can read differently on the page, but then we sat down and someone said this is one of the most pivotal, most important moments for Juliette’s
journey. It’s the change in realizing this is not a story just for her selfish needs. This is a moment where it’s about the bigger picture. It’s about doing the right thing. It’s really a beautiful and powerful moment for her.”
When asked if she thought of Juliette as a savior, Ferguson demurs, saying, “I don’t think I was supposed to look at her that way. It would have made her a hero in her journey and that’s not interesting. She doesn’t start off as a hero. She’s powerful and a bit of a badass, but she has vulnerabilities, grief and fear. That’s what’s interesting. Juliette is constantly faced with hinders, and every time she solves something, another hinder, it’s like building a bridge and it falls and you have to build another one and another one. She doesn’t give up.”
JUNO TEMPLE
Actor ‘Fargo’
“FOR ME, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO FIND THE QUIRKS AND THE FEAR.”
Rebecca Ferguson on her “Silo” character
What series past or present would you have liked to be in, and in what role?
“
I had a pretty visceral reaction when I first watched ‘Stranger Things,’ the first season. I would love to be 14 and be able to be in that TV show. I love the combination of the ’80s soundtrack and aliens. But then your best mates too. Maybe I’d be Eleven, right? I’d be any of the kids in that. It really tickled the child in me, that show.
„
Photograph by Yuri Hasegawa For The Times
Actor Carrie Preston thinks she’s cracked the mystery as to why fans love the offbeat lawyerturnedmurder sleuth.
CARRIE PRESTON LIVES TO get a laugh out of the man who helped create the role of her life. So when Robert King was directing the pilot for CBS’ “Elsbeth,” the longoverdue spinoff putting Preston’s Emmywinning, idiosyncratic “The Good Wife” lawyer, Elsbeth Tascioni, front and center as a brilliant, bedeviling murder sleuth, he wanted a crimescene entrance befitting an eccentric. King set up a shot of a sidewalk, dramatically thick with uniformed officers, and Preston poked her head into frame with the timing of a silent film comedian. King’s cackling commenced. “Victory for the day!” recalls Preston, who has coined a name for the fastforming arsenal of kookiness that includes the character’s nowtrademark popup arrival: “Icall them ‘Elsbits.’”
Elsbeth came into our lives early in the run of “The Good Wife.” What do you recall of her origins?
When I got offered the role, Robert said, “We’re thinking about her like a female Columbo.” I knew what he meant, that she would go about things in an unconventional way and people would underestimate her. In that first script, they wrote the word “pause” in parentheses. And I thought, “I’m really interested in what’s going on in that pause. I’m going to fill that in and see if it’s something they find interesting.” So I started digging and figured, maybe she’s thinking one thing, saying another, and her body’s doing a third thing.
It starts to feel like great musical comedy, the timing of it all, the physicality and words.
Oh, thank you. I’m theatertrained, and the classics are very much about rhythm. On our show, there’s a lot of exposition, and it’s our job to make that writing sound fantastic, new and fresh. So those things I map out, because I have to know how her brain is doing all these things and keep it grounded. So it’s not just a woman who appears to be flighty — like there’s something else going on.
Embarking on “Elsbeth,” you must have been excited for what else you’d learn about her.
Absolutely. I’d played her maybe once a year, and I had to really work up to remember the character, because I’d played several other people in between. Now I can breathe my way through the character all day long, and that’s a gift. What is she like in a quiet moment? We didn’t get that [before]. What is she like with a girlfriend? When she talks about family? That’s fun for me.
Is there an origin story for her attraction to the fabrics others are wearing? I don’t know about an origin, but you can understand the tactile thing. She’s so observant and receptive that anything, sensorially, she’s going to respond to.
Do you share her boldness in clothing choices?
I’m not afraid of color. I live in New York City, so I have black clothing; it’s required. But I’ll mix a pattern like Elsbeth. When I was a kid, my mom called it “humor dressing.” Crazy red parachute pants and funky tennis shoes, or an oversized dress. I say put things on your body that make you feel happy.
Elsbeth’s tote bag, the object of so much online speculation. What’s in it?
I’m not telling you! You’ll notice, though, that I’ve made the choice, whenever I do finally catch the criminal, I’m not carrying any bags. Because I decided I don’t need them!
What’s your take on why she’s so popular with viewers?
She’s funny and extremely brilliant, and the fact that she’s so positive and allows herself to be vulnerable. I feel like it’s what audiences are craving right now. The oldschool structure [of the show] is comforting. I really want to bring joy to people, and Elsbeth looks for the good in things. She assumes positive intent, makes friends, and that’s a great role model for all of us.
You mentioned Elsbeth being underestimated. Has it happened to you?
As actors, most of us who have been doing it a long time feel sometimes, “They’re not quite getting that I could do a lead on a TV show.” You hear, “Oh, they’re going for a name.” I’m like, “Well, I’ve been doing this for 30 years. I’m not sure what else you want from me!” But when you’re a character actor, you get lost in the character. And then I realized, “Oh, I have a name. It’s Elsbeth.” This character gave me this incredible opportunity. It’s not lost on me, the significance of it at this age and stage in my life and career.
Ron Howarddirected feature looks at the life and lasting influence of the creator of ‘Sesame Street,’ the Muppets and other classic kids’ TV.
WHEN OSCAR-WINNING
director Ron Howard got word that Disney+ and the late Jim Henson’s children were interested in collaborating on a definitive portrait of the beloved Muppet creator, he immediately welcomed the opportunity. “I had nothing but respect for him,” he says during a recent Zoom interview from his office. “I met him ever so briefly once backstage at a talk show, and my friend George Lucas was a close friend and huge admirer and characterized him as a bona fide genius. Of course, my own relation with Jim Henson’s creations also evolved through my kids and ‘Sesame Street.’ ” ¶ The narrative question that emerged, he says, was: “How in the world did he create such a lasting legacy of work with such a burst of creativity in only a few decades? The dimensions of his output were a complete surprise to me. He was completely in touch with the cultural zeitgeist, and he kept shifting with it — not cynically but very organically with the kind of creative curiosity that I both admired and related to.” ¶ “Jim HensonIdea Man” is a lively and revealing look at the life and career of Henson. The 90minute film, which recently premiered on Disney+, charts his career from his early days as a young puppeteer at a local D.C. TV station to the creation of the “Sesame Street” puppets and “The Muppet Show,” through the growth of the Jim Henson Co. and the Creature Shop and later works “The Dark Crystal” and “Labyrinth.”
How did you end up directing this? We were brainstorming about our next project with [producers] Sarah Bernstein and Justin Wilkes at Imagine Documentaries. We were told that Disney+ was very interested in doing something about Jim Henson, and the family has had reservations over the years, but they’ve liked the documentaries I had done on Pavarotti and the Beatles. So we met with the Hensons, and then about two years ago, we began diving into the material.
There was so much archival footage to go through. Not just great stuff about the Muppets or “Sesame Street” and old interviews with Jim, but also his personal family footage was creative. He just didn’t cover
a birthday party the way the rest of us dads do. He knew he would make a great story out of it, and he would use stopmotion or different creative techniques. He was excited by avantgarde and experimental filmmaking.
Your film features terrific footage of his early work, as well as revealing interviews with his children. You even dug up a fascinating, unaired interview Henson did with Orson Welles. Because the family was on board and sanctioned me getting involved as a director, they were incredibly supportive. ... They were very forthcoming in their interviews about the price of Jim’s creative energy. They’re so proud of and feel privileged to have had him as a dad, but they’re also grownup people who could now say that some aspects of life were challenging and [talk about] the stress that the work put on their parents’ marriage. So we were allowed to really get behind the scenes and understand that there are no free lunches, and you pay a price for everything. I thought it was important to understand his emotions, his insecurities about himself, the childhood events that shaped him and the urgency with which he worked, and to find him in a lot of ways beyond just the brilliant genius level of creativity.
What came as the biggest surprise for you?
I didn’t know that he didn’t really plan to be a puppeteer. He was such a child of television and was fascinated by innovations. ... He wasn’t a guy who got one good idea and rode it to great success: He kept adapting, exploring and was pushing the boundaries of the medium. It was also quite amazing that he kept failing to sell “The Muppet Show,” because you just assume all he had to do was walk through the door with a couple of puppets and people would just fall over themselves to buy the
show. It’s just a reminder that those big, commercial breakthroughs often come from very unexpected places.
Brian Henson talks about how his fatherbelieved in the value of doing good and the interconnectedness of all living things on Earth. Can you elaborate on that?
Jim was on a quest to understand that connection, and it always seems to come back to something I really related to: You can’t know for sure about much of anything except that goodness has value.
What do you hope audiences will take away about Henson’s life and career? I hope they will understand this sort of lasting legacy. I would love it if this makes them go back and review all those “Muppet Show” episodes. That’s time well spent because they’re hilarious. In Jim’s case, it’s really much more a celebration of how to lead a creative life and how to solve problems with openness and an excitement for what’s possible. I hope people take that inspiration from Jim’s life along with just really being blown away by the range and level of his achievements.
Filming conditions were tough at times, but Aaron Moten, Walton Goggins and Ella Purnell say their Prime Video series went off with a bang.
IF YOU THOUGHT “FALLOUT,” THIS YEAR’S SMASH TV video game adaptation, would just capitalize on the success of 2023’s “The Last of Us,” you’re in for a fun, funny, socially conscious surprise. ¶ The Prime Video series, overseen by HBO’s “Westworld” cocreator and “The Dark Knight” screenwriter Jonathan Nolan, launches from Bethesda Softworks’ roleplaying franchise concept of a future yet 1950s retro society destroyed in minutes by a nuclear war. The surface is still a wasteland 219 years later, but the descendants of wealthy survivors have flourished in isolated, luxury bunkers built by the VaultTec Corp. ¶ In the show’s opener, chipper, capable but otherwise unprepared Lucy (“Yellowjackets’” Ella Purnell) leaves her vault to rescue her kidnapped father. In the sandblasted remains of Los Angeles, she encounters the grotesque, eatorbeeaten reality of the remaining havenots. Key among her new companions are Maximus (Aaron Moten, “Emancipation”), a squire in the militaristic Brotherhood of Steel who’s illegally appropriated a knight’s power armor suit; and the Ghoul (Emmynominated “Justified” actor Walton Goggins), a wicked, decaying bounty hunter kept alive by drugs for centuries, whom we see in prewar flashbacks as the goodguy cowboy actor Cooper Howard. ¶ With their Southern manners intact, Austinborn, Juilliardtrained Moten flew in to L.A. from his home in Iceland and Georgiabred Goggins arrived from the Thailand set of “The White Lotus” Season 3 to join Londonborn Purnell to talk to The Envelope. None of them played “Fallout” games before the show, and only Purnell has done so since. Badly, she says.
How was filming part of postapocalyptic L.A. in an African desert?
ELLA PURNELL Namibia was beautiful, the scenery is incredible. But we were really up against the elements. In New York, it was incredibly hot and then incredibly cold. In Namibia, sandstorms! The scene where I come out of the vault and am talking to the farmer, there was this crazy sandstorm and so much sand was getting in my eyes that I was crying all the way through. Jonah [Jonathan Nolan] was like, “This isn’t an emotional scene, you can pull back.”
What was the Ghoul makeup ordeal like?
WALTON GOGGINS Five hours in the chair was challenging out of the gate, but then it becomes the new normal. There is a meditation and a concentration involved with beginning every day spending that amount of time in the chair and going into that headspace.
But when I say it was hot, it was extremely hot. I didn’t anticipate how fatigued I would be. I’m not one to complain, but the very first day, sitting on a
log by myself, I thought, “Man, I don’t think you can do this. You’re not that young anymore.”
How about you, Aaron? There were practical versions of Maximus’ power armor that you wore, correct? AARON MOTEN There were several aspects of the suit. One we called the “clamshell” that can’t move, but the back of it opens up so you can step into it. Then there is the top half; it’s about 50 pounds. You feel like a weird metal gorilla walking
around in that thing. The motorized helmet is part of the weight that gets added to it, there’s a battery element.
Any time you see the full suit in motion, it’s Adam Shippey, whom I call our stunt extremist. That suit is 100 poundsplus. In between takes, we’d find ways to prop each other up because again, when you’re not a complainer, you are suffering a lot, barely able to breathe because of the weight.
And toughest for you, Ella?
PURNELL I did a lot of fight training and all, but I think I speak for all of us when I say it was f— fun! For all of the challenges, for all of the insane torture scenes, the weather ... it was so fun. And I did so many gross things on this show! I mean, biting off the Ghoul’s finger and spitting it out; let me tell you why that was gross. We only had one finger and we were trying to get that shot before the sun went down over a building. We filmed fast, no rehearsal; me and Walt and trust and communicating. I was probably biting your actual finger a
little too hard — I’m still sorry for that — then they’d put the fake finger in my mouth and I’d spit it on the ground and stomp on it. Then you’d pick it up, dunk it in some water and put it back in my mouth. We’d do that over and over again. By the end you’ve got sand, you’ve got sticky blood, my harness is still on, and your finger’s probably bleeding from me biting it.
One thing “Fallout” has that most dystopian shows don’t is a sense of humor.
↓ Ella Purnell stars as Lucy in the video game adaptation “Fallout,”
GOGGINS That’s built into the DNA of the property itself. “Fallout,” the game, has this subversive, satirical humor. There’s an audience that had to be expecting a version of that.
PURNELL I like the tone of the show. I don’t love watching postapocalyptic stuff because it’s depressing and it stays with me for months. I work very hard to maintain a positive outlook, and I try not to indulge myself in catastrophic thinking. But I will say that humans always find a way to survive, and one way we survive is by using humor as a coping mechanism.
Anything else about the show’s metaphorical commentary?
MOTEN This Eisenhowery on steroids, prewar future world is removed enough from our reality, with parallels, so that we
can see ourselves outside of it but also in it. By watching that world go through what they go through is, for us, to send ourselves there so that we don’t [actually] do it.
GOGGINS This isn’t the first time this has been done. In the last decade, it’s been done maybe more than ever before in the history of this medium, [the theme of] naivete, and morality is a morality of convenience. We live in a bubble. There is that experience for the 0.5% or the 1% or the 10%, however you break that down, and then there’s the reality that everyone else lives with.
If you can take this topic, this reality of the world for so many people on both sides of it, and make it palatable, then you’re doing a service to the community that watches your show.
All of your characters go through eyeopening journeys and major moral evolutions. How did each of you approach their development?
MOTEN The most challenging aspect of Maximus is that he really is a heroic person that we see glimpses of, but he’s at war within himself. He’s just as brave as he is terrified of this world in which he exists. I felt like this was an opportunity to
show a side of masculinity that doesn’t get portrayed often on film.
PURNELL It was reiterated to me time and again that Lucy is our introduction to this world, and there’s a lot of pressure being the good guy. OK, she’s good, she’s morally righteous, but how do you play that and play this relentless optimism? Y’know, she’s incredibly privileged and quite not selfaware, especially at the beginning of the show. That can definitely come across as annoying and it can lose people quickly. Somewhere in the back of my mind was I could be too unaware, too privileged, hitting my “okey dokeys” a little too hard. You have to break that character down just to let her build herself up as herself and not a product of VaultTec. Which is why her relationship with the Ghoul is so crucial.
And I guess the key question for you is, how much,if any,of innocent, decent Cooper Howard still exists in the cynical, cruel Ghoul?
GOGGINS The biggest challenge was how to get these two people to speak to each other over time. Not just make a decision about that from an esoteric point of view, but practicallythe same person at very different points in his life. How are they similar and how are they different?
You have to understand Cooper Howard in order to understand the Ghoul. You have to see everything that he had to understand everything that he’s lost.
I also truly believe that his journey isn’t solitary. It is meant to be, in some ways, a metaphor for what the world lost. It is through Cooper Howard’s eyes that you see what life was like before the bombs were dropped. It’s not just his experience, but it’s the world that was fallen.
TO MAINSTREAM SUCCESS HAS TO START SOMEWHERE— IT COULD BE A small role on an episode of “Quantum Leap” circa 1991 or a single line in a CW drama that gets left on the cuttingroom floor. ¶ During the recent Envelope Drama Roundtable, actors Maya Erskine, Giancarlo Esposito, Jess Hong, Carrie Preston, Amy Ryan and Morgan Spector flashed back to the twinge of nerves and selfdoubt in those early years when the seemingly small roles, approached with total commitment, set their foundation — even if things didn’t always go smoothly on set. ¶ “I was cut from it,” Erskine says of her first time on a set. “It was ‘Hart of Dixie’ on [The] CW. I just had one line that was like, ‘Is this seat taken?’ And I swear to you — have any of you seen ‘The Comeback’ where Lisa Kudrow runs her line over and over throughout 24 hours? That’s what I did on Photo Booth. All night, [I] was like, ‘You gonna take that seat?’ I kept doing it, and then on the day [of shooting], I blanked. It was this huge machine that you’re just this tiny part of and I was like, ‘Oh, so there’s no rehearsal? We don’t do this, figure it out together? You just show up?’ And they cut it.” ¶ Still, the experience can leave a lasting impact, said Ryan, who arrived to the “Quantum Leap” set brighteyed with uncertainty. ¶ “I didn’t know what I was doing, but I was so excited to be on television,” she said. “If I could tell my younger self, I’d say, ‘It’s OK to ask a question. There are no dumb questions.’ I didn’t know that. I didn’t know what a mark was, I didn’t know what a boom was. I didn’t know that you’re not supposed to overlap, but this gorgeous woman, she leaned [in] and she whispered, ‘That’s your mark.’ She gave me all the ropes of the day, and I’m very grateful to her.” ¶ The conversation on a late April day was as wideranging as the roles the actors brought to the screen this season: Erskine, a jaded millennial spy in “Mr. & Mrs. Smith”; Ryan, a former rock singer and the stepmother of a missing young girl on neonoir drama “Sugar”; Esposito, a desperate man who becomes a driver for the mob in New Orleans in “Parish,” as well as the obscenely rich and hyperarticulate drug baron in “The Gentlemen”; Hong, a brilliant young physicist in science fiction epic “3 Body Problem”; Spector, a railroad tycoon who rules 19th century New York City in “The Gilded Age”; and Preston, a quirkylawyer with a knack for sleuthing in “Elsbeth.”
Their conversation here has been edited for length and clarity.
on the spot—but that you requested or suggested that your character fart in the show?
ERSKINE It’s such a beautiful story. Well, to be fair, they were describing to me a scene where Donald’s character would fart. It was all about all the inbetween moments in relationships that you don’t see a lot on TV. So, the first time someone farts in a relationship — what is that like? And what does that vulnerability do to the relationship? And I was like, “Can my character do that instead? Because I feel like that’s something I relate to.” I want to see what that would do to us. How would that make him react? How would that make her feel more exposed? And would it help them fall more in love? They were like, “Yeah, OK. You can fart.”
MORGAN SPECTOR I feel like that scene where she farts and then he covers for her by going outside and looking as if something dangerous may have happened — that was the scene where I was like, “Oh, this show’s the s—. This show is up to something.” It was so great. It was funny. Have you suggested your own kind of details like that in any character you’ve played?
Go online at latimes.com/ envelope for the video coverage of this conversation or tune in to Spectrum News 1, where it will air throughout the month.
SPECTOR I really am the kind of actor who likes to show up and just do what I’m told. I’m very much creatively kind of a bottom, so not really. I think that’s kind of what I’m in it for. “Please tell me what to do and just let me obey.”
GIANCARLO ESPOSITO I like to pay attention to a lot of the details. I feel like it feeds me when I’ve created a bit of a backstory, detailwise, for the character. They’re little clues for me. Those small things oftentimes help me because I play a lot of characters without a lot of words some
times. So to me, those become really important, they fill in the gap of what the writer has maybe written in the stage direction but hasn’t written in the dialogue. On “Breaking Bad,” I had an elevator scene and I realized I had played this character in a formidable way. You never saw a chink in his armor. And I wanted so desperately to show that he was human and not a robot, you know?
[With the] elevator scene, it was quite chilling. My emotion was completely stonefaced and the elevator door closes, and I started to do one little thing, [tapping] my finger. My hands were at my side, just to see if the director would notice. It was for me, because it allowed me, internally, to release some energy that was feeding this idea that, finally, [Gus] was nervous. That something was gonna happen to him, and the director came in and he said, “I see that you are doing something with your hand.” And I said, “Oh, you noticed that, did you?” And he said, “Yes, I want to go down there [with the camera] and get it.” I said, “You go down there and you get it, baby.”
Carrie, Elsbeth Tascionimakes her debut in “The Good Wife” at the end of the first season, in a threeminute scene. And she developed into this fanfavorite character. How has it been leaning into her as a lead character?
CARRIE PRESTON At first, I got nervous because I was like, “Oh, no, wait, wait. I’m the side dish. I’m the funny one. I’m the quirky thing. ... They’re gonna get tired of me.” That was the fear; it’s like, “It’s gonna be too much.” And then it was, “No, I just have to show up and try to solve the scene. Each day, there’s just more scenes.” And then also just giving myself permission to let the character evolve and not feel like I have to recreate something that I already did. It’s a police procedural, so it is a drama with this circus dropped down into the middle of it, which is my character. That’s fun too, because I’m able to live and breathe in it a little more. I have been able to do a lot more of a dramatic, poignant — just a deeper dive with her that was not what I was being hired to do in those other shows.
So many of you started your careers on the stage. What excites you about each way of acting? Onstage, a character lives for a few hours a night. On TV, you have a character that develops over a season, sometimes multiple seasons.
SPECTOR I guess the thing about theater that I really love is that you do this whole process, and then at the end, they give it to you and you get to go out and try to, over the course of however many nights you
1 Donald Glover and Maya Erskine in “Mr. & Mrs. Smith.”
2 Carra Patterson, left, Carrie Preston and Wendell Pierce in “Elsbeth.”
3 Giancarlo Esposito in AMC’s “Parish.”
get to play it, you get to just keep digging into it and get to keep trying to perfect it. You can have a down night. I feel like it’s a little bit more like being an athlete in some way; you can have a night where you’re, “Oh, I didn’t have it tonight.” And the next day, you come back and redeem yourself in some way. With TV and film, you have a down day, you’re like, “Oh, there it is. I got to look at that for the rest of my life. I guess I should have gotten more sleep or whatever.” The thing I have learned to love about working on camera is that you really can find these little things that you don’t know where they come from, or just a little way of getting through a scene that maybe you couldn’t have thought of, but it has this energy, or a thought occurred to you in a moment and you get it. And you couldn’t probably do it again if your life depended on it. There’s an intuitive thing that’s happened, and it makes the moment work, it makes a scene work. You can’t keep that on the stage in the same way.
AMY RYAN There’s this agreement with 1,000 people, or however big your audience is, these strangers in the dark that happens [onstage], and it does affect you. Once you settle into your own, there’s this conversation, or how you’re moving them. “Doubt” had really great comic moments, and then as the actors onstage, we knew, like, “Oh, just you wait, here comes this next.” You can feel the silence just wash over. I’ve never experienced that on film or TV.
ESPOSITO It’s a shared energy that you feel from the audience. It’s palpable. It’s something that can’t be stopped. Once the show starts, you’re either on the train or you’re off it.
RYAN I feel like the closest [to that experience] on film — I love when they put up two cameras and do coverage [of both actors] at the same time. Because then I’m like, “OK, we’re in this together, right?”
ERSKINE Can I ask a question? Has anyone ever had an actor — not to call out anyone — but had an actor, once it wasn’t their coverage, totally turn off?
ESPOSITO I’ve had an actor leave.
SPECTOR I’ve had actors put their standins in.
ESPOSITO Yeah, just say, “I’m gonna see you.” And I was there for their side, and they just leave on my side. And at that time, I was a less established actor and didn’t feel like I could ask. I’ve since learned that really respectful actors, truly respectful actors say, “Would you like me to stay?” I never ask to leave because there will be an imbalance on each side. It’s weird when that does happen because I try to say, “Well, by you not being there, that affects my performanceand will eventually, in turn, reflect on yours.”
Maya, it feels like you asked because— ERSKINE Because I have a famous story in my head of someone having a standin once, and I think it was a big actor, and the standin would just go, “Peas and carrots, peas and carrots, peas and carrots.” And wouldn’t say the line even.
JESS HONG I didn’t have peas and carrots, but I did have someone [stand] in for the emotional closeup. This actor was tired and went away for a nap, so the third assistant director, who was lovely but a totally different vibe, [stepped in]. She’s like, northern English and is just reading out these lines that are supposed to be
really tender. It was sweet. She did try.
Jess, before “3 Body Problem,” you were doing kids’theater in New Zealand. Tell me about getting that call, “You’re gonna be on the show from the creators of ‘Game of Thrones.’” How did that prep you for doing work in front of a blue screen?
HONG Nothing can prepare me for that. They don’t have that class in drama school. Yeah, so I was on this yearlong tour with this charity, Duffy Books in Homes, and we went to underprivileged schools around the country. So I went to some of the most
beautiful parts of New Zealand. I got to see places that I never would have seen, very spiritually fulfilling. Age 5 to 12yearold kids. For some of them, they’ve never seen theater, they have no idea.
What was great was that having that job, which was incredibly nourishing for my soul and a great distraction from that call, meant that I wasn’t so caught up in, “Oh, I really hope this happens. I really want this.” I wasn’t thinking so intensely about that. Then I go into cold London [to shoot “3 Body Problem”]. I don’t see sun for 10 months, I go straight into studio stuff. Nothing can really prepare you for walking onto a soundstage. I’ve never worked on a soundstage before.
Walking into a giant warehouse, and there’s hundreds of people there, and they all know my name. “Hey, Jess. Morning, Jess.” And I’m like, “I haven’t met any of you. OK, cool.” All eyes [are] on you, so you do feel that pressure spike up: “I have to do well, but I can’t just do well, I can’t just do the perfect thing, I have to be free. How do I be free inside this very structured space?” That was a real learning curve, trying to figure out how to find spontaneity and that spark even though you have to match the exact same thing and move your hand like this [demonstrates] at that time because that’s what matches the wide shot.
Last year will be remembered as a critical turning point in Hollywood because of the dual strikes we saw from writers and actors. How will you remember that period of time?
RYAN AI scares the bejeezus out of me, and I know it’s probably too late in so many ways, but when that happens, I’m like, “I’m out.” I’m gonna find something else to do. I don’t want to be replaced by [a digital double]. But too many people were hurt.
Did it make you more conscious of the business particulars or the fine print?
So often you just want to focus on the creative, but it feels like now more than ever we need to pay close attention to the business side of things.
SPECTOR I am sort of interested in the business stuff anyway, just because I feel like it drives a lot of what ends up happening with us. Like you were saying, [Amy, people think], “Oh, precious actors, what are they whining about?” But I feel like we had public support really solidly throughout, partly because I think unions are more popular than they’ve ever been. Everybody’s realizing how unequal and unfair our economic moment is. And that if they don’t have the power to negotiate collectively, if they don’t have solidarity, they’re going to get screwed, and I think everybody kind of saw the actors’ and writers’strikes, really, as a kind of inspiring thing.
1 Jess Hong as Jin Cheng in Netflix’s “3 Body Problem.”
2 Morgan Spector, center, in Max’s “The Gilded Age.”
3 Amy Ryan and Colin Farrell in Apple TV+’s “Sugar.”
Actor Benedict Wong was ‘all gangstered out.’ So he started representing himself and landed in the Marvel universe.
IN MARCH, AT THE AFTERPARTY FOR THE PREMIERE OF “3 Body Problem” at the South by SouthwestFilm Festival in Austin, Benedict Wong assumed his alter ego. The English actor, known for playing stoic but sly tough guys, morphed into DJ ObiWong, spinning electronic dance records, a wide smile on his face and a sleek virtual reality headset (actually a “3 Body” prop)perched on his head. He was clearly having a blast. ¶ He has earned it. A little more than 10 years ago, Wong was wondering if he still had a career. He had lived on a diet of nondescript Asian background players and generic gangsters. He loved the theater, but it wasn’t paying the bills. He felt like his agents weren’t earning their keep. Today, he’s all over the Marvel Cinematic Universe as a mystic teacher (alsonamed Wong) and playing a bloodhoundlike detective in “3 Body Problem,” Netflix’s mindbending scifi series. He’s become a welcome presence as a character actor in such movies as “The Martian” and “Annihilation,” and on the droll vampire series “What We Do in the Shadows.” He now represents himself, and he’s about to start his own production company, Big Boss Panda.
He’s feeling grateful. “The journey I’ve had, it’s some sort of Asian actor ‘Forrest Gump’ story,” he said in a recent video interview from his London home. “Forces can try and derail you and become an obstacle for you not to succeed. But they just become stepping stones. I feel like the luckiest man alive.”
Wong, 52, is blunt but happily digressive, playful but quite serious. He may feel lucky, but he was never given anything.
He grew up a workingclass kid outside Manchester, the son of Hong Kong immigrants who ran fishandchips shops. “It was its own cage for me, because that’s all I knew,” he said. “I kind of wanted to see the outside world.”
He found escapes, taking in Manchester clubs such as the Hacienda, immortalized in the 2002 film “24 Hour Party People” (the future DJ ObiWong was taking notes). He swept floors at a fringe theater company, sneaked into other theaters around town and caught the acting bug, unable to afford drama school but eager to audition. He joined an actors’ coop and
informed his father of his new career plans. His dad wanted him to get a real job. “I told him to give methree years, and if it didn’t work out I’d do whatever he said,” Wong recalled. “It was that kind of dutiful Asian fatherson relationship.”
Wong acted steadily, if not always to great personal or financial reward. He preferred good stage roles to lesser screen roles. On the screen, “I literally played six gangsters in one year. I turned the seventh
one down, being all gangstered out. I do have my inner gangster chakra, but you don’t want to play that all the time.” Better parts would trickle in — Stephen Frears’ “Dirty Pretty Things” (2002), Danny Boyle’s “Sunshine” (2007). But the going was slow. Wong felt typecast. He’s a big guy, and he has the demeanor of someone familiar with the streets, but he knew he could do more with such qualities.
“There were months where it was just quite souldestroying,” he said. “And then somehow the universe aligns and throws you a lifeline.”
One of those lifelines was “Doctor Strange” (2016). Wong’s friend and “Dirty Pretty Things” castmate Chiwetel Ejiofor had signed on for “Strange” and told Wong, the actor, about Wong, the character. His first thought: “My luck is in. Come on, I must claim this by birthright, by name alone.” He was his own agent by then, and he got the part, which also meant a foothold in other Marvel projects, including “Avengers: Infinity War” (2018) and “SpiderMan: No Way Home” (2021).
When “3 Body Problem” creators D.B. Weiss, David Benioff and Alexander Woo decided to adapt Cixin Liu’s scifi novel trilogy into a series, they knew immediately whom they wanted to play the enigmatic detective Da Shi.
“Benny was our first and only choice,” the trio said in a joint email. “When we read the books, he was who we imagined, and when we wrote the scripts, he was who we imagined. Yet it wasn’t until we watched him reading his lines for the first time that we truly experienced how fully he embodies that character. He brings a humanity and wit to Da Shi that makes him endlessly watchable. Our show wouldn’t be nearly the same without him.”
“I just keep looking for this exponential curve,” said the soontobe Big Boss Panda. “Onwards and upwards. If it plateaus sometimes, you just have to keep moving.”
The Contenders Actor Story by Chris Vognar ■Alex Gibney wanted his film following the singersongwriter as he makes new music to feel as unobtrusive and spontaneous as possible.
IPhotograph by Justin Jun LeeFor The Times
↓ Simon, left, and Garfunkel. Alex Gibney, opposite.
N RESTLESS DREAMS: THE Music of Paul Simon,” Alex Gibney’s 3½hour documentary about singersongwriter Paul Simon — streaming in two parts on MGM+ — takes its title from a line in “The Sound of Silence,” the 1964 song that would make Simon and his performing partner, Art Garfunkel, household names. The lyric also suggests something about the approach Gibney, a muchlauded documentarian whose films have won an Academy Award and multiple Emmys, takes in this exploration of Simon’s career and the making of his 2023 album, “Seven Psalms.”
The hook is undeniable. In 2021, Gibney brings a minimal crew into Simon’s cabin studio at his home in Wimberley, Texas, to capture the brainstorming and recording of a suite of new songs. The filmmaker, whose 2015 documentary “Frank Sinatra: All or Nothing at All” impressed Simon, had already been discussing a project with him when the offer came.
“We first met in the back of a small restaurant in Austin, Texas,” Gibney recalled. “I made the mistake of wearing a Boston Red Sox hat. But I think we got past that, anyway.” Later, the men broke the ice in an appropriate fashion. “We played catch, I think the first day. … He’s got a good lefty delivery. I just started
hangingout as he was kind of working through stuff.”
The intimate segments spiral off from conversational cues into a lifetime of memories: Simon’s and those of an American pop consciousness he’s helped to shape since 1957, when “Hey, Schoolgirl,” recorded with Garfunkel under the name Tom & Jerry, became a hit for the two Queens, N.Y., teenagers.
“We were kind of free associating,” Gibney said, in a recent conversation from his home in coastal Maine. “There was a lot about Paul’s songwriting method which is purposefully mindful, in the sense that you don’t preedit too much. You let things flow, whether it’s a tune or phrases that you’ve heard that you like and you’re not quite sure how they fit. In the editing, we wanted to free associate that way too. We didn’t want to be too rigid. We wanted to see what comes up.”
The filmmaker had access to Simon’s archives and enjoyed a perhaps surprising degree of elbow room in his close encounters with the performer, now 82, who’s grappling with the neartotal loss of hearing in his left ear even as his new lyrics deal with questions of faith and mortality. “As Wynton said, you know, keep the struggle in there,” Gibney said, referring to jazz artist Wynton Marsalis, who along with Simon’s wife, Texas singersongwriter Edie Brickell, lends aural support in the studio. “I think [Simon] reckoned with that. In other words, that maybe this was meant to happen, and it became part of the creative process.”
Gibney’s own process was aided a great deal by uncovering a wealth of unseen material — from Simon’s vault and elsewhere — that made decades of musicmaking feel immediate to the eye and ear. “Paul was a pretty good archivist,” he said. The footage illuminates all sorts of moments. There’s innovative recording engineer Roy Halee accidentally creating the double drum hits at the end of “Bridge Over Troubled Water,” in an outtake from “Simon and Garfunkel: Songs of America,” a 1969 TV special that marks a rare direc
torial credit for actor Charles Grodin.
There are also new angles on famous concerts, such as Simon performing in Zimbabwe with the extraordinary group of South African musicians that made “Graceland,” compelled by a roaring crowd to play “You Can Call Me Al” twice in a row. A favorite for Gibney is an audiocassette message with an early version of “Kathy’s Song,” recorded for its muse, Simon’s English girlfriend Kathy Chitty. “I mean, talking about being dreamlike.You feel like you’re experiencing a memory,” he said, “as if it’s floating through your head.”
Working toward such a vibe was, for film editor Andy Grieve, both refreshing and a challenge. The documentary avoids the array of talking heads common to nearly every musical biography and skips a lot of obvious jukebox choices, all the better to get at something essential as chronological “then” and “now” coexist.
“We definitely tried to blur the lines,” Grieve said. “I feel like we were able to treat the past as new revelations, where it doesn’t feel like you’re going over something you’ve seen and heard a million times. Where it’s digging to a deeper level. We were trying to stay away from having to check off the boxes of the Wikipedia page.”
Gibney, whose musical subjects have included James Brown, cites one film in particular as his “North Star” for music docs: “Gimme Shelter,” the 1970 Rolling Stones documentary by the Maysles Brothers and Charlotte Zwerin, the editor who, he said, “turned a vérité movie about the Stones into a murder mystery that was also an exploration of the changing of an era.”
The film impressed with its sense of discovery, Gibney continues, something the studio encounters of “In Restless Dreams” might call to mind, as Simon strives to spark a little magic.
“There’s a sequence in [“Shelter”] where … you’re watching the Stones listening to the playback of ‘Wild Horses,’” he said. “Turns out there’s something very poignant about watching people listening. Who knew? That’s a moment of discovery.”
For The Times
David Benioff, D.B. Weiss and Alexander Woo discuss twist and turns of adapting the hit Chinese scifi novel.
AFTER SIGNING A $200million deal with Netflix, “Game of Thrones” showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss could have made just about any series they wanted. What they wanted was author Cixin Liu’s 2008 scifi novel “The ThreeBody Problem.” Translated into more than 20 languages and with 9 million copies sold, it’s the most widely read Chinese book in modern Chinese history. The first of its kind to win scifi’s prestigious Hugo Award, it counts among its fans Barack Obama, George R.R. Martin and filmmaker Rian Johnson (“Knives Out”).
“The books attracted lots of attention over time,” notes Weiss, who, along with Benioff and “True Blood” producer Alexander Woo, is a “3 Body Problem” showrunner. “When Dave and I went to Netflix, they were already in talks with an Alist film director [Johnson]. It just so happened he was somebody we’d been friends with for many years. He had his own film franchise he created out of thin air and was happy to hand [“3 Body Problem”] off to us and gave us excellent input throughout.”
↓ Actor Jess Hong as Jin Cheng in “3 Body Problem.”
In the story, hostile aliens are on their way but won’t arrive for another 400 years. A rash of suicides among top scientists spurs a London detective (Benedict Wong) to investigate a clan of researchers at Cambridge University. A mysterious video game driven by technology beyond
human capability becomes central to the mystery, until it’s not.
With a blinking universe, an eye in the sky and an oil tanker sliced like deli meat, the eightpart series varies from the novel in significant ways. The action has been moved from China to London, the gender of a character has been switched, and a racially diverse cast portrays what were previously all Chinese characters.
Netflix is not available in China, but some viewers there access it through private networks. Many on Chinese social media say the diverse cast is a symptom of political correctness and that other changes have the West racing to solve a problem triggered in China. State media said the series promotes “American cultural hegemony” under the guise of diversity. All seem to overlook the fact that Netflix owns only the Englishlanguage rights to the material. To remain strictly faithful to it would have meant a Chinese cast speaking in English.
“If it’s a global crisis, then it would be good to represent everyone on the planet coming together, or not coming together, to confront the situation,” suggests Woo. “That’s what led to the idea of globalizing the cast. And when we spoke to the author, he was already steps ahead of us. He figured we would do that and gave us his blessing.”
Another change was opening the series with a 1966 struggle session during the infamous Cultural Revolution, a bleak period in Chinese history in which intellectuals and “antirevolutionaries” were subjected to public humiliation and abuse, sometimes ending in death. Originally it was the book’s first chapter, but heeding advice from his publisher, the author moved it to soften its impact with censors.
To get the details of the scene right, the showrunners studied what type of propaganda posters would hang in the background and the size and shade of Mao’s Little Red Book, which the mob waves in unison. “It was lots of reviewing old photographs and speaking to people who were alive at the time,” says Benioff. “Television is a team sport. A lot of time was spent in long, boring meetings, hours and hours of
conversation with all the different department heads.”
One head they didn’t meet with was the boss of Yoozoo Group, the Chinese firm that owns the rights to “Remembrance of Earth’s Past,” the “ThreeBody” trilogy. Lin Qi, a brash gaming entrepreneur, was hospitalized in December 2020 for mercury poisoning and a neurotoxin similar to the kind found in puffer fish. He died on Christmas Day. Police arrested Xu Yao, a former chief executive of an affiliate of Yoozoo called the ThreeBody Universe, dedicated to developing film and TV
adaptations of the novel. Xu reportedly received a death sentence.
According to Benioff, Rian Johnson had drinks with the killer and his victim. Weiss confirmed that he sent a photo of them together in France. “A person we did work with extensively was poisoned, but he survived. I think it was mercury poison,” Woo said, adding that it took the victim more than a year to recover.
A bigger impact on the show wasn’t the skulduggery surrounding it but the pandemic. “These books were written in a more optimistic time of international relations,
↑ David Benioff, left, D.B. Weiss and Alexander Woo teamed up to adapt Cixin Liu’s hit scifi novel into a Netflix series.
before the COVID pandemic when our species really was confronted by a danger that affects all of us. And we didn’t come together in any significant way,” Benioff glumly notes. “It was a pretty shoddy showing. The most optimistic view of humanity would say that was a Cminus effort from us.”
While acknowledging science’s impressive ability to quickly produce a vaccine, he feels the government failed. “A lot of people just disputed the science. Period. That was interesting to us. Seeing the global reaction to events, skepticism to science and how that’s grown in the past
few years, was eyeopening. And it definitely informed the writing of the show.”
The three announced late last month that there will be a second — and third — season of the series, which they began prepping in the spring. “The ending of the [book] series is a very beautiful and hopeful ending that I never saw coming,” Benioff says. “And that was sort of miraculous the way he pulled all of it together into this beautiful final image. I’m so hopeful we get there, because to me it’s one of the great endings to one of the super ambitious and great sagas ever.”
Donald Glover p 47
On Writing p 48
Gold Standard p 50
Watching the wealthy p 52
20 Years Back p 56
Illustration by María Medem For The Times
The premise of a stranger in a strange land has been used to great tensioncreating effect in some of this season’s top dramas.
FISH-OUT-OF-WATER SETups have generated laughs for at least seven centuries, when Chaucer mentioned “Fish that is waterless” in the introduction to “The Canterbury Tales.” In the modern era, TV sitcoms from “The Beverly Hillbillies” to “Fresh Off the Boat” and “Ted Lasso” have played the clueless outsider card to great comedic effect. This Emmy season, dramas — both limited and ongoing — pushed those awkward scenarios to darker purposes by parachuting Englishspeaking characters into foreign countries. Besides offering up beautiful locales, these series’ interloping protagonists spark cultureclash narratives brimming with refreshingly diverse casts. ¶ Here’s a snapshot of four recent shows that extract maximum drama from the misadventures of strangers in a strange land.
‘SHŌGUN’
FX / HULU
Adapted from James Clavell’s 1970 bestseller by Justin Marks and Rachel Kondo, the story takes place in feudal Japan circa 1590.
THE STRANGER HAILS FROM England
WHY HE’S IN JAPAN Ship’s pilot John Blackthorne (Cosmo Jarvis) accidentally winds up in Japan after his stormbattered ship washes up on shore.
SPEAKS THE LANGUAGE? No. The language barrier yields comic relief each time Blackthorne spews AngloSaxon obscenities at his uncomprehending Japanese captors, as when he calls one adversary “a sniveling little s—bag.” Blackthorne’s ignorance of the language and customs serves a dramatic purpose as he forges a special bond with his translator, Lady Mariko (Anna Sawai).
FOREIGN CONCEPT The Eightfold Fence. As explained by Mariko to the hotheaded Blackthorne, women are conditioned to conceal their true feelings behind an impenetrable barrier. Black
thorne’s consort Usami Fuji (Moeka Hoshi), for example, sheds no visible tears after her husband and infant child are killed for “family honor” reasons by a warlord.
‘TOKYO VICE’
MAX
Based on Jake Adelstein’s 2009 memoir, “Tokyo Vice: An American Reporter on the Police Beat in Japan,” and executive produced by “Miami Vice” creator Michael Mann, the series was filmed on location in Japan’s capital city.
THE STRANGER HAILS FROM Missouri WHY HE’S IN TOKYO Conspicuously tall and white, newspaper reporter Jake (Ansel Elgort) has relocated to Japan driven by his fascination with the culture in general and Yakuza organized crime gangs in particular.
SPEAKS THE LANGUAGE? Yes. Elgort studied Japanese four hours a day for a month until he became fluent enough to improvise dialogue.
FOREIGN CONCEPT Hostess clubs. These night spots are patronized by men who pay fully dressed women to converse, flirt and drink.
LOCAL COLOR Scooters and noodle shops abound day and night in a city that apparently never sleeps. And tattoos play a starring role in the Yakuza subculture, showcased when criminals with bodies inked from head to toe gather in a public bathhouse to kill their psychotic leader.
IN OVER HIS HEAD Jake carries on a secret
affair with the mistress of a sadistic Yakuza crime boss.
‘MONSIEUR SPADE’ AMC
Catching up with Dashiell Hammett’s famously worldweary detective two decades after his “Maltese Falcon” heyday, cocreators Scott Frank and Tom Fontana imagine Sam Spade (Clive Owen) living quietly in the South of France.
THE STRANGER HAILS FROM San Francisco
WHY HE’S IN FRANCE Spade in 1955 delivers precocious orphan Teresa (Ella Feraud) to the village of Bozouls. There, he falls in love and marries a beautiful vineyard owner, Gabrielle (Chiara Mastroianni), settling into a life of comfort on her estate while keeping a curmudgeonly distance from the locals.
SPEAKS THE LANGUAGE? Non, although he can manage to introduce himself in French: “Je m’apelle Sam Spade.”
LOCAL COLOR Filmed on location in the South of France, “Spade” contrasts sundappled country vistas with ancient Bozouls’ dark, narrow streets.
PROVINCIAL ANTAGONISTS Spade comes out of retirement in 1963 after murderers assault the local convent where Teresa has been living. Half a dozen shadowy characters try and fail to intimidate the deadpan detective, who ingratiates himself to nobody in town except lounge owner Marguerite (Louise Bourgoin). Even the chief of police, Patrice Michaud (Den
THIS EMMY SEASON, DRAMASPUSHED THOSE AWKWARD SCENARIOS TO DARKER PURPOSES BY PARACHUTING ENGLISHSPEAKING CHARACTERS INTO FOREIGN COUNTRIES.
is Ménochet), warns the wisecracking Spade, “You might want to protect yourself with something more reliable than just your wits.”
Inspired by Janice Y.K. Lee’s novel “The Expatriates,” series creator Lulu Wang (“The Farewell”) explores grief, guilt and motherhood through the lives of three women temporarily residing in Hong Kong.
THE STRANGERS HAIL FROM New York and L.A.
WHY HONG KONG Nicole Kidman’s Margaret moved with her three kids to Hong Kong because husband Clarke’s (Brian Tee) promotion required a job
transfer. Sarayu Blue’s Hilary, who changed her name from Harpreet Singh, also moved because of her husband’s work. Fringe benefit: Hong Kong puts distance between Hilary and her hypercritical mother. Jiyoung Yoo’s Columbia University graduate Mercy traveled to Hong Kong for a fresh start.
SPEAK THE LANGUAGE? Minimally, except for the bilingual Yoo.
LOCAL COLOR Night market. The city’s wild thicket of street vendors serves as the setting for the show’s central tragedy. “Expats” was shot in Hong Kong during the pandemic, when COVID restrictions limited filmmakers’ access to normally bustling public spaces.
FOREIGNCONCEPT Wealth, not geogra
1 Cosmo Jarvis as Capt. Blackthorne, left, in FX’s “Shōgun.”
2 Ansel Elgort, center, in Max’s “Tokyo Vice.”
phy, defines the familiesforhire dynamic familiar to “Expats.” Margaret thinks of her Filipina nanny Essie (Ruby Ruiz) as family while Hilary, bereft over fertility issues and browbeaten by her mother, comes to see housekeeper Puri (Amelyn Pardenilla) as her only friend. LIVING IN A BUBBLE “Expats” takes place in 2014 during the island nation’s “Umbrella Revolution.” Margaret and Hilary, ensconced in their luxury condo perches, barely notice the prodemocracy student protests. When the revolution does take center stage in one episode, Mercy’s Hong Kong friend Charly (Bonde Sham) scolds her: “It isn’t your fight and never was. You’re a tourist. It doesn’t affect your future. Not really. You can just leave.”
3 Clive Owen as Sam Spade in AMC’s “Monsieur Spade.”
4 Jiyoung Yoo, right,in Prime Video’s “Expats.”
The Spotlight Who’s Counting
Story by Carla Meyer ■ Illustration by Natalia Agatte For The TimesThe multihyphenate Donald Glover could substantially bolster his impressive career tally of 11 Emmy nominations as cocreator and star of Prime Video’s “Mr. & Mrs. Smith,” in which he plays one half of the titular spy couple. His versatility could land him in rarefied company.
4
Glover could vie in four drama categories: actor, director, writer and producer of the show about a spy couple. Glover already ...
2017
... received nominations in all those categories for comedy in a single year for his acclaimed FX show “Atlanta.” He won two that year for ...
1, 2, 2
directing and acting. The first Black directing winner in the comedy category,Glover was also just the second Black actor to win as comedy lead, after Robert Guillaume (“Benson”), and second director to win for directing himself since ...
1977
Alan Alda, from “M*A*S*H.”
1
Only Carroll O’Connor has won lead actor Emmys for both comedy (“All in the Family”) and drama (“In the Heat of the Night”). Glover could be the second.
4
Glover’s biggest awards haul was in 2019, when, as musical act Childish Gambino, he won song and record of the year, rap/sung performance and music video Grammys for his politically charged “This Is America.”
5
Writers Guild of America awards Glover has won: two for “Atlanta” and three for “30 Rock.” He wrote for the Tina Fey show in his 20s, before ...
2009
starting a fourseasonplus run as jockturnednerd Troy Barnes on the beloved NBC sitcom “Community.”
→ “Mr. & Mrs. Smith’s” Donald Glover and Maya Erskine.
An essay by Francesca Sloane on making ‘Mr. & Mrs. Smith’: ‘I think my dad might’ve liked this one.’
“I DIDN’T LIKE THE ENDING,” SAID MY DAD about my “Atlanta” episode “The Big Payback.” I had just delivered my first and only child about a month before, and it would be the last time I physically sat in a room with my dad while he was still lucid. I wasn’t fazed; I chuckled. That script garnered the most personal attention I had ever received in my career at that point, but this was my father, a straight shooter who meant zero harm in his unwavering honesty. Not an ounce of bull— ever fell from that man’s lips. It paved roads for
huge gains and even larger losses in his 76 years of life.
I admired his brashness and looked up to his authenticity. In a lot of ways, my relationship with my dad prepared me for Hollywood. I had a thicker skin, and approval was never the dangling carrot that drew me in. My dad was endlessly proud of me, but he never understood my creative choices or instincts. “Why don’t you write Dick Wolf and see if he can get you a job? … Now that guy knows how to make goodTV.”
When Donald Glover called me to create a “Mr. & Mrs. Smith” television series, I went on record to say that I thought he was kidding. It felt like a suggestion my dad would put into orbit for my profession. “Mr. & Mrs. Smith,” brought to you by the writers of “Atlanta”? I couldn’t see it. Still, no one could rope me into a challenging brainstorming session better than Donald — it got me percolating on how we could see it. What if, instead of pulpy action, we focused more on the raw vulnerabilities of marriage? What if these spies weren’t superheroes but instead lonely dreamers? Would we be able to relish the inbetween moments while making an espionage actionthriller? What would be the effects of taking a predominantly masculinecharged genre and telling it through a female gaze? A daunting but exciting task. By the time I was sitting in the room with my dad while he criticized my writing, “Mr. & Mrs. Smith” had already endured quite a bit, and in turn so had I. Ebb and flow, up and down — all the things that come with trying to make something go from mush in your head into something tangible and collaborative. The first real win was the opportunity to cast a writers’ room with some of the most brilliant women I know, along
THE FIRST REAL WIN WAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO CAST A WRITERS’ ROOM WITH SOME OF THE MOST BRILLIANT WOMEN I KNOW.
side Stephen Glover and Donald. This will always be monumental to me; their fingerprints on the Smiths are wacky, generous and irreplaceable. But we also had gone public with bringing one of my greatest heroes into the mix, Phoebe WallerBridge. When that ended up not being a creative alignment, after months of mutual parties trying hard to make it work, I was crushed. I was nervous. And I was also very, very pregnant with a slight case of hyperemesis gravidarum, which meant that I was sick for nine months straight. When Maya [Erskine] came on board as Jane, things started to fully click.
I said goodbye to my dad that day with a tower of suitcases and a 2monthold and flew to New York City to start physical production. It became clear to me early on that no matter how much I thought I knew, the series showed us what it wanted to be, not the other way around. My biggest headache was nailing the tone. Is it doing all the things we want it to? Is it a love story? Is it a spy story? It’s a love story and a spy story! How do you make something feel big in terms of scope but still stay small in terms of intimacy between our two characters?
Things were starting to jell; we were trucking along. But life has a way of making you stay humble. I learned that my father had fallen in Los Angeles. “I’m fine,” he said over the phone. A wave of relief washed over me until he continued, “I just ... can’t find myself … from myself.” His words became garbled. It was clear he’d had a stroke. But here I was, my first showrunning gig, a newborn, an international shoot to complete. My sisters went to his aid, and I continued forth with production, fighting with myself to not run to him instead.
Pushing past jet lag and being totally in awe of Lake Como outside villa windows, we prepped a fullblown chase sequence down the cobblestone streets of Italy. In a meta way, my fatherinlaw, Ron Perlman, was coming to play a sort of baby man who forced John and Jane to become parental figures to him while protecting him from assassins. We had motorcycle stunts. An explosion waiting in the wings. I kept pressing that I wanted to make sure the smallness still maintained itself — let’s not forget, this is a small story about two people. And then, a phone call, one that made everything become as micro as
stardust. “I’m so sorry.” A pause. “You need to come to say goodbye to Daddy. He had another stroke. It’s time.”
When I made it to his bedside, Dad was nonverbal, in a great deal of pain and not fully present. I held him tight. He hung on for the whole week my sister and I sat with him. Coincidentally, a new episode I cowrote of “Atlanta” aired. I watched it as he snored beside me in a morphinefueled slumber. I
loved how it turned out. He would’ve hated it. I wished he could have told me so. I had to head back to Europe to reunite with the crew, which crushed me. He passed away an hour later. He spared me from watching him die. I miss him every day.
Now that the show has aired, I’m shocked by the response. I’m blown away that anyone is watching at all but floored that people are relating to it. When I was younger, I got my rocks off being niche. Isolating people from my “craft” felt satisfying, because it meant that it was just for me. But this project, a title I was so resistant to at first, was bizarrely hitting a wide range of individuals. That feels kind of magical to me. And you know what? I think my dad might’ve liked this one. It’s no “Law & Order,” but it’s got spunk.
↓ Francesca Sloane had to be away from her ailing dad while making the spy series.
The Spotlight Gold Standard
Despite controversy around its genre, FX series is this year’s favorite. ‘Reservation Dogs’ may break through for its final season. And don’t count out‘Abbott.’
“ABBOTT ELEMENTARY” THREW ONE HELL OF A party to wrap up its strikeshortened third season, with Janine (Quinta Brunson) inviting her colleagues over for a micromanaged bash (hey, it’s Janine) that showcased why this delightful sitcom won the Emmy for casting a couple of years ago. ¶ Putting all these people in the same room and watching their characters unleash their own brands of nerdy chaos — Barbara (Sheryl Lee Ralph) and Melissa (Lisa Ann Walter) enjoying some brown liquor, turning the former into Sea Barbara (“I am the captain!”) — was to appreciate that “Abbott Elementary” now belongs alongside such great workplace comedies as “The Office” and “The Mary Tyler Moore Show.” It’s even in conversation with them. You may remember that Mary Richards threw a (disastrous) party or two. And Janine and Gregory (Tyler James Williams) finally giving in to their feelings echoed the whole willtheyorwon’tthey Jim and Pam thing.And it was lovely! ¶ “Abbott” won four Emmys for its first two seasons. In addition to that casting prize, Brunson won for writing and lead comedy actress, while Ralph took supporting actress for the show’s debut year. Not bad. But it still feels a little light. We’ll see how it fares this year against “The Bear,” the category’s overwhelming favorite, even with all the drama surrounding its comedy.
Illustration by Erica Bonkowski
“ABBOTT ELEMENTARY,” “ONLY MURDERS IN THE BUILDING” and “THE BEAR” are the only holdovers from the eight series nominated last year. But most of the open slots will be filled by series that have been nominated in the past, including two shows — “CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM” and “HACKS” that weren’t eligible in 2023. It’s also likely that twicenominated “WHAT WE DO IN THE SHADOWS” returns after being crowded out last year, as its writing was as sharp and nutty as ever.
That leaves a couple of spots, one of which should go to “RESERVATION DOGS,” a gem that has been repeatedly feted by the American Film Institute and the Peabody Awards but not at the Emmys. It’s a special show, vitally important for Indigenous storytellers, and I can only hope that Lily Gladstone’s presence and promotion of the series during her
“Killers of the Flower Moon” awardsseason run raised its profile among Emmy voters. It’d be nice — and fitting — for it to go out with a few overdue nominations. Among the newcomers, the broad, cartoonish “PALM ROYALE” has its fans, and I can only wish I was among them. It wasn’t for lack of effort. Guy Ritchie‘s “THE GENTLEMEN” possessed the mayhem and visual flair you’d expect from its creator. It was good frothy fun. Boots Riley’s “I’M A VIRGO” premiered almost a year ago, but I don’t think anyone who saw this comingofage story about a 13foottall teenager will ever forget it.
And since sometimes a show can come out of seemingly nowhere, let’s throw in “GHOSTS,” the CBS remake of a beloved British sitcom that has found a devoted following over the course of its three seasons. Times television critic Robert Lloyd loves it, and he was boosting “Schitt’s Creek” before anyone else knew about it.
After winning the supporting actress Emmy for “The Bear,” AYO EDEBIRI now graduates to the lead category. Sydney and Carmy were partners in Season 2, after all. She’ll join reigning winner QUINTA BRUNSON (“Abbott Elementary”) and JEAN SMART, who won the category for the first two seasons of “Hacks.” You could make a case for any one of these women and you would not be wrong.
KRISTEN WIIG has piled up nine Emmy nominations over the years and, again, “Palm Royale” has its supporters. Whatever you think of the show, you can’t say Wiig didn’t invest herself fully in the role of the series’ shameless social climber. Her “Saturday Night Live” former castmate MAYA RUDOLPH could be nominated for “Loot,” another Apple TV+ series that you wish were better than it is.
SELENA GOMEZ has yet to snag a nomination for “Only Murders in the Building,” with voters discounting her essential presence in the show’s central trio alongside Steve Martin and Martin Short. With the category thinner thanks to the strikes, this could be her year. Same for DEVERY JACOBS for her tough, tender portrayal of Elora in “Reservation Dogs.” The episode with Ethan Hawke playing her father, which Jacobs directed, was sublime.
Remember how weird it was when MARTIN SHORT was nominated for the second season of “Only Murders in the Building” but STEVE MARTIN wasn’t? That’s not going to happen again. They’ll join last year’s winner (and, let’s face it, this year’s too), JEREMY ALLEN WHITE from “The Bear.” LARRY DAVID has been nominated six times in this category for “Curb Your Enthusiasm,” and it’s
hard to imagine he doesn’t receive a parting gift for its final goround.
You know who else has a lot of Emmy nominations? KELSEY GRAMMER He won four times playing Dr. Frasier Crane and is up for consideration again for “Frasier’s” revival, which many people liked and some found anticlimactic. Chances are he’ll be snubbed (and, yes, here this usage is correct) by more than a few voters for his politics.
Two newcomers worth mentioning: THEO JAMES, the star (and mostly straight man) of “The Gentlemen,” and the impossibletoignore JHARRELJEROME, who plays the sheltered, 13foottall hero of “I’m a Virgo.” Jerome won an Emmy three years ago for Ava DuVernay‘s “When They See Us,” and he deserves to find himself back at the ceremony again for his heartfelt work on the show.
COMEDY SUPPORTING ACTRESS
SHERYL LEE RALPH and JANELLE JAMES have been nominated twice for “Abbott Elementary,” with Ralph winning for the first
←
Potential comedy series nominees include, clockwise from top l eft, “Abbott Elementary,” “What We Do in the Shadows,” “The B ear,” “Only Murders in the Building” and “Reservation Dogs.”
season. Where’s LISA ANN WALTER? Winning “Celebrity Jeopardy!” is nice and all, but she deserves some recognition here too.
HANNAH EINBINDER earned nominations for the first two seasons of “Hacks,” and the show’s third season has focused primarily on the friendship and often fraught working partnership between Einbinder’s Ava and Jean Smart’s Deborah. The dynamic has changed, and the equal footing has given Einbinder more leeway to display her range. She has truly impressed.
Of course, “The Bear” will have a presence here too with a couple of likely firsttime nominees — ABBY ELLIOTT and LIZA COLÓNZAYAS. And we can’t forget MERYL STREEP, who, on “Only Murders in the Building,” managed to convincingly play an actor relishing her big break after decades of frustration. Talk about an imaginative leap.
With the departures of “Ted Lasso” and “Barry,” there’s plenty of room in this cate
gory. Last year’s winner, “The Bear’s” EBON MOSSBACHRACH, will be back, of course, and probably will win again for the powerful episode detailing Richie’s transformation, “Forks.” He’ll likely be joined by three of his castmates — the great OLIVER PLATT, who has earned a nod (and a chocolatecovered banana) as lovable tough guy Uncle Jimmy, LIONEL BOYCE for playing the beloved pastry chef Marcus and, yes, MATTY MATHESON, the Canadian chef and acting novice who has become an essential member of the show’s ensemble.
That’s half the category. TYLER JAMES WILLIAMS definitely will return a third time for “Abbott Elementary.” Although their roles were reduced this season, it’s possible CARL CLEMONSHOPKINS or PAUL W. DOWNS make it in for “Hacks” or BOWEN YANG gets nominated again for “Saturday Night Live.” It does feel like CHRIS PERFETTI is due some love for “Abbott.” He brings such a delightful theaterkid energy to his socially awkward history teacher, and his rapport with Williams was a highlight of this season.
→ Kate Winslet in “The Regime,” clockwise from top left; Sofía Vergara in “Griselda”; Morgan Spector in “The Gilded Age”; Tom Hollander in “Feud: Capote vs. the Swans”; and Maya Rudolph in “Loot.”
Money doesn’t go as far as it once did with today’s TV viewers
As the wealth gap grows in real life, watching the rich behave badly isn’t as fun as it used to be. Creators are rethinking the approach.
THE RICH, TO PUT A SPIN on a biblical phrase, are always with us. In business, in politics — but also pretty consistently on TVtoo.
HBO’s “Succession,” after all, took home three of the last four drama series Emmys before it wrapped its run last year. The small screen is filled with a parade of characters cossetted, burdened and driven to extremes by excessive wealth and its associated power — but is it a story we’ve seen a little too oftenand one that cuts a little too close to reality lately?
The answers are yes and yes, which means many series (limited and otherwise) are finding success by tapping into the lifestyles of the rich and horrible with new ways to expose those tarnished, gilded cages, including “Loot” (Apple TV+); “Mary & George” (Starz); “Griselda” and “The Gentlemen” (Netflix); “The Regime,” “The Gilded Age” and “The Righteous Gemstones” (HBO); and “Feud” (FX). And in the process, their creators are reconsidering that their wealthy, fantastically awful protagonists not only need a makeover — they also require some comeuppance.
“‘Dynasty’ was popular when I was a kid,” recalls Matthew Read, executive producer on “The Gentlemen,” a show about a man whose newly inherited estate houses a marijuana empire. “But it would be hard to have an audience look up to those characters or enjoy their conspicuous consumption in the same way [today]. Something like ‘Succession’ let you enjoy how unhappy these rich people are.”
Watching the rich enjoy their privileges, at one point, was a way for the havenots to peep into a life they’d likely never attain. “People are aspirational,” says Gillian Anderson, who plays a TV journalist whose interview with Prince Andrew forces the royal to retreat from public life in Netflix’s “Scoop.” “Everyone always imagines that when you get that rich or famous,
that means everything is going to be OK.”
“It’s interesting to see what people do with those opportunities,” says Chloë Sevigny, who plays a wealthy heiress on “Feud: Capote vs. the Swans.” “It’s something we’re all curious about: What would I do with that money?”
And as Julian Fellowes (creator of classconscious historical drama “The Gilded Age,”who writes the show with Sonja Warfield) notes, not all rich folk need to be portrayed as horrible: “Some people who have made a lot of money are really nice and see it as their job to pull their weight. Others feel they’ve done the work and they should have fun and everyone else should push off.”
But that’s the trick these days in focusing on characters with unimaginable wealth. With suggestions that an abundance of money actually affects people’s thinking — consider the “affluenza” criminal defense writers are shifting tack. Will Tracy has been doing this for a few years now, writing for “Succession,” penning 2022’s “The Menu” (with Seth Reiss) and creating “The Regime,” a limited series about an outoftouch ruler in a fictional country.
“There’s that madness that seeps through all [those] projects,” Tracy says. “You can see it in ‘The Regime,’ that that amount of power and access to material resources has allowed her to create her own reality, and everyone around that person has to pretend that her reality is reality.”
That vicarious, fantastic thrill that audiences once gleaned from stories of the rich and powerful takes on different meanings in TV series about them today. As billionaires proliferate and expand the everwidening class divide in the real world, watching the superrich slip away without real consequences can make a show feel hollow, not aspirational.
Some series are addressing this more directly: “Griselda”invites audiences to identify with a female drug lord — a gender
shift Eric Newman (who cocreated the limited series with Doug Miro, Carlo Bernard and Ingrid Escajeda) says puts a new spin on things. Retribution, in the end, is exacted on her through the deaths of her children, a consequence he’d insisted on.
“As storytellers, we have an obligation to show that there is no happy ending when there’s this much trauma,” he says. “I look at criminals sympathetically, but if you’re telling a story that adheres to authenticity, these people don’t get away with it.”
Tracy’s fresh spin in “Regime” involves a political dictator who craves love from her constituency but is way too involved in her social media perception. “When shows like ‘Dynasty’ were on TV … the richest people in the country were ciphers, this black box,” he says. “Now the richest and most powerful people in the country are very visible … and they let us into their world through social media. They want us to be part of their thought process, and their thought process is, largely, insane. ... We want to watch that freak show.”
“Mary” creator DC Moore says when he was putting together his limited series about a mother and son amassing wealth and status from King James I, he recognized there is an echo of the past in today’s real world. “I feel like we’ve come back to that sort of age, in the last 10, 20 years where absolute power and autocracy is on the rise and those leaders are everywhere,” he says. “I completely had that in mind when I was writing this.”
But not every show is aiming directly at a big, consequential ending for its characters. “We’re in an interesting time, and people have a greater understanding of behindthecurtain [life] and that money doesn’t solve everything,” says “Gemstones” creatorstar Danny McBride, whose show is about a family of wealthy televangelists. “But I don’t think consequences have to be the point of [my] show. That’s not how I view storytelling, that a certain show has to follow a certain payoff.”
Meanwhile, there’s “Loot,” which has gone all in on the concept of having billions fall into the lap of a protagonist who wants to do good with it — instead of spending it, say, shooting rockets into the air or stumping for autocracy.
Cocreator Alan Yang (with Matt Hubbard) notes that the show “isn’t a polemic; we’re not trying to change everyone’s minds. ... but this show is on the end of the spectrum where we believe change is possible. It’s not just one lone billionaire, it’s not even every billionaire — everyone has to pull together to fight stratification in society. Ten nice rich people are never going to change the world. But do you have any hope that people can change? That’s baked into the show. Ultimately, that’s at the heart of what we do.”
Mixing computergenerated settings with practical effects, the production design team behind Prime Video’s postapocalyptic drama created its nuclearravaged Los Angeles from bits of the globe. Still, ‘L.A. imposed itself into the creative process.’
PRIME VIDEO’S “FALLOUT” MIGHT HAVE BEEN SET IN a nuclear warravaged Colorado or vaguely defined Southwestern desert, depending on whom you talk to. ¶ When a nearperfect replica of the Santa Monica coastline was found during a West Coast location scout, though, the decision was made to place the postapocalyptic video game adaptation in a sandblasted, future Los Angeles. ¶ That coastline? It was the west coast of Africa, but with some set dressing and judicious digital effects, the striking Elizabeth Bay region of Namibia would more than do.
“L.A. imposed itself, in the most wonderful way, into the creative process by way of Namibia,” says Jonathan Nolan, “Fallout’s” guiding executive producer and director of the show’s first three episodes. “There’s always hesitation for showbiz folks to set something in Los Angeles because it feels like a little narcissism is attached to it. But that actually kind of worked for the unique tone of this show. The final impetus was trying to incorporate the physical production of making the thing into the actual storytelling.”
Although the rest of the series was shot in and around New York City and adjacent to Utah’s Bonneville Salt Flats, Namibia’s desertmeetsthesea landscapes and longabandoned Kolmanskop diamond mining installation provided keynote looks for bomb shelterraised heroine Lucy MacLean’s (Ella Purnell) journey from her underground vault through L.A.’s irradiated Wasteland.
Nolan had wanted to be the first ever to film at the remote location for his HBO series “Westworld,” but it didn’t mesh visually with that show’s technoWestern look. For the remains of L.A., though, it was perfect.
“It’s just so gorgeously destroyed,” Howard Cummings, a twotime Emmy winner and production designer of both Nolan shows, says of the facility and nearby abandoned town. “Every dayfor years, 60 mph winds with sandstorms have pitted all the surfaces. When they abandoned the giant processing facility, they blew up the
manufacturing parts. That was perfect for us; it looked like an atomic bomb went off. We had to do so little to really make it come alive.”
Another “Westworld” veteran, Emmywinning visual effects supervisor Jay Worth, says his team had only to add a computergenerated Ferris wheel to the pier and Malibu mountains out to Point Dume to the otherwise untouched African standin for Santa Monica Bay. The shot informed the exterior aesthetic for the first season, which has only one set of images actually filmed in Southern California: secondunit drone footage around the Griffith Observatory.
“It was really Howard’s design and finding Namibia that was the touchstone for us; the show should look like this really interesting mixture of practical buildings and this expansive space,” Worth says. “The biggest challenge for us, visual effectswise, was combining Namibia, New York and Utah to make it look like postapocalyptic L.A. Each one is so varied and disparate in texture, tone, all of it. But having grown up in Los Angeles, it was really fun to be able to figure out which touchstones we could grab onto for the iconicness of Los Angeles.” Worth’s team pro
vided the brokenarch remains of LAX’s Theme Building with a giant, eatenaway Randy’s Donuts nearby for the show’s lead wanderers — Lucy, walking nightmare the Ghoul (Walton Goggins) and Maximus (Aaron Moten), a renegade from the fascistic Brotherhood of Steel — to pass by from various distances and directions. Other Googiestyle structures were created for both the retro ’50s, prewar future L.A. scenes and their later, damaged ruins. Hollywood’s Capitol Records Building is both wrecked in the nuclear attack and still partially looming when the Ghoul passes by more than two centuries later. And the Griffith Observatory, where Season 1’s finale takes place, had to have its exterior (which was practically shot at the Woolworth Estate in suburban New York) digitally replaced while the interior auditorium missing part of a wall so it looks out on a destroyed downtown L.A. VFX vista — was filmed on a volume stage specially built for “Fallout” at Long Island’s Gold Coast Studios.
Main stages were at Steiner Studios near the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Settlements dotting the otherwise empty (actually Namibia) Wasteland were built out of found scrap at an East River container yard and Wade’s Salvage in Atco, N.J. The opening prewar sequence — a children’s birthday party at a glasswalled, Midcentury Modern Case Study home — screams Holly
“YOU HANG A SIGN THAT SAYS HOLLYWOOD BOULEVARD IN FRONT OF ALMOST ANYTHING AND THE AUDIENCE’S IMAGINATION FILLS IN THE DETAILS.”
1 Namibia’s coast stood in for Santa Monica in “Fallout.”
2
A battered Griffith Observatory made with both practical and special effects.
wood Hills but was physically filmed at a house in Nyack, N.Y.; Cummings thinks it was supposed to stand in for L.A.’s Nichols Canyon area.
Imaginativeborderingonimaginary SoCal environments were created in upstate New York.
“The cave for the bear sequence was near Woodstock,” Cummings says of the scene where Maximus and a Brotherhood warrior are attacked by an ursine mutant.
“It was manmade for the mine that provided the cement to build the Brooklyn Bridge! If it was in L.A., I wanted it to be the cave in Bronson Canyon.
“Visual effects helped on some of the wider shots that show us L.A. is now a patchwork of destroyed and green areas,” Cummings continues. “It isn’t a specific lake where Lucy and the Ghoul encounter the Gulper [a giant, mutated salamander],
3
The remnants of downtown L.A. after a nuclear war.
The auditorium of the observatory was recreated on a volume stage.
but it’s supposed to be off Hollywood Boulevard. That [actual] location was a quarry that filled up with water in Verplanck, N.Y., and those buildings that we shot against were actually there. It was so greatlooking.”
Yeah, but not looking a whole lot like the L.A. we know. Or does it?
“You hang a sign that says Hollywood Boulevard in front of almost anything and the audience’s imagination fills in the details,” Nolan notes.
Worth believes it’s little details that really sell the illusion. One of his favorite shots involved moving sand to reveal stars underfoot on the Walk of Fame.
“Jay and his team are the best in the business, extraordinary artists in their own right,” says Nolan. “They always do their best work when we’ve given them something to build off of. Even when places
have been practically built for most of the shots, which is very seldom in the show, they would do better for having a reference on camera.”
Which brings us back to the dramatic spectacle of AfricaonthePacific, where waves crash up against endless desert sand.
“I always look for a shot that kind of encapsulates what the look of a show like this is, come back to it visually over and over again to make the rest of the shots work,” Worth notes. “The Santa Monica Pier was fascinating because there’s a tone to it. It not only has to look a certain way technically, it actually has to give you that sense of hope and dread at the same time for this new journey Lucy is on. It was fun to try to capture that, then carry that emotion through the rest of the season.”
PRIME VIDEOCATEGORY: Lead Actress The Spotlight
NEWCOMERS ARE CERTAINLY WELCOME AS POTENTIAL WINNERS OF PRIMETIME
Emmy lead actress awards, but at the 56th ceremony held on Sept. 19, 2004, at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles, the award recipients (and most of their competitors) turned out to be Hollywood royalty of various stripes.
→ Sarah Jessica Parker won her first acting Emmy in 2004 for HBO’s “Sex and the City” in 2004. She won as a producer of the series in 2001.
REVISITING KEY EMMY MOMENTS FROM TWO DECADES AGO
In the lead actress in a comedy category, Sarah Jessica Parker picked up her first acting Emmy for playing Carrie Bradshaw in the final season of HBO’s “Sex and the City,” having been nominated five times previously in the category (she won a 2001 Emmy as a producer on the series). She’d been up against several comedy legends: Jennifer Aniston (“Friends,” NBC), who won the category in 2002; Patricia Heaton (“Everybody Loves Raymond,” CBS), who won it in 2000 and 2001; firsttime nominee Bonnie Hunt (“Life With Bonnie,” ABC); and Jane Kaczmarek (“Malcolm in the Middle,” Fox), who earned seven nominations in the category for her role but zero Emmys.
Presented with her Emmy by Jon Cryer and Charlie Sheen, Parker smooched husband Matthew Broderick (who won an Emmy in 1994) and ascended the stage. She thanked the usual suspects — including her lawyer and publicist — and added a special acknowledgment of New York City “passersby, who always wanted the best for me.”
Parker’s “Sex” costar Cynthia Nixon also won that evening for supporting actress in a comedy, her first Emmy win.
It was hard to be too surprised when Allison Janney won her fourth Emmy for her performance as C.J. Cregg on NBC’s “The West Wing”; she’d also won in 2000 and ’01 as supporting actress and in ’02 as lead. She also won two for “Mom” (CBS) in 2014 and ’15 and as guest actress for “Masters of Sex” (Showtime) in 2014.
Janney was up against Edie Falco (“The Sopranos,” HBO), who had won in this category in 1999, ’01 and ’03 and went on to win it again for “Nurse Jackie” (Showtime) in 2010; Jennifer Garner (“Alias,” ABC), nominated four times for the role but no wins; Mariska Hargitay (“Law & Order: Special Victims Unit,” NBC), who won the category in 2006; and Amber Tamblyn (“Joan of Arcadia,” CBS) on her first nomination.
Janney did something unusual in accepting her award for lead actress in a drama from presenters Victor Garber and Taye Diggs — she invited her fellow nominees onto the stage. “Mariska, I know I told you something last night, that I would give this to you, and it seems like such a silly idea in this moment,” she said. “But I would love it if you would come up and stand with me because we’re wearing such beautiful green dresses.” Hargitay did stand onstage, to the side — but no other nominees joined her.
Oscar winners abounded in the lead actress in a miniseries or movie category, but Meryl Streep seemed to have an early lock on the prize forHBO’s “Angels in America.” It was her second Emmy; her first was for “Holocaust” (1978, NBC) and she’d win a third in 2017 as narrator for “Five Came Back.” Her win helped “Angels” sweep all of the miniseries acting categories (with costars Al Pacino, Jeffrey Wright and MaryLouise Parker).
Besides costar Emma Thompson (Emmy winner for a 1998 “Ellen” guest appearance), Streep was up againsttriple Emmy winners Glenn Close (“The Lion in Winter,” Showtime) and Judy Davis (“The Reagans,” Showtime) and fourtimerHelen Mirren (“Prime Suspect VI: The Last Witness,” PBS).
“There are some days when I myself think I’m overrated,” Streep said, taking a dramatic pause. “But not today!” Thanking “Angels’” Emmywinning creator Tony Kushner, she said, “The bravest thing in the world is that writer who sits alone in his room and works out his grief, his rage, his imagination and his deep desire to make people laugh, and he makes a work of art that then transforms the role into truth.”
The entertainment industry job market has yet to pick back up after a series of successive blows. Some of the hardesthit belowtheline workers have been out of work for a year.
THIS YEAR HAS BEEN ROUGH FOR THE entertainment industry so far. Not just at the box office and on Wall Street but also for the writers and crew members who’ve been struggling mightily to get back to work.
A full year after Hollywood screenwriters kicked off six months of strikes that effectively shuttered the film and TV business in the U.S., the people who make Tinseltown function are still feeling restless as they await a recovery that seems to be brutally slow in coming to fruition.
My colleagues Christi Carras and Stacy Perman recently checked in with multiple writers of varying experience levels spanning film and TV, one year after Writers Guild of America members walked out in pursuit of higher wages, enhanced streaming residuals and limitations on the use of artificial intelligence.
All of those who spoke with The Times, many of whom didn’t want to jeopardize future employment by talking on the record, said that either they or people they know have struggled to find work for at least 12 months amid a contraction that has led to unstable production and employment levels across the sector.
“We’re not seeing this Vshaped recovery in writer employment,” Patrick Adler, principal at Westwood Economics and Planning Associates, told my colleagues.
Production data for Los Angeles and beyond paint an ugly picture.
Film, TV, commercial and other production activity in the first quarter of 2024 was 20.5% lower than the fiveyear average in the Greater Los Angeles area, according to the nonprofit FilmLA. Globally, film and TV production lagged by about 7% in the first quarter of 2024, compared to the same period in 2023, per tracking company ProdPro.
In film, production delays have contributed to a thin movie slate, with box office down significantly from last yearand representing an even steeper dropoff from before the COVID19 era.
The downturn started well before the writers as well as members of the Screen Actors GuildAmerican Federation of Television and Radio Artists went on strike. After years of overspending by entertainment giants hoping to catch up with Netflix in the streaming wars, the industry adopted new austerity measures, slowing down content spending and taking a more cautious approach to greenlighting new projects.
The socalled peak TV era that enabled 599 original scripted series to run in a single year is over, and the postbinge hangover is still being felt, including by people who have typically had major success.
Ted Sullivan, who’s earned credits on hit shows such as “Riverdale” and “Star Trek: Discovery,” told The Times that he hasn’t worked in a real writers’ room since the WGA strike began, marking a sharp departure from 14 years of consistent employment.
FILM, TV, COMMERCIAL AND OTHER PRODUCTION ACTIVITY IN THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2024 WAS 20.5% LOWER THAN THE FIVEYEAR AVERAGE.
“I feel like I’m in the worst ‘Twilight Zone’ ever,” Sullivan said, “where I wake up and I’m now 20 years old again writing spec scripts for free in my apartment.”
All this raises the question of whether the entertainment industry is simply feeling the pains of the transition to a new era or if it’s in a state of managed decline.
It’s notoriously difficult to break into the entertainment industry, and no one is owed a fulltime job writing scripts for television. People in this line of work are used to going for unpredictable spans of time without working and plan accordingly.
But for those with the talent, persistence and luck to make it, these unionprotected jobs have historically been a good
The business appears to be moving into a period in which legacy media outlets live alongside the tech giants, including Netflix and Amazon. In some cases, the traditional studios will still compete with the streamers. In other cases, they’ll be suppliers, selling their movies and shows to Netflix and its ilk.
way to make a living. Belowtheline jobs have long been seen as a path to a middleclass life, despite the long hours and grueling work. These are the people who are now getting squeezed.
The heightened anxiety comes as the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, which represents film and TV crew members, continues its bargaining sessions with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers. The union’s negotiations for a new basic agreement with the
studios wrapped up recently without a deal but are expected to reconvene.
The IATSE contract expires July 31, and talks have been generally described as productive, knock on wood. The union does not plan to extend the deadline. The union’s priorities in negotiations are addressing topics such as wages, pension and health benefits, worklife balance and job security, as well as streaming residuals and artificial intelligence, a potentially serious threat to employment.
Speaking anecdotally with sources, there have been signs of production and other parts of the industry starting to pick up. There’s hope that a more substantial recovery takes shape heading into next year.
But that’s a long time to wait without income, and it remains to be seen how close to normal things get. If it turns out that the industry ends up permanently smaller, more or less, that’ll make it hard for some people to stay in the game.
President Amanda Burrell is always looking for the next challenge.
THERE’S NO QUESTION THAT HOLLYWOOD IS IN the midst of a slowdown. But despite the industry upheaval, Amanda Burrell and the production company she runs, Team Downey, have never been more hungry. As president of the Venice, Calif.based firm founded by actor Robert Downey Jr. and his wife, Susan Downey, Burrell is, by her own admission, “voracious” for new projects. ¶ The company has had several major successes lately, with HBO’s Vietnam Warera miniseries “The Sympathizer” and Netflix’s fantasy drama “Sweet Tooth.” ¶ Burrell is optimistic that the entertainment industry will figure out where audiences are and what they want to see. ¶ “The reality is the audience is there and they’re voracious,” she said. “So we just have to figure out how to reach them and how to get them into it.”
What gets you excited about a project? We often ask ourselves over here at Team Downey what marching orders should we give the industry in terms of what to bring us, and it’s actually kind of challenging because we have “Sympathizer,” we have “Sweet Tooth” and we have “Perry Mason.” We run the gamut. For us, it’s really about things that are ambitious, things that are challenging, things that we know will be thematically rigorous and get into a conversation with an audience.
And then for me personally, it’s really about the people that we engage, people that we’re talking to every day. Often, it’s just jamming with a writer on an idea that just lights me up.
You mentioned things that are ambitious, also things that are challenging.
Why did you latch on to “The Sympathizer?”
We got the book from A24 with Park Chanwook [“Decision to Leave”] attached, and I’ve been a massive fan of his.
But also, I think it was really recognizing the fact that, often in the American understanding of history, the Americans are centered. And the fact that this was centering a Vietnamese protagonist and a community, and it was really illuminating that it was just a bunch of humans trying to make decisions about their future and what they’re meant to believe and what they’re meant to do, and they’re caught in all of these forces. It felt very human, and it felt really worth examining through that cinematic lens.
Why do you think “Sweet Tooth” has resonated with viewers for three seasons?
It had this cinematic rigor to it. [Showrunner and director] Jim Mickle was ambitious, and he wanted to feel this point of view of this child and the way that children look at the world with a level of optimism and beauty and hope. It was incredible learning for me that first season. And then just finishing it ... it’s so bittersweet because of the opportunity for it to be a real catharsis for an audience to complete a comingofage journey for this character.
What else does Team Downey have in the pipeline?
So Robert [Downey Jr.] is going to do this
Lincoln Center play, which we are very excited about, “McNeal,” and we’re producing that. We have “Play Dirty” at Amazon. With the completion of “Sweet Tooth” and “Sympathizer,” we’re really reassessing what it is that we want to be putting out there. A lot of our efforts are going to be put into the feature film space. We’ve been spending a lot of time in television, and that’s been amazing, and we still want to keep that very much alive. But with “Oppenheimer” and “Barbie” last year, I think we are seeing a real possibility in the feature space that wasn’t there previously.
↑ Stefania LaVie Owen, left, Nonso Anozie, Christian Convery in “Sweet Tooth.”
→ Sandra Oh, left, and Hoa Xuande in “The Sympathizer.”
What are you listening to right now? I’m listening to a lot of hiphop because my 9yearold is obsessed with 50 Cent. And then also the “Challengers” soundtrack when I need to hype myself up. I put on that Atticus Ross, just pumping in my car when I need to prep myself for a meeting. It’s very highoctane in my car.
How do you get focused?
I tend to get focused by multitasking. I do tell my kids to breathe a lot, and I force myself to do it. But if I’m really honest, for me, I’m able to focus on one thing if I’m multitasking and juggling a lot of things.
What do you do to relax?
For me, it’s about being with my kids and listening to them talk about school. I love cooking. I love gardening. Getting into nature and hiking and being with my family. That’s the most relaxing thing to me.
The Industry Inside the Episode Story by Whitney Friedlander
Jessica Hobbs dove into the behindthescenes isolation and betrayal experienced by Princess Diana and Margaret Thatcher.
Writers and directors reflect on the making of their Emmywinning episodes.
“WAR,” THE SEASON 4 FINALE OF NETFLIX’S MONARCHY DRAMA
“The Crown,” is an icy one. ¶ And that’s not just because it’s set just before and during Christmas. ¶ This portion of the story of Queen Elizabeth II (Olivia Colman) and her ilk is about the marriage that is destroying the lives of her oldest son and heir apparent, Charles (Josh O’Connor), and his longsuffering wife, Diana (Emma Corrin). It’s also about Parliament finally bending its Iron Lady, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher (Gillian Anderson). ¶ In a more relatable sense, as Jessica Hobbs’ Emmywinning direction shows, it’s also about that icky, awkward, selfconscious feeling people get when they’re forced to be in a room where they know they’re not wanted. In different ways, Hobbs focuses the camera on Anderson’s and Corrin’s ostracized women as they attempt to keep a stiff upper lip even though every hair on their body is at attention and they count the seconds before they can retreat to the privacy of their rooms to cry, scream and crumble on the bed. ¶ Hobbs, who has directed several episodes of the series created by Peter Morgan, tells The Times that there were a few reasons why she asked for this episode. One is she likes the completed feeling of a season finale, when all the stories come together. Another is that this would be the final episode with this cast, as this show rotates in younger actors forolder ones every couple of seasons to tell the stories of the actual people it’s depicting. And, she says, this one came with a lot of girl power. ¶ “That particular episode, I felt, was very femalecentric,” she says. “And I wanted to land those women’s stories in a way that perhaps reflected their isolation as strongly as I felt it. We knew their public stories. It’s the behindthescenes stories that I was interested in reflecting more.” ¶ Here, Hobbs thinks about the color palette for the episode, the feeling of betrayal these women felt and how to recreate history while still respecting those who suffered (such as Diana’s welldocumented eating disorder).
There seems to be a lot of blue in this episode. There’s an icy blue coming through the windows as we set up the morning. At the end, when Diana comes to Christmas with the royals, she stands out in a blue tartan suit while everyone else is in more muted colors ... For the opening scenes, the director of photography, Ben Wilson, and I wanted to set up an earlymorning blue feel, which was actually going to occupy the way you would watch the episode. This was the ending of a lot of things. The very first man that you meet [Paul Jesson’s Sir Geoffrey Howe] is about to start that ball rolling. He’s going to start Thatcher’s downfall, which will tip the queen into a different place. And it starts to expose Charles and Diana’s relationship.
We were coming into a whole winter period. So we wanted winter, Christmas, low light, single sources. It was something that affected thepalette of the whole episode.
Also, that family has a uniform. For a while, Diana would go along with that. And she very deliberately in those later years started to dress in a way that she was more comfortable [with] for herself. And we really wanted to reflect that.There was just this gulf, this chasm, that existed in there and [costume designer Amy Roberts and I] felt that the costumes really reflected that.
→ Emma Corrin as Princess Diana in “The Crown.” Season 4 finale director Jessica Hobbs, opposite.
The episode also opens with the morning routine of a peripheral character. Geoffrey Howe isn’t a name immediately known, but it’s his speech in Parliament that brings down Thatcher. You also shot her reacting to his remarks from a lower angle and close up, as if to see if we’d catch her cracking. It’s really lovely starting on a character that you don’t know because … you have the audience’s full concentration because they’re trying to figure out what’s going on. And I did two things in [the Parliament] scene. I sat underneath her because I wanted to feel her vulnerability. And I shot her from his point of view. He wasn’t looking at her, and she never fully turned.
Gillian and I talked about this quite a bit. I think you’re very conscious when a speech is being made about you that isn’t going to go well, and the physicality of her keeping her back to him was really important to me to portray.
You also track her slow walk and car ride home before she finally makes it upstairs to her room. But the camera only peeks in at her crying there. It’s like you’re still giving her some dignity and privacy.
It’s actually [several] locations, so hats off to Gillian. ... So for her to maintain that composure of where she was emotionally, I thought was great. But I wanted it to feel like it was one procession, that she was just going to the smallest, quieter space she could find and that’s the only place she could actually let her emotion show. Rather than voyeuristic, we were being respectful of the privacy of the moment.
This also speaks so much to people in power, particularly women, who aren’t allowed to show vulnerability.
Gillian and I talked about this. We felt there were two places in the episode where she could show vulnerability. That was more of a horror landing on her. In the meeting with the queen,where she comes in to ask her to dissolve Parliament, we wanted to make sure that we created a balance between those two, that one didn’t rob from the other.
This scene with the queen is one of many where it’s people sitting and talking. How do you film them in such a way that keeps the audience engaged?
A lot of it’s to do with making sure that the camera reflects the status and the space around them, and that we give time to let the tension build up. And it was also choosing when to allow people to look directly into each other’s eyes and when to observe them more from a slightly more profile angle. We give ourselves a lot of time to shoot the different shots that we know will build up to that dynamic.
I love that rigidity of Thatcher. Interestingly, in that second scene where she cried, she didn’t expect to. I didn’t expect her to. Olivia certainly didn’t. And Olivia is so empathetic. I’m like, “Don’t you be nice to her. When we’re finished filming, you can go outside and give her a hug.”
It was the way the words hit her at that point, that they just landed for her so strongly and it felt like it was finally over. Whereas earlier, walking up the stairs is an enraged moment and a sense of the brutality for all of those men closing down on her. This was her going to another woman and just [saying], “It’s done. Game over.”
In one conversation, Queen Elizabeth awards Thatcher the Order of Merit. I don’t know if what was said between these two women is accurate. But it’s interesting that you held the camera on the medal’s box, which Thatcher had left on the table. Is that a subtle, “You’re not done with me yet” jest?
No one knows what happens in private audiences with the queen. So those are always made up. … So it’s always a great place to hang important dramatic scenes.
We worked very hard to find the uncomfortability for the queen in her relationship with Thatcher, but that she was wanting to give some recognition to another woman who had been in a very senior position for a number of years and in a difficult way.
We were still arguing about [how to end] it in postproduction. She’d said goodbye in one of the takes, and I took it out. I really love how uncomfortable it is, the silence at the end of it.
You show Diana’s bulimia. But, like the Thatcher scene, it’s handled in a respectful way. Were there conversations as to how much of her eating disorder to show, both to honor her and any audience member experiencing this? We had many conversations about it and a lot of research and consultation. It’s something we knew about her and it’s also something that’s not uncommon. I felt — and I know Emma felt this very strongly
too, and so did the cinematographer, and we talked to Peter about it as well — that I wanted to accentuate the loneliness of it, the isolation of it, rather than the energy of the act itself. The times we show it, you hear it and you’re aware of it. But we actually shot it in a mirror as part of the bathroom cabinet. And then she sat down next to the toilet slowly as we went in toward her. The visceral sound of it, I felt, was enough for people to both understand but also to experience the desperate sadness of it in terms of what’s going on with her emotionally.
And then the second time was just constructing in a way that we felt we could tell that story visually that she was done. She’d had an argument with Charles that just tipped her almost into a new way of being. And that’s also why [the episode is] called “War.” When you get to the end of the episode, she has now been tipped into, “I’m gonna fight for my corner now.”
The episode also has to recreate another welldocumented event: Diana’s trip to Harlem, New York, where she became one of the first public figures to embrace AIDS patients. How do you do that without it being a parody?
I think we tried to find a line where hopefully you had the emotional experience. One of the doctors we spoke to who was there at the time said that she was smart enough to know that, by using her media presence, that would draw attention to something that needed drawing attention to. I also wanted the kid [she hugs] to have some kind of agency and not just to be a figure in a bed.
The episode ends with Diana submitting to being a part of the royal family’s Christmas photo. However, she’s wearing a much more fashionable black velvet evening gown and standing apart from everyone.
She is dressing like it’s her own funeral. What was so beautiful was [costume designer Roberts and I] talked about the exposure of her back and how exposed she felt. That dress allowed me to shoot her from behind, just to have that visceral understanding of how exposed this woman felt in this room full of people who were supposedly family.
The queen’s love of corgis is well known. Is there an art to casting corgis? There’s a bunch of corgis. Prince and Lily are the lead two, but very problematic. Some of the others were good. I mean, you don’t see the bits in between where some of the dogs go slightly ballistic. … I loved the kind of knockabout nature of working with them and the fact that they could slightly upend the scene.
The monochromatic imagery in writerdirector Steven Zaillian’s “Ripley” was curated by cinematographer Robert Elswit, drawing inspiration from 1960s Italian filmmakers Roberto Rossellini, Federico Fellini and Michelangelo Antonioni as well as Italian painter Caravaggio. The desaturated aesthetic subliminally deepens the unsettling persona of the con artist portrayed by Andrew Scott. “He is so neurotic,” says Elswit, who shot all eight episodes of the series, of the Tom Ripley character. “It seemed that lighting from extreme contrast was going to be the center of it for me. All the practical locations and beautiful sets production designer David Gropman built lend themselves to that.” Texture and frame add to the character’s phobia, especially during the first episode, “A Hard Man to Find,” when Ripley boards a New York train. As it leaves the station, he blankly stares into the camera lens as if someone is watching before the camera pulls back and onto the train car on the opposite side. The perspective is a peek into Ripley’s mind. “It’s a wonderful feeling when Tom is totally paranoid and he thinks someone is following and staring at him. It felt like a wonderful embrace of that and a real creative idea on how to make that work,” Elswit says.
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