CURIOUS Magazine | Empathy + Resilience | Winter 2022

Empathy + Resilience

WINTER 2022

Volume 4 No.2 Empathy + Resilience WINTER 2022 Actually Curious X Curious Publishing Threadless Design Challenge

with art by Char Bataille, Dtello, Nicholas Aceves, Rodrigo Ferreir, John Tibbott, Elizabeth Douglas DeArmond, Félix Pimenta, Cass Alberda, Mulyana Yusup, Danmir Mercado, Maren at Weird People Design, Maren at Miseducated Pixel, Amie Colosa, The Female Faceless

The Secret Behind My Empathy

with Michael Tennant, Founder and CEO of Curiosity Lab

The Empathy Soapbox Project

with Lauren Verdugo, Jordan Velez, and Rebecca Ustrell

Rebecca Ustrell, The Artist Interviews with, Bertsdude Kirsten Jones Bob I With Artworks by, Jegan Mones (Left Artwork) Nur Hussein Mizuki Smith Mia Bruce Droopywing Samantha Orellana

FIRST PLACE Char Bataille, Nourishment, 2022 | @charbataille on Threadless Char Bataille is a multidisciplinary artist in Montreal, their mediums include tattooing, latte art, illustrations and transforming found objects. They explore subjects like mental health, ugliness, resilience and love.

Threadless Design Challenge ACTUALLY CURIOUS + CURIOUS PUBLISHING THIS

PAST

HOLIDAY

SEASON,

WE

PARTNERD UP WITH THREADLESS TO BRING A MERCH DESIGN CONTEST CHALLENGING ARTISTS TO EXPLORE LOVE AND EMPATHY

BY SUBMITTING DESIGNS THAT SPARK MEANINGFUL DISCUSSIONS WHICH BRING US CLOSER TOGETHER. WWW.THREADLESS.COM/ACTUALLY-CURIOUS This challenge received over 600 submissions from artists all over the world. Designs ranged from typographical art, illustrative designs, collage, graphic design and photography. Three winners were chosen in February 2022. First place was awarded to Char Bataille for their design entitled “Nourishment” (left). Fist place received $1,000 cash, all four decks of the card game Actually Curious, + a one-year subscription to CURIOUS Magazine. Congratulations, Charline! Here are the winners of the contest, and some of our favorite submissions.

Char Bataille, Stay Curious, 2022 @charbataille on Threadless

Char Bataille, I deserve love, 202 @charbataille on Threadless

SECOND PLACE Dtello, Freedom Always, 2022 @Mr_loony on Threadless

THIRD PLACE Nicholas Aceves, Have Empathy Stay Curious, 2022 @acevesaceves on Threadless

Rodrigo Ferreira, The Path to Empathy, 2022 @rodrigobhz on Threadless

John Tibbott, A Smile is Just the Start, 2022 @quick-brown-fox on Threadless

John Tibbott, Freedom is a Human Right, 2022 @quick-brown-fox on Threadless

John Tibbott, Happy Place, 2022 @quick-brown-fox on Threadless

Elizabeth Douglas DeArmond, Circle of Life, 2022 @Babsadee on Threadless

Elizabeth Douglas DeArmond, Compassion Connection, 2022 @Babsadee on Threadless

Félix Pimenta, Women’s Rights Are Human Rights, 2022 @felix_pimenta on Threadless

Félix Pimenta, Make Empathy a Daily Habit, 2022 @felix_pimenta on Threadless

Félix Pimenta, Empathy is Magical, 2022 @felix_pimenta on Threadless

Félix Pimenta, Listen With Kindness, Talk With Compassion, 2022 @felix_pimenta on Threadless

Cass Alberda, Eat Up, 2022 @buscrashh on Threadless

Mulyana Yusup, Empathy is the Greatest Strength, 2022 @Muloloyoung on Threadless

Danmir Mercado, Worldwide Empathy, 2022 @dampa on Threadless

Maren at WeirdPeople Design, Kindness is the Antidote, 2022 @WeirdPeople on Threadless

Maren at WeirdPeople Design, What does love mean to you, 2022 @WeirdPeople on Threadless

Maren at WeirdPeople Design, Empathy Vaccine, 2022 @WeirdPeople on Threadless

Maren at miseducated pixel, Elixirs of curiosity – Love, 2022 @miseducatedpixel on Threadless

Maren at miseducated pixel, Elixirs of curiosity – Freedom, 2022 @miseducatedpixel on Threadless

Maren at miseducated pixel, Elixirs of curiosity – Human Rights, 2022 @miseducatedpixel on Threadless

Maren at miseducated pixel, Elixirs of curiosity – Empathy, 2022 @miseducatedpixel on Threadless

Amie Colosa, Let Love Grow, 2022 @chinupprints on Threadless

The Female Faceless, The Tetris of Empathy, 2022 @Femalefaceless on Threadless

The Secret Behind My Empathy With MICHAEL TENNANT , FOUNDER & CEO AT CURIOSITY LAB and CREATOR of ACTUALLY CURIOUS Illustrated by Rebecca Ustrell Michael

Tennant,

is

an

award-winning

media, advertising, and nonprofit veteran for companies like MTV, VICE Media, P&G, CocaCola, and Google. In the 2000s, he sat front seat to the rise of VICE, today’s leading voice in millennial media, and brought with him a dedicated approach to long-term authentic community building.

He created

Curiosity Lab to be a radical example in media and advertising of business diversification and progressively inclusive hiring practices.

Today, Curiosity Lab is a growing product, content, and consulting business that uses storytelling to drive change.

How have you used empathy to practice resilience in your everyday work routine?

Empathy and consistency have been my guide and the secret to my recent good fortune. At first, this routine of consistent empathy check-ins with myself literally saved my life. When I learned of the passing of my older brother, I turned to the habits that gave me a guaranteed instant escape, drugs, and alcohol.

It was when my body seized up and I thought I’d have a heart attack if I went to sleep, that I knew I needed to form some other habits or it would cost me my life.

From a life or death situation to living every day as though it might be my last. Reflective questions became my default. Questions like, if today was my last on this earth, how would I want to spend it? Or, if the way I’m spending my time, with this person, or that task, doesn’t feel good to me, then what’s the point in me doing it?

Empathy, my dear friends, is not about how I treat other people. It’s a part of it, yes, but the real daily consistent work is more about how I respond to the emotional

quality of what I encounter. How am I feeling? How are those who are involved feeling?

It is a different orientation toward the world than what I was taught, or what I know naturally, so it really does take daily practice.

The good news is that this approach has allowed me to work at a high level, while also listening in for signals that I need a break in order to remain resilient. My body has some consistent ways of warning me about burnout. My shoulders might get tense. My skin might be sensitive to the touch. These are extreme cases that I’ve only recently learned.

Some relatable ones to most people might be the pit that might develop at the top of my abdomen every time a name or situation is brought up. Or a situation that visits me in my sleep, my meditation, or when I’m trying to rest and be at play. These were once the very situations that I drowned in a bottle and obsessed over with willing commiserates and some lines. Today, these are the uncomfortable situations that I address head-on with myself and the ones that I love.

I lost my brother on July 19th, 2019, a Friday. I spent the weekend journeying to my emotional and addiction rock bottom. On Monday, July 22, 2019, I started the daily routine you find on the next page. And the rest is the history that unfolds before you today.

MICHAEL’S DAILY ROUTINE

MY DAILY ROUTINE

YOUR TURN...

Use this space to create your ideal daily routine, or to investigate your current routine.

Tip: Be gentle on yourself! Only you know what works for your schedule.

Make sure to make time for rest, play, and passions.

Bring people together.

Create emotional connections.

Promote active listening.

Practice Empathy.

Share local narratives.

Repeat.

Soapbox Empathy Project JORDAN VELEZ, LAUREN VERDUGO, AND REBECCA USTRELL,

A PROPOSAL BY

Illustrated by LAUREN VERDUGO AND REBECCA USTRELL (image from the film The Last Black Man in San Francisco)

The soapbox is a platform for progress.

Though we do not use wooden shipping boxes in our post-plastic era, the iconic image of a person on a soapbox, speaking to crowds that gather on corners, continues to inspire and elevate voices of the working class, marginalized voices, and revolutionary thinkers.

The Soapbox Empathy Project aims to provide that same platform to those in our local community while creating a conversation that encourages empathy and understanding of our neighbors, family, and friends. The human experience is not lived alone. Our environment, political climate, and our respective cultures' are unique to us. Empathy, listening, and understanding are universal and essential to our sense of peace and purpose.

This episodic series will be 3-5 minutes long per episode, and will begin with the soapbox being placed by its creator, a visual metaphor for lending their platform for those who may not have one. The participant will then stand on top of it and speak their truth straight to the camera.

PROPOSAL The Soapbox Empathy Project is a video series that will amplify the voices of underrepresented members of our community while using one question and asking it to 3-5 different people. This will prove to create completely different answers with the same question.

1. This intimate video vignette will begin with a participant pulling a card from an Actually Curious card deck created by Curiosity Labs.

- This question acts as a prompt for the participant to answer.

- They step onto the soapbox and respond to the question.

2. We will then cut to a second then third participant answering the same questions, providing a contrast between answers.

- Videos will be IGTV length, 2-5 minutes with instagrammable 60 second length versions for promo as well.

3. Closing scenes of the participant walking off as the screen fades out - Sponsors, collaborators, and contributors will be recognized in the credits and the beginning.

** The soapbox that the participants will be standing on can have the Curiosity Labs/Empathy Card Deck logo laser engraved on it to advertise where these questions are coming from while recognizing our partner for this project.

Questions we would like to start with inspired by the decks of cards: “If I could redo one moment, good or bad, I would _______________.”

“I knew I finally made it when ____________________.”

“I feel most free when ____________________________.” “ What does empathy mean to you?”

LOCATION IDEAS Abandoned lot in Upland Claremont Packing House Train Station in Ontario near Chaffey Community Museum of Art Maloof Foundation Garden

PRODUCTION CREW Director/Filmmaker - Jordan Velez Producer/Artist - Lauren Verdugo Director/Producer - Rebecca Ustrell Gaffer - TBD Lighting assistant - TBD

PROJECTED BUDGET/COST FOR 3 EPISODES: 5 Crew Members: $3,000.00 - $4,000 40 hours of Jordan Velez filming and editing 15 hours for both Rebecca Ustrell and Lauren Verdugo for production and execution of “on set” filming and organization 15-20 hours for a gaffer or lighting assistant Rental equipment: $1,200.00 - $ 1,500.00 Lights/Reflectors Special lenses Sound equipment Buy/build once for all episodes: $800.00 - $1,200.00 Dolly rig Clip mics Soapbox

Rebecca Ustrell, the Artist AN EXAMINATION OF

IMMERSIVE UNICORN A SERIES OF WORKS EXPLORING LOSS, RESILIENCE, AND LEANING ON THE COMMUNITY AS A TOOL OF SELF- PRESERVATION. With art and illustrations by Rebecca Ustrell.

TW: Language, Drugs, Violence, Depression, Sexuality, Miscarriage, Graphic

Rebecca Ustrell at the reception of Immersive Unicorn at Curated Chronicles, December 11, 2021

JUNE 23, 2020 CLPPNG blares on the stereo of his champaign BMW as we race back from a very hot and amorous day at the beach somewhere at the end of Orange County.

I have always found pulsing and hard bass a form of meditation and cleansing. The throbbing synths and harsh vocals compel me to zone out at the horizon of the long overpasses and desert landscapes. On days like this, time behaves how I imagine it in indie films - drawn out, almost boring, but something significant in every small detail of the day. Sam and I exchange jokes and talk shit about the disappointments in our life.

It’s a form of therapy that only works when someone really knows you, someone that knows that you’re just being hyperbolic when you say shit like “I work so much fucking harder than people know.”

We’re heading back to my new-ish place of residence, a room at a friend’s home in Lincoln Park where I live with two roommates M and H. We park the car and

start unloading from our day trip. A joint in an Altoids container, a box of cigarettes, a blanket, and some card games. It’s the middle of the first year of the Pandemic, yet somehow we’re both employed at arguably nonessential jobs - luxury wine and spirit shops - so we part ways that night in order to make it to work the next day.

I indulged in the usual routine at home that night: drew a bit in the newly converted covered porch/art studio, fed Phonte and retired early that evening. The house was unusually quiet that night so I fell asleep rather easily. Both of my roommates were out either at a party or working late at the restaurant which they both spent a significant amount of time at.

JUNE 24, 2020 - THE FIRE I woke suddenly around 3am to the sound of my roommate M shouting at the other end of the house. This wasn’t inherently alarming in that we have been known to have impromptu parties at all hours of the night quite frequently. This time was different. I closed my eyes and

a few minutes later I hear him scream, “Rebecca get out of the fucking house right now.” I’m naked and struggle to switch a light on to get on clothing as I attempt to calibrate my eyes and figure out what exactly is going on. Phonte is curled up at the end of the bed and looking at me with a crooked head. “Rebecca! FIRE!!”

Now I am fully panicking. I opened my bedroom door and a bright orange light glowed from the living room.

An intense heat radiates from the light and hits my face with a strong gust of wind. I quickly shut the door and open a window, throwing Phonte out. All of this was instinctual. I don’t know if I actually perceived the reality of my situation but I knew I had to act quickly. I grabbed my purse and passport and jumped out of my window.

I am standing on the lawn when my emotions catch up with me.

Holy shit, the house is on fire. Where is H? Where is M? Are the animals all out? It’s too dangerous to go back in.

The Fire, iPhone Image, June 24, 2020 A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

THE MENTAL TOLL - PTSD Do you ever get caught in a loop in your head?

Sometimes the audio of a song you listened to won’t stop playing over and over, sometimes it’s something someone said to you.

The portion of time between the 3 AM and 11 PM on that day, June 24, 2020 is an intense, scrambled explosion of recollections. I spend the night experiencing auditory hallucinations hearing H screaming in pain from 2nd degree burns, smelling whiffs of ash from the house fire, and hearing CLPPNG playing over and over in my dreams which last around 1 hour before I shake myself awake throughout the night.

The room I am now in is pristine, and the sterility of the surroundings makes the reality of my situation seem fictional. I am sleeping at a friend’s place a couple of cities over. Their condo has a spare room usually used as an AirBNB. The bed is huge, and the room is the size of a cave. I get up to use the bathroom and I see a strange and twisted face in a window nearby, it’s my reflection in the mirror.

Charred Remains of Curious Book, iPhone Image, June 24, 2020 A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

I lost all of my possessions that night except for what the fire department, and my partner Sam were able to salvage from the ash-caked room I once dwelled in. I was able to recover my new computer which I bought for my start-up Curious Publishing, some cherished stuffed animals, and some books. My clothes were un salvageable and all of my artwork and inventory for Curious Publishing did not survive. My roommates weren’t as lucky. Their rooms were reduced to a pile of ash.

“SHE’LL BE FINE” I think that there’s this misconception that people like me couldn’t possibly be struggling or have a dark side. From the outside I am an innocent, young, Latinx Womxn who works in the nonprofit sector. A community leader for projects in two towns I lived near, and now a successful Project Director for a start up in the arts.

When the house fire happened it forced me to slow down and reflect on how far I’ve come, and realize what I wanted for myself.

Pomona Bedroom, iPhone Image, June 25, 2020 A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

Phonte, iPhone Image, Spring 2020 A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

THE CHASM 2020 was not an easy year for me up to this point.

On April Fools Day I had a miscarriage. I held a small burial and ceremony in a remote location in Upland with my partner Sam in the middle of a quarry on a sunny day. I spent a bit of time reflecting on my mortality and sexuality through various illustrations featuring Womxn in fantastical erotic scenarios - and slept and slept and slept. I fell into a deep depression and wanted nothing but the company of my cat and to drown my sorrows indulging in films like Midsommar. Yeah that dude totally deserved to be sewn into a bear and lit on fire, I thought to myself. Luckily, my body bounced back quickly and I was able to proceed for a long time as if it never happened. Around the time this happened, I was coming off of a short but intense cocaine habit which lasted around 2 years. It was not my first experience

Bye Bye Baby, iPhone Image, April 2020 A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

with addiction, and at the time, I couldn’t say if it would be my last since it is a self-identifying truth. A month before the house fire was the death of George Floyd where I found myself scrambling to contribute what I could to fighting police brutality through art activism and cash donations. Sam and I were working on a series of illustrations called “The Social Justice Tarot”, and I decided to sell one of the pieces as a print, donating all proceeds to the Minnesota Freedom Fund.

A recurring theme throughout the illustrations was fire, coincidentally.

CONTINUING THE WORK, DESPITE IT ALL From my perspective, it seemed like all of the huge accomplishments I had made with Curious Publishing were suddenly tiny and not enough to keep the community inspired, but nonetheless, I continued my project as each edition of CURIOUS came out with stronger features than the issue before. Community support for Curious was overwhelming and I credit the Inland Empire for keeping it alive throughout the Pandemic. What I didn’t believe until after the fire was

From the Social Justice Tarot Project by Rebecca Ustrell & Samuel Signer, 2020

that Curious is self-sustaining and beyond my control.

It’s truly a community-owned project at this point. I try to listen as often as possible to what people want to see represented in our projects and make sure that the project continues to have a positive impact on the community. I find that now I lead best when I am an active listener, and an advocate for underrepresented artists.

REBECCA THE BLANK Most people know me one of two ways: Rebecca Ustrell, the Founder of Curious Publishing, or Rebecca, the artist. One persona, the Founder, is public facing and approachable. I’m the person to help you get your print project accomplished, the person who might be able to get you into a gallery show, the person who definitely knows the next art event happening near you that you should be a part of…Rebecca at Curious Publishing is your ally and always available to hear your ideas and help you troubleshoot an art musing.

Then there’s Rebecca, the artist, a semi-publicly known, but mysterious person who over-shares online, and

Untitled, india ink on paper From the series “Lush” By Rebecca Ustrell 2018

under-shares in person. Rebecca an artist is known for her erotic drawings decorated with lush flora and fauna.

She is eager to experience everything possible in life and isn’t afraid to indulge in whatever may ignite her passion and bring inspiration. What few people have seen is the deep void that lives within me.- the child I felt inside of me was crying out for protection and comfort.

Why am I here? Why doesn’t anyone know what I need ? Why can’t I seem to escape tragedy? Why do bad things always happen to me?

PEAKS AND VALLEYS I am a sexual assault survivor and a victim of child abuse. As a form of self preservation, I will not go into a detailed account of these experiences. However, I find it important to acknowledge it as an experience that identifies me and influences how I perceive and interact with others. I have issues with intimacy and trust which continue to affect my relationships today. I believe that because I didn’t receive therapy growing up, I wasn’t able to begin learning how to cope until I had formed more concrete opinions about myself, and how the world works. I know that this void I feel inside is a place that

will always be there, but will only be as large as I allow it to become. I’ve now learned that the spiritual vessel that is Rebecca is as infinite as the universe. And with an infinite universe comes endless possibilities, paths, peaks and valleys to cross.

Sam + Me, iPhone Image, Fall 2020 A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

IMMERSIVE UNICORN In my new series, Immersive Unicorn, I attempt to override these deeply painful experiences with a colorful retelling of my personal anguish through vibrant panels inspired by the Unicorn Tapestries made in the South Netherlands around 1495–1505 mixed with my personal take on lowbrow, pop-surrealism.

The piece that has the most compelling imagery in the series so far is “1,2,3 Easy Street” (LEFT) 2021. This self portrait is a composite of defining moments of my transition to adulthood and my own experiences as a would-be mother. The smiling kewpie baby accompanies me and my beloved cat as we catch a train to our next adventure. Plenty of snacks and laughs along the way.

Baby and Me are dressed in matching clown collars, eager to put on a show for anyone we cross paths with.

We’re delighted to meet you and excited to add your story to our never ending scrap book of laughs.

1,2,3 Easy Street, Posca Marker on paper, 2021

The first work in this series “Immersive Unicorn No.1” (RIGHT) is a reinterpretation of the Unicorn Tapestries which originally depicts a unicorn with a collar, tied to a palm tree, and enclosed in a circular pen amongst a field of wildflowers. In this version, the unicorn does not make an appearance, and instead you’re left with a palm enclosed in a circular pen. It forces the viewer to ponder what should be held captive, or what has escaped captivity. From my perspective, the viewer is the unicorn, running through each panel of this series on a wild adventure.

I believe deep pain transforms us. As a form of escapism, I chose art as a tool to reclaim my pain. As humans we regenerate our cells constantly, and I believe that to be true of our capacity to thrive. There is no empty chasm within any of us, only deep pools which can be traversed. There’s new land on the other side more beautiful than we’ve ever seen. And I don’t mean some higher ethereal power shit. I mean visceral and real, pulsing beauty - the vessels that hold us.

Immersive Unicorn, India ink and acrylic on paper, 2020

Now that I’ve gotten all that out of the way…

They Don’t Come Here Often, Do They?, India ink and acrylic on paper, 2021

An Interview With Bertsdude By, REBECCA USTRELL Illustrated by, Rebecca Ustrell Bertsdude is a genre-fluid musician and visual artist based out of Rancho Cucamonga, CA.

On December 12, 2021, I took a trip out to the outskirts of Eastvale to meet with an artist that had been on my radar for the better part of 2021.

Bertsdude (Chris Ruiz) had reached out to Curious Publishing on several occassions to inquire about a feature in one of our printed magazines.

What he didn’t know at the time was that I was going through a major transition in my career and had seriously neglected my Curious Publishing inbox. Toward the end of November I had finally made a connection with him through a mutual contact. Melanie at Curated Chronicles had booked Chris as the musician for the opening day of my show Immersive Unicorn.

After meeting him, I realized he was the same one who had reached out to me for a feature, as well as the winner of a Curious Publishing IG giveaway. I loved his live set so much that I invited him and his girlfriend Samantha over for Hanukkah to kick off the beginning of what is now a really meaningful collaboration. Here’s the first time I sat with Chris, and got to know him as “Bertsdude” the musician. To set the scene, I arrive in the middle of a suburban tract home development where it seemed like the middle of nowhere. I rang the doorbell and he opens the front door which lead into a picturesque and huge modern family home. These are the kinds of homes I was rarely in growing up. Everything in it’s perfect place. He lead me upstairs to the space he creates in - his bedroom.

BERT, MEET REBECCA....

REBECCA, MEET BERT R: You got connected with me when I was probably the busiest I’ve ever been in my life.

B: Probably [chuckle]

probably since like 2018. So it was in a way pretty nerve-wracking, but I’ve been working on music constantly throughout 2021 so it just felt nice to be able to kind of showcase that in a very intimate way.

R: So how did you get linked up with Melanie at Curated Chronicles for the live set at my art show?

R: I think the first time I remembered one of your emails, I was already planning stuff for a work trip to New York. And I was thinking, “Okay, I’ll have to get back to this.” I had to keep a folder of all your emails and leave them unread, so that they would always be flagged. I’d be like, “I need to get back to this person.” And then I finally clicked your Spotify link, and I was like, “Okay, I really like this music, this is probably gonna work out.”

B: Honestly, it was just ‘cause my girlfriend and I, we’re always in [Upland], and I think I wanted to go to Penny Lane just to get one of those, like the record boxes that they have, because I’m getting her a bunch of records for Christmas and I wanted a safe place to put them, then because we’re always in Claremont, I was like, “let’s wander around” and we literally stumbled upon Curated Chronicles and just thought it was really cute. I love art galleries

B: I’m glad.

and little independent book stores so we went in; we’re both fans of art, we’re both fans of literature

R: I love soundscape type of stuff. So my thought was, “Okay, I don’t have to like the musician that I interview.” But since I liked it, it was a nice treat.

It was like a win-win kind of. Yeah, and then...

Seeing your live set at my art opening, I was like, “Okay, I’m actually emotionally moved.” [chuckle]

so it was perfect. As we were looking around, I was kind of eavesdropping because I overheard Melanie and a customer talking about music and I didn’t know Melanie was the shop owner. I just thought she was like a cashier or something, but when I went to go check out, I think I was buying an issue of CURIOUS because I walked in and thought “I wonder if it’s here” and sure enough there was

B: Yeah, and I mean, that event was, I was telling Sam [girlfriend] too, it was my first solo event

the whole table right there. When I was paying, I asked, “Oh just out of curiosity, I think I overheard

you guys talking about music, would you ever

B: Yes.

consider doing any live performances here?” She was really cool about it, she nicely said, “Yeah,

R: What’s the connection? I wanna know, I have to

with COVID though and the restrictions, it hasn’t

know because I just call you Bertsdude when I’m at

been able to happen.” She did say though that

home. [laughter]

she wanted to begin doing stuff like that and sure enough [laughter] everything just kind of fell

B: Yeah, it’s funny because when I moved to

into place. And then she was just like, “Oh yeah,

Eastvale, I didn’t really know anyone at the time just

we’re gonna be having a Curious event in early

because when we moved here, we moved into an

December if you’re interested in doing so I can

apartment simply to get an address to register me

give you my contact info.” We traded information,

for high school, but we moved here probably two

we were kind of just keeping each other updated,

weeks prior to registration so I was new to the city,

December 4th passed, and it all happened nicely.

new to the environment. I was skating at the time and the first group I kind of gravitated towards was

R: At the art opening, did you perform a recent

the skaters. I’ve never really been good at skating,

release?

I’ll be honest about it, I kind of suck, I know how to ride, I know how to carve, but that’s about it. There

B: Pieces from all three releases of the year. It

was this one trick that, I mean, I thought was cool

was one piece from Drone 2, which came out in

and it’s called a bert, but it originated as a surf trick

June, the rest of the acoustic set was stuff from my

by Larry Bertlemann, I think. It’s kind of like you

first album of the year, Berts, and stuff from this

plant your hand on the ground, and it’s typically on

recent release, Tasmanian Garlic. I don’t know

a bank, and you kind of whip the board around and

why I went with that name, I just thought it was

then you just ride back down. I always did them and

funny so I went with it. One of the ambient pieces

I think... What was my name on Instagram before?

was from that as well, but it kind of transitioned

I think it was like Larrythegoblin or something or

into that second piece.

Royceevermore or some dumb shit. [laughter]

R: So your name is Chris, but you go by Bertsdude.

“I would just hear ‘BERTSDUDE’ like all loud and I’d just be like, ‘What’s up man!’

B: But then I was just like, no, I do berts a lot so then I think I just changed it to Bertsdude and then everyone started knowing me as Bertsdude.

I would just be out in the nearby shopping center and I would just hear “BERTSDUDE” like all loud and I’d just be like, “ What’s up man!” [chuckle] But yeah, that’s the story, and even though I don’t

was like his name is not Bert.

B: It’s funny too because a bunch of people call me that.

B: In 2016 when I got my... No, not when I got my first guitar, but when I got the guitar that I really started playing on first, my friend and I at the time, Brody, we put it together so it’s kind of like a Frankenstein guitar and he said, “Oh no, it’s bad luck to have a headstock…” a headstock is where you’d tune the strings at up top.

skate anymore, it’s kind of just stuck and that’s my pseudonym, I guess.

B: And because we got that off of eBay, it was like a $30 neck or something, real cheap. It sounds like shit.

R: Well, it’s hard to forget, honestly, it’s like, Bertsdude.

B: Bertsdude, yeah, that’s him. [laughter]

[laughter]

B: But it was just blank, it was maple finish, and he’s like, “Oh, it’s bad luck not to have anything

R: I think the first time I was hanging out with you, I literally had to look at the email to be like “his name is not Bertsdude, obviously.” So what’s his name again? I’m like, Oh yeah, okay. [laughter]

on the headstock.” “I don’t know what to put.” So he was just like, “ Why don’t you just put Bert?” So then once I started playing that guitar, a couple of friends would say, “Ooo look, it’s the Bert special,” or something, I’m like “Shut up dude.”

B: That’s... Even on my instagram now... [laughter] R: Yeah. My partner asked me, “Isn’t that Bert?” I

but I was dog sitting for some neighbors across the street. I would just head over to feed the dogs and let ‘em out real quick, they didn’t really like a lot of attention. While I was in the garage feeding them one day, I saw a guitar case in the midst of all their mess in the garage and of course, me and my curious self, I was like, “I wonder what’s in there,” so I opened it up and it was just like a regular Squier Strat. And so I was just like, “Okay, this is nice.”

Then I think I DM’d the owner’s son on Instagram, and I said, “Hey, just out of curiosity, is that your guitar in the garage?” or something like that, he said, “Oh yeah, I haven’t touched it in years,” and I was just like, “ Well, if you haven’t played it, how R: Do you have it?

much would you want for it?” He said, “You can just take it if you want.” So...

B: Yeah actually, I played it the other night. [chuckle] B: Sorry, I have to make you search for it.

I immediately ran with this. I was like, “Okay, for [pause]

sure, thank you so much,” but because it was a Squier, it’s their cheaper version of Fender…

B: And it’s funny too just because some time in 2016, I was dog-sitting for my neighbor across

So I just wanted to mess with it, but my friend

the street...

Brody at the time, he would go to pawnshops, get really crappy guitars, and fix ‘em up big time so

B: There’s the Bert if you want to look at it.

immediately when I got home, I was just like, “I have

[Bertsdude hands guitar to Rebecca]

a project for you.” I disassembled it, and we put, I

think the new neck, new hardware, new pickups,

touches this little metal piece so you kinda get a

and did rewiring, and yeah, it’s the guitar that I...

little vibration. It’s not the best, but... [chuckle] It’s not ideal. But it’s what got me started, so she’s nice.

R: I love it. This is a cool case.

B: That’s how I started, at least. I think I asked for B: [chuckle] Yeah, it’s the guitar that I started

a bass, I wanna say, I think the Christmas of 2015

making music with so it means a lot. I’ve sold a

going into 2016, but when I was a kid, I would

lot of equipment just either because I didn’t play it

always go through phases and everything so I think

anymore or because I needed the money, but I’ve

my mom maybe thought it was another phase and

never thought about selling this one.

it wasn’t a really expensive bass, but I don’t think she wanted to spend money on an instrument if I

R: You can’t.

wasn’t gonna use it at all. And so I didn’t end up getting the bass, but with what Christmas money I

B: Yeah, it’ll stay with me.

got, I immediately went to Guitar Center and told them, “I’ll take that one.”

R: The story seems to have a lot of significance.

And that one I think was an Epiphone Viola Bass.

B: Yeah, exactly.

At the time, I was really getting into the Beatles and Paul McCartney was my everything so I wanted to

B: She’s a cutie, but there’s a lot of fret buzz, it’s

get a Hofner bass, which I actually have now, that’s

when you press down on, you see right here? Let

this one right here, and I wanted to get a Hofner

me see.

bass, but I think those were a bit more expensive than the Epiphone.

[shows fret buzz while playing] R: Oh, cool. That’s beautiful.

R: Oh, yeah.

B: I was just like, “No, I don’t want to spend too B: Yeah. It’s not really doing it too much right

much at once,” so I ended up getting the off-brand

now, but it’s when you hit right here and the string

version, but now I have the actual thing, so I’ve come full circle.

“Growing up, music wasn’t really a big part of the household or anything R: So you started music in 2016; before that, what were your interests? Did you have an ambition or an inkling that you would dedicate a lot of your life to writing music and performing?

B: No, actually. Growing up, music wasn’t really

B: Oh God. Top five, or something?

R: It’s a bad question, but... [chuckle] What was on repeat? [laughter]

B: I don’t even remember, dude. It was a lot of rap.

I remember that’s when Migos was first coming up and I think that’s when they put out Hannah Montana, Tyga was cool for some reason.

R: I was too old to like Tyga.

a big part of the household or anything. My mom would listen to country music, which I don’t like;

[laughter]

well modern country music, old stuff is nice, but then my dad, he would just listen to the typical Mexican stuff, which I love now, so that’s cool. But there wasn’t really...

B: But then, I think, just before that, I was listening to a lot of Skrillex. He was cool. Daft Punk. I’ve always liked Daft Punk though, I still do. Yeah, it was just a weird time for music.

R: That’s definitely something that grew on me too.

R: I love it.

B: But yeah, it was just, it was like, “Okay, music’s cool,” but I never really thought much of it. Oddly enough, I used to listen to a lot of rap [chuckle] and electronic stuff, dubstep, this was all middle school.

B: I never really thought I would get into music and oddly enough, I think when maybe it was 2011, maybe 2012, that’s when I started discovering more rock and I think because I’d always liked Green Day, I remember Tre Cool, his drums, I think on

R: Who were some of your middle school go-to musicians?

‘Basket Case’ the song, I was like, “That’s so cool.” [chuckle] So I started just air drumming, I would get pencils and just tap on random things so oddly

enough, my first instrument interest was drums,

I think that everyone has that moment, where

actually. I started discovering that and then I

they’re like, “This playlist is so perfect, I have to

slowly started getting into Van Halen and such

show everyone.” [laughter] I have to remix this, I

and I don’t know where Van Halen came from,

have to. [laughter] But, where was I going… But

but it just popped up.

then I think once I moved out to Eastvale freshman year, I was still listening to a lot of hip-hop and

R: Was it like a friend of yours?

rap, I think Tyler the Creator has always been very inspirational and Cherry Bomb came out I think in

B: I don’t even know. Maybe...something. I think it

2015 and so I was still a freshman, it was so cool,

might have been my step-dad because he would

and I was like, “Yo, this is amazing.”

always listen to classic vinyl on SiriusXM, I think it was the Channel 26, and so I was just like, “Oh,

R: What about it resonated with you?

this is cool,” so I would start listening here and there, but it was still mainly rap and electronic stuff

B: I don’t even know...because I remember in

at that time and at one point I actually wanted to

Anaheim I used to listen to Tyler a lot, but at that

be a DJ, but that didn’t pay off so. [laughter]

point, it was still very much hard rap, it was a lot of his derogatory stuff. When Cherry Bomb came out,

R: Like an electronic artist?

I think he started experimenting more and I think he himself, he was experiencing growth within as

B: Kind of.

well. His sound started changing and there was just a lot more fluctuation in his production. I had

R: Or just like spinning?

a friend, Elijah, known as Solarbroccoli, we’ve actually collaborated for two album covers now,

“This playlist is so perfect, I have to show everyone.

and he was in my health class so we went ballistic when Cherry Bomb came out, we were like, “TYLER DROPPED, TYLER DROPPED!” [chuckle] But yeah, once I started hanging out with the skater kids, they

B: More like spinning, it was weird. Like I can

were listening to more garage rock or classic rock,

make an epic playlist in any situation [laughter]

like Thee Oh Sees, King Gizzard, but then the old

stuff was Cream, Zeppelin, like CCR kind of stuff

the longest time until I had enough money to get an

so I was like, “Oh, this is actually really cool.”

actual amp, then I got the guitar, then ever since,

From what little they showed me, I think I just

I’ve just kind of been expanding my collection and

started branching out and finding stuff and here

so now I have like…

I am making music so, [chuckle] it’s a very long explanation.

[duck text tone rings]

R: Happens really organically.

[laughter]

B: Long explanation because I think it really takes

R: I was literally looking at that duck when that

a whole life’s experience before you decide to go

happened. [laughter]

towards a venture. Well for both of us, that was my experience. I think there’s a lot of people that

B: Yeah, I have maybe just over 20 instruments now,

are multi-talented that can suddenly shift what

whether it’ll be instruments or music equipment, this

they’re doing and then they come back to it. But

is my...

I mean music’s been pretty consistent ever since 2016 and I think once I started really listening

[opens music equipment drawer]

to the Beatles…my best friend, Sam, I think he introduced me to the Beatles with Strawberry

B: Extras.

Fields in like 2007 or 2008 so I was really young and I was like, “This is really cool.” I didn’t get

SHOW AND TELL

into them until much later on and then I would just always listen to Paul and I just really liked

Yeah so there’s CD material, there’s a weird little

him, and I was like, “Okay, his bass is really cool

flute type thing, I think I got it from a vendor at

too,” and “I wanna try that.” That’s what kind

Norco College, like those vendors that sell t-shirts,

of put my foot into music and actually playing,

flags, rings… But I found this, it was five bucks

then Christmas, like no I really wanted that bass.

I think. This I got at an antique store, a little mini

So I got it and then…we have a sound system

synth of sort...

downstairs so I was just playing out of the sub for

R: Oh, I’ve actually used that before, a friend of

R: Why weren’t you feeling it?

mine has one. Yeah, that’s fun.

B: Well, I mean, at the time, I was just, I felt it was B: It’s cute. My sister got me this from Olvera

too repetitive because I mean, it was. It was a lot

Street.

of looping, and... I don’t know, it was weird. You could tell it was very primal for my first endeavor

R: I had one of those from Olvera Street when I

just because the insides of the covers are still white,

was little, classic. [chuckle]

compared to the rest that are like half designs and everything.

B: They’re cute. I have a couple of harmonicas,

But that one had just come out so I thought, “Yeah,

sleigh bells when you need them, tambourine.

I’ll play it, why not?” It was odd because it was just me, my chair, this one maybe, and my classical

R2: So what was your first performance?

acoustic that my dad got me for graduation. I was the opener for maybe two or three rap groups after

B: My first performance was out of a garage for

so it was contradictory because it was soft and cute

my friend Addae. He was just doing, I think like

acoustic.

a pop-up shop because he made shirts, he made sweats, it was a brand. I think his brand name

R: You know, the rap guys like that stuff. [laughter]

was Fuchsia or something, and so it was kind of like a Fuchsia pop-up shop so he was just like,

B: Yeah it was soft acoustic music to begin with and

“ Would you wanna play or something?” And I

then like dadadadada after and so it was funny,

said, “Yeah, absolutely, no problem.” And that’s

but yeah, it was a cool experience. I think I messed

when my first EP or album thing came out, it was

up on one song just because I was really nervous.

called ‘Memories of Yesterday’, but I wasn’t a big fan of it, so once I put it on Spotify and the year

R: Do you remember how you felt when you’re

was up, I was like, “No, I’m gonna just take it off,”

performing for the first time?

[laughter] but I still have the CD and it’s this one actually. It’s that one. [chuckle]

“Nervous as hell.

B: Nervous as hell. [laughter]

It was just cool because I think he started plastering them around on stop lights around the city and I

R: Nervous, anything else?

was walking home from school one day and I’d seen it on the street light across the street. It was

B: Yeah and I think I was just excited because it

just cool to see Bertsdude on something, you know?

was, I mean, my first performance ever. And it was in front of like a bunch of friends, mutuals so it

R: That’s cool. It’s got history.

wasn’t like I was performing to strangers, but...

B: Exactly, but then we did that and then I think that was like my only performance for a good while. I R: Do you think that you would have been able to

joined the music program at Norco and then there, I

perform if it wasn’t for having a close friend? Do

just connected a lot with the musicians so playing felt

you think that that’s why you started performing?

very natural and organic. We had to do showcases as well and when I’d get there at the school or

B: Most likely, yeah, because he was the one that

elsewhere, I was still really nervous, like my hands

reached out and in the back of my mind, I think I

would be a little shaky, but it just felt nice to play for

had always thought about performing, but I was

people. I think the biggest place we played was the

a bit skittish about it. I just didn’t really tackle it

OC Fairgrounds. There were a lot more people than

too much so that’s how that went. He reached out

I was used to [laughter] because the auditorium I

and I just said, “Sure, why not?” And then, I think

think held up to 100 people, maybe if that, but then

he was doing a promo for either his brand or for

OC Fairgrounds, there was like, probably close to

the show and asked if I could make a song for it

like 300 so I was like, “Holy shit.” [laughter]

as well. It was a minute-long song or something and it was cute. It’s slo-mo video and he does this

R: Yeah, that’s funny. You’re talking about your

weird editing style where there’s a lot of saturation

experience

and kind of animation to the video, but it still looks

whenever I would perform in orchestras when I was

like actual, like footage. But... So we compiled

younger, I played cello.

and

then

I’m

like

remembering

that and the show was cool. I still have the little mini flyer. It’s probably like that big or something.

B: Yeah, Sam [Rebecca’s partner] was telling me.

R: But I used to play violin.

R: That’s so sweet.

I actually don’t own a cello anymore, but that was like the last instrument that I was actually serious

B: Or whatever, say bye, and never see them again.

on and...

R: Yeah, I was the opposite, I was afraid of B: Cellos are really cool.

everything. [laughter] I was afraid of everything, but that was like my first, wetting my feet into being

R: I think the only reason why I was down to

comfortable with other people, I was just skittish.

perform was because orchestras are huge and

I had my siblings and that’s what I knew so when

you pretty much disappear in the group because

they weren’t around, I’d be like, “ Who are these

you’re all wearing black. [laughter]

little kids?” [laughter] because I think I started [playing] like fourth grade and I did all the way up

B: Yeah. Exactly.

to junior year of high school.

R: But I grew up with like major stage fright, didn’t

B: That was a good while though.

want to be called on to read in class, it was just like, no. [chuckle]

R: Yeah good while, but before doing that, there’s no way that I would have liked...

FRIENDLY DUDE B: You were just very to yourself.

B: No, I’ve always been outgoing...

Talkative. I’ve always been a very big people

R: Yeah. The fact that I did music is probably why

person. I was always the kid that like at the big field

I’m comfortable now with public speaking and

of VictoriaGardens when it wasn’t like gated off.

connecting to people because you’re...

I would just see random kids all grouped together and I would just go up to them, no problem and

B: I mean, you’re holding events now.

be like, “ What are you guys playing?” And then just join in for tag...

R: Yeah, like you’re put into an environment where

now all of a sudden you have to collaborate with

it’s some variation of interlude. So I think on Berts

20 kids. [chuckle]

in the beginning of the year, track five was “Kirt’s Interlude,” just because my friend Kirsten made a

R: [Points to an album] What’s this one called?

vlog kind of YouTube account and so she was just like, “Oh, can I... Can you make me a song so I can

B: Memories of Yesterday. Yeah. I don’t know why

play in the background?” And I said “Hell, yeah.”

I went with that, but some stuff just kind of came

So it’s my first score in a way, but then I just really

out and bam.

liked it, so then when that was coming out, I asked, “Hey, can I use it on the album?” She’s like, “Yeah,

R: It resonated with you at the time.

it’s your song, dude. Go ahead,” but because I made it for her, I called it “Kirt’s Interlude,” because

R: Yeah. Some stuff just comes out and you just

she goes by Kirt. “Drone” only had four tracks so

roll with it. But...

that didn’t have an interlude, but then for Garlic, I think that’s “July 13 Banjo Interlude,” and that’s

R: Yeah. What would you say influences the songs

just, its a minute of a little strumming with notes here

that you write? What are your songs about? Are

and there, but yeah, sometimes stuff just comes out

they all over the place? Do they kind of have a

of the air and not...

theme?

R: Well, you’re just saying that, but to make a whole B: I think just pretty random stuff. Yeah, there’s

song like that, I know that it’s more than just…

a song on here called “Friends.” There’s a song

it’s because all you really said was “random.”

called “Brother.” “Friends” is pretty just self-

[chuckle] It probably sounds like a silly question,

explanatory. “Brother” was about my best friend

but why would you write a whole song about your

Sam. There’s a song called “Goodbyes,” that’s

friends and what did it sound like?

about my dad and I think it was just me on a 12-string just strumming just really pretty chords.

B: I don’t know, just because I...

I’ve had a pretty consistent thing with interludes and ever since I’ve been making albums like track number five, if it makes it to five and up,

R: And were you trying to achieve a certain feeling?

B: I had a lot of support going into the project and just felt it’d be a nice ode to my friends…

So I did it and there’s just random songs on there.

I think it’s easier to have meaning in a song when there’s lyrics and everything, but literally all my stuff has been instrumental, except for the very last track on Garlic and that was just a poem that I wrote, but it’s more spoken word, it sounds like it’s through a distant megaphone. I’m not too

hiking, which was nice. “Voice Memo 84” I think

comfortable with my voice on track yet, but it’s a

it literally was a voice memo. I didn’t really edit it

step. [laughter] Yeah, but I think there was more

much after, probably added a tiny bit of reverb, but

meaning in the last album, for sure.

that’s about it. [chuckle] My voice memos are just full of random riffs, ideas; there’s maybe old demos

R: Let’s talk about it.

on there, but that was just one that was really pretty so I threw it on. “Dear Sister,” is a song for my sister

B: Let me see the track list. Okay, so “Ongoing

and she was just always bugging me, she’s like,

Conversation,” track one, I sampled, well, this was

“You don’t love me. You never made a song about

on a hike with...

me,” so here’s your song. It was a repetitive kind of fingerstyle guitar, electric, but in the background,

R: Now, we’re talking about?

I’m messing with a delay pedal just to create this weird glitchy sound. “It Makes Me Sick” was just a

B: This is the recent one, Tasmanian Garlic, and

random song, but with emotional ties just because

track one, it was just when my girlfriend and I were

a lot has been going on in the past couple months

on a hike and there were just a lot of birds because

so that’s what happened with that, but it still sounds

there were a bunch of trees so of course there’s

pretty so it’s nice. It’s kind of like a blanket.

gonna be birds. I love bird sounds in anything and so I just recorded it on my phone, shot that

R: It’s nice. I got you.

into GarageBand, and then made a little song.

That one’s just us talking about random stuff while

B: “July 13 Banjo” was just something to fill in

the interlude song so it was just something out

her size so we started harmonizing in a way with

of the air, but Oh Sees, when they were in their

them. The same with the kalimbas because I went

beginning stages, they made a song which I think

out and got one as well. I got a deeper tone, she

was called “Banjo Sold for Rent” or something

had hers, and just started messing around; it’s very

related to rent money. It was just literally random,

avant-garde and there’s not much structure to it,

they were plucking just random shit, but I liked it

or time. A lot of these pieces, I didn’t even have a

and wanted to do something like that. “Of Death

metronome going or have a set tempo. I just press

and Love,” I made that one with my sweetheart

record and if it comes out good, it makes the tape.

and it was kalimbas, me on sax, and then...

“Let it Out, it’s Okay” was a song that I made for my girlfriend. I think she was crying a lot that day,

R: You play sax?

some stuff was going on, so it’s a little acoustic song of me just messing around again thinking not

B: No, but I mess around on sax. [chuckle]

everything has to be perfect and so structured so it’s okay to kind of mess around, let things out hence

R: You can mess around.

“Let it Out, it’s Okay”. That’s how it came about.

“Virgin Mary Demo’’ was just me noodling with a

B: I can doodle around, yeah. Your Sam was just

kind of traditional classical guitar fingering style.

like, “Oh, as long as you can play a clean note,

At the time of recording, Samantha was just in bed,

you can play saxophone,” so I guess I play sax.

but she had one of the little Mexican blankets that

We always go to the folk…Folk Music Center?

had the Virgin Mary on it and didn’t know what to

That music Store, yeah, in Claremont, and I think

call the tune, looked at the blank, and I was like,

she started messing around with a zen bowl, I

“Okay.” [laughter]

think it’s called, where you tap it.

R: It’s a good story. [chuckle] R: Yeah, the singing bowl?

B: “Untitled Drone” was just the product of me B: Yeah so I bought her one and I think we started

listening to Drone 2 and wanting to fit something

messing around when we went back some time

like that in here somehow. It came out really pretty

after, but I think I was on a bigger one. She had

though. “Columbidae Sun.” Columbidae is actually,

I think, the scientific term for a pigeon. So, but the way it sounds, it’s very much...

R: So, your approach to music sounds organic.

R: Gonna need that written down, I’m not going to

B: Very much so, yeah. It’s kind of... What is... I

be able to transcribe that one. [laughter]

know it’s hard to describe the artistic process, especially since it’s, when it’s happening. Well, for

B: No, it’s like Columbus and then...Lumbidae.

me, when it’s happening, it’s kind of like a daze.

Yeah.

Kind of when you’re really in it, you’re kind of so

But the song is very Blackbird inspired so I

in it that you don’t really know how I got there, but

wanted to tie in a bird somehow and then sun

that it got there.

just sounded pretty with it. Track 11 was just the spoken word poem. I don’t know, I just wanted to

R: So what’s your process like? Do you start with

write something pretty and so I wrote down some

just kind of messing around and then it kind of

pretty stuff and finally put my voice on tape in a

develops or just describe... Pick... What’s one of

formal way. Yeah. [chuckle]

the songs that you really remember creating on this

last album, like maybe your favorite or maybe just

is 40 minutes, but there’s only two songs so each

the most fun?

are about 20 minutes. With my project, I think it was about 44 minutes, but there was only four songs.

B: On the last one?

My friend Gus and I, we did a 30-minute little jam,

I would say either “Of Death and Love” or maybe

I guess, or like a session so then we just split that

“Columbidae”, just because I had been working

up and then the other two songs just came about. I

on “Columbidae” for the longest time and it was

think with Garlic, I’ve just always loved soft acoustic

just an idea for maybe months. With a lot of my

songs. I don’t know. I was just like, “Okay, let me try

stuff, I’ll get the idea and I’ll just record it either

to make something like that now.” And it happened.

within that week, but I hadn’t done anything with

[chuckle]

it so I finally put it on tape and it was just really pretty sounding so I was happy to finally get it

“dreamy and spaciness

recorded. There’s this dreamy reverb on there that I try to emulate with the pedal, but it’s close

R: Do you have a certain sound you’re trying to

somehow, but on the song, there’s kind of more of

achieve when you put it together, because I love...

like a distant swelling to it, but it doesn’t create a

From my perspective, there’s like consistence, like

climax to where it just crashes or anything. As for

dreaminess.

the process, I listen to so much music, it’s annoying.

I probably have close to 6,000 song saved on

B: In a way, yeah. Yeah, just because I think, I’ve

my Spotify and with a lot of my stuff, now I just

never had a band or anything. The closest thing

listen for inspirations and if I like a certain style of

to a band is probably when I was at Norco and I

music, if I like a specific artist, I’ll listen to either

would be playing with other people, but my stuff

that artist or stuff similar to that style of music, and

has always just been me and the occasional feature

I’m just like, “Okay, I wanna try this.”

here and there. For the most part, it’s just been me so I think with the dreamy and spaciness of the

[chuckle]

songs, I just want to compensate for the lack of people included so that way if and when I get to

So that’s how Drone came about because I

perform such songs, it doesn’t feel so singular, so

listened to “The 12” Synth” by Osees. The project

it just feels like it’s very wide if that makes sense.

R: So the attempt is to make a well-rounded...

R: Trust me, I know all about Frank Zappa, because

Sound, kind of...Blooming.

of my partner, Sam. [laughter]

B: Yeah, exactly and there’s always a lot of reverb

B: Yeah, he did mention that his favorite album

involved and some delay here and there, but...

was I think Uncle Meat, and that was... You know

Yeah.

‘69 for the Mothers because I know it was a very weird time, not in general... Well I mean, it was a

Mac DeMarco, John Dwyer, Jim Croce, Frank Zappa

weird time in general, but he’s always been very avant-garde experimental and even his influences, like Edgard Varèse he was... It was almost scary sounding. I remember introducing Samantha to

R: Do you have major influencers to your sound?

him as well and there’s a lot that she doesn’t like just because of how weird it is and not structured it

B: Yeah, definitely. Early on, it was very much

sounds, but it’s okay.

Mac DeMarco, he was my biggest thing for the

Well, kind of like music for musicians, like there’s

longest time. Now, just a lot of John Dwyer, he’s

music for people that want to feel a certain way

the leader of Osees, but then he does venture

when they’re listening, but unless you’re a true

into freak jazz and a bunch of improv stuff and

nerd, you wanna hear all the sounds like you’re

that’s actually what the next project is gonna be

not…When you can understand poly rhythmics in

revolved around, just like improv or a very kind

the background, the drums are playing one time

of free-flowing, weird stuff. I don’t know how to

and then the guitar per se is playing in another

explain it, but yeah. So John Dwyer, there’s a lot

time.

of old kind of... What’s that word? Like acoustic artists I know, I love Jim Croce, have you heard

R: Freestyle or...

of him? He’s amazing. But yeah, Jim Croce is amazing. I love the Grateful Dead a lot, and for

B: Exactly yeah, that’s when you actually get

the weird stuff, I would say maybe Frank Zappa

to appreciate it and I think that’s why I gravitate

as well, like he’s...

towards it so much and just because it’s so weird

too, and...

I make CDs and I think for Drone, like the J-card format, it just looked really cool as a poster so I

R: Yeah, it’s grown on me, for sure.

made a small one too.

B: I think that’s one reason I love jazz so much

R: That looks great.

too, just because... Yeah, there’s a structure to songs, but then when they start improvising, it’s

B: There’s literally only two that we’ve done because

just... Everything’s off the top of their head. I

it’s just that one for me and one for Gus.

love jazz very greatly, it’s probably my second favorite genre, behind just general rock. Like it’s

R: It could be a lot of fun designing J-cards. We

my favorite generally yeah.

have done three cassette releases. Yeah, we did

Yeah, but I... I think just artists in general that

Jimmy Crates, he does local rap, but kind of ambient

aren’t scared to try weird things or new things or

stuff, it’s really interesting, Wundr., and then Schles,

just stuff that people might not like. I think that’s

which is experimental electronic and he’s in the

really cool too, just because they’re making it for

Bay Area, it’s one of Sam’s old frat buddies. Sam

their own purpose and it’s kind of what I do in a

and I are actually on one the tracks like… kind of

way. I’ll make my projects and I’m not some big

how, exactly how you described, you and Sam just

known artist, of course, so whenever I make an

kind of playing random instruments, there’s no real

album, I’ll typically follow with a physical release

structure to it.

like a CD or like for Drone, we did cassettes so I go into it just like I’ll make the CDs and if people

B: I think he told me about the violin story.

wanna buy it, cool, they can have it as well, but if not, my sole purpose in making CDs and music

R: Yes, he did violin and some vocals and I did... I

is just to get what was once in my head out to the

think I was on his bigger keyboard. Yeah, I don’t

world, and that’s...a thing.

even know the proper terms for this so I’m like, “Go play your piano.” He’s like, “It’s not a piano. I don’t

I love collecting vinyls, I love collecting cassettes,

have a piano.” Because pianos are very... either an

and I think just having something physical that

upright piano or a grand...

was once in your head is really nice. That’s why

R: Yeah, I think he is on a Korg, playing a loop that was kinda... It kinda sounded like how you would think a UFO would sound like. Like...

[vocalization]

B: That’s one thing that I love about that synth, actually, is ‘cause there’s a setting called “message from”, and it’s literally like your stereotypical like...

Like it’s just funny because it literally sounds what you would expect a UFO to sound like. This one’s really cool too because as it’s tuning, you can play a little game. [laughter] B: He’s like “You can do fake piano sounds.” [laughter]

R: But I was doing like bells or something, like the tone was like a bell or something, like...

R: That is so dope. How much was this?

B: I don’t know, actually. Sam bought this for me, probably like a couple of months into dating so I was like, “You’re really cool, you bought me a

B: Yeah, like a synth probably.

R: But the tone was like a bell, it’s like a synth thing. His friend, Noah Schlesinger, that’s where Schles comes from, he had different synths,

whole synth.” [laughter]

R: I bought Sam this keyboard after two months of dating and he’s like, “You bought me this giant ass freaking keyboard.” [chuckle]

basically, and it was basically playing these like...

B: Hell yeah, that’s the shit dude.

B: For that stuff, you had to have a good arsenal of synths and...

R: Yeah and now I bought him almost all his pedals.

B: Exactly. So the…

and then Garlic is soft acoustic stuff. The next album is gonna be improvised, experimental stuff.

[plays alien sounds] R: Yeah, for me it was like ambient, shoegaze.

R: Oh my God. [laughter] B: Yeah. [laughter] I’m like shoegaze, I don’t know, [music]

it’s noise, it’s good noise. [chuckle] Like I said, when I take influence, if my ear likes something and I

B: It’s just like...

feel up to the challenge of making something that sounds like that, then I will. [chuckle]

R: It’s like aliens are landing. That is so cool.

R: Yeah. One more observation for me, I think that’s B: And I mean, that’s the synth that I used for a

something that’s really interesting is that artists

majority of Drone and then that’s the one that I

that don’t want to put themselves in a box, usually

used on the drone song off of Garlic so it comes in

have a lot more room for opening themselves up

handy for very spacey sounding stuff.

to experiences, first of all, and experimentation which is where growth comes from. It’s kind of like

R: Would you say that you have kind of like a

constantly being a work in progress is where you

mission statement or a theme with your music.

wanna be, in my opinion.

B: If there’s a message, I’d probably just say, “If you

B: And it definitely gives you a lot more space and

wanna do it, do it.” I mean, that’s what I do and the

opportunity to find what you actually enjoy. Also

songs they don’t have much meaning, sometimes

like forgiveness of yourself if you can’t achieve the

they do, sometimes they don’t. My sound fluctuates

sound...

a lot there. I’ll get people asking me, “Oh, what genre do you play? Or what’s your sound?” And

And I mean, depending on the artists too, if they

I’m like, “I don’t know,” because it’s all over the

don’t like the way something came out, it just

place. Berts was more indie, alternative kind of,

crushes them, but I’m like, “Okay, and I tried it. It’s

Drone was heavily ambient synth, improvised stuff,

out in the world. It’s cool.” But yeah, I just try to do

whatever my ear likes, whatever my fingers are

It’s cool to feel sad every now and then because I

capable of doing, and so that’s where a good

think it’s the low points that really give you a sense

majority of this stuff from the last year onward is

of your good times and your highs in hindsight.

coming from.

It’s really nice, but then just... I think feelings in general, they’re capable of bringing a lot of people

R: Cool. So a wrap-up question because I’m

What does empathy mean to you? gonna be asking everyone this.

together, whether they realize it or not. You said, when I was performing, it hit you in an emotional way and I was like, “Oh, that’s cool. I’m glad it did.” So, and I mean, probably going into the project, I wasn’t thinking about, “Oh, this is gonna

B: It could mean a good couple of things just. If

make Rebecca feel this way on December 4, 2021,”

you empathize with someone, no matter what

but that’s what happened. And I mean, I think that’s

your circumstances are, you should always try

one thing that’s beautiful about music and art in

and understand or feel for whatever someone

general, just because it’s capable of bringing a lot

else is going through. If someone’s mean to you

of people together. With that, they can have new

or something, like yeah they’re mean to you,

connections, new friends, whether they be maybe

but what’s their home life like? What are their

a couple of months or like a couple of dates to life-

circumstances like now or in the past that have

long bonds and it’s a beautiful thing.

shaped that person into acting the way they are, the way that their personality is, or anything? But then empathy in general is just a lot of feeling. I mean, we all feel whether it’s strong or good or bad. We all feel as humans. I mean, if you don’t feel, that’s pretty bad.

“It’s cool to feel sad every now and then [laughter]

Nur Hussein, Girl with the Olive Earring, digital, 2020

Nur Hussein

Nur Hussein, Palestinian Gothic, digital, 2021

Nur Hussein, Over the Olive Trees, digital, 2021

I am a Palestinian creative. I am a creative writer, painter, and digital artist. My art supports Palestinian culture via self-expression and fosters an unapologetic reflection on Palestinian identity. Finding purpose in the pieces I make is vital in order to avoid any further marginalization of Palestinians in the modern world through the media, artworks, academia, and so on.

Creating is a way of resistance and survival in the Palestinian body.

Nur Hussein, In My Throbe, digital, 2021

Resilience Is In My Room Art and Essay by, Mizuki Smith Well deserved trophies sit on top of a bookshelf collecting dust. A trophy is awarded to me after getting a soccer ball in my face and falling into the mud. In that same bookshelf, an algebra and French textbook mingle together telling stories of the middle school and freshman years in which I took them. Those are the two classes I almost failed, but couldn’t afford to for fear of not graduating and going to a fouryear college. Now I can’t seem to get an email back from my college professors.

Resilience is my best friend and has always been.

The mess on my desk of unfinished art projects still has the intention of being completed, just when I’m ready to begin them. A depression that grew too big within in me stayed for too long that my motivation diminished. I had a best friend named creativity who decided to up and leave me. I brought it up to my therapist who then referred me to my psychiatrist who then prescribed me Zoloft. These new pills are my triumphant attempt to see another day through, but I’ve ended up feeling so dim. I sit on the phone laying in bed wasting away as I see my friends, colleagues, and acquaintances achieve more than I ever could. I’m only twentyfour, why am I in such a rush? My projects will always be there for me and the thought of finishing them is much more rewarding right now. But then I have to think, what happens afterward?

There’s only so much I can let anxiety control. When I walk into my room after work, after hanging out with a friend, I send in a sigh. I have the choice to begin a project or lay down and waste away the hours wishing I could start a project.

Anxiety has stunted me thinking that if I don’t do anything now, I will never be able to do it in the future, but the rush is a projection. I look at my trophies, old textbooks, and potential laying around (in a mess) my room and I see it all there before me.

Resilience is my best friend and it’s in my room.

Radical Unapologetic Expression An Interview with KIRSTEN JONES

by, CHRIS RUIZ

Artist Portrait by, Carolina Magaña Artwork by Kirsten Jones Kirsten is an avid “junk journaler”, an artist, and an advocate for ethical consumption. Through collaborative efforts, she has reduced her carbon footprint by buying as little fast fashion as possible.

Recognizing her

priviledge, she reflects on how we can use empathy towards uplifting eachother through fashion.

STUBBORN, RELENTLESS

C:I’m doing well. I’m very excited for this to be my first interview.

K: Oh I’m your first one?!

C: How are you this morning?

C: Indeed.

K: I’m good, I’m good. I’m feeling energized this morning.

K: Okurrrrr

C: Energized? Why’s that?

C: Okay so how would you describe yourself?

K: I think that lately I’ve just been on a health kick so I’m trying to kick out

K: Hmmmm

the food that’s been really holding me down.

C: You can make it a couple words, a whole paragraph…

C: Is that for the new year or…

K: I would say stubborn; stubborn K: Yeah, I feel that in the last year I

because when I think I know or want

just haven’t been eating good and I’m

something, I won’t stop. So in some

trying to not eat as much meat, but I’m

cases relentless, but not in a negative

failing. I heard that a lot of meat on

connotation. I think stubborn, like

this health spectrum is similar to like

strong-willed, also kind of go-getter,

cigarettes.

but I’m trying to work on that a little more. That’s what I want to be so I’m

C: That’s pretty bad.

trying to tell myself that’s who I am deep down to really unveil that side of

K: Yeah, it’s on the same level like

me. If you want it, just grab it because

maybe I don’t really need it. How are

I’m just really at this point in my life

you?

where if you want something, you’re

the only one that’s stopping yourself.

it’ll never feel that exact, same way.

Writing it down just like that and just

C: That’s true and you can also be

really vomiting your conscience onto

your main motivator too.

paper, when you look back at that with whatever growth or whatever

K: Exactly, it’s you against you.

knowledge that you gained from that point when you wrote it and

C: So a bit of a personal question,

forward, whatever you wrote stands

but I’ve known you since 2018, even

still. Maybe it’ll be interpreted in a

briefly worked with you between now

different way, but at the end of the

and then and something that hasn’t

day, whatever you wrote down is how

changed is you carrying around a

you felt in that moment so when you

Moleskin or journal of sorts, what

recall that moment, it’s the most true

does journaling do for you?

because memories are going to fade, they’re going to change…

“...whatever you wrote down is how you felt in that moment...

C: And the next day, you’re like “damn, what was I thinking?” or “what was I going to write?”

K: I think really, it’s like a really good

K: Exactly. Take people for example,

way to chronicle your life. I think

if I remembered somebody in a

that how you feel, I always proclaim

certain way and I wrote it down when

this: that how you feel in a certain

I knew that person and later on when

moment isn’t how it’s going to feel

memories fade or we had a falling

tomorrow. When you’re excited about

out, my perception will change and

something or when you’re upset

how I go about telling others about

about something, when something

them. Writing those things down in the

really touches you, in that moment,

moment is really the most accurate

depiction of anything.

diary” kind of stuff.

C: Because you’ve been carrying

K: Yeah, I think sixth grade. It was

them with you for so long, about how

before

many do you think you have now?

Actually, I know that I was about 11

middle

school

for

sure.

for sure. I was just doing more junk K: Oh my gosh, I used to have a

journaling which like, if you don’t

picture. Completed ones, maybe like

know what it is, collaging, just another

four, fully completed, cover to back,

form of journaling. It’s more collaging,

ones that I just have around my room,

more artistic, more creative, but still

I just went through my room, I have

journaling. Anything you find, I used

six that are standing, like they’re still

to save like receipts from events,

in use right now, and then I have 10

anything, it’s kind of when you just…

that are up there…

C: Like a scrapbook?

C: Like archived?

K: Scrapbook, exactly yeah! Some K: Archived yeah! Some that are

people do it where they literally

halfway through, some of them fully

collage on a page, some people

done, yeah. I’ll always hold onto

throw in random things, tape it in,

them, I don’t think I’ll ever let them go.

and write whatever memory about it,

I’m a hoarder.

yeah.

[laughter] C: I know you journal, but you also do C: When did you start journaling?

these fantastic watercolor doodles, when did you first get into that art?

K: Maybe like sixth grade?

K: I’ve always been into art since I C: It could be starting from like “dear

was really little and my parents put

me in art classes that didn’t last too

style, how would you describe your

long because I moved around a lot

fashion?

so I’ve always been more artistically inclined to like want to create, but with watercolor, I felt like it was just

FASHION IS EMPOWERING

the easiest medium. I use that or just doodle anything really.

K: Umm, I want to say…

C: Is there something about watercolor in particular that kind of caught your

C: I know it’s a broad question.

attention more?

*laughter*

K: I think the fact that it’s more

K: It’s a broad question, but I don’t

forgiving than a paint. With acrylic,

want it to sound like…

how it dries is how it’s going to look, but with gouache, which is what I’ve

C: Because I know you reach

been using more, it’s like as opaque

everywhere and…

as acrylic, but if you ever want to go back and change it, you just add water and it reactivates it again. It’s like watercolor, but more opaque.

C: You can have a little more fun with it.

“...sometimes when I’m feeling a little more “I can’t do this, I can’t wear this again”, then I’ll wear it even more for some reason.

K: Yeah and that’s really what I’ve been using the most.

K: Yeah, it’s kind of just like what everyone’s going through: whatever

C: And besides journaling and art,

is like your vibe in that moment. It

you have a very distinctly indistinct

sounds very whatever, but I think

sometimes when I’m feeling a little

outside is usually a lot more creatively

more “I can’t do this, I can’t wear this

encouraging. Some people probably

again”, then I’ll wear it even more

thrive in like Seattle, but typically

for some reason. If I’m feeling more

speaking, I probably thrive most in

comfortable, it just reflects my mood

the sun, in a place that I love like my

and that’s one thing I’ve always

stomping ground in San Diego, that

wanted to perpetuate through fashion

brings me back. It’s funny that you

is that regardless of everything else

say that too because I was driving,

going on, it’s really your own radical

listening to this song, and was like, I

expression. You should be true to you.

could picture myself just laying in San Diego right now, just on the beach,

PROTECTING SMALL BUSINESSES WHEN IT MATTERS MOST

doodling, drawing, just being in my element. That is where I really am the most me, the most unstoppable, it’s dangerous. For anyone really,

C: On the topic of fashion, what

when you feel the most powerful and

significance

unstoppable, it’s just you versus you,

does

Sunshine

Daydreams (clothing store in San

no one else.

Diego, CA) have to you?

C: And you picture this in the wardrobe K: Everything, oh my gosh, like…who

that you got from Sunshine, yes?

told you that? I don’t know I feel like when you find a little niche place or

“I’m radically myself.

fashion sense…as you know, I go to Ocean Beach all the time, during

K: Yeah. That kind of vibe of like “I’m

summer, I feel like everyone thrives.

me, I’m radically myself”, no doubt,

It’s when you’re the most creative,

nothing, it usually comes in through

the most in the sun, or even if you

not being creatively stimulated, like

don’t like the sun, just the brightness

when I’m in my room all the time where

there’s no sun, I’m not in my element.

too.

When I think about that place, that is what I want to be all the time, even

K: Oh definitely. They’ve been there

when I’m not there physically.

through…like I know their rent is

C: Was that store one of the first that

getting raised, but that’s why we

you fell in love with?

support them, especially now because that’s when they need it the most. You

K: Yeah, I think since they’re a small

don’t ever want to lose your shop just

business…

because they’re building more stores or building around like Target, that

C: Is it like a mom and pop shop?

sucks.

K: Yeah, usually with that city, Ocean

C: Do you know how long it’s been

Beach, San Diego, it’s a lot of locals.

there?

I’ve seen it get a little gentrified over the years which is sad but true. They

K: I don’t really know, but it’s been

added a Target and I don’t even want

there a long time. All the shops have

to get into what happens when you

been there for quite some time, I want

add a Target anywhere, but it’s just

to say at least like 10 years? It could

one of those things where when you

be significantly more, but just a guess.

find a place…just think about it this way, like I eventually want to own

C: Your 11-year-old self would go

my own clothing store, my own “buy,

crazy stepping in there for the first

sell, trade” so when I see one that’s

time.

thriving, they’re doing their thing, it makes me want to support that over

K: Absolutely, I’d be freaking out. I

something else.

think because that’s when I was going through an extreme hippie phase

C: I feel like it means more to them

because all their stuff is imported from

the Middle East and other countries so

know that during quarantine, a lot

they pay them a livable wage, which

of people couldn’t go to thrift stores,

is really important to me, and they sell

they live in small towns that don’t

it for a price that’s not going to be like

have those types of stores available,

two dollars, you pay a good price for

this is kind of a way to curate a shop

that, but it’s quality and you’re helping

that I can make for people that want

them out too.

to go into a place and find something they like at that moment.

C: It’s like a chain of helping people.

C: And this is online exclusive right K: Exactly.

now?

ROTATION SET

K: Right now, yes. I’m doing it through Depop, which I really want to stray

C: Extending on fashion, tell me

away from just because Depop takes

everything and anything you can

a lot of money out of it and I feel like

about Rotation Set.

that’s sad just because when I price something, I have to keep that in mind.

K: Oh my gosh. I think it’s long-

I pay for the shipping, I have to pay

overdue, definitely long-overdue. I’ve

Depop their share of the transaction,

wanted to do something like this for a

the fees, and it’s like 10%, which

minute. Especially with my Instagram,

sounds like a little, but it’s a lot. I want

it’s kind of like a forum. I wanted

to do more on Instagram so I’ll put the

a place where I could talk about

price on there. If you want to barter,

fashion, talk about things that I find

trade, anything, I’m always open to

make the most sense to me and other

negotiation. I just feel like that’s how

people about expressing themselves,

clothes should be and not have such

I also like it as a form of a side income

a capitalistic connotation to it. You

as well, buying and selling clothes. I

share clothes with friends…

I started it from being an online store, C: Just more easy access to it…

just a place to hang out and talk.

K: Yeah, just like sharing the same

C:

closet, we all need new clothes so it’s

very into fashion, which was cool,

like rotating the clothes.

but when you started posting your

I remember you were always

fashion and gaining comments and C: Ohhhh okay and when did you first

followers, the more professional page

get the idea to do this?

blew up immensely. It reflected from your TikTok too which you kind of

K: I had the idea a long time ago,

have a lot of followers on.

but originally it was Kirt’s Closet

*laughter*

which is now going to be fossilized as that. It was Kirt’s closet, but I knew it was just going to be a quick name, a place holder. I was doing that, really enjoyed it, and was like “ I could actually do something with this.” Inevitably, I want to have my own shop in Ocean Beach, in San

“You could flip it, you could sell it, you could do anything with something you have and the disbelief in your head is just from you.

Diego, anywhere around there so I better start now, create a following,

K: And you know what, I think I want

create a group of people that support

to do it just because what stops a lot

what I’m doing, that way when I have

of people is just disbelief. They think

to go out there, I will have already

like “I can’t, I can’t wear that, I can’t

done marketing for it. It’s not like,

style that, I have so many clothes that

“Oh, what’s this place that I’ve never

I bought years ago that I hold onto”

heard of?” Even though I’m sure some

like you could do something with this.

people won’t hear about it, some

You could flip it, you could sell it, you

people will go through knowing that

could do anything with something you

have and the disbelief in your head is

and you want to style it or just put it

just from you.

together with something else and be unapologetic about it then that’s you.

C: I think what’s very beautiful and

That’s fucking hardcore, just being

organic with what you do is that you

big about it, that’s so cool. I’ve seen

take random shit and put it together,

people do that, just having different

and granted you have a very specific

ways

body type so what you wear wouldn’t

through art, through fashion, when

go well on everyone to the general

you’re radically expressing yourself

public, but the way that you’re going

unapologetically,

about it to be like you can put this

more powerful than that. That to me is

with this, you can pair this with that,

everything.

of

expressing

there’s

themselves

nothing

you make it known that you can have endless possibilities with one outfit.

C: Like if own something, especially with fashion but realistically anything,

K: My inevitable goal with that is that

people are going to be like “oh shit,

anyone could do it.You know how like

they’re serious about it” whether it be

Ratatoullie’s “anyone can cook”, it’s

goofy, misunderstood…

like that… *laughter* …anyone can do fashion. I think sometimes an easy cop out would be

“There’s pieces that I’ve had for years that I will never sell

just finding something online that you want to take exactly word for word, I

K: Exactly. There’s things that people

don’t see it as plagiarism, but if you

that wear like “ I would never wear

take something off of a site, maybe you

that”, but does it look fucking awesome

found it cute, but that’s not necessarily

on you? Yeah. They’re rocking it and

an expression of you all the time. If

look super confident in it and that’s

you find a piece that you really like

what matters. There’s pieces that I’ve

had for years that I will never sell, like

have the perfect situation, I want to

these jeans for example, these are

experience life as it is. I grew up in

going to my kids, like hold onto them,

a very religious household and the

take really good care of them. Find

thing was always “live like Jesus” and

really good quality clothes, hold onto

when I got older, it was very like “you

them, and when you’re ready, trade

guys twist that a little bit”. He was

them, give them to people. There’s

literally walking barefoot just meeting

no major point in buying something

people, just making memories and

freshly new. I’ll buy something and

we’re over here getting back to work

I don’t even know who wore this,

as soon as we can to pay for things

what their life was, but they got their

so we can get this and that. Why is

kick out of it and when I’m done, not

everything about getting? Why can’t

loving it the way someone else could,

we just survive, thrive, and not be so

someone will love it a lot more than

greedy about it?

me. I’m loving what I have right now and I’m sure they were thinking that

C: It’s also really cool too just because

someone would like it too. Even if it’s

it’s better than just being an online

for like a year, the goal obviously isn’t

store where you post something flat

to see how fast you can switch things

on a bed or have it hanging, you

out, but if you wore it for a year and

actually in a way model and have fun

it’s really not you anymore, just give

with what you post, you walk around

it away, sell it, but that’s the thing; it

your room, you dance with Michael

has to be at least good quality or else

your dog, a little. It’s just nice because

it’s just going to go to shit to most. If

it adds more personality to what

there’s a hole in it, mend it, don’t get

you do which I feel draws a larger

rid of something good just because it’s

audience as well.

ripped, fix it. I feel like our generation is going to be big on that too, fix it,

K: When I was starting to think about

recycle it, buy used. I don’t want to

what I wanted to do with my life, for

a while I wanted to get into fashion

never would’ve guessed to style it that

and a big part of me was saying to

way” and that’s rocking for you.

not do it because it’s superficial. I had to stop myself to think of how it makes you feel when you find a

THE CHARACTER IN THE FAMILIAR

piece that expresses you and when you’re your most true self. That can

C: I mean even I have pieces that

pull someone out of a bad day. For

I’ve had since like 2018 probably

me, if I’m really not feeling it, if I’m

and it’s 2022 and I’m still loving them

hopeless, I get this random surge of

because they’re MY shirts. I wear my

energy to put on an outfit that makes

stuff down until I can’t whether it be

me feel like “daaaang, I want to go

because the collar splits or there’s a

out and do something”. It’ll make me

big ass stain on it, that’s just me. My

want to go to my favorite thfits or buy,

pants, I feel like as long as they don’t

sell, trade because I know if I walk out

smell like piss or anything, they’re

with a piece, I’ll want to hold onto it,

cool. I rewear pants no problem, just

feel good in it, make memories on it.

change out the shirts, and bam, you’re

You remember those pieces the most.

good.

Whenever I give a piece away, I always try to write down a memory

K: Adrian has this one shirt that he

that I had in it and tell them to make

bought. I think he bought it at the flea

a million beautiful memories in it too.

market the day we got engaged. It’s

I want to see how you rock what you

like a pink tie dye shirt; he washed it,

got.

but there was a pen in the wash so it has a giant black ink stain, but there’s

C: Kind of like you take this and have

a big black emblem on the graphic so

your own fun in it too.

it almost looks purposeful, kind of like matching. I just told him, “don’t even

K: It’s so cool to see like “oh my god, I

toss it, it looks really cool.”

C: I feel like that adds to the character

vibe. I have a couple button ups that

in the end…

are like Spring, Winter, Fall, you could wear them whenever. We live

K: It does!

in California so you could wear them pretty much whenever, all year round.

C: …just because it’s such a special

Those I feel like are super casual and

shirt and now it holds a greater value

never go out of style. I love things that

because of what happened in it and

are universal; if I could wear it with

the day it was bought.

10,000 different outfits, that’s the one.

K: And you can style it too with some

C: It’s funny because I remember

black sleek pants, maybe relaxed fit

when we worked at Tea Plus for the 6

or whatever, and then boom it looks

or so months I was there, you always

intentional.

wore this one super oversized Dallas Cowboys t-shirt, the light blue one,

C: With certain pieces, do you have

that’s all I remember you wearing. It

any favorites?

was you, that shirt, your tote, laptop, and a Moleskin or two.

K: Yes, yes I do. I have…probably my jeans are my favorite because those

K: No seriously, I still have all those

you can wear every day, no problem,

clothes, they’re still in my closet. I

no questions asked. I think for me, I

gave some of them away or passed

have this pair of jeans that are bell

them on, but for the most part, that’s

bottom, kinda low rise, but they look…

the thing, they bring back so many

and I found them at Goodwill for like

memories of like our first jobs.

5 bucks, they look like they have dirt on the bottom, almost acid-washed

C: Or the dirty white Nikes too.

on top, dirt looking like where it would go, by the pockets, it’s very much a

K: Yes, for sure, oh my gosh! It’s sad

though because I had those Air Forces

and involved because this is the time

then my dog chewed them up when

to do that. I have the most energy

he was a puppy, but I was able to

now, I can run around now, and after

keep the little metal thing at the end of

this, I’m going to be getting more

the laces. I’m sentimental so of course

inventory. I told Adrian, “let’s keep the

I had to keep something, I have

day going”. We were quarantining

pictures in them too.

together and when I told him that this is our year. Everyone is so focused on

C: Sentiment is big with me too so

COVID, waiting until 2023, but this is

you’re good.

[a] mind, body, + spirit moment, this

And I know you mentioned wanting

is your time to work on you. It doesn’t

to expand more creatively this year,

matter because you don’t need to be

how do you intend on doing so?

out to do that, you need to just focus on yourself. It’s so easy to get lost in

K: I think pushing myself, I just talked to

whatever everybody else is doing;

Adrian about this too, about creating

I spent so much time, Chris, so much

deadlines. I feel like I have a very on

time thinking I’m not there yet, I’m not

and off relationship with deadlines

doing this or that, but who cares? Who

because it can be kind of daunting

really cares?

and I feel like for some people, it can get very obsessive and really in their

C: It’s important to take baby steps.

head about it saying stuff like “I didn’t make the deadline, I’m a failure”, but

K: Yeah baby steps, there’s no time

for me, if I don’t have a deadline, it’s

limit.

never going to happen. I know by Summer, I want to be doing farmers

C: You’re going to end up there

markets with clothes and pop ups.

somehow too, so just take it easy while

I want to be posting more on Rotation

you can.

Set, I just want to be more active

K: Exactly. You just have to trust that

hundred dollars in my bag somehow.

everything is going to be okay and that

I really didn’t need to worry about

you’re exactly where you need to be.

anything. Of course I want to be

It doesn’t make any sense to compare

financially responsible, but I feel like

where you are to anyone else, it makes

some people get very scared when

no sense. I have to remind myself

they have a little less, like no, you can

about that constantly because I get

still do something with what you have.

in my head about it, [Adrian] gets in

Pen and paper can go a long way.

his head about it, everyone does; it’s normal… but it’s not.

C: Knowing you, I’m sure you have an abundance.

C: I mean everyone has their own

*laughter*

skill sets and abilities, but then also the amount of drive can differ. If they

K: If anyone needs it, I got it.

don’t want to do something on this day just because they’re not feeling it

C: To wrap up, what impact has

or they can’t because they don’t have

empathy had in your life and

the proper supplies to do so, then

how does it feed into what you

that’s okay too. As long as they get

do?

what they need to, what they want, whenever that is, then that’s all that

K: Oh my gosh. I feel like when

matters in the end, reaching that end

you told me the theme, I thought it

goal.

matched everything because well empathy to me, the way I could

K: Money’s a good example too

describe it, is just being mindful of

because there’ve been so many

everyone else. It’s really hard to not

instances where I’ve been broke, so

be selfish in a world that raises you

broke where I can’t even pay for gas

to be selfish. I don’t know how other

or anything and I’ll randomly find a

countries are as far as the way that

they’re taught or raised, but we’re

the stick. They struggle to make ends

raised in a capitalistic society. I’m not

meet while we’re over here partying it

going to diss on any society, but that’s

up. At the end of the day, you can’t

how we were raised. I mean there’s

fully

no doubt and we can’t argue that it

going through unless you’re in their

does in some ways impact how selfish

shoes, but you can try to show that you

we are. We’re all selfish in one way

care through your actions.

understand

what

someone’s

or another, whether it be needing more money or what, it’s because

You can dig more into Kirsten’s life

we were raised in the mindset of “I

and projects down below

work for my money, I have to get

Instagram: @rotation.set,

this, this, and that”, that’s a culture

@misskirstenjones

that we’ve cultivated. We’ve brought

Depop: rotationset

that into our homes and made it seem like that’s the end all, be all when it’s not. My friends laugh at me all the time, but I always say that we’re just here to learn. We’re in Earth school.

So I feel like being mindful of each other while we’re doing that process of learning who we are, who we’re going to be, and how we turn out, is the biggest thing ever. You know like being empathetic of our friends, loved ones. That should be our drive with anything. If you’re trying to combat fast

fashion,

compulsive

buying,

there’s people on the other side of that, that are getting the short end of

Creating a Feeling An Interview with BOB I

by, CHRIS RUIZ

All pictures provided by the artist.

Chris and Bob I reconnect in this fly-on-the-wall discussion recollecting on the projects they once cringed about, and that time Bob I got into Thrasher. Bob’s aim when creating music is to replicate emotions once felt through poignant moments in his life.

B: Just got Magic School Bus playing

of try and mix those together in a weird

in the back

way.

*laughter* C: Oh okay so, very digital-based kind C: Alright so how are you this

of music?

morning?

B: Yeah yeah, it comes together in B: I’m doing good, doing good. We

a weird way and from what I make,

got some Yerbas in, some sandwiches

you’d probably never expect that it

in.

would have those influences from the music coming out, but I think that’s cool

C: So to begin, how would you

because it ends up being something

describe yourself?

that’s just hopefully original I’d say.

I have a lot more guitar than those

B: I would say I’m a mutt of a million

sounds.

different subgenres and different areas of music and I’m kind of just in

C: And I mean seeing your equipment,

the center just taking it all in, soaking

I wouldn’t even think you’d have those

it all in, and trying to make something

influences either, but stuff comes from

new out of it.

random places sometimes and if you want to rock with it, you can and it

C: What are your favorite genres,

seems like you’re having fun making

either to listen to or to make?

what you’re making.

B: These days it’s been changing a lot.

B: I think it comes down to the feeling

I’ve been getting a lot of inspiration

those sounds give me and I try to

from like the OG Soundcloud rappers

recreate the feeling rather than the

but then also weird, glitchy pop, like

sound even. I try and be like, “oh what

hyper pop, Aphex Twin realm. I kind

could I make to give me that same

feeling?” It’s about recreating the

before I started skating.

feeling more than the sound in the end.

C: When did you start playing guitar?

C: So you try to recreate the feeling

B: I was about 7 or 8 when I had my

of when you first heard that piece of

first guitar and amplifier and stuff so

inspiration?

that kind of lasted all through skating and then slowly I think it took me

B: Yeah, just the overall feeling that it

getting injured from skating, like I

gives me and bring those two genres

broke my collar bone, and was just

together to make something new.

kind of at home getting more into the equipment that the artists I liked were

C: We used to skate all the time a

using, getting into watching interviews

couple years back and it was our

with musicians, getting more into the

whole life at the moment, but what

music culture, and that made me want

changed to get you so into music?

to create music myself.

C: It makes sense too because I feel

B: It’s crazy because I was always into

like with Thrasher videos or any skate

music throughout skating and it was

videos in general, they always have

always hand in hand with skating. I

such good soundtracks or songs to

would always pull inspiration from

go with them so it makes you ask,

music into my skating. There were

“what’s this?” or “what’s that?” Even a

times where music would inspire me

couple years back when you guys did

more than actually skating, watching

Pooligans (skate film by Tyler Reiff), that

skate videos and stuff, I’d be more into

soundtrack was amazing. You guys had

musicians or artists than the skaters. I

Zig Zags on there, Wavves too…

just always thought they were more creative I feel like. I was always into music and was actually playing guitar

B: Yeah for sure some old hitters…

C: But it’s all very garage rock and

comments regretfully…

some videos there’s stoner rock yet

*laughter*

with street parts, there’s more rap stuff

…well not regretfully, but looking at

as well. There’s just a big bubble of

the comments where it’s every comment

genres in the skate realm, but because

from, “sick, what song is this?” to like,

you were into both so heavily, that’s

“oh, shitty music, ruining skate parts”. I

now transferring over to you in the

thought it was super funny, but it was my

same exact way.

first time learning about what comes with a wide audience; it was a good learning

B: Yeah, I guess so. I guess that’s why

experience. I was super hyped to get in

I was never like trying to put myself

there though because I remember when I

into a box because with skate videos,

was skating and stuff, I would be seeing

you get all different types of music so

people get their songs in Thrasher on a

I would end up liking it in some type

skate video as well as them being skaters

of way, just the energy of the music

like that’s so crazy so to finally get my

going with the skating.

song into a Thrasher part was a good realization.

C: You landed one of your songs in a Thrasher video recently too, what was

C: And you’ve been featured in Thrasher

that like for you?

too right, like a couple of pictures here and there?

B: It was crazy. It was a crazy experience. It was just weird being

RB: Yeah, just some photo graffitis. It was

exposed to that wide of an audience

never for an ad or anything, but yeah,

for the first time in forever or the first

been in a few of those, kind of like a big

time ever honestly. When that large

collage of peoples images.

of an audience comes, there comes a lot of opinions in every type of

C: Diving into music, I know your recent

way possible. I was looking at the

pseudonym was known as Düel Vessels,

where did that come from?

electronic, but I wasn’t even pulling from electronic influences really. I

B: Düel came from early quarantine.

was pulling from more like Cluster,

Basically when everything was shutting

early krautrock, NEU!, and very much

down, I had a lot of time inside, not

that early 70’s German wave. When

really doing anything. As far as the

I finally got my tape machines, I was

name, it came from me living in this tiny

trying to mix electronics with tape

room at the time with just all this gear that

and thought it was super cool. Putting

I had that essentially took up the whole

out the EPs though was a completely

bedroom so it’s kind of just like gear

different vibe, but who knows, maybe

and bed. I really just came from that

everything recorded on those tapes

and having all of it on this big ass table

will be released someday in the next

and seeing all this gear in front of me

five years or something once it goes

and thinking it was like a duel between

back to its original being.

all these vessels, trying to function all of them, and all of it coming together.

C: Tell me about Redder and Plerb.

It was super weird though because the sound that it ended up being is like way

B: Oh no…

different from what it started out as, like

*laughter*

all the stuff I have recorded on tape is a

You always have those, those early

completely different sound than the EPs

projects that you can kind of cringe

that I have out so it really turned into

out about. You don’t really know

something different before anything

which direction you want to go in,

came out.

but I’m glad they happened. Even the Plerb stuff I’ll look back on every now

C: What did it start as compared to

and then, and won’t completely cringe

what it ended up being?

at some of the stuff. I’m glad I mixed that well for how long I had been

B:

It

began

as

definitely

more

doing music for at that time. It had

probably been like two years that I

skate premier and they wanted me to

was doing Plerb stuff and recording

play it. This was a month out at this

it all myself. Plerb was fun, definitely

point and I was kind of iffy on the

a lot of influences going into that, a

whole thing because I had no idea

lot of 80’s techy electronic, Kraftwerk,

how I was going to do it, I hadn’t even

Devo-esque vibes.

planned, but was like, “whatever” and just make something happen,

C: And Redder was garage rock type

seems like a fun time. It was a good

of stuff right?

turn out, just getting the energy from the audience was really cool for the

B: Fuzzy garage rock, not really

front man vibe since it was just me up

knowing how to play instruments too

there. A lot of people turned out and

well, just being inspired by garage

ended up going as well as your first

rock I guess. It was fun times, got to

show could possibly go.

have a couple garage shows out of my house, but good times to reminisce

C:Whenever you play shows, do you

on I’d say.

ever get nervous? Do you freak out a little bit? Do you not feel your hands?

C: Because you got to perform under

How do you feel before a show?

multiple aliases, what’s it like playing a show for you?

B: I’m trying to remember. I think leading up, I was never really too

B: It’s very fun. I’ve only played

nervous because of the way I was

two with Düel so far and it’s funny

going to be playing the live set. I

because I was never having any

wasn’t really functioning too much; I

intentions whatsoever on playing any

was playing the backing tracks to the

Düel shows, like even playing it live at

songs and then adding on top of it,

all. It came down to one of my friends

playing keys and such, so the backing

hitting me up because there was this

track was going to keep me in place

anyway. I could just add on these key

a backwards way of working. The

parts that weren’t on the song, vocal

visuals, cartoons, that’s what starts it

parts. I definitely like the fact of not

off that would make me want to start

being too tied to an instrument and I

making a song and then I’ll usually

was able to do the front man thing,

lay down the song on voice memos

but going from that, I want to get to

first and then I’ll do a rough structure

a place where I’m functioning with

demo of it.

an instrument going forward with the new stuff I’m going to be releasing

C: I feel like that’s where all the good

with these tapes. It has a lot of guitar

songs start anyway, just to kind of get

and everything, so with the upcoming

a riff down.

shows, I’ll probably be playing guitar and it’ll be more of a functional set I

B: Yeah, I really love voice memos

feel like. I can’t wait for that.

dude. It picks up really good shit.

I’ll play the drum machine out of an

C: When you’re making everything,

amp, play guitar through an amp and

what’s your usual creative process?

usually lay it down that way and within the next couple weeks, I’ll decide if I

B : These days, I’d say watching

actually want to go through with this

cartoons is what has been giving

song, go from there, and hopefully

me inspiration to create sound and it

finish the song.

always goes back to me wanting to create a feeling. I’ve been getting a lot

C: On the topic of demos and

of inspiration to create sound through

precursors to actual releases, can you

sight, through what I’m seeing. These

tell me about Douglas Milk?

posters sometimes give me sounds that I would want to make. If this was

B: Ahhhh, okaaaay, yeah that’s a

an album cover, what would I want

project I’m working on with my friend

that music to sound like? Almost like

Bella. We decided to start doing

that probably mid last year. It was

sounds good”, just getting to a place

whenever I was working on all that

where I’m better at recording and just

folk stuff that I wanted to put out but

recording a lot. I want to put out a lot

never got around to finishing because

more than I did last year and it seems

I moved on too fast, but that’ll

like it’s going at a good pace at the

probably end up being Douglas Milk

moment.

stuff all those songs because it would be good with that. It’s going to be me

C: Do you plan on doing physical

and Bella, be more acoustic-based,

copies of those releases or keeping

real drums, and probably record all

everything online?

that on tape. It’s going to be a nice little folk project.

B: Oh, totally. Yeah because I’ve never done…I’ve never done physical

C: That’s really exciting. What does

copies, dang I just realized that. This

the next year or two look like for you

next project I have is called “Sudden

in regards to projects?

Myths” and for the first release, we’re going to be putting out some songs on

B: Well in the next year since we

tapes so we’ll be releasing cassettes

just entered this new 2022 zone,

and hopefully get it on Soundcloud

I’ve been trying to get to a place

and all because I’ve never put

like we talked about earlier where

anything on there so it’ll be a new

we’re satisfied with putting music out

platform to put something out on.

ourselves and make it sound up to par with our standards, look back at

C: With Soundcloud, would you hope

it, stand behind it, and be proud of

to do Apple Music or Spotify as well

it. I just want to be in a place where

or keep it more lowkey?

I can release music from here in my bedroom and it sound good enough

B: No, I’ll probably put it out

to where I can be like, “oh yeah, that

everywhere and like TikTok and stuff.

*laughter*

and just be catching an eye here and there, a side eye from an older person,

C: That would be cool. Now for a

but I retired that hat. It no longer has

random question: referencing a hat I

function or is being worn. My dog

saw you in once, does country music

chewed it up after that show so…

still make you horny?

C: Second to last question: why do B: Oh yes, every time dude. Everyone

you create?

was asking me about that. I would wear that in public restaurant settings

B: I would say to create emotion. For

me, when I listen to music, I’d say I

making enough, and I could feel those

search for more of an emotion through

things too. Recently, I’ve been trying to

the sound rather than the lyrics even.

learn to give myself credit for what I’ve

I try to just deliver an emotion to

done in the past rather than thinking

someone else that came from me. I’ll

I should be working more right now.

pull an emotion from anything like

Even these days, I’ve been thinking

we were saying earlier, cartoons or

that there’s time going by and I’m not

these posters I have on my wall, I’ll

making enough, but then you just have

try to create that emotion through

to slow down, look back, and I realize

sound and hopefully someone else

I made like 20 songs in the past two

can feel that same thing. That’s kind

months. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

of why I want to create soundtracks

I just want to look back and give myself

or like scores for a movie. I’d watch

credit for what I’ve done and then

a scene happen and then add my

inspiration just comes naturally. I think

own interpretation of how it would

we should just carry a bit of empathy

make me feel into sound. I would say

within us.

I create to evoke emotion.

C: Seeing as how you create music C: With evoking emotion, how would

to evoke emotion, it seems like you’re

you say empathy ties into what you

already doing a good part on your

do?

own to channel into other people’s feelings as well so keep it up man.

B: A lot dude. I feel like everyone should hold a little bit of it within

For a closer look and listen to the life of the creator

themselves,

himself: feel free to do your research, discover, get

especially

as

artists.

From every artist I hear talk about it,

lost, and feel the emotion of it all.

everyone’s kind of hard on themselves

Instagram: @b27.nine

and can think they never work hard

Bandcamp: Düel Vessels

enough, being productive enough,

Featured Thrasher Video: Josh Douglas’ “Air’s on Fire” Part

Mia Bruce, Grasp, oil paint on canvas paper, 2022

Droopywing, It’s Like They Thing My Heart Doesn’t Bleed, digitized photograph, 2022

Samantha Orellana, Birds in Love, collage, 2022

Samuel Signer, Untitled, mixed-media collage, 2022

HIGH DESERT TEST SITES

9 new site-specific works in Pioneertown, Yucca Valley, Joshua Tree and Wonder Valley.

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For more information please visit www.highdeserttestsites.com Or email info@hdts.site i: @highdeserttestsites OPENNING WEEKEND APRIL 9–10

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