CURIOUS Magazine | Empathy + Resilience | Winter 2022

Empathy + Resilience

Volume 4 No.2

Actually Curious X Curious Publishing Threadless Design Challenge with art by Char Bataille, Dtello, Nicholas Aceves, Rodrigo Ferreir, John Tibbott, Elizabeth Douglas DeArmond, Félix Pimenta, Cass Alberda, Mulyana Yusup, Danmir Mercado, Maren at Weird People Design, Maren at Miseducated Pixel, Amie Colosa, The Female Faceless

The Secret Behind My Empathy with Michael Tennant, Founder and CEO of Curiosity Lab

The Empathy Soapbox Project with Lauren Verdugo, Jordan Velez, and Rebecca Ustrell

Rebecca Ustrell, The Artist Interviews with, Bertsdude

Kirsten Jones

Bob I

With Artworks by, Jegan Mones (Left Artwork)

Nur Hussein

Mizuki Smith

Mia Bruce

Droopywing

Samantha Orellana

FIRST PLACE

Char Bataille, Nourishment , 2022 |

@charbataille on Threadless

Char Bataille is a multidisciplinary artist in Montreal, their mediums include tattooing, latte art, illustrations and transforming found objects. They explore subjects like mental health, ugliness, resilience and love.

Threadless Design Challenge

ACTUALLY CURIOUS + CURIOUS PUBLISHING THIS PAST HOLIDAY SEASON, WE PARTNERD UP WITH THREADLESS TO BRING A MERCH DESIGN CONTEST CHALLENGING ARTISTS TO EXPLORE LOVE AND EMPATHY BY SUBMITTING DESIGNS THAT SPARK MEANINGFUL DISCUSSIONS WHICH BRING US CLOSER TOGETHER. WWW.THREADLESS.COM/ACTUALLY-CURIOUS

This challenge received over 600 submissions from artists all over the world. Designs ranged from typographical art, illustrative designs, collage, graphic design and photography. Three winners were chosen in February 2022. First place was awarded to Char Bataille for their design entitled “Nourishment”

(left). Fist place received $1,000 cash, all four decks of the card game Actually Curious, + a one-year subscription to CURIOUS Magazine. Congratulations, Charline! Here are the winners of the contest, and some of our favorite submissions.

Rodrigo Ferreira, The Path to Empathy , 2022

@rodrigobhz on Threadless

John Tibbott, A Smile is Just the Start , 2022

@quick-brown-fox on Threadless

John Tibbott, Freedom is a Human Right , 2022

@quick-brown-fox on Threadless

Elizabeth Douglas DeArmond, Circle of Life , 2022 @Babsadee on Threadless

Elizabeth Douglas DeArmond, Compassion Connection , 2022 @Babsadee on Threadless

Félix Pimenta, Empathy is Magical , 2022

@felix_pimenta on Threadless

Cass Alberda, Eat Up , 2022 @buscrashh on Threadless

Danmir Mercado, Worldwide Empathy , 2022 @dampa on Threadless

Maren at WeirdPeople Design, Kindness is the Antidote , 2022

@WeirdPeople on Threadless

Maren at WeirdPeople Design, Empathy Vaccine , 2022

@WeirdPeople on Threadless

Maren at miseducated pixel, Elixirs of curiosity – Love , 2022 @miseducatedpixel on Threadless

Maren at miseducated pixel, Elixirs of curiosity – Freedom , 2022 @miseducatedpixel on Threadless

Maren at miseducated pixel, Elixirs of curiosity – Human Rights , 2022 @miseducatedpixel on Threadless

Maren at miseducated pixel, Elixirs of curiosity – Empathy , 2022 @miseducatedpixel on Threadless

The Female Faceless, The Tetris of Empathy , 2022 @Femalefaceless on Threadless

The Secret Behind My Empathy

TENNANT , FOUNDER

With MICHAEL

&

CEO AT CURIOSITY LAB and CREATOR of ACTUALLY CURIOUS

Illustrated by Rebecca Ustrell

Michael Tennant, is an award-winning media, advertising, and nonprofit veteran for companies like MTV, VICE Media, P&G, CocaCola, and Google. In the 2000s, he sat front seat to the rise of VICE, today’s leading voice in millennial media, and brought with him a dedicated approach to long-term authentic community building. He created Curiosity Lab to be a radical example in media and advertising of business diversification and progressively inclusive hiring practices.

Today, Curiosity Lab is a growing product, content, and consulting business that uses storytelling to drive change.

How have you used empathy to practice resilience in your everyday work routine?

Empathy and consistency have been my guide and the secret to my recent good fortune. At first, this routine of consistent empathy check-ins with myself literally saved my life. When I learned of the passing of my older brother, I turned to the habits that gave me a guaranteed instant escape, drugs, and alcohol.

It was when my body seized up and I thought I’d have a heart attack if I went to sleep, that I knew I needed to form some other habits or it would cost me my life.

From a life or death situation to living every day as though it might be my last. Reflective questions became my default. Questions like, if today was my last on this earth, how would I want to spend it? Or, if the way I’m spending my time, with this person, or that task, doesn’t feel good to me, then what’s the point in me doing it?

Empathy, my dear friends, is not about how I treat other people. It’s a part of it, yes, but the real daily consistent work is more about how I respond to the emotional

quality of what I encounter. How am I feeling? How are those who are involved feeling?

It is a different orientation toward the world than what I was taught, or what I know naturally, so it really does take daily practice.

The good news is that this approach has allowed me to work at a high level, while also listening in for signals that I need a break in order to remain resilient. My body has some consistent ways of warning me about burnout. My shoulders might get tense. My skin might be sensitive to the touch. These are extreme cases that I’ve only recently learned.

Some relatable ones to most people might be the pit that might develop at the top of my abdomen every time a name or situation is brought up. Or a situation that visits me in my sleep, my meditation, or when I’m trying to rest and be at play. These were once the very situations that I drowned in a bottle and obsessed over with willing commiserates and some lines. Today, these are the uncomfortable situations that I address head-on with myself and the ones that I love.

I lost my brother on July 19th, 2019, a Friday. I spent the weekend journeying to my emotional and addiction rock bottom. On Monday, July 22, 2019, I started the daily routine you find on the next page. And the rest

MY DAILY ROUTINE

YOUR TURN...

Use this space to create your ideal daily routine, or to investigate your current routine.

Tip: Be gentle on yourself! Only you know what works for your schedule. Make sure to make time for rest, play, and passions.

Bring people together. Create emotional connections. Promote active listening. Practice Empathy. Share local narratives. Repeat.

The soapbox is a platform for progress.

Though we do not use wooden shipping boxes in our post-plastic era, the iconic image of a person on a soapbox, speaking to crowds that gather on corners, continues to inspire and elevate voices of the working class, marginalized voices, and revolutionary thinkers. The Soapbox Empathy Project aims to provide that same platform to those in our local community while creating a conversation that encourages empathy and understanding of our neighbors, family, and friends. The human experience is not lived alone. Our environment, political climate, and our respective cultures' are unique to us. Empathy, listening, and understanding are universal and essential to our sense of peace and purpose.

This episodic series will be 3-5 minutes long per episode, and will begin with the soapbox being placed by its creator, a visual metaphor for lending their platform for those who may not have one. The participant will then stand on top of it and speak their truth straight to the camera.

PROPOSAL

The Soapbox Empathy Project is a video series that will amplify the voices of underrepresented members of our community while using one question and asking it to 3-5 different people. This will prove to create completely different answers with the same question.

1. This intimate video vignette will begin with a participant pulling a card from an Actually Curious card deck created by Curiosity Labs.

- This question acts as a prompt for the participant to answer.

- They step onto the soapbox and respond to the question.

2. We will then cut to a second then third participant answering the same questions, providing a contrast between answers.

- Videos will be IGTV length, 2-5 minutes with instagrammable 60 second length versions for promo as well.

3. Closing scenes of the participant walking off as the screen fades out

- Sponsors, collaborators, and contributors will be recognized in the credits and the beginning.

** The soapbox that the participants will be standing on can have the Curiosity Labs/Empathy Card Deck logo laser engraved on it to advertise where these questions are coming from while recognizing our partner for this project.

Questions we would like to start with inspired by the decks of cards:

“If I could redo one moment, good or bad, I would _______________.”

“I knew I finally made it when ____________________.”

“I feel most free when ____________________________.”

“What does empathy

LOCATION IDEAS

Abandoned lot in Upland

Claremont Packing House

Train Station in Ontario near Chaffey Community

Museum of Art

Maloof Foundation Garden

PRODUCTION CREW

Director/Filmmaker - Jordan Velez

Producer/Artist - Lauren Verdugo

Director/Producer - Rebecca Ustrell

Gaffer - TBD

Lighting assistant - TBD

PROJECTED BUDGET/COST FOR

3 EPISODES:

5 Crew Members: $3,000.00 - $4,000

40 hours of Jordan Velez filming and editing

15 hours for both Rebecca Ustrell and Lauren Verdugo for production and execution of “on set” filming and organization

15-20 hours for a gaffer or lighting assistant

Rental equipment: $1,200.00 - $ 1,500.00

Lights/Reflectors

Special lenses

Sound equipment

Buy/build once for all episodes: $800.00 - $1,200.00

Dolly rig

Clip mics

Soapbox

AN EXAMINATION OF IMMERSIVE UNICORN

A SERIES OF WORKS EXPLORING LOSS, RESILIENCE, AND LEANING ON THE COMMUNITY AS A TOOL OF SELF- PRESERVATION. With art and illustrations by Rebecca Ustrell.

TW: Language, Drugs, Violence, Depression, Sexuality, Miscarriage, Graphic

Rebecca Ustrell, the Artist

Rebecca Ustrell at the reception of Immersive Unicorn at Curated Chronicles, December 11, 2021

JUNE 23, 2020

CLPPNG blares on the stereo of his champaign BMW as we race back from a very hot and amorous day at the beach somewhere at the end of Orange County.

I have always found pulsing and hard bass a form of meditation and cleansing. The throbbing synths and harsh vocals compel me to zone out at the horizon of the long overpasses and desert landscapes. On days like this, time behaves how I imagine it in indie films - drawn out, almost boring, but something significant in every small detail of the day. Sam and I exchange jokes and talk shit about the disappointments in our life. It’s a form of therapy that only works when someone really knows you, someone that knows that you’re just being hyperbolic when you say shit like “I work so much fucking harder than people know.”

We’re heading back to my new-ish place of residence, a room at a friend’s home in Lincoln Park where I live with two roommates M and H. We park the car and

start unloading from our day trip. A joint in an Altoids container, a box of cigarettes, a blanket, and some card games. It’s the middle of the first year of the Pandemic, yet somehow we’re both employed at arguably nonessential jobs - luxury wine and spirit shops - so we part ways that night in order to make it to work the next day.

I indulged in the usual routine at home that night: drew a bit in the newly converted covered porch/art studio, fed Phonte and retired early that evening. The house was unusually quiet that night so I fell asleep rather easily. Both of my roommates were out either at a party or working late at the restaurant which they both spent a significant amount of time at.

JUNE 24, 2020 - THE FIRE

I woke suddenly around 3am to the sound of my roommate M shouting at the other end of the house. This wasn’t inherently alarming in that we have been known to have impromptu parties at all hours of the night quite frequently. This time was different. I closed my eyes and

a few minutes later I hear him scream, “Rebecca get out of the fucking house right now.” I’m naked and struggle to switch a light on to get on clothing as I attempt to calibrate my eyes and figure out what exactly is going on. Phonte is curled up at the end of the bed and looking at me with a crooked head. “Rebecca! FIRE!!” Now I am fully panicking. I opened my bedroom door and a bright orange light glowed from the living room. An intense heat radiates from the light and hits my face with a strong gust of wind. I quickly shut the door and open a window, throwing Phonte out. All of this was instinctual. I don’t know if I actually perceived the reality of my situation but I knew I had to act quickly. I grabbed my purse and passport and jumped out of my window. I am standing on the lawn when my emotions catch up with me.

Holy shit, the house is on fire. Where is H? Where is M? Are the animals all out?

It’s too dangerous to go back in.

THE MENTAL TOLL - PTSD

Do you ever get caught in a loop in your head? Sometimes the audio of a song you listened to won’t stop playing over and over, sometimes it’s something someone said to you.

The portion of time between the 3 AM and 11 PM on that day, June 24, 2020 is an intense, scrambled explosion of recollections. I spend the night experiencing auditory hallucinations hearing H screaming in pain from 2nd degree burns, smelling whiffs of ash from the house fire, and hearing CLPPNG playing over and over in my dreams which last around 1 hour before I shake myself awake throughout the night. The room I am now in is pristine, and the sterility of the surroundings makes the reality of my situation seem fictional. I am sleeping at a friend’s place a couple of cities over. Their condo has a spare room usually used as an AirBNB. The bed is huge, and the room is the size of a cave. I get up to use the bathroom and I see a strange and twisted face in a window nearby, it’s my reflection in the mirror.

Charred Remains of Curious Book, iPhone Image, June 24, 2020 A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

I lost all of my possessions that night except for what the fire department, and my partner Sam were able to salvage from the ash-caked room I once dwelled in. I was able to recover my new computer which I bought for my start-up Curious Publishing, some cherished stuffed animals, and some books. My clothes were un salvageable and all of my artwork and inventory for Curious Publishing did not survive. My roommates weren’t as lucky. Their rooms were reduced to a pile of ash.

“SHE’LL BE FINE”

I think that there’s this misconception that people like me couldn’t possibly be struggling or have a dark side. From the outside I am an innocent, young, Latinx Womxn who works in the nonprofit sector. A community leader for projects in two towns I lived near, and now a successful Project Director for a start up in the arts. When the house fire happened it forced me to slow down and reflect on how far I’ve come, and realize what I wanted for myself.

Pomona Bedroom, iPhone Image, June 25, 2020

A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

THE CHASM

2020 was not an easy year for me up to this point. On April Fools Day I had a miscarriage. I held a small burial and ceremony in a remote location in Upland with my partner Sam in the middle of a quarry on a sunny day. I spent a bit of time reflecting on my mortality and sexuality through various illustrations featuring Womxn in fantastical erotic scenarios - and slept and slept and slept. I fell into a deep depression and wanted nothing but the company of my cat and to drown my sorrows indulging in films like Midsommar . Yeah that dude totally deserved to be sewn into a bear and lit on fire, I thought to myself. Luckily, my body bounced back quickly and I was able to proceed for a long time as if it never happened. Around the time this happened, I was coming off of a short but intense cocaine habit which lasted around 2 years. It was not my first experience

Phonte, iPhone Image, Spring 2020

Bye Bye Baby, iPhone Image, April 2020

A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

with addiction, and at the time, I couldn’t say if it would be my last since it is a self-identifying truth. A month before the house fire was the death of George Floyd where I found myself scrambling to contribute what I could to fighting police brutality through art activism and cash donations. Sam and I were working on a series of illustrations called “The Social Justice Tarot”, and I decided to sell one of the pieces as a print, donating all proceeds to the Minnesota Freedom Fund. A recurring theme throughout the illustrations was fire, coincidentally.

CONTINUING THE WORK, DESPITE IT ALL

From my perspective, it seemed like all of the huge accomplishments I had made with Curious Publishing were suddenly tiny and not enough to keep the community inspired, but nonetheless, I continued my project as each edition of CURIOUS came out with stronger features than the issue before. Community support for Curious was overwhelming and I credit the Inland Empire for keeping it alive throughout the Pandemic. What I didn’t believe until after the fire was

From the Social Justice Tarot Project by Rebecca Ustrell & Samuel Signer, 2020

that Curious is self-sustaining and beyond my control. It’s truly a community-owned project at this point. I try to listen as often as possible to what people want to see represented in our projects and make sure that the project continues to have a positive impact on the community. I find that now I lead best when I am an active listener, and an advocate for underrepresented artists.

REBECCA THE BLANK

Most people know me one of two ways: Rebecca Ustrell, the Founder of Curious Publishing, or Rebecca, the artist. One persona, the Founder, is public facing and approachable. I’m the person to help you get your print project accomplished, the person who might be able to get you into a gallery show, the person who definitely knows the next art event happening near you that you should be a part of…Rebecca at Curious Publishing is your ally and always available to hear your ideas and help you troubleshoot an art musing. Then there’s Rebecca, the artist, a semi-publicly known, but mysterious person who over-shares online, and

Untitled , india ink on paper

From the series “Lush”

By Rebecca Ustrell 2018

under-shares in person. Rebecca an artist is known for her erotic drawings decorated with lush flora and fauna. She is eager to experience everything possible in life and isn’t afraid to indulge in whatever may ignite her passion and bring inspiration. What few people have seen is the deep void that lives within me.- the child I felt inside of me was crying out for protection and comfort. Why am I here? Why doesn’t anyone know what I need ? Why can’t I seem to escape tragedy? Why do bad things always happen to me?

PEAKS AND VALLEYS

I am a sexual assault survivor and a victim of child abuse. As a form of self preservation, I will not go into a detailed account of these experiences. However, I find it important to acknowledge it as an experience that identifies me and influences how I perceive and interact with others. I have issues with intimacy and trust which continue to affect my relationships today. I believe that because I didn’t receive therapy growing up, I wasn’t able to begin learning how to cope until I had formed more concrete opinions about myself, and how the world works. I know that this void I feel inside is a place that

will always be there, but will only be as large as I allow it to become. I’ve now learned that the spiritual vessel that is Rebecca is as infinite as the universe. And with an infinite universe comes endless possibilities, paths, peaks and valleys to cross.

Sam + Me, iPhone Image, Fall 2020

A photograph from the artist’s personal collection.

IMMERSIVE UNICORN

In my new series, Immersive Unicorn, I attempt to override these deeply painful experiences with a colorful retelling of my personal anguish through vibrant panels inspired by the Unicorn Tapestries made in the South Netherlands around 1495–1505 mixed with my personal take on lowbrow, pop-surrealism.

The piece that has the most compelling imagery in the series so far is “1,2,3 Easy Street” (LEFT) 2021. This self portrait is a composite of defining moments of my transition to adulthood and my own experiences as a would-be mother. The smiling kewpie baby accompanies me and my beloved cat as we catch a train to our next adventure. Plenty of snacks and laughs along the way.

Baby and Me are dressed in matching clown collars, eager to put on a show for anyone we cross paths with. We’re delighted to meet you and excited to add your story to our never ending scrap book of laughs.

1,2,3 Easy Street , Posca Marker on paper, 2021

The first work in this series “Immersive Unicorn No.1” (RIGHT) is a reinterpretation of the Unicorn Tapestries which originally depicts a unicorn with a collar, tied to a palm tree, and enclosed in a circular pen amongst a field of wildflowers. In this version, the unicorn does not make an appearance, and instead you’re left with a palm enclosed in a circular pen. It forces the viewer to ponder what should be held captive, or what has escaped captivity. From my perspective, the viewer is the unicorn, running through each panel of this series on a wild adventure.

I believe deep pain transforms us. As a form of escapism, I chose art as a tool to reclaim my pain. As humans we regenerate our cells constantly, and I believe that to be true of our capacity to thrive. There is no empty chasm within any of us, only deep pools which can be traversed. There’s new land on the other side more beautiful than we’ve ever seen. And I don’t mean some higher ethereal power shit. I mean visceral and real, pulsing beauty - the vessels that hold us.

Immersive Unicorn , India ink and acrylic on paper, 2020

Now that I’ve gotten all that out of the way…

They Don’t Come Here Often, Do They?, India ink and acrylic on paper , 2021

By, REBECCA

On December 12, 2021, I took a trip out to the outskirts of Eastvale to meet with an artist that had been on my radar for the better part of 2021. Bertsdude (Chris Ruiz) had reached out to Curious Publishing on several occassions to inquire about a feature in one of our printed magazines. What he didn’t know at the time was that I was going through a major transition in my career and had seriously neglected my Curious Publishing inbox. Toward the end of November I had finally made a connection with him through a mutual contact. Melanie at Curated Chronicles had booked Chris as the musician for the opening day of my show Immersive Unicorn. After meeting him, I realized he was the same one who had reached out to me for a feature, as well as the winner of a Curious Publishing IG giveaway. I loved his live set so much that I invited him and his girlfriend Samantha over for Hanukkah to kick off the beginning of what is now a really meaningful collaboration. Here’s the first time I sat with Chris, and got to know him as “Bertsdude” the musician. To set the scene, I arrive in the middle of a suburban tract home development where it seemed like the middle of nowhere. I rang the doorbell and he opens the front door which lead into a picturesque and huge modern family home. These are the kinds of homes I was rarely in growing up. Everything in it’s perfect place. He lead me upstairs to the space he creates in - his bedroom.

BERT, MEET REBECCA.... REBECCA,

MEET BERT

R: You got connected with me when I was probably the busiest I’ve ever been in my life.

probably since like 2018. So it was in a way pretty nerve-wracking, but I’ve been working on music constantly throughout 2021 so it just felt nice to be able to kind of showcase that in a very intimate way.

B: Probably [chuckle]

R: I think the first time I remembered one of your emails, I was already planning stuff for a work trip to New York. And I was thinking, “Okay, I’ll have to get back to this.” I had to keep a folder of all your emails and leave them unread, so that they would always be flagged. I’d be like, “I need to get back to this person.” And then I finally clicked your Spotify link, and I was like, “Okay, I really like this music, this is probably gonna work out.”

R: So how did you get linked up with Melanie at Curated Chronicles for the live set at my art show?

B: I’m glad.

R: I love soundscape type of stuff. So my thought was, “Okay, I don’t have to like the musician that I interview.” But since I liked it, it was a nice treat. It was like a win-win kind of. Yeah, and then...

Seeing your live set at my art opening, I was like, “Okay, I’m actually emotionally moved.”

[chuckle]

B: Yeah, and I mean, that event was, I was telling Sam [girlfriend] too, it was my first solo event

B: Honestly, it was just ‘cause my girlfriend and I, we’re always in [Upland], and I think I wanted to go to Penny Lane just to get one of those, like the record boxes that they have, because I’m getting her a bunch of records for Christmas and I wanted a safe place to put them, then because we’re always in Claremont, I was like, “let’s wander around” and we literally stumbled upon Curated Chronicles and just thought it was really cute. I love art galleries and little independent book stores so we went in; we’re both fans of art, we’re both fans of literature so it was perfect. As we were looking around, I was kind of eavesdropping because I overheard Melanie and a customer talking about music and I didn’t know Melanie was the shop owner. I just thought she was like a cashier or something, but when I went to go check out, I think I was buying an issue of CURIOUS because I walked in and thought “I wonder if it’s here” and sure enough there was the whole table right there. When I was paying, I asked, “Oh just out of curiosity, I think I overheard

you guys talking about music, would you ever consider doing any live performances here?” She was really cool about it, she nicely said, “Yeah, with COVID though and the restrictions, it hasn’t been able to happen.” She did say though that she wanted to begin doing stuff like that and sure enough [laughter] everything just kind of fell into place. And then she was just like, “Oh yeah, we’re gonna be having a Curious event in early December if you’re interested in doing so I can give you my contact info.” We traded information, we were kind of just keeping each other updated, December 4th passed, and it all happened nicely.

B: Yes.

R: What’s the connection? I wanna know, I have to know because I just call you Bertsdude when I’m at home. [laughter]

R: At the art opening, did you perform a recent release?

B: Pieces from all three releases of the year. It was one piece from Drone 2 , which came out in June, the rest of the acoustic set was stuff from my first album of the year, Berts, and stuff from this recent release, Tasmanian Garlic . I don’t know why I went with that name, I just thought it was funny so I went with it. One of the ambient pieces was from that as well, but it kind of transitioned into that second piece.

B: Yeah, it’s funny because when I moved to Eastvale, I didn’t really know anyone at the time just because when we moved here, we moved into an apartment simply to get an address to register me for high school, but we moved here probably two weeks prior to registration so I was new to the city, new to the environment. I was skating at the time and the first group I kind of gravitated towards was the skaters. I’ve never really been good at skating, I’ll be honest about it, I kind of suck, I know how to ride, I know how to carve, but that’s about it. There was this one trick that, I mean, I thought was cool and it’s called a bert, but it originated as a surf trick by Larry Bertlemann, I think. It’s kind of like you plant your hand on the ground, and it’s typically on a bank, and you kind of whip the board around and then you just ride back down. I always did them and I think... What was my name on Instagram before? I think it was like Larrythegoblin or something or Royceevermore or some dumb shit. [laughter]

R: So your name is Chris, but you go by Bertsdude.

B: But then I was just like, no, I do berts a lot so then I think I just changed it to Bertsdude and then everyone started knowing me as Bertsdude. I would just be out in the nearby shopping center and I would just hear “BERTSDUDE” like all loud and I’d just be like, “What’s up man!” [chuckle] But yeah, that’s the story, and even though I don’t skate anymore, it’s kind of just stuck and that’s my pseudonym, I guess.

was like his name is not Bert.

B: It’s funny too because a bunch of people call me that. B: In 2016 when I got my... No, not when I got my first guitar, but when I got the guitar that I really started playing on first, my friend and I at the time, Brody, we put it together so it’s kind of like a Frankenstein guitar and he said, “Oh no, it’s bad luck to have a headstock…” a headstock is where you’d tune the strings at up top.

R: Well, it’s hard to forget, honestly, it’s like, Bertsdude.

B: And because we got that off of eBay, it was like a $30 neck or something, real cheap. It sounds like shit. [laughter]

B: Bertsdude, yeah, that’s him. [laughter]

R: I think the first time I was hanging out with you, I literally had to look at the email to be like “his name is not Bertsdude, obviously.” So what’s his name again? I’m like, Oh yeah, okay. [laughter]

B: That’s... Even on my instagram now...

B: But it was just blank, it was maple finish, and he’s like, “Oh, it’s bad luck not to have anything on the headstock.” “I don’t know what to put.” So he was just like, “Why don’t you just put Bert?” So then once I started playing that guitar, a couple of friends would say, “Ooo look, it’s the Bert special,” or something, I’m like “Shut up dude.” [laughter]

R: Yeah. My partner asked me, “Isn’t that Bert?” I

“I would just hear ‘BERTSDUDE’ like all loud and I’d just be like, ‘What’s up man!’

R: Do you have it?

B: Yeah actually, I played it the other night.

but I was dog sitting for some neighbors across the street. I would just head over to feed the dogs and let ‘em out real quick, they didn’t really like a lot of attention. While I was in the garage feeding them one day, I saw a guitar case in the midst of all their mess in the garage and of course, me and my curious self, I was like, “I wonder what’s in there,” so I opened it up and it was just like a regular Squier Strat. And so I was just like, “Okay, this is nice.” Then I think I DM’d the owner’s son on Instagram, and I said, “Hey, just out of curiosity, is that your guitar in the garage?” or something like that, he said, “Oh yeah, I haven’t touched it in years,” and I was just like, “Well, if you haven’t played it, how much would you want for it?” He said, “You can just take it if you want.” So...

[chuckle]

B: Sorry, I have to make you search for it.

[pause]

B: And it’s funny too just because some time in 2016, I was dog-sitting for my neighbor across the street...

I immediately ran with this. I was like, “Okay, for sure, thank you so much,” but because it was a Squier, it’s their cheaper version of Fender…

B: There’s the Bert if you want to look at it.

[Bertsdude hands guitar to Rebecca]

So I just wanted to mess with it, but my friend Brody at the time, he would go to pawnshops, get really crappy guitars, and fix ‘em up big time so immediately when I got home, I was just like, “I have a project for you.” I disassembled it, and we put, I

think the new neck, new hardware, new pickups, and did rewiring, and yeah, it’s the guitar that I...

R: I love it. This is a cool case.

B: [chuckle] Yeah, it’s the guitar that I started making music with so it means a lot. I’ve sold a lot of equipment just either because I didn’t play it anymore or because I needed the money, but I’ve never thought about selling this one.

touches this little metal piece so you kinda get a little vibration. It’s not the best, but... [chuckle] It’s not ideal. But it’s what got me started, so she’s nice.

R: You can’t.

B: Yeah, it’ll stay with me.

R: The story seems to have a lot of significance.

B: That’s how I started, at least. I think I asked for a bass, I wanna say, I think the Christmas of 2015 going into 2016, but when I was a kid, I would always go through phases and everything so I think my mom maybe thought it was another phase and it wasn’t a really expensive bass, but I don’t think she wanted to spend money on an instrument if I wasn’t gonna use it at all. And so I didn’t end up getting the bass, but with what Christmas money I got, I immediately went to Guitar Center and told them, “I’ll take that one.”

B: Yeah, exactly.

B: She’s a cutie, but there’s a lot of fret buzz, it’s when you press down on, you see right here? Let me see.

[shows fret buzz while playing]

And that one I think was an Epiphone Viola Bass. At the time, I was really getting into the Beatles and Paul McCartney was my everything so I wanted to get a Hofner bass, which I actually have now, that’s this one right here, and I wanted to get a Hofner bass, but I think those were a bit more expensive than the Epiphone.

R: Oh, cool. That’s beautiful.

R: Oh, yeah.

B: Yeah. It’s not really doing it too much right now, but it’s when you hit right here and the string

B: I was just like, “No, I don’t want to spend too much at once,” so I ended up getting the off-brand version, but now I have the actual thing, so I’ve come full circle.

B: Oh God. Top five, or something?

R: So you started music in 2016; before that, what were your interests? Did you have an ambition or an inkling that you would dedicate a lot of your life to writing music and performing?

R: It’s a bad question, but... [chuckle] What was on repeat? [laughter]

B: I don’t even remember, dude. It was a lot of rap. I remember that’s when Migos was first coming up and I think that’s when they put out Hannah Montana, Tyga was cool for some reason.

B: No, actually. Growing up, music wasn’t really a big part of the household or anything. My mom would listen to country music, which I don’t like; well modern country music, old stuff is nice, but then my dad, he would just listen to the typical Mexican stuff, which I love now, so that’s cool. But there wasn’t really...

R: I was too old to like Tyga.

[laughter]

B: But then, I think, just before that, I was listening to a lot of Skrillex. He was cool. Daft Punk. I’ve always liked Daft Punk though, I still do. Yeah, it was just a weird time for music.

R: That’s definitely something that grew on me too.

R: I love it.

B: But yeah, it was just, it was like, “Okay, music’s cool,” but I never really thought much of it. Oddly enough, I used to listen to a lot of rap [chuckle] and electronic stuff, dubstep, this was all middle school.

B: I never really thought I would get into music and oddly enough, I think when maybe it was 2011, maybe 2012, that’s when I started discovering more rock and I think because I’d always liked Green Day, I remember Tre Cool, his drums, I think on ‘Basket Case’ the song, I was like, “That’s so cool.”

R: Who were some of your middle school go-to musicians?

[chuckle] So I started just air drumming, I would get pencils and just tap on random things so oddly

“Growing up, music wasn’t really a big part of the household or anything

enough, my first instrument interest was drums, actually. I started discovering that and then I slowly started getting into Van Halen and such and I don’t know where Van Halen came from, but it just popped up.

R: Was it like a friend of yours?

B: I don’t even know. Maybe...something. I think it might have been my step-dad because he would always listen to classic vinyl on SiriusXM, I think it was the Channel 26, and so I was just like, “Oh, this is cool,” so I would start listening here and there, but it was still mainly rap and electronic stuff at that time and at one point I actually wanted to be a DJ, but that didn’t pay off so. [laughter]

R: Like an electronic artist?

B: Kind of.

R: Or just like spinning?

I think that everyone has that moment, where they’re like, “This playlist is so perfect, I have to show everyone.” [laughter] I have to remix this, I have to. [laughter] But, where was I going… But then I think once I moved out to Eastvale freshman year, I was still listening to a lot of hip-hop and rap, I think Tyler the Creator has always been very inspirational and Cherry Bomb came out I think in 2015 and so I was still a freshman, it was so cool, and I was like, “Yo, this is amazing.”

R: What about it resonated with you?

B: More like spinning, it was weird. Like I can make an epic playlist in any situation [laughter]

B: I don’t even know...because I remember in Anaheim I used to listen to Tyler a lot, but at that point, it was still very much hard rap, it was a lot of his derogatory stuff. When Cherry Bomb came out, I think he started experimenting more and I think he himself, he was experiencing growth within as well. His sound started changing and there was just a lot more fluctuation in his production. I had a friend, Elijah, known as Solarbroccoli, we’ve actually collaborated for two album covers now, and he was in my health class so we went ballistic when Cherry Bomb came out, we were like, “TYLER DROPPED, TYLER DROPPED!” [chuckle] But yeah, once I started hanging out with the skater kids, they were listening to more garage rock or classic rock, like Thee Oh Sees, King Gizzard, but then the old

“This playlist is so perfect, I have to show everyone.

stuff was Cream, Zeppelin, like CCR kind of stuff so I was like, “Oh, this is actually really cool.”

From what little they showed me, I think I just started branching out and finding stuff and here I am making music so, [chuckle] it’s a very long explanation.

the longest time until I had enough money to get an actual amp, then I got the guitar, then ever since, I’ve just kind of been expanding my collection and so now I have like…

[duck text tone rings]

R: Happens really organically.

[laughter]

B: Long explanation because I think it really takes a whole life’s experience before you decide to go towards a venture. Well for both of us, that was my experience. I think there’s a lot of people that are multi-talented that can suddenly shift what they’re doing and then they come back to it. But

I mean music’s been pretty consistent ever since 2016 and I think once I started really listening to the Beatles…my best friend, Sam, I think he introduced me to the Beatles with Strawberry Fields in like 2007 or 2008 so I was really young and I was like, “This is really cool.” I didn’t get into them until much later on and then I would just always listen to Paul and I just really liked him, and I was like, “Okay, his bass is really cool too,” and “I wanna try that.” That’s what kind of put my foot into music and actually playing, then Christmas, like no I really wanted that bass. So I got it and then…we have a sound system downstairs so I was just playing out of the sub for

R: I was literally looking at that duck when that happened. [laughter]

B: Yeah, I have maybe just over 20 instruments now, whether it’ll be instruments or music equipment, this is my...

[opens music equipment drawer]

B: Extras.

SHOW AND TELL

Yeah so there’s CD material, there’s a weird little flute type thing, I think I got it from a vendor at Norco College, like those vendors that sell t-shirts, flags, rings… But I found this, it was five bucks I think. This I got at an antique store, a little mini synth of sort...

R: Oh, I’ve actually used that before, a friend of mine has one. Yeah, that’s fun.

R: Why weren’t you feeling it?

B: It’s cute. My sister got me this from Olvera Street.

R: I had one of those from Olvera Street when I was little, classic. [chuckle]

B: They’re cute. I have a couple of harmonicas, sleigh bells when you need them, tambourine.

R2: So what was your first performance?

B: My first performance was out of a garage for my friend Addae. He was just doing, I think like a pop-up shop because he made shirts, he made sweats, it was a brand. I think his brand name was Fuchsia or something, and so it was kind of like a Fuchsia pop-up shop so he was just like, “Would you wanna play or something?” And I said, “Yeah, absolutely, no problem.” And that’s when my first EP or album thing came out, it was called ‘Memories of Yesterday’, but I wasn’t a big fan of it, so once I put it on Spotify and the year was up, I was like, “No, I’m gonna just take it off,” [laughter] but I still have the CD and it’s this one actually. It’s that one.

[chuckle]

B: Well, I mean, at the time, I was just, I felt it was too repetitive because I mean, it was. It was a lot of looping, and... I don’t know, it was weird. You could tell it was very primal for my first endeavor just because the insides of the covers are still white, compared to the rest that are like half designs and everything. But that one had just come out so I thought, “Yeah, I’ll play it, why not?” It was odd because it was just me, my chair, this one maybe, and my classical acoustic that my dad got me for graduation. I was the opener for maybe two or three rap groups after so it was contradictory because it was soft and cute acoustic.

R: You know, the rap guys like that stuff. [laughter]

B: Yeah it was soft acoustic music to begin with and then like dadadadada after and so it was funny, but yeah, it was a cool experience. I think I messed up on one song just because I was really nervous.

R: Do you remember how you felt when you’re performing for the first time?

“ Nervous as hell.

R: Nervous, anything else?

B: Yeah and I think I was just excited because it was, I mean, my first performance ever. And it was in front of like a bunch of friends, mutuals so it wasn’t like I was performing to strangers, but...

It was just cool because I think he started plastering them around on stop lights around the city and I was walking home from school one day and I’d seen it on the street light across the street. It was just cool to see Bertsdude on something, you know?

R: That’s cool. It’s got history.

R: Do you think that you would have been able to perform if it wasn’t for having a close friend? Do you think that that’s why you started performing?

B: Most likely, yeah, because he was the one that reached out and in the back of my mind, I think I had always thought about performing, but I was a bit skittish about it. I just didn’t really tackle it too much so that’s how that went. He reached out and I just said, “Sure, why not?” And then, I think he was doing a promo for either his brand or for the show and asked if I could make a song for it as well. It was a minute-long song or something and it was cute. It’s slo-mo video and he does this weird editing style where there’s a lot of saturation and kind of animation to the video, but it still looks like actual, like footage. But... So we compiled that and the show was cool. I still have the little mini flyer. It’s probably like that big or something.

B: Exactly, but then we did that and then I think that was like my only performance for a good while. I joined the music program at Norco and then there, I just connected a lot with the musicians so playing felt very natural and organic. We had to do showcases as well and when I’d get there at the school or elsewhere, I was still really nervous, like my hands would be a little shaky, but it just felt nice to play for people. I think the biggest place we played was the OC Fairgrounds. There were a lot more people than I was used to [laughter] because the auditorium I think held up to 100 people, maybe if that, but then OC Fairgrounds, there was like, probably close to like 300 so I was like, “Holy shit.” [laughter]

R: Yeah, that’s funny. You’re talking about your experience and then I’m like remembering whenever I would perform in orchestras when I was younger, I played cello.

B: Yeah, Sam [Rebecca’s partner] was telling me.

R: But I used to play violin. I actually don’t own a cello anymore, but that was like the last instrument that I was actually serious on and...

R: That’s so sweet.

B: Or whatever, say bye, and never see them again.

B: Cellos are really cool.

R: I think the only reason why I was down to perform was because orchestras are huge and you pretty much disappear in the group because you’re all wearing black. [laughter]

B: Yeah. Exactly.

R: But I grew up with like major stage fright, didn’t want to be called on to read in class, it was just like, no. [chuckle]

FRIENDLY DUDE

B: No, I’ve always been outgoing...

Talkative. I’ve always been a very big people person. I was always the kid that like at the big field of VictoriaGardens when it wasn’t like gated off. I would just see random kids all grouped together and I would just go up to them, no problem and be like, “What are you guys playing?” And then just join in for tag...

R: Yeah, I was the opposite, I was afraid of everything. [laughter] I was afraid of everything, but that was like my first, wetting my feet into being comfortable with other people, I was just skittish. I had my siblings and that’s what I knew so when they weren’t around, I’d be like, “Who are these little kids?” [laughter] because I think I started [playing] like fourth grade and I did all the way up to junior year of high school.

B: That was a good while though.

R: Yeah good while, but before doing that, there’s no way that I would have liked...

B: You were just very to yourself.

R: Yeah. The fact that I did music is probably why

I’m comfortable now with public speaking and connecting to people because you’re...

B: I mean, you’re holding events now.

R: Yeah, like you’re put into an environment where

now all of a sudden you have to collaborate with 20 kids. [chuckle]

R: [Points to an album] What’s this one called?

B: Memories of Yesterday . Yeah. I don’t know why I went with that, but some stuff just kind of came out and bam.

R: It resonated with you at the time.

R: Yeah. Some stuff just comes out and you just roll with it. But...

R: Yeah. What would you say influences the songs that you write? What are your songs about? Are they all over the place? Do they kind of have a theme?

it’s some variation of interlude. So I think on Berts in the beginning of the year, track five was “Kirt’s Interlude,” just because my friend Kirsten made a vlog kind of YouTube account and so she was just like, “Oh, can I... Can you make me a song so I can play in the background?” And I said “Hell, yeah.” So it’s my first score in a way, but then I just really liked it, so then when that was coming out, I asked, “Hey, can I use it on the album?” She’s like, “Yeah, it’s your song, dude. Go ahead,” but because I made it for her, I called it “Kirt’s Interlude,” because she goes by Kirt. “Drone” only had four tracks so that didn’t have an interlude, but then for Garlic, I think that’s “July 13 Banjo Interlude,” and that’s just, its a minute of a little strumming with notes here and there, but yeah, sometimes stuff just comes out of the air and not...

B: I think just pretty random stuff. Yeah, there’s a song on here called “Friends.” There’s a song called “Brother.” “Friends” is pretty just selfexplanatory. “Brother” was about my best friend Sam. There’s a song called “Goodbyes,” that’s about my dad and I think it was just me on a 12-string just strumming just really pretty chords. I’ve had a pretty consistent thing with interludes and ever since I’ve been making albums like track number five, if it makes it to five and up,

R: Well, you’re just saying that, but to make a whole song like that, I know that it’s more than just… it’s because all you really said was “random.” [chuckle] It probably sounds like a silly question, but why would you write a whole song about your friends and what did it sound like?

B: I don’t know, just because I...

R: And were you trying to achieve a certain feeling?

B: I had a lot of support going into the project and just felt it’d be a nice ode to my friends… So I did it and there’s just random songs on there. I think it’s easier to have meaning in a song when there’s lyrics and everything, but literally all my stuff has been instrumental, except for the very last track on Garlic and that was just a poem that I wrote, but it’s more spoken word, it sounds like it’s through a distant megaphone. I’m not too comfortable with my voice on track yet, but it’s a step. [laughter] Yeah, but I think there was more meaning in the last album, for sure.

R: Let’s talk about it.

B: Let me see the track list. Okay, so “Ongoing Conversation,” track one, I sampled, well, this was on a hike with...

R: Now, we’re talking about?

B: This is the recent one, Tasmanian Garlic , and track one, it was just when my girlfriend and I were on a hike and there were just a lot of birds because there were a bunch of trees so of course there’s gonna be birds. I love bird sounds in anything and so I just recorded it on my phone, shot that into GarageBand, and then made a little song. That one’s just us talking about random stuff while

hiking, which was nice. “Voice Memo 84” I think it literally was a voice memo. I didn’t really edit it much after, probably added a tiny bit of reverb, but that’s about it. [chuckle] My voice memos are just full of random riffs, ideas; there’s maybe old demos on there, but that was just one that was really pretty so I threw it on. “Dear Sister,” is a song for my sister and she was just always bugging me, she’s like, “You don’t love me. You never made a song about me,” so here’s your song. It was a repetitive kind of fingerstyle guitar, electric, but in the background, I’m messing with a delay pedal just to create this weird glitchy sound. “It Makes Me Sick” was just a random song, but with emotional ties just because a lot has been going on in the past couple months so that’s what happened with that, but it still sounds pretty so it’s nice. It’s kind of like a blanket.

R: It’s nice. I got you. B: “July 13 Banjo” was just something to fill in

the interlude song so it was just something out of the air, but Oh Sees, when they were in their beginning stages, they made a song which I think was called “Banjo Sold for Rent” or something related to rent money. It was just literally random, they were plucking just random shit, but I liked it and wanted to do something like that. “Of Death and Love,” I made that one with my sweetheart and it was kalimbas, me on sax, and then...

her size so we started harmonizing in a way with them. The same with the kalimbas because I went out and got one as well. I got a deeper tone, she had hers, and just started messing around; it’s very avant-garde and there’s not much structure to it, or time. A lot of these pieces, I didn’t even have a metronome going or have a set tempo. I just press record and if it comes out good, it makes the tape.

R: You play sax?

B: No, but I mess around on sax. [chuckle]

R: You can mess around.

B: I can doodle around, yeah. Your Sam was just like, “Oh, as long as you can play a clean note, you can play saxophone,” so I guess I play sax. We always go to the folk…Folk Music Center?

That music Store, yeah, in Claremont, and I think she started messing around with a zen bowl, I think it’s called, where you tap it.

“Let it Out, it’s Okay” was a song that I made for my girlfriend. I think she was crying a lot that day, some stuff was going on, so it’s a little acoustic song of me just messing around again thinking not everything has to be perfect and so structured so it’s okay to kind of mess around, let things out hence “Let it Out, it’s Okay”. That’s how it came about.

“Virgin Mary Demo’’ was just me noodling with a kind of traditional classical guitar fingering style. At the time of recording, Samantha was just in bed, but she had one of the little Mexican blankets that had the Virgin Mary on it and didn’t know what to call the tune, looked at the blank, and I was like,

“Okay.” [laughter]

R: Yeah, the singing bowl?

B: Yeah so I bought her one and I think we started messing around when we went back some time after, but I think I was on a bigger one. She had

R: It’s a good story. [chuckle]

B: “Untitled Drone” was just the product of me listening to Drone 2 and wanting to fit something like that in here somehow. It came out really pretty though. “Columbidae Sun.” Columbidae is actually,

I think, the scientific term for a pigeon. So, but the way it sounds, it’s very much...

R: So, your approach to music sounds organic.

R: Gonna need that written down, I’m not going to be able to transcribe that one. [laughter]

B: No, it’s like Columbus and then...Lumbidae. Yeah.

But the song is very Blackbird inspired so I wanted to tie in a bird somehow and then sun just sounded pretty with it. Track 11 was just the spoken word poem. I don’t know, I just wanted to write something pretty and so I wrote down some pretty stuff and finally put my voice on tape in a formal way. Yeah. [chuckle]

B: Very much so, yeah. It’s kind of... What is... I know it’s hard to describe the artistic process, especially since it’s, when it’s happening. Well, for me, when it’s happening, it’s kind of like a daze. Kind of when you’re really in it, you’re kind of so in it that you don’t really know how I got there, but that it got there.

R: So what’s your process like? Do you start with just kind of messing around and then it kind of develops or just describe... Pick... What’s one of the songs that you really remember creating on this

last album, like maybe your favorite or maybe just the most fun?

B: On the last one?

I would say either “Of Death and Love” or maybe “Columbidae”, just because I had been working on “Columbidae” for the longest time and it was just an idea for maybe months. With a lot of my stuff, I’ll get the idea and I’ll just record it either within that week, but I hadn’t done anything with it so I finally put it on tape and it was just really pretty sounding so I was happy to finally get it recorded. There’s this dreamy reverb on there that I try to emulate with the pedal, but it’s close somehow, but on the song, there’s kind of more of like a distant swelling to it, but it doesn’t create a climax to where it just crashes or anything. As for the process, I listen to so much music, it’s annoying. I probably have close to 6,000 song saved on my Spotify and with a lot of my stuff, now I just listen for inspirations and if I like a certain style of music, if I like a specific artist, I’ll listen to either that artist or stuff similar to that style of music, and I’m just like, “Okay, I wanna try this.”

is 40 minutes, but there’s only two songs so each are about 20 minutes. With my project, I think it was about 44 minutes, but there was only four songs. My friend Gus and I, we did a 30-minute little jam, I guess, or like a session so then we just split that up and then the other two songs just came about. I think with Garlic, I’ve just always loved soft acoustic songs. I don’t know. I was just like, “Okay, let me try to make something like that now.” And it happened.

[chuckle]

“ dreamy and spaciness

R: Do you have a certain sound you’re trying to achieve when you put it together, because I love...

From my perspective, there’s like consistence, like dreaminess.

[chuckle]

So that’s how Drone came about because I listened to “The 12” Synth” by Osees. The project

B: In a way, yeah. Yeah, just because I think, I’ve never had a band or anything. The closest thing to a band is probably when I was at Norco and I would be playing with other people, but my stuff has always just been me and the occasional feature here and there. For the most part, it’s just been me so I think with the dreamy and spaciness of the songs, I just want to compensate for the lack of people included so that way if and when I get to perform such songs, it doesn’t feel so singular, so it just feels like it’s very wide if that makes sense.

R: So the attempt is to make a well-rounded... Sound, kind of...Blooming.

R: Trust me, I know all about Frank Zappa, because of my partner, Sam. [laughter]

B: Yeah, exactly and there’s always a lot of reverb involved and some delay here and there, but... Yeah.

Mac DeMarco, John Dwyer, Jim Croce, Frank Zappa

R: Do you have major influencers to your sound?

B: Yeah, definitely. Early on, it was very much Mac DeMarco, he was my biggest thing for the longest time. Now, just a lot of John Dwyer, he’s the leader of Osees, but then he does venture into freak jazz and a bunch of improv stuff and that’s actually what the next project is gonna be revolved around, just like improv or a very kind of free-flowing, weird stuff. I don’t know how to explain it, but yeah. So John Dwyer, there’s a lot of old kind of... What’s that word? Like acoustic artists I know, I love Jim Croce, have you heard of him? He’s amazing. But yeah, Jim Croce is amazing. I love the Grateful Dead a lot, and for the weird stuff, I would say maybe Frank Zappa as well, like he’s...

B: Yeah, he did mention that his favorite album was I think Uncle Meat , and that was... You know ‘69 for the Mothers because I know it was a very weird time, not in general... Well I mean, it was a weird time in general, but he’s always been very avant-garde experimental and even his influences, like Edgard Varèse he was... It was almost scary sounding. I remember introducing Samantha to him as well and there’s a lot that she doesn’t like just because of how weird it is and not structured it sounds, but it’s okay.

Well, kind of like music for musicians, like there’s music for people that want to feel a certain way when they’re listening, but unless you’re a true nerd, you wanna hear all the sounds like you’re not…When you can understand poly rhythmics in the background, the drums are playing one time and then the guitar per se is playing in another time.

R: Freestyle or...

B: Exactly yeah, that’s when you actually get to appreciate it and I think that’s why I gravitate towards it so much and just because it’s so weird

R: Yeah, it’s grown on me, for sure.

I make CDs and I think for Drone, like the J-card format, it just looked really cool as a poster so I made a small one too.

B: I think that’s one reason I love jazz so much too, just because... Yeah, there’s a structure to songs, but then when they start improvising, it’s just... Everything’s off the top of their head. I love jazz very greatly, it’s probably my second favorite genre, behind just general rock. Like it’s my favorite generally yeah. Yeah, but I... I think just artists in general that aren’t scared to try weird things or new things or just stuff that people might not like. I think that’s really cool too, just because they’re making it for their own purpose and it’s kind of what I do in a way. I’ll make my projects and I’m not some big known artist, of course, so whenever I make an album, I’ll typically follow with a physical release like a CD or like for Drone, we did cassettes so I go into it just like I’ll make the CDs and if people wanna buy it, cool, they can have it as well, but if not, my sole purpose in making CDs and music is just to get what was once in my head out to the world, and that’s...a thing.

R: That looks great.

B: There’s literally only two that we’ve done because it’s just that one for me and one for Gus.

R: It could be a lot of fun designing J-cards. We have done three cassette releases. Yeah, we did Jimmy Crates, he does local rap, but kind of ambient stuff, it’s really interesting, Wundr., and then Schles, which is experimental electronic and he’s in the Bay Area, it’s one of Sam’s old frat buddies. Sam and I are actually on one the tracks like… kind of how, exactly how you described, you and Sam just kind of playing random instruments, there’s no real structure to it.

B: I think he told me about the violin story.

I love collecting vinyls, I love collecting cassettes, and I think just having something physical that was once in your head is really nice. That’s why

R: Yes, he did violin and some vocals and I did... I think I was on his bigger keyboard. Yeah, I don’t even know the proper terms for this so I’m like, “Go play your piano.” He’s like, “It’s not a piano. I don’t have a piano.” Because pianos are very... either an upright piano or a grand...

B: He’s like “You can do fake piano sounds.”

[laughter]

R: But I was doing like bells or something, like the tone was like a bell or something, like...

R: Yeah, I think he is on a Korg, playing a loop that was kinda... It kinda sounded like how you would think a UFO would sound like. Like...

[vocalization]

B: That’s one thing that I love about that synth, actually, is ‘cause there’s a setting called “message from”, and it’s literally like your stereotypical like... Like it’s just funny because it literally sounds what you would expect a UFO to sound like. This one’s really cool too because as it’s tuning, you can play a little game. [laughter]

R: That is so dope. How much was this?

B: Yeah, like a synth probably.

R: But the tone was like a bell, it’s like a synth thing. His friend, Noah Schlesinger, that’s where Schles comes from, he had different synths, basically, and it was basically playing these like...

B: I don’t know, actually. Sam bought this for me, probably like a couple of months into dating so I was like, “You’re really cool, you bought me a whole synth.” [laughter]

R: I bought Sam this keyboard after two months of dating and he’s like, “You bought me this giant ass freaking keyboard.” [chuckle]

B: Hell yeah, that’s the shit dude.

B: For that stuff, you had to have a good arsenal of synths and...

R: Yeah and now I bought him almost all his pedals.

and then Garlic is soft acoustic stuff. The next album is gonna be improvised, experimental stuff.

[plays alien sounds]

R: Oh my God. [laughter] [music]

B: It’s just like...

R: It’s like aliens are landing. That is so cool.

R: Yeah, for me it was like ambient, shoegaze.

B: Yeah. [laughter] I’m like shoegaze, I don’t know, it’s noise, it’s good noise. [chuckle] Like I said, when I take influence, if my ear likes something and I feel up to the challenge of making something that sounds like that, then I will. [chuckle]

B: And I mean, that’s the synth that I used for a majority of Drone and then that’s the one that I used on the drone song off of Garlic so it comes in handy for very spacey sounding stuff.

R: Would you say that you have kind of like a mission statement or a theme with your music.

R: Yeah. One more observation for me, I think that’s something that’s really interesting is that artists that don’t want to put themselves in a box, usually have a lot more room for opening themselves up to experiences, first of all, and experimentation which is where growth comes from. It’s kind of like constantly being a work in progress is where you wanna be, in my opinion.

B: If there’s a message, I’d probably just say, “If you wanna do it, do it.” I mean, that’s what I do and the songs they don’t have much meaning, sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. My sound fluctuates a lot there. I’ll get people asking me, “Oh, what genre do you play? Or what’s your sound?” And I’m like, “I don’t know,” because it’s all over the place. Berts was more indie, alternative kind of, Drone was heavily ambient synth, improvised stuff,

B: And it definitely gives you a lot more space and opportunity to find what you actually enjoy. Also like forgiveness of yourself if you can’t achieve the sound... And I mean, depending on the artists too, if they don’t like the way something came out, it just crushes them, but I’m like, “Okay, and I tried it. It’s out in the world. It’s cool.” But yeah, I just try to do

whatever my ear likes, whatever my fingers are capable of doing, and so that’s where a good majority of this stuff from the last year onward is coming from.

R: Cool. So a wrap-up question because I’m gonna be asking everyone this.

What does empathy mean to you?

B: It could mean a good couple of things just. If you empathize with someone, no matter what your circumstances are, you should always try and understand or feel for whatever someone else is going through. If someone’s mean to you or something, like yeah they’re mean to you, but what’s their home life like? What are their circumstances like now or in the past that have shaped that person into acting the way they are, the way that their personality is, or anything? But then empathy in general is just a lot of feeling. I mean, we all feel whether it’s strong or good or bad. We all feel as humans. I mean, if you don’t feel, that’s pretty bad.

It’s cool to feel sad every now and then because I think it’s the low points that really give you a sense of your good times and your highs in hindsight. It’s really nice, but then just... I think feelings in general, they’re capable of bringing a lot of people together, whether they realize it or not. You said, when I was performing, it hit you in an emotional way and I was like, “Oh, that’s cool. I’m glad it did.” So, and I mean, probably going into the project, I wasn’t thinking about, “Oh, this is gonna make Rebecca feel this way on December 4, 2021,” but that’s what happened. And I mean, I think that’s one thing that’s beautiful about music and art in general, just because it’s capable of bringing a lot of people together. With that, they can have new connections, new friends, whether they be maybe a couple of months or like a couple of dates to lifelong bonds and it’s a beautiful thing.

“It’s cool to feel sad every now and then [laughter]

Nur Hussein, Girl with the Olive Earring, digital, 2020

Nur Hussein

Nur Hussein, Palestinian Gothic , digital, 2021

I am a Palestinian creative. I am a creative writer, painter, and digital artist. My art supports Palestinian culture via self-expression and fosters an unapologetic reflection on Palestinian identity. Finding purpose in the pieces I make is vital in order to avoid any further marginalization of Palestinians in the modern world through the media, artworks, academia, and so on. Creating is a way of resistance and survival in the Palestinian body.

Nur Hussein, Over the Olive Trees, digital, 2021

Nur Hussein, In My Throbe, digital, 2021

Resilience Is In My Room

Art and Essay by, Mizuki Smith

Well deserved trophies sit on top of a bookshelf collecting dust. A trophy is awarded to me after getting a soccer ball in my face and falling into the mud. In that same bookshelf, an algebra and French textbook mingle together telling stories of the middle school and freshman years in which I took them. Those are the two classes I almost failed, but couldn’t afford to for fear of not graduating and going to a fouryear college. Now I can’t seem to get an email back from my college professors. Resilience is my best friend and has always been. The mess on my desk of unfinished art projects still has the intention of being completed, just when I’m ready to begin them. A depression that grew too big within in me stayed for too long that my motivation diminished. I had a best friend named creativity who decided to up and leave me. I brought it up to my therapist who then referred me to my psychiatrist who then prescribed me Zoloft. These new pills are my triumphant attempt to see another day through, but I’ve ended up feeling so dim. I sit on the phone laying in bed wasting away as I see my friends, colleagues, and acquaintances achieve more than I ever could. I’m only twentyfour, why am I in such a rush? My projects will always be there for me and the thought of finishing them is much more rewarding right now. But then I have to think, what happens afterward?

There’s only so much I can let anxiety control. When I walk into my room after work, after hanging out with a friend, I send in a sigh. I have the choice to begin a project or lay down and waste away the hours wishing I could start a project. Anxiety has stunted me thinking that if I don’t do anything now, I will never be able to do it in the future, but the rush is a projection. I look at my trophies, old textbooks, and potential laying around (in a mess) my room and I see it all there before me. Resilience is my best friend and it’s in my room.

Radical Unapologetic Expression

An Interview with KIRSTEN JONES

by, CHRIS

RUIZ

Artist Portrait by, Carolina Magaña

Artwork by Kirsten Jones

Kirsten is an avid “junk journaler”, an artist, and an advocate for ethical consumption. Through collaborative efforts, she has reduced her carbon footprint by buying as little fast fashion as possible. Recognizing her priviledge, she reflects on how we can use empathy towards uplifting eachother through fashion.

STUBBORN, RELENTLESS

C: How are you this morning?

C:I’m doing well. I’m very excited for this to be my first interview.

K: Oh I’m your first one?!

C: Indeed.

K: I’m good, I’m good. I’m feeling energized this morning.

K: Okurrrrr

C: Energized? Why’s that?

C: Okay so how would you describe yourself?

K: I think that lately I’ve just been on a health kick so I’m trying to kick out the food that’s been really holding me down.

K: Hmmmm

C: You can make it a couple words, a whole paragraph…

C: Is that for the new year or…

K: Yeah, I feel that in the last year I just haven’t been eating good and I’m trying to not eat as much meat, but I’m failing. I heard that a lot of meat on this health spectrum is similar to like cigarettes.

C: That’s pretty bad.

K: Yeah, it’s on the same level like maybe I don’t really need it. How are you?

K: I would say stubborn; stubborn because when I think I know or want something, I won’t stop. So in some cases relentless, but not in a negative connotation. I think stubborn, like strong-willed, also kind of go-getter, but I’m trying to work on that a little more. That’s what I want to be so I’m trying to tell myself that’s who I am deep down to really unveil that side of me. If you want it, just grab it because

I’m just really at this point in my life where if you want something, you’re

the only one that’s stopping yourself.

C: That’s true and you can also be your main motivator too.

K: Exactly, it’s you against you.

C: So a bit of a personal question, but I’ve known you since 2018, even briefly worked with you between now and then and something that hasn’t changed is you carrying around a Moleskin or journal of sorts, what does journaling do for you?

it’ll never feel that exact, same way. Writing it down just like that and just really vomiting your conscience onto paper, when you look back at that with whatever growth or whatever knowledge that you gained from that point when you wrote it and forward, whatever you wrote stands still. Maybe it’ll be interpreted in a different way, but at the end of the day, whatever you wrote down is how you felt in that moment so when you recall that moment, it’s the most true because memories are going to fade, they’re going to change…

C: And the next day, you’re like “damn, what was I thinking?” or “what was I going to write?”

K: I think really, it’s like a really good way to chronicle your life. I think that how you feel, I always proclaim this: that how you feel in a certain moment isn’t how it’s going to feel tomorrow. When you’re excited about something or when you’re upset about something, when something really touches you, in that moment,

K: Exactly. Take people for example, if I remembered somebody in a certain way and I wrote it down when I knew that person and later on when memories fade or we had a falling out, my perception will change and how I go about telling others about them. Writing those things down in the moment is really the most accurate

“... whatever you wrote down is how you felt in that moment...

depiction of anything.

C: Because you’ve been carrying them with you for so long, about how many do you think you have now?

diary” kind of stuff.

K: Oh my gosh, I used to have a picture. Completed ones, maybe like four, fully completed, cover to back, ones that I just have around my room, I just went through my room, I have six that are standing, like they’re still in use right now, and then I have 10 that are up there…

C: Like archived?

K: Archived yeah! Some that are halfway through, some of them fully done, yeah. I’ll always hold onto them, I don’t think I’ll ever let them go. I’m a hoarder.

[laughter]

C: When did you start journaling?

K: Yeah, I think sixth grade. It was before middle school for sure. Actually, I know that I was about 11 for sure. I was just doing more junk journaling which like, if you don’t know what it is, collaging, just another form of journaling. It’s more collaging, more artistic, more creative, but still journaling. Anything you find, I used to save like receipts from events, anything, it’s kind of when you just…

C: Like a scrapbook?

K: Scrapbook, exactly yeah! Some people do it where they literally collage on a page, some people throw in random things, tape it in, and write whatever memory about it, yeah.

K: Maybe like sixth grade?

C: I know you journal, but you also do these fantastic watercolor doodles, when did you first get into that art?

C: It could be starting from like “dear

K: I’ve always been into art since I was really little and my parents put

me in art classes that didn’t last too long because I moved around a lot so I’ve always been more artistically inclined to like want to create, but with watercolor, I felt like it was just the easiest medium. I use that or just doodle anything really.

C: Is there something about watercolor in particular that kind of caught your attention more?

style, how would you describe your fashion?

FASHION IS EMPOWERING

K: Umm, I want to say…

C: I know it’s a broad question. *laughter*

K: I think the fact that it’s more forgiving than a paint. With acrylic, how it dries is how it’s going to look, but with gouache, which is what I’ve been using more, it’s like as opaque as acrylic, but if you ever want to go back and change it, you just add water and it reactivates it again. It’s like watercolor, but more opaque.

C: You can have a little more fun with it.

K: Yeah and that’s really what I’ve been using the most.

K: It’s a broad question, but I don’t want it to sound like…

C: Because I know you reach everywhere and…

“... sometimes when I’m feeling a little more “I can’t do this, I can’t wear this again”, then I’ll wear it even more for some reason.

C: And besides journaling and art, you have a very distinctly indistinct

K: Yeah, it’s kind of just like what everyone’s going through: whatever is like your vibe in that moment. It sounds very whatever, but I think

sometimes when I’m feeling a little more “I can’t do this, I can’t wear this again”, then I’ll wear it even more for some reason. If I’m feeling more comfortable, it just reflects my mood and that’s one thing I’ve always wanted to perpetuate through fashion is that regardless of everything else going on, it’s really your own radical expression. You should be true to you.

PROTECTING SMALL BUSINESSES WHEN IT MATTERS MOST

C: On the topic of fashion, what significance does Sunshine Daydreams (clothing store in San Diego, CA) have to you?

outside is usually a lot more creatively encouraging. Some people probably thrive in like Seattle, but typically speaking, I probably thrive most in the sun, in a place that I love like my stomping ground in San Diego, that brings me back. It’s funny that you say that too because I was driving, listening to this song, and was like, I could picture myself just laying in San Diego right now, just on the beach, doodling, drawing, just being in my element. That is where I really am the most me, the most unstoppable, it’s dangerous. For anyone really, when you feel the most powerful and unstoppable, it’s just you versus you, no one else.

K: Everything, oh my gosh, like…who told you that? I don’t know I feel like when you find a little niche place or fashion sense…as you know, I go to Ocean Beach all the time, during summer, I feel like everyone thrives. It’s when you’re the most creative, the most in the sun, or even if you don’t like the sun, just the brightness

C: And you picture this in the wardrobe that you got from Sunshine, yes?

radically myself.

K: Yeah. That kind of vibe of like “I’m me, I’m radically myself”, no doubt, nothing, it usually comes in through not being creatively stimulated, like when I’m in my room all the time where

“I’m

there’s no sun, I’m not in my element.

When I think about that place, that is what I want to be all the time, even when I’m not there physically.

C: Was that store one of the first that you fell in love with?

K: Yeah, I think since they’re a small business…

too.

C: Is it like a mom and pop shop?

K: Oh definitely. They’ve been there through…like I know their rent is getting raised, but that’s why we support them, especially now because that’s when they need it the most. You don’t ever want to lose your shop just because they’re building more stores or building around like Target, that sucks.

K: Yeah, usually with that city, Ocean Beach, San Diego, it’s a lot of locals. I’ve seen it get a little gentrified over the years which is sad but true. They added a Target and I don’t even want to get into what happens when you add a Target anywhere, but it’s just one of those things where when you find a place…just think about it this way, like I eventually want to own my own clothing store, my own “buy, sell, trade” so when I see one that’s thriving, they’re doing their thing, it makes me want to support that over something else.

C: I feel like it means more to them

C: Do you know how long it’s been there?

K: I don’t really know, but it’s been there a long time. All the shops have been there for quite some time, I want to say at least like 10 years? It could be significantly more, but just a guess.

C: Your 11-year-old self would go crazy stepping in there for the first time.

K: Absolutely, I’d be freaking out. I think because that’s when I was going through an extreme hippie phase because all their stuff is imported from

the Middle East and other countries so they pay them a livable wage, which is really important to me, and they sell it for a price that’s not going to be like two dollars, you pay a good price for that, but it’s quality and you’re helping them out too.

C: It’s like a chain of helping people.

know that during quarantine, a lot of people couldn’t go to thrift stores, they live in small towns that don’t have those types of stores available, this is kind of a way to curate a shop that I can make for people that want to go into a place and find something they like at that moment.

K: Exactly. ROTATION

SET

C: Extending on fashion, tell me everything and anything you can about Rotation Set.

C: And this is online exclusive right now?

K: Oh my gosh. I think it’s longoverdue, definitely long-overdue. I’ve wanted to do something like this for a minute. Especially with my Instagram, it’s kind of like a forum. I wanted a place where I could talk about fashion, talk about things that I find make the most sense to me and other people about expressing themselves, I also like it as a form of a side income as well, buying and selling clothes. I

K: Right now, yes. I’m doing it through Depop, which I really want to stray away from just because Depop takes a lot of money out of it and I feel like that’s sad just because when I price something, I have to keep that in mind. I pay for the shipping, I have to pay Depop their share of the transaction, the fees, and it’s like 10%, which sounds like a little, but it’s a lot. I want to do more on Instagram so I’ll put the price on there. If you want to barter, trade, anything, I’m always open to negotiation. I just feel like that’s how clothes should be and not have such a capitalistic connotation to it. You share clothes with friends…

C: Just more easy access to it…

K: Yeah, just like sharing the same closet, we all need new clothes so it’s like rotating the clothes.

C: Ohhhh okay and when did you first get the idea to do this?

I started it from being an online store, just a place to hang out and talk.

K: I had the idea a long time ago, but originally it was Kirt’s Closet which is now going to be fossilized as that. It was Kirt’s closet, but I knew it was just going to be a quick name, a place holder. I was doing that, really enjoyed it, and was like “ I could actually do something with this.” Inevitably, I want to have my own shop in Ocean Beach, in San Diego, anywhere around there so I better start now, create a following, create a group of people that support what I’m doing, that way when I have to go out there, I will have already done marketing for it. It’s not like, “Oh, what’s this place that I’ve never heard of?” Even though I’m sure some people won’t hear about it, some people will go through knowing that

C: I remember you were always very into fashion, which was cool, but when you started posting your fashion and gaining comments and followers, the more professional page blew up immensely. It reflected from your TikTok too which you kind of have a lot of followers on.

K: And you know what, I think I want to do it just because what stops a lot of people is just disbelief. They think like “I can’t, I can’t wear that, I can’t style that, I have so many clothes that I bought years ago that I hold onto” like you could do something with this.

You could flip it, you could sell it, you could do anything with something you

*laughter*

“You could flip it, you could sell it, you could do anything with something you have and the disbelief in your head is just from you.

have and the disbelief in your head is just from you.

C: I think what’s very beautiful and organic with what you do is that you take random shit and put it together, and granted you have a very specific body type so what you wear wouldn’t go well on everyone to the general public, but the way that you’re going about it to be like you can put this with this, you can pair this with that, you make it known that you can have endless possibilities with one outfit.

and you want to style it or just put it together with something else and be unapologetic about it then that’s you. That’s fucking hardcore, just being big about it, that’s so cool. I’ve seen people do that, just having different ways of expressing themselves through art, through fashion, when you’re radically expressing yourself unapologetically, there’s nothing more powerful than that. That to me is everything.

K: My inevitable goal with that is that anyone could do it.You know how like Ratatoullie’s “anyone can cook”, it’s like that…

*laughter*

…anyone can do fashion. I think sometimes an easy cop out would be just finding something online that you want to take exactly word for word, I don’t see it as plagiarism, but if you take something off of a site, maybe you found it cute, but that’s not necessarily an expression of you all the time. If you find a piece that you really like

C: Like if own something, especially with fashion but realistically anything, people are going to be like “oh shit, they’re serious about it” whether it be goofy, misunderstood…

K: Exactly. There’s things that people that wear like “ I would never wear that”, but does it look fucking awesome on you? Yeah. They’re rocking it and look super confident in it and that’s what matters. There’s pieces that I’ve

“ There’s pieces that I’ve had for years that I will never sell

had for years that I will never sell, like these jeans for example, these are going to my kids, like hold onto them, take really good care of them. Find really good quality clothes, hold onto them, and when you’re ready, trade them, give them to people. There’s no major point in buying something freshly new. I’ll buy something and I don’t even know who wore this, what their life was, but they got their kick out of it and when I’m done, not loving it the way someone else could, someone will love it a lot more than me. I’m loving what I have right now and I’m sure they were thinking that someone would like it too. Even if it’s for like a year, the goal obviously isn’t to see how fast you can switch things out, but if you wore it for a year and it’s really not you anymore, just give it away, sell it, but that’s the thing; it has to be at least good quality or else it’s just going to go to shit to most. If there’s a hole in it, mend it, don’t get rid of something good just because it’s ripped, fix it. I feel like our generation is going to be big on that too, fix it, recycle it, buy used. I don’t want to

have the perfect situation, I want to experience life as it is. I grew up in a very religious household and the thing was always “live like Jesus” and when I got older, it was very like “you guys twist that a little bit”. He was literally walking barefoot just meeting people, just making memories and we’re over here getting back to work as soon as we can to pay for things so we can get this and that. Why is everything about getting? Why can’t we just survive, thrive, and not be so greedy about it?

C: It’s also really cool too just because it’s better than just being an online store where you post something flat on a bed or have it hanging, you actually in a way model and have fun with what you post, you walk around your room, you dance with Michael your dog, a little. It’s just nice because it adds more personality to what you do which I feel draws a larger audience as well.

K: When I was starting to think about what I wanted to do with my life, for

a while I wanted to get into fashion and a big part of me was saying to not do it because it’s superficial. I had to stop myself to think of how it makes you feel when you find a piece that expresses you and when you’re your most true self. That can pull someone out of a bad day. For me, if I’m really not feeling it, if I’m hopeless, I get this random surge of energy to put on an outfit that makes me feel like “daaaang, I want to go out and do something”. It’ll make me want to go to my favorite thfits or buy, sell, trade because I know if I walk out with a piece, I’ll want to hold onto it, feel good in it, make memories on it. You remember those pieces the most. Whenever I give a piece away, I always try to write down a memory that I had in it and tell them to make a million beautiful memories in it too. I want to see how you rock what you got.

never would’ve guessed to style it that way” and that’s rocking for you.

THE CHARACTER IN THE FAMILIAR

C: I mean even I have pieces that I’ve had since like 2018 probably and it’s 2022 and I’m still loving them because they’re MY shirts. I wear my stuff down until I can’t whether it be because the collar splits or there’s a big ass stain on it, that’s just me. My pants, I feel like as long as they don’t smell like piss or anything, they’re cool. I rewear pants no problem, just change out the shirts, and bam, you’re good.

C: Kind of like you take this and have your own fun in it too.

K: It’s so cool to see like “oh my god, I

K: Adrian has this one shirt that he bought. I think he bought it at the flea market the day we got engaged. It’s like a pink tie dye shirt; he washed it, but there was a pen in the wash so it has a giant black ink stain, but there’s a big black emblem on the graphic so it almost looks purposeful, kind of like matching. I just told him, “don’t even toss it, it looks really cool.”

C: I feel like that adds to the character in the end…

K: It does!

C: …just because it’s such a special shirt and now it holds a greater value because of what happened in it and the day it was bought.

vibe. I have a couple button ups that are like Spring, Winter, Fall, you could wear them whenever. We live in California so you could wear them pretty much whenever, all year round. Those I feel like are super casual and never go out of style. I love things that are universal; if I could wear it with 10,000 different outfits, that’s the one.

K: And you can style it too with some black sleek pants, maybe relaxed fit or whatever, and then boom it looks intentional.

C: With certain pieces, do you have any favorites?

C: It’s funny because I remember when we worked at Tea Plus for the 6 or so months I was there, you always wore this one super oversized Dallas Cowboys t-shirt, the light blue one, that’s all I remember you wearing. It was you, that shirt, your tote, laptop, and a Moleskin or two.

K: Yes, yes I do. I have…probably my jeans are my favorite because those you can wear every day, no problem, no questions asked. I think for me, I have this pair of jeans that are bell bottom, kinda low rise, but they look… and I found them at Goodwill for like 5 bucks, they look like they have dirt on the bottom, almost acid-washed on top, dirt looking like where it would go, by the pockets, it’s very much a

K: No seriously, I still have all those clothes, they’re still in my closet. I gave some of them away or passed them on, but for the most part, that’s the thing, they bring back so many memories of like our first jobs.

C: Or the dirty white Nikes too.

K: Yes, for sure, oh my gosh! It’s sad

though because I had those Air Forces then my dog chewed them up when he was a puppy, but I was able to keep the little metal thing at the end of the laces. I’m sentimental so of course I had to keep something, I have pictures in them too.

C: Sentiment is big with me too so you’re good. And I know you mentioned wanting to expand more creatively this year, how do you intend on doing so?

K: I think pushing myself, I just talked to Adrian about this too, about creating deadlines. I feel like I have a very on and off relationship with deadlines because it can be kind of daunting and I feel like for some people, it can get very obsessive and really in their head about it saying stuff like “I didn’t make the deadline, I’m a failure”, but for me, if I don’t have a deadline, it’s never going to happen. I know by Summer, I want to be doing farmers markets with clothes and pop ups. I want to be posting more on Rotation Set, I just want to be more active

and involved because this is the time to do that. I have the most energy now, I can run around now, and after this, I’m going to be getting more inventory. I told Adrian, “let’s keep the day going”. We were quarantining together and when I told him that this is our year. Everyone is so focused on COVID, waiting until 2023, but this is [a] mind, body, + spirit moment, this is your time to work on you. It doesn’t matter because you don’t need to be out to do that, you need to just focus on yourself. It’s so easy to get lost in whatever everybody else is doing; I spent so much time, Chris, so much time thinking I’m not there yet, I’m not doing this or that, but who cares? Who really cares?

C: It’s important to take baby steps.

K: Yeah baby steps, there’s no time limit. C: You’re going to end up there somehow too, so just take it easy while you can.

K: Exactly. You just have to trust that everything is going to be okay and that you’re exactly where you need to be. It doesn’t make any sense to compare where you are to anyone else, it makes no sense. I have to remind myself about that constantly because I get in my head about it, [Adrian] gets in his head about it, everyone does; it’s normal… but it’s not.

hundred dollars in my bag somehow.

I really didn’t need to worry about anything. Of course I want to be financially responsible, but I feel like some people get very scared when they have a little less, like no, you can still do something with what you have. Pen and paper can go a long way.

C: Knowing you, I’m sure you have an abundance.

C: I mean everyone has their own skill sets and abilities, but then also the amount of drive can differ. If they don’t want to do something on this day just because they’re not feeling it or they can’t because they don’t have the proper supplies to do so, then that’s okay too. As long as they get what they need to, what they want, whenever that is, then that’s all that matters in the end, reaching that end goal.

*laughter*

K: If anyone needs it, I got it.

C: To wrap up, what impact has empathy had in your life and how does it feed into what you do?

K: Money’s a good example too because there’ve been so many instances where I’ve been broke, so broke where I can’t even pay for gas or anything and I’ll randomly find a

K: Oh my gosh. I feel like when you told me the theme, I thought it matched everything because well empathy to me, the way I could describe it, is just being mindful of everyone else. It’s really hard to not be selfish in a world that raises you to be selfish. I don’t know how other countries are as far as the way that

they’re taught or raised, but we’re raised in a capitalistic society. I’m not going to diss on any society, but that’s how we were raised. I mean there’s no doubt and we can’t argue that it does in some ways impact how selfish we are. We’re all selfish in one way or another, whether it be needing more money or what, it’s because we were raised in the mindset of “I work for my money, I have to get this, this, and that”, that’s a culture that we’ve cultivated. We’ve brought that into our homes and made it seem like that’s the end all, be all when it’s not. My friends laugh at me all the time, but I always say that we’re just here to learn. We’re in Earth school. So I feel like being mindful of each other while we’re doing that process of learning who we are, who we’re going to be, and how we turn out, is the biggest thing ever. You know like being empathetic of our friends, loved ones. That should be our drive with anything. If you’re trying to combat fast fashion, compulsive buying, there’s people on the other side of that, that are getting the short end of

the stick. They struggle to make ends meet while we’re over here partying it up. At the end of the day, you can’t fully understand what someone’s going through unless you’re in their shoes, but you can try to show that you care through your actions.

You can dig more into Kirsten’s life and projects down below

Instagram: @rotation.set, @misskirstenjones

Depop: rotationset

Creating a Feeling

An Interview with BOB I

by, CHRIS RUIZ

All pictures provided by the artist.

Chris and Bob I reconnect in this fly-on-the-wall discussion recollecting on the projects they once cringed about, and that time Bob I got into Thrasher. Bob’s aim when creating music is to replicate emotions once felt through poignant moments in his life.

B: Just got Magic School Bus playing in the back

*laughter*

C: Alright so how are you this morning?

of try and mix those together in a weird way.

B: I’m doing good, doing good. We got some Yerbas in, some sandwiches in.

C: So to begin, how would you describe yourself?

B: I would say I’m a mutt of a million different subgenres and different areas of music and I’m kind of just in the center just taking it all in, soaking it all in, and trying to make something new out of it.

C: Oh okay so, very digital-based kind of music? B: Yeah yeah, it comes together in a weird way and from what I make, you’d probably never expect that it would have those influences from the music coming out, but I think that’s cool because it ends up being something that’s just hopefully original I’d say. I have a lot more guitar than those sounds.

C: What are your favorite genres, either to listen to or to make?

B: These days it’s been changing a lot. I’ve been getting a lot of inspiration from like the OG Soundcloud rappers but then also weird, glitchy pop, like hyper pop, Aphex Twin realm. I kind

C: And I mean seeing your equipment, I wouldn’t even think you’d have those influences either, but stuff comes from random places sometimes and if you want to rock with it, you can and it seems like you’re having fun making what you’re making.

B: I think it comes down to the feeling those sounds give me and I try to recreate the feeling rather than the sound even. I try and be like, “oh what could I make to give me that same

feeling?” It’s about recreating the feeling more than the sound in the end.

before I started skating.

C: So you try to recreate the feeling of when you first heard that piece of inspiration?

C: When did you start playing guitar?

B: Yeah, just the overall feeling that it gives me and bring those two genres together to make something new.

C: We used to skate all the time a couple years back and it was our whole life at the moment, but what changed to get you so into music?

B: It’s crazy because I was always into music throughout skating and it was always hand in hand with skating. I would always pull inspiration from music into my skating. There were times where music would inspire me more than actually skating, watching skate videos and stuff, I’d be more into musicians or artists than the skaters. I just always thought they were more creative I feel like. I was always into music and was actually playing guitar

B: I was about 7 or 8 when I had my first guitar and amplifier and stuff so that kind of lasted all through skating and then slowly I think it took me getting injured from skating, like I broke my collar bone, and was just kind of at home getting more into the equipment that the artists I liked were using, getting into watching interviews with musicians, getting more into the music culture, and that made me want to create music myself.

C: It makes sense too because I feel like with Thrasher videos or any skate videos in general, they always have such good soundtracks or songs to go with them so it makes you ask, “what’s this?” or “what’s that?” Even a couple years back when you guys did Pooligans (skate film by Tyler Reiff), that soundtrack was amazing. You guys had Zig Zags on there, Wavves too…

B: Yeah for sure some old hitters…

C: But it’s all very garage rock and some videos there’s stoner rock yet with street parts, there’s more rap stuff as well. There’s just a big bubble of genres in the skate realm, but because you were into both so heavily, that’s now transferring over to you in the same exact way.

comments regretfully…

*laughter*

B: Yeah, I guess so. I guess that’s why I was never like trying to put myself into a box because with skate videos, you get all different types of music so I would end up liking it in some type of way, just the energy of the music going with the skating.

…well not regretfully, but looking at the comments where it’s every comment from, “sick, what song is this?” to like, “oh, shitty music, ruining skate parts”. I thought it was super funny, but it was my first time learning about what comes with a wide audience; it was a good learning experience. I was super hyped to get in there though because I remember when I was skating and stuff, I would be seeing people get their songs in Thrasher on a skate video as well as them being skaters like that’s so crazy so to finally get my song into a Thrasher part was a good realization.

C: You landed one of your songs in a Thrasher video recently too, what was that like for you?

B: It was crazy. It was a crazy experience. It was just weird being exposed to that wide of an audience for the first time in forever or the first time ever honestly. When that large of an audience comes, there comes a lot of opinions in every type of way possible. I was looking at the

C: And you’ve been featured in Thrasher too right, like a couple of pictures here and there?

RB: Yeah, just some photo graffitis. It was never for an ad or anything, but yeah, been in a few of those, kind of like a big collage of peoples images.

C: Diving into music, I know your recent pseudonym was known as Düel Vessels,

where did that come from?

B: Düel came from early quarantine. Basically when everything was shutting down, I had a lot of time inside, not really doing anything. As far as the name, it came from me living in this tiny room at the time with just all this gear that I had that essentially took up the whole bedroom so it’s kind of just like gear and bed. I really just came from that and having all of it on this big ass table and seeing all this gear in front of me and thinking it was like a duel between all these vessels, trying to function all of them, and all of it coming together. It was super weird though because the sound that it ended up being is like way different from what it started out as, like all the stuff I have recorded on tape is a completely different sound than the EPs that I have out so it really turned into something different before anything came out.

electronic, but I wasn’t even pulling from electronic influences really. I was pulling from more like Cluster, early krautrock, NEU!, and very much that early 70’s German wave. When I finally got my tape machines, I was trying to mix electronics with tape and thought it was super cool. Putting out the EPs though was a completely different vibe, but who knows, maybe everything recorded on those tapes will be released someday in the next five years or something once it goes back to its original being.

C: Tell me about Redder and Plerb.

B: Oh no… *laughter*

C: What did it start as compared to what it ended up being?

B: It began as definitely more

You always have those, those early projects that you can kind of cringe out about. You don’t really know which direction you want to go in, but I’m glad they happened. Even the Plerb stuff I’ll look back on every now and then, and won’t completely cringe at some of the stuff. I’m glad I mixed that well for how long I had been doing music for at that time. It had

probably been like two years that I was doing Plerb stuff and recording it all myself. Plerb was fun, definitely a lot of influences going into that, a lot of 80’s techy electronic, Kraftwerk, Devo-esque vibes.

C: And Redder was garage rock type of stuff right?

B: Fuzzy garage rock, not really knowing how to play instruments too well, just being inspired by garage rock I guess. It was fun times, got to have a couple garage shows out of my house, but good times to reminisce on I’d say.

skate premier and they wanted me to play it. This was a month out at this point and I was kind of iffy on the whole thing because I had no idea how I was going to do it, I hadn’t even planned, but was like, “whatever” and just make something happen, seems like a fun time. It was a good turn out, just getting the energy from the audience was really cool for the front man vibe since it was just me up there. A lot of people turned out and ended up going as well as your first show could possibly go.

C: Because you got to perform under multiple aliases, what’s it like playing a show for you?

C:Whenever you play shows, do you ever get nervous? Do you freak out a little bit? Do you not feel your hands? How do you feel before a show?

B: It’s very fun. I’ve only played two with Düel so far and it’s funny because I was never having any intentions whatsoever on playing any Düel shows, like even playing it live at all. It came down to one of my friends hitting me up because there was this

B: I’m trying to remember. I think leading up, I was never really too nervous because of the way I was going to be playing the live set. I wasn’t really functioning too much; I was playing the backing tracks to the songs and then adding on top of it, playing keys and such, so the backing track was going to keep me in place

anyway. I could just add on these key parts that weren’t on the song, vocal parts. I definitely like the fact of not being too tied to an instrument and I was able to do the front man thing, but going from that, I want to get to a place where I’m functioning with an instrument going forward with the new stuff I’m going to be releasing with these tapes. It has a lot of guitar and everything, so with the upcoming shows, I’ll probably be playing guitar and it’ll be more of a functional set I feel like. I can’t wait for that.

a backwards way of working. The visuals, cartoons, that’s what starts it off that would make me want to start making a song and then I’ll usually lay down the song on voice memos first and then I’ll do a rough structure demo of it.

C: I feel like that’s where all the good songs start anyway, just to kind of get a riff down.

C: When you’re making everything, what’s your usual creative process?

B : These days, I’d say watching cartoons is what has been giving me inspiration to create sound and it always goes back to me wanting to create a feeling. I’ve been getting a lot of inspiration to create sound through sight, through what I’m seeing. These posters sometimes give me sounds that I would want to make. If this was an album cover, what would I want that music to sound like? Almost like

B: Yeah, I really love voice memos dude. It picks up really good shit. I’ll play the drum machine out of an amp, play guitar through an amp and usually lay it down that way and within the next couple weeks, I’ll decide if I actually want to go through with this song, go from there, and hopefully finish the song.

C: On the topic of demos and precursors to actual releases, can you tell me about Douglas Milk?

B: Ahhhh, okaaaay, yeah that’s a project I’m working on with my friend Bella. We decided to start doing

that probably mid last year. It was whenever I was working on all that folk stuff that I wanted to put out but never got around to finishing because I moved on too fast, but that’ll probably end up being Douglas Milk stuff all those songs because it would be good with that. It’s going to be me and Bella, be more acoustic-based, real drums, and probably record all that on tape. It’s going to be a nice little folk project.

sounds good”, just getting to a place where I’m better at recording and just recording a lot. I want to put out a lot more than I did last year and it seems like it’s going at a good pace at the moment.

C: Do you plan on doing physical copies of those releases or keeping everything online?

C: That’s really exciting. What does the next year or two look like for you in regards to projects?

B: Well in the next year since we just entered this new 2022 zone, I’ve been trying to get to a place like we talked about earlier where we’re satisfied with putting music out ourselves and make it sound up to par with our standards, look back at it, stand behind it, and be proud of it. I just want to be in a place where I can release music from here in my bedroom and it sound good enough to where I can be like, “oh yeah, that

B: Oh, totally. Yeah because I’ve never done…I’ve never done physical copies, dang I just realized that. This next project I have is called “Sudden Myths” and for the first release, we’re going to be putting out some songs on tapes so we’ll be releasing cassettes and hopefully get it on Soundcloud and all because I’ve never put anything on there so it’ll be a new platform to put something out on.

C: With Soundcloud, would you hope to do Apple Music or Spotify as well or keep it more lowkey?

B: No, I’ll probably put it out everywhere and like TikTok and stuff.

*laughter*

C: That would be cool. Now for a random question: referencing a hat I saw you in once, does country music still make you horny?

B: Oh yes, every time dude. Everyone was asking me about that. I would wear that in public restaurant settings

and just be catching an eye here and there, a side eye from an older person, but I retired that hat. It no longer has function or is being worn. My dog chewed it up after that show so…

C: Second to last question: why do you create?

B: I would say to create emotion. For

me, when I listen to music, I’d say I search for more of an emotion through the sound rather than the lyrics even. I try to just deliver an emotion to someone else that came from me. I’ll pull an emotion from anything like we were saying earlier, cartoons or these posters I have on my wall, I’ll try to create that emotion through sound and hopefully someone else can feel that same thing. That’s kind of why I want to create soundtracks or like scores for a movie. I’d watch a scene happen and then add my own interpretation of how it would make me feel into sound. I would say I create to evoke emotion.

making enough, and I could feel those things too. Recently, I’ve been trying to learn to give myself credit for what I’ve done in the past rather than thinking I should be working more right now. Even these days, I’ve been thinking that there’s time going by and I’m not making enough, but then you just have to slow down, look back, and I realize I made like 20 songs in the past two months. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I just want to look back and give myself credit for what I’ve done and then inspiration just comes naturally. I think we should just carry a bit of empathy within us.

C: With evoking emotion, how would you say empathy ties into what you do?

C: Seeing as how you create music to evoke emotion, it seems like you’re already doing a good part on your own to channel into other people’s feelings as well so keep it up man.

B: A lot dude. I feel like everyone should hold a little bit of it within themselves, especially as artists. From every artist I hear talk about it, everyone’s kind of hard on themselves and can think they never work hard enough, being productive enough,

For a closer look and listen to the life of the creator himself: feel free to do your research, discover, get lost, and feel the emotion of it all.

Instagram: @b27.nine

Bandcamp: Düel Vessels

Featured Thrasher Video: Josh Douglas’ “Air’s on Fire”

Mia Bruce, Grasp , oil paint on canvas paper, 2022

Droopywing, It’s Like They Thing My Heart Doesn’t Bleed , digitized photograph, 2022

Samantha Orellana, Birds in Love , collage, 2022

Samuel Signer, Untitled , mixed-media collage, 2022

MAKE CURIOUS CONVERSATIONS A PART OF YOUR CONNECTION RITUAL

WHAT’S YOUR VIBE?

“Therapy in a card deck! Not really, but really.”

- T. Fonze