Misael

Columbia INCITE | Oral History_David Castillo_Misael Natividad_3-6-19

Q:

Today's date-- it's March the 6th. This is David Emmanuelle Castillo. I work for the Department of Black and Latino Male Achievement and serve as a planning assistant. I have Misael Natividad with me. Do I have your permission to record this interview--

NATIVIDAD:

Yes.

Q:

--for the 2019 Art Start Portrait Project?

NATIVIDAD:

Yes.

Q:

Perfect. Just to provide you with some background info-- our department partnered with Turnaround Arts Milwaukee and Art Start to execute the Portrait Project. And we're focusing on young men of color in Milwaukee through images, oral history interviews, as well as other creative sessions. We are providing our men a platform where they can be self-determined, see themselves how they want to be seen, and share this with the world. That said, we'll get this interview started.

Tell me about the most memorable childhood experience you can recall.

NATIVIDAD:

The most memorable childhood experience would probably be when I was around like the age of-- I think it was six. My mom had a day off for the first time in the longest time. And we were able to spend a whole day together. I remember that day we ended up buying an Xbox 360, and I remember I was being really happy and excited.

And I just remember that we had so much fun that day. It was like the first time I was able to actually hang out with my mom when I was little. It was like the first time ever, and it was something we never did. So I really, really just took advantage of that day and just tried to have as much fun as we could.

We went to the movies. I forgot what movie it was, but we went to the movies. And after that we went to-- we just went home, and we hooked up the Xbox. That's when I started playing it with my mom.

And that was the end of the day, pretty much. I just fell asleep. I just remember the next day waking up extremely happy just knowing that I was able to hang out with my mom for at least a day.

Q:

True. Tell me a little bit more about that day, just any details you can recall.

NATIVIDAD:

Well, I remember--

Q:

--and then sharing whatever you feel comfortable sharing, of course.

NATIVIDAD:

I remember that my sister, actually, was with us, but she was only like two-- no, three at the time. She was three. And I remember I would have to carry her while my mom did the-- putting the stuff in the cart. We were at Walmart and stuff.

And then we went to Best Buy. I remember that my sister started crying because we had gotten lost, and I was panicking. And she kind of started crying, so I kind of started too, you know, because I thought we were lost, and we weren't going to find our mom. So finally, we found her. I don't know. Thinking about it was pretty funny because we weren't even that far away from her. It was like two or three aisles away from her, and I thought we were lost forever.

Q:

So with that said-- you brought up your mom, your sister. Have you had another opportunity like that since that moment?

NATIVIDAD:

Well, as of recently, yeah. Now that I've gotten older, and now that I've started working, she's been able to have way more time to spend with us at home. And especially on our birthdays is days where we really don't care about anything else other than just family time. And we will go to the movies, or we'll go eat at a restaurant. We just go out to places and just do whatever.

But when I was little, I never had chances like that before. I never really spent time with my mom when I was little because she was a really busy person. I mean, to this day, she's still a pretty busy person with her job, being a team leader, which is like above the supervisors but right below the managers. She's in between, and she's been working hard for as long as I can remember.

And well, I think it was just being able to work with her and have experiences like that is something that I cherish a lot. More recent, I've been able to hang out with her way more than I used to. And yeah,

Q:

Awesome. At the risk of this probably sounding like a dumb question, but why is that so important to you or so meaningful for you?

NATIVIDAD:

Because growing up, my-- I mean, my dad was around with us. He was just never somebody who stuck around. He was just there to be there. He never helped out. He never-- he just was living with us, pretty much. It was like pretty much a stranger in our house, even though he was our parent. Even though he was our dad, he was more of a stranger.

And my mom was somebody who really worked the hardest to get us where we wanted and make us happy. And just being able to actually hang out with her for a full day was something that I really, really cherished as like-- I'll only see her maybe like a couple minutes a day and a couple hours, and then she'll have to go to work. And then she'll come back extremely late, like around 12:00 or 1:00 in the morning.

And just being able to hang out with her, like a day at least, it was something that I thought was like the best thing ever that can happen. Whenever that would happen, I didn't care about my homework. I didn't care about anything else. I would just hang out with my mom.

Q:

Sweet. What was I going to ask? All right. With that said, this is going to tie in, perfect segue, actually. Who have been the most important people in your life?

NATIVIDAD:

Yeah. Most definitely my mom and my sister. My mom-- somebody who really-- I mean, like I've been saying, she is a really hard worker. She came here to the United States with the mindset of working hard to provide for us and give us a better future that she wished she would have had.

And that's something that-- I take that as a-- that's motivation to do my best and just make her proud and show her that her sacrifice of leaving her country to come here and leaving her parent family behind, leaving her sister, her brother, her mom, her dad, who passed away recently-- well, not recently, probably two years ago, but he passed away. And she never got the chance to see him anymore or be able to visit him or him visit us.

That is something that I constantly think about, and I really appreciate that I'm here and have the tools to make a better future for myself, a future that I know my mom would wish she would have had, a future that she wants me to have. She-- I really-- she's just--

Q:

It was hard.

NATIVIDAD:

She's just--

Q:

I'm hearing you, bro. I feel you.

NATIVIDAD:

She's just somebody who inspired me. Yes, during middle school and stuff, I didn't do my work like that. I really took everything for granted.

And then once I started growing up and started realizing things more and more, I realized like, damn, I got to mature. I got to start doing stuff. I got to prove that her sacrifice wasn't for nothing. So that's when I first started taking school serious.

Up to this day, I've been taking school serious, and I was an honor student for two years in a row. This is my third year being an honor student. I'm hoping to at least graduate as valedictorian. That's like my main goal right now.

Who knows if it's possible, though? I mean, it could be, as long as I work hard enough for it.

But yes, she's one of the most important people in my life.

And then my sister-- just somebody who I want to teach to avoid the mistakes that I made during school. I would never do work, and I was just slacking off. I guess the whole no kid behind rule thing they have in the schools is the only reason why I passed, but once I made it to high school, and I realized, yeah, that's not here. That's when I realized, yeah, I really have to start doing this more harder than what I did the year before or seventh grade.

My sister now, she's in eighth grade, and I was helping her with everything she needed. I try to guide her the way-- because I didn't have anybody to help me because, to be honest, if it weren't because I wasn't-- I didn't know anything about schools-- I probably would've never made it to Bradley Tech. I would've probably been somewhere like Reagan or King because I feel like those schools would have helped me get to where I want to be at more better, but I mean, it's not like I regret coming here, as I got new opportunities and exposed to doing things.

That's what I'm hoping to do with my sister, help her realize there's more than just Bradley Tech because all I knew was Bradley Tech and South Division. And I didn't want to go to South because that's a school that, based on what my mom told me, was not a school that I would want to go to. And just trying to help out my sister with that is something that I really try my hardest.

Right now, she applied for Reagan, and I think she said she got a-- what's it called? A letter, an acceptance letter. And she also applied for here, Bradley Tech, and she also got accepted here. And she's kind of thinking of coming here because she sees the opportunities that I get

here. And she's kind of interested in that now.

She's seen that because the hard work that I have been putting in into my classes, like my engineering classes, I'm starting to get internships from big companies that are interested in having me work for them as a high school student. And she's like-- she kind of gave up like her old dream of being a nurse and wants to become now an engineer. And she's also kind of wanting to learn about welding. She wants to do that stuff now.

And I'm not trying to tell her what to do. I just want her to do what she wants to do, but I try to tell her things that are like, if you go to Reagan, this will happen. But if you come here, it will be different. It depends on your style, whatever you want or like.

But to go back to the question, my sister and my mom are the most important people that I have in my life. And I would do anything to protect them. I want to set an example for my sister, but I also want to make my mom proud and see that everything she's done for us is paying off.

Q:

Thanks for sharing that, man. When I say the word community, what comes to mind for you?

NATIVIDAD:

Well, the first thing that came to mind was Mexico. When I was little-- not-- I mean, I was like 7 or something or 8-- I went to Mexico. And it was the first time I ever experienced like a little town that everybody knew each other.

Q:

Like a pueblo?

NATIVIDAD:

Yeah, a pueblo. Everybody knew each other. Everybody knew what was going on in each other's lives. It was the first time I ever experienced something like that, and it was cool to experience something different, compared to what I experience in Milwaukee every day, just having a neighbor who you have a connection to, compared to down here where I have neighbors, but I don't even know who they are. They don't know who I am. To them, I could be somebody dangerous, as opposed to in Mexico, where everybody there is friendly and where everybody is like a family.

That's what comes to my mind when I think of community. That's something that I wish I could have experienced here instead of somewhere else. I wish I would've experienced it somewhere where I call home and not a place where my bloodline is from. This is something that trips me up sometimes. Even to this day, I'll walk around the neighborhood, and nobody

really likes you and stuff. I'm like, damn.

But going back to days when I was in Mexico, you'll be walking around the street, and people will be like, oh, hey-Q:

Hey, compa. Buenos dias.

NATIVIDAD:

--or you're walking down the street, and this old lady that lived down the road, she'll be like, [SPEAKING SPANISH]. And going back down here, they'll just look at you and mean mug you.

They don't even say a word to you. It's different.

It's something that feels more of a community there than here, which is crazy because-- I mean, people view Mexico as a terrible place. They only focus on the bad stuff, like narcos and stuff. But to go there and experience it for yourself, you realize that Mexico's probably a better place than the United States, if I'm being honest. People, they're more united than in the United States.

Q:

So I'm going to ask you, why do you think that is in the United States? What do you think contributes to that?

NATIVIDAD:

I mean, I guess just going back to the colonial days, I guess. Back when we only had the 13 colonies, I feel like that's what really divided the people here. I mean, what does-- history says they view the Native Americans as low, lower than them, or lessers.

And I guess that kept going into the modern day to the point that now police are just killing innocent black males for no reason, young black males, and not even just young black males.

It could be a Latino as well.

But to really think about the a place that we're supposed to have freedom, and we're supposedly all equal and have rights to live here and realize that that's not the reality of things.

The reality is that the whites, the Caucasians, really, they're higher. They have more-- what's it called? I'm trying to think of the word.

Q:

Privilege?

NATIVIDAD:

--privileges than we do. We're born into the hood, like we say, the ghettos. And it's hard for us to succeed and become something in life. It's like J. Cole said. In one of his lyrics, he said that the only heroes that we got is-- what black people have-- is either a rapper or a ball player, a

basketball player.

And when you look at Caucasians, they're everywhere. They're the most successful because like they have actors. They have lawyers. They have politicians. They have everything, something that is rare to see-- a black man or a Latino in that position, too.

Thinking about Mexico, everybody is more-- yeah, everybody is Mexican, but there's also people that aren't Mexican that live there that are treated as equals. What was it?

One of my friends, he's white. He went down to Mexico, and they treat him like he was one of-Mexican, like one of us. They would-- even though they couldn't speak English like that, they'll try to communicate with him. He said that it was an experience that he'll never forget.

Q:

Around here, it's like, learn English. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

NATIVIDAD:

Yeah. Here is like, oh, This is America. You need to learn English. Spanish is not a language, even though we don't have a specific language that's spoken, since this is a bunch of people from different places.

But Mexico is a place where the language is Spanish, but nobody forces you to speak Spanish. But you could just speak English and just know English and go down in Mexico, and they'll at least try to communicate with you. They aren't like, oh, it's Mexico. Speak Spanish.

No. It's like-- they're more united there than we are here, as we're divided by politics and things like that, economics. It's just more united there than here, to be honest.

Q:

OK. Bringing it back to the community, how did you feel in that community when you were there?

NATIVIDAD:

I felt welcome. I felt like I was home because I don't even-- I feel out of place when I walk around here sometimes. I see a lot of people that-- like a lot of Mexicans here, like on the South Side, that don't really acknowledge that they're Mexican. They're like ashamed of being Mexican. They're like my friend Victor. He's Mexican. And like my mom said, [SPEAKING SPANISH].

Q:

[SPEAKING SPANISH].

NATIVIDAD:

Yeah. He looks fully Mexican, but yeah, he doesn't want to be called a Mexican. He says he doesn't know Spanish because he doesn't speak the beaner language. He said he's not a

beaner, and he'll talk about other Mexicans like they're lesser than him.

And then it's just something that I don't understand. If America supposed to be the home of the immigrants, pretty much, because that's what we-- the foundation of this country, immigrants-- but yeah. Immigrants aren't treated right. They're just like, oh, they're lesser people.

But yeah, in Mexico, I felt like I was right at home because everybody made an effort to get to know you. You'll go into a store, and they're like, oh, you're back and all this other stuff. And they go, oh, how was your day? Like, oh, it was fine, just buying a bag of lemons. And they'll just-- you'll have a whole conversation for hours, and you'll just feel at home.

But it's something that-- it's hard to explain, but it's more-- it'll make more sense if you experience it for yourself, pretty much.

Q:

No, yeah. I feel you. I feel you on that, man. Actually, not to take away because I'm going to give the floor back to you right now, but I went to Mexico when I was 14, 15. I spent like-- I went there because my dad got deported when I was a kid, but I had spent like a month there.

I was only supposed to go for a week, and then I pulled a slick move. I overpacked, and then I called Juan. Hey, man, I want to stay here. But that's what made me want to stay, aside from the fact that I hadn't seen my dad, and I was 14. The last time I had seen him, I was like nine because he got locked up for like five years.

But what really drew me was like the welcoming. I could go somewhere, and it was like, buenos dias, you know? [SPEAKING SPANISH]. I was just like, damn.

NATIVIDAD:

Yeah, like they care about you.

Q:

Yeah, and that rubbed off on me. So when I came back to the States, I would go places, even in my neighborhood that I lived in, which was predominantly Mexican. I'd be like, buenos dias, and people would be like, why are you telling me good morning for?

NATIVIDAD:

Like, are you crazy or something?

Q:

Yeah.

NATIVIDAD:

Like you're weird or something.

Q:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. That to me was like--

NATIVIDAD:

It's something that's not-- people are not used to here, for some reason, which is-- it's crazy.

Q:

Yeah, but man, I feel you on that. So you brought up how like that-- that experience-- how it's vastly different here in Milwaukee, right?

NATIVIDAD:

Yeah.

Q:

What neighborhood do you live in?

NATIVIDAD:

I live on-- well, I lived in three different neighborhoods. I lived on 21st and Scott, which when I was-- for a while, from when I was born to probably like eight or nine. And the time that I spent there was pretty violent, which is crazy because nobody really talks about the violence here.

It's something that nobody really talks about because I remember when I was there, there was like a mass shooting in front of our house, and the cops came. It was only like one car, but the guys had ARs and stuff. One of them had a AK-47, and the other one had a-- what was it called?-- an Uzi with an extended clip because I remember seeing it through the window. And they hid it under--

Q:

How old were you?

NATIVIDAD:

I was like eight, or--

Q:

Eight, OK.

NATIVIDAD:

And they put the guns under the bushes because the bush was removable, and there was a hole in there. And they put him in there, and then they put the bush back on.

And I remember the cops came, and they're like, what's going out? It's like, oh, there was a shooting, because my uncle was the one who called. It's like, oh, who was shooting? The people that live like four houses down there, and they never found a weapon and stuff.

And then they asked us, did you see anything? And that's when I told them, actually, the guns are under the bush there. And that's when they got locked up, but it's crazy to think about that.

In my own neighborhood, there was people having these weapons, like military weapons, pretty much, pretty much in my own backyard down here. I mean, I lived there for so long. I never expected something like that to happen.

And like a month later, there was a car parked in front of us. And I guess it was somebody's boyfriend or something. I don't know. But I don't know. It was-- these people started arguing, and somebody blew up the car, pretty much, because they set fire on it. And the car was on fire.

And I was in-- my room was in the front of the house, pretty much, and the street is right there.

And I remember seeing a yellow light. And I looked out the window, and that's when I told everybody, yo, there's a car burning in front.

And people called the cops and stuff, and they called firefighters. Then they put out the fire and stuff. Luckily, the car didn't actually blow up, blow up, but they set it on fire, hoping it would blow up.

And it's crazy because in that same house, we had neighbors in the back who had a garage.

And I guess they were beefing with somebody, and they said the garage on fire. And the fire almost reached into our house because the fire reached our garage. And it was slowly creeping into the house.

Luckily, the firefighters came and put it out, and that's when we moved. Not long after that incident happened, we moved. There's a bunch of violence there that I witnessed that doesn't get talked about on the news or anything. Nobody really pays attention to the South Side like that.

Q:

Why do you think that is?

NATIVIDAD:

Mostly because-- I mean, it's Milwaukee. It's like the most segregated city in the States. South Side is Mexicans. North Side is black people, or it could be East Side. It depends.

But nobody really thinks like, oh, it's just a bunch of Mexicans. They're not going to do anything because they're scared of being deported and stuff. So like, oh, it's peaceful down there, even though it's really not.

Not long ago, a couple of years ago, I was walking to McDonald's with one of my friends on 16th and Cesar Chavez.

Q:

Oh, I know where, exactly where.

NATIVIDAD:

Yeah, that McDonald's. We left the McDonald's, and we crossed the street to that little dentist

place because her house is like right next to it. And we were walking, and I noticed that this guy was following us that got off the bus. He was following us.

So I went up to her, and I told her, go through the parking lot because this guy's following us. I know he's going to do something. Like, oh, no, you just thinking he's crazy. You're just crazy and stuff. Nothing's going to happen. It's like, I know something's going to happen. I could feel it. Like, oh, this is South Side. Nothing happens down here.

And that's when he-- what's it called? He grabbed her because I was tying my shoe. Well, my shoe wasn't really untied. I wanted to see what he was going to do. So I was pretty much-Q:

[INAUDIBLE]

NATIVIDAD:

Quote, unquote, yeah, tying my shoe. And that's when he grabbed her and had took her phone and her wallet. And he was like at least a high schooler because he wasn't old. He wasn't a grown man. And he was like a kid or something, around probably like 16 or 17, around there.

And I remember, he grabbed her stuff and ran. And then she was like-- once I saw that, that's when I got up and went chasing after him. I was like 11 or 12. And I went chasing after him. I remember, I caught up to him and because-I mean, he was running a bit faster than me. I couldn't think of anything, another way to get him down, so I tried to tackle him. But since I knew I wasn't going to be able to take him down if I just tackled him like normal, so I went after his feet, and that's when he tripped, let go of the stuff, and-- what's it called? I grabbed her phone and the wallet, and I started-I was looking for which way to go through because there's a bunch of alleys. And I was like, if he was going to chase me, I kind of knew where I was. So I'm like, I'm just going to lose him real quick because one of my friends live nearby. So I could just cut through his house and go in through the front door because usually he opens the door right away.

And as soon as I was about to take off, he lift up his shirt. And he had a gun tucked in his pants, and then he said, you better give that back. And that's when I just ran away like as fast as I could. I wasn't sure if he was going to-- no, I don't know what happened after that, what he did.

But I remember, I told my uncle, and my uncle got pretty mad that he did that to my friend.

Even though I got the stuff back, he was pretty mad. He had a paintball gun in his trunk. He's like, let's look for him because he was going to take me that day to go paint balling, like training, pretty much, learn how to shoot. He's like, all right, we got a moving target, so maybe you can show me what you can do with the paintball.

And we went around like the blocks looking for him. We never found him, but I feel like I knew where he was because he looked pretty familiar to me. This is somebody that I've seen many times walk around the neighborhoods.

And it's like, to think that happen like in broad daylight, too. It was like 4:00 in the afternoon.

The sun was burning. It was summer. It was summer vacation. The streets were full because that's around the time that people get out of work. So the whole street is like-Q:

Seeing this.

NATIVIDAD:

--bunch of of cars. And people are seeing this, but nobody said anything. Nobody helped.

There was a guy on a corner that just watched everything happen. He didn't even help. He just looked at us like, oh, OK. Like, what do you want me to do? Like, you could at least call the cops. Like, why would I do that? Like, what if they would have grabbed us for something? Like, no.

But I feel like, yeah, it's because-- I mean, it's the South Side. People don't expect anything to happen out here just because, oh, they're all Mexican. Or they're all Latinos, pretty much.

They're like, oh, that's Puerto Ricans and Mexican. They're pretty much the same thing.

They'll just get along with each other.

But then when you really live here and experience things for yourself, you realize there's a bit of violence that's not being talked about. There's a bunch of gang activity that doesn't get out into the news, but yet things that don't really matter get into the news.

Well, I remember, I was watching the news, and I remember, it was the day after that whole gun incident thing. And the news, they didn't even talk about it or anything. They just talked about some girl who found a long-lost teddy bear or something like that.

I was like, yo, why is this on the news but not what just happened a day ago is not on the news? Can't they make the South Side people aware of the danger that's here, but make announcements to let people know to be careful around here because it's not all peaceful like they say it is. It's really dangerous out here, even though people don't think of it that way.

Q:

Think of it as that, yeah. That's interesting. All right. So that said, what are your dreams for the future?

NATIVIDAD:

Dreams for my future-- I'm hoping to become an engineer, a civil engineer, because it's a really interesting job that I really want to take on. I mean, civil engineers are something that everyone needs everywhere in the world, so it's not like I'm never going to have a job.

But I hope to become a civil engineer and to at least help my family out and just get into the position that I want them to be at because my mom is like-- right now, she's satisfied where we're at, even though in my mind, I'm like, this is not a place that we should be happy being in.

The position that we're in, it shouldn't be something we should be happy at.

But I guess I kind of understand, based on her views and where she came from, like a small rancho, yeah, I get it. Yeah, we're pretty much successful by those terms. But by my view, since I live here in the United States, and I'm exposed to different things than she was, this isn't a position that I wish we were in.

This is a position that I hope we could get out of and be in a better position later on in life. Just give my mom to the house that she always wanted. It's like every day, I tell her-- ever since I started high school, I told her, I want to become either an engineer-- a civil engineer-- or an architect. And I'm going to design the house that you always wanted.

And she always just laughs, but deep down, I know that she believes me. She supports me, but she never like says it like, oh, yeah, I know you're going to do it. She just tells me, yeah, do your hardest and stuff, but she never blatantly says, oh, yeah, I know you're going to build me my house that I want. She takes it as a joke but knows deep down that I'm being serious and that I could do it.

And yeah, my future-- I really hope that I could do what I'm setting out to do. I have many goals that, slowly but surely, I'll be able to accomplish and move on to the next because knowing how hardworking my mom is, I want to top the same work ethic that she has.

I want to match it and hopefully surpass it to show her that she really did impact me in a positive way to become somebody who made it in life, pretty much, just set out-- made it by like-- not by the standards of, oh, I'm rich and stuff-- made it as in like, I accomplish the goals that I set out for myself. And I'm in the position that I want to be in, and that I'm happy with

where I'm at at the moment.

Q:

Man, awesome. Thanks, Misael. With that said, I'm going to conclude the interview there. Is there any last thoughts you want to share, like into the mic or with the world about you?

NATIVIDAD:

15 years from now, hit me up if you want me to design a house for you.

Q:

Awesome. Nice, brother. I'll be hitting you up, dog.