Pie Mash Liquor Eels

MEMORIES AND RECOLLECTIONS COLLECTED AT THE SEASIDE PIE AND MASH SHOP 2016 22 SEASIDE ROAD / EASTBOURNE

PIE MASH LIQUOR EELS Pie and mash is a food which originated in South East London in the 1800s and was traditionally eaten by the working-classes. Due to lack of funds for local premises the “Piemen” would walk the streets selling their pies. These had a number of different fillings including meat and fruit but the most common was eels. Eels were considered cheap and plentiful as they were one of the few fish that could survive in the polluted River Thames. Pie and mash was sustenance food and was easily affordable. It is thought that there could be up to 500 “Pieman” walking the streets of London on a Saturday during the 1850s.

It was Henry Blanchard who opened the first eel and pie shop in 1844. The business was located at 101 Union Street, SE1 and for a penny sold a variety of meat, eel and fruit pies. He also sold live eels, pea soup and mashed potato. Unfortunately the popularity of Mr Blanchard’s premises saw the end of the Piemans’ heyday but encouraged the development of the pie and mash shop.

04

PIE MASH LIQUOR EELS

Pie, mash and letterpress My first memories of pie and mash were a Friday night with my family.

I must have been about six or seven and we would have take out pie and mash from Harrington’s in Tooting. We would gather all our Tupperware containers, one for the pies, one for the mash and a big jug for the liquor.

Me and my Dad would drive down to Harrington’s and queue up outside.

I remember not being able to see over the counter much as it was quite high but I remember there used to be a big metal container of mash, a big metal container of liquor and the pies would be brought up from the basement on metal trays (the pies were cooked in little metal pie dishes).

I remember the woman was really quick at serving up, she had a really worn wooden spoon that looked like she’d used it for 100 years. She would scoop the pies out of the metal dishes with a spoon and then stack the empty pie dishes on top of each other. I remember enjoying the noise of the metal clashing together. We’d always get far too much liquor but it didn’t matter cos I loved it! Donna always gives me an extra cup when I eat at Seaside Pie & Mash! My Dad and I went back to Harrington’s about a month ago and the same lady was serving. I got chatting to her and she’s been working there for the last 40 years. The man making the pies had been working there since he was about 13 and he was in his mid sixties.

The shop itself has been at the same address for over 100 years.

My love for letterpress started about eight years ago after completing a 10 week course in Brighton. As a Graphic Designer I love type and letterpress added a new way of working with it. I wasn’t staring at a 2 dimensional screen anymore. I could pick the fonts up and hold them in my hand. I like working with old wood and metal type as it has a story, a previous life. My type collection has outgrown my house and because my wife wouldn’t let me convert the dining room into a print room I’m now the proud owner of a letterpress shed in my back garden.

22 Seaside Road Whilst working on this project and chatting with Donna, (current owner of Seaside Pie & Mash), about the relevance of the old cast iron oven in the basement, I decided I’d like to delve deeper into the history of number 22. That’s how this part of the journey began. I never imagined that the research would lead me to Gowland Bros. Printing Works and that, in fact, unknown to me at the beginning of this process, I was actually bringing printing home!

Seaside Road has been renumbered on more than one occasion. It was formerly known as 5 Lewes Place and around 1874 became 25 Seaside Road. In 1917 the street was renumbered and 25 became 52. Finally in 1951 it became 22 as we know it today.

According to the earliest Street Directory in 1877, Thomas Stafford Gowland, a bookseller, stationer, printer, news and advertising agent (and originally from London) occupied the premises at 25 Seaside Road.

In 1900 he transferred the printing business to his two sons John Stewart Gowland and Thomas William Gowland who continued it under the name of Gowland Bros. Printing Works.

Gowland Bros. were still there in 1933 but by 1939 the occupants were C.E. Dunn manufacturing Stationers. Dunn’s Hillside Press was still there in 1967 but had gone by 1970.

It is not known when Lewis Terrace was built but believed to be early 1850s. It is suspected, however, that the building had been a printers almost, if not from the start until the late 1960s.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank: Jonathan Seaman, Heritage Manager at Eastbourne Borough Council, Michelle Gowland, Grenvillle Godfrey, Alan Smith and Eastbourne Local History Society for their time, knowledge and wonderful resources.

PEOPLE HERITAGE TRADITION VALUE

05

Betty Lewis

sawdust on the floor and marble tabletops Wendy Bousfield / 64

the pastry and the no-nonsense atmosphere of pie and mash shops Dirk Gently

the heat and buzz of the pie and mash shop, always a welcome smile

Whenever I come to Brighton, or any area, I normally have jellied eels. If I can, I have it with the mash and liquor like the original Cooke’s Pie and Mash shop in Stratford.

There was Cooke’s and there was Manze but that was after we left. I’m talking about in the old days when I was about five or six and my mum used to go and get so many pies. I can’t eat the pies now cos I’ve had a bit of gastric problem but I still love them. The eels suit me better than the pie. I love stewed eels.

My sister brought home a boyfriend from Germany who became Uncle Wulf. He was a fisherman and he went fishing off Minehead Pier. He caught this big conga eel.

He went out in the boat and caught it and my mum put it in the sink. She couldn’t eat it. It absolutely stunk. She tried to cook it but none of us could eat it. It wasn’t like the regular eels, the river eels, it was a lot different.

When we got evacuated I was only five. The bombs made us come out of London. I was in Bow. Myself, sister and three brothers left with my mum. My Dad didn’t leave cos he was working on the Docks and they wouldn’t allow it.

Mum said “I’m not letting the kids go without me” so we were evacuated to a place called Orkham in Minehead in Somerset and I was five. I can still remember going down the underground when the bombs were falling. Anyway when the war finished, we went to school, we all grew up and my two older brothers decided they wanted to go back to London. They went back and they lived with my Dad and then they each got married. I used to go down there from Cardiff or Minehead and the first place I used

to go to was pie and mash. Cooke’s was still there and P. Lediard was still there down West Ham Lane. Tubby Isaac’s was on the corner of Petticoat Lane. He had a stall and he used to do the eels and the jellied eels with a bit of bread. I used to eat them and spit the bones out. I’ve been three times now to Seaside Pie and Mash.

I had the pie the first time. We didn’t know it was here.

My daughter sent a picture as it was in the ‘Brighton Argus’ about Oastlers, (it was called Oastlers when it was opening up). My daughter said “when you come down we’ve got to go to Eastbourne because they’ve got a pie and mash shop”. This is the only reason we come to Eastbourne really. That and the charity shops!

When I eat pie and mash now it brings back memories of the places that we went to eat it. The buckled spoons and buckled forks. You had a spoon and fork. You didn’t have knives for pie and mash. The tables weren’t nice tables like this, they were old fashioned formica. It was always busy cos it was a hot affordable meal. The kids would just have the mash and liquor and the adults would have the pies. My brother would have two pies. My niece in Barking, she had double pie and mash. I used to pay half a crown for pie and mash and whenever we felt like it we’d go for it. My sister-in-law lived in Stratford just where the Millennium Stadium is. She used to go down to P. Lediard on West Ham Lane to get pie and mash for my middle brother Jimmy, who unfortunately passed away. He used to have it regularly, every Saturday. Double pie and double mash with liquor. Jean (my sister-in-law) couldn’t eat it.

Barbara Hooker / 73

I just luv it!

Michael Adaway / 47

special London memories Patrick Keyte / 71

traditional atmosphere and fond memories of Nan that has now passed Clare Critoph / 44

we were weened on mash and liquor as babies Anne Graham / 63

nothing is like it T Steadman / 57

LOC AL / COMMUNITY / HOME / MEMORIES 06

PIE MASH LIQUOR EELS

Tara O’Connor I went to pie and mash in Brixton in London. We would have gone every weekend, it was like a family occasion. Ours was shopping on a Saturday. I remember it was always full of saw dust and the man who sold the pie and mash, the main man, always used to wear a long white doctors coat. Like an overall thing all the way to the floor. He was a very prominent man. Yes, we went there every weekend.

Because we lived in Stockwell we could go to the one on Wandsworth Road, Harrington’s. I remember all the pies used to come up on a conveyor belt from the basement. There were two or three women serving and the queue used to be outside the door and down the road.

The liquor used to come up in a great big vat. If we went to Harrington’s we used to have takeaway cos it was quite small and very busy. I think the Brixton one shut down after the riots. I used to go with my whole family.

My Nan had been eating it since the war. That’s when they used to get it in Bon Marché in Brixton. That’s originally where you used to get your pie and mash from.

Nan says thats where they used to go cos it was cheap.

It was the cheapest thing to feed her and her family.

We all craved it when we were pregnant. I lived in Hastings when I was pregnant with Lilly and I remember saying I really needed pie and mash. I needed it! I lived on the Westhill so I went all the way down the hill in the lift and the pie and mash shop was shut. I can’t even tell you. It was just closed. Silly opening hours! My daughter’s pregnant now and she craves pie and mash. My son lives in Liverpool so for his birthday last year I bought a load of

pie and mash and took it up to him on the coach.

My daughter had her eighteenth birthday in the Seaside Pie and Mash shop. We just had a few tables and we all had pie and mash.

bleeding handsome

It’s a very family thing

Ian McBride / over 21

One of my main memories is of the man in Brixton.

He never used to speak, he’d stand there like a statue, big white whiskers. There’s a picture of him on google if you Google Brixton pie and mash shop. He was friendly but had a real presence about him. It was his pie and mash shop.

We used to go down East Lane a lot, Westbourne Grove.

There’s another pie and mash shop down there called Arments and that was really busy so I said to the kids to wait outside. They were about eight and ten at the time.

While I was being served they were standing outside begging. I came out and they were like “money for the poor”. They thought it was hilarious. Especially when I came out with two big bagfuls of pie and mash. We all just love it! We come here about once a week. I still remember the prices in the one on Wandsworth Road.

It was 32p a pie, 20p for mash and 7p for liquor. I always remember that.

Gary Spenser-Denser / 39

London food at its best! it brings back memories of time gone by Robert Pepper / 73

the good old days in London Mrs B. Martin / 81

memories of sawdust, long benches, marble table tops and tiles of the walls benches Lynn Gisler / 64

family tradition Milli O’Connor / 12

family time when we were children Jenny Croker / 66

the best is introducing someone to pie and mash and they love it Pauline Pethick / 72

old people sucking on the eel bones Sue Steadman / 61

LONDON / NOSTALGIA / CHILDHOOD / UNIQUE PEOPLE HERITAGE TRADITION VALUE

07

Jenny Haybrook & Joan Alliston Joan: I used to go on Saturday lunchtimes as a child, every Saturday, that was our treat. We went to Manzes in Rotherhide. My mum took me at first and then when I got older I used to go with my friends. We used to throw jellied eel bones at the people going by. When I got married I used to take my boys there and I used to take them to the Woolworth Road one. I think it was called Cooke’s. One would eat it and one wouldn’t. He used to go to the café opposite. He still don’t eat it to this day. He wouldn’t even taste it, he just didn’t like it at all.

I take the grandchildren for pie and mash, they all like it.

It’s all about family, it’s London really, it’s what we were brought up on.

Jenny: That’s like me. I used to go with Mum, I used to be shopping and we used to call in there. I was very naughty cos when we was at school we’d get our dinner money and if you didn’t want your dinner you’d nip up to Manzes up Hill Street and have it on your own.

I don’t think Mum ever found out. I done the same when the children were little. “Oh come on lets go and have pie and mash” and now my eldest daughter she does it with her children. My youngest daughter didn’t like it.

Sometimes we used to get takeaway. You can get the pies and the liquor in a container and take it home.

Joan: My husband used to go on a Saturday and bring it back for us. Lovely it was. I crave for it. We used to go to London a lot to visit our parents and we’d always get it. We used to go to the dentist in London and we always went to the pie and mash shop as well. It’s always been a part of our lives. Then when some Londoners moved

down we were friends with, if they went to London they’d bring us a load back or the neighbours would bring it back too. It was a mass order.

Jenny: My daughter, she lives in Downham and near her they’ve got a pie and mash shop but she always phones her Dad, “if you’re going down Peckham can you call into Manzes?”. She got used to it from when I used to take her. That’s been a big part of her life.

Joan: My daughter-in-law come down and says “where shall we go for lunch, I wish we could have pie and mash” and I said “I do, but its not open on a Sunday”.

Jenny: We come here sometimes cos we live at Pevensey Bay. My main memory was nipping out of school to have pie and mash instead of school dinner.

The old man would have killed me if he’d known that.

Joan: They used to have saw dust on the floors. Same set up as this but full of saw dust and green tiles. They used to spit out the eel bones so it was easier to sweep up.

Jenny: That’s one thing I can’t stand - eels. I could eat jellied ones but not the steamed ones. When we have parties, the old cockney parties and they come up with a bowl of jellied eels I’ll have a bit of the jelly but not the eels. (Joan) I tell you what they used to do, the fruit pies do you remember the fruit pies they used to do? They were out of this world. With all sugar on, they used to be plums mostly. (Jenny) I never had the fruit pies perhaps it was because I only had my eight pennies or ten pennies for my pie and mash. (Joan) But they were out of this world they were!

Jenny

Joan

SATURDAY / FAMILY / WORKING CLASS / ATMOSPHERE 08

PIE MASH LIQUOR EELS

Ian First pie and mash I ever had was in the Cut, in London, half way between The Young Vic and The Old Vic. I was 19, working as a Production Carpenter, doing fit ups and get outs. The old boys had their routine, the Master Carpenters and the Electricians, the electricians all wore jumpers, I remember that, and they had boats in Portsmouth. Anyway, they’d finish a get out (that’s when you take the set down) and all go for pie and mash. There were blue gingham table cloths, I remember that. It was steamy. Eight thirty in the morning and a big plate of pie and mash. They all had the eel pie but I couldn’t. I had steak and kidney pie and mash and they wouldn’t let it go, always on at you about the eels. They thought I was a wuss!

Jane

Jane Burrowes I lived in Woolwich all my life, one of the main places for pie and mash and I never, ever tried it. This is my first time and its really nice! Think I was put off by the liquor they say its made of eels but this wasn’t was it? I definitely don’t like jellied eels. I remember we went to tea with my Nan every Saturday and we got winkles and cockles and yellow fish, smoked haddock, but never eels. She lived in Plumstead Common.

David Jenkins First time was Elephant and Castle, London Road, with my Grandad, Jim. He was a knife grinder round Hammersmith and Fulham, with a barrow. I used to help him out in the early 60’s, when I was 14. He used to say “Do you want a bowl of liquor?” and I knew what he meant. We went back to Elephant and Castle for pie and mash. I got a taste for it. He was in his 80’s then.

He paid me about a fiver, it was a fortune. Then I use to go to Mandy’s in Tower Bridge Rd and then Arments in Westmorland Rd in Walworth - near where Charlie Chaplin was born. When I was a young man I would have three pies and mash before I went to the football - Spurs.

My family moved to Hackney in ‘62. I used to go to a club called Tiles in Oxford Street. If it was a bad gig we used to get the tube back from Tottenham Court Rd to Bethnal Green, come out of the station up to Cambridge Heath Rd and go in the pie and mash shop there. When you see the green stuff it puts you off. But once you have it, it knocks you out.

David

It’s fantastic!

NUTRITIOUS / EASY / COMFORT / YUMMY PEOPLE HERITAGE TRADITION VALUE

09

10

PIE MASH LIQUOR EELS

Donna Siwicki Owner of Seaside Pie & Mash I came over 28 years ago from Poland, I worked in an office for the first part of my career whilst bringing up my children and then decided to try something different.

I didn’t really know anything about pie and mash, this business just came on the market and so I grabbed it. I was looking for a business to buy, cafes, that sort of thing and it was on one of the websites. I thought that sounds like fun. I spoke to my husband and he said “do you know what it is?”. He’s English, well his Dad was Polish, but he was born here so obviously he knows the story and history and everything, he likes the East End. We came here and met John who used to own the place before us (Oastlers in Hastings for ten years). He moved to Eastbourne for a couple of years and then decided to retire. He showed me around. It was a really busy day actually. After the purchase John stayed with me for about six weeks and told me what and how to do things.

He had a secret family recipe which I didn’t get until the exchange date and I wasn’t allowed to come and watch the pie making. That recipe is still within our family. Obviously there are issues with going away on holiday as its only me, my husband and daughter who know the recipe. If I want to go away then we have to ask my daughter to come and help out. Even my staff don’t know exactly what’s in them. I’ve been running it for eight years now. I love pie and mash, I could have it every day. In the beginning obviously it was tough as I’m not English, not a Londoner. It was kind of double foreign. People were a bit wary at the beginning. I was trying to explain that it was John’s recipe and that nothings changed. I think they grew to trust me and now they keep telling me “please don’t close, please don’t close!”.

There are a few places which have tried along the coast to open but this is the only one that has stayed. I have my regular customers, even if it’s once a year. If they come on holiday, the first thing they do is come here.

They share their stories with me, its really sweet. People love telling me stories about pie and mash. Where they’re from, which road, what pie and mash shop they used to go to and things. I do try to encourage them to talk between each other because they tend to know more

PEOPLE HERITAGE TRADITION VALUE

about the different areas of London. It’s quite sweet when they discover that they used to go to the same school or went to the same shop or were even neighbours.

It’s still most popular with the older generation. Young families do bring their children and babies. They still ween the babies on mash with a drop of liquor and then they will add a little bit of meat at the next stage. It’s still happening. I think with the younger generation there’s more competition. They have so much to choose from and they are more open to different foods. The older generation will perhaps tend to like the traditional meals so they stick to this which is really lovely. Hopefully this will stay.

My favourite part of the job is meeting people. That’s the nicest part, obviously making pies is lovely too.

Even if it’s five times a week!

I am here two hours before the shop opens in the morning. We have a sort of system so that everything flows one job after another so that’s good. I make pies, the girls will do the rest. They chop the potatoes and they clean the shop and prepare everything. I make the pies

and the liquor and then do clearing up. Today I think I’ve sold about 150 pies. Saturday that’s about average. Week days depends on the weather as well. Yesterday was very quiet because it was raining. Sometimes when it’s hot in the summer its quiet as well as people don’t fancy hot food so much. I get a lot of people coming in when on holiday, they just pop in. Sometimes coach trips from London as well. People do come here for pie and mash from London. I also have customers who buy pie and mash to take to family in London. Quite a few actually. Whether their favourite one has shut down or it’s just too far from any other pie and mash shop. They come from all over the place and that’s why I can’t really close for holidays as I have so many customers coming from further away.

It just wouldn’t be fair.

It’s not just like a café you can close for Christmas. I don’t want to let people down especially if they make an effort to come all the way. Luckily my family step in and help if I want to go away for a few days break.

I hope I’m here to stay for a while as long as people want to eat pie and mash!

11

MEMORIES AND RECOLLECTIONS COLLECTED AT THE SEASIDE PIE AND MASH SHOP 2016 22 SEASIDE ROAD / EASTBOURNE

This project forms part of the Devonshire Collective launch programme which has been designed to illustrate how the Collective aims to forge partnerships with visiting arts organisations and commission artists to deliver socially engaged projects that engage the community, fostering a sense of pride in the area and encouraging visitors to explore what the area has to offer.

Devonshire Collective is a managed entity, establishing and maintaining a self-sustaining economic model in order to support and develop emerging, mid-career and established artists across the visual and performance spectrum.

Devonshire Collective, 2016 Photos: Avant Commercial (apart from pages 4 & 10)