Parafiction and the Architectural Imagination

PARAFICTION a n d t h e ARCHITECTURAL IMAGINATION by Ashley Glesinger A D es i g n T hes i s Presented to the Facu l ty of The College of Ar chi t ec t u r e at t he U n i v er si t y o f Nebr ask a In Par tial Fu l f i l l m ent of Req u i rem ents Fo r th e Deg ree of Mas ter of A rchi tectu re M aj or : A rchi tectu re W L i ncol n, N ebras k a May 2 0 2 1

TABLE of

CONTENTS

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04

12

introduction

parafiction

abstract

The Film

parafiction

T h e We b s i t e The Architecture

76

100

mixing fact & fiction

appendix

interviews

A

setting

early studies

artifacts

B artifacts

precedents

C

narrative building

interviews

144 bibliography

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“I think one’s art goes as far and as deep as one’s love goes. I see no reason for painting but that.

If I have anything to offer, it is my emotional contact with the place where I live...”

–Andrew Wyeth

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Olson’s, Andrew Wyeth, 1992

acknowledgments

I would first like to thank my advisor, Rumiko Handa, who has shared an endless amount of time and knowledge in the making of this project. Thank you for helping me learn the difference between a “good student” and an independent thinker. You have guided my exploration of what I think architecture should be, and for that, I am forever grateful.

Thank you to the faculty members in the College of Architecture who have offered thoughtful feedback and encouragement this year and throughout my time at UNL. Thank you to Ash Smith and Carrie Lambert-Beatty for offering expertise in your respective fields and for helping me see the project from other perspectives.

Finally, a special thank you to everyone who offered your memories, skills, keepsakes, and personal stories to help build this project:

Ed and G r a ce G lesi n ger

Jo a n McMa n a m a n

Ja ck i e H er l ey

S t e v e Fox - S p a l d i n g , N E

K i t t y C a r li n

Jo hn G o o d r i c h

D eb P r i t c ha r d

M a t t hew G l es i n g er

Leila Ba u er

Ja ck Po ul i o t

Ja n et K a sp er b a u er.

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abstract

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I observe current architecture practice to be too reality-driven. As a response to this issue, this thesis demonstrates parafiction as one productive method of exercising architectural imagination. I define parafiction as a type of fiction that begins with a fact and is presented as a fact in order to demonstrate what the world could be. To create parafictions, I have used multi-medium techniques of representation. Through the representations, this thesis strives to “make present” one person’s imagination.

I see parafiction and architecture both as projective activities.

Specifically, that both redefine relationships to what already exists and create tension between the present and what could be. To demonstrate parafiction as a productive technique of exercising imagination in architecture, this project consists of a short mock documentary, website, and archive that will be presented as factual. The website and documentary follow my journey of discovering a self-taught female architect from the same rural Nebraska village where I grew up. The life of this person is constructed from found photographs, archived newspapers, fabricated letters, and objects, carefully curated interviews, and simulated architectural drawings. The artifacts are recontextualized and re-presented to create an alternative narrative and richness to a seemingly unassuming place.

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Parafiction is a type of fiction that begins with a fact and is presented as a fact in order to demonstrate what the world could be.

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ARCHITECTURE a s

projection “both the future and the past have roles to play. Before it can anticipate anything final, the project must redefine its relationship to what exists, partly tearing itself away from the present , partly remaining there, creating a tension between the two.”

The Project of Design Research -David Leatherbarrow

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ARCHITECTURE a n d

parafiction

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1. Architects speculate on possible future realities through multiple forms of mediation.

“The pl aus i b i li t y o f a n y p a r a fi ct i o n i s a chi e ved b y em b r a c i n g a l l o f t he m ed i a t ha t i n t er v en e i n t he w o r l d a n d c ha l l en g i n g thi s medi a t o b e o t her t ha n i t i s a ssu m ed t o b e.”

2. Parafiction positions the relation between abstraction and realism through aesthetics.

“Ar chi tectur e ha s t r ea t ed t hese a s a n t i t het i ca l cat eg o r i es. T hi s o p p o si t i o n i s m i r ed i n t he hi st o r i c a l u n d er st a n d i n g o f t hese tw o ter ms t hr o u gh et hi cs a n d e p i st em o log y, t r ea t i n g a est het i c s a s sec o n d a r y a n d d er i v ed f r o m t he o t her t w o. T hi s l ea d s t o pr o bl emati c p o si t i o n s i n whi ch a n a r chi t ect i s cast a s ei t her c o n c e p t u a l ( a b st r a c t ) o r sen so r i a l ( r ea l i st ) , ei t her a va n t - ga r d e (abstract) o r p r a gm a t i c (r ea li st ).”

3. Parafiction places the responsibility of political intervention on aesthetic production “Paraf i cti on a sks wha t ha p p en s when t he a est het i c s o f t he w o r l d a r e d i sr u p t ed , when d o u b t i t sel f b ec o m es a est het i c, a n d thr o ugh thi s, wha t a ct i o n s b eco m e p o ssi ble, wha t p l a u si bl e r ea l t i es b ec o m e a va i l a bl e. ”

The Art of the Plausible and the Aesthetics of Doubt -Michael Young

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The Film

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To demonstrate parafiction as a productive technique of exercising imagination in architecture, this project consists of a short mock documentary, website, and archive that will be presented as factual.

The website and documentary follow my journey of discovering a self-taught female architect from the same rural Nebraska village where I grew up. The life of this person is constructed from found photographs, archived newspapers, fabricated letters, and objects, carefully curated interviews, and simulated architectural drawings. The artifacts are re-contextualized and re-presented to create an alternative narrative and richness to a seemingly unassuming place.

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Premiere Pro audio and video layers

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film synopsis

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BACK HOME Spalding , NE

At the beginning of the Covid 19 Pandemic in March 2020, I packed my things, and went back to Spalding, Nebraska. I thought I might visit for a few weeks. The few weeks became over a year.

This is a compilation of video diaries, interviews, and photos taken over the last year of discovering that this outwardly unremarkable place may hold something worthwhile.

00:00:00

00:01:00

ORDINARY FARMHOUSE K e l l y Fa m i l y H o m e

In March 2020, I helped my father clean out his aunt and uncles farmhouse.

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FINDING THE BOX

BRIDGET B

K e l l y Fa m i l y H o m e

Alumni Book

While we were cleaning out the house, I found this box. Inside, it had tons of trace paper drawings in it. I took it home.

00:02:00

THE FLOOR PLANS Box Contents

Each sheet has two floor plans mideival looking compound. It plan in the corner, with a larg middle. It’s like someone copied somewhere. Judging by the plan tion. my guess is they are some pean religious structures. They box with the name Bridget on he vaguely remembers his uncle a sister named Bridget.

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BIO

k

I decide to look her up in the alumni book.

Good news and bad news. The good news is that she graduated the same year as my grandma. The bad news is she’s dead.

00:03:00

OLD WORKPLACE Spalding Librar y

s of some ts like a little ger one in the d them from n organizae sort Euroy were in a it. Dad says e Robert had

Today I’m going to the public Library. I called the librarian Deb, and said there’s a bunch of random pictures and Spalding history in the old bank vaults in the back.

I’m just going to try to see what I can find…

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BRIDGET BIO Accession Book

Deb also gave the check-out notebook from the 1950’s which has all of the books Bridget checked out. There are pages and pages of books. I checked out all I could find, but I’ll never be able to look through them all.

00:04:00

00:05:00

PILOT

PIL

Spalding Enter prise 1959

City Auditori

Deb let me take whatever I wanted out of the library to document at home, and I honestly found some pretty good stuff. It looks like Bridget was actually piloting a small personal plane when she died. I’m surprised I never heard about this.

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BRIDGET BIO S o u t h D a k o t a C C C We b s i t e

Let’s see what we can find out about this guy He was architect for the Civilian Conservation Corps and in 1936 and he joined troop 757 in Spalding. It looks like he’s also a University of Minnesota of graduate in the Architecture program. Bridget would have been like 5 when they met, but maybe he taught her some basics… or at least got her interested.

00:06:00

LOT

ium Collection

This has to be the oldest drawing here. It says by John and Bridget on the back...

I took the drawing home to document it.

I’m guessing no one is going to miss it. The drawing looks to be construction drawings for a wooden grandstands structure. The block at the bottom says its drafted by a John Anderson for the Civilian Conservation Corps.

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‘THE CCC PLANTED TREES’ Edward Inter view

“when I was in fir school, the cccs pla of the schoolhouse half a mile long. A of all different kin

00:07:00

‘WE WERE BEST FRIENDS’ Grace Interview

We met when we were going to catechism classes CCD classes, and she lived in the country. And I suppose I was about 13 maybe 13. I’m 86. That’s how many years that’s…

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GROUND OBSERVER CORPS G r o u n d O b s e r v e r ’s G u i d e

One of the more peculiar things I found was a Ground Observer’s Guide. It looks to be a handbook for this program by the airforce. The book has protocol on how to spot planes with the plastic card that was tucked in the pages. Punched through the edge was a membership pin, and an accreditation card with Bridget Kelly’s name on it.

rst grade, out at Country anted the trees right south e there, and they planted a And about 100 feet wide nds of trees.”

00:08:00

0

CCC Caboose Museum

This group photo has names written on the back, and one of the men is John Anderson! He looks like a nice enough guy...

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‘EVERYBO

00:09:00

00:10:00

COULDN’T DO ANYTHING ELSE Kitty Carlin Interview

And the only other thing you could do when you graduated from high school, was you could go to Omaha and work for Mutual Company, study to be a nurse, or teach school. Those are the three things - or be a beautician. Those are the things that the girls could do. And they couldn’t do anything else but that.

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ODY WAS IN THE SAME BOAT’ Kitty Carlin Collection

Housewife in the 50s was probably hard on women. I don’t know how… how I did it. I look back and but everybody else was in the same boat. And our job was to do the cooking, the cleaning, the washing, the lawn work, did all the mowing of the lawn.

Everything. The husband would just make the money and they came home and sit in that chair until you get supper ready for him.

00:11:00

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E

00:12:00

LEARNING TO FLY Theresa Kelly Interview

I would assume so… She probably hassled him until he compromised and taught her how. I know he felt responsible for her accident in some ways. I’m pretty sure it was his plane she was flying when she died. I think it was several years before he flew again.

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CCENTRIC CHILDHOOD Theresa Kelly Collection

After my grandpa died, she had to make her own living, and she would work at the theater for her Sister’s family as a projectionist. She loved watching the actresses in the films over and over and would come home and perform the scenes for Bridget and my father.

00:13:00

00:14:00

FREE SPIRIT Theresa Kelly Collection

I think Bridget took after her in some ways. I think she was kind of a free spirit, but she saw how my grandma felt kind of limited in some ways, by getting married so young and having her and my dad, I think Bridget wanted to make her own way in the world.

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SISTER HILDEGARD facebook

Hoping take to Hildega Faceboo Hildega she was few peo pastime drawin

00:15:00

PLAN ORIGINS

BRIDGET’

1 0 1 C l o i s t e r Fl o o r P l a n s

GOC obse

A few months before she died, Bridget checked ou the book 101 Cloister Plans.

The next day the library was open, and I checked out the book. The plans match the trace paper I found exactly! Bridget must have traced these plans onto the paper.

That’s a strange exercise.

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CLOISTER PROJECT Sr. Hildegard Collection

g Sister Hildegard is still alive, I o facebook. I luck out. Sr. ard is alive and well. I send her a ok message and hope for the best. ard and I chatted on the phone, and s helpful. Hildegard was one of the ople who knew about Bridget’s secret e. She mailed me some of Bridget’s ngs to archive for my project

00:16:00

’S PROCESS

er vation tower

In the drawings, Bridget’s inspiration is so evident. I think the Observation tower is her improved version of the GOC hill hut.

In the observation tower drawings, the lines of the stilts are pretty contemporary for her time. In each iteration, her process becomes more evident. It seems she was close to settling on something that almost looks like a small town watertower – perhaps to allow it to blend into the landscape.

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Bridget’s final project they abbey was, in my opinion, her most compelling. The compound seems to be cast concrete. In form and material is reminds me a lot of other contemporary churches and monasteries of the time.

PLACE FOR MOTHERS Sr. Hildegard Collection

Bridget seemed to have more than just the sisters in mind when she was designing these spaces. Several of her renderings have newspaper mothers and children taped in as scale figures. It’s almost as if she is trying to convince her friends that they can be both a mother and have a career.

00:17:00

00:18:

30

:00

00:18:40

NEW APPRECIATION Theresa Kelly Collection

Actually, much of what Bridget did was really smart. In the year I spent discovering this woman with the same background as me, who had never left the town, never received a formal education, but used what she had around her to design changes my viewpoint of what I think architecture should be. Like me, Bridget saw problems with the place she was in and she wanted more than what was conventional at the

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time but Instead of turning away from where she happened to be, and running from it, she embraced it and was inspired by it. Her situation made her more unique and creative. Searching for her, I revisited many places I had previously overlooked, and gained a new appreciation for where I’m from and the people who live there.

T h e We b s i t e

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It is through the website that the fictive elements of the documentary may begin to disclose themselves. The website features all of the images and artifacts shown in the documentary as the online archive. I have discretely captioned the images first with their fictional roles and then with their factual origin. For those who are curious enough about the factualness of the documentary,the website encourages them to look deeper, and through their investigation, the facts begin to disclose themselves.

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Archive

structure

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PATH:

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PATH:

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PATH:

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PATH:

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the architecture

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For the architecture, I act as a ghost author. All of the drawings will be process drawings. Through the traces on the drawings, the process of creating the spaces are revealed, revealing both her imagination, and once you come to realization that she does not exist, my imagination and process

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Darden Method

A few speculative pieces were created for Bridget’s portfolio by

grain silo

pivot circle

water witcher

Piper Cub j3

old plow

Piper Cub drawings

tractor tire

Savage Bros. plane

1950’s tractor

The Blob

using the Discontinuous genealogies method used by Douglas Darden in his Book Condemned Buildings, where he samp les several images based on the progr am of the building or around a theme and collages them together.

The collaged image acts as a sort of spring board for the formal design of the building Before the end of the last semester, I learned

t

that Bridget’s projects should not be finalized objects. Instead, it would be more interesting to see the drawings as insight into her process and imagi nation.

From this realization, working drawi ngs with possibilities the character was imagining for the building are layered on top of each other, scratched out, and annotated in the case of the fallout dream village.

In order to use Darden’s method as a precedent, I first gathe Many of these influences are agricultural, local, aeronautica

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elevator, Spalding

Spalding Dam

dust bowl home

1930s grain storage

1940’s train

Spalding station

Sputnik launching gear

downtown Spalding

Russian missiles

top of St. Michaels

Russian plane

dust storm

1950’s auger

railroad failure, Spalding

Roman Missal

fall out shelter

Wizard of Oz

windmill drawings

beef cuts

pivot

Piper Cub dash

Geiger counter

Spalding dam

metal chicken house

ered images that are plausible to have been influences in Bridget’s life. al, and cultural influences.

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dream home ad

Soil Rehab Center

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G O C O b s e r va t i o n To w e r

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Fa l l o u t D r e a m V i l l a g e

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Cloister Process

The method for the cloister is similar to the prior projects in that the floor plans of the original cloisters are real, and in my process of deconstructing and reconstructing them, I am fictionalizing and re-presenti ng them as a new thing.

I have gathered floorplans from monasteries from a variety of time periods and places. I have traced the floor plans both in rhino and by hand on trace paper. The rhino traces are the evidence of my process and the trace paper is the evidence of Bridg et’s. I then sampled elements from the plans in ways that differ from their original orientations to create new 3-dimensional spaces

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Monastery floor plans sampled from online collections. The Plans were then traced in Rhino and by hand.

The elements from these plans were used as a base to create the monastery architecture.

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interviews

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The following interviews were conducted with local community members. The interviews with Grace, Edward, and Kitty were conducted with questions not directly related to the storyline. The interview with Theresa was scripted with plot goals in mind.

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GRACE

friend of Bridget

“We met when we were going to catechism classes CCD classes, and she lived in the country. And I suppose I was about 13 maybe 13.

I’m 86.”

For the full unedited interview, see Appendix C.1

KITTY

friend of Bridget

“ And the only other thing you could do when you graduated from high school, was you could go to Omaha and work for Mutual Company, study to be a nurse, or teach school. Those are the three things - or be a beautician. Those are the things that the girls could do.

And they couldn’t do anything else but that.”

For the full unedited interview, see Appendix C.3

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EDWARD

g r a c e ’s h u s b a n d , k i t t y ’s b r o t h e r

“when I was in first grade, out at Country school, the cccs planted the trees right south of the schoolhouse there, and they planted a half a mile long. And about 100 feet wide of all different kinds of trees.”

For the full unedited interview, see Appendix C.2

THERESA

neice of Bridget

“I think Bridget took after her in some ways. I think she was kind of a free spirit, but she saw how my grandma felt kind of limited in some ways, by getting married so young and having her and my dad, I think Bridget wanted to make her own way in the world.”

For the full unedited interview, see Appendix C.4

77

the setting

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The village of Spalding, Nebraska was chosen for the setting of this parafiction. It makes a good setting for parafiction, because it is relatively unknown, but there are many like it. It is plausible that all of the events of the film could have taken place here. Growing up in this village connects me personally to the people and the places I visit along the way.

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the artifacts

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Artifacts including photographs, newspapers, books, and other objects were gathered from local people, the public library and the city auditorium. To fill in the blanks, photos of items were gathered online and digitally altered.

The found and digitally created objects were further edited, collated, and re-contextualized.

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For more unedited images, see Appendix B 85

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For more unedited images, see Appendix B 87

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For more unedited images, see Appendix B 89

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For more unedited images, see Appendix B 91

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For more unedited object, see Appendix B 93

Precedents

The Watermelon Woman (1996) Cher yl D unye and Z o e Leo n a r d

The Faye Richards Photo Archive Cher yl D unye and Z o e Leo n a r d , Ar t sp a ce Bo o ks, 1997

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Petra Andrejova-Molnár: Contribution and Collaboration Ka t a r i n a Bu r i n , 2015

A Tribute to Safiye Behar M i cha el Blu m e, Mi x ed -m ed i a i n st a l l a t i o n , 2 0 0 5

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Narr

ACT I 00:00:00

00:01:00

00:02:00

AC 00:03:00

00:04:00

00:05:00

00:06:00

00:07:00

Spalding Academy Photos and video

ORDINARY WORLD

CALL TO ADVENTURE

farmhouse

Setting: Bedroom of Farm House

Driving out to the house

Find a box

Shot of the old house from up the road

Shot of the closet Find trace of the Cloister Project

REFUSE the CALL CROSSING THE THRESHOLD Go home and look her up in the Alumni Book.

Learn she was a librarian in Spalding, but died in 1959.

MIDPOINT

TESTS ALLIES & ENEMIES

Setting: Library

Setting: City Auditorium

Setting: Online

Get a list of the books she’s checked out.

CCC drawing

Troop 757

Signed by John Anderson on the back signed by Bridget Kelly

John Anderson University of Minnesota graduate

Many of the titles are architecture related Find a drawing tucked away in the vault

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7th division omaha CCC

Setting: Grandparents’ House Interview with Edward CCC’s were around Planted trees check the caboose

Setting: Caboose Photo of Bridget and John Other CCC photos Bridget’s GOC book, pin, and lookout card

Se H G W lik B a Tr A

ative

CT II

ACT II 00:08:00

00:09:00

00:10:00

00:11:00

00:12:00

00:13:00

00:14:00

convent process drawings

cloister

APPROACHING THE INMOST CAVE

etting: Grandparents House Grace interview What the academy was ke Bridget was an artist and reader.

Try the library at the Academy

Setting: Academy Library Find the Soil Rehab Center

INMOST CAVE Neice’s House Family Photo Albums 8 mm footage See photos of the mother

SEIZING THE SWORD Setting: Kitty’s House Kitty remembers her They were friends, but Bridget didn’t want the traditional housewife lifestyle

FINAL PUSH

RETURN WITH THE ELIXER + Wrap up

Setting: Library

Setting: Online

Setting: Library

Returning every Monday and Thursday looking at the book Bridget checked out.

I find Sister Hildegard on facebook.

101 Cloister Floor Plans

Come across The formation of Sisters Letter from Hildegard

She is living in a retirement community of Dominican Sisters in St. Catherine, Kentucky.

Before her death, Bridget was interested in the group of Sisters working to educate women for work outside the home After Correspondence, she send me a box of Bridget’s Drawings (GOC Observation Tower and Fallout Dream Village)

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Realize they match the trace.

00:15:00

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Appendix

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APPENDIX A

early studies

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APPENDIX A

early studies

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APPENDIX A

early studies

The stories below were my first attempt at storytelling combining multiple media. The stories are sourced from interviews, the images from found photos of newspaper. The stories are true, but this exercise led me be interested in what could happen if a fictional element was added.

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the town, and newspaper clippings from the local

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APPENDIX A

early studies

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110 Street

W St. James Street

W Canal Street

Vineyard

N Linden Street

WPA Avenue

St. Joseph Street

Marguerite Street

Street

St. Joseph Street

Marguerite Street

E St. James Street

E Canal Street

Vineyard

N Pine Street

N Ash Street

N Cedar Street

N Elm Street

N Chestnut Street

N Walnut Street

Old HWY 101

Old HWY 101

111

W Creamery Street

W Sullivan Street

ad

ro

il

Ra ue

en

Av

Park Avenue

E Creamery Street

E Sullivan Street

il

Ra ro

ad

Av

en

ue

APPENDIX B

artifacts Alum Marie Schlaf

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APPENDIX B

artifacts Alum Marie Schlaf

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APPENDIX B

artifacts Alum Marie Schlaf

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APPENDIX B

artifacts Marie Schlaf Scrapbook

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APPENDIX B

artifacts Spalding Library Vault

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APPENDIX C.1

interview Grace Glesinger A G : O ka y, the fir s t quest i on i s, w her e w er e you b o rn ?

I w a s l i v i n g - We w e r e o f c o u r s e , i n o n a f a r m . An d n o

GG: I was bo rn in Spalding, Nebr as k a. Apr il t he 10 t h 1 9 3 4

h o s p i t a l . T h e c l o s e s t h o s p i t a l w a s G r a n d I s l a n d. I w a s si c k

on a f arm. I was bo rn on a f ar m .

a l l d a y l o n g . V e r y , v e r y s i c k . I r e m e m b e r I w a s h a d a pa i n i n m y s i d e . A n d I w a s v e r y s i c k a n d t h r e w u p a l o t. An d so

A G : A nd did the y hav e t he hospi t al ?

f i n a l l y , a t t h e e n d o f t h e d a y , m y m o t h e r a s k e d, w e di dn ’ t

GG: N o, we did no t ha v e a hos pit al. I was bor n. A l a d y h a d

h a v e a v e r y g o o d c a r . A n d s o s h e a s k e d h e r br o th e r , Pa t

like wh at she ca lled a m at er nit y hom e. She was n’t a n u r s e o r

M c M a n a m a n , w h o l i v e d i n S p a l d i n g , h e i s w o u ld be M a u r e e n

anythin g. She just too k car e of wom en and had bab i e s . B u t I

T h o m e ’ s g r a n d f a t h e r . H e w a s m y m o t h e r ’ s b r o th e r . An d h e

w as d e live red by a doct or . Ther e was a doct or in t o w n . A n d

t o o k m e m y m o t h e r a n d I t o t h e d o c t o r i n S p a l d i n g. An d

he d elivere d me I gu es s . And ok ay , y eah. And I don ’ t k n o w

t h e y s a i d , “O h , y o u g o t t o g o t o G r a n d I s l a n d . H e r a ppe n di x

how long my mo the r had t o s t ay at t his m at ur it y hom e . T h i s

i s j u s t a b o u t r e a d y t o b u r s t . ” A n d I w a s s e v e n ye a r s o l d.

lad y th at ra n it, she was n’t a nur s er y t hing, but s he j u s t t o o k

I r e m e m b e r t h a t . A n d s o w e w e n t t o G r a n d I s l an d. An d I

care of.

g u e s s t h e y t e l l m e , m a y b e I w a s k i n d o f l i k e R ya n . T h e y go t t h e r e j u s t a b o u t i n t i m e b e f o r e b u s t . B u t I a l s o r e m e m be r

A G :T hat’s inte r es ting. Yeah.

b u t t h e n m y m o t h e r h a d t o g o h o m e b e c a u s e s h e h a d o th e r

GG: I was bo rn with red hair . And I don’t k now how m u c h I

c h i l d r e n . A n d I r e m e m b e r c r y i n g f o r m y m o t h e r . So th a t’ s

w eig he d probably n ot t oo m uch.

a b o u t t h e f i r s t . T h a t ’ s p r e t t y m e m o r a b l e . T h a t ’ s se ve n ye a r s old. So I got along okay at that. got home

A G : A re y our na m ed af t er som ebody?

GG: I was na med afte r s om ebody . M y m ot her had a f a v o r i t e

A G : T h e n y o u d i d n ’ t h a v e t o w o rry a b o u t y o ur a ppe ndix .

sist er n ame d Gra ce . And s o s he nam ed m e af t er he r s i s t e r

G G : N o , I d i d n ’ t . B u t i t k i n d o f r u n s . I d o n ’ t k n ow . M y br o th e r

Grace. Also, my gre at gr andm ot her ’s nam e was G r a c e . A n d

D o n h a d h i s a p p e n d i x t a k e n o u t . A n d t h e n R y an . So I do n ’ t

then m y mo the r, midd le nam e was Ann. And m y m o t h e r ’ s

know if it runs in the family.

mot her wou ld be my gr andm ot her . Her nam e, her f i r s t n a m e w as A nn . So tha t’s wh er e I get G r ace Ann. And how i s c a l l e d

A G : Wh e n y o u w e re l i t t l e D i d y o u h a v e a n i c k na m e or

g ray sand for e ve r an d ev er . People s t ill call m e gr a y s a n d .

w h e n y o u w e re i n h i g h s c h o o l o r a n y t h i n g ?

G G : I h a d a n i c k n a m e . I t h i n k i t ’ s p r o b a b l y b e fo r e I w e n t to

A G : A nd so the n what i s t he ear l i est m em or y you h a v e ?

h i g h s c h o o l . “R e d ” l i k e t h e c o l o r r e d . I h a d . I d o n ’ t th i n k i t

GG: One memo ry I h av e. I don’t k now if it was m y e a r l i e s t ,

w a s b r i g h t r e d h a i r . B u t i t w a s r e d . I d i d n ’ t l i k e th a t n a m e a t

I w as se ve n yea rs o ld. And I had an at t ack append i c i t i s .

a l l . T h e y c a l l e d m e “R e d ”. I n h i g h s c h o o l , I d o n ’ t th i n k I h a d

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much of a n ickna me. O h, t hat ’s pr obably good, but s o m e

A G : L i k e R a l p h i e ’s l i t t l e b ro t h e r?

of my olde r co usins They didn’t liv e ar ound her e t h a t w o u l d

G G : I w a s j u s t g o i n g t o s a y I t h i n k t h a t m i g h t b e e xa c tl y. Pu t

come bac k fro m the big cit ies lik e Det r oit . They ’d a l w a y s

b i g o v e r s h o e s o n u s . A n d t h a t ’ s i n t h e w i n t e r t i m e . T h a t’ s

call me re d.

how he would come up to us our farm and pick us up and drive us to school.

A G : I didn’t k now yo u had cousi ns i n t he bi g ci t ie s .

GG: Y e s, I do h ave c ous ins . They ’r e pr obably abou t . I d o n ’ t

A G : O t h e r d a y s w o u l d y o u h a v e t o w a l k t h e m whe n it

have t oo man y le ft. Ye ah, t hat ’s on m y m ot her ’s s id e . O h ,

was?

interestin g. Yea h.

G G : Y o u k n o w , i t p r o b a b l y w a s a b o u t a m i l e a n d a h a l f. I t h i n k m y d a d h a d a c a r . B u t y o u k n o w , I s u p p o se w e m i gh t

A G : S o I know wher e you gr ew up. But do you r e me mb e r

h a v e h a d t o w a l k . We ’ v e w a l k e d a l o t . T h a t w a s th e o n l y w a y

yo u r hous e a s a chil d? Do you r em em ber ? Di d yo u h a v e

we could get there. Yeah.

yo u r own be dr oom o r anyt hi ng?

GG: W e lived, I ca n’t r em em ber t he f ir s t place but I k n o w .

A G : S o h o w d i d y o u r f a mi l y s p e n d t i me t o g e t he r whe n

I remember. W h en yo u k now, I was t her e when I wa s s e v e n

y o u w e re y o u n g ?

years o ld, probably th er e. W hen I was about t hr ee o r f o u r ,

G G : N o t e l e v i s i o n . Y o u k n o w , I t h i n k I h a d d o l l s. I l o ve d to

w e move d to an oth er hous e. I didn’t hav e a bedr oo m . I

p l a y w i t h d o l l s , a n d p a p e r d o l l s . I l o v e p a p e r do l l s. An d th a t

my siste r is th ree ye ar s older t han m e. And s o we s h a r e d

w a s p r o b a b l y w h a t I d o n e t h e m o s t . M y m o t h e r w a s si c k a n

a b ed ro om. An d o f co ur s e, we had no wat er in t he h o u s e .

a w f u l l o t . A n d m y o l d e r s i s t e r - s h e ’ s t h r e e y e a r s o l de r th a n

N o b athro om. An d yet, we had a gr eat big pot belly s t o v e ,

m e . S h e k i n d o f h a d t o t a k e c a r e o f t h e h o u s e , th e c o o ki n g

in the middle o f ou r lik e, what y ou call t he uh liv ing r o o m .

a n d k i n d o f t a k e n c a r e o f m e . I w o u l d h a v e b e en th r e e ye a r s

A nd th a t’s wh ere we g et dr es s ed in t he m or ning wh e n i t

y o u n g e r t h a n m y s i s t e r m y b r o t h e r D o n i s t w o ye a r s yo u n ge r

w as cold. And the way we got t o s chool, m y uncle w h o l i v e d

t h a n m e . S h e j u s t g r e w u p f a s t . S h e w a s t h r e e ye a r s o l de r

ab out two mile s fro m us on r eal cold day s , he had s o m e

t h a n m e . A n d s h e s h e h a d t o d o m o s t o f t h e w or k.

child re n goin g to the s am e s chools , I went t o dis t r i c t 3 8 .

A nd he wo uld ha ve a t eam of hor s es in a wagon. An d f i l l t h e

A G : O k a y, s o w h e n y o u w e n t t o s c h o o l , d i d you ha v e a

b ot t om of it with stra w. And t hen he would dr iv e he w o u l d

f a v o ri t e s u b j e c t o r a f a v o ri t e t e a c h e r?

p ut his kids in the re w it h blank et s . And t hen he wou l d d r i v e

G G : We l l , w h e n I w e n t t o c o u n t r y s c h o o l , I l o v ed c o u n tr y

up t o he r Isla nd, whic h is about a m ile long and t he n p i c k

s c h o o l . Y o u k n o w y o u g e t 1 0 0 a n d s p e l l i n g e v e r y da y. N o w I

up me an d probably m y br ot her and s is t er . I don’t t h i n k m y

c a n ’ t s p e l l a t a l l . I d o n ’ t k n o w i f I h a d a f a v o r i te te a c h e r . I I

b rot her s. Th ey were m ay be I don’t k now f or s ur e. A n d h e

d i d l i k e D e n i s e S p e l i c ’ s a u n t - I l i k e d h e r L o t . Sh e ta u gh t m e

w ould ta ke us to sch ool in t he wagon.

i n s e v e n t h g r a d e , s i x t h , s e v e n t h a n d e i g h t h g r a de c o u n tr y school. I liked her a lot.

A G : Was it pr e tty c ol d?

GG: I su ppose it wa s but I im agine our par ent s put a l o t o f

A G : S h e ’s p ro b a b l y p re t t y y o u n g ?

clot hes on us.

G G : I w o n d e r y e t m a y b e i t w a s h e r f i r s t - y e a r o u t o f th e A c a d e m y . S h e g r a d u a t e d f r o m t h e A c a d e m y . Sh e ’ s

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d eceased no w. I like d her a lot . I can’t r eally s ay I h a d a n y

o p t i o n . N o . T h a t w a s p r o b a b l y o n e t h i n g . S o u n l e ss I w a s

teachers tha t I didn’t lik e, becaus e s chool was s o e a s y . S o

d e s p e r a t e l y r e a l l y s i c k . I ’ v e n e v e r m i s s e d m a ss. M u c h . An d

easy.

o f c o u r s e , t h e r e w a s w h a t t h e y c a l l a c a t e c h i s m c l a ss. It’ s I t h i n k i t ’ s t h e y c a l l i t t h e C C D ? Y e a h . E v e r y S u n da y m o r n i n g

A G : You’r e jus t sm a r t !

a f t e r m a s s , w e ’ d g o t o t h a t . A n d t h a t w a s p r o ba bl y o n e o f

GG: W ell I don ’t I do n’t k now. I don’t t hink s o. I t hin k

t h e t h i n g s t h e y t a u g h t m e . I l o v e d t h e m a l o t . Th e y’ r e ve r y,

everybody wa s smart. School was f un. Reces s is r u n a r o u n d ,

v e r y g o o d t o m e . T h e y t a u g h t u s a l o t o f g o o d th i n gs.

run aroun d a nd ha ve a dinner pail. M y m ot her woul d p a c k our lunc h a nd

A G : D i d y o u e v e r g e t i n t o t ro u b l e ?

G G : I d o n ’ t t h i n k I e v e r g o t i n a n y t r o u b l e . We l l , n o , n o th i n g

A G : Wha t would s he pack?

in grade school course. Nothing there. High school… We

GG: U m , I don ’t kn ow if we had t he t her m os bot t les b a c k

h a d d o n e I n e v e r h a d t o s t a y i n a f t e r s c h o o l o r a n yth i n g l i ke

then. I th ink sh e trie d t o giv e us s om e k ind of a s an d w i c h .

that. I wasn’t a very good student in high school. I could not

I d on’t kn ow if it wa s peanut but t er and jelly . I ’m no t c r a z y

g e t L a t i n . O h , t h a t ’ s h a r d . O h , i t w a s h a r d . I d on ’ t kn o w i f

ab out pe an ut butte r and jelly and in t his day , s o I d o n ’ t I

they ever teach that now.

d on’t I su ppose she would m ay be giv e us an apple . Y o u know ? I don ’t kn ow. M y f olk s didn’t hav e m uch m on e y . S o n o

A G : I t o o k a b o u t a q u a rt e r o f L a t i n a n d I c o uldn’t ge t pa s t

cand y. No po tato ch ips . Not hing lik e t hat . But we g o t b y I

t h e c o l o rs .

d on’t ever re member being hungr y f or y ou. Yeah.

G G : I j u s t c o u l d n o t g e t i t a n d s o t h e n u n w a s ki n d o f h a r d o n m e . I d i d n ’ t g e t a n y g o o d g r a d e s p r o b a b l y C + ’ s, a B

A G : Who was your c l osest si bl i ng?

o n c e i n a w h i l e . I d o n ’ t k n o w i f I e v e r g o t a n d A. M a ybe i n

GG: Oh, a ctu ally my sis t er . Def init ely . Thr ee y ear s o l d e r .

m u s i c . I c a n ’ t s i n g . B u t I n e v e r g o t i n t r o u b l e i n sc h o o l . W e l l ,

S he d o es everythin g i n heav en f or m e r ight now. I p r a y t o

I d o n ’ t k n o w . I t i s n ’ t l i k e t o d a y , y o u k n o w , w e d i dn ’ t h a ve ..

her all the time. She died in 1997. She had cancer o f t h e

We l l , I ’ d n e v e r s m o k e . B u t y o u k n o w , k i d s i n h i gh sc h o o l

p ancrea s. An d

s m o k e . . T h e b o y s p r o b a b l y d r a n k , y o u k n o w ? L i ke th e y do n o w s n e a k a w a y a n d t r y t o g e t s o m e t h i n g t o d ri n k be fo r e y o u ’ r e 2 1 . B u t I d i d n ’ t d o a n y t h i n g t o g e t i n t o tr o u bl e .

A G : I s that what Ale x Tr ebek had t oo?

GG: It’s Ale x T rebek had t oo. Yes . The doct or s aid s h e could o nly live for th ree m ont hs . She liv ed f or t hr ee m o n t h s .

A G : D i d y o u j u s t g e t t o c o me t o t o w n o n S u n da y ? Or did

S o I really miss he r. Yeah, t hat was 1997

y o u g e t t o c o me t o t o w n o n t h e w e e k e n d s a t a ll or ?

G G : N o t v e r y o f t e n . M y u n c l e t h a t l i v e d w i t h u s- h e n e ve r

A G : Wha t is the m ost i m por t ant l esson your par e n t s

m a r r i e d , s o h e h a d m o r e m o n e y . H e d i d n ’ t h a ve a n y

tau g h t you?

c h i l d r e n . A n d h e w a s m y d a d ’ s b r o t h e r . A n d h e w o u l d be

GG: U m , you kn ow, th er e was n’t s uch a t hing is y ou d o n ’ t

good to us. And he’d like, take us to a movie. We had a

have t o go to ch urc h ev er y Sunday . Becaus e we ne v e r

m o v i e t h e a t e r , l i k e , c o s t a b o u t 2 5 c e n t s . A n d we l o ve d i t.

had mass o n Satu rda y night . And, y ou k now, we jus t k n e w

A n d h e w o u l d m a y b e t a k e u s t h e r e o n S a t u r d a y n i gh t. Eve r y

w hen Su nday co me w e go t o M as s . Ther e was no o p t i o n . N o

o n c e i n a w h i l e . H e w a s g o o d t o u s . Y e a h . T h at’ s a bo u t a l l

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like, yeah .

a f t e r w e t a u g h t s c h o o l f o r a y e a r a n d w e n t t o Om a h a ge t a j o b a t M u t u a l l i k e e v e r y b o d y d i d . We g o t a n a pa r tm e n t

A G : Did you go to Conf essi on ever y ot her Sat ur d a y

t o g e t h e r , l i v e d t o g e t h e r , g o t m a r r i e d t w o w e e k s a pa r t.

n ig h t?

We s a i d w e a g r e e d t h a t I w a s l i v i n g i n O m a h a w o r ki n g a t

GG: I wen t to c on fess ion a lot . But I don’t t hink we a l l d i d .

m u t u a l . We s a i d , “G r a c e a n d P e g g y - l e t ’ s n o t be i n e a c h

We thou gh t we suppo s ed t o go ev er y t wo. O nce a m o n t h .

o t h e r ’ s w e d d i n g b e c a u s e l e t ’ s s a v e o u r m o n e y fo r o u r o w n

Okay. Ye ah . So we re ally lov ed t hat . O h, we begge d h i m t o

w e d d i n g . ” O t h e r w i s e w e w o u l d h a v e b e e n b r i d e sm a i ds i n

take us to a movie. Oh, and he was r eally nice t o u s .

e a c h o t h e r ’ s w e d d i n g . A n d K i t t y , K i t t y C a r l i n i s a n o th e r o n e o f m y v e r y b e s t f r i e n d s . S h e y o u ’ r e y o u n g e r , so sh e

A G : L et’s s ee . Whe n di d you l ear n t o dr i ve?

d i d n ’ t r e a l l y c o m e i n w i t h a l l o f u s u n t i l s h e w a s i n th e n i n th

GG: W ell, I suppo se it would be af t er 16 y ear s old. M y

g r a d e . We w e r e i n t h e 1 0 t h . S h e ’ s v e r y c l o s e fr i e n ds. T h a t’ s

mot her sh owe d me ho w t o dr iv e. Yeah. M y br ot her D o n -

i t ? Y e a h , t h a t ’ s p r o b a b l y I w o u l d c o m e o n t o he r pl a c e a l o t.

H e’s t wo ye ars yo un ger t han m e. And he’s , he was k i n d o f like, M a tt, he was a ver y good dr iv er … we liv ed on a f a r m .

A G : Wh e n y o u w e n t t o t h e A c a d e my, w h a t wa s t ha t ?

A nd he h elped my dad all t he t im e. And s o when I w a s o l d

L i k e ? Wa s t h a t k i n d o f a c u l t u re s h o c k f ro m c ount r y

enoug h to drive , he m os t ly dr ov e. You k now, t o t his d a y , I

school?

d o not like to drive al l t hat well. But m y m ot her t aug h t m e .

G G : Y e s , i t w a s . T h e v e r y b e s t p a r t o f i t i s t h a t m o st o f th e

I d on’t thin k I e ve r ha d any accident s . But I was in h i g h

k i d s c a m e f r o m t h e c o u n t r y s c h o o l . S o t h a t t h e r e w a sn ’ t j u st

school wo uld ha ve be en m or e t han 16. I would occ a s i o n a l l y

a w h o l e l o t o f k i d s t h a t l i v e d i n S p a l d i n g t h a t w e n t to th e

g et t o drive o ur c ar in t o Spalding on a Sunday af t e r n o o n .

A c a d e m y a t t h a t t i m e . S o i t w a s v e r y h a r d . Y es. Eve r yth i n g

Where I wo uld mee t m y f r iends .

w a s v e r y h a r d . C o m p a r e d t o c o u n t r y s c h o o l , bu t l i ke d i t, l o v e i t . L o v e t h e s c h o o l a n d m a d e i t . G r a d u a t ed.

A G : Who was your best f r i end gr ow i ng up?

GG: Oh, my be st frie nd. Her nam e was Peggy Pier . H e r

A G : D i d y o u h a v e t o d re s s a n y p a rt i c u l a r w a y ?

name is Peggy Galvin now. W e hav e been f r iends f o r 6 0 …

S he still a live . Sh e lives in O m aha. W e m et when w e w e r e

G G : We c o u l d n o t w e a r s l a c k s . H a d t o w e a r a ski r t, o r ski r t

g oing to ca tec hism cl as s es CCD clas s es , and s he l i v e d i n

o r d r e s s . O n t h e r e a l c o l d d a y s . We w o u l d w ea r sl a c ks

the coun try. An d I sup pos e I was about 13 m ay be 1 3 . I ’ m

under our dress. Take them off when we got there.

86. That’s ho w man y y ear s t hat ’s . . . That ’s how long w e ’ v e

My sister was three years older. And I wore a lot of her

b een f r ie nds. W e ’ve been v er y good f r iends . W e s t i l l s e n d

c l o t h e s w h e n s h e w a s n ’ t w e a r i n g t h e m . We ’ r e a bo u t th e

each oth er birthday car ds we s t ill s he called m e up . A

same size.

coup le of we eks a go when s he hear d I had t he v ir u s . A n d w e’re rea lly goo d frie nds . W e t aught s chool. She t a u g h t

A G : T h a t ’s c o n v e n i e n t .

country sch oo l afte r s he gr aduat ed. I t aught count r y s c h o o l .

We’re in the sa me c las s , s am e age. I ’m t wo week s o l d e r . I ’ m

GG: That was very good.

b orn on April the 10 th and s he’s bor n on Apr il 24t h I t h i n k or someth ing like tha t . W e got m ar r ied. W e went t o O m a h a

AG: Double the closet.

125

S p a l d i n g . We l l , i t w o r k e d o u t . I r e a l l y d i d n ’ t w an t to m o ve . I A G : L et’s s ee . Wha t di d you w ant t o be w hen you g re w

k i n d a l i k e i t . I k i n d o f l i k e d i t . I d r o v e a r o u n d th e c i ty m yse l f.

up?

Y e s . I n a 5 1 C h e v y . I t ’ s k i n d o f s c a r y , b u t I w a sn ’ t sc a r e d.

I p r o b a b l y w o u l d h a v e b e e n s c a r e d n o w . B u t so th a t w a s

GG: Y o u kno w, I tau ght s chool count r y s chool f or o n e y e a r .

p r o b a b l y o n e o f t h e m a i n r e a s o n s h e j u s t d i d n ’ t th i n k h e

That wasn’t wh at I wa nt ed t o be. No, I didn’t want to b e a

d i d n ’ t w a n t M i k e t o g r o w u p i n O m a h a . Y e a h , th a t’ s ki n d o f

teacher. I don ’t kn ow. I enjoy ed wor k ing at M ut ual o f O m a h a

s c a r y . A n d m y f a m i l y l i v e d i n S p a l d i n g . M y m o th e r a n d da d

and living with ro omm at es . At f ir s t I liv ed wit h Pegg y t h a t ’ s

a n d h i s f a m i l y l i v e d i n S p a l d i n g . S o w e h a d a lo t o f r e a so n s.

my b es t frien d. An d th en I m ov ed int o an apar t m en t w i t h

Yeah.

some girls tha t I ha d m et . And t he f our of us gir ls li v e d tog ether. W e rea lly h ad a good t im e. O h boy , jus t I d o n ’ t

A G : We re y o u d i d y o u g e t t o p l a y a n y s p o rt s whe n y ou

know . I just love my job t hat m ut ual.

w e re g ro w i n g u p ?

G G : N o . I t h i n k w h e n I w a s a s e n i o r , I ’ m n o t s ur e . T h e y

A G : A nd you we r e c ar d oper at or ?

s t a r t e d g i r l s . V o l l e y b a l l , I b e l i e v e . A n d I d i d n ot go o u t. N o t

GG: W e we re c alle d a Key s t one oper at or . I t hink t h e n e x t

t o o m a n y d i d . T h e y m i g h t h a v e b e e n o n e o r t w o gi r l s th a t

step p r obably wa s a com put er . But t hat was back l i k e i n

l i v e d i n t h e t o w n o f S p a l d i n g t h a t c o u l d g o t o p r a c ti c e . Bu t

1954. I wou ld ju st h av e a lit t le m achine t hat I would g i v e m e

we didn’t.

a b unch of stuff to pu nch out on t his m achine. I lov e m y j o b .

I loved it. T he n I got m ar r ied. And Ed was wor k ing i n O m a h a

A G : Yo u w e re a c h e e rl e a d e r?

at t he time too . And then a y ear lat er we had M ik e t h e y h e l d

G G : R i g h t . I w a s a c h e e r l e a d e r . 1 2 t h g r a d e . I w a s fo o tba l l

my job o pe n fo r me. T hey gav e m e t hr ee m ont hs m a t e r n i t y

c h e e r l e a d e r . Y e a h , t h e y g o t v o t e d o n . T h e y w ou l d. Ye a h .

leave a nd sa id you ca n com e back and hav e y our j o b b a c k .

T h e w h o l e s c h o o l I g u e s s . I d o n ’ t k n o w . T h e y vo te d o n th r e e .

A f t er th ree mon ths, I couldn’t leav e lit t le baby M ik e . I j u s t

M a y b e f o u r f o u r g i r l s f r o m t h e s e n i o r c l a s s f o otba l l a n d fo u r

could n ’t lea ve him.

g i r l s f o r b a s k e t b a l l - t h e b o y s h a d b a s k e t b a l l . I w a s fo o tba l l .

S o I really ne eded my job. But I jus t couldn’t leav e.

A G : S o d i d y o u g e t t o g o e v e ry g a me ?

A G : S o wha t m ade y ou guys deci de t o m ove back ?

G G : N o . We d i d n ’ t h a v e a n y b u s e s f o r o u t o f t o w n ga m e s.I

GG: E d was alwa ys a f ar m er , a f ar m er at hear t . And i t ’ s o n e

w e n t t o a l l t h e S p a l d i n g f o o t b a l l g a m e s . S o w e h a d w i th o u r

of the thin gs I reme mber he s aid is I don’t want t o r a i s e M i k e

o u t f i t w a s a w h i t e s w e a t e r w i t h “S A ” o n i t . A w hi te c o r du r o y

in Oma ha . He said tha t , y ou k now, and t her e was a l w a y s

skirt.

this p o ssibility tha t he could m ov e back t o Spalding o n t h e

We f o u n d s o m e g r e e n s h o e s . We w o r e w h i t e s o c ks a n d w h i te

farm an d h elp farm w it h his dad and his br ot her . Th e r e w a s ,

s t o c k i n g a n d c a p . I h a v e p i c t u r e s o f t h a t . S o so m e da y I’ l l

you kn ow, a nd the n th er e was , He got s om e m oney f r o m t h e

s h o w t h e m t o y o u . T h a t ’ s p r e t t y g o o d . O f c o u r s e . W e l o ve d

g overn men t to go to s om e k ind of s chooling, I f or g e t t h e

a l l t h e b o y s . B u t I w a s o n l y a c h e e r l e a d e r f o r on e ye a r . It

name, h is sch oo ling, got a lit t le m oney ev er y m ont h i f h e

w a s j u s t y o u c o u l d o n l y b e o n e j u s t w h e n y o u we r e se n i o r .

at t end ed cla sses do wn her e in Spalding. Som ebody ’ s g o t

Yeah, it was different. That’s why I would I think it would

a lit t le mon ey. And he jus t alway s want ed t o m ov e b a c k t o

have really liked to play volleyball.

126

mother and housewife.

A G : Did you play wit h your br ot her s pl ayi ng spo rt s g ro w i ng up a t all?

A G : Yo u d i d v e ry w e l l .

GG: N ot re ally. My brot her s ar e all big, big s por t f a n s . Y e a h .

N o,

A G : I was r ea ding a n ol d new spaper. They have e v e ry n ew spa pe r down in t he l i br ar y. Ther e w as one an d i t w a s “Mark Mc Car thy injur es hand basebal l season no t l o o k i n g b ri g h t.”

GG: Oh, yes. Ye s. He got hur t r eally bad. And he w a s t h e b aseb all guy. He’s ve r y , v er y good. Ver y good. M y b r o t h e r D on was go od too . Th ey play ed bas eball, s of t ball, y e a r s and ye ars an d yea rs. Yeah, I cam e f r om a f am ily of t h r e e b rot her s an d my da d. They t alk ed s por t s . All t he t im e . I loved it.

A G : T hat’s funny. No t m uch has changed.

GG: Tha t’s th at’s kin d of t he way m y s on’s ar e now … k i n d o f how Christmas go es.

A G : Tell m e about yo ur f i r st dat e, w as i t w i t h G r a n d p a ?

GG: W ell, h e wa sn ’t m y f ir s t boy f r iend. M y f ir s t boy f r i e n d , H e’s his last na me wa s Snodgr as s . O k ay , he is dec e a s e d now . He wa s a ye ar a head of m e in s chool. He was , y e a h .

My first date was- ever y y ear , near t he beginning o f t h e school yea r, like in Sept em ber , O ct ober , t he f r es hm a n c l a s s w ould put o n a da nc e f or t he s enior s . I t hink it was . A n d s o I w as a freshma n. An d he was a s ophom or e. And s o h e a s k e d my siste r if he co uld t ak e m e hom e f r om t he dance . T h a t w a s fine. A nd so I like d h im a lot . And we pr obably wen t t o g e t h e r for ab ou t two o r thre e y ear s . Unt il I s aid, I didn’t lik e h i m .

A nd so the n I gue ss I pr obably m et Ed and t hat wa s k i n d o f it . From abou t se nio r y ear t ill now. Sev en y ear s lat e r , m a y b e w e g ot marrie d. He went t o t he s er v ice and W ell, I t h i n k that’s all I h ave. T ha t’s all y ou hav e. That ’s k ind of b o r i n g .

I d id n’t do to o mu ch . I jus t k ind of been a m ot her . W e l l , a

127

APPENDIX C.2

interview Ed Glesinger A G : We ’ll ge t sta r ted . O kay, f i r st quest i on. W her e w e re

A n d t h e r e w a s a l o t o f s a n d t h e r e . I t w a s i n t h e l a te 4 0 s. I

yo u b or n?

m e a n , t h e e a r l y , e a r l y 4 0 s , l a t e 3 0 s a n d e a r l y 4 0 s. An d I j u st

E G: I wa s born in Spa lding, Nebr as k a on t he 18t h o f M a y o f

r e m e m b e r p l a y i n g o u t i n t h e s a n d w i t h m y l i t t l e h o m e m a de

1933. In a ho use o n th e s out h edge of t own t hat wa s t o h e l p

tractor.

b irt h moth ers.

A G : H o w d i d y o u ma k e a t ra c t o r?

A G : Kinda like gr a nd m a. No doct or s.

E G : O h , I s u p p o s e . I s u p p o s e m y b r o t h e r m a d e th a t. H e

E G: N o do cto rs

could make anything.

A G : midwife

A G : D i d y o u h a v e a n i c k n a me ?

E G: midwife

E G : Y e s , I d i d . I h a d a l o t o f n i c k n a m e s . T h e o n e th a t stu c k t h e m o s t w a s E g g b e r t . A n d t h a t w a s a f t e r t h e so n g Eggbe r t

A G : Now, I’ve talk ed t o som e ot her peopl e, and w a s t h a t

T h e E a s t e r E g g t h a t b e c a m e p o p u l a r a b o u t i n 1 9 5 0 . An d

Gen e Asc he ’s house ?

i t g o t s t u c k t o m e p r e t t y , p r e t t y b a d . T h a t ’ s h o w th i n gs go

E G: It might h ave bee n ov er nex t t o Ber nar d Fair ba n k s .

here. Hmm.

Mig ht ha ve be en Ash ley Kais er ’s hous e.

AG: So what was your house like as a child?

A G : A nd wer e you nam ed af t er a f am i l y m em ber ? O r d o e s

E G : We l l , w e I t w a s a f a i r l y b i g h o u s e . I t h a d t w o be dr o o m s

yo u r na m e hav e a m eani ng?

d o w n s t a i r s a n d t w o b e d r o o m s u p s t a i r s . B u t w e a l w a ys h a d

E G: Oh , I ha ve an un cle Ed. And I hav e a gr eat unc l e E d

a h i r e d m a n o r a n u n c l e t h a t s t a y e d w i t h u s . M y da d w a s a

Gilroy an d my gre at u ncle and a r egular Uncle t o m e . A n d

f a i r l y g o o d - s i z e d f a r m e r f o r t h e t i m e . A n d h e a l w a ys h a d to

that’s, I imagine tha t I ’m nam ed af t er

h a v e a h i r e d m a n . A n d t h e n w e a l w a y s h a d a gr a n dpa o r g r a n d m a t h a t w a s n o t v e r y w e l l . A n d t h e y l i v e d w i th u s to o .

A G : the r e’s be en a lo t of peopl e nam ed af t er you .

A n d w e a l s o h a d t h e s c h o o l t e a c h e r s t a y e d w i t h u s a l l th e

E G: Y ea h, quite a fe w. Yeah, m or e t han I ev er t hou g h t

t i m e . We r e a l l y h a d a f u l l h o u s e a l l t h e t i m e . Y e a h .

there’d be th ere ’s qui t e a f ew.

A G : T h a t ’s q u i t e t h e d y n a mi c . S o h o w w o u l d y our f a m ily A G : Wha t is the e arl i est m em or y?

s p e n d t i me t o g e t h e r w h e n y o u w e re g ro w i n g up?

E G: My ea rliest memo r y is play ing out in t he hous e a n d t h e

E G : We l l , w e a l w a y s k i n d o f h a d a p r e t t y b i g C h r i stm a s a n d

sand . W e live d in the s andhills nine m iles nor t h of S p a l d i n g .

a p r e t t y b i g T h a n k s g i v i n g . B u t o t h e r w i s e , w e al m o st h a d to

128

eat in sh ifts. W e ha d s o m any people. So we wer e n o t r e a l l y close. Bu t we we ren ’t not f ar . I was m y dad’s f av or i t e . S o

A G : Yo u d i d n ’ t g o t o k i n d e rg a rt e n

he alw ays to ok ca re o f m e. And M om us ed t o car e K i t t y ,

E G : I d i d n ’ t g o t o k i n d e r g a r t e n . B u t I n e v e r m i s se d a gr a de .

thoug h, a nd the oth er k ids k ind of t ook car e of t hem s e l v e s .

I n e v e r m i s s e d a d a y o f s c h o o l t i l l I w a s i n f i f t h gr a de . An d I

B ut the din ne r table in t he ev ening and t he s upper t a b l e w a s

walked every day. I never missed a day.

there m ust ha ve be en eight or 10 t her e ev er y night . I d o n ’ t know ho w my mo the r could do it . But m ay be we just a t e f r i e d

A G : Wh a t h a p p e n e d i n f i f t h g ra d e t h a t y o u ha d t o m is s ?

eg g s so metime s. An d we r ais ed our own pot at oes a n d o u r

E G : I g o t t h e m e a s l e s . We h a d a b l a c k p l a g u e o f m e a sl e s

own t omato es. And we r ais ed our own chick ens . So t h a t ’ s

c o m e a r o u n d . A n d I g o t t h e m e a s l e s a n d t h e y w o u l dn ’ t l e t

p rob ably wh at we ate . W e r ais ed our own beef and o u r o w n

me go.

p ork. So we n ever we nt hungr y . O t her people wer e p o o r b u t mayb e we were . Can dy was not v er y m uch of an it e m . T h e

A G : D i d y o u h a v e a f a v o ri t e s u b j e c t o r a f a v or it e t e a c he r

man at th e groc ery stor e is old m an by t he nam e of C o y n e ,

in school?

and abo ut o nc e a mon t h he had put a lit t le s ack of c a n d y i n

E G : N o , w e h a d a p r e t t y l a r g e s c h o o l w e o n e ye a r w e h a d 2 8

our g roc erie s fre e o f char ge. So we will look f or war d t o t h a t .

k i d s i n s c h o o l . A n d t h a t ’ s a p r e t t y b i g c o u n t r y sc h o o l . An d

Y eah. m ight be ju st a couple of jelly beans or s om et h i n g . B u t

t h e y d i d n ’ t h a v e t i m e t o h a v e a f a v o r i t e t o o m u c h . I do n ’ t

it was so meth ing Ye ah, y eah. G ood.

k n o w i f I h a d a f a v o r i t e o r n o t . I h a d m y f i r s t t hr e e ye a r s w i th o n e t e a c h e r b y t h e n a m e o f D e l l a Wo l f e . A n d t h e n i t w a s

A G : S o whe r e did y ou go t o school ?

e v e r y y e a r I h a d a d i f f e r e n t t e a c h e r . S o I w a s I w a s a fa i r l y

E G: Well, th e sch oo l t he s chool is O nly a quar t er of a m i l e

good student in grade school.

d own the roa d fro m our place. And I can r em em ber s o m e o f the early th ings. W h en I was a lit t le k id I ’d be out in t h e y a r d

A G : A n d t h e n d i d t h a t d i d t h a t c h a n g e w h e n y ou we nt t o

p laying. I got h ere the k ids play him at r eces s dow n a t t h e

t h e a c a d e my ?

school. An d I’d take o f f and I ’d head f or t he s chool h o u s e .

E G : We l l , I w e n t t o t h e A c a d e m y , I h a d t o h a v e qu i te a r u de

A nd I’d get a bo ut h alfway t her e. And by t he t im e I g o t t h e r e ,

a w a k e n i n g . I c o u l d n o t g e t h a r d l y e v e r y t h i n g wa s so h a r d.

recess ed wou ld be o v er , t ur n ar ound and walk back . B u t i t

Y o u h a d t o s t u d y a n d I w a s n o t a s t u d i e r o r I co u l d ge t

w asn’t very far. Bu t for t hr ee or f our y ear old, it wa s l o n g

b y a n d c o m e t o s c h o o l w i t h o u t s t u d y i n g . A n d w h e n I go t

w ays. An d th e san d w as deep Right in t he m iddle o f t h e

to town I didn’t know how to study. And so I had a lot of

road , so metime s peo ple jus t get s t uck in t he s am e r e g u l a r

trouble in town school.

road .

A G : Wh o i s y o u r c l o s e s t s i b l i n g ?

A G : T he r oad gr a de r w asn’ t goi ng by?

E G : O h , I s u p p o s e m y s i s t e r , K i t t y w a s m y c l o se st. W e w e r e

E G: There was no roa d gr ader . And s o t hat was dis t r i c t 2 4 .

t h r e e y e a r s a p a r t i n s c h o o l . S o I h a d t o t a k e h e r w h e n e ve r

Okay, I wen t the re fo r eight y ear s ,

I went someplace. And my brother Bill. He was he was o u t g o i n g . A n d h e w a s e v e n u p a n d g o n e b e f o r e I c a n e ve n

A G : 8 y ea r s - until e i ght h gr ade?

think about going. So we were fairly close, but not really

E G: all thro ugh th e e ight h gr ade.

close. Yeah.

129

I p l a y e d b a s k e t b a l l f o u r y e a r s i n h i g h s c h o o l , bu t I w a sn ’ t A G : Wha t’s the m ost i m por t ant l esson t hat your p a re n t s

v e r y g o o d o r v e r y b i g . I w a s v e r y s m a l l . I w a s a bo u t fi ve

tau g h t you?

foot five and weighed about 120 pounds as a as a junior

E G: Ma ybe th e idea that we s houldn’t m is s m as s an d w e

a n d s o m e t i m e s a s a s e n i o r . Y e a h , w h e n I w e n t i n th e a r m y I

never, we n ever misse d m as s . All t he t im e on m y w h o l e l i f e .

w e i g h e d 1 2 8 p o u n d s , s o I w a s n ’ t v e r y b i g . B u t I w a s w i r e y. I

We alwa ys wen t to ma s s and we alway s dr es s ed up . N i c e .

b o x e d a l i t t l e b i t . o n l y h a d o n e o r t w o b o u t s b ut I w o n th e m

Y es, I wo re a su it to m as s up unt il eit her t he s ev ent h o r

both.

eig ht h o r nin th grade and a t ie. I had a lit t le s uit or w h i t e shirt. Little white sh irt . So we alway s dr es s ed up wh e n w e

A G : Yo u g e t b l o o d i e d u p a t a l l ?

w ent t o mass. An d we went t o conf es s ion at leas t o n c e a

E G : N o , I n e v e r g o t h i t . Y e s I d i d , I g o t h i t . I d i dn ’ t kn o w I

month.

g o t h i t . B u t t h e n e x t d a y I h a v e a s o r e j a w . Wh a t I w a n t by T K O I t w a s d o w n a t t h e a u d i t o r i u m i n S p a l d i n g. A gu y pu t

A G : T hat’s ex ac tly what gr andm a sai d. M aybe yo u w e re

a guy put it on for exhibition and sold tickets, and he had

p eeki ng. Le t’s s ee . Di d you have a f avor i t e t oy a s a

a r i n g i n t h e a n n o u n c e r a n d e v e r y t h i n g . A n d i t w a s th e l a st

ch i l d ?

t i m e I w o u l d e v e r d o t h a t a g a i n . I w a s s o s c a r e d to go o u t

E G: I wa s a lways a n a ir plane k id or a t r act or . I hav e a n

in front of those people. It was two weeks before I went in

airp lan e my gre at a un t Lena Schr iner m ade t hr ee a i r p l a n e s .

t h e a r m y . A n d I t h o u g h t I w a s p r e t t y s m a r t . B u t i t c a m e ti m e

A nd sh e gave o ne to m e and one t o m y cous in J er o m e a n d

t h e y g o u n d e r t h e r i n g . I w a s s c a r e d t o d e a t h . I w e n t w i l d.

one t o my c ou sin Bob by J oe. And t hat was pr obabl y m y

I j u s t s t a r t e d b e a t i n g o n t h e g u y a n d t h e y h a d to sto p th e

favorit e to y a nd I still got it t oday .

f i g h t . We w e r e e x a c t l y t h e s a m e a g e . E v e r y b o dy w e n t w i th i n the same it was somebody. Yeah.

A G : Yeah, tha t’s pr et t y cool .

E G: A nd it wa s ju st m ade out of a piece of t r ee br a n c h a n d

A G : T h a t ’s p re t t y g o o d .

w e’ve c ome tapere d d own. And s he put wings on it a n d s h e

E G : H e w a s a k i d f r o m Wo l b a c h . A n d I n e v e r kn e w h i m .

p ut a pro pe ller o n it. And t he hole and t hen we put i t o n a

A n d h e n e v e r k n e w m e . A n d b u t h e w a s h e w a s h e w a s, o h ,

nail on post an d th at was when t hey and t hen So ca n t h e

I d o n ’ t k n o w w h a t t o s a y . . H e w a s n o t u n c o n s c i o u s. Bu t

p rop eller go a rou nd? W e’d wear I ’d wear out about t w o o r

h e d i d n ’ t k n o w w h a t h e w a s s a y i n g . We w e n t do w n to th e

three propelle rs a ye ar . And t hen f inally , s om et hing s n a p p e d

basement of the auditorium. He was mixed up

and b ro ke an d fe ll off t he pos t or s om et hing. Yeah.

A G : S o d o y o u re me mb e r, I w a s d o i n g s o me r e s e a r c h on A G : L et’s s ee . Did y ou pl ay bal l as a ki d?

t h e C i v i l i a n C o n s e rv a t i o n C o rp s ? D o y o u re me m be r t he m

E G: Y es, we did play a lot of ball. The k ids in t he c o u n t r y

b e i n g d o w n a t t h e p a rk a t a l l ?

school, we pla ye d ball. Bas eball or s of t ball. But we n e v e r

E G : N o . B u t w h e n I w a s i n f i r s t g r a d e , o u t a t Co u n tr y sc h o o l ,

w ere v e ry goo d. I play ed. I play ed one on- we had a s o f t b a l l

t h e C C C ’ s p l a n t e d t h e t r e e s r i g h t s o u t h o f t h e sc h o o l h o u se

in hig h sc ho ol. I played one or t wo y ear s . M y f r es h m a n

t h e r e , a n d t h e y p l a n t e d a h a l f a m i l e l o n g . A n d a bo u t 1 0 0

sop hom ore ye ar I play ed s of t ball as a s por t in high s c h o o l ,

f e e t w i d e o f a l l d i f f e r e n t k i n d s o f t r e e s . A n d I re m e m be r

b ut I wasn’t very go od . And t hen we dis cont inued th a t . A n d

t h e m p u t t i n g i n s o m e r a b b i t p o i s o n i n g . A n d m y da d sa i d

130

d on’t go in th ere . A rabbit would eat t he lit t le baby t r e e s

A G : We re y o u d i s a p p o i n t e d y o u w e re n ’ t i n t he pla y ?

they p la nte d, th ey wer e jus t s aplings . And t her e’s o n l y a b o u t

E G : We l l , I e n j o y e d i t . B u t t h e y p u t i t o n t h r e e ti m e s.

six or e igh t inc he s ta ll. And r abbit s eat t hem . So t h e y p u t

A n d t h e y l e t m e b e i n i t o n M o n d a y a f t e r n o o n , o r Su n da y

p oison in a little bait box along t her e. And we got o r d e r e d

a f t e r n o o n a n d S u n d a y n i g h t . A n d M o n d a y n i g ht a n d I go t to

not to go in the re. So t hey plant ed t hey plant ed s he l t e r b e l t ,

b e i n a M o n d a y n i g h t . T h e g u y t h a t t o o k m y p l a c e h a ppe n to

they call th em. T o prot ect t he liv es t ock and f ields f r o m t h e

b e F a t h e r K u r t e n b a c h . Y e a h . B u t m y p a r t w a s a m i sc h i e vo u s.

w ind . An d th at’s why t he s and bunched up ar ound t h e h o u s e

t e e n a g e r . A n d h e d e f i n i t e l y w a s n ’ t a m i s c h i e v o u s te e n a ge r ,

b ecause th e win d wo uld com e and t her e was not hin g t o s t o p

and I definitely was.

it f rom th e No rth Pole on.

A G : D i d y o u g e t t o g o o u t o n t h e w e e k e n d s o r a ny t hing?

A G : I t’s inter e sting. Di d you get t o go t o t he f ai r?

C o me t o t o w n ?

E G: Y es. W e a lways g ot t o go t o t he f air . I n Bar t let t o n e

E G : A h , a f t e r I g e t o u t o f h i g h s c h o o l , I c o u l d g o o u t e ve r y

nig ht . An d in Spalding , we got t o go s om et im es t wi c e . A n d

w e e k e n d , o r F r i d a y n i g h t a n d S a t u r d a y n i g h t o r I c o u l d.

w e always try to go dur ing t he par ade becaus e y ou g o t

I ’ v e p r e t t y m u c h o n m y o w n b e c a u s e m y b r o t h e r w e n t i n to

free ticke ts. An d we would walk in t he par ade ev er y y e a r .

s e r v i c e a n d I w a s h o m e h e l p i n g m y d a d a n d h e e xpe c te d

Y ou kn ow, ju st in ou r count r y clot hes . And we wer e k i n d o f

m e t o b e a v a i l a b l e i n t h e m o r n i n g . A n d h e n e v e r pa i d m e

scared o f the town kid s . Yeah.

n o t h i n g b u t s p e n d i n g m o n e y . Y e a h . S o h e w o ul dn ’ t h e n e ve r s t o p p e d m e . We a l w a y s h a d a c a r p i c k u p . We go t to pi c k u p

A G : We r e y ou shy?

w h e n I w a s w h e n I w a s 1 6 . I w a s a j u n i o r . We g o t th e pi c k

E G: I wa s bashfu l. Ex cept ar ound people I k new an d t h e n I

u p , a n d w e h a d a p r e t t y n e w p i c k u p o n a p r e t ty n e w c a r .

w asn’t.

I n t h o s e d a y s . T h i n g s w e r e p r e t t y g o o d o n t h e fa r m . An d I c o u l d e i t h e r h a v e o n e o r t h e o t h e r a n d I d i d n ’ t m i n d i t. N o ,

A G : Did you e ve r ge t i nt o any t r oubl e as a ki d?

I s t a y e d i n t o w n f o r y e a r s w i t h M r s . C o n l e y . A nd sh e ke pt

E G: Well, n ot to o mu ch t r ouble. M y m om had t o com e i n a n d

b o r d e r s h e h a d I t h i n k w e h a d f i v e , f i v e h i g h s c h o o l ki ds.

talk to Sister Ma ry Ca r l’s a couple t im es . But it was j u s t o v e r

A n d w e s t a y e d t o g e t h e r a n d d o w n . A n d s h e t oo k c a r e o f

some, maybe talking back or s k ipping s chool. I us e d t o k i n d

us pretty well. She was a good cook, and we had a lot of

of skip sc ho ol o nc e a m ont h. For pr act ice, I gues s . O n e t i m e

hamburger be we liked it.

I skip ped whe n I wa s a s enior , we had a s enior cla s s p l a y p ractice . And it was dur ing pheas ant s eas on and o u t o u r I

A G : T h a t ’s i n t e re s t i n g . Wh o i s y o u r b e s t f ri e nd a s a

w ant ed to go hu ntin g wit h pheas ant s wit h t he boy s. A n d s o

child?

I skip ped pra ctic ing. They k ick ed m e out of t he pla y . T h e y

E G : M y b e s t f r i e n d a s a c h i l d w a s m y c o u s i n Je r o m e

w ere goin g to expe l m e f r om s chool, and t he clas s v o t e d o n

Glesinger. He was three months younger than me and a

w het her th ey sh ou ld e x pel m e or not , but t hey didn ’ t .

g r a d e b e h i n d m e i n s c h o o l . A n d w e w e n t t o s ch o o l fo r e i gh t y e a r s t o g e t h e r . A n d w e w e r e t o g e t h e r e v e r y w e e ke n d a n d

A G : Re ally !?

e v e r y n i g h t a n d e v e r y t h i n g . A n d t h e n I g o t t o to w n , m y be st

E G: I h ad so me frie nd s in clas s .

f r i e n d w a s p r o b a b l y G r a c e ’ s b e s t f r i e n d ’ s h u s b a n d, C l e tu s G a l v i n . A n d w h e n h e w a s , h e w a s a l m o s t t w o ye a r s o l de r

131

than m e a nd a grade behind m e. I gr aduat ed when I w a s 1 7 .

m i g h t h a v e b e e n a b o u t a f r e s h m a n o r s o p h o m or e ? H e ’ s fr o m

B ut I wa s 1 6 a ll thro ugh m y s enior y ear ex cept f or f o u r d a y s .

Grand Island.

A G : S o pr oba bly win t he aw ar d f or t he youngest A c a d e my

A G : I o n l y k n o w i s F r. K u rt e n b a c h b e c a u s e he doe s n’t

g rad u a te.

h a v e a n y f i n g e rs .

E G: N o, I wasn’t th e younges t one. But t her e ar e s o m e . H e r e

E G : B u t t h e y w e r e b o t h o n t h e o t h e r t e a m . I c a n ’ t r e m e m be r

there’s some rea lly young ones , Fr . M ur phy and J im m y J o e

it now.

S mit h, tho se gu ys wer e r eally y oung. And m y br ot h e r B i l l h e g rad ua ted. He gradua t ed in M ay and he was was n’ t 1 7 t i l l

A G : Wh a t d i d y o u w a n t t o b e w h e n y o u g re w up?

the next No ve mbe r. He was 16 and a half t hr ough h i s s e n i o r

E G : I w a n t e d t o b e a p i l o t , a n a i r p l a n e p i l o t . If I h a d l e ft

year. It is a nd it’s qui t e a dis adv ant age. Thos e olde r k i d s

f o r f o u r y e a r s i n t h e A i r F o r c e , a n d I k n e w I w asn ’ t sm a r t

said th ey were sma rter t han we wer e. And I k now I w a s j u s t

e n o u g h t o t o m a k e f l i g h t t r a i n i n g a n y w a y s o b ut I a l w a ys

as smart a s th ey were when t hey wer e up m y age a n d t h e

w a n t t o b e a p i l o t . I l o v e d a i r p l a n e s a l l m y l i f e . An d I di d

same gra de sma rter than m e.

b e c o m e a p i l o t a n d I b o u g h t m y o w n a i r p l a n e wh e n I w a s 4 4 y e a r s o l d a n d s o l d i t w h e n I w a s 8 0 y e a r s o l d a n d fl e w i t fo r

A G : A nd so wha t was t he Academ y l i ke w hen you w e n t t o

a l o n g t i m e . I g a v e a l o t o f p e o p l e t h e i r f i r s t a i r pl a n e r i de s.

sch o o l?

I w e n t t o a l o t o f g r o u n d s c h o o l s w e u s e d t o h a ve ba c k

E G: It wa s a pre tty big s chool. W e want all our bas k e t b a l l

w h e n I w a s 3 5 t o 4 0 y e a r s o l d . E v e r y y e a r t h e r e ’ d be a to w n

g ames it ju st a bo ut becaus e we wer e a clas s C s ch o o l a n d

a r o u n d t h a t w o u l d h a v e a f l i g h t t r a i n i n g g r o u n d sc h o o l w h e n

everybody a rou nd us as was clas s D s chool. And w e h a d ,

s o m e b o d y a n d I w o u l d j u s t a b o u t t o g o t o e v e ry o n e . I m u st

like 30 ou t for baske tball. And if y ou m ade t he t op 1 0 , y o u

h a v e w e n t t o e i g h t o r 1 0 g r o u n d s c h o o l s t o l e ar n n a vi ga ti o n

had to be pre tty goo d. And I did m ak e t op 10 t he ju n i o r

a n d c l o u d s w e a t h e r a n d p r o p e r w a y t o f l y a n d stu ff l i ke th a t

and se nio r ye ar e ve n t hough I was only t he about f i v e f o o t

O h t h e y w e r e s o m e t i m e s I w e n t w e w e n t t o O r d a c o u pl e o f

six. B u t the y did give let t er s t o 12 people and I got a l e t t e r

y e a r s . I w e n t t o s o m a n y a n d I t h o u g h t m a y b e I w a s ki n d o f

in my jun ior a nd se nio r y ear . And we had we had a g o o d

smart.

b asketba ll tea m. W e w ent we went t o dif f er ent plac e s . T h e most m emo rable o ne was we went t o Sy dney f or t hr e e d a y s .

A G : A l l t h e o t h e r s u c k e rs f i rs t t i me . Ye a h . S o, y ou

We sta ye d o ut th ere and play ed on t he Cat holic dio c e s a n

g ra d u a t e d h i g h s c h o o l p re t t y y o u n g . Wh a t d id y ou do

tournamen t. And we g ot beat awf ul bad t he f ir s t nig h t a n d

a f t e r?

then we wo n th e n ext t wo gam es . W e had a good t i m e . We

E G : We l l , f o r t w o y e a r s a f t e r h i g h s c h o o l . M y br o th e r w e n t

stayed in a mote l. Th e m ot el and paid f or . O ur way w a s

i n t h e A i r F o r c e f o r f o u r y e a r s a n d I k n e w I w a s go i n g to

p aid . T he y paid for o ur m eal. So it was r eal nice t r i p .

h a v e t o g o t o t h e a r m y . S o I s t a y e d a t h o m e a n d h e l pe d m y d a d . M y d a d n e e d e d h e l p o n t h e f a r m . A n d I f ar m e d fo r tw o

A G :T hat’s pr e tty c oo l .

y e a r s f r o m M a y o f ’ 5 0 t o M a y o f 5 3 . I s t a y e d o n th e fa r m

E G: N orth Platte . And I t hink Fat her Fat her , who is t h e g u y

w i t h m y d a d . We w e r e b u i l d i n g a n e w h o u s e u p th e r e a t th e

that has little mustac he. I can’t r em em ber his nam e . Wh o

t i m e . A n d s o i t t o o k a l o t a l o t o f w o r k . A n d t h e pr i c e s w e r e

w as the big ta ll on e th at died not t oo long ago her e . O r y o u

s t a r t i n g t o f a i l a l i t t l e b i t s o w e d i d n ’ t h a v e a wh o l e l o t bu t

132

I’d g et a co uple dolla r s week s but in m oney and t ha t w a s enoug h .

A G : D i d y o u g e t t o g o h o me f o r a l i t t l e b i t .

E G : Y e a h , I g o t I w a s c l o s e e n o u g h f r o m F o r t R i l e y th a t I

A G : I got a pictur e I hear d t hat t hi s w as t he ni gh t b e f o re

c a m e h o m e t h r e e d i f f e r e n t w e e k e n d s . I n t h e 1 6 w e e ks I

cactu s we nt s er v ice .

w a s i n b a s i c t r a i n i n g . A n d t h e n a f t e r b a s i c t r a in i n g w a s

E G: It is Ye ah . He wa s going t o t he he was going t o t h e A i r

o v e r , w e g o t 1 0 d a y s t o l e a v e . A n d I g o t s e l e c te d to go to

Force the ne xt day. Yeah f or f our y ear s .

L e a d e r s h i p S c h o o l . S o I w e n t b a c k t o F o r t R i l e y fo r e i gh t w e e k s L e a d e r s h i p S c h o o l b u t I d i d n o t m a k e i t. I fl u n ke d o u t

A G : Up to no good. S o af t er you f ar m ed and t hen y o u

L e a d e r s h i p S c h o o l a f t e r e i g h t w e e k s , n o a f t e r si x w e e ks o r

wen t i nto the s er v ice . W her e w as your basi c t r ai n i n g ?

s o . B u t t h e y p l a n f o r a b o u t h a l f t o f l u n k o u t . I f th e y pi c ke d

E G: I to ok ba sic train ing at For t Riley . Fir s t I went o n t o

o n y o u a l i t t l e b i t o f t h e m t a k e l o n g w e a r u s o u t. An d th e n I

Omaha an d got te ste d f or f our dif f er ent t hings . And t h e n w e

w a s v e r y l u c k y . I g o t o r d e r s f o r G e r m a n y a n d I h a d to r e po r t

g ot on a bus an d we went t o cam p, Cr owder , M is s o u r i f o r a

t o c a m p . I w a s i n N e w J e r s e y f o r s h i p m e n t o v er se a s. An d

w eek an d th ere the y g av e us our s hop and all our c l o t h e s

I w e n t t o w e n t h o m e f o r 1 0 d a y s . We g o t 1 0 d ays be tw e e n

and ev erythin g we ne eded. For t he ar m y . W e r eally g o t a

then and I got another week after Leadership School. I went

lot of cloth es. W e got f iv e pair of k hak is , t hr ee f at ig u e s , t w o

t o O m a h a a n d g o t o n a p l a n e a n d w e f l e w t o c a m p C r o w de r

p air of bo ots, on e pai r of s hoes , 10 pair of s ock s , a n d 1 0

i n M i s s o u r i a n d N e w J e r s e y a n d w e w a i t e d f o r th e sh i p. On

shirts a nd T shirts. Belt s our m et als t hat we had t o p u t o n

D e c e m b e r t h e t h i r d , w e b o a r d e d t h e s h i p t o g o o ve r se a s

our collars an d c aps . And we had a bag f ull of clo t h e s .

a n d 2 , 8 0 0 o f u s o n t h i s s h i p a n d I w a s o n t h e fi r st da y. W e

A nd th e n we go t on a bus and af t er s ev en day s of c a m p ,

w e r e o n b o a r d t h e s h i p o n e d a y e a r l y , b e c a u s e w e h a d to

C row d er, Misso uri, we went t o For t Riley , Kans as . A n d t h a t

g e t r e a d y f o r t h e r e s t o f t h e m . S o I h a d k i t c h e n de ta i l fo r th e

w as that in the last of M ay of 53. And it was r eally a h o t

1 0 , t h e n i n e d a y s w e w e r e o n b o a r d s h i p . A n d w e w e n t, w e

summer an d we didn’ t s t ar t our bas ic t r aining unt il J u n e t h e

w e n t s a i l i n g o n D e c e m b e r t h e f o u r t h . T h a t w a s a n i n e da y w e

seventh an d th en we had it wer e br and new f at igue s w i t h

g o t i n t o t o G e r m a n y o n t h e f o u r t h 1 3 t h o r 1 4 t h o f D e c e m be r .

a really warm t-shirt. And we jus t had 16 week s of h e a v y

And we got aboard a train. And they went to town called on

w eap on s in fan try. W e wer e t he f ir s t com pany t o s ho o t a n d

w h a t t h e y L i e c h t e n s t e i n . A n d t h e y g a v e u s a l l ki n ds o f te sts

ret rain an d a ne w wea pon, which was a 105. Hollist e r , n o

a n d e v e r y t h i n g a n d w e g o t o r d e r s t o w h e r e w e w e r e go i n g

105 reco illess rifle tha t was on t he back of t he J eep . T h e

t o b e . A n d I g o t o r d e r s f o r t h e s e c o n d a r m o r e d C a l va r y i n

Jeep we ha d to ha ve a J eep dr iv er and t hen a gunn e r . Y e a h ,

B a m b e r g . A n d s o I g o t o n t h e t r a i n a n d r o d e a n o th e r da y,

it was fun . And it was heav y weapons and we s hot t h e 5 0

i t w a s a d a y a n d a h a l f f r o m f r o m w h e r e w e g ot o ff th e sh i p

calib er mac hin e gun s and t he 30 caliber m achine g u n s a n d

d o w n t o L i e c h t e n s t e i n . A n d t h e n i t w a s a n o t h e r da y a n d a

the subma ch ine gu ns in t he 45 cool. And of cour s e t h e M - 1

h a l f t o B a m b e r g . B u t w e d i d n ’ t g o t o B a m b e r g , w e w e n t to

g rand wh ich we re ad t he k eep t ak e wit h us ev er y wh e r e w e

N u r e m b e r g f i r s t , b e c a u s e N u r e m b e r g w a s o u r h e a dqu a r te r s.

w ent exc ept tha t we d idn’t hav e t o eat wit h it . But w h e n w e

A n d t h e n e x t d a y , w e g o t o n t h e b a c k o f a t r u c k a n d r o de

g ot up in the morn ing and f all out f or r oll call, we h a d t o

t o B a m b e r g , a n d t h a t ’ s w h e r e I w a s s t a t i o n e d fo r th e n e xt

have it a nd the n h ad t o be clean and r eady t o go. B u t i t w a s

1 6 m o n t h s . A n d t h a t w a s a b o r d e r p a t r o l . We g u a r de d th e

a long h ot summe r. I was glad when it was ov er .

133

b ord er of the Iron Curtain bet ween Cz echos lov ak ia a n d

w e c r o s s e d A u s t r i a a n d I t a l y a n d w e n t t o t h e f i r st to w n i n

G ermany. T he re wo uld be one J eep and one m achin e g u n i n

I t a l y w e w e n t t o w a s V e n i c e w i t h t h e w a t e r c a n a l go n do l a

t he b ac k o f the Je ep and a r adio J eep and t hen wou l d d r i v e

s y s t e m s t u f f a n d w e g o t d o w n o n a S u n d a y m o rn i n g. An d w e

up and do wn a lon g th e bor der . And I t hink we wer e g u a r d e d

j u s t c a m e r i g h t o u t a n d t h e r e w a s a m a s s . T h e re ’ s a c h u r c h

24 miles, dro ve up an d back 24 hour s a day , s ev en d a y s

r i g h t t h e r e a n d w e w e n t t o m a s s r i g h t t h e r e . Y ea h , w e l l An d

a w eek, fo rever a nd ever . But I was nev er on t he pa t r o l . I

w e s t a y e d t h e r e o n e d a y . A n d t h e n w e w e n t o v er a n d w e

worked on the pa trol th ough I was wher e I wor k ed in t h e

w e n t d o w n t o F l o r e n c e w a s t h e n e x t t o w n d o w n, do w n th e

cold the se rvic e c ompany . And we would haul s uppl i e s t o

leg of the boot, like a boot, you know, Italy, down, Florence.

everyb ody, gas, an d it was a t ank . W e had a lot of ta n k s . We

A n d t h e n w e w e n t t o R o m e . A n d t h e n w e w e n t o n fu r th e r

had a ta nk co mpa ny and each of our line com panies , D o g ,

s o u t h t o t h e b i g p o r t . A t t h e v e r y e n d , t h e b u t , I do n ’ t th i n k

Fox, and Ea sy. W e h ad t hr ee com panies and t hat lin e m e n

I ’ d e v e r f o r g e t i t , b u t b e i n g e v e r y t h i n g b e i n g m a n y ye a r s

line com pa nie s th e Do g Eas y and Fas t com pany , ea c h h a d

o l d , m a k e s t u f f l i k e t h a t . A n d I w a s v e r y i n t e r e sti n g.

10 t anks a nd tan k c om pany had 25 t ank s . And we h a d t o make sure th ey all h ad gas and r eady t o go on t r ack .

A G : Wh a t w a s y o u r f a v o ri t e p l a c e y o u w e n t ?

I d rove th e tru ck most of t he t im e. Unt il one day I wa s o n t h e

E G : F o r e n c e – I t w a s v e r y p r e t t y , a l o t o f a l o t of pr e tty

motor poo l, an d th e ser geant was t y ping and he was p i c k i n g

statues and pictures and art kind of stuff.

aw ay w ith o ne finger. A nd I s aid t hat I was n’t doing n o t h i n g .

I said I ’ll type th at fo r y ou if y ou want m e t o do s o h e g a v e

A G : D i d y o u g o t o y o u e a t a l o t o f s p a g h e t t i a t t ha t t im e ?

me a b un ch of stuff a nd I t y ped it up I can s t ill t y pe I ’ m

E G : O h , t h a t ’ s a l l w e k n e w h o w t o s a y . I d i d I l i ke i t u n ti l I

t yp ing pre tty goo d but only went up t ook one y ear o f i t . A n d

g o t t h e r e . A n d t h e n a f t e r I a t e i t a b o u t e v e r y m ea l fo r 1 0

he just said all I’m ju st gonna m ak e y ou a cler k . So I w a s i n

d a y , n o t a s m u c h . A n d w e d i d n ’ t h a v e v e r y m u ch m o n e y

t he clerk’s o ffice for th e nex t 10 m ont hs bout . I t y pe d o u t

either, you know?

p asses a nd made mo rning r epor t s .

A G : H o w a b o u t G e rma n y ? D i d y o u l i k e G e rmany ?

AG: P roba bly by the end you w er e r eal l y good.

E G : Y e s , I d i d . I l i k e d t h e G e r m a n p e o p l e . A n d in Ge r m a n y

E G : Y ea h, it goo d duty , but I was alone t oo m uch. I w a s i n

a n d I h a v e a l o t o f f r i e n d s . I a l s o w a s i n c h a r g e o f th e ga s

t here all by myse lf most of t he t im e.

a n d I h a d t o g o a n d w o u l d g e t a n a l l o c a t i o n e v e r y m o n th .

A n d i t w a s a l o t f o r 4 0 , 0 0 0 t o 5 0 , 0 0 0 g a l l o n s a m o n th o f ga s

AG: Wer e the r e othe r Spal di ng guys over t her e t o o ?

w h e r e I h a d t o f i n d f o r a n d I ’ d h a v e t o g o t o t h e Ge r m a n s.

E G : O ne- Mc Man ama n cam e and v is it ed m e once. B u t t h e r e

A n d w e g o t a l m o s t t h e t i m e w e g o t t h e r e , w e ’ l l br i n g a

wasn’t ve ry ma ny. Th er e was pr obably ov er 100, 000 s o l d i e r s

transport up and fill our pumps. But when we went out on

over t he re a t the time.

a f i e l d , e v e r y m o n t h , w e ’ d h a v e a n a l e r t . A n d w e ’ d go o u t f o r t h r e e d a y s . A n d w h e n t h o s e t a n k s w o u l d b e o n th e r o a d

AG: Yo u got to go to I t al y.

f o r t h r e e d a y s , a n d w e h a d t o m a k e s u r e t h e y al l h a d ga s.

E G : Y es, I too k wh ile I was t her e. A k id f r om Penns y l v a n i a

A n d w e c a r r i e d i t i n f i v e g a l l o n c a n s i n t h e b a ck o f th e

and I we re Ca tho lic. A nd I s aid I want I ’d lik e t o go d o w n

n a v t r u c k . A n d t h e y w o u l d h o l d 1 1 0 f i v e - g a l l o n c a n s. An d

and see th e Pope. An d s o we t ook a 10 day f ur lough . A n d

y o u ’ r e j u s t c o m i n g w h e n e v e r t h e y w o u l d p a r k we j u st dr i ve

we would from Ba mbe r g t o Nur em ber g t o M unich. An d t h e n

u p a l o n g s i d e o f t h e m a n d s a y h o w m a n y g a l l o n s yo u n e e d.

134

They’d s ay I ne ed 15 0 why we jus t t hr ow out t hat m a n y

d a d w a s t a l k i n g t o J e r r y B e r n t o n e d a y a n d h e w a n te d to

cans. They turn aro un d, com e back and get it when w e w e r e

r e n t a f a r m o u t . A n d m y d a d s a i d w e l l , I w a n t ed to r u n a

emp ty. An d th en we’d go t o t he gas plant and t hey w o u l d

f a r m . S o I c a m e b a c k a n d I r e n t e d t h e f a r m f r om Je r r y Be r n t

rep lace the m for u s. B ut we had t o f ind f or all t hos e g a s

f o r a w h i l e I ’ m w o n d e r i n g f o r f o u r o r f i v e y e a r s, i t w a s a n

cans and we ac ce pt e x cept when we r un m aneuv er s a n d

i r r i g a t e d f a r m . S o , a t t h a t t i m e , i r r i g a t e d w i t h pi pe , ga te d

st uff like th at we didn’ t . W e wer en’t r es pons ible t oo m u c h .

p i p e . T h e f i r s t o n e f i e l d w a s o p e n d i t c h , w e h ad to pu t h o se s

B ut t hey didn’t wa nt u s t o m ov e t o any . And t he G er m a n s

h a d t o p u t h o s e s i n i t . A n d o t h e r t h a n t h a t w a y. I u se so m e

loved the m. Th ey wou ld com e up and s t eal r ight out o f y o u .

o f h i s m a c h i n e r y a n d s o m e o f m y d a d ’ s a n d p e o pl e w e r e

O ne of the thin gs I rem em ber m os t was we wer e in a p r e t t y

o f t e n g o o d t o m e . G r a c e ’ s d a d g a v e m e a c o u pl e o f 1 0 0 0

long convoy. And we’d been dr iv ing f or a couple of d a y s .

m y d a d g a v e m e a c o u p l e 1 0 0 0 f o r w o r k i n g f o r h i m fo r th e

A nd I ca me u p o n a railr oad t r ack . And t her e and we h a d

s u m m e r , h e g a v e m e t w o h e i f e r c o w s . S o I h a d tw o c o w s

t o w e sto pped the re a nd I was t her e f or about 10 m i n u t e s .

a n d 4 0 0 0 a n d , a n d a f a r m c h e c k o f $ 1 1 0 a m o n th . Bu t th e n

A nd d arne d if I didn ’t go t o s leep and I wok e up and t h e r e

a f t e r I w a s t h e r e f o r a y e a r , l i k e t h e y q u i t t h e fa r m sc h o o l

was nobody th ere . I was t he v er y las t t r uck in t he co n v o y .

s o I w o u l d w o r k o u t o n c e i n a w h i l e . I w a s I w as a su bsti tu te

A nd t ha t I woke u p a nd t her e was nobody ins ide. So p r e t t y

m a i l c a r r i e r f o r M r . S a v a g e ’ s r o u t e f r o m S p a l d i n g to Ba r tl e tt,

soon The doo r open ed nex t t o m e and it was a G er m a n a n d

E r i c k s o n a n d b a c k e n d . A n d h e g a v e m e $ 4 a da y fo r ta ki n g

he wante d to bu y some gas . That ’s all y ou k now. Ye a h . A n d

t h a t r o u t e . B u t I d r o v e h i s p i c k u p s o i t w a s i t wa s pr e tty

I t ook off h ard as I co uld. And I caught him about I d o n ’ t

g o o d m o n e y . A n d i t k i n d o f g o t m e i n t h e d o o r fo r w h e n I

know, th ree or fo ur mil es down t he r oad.

w h e n t h e y s u b s t i t u t e j o b o p e n e d u p . I k i n d o f h a d th e i n si de s t e p o n i t . I k n e w a l i t t l e b i t m o r e a b o u t o u r m a i l th a n m o st

AG: T h e r e’s not too m any t ur ns i n t he r oad.

p e o p l e d i d . S o I g o t t h e s u b s t i t u t e j o b f o r 2 2 y e a r s. T h a t w a s

E G : A nd th e ro ad was s o nar r ow. Yeah. That was s o m e t h i n g

v e r y n i c e j o b . T h a t w a s a g o o d j o b t h a t w a s a w fu l ste a dy,

t hat nev er did fo rge t wak ing up and t her e was nobo d y t h e r e .

b u t I e n j o y e d i t . A n d I w o r k e d f o r s o m e a w f u l n i c e pe o pl e , f o r B u d B r o w n a n d L e o n a r d D u n n i n g a n d A r l e ne D u n n i n g a n d M a r y H e l e n H o o k s t r a a n d w e r e a l l y g o t a l o n g ve r y go o d.

AG: S o afte r you got back f r om G er m any, t hen di d y o u g o straig h t to Om aha or w hat di d you do?

E G : O h, whe n I c ame back f r om G er m any . I went ba c k t o t h e f arm and I h elped my d ad M y br ot her f ar m . And f ir s t y e a r , we had a dro ught 1 95 5 we didn’t har dly r ais e not hin g . A n d my b roth er we nt to wor k in O m aha. And he went t o w o r k f o r Mob il Oil Co mpa ny an d down t her e. And I s t ay ed ho m e a n d f armed . And the n th e n ex t y ear he cam e back and I w e n t d ow n to Omah a I wo rk ed t he s am e place wher e he w o r k e d .

A nd I wo rke d fo r the m f or t hr ee y ear s . I ’m 56 t o 59. A n d g o t married in be twee n in 1957. And got a chance t o co m e b a c k t o the farm in ‘59 the y had a f ar m pr ogr am f or G I Ve t e r a n s , and t he y paid yo u to go t o s chool. And t hey paid m e $ 1 1 0 a month a nd tha t was enough t o br ing m e back and m y 135

APPENDIX C.3

interview Kitty Carlin A G : Whe n a nd whe r e w er e you bor n?

a n d w e d i d i t d o w n i n t h e c r e a m e r y d o w n i n t h e gr e e n e r y.

K C: I wa s born in Spa lding, Nebr as k a. The 11t h, m o n t h 1 1 t h

A n d w e u s e d t o h a v e t o g o t a k e i t a l l a p a r t , b r i n g i t u p to

d ay 19 35 .

t h e h o u s e , w a s h i t a l l o u t , a n d t h e n b r i n g i t b a c k do w n w h e n i t w a s t i m e t o s e p a r a t e t h e m i l k a g a i n . A n d I w a s te r r i fi e d

A G : And wer e you b or n i n t he hospi t al ?

t h e s n a k e s . A n d t h e b o y s u s e d t o a l w a y s s a y , l i ke o u t

K C: N o, it was just lik e I don’t k now what y ou call t h e m a

t h e r e ’ s a s n a k e , y o u k n o w , t o s c a r e m e a n d i t m i gh t be a

nurses ho me th at she liv ed t her e and, and t he docto r c a m e

s t i c k o r s o m e t h i n g . We l l , w e w e r e c o m i n g u p f r o m th e gr a i n

there and de live red the babies . And t hen t hey s t ay e d t h e r e

mean I was had my arms full and Edward said “look out a

for p roba bly abou t 10 day s . They s t ay ed wit h t his th i s h o m e .

s n a k e ! ” a n d I s a i d “o h y e a h ”. A n d I s t e p p e d o n a bi g bu l l

B ecaus e wh en I ha d m y f ir s t baby , I s t ay ed in t he h o s p i t a l

s n a k e . A n d t h a t w a s a s c a r y t i m e . S o t h a t ’ s a n o th e r ti m e

for 10 days. T he y th ou ght t hat was nice. M y las t on e , t h e y

I r e m e m b e r . A n d I t h i n k t h a t ’ s i t . I d o n ’ t k n o w , w e u se d to

could n ’t let me ou t ha lf hour lat er .

p l a y o u t i n t h e c i s t e r n s a n d t h e w a t e r w o u l d r un o ve r a n d w e u s e d t o h a v e f a r m s a n d m a k e a r i v e r o u t o f i t a n d a l l th o se t h i n g s . S o t h a t ’ s k i n d o f t h e e a r l i e s t m e m o r i e s I h a ve .

A G : And we r e you nam ed af t er a f am i l y m em ber? O r d o e s yo u r na m e hav e s pe ci al m eani ngs?

K C: I wa s n ame d a fter m y m ot her . M y nam e is Kat h l e e n a n d

A G : F u n n y - g ra n d p a ’s f i rs t me mo ry w a s v er y s im ila r t o

my moth er’s na me wa s r eally Br idget Kat hleen. And b u t t h e y

y o u r f i rs t o n e . I t w a s Ye a h , h e w a s o u t p l a y i ng in t he in

named me Ka thle en . But t hen I lat er on, I f ound a l e t t e r t h a t

t h e d i rt . T h a t k i n d o f s a n d . U h h u h .

my d ad h ad written to m y m ot her bef or e t hey wer e m a r r i e d .

Wh a t w a s y o u r h o u s e l i k e a s a c h i l d ?

A nd he said, “ W ell, K it t y , I bet t er clos e f or now. An d s o I

K C : I t w a s a n o l d h o u s e . A n d i t h a d n o b a t h r o om . W e h a d a n

think t ha t’s wh ere I go t t he nam e k it t y . ” I lik e t hat .

o u t h o u s e . A n d I w a s s c a r e d o f b u l l s n a k e s , a n d bu l l sn a ke s u s e d t o b e i n t h e r e o n c e i n a w h i l e . I w a n t e d t o ge t i n th e

A G : Wha t’s the e ar liest m em or y you have?

o u t h o u s e a n d t h e y ’ d b e c r a w l i n g u p t h e w a l l o f th e o u th o u se

K C: Oh , let’s se e. I c an r em em ber when m y br ot her a n d I ,

s c a r e d t h e l l i v e n d a y l i g h t s o u t o f m e . I ’ d b e l i ke pe a ki n g

your g ra ndpa were ou t play ing in a k ind of in a s an d d u n e

d o w n t h e h o l e t o s e e i f t h e r e w a s a s n a k e o u t th e r e be fo r e

out there a nd the ho rs es got out . And t hey t ook of f . L i k e , I

y o u s e t o u t . A n d i t w a s q u i t e o l d , i t w a s c o l d . An d th e w i n d

d on’t k no w wha t. Bat O ut of Hell alm os t . And Edwa r d s a i d

b l e w t h r o u g h i t . B u t t h e n t h e y w h e n I w a s a l l pr o ba bl y a bo u t

“d uck! ” a nd I sa id “ w hat ? ” and I duck ed and t he ho r s e s

1 0 t h e y m o v e t h e h o u s e t h a t ’ s t h e r e n o w u p b u t i t di dn ’ t ge t

jump ed o ve r the bo th of us . And t hat was k ind of a s c a r y

s t a r t e d t o r e j u v e n a t e i t f o r a b o u t t h r e e o r f o u r ye a r s a fte r

time. An d I a lso reme m ber we us ed t o s epar at e t he m i l k

that.

136

l o n g b r o w n s o c k s . I h a t e d s o c k t h o s e l o n g b r o w n so c ks A G : Wha t was your f am i l y dynam i c l i ke?

r e l i g i o u s l y . I d o n ’ t k n o w , I m i g h t h a v e g o t s o m e o th e r l i ttl e

K C: Oh , ou r family was a v er y lov ing f am ily . The bo y s t e a s e d

toy. But I remember that was being the main thing and

us- espec ially Bill. Es pecially Billy and Pat t y t eas e d u s . I

w a s n ’ t v e r y h a p p y . We d i d g e t c o m m o d i t i e s f r om th e sc h o o l

hated the m whe n I wa s gr owing up. I didn’t k now I ’ d l o v e

t o d i f f e r e n t t h i n g s . A n d t h e y u s e d t o b r i n g c o mm o di ti e s a t

him so mu ch late r, bu t at t he t im e, I hat ed t hem . Bi l l u s e d

t h a t t i m e a n d g i v e p a r e n t s l i k e o r a n g e s a n d a ppl e s to pu t i n

to p lay so man y tric ks on us all t he t im e. And I r em e m b e r

o u r s o c k s . A n d t h e y w e r e q u i t e a d e a l a t t h a t ti m e be c a u se

once he told me th at m y job was t o gat her t he eggs a n d i t

w e d i d n ’ t g e t f r e s h f r u i t u p h e r e . A n d s o t o g e t o r a n ge s a n d

w as g e tting da rk. Bill s aid t o m e, M om , Kit t y didn’t g a t h e r

a p p l e s w a s a p p l e s w a s n o b i g d e a l b e c a u s e w e h a d th e m

the eg gs. So sh e said , W ell, y ou bet t er go do it . So I g o t t h e

o u r s e l v e s . B u t o r a n g e s w e r e o r a n g e s a n d b a n an a w e r e

b ucket a nd wen t ou t. W hen I cam e back f r om t he h e n h o u s e .

d e l i g h t f u l . B u t I t h i n k m y f a v o r i t e t o y w a s p r o b a bl y a do l l .

H e w as la yin g in the gr as s and r eached out and gr a b b e d m y

Our top tractors playing out of the ditch.

leg . A nd of c ou rse I thr ew eggs all ov er and he r an i n t h e ot her doo r an d wa s sit t ing in t he ot her r oom and he c a m e i n

A G : L e t ’s s e e . D o y o u re me mb e r t h e C i v i l i a n

and sa id “ Mo m, Kitty br ok e all of t he eggs ” . He wa s e v i l . I

C o n s e rv a t i o n C o rp s ? C C C ?

just con tinu ou sly tea s ed us .

K C : I d o n ’ t r e m e m b e r t h e m . M y u n c l e J o h n w or ke d fo r th e m .

A n d h e h e w e n t o u t a n d w o r k e d a t t h e H o o v e r D a m . An d

A G : Who was your c l osest si bl i ng?

H o o v e r A n s o n i f y o u k n e w r e m e m b e r h i m t h a t ’ s h o w h e go t

K C: E dwa rd. W e were v er y , v er y good f r iends . I t ho u g h t h e

his name. That wasn’t his real name. And they called him

kind of to ok ca re o f m e. I r em em ber once in high s c h o o l , h e

H o o v e r b e c a u s e t h e y w o r k e d o u t o n t h e H o o v er D a m .

w as a s en ior wh en I was a f r es hm an. And one of t h e b o y s b roug h t a c attle pro d and I ’m one of t hos e elect r ica l c a t t l e

A G : D o y o u re me mb e r t h e d u s t b o w l ?

p rod s. An d re member , Ed s aid, don’t y ou us e t hat o n h e r , I ’ l l

K C : N o . I t w a s a l w a y s d u s t y . We l i v e i n t h e s a n d h i l l s.

have t o get e ve n with y ou. I lov ed him dear ly .

A G : D i d y o u g e t t o g o t o t h e f a i r w h e n y o u we r e lit t le ?

A G : Wha t is the m ost i m por t ant l esson t hat your p a re n t s

K C : I d o n ’ t r e m e m b e r t h e f a i r a t a l l . N o t u n t i l p r o ba bl y go t i n

tau g h t you?

high school. or seventh and eighth grade.

K C: S ay yo ur prayers. Lov e each ot her . I t hink and I w a s p rob ably spo iled be ing t he y ounges t I pr obably wa s . A n d

A G : Wh a t w a s t h a t ? L i k e w h e n y o u w e re o l d e r ?

b ut my o lde r sister spoiled m e but not Pat t y , s he d i d n ’ t

K C : T h e y w e r e f u n . I t w a s f u n . B o y s t o o k u s u p o n r i de s.

sp oil m e a t all. She teas e m e cons t ant ly . And y ou c a n j u s t

Have to have a date.

tell b y th eir h ow th ey act ed as t hey got older . They w e r e t h e typ e t ha t wou ld te ase.

A G : D i d y o u g e t t o c o me t o t o w n v e ry o f t e n ?

K C : N o . We c a m e t o t o w n o n S a t u r d a y . A n d S a tu r da y n i gh t

A G : Did you hav e a f avor i t e t oy as a chi l d?

t h e g r o c e r y s t o r e s a l l s t a y e d o p e n a l l t h e s t o r es i n to w n

K C: Well, I re member when I was eight y ear s old ab o u t

s t a y e d o p e n o n S a t u r d a y n i g h t . A n d I t h i n k w e pr o ba bl y go t

that age. T he on ly th ing I got f or Chr is t m as was a p a i r o f

a q u a r t e r t o s p e n d . A n d w e c o u l d e i t h e r w e c o u l d bu y a n i c e

137

cream c on e a nd a pop was t hat s o t hat was a big t r e a t .

a b l e t o g o i f I d i d n ’ t a s k t h e m . ” A n d t h e r e w a s a bo u t si x o t h e r k i d s i n m y c l a s s t h a t w e n t t o t h a t d a n c e to o . An d sh e

A G : Did you get to go t o t he m ovi es?

n e v e r a s k e d a n y o n e o f t h e m . B u t r e g a r d l e s s , sh e ta u gh t

K C: N ot ve ry o ften no t unt il I got in high s chool. I r e m e m b e r

L a t i n , a n d I l o v e L a t i n . A n d s h e t a u g h t E n g l i s h a n d I l o ve d

the show Go ne with th e W ind was on - and t hat wa s w h a t

E n g l i s h . A n d w h e n w e g o t t o b e o l d e r , w h e n I w a s a se n i o r ,

w as in th at pictu re wa s adv er t is ed G one wit h t he W i n d o f

s h e w a s m y f a v o r i t e n u n . A n d I l o v e d h e r . I w r o te to h e r a fte r

the theate r. And bu t it had s om e s cenes in it t hat w e r e n ’ t

I g r a d u a t e d f r o m h i g h s c h o o l . S h e ’ s v e r y n i c e l a dy. An d sh e

suitab le a nd Rita wa s t he only one t hat got t o go t o i t w i t h

I t h i n k s h e w a s j u s t t r y i n g t o p u s h m e t o d o b ette r th a n w h a t

mom an d An n Mc Kay.

I was doing.

A G : Who was your b est f r i end as a chi l d?

A G : S o w h e n y o u ’ re i n h i g h s c h o o l , y o u c o uld do lik e ,

K C: A s c hild? I’m trying t o t hink of m y clas s m at es . I t w a s

w a s a n o rd i n a ry t ra i n i n g t h a t w h a t i t w a s c a lle d?

p rob ably An n Savage. O r Dor is J ohns on or J oanne P o l a n d .

K C : I t w a s c a l l e d n o r m a l t r a i n i n g . N o r m a l t r a i ni n g th a t w a s

We just wen t to sch oo l t oget her and we s t ay ed got t o s t a y

s t u d y i n g t o b e a t e a c h e r . A n d I f o u n d a n o l d an n u a l h e r e

all nig ht with e ac h o ther . You k now, we had t o go a n d s t a y

a n d o n e o f t h e p u b l i c s c h o o l s a n d I h a d M r . T om j a c k a n d h e

at t heir ho use a ll night . So t hat was f un.

was taught us Normal training. And we went down and we w e r e w i t h t h e p u b l i c s c h o o l g i r l s , o r o n l y g i r l s w e n t te a c h ,

A G : Wha t was the Academ y l i ke w hen you w ent t o

t h e b o y s n e v e r w e n t t o t e a c h . I t h i n k t h e r e w a s o n l y tw o

sch o o l?

o f u s f r o m m y c l a s s t h a t w e n t d o w n t o t e a c h . A n d th e o n l y

K C: A bou t like it is n ow ex cept it was all pr act ically a l l n u n s .

o t h e r t h i n g y o u c o u l d d o w h e n y o u g r a d u a t e d fr o m h i gh

I think Mary Pe terson was a t eacher in t he gr ades . A n d I

s c h o o l , w a s y o u c o u l d g o t o O m a h a a n d w o r k fo r M u tu a l

think s he too k c are of t he libr ar y and I t hink t hat wa s a b o u t

C o m p a n y , s t u d y t o b e a n u r s e , o r t e a c h s c h o o l . T h o se a r e

the only o ne . W e h ad s is t er s all f our y ear s when I w a s i n

t h e t h r e e t h i n g s - o r b e a b e a u t i c i a n . T h o s e a r e th e th i n gs

hig h scho ol. L ike whe n I was a f r es hm an in high s c h o o l , w e

t h a t t h e g i r l s c o u l d d o . A n d t h e y c o u l d d o a n y th i n g e l se bu t

had one nu n, Siste r M at t hias . And s he s eem ed t o p i c k o n m e

that.

cont inuo usly. On e tim e I hav e a dat e wit h m y s t ead y I w a s g oing ste ady wh en I was a f r es hm an. Can y ou im ag i n e t h a t ?

A G : S o d i d y o u e v e r w a n t t o b e a n y t h i n g o t he r t ha n a

I’m 13 yea rs o ld. An d Sam m y Kay was play ing in N o r f o l k ,

t e a c h e r?

N eb ras ka . And he ask ed m e if I could go t o Sam m y K a y . S o

K C : I d i d w a n t t o g o t o c o l l e g e , b u t w e c o u l d n ’ t a ffo r d i t.

anyw ay, I aske d my m om and dad and t hey s aid y e s . A n d s o

A n d n o , I w a n t e d t o b e a t e a c h e r . I t h i n k i t w a s m y c a l l i n g.

the next mo rnin g a fter t he we got hom e, which was p r o b a b l y early, be ca use I th ink t hat t hat s t ar t ed in Nor f olk , l i k e a t f o u r

A G : Ye a h , I t h i n k s o . D i d v e ry ma n y p e o p l e go t o c olle ge .

o’clock in th e a ftern oo n, and we got hom e and s he a s k e d

K C : O u t o f m y c l a s s , m a y b e s o m e o f t h e b o y s di d. W e h a ve

me t he ne xt mo rnin g, s he s ay s , “ Kat hleen” , I s aid “ w h a t ”

a b o u t t h e t h r e e t h a t w e n t t o t h e s e m i n a r y b u t th e n th e y a l l

she sa ys, “ Did you go t hat dance and nor f or k las t n i g h t ? ”

q u i t a f t e r t h e y w e n t f o r a w h i l e . A n d m o s t o f t h e bo ys w e n t

A nd I sa id “ Yes, Sister , I did. ” She s aid, “ Did y our m o m a n d

t o t h e s e r v i c e a n d t h e n w e n t t o s c h o o l . B u t I c a n ’ t e ve n th i n k

d ad know?” And I sa id “ y es t hey did. I wouldn’t hav e b e e n

o f a n y o f t h e g i r l s t h a t w e n t t o c o l l e g e . T h a t w asn ’ t r e a l l y a n

138

op t ion. You kn ow.

S h e w e n t o v e r t o t h e u n d e r t a k e r a n d s h e s a i d , “ th e r i n g t h a t M a r y h a s o n h e r f i n g e r i s n o t h e r s . I t ’ s m i n e . Bu t sh e

A G : Whe n y ou went t o t he Academ y, di d you st a y a t a

l o s t h e r w e d d i n g r i n g a n d I t h o u g h t s h e s h o u l d be w e a r i n g

b o ard ing house or di d you dr i ve i nt o t ow n each d a y ?

a r i n g . S o s h e t o o k i t o f f . T h e y t o o k i t o f f m y g r a n dm a a n d

K C: I s tayed. Th ey br ought m e int o s chool on M ond a y

S o p h i e s h e c a m e o v e r a n d p u t i t i n m y h a n d at th e a t th e

morning, a nd I sta ye d in s chool. The f ir s t y ear I s t a y e d a t

w a k e . ” A n d I h a d s o m e c o u s i n s t h a t d i d n ’ t l o o k ve r y h a ppy

Mrs. B ill Dun nin gs ho us e, and t hen s he was ex pect i n g s o

birthday.

she d idn’t wa nt to sta y in t he nex t y ear . So t hen I st a y e d w ith my gran dma , gra ndm ot her and m y gr eat aunt S o p h i e

A G : L o t s A l l ri g h t . Yo u s t a y e d w i t h h e r. I t h ink y ou

and their h ou se . Th ey liv ed on t he cor ner wher e J a c k i e

d e s e rv e i t .

V alasek’s ho use is, an d I s t ay ed t her e. They wer e v e r y o l d

Wh a t d i d y o u w e a r t o s c h o o l ?

country. T he y wo re th eir dr es s es down bet ween t he i r a n k l e s

K C : D r e s s e s , n o j e a n s w h a t s o e v e r . D r e s s e s , no sl a c ks

in their kne es an d brown s ock s and t hey wor e t heir h a i r u p

w h a t s o e v e r . A n d d r e s s e s w e r e d o w n b e t w e e n th e a n kl e s

in a b un . Both of th em wor e t heir hair back up in t h e b u n .

a n d t h e c h e e r l e a d i n g o u t f i t s w e h a d w e r e c l e ar e d o u t

A nd b u t my a un t So ph ie was an old m aid and m y gr a n d m a

b e t w e e n o u r k n e e s a n d h e r e . T h e y w e r e o n e pa ddl e w a s

had b e en marrie d a nd had t he t hr ee boy s and s he’s c a l l e d

g r e e n a n d o n e p a d d l e w a s w h i t e a n d w h e n w e tw i r l e d w e

Joe Willie- th at’s wha t s he called dad ins t ead of Bil l . J o e ,

s a w - w e t w i r l e d a l o t - a n d i t s h o w e d o u r u n d e r u n de r pa n ts.

William, Carl, a nd a d aught er Anna. And s he was v e r y , v e r y

A n d w e h a d l i k e a j u m p e r a n d i t w a s s h e e r s i l ky l o o ki n g

loving , ve ry lo vin g. She was quit e hef t y , pr obably h e f t i e r

material that we made our blouses out of it was really

than m yself, wh ich is quit e a bit hef t y . And s he us e d t o b e

r i d i c u l o u s t o l o o k b a c k o n n o w . B u t y o u k n o w th e 5 0 s l o o k,

nice to slee p with be caus e s he was s o war m . I nev e r s l e e p

w e w o r e l i t t l e s c a r v e s a r o u n d t h e i r n e c k o r l o ok a t F o n zi e

w ith her but I h ad my bes t f r iend in high s chool wa s P e g g y

a n d t h o s e o n T V . T h a t ’ s a b o u t w h a t w e d r e s s l i ke .

P ier. And sh e stayed t her e wit h us t oo. And we had a r o o m up st air s. W e were alw ay s t r y ing t o s neak in. Aunt S o p h i e

AG:

had abo ut fo ur o r five clock s t hat r ang Dong Dong D o n g .

KC: I taught school for a year out in District 20. There was

A nd th e y we re set a bout f iv e m inut es apar t . So if w e t r i e d t o

a s c h o o l h o u s e o n t h e c o r n e r a n d I t a u g h t t h e F r e n c h ki ds.

sneak in , we’d ge t in and one would be going of f a n d t h e n

A l l t h e F r e n c h k i d s . D a n n y J o e w a s a b o u t i n t h e se c o n d

the next o ne wou ld be going of f and t hen s he k new e x a c t l y

g r a d e . A n d h e w o u l d s a y h e c o u l d n ’ t d o s o m e th i n g. An d I’ d

w hat t ime we go t in b ecaus e s he’d her e us com e in . S h e

s a y w e l l , D a n , I g u e s s y o u d o n ’ t g e t y o u r b o wl o f so u p u n ti l

w asn’t a loving au nt a t all. But when Valent ine’s Da y c a m e ,

y o u g e t t h a t m a t h d o n e . A n d h e ’ d h a v e i t d o n e i n a bo u t tw o

I g ot gran dma little box of candy . And I got one f or S o p h i e

minutes because he was always hungry.

L e t ’s s e e , w h a t d i d y o u d o a f t e r h i g h sc hool?

too. A nd so wh en I ga v e gr andm a her s Sophie s aid , “O h hog w ash” , you kn ow, s he jus t t hought t hat was s illy . A n d I

AG:

said and “ Au nt Sophie I got one f or y ou t oo. ” And I p u t m y

H a h a ! k i n d o f f o rg e t a b o u t h i m.

arms arou nd he r, ga v e her a k is s and s he s t ar t ed c r y i n g .

Te l l me a b o u t y o u r f i rs t d a t e .

I d on’t thin k she ha d ev er been lov ed. And s he was v e r y ,

K C : O h c a n I c a n ’ t r e m e m b e r w h o m y f i r s t d a y w a s. W e

very, v ery, ve ry kind t o m e. W hen m y gr andm ot her d i e d .

p r o b a b l y j u s t w e n t t o t h e s h o w . T h a t w a s w e ha d th e

139

theat er he re a nd ha d a lot of s hows or could hav e b e e n

A G : Wh a t w a s i t l i k e b e i n g l i k e a h o u s e w i f e in t he 5 0 s ?

someb o dy to ta ke me hom e f r om a dance. Ther e ar e c e r t a i n

K C : H o u s e w i f e i n t h e 5 0 s w a s p r o b a b l y h a r d on w o m e n .

b oys t hat I c ou ldn ’t go wit h. M y dad s aid no. I coul d n ’ t g o

I d o n ’ t k n o w h o w … h o w I d i d i t . I l o o k b a c k a nd bu t

there th e boys fro m G r eeley or W olbach or Albion. I c o u l d

e v e r y b o d y e l s e w a s i n t h e s a m e b o a t . V e r o n i c a Ra y h a d a

g o wit h boys fro m Bar t let t . W hy Bar t let t ? I don’t k no w . B u t I

f l o c k o f k i d s , J u d e V a l a s e k h a d a w h o l e f l o c k of ki ds. W e

could n ’t go with a nybody f r om G r eeley , W olbach or A l b i o n .

u s e d t o s e t u p a t V e r o n i c a ’ s a n d d r i n k c o f f e e a n d sm o ke

E sp ecially W olbac h a nd I did hav e a boy f r iend f or a w h i l e

c i g a r e t t e s w h i l e t h e k i d s w e r e a l l p l a y i n g o u t s i de , fi gh ti n g

from Wolbac h. So W h oops .

o u t s i d e . A n d o u r j o b w a s t o d o t h e c o o k i n g , t he c l e a n i n g, t h e w a s h i n g , t h e l a w n w o r k , d i d a l l t h e m o w i n g o f th e l a w n .

A G : How did you m e et Pet e?

E v e r y t h i n g . A n d b e c a u s e t h e h u s b a n d w o u l d j ust m a ke th e

K C: I kne w Pe te a ll m y lif e. He went wit h m y r oom m a t e

m o n e y a n d t h e y c a m e h o m e a n d s i t i n t h a t c h a i r u n ti l yo u

P eg g y for a while an d t hen he went t o t he s er v ice. I w a s

get supper ready for him.

g oing with a no the r bo y at t hat t im e. And t hen when h e c a m e home fro m the se rvic e I was a s enior in high s choo l . A n d

A G : t o u g h e r t h a n me I w o u l d l a s t t h e d a y.

then 195 3 in Ja nu ary. He pick ed m e up on m y way h o m e

K C : We l l , P e t e n e v e r d i d g e t b e t t e r . I s t i l l s p o il e d h i m I

w alking ho me fro m so m ewher e- I don’t k now wher e- a n d

t h i n k . I l o v e t o d o t h e y a r d w o r k t h o u g h . I l o v e th a t. So i t w a s

just g a ve me a ride ho m e and I was a s enior in high s c h o o l .

g o o d t o j u s t g e t o u t o f t h e h o u s e a n d g o d o t h a t. I c o u l d

I w as 17 an d h e wa s 2 4. But m y f olk s appr ov ed t he f i l m I

c h e c k o n k i d s w h i l e t h e y w e r e o u t s i d e p l a y i n g . U n l e ss th e y

d on’t k no w. And we ju s t s t ar t ed going t oget her and t h e n

were in the house tearing that apart.

my 18th birthday. He gav e m e a diam ond. Yeah. An d w e w ere m arrie d th e n ext J une on m y m om and dad’s w e d d i n g

A G : D i d y o u a l w a y s l i v e h e re ?

annive rsa ry. So Jun e 30. Pat r ick was bor n t he nex t y e a r i n

K C : Wh e n w e f i r s t g o t m a r r i e d , w e l i v e d i n a n a pa r tm e n t

June an d Bill th e n ext O ct ober . I k ind of lov e it of f b e f o r e

a b o v e w h e r e t h e i c e c r e a m p l a c e w a s u p t h e r e u psta i r s o n e

Joe then . I ha d h ad a m is car r iage. And s o t her e wa s j u s t

o f t h o s e a p a r t m e n t s f o r a b o u t f o u r m o n t h s . A n d th e n th e y

a lull pe riod W hy didn’t get pr egnant t hen I don’t k n o w

moved in a two-room house. This was not this. There’s only

b ecause I didn ’t. And t hen I had J oe y ear lat er I ha d D o n

t w o r o o m s d i d n ’ t h a v e t h a t e i t h e r . J u s t t h a t o t he r pa r t o ve r

12 months late r, I ha d Ed 16 m ont hs lat er I had Dia n e , I h a d

t h e r e . T h e r e w a s j u s t t w o r o o m s . A n d w e h a v e a ba se m e n t

four childre n a nd Jo e had jus t t ur ned f iv e. O r was h e s t i l l

but we couldn’t get to the basement from inside. We had

four? He c ou ld h ave st ill been f our when I had Dian e .

t o g o o u t s i d e t o g e t t o t h e b a s e m e n t . T h e s t a i r s w a s th e r e .

B u t w e w e r e g o i n g t o b u i l d o v e r t h a t a n d d o s o m e th i n g I

A G : Whe n y ou wer e havi ng chi l dr en, w er e you t e a c h i n g

d o n ’ t k n o w w h a t w h i c h w e n e v e r d i d a t t h a t t i me . An d th e n

to o r we r e y ou jus t at hom e?

w h e n I g o t p r e g n a n t w i t h M a r y , P e t e s t a r t e d d i ggi n g th e

K C: N o, I didn’t start t eaching s chool unt il Diane w a s a b o u t

b a s e m e n t , t h e r e ’ s a b a s e m e n t u n d e r t h a t r o o m. H e sta r te d

five ye ars old an d in k inder gar t en. So ev er y body w a s g o n e

d i g g i n g a b a s e m e n t i n t o t h a t r o o m a n d w e b u i l t th a t pa r t o n

from t he ho use. An d s he cam e down f r om k inder ga r t e n a n d

a n d I t h o u g h t “M a n , w e g o t r e a l l y a b i g h o u s e .” W h e n I go t

stayed with Pete at th e s t or e unt il I got out of s cho o l .

p r e g n a n t w i t h B o b w e b u i l t t h i s p a r t . I f I w a n t e d m o r e h o u se I had to get pregnant!

140

k n o w i f a n y o f t h e m g o t t h r o u g h i n t o t h e U n i t e d Sta te s. I A G : Wha t wer e like dances at t he Col l ege I nn?

t h i n k t h e y d i d . I t h i n k s o m e p l a c e g o t b o m b e d o n c e e ve n i n

K C: Won de rful. I lo ve t o dance. And ev er y body ’s s a y i n g

N e b r a s k a b u t B u t i t w a s j u s t t o s p o t p l a n e s t h at w a s c o m i n g

w ell let’s go ou t an d h av e a beer . No, no, I want t o d a n c e . I

through.

w ant ed to da nc e a ll the t im e. And I was a good dan c e r .

A G : D i d t h e y j u s t s i t i n t h e i r c a r?

A G : Wha t kind of da nci ng w oul d you do?

K C : N o , t h e y h a v e a b u i l d i n g u p t h e r e . T h e y h a ve l i ttl e

K C: Oh , we did th e sides t ep. J us t r egular dances . S o m e o f

b u i l d i n g , w a t c h o u t b u i l d i n g a n d t h e y h a d b i n oc u l a r s a n d

the b oy s- th ere were s om e of t hem t hat could r eally p l a y t h e

a l l t h a t s t u f f . A n d t h e y ’ v e w a t c h e d f o r t h e p l a ne s c o m i n g

b oog ie woo gie an d you k now. And t her e was t her e w a s f u n

o v e r . D u r i n g t h a t t i m e , d u r i n g t h e C u b a n c r i s i s w a s ki n d o f

times ou t the re.

t h e o n e o f t h e w o r s t t i m e s w e h a d , t h a t I w a s re a l l y ki n d o f s c a r e d , b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e w a n t i n g t o b u i l d b o m b sh e l te r s.

A G : Do you r e m em b er w hat i t w as l i ke t he bui l di n g

A n d t h a t ’ s w h e n w e b u i l d o u r s t o r m s h e l t e r o u t th e r e . An d

itself?

I h a d e n o u g h w a t e r b o i l e d a n d t h e n b i g g a l l o n, ga l l o n j a r s.

K C: Y ea h, you ca me i n and t her e was a lunch s t and

A n d s a n i t i z e d w a t e r , I s a n i t i z e t h e j a r s a n d t h en fi l l th e m

there. An d th e girls bat hr oom was clear t o t he ot he r e n d

f u l l o f w a t e r , I p r o b a b l y h a d 1 0 g a l l o n m a d e u p so th a t i f

d ownsta irs. So if you had t o go t o t he bat hr oom , we h a v e t o

w e g o t i n t o a c r i s i s t h a t w e w o u l d h a v e s o m e t h i n g to dr i n k

come th rou gh give th em a t ick et , G et clear out acr o s s d a n c e

a n d w e h a v e e n o u g h f o o d , w e k e p t t h i n g s l i k e Spa gh e tti o s

hall – a nd the da nc e h all was quit e big. I t was bigg e r i n m y

a n d c a n n e d t h i n g s l i k e t h a t , a n d t u n a t h a t y o u c o u l d o pe n

house. T he floo r spot is bigger t han t his . And t her e w a s t h e y

a n d j u s t e a t t h a t y o u d i d n ’ t h a v e t o h e a t . B u t I h a d th e w e

have a stage fo r the bands t o be on. W e had liv e b a n d s , t h e

f i g u r e d t h e e l e c t r i c i t y w o u l d g o o u t . A n d w e h a ve l o ts o f

p layed, whic h wa s fu n. And t hen jus t by t he t im e m y k i d s g o t

c a n d l e s a n d l a m p s a n d t h i n g s l i k e t h a t . I s t i l l h a ve l a m ps

ab le t o go to da nc es. Pat I t hink Pat r ick ’s clas s , on e o f t h e i r

o u t h e r e t h a t I u s e w h e n t h e l i g h t s g o o u t . S o ve r y r e a l

classes h ad so me like hom ecom ing dance or s om e t h i n g

f e a r . I t w a s v e r y , v e r y r e a l . T h e k i d s d o h o w t o ge t u n de r

out there. Bu t the y didn’t do it again. Boy s k ind of g o t i n

t h e i r d e s k s i n c a s e o f a y o u k n o w , d u c k a n d c o ve r . W e h a d

troub le.

that storm cellar out here but was afraid rays would come t h r o u g h t h e d o o r o f t h e s t o r m c e l l a r . S o w e h a d a pl a n th a t

A G : Sta ndar d.

w e w o u l d t a k e o n e o f t h e m a t t r e s s e s o f f t h e t wi n be ds a n d

K C: Y ea h.

p u t i t o v e r t h a t s t o r m c e l l a r d o o r s o t h a t t h e r ays- th a t th e y c o u l d n ’ t t u r n c o r n e r s - b u t t h e y c o u l d j u s t c o m e str a i gh t

A G : So do you r e m em ber t he G r ound O bser vat i o n C o rp s

d o w n . Y o u k n o w . We h a d c l a s s e s f i r s t s e l f - s u r vi va l . I th i n k I

an d G OC Hill.

still got one of the books here.

K C: I c an reme mbe r it but m y s is t er Pat belonged to G O C .

A nd th e y wo uld go up t her e and s et up on t he hill o v e r n i g h t

A G : Ye a h , s o i n t e re s t i n g . Ye a h . D i d y o u s e e it wa s in t he

and w atc h fo r pla ne s t hat cam e acr os s t he Canadia n b o r d e r .

ma g a z i n e s a n d e v e ry t h i n g ?

That was whe re th ey f igur ed t hey wouldn’t be com in g f r o m

K C : We l l , y e a h . J o h n K e n n e d y w a s p r e s i d e n t a t th a t ti m e .

the north, c omin g a cr os s t he Canadian bor der . And I d o n ’ t

A n d a n d y e a h , h e w o u l d t a l k , y o u k n o w , a n d s ay, yo u kn o w ,

141

and it co uld hit a nywher e in t he Unit ed St at es beca u s e they can se nd bo mbs f r om Cuba ov er t o could hit F l o r i d a .

A nd one of th e re ason we wer e s o wor r ied was we h a d t h e S trat egic Air Comma nd in O m aha. W e f igur ed any t h i n g t h a t g ot hit by an ato mic b om b or any t hing lik e t hat wou l d c o m e from t he ea st, you kn ow, f r om O m aha t his way or L i n c o l n .

R ad iatio n.

A G : So whe n y ou wer e l i ke a young m ar r i ed cou p l e , wo u ld y ou ha ng out w i t h ot her m ar r i ed coupl es?

K C: Y es, we do o ur e nt er t ainm ent wit h Colet t e and E d a n d Mark and Eile en an d Pet e and I would get t oget her a t e a c h ot her’s h ou se s a nd we br ing our whole our k ids with u s I think t he y h ate d u s. T hey hav e us com e becaus e w e h a d s o many kids a nd the y ju s t hav e one or t wo y ou k now, C o l l e t t e just w ith just on e. An d Eileen only had t he, t he f our t h e r e ’ s b ut t hey wou ld play -M ar y and Cher y l wer e good f r i e n d s and , and the kids a ll play ed. And t hen when it got t o o l a t e , if t he kids we ren ’t asleep s om ewher e in t he f loor , w e w o u l d p lay later a nd pic k th em up and car r y t hem out . An d w e g o p lay cards at differe nt people’s hous es or els e we’d g o t o K ealy’s a nd pla y c ard s . W e did t hat a lot t oo.

A G : Whe n did y ou and Pet e, st ar t r unni ng t he t h e a t e r?

K C: Well, wh en Pe te w as 20, I t hink 28 y ear s old, h i s d a d d ied . An d so th e th ea t er was def init ely Pet e’s t o r un f r o m then on h im an d h is m ot her , s he was t o go up and s e l l ticket s . And the n a fter s he got t hr ough s elling t ick e t s , a n d everyth ing, sh e wo uld com e hom e and s t ay wit h t he k i d s , they cou ld go u p to the t heat er and wat ch t he s how a l i t t l e b it . Not very ofte n becaus e I ended up s elling popc o r n m o s t of t he time . And bu t lot s of t im es , our popcor n gir ls w e r e b ab ysitte rs bec au se we couldn’t go any wher e unt il t h e s h o w w as ov er like to the dances or any wher e els e. And s o w e hired a popco rn girls as baby s it t er s o when t hey go t t h r o u g h p op p ing po pc orn , the y would com e down her e and s i t w i t h the kids an d I wo uld hav e t hem in bed by t hem .

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APPENDIX C .4

interview Kitty Carlin A G : Hi The r es a, its good t o see you. Thank you s o mu c h

t r y i n g t o m a k e p e o p l e l a u g h , y o u k n o w . . A f t e r m y gr a n dpa

fo r tak ing the tim e to si t dow n w i t h m e!

died, she had to make her own living, and she would work

TK : Y a , n o problem. I’m happy t o help.

a t t h e t h e a t e r f o r h e r S i s t e r ’ s f a m i l y a s a p r o j e c ti o n i st.

S h e l o v e d w a t c h i n g t h e a c t r e s s e s i n t h e f i l m s o ve r a n d

A G : I ha d a few que st i ons about your Aunt Br i dg e t .

o v e r a n d w o u l d c o m e h o m e a n d p e r f o r m t h e s c e n e s fo r

I kn o w wer e ve r y y ou ng w hen she di ed, but do yo u

B r i d g e t a n d m y f a t h e r … I t h i n k B r i d g e t t o o k a f te r h e r i n

remem be r he r at a ll, or di d you dad have any st o ri e s

s o m e w a y s . I t h i n k s h e w a s k i n d o f a f r e e s p i r i t, bu t sh e

ab o u t her ?

s a w h o w m y g r a n d m a f e l t k i n d o f l i m i t e d i n s o m e w a ys, by

TK : Y a , I h ave o ne sli ght m em or y of her m ak ing m e a t o y

g e t t i n g m a r r i e d s o y o u n g a n d h a v i n g h e r a n d m y da d, I th i n k

p lane. T ha t pla ne is ver y s pecial t o m e t o t his day . Wh e n

B r i d g e t w a n t e d t o m a k e h e r o w n w a y i n t h e w or l d.

you told me you fou nd all of t hos e dr awings in t he h o u s e , I

Y o u k n o w , I h a v e a b o x o f o l d s t u f f , y o u ’ r e w e l c o m e to

w asn’t to o surprise d. Dad m us t hav e k ept t hem t hi s w h o l e

b o r r o w i t . I ’ l l s e n d i t t o y o u , a n d y o u c a n t a k e sc a n s o r

time. He alwa ys sa id his s is t er Br idget could m ak e o r f i x

whatever. Lots of old photos and videos.

anythin g, but I gue ss I nev er r eally k new. … . . She w a s v e r y sp ecial to my da d. He was v er y af f ect ed by her pass i n g .

A G : T h a t w o u l d b e g re a t ! T h a n k s s o mu c h .

A G : I ’ m sor r y to he ar t hat . I know your dad w as a p i l o t , d id h e tea ch Br idget how t o f l y?

TK : Y o u kn ow, I don ’t k now about t hat - I would as s u m e s o …

S he p ro ba bly ha ssled him unt il he com pr om is ed an d t a u g h t her how. I kn ow h e fe lt r es pons ible f or her acciden t i n s o m e w ays. I’m pretty su re it was his plane s he was f ly in g w h e n she d ied. I th ink it was s ev er al y ear s bef or e he f lew a g a i n.

A G : Wha t was the ir chi l dhood l i ke? Di d your dad t a l k ab o u t that a t all or ?

TK : I kno w the y h ad s om ewhat of a eccent r ic childh o o d .

Their moth er - my gra ndm ot her , was k ind of a m ode r n w oman for h er time . She want ed t o be a s t age act r e s s . O h she w as fun ny. Sh e w as alway s per f or m ing… Being g o o f y …

143

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