The B Side issue # 2 January/February 2023

The B Side

Issue 2

January/February 2023

Elizabeth Mary Songwriter Supreme

The B Side

Special points of interest:

• Page 4 Advertising Rates

• Page 8 Do’s and Don'ts of Co-writing

• Page 10 Cowboy Jack’s songwriting Tips

• Page 16 What Guitar Strings are the best

• Page 23 The Danger of creating an online fantasy world

• Page 31 Americana Radio-The Train

From the Publisher:

Welcome to the second edition of The B Side. It took a little longer this time to get this issue out and I apologize for that. Some family health emergencies, the holidays, and Joyce and I both came down with a terrible cold that put us back a couple of weeks, but here we are.

The cover story this month is the very talented and lovely Elizabeth Mary. A singer Songwriter out of Madison Wisconsin. Elizabeth has been making music, singing and playing for a few years in the Dubuque Iowa area before moving to Madison. Her songs are fantastically well written and arranged. She does solo jobs, a duo with Paull Schluter, and has her own band the Elizabeth Mary Band. She has won the prestigious Hodag music contest and has released CD’s and videos. Please make sure to check her live shows out and her YouTube channel. You won’t regret it!

Also in this issue are Bill Gempler a wonderfully talented drummer who has been playing live since he was a very young man. Bill’s story is quite interesting especially his varied career playing with Polka greats and Country and Rock bands. And hey Bill is quite a character in person and always has a smile on his face and story to tell you.

Jon Carroll is also featured in this issue. Jon has been in the business since the early 1970’s. He is a grammy winner, played in Mary Chapin Carpenter’s Band for over 25 years, and was at age 18 in the Starland Vocal Band which had the number one hit Afternoon Delight. Jon is still very active in recording, writing, and playing music along with his activism and social justice work.

John Carter Cash is our Producer of the Month for this issue. His work with his father and mother Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash speaks for itself. He owns Cash Cabin Studios in Nashville. John’s story is very interesting and his talent as a producer is top shelf.

With this issue I decided to write a story about the nicest person I ever knew, in fact she was known as the nicest person who ever lived in Belleville, Wisconsin Clara Francois or as we called her Grandma Clara. Clara was not my blood Grandma but she was surely a spiritual Grandma to me and many others in Belleville.

Also, this issue we have Litt Dubay, some guitar repair stories, and a tale of caution for all you folks who are striving to be Social Media influencers with your music career.

I hope you enjoy this issue and pass it on to folks you think would also enjoy it. Next issue is March 20, 2023. Have a great Valentines Day and hopefully we will have an early warm spring!

Andy & Joyce Ziehli

Advertising Rates for the B Side

All prices are per issue. If you would like to have an ad run in multiple issues below are the rates:

Full Page for up to three issues

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Quarter Page for three issues

Page Sponsorship for three issues

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Business Card for three issues

$225.00 for three issues total

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Announcements !!!

Looking for writers and contributors!!!

We are always looking for folks who want to write, take photos, conduct interviews, and help with getting the B Side out to the world. If you would like to do any of the above please reach out to us. You don’t need any experience to join us here at the B Side. We believe in on the job training and learning!!! That’s how we started oh so many years ago. All you need is a love to write and tell folks about your love of songwriting, guitars, and recording. We can help find folks to interview and we can help facilitate getting everything setup for you. We have no age barrier or skill level for folks who want to write.

Future projects include a Podcast and weekly radio show for the B Side.

If you have a CD, book, or song you would like reviewed please send them to:

Andy Ziehli

Box 71

Belleville, WI 53508

We will review them in the next issue after we receive them.

Check out HomeGrown in 2023

Saturday February 11, 2023

Sugar River Lanes

Belleville, WI

7:00 10:30 p.m.

Homegrown is a five-piece band out of Belleville, WI. They started out 45 years ago playing music in Southern Wisconsin. Back then they were a cover band playing Eagles, Doobie Brothers, Outlaws, Marshall Tucker Band music. As everyday life and life changes happen, they drifted away from each other playing in different bands and solo gigs and moving to different areas of the Midwest.

As luck would have it, they were able to reconnect in 2019. They came together to write original music and record some song demos. The guys had so much fun playing together again that they decided to re-brand themselves as Homegrown and venture out to play a few shows a year.

Homegrown is made-up of:

Andy Chicks lead vocals and 12 string guitar

Darren Chicks lead vocals and rhythm guitar/harmonica

John Fahey lead vocals and bass guitar

Dennis Murphy lead vocals and percussion/drums

Andy Ziehli lead guitar and mandolin

They continue to write and record their brand of Country-Rock/Americana original music which has become a huge part of their shows. The Homegrown Show is made up of 60% original music and the rest is cover tunes by Eagles, Doobie Brothers, Ozark Mt. Daredevils, along with Turnpike Troubadours, Cross Canadian Ragweed, and Jayhawks tunes.

You can catch Home Grown this summer at the Dirty Dog Tap Haus in New Glarus in May, July, and September.

Elizabeth Mary, One of the Best Singer Songwriters You’ll Ever Hear

What started the drive in you to become a singer songwriter?

E.M. Music has been a constant in my whole life. I started writing at ten years old. I have notebooks and journals of songs I have written over all these years. I started studying songwriting and kept at it and it just elevated from there.

How did you know that it was the right career for you to focus on?

E.M. At twenty-two years old an audition came up for an 80’s-90’s rock cover band Zero 2 Sixty and I tried out. I got the job and played with them for eight years. We had a great following! The band split up in 2018 and I concentrated on my songwriting. I recorded a single first EP and released my first single. A local Country station in Dubuque played the song and it really took off. I made a leap of faith, and quit my job to start playing and songwriting as my career.

Is songwriting hard for you to do, or do the songs flow freely when you write?

E.M. Every song is different. I am not the type of writer to write Nashville style where you sit in a room from 9:00 to 5:00 and crank out tunes. I am not a production line writer. Every song is organic and comes at its own pace. There are no rules to songwriting. My music seems to tug on heartstrings and brings people into the song. Those types of songs take some time to develop and come to life.

Songwriting, performing, or recording. Rank them in what you like doing best.

E.M. I love recording and watching a song grow from lyrics and acoustic guitar into a full-blown song with other instruments and vocals. I love performing the best though. I play 150 jobs a year. Every show is different, and so is every crowd. You cannot deny the thrill of being on stage and the crowd really getting into your music.

I was really scared the first time I preformed solo. I was a closet guitar player. I had had other musicians play guitar for me and I got burned by them. So, I sat down and worked on becoming

a better guitar player so I could accompany myself and did not need those other musicians to help me put on a show. I’m proud of myself that I’m able to support myself playing guitar and support myself with my music.

Since moving to Madison have you found the local music community welcoming, and how does it compare to the music scene in Iowa?

E.M. I was incredibly surprised moving to Madison. In fact, I was blown away by how welcoming it was here. In Iowa I was well known. There were pictures of me on the sides of buses in Dubuque. My music was played on local radio a lot. I had a lot of great opportunities to play and open for well known acts, so coming here I really had to start over in a sense. The local clubs, wineries, bars have all been incredibly open to me and my music. The people that come out to hear music are so nice and welcoming too. It has been a very good move for me.

Do you see a tour in your future?

E.M. We have been talking about it a lot lately. My band is really starting to gel and rock more. Social Media has helped my music reach more people with great results. I mostly do my own booking, so I have more control of my career at this point. So, a tour could happen if things keep going and growing at this pace.

What songwriter inspires you?

E.M. Kasey Musgrave is one of my musical heroes. She is so descriptive in her writing. I like Elle King a lot too. Really any songwriter that writes and performs their own material I respect and am inspired by.

What is the best and worst part of being a fulltime musician at the level you are performing at?

E.M. The best is being able to wake up and make a living at something I love doing. Being able to create your own reality and connect with people like I do. They let you know how you are doing, and their feedback really helps to make you a better performer and writer. The worst is the work life balance that we all face. It is hard to do. Being a new mom on top of the music career is a balancing act. I am booked out until December 2023, so when things come up with being a mom I must work around those items and put in my time being a performer. I have learned to work smarter not harder. It is tough but I love both jobs!

If you could perform with anyone dead or alive, who would it be and why?

E.M. Reba McEntire back in the 90’s for sure. Jody Messina and Sara Evans too. Today I would love to perform with Kasey Musgraves.

Are there any plans for a new recording in 2023?

E.M. Singles for sure. I have two more scheduled to come out starting in the spring of 2023. I have a new album scheduled to come out in early 2024

How important is social media to your career and why?

E.M. Social media drives my career! The pandemic was devastating to me and every other singer songwriter and out there trying to make a living. I produced a virtual show idea called Sweatpants and Wine where I would do online performances. I did this every Tuesday in 2020. I was extremely fortunate that I had over 36,000 viewers on my first virtual show. Having close to 10,000 Facebook followers helps. I promote my concerts

using social media. I own my own clothing line where I design a line of clothes for women featuring my lyrics and song titles. I am now an author of a children’s book. Both my clothing line and book are sold on my website. Social Media is a blessing and a curse. If you understand the rules and how it all works it can help you be very successful, but if you don’t understand it and don’t stay on top of it, it can hurt you in the end.

What inspires you the most to be a songwriter and performer?

E.M. Seeing that I am making a difference with my music. It pushed me to be vulnerable. I had an ICU Nurse reach out to be who loves my song Breathe in Girl. She told me the story of how she played it for the covid unit, and it was the last song many of them heard. It was so touching to hear that. When your music speaks for itself, you know that you are on the right track. That is inspiration at the highest level. Connecting with people and having your music be part of their lives is such a great compliment as a songwriter and a performer.

I am blessed to be able to have a job that I love doing and that I am making a difference in people’s lives. Being a mom is beyond explanation in happiness and inspiration. Having all of these is a dream come true. It’s a long way from an Iowa farm girl singing to the cows to performing on large stages and festivals. I hope with hard work and luck my career will only grow and have more positivity in the future!

Thank you, Elizabeth Mary, for the wonderful conversation and look into your life. Videos

Five Characteristics of Folk Rock Music

1. Electric instruments and five piece drum kits.

2. Emphasis on lyrics.

3. Songs based on diatonic harmony.

4. Rock & Roll grooves mixed with folk traditions.

5. Melodic singing with frequent vocal harmonies.

The Do’s and Don’ts of co-writing

Do’s

Discuss percentages in advance.

Decide in advance if you’re going to bring ideas or start “cold.”

Show up on time and ready to work

Make a plan on how you’ll both promote the song.

Don’ts

Don’t criticize a co-writer’s suggestion.

Don’t insist on one of your ideas if your co-writer doesn’t seem interested in it.

Don’t edit too harshly early on in the session.

Don’t push too hard to collaborate with a more established/successful songwriter.

Cliff Goldmacher is a songwriter, producer, session musician, engineer, author and owner of recording studios in Nashville, TN and Sonoma, CA. Cliff’s site, http://www.EducatedSongwriter.com, is full of resources for the aspiring songwriter, and his company, http://www.NashvilleStudioLive.com, provides songwriters outside of Nashville with virtual access to Nashville’s best session musicians and singers for their songwriting demos.

The B Side Statement of Benefits

The B Side is a music-focused publication founded on the principal of providing up to date technical, news worthy, concise, accurate, and historical information to our readers. Articles and columns will focus on :

 Guitar Repair

 Songwriting

 Recording

 Music Business

 Production

The written record of stories, interviews, technical information, is for the enjoyment of our readers and sponsors.

We are working to create and bring together a community of individuals to increase, enlighten, and spring board new ideas, artists, and tools to a wider and more diverse group of people.

We are not political motivated, nor are we religiously based in our writings and information presented. We do not discriminate in any form of our coverage of stories/ interviews. We are solely based on providing timely/accurate information through our writings.

Key points of interest

 Accurate up to date information

 Wide scope of artists covered

Electric Bouzouki proto type . 1960’s Kay Body with handmade neck. Squire Stratocaster pickups.

Cowboy Jack’s Songwriting Tips

Remember experts are often wrong.

Experts tend to be narrow and opinionated.

Experts don’t buy records.

There’s nothing wrong with waltzes if they are played right.

A good song gets better with age.

Reveal some of yourself with most of your songs.

Don’t get stuck on one song too long. Work on Others as you go.

Learn to grow from setbacks, delays, and getting your feelings hurt.

Write the worst song you can think of.

Write the best song you can think of.

Litt Dubay: Smokeifyougot’em!!!

Litt Dubay is an award winning producer and author. He has written articles for Rolling Rock Magazine, Upbeat and Player Guitar magazines. He is a 12 times 2 Jammie award winner as Producer of the Year. The man knows his shit!!!

Litt Dubay’s Rules for life

I. Don’t ever trust a man who wears clogs.

II. If it don’t smell good don’t eat it.

III. If it looks too good to be true it’s probably underage.

IV. If the guy in the urinal next to you is peeing purple run. He’s a Werewolf.

V. Pressed coffee is not as good as drip coffee.

VI. It’s better to be pissed off instead of pissed on.

VII. Marrying your third cousin is legal.

VIII. Eggplant does not taste like chicken.

IX. There is no separate room in heaven for each religion. You’re all in the same pot.

X.Graduating from the UW Madison does not make you better than anyone else.

XI. Orange popsicles rule.

XII. Masturbation does not cause blindness, but it can cause chafing.

XIII. Wearing a Nehru shirt does not make you a commie.

XIV. Toe fungus is a badge of honor.

XV. Bluegrass music is just Celtic music sped up.

XVI. If we were created in God’s own image he must be fat.

Rodney Crowell’s It Starts with a Song - A Dreamcatcher Event

By Jonathon Robinson

Earlier this year a friend of mine asked if I would be interested in attending a songwriting seminar in Nashville that was put on by Rodney Crowell. I said absolutely and he signed us up to do an event through Dreamcatcher called Rodney Crowell’s It Starts with a Song. There was an absolute all-star cast of writers who were to be involved, including Rosanne Cash, Beth Nielsen-Chapman, Mike Reid, Matraca Berg, and David Baerwald, just to name a few. I’d done quite a few songwriter events through NSAI in Nashville previously, but even so, I didn’t really know what to expect. It ended up being a fantastic experience and one I’d recommend to almost anyone looking to be inspired as a writer themselves or to get a peek behind the curtain of some of the most successful musicians and songwriters around.

In the mornings we’d all meet (about 300 campers) in a room for a Master Class with Rodney himself, and he'd usually be joined by one or more of the other songwriters. There were lots of times when all the instructors would be lined up across the stage to share songs, stories and tips on the creative process, and even these times and what essentially turned into mini concerts would have been worth the trip in my estimation. Lera Lynn, one of the youngest instructors and a great songwriter and performer in her own right, really stood out in a lot of these performances and proved why she deserved a spot in the pantheon of instructors. I really enjoyed hearing Joe Henry’s take on seeking the Muse and channeling songs, and the fact that there were such varying thoughts about the writing process really made you feel that it was ok to find your own path amongst the tried and true methods of crafting a song. For example, Mike Reid who’s written songs for Bonnie Raitt among others, had a very mundane hard work approach to writing, while the aforementioned Joe Henry, who’s written for the likes of Madonna, had and almost esoteric spiritual approach, but in both men you could see how much importance they placed on being consistent and showing up to write every day. These were really valuable times and felt way more intimate than you’d imagine for an audience of 300.

After and between those large gatherings, there were breakout sessions with all of the different teachers where the focus was mostly on song critiques. We’d have a smaller group of maybe 20 campers, and we’d go to one of the instructors assigned classes (we were meeting on the campus of the Scarritt Bennett Center right on Music Row in Nashville) and as many as time allowed would play a song for our instructor and then he or she would give us suggestions as to what worked and maybe what didn’t. I got to play one of my songs for Matraca Berg, writer of You and Tequila, and get feedback from her, which was a great experience.

Lunch was provided in the cafeteria every day and the instructors always joined us which was a way to get extra time to talk with them. Also, and in my opinion this was one

of the coolest things, between classes on the campus there were almost always impromptu song circles and jams outside, and even Rodney himself joined in on more than one occasion. These were ridiculously fun times and added to the sense of comradery among everyone attending. At night there were concerts put on by various members of the faculty. Rosanne Cash was amazing. She also gave a fantastic interview with Rodney and shared some really deep insights into the music industry, her life with a famous father, dealing with fame, and just some fantastic stories, among other things. Rosanne interviewed Neko Case as well, and then Neko put on one of the evening shows before heading out on tour with her band.

After the shows every night there were opportunities for the attendees to perform their own original songs at open mics, and these were also a ton of fun with a really great atmosphere. The performances ranged from folks who had never played a song in public before to seasoned performers with impressive catalogs of their own. The instructors were gracious enough to hang out for some of these as well.

The full list of faculty included Rodney Crowell, Rosanne Cash, Beth Nielsen-Chapman, Mike Reid, David Baerwald, Joe Henry, Matraca Berg, Lera Lynn, Tony Brown, Paul Worley, and John Estes. These folks are all at the top of their particular worlds and worth looking into if you’re interested in writing, producing, or the music business in general. As far as Rodney Crowell’s It Starts With A Song, it was a fantastic experience and I’d recommend it to anyone who has the chance to attend. It was a great way to be inspired, learn about the craft of writing songs, network with like-minded individuals, and it was just a lot of fun if you enjoy music. Thanks so much to Rodney for putting it all together and being such a fantastic host!

Grandma Clara, the Nicest Person in Town

The nicest person that I have ever known was Grandma Clara Francois! She was the sweetest, kindest, person you would ever want to know. She wasn’t really my grandma, but I called her grandma when I was small because my two buddies Rick and Ed Francois were her grandchildren and I hung out with them. She never minded me calling her grandma and neither did her husband J.C. mind if I called him Grandpa.

There are so many people in ones life that come and go, and fewer who stay connected to you for your whole life. Grandma Clara was one of those folks who stayed connected and was at every major milestone of my life. My connection to Clara came long before I was born, when my mom moved to Belleville in 1950. She became friends with Joan Francois Clara’s oldest daughter. My mom and Joan remain close friends to this day. When my mom got married in 1956 Clara gave my mom all the flowers for her wedding. When I came along in December of 1957 Clara was one of the first people I met.

Clara Naef was born on December 1, 1903, to Resina and Ulrich Naef. They had three children, Werner who died of diphtheria at the age of seven and Clara and Martha. Ulrich was cheesemaker and a musician playing the harmonica and zither. When he would make cheese, he would yodels and sing. Clara told stories of growing up in the Belleville area and going to barn dances when she was very young. She told of riding in a sleigh cutter with her parents in the wintertime and how the lights and snow looked so beautiful. When Clara was five years old she was visiting an aunt and uncle in Paoli. They took her on a buggy ride into Bellville. She remembered it being a warm evening and how Belleville sounded like such and interesting place to visit. Clara told how she enjoyed the ride and all the wildlife she saw on the way. The fields of clover, farm animals, and a very big dog were also part of the local scenery. The dog ran along the buggy most of the way to Belleville. Clara remembered too how the Sugar River looked so pretty gently flowing in to Belleville. As they crossed the river bridge Clara saw a wonderfully beautiful fountain in the middle of the park. She was mesmerized by the sight and the sounds of the water splashing. This image stayed in her mind from 1908 until 1986 when Clara donated the money to have the fountain rebuilt to its original state for a whole new generation to enjoy.

After graduating college Clara became a teacher, she married J.C. who was an Ag. Engineer and moved to

Milwaukee then Madison where J.C. was an airplane mechanic for Morey aviation. They soon moved to Belleville where they started a family. And had first three boys Rich, Paul, and Carleton. Carleton developed leukemia and died at age five. It was extremely hard on Clara and J.C. they soon added to the family with Joan, Dave, Ray, and Lois. In 1931 J.C. established an oil and gas business that is still in operation today.

I grew up in Belleville and I have never heard anyone say a bad word about Clara Francois, but I have heard many times people say that Clara is the nicest person that they have ever met or known. Clara was not large in height barely five feet tall. She was not a political figure or an athlete the way we judge someone’s success or worth. What Clara was large in kindness, love, and family. She touched so many people during her lifetime with her sharing and attention to others needs. For a while when I was younger, we lived in a house that was next door to Rich and Monica Francois and in the backyard of J.C.’s and Clara’s, so going to visit them was an easy task for a short-legged fellow. She would always have cookies for us kids and we would sit at the kitchen table and eat cookies and listen to stories she would tell.

Throughout my life Clara was always involved. She came to my High School graduation, Joyce and my wedding, our 10th and 25th wedding anniversary parties, my graduation from Grad School, and my grandparents’ funerals, along with all my siblings’ big events. Clara made handmade doilies, and wash cloths as gifts for us. We would see her every week at 5:00 o’clock mass. In bad weather we would give her a ride home or Joyce would walk with her to her house so she would not fall. She was always kind and happy to see us. I cried the day she passed away. It was an incredibly sad day for the whole town. Clara was with J.C. again, but we were here in Belleville without the nicest person in the town.

Clara truly cared for people, and she was such a force in humility and friendliness in Belleville. Clara and J.C. made a life for themselves and their family by working hard and giving back to the community which is still an honorable tradition carried out by their grandchildren and great grandchildren today. Volunteerism and giving back is a hallmark of the Francois Family. Their family has produced, teachers, doctors, nurses, mechanics, businesspeople, engineers, musicians, and artists. A legacy that anyone would be proud of. Clara would be most proud of the fact that her family was healthy, happy, and giving help to those around them that need it.

I still think of her quite often. How she touched so many people with her kindness and generosity. How she never I mean ever said a bad word about anyone. She was a home maker, business owners wife, mother, and a role I think she cherished the most grandma to so many of us. In a world of bad actors, nasty politicians, haters, and cruel people we need more Grandma Clara’s. I know my life is better for having known and been loved by Grandma Clara.

What Guitar Strings are the Best?

This is a question that I get asked a lot by customers. What string company makes the best strings for the money? Well that’s a tuff question to answer. First what does it mean to be the best? Longest lasting, best tone, brightness, strength, ability to stay in tune when whammy bared to extinction, cost, reliability, the questions go on and on!

Over the years I have used many different types and gauges of guitar strings. I have found some to be adequate, others poor, and a couple superior to all others. What I base my choices on for the “best” and strings I recommend and use in my shop are as follows:

Tone ( how long they sound great before string changes)

Strength ( how long they last after being bent)

Cost ( the most expensive is not always the best)

Fret wear ( yes strings make a difference on how long your frets last)

Reliability ( that I never have to worry about the quality of the strings from package to package)

Now I have customers that are particular on what goes on their guitars just like people are particular about what oil goes in their cars, so I keep a few different brands of guitar, bass, mandolin, and banjo strings on hand. It is interesting to see that many of my customers use the same gauge strings and brands on all their guitars while others mix-up the gauges and brands on each guitar. I have customers who tell me that they can tell the difference in strings of the same gauge just by the feel. Others tell me that certain brands don’t sound good on their guitars. So the choice is really up to you and your experience with different brands and different gauges of strings.

Here are some of my customer’s favorite brands and gauges:

•Martin M140 80/20 Bronze Acoustic Guitar Strings Light 12-54

•Ernie Ball 2223 Super Slinky Nickel Wound Electric Strings

•GHS M3045 Bass Boomers Round wound Long Scale Medium Electric Bass Strings

• Addario EJ16-12P Phosphor Bronze Light Acoustic Guitar String

•Addario EXL110 Nickel Wound Light Electric Strings

•Addario EJ16 Phosphor Bronze Light Acoustic Strings

• Addario EXL125 Nickel Wound Super Light Top/Regular Bottom Electric Strings

All of these are quality strings that are affordable and that are easy to find in most stores.

My choice for strings that I put on guitars for repairs and my own collection are D’Addario strings. I use them on all my guitars and have since 1979. They last for a good 30 days with my kind of schedule of playing (in the day 6-8 nights a month). I install them on all guitars that come in for repairs unless a different brand is specified. They cause minimal fret wear, have fantastic tone, don’t lose their tune, and I have only had 4 strings break on my guitars playing in the last 39 years. That in itself speaks volumes for the quality and strength for the D’Addario Company.

So the next time you are looking to change it up and try new guitar strings think about checking out the strings I wrote about here. You may find a new brand enhances your playing and your sound!

What is the correct string height, how much action do I need?

Players always want the string height on their guitars to be setup so that it is easy to play, and so that they don’t have to push down on the strings so hard. The problem with super low string height is that it is harder to keep your guitar from fret buzzes, and you lose string tone. My mentor and guitar repair guru Ray Kentner always used to yell at me and tell me “to quit being a baby and grow some callous instead of having such low string height.” If you are strictly playing rhythm guitar a lower string height is probably okay, but if you are picking leads out you want a little higher action on your neck.

When a guitar comes from a factory it is generally setup to

factory specs. That means for a Fender the string height at the 12th fret is 5/64 at the 17th fret on the bass side and 4/64 on the treble side. This usually means at the 12th fret where I take the string height it is about 7/64 on the bass side. I setup all my guitars to 5/64 at the 12th fret on the bass side and between 5/64 and 4/64 on the treble side depending on the guitar. I do the same on my Epiphone's and others. I find this to be the perfect setup for the style I play. I always ask my clients how they want their guitars to play and setup accordingly.

There is no “perfect” setup for everyone. It all really depends on the style of music you play, the kind of guitar you use, the gauge strings you play, and the radius of your guitar neck. Different radius requires different

string height for maximum play ability and tone.

You will be amazed how just a small height adjustment can improve your playing ability, and the sustain you get from the notes you are playing.

Kaplin Six Lap Steel Guitars

The pride and joy of Woodshed Productions are our Kaplin Six lap steel guitars with benders B & G hand benders on them. These unique instruments were inspired by multi-instrumentalist Fats Kaplin. If you are interested in one of these super fine instruments please get a hold of me at 608-558-8131 or aziehli@yahoo.com

Jug Prairie before they became Amber Skies !

The late great Peter Cooper in Madison in 2008.

Producers Corner

This months Producers corner is John Carter Cash. John Carter needs no introduction, so here we go!

John Carter Cash is one of Nashville’s premier recording studio owners, engineers, and producers. Located at Cash Cabin Studios in Hendersonville he operates a full-service studio built in a log cabin. The studio started out as a one room sanctuary, for his dad to record and create music. From their website “The Cash Cabin Studio is a private recording studio with an astounding history. Not only did Johnny and June Carter Cash record most all their later music here, but many other talented musicians and famous entertainers have made music within these walls.

Johnny Cash built the original cabin in 1978. It was then, as it is now, a place to find solace and make music. However, the idea of it being a studio did not arrive for some years. In 1993, while in production for the first of AMERICAN RECORDINGS CD’s, produced by Rick Rubin, Johnny had recording gear installed.

Through the years, a spacious recording room, booths, and a comfortable mixing room were installed. Now the Cash Cabin Studio is a state of the art recording studio. The CABIN also has a natural reverb chamber, which offers its unique sound to the recordings made here. The studio is now owned and operated by John Carter Cash. It sits on forty-acres of woods and fields.

I talked in length with John Carter about recording music and life as a studio owner and mutual friend Bill Miller .

What made you want to own a recording studio?

Well I have always been involved in music my entire life. I remember my first recording experience in the early 80’s with Chip Momani. It was very exciting for me to get into the studio and see how everything came together. Then in the early 1990’s my father started working in the Cabin here in the woods, I started doing the same thing here recording my demos. So, in 92-93 I started recording music. It was during that time period I really grew to love music. At that time, I made the decision that I wanted to work in the music industry

as a producer and own a recording studio. The studio at that time was just a one room cabin. My father was making the American series records then and my mother was recording here last two records which I got to co-produce. The gear for those sessions with my mother was brought in by my co-producer J.J. Blair. I worked together with him the first time on that project.

It was after that, that we kept making music in the cabin. Over half of the American series recordings were done here. The year that my father passed away he had an addition built on with two booths and a room. After he passed away I added on a console room and a natural reverb chamber and a few other things. It has been a twenty-five year process becoming the studio we are now. I’ve worked with my engineer Chuck Turner and my assistant Trey Call for many years. Chuck was one of the first and is one of the most fluent Pro Tools users in Nashville. He was the go to guy when Pro Tools first came to town. His expertise have made him respected and indispensable to many of Nashville’s great producers through the years. Working with him is amazing. He keeps up on the learning curve, so we are always up to date on technology. We are a Pro Tools digital studio with an analog heart and lots of analog gear.

What have been some of your favorite projects over the years?

Well Loretta Lynn has been a momentous project. My wife Ana Cristina Cash is a wonderful artist. She is from Miami and first sang professionally in the

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Continued from page 20 language. She recorded an album for Sony that was released a few years ago. She is my number favorite all around singer. She has a new release coming out very soon and will be available on line. Chris Cornell, Billy Joe Shaver, Jamey Johnson and Marty Stuart come to mind as other magical sessions.

How do you pick which artist you work with?

\Oh, man by the heart. I look them in the eye, shake their hand, and listen to the music. If the feeling is not their I don’t work with them. To me production is about letting the artist be who they are. Let them follow their heart and put their best in the recording. I record the band with the artist in the vocal booth when at all possible. We record as much as we can live. It is more important for me to know what not to say than it is to know what to say. Every producer has their own style. I modify mine to each situation and artist. I follow my heart.

Do you get approached by artists out of the blue to work with them or is there a specific way you gather projects?

Intuition, reputation and investigation. It is just one or all of them, but first is always intuition.

Do you ever play on the artists recording?

I do some playing. I hire myself if I think I’m the right person for the job. It’s seldom that I get hired! (laughs) If I know there is another musician down the street who is the best person for that part I’ll give them a call.

Do you do any work with video or film scoring in the studio?

I have done some. There’s a Johnny Cash documentary coming out now. We’re not scoring the film, but we are doing the soundtrack for it. I am working on a film right now that is mine called Dragon Song which is a short film, we are doing. There is a trailer on YouTube right know. I have done scoring on films through the years.

Do you enjoy film work more than recording music for CD’s?

I love it all. I just love creativity. I just finished a Cook Book that is now out in print. I’ve got six published books to my name. I have a very diverse sense of creativity that I am involved in. So, I keep very busy.

How do you sleep with all that work?

That’s the question! (laughs) My mother and father had a work ethic and they just kept going creatively, and so do I.

So, what do you see for the future of the studio? Any additional space?

We’ll see what happens. It all depends on necessity and what happens with our work load. Now there are no plans for additions. I feel that I have the perfect space.

What’s the worst experience that has ever happened to you in the studio?

I got in an argument with a musician once in my career. That’s all I’m ever gonna say. (laughs) Once!

What’s the best thing that ever happened in the studio?

I met my wife and recorded her for the first time.

It would be hard to beat that one!

Yea it would!

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Continued from page 21

How does one go about setting studio rates?

Studio rates are based upon demand and availability. You need to stay within the range of your Competition. I don’t compete with anybody. I do what I want because we are a private recording studio so that gives me flexibility. There is a science to it based on gear costs and overhead plus salaries. Another factor is based on location and history of the studio. Hourly or project rates depends again on who it is and what is involved. It really depends on each unique recording environment and project. I guess I would say starting out an hourly rate with a minimum amount of time is a good place to start.

What is the one “dream” piece of gear you would love to have?”

I’d like to have an old NEVE counsel. I would like to have 1073 24 tracks, but I don’t have to have it.

Here’s something that I learned working with master artists. It’s not having the greatest mic in the world and it’s not having the best recording gear in the world to get the best recording. It’s having a Loretta Lynn or Johnny Cash or Ana Cristina Cash in front of the microphone. It’s the talent of the artists and the quality of the songs that make a recording. The microphone is just the tool. I have an engineering friend and I asked him what is favorite mic was. He said those

black ones you can hammer nails in with. (laughs). He meant a Sure 57. It’s one of the best mics ever built and it’s a hundred bucks!

It does the job.

So, as we wrap this up what advice would you give to someone who wants to start their own recording studio today?

Get a microphone and a recording system and sit in front of it and start recording yourself and your

friends. No matter what that system is if it’s an iPhone or DAW or a small recording device that does not cost a lot of money just use it, until you get proficient on it. It does not have to sound great to get started.

Just apply and apply and work at it. The more you learn the better you will be. I just started working and

I got better the more I did. That’s what you have to do.

What would you like our readers to know about you that we did not cover?

Hey I’m good. You got it all! (laughs)

You can check out Cash Cabin Studio at https:// www.cashcabinenterprises.com/

John Carter Cash johncarter@cash.com/cabin https://johncartercash.com/cabin/

The danger of creating an on line fantasy world

In today’s heavy social media world, it’s easy to create a world of fantasy. Caught up in having thousands of friends, followers, tweets, and whatever else they are called and judged by today one can create a world of self-wonder where all your songs are great, your images are loved, you are beautiful, and you have the best band in the world. The truth of the matter in this fantasy world is that you as an artist/band lose focus and perspective of how you fit in the real world of music and entertainment. You are only getting feedback from a small group of hanger ons or as they used to call them groupies and fans. Their clinging to you today because most likely they were feeding off some other poor fool last week. These remora, (family Echeneidae), also called shark sucker or suckerfish, will worship you and tell you that you are great, even the best in the whole world because they need a place or person to be attached to for their own selfpreservation. You have become the Kings new clothes story only in music. Soon you are posting selfies and pictures of a person or act that you are imitating to be because of these remora’s bull shit advice and compliments. You strive for more friends and followers basing your whole life on a number of people who really only exist in an electronic world. These thousands of followers don’t come to your shows, buy your merch, or music. The remora’s that are following you are only here until they find a fatter juicer shark to hang with. You have spent your career on becoming what pleases them instead of what you could be. With their constant praise and crap, you work only to please them and reach a larger group of remora’s just like them excluding the real markets you can reach and the real fans that could and would appreciate your music. These remoras tell you what you want to hear not what you need to hear to improve and climb the ladder of musical success.

If you want the truth about your music and how it can reach the folks that will buy it you need to throw away these remora and start expanding your world both with real honest to goodness fans and industry contacts. Get your music out there to different crowds and groups of people. Play jobs out of your current area of influence and see how your show goes over. Take constructive criticism from people in the know. Go back to the drawing board and reinvent the parts of your music and show that need it. Don’t imitate anyone! The Beatles are gone, Kiss is retired, Waylon is dead, and there will only be one Lady Ga Ga. Be yourself because that is what gets you fans and followers. And finally, don’t believe all the “marketing” that you create about yourself and distribute. Remember you created it and spewed it out yourself! The lies and tall tales you put into print and on the web will come back to haunt you someday very soon when you must put up or shut up in public and are judged by your peers not the remora.

Drumming his way to his own beat, Bill Gempler

I first saw Bill Gempler drum in 1971 when the Monticello Pep Band came to play a show at our High School. I was really impressed with the fact they had a drummer with a full drum kit in their Pep Band and we only had a snare drum, bass drum, and a cymbal. He could really play the drums! The next time I saw Bill was in the late 70’s playing drums for the Hard Times Band. They were the shit back then. A 6piece Country-Rock/Outlaw Country band out of Monroe Wisconsin. They were the band that I idolized. They played everything from Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, David Allan Coe, Marshall Tucker Band, and the Outlaws out of Tampa Florida. Dual lead guitars, bass, a very carminic lead vocalist and an unbelievable drummer Bill Gempler.

So when I started this magazine I thought the first drummer in it should be one of the best drummers, people, and all around top notch musicians I know Bill Gempler!!!

So, Bill tell me about your musical journey!

Bill: Around the time I was 7-8 years old I started playing accordion. I took lessons in New Glarus from Mrs. Streiff and was a member of New Glarus Glarnerettes. I was influenced at an early age from watching my mom and sisters yodel with my mom playing accordion at festivals around New Glarus and Monroe. And from the stories my dad and uncles would tell me about their band back in the 30’s and 40’s lead by my Grandfather on bandonion performing at all the big dances around southern Wisconsin. When I played my accordion for my relatives they would always tell me I had that Gempler meter. I didn’t know what they were talking about back then, but I noticed by playing those simple old ethnic songs made them tap their toes and smile. My dad always told me when we would go watch Roger Bright, The Stateline Playboys, Russ Wilson, Greg Anderson or Verne Meisner that if I really buckle down and get good at accordion I could be up there someday making $100 a night. I remember asking him years later when he was back stage at one of my gigs with Hard Times when that was going to happen, LOL. I was playing drums at the time. Guess I should have stuck with accordion.

When I was in the 6th grade Ken Krattiger the band director at Monticello Schools got the school to buy a late 60’s Ludwig five piece drum kit.

I would go at recess and watch Steve Pedersen( sadly Steve Pederson passed away the end of November 2022) play this kit. I would sneak in and watch Steve practice. I signed up for band and asked to play drums, but they had too many drummers already, so I took up the cornet. Soon after the practices started someone quit the drums and I was able to move over to percussion having never even touched the Cornet thankfully. I remember fiddling around with the kit when I could and I would try to copy the fox trot, waltz and polka beats I heard on my parent’s Roger Bright and Verne Meisner albums. One Saturday night my dad came home and said that the band at the Casino, a supper club up the street in my home town, needed a drummer that night because their drummer couldn’t make it. It was the great Swiss Yodeler, Betty Vetterli and her husband Roy’s band. I told him that I didn’t want to go but he tempted me when he told me they would pay me $20.00. I went up there and played Roy’s kit playing all kinds of old time and fox trots. I can’t even remember if I did it right, but they raved about it and gave me my $20.00 at the end of the night. My first paying gig.

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After practicing and getting better in the late 60’s I started playing that kit in the band room by myself at noon. Playing the simple rock licks that Steve always played. In around 1970 we got a new band director and he allowed me to play a few songs on the Ludwig kit at middle school band concerts. That was unheard of in those days to have a trap set player in school bands. He then went with me to by an old sixties era Ludwig five piece kit, orange sparkle. I bought the kit and purchased a set of vintage Zildjian cymbals for $60 through the school of which I still have the ride and play it every night. When I got to my freshman year I started to play with the pep band. My big song was Hawaii Five O. Using the rock beat I learned from Steve Pederson with the quarter note fills. I thought I was going to be a rock star. I practiced every night at home with head phones on learning drum licks from old Chicago and Deep Purple albums and drove my parents and the neighbors crazy. My mom would flick the lights on and off when I was to stop as the nick knacks were bouncing off the shelves.

In 1971 I was walking home from school and there were two guys standing out in front of our house waiting for me. I asked them if they wanted some night crawlers because I was selling them to make money at the time. They said that they heard that I knew how to play drums and they were looking for a drummer for a house band at Stubs Hideaway Supper Club in Dayton, Wisconsin on Friday, and Saturday nights. I guess my dad had bragged to Stub that his son plays drums. They said they would pay me $25.00 a night. I went in and asked permission from my parents, and it is history from there. My dad had to go with me because I was under aged. The Band was called Gary Stryhn and the Stardusters. Gary and a sax player named Don Burgess were great singers. They influenced me to sing harmony and pushed me to yodel using my Swiss influence from my mother. While playing with them I learned many different types of country, big band and dance rhythms and I had my first taste of playing lockstep with the bass and contributing to the sound of the band. I learned the appreciation for the standards and artists like Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Ray Price, Elvis to name a few. I also realized how important it is to emulate the actual style of the music and how important it was to the other musicians and the people on the dance floor. It was my first real professional gig as a full time member of a band. After being the house band at Stub’s for a year we ventured out to all the super clubs and dance halls around Green, Lafayette, Dane and Iowa counties performing. I even started to make $30.00 a night after a while. I was underage at the time and for a

long time my dad had to come with me to the gigs. But after a while the band guys snuck me in and I even passed for 18 years old because of my height. Don’t tell anybody, but I even snuck an adult beverage once in a while.

During that time in ’71 or ’72 I met Mark Gruenenfelder, and he asked if I wanted to jam with him and a couple guys from Blanchardville, Dave Hardyman and John Roethke. I hauled my drums up to old Karlen’s Hall and Mark and the boys hauled their old Kustom PA and equipment up to that old hot hall and we practiced. We never really played a gig but we did learn Smoke On The Water and some other Deep Purple songs pretty good. This gave me a taste of playing in a rock band. After the Stardusters disbanded because Gary moved away, I started to get called up to play with many of the local polka bands around the area. They were bands that I had watched with my parents and it was a big deal in those days. In the middle 70’s I was called by Roger Bright and asked if I would be interested in playing some weekends at the New Glarus Hotel. His drummer, the famous Gene Tebo, had some family issues and was unable to play for a while and he needed a stand in. I had the honor of playing with my musical hero for a couple years along with the great Karl Gmur on bass and Denny Anderson on banjo. I was asked to sing some of his famous songs and yodel some of the great Robbie Schneider hits. Most of these songs I could sing and yodel from memory from listening to Gene, Robbie and my Mother for so many years in my youth. Was a great learning experience in performing with great musicians in their genre and taught me that performing in a band is all about melting your talent with the other members to get the greatest sound with emphasis on making people have a good time. I also learned that when you are a sit in musician you do your best to play in the style of the band. Specifically, Roger’s band was in the Slovenian style which became my primary polka drumming style after that experience. I was paid $30.00 on Friday nights playing downstairs at the old bar at the Hotel. And $40.00 a night playing upstairs on the big stage. So I was starting to make some real money, I thought. Lots of great memories. I had the opportunity to play behind polka greats like Frank Yankovic and Joey Miskulin a few times during that tenure with Roger and the boys. I was awe struck. During this time period I was also honored with drumming and singing on some of the local polka band recordings. This was starting to get serious.

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Bill Gempler from page 25

In 1977 while playing with Roger Bright, Greg Wild, who was a family friend and former member of The Blue Diamonds, came to the stage at the New Glarus Hotel and asked if I wanted to join the Hard Times Band. Their original drummer had been killed in a logging accident. He asked me to come to a practice with him, the Stocker boys, and Ronnie Gutzmer. We went through a bunch of Haggard, Waylon, Willie, and Marshall Tucker songs. They did a cover of Heard it in a Love Song by the Marshall Tucker Band and it really sounded great. Listened to the song 30 times on a tape they gave me before auditioning with them. We played Are you Sure Hank done it this way by Waylon Jennings for half an hour just jamming. I really got hooked in that one session on the country rock genre and thought this was my next step towards stardom. I went back to see Roger Bright to tell him that I was leaving to join the Hard Times Band. Roger was a great mentor to me and understood that I wanted to spread my wings. I think at that time Gene Tebo was also starting to come back to New Glarus to play more so I would have been out of a job anyway. I took my old Ludwig 5 pc kit and went to Greg Wild’s basement for several weeks to practice and prepare for my first gigs with The Hard Times Band. They told me that I had to have a Cowboy Hat and they gave me a Hard Times T-shirt and we played our first gig at Dirty John’s Saloon in Monroe. When I got to Dirty John’s early to setup my drums, Mort Armstrong was waiting for me and helped me setup my drums. He was also a family friend and one of my drumming heroes after watching him at that time with Horsefeathers. I was already sweating and nervous but he calmed me down and just told me to have a good time and just keep the beat. He had the best right foot for country music. (Mort Armstrong is in the Iowa Musicians Hall of Fame) . Mort was one of the drummers that influenced my technical style throughout the years. Eventually the band changed with the addition of Gary Hendrickson on lead guitar and John Wartenweiler on bass. Dave Aherns soon joined too. These guys, along with Bill Stocker, formed our own guitar army. I sold my old 60” s era Ludwig kit and bought an acrylic, blue Pearl 9 pc monster kit with the addition of roto toms. Going for the big time, I guess. We moved our sound to a more Outlaw Southern Rock style in our playing and with this change got to play bigger clubs and festivals opening for some bigtime acts. Even before the addition of John Wartenweiler, Bill Stocker’s brother Denny played bass and we had already had the experience of fronting big acts like, Grampa Jones, Hank Jr., Jethro Burns, Daisy Dillman to name a few. We played the Church Key in Madison which got us into Headliners fronting Jerry Jeff Walker. This was a turning point for us. I was able to quit my day job and just play music full-time for a while which was probably not a great idea looking back. We acquired a management firm and started to travel all over the Midwest playing all the college towns. In 1979 there was a terrible truck accident where three members of the band were seriously hurt, and we lost or damaged most all our equipment. After the guys recovered, we went back on the road in a big GMC straight truck with a sleeper in the back for the band. Quite the experience traveling in that sleeper and

moving a truck load of equipment in and out of venues all over the Midwest for a year or so. Midst that time Gary Hendrickson left that band, and we took on another guitarist to accompany Dave Ahrens and kept going on the road for a while. In about 1980 I realized that the road life was starting to take a toll on me and my young family. I decided to leave Hard Times and settle down for a while. Get a real job and live like normal people. But it was always good to see that the great Bill Stocker, the head guy in Hard Times, kept that band alive with many new members through the years. I, Gary Hendrickson, and John Wartenweiler even had the opportunity to get back together with Bill Stocker for a reunion shortly before Bill’s passing. I always thought of this as a blessing and am always thankful for the opportunity to play with those Stocker Boys.

In 1981 Gary and John called me and asked if I wanted to start a wedding dance band. You could make good money and did not need all the large equipment you did for a road band. We thought we would be just playing a couple gigs a month, ha ha. Gary had seen Dale Ward of Homer Bedloe fame, from Belleville playing and said that’s the guy we need in our band and that’s how Sidewinder got started. Dale had a voice real close to Doug Gray from Marshall Tucker and we thought that we would go in the direction of a country rock cover band and Dale’s vocals would really add a great touch. We started to practice attempting to learn an entire night of songs and ended up playing a few weddings and parties the next few months. We stopped in one afternoon as a band after practice at the Riverside in Argyle Wisconsin to listen to the Gruenenfelder boys jammin there. I remember all the brothers were there along with Mort Armstrong, Dave Cassidy and the Kittleson boys from Country Four fame. We sat in and played a couple tunes which was our first opportunity to jam with our fellow local musicians. This actual night, Paul Gruenenfelder was injured in an automobile accident on his way home from this jam. Was terrible news as we had just had the opportunity to play with him that day. We were then asked to play for a benefit at the old Village Inn in Mr. Horeb for Paul Gruenenfelder along with other great bands in the area. After we played that gig we got our picture out and a write up in the Madison Music Sheet which got our name out and about. I really believe that this was a turning point for the band and we no longer were just a part time wedding band any longer.

Playing places like Pott’s Inn in Cross Plains Wisconsin and Madison area venues such as Gillies with Sidewinder were some of the best playing jobs ever! We were right in height of the urban cowboy era and were covering all the current dance hits we could think of. We were drawn in by the screaming crowds and the ability to play songs perfectly every night without being completely sober, to be a little sarcastic. We were blessed with having our great friend, Dan “Honker” Palmer as our road manager and sometimes lead singer which made the gigs all that much more fun. We played many local festivals with other great local bands which gave us an opportunity to party a little with our friends we didn’t normally see because we were all playing all the time. I sold my big blue Pearl kit and went to a Ludwig Power Tom series four pc kit. The kit had a big 26” kick drum, 16” mounted tom, 20” floor tom and a 9” deep wood snare. A real man’s kit. We were starting to play a lot of rockabilly, blue grass and outlaw country style songs and I thought the look of this kit would show better. Dale took up the steel guitar, mandolin and fiddle which added a lot wider genre to the band. We then got into the 80’s era pop cover songs more later on and decided to get away a little from the country based genre and change our name to Johnny and Gate Crashers. After a whirlwind for another couple years, Dale Ward decided to leave to take a break for a while. I, Gary and John played three piece for a short while which was a little awkward not having the great lead vocals and showmanship of Dale Ward, but we stumbled through it. We then had the opportunity to bring on a young keyboard player named Jimmy Voegeli. Jimmy needs no introduction these days.

He is the great blues keyboardist, singer, songwriter, and leader of the Jimmy’s. An award winning blues band who also has my old bass playing buddy John Wartenweiler laying down his usual steady bottom beat as always. We then cut the Johnny off of our name and just went by the Crashers. In the 90’s, because of job and family obligations, I decided to leave the Crashers. What was great about this move was that I was replaced by the famous Mauro Magellan of the Georgia Satellites. Mauro had moved to the Monroe area and was gracious enough to go with the boys after my leaving. Gary Hendrickson and I had played together in polka bands through the years even while playing with Sidewinder and the Crashers. So, I did do some side man work with Gary playing with some great Slovenian style polka bands around the area through those years between the late eighties and later 90’s. Gary and I even had the honor of recording on a Grammy nominated album with Gordy Hartmann called Polkaholic. I worked in some stand in jobs between working fulltime just for fun through the late 90’s and into the later 2000’s. Nothing serious. I had the opportunities during this period to go back to my roots and record some Slovenian and Swiss style polka music with Gary and bands like Mike McIntyre, Gordy Hartmann, Greg Anderson, Mike Schneider, and Tom Brusky, to name a few. In around 2008

Gary and I started to play some weekends at the New Glarus Hotel with Keith Zwiefel of the State Line Playboys. A little later on Mark Gruenenfelder, my old buddy from back in the 70’s came on as a fourth pc and base player. I was thankful to be able to play on that stage again with memories of Roger Bright and Karl Gmur going through my head every time we played a Roger Bright song for the crowd. After a while I started up again playing out and about with Keith more and receiving calls to play one night gigs with other bands around the area that needed a drummer for the night. I even have had the opportunity to play with Mark and Greenfield Brothers once in a while. My experiences over the last fifty some years has given me an ability to play with many different types and styles of bands. I have realized that I really do not have a favorite style. I love the challenge of trying to emulate the style of the band or music I am currently playing and just contributing to the sound of band. I really try to play the songs as written. Being a cover band, I feel it is important to honor these great song writers and musicians by not butchering there music if at all possible.

I look at my job in a band as always working to make the band sound good. It has never been about the money. If it had, I would have starved to death a long time ago. A great band leader told me many years ago that if you are in it for the money, you should just quit and go make cheese. I always wanted to play with people who strive to entertain and to make the crowds feel good. I still wait for that time during songs where you feel like you are tied at the hip with the other band members and the crowd feels it too. I am so thankful to have been able to play with musicians who feel the same. I notice now in my 60’s that many of the bands active are the same age, doing the same thing as me. Very few young people out there starting up bar bands like we did. I hope it is not a lost art. It is hard to explain to young people how you played to packed venues with full dance floors of screaming people and you were just taken to another world for a few hours a night. It may had been dangerous and wild for all the band members and fans, but I don’t think we regret any of it. I am also thankful for my family’s love of music and for instilling that in me at an early age. I still get a tear in my eye every time I play an old waltz or yodel an old ethnic Swiss tune. I can see my parents, friends and relatives who are long gone still dancing out there with smiles on their face. I hope I still have that Gempler meter. That is my payment after all these years.

Bill currently is playing with Keith and the Klassics

Bobby Bare, Still doing it his way!

Bobby Bare is one of the all-time greatest country singers to ever call Nashville home! Bobby Bare deserves to be and should be in the Country Music Hall of Fame! Bobby Bare is my hero!!!

Bobby Bare stands tall and is easy going as Joyce and I met him at the RFD Television studios in Nashville in April 2012. He was there to tape a segment of Larry’s Country Diner. The television station is awe-inspiring and a little intimidating to those of us not use to the bright lights and constant action going on behind the scenes. Bare as he is known in Nashville circles is calm and not at all affected by the whirl wind of activity going on all around him. He takes the sound stage and makes it his own. He jokes with the audience and the cast like they are all his old friends. Bare sings four songs including That’s how I got to Memphis and Marge is at the Lincoln Park Inn both written by his old friend Tom T. Hall, Streets of Baltimore (one of my favorite all-time songs), and the Mermaid Song. I am awe struck by the way Bare delivers these songs and how he has the audience in the palm if his hand. After the show taping I finally get my interview with Bobby Bare!

AG: Bobby it is a wonderful opportunity to get to finally sitdown and talk to you!

Bare: Better late than never! (laughs). I owe you an interview!

AG: So how’s fishing been lately?

Bare: Well I got this rich friend down around Waverly how builds his own boats and has his own lake there. I was catching 10 pounders. It’s not real fishing though. In a week or so I’m going bass fishing at Dell Hollow, now that’s real fishing!

AG: You have had a long and varied career singing great songs. How do you go about picking songs to sing?

Bare: I just listen to songs that hit me. I get them from many places. Most of the time a friend will tell me about a great song that they have heard and I get a copy of it and take a listen for myself. That’ how I usually find the really great songs. Sometimes I go to great writers and ask what they have. Sometimes a publisher will call me and say “ you ’ve got to listen to this song.” That’s what happened with Tom T. Hall’s Lincoln Park Inn. His publisher called me on Thanksgiving and said you’ve got to come hear this song right away. So I got in the care and drove downtown and gave it a listen. It was a fantastic song! I said “ yea you ’re right” and I recorded it. Of course I was a big fan of Tom T.’s anyway and to get to record one of his songs just made it better.

AG: You have cut a lot of Tom T’s, Shel Silverstein, and Bob McDill’s songs. In fact my favorite Bobby Bare song is McDill’s Put a little lovin on me. How did you go about picking that song?

Bare: I did a whole album of McDill’s songs called ME &

McDill. We went down to Muscle Shoals and cut that record. I just love McDill’s writing.

AG: Did you use the Muscle Shoals musicians to cut the record?

Bare: Sure did. WE used all those hot pickers down there. They are all so great.

AG: One of my favorite albums of yours is the one Rodney Crowell produced. You had so many great cuts on that record. New Cut Road, White Freightliner Blues, Call me the Breeze, etc. I love the way you cut Call me the breeze. My band plays it the funky way you cut that record. The groove you had is incredible.

Bare: That album Rodney brought in most of Emmylou Harris’s Hot band to play on it. Tony Brown, Emory Gordy a great bass player, Albert Lee, and Ricky Skaggs. We cut a couple Townes Van Zandt songs. I had met Townes back in the late 60’s. I had an A frame cabin on Centerville Lake. Mickey Newberry had the place next to mine. I was standing out on the porch and Mickey came over and said “Bobby there’ s someone you need to meet”, and it was Townes. He sang Tecumseh Valley and I loved that song and never forgot about it. When I went to record with Rodney one of us brought the song up and we both loved it so we cut it. I still think I cut a great track with that one. I had also cut Four Strong Winds by Townes way back in the 60’s. He had a song I had always loved called Summer Wages and I recorded that too!

AG: That is a fantastic album. One of the all-time greatest ever cut in my opinion! I told Rodney that when I interviewed him. He told me that it was one of his favorite records he ever worked on.

Bare: Well thank you. I really loved making that record. It’ s got a great songs and sound.

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AG: You were one of the first people to stand up to Music Row and get to cut your own records producing them and picking the pickers to play on them. How did that come about?

Bare: I’ll tell you how that all got started. Chet stopped producing in the late 60’s. Elvis came to town and Chet was producing him. He would come to town and mess around and not get started recording until two in the morning. Chet was producing 20 plus others acts and he just got tired of it, so he quit producing. They stuck me with a lot of other producers and it just did not work out.

I had always wanted to work with Jerry Kennedy and my contract was up with RCA so I went over to Mercury with Jerry. We had good success. We recorded That’s how I got to Memphis, Come Sunday, I took a memory to lunch another great Tom T. Song. My contract ran out after two years at Mercury. Jack Clement was trying to get me to come to JMI records and Chet was trying to get me to come back to RCA so I went back. I told Chet you got too many producers over here and it’s too confusing to me. Chet said “why don’t you produce your own records? I’ve known you long enough that I know you know what to do.” I did Ride me down easy and then I put out an album of the same name. Then I started doing stuff completely out in left field for Nashville and RCA standards. I was working with Shel Silverstein and snuck in his stuff before anyone knew what I was doing. Jerry Bradley was running it by then, and he told me “If I had known what you were doing I would have stopped you right the!”

That was about the Time Waylon and I were real close friends. I told him what I was doing and he went to RCA and told them he wanted to produce his own records. They were not real happy about it, but they had to let him. That opened up a huge can of worms! It was really not a big deal for me but when Waylon did it the dam broke and the rest is history. The was not really a big “Outlaw” thing like the press made it out to be.

AG: Walt Houston played guitar for you for a long time.

Bare: I really miss him.

AG: Well the first time I ever got on stage to play Country Music was with Walt Houston in Verona WI. He was in a band playing with Jim Dawson. Dawson walked of stage to get a drink and Walt said over the mic "is there a bass player in the house”. My friends pushed me out of my seat and Walt through the bass over my neck and away we went. I played three songs with him. Walt was the best picker in town at that time and it was quite an honor to be able to play a few songs with him.

Bare: Any train wrecks?

AG: No it went pretty well. Walt was great about telling me the chords and changeups. He told me what to play. It was a blast.

Bare: Walt was a good one!

AG: What’s upcoming and knew for you?

Bare: I’ve got a new album coming out in Scandinavia in the latter part of May and a tour in June. I wrote or co-wrote all the songs on this record. A song that I co-wrote and sang with Peter got entered into the Euro song competition and became a hit there. It’s the same contest that launched ABBA, Julio Escalis, and Engelbart Humperdinck. It’s been around for over 50 years. It’s bigger than American Idol is here.

I’ve got a lot of fishing trips coming up. I’ve got a two week trip in a week from now.

AG: Is your wife good with all this fishing?

Bare: She is now! (laughs) She wasn’t always good with it. We went through a period of time when the word fishing was considered the “F” word (laughs)!

AG: How long have you been married?

Bare: Since 1964. It’s sneaking up on 50 years. Way too long for her to get mad anymore about fishing! There’s not a lot she can do about anyway!

AG: Joyce got that way about my guitar buying. She doesn’t say anything anymore.

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Bare: How many guitars do you have?

AG: Oh about 45.

Bare: Heck if things get tough you can get on eBay and sell them and have enough money to live on for 10 years or so (laughs)! Bobby Jr. does that all time. They just did a movie about him following him around for a year and filming. They were over at his house and he has his guitars hanging on the wall. He was showing them to the camera and telling a little about them, and I steeped in the row of them. When he came to me he said “next to my Les Paul is my dad, and this is the bass Waylon gave me”, and then moved on to the next one like I was part of his collection.

AG: So what’s after Scandinavia?

Bare: I got some Fair dates coming up and some Casino’s. I usually book dates in the summer where I can go fishing. Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan places where there are good lakes a lot of fish.

AG: What advice would you give to an artist starting out today?

Bare: It’s something that you’ve got to love and have such a passion for you’d do it for free. If you don’t have the passion for it you will never make it. I was eaten up by Country Music. That’s all I could think of when I was a teenager.

Today if you are good you can build up a following and maintain them through the internet. That’s a huge advantage over the way I and all the others had back when we started. The bigger you can build that the better it is for you. If you can get 5000 fans to follow you on the internet you’ve got 5000 fans already to buy your record. That is huge! Plus you’ ve got 5000 people to come to your shows. If you can get

Every issue we will go back into the archives of the Americana Gazette and reprint an article.

We hope you enjoy these reprints and the nostalgia that they bring!

10,000 hard core fans on the internet in your herd you are home free. That’s like having a 1,000,000 record seller.

You’ve got to nurture that. If you do the big money record people will come and find you! They have no choice!

AG: Thank you so much for your time and this interview

Bare: You are Welcome!

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Americana Radio –The Train

That sound you are hearing is not an early spring thunderstorm or tornado. It is The Train, a totally new radio format that was created by longtime Madison radio personality and entrepreneur Jonathan Little, along with business partners Dave Sholin, San Francisco radio personality and programmer, and Rob Bleetstein, the original Americana editor at the Gavin Report, the first radio trade publication to recognize Americana as a unique genre of American music. This team, the members of which consider themselves “music missionaries dedicated to creating great radio, “ have put together an exciting fresh radio programming marvel they call The Train. The Train is a special new mix of Americana songs from people you know and will want to know. Songs from the heartland and the big city. From the back roads to the interstate. You are the conductor! When it comes to your personal "train ride", you are in charge. Your AccuRadio player allows you to skip songs and even allows you to ban an artist from your personal "playlist".

The Train grew out of a research project by Troy Research, a consumer opinion market research company where Little is a co-owner and VP Sales, conducted for the Americana Music Association out of Nashville TN. They commissioned Troy Research to study the awareness of Americana as a music genre and to examine the likelihood of success of Americana as a 24/7 radio format. AMA Executive Director Jed Hilly had Little sit in on conference calls with corporate radio heads to discuss the possibilities of large radio groups taking on the Americana format. After sitting through a half dozen of these meetings with no real positive results, Hilly asked Little what he thought they should do. Little decided to pull together a group of radio programming veterans and put together a 24/7 syndicated Americana format that has become Americana Radio – The Train.

Three thousand radio listeners who sample all kinds of radio formats each week were surveyed about what they thought about radio and the choice of formats available. The results of the survey showed that 50 percent of radio listeners are somewhat dissatisfied with what they are hearing on radio today. They also revealed that they would be interested in listening to and supporting a new radio format. The Troy Research project submitted Americana as a potential new radio format. The results convinced Little and his Train Team that Americana is something of a secret format waiting to be embraced by music and radio fans. Four percent of the survey respondents endorsed Americana and would support the radio format as their new favorite station. Ten percent indicated this would be their second favorite station, and thirty percent replied that they’d give American regular listening and see if the format lived up to their expectations. Little commented, “Consider ratings across the United States of people who listen to radio and then take Madison as an example. The top station here has an eight or nine percent market share. Based on a description of

the format and a list of Americana artists, 4% of the respondents in our national study selected Americana as their favorite radio station. 10% made it their second choice. With those survey stats you have potential for a big winner.” Little went on to say that “our own projections indicate that Americana could be a top eight radio station within six months. What that means to the affiliate radio station is that fulltime Americana Radio can generate both ratings and revenue. Not only will listeners embrace it, advertisers will support it.”

After a review of the survey data and look at the state of radio in 2009, Little, Sholin, and Bleetstein decided to develop a 24/7 Americana format which they’ve trademarked as The Train. This is mass appeal, mainstream Americana radio programming designed for terrestrial based radio stations and providing all the music, the radio personalities, the features, the promotions. Think satellite radio with local advertising and less talk. Fulltime Americana radio today only exists in a few US markets. Where Americana is being programmed “it is usually two or three hours of specialty programming on public radio or listener supported radio station,” according to Little. There are stations in Texas and the Carolinas that do program Americana music, but it is mixed in with more contemporary pop and alternative music. Little’s Train Team will bring Americana music to mainstream America in a unique Americana setting.

Americana music has many definitions today and encompasses many different styles including Blue Grass, Alt -Country, No Depression, Folk, Blues, and Roots Rock. All of these will be featured on The Train along with artists like Lyle Lovett, Willie Nelson, Rodney Crowell, Steve Earle, and Emmylou Harris, artists that don’t have a voice on commercial radio today. Americana Radio – The Train will also feature Independent artists, something that rarely happens on commercial or corporate radio in any measurable form. Little states the “the song will dictate if it gets played and programmed in rotation; not some radio consultant in New York, LA, or Nashville”. This will give Americana artists a level playing field in getting their music heard by the masses.

Americana Music fills the niche and needs of many disfranchised listeners today. It is loud and quiet, rowdy and soulful, acoustic and electric. It is something for everyone; it is timeless. The importance of an Americana Radio format available nationally to terrestrial radio stations cannot be overstated. Little’s tireless approach and maximum effort to bring this to fruition is awe inspiring.

Jon Carroll Musician & Social Justice Warrior

Jon Carroll is known for a lot of music undertakings in his career. At age 18, Jon Carroll was a founding member of Starland Vocal Band, recording the #1 Pop hit “AFTERNOON Jon Carroll Musician and Social Justice Warrior

DELIGHT”. The group went on to be nominated for 5 Grammy Awards, winning 2: for Best New Artist & Best Arrangement for Voices (One of Jon's roles in the group).

His solo release, Love Returns, won seven Washington Area Music Association (WAMA) awards including Album of the Year, Song of the Year (for “Paint That Dollar”), Musician of the Year, and Songwriter of the Year. The follow-up live two-CD concert recording, Love Returns

Live at the Barns at Wolf Trap was released in 2008. Carroll and the album received awards for Songwriter of the Year, Pop Rock Recording, Pop Rock Vocalist, Pop Rock Duo/Group, Pop Rock Instrumentalist, and Musician of the Year.

Since then, he's has not slowed down as a performer, composer, arranger, producer, songwriter and musician. His works have appeared in films, commercials and episodic dramas and comedies, and he remains a highly sought-after studio session man appearing on many recordings within a wide range of genres.

His songs have been covered by artists such as Linda Ronstadt (Her 80’s top-30 hit “Get Closer” her last Rock single), Tom Jones and Kenny Rogers, and he's a longtime keyboardist/vocalist with Mary Chapin Carpenter, with touring stints for countless others including Rodney Crowell, (Dixie) Chicks, Peter Wolf, and Eric Lindell.

A native Washingtonian, his work has been recognized repeatedly over the course of many years by the Washington Area Music Association (WAMA), which awarded him over 20 "Wammies" for Vocalist, Instrumentalist, Songwriter and Song of Year. At the first WAMA awards in 1985, Jon won the first Songwriter Wammie “Get Closer” which Ronstadt had released in 1981.

As a songwriter, Carroll has been likened to artists as disparate as John Prine and E. Annie Proulx, with songs as insightful as they are rhythmic and soulful. Aside from his career as a hired hand, he performs with several of his own bands, but to hear Jon perform solo in an intimate setting is an all too rare treat! When surveying production requirements and possibilities, Jon a versatile vocalist as well as guitarist and keys man chooses always to approach the music "song first."

Today Jon should add another title to his name and resume, that of social activist for justice, cultural awareness and legislative advocacy. He works independently to bring to light how musicians might use their power and stature to highlight social injustices in the United States today. He’s a strong supporter of a pending congressional bill H.R.4130 - American Music Fairness Act, which is attempting to codify and require payment of performance royalties to musicians and singers whose work appears on musical recordings which are broadcast by terrestrial radio stations. He points out that “the US is one of only two or three industrialized nations who don’t, and that issue was brought to higher awareness only after digital file sharing and streaming compelled the big corporate labels and media guys to try and lock in royalty rates for web streaming which by itself decimated the income for all intellectual artists. Up until then, the big corps had been just coasting along on this loophole in the law from 1923 or thereabouts. Typical, really. When folks brought it up after all this time, they tried to say ‘yeah, well, what else is new’ but it was and is wrong, and they know it.”

He’s lobbied in person on Capitol Hill for such measures, although he’s quick to point out that “everyone has the ability to stay informed about legislation pertinent to their lives not merely the more widely reported ones right there from your device or whatever. You can read it and with a few more clicks find and address it directly to your government representative at sites like congress.gov. It’s amazing to me that so many of us are seemingly willing to throw up our hands helplessly, when the conduit to our personal participation in what really is, at its core, a system designed to be a representative democracy is right in front of us, right there in our damn hand”

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Jon went on to elaborate how far too few people let alone musicians stand up to speak the truth within a forum that truly matters about the temperament and cultural contours of America today. Although politics is a subject about which we at the B Side often avoid, social consciousness is not. Being socially conscious is not so much a political practice as it is displaying one’s sense of responsibility and concern for the issues that challenge society as a whole, such as economic, racial and lifestyle related injustices. Seeing is caring for your neighbors, the elderly, the homeless, the indigenous, all people. That concern includes standing up to speak out against observable injustice. It is the selfless giving of oneself that immediately makes this world a better, more gracious and live-able place.

In the past we’ve had Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Pete Seeger, John Lennon, Bob Marley, Bob Geldof, Neil young, Willie Nelson each and all led the movements advocating justice within myriad social issues, domestic and global. Today’s musicians seem to care more about making money and social media followers than taking a stand and fighting for the rights of those who cannot fight on their own. That is why it is so important that there are the Jon Carroll’s of the world. Speaking out through their music and deeds to make this a better place to live and create. Jon plays benefits, pens essays, teaches, and composes music and songs that focus on the important social ills of today.

Jon began learning hard truths at age ten with the death of his father. Jon grew up in Fredericksburg, VA, then Washington D.C. in the 60’s and 70’s and witnessed first-hand the political and civil upheavals of the day. This, along with his father’s reverent and exemplary sense of justice and civil liberties, was a powerful force in forming Jon’s attitude and thought process. Jon related the story of a housekeeper. Dorothy Washington, an African American, had for years come on Fridays to do housework. Jon recalls her face appearing at the kitchen door, drained of spirit and full of woe. The Robert Kennedy assassination had been the previous night, mere months after the cold-blooded murder of Martin Luther King, and those still in the wake of President Kennedy’s assassination in 1963. Jon, at his breakfast, saw she had been crying and stood still within her tragic realization. Jon’s mom looked up to see her distraught posture, “Dorothy, are you alright?” With a crestfallen finality she replied, “Mrs. Carroll, they’re going to kill all of them!” As Jon retold this story to me his voice quaked and hesitated. I could tell that even after all these many years the event still touched him deeply. “I was 11 but, man you’d have to be a boy in a bubble not to get the gravity of what a nadir that was in our nation at that moment.”

Jon posts a blog on his website JonCarroll.org. Many of the subjects therein are socially related. In particular the

blog Minstrel Destinations 1961-1968 is a wonderful example of what inspired young Jon and his quest for social justice. He also hosts workshops, sometimes for free. You can find them at his website.

Back to his day job

Jon is first and foremost a musician and composer, songwriting, co-writing, and collaborating on all sorts of projects. He considers co-writing especially important. “The chemistry is so especially important. People who are good at organizing are good at defining and that makes cowriting, when it works, so refreshing. My own personal songwriting process is not unlike a painter’s: somewhat chaotic until it begins to coalesce. That’s the work of it for me mining and minding the inspirational chaff. Sometimes I have pages upon pages of verses and it’s almost a celebrated moment when I’m ready to wade in with my sickle and hack away until it’s as good a song as it can be and then a record.”

Cowriting partners are few but varied. He’s written several with Leesburg, Va.’s Todd Wright “a great organizer”. He shared his most recent song collaboration.

“I recently became good friends with the way cool and brilliant Pamela Means. She was a wonderful collaborator. When we first convened in my studio to write, we ended up hanging out all afternoon just getting acquainted. We very quickly realized the mutual fire in our bellies and the importance of getting a message out through song. I think we each recognized in each other an embraced mission, not only in our art, but in all our life. We each knew what the tune was that we were about to write. We placed a few hooks and grooves on tape, and she later sent me some seeds for the crop, and a month later I dove in and didn’t vary from the theme until I had it pretty much recorded, so that chaff stage was circumvented through a concise vision we had together.”

“When I began my alcoholic recovery 32 years ago, anger was one of those issues I needed to rebrand and repurpose in my own world. It can consume you, yet at the same time we mustn’t make the mistake of choosing the ‘gentle high ground’ in the face of true exploitation and crude intimidation. Righteous indignation is healthy. Bullying is not. I had a real problem with the “southern heritage” argument that it’s somehow sacrilege to “cancel” the monuments to those revered confederates and such, albeit ones who were willing to or did die for their causes. The Freedom Riders believed in THEIR cause, too. They organized, walked, rode and marched into true peril without uniforms and firearms, as we all should be willing to do. I’m not encouraging violence or brutishness, but those folks are my heroes, and I strive to be a living monument to them. Those folks on the Edmund Pettus bridge they didn’t organize and go all the way down there only to turn back when they saw dogs, guns and batons waiting on the other side. These days folks hit the streets for a righteous cause Black Lives Matter, for instance and we allow Continued on page 34

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the messaging from the right to call us “antifa”? That does not even make literal sense though, on second thought, maybe it does and so be it. Brand me an Anti-Fascist any day.”

That Carroll-Means effort became the song TODAY (Not Tomorrow), available on Jon’s site as well as all those other platforms. Other such statement oriented sides are Everything Costs More (When You’re Poor) which features the last incarnation of Jon’s Massachusetts musical ensemble Brave Soul, and (You Gotta) Stand Up! which is the wholly pertinent theme song of Jon’s favorite infotainment podcast Stand Up! With Pete Dominick. “Pete had been on SiriusXM for years until he was let go for his ‘water cooler politics’ when top brass there welcomed Steve Bannon back onto the platform. Now he does the show daily on his own with the help of Patrion subscribers. I don’t know how he does it, but the show is better than ever, and he’s created this cool community surrounding it as well.”

I asked Jon if he considers the recording studio a workspace or a creative lab. “Oh, definitely both”, he stated. “It’s an instrument that contains multitudes.”

When at home (he still commutes regularly and often to his native Washington DC) Jon lives and regularly works respectively in two spaces within a half a million square foot five level repurposed textile mill in Western Massachusetts. The community and neighborhood there are very socially, artistically and creatively active. “We’re surrounded by great neighbors whose works all seem to be somewhere within the creative and socially resonant realm of the world. It’s the most wonderful living and creative space I’ve ever known. It’s the ultimate creative arts dorm village I never got to experience in my college-age years”. Jon left college in his first year to help form Starland Vocal Band, never returning. “Maybe someday, Art History…yeah!”

He now hosts workshops, shows and seminars periodically in his studio space. He enjoys playing a mentor/guide role in helping younger bands and artists work up new material in pre-production before they go to spend their larger funds in/on other studios and venues.

“I enjoy sharing what I have learned in arranging, production, and writing. Again, it’s a matter of organizing and effectively articulating what they’ve already got going on. I remember my sitting in record label offices in the 80’s, playing demos for A&R guys and watching, then seeing exactly when someone was beginning to lose interest in the record, and I’d like to think I learned from those experiences. Folks usually need to work on the arrangements a wee bit more and be willing to remove what may be superfluous. Being a player and writer, there’s an inherent challenge: serve the musicality or the song? How to do both? Many folks can ‘hear a line’, but you still need to work on

that line so that it makes the song better it’s seldom exactly right just by dint of the fact that you came up with it. Anyway working on that stuff before going to the deluxe studio usually makes for a better record. More economical, too.”

Jon has been a professional musician since he was a teenager, so “after a certain point, you catch on to some stuff whether you want to or not!”

“Younger players tend to play more than what the song needs, which unless it’s a featured thing means it’s detrimental. A hot lick, a too-long intro, incessant repeated lines and parts that are just taking up space they’re not adding anything to the song, which is usually the most important element of the record. That’s something I try to pass on to the folks I work with, especially the young players.” A trope he likes to share with young players has to do with listening before playing.

“A singer/songwriter has arrived with a piece already replete with lyrics, rhythm, melody they are often already accompanying themselves with the instrument they played while writing the song, so most of the heavy lifting has already been done. A player’s job is often not unlike a baseball umpire after the batter hits a pop-up right up the chimney in front of the plate: Stay out of the way.”

When asked about which he finds more satisfying, writing songs or doing arrangements, Jon states that “writing, creating and composing are always stimulating. Whether it’s a song, a soundtrack or an overdubbed track on someone else’s record, music is full of mystery and if you work on it in a celebrative way, there’s always some divinity lurking, and it’s magical and miraculous when it’s revealed. It should all come together into something that truly feels special and is effecting. There’s nothing perfunctory about it, even when you’ve become aware of the tools that are and aren’t in your kit.”

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Jon has a 22+ song collection to be released in 2023. All but two of the songs are songs that have social themes. The other two are The Big Goodbye and Love Came First which are more autobiographical, the former about the discomfort of all endings in and of life. The latter addresses those intersections in our lives which dictate so much thereafter when “nothing is truly meant to be! Folks love to say and believe that. Well, it is that’s for sure.”

He states dryly, “I can’t remember the last love song I wrote. As you get older your views change as does your style. When we’re younger, we’ve not been in as many new and different circumstances! But my life’s sure had a lot of interesting ones! I guess my last favorite ‘love song’ was an old one called “Old Flame Blue” which, at the time, was very heart-achy, romantic, and coming from a truly pathetic place. Not many people have heard it, although Tom Jones recorded a pretty weird rendition of it on his Carrying A Torch album. “He also did my Walk Tall (Valley of the Shadows). What a trip that was.”

As Jon and I continued our conversation we moved to a discussion on Indigenous people, and how White European and early Americans took so much more than just land from them. How much of their culture was stolen and crushed. History and culture that will never be heard or seen again. “Culture is weird, you know…it requires memory and experience, though much of it is endemic to where and when we were born, whether we choose to examine it or not. We’re in a particularly profound moment requiring collective assessment right now, actually. I hope we can step up to it.”

We also talked about how the North American Native People have contributed so elementally to the music we love. Artists like Jesse Ed Davis, Buffy St. Marie, Link Wray, Robbie Robertson, Charley Patton and so many more. We both loved the documentary Rumble that tells so much of that story. “It’s an eye-opener, for sure.”

We finished our conversation with our thoughts and feelings about our dear departed friend John Jennings. How his wit and drive for great music influenced both of us. We talked about how much John had done to help musicians achieve their dreams and goals. Jon said that he often does and will always recall so many of John’s pearls of knowledge and wisdom, but one of his favorites is one that Jon feels is an axiom for all: “If you have true love, everything else is just details.”

Jon Carroll is a wonder in the music world and as a human being. A man who works hard both to speak out on the injustice he sees, and a champion of the songwriting process that brings so much joy and “divinity” to so many. He gives his time to mentor young artists and help them overcome or bypass some of the potential pitfalls of the young

Jon Carroll--Grammy, Wammie Winning Musician, Writer, Arranger, Performer

Website joncarroll.org

Twitter @jdcarroll88

Facebook @jdcarroll88

Instagram @ jdcarroll88

artist/musician. A darn good legacy if you ask me! "

“We Are Each Other, Humility Is King"

Rodney Crowell and a student at his 2023 songwriters camp in Nashville.

Photo by Jonathon Robinson