Thread: Ongoing Renato Selling Strategies 1. 11-17-2011 10:34 AM #1 renato1
Junior Member Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 16 Ongoing Renato Selling Strategies If the WildeBeast diamond edition was a special limited release for a Middle East Customer and only available for a limited time on pre-order basis only to Renato Customers, there should be none available right? How come there are so many of them? Also, who can count and explain the countless watch selling strategies that Daniel has come up with? The new one that he has come up with is in line with so many other attempts. I have lost count and am wondering again about RENATO collezioni. What is going on? Reply With Quote 2. 11-17-2011 11:10 AM #2 Hater
Senior Member Join Date Sep 2011
Location Deep depths of hatred. Posts 127 Originally Posted by renato1 If the WildeBeast diamond edition was a special limited release for a Middle East Customer and only available for a limited time on pre-order basis only to Renato Customers, there should be none available right? How come there are so many of them? Also, who can count and explain the countless watch selling strategies that Daniel has come up with? The new one that he has come up with is in line with so many other attempts. I have lost count and am wondering again about RENATO collezioni. What is going on? Was that WildeBeast a numbered limited edition?? If so, by owners posting your edition number could show duplicates (if you are concerned about it). I participated on another watch line/forum many years ago, none of us had duplicate LE Numbers. Sales strategies? Lost count but sure there will be more. H Reply With Quote 3. 11-17-2011 12:40 PM #3 Mainspring
Senior Member Join Date
Oct 2011 Posts 117 Originally Posted by Hater Was that WildeBeast a numbered limited edition?? If so, by owners posting your edition number could show duplicates (if you are concerned about it). I participated on another watch line/forum many years ago, none of us had duplicate LE Numbers. Sales strategies? Lost count but sure there will be more. H There were instances in the past where there were LE watches that had multiple runs. It is out there on the net for all to read: posted on another forum - a statement made by Daniel about Renato's "limited run" watch models.
Replying to points raised about ongoing production of our Limited Edition watches; let me outline Renato’s position and provide an explanation. Within the framework of our marketing contracts with ShopNBC, and being exclusive to the network, agreements were set that allowed us to introduce one subsequent edition of specific limited models that have sold out due to overwhelming market response. These additional runs are numbered sequentially, and the new runs continue above the edition numbers on the first
issue. If you have purchased watch #40 of 100, the following edition will indicate the unit number above the initial run. Original run numbering WILL NOT be duplicated. On other models in the line, we have made variations in the movements and/or dial material that in fact qualify the watch as a separate edition. I apologize if this has upset some of our loyal customers. The quality and value of our line remains at the highest standards of the industry and I stand behind our products. Our Customer Service has been noted as exceptional by many members of this Forum, and I apologize for any confusion that this has caused.
*********************** First they had their own "Swissgate" scandal awhile back. Daniel Mink and Jim Skelton claimed Renato watches meet all the benchmarks to be labeled as Swiss Made but said they do not because Daniel does not feel comfortable using the Swiss Made designation unless the watch is totally Swiss Made. This was later proved to be a lie as the watches are produced in China. Then the diamond scandal. Renato used to mark their casebacks with the diamond ratings if the watch had gemstones. One customer who was studying to be a gemologist called them on the diamond quality not being what was advertised. Renato then sued the gentlemen in question and dropped the diamond ratings from the casebacks. Then came Renato's departure from SNBC. In search of bigger better things they claimed to open their own boutique off of 5th Avenue in New York. Turns out after several NY geeks went to check it out there was no show room of any kind but rather it was a securities office that sold advertising to Renato to hang a flag banner off the side of the building.
Then came the liquidation sales post SNBC departure, models that were $500 on Shop NBC that many paid top dollar for were being blown out direct from Renato for sub-$200. Then they came back to SNBC after failed attempts of going retail and a lack luster stint on QVC. Prices were back up but many were not buying new models being Renato blew them out direct shortly before. Basically they exposed their mark-up which is grossly inflated. Then the whole limited edition scandal. Renato's were always billed and sold as LE pieces, numbered, and once they are gone they are gone forever. Even though the model lines continue if you buy say a T-Rex with black IP, 5040D movement, and carbon fiber dial, that particular combo will never be seen again but other combos will be available in the T-Rex family. Well they were secretly extending runs of particular models that sold well, for instance the first run of T-Rex with G10's, there were only supposed to be 75 made in each color as designated by the LE number on the caseback xx/75. Then all the sudden more showed up with numbers of xx/125. Originally Daniel Mink explained this away as those were overseas models that came back for sale to the US market. That was suspect as Renato's only avenue of sales in SNBC and they only sell to the USA. This started happening again with more models in the Renato line and Daniel Mink and Jim Skelton went on damage control when the uproar began on watchgeeks.net. Daniel admitted his contract with SNBC allows Renato to extend LE numbered models when demand is there for more, thus making the Renato limited numbered edition sales ploy worthless. Reply With Quote 4. 11-17-2011 12:40 PM #4 RedlineMan
Senior Member
Join Date Sep 2011 Location Vestal, NY. Posts 106 On the one hand; You can allow your head to spin trying to keep track of them all. Sort of gets like a Cry Wolf situation after a while, where there are so many "sales" and gimmicks you just lose interest. On the other hand, you might admire his creativity and energy... to some extent. Product is almost the easy part of business success. Last edited by RedlineMan; 11-17-2011 at 07:57 PM. Reply With Quote 5. 11-17-2011 12:50 PM #5 RedlineMan
Senior Member Join Date Sep 2011 Location Vestal, NY. Posts
106 And... Anybody who buys based on the limit of the edition, thinking that one is worth substantially more than any other, is nuts. Is having a certain piece like a #1 cool? Yeh... but it is in reality meaningless. I have a #1 Rose Vulcan 5040F which is "special" to me, but... I think if he were really smart, DM would DROP the LE/numbering thing completely. If done wrong it is a real turn off. At best, it is but a shallow ploy to me. Reply With Quote 6. 11-17-2011 01:13 PM #6 renato1
Junior Member Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 16 Ignoring the limited edition issue altogether, didn't Daniel say that the new diamond WildeBeast with the slightly larger case dimension, was going to be exclusive production to a customer in the Middle East with high diamond quality expectations and that it would be available to Renato customers only on a preorder basis? Why so many of them available? Those who received them indicate that they are numbered. This new SaleBidz.com is something else...does it mean that someone can get this watch for less than $279.00 that was the special price for Renato customers only who pre-ordered? Again, the controversy begins and
surrounds Renato. Don't get me wrong, I love Renato and am an avid collector and have advocated for Renato before but, come on now...!!! Reply With Quote 7. 11-17-2011 02:11 PM #7 The B JIM
Senior Member Join Date Sep 2011 Location Palm Beach County and St Pete Posts 821 I agree 100% some new tactic almost daily, have lost trust. Reply With Quote 8. 11-17-2011 02:14 PM #8 tamgreen
Senior Member Join Date Sep 2011 Posts
141 Maybe all that is wrutten above is write and maybe not. I hope it is not. I don't like the game with LE and LP. Ir sounds, foregive me, redicolouse. A company should stand beyond it statement. BUT, and uts a big BUT, the bottom line is that we all think Renato produces wonderfull watches in fair prices, Isn't it? Otherwise we all woudn't be here... Reply With Quote 9. 11-17-2011 08:12 PM #9 Adolfo
Member Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 30 Originally Posted by Mainspring There were instances in the past where there were LE watches that had multiple runs. It is out there on the net for all to read: posted on another forum - a statement made by Daniel about Renato's "limited run" watch models.
Replying to points raised about ongoing production of our Limited Edition watches; let me outline Renato’s position and provide an explanation. Within the framework of our marketing contracts with ShopNBC, and being exclusive to the network, agreements were set that allowed us to introduce one subsequent edition of specific limited models that have sold out due to overwhelming market response. These additional runs are numbered sequentially, and the new runs continue above the edition numbers on the first issue. If you have purchased watch #40 of 100, the following edition will indicate the unit number above the initial run. Original run numbering WILL NOT be duplicated. On other models in the line, we have made variations in the movements and/or dial material that in fact qualify the watch as a separate edition. I apologize if this has upset some of our loyal customers. The quality and value of our line remains at the highest standards of the industry and I stand behind our products. Our Customer Service has been noted as exceptional by many members of this Forum, and I apologize for any confusion that this has caused.
*********************** First they had their own "Swissgate" scandal awhile back. Daniel Mink and Jim Skelton claimed Renato watches meet all the benchmarks to be labeled as Swiss Made but said they do not because Daniel does not feel comfortable using the Swiss Made designation unless the watch is totally Swiss Made. This was later proved to be a lie as the watches are produced in China. Then the diamond scandal. Renato used to mark their casebacks with the diamond ratings if the watch had gemstones. One customer who was studying to be a gemologist called them on the diamond quality not being what was advertised. Renato then sued the gentlemen in question and dropped the
diamond ratings from the casebacks. Then came Renato's departure from SNBC. In search of bigger better things they claimed to open their own boutique off of 5th Avenue in New York. Turns out after several NY geeks went to check it out there was no show room of any kind but rather it was a securities office that sold advertising to Renato to hang a flag banner off the side of the building. Then came the liquidation sales post SNBC departure, models that were $500 on Shop NBC that many paid top dollar for were being blown out direct from Renato for sub-$200. Then they came back to SNBC after failed attempts of going retail and a lack luster stint on QVC. Prices were back up but many were not buying new models being Renato blew them out direct shortly before. Basically they exposed their mark-up which is grossly inflated. Then the whole limited edition scandal. Renato's were always billed and sold as LE pieces, numbered, and once they are gone they are gone forever. Even though the model lines continue if you buy say a T-Rex with black IP, 5040D movement, and carbon fiber dial, that particular combo will never be seen again but other combos will be available in the T-Rex family. Well they were secretly extending runs of particular models that sold well, for instance the first run of T-Rex with G10's, there were only supposed to be 75 made in each color as designated by the LE number on the caseback xx/75. Then all the sudden more showed up with numbers of xx/125. Originally Daniel Mink explained this away as those were overseas models that came back for sale to the US market. That was suspect as Renato's only avenue of sales in SNBC and they only sell to the USA. This started happening again with more models in the Renato line and Daniel Mink and Jim Skelton went on damage control when the uproar began on watchgeeks.net. Daniel admitted his contract with SNBC allows Renato to extend LE numbered models when demand is there for more, thus making the Renato limited numbered edition sales ploy worthless.
It's impossible to comment on all your points. Besides, I don't know the details behind a lot of that stuff. In the end, I purchase watches that I like and whose quality is evident (never thought of this hobby as an investment of any sort). The fine print is not too important to me; my "real life" activities are already complex enough that when I buy and wear a watch, I only extract pleasure from it (or I don't buy it and/or don't wear it). I do own several pieces that are 360/360 (two Cyclops; one Stallion), or 1/xxx (several WBs). I find that to be "cute," but I like those watches the same as others that are, say, 24/100, or 45/360. In fact, some of my older WBs don't even have any reference to special edition of limited production. If I may, I'll say simply that, a) in my experience (I own many Renatos) it is factual that when new productions were made, the numbers started with the number at which the previous production ended. b) There is a big difference between limited edition and limited production. c) Renato watches were much more expensive at ShopNBC. What is the surprise? ShopNBC surely acounts for most of that difference. Just enjoy! Cheers. Last edited by Adolfo; 11-17-2011 at 08:15 PM. Reply With Quote 10.11-17-2011 08:42 PM #10 doubledown
Senior Member
Join Date Oct 2011 Posts 144 A true virgin---how nice. Bigjim
Member Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 49 Originally Posted by Adolfo It's impossible to comment on all your points. Besides, I don't know the details behind a lot of that stuff. In the end, I purchase watches that I like and whose quality is evident (never thought of this hobby as an investment of any sort). The fine print is not too important to me; my "real life" activities are already complex enough that when I buy and wear a watch, I only extract pleasure from it (or I don't buy it and/or don't wear it). I do own several pieces that are 360/360 (two Cyclops; one Stallion), or 1/xxx (several WBs). I find that to be "cute," but I like those watches the same as others that are, say, 24/100, or 45/360. In fact, some of my older WBs don't even have any reference to special edition of limited production. If I may, I'll say simply that,
a) in my experience (I own many Renatos) it is factual that when new productions were made, the numbers started with the number at which the previous production ended. b) There is a big difference between limited edition and limited production. c) Renato watches were much more expensive at ShopNBC. What is the surprise? ShopNBC surely acounts for most of that difference. Just enjoy! Cheers. I envision P. T. Barnum wringing his hands and licking his lips after reading that response. Reply With Quote -18-2011 12:40 AM #12 Chief1
Junior Member Join Date Oct 2011 Location Outside your window Posts 25 Haterz all Haterz, what is wrong with sales gimmicks to keep a struggling company afloat?
Reply With Quote -18-2011 01:24 AM #13 Mostroman
Senior Member Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 293 Ah yeah, the Swiss,they do it right. They have 90% of the watch parts manufactured in China at a high quality shop and ship them to Switzerland and put a few expensive parts made in Switzerland with them and put the watch together in Switzerland and call it Swiss Made. They have a small amount of investment in each watch and sell then for a crazy mark up to cover their race cars, advertising, and high living. Yea, run on out and pay $65,000.00 for a Richard Mille diver and tell me how it is so much better deal then a Renato Buzo Extreme at $229.00. Try to sell that Richard Mille after you buy it and see how that works for you. Reply With Quote -18-2011 04:55 AM #14 DanielMink
Renato Watches CEO Join Date
Aug 2011 Location Sunrise, Florida, United States Posts 11 Hi Everyone. I was reading your posts, and would like the opportunity to explain. The reason for these timepieces still being offered are two fold: 1. Some customers who originally pre ordered them cancelled their orders prior to ever receiving them. Their watches were still built and therefore being offered. 2. Our Middle East customer, reduced their order by about 20% so we had some additional stock to sell. Many of you have already received these watches and I would love your feedback. All the best, Daniel Mink Daniel Mink Renato Watches Reply With Quote -18-2011 10:10 AM #15 renato1
Junior Member
Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 16 Thank you for the respone Daniel and clarifying things to some extent. My feedback on this watch is that it is wonderful size, beautiful blue onyx dial and bright diamonds. I have one and am keeping it. My concerns were never about the quality of the watch. Like I said before, I have many Renatos that cost a pretty penny, and have never traded them, sold them to anyone or sent them back to Renato. I love Renatos -- just had the concerns that I mentioned before and Renato has made many gaffes before (example: Valjoux spelled Valijoux on the dial and the cover ups regarding this gaffe including Jim Skelton's explanation that it is an alternate spelling and sending watchgeeks members to a site to legitimize his perspective, when all along this spelling was a MISTAKE.) I will continue to purchase Renatos (the ones that appeal to me) but am concerned about a number of issues that remain WELL AND ALIVE with Renato. Just saying... Reply With Quote -18-2011 11:50 AM #16 Mainspring
Senior Member Join Date Oct 2011 Posts 117
Originally Posted by renato1 Thank you for the respone Daniel and clarifying things to some extent. My feedback on this watch is that it is wonderful size, beautiful blue onyx dial and bright diamonds. I have one and am keeping it. My concerns were never about the quality of the watch. Like I said before, I have many Renatos that cost a pretty penny, and have never traded them, sold them to anyone or sent them back to Renato. I love Renatos -- just had the concerns that I mentioned before and Renato has made many gaffes before (example: Valjoux spelled Valijoux on the dial and the cover ups regarding this gaffe including Jim Skelton's explanation that it is an alternate spelling and sending watchgeeks members to a site to legitimize his perspective, when all along this spelling was a MISTAKE.) I will continue to purchase Renatos (the ones that appeal to me) but am concerned about a number of issues that remain WELL AND ALIVE with Renato. Just saying... BTW - that response of Mr. Mink's was copied from another post... Reply With Quote -18-2011 11:52 AM #17 Spinner
Member Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 86 Are you the forum police now Mainspring? Reply With Quote
-18-2011 11:55 AM #18 Mainspring
Senior Member Join Date Oct 2011 Posts 117 Originally Posted by Spinner Are you the forum police now Mainspring? No, jackass, just made an observation. Reply With Quote -18-2011 11:58 AM #19 Spinner
Member Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 86 No, jackass, just made an observation.
You seem to make a lot of "observations"..none of which that contribute anything other than "stirring the pot". It's very obvious that you have an agenda. At least admit as much and stop playing coy. Reply With Quote -18-2011 12:00 PM #20 Mainspring
Senior Member Join Date Oct 2011 Posts 117 Originally Posted by Spinner You seem to make a lot of "observations"..none of which that contribute anything other than "stirring the pot". It's very obvious that you have an agenda. At least admit as much and stop playing coy. No agenda, just a member contributing to conversation and commenting on what is posted by other members.
Last edited by Mainspring; 11-18-2011 at 12:07 PM.
The B JIM
Senior Member Join Date Sep 2011 Location Palm Beach County and St Pete Posts 821 There is always something going on and with few answers,,At least something was posted so if it was copyed then at least an answere... \ Reply With Quote 02:40 PM #22 goin4it1973
Junior Member Join Date Nov 2011 Location Minneapolis Posts
8 Salebidz.com scam Yeah having HUGE problems with them and they are only SPONSORED by Renato that is all ... if you contact Renato they have NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SITE OTHER THAN THEY SPONSOR IT, AND YOU NEED TO CONTACT INFO@SALEBIDZ.COM which I have multiple times and NOTHING ... I just tried it again and it came up with some lame excuse that I need to contact the Administrator of the site through some other way... that is the ONLY WAY they let you contact them. Well luckily my site states I have won NOTHING and OWE NOTHING.... I am going with that... I am not paying for anything... Those that were the ONLY BIDDERS you were IDIOTS to put in tons of money because 3 WINNERS>.. I won one even though my bid was only $2 but then some asshole had to come in and put $171 for a price or something like that... we both won the product at $171. But NO WHERE does it state you have to pay what the HIGHEST bid was... Well I would STAY FAR FAR AWAY FROM THIS SITE FROM NOW ON.. I THINK IT IS A SCAM AND THEY ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY AND THAT IS ALL Reply With Quote 03:53 PM #23 Billy Smith
Senior Member Join Date Sep 2011
Location St. Louis, MO Posts 564 Originally Posted by goin4it1973 Yeah having HUGE problems with them and they are only SPONSORED by Renato that is all ... if you contact Renato they have NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SITE OTHER THAN THEY SPONSOR IT, AND YOU NEED TO CONTACT INFO@SALEBIDZ.COM which I have multiple times and NOTHING ... I just tried it again and it came up with some lame excuse that I need to contact the Administrator of the site through some other way... that is the ONLY WAY they let you contact them. Well luckily my site states I have won NOTHING and OWE NOTHING.... I am going with that... I am not paying for anything... Those that were the ONLY BIDDERS you were IDIOTS to put in tons of money because 3 WINNERS>.. I won one even though my bid was only $2 but then some asshole had to come in and put $171 for a price or something like that... we both won the product at $171. But NO WHERE does it state you have to pay what the HIGHEST bid was... Well I would STAY FAR FAR AWAY FROM THIS SITE FROM NOW ON.. I THINK IT IS A SCAM AND THEY ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY AND THAT IS ALL I get that you're upset. I would be too. But posting the same thing over and over on different threads is annoying to other forum members. I'm not asking you to stop, I'm only pointing it out. Reply With Quote 04:00 PM #24
Mainspring
Senior Member Join Date Oct 2011 Posts 117 Originally Posted by goin4it1973 Yeah having HUGE problems with them and they are only SPONSORED by Renato that is all ... if you contact Renato they have NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SITE OTHER THAN THEY SPONSOR IT, AND YOU NEED TO CONTACT INFO@SALEBIDZ.COM which I have multiple times and NOTHING ... I just tried it again and it came up with some lame excuse that I need to contact the Administrator of the site through some other way... that is the ONLY WAY they let you contact them. Well luckily my site states I have won NOTHING and OWE NOTHING.... I am going with that... I am not paying for anything... Those that were the ONLY BIDDERS you were IDIOTS to put in tons of money because 3 WINNERS>.. I won one even though my bid was only $2 but then some asshole had to come in and put $171 for a price or something like that... we both won the product at $171. But NO WHERE does it state you have to pay what the HIGHEST bid was... Well I would STAY FAR FAR AWAY FROM THIS SITE FROM NOW ON.. I THINK IT IS A SCAM AND THEY ARE OUT TO MAKE MONEY AND THAT IS ALL That is nuts!
Reply With Quote 10:25 PM #25 desert rex
Member Join Date Sep 2011 Location Washington DC Posts 92 Buy a watch for your own enjoyment.Dont be too concerned with business moves Renato may make,since it's really none of our business.Too many here from other forums, are quick to pass on any negative information concerning the brand.One thing that is never picked apart on any forum is the quality delivered from Renato. Why?, because they cant.And that's all that really matters at the end of the day.I assure you before someone compliments your Renato watch,they wont request to view a company portfolio. Reply With Quote 10:59 PM #26 Bowling Alley Bandit
Member Join Date
Sep 2011 Posts 65 Originally Posted by desert rex Dont be too concerned with business moves Renato may make,since it's really none of our business Can I interest you in blood diamonds? I'm not suggesting Renato sells blood diamonds, merely pointing out your view seems naive. Consumers are routinely urged to scrutinize the ethics and business operations of businesses. "Too many here from other forums, are quick to pass on any negative information concerning the brand." If the negative information (your term) is factual, why wouldn't a consumer want to know? A smart buyer is an educated buyer. Passing information on quickly often counters the power of marketing. "One thing that is never picked apart on any forum is the quality delivered from Renato." This assertion is simply untrue and simplistic. At the NEW reduced prices, many have said Renato delivers excellent value. People have also said this at the higher price points. But don't confuse value with high quality. Many of the quartz movements used in Renato products have been branded inferior - and are the low end of ETA offerings. "Buy a watch for your own enjoyment." Absolutely correct. I hope everyone enjoys their Renato watches.