6 minute read

BENEATH THE SURFACE

What do you think is the biggest challenge facing the church today?

From my perspective, we have bought into the cultural church vision and made it the primary focus instead of having our focus on the Kingdom and God’s calling for us. When we lose sight of that [God’s calling] we become inwardly focused and there is a focus to preserve the institution and we don’t think about what God wants. We think, “Of course, we have to have all these things,” and get away from what is the kingdom work. We need to let go of what we think of as church— preserving things the way we have known. The church has become an institution instead of a place that does the work of God. Instead, it’s important to listen to God corporately in prayer.

What needs to happen in churches to bring people back to church?

I’m not sure that God wants to bring people back to what has existed before. There is a reason that the church in North America is declining. The future of the church needs to be more about the first church, it needs to look like the first church— community and care of the poor and oppressed. What it will look like will be different than what it has looked like in the past.

But I do think people are looking for meaning or purposes. The best thing we can do as the church is to get back to the basics of our faith—caring for people and community; teaching the word of God, but it can occur in small groups; and be actively involved in serving others, locally and globally. That would end up looking different in different places but those elements should exist.

What reasons do you see new people coming into church today?

People are coming for community, not to discount community that can be built online. But our bodies crave human connection—to be in community to sit together and hold hands and share lives in the same room. (Different people have this need in different degrees.) It is about having a safe space. Community will always drive this [return to church].

The other is service and mission. We have had a lot people come to our church to participate in food distribution. People want to help and needed an opportunity. Most of us are wired where we—there is something that happens internally when we put others first. There is a strong desire to lay down your self for someone else. God meets us in those places.

What would you say to someone who is “deconstructing” their faith or who has experienced spiritual trauma in a church setting?

Oh wow, it happens a lot doesn’t it? What I have said in the past has just been to try to help them separate the church, and the people in church, from God—lean into getting to know God through Christ. I will usually encourage some kind of counseling depending on the level of hurt. I have a lot of gay friends who have been really hurt by the church, and probably my participation in that as well, and trying to separate this [hurt] from the church and people—who are all sinful. Instead I encourage getting to know God on Jesus terms. I find it is very hard for people who have been hurt, if they haven’t already had deep personal experience with the Lord. It is a big leap, but it is the only thing I really have to offer.

You know, I have hurt people, and I don’t want people to associate God’s actions with my actions in those situations. That’s the hard part about leadership—we are going to mess up. So getting to know God personally, and knowing that there is hope and unconditional love there and then come back to the church with a different lens. If we get hurt, especially when we are young, we think that God did that, or this person and their perspective is what God thinks. The only way to mitigate that is to get to know God for one self and lean into what God thinks.

What’s a criticism frequently leveled at the church that you would contest?

I can think of several, but I think I would say that generally speaking it is not true that church people don’t care about social issue and justice. I say that as someone who is mostly critical on the church’s stance on social justice. The church gets labeled that way, but what I find is that most individuals in church are really compassionate and really care about how other feel and what they need. There is sometimes a disconnect that is largely forged out of politics. At my church, we did a lot with refugees. I know people in church that have a political stance to close borders but then when I work with them one on one, they give up personal belongings and teach ESL to refugees. There is a lot of brokenness in the church, but I do take hope that one on one individuals that make up the church are more compassionate than how it is labeled.

What does the church add to the Christian faith?

I think the places where the church is doing that successfully is where people are loving people into the Gospel. It’s not about thinking in numbers, but its about engaging in relationships and loving someone enough to pray for them and, at the right time, introduce people to Christ. Like we would do with a friend, in a way that does make them feel use or like we are throwing something sacred at them, like a dart.

The other thing I would say is the work I have been a part of on the mission side. I think is important for the western church, with our resources, to share across other regions where the church is really growing and where many are struggling with resources. There is really a great marriage that strengths the Church when the western church with resources partners with churches where the gospel is really moving. We learn from each other and gain kingdom focus and perspective.

What spiritual practice has made the greatest impact on your faith?

Meditation and listening. Over 20 years ago, I started going to the Ruah Center [run by Congregation of the Sisters of Charity of the INCARNATE WORD] for silent retreats and it has had a huge impact on my spiritual life. Learning the practice of active listening and being comfortable with more of a listening position.

Who are some contemporary Christian writers or speakers that you read/listen to?

Martin Schleske, The Sound of Life’s Unspeakable Beauty

Richard Foster

Lisa Sharon Harper, The Very Good Gospel