7 minute read

BENEATH THE SURFACE

Interview by Karly Noelle Abreu White

What do you think is the biggest challenge facing the church today?

One of the biggest challenges facing the church today, at least the church in the United States, is worshiping at the altar of nationalism. Jesus tells us we can’t serve two masters and we have seen that play out in “America” overshadowing the cross. With the idol of nationalism comes patriarchy, white supremacy, capitalism and greed, and the military-industrial complex. The fact that people think they are worshiping the God of Love, the Prince of Peace, and the Spirit of Reconciliation when they are worshiping country, war, and status-quo shows how pervasive and deeply ingrained this idol is in the life of the American church. Moreover, those churches who wish to speak against this idol often struggle with severe backlash or they start to define themselves by what they are not rather than by what they are. We say, “I am not that kind of Christian who [insert bigotry, hatred, and discrimination here]” or even question keeping the name Christian, instead of saying, “I am a Christian because of profound love and deep peace.”

What needs to happen in churches to bring people back to church?

I think we need to entirely stop thinking in terms of “bringing people back to the church.” Instead we need to focus on being the Church, that is: sharing the good news of the Gospel (that God loves you, yes, YOU, so deeply that God became human to intimately share this experience with us, enter fully into our suffering, and then break the cycle of that suffering and death with a resurrection that will be shared with all of this). And the good news of the Gospel isn’t good news to someone else you meet them where they are and come alongside them there. Instead of “bring people back” we need to “go to people” and build relationships and show them love where they are, as they are.

Can you be a Christian outside of a church community?

Yes and no. I think it’s more complicated than a straightforward answer. Yes, you can love God and find God outside of a church community. And, we weren’t created to be solitary creatures and that extends to our inner spiritual life. As Christians we worship a Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the three-in-one God who is in God’s self, perfect relationship. Having been made in the image of God, we could say that we were created for relationship. Relationship with the Triune God and relationship with others. We can be Christian outside a church community, yes, but we will be missing out on a core piece of what it means to be Christian: to be in relationship with others. Also, it’s hard to do faith and religion without the support of friends. It is difficult to keep our hearts open and our minds directed to God when we try and go about this faith journey by ourselves. It’s even harder to walk the path of sanctification, that is, every day getting a little better at loving God and loving our neighbor, by ourselves. Without Christian or church community (however broadly we define those things—and I do believe we have to start defining them more broadly than the traditional sense), we will not get far on this journey.

The Rev. Allison LeBrun is a United Methodist pastor, perpetually exhausted mom, and wife from Ohio. She is LGBTQ+ affirming and her favorite part of her job is telling everyone that they are beloved children of God.

The Rev. Allison LeBrun is a United Methodist pastor, perpetually exhausted mom, and wife from Ohio. She is LGBTQ+ affirming and her favorite part of her job is telling everyone that they are beloved children of God.

Where do you see authentic community taking place today, in our faith and personally?

There has been an institutional shift in my denomination to promote and encourage “faith spaces” outside of the church building. This is taking place in bowling alleys and coffee shops and playgrounds - and I think that’s awesome. I have also been surprised, personally, how much I am finding authentic faith communities online. Twitter has actually been an amazing tool for connecting with other young clergy and laity in my denomination and others. The community built there has spilled over and been able to deepen on Discord. I also know one of the central support systems in my life is a group chat on messenger!

How do you think we create more connection and less division? – how can our faith or churches bring people back together in a divisive time?

The Church has really been doing a very poor job at modeling how to have healthy conversations and disagreements. …. One small step we’ve taken at my local congregation is instituting a conflict management process that follows Matthew 18. In this process, gossip and talking about people behind their backs isn’t accepted. Complaints that start with “People have been saying…” aren’t entertained. If someone comes to me and says, “Sue is really mad at Bob,” the conversation is immediately stopped—Sue needs to go directly to Bob. If it is a matter of power dynamics then a mediator can be present for the conversation. (And of course if it was a matter of abuse, things would be different.) The basic idea is, as a culture, we are really really bad at dealing with conflict and disagreements head on and that includes in the Church. We have a better way and we can do better.

Through this process I have sat down with people I vehemently disagree with and we’ve talked about where we are coming from and how we see things—we aren’t there to change each other’s minds but to understand the other better. This has been a game changer in my relationships with people I disagree with. If you disagree with me and only talk behind my back—well, that will only cause further harm in our relationship. But if you sit down and talk with me? That’s where we begin to love each other better and bring about more connection and less division.

How is the church today a force for good in the world?

Henri Nouwen wrote this in his book Letters to Marc About Jesus: “It’s very important for you to realize that perhaps the greater part of God’s work in this world may go unnoticed.” What makes headlines is all the times we get it wrong, all the idols that have taken over the church, when pastors and congregations are totally wedded to nationalism, when maliciousness is more present than love… And, as a whole, Christians need to be called out and held accountable for that. And, when we’re talking about the good that God does through the church for the world there is so much that we don’t see. In my community, on any given day, I may know that a friend calls a grieving widow. A meal is made for someone who is sick. Money is sent to an orphanage. A city park is cleaned. A survivor of domestic violence is given safe shelter. A flood bucket is put together. And so much more that I don’t know about. All of this is being done because these people are members of a faith community and are striving to love as God loves. There are faithful Christians, all over the world, doing the quiet, hidden work of loving God and loving neighbor—and striving to do it a little better with each and every day. We may not see it, we will never see it all, and it is happening—a force of good for the world, doing the work of God, sharing the love of God, all over the world.