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Twenty to 30 feet. But the mud overburden is a lot more? Nine or 10 feet of mud. Is that the only promising site that’s being looked at down there? Four or 5 other sites. But that one’s getting the main attention. That’s the first, yes. How about the Capitana [of 1654]? Has that been worked out, do you think? I think it’s been worked out. Where I want to go now is into your numismatic interests over the years. You’ve been accurately known as an accomplished numismatist among divers, kind of a rare breed; could you please describe some of the things you’ve had an interest in over the years. Thanks to Bob Nesmith, soon as we started finding all the silver coins, we decided we needed to keep a record of them. When we first found them, we’d take them in to coin shops, but they never saw them [before], didn’t know what they were. So we decided we needed to put them up for auction. Henry Christensen and Harvey Stack set up auctions, started selling the coins, trying to get people interested in them. When we first started selling the coins, they’d sell for $25-$30 apiece. Today a good 1715[-Fleet] coin, undated, will bring $125. A full dated coin will bring $400 or $500. What’s amazing is that of the nearly 100,000 coins we picked up, it’s hard to find 1715[-Fleet] coins. They disappeared into collectors’ hands. What was your role, then, in the auctions that took place? I helped attribute the coins. Also I found…different ways to clean coins, learned how to clean coins (I think) better than anyone else. Did you have numismatic interests before the coins were found on the 1715 Fleet? I used to collect American large cents. I had some numismatic interest in American type-coins and large pennies. Do you still collect anything besides the shipwreck coins? Not really. What do you see as the future of shipwreck salvage in general, particularly concerning government involvement and deepwater salvage with robotics? Well, I think deepwater salvage is here…[S.S.] Central America [1857] is a good example of that. I think the government sees it as a new source of money. They’re going to try to grab control of it. Spain has competed with the United States over warships here to the north of us. What do you think that means for collectors? They just want to collect coins. What’ll happen is it’ll go underground. When it becomes a situation, though, where you have to salvage in deep water and spend a lot of money to run a robot and crew and that kind of thing, these days we seem to be seeing companies that spend a lot of money and have big companies to manage and do things very promotionally to make up for it—do you think that’s the future of it, or do you think it will go underground, as you say, with that type of operation? The governments…will put unreasonable rules and restrictions on them and it will go underground. If they don’t,
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they will go out of business. That leads into your experience with Ecuador. Did you partake in any of the negotiations with the government of Ecuador? Joel Ruth did most of that. Now we have a good relationship with that government. I see that as an example of a government that is doing things properly and constructively, working with the divers and the salvage company. True. The Ecuadorians feel the Spanish stole from them anyhow. Good point. Are there any other governments that seem to have a good mindset like Ecuador? Cuba does. Cuba does? That’s surprising. You never see shipwreck coins from Cuba, though. Do they just stay in Cuba? Mostly stay in Cuba. Do you see a future for shipwreck salvage in Cuban waters? I think once the United States gets its head out of the sand, then it’ll become a very fertile ground. Well then at that point do you think Cuba will allow the coins to go elsewhere? I think so. To bring in revenue for their country? I think so. That’s interesting. What about the Bahamas? Do you see any future for the Bahamas? They’ve been kind of off and on. I’m not sure what’s going to happen there. What was your relationship with the Maravillas salvagers, Humphreys and them? Did you assist them in any way numismatically? I attributed the coins and cleaned them. Very interesting story, how I got involved with them. Herbo Humphreys sent John de Bry a box of jewelry coins they were going to sell for about $100 apiece. John gave them to me to attribute. I found one coin there worth about $5000. I called Herbo Humphreys and said “do you really want to sell these for $100 apiece? I’ll buy them all. I got one coin in here that is worth four or five thousand dollars.” He says “you’re kidding!” He flew me up there, and I sold the coin for him the next day. [Laughing] So did you get to buy the whole box for $100 each? No. About 40 coins, half of them were worth two-three hundred dollars. What role have you taken in marketing over the years for the various shipwreck coins you’ve handled. I’ve worked with Stack’s, Henry Christensen, Ponterio, Frank and Dan Sedwick. Of course! It pays to know what you’re doing and know the right people to deal with, I guess. That’s for sure. I’m sure a lot of divers over the years have depended on your connections. I’ve enjoyed it. Still work with Dan Sedwick a lot [laughs]. Do you miss the diving much? Was that one of your favorite aspects? Yeah I do miss the diving. It sounds like camaraderie with the Real Eight gentlemen was also quite enjoyable. Sure was.