FEATURING:
HOW THE BAR PLANS TO CELEBRATE ITS 125TH ANNIVERSARY THIS YEAR
A NEW SHINY TOOL: Generative AI and the Practice of Law
CASTING ABOUT: Highlighting Local Legal Community Focused Podcasts
The San Diego County Bar Association’s Lawyer Referral and Information Service (LRIS) connected over 60,000 qualified clients with participating attorneys in 2023, resulting in nearly eight million dollars in legal fees earned. You could be one of those attorneys in 2024.
The public trusts LRIS as the reliable way get connected with qualified attorneys. Lawyers trust LRIS too, because we carefully pre-screen potential clients to ensure we only send you referrals that match well with your practice area.
Practically speaking, LRIS offers you the most cost-effective way to gain high-quality clients, hands down. The cost is much lower than other marketing methods, including advertising, SEO, listing/rating services, you name it (lower still with the highly-discounted LRIS enrollment fee offered to SDCBA members — your membership will immediately pay for itself).
Best of all, by participating in LRIS, you will be helping clients access quality legal services they wouldn’t find otherwise — a true win-win.
Request your LRIS application: 619.321.4150 or LRIS@sdcba.org
'' After his accident, I referred Peter to Casey Gerry because he needed help from real lawyers. After they battled for him, they achieved the largest settlement in San Diego history against the U.S. government in a motor vehicle accident for $70 million dollars. I am so happy for Peter that I got him over to Casey Gerry. They made all the difference.
'' Before referring my clients to Casey Gerry, it was important to know that they understood the value and the serious brain injury case and could handle going up against the United States of America as a defendant. They agreed with me that it could be an 8-figure case and they followed through to make that happen. I'm glad for my clients that I made the decision to refer them to Casey Gerry."
ATTORNEY JOHN REENAN
ATTORNEY JONATHAN COLBY
'' When I selected a firm to work with me in representing the Tony Gwynn family against the dip tobacco industry, in this groundbreaking case, I needed a firm with gravitas, detailed knowledge of sophisticated legal doctrines, and the ability to take on one of the most challenging corporate entities in the United States. My decision was to select Casey Gerry for the Gwynn family, I'm glad I did. They were great to work with
ATTORNEY DON TREMBLAY
Looking for an expert who is qualified to give legal testimony or offer consultation, litigation, or dispute resolution services? Visit the SDCBA’s brand new online directory to find your next expert. Our online search makes it simple to identify providers with the right expertise for your needs.
www.Firststopexperts.com/sdcba
The San Diego County Bar Association wants to thank all of the San Diego law firms, public agencies, and nonprofit legal organizations that have provided SDCBA membership to 100% of their attorneys in 2024. Your commitment to the San Diego legal community is greatly appreciated.
100% Club member list as of April 2024
Allen Matkins Leck Gamble Mallory & Natsis LLP
Allen, Semelsberger & Kaelin, LLP
Ames Karanjia LLP
Antonyan Miranda, LLP
Appellate Defenders, Inc.
Astuno Sabel Law PC
Atkinson, Andelson, Loya, Ruud & Romo
Beamer, Lauth, Steinley & Bond, LLP
Beatrice L. Snider, APC
Bender Kurlander Hernandez & Campbell, APC
Best Best & Krieger, LLP
BioMed Realty
Blackmar, Principe & Schmelter APC
Blanchard Krasner & French
Bobbitt, Pinckard & Fields, APC
Brierton Jones & Jones, LLP
Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney PC
Burton Kelley, LLP
Butterfield Schechter LLP
Case Harvey Fedor
Casey Gerry
Chalifoux, Brast, Thompson & Potocki APC
Christensen & Spath LLP
Cohelan Khoury & Singer
Dean Gazzo Roistacher LLP
Devaney Pate Morris & Cameron, LLP
Dietz, Gilmor & Chazen, APC
District Attorney’s Office of San Diego
Donald R. Holben & Associates, APC
Duckor Metzger & Wynne ALC
Fennemore
Ferris & Britton, APC
Fitzgerald Knaier LLP
Flanagan Law, APC
Fleischer & Ravreby
Gatzke Dillon & Ballance LLP
Genesis Family Law, APC
Goodwin Brown Gross & Lovelace LLP
Green Bryant & French, LLP
Greene & Roberts LLP
Grimm, Vranjes Greer Stephan & Bridgman LLP
Gruenberg Law
Hahn Loeser & Parks, LLP
Henderson, Caverly & Pum, LLP
Higgs Fletcher & Mack LLP
Hoffman & Forde
Hooper, Lundy & Bookman, PC
Horton Oberrecht & Kirkpatrick, APC
Hughes & Pizzuto, APC
Jackson Lewis PC
Judkins, Glatt & Rich LLP
Karen D. Wood & Associates
Kennedy & Souza, APC
Klinedinst PC
Koeller Nebeker Carlson & Haluck LLP
Kriger Law Firm
Legal Aid Society of San Diego, Inc.
Lincoln Gustafson & Cercos LLP
Macdonald & Cody, LLP
McCloskey Waring Waisman & Drury LLP
McDougal Boehmer Foley Lyon Mitchell & Erickson
Miller, Monson, Peshel, Polacek & Hoshaw
Mintz Levin
MoginRubin LLP
Moore, Schulman & Moore, APC
Musick, Peeler & Garrett LLP
Neil, Dymott & Hudson, APLC
Niddrie | Addams | Fuller | Singh LLP
Noonan Lance Boyer & Banach LLP
Office of the Carlsbad City Attorney
Office of the Public Defender
Office of the San Diego City Attorney
Pettit Kohn Ingrassia Lutz & Dolin PC
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
Preovolos Lewin, ALC
Procopio, Cory, Hargreaves & Savitch LLP
Quarles
San Diego County Counsel
San Diego Unified Port District
Schor Vogelzang & Chung LLP
Schwartz Semerdjian Cauley Schena & Bush LLP
Seltzer|Caplan|McMahon|Vitek ALC
Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton LLP
Shustak Reynolds & Partners, PC
Siegel, Moreno & Settler, APC
Solomon Minton Cardinal Doyle & Smith LLP
Solomon Ward Seidenwurm & Smith, LLP
Stokes Wagner, ALC
Sullivan, McGibbons, Crickard & Associates, LLP
Thorsnes Bartolotta McGuire LLP
Tresp, Day & Associates, Inc.
Walsh McKean Furcolo LLP
Webb Law Group, APC
Wilson Turner Kosmo LLP
Winet Patrick Gayer Creighton & Hanes ALC
Wirtz Law APC
Witham Mahoney & Abbott, LLP
Withers Bergman LLP
Wright, L'Estrange & Ergastolo
Issue no. 2. San Diego Lawyer® (ISSN: 1096-1887) is published bimonthly by the San Diego County Bar Association, 330 A Street, San Diego, CA 92101. Phone is (619) 231-0781.
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Stacey: Hi Crystal, thank you so much for joining me today. I am thrilled to introduce you to our SDCBA members, and to discuss some of the exciting events and updates happening with the SDCBA this year.
Crystal: Thank you. It’s an honor to be joining the SDCBA team.
Stacey: You earned a Master’s Degree in Nonprofit Management and Leadership, and a PhD in Leadership Studies from USD. What drove you to pursue degrees specific to nonprofit leadership?
Crystal: Education is one of my core values, and I consider myself a life-long learner. As I started my career in the nonprofit sector more than 20 years ago, I received a brochure about a new Masters in Nonprofit Management and Leadership at USD. It was the perfect opportunity for me to expand my skills while applying common practices and theoretical underpinnings of the nonprofit sector in my everyday work. At about the same time I finished the masters program, I started my consulting firm, CT Nonprofit Consulting and focused on supporting a variety of nonprofit organizations with board governance, strategic planning, program development, assessment, and even nonprofit formation. Fast-forward a decade or so, and I found myself again at USD, this time as a PhD student enrolled in the Leadership Studies doctoral program. I’ve always wanted to teach, so earning a PhD seemed like a logical next step. I chose an emphasis on nonprofits and philanthropy because of my work in the sector.
Stacey: What inspired you to start a career in the nonprofit sector?
Crystal: When I was in college, nonprofit programs didn’t really exist like they do today. Nowadays, students can choose from minors, majors, masters, and doctoral programs
that focus on the nonprofit sector. It’s really incredible. So, I feel like my journey is typical of most people my age who are in the sector in that they just found their way and never looked back. I initially planned on a career that focused on diplomacy work in the Middle East. While finishing up my undergraduate program at San Diego State, I learned about a semester program at the American University focused on the Arab-Israeli conflict. My major was Political Science with a minor in Middle Eastern studies and I jumped at the opportunity to not only experience D.C., but to also travel to Israel, Palestine, and Egypt as part of the program. After I returned to San Diego and graduated, I landed a job with a nonprofit that worked with the U.S. Department of State. Since that time, I have held leadership positions at several nonprofits and have loved every minute of it.
Stacey: It is clear you have a passion for learning. I was recently made aware that you also have passion for teaching. You teach Nonprofit Theory and Practice and Board Development at USD and Management of Nonprofit Organizations at UCSD. What makes you so passionate about teaching?
Crystal: What I love about teaching is that not only am I sharing my knowledge and expertise with my students, but I am constantly learning from them. I call myself a “pracademic” which is a combination of practitioner and academic. What I bring to my students is the academic side of learning with theory, frameworks, and approaches and the practitioner side that applies the theoretical ideas to real-world organizations. I take the same approach with my consulting and focus on educating my clients and working with them to apply practical solutions that work for their particular organization.
Stacey: Your abundance of experience in nonprofit work is very impressive. This will be your fourth stint in an interim leadership role – having served in that capacity previously at the San Diego Children’s Discovery Museum, The Kidney Trust, and HandsOn San Diego. Why do you enjoy working in nonprofit leadership roles?
Crystal: What attracts me to this work is that I get to play a pivotal role for organizations during a time of transition. Being an interim puts me in a unique position to look at the organization objectively. I’m able to identify activities, processes, and systems that may have always been done a certain way, but no longer serve the organization. I find this work very fulfilling.
Stacey: Given all of your knowledge and experience in the nonprofit sector, what do you think makes the SDCBA a unique organization?
Crystal: What’s unique about the SDCBA is its longevity. I’ve learned that you are celebrating 125 years this year. That’s amazing, especially since many nonprofits in our region are considered “babies” compared to that.
Stacey: : We are very excited and feel fortunate to be celebrating our 125th Anniversary this year. As you are witnessing, the Association has such amazing employees who go above and beyond to keep the organization strong and prosperous. The Association also has a history of electing talented and hard-working board members, and, most importantly, we have the best members! You will get to meet many of them when our building opens later this Spring. Speaking of our new building, what do you think our members can look forward to most about our new building at 330 A. Street — are there any surprises in store for them?
Crystal: I’ve spent some time in the new space and it’s going to be beautiful. It’s got a fresh, modern vibe that I think the members will enjoy. I don’t know if it’s a secret, but there is a special space on the rooftop that I think will be in demand.
Stacey: As a Board, we made a concerted effort to find a space where our members could gather, collaborate, and feel a sense of community. From what you know of our many other member benefits, what would you tell our members about why they should continue to renew their membership?
Crystal: I learned recently that a past SDCBA tagline was “Be where you belong.” I think the SDCBA is very much a place where members can feel they belong. Members not only have a physical space where they can feel welcome with the new office, but they also have networks and relationships that they can belong to in this legal
community. What I’ve seen over a short period of time is that members enjoy being with each other, and they have a passion for the legal profession. To me, these are valuable reasons to become, and to continue to be, a member.
Stacey: Now that you have your feet wet in the world of legal nonprofit work, what impact do you see that the SDCBA has on the legal community and community at-large?
Crystal: The SDCBA has so much to offer. The Lawyer Referral and Information System is an amazing benefit to the San Diego region, the practice-focused workshops are high caliber, and the in-person events are popular. However, I believe it’s the people of the SDCBA, the dedicated employees and committed volunteers, that comprise the most important asset we have to offer our community. Our employees are top-notch professionals, and our volunteers are experts in their fields. It’s a winning combination.
Stacey: I completely agree. Given that it is Women's History Month, I first want to tell you how thrilled I am for us to be leading the Association together side-by-side in its 125th year.
Crystal: I learned about gender bias from a very young age growing up in a big Italian family. As a young girl, I wasn’t encouraged to have a career which resulted in many of what I would call “heated discussions” between me and my dad. Over the years, I’ve been in many situations where being a woman was not easy. For example, when I trained to earn my private pilot’s license, I learned that at the time only 7% of all pilots in the U.S. were female. For women in the nonprofit sector, according to BoardSource and a recent study by Drexel University, women make up approximately 72% of leadership positions, yet are paid almost 9% less than their male counterparts. So, my advice to anyone is to speak up when you see inequities happening in your spheres of influence, and hold leaders accountable for change.
Stacey: Thank you so much for going on this adventure with us. The SDCBA is lucky to have you during this transition period. I am grateful to have you as a partner to collaborate with on this journey.
Dr. Crystal Trull is the Principal of CT Consulting and a lecturer at the University of San Diego and University of California San Diego. Her consulting clients include small, all-volunteer run to large complex organizations. She teaches graduate courses on nonprofit management and governance and her research areas focus on nonprofit governance, regulation, and social enterprise earned income programs. Crystal has been in San Diego since 1976 and is an active community volunteer. She is a mom of three teenagers and is hoping that 2024 will be the year her avocado trees produce fruit.
The SDCBA gratefully acknowledges the generous commitment of members who support our community at the Patron and Friend membership levels. You can become a Patron or Friend member when you activate or renew your membership online, or by request at any time. For more information about upgrading, please contact mbr@sdcba.org.
Patron and Friend member lists as of April 2024
Marc D. Adelman
Alicia Aquino
Danielle Patricia Barger
Hon. Victor E. Bianchini (Ret.)
Jedd E. Bogage
Tanisha Bostick
James A. Bush
Andy Cook
Steven T. Coopersmith
Ezekiel E. Cortez
Taylor Darcy
Warren K. Den
John A. Don
William O. Dougherty
Alexander Isaac Dychter
James J. Eischen Jr.
Matthew J. Faust
Sergio Feria
Nicholas J. Fox
James P. Frantz
Michelle Ann Gastil
Douglas A. Glass
Alvin M. Gomez
Stephen M. Hogan
Ted Holmquist
Emily Howe
A. Melissa Johnson
Stacey A. Kartchner
Carla B. Keehn
Laila Khosroabadi
Garrison "Bud" Klueck
Kevin Timothy May
Hon. William McCurine, Jr.
Jillian M. Minter
Virginia C. Nelson
Deborah A. Ortega
Anthony J. Passante
Frank J. Polek
Kristin Rizzo
Ana M. Sambold
Seana Kelly Scholtemeyer
Khodadad Darius Sharif
Elisabeth Silva
David G. Sizemore
Christopher J. Sunnen
Genevieve A. Suzuki
Cassandra C. Thorson
Bill VanDeWeghe
Thomas J. Warwick
Lenden F. Webb
Jon Webster
Daniel Weiner
Andrew H. Wilensky
Timothy G. Williams
Karen M. ZoBell
Pedro Bernal Bilse
James Gregory Boyd
Linda Cianciolo
Susanne de la Flor
David B. Dugan
Robert F. Egenolf
Mark Kaufman
Randall E. Kay
Philip John Mauriello
Valeria Medina
Anne Perry
Kristi E. Pfister
Michelle L. Silva
Hon. Stephanie Sontag
Peter B. Tentler
Michael A. Van Horne
My mother instilled in me the importance of choosing a career involving service to others. Every career has its challenges. During those difficult times in your career when you feel like giving up, the mission or act of service should sustain you.
My mother’s lesson first led me to a career as a fourthgrade mathematics teacher. In this profession, the impact I felt I was making was not enough to personally sustain me through the systemic challenges of public education. To know me is to know the God I serve. I prayed, asking how I could make a bigger impact while serving, and the word “lawyer” came to mind.
Entering into the world of law as a first-generation American, I experienced the unknown. That law school is intellectually stimulating should come as no surprise. But unless you have personally attended law school, it is impossible to adequately describe how challenging it is. I wanted to quit. I did not feel worthy. I was faced with a decision to slow down my course load, adding an extra year of schooling. How others would perceive this and my own thoughts of failure rang in my mind. Some advised me to reconsider a legal career. I could not fathom helping others in this career, when internally I thought, I cannot even help myself.
My mother’s philosophy about career choice felt like abstract words at this point. How could I turn these abstract words into a sustaining reality? My answer in this particular situation was the Thomas Jefferson School of Law Academic Success and Bar Preparation Department. The acts of service I received from the professors there enabled my growth. These professors taught strategies
for studying law that I lacked as a first-generation law student. More than that, they allowed me the space to vent and helped me overcome the stress of law school.
The legal profession is full of helpers. The most successful attorneys I know are ones who have a heart of service. It is inspiring entering a field full of empathetic helpers, including those ASP/BP professors. These professors’ passion for their work and acts of service are helping me to become the best future attorney I can be. My future clients deserve this passion, sense of advocacy, and empathy.
My law school experience became more than abstract words, and I can now imagine again being of service. I plan on carving a path to becoming a phenomenal tax attorney. Financial literacy was important in my house, but many do not have adequate financial knowledge. In reading “The Whiteness of Wealth” by Dorothy A. Brown, I was able to learn and understand how the tax system affected Black Americans in particular. Reading about how the system was used to further oppression furthered my interest in the area. The statistics and facts motivated me to form my “why” reasoning for being an attorney that is outside of monetary value.
My question to you, student or future lawyer, is simple: Who do you plan to serve?
Derek Dente (denteds@tjsl.edu) is currently in his final semester at Thomas Jefferson School of Law. He intends to pursue his LLM in Taxation after successfully passing the California Bar exam. In his recent spare time, he has been enjoying reading the Dune series by Frank Herbert.
San Diego Lawyer welcomes article submissions from practicing attorneys and industry experts on various lawrelated topics. Interested contributors can view guidelines and submit their ideas using the form at www.sdcba.org/ SDLidea. We also highly encourage the participation of diverse authors, including (but not limited to) people who have less than five years of legal practice, women, people of color, people with disabilities, and people who identify as LGBTQ+. Please read posted submission criteria carefully. Publication cannot be guaranteed, but the SDCBA appreciates and will consider all article submissions.
A recurring series where fictional characters discuss real ethics scenarios Macbeth, a long-recognized expert in legal ethics, professional responsibility, and the law of lawyering is joined by his nephew Duncan and Sara, the very bright newest member of the firm
Witness Preparation Within Ethical Bounds
Duncan: “Macbeth and Sara, I’ve invited Eric, the lawyer I mentor, to join us.”
“Welcome, Eric.”
“A great mentor. He thought I’d benefit from your collective wisdom.”
“We’re here to help.”
“About to prepare my first witness. For deposition. Then defend him at the depo. Suggestions?”
“An exciting time in your career. A bit of background might help.”
“Client’s a small business. Also, its owner. Suit against a big corporation. Breach of contract. Theft of trade secrets.”
“The witness?”
“The owner. Talented businessman. Experienced. Sophisticated.”
“Perfect. How can we help?”
“I need to get him ready. Then defend him at the depo. But don’t want to cross any line.”
“Wonderful attitude. Sara?”
“Start with the obvious. He must testify truthfully. Fundamental. Also, false testimony, even at a deposition, puts you in an ethical bind. Under rule 3.3, a depo counts.”
Eric nods. “Understood.”
Macbeth: “Any concern your client may shade the truth?”
“No. Convinced he’s got the upper hand. Facts on his side. I don’t disagree.”
“Great. Still, I’d remind him. During preparation. Again, before the deposition. He’s under oath. Must tell the truth. For practical reasons as well.”
Duncan: “Nothing worse than confronted at trial with a lie. Even a half-truth.”
Macbeth: “We can’t counsel or assist a client to engage in criminal or fraudulent conduct. Being truthful under oath clearly fits.”
“He understands. But I’ll remind him.”
Sara added: “He should realize ‘I don’t recall’ can be a truthful answer. If he doesn’t recall, nothing’s worse than a guess.”
Eric nodded. “Other pitfalls to avoid?”
“You might remind him the other side is entitled to evidence he has or knows — assuming a question calls for it. Half-truths don’t do it. Also, don’t work in the long run.”
Macbeth: “Excellent point. Eric, we have a booklet. Give it to clients to prepare to testify. You’re welcome to it. Produce it to the other side if you wish. Makes a nice exhibit, in fact. It emphasizes the client will tell the truth. But covers other areas like ‘listening to the question.’ ‘The obnoxious questioner.’ Such like.”
“That’s great. Thanks.”
“If you have suggestions, please tell us. We continue to update. Now, let’s turn to the day itself. The deposition.”
“Perfect.”
“The booklet helps here as well. But let’s focus on a few issues.”
Eric nods.
“Talk to your client in advance about confidential information the other lawyer may seek. See if he’s willing to give informed consent to its disclosure. And within what limits.”
“Wouldn’t have thought of that. Especially in advance.”
“We’ve the obligation to protect a client’s confidential information. Absent informed consent. Discussing it with him up front is consistent with that obligation. May also forestall a lot of unnecessary back-and-forth on the record once the deposition starts.”
“I will.”
“Then try to get the other lawyer to agree. Your client’s disclosure of confidential information is not a blanket waiver. He maintains his right to keep other information confidential.”
Eric makes a note.
Sara stepped in: “Then comes the pernicious ‘speaking objection.’ The bane of every deposition.”
Duncan added: “That also raises ethical questions.”
He turned to Eric. “You look quizzical.”
“Well —”
“The ‘speaking objection’ is often a tactic for a lawyer to coach a witness. While testifying. Practice rules don’t permit it. But that kind of coaching may violate our nonobstruction and candor obligations.”
Macbeth nodded. “It often comes so close to the line. Borders on suggesting to a witness in the midst of testimony to testify falsely. Or at least hedge the truth. Some lawyers cross the line and don’t look back. But ethically, it differs little from telling a witness in advance to give false testimony. Ethically, we can’t do either.”
Duncan added: “Judges pick up on it right away. Hate it. And it creates unwanted impressions for the lawyer who tries it.”
Eric closed his notes.
Macbeth: “Consider our conversation. We’d be delighted to continue with more suggestions.”
“Thanks. All of you.”
Editor’s Note: The rules to which Macbeth’s team referred are rule 3.3; rule 1.6; 1.4; and 1.2.1.
Edward McIntyre (edmcintyre@ethicsguru.law) is a professional responsibility lawyer.
CALL THE LEGAL ETHICS HOTLINE: (619) 231-0781 x4145
The SDCBA Legal Ethics committee is here to help! SDCBA members can call our Legal Ethics Hotline* for guidance and perspective on a variety of ethical considerations in the practice of law. Your call will be taken by a seasoned attorney with significant experience in legal ethics issues.
Simply call the hotline and leave a message with your phone number, your question, and any context you can provide that can help our attorneys research your question before responding. One of our Legal Ethics Committee members will call you back to discuss your question with you.
*Before calling, please read the following disclosure: https://www.sdcba.org/docDownload/47105.
Computer users have a broad choice of search engines, including Microsoft’s Bing, Yahoo!, and DuckDuckGo. By far, the dominant player is Google with approximately 87% of the U.S. market. Larry Paige and Sergey Brin, two Stanford students, launched Google in 1998. Uniquely, it used a PageRank algorithm that ranked websites in search engine results by the number of internet links that pointed to them. The theory was that the number of sites that linked to a particular page was evidence the target page was a reliable answer. Websites with many quality backlinks were considered more authoritative and ranked higher in the search results. Although the algorithm has been modified over the years, that is the essence of it.
With the advent of chatbots, large language models (LLMs), and artificial intelligence (AI), commentators suggest alternatives to Google, arguing its methodology is outdated with the advent of AI. Some use ChatGPT for searching, and there are numerous competitors in development. Perplexity AI (https://www.perplexity.ai/) is one competitor, an “LLM-powered answer engine.” On its homepage, you simply type a question in the search box. The system responds with a simple and easily understood answer. Even in the free version, you can see footnotes that link to the sites supporting the answer. I asked Perplexity how it works, and it described its methodology as “utilizing advance technologies, such as natural language processing (NLP), machine learning models, and real-time indexing, to understand user questions in everyday language and provide relevant answers. It harnesses the power of OpenAI’s GPT-3.5 language model, enabling nuance understanding and generation of text.”
TECHNOLOGY BY BILL KAMMERThis is just one of the new Chatbots. But if you need an endorsement, Jensen Huang, legendary founder of Nvidia, told Techopedia (https://www.techopedia.com/techcelebrities-are-big-fans-of-perplexity.ai-heres-why) it is his preferred search engine. Try it — the AI equivalent of life before the web and a parent’s admonition to go look it up in the dictionary, encyclopedia, etc.
Although Zoom rose to a position of dominance early in the pandemic years as a platform for conversations and collaboration, Microsoft’s Teams slowly surpassed it as Microsoft distributed its 365 family of products. By the middle of 2023, Microsoft had about 43% of the worldwide market while no other company, including Zoom, exceeded 7%. That is the present situation and probably the situation in most law offices. As always, cybersecurity remains a concern, especially because the criminals are now using Teams for their trickery. Because Teams permits messages from outside an organization to Teams users, cybercriminals are using that backdoor to send phishing emails. Their bag of tricks includes the usual attachments in PDF disguise that contain malicious files. This attack is not exclusive to Teams, but there is a distinct possibility that the convenience and casualness of Teams increases the risks. Users may not be as alert to these exploits as they might be if they arrived by email. KnowBe4 is a prominent provider of security awareness training. You can read more about this danger on its blog (https://blog.knowbe4.com/microsoft-teams-phishingattacks) While there, you can sign up for regular alerts of new scans.
No matter what chatbot or AI service you try or use, first read the fine print of the software. In Microsoft’s Azure OpenAI Services, your inputs (“prompts”) and outputs are not available to other users or OpenAI, or to improve or train OpenAI’s models or Microsoft’s products. However, by default, Microsoft permits its AI Services employees to detect and mitigate abuse by reviewing the customers’ prompts and training data. They do so as they attempt to provide content filtering and abuse monitoring. You can avoid this possibility by paying for a higher level of Azure OpenAI. You can read more in Casey Flaherty’s article on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-data-privacyconcern-microsoft-employees-might-review-flahertyrexbe/)
Once known as groupware, collaborative software as we know it probably dates to the late ’80s. You could date it to the development of Internet Relay Chat (IRC) at about that point. Or to AOL’s chat rooms common in the ’90s before the world flocked to the internet. But by 1997,
more than half of internet users accessed the internet with AOL’s dial-up software. In the ’90s, the software included applications such as Lotus Notes, Microsoft Exchange Server, and Outlook.
But we are now in an era of modern collaborative software such as Teams, Google Drive, and Slack. These applications provide video conferencing, discussion boards, and chat channels among other features. If you are involved in electronic discovery, you may have paid little attention 10 years ago to their potential trove of ESI. Yet, they were there at the time though perhaps little used and investigated. The situation is different now, and 2024 is the 10th anniversary of Slack, one of the most popular along with Teams. Wired magazine has an interesting podcast discussion and transcript (https:// www wired com/story/gadget-lab-podcast-631/ ) about the development and history of Slack.
by EDWARD McINTYRE
y now most have heard of generative artificial intelligence (AI), if not by that name. ChatGPT has become infamous in legal circles. Lawyers filed pleadings touting nonexistent cases, with citations that looked real.
However, backing away from horror stories and setting aside reluctance to dig into new, sometimes scary technology: Does generative AI — what ChatGPT and other platforms are all about — present lawyers unique opportunities?
In short, can we benefit from generative AI? 1 To test that option, let’s briefly discuss artificial intelligence through its permutations to generative AI. Then, consider potential benefits.
What is AI? A machine — think computer system — that simulates human intelligence processes. Simply put, computers use math — algorithms — to do useful things. How many meters in a mile? A computer will tell you.
Next, what is machine learning. Models that “learn” and adapt from the success of outputs, with minimal human intervention. These systems employ complex networks of algorithms, so-called “neural networks”— attempts to simulate human brain functions.
Then came generative AI. What are its differences?
It’s an AI system that’s capable of generating text, images, and other media in response to prompts. The models learn patterns and structures of data that’s input and generate new data with similar characteristics. We have “G”— generative: it produces new output; “P”— pre-trained: it learned from datasets; and “T”— transformer: a type of deep learning model that, for example, processes and analyzes language exceptionally well.
In other words, generative AI is a type of artificial intelligence that generates new content that is not previously existing. How? It learns the underlying patterns and structures of particular datasets; then, it generates new content making probability-based predictions from the original data. 2
Data from where? In short, everywhere. It employs a large language model (LLM), having scarfed up data from public datasets (essentially anything and everything available online, copyrighted or not); private datasets (that individuals or organizations collected for proprietary use); user-generated content (e.g., social media posts, etc.); custom data (e.g., medical AI trained with a dataset of medical images); and synthetic data (computer graphics or simulation techniques).
When using Lexis or Westlaw, the lawyer selects the dataset to be examined (for example, “cases,” “California,” “state”). Then, through trial and error, creates and refines queries. The application responds with a list of potential answers. A critical difference, however, between that search and ChatGPT: Lexis and Westlaw do not generate new content; they simply respond with data in their datasets. With generative AI, on the other hand, the user does not dictate what datasets to query; the application goes where it will. Most importantly, it responds with full-sentenced paragraphs of content it generates predicated on patterns in its datasets.
Where may generated AI fit into law practice? It can do eDiscovery and document review at lightning speed, in full-bodied responses — potentially finding relevant information at speeds no current technology can match. It has the potential to efficiently organize and categorize unimaginably immense datasets — intelligently analyzing, e.g., deposition or trial testimony, based on a lawyer’s prompts, in minutes, not hours or days. It can draft memoranda, do research, do predictive analytics, and maintain or integrate schedules and other matrixes. New uses appear almost daily.
As the horror stories underscore, lawyers must review generative AI’s output for accuracy,
no different than work product a paraprofessional or other lawyer produces.
Generative AI’s benefits? Speed, efficiency, and ability to master vast amounts of data.
Will it replace personnel and positions? Likely. Will it also create new positions? Also, likely — employees with precisely the skill sets necessary to understand and employ this tool.
Can generative AI reduce personnel and office space costs? Yes. Can it reduce client costs in performing repetitive tasks at lightning speed? Properly employed, it appears it can.
Like it or not, we’ve entered a new era.
1. Remembering rule 1.1’s ethical obligation to keep abreast of changes in the risks and benefits in technology.
2. I must acknowledge experts at ERDM and other friends for helping me understand this new technology.
When your client has:
• A difficult employment claim,
• A conflict between a board and its executive team,
• Disagreements among owners or companies,
• Unsatisfied investors,
• Problems between a lender and a borrower,
...or other similar disputes that arise, your mediator should understand litigation and business.
Edward McIntyre (edmcintyre@ethicsguru.law) is a professional responsibility lawyer.
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andace M. Carroll was a pillar of the San Diego community for over 40 years until her passing on January 24, 2024, at age 79, from leukemia. Known for her brilliance as an appellate attorney, her tireless advocacy for justice and equality, and her generous spirit, she made the city she called home a better place through her legacy of service.
Born in Ohio, Candace spent much of her childhood in Washington, D.C., before attending George Washington University. Her college years were marked by perseverance, as she alternated between working to pay tuition and taking classes. With the help of a beloved professor, she obtained a partial scholarship and graduated Phi Beta Kappa despite the challenges. Candace went on to attend Duke Law School on a full scholarship, where she met her husband, Len Simon. Her academic excellence continued, graduating at the top of her class and serving as editor of the Duke Law Journal. In the words of Kerry Abrams, Duke Law’s dean since 2018, “Candy was unstoppable. She became an incredibly accomplished appellate lawyer while also remaining deeply committed to her community. She helped the next generation of Duke law students in every possible way, by supporting them with scholarships, volunteering her time to serve on our Board, and even teaching courses in advanced legal writing. I feel so grateful to have known her.”
In 1974, at a time when female lawyers faced uphill battles, Candace began her legal career as a clerk on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. Her skills as an appellate attorney flourished at the National Labor Relations Board, where she passionately advocated for workers’ rights. When her husband was offered an opportunity to join a firm here in San Diego in 1983, Candace supported the move despite having to leave her home and career behind. She joined the Sullivan Hill firm and became its lead appellate lawyer, a position she held until her passing. Her brilliance earned her recognition from legal organizations including the San Diego County Bar Association, California Women Lawyers, Lawyers Club of San Diego, and Duke Law School.
In addition to serving as president of the San Diego County Bar Association in 1998 and as president of California Women Lawyers in 2003 and 2004, Candace served on the local and national boards of the American Civil Liberties Union. She also served on the boards of the
San Diego Convention Center and the San Diego Volunteer Lawyers Program.
When the San Diego Opera faced extinction in 2014, Candace became deeply involved in saving the organization. According to Carol Lazier, who led the rescue effort: “We had a lot of legal questions, and she offered good guidance to our little board. With Candace, there was not a bit of pretense. She was very knowledgeable, a great leader. She asked the hard questions. She was so honest, so straightforward.” Candace joined the Opera’s board in 2014 and served in a leadership role until her passing.
More than just serving on boards, she directly helped individuals in need through hands-on volunteer work. Candace was also highly involved in politics, raising funds for candidates and causes close to her heart. Starting in 2009, she served seven years as chairwoman of Sen. Barbara Boxer’s San Diego-area advisory committee for selection of federal judge and U.S. attorney nominations. Her efforts to advocate for women’s rights spanned decades, from joining the National Organization for Women in her 20s to fighting for equal treatment for women and the LGBTQ+ community throughout her life.
Candace balanced her professional accomplishments and community service with her deep commitment to family. She worked hard to navigate her career ambitions while raising her five sons, to whom she was devoted. Her love for her family and her endless care for the San Diego community remained central to who she was. In the words of Judge Barry Moskowitz, she was a “giant in our legal community” and a true “pioneer for women lawyers in San Diego.”
With brilliance, passion, and care, Candace Carroll made a difference. She was a lawyer, leader, tireless volunteer, political advocate, loving mother, and wife. Though she is deeply missed, her legacy will continue inspiring generations in the community she loved. San Diego is better for the dedication and spirit that Candace brought to everything she did.
James P. Hill, is a director at Fennemore, a full-service business law firm.
pril 2024 marks the 125th anniversary of the
and this book will cover this trend and more. The book will also share the history of the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Division and its previous iterations. It will be fascinating to learn what prior iterations were named and how each new “version” came into being. Importantly, the book will also focus on the history of the SDCBA’s professional staff, giving the SDCBA a wonderful way to permanently record and shout from its book its deep appreciation for the staff who have played invaluable roles in the SDCBA’s existence. Other topics include the history of the SDCBA’s different bar center locations, collaborations with affinity bars and other legal-related organizations, membership statistics, operating during the COVID-19 pandemic, and LRIS.
This milestone year gives the SDCBA a chance to invite its members to reflect and look back on all that has been accomplished since 1999 and all that SDCBA would like to achieve going forward.
of the SDCBA’s core values. This milestone year gives the SDCBA a chance to invite its members to reflect and look back on all that has been accomplished since 1999 and all that the SDCBA would like to achieve going
Signature Resolution’s panel of San Diego Neutrals are available to resolve your disputes.
In August of 2021, United States news reports were filled with images of Afghan refugees clinging to the undercarriage of U.S. military aircraft departing from Kabul’s international airport. The images showed the profound desperation of people who feared for their lives as Kabul fell to the Taliban. The dire situation stood in sharp contrast to the preceding years.
Afghanistan had made strides over the two decades that the U.S. military spent in the country. With the Taliban in retreat from 2001 to 2021, young Afghans like Hamid Qazi aspired to contribute to their country’s progress through education and hard work.
Qazi started by working for the U.S. embassy in Kabul. He worked for the embassy’s Rule of Law Section, which promoted principles of justice and the rule of law to benefit Afghan society. It also offered training programs for lawyers and judges and collaborated with the Ministry of the Interior to educate incarcerated individuals to improve prison system outcomes.
Qazi worked for the Rule of Law Section for nearly three years, translating documents from Afghan legal institutions, including the Ministry of Justice, the Supreme
Court, appellate courts, trial courts, and the Attorney General’s office. His translations provided essential information to U.S. embassy workers and advisors who valued Qazi’s thoughts and opinions about the legal training programs.
While he worked at the embassy, Qazi attended Kabul University at night, studying law and political science. There, he met and fell in love with Masooda, the top student in his law school class.
Upon graduation, Qazi began prosecuting counternarcotics cases at the Afghan Attorney General’s office. Qazi’s first four years were spent as an investigative prosecutor. Because police officers in Afghanistan were limited to conducting 72-hour preliminary investigations, prosecutors like Qazi conducted deeper investigations, flushing out the details of each case.
He later transitioned to serving as an appellate prosecutor, assigned to review case files and defend or appeal trial court decisions. In Afghanistan, both the prosecution and defense can file criminal appeals, resulting in a high volume of appeals reaching the country’s Supreme Court.
Unlike the U.S., the Afghan Supreme Court and appellate
courts review each case de novo. Believing that de novo review at all court levels engenders confidence in decisions, Qazi says, “More people are looking at the facts and making sure the decision is right.”
With a solid footing in the legal profession, Qazi thought his life was going well. He married Masooda, and she got a job at the U.S. embassy. They started a family and had two sons. They had the support of their families and enjoyed a great social life.
government, Qazi and his family tried to enter the airport at midnight, 1 a.m., and 2 am., finally succeeding the fourth time. Inside, more crowds were waiting for flights.
Qazi and his family boarded a Dutch military plane bound for Islamabad. From there, they took another chartered flight to Amsterdam. In Amsterdam, Dutch and U.S. officials estimated it would take a couple of days to get their Special Immigrant visas to the U.S., but it took far longer.
Resettling in San Diego presented a new set of challenges. Undaunted, Qazi embarked on a mission to take care of his family and rebuild his life from scratch.
Qazi, Masooda, and his two boys spent almost 11 months interned in a former Dutch military prison. The prison had been converted into an immigration camp, where immigration officials maintained complete control. Dutch immigration officials provided Qazi and his family with used clothing and monthly hygiene supplies. They also provided boiled food without oil or spices, and the children were not allowed to attend school. Qazi’s children had trouble stomaching the bland food, and the months without school were hard for them.
Dutch immigration officials refused to provide medical care other than basic painkillers, unless it was an emergency. When Qazi’s toothache could no longer be treated with painkillers, they had the tooth pulled, resulting in a monthlong recovery and an inability to eat. They also refused Masooda prenatal care after she became pregnant.
Then the trouble started. As the U.S. military planned its 2021 departure from Afghanistan, the Taliban resurged. Qazi explains, “When [the] Taliban took over, they released more than 10,000 people from the counternarcotics prison and detention center.” He worried that the criminals he prosecuted would come looking for him and his family. He also knew that the Taliban would punish him and his wife for working with the U.S. embassy. Qazi had no choice. He and his family had to escape.
Qazi and Masooda packed one bag for the entire family and filled it with crucial necessities — food and medicine. There was no room for anything else. Masooda taped their degree certificates and other educational documents to her body, thinking that was the only safe place to keep them. They locked their doors and left.
Outside the airport, Qazi and his family faced the crush and chaos of people trying to enter. They heard gunshots and flash grenades all around as the U.S. army tried to control the crowd. Armed with “gate passes” from the U.S.
U.S. officials were aware of the situation. They didn’t want Masooda to deliver the baby in the Netherlands, so they issued U.S. visas to Qazi’s family quicker than they had for others. With visas in hand, Qazi and his family boarded an American Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Texas. They flew to San Diego from Texas to join Masooda’s three sisters.
On arrival in San Diego, Qazi and his family were assigned an International Rescue Committee caseworker. The caseworker introduced them to a social services volunteer who bought them clothes and supplies for the baby.
Resettling in San Diego presented a new set of challenges. Undaunted, Qazi embarked on a mission to take care of his family and rebuild his life from scratch. He secured a job with Amazon as a delivery driver before transitioning to an office job.
When the social services volunteer learned that Qazi and his wife were legal professionals in Afghanistan,
she introduced them to Mytili Bala. At the time, Bala was president of the South Asian Bar Association of San Diego (SABA-SD) and the founder of the organization’s Afghan Outreach Project (Afghan Project). Bala established the Afghan Project to help Afghan refugee lawyers and judges find viable paths to return to the legal profession.
Qazi knew that finding a job as a legal professional would be difficult in the U.S. English was his second language, and the Afghan legal system was based solely on a written code of laws. Case law did not have a role in Afghan law.
Recognizing the obstacles, Bala had a plan. A supportive network of Afghan Project volunteers, including Pooja Dadhania, Vivek Narayanadas, and Judges Marsha Amin and Selena Epley, worked with Qazi and his wife to improve their resumes, write cover letters, prepare for job interviews, and connect with potential employers. Bala had confidence in Qazi, “Although U.S. law is new to him, lawyering is not, and I knew that any American firm that took a chance on him would soon reap the rewards.”
Partners Khodadad Sharif and Matthew Faust of Sharif Faust Lawyers, Ltd. (Sharif Faust) recognized Qazi’s potential. They hired him as a law clerk. At the firm, Qazi conducts legal research and provides trial support, bringing a unique perspective informed by his experience as an Afghan investigative prosecutor. Sharif and Faust point to Qazi’s ability to pour through depositions and documents to find keen and incisive connections. Faust describes Qazi as a “super law clerk” who “brings insight to cases you would expect of a lawyer.” Sharif adds
that Qazi contributes to “our legal system, our country, and our clients. He makes their cases better.” Sharif emphasizes that while other firms look at cases with a linear mindset, Qazi’s novel ways of thinking combined with the rest of the team produce “a mosaic effect,” giving their firm a creative edge.
Qazi considered leaving his job at Sharif Faust to care for his baby girl when his wife received a job offer from the public defender’s office. Qazi didn’t want his wife to lose the opportunity to use her talents as the top-ranked student in their law school class. Sharif Faust, however, accommodated his needs by offering a night shift, allowing him to continue his employment while fulfilling his family obligations.
Qazi worked the night shift for about a year. Today, Qazi and his wife work during the day as legal professionals while their daughter goes to daycare.
Looking ahead, Qazi and Masooda aspire to become licensed attorneys in the U.S., continuing their journey to reclaim the profession they love and leverage their skills and experience to benefit their new country. SABASD’s Afghan Project, currently led by Arwa Kakavand, will continue to provide support by adding bar exam preparation classes to the project’s offerings.
Vaani Chawla (vchawla@chawlalaw.com) practices immigration law and serves as Of Counsel at Berner Chawla, PLLC.
L-R: Ko Sharif, Hamid Qazi, Matthew Faust
There are a variety of organizations dedicated to assisting refugees and aiding in the immigration process. These organizations’ valuable work cannot be overstated. If you are looking to volunteer for a refugee-focused organization, here are some of the many options to choose from.
1. The American Bar Association’s Commission on Immigration — The ABA’s Commission on Immigration is dedicated to fighting for the rights of asylum-seekers, immigrants, and refugees. The Commission on Immigration offers news updates, internships, and Pro Bono opportunities. For more information, you can visit their website at americanbar.org
2. American Immigration Lawyers Association — AILA is a volunteer bar dedicated to not only providing resources to attorneys practicing immigration law, but also to advocating for fair immigration law and policy. AILA offers pro bono opportunities along with committees to join and writing opportunities for those looking to volunteer. For more information, visit aila.org.
1. Afghan Outreach Project — The South Asian Bar Association of San Diego founded the Afghan Outreach Project to support the thousands of Afghan refugees being resettled in the United States. The project specifically focuses on helping refugeelawyers secure entry-level legal sector positions. For more information, visit sabasandiego.org/afghanoutreach-project/.
2. Casa Cornelia — Founded by Cornelia Connelly, Casa Cornelia is a public-interest law firm dedicated to educating others about immigration law and policy. Its primary commitment is to indigent persons within the immigrant community in Southern California. Any attorneys who wish to volunteer with Casa Cornelia must undergo a two-hour training about substantive and procedural law. For more information, visit casa cornelia.org.
3. Catholic Charities Diocese of San Diego — CCDSD offers legal representation and refugee settlement case management for immigrants and refugees. For more information, visit ccdsd.org/volunteer.
4. Center for Gender and Refugee Studies — The CGRS, founded by Karen Musalo, focuses on defending human rights of refugees seeking asylum in the United States. CGRS accepts volunteers of various capacities, ranging from undergraduate students to attorneys. Volunteers will help the organization research human rights conditions, conduct legal research, identify expert witnesses, and more. For more information, visit cgrs.uclawsf.edu.
5. Legal Aid Society of San Diego — LASSD assists low-income and vulnerable individuals and families in San Diego with a wide range of legal services, including immigration. The organization provides legal services to educate the public on immigration law and assist low-income immigrants to obtain lawful status, apply for citizenship, and defend against deportation. LASSD also offers an immigration court representation clinic to educate people about their options in Immigration Court. For more information, visit https:// www.lassd.org/immigration.
s I approach my 70th year on this earth and my 40th year as an attorney, I can reflect on my career with nostalgia and pride. If you were to ask me what I value in the practice, I would tell you it's the things that make attorneys soar head and shoulders above the day-to-day drudgery and mediocrity that we all face in life. I refer to them as the Eight Habits of a successful attorney.
1. Protect your reputation. You have heard this before, but it bears repeating. It takes years to gain a reputation that fellow attorneys and judges will respect, but one sharp move or a cheap shot can destroy that forever and a day.
2. Be prepared. When I started out, I thought I could wing it. Life taught me that winging it means going down in flames. I now strive to be the most knowledgeable person in the courtroom about the case at hand. It’s gotten to the point where I am actually making my opponent’s arguments and then telling the judge why they should be discarded!
3. Be yourself. In one of my first jury trials, I thought I needed to “act as a lawyer.” I put on this phony persona and started quoting Ayn Rand. The jury found against my client even though the evidence was highly in her favor. Looking back on that embarrassing experience, I realized, “I gotta be me.” Anything else will not end well.
4. Stay sober. About 10 years into my practice, I threw my back out and started taking Vicodin for pain. I eventually got addicted to the pain pills and started drinking to help with the withdrawals. I was actually asking clients and other attorneys for pain pills! It goes without saying when we are drunk or on drugs, we do not make smart decisions. I’ve been sober and clean for over 25 years now and have never felt better.
5. Stay professional. While humor is important and necessary, when it comes to dealing with our clients, we must place boundaries that are never crossed.
We cannot get emotionally involved in a case and make good, objective decisions. Clients come to us for counseling. We need to tell them straight up what they can expect from their case. Anything else will lead to expectations that can never be met.
6. Keep your balance. My wife left me eight years into our marriage, which caused a great deal of harm to my son as well as myself. If you want to avoid a divorce, you will need to reach an understanding with your spouse as to how much time will be devoted to your family and how much time to the profession. You can’t have your cake and eat it, so maybe settle for a smaller dessert.
7. Stay physically active. I hike every weekend in the winter and swim in the ocean during the summer. I hit the gym and play pickleball as well. This career will take a lot out of you, so you better eat right and stay active if you want to keep your health.
8. Finally, see the higher calling. At the end of the day, my boss is Lady Justice. I am a servant of Truth. While I grew up Catholic, I now follow the Tao — the middle path. You will usually find Truth somewhere in the middle. Pushing for the extremes is not the way to go.
I love my job and my career. We can all strive to be heroes, and not just for one day. We can walk with our heads up. We can bring justice to the world one client at a time. We are lawyers — that’s what we do.
John A. Don, Esq. is a sole practitioner in Mission Valley. Attorney Don is a certified specialist in workers' compensation, the Chair of the San Diego County Workers' Compensation section, and a Board member with the California Applicants Attorney Association. Mr. Don has lectured at many CAAA conventions, the District Attorney Association of California, Work Comp. Central. and other educational programs around the State. Attorney Don has been a member of the San Diego County Bar Asc. for over 36 years.
Podcasts have been around for a little over 20 years, a collaboration between a Dutch MTV video jockey and a software developer. Podcasting is a way to subscribe to audio content, hence its original name “audioblogging.”
In 2004, a writer for The Guardian coined the term “podcasting” to describe this new form of radio broadcasting (combining iPod and broadcast), where anyone could be a broadcaster. Apple fostered the development and listenership exploded with “Serial,” the first podcast to reach 5 million downloads. Today, podcasts are everywhere on many platforms, covering a huge and diverse array of topics. By the end of 2019, there were more than 700,000 podcasts and 29 million episodes, according to Edison Research.
So, let’s narrow this down and talk about three of them, and specifically relating to the San Diego legal community.
Crosby launched his podcast in March 2023, and has posted two episodes a month since then. He said he started this podcast “with a simple concept — if I asked a bunch of different trial attorneys on both sides of the aisle practicing in various areas of law the same questions about trials and trial practice, how would they respond? What could we learn from one another, and what insights would they share about their personal
and professional experiences as a trial lawyer?” In each episode, he asks his guest the same 10 questions.
In his selection of guests, Crosby tries to showcase a variety of perspectives from a diverse group of both veteran and newer attorneys. “Initially, I selected a few lawyers who I knew I would learn something from and who would provide great advice for newer attorneys,” he says. More recently, Trial Call 10 guests have been referred to him by listeners and previous guests. Crosby also noted that his podcast has evolved into one that “not only explores the nuts and bolts of trial practice, but also explores the character, personalities, and professional lives of some truly great and very interesting lawyers.”
The podcasts are recorded on Zoom, rather than in a studio. “This way, it’s a 60-to-90-minute slot per recording, that’s it. We can do it over lunch. We also tell guests there is no need to prepare; in fact, we prefer they don’t, so their answers to the TC 10 are more spontaneous and conversational.” The finished podcasts
vary in length, from 30 to 60 minutes. Crosby, who works with Karen Korr on the production of the podcast, said they post them as recorded, without editing. “It makes it more real and not rehearsed and slick.
More like getting to eavesdrop on two trial lawyers just chatting about trial work,” he adds. Korr says they do not currently have a sponsor but may consider it in the future.
Crosby, a trial lawyer for 40 years, says he is still learning and perfecting his craft. “I have gained some insight into my own psyche, character, and traits as a trial lawyer from these extended discussions with other trial lawyers. Good stuff!” This year, he is launching a new podcast entitled “Trial Call 10: First Trials,” which will feature new attorneys talking about their first trial experiences, using the same 10-question format.
(Crosby has a business litigation and trial practice in downtown San Diego.)
This podcast began in May 2023. McIntyre interviews “outstanding plaintiff and defendant civil trial lawyers, who are American Board of Trial Advocates (ABOTA) members, about what works and what doesn’t work in trial.”
“I’d been thinking about doing this for a few years, and that it would be a valuable thing to interview ABOTA trial lawyers and have a frank discussion about civil jury trials,” says McIntyre, adding that his podcast “has gotten a good response, and allows younger lawyers to learn from trial masters.” He noted that although the podcast started in May 2023, he now has close to
1,000 listens. One listener, in practice for 15 years, told McIntyre that he was preparing for trial and the tips gleaned from the podcast were very helpful.
So far, McIntyre has kept his guest list limited to one plaintiff or defense attorney per episode. He plans on expanding to include ABOTA judiciary members soon. He prefers to stay within the confines of the trial group’s membership because all members have been vetted for trial skills and civility before being welcomed into the local chapter.
McIntyre interviews guests by Zoom. He keeps the content of the conversations as is, intact, and unrehearsed. So far, “no one has ever asked for content to be edited out.” The trial tips and other trial strategies vary greatly but are not generally controversial. A recent episode focused on the impact of COVID on jurors, suggesting verdicts were larger for plaintiffs because everyone now has a shared experience of suffering and loss, and hence were more empathetic.
McIntyre starts and ends each episode with guitar music that he wrote, along with a brief introduction (“intro”) and concluding remarks (“outro”). He doesn’t have too many set questions for his guests, but he always asks a few, including “What is the most important part of trial?” and “What advice would you give to a younger lawyer who wants to be a trial lawyer?” The discussion then takes off from there, with the focus varying from jury selection, themes, openings, cross-examinations, closings, and other trial tips and techniques. “One of the important lessons listeners will learn is that there is no one way to do things, and you have to figure out what works for you.” Although, in the end, it is always about telling a story.
McIntyre’s goal is to release one podcast a month, about an hour in length. And with a number “in the can,” he is well prepared for 2024. He is his own sponsor and enjoys the experience. “It is great to talk to these experienced trial lawyers.” His podcast is available on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube (which includes the video from Zoom).
(McIntyre, civil trial lawyer since 1980 representing both plaintiffs and defendants, was SDCBA President in 2002 and ABOTA President in 2014. He is now a mediator, arbitrator, and referee at ADR Services, Inc.)
Starting in late December 2023, this podcast promotes itself as dedicated to “engaging conversations with, and behind the scenes insights about, San Diego’s state and federal court judges.”
The podcasts are 40 to 45 minutes long, and the first episode features Superior Court Judge Robert Amador. The format is a group discussion, with Pokorny and Rezzo bouncing thoughts and questions to each other and the interviewee.
Pokorny says the inspiration was from the “Smartless” podcast, where one of the three hosts (Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Will Arnett) introduces a surprise guest each week. Pokorny’s favorite episode is the one with sportscasting legend Al Michaels. Pokorny and Rezzo, both working as mediators, got to talking about creating something as engaging as the “Smartless” podcast, and came up with a format that allowed “for the listeners to get to know a judge,” says Rezzo, adding that they frequently end their podcast with lots still to be explored with their judicial guest.
Rezzo says they are getting into a groove as they have developed a conversational style podcast, where it sounds like they are “just shooting the breeze.” Pokorny says they have some pat questions, but after those discussion points are done, the episode becomes spontaneous, unscripted, “and sometimes freewheeling.” He says the demographic will most likely be younger lawyers.
Pokorny developed the initial list of local judges for interviewing based on who he knew and he hopes the podcast catches on. Rezzo says that because most of their guests will be active members of the bench, there are a few topics off the table (politics, current cases). Generally, they will stay with lighter topics, with the goal of getting
to know the person behind the robe. Pokorny also pitches it as an educational experience, as the judges will often provide courtroom tips for lawyers practicing in their court. Rezzo and Pokorny are finding that quiet and reserved judges frequently open up once you get them going in conversation, which makes the podcast engaging to the listeners.
All of the podcasts done so far have been in person, either in the judge’s chambers or at their home. Pokorny says it is an easy setup with three microphones, and the hosts prefer something face-to-face so they can read the judge’s nonverbal cues. “It really is fun,” Pokorny says.
(Rezzo has been in civil litigation/employment practice since 1996, including time at Gray Cary and 19 years with Edelson & Rezzo; she is now a full-time mediator with West Coast Resolution. Pokorny practiced criminal and civil litigation with emphasis in aviation law 1977–2017, then went into a full-time mediation practice and is now with West Coast Resolution.)
(Author’s Note: The SDCBA will launch its own podcast called Legends of the Bar starting this year. The podcast uses the audio portions of the recordings of lawyers and judges captured in the Bar’s Legal Legends program that started in 2006. Each podcast guest is briefly introduced by me and concludes with additional information/biography occurring since the original Legal Legends recording.)
George W. Brewster Jr. (sandbrews@aol.com) is a retired attorney after 35 years of practice, including JAG, private practice, and the last 30 with the County of San Diego, Office of County Counsel.
The Court has fixed the date of Monday, April 15, 2024 at 9:00 a.m. in Courtroom No. 6, Cumberland County Courthouse, as the time and place for the hearing on said Petition, when and where all interested parties may appear and show cause, if any, why the request of the Petitioner should not be granted.
THE HONORABLE MICHELLE H. SIBERT, Judge
MICHAEL A. SCHERER, Esquire
Dating apps can be exciting yet frustrating: You have one opportunity to prove your merits to a judging audience, and then a single motion in one direction can make or break your chances of the desired outcome. When you think about it, that’s not too different from a legal complaint. In both instances, the goal is to plainly demonstrate that the matter is worthy of further consideration, to avoid a motion to dismiss the initial “pleading.” Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(b).
Fortunately, if you know how to write a successful complaint, you can also draft a compelling dating profile that will capture the attention of the candidates you want to attract. Apply these three tips to reduce swipe-left motions and increase your chances of successful romantic connections.
Visual exhibits in a complaint can be impactful in illustrating the crux of the allegations and strengthening your client’s credibility, so that the complaint is less vulnerable to dismissal. The same goes for your online dating profile.
Your potential matches want to know what you look like, not just to assess physical attraction, but also to create a sense of familiarity and trust when it comes to meeting a brand-new person. That said, make sure you put thought and effort into the photos you include on your profile. Include photos that show your face clearly and in which you look happy. Make sure the photos as a whole show a consistency in your appearance so that your potential matches can understand what you actually look like: this means avoiding too many group photos, photos with sunglasses and headgear, and photos from 10 years ago where you look much different than you look today. Even photos that are actually genuine can deter potential matches if the overall impression is not self-authenticating. Eliminate genuine issues of material fact as to your physical appearance in order to bolster your credibility and maximize your dating success.
Like in law, the truth matters when it comes to dating, online and otherwise. A common pitfall is exaggerating particular features or facts in hopes of impressing potential matches. Doing this will not necessarily lead to more matches and, even if it does, the misrepresentations will almost certainly backfire if and when they are discovered by the people you are trying to date.
No different from legal pleadings, you should avoid making any claims about your age, height, occupation, or any other fact on your dating profile that you can’t ultimately substantiate. Recently, I saw a profile for a 41-year-old on a dating app. The profile looked decent … except I had seen the same user on a different app a few months earlier, and that time the user was listed as 39 years old. Prior inconsistent statements and other indicators of dishonesty, no matter how slight, will impeach your credibility, so avoid these.
That said, you don’t have to overshare on your profile or reveal your deepest insecurities upfront: too much information at this stage could be more prejudicial than probative. Fed. R. Evid. 403. Just avoid objective misstatements, however slight, and instead highlight your best traits in order to position yourself to meet someone who likes and accepts you as you are.
Key to both a complaint and a dating profile is to be clear about what is being claimed and what relief you are seeking.
In terms of setting forth the “claims,” a compelling profile will convey your hobbies, interests, and personality traits so that a potential match is intrigued to learn more. Like with a legal complaint, you want to keep your
audience in mind when you draft your profile. Being specific about your likes, interests, and desires may help you attract more potentially compatible candidates. Photos showing the “elements” of your claims — travel photos, family photos, photos of you engaging in your hobbies, etc. — can certainly be persuasive (subject to the above two tips).
Though a formal “prayer for relief” is unnecessary, your profile should at least indicate the type of relationship you want, whether that’s short-term or long-term, and the essential qualities you are looking for in a partner. Your profile should ultimately provide a window into who you are, so the right candidates can envision sharing experiences with you and are drawn to explore a connection.
*Please note this constitutes general information rather than legal advice. Implementation of this advice may also be subject to the terms and conditions of the relevant dating app or service. Nothing in this article should be construed to guarantee the outcome of any matter. Consult a qualified dating coach, tarot card reader, or ChatGPT regarding your individual situation.
Do you have dating-related questions or stories/advice for lawyers? Send your questions, stories, and advice to The Bachlawrette at bar@sdcba org for possible inclusion in a future column (anonymously, unless otherwise requested).
Local Solutions. Global Reach.
or decades, professional athletes have been compensated for use of their name, image, and likeness, also referred to as NIL. Until recently, college athletes were prohibited from receiving such compensation, without the risk of losing their amateur status or college scholarships. The inability of student athletes to benefit from their NIL when the sports they excelled at generated billions in revenue created an untenable tension in collegiate sports. In 2019, California introduced the Fair Pay to Play Act, which allowed collegiate athletes to acquire endorsements and sponsorships while still maintaining eligibility. In 2021, the Supreme Court ruled in NCAA v Alston that the NCAA could not limit education-related compensation or benefits to students.
Shortly after the Alston ruling, the NCAA published interim rules allowing student athletes to engage in NIL activities. Almost three years later, everyone, including studentathletes, school administrators, and outside organizations, are trying to figure out the boundaries of the new rules and the impact on the competitiveness of the sports we know and love. One local organization has found a way to use the recent changes in the law to benefit the student-athletes and bring awareness to important causes and charities here in San Diego.
The MESA Foundation, which stands for Mentoring and Empowering Student Athletes, works to raise awareness for charitable causes in San Diego by partnering local charities with San Diego State University student-athletes who choose to use their social media platforms and influence to bring awareness to these organizations. The charities benefit from increased awareness and exposure to the cultivated social networks of the student-athletes, while the students get to make use of the new law changes while doing some good in their community.
According to founder Jeff Smith, MESA currently works with 32 student-athletes, which includes the entire SDSU men’s basketball team and the scholarship women’s basketball team members. MESA began when NIL law changes were less than a year old, and it has been at the forefront of how to use the changes to benefit the players and do some good
in the community. MESA is structured as an independent collective that generates and pools revenue raised through contributions. The foundation is funded through membership dues and donations. MESA uses the raised funds to support the student-athletes and the athletes participate in advertisements and campaigns, or via social media, to raise awareness for local San Diego charities. USMC Camp Pendleton, Inter Tribal Sports, San Diego Blood Bank, San Diego Food Bank, and the Boys and Girls Club are just some of the numerous organizations MESA has already partnered with.
Compensating student-athletes for use of their name, image, and likeness is certainly still in its infancy, and Smith notes that not all sports fans are in favor of the new changes. Players being able to financially benefit from their status as popular college athletes is in many ways contradictory to the way college sports have always been viewed, but Smith emphasizes how important these changes are. Studentathletes have always received scholarships to attend these schools and pay for basic needs, but those scholarships are often insufficient to truly support the player. Smith describes how with MESA’s financial support, some students have been able to pay for their families to travel to San Diego watch them play for the first time. MESA support also helps these student-athletes in times when they may not be getting scholarship funds during the offseason or in the summer. Students can now stay in San Diego to practice and use the school’s facilities rather than having to travel back home during the summer. Ultimately, student-athlete compensation is here to stay, and Smith is hopeful the fans will come to understand how best to use NIL law changes to benefit the students, the sports, and the community at large.
The laws regarding how student-athletes can be compensated are ever-changing. Even now, the NCAA president has proposals to greatly expand how much players can be paid and by whom. For now, San Diego is fortunate to have an organization like MESA, doing its part to use these law changes to benefit the students and a few worthy causes at the same time.
Isaac Jackson (isaac.jackson@sdcda.org) is Deputy District Attorney with the San Diego County District Attorney’s Office.
Join us in paying tribute to the deceased lawyers and judges of the San Diego County Bar who have demonstrated exceptional legal skills and commitment to the community throughout their careers. Honor their legacy at the 2024 Distinguished Lawyer Memorial Reception on May 22, 2024, held at the University Club Atop Symphony Towers. The reception is open to the public.
The honorees will forever be remembered with a permanent plaque in the Hall of Justice Courthouse.
The San Diego County Bar Foundation is dedicated to providing access to justice through legal services and increasing public understanding of the law in underserved communities. We encourage those who have been positively impacted by a past or present inductee to make a donation to the Foundation in their honor.
Please visit sdcbf.org/donatedlm to show your support.
May 22, 2024 | 5:30 - 7:30 P.M.
University Club Atop Symphony Towers
750 B Street, 34th Floor | San Diego, CA 92101
The SDCBF announces its latest strategic investment of $390,000 in grants to vital nonprofit organizations offering legal services in San Diego County.
“The San Diego County Bar Foundation stands at the forefront of driving equitable justice in our community. When you choose to support the Foundation, you’re not just donating; you’re investing in a fairer future for San Diego. Our strategic grantmaking ensures that your generosity reaches those who need it most, amplifying the impact of every dollar in the fight for justice and equity. Together, we are building a stronger, more just society,” remarks Shannon Stein, President of the SDCBF.
BACKGROUND:
For over four decades, the SDCBF has been a pivotal force in directing over $5 million to more than 50 legal aid and public interest organizations. Our unique approach involves a rigorous grant process, ensuring that every dollar donated is effectively channeled to address critical needs in our community. This year’s grants, funded by the unwavering support of San Diego’s legal and business communities, particularly highlight our focus on aiding immigrants, domestic violence survivors, the homeless, and other marginalized groups.
THE GRANT PROCESS - A MODEL OF TRANSPARENCY AND IMPACT:
The grant process at the San Diego County Bar Foundation is a thorough and transparent journey, beginning with a careful assessment of each applicant’s eligibility and culminating in a collaborative decisionmaking process. This meticulous approach ensures that each grant awarded is a strategic investment towards promoting justice and equity in our San Diego community.
The efforts of the San Diego County Bar Foundation are empowered by the support of its sponsors. The commitment in 2023 by Cohelan Khoury & Singer, Thorson Law Group, Morrison & Foerster, The Dixon Firm, CaseyGerry, Foley & Lardner LLP, and Perkins Coie LLP, who contributed at least $7,500, along with numerous other contributors transcends simple financial assistance. Their support is the very fuel that drives the Foundation’s mission. Each sponsor’s involvement is crucial, making it possible to effect tangible change in the quest for justice and equity in the San Diego community.
CALL TO ACTION:
Join us in making a lasting difference. Learn more about our work and how you can contribute at San Diego County Bar Foundation (sdcbf.org).
The San Diego County Bar Foundation in partnership with the San Diego County Bar Association, has been a beacon of hope and justice since 1979. Our commitment to legal advocacy and support for those facing poverty, abuse, and discrimination sets us apart as a leader in community service and a model for other bar foundations.
What are your main responsibilities at the Bar?
Some of my main responsibilities at the Bar are working closely with both the Executive Director and the Board of Directors as a Governance Coordinator. One of my main roles is overseeing the election processes that occur every year at the Bar as well as attending Board events.
How long have you been working at the Bar? I have been working at the Bar since June 2023.
What is your favorite part of your job?
My favorite part of the job is honestly the challenge. I also like that there is always something new to learn here.
Ashley Turner Governance CoordinatorWhat is your favorite movie or TV show and why?
Two of my favorite movies are “Freaky Friday” and “You Again” because they both remind me of good childhood memories.
What’s your favorite quote?
My favorite quote is: “I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone’s shadows. If I fail, if I succeed, at least I’ll live as I believe. No matter what they take from me, they can’t take away my dignity.” — Whitney Houston
What do you love about San Diego?
What I love most about San Diego are the beaches and the taco shops.
he word agreement brings to mind legal terms of art: contracts, joint powers authority, offer-acceptanceconsideration. As attorneys, we know that these kinds of agreements are powerful: they identify responsibilities and clarify obligations. If a party breaches an agreement, there are consequences. In addition, when an agreement isn’t working as the parties intended or perhaps there has been a change of circumstances, parties will renegotiate.
However, we don’t always see the power of creating agreements with others in the workplace. Agreements in the workplace aren’t pages long with waivers. They are generally simple and direct, and when done correctly, include clear terms for each person involved. Clear agreements support productivity and understanding, while also decreasing stress, which contributes to overall well-being.
As Brené Brown writes in “Dare to Lead,” clear is kind. Although she uses the phrase in relation to having difficult conversations, “clear is kind” also rings true when you’re trying to accomplish something with a team at work. When we understand what we need and/or what is expected, we can work toward that outcome and communicate our needs and results as we move forward.
One problem you may encounter at work: the agreement isn’t always clear. In fact, sometimes it’s not even clear whether there is an agreement. Below is a step-by-step process to create and, to use the legal term of art, enforce agreements at work.
Step 1: A clear request with a specific deliverable (what and by when): “Will you do[action/deliverable] by [date and time]?”
Step 2: A response to the request.
Acceptable and clear responses include:
• Yes – when you get a yes, the agreement is complete.
• No – when you get a no, the conversation may be complete, or you can propose something new and/or find another person to assist.
• Renegotiation – a response that proposes new terms. For example: “I can do [action/deliverable] but not by [date and time]. Could I get it to you by [date/time] instead?
• If there is a renegotiation, ensure you get a final yes or no.
Examples of unclear responses that are common in the workplace:
• Sounds good.
• Probably.
• If you can’t find someone else, I could do it.
• Silence.
Step 3: The agreement is complete or not at the “by when” date.
Step 4: Accountability with the parties involved. This means either:
Acknowledging when the agreement is complete: “Thank you for getting that to me when you said you would.” Or “I’ve attached the work product you requested. What’s the next step?”
• Having a conversation when the agreement is not kept.
• Giving feedback about the work received.
A note about Step 3: These conversations are not about blame and finger pointing. Instead, the conversations can be used to learn and then avoid the same outcome the next time. Here are some suggested questions to ask when agreements aren’t kept:
• What got in the way of completing the assignment?
• What could we do differently next time to meet the deadline?
• Having read the notes on the project, what changes could you make for the next assignment?
I have experienced the power of agreements and accountability in my work. Having the agreement in place has allowed me to monitor my progress, meet deadlines, or ask for a new deadline if I am struggling. I have also relied on this kind of agreement to support employee growth and create accountability on a team. While it can be challenging at first, working through the agreement process can provide you and your team with more peace of mind, which is so needed given our busy schedules, demanding deadlines, and desire to work collaboratively with others. Use the stepby-step process above for your next work assignment!
Megan Moore is the Chair of the SDCBA Leadership Academy Subcommittee, Member at Large of the SDCBA DEI Division, and member of the SDCBA Wellness Subcommittee. She works with attorneys and legal organizations to improve communication, develop leadership, create fulfilling careers, and build thriving practices. Visit https://meganmooreinc. com/about/to learn more about her coaching and consulting work.
We joined LRIS because we were looking to broaden our client base and expand our services county-wide.
Pinney Cullins, LLP has assisted LRIS clients from all walks of life. Oftentimes, the prospective clients are not familiar with how to engage with law firms. The SDCBA is a trusted resource for San Diego residents. When a prospective client contacts the Lawyer Referral and Information Service, they are screened and matched with vetted and qualified attorneys. The process is efficient and mutually beneficial. As an additional bonus, any referral fees paid are used to further the program and help those in need!
Pinney Cullins, LLPOftentimes, clients find themselves in despair during a personal health or family emergency. We have been able to provide timely counsel and develop estate plans that give our clients peace of mind and ensure their loved ones are provided for. Oftentimes, during the representation period, we uncover other legal issues or ways in which we can assist the client, whether it be the drafting of a Special Needs Trust or Trust Administration, or assisting in the development of a business entity.
You will likely receive more referrals from LRIS than you expect. Although you may not be able to accept the matter, the free consult you provide is invaluable to the client. Oftentimes, our LRIS clients refer their friends and neighbors!
L
I joined LRIS to better serve the community.
In my opinion, the biggest benefit of LRIS is helping individuals with legal matters. Even if we cannot assist them, it is very rewarding.
I would like to share a referral that turned out to be a great success story.
Recently, a gentleman had to stop working due to multiple long-term progressive health problems, and he didn't know he could file for social security disability benefits while collecting state disability.
So, I encouraged him to consider starting an application. I also educated him on the general process, what to expect, and the time frame for most claims to resolve. Further, he was in a financially dire-need situation and was about to be homeless. So, I educated him on how he can request Social Security to expedite the processing of his claim. I also offered him other resources such as 2-1-1 and the phone number to Medi-cal.
I encourage other attorneys to join LRIS because it's a great idea to get involved and better help the community!
The following individuals in our community were recently honored for their achievements. If you achieve a professional success, feel welcome to submit it to bar@sdcba.org for inclusion in an upcoming issue of San Diego Lawyer.
Gov. Gavin Newsom has appointed former prosecutor and Chief Deputy City Attorney, Rebecca Zipp as a new judge on the San Diego Superior Court bench. Zipp was selected to fill the vacancy created last year when now-Justice Jose Castillo was elevated to the 4th District Court of Appeal. The term runs through Jan. 3, 2027.
Matthew Boomhower was appointed by Mayor Todd Gloria as Vice-Chair of the San Diego Planning Commission in February 2024. The Planning Commission recommends changes in the City’s General Plan and community plans; makes recommendations on changes to the Land Development Code, re-zonings and related land use matters; and has final approval on subdivisions as well as many permit types. Planning Commission members are volunteers appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the City Council.
The legal profession has lost a prominent member with the passing of Jim Marinos. He was active in the San Diego legal community for decades, including serving as President of the San Diego Chapter of The American Board of Trial Advocates (ABOTA) from 1987-1988. He practiced law for over decades, engaging in over 150 trials in varied civil disputes, including complex personal injury, employer/employee, business, and corporate matters. Jim leaves behind his wife Diane, his children and grandchildren, and many close friends. He will be dearly missed.
The renovations at our new downtown Bar Center located at 330 A Street are progressing steadily. We know our members and staff alike are eager to have access to our new home. Here are some updates as we enter the next phase of preparations.
Phase one of the project has officially been completed. Construction work to our lobby, co-workspaces, and program rooms are complete. Each space has been beautifully furnished according to its needs. Our program rooms will seat approximately 16 – 22 people, while our private meeting rooms will seat 2 – 6 people.
Additionally, a portion of the SDCBA staff workspace has been completed and furnished. Located on the west side of the building will be office space for our Finance, Marketing, Programs and Events, Member Services, and Governance teams.
Phase two of the project includes the construction of a gender-neutral restroom and the upper mezzanine, as well as the elevator installation. The upper mezzanine will be home to our Lawyer Referral and Information Service (LRIS), Fee Arbitration, and Public Services team. The mezzanine concrete has been fully poured, and the framing and drywall are nearly complete. The elevator will access both the mezzanine and the rooftop. Work on the rooftop has been started, and the rooftop elevator house has been built. With those steps in progress the construction schedule is on track. The building is looking great!
We are eagerly anticipating our soft opening soon, with a Grand Opening Celebration in September to mark the SDCBA’s 125th anniversary! Stay tuned for more details and exciting updates to come.
All information shown is as of April 2024, and subject to change without notice. 2024 PARTNER
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Choose from a wide selection of timely CLE content spanning the gamut of topics, designed to best help you fulfill your CLE requirements. Visit www.sdcba.org/cle-center.
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The SDCBA’s Lawyer Referral and Information Service (LRIS) referred over 60,000 clients to participating lawyers in 2023, resulting in almost $8 million in legal fees earned. Learn more about joining LRIS at www.sdcba.org/joinlris.
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