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Jimmy Chin

Photo Credit: Jimmy Chin’s Facebok

WHEN WE CHOSE FEARLESS AS THE THEME FOR OUR WINTER ISSUE, WE WEREN’T CELEBRATING THE ABSENCE OF FEAR.

Outliers, people who stand apart, push boundaries, and chart unfamiliar courses, know fear as intimately as anyone.

The difference is, they’ve learned to move through it Being fearless doesn’t mean immune to trembling hands or a racing heart.

It means showing up despite them.

It’s saying yes when uncertainty looms

It’s doing the thing scared and trusting that the leap will reveal new ground.

In this issue, you’ll meet thinkers, creators, and builders who embody that truth

They remind us that courage is a choice, not a gift, one made daily, often in the shadow of doubt

Here’s to the outliers who fear less, act more, and inspire us all to find our own quiet bravery.

Scott MacGregor

PublisherandEditor-in-Chief

LETTER FROM THE PUBLISHER

A

is our greatest asset.

“guide for restoring authenticity, fostering genuine connection, and fulfilling our universal need to matter at work.”

—ZACH MERCURIO Ph.D.,

“A

must-read for rising leaders, HR pros, entrepreneurs, and CEOs alike.”

—FARNOOSH TORABI, author of The Power of Mattering bestselling author and host of So Money

FEATURE NO. 01

Voted Top 8 Most Inspirational People in History, Everest, 7Summits, Both Poles, Hawaii Ironman, 7 Marathons in 7 Days on 7 Continents with one lung, Global Keynote Speaker, Author, Mindset & Resilience Leader. FEAR LESS. LIVE MORE.

SEAN SWARNER with...

Q:Asateenager,youhadto fightforyourlifenotonce,but twice,withtwoterminal cancerdiagnoses.Howdidyou findthecourageandstrength tobeattheodds?

WhenIwasfirstdiagnosedwith cancerasateenager,myentireworld collapsedinaninstant.Onemoment Iwasthinkingaboutschool,sports, friends(theusualteenagestuff)and thenext,Iwassittinginasterile hospitalroom,myparentsbeingtold Ihadlessthanthreemonthstolive. Secondtime(differentcancer)Iwas given14days,readmylastrites,put intoayear-longmedically-induced coma,lostthefunctionofmyright lung.Myfirstgoalwastocrawleight feetfromthehospitalbedtothe bathroom Atfirst,Itriedtostay strong.Everyonearoundmewas terrified,soIfeltlikeIhadtobethe braveone.Butoneday,theweightof italljusthitme.Iwasintheshower, andasIranmyhandsthroughmy hair,clumpsstartedfallingout.Big handfulsofit.Irememberstaring downastheyslidintothedrain, watchingthewaterstarttobackup.I sankdowntothefloor,weak,bald patchesonmyhead,chemocoursing

through my body, and just let the water pour over me. The drain couldn’t keep up, and neither could I. I broke down. I remember thinking, this is it. This is how it ends. I didn’t even have a chance to live, but now I’m supposed to be preparing for my funeral? And then something happened. In that moment, I projected into the future I saw my mom, dad, and younger brother… but I wasn’t there with them. It hit me like a wave that image of my family living on without me. That was my turning point, because that vision absolutely crushed me. But at the same time, it woke something

-SEANSWARNER

up inside me. In that moment, I decided I wasn’t going to focus on not dying I decided to focus on living - however long that meant I couldn’t control the cancer, but I could control my perspective. I could choose what to focus on. So I made that decision, right there in the shower; soaking wet, shaking, surrounded by the evidence of what cancer was taking from me. That’s where the courage came from Not from some deep well of superhuman strength, but from a simple, powerful choice: to live each day as fully as I could, based on one of my Personal Core Values of Family And, I chose to give myself a chance at life, even when the odds said I had none.

Q:ThisisourFear

lessissue. Howdoyouthinkaboutand managefear?

Feardidn’tcontrolmeinthe beginning.Duringmyfirstcancer,I wasyoungandmaybetoonaïveto fullygraspwhatwashappening Ijust knewIhadtofight.Buteverything changedwiththeseconddiagnosis. That’swhenfeartrulytookholdof me.

DoctorstoldmeIhadfourteendays tolive.Fourteendays.Howdoyou evenprocesssomethinglikethat? Whenithappenedagain,suddenly, everysecondfeltheavier Nightswere thehardest.Irememberlyinginbed,

completely still, terrified to close my eyes, because I didn’t know if they’d open again the next morning That kind of fear isn’t loud or dramatic; it’s quiet, suffocating. It lives in your thoughts, in the silence between heartbeats.

I didn’t sleep much during that time. I’d stare at the ceiling, thinking about everything I’d never get to do the people I’d never get to say goodbye to But somewhere in those long nights, I realized something: fear only had power if I gave it permission to. I couldn’t stop it from showing up, but I could decide how to respond to it.

So I started using fear as a guide instead of a barrier. When I felt it rise up, I took it as a sign that I was still alive, and that there was still something worth fighting for. Fear stopped being a warning of death, and started becoming proof of life Now, when I feel fear, whether it’s standing at the base of Everest, building something new, or

stepping into an unknown future, I remind myself of those nights. If I could face the fear of not waking up, there’s nothing in this world that can truly stop me. We've all survived 100% of our most difficult times in life - and that's a pretty good record!

Q:Whatdoyouhopepeople takeawayfromthe documentary“TrueNorth:The SeanSwarnerStory”?

WhatIhopepeopletakeawayfrom TrueNorthisn’tjustinspiration,it’s permission.Permissiontobelieve thatnomatterwhatthey’refacing, there’salwaysawayforward.

Thefilmisn’tjustaboutsurviving cancerorclimbingmountains,it’s aboutrediscoveringwhatitmeansto live.It’saboutwhathappenswhen youstripeverythingaway your health,yourcomfort,yourcertainty andyou’releftwithonequestion: WhoamI,really?

WhenpeoplewatchTrueNorth,I wantthemtoseethemselvesinmy story.Thisisn’tjustmyjourney,it’sa mirrorforanyonewho’severfeltlost, broken,orhopeless.Mymountains maybephysical,buteveryonehas theirownEverest Everyonehastheir ownhugechallenges,andforme,it wasclimbingthehighestmountain oneverycontinentandskiingtoboth

the North and South Poles. True North shows people that a challenge feels impossible until you take the first step

I want viewers to walk away realizing that resilience isn’t about being unbreakable, it’s about allowing yourself to break, and still choosing to rise again. It’s about finding your true north; that inner compass pointing you to purpose, even when life knocks you completely off course.

If someone finishes the film and says, “If he can do that, maybe I can take one more step too,” then we’ve done what we set out to do. Because the truth is, your summit is waiting, you just have to believe you’re strong enough to reach it

Q:Youhavecompletedsome ofthemostgruelingfeatsin history:theExplorersGrand Slam,whichinvolvesclimbing thesevenhighestsummitson eachcontinent,and completingexpeditionstothe NorthandSouthPoles.You’ve alsocompletedtheWorld MarathonChallenge—seven marathonsinsevendayson sevencontinents.You competedintheHawaii IronmanChampionshipand summitedMt.Everest—all withonelung.Why,andhow?

PeopleoftenlookatthethingsI’ve doneandask,Why?How?

Buttherealquestionisn’thowIdid it,it’swhyIkeptgoingwhen everythinginmewantedtostop.The truthis,externalmotivation applause,medals,recognition it neverlasts.Itfadesasquicklyasit comes.Whatkeepsyoumoving whenthecamerasaregone,when thestormhits,whennoone’s watching,issomethingdeeper

Forme,it’spurpose.It’sthatinternal drive,that“why”thatsitsinyoursoul andrefusestoletyouquit.

powerful:there’sadifference betweenafalsesummitandatrue summit.Thefalsesummitiswhere mostpeoplestop,thepointwhere youthinkyou’vemadeit,onlyto realizethere’smoremountainleft That’slife.Thefalsesummitis comfort.It’stheillusionofarrival.The truesummit that’swheregrowth, fulfillment,andmeaninglive And theonlywaytoreachitisbydigging deeperthanyoueverthought possible.

Whenyoufindyourtruepurpose, yourtruenorth,itbecomesan untappedwellofenergyand resilience.It’snotaboutclimbing mountainsanymore;it’sabout uncoveringthestrengththat’sbeen insideyouallalong

SowhydoIdothesethings? Becauseeverystep,everysummit, everychallengestripsawaythenoise oftheworldandbringsmebackto whatmattersmost.

EveryexpeditionI'vebeenonhas remindedmeofsomething

Q:Whatpersonalbeliefsor mantrashelpyouovercome yourbiggestchallenges?

WhenIwasclimbingEverest,I repeatedamantrawitheverysingle step:“ThehigherIgo,thestrongerI get.”Itwasn’tjustaboutthe mountain,itwasaboutlife Every challenge,everyobstacle,everystep forward,nomatterhowpainful,was makingmestronger.

Inmychestpocket,closetomy heart,Icarriedasmallflag Onthat flagwerethenamesofpeople touchedbycancer friends, survivors,andthosewe’velost.When thingsgothard,whentheairwas thinandmybodywantedtoquit,I’d reachup,feelthatflag,and rememberwhyIwasthere.Thatwas myinspiration.Mydrive.Myhope. Whenyou’retryingtoaccomplish somethingnooneinhistoryhasever donebefore,youneedadrivenoone haseverhadbefore.Buthere’sthe thing:thatkindofdriveisn’treserved forafewpeople.It’ssomething everyonecanlearn Youjusthaveto findareasonthat’sbiggerthanyour excuses.

EverymorningwhenIwakeup,Itell myself,“Todayisthebestdayever” It’ssimple,butit’spowerful.Iwas neverguaranteedtomorrow,andthe truthis,noneofusare.Sowhy wouldn’twemakethemostofthe timewehave?

Growingup,myparentsnevertold meIhadtobethebest,butIalways hadtobeMYbest.That’salways stayedwithme Everyday,Itrytobe justalittlebitbetterthanIwas yesterday.That’swhatpersonal growthreallyis,right?Smallsteps, takenconsistently,withpurposeand gratitude

That’showI’vefacedeverychallenge. That’showI’vefacedeverychallenge: Everest,cancer,life.It’salwaysbeen onestep,onebreath,onebest-dayeveratatime

Q:Howdoyoubreakdown enormouschallengesinto manageablesteps? WhenI’mfacedwithsomething enormous,Ialwaysstartattheend.It doesn'tmatterifit'stheworld's highestmountain,orcrawlingeight feetfromthehospitalbedtothe bathroom.

askthatversionofme theone who’salreadyaccomplishedthegoal whatIneedtohearrightnow. Thatsimplementalshiftchanges everything Itmovesyoufromfearto clarity,fromconfusiontopurpose.

Mostpeoplelookatamassivegoal andgetoverwhelmedbyhowfar awayitfeels.ButI’velearnedthe secretisreverseengineeringit.I vividlyvisualizetheendresult(the momentI’vealreadyachievedit)and thenIworkbackwardsstepbystep untilI’mstandingwhereIamtoday.

We’reallcreaturesofhabit.Ifyou wanttobecomesomeonenewor accomplishsomethingdifferent,you can’texpectittohappenovernight andyoucan’texpecttogetthere bydoingwhatyou’vealwaysdone. Changedoesn’trequireacomplete overhaul;it’ssmall,intentionalshifts repeatedconsistently.

Soinsteadoflookingbackwardand wishingIcouldgiveadvicetomy pastself,Iprojectintothefutureand

Buthere’sthekey:yourendgoalhas tohaveanemotionalconnection. Youhavetofeelit.Youneedtoseeit sovividlyinyourmindthatit becomesrealbeforeiteverhappens. Thatemotionaltiegivesyourgoal meaning,andmeaninggivesyou momentumwithanunstoppable drive

Andfinally,themostimportantpart: enjoytheprocess.Don’tgetso focusedonthesummitthatyoumiss theclimb Thesmalldailywins,the challenges,thegrowth-that'show youbecomethepersoncapableof reachingthatsummitinthefirst place.

Dailyprogress.Celebratethesmall wins.Lookbacktoseehowfaryou’ve come.

Q:Whatdoes“redefining possible”meantoyou personally?

"Redefiningpossible”isn’tjusta phrase,it’smylife.

Whendoctorsgaveme14daysto live,“possible”wasdefinedby statistics Whentheysaiditwasn't physiologicallypossibletoclimb

Everestwithonelung,that"possible" wasdefinedbyothers'limitations. Butpossibilitychangesthemoment youdecidetostopaccepting someoneelse’sdefinitionofwhat’s achievable.

Redefiningpossiblemeansrefusing tolettheworldtellyouwhoyouare orwhatyou’recapableof Itmeans takingevery“youcan’t”andturning itaroundinto“maybeYOUcan't.” Onapersonallevel,it’sabout rewritingtheboundariesinyourown mindfirst EverysummitI’ve climbed,everychallengeI’vetaken on,startedwithonedecision:to believe.Tobelievethatmypurpose wasstrongerthanmyfear Tobelieve thatmylifecouldmeansomething beyondmydiagnosis.

It’snotjustaboutclimbing mountainsorsettingrecords,it’s abouthelpingothersseethattheir impossiblecanberedefinedtoo. Becauseonceyouexpandwhatyou believeispossibleforyourself,you expandwhat’spossibleforeveryone elsearoundyou

Soforme,redefiningpossiblemeans turningpainintopurpose,turning “whyme?”into“whatnow?”,and realizingthattheonlyreallimitsthat existaretheonesweplaceon ourselvesinourownminds.

Q:Whoinspiresyoutokeep pushingboundaries?

Thepeoplewhoinspiremearen’t alwaysfamousorstandingon podiums.They’retheoneswho refusetogiveup,evenwhenlife knocksthemdown.Oneofmy biggestinspirationshasalwaysbeen myfamily:myparents,my grandparents,andmyyounger brother.Watchingtheirlove, resilience,andunwaveringsupport gavemeareasontokeepgoing whenIhadnothingelse.

Butbeyondthat,it’sthepeople whoseliveshavebeentouchedby cancer Thesurvivors,thefighters, theoneswe’velost.Carryingtheir storieswithme,especiallyon expeditionsandraces,remindsme thatmygoalsaren’tjustforme. They’reforallofuswhorefusetobe definedbyourcircumstances.

Ialsodrawinspirationfromthe challengeitself Everymountain, everymarathon,everyextremefeat hasitsownlessons.Theypushmeto discoverstrengthsIdidn’tknowI had.Andinthatsense,the impossiblebecomesateacher, showingmehowmuchfurtherIcan go,andremindingmethat boundariesareoftenjustwallswe haven’tlearnedtoclimbover-yet. Sowhoinspiresme?Everyonewho refusestoacceptdefeat.

Q:Howdoyouapproach helpingothersdiscovertheir potential?

WhenIhelpothersdiscovertheir potential,it’sneveraboutgiving themaformulaorashortcut.Real growthdoesn’tcomefromsomeone elsetellingyouwhattodo,itcomes fromhelpingpeopleseewhat’s alreadyinsidethem Justbecausea certain"formula"workedforone person,doesn'tmeanit'saplug-andplayanswerforeveryone.

Istartbyaskingquestionsthatforce reflection:Whodoyouwanttobe? What’smissinginyourliferight now?What’sholdingyouback? Thenweprojectintothefuture, imaginingthatbestversionof themselves,andworkbackwardto figureoutwhatstepstheyneedto taketoday.That’swhereclarity comesfrom.

Ialsoemphasizemindsetover motivation Externalmotivationis temporary,itfades.Whatlastsis internalpurpose,andthatcomes fromwithin.Ihelppeopleuncover thatdeepreasonforpursuingtheir goals,andoncetheyfindit,it becomesanuntappedwellofdrive andresilience.

Finally,Iremindthemtofocuson process,notjustoutcome Youcan’t controleveryresult,butyoucan controlyoureffort,yourmindset,and yourdailychoices.Growthhappens onedayatatime,onedecisionata time,andeventuallythatconsistent actionrevealstheirtruepotential. Themostrewardingpartisseeing thatmomentwhensomeone realizes:I’mstrongerthanIthought. I’mcapableofmorethanIever thoughtpossible.Ialsoleadothersto discovertheirpotentialbyleadingan annualclimbupKilimanjaro,a fundraiserforacancercharitythat sponsorsasurvivoreachyear,who thenraisesfundsforthenext

Anyonecanjoinus,youjusthaveto haveanadventurousspirit ThisJuly willmarkmy28thtrip,andwhilethe mountain’saveragesummitsuccess rateisonly48%,mygroupsareat 99%becausewedothings differently Fromthemoment someonesignsup,theylearnit’snot anexpedition it’sanInspedition,an inwardjourneythroughanoutward adventure.It’sneveryouversusthe mountainorMotherNature;it’syou

versusyou.Oversevendaysof climbingandafour-daySerengeti safari,Iwatchpeopletransformfrom theirinitial“ohshit”momentwhen theyfirstseehowhighthemountain is,tothetearsoftriumphandselfdiscoveryatthesummit Allalong thewaywemakeitmorethanjusta hike.Reachouttomeifyou’re interested: Summit@SeanSwarner.com

What does it mean to you to be an outlier?

Being an outlier isn’t about being the fastest, the strongest, or the most famous. It’s about refusing to be defined by the limits that society (or even life itself) tries to put on you It’s about seeing possibilities where others see obstacles and choosing to act on them It's about looking at fear, failure, and impossible odds, and saying, “Not today. I will try anyhow.”

Being an outlier means standing at the edge of what’s considered “normal” and having the courage to take the next step anyway. It’s about embracing discomfort, chasing challenges that feel impossible, and learning to see fear as a compass rather than a barrier

But most importantly, being an outlier is about responsibility. When you’ve been given the chance to redefine what’s possible, whether it’s in your own life or for others, it’s your duty to show people that their own potential isn’t limited by what they’ve been told or what they’ve experienced in the past It's about igniting that spark in people to discover the strength, courage, and resilience inside themselves So for me, being an outlier isn’t just a title. It’s a mindset. It’s a choice every day to live beyond limits, redefine what's possible, pursue purpose, and inspire others to do the same.

Q:Nina,telluswhatyouwere likeasakidgrowingupin Colorado.

Wow.Thatcouldbethehappiest questionyoucouldhaveaskedme Asawhole,growingupinColorado wasadream.Imean,youhave mountains,youhavethecity,you havethelakes.It'sjustawonderland forkids Ihavetwoolderbrothers,soI reallygrewupjustlookinguptomy olderbrothersastheywereguiding methroughwhattheworldof Denver,whattheworldoflivingin ourfamily,lookedlike Iwenttoa privateelementaryschool,middle school,publichighschool. Somewherealongmylatemiddle school/earlyhighschoolyears,I startedtorecognizemygiftfor dancing.

Iwasdancingatarecreationalstudio. Anditwasreallyfunny,becauseonce Istarteddancingalot,myfamily wouldalwaysgouptothemountains ontheweekends.Theywerealways outsidehiking.Iwasthecomplete opposite.Iendedupinside,indoors, inabox,24/7

Icouldn'thavebeenhappieratthe time.Iwassohappy.Myfreshman

year, I started to get really good And I loved the art of dance and performing more than anything in the world. When I think back on my childhood, I have memories as a really young child with my family

It was so happy. I was always outside. And then I just had dance. And dance is like the crux of what I think created my work regimen, the way I thought about having passion be at the forefront of my day, my work, my job, and my life.

When I got to high school, I started competing in national dance

“FEARACTUALLYEXCITESMEANDMAKESME

-NINABARTELL

competitions. I would travel every weekend to different states, meeting new friends I had, like, a Hannah Montana life, I always felt At the time, I was in public high school at a school where there were 850 people in my class.

All my friends were athletes, lacrosse players. I would go watch them. And then right after school, I would drive to dance, and I'd be there from 3:00 PM to 10:30 or 11:00 PM I'd come home. I was in AP classes, studying, homework, everything, go to bed, and I'd get to school at 7:00 and kind of continued on

What really changed the mark for me, I think, growing up there, was once I found the love of dance, I was able to turn it into utilizing all the skills from dance into everything else that I was doing in my childhood. Dance requires you to be extremely disciplined It requires you to really pay attention to what's going on, because you're in a class for two and a half hours.

You don't get your phone You don't even have it as an option. If you look away at the wrong time, you could get kicked out of class. If you walk in one second late, you don't get invited to class And so translating that into school, I was a really good student.

GPA. I think I ended up 11th in my class or something like that. And all that going on, while having the balance of my family, who knew nothing about dance, was the coolest juxtaposition. And I think that phrase, that statement, is what carried me through to how I feel about my life now.

I can explain that a little more. I never had the dance mom I never had the dance parents. I had parents who told me, "Hey, Nina, let's go on a hike. Hey, Nina, come watch your brother's football game. How'd you do in class?" Of course, supporting me in dance, but they really gave me the opportunity to individualize myself.

If I wanted it as a dancer, I had to make it for myself, and I had to get there. And eventually, I won nationals. So I was the National Teen Outstanding Dancer after my sophomore year of high school. That skyrocketed me into the world of national dance.

I definitely strived for the highest

I felt like a lot of connections were now really accessible for me in New York and LA, the dance capitals of the country. And I started to see my trajectory as a dancer.

Q: You picked one of the most rigorous schools you could possibly go to, Juilliard. What drew you to apply, and then ultimately enroll there?

Great question Juilliard is, I mean, it's an anomaly of a school, right? For those who don't know what it is, it's a performing arts school and they have dance, theater, and music as the three majors, and that's it.

My class was 12 girls and 12 boys for dancers, and that was kind of it. What drew me to apply initially is I had been training and traveling with a company called New York City Dance Alliance. That was the nationals that I won

And I had incredible mentors, Joe Lantieri, Andy Pelic, Joey Dalley. There were a lot of them. And they were all in the New York dance scene. Joe Lantieri actually taught at Juilliard. And when you have the opportunity to audition, it's kind of like a why not Honestly, when I first auditioned, there was no way I thought that I was gonna get in.

There was 0% of me that was like, "Oh, yeah, I'll get in" It was kind

of like, "Oh, it's the first audition I'm doing on my college audition tour. It'll be great practice. I'm gonna do as much as I can" I had actually gone to the Juilliard Summer Dance Intensive the year prior, and you have to get accepted to that as well.

So once I auditioned, I mean, I could talk through that entire process. It was wild. But once I auditioned, I kind of said, "Okay. It is what it is. I'm gonna leave it be. I'm assuming I don't get in Expect the worst, hope for the best, and let's go onto the next one." And then, yeah, I mean, I could get into whatever you're interested in hearing about, but you kind of have to go into that type of thing saying, "You know what? Whatever happens, happens 'cause I'm one of 12 women all over the country who are gonna be picked"

Q:That'sanincredible attitude.SoIthinkthe interestingthingfroman Outlierstandpointisthat, onceagain,youdidn'tsmash theeasybuttonwhenyou appliedtoDuke.Whatdidyou learnfromattendingwhatI thinkisarguablyoneofthe mostprestigiousschoolsin thecountry?

Yeah.Goodquestion.Dukewas someofthebestthreeyearsofmy life.IthinkIlearnedthemindsetI hadgoingintoDukewasthatIdidn't knowwhatIdidn'tknow Andwe hearthatallthetime.ButIhadbeen sohyperfocusedondance.

Thatwasit Ikneweverythingthere wastoknow,justlikementally Obviously,therewasmuchmoreto improvephysicallyandmentally.But IfeltlikeIknewnothingelse.I rememberthefeelingIhadwhenI gottoDukeandofcourse,everyone hasimpostersyndrome,butIwas lookingaroundandIwasinroomsof someofthesmartestpeopleI'veever met,right?

Academicallyintelligent.AndIwas like,"WhatamIdoinghere?"AndI satdownwithmyselfandIsaid,"I don'tknowwhatIdon'tknow Thisis myopportunitytomeetasmany peopleasIpossiblycan,totakeas

manyclassesindifferentgenresthat Ican,andtofigureoutwhatIdon't likemorethanwhatIdolike.Iwant toknowwhatIdon'tlike.Iwantto knowthetypesofpeoplethatIwant tobearoundandlearnabout,not justwhatI'minterestedin."

Iwassousedtobeingaroundpeople andthingsthatIwasreally understandingof,andIknewabout theworldofdance,thearts.

Iwasn'tusedtobeingaroundpeople whoweresuperinterestedin mathematicsandreallyinterestedin literatureanddifferentareasof classicsandstufflikethat.SoIthink, allinall,whatIlearnedmostistobe opentoknowingthatyoudon't knowwhatyoudon'tknow,andjust trytobeaspongeandlearnasmuch asyoucaninanewenvironmentlike that.

Q:SothisisourFearlessissue, whichIthinkisacommon traitofOutliers.AndIthink fearlessdoesn'tnecessarily meantheabsenceoffear.It meansbeingscaredand doingitanyway.Howhave youlookedatandmanaged fearthroughoutyourlife?

Ithink,likeyousaid,everyonehas fear.That'llnevergoaway.Ihaven't alwaysbeenlikethis,butIthinkthe mentalityofpushingyourself towardsachievingsomethingthat youknowmaynotbeachievable givesyousuchasenseofsatisfaction afterwards,whetherornotyou achievedit.Thejourneygetting thereisalmostlike,"Whynottry eventhoughI'mscared?"Ithinkthat there'saninitialperiodofhavingto figureoutthatthat'sthefeeling.

Sopeoplewhoareafraidofthefear, it'slike,okay,justdoitonetimeand you'llrecognizethatnomatterwhat, thingswillworkout.It'sokayifyou don'tsucceed,it'sokayifyoudon't getthere,butthefeelingthatyou getbyputtingyourselfinthe uncomfortable…growthdoesn't happenincomfort.Itonlyhappens indiscomfort.Withdance,you're constantlyindiscomfort.You're constantlybeingtoldyou'renot goodenough,andit'safearfulthing toputyourselfinfrontofahuge

audience.Iwasinthemiddleofthe stage,performingmyheartout, beingvulnerablewithmyemotions toanentireaudiencethatIdon't know,right?

AndsoIthinkthatinitiallyjumpstartedthefeelingof,"Youknow what?Fearactuallyexcitesmeand makesmewanttopursuemore,and makesmewanttofeelthefeelingof 'IcantrywhateverIwantto,evenifI don'tsucceed.'"AfterDuke,andafter Igraduated,Iwasgoingintothe corporateworldbecausethatwas whatIwastoldtodo,butIquickly realizeditwasn'tforme.

Justacoupleofexamples,everyone waslike,"Stayinmanagement consultingfortwoyearsandthen you'llget…"

reallyquickly,doquickmath.Iwasin boardroomswhenIwas21yearsold. Literally,IwouldflytoSanFrancisco andbeinaboardroomofaFortune 500company,andIwasbeingasked whattodoabouttheirfrickingcosts andtheirSKUs,andIhadnoidea whatIwastalkingabout

Q:Thatwasliterallymynext question.

Youknow,managementconsulting andfinanceweretwothingsthatI wouldsaydabbledin,andobviously theyweren'tfulfilling.SoIwas curiouswhatwasmissing.

Ithinkitwasthepassion.Thepart thatwasmissingwhenIwasinthe corporateworld,infinance,intech, wasjustthepassionfordoingwhatI couldseemyselfdoinglongterm. AndwhatIrealizenow,lookingback, isthateverystepthatIhadhas actuallyallowedmetodowhatI wanttodotoday,andwhatIam doingtoday.

WhenIwasinmanagement consulting,Ilearnedhowtothink

IthinkIquicklyrealized,"Okay,wait, thisisn'tforme.Idon'tlikethis lifestyle."Peopleweresaying,"Stay twoyears"Isaid,"WhywouldIstay twoyears?"Andagain,that'snotthe rightanswer.It'sjustthewaythatI wantedtolivemylifewasIdidn't wanttowasteanypartofit,and onceIfeltlikeIknewwhatIwas gettingmyselfintoandIdidn'tlikeit, I'mgonnagetout,becauseIcan keeplearninginothersituations.

Iwentintotechsales,wentintotech strategy,thenwentintoVC Iwasan investmentassociateforan enterpriseSAAStechfirm.WhenI wasworkingattheventurecapital firm,Irecognized andthiswasthe lastcorporatejobIhad -whatI'm goodatandIrealizedwhatIdon't like.

Ilovetalkingtofoundersallday.I wasprettygoodatresearch Iwas goodatunderstandingthemarket.I wasaspongewhenitcametothe financesandunderstandingthe investmentsideofit,butwhatI reallylovedwastalkingtothe foundersandlearninghowtheybuilt

doing.

IthinkthebraverythatIhad,being abletoswitchjobsandnotworry aboutwhatwasgoingtohappen, butknowthatIcouldcreatemy storyinawaythatpeoplewillbe interested,becauseit'ssomething verydifferent,gavemealittleedge onlifeandonhowtoperceivelife.

AndIevenseethattoday,wecan getintoit,butIrandomlyappliedfor theKnicksdanceteam.Ihadn't dancedinsevenyearsandIsaid,"IfI happentogetthis,"which,hey, listen,zeroexpectations.Ihaven't takenadanceclassinsevenyears amazing,letmegodothatformy lifestory.Letmebuildthestorythat I'mtryingtocreate,becauseno matterwhat,ifIwanttogetback intoworkingforacompany,build myowncompany,whateveritisI wanttodoafterwards,Iwillbeable tohaveastoryandtellastoryabout whatIlearnedandthereasonIdidit.

Soit'sactuallywaymoreinteresting thansomeonewhocomesinand justhasthistypicaltwoyearshere, andtwoyearsthere,andtwoyears here,andit'swhateveryoneelsedid Notthatthere'sanythingwrongwith that,butIjustknewIhadadifferent journeythere.Andworkingthrough thefearof“maybeIwon'tgetthis,or maybeIwillendupwithoutajob, or…whatif?” you'relivinginthe

whatifs AndasIalwaystalktomy menteesabout,whatifsdon'tget youanywhere.Whatifskeepyouina worlduphereintheclouds,where youarecomplaining,orsad,orangry, orconfusedmoretimesthanyou needtobe,becausethatwhatif hasn'thappenedyet.

Sowhenyou'redownhereonEarth andyou'regrounded,pretendthere's nowhatif,andyou'rejustgonnago withyourintuitionandyourlogic andseewhereitgetsyou.Fear,to menow,isapartofmyeveryday youmightaswellpushyourself

WATCH THIS NEXT PART!

Let's get into that. So you're currently pursuing an entrepreneurial path, which can be pretty terrifying. Tell us what you're building and, and why.

Tune in to Scott and Nina’s conversation about this question here:

Q: You had answered this question a little bit before, but my next question was: You decided to try out for arguably the most prestigious dance team in the NBA, and you were selected as one of 14 people on the team for the New York Knicks for their '24/'25 season.

Whatwasthatexperiencelike asawhole?Whatwerethe bestpartsand,andmaybethe lowlights?

Itwasawhirlwindofayear,I'lltell youthat.AndI'msogladthatItried tostayaspresentaspossibleduring it,becauseitalmostfeelslikeitdidn't happen.Dancinginfrontof25,000 peopleeverysinglegame,andthere arethreetofourgamesaweekonce you'reintheheightoftheseason,is afeelingthatI'veneverfeltbefore.

Youfeellikeyou'realmostonacloud, becauseyou'renotlookingdirectly atanaudience,right?Thereare people360degreesaroundyou.And soyourmaingoalistoliterallyjust dowhatyoudo,whatyou'vebeen practicing,enjoyit,havefun,andfeel proudaboutthefactthatIamoneof 14people.

Iwasincrediblyinspiredbytheother 13dancersthatIwaschosento dancewith Someofthesegirls,allof them,havedancedwithsomeofthe topcelebritiesintheworld,thetop popstars.Theywereextremely genuine.Somehowwehadateamof womenthatweweregenuinely sisters.

Therewaszerocompetitiveness. Therewasnodrama.Weliterallyjust wereateamandwewantedtohelp eachotherout,anditwasthefirst timeinalongtimethatIfeltlikeI hadagroupofpeoplearoundme doingthesamethingasmeandwe wereallpushingeachothertobe better.

Betterpeople,betterdancers.This includestheadministration,our management,coaches Itwasayear ofself-growth'causeasadancer, you'reconstantlyinfrontofamirror. We'rewearingtheseshortdresses, butwe'reextremelytechnical dancers,right?Andsoourgoalwas tocontinuouslyimproveandIthink seeingyourselfbeingreflectedback

ontoyou,itrequiresyoutogrowa confidencethatyoumaynothave hadbeforebecauseyouneedto walkintothatstadiumfeelinglike youarethehottestgirl,themost powerfulpersoninandofyourself.

Notagainstotherpeople,not comparedtootherpeople,butIwas reallywowedbythefactthatifyou lookedattheteamfromdayone comparedtoday60,wewere transformedinourperspectives,and thewaythatwespoke,andtheway thatwetalkedaboutourprofession.

Thatwasalot.ButthereIcould literallygoonforhoursaboutmy experiencethere.Weweregiventhe opportunitytomeetsomeofthe mosttalentedperformersinthe world.Wegottodancewithsomeof themosttalentedperformersinthe world.Andallofthatbeingsaid,we weredoingitasateamandasa group,andtherewasconsistency thatfeltsocomforting.

Ilovedit.I'mso,sogratefulthatIdid it.Andyou'rerepresentingNewYork City,thebestcityintheworld...

Q:Travelseemslikeavery importantpartofyourlife. Whathavebeensomeofthe mostmemorableexperiences recently?

Ooh.Goodquestion.Iwillsayinthe pasttwoorthreeyears,I'vedonea lotofreallyinterestingtravel.One highlightwas IgrewupinColorado Iwasahiker,Icampedallthetime.I hadneverclimbedbefore,meaning climbing,backpacking,goingacross crevassesoranythinglikethat.

I,alongwithmyboyfriend,wentto KathmanduinNepal,andwewere abletotraveltotheEverestregion.I spenttwoandahalfweeks,hikingto basecamp,andthenIendedup climbingKalaPatthar,whichwasa bitabovetheelevationofbasecamp ofEverest.

Alongtheway,wewerestoppingin littleteahuts.Weweremeetingthe NepalesepeopleandtheSherpa people.Itwastrulyoneofthemost incredibleexperiencesfroma culturalandanadventure perspective,anditdefinitelygotmy mindrighton,hey,talkingaboutour questionfromearlier,fear,youcan befearful

Aslongasyou'repreparedandyou kindofknowwhattheexpectations aregoingtobe,youjustkindofhave togowiththeflowoftheprocess andtheadventure.Sothatwasreally amazingtravelforme.

Q:What'sonthebucketlist forthefuture?

Soit'sreallyfunny Ihavealways dreamedofgoingtoCapeTown Aboutthreeyearsago,Ihadaplanto movetoCapeTown,bymyself actually.Luckily,Imetmynow boyfriend,sothatplanwasderailed Butthat'sdefinitelynextonmylist, goingtoCapeTown.

Q:Whatwasthedraw,the drawnotonlytotravelthere, buttopotentiallylivethere?

Youknow,IthinkIhavealwayshad anitchtoliveabroad,andlive somewherewherethere'sadifferent culture,whereIwouldmeetvery differenttypesofpeople It'sjust alwaysbeeninmeandIdidn'tdoit whenIwasyoungerincollegeor anything.CapeTownspecifically,I wantedtogosomewhereEnglish speaking,justsobeingthereasa solofemaletraveler,Iwouldn'thave thatextralayer.

Iwantedtogosomewherewarm, andIhavesomefriendswhoactually grewupinCapeTown Theylivein NewYorknow.AndeverythingIwas hearingwasthatyouhavethe mountains,youhavetheocean,you havebeaches,healthyfood,healthy living,peoplewhowanttobetheir bestselves.

There’slotsoffocusonselfimprovementandjustrecognitionof whereweareintoday'sageinterms oflongevity.AndsoIwasjustdrawn there,andIhadneverevenbeen.I startedreachingout,andmywhole thingIsayis...alotofpeoplesaythis, butonceyouhaveanopenmind aboutsomethingandyoustart projectingitintotheworldand manifesting,thingsdotrulyhappen.

CapeTown,allofasudden,Ihadan entirecommunityinCapeTownand peoplewerehelpingmefindan apartment.Ihadanapartmentand allofasuddenIhadgrandparents invitingmeoverforthefirstweekI wasmoving.

Andtherewasjustafeelingthereof hominessandwarmth,but adventure,becauseIdidn'thave peopletherewhowerejustgoingto giveanythingtome.Iwasgoingto buildit.Iwasgoingtobuildmy community Iwasgoingtobuildthe volunteerprogramIwantedtowork withthere.

IthinkthatI'malwaysdrawnto actionwhereifIputinthework, that'swhatIgetback,that'swhatI earned.It'sactuallyfunny,at RunningMan,JesseItzlerwas talkingabout,inoneofhisspeeches, howhisfatherneverlethimwinat chess.Hismaintakeawayfromthat wasthathisfathertaughthimthat youneedtoearnsomethinginorder tofeelfulfilled.

OnceIdecidedIwanttomoveto

TherehavebeensomanytimesI'm sofortunatethatthingsaregiven becauseofmaybemynetworkor becauseofjustmyprivilege,right? AndIthinkI'verealized,overthelast fewyears,thatinordertofeel selfishlyfulfilled,thetravelthatis goingtofeelthemostfulfilling andtheactivitiesandthebuilding andthejobsthatwillfeelthemost fulfilling aretheoneswhereIam puttingintheworkandI'mpassing thefearlevel

IthinkCapeTownwould'vebeena lotofwork.Itwould'vebeenalotof worktofindmycommunityand figureoutwhatmylifewouldbe there,andIthinkitwouldbe extremelyfulfilling.Andthatgoesto anytriporanythingthatI'mworking through.

It'sobviouslyfuntohave connections,butalittlepartofme reallylikestohavetoearnwhatI'm doing.AndIthinkinmyday-to-day process,I'mconstantlydoingthatby developingmyowncharacter,so Q:Nina,youhavesomuch stuffgoingonyourplate.I thinkoneofthethingsthat peoplestrugglewith tremendouslyisbalance,and feelingoutofbalanceorburnt out.AndIthinkit'sverycool thatalreadyatayoungage,

youhavepeoplethatyou mentor. Whatadvicewouldyouhave forpeoplethatarestruggling tomaintainbalanceintheir lives?

Actually,I'mworkingonthatwitha coupleofthekidsthatIworkwith. It'sactuallyinteresting sorry,notto caveat butseeingthatevenkidsin highschoolandcollegearehavinga hardtimebalancing,right?There's somuchbeingthrownatthem.I don'tthinkthere'sonerightanswer, andIthinkatsomepointpeople,for themostpart,feelwhatitfeelslike togetburntout Youseewhatit feelsliketogettotheendofyour steam.AndI'mnotsayingyouhave togetthere.Butonceyou'reatthe pointthatyourecognize,"Okay,I cannotaddanythingelseontomy plate.Ifeelburntout.IfeellikeIhave noinspiration."

Atthatpoint,it'saboutcreatingyour prioritiesandrecognizingyour buckets.Wedolittleexercises,butI say,"Whatareyourvalues?Create yourvalues.Withinyourday-to-day, andwithinthethingsthatyouare puttingontoyourplate,whatdoyou lookatandsay,'IactuallywishthatI didn'thavetodothistoday.Iactually amnotinterestedindoingthis anymore.'Or,'Idon'treallywantto gotolunchwiththatperson'

What doesn't align with who you truly are and are you doing it just because it's a ritual, because it's a tradition, or just because you think you should? And here come the shoulds and the what ifs"

Look at your day-to-day and simply cross out the things that don't align with your values, and if you aren't sure, then you need to do some deep value work, recognize what your values are, and then slowly it's not gonna happen immediately -but slowly you can start to strip away the things that aren't working for you.

This is where the fear comes in. If you have something on your plate, if your job isn't aligning with your values, you could have nothing else on your plate aside from your job and it will

make you feel burnt out because it's not who you are, it's not where you want to be, and it's not what you want to do.

If that's the thing that is causing this feeling, I say align with your values, tap into the fear state, and say, "Hey, it'll all work out." I had a mentor of mine tell me this probably four years ago She said, "No one will take you out of your unhappiness except for you." So if you are unhappy, get yourself out of it. You have to take the initiative to do it, because if you keep saying, "Well, I will," or, "I need more research," or, "I have to figure this out first," nothing needs to be figured out first Just do it Once you do it, you're in motion Once you're in motion, it's hard to stop.

What does it mean to you to be an outlier?

Being an outlier means you're living your authentic life. People often are extremely successful and do incredible things, but if it's not who they are authentically to themselves, in my opinion, you're not an outlier, because it's really difficult to be authentically yourself and do what you authentically want to do. Again, I do recognize that this is a privileged way of thinking

Not everyone has the ability to do what is authentically them. But for people who do, I think allowing yourself to be that outlier creates an environment of possibility. Even people who maybe don't have the privilege, there are so many outliers in that world as well, in that community. People who are authentically showing up how they want to show up and authentically providing care and kindness in the way that they want to, those are outliers

You don't need to do anything extremely extravagant in order to be an outlier because it's rare to find people who are authentically 100% themselves.

The Confidence Creator: Heather Monahan on Risk-Taking, Resilience, and Why You Should Always Be an Outlier

“I choose to see fear as a green light that means go and go faster.”

-Heather Monahan

In this Fearless Issue, we dive deep with business powerhouse, speaker, and author Heather Monahan, whose life story is the very definition of turning hardship into triumph Raised by a single mother in humble circumstances in Worcester, Massachusetts, Heather's early life was a challenging training ground that instilled an insane work ethic and relentless drive.

From working a paper route at nine, to climbing the corporate ladder to Chief Revenue Officer, her journey is a testament to the power of self-belief and sheer grit. She’s the girl from a trailer who now enjoys a high-rise view in Miami, a feat she attributes not to luck, but to "unbelievable risk-taking, hard work, and relentlessness."

She redefines fear not as a barrier, but as a "green light that means go and go faster," sharing candidly about overcoming paralyzing self-doubt, including the anxiety leading up to her own TEDx talk. Prepare to be inspired as Heather, the ultimate giant slayer, pulls back the curtain on what it truly takes to achieve your biggest goals, embrace your unique nature, and live life as a glorious outlier: a glass of champagne in a world of vanilla. COVER STORY WITH HEATHER MONAHAN -

Scott MacGregor

Let's start at the beginning. You grew up in Worcester, Massachusetts, and were raised by a single mom who worked multiple jobs. At one point you lived in a trailer, I believe behind your grandparents' house. And I've got to believe that those humble beginnings really had an impact on you and shaped you. Tell us a little bit about how that upbringing shaped your life.

Heather: So, I have heard from many people that there's a story that I grew up with privilege, right? I did not Anyhow, listen, my childhood was tough We were like four wild animal children You know, getting on a lot of times without much supervision or guidance And again, not that my mother didn't love us She did But she had to work My grandparents were not the best situation, but she didn't really know anywhere else to go. So, it was definitely tough. However, when I look back on my childhood, what I realize now is, you know, I was working at nine years old. And I remember at the time, you don't know any different. You only know your life at that point. It wasn't like social media everywhere, phones everywhere So I wasn't like, "Oh, this is what's going on, you know, 30 minutes from here " No I just knew my life and so it was just normal I worked all the time I had a paper route right away at nine or ten, and then that morphed into bussing tables in a diner before I was old enough to work, and then that morphed into me working at a fast food restaurant. Then I became 16 or whatever, when I could work at nicer places, and I worked at nicer restaurants. I became a hostess,

and then a waitress, and then a bartender. And so what I now realize is that tough childhood instilled this insane work ethic within me, and it gave me a jumpstart on everybody that from the time I was nine until I graduated college, I had this whole training ground in sales that I was really perfecting I didn't know it at the time And when I did become old enough to know what other people had, obviously, you know, I was bummed I didn't have all these different things other people had. But I knew I wanted to get it, and it really put this drive and ambition within me that I certainly wouldn't have had if I didn't grow up like that.

Do you ever pinch yourself when you're looking out your balcony in Miami, 50 plus stories, looking out at the water? Do you ever pinch yourself and say, "How did this girl from Worcester get here?"

Heather: No. Gosh, no. Because I know exactly how I got here: through unbelievable risk-taking, hard work, relentlessness, belief in myself, taking chances that when I look back I can't believe that I did. Like moving, leaving Boston and moving to Saginaw, Michigan sight unseen to run my first company with no formal training and no partner there My business partner stayed back in Boston, and running that company at 24 years old alone? No, these are crazy things that I've done

When I look back on it, and compare it to conversations I now have with other people, the things I've done were major risks, major at-bats. And of course you're going to have different level outcomes if you go all in on things like that, and on yourself. I also knew I didn't love where I grew up. And the older I became and went to college and I just thought, "It's gray here all the time I don't love it " Having gotten the opportunity to go to Florida on vacation, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I would love to live somewhere beautiful Wow Like there's beautiful places in the world you can choose to live " So once I kind of figured that out, I thought, "Okay, how much money do I need to make to get myself to live there?" And that's what I worked out real quick.

everybody how this book accidentally became a reality.

Your first book, Confidence Creator, was a number one bestseller with a very interesting backstory. Tell

Heather: I had done very well in the radio business from a very young age, and all kind of by chance. I ended up in the radio business by chance, because I got sexually harassed at the Gallo Winery where I was a salesperson, and I left with no job. Then I went to work for this guy I didn't know 'cause I met him at an event Google didn't exist back then, so I couldn't google him He's like, "You need to come to work for me " I'm like, "You can't afford me " He said, "Throw out a number " I'm like, "$80,000 " Turns out the guy was worth, you know, 500 million I had no idea Anyhow, I went to work for him. My boyfriend cheats on me. That drove me to go to work like a

train wreck And he said, "Oh my gosh, you're a train wreck You cannot operate like this " And I said, "I need to get out of this town because I need to get away from this guy " And he said, "Great Get on a plane and become my partner " So we sold that company for $55 million, netting ourselves and our team $30 million.

I had a non-compete that the new company put on me 'cause they wanted me to stay, which I was never gonna do, so I moved to Florida to pitch myself for a job that didn't exist for a publicly traded company. I got into that company, was there 14 years, was promoted three times, became the chief revenue officer, did incredibly well there And then I was fired when the CEO I worked for for 14 years became ill and promoted his daughter to replace him She was my arch nemesis and my number one villain And I had an 18month non-compete, non-solicit, which meant I had to leave the industry I was

an expert in and start over somewhere as a beginner So I put a post up on social media, "I've just been fired If I’ve ever done anything for you, I need to hear from you now."

That post went viral and landed me on The Elvis Duran Show. And halfway through that interview, he spoke life and belief into me, and saw something in me I didn't see in myself, and he said, "Heather, obviously you're writing a book " I said, "Obviously," but I wasn't I had grown up the social one and my sister was the smart one, so I never thought I could write a book I jumped on a plane to head back to Miami from New York, and I Googled, "How do you write a book?" And it turns out anyone could write a book, you just need to sit down and write. And so that's what I did.

You’ve been named one of the top 50 keynote speakers in the world. What do you love about taking massive stages?

Heather: That you can impact massive amounts of people, right? I think that there are certain things anyone is inherently good at. And the funny thing, or the ironic thing, is when I was a little kid, probably like 10 years old, I loved acting. I went to public school at the time and you had to pick music or pick some, you know, whatever, and I picked acting I was the star in the play and I loved it, and I loved being on stage I remember I said to someone, "This is what I wanna do for my life I love this " And they said, "Oh gosh, you can't do that Only like 0 01% of the people actually make it That's terrible No, you don't wanna do that." And I was like, "Oh, okay. I guess I can't do that." And so I

Photocredit:HeatherMonahan’sLinkedIn

accepted someone else's self-limiting beliefs, you know, at 10 years old and forgot about it Completely forgot about it. The irony is now I literally get on stages that are massive in front of hundreds of thousands of people or virtually in front of a million people to impact other people's lives and bring a message forward. It's so similar to what I loved when I was a little kid. I don't think that's ironic. Always think about what you loved as a child, because it's a hint as to what you should be doing now I love the opportunity to impact others spread a positive message in an oftentimes very negative world and pull back the curtain on what's real Too often, myself included, when I was growing up, people would tell me, "Oh, you can't make it to the C-suite. Oh, you can't be the boss. Oh, you can't, you don't, you're not a white man in a pants suit, you know, with glasses, with gray hair." And I remember being frustrated by that, like, "Who said? Who are you to tell me what I can be or not be?" And

what I’ve found over the last couple of decades is that any time I pull back that curtain and get to the next level even though it started back in my early 20s when I became an equity partner I started realizing it’s all hard work. It’s putting your expertise, leaning into the things you're great at and then hiring for the things you're not, building a team, building positive culture, creating clear goals, chasing them down together, having fun, doing good, giving back, involving charities None of this stuff was brain surgery, it was just so few people did it or did it well

And, you know, kind of figuring that out, I like sharing that with others that, "Hey, if you grew up a certain way like I did and thought, 'Oh, there's a lot of shame around this,' you know, 'I'm not gonna be good enough to do these things, other people can...'" No, that's not true. The biggest example for me was when I pitched myself to land a board seat with that company, that I was actually terminated from, for years. I knew I warranted it, I knew I deserved it, and I got the runaround all the time "Oh, no not now, maybe in the future ” Cut to, I end up getting fired, and within two years I landed my first paid board seat, and I've been with that company since Sometimes you just figure out, “Oh, I'm in the wrong place It's not me ” And that's the message that I like to bring forward to people. You might be surrounded by villains. You might be a fish climbing a tree instead of a fish swimming in the water. Let's get you to the water and see what you can do. Let's get you around those right people, and let you unleash and go for all that you're meant to do. Big stages gave me that chance

WATCH THIS NEXT PART!

This is our fearless issue. Tell us how you see and handle fear.

Tune in to Scott and Heather’s conversation about this question here:

James Dumoulin has created a media juggernaut with his School of Hard Knockz Interviews, and he's interviewed everyone from Tom Cruise, Will Smith, Charlie Sheen, Tom Brady, to Shaquille O'Neal, and many more. Those videos get several million views. He interviewed you, and that video is at almost 60 million views. Why do you think it's gone so viral?

Heather: Wait, he'll be the first one to tell you, when I say stuff like that to him, he'll say “No, that's just on Instagram.” If you add in TikTok views, it's well over 100-

something million. I mean, it's insane how well that video did. It's the number two best-performing video he's ever done on his School of Hard Knockz, which is crazy I think there's a few reasons So number one, he said to me before he started filming, "I just have a feeling " He was seeding me, and this the power of seeding, it’s so important whenever you're selling someone on something He started seeding me He said, "I just have a feeling this thing is gonna go viral and we're gonna have like 10 million views." So I got curious and I asked, "What can I do, or what tip can you give me about what goes viral?" And he said, "Heather, no one's ever asked me that that I've interviewed." And I said, "Well, I'm curious." Like, I was asking for the coaching, and I guess most people that he interviews, they just don't ask And so he said, "The one piece of advice I would give anyone about a viral video is to look direct to camera " Now Scott, if you go to his page now and see how many people actually look direct to camera, there's only a few, right? So now, he's given me an edge. I knew that... And I love a challenge. So he's kind of put it

Photocredit:HeatherMonahan’sFacebook

out there, he's seeded me with, "This could go viral I think it will" I took it as a challenge, like, "This thing is going viral Let's go" I started getting hyped I was so excited And I went direct to camera He doesn't have a lot of women on his page We were talking about sales leadership, faith, and mind movies, which a lot of women are not talking about. So it was unique. There was value there. I was teaching people. I was super excited, and I was direct to camera. And you know, the rest is history.

You're a giant slayer. Your book trumped Trump back in the day, and now you've surpassed Tom Cruise and Tom Brady and the rest. You have a phenomenal podcast, one of the top podcasts out there, Creating Confidence. Who are the most interesting people that you've interviewed, and why?

Heather: One of my most favorite interviews is the one you got me, which is Jesse Itzler, who is on the cover of one of your favorite covers, one of my favorite

covers of Outlier Magazine Here's why: He has such a real, unique approach, and he's got all the stories to back it up Like, I love his story of how he wanted to get to people who had a lot of money because he wanted to get his jet company up and running, but he didn't know how to get there So he flies out to a TED event, doesn't have a ticket, doesn't know what he's gonna do. He's a big fan of putting yourself in the arena of where you want to be, to know the people that are going to help you get to that next level. He told me the story on the podcast all about how he bought out all the bagels and muffins from the Starbucks next door because he saw people were flooding in there, and that was where he could get to the people because he didn't have a ticket to get in And ultimately, his first client came out of that opportunity when he saw a guy go in there asking if he could buy muffins and bagels, and they said, "We're sold out" He stopped them and said, "Hey, I have some I'm happy to sell them to you," and walked outside, and that led to a conversation where he signed his first client for Marquis Jets. I love that idea that resourcefulness is so important, leaning into your personality, taking risks, going for it, and figuring it out along the way. So, he's got plenty of stories like that.

Who have you not interviewed yet that's on your bucket list?

Heather: I think I would love to interview a few different people I'd love to interview Kanye West and find out what's going on in his mind because I think it's so interesting I would love to interview Kim Kardashian or Kylie Jenner and learn, ask the real questions behind their business success because it's massive, right? And people on the

outside want to attribute it to how they look or, you know, a sex movie or sex tape or whatever it was But I also am curious what's the framework behind it too? I don't think that gets spoken about a lot , and I'd love to uncover that a little bit more. Of course, I'd love to interview Oprah, right? That would be incredible. There are a lot of people that I need to put on my list and start chasing down.

So let's talk a little bit more about the love of your life, your son Dylan. He's doing a TED Talk. He's 18 years old. He's a very talented athlete. What do you hope for his future?

Heather: I hope he continues his journey with his faith and continues to strengthen his faith and move forward in being a good human. He is so calm, so good, so opposite of me. He's just, you know, very even keeled. He doesn't react to things the way that I do. He doesn't stress out about things the way that I do I love that for him I hope he continues to

pursue his life's work, his passion, and never settles for less than what he wants He is literally I mean, I'm so blessed with the greatest kid. I'll never understand how it came to be. He definitely, without a doubt, is the biggest blessing in my life and the biggest teacher in my life too. He's taught me so much about faith. He's taught me so much about resilience. He's taught me so much about never giving up, about taking what other people say about you and tossing it out the window and moving forward with confidence He's the best example and I'm blessed every day to live with him

Let's address the elephant in the room. Physical appearance is, in many cases, the first impression. Being attractive can be a doubleedged sword. So for example, you have 395 incredible reviews of your

Photocredit:HeatherMonahan’sInstagram

Photocredit:HeatherMonahan’sFacebook

“We believe anyone can be ordinary, but we all have the power to choose to be extraordinary.”

- Scott MacGregor

first book, but one person gave you a three-star review because they said they had trouble believing someone with quote, "movie star good looks" could have low selfconfidence or esteem. What's your reaction and how has your appearance been a positive and negative force in your life?

Heather: I mean, are you joking me? Has this person... tell this person to come to Miami and walk around. I live in the most beautiful people city in the world. 90% of these people are so insecure, it's appalling We all see these guys rolling up hot AF in their Lamborghini that they rented, trying to get girls to look at them because they're desperate for attention because they feel empty inside, right? That's insecurity A really secure person doesn't need all of that, right? A really secure person's gonna roll up in their

Prius or whatever it is and not really care what somebody else thinks because they know we be rocking it however we're rolling it So that, gosh, go back to sleep, buddy Whoever wrote that, poor thing Or get out more and start seeing what's happening in the real world. It is 100% true that my confidence has dipped and been at all time lows and non-existent at various times in my life. When I got cheated on when I was in my early 20s, my confidence went out the window. When I started as an equity partner at Saginaw didn't know if I even warranted being there Impostor syndrome had me questioning, "What am I doing?" And, "I don't know that I belong here, and will anyone ever respect me? Do I even warrant it or deserve it?" When I got divorced, when I got fired, when all these external things would happen to me because I had been giving my power and my confidence to external things to begin with…at times I did give

confidence to how I looked. It's funny, I had a coaching call with someone yesterday. She's in her 40s, and she's like, "Heather, for so long I gave my power to how I looked and my confidence came from how I looked, that now that I don't look as good" because you just get older, right? It changes She's like, "Now my confidence is just so much lower, and I can't get it back " It's an interesting thing I was giving my confidence to my job title I was getting my confidence as a result of my team, my car, my house, all these external factors: my kids' grades, my kids' looks, my kids' scores. All those things can be taken from you. They can disappear in a moment. And so what I've learned is to start giving it to who you inherently are, the things people can't take from you. Like your expertise, your good heart, your good nature, the good deeds you do for other people, the message you bring forth The things no one can take from you, when you start leaning into that, that's who you truly are, the essence of you and rocking that, then it doesn't matter as much if you didn't get your hair done, or it's an off day or, you know, some mistake happened. That's okay 'cause

you know what? I'm a great person and I'm gonna bounce back from that and I'm gonna be okay. And the more you start leaning into that, you can really show up as a confident version of you. That doesn't mean that your confidence won't dip again at different times. It will, and what I've learned is that's normal, that's natural, it's part of growth, and I'm proud of it when it happens When I start getting that nervous feeling, I'm like, "Okay, we're about to go again We're going to the next level " Like, "Let's do it I have to work on my confidence again I have to bring it back I have to remind myself why I'm good enough for this, and why I need to step out of my comfort zone and move into uncertainty and start growing and growing again." So to me it's more like a cycle.

You’ve been on Steve Harvey, you've been on Dr. Phil, you've done a bunch of TV. Do you enjoy doing those?

Heather: Oh my gosh, yeah. It's super fun. The Steve Harvey one was a big confidence questioning moment I'll never forget. Leading into that interview, they had done a Zoom interview with

Photocredit:https://heathermonahancom

Photocredit:HeatherMonahan’sLinkedIn

just me to interview me ahead of time They ask you some of the questions they are going to ask you on the show You don't know it And I answer how I answer it, right? Like, I'm just gonna answer as me, Heather Monahan, and I'm going to give you my opinion. So I did, and at the end the lady said, "I'd like to move forward." She was the producer. She's like, "I'd like to move forward and have you on the show. But I want to be honest with you, Heather. The other people we have on the show feel 100% different than you do " I'm like, "Good for them " Like, "That's great I'm hyped for them " We should live in a world where people are allowed to believe what they want and think what they want She's like, "Are you sure you're going to be strong enough to own your opinion when everybody else thinks the opposite of you?" I said, "Yeah, this is, like, what I do. This is me." Of course when you're

actually in it, it's a little different, right? Everybody there knew each other. Everybody there had worked together before. I was the odd guy out. So not only was I the odd guy out from my perspective, my opinion, and that I didn't agree with everyone.... I was the odd guy out 'cause I wasn't part of the crew, the team. They were all hyped and hugging and like, "Oh, hi," to Heather over there. So I started getting a little nervous and I just had to remind myself again, "You know what? I'm just gonna show up as that real version of me Love it or hate it, you know the underdog's on top " I just have to be me The only way I can really be an imposter is if I don't show up as me So I'd rather go out and bring my opinion forward. If everyone hates it, great. I'm still a good person, I'm still me. At least I rep for me and that's gonna build confidence in me. And I'll never forget, I was out on that stage and Steve Harvey said, "Okay, let's talk about revenge cheating." All of the ladies were like, "Yes, revenge cheat. That's the way to go Payback's a bitch, blah, blah, blah " And it got to me and I said, "I totally disagree with you I would never give away one of the most special things that I could do with another human being to revenge-hurt somebody The only person that's actually hurting is you And at the end of the day, I want to do things that are taking good care of me, not hurting myself, especially if my feelings are hurt or from heartbreak." And the crowd went wild. And it was so interesting because in my mind, I'm like, "Heather, just be prepared, everyone's gonna be throwing hate at you, you know, whatever." But no. It was the opposite. The whole crew there was part of the team. They all agreed, but the audience really rallied around my opinion and liked that a different opinion was brought forth

You have accomplished so much, but you have incredible ambition. What are some of the mountains you'd still like to climb?

Heather: You know this, but I'll share it for those who don't. I, from the jump, have wanted Confidence Creator to be made into a movie with Reese Witherspoon starring in it Like that has for sure got to happen I have met with so many TV entities and channels Netflix talking about bringing forward a show where we're working with women to elevate women; to show how they can go from a low confidence level to high, and what that journey looks like, what the success can look like, what the home life can look like taking people through... essentially bringing TV forward that's about doing good and entertaining, for sure, but also helping other people. That has not happened yet.

I'm always open-minded to different

collabs and partnerships and bringing other products forward that help people and help this girl make money There's so much more that's going to happen that I'm so excited about But I also know, when I used to be in corporate America, everything was very finite and controlled and the corridors were well-lit, right? Like, I knew what was happening

Q4's coming, the budgeting process, and... what I love about how I've changed is I'm super open to, "I have no idea what's coming." I might find out about this huge opportunity that I never thought about, and I'm just going to go for it. It doesn't have to be the world according to Heather Monahan and here's my next five-year plan BS, right? I'm just going to embrace that overarching strategy of, "I want to do good in the world I want to bring my message forward I want to impact millions of people And I want to make a lot of money while I'm doing it " And I don't know exactly how that's gonna look, but I can't wait to find out.

Last question, what does being an outlier mean to you?

Heather: Oh my gosh. To be an outlier is to not be vanilla. When people say, "You're not my cup of tea," of course I'm not your cup of tea. I'm a glass of champagne, baby. So to be an outlier is to have that contrarian opinion and not be concerned about what other people think about it, because I'm just doing me. You should do you, whatever that is. I love the idea of being an outlier. General and basic is so boring. And I wasn't put on this earth to be boring. I wasn't put on this earth to be basic or to do what other people tell me to do. I was put here to be an outlier and show people what's possible.

FUELFOR YOUR OUTLIER MINDSET

HAND-SELECTED NUGGETS FOR YOUR NOGGIN

DO IT SCARED RUTH SOUKUP

“This is a must-read reminder that courage isn’t the absence of fear, it’s action in spite of it. With raw honesty and practical strategies, Ruth shows how fear can become fuel for growth, purpose, and bold living, which is perfectly aligned with our issue’s theme

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MY FIRST MILLION SHAAN PURI AND SAM PARR

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CONFIDENCE CREATOR HEATHER MONAHAN

“Heather Monahan’s Confidence Creator doesn’t promise fearlessness, instead, it teaches you how to lean into uncertainty, stand firmer in your choices, and act anyway. Perfect for outliers who don’t wait for permission or zero risk just courage ”

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THESPACEBETWEEN

TWO KINDS OF FEAR. ONE KIND OF COURAGE.

By: Michelle “MACE” Curran

“Living fearlessly doesn’t mean living without fear. It means meeting fear with composure and moving forward anyway.”

-Michelle “MACE” Curran

The mask sealed against my face like a plunger. Tight. Restrictive Suffocating My classmates looked calm, but my body was screaming that I couldn’t breathe

We sat shoulder to shoulder inside a metal chamber about the size of a city bus: an unremarkable space designed to simulate high altitude, low oxygen conditions. For the Air Force, it was a routine step in pilot training. For me, it was the moment I met fear head-on.

The goal was simple: experience oxygen deprivation in a controlled environment so we’d recognize the symptoms later in flight But I didn’t need hypoxia to feel panic Long before we reached altitude, a wave of

claustrophobia hit. Every inhale felt inadequate. Every exhale felt trapped behind the mask clamped to my skin

I scanned the eyes of my classmates: calm, steady, unbothered Meanwhile, I was fighting the urge to rip the mask off my face and bolt for the door. The fear wasn’t logical, but it was loud. My body was convinced I was suffocating. My mind knew I was fine.

That tension between the imagined and the rational is the battlefield where fear lives I’d spent years working toward this dream of becoming a fighter pilot, and I wasn’t about to let panic during routine training be the reason I didn’t make it. So I stayed

seated on that bench, focused on my breathing, and reminded myself I was still in control And slowly, the noise quieted

In that silence, I realized something subtle but lifechanging: fear wasn’t the enemy It was information It was my brain’s way of saying, this matters. That awareness didn’t erase the fear, but it gave me power over it.

That day I learned something that would serve me in combat, as an entrepreneur, and in life:

Fear is simply a signal our brain sends when it meets the uncomfortable, the uncertain, or the unknown. What matters isn’t the signal, it’s how you respond.

Fear is ancient It kept our ancestors alive when a rustle in the bushes could mean a tiger. But that same wiring can work against us now, convincing us to retreat when we’re only uncomfortable, not unsafe. Most of us aren’t dodging predators anymore We’re dodging discomfort, uncertainty, and the unknown Our bodies don’t know the difference The same physiology that prepared our ancestors to run or fight now flares up when we’re about to give a speech, start

a business, or have a hard conversation. The heart rate spikes. The mouth goes dry. The brain tells a story: You’re in danger.

But we usually aren’t. Sometimes we just need to be reminded of that.

That day in the altitude chamber, my fear was theoretical It was my mind creating danger where none existed Years later, I would come face to face with fear again, only this time, the danger was very real.

It happened over the forests of Colombia I was flying more than 400 miles per hour as the Opposing Solo for the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a black flash, heard a thud, and felt the jet shudder.

A bird strike And not a small one

The cockpit went quiet Time slowed My eyes darted across the instruments, waiting to see if the engine would roll back My heart rate spiked. My mouth went dry. My body flooded with

Photocredit:Michelle MACE CurransLinkedIn

adrenaline.

But beneath that surge was something steadier, a calm I’d earned through years of training, through every uncomfortable moment I’d ever stayed present for I had rehearsed emergencies I’d planned for worst-case scenarios. I’d learned to make decisions before emotion had a chance to interfere. And because I’d done the work, my composure overtook my panic.

The pause between the stimulus, a six-foot wide black vulture colliding with my jet, and my response became my solace It was the space where all my preparation lived The place where I reclaimed my power from the unexpected.

I maintained aircraft control, analyzed the situation, and made the best call with the information I had. The engine kept running. The jet stayed airborne. I landed safely The next day, I was back in the sky, same airshow, same birds, same risk

Fear was there too But it wasn’t in charge

When people ask me about fear now, I don’t think first about the altitude chamber

or that bird strike. Those moments were fleeting and rare, when the danger felt tangible The fear I wrestled with more often was quieter The fear of failing, disappointing others, or falling short of my own expectations The kind that doesn’t make headlines but still holds people back every day.

Fear of judgment. Fear of change. Fear of what might happen if we step fully into what we’re capable of.

What those experiences taught me is that living fearlessly doesn’t mean living without fear It means you’ve done the work to stack the odds in your favor You’ve prepared You’ve

trained. You’ve strengthened your response Because courage isn’t the absence of fear It’s the ability to meet it with composure To feel it, name it, and move forward anyway

You don’t need to fly fighter jets to feel that surge of fear. It shows up in boardrooms, in relationships, and in those quiet moments before you take a leap. The setting changes, but the question doesn’t: will fear run the show, or will you?

When so much in life is outside our control, realizing that your response is yours alone? That might just be the most empowering lesson I’ve ever learned

Kiley McKinnon

Black

Kofi Douhadji

‘emout(liers)...

Meet the dreamers, the doers, and the visionaries who are living proof that the most extraordinary lives are often built on the foundations of the unconventional. Support these four incredible outliers who are redefining what it means to truly live an outlier life.

Caitlyn Kumi

MaryKatherine

earing

lesstogether.

“Find out what you’re afraid of and go live there.”

“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”

DALE CARNEGIE “Do one thing every day that scares you.”

ELEANOR ROOSEVELT

Courage is never to let your actions be influenced by your fears.

ARTHUR KOESTLER

“The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.”

THUCYDIDES

CHUCK PALAHNIUK

Photocredit:DanielDurand

MATTHIAS GIRAUD MATTHIAS GIRAUD

Super Frenchie®, Professional Skier and BASE jumper, 2 x World Record Holder

Matthias,whenandwhydid peoplestartcallingyouSuper Frenchie?Whatdoyour friendscallyou?

It'sactuallyastorythatIjustwrote aboutformybook.It'sanickname thatcameupinColoradowhenI wenttoschoolthere.Imovedfrom theAlpstoDurango,Coloradoin January2004soIcouldstudy businesstoearnadegree,ski,and createmylife

ThreeweeksafterImovedthere,Idid myfirstphotoshootandthenthere wasabigaircontest.Iwasn’tmuchof aparkskier,butIentereditbecause allthelocalfriendsthatIjustmade

atthetimeweredoingreally technicaltricks,butIfocusedon goingbiganddoingsomeclean tricks,whichendedupbeingbetter thanadudetryingsomethinghard andnotlandingit.

Iwasdroppinginforarunandthere wasaFrenchexchangestudentwho hadjustmadeamakeshiftFrench flag,tieditaroundmyneckandit lookedlikeacape,you know?

AndIthought,“Damn,thisis awesome Well,asupermanfrontflip isinorder”,soIjustdroppedingoing fastanddidabigsupermanfrontflip fullylaidoutoverthecrowdand thenItuckedin,landedperfectand peoplescreamed Theythoughtit wascool.

Igrabbedthetowropebehindthe snowmobiletogetbackupandgo foranotherrun That’swhenthe announcerwent“andladiesand gentlemen,herecomesnumber73, SuperFrenchie.”Thecrowdwent nuts IdidanotherSuperman Frontflip,wentevenbigger,stomped itandIgotthirdatthecomp.Since then,thenicknamestuckandit endedupbeingmyindustryand mainstreamname

Mostpeoplecan’tsayMatthias Giraud,myFrenchname.Even thoughIAmericanized

the pronunciation, Super Frenchie is easier to remember so I think that’s why it stuck

WATCH THIS NEXT PART!

Not many people are pioneers, and not many people wind up on 60 Minutes and Good Morning America. What first inspired you to combine skiing with BASE jumping, and how did you develop the skills to become a twotime world record holder in such an extreme sport?

Tune in to Scott and Matthias’ conversation about this question here:

ThisisourFearlessissue,andI thinkoutliershavethattrait incommon,butIthinkof fearlessnessastheabilityto bescaredbutdothings anyway,ratherthanthe absenceoffear.What'syour take?

Yeah,here'smytake.I’mthemost fearfulpersonyou’llevermeetinyour life.Iamafraidofeverything.I overthinkeverything.I’mnaturallyan anxiousperson.I’vejustdoneeithera reallygoodjobathidingitorbeing seeminglycarefree WhenIfilmed with60MinuteswithSharynAlfonsi, shementionedthatatfirstitlooked likeI’mjustwingingitbutthenone day,wewerefilmingandIpacked myparachuteinfrontofher After shewitnessedthewholeprocess,we

s answering a few questions, she looked down on my right and said, grinning, “That tells me everything.” I didn’t realize but as we were talking, I had lined up my clamps perfect in order, from big to small – textbook OCD move. I think jumping has been a tool of pragmatism and a way to channel my anxiety.

When I approach a jump, I am hugely anxious and overthink a ton. You can probably already tell because I talk a lot and overexplain. But it actually helps me to be OCD. It makes me not just double-check, but triple or even quadruple-check before I jump. But when it is time to jump, the overthinking stops and the liberation takes place.

A perfectionist will always live in a difficult state because perfection can never truly be achieved. But being a perfectionist helps you reach the highest level you can as a person Through jumping, I recurringly get to experience the highest state of

being. Fear has become a catalyst for perfection (or attempting to reach perfection).

I spend a lot of time visualizing - one of the key things in whatever you want to achieve in life, whether it’s business or a physical feat, or art We always hear about iteration. Iteration is not just mere repetition; it’s also visualization and assimilation. Repetition is very crucial, but it is not everything. It must be part of a broader process.

This is how something becomes automatic and instinctual We don't rise to our level of training; we fall back to our level of training. So that's the thing. I don’t have any natural talent I repeat all the time over and over again

I was a very poor skier to begin with and I only skied on holidays. But I was just obsessed, passionate and repetitive. I just did it over and over and over again. It was truly the 10,000-hour rule. But that 10,000hour rule is not just physical When I’m home, I always align my conscious and my subconscious. I Canyoudescribethefeeling youexperiencebefore completingaskiBASEjump, andhowdoyoumentally prepareforsuchhigh-stakes moments?

Photo credit: Matthias Giraud’s Facebook

Somepeoplemaycriticizethatby saying“Ah,takesometimefor yourself.Kickbackandrelax.”Sure,it isimportanttotakeabreak.I’mable towatchamovieandspendtime withmysonandmywifebutinthe backofmymind,Ineverforget aboutmygoals.Theyarealways thereintheshadows.

Igotobedwithadream,andIwake upwithaplan There’sthisdigestion thatishappeningallthetime,buton apracticallevel,I’mconstantly visualizing,iteratingthosejumpsand thosepatternsinmyhead.

WhenI’mgoingtodoafirstskiBASE jump,ordosomethingIhavenever triedbefore,Iamoftenabletodoit becauseI’vepreparedmyselffor actionbylivingthatmomentso muchinmyhead,andallthe potentialcasescenarios,thatIarrive ready.It’skindalikechairflyingfor fighterpilotswhentheysitalonein thedarkandpretendtoflytheir

aircraft,rehearsingtheirflight patternsandemergencyprocedures. Idothatalot.Imightbeinmyliving roomordoingthedishes,butIam preparinginmyheadbyvisualizing, thinking,elaboratingallthewaysto getthere.Andso,whenyouspend eight,nine,tenyearsthinkingabout aprojecteveryday,well,whenyou showup,you’remostlikelygoingto beready.

Whatagreatanswer.You've talkedveryopenlyaboutyour sisterBibi'simpactonyour life.Canyousharewithour readershowherpassing changedyourperspective?

Igrewupwiththreeoldersisters,and Bibiandhertwinweremymiddle sisters,nineyearsolderthanme She committedsuicidewhenIwas27.I was18atthetime,andthat happenedjustafewmonthsafter myfirstseason-endinginjurywhenI blewmykneewithafullACLtear, brokentibiaplateauandmeniscus.It wasoneofthoseshittyyearswhen everythinghappensoneafter another.Idestroyedmyknee,my doggothitbyacar,Iwasbarely passingmyfirstyearsinbusiness schoolasaresultandthatsummer, thebiggest,mosthorribletraumatic thingofallhappened,Bibikilled herself Iwastheonlykidathomewhenmy

parentsgotthecall.Myfather couldn’thandlethenewsandwent straighttowork.Mymothercouldn’t doanythingeither,soIcalledthe cops,bookedtheappointmentat themortuary,bookedtrainticketsto gotoParisandidentifythebody,but Ialsohadtogivethenewstomy sisters.There’snothingworsethan beingthemessenger 18yearsold boom…endofchildhood.

Butintheend,whileitwas extremelydifficultandtookme about10yearstodigest,itwasa hugeadvantagetolearntohandle painandadversity.Irecentlyturned 42yearsold,andIhavebeenBASE jumpingforalmost20yearsnow, skiingfor40years,andlostalotof friendsalongtheway…especiallyat thishalfwaypointinmylife.Forty yearsoldiswhenpeoplestartdying aroundyou–accidents,health issues You’vebeenaroundlong enoughtohavebeenexposedto tragedy,repeatedly.

Iseealotofpeoplewhocan’thandle mortalitybecausetheyhavenever beenexposedtoit.Whilevery traumatic,beingexposedtoitearly wasextremelyempowering.Idon’t knowifitisaleanedabilityora naturalcapacitytosomehow reframecognitively,buthittingwhat feltlikerockbottomatthetime morphedintoanendlesssourceof inspirationtoreachtheultimatein life Undeniably,theeffectof

mementomori.

Wealsogrewupinavery challenginghousehold.Ihaven’t talkedaboutitmuchbecauseittook meawhiletounderstandanddigest, butwewereraisedbyan emotionallyandmentallyabusive mother.Ihadaprivilegedpositionas theyoungestoneandtheonlyboy. Mymotherputmeonapedestal,but Iwasneverthelessherobjectofselfprojection,whichcamewithitsown oppression.Butmymiddlesisters reallytookthebruntofherabuse. Shewasrelentlesswhenthem, whichcreatedsuchanunpredictable environmentthatittaughtmeto alwayspreparefortheworst-case scenario.Ilearnedtochannelanxiety intoassiduouspreparation.

WhenBibidied,Iwasforcedtoface

thefactsandthought,“Wow,she didn’thavethatonethingtolivefor thatwhythatissoimportantthat anystrugglecanbehandled."As Nietzschesaid,"Hewhohasawhyto liveforcanbearalmostanyhow."

Ialreadyhadeverythinginplaceasa skier.IwantedtoskiBASEjump.I wantedtosurfbigwaves These goalsmayseemtrivialtosome,but forme,theyrepresentedsomething beyondstruggle awaytomove pastsuffering.

Itwaslikerealizingthatshedidn’t havewhatIhave:thechancetolive it.

QueensoftheStoneAgecapturedit perfectlyintheirsong“Gowiththe Flow”:“Iwantsomethinggoodtodie for,tomakeitbeautifultolive.”

ButIdidn’tneedtowantsomething Ialreadyhadit Itwastimeto makeithappen.Thetimewasnow. ThedayIwalkedbackfromher funeralisthedayIsignedapactwith myselftocommittomygoals,no matterhowdangerous

Thankyouforsharingthat.In 2012youhadanearfatal accidentonMontBlanc.Did thatchangeyourperspective onriskanddanger?Andhas yourperspectivecontinuedto evolve?

Yeah,ofcourse Thecrashwasin 2013.March27th,2013.Ifyoubreak myevolutiondown,IstartedBASE jumpinginOctober2007.Myfirstski BASEjumpwasFebruary2008 In 2011,mycareertookoffwhenIgot thefirstGoProviralvideo,escaping anavalanchewhileBASEjumping offa600ftcliff.

Justbeforethat,IskiBASEjumped offtheEigerin2010.In2011,Ididthe Matterhorn.Soallthesethings happenedvery,veryquickly.Sure,I’d beenskiingforalongtimeandwas alreadyaproskier Butifyouthink aboutit,February2008toMarch 2013,that’sonlyfiveyears.

Sowithin5yearsofskiBASE jumping,Iwastakingonreally technicaljumps,andIfocusedonski BASEjumpingfromthesummitof MontBlanc,myhomemountain.

ButtopracticecompletingtheAlps Trilogy,theEiger,theMatterhorn, andMontBlanc,Idecidedtodoa jumpoffPointed’Areu,rightinfront ofMontBlancintheAravismountain range

AreuwasperfectpracticeforMont Blanc,withhalftheclimbandhalf thealtitudeofmygoal,butallthe samegearmanagement.Mont Blancwouldonlydoubletheprocess, withatwo-dayclimbinsteadofone.

Inthemeantime,Iwasthrustonto theworldstageearlyinmycareer andbecamemainstreamvery quickly.Ihadn’ttakenthetimeto fullydigestthedevelopmental stagesofskiBASEjumping. Technically,Iwasdoingalltheright things Iwasareallygoodskierand reallygoodBASEjumper,butthat wasn’tenough.WhatIhadn’tnailed wasthementalandemotionalsides ofskiBASEjumping,whichtakea longtime

IrecentlystayedwithmyfriendAlex, whoisaguideintheAlps.Wedo almostallmybigprojectstogether. HissonisontheEuroCupformogul skiing,andhehiredamentalcoach tohelphimperformbetteronthe circuit.IwishIhadthatwhenIwas younger.Theotherday,Iwas packingmyparachuteattheir house,gettingreadytogoona wingsuitjump.Icouldhearthe conversationwithhiscoach,andall thepointershiscoachwasgiving himalignedwithmycurrent approachandmethodology,butit tookme20yearstodevelopthese tools.Hissonstartedworkingwith himforsixmonths,andheisalready benefittingfrombettermental

Photocredit:MatthiasGiraud’sFacebook

alignment.That’samazing.

WhenIattemptedtoskiBASEjump AreutotrainforMontBlanc,Ihad thebiggestcrashofmycareer.I spentthreedaysinacoma,suffered adoublebrainhemorrhageanda doublefractureonmyleftfemur Andtotopitalloff,itwasthree weeksbeforethebirthofmyson. Theworstpossibleoutcomeatthe worstpossibletime

Anexperiencelikethatmakesyou questioneverything:whatyoudo, whetheryoushouldkeepdoingit, andhow WhenIwokeupinthe hospital,Iwasstillalittlefoggyfora coupledaysandbrieflyconsidered stopping.AndthenIrealizedthat whenyoudosomethingas audaciousasskiBASEjumping,you signupforthegood

andyousignupforthebad.You havetoacceptpotentiallybeingthe lastonestanding,andaccept potentiallydyingbythesword.Ifyou don’tacceptthat,youhaveno businessdoingit.Internally,Ihad alreadyacceptedallthisand mydesiretokeepgoingwasstill there.SowhatIneededtodowas reviewmywholeapproachofthe sportandmywayofdoingit.

Ittookthreemonthstostartwalking again,butassoonasIcouldstart walking,Istartedskydivingagain Withinsixmonths,IrestartedBASE jumping.ButIdidvery,verybasic jumps.Ijustdidalotofthem.I wouldgotoabridgeanddo50 jumpsinaweek,anddothesame jumpeverytime.Ihammeredthe basicsagain,torebuildmyself correctly.

Onceinawhile,Iwoulddoaflipbut mostjumps,Ijuststayedflatand stable,openedcleanandnailedmy landing.Itwassimple,tedious repetition.Butitwasn’tjustphysical. Ithelpedmefine-tunemymental approach,andIrealizedthateven thoughIwantedtolive,Ineededto relearntoacceptmymortalityto makethemostofmylife.

Onceyouacceptyourmortality, livingbecomesmandatory.Andhow doyoudothat?Bystreamliningyour wholeapproachandmethodology. DoingsohelpedmeanalyzewhatI

didwrongwhenIcrashedbefore It forcedmetoimprove.

Mostimportantly,Ineededto understandallthedifferentstagesof commitmentsoIwouldn’thavea burnout,‘causeIfeltthatifIdidthis longenough,thepressurewould eventuallybecomeunbearable.Alot ofathletesouttherelikeKent Kreitlerquitbecauseofnotbeing abletohandlethepressureanymore, andespeciallyinactionsports.I neverwanttoquitbecauseIcan’t handleitanymore.Iwanttoquit simplywhenIdon’thavethe desireanymore.

Ineededtorethinkandbreakdown everythingtokeepgoing,whichis whyIamwritingabookrightnow I’vehadtheprivilegeofdeep introspectionforsolongthatthe conceptsthatemergedwill,Ihope, helpandempowerotherstolivethe mostpotentlifetheycan

Isthatwhatyouhopethat audiencestakeaway, whetherit'syourTEDTalk,or yourdocumentary,Super Frenchie,oranyoftheother filmprojectsthatyouwork on?Whatdoyouhopethat audiencestakeawayfrom those?

Ihopetheycangetanelementof clarityinthechaosoflife,because that'sthestrengthI'vedevelopedfor myself,andthat'sthestrengthIwant tobeabletopasson

Findingclaritynomatterwhat, findingserenityinuncertainty...I thinkthesekindofsoundlikecliché words,buttheonethingthatI learnedfromthemountainsis conditionsarewhattheyare,not whatyouwantthemtobe.Youhave tobeabletoapproachthemwith composureandbepoised

I'maprettyexplosive,exuberantguy, butasidefromoverthinking,I'm prettycalm.Ihavetheability,when myheartrategoesupinan emergencyorintensesituation,to getitbackdownveryquickly.

Youbecomeawarmachineinaway. Nottryingtodestroyothers,butyou canhandleahighlevelofpressure andphysicalthreatwithaverycool headwhenyouhavenoother choices,becausewhenthingsgetso

demanding,sotreacherous,calmis mandatory.That'swhatI'mtryingto passon.

Whichjumporadventurehas beenthemostmeaningfulto you?

Iwouldsaythefirstski-BASEjump fromthetopofMontBlancwasvery, verypowerfulatthetimebecauseit wasmyhomemountain.IhaveMont Blanctattooedacrossmyback.It's thereferenceforme,theteacherof loveandrespect Butsincethen,the highestprojectonmyscaleof engagementwastheAiguille BlanchedePeuterey,apeakonthe ItaliansideofMontBlanc.

It'soneofthemostchallenging placestoski.It’sbeenskiedmaybe byonly10or15peopleever.It’svery steep,60degreesatthetop,then55 and50formostoftheface,before easingtoabout45,thengetting steeperagain.Andthere'sahuge seracinthemiddleofit.Thefirst timeIsawitwaswhilefilmingfora FrenchskimovieontheItalianside ofMontBlancin2012 Isawitinthe distanceandIthought,"OhmyGod, whatisthispeak?"Anditlookedso gnarly,soterrifyingthatIcouldn'tget itoutofmymind

IwassoscaredofitthatIbecame obsessed.Andin2023,11yearslater, aftergettingreadyeveryyear

todoit,theconditionsfinallylined up.Whenafaceisthatsteep,the snowdoesn'talwaysbondtoit Alot ofthetimeit'spureblueice You can'tevengetyouredgesinthere. Skiingitrequireshavingenough snowtoholdontheiceandbe edgeable,butnotsomuchthatthe avalanchedangerbecomestoohigh It'salsoat4,100meters(over14,000 feet),butonthemostprominent pointintheAlps,thereforeit’salways windyupthere It’sveryraretohave nowind,stablesnow,andskiable conditions.Everythinglinedupin 2023,andIwasabletoskiit. Surprisingly,Iwassoscaredthatit wasprobablythecalmestandmost intentionalI’veeverbeen Thatski BASEjumpingdescentwasthe apogeeofmylifeasaskier,with someofmyclosestfriendsthereto filmandensuresafety.

Itwasincrediblybonding,the apogeeofexistence.Ironically,the icewallthatIjumpedoffbrokea yearlater.Itwillneverbejumpable again Wegotitthelasttime possible.WhenIsentthevideoto myskisponsoratthetime,the marketingdirectorsentmeapretty funnymessage:“Wow,youreallyput

yourballsonthetableonthisone. Thatwasastatement."Iresponded, "Well,that'snotwhatIwastryingto dobutIguessitis"Idon'tknowif yourememberwhenLairdHamilton surfedthefirstsuperheavywaveat Teahupo'o.IguessIcan'tdescribe howitfeltbecauseIwasn'tinhis place,butthatwasmyTeahupo'o prettymuchrightthere.Thatvideo cameout,andeventhoughallthe establishedskimountaineerson MontBlancareguyswhoskieven moretechnicalstuff,theyexpressed theirrespect,whichwashumbling. It’sextremelycomfortingtobe acclaimedbyvaluedpeers.Oneof themsaid,"Yeah,dude,thatwaslike amicdrop"That'showitfeltforsure Itwasextremelyfulfilling.

WehaveawordinFrenchcalled épanouissement.There'snodirect translationinEnglishforit There's notawordthatcouldexplainthatin Englishandthat'sgoingtobeabig partofmybooktoo. Épanouissementmeans extremebloomingandfulfillment Thatoneworddescribesthatjump perfectly.Itwasaconfirmationof masterybyreachingthehighest levelofbeing. Beautiful.Whatadvicewould yougivesomebodyaspiringto pushtheboundariesintheir owndiscipline?

Hmm. What advice? Well, there's a motto that I developed for myself which I talk about in the TED Talk. "Success is in the vision, survival is in the details." Ambitious goals are necessary of course, don't get overwhelmed by the details, but pay attention to every one of them. I have friends who died because of a piece of string BASE jumping… a tiny little thread, a tiny little cord

And that's ridiculous... It’s the little things that'll get you. Spend the time to be a fine-tuned machine Spend the time to learn to be human, yet efficient. Feel it all. All your emotions are gonna help you get to where you need to be.

The goal is not to be a hardcore motherfucker. When you're gonna push your craft to the highest level, the goal is to be a serene motherfucker We've all watched Top Gun, right? You have Maverick and Iceman and all that.

But it’s not about being the cool dude. It’s about being like Viper - the old dude who's still flying fighter jets… His composure doesn't mean that he doesn't feel at all or is unfazed by things He's just seen it all, he accepts the conditions and knows how to deal with them. In the end, when taking on something major, we must accept the emotional roller coaster and focus on the details.

Assomeoneconsidereda pioneerinskiBASEjumping, whatdoyouseeasthefuture ofthesport,andhowdoyou hopeyourlegacyinfluences thenextgeneration?

I'mobviouslyfocusingoncombining alotofdisciplinesatthispoint,sinceI climbhigherandhigherandski steeperandsteeperstufftoskiBASE jumpfromit Itbecomesafull multidisciplinaryapproach.So,for me,Ithink,it'shigher,steeper,more technical.

That'sthewayit'sgonnagoforme I'veseenguysinUtah,whohave beenskiBASEjumping,notforlong, butthey'reexpertfreestyleskiersand they'rethrowingsomeamazing tricksinthere

Maybethere’sgoingtobea resurgenceofafreestylekindof approach?

Ithinkit'seitherhigh-altitude,super technicalorsupercreative,beautiful, reallyengagedjumps.Thesearethe twochannelsthatIsee.Asfarasmy legacy,it'sgonnasoundhorriblebutI don'treallygiveafuckabout legacy. Ithinkit'sanoverusedterm.Ithink it'sanimpositionofegoontoothers You'retryingtoleaveamarkso peoplecanrememberyou,whatyou

did,andyournameliveson Who cares?Onceyou'regone,you're gone.Wantingalegacyisan expressionofthefearof disappearingordying.

Everybody'sgonnaforgetyouat somepoint.Alegacyfeelslikean impositiontome.I'mputtingabrick intotheconstructionofthis,and otherpeoplearegoingtoputtheir brickontopofit Atsomepoint, nobodyisgoingtoseeorremember mybrickeventhoughitispartofthe structure.

Andthat'sfine,itdoesn'tmatter becauseformeit'snotaboutlegacy. It'saboutdoingthingsinaccordance withyourself.It'saboutselfcalibrationandethos Areyouliving inaccordancewithyourbeliefsand aspirations?Becauseifyoudothat, positivethingswillemanatefrom that,aslongasyourbeliefsand aspirationsarenotdestructiveto others

As long as they are tools of selfbetterment and fulfillment, while also being there for the people you love, then the bricks will add on. But I'm not trying to leave a monument behind with my name on it

Soprofound.I'mjustcurious, forAlexHonnold,itwasfree soloingElCap.Istherean equivalentofthatinyour sport,ornotreally?

InskiBASEjumping?Whatmeaning doyouseeoutoffreesolo?Whatdid itrepresentforyou?Thatwould helpmedrawamoreaccurateand relevantparallel.

Something that people thought was impossible, that Alex proved was possible. So kind of the Holy Grail, I guess, of climbing. I'm just curious, is there something that you

guys talk about that is at the highest level of ski BASE jumping that almost seems aspirational?

To me, the most aspirational jumps have been done by Jean-Rene Gayvallet, who did the first ski BASE jump off the Eiger, and guys he inspired like Shane McConkey.

Later on, Shane accomplished several firsts, and highly technical ski BASE jumps. Even though he died in 2009 on a jump, he’s still the benchmark for big mountain ski BASE jumping, in my opinion. He did so many gnarly jumps, with superdaring executions like quadruple backflips, wingsuit ski BASE jumps, and a massive double frontflip off the Eiger.

After Shane’s death, JT Holmes pushed a few big mountains ski BASE projects, but he hasn’t been very active since 2013.

Jesse Hall and a few Utah guys still ski BASE jump, but they focus on short inruns. Big lines have become an exception, and firsts are very rarely happening now.

I really hope it doesn’t come across as arrogant... As far as the modern form of ski BASE jumping goes, I have been the only person still pushing big mountain ski BASE jump lines frequently and opening

Mixing alpinism, steep skiing and BASE jumping all at once naturally carves a niche, and creates a privileged position within the sport The first ski BASE jump on Aiguille Blanche de Peuterey, Mont Blanc, Mt Hood, or the Avalanche Cliff Jump from GoPro, to name a few, stand out in the history of ski BASE jumping and I have had the chance to get these done.

But it’s a sport that is still evolving and there are still many firsts to check off the list in the Alps before going to bigger and higher mountains.

Let’s keep writing the story…

Photocredit:MatthiasGiraud’sFacebook

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OUTLIER POWERHOUSES OUTLIER POWERHOUSES

In each issue, we spotlight legendary figures and inspiring outliers who have been recent guests in The Outlier Project. Get ready for thought-provoking quotes that will ignite your spirit

In each issue, we spotlight legendary figures and inspiring outliers who have been recent guests in The Outlier Project Get ready for thought-provoking quotes that will ignite your spirit.

MITAMALLICK

Wall Street Journal & USA TODAY Best Selling Author, Thinkers 50 Radar List, Workplace Strategist, LinkedIn Top Voice

"ITHINKWECANONLYGETIT RIGHTBYREALLYJUSTTAKINGA REALLYAUTHENTICAPPROACH, ANDAREALWAYSTALKINGTO OURCUSTOMERS,ANDJUST ALWAYSREALLYCHECKINGIN WITHOURINTUITIONANDBEING LIKE,'ISTHISTRUETOTHE BRAND?'"

RENEEMARINO

International Keynote Speaker, Best-Selling Author, Broadway and Film Performer, Host

“BADBOSSESAREN’T

MEGANKLEIN

"MYBELIEFIS,JUSTSHOWUP. NOMATTERWHAT,SHOWUP FULLYINEVERYTHINGYOU'RE DOING.ANDYOUNEVERKNOW WHERETHATOPPORTUNITY CANLEAD."

PEACE

VALERIE JANE MORRIS-GOODALL APR. 3, 1934 - OCT. 1, 2025 REST IN

"WHAT YOU DO MAKES A DIFFERENCE, AND YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT KIND OF DIFFERENCE YOU WANT TO MAKE."

JANE GOODALL

ICONIC OUTLIER An

“WHY DID I WANT TO BREAK ALL THE RULES?

BECAUSE THE RULES DIDN’T MAKE SENSE, THAT’S WHY.”

MADONNA

MADONNA

Areyouan Outlier? Areyouan Outlier?

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Outlier Magazine Winter 2025

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TABLEOFCONTENTS

OUTLIER

LETTER FROM THE PUBLISHER

SEAN SWARNER with...

lessissue. Howdoyouthinkaboutand managefear?

Q:Whoinspiresyoutokeep pushingboundaries?

What does it mean to you to be an outlier?

WATCH THIS NEXT PART!

What does it mean to you to be an outlier?

WATCH THIS NEXT PART!

FUELFOR YOUR OUTLIER MINDSET

DO IT SCARED RUTH SOUKUP

MY FIRST MILLION SHAAN PURI AND SAM PARR

OM Staff Pick-Kathy

THESPACEBETWEEN

TWO KINDS OF FEAR. ONE KIND OF COURAGE.

Kofi Douhadji

earing

lesstogether.

MATTHIAS GIRAUD MATTHIAS GIRAUD

WATCH THIS NEXT PART!

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MITAMALLICK

RENEEMARINO

MEGANKLEIN

ICONIC OUTLIER An