MESSAGE FROM RIO DE JANEIRO

Ambassador André Driessen (left) and interviewer Hanno N. Ponder (right)

HANNO NICOLAAS PONDER FROM

Ambassador André Driessen: "Brazil is internationally responsible for conservation Amazon."

Last year I had the opportunity to meet the new Dutch Ambassador André Driessen (19790025) at a reception in the residence of Roland Martin, the Dutch Consul General in Rio de Janeiro. André started his BBA studies at Nyenrode in 1979, while I graduated in that year. We missed each other at the time, but we soon exchanged memories of Nyenrode and Dr. E.B.J. Postma. As a result of this contact, the editors asked me to interview André on the topic of climate and energy in Brazil, my new home country. The interview took place on January 25, 2022. It turned out that our man in Rio was well prepared for his mission.

BY HANNO NICOLAAS PONDER - PHOTOS HNP EN NL. AMBASSADE

NP: Brazil seems to be a "mixed bag" when it comes to environmental policy. For example, the country is the world's largest producer of bioenergy (ethanol, biodiesel and biogas), on the other hand, the Amazon Rainforest is continuously being reduced. As a Dutch diplomat, did André receive a climate agenda from The Hague?

AD: "Yes, in my diplomatic mission, climate and sustainability are important issues. We cannot push Brazil aside because we disagree with certain environmental issues. The country is a major player in ecosystems and part of both the problem and the solutions. It's a little harder to work these days with the mindset of the current Bolsonaro administration, but even in the days of previous presidents Lula and Dilma, these issues were sensitive. If you compare today's deforestation with the levels of 20 to 25 years ago, it is much lower. But in recent years, unfortunately, the figures have started to rise sharply again. In order to cooperate, we now often focus on regional players, at the state and municipal level, who do see the benefit of international cooperation. And the interest in this is so great that we have a choice of all kinds of projects."

HNP: After the turn of the century, things seemed to be moving in the right direction for the conservation of the rainforest, half of which is in Brazil. However, since 2018 when Bolsonaro took office, logging has only increased. Does Driessen see this as an international problem?

AD: "The Amazon is ours, according to Brazilians, and the area has a wealth of resources that are not being exploited now and can contribute to the development of the local population. On the other hand, the Amazon is one of the lungs of the world, so it's a discussion you do have to have with Brazil. Brazil, we believe, has a global responsibility to manage and conserve the Amazon. It's a big area of tension. In part, Brazil has to tackle and solve the problem itself, in part we can help, bilaterally, with Europe and through international organizations, with governments and with all kinds of private parties."

HNP: The Bolsonaro government recently cut the budget for environmental monitoring by 24%, while just before that it promised, during an Internet conference of US states (at the initiative of President Joe Biden), to totally eliminate illegal logging of the rainforest by 2030. How does that work diplomatically, did André get permission from The Hague to protest against this?

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AD: "Of course we speak out when there are signals that point to a trend that we find undesirable or that does not correspond to the agreements. We do this at various levels but especially at the European level, with 27 countries we have a strong voice. Together with other countries we support initiatives to combat illegal logging and mining and to stimulate sustainable production chains, such as the Amsterdam Declaration Partnership. From the other side, we talk to Brazilian companies that operate internationally. To continue doing business they need to invest in sustainability, they are very well aware of that.”

HNP: The Netherlands has started to import more food and live animals from Brazil. Is this in line with limiting global CO2 emissions?

AD: "The picture is nuanced. Brazil is a large producer of food products such as soy, meat, corn and sugar cane that lead to deforestation. The Netherlands is a trading country, not to mention a transit country. Globally, however, the growth in demand is mainly in Asia, especially China, where the population has started to consume more protein. We are proud of our status as the world's second largest agricultural producer, but we are also learning our lessons in the Netherlands. We feel a global responsibility in reducing CO2 emissions and solving global problems related to agriculture. We do a lot of certification in relation to deforestation and the origin of products. We need to develop that further. The Netherlands is stimulating the so-called protein transition and we are working hard on that internationally. And NL is good at developing more efficient and productive food systems. Think of all the knowledge and innovation that Wageningen University & Research has."

HNP: The rainforest has to make way mainly for the cultivation of soy, of which the Netherlands is again one of the largest importers. What is Driessen's reaction to this point?

AD: "In Europe, the Netherlands is a major importer and we receive 2.5 to 3% of Brazilian soy. But consider that China buys no less than 60% of the Brazilian soy. Soy remains an important crop, including for use in the feed for the Dutch livestock. The companies that import into the Netherlands all work with soy that is certified to be free of deforestation. Europe is now working on more far-reaching rules so that we will have deforestation-free standards for all products."

HNP: Does the Netherlands have an opinion on the rapidly increasing use of petroleum (+25%) in Brazil during the year before the corona pandemic broke out?

AD: "We don't think this is structural. Because of the drought, the hydropower plants here have recently been able to produce less power and gas and oil-fired thermal power plants have been used. The higher oil production is mainly for export. We must not forget that Brazil produces electricity that is 80% renewable. Their climate challenge is not energy as in Europe, but mainly the preservation of the rainforest and making agriculture sustainable. There are millions of hectares of depleted farmland that are no longer being used and if we can find a way to bring them back into production and increase productivity, we reduce the pressure on the rainforest."

HNP: Brazil is the largest agricultural producer in the world, spearheaded by coffee, soy, sugar cane and livestock. To what extent does the ambassador support European initiatives to give small farmers a "fair share" in the food chain?

AD: "We certainly support projects aimed at improving the payment to these farmers and developing interesting niches in the market. But the question is whether small farmers gain much from this. After all, 1% of farmers produce 80% of these cash crops. The Netherlands sees more opportunities for small farmers in, for example,

Our 'man' in Rio on audience with Brazilian President Bolsonaro.

PONDER VAN VERRE: HANNO NICOLAAS

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fruit and vegetables, where productivity is very low and 20 to 30% of products are lost in harvesting, storage or transport. There is a lot that can be done about this. As the Netherlands, we can provide a great deal of knowledge, expertise and technology for this."

HNP: It is true that four US companies, namely ADM, Bunge, Cargill and LDC, are primarily responsible for the exploitation of the Amazon. So is the Dutch ambassador also pointing out this dual role of the US in Washington?

AD: "The US is also part of the coalition of countries for sustainability. These companies are particularly active in the trade and distribution of these products. Again, we must not forget trade with China, the solution is not only in the West. These companies do not grow crops themselves, but they do have policies to work on sustainability. It is almost impossible to do otherwise and investors demand it.Governments are constantly talking to companies to improve policies on sustainability."

HNP: Brazil is a leader when it comes to sustainable industry (40% of total production). What can we learn from the Brazilians?

AD: "Brazil has invested heavily in the production of ethanol from sugar cane for use as a fuel for cars since the first oil crisis in the 1970s. Almost all cars today are equipped with flexi engines that can switch from gasoline to ethanol. It has already been noted that 80% of the electricity generated is renewable due to the use of hydropower. Of the entire energy consumption, 40-50% is renewable, which is far more than Europe. So this is the result of decades of investment in renewable energy sources."

HNP: The Brazilian coastline has the potential to generate almost 700 GW of offshore wind power. That is 10 times the Dutch estimated production. Is there a golden opportunity here for the combination of Shell and Eneco to export the experiences from the North Sea?

AD: "In Brazil, a lot of wind energy is already generated onshore at various locations. Much of the Brazilian coast has favorable wind conditions and with this, better productivity could be achieved offshore. More than 20 offshore wind farms are in preparation and will be developed over the next few years. The Netherlands can certainly play an important role here, think of the dredging companies and large transport and tugboat operators. We are also very strong in offshore in cranes, floating docks, specialists, technicians and materials. In addition, with all that Brazilian wind energy you can also make green hydrogen, which is important for our own energy transition. We see great opportunities there. The Port of Rotterdam plays a big role here and has a huge infrastructure and network of pipelines, which lead to the rest of Europe and require big investments."

HNP : Last question regarding the Mercosul-EU trade treaty. This was announced with some fanfare in Brazil after the Bolsonaro government took office, but it was clear that the parliaments of the EU countries still had to approve it. So far, little progress has been made. What are the views on this and is it possible to see the treaty realized in the short term? Is the treaty positive for the Netherlands?

AD: "This is a treaty that has been negotiated for 20 years. The Brazilian economy is very closed with many import taxes and restrictions. From this point of view, it makes sense for Brazil that the treaty is approved by the European member states. Also, geopolitically it is positive for Brazil's relationship with Europe and the world. But times have changed and from Europe we want concerns about environment and sustainability to be included in the agreements. Negotiations are now underway on this and we hope that we can reach a renewed agreement. For the Netherlands there are many advantages, think of innovation, technology, transit, storage and distribution facilities, with which we can modernize our economic profile in Brazil. There is still so much to do here for the Netherlands! Never a dull moment, as E.B.J Postma would have said." ♦