1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: CIA Director Stansfield Turner's Testimony (pp. 33-50)
Admiral TURNER. Not about Gottlieb specifically. We have contacted him. Senator KENNEDY. Well, it is amazing to me. I mean, can you understand the difficulty that any of us might have in terms of comprehending that when you develop a whole new series of materials that are on the front page of every newspaper in the country and are on every television, I mean, that means something, but it does not mean nearly as much as the interest that we have in the fact about the testing of unwitting Americans, and every single document that the staff reviews has Mr. Gottlieb's name on it and you come to tell us that we don't have to worry any more, we have these other final facts, and Mr. Gottlieb has not been talked to? Admiral TURNER. Sir, I am not saying that these are in any way the final facts. I am saying these are all the facts we have available. Senator KENNEDY. And you have not talked to the person who was in charge of the program, so what kind of value or what kind of weight can we give it? Admiral TURNER. We are happy to talk to him. I think the issue here again is one of propriety and how to go about this. We have not, I believe, enough new information about Gottlieb's participation here to signal that his interview would be that much more revealing than what was revealed in 1975. Senator KENNEDY. The importance of it, I think, from our point of view, is, he would know the drugs that were administered, the volume of drugs, how it was administered, and in terms of your ability to follow lip to protect these people and their health, to the extent that it can be done, that opportunity is being lost. I want to get on to some others, but will you give us the assurance that you will get ahold of Gottlieb or that you will talk to Attorney General Bell and talk with Gottlieb? Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir. Senator KENNEDY. And let us know as to the extent of it. I don't see how we can fulfill our responsibility in this area on the drug testing without our hearing from Gottlieb as well, but I think it is important that you do so, particularly since all of the materials have been destroyed. These other two agents, have they talked to them?
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