419
witnen-A. A. Atkinson, 5 February, tbo:8.
13542. Mr. Robertson.] I know some people believe in it ; but when that rule was formed such a contingency was never contemplated. 13543. Mr. Bruce Smith.] But it is general enough to cover it, if it should come under the notice of the Inspector. Then, also, Special Rule 41 says: "All employees must report to the Manager or official in charge any defect they may discover in the machinery or appliances, or any appearance of fire-damp, chokedamp, or other noxious gas, or any defect in the roof or sides of the mine, or any other indication of danger from any other cause." If the Court is going to make suggestions hy-and-bye to minimise the chances of accident, it is as well to notice that, so long as these men, who are working in the mine, are allowed to pass over.this rule by saying "Oh, it was not gas, fire-damp; it was only gunpowder, and therefore I need not report it," it is a loop-hole which becomes a very great danger. 13544. Mr. Ritchie.] It is, practically, a danger which has been pointed out before this Commission, and has not been pointed out before, as far as the rules and regulations are concerned. 13545. Mr. Robertson.] I do not think that, in any of the Royal Commissions that have sat at Home, any mention has been made by any witness, in any shape or form, directly or indirectly, as to the possibility of danger from gunpowder gas. 13546. Witness.] No, I do not remember having seen it myself. 13547. Mr. Robertson.] It is a very curious thing. 13.548. Witness.] It is. 13549. Mr. Bruce Smith.] It will just show the Commission how carelessly men reason with regard to thin. Here is Mr. Julab, who is a well-known under-manager, a certificated man ; and, when asked "Then, if you find anything after a shot is fired, you conclude that it is gas from the powder?" he says " Yes ; unless it continues to give off." You see he recognises that there may be both, but, if one is merely ephemeral, that is from the gunpowder ; and, if it continues to give off; it may be gas which is being emitted from the coal liberated by the fall. 13550. Now, here is the authority that Mr. Atkinson was referring to on this gunpowder case, volume IX of the "Transactions of the Federated Institution of Mining Engineers." [The book was shown to the Commission.]
13551. Mr. Robertson.] Q. Have you noticed the difference in the composition given by Lewes, and that given by Pamely. Pamely gives 50 per cent. of combustible gases ; and Lewes gives 50 per cent. of carbon dioxide, 33 per cent. of nitrogen, and 10 of carbon monoxide, so that that is practically inexplosive? A. Yes. No doubt a great deal depends, as His Honor suggested, on the composition of the explosive. 13552, Q. Now, here is another powder, mining powder, carbon dioxide 32 per cent., carbon monoxide 33 per cent., nitrogen 19 per cent , sulphuretted hydrogen 7 per cent. Welt, one wonld not think, at first glance, that that was explosive. You see it is so mixed. Here is a gas containing 32 per cent. of carbonic acid. Well, one would think it impossible to have an explosive mixture, even if you had 33 per cent. of carbon monoxide? A. I hardly think so, because I know of another case where you could get an explosion With 33 per cent. of CO2, when you had 6 per cent. of firedamp, and the rest air. 13553. Mr. Bruce Smith.] Does not that authority show that that gas is explosive? 13554. Mr. Robertson.] Well, it seems to me, that with 33 per cent. of carbonic acid, hardly any mixture would be explosive. 13555, Mr, Bruce Smith.] Have you got Pamely there ? 13556. Mr. Ritchie.] Yes. 13557. Hr. Bruce Smith.] Does not he give that 1 13558. Mr. Ritchie.] He gives the very same particulars. 13559. Mr. Robertson.] It is a very curious thing that the question has not been brought before any other Commission ; considering the millions of shots that have been fired, one would think it was a matter of common knowledge. 13560. Mr. Bruce Smith.] But these men speak of it as a common thing. 13561. Mr. Robertson.] That is the remarkable thing about it. 13562. Mr. Ritchie.] They may be mistaken. 13563. Mr, Bruce Smith.] It may be gas. 13564. Mr. Ritchie.] Yes. 13565. Mr. Bruce Smith.] Mr. Jubh seems to have arrived at a sort of distinction which he draws between those which explode and finish, and those which explode and continue. He is a bit of a student from what I remember of his demeanour. 13566. Air. Ritchie.] And then we have the evidence of Mr, Atkinson himself, who says it is practically impossible to distinguish the flame of one from the other. 13567. Mr, Bruce Smith.] At all events, it points to this conclusion inevitably, that, whatever they may think it, it ought to be reported. 13568. Mr. Ritchie.] Yes, that is so. 13569. Mr. Bruce Smith.] Q. Now, there is one question with regard to the difficulty which the men said they had experienced in distinguishing between gas and water in producing that singing noise. Are you able to say anything on that point? A, Well, I think that water itself might issue without the singing noise ; but, when accompanied with the singing, I think it is due to gas. 13570. Q. Then, I understand that you think that the Commission may take it that, whenever men heard this singing noise in any mine, although they did not know whether it was water or gas, you think it may be taken to have been gas ? A. That is so. 13571. Q. You think the water would not make that noise? A. No. 13572. _His honor.] Q. Water without gas cannot sing, I suppose ; it is impossible? A, I think not. 13573, Mr. Robertson.] Q. Ibis really the expansion of the gas dint causes the noise ? A. Yes; the fighting of the gas and the water. 13574. Q. It is really like the roaring of steam out of an escape pipe? A. Yes ; that is really an illustration of it. 13575. Mr. Bruce Smith.] Q. Now, you heard Morrison's evidence, the day before yesterday, in which he said that he had never been instructed to inspect these places, like the extreme end of No. 1 heading, because the men bad not been working there. NViiat do you say about that ? A. 'Well, I think it is desirable that the law should be altered, either by altering General Rule 4, or the special rules, so as to include such ewe, 1.357;