Dating Dialogue, Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW

Dating Dialogue

What Would You Do If…

Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters

Dear Dear Navidaters, Navidaters, My question may be different than those you usually receive, but I would really appreciate your advice. I see many girls writing about their lack of suggestions, and I wanted to bring up the opposite side. As a mainstream guy from a good family who went to typical schools and yeshivas, I am struggling with the very real problem of too many suggestions. My inbox is flooded with resumes; I have shadchanim and mothers and random people in the street hounding me constantly; and I am more than overwhelmed. At this point, it is so hard to decide who to go out with and how to prioritize in an endless list of seemingly similar girls. On paper, they all sound great. The shad chanim always tell me this girl is “exactly what you’re looking for.” I am grateful to have a lot of suggestions for dates but it is still hard for me. I can either attempt to sort through huge piles of resumes that all seem the same and that every reference describes as “normal, beautiful, smart, fun, and growing” and still be confused or say yes to every person and spend lots of money and time and effort going on dates every night. Either way, I am not doing these girls or myself a favor as I am burned out and exhausted by even the thought of another date. What advice can you of fer me?

Thanks,

Moshe

Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.

The Panel

The Rebbetzin

Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.

You seem to be detailing two issues.

One is your burnout from the dating scene.

The other is the lack of clarity about what exactly you are seeking in a life partner, and the deluge of suggestions.

I would suggest taking a timeout for both purposes. Take some time to relax from the barrage of dates and girls to really introspect. Don’t just think about the qualities you are seeking in a potential spouse; con sider what you have to offer a young woman in terms of inner qualities and strengths. Give yourself the peace of mind and time to consider your style of dealing with stress and challenge. What qualities would a good potential partner need to have to help you and support you in your response to difficulty? How do you discern whether a young woman has those qualities that will help you de velop in a healthy manner? What are your weak points and in what areas would you like to grow? What have you learned about yourself during your dating experiences? Do you have emotional baggage from your life thus far?

Taking a good look in the mirror is smart as well as humbling. Since you are mature enough to recognize your dating fatigue, and the fact that your resume is very attractive (and that it’s not because you are necessarily so great that you are getting all these suggestions), take responsibility for your dating opportunities. Don’t be passive. Take the time to tell shadchanim who you are, what you are all about, and what qualities you are looking for. You may also want to consider suggestions only from people who know you personally for a while. Taking personal stock of yourself and cutting down on the number of people from whom you take suggestions will make dating a more productive and manageable process.

The Shadchan

Michelle Mond

In shidduchim, women are lost in a desert while men are lost in a forest. Women seem to be lost in a world devoid of good-quality men while men can’t show up at the grocery store without ten more shidduch suggestions being thrown at them from all aisles. This is one of the many problems with the shidduch system. Those who have established this system have (undeliberately) created a world where it is normal for single men and their parents to hoard boxes of resumes of wonderful women to choose from. This inherently creates an aggrandized sense of entitlement in young men who are dating, oftentimes who don’t have much to show for themselves because they don’t need to. This situation makes it more difficult for the men to be able to commit. Why commit to one when the next could potentially be better? The men often harbor an overinflated ego with the knowledge that there will always be someone who surpasses the current one. The next one might be nicer, smarter, prettier, frummer etc... The list goes on... It is a problem that must change, which is why I want to begin with this here, because as a community we must shed light on this crucial issue.

As a community we must educate the young singles out there to completely revamp their thought process if truly serious about marriage, rather than just playing the field. My advice for you is to recognize this: The next person you choose to go out with can have the potential to be your bashert. There is a famous story about an older bochur who went to a famous Rav/ Mekubal. The bochur asked why he wasn’t zoche to be married yet, like most of his peers. The Rav responded, “You did meet your bashert, but you passed her up because you thought the next one would be better.” This rings true for many in today’s generation. Rather than the recognition that he should be looking for a good match by actively choosing this woman as his bashert based on her stellar qualities; these men, with endless suggestions, wait for one of these resumes to be a Ms. Perfect planted at the door along with a bas-kol at no additional charge.

Newsflash: That just does not happen. If it does happen, I am worried for you because it is likely infatuation. Infatuation quickly fades if the relationship is not based on the very sturdy ground of commonality, respect, compatibility, care and trust.

Be very careful not to fall for the false narrative that if you choose to marry an amazing woman whom you respect and care for, with whom you are clearly compatible, you might be doomed if you do not know 100%. You can actively choose your bashert and make her your 100% - you are in the driver’s seat of your happiness here. You can either dwell on the not-soperfect while being blind to your own flaws, leading you from date to date; from girl to girl, with no end in sight. Or, you can focus on the one in front of you, the one you decide to date. If you, together with a like-minded woman who also respects and cherishes you, get to a good place together, do not dwell on what-if’s while staring at your endless abyss of other resumes. You can feel confident moving forward to take the leap of faith together.

Stop looking for signs from above to lead you to certainty; the signs are here on earth. If you have found a connection with someone good for you, go for it, and leave the connection of your souls to G- d - whom, if you chose this woman for the right reasons, will undoubtedly take it from there.

The Single

Rena Friedman

Moshe, Wow! That sounds like a lot. As a girl within the system, I have never experienced anything like that. I do remember the rare occasion where 2 or 3 guys would say yes to me at once and it felt very overwhelming, so I cannot imagine how Don’t just think about the qualities you are seeking in a potential spouse; consider what you have to offer a young woman in terms of inner qualities and strengths.

you are feeling with your level of bombardment. Also, while your question may not be typical, it is an extremely important one that must be asked and answered for both men and women. Thank you for being brave enough to do it and perhaps dodge some rotten tomatoes along the way.

The burnout you discuss is extremely real. Shkoyach for recognizing that you are at that point and trying to find a way to change it up. I experienced this myself as I would say yes to guys who were not shayach for me. The best way to deal with burnout is to pause. Think. Acknowledge what is burning you out and put a system in place to prevent that from happening in the future. For you, it is the overwhelming amount of suggestions from everyone and anyone. You need a serious vetting system in place. Take some time to think about and answer the following questions: What do you need in a wife? What type of girls have and have not worked for you in the past? What is a blatant no for you? Once you have this information gathered, use it to help guide you when doing research.

Use her resume and photo as a preliminary screening. For example, if it drives you nuts when girls do not use proper grammar or spelling in their resumes, then toss all the ones with those errors in the garbage. Have specific questions that you can

ask references to see if the traits you need or need to avoid exist. For example, if you cannot go out with a girl who is socially off then flat out ask the reference, “Is she socially off?”

If you do not want this burden on your shoulders, find a trusted friend, parent, or mentor who truly understands what you need and have them go through the resumes for you. I cannot stress the importance of being 100% confident that this person is on your team and gets you and what you need. The wrong person in this position can be very harmful.

A general warning: although we think we feel better with more choices, the more we have, the less likely we will actually choose or feel satisfied. Keep this in mind. Being married to Ms. Good Enough is better than not being married at all. The amazing right girl is out there for you. Just keep davening. Of all the hishtadlus you can put in from everything mentioned above, place the burden on Hashem. Express to Him that you need Him, and ask Him to help you find the right girl for you. Daven for clarity and specifically that you see the right girl when she is in front of you. Before you know it, your perspective will change and you won’t even recognize yourself. It will all come at the right time.

As always, all feedback, thoughts, and ideas are welcome: renafriedman2@gmail.com.

The Zaidy

Dr. Jeffrey Galler

Iam reluctant to write, “Don’t complain! I wish I had that problem back in high school.” I dread inviting a flood of snide comments from my former classmates.

In today’s world of Shidduchim, your problem is very real and very prevalent, and can be as troubling as

that of a girl who has too few prospects. Statistically, “in the Orthodox dating pool, there are 12 percent more available women than men (Date-Onomics, by Jon Birger).”

A friend remarked that orthodox young men need a secretary and gatekeeper, while orthodox young women need a press agent and public relations firm.

Here are my suggestions: You might wish to attend Rabbinically-supervised social events, where young men and women meet on their own, rather than through recommendations. However, I understand that these events are not accepted in many religious circles.

As an alternative, I suggest that you pick one person, and only one person, that you trust completely. It should be someone who “gets you,” understands your likes and dislikes, and recognizes your particular goals and aspirations. This person could be your mother or a trustworthy shadchan. In shidduchim, women are lost in a desert, while men are lost in a forest. Women seem to be lost in a world devoid of good quality men while men can’t show up at the grocery store without ten more shidduch suggestions being thrown at them from all aisles.

Then, when anyone else contacts you with a shidduch recommenda

The Navidaters Thank you for writing in! I would recommend taking a break from dating to regroup. This break may be a few days, a month or more. If one is being offered one hundred flavors of delicious ice cream, a few outcomes may occur: 1. The person immediately knows he’s going for his favorite flavor, cookie dough. He will choose the cookie dough every time because he loves cookie dough and is truly content with the flavor. 2. He will want to taste a few flavors before he ultimately chooses his ice cream cone. 3. He will stand at the counter for too long, ruminating, unable to choose, and missing the whole ice cream experience.

Take the sage advice the panelists have offered and deeply introspect. Think about what you want. Everyone is “wonderful” on paper. What are you looking for? What is important to you? Since you are getting sugges tion from every Tom, Dick and Harry, you have the luxury of not accepting resumes from peripheral people in your life who do not know you well.

You need a better filtering system. I wonder if you have in any way tion, politely ask the individual to

Pulling It All Together

Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists

Dear Moshe,

please call your

Have a question for the panel? They’re here to help you with your dating conundrums. Email your questions for the panelists to Jen at thenavidaters@gmail.com. invited the over - w h e l m i n g a mou nt of resumes into your life, because let’s face it... it feels good to be wanted and in such high demand. How would you feel limiting the resumes coming in? What would come up for you internally? Notice whatever that feeling is. For some it might be worry that the right one will get away (nerves, anxiety!) For some it might be the loss of the pleasure and almost addictive like euphoria that the onslaught of resumes bring. For some, it might be sheer relief.

This is a huge problem that exists within shidduchim, as other panelists so wisely and eloquently explained. I can’t even begin to explain the amount of incredible (and I mean that!) single women I have had the joy of working with over the years. Women who be lieve there is something wrong with them because they aren’t married and have a hard time getting dates. One of the main focuses of the work is not giving into the belief that there must be something wrong with them. There is something wrong with the shidduch system. It is a system that puts men and their families up on a pedestal while discarding women and theirs. It makes no sense to me other than it being a re flection of some antiquated patriarchal ideas that don’t serve anyone well.

How does this change? If a young man had fifty beautiful girls ready to date him, OF COURSE he is going to have a hard time choosing. We cannot deny human nature. And the women will try to be more and more designated person. Explain respectfully that this allows you to avoid being overwhelmed and distracted. Now, if these suggestions don’t work for you, I have an alternate proposal. My neighbor has a very nice granddaughter. impressive (working harder and harder and feeling less than and less than and less than.) Change has to take place on a systemic level. A movement perhaps. People are afraid of change. They are afraid to upset the powers that be. But this doesn’t work for so many people. Why do we want to continue giving the young men so much power? What are we really afraid of as a community? What would things look like if women were being bombarded with resumes? Hmmmmmm. Or better yet, what would it look like if things were simply more balanced? What are we waiting for?

Jennifer Mann, LCSW It’s true that I never met you, and that I know absolutely nothing about you, and that I only met my neighbor’s granddaughter once, but I think she’d be perfect for you. She is normal,

beautiful, smart, fun, and growing.

Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 516-224-7779, ext. 2. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email thenavidaters@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.

Dr. Deb

It Was His Job or His Anger

By Deb Hirschhorn, Ph.D.

“T hose idiots,” Michael thought. “Can’t they see that they’re making a huge mistake?”

Just then his boss, Jim, came in. “Michael, can you explain what exactly happened between you and the engineering team? Three people came to me and complained separately.”

“Sure,” Michael smiled at Jim, happy to finally have someone who would listen. “They are entrenched in old ways of doing things that are going to cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars unnecessarily. They are just plain block-headed! They have a piece of cement between their ears, and very frankly, it drives me crazy.”

Are you like Michael, thinking everyone is just stupid and you are the only one that is smart? And because of it, you are fed up with most people who you see as bumbling idiots?

Here’s where that assessment leaves Michael:

Alone - because he is so superior in his own mind that there aren’t too many people left that he can respect and admire.

Deprived of knowledge - because in thinking that only he has all the answers, he may never have the opportunity to discover that there’s a better answer; he has closed himself off to information that he didn’t come up with himself.

Unhappy - because human beings were made to connect with others and when we cut ourselves off from others and find ourselves alone,

we are not happy. Many loners will say they’re happy, but that is not the case. The truth is that often they’re unable to get along with others due to their own mental block, so it’s quite painful. Compared to that, being alone is a relief. But a relief is not the same as happy.

Not heard - because no one listens to someone who scorns them.

If he’s married, he’s potentially heading for divorce - because people who think this way make no exceptions, even for the person they’re supposed to love.

If he has kids, they often will become estranged from him - because as they grow and formulate their own view of the world, they will be intolerable of Michael.

Angry – because generally the worst part of the whole problem is that people like Michael are perpetually angry at everyone else because no one is “fit” to be their friend; no one is good enough or cool enough or smart enough. They’re angry at themselves if they look closely enough at themselves to take responsibility for their own mindset. But in any case, they are angry at the rest of humanity.

As much as Michael knows it is not helpful to his job to scowl as he speaks of the guys on the engineering team, he can’t help it. His well-taken points are totally lost on Jim who simply does not like his attitude.

“Michael, I find it hard to attend to what you’re saying when you’re putting down three people who have been with the company for twentysome years a piece. You may have some well-taken points, but your superior attitude is getting in the way,” Jim told him. “I need to see a change of attitude. Pronto. I’m serious,” he concluded.

So there it was. Eight difficult years at this job and now it may be over. Michael is really mad now. He is fussing and fuming. He is ready to start yelling - which would be an automatic prelude to a rapid exit out the door. He holds himself in check and storms out the front door, walking around the huge city block to burn off steam.

Anger isn’t a bad thing - as long as you know how to use it to make a point rather than IT taking control of you. That’s the key. See, the feeling of anger is often quite justified in the workplace. But the expression of anger in a hostile and condescending way is not. Michael needs to learn how to accept his anger without making others feel small. When he puts people down, suddenly the whole reason for the problem is swept aside and his nasty behavior becomes the problem. When Michael learns the elegant difference between expressing anger in a derogatory way versus expressing it constructively, he will experience radical changes in his life: • People will listen to him. • People will like him. • People will want to be around him. • He won’t be lonely any more • Even though he feels superior, he will now enjoy the company of others. • He will be happier. • Oddly enough, he will become open to hearing what others say

because he realizes he needs to hear other’s opinions in order to get heard himself.

You can see how this has big ramifications if he’s married and if has kids. It is really the difference between a satisfying, meaningful life and an empty, miserable one.

So how does he go from point A (antagonizing everyone) to point B (expressing anger constructively)?

It’s all about both physiology and mental state. There are two approaches to helping people change their automatic reactions: a bottom up approach and a top-down approach. The bottom up approach means that we help the body to react differently and the top down approach is we help a person change their way of thinking - their cognition. Both work with anger, but the best and most powerful way to get the change you want is a combination of both.

Physiology, the bottom up approach, can be changed with properly employed meditation, visualization, and EMDR (eye movement repro

cessing and desensitization). The reason these work so well is because the neurotransmitters that we hear so much about such as serotonin are manufactured not in the brain, but the adrenals. Our body is the “first responder” to danger and therefore the first responder to stress. By focusing directly on changing our body’s reaction, we automatically influence our brain’s reaction.

The mental state approach, top down, uses cognitive behavioral tools to help us see things from a broader perspective and a new angle. Once you see things differently, you can sion you started with. An example of this comes from Steven Covey’s book Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. A man and his four kids got on the subway (back in the old days when

When Michael learns the elegant difference between expressing anger in a derogatory way versus expressing it constructively, he will experience radical changes in his life

we could freely ride the subways) and never go back to the more limited ver

he seemed to not be concerned about their rowdiness. The children were all over the car making noise and just being impossible. Now, stop for a minute. What do you think of this father? Is he negligent? Unconcerned? A bad parent? Finally, someone went over to him and spoke sharply about his kids’ behavior. “Oh,” the man mumbled. “We just left the hospital where my wife, their mother, died.”

What do you say to that? Well, the person who spoke sharply and all of us reading the story have now got a much bigger perspective on the problem. The art of a top down approach is to shake up Michael’s perspective on himself, his justified anger, where it started, and how it affects people. It can’t be done as a lecture. That won’t work. It needs to be handled skillfully to help him “see” differently.

Research shows that a combo of both top down and bottom up is quite powerful with anger.

Michael, do you want to save your job - and most likely, your marriage?

Get in touch with me and I will walk you through my 9-week program for totally overcoming anger and reclaiming yourself.

Dr. Deb Hirschhorn is a Marriage and Family Therapist. If you want help with your marriage, begin by signing up to watch her Masterclass at https://drdeb. com/myw-masterclass.