Ill DIS/COURSE By Yuzo Nieto (with extra special help from Clay Branch, Eric Debruin, Kristen Kersh, all of whom participated in the conversation and asked questions. Thanks everyone) IL: [Nieto] So, how do you like Boulder so far? SW: Well, I’ve been here several times, and I’ve always enjoyed it here. What’s interesting, [and] what I’m happy about this time, is that every time I’ve come to Boulder, I’ve gotten a very strong response from the more bohemian sector of Boulder. I mean it has crossed boundaries, but I’ve always felt that strong presence, and what I’ve noticed…I always notice things, like when I started doing the show Girlfriends, that once again, another segment of the community would start coming out. And now, post Nine Inch Nails, yet another segment of the community was coming out. And so what I noticed, especially at the signing today in Boulder, was when you walk in, you’d see a bunch of kids with black tee shirts, when usually I’d walk in a see a bunch of kids with hemp necklaces. You know? It’s a side of this town that I haven’t been introduced to, and so, it’s been cool to see. IL: [Nieto] Do you know about the legacy of poetry in Boulder, about how Ginsberg started that school at Naropa? SW: Yes IL: [Nieto] So can you comment on your experience with the poetic community at Naropa? SW: Unfortunately when I’ve come, and done stuff at Naropa or anywhere else, it’s been no different than here, and so I can give you no real profound statement about the people that I encountered tonight. You saw how much I did or did not really encounter people. I kind of had the opportunity to interact a little bit, but it is so minimal that it’s hard to really immediately digest and give response to make distinctions between one group and another, other than, I can say, “yeah, I noticed tee-shirts and necklaces” or whatever, but aside from that. But, what I have always found here is a warm welcome, and open response. And, once again, that’s what this was tonight…so, there is a sense of openness that pervades in this place, you know. It’s not the most diverse place in the world. IL: [laughter] [Branch] No really? [Nieto] And have you heard about the recent racist incidents here? SW: Yeah, I have heard about what’s happened here as far as the tenured professor, and as far as the football scandal. IL: [Nieto] Also a tri-exec received an email with death threats, a couple of guys got their faces broken… SW: Yeah, I heard about that too. IL: [DeBruin] One of the craziest things about Boulder, everyone says that it’s all “liberal” out here, but when you live in such a homogeneous society, and everyone has so much money, it’s really easy for everybody to say their liberal, but in actuality Boulder is a very conservative place.
SW: Well there is a sort of conservativism that lives within liberalism. It’s just the opposite side of the coin. It may seem better, but it’s not the immediate answer. It’s not about belonging to a side. And those who choose to belong to a side, who have expressed it in that way, granted it may really seem more welcoming and open, but there is still an individual path and journey that must be followed. And if you are sticking close to that individual path and journey, then there are going to be some things that you are in to that do not apply to the side you’ve chosen. Because, in really seeking that balance, you are going to find that there are truths in many perspectives, you know. Nonetheless, as liberal as Boulder may be or seem, it doesn’t surprise me to hear that people are expressing these things. I mean, Black people call each other “nigga.” But, you know, it’s all crazy, it’s all switched up and changed. It’s a strange age, but it’s alright. I mean, you’re here, you’re alive, and you’re still confidently expressing yourself as you. I don’t see you shifting into like, “I’m putting on a baseball cap, and becoming something that fits in, and don’t want to show who I am.” You still seem pretty comfortable being you, you know, so that shit makes you stronger. And assholes pay for being assholes, in some way, shape, or form, even if you don’t deliver the payment, they’ll get theirs. IL: [Kersh] I totally know what you mean…I’m from New York City, which is one of the most liberal places on earth, but you have these people in these 5th Avenue high-rise apartments who spend so much money and they’re so “liberal” in their understanding, but still don’t give money to the guy on the street or on the subway. But, I guess my question for you is, how do you think – considering that we have really been working to get CU students into more spoken word poetry and expressing themselves through the arts with Illiterate Magazine, and in general fighting against what they don’t believe in here – us students can let our presence be known through poetry? [Nieto] Because you are one of the only poets, now, who has actually attained this public sphere level, how did you take poetry from this fairly marginal art form to a greater public sphere? SW: Well [long pause] it’s not something that I did; it’s pretty much something that I am walking through. My background was not in poetry, when I was in school I was in philosophy and drama, and I didn’t start writing poetry truly until like my senior year or really my first year of grad school, you know what I’m saying? And my work has never
been about the poems it’s been about my work that I’m doing on myself and the poetry is the residue. But, my background is in theatre, so that my level of comfort on stage in front of an audience is quite different from your average writer.