Van de Velde/Delight Simmentals 2nd Annual Online Bull Sale

Van de Velde & Delight Simmentals Online Bull Sale

Sale opens March 14 at 9am and racehorse close out starts March 15 at 6 pm

Welcome to the second annual Van De Velde Cattle/Delight Simmentals bull sale. We are very happy with the offering we have put together for this years sale and we feel it is a very deep set of bulls.

Van De Velde Cattle is a family run operation that consists of a 400 cow/calf operation. We run 300 commercial cows along with 100 purebred Simmental cattle. The cattle are fed a total mixed ration (TMR) of corn silage and dry alfalfa. Calving season is through January and February and weaning takes place at the beginning of October. The cattle herd is on a full herd health program including Express 10 pre-breeding/Tasvax 8, ScourGaurd pre-calving and ivermectin pour on. The calves are vaccinated at birth with Enforce 3, vitamin a+d and selenium, then at three months of age and again at 10 months with express 5/tasvax 8. After the calves are weaned in October, they are put directly onto a TMR ration made up of dry hay, corn silage, and a 14% grower ration of rolled grain from New Rose Dale Feed Mill. The bulls have free choice mineral as well as flax based lick tub for their scrotal development.

We have put together a pen of 14 bulls again this year that have been selected for their longevity and breeding soundness. They are full of muscle, loaded with hair, and have great temperaments. The bulls are sired by some of the industry leading sires such as Mader the National 43E, MRL Untouchable 89G, LFE Style 363B, NCB Cobra 47Y, Wheatland Front Runner, Sunny Valley Freedom 22F, and our two main herd bulls MRL Full House 40F and Silver Lake Freightliner 13F. These genetics will produce the right kind of cattle for our commercial producers and will be ready to sire very marketable calves.

VAN DE VELDE CATTLE

Mariapolis, MB

Jared 204-825-4305

Max 204-825-4289

jared-vdv-8@hotmail.com

Feel free to contact us or stop in for a visit if you have any questions or need more information. The coffee’s on and the fridge is always full!

Jared Van de Velde

Welcome to our 2nd Annual Farm Gate Bull Sale. I appreciate working with the Van de Velde’s for this sale as we live 3 miles from each other.

These bulls will be at the Van de Velde’s farm for viewing, beside highway 23, for the open house, March 11-12 and for the timed auction on March 14-15. I am offering 5 yearling bulls, 2 are from the 1st crop of “Oakveiw Hurley” a bull that has earned his place here for a while. Both with mature cows and the yearling heifers.

These bulls, due to the high cost of creep feed last year, didn’t have access to a creep feeder. They had to grow on belly high mature grass and milk. The bulls will be vaccinated again with Express 10 and their first shot for foot rot at semen evaluation time.

sale day information

sale opens Tuesday, March 14 at 9:00AM CST sale close-out starts

Wednesday, March 15 at 6:00PM CST

SALE DAY PHONES

Jared Van De Velde 204-825-4305

Max Van De Velde 204-825-4289

Gordon Delichte 204-526-7502

Darnell Fornwald 403-795-8030

DELIGHT SIMMENTALS

Gordon Delichte

St Alphonse, MB

204-836-2116

g.dekuchte@gmail.com

Last year my cows came home in excellent condition, and with the cold winter. The birth weights were up. Hardly any birth weights were under 100 lbs. This year, cows came home in rougher condition, a milder winter. With the same bulls, and most birth weights were under 100 lbs. So much so, that I put on the long plastic glove, to check the bigger cows, looking for a 2nd calf.

The overwintering ration is a TMR: corn silage, alfalfa hay, grass hay, oat straw. This TMR is the same for the entire herd, and made for the cows. Extra energy, for those that need it, is pail fed once or twice a day. For the 7 yearling bulls, I pail feed 2 (20L) pails of barley in the morning, and 2 more in the evening. Plus 1 lb. a day of 32% protien supplement.

Please contact me anytime to come view the bulls. Thank you for your interest.

Gordon Delichte

Shay Martindale 780-812-4581

Garrett Liebreich 306-815-7078

Corey Bloder 306-228-1456

Kyle Boss 587-432-6160

SALE ONLINE WITH DLMS FARM GATE www.farmgatetimedauctions.com Contact Mark Shologan for any assistance 780-699-5082

VIEW THE CATALOGUE ONLINE www.firstclasscattlemarketing.com

welcome from First Class Cattle Marketing

Welcome to the Second Annual Van de Velde/ Delight Online Simmental Bull Sale. It is once again with great privilege that we are able to work with these two great outfits on their event. Both Van de Velde and Delight have assembled an outstanding set of bulls for your appraisal so please study your catalogue in great detail. I also encourage you to call both Jared and Gordie personally to discuss their offerings with them and talk about your specific bull needs.

The bulls on offer are the right kind. These bulls are stout, hairy, good footed and are fed and bred to go out and breed cows without melting away. These bulls are also backed by some of the very best momma cows in the industry and are sired by breed leading sires through both AI and natural services. There is a large selection of power and calving ease bulls represented by fullblood, red and black Simmentals in both the yearling and two year old divisions. Simply put there is a bull here to fit everyone’s specific needs. These bulls truly need to be seen to be appreciated so please plan on joining us at the Vandevelde farm for the open house. Information is printed in the front of your catalogue.

Please plan on logging onto Farmgate Timed Auctions on March 14th and 15th for the 2nd Annual Van de Velde/ Delight Online Simmental Bull Sale. If for any reason you are unable to see the bulls or log onto bid, all of us at First Class Cattle Marketing will be very familiar with the offering. It will be our pleasure to represent you in a professional and confidential manner in selecting your next herd sire. Mark Shologan with Farmgate Timed Auctions also has his number listed in the book. Give him a call if you have any issues whatsoever with the bidding platform and he will get you headed in the right direction.

Respectfully,

Darnell Fornwald

First Class Cattle Marketing Ltd.

FIRST CLASS CATTLE MARKETING Box 237, Lampman, SK S0C 1N0 Office: 403.795.8030 firstclasscattlemarketing@gmail.com www.firstclasscattlemarketing.com

OPEN HOUSE

HOW TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DLMS FARM GATE TIMED AUCTION WITH EXTENDED BIDDING:

1. Visit www.farmgatetimedauctions.ca, click the LOGIN/ REGISTRATION button. First time users will select the REGISTER button from this page. Fill out the registration form to signup for a free user account and it allows you to select a username and password for use on all Farm Gate Timed auctions. This program will send you text and email messages whenever there is activity on your favorite lots or someone challenges your proxy bid and this is why you will be asked for both your current email and cell phone number. If you are a past participant in the Farm Gate Timed auctions simply enter your user name and password to continue. This takes you to a list of both current and upcoming Farm Gate Auctions.

2. You can choose your favourite lots in this sale at this time and the program will allow you to open either all sale lots or just your favorite lots on your screen. Any time there is active bidding on a lot you have identified on your favorite list you will get a text and/or an email noting this activity.

3. The program allows you to place a proxy bid on any sale lot. This in fact protects your interest in any lot of interest for you to a specified dollar value you set, when you may not be able to give 100% attention to the sale. If the lot has a $2000 bid on it and you place a proxy bid of $3500 into the system, the computer will bid $2100 for you but if some one else bids $2200, the computer will again bid for you, this time at $2300. The system will look after your interest to a maximum of $3500. If another bidder is on at $3600, your proxy will no longer be effective and you will no longer have the winning bid on this lot without once again logging in and bidding again or moving your attention to a second lot of interest.

4. At closing time of the sale the entire sale will extend bidding for 5 minute if a bid is placed on any lot in the sale. Any bid received after 6 PM will extend the sale by 5 minutes from the time of that bid. When no bidding occurs for 5 min the computer will declare the sale finished.

Bulls available for viewing at Van de Velde Cattle ranch from 9am-5pm both Saturday March 11th and Sunday March 12th. Complimentary BBQ supper each night including refreshments. All bulls will be semen tested/weighed prior to open house. Visitors will be entered in a draw towards a $500 sale credit, winner will be contacted Monday March 13th. Volume buyer wins Remington dart gun.

IN-HERD USE SEMEN RIGHTS

Van de Velde/Delight reserve the right to collect semen for in herd use only on any bull in our sale. Semen would be collected at our expense and buyers convenience.

DELIVERY Free delivery within 200 kms of Van De Velde

INSURANCE Keystone Livestock-Lois McRae - 204-573-5192

BUYERS DISCOUNT 5% 3 bulls or more

WINTERING Bulls will be wintered for free until April 15th-$3/day after that All bulls must be insured if staying after sale day

5. Within 24 hours of the sale close the Sale Manager, First Class Cattle Marketing will contact all winning bidders to arrange payment, transfer of pedigrees and delivery/Pick up of your lot.

If you require assistance with using the new DLMS Farm Gate web site, if you don’t understand how to create a favorites list, if you can’t figure out the proxy bid or you just plain want to bid via phone, please talk to any of the DLMS team or Sale Consignors.

WHAT IS RACEHORSE STYLE SALE CLOSE? Racehorse style sale close is when the entire sale stays open in extended bidding. This type of sale allows you as the bidder to change to a different lot within the same sale if the bidding has gone in to extended bidding.

HOW WILL EXTENDED BIDDING WORK? When we get to the close out end time the clock for close extends with any bid placed with less than 5 min on the clock. This type of extended bidding turns the end time to more of a soft time. Extended bidding allows bidders to compete in lots like a real auction and give all bidders the same time to make a decision. Always follow the clock to see how much time remains in the sale you are interested in.

In the spring of 2019 we set out to find a bull that would be the face of our program, we travelled to many respected Simmental breeders across Manitoba and Saskatchewan. The bulls we went through were great and we were very impressed with what each breeder had to offer, but when it came down to the one to buy it was none other than Silver Lake Freightliner 13F. We were very fortunate to get him bought for $29,000 that day, being one of the high sellers in Manitoba that year, from our good friends at Silver Lake Farms. Silver Lake Freightliner 13F is long, deep, and full of muscle. His calves so far have been tremendous, both bulls and heifers. We are very pleased with this set of sons we have on offer, they come with very moderate birth weights and are up and growing. We feel each of his sons will be ready to sire great calves of their own and are excited to see their future in the breed.

if you have any questions please contact us for any of the First Class Marketing team

Silver Lake Freightliner 13F

Springcreek Joy 163Y - Dam

1

LOT #

VDV

JACKPOT 108J

SPRINGCREEK LINER 56U NEVAS L93

SILVER LAKE FREIGHTLINER 13F HART ALL IN W382

SPRINGCREEK JOY 163Y

VDV DJANGO 50A

RCC/TCF LINE DRIVE M181

SPRINGCREEK LINNE 29R

SRS RIGHT-ON 22R

MSBC CLUB QUEEN 2Y

VDV MOUSE 18F MR NLC UPGRADE U8676

VDV MOUSE 18C MAR MAC MOUSE 18W

Jan5 WT YEARLING Oat Harvest 2022

VDV Jackpot 108J is a bull I am very happy to be offering to the Simmental breed. He is sired by non other then our senior herd sire Silver Lake Freightliner 13F and backed by a never miss cow family on the bottom side. Jackpots Dam comes from a great producing cow that has mothered another great bull in this sale, lot 7. Jackpot has a great hair coat and a very good neck extension with calving ease built in to him, look here for a bull to sire very sound, quality females down the road.

HOMO POLLED HETERO BLACK

VDV Jackpot 108J

2

LOT #

SIRE DAM

VDV KRUGER 43K

BPG1410872 VDV 43K Polled Purebred January 17, 2022

LFE POKER FACE 399Z

LFE STYLE 363B

LFE BS CHARO 127Z

SPRINGCREEK SHOOTER 112B

VDV SHOOTER 43E

DRAKE POKER FACE 2X

LFE BS KATARINA 146X

LFE PUNK 407U

KLC MISS RIGHT MOVE 307N

SPRINGCREEKWALLBANGER 11Z

SPRINGCREEK MISTRESS 99X

JHSN BLACKOUT 55U

JONESYS MISS BLACKOUT 34Y JONESYS MS TESSA 34T

BWWWCEBWWWYWMilkMCEMWW 9988011708.24.177.5119.027.85.266.6

VDV Kruger 43K is a bull with tons of style, he has a great hair coat, very exceptional feet, tons of middle and not to forget the blazed face. Kruger comes from a dam that has raised many good cattle here at Van de Velde cattle and has done another great job raising this future herd sire here. Kruger has a great temperament to him and is a favourite for getting scratches any chance we can, he won’t be hard to find sale day.

HOMO POLLED HETERO BLACK

VDV Kruger 43K

Dam - VDV Shooter 43E

Sire - LFE Style 363B

3

LOT #

SIRE DAM

VDV KNIGHT 17K

BPG1410166 VDV 17K Polled Purebred January 04, 2022

LFE GOTHAM 819Y

LFE THE RIDDLER 323B LFE BS CHARO 23Y

MADER THE NATIONAL 43E NCB COBRA 47Y LFE BS VIOLET 641A LFE BS VIOLET 128Z

LR X HP ROCKET 23Y

DFM MARCUS 14M

LR X MS ROCKET 3W

VDV SAMANTHA 17H MRL FIRST CHOICE 6Y

VDV SAMANTHA 17E JONESYS MS SAM 17S

BWWWCEBWWWYWMilkMCEMWW 9684011504.14.880.1120.023.22.363.3

VDV Knight 17K is a very smooth built calving ease type of bull that walks effortlessly across the pen, he was raised from a first calf heifer and has lots of calving ease built in to him but will still bring down the scales come weaning. Knight will do an exceptional job on a group of second time calvers and I think his offspring would be very exciting to watch develop. His dam is doing a great job here and we are very happy with her first calf out of Mader the National 43E.

HOMO POLLED HETERO BLACK

VDV Knight 17K

Dam - VDV Samantha 17H

Sire - Mader The National 43E

VDV King 47K is an extreme bull in his type, he is full of muscle, has great feet underneath him, and is by far the the most stout bull we have ever raised. King’s dam is a young producing dam here at Van de Velde Cattle that has already raised a bull sold through this very sale, and now she has brought this bull to town on just her second time raising a calf. This calf is full of power and will impress anyone who lays eyes on him.

HOMO POLLED

HETERO BLACK

SKORS HIGH ROLLER 34C SKORS JEWEL 226A

SKORS BLACK LICORICE 407F SKORS THROTTLE 147C

SKORS

YEARLING

VDV Klipper 76K is another bull sired by MRL Untouchable 89G, this bull was sold through the McMillen Ranching sale in 2020 to Wilson Stock Farms and we were able to purchase and exclusive Semen pack on this impressive sire through the New Years Resolution sale. For the first year using him he was AI bred to some very select cows and he has done a great job so far on his offspring, Klipper is a very smooth made bull with lots of natural length to him with a bit of calving ease through his head and neck, yet still that extra quarter and muscling added to him to make him perform.

HOMO POLLED

HETERO BLACK

Maternal Brother dam Sire

Full Sister to dam dam Sire

6 VDV KALE 14K

LOT #

RCC/TCF LINE DRIVE M181

SPRINGCREEK LINER 56U NEVAS L93

SILVER LAKE FREIGHTLINER 13F HART ALL IN W382 SPRINGCREEK JOY 163Y

SPRINGCREEK LINNE 29R

LFE BS LEWIS 322U

LFE RED CASINO 3036X LFE DREAM LADY 112P

PG1410106 VDV 14K Polled Purebred January 02, 2022 SIRE DAM

BERTS MS CHURCHILL 14C MRL BLACK BEAR 79S MRL MISS 520U MRL MISS 702R

VDV Kale 14K has been our heavy weight right from the start, he’s had that tank look to him from the very beginning. Kale’s dam was purchased through the Pembina Triangle sale from Bert’s NR and has done nothing but good for us here, she has put some great functional females into our herd and has finally raised us a bull calf. We are very happy to be offering a bull of this quality, sired by the great Silver Lake Freightliner 13F, look here for a bull to add some frame, hair, and great temperaments to his offspring. HOMO POLLED NON DILUTER

VDV Kale 14K

Sire - Silver Lake Freightliner 13F

Brother to Lot 6

VDV Jagger 118J is a powerhouse of a bull, he’s stout and has a great hip on him with an excellent smooth stride across the pen. His dam, VDV Mouse 18C, is a solid built cow who always raises a calf in the top weaning class year after year, she is also the grandam to the Lot 1 bull, VDV Jackpot 108J. Pictured is a full sibling to Jagger, VDV Mouse 81J right before calving this winter.

HOMO POLLED

HETERO BLACK

VDV Kimbo 46K is a very moderate framed bull with tons of middle to him and a great cherry red hair coat that is highly sought after. Kimbo is another well put together Freightliner son that will go out and get the job done, his dam is a very easy keeping moderate cow that consistently produces high quality calves year after year. His progeny will be easy to market.

HOMO POLLED NON DILUTER

Full Sister

Sire

MRL Full House 40F

LOT #

RCC/TCF LINE DRIVE M181

SPRINGCREEK LINER 56U NEVAS L93

SILVER LAKE FREIGHTLINER 13F HART ALL IN W382 SPRINGCREEK JOY 163Y SPRINGCREEK LINNE 29R

SOLWAY ADONIS

KELLY’S SOLWAY ADONIS KFFC KATE Z09Y

VDV LEILA 42G JONESYS MR 1ST CHOICE 19A

VDV LEILA 42D SPRINGCREEK LEILA 169X

Jan5 WT YEARLING

VDV Kirk 420K is a very soft made individual that is very fluid in his stride. He has that extra stretch of growth to him that Freightliner adds to all of his progeny, every time I walk the bull pen he reminds me of the look Freightliner himself had as a yearling bull. Kirk is full of performance and is ready to sire some heavy weight steers, his dam did an absolute knock out job raising him for just her second calf. .

Grandsire - Springcreek Liner 56U

VDV Kirk 420K

Sire - Silver Lake Freightliner

VDV Kashmir 42K is heifer pen approved! He is sired by the great calving ease bull Wheatland Front Runner, and his dam goes back to non other then Silver Lake Freightliner 13F. Kashmirs young, heavy milking Dam, has done an awesome job raising this future herd bull on her first try. Look here to get your heifers bred and also add some extra weight come weaning time. HOMO POLLED

VDV Kane 24K has the best hair coat in the pen this year, has a great set of feet underneath him, and comes from another top cow family here at Van de Velde Cattle. Kanes grandmother, Spring Creek Leila 169X, was bought from the 2014 Spring Creek production sale and has done a tremendous job raising daughters in our herd. She is found in the pedigree of the lot 9, 10, and 11 bull. Kane will sire some very functional females

Maternal Grandsire

Sire

12 VDV KADRI 26K

LOT #

ANCHOR “T” RUSTY 59G

STARWEST POL BLUEPRINT PHS HOMOZYGOUS XCEPTIONAL

SUNNY VALLEY FREEDOM 22F ANCHOR D VIPER 103W

SUNNY VALLEY TRINITY 53Z SUNNY VALLEY TRINITY 70T

JNR’S SALTON

JNR’S POLLED ALAMO JNR SHELAIN

P1412528 VDV 26K Polled Fullblood January 02, 2022 SIRE DAM

VDV SPICE 26D PILLAR MR. WHISTLES

SKYRIDGE SPICE 26C JONESYS SPICE 26S

VDV Kadri 26K is the only full blood bull on offer from us this spring and wow is he made the way we love them, big footed, big nutted, lots of muscle, lots of hair, and heavy dark pigmentation that is very desirable. Kadri comes from a very strong, consistent cow family here at Van de Velde Cattle, this bull will breed some exciting progeny in his future. Sired by the great Sunny Valley Freedom 22F, he is a bull that won’t want to be missed come sale day!

POLLED NON DILUTER

VDV Kadri 26K

Grandsire - Starwest POL Blueprint

VDV Jack 68J is an extremely powerful two year old bull that is ready to cover some extra cows this spring. Jack is a great footed bull with lots of spring of rib and a great qaurter on him, he is very heavy muscled and has a great temperament to him. POLLED

VDV Jake 100J is a heavy haired, loose hided bull with lots of calving ease qualities to him, finer boned, smaller head, and a very smooth neck extension. Jake was retained in our herd last spring to be used on our heifers as our clean up bull, we are starting to get some of his calves on the ground now and they are coming small with lots of vigour to them.

HOMO POLLED

HETERO BLACK

When you evaluate this bull, you appreciate his size, depth of body, wide top, spring of rib, nice full hip and muscle, which he carries low into his flank. He is out of a larger framed cow. She has a tighter and tiddy udder. Slow to start miling at first, with very thick milk, but will have the milk needed to satisfy her calf by the next morning. By the size of her calf in the fall, it must be rich milk.

A smaller version of his half brother. He also has that nice wide topline. This past week I have noticed scurs have appeared on his head. He has really developed well since weaning, putting on the muscle where needed. His mother has a nice udder with smaller teats.

A moderate framed bull that shows the thickness and sogginess that a person expects in a fullblood bull. To me udder size and teat lenth are important. This cow’s teats are shorter, so a calf can easily grab. Udder above the flank with not too much milk, so a calf will empty out the udder soon after birth.

17

Delight ACHIEVE 863K

MFI JEREMIAH 9022

DOUBLE BAR D BANKER DOUBLE BAR D FEATHER 43W VIRGINIA CHEEVERS 302F TTU CANYON VIRGINIA ABBY 302A VIRGINIA JUNI 65Y

JAX 202B

151Y

I suspect this bull may be full fleck. If not, a high percentage. He has the length of body, good body depth, carrying his muscle low on his flank. He is a bit finer boned and a longer narrow head.

Also a moderate frame bull with a nice wide top. A nice square hind quarter and has a loose hide.

19

Delight ROLAND 715K

1419678 LITE 715K Horned Fullblood February 15, 2022

SIBELLE DIRTY HARRY 25Z

PHS BANK ROLL 345B PHS YUMA

DELIGHT ROLAND 64E CHAMPS BRAVO

DELIGHT MS BRAVO 64C SKYRIDGE BAMBI 4A

DELIGHT WIDEMAN 308Z

DELIGHT WITNIE 915D

DELIGHT JULIETTE 915Y

PHS POLLED WORLDWIDE 14W

MJH SASSY 208S

WKF ROMEO 23P

CHERRY CREEK LAUREN 15W

thank you

to our 2023 Bull Sale Sponsors.

TERMS & CONDITIONS

The terms of the sale are cash or cheque payable at par at sale location unless satisfactory credit arrangements have been made prior to the sale. The right of property shall not pass until after settlement is made. First Class Cattle Marketing reserves the right to r equire a certified cheque as settlement before releasing any sale cattle. Should the purchaser fail to settle for his purchase, First Class Cattle Marketing reserves full power to resell the animal to the best advantage, either publicly or privately, without further notice. Any loss arising from such resale, together with keep and all other expenses shall be payable by the defaulter. All settlements must be made with the cler ks of the sale before any cattle will be released. The owners, First Class Cattle Marketing and sale staff have the right to refuse bids from anyone who has a previous record of default in payment and/or who has not made prior credit arrangements prior to the sale with the owners and /or Sale Management.

BID Every animal consigned to the sale must be sold by auction. No by-bidding will be permitted. Each animal will be sold to the h ighest bidder.

PURCHASER’S RISK Each animal becomes the risk of the purchaser as soon as sold.

CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRY The proper Registration of Recordation paper, as the case may be, will be duly transferred and furnished to the buyer for each animal after settlement has been made.

SHIPPING Assistance will be given in making shipment after the sale, but Sale Management or Seller assumes no risk. Expenses incurred are the responsibility of the purchaser. Purchasers are requested to furnish shipping instructions.

GUARANTEE All animals will carry standard breeding guarantee as specified by the applicable Canadian breed Association. At no time shall the seller’s liability exceed the purchased price of the animal.

EXCEPTION TO GUARANTEE In cases where the animal is subjected to any hormonal or surgical reproduction techniques after the sale, the guarantee shall be null and void. In the cases of bulls, they are guaranteed to breed naturally according to applicable Can adian breed Association guarantee, but no guarantee is given that semen from any bull will freeze.

HEALTH It is the buyer’s responsibility to determine health requirements for importing any animal into his province or state. First C lass Cattle Marketing assumes no responsibility for the health status of any animal in the sale.

RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS The above terms and conditions of the sale shall constitute a contract between the buyer and the seller and be equally binding to both. Resale of animals following purchase in this sale shall constitute a separate transaction and the r ights and the terms and conditions of this sale do not cover obligations of the two parties connected thereto.

FIRST CLASS CATTLE MARKETING LTD IS AGENT ONLY It is clearly understood that First Class Cattle Marketing acts only as agent between buyer and seller and is not in any way responsible for any failure by either party to live up to his or her obligations . First Class Cattle Marketing does not assume any financial obligations to collect or enforce collection of monies by either parties, and i n exceptional case, any legal action will be between buyer and seller.