Mary-Ann Schreurs
it's not easy to make people think in another way. So the processes which we have come through can help people to have a more integrated approach to problems. A lot of administrators are thinking in an administrative way. They don't know what the citizens demand. So using languages that are understandable, especially to less educated people, is very important. There are too many forms that are really too difficult. So we should try to make it in clear languages that everybody can understand. So we are going step by step to that evolution. Of course it's not only a matter for the local government. You also have to find a way to attract or persuade local enterprises or anybody who is a stakeholder. The public-private partnership is very important. As for how we started the process, I think it is relevant here. We have a long process of rethinking the layout of our organization. How do we change our 50 years old structure? We have to rethink it and see what new things are coming up. What we are asking now from the provincial government is called right of experimenting. If there is a legal opposition that you can't go further as a local government, you want to have the authorization of the provincial government to experiment. So now we are trying to persuade the provincial government to go that way, which is not easy, but we are continuing to try. Hopefully it will work.
荷蘭恩荷芬市副市長 Deputy Mayor of Eindhoven City, Netherlands
I’ll start with the last thing. We have an issue with EU regulations because every company has to have the same advantages. But we can cope with this. We can do it in the following way: you can make a joint venture. As long as the outcome is uncertain, you can do it with the company. The second thing is you don't want it to remain a monopoly. In other words you can give some advantages to the company, but the system as such should remain open. So you should be careful about the steps that you make later. You do it with the company because the outcome is unclear yet. But the next thing that you make should be essentially accessible to all and that's a duty you owe to your society. So what we do is we take the first step, and make sure that the next step will be able to be taken. And now for the other thing that you said. What is bothering me most actually is the national government. They are organized very much top-down but we are going for an integrated reality. As Fillip has said, when you're doing something right, you also take care to spend less money. So as I said in my speech, in the society, things really have to change in a fundamental way. The national government should make it possible for us to do that. Cities should get together and demand that it should be done. We should do it globally. But the nice thing is that the industry and citizens are supporting us now. So it's just a matter of time.
我非常同意 Mary-Ann 所說的。要處理問題一向很難。公 共管理上有問題。人們不喜歡改變，但是你必須說服他 們。對城市管理而言，要讓人們改變想法不容易。所以 我們的程序可以幫助人們有更整合的方法解決問題。許 多行政人員都以行政方式在思考。他們不知道市民的需 求。所以必須使用可以被理解的語言，特別是接受較低 教育的人們。有許多很困難的形式。我們試著以清楚的 語言，讓每個人能夠理解。所以我們是逐步演進。當然 這不只是地方政府的事。你也必須找出方式吸引或說服 當地企業或所有關係人。公私夥伴關係很重要。至於我 們如何開始的部分，我覺得與這有關。我們一直在思考 組織配置。我們要如何改變 50 多年的老舊組織？我們 必須重新思考發生的事。我們向省政府要求實驗權利。 如果身為地方政府你面對法律的阻撓，你必須取得省政 府的授權，才能進行實驗。所以我們現在在說服省政府 這麼做，這不容易，但是我們會繼續嘗試，希望能夠行 得通。
我先回答最後一個問題。我們有遭遇 EU 法律中問題， 因為每個公司都應該有相同的優勢。但是我們可以處理。 我們以下列方式處理：你可以成立合資企業。只要結果 是不確定性的，你可以跟公司合作。第二，你不希望維 持壟斷。換句話說，你可以給公司一些優勢，但是系統 應該維持開放。所以之後的步驟要非常謹慎。你可以與 公司合作因為結果不確定。但是再來要所有人都可以進 入，這是你對社會的責任。所以我們採取第一步驟，確 定下一個步驟的執行。其他的問題部分，最困擾我的其 實是國家政府。他們是由上而下的組織，但是我們是整 合實體。就像 Fillip 說過的，事情做對，可以省錢。所 以我在演講時也提到社會上必須有基本的改變。國家政 府應該盡可能這麼做。城市應該團結，要求國家政府改 變。應該全球聯盟。但是最棒的是產業與市民給我們的 支持。所以這只是時間的問題。
曾仁杰 Ren-Jie Zeng
Filip Santy
國立交通大學土木工程學系教授兼總務長 / Eco-City 執行長 Professor, Department of Civil Engineering , National Chiao Tung University, Taiwan/CEO, Eco-City
比利時科爾特賴克市副市長 Deputy Mayor of Kortrijk City, Belgium
Let's give a big applause for the three distinguished guests. Thank you for your participation.
I fully agree with what Mary-Ann is saying. It is always difficult to cope with obstacles. There are obstacles in the administration, in the public. People don't like changes but you have to persuade them. For city administrations,
請給三位貴賓，掌聲鼓勵。謝謝﹗ 075