Joy Siegel

† Where did you grow up and how did you end up discovering Dublin?

J: I actually grew up in Chicago and went to University of Illinois, then moved to Virginia to be a teacher. So I was there for 17 years. When anyone asks me where I’m from I say Virginia because I didn’t necessarily choose Illinois but I chose Virginia. My first visit to Ireland was in 2003 and it was the stereotypical backpacking thing. I actually visited a bunch of countries. Ireland was supposed to be my second to last one. I landed and dropped my stuff off at the hostel and my best friend was - she just was not interested. She was going to stay in and that was fine. I just walked outside - and it was actually really close to the corner of O’Connell like right by the River Liffey. It was the Litton Lane hostel, and it’s no more - it's called something else now. And I saw this guy in a kilt and everyone was pale as all get-out, which I am myself. So it was kinda the first moment that I realized there was a place where I looked like everyone else. And it was insane - and my first year teaching I had a girl ask me why I was so white.

†: The paleness is real.

J: The sensibility, the way of life, how everything wasn’t so, not commercialized, but it wasn’t so go-go-go. They valued being around people, they valued the good stuff. They like the craic, let's be honest. I was overcome, I was like this is where I’m supposed to be. And I said something to my best friend and she just kinda laughed at me and was like “yeah that isn’t going to happen.” Like, okay. And I kind of just dismissed it, didn’t think anything of it. I went back home.

Fast forward to 2008 and I convinced my Dad that we were going to take a family Christmas instead of do gifts that year and I convinced him that himself, me, my mom, and my brothers would go… and we actually spent Christmas here for a week. It was after the bust so there was a big difference in 2003 and 2008. But I still felt an absolute connection with to it.

I made my third trip over in 2016. I won a $1,200 grant from an educational foundation in the Richmond, Virginia area. I was actually the first teacher in my schools 27 year history to win this grant and no one has won it since.

My whole thesis was that I really believed in looking and walking in someone else’s shoes. Anytime I taught history it was with the intent to get all of the viewpoints onto the table. I prided myself that by the end of the time I ended a unit, the students would be able to support any of the sides. And say, "Well I can understand why [any side] would say that, I may not agree with it, but I get it."

I believe in looking at points of view from a historical perspective and I wanted to visit Scotland, England, Ireland, and Northern Ireland. [I wanted] to see what they say about each other and about the U.S. I wanted to see what happens when history is presented from the other side. So I got the grant and I spent five weeks over here. And I committed to saying “yes” to everything on this trip. Yes I will stay an extra day and meet someone I haven’t spoken to before. And yes I’ll go on a crazy weekend. I said yes to pretty much everything and really travelled authentically. And

when I got home I was a disaster and it became my mission over the next two years to get back.

That's how I ended up back in November 2016, because I had extra grant money due to Brexit. The money I had been allocated I had budgeted based upon the money I thought[I was going to spend] and then Brexit happened while I was over and suddenly my money went so much further.

I asked if I could go back in November [and it was accepted]. I ended up working in a primary school in Drogheda. It was right after the [U.S. presidential] 2016 election and I absolutely loved every bit of it because the students saw me as a person they could have discussions with and I wouldn’t be offended by what they said or their viewpoint because that was the whole reason I was there.

And then I came back in the spring of 2017, then the fall of 2017 and I realized that the only way for me to get here to live and work was to get a different visa. So I went to the University of Limerick (UL) this past year - just finished - and immediately from UL I got hired by an online medical education company. And after three months I was offered a permanent position. So I’m mid-move to Dublin right now. I have a place to stay next month, and then I’ll have this place for the year. But I’m in the in between stage of moving right now. I’m not leaving though!

†: Are you sponsored then with the job offer?

J: I’m on a visa, but I need the sponsorship kind of. Because I have the job I’m allowed to apply for the work permit which I didn’t actually "I’ve never lived in the same state as my family anyway. It’s not a big deal to me that I’m now an ocean away instead of just a bunch of states away." need because of the visa. But I need the work permit to apply for the visa [laughs]. But it's that kind of stuff which is annoying but so long as you know it up front and you know how to play the game then it is fine. †: So you wouldn’t have decided to move for good until 2008? J: I didn’t see an option for living here, so I just thought it was a nice place to visit. But every time I’d fly home…[sighs]. Like the first time I flew home I was sad. The second time I flew home in 2008 I cried on the plane. Every time after that, like the 2016 trip - I literally started hyperventilating, the poor Aer Lingus flight attendant - just 'cause she was sitting across from me. She was like "Oh wow you are a mess." †: So when you come over is it your own mission, like "This is Ireland, this is it, this is for me?" J: Oh no nope nope nope. So I moved here in 2018 and I knew I was going to get the masters and I knew I was going to get the visa after that. And my whole family is still in Illinois, they didn’t come to Virginia. And the only people here are the friends I’ve made. I’ve absolutely no desire to move back, but once I became an adult I’ve never lived in the same state as my family anyway. It’s not a big deal to me that I’m now just an ocean away instead of just a bunch of States away. †: Do you feel more at home in Irish culture vs. American?

GPO, O'ConnellStreet, Dublin

J: Yes, I do. I had a student two years ago. He was nine and a gifted student. It was before the big trip where I was like “Ah I must get back!” And I said, "Boys and girls I won’t be here next week I’m going back to Ireland." And a girl is like “I don’t understand, why do you like Ireland so much?” And I go, “I can’t really put it into words.” And he goes “No, I got it, I got it. It is where your soul is at home.” I’ve never had even an adult put it so perfectly.

†: How would you describe that feeling? You have everything you could want in theory in the States. Why do you choose to live here?

J: Yeah, there’s not as much. There’s no Target, there's no Old Navy. I feel like here it forces you to have to…just be happy with what you have. It’s not so capitalistic, it’s not so competitive. Like here, the only person I have to be competitive with is myself.

I felt like at home - and that's kind of bizarre 'cause if I’m here then I’m referring to that direction [the States as home], but if I’m back in the States, then I’m like "oh when I go back home [to Ireland]".

Even when I was teaching in the States, it was constantly like who has the best scores? You’re constantly looking over

soul is at home." "It is where your

your shoulder to go "Am I better than that one? Or am I on enough committees? Am I doing enough?" And it isn’t because are you doing enough for yourself. You have to do so much to make sure that you are not falling behind someone else. It’s the constant rush to keep up. Where here…it’s beautiful!

I was so type A, I was so high strung, I was so wound UP. And it wasn’t until I got out of that, and I probably knew that in my first trip in 2003 like as soon as I was out of that and in a situation that allowed me to just sort of let me breathe, then I could see it for what it was. And I was like that is not a healthy situation for me. I cannot live like that and I DIDN'T know differently. But now that I do know differently I know that I can’t do that for the rest of my life. I need to be somewhere I can just breathe and be happy with the little things and just enjoy other people's company.

†: So you've found your spot so to speak. Is it specifically in Dublin? You’ve been coming over a decade, what keeps you in Dublin city? Or are you open to Ireland as a whole?

J: I am open to Ireland as a whole. But I feel like Dublin is where I’m meant to be. I have a bit of that spiritualist side where it's kind of I KNOW what I’m supposed to do and I can’t always explain it and I don’t always understand why but I know that's the path that I’m meant to be on and I just go for it. And I currently bus in once a week to go work and [my work is] kind enough to let me telecommute the other four days a week. When I bus in though I get this smile - I grin when I go in. I like Dublin. It’s busy. It kept its typical Irishness. It's still "I really feel like my life - just being able to get here like was everything beyond measure. Blessed beyond measure, lucky beyond measure." about family and community. And yes it's multicultural and yes there are A LOT of tourists there. But it still has its roots and it's still in the architecture. It has a nice balance of being cosmopolitan and being a look back on history. †: How would you describe your experience as an expat? J: I’ve always had a bit of an affinity. After my trip in 2008 I actually tried to do Irish dance lessons at Temple Bar. They were supposed to be offering them one day when I was there, they didn’t. When I came back [to the States] I started doing competitive Irish dance. And I actually competed from 2010 to 2018. I did my last Feis in June 2018. Why not do all the things? Richmond Virginia actually has a GAA so I started playing camogie in February 2018. I’m a terrible player, my coach from Galway told me to go to Ireland to get better and then come back. I mean I kind of always had the affinity with that. It could have been that a couple of years ago that I had to remember that I am not Irish. Basically [my coach] was very blunt with me, he was like if I want this I better want it bad. Because this is going to be hard, there are going to be people that don’t like you. It just really painted a bleak picture of it. But, to my absolute delight, I have found that that has not been true at all. But I have also never pretended that I was Irish. When people asked where I am from or am I Irish I’ve just never said yes. You just leave the typical answer, you ask an American and they say “Well I’m like 15 percent because my great great grandmother is from Sligo and 42

my uncle is from…” we kind of run through the genealogy. I never did. I just sort of always say no.

I identify as American and I’ve found that has broken down so many borders. And I didn’t realize that something so small like that - they kind of just saw me for someone who wasn’t trying to invade in and you know who you are. And I found that if you are kind and you are decent and you are a kind person that comes through. And I haven’t run into problems. I’ve met some incredible friends here. If you’re a good person and you don’t pretend to be someone you aren’t then people respond to that.

†: How would you define "home"?

J: The way I use "home" is just describing another location for me. So if I were to differentiate, I would say my family is from Illinois, I am from Virginia, but I belong in Ireland.

†: After all of that, if you could go back and change anything do you think you would?

J: [Immediate] No. Even though it was long and drawn out and it was (oh gosh) dramatic and it was heartbreaking and it was frustrating. I made great friends and I lost some friends. I would hope I would appreciate it as much as I do, but I don’t know if I would. So I wouldn’t want to change it because I consider myself so lucky Every. Single. Day. Like in my diary of this year, it actually says ‘beyond measure’ because I really feel like my life - just being able to get here like was everything beyond measure. Blessed beyond measure, lucky beyond measure.

Lady Justice, Dublin Castle