SEPTEMBER 2024 EDITION VOLUME 32, NUMBER 6
STEPHANIE QUIST, IN-HOUSE COUNSEL FOR CONVERGINT SHARES HER VALUES AND BELIEFS ON EMPOWERING COLLEAGUES TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THEIR POSTION IN THE COMPANY
INSIDE
Ten Success Factors for Adoption of Advanced Legal Tech The Disney Slack Hack Attack: Actions to Guard Your Kingdom Holding People Accountable Makes a Better Workforce Mastering Mentorship AND MORE!
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Stephanie Quist, In-House Counsel for Convergint shares her values and beliefs on empowering colleagues to take ownership of their position in the company.
CCBJ: What led you to join Convergint?
Stephanie Quist: I started my legal career in private practice, with a focus on labor and employment. I later became the sole in-house attorney at a company that Convergint acquired in 2020. Convergint was experiencing tremendous growth but did not yet have a full-time, in-house employment attorney, so I guess you could say that we found each other. As I got to know the members of Convergint’s legal team, I was impressed by their intelligence, diversity, creativity and collaborative spirit. I also thought Convergint had a unique culture, especially for a company of its size. Finally, I considered the prospect of building out a new role an interesting challenge. So, when Convergint asked me to take on the position of senior counsel for labor and employment matters globally, I accepted without hesitation.
Interestingly, this wasn’t the first time I was able to take advantage of a right place, right time moment. I had always planned to go to law school after college but decided to first leave my Midwestern roots and spend a couple of years in Washington, DC. I landed a job as research assistant to Lynne Cheney, who, at the time, was a senior fellow at a think tank called the American Enterprise Institute. When then-Governor George Bush picked her husband, Dick Cheney, to be his running mate in the 2000 election, I suddenly found myself working on a national presidential campaign and, eventually, at the White House, as both a domestic policy advisor to the Vice President and Chief of Staff to Lynne Cheney. During that time, I worked with incredibly talented individuals, including some brilliant
Vice President Cheney had a tremendous influence on the type of leader I try to be.
attorneys who reinforced my interest in pursuing a legal career. After 10 years in DC, I did eventually make it to law school.
Please tell us about your leadership style and who or what has influenced it?
Vice President Cheney had a tremendous influence on the type of leader I try to be. He taught me that leadership is about service. I will never forget when, shortly after the 2000 inauguration, he called his staff together and said, “Our job is to serve the President and the people of the United States. That includes the career civil servants, who have been here long before you got here and will be here long after you are gone. The day I hear that any of you have treated them with disrespect or otherwise abused your authority as a member of my team is your last day here.” He treated his staff at all levels with respect and kindness, which made us feel valued and earned our loyalty.
From my perspective, a huge part of leadership is about respect and service. People want to follow someone who treats them with respect, gives them the tools they need to grow in their position and has their back. The only way true leaders succeed is when those in their sphere of influence succeed. Otherwise, they’re not really leaders, they just happen to be in charge.
What qualities do you look for when you’re hiring new people for your team?
In the employment law space, I typically target mid- to senior-level associates in firms with respected employment law practices who have decided to go in-house rather than stay on the partner track. At that point in their career, they’ve had exposure to the many laws that employment law practitioners juggle daily, but aren’t overly specialized. I also value individuals who have a lot of experience providing day-to-day guidance on employment issues.
In addition to competency, I value someone who is practical, personable, proactive and a problem-solver. Practical
attorneys are able to translate legal concepts into bottomline recommendations, which is what businesses want. Personable attorneys form good working relationships that encourage their business counterparts to seek their advice. Proactive attorneys keep the company out of trouble in the first place, which saves time and resources. And problem-solvers are simply invaluable. Anyone can spot a problem, but give me someone who not only spots it, but proposes 3 options for fixing it. I also prefer someone with a good sense of humor. The practice of law is stressful, so it's important to be able to enjoy the lighter side of life with your colleagues.
But the best advice I received from one of my mentors was: “Hire people who are smarter and better than you and then get out of their way.”
How would you describe the culture of your organization?
Convergint is uniquely focused on culture. In fact, the first thing Convergint’s founders did when they decided to start the company was to define its culture. The pillars of this culture (our core values and beliefs, or Vs & Bs) are our global network of expert colleagues; our strong, ongoing commitment to inclusion and diversity; our focus on safety in all that we do; and our dedication to exceptional customer service. Our Vs & Bs focus on empowering colleagues to take ownership of their position within the company and drive success at the local level.
Our cornerstone V & B is: “We expect to be our customers’ best service provider.” One of the most profound ways Convergint models its culture of service is through an annual Social Responsibility Day. One day each June, Convergint closes its operations and offers its colleagues a paid opportunity to engage in various local service projects for those in need. This year, more than 9,000 Convergint colleagues worldwide volunteered at more than 200 local
Hire people who are smarter and better than you—and then get out of their way.
organizations. Many projects—such as the STEP Up for Schools initiative involve providing local schools with new or upgraded security systems. I love that we leverage our expertise as a security integrator to make our schools safer.
What is the most influential career advice you’ve ever received?
It’s something my dad taught me, which is that the best way to find the “next thing” is to become the best you possibly can at your “current thing,” because being good at your current thing is often what opens the door to the next thing. And I’ve found that to be true.
I’ve also learned from my own career journey to be open to the unexpected. That may sound funny coming from a lawyer given that we are often seen as risk averse. But I think too much tunnel vision can be a career killer. While I didn’t start my legal career until I was well into my 30s, the skills I learned while working at the White House made me a better attorney in the long run.
That’s one of the reasons that I have such respect for our CEO, Ann Fandozzi. She started her career as an engineer with no plans to move into corporate management. But because she was open to unexpected opportunities, she’s now a successful CEO with master’s degrees in both engineering and business administration. And my guess is that her engineering background allows her to bring a unique perspective to her work.
So don’t think you have to have everything figured out by the age of 21—or even 41 or 51. Because you have no idea what interesting opportunities may be around the corner.
What changes would you like to see in the legal profession?
From an in-house perspective, I’m concerned about the increasing trend toward treating outside counsel as “just another vendor” rather than a trusted partner. Some of my colleagues in private practice have even had their engagement letters go through procurement rather than the legal department. There are two things on the in-house side that I think would help reverse this trend. First, when evaluating outside counsel, focus not only on billing rates but also return on investment. Second, in-house counsel should always try to be a good client. For example, don’t make outside counsel run fire drills unless it is truly necessary.
I think outside counsel, for their part, can help reverse this trend by continuing to expand alternatives to the billable hour and by making sure their billing practices evidence an interest in bringing value rather than just billing as many hours as possible.
In this piece, Corey Garver, Legal Tech Advisor with Meritas, lays out a useful roadmap for adoption of advanced legal technology by corporate law departments. He begins with a caveat. “Success with technology is never a guarantee,” he says. “There are many elements needed to achieve it. Organizations that deliver legal services must take into consideration many factors, including:
• Strategic Alignment
Alignment of the technology must meet business objectives, which entails identifying specific “pain points” where tech can drive value and improve delivery of legal services.
• Data Governance
Data hygiene is not optional. Legal departments must ensure that their data is accurate, complete and organized to facilitate efficient processing and analysis.
• Change Management
The legal profession is rooted in tradition, which means some will be hesitant to embrace new technologies, especially if they disrupt familiar processes.
• Ethical and Regulatory Compliance
AI and other advanced tech raise ethical and regulatory concerns (e.g., data privacy, bias, transparency). Law departments must comply with applicable regulations and ethical strictures.
• Security and Confidentiality
Legal departments oversee sensitive and confidential information. Data security is a paramount concern when adopting innovative legal technologies. Robust measures must be put in place to protect client data, intellectual property and privileged communications.
• Vendor Selection and Integration
Legal departments must scrupulously evaluate the landscape for the right partners and tools to. Smaller corporate law departments can leverage technology to streamline processes and enhance efficiency while mitigating risks and ensuring compliance.
•User Experience and Adoption
Successful tech implementation depends on robust user adoption. Legal professionals, not known for their embrace of new modes and methods, will turn off if new tools are inefficient and fail to add value in their day-to-day work. That’s the path to resistance and underutilization.
•Access to Access
Clearly, advanced tech can save costs even while driving efficiencies. But implementation and ongoing maintenance can be expensive. Corporate law departments, especially smaller teams with tighter budgets, must access the total cost of ownership and keep a close eye on ROI.
•Talent Development
Adoption of advanced technologies requires legal professionals to develop new skills and expertise. To avoid throwing good money after bad, corporate law departments should invest in training and talent development to equip staff to leverage these shiny new technologies.
•Continouous Improvement and Innovation
Technology evolves at breakneck speed - so rapidly it can outrun the ability of the corporate law department to harness its potential. That means GCs and their teams must embrace a continuous improvement mentality and regularly adapt their strategies to stay ahead of the curve.
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Tanisha Reed joins Equitable as associate General Counsel from McGuireWoods
Amdrew Feller joins Kohn, Kohn & Colapinto (KKC) as Senior Special Counsel
Ronald Chillemi joins Figure Technology Solutions Inc as Chief Legal Officer & Corporate Secretary
Will Summers & Michael Skouras join Gibson Dunn
King & Spalding Adds 12 lawyer team and capital solutions platform to finance and restructuring practice in london
Reinshaw plc, has appointed Kasim Hussain as its new Group General Counsel and Company Secretary
Gina Adams named as EVP, General Counsel and Secretary at FedExCorp
Epiq Billing Services set to transform the legal billing process with enhanced accuracy, efficiency, and compliance for both inhouse and outside counsel
Onit announces groundbreaking feature offering status sharing and management, permissions controls and a notification system to SimpleLegal
Dr. Mesut Korkmaz joins Hogan Lovells as Partner
Tadd Blair joins Gunster as Business Litigation Attorney
Patrick Rose joins Jackson Walker as Partner
Laura Mittleman joins Goulton & Storrs in Boston
Too busy to read it all? Try these books, blogs, webcasts, websites and other info resources curated by CCBJ especially for corporate counsel and legal ops professionals.
In this piece, Susan Raridon Lambreth, co-founding principal at LawVision, takes a look back at an article she wrote for the ABA Journal that caused a stir in 1989 for its predictions about the future of law firms over the next 50 years. Working with her colleague and business partner, Joe Altonji, she boldly went, at the request of the Cincinnati Bar Journal, where few consultants will venture and revisited her 1989 article. Back then, Lambreth mentioned artificial intelligence, which, as we all know, is having its moment as generative AI takes center stage more than 30 years later. It’s a fun and enlightening read, though not for the faint of heart, as she says, noting that “unless you were in the industry back then (or close to it) it may not mean much to you – though you may find parts of it humorous in contrast to what is going on in BigLaw today.” Check it out for a chuckle.
Our friends at the always insightful Artificial Lawyer recently reported on Stanford’s genAI Benchmark and the achievement of software company Paxton AI, which achieved a 94 percent accuracy rate. When Stanford researchers studied legal research tools, using a series of test questions, they found they were far less accurate and more prone to hallucinations than expected. “Legal AI tools, like those developed at Paxton AI, are increasingly relied on in professional settings where accuracy can significantly impact legal outcomes,” writes Artificial Lawyer. “The benchmark measures various tasks such as case existence verification, citation retrieval and identifying the authors of majority opinions. High performance in these areas signals that AI can be a trustworthy aid in complex legal analyses, potentially transforming legal research methodologies.” Read much more about Stanford’s genAI Benchmark and Paxton AI’s performance at Artificial Lawyer.
Jordan Furlong, an acclaimed legal sector analyst, author and advisor focused on accelerating the arrival of a better legal system, recently released a piece called, “The race against time to reinvent lawyers.” As with most everything from Furlong, it is well worth a look. “Our legal education and licensing systems produce one kind of lawyer,” he writes. “The legal market of the near future will need another kind. If we can't close this gap fast, we'll have a very serious problem.” Jordan jumps off from a survey he is asked to fill out by a think tank he works with, but he is quickly awash in “existential dread.” “We are unaccustomed to a distinction between lawyer skills and a lawyer license,” he writes. “I think we’d better get accustomed fast.” Dire thoughts follow. “I don’t believe the legal profession fully appreciates the risk posed by the rapid obsolescence of our lawyer formation systems.”
In a piece from veteran legal journalist Bob Ambrogi, we learn that David Cambria, the so-called Godfather of Legal Operations, has left megafirm Baker McKenzie, where he served as chief services officer and innovation co-chair to join Epiq as managing director leading the legal business advisory practice. Cambria, who served as COO and head of global operations, Fortune 50 company Archer Daniels Midland, was a cofounder of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC) and helped establish the legal operations division within the Association of Corporate Counsel. “The experts at Epiq and the knowledge that we have under one roof is unprecedented,” Cambria says. “We have experience in navigating the marketplace, are solutionoriented and move fast to engineer new operational structures and solutions to support today’s highly efficient legal departments.”
Since launching its Global In-House Counsel Compensation Survey in 2012, legal search firm Major, Lindsay & Africa has had mostly good news to report. Until now. For the first time, GCs and CLOs in the U.S. reported that their total actual cash (TAC) compensation has decreased. No need to weep just yet, but average comp edged down 4 percent to $556,794. “As companies grapple with persistent inflation, high interest rates and other economic headwinds, much of the decline in pay is attributable to precipitous drops in bonuses: GCs and CLOs collectively saw their bonuses fall by 15 percent, while their base pay increased just slightly, up by less than 1 percent in the past two years,” writes Major Lindsay, noting that the haircut comes in the face of the ongoing expansion of the GC role. Additionally, the stubborn gender pay gap continues to narrow. In 2023, female GCs and CLOs took home about 12 percent less in total compensation than their male colleagues, at $527,525 compared to $596,180 – a decrease from the 15 percent gender pay gap seen in 2021.
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Shannon Kelley is appointed General Counsel at Madrigal Pharmacueticals Inc
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Brian Isreal joins Paul Hastings as Partner
Thanks to the law firms, technology companies, alternative legal service providers, management consultants and other supporters of corporate law departments who share their insights and expertise through the CCBJ network. Your participation is appreciated.
Ronald J. Levine is an accomplished attorney with more than 45 years of experience. For 15 years he co-chaired litigation at Herrick, Feinstein LLP and also served as its general counsel. He graduated with honors from Harvard Law School and recieved his undergraduate summa cum laude from Princeton University, where he was elected to Phi Betta Kappa.
Richard Torrenzano is Chief Executive of The Torrenzano Group which helps organizations take control of how they are percieved. For nearly a decade, he was a member of the New York Stock Exchange management (policy) and Excutive (operations) committees. His new book was released in August: CEO Playbook: 101 AI and Communications Game-Changing Stakeholder Strategies.
is the inaugrual General Counsel to Populus Group LLC since July 2020. In this current role, Tara spends her time providing legal services to the Minority and Veteran privately owned staffing company to ensure they are compliant while providing opportunity for everyone to succeed. Tara recieved her law degree from University of Pennsylvania and her Undergread from Princeton University.
Quist is Senior Employment Counsel at Convergint, a global systems integrator with more than 10,000 colleagues worldwide. In that role she serves as Convergint's primary in-house resource for labor and employment matters globally. Stephanie began her legal career in private practice before moving in-house. Stephanie is a second-career attorney. Before attending law school, she served in the Bush Administration as a domestic policy advisor to Vice President, DIck Cheney and Chief of Staff to Second Lady Lynne Cheney.
Stryker is Commercial Counsel at Recharge Payments. Before joining Recharge, Kat worked as inhouse counsel at Rad Power Bikes, Lighthouse Global and Redfin. Kat has supported the WSBA Corporate Counsel Section as an Executive Committee member since 2019 and as Secretary of the section since 2021. Kat earned her BS in Arch. Engineering Tech from the University of Cincinatti and her JD from Seattle University School of Law.
RICHARD TORRENZANO & RONALD LEVINE THE TORRENZANO GROUP
In a startling revelation in early July, sensitive data from Disney’s internal Slack system, including strategic discussions on ad campaigns, studio technology and other confidential information, were exposed online by NullBulge, a group reportedly committed to fighting AIgenerated art.
This activist effort to damage Disney’s reputation brings unanticipated and unwanted attention to the entertainment powerhouse as the leaked data reportedly contains sensitive details about Disney’s corporate website, software and future project development, as well as assessments of employment candidates.
Such breaches disrupt operations and potentially compromise corporate integrity and is reminiscent of previous industry incidents such as Sony’s cyberattack in 2014.
No organization is safe from unauthorized leaks. Are you prepared?
Iconic brands and technology titans are prime targets for hacks and unauthorized leaks. Today, artificial intelligence (AI) propels information at ludicrous velocity, requiring leaders to rethink how they manage confidential material.
No entity, regardless of its authority or magnitude, is immune from leaks.
Top government agencies have been hit hard. Edward Snowden’s 2013 NSA leak exposed global surveillance,
sparking policy changes. WikiLeaks’ 2017 “Vault 7” revealed CIA hacking tools, impacting cybersecurity. And in 2022, a draft Supreme Court opinion on Roe v. Wade was leaked, causing public uproar.
Over the past year, there have been a rash of cybersecurity incidents that have impacted various industry giants in many sectors, which have been hit with ransomware attacks, hacks, breaches and leaks.
To understand the depth and breadth of the problem, in 2023 alone, more than 8,000,000 data records were reportedly breached, most in the private sector.
Risk management and insurance professionals branded cyber incidents as the top global business risk in the 2024 Allianz Risk Barometer followed by business interruption. The annual survey incorporated views from more than 3,000 experts in 92 countries and territories.
Data breach was the cyber exposure of most concern, followed by cyber-attacks on critical infrastructure and physical assets and in the increase in ransomware attacks.
These incidents starkly highlight vulnerabilities and underscore the urgent need for business leaders to implement comprehensive and pro-active defense strategies against increasingly sophisticated threats.
Despite rigorous efforts, it is nearly impossible to maintain genuine internal documents. AI is outpacing policies and procedures; even measures from a year ago are outdated, leading to costly blunders.
AI performs a multidimensional role.
It harnesses algorithms and data to enable machine or software tasks that traditionally rely on human intelligence -- learning, reasoning, problem-solving, perception and understanding. While it should not and cannot replace human capabilities, this technology can greatly optimize logistics, detect fraud, conduct research and analyze trends.
Moreover, the downside of AI includes potential job displacement, privacy and data security concerns, biases in algorithms, over-reliance on technology and ethical dilemmas in decision-making.
Most importantly, recognize the same AI technology deployed to protect, can be activated to attack, posing significant risks and threats to society, reputation and stakeholder trust.
Technology alone is not the answer.
In today’s rapidly evolving digital landscape, key cyber strategies, coupled with an understanding of reputational risk, should drive management practices essential to safeguarding sensitive information.
Confidential documents must now be subject to rigorous controls. Sensitive information must be shielded from unauthorized access, ensuring that only those with specific clearance are aware of or have access.
Even with the most advanced technology, companies must still prepare for the worst. Following are some ideas to accomplish this.
The instantaneous digital and cyber world demonstrates time is not on your side.
Consequently, you must think quite differently about time than we did just a few years ago.
In Richard Torrenzano’s coauthored, game-changing book, Digital Assassination: Protecting Your Reputation, Brand, or Business Against Online Attacks, a standard digital response process was established, as well as a response time for digital harm of 8 hours.
Today, that concept is beyond significant, as the magnitude of attacks and leaks have dramatically accelerated at warp speed. We anow face a “2-hour digital day.”
In today’s instant, mobile environment, when an attack occurs or a sensitive document is leaked, you have 1 or 2 hours for an initial response. Delays in response and conflicting statements written in legalese or gibberish result in a fiasco.
In many corporate cultures, business leaders and their advisors are simply not organized to operate at digital warp speed.
It is not a question of if but when a “black swan” event will occur. Leaders must have a strategically crafted and wellrehearsed plan to address such situations.
Complacency is risky; the belief “it can’t happen here” is a dangerous delusion.
Policies, procedures and ongoing training should be reviewed semiannually to ensure a swift, coordinated risk response to protect reputation, operations and financial stability.
Emails, texts, reports, documents and other communications must now be written with the expectation that they could be widely shared.
This shift necessitates every document must be clear and precise and carefully considered for its broader implications.
Professionals must craft communications with a heightened awareness of how they might be perceived by a wider audience, ensuring that their words are both effective and appropriate in any context. Ongoing training is a necessary component.
Leaked confidential documents quickly become headlines, spreading rapidly by competitors and activists.
In the 24/7 news cycle, the relentless pace of modern media means control over the narrative is beyond difficult.
Additionally, establishing clear communications and a solid response plan for leaks is crucial. Transparent and prompt engagement with stakeholders helps manage and minimize the impact of such disclosures.
Regular reviews, ongoing training and stringent internal procedures and confidentiality agreements are essential components of a robust security strategy and reputation protection.
Regular reviews, ongoing training and stringent internal procedures and confidentiality agreements are essential components of a robust security strategy and reputation protection.
These best practices, combined with a formal disciplinary policy for handling breaches, form the backbone of effective management to not only prevent costly breaches … but protect reputation and mitigate financial injury.
Disney breach shows Mickey and others, need strong firewalls and enhanced focus on reputation.
A well-rehearsed plan for different crises, along with semiannual policy and procedure reviews to update technology advances, can make a difference and provide the swift response crucial to protecting reputation, operations and financial health.
Years before AI overtook business and society, one of America’s wisest, Warren Buffet, stated, “It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you’ll do things differently.” His foresight was spot on then … and remains on point today.
Ronald J. Levine is an accomplished attorney with more than 45 years of experience. For 15 years he co-chaired litigation at Herrick, Feinstein LLP and also served as its general counsel. He graduated with honors from Harvard Law School and recieved his undergraduate summa cum laude from Princeton University, where he was elected to Phi Betta Kappa.
is Chief Executive of The Torrenzano Group which helps organizations take control of how they are percieved. For nearly a decade, he was a member of the New York Stock Exchange management (policy) and Excutive (operations) committees. His new book was released in August: CEO Playbook: 101 AI and Communications GameChanging Stakeholder Strategies.
TARA O'CONNOR POPULUS GROUP
CCBJ: Tell us about yourself, your journey and how you landed at the Populus Group?
Tara O’Connor: After law school, I clerked for a judge because while I knew I wanted to practice law, I didn’t know where. Working for a federal judge was an eyeopening experience, sort of my 4th and 5th year of law school. I interacted with different kinds of lawyers who came before the court. Based on those interactions, as well as talking to friends who had already started at law firms, I decided to go in-house because I liked the idea of practicing law with people who are your teammates. I hire a lot of outside counsel, so it’s not that I don’t appreciate what they do. But it’s different being on the ground working in the business that you’re advising and supporting.
I went straight to IBM—and I moved to Michigan and later to New York. From IBM I went into the financial services industry—first American Express, then Standard & Poor’s, then Goldman Sachs. That covers the first 6-8 years of my career. My former co-clerk (who’s now a judge) told me about a great job with a cereal company in Michigan. I moved back to Michigan to work for Kellogg Company, where I worked for about 8 years.
I stayed, in large part, because of the leadership. Gary Pilnick, then General Counsel who is now the president and CEO of W.K. Kellogg, was the type of leader who made you want to provide excellent work for him. His attitude was, “You’re smart, you can learn things. You’re not stuck in one type of practice.” I was hired to be the company’s “snacks counsel” and on my 2nd day became the benefits lawyer. It was a brave, bold move because I wasn’t even sure of the difference between a 401(k) and a pension and yet suddenly, I was the head lawyer for benefits for Kellogg. My team told me, “Don’t worry. We have great outside counsel.” I took the role in August and that outside counsel moved on in October. It was quite an adventure!
When I took the role, Kellogg had 2 401(k) funds, 2 pensions, multiple union plans and health care plans,
it was insane. After 1-2 years in that role, I switched to employment law and benefits law. I pointed out that I was hired to do IP and contracts law and was told “You’re smart. You’ll figure it out.” I switched over to benefits and employment law, which turned out to be the best move ever. I love employment law because we’re all employees, it is important because if your people aren’t happy, your company’s not going to do well. They later took benefits away from me and gave me immigration, which I also fell in love with.
After Kellogg, I went to the US Olympic & Paralympic Committee, where I was responsible for all the commercial work, the employment work and I assumed the role of Director of Ethics. Most people don’t realize what a herculean task it is executing the Olympics—how many contracts need to be managed, airline tickets to be purchased, housing arrangements to be made, branded apparel to deal with. It’s a huge event and the number of people pulling it all together is shockingly small.
It was a fabulous experience. I got to go with the team to Toronto for the Parapan American Games and to the Rio Paralympics. There were just so many types of leadership in that environment. You have corporate leadership, the coach leadership and the athletes sort of leading themselves. It taught me to ask for what I wanted and then stretch my wings a little bit. At first, I felt a little out of my depth on the ethics issues, but it went well.
Living in Colorado was, for my husband and I, felt like we were in another country because our families were on the East Coast. After the Rio Olympics I told my husband I would look for a new job if it entailed nothing but employment law, was close to family and was in a city where, if the job didn’t work out, I wouldn’t have to move again. A friend told me about a great job at the University of Pittsburgh—my hometown. I applied, got the job and started in October of 2017.
I came to the University of Pittsburgh as the head employment law attorney. It’s interesting how similar Olympians and professors are. They’re all narrowly
focused and brilliant at what they do, but when it comes to following proscribed paths away from their center of excellence, they can face a challenge.
Someone once told me, “Even if you love your job, always look for another job,” I saw a chance to work for a company that was looking for its first general counsel. They wanted someone with an employment law background, I applied and got the job at Populus Group. It would’ve necessitated another move to Michigan, but I was hired at the beginning of COVID, as such my entire time at Populus has been remote. In fact, the whole company is remote-first, which has given us a lot of geographical diversity.
What have you learned about leadership during your career?
I’ve learned that the way American corporations develop leaders doesn’t always result in the best leadership. For example, in a sales organization, the person with the highest sales suddenly becomes the sales manager, even though the skills for sales are not the same as the skills for management. So, it’s important when you promote
someone to a leadership position, that you also teach them leadership skills. People have a better experience if they have better leaders. The adage that you don’t leave a job, you leave a boss, is so true. I believe if we improve leadership, we’d have less job switching.
Your employment history is so diverse. Do you think that’s contributed to your leadership development?
Definitely. I’ve had many bosses, worked in many environments and know what does and doesn’t work. I’ve had my share of challenging people to work for and I fully embrace and acknowledge that I can be difficult to manage as well. I also think that helps make me a good leader. When I was at Kellogg, the company had the “K Values”, a set of core values that guide the company’s actions and decisions and are the foundation of their Global Code of Ethics. My favorite one, “Humility”, encouraged the idea that you can learn from anyone.
I’ve kept that in mind. Because I don’t know everything and there are a lot of things I’m not particularly good at. Like Excel. My team is filled with tech wizards, so I just say, “Help,” and they help me. Being humble and getting to know the people you work with and who report to you and not just as workers but as people, is important. This year, one of the things I’m working on is helping my team broaden their professional abilities. It’s not that I’m trying to get any of them to leave; I just think that while they’re amazing at what they do, I don’t want them to become too narrowly focused. I want them to branch out and try other things.
Knowing your team, being humble and understanding that people are human and make mistakes but can also bounce back from a mistake is important for leaders to acknowledge.
What are some everyday things a leader should have under consideration?
It’s important for a leader to know their people, but also to be demanding of them. Not demanding like mothers can be (“Pick up your shirt!”) but expecting more from them than they might expect from themselves; helping them reach and grow—and then holding them to it.
If someone not on my team comes to me with a contract to deal with, I could just take the contract from them, negotiate it and be done with it, but it’s important for me to challenge them to do it themselves. Once it is done, we
It’s important when you promote someone to a leadership position, that you also teach them leadership skills.
can look back at what they’ve done and if necessary, give them pointers. Holding people accountable makes them better workers and results in better work product. I am all for being demanding and holding employees accountable— with a growth mindset. You share your expectations and you expect them to live up to them.
One of the things that I love about Populus Group is that our president, Bobby Herrera, is always teaching us about leadership. There are different attributes he has us work on and being demanding is one of them. I told him, “I can be demanding, but no one will like me.” He dismissed my concern. “It’s just having expectations of employees and then supporting them so they can meet your expectations.” It’s about demanding in the least demanding way possible.
You mentioned using your team to help with minimizing your knowledge gaps. Can you expand on that?
For example, I’m a Microsoft Word person. I not only write in Word, but I also like to make my charts in Word. I simply have a blind spot when it comes to Excel. Meanwhile, I manage the Risk and Compliance team and they think in Excel. Thankfully, if there’s an Excel-heavy project that I need to work on, they help me figure it out. Take our annual reviews. They’re done in Excel and it’s not just a simple Excel spreadsheet; it literally has 30 columns, including formula or function cells that automatically perform calculations. But I’ve been a lawyer for so long that I am not embarrassed to admit I don’t know something. Being humble and vulnerable is important for leaders and I’m the first to admit that while I’m a numbers girl, I am just not an Excel fan.
It helps that Populus has an amazing training team which offers refresher courses on Excel, Teams and the rest of the applications in Microsoft Office Suite.
What do you think is the most important thing or things in a leader’s toolbox?
Being relatable is important. You don’t want people to be scared to talk to you. It’s important to be compassionate and have an open-door policy so someone can feel comfortable coming to you and saying, “I just can’t get this done. I have a mental block for it.” If they’re honest enough to tell you about their shortcomings, you should be open to listening and helping them skill up.
Any challenges with an all-remote workforce?
No. As I mentioned, we’re primarily remote, but if you want to come into the office, we have offices near Chicago, in Troy, MI, and in Maryland, where our CFO sits. We also have regular, company-wide meetings, where we all meet
and have a couple of days together to go over where things stand. In addition, we have meetings where all the managers get together and talk about leadership. We use Teams a lot and as someone who has never worked in the office since joining Populus, I can’t say I’ve missed anything. I know some people miss the camaraderie, but we’re very intentional about creating experiences for people to get together, especially for the type of people where physically being together is important.
Tara O'Connor is the inaugrual General Counsel to Populus Group LLC since July 2020. In this current role, Tara spends her time providing legal services to the Minority and Veteran privately owned staffing company to ensure they are compliant while providing opportunity for everyone to succeed. Tara recieved her law degree from University of Pennsylvania and her Undergread from Princeton University.
CCBJ: Please tell us about yourself.
Kat Stryker: I’m a 35-year-old woman living in Tacoma, WA, about to enter my 8th year of practicing law, all inhouse. Prior to entering the legal profession, my goal was to be an architect, including two years of full-time work in that field and plans to attend graduate school. But the industry and life had other plans and I ended up pivoting to law school and relocating to Seattle.
Being an in-house counsel has been a fun, unique ride. I’ve been able to support companies that are in real estate, e-discovery services and consumer products. I’m currently at Recharge Payments, an e-commerce company providing subscription analytics to businesses using the Shopify platform. For example, if you need cat litter delivered every month, there’s a company that handles that and that company may use Recharge Payments’ products to gain insights into their customers’ subscription habits.
Outside of my work, I am the secretary of the Washington State Bar’s Corporate Counsel Section. I sit on the executive committee and help plan events and host meetings (it’s a lot more fun than it sounds and I’ve met amazing people through that work). I’m also a giant nerd. I love Doctor Who, anime and Dungeons & Dragons. In fact, I met my fiancé—also an attorney—through a D&D group. I also love watching women’s basketball. Go Storm!
“Mentorship” is a term that is often bandied about. What does it mean to you and why is it important to talk about?
I have a philosophy that I try to live by and it is to make life/ work easier for those who come after me because there have been people who helped make things easier for me. That’s what mentorship means to me. It can take many forms, but it’s just relationship building and empathy in a professional context.
Mentorship, like any relationship is, like a garden. You have to water it, tend to it and care about it and it will grow.
I have found that you get out of a mentoring relationship what you put into it. In other words, frequent engagement is key.
Reminding oneself of its benefits is important. I think of it like networking. A lot of us don’t enjoy doing it, or don’t put in the time to do it—and it takes a lot more time than people think—but making connections with people, groups and institutions is not only vital to building professional relationships, but also facilitates the exchange of ideas and best practices and “open doors” to new career opportunities.
On a personal note, while I take a lot of pride in my work, I’m most proud of my soft skills, for which I owe a big thank you to my many great mentors over the years.
How has mentorship impacted your career and has it always had a positive impact?
It’s impacted my career greatly and mostly for the better. I’ve been lucky to have mentors across many different seasons of my life, including my pre-law days in the architectural world. And it was mentors that got me my first few interviews, which led to my first few internships.
When I was interviewing for an internship for my 1L summer, I was talking to a tech company. The interview went well and the hiring manager was friendly but blunt. She said, “I really like you, but you do not have the skills right now. Please reapply at the same time next year and we’ll see how you’re doing.” I reapplied, aced the interview and got the internship. That little touch point of, “You’re not ready for this, but please come back”—the straight talk to a 1L that I was punching above my weight but not to be discouraged—was the linchpin for my professional ambitions.
But have mentorships always had a positive impact? Unfortunately, no. A mentor ghosted me at a crucial point in college as I was trying to make a decision to go to grad school.
Another time, a mentor didn’t point out some of the office politicking that was going on, which led me to inadvertently put my foot in my mouth and it became a difficult situation. But there are takeaways from every experience. Even things that felt bad in the moment, with a little bit of time, reveal a lesson or understanding.
Where do you see room for improvement?
First, mentoring takes more than a once-a-quarter coffee meeting. There seems to be this thought that unless you work directly with a mentor in your day-to-day job, then you only see them intermittently—say once a quarter or as needed. I have found that you get out of a mentoring relationship what you put into it. In other words, frequent engagement is key.
And in this post-2020 world where a lot of us are working remotely, this means more video and voice calls. If you can meet up, that’s great. But otherwise, you need to apply the energy you would have devoted to an in-person meeting to virtual communications that allow you to pick up on nonverbal cues such as tone of voice and body language. Something else I’d like to mention is that mentors come and go like seasons and they’re specific in what they can offer. There are career-long mentorships, but it’s also okay to end the relationship if, for example, you have absorbed all they have to offer or have changed career direction.
We all need mentors for different things, including and perhaps most of all, outside of the law. It’s easy to become isolated as an attorney; to only network with attorneys or legal ops or other legal-adjacent folks. But I’ve found talking with non-lawyers can provide you with mentorship on the business side, especially if you’re an in-house lawyer that is used to attending only lawyer networking events. I’ve had a few mentors outside of law and they’ve offered me good negotiation insights and other helpful tips.
What qualities make a great mentor? A great mentee?
Communication and respect for one another’s time—on both ends—is the standard. Don’t show up late or be rude. Be grateful. My advice to mentors on effective communication is to be vulnerable with your mentee. Many mentors feel if they reveal their true authentic self, warts and all, they will be seen as less than. That’s just not the case. We’re all human. We all have rough edges and most of the time a good mentee wants to hear the whole truth. So don’t be afraid of that “real” talk. Let mentees know how things actually work.
For example, if you are working with a mentee, whether at a company or a firm, don’t just invite them to shadow you in a meeting about, say, pay terms. Tell them why the meeting was called and who is the person in charge of the meeting so they have the full context so they won’t think, “Oh, this just seems like a run-of-the-mill meeting,” when there’s more going on.
Also, use your own screwups as object lessons for your mentees. Tell them how you failed so they can learn from you. Don’t be afraid to be seen as imperfect. We’re all imperfect and we all continually learn from our mistakes.
Great mentees, for their part, ask detailed, specific questions. General questions are the worst because they inevitably produce the stereotypical attorney answer “It depends.” So don’t ask, “How do I break into the type of law you practice?” Instead, do your initial research and say, “I saw how you went through that gauntlet. Can you tell me about what the hiring process looked like? Can you tell me about what they asked in the interview? What work experience was helpful during that time?” Come prepared with specific questions so the mentor can offer specific advice.
Do you have any recommended sources for finding mentors, especially for lawyers just starting out?
First and foremost, connect with your alumni network. If you’re not getting the responses on LinkedIn that you would like—because the first way to get your foot in the door is simply to ask, “Hey, we have this connection. This is how we’re similar. Do you have the time?”—your law school should have some sort of center for professional development or externship office that can help with making those connections.
In addition, any sort of young lawyers division of your local bar is also a great way to meet lawyers who are new if not young. There are a lot of new lawyers for whom this is a second career, or who have taken some time off and are now back in the game. They will be able to share contacts, be like, “Hey, I’ve talked with this person, maybe you should reach out to them.”
Other than that—and here I’m kind of circling back to what I was saying about finding mentors who are not just in law—don’t be afraid to mine your connections, in finance, engineering, HR, etc. Talk to some directors if you can. See what they have to say, what advice they can give you.
I cannot overstate how important soft skills are. Being able to connect with another person in an authentic way, being able to ask them about their work, being able to empathize with what they’re trying to do at work and the problems that they’re facing—whether a product isn’t working or they’re struggling with limited resources—is paramount. There’s always something to learn, no matter where you look. It’s just a matter of putting in the effort to find who you want to talk to about those things. It really is just reaching out and, if you don’t hear back, keep reaching out. A lot of us have taken a pause on networking and relationship building because it takes time, effort and a certain vulnerability to just outright ask.
One last nugget for mentees. It’s okay that you can’t offer a mentor anything in return. We’re not expecting you to. We had people who came before us who gave us information and we couldn’t help them with anything because we were baby attorneys and the same is true with you. But before you know it, you’re going to be in their position. I didn’t realize I was going to be the person paying for coffee with 1 and 2Ls until a few years ago. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I’m that person now. I’m the one they’re reaching out to and I get to be the person giving them the real talk.”
If I could leave you with a final thought, it would be always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind.
Kat Stryker is Commercial Counsel at Recharge Payments. Before joining Recharge, Kat worked as inhouse counsel at Rad Power Bikes, Lighthouse Global and Redfin. Kat has supported the WSBA Corporate Counsel Section as an Executive Committee member since 2019 and as Secretary of the section since 2021. Kat earned her BS in Arch. Engineering Tech from the University of Cincinatti and her JD from Seattle University School of Law.
CEO: Abdi Shayesteh
HQ: New York, NY
of Employees: 33
2.94x
Description:
Provider of legal training services intended to bring legal associates to practice readiness. The company's services are designed to scale experiential learning, making it possile for firms to facilitate fast, meaningful training to their associates, enabling companies to increase associate effectiveness, drastically reduce training and development and supply costs and reduce unconscious bias.
The company raised $2.5 million of seed funding in adeal led by Bryce Catalyst on March 29, 2022. Orrick and LearnStart also participated in the round. The funds will be used to expand the company's course and platform offerings and the global market share on a lerger scale.
Source: Pitchbook (As of April 2024)
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