What did you talk about at the meeting? “There were about twenty people there, all deeply involved in the details of the Federation, and I didn’t have a clue about anything. They asked me “So, what are your plans?” And I said, “Me? None at all.” And they must have liked. I think they would have liked anything I’d said, frankly. There was no way to stop it after that. They convinced me. I didn’t even run a campaign. I went to Valladolid one day, with Matías Romo and Enrique Guerra. And that was it.” So the day of the vote arrived – and I was there, by the way, as a member of the General Assembly of the Spanish Federation, with the right to cast a vote, which I did. What do you remember about that fateful day? “During the vote there were some people had no idea who I was. Some who were sitting next to me were even saying nasty things about me.” But did they know that it was you sitting next to them? “Of course they did. That’s why they were doing it, so I would hear. I felt terrible. What had I done to deserve that? I just didn’t want to be there, in an election there was no way of winning and… But I won, by 53 votes to 58. I couldn’t believe it. I thought, “What am I supposed to do now?” When I first set foot in the federation’s offices, in Martínez Campos street, I was already the President.” What were those early days like? “They were very hard because I had two very serious problems to deal with as soon as I arrived. Celestino Fernández had received the full subsidy for 1984 and had spent it all. A few weeks later we had to go to the World Championships in Maastricht and we didn’t have any money. In the end we got a loan or the travel agency gave us credit or something and we were able to go. Then there was a big problem with the Catalan federation, which had been awarded the European Junior championships to be held in February 1985. The Catalan’s were in Celestino’s camp
and had voted against me, because my style was different and a few other things as well. They’d done some black-belt exams on their own account. I tried to stop it but they went ahead anyway. So then I tried to get the European Championships taken away from them and sent Adan Czartoryski to investigate and based on his report have grounds to take the tournament away from me. How naïve I was. Adan came back to tell me that they’d organise everything brilliantly, but even so I took the tournament from them. In the end it was held in Madrid, at the Palacio de Deportes, which was a bit of a mixed blessing, but anyway…. What happened was that a war then broke out. A coordinating committee was set up in Catalonia and the truth is that it worked very well for a long time, but there were all sorts of problems.” Yes, I remember. You were very “popular” there for a time. I remember once seeing some placards about you at some championship in Barcelona, which weren’t very flattering, let’s say. “I can’t remember how we sorted it out eventually.” Was Josep Bosch involved back then? He’s still around today. “Well, back then Casanova was in charge, until 1986, and Bosch has been the President since then. He's a bit… well, let’s say he likes to do things his own way.” Then the problems, which never end, became all about the Japanese masters in Spain, who until then had wielded a lot of power in karate, for obvious reasons, but you, as the new president of the Spanish Federation, starting trimming them back. “In 1984 there were Japanese people, like Yasunari Ishimi, who had a lot of power. You might even go so far as to say that they could make or break a President if they wanted to. By 1988 it was no longer like that and now practically nothing at all, as you know. Things have changed a lot. There was one thing that happened in 1988 that was the key moment. It brought me into conflict a couple of times with Antonio Torres, over the Ishimi
business. That was a turning point in the extent of the Japanese influence on karate in Spain. That was the end of it. I understood that it wasn‘t appropriate any more. I mean that with all due respect, but something had to change. It had been accepted in its day, but it was no longer appropriate. I respected him a lot, and a couple of years ago I was at the tribute event that was organised for him.” Yes, and at a very difficult time for him personally. “Yes. I'm the first to acknowledge everything the Japanese have done for karate but they were influencing things that I didn’t think they should any more. They didn’t want to lose that power. They were forced. Now I think their position is the right one and that’s good for karate, to make it more universal. And I think I’ve played a role there. Karate has a different feel from how it would have been otherwise.” I agree with you because the Federation is sports-based (if it was based on traditional karate it’d be something else entirely). What I’m not sure I agree with you on is how some key figures in the history of karate in Spain have been forgotten, like Tino Fernández, Adam Czartoryski and people. History is history. What about Faustino Soria’s time at the head of the Spanish and IberoAmerican Federations? Tell us about that? “It wasn’t a very happy period in terms of my relationship with the Spanish Federation, because I don’t think Faustino ever felt he was able to step outside my shadow. I never wanted to impose a candidate after my presidency, but I was the one who suggested Faustino. I first thought of him in 1996. I had some doubts at the beginning between him or Enrique Guerra, but in the end, as Faustino lived in Madrid and had been with me on my team for eight years, as director of the national degrees board, I thought he was the right person. I don’t know whether I made the right choice or not. You never know with these things what would have happened