119-WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims

WE GET AROUND NETWORK WGAN-TV Live at 5

9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims Thursday, September 30, 2021

WGAN-TV Guest I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants | Chicago

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago jonathan-sabath-5271708

jonathan-sabath-5271708

WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims Guest: Sabath Property Damage Consultants Claims Adjuster, Xactimate and Matterport Estimator Jonathan Sabath | Thursday, 30 September 2021 | Episode: 119

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:00:03] Dan Smigrod: -Hi all. I’m Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum. Today is Thursday, September 30, 2021, and you’re watching WGAN-TV Live at 5. We have an awesome show for you today: 9 Benefits of Matterport for Large Property Damage Insurance Claims. Here to talk to us about it is Jonathan Sabath, Claims Adjuster, Xactimate and Matterport estimator for [00:00:33] Dan Smigrod: Sabath Property Damage Consultants in the Greater Chicago area. Hey Jon, good to see you.

[00:00:39] Jonathan Sabath:

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

-Hi Dan. Thanks for having me.

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:00:41] Dan Smigrod: -Thanks for being on the show, Jon. Before we jump into today’s topic, how about giving us an overview of Sabath Property Damage Consultants?

[00:00:54] Jonathan Sabath: -We’re a building property damage consulting firm that specializes in insurance claims.

Typically we’ll be sent out when there’s a fire or flood. Our main commercial base is carriers and contractors and restoration companies. Few individuals do call us direct and we can act as a public adjuster or just write the claim for them as well.

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:01:19] Dan Smigrod: -What would be the sweet spot for Sabath Property Damage Consultants: the kind of projects that you work on?

[00:01:25] Jonathan Sabath: -Mostly fires, big property damage claims. Fires mostly, then would come collapses and water damage claims.

[00:01:33] Dan Smigrod: -This is in the Greater Chicago area?

[00:01:36] Jonathan Sabath:

-Correct. But I do go across the nation.

[00:01:39] Dan Smigrod: -Interesting and awesome. By the end of today’s show Jon, I want to feel like that we understand the story of how Matterport helps insurance adjusters and insurance companies communicate a new collaborative ways to accelerate insurance claims. In addition to that, I would like for Matterport Service Providers to feel like they understand who are the stakeholders involved in fire, [00:02:15] Dan Smigrod: flood, wind, damage insurance claims and how best to reach out to them. That’s our goal by the end of today’s show. Why don’t we begin perhaps with the workflow of a large fire of a commercial space in the Greater Chicago area. How does that project begin? What’s your workflow? Particularly interested, obviously, in how Matterport fits into that workflow.

[00:02:50] Jonathan Sabath: -Well, typically I’ll be contacted by a vendor. For instance, a restoration company, Pure Clean, ServiceMaster, Fire Pros: there’s a whole bunch of them. I will be sent out to inspect the claim. When I get to the scene, depending on the complexity of the claim, I usually gear towards Matterporting first. The most important thing you can do in an insurance claim is document the claim before things get moved around. Once it’s moved out of the house, you’ve lost it, you can’t capture it.

[00:03:21] Jonathan Sabath: To automate that is crucial. When I walk onto a scene, it’s total chaos. There’s people asking me questions out of the blue. Nobody knows anything about insurance claims. They have a million questions. There’s things that need to be done for safety, for lighting, so on and so forth. I have to quickly assess that. Part of my job when I write an insurance estimate is to take pictures, document the claim, measure the wall surfaces, and the Matterport camera does that automatically. I can run the Matterport camera in [00:03:54] Jonathan Sabath: the background and answer anybody’s questions and talk to him while I’m doing it. It gives me an opportunity to do some one-on-one with the people that are concerned, that are in the mix. It’s really great.

[00:04:08] Dan Smigrod: -Forgive me for interrupting.

[00:04:13] Dan Smigrod: What I’d like to understand is, I believe, you’ve been in this space as a subject matter expert for 25+ years.

[00:04:22] Jonathan Sabath:

-I have.

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:04:22] Dan Smigrod: -How was the documentation previously done and what problem is Matterport solving versus that previous workflow for you?

[00:04:33] Jonathan Sabath: Do we remember what film used to look like? Just that alone is a big difference. Even with digital cameras, every time you take a picture, you have to put the scene together and take a proper picture. With Matterport, it picks it up for you. It’s just instantaneous. It’s that much of a difference. It’s night and day. Where I would spend an hour or two hours taking pictures, now I spend 90 minutes with the Matterport camera.

[00:05:05] Jonathan Sabath: I don’t have to go back and measure. That’s done for me. That’s another 90 minutes to an hour. I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous.

It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands because I can look at the claim virtually are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as and write it at home. Keeps me out of the robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s [00:05:36] Jonathan Sabath: is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy. Just for that reason alone.

[00:05:43] Dan Smigrod: -You show up on a site, fire damage, Chicago, likely cold, no lights, talk a little bit. Pardon?

[00:05:55] Jonathan Sabath:

hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

-No floors sometimes.

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[00:05:56] Dan Smigrod: -No floors. In your mind perhaps imagine a fire claim that you did documentation on when you began with Matterport, what’s happening? Maybe what I’m looking for is what’s different than doing a Matterport scan of a home for sale? I imagine there’s some things that are different because of the environment that you’re doing a Matterport scan.

[00:06:24] Jonathan Sabath: -When you’re doing a scan for an insurance claim, you’re capturing data. When you’re doing a scan for a virtual walk-through, you’re creating a virtual person that’s walking through the home. That’s the difference. Typically in an insurance claim where there’s debris all over, I’m forced to do twice as many, maybe more scans, more is better than less, more scans. I typically would do for a real estate listing, which I do on occasion as well.

[00:06:54] Jonathan Sabath: Things aren’t staged at all. Everything is chaotic. It’s a whole different animal. It’s chaotic. Sometimes there’s floors missing, so I have to figure out how to capture that area safely with limited access from the camera. That’s really what it is.

[00:07:11] Dan Smigrod: -What kind of lighting.

[00:07:12] Jonathan Sabath: Page 4 of 26

-More complex.

WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:07:13] Dan Smigrod: -Are you just bringing in Home Depot flood lighting or lights attached to your camera?

[00:07:22] Jonathan Sabath: -It depends. When you go through a fire claim, there’s usually a cause of the fire and sometimes you’re restricted from going into certain areas because the insurance company has the right to do a ‘cause and origin’ in case there’s subrogation, let’s say the cell phone charger overheated and caused the fire.

Well, they have to rule out everything else and prove that the cell phone charger did it. You may be restricted from going in certain areas with the Matterport camera and with yourself and that’s hard to get around sometimes.

[00:07:57] Jonathan Sabath: You don’t see that normally. When you do a real estate listing, you have total access. As far as lighting goes, I carry my own lights. The one good thing about the Matterport cameras, I put a light right on top of it, a big pano light. It spins around it, it’s like daylight. I don’t need to have individual lighting. In fact, I usually unplug if somebody runs what we call stringers, which are those cage lights on a generator. I’ll turn them off because it interferes ...

[00:08:27] Dan Smigrod: -You bring in a generator with you?

[00:08:28] Jonathan Sabath:

-I usually don’t. I don’t need it.

[00:08:32] Dan Smigrod: -They’re battery operated lights?

[00:08:35] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yes. My pano light is robust and it last long time.

[00:08:38] Dan Smigrod: -Just as a side note, you mentioned subrogation. Can you tell us what that means?

[00:08:42] Jonathan Sabath: -Insurance companies will actually sue somebody who they think is liable to cause the damage. If you have somebody working on your house, typically hire a plumber, thawing out on a frozen pipe and the house catches fire or a roofer that’s heating something up, they’ll go after that roofer’s liability coverage, and that’s called subrogation.

[00:09:03] Dan Smigrod: -If I owned a home, I might get reimbursed by the insurance company for my damage but they’re actually chasing after other people or companies that might have actually caused the damage.

[00:09:15] Jonathan Sabath: -Correct. You’re what’s called a first-party claimant. When you subrogate, that’s a third-party claim. Liability claims are third-party claims. The party that is paying the damage has no interest in the party they’re paying the damage to. Your insurance carrier, they’re you’re their customer.

[00:09:37] Jonathan Sabath: You give an insurance carrier the right of subrogation when you make a claim, otherwise, they don’t have to pay you for the claim. That’s how it’s worded in your policy in layman’s terms.

[00:09:45] Dan Smigrod: -Great. Thank you for helping us understand that. Boots? Special clothing?

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:09:54] Jonathan Sabath: -Sure. Full PPE. Minimum is respirator. We’re breathing in heavy metals, dioxins, fiberglass floating in the air. Sometimes asbestos lead that’s been aerialized. Particles of incomplete combustion.

They’re very hazardous.

[00:10:14] Dan Smigrod: -Full PPE. One other question about the gear. Any risks to your camera? I imagine you’re in soot, camera got a fan?

[00:10:28] Jonathan Sabath: -I’ve been running this camera that I have now for three years straight and I’ve done over 300 scans in burnt-out buildings. The inside of the camera when the fan is going, outside in the house, it smells like smoke. It’s pulling it in there, but it seems to be robust enough to handle it.

[00:10:47] Dan Smigrod: -I’m sorry. This is a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera that you’re using?

[00:10:53] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yes, I’m using a Matterport Pro2.

[00:10:54] Dan Smigrod: -Awesome. Do you have to worry about when you bring the camera home and you’re doing something with it, turning it on and soot coming out of the camera?

[00:11:06] Jonathan Sabath: -No. I’m like the typical fireman. I’ll go in the house without a respirator when I shouldn’t. It’s macho.

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:11:15] Dan Smigrod: -You’ve now done this, you’ve done the Matterport scan; and it sounds you probably have taken twice as many spins around with the camera, that you might do if you are Matterport Service Provider doing a residential house for sale. Does that mean you’re putting the camera down low? It might go high? There’s things that you’re looking to have.

[00:11:39] Jonathan Sabath: -When I do a residential scan, I typically keep the camera at eye-level height, above four feet. When I’m scanning property damage, I keep it at the middle. Depending on my ceiling height, if it’s an eight-foot ceiling the camera’s about at four feet. I use them like that because there’s more damage actually below a lot of times than there is above.

[00:12:03] Dan Smigrod: -Having been lucky enough to have had three floods in our home, I’ve experienced this process of Xactimate. Are you doing any of that on-site?

[00:12:13] Jonathan Sabath:

-The measuring?

[00:12:15] Dan Smigrod: -Any measuring that you’re doing? Any creation of an Xactimate on-site?

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:12:21] Jonathan Sabath: -My workflow is do the scan, and I’ll pick up the measurements and the photography for me. Then I’ll go back through the building and I’ll make some scope notes. There’s things that I know that I can’t see with Matterport and there are things that are easier for me to measure, like countertops and cabinets and counting the poles on the cabinets. I mean, everything we do. Every little minutia is a line item in Xactimate. That’s how I start. I have a workflow. I start at the top and I work my way down.

[00:12:54] Jonathan Sabath:

Generally, I start with the ceiling and work my way to the floor.

[00:12:59] Dan Smigrod: -Does that include in scanning? Because generally, for scanning the house we start in the basement we work our way up. Do you actually start in the attic and work your way down?

[00:13:06] Jonathan Sabath: -No, in the individual rooms. I like to start low and go up. I like to go upstairs rather than downstairs with the camera. That works best. I always start if I can, in the basement first and then go up.

[00:13:18] Dan Smigrod: -Oh, basement first. But as you’re taking notes, you’re scanning the ceiling and how it’s connected to the wall, and is there trim? Are there ducts? Is there ductwork and whatever else visually you can see that you may not see within the Matterport scans?

[00:13:37] Jonathan Sabath: -Outwards. Things behind the wall. Think about what’s in your kitchen. What’s behind the refrigerator? There’s an outlet back there. What’s behind the range? There’s an outlet back there you can’t see that with a Matterport camera because there’s stuff in the way. There’s typically a bunch of debris in the way; their stuff on the floor. I may not even be able to see the floor when I walk into a room. That’s one thing I think about too, when I walk in there with the Matterport camera, if I can’t see the floor cleared away so I can at least see a part of the floor. When I look at the product later on down the road, [00:14:10] Jonathan Sabath: I can say, “Yeah, that’s a tiled floor that was in there” then I get a sample of it. How much is it worth? That thing.

[00:14:16] Dan Smigrod: -Are you taking any additional pictures either with a cell phone or camera other than Matterport?

[00:14:24] Jonathan Sabath: -One of the favorite techniques that I like to use, that I haven’t seen a lot of people do is stick the camera up in the attic and just do a 360. I don’t need the virtual walkthrough of the attic space. I know the measurements of the attic space. But it’s always good to have a picture. The 4K visuals that come off a Matterport are just terrific. That’s the easiest thing to do. I literally, I stand on the ground floor. I stick the tripod up in the air and let it do its 360s and I’m good to go.

[00:14:56] Jonathan Sabath:

I might do it in a couple of different places.

[00:14:58] Dan Smigrod: -All your photography is actually through Matterport.

[00:15:03] Jonathan Sabath: -A couple of exceptions if I really zoom in on something close to show an adjuster, I’ll get that on my camera and do that. Exteriors, I do a mixture of Matterports and maybe a hover or an eagle view type situation.

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:15:18] Dan Smigrod: -You now go back to your office?

[00:15:23] Jonathan Sabath:

-I go back to my office.

[00:15:24] Dan Smigrod: -Pick it up from there, if you would.

[00:15:26] Jonathan Sabath: I’ll go back to my office after the scan processes, the very first thing I do is order the floor plan. The floor plan is the most cost-effective way to sketch with Xactimate. It’s less than $20. Actually, that’s a good topic to talk about too. Recently, Matterport just created an option where you can get an expedited floor plan where traditionally it was only available within 24-48 hours. You can get it for it in eight hours.

[00:15:57] Jonathan Sabath: That floor plan is something that you can drag into Xactimate and use as an underlay. I can draw my rooms over the floor plan. If you have a complex structure with a lot of angled walls and stuff or a curved wall which would be traditionally really hard to measure with a laser measuring device, you’re looking at it from the top down and you just tracing over it. All these scans that I’ve done and I’ve created, we call this sketch in Matterport that’s the term that goes into computer. It’s basically you’re creating a sketch in a 3D model of [00:16:30] Jonathan Sabath: the house that you can add components to or take components of it. Everyone that I’ve done for a large loss carrier, some of them are actually buying the Matterport TruePlans, but everyone that I’ve sketched they don’t buy them off me, but they’ll take my sketch and just use it.

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:16:46] Dan Smigrod: -You’ve covered a lot there. Let me see if I can break that down. First, I think of Matterport floor plans is something that you order after the Matterport tour has been processed.

[00:16:58] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yes.

[00:17:00] Dan Smigrod: -Then you’re ordering the Matterport floor plan, I think of that 2D schematic floor plan is typically costing $14.99.

[00:17:09] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yeah.

[00:17:10] Dan Smigrod: -Let’s call it $15. How much more do you pay to have it expedited?

[00:17:17] Jonathan Sabath: Page 8 of 26

-Just recently I did one floor and it cost me $20.

WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:17:20] Dan Smigrod: -$20 instead of $15?

[00:17:22] Jonathan Sabath:

-Instead in $12.99. Because I have a bigger account than you, I guess.

[00:17:26] Dan Smigrod: -Yes, you do. I only have a Pro business account. My floor plans are $14.99. Great, so total of not $20 additional but for total of $20.... Is there a limit on size on that or?

[00:17:46] Jonathan Sabath:

-I haven’t figured that out yet, I don’t think so.

[00:17:50] Dan Smigrod: -Let’s call it $20.

[00:17:51] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yeah.

[00:17:51] Dan Smigrod: -You order the floor plan, the Matterport 2D schematic floor plan. Now, you mentioned Matterport TruePlan which is the solution that Matterport offers to be able to import into Xactimate. Are you using the Matterport TruePlan to create your Xactimate for insurance claim documentation? Or are you starting with the 2D Matterport schematic floor plan?

[00:18:22] Jonathan Sabath: -I’m a pretty fluent sketcher when it comes to Xactimate. I like to do my own, especially with complex ceilings, trace ceilings and multiple angles ceilings, and whatnot. I’ll do it on my own. But if I’m pressed for time, it’s a much larger expense to have TruePlan do the sketch for you. To be honest, I’m not 100 percent sure their accuracy, is just me. It’s nothing to do with Matterport. I’m sure they’re accurate in every single one I’ve touched.

[00:18:54] Jonathan Sabath: Is I just I know more about how buildings are put together and I know how I want to show it to the adjuster, so I prefer to draw it. Now as a sidebar, I had been working with Farmers Insurance. They’re running a trial program right now where they want to produce the photographs, the sketch and hand it to the adjuster on a silver platter. Where all he has to do is go to the loss, do a visual inspection, make a scope notes, and then he can work off of the same sketch that he can share if he chooses with everybody else.

[00:19:25] Jonathan Sabath: The sketch in Matterport is called an ESX file. That’s the term that you may hear from other providers and other vendors. I need the ESX file for that claim. Most of the insurance carriers here in Chicago, the large loss carriers will use my ESX file and add to or take away from it to produce their actual estimate that they have to provide.

[00:19:50] Dan Smigrod: -I lost you there. A., D as in David, S as in Sam, X is in X-Ray? [00:19:56] Jonathan Sabath: ...

-No, E as an epsilon, S as in Sabath, X is in X-Ray: ESX. It’s the same as that PDF but

[00:20:07] Dan Smigrod: -Got it. S is in Sabath I like that. When you create your Xactimate sketch from a Matterport 2D schematic floor plan, what do you paid $20 for? Are you just sketching on top of?

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:20:27] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yeah.

[00:20:30] Dan Smigrod: -Is there a format that you’re importing into?

[00:20:34] Jonathan Sabath: -Matterport will produce the floor plan. They give you a PDF. They give you some SVG files, I believe, which is Scalable Vector Graphics or something. They will also give you PNGs, which is a type of JPEG. Xactimate will allow you to import the PNG files. Typically you load it up onto Xactimate and it tells you to draw a line between two points. Guess what Matterport does for you. Every floor plan and every room has two arrows and the width [00:21:08] Jonathan Sabath: or the length of the room is provided for you. You just put the line between the two arrows on the floor plan, type in what the number is for the width of the room, and that sets your scale.

[00:21:22] Dan Smigrod: -This is a really critical point and I totally missed it. How are you setting the scale? Because I presume the floor plan, the 2D schematic floor plan, is not necessarily accurate, so you actually have to true it up to what the real width was.

[00:21:40] Jonathan Sabath: -That’s not true, the floor plan is to scale.

What we’re doing is we’re matching the scale of the floor plan.

We’re telling Xactimate what the scale is, we’re matching one foot in Xactimate to one foot on the floor plan and that’s why you draw a line. If the room is 10’ by 12’... There’ll be an arrow and that’ll be your 10’ length and I draw a line between the two points, type in 10’ and Xactimate knows the scale for the whole drawing.

[00:22:09] Dan Smigrod: -Awesome. Okay, great. You finish your Xactimate. Am I going too fast on that? Okay. You finish your Xactimate. Then what is the next step in this property damage insurance claim process with either Matterport photos... Talk a little bit more about the digital assets that you’re creating, perhaps in addition to the Xactimate that you just created.

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:22:36] Jonathan Sabath: -That’s a good question. In Xactimate we add in line items. Typically, I’ll have categories, walls and ceilings, finishes, floors, etc. In each category, I’ll be putting in line items. In a ceiling, you start with insulation, whether it’s insulation above. Then what are you doing to the joists above, are you cleaning, I’m I resealing, and do they need to be replaced? All that. I may have to add a picture to it, why am I replacing the choice?

[00:23:07] Jonathan Sabath: Well, that’s a good opportunity for me to take a picture right there in Matterport and download it and then make an F9 note referring to that picture. The adjuster sees what my scope is. Why am I putting that in there? I just did one where the restoration company as a water damage claim, they accidentally during demo broke some tiles on the floor. Tile was fine, the tile gets wet and you can clean it up but they broke some tiles. While I’m going through at the Matterport camera, I didn’t even see it when I was there. I saw it with the Matterport camera on my desk while I was looking at it.

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:23:39] Jonathan Sabath: I just took a picture of it, attached it to an F9 note, so that the adjuster could see it and refer to it, and that’s my workflow. As I’m going through components of the building, there’s certain things that are just a given, when we’re replacing drywall, of course you’re going to paint it. If you’ve got some specialty ceiling or real intricate crown molding or something you’re going to want to picture of it because insurance companies are data-driven, the more data you give them, the better it is. In my eyes, the best thing you can do is get the adjuster all the [00:24:11] Jonathan Sabath: ammunition he needs to put in the file so that if he ever gets audited, he doesn’t have to sit down and explain themselves. It’s all there in black and white.

[00:24:20] Dan Smigrod: -Matterport Notes. Does that fit into what you do?

[00:24:24] Jonathan Sabath: -I haven’t gotten into Matterport Notes. MatterTags, yeah. Matterport Notes. I’m going to start using those for communicating with the insurance as we do the construction on the projects. What do you think you want to do with this room? There’s actually some ways where you can stage a room and virtually draw the kitchen. You could send that to the homeowner in the Matterport eventually and they’ll be able to look at and say, “Okay, fine, I think that’ll work good.”

[00:24:55] Jonathan Sabath: Allowing the homeowners to measure spaces while they’re searching for window treatments, cabinets, and knowing how much space they have and how that’s going to work out. That’s great for Matterport and that’s one thing that Matterport Notes will help with tremendously. It’s just a way of communicating and with adjusters too. I haven’t had a chance to do it with adjusters, that’s just now coming up to speed as more and more of the carriers allow their adjusters to link up to a Matterport.

[00:25:26] Dan Smigrod: -MatterTags. How are you using Matterport MatterTags in that property damage insurance claim process?

[00:25:34] Jonathan Sabath: -They’re the best thing for before and after, and in the middle. People think about an insurance plan. You want pictures of after, and maybe you want pictures of before. But what happens in the middle? When the place is demoed out, we typically find more damage and we start writing supplements.

That’s a great opportunity to run the camera through again. It’s also a good idea to do because when the walls are closed up all the sudden you have somebody say, “Well, what did you do behind a wall?” You can show them before the walls closed you have a Matterport scan of it.

[00:26:06] Jonathan Sabath: Those MatterTags allow you to link up between scans, it’s called a Matterport Deep Link.

You can be watching the before scan, click on the MatterTag and for marketing for instance. How did the house look after we were done? It takes you right to the after scan and you can see the finished work product. It’s a great communication tool and I think that’s what they built into Matterport that makes it more robust than a lot of different ways of doing it. There’s a lot of features.

[00:26:36] Dan Smigrod: -You now have a Matterport tour, an Xactimate plan.

[00:26:43] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yeah.

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:26:44] Dan Smigrod: -Photos that are annotated within Xactimate. MatterTags that may be the before and the middle of the same space. Now what happens with all these digital assets? Who are the stakeholders and how are they using what you’ve now created?

[00:27:08] Jonathan Sabath: -That’s a good question. Typically the adjusters, their mindset is what they want to pay.

There’s no adjuster out there who doesn’t want to pay the claim, it’s harder not to pay a claim. But they have to have digital evidence of why they paid the claim because their job is at stake. A lot of things can go wrong if they don’t document their claims correctly. As far as I’m concerned, I use it to build my estimate.

[00:27:39] Jonathan Sabath: That’s what I use the digital assets for. A lot of times I’ll go back and refer to something and the adjuster will call me up. Why’d you put that in there? I don’t see evidence of it. It’s a good way for me to go back and revisit the house or the business instead of going all the way back over there. Typically, in the past we had to reinspect with I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene the adjuster. Now we can do it virtual, I can get the adjuster on because I can look at the claim virtually the phone and we can do a virtual inspection instead of doing it, and write it at home. Keeps me out of the if that answers your question. hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s [00:28:10] Dan Smigrod: -I’ve heard, I wanted to say, the insurance carrier, who else is looking at this? Is there a general contractor?

[00:28:20] Jonathan Sabath: -The homeowners, the actual contractor on the job. A lot of times I’m not the general contractor, sometimes I am. A lot of times I’m not, I’m working for the general contractor. They’re going to take the digital assets and they’re going to sit down with the homeowners and use that as a guideline. What are we doing with the budget we created with the insurance claim? That’s really what the insurance proceeds tend to be. It’s more of a budget than a roadmap of what you’re doing.

hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:28:50] Dan Smigrod: -I feel like we’ve gotten a little bit too fast because it sounds like what happened is you’ve submitted your documentation to ... Is your client in this case. Is it the insurance company?

[00:29:08] Jonathan Sabath: -Yeah, it could be, but most of the time it’s the vendor working for the insurance company or the homeowners or an independent vendor that’s not working for the insurance company.

[00:29:17] Dan Smigrod: -All three of those examples, the homeowner.

[00:29:25] Jonathan Sabath:

-Restoration company.

[00:29:26] Dan Smigrod: -Restoration company, [00:29:28] Jonathan Sabath: Page 12 of 26

-The insurance adjuster.

WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:29:30] Dan Smigrod: -The insurance adjuster need to submit your documentation, which is now their documentation to the insurance company that’s insured the property.

[00:29:42] Jonathan Sabath: -The insurance adjuster and I work together to produce a budget for the insurance.

We’re working on what needs to be done to put the place back correctly.

[00:29:54] Dan Smigrod: -Here’s where I’m going with that. Let’s just pick a number and say, based on your adjustment, that property has $200,000 worth of damage. That’s what your documentation is ultimately going to show the insurance company that they need to reimburse the general contractor who’s going to bring the property back to where it was?

[00:30:18] Jonathan Sabath:

-Correct.

[00:30:21] Dan Smigrod: -Does the insurance company always look at what you’ve done in say, “Jon, that’s great. Yeah, $200,000. Let’s move forward.”

[00:30:31] Jonathan Sabath:

-More often than not, believe it or not. I even surprise myself sometimes.

[00:30:36] Dan Smigrod: -Okay. The level of detail. I don’t want to dismiss your expertise of 25 years.

[00:30:45] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yeah.

[00:30:46] Dan Smigrod: -But is that in part because your documentation.

[00:30:49] Jonathan Sabath: -It is a 100 percent because it’s being documented. That’s the whole point. You document it correctly, your claim is your claim. I make a couple mistakes and maybe I might ask for something that’s a reach, let’s say because I’m not sure I’m on the fence. I would rather put it out there, and have the adjustment and I have a discussion about. What’s the best thing to do? What techniques are you using to mitigate the damage? Are you just sealing the wall or cleaning it? You need to use a different technique? That’s usually what if we argue, [00:31:21] Jonathan Sabath:

we’ll argue over that or have a discussion about it. Shouldn’t be an argument.

[00:31:25] Dan Smigrod: -Okay.

[00:31:25] Jonathan Sabath: -The Matterport allows us not to fight. The Matterport makes it black and white. Here it is.

Here’s what I’m talking about. Look at it.

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[00:31:33] Dan Smigrod: -That’s what I’m trying to get to is to say, if you were just doing photos and you’re missing a picture, in your case, you could always go back to Matterport to find a picture, that’s going to tell the story to backup what you’ve indicated within your Xactimate. Help me out here. There’s two layers of paint. There’s dry wall, there is insulation, behind the insulation, there’s brick. There’s all kinds of stuff, electrical, [00:32:06] Dan Smigrod: plumbing, things in the ceiling, lights, fixtures, wiring, conduit. All that stuff. Is a combination of the documentation and what you write up to say, “Well, that’s like 27 things just in that one spot, that I would look at and go, oh, you just need to paint the wall.” And you said, “No, we need to take the entire wall down and behind that wall is all this other stuff. “ I’m trying to get, I don’t know what the right word, is it?

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene [00:32:38] Jonathan Sabath:

-There’s a lot of details.

[00:32:39] Dan Smigrod: -Is it the truth? It’s a common ...

[00:32:44] Jonathan Sabath:

-Veracity. Veracity.

[00:32:49] Dan Smigrod: -What does that mean?

because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:32:50] Jonathan Sabath:

-The truthfulness of the claim.

[00:32:52] Dan Smigrod: -Veracity: the truthfulness of the claim. So what Matterport is helping you do for your clients – which might be the homeowner or the remediation, renovation company, or the general contractor, or the insurance adjuster is to be able to get to the truth so that when it’s eventually goes to the insurance company, they’ll go, “You want $200,000? Yeah. We would agree that’s $200,000. Proceed”.

[00:33:22] Jonathan Sabath: -Yeah. We’re usually talking about minutia. Believe it or not. We pretty much know the overall scope of damage when we look at a house. It’s got a roof that’s burn through... The roof has to go back.

But when you’re looking at individual fixtures, and the price of those fixtures, and the quality of those fixtures, there’s different categories. And to have a picture like a door handle, a door knob. If it’s a knob, that’s just an average grade, a knob and exactly made if it has a lever handle, that’s an upgrade.

[00:33:52] Dan Smigrod: -Yes. [00:33:53] Jonathan Sabath: and you’re done.

-Do you have a picture of the door at the lever handle then you can show the adjuster

[00:33:56] Dan Smigrod: -Yes. The nickname for our home is, my wife and I called it... Everybody’s got a name me. I got a name for your boat. We have a name for our house. It’s called, Builder’s Grade. ;-) So it’s harder for us to, on our claims, they asked for something maybe a little bit fancier because truly everything built, that it Builder’s Grade. I haven’t heard you mentioned the word law, legal, lawsuit.

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[00:34:25] Jonathan Sabath: -Other than subrogation? On occasion, I may asked as an expert witness, and I haven’t had a chance to yet, but I’ve heard from... I’m friends with Ed Eschoo and some of the people over at Childress and Chip Merlin’s law firm. They’re being allowed to use Matterport as evidence in court where traditionally, digital photography was never allowed, admissible in court because it could be manipulated and altered. The beauty of Matterport is, [00:34:55] Jonathan Sabath: there’s a third-party that is just processing it and it’s not being manipulated by the person taking the pictures, so it’s been a helpful tool. Even just visually explaining. You have that different perspective that a 3D perspective of loss. Where you’re looking at the dollhouse view. It’s just tremendous, it just helps out a lot.

[00:35:19] Dan Smigrod: -Are there other stakeholders that are involved in this process that we haven’t talked about?

[00:35:26] Jonathan Sabath: -Well, if you’re doing subrogation, the people that are getting sued and they’re entitled to the Matterport scan, too. The whole points...

[00:35:34] Dan Smigrod: -Do you get to charge them for that?

[00:35:37] Jonathan Sabath:

-I can try, but if somebody doesn’t contract me directly, how can I charge them?

[00:35:41] Dan Smigrod: -No. I’m just curious, meaning you get to charge your client. All of a sudden somebody else needs the same documentation. Is that just part of, well, that’s what you do?

[00:35:50] Jonathan Sabath: -Well, I would ask permission from whoever hired me, but if they could do it, and it’s really their product. If I’m hired by somebody else, it’s their product to buy or to sell to somebody else if they want, not mine.

[00:36:05] Dan Smigrod: -Subrogation takes place. There’s now a perhaps, there may – or may not – be a lawsuit. I could imagine one might say, that if you’re doing the subrogation and there’s a third-party that might be liable, that the Matterport tour might help tell that story better in order to not actually have to have a lawsuit take place?

[00:36:25] Jonathan Sabath: -Well, there’s more to a lawsuit than just who’s liable, who isn’t liable. Once you get past that point of it. In Illinois, typically, liability is on a percentage. Nobody is truly 100 percent liable all by itself proportioned out. But how much does it damage? What if there’s a disagreement in damage? Well, you’ve got more documentation than you would normally have. You can see a picture of a TV on the screen and we’re in a photograph. Typically, I couldn’t really tell what size TV screen that was, [00:36:58] Jonathan Sabath: on Matterport you can measure it, and you can see it, so 36” screen or whatever. It helps a lot. It’s more detailed.

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[00:37:07] Dan Smigrod: -If this is beyond your scope, just tell me, but I’m just curious if if the Matterport tour ends up going through this process of subrogation to some other company, that might have been liable. We were talking about the plumber puts a hole through a pipe and all of a sudden that causes a gas leak, and all of a sudden there’s a fire or whatever it might be. Is there – we agree that the plumbing company is liable, [00:37:40] Dan Smigrod: but we think your claim for $200,000 is way over, and we’ve taken the same documentation you’ve done, and we think it’s actually – Is the Matterport used in that way? Have you run into that?

[00:37:55] Jonathan Sabath: -Just as visual documentation, the same as I would ask any insurance company to pay for something. That’s only way it would be used. They’d be relying on somebody like me, an expert who is a building construction expert like me. Tell them what the damage is. They would probably listen to a couple of 3-4 people and just do whatever the average was.

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene [00:38:16] Dan Smigrod: -Okay. I’ve heard you’ve done more than 300 Matterport scans.

[00:38:24] Dan Smigrod: In fact, let me run through. When we began the show with: 9 Benefits of Matterport for Large Property Damage Insurance Claims. Let me go through each one .. that we identified prior to the show and maybe that’ll answer my questions.

For example, is there: 1) less time?

[00:38:46] Jonathan Sabath: -Yes. It’s more efficient, it’s faster, you do more than one thing at a time in less time.

because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:38:56] Dan Smigrod: -This less time mean? Does it mean less time to do the documentation? Is it less time to get the insurance company to agree to the claim? Is it less time to get the insurance company to send money?

[00:39:13] Jonathan Sabath: -I imagine, it affects everything? But no. What you’re talking about is less time on-site.

The less exposure you have in a hazardous situation like a fire. What happens after a fire or even a flood with mold and mildew? The better off you are. If you can be in there, and get out, and work in a clean safe environment, that’s what Matterport allows you to do.

[00:39:36] Dan Smigrod: -First is, less time on-site regarding documentation versus what the process would be if you weren’t doing Matterport?

[00:39:45] Jonathan Sabath:

-Less time and along with that, better documentation and more documentation.

[00:39:51] Dan Smigrod: -Let’s call that: 2) more detail. Can you speak to more detail? Maybe that’s you were talking about a little bit earlier, but it summarize more detail?

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:40:01] Jonathan Sabath:

-A lot more detail.

[00:40:05] Jonathan Sabath: I pick up things in the Matterport scan that I don’t see when I’m on-site. You’re too distracted when you’re on-site during a chaotic insurance claim, even during a real estate listing where you’re doing a virtual walk-through. Sometimes, I’ll go back through a scan and afterwards I’ll say, I better go and rescan that because it doesn’t look right. Here you picked up some detail like bathroom door that’s open, the toilet lid was up, or something like that, so I’ll go back and fix it. But typically, [00:40:39] Jonathan Sabath:

it allows me to pick up the quality of the components of the house better than...

[00:40:45] Dan Smigrod: -When I hear more detail, I actually hear two things. One is actually what you were expecting to scan and have the level of detail either for constructing your Xactimate or for doing your estimating, but actually, more detail in details that you might not even have noticed when you’re on site. But go, “Wow! Look at that. I hadn’t noticed that when I was on site, but I see that in the Matterport.

[00:41:11] Jonathan Sabath: -Especially; if think about a fire where the ceiling is black and you’ve got a medallion.

You know what a medallion is above a light fixture?

[00:41:19] Dan Smigrod: -No. [00:41:20] Jonathan Sabath: -It’s like a circle attached to the plaster of the drywall to decorative object like a relief.

You might miss that because it’s dark, it’s black, you might not even see it. It’s a couple of $100 item that you would leave off your estimate. Couple of $100 is a lot of money for some people. Things like that you always pick up in Matterport, intricate trim on a door like cliff blocks, and so on, and you can pick that up.

[00:41:51] Dan Smigrod: -Cool. 9 Benefits of Matterport for Large Property Damage Insurance Claims: 3) 24/7 access to stakeholders. Who needs to be looking at this? What are they doing? Why is that important?

[00:42:04] Jonathan Sabath: -The insured. If you have a fire. You have a contents claim. Let’s say, they’re putting their personal property claim together. They’re creating an inventory. They don’t want to spend all that time in the house and may not be able to it before it might be gone, but they can look through the Matterport scan and jog their memory. What was in each and every room, even if they can’t see it? Then they might see things that they forgot they had. When I’m doing reconstruction on a home, a lot of times homeowners will tell me, ‘’Hey, I had a real high-grade ceiling fan in the ceiling there, [00:42:34] Jonathan Sabath: it was a Hunter Douglas, blah, blah, blah.’’ Then I look at the Matterport picture and it’s typical average-grade ceiling fan or maybe it was something even the opposite. Those stakeholders need to see it 24/7, the Insurance Adjuster. I might need a 24/7, when I’m writing an estimate at 3 am in the morning typically. But other than that 24/7, I don’t need to see the Matterport scan, but it’s there and it’s available.

[00:43:03] Dan Smigrod: 4) Easier to communicate.

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[00:43:05] Jonathan Sabath: -Oh my God. In many times, I send a link to an Adjuster. He doesn’t understand what I’m talking about? He tells me, “there’s rooms missing” and I say, “wait a minute. Let me send you this link. Look at the dollhouse view,” and they go, “Wow! There it is. That is the easiest thing. Instead of arguing with somebody or spending 15-minutes trying to describe where the room is, look at the link.

[00:43:27] Dan Smigrod: 5) Maybe that’s our next benefit to easier to document?

[00:43:33] Jonathan Sabath: -Yes. Easier, more accurate, more robust. You get more documentation than you need.

You don’t have to store it, it’s stored for you. You don’t have to sort through it because it pretty much sorts itself as you’re walking through it and you can measure without being there. That’s one of the key benefits to Matterport in our industry.

[00:44:00] Dan Smigrod: 6) Reduce claim disputes.

[00:44:05] Jonathan Sabath: -You’re having your typical argument. It’s a double bowl sink. No, it’s a single bowl sink. There’s the picture. Go to the Matterport.

[00:44:13] Dan Smigrod: 7) Increase speed of claim approval and payments.

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

[00:44:20] jonathan-sabath-5271708 Jonathan Sabath: -I have so much information and I load my reports up with so much detail in F9 notes. I don’t give the Adjuster an opportunity to wonder where it is? Once they’re wondering where it is, that means, they have to get a hold of me and asked me for more information. I’d rather give them too much and have them say, ‘’Oh, I got it all,” than “not enough.” The minute they start recalling you, you think about a typical Adjuster’s workflow. They’re going through three or four large loss claims a week, [00:44:51] Jonathan Sabath: sometimes more, sometimes less, and they have stack of claims in progress on their desk. When they sit down and make emails or wants to make phone calls all at once. When you don’t hit that spot, when it’s your turn to get their phone call, or you have to add more information to it. Now, you’re two or three days down the road, or a week down the road, or even longer, or maybe, they change Adjusters. That’s fairly common too in a CAT loss, they change Adjusters on your claim, I believe. Do they?

[00:45:19] Dan Smigrod: -Yes. A CAT loss?

[00:45:21] Jonathan Sabath:

-Catastrophic loss.

[00:45:23] Dan Smigrod: -Catastrophic loss.

[00:45:24] Jonathan Sabath: Page 18 of 26

-Hurricanes or catastrophic loss is the term in the insurance world is CAT loss.

WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:45:30] Dan Smigrod: -CAT loss. My wife and I, as I shared, had three different unrelated floods in our house. On the first one, yes, the process went long enough that the insurance company Adjuster changed out. We were lucky enough to have the first insurance Adjuster do an Xactimate. The second, now replacement insurance Adjuster, doing Xactimate, [00:46:04] Dan Smigrod: the general contractor doing an Xactimate, and the primary floor covering guy did a complex sketch that was good enough for him. Everybody seems to be documenting and measuring. Do you think we’ll ever get to the point where maybe the insurance company will say, ‘’Hey, we don’t need to pay, everybody to be doing an Xactimate.” We’re perfectly fine with the Jon Sabbath’s Xactimate. Let’s agree on that one.

[00:46:34] Jonathan Sabath: -I certainly hope so. We’ve been doing some trial work with Farmers Insurance, so they’ve been using our scans. I actually sent them my scans so they could take ownership of it. I’ll keep a copy for my own personal use. They’ll do a Matterport TruePlan.... The goal is, we still eliminate that portion if we’re all working off the same measurements in the same sketch, that creates a much easier situation that increases our accuracy and increases the speed that we can process a claim.

[00:47:03] Dan Smigrod: -Plus, if everybody would agree on what the measurements are? Because everybody is measuring the same space and maybe coming up with a different measurements. Not sure how, but I guess that happens. Back to our list: 9 Benefits of Matterport for Large Property Damage Insurance Claims: 8). Actually seven, we discussed, increased speed of claim approval. I just imagine if it just collapses the time because everybody can agree sooner on what actually happened and what it’s going to take to restore?

[00:47:33] Jonathan Sabath: -You hit on that hiccup. If you change Adjusters, and you made agreements with one Adjuster, and you have no documentation that the new Adjuster can see. Guess what happens? You lose twomonths. That’s not uncommon. That’s pretty common actually.

[00:47:49] Dan Smigrod: -You touched on remote measurement, it sounds like you measure constantly. You did the Matterport scan, but it sounds like you’ve enabled other people to do remote measurement. Other people can use the Matterport tour to do measurements as well. They wanted to dispute what they think, how big that TV set was? They can actually do the measurement in the Matterport tour and go, “Ah! Yeah, I’m in agreement, let’s move on.”

[00:48:16] Jonathan Sabath: -Yeah. Window size, exterior walls, interior walls, I mean, all that stuff. Floor heights.

Typically, our height of doors, 8’ doors I see. 7’ and 8’ doors I see in the Chicago area, older homes, wall thicknesses, and so on and so forth. If you forget to measure something while you’re on site, you can always go back to the Matterport.

[00:48:41] Dan Smigrod: 9) Awesome. Easier collaboration.

[00:48:45] Jonathan Sabath: -That’s same thing we’ve all been talking. Every topic we’ve talked about up to now, it’s all about collaboration. Even PAs, Public Adjusters are typically noted as the adversary of the insurance company. That’s not true. It shouldn’t be true. We should be like two Realtors working on closing the sale of a home. That’s our goal. Put the claim to bed. Communicate with each other and take everybody else out in the mix. Make it more accurate.

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[00:49:16] Dan Smigrod: -This maybe a hard question to ask. We did talk about actually: 9 Benefits of Matterport for large property damage, insurance claims to something else come to mind that we didn’t discuss in terms of a benefit of Matterport?

[00:49:32] Jonathan Sabath:

-I don’t know. I’m at a ‘loss’ for words.

[00:49:35] Dan Smigrod: -We can file an insurance claim on that loss, if you’d like. ;-) [00:49:39] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yeah, you can file an insurance claim. ;-)

[00:49:44] Dan Smigrod: -We can get that documented with our show.

[00:49:46] Jonathan Sabath: -The other benefits are when you’re doing the reconstruction. Maybe you want to make some changes.

Perhaps the homeowners want to reconfigure their kitchen and they want to get an idea of visually the space that it will occupy.

It helps in that regard.

[00:50:06] Dan Smigrod: -Cool. We’ve covered the nine benefits. We’ve talked about your workflow. If I’m a Matterport Service Provider and I’m trying to figure out this space, now I have some sense of who the stakeholders are, I have some sense of what the benefits are, I realize it’s a little bit more PPE safety gear that I’m going to need to be doing scans. But I’m still interested in scanning.

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:50:40] Dan Smigrod: Where are my opportunities, if any? Who do I approach? What is my pitch?

[00:50:49] Jonathan Sabath:

-Say that one more time.

[00:50:50] Dan Smigrod: -Sure. I’m a Matterport Service Provider. I’m used to scanning homes for sale. I am looking to grow my business outside of homes for sale; fire, flood, property damage, insurance claims, remediation, renovation, general contracting. I have some sense now that I’ve listened to you talk about this process. Where do I begin?

[00:51:20] Dan Smigrod: Who’s my best prospect for reaching out to to do Matterport scans when there’s fire and flood damage, wind damage, or natural disasters?

[00:51:32] Jonathan Sabath: -I would say the restoration companies. The restoration companies are your first responders. They’re already getting the call to go to get the job and they’re going to be the ones providing you with jobs. It’s the same as calling a Realtor and soliciting a Realtor. I would solicit Realtors, restoration companies.

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:51:54] Dan Smigrod: -When there’s a fire or a flood, any kind of damage, property damage, the first call is actually going to the company that’s going to do the remediation; going to bring in the blowers to dry out the space?

[00:52:09] Jonathan Sabath:

-Exactly. Yes.

[00:52:10] Dan Smigrod: -Those are the people who actually know about the damage first.

[00:52:20] Dan Smigrod: I look in the yellow pages ;-) I go online. I Google, “remediation companies”... Are there some typical national brands that I should be looking for?

[00:52:33] Jonathan Sabath: -I agree with the national brand program somewhat for smaller claims. If it’s not too complex, a ServiceMaster, a SERVPRO. They’ll suit your needs just fine. But the more complex the job is, the more one-on-one and personal, you want more of a boutique smaller vendor that’s local and has a vested interest in your community. That’s somebody who will serve you best. I think you mentioned that you use some national vendor to do the dry-out in your home and then you went to a restoration contractor that you got [00:53:05] Jonathan Sabath: a recommend from rather than use the national vendor to do the job. That works out best for homeowners. On commercial losses, the national vendors are the ones that you need because they have more manpower to bring in that do those larger job.

[00:53:19] Dan Smigrod: -So as a Matterport Service Provider, I might be better off starting with the perhaps smaller restoration, remediation companies, not necessarily the large brands, but I still might pursue them as well. Now, am I getting myself in over my head because this is a 24/7, I’m going to get a call at 11 PM on a Sunday.

[00:53:44] Jonathan Sabath: -I started in the produce business going to work at one in the morning in South Water Market in Chicago, so I’m used to getting calls and being up that third-shift hour anyway and I never thought anything about it.

[00:53:57] Dan Smigrod: -If that doesn’t scare a Matterport Service Provider away that this is 24/7: when there’s a fire, when there’s flood, when there’s wind damage, when there’s a catastrophe, the likely first place to get the call is the remediation company. That’s who you want to be your new best friend?

[00:54:19] Jonathan Sabath:

-Yes.

[00:54:20] Dan Smigrod: -Who’s your second best friend?

[00:54:23] Jonathan Sabath: -If you can convince the carrier or the cause and origin companies to use you, local municipalities, and I’m working on some of that as well. Talk about doing a scan for a burglary for the police departments, or doing a scan for the fire department so that they have their own scan to show their trainees what they did and what the fire looked like afterwards. That’s important. I was just at what we call a ‘live burn’ at Robinette Demolition, which is the big demolition company here in Chicago.

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:54:55] Jonathan Sabath: They were doing some training with some of the cause and origin people that are sent out by the insurance company to evaluate what caused the damage, the state fire marshal was there, and we ran the Matterport through the test houses afterwards and before so that they could document it for their own use.

[00:55:12] Dan Smigrod: Awesome. Let me just give you one question that’s way out there. If you live in the southeast, there are hurricanes that come your way. If you live in the gulf coast area there are hurricanes come your way.

You live on the West Coast, there’s catastrophic fires. When there is a major catastrophic weather event that takes out so much residential and commercial property, who needs Matterport Service Providers the most in those circumstances?

[00:55:47] Jonathan Sabath: -It’s a tough call. If your house is on a slab, you’re not going to really need a Matterport scan of the house if it’s gone. You’re going to reconstruct the house...

[00:55:58] Dan Smigrod: -Let’s call it water damage. The water came in. It didn’t take down the house but it came up 8’ into the living room.

It receded. It is that a business opportunity for Matterport Service Provider to help a homeowner get documentation sooner in order to get reimbursed sooner? Do you go and talk to the homeowner and say, “Hey! I can provide you with every piece of documentation you need because you’re not going to get a callback from the insurance company or the remediation company?”

[00:56:31] Jonathan Sabath: -You want to be that person that solicits homeowners after they’ve had the fire, like knocking on somebody, like a lawyer going to a hospital for a personal injury case?

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

[00:56:42] Dan Smigrod: -I don’t know. I’m not being sensitive. Thank you for pointing that out. So best to stay with the professional companies that get the calls.

[00:56:51] Jonathan Sabath: -Yes. That’s usually your best bet. Otherwise, you’re going to look like that person even if your intentions are good. Actually, I’m on a blog in Illinois that is geared up – not for soliciting people who have had fires, it’s a Facebook group – but it’s to help people psychologically. They’re going through a lot of PTSD after a fire, that kind of thing. I threw out there, “Hey! I’ll be happy to do a Matterport scan for anybody out there, no charge... Everybody yelled at me for soliciting.

[00:57:22] Jonathan Sabath: People are very, very sensitive when they’ve had a loss. They feel like they’ve been violated in more way than one.

[00:57:32] Dan Smigrod: -I think that’s terrific. I’m glad I asked an insensitive question.

[00:57:36] Jonathan Sabath:

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-You weren’t being insensitive. You’re fine.

WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[00:57:39] Dan Smigrod: -Actually, where I was going with that is I’m thinking, “Oh! There’s so many homes that have been damaged. I got to get my property documented so that I can get an insurance claim filed and actually get reimbursed so I can be getting my life back together.” I am trying to think on behalf of the homeowner, but I can also understand how that could come across as being totally insensitive.

[00:58:02] Jonathan Sabath: -You need to get your name out there before it happens: it’s a different situation, or if somebody sees it on a Facebook page, “Hey! There’s a guy doing scans you might want to use. But the oneon-one solicitation will never work...

[00:58:17] Dan Smigrod: -Do you think there’s a business opportunity to say, “Hey! Let us scan your home before there’s a major fire/flood damage.”

[00:58:25] Jonathan Sabath: -Absolutely. That’s one of the things that we ask insurance to do. Typically after the fact, it’s always a good idea to do a video walkthrough of your home. Better to do with a Matterport camera.

[00:58:36] Dan Smigrod: -Yeah. I’m just thinking the insurance companies at some point might say, you know, to underwrite insurance on your house, we actually want to have documentation of it today.

[00:58:48] Jonathan Sabath:

-Absolutely. Yeah. That’s going to come.

[00:58:51] Dan Smigrod: -It’s going come. That’s cool. Jon, before we wrap it up, do you have any last parting thoughts on this topic of large property damage insurance claims?

[00:59:04] Jonathan Sabath: -The devil is in the details. The more details you provide to the adjuster, who is not your enemy, I don’t care what anybody tells you, don’t listen to fearmongerers and scare tactics and all that stuff.

The adjuster that’s coming out has a vested interest in you. You’re their customer. They want to do right by you.

Maybe on a corporate level, they’re trying to minimize their exposure on that kind of a level. But one-on-one, this adjuster wants to help you in the best way that he can. The easier you make his job, the more cooperative you are, [00:59:36] Jonathan Sabath:

the better you’ll end up.

[00:59:38] Dan Smigrod: -Your last thought about how Matterport has affected Sabath Property Damage Consultants?

[00:59:45] Jonathan Sabath: -[Matterport has] increased my business a hundredfold since I started using it on so many different levels. Even when I was just doing sales and I was running the Matterport camera to get a job. It allowed me to spend more time with the consumer while I was running the scan. I could sell myself and talk to them and explain how things work and make them comfortable with me, gave me a lot of time on site, and then a tremendous asset to help me do my job. Everybody around that knows me wants it.

[01:00:16] Jonathan Sabath: Nobody wanted to pay for this service. Nobody wanted to buy the camera. I lay out the money to do it. But once you have it and they see what it’s worth, they’re willing to pay you to do it for them.

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

[01:00:26] Dan Smigrod: -Awesome. Jon, thanks for being on the show today.

[01:00:28] Jonathan Sabath:

-Thanks for having me. It was fun.

[01:00:30] Dan Smigrod: -We’ve been visiting with Jonathan Sabath. Jonathan is a Claims Adjuster; Xactimate and Matterport estimator for his company, Sabath Property Damage Consultants in the Greater Chicago area. If you’d like to get together, chat with Jonathan, he’s on LinkedIn. That’s his website, so just Google” “Jonathan Sabath, Sabath Property Damage Consultants, LinkedIn”... And you’ll find his LinkedIn profile and you can reach out to him.

[01:01:01] Dan Smigrod: For Jon in the Greater Chicago area, I’m Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum and you’ve been watching WGAN-TV Live at 5.

I don’t have to write the actual claim on scene because I can look at the claim virtually and write it at home. Keeps me out of the hazardous area. When I walk into a job, it’s hazardous. It’s cold. There’s no heat. There’s no light. There’s all kinds of things floating in the air. I’m loaded up wearing PPE. My hands are full. Any kind of automation that does a terrific job, and as robust as Matterport is compared to some of the other systems, is a great time-saver and increases my accuracy.

Jonathan Sabath

Claims Adjuster, Xactimate & Matterport Estimator Sabath Property Damage Consultants, Chicago

jonathan-sabath-5271708

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WGAN-TV | 9 Benefits of Matterport for Property Damage Insurance Claims | Thursday, September 30, 2021

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