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JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR NO. NINETY
$10.95
The Best in POP Culture! ZOWIE!
THE TV SUPERHERO CRAZE IN ’60s POP CULTURE by MARK VOGER
HOLY PHENOMENON! In the way-out year of 1966, the action comedy “Batman” starring ADAM WEST premiered and triggered a tsunami of super swag, including toys, games, Halloween costumes, puppets, action figures, and lunch boxes. Meanwhile, still more costumed avengers sprang forth on TV (“The Green Hornet,” “Ultraman”), in MOVIES (“The Wild World of Batwoman,” “Rat Pfink and Boo Boo”), and in ANIMATION (“Space Ghost,” “The Marvel Super Heroes”). ZOWIE! traces the history of the superhero genre from early films, through the 1960s TV superhero craze, and its pop culture influence ever since. This 192-page hardcover, in pop art colors that conjure the period, spotlights the coolest collectibles and kookiest knockoffs every ’60s kid begged their parents for, and features interviews with the TV stars (WEST, BURT WARD, YVONNE CRAIG, FRANK GORSHIN, BURGESS MEREDITH, CESAR ROMERO, JULIE NEWMAR, VAN WILLIAMS), the artists behind the comics (JERRY ROBINSON, DICK SPRANG, CARMINE INFANTINO, JOE GIELLA), and others. Written and designed by MARK VOGER (MONSTER MASH, HOLLY JOLLY), ZOWIE! is one super read! (192-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $43.95 (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-125-7 SHIPS JULY 2024!
CLIFFHANGER!
All characters TM & © their respective owners.
CINEMATIC SUPERHEROES OF THE SERIALS: 1941–1952 by CHRISTOPHER IRVING Hold on tight as historian CHRISTOPHER IRVING explores the origins of the first on-screen superheroes and the comic creators and film-makers who brought them to life. CLIFFHANGER! touches on the early days of the film serial, to its explosion as a juvenile medium of the 1930s and ‘40s. See how the creation of characters like SUPERMAN, CAPTAIN AMERICA, SPY SMASHER, and CAPTAIN MARVEL dovetailed with the early film adaptations. Along the way, you’ll meet the stuntmen, directors (SPENCER BENNETT, WILLIAM WITNEY, producer SAM KATZMAN), comic book creators (SIEGEL & SHUSTER, SIMON & KIRBY, BOB KANE, C.C. BECK, FRANK FRAZETTA, WILL EISNER), and actors (BUSTER CRABBE, GEORGE REEVES, LORNA GRAY, KANE RICHMOND, KIRK ALYN, DAVE O’BRIEN) who brought them to the silver screen—and how that resonates with today’s cinematic superhero universe. NOW SHIPPING! (160-page COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-119-6
COMIC BOOK IMPLOSION (EXPANDED EDITION) by KEITH DALLAS & JOHN WELLS
NOW IN FULL-COLOR WITH BONUS PAGES! In 1978, DC Comics launched a line-wide expansion known as “The DC Explosion,” but pulled the plug weeks later, cancelling titles and leaving dozens of completed comic book stories unpublished. Now, that notorious “DC Implosion” is examined with an exhaustive oral history from JENETTE KAHN, PAUL LEVITZ, LEN WEIN, MIKE GOLD, AL MILGROM, and other DC creators of the time, plus commentary by other top pros, examining how it changed the landscape of comics forever! This new EXPANDED EDITION of the Eisner Award-nominated book explodes in full cover for the first time, with extra coverage of LOST 1970S DC PROJECTS like Ninja the Invisible and an adaptation of “The Wiz,” Jim Starlin’s unaltered cover art for BATMAN FAMILY #21, content meant for cancelled Marvel titles such as Godzilla and Ms. Marvel, and more! SHIPS MAY 2024! (144-page FULL-COLOR SOFTCOVER) $26.95 • (Digital Edition) $10.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-124-0
IT ROSE FROM THE TOMB An all-new book written by PETER NORMANTON
Rising from the depths of history comes an ALL-NEW examination of the 20th Century’s best horror comics, written by PETER NORMANTON (editor of From The Tomb, the UK’s preeminent magazine on the genre). From the pulps and seminal horror comics of the 1940s, through ones they tried to ban in the 1950s, this tome explores how the genre survived the introduction of the Comics Code, before making its terrifying return during the 1960s and 1970s. Come face-to-face with the early days of ACG’s alarming line, every horror comic from June 1953, hypodermic horrors, DC’s Gothic romance comics, Marvel’s Giant-Size terrors, Skywald and Warren’s chillers, and Atlas Seaboard’s shocking magazines. The 192-page full-color opus exhumes BERNIE WRIGHTSON’s darkest constructs, plus artwork by FRANK FRAZETTA, NEAL ADAMS, MIKE KALUTA, STEVE DITKO, MATT FOX, WARREN KREMER, LEE ELIAS, BILL EVERETT, RUSS HEATH, THE GURCH, and many more. Don’t turn your back on this once-in-a-lifetime spine-chiller—it’s so good, it’s frightening! (192-page SOFTCOVER) $31.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-123-3 • NOW SHIPPING!
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Contents
THE
WHAT IF KIRBY...? OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 fifth world fan-fic from the editor INNERVIEW. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Kirby & Carmine’s cryptic comments JACK FAQs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 Mark Evanier’s 2021 Comic-Con@ home Kirby Tribute Panel, with Paul Levitz and Walter Simonson
ISSUE #90, SUMMER 2024
C o l l e c t o r
ANALYSEZ. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 what killed Jack’s masterpiece? RE-REDUX. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 it’s New Gods ’77! GALLERY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 what if Kirby returned to his best work? INCIDENTAL ICONOGRAPHY. . . . . 34 Jack goes with the Flo ARACH-NITS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 Spiderman’s tangled web EYE-SPY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 Will Murray’s unseen Spider-Man DITKODATA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 who Steve thinks created Spidey FOUNDATIONS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 a never-reprinted S&K crime story FANFLIX. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54 a fan finishes unfinished sagas SKETCHUP. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 Jack’s other black book KIRBY KINETICS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 Jack Kirby, art director KIRBY OBSCURA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 WHAT-IFER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64 Tom Kraft interviewed COLLECTOR COMMENTS. . . . . . . . 78 Cover inks/color: DAMIAN PICKADOR ZAJKO COPYRIGHTS: AIM, Avengers, Batroc, Bombu, Captain America, Crystal, Daredevil, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Dragon Man, Eternals, Fandral, Fantastic Four, Frightful Four, Galactus, Giant-Man, Hulk, Human Torch, Hydra, Invisible Girl, Iron Man, Ka-Zar, Mad Thinker, Miss America, Mr. Fantastic, Nick Fury, Puppet Master, Red Ghost, Sandman, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, SubMariner, Thing, Thor, Trickster, Watcher, What If?, Wizard TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. • Batman, Beautiful Dreamer, Big Barda, Big Bear, Black Magic, Clark Kent, Darkseid, Demon, Dr. Skuba, Forager, Forever People, General Electric, Gork, Granny Goodness, Green Lantern, Guardian, Infinity Man, Jimmy Olsen, Kamandi, Lightray, Mark Moonrider, Mister Miracle, New Gods, Newsboy Legion, OMAC, Orion, Sandman, Serifan, Super Powers, Superman, Ugly Mannheim, Vykin, Wonder Woman TM & © DC Comics. • Haunt of Fear, Weird Science TM & © William M. Gaines Agent, Inc. • Strikeforce, Thundarr TM & © Ruby-Spears Productions. • Bombast, Captain Victory, Copycat, Tribes Trilogy TM & © Jack Kirby Estate • Shadow TM & © Conde Nast • Conan TM & © Funcom • Mr. Scarlet TM & © Archie Comics • Lord of Light TM & © Roger Zelazny • 2001: A Space Odyssey TM & © Warner Bros.
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(above) Full-page pencils from What If? #11 (Oct. 1978), featuring Jack, Stan Lee, Sol Brodsky, and Flo Steinberg as the FF. The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 30, No. 90, Summer 2024. Published quarterly (as if!) by and © TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. 919-449-0344. John Morrow, Editor/Publisher. Single issues: $15 postpaid US ($19 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $53 Economy US, $78 International, $19 Digital. Editorial package © TwoMorrows Publishing, a division of TwoMorrows Inc. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All Kirby artwork is © Jack Kirby Estate unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. Views expressed here are those of the respective authors, and not necessarily those of TwoMorrows Publishing or the Jack Kirby Estate. First printing. PRINTED IN CHINA. ISSN 1932-6912
1
Opening Shot
The Fifth World
W
hat if... it’s the not-too-distant future? After a knock-down, drag-out battle, the forces of Darkseid, and the villain himself, have seemingly been defeated once and for all by the Super Powers team, and things have been quiet for many years. The Global Peace Agency has risen to power during that time, making the Justice League unnecessary, so they’ve gone into a well-deserved retirement. An ageless OMAC is created to be the new protector of society, under the auspices of the GPA. Something’s been bugging him for decades, so a much older and wiser James Olsen and his pals in the Newsman Legion do some serious investigative reporting. In Scotland, they finally uncover the truth about Morgan Edge’s clone, and his nefarious dealings with Apokolips and the Evil Factory they once confronted. They also learn of an imminent final attack on Earth, which leads them to the abandoned ruins of the former Happyland amusement park, where the Guardian and OMAC team up to stop this scheme. The heroes arrive at Happyland to find Mantis, who has unleashed his army of Bugs, rampaging beneath the Earth through the forgotten Boom Tube tunnels shown in early New Gods issues, armed with Micromark weaponry and digging to its core. As the heroes battle Mantis, we learn the backstory of how the Bugs were originally enlisted to create those tunnels, and Darkseid is now capitalizing on this horde’s discontent over how the people of New Genesis sought to exterminate them. Back on New Genesis, Forager warns of Darkseid’s resurgence, and joins Lightray, Orion, Mister Miracle, and Big Barda in a Boom Tube to Earth. But it’s diverted to Apokolips by Metron, who betrays them to repay an old debt to Darkseid. They are met with a surprise attack by Darkseid’s entire entourage (Dr. Bedlam, Kalibak, Granny Goodness, Virmin Vundabar, etc.). Despite a valiant effort (in which Big Barda dies in battle saving Scott), they realize their only hope lies in locating the long-lost Forever People. Scott’s Mother Box has interfaced with Brother Eye on Earth and learned that Dr. Myron Forrest created OMAC at the Project, to secretly harbor the remnants of the AntiLife Equation that existed in the minds of the O’Ryan’s Mob members. Beautiful Dreamer holds the missing remnant. Leaving Orion behind to do battle with Darkseid in Armagetto as foretold in prophesy, with Highfather’s help, a distraught Scott Free finds the now much-older Forever People isolated on the idyllic planet Adon. They sacrifice themselves taking Infinity Man’s place in oblivion with one last “TAARU!”, and instill him with the full Anti-Life Equation through Scott’s Mother Box link to Brother Eye. The now all-powerful Infinity Man travels to Apokolips just as a nearly triumphant Darkseid realizes he can’t kill his own son, and makes Darkseid eternally a Promethean Giant on the Source wall, leaving his lackeys in disarray and defeat, to rule in his absence.
My idea for a “what if?” mini-series or graphic novel, by editor John Morrow (with thanks to Steve Sherman)
Meanwhile, as Earth is collapsing from the Bugs’ underground Micromark explosions, Superman appears from retirement, and rushes to save the planet from total destruction (as shown in flashback on pages 2–3 of Kamandi #29). Superman follows the tunnels to find a Kryptonite core at the Earth’s center (a result of the chain reaction in Superman #233 that turned all the surface Kryptonite to iron ore—it in turn left the ore at the Earth’s center turned to Kryptonite). With his last breath, he stabilizes the Green-K core and dies. Michael Grant, the human scientist from The Project who made Kamandi’s Cortexin serum, is shown as the planet quakes. As test animals escape his lab and are exposed to Cortexin, one gorilla (“Whiz Kid”) has surveyed Superman’s noble sacrifice to save Earth. With the Earth now in ruins, the Bugs have fulfilled their purpose. As they scatter to the surface to retreat with Mantis, a previously unseen Kanto the Assassin fulfills a secret contract with Darkseid by mortally wounding OMAC in the swarming melee. As the Black Racer appears to claim the dying OMAC, Brother Eye reverts him to Buddy Blank and foils the Racer. So the Racer instead travels to Apokolips, reclaiming Infinity Man to join the Forever People in the Source, breaking his tie to the Anti-Life Equation (which is now lost forever), and ending his resurrection. Olsen, the Newsmen, and the Guardian (communicating with Brother Eye through the circuitry of the Whiz Wagon), help a confused Buddy Blank make it into the ruined Project’s Command D bunker, one of four (A, B, C, and D) built as a last resort to save mankind in the event of global catastrophe. Before they perish along the harrowing journey, they manage to also get the lone Newswoman of their group to safety in the bunker, to one day become Kamandi’s mother—or so Kamandi will be led to believe. It’s also possible Kamandi is just a clone of Buddy, created in the remains of the Project. The surviving New Gods blast off into space on their floating city, leaving Earth to its Bug-infested fate as the Earth A.D. (After Disaster) of Kamandi. (Klik-klak is a descendant of the Bugs.) “Whiz Kid” takes the name Golgan and retrieves Superman’s uniform (pulled from the tunnels by a retreating Bug), and founds the Superman-worshiping tribe from Kamandi #29. Scott Free, mourning the loss of Barda, leaves Supertown for a life of seclusion on Adon, where he trains Orion and Bekka’s son to one day return to Earth and restore mankind to its past glory. Scott gifts Turai, the Forever People’s Mother Box, to the boy. He grows to become Captain Victory, and helps Kamandi and Ben Boxer assist loyal Dr. Canus in dispensing his Cortexin antidote, thereby helping the human race rise up against the sentient animals, at the loss of Canus’ own sentience. But in the ensuing years, the Lightning Lady has devoured her aged mate Mantis, and assumed control of his dormant Bug forces on Earth, as she prepares to ravage the galaxy... H [Would Jack have gotten to any of these plot points if his Fourth World series had continued? That’s my take; let’s hear yours, readers!] 2
Innerview
Cryptic Commentaries
A January 31, 1971 interview with Jack Kirby & Carmine Infantino, conducted by Mark Sigal, David Rubin, Paul Hock, and Marc Bigley in the DC offices • This originally appeared in the fanzine Comic & Crypt #5, 1971
[This interview was conducted very early in Jack’s tenure on the Fourth World, and just prior to the ill-fated launch of In The Days of the Mob and Spirit World.]
break to start, and that was the beginning. C&C: You seem to be best known for [Adam] Strange and The Flash. Which did you enjoy more? CARMINE: To tell the truth, I did not like doing westerns, or, strangely enough, The Flash. As for Strange, I enjoyed him at first, but I really liked the Elongated Man. I’m sure this goes for you too, Jack; the ones you’re best known for aren’t the ones you like best. JACK: The ones I began weren’t the well-known ones. I began Manhunter and Mr. Scarlet, which just faded out. Every strip I did was a challenge, as I’m sure it was to Carmine; but I feel what Carmine is trying to say is that he especially liked one thing, but we couldn’t always do that. We did what they gave us to do.
COMIC & CRYPT: How did you both get started in comics?
CARMINE: I could never do a sci-fi story the way he could. C&C: But your speed concepts and futuristic cities were amazing.
CARMINE INFANTINO: I got into comics (above) Jack on the day of this interview, and Carmine the same way at his desk around the same early 1970s time period. Jack did; we were kids of the Depression. Now you gentlemen don’t know the Depression, or what it was about. It was a period when you starved; your family starved. There wasn’t enough food to go around. This was an outlet for us, a field open to us, and like those who went into prizefighting, we went into comics.
CARMINE: Did you see the ones he did? C&C: But you’re two different types of artists. You can’t—. CARMINE: This isn’t what I’m trying to say. This is not what I enjoyed the most. I enjoyed the Elongated Man because of the satire in there. Well, let me say something. Back in the early days, there was quite a lot wrong with my drawing, and every once in a while I would go up to this fellow in the city. We’d talk and he’d help me—but the most important thing he helped me do was think, and I feel he was one of the best around. When I went up there, he used to stop his work and look at my stuff and give me suggestions. That person was Jack.
JACK KIRBY: I feel the minority people had a lot of drive and went to entertainment or anywhere energy was involved.
JACK: Well, I’m not going to take credit for that. Carmine was and is a fine artist, but back then Joe Simon and I used to have an apartment up there. All the guys got together and I think we helped each other, actually. That was the main purpose back then, as none of us had a school; we became each others’ school. There were things that Carmine knew that I didn’t. It was an exchange and that’s basically how artists learned back them. We took standards from each other.
C&C: Who did you start off with first? CARMINE: We both started off with Harry Chesler many years ago. He was a packager—used to package comics, and he used to cheat you like crazy. You were lucky to get paid at the end of the week. It was more fortunate then, as there was time to begin. Now you either have it or you don’t—but then there were always little outfits where you could begin, learn, and grow. JACK: Back then I worked for Famous Funnies and I did cowboy stories for one of my earlier jobs. I also was with—. CARMINE: Yeah! He started that way, and you got nothing for it, but you didn’t care. It was a chance to work, a chance to draw, and that’s all we cared about. C&C: Were you in a group of independent artists who sold their stories to the publishers? CARMINE: No, I worked for Harry for a while; then I went to Quality, erasing pages and doing backgrounds. Those were the days of Lou Fine, and Reed Crandall on Blackhawk, and the genius Jack Cole started on Plastic Man. I used to erase pages all Summer just to get a (right) Splash page from First Love Illustrated #14 (Sept. 1951). The Grand Comics Database credits the pencils and inks to “John Sink”, which based on the autograph, appears to be a pseudonym for Carmine Infantino. Kirby at some point redrew the woman’s face, so we’re assuming this was a rejected Simon & Kirby Studio job that got reworked and sold to Harvey Publications.
3
Mark Evanier
JACK F.A.Q.s
A column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby
[next page] Dr. Fredric Wertham’s 1950s anti-comics crusade (helped by the Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency with their 1954 comic book hearings) took down the venerable EC Comics line, as well and Simon & Kirby’s own Mainline Comics company. But what if Jack had ended up at EC (one of the few major companies he never worked for)? Just for fun, I took a couple of unused Simon & Kirby covers of that era, and turned them into EC cover layouts. Chris Fama ran with it from there, mimicking the Marie Severin-style coloring of the EC line, and relettering the word balloons to match EC’s mechanical Leroy lettering system. As for what the interior of those books might’ve looked like, you can get a sense of Kirby horror from S&K’s Black Magic stories (although they were never as grisly as EC’s most vivid horror tales). And since Wallace Wood was an EC mainstay, it’s fascinating to imagine what a Sky Masters-style pairing of the two would’ve looked like on EC’s science-fiction titles.
The following panel was broadcast on Comic-Con International’s YouTube channel as a part of Comic-Con@Home. Featuring Paul Levitz and Walter Simonson, and moderated by Mark Evanier.
2021 Comic-Con International Comic-Con@home Kirby Tribute Panel MARK EVANIER: Good morning, afternoon, or evening. My name is Mark Evanier. That’s Paul Levitz over there [above center]. That’s Walt Simonson over there [above right]. I’ll tell you a little about them in a minute, but first I want to tell you about a man named Jack Kirby [below]. I assume if you’ve tuned into this podcast, you know who Jack Kirby was. We are here to tell you that he was even more than you think he was. He was an amazing man. Very nice, very kind, very generous. He was the kind of man who, if you were around him, you felt more talented. You just felt more creative, and he inspired an awful lot of people, not just to write and draw comic books, but in all walks of life. I have met in my lifetime actors. I have met painters. I have met dancers. I once met a spot welder who claimed that Jack Kirby was the major influence on his life. [Levitz and Simonson laugh] And I do not think Jack in his life ever even knew what a spot welder did, but something about Jack’s work energized people and made them reach to be better, and he was a very influential person. Walt Simonson is among a small group of people— actually, it’s not that small—who I could name who I think did wonderful work, and still does, writing and drawing stories that capture some of the same energy that Jack had, that achieved a lot of the same goals, without imitating Jack. Walt, I’ve never seen in your work a swipe from Kirby. I’ve never seen a pose where I thought, “Oh, he’s imitating a Kirby pose” or a Kirby layout, but you still captured the same goal that 8
Transcribed by John Trumbull, and copyedited by Mark Evanier and John Morrow. You can view the video at: https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=3Sii1fFVoC4
Jack strove for of having dynamic, interesting art full of people that you cared about. And Paul Levitz I’m going to talk more about later, but Paul has held every managerial position you can have in the comic book field. Mostly at DC Comics, where he was part of a regime we’ll talk about, that changed DC Comics and the life of Jack Kirby substantially. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us for this podcast. Walt, when did you discover Jack Kirby work? And I want to narrow in on The New Gods if we can at some point. WALTER SIMONSON: Well, my first discovery, really, where I was taken by the work… I saw a couple of comics when I was a kid, the old Marvel monster books for Atlas Comics, but I didn’t know who Jack Kirby was. I don’t know that they were credited. And I was a freshman in college in 1964 or early ’65. I was in the dorm room of one of my friends, and they had a very well-read copy of Journey into Mystery, I think it’s #113 [right, Feb. 1965]. It’s the Grey Gargoyle’s return, where Thor gets turned
[mononucleosis] when I was four years old. Back then, no video games, no… we didn’t have a television. You know, lots of stuff. You’re not reading a lot when you’re four years old. I wasn’t, anyway. And so she gave me a little table, a lap table that sat on the bed. I could sit up and she brought a bunch of paper, my dad would bring used paper home from the office, and I would draw on it, and so my drawing really began when I was ill, and then after I got better, I just kept drawing. And so I had been drawing all the time by the time I’d discovered Marvel Comics. EVANIER: And who are the artists besides Jack Kirby that you liked when you were young? SIMONSON: Oh well, without knowing it, because none of the names… I was a kid in the ’50s. None of the names were [credited] on books. Alex Toth was one of them. Gil Kane would have been one of them. I didn’t see much [Steve] Ditko at the time. That came later. And beyond that, I just loved comics. I read every kind of comic I could find. Classics Illustrated—[Simonson hears some thunder booming over his house]. Whoa, that was a good crack of thunder—the movie adaptations. John Buscema, I loved without knowing. He did an adaptation of Helen of Troy, the [1956] Robert Wise movie [for Dell Comics], and it was beautifully drawn. And I loved it as a child. So there were a whole handful of books. And Little Iodine. I loved Carl Barks. I had no idea who Carl Barks was. I loved John Stanley’s work, who did Little Lulu. No idea who John Stanley was. So at the time, I just read a lot of books and I wasn’t very critical of the art. But I did know, for example, who the “Good Duck Man” was. I knew his work
back into a mortal for a while because Odin’s P.O.ed at him for still loving Jane Foster, and they really crammed a great deal into 16 pages. And I was a big Norse mythology fan. I had never seen a Marvel comic before, and I didn’t really know Jack’s work. And I was blown away by the comic, I was blown away by the fact that there was, “Oh my gosh, there’s a comic about Norse mythology! Wow!” And I didn’t care that he didn’t have a red beard, or he didn’t have red hair, or he didn’t have iron gauntlets—any of that stuff. I wasn’t a fan in that sense. I just loved it. I loved the fact that I could read it. The funniest part about it was it starts off with a big fight scene, and there’s a caption that says, “We promised ol’ Jack Kirby we’d let him start with a big fight scene and blah-blah-blah…”. It lasts about two pages. And at the time, I hadn’t looked at the credits. So I read that, and I thought, “Wow, some fan wrote in [Levitz and Evanier laugh] and said, ‘I’d love to see a giant fight scene’ and they did a giant fight scene for Jack Kirby!” And it wasn’t until, I don’t know, 20 years later, I was re-reading the comic at some point and I got to that I went, “Ohhh nooo…” [laughs] and I figured it out. But that was my introduction to Jack Kirby. And within about—what was that, #113?—seven months [later], I discovered where they sold Marvel Comics. And my first Marvel comic was Journey into Mystery #120 (Sept. 1965), a Loki/Absorbing Man story that Jack did, and I never looked back. EVANIER: Okay. When you read that first comic, were you drawing? Were you an artist of any sort at that point in your life? SIMONSON: I probably wouldn’t use the word “artist,” but I certainly… I’ve drawn since I was really younger than I can remember. My mom tells me I was about four. I had 9
Arach-nits
Spiderman’s Tangled Web by Richard Kolkman
Joe Simon was born in 1913, Jack Kirby in 1917, Stan Lee in 1922, and Steve Ditko in 1927, so they may have been exposed to any number of these early influences. [right] The rare 1938 Little Giant Movie Funnies #1 (published by Centaur just two months after Superman’s debut in Action Comics #1). It featured Ed Wheelan’s “Spider-Man”, reprinting it from one of his “Minute Movies” newspaper strips originally produced in the 1920s for The George Matthew Adams Service (which would later syndicate Kirby’s own Sky Masters newspaper strip). [below] Movie poster for The Spider’s first movie, 1938’s The Spider’s Web. [right] The Miss America back-up from Blonde Phantom #12 (Winter 1946).
“Oh, what a tangled web we weave.” Sir Walter Scott—1808
I
t’s important to confer proper credit, where credit is due, because with great creativity, there must also come... great responsibility. For many years, I subscribed to Steve Ditko’s assertion that a creation exists when it is in physical form—basically, when it exists; ideas notwithstanding. What is an idea? And do ideas exist? I have an idea for world peace. Did I just create it? Before Thomas Edison “invented” the electric light bulb, others had the idea for artificial lighting without flame or fuel. However, it was Mr. Edison’s creation that shed light in the dark, cobwebbed corners of his Menlo Park lab. Similarly, it is the Ditko/Lee creation of Spider-Man we have celebrated for over six decades—the creation that took hold, and is trademarked. For this exploration into the origins of SpiderMan, I’m going to adopt Stan Lee’s premise, that the idea is the creation. With that in mind, let us review the earlier spider-people in pulps and comics (and movies and television); for they are the actual creations, according to Stan Lee. The following spider-list is limited to spider/human hybrids with intelligence, and not giant spider monsters. I’m also limited to spider-people I know about. Most all “Tarantulas” and “Black Widows” are excluded from this exploration.
November 11, 1945: “The Spider Boy” [episode #153] of The Shadow radio program features an eccentric character who is described as a “Spider Man” because he is old enough to marry. Best quote: “You’re caught in your own web of insanity.” This episode, scripted by Joe Bates Smith, was later adapted in Shadow Comics V8, #3 in 1948. Winter 1946: Blonde Phantom #12 (Timely); “Scourge Of The Spiderman” 8p by Bill Finger and Charles Nicholas(?). March 22, 1946: The Spider Woman Strikes Back. Sherlock Holmes again faces off against the villain Spider Woman in this Universal film.
1933–1943: The Spider pulp from Popular Publications featured sex and violence stories remembered by Stan Lee from his youth. The Spider punched villains with a spider ring, leaving an indelible mark. Jim Steranko reminds us, “The Spider concept was common in Weird Tales and other horror pulps, not to mention some of the adventure titles, too.”
September 1947: Whiz Comics #89 (Fawcett); “Captain Marvel And The Webs Of Crime” 8p. Otto Binder and C.C. Beck pit the Big Red Cheese against Spider Man.
August 1938: Little Giant Movie Funnies #1 (Centaur); “The Spider-Man” is a reprint from Ed Wheelan’s Minute Movies comic strip (1924– 1935). Gerber’s Photo-Journal Guide to Comic Books determined less than 20 copies still exist of this rare comic book. October 10, 1938: The Spider’s Web 15-part Columbia movie serial begins; based on the pulp character, starring Warren Hull as The Spider.
June 1948: Shadow Comics V8, #3 (Street & Smith); “Spider Boy” 14p. The cover story adapts Joe Bates Smith’s script from a 1945 Shadow radio program. The story was adapted for the comic book by either Bruce Elliott or cover/story artist Bob Powell.
May 1940: Crack Comics #1 “Alias, The Spider” series begins by Paul Gustavson for Quality Comics. Series continues until #30 (Aug. 1943). May 9, 1941: The Spider Returns 15-part Columbia movie serial revisits the pulp character, and again stars Warren Hull as The Spider.
June 1953: The Hand of Fate #18 (Ace); “Web Of The Spider Woman” 7p, with art by Bill Molno. 1953: Spiderman; Joe Simon creates a logo (17 inches across) for an idea he is determined to develop into a creation. This concept evolves into “The Silver Spider” in tribute to Lev Gleason’s Silver Streak Comics.
December 10, 1943: Spider Woman Universal film pits Sherlock Holmes against Gail Sondergard as Zenobia Dollard, The Spider Woman. 36
Foxhole. One of the two existing Night Fighter February 1954: “The Silver Spider” (unpubsample covers was recycled from an unused lished 10p; Harvey). When C.C. Beck wanted Fighting American cover. to get back into comics, Joe Simon contacted his brother-in-law, Jack Oleck, who scripted November 1954: Uncanny Tales #26 (Atlas); this story for Beck to illustrate. Editorial mem“The Spider Man”. With cover art by Joe orandums from Sid Jacobson to Leon Harvey Maneely, this story concerns a crazy professor [above] Joe Simon’s 1953 reveal: “The Silver Spider should be thought of Spiderman logo, and [below] 1941 determined to breed an army of giant spiders as a human spider.” He describes the physical pulp hero The Spider, and The Shadow with two male spiders! 4p, art by Ed Winiarski characteristics and powers in detail, including battles “Spider Boy” in 1948. (signed: “Edwin”). Stan Lee was editor. exceptional agility and a special fluid that 1955: The movie Tarantula was released—adding to emanates from his distinctive costume (like thread). the spider menace zeitgeist. Jacobson mentions a possible “poison,” but nowhere does he intimate wall-climbing, strength, or a “sixth 1956: Chip Hardy (unpublished comic strip). Jack sense” warning of danger. He does go into length about Kirby and Will Elder’s sample strips depict Chip Hardy the physical characteristics of the Silver Spider—he grappling with college life while enduring the taunts should be tall, thin and wiry (like Ditko’s Peter Parker), of Moose Mulligan, a jock who derides freshmen not a muscular person. On his February 23 letter, who have a science scholarship like Chip (a nerd)—a Jacobson strikes out the following: “All conclusions on Peter Parker prototype. The strip also gives a nod to his character and personality should stem from the attri“Moose”, the big lug from Archie Comics. butes of the spider.” Evidently, he had second thoughts November 1957: Black Cat Mystic #60 (Harvey); “The about a hero as savage and murderous as an arachnid. Ant Extract” 5p. A meek scientist discovers a serum The existing Silver Spider sample pages are a that imbues him with the proportional strength of an glimpse into a simpler time. Heroes were heroes, insect (in this case, an ant). With Kirby and George for kids—this one patterned after Fawcett’s Captain Klein art, the story focuses on a scientist with conMarvel, the boy who gained great power through magic. siderable power, who is feared and ostracized by the Oleck also created a second story in typed manuscript authorities (another plot element later used in Marvel’s form, “The Menace.” Sid Jacobson derided the Silver “creation”). Here’s Kirby creating a human with insect Spider concept as “old hat”—like the Green Hornet. powers—an idea that keeps flowing into comics. In the sample pages of C.C. Beck’s story, orphan Tommy Troy leaves Aaron Creacher’s cruel orphanage 1958: Two movies, again part of the cultural zeitgeist, and lands in the clutches of weird old couple Ben and Abigail March. were released: The Spider (a giant creature menace) and The Fly (a human Through the artifices of a magic ring found in a spider’s web, and a genie, turned insect) from Fox. The Return of The Fly was released in 1959, Tommy transforms himself into the Silver Spider faster than you can say continuing the plot that follows a process gone wrong. In Return, it is a “Shazam!” Evidently, Jack Kirby is peripheral to the creation of Harvey’s scientific device that gives the scientist insect powers. The same “created unpublished Silver Spider. Kirby once claimed it was created for an issue idea” was later recycled in Amazing Fantasy #15 in 1962. of Black Magic, but Simon disputed this. This is a spidery super-hero, just June 1959: The Double Life of Private Strong #1 (Archie); “Meet Lancelot as Aaron Stack was both Mister Machine and Machine Man; one idea with Strong” (a revamp of The Shield). An orphaned teenager (again) gains two names. extraordinary powers (transformed scientifically by Simon and Kirby) and July 1954: House of Mystery #28 (DC); “The Spider Man” 6p. Art by Ed is taken in by kind people. He later fails his friend “Spud” and vows to use Smalle. A biologist and insect expert team up to find the spirits of “The his new-found powers to always help others. Sound familiar? Spider People.” August 1959: Adventures of the Fly #1 (Archie); “The Strange New World July 1954: Web of Mystery #25 (Ace); “Lair Of The Of The Fly”. Upon the prompting of Joe Simon by John Silken Doom” 7p. With art by Lou Cameron, a Spider Goldwater (MLJ/Archie) that “superheroes are coming Woman weaves her dangerous web of intrigue. back”, another new hero is born. Simon retrieved the Silver Spider pages from a hyper-organized Leon 1954: Spider Man. This Ben Cooper Halloween costume Harvey, and with the additional presentation of the was introduced for sale. Named Spider Man from the Spiderman logo (1953), the Fly gets the go-ahead beginning, the earliest version of this costume (black for publication, with Kirby as the artist. According to webs on yellow) is a precursor to Marvel’s 1962 verSimon, “We’re calling him The Fly instead of the Silver sion; including full face covering and inhuman eyes. Spider.” The Genie from the Silver Spider was replaced Whether Steve Ditko or Stan Lee ever saw kids come by Turan, emissary of the “Fly People.” Recycled from to their doors in this costume is unknown, but in 1959, the earlier script were orphan Tommy Troy, Aaron the product was re-named “The Spider” and had a Creacher, “Blaster” McCoy, and Ben and Abigail half-mask (black webs on red) with evolved Spider-Man March. Another magic ring is found in spider webs, eyes in a simpler form. With a spider symbol in the which confers great power upon the boy, determined middle of the chest, their 1959 version is a precursor to to do justice. The elderly couple who take Tommy in Marvel’s 1962 character. By 1963, after the introduction are precursors to the mean couple who take in Jed in and success of Ditko and Lee’s version, apparently the Simon and Kirby’s Sandman #1 (Winter 1974)—the Ben Cooper folks found a way to co-exist. They came to same “Cinderella” plot. a licensing agreement with Marvel to the benefit of both The real similarities to the later Spider-Man lie companies. The point is, they didn’t have to. Ben Cooper within his “sixth sense” (awareness of danger) and was first. It’s been said the Ben Cooper company was seeing in all directions, wall-crawling, super strength, only ten miles from the Marvel office. I can tell you what and “the cunning to escape any trap” (Mister Miracle). it’s like to be Spider-Man, as I was him on Halloween The Fly now has a “Buzz Gun” and has electricity flowing through his veins night back in 1968, in my 1960s Ben Cooper costume. when he gains his insect powers—again, like later in Amazing Fantasy October 1954: The Night Fighter (unpublished concept art; Mainline). #15. The story “Come Into My Parlor” introduces the villain “Spider Spry”, These two concept drawings were dreamed up by Simon and Kirby as a thin arachnid fiend who features a Kirby “spider” on his cowl, which their Mainline Comics company was coming to an end. Night Fighter was a more closely resembles a tick. It looks much like Ditko’s later symbol on wall-crawling commando with no super powers. The term “Night Fighter,” the back of his version of Spider-Man’s costume. All of this is presented after being introduced in trade ads as a war comic, later evolved into breathlessly in a “wide-angle scream.” 37
DitkoData
Ditko+
by Ross Morrison
Exploring Steve Ditko’s recollections of Spider-Man’s creation © Robin Snyder & Steve Ditko, used with permission.
[For an even more extensive version of this article, including Ditko’s comments beyond his involvement in the creation of Spider-Man, go to: https://comicbookhistorians. com/the-ditko-version-exploringsteve-ditkos-recollections-of-marvelin-the-1960s-by-rosco-m-copyrightrosco-m-2023]
S
[this spread] To imagine what Kirby’s original Spiderman pages might’ve looked like, examine these examples from Strange Tales Annual #2 (Sept. 1963), inked by Steve Ditko. Picture Jack’s original costume (as recalled, above right, by Ditko) on the figures—it’d clearly have been a very different strip than Ditko’s.
teve Ditko’s earliest recorded accounts of his work at Marvel Comics relate to 1961, the same year in which the publication of Fantastic Four #1, by editor/writer Stan Lee and creator/artist Jack Kirby, initiated the “Marvel Age of Comics.” At this point in his career, Ditko, aged 34, was already an established freelance artist and had been illustrating short stories for Atlas Comics, a precursor of Marvel, since 1956. Lee had recognized Ditko’s talent for bringing to life a certain sub-genre of short story that made use of twist endings akin to those in O.Henry’s writing and Rod Serling’s Twilight Zone television series. The decision was made to showcase their combined talents in a similarly themed anthology publication entitled Amazing Adult Fantasy. This began with issue #7 (Dec. 1961), being a rebranding of Amazing Adventures. The inclusion of the world “adult” reflected Lee’s intent on
attracting a more sophisticated audience, something he emphasized with a cover blurb which proclaimed it as “the magazine that respects your intelligence.” Ditko provided the following summary of this period: “In 1961 I was working with Stan Lee (writer/ editor) at Marvel Comics in producing material (stories and art) for Amazing Adventures (which became Amazing Adult Fantasy). Briefly, in regards to our working method, Stan provided the plot ideas. There would be a discussion to clear up anything, consider options and so forth. I would then do the panel/page breakdowns, pencil the visual story continuity and, on a separate piece of paper, provide a very rough panel dialogue, merely as a guide for Stan. “Stan would provide the finished dialogue for the character, ideas and consistency.” This process is commonly referred to as the “Marvel Method” of producing comic books. Various iterations exist, but all involve artists working from a premise/outline as opposed to a full script (in which character dialogue, etc. has been prepared in advance of the illustrations). Stan Lee and Jack Kirby had only just begun to capitalize on the comic-book industry’s super-hero resurgence, and their newest project would bring Ditko into the mix: “For me, the Spider-Man saga began when Stan called me into his office and told me I would be inking Jack Kirby’s pencils on a new Marvel hero, Spiderman.” Ditko received the first five pages of his assignment, depicting the beginning of an origin story penciled by Kirby. The lack of a hyphenated name was one of many differences between the character appearing in those pages and the ‘Spider-Man’ that is familiar to global audiences today: “The Spiderman pages Stan showed me were nothing like the published character. In fact, the only drawings of Spiderman were on the splash and at the end. At the end, Kirby had the guy leaping at you with a web gun. Aunt 42
“I’m uncertain about the abstract chest design. The closest thing to it is the one on Ant-Man. Kirby’s Spiderman had a web gun, never seen in use. The only connection to the spider theme was the name.” Lee explained to Ditko that the character was a “…teenager with a magic ring that transformed him into an adult hero—Spiderman”. This premise was a familiar one for Ditko, who informed Lee that his new hero “…sounded like Joe Simon’s character The Fly (1959), that Kirby had some hand in, for Archie Comics.” Lee, presumably concerned, subsequently contacted Kirby to discuss the matter further: “Stan called Jack about The Fly. I don’t know what was said in that call. Day(s) later, Stan told me we would be doing SM (SpiderMan). I would be penciling the story panel breakdowns from Stan’s synopsis and doing the inking.”
May was there, and Uncle Ben was a retired policeman. He looked a lot like General Thunderbolt Ross. Anyway, the first five pages took place in the home, and the kid finds a ring and turns into Spiderman.” Ditko’s recollections of these pages’ contents would be revised on various occasions. While largely consistent, another iteration offered a slightly different description that included additional story/character details:
Stan Lee’s newly written synopsis was described by Ditko as consisting of a ‘brief storyline’, being a ‘page-and-a-half’ in length. This would form the basis of a new origin tale, though one that employed the traditional twist ending found in Lee/Ditko short stories. As Ditko observed, this was a fresh start for the strip that discarded vital elements found in Kirby’s pages:
“The other four pages showed a teenager living with his kindly old aunt and hard, gruff, retired police captain uncle, a General Thunderbolt Ross-type (from The Hulk) who was hostile toward the boy. Next door or somewhere in the neighborhood was a whiskered scientist-type involved in some type of experiment or project. The end of the five pages depicted the kid going toward the scientist’s darkened house.” Ditko’s accounts included a description (and attempted reproduction from memory above) of the original Kirby-designed costume worn by the ‘Spiderman’ character, which included a cowl covering half his face in a manner akin to Batman or Captain America:
“Kirby’s five penciled Spiderman story/art pages were rejected. Out went the magic ring, adult Spiderman, and whatever legend ideas that Spiderman story would have contained.” For reasons unmentioned in his records, Ditko was assigned as both the penciler and inker for the project. He likely welcomed the decision, given his strong views on splitting the roles: “Pencil art needs an inker to bring out the strength of the penciler’s style in how a penciler emphasizes or diminishes panel elements: people, faces, action, mood, settings, etc. 43
Sketchup
Kirby’s OTHER Black Book by Shane Foley
I
really like Jack Kirby’s Black Book. This is the sketchbook of (mostly) his creations he drew for his wife Roz which, when copies of the pics were inked, was published as Jack Kirby’s Heroes and Villains: Black Magic Edition. That’s the version I have. But the pencil scans I’ve seen are wonderful. However, I have often noticed, as I think most of his fans would, just how many of his dynamic creations are not in the book. He even missed the Human Torch! Whaaat? So General Argyle Fist and Conan (!) make it in, but the Torch doesn’t. Go figure. Then sometime in 2014, I had an idea. You see, I had a nice book full of blank pages too, just like Jack did. I have no memory where it came from. Did I buy it? Or was it given to me? All I know is, it had been on one of my bookshelves for ages. Yes, I had this idea. And I had time. I would create Jack Kirby’s Other Black Book! I had, for years, swiped Kirby poses for all sorts of reasons. I could do it again. So I began to make a list of as many characters as I could that Jack either created or was heavily involved with, that were not in his Black Book. The book I had was 95 pages long. Could I find 95 characters he’d overlooked? (Well, 93 actually.) Why? Because I decided early on that there was a very personal element I wanted in “Jack’s” new book. You see, in his Black Book, Jack drew both Orion and Big Barda, but he drew neither in their spectacular uniforms. Two of the best uniforms for super-heroes ever, in my opinion. So I decided in Black Book Vol. 2, they would both appear again, but in uniform. So I started my list. I needed 93 characters. And you guessed it—it was easy to find 93. In fact, many pages even had multiple characters on them. So without further ado, here’s a sample of what is in the book. (And a list of all the characters, so, if you are so inclined, you can try to work out the Kirby pose I’d swipe to draw them.) After it was all done, I realized I’d left out Arnim Zola. Damn! And the Celestials! And Captain Flane. -sighThere are just so many! H
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WHAT IF KIRBY HAD BECOME MARVEL’S ART DIRECTOR? t some point later in his life, in a Playboy interview [as referenced in 2014 at https://www.digitalspy.com/comics/ a559772/stan-lee-confused-by-jack-kirby-controversy/], Stan Lee claimed that he had once offered Jack Kirby the job of art director for Marvel Comics, “but he said no,” said Lee. “He didn’t want a staff job.” On another occasion in 1998, Lee stated, “The one thing I remember and felt bad about when Jack left was that I had been thinking about—and maybe even talked to him about it—that I wanted to make Jack my partner in a sense; I wanted him to be the art director.” Later in that same statement, Lee said, “It probably
A [below and right] Jack’s layouts, and George Tuska’s final art, for Tales of Suspense #70 (Oct. 1965).
1 wouldn’t have worked out anyway, because I might have disagreed with him about things.” [https://www.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/02stanroy.html] One can only get the sense from these statements that there is a good chance that Lee never actually approached Kirby with the offer of a position as art director, but let us imagine that he did and that Kirby had accepted such an offer. What would have happened if Jack Kirby had been overseeing the production of artwork for Marvel in the late ’60s and early ’70s? In a certain way, Kirby was the de facto art director of Marvel, certainly from the point when it was determined that the company’s foray into a line of super-hero books might be profitable. The fact is that when Kirby returned to Marvel in 1958, the company then called Magazine Management was very close to going out of business. Lee was demoralized as well by the sudden death of his close associate and star artist Joe Maneely on June 8, 1958. In the words of comics scholar 57
What-Ifer
Tom Kraft Interview Conducted by Rand Hoppe in November 2023
[above] Rand Hoppe, Founder of the Jack Kirby Museum [left] and Tom Kraft, President of the Kirby Museum [right] in 2010 in Hoboken, New Jersey, home of the Jack Kirby Museum. (Note: the Museum has no physical exhibit space.) [below, right] Captain America #193, the actual first Jack Kirby comic book Tom purchased in 1975. [next page] The scrapbook Tom assembled his inked and colored drawings of his favorite Jack Kirby characters and two-page comic book spreads in. [below] Coming this summer is Tom’s 208page Jack Kirby’s The Eternals Pencils and Inks Artisan Edition, offering before and after comparisons of Jack’s work on that series.
[Here, Tom Kraft, President of The Jack Kirby Museum and Research Center (https://kirbymuseum. org), talks about how he commissioned some of Jack Kirby’s greatest inkers to ink his recreated Jack Kirby pencils to make new comic art to compare pencils to inks. This art, plus a sampling of the Jack Kirby’s Museum’s Kirby Digital Archive, formed the largest online archive of Jack Kirby art, the no longer extant whatifkirby.com. He later conceived and designed the book Jack Kirby: Pencils and Inks, published by IDW, which showcased this comparison. This interview was copy-edited by Mike Cecchini, Rand Hoppe, and Kat King. Tom added additional details and images in December 2023.]
book, Captain America #193, which was when Jack Kirby returned to Marvel. I didn’t even recognize any of the comics. I just happened to be looking at the spinner rack and saw Captain America. At the time, I had only seen Fantastic Four from my friend, so I opened it up and saw Jack Kirby on the page-one splash and I thought, “Oh man, that’s the same guy that did Fantastic Four! I’m gonna buy this!” So I bought it. I still have it! Later on, George and I would ride our bikes to Empire Comics in Rochester once a week to see if there were any new comics we were looking for. I was only looking for Jack Kirby comics after seeing those Fantastic Four issues. HOPPE: So you had access to a back-issue comic shop early on! And while this was going on, were you drawing? KRAFT: I was about 16 or 17 when I started a scrapbook where I would redraw comic art by hand, from scratch. I’d draw Kirby comic pages at 100% size because that’s what I was looking at. I didn’t know that comic original art was larger or even existed. I had markers, inks, and watercolors, and I would draw and colorize everything like the printed comic. I still have that scrapbook, too. That’s when I started being obsessed with Jack Kirby and drawing Jack Kirby stuff. I continued to buy comics, working from the new comics back into DC issues like The New Gods, Kamandi, The Demon, and anything else I could get my hands on. I enjoyed the art in these series more than anything else, and they served as subject matter for my scrapbook.
RAND HOPPE: Tell us how you first became aware of Jack Kirby’s work. TOM KRAFT: Oh, that’s a long time ago, around 1975. I was about 15 years old and in high school. A friend of mine was collecting comic books and said I should look at them. He rode his bike to my house and brought about ten issues of The Fantastic Four. There were six or so Fantastic Four issues from the 1960s, like issues #65, 66, 67, and so on. HOPPE: Do you have any idea how he ended up having old comics? KRAFT: I’m not sure how he ended up having them, but he really liked comic books. I didn’t like comic books at the time. To me, comic books were Mickey Mouse, Daffy Duck, and Archie, not for me. Being about 15, I thought comics were kids’ stuff for eight- or nine- or ten-yearolds. But I had the impression that my friend wanted to show me what comic books could be, so he brought them over. When I saw those Fantastic Four issues, Jack Kirby’s art instantly blew me away. It was like, “I didn’t even think comic books could be like this! You convinced me!” He was really into war comics, too. He was reading Sgt. Fury, and he liked [offbeat titles like] Swamp Thing. Later, I would go over to his house, and he’d have stacks of comic books. He used to record the audio from old Star Trek episodes on a little cassette recorder so we could listen to them and read comics.
HOPPE: Did you do any art projects or take any art classes in school, or was that just stuff you were doing at home? KRAFT: It was home stuff at the beginning, but when I went to high school, we had an art class. I liked comic art very much… but I became more interested in graphic design. So I went to college for graphic design [at Rochester Institute of Technology]. There, I took a lot of art classes, including printmaking and pastels.
HOPPE: I think it’s fair to name-check your friend if you’re up for it. KRAFT: My friend is George Hammond. We grew up in Rochester, New York. I’ve since sent him a Jack Kirby Museum t-shirt in thanks for getting me into comic books back then. I started buying comics at a drugstore called Key Drugs. Key Drugs was where my sister worked. A little bit later, maybe around ’77-ish, I started working there too. I went there to buy comic books off the spinner rack. That’s where I bought my first comic 64
HOPPE: So it was R.I.T. where it all happened? KRAFT: Well, after high school, I went to Monroe Community College and took fine art classes, including oil
painting, drawing, and figure drawing. I earned a two-year associate’s degree, then went to R.I.T. for my Bachelor’s Degree. There, I learned graphic design, including print design, typography, photography, computer graphics, and mechanical production.
every Jack Kirby comic I owned and shoved it in the back of my closet. At my office, we had dial-up modems we used to get on the internet. One evening, working late, I read on a website that Jack Kirby had died in 1994. And I thought, “Jack Kirby… God, that’s the guy who did all that comic book stuff.” I didn’t even think anybody knew who he was. I just thought he was an artist I liked as a kid. I was surprised that he’d been so prominent in the comics industry. It got me thinking of grabbing my comic books and looking at them again. So I pulled out the longbox and all the comics were in those old plastic sleeves, which had yellowed and stuck together. They’d been sitting there, for I don’t know how many years without ever being removed. So I went online, learned about mylar sleeves, and bought mylar bags. As I was re-bagging these comics, I looked at them and said, “Wow, this is really great art. Jack Kirby is really, really good.” So that got me back into it. Then, around 1995, I finally heard about comic conventions. There was one at Ramapo High School in New York State. What was important about this one was that I saw original art for the first time. There was a dealer who had a Black Panther #3 page for $250. And I thought, “Wow, that’s really expensive, but I’m going to buy it anyway.” So, I bought my first comic book page there. I was just blown away seeing full-size black-and-white inked Jack Kirby art. I wanted to start collecting comic art. At that time, there weren’t many comic art collectors or dealers, and it was more word of mouth. Most dealers were just selling comic books. Some would sell a couple of pages here and there but there weren’t many in 1995 or ’96 who just sold comic art. But then I heard about ComicArt-L, a message group of art collectors. I was one of the first to join. The first collector that I reached out to [on there] was Dave Schwartz because I really wanted to get a two-page Kirby art spread. But he told me, “You’re a little bit too late. You should have gotten into comic art five years ago when it was cheap. Now it’s expensive.” I said, ‘Well, how much is a spread generally gonna cost me?’ and he said, “Well, you’re looking at
HOPPE: Was there a point where you were still keeping up with comics, or were other things taking over? Or with Jack Kirby not publishing, you didn’t go back to comics? KRAFT: I stopped collecting and reading comics when I started college. I didn’t know Kirby’s later comics, Super Powers or Captain Victory. After Kirby left Marvel in 1978, that was it for me. And plus, in college you tend to move away from comic books. Even then, everybody considered a comic book a kid’s thing, and I thought, “Okay, I’m serious now. I’m going to college. I’m taking art. I’m going to be a graphic designer.” I wanted to finish school and establish a career when I got out, so I moved to Boston. HOPPE: Did you participate in fanzines or go to comic book conventions in high school? KRAFT: To be honest, I didn’t even know they existed. Back then, you needed to be into the comics scene to know about comic conventions and events. You were unaware if you were just a casual collector like I was. HOPPE: What kind of work were you doing at the design company? KRAFT: I started just doing production work. That meant making photostats on a stat camera. I said I’d take any position. They offered the position to me, saying, “This is probably not the right job for you.” Within six months, I was promoted to a design position where I designed print annual reports and collateral under an art director. Then I became an art director, then a creative director, and finally, a part owner of the company, working with a team of creatives and developers building and designing “multimedia” applications and websites. HOPPE: How did comics and Jack Kirby come back into your life? KRAFT: From 1985 to 1994, I had nothing to do with comics. I brought them with me to Boston in a comic book longbox that had
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