Jack Kirby Collector #88 by TwoMorrows Publishing

Characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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FALL 2023

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JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR EIGHTY-EIGHT

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THE

PACIFIC COMICS COMPANION

by STEPHAN FRIEDT & JON B. COOKE

BRICKJOURNAL #82

RETROFAN #29

RETROFAN #30

Celebrating Disney’s 100th anniversary in LEGO! Disney Castles with MARTIN HARRIS and DISNEYBRICK, magical builds by JOHN RUDY and editor JOE MENO, instructions to build characters, plus: Nerding Out with BRICKNERD, AFOLs by GREG HYLAND, step-by-step “You Can Build It” instructions by CHRISTOPHER DECK, and Minifigure Customization with JARED K. BURKS!

The story behind BOB CLAMPETT’s Beany & Cecil, western queen DALE EVANS, an interview with Mr. Ed’s ALAN YOUNG, Miami Vice, The Sixties’ Wackiest Robots, Muscle-Maker CHARLES ATLAS, Super Powers Team—Galactic Guardians, and more fun, fab features! Featuring columns by ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, and MARK VOGER! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

The Brady Bunch’s FLORENCE HENDERSON, the UNKNOWN COMIC revealed, Hanna-Barbera’s Top Cat, a Barbie history, RANKIN/BASS’ Frosty the Snowman, Dell Comics’ Monster SuperHeroes, Slushy Drinks, and more fun, fab features! Featuring columns by ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, and MARK VOGER! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

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(160-page COLOR SOFTCOVER) $29.95 (Digital Edition) $15.99 ISBN: 978-1-60549-121-9

All characters TM & © their respective owners.

Presenting MARK CARLSON-GHOST’s stupendous study of the 1940s NOVELTY COMICS GROUP—with heroes like Blue Bolt, Target and the Targeteers, White Streak, Spacehawk, etc., produced by such Golden Age super-stars as JOE SIMON & JACK KIRBY, CARL BURGOS, BILL EVERETT, BASIL WOLVERTON, et al. Plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, FCA, and more!

BACK ISSUE #148

BACK ISSUE #149

BACK ISSUE #150

COMIC BOOK CREATOR #32 COMIC BOOK CREATOR #33

DC SUPER-STARS OF SPACE! Adam Strange in the Bronze Age (with RICHARD BRUNING & ANDY KUBERT), From Beyond the Unknown, the Fabulous World of Krypton, Vartox, a Mongul history, the Omega Men, and more! Featuring CARY BATES, DAVE GIBBONS, DAN JURGENS, CURT SWAN, PETER J. TOMASI, MARV WOLFMAN, and more! Cover by CARMINE INFANTINO & MURPHY ANDERSON!

’80s INDIE HEROES: The American, Aztec Ace, Dynamo Joe, Evangeline, Journey, Megaton Man, Trekker, Whisper, and Zot! Featuring CHUCK DIXON, PHIL FOGLIO, STEVEN GRANT, RICH LARSON, SCOTT McCLOUD, WILLIAM MESSNER-LOEBS, DOUG MOENCH, RON RANDALL, DON SIMPSON, MARK VERHEIDEN, CHRIS WARNER & more superstar creators. Cover by NORM BREYFOGLE!

ANNIVERSARY ISSUE! Our oversized 100-PAGE SUPER SPECTACULAR sesquicentennial edition, featuring BATMEN OF THE 1970s! Exploring the work of Bronze Age Batman artists BOB BROWN, DICK GIORDANO, IRV NOVICK, FRANK ROBBINS, WALTER SIMONSON, ALEX TOTH, & BERNIE WRIGHTSON. Plus: revisit FRANK MILLER’s first Batman story, and more!

WILLIAM STOUT is interviewed about his illustration and comics work, as well as his association with DINOSAURS publisher BYRON PREISS, the visionary packager/ publisher who is also celebrated in this double-header issue. Included is the only comprehensive interview ever conducted with PREISS, plus a huge biographical essay. Also MIKE DEODATO on his early years and FRANK BORTH on Treasure Chest!

STEVE GERBER biographical essay and collaborator insights, MARY SKRENES on co-creating Omega the Unknown and helping develop Howard the Duck, VAL MAYERIK cover and interview about his life with Howard the Duck, ROY THOMAS reveals STAN LEE’s unseen EXCELSIOR! COMICS line, and more of GREG BIGA’s comprehensive chat with artist MIKE DEODATO!

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WORKING WITH DITKO by JACK C. HARRIS

WORKING WITH DITKO takes a unique and nostalgic journey through comics’ Bronze Age, as editor and writer JACK C. HARRIS recalls his numerous collaborations with legendary comics master STEVE DITKO! It features never-before-seen preliminary sketches and pencil art from Harris’ tenure working with Ditko on THE CREEPER, SHADE THE CHANGING MAN, THE ODD MAN, THE DEMON, WONDER WOMAN, LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, THE FLY, and even Ditko’s unused redesign for BATMAN! Plus, it documents their work on numerous independent properties, and offers glimpses of original characters from Ditko’s drawing board that have never been viewed by even his most avid fans! This illustrated volume is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to experience the creative comic book process by one of the industry’s most revered creators, as seen through the eyes of one of his most frequent collaborators! NOW SHIPPING!

Star Guider TM & © Jack C. Harris.

ALTER EGO #185

Known as one of the finest inkers in comics history, the late TOM PALMER was also an accomplished penciler and painter, as you’ll see in an-depth interview with Palmer by ALEX GRAND and JIM THOMPSON. Learn his approach to, and thoughts on, working with NEAL ADAMS, GENE COLAN, JOHN BUSCEMA, and others who helped define the Marvel Universe. Plus Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, FCA, and more!

Shade TM & © DC Comics.

ALTER EGO #184

Author STEPHAN FRIEDT shares the story of the meteoric rise of the Schanes brothers’ California-based imprint PACIFIC COMICS, which published such legends as JACK KIRBY, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, STEVE DITKO, NEAL ADAMS, MIKE GRELL, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, and DAVE STEVENS. From its groundbreaking 1981 arrival in the fledgling direct sales market, to a catastrophic, precipitous fall after only four years, THE PACIFIC COMICS COMPANION reveals the inside saga, as told to Friedt by BILL AND STEVE SCHANES, DAVID SCROGGY, and many of the creators themselves. It also focuses on the titles and the amazing array of characters they introduced to an unsuspecting world, including THE ROCKETEER, CAPTAIN VICTORY, MS. MYSTIC, GROO THE WANDERER, STARSLAYER, and many more. Written with the editorial assist of Eisner Award-winning historian JON B. COOKE, this retrospective is the most comprehensive study of an essential publisher in the development of the creator’s rights movement. Main cover illustration by DAVE STEVENS. NOW SHIPPING!

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THE CHILLINGLY WEIRD ART OF

MATT FOX

by ROGER HILL

MATT FOX (1906–1988) first gained notoriety for his jarring cover paintings on the pulp magazine WEIRD TALES from 1943 to 1951. His almost primitive artistry encompassed ghouls, demons, and grotesqueries of all types, evoking a disquieting horror vibe that no one since has ever matched. Fox suffered with chronic pain throughout his life, and that anguish permeated his classic 1950s cover illustrations and his lone story for CHILLING TALES, putting them at the top of all pre-code horror comic enthusiasts’ want lists. He brought his evocative storytelling skills (and an almost BASIL WOLVERTON-esque ink line over other artists) to ATLAS/MARVEL horror comics of the 1950s and ’60s, but since Fox never gave an interview, this unique creator remained largely unheralded—until now! Comic art historian ROGER HILL finally tells Fox’s life story, through an informative biographical essay, augmented with an insightful introduction by FROM THE TOMB editor PETER NORMANTON. This FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER also showcases all of the artist’s WEIRD TALES covers and interior illustrations, and a special Atlas Comics gallery with examples of his inking over GIL KANE, LARRY LIEBER, and others. Plus, there’s a wealth of other delightfully disturbing images by this grand master of horror—many previously unpublished and reproduced from his original paintings and art—sure to make an indelible imprint on a new legion of fans. NOW SHIPPING! (128-page COLOR HARDCOVER) $29.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-120-2

When I visited the Kirby’s during the 1980s and ’90s, this collage hung above their dining room table. One day, Roz shared with me the collage’s origin. Roz explained that she had purchased an empty frame— I believe she said at a garage sale—and brought it home. Jack saw the frame and said it needed to have something in it. Jack then created the collage to literally fit the frame. From then on, it hung on the dining room wall of their home. When Roz shared this story with me, she was clearly emotional, as it was about a year after Jack’s passing. Since that day, this collage has always been special to me, and I hope you appreciate it as well. – David Schwartz

THE

Contents KIRBY COLLECTORS! OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 GUEST SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 guest curator Glen David Gold on the genius of Kirby JACK FAQs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 Mark Evanier’s 2023 WonderCon Kirby Tribute Panel, featuring Marv Wolfman, John Morrow, Paul S. Levine, and Steve Leialoha

ISSUE #88, FALL 2023

C o l l e c t o r

INNERVIEW. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 more with Marv Wolfman GALLERY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 some fan service, mostly in pencil INCIDENTAL ICONOGRAPHY. . . . . 32 Sean Kleefeld casts a spell on Witchboy’s design EU EXHIBIT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 a Kirby exhibition in France INNERVIEWS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 the Simon legacy lives on CUTTIN’ UP . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 comic collecting carnage INNERVIEW. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 the King of monsters speaks FOUNDATIONS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 a Boy Explorers story KIRBY OBSCURA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 splash panels supreme COLLECTOR COMMENTARIES. . . . 58 Mike Mignola, Patrick McDonnell, and others talk collecting Kirby KIRBY KINETICS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 Norris Burrough’s artistic journey COLLECTOR COMMENTS. . . . . . . . 78 Front cover inks: MIKE ROYER Front cover color: GLENN WHITMORE COPYRIGHTS: Ant-Man, Avengers, Black Knight, Black Panther, Captain America, Crystal, Cyclops, Devil Dinosaur, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Dragon Man, Eternals, Falcon, Fantastic Four, Galactus, Giant-Man, Hulk, Human Torch, Ikaris, Inhumans, Invisible Girl, Iron Man, Khanata, Krangro, Machine Man, Mad Thinker, Medusa, Moonboy, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Little, Nick Fury, Nova, Prester John, Princess Zanda, Puppet Master, Rawhide Kid, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, Sub-Mariner, Taboo, The Glob, Thing, Thor, Ulik, X-Men TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. • Atlas, Barri-Boy, Demon, Dubbilex, Farley Fairfax, Himon, Jason Blood, Jimmy Olsen, Kamandi, Losers, Metron, Mister Miracle, Mr. Vince, Newsboy Legion, Professor Volcanum, Rodney Rumpkin, San Diego Five-String Mob, Superman, Virmin Vundabar, Witchboy TM & © DC Comics • Captain Victory, Dream Machine, Friend of Fandom characters, GODS Portfolio, Kirby Unleashed TM & © Jack Kirby Estate • Destroyer Duck TM & © Steve Gerber and Jack Kirby estates • Black Magic, Boy Explorers, Fighting American, Speedboy TM & © Joe Simon and Jack Kirby Estates • Private Strong TM & © Archie Comics • Dream-Boat, Roxie’s Raiders TM & © Ruby-Spears Productions • 2001: A Space Odyssey TM & © Warner Bros. • ShieldMaster, Spyder-Fly TM & © Jim Simon.

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[above] Cover pencils for Black Panther #3 (May 1977), featuring the ultimate collector, Mr. Abner Little. The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 30, No. 88, Fall 2023. Published quarterly (collectibly) by and © TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. 919-449-0344. John Morrow, Editor/Publisher. Single issues: $15 postpaid US ($19 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $53 Economy US, $78 International, $19 Digital. Editorial package © TwoMorrows Publishing, a division of TwoMorrows Inc. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All Kirby artwork is © Jack Kirby Estate unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. Views expressed here are those of the respective authors, and not necessarily those of TwoMorrows Publishing or the Jack Kirby Estate. First printing. PRINTED IN CHINA. ISSN 1932-6912

Opening Shot

The Collector’s Impulse by editor John Morrow

“Comic book fans are pussy cats compared to the insatiable collectors who roam this world like predators in search of priceless and forbidden artifacts!” –Jack Kirby, Black Panther #2, March 1977

ompulsive hoarding (a.k.a. hoarding disorder) is a known mental condition related to obsessivecompulsive behavior. Whether we’ve been diagnosed with it or not, that urge to acquire “stuff” probably affects all hardcore comics fans in one way or another. From an early age, we felt like we had to get every issue of our favorite comic book, and spent our allowances on back issues, subscriptions (mailed in those horrible brown wrappers and folded in half by the post office!), Slurpee cups with our favorite characters on them, even trading cards (Wacky Packages was my kryptonite for a couple of middle school years). But those were all just gateway drugs that lead some (but not me) to a much more pernicious habit: original art collecting. While I do sometimes regret never taking the plunge collecting original comic art back in the 1980s, my bank account is the better for it (sure, I’d now have art worth much more than I paid for it, but I could only cash in by bringing myself to sell it). Still, I’ve had the honor of getting to know a few collectors who have skin in the game, and one of my favorites is Glen David Gold. So when Glen suggested I do an issue focused on the word “collector” in its title, I roped him into spearheading it by using his own contacts in the art collecting world to get stories behind some of their favorite Kirby art pieces. I hope you’ll be enlightened and entertained by their tales here, even if you’ve never purchased an original art page in your life. I personally own just four Kirby pages (no splashes or covers), acquired years ago for $200 or less each, and that’s probably it for me. The market these days is too rich for my blood. I’m very glad I already have many of the key Kirby comics in my collection, as those aren’t getting any cheaper, either. The other focus of this “collectors” issue is fans who collect comic books. You’ll find more heartwarming (and possibly heartbreaking) accounts of their searches for elusive issues they needed to complete their hoarding... err, collections here.

Jack poses with fans Paul Crafft [left] and John Knighton in 1993 at Comic Relief in Berkeley, California. “What immediately impressed me was the intensity of his gaze, which reminded me of his Lower East Side street origins. No pushover in that regard,” Paul Crafft said. “We walked inside and nobody was ahead of us. I took the bold move of walking first up to Jack and he stood up to shake hands. I quickly introduced John as I was a bit speechless and he and John had a good chat though I didn’t hear much of it and he remembers little nowadays as well. So, no one else crowded our moments there in the store. It was only after getting the photo in question taken that other individuals trickled in and we took our leave.”

Stan Lee undoubtedly did more interviews than Jack, but I’ll bet Jack did more in-person, one-on-one interactions with his fans than Stan did. Instead of appearing on stage in front of large crowds, Jack opted for the personal touch of meeting fans face-toface, whether at a convention booth, a comic book store appearance, or hosting them at his home. But sometimes, letting your fans get a little too close can have negative repercussions. To wit: Shaun Clancy recently sent me this ad [above] from the first issue of The Buyer’s Guide for Comic Fandom, published in 1971—an ad offering up the addresses of popular comic book creators. This struck me as a horrible invasion of privacy, and as Shaun wasn’t sure if this actually got published (I couldn’t find a record of it online, and I wasn’t able to track down advertiser Scott Newberg), I asked our all-knowing regular columnist Mark Evanier, who replied: “As I recall, the Super Address Book was never published. The ad ran in the Buyer’s Guide, several professionals protested, and the Buyer’s Guide contacted the publisher and convinced him to cancel the project— or something like that.” In this day and age, that project may seem a little stalker-ish (“Does one live near you?”), but I think we can chalk up the Super Address Book idea to youthful fan exuberance. We can all get a little (or a lot) obsessive in our collecting hobby, but Kirby routinely had fans visit his home, and lived to tell about it. I suspect that, had social media been around at the time Jack made his Black Panther #2 proclamation above, he might’ve thought twice about it. Thankfully, we’ve got publications like this one where we can all air our opinions (and the occasional grievance) in a civil manner, while paying tribute to the comics greats whose work we all grew up collecting. To quote The King himself, “I thank you for that.” TJKC readers like Glen Gold—and you!—have made my own collecting (and publishing) journey a delight. H

Guest Shot

Genius on Bristol Board by guest curator Glen David Gold

y father, an obsessive collector of clocks and watches, has a saying: “There is no substitute for information except money. The reverse is also true.” I have over the last thirty years put together a small, but pretty cool collection of Jack Kirby artwork, mostly with information, sometimes with money. Kirby was the first artist whose work I recognized, and then the first artist whose work was so distinct, I could tell who had inked him. It’s a little tough sometimes to discern if Gene Colan is being inked by Sinnott or Syd Shores—not so tough with Jack’s work. Jack’s was also the first work I saw in person. At the 1973 Berkeley Con, I was nine years old. A dealer had the double-spread from Fantastic Four Annual #1 for the knee-buckling price of $75, roughly the same price as reading copies of FF #51-102. I don’t think I even coveted it—I was more interested in buying all the comics I needed in order to understand the Marvel Universe. And 1973, age nine, what a perfect time to do so—it wasn’t too bonkers yet. The feeling of getting familiar with every crisis every character went through was like researching my own family tree—if my family also had super-powers and some of them ate planets. Many years later, when I was 29, I finally had a job that paid more than minimum wage, and I discovered at my local comics shop three publications that opened a door for me: Comics Buyers Guide, Jerry Weist’s Comic Art Price Guide, and this very magazine. The CBG was great for revealing the current marketplace for artwork, the Guide was educational about Glen’s favorite piece of connecting with dealers, original art is the inked and TJKC was a sign to me version of this Devil that I wasn’t alone in my Dinosaur #4 two-page spread. feeling—still hard to fully describe—that there is just something different about Kirby artwork. The best way I can put it is: a sign of great art is that it’s never finished. We keep needing to discuss it, to pull it out of storage and look at it again to better understand why it speaks to us. I love that Colan art, but there’s a reason there aren’t 88 issues of The Gene Colan Collector. At a certain point, you kind of crack the code. Kirby, though…. And though the desire is encoded in my DNA, I do admit there’s

a curious leap from “Wow, this is good artwork” to “I want to own that artwork.” There are whole dissertations written on the psychological desire to own things (I recommend Werner Muensterberger’s Collecting: An Unruly Passion), but in brief, having Kirby in the room with me means I am belly-up to genius; to immortality. Here is work that will outlive us. Of course, no matter how close my nose gets to the page, I’ll never actually be that genius, nor will I fully understand it. Every once in a while, even decades into it, I get a jolt, as when Erik Larsen explained to me how Kirby’s crazy perspective causes the viewer to get pulled into his scenes. I have written extensively about Jack here, in mainstream magazines like Playboy, and in museum catalogs of his work. But I haven’t ever told tales of Kirby collecting. The process of pursuing, buying, owning, and selling things that have a mysterious meaning to you is a powerful one, and the path to having a trophy on the wall is more roller coaster than scenic drive. When I finally had a little money in the bank, I was thirty—it was 1994, and having a little money was still a viable way of getting artwork. I didn’t intend to make it an open-ended pursuit. No, I was rereading my old comics and figured that it would be fun to own just one page of artwork from my favorite series. So I called a dealer and asked the most inadvertently hilarious question of my collecting career: Did he have any pages from the Galactus Trilogy? Hah-hah-hah. I didn’t know. One of the strange things about collecting Jack’s art, as opposed to almost any other comic artist, is that much of his A+

Mark Evanier

JACK F.A.Q.s

A column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby

2023 WonderCon Kirby Tribute Panel Held on Saturday, March 25, 2023 at the Anaheim Convention Center

Featuring (left to right) moderator Mark Evanier, Marv Wolfman, John Morrow, Paul S. Levine, and Steve Leialoha Transcribed by Stefan Dogaru, and copyedited by Mark Evanier and John Morrow. You can view video of the panel at: Part one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YcALjHLFgo Part two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDSi_zFSaRA

[below and throughout] A flurry of photos from the San Diego ComicCon, from Shel Dorf’s archives. Frame 1 shows Marv Wolfman peering over Jack’s head as Mark Evanier looks on. Frame 3 includes (left to right) Steve Leialoha, Marv Wolfman, Jack Kirby, unknown female, Roz Kirby, Len Wein, Mark Evanier, and Marty Pasko. All are from the 1979 Comic-Con, except frame 6 is Jack with Len Wein in 1978.

MARK EVANIER: Jack Kirby was, among other things, someone who never stood on pretenses. They called him “The King,” but he never talked to you like he was a king. He talked to you like an equal, or maybe like you were more important than he was. If you came to the San Diego Con any time before Jack passed away, except for one year when he was in the hospital, he was there at the convention, and he would talk to anyone about anything. And while you were talking to him at his table, he would stand up, because you were standing up. Even though he was much older than you were, if you were standing up, he gave you the courtesy of standing up and talking to you, and he was not a tall man. Unlike certain people who are short, Jack was willing to bend his neck with you. There are certain people you meet who won’t do that. He acknowledged you were tall—and if you were showing him artwork, he treated you like an artist. If you were showing him writing, he treated you like a writer. And if you were just someone who loved his comics, he kept saying, “Thank you, I thank you,” over and over again, because he was very grateful to everyone who loved his work. You could learn a lot being around him and you just felt smarter, and more creative—you might

not be smarter or more creative, but you felt that way in his presence. He never put people down. Marv has been nodding throughout this, because he knows that was the case. Folks, this is Marv Wolfman. [applause] I guess you know what he’s done. This is John Morrow, publisher of the Jack Kirby Collector. [applause] He has a new book he’ll show you in a moment. This is Paul S. Levine, who has been the attorney for the Jack Kirby Trust, and the Rosalind Kirby Trust, and also— they keep changing the name of it, but he’s a lawyer that I wish Jack had twenty years earlier in his life. [applause] And on the far end is the eminent artist, Mr. Steve Leialoha. [applause] We’re going to talk a bit about Jack and we’ll take questions later. John, why don’t you show them what you brought? JOHN MORROW: Okay. It won’t actually be in stores for about two more months. We got some pre-release copies in just for the show. We originally did a Captain Victory Graphite Edition, which was this nice re-presentation of Jack’s first Captain Victory issues, but reproduced from his pencil art. And a few years later, we did a Silver Star Graphite Edition, which is all six issues of Jack’s Silver Star reproduced from his pencil art. Here to continue the

tradition is—this one’s really fun—a Destroyer Duck Graphite Edition. It’s in hardcover, it’s beautiful, it’s all five issues of Steve Gerber and Jack Kirby’s really fun, crazy and bitingly funny Destroyer Duck series. Mr. Evanier did the introduction for it, which outlines the history of what was going on, and talks about his friend Steve Gerber, who was one of the most unique and creative writers ever in comics. And in an interesting little twist, Mr. Leialoha here, I believe, did some beak corrections on Destroyer Duck in this? [Steve Leialoha laughs]

[below] Jack’s cover pencils for Destroyer Duck #1 (1982), showing the manslaying mallard’s original brass knuckles (well, brass flipper tips, I guess?). This is one of the many revelations you find in TwoMorrows’ new Destroyer Duck Graphite Edition, now shipping and in stores.

STEVE LEIALOHA [left]: Minor adjustments. Probably my major claim to fame is, I put little tiny rivets on the logo. MORROW: Oh, really? Well, good job on the rivets. Those are really nice. [laughter] So we have a few copies of it here at the convention. But [pointing to Evanier] this gentleman clued me in on all kinds of amazing things about Steve Gerber I didn’t know, and I’m just thrilled to death that we were able to get this thing produced, and Mark helped a whole lot on this book, so…. EVANIER: While we’re on the subject, I’d like to clear up something. Mr. Leialoha, did you ink the cover of Destroyer Duck #1? LEIALOHA: I did not. It’s amazing to me that people can’t tell who this is, but there you go. EVANIER: There is a self-proclaimed Jack Kirby expert who claims that Neal Adams did not ink the cover to this comic, even though the publisher Dean Mullaney watched Neal ink it [laughter]—and that Steve Leialoha inked it, and that when Steve or I mention that Neal Adams did it, Steve and I are lying, and we’re covering this up. [laughter] LEIALOHA: I remember— EVANIER: Apparently he also thinks Q’Anon inked it. I don’t understand it. [laughter] LEIALOHA: —Neal also did the color, too. MORROW: And, and if I may, we’ve got Neal’s

a graphic novel? I’m doing these books for Simon & Schuster and I can arrange for us to own the copyright on the story, I think.” Jack owed Marvel a certain number of pages on his contract, so he decided to do this in the one-in-a-thousand chance that someone would look at this graphic novel and say, “Hey, that should be the basis of the movie.” And Stan and Jack could sell the movie rights, because they held the copyright on it. The creation of the story was a mess. They fought a lot, Jack was unhappy with the way it came out, because there are all these givens. Stan would say, “Well, for the movie to be a movie, it has to have this in it.” And Jack said, “No, it doesn’t have to have that.” “Yes, we’ve got to put that in.” Which is why you may see a lot of unpublished pages. [See pages 36–37 of this issue!] Again, Jack was drawing pages that weren’t used, and he wasn’t paid for. The story was finished, nobody liked it, movie was not made, but it used up part of Jack’s quota for Marvel. Over here, yes. AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: These personal stories are wonderful, and it’s also really wonderful to hear everyone’s take on Jack’s very distinct voice, and I was curious—if you were casting the movie, who would you cast as Jack and Roz? Past or present, anyone. EVANIER: I would fight to not have that movie made. [laughter] That would be the first point. I don’t know, I keep seeing people mentioned—somebody mentioned Patton Oswalt. [laughter] But I don’t think that anyone would say, “We gotta get someone—who looks like Jack, and talks like Jack?” That’s not how movies work. You know, they don’t necessarily—Michael Keaton played Ray Kroc, looking nothing like Ray Kroc, or sounding nothing like Ray Kroc. They just hire actors because they’re bankable, not because they resemble the subject matter.

[above] Leialoha’s inked cover for 1977’s Baycon program book, and [below] its progress report.

MORROW: Oh, the Ikaris cover? That’s gorgeous. EVANIER: We have time for a question or two. AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: I’m curious about one of the harder to find books that Jack put out—and I think it was the last time he worked with Stan Lee—the Silver Surfer graphic novel. I’m wondering about the origins of that, and why it hasn’t been reprinted. EVANIER: It has been reprinted at least once, I believe, and I don’t think Marvel had the right to do that, actually. Basically, what happened was that Jack was—this is a long story, I’ll try to make it quick. Someone had bought the rights to make a Silver Surfer motion picture, it was a gentleman named Jeff-something. I can’t remember his name, he was Olivia Newton John’s boyfriend, and based on the success of something she’d done, he was able to sell a studio on doing the Silver Surfer movie. They developed a couple of scripts which weren’t working. Stan at some point said, “Hey, maybe I could get a piece of this, or we could do something.” He went to Jack and said, “How about if we do 18

MORROW: So, you’re saying you’d cast Brad Pitt as Jack, then? [laughter] EVANIER: Sure, why not? [laughter] I think the one essence you’d have to have is, you’d have to get a guy who was tough and small, because Jack had a lot of energy in him, and I think it was germane to his attitude that he was not six-foot-three. He was a strong man; physically, very strong. I mean, he was very healthy up until the last couple years of his life, but I don’t know. Anybody ever thought about who, if they have to make a movie of Jack, who they should cast? WOLFMAN: What’s his name, Pesci? He was in Goodfellas—. EVANIER: Joe Pesci. [laughter] Joe Pesci has some of those qualities, yes. Anyway, we’re gonna wrap this up. We’re gonna have another one of these in San Diego. We’re going to have another one of these at every damn convention I go to as long as they’ll let me do these panels. [applause] I feel very privileged that I got to know this man, and I feel obligated to share every single damn thing I observed about him with people, and when I finish this book, you’ll be amazed at some of the things that I observed that are not public knowledge. I think it’s safe now to reveal some of them. Would you thank Mr. Marv Wolfman? John Morrow. Paul Levine. Steve Leialoha. [applause] Okay, thank you all, we’ll see you in San Diego. [applause] H

Innerview

More With Marv Sample Headline

Marv Wolfman interview conducted by e-mail in October 2022 by John Morrow (Thanks to Richard Kolkman for suggesting some of the questions for Marv)

[below] As editor of Marvel’s Nova comic, Marv likely chose Jack to draw the covers of #5 [Jan. 1977, below] and #7 [March 1977, next page]. Jack also drew #4’s cover (bottom).

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Where were you born, and where did you grow up? MARV WOLFMAN: Brooklyn, New York. I lived there until I was 13, then we moved to Flushing, Queens, NY.

MARV: No idea. My parents never really talked about those things. As for ribbing? Kids. Weird name. So, of course—and lots of howling.

TJKC: What is the etymology of your last name? And did you get much ribbing over it as a kid?

TJKC: How’d you and Len Wein first meet? MARV: I had a letter published in Mystery In Space which included my home address. Ron Fradkin, a comics fan who lived in Levittown, Long Island, got my phone number and called, as he felt we lived near each other and thought we could get together. In truth, Flushing and Levittown were nowhere near each other, but due to the power of unbelievable coincidence, my sister lived in Levittown and I was actually going to stay with her while my parents went on vacation. So the next day I took the train to Levittown and met Ron and his close friend, Len.

Photo by Scott Edelman

TJKC: What was your first in-person encounter with Jack Kirby, and was Len there for it as well? MARV: Len had previously met Jack—I don’t remember how—and said he was going to Jack’s house, and did I want to come? I obviously said yes, and afterward we visited Jack either together or separately. It was pretty amazing for a young comics fan to meet someone like Jack. He and Roz could not have been nicer. TJKC: In your essay that ran in New Gods #1 (“A Visit with Jack Kirby”), you stated

Gallery

FAN SERVICE

[right] Mister Miracle #5, page 15 (Dec. 1976) As Joe Simon said in his interview we ran last issue: “[Steranko] came to my house out in Long Island, opened up his trunk, and a bunch of comic books fell out. It was filled to the top with comic books.” So while we think of him as a top professional, Steranko started as a fan like you and me. Jack heard his tales of days as an escape artist, and at least indirectly formed ideas for Mister Miracle from them. [next page] Our Fighting Forces #153, page 16 (March 1975) As a teenager, Kirby rescued a science-fiction pulp floating toward a sewer drain, and was captivated by the stories in it—but in his tough neighborhood growing up, you’d get beaten up if you were caught reading such things. So we’d assume Rodney Rumpkin is sort of an amalgam of sci-fi and comics fans he’d met over the years, who he felt a kinship with for their being ostracized. [page 26] Demon #7, page 10 (March 1973) See Sean Kleefeld’s “Incidental Iconography” column this issue for details on how Witchboy was based on a comics fan! [page 27] Mister Miracle #9, page 13 (Aug. 1972) While there are superficial similarities in their appearance, I think Himon was more likely based on Shel Dorf because of how he shepherded young comics fans to Jack’s house, while Himon mentored the youth of Apokolips.

Kirby injecting collectors into his work, with commentary by John Morrow

Twice-told Kirby covers, with commentary by Shane Foley

INNERVIEW

The King of Monsters Speaks

GLENN KOLEEDA: What were the earliest monsters? JACK KIRBY: There were monsters in the pulp magazines that preceded the comics. Before super-heroes, it was straight sciencefiction. They used innovative illustrations (like theatrical monsters) in order to sell magazines. Don’t forget that the idea was not only do first rate artwork and to utilize first rate imaginative ideas, but to sell the magazines! The pulps let us sell our illustrations and the pulp magazine itself. Also, they required only one illustration per story, and, of course, a painted cover.

young heroes, like The Challengers of the Unknown. They were a fighting team. The basis of the art is always the same, it’s storytelling art. That’s what comics are... they allow you to tell an entire story in twenty-some pages. Comics allow you to do a “silent movie”of sorts. I always try to bring the story to an exciting climax. If I insert a monster into that climax, I do it in a variety of ways. Is that monster victorious? Is he defeated? Does he wander off and become a fable? King Kong, for instance, is an undying myth. One sees King Kong ripping up the jungle, aiming his fist at the world. This great ape monster will never die.

GLENN: Why do you think so many collectors and fans think that Fin Fang Foam stands out above the rest? JACK: Fin Fang Foom was a monster with human qualities. When a monster is given these qualities, it acquires equal status with any human character, and therefore becomes interesting in that manner. The interesting part of this is that the reader knows the monster is not human (and can’t be classified as such), yet it is portrayed in a human-like manner. Fin Fan Foom was like this, sort of “semi-human.” He had clothes and was angered by insults. In acknowledging Fin Fang Foom, we acknowledge something that is very fearsome in us. It’s similar to Dracula, who is human too, or semi-human in his own way. We acknowledge him in a human fashion, yet we are frightened of him. It’s our vulnerabilities that sell magazines—because the writer asks himself what we are afraid of, and puts an image in place of that question, and it becomes a monster. If it’s a good one like Dracula, it becomes a classic. It’s always been done that way. Dracula is an excellent case in point. The peasants would sit around the fire and tell the stories. The writers would record the stories, and that’s how the classics were born. We still read these stories today.

GLENN: I know you’re planning some new Kirby monsters for the 1990s. Which monsters do you think will be popular? JACK: I think any one of my monsters that was part of a well written and well told story would work today. Those old monsters sold a lot of comic magazines. Back then, the comic business was a shaky affair at best. Those were the very beginnings of Marvel. There were two dominant publishers, and I bounced between both of them. My new monsters will be drawn in various and different ways in order to maintain interest in the stories. Of course, the public might grow to like one monster more than another; then I will concentrate on him. There’s a million stories left to be told. Monsters have a mystery all their own. You have to interpret that mystery, and that’s the bottom line. H

GLENN: What were the inspirations for some of the monsters you came up with in the Fifties and Sixties? JACK: The initial inspiration was always storytelling and the way the monster frightens us. Readers are always intrigued by the monster’s behavior, like King Kong, which is an eternal classic. We tried to do the same thing with our monsters. There wasn’t a person of that period who didn’t see Godzilla, re-runs of Frankenstein, or all the other great horror classics. GLENN: Was this particular period a time when monsters were popular? JACK: Monsters were always popular! Your best bet in storytelling is to create a new monster, and, if it’s good, nobody will ever forget it. You’ll have readers eternally. GLENN: Do you have any favorite monsters? JACK: I like them all. I like a monster who is well drawn, well written, and well acted. I like a monster whose creator wants to reach out to me, in some fashion. If I’m fascinated with his creation, my reaction will fulfill his ambition. GLENN: Tell me about inker Dick Ayers. JACK: He had a very good, strong line. I rarely did it myself because it took me from my writing and drawing. Others had thin, crisp lines, and Dick had good, strong lines. The inker could sell your work as well as you could, thereby making it as impressive to the reader as possible. GLENN: What about your early Silver Age work at DC? JACK: It was mainly science-fiction concepts. I did a lot of

Another drawing from Roz’s Valentine’s Day sketchbook.

Foundations

Here’s Simon & Kirby’s Boy Explorers story “The Isle Where Women Rule” from Terry and the Pirates #3 and #4 (April–June 1947). Art restoration and color by Christopher Fama.

with their hands, using their artists tools and a lot of heart and soul. I spoke with Conrad after I received the page and he said, “Let me know when you grow tired of the page; we’ll have you trade it in for something new.” “I’m not going to ever get tired of this page.” Conrad laughed and said, “Everybody gets bored and wants to trade for something new.” I never got bored, and as you can see, the page is still in my collection twenty-five years later. There are few words to describe the joy I feel every time I look at what is one of Kirby’s most cleverly constructed and dramatic covers (Captain America #198, 1976). I still have the auction printout that shows I beat out a handful of the top dealers and collectors for this prize. I never met Jack Kirby, but it took several years after his passing to learn all I could about him, and it’s enriched my life. He was a swell human being. When I look at Jack’s work, I feel a sense of love and pride. This is my way of salvaging redemption for thinking too much about the comic books, and not taking the time to read about guests in attendance at that SDCC. I could’ve met the man face-to-face. The King of Comics is gone, but he will never be forgotten. H

Collector:

A Singapore Kirby Fan... ...who wishes to remain anonymous

eaving aside the Marvel penchant for alliteration, the fondly remembered description “Jack King Kirby” was one that never rang truer. I might be biased, but an objective view of the matter—not only in terms of quantum of output but (more importantly) the quality thereof—puts Jack Kirby right up there as, indeed, the King of Comics. Growing up in pre-independence Singapore, I was blessed to catch part of the Marvel revolution. It came a little late though. DC comics and the usual English “suspects,” the Dandy and Beano, were what I first grew up with. It was only by a happenstance of watching a copy of the Amazing Spider-Man being passed around in the school bus, that I realized that there was this “new” company that was producing comics that were quite different from any that I had encountered before. That having been said, comics were a luxury then. For the price of a comic, one could have a meal—even a substantial meal. Income levels were also not generally high then. So it took a really long time to save up for even a single issue. And even then, it was read to “death”—little did any of us know how valuable they would be. Ironically, perhaps, our “destruction” of them was— in part at least—necessary to create that scarcity that would result in such value, even as we derived our own “value” from them. I digress, but with the obsession nowadays with encasing vintage comics in plastic cases instead of reading them, and putting them on the altar

of proud display instead of using them in the way they were originally intended, there is a sense in which the idealism and romance of comics has somehow been sullied. But that is another story for another time.

My First Encounter with the King

This essay is about the King and I, and the very first time I encountered his work was serendipitous. It was that rare occasion when my dear mother brought me out downtown on an errand. I was a well-behaved child and was happy to have that occasional outing when I would be treated to a good meal and—yes—possibly a comic or two. That particular occasion was particularly “bountiful.” Comics were usually secured by clothes pegs on plastic or metal clothes lines (so much for mint condition books!). This time around, though, they were on the floor—beside a stack of newspapers. I could not contain my excitement. It must have been evident to my Mum, too, because she allowed me to purchase three books—probably as a result of my evident excitement at encountering Marvel comics for the very first time. I still recall that I was beside myself with joy! Those were, in fact, my very first Marvel books—they were Fantastic Four #44, Daredevil #10, and Avengers #21. Of the latter two, Daredevil #10 had a Wally Wood drawn cover, whilst the Avengers #21 cover had Wood inks over Kirby pencils. Indeed, the 66

by the great Joe Sinnott (to me, Kirby’s best inker ever on the FF). I was not to know till many years later that this was Joe’s first inking work on the FF since issue #5. I also solved the mystery of the inker for the cover several years later as well—I had always assumed that the inker for the cover was the same as for the interior pages. It is often the case, but not this time around—somehow, the inks on the cover seemed, for want of a better word, “thinner,” not having those bold Sinnott strokes one found in the interior pages. When I found out that the inker for the cover of that issue was Vinnie Colletta, the penny dropped. Vince Colletta, whilst a great artist and inker, was reputed not to be the most diligent in the world, although I think that perhaps that criticism was a little exaggerated, because I thought his inking on Kirby in the Thor series was pretty good (for interested readers, I would strongly recommend Robert Bryant’s The Thin Black Line: Perspectives on Vince Colletta, Comics’ Most Controversial Inker, available digitally at www.twomorrows.com). All these random musings came, of course, many years later. To this child, that particular issue of the FF was magic. I had never seen anything like it—heroes, villains, great dialogue, and wonderful images, all melded into one slugfest involving the Dragon Man and Gorgon. What worried me, though, was how to obtain the next issue, when the Inhumans were formally introduced. As mentioned, I did not get out of the house much. To cut a long story short, I somehow managed to obtain copies of the subsequent issues, so I got to find out what happened subsequently. Coincidentally (and most unfortunately), I missed most of the Galactus Trilogy, because after issue #47, my next issue was #50, and then that glorious standalone story in #51 (entitled “This Man … This Monster!”), after which came the Black Panther issues (which I was also fortunate in obtaining and reading). The magic of Kirby back then had a multipronged effect on me. First (and perhaps most obviously), it was the sheer entertainment that brought me into another world altogether (at least for a little while) and which consisted of such wonderful artwork. I also believe that his work assisted—both consciously as well as subconsciously—in fueling my imagination, a process that is so vital, especially when one is young. Secondly, the Stan Lee dialogue was—contrary to current beliefs then in Singapore—actually very educational, as my English vocabulary increased by leaps and bounds (even if one did not know the precise meaning of some “big” words which Stan was apt to use from time to time, one could guess precisely because of the context provided by the artwork and storyline). Thirdly, there was that sense of adventure and realism that DC comics did not possess. All in all, it was a watershed experience for me. I did not even know about original comic art until sometime in the 1990s. By then, Singapore was certainly a more affluent society, but even at prices then, original comic art was extremely expensive. I did purchase a piece or two then, but in the days prior to the Internet, the best pieces were already snapped up by the time my snail mail wended its way to the US. I did try to collect at least a page from my first Marvel issues. That odyssey, which spanned several decades, is Fantastic Four #44, page 15 (Nov. 1965). On the next page is page 6 from that issue. a story in itself. I want to focus on just a part of

interior pages for both these issues were also Wood-centered, as Daredevil #10 had lush Wood inks over Bob Powell pencils (there is still a debate on that too by comics nerds), whilst Avengers #21 had Wood inks over Don Heck pencils (no arguments, I note, on that score). I must honestly confess that I cannot recall whether there was a fourth book (possibly X-Men #14 with Wood inks over Kirby pencils for the cover, and Kirby layouts as well as Werner Roth pencils and Vince Colletta inks for the interior pages), but I am very sure that the aforementioned three books were in fact purchased for me by my mother on that particular occasion. But it is Fantastic Four #44 I would like to talk about here, because it was not only the very first Fantastic Four book I read, but also the very first Kirby artwork I encountered. The cover was striking—a white background with the FF being literally “tied up” by Medusa’s hair as the front perspective presented the Inhuman called Gorgon (back to the reader) stomping his feet, spraying shards of concrete into the air in the process, with the Dragon Man breathing out fire at the back, to boot. It also happened to be inked

Collector:

Steve Kriozere

Television writer and producer

met Jack in person only one time, but what a special time that was. It was my first trip to the San Diego Comic-Con. To say I was excited would be a serious understatement. I’d been to comic conventions in the past, but never the big one. My fellow comic book enthusiast friend Alan joined me on the road trip down to San Diego from Los Angeles. We didn’t have tickets to the con, but back then (1993) you could work as a volunteer for two hours, then get in free. Sounded like a great deal to us cheapskates—plus, more money to spend on comics! Stepping foot onto the con floor was electric, sensory overload to the max, in the best way possible. It was the height of Image-mania at SDCC: Huge lines with

rabid fans hoping to get their multiple copies of Spawn or Shadowhawk signed by their favorite ex-Marvel artists. While navigating the packed convention, we eventually found ourselves in a much quieter section of the floor. Finally, some fresh air! Alan and I then strolled past a table where a man sat alone, all by himself. No line. No hoopla. No loud blasting music. No rabid fans. It was none other than the King of Comics himself… Jack Kirby! And suddenly, there were two rabid fans, as Alan and myself, for whatever ridiculous reason, started bowing like Wayne and Garth in Wayne’s World and chanting: “We’re not worthy! We’re not worthy!” The King smiled. I highly doubt Jack saw the movie, but he got the humor. Glad I brought along my trusty 100 film camera and hadn’t used up all my shots yet. That’s where the photo above is from. Roz was there too, and made it into the shot in the background. And the guy in the Daffy Duck shirt… no clue. But maybe the publication of this photo will uncover their secret identity? [Editor’s note: I’m pretty sure that’s the late Steve Sherman!] Sadly, my first San Diego Comic-Con was Jack’s last, as he passed away the following year. Since then, I have gone to every SDCC. The days of working as a volunteer for two hours to get a free SDCC badge are long gone, but the spirit of Jack Kirby is as alive as ever, in every single direction you look: A con attendee cosplaying as Ego the Living Planet, a standing room only Avengers panel in Hall H, a sweet NM/M copy of 1st Issue Special #6 (The Dingbats of Danger Street) hiding in a back-issue bin, or the original art end page to 2001: A Space Odyssey #8 [left, July 1977), which was the first appearance of X-51, a.k.a. Mister Machine, a.k.a. Machine Man. Thanks for everything, Jack; the world is a better place because you were here. H [See Jack’s pencils to this page in Kirby Five-Oh!] 72

MY ARTISTIC JOURNEY WITH KIRBY rom nearly the first moment that I picked up a pencil, I began to draw sequentially. Some of that inspiration was as a result of seeing N.C. Wyeth’s illustrations from Treasure Island at age four. The fact that there was a story behind each lush painting impressed itself upon my imagination, because each illustration had a caption below describing its intention. From there, it was a logical jump to comic strips. I’m not quite sure which comic strip or magazine I saw first, probably a Dell Disney or Western, but I quickly began to imitate the storytelling continuity of a series of panels. What I am certain of is that the first Kirby story I saw was “Taboo, The Thing From the Murky Swamp” in Strange Tales #75 (June 1960). 1 This page shows very clearly why Kirby’s

style etched itself so profoundly on my nine-year-old brain. We see the creature looming from a tall vertical first panel, while its left arm protrudes into the space of panel two, bringing the reader’s eye rightward to the mud-soaked leg of the narrator. I was quick to notice that Kirby used splashes of mud to move the focus around the page, and leading to the final panel that showed the hero enveloped in mud and yanked violently to the right. I began to haunt my local newsstand, looking for more Kirby comics. I soon found a magazine whose cover was laid out sequentially, something I’d never before seen. It was Rawhide Kid #28 (June 1962), designed with three panels of classic Kirby continuity. 2 Here, we see the artist foreshadow the story by displaying Jelko’s mastery of marksmanship, shooting out a lit match in the first panel, plugging a coin several times in the second, and finally turning his revolver on the Kid. Notice how the hand in panels one and two balance the page by gesturing towards the Rawhide Kid. 73