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TJKC #24: (68 pgs.) BATTLES! KIRBY’S original art fight, JIM SHOOTER interview, NEW GODS #6 (“Glory Boat”) pencils, FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE, more! Kirby/ Mignola cover. $9 US
TJKC #33: (84 pgs.) TABLOID ALL-FANTASTIC FOUR issue! MARK EVANIER column, miniinterviews with everyone who worked on FF after Kirby, STAN LEE interview, 40 pgs. of FF PENCILS, more! $13 US
TJKC #40: (84 pgs.) TABLOID “WORLD THAT’S COMING!” EVANIER column, KAMANDI, OMAC, tribute panel with CHABON, PINI, GOLDBERG, BUSCEMA, LIEBER, LEE, ART GALLERY, more! $13 US
TJKC #32: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! KIRBY interview, new MARK EVANIER column, plus Kirby’s Least Known Work: DAYS OF THE MOB #2, THE HORDE, BLACK HOLE, SOUL LOVE, PRISONER, more! $13 US
TJKC #39: (84 pgs.) TABLOID FAN FAVORITES! EVANIER column, INHUMANS, HULK, SILVER SURFER, tribute panel with ROMITA, AYERS, LEVITZ, McFARLANE, TRIMPE, ART GALLERY, more! $13 US
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TJKC #41: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! 1970s MARVEL, including Jack’s last year on FF, EVANIER column, GIORDANO interview, tribute panel with GIBBONS, RUDE, SIMONSON, RYAN, ART GALLERY, more! $13 US
TJKC #34: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! JOE SIMON & CARMINE INFANTINO interviews, MARK EVANIER column, unknown 1950s concepts, CAPTAIN AMERICA pencils, KIRBY/ TOTH cover, more! $13 US
TJKC #42: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! Spotlights Kirby at ‘70s DC Comics, from Jimmy Olsen to Spirit World! Huge Kirby pencil art gallery, covers inked by KEVIN NOWLAN & MURPHY ANDERSON! $13 US
TJKC #35: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! GREAT ESCAPES with MISTER MIRACLE, comparing KIRBY & HOUDINI, Kirby Tribute Panel with EVANIER, EISNER, BUSCEMA, ROMITA, ROYER, & JOHNNY CARSON! $13 US
TJKC #43: (84 pgs.) TABLOID! Kirby Award winners STEVE & GARY SHERMAN intv., 1966 KIRBY intv., Kirby pencils vs. Sinnott inks from TALES OF SUSPENSE #93, Kirby cover inked by SINNOTT! $13 US
TJKC #36: (84 pgs.) TABLOID ALL-THOR issue! MARK EVANIER column, SINNOTT & ROMITA JR. interviews, unseen KIRBY INTV., ART GALLERY, FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE, more! $13 US
TJKC #27: (72 pages) KIRBY INFLUENCE Part One! KIRBY and ALEX ROSS interviews, KIRBY FAMILY Roundtable, all-star lineup of pros discuss Kirby’s influence on them! Kirby / Timm cover. $9 US
SUBSCRIBE: 4 tabloid issues: $40 Standard, $56 First Class (Canada: $64, Elsewhere: $68 Surface, $84 Airmail).
VOLUME 1 (240-page Trade Paperback, reprinting #1-9) $29 US
TJKC #26: (72 pgs.) GODS! COLOR NEW GODS concept drawings, KIRBY & WALTER SIMONSON interviews, FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE, BIBLE INFLUENCES, THOR, MR. MIRACLE, more! $9 US
SILVER STAR: GRAPHITE EDITION (160 pgs.) Kirby’s sixissue “Visual Novel” for Pacific Comics is reproduced from his powerful, uninked pencil art! Includes Kirby’s illustrated movie screenplay, never-seen sketches, pin-ups, and more from his final great comics series! $24 US
TJKC #25: (100 pgs.) SIMON & KIRBY! KIRBY, SIMON, & JOHN SEVERIN interviews, CAPTAIN AMERICA pencils, unused BOY EXPLORERS story, history of MAINLINE COMICS, more! $9 US
KIRBY UNLEASHED: (60 pgs.) New, completely remastered and updated version of the scarce 1971 portfolio/biography, with 8 extra black-and-white and 8 extra color pages, including Jack’s color GODS posters, plus other art not seen in the 1971 version. $24 US
TJKC #23: (68 pgs.) Interviews with KIRBY, DENNY O’NEIL & TRACY KIRBY, more FF #49 pencils, FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE, unused 10-page SOUL LOVE story, more! $9 US
CAPTAIN VICTORY: GRAPHITE EDITION (52 pgs.) Kirby’s 1975 Graphic Novel in original pencil form. Unseen art, screenplay, more! Proceeds go to preserving the 5000-page Kirby Archives! $9 US
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H! MARC N I S P I SH
The KIRBY COLLECTOR (edited by JOHN MORROW) celebrates the life & career of the “King” of comics through interviews with Kirby & his contemporaries, feature articles, & rare & unseen Kirby art. Now in tabloid format, with Kirby’s art at even larger size.
TJKC #44: (84 pgs.) TABLOID MYTHS & LEGENDS issue! MARK EVANIER column, unseen KIRBY interview, ART GALLERY with DEMON, THOR, ATLAS, Kirby cover inked by MATT WAGNER! $13 US
TJKC #37: (84 pgs.) TABLOID HOW TO DRAW THE KIRBY WAY issue! MARK EVANIER column, MIKE ROYER on inking, KIRBY interview, ART GALLERY, analysis of Kirby’s art techniques, more! $13 US
TJKC #30: (68 pgs.) ‘80s WORK! Interviews with ALAN MOORE & Kirby Estate’s ROBERT KATZ, HUNGER DOGS, SUPER POWERS, SILVER STAR, ANIMATION work, more! $9 US
VOLUME 4 (240-page Trade Paperback, reprinting #16-19) $29 US
VOLUME 2 (160-page Trade Paperback, reprinting #10-12) $22 US
TJKC #45: (84 pgs.) TABLOID TIME MACHINE! EVANIER column, intv. with son NEAL KIRBY, two complete ‘50s stories, PAST and FUTURE art galleries, Tribute Panel, 3-D KIRBY COVER! $13 US
TJKC #38: (84 pgs.) TABLOID KIRBY: STORYTELLER! MARK EVANIER column, JOE SINNOTT on inking, SWIPES, talks with JACK DAVIS, PAUL GULACY, HERNANDEZ BROS., ART GALLERY, more! $13 US
TJKC #31: (84 pgs.) TABLOID FORMAT! Wraparound KIRBY/ ADAMS cover, KURT BUSIEK & LADRONN interviews, new MARK EVANIER column, favorite 2-PAGE SPREADS, 2001 Treasury, more! $13 US
NEW! VOLUME 5 (224-page Trade Paperback, reprinting #20-22) $29 US
IL! IN APR SHIPS
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COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR, VOLS. 1-5
These TRADE PAPERBACKS reprint the first 22 sold-out issues of THE J ACK KIRBY COLLECTOR! Each volume includes OVER 30 EXTRA pieces of unpublished Kirby art!
(100-page magazine) $9 US
(100-page magazine) $9 US
WRITE NOW! #12 (APRIL)
(80-page magazine) $9 US
ROUGH STUFF #1 COMIC BOOK NERD (JUNE) #1 (JUNE)
(96-page magazine) $9 US
PAUL LEVITZ on comics writing, KYLE B AKER reveals his working methods, Machine Teen’s MIKE STEVE ENGLEHART’s thoughts on HAWTHORNE on his work, writing for today’s market, survey of TOP COMICS EDITORS on Making Perspective Work For You how to submit work to them, by B LEVINS and MANLEY, Marvel Editor ANDY SCHMIDT on Photoshop techniques with ALB ERTO RUIZ, Adult Swim’s the how to break in, T. CAMPB ELL on VENTURE B ROTHERS, and more! writing for webcomics, plus a new GEORGE PÉREZ cover! Edited by New KYLE B AKER cover! Edited DANNY FINGEROTH. by MIKE MANLEY.
DRAW! #12 (MARCH)
REDESIGNED and EXPANDED version of the groundbreaking WRITE NOW! #8 / DRAW! #9 crossover! DANNY FINGEROTH & MIKE MANLEY show step-by-step how to develop a new comic, from script and roughs to pencils, inks, colors, lettering—it even guides you through printing and distribution, & the finished 8-page color comic is included, so you can see their end result! PLUS: over 30 pages of ALL-NEW material, including “full” and “Marvelstyle” scripts, a critique of their new character and comic from an editor’s point of view, new tips on coloring, new expanded writing lessons, and more! (108-page trade paperback) $18 US
HOW TO CREATE COMICS, FROM SCRIPT TO PRINT (JUNE)
One of the finest draftsmen in comics, spotlighted with a COMPREHENSIVE CAREERSPANNING INTERVIEW, rare and UNSEEN WORK, and extensive GALLERY OF EYE-POPPING ART! (128-page trade paperback) $19 US
MODERN MASTERS VOL. 7: JOHN BYRNE (APRIL)
TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Dr. • Raleigh, NC 27614 • 919/449-0344 • FAX 919/449-0327 • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com
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JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Four issues US: $40 Standard, $56 First Class (Canada: $64, Elsewhere: $68 Surface, $84 Airmail). BACK ISSUE!: Six issues US: $36 Standard, $54 First Class (Canada: $66, Elsewhere: $72 Surface, $96 Airmail). DRAW! or WRITE NOW!: Four issues US: $24 Standard, $36 First Class (Canada: $44, Elsewhere: $48 Surface, $64 Airmail). ALTER EGO: Twelve issues US: $72 Standard, $108 First Class (Canada: $132, Elsewhere: $144 Surface, $192 Airmail). FOR A SIX-ISSUE ALTER EGO SUBSCRIPTION, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!
SUBSCRIPTIONS:
Compiles material from issues #3 Spotlights UNPUBLISHED penciled PETE VON SHOLLY’s side-splitting pages, preliminary sketches, parody of the fan press, including and #4 of DRAW!, including Collects the first two issues of such publications as WHIZZER, ALTER EGO, plus 30 pages of NEW tutorials by, and interviews with, detailed layouts, and unused inked versions from artists throughout the COMICS URINAL, ULTRA ERIK LARSEN (savage penciling), MATERIAL! New JLA Jam Cover EGO, COMICS B UYER’S GUISE, comics history. #1 features ALAN DICK GIORDANO (inking by KUBERT, PÉREZ, GIORDANO, B AGGED ISSUE!, SCRAWL!, DAVIS, GEORGE PÉREZ, KEVIN techniques), BRET BLEVINS TUSKA, CARDY, FRADON, & COMIC B OOK ARTISTE, and (drawing the figure in action, and NOWLAN, JOSÉ LUIS GARCÍAGIELLA, new sections featuring LÓPEZ, ARTHUR ADAMS, JOHN more, as we unabashedly poke figure composition), KEVIN scarce art by GIL KANE, WILL BYRNE, WALTER SIMONSON, fun at ourselves, our competitors, NOWLAN (penciling and inking), EISNER, CARMINE INFANTINO, and BRUCE TIMM! Includes and you, our loyal readers! Go to MIKE MANLEY (how-to demo on MIKE SEKOWSKY, MURPHY www.twomorro ws .com for a commentary on the art, backWeb Comics), DAVE COOPER ANDERSON, DICK DILLIN, & more! ground information, plus before sneak preview in March! (digital coloring tutorial), and (192-page trade paperback) more! Cover by KEVIN NOWLAN. and after comparisons from some (64-page COLOR magazine) $26 US of your favorite series of all time! (156-page trade paperback with $11 US color section) $22 US (100-page magazine) $9 US
BEST OF DRAW, VOL. 2 (JUNE)
GERRY CONWAY & ROY THOMAS on their ’80s “X-Men Movie That Never Was!” with art by ADAMS, COCKRUM, B USCEMA, B YRNE, KANE, KIRB Y, HECK, & LIEB ER, Atlas artist VIC CARRAB OTTA interview, ALLEN B ELLMAN on ’40s Timely, FCA, 1966 panel on EC Comics, & MR. MONSTER! Edited by ROY THOMAS.
“Toy Stories!” Marvel’s G. I. J OE™ and TRANSFORMERS, “Rough Stuff” MIKE ZECK pencil gallery, ARTHUR ADAMS on Gumby, HE-MAN, ROM, MICRONAUTS, SUPER POWERS, SUPER-HERO CARS, art by HAMA, SAL B USCEMA, GUICE, GOLDEN, KIRB Y, TRIMPE, & new ZECK sketch cover! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.
ALTER EGO COLLECTION, VOL. 1 (JUNE)
ALTER EGO #58 (MAY)
BACK ISSUE #16 (MAY)
COMING SOON FROM TWOMORROWS!
Contents
THE NEW
Kirby’s Time machine! OP ENI NG SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 UNDER THE COV ER S . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 (adding a new dimension to Kirby art) B EGI NNI NGS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 (spend some time on Jack’s block)
ISSUE #45, WINTER 2006
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I NNER V I EW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7 (Jack’s son Neal Kirby speaks) GA LLE RY 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20 (Kirbyvision: Past) M USEUM PA GE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28 (www.kirbymuseum.org) J A CK F.A .Q.s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .29 (Mark Evanier reveals some little known Kirby stories; or not...) I NCI DE NTA L I CONOGR A P HY . . . . . .35 (Tyranosaurus Kirby) KI R B Y OB SCUR A . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .36 (searching for sex in Jack’s work) GA LLE RY 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .38 (Kirbyvision: Future) DOI NG J USTI C E . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .46 (Denny O’Neil on Kirby’s Avenger) A CC OLA DES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .48 (Dr. Mark Miller diagnoses why he won a Jack Kirby Award) I N THE ZONE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .51 (Ray Zone interviews Kirby in 2-D) FOUNDATI ONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .56 (two complete 1950s S&K stories, restored by Chris Fama) KI R B Y A S A GENR E . . . . . . . . . . . . .62 (a varied batch from Adam McGovern) TR I B UTE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .64 (the 2005 Kirby Tribute Panel) B EFOR E & A FT ER . . . . . . . . . . . . . .71 (more classic pencils vs. inks) EX HI B I T I ONI SM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .76 (the MOCA Kirby exhibit in detail) COLLECT OR COM M ENTS . . . . . . . . .78 PA RTI NG SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 (Confucius say, “Check this out!”) Front cover inks: M I KE R OY ER (Kirby figure) SHA NE FOLEY (background) Front cover color: R A NDY “ SA R GE” SA R GENT Back cover inks: B I LL B LA C K Back cover 3-D conversion: R AY Z ONE COP Y RI GHT S: Boy Commandos, Challengers of the Unknown, Demon, Green Arrow, In The Days Of The Mob, Jimmy Olsen, Klarion, Losers, Manhattan Guardian, Mister Miracle, New Gods, OMAC, Sandman, Space Ranger, Supergirl, Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics • 3-D Man, Black Panther, Captain America, Devil Dinosaur, Dr. Doom, Eternals, Galactus, Hulk, Iron Man, Journey Into Mystery, Machine Man, Moonboy, Odin, Red Skull, Ringmaster, Sgt. Fury, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, Strange Tales, Thing, Thor, Warlock, Where Monsters Dwell TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc. • Black Magic, Bullseye, Captain 3D, Fighting American, Police Trap, Strange World Of Your Dreams, "The Thing On Sputnik 4", "This World Is Ours", Young Romance TM & ©2006 Joe Simon & Jack Kirby Estate • Captain Victory, Edna Dingle & Friends, Heck City, Heck Robot, King Masters, Reptar, Silver Star, Sky Masters, Solar Legion, Sunfire, Teenagent, Unfinished Warrior TM & ©2006 Jack Kirby Estate • Incredible Hulk TV images © Universal. • Fantastic 4 DVD © Fox. • Charlie Chan TM & © the respective owner. • The Avenger TM & ©2006 Condé Nast Publications, Inc. • 2001: A Space Odyssey TM & ©2006 Turner Ent. Co. • Animal Hospital TM & ©2006 Ruby-Spears • Battle For A Three Dimensional World ©2006 3D Cosmic Publications.
(right) The Losers are about to live up to their name, in these amazing splash page pencils from Our Fighting Forces #151 (Oct. 1974). Losers TM & ©2006 DC Comics. The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 13, No. 45, Winter 2006. Published quarterly by & ©2006 TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. 919-449-0344. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant. Single issues: $13 postpaid ($15 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $40.00 US, $64.00 Canada, $68.00 elsewhere. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is ©2006 Jack Kirby Estate unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is ©2006 the respective authors. First printing. PRINTED IN CANADA.
otherwise they would take you out, and I don’t mean on a date. Guys back in the city would punch your lights out just for kicks. I got to the point where I would have taken on anybody. We lived right near PS 20 which was a kind of a junior high school and elementary school. And the guys would fight there. It was another kind of world back then. But I didn’t like to fight. But I could. I did it very well. In this setting, this is something that is instinctive, really. If you go through an experience that is similar to this you know that you can’t back off. If you tell a guy you are going to do something for or against him, you do it. If you don’t then who is going to believe you the next time? Backing down was like telling a lie. You would never lie. I never lie. I was never devious like that. And, of course, sometimes you pay for that instinct. You pay for that in business, but you are also respected for it because you earn trust. I find that I earn my share of respect because I never lie. Living in this neighborhood you learn to only make promises that you can keep. I got into one gang fight in the street and I was knocked out; flat unconscious. My guys walked me up five flights of wooden steps and left me at the door of our apartment. They made sure that I looked as good as I could, they straightened out and buttoned my shirt and everything; cleaned me off so that, laying there by the door the next morning, the sight wouldn’t shock my mother when she opened the door. All that for my mother. We all respected everybody’s else’s mother. A mother was sacred. It didn’t matter who you were. If you had a mother, then you were okay. Even between gangs and cops; they all knew each other and the bond between them was their mothers. The other thing you wanted was to look good for your mother. I suspect that some of the guys in the crime syndicate were guys who wanted suits so they would look good for their mothers. Some of these guys would go into a clothing store and they would just take a suit. They’d break into the warehouses or the stores after they were closed and steal
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whatever they thought made them look sharp. You didn’t want to get in the way of a guy who was desperate to look good for his mother. Then they would stand on the street corner looking sharp as hell picking up all the girls. After that, the object of the whole thing was to get a good overcoat or a nice hat and be a devil with the girls. I was never a member of what you would call a real gang. I wasn’t that sociable. I was the kind of a guy who kept to myself, but I had friends and we ran around the neighborhood causing our own trouble; the kind of trouble that boys often do. I never stood on a street corner looking for trouble, but as far as friends go, we hung together for our own mutual protection. We looked out for each other and made sure that nobody got into trouble. If one of us got into a scrap with some other neighborhood, the rest of us would pile on; we’d have a real dogfight right there in the street, swinging fists, throwing things at each other. What a mess. The other guys knew that they had it coming if they ever messed with us. But between friends, you get these ideas and the ideas are really what can get you into trouble. You start to feel that you are invincible; like you really have power. As far as a kid is concerned, you’re just hanging together, what’s wrong with that? But as a group, you get into the pack mentality and you do things because you think that nobody can stop you. But there are rules. There wasn’t any object to be a gangster without rules. They are just guys like us. The cops were the guys who listened to their mothers. The gangs just didn’t. I mean they respected their mothers, but they couldn’t help themselves. They were weak. They wanted new suits. Sometimes their parents didn’t have the money for them or they couldn’t get a job at the time. They had to go out and get ’em someway. And they would get together in a gang and they would go through a whole store. And then some guy would be the leader of the gang and say, “Well, I thought of this damn thing. That makes me the leader. You guys listen to me. We’ll get more than that. We’ll get overcoats.” And of course, that’s how gangs were formed. I mean they weren’t cast in some movie, but that is where they came from. Later on, they got into the business of colliding with each other, but that’s another story. Some of my friends became gangsters, but a lot of them became cops. Most of them went on to live respectable lives. I remember Seymore Blau, we called him Tootie, Red Schaeffer, Maxy Goldburg, Georgie Comet, Buggy Bergson, Chubby Clee. And Leon Klinghoffer and his brother Albie. My best friend was Morris Cohen. Now Morris Cohen, he loved airplanes. He built the best model airplanes you ever saw. And I can tell you that they were faithful to the real thing. His models were perfect; faithful to the very nail.
And he made them all on his own because there were no kits. Spads, Sopwiths, all sorts of models. He did this with great passion. I didn’t have the patience or the inclination to build model airplanes. But this guy was a master at it. Soon he had a whole collection, in his apartment. He lived on another floor. I forget which one; I think he lived on a lower floor. I would go in, it was a magical experience for me because he built them so well. Later on he began to fly real airplanes. Once he took me up and we flew upside down over New York City! He scared the hell out of me, but that’s how I got the idea of drawing city scenes from a bird’s eye view. After the war, he took up a Marine flyer, and they were just going up at Floyd Bennet Field just to fly around, and they crashed; crashed on take off. Something went wrong; maybe a wheel crumbled or a wing tip may have touched the ground. Tootie became the Assistant Police Commissioner of the New York Police Department; one of the other guys went into show business. He was a comedian. Maxy developed a writing talent. He was very talented in that way, like all the guys he had a great talent for seeing past the event and looking at the people involved. So he got into writing and was an editor in Texas. Leon Klinghoffer was on the Achille Lauro when the terrorists took it over [Editor’s Note: October 7, 1985]. They were probably pushing passengers around. Leon was a guy that couldn’t take that; he wouldn’t stand for it. There are people like that in every war; somebody who will stand out and face the enemy with nothing but his bare hands and his wits. I knew Leon and I knew his brother Albie, and they were that kind of people. They wouldn’t flinch if a gun were held to their head. The Klinghoffer family had a dry goods store. I don’t know if they’ve still got it, but it has been years and years. We used to play in the gutter together, that’s how I knew him. We used to play stick ball and used to play in the street and all the guys on the same block used to play together, then we would go out and fight the guys from the next block. We would chase each other on the roof tops, swing in the clotheslines; we were always making some kind of racket. This was around Suffolk and Norfolk Streets. When we were through playing, Albie and Leon would go to work in the store. We grew older, I guess they took the store over. I didn’t see them or hear about Leon until I heard about this incident. You know, they didn’t kill him at first. They probably beat him up when he raised a fuss. I told Roz that I wasn’t surprised that he got killed. That is how the guys were; we were all from a crazy macho age—it produced many heroes like Leon. I’m sorry that he had to go out like that, but it was probably the way it should be. Leon was a brave man. NEXT: The Brotherhood (above) Leon Klinghoffer with wife Marilynn. (left) 1930s caricatures by Jack—we assume they’re of his tall brother David, father Benjamin, and mother Rose. All art this article ©2006 Jack Kirby Estate.
INNERVIEW
The Son Also Rises Jack’s son Neal Kirby interviewed Conducted and transcribed by John Morrow
(right) Jack mentions, on page 4 of this issue, how his father used to carry him around on his shoulders when he was little. Here, Jack returns the favor to two-year-old Neal in Fall 1950, during a touching moment on Jones Beach. Our thanks to Neal for sharing the photos shown throughout this interview.
(below) Undated drawing of Captain America, apparently from the early 1970s. Captain America TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc. All photos this interview ©2006 Jack Kirby Estate.
(Jack and Roz Kirby welcomed their only son Neal into the world in 1948 in Brooklyn, New York. The family moved to Long Island when Neal was only a year or two old, where he was raised among, eventually, three sisters and a host of relatives from the Lower East Side. He left home to attend college in New York in 1966, and followed the family to California after graduation. Now 57 years old—and father of Jack’s grandchildren Jeremy, Tracy and Jillian—Neal graciously sat down for this telephone interview, which was conducted on August 10, 2005, and was copyedited by Neal.) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Do you remember your parents telling you what it was like growing up on the Lower East Side of New York? NEAL KIRBY: My mother never talked much about her childhood at all. My father did, and explained a lot about his childhood; it was rough. When you listen to stories about his childhood, it’s like watching the old “Our Gang” comedies; a little bit rougher, of course, but the same kind of thing. TJKC: Once you moved to Long Island when you were around a year old, did your family stay in that same house until they moved to California in the 1960s? NEAL: They lived in one house until I was about three, and then they bought a second house about two blocks away, and that’s the house I was brought up in, in a town called East Williston. They were there from about 1950, ’51 until they moved around the end of 1968, beginning of 1969,
when they moved to California. TJKC: What do you do for a living now? NEAL: I’m a science teacher. I’ll be teaching a little math this year. I teach seventh grade. TJKC: Were you always interested in science? NEAL: Yeah. I tried going that direction when I entered college in 1966; I started out as a zoology major. But a number of things happened in college, and I wound up with a degree in Business from Syracuse University, back in New York. When I came out of college, I moved directly to California; I was married at the time to my first wife. I wound up in banking for twelve years, then financial data processing and marketing for about ten years. I never really liked it; I enjoyed banking somewhat, but I never really enjoyed the corporate life. After my divorce around 1989, ’90, I was living in Central California, and moved back to Southern 7
(above) Jack hard at work in the late 1940s. We adjusted the photo digitally to see what was on his board, but it appears he was just getting started, and the page was blank. (right) Cover art from Charlie Chan #3 (Oct. 1948), which, from the inscription, was either sold or given away in 1968. (next page, top, clockwise) Jack, Susan, and Neal in March 1949 • Jack and Roz take the kids to the playground in Fall 1950 • Summer 1954, with new addition Barbara • Spring 1952, with Neal at four years old. (next page, bottom) Perhaps the strip Neal remembers taking into New York was King Masters, shown in this inked example. Jack had Frank Giacoia ink the samples of this strip about a jazz trumpet player, but he was never able to sell the concept. Charlie Chan TM & ©2006 the respective owner. King Masters TM & ©2006 Jack Kirby Estate.
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California. I was pretty much flat broke, and I stayed with my parents for a couple of months, and got myself this little studio apartment next to the runway at LAX. I’d reached the point in my life where I literally hated waking up and going to work in the morning. I hated what I was doing, and I had started dating my current wife Connie. I’d also just gotten custody of my son Jeremy, who was going into sixth grade at the time. So Connie said, “What do you really want to do?” and I said, “I always wanted to be a science teacher.” So she said, “Why don’t you go back to school?” I was in my early forties by this point, but she said she’d watch Jeremy at night. So I went back to school two nights a week; substitute taught during the day and worked a part-time job the other two nights and weekends; and within two years I had two teaching credentials and a Master’s Degree in Education. I could not have done any of this without my wife, Connie. She was my support and inspiration. Now I consider myself so lucky; there’s so few people who really enjoy what they work at, and I just love going to school every morning. Where else can you get a room full of animals, and microscopes, and telescopes, and everything else you always wanted as a kid, and somebody else is paying for it, and letting you do it? It’s incredible.
NEAL: I was always geared more toward the Sciences. My artistic talent stopped at boats and planes; that was about it.
TJKC: As a child, did you inherit any artistic talent? Or were you geared more toward the Sciences and Math?
TJKC: Do you remember seeing him read the newspaper regularly? Did he focus on the headlines, sports, or comics?
TJKC: Did any of your sisters gravitate toward art? NEAL: My sister Barbara did. From a drawing standpoint, she has some nice artistic talent. I can write somewhat; my wife says I’m a good writer anyway, though Connie’s a much better writer than I. Tracy and Jeremy are both very bright and are also very good writers and very talented. My youngest daughter Jillian is in dance, and writes well, and draws well. She does everything; math and science. I think she probably picked up more of my father than anyone else. She’s my daughter from my second marriage; she’s ten years old. TJKC: Your dad read a lot of science-fiction work; was that a common bond, or was that not grounded enough in reality for you? NEAL: It was a common bond. I remember when I was a kid, he belonged to the Science-Fiction Book Club. Once a month, these hardcover books would come in the mail, and he’d read ’em in, like, twenty minutes or something. I’d read a lot of them, with the old authors like Vonnegutt and those guys. My father also loved history, and had a lot of history books around. TJKC: A lot of people have asked over the years, when did your dad have time to read? He was glued to the drawing board 16 hours a day, cranking out page after page. When did he sit down and actually read science-fiction books? NEAL: He did a lot more reading before things got really hot and heavy with Marvel. When that started, even I noticed a lot of his reading tapered off. Starting around 1960, ’61, when the FF hit, they kept piling on more work. He was working 14, 16, 18 hours a day. At that point he had very little reading time, up until around the early 1980s when he started slowing down.
NEAL: I rarely saw him read the newspaper; I guess he was one of the first people that depended on the TV for the news. When he was drawing, he always had the TV going. My parents were like most at the time. When [Walter] Cronkite came on, life stopped. I was the same way after I went off to college. He was always keenly aware of what was going on, but he wasn’t the type to sit there in the morning with his coffee and read the paper. TJKC: Did your dad read you bedtime stories when you were a kid, or did your mom do that kind of stuff? Who tucked you in at night? NEAL: We were all very close as a family as children, but I don’t remember being read to a lot as a young child. They didn’t really do that. They were the kind of parents that were always there for you, but at least in my case—I don’t want to speak for my sisters—I can’t recall them doing a lot of reading to me. A lot of my reading was solely on my own, because I enjoyed it. TJKC: How did you view your mom and dad’s relationship? Was it the typical Ozzie and Harriet kind of marriage? Or was your mom more liberated than a lot of women of the time? NEAL: They were very, very close. My father was also very protective of my mother. But for the times, I would say my mother was definitely more liberated. My father being my father, he was down there working, doing all this creative stuff. He couldn’t run the house; my mother handled a lot of the business transactions and the household finances. My father couldn’t screw in a lightbulb. Literally! [laughter] He’d try screwing it in, and it wouldn’t go, and he’d get frustrated and smash it with his hands. [laughter] So we even had to take that privilege away from him. But my mother was a strong woman; she ran the roost, and pretty much controlled everything that was going on in the house. My father had no mind for that stuff; he wouldn’t have been able to survive without her. TJKC: What’s the birth order of your siblings? NEAL: Oldest is my sister Susan; she was born in 1945. She still lives back in New York. I’m second. Then there’s my sister Barbara, who’s born in 1952. And the youngest is Lisa; she’s 13 years younger than I am. TJKC: What’s the earliest memory you have of being aware of what your dad did for a living? NEAL: It’s funny; him being a comic book artist, to me as a boy, was just what he did for a living. There was absolutely nothing special about it. Every two, three, four weeks, he’d go into New York City to bring his work in. I do have recollections back in the 1950s, about occasionally having to drive into Brooklyn for a strip he was working on; it wasn’t Sky Masters. It wasn’t Wally Wood; someone else was doing some inking, and we’d drive into Brooklyn and bring work there. But it just never seemed different to me. Back then, what people did for a living, their incomes, all that kind of stuff was a very private, family matter. You never asked what somebody’s father did for a living; that was considered incredibly bad
manners back then. I remember once or twice in elementary school I’d mention it, and the teacher would go, “Oh, can your father come in and draw some sketches for the class?” and he’d come to the school and draw some super-heroes up on the blackboard. Also, back then the comic book market was a fairly limited market; it’s not like today where you can mention a super-hero, and everybody knows what you’re talking about. There were no movie or TV shows; the original blackand-white Superman show might’ve been the only one. So even to my friends, the fact that my father was an artist didn’t mean that much. TJKC: Did you grow up reading comics, or were they not of any real interest to you? NEAL: I started reading them at the time when the Monster books started coming out, late 1950s, early ’60s. Then I got into it a little more, and started reading the older ones my father had in his studio: Black Magic, the old western books. I enjoyed the more “sciencey” ones obviously. I always enjoyed reading Thor because of the historical and mythological stories involved. If I wasn’t teaching science, I’d
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Gallery 1
KIRBYVISION : PAST
by Shane Foley
H
prehistory is on a collision course with the far future. Usually alien. Jack visited these scenarios often, such as here.
(pages 20-21) Dev il Di n os au r #4, p a g e 7 an d #5, p ag e 1 Are these pages from the past or the future? The further back in time one goes the more mysteries there are, so ‘Prehistory’ was a minefield of fun for Jack. (As long as he wasn’t asked to be ‘scientifically accurate’.) And as is the case so often in science-fiction work, that
(pages 22-23) Ou r Fig h t i n g For c es #151, p ag es 6 & 7 The pressure is immediately on for the Losers in these pages from Jack’s first issue. The top panel of page 6 is a masterpiece of design, beautifully composed and with the grouped enemy virtually faceless in their heavy uniforms. The trees and the foreground helmet stop the eye wandering off the right side of the panel, then assist it down to the Losers in the next panel.
All characters TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.
ere’s more proof, if any be needed by now, that Jack Kirby was equally at home dramatizing any era of the past or the future. All he needed was a premise with a bit of action or drama and he nailed it every time.
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All characters TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.
(pages 24-25) J u s t ic e I n c . #4, p ag es 10 & 16 Jack loved drawing the ’40s, so Kenneth Robeson’s Avenger, who enjoyed a surge in the popularity of his paperback books in the ’70s, was a natural for the King to draw. He even makes bi-plane action, as seen here on page 16, seem effortless to depict.
(pages 26-27) I n t h e Day s o f t h e Mo b #2, p ag es 11 & 40 No aliens or such far fetched ideas in this version of the past. It seems Jack wanted in the ’70s to revisit the crime and romance genres of a decade and more earlier, but in an even more adult way. They are hard-hitting in their look at relational violence and sexuality. Page 40 here graphically depicts both. One can only wonder what may have happened if the series had been promoted and sold. 21
www.kirbymuseum.org At the suggestion of member Tom Kraft (have you seen his http://whatifkirby.com website?), the Kirby Museum is starting an Original Art Digital Archive. Tom’s idea is for Kirby Museum volunteers to scan both sides of Kirby original art in color at high-resolution. This archive would not only provide amazing images for the Museum’s Kirby Catalogue Raisonné, but also help scholars and historians in their efforts. Visit the project’s web page at http://kirbymuseum.org/ oaarchive.html for more information.
Newsletter Catalogue Raisonné TJKC Edition Winter 2006 The Jack Kirby Museum and Research Center is organized exclusively for educational purposes; more specifically, to promote and encourage the study, understanding, preservation and appreciation of the work of Jack Kirby by: • illustrating the scope of Kirby’s multifaceted career, • communicating the stories, inspirations and influences of Jack Kirby, • celebrating the life of Jack Kirby and his creations, and • building understanding of comicbooks and comicbook creators. To this end, the Museum will sponsor and otherwise support study, teaching, conferences, discussion groups, exhibitions, displays, publications and cinematic, theatrical or multimedia productions.
Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center PO Box 5236 Hoboken, NJ 07030 USA Telephone: (201) 963-4383
Board of Trustees Randolph Hoppe rhoppe@kirbymuseum.org
Speaking of the online database, PHP/MySQL guru Greg Gatlin is hard at work on the “Admin” section of the program. So, even though there haven’t been any obvious improvements to the way the database works, rest assured, progress is being made!
Membership News The Museum welcomes these new members: Iikka Korhonen, Philip Miller, Dusty Miller, Tom Kraft, Mark Elstob, Melvin Shelton, Bob Heer, Tom Brevoort, Ralph Rivard, Tom Field, Ernest Shiner, Bob Shippee, Peter Houde, Drew Mayer, José Lopez, Greg Rowland, Kam Tang, Harry Mendryk, John Firehammer, Garrie Burr, Gary Picarello, Chris Klamer, David Schwartz, Anthony Foraro, Bruce Haley, Anthony Garcia, Elbert Coalwell, GAGNÉ International Press, Calvin Thacker, Ray Owens, Ray Wyman, Jr.. Questions about membership? New Address? E-mail us at: membership@kirbymuseum.org
Pencil Art Archive The Museum is now in possession of over 3500 scans of Jack’s pencil photocopies (made by the Kirbys before Jack’s pencils were inked), and is in the process of incorporating them into the Museum website. Plans call for rotating galleries from this Pencil Art Archive to be made available to the general public, offering a new, miscellaneous selection of pages every few months. Museum members will have access to the entire collection for viewing, which will number over 5000 pages when scanning is completed by TwoMorrows.
Join us! We accept PayPal! Any organization like ours can’t overemphasize how helpful annual support commitments can be to our efforts. So, in order to help us with the maintenance of annual membership dues, we’ve set up PayPal’s new subscription management service. Additionally, this special service of PayPal gives us a jump start on the management and production of usernames and passwords for the in-development members-only section of the website. However, because we don’t want those of you who opt for the upper-tier posters and/or need international shipping for their posters to pay more than $40 next year, we’ve had to customize PayPal to meet our needs. What we’re doing is charging the non-dues amount as an additional one day trial fee. This was the best solution that PayPal could currently provide for our needs—it works, but it does appear a bit odd if it’s unexpected. So don’t fret, if you’re having your poster shipped outside of the U.S. or want one of the “nicer” posters, that’s what is covered in the Amount Charged Today. Your $40 Annual Membership will be charged separately “tomorrow.” That said, if you’d rather not get involved in an ongoing annual PayPal charge—and we’ll repeat that we can’t overemphasize how helpful that kind of annual support can be to our efforts—you can simply use the Make A Donation button to send us a one-time amount of your choosing. Use the Note to Kirby Museum field that’s provided to let us know what poster you’d like. We’ll be happy to work out any login/password details afterwards. Checks and money orders can still be made out and mailed to Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center, Inc.. Please include your e-mail address, phone number and poster choice in your correspondence or on the memo line of your check. Our mailing address is below. We offer an Academic Membership at half-price, too—please contact us if you’re a student, teacher or scholar and would like to take advantage of that discount. http://kirbymuseum.org/membership.jkm
Annual Membership with one of these posters: $40*
Captain America — 23” x 29” 1941 Captain America — 14” x 23”
Strange Tales — 23” x 29” Super Powers — 17” x 22” color
Annual Membership with one of these posters: $50*
Lisa Kirby lkirby@kirbymuseum.org John Morrow twomorrow@aol.com
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Art Exhibit The Museum is in the planning stages of assembling a traveling exhibit of Kirby original art. If you have pieces you’d consider loaning for this show, please e-mail Rand Hoppe at rhoppe@kirbymuseum.org. Shipping and insurance will be provided by the Museum.
Marvel — 14” x 23”
Galactic Head — 18” x 20” color
Incan Visitation — 24” x 18” color
*Please add $10 for memberships outside the US, to cover additional postage costs. Posters come “as-is” and may not be in mint condition.
Losers TM & ©2006 DC Comics.
Original Art Archive!
Mark evanier
Jack F.A.Q.s
A column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby by Mark Evanier (below) Adam Starr of the 1930s “Solar Legion” strip does bear a slight resemblance to Space Ranger (shown here on the cover of his debut in Showcase #15), but how compelling is the evidence of a Kirby Konnection? Space Ranger TM & ©2006 DC Comics. Solar Legion TM & ©2006 Jack Kirby Estate.
ur first question this issue comes from Patrick Cooper, who seems to have spent much of the last six months typing out Kirby Kwestions to e-mail to me. Not that I’m complaining. Anyway, Patrick asks...
O
I read on the Internet a theory that Jack Kirby created the DC character Space Ranger and that when he had his fight with editor Jack Schiff, Schiff threw away the work Jack had done on the comic but not the idea. What can you tell me about this theory? Do you think there’s anything to it? Well, I’ll tell you what I know and you can decide whatever you want to decide. Not that you wouldn’t anyway. Let’s start by underscoring that I never heard Jack make any such claim, and that I know of no physical evidence or eyewitness testimony that he ever wrote or drew anything for the strip. I never even heard Jack say the words “Space Ranger” and wouldn’t assume he knew such a feature was ever published. The “case” for his possible involvement, such as it is, is wholly circumstantial and requires a few Hulk-sized leaps of deduction. As we all know, DC launched its Showcase comic in 1956 as a venue to test out new features that might graduate to ongoing books. “Challengers of the Unknown” appeared in issues #6, 7, 11 and 12 before it got its own title. The job of filling Showcase rotated between the various DC editors. About the time Challengers was spinning off, someone—apparently, editorial director Irwin Donenfeld— suggested they try some space heroes not unlike the popular newspaper strips Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers. A decision was made that editor Julius Schwartz would develop a strip set in the present-day while his fellow editor Jack Schiff had his freelancers whip up one set in the future. As a result, “Space Ranger” appeared in Showcase #15 and 16 and “Adam Strange” ran in #17-19. The latter was edited by Schwartz, written by Gardner Fox and drawn initially by Mike Sekowsky with covers by Gil Kane. “Space Ranger”, meanwhile, was under the editorial supervision of Schiff. The art was done by Bob Brown and the scripts for
the Showcase issues were reportedly by Edmond Hamilton. Some reports say that Gardner Fox was involved in developing the idea and plotting the first stories, and that Murphy Anderson had a hand in designing Space Ranger’s costume. Murphy says he had nothing to do with it, and I’m not sure whether to believe the part about Fox. So how does Kirby’s name even come up in any of this? Here’s how: Space Ranger was a man named Rick Starr, who worked for an interplanetary agency battling space villains. Mr. Starr was aided by an alien sidekick named Cryll. In his earliest days in comics, Kirby wrote and drew a science-
fiction strip called “Solar Legion.” It featured a man named Adam Starr, who worked for an interplanetary agency battling space villains. Mr. Starr was aided by an alien sidekick named Dalek. There were a few plot similarities in the first stories of the two strips, and some people see similarities in some of the designs, particularly the two characters’ helmets. But that’s pretty much the argument right there. Was it a coincidence or was there some connection? Those who think it couldn’t be mere happenstance point to the fact that Kirby was working for Jack Schiff at the time Space Ranger was born. Our Jack even drew a non-series story that appeared in the back of Showcase #15, right after the first “Space Ranger” tale. (I wouldn’t take that as proof, by the way, that Kirby was aware of the character. He rarely looked at printed comics unless there was some specific reason, like he was being asked to critique the material or do the following issue. Sometimes, if he took over a book from someone else, he did so without even reading the issue before.) Advocates of the “Kirby created Space Ranger” conjecture even have an explanation as to why Adam Starr changed his first name: Because down the hall, Julie Schwartz was already working on Adam Strange, and you wouldn’t want both your new space heroes to be named Adam now, would you? One theorist who wrote me speculated, “As we all know, Kirby had a falling-out with Schiff over their deal on the Sky Masters newspaper strip and was barred from working for DC. It would make sense that because of that, Schiff threw out whatever Kirby had done on ‘Space Ranger’ and reassigned the project.” Yes, that might make sense... but only if the time frame was different. At the moment the first “Space Ranger” stories made print, Kirby was still on good terms with Schiff. 29
Accolades (below) Mark’s first page of Kirby original art, from Jimmy Olsen #135 (Jan. 1971). (next page, center) Mark’s original Merry Marvel Marching Society membership card. (next page, bottom) On his first visit, Mark rummages through the piles of art Jack finally got back from Marvel Comics.
(above) Mark once asked Jack if the “Martin Bursten” credited story in Timely’s Red Raven #1 was in fact a tongue-incheek pseudonym used by Jack. He said, “Yes, it was” and smiled when Mark asked him for the autograph you see here.
The Doctor Is Into Kirby Kirby Award winner Dr. Mark Miller interviewed by John Morrow [Editor’s Note: Dr. Mark Miller, M.D., is a longtime friend of the Kirby family, and of this magazine’s editor. Born in 1954, he grew up in Texas, but moved to Portland, Oregon after medical school, where after years in private practice, he now spends a good deal of his time teaching medicine. Early-on, just after TJKC was launched, I received my first correspondence from Mark, who had organized a letter-writing campaign to persuade Marvel Comics to give Jack Kirby a co-creator credit on comics featuring his characters. When you read this interview—conducted on February 3, 2006— you’ll learn a few other reasons why Mark received a Jack Kirby Award at the 2004 ComicCon International: San Diego.] THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Did you grow up reading Kirby’s comics? MARK MILLER: Yes, I quite literally grew up with Jack’s stories and art. I can honestly say that reading those comics while I was in elementary school helped to fuel my passion for science, literature and art. I still have most of the comics that I read as a child, from my very first purchases—Fantastic Four #5 and the Incredible Hulk #2—right up to end of Jack’s run at DC and his last Marvel books. I’d buy all of the Marvels that I could find first and then pick out the other comics with the most interesting covers from DC and the smaller publishers. It was obvious to me then that the Marvel titles were much more interesting then the competition. And it was also obvious that Jack’s storytelling style, his unique take on anatomy and movement and his amazing perspectives made for the best stories of all. Of course I can’t say that I ever analyzed any of that back then. The comics with Jack’s work in them were just the most fun! My brother Keith, who is three years younger then I, quite literally learned to read with those early comic books. TJKC: Did you have any fellow comic collecting friends back then? MARK: I think that I knew two other comic book fans before 1966, when I attended the initial meeting of the Houston Comic Collectors Association and I discovered local fandom for the first time. Here were 20 or so collectors, some of whom were my parent’s age. And everyone there knew about Jack Kirby! TJKC: What do you recall about comic collecting back then? MARK: Well, back in 1966 my father had given me the Jules Feiffer book on comic book superheroes which was my first glimpse of a Captain America and a Human Torch and a SubMariner that existed before the ones that I was familiar with. At
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these monthly meetings of the HCCA there might be examples of early Timely and DC comics as well as Marvel comics that I wanted in order to fill the gaps in my collection. All of the books that I would like to have owned exceeded my allowance by a great deal. Things haven’t changed that much since then. In 1967, the club put on the first HoustonCon and I believe that it was one of the very first comic conventions ever held. My brother and I got there when the doors opened and stayed until they swept us out. Until I left for college, I attended most of the conventions that were held each year in Houston and Dallas and Oklahoma City. It was a bit of a circuit and it was a lot of fun to go to those conventions and see so many familiar faces. That was well before the first Overstreet Price Guide came out and collecting had a great deal of innocence about it. I still have the first Overstreet Guide that I bought from Bob when he was selling them out of a cardboard box. Everything really changed on the heels of that guide. TJKC: Did you ever see Jack at any of these conventions? MARK: No, it was often rumored that the “King” was going to be the surprise guest but that never happened. TJKC: Was there much original comic art at those early cons? MARK: I don’t recall that being a big item until the very late ’80s or early ’90s. Of course there were pages of original art both from comics and comic strips at the earlier conventions but the appreciation of comic book art was nothing like it is today. I saw my first piece of original art done by Jack at a convention in 1972 and I swiftly traded for it. I still have that page up on the wall; a photo-montage page from Jimmy Olsen that has Superman explaining the importance of the Project unlocking the secrets of DNA. I have a room in which Jack’s artwork lines the walls and I keep some of my other collectibles. TJKC: What’s your favorite piece of artwork in your collection? MARK: Well, I’d have to say that it may be Jack’s personal collection of Captain America #1-10 that is in a bound volume in which Jack drew 4 pieces of art on the two frontis pages and two end pages. TJKC: Did you purchase that volume directly from Jack and Roz? MARK: No, I saw this book at either my first or second visit to the house, and at first I felt that it might sound unkind of me to even ask if it was for sale. I believe that Mike Thibodeaux let me know that it would be all right to bring up the subject. As it turned out they were flattered that I would ask, but said that they would prefer to keep it. Roz did say that she would call me if they were ever going to sell any of the bound volumes that they had in their bookcase. Some years later, perhaps a year or two after Jack passed away, I received a catalogue for a Sotheby’s Comic Book and Comic Art Auction and there was the book. Shortly thereafter, Roz called me because she had recalled our earlier conversation.
TJKC: Did you buy many pages from Jack and Roz? MARK: No, most of the art that I own was purchased or traded for at conventions or purchased at auction. For all of the times that I visited Jack and Roz, I believe that I bought only two pages from them at home. TJKC: Tell me about your first visit to the Kirby home, and how it came about. MARK: It was 1986 and I had not been active in comic fandom since about the time that I finished college some 10 years earlier. I had stored away all of my comics and fanzines in 2 or 3 old footlockers for safe-keeping and carted them with me whenever I moved. After all that time, I opened up one of my footlockers and there were the last comics that I had purchased back in college. As I went deeper into the stacks, the comics got older and older until I was back to my very first comic books. I can clearly remember the joy of rediscovering those old comics. I also clearly recall thinking that I have to find Jack Kirby and meet him in order to tell him how important he was to me. So, that evening I called a friend of a friend, Bruce Zick. Bruce and I have since become good friends and I know that he has contributed some of Jack’s work to the Kirby Collector. Bruce and I had heard of one another for years because our mutual friend kept telling us, “You guys’ve gotta meet—you’re two comic book nerds,” and I think that we had only met once before I made that phone call to him. At the time that I called, Bruce was living in California and busy doing animation work for Disney. I had heard that he once worked at Ruby-Spears so I immediately asked him if he knew how I could meet Jack. Bruce said that he didn’t have any direct connection to Jack but that he would make a few calls. I don’t know the details, but somehow Bruce got ahold of Mike Thibodeaux’s number and Mike arranged for a meeting with Jack. TJKC: So you didn’t know Mike before then? MARK: No, the first time we met was at his apartment before we all drove to Thousand Oaks. Now, totally unbeknownst to Bruce or me, Jack had just recently settled with Marvel for the return of his artwork. As word got out, collectors and more than a few dealers wanted to descend on Jack and Roz in order to purchase art. Mike was acting as a buffer for them and he assumed that Bruce and I were two other folks looking to buy some artwork. I’d say that we were about halfway to Thousand Oaks, talking comic books all the way, discussing favorite plot lines and favorite comic panels, when Mike said something like, “You guys really love this stuff like I do.” We couldn’t agree more and when Mike asked what sort of artwork we were looking to buy, Bruce and I just said, “What artwork?” I think it’s fair to
say that Mike was overjoyed when he realized that three hours like that when Roz came in and we were two fans who just wanted to meet Jack with announced that we had to come back to the kitchen. absolutely no other agenda. That drive was a great way It was all far more then I could ever have asked for. to start my friendship with both Mike and Bruce. I was fortunate enough to come back to Sapra Driving into Thousand Oaks and going up Sapra Street several more times after that and every time Street, I kept rehearsing what I might say when I was special, but that first time was pure magic. knocked on Jack’s door. Any lines that I might have TJKC: Did you get to know any of the other family planned were lost when we pulled into the driveway. members? Instead of waiting for us to come to the door, out MARK: Yes, I’ve met all of the kids and the grandkids marched Jack and he came right up, and several of Lisa’s cousins. I shook my hand, and thanked me can’t recall the first time that I for coming to see him. I have no met Lisa but I think the world clue what I said in return. Mike of her. We see one another far let Jack know that we had come less frequently then I’d like up for the sole purpose of meetbut every now and then, one ing and thanking him and once of us will call the other in MARK MILLER again Jack said something like, order to get caught up. When “No, I want to thank you.” Finally, I hear her voice I’m reminded Roz stuck her head out of the of all the good times that I door and said, “Kirby, let them had with her mom and dad. come into the house!” Roz ushered us in and asked Aunt Anita is Rosalind’s sister and I mean it when I us if we were hungry and what we wanted to drink. say that I love her. She is so funny and quick and I just wanted to keep shaking Jack’s hand and give she represents a link to a past that is beyond value. him a hug and there we were at the refrigerator with Roz calling out some sandwich choices! I was feeling TJKC: You were at Jack and Roz’s 50th wedding pretty dazed by the sincere hospitality and kindness anniversary as well? that never changed in all of my subsequent visits. MARK: You bet. It was really a treat to get to meet Jack gave us a tour of the house, and wall after many of the family members and friends. I listened wall was covered with these to many stories about “Uncle Jack.” It was obvious beautiful pages of his artwork. that everyone there really loved Jack and Roz. It was We ended up in Jack’s studio something that you could feel in the room. The way area where Jack kept his drawthat Jack and Roz treated fans and friends, I’d think ing table. About two-thirds of that it’s fair to say that they had quite a few non-kin the floor was covered with family members there. literally thousands of pages TJKC: As an M.D., were you of some help to Jack of original art. We had to and Roz with their own medical conditions? Did take off our shoes because they come to you for medical advice? from one wall to another MARK: Both Jack and Rosalind seemed to go out of there were pages of original art spilling out from their way not to call me about their health issues oversized envelopes. To say that it was overwhelming even when I asked them to. They consistently said would be an understatement. that they did not want to take advantage of me. I Jack and Roz let us wander around for a while still made a point of asking about their health every and then we all seemed to come together and Roz time we spoke and I think that my biggest role was said something like, “Watch out for Kirby and those stories of his.” As Jack sat down, I was as spellbound as a kid with his first comic books. Jack answered some questions that I had and then he proceeded to tell us stories. Roz came in and out of the room with snacks, asking us if we wanted Jack to stop. That was the last thing that I wanted. He talked about his boyhood days and the streets of New York, about his Grandmother’s storytelling abilities and his time in the Second World War. He talked about different characters in myths that he loved and about how comic books could tell great mythic stories in a way that was relevant for kids and adults in today’s world. He talked about how “bad guys” could be created by small acts that had happened to them and how “heroes” had frailties and weaknesses that they may try to ignore at their own peril. I should mention that he kept stopping to ask about us and our lives and I kept trying to get him back on track about telling us more of his stories. I think that we must have spent more than 49
Thor, Captain America TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.
She felt badly and I told her there was no way that I could have asked her to keep that book for me. As it turned out, I was the only one who bid on the book, or perhaps there was one other bidder. Mike Thibodeaux called me soon after the auction because Roz wanted to see if I had gotten the book after all. That’s another example of how amazing Roz was. As it turned out, I paid less at auction then I had planned to offer Roz and I told her that I would be happy to pay her the difference. She refused to accept a check, so I asked her if she would split the difference, and she made it clear that the subject was closed.
Tribute
2005 Kirby Tribute Panel Held July 19, 2005 at Comicon International: San Diego, featuring (shown below, left to right) Steve Sherman, Robert Katz, Scott Shaw!, and Mark Evanier (moderator) Transcribed by Steven Tice Photos by Chris Ng
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MARK EVANIER: I’m Mark Evanier. I’m moderating the Jack Kirby tribute panel. What are the odds? [laughter] In the last few years, this panel has generally taken on the shape of bringing up artists and writers over the years who were influenced by Jack to discuss the influence Jack had on their careers, both directly, in terms of giving advice and counseling and mentoring, or indirectly, because of the ways his work inspired them. This is a very important aspect of Jack Kirby, and one which you should not forget. It dawned on me that maybe this year we could talk a little more about Jack the person, directly. So we’ve assembled a panel here of people who knew Jack and worked with him more closely and had a closer personal relationship with him. And I want to talk about a couple of aspects of Kirby and what’s going on in the world of Kirby today, also. Let me introduce the people here now. Paul Levine said he was going to get here a little late and that he was having trouble finding a parking space, so he’s probably downstairs suing someone. [laughter] But Paul’s an attorney who represented Jack, and a little later we’re going to tell, again—some of you have seen it, some of you haven’t—the story of Jack’s encounter with Johnny Carson, and I’ll show you the video of that again. Paul represented Jack during the only lawsuit, as far as I know, Jack ever filed in his life. And now that Johnny Carson’s gone, Paul can talk more freely about the incident, so we’ll probably close with that. On my left is a gentleman who I’ve known since 1967 or ’68. He was a member of our old comic book club, as you’ve probably heard ad nauseum about, many times, and later we worked for a company called Marvelmania, which he briefly alludes to in the new Jack Kirby Collector, and doesn’t even begin to tell you the sleaziness and outrageous, shallow ripoffs and machinations of one of the great fraudulent mail-order firms of this world. And he worked with Jack for a number of years, and has been a close friend of the Kirby family all that time. This is Mr. Steve Sherman, ladies and gentlemen. [applause] Steve is now a puppeteer and puppet maker; I think he probably learned something around the comic book business that led to that conclusion. [laughter] Sitting next to Steve is a gentleman I’ve known for almost as long. I actually met him at Jack’s house—was it 1970, Scott? SCOTT SHAW!: 1969. EVANIER: ’69 or ’70. At that time he was a beginning cartoonist, showing Jack stuff he’d done for his college newspaper and some underground comics. He’s since turned into one of the top animation artists and illustrators and producers of our business. Mr. Scott Shaw!, ladies and gentlemen. [applause] There are those of us who felt real close to Jack, and sometimes referred to him as “Uncle Jack”; let’s hear from a man who had the right to actually call him Uncle Jack. This is Jack’s nephew, Mr. Robert Katz, ladies and gentlemen. [applause] And a man who incidentally did extraordinary things watching out for the Kirbys’ affairs in their later years, after Jack and after Roz passed away, and keeping track of a very volatile, perhaps, is the right word— we’ll talk a little bit more about the legal problems that have plagued those of us who love Kirby over the years. And then I’d like to introduce a few people in the audience. I believe Lisa Kirby was here a minute ago. There’s Lisa Kirby. [applause] And I believe sitting next to Lisa is Tracy Kirby. [applause] Let me introduce you to the editor of the Jack Kirby Collector, Mr. John Morrow. [applause] Let’s briefly run down some of the pending Kirby-related projects that are coming up in the world. As you may know, DC is going to announce the Kamandi Archives, coming out shortly. I will not be writing the foreword to any more of the Archives at DC due to a dispute I had with them over the Challengers Archives, but I’m sure they’ll put together a very fine job on this. I suspect that they are just itching to do just about everything Jack did for DC. Marvel is coming out with a deluxe, huge, overpriced, reproduction of Fantastic Four #1, for which I wrote a commentary; I wouldn’t spend the money for it based on that if I were you. And I don’t know much more about it than that. The Fantastic 4 movie will be coming out on DVD very shortly, and some of us were interviewed for it. I was. Anybody else? Steve was interviewed. There’s a documentary about Jack that’s supposed to be—based on the number of people they talked with, it should be interesting. Neal was interviewed for it? Neal’s supposed to be here. What else is coming out of Jack’s? Anybody else know anything else?
STEVE SHERMAN: Bedsheets. EVANIER: Bedsheets? Yeah, Kirby bedsheets. [general chuckling] I have just about, I think, finished what I consider the first draft of the Kirby biography I’m working on. It is so long that, when you see it you’ll understand. I’m going to open up a beta test conference on the Internet in about a month or two where I’m going to ask for volunteers to read chapters of it and comment on it, but particularly to help me with some of the final bits of research. I had to track down some obscure little things, quotes and—I’ve got a place where there are certain panels I’ve got to find and I can’t find them, so I’m going to ask other people to search the Web for them. Soon I’ll be asking for volunteers to help me with the final bits of research, and I’m hoping to announce a publication date by this panel next year. It’s very long, and I may have to publish it in two editions: the edition that normal people will read, and an edition that people like us will want to read [some chuckling], where it spends twenty pages explaining a certain layout on one page of one issue of Tales to Astonish. Why don’t we talk about Jack a little bit. I met Jack on the 17th of July, 1969, and I loved the guy. I loved Jack before I met him, through the comics. I loved the Jack I met, because he was just so giving and so loving. Every year I feel like on these panels, fewer and fewer people here had the chance to meet Jack in person. I don’t know how many people here had the opportunity, but if you didn’t have the opportunity to meet Jack, one of the things you should know about him is that when he met someone, he always tried to give them something. I don’t mean a sketch. Sometimes he would try to force old copies of Playboy on us. [some laughter] But he used to meet people and think to himself, “What can I give to this person that is inspirational?” or, “What can I give this person so they’ll go away enthused to do better work, or excited?”. Usually it was a philosophical concept, and the people who came just hoping to get a sketch of the Thing were very disappointed, they didn’t understand that that’s not what Jack really had to offer that was wonderful. I got a lot of inspiration from Jack, I got a lot of joy and wisdom, and I’m still trying to parse and apply some of it in a useful manner in my life. And I’ve
(previous page, top) Jack and Roz at home in November 1989.
(Previous page, bottom) A 1960s illo of Fighting American.
(left) A 1983 Silver Surfer commissioned piece. Fighting American TM & ©2006 Joe Simon & Jack Kirby Estate. Silver Surfer TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.
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